►
From YouTube: 1-27-21 Zoning Board of Adjustment
Description
Des Moines Zoning Board of Adjustment meeting via teleconference on Wednesday, January 27, 2021.
View the agenda: https://DSM.city/ZBOAatHome
A
B
All
right
well
good
afternoon,
everybody
we'll
go
ahead
and
call
this
hearing
to
order.
Welcome
to
the
monthly
meeting
of
the
city
of
des
moines
zoning
board
of
adjustment,
my
name
is
mel
pins.
The
board
chair.
I
want
to
welcome
everybody
here
this
afternoon.
I'm
only
going
to
have
my
camera
on
just
for
this
limited
introduction
here.
So
I
can
welcome
everyone
and
give
you
the
background
on
the
proceedings
for
this
hearing.
B
Then
I'm
going
to
turn
my
camera
off,
so
we
can
save
on
bandwidth
so
that
we
can
ensure
everybody
gets
a
quick
connectivity
as
much
as
possible.
Here
this
board
has
power
under
iowa
law
and
the
zoning
ordinance
of
the
city
of
des
moines
to
hear
and
make
decisions
on
requests
for
variances
and
exceptions
from
the
regulations
in
the
zoning
ordinance
conditional
use,
permit
requests,
as
well
as
appeals
from
any
decision
of
the
city
staff
in
the
administration
of
the
zoning
ordinance.
B
B
I'm
going
to
go
ahead
and
introduce
our
board
members
today.
I
believe
we
have
six
of
our
seven
members
present
today.
Is
that
correct,
bert.
A
That
is
correct.
Nathan
blake
was
unable
to
join
us
this
afternoon.
B
Okay,
so
our
members
present
today
are
cindy
smith,
marlis
jones,
lynn,
carlson,
dave,
gere,
justin
gross
and
again
I'm
mel
pins.
The
board
chair
I'll,
also
introduce
or
refer
to
our
city
staff,
who
may
be
assisting
us
today.
They
include
the
board
of
adjustments.
Legal
council,
which
is
judy
parks,
cruz,
representing
city
staff,
are
bert,
drost,
city,
planner,
eric
lundy
city,
planner,
jason
van
essence,
city
planner,
katherine
drajas,
city,
planner,
suanne,
donovan,
zoning
enforcement
officer,
michael
ludwig
planning,
administrator
and
tyler
hall.
B
B
B
The
board
members
have
each
received
a
copy
of
the
agenda
and
the
staff
recommendations.
The
board
is
required
to
base
its
decision
on
each
item
based
upon
the
criteria
established
by
law.
The
type
of
relief
sought
by
the
applicant,
the
law
applicable
to
each
case
is
identified
in
the
written
staff
report.
B
B
They
will
be
considered
for
approval
in
accordance
with
the
recommendations
in
the
staff
report,
unless
the
appellant
does
not
agree
to
the
conditions
recommended
by
staff
or,
if
there's
an
individual
or
a
board
member
that
requests
the
item
be
removed
from
the
consent
agenda,
so
that
a
full
discussion
on
the
matter
can
occur,
and
I
will
come
back
to
this
as
we
review
the
consent
agenda.
So
if
there's
anybody
that
wants
us
to
consider
any
item
on
the
consent
agenda
for
direct
testimony,
we
can
do
that
on
the
agenda.
B
We
will
then
move
to
the
public
comment
portion
of
the
hearing.
Anyone
wanting
to
speak
in
support
of
in
opposition
to
or
even
in
neutrality
related
to
an
appeal
will
be
allowed
up
to
five
minutes
each
to
provide
their
comments.
This
will
be
their
one
and
only
opportunity
to
address
the
board
on
that
item.
B
B
B
B
B
The
decisions
of
this
board
can
only
be
appealed
in
the
iowa
district
court
if
you
believe
you've
been
harmed
by
an
error
made
by
this
board.
Your
only
remedy
is
to
seek
relief
through
the
court
within
30
days
of
the
filing
of
the
board's
decision
and
order,
if
you
believe
the
zoning
regulations
applied
by
this
board
are
wrong.
You
may
petition
the
city
council
to
change
those
regulations
for
future
consideration.
B
B
So
that's
the
background
on
how
we'll
conduct
the
hearing
process
today
and
again,
we'll
work,
all
the
applicants
and
anybody
that
wishes
to
respond
to
the
applicant
through
each
step
of
it.
So
the
first
thing
we'll
do
here
is
I'm
going
to
turn
it
back
over
to
bert
and
verb.
Do
we
have
any
changes
to
the
agenda,
as
has
been
presented.
A
Yes,
mr
chair
members
of
the
board,
ber
drost
planner
for
the
city
of
des
moines.
I
do
have
two
changes
to
propose
or
to
mention
today.
The
first
is
that
item
number
seven,
which
is
in
two
appeals
at
4347,
merle
hay
road.
We
do
have
to
discuss
those
today,
we've
gotten
some
objections
from
the
merle
hay
neighborhood
association.
A
So
we
will
be
holding
the
full
discussion
on
item
number
seven
and
then
the
other
change
is
that
item
number
nine,
which
was
an
appeal
at
2535,
hubble
avenue
that
was
withdrawn
by
the
applicant,
so
that
public
hearing
will
not
be
held
today.
So
if
you're
here
for
item
nine
you're
welcome
to
sign
off
and
again
that
was
the
appeals
for
the
u-haul
business
at
2535,
hubble
avenue.
B
A
B
All
right,
so
item
nine
has
been
removed
from
the
discussion
portion
of
the
hearing
item.
Seven,
which
was
on
consent,
is
being
moved
to
the
discussion
portion
of
the
hearing,
so
that
would
leave
items
one
through
six
on
the
consent
portion
of
the
hearing,
meaning
that
staff
is
recommending
approval
of
the
requested
conditional
use
permits
or
the
amendments
to
the
conditions
of
those
permits
that
are
listed
in
items
one
through
six.
B
One
is
a
conditional
use
approval
request
at
6208
douglas
avenue
item
two
is
a
conditional
use
approval
in
the
premises
of
1900
scott
street
chem
and
holdings
item
number
three
is
an
amendment
to
a
conditional
use
approval
for
fairway
stores
at
2716,
beaver
avenue
item
four:
is
the
conditional
use
of
approval
for
the
city
of
des
moines
state
of
iowa
near
2100,
sailor
road
item?
5
is
a
conditional
use
approval
also
for
city
of
des
moines
and
state
of
iowa
in
the
vicinity
of
1501,
harriet
street
and
item
six?
B
Is
a
conditional
use
approval
request
near
1301
prospect
road,
also
city
of
des
moines
and
state
of
iowa?
So
is
there
anybody
in
the
audience
who
would
object
to
us
granting
approval
for
any
of
the
items
that's
listed
on
one
through
six?
If
so,
hit
the
raise
hand
function
in
zoom
or
hit
star
9
on
your
phone,
and
we
will
look
to
recognize
you.
B
C
Presented
mr
chair,
this
is
justin
gross.
I
make
a
motion
to
approve
one
through
six.
B
All
right,
so
we've
got
a
motion
by
justin,
a
second
by
marliss
to
approve
items
one
through
six,
we'll
have
tyler
help
us
take
roll
call,
yay
or
nay
on
approving
the
consent
agenda.
D
D
B
B
Okay,
so
if
you're
here
for
items
one
through
six,
those
items
have
been
approved
and,
as
I
noted
in
the
preamble,
give
us
about
a
week
and
staff
will
get
you
a
copy
of
that
finalized
decision
and
order
which
has
the
approvals
as
well
as
the
conditions
you'll
need
to
comply
with.
So
congratulations
to
those
folks
with
their
projects,
so
you're
here
for
items
one
through
six,
we're
done
with
those
for
the
day.
B
All
right
since
item
seven
was
removed
from
the
consent
portion
of
the
hearing.
That
will
be
the
first
item
we
will
take
up
for
business.
We'll
have
staff.
First,
give
a
brief
explanation
of
the
request
for
appeal.
F
Members
of
the
board
jason
van
essen,
with
the
city's
planning
staff,
are
you
able
to
see
my
screen
now
mel.
F
Yes,
okay,
thank
you,
bert
item.
Seven
is
a
request.
It's
a
sign.
Exception
request
for
a
type
two
zone
exception.
The
relief
would
be
for
sign
area
and
then
also
exceeding
sign
area
on
a
non-frontage
wall
and
I'll
kind
of
talk
about
that
a
little
bit
further,
as
I
get
into
the
presentation
here,.
F
This
is
the
subject
property
on
the
east
side
of
middle
hay.
Road.
You
can
see
it's
a
fairly
large
site
with
several
buildings.
Multi,
multiple
tenants,
the
the
building
and
tenant
space
that
we're
discussing
this
afternoon
is
right
here
at
the
edge
of
this
northwestern
most
building
faces
both
south
towards
the
parking
lot
and
also
west
towards
merrill
hay
road
at
the
rural
hay
frontage
road,
some
photographs
of
the
property.
This
is
from
merle
hay
road.
F
Looking
back
towards
the
site
towards
the
east,
a
building
sign
area
that
would
face
merle
hay
would
be
in
this
area
working
our
way,
a
little
closer
site,
starting
to
see
the
south
side
of
the
building.
This
is
the
south
face
of
the
building
towards
the
parking
lot
with
the
second
location.
F
F
They
did
provide
some
work
right
up.
We
can
come
back
to
this
if
we
need
to
want
to
go
ahead
and
jump
to
the
staff
report
applicant
receive
this,
provided
it
to
the
neighborhood
association.
The
board
members
receive
it
as
well
provides
criteria,
references,
the
relevant
code
sections
just
quickly
want
to.
Let's,
let's
see,
I
think
it's
actually
on
the
next
page.
I
apologize.
F
So
that's
more
in
the
50
to
51
square
foot,
52
square
foot
kind
of
range,
so
those
are
kind
of
the
differences
or
that
we're
talking
about
in
sign
area
in
the
staff
rationale,
as
I
alluded
to
when
I
started
my
presentation,
we
pointed
to
the
size
of
the
property
on
the
setback,
the
sign
area
in
relationship
to
the
character
or
scale
the
buildings.
The
scale
of
the
development
seemed
appropriate
to
us.
We
didn't
see
that
there
would
be
any
significant
adverse
impact
on
the
essential
character
of
the
area.
F
Response
map
didn't
have
any
responses
back
from
a
property
owner
within
the
notice
area
that
we
recognized.
We
did
get
this
one
card,
but
the
address
wasn't
for
the
notice
area,
I'm
not
sure
what
property
they
might
represent.
F
Then
we
also
have
a
string
of
kind
of
email,
communication
I'll,
go
ahead
and
focus
and
let
you
look
I'll
zoom
in
a
little
bit.
Let
you
read
this
first
page
really
summarizes
everything
else
and
the
rest
of
the
email
correspondence
with
the
board
of
the
merle
hay
neighborhood
association.
They
are
opposed
to
the
request
and
requests
that
be
pulled
so
I'll.
Give
you
a
second
there
to
read.
F
G
I
have
a
question
in
your.
This
is
lynn
carlson.
In
the
comments
on
on
our
packet.
It
says
that
it's
an
auto
dominant
area
and
that
mall
behind
it
does
that
mall
have
retail
or
is
that
all
auto
stuff
behind
that.
F
It
has
a
mixture
of
uses
and
what
I
meant
by
auto
dominant
is
that
it's
comprised
you
know.
There's
you
have
a
large
roadway
that
carries
a
fair
amount
of
traffic.
You
have
a
frontage
road
in
front
of
that.
You
have
large
parking
lots
with
the
buildings
set
back
versus
the
buildings.
G
H
Well,
no,
I
I
go
to
the
gym
there
every
day,
so
I
I
think
I
remember
seeing
some
kind
of
a
sign.
Maybe
I'm
crazy.
I
might
have
to
look
when
I
go
tonight
and
let
everybody
know,
but
I
believe
there
was
a
pull
sign
there,
because
I
believe
that
and
I'm
not
sure
if
there's
pictures
or
not-
but
I
know,
I
believe
that
crossfit
merle
hay
has
a
presence
on
the
their
building.
As
you
can
see,
and
there's
also
yeah,
you
see
that
pull
sign
there,
yeah
it's
also
on
there.
F
Sure
let
me
look
into
that
and
see
if
we
can
get
an
answer
for
you.
F
H
Sure
I
don't,
I
don't
mean
to
throw
any
wrenches
in
here,
I'm
just
kind
of
curious.
You
know
if
they
could
have
a
presence
on
that
sign.
Also.
Would
that
help
their
intent
for
what
they're
trying
to
do?
I
entert
I
understand
trying
to
advertise
your
business.
Obviously,
of
course,.
A
This
is
bert
planet
for
the
city.
They
would
be
allowed
to
put
a
sign
face
on
an
existing
freestanding
pole.
Sign
they
couldn't
make
the
pole
sign
any
larger
than
it
is
or
modif
make
any
modifications
to
it.
But
if
there
is
a
directory
sign
or
if
there
is
space
on
this
pulse
line
here,
where
they
could
add
a
sign,
they
would
be
allowed
to.
I've
just
mentioned
that
any
new
freestanding
sign
would
have
to
be
a
monument
style
sign
with
the
masonry.
H
Right
so
so
just
this
is
cindy
gembert,
so
just
to
add
to
that,
if,
if
they
were
allowed
to,
you
know,
put
their
name
pets,
pet
shop
supplies
right
below
where
it
says:
merle,
hey,
crossfit
or
whatever
the
decision
is
made.
Would
that
would
that
then
be
part
of
their
sign
allowance,
or
is
that
different.
H
H
F
I
F
Oh
sorry,
I
went
the
wrong
direction.
Let
me
just
give
me
a
second
here.
J
F
So
it's
the
exact
same
sign
on
both
sides.
B
B
And
jason,
from
a
perspective
of
visibility
of
the
business
from
the
south,
one
might
assume
that
well,
people
are
going
to
be
on
merle
hay
road
to
get
here
and
they'll,
see
that
sign
that
faces
west.
But
if
I'm
correct,
a
lot
of
traffic
would
come
from
the
south
already
on
the
site.
Aren't
there
two
or
three
entrances
further
south,
and
does
this
property
also
connect
with
some
kind
of
connection
road
or
a
frontage
to
another
strip,
mall
or
group
shopping
area
further
south?
Is
that
correct.
F
Yeah
it
you
know,
you
can
drive
through
this
site
all
the
way
down.
To
probably
I
wanted
to
call
it
dolls,
but
price
chopper
and
out
on
the
street
there.
So
yeah,
it's
yes,
that's
accurate.
F
We
felt
that
it
was.
It
was
a
reasonable
request
that
that
it
didn't
seem
controversial,
given
the
scale
and
size
of
what
they're
proposing
as
it
relates
to
the
the
building
and
how
it
sits
on
the
property
and
the
character
of
the
property,
and
that's
what
led
us
to
recommend
approval
and-
and
we
knew
when
we
were
preparing
the
agenda
at
that
point-
that
we
were
going
to
be
supportive
of
it.
And
therefore,
since
it
was
an
exception
level
relief
and
we
were
supportive.
We
went
ahead
and
put
on
the
consent
agenda.
B
Okay,
well
hearing
none
we'll
go
ahead
and
we'll
let
the
appellant
speak
first,
and
so
what
we'll
do
the
appellant
can
have
up
to
10
minutes
to
present
the
reasoning
for
their
appeal
and
they
need
to
start
by
giving
their
full
name
and
their
address
if
you're
here
as
a
professional
as
a
contractor,
architect,
engineer
attorney
place
a
business
if
you're
here
as
a
concerned
resident
or
landowner,
it
can
be
the
place
where
you
live
as
appropriate.
B
K
Hi
miranda
casons
from
chestnut
signs,
971
north
east.
B
K
Okay,
miranda
castens
with
chestnut
signs
from
971
northeast
broadway
avenue
in
des
moines
iowa,
I'm
here
as
a
representative,
because
we
would
be
the
company
that
would
be
installing
these
signs
for
the
customer
kind
of
the
same
case
that
the
city
was
presenting
were
looking
to
have
a
presence
not
only
along
merle
hay
for
motorists
running
along
there,
but
also
view
from
the
parking
lot
so
that
people
on
the
property
can
see
where
they're
going
and
find
the
location.
K
Basically,
they
said
that's
really
important
to
them,
because
that's
part
of
their
business
that
separates
them
from
some
other
pet
companies
in
the
city,
so
they're
offering
some
services
that
maybe
some
other
pet
supply
companies
don't
offer,
and
they
want
people
to
be
aware
of
that,
and
without
that
it
just
doesn't
identify
them
as
well.
So
that's
their
main
focus.
They
are
planning
on
putting
their
name
on
that
pull
sign
along
royal
hay
road
there,
but
again
the
space.
That's
there
is
so
small
that
they
wouldn't
be.
L
B
All
right,
well,
miranda,
you
don't
have
to
use
all
of
your
10
minutes
so
yeah.
I
know
anything
else.
K
If
anyone
has
any
questions,
I'd
be
happy
to
answer
them
to
the
best
of
my
ability,
but
other
than
that
I
mean
there
isn't
a
lot
of
craziness.
I
think
the
signs
fit
the
space
nicely.
I
don't
think
they're
abnormally
large
in
proportion
with
the
other
signage
in
this
in
this
space.
One
thing
that
is
kind
of
affecting
this
is
with
the
recent
code
change
the
allowed
square
footage
at
this
property
actually
decreased.
B
Well,
miranda,
I'm
just
going
to
throw
you
a
quick
one
here
with
this
photo
here
that
jason's
left
up
you've
got
your
dimensions
shown
there
with
your
measurements
and
the
way
you've
applied
your
drawing
there
in
the
photo
you've
scaled
that
appropriately,
relatively
speaking.
So
with
what
we
see
in
the
picture,
that's
about
the
size
and
scope
of
what
the
sign
would
look
like
once
it's
applied.
Is
that
correct.
K
B
Okay,
all
right!
Well,
hearing,
none
miranda!
We
will
check
back
with
you
in
a
few
minutes
here.
So
thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you.
Okay,
for
the
next
portion
of
this
agenda
item.
Is
there
anybody
that
wishes
to
speak
in
support
of
the
applicant's
request?
They've
got
up
to
five
minutes
to
present
their
reasoning
for
their
support
and
they
need
to
hit
hand,
raise
icon
and
zoom
or
star
9
on
their
phone
to
be
recognized.
B
M
Chris
morse
president
of
merle
hay
neighborhood
association,
p.o
box,
31036
des
moines,
iowa
50310,
mr
chair
and
other
members
of
the
board.
I
thank
you
for
your
time
and
the
ability
to
speak
and
stand
in
opposition
of
this
appeal
request.
M
The
as
I
understand
it,
from
working
with
bert
over
the
last
week
or
so
discussing
this
issue.
It
is
our
opinion
that,
based
upon
the
qualifications
for
the
exceptions
to
be
met
that
there
needs
to
be
all
items,
they
need
to
check
all
those
boxes.
Specifically
a
b
and
c.
The
requested
exception
is
reasonably
necessary
due
to
practical
difficulties
related
to
the
subject:
property
b.
The
practical
difficulties
related
to
the
subject.
Property
cannot
be
overcome
by
feasible,
alternative
means
other
than
an
exception
and
c.
M
The
requested
exception
will
not
have
significant
adverse
impact
on
the
essential
character,
the
surrounding
area.
I
would
contest
that
these
three
boxes
are
not
being
checked
off.
Of
this
specific
need
and
I'll
provide
some
examples
in
regards
to
item
c
going
backwards
up
the
list,
if
you
will,
this
requested
exception,
would
have
an
adverse
impact
on
the
essential
character.
The
surrounding
area,
as
the
murali
neighborhood
association,
as
well
as
the
city
of
des
moines,
is
working
to
revitalize
this
corridor
in
reference
to
the
city
code
changes.
M
I
know
the
representative
for
the
business
shared
that
including
the
dog
washing
grooming,
is
an
important
attribute
of
this
sign.
However,
I
would
argue
that
the
sign,
as
it's
being
presented,
those
two
specific
items,
aren't
really
going
to
jump
out
to
somebody.
That's
along
merle
hay
road
at
this
size.
M
Also,
as
discussed
earlier,
I
believe
cindy
brought
it
up
from
the
board.
There
is
a
pull
sign,
that's
going
to
be
available
for
the
tenant
to
lease
if
they
so
choose,
and
that
would
provide
them
another
opportunity
to
reach
out
to
the
motorist
in
regards
to
their
business
and
the
things
that
they,
the
services
that
they're
going
to
be
able
to
provide.
M
Lastly,
again
going
backwards
down
this
list,
if
you
will
in
regards
to
item
a,
we
do
not
believe
that
this
has
a
practical
difficulty,
as
this
property
is
one
of
the
closest
properties
along
merle
hay
road
and
the
frontage
road.
That
is
there
and
there's
a
pole,
sign
that's
available
and
then
there's
other
ways
to
get.
The
word
out.
The
merle
hay
neighborhood
association
would
look
forward
to
working
with
this
business
as
well
as
any
other
business
to
get
the
word
out
about
their
services
and
their
contribution
to
the
community
and
our
local
economy.
M
H
K
M
The
objection
from
the
I
was
just
providing
some
examples
and
some
evidence,
since
this
is
a
fact-based
board,
that's
quasi-legal.
Our
overall
objection
would
be
to
the
size,
light
pollution,
clutter,
etc.
We
want
all
businesses
going
forward
to
adhere
within
the
city
requirements
and
exceptions
to
not
be
provided
unless
there
is
a
hardship
or
a
practical
difficulty.
We
do
not
feel
that
this
situation
provides
for
those
okay.
Thank
you.
B
B
But
in
this
specific
case
you
had-
and
I
appreciate
cindy's
question
sounds
like
you're
concerned
about
the
size,
but
sometimes
there
are
some
practical
difficulties,
as
this
picture
shows.
A
lot
of
people
would
probably
approach
this
business
from
already
being
on
the
property
or
might
be
inclined
to
visit
the
business
if
they
knew
what
it
was.
B
But,
as
you
can
see,
if
there's
no
sign
face
on
the
south
side,
would
you
find
it
reasonable
that
they
would
be
that
we
would
grant
an
exception
to
allow
a
sign
on
the
south
side?
Is
it
the
scale?
Is
your
concern
or
or
again,
if
we're
we're
talking
about
reducing
clutter?
I
understand
that
most
of
I
think
a
lot
of
the
concerns,
at
least
in
the
past,
were
the
proliferation
of
pole
signs
and
not
because
there's
one
in
the
picture,
but
the
sheer
number
of
billboards
on
that
corridor
versus
on
building
signage.
M
I
would
actually
argue
because
of
my
familiarity
with
this,
that
the
frontage
sign
should
be
smaller.
A
lot
of
the
traffic
that
you
have
back
and
forth
between
or
along
merle
hay
is
commuter
traffic
and
the
ability
to
catch
it
out
of
your
side
eye,
if
you
will,
as
you're
going
north
or
as
you're
going
south,
is
not
going
to
be
as
high
as
being
able
to
see
that
sign
on
the
south
frontage.
M
So
I,
like
the,
I
think
we
would
be
amenable
to
that.
But
again,
my
direction
from
the
board
and
the
discussion
that
we
had
is
that
we
would
like
for
this
sign
and
future
signs
in
our
corridor
to
adhere
to
city
code.
So,
if
that's
an
exception
that
needs
to
be
made,
I
think
that
would
be
an
appropriate
move.
B
B
B
N
John
godrin
here
500
southeast
18th
street,
just
just
just
a
quick
comment
here
that
these
appear
to
be
channel
channel
letters.
I
was
sorry
I
was.
I
was
off
of
the
on
another,
so
I
didn't
hear
all
the
discussion,
but
I
just
just
my
personal
observation
that
these
appear
to
be
channel
letters
and
and
you're
charging
the
box
square
footage.
There's
a
fair
bit
of
blank
paint
wall
space
on
this
that
I
I
think
you
should
take
that
into
consideration.
B
A
B
Yep,
yes,
all
right,
okay,
but
john!
Yes,
we
we
do.
We
do.
Thank
you
for
that
comment.
That's
maybe
a
good
way
to
look
at
the
issue
of
neutral
comment,
so
sometimes
it's
a
good
way
to
learn
how
how
the
city
ordinance
works
in
that
process.
B
Anybody
else
wishes
to
make
any
comment
on
this
item
all
right,
seeing
none,
let's
see
we'll
see
before
we
go
back
to
the
applicant
briefly,
any
other
questions
for
city
staff
from
the
board.
B
Okay,
oh,
is
that
a
question
from
anybody?
If
not
we'll
go
ahead
and
go
back
to
miranda,
since
there
was
someone,
especially
that
spoke
in
opposition
miranda,
do
you
have
anything
you
want
to
add
in
closing
you
have
up
to
30
minutes.
You
don't
have
to
give
any
closing
comments,
but
if
you'd
like
to
provide
any
final
information,
you
get
the
final
say
here
for
testimony.
K
I
guess
my
only
thoughts
would
be
you
know
he
had
mentioned,
removing
the
sign
from
the
west
elevation
facing
merle
hay
road,
as
most
people
would
be
able
to
see
the
sign
on
the
south,
but
that
would
remove
any
visibility
of
the
business.
As
you
came
south
down,
merle
hay
road.
So
I
don't
really
think
that
would
be
a
reasonable
option.
I
do
feel
like
the
size
of
the
property
does
represent
the
hardship
here.
K
It
is
a
very,
very
big
property
and
yes,
the
building
is
fairly
close
to
road,
but
because
of
that
frontage
road,
it
is
set
back
a
little
more.
So
I
think,
looking
at
the
size
of
the
sign
versus
the
building
and
the
size
of
the
lettering,
I
do
think
scale
wise.
It
is
appropriate
for
the
signage
and
as
well
as
I
know,
the
grooming
and
dog
wash
are
smaller,
but
it
does
still
set
them
apart
a
little.
If,
if
someone
comes
to
the
property,
they
can
say,
oh
hey
this.
K
K
So
I
don't
think
that
really
affords
them
the
ability
to
express
what
they
need
to
express
on
the
full
sign
sure
and
then,
as
far
as
it,
having
a
significant
adverse
impact
on
the
essential
character
of
the
area.
I
do
understand,
as
mentioned
before,
trying
to
get
rid
of
large
billboards
and
things
that
are
causing
visual
clutter,
but
I
do
also
appreciate
the
fact
that
communities
like
to
see
tenants
in
spaces.
So
when
you
come
into
a
strip
mall,
when
you
see
a
sign
that
says
hey,
this
property
is
revitalized.
K
This
property
has
people
here
and
seeing
that
and
having
that
visual
impact
on
people
allows
them
to
know
that
the
businesses
are
booming.
There's
people
coming
in
and
out
of
there
and
it
doesn't
leave
it
looking
so
blank
and
naked
and
kind
of
abandoned.
So
to
me
I
don't
see
the
adverse
effect
of
this
sign.
I
think
again,
as
I
mentioned
before,
that
it
fits
the
building
nicely
and
it
is
character
with
what
is
going
on
in
the
neighborhood
currently
so,
okay,
anyone
have
any
other
questions
for
me.
G
Sling
carl
snap,
one
question:
what
would
the
feasibility
be
of
making
one
sign
smaller
than
the
other,
to
bring
the
signage
down
to
more
within
the
variance
level,
rather
than
the
exception
or
or
just
to
make
it.
B
G
K
B
Okay,
all
right
so
we've
had
our
testimony
in
questions.
So
at
this
point
of
the
hearing,
we're
going
to
close
the
public
portion
now
and
we
go
to
board
deliberation
so
board
members.
Do
you
have
any
thoughts
you'd
like
to
share
on
some
reasoning
for
either
approval
or
denial
and
subject
to
that
we
can
have
a
discussion
and
then
we'll
see
what
motions
we
may
have
on
the
table.
Anybody
want
to
make
a
first
go:
carlson
yeah,
let's
go
ahead
and
recognize
dave.
Okay,.
I
I
mel,
I
thought
some
of
your
comments
were
pretty
appropriate.
I
agree
with
you
100
as
far
as
the
clutter
that
we're
trying
to
reduce,
I
think,
is
more
in
the
poll
or
at
least
as
I
see
it
as
more
related
to
pull
signs
and
just
I
think,
just
being
overwhelmed
going
down,
merle,
hay
or
other
some
of
the
other
heavyweight
corridor
or
travel
corridors
in
the
community.
So
you
know,
I
think,
the
I
think
these
the
fact
that
staff
saw
this
as
a
put
and
put
on
the
consent
agenda.
I
I
To
support
this,
as
far
as
staff
recommendation,
this
swordbrain
knows.
B
Great
any
other
thoughts,
okay,.
G
So
I
think
we
do
need
to
have
a
sign
on
here.
Like
I
said
it
is
a
big
building,
so
the
amount
of
signage
doesn't
really
add
to
the
clutter
and
for
those
reasons
and
the
ones
that
dave
and
mel
mentioned,
I'm
in
sports
staff
recommendation.
So
I
will
make
a
motion
if
it's
not
too
early
to
go
with
staff
recommendation.
B
Okay,
do
we
have
any
other
thoughts,
or
maybe
a
second.
H
Mr
chair,
this
is
cindy
I'd
like
to
just
share
a
comment
and
go
ahead
and
make
a
second
to
lens
motion,
but
I
am
excited
to
see
this
building
finally
get
used.
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
great
purpose.
It's
a
it's!
A
pretty
innocuous
use
and
it's
a
pretty
great
use,
as
as
many
of
us
have
pets
that
we
love
and
care
for
and
need
supplies
for.
B
B
D
D
D
D
B
Okay,
all
right
all
right
miranda,
just
make
sure
you
work
closely
with
city
staff
on
that
sign
permit
and
as
long
as
you're
in
compliance,
then
you'll
get
a
copy
that
decision
in
order
by
mid
next
week.
B
Okay,
so
this
will
move
us
now
to
item
number
eight.
This
is
a
reconsideration
of
a
conditional
use
permit
request
brought
forward
by
the
city's
zoning
enforcement
officer.
This
item
was
continued
from
our
september.
23Rd
agenda
relates
to
a
property
at
525
east
grand
avenue,
so
we'll
turn
it
over
to
the
city.
O
Chair
members
of
the
board,
this
is
suen
donovan,
the
neighborhood
inspection
and
zoning
administrator
for
the
city
of
des
moines.
Bert
would
would
you
be
willing
to
go
through
the
slides
for
me?
Okay,
thank
you
bert.
So
this
came
before
the
board.
The
last
time
it
was
september
23rd
2020,
on
a
request
to
reconsider
the
conditional
use
permit
for
a
bar
tavern
sign
the
liquor
wine
or
beer.
O
O
O
The
thing
I
I
think
we
still
should
go
forward
with
the
with
the
hearing,
based
on
the
fact
that
maybe
once
we
hear
the
evidence
the
board
may
want
to
consider
whether
or
not
a
bar
use
in
this
building
is,
is
conducive
and
protects.
The
neighborhood
or
going
to
a
restaurant
use
would
be
more
beneficial
or
if
the
board
would
like
to
do
some
different
conditions
on
the
conditional
use
permit
going
forward
to
more
protect
the
neighborhood
from
this
becoming
another
nuisance.
O
Again,
you
will
recall
that
this
did
come
before
you
for
for
reconsideration
for
a
tenant
that
was
previous
to
this
tenant
on
a
same
sort
of
request
because
of
noise
and
disturbances
coming
from
the
patio.
O
So
on
the
screen
right
now
we
have
an
aerial
of
the
area
showing
the
location
of
the
building
next
slide,
here's
a
picture
of
the
the
building
and,
as
you
can
see
it
sits
on
the
corner
of
east
grand
and
east
6th,
and
up
above,
is
an
open
air
patio,
which
is
where
much
of
the
noise
seems
to
be
emanating.
That
creates
a
problem
for
the
neighborhood
next
slide.
O
One
of
the
board's
conditions
on
a
conditional
use
says
that
they
have
to
be
in
compliance
with
with
city
ordinances.
This
being
one
of
them,
can
you
forward
to
the
zoning
there
we
go
so
here's
the
zoning
application
that
was
filed
in
order
to
bring
this
forward
back
in
the
fall
of
last
year.
O
So
in
2010
is
when
this
first
came
before
the
board.
They
wanted
to
expand
the
existing
tavern
used
to
include
the
85
foot
by
45
foot
area,
atop
the
existing
building
for
an
outdoor
service
area
next
page.
O
So
the
conditions
were
the
rooftop
patio
she'll
include
an
entrance
from
east
6th,
have
outdoor
lighting
live
outdoor
music
on
the
rooftop,
she'll
be
limited
to
non-amplified
performance,
any
outdoor,
sound
or
music
or
any
rooftop
patio
she'll
be
limited
to
levels
that
will
be
considered
background
auditory
in
nature,
and
they
had
to
comply
with
article
4
chapter
42,
which
is
the
noise
control,
ordinance,
litter
trash
and
then
number
nine
is
revocation
if
we
find
if
we
find
that
the
operation
of
the
business
constitutes
a
nuisance
or
exhibits
patterns
of
violating
the
conditions
set
forth
in
the
conditional
use.
O
O
O
We
brought
it
back
in
in
september,
applicable
requirements
for
this
conditional
use.
Permit
are
the
proposed
location,
design,
construction
and
operation
of
the
use
adequately
safe
guards,
the
health
safety
and
general
wear
welfare
of
persons
residing
in
the
adjoining
or
surrounding
residential
area.
The
business
is
sufficiently
separated
from
the
enjoying
residential
by
distance,
landscaping,
walls
or
structures
to
prevent
any
noise
vibration
light
generated
by
the
business
from
having
a
significant
detrimental
impact
on
the
adjoining
residential
uses.
J
O
So
I'm
going
to
go
in
september.
The
next
thing
I
want
to
talk
about
is
on
page
22,
bert
the
we
got
a
letter
from
the
attorney
for
the
oc
previous
occupant
or
the
occupant
we're
still
not
clear
if
they've
actually
moved
out
his
response
to
the
conditional
use
permit
so
we're
submitting
that
into
evidence,
although
I
do
not
believe
they're
here
to
speak
to
this
issue,
so
that
was
his
analysis
back
to
us.
O
O
Or
he
is
in
favor
of
their
class
for
the
reconsideration
right.
Here's
an
email
from
a
previous
occupant,
brittany,
french,
her
her.
She
actually
moved
out
of
the
building.
You.
E
O
Next
was
the
photo
that
brittany
took,
she
was
concerned
about
the
motorcycles
and
parked
in
a
no
parking
zone,
making
it
difficult
for
anyone
to
load
and
unload.
O
They
produced
an
public
records
request.
O
Have
an
incident
report,
I
will
note
that
there
were
shots
fired
in
the
business
over
the
over
the
new
year's
eve
and
again,
last
friday
night
there
was
a
shop
fired
inside
of
the
building.
O
B
B
O
And
then
we
have
if
we
go
further
you've
we've
got
a
sort
of
the
call
sheet
for
the
area.
Oh
did
yeah
bert.
Let
them
read.
L
L
O
L
B
P
B
O
I
think
it's,
I
think
it's
a
lot.
I
think
that's
a
lot
of
calls.
L
G
This
is
lynn
carlson.
Do
we
know
what
dpq
is.
O
O
O
Here
we
have
a
report
of
intoxicated
gas
miscellaneous
screaming
in
motorcycles.
L
O
And
as
we
go
further
on,
it's
sort
of
shown
on
a
scatter
map
from
a
radius
500
feet.
O
O
We
did.
If
we
look
at
page
46
reach
out
to
the
attorney
of
the
then
owner
and
tried
to
initiate
a
good
neighbor
agreement.
We
were
never
able
to
get
that
entered
with
them.
At
one
point,
they
had
told
me
that
they
they
wanted
to
increase
the
level
of
music
on
the
upstairs
patio
so
that
they
could
get
a
type
a
sound
permit,
which
would
have
been
the
eight
concert
level
permits
a
month
at
the
higher.
You
know,
85
to
100
dba
on
that
patio,
so
we
never
were
able
to
reach
an.
O
I'm
sorry
you're
right
sure
I
should
have
been
more
clear.
We
were
at
this
point
working
with
the
leaseholder,
the
bar
operator
owner,
not
the
the
property
owner
who
we.
G
O
And
then
page
54
is
sort
of
their
good
neighbor
agreement
coming
back
at
us.
It
was,
it
was
never
signed.
O
Page
55
is
a
communication
from
the
start
east
village,
indicating
that
they
they
discussed,
supporting
the
good
neighbor
agreement,
but
they
weren't
going
to
enter
into
conversations
about
it.
So
they
may
have
something
to
say
further
about
the
nuisance
that
this
bar
created.
O
Here's
a
complaint
december
20th
of
2020
150
people
in
the
bar,
none
were
wearing
masks
or
standing
six
feet
away,
played
loud,
music
and
a
and
a
fight
between
20
people
started.
They
called
the
police
on
that
occasion.
O
Corner
this
we
had
sent
gilbert
a
letter
asking
them
to
come
in
and
talk
to
us
about
the
sound
permit.
So
this
is
a
response
to
that
information
about
the
sound
permit.
O
I
think
let
me
just
click
through
here.
I
think
that's,
basically
all
of
my
presentations.
Some
of
these
attachments,
I
believe,
will
be
spoken
to
and
referred
to
by
other
people
who
wish
to
speak
on
this
item.
I
see
january
15th.
There
was
a
notice
to
quit
and
vacate.
A
O
O
You
could
further
you
could
amend
the
use,
approval
and
say
that
there's
absolutely
to
be
no
music
of
any
kind
on
the
patio
which
may
assist
in
reducing
noise
if
it
is
rented
as
a
bar
again
under
your
under
the
conditional
use,
approval
could
include
some
of
the
provisions
in
a
good
neighbor
agreement.
If
you
wanted
to
amend
the
conditional
use
approval
such
things
as
no
loitering
signs
controlling
the
sidewalk.
O
Outside
lighting,
where
appropriate
and
have
those
be
conditions
of
a
conditional
use
approval,
I
I
certainly
do
not
want
to
have
a
repeat
of
what
people
live
through
for
the
last
several
months
with
the
bar
that
was
in
place
just
moving
another
bar
in
and
having
similar
problems.
I
don't
believe
that
that
would
benefit
the
neighborhood.
L
O
So
I
I
think
I
will
leave
it
at
that
and
is.
Are
there
any
questions.
B
Sue
I've
got
a
brief
one
here
and
I
referenced
this
earlier,
so
I
I
believe,
if
I
remember
this
has
been
in
front
of
us
a
number
of
times
over
the
last
decade,
plus
the
owner
of
the
property,
has
been
the
same
owner
for
the
last
decade.
If
I'm
correct
is
that
is
that,
to
your
recollection,.
B
O
B
Okay,
okay,
because
that
relates
to
a
secondary
question,
so
the
current
owner
was
the
one
then
issued
the
original
conditional
use
permit,
but
it
runs
with
the
property
so
whether
we
change
owners
or
change
operators
of
the
tavern
once
that's
issued,
you
know
if
the
use
comes
back
up
for
consideration
for
reconsideration
or
revocation.
B
O
Yes,
it
would
come
down.
The
bottom
line
is
it
would
come
down
to
the
owner
now,
the
okay,
the
first
hearing
that
you
had
regarding
the
occupancy
most
currently
that
we're
talking
about
yes,
the
tenant
came
in
the
tenant
came
in
to
defend
on
the
first
got
it
go
around:
okay,
okay,
they
have,
they
have
told
us
they
are
not
going
to
participate
in
this
hearing
which,
but
it
it
really
is
the
property
owner
the
real
estate
owner.
That
is
the
beneficiary.
B
Sure,
because
they
ultimately,
they
either
operate
the
location
themselves
and
have
income
or
they
are
leasing
it
to
a
tenant
and
they
have
the
income
from
that
perspective.
So
the
buck
really
stop
stops,
then
with
the
property
owner.
Here
it
does
yes,
okay,
great.
Thank
you,
yeah
any
other
questions
for
suanne
from
the
board.
B
Q
Good
afternoon
will
reasoner
at
the
dickinson
law.
Firm
address
is
699
walnut
street
suite
1600
des
moines,
iowa
50309,
okay,
thank
you
for
your
time.
Today.
I've
got
good
news
for
the
board,
which
is
that
club
525
has
officially
confirmed
to
me
that
they
have
vacated
and
surrendered
any
possession
of
the
premises.
So
club
525
and
larry
mason
jr
the
actual
operator
they're
they're
out
they're
no
longer
operating
a
business
at
this
property.
Q
Bar
operator
was
the
one
causing
the
issues,
not
not
the
property
owner
here,
the
it's
clear
from
the
police
report,
information
that
ms
donovan
showed
from
what
I
could
tell
from
that
information
looked
like
trip
logs
and
everything
started
sometime
in
june
of
2020,
which
is
right
when
club
525
came
in
in
the
spring
of
2020..
So
all
these
issues
are
obviously
attributable
to
club
525.
Q
The
conditional
use
permit
was
originally
granted
in
2010
nearly
10
years
without
issue.
So
it's
clear
that
the
problem
here
was
club
525,
not
the
property
owners
club
525,
like
I
said,
is
now
gone.
We
were
clearing
up
title
and
possession
issues
just
to
ensure
that
club
525
no
longer
has
any
sort
of
right
of
possession.
Q
We
have
commenced
an
eviction
action,
that's
pending
in
district
court
right
now,
but
we,
like,
I
said,
just
bring
this
here
and
we
received
email
confirmation
from
mr
mason
that
they
have
completely
surrendered
possession
the
garden
nightclub
which
formerly
operated
in
the
southern
area
of
the
east
village.
The
garden
nightclub
is
planning
on
moving
into
the
property.
Q
Q
They
note
that
the
garden's
a
long-standing
business
that
has
had
few
problems
over
the
years
tim,
I
believe
his
name-
is
ripma
r-y-p-m-a.
Q
I
noticed
his
name
on
several
of
the
emails
that
ms
donovan
cited
to
tim
from.
What
I
can
tell
is
an
owner
of
property,
residential
properties
like
apartment
buildings,
near
the
location
here,
and
he
was
also
the
owner
of
the
building
that
the
garden
was
formerly
in
and
in
that
article
he
indicated
that
he's
had
no
problems
with
the
garden
and
he
indicated
that
if
the
garden
would
be
a
good
neighbor
in
this
new
east
grain
location,
the
more
the
merrier
he's
quoted
saying
all
signs
here.
Q
Whether
or
not
club
525's
activities
may
be
constituted.
A
nuisance
is
a
moot
at
this
point,
because
club
525
is
gone.
The
wilsons
the
property
owners
they're
considered
of
being
good
neighbors
in
the
vibrant
east
village
community,
a
loss
of
the
conditional
use
permit
here,
will
result
in
the
building
likely
being
vacant
for
a
while
and
will
prevent
a
des
moines
staple
the
garden
from
operating
in
the
historic
east
village.
Q
Ms
donovan
mentioned
that
you
know
an
alternative
would
be
to
operate
a
restaurant
out
of
the
building.
Well,
that's
assuming
that
there's
a
proper
infrastructure
for
a
restaurant
that
there's
all
the
kitchen
equipment
in
that
restaurant.
I
think
that's
not
a
fair
assumption
to
make
here.
Q
Moreover,
I
think
that
it's
completely
appropriate
for
this
board.
Well,
I
guess
it
wouldn't
be.
The
sport
would
be
this
the
city
to
reach
out
to
the
garden
about
entering
into
a
good
neighbor
agreement.
Again,
I
don't
represent
the
garden,
but
based
on
the
gardens,
you
know
track
record
for
over
three
decades.
I
would
certainly
assume
that
they
would
be
open
to
being
a
good
neighbor.
Q
It's
clear
that
club
five
to
five,
mr
and
mr
mason
were
not
the
good
neighbors.
The
wilsons,
though,
have
rectified
that,
and
it
is
in
the
east
village
community's
best
interest
to
see
that
the
garden
has
the
opportunity
to
operate
and
be
a
good
neighbor
and
a
cultural
contributor
to
the
important
neighborhood
in
the
city
from
a
purely
legal
standpoint.
Q
I'd
point
out
that
the
city
has
the
burden
of
proof
to
demonstrate
facts
that
are
legally
sufficient
to
remove
a
property
right
which
here's
the
condition
you
permit
from
a
legal
standpoint.
I
don't
think
that
there's
sufficient
evidence
to
remove
the
conditional
use
permit.
What
we've
got
are
anecdotal
comments
from
from
the
city
itself.
Q
There's
no
hard
evidence
that
I
see
that
the
city
has
met
the
high
legal
burden
of
establishing
an
actual
nuisance,
but
you
know
long
story
short.
I
think
this
board
is
most
effective
at
finding
good
results
for
the
community
when
it
is
problem
solving
and
looking
for
solutions
that
can
benefit
everybody
instead
of
a
zero-sum
decision.
Q
Aside
from
the
legal
issues,
the
problem
that
is
cited
by
the
city
has
worked
itself
out,
because
club
525
is
no
longer
operating
in
the
space,
a
respectable
and
long
time
entity
the
garden
is
going
to
be
taking
over.
The
garden
clearly
has
the
support
of
major
property
owner
in
the
area,
as
well
as
two
city
council
members.
Q
The
right
result
has
occurred
in
this
case
organically.
The
problem
is
solved.
Club
525,
which
was
the
source
of
the
issue,
is
gone,
there's
no
reason
to
devastate
the
property
owner
and
prevent
good
use
of
property
by
a
respectable
entity,
an
entity,
the
garden
which
has
contributed
to
the
vibrant
culture
of
the
east
village
for
decades,
and
will
do
so
from
this
property
going
forward
as
long
as
the
sport
does
not
prevent
it
from
happening
board.
A
B
R
As
as
my
lawyer
said,
club
525
has
already
moved
out
by
by
still
requesting
that
the
cop
be
taken
away,
you're
asking
us
to
be
held
responsible
for
the
actions
after
the
fact,
but
as
landlords
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
legal
remedies
to
resolve
that
situation.
R
R
R
If
our
tenants
wouldn't
have
told
us,
we
never
would
have
known
I'd
love
to
be
informed
as
soon
as
the
city
is
aware
of
any
issue,
so
that
we
can
actively
help
to
resolve
a
problem
instead
of
just
defend
against
it.
At
a
hearing,
we've
asked
for
and
been
denied
access
to
the
evidence
that
is
going
to
be
presented
by
the
city
at
the
hearings
and
basically
just
told
it's
going
to
be
presented
at
the
meeting.
So
I
I
had
no
idea
that
there
were
shots
fired
in
my
building.
R
I
had
absolutely
no
idea
until
she
just
said
it:
we've
never
been
notified.
We
have
never.
I
had
no
idea.
R
I
don't
know
as
as
far
as
this
whole
process
goes,
I
don't
know
what
the
criteria
is
for
the
the
nuisance
or
whatever.
I
think
we'll
kind
of
talk
to
that
trying
to
go
through
my
information
here.
R
I,
I
guess
that's
that's
all
that
I
have.
We
do
have
a
new
tenant.
Hopefully
we,
if
we
don't
lose
the
cup,
we
can
get
everything
signed
and
get
them
in
there.
R
B
All
right,
so
what
I'm
going
to
do
here
board
members?
Do
we
have
any
questions
for
either
nancy
or
will.
G
Yes,
as
a
property
owner,
your
attitude
of
not
being
notified
of
anything
is
kind
of
a,
I
think,
a
head
in
the
sand
approach.
G
I
mean
the
other
person
was
able
to
get
information
out
with
filing
for
police
reports
of
what's
been
going
on
in
that
area
and
as
a
landlord
you,
I
think
you
could
have
done
that
and
I
knew
about
shots
fired
and
I
don't
even
go
to
bars
because
I
read
the
newspaper
and
suanne
said
it
was
very
well
open
and
I'm
just
wondering
if
we
were
to
extend
this
to
you,
because
the
permit
does
belong
to
you.
R
I
I
guess
I
would
be
open
to
suggestions
because
other
than
calling
down
and
asking
for
those
reports
every
week.
I'm
I'm
not
sure
what
I
can
do
and
I
I
guess
I
was
you
know
in
the
past
we
had
been
told
that
suan
would
would
communicate
with
us
and
we
would.
We
would
be
a
part
of
this
and
we
would.
R
B
Okay,
I'm
gonna
throw
one
out
will
said
that
this
has
been
solved
organically
and
nancy
said
she
wasn't
aware
of
even
what
was
going
on
down
there.
So
I'm
I
am
wondering
who's
in
charge
here
will
or
nancy
did
you
issue
an
eviction
notice
to
mr
mason,
or
did
he
just
organically
decide
to
leave?
Q
Yeah,
can
you
can
you
am
I
still
recognized?
Can
you
hear
me?
Yes?
Yes,
this
is
so
they
failed
to
pay
rent,
I
mean
so
this
is
going
to
get
into
some
technicalities
under
the
iowa
code
on
how
you
can
evict
people,
but
there's
a
failure
to
pay
rent,
and
so
we
we
issued
this
notice.
It's
on
your
screen
now
for
failure
to
pay
rent
that
wasn't
cured,
and
then
we
entered
into
negotiations
with
matthew
gilbert.
You
also
saw
his
name.
Q
Quite
often
he
represents
mr
mason,
but
he
does
not
represent
club
five
to
five
llc's.
So
that's
just
a
a
legal
distinction
that
you
don't
really
need
to
get
into.
We've
commenced
the
eviction
action
based
on
failure
to
pay
rent.
So
it's
a
breach
of
contract
basis
with
the
landlord.
Q
I
mean
that
a
problem
tenant
who
is
obviously
causing
problems
to
the
neighborhood.
You
know
it
was
also
causing
problems
to
the
landlord
here,
not
not
right,
paying
any
rent
and
so
organically.
It
worked
itself
out
in
terms
of
we
don't
need
city
action,
depriving
a
property
owner
of
use
of
property
in
order
to
get
someone
else
in
here
and
we're
getting
in
the
garden
nightclub.
Hopefully,
as
long
as
this
permit
does
not
is
not
taken
away.
B
Q
Yeah
well,
thank
you.
If
you
look
in
the
middle,
where
I
identifies
the
amount
that's
due
since
january
2021,
so
maybe.
B
Okay,
well
kind
of
what
I'm
getting
at
here
then.
So,
basically,
by
the
time
the
city
had
issued
its
draft
agenda,
it
looks
like
only
then
did
you
press
the
gas
to
get
them
out
of
there.
Did
you
issue
any
previous
notices?
Were
they
not
delinquent
in
their
rent?
I
mean
when,
when
did
you
really
start
putting
the
pressure
on
to
say,
hey
you,
you
guys
aren't
performing
within
the
terms
of
our
lease
in
december.
A
B
B
Yeah
so
in
september,
when,
when
we
put
everybody
on
the
warning
track
and
said,
do
not
come
back
to
the
principal's
office,
we
do
not
want
to
see
you
here.
All
of
your
actions
against
the
tenant
have
taken
place,
since
you
were
in
front
of
board
of
adjust
in
september.
Is
that
correct.
B
Yes,
okay,
all
right
now,
I
want
to
turn
turn
to
the
future
here,
because
this
seems
to
be
where
everybody
wants
to
head.
If
we
want
to
put
the
past
behind
us-
and
we
want
to
look
to
the
future,
how
do
any
of
us
know
that
it
is
likely
that
this
other
tenant,
the
garden,
would
plan
to
be
in
there?
Do
you
have
any
pre-lease
in
intent
to
enter
into
any
agreements?
Do
you
have
anything
in
writing
from
them?
This
is
a
hearing.
B
We
we,
we
don't
use
things
from
the
des
moines
register.
So
do
you
have
anything
documented
that
you're
negotiating
a
lease
with
them.
R
R
I,
but
I
don't
believe
that
we'll
be
able
to
go
through
with
that.
If
we
lose
the
cup.
B
Mm-Hmm,
okay,
all
right
yeah,
I'm
just
trying
to
see
how
strong
a
bridge
would
would
be
here
of
likely
tenants
because
again,
in
this
case,
the
conditional
use
permit
nancy.
If
you
were
of
the
wilsons
in
in
2010,
you
were
the
one
who
received
the
initial
conditional
use
permit.
Is
that
correct?
That's.
R
R
Yes,
we
had,
we
had
a
tenant
that
failed
to
abide
by
the
the
terms
of
the
lease
and
he
had
music
on
the
rooftop.
B
Right
because
I
think
that
tenant
was
in
front
of
us
as
well
yeah
in
the
last
two
years,
you've
had
two
tenants
who
have
failed
to
comply
with
lease
arrangements
operation
in
accordance
with
the
condition
of
use,
permit
excessive
noise.
That's
not
the
best
track
record
for
when
you
lease
this
out
to
others.
Don't
you
think?
B
R
One
of
the
things
that
it's
it's
really
hard
when
we
originally
talked
to
larry.
R
They
said
that
they
were
going
to
be
a
nice
relaxed,
jazz
and
blues
club
and
that's
what
they
pitched
to
us
and
that's
that's
what
we
thought
when
we
originally
signed
the
lease
that
didn't
happen
and
it's
it's
truly
unfortunate
and
I
wish
we
wouldn't
have
rented
to
them.
But
do
I
don't
don't
know
that?
There's
a
way
to
to
say
this
person
is
going
to
be
bad
for
your
business
right,
he's
a
respected
person
in
the
community.
L
B
Okay,
all
right!
Well,
we
will
check
back
with
you
in
a
few
minutes
here
so
now
for
this
next
part
of
the
hearing
this
this
would
be
a
little
different
than
when
the
the
applicant
would
lead
when
it
is
not
the
zoning
enforcement
officer.
B
T
Thanks
for
your
time
and
attention
to
this,
my
name
is
alex
johnson.
I
am
an
attorney
with
the
brown
winnick
law
firm
at
666
grand
avenue,
suite
2000,
and
I
am
here
to
speak
on
behalf
of
reproperties
llc.
T
If
you
recall
that
map
that
ms
donovan
showed
several
of
those
properties
with
the
green
are
owned
by
re
properties,
llc
so
they're
within,
I
guess
what
you
would
call
the
zone
of
affected
neighbors.
T
Re
properties
and
its
tenants
have
a
vested
interest
in
growing
and
maintaining
the
east
village
atmosphere,
the
reputation,
the
environment
and
maintaining
good
neighbor
agreements
that
follow
all
the
laws
and
regulate
regulations
set
forth
by
the
city
and
are
conducive
to
a
good
environment
they're
also
committed
to
supporting
their
neighbors.
T
T
So
I'll
shift
gears
a
little
bit.
I
have
read
the
the
entire
agenda
and
I
wholeheartedly
agree
with
the
position
taken
by
the
city,
which
I
think
means
to
revoke
the
conditional
use
permit
and
in
light
of
the
updates
mentioned,
I
want
to
focus
on
the
noise
issue
and
ms
donovan
spoke
a
little
bit
about
the
fact
that
she
didn't
know
if
or
if
the
city
would
know
if
this
location
would
be
appropriate
for
a
nightclub,
and
it
sounds
like
based
on
the
comments
we
just
heard.
T
T
Our
position
would
be
that
the
city
needs
to
take
a
good
hard
look
at
any
type
of
music
or
amplified
sound
on
that
rooftop,
no
matter
who
the
tenant
would
be.
We
don't
want
problems
like
this
to,
as
mr
mr
reasoner
said,
work
themselves
out
that
shouldn't
be
what
neighbors
have
to
resort
to.
I
think
the
city
needs
to
step
in
and
legislate
to
make
sure
these
problems
never
happen.
T
To
begin
with,
I
think
I'm
beating
a
dead
horse
by
telling
you
that
club
525
is
not
a
good
neighbor
has
not
lived
up
to
the
standards
of
the
east.
Village
has
not
followed
the
city's
rules,
not
just
with
respect
to
noise,
but
they've
been
a
nuisance
in
other
respects
as
well.
There's
been
garbage
traffic
you've
seen
all
the
the
police
call
reports
and
the
the
shots
fired
reports.
T
I
understand
detective
minahan
has
not
been
able
to
finish
his
investigation
with
respect
to
the
january
1
incident,
and
my
guess
is
that
the
one
that
just
happened
this
last
weekend
hasn't
even
been
written
up
into
a
preliminary
report.
T
So
we
think
those
things
should
be
definitely
be
considered
by
the
city,
no
matter
who's.
In
this
space.
We
we
strongly
request
the
city
to
not
only
deny
the
525
permit
but
to
further
look
into
the
conditions
and
what
needs
to
happen
to
make
sure
whoever
is
in
this
space.
B
All
right
or
hit
star
nine
on
your
phone
if
you're
participating
by
phone
going
once
going
twice.
Okay,
so
for
the
next
part,
do
we
have
anybody
who
wish
wishes
to
speak
in
support
of
the
appellant
which
is
in
essence
the
holder
of
the
conditional
use
permit?
So
for
these
purposes
today,
the
property
owner
is
there.
Anybody
wishes
to
speak
in
support
to
allow
retention
of
the
conditional
use
permit
for
this
location
and
again
hits
hit
the
raise
hand,
function
and
zoom
or
star
9
on
your
phone
to
be
recognized.
B
Okay
and
then
is
there
anybody
kind
of
in
neutrality
or
is
anybody
that
wants
to
make
any
general
observations
about
the
specific
things
related
to
this
case
at
this
location,
same
sign,
raise
hand
or
star
nine
on
your
phone.
B
B
C
Ahead,
suanne,
the
the
patio
on
this
property
is
relatively
new
edition.
Is
that
right.
O
B
G
I
have
a
question
for
suanne
the
good
neighboring
group
agreement.
Does
that
involve
just
the
person
who's
operating
the
business,
or
is
there
a
way
to
include
the
land,
the
property
owner
into
it?
So
they
are
involved
with
the
neighbor
meetings?
And
you
know
aware
of
what's
going
on
without
having
to
call
the
police
every
week.
O
I
think
that
you
could
include
good
neighbor
agreements.
All
sort
of
back
up
a
little
bit
were
created
through
the
police
department
to
deal
with
problem
properties
where
they
had
loitering
and
things
like
that
to
get
lights,
put
up
and
no
loitering
signs
and
that
type
of
thing
it's
sort
of
the
concept
morphed
into
this
case
in
that
fashion.
O
So
we
don't
normally
in
neighborhood
services,
do
good
neighbor
agreements.
We
we
were
trying
to
work
it
out
in
this
case,
at
the
request
of
the
board
to
see
if
we
couldn't
resolve
issues
before
it
came
back
to
the
board.
I
do
believe
that
the
property
owner
it
is
incumbent
upon
the
property
owner
to
understand,
what's
going
on
in
their
property,
to
take
responsibility
for
it.
O
L
O
If
the
board,
if
the
board
wishes
for
us
to
enter
a
good
neighbor
agreement
with
the
property
owner,
we
can
certainly
do
that.
It
will
be
very
close
to
what
the
board
may
put
in
its
conditional
use
of
approvals
anyway,
so
it
just
it's
up
to
the
board,
which
way
you
want
to
go
with
it.
Thank
you.
B
I
O
I
would
rat
much
rather
have
whatever
the
board
wants
them
to
to
abide
by
if
they
decide
to
continue
the
conditional
use
of
approval
or
extend
it
and
not
revoke,
it
is
to
put
whatever
they
wanted.
Whatever
you
want
them
to
do,
putting
the
board's
decision
in
order,
rather
than
have
a
separate
document
that
we
have
to
figure
out
how
to
enforce
in
a
different
method
than
bringing
it
back
here.
O
I
Tracking
a
little
bit
with
what
some
of
lynn's
comments
and
what
some
of
your
comments
were,
but
to
me
a
good
neighbor
agreement
just
seems
like
a
handshake
and
it's
got
there's
nothing
behind
it.
I
think
we'd
be
better
off
depending
on
which
direction
we
take
this
of
putting
some
conditions
together
that
are
going
to
hold
the
tenant
and
the
owner
accountable,
because
I
I'm
shocked
that
the
owner
doesn't
know.
What's
going
on.
I
B
Well,
yeah,
you
can,
but
I
got
a
question
for
you
first,
so
this
was
just
brought
up
and
dave
referenced
it
here
and
there
I
hear
about
these
good
neighbor
agreements.
I've
served
on
this
board
for
a
number
of
years.
B
O
I
would
absolutely
agree
with
that.
The
history
of
a
good
neighbor
agreement
is
you
have,
for
instance,
a
convenience
store
on
sixth
avenue
that
has
a
lot
of
people
coming
and
going
and
prostitution,
and
and
instead
of
ins
instead
of
going
in
and
arresting
a
lot
of
people
what
they
do.
Is
they
go
to
the
property
owner
and
say
here:
here's
what
we
need
you
to
do
to
keep
the
criminal
activity
down
at
your
property.
It's
a
good
neighbor
agreement.
O
You
need
to
put
up
lights,
but
no
loitering
make
sure
that
you
have
an
off-duty
police
officer
or
a
guard
to
make
sure
that
people
move
along
their
agreements
with
owners
to
limit
the
amount
of
illegal
activity,
drug
trafficking
and
that
sort
of
thing
the
525
and
some
other
people
asked
neighborhood
services
to
draft
a
good
neighbor
agreement
in
order
to
try
and
get
some
of
this
done.
B
Right:
okay,
all
right
thanks
for
clarifying
that
any
final
questions
for
suanne.
G
Okay,
I
have
one
for
judy.
This
is
lynn
yeah,
as
she
mentioned,
our
conditional
use.
Permit
does
have
a
lot
of
the
conditions
in
in
the
good
neighbor
agreement
and
the
good
neighbor
agreement
is,
you
know,
not
really
highly
enforceable,
but
is
there
a
way
that
we
could
put
into
the
conditional
use
permit
something
about
the
landlord
has
to
meet
with
the
neighborhood
association
on
a
quarterly
basis,
or
something
like
that
into
just
her
cup,
since
she
doesn't
seem
to
know
how
to
know.
What's
going
on.
P
P
This
is
kind
of
analogous
to
that,
just
something
that
enforces
that
they
are
actually
getting
together
to
discuss
things
which
we
would
normally
expect
would
happen
naturally,
but
I
don't
see
it
as
being
an
impossibility
to
put
in
there
you'll
need
to
craft
kind
of
what
sort
of
documentation
of
that
you
would
expect,
but
I,
I
think
that's
a
possibility.
Thank
you.
B
All
right,
suan
wanna,
I'm
sorry.
I
missed
something
in
my
notes
here
I
wanted
to
ask
you.
I
believe
it
was
stated
by
the
the
the
appellant,
the
property
owner
or
their
legal
representative,
that
there
that
this
site
hasn't
been
in
front
of
the
board
of
adjustment
with
any
problems
until
club
525
here
in
september.
B
Did
we
not
have
this
in
front
of
us,
maybe
within
the
last
two
years
where
there
was
an
operator
who
was
having
amplified
music
on
the
rooftop,
publishing
it
on
facebook,
people
singing
in
microphones
with
speakers,
and
it
was
in
front
of
us-
and
we
did
say
you
have
to
understand
this
conditional
use
permit
and
make
sure
your
your
tenant
your
bar
operators
understand
it
is
did.
Did
we
have
this
in
front
of
us?
Am
I
correct.
O
Yes,
you
are,
we
did
have
this
in
front
of
you,
I
believe
in
2019
and
the
wilson's
were
present
and.
O
B
O
This
was
a
case
where
we
brought
it
again
for
violation
of
the
use
permit
for
having
amplified
music
on
the
porch
or
on
the
rooftop
patio.
They
also
applied
for
an
amendment
to
the
conditional
use
approval
to
increase
sound
on
the
pet
on
the
patio
board,
decided
not
to
revoke
the
conditional
use
permit,
with
the
understanding
that
they
didn't
have
amplified
music
on
the
rooftop.
They
withdrew
their
request
to
amend
the
conditional
use
approval
regarding
sound.
B
Okay,
all
right
just
for
clarity
on
this,
and
then
we
will
get
back
to
the
appellant
here,
any
other
questions
for
suanne
from
the
board,
and
I'm
going
to
make
this
the
final
one
for
questions,
because
suanne
gets
a
rebuttal.
So
I'm
going
to
in
all
fairness
here,
she's
got
to
make
that
less
than
three
minutes.
So
whatever
suan
says
that's
going
to
be
the
last
we
talked
to
the
city,
then
all
right
board
members,
you,
okay
with
that,
all
right,
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
suanne
you.
O
So
some
some
of
the
things
I'd
like
to
point
out
that
the
wilsons
were
invited
to
a
meeting
with
dem
moines
police
department,
city
council,
myself
and
other
staff
people,
I
believe
in
august
of
last
year
and
were
told
what
the
concerns
were
of
the
police
department
and
the
noise
control
concerns
so
and
then
they
were
invited
to
participate
in
the
last
hearing.
They
have
been
involved
in
what
we're
doing
they
have
not
reached
out.
O
They
didn't
reach
out
to
us
after
the
last
board
meeting
to
talk
about
any
agreements
or
anything,
so
I
figured
they'd
left
it
up
to
their
tenants,
but
you
know
it's
kind
of
interesting
that
they
know
what's
going
on
and
the
action
they
take
to
resolve
it
organically
is
to
do
an
eviction
for
non-payment
of
rent.
But
I
don't
see
any
action
or
notices
to
the
tenant
of
a
lease
agreement
for
failure
to
comply
with
the
board
of
adjustment
conditional
uses.
O
If
I
know
about
a
gunshot
several
hours
after
it
happens,
you
would
think
that
they
would
be
somehow
in
the
loop
or
figure
out
how
to
how
to
manage
that
that
space
when
they
know
that
there's
trouble
going
on
in
that
space.
O
O
I
I
have
no
problem
necessarily
with
the
garden
going
in
there.
I
do
know
that
the
garden
operated,
probably
without
any
problems
they
were
down
in
a
warehouse
industrial
district
in
a
building
that
was
completely
brick
and
no
sound
would
probably
be
able
to
escape
from
it.
I
do
know
that
their
music
of
choice
when
they
were
in
that
building
was
techno
or
techno
rock,
which
is
quite
loud.
O
So,
if
they're
going
to
move
into
this
building,
I
I
they
have
to
understand
that
that
music
is
going
to
escape
from
this
building
it.
Isn't
it
isn't
sound
proofed,
it
doesn't
have
any
characteristics
of
the
building
that
would
it
sound
inside
of
it.
In
fact,
it's
sort
of
the
patio
and
the
window
system
will
allow
sound
to
escape.
O
B
Okay,
all
right,
okay!
Well,
that
closes
that
part
of
this
item.
So
what
is
left
here,
the
appellant
they
have
up
to
three
minutes
for
their
rebuttal.
They
in
essence
get
the
final
word
on
any
testimony
here
to
the
board.
So
mr
reisner
nancy,
you
can
share
this
time.
However,
you
want,
but
you've
got
up
to
three
minutes.
Q
Thank
you
am
I
able
to
be
heard.
Q
Again
will
reasoner
here.
I
just
want
to
touch
briefly
on
something
ms
donovan
just
said:
the
landlord
tenant
law
in
iowa
you're
not
allowed
to
just
a
property
owner,
can't
just
evict
a
tenant
for
whatever
reason
the
basis
for
eviction
is
grounded
in
contract
law.
Q
So
there
has
to
be
provision
in
the
contract
which
is
being
violated.
I
don't
think
that
it's
appropriate
at
all
for
this
board
to
you
know
some
way,
discredit
the
eviction
here,
because
it's
based
on
non-payment
of
rent,
not
paying
rent,
is
the
most
common
way
to
evict
somebody.
I've
personally
been
involved
in
you
know
many
many
landlord-tenant
issues,
both
residential
and
commercial,
where
the
the
real
issue
is
not
based
on
non-payment,
redis
because
of
something
else,
but
you
use
down
payment
of
rent
as
the
way
to
get
it
out
since
the
cleanest.
Q
That's
not
that
doesn't
shouldn't
imply
any
sort
of
wrongdoing
here.
I
think
that
it
is
appropriate
for
this
board.
Q
To
put
some,
I
guess:
restrictions
isn't
the
right
word,
but
some
conditions,
and
you
know
to
to
specifically
state
what
they'd
like
to
see
from
the
property
owner
here,
but
from
all
accounts
the
garden's
going
to
be
a
good
neighbor
they're
going
to
be
respectful,
and
I
can't
remember
which
board
member
brought
it
up,
but
I
think
the
idea
of
some
way
of
the
property
owner
meeting
with
or
hearing
from
the
neighborhood
association
as
a
routine.
Q
I
think
that
that's
a
good
idea
and
that's
that's
what
we
should
be
looking
for
here
is
ways
to
solve
the
problem.
Instead
of
saying
you
can't
operate
and
operate
here,
I
think
there's
creative
ways
to
go
about
this,
that
benefit
everybody
and
without
violating
any
sort
of
property
rights.
B
I
This
is
dave.
I've
got
a
couple
at
least
get
started
sure
based
on
some
of
the
comments
that
have
come
up
through
this.
I
think
we
finally
got
the
owner's
attention
and
it's
kind
of
interesting,
that
it
gets
down
to
limiting
the
use
of
the
property
or
restricting
some
things
as
that's
what
it
took,
but
seeing
how
that's
where
we're
at
and
I'm
all
about
solutions.
I
think.
I
Hopefully
we
can
work
toward
some
a
kind
of
a
win-win
situation
here,
but
there's
developers
downtown
that
are
spending
millions
of
dollars,
building
multi-family
apartments
and
opening
restaurants
and
businesses,
and
I
think
the
wilson's
ought
to
get
on
board
with
those
people
and
make
them
aware
of
what
they're
wanting
to
do
and
they
want
to
be
a
good
citizen
of
the
east
village
as
well,
because
I
think
they've
been
negligent
based
on
just
the
evidence.
That's
been
presented
today.
I
My
initial
thought.
As
far
as
the
sound
goes,
I'm
inclined
to
revoke
any
sound
on
the
patio
up
above
zero
and,
if
there's
a
new
tenant,
let
them
come
in
and
present
why.
We
should
permit
that,
and
I
I
would
suggest
that
before
any
of
that
occurs
that
they
meet
with
the
people
across
the
street,
they
meet
with
some
of
the
other
developers
in
the
area
that
were
named
in
the
paper
and
let's
try
and
get
these
people
to
work
through
this
together,
because
what
we
could
do,
I
think
you
could
just
review
revoke.
I
J
I
I
don't
like
punishing
my
kids
either,
but
I
do
hopefully
that
that's
going
to
change
some
behavior
and
it's
going
to
get
some
people's
attention.
So
we've
spent
way
too
much
time
talking
about
this
over
the
last
12
months
and
it
suanne
recognized
another
time
that
it
came
up
five
years
ago.
So
I'd
be
inclined
to
try
and
work
to
some
sort
of
a.
I
That
would
require
some
pretty
hands-on
involvement
by
the
owner,
as
well
as
their
prospective
tenant
with
the
property
owners
and
the
residents
around
the
area,
and
I'm
I'm
pretty
staunch
on
having
zero
sound
outside
for
the
foreseeable
future,
because
I
think
we
eliminate
one
of
one
of
the
variables
that
we
continue
to
talk
about
and
we
continue
to
measure
and
we
continue
to
debate-
and
maybe
maybe
that's
just
not.
Maybe
that
doesn't
belong
at
this
property.
So
I'd
be
interested
in
what
everybody
else's
comments
are
and.
B
G
This
is
lynn
carlson.
I
totally
agree
with
dave's
comment
about
no
sound
on
the
patio
at
all.
I
would
also
maybe
be
interested
if
other
people
thought
about
having
no
liquor
saw
served
on
the
patio.
Somebody
might
want
just
a
quiet
place
to
talk.
I
just
think.
Sometimes
when
you
get
the
liquor
voices
get
raised
and
they
from
comments,
I've
read
the
voices
carry
across
the
street.
I
know
they
do
where
I
live
so
make
the
rooftop.
Just
you
know
no,
no
liquor,
no,
no
sound.
G
Property
owner
the
wilsons
need
to
meet
with
the
neighborhood
association
at
least
four
times
a
year,
so
once
a
quarter
with
reports
from
the
association
on
the
results
of
the
meeting
being
sent
to
suanne
or
somebody
else
designated
that
they
just
check
off.
G
You
know
on
the
first
very
course,
like
january
1st
march,
whatever
go
on
the
months
that
they've
met
with
them
and
the
results,
and
I
think
that
if
they're
aware
of
that,
she
wants
the
property,
she
has
run
it
in
the
past,
but
we
need
to
ensure
that
she
is
staying
involved.
I
mean
I'm
a
person
who
is
coveted
bound.
G
I
stay
home
because
I
am
high
risk
and
I
knew
about
the
shots,
so
I'm
not
like
in
the
bar
scene
or
anything
else,
and
I
found
it
totally
astounding
that
she
was
not
aware
of
something
that
severe
in
her
own
property.
So
I'd
like
to
see
that
written
into
the
conditional
use
permit
rather
than
a
good
neighbor
agreement,
because
if
she
violates
that,
I
just
want
that
revoked.
You
know.
It's
kind
of
this
is
the
last
straw.
C
L
C
Is
justin
gross.
C
Thank
you,
my
fellow
board
members.
I
think
there's
a
little
disconnect
here
from
the
the
the
owner.
Here
I
mean
they
were
put
on
notice
back
in
2019
that
the
property
needs
to
be
managed
differently
when
it
is
not
owner
occupied
and
they
failed
to
heed
this
warning,
and
I
think
if
we
don't
revoke
today,
we
would
have
to
really
consider
amending
the
conditional
use.
As
dave
pointed
out.
I
agree.
No,
no
sound
on
the
patio.
C
I
think
the
idea
of
of
the
week,
the
quarterly
you
know,
meeting
quarterly
with
the
neighborhood
organization
or
association,
would
be
important.
I
I
think
also
you
know,
I
think
it's
beholding
on
the
land,
the
owner,
to
get
those
call
logs
weekly
to
be
more
informed
of.
What's
going
on
in
that
property,
you
know,
I
know
one
of
the
reports
mentioned
that
there
was
no
cameras
in
the
place.
I
thought
that
was
just
shocking
and
I
don't
know
if
we
can.
C
You
know
this
may
be
a
question
for
legal,
but
you
know
I
don't
know
if
we
can
do
some
sort
of
one
one,
one
more
strike
and
you're
out
sort
of
revocation.
You
know
if
this
comes
again
to
the
board
that
it's
almost
you
know
a
certain
revocation
of
the
conditional
use.
So
those
are
my
thoughts.
Thank
you.
B
Thank
you,
justin.
Anybody
else
want
to
add
anything.
D
N
B
H
Well,
I
I
don't
want
to
say
what's
already
been
said,
but
I
did.
I
did
notice
when
su
suan
was
speaking.
Her
comment
was
that
the
owner
should
take
the
lead
on
managing
their
property,
and
I
thought
that
was
very
succinct
and
pretty
much
said
it
all
for
these
past.
I
don't
know
five
years
the
city's
been
managing
this
property
and
we
need
to
get
it
turned
around.
So
we
need
to
take
whatever
steps
we
can
take
to
get.
It
turned
around
yeah.
B
Very
well
put
from
from
my
perspective,
I
have
served
on
this
board
for
some
time
as
some
others
have
and
whether
somebody
has
served
a
short
time
or
a
long
time.
Everybody
has
great
observations
on
all
our
cases,
but
I
remember
when
this
started,
I,
the
wilsons,
have
had
an
ownership
interest
in
this
property
for
more
than
15
years,
when
we
issued
that
rooftop
patio.
If
you
want
to
call
it
that
in
2010
the
conditions
were
clear
there
weren't
supposed
to
be
amplified
sound
up
there
background
levels
of
conversation.
B
We
have
plenty
of
conditions
who
was
all
of
that
issued
to
from
the
original
conditional
use
permit.
It
was
issued
to
the
wilsons,
so
they
knew
the
basic
tenet,
the
constitutional
approach
to
how
a
conditional
use
permit
worked
and
what
was
expected
of
that.
So
in
2019
they
had
a
different
tenant
in
there.
B
B
But
that's
when
we
drew
the
line
in
the
sand,
there
was
a
second
strike.
I
specifically
remember
saying
I
do
not
want
you
back
here.
The
city
wants
to
revoke
your
tavern
conditional
use.
Permit.
We
don't
want
to
do
that
to
you,
but
it's
like
giving
the
keys
to
the
car
to
the
kid
on
prom
night.
Don't
crash
the
car.
I
said
if
you're
back
here
again,
it's
going
to
be
bad
news,
so
even
with
that
warning
with
the
owner
present
there
or
aware
of
what
was
going
on
there,
what
do
we
have
now?
B
B
So
that's
our
third
strike,
I'm
done
with
this
place.
The
owners
know
better.
The
owners
had
the
original
conditional
use
permit.
The
conditions
have
been
throughout.
There
was
nothing
brought
forward
by
the
owner
or
their
attorney
that
they
have
the
conditions
of
the
conditional
use
permit
written
in
their
lease
agreements,
one
way
or
the
other.
Sorry.
You
can't
answer
that
now
everybody
looks
so
forward
to
the
garden.
B
Well,
guess
what
nobody
was
here
today
from
the
garden
to
speak
on
behalf
of
the
owner
of
the
conditional
use,
permit
the
hope
that
we
didn't
revoke
that.
I
don't
know
if
they're
just
sitting
in
the
background
waiting,
but
I'm
tired
of
it,
and
you
know
there
was
a
little
phrase-
george
bush
messed
it
up.
I'm,
hopefully
not
gonna
fool
me.
One!
Shame
on
you!
Fool
me
twice.
Shame
on
me!
I'm
not
going
to
have
that
again.
I
am
not
going
to
support
continuing
with
this
conditional
use
permit.
B
So
if
my
colleagues
choose
to
do
so,
they
can
put
a
motion
forward
to
do
that
with
appropriate
conditions
they'd
like
to
see,
but
that's
not
something,
I'm
going
to
support
so
for
further
discussion
here.
Staff
is
recommending
revocation,
so
I'm
going
to
go
ahead
and
make
a
motion
for
revocation
of
the
conditional
use.
Permit.
B
D
D
B
B
Okay,
well,
we've
we've
heard
that
issue.
The
owners
can
follow
up
with
city
staff
to
get
a
copy
of
this
decision
in
order,
so
we
have
a
number
of
other
items
that
we
need
to
give
attention
to
on
our
agenda.
Today,
item
number
nine
was
removed.
A
A
A
A
You
can
see
of
the
four
signs.
One
of
the
signs
would
be
for
the
river
plaza
sign,
which
would
designate
the
or
identify
the
entire
building.
This
site
is
known
as
the
river
plaza
and
then
the
other
three
signs
would
each
identify
a
certain
function
of
the
joppa
entity
that
would
occupy
these
spaces.
A
A
A
I
wish
I
would
have
taken
a
better
photo
of
this
monument
sign,
but
just
for
I
wanted
to
point
out
that
there
is
an
existing
monument
sign
along
euclid
avenue.
A
This
monument
sign
would
be
considered
legal
non-conforming
since
it
exists
today
they
would
not
be
allowed
to
add
any
new
freestanding
monument
signs,
since
the
property
is
owned,
f,
but
they
are
able
to
swap
out
sign
faces
on
this
existing
sign,
so
they
could
put
the
tenant
on
this
existing
directory
sign
here,
a
few
more
photos
you
can
see,
there's
currently
only
one
other
wall
mounted
sign
on
this
building
and
that's
for
a
church
that
would
be
just
to
the
west
of
the
three
tenant
bays
that
joppa
the
applicant
would
occupy.
A
A
A
H
A
Yeah-
and
I
will
maybe
let
suen
speak
to
that,
but
right
now,
the
way
the
code
is
drafted.
It
does
not
allow
for
any
signage
for
a
property
in
the
flood
district.
So
to
get
around
that
or
to
change
that
it
would
have
to.
It
would
take
a
code
amendment.
It
would
need
to
be
vetted
by
the
plan
and
zoning
commission
and
then
ultimately
approved
by
city
council.
B
Okay,
bert,
I
have
a
related
question
to
that
is
one
of
the
reasonings
behind
not
allowing
signage
is
in
essence.
We
we
don't
want
to
see
uses
in
a
flood
plain,
expand
further
or
become
more
entrenched.
Is
the
idea
that
eventually,
you
know
with
a
high
chance
of
flooding,
we'd
like
to
see
these
things
like
not
be
there.
L
A
No
other
reasons
yeah.
I
think
you
hit
the
nail
on
the
head
that
the
intent
of
the
flood
district
regulations
is
so
that
the
existing
uses
there
would
eventually
phase
out
and
it
would,
you
know,
resort
to
or
convert
to
more.
I
guess
just
flood
plain
uses
like
parks
and
open
space,
so
I
think
the
regulations
are
intended
to
not
prolong
any
commercial
uses
in
the
flood
district.
B
Okay,
all
right
would
would
you
say
bert,
for
active
commercial
properties
in
a
in
a
flood
district.
Is
this
kind
of
a
rare
occurrence
in
des
moines.
A
But
it's
a
tough
one,
but
prior
to
2009
or
2019,
our
flood
districts
were
really
limited
to
the
major
rivers
along
the
major
rivers.
However,
in
2019
we
took
the
we
used
the
creation
of
the
new
zoning
map
as
an
opportunity
to
get
our
flood
districts
to
match
the
fema
designated
100
year,
floodplain,
which
I
personally
think
is
the
way
that
it
should
be.
I
think
we
need
to
have
the
flood
district
match
the
fema
designated
flood
plain.
B
A
So
I
do
know
we
have
this
this,
the
properties
on
both
sides
of
euclid
avenue.
Here,
and
I
know
we
have
some
others
on
hubble
avenue,
where
we
have
existing
commercial
properties
that
are
now
zoned
flood
district.
C
Mr
chair,
I
have
a
question
for
bert
go
ahead.
Thank
you
bert.
You
mentioned
across
the
street.
I
mean
isn't
across
the
street.
Polk
county
has
quite
a
few
organizations
out
of
there.
A
Yeah-
and
that
was
all
that
all
predated
2019,
so
it
was
installed
in
accordance
with
the
zoning
regulations
that
were
applicable
at
that
time.
Sure,
okay,
but
you
can
see
from
the
map
here.
The
blue
line
represents
the
flood
district.
So
everything
on
the
north
side
of
euclid
in
this
area
is
also
zone.
Flood
district,
okay,.
B
Invert
you'd
you'd
mention
and-
and
I
don't
think
your
intent
was
malicious,
but
you
had
said
they
got
around
the
sign
ordinance
by
putting
stuff
you
know
in
or
behind
the
windows.
Now
it
is
legal
to
put
signage
behind
your
windows.
If
you
want
to
affix
you
know
sticky
letters
with
your
address
your
name
of
business
or
hours,
that's,
okay!
Right
as
long
as
it's
on
a
what
a
translucent
window
and.
B
A
Yeah,
I'm
going
to
look
real
fast,
I'm
not
so
sure
that
those
window
signs
are
allowed,
though.
A
A
B
Okay,
all
right,
then,
what
we'll
do
we'll
go
ahead
and
hear
from
the
applicant
the
person
who's
applying
for
the
variants,
I'll
just
need
their
name
and
address,
and
they've
got
up
to
10
minutes
to
address
the
board
with
the
reasoning
for
their
appeal.
B
Yeah
noah,
if
you're
on
zoom
just
yeah,
can
folks
hear
me:
okay,
yep,
we
just
need
your
full
name
and
your
appropriate
address
and
you've
got
up
to
10
minutes.
Thank.
U
You,
sir,
I
appreciate
that
again,
my
name
is
noah
tabor
t-a-b-o-r
and
I'm
a
volunteer
with
joppa.
My
home
address
is
1606
northwest
college
avenue
in
ankeny
iowa
I'll,
be
brief.
In
my
comments
I
have
some
other
folks
with
joppa
and
the
property
folks
as
well
on
zoom
today,
so
they
can
certainly
fill
in
more
detail.
U
Mr
chair
on
the
board
thanks
so
much
for
the
time
to
speak
today
on
this
important
issue
really
appreciate
staff,
giving
a
good
kind
of
primer
on
this
topic,
as
was
alluded
to
by
members
of
the
board.
In
the
conversation,
this
is
just
not
a
great
solution
to
a
problem
here
that
the
ability
this
building
exists
signs
should
be
available
to
have
reasonable
use
for
this
building.
While
it
exists,
I
think
there's
certainly
a
hardship
as
joppa
works
to
serve
the
underserved
homeless
population
in
des
moines.
U
I
think
having
signs
is
a
wonderful
way
to
live
into
japan's
mission
and
the
mission
of
the
city
to
provide
resources
for
these
individuals.
I
think
a
mere
sign
or
name
on
a
monument
sign
is
not
sufficient
for
the
folks
that
we
are
trying
to
serve.
They
are
often
transient,
they
are
commuting
via
bus.
U
Why
are
we
putting
more
hurdles
in
front
of
these
tender
iowans
to
find
the
resources
that
they
need
not
to
select
other
businesses
of
commercial
use?
But
this
is
not
simply
going
to
a
salon.
This
is
not
simply
going
to
a
pet
store.
This
is
not
simply
going
to
a
tavern.
These
are
folks
seeking
assistance
for
food
for
health
care
for
job
resources.
I
think
it's
pretty
important
to
appreciate
what
these
signs
are
attended.
Do
we
have
read
the
code?
We
understand
the
code.
U
We
understand
the
owners
provisions
that
we
must
meet,
but
in
looking
at
what
is
reasonable
in
the
situation.
What
are
the
hardships
in
the
situation
again?
I
think
allowing
us
of
variance
to
have
our
signs
up
in
the
guess.
While
it
is
a
flood
plain
or
yes,
there
are
new
city
oranges,
allowing
us
this
variance,
because
without
these
signs,
these
buildings
are
for
us
is
ineffective,
that
even
if
it's
a
window
sticker
on
you
know
on
the
inside
of
a
window,
our
folks
need
to
see
loudly
where
they
can
come
for
help.
U
We
shouldn't
trust
that
they
caught
an
eye
glimpse
quick
passing
on
a
bus.
I
think
this
is
important
for
missional
work
for
joppa
and
for
the
city,
so
we're
asking
for
an
equitable
solution.
I
this
is
my
first
time,
speaking
to
this
board,
I
have
listened
all
day.
You
are
all
good
problem.
Solvers,
you
help
think
outside
the
box.
I
appreciate
that.
That's
a
wonderful
mark
of
you
all.
U
U
With
that,
I
will
stop
rambling
here
and
I'd
like
to
recognize
and
mr
chair,
you
certainly
can
run
the
run.
The
order
things
but
joe
stevens,
the
president
and
ceo
of
joppa,
can
speak
more
about
the
missional
work
that
they
do
and
I
think
joe
would
have
some
good
perspectives
for
you
all
to
hear
from.
B
What
what
what
I
would
say
on
that,
if
you're,
through
with
your
testimony,
we
can
have
those
speaking
support,
they
can
have
up
to
five
minutes
a
piece.
The
the
main
thing
that
this
board
is
interested
in
is,
is
the
provisions
of
the
city
ordinance,
the
applicability
of
the
ordinance
to
the
site
and
the
in
the
specific
issue
at
hand,
so
yeah.
U
B
U
Yeah
certainly
certainly
again
kind
of
in
in
kind
of
a
quick
conclusion
of
my
kind
of
opening
comments
again
looking,
I
know
it's
a
high
standard
kind
of
what
kind
of
what
reasonable
value
a
reasonable
return
could
be.
Had
it's
so
important
to
have
these
signs
for
what
the
work
that
we
look
to
do
again.
This
is
not
this
is
you
know
a
commercial
space
which
is
beyond
commercial
use
for
us,
and
I
know
that
I
know
you
know
I
work
at
the
capitol.
I
know
the
code.
U
I
know
we're
kind
of
dealing
with
we
work
in
structures,
but
working
through
the
exceptions
working
through
the
leeway
and
the
variance
is
possible.
Is
it
important
for
us
the
building
exists
as
it
does
now
and
while
we
work,
I
appreciate
the
city's
interest
in
trying
to
phase
out
or
curtail
kind
of
expanded
use
in
flood
plains.
U
We
are
kind
of
between
rock
and
hard
place
with
being
newly
zoned
as
a
flood
plain,
even
though
the
building
hasn't
flooded
in
you
know,
100
years
and
the
new
city
ordinance
is
saying
you
know
no
signs
in
that
place.
That
just
kind
of
puts
us
in
an
unfair
spot
and
again
we
are
looking
for
an
appeal
to
be
granted
to
kind
of
help,
rectify
this
imbalance.
But
yes,
happy
to
take
questions.
Mr
chair.
B
Okay,
all
right
well,
noah,
I'm
I'm
assuming
that
you're
one
of
a
number
of
tenants
in
the
building
so
and
I'm
not
sure
that
we'd
be
able
to
do
this.
But
there
already
is
a
sign
up
at
the
right
of
way
for
people
to
see
by
bus
or
or
if
somebody
was
going
to
drop
them
off
or
if
they
are
homeless
and
they're
walking
down
the
sidewalk
they'd
see
that
monument
sign.
B
U
So
I
don't
think,
that's
sufficient.
I
think
I
I
appreciate
kind
of
the
role
of
a
monument
sign,
but
again
I
think
it's
important
to
remember
the
tender
population
that
we
serve
and
the
challenges
that
they
have
in
transportations.
The
challenges
they
have
with
health
care
needs
in
terms
of
being
able
to
see
and
commute,
and
things
like
that,
I
think
it's
important
that
we
don't
put
further
barriers
in
front
of
them.
I
think
in
a
standard
situation
a
monument
sign
perhaps
would
suffice.
H
U
B
L
B
V
Great,
this
is
joe
stevens
2326
euclid
avenue
des
moines,
iowa
50310
we're
in
that
same
building
location.
If
you
look
there
we're
in
that
part
that
says
joppa
over
the
on
your
screen
over
the
river
plaza,
as
well
as
off
to
the
right,
the
homeless
resource
center,
and
thank
you
all
for
your
expertise
and
for
your
the
time
you're,
taking
to
consider
this
exception
or
variance
we.
We
were
located
in
east
village
for
10
years
and
we
did
recently
move.
We
moved
just
before
covet.
V
V
This
project
is
absolutely
critical
to
joppa,
japanese
and
organizations
whose
goals
and
alliance
are
in
alignment
with
the
city's
goals,
as
well
as
the
county's
goals,
and
both
the
city
and
county
support.
Our
efforts
to
help
in
homelessness,
as
well
as
our
plans
for
this
particular
location
and
so
jop,
is
in
the
process.
V
We've
already
helped
over
450
individuals,
since
we've
started,
get
off
the
streets
and
we're
we're
still
at
over.
85
percent
remain
off
the
streets,
and
so
we
have
a
system
that
includes
aftercare.
That
includes
all
the
the
right
wraparound
services
to
be
able
to
help
people
get
and
stay
off
the
street,
and
this
is
our
effort
to
have
a
a
one-stop
shop,
and
so
the
number
of
homeless
people
in
the
area
is
surging
right
now
you
guys
have
probably
seen
it
as
you
drive
around
on
the
streets.
V
Joppa
is
in
its
13th
year
and
I've
never
seen
more
homeless
people
on
the
streets
than
I
see
now,
and
so
we've
been
trying
to
get
the
data
around
that
we
do
a
lot
of.
I
can
give
you
more
more
data,
but
here's
here
are
a
couple
stats
that
you
might
find
interesting
out
of
the
125
people
that
we
interviewed
that
are
homeless,
that
we
interviewed
in
the
last
60
days
of
last
year.
V
32
of
them
40
individuals
were
first-time
homeless
due
to
covid
we're,
seeing
we
were
already
seeing
an
increase
in
homeless
people
due
to
the
affordable
housing
crisis
before
covet
hit,
and
that's
just
exacerbated
the
situation.
Eric
burmeister
from
the
polk
county
housing
trust
fund
can
tell
you
that
he
and
and
angie
are
down
there
fighting
evictions
and
there's
literally
hundreds
of
them
on
the
dockets
every
week
and
they're
fighting
the
good
fight,
but
but
we're
not
winning
in
all
those
cases
so
we're
having
so
many
people
evicted.
They
need
to
know
where
to
go.
V
They
need
to
know
about
this
place
and
word
of
mouth
will
catch
on
once
they
see
the
signage,
but
there's
no
way
for
us
to
advertise
to
people
that
are
on
the
verge
of
homelessness
or
experiencing
homelessness.
So
this
is
really
partly
prevention
and
it's
partly
also
giving
those
folks
the
resources,
so
they
can't
discover
and
find
us
without
a
sign,
and
the
city
of
des
moines
really
needs
this
resource
center.
Now,
not
sometime
in
the
future.
V
After
we
go
through
some
other
alternative
process
or
something
and
then
hopefully
prevail
at
a
later
date.
So
we
simply
can't
open
and
operate
this
new
resource
center
without
a
sign.
V
Secondly-
and
I'll
be
brief,
we're
opening
the
what
we
call
thrift
mart
right
next
door,
which
you'll
see
on
the
sign
there,
which
is
a
wholly
owned
non-profit,
store
to
provide
the
community
with
a
high
quality
thrift
store,
as
well
as
provide
a
sustainable
source
of
funding
for
joppa
and
job
training,
as
well
for
the
for
the
homeless
resource
center,
and
this
is
a
thrift
store
that
will
be
paying
sales
tax.
V
V
And
you
know
all
these
are
privately
funded,
non-profit
ventures
that
are
intended
to
provide.
You
know
that
that
we're
intending
to
provide
and-
and
you
know,
as
well
as
the
potential
loss
of
the
you
know
some
or
all
of
our
investment
that
we
put
into
this
location.
So
I'm
you
know,
I'm
I'm
very
concerned
on
a
side
note.
The
existing
marquee
sign,
mark
marquis,
sign
out
by
the
road
that
was
mentioned
is
not
lit.
It
does
contain
four-inch
lettering.
That
is,
you
know.
V
You
can't
see
it
when
you're
traveling
westbound
from
across
the
way
and
you'd
have
to
be
looking
for
it
and
it's
probably
not
safe
to
be
looking
for
it
if
traveling
eastbound.
So
we
just
no
one
will
know
we're
there.
They
won't
be
able
to
find
us
and
a
sign
behind
the
window.
You'd
have
to
already
be
in
the
parking
lot
like
you
said
to
be
looking
for
us
at
that
point.
We're
trying
to
get
people
to
discover
us
and
to
get
the
the
neighborhood
know
that
we're
there
and
providing
these
resources.
V
So
you
know
the
that's
the
real,
that's
the
real
issue.
The
bottom
line
is
that
we
simply
can't
operate.
You
know
we
can't.
We
just
can't
open
either
venture
much
less
successfully
operate
them
without
signage,
and
so
this
location
becomes
pretty
much
worthless
to
joppa
without
the
signage,
and
so
I
know
the
landlords
have
contributed
to
our
to
our
build
out
and
we've
had
a
number
of
private
investors.
V
Mid-American
energy
has
contributed
150
000
to
this
venture,
and
you
know
I
can
give
you
more
details
I'll
be
happy
to
answer
questions,
but
we
need
your
help,
and
so
thank
you
all
for
your
consideration.
C
Mr
chair,
this
is
justin
gross.
If
I,
if
I
can
yeah,
go
ahead,
all
right,
thank
you
joe.
You
said
you've
been
in
this
location
since
march.
2020
is
that
right.
V
We
well
so
joppa
has
previously
been
about
outreach,
and
so
we
go
part
of
you
know
what
our
organization
historically
has
been
has
been
going
out
and
that
when
we
operated
from
east
village
we
weren't
allowed
to
have
clients
at
our
location.
So
this
is
something
new
we,
you
know
we'll
have
people,
you
know
that
have
heard
we're
there
stop
by
and
knock
on
our
door,
but
no
we've
not
been
able
to
to
operate
at
this
location.
V
With
this
new
we've
never
had
landlords
willing
to
allow
us
to
have
a
homeless
resource
center
or
to
allow
folks
experiencing
homelessness
to
come
into
our
facility.
So
you
know
this
is
brand
new
and
we
do
operate.
V
You
know
our
outreach
out
of
the
back
part
of
the
facility,
but
being
able
to
open
the
front
part
which
we've
you
know
invested
in
a
bathroom,
and
I
can
tell
you
you
know
phone
charging
stations
and,
like
I
said,
caseworkers
computer
stations
we're
ready
to
go
and
we
just
cannot
and
we're
not
able
to
do
that
without
without
the
signage.
I'm
not
sure.
If
did
I
answer
your
question.
No.
V
B
All
right
joe,
this
is
mel
pins
here.
Just
a
a
general
question.
I
realize
you're,
not
the
property
owner
here,
but
I
I
know,
there's
a
number
of
tenant
bays
here
to
the
best
of
your
knowledge.
You
know:
are
there
a
lot
of
vacancies
in
there?
Does
a
lot
of
this
property
kind
of
sit
under
utilized?
What's
been
your
general
vibe
of
what
you've
seen
since
you've
been
there.
V
And-
and
I
believe
the
building
owners
will
be
speaking
here
a
little
bit,
but
I
I
my
understanding
is
we've
taken
the
last
space.
The
thrift
mart
was
the
last
space
in
the
building
and
it's
fully
occupied
now.
V
I
can
tell
you
broad
lawns:
is
there
and
there's
a
another
social
services
type
organization?
At
the
other
end,
I
believe
they're
called
one
side.
I'm
sorry,
that's
flipping
my
mind
right
now
and
of
course,
vineyard
church
is
right.
Next
door
and
everybody
everybody
in
the
building
is
supportive
of
what
we're
trying
to
do.
B
All
right
any
other
questions
for
joe
all
right.
Okay,
is
there
anybody
else
who
wishes
to
speak
in
support
of
the
applicant's
request,
hit
the
raise
hand,
function
and
zoom
or
star
9
on
your
phone?
Who
do
we
want
to
recognize
there
bert.
J
We
go
and
can
people
hear
me?
Yes,
sir,
thank
you
for
for
this
opportunity
to
visit
with
you.
My
name
is
kevin.
Kraus,
5601,
hickman
road,
suite
number
three
here
in
des
moines,
and
I
am
one
of
the
owners
of
the
building
another
owner-
is
also
on
the
phone.
That's
the
degree
of
interest
we
had
in
this
and
the
support
we
have.
We
totally
support
what
has
been
said
before
we're
very
excited
to
have
job
in
our
building.
J
We
really
feel
that
if
they
are
unable
to
have
these
signs,
they
would
not
be
and
not
be
able
to
lease
these
spaces.
That
would
be
a
financial
detriment
to
us.
We
like
to
have
the
building.
You
know
they
have
about
20
000
square
feet,
which
is
about
a
fourth
of
the
building,
and
that
really
allows
us
not
as
a
matter
of
really
having
a
more
profitable
use,
but
but
just
being
able
to
get
to
a
profitable
use.
J
You
know
it's
difficult
to
operate
a
building
when
you
have
that
much
empty
square
footage
and
it
was
empty
for
quite
a
period
of
time.
It
is
a
difficult
location,
but
this
location.
So
much
matches
japan's
mission
and
we
have
committed
our
resources
in
terms
of
tenant
improvements
to
help
them
in
their
situation.
J
We
also
we
want
to
maintain
the
building.
You
know
we
think
the
building
is
in
very
good
shape.
We've
put
tremendous
money
in
the
parking
lot
in
painting
the
building
so
that
it
looks
good
from
the
street.
We
think
these
signs
are
are
where
previous
signs
were
located,
where
signs
are
intended
to
be
on
this
building
or
if
the
building
was
10
blocks
down,
they
would
have
signs
in
these
locations.
J
While
the
building
has
been
now
classified
in
the
flood
zone.
I
would
make
the
comment
that
we
we
hit
the
flood
zone
by
inches.
I
think
it's
only
like
two
or
three
inches
that
were
within
this
flood
zone.
We
have
not
flooded
our
ownership
group,
we've
owned
the
building
since
2002
and
we
have
not
had
any
flooding.
We
are
not
aware
of
any
flooding
prior
to
our
ownership.
J
We
know
we
are
a
little
bit
higher
than
across
the
street
where
polk
county
is
where
they
did
experience
some
fighting
in
the
past.
But
we
think
this,
this
signage
is
so
critical
to
what
they
need
to
do
and
what
we
want
to
be
doing
with
them,
and
we
we
would
really
respectively,
request
you
to
consider
providing
us
a
variance.
G
Kevin
this
is
lynn
carlson.
You
said
you've,
you
put
some
money
into
it
because
it
does
not
look
like
it
used
to
when
I
was
going
through
there,
so
you
have
put
a
considerable
amount
of
resources
into
upgrading
it.
Making
it
look,
nicer
is,
and
so
when
was
that
done,
and
also
were
you
aware
of
the
flooding
across
the
street
in
93
and
was
this
building
affected
in
that?
So
those
are
my
two
questions.
J
Thank
you.
It
was
not
affected
in
93,
while
we
may
look
like
we're
a
comparable
side,
comparable
height
wise.
We
are
actually
sit.
The
building
sat
above
the
500
year,
flood
plane
as
it
was
when
it
was
designed.
As
far
as
improvements
gone,
probably
roughly
five
six
years
ago,
we
spent
almost
a
quarter
of
a
million
dollars,
putting
a
new
roof
on
the
building.
I
mean
that's
one
of
the
things
that
we
kind
of
commit
to.
We
operate
our
buildings
that
we
would.
J
You
know
we
want
to
operate
them
in
a
in
a
safe,
secure,
clean
manner.
We've
also
replaced
concrete.
We
probably
spent
probably
close
to
250
300
000
on
on
new
concrete,
the
approaches
off
the
street
and
we're
doing
it
with
you
know
concrete
that'll
last
longer,
not
you
know
not
just
doing
patching
there's
there
is
work
to
be
done.
I
will
admit
that
I
mean
you
look
at
the
picture
we're
looking
at
now.
There
is
some
cracking
and
things
I
mean
it's
one
of
these
things.
J
We
can't
do
everything
in
a
single
year
back
to
operating
it
on
a
profitable
manner
by
having
japan
being
able
to
have
them
will
allow
us
to
do
additional
projects
to
continue
to
have
the
building
be
a
a
strong
presence
there.
One
of
the
things
we
did
we
had
a
very
the
monument
sign
was
probably
about
a
twenty
thousand
dollar
sign.
And
previously,
if
you
recall
there
was
a
tall,
probably
a
20-foot,
it
wasn't
an
attractive
sign
at
all,
but
it
did
a
very
good
job.
J
I
mean
because
it
was
so
big,
but
we
again
we
thought
this
was
one
of
the
things
we
said
that
one
isn't
that
one
wasn't
attractive,
so
we're
trying
to
continually
invest
money
to
make
it
attractive
on
the
site
and
for
tenants.
B
Kevin
this
is
mel
pins.
Here,
the
city
staff
photos
are
generally
taken
from
the
public
right
of
way,
so
so
they're
not
unduly
on
private
landowners
property,
but
I'd
I'd
like
to
get
a
better
feel
for
the
whole
building
here.
B
How
many
tenant
bays
are
there?
Do
those
tenant
bays
have
signage
above
their
entrances?
I
mean
from
from
this
picture.
I
just
I
can't
even
tell
how
many
entrances
there
are
taking
japan's
mission
aside
here.
Do
you
I
was
surprised
to
hear
that
basically
you're
you're
fully
leased
out.
So
do
you
have
tenants
who
don't
have
signage
on
their
building
and
and
and
is?
Is
that
hindering
them
kind
of
help
describe
the
property
and
who
has
certain
age
and
who.
J
Certainly
well
I'll
tell
you
that
the
building
again
has
a
large
parking
lot
here.
It
was
originally
built
as
an
ardans
back
in
the
day,
and
so
it
does
have
probably
a
larger,
like
I
say,
a
large
parking
lot
that
takes
a
lot
to
take
care
of
on
the
end.
We
have
broad
lawns
and
they
do
some
patient
billing
and
then
they
also
have
their
wic
program
there.
J
They
have
active,
they
have
a
sign
on
the
street,
but
they
actively
do
not
want
a
large
amount
of
signage
because
they
don't
want
people.
You
know
what
they
see
broad
lawns.
They
may
think
you
know
that
they
have
drugs
or
something
else
there
and
the
their
focus
space
does,
you
know,
is
where
they
serve
their
their
customers
and
they're
closest
to
the
river
coming
towards
us
would
be
modern
bike
which
you
saw.
They
have
an
internal
sign.
J
They
did
the
internal
sign
more
from
a
cost
effectiveness
versus
choosing
to
put
one
on
the
the
site.
Their
business
is
probably
about
80
to
90
percent
internet
sales
versus
walk-in
traffic.
So
it's
not
as
important
for
them
to
have
the
signage
as
a
destination
customer
got
it.
Then
the
middle
is,
is
joppa
again
we're
talking
there
that
they're
more
of
a
destination
location
and
then
vineyard
church
does
have
the
signage
that
you
see
in
this
picture
and
then
on.
The
the
end
is:
is
a
organization
called
new
site
and
they
have
specific?
J
You
know
after
school,
youth
counseling,
you
know
they
are
not
in
need
of
signage
again.
Also
because
they
are,
you
know
they
don't
have
walk-in
traffic
or
any
type
of
things.
So
yes,
it's
you
know
this
will
be
the
first
time.
You
know
that
we
will
be
fully.
You
know
we
we
had
the
vacancy,
probably
for
for
seven
or
eight
years,
which
again
it's
really
like.
I
say
the
difference
between
being
able
to
pay
the
bills.
When
we
have
the
vacancy.
J
You
know
our
insurance,
our
snow
plowing,
our
property
tax,
our
our
our
mortgage
payments.
You
know
they
don't
decrease.
So
a
lot
of
our
bills
stay
the
same
and
so
by
being
able
to
attract
the
tenant,
we're
able
to
do
the
things
to
to
make
the
building
attractive
and
a
positive
aspect
of
the
neighborhood
right.
B
B
K
Hi
everyone-
this
is
miranda
castans
again
with
chestnut
signs
at
971,
northeast
broadway
avenue
des
moines,
iowa
50313.
Thank
you
for
listening
to
me
again
today.
I
appreciate
it
just
I'm
mostly
here
to
answer.
If
you
have
any
questions
about
the
sign,
I
do
believe
that
kind
of
my
thoughts
are.
K
K
It's
more
there
just
to
identify
when
people
kind
of
get
there
that
there
are
these
patrons
in
the
in
the
place,
but
they're
they're,
fairly
small
letters
again
when
they
put
that
sign
in
they
were
trying
to
come
down
from
a
giant
sign
to
something
more
attractive,
something
that
fit
in
the
corridor
a
little
better.
And
so
I
wouldn't
say
it's
going
to
direct
people
to
the
various
tenant
bays.
K
It's
going
to
be
very
hard
to
identify
where
japan
is
where
terrific
mart
is
where
homeless
resource
center
is
because
when
all
those
cars
are
in
that
parking
lot,
you
can't
see
those
windows,
so
the
window
vinyl,
while
it
isn't
a
solution,
isn't
really
a
very
viable
solution
for
this
particular
property.
If
it
was
a
building
that
had
two-story
windows
that
you
could
advertise
above
that
could
be
seen.
L
S
This
is
jack
sullivan
and
I'm
5601
hickman
road
with
bp
real
estate
group.
I'm
also
one
of
the
owners
of
river
plaza
along
with
kevin,
and
we
have
owned
the
building
for
quite
a
few
years
and
have
consistently
done
a
lot
of
improvements
to
the
property
when
we
bought
the
property.
It
was
in
a
in
a
relative
state
of
disrepair
and
the
neighborhood
at
that
time
had
target
across
the
street
and
then
polk
county
moved
in
and
did
a
significant
amount
of
renovation
to
their
building
and
stabilized
the
north
side
of
euclid.
S
And,
as
you
know,
there
is
a
good
deal
of
incentive
to
see
improvements
along
euclid
and
while
we
don't
necessarily
disagree
with
the
overall
ultimate
goal
of
where,
where
they
would
like
to
go
with
euclid
in
the
interim,
which
we
hope
is
many
years,
is
that
this
is
a
large
parcel
that
has
a
significant
amount
of
mental
impact
on
people
about
what
it.
The
quality
of
the
area
is
for.
Other
retailers
that
are
slightly
up
the
hill.
With
the
with
the
loss
of
val
lanes
up
the
street.
S
That's
obviously
impacted
the
area
and
it's
our
goal
to.
As
miranda
indicated
to
make
the
center
because
it
is
so
large,
have
a
a
vital
and
attractive
presence
to
the
community.
In
addition,
obviously,
to
what
joppa's
mission
is
kevin
spoke
to
the
fact
that
the
other
tenants
and
what
kind
of
signage
they
have,
as
as
he
alluded
to
broad
lawns
functions
that
are
there
are
more
destination
driven,
as
are
the
vineyard,
the
new
site,
modern
bike
being
80,
some
percent
on
internet.
S
They
don't
necessarily
need
a
lot
of
lot
of
walk-in
traffic,
but
they
have
a
very
nice
facility
from
a
distribution
standpoint
vineyard
church.
Their
sign
was
critical
to
their
success
and
they
said
numerous
times
it
had
they.
If
they
had
not
been
able
to
get
that
signed,
they
had
a
great
deal
of
fundraising
inside
of
their
church
to
get
that
line.
S
S
So
the
thrift
mart
is
a
retail
location,
the
same
as
any
other
retail
location
across
the
city,
and
it
does
require
good
visibility
and
vibrancy
to
be
seen,
and
we
just
kind
of
feel
that
the
that
river
plaza
is
in
is
in
the
in
the
flood
zone,
but
it
does
still
exist
and
it
does
provide
a
significant
anchor
to
the
whole
euclid
avenue
corridor,
and
I
feel
that
that
not
only
is
that
beneficial
to
the
city.
It
creates
a
great
deal
of
tax
base
to
the
city
as
well
as
sales
tax.
S
S
That's
the
the
net
of
it
is
that
we
want
to
see
japan
successful
and
when
java
japan
is
successful,
we
are
successful.
And
if
we
are
successful,
the
city
of
des
moines
is
successful
in
in
increasing
property
valuations
in
the
area
and
so
forth,
we're
very
willing
to
take
that
risk
of
the
cost
of
signage
and
so
forth
too.
We
have
flood
insurance
and
so
forth.
S
So
we
appreciate
all
of
your
time
and
your
insight
to
how
the
city
of
des
moines
manages
its
signages
and
and
properties,
but
we
feel
we
kind
of
have
a
unique
situation
here
that
we
just
need
your
assistance
with.
So
that's
all.
I
have.
B
Okay,
all
right.
Anybody
who
wants
us
to
speak
in
neutrality,
about
applicability
of
signage
in
a
floodway
district
on
this
property,
okay,
see
none
all
right.
Do
we
have
any
questions
for
city
staff
board.
B
B
All
right,
hey
bert,
I'm
I'm
gonna
throw
one
at
you.
I
don't
want
to
dig
too
deep
into
this,
but
since
this
is
a
floodway
zone-
and
I
know
the
ordinance
is
new
here
for
some
changes,
but
generally
with
zoning
in
a
flood
zone,
if
the
building
was
damaged
by
fire
or
flooding
and
they'd
have
to
pull
a
building
permit
and
cost
to
repair
rebuild
was
more
than
I
think
40
or
60
percent.
No,
it
wasn't
allowed.
So
would
the
same
thing
apply
here
now
under
the
current
ordinance?
B
B
A
L
A
O
B
O
B
O
I
I
believe
that,
under
the
non-conforming
status,
it
does
allow
people
to
do
repairs
and
to
to
maintain
the
stability
of
the
building.
So
I
believe
that
would
be
okay,
like
the
rook
that.
B
B
Okay,
so
as
long
as
they
don't
expand
the
footprint
or
add
a
second
story
or
it's
not
unduly
damaged
through
fire
flooding,
then
yeah
they
could
continue
to
kind
of
kind
of
keep
things
ship
shaped
there
to
meet.
Needs
of
tenants,
correct,
absolutely
all
right,
all
right,
any
other
questions
for
staff
and
and
suanne.
Do
you
have
any
comments
yourself
with
zoning
enforcement
officers.
O
Actually
chair
members
of
the
board-
I
do
so
I
the
one
thing
I
will
point
out
is
that
we
can
no
longer
regulate
signage
based
on
content
and
a
lot
of
the
arguments
today
were
content-based
that,
with
all
due
respect
to
joppa,
then
their
mission,
their
signage,
would
be
no
different
than
a
hair
stylist.
When
you
talk
about
signage
allowed
signage,
because
you're
not
gonna,
allow
signage
based
on
content,
so
they
have
to
meet
the
variance
test
without
talking
about
content,
and
I'm
not
sure
that
they've
reached
that
threshold.
O
I
I
will
say
that
in
reviewing
this
and
reviewing
the
code,
I
think
staff
is
willing
to
go
back
and
make
amendments
to
signage
in
the
floodway
to
allow
signage
that
was
recently
removed
from
the
code.
It
does
seem
rather
odd
that
you
have
a
commercial
building
in
a
floodway,
and
you
can't
you
can't
get
signage
signage,
isn't
going
to
extend
the
life
of
the
building
necessarily
all
by
itself,
so
that
that's
the
balancing
act
between
exp,
allowing
continuation
of
illegal
non-conforming
and
allowing
it
to
be
used
while
it
it's
viable.
O
So
my
suggestion
would
be
that
they
get
six
month
temporary
signage
and
help
staff
work
on
supporting
an
ordinance
change
to
allow
signage
in
a
floodway.
O
B
Related
to
that,
the
signage
that
was
presented
by
miranda
to
the
best
of
the
city's
knowledge,
if
this
wasn't
in
a
floodway
district,
would
the
signage
as
presented
normally
meet
or
requirements
for
the
limitations
on
size
and
placement,
and
all
that
would
it
have
normally
been
approvable
as
presented.
O
K
K
K
Yeah
we
did
try
to
design
within
the
neighboring
zones
and
things
like
that,
so
that
we
weren't
trying
to
push
for
something
that
was
unreasonable.
O
B
O
B
I
B
Nope,
that's
a
good
clarification,
dave!
Okay,
any.
G
Go
ahead,
I
know
this
would
be
susanne
or
if
it
would
be
judy,
but
you
recommended
giving
temporary
signage
and
going
to
city
council
to
change
it.
We
grant
them
the
variance
for
this
with
the
provision
that
would
fit
ordinary
sign
provisions,
which
miranda
always
said,
does
and
then
give
a
recommendation
to
the
city
council
to
examine
this
using
this
as
an
example,
but
go
ahead
and
give
the
people
permission
to
go
ahead
and
get
started.
B
Yeah
yeah
lynn,
you
you've
got
a
very
good
line
of
well
hey.
How
do
I
unravel
this
this
issue?
But
yes,
any
time
we
want
to
grant
a
variance
in
making
the
motion
you'd
have
to
give
your
your
reasoning
and
again
that
variance
test.
It's
a
very
strong
one,
but
if
the
board
felt
there
was
a
good
enough
reason
for
a
variance
and
that
passed,
then
then
it
it
would
be
approved.
Of
course
somebody
could
decide
to
challenge
that
in
court.
B
B
Okay,
seeing
none
the
appellant,
you
get
three
minutes
for
closing
comments
or
a
rebuttal.
It
can
be
one
of
you.
I
know
we
have.
You
know
we
have
joppa,
we
have
property
owners,
but
it's
a
three
minute
in
total.
So
if
you've
got
somebody
who
can
speak
best
on
this,
I'm
guessing,
maybe
that'd
be
noah
and
miranda
we've
already
recognized
you
so
unless,
unless
you're
going
to
lead
the
three
minutes
here,
I'd
I'd.
Ask
that
you
take
your
hand
down.
V
V
I
we
have
greg
he
volunteers
for
joppa
and
we
have
great
volunteers
and
so.
V
That
way,
all
right,
so
we
do
just
a
couple
of
comments.
We
do
have
a
permit
for
construction.
We
are
investing
750
000
in
the
facility
where
edge
construction
is
our
construction,
company
and
they're
doing
the
can.
The
general
contracting
pro
bono
and
mike
simonson
did
all
of
our
architectural
work
and,
and
we
did
work
with
the
city
to
get
the
proper
permits
and
we're
nearly
complete.
So
we've
already
invested
the
money.
V
I
don't
know,
as
I
understood
it,
the
the
proof
for
the
variants
is,
is
hardship
right
and
the
inability
to
operate
so
I
mean
I
can't
I
don't
know
if,
if
we're
just
not
communicating
well,
but
we
simply,
we
we
can't
open
this
store
and
and
with
you
know,
the
thrift
mart
store.
We,
a
temporary
sign,
you
know,
is
going
to
be
more
cost
and
more
delay
and
and
then
you
know,
I'm
not
sure
what
that
allows.
V
But
you
know
I'm
picturing
a
banner
or
something
temporary
that
that's
just
not
going
to
work
for
a
new
store.
That's
going
to
make
it
look
like
it.
You
know
like
it's
not
viable,
it's
not
the
not
the
kind
of
experience
that
this
brand
is
going
to
have
when
it
launches
so
we're
just
not
going
to
be
able
to
launch
with,
and
that's
going
to
delay.
You
know
that
just
really
it
it
it
pretty.
V
Much
makes
our
whole
model
and
our
whole
business
plan
untenable,
and
so
that
will
cause
us
to
need
to
go
back
to
kevin
and
jack
and
talk
about
you
know.
Can
we
undo
this
lease
and
what
will
they
do
in
that
case?
And
then,
where
do
we
go
to
put
this
store?
In
the
meantime,
it's
just
not
possible
to
operate
without
the
sign
so
and
as
far
as
homeless,
people
finding
us.
V
You
know
if
the
if
the
temporary
sign
were
big
enough,
you
know,
maybe
they
could
find
us,
but
again
we're
wanting
people
to
drive
by
to
to
discover
us
to
talk
about
the
fact
that
we're
there
for
both
ventures
and
and
to
want
to
come
and
visit,
and
I
I
just
don't
know
how
I
would
feel
about
visiting
a
place
with
a
temporary
sign.
You
know
that
that
claims
that
they
can
help
me
it
just
it's
just
not
what
we're
going
for
here.
V
V
I
don't
I,
I
would
like
to
think
that
we
have
met
the
proof
of
hardship
for
the
variants
and,
if
you,
if
there
is
a
possible
way
that
you
could
grant
us
to
go
forward
with
the
signs
as
designed
and
then
you
know,
we
will
be
help.
V
We
would
be
glad
to
work
with
the
city
or
to
go
to
meetings
and
help
promote
the
you
know
the
reasoning
behind
how
the
code
needs
changed
or
whatever
you
you
guys
are
recommending,
but
we
really
need
to
put
this
signage
in
place
as
designed
in
order
to
carry
forward
with
our
plans
and
and
otherwise
we
are
in
serious
trouble.
So
yeah.
V
So
I
I
hope
that
we've
proven
that
met
that
that
hardship
or
variance
requirement
and
I'd
be
happy
to
answer
any
additional
questions.
B
Okay,
well,
this
was
about
closing
rebuttals,
so
so
you
got
to
wrap
it
up.
So,
thank
you,
sir.
Thank
you.
Yeah
we'll
go
ahead
and
close
the
public
portion
here
and
go
to
board
deliberation
so
folks,
you
know
this
this.
This
could
be
a
straight
up
straight
down
thing
on
variances.
B
It
could
be
with
a
variance
you've
got
to
meet
the
strict
test
and
we
may
be
able
to
briefly
discuss
related
or
or
separately.
If
we
would
like
to
ask
the
city
to
take
some
other
action
to
review
applicable
city
ordinances,
we
always
have
that
right
to
do
that
in
our
training.
This
morning
I
was
reading
ahead.
B
The
chair
can
even
call
a
special
meeting
cool,
so
I
would
say:
let's
focus
on
the
issue:
we've
got
at
hand,
which
should
just
be
my
discussion
suggestion,
and
then
maybe
we
could
talk
about
some
additional
things,
but
those
are
just
my
initial
thoughts
about
approach,
not
not
not
the
merits
of
the
case,
so
thoughts
from
you
all.
I
I
I
think
they
presented
a
pretty
good
case
and
I
think
what
this
sign,
based
on
their
mission
and
based
on
what
they've
explained,
is
they're
trying
to
create
a
sense
of
arrival
for
a
a
pop
part
of
the
population
that
needs
a
lot
of
help,
there's
more
projects
going
around
town
other
than
what
job
is
doing
to
try
and
help
assist
and
and
deal
with
this
homeless
situation.
So
the
fact
that
the
county's
got
a
building
across
the
street-
that's
grandfathered
in
I
feel
like
these
guys
are
stuck
based
on
a
timing
issue.
I
I
We
need
to
do
let's
let
them
put
their
sign
up.
I
I
think
that
I
don't
think
this
is
that
that
this
is
that
big
of
a
deal,
let's
not
get
them
bogged
down
in
the
current
city
ordinance.
Let's
have
the
council
review
this,
but
as
we've
done
previously
with
signs,
this
is
not
a
one.
Size
fits
all
right.
I'm
not
opposed,
and
we've
made
some
tremendous
improvements
to
this
sign
ordinance
and
I'm
kind
of
talking
out
of
both
sides
of
my
mouth
a
little
bit,
because
I
vote
both
ways
on
this.
I
I
B
Joppa's
mission
is
extremely
important,
but
the
zoning
ordinance
does
not
look
again
at
the
content
of
the
signage.
It
looks
at
the
applicability
of
the
signage
in
the
context
of
the
zoning
ordinance.
So
whether
this
is
dotty's,
donuts,
dressmaker
or,
let's
say
mel's
hobby
shop
wants
to
go
in
there
would
a
variance
be
reasonable
to
allow
a
sign
on
that
building,
based
on
the
variance
test.
G
B
C
Okay-
and
I
know
there's,
I
think,
there's
marvelous
after
me,
but
I
I
just
want
to
say
yeah
I've
been
aware
of
java
for
many
years,
and
I
know
they
they
do
good
work.
But,
as
mel
pointed
out,
we
have
to
focus
on
the
variance
criteria,
and
I
mean
we
are
in
a
tough
spot.
The
f
designation
seems
to
be
very
harsh,
but
we
are.
We
are
as
board
members
bound
by
the
the
variance
criteria
and
and
to
to
joe's
question.
C
You
know
he
would
have
to
show
or
prove
that
the
owner
has
been
deprived
of
all
beneficial
or
productive
use,
and
that
is
not
met
here.
So
I
would
be
inclined
to
to
say
no
to
the
variants,
but
I
do
want
to
help-
and
I
think
the
suggestion
by
suanne
donovan
to
allow
for
a
six-month
temporary
signage
and
then
direct
legal
to
amend
the
f
designation
to
allow
signage
would
be
the
the
proper
avenue
here.
Thank
you.
Yeah.
G
G
The
owners
have
put
a
lot
of
money
into
it,
maintaining
it
improving
it
and
it
looks
as
good
or
better
than
any
other
commercial
strip.
Mall
other
strip
malls
are
allowed
signage
and
therefore
I
think
this
one
should
be
allowed
the
proper
signage
and
we
should
give
them
the
time
to
do
it
right
now,
immediately,
rather
than
wasting
more
time
having
the
city
council
changing
rules
and
having
to
go
through
the
expense
of
temporary
housing.
G
H
This
is
cindy,
and
I
I
tend
to
support
dave's
comments
in
that.
I
believe
that
they've
made
they've
made
their
point
for
meeting
the
variants,
yep,
yep
and
and
we've
you
know,
like
you
said,
mr
chair
initially
earlier
today,
that
you
know
we
need
to
look
at
every
case,
because
every
case
has
different
merits.
B
Okay,
well,
I'm
gonna
round
the
bend
here
a
little,
so
the
variance
test
is
a
tough
one
and
it's
there
for
a
reason,
but
I
I
see
a
case
like
this
one
with
the
potential
to
meet
the
variance
test
for
a
number
of
reasons.
B
First
of
all,
I
I'm
not
going
to
be
a
constitutional
like
lawyer
here,
but
but
I
think
the
the
legal
intent
of
the
flood
district
was
stretched
a
little
too
far
here,
with
an
ordinance.
That's
pretty
draconian,
as
it
has
been
stated.
Expanding
a
use
with
new
construction
would
not
be
a
good
idea
in
the
zoning
ordinance.
That's
not
allowed
repairing
a
building.
That's
been
flooded
or
damaged
by
fire
by
over
50
percent.
That's
also
not
allowed,
because
that's
not
a
smart
thing.
B
We
we
don't
want
to
see
those
kinds
of
investments
but
prior
to
december
19,
this
property
was
a
shopping
center
commercial
district
zoning.
That
kind
of
zoning
would
have
certainly
allowed
for
tenant
signage
above
those
tenant,
bays
and
those
major
entrances
on
the
facades
of
the
building,
and
I
know
it
was
converted
to
a
flood
zone,
but
the
general
use
of
the
property
was
for
that
kind
of
commercial
retail,
and
when
we
look
at
the
variants
it
says
the
land
in
question
cannot
yield
a
reasonable
return
from
the
uses
permitted
on
the
property.
B
While
the
uses
are
commercial,
he
said
they
had
seven
eight
years
before
they
even
got
a
tenant
in
there
and
they
sound
like
very
nice
owners,
they're,
probably
being
too
nice.
A
lot
of
the
tenants
they've
got
are
probably
they're,
probably
giving
them
a
break
on
rent
or
it
probably
the
amount
of
square
footage
being
charged.
Isn't
very
much.
I
doubt
whether
they're
making
much
money
on
this
place,
but
I'm
not
here
to
argue
for
that.
B
What
I
would
say
is
we're
going
way
out
of
line
if
we
won't
allow
a
person
who
pays
100
commercial
taxes
on
a
building
to
be
allowed
to
have
a
commercial
sign.
I
I
I
kind
of
think
we're
throwing
common
sense
out
the
window
if
they
had
a
whole
bunch
of
pole
signs
and
wanted
a
huge
sign
and
miranda
wasn't
designing
it
within
parameters.
B
B
B
And
just
as
a
friendly
thing
cindy
bit
before
your
your
second
would
would
you
want
is
a
condition
that
the
signs
must
only
be
installed
to
meet
comparable
city
requirements
in
comparable
commercial
districts
based
on
size
and
scope
of
the
building?
So
in
other
words,
they
don't
come
at
us
for.
A
B
When
we
get
through
with
our
agenda
items,
I've
got
the
ability
to
to
ask
that
and
we'll
ask
city
staff
what
we
have
to
do.
B
This
board
wrote
the
letter
with
counselor
chairman
bill,
gray's
signature,
to
ask
the
city
to
implement
a
monument
sign
ordinance
and
to
get
rid
of
the
poll
signs
allowances
so
that
that
was
an
action
that
this
board
took.
I
think
there
was
support
from
staff
in
the
council,
but
but
we
in
essence
pulled
the
trigger
on
that
request.
So
I
think
we
can
do
that,
but
we
can
do
that
under
a
separate
item.
B
So
so
there's
a
motion
by
dave,
second
by
cindy
to
approve
the
variants,
with
condition
that
that
that
any
signage
must
meet
standards
in
other
districts
based
on
size
and
scope
of
the
building
judy
since
you're
on
our
side
of
the
bench
here
advising
us
and
we're
in
discussion
and
potential
voting
here.
P
Yes,
I
I
appreciate
you
putting
some
direction
in
there,
because
just
creating
a
variance
without
any
direction
is
it's
going
to
be
very
difficult
to
figure
out
what
you
meant.
So,
yes,
that
should
be
fine.
Okay,.
B
D
D
D
L
B
B
Okay,
good
discussion
by
all
and
what
I
would
say
here
for
our
gang
from
joppa
give
staff
until
next
week
to
put
that
decision
in
order
together,
but
then
you're
probably
going
to
want
to
sit
down
with
them
and
your
sign
designer
and
and
talk
through
this.
So
so
from
that
perspective
they
should
be
happy.
So
that'll
move
us
on
now
to
item
number
eleven.
F
F
Let
me
here
we
go
ariel
identifying
the
subject:
property
on
the
southeast
corner
of
the
eastern
hubble
avenue
intersection
a
site
contains
two
buildings
with
multiple
tenant
bays
the
signage
along
easton
avenue.
F
Photographs
of
the
property.
There
are
three
pole
signs
on
the
property.
Currently,
this
medicap
monument
sign
is
actually
on
the
parcel
to
rejoins
it.
But
the
subject:
property
is
these
kind
of
strip
buildings
you
see
and
there's
three
or
excuse
me
hole
signs.
The
subject
one
is
the
is
in
the
middle
of
the
site.
F
Then
the
last
sign
it's
a
little
hard
to
read,
but
there
actually
is
signage
there,
and
then
I
have
some
photographs
from
the
code
enforcement
documenting
that
the
scion
face
was
not.
There
was
nothing
on
sign,
it
was
not
being
used.
This
is
december
of
2019,
both
sides
of
the
sign
and
then
december
of
2020,
the
applicant
or
the
application.
F
I
have
a
few
things
from
that
to
share
with
you
and
we
can
come
back
to
if
needed,
but
this
particular
pull
sign
in
the
middle
of
site
is
has
been
utilized
for
the
space
empty
space.
That's
in
the
building
had
been
occupied
by
auto
repair
business,
the
auto
repair
business.
In
2018
there
was
an
enforcement
action.
There
had
been
complaints
that
there
was
inoperable
vehicles
and
outdoor
storage
as
staff
visited
the
site
and
did
its
due
diligence.
We
found
that
the
use
I
did
not
have
rights
to
be
there.
F
The
property
at
that
time
was
zoned
c1,
which
does
not
did
not
allow
auto
repair
with
the
adoption
of
the
new
code.
The
mx3
zoning
does
allow
it,
but
in
2018
it
was,
I
believe
they
by
the
end
of
the
year,
the
tenant
had
left
the
site.
You'll
recall
that
this
new
zoning
code
in
the
map-
you
know
we
worked
on
that
adoption
in
2019
without
coming
to
conclusion.
F
Our
reports
and
review
the
exception
to
time
period
also
has
this
extra
criteria
that
we're
supposed
to
keep
in
mind
that,
in
addition
to
the
kind
of
the
standard
language
and
that's
discontinuous
of
the
use,
was
due
to
unique
circumstance
not
of
the
property
owner's
own
making,
and
that
resumption
of
the
use
will
not
alter
or
excuse
me
will
not
have
a
significant
adverse
impact
on
the
essential
character
of
the
surrounding
area.
So
these
two
criterias
have
to
be
met
in
addition
to
the
other
ones
that
we're
accustomed.
F
F
F
Impact
do
have
response
map.
B
F
B
It's
probably
very
near
the
right
of
way,
so
you
know
to
reduce
visual
clutter.
If
the
pole
sign
came
down
and
a
new
monument
sign
was
even
put
in,
I
would
gather
the
monument
sign
would
probably
be
be
set
back
a
little
further
than
the
current
sign
is
now.
B
Yeah,
okay,
cool
no
big
deal
on
that
one,
any
other
questions
for
jason.
B
Okay,
all
right!
Well,
next
up
is
the
applicant
they've
got
up
to
10
minutes
to
address
the
board
to
give
the
reasoning
for
their
appeal
to
keep
their
poll
signed.
That
must
be
blake.
B
W
Thank
you
board,
chair
and
board
for
your
considerable
time
in
considering
our
appeal
for
an
exemption.
We
know
it's.
I've
listened
to
this.
You
guys
put
a
lot
of
thought
into
all
of
these,
so
thanks
a
lot
and
on
a
volunteer
basis,
so
we're
applying
for
an
exemption
based
on
a
type
2
of
this
and
I'm
going
to
address
each
one
of
the
two
points.
A
and
b
here,
a
discontinuance
of
the
use
was
due
to
a
unique
circumstance,
not
of
a
property's
owner's
own.
Making.
W
The
loss
of
our
sign
was
a
very
unique
situation
in
that
the
property
zoning
was
changed
for
our
property
to
a
c1.
At
some
point,
if
you
look
at
the
property,
it
has
a
three-bay
garage
in
it
for
light
auto
repair,
that's
how
it
was
built
in
1970.
That's
what
the
zoning
allowed
at
some
point.
The
zoning
changed,
and
we
did
not
know
that.
W
So
we
were
sent
notice
in
2019
in
the
non-conforming
use
and
we
wanted
to
appeal,
but
we
couldn't
find
any
prospective
tenant
that
would
pay
the
7
000
to
appeal
the
use
and
might
likely
lose
it
in
talking
with
some
city
folks.
So
without
the
zoning
change,
we're
faced
with
losing
that
part
of
the
building
and
our
tenant
advanced
auto
had
to
kick
that
tenant
out,
advance,
auto
repair
who'd
been
there
a
long
time.
W
The
sun
was
running
anyway,
so
advanced,
auto,
vacated
that
because
they
didn't
even
know
if
they
could
use
that
part
of
the
building
we
looked
at,
we
were
losing
a
part
of
our
asset,
then
in
2020
or
in
2019.
The
zoning
map
was
changed
as
you
all
just
referred
to
and
we
got
zoned
mx3,
but
we
had
no
idea
as
the
owner.
No
information
was
sent
to
us.
We
were
not
notified
of
this
now.
Mx3
allows
for
light.
Auto
repair
use
we're
thrilled.
W
So
this
is
way
beyond
the
six
months,
and
I
don't
know
if
the
zoning
change
took
over
six
months,
but
we
had
no
way
of
knowing
so
this
was
a
very
unique
circumstance
and
that
our
zoning
was
changed
to
allow
our
building
to
use
it.
That
pull
sign
is
just
for
that
that
space
right
there,
so
we
believe
proper
notification
should
have
been
sent
to
us.
W
I
think
if
you're
a
building
owner
and
our
file
is
on
record
our
address,
it's
easy
to
find
our
phone
number
we've
talked
to
the
city
inspectors
many
times,
they're
very
helpful,
but
we'd
had
no
idea,
and
we
think
there
was
a
legal
obligation
of
the
city
to
inform
us
of
a
zoning
change.
I
think
if
you
change
someone's
zoning,
they
should
certainly
know
we
appreciate
it,
but
we
feel
like
if
we
lose
this
poll
sign
because
we
weren't
notified.
W
We
think
we
may
have
a
claim
in
court,
although
we
hope
to
go
through
this
board
and
remedy
that
here.
Okay,
so
part
b,
is
the
resumption
will
not
have
a
significant
adverse
impact
on
the
essential
character
of
the
surrounding
neighborhood
you've.
L
W
Four
out
of
five
neighbors
ever
have
voted
for
it.
The
fifth
neighbor
is
maxwell
needham
and
he's
an
auto
repair
facility.
He
has
his
own
pole,
sign
and
he's
300
yards
away,
and
he
competes
with
us
for
that
same
kind
of
business.
So
I
I
would
probably
guess
that
would
explain
why
he
doesn't
want
to
have
competition
or
a
sign,
so
it
doesn't
deter
from
the
neighborhood.
W
We
believe,
if,
if
you
put
a
monument
sign
up,
it's
going
to
cost
a
significant
amount
of
money,
and
it's
just
another
sign
that
you're
going
to
have
so
you're
still
going
to
have
three
signs:
we're
an
industrial
property.
It's
an
auto
repair
and
auto
fixing
facility.
It's
a
highly
commercial
corner,
fast
food
center
head
across
the
street.
They
all
have
their
own
pole
signs
and
you
know
we
cover
an
entire
city
block
and
length
over
250
feet,
so
we
don't
think
there's
clutter
with
three
signs.
W
Finally,
we
believe
a
city
should
support
its
business.
You
know:
we've
invested
significantly
in
this
property
since
we
purchased
it
from
an
outer
outer
state
owner
who
was
just
trying
to
develop
it
into
something
else.
We
put
in
new
roof
new
hvac.
We
did
the
sidewalks
brand
new
sidewalks
out
there,
so
we
put
considerable
amount
in
there
and
new
facade
on
there.
W
So
tearing
down
a
sign
and
having
to
put
up
a
20,
40
50
000
monument
sign
is
it's
a
remedy,
but
it
tears
away
from
our
ability
to
invest
in
other
things
in
the
property.
There's
a
lot
of
vagrancy
in
the
neighborhood
we've
had
to
pull
up.
You
know
we
have
to
deal
with
that
as
well,
and
I
sure
appreciate
your
job
personally.
So
thank
you.
So,
finally,
we
know
and
then
also
there's
been
a
lot
loss
of
a
lot
of
retailers.
W
Gorman's
down
the
street
kmart
and
kmart
is
now
going
to
be
a
storage
facility
getting
rid
of
and
not
supporting
these
businesses
that
add
to
a
service
to
the
neighborhood
and
bring
people
in.
I
think
it
hurts
and
tears
away
from
you.
Thank
you
for
your
time
and
consideration.
That's
all
yield
to
mike.
W
Thank
you
for
your
question.
We
have
four
interested
parties.
We
just
found
out
about
this
december.
You
know
just
last
month
that
we
allowed
them,
so
we
are
waiting
to
get
their
sign
as
well
as
get
them
signed
up.
So
we
have
many
interested
parties
now
that
we
know
the
zoning
has
changed.
L
B
B
W
Mel
thanks
for
the
question
we
were
sent
a
notice
of
from
the
inspector
ian
donovan
who
I'm
guessing
sue
and
donovan
relation.
I
would
love
to
find
that
out
anyway,
we
got
this
notice
that
we
were
facing
a
violation,
because
the
auto
repair
was
not
allowed
under
c1
light.
Auto
use
grandfathered
in.
W
Correct,
I
honestly
don't
know:
okay
yeah,
you
know
this
was
built
in
1970,
it's
a
three-bay
garage
with
less.
It
was
never
anything
but
auto
repair.
I
I
can't
tell
you.
B
Yeah
so
yeah,
and-
and
I'm
just
I'm
not
here
to
debate
this
with
you
but
but
but
see
c1
are
our
neighborhood-based
businesses.
So
if
that
use
was
not
allowed,
there
was
no
grandfathering
so,
but
nonetheless
the
business
closed.
And
so
then
the
pull
sign
has
sat
vacant.
Correct.
W
Correct
but
it
was
built
by
permit
at
some
point,
so
it
was
certainly
allowed
at
the
time
or
I
don't
know
how
you
could
have
gotten
three
bay
auto
repair
down
there.
B
Right,
but
in
any
zoning
district
in
the
city
pole
signs
are
now
illegal
for
new
construction
and
in
any
zoning
district,
if
sign
is
not
in
if
the
business
is
not
in
current
occupancy,
then
after
six
months,
that
poll
sign
can't
be
grandfathered
in
so
we
still
arrive
at
the
same
conclusion.
There
hasn't
been
a
legally
operating
business
in
there
for
more
than
enough
time.
W
Correct
but
we
were
facing
the
law,
a
unique
loss.
We
were
going
to
lose
the
use
of
that
part
of
that
building.
We
were
looking
at
having
to
basically
gut
it
destroy
it.
So
you
are
correct.
I
mean
that's
why
we're
here
it
was
vacant
for
six
months,
but
we
were
trying
to
find
a
way
to
fight
this
appeal
of
to
allow
that
to
be
used.
So
we
were,
you
know,
sort
of
miffed
at
how
we
could
even
use
our
facility,
our
asset
anymore,.
B
Okay,
all
right
well,
blake.
Thank
you
for
your
comments,
we'll
see
who
else
is
in
the
audience
here
and
then
we'll
come
back
to
you.
Do
we
have
any
speakers
in
support
of
the
request
by
the
applicant.
O
Am
on
mute?
Thank
you.
Okay,
chair
members
of
the
board,
just
to
clear
up
one
question
that
was
asked.
I
am
not
a
relation
to
ian
donald.
L
P
O
If
you
boil
it
down
to
what
what
the
facts
for
consideration
are,
is
that
that
pull
sign
stood
there
unused
for
over
a
year
with
no
nothing
in
it
and
therefore,
under
the
code
it
has
to
be
removed,
and
I
think
that's
the
only
thing
that's
before
us,
the
notification
of
zoning
changes.
We
do
not.
We
did
a
wholesale
rezoning
and
rewriting
zoning
map
and
rewriting
the
zoning
ordinance.
It
was
made
public
in
numerous
ways
over
at
least
a
three-year
period
of
time.
O
That
was
what
we
that
was
the
way
we
did
it.
We
did
public
outreach,
we
did
news,
we
did
all
sorts
of
things,
but
really
the
use
of
that
sign
has
very
little
to
do
with
with
the
zoning
of
the
property
it
has
to
do
with
actually
putting
in
using
the
sign
face
for
some
activity
in
the
building.
O
O
B
B
Going
once
going
twice:
okay,
all
right!
Well,
blake!
You
can
wrap
this
up.
You
get
the
last
save
for
testimony.
You've
got
up
to
three
minutes
for
any
rebuttal
or
closing
comments.
You'd
like
to
make.
W
Thank
you.
Thank
you
suanne
to
answer.
I
I
don't
live
in
des
moines.
I
don't
get
the
des
moines
paper,
so
I
have
no
way
of
knowing
as
an
owner
our
company
didn't.
So
there
was
no
way
of
knowing
for
us
the
zoning
change.
There's.
L
W
N
W
Our
lease
and
that's
just
a
commercial
operation
and
in
in
contract
law
in
the
specific,
unique
circumstance
here,
is
that
our
zoning
changed,
which
we
we
were
didn't
know
if
we'd
have
known
sooner,
we
wouldn't
have
left
it
unused
for
six
months
again,
we
didn't
find
out
until
december
of
2020,
and
here
we
are
on
the
next
exact
meeting
asking
for
this
so
and
then
again
there
are
pole
signs.
W
I
know
that
they're,
not
what
everybody
wants,
but
they
do
advertise
a
business
and
if,
if
we
start
losing
our
advertising
capabilities,
it
does
hurt
the
business.
Thank.
B
You
so
thank
you
for
your
time
all
right.
Thank
you,
blake,
okay,
all
right,
then
we'll
close
the
public
portion
and
we
will
go
to
board
deliberation
so
folks.
What
do
you
think.
B
I
Know
I
think
it's
super
convenient
that
the
owner
thinks
that
we
ought
to
be
notifying
him
of
zoning
changes.
He's
got
tenants
in
there.
This
wasn't
a
secret
to
anybody
if
you're
in
the
real
estate
business.
I
think
it
makes
your
business
to
know
what's
going
on
in
the
area
so
that
that
to
me
is
not
an
acceptable
excuse.
I
think
it's
clear
that
they've
not
met
the
requirement.
I
I
think
the
there's
a
huge
movement
on
to
remove
these
pole
signs
and
if
you're,
not
in
compliance,
I
don't
think
there's
any
middle
ground.
I
think
we
just
move
on.
Let's
get
the
sign
down
and
if
they
need
to
make
another
decision
based
on
on
that
and
that
property,
then
I
think
that's
certainly
their
prerogative
but
yep.
I
don't
think
we
need
to
spend
a
lot
of
time
here
reinventing
the
wheel.
L
B
D
This
is
marvelous,
and
you
know
that's
kind
of
on
my
beaten
path
from
and
to
my
house,
and
I
have
gotten
so
tired
of
seeing
that
pole
sign
with
nothing
in
it
and
I
totally
agree
with
dave's
comments.
All
right.
B
B
B
If
they're,
anticipating
changes
in
use
or
activities
on
a
property,
this
board
has
been
pretty
steadfast,
that
the
variance
test
is
a
high
one,
and
poll
signs
are
coming
down
in
the
city
of
des
moines
city
staff,
in
my
opinion,
can
certainly
work
with
the
owner
to
let
them
know.
As
jason
van
essen
said,
they
have
the
ability
to
look
at
monument
signs
or
on
signs
for
buildings.
So
so
I
kind
of
feel
like
some.
Sometimes
you
just
gotta
say
no
and
pull
the
plug
on
these
things.
B
So
if
anybody
else
has
any
other
thoughts
or
if
not,
would
there
be
a
motion
dave
or
marlis?
You
want
to
make
a
motion
I'll
make
a
motion
about
that
all
right
motion
by
day
for
staff
rec.
Is
there
a
second
all?
Second,
okay,
all
those
in
favor
for
denying
the
variance
requests
we'll
take
roll
call.
D
D
L
B
Blake,
the
city
will
send
you
that
decision
and
order
about
a
week
from
now
and
after
you
get
that
I'd,
encourage
you
to
just
just
sit
down
with
city
staff
and
talk
through
options
for
how
you
can
reuse
that
property
and
how
you
can
look
at
signing
here
under
the
current
ordinance,
all
right,
okay.
So
this
moves
us
on
to
minutes
from
the
last
meeting.
I
believe
everybody
was
present
at
our
december
meeting.
B
So
if
there
any
changes,
anybody
wants
to
note
please
comment:
if
there
are
no
changes,
would
there
be
a
motion
in
a
second
to
accept
the
minutes
as
presented.
L
D
D
B
Okay,
now
before
we
adjourn-
and
we
haven't
done
this
for
a
while
and
I'll-
have
judy
and
staff
help
us
here,
but
the
zoning
board
of
adjustment
can
ask
the
city
council
for
consideration,
review
or
propose
changes
in
the
city
ordinance
related
to
our
purviews,
so
staff.
Could
you
maybe
help
us
out
with
this?
I
know
it
was
mentioned
earlier
that
well
maybe
that
floodway
thing
on
the
signage
yeah.
That's
that's!
That's!
Maybe.
P
Or
this
is
judy
parks.
What
your
action
would
be
would
be
making
a
motion
and
then
asking
the
city
council
to
consider
this
as
a
referral
for
revision
of
the
floodplain
signage
provisions,
which
currently
disallow
any
signage
in
that
district.
B
Right
and
and
in
that,
we
wouldn't
have
to
get
into
great
detail,
but
we
could
say
something
like
hey
we'd
like
to
allow
provision
to
allow
signage
and
the
city
could
come
up
with
comparable
language
based
on
the
current
current
use
of
the
property
for
having
some
applicable
signage
allowance,
or
something
like
that.
That's
something.
B
O
A
B
Okay
right,
do
you
have
some
other
new
code
cleanup
which
you
guys
are
going
to
be
doing
anyway
in
the
next
six
months?
Plus?
O
B
Yeah,
but
you
you
could
work
that
that
into
a
council
agenda
item
that
would
in
essence,
be
quote:
cleaning
up
or
fixing
a
few
things
here
and
there.
Yes,
okay,
all
right!
Well,
colleagues,
do
you
have
some
thoughts
on
this?
Do
you
think
this
would
be
a
good
idea,
especially
after
the
case
we
had
today.
G
P
P
It's
going
to
be
hard
for
them
to
figure
out
when
you
look
at
the
amount
of
expansion
of
these
areas
and
to
have
absolutely
no
signage
does
seem
a
bit
drastic.
Yes,.
O
B
Okay
now
and
I
yeah
all
right
but
yeah-
that's
that's
a
good
thought
lynn.
So
if
we
just
have
the
skeleton
here,
the
the
staff
can
flesh
this
out,
because
I
I
think
the
the
reasoning
was
probably
pretty
clear
today,
just
in
in
in
general
that
that
again
you
got
a
big
shopping
center
or
or
any
other
retail
or
reasonable
properties,
and
suddenly
they
can't
have
any.
O
B
Okay,
well
board
members.
We
can
certainly
have
more
discussion,
but
I
guess
I'll
just
throw
out
here.
I
want
to
propose
that
or
I'm
going
to
make
a
motion
that
the
board
would
request
the
council's
review
of
the
applicable
zoning
ordinance
chapter
and
statute
here
as
related
to
disallowing
reasonable
signage
within
a
flood
plain
for
an
existing
use
and
to
amend
that
to
allow
for
reasonable
signage
based
on
applicable
and
reasonable
signage
allowances
for
the
type
of
use.
Currently
there
or
something
like
that.
That
can.
D
O
B
L
B
C
Mr
chair
I'll,
second,
that.
E
Sure
can
cindy
smith.