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From YouTube: 2-3-22 Plan & Zoning Commission
Description
Des Moines Plan & Zoning Commission meeting on Thursday, February 3, 2022.
View the agenda: https://DSM.city/PZatHome
B
All
right,
I'm
gonna,
start
all
right.
Welcome
to
the
february
3rd
2022
meeting
of
the
city
of
planning
and
zoning
commission,
I
will
start
with
reading
the
rules
and
procedures.
The
plan
and
zoning
commission
is
generally
an
advisory
body
to
the
city
council.
The
city
council
will
hold
a
public
hearing
and
make
the
final
decision
on
all
matters
before
the
commission
other
than
site
plans
and
subdivision
plots
unless
denials
or
conditional
approvals
thereof
are
appealed.
Please
contact
the
city,
clerk
or
development
services
department
staff
for
details
on
council
hearings.
B
Applicants
will
be
given
10
minutes
to
present
to
the
public
proponents,
and
then
opponents
from
the
public
are
then
allowed
to
speak
in
that
order
with
each
speaker
allowed
a
maximum
of
five
minutes
applicant
is
then
allowed
five
minutes
for
rebuttal.
The
hearing
will
then
be
closed
and
the
commission
will
discuss
and
vote
on
the
issue.
All
comments
are
to
be
germaine
to
the
item
under
consideration
and
speakers
are
to
maintain
a
courteous
manner.
B
B
A
bunch
of
135s
relating
to
underground
placement
of
utility
transmission
systems
and
related
site
plan,
design,
alternatives
and
site
plan
criteria
relating
to
storm
water
management,
as
in
conformance
with
plan
dsm.
Is
there
anyone
in
the
public
that
would
like
to
have
this
pulled
from
consent
tonight?
B
Item
number
two
is
a
request
from
lawmak
lp
represented
by
jesse
bunny
for
vacation
of
a
portion
of
the
public
right-of-way
adjoining
the
property
at
700
locust
street
and
grant
easement
for
this
vacated
portion
of
the
roadway.
Is
there
anyone
in
the
public
that
would
like
to
hear
this
item
tonight?
B
Item
3
is
a
request
from
eastgate
plaza
llc
represented
by
norman
weinstein
for
review
and
approval
of
a
seventh
amendment
to
the
eastgate
plaza
pud
conceptual
plan
on
1534
east
euclid
ave
to
allow
development
of
a
7500
square
foot
medical
office
building.
Is
there
anyone
in
the
public
that
present
that
would
like
to
hear
this
item
tonight?
B
Anyone
on
the
commission
item
number
three
will
remain
on
consent
item.
4
is
a
request
from
205
land
investments
llc
represented
by
anthony
selsey
for
the
following
regarding
property
at
1106
army
post
road
determination
as
to
whether
the
requested
rezoning
is
in
conformance
with
the
plan
dsm
or
and
rezoned
property
from
rx1
mixed
use
to
mx1
mixed
use
to
allow
the
sale
of
alcohol
at
the
restaurant
without
a
75
foot
separation
requirement.
B
B
A
Chair
members
of
the
commission,
jason
madison
with
the
city's
planning
staff
item.
One
is
a
couple
amendments
to
the
chapter
135,
which
is
our
planning
and
design
ordinance.
The
second
one,
which
is
the
storm
water
management
that
is
a
clean
up
we'd,
actually
had
some
amendments
that
were
done
a
while
back
I've
gone
through
the
process,
and
while
we
were
looking
at
the
code
to
figure
out
how
to
move
forward
on
the
utility
question,
we
recognized
that
there
was
a
cleanup
that
needed
to
occur
there.
A
This
is
go
ahead
and
leave
it
right
there
for
right
now
the
amendments,
the
overhead
utility
question-
you
know
this
is
something
that
we've
been
working
on
for
some
time.
We've
done
a
council
workshop.
I
think
everybody
understands
that
chapter.
135
has
a
standard
right
now
that,
in
short,
requires
utility
burial
with
site
plans,
and
the
only
avenue
for
relief
of
that
currently
is
with
the
planet.
Zoning
commission.
So
all
of
those
requests
have
to
come
here.
Staff
can't
consider
any
of
it
administratively.
A
40
of
those
were
on
consent
agenda
and
about
three
quarters
of
them
were
approved.
So
when
you
have
a
regulation
that
is
frequently
reviewed
or
considered-
and
it's
frequently
approved
it's
it's
it's
something
that
a
staff
we
believe
and
and
the
direction
we've
had
too
from
council-
is
that
we
need
to
go
back
and
look
at
that
and
make
sure
our
processes
are
appropriate
to
what's
coming
before
us.
So
we
can
be
efficient
in
our
reviews
of
development
proposals.
A
A
It
might
be
easier
to
if
you
go
to
the
podium
and
thank
you
so
we're
proposing
to
add
the
ability
for
staff
to
waive
the
requirement.
We
think
it's
a
an
important
requirement
to
to
keep
in
the
code,
but
there
needs
to
be
the
ability
for
staff
to
waive
it
to
save
applicants
from
coming
before
you,
when
the
vast
majority
of
the
time
when
we
have
a
pretty
clear
pattern
of
criteria
that
the
commissioners
use
in
a
pretty
clear
pattern
that
when
that
criteria
is
hit,
the
requests
have
been
approved.
A
A
A
So
what
we've
done
is
you
can
see
that
we're
proposing
that
the
requirement
be
allowed
to
be
waived
if
it
meets
the
following
criteria.
So,
let's
flip
to
page
four,
please
next
page
first,
it
would
be
a
is
it
located
an
underground
district,
that's
designated
by
resolution
by
city
council
that
that's
just
a
really
a
clarification.
There
is
a
sub
group
or
the
core
of
the
downtown
is
a
underground
district.
It's
regulated
and
established
by
a
different
part
of
the
city
code.
A
A
So
we
had
kind
of
put
that
out
to
the
side
acknowledge
that
part
b
is
where
staff
is
looking
at
character
of
the
area.
You
know
what
what
what's
the
surrounding
area
like?
Are
there
a
lot
of
utilities
are?
Are
there
not?
Are
there
few?
Is
it
a
street
state
corridor?
What
kind
of
how
is
the
plan
designated
and
either
move
dsm
or
how's
the
corridor
designated
move
to
sm
or
downtown
connect
downtown
plan?
A
A
You
know
we
just
want
to
think
about
that
character,
exact
same
criteria,
exact
same
things
that
the
commission's
discussed
and
then,
if
you
can
get
through
that
character
question
then
you
get
to
see
which
is
where
we
use
the
following
things,
which
are
the
budget
threshold
that
10
we've
talked
about
that
a
lot
in
our
meetings
you
know:
does
it
exceed
10
percent
of
the
project
budget,
which
we
use
the
construction
budget?
For
that
and
that's
that's.
A
What
we
do
with
other
triggers
in
in
chapter
135
is
rely
on
a
construction
budget
versus
a
project
budget
that
might
have
soft
costs
and
then
two
is
you
know
we
look
at
the
magnitude
of
the
utility.
Is
it
a
major
transmission
line?
You
know
how
feasible
is
it
to
bury
it
then
moving
beyond
that
part,
the
c3
there
is,
you
know
we
look
at
impacts
to
neighbors,
which
the
item
we
had
on
the
consent
agenda.
A
C
C
A
It
says
estimated
budget,
that's
that's
the
practice
we
use
currently
with
chapter
135,
for
instance,
the
site
plan
trigger
for
like,
if
you're
doing,
a
renovation
on
a
building,
if
you
ex,
if
that
renovation
in
of
itself
exceeds
50
percent
of
the
the
building
value,
then
that
triggers
site
plan
compliance
for
the
full
site.
Well,
we
rely
on
permit
value,
so
our
permitting
system
establishes
a
value.
A
In
most
cases,
that's
what
we
will
rely
on
there
are.
There
are
times
when
that's
not
going
to
apply,
or
there
might
be
some
challenges
where
we
would
also
want
to
have
the
flexibility
to
look
at
other
information,
whether
that's
a
bid
from
a
a
contractor.
I
mean
we're
not
going
to
just
take
like
somebody's.
You
know
like
oh
well.
This
is
my
budget.
I
mean
there's
got
to
be
some
evidence
behind
it,
but
that's
the
intent.
I
know
in
that
line.
C
A
I
hate
what
we've
seen
I
mean
kind
of
based
off
of
you
know.
What's
come
before
the
commission
that
negative
impact
is,
is
either
been
a
financial
impact
to
the
neighbor
or
it's
been
a
impact
to
their
service.
So
madame
has
advised
us
that
it's
going
to
just
you
know
either
the
reconstruction
is
large
enough
of
a
time
frame.
That
is
it's
going
to
they're
not
going
to
have
power
for
an
extended
period
of
time
which
might
impact
their
ability
to
stay
open.
A
If
they're
a
business
or
it's,
you
know
it
might
the
quality
this.
I
think
we've
also
heard
from
it
on
a
few
cases
where
there's
concern
that
the
system
won't
be
as
reliable
for
the
neighbors
because
of
the
crossover
it's
a
long
story,
but
most
of
the
time
it's
it's
that
financial
negative
impact
and
then
sometimes
it's
the
delay
of
the
construction
period.
A
B
B
C
D
C
One
of
them-
and
I
guess
I
can
either
first
I'm
happy
moving
staff,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
the
second
motion
is
here
whether
or
not
it's
combined
or
not,
and
I'll
explain
what
it
is
I'll
first
state
what
the
motion
is.
I
would
like
and
then
I'll
actually
explain
why
I
won't
keep
here
all
night.
Don't
worry
so
the
motion
is.
I
would
like
to
move
that.
C
Summary
document
allow
the
subcommittee
to
be
responsible
for
initiating
and
overseeing
research
partnerships
that
evaluate
the
effectiveness
of
tools
vital
to
any
stated
strategy
and
c
require
the
subcommittee
be
responsible
for
hosting
listening
sessions,
where
the
public
comment
could
be
provided
summarized
and
presented
through
a
pnc
meeting
I'll
explain
why,
and
I
can
also
send
you
that
text.
So
it's
not
a
solid
writing
stuff.
So
the
reason
this
is
important,
I
think
I'm
very,
very
excited
this
has
come
through,
because
I
think
this
provides
us
the
ability
to
be
consistent
in
how
we
make
decisions.
C
I
again
incredibly
happy
with
this
one
here.
I
think
it's
clear
guidance,
but
what's
being
proposed,
makes
me
wonder
that
if
we
believe
this
guidance
will
allow
us
to
meet
the
objectives
of
plan
dsm,
what
is
the
strategy
we're
pursuing
to
allow
us
to
believe
that
there's
a
connection
between
the
guidance
and
the
reasonable
expectations?
The
goals
of
the
plan
will
be
achieved
in
the
case
of
utilities.
C
The
need
for
consistent
strategy,
as
we
evaluate
the
proposal
seems
highlighted
by.
I
don't
know
if
anyone
else
saw
today's
west
des
moines
settlement
announcement
with
their
issue
with
mediacom,
so
as
we're
looking
at
expanding
access
to
our
communities
for
broadband
access,
which
the
pandemic
has
identified
across
a
lot
of
our
city
is
absent.
We
know
that
verizon
is
putting
in
lots
and
lots
of
fiber.
We
know
that
our
approach
to
utility,
underground
and
utility
management
will
be
impacted
by
all
these
multiple
other
players.
C
Right
now,
while
we're
focused
on
power,
the
focus
on
broadband
verizon's
network
and
the
reliability
of
mediacom's
investment
struggles
means
we're
going
to
be
clear.
We
need
to
be
clear
what
strategies
we're
pursuing
to
thread
all
these
needles
at
once.
In
order
for
us
to
remain
non-arbitrary,
which
is
you
know,
our
legal
obligation?
C
An
alternative
example
of
this
need
the
reason
I
believe
we
need
to
make
sure
that
as
us,
we
understand
what
the
city
is
attempting
to
pursue,
what
strategies
they
are.
As
these
proposals
come
through,
is
you
know,
as
a
result
of,
for
example,
there's
a
there's
a
meeting
on
november
29th
following
up
the
urban
avenue
douglas
avenue
urban
review
plan,
the
carpenter
review
plan
exhibited
some
of
the
same
challenges,
which
is
it
you
know,
we've
never
completed.
You
know
in
in
this
regard,
we've
never
completed.
C
Nor
do
we
have
sufficient
time
or
resources
to
complete
an
evaluation
of
whether
tif
produces
a
meaningful
return
on
investment,
which
is
very,
very
important
here
for
utilities
as
well.
We
do
not
have
an
articulable
development
strategy
for
whether
when
or
how
we
should
deploy
tools
like
tiff-
and
you
know
it
sounded
like.
We
really
need
direction
from
city
council
through
city
management,
for
any
type
of
a
document
to
identify
what
our
strategy
is
not
saying.
We
don't
have
any
just
saying
if
we
go
say
hey.
What
is
our
strategy?
C
Where
is
it
on
paper
that
we
can
understand
what
we're
looking
to
do?
It
was
clearly
identified
and
that
meaning
that
we
don't
have
one
we-
we
don't
have
an
articulation
of
that
strategy,
so
as
we're
looking
at
starting
throwing
tiff
utilities,
urban
farming
broadband,
all
these
into
the
mix
of
appropriate
land
use
and
project
planning,
no
request
that
waverio
that
we
can
be
seen
as
arbitrary
requires
us
to
understand
what
we
are
intending.
What
is
the
development
department
intending
when
we
approve
these
projects
when
we
say
this
one's
good,
this
one's
bad?
C
What
are
we
trying
to
get
at?
I'm
very
conscious
of
the
fact
that
burning
staff
with
another
task
in
the
face
of
limited
time,
budget
and
community
stability
is
not
reasonable,
while
we
current,
while
the
current
strategies
guiding
staff
actions
have
not
been
summarized-
and
I
know
these
will
change
on
a
semi-annual
basis
in
a
lot
of
ways,
I'm
confident
these
strategies
exist
and
can
be
communicated.
C
If
someone
takes
the
time
to
do
that,
I'm
hopeful
we
can
be
that
source
of
that
time
to
be
able
to
reach
out
understand
what
we're
trying
to
achieve
and
write
it
down
in
a
way
that
we
can
all
be
consistent
in
what
we're
looking
to
achieve
and
make
sure
we
can
actually
have
a
document
that
people
can
start
to
say.
Oh,
I
get
it
when
you
approve
this
one,
I
get
it.
This
falls
in
this
region
when
you're,
you
know
blending
these
two
things
I
get
it.
C
This
is
why
I
would
like
to
ask
that,
and
if
I'm
understanding
process
correctly,
my
understanding
is
what
we
need
to
do
is
ask
for
here.
I
believe
we
can
create
the
subcommittee
as
if
I'm
understanding
the
direction
correctly.
We
can
here
identify
what
that
subcommittee
would
do.
But
then
we
have
to
actually
ask
city
council
to
a
direct
staff
to
actually
work
with
that
subcommittee
and
the
direct
city
can't
have
city
council
direct
the
opportunity
to
gain
outside
outside
feedback.
Is
that
correct?
A
Yeah,
I
I
was
going
to
look
through
the
bylaws,
just
a
double
check
something,
but
I
think
your
what
you
said
in
concept
is
accurate,
that
staff
resources
really
are
directed
by
the
manager
and
the
city
council.
So
you
know
typically-
and
I
think
we've
talked
about
this
in
the
past-
or
maybe
it's
from
a
meeting.
A
But
you
know
the
commission
is
generally
like
when
they
had
a
request
or
want
something
to
be
looked
at,
send
send
a
communication
to
the
council
like
a
letter
that
you
know
we
take
what
the
com
you
know,
there's
an
emotion.
We
want
to
send
a
communication.
These
are
things
we
want
to
talk
about,
staff
will
kind
of
try
to
drop
that
into
a
form,
and
then
you
bring
it
back
for
you
to
vote
on
and
then
the
chair
signs
on
behalf
of
the
commission
and
then
that
gets
sent
to
the
council.
A
A
C
Your
statement
there
is
the
source
of
this
motion.
We
know
there's
a
lot
of
priorities.
We
know
there's
limited
time.
I
mean
plan
dsm
is
written
by
a
dude
in
florida
right
so
I
mean
like.
We
know
that
there
are
things
that
we
just
don't
have
enough
time
or
hours
in
the
day.
To
do.
I'm
saying
we
need
to
know
what
the
strategy
is.
A
C
Had
a
we
had
a
meeting
on
the
29th,
I
asked
you
know.
For
example,
west
des
moines
use
of
tiff
was
very
clearly
articulated
says
west
des
moines.
Use
of
tiff
is
purely
for
infrastructure
expansion.
That
is
one
of
the
two
things
that
use
of
tiff
is
now
identified
as
a
good
practice
to
do
right.
So
they
have
a
clear
strategy,
no
matter
what
they
do.
Tiff
is
used
for
expansion
of
infrastructure.
C
C
I'm
sure
there
must
be
one.
There
was
no
articulable
strategy
that
goes
into
other
things,
with
this
underground.
As
we're
changing
this
guidance,
I
don't
disagree
with
this
guidance.
I
guess
the
question
is:
what
strategy
are
we
implementing
to
the
goal?
If
we
hear
you
state
what
our
theoretical
goals
are
within
plan
dsm
plan
dsm
has
plenty
of
goals
plenty
of
aspirations
playing
plans,
but
how
do
we
actually?
What
strategy
we're
going
to
implement
to
get
that
done?
What
pieces
of
public
and
private
money
are
we
going
to
actually
pull
together?
A
C
I'm
asking
for
at
least
three
to
five
of
us
to
be
able
to
sit
together
and
say
we're
going
to
write
together
a
document
that
says
the
strategies
the
city
development
department
is
attempting
using
to
make
it
make
its
identifying
how
it's
going
to
actually
implement
plan
dsm,
how
we're
going
to
achieve
that
vision
from
we're
going
to
hit
these
goals.
These
are
the
strategies
we're
using.
We
won't
approve
x
if
it's
this
type
of
amount,
because
we
think
this
is
going
to
have
this
effect,
but
an
actual
strategy
document.
A
We
are,
you
know
we
there's
a
goal
in
there.
That
suggests
we
look
at
a
variety.
You
know
variety
ways
to
expand
housing
options,
including
mentioning
ahus
and
we're
working
on
amending
the
code
to
expand
where
those
are
allowed.
So
I
don't
know
that
it's
accurate
or
maybe
I'm
mistaking
what
you're
saying,
but
we
we
are
using
plan
dsm
as
a
basis
to
make
decisions
on
how
we
allocate
staff
time
and
resources
and
the
things
that
we
adopt.
A
So
I
guess
I
don't
know
that.
I
I
mean
the
other
thing
too.
That's
out
there.
That's
on
our
work
program
is
actually
to
re-evaluate
plan
dsm
and
see
what
have
we
achieved?
What's
what's
not
relevant
anymore.
So
that's
already
on
our
work
program.
To
do
that,
I
don't
remember
off
top
my
head
when
we
think
we're
going
to
be
able
to
start
doing
that
I
mean
we.
A
C
I
asked
for
what
is
a
document
that
identifies
the
strategies
that
we
are
implementing
that
are
going
to
help
us
achieve
those
goals,
because
we
don't
have
one
there
isn't
one
published
plan
dsm,
there's
no
strategies
in
the
whole
document,
there's
literally
not
a
strategy
section
in
the
whole
document
like
what
are
the
strategies
we're
going
to
implement
and
getting
from
this
is
where
I
am
now
to
where
I
want
to
get
to.
I
I
should
have
a
known
strategy
and
we
know
these
strategies
will
constantly
change.
C
A
C
E
You
just
a
point
of
clarification
for
the
commission
and
I
would
like
jason
to
weigh
in
on
this
because
he
knows
more
than
I
do
about
this
particular
issue,
but
in
december
jason,
attended
and
presented
at
a
city
council
workshop
at
which
these
elements
were
discussed,
and
so
90
of
the
ordinance
that
is
in
front
of
you
was
discussed
in
concept
with
the
city
council
and
they've
approved,
approved
those
concepts
they've.
They
asked
and
directed
jason
and
the
legal
department
to
draft
up
those
concepts
in
ordinance
form.
C
C
I
haven't
seen
a
document
that
says
these
are
the
strategies
we
are
employing
to
get
us
to
the
goals,
and
this
is
what's
dictating
our
plans
and
what
are
what's
dictating
our
work
policy.
I
mean
saying:
okay,
we've
got
all
these
things
on
our
list.
Fine.
How
do
we
choose
those
things
gone
list
and
are
they
in
line
with
the
strategy
we're
taking
to
actually
get
to
our
goals?
That
would
be
very,
very
valuable
for
us
to
know.
C
So
we
can
understand
when
we're
making
a
decision
that
we're
doing
something
is
in
line
with
what
you
have
your
greater
broader
strategy.
Your
goal
is
or
not,
if
it's
there
sweet,
this
will
take
20
minutes,
we'll
be
done.
If
it
isn't
there,
it
may
be
something
where
it
identifies.
This
is
something
we
probably
should
be
looking
at
differently
when
we're
looking
at
the
carpenter
plan.
What
is
our
true
strategy?
There
is
our
was
the
carpenter
plan
truly
just
we
got
a
billing
a
drake.
C
B
A
I
mean
the
commission
can
have
a
subcommittee,
I
guess,
and
maybe
I'm
not
following
and
others
are,
but
I
I
I
feel
like
parts
of
what
you
have
said
been
said
chris
and
your
motion
are
kind
of
abstract.
So
I
don't
really.
I
don't
100
know
what
it
is
we're
being
asked
for.
So
when,
when
the
sidewalk
issue
was
very
specific
and
it
was
a
singular
problem
and
we
knew
that
we
could
probably
meet
a
few
times
and
knock
it
out
when
it's
as
big
and
as
abstract
as
it
seems
to
me.
A
E
G
C
I
think
there's
yeah
there's
there's
either
whether
they
can
be
combined
awesome.
My
first
motion
was
I'm
on
this
one
to
move
staff.
However,
my
second
desired
motion,
as
a
result
of
this
is-
and
I
can
you
know
repeat
the
the
text,
but
the
general
gist-
is
to
form
a
subcommittee
they'll
actually
identify
what
our
strategies
are,
and
in
that
write,
a
letter
to
counsel
the
direct
staff
to
work
with
a
subcommittee.
B
C
That
works
for
me.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
jason
at
one
point,
though,
as
far
as
where
does
it
go
and
how
big
does
it
get?
I
think
the
answer
is
we
don't
know
number
one
because
number
two,
it
sounds
like
there's
disagreement
as
to
whether
or
not
we
have
a
strategy
when
I
say
strategy
just
to
be
clear
right,
for
example.
C
If
if
my
goal,
for
example,
is
to
say,
I
don't
want
my
kids
to
keep
asking
me
about
cookies
right,
my
strategy
is
to
make
sure
that
cookies
are
not
available
in
the
house,
and
my
task
in
that
is
to
stop
buying
cookies
and
hopefully
eat
them
all.
First,
so
they're
all
gone.
But
the
point
is
there's
a
strategy
in
what
I'm
looking
to
achieve.
C
Yes,
there
is
going
to
be
a
lot
of
things
we
need
to
identify
as
a
city.
It's
a
big
organization
representing
over
a
quarter
million
people.
It
is
going
to
be
a
large
thing,
but
we
need
to
have
it
if
we're
going
to
stay
consistent
because
you
only
eat
an
elephant,
a
bite
at
a
time.
So
I
think
that
there
is
an
importance
in
understanding
what
the
strategies
are
and
ensuring
my
kids
stop
asking
about
cookies,
extrapolate
onto
the
city
level,.
C
Yeah,
for
example,
I
mean
one
of
our
goals.
I
hope-
and
obviously
this
is
something
that
is
above
our
pay
grade
is
that
we
would
own
the
conduit
that
would
allow
us
to
deliver
broadband
everywhere.
That's
a
goal
right:
how
do
we
get
that?
There's
gonna,
be
a
strategy
for
how
we
pay
for
that
there's
gonna
be
strategy
of.
Are
we
actually
intending
for
that
to
be
paid
for
on
the
backs
of
our
citizens?
Are
we
intending
for
that
to
be
paid
for
by
the
individuals
who
benefit
from
it?
C
H
H
The
the
property
contains
a
two-story
building
and
a
surface
parking
lot.
The
adjacent
users
in
the
vicinity
are
mostly
retail
restaurant
bars
offices
and
so
on,
and
I
have
a
cyclone
here
that
I
can
show
you.
As
you
can
see
here.
There
are
eight
planter
beds
adjacent
to
the
to
the
building
and
the
the
request
is
to
allow
tap
rock
mulch
in
these
planter
beds,
rather
than
organic
mulch.
H
H
So
some
of
the
reasons
why
staff
is
recommending
denial
is
the
section
135-7.3.1
b
of
the
planning
and
design
ordinance
requires
that
all
areas
of
planting
beds
that
are
not
covered
by
plants
shall
be
maintained
with
non-living
permeable
materials
such
as
mulch
and
not
including
rock
city.
Forestry
staff
has
also
advised
that
rock
mulch
would
not
provide
a
permeable
surface
and
would
limit
water
to
the
tree.
Well,
restricting
growth
and
impacting
the
health
of
the
street
trees,
traffic
and
transportation
department
at
the
city
has
also
expressed
concerns
in
terms
of
safety.
H
Rock
is
a
safety
hazard
for
bicyclist
motorists,
as
well
as
pedestrians
can
cause
weaving
and
crashes
if
they
get
out
on
the
street,
could
be
a
tripping
hazard
as
well,
and
tap.
Rock
mulch
would
also
not
be
in
character
with
the
surrounding
neighborhood
area,
and
we
believe
that
the
street
free
planter
beds
should
be
maintained
with
organic
mulch,
rather
than
rock,
in
order
to
promote
the
growth
and
health
of
a
sustainable
tree
canopy
and
provide
for
a
safe
neighborhood
in
that
area.
B
I
The
505
east
grand
avenue
location
contains
approximately
approximately
eight
planter
beds
of
the
sidewalks
next
to
the
street,
historically,
including
in
2021.
We
filled
the
planter
bleds
with
planter
beds
with
new
rock
or
granite
mulch
each
spring.
The
concern
with
the
mulch
is
that,
based
upon
the
topography
of
the
site,
the
first
decent
rain
we
receive
causes
the
mulch
flowing
out
of
the
beds
down
the
sidewalks
and
into
the
streets.
I
Once
the
mulch
watch
mulch
washes
away.
It
creates
a
significant
safety
concern
with
an
open
planter
bed
and
severe
drop
from
the
sidewalk
into
the
planter
bed,
an
eye
sort
of
the
neighborhood
and
ultimately,
we
presume
most
of
the
mulch
enters
the
storm
water
system
when
it
floats
away
based
upon
noticing.
Other
properties,
with
rock
in
the
planter
beds
along
the
sidewalks
of
the
downtown
area,
a
decision
was
made
to
install
trap
rock
in
the
planter
beds
of
location.
I
This
past
fall
of
2021
to
solve
the
concerns
noted
above
we
did
not
realize
or
think
this
was
a
considered
a
site
improvement
that
would
require
city
approval.
Until
I
received
an
email
from
the
city
forester,
we
had
no
mal
intent
on
adding
the
rock.
Our
intent
was
to
eliminate
the
safety
concern
for
the
sidewalk
use
users
and
the
liability
exposure
from
the
property
owner.
I
Once
we
received
the
notice,
we
reviewed
the
landscape
plan
that
we
had
on
file
and
it
doesn't
call
out
a
specific
mulch
in
the
planter
beds.
We
understand
the
opinions
and
concerns
of
the
city
for
the
survivability
of
the
trees
and
the
planter
beds
and
the
potential
of
the
rock
being
spilled
into
the
pedestrian
walkways.
I
But,
conversely,
many
of
the
same
concerns
can
be
said
about
the
fiber
mulch.
We've
been
installing
fiber
mulch
annually
in
the
beds
and
found
it
to
be
a
safety
hazard.
When
the
mulch
floats
out
of
the
beds,
we
are
left
with
an
empty
planter
bed,
the
greatly
increases
trip
hazards.
In
addition,
the
mulch
that
is
washed
out
of
the
beds
creates
concern
when
it's
all
over
the
sidewalks.
I
Trap
rock
is
more
expensive
than
other
rock
options,
but
stays
in
better
place
with
less
chance
of
the
rock
running
out
of
the
beds
than
other
rocks
such
as
river
rock.
Although
we
do
agree
with
the
city,
forester's
comments
about
the
fiber
mulch
being
better
than
rock
for
the
trees
we've
respectively
asked
the
question:
how
much
does
it
really
impact
the
survivability
of
the
trees?
I,
regardless
of
what
kind
of
mulch
is
in
these
beds,
if
we're
all
honest
with
ourselves,
based
upon
the
subsoil
conditions
and
the
reality
of
of
urban
trees.
I
I
A
few
other
comments
we
had
after
reviewing
the
the
city
staff
comments.
One
of
these
comments
is
that
rock
mulch
doesn't
allow
a
permeable
surface
and
limits
water
to
the
trees.
Again,
I
I
don't
see
how
we
would
we
don't
necessarily
agree
with
that
assertion.
The
rock
is
very
permeable.
I
don't
see
where
there's
going
to
be
water,
water
issues
getting
to
the
trees
to
be
taken
into
consideration
and
then
also
the
comments
regarding
the
rock
safety
of
the
motorcyclists
and
bicycles.
I
I
So
this
this
area
here
between
these
two
buildings.
This
is
all
trap
rock
and
I'm
aware
of
other
properties
in
the
east
village.
It
also
have
trap
rocks,
so
it
does
fit
within
the
surrounding
neighborhood
and
then
also
we.
We
don't
believe
that
this
is
a
adversely
affecting
the
general
welfare
of
the
public.
J
J
Real
concern
on
this
was
quite
a
while
back
janice
rulon
asked
then
city
manager,
eric
anderson,
to
establish
a
beautification
standards
for
the
city
of
des
moines,
which
we
didn't
have
so
eric
called
this
committee
together,
and
I
was
pulled
in
as
a
tree
expert
at
the
time
and
we're
all
handed
a
copy
of
the
chicago
beautification
standards
go
home.
Take
a
look
at
them,
we'll
get
back
together
in
about
two
weeks.
Well,
when
we
got
back
together,
we
all
agreed.
J
We
die
a
slow
death,
there's
no
way
the
council
or
anybody
else
would
have
accepted.
So
we
went
through
their
standards
line
by
line
to
see
what
we
could
do
and
when
it
came
to
the
tree
pits
downtown
and
we
had.
We
had
representatives
of
every
department
in
the
city
of
des
moines,
including
police
department.
J
J
J
So
we
went
through
all
this
and
I'll
admit
some
of
the
stuff
that
this
gentleman
was
saying
is
true.
The
organic
mulch
will
translocate
heavy
rains
and
stuff
it's
a
problem,
but
I
never
thought
I'd
see
it,
but
during
the
bm
blm
protest
downtown,
you
all
saw
it
on
tv.
They
were
throwing
rocks
through
windows
down
there,
especially
at
that
tire
shop
where
they
came
from.
I'm
not
quite
sure.
E
J
Say
this
when
we
established
that
committee,
the
average
life
of
a
municipal
tree
in
a
downtown
setting
was
about
15
years
by
the
time
I
retired,
we
had
trees
that
were
20
years
old
down
there
and
they're
even
older
than
that.
Now,
when
you
look
at
these
tree
pits
and
you
build
them
right,
they
make
a
lot
better
environment
for
trees
than
what
it
used
to
be.
It's
not
a
very
good
environment
to
start
with,
but
that's
that's
my
feeling
on
this
and
from
a
safety.
J
I
I
I
I
Adding
this
amount
of
trap
rock,
I
don't
believe,
is
going
to
create
a
much
more
of
a
safety
concern
than
the
additional
rock
that's
already
in
the
space,
and
I
do
appreciate
his
comment
on
the
survivability
of
the
trees.
I
again
I've
asked
that
question
before
and
I've
never
been
given
an
answer,
and
I
don't
want
to
downplay
15
versus
20
years,
but
you're
still
not
getting
to
that
full
lifespan
of
a
tree
in
that
you
know
15
versus
20,
and
I
also
that's
an
average.
I
So
let's
say
we
have
eight
trees
down
there
and
five
of
them
make
it
to
twenty
two
of
them,
make
it
to
thirteen,
and
one
makes
it
to
seventeen.
You
know
you're
talking
about
a
ballpark
average
fifteen
to
twenty
years.
In
our
opinion,
if
that's
an
average
they're
you're,
pretty
close
in
the
lifespan
you're
not
talking
about
going
from
15
years
to
40
years
to
where
you're
really
going
to
see
that
you
know
a
true
bloom
of
a
tree
and
the
true
canopy
of
a
tree,
creating
that
that
shade.
C
I
have
one
clarification.
Let
me
just
make
sure
basically
to
break
a
glass
window,
we're
talking
about
like
20
000
psi.
Is
there
any
reason
to
believe
that
isn't
true
number
one
and
number
two
with
a
two
ounce
rock,
I
think
it's
pretty
highly
unlikely
blm
was
throwing
these
and
breaking
windows.
Is
that
probably
fair.
C
I
F
D
I
G
I
I
If
you
go
right
across
the
street
from
us,
I
don't
know
if
there's
still
there's
the
lion
lounge,
they
have
river
rock
and
then
also
you
were
talking
about
some
of
the
landscaping
beds
as
well.
So
during
our
east,
locust
also
has
a
rock.
If
you,
if
you
walk
around
it's
one
of
those
things
that
itself
included,
I
think
that
most
of
us,
don't
you
know,
spend
our
time
looking
looking
down
and
what
do
I,
you
know
what
type
of
landscaping
material
am
I
looking
at
until
you
have
an
issue
like
this.