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From YouTube: 8-18-22 Plan & Zoning Commission
Description
Des Moines Plan & Zoning Commission meeting on Thursday, August 18, 2022.
View the agenda: https://DSM.city/PZatHome
A
A
Thank
you.
I
will
now
read
the
consent.
Public
hearing
items
number
one
request
from
liberty,
holdings
owner
1626
dickson
street,
represented
by
jeff
tucker
regarding
the
vacation
of
the
easternmost
255
lineal
feet
of
the
east-west
right-of-way
of
east
jefferson,
ave
located
to
the
west
of
dixon
street.
A
A
A
A
Thank
you,
jason.
We
will
now
move
on
to
public
hearing
items.
Item
number
five
is
continued
from
the
july
21
2022
meeting.
It
is
a
request
from
mr
salah
for
a
review
and
approval
of
a
public
hearing
site
plan,
ice
cream
shop
for
the
property
located
at
3510
cottage
grove,
ave
and
for
the
type
2
design
alternatives.
A
and
b
and
michael
will
be
presenting
this
item.
D
D
And
just
to
provide
some
context
of
what
they're
proposing
here
on
site
in
terms
of
the
ice
cream
shop.
The
building
is
located
here
on
the
southwest
corner
of
the
lot,
with
the
parking
oriented
towards
cottage
grove,
avenue
and
30.
Sorry
37th
here,
the
garbage
on
the
back
end
of
here
is
oriented
towards
the
alleyway.
D
Their
primary
frontage
here
is
on
the
cottage
grove
for
their
primary
entrance.
Here
they
have
parking
oriented
here
towards
the
south
on
the
lot
here
are
some
elevations
just
to
give
you
an
idea
of
what
they're
proposing
in
terms
of
building
they'll
have
a
patio
here
and
a
balcony
oriented
towards
the
eastern
part
of
the
building
towards
the
parking
lot
on
the
eastern
portion
of
the
building.
D
D
D
D
D
D
Correct
it'll
be
in
the
northeast
corner.
Here,
that's
what
staff
is
recommending.
It's
currently
meeting
the
zero
to
five
foot
bill
two
zone
for
storefront
requirements.
It
is
not
meeting
the
zero
to
ten.
So
ideally,
it
would
be
in
this
northeast
corner
meeting
the
zero
to
ten
foot
bill
two
zone
in
the
zero
to
five
foot
bill
two
zone.
F
So
I
guess
I'm
I'm
sort
of
the
same
so
right
now
there
is
a
parking
lot
there.
Are
they
talking
about
disturbing
the
parking
lots?
That's
there
with
the
building
in
this
current
plan
and
we're
proposing
we're
going
to
take
that
whole
parking
lot
out
and
build
a
new
one.
That
may
also
not
have
two
logical
entries
for
traffic
flow
and
instead
have
another
parking
lot
that
may
have
parking
density
challenges
and
parts
and
parking
entry
and
exit
challenges.
D
C
C
C
C
It's
also,
obviously,
the
way
the
design
standards
have
been
constructed
for
this
district
that
that
building
should
be
out
there,
and
so,
since
this
brand
new
development
other
than
some
existing
paving
versus
renovating
an
existing
building,
we
felt
as
appropriate
to
do
so
with
that.
You
know
that
that
could
be
achieved.
F
D
H
G
If
you
look
at
entire
area
from
university
avenue
to
235
and
from
28th
over
to
42nd
other
than
the
shops
at
roosevelt,
this
is
the
only
mx1
property
in
that
entire
area.
It's
predominantly
residential.
There
are
some
heavier
uses
up
along
university,
as
would
be
expected,
there's
a
few
churches
in
the
area,
but,
as
you
travel
from
cottage
grove
to
from
42nd
to
28th
and
35th
from
university
down
past
kingman,
it's
predominantly
residential.
G
G
There's
a
little
bigger
arrow
than
what
we
saw
earlier,
but
there's
some
pretty
large
setbacks.
Mostly
houses
are
probably
at
least
25
feet.
There's
several.
You
know
along
cottage
grove
the
entire
length
of
that
street
that
are
closer
to
40
or
50..
Setbacks,
get
pretty
large
as
you
go
south
along
35th
and
those
three
structures
that
exist
at
this
intersection.
G
The
two
homes
in
the
church
are
all
about
35
to
45
feet
away
from
the
intersection
of
the
sidewalk,
so
we
feel
a
place
in
this
building
up,
and
you
know
cram
this
building
up
in
the
corner
would
look
at
a
place
at
that
wide
open
intersection
as
you're
traveling
south
on
35th.
It's
going
to
block
the
view
of
those
houses
to
the
south,
a
little
history
on
the
site.
There
was
a
building
on
this
site
that
was
torn
down
in.
I
G
There's
another
parking
lot
that
shows
the
parking
meters,
so
I
mean
tell
us,
it
seems
like
a
logical
place
to
put
the
building.
We
consider
this
kind
of
redevelopment
since
it
was,
you
know,
building
there
for
so
long.
The
parking
lot's
been
there
it's
in
great
shape
it
would
serve.
Our
purpose
provides
the
required
amount
of
parking
stalls
for
what
we
are
proposing
for
this
type
of
use.
G
You
know
the
environmentally
conscious
thing
to
do
would
be
to
use.
What's
there,
I
don't
think
redevelopment
means
take
everything
down
to
the
ground
and
haul
half
the
stuff
to
the
dump
site
or
the
landfill
somewhere,
and
it
also
increases
you
know:
expenses
for
the
owner,
the
parking
lot's
there
and
can
be
used.
You
know
why
not
incorporate
that
into
your
site.
G
H
G
G
G
G
G
G
G
Tray
ash
is
normally
in
the
back
side
of
the
building
hidden
from
view
along
the
streets,
as
we've
shown
it
future
use
and
the
owner
wants
to.
Let's
just
be
a
long
time
thing
that
his
family
and
you
know
kids
can
continue
to
operate.
So
it's
always
hard
to
predict
what
the
future
might
be
the
alley
we
thought
that
was
a
good
buffer
for
the
residents.
G
So
if
we
did
have
a
if
the
building
was
to
the
east-
and
we
had
a
single
lot
right,
a
lot
with
a
single
entrance
and
it's
only
five
or
six
cars-
there's
a
good
chance-
somebody
pull
in
there.
The
lot
would
be
full
there's,
not
a
lot
of
maneuvering
space
when
the
lot's
full,
so
they
try
to
back
up
on
a
cottage
grove.
G
J
G
G
K
G
I
F
For
the
house
to
the
south,
what
is
the
distance
between
the
porch
and
the
sidewalk
you're
saying
that
we'd
be
blocking
that
view,
but
I
guess,
if
we're
moving
over
to
the
far
east
of
it
and
you're
saying
we
need
it,
you
know
with
the
city's
distance
they're
acquiring,
will
you
actually
be
blocking
that
view?
Will
you
just
be
aligned
with
the
porch.
G
F
F
Okay
and
last
one
so
regarding
sustainability,
I
mean
obviously
this
is
a
third
ice
cream
shop
in
16
blocks
right
on
this
street
alone.
So
I'm
curious
if
we're
thinking
that
maybe
we
can't
sustain
three
ice
cream
shops
in
16
blocks.
Is
there
an
actual
business
case
for
being
more
sustainable,
that
buildings
more
reusable
on
the
west
and
the
east.
G
They
will
serve.
You
know,
sandwiches
breakfast,
it's
going
to
be
more
than
just
ice
cream
shop,
and
that
was
when
we
started
this
couple
years
ago.
He
was
thinking
about
putting
a
you,
know,
ice
cream,
truck
or
a
trailer
on
the
lot,
and
it's
evolved
into
this,
where
he
will
serve
more
than
just
ice
cream.
So
it's
more
like
a
cafe
or
a
small.
G
L
I
have
a
quick
question
so,
aside
from
the
desire
to
maintain
the
existing
parking
lot,
is
there
in
terms
of
like
other
challenges,
to
moving
the
building?
There
don't
appear
to
be
any
topography
challenges,
it
looks
pretty
flat.
Are
there
any
utility
challenges
or
is
the
parking
lot
kind
of
the
sole.
G
Reason
it's
part
of
the
parking
lot
and
the
fact
that
the
building
was
there
for
80
for
the
last
92
years.
Why
not?
You
know
put
one
back
where
it
was
it's
going
to
be
nice
in
the
village,
there
provide
a
great
neighborhood
service
amenity,
there's
no
utility
challenges,
the
water's
in
cottage
grove
and
the
sanitary
sewers
and
35th.
G
L
G
Up
on
university
yeah
and
their
building
sits
yeah.
It
is
just
like
ours
and
sits
backwards,
and
if
there
were
other
mx1
uses
along
this
block-
and
they
were
all
you
know
up
in
line-
I
could
certainly
see
the
point
and
move
this
up.
But
since
this
is
so
isolated,
you
know
the
use
in
itself
is
going
to
provide
walkability
and
encourage
people
to
go
to
the
site.
A
K
M
For
when
you
talk
about
walkability,
that
means
you
don't
feature
parking
and
the
way
this
is
cited
on
the
lot
is
that
you're
featuring
the
parking.
So
that's
why
the
parking
should
be
in
the
back
and
if
you
build
parking
they
will
use
it.
So
I'd
strongly
recommend
that
you
add
more
bike
parking
spots.
I
think
there's
maybe
a
couple
racks
thrown
in
there
and
if
you
want
to
encourage
people
to
come,
you
don't
show
them
where
to
park
right
up
front.
M
Also,
the
house-
that's
just
south,
has
sort
of
annexed
this
parking
lot
into
their
unit,
they're
the
same
owner,
so
it's
kind
of
used
as
a
personal
parking
lot.
It
appears.
So
it's
not.
It's
not
quite
exactly
a
parking
lot.
Today,
it's
being
used
by
the
owner
for
personal
parking
or
sold
for
personal
parking,
and
really
this
is
des
moines
and
we
should
think
or
like
a
city.
We
are
an
urban
center
and
this
is
a
place
where
people
walk
and
there's
lots
of
going
to
be
a
lot
of
students
around
there.
M
I'm
pleased
to
hear
it
sounds
like
it's
going
to
be
a
year-round
organization,
year-round
business.
That
means
that
the
sidewalks
will
get
shoveled
year-round
versus
just
versus.
Not
if
it's
not
open
year-round,
they
may
not
do
their
duty
on
shoveling,
so
I
think
moving
it
up
into
an
urban
look
and
feel
moving.
The
parking
to
the
back
is
really
the
right
way
to
go.
Thank
you.
A
H
We
are
not
like
the
bar
down
the
street
from
us,
we're
not
serving
alcohol
and
we
like,
then
the
other
person
said
we
live
in
the
neighborhood
and
we
we've
been
looking
for
this
for
over
40
years
and
we
saw
all
the
potential
about
it.
You
know
it's
a
good
place,
good
place,
good
location,
and
since
we
bought
the
property,
we'll
be
maintaining
it
from
the
a
to
the
z
or
my
neighborhood
loved
it.
H
They
loved
the
way
like
we
took
over
and
we
made
a
beautiful
corner
for
my
neighborhood
without
putting
anything
into
it,
and
all
we
put
in
so
far
is
just
money,
but
we
okay
with
it
to
make
our
neighbors
happy
so
for
saying,
like
I'm,
using
as
a
per
person
in
a
parking
lot,
I
do
have
two
kids
and
they
grow
and
they
gain
cars.
You
know
which
is
I'm
using
it
temporary.
H
As
soon
as
my
business
is
established,
we're
going
to
put
a
garage
in
the
back
of
our
house
that
way,
we
don't
have
to
use
the
parking
lot
for
the
traffic.
I
know
we
don't
have
enough
space
for
parking
lot,
but
we
have
a
lot
of
street
around
us.
They
have
a
side
parking
street
which
is
36
and
even
catch
grove
even
kingmans.
H
You
know,
which
is
a
lot
of
my
neighbor.
They
would
just
feel
free
to
walk
we're
not
too
far
and
we're
not
like
in
the
corner
of
a
bad
traffic
street
like
snooki's
snooki,
isn't
in
a
really
cool,
tough
earner
sections,
which
is,
I
live
too,
not
too
far
from
it,
and
I
see
how
the
traffic
gets
there
in
the
summer
time.
H
The
reason
I
want
to
put
the
building
in
the
back,
I
think
it
would
be
best
for
because,
if
you
put
it
in
the
front
also
it
will
kind
of
block
the
corner
of
the
35th
street
when
people
coming
out
to
turn
the
right
or
left
in
the
35th,
which
is
you're
coming
from
kaiju
grove.
And
when
you
come
into
the
intersection
of
35th,
which
is.
This
is
two-stop
sign
the
one
on
east
and
one
in
the
west,
and
then
I
used
to
have
a
huge
bush
in
the
corner
of
the
lab.
H
I
used
to
have
a
huge
bush
in
the
corner
of
the
property,
and
then
I
removed
it
because
within
one
years
we
had
three
accidents
in
that
corner,
because
the
bush
was
about
just
eight
foot
tall
and
it
was
a
lot
of
accident
involved
about
it.
So
I
moved
it
because
I
felt
like
maybe
it
would
kind
of
open
up
for
the
neighbor
and
since
then
it's
been
less
accident.
People
able
to
see
it
to
view
better
and
it's
now.
H
If
we
put
the
building
there,
it
will
kind
of
block
the
view
and
then
also
like
we
don't
have
the
problem
to
put
it
in
the
front.
If
you
guys
want
us
to
do
it,
you
know
we're
going
to
tear
the
concrete
it.
Just
we
just
try
to
kind
of
save
as
much
as
we
can
to
start
a
business.
We
are
local,
we're
not
from
out
of
town
we're,
not
a
big
company
or
big
investor.
You
know
I
came
to
america.
21
years
ago
I
had
25
in
my
pocket
and
I'm
trying
to
be.
A
D
J
C
C
You
know,
because,
as
we
developed,
how
we
want
the
city
to
develop
over
time,
redevelop
is,
as
you
know,
not
everything
that
exists
today
conforms
but
things
redevelop
and,
as
that
happens,
the
the
thought
behind
chapter
135
was
to
work
at
an
area
such
as
this
to
that
more
urban
format.
So
I
don't
know
if
that
helps
answer
the
question
or.
F
N
Yeah
just
really
quickly.
So
if
we
talk
about
tradition,
I
mean
it's
been
there
84
out
of
the
92
years,
the
houses
there
have
been
as
long
is
there,
so
I
don't
know
why
we're
trying.
I
don't
know
if
why
we're
trying
to
change
that
it's
it
was
designed.
So
we're
questioning
how
it
was
designed
earlier.
N
C
I
mean
I
I
well,
I
think
this
that
ultimately,
those
are
the
kinds
of
things
the
commission
has
to
to
weigh
out
and
so
and
we
thought
about
that
as
staff
yeah,
there
has
been
a
building.
I
mean
this,
isn't
historic
preservation
in
the
sense
that
we're
trying
to
respect
the
specific
development
pattern
of
this
lot
and
any
new
buildings
should
be
where
the
old
ones
were
it's
about,
looking
at
just
kind
of
a
broader
development
pattern
and
and
that
the
urban
nature
of
it
and
trying
as
we
have
new
development,
that's
the
perspective.
C
We
took
a
staff
and
I
I
don't
have
any
you
know.
If
the
commission
feels
that
you
know
the
reusing
the
the
pavement
is
more
important.
That's
fine!
That's
your
decision
to
make,
but
as
staff
and
balancing
all
out,
we
ultimately
said
you
know
that
things
going
to
redevelop
things
that
exist
today,
don't
always
conform.
C
We'll
will
stick
with
our
recommendation
of
keeping
it
within
the
standards
of
the
code.
I
will
say
that
we
would,
if
there
was
a
need
to
offer
some
level
of
setback.
Relief
we'd
be
supportive
of
that,
but
just
putting
the
building
all
the
way
at
the
back
I
mean,
I
think,
the
outdoor
patio
deck
space
is
a
wonderful
idea,
and
I
would
expect
that
that
would
be
in
front
of
this
building
on
the
side
street,
so
the
building
really
wouldn't
be
at
zero.
The
building
would
be
at
you
know,
10
feet.
C
I
think
the
drawing
showed
that
is
about
11
or
12
a
couple
feet
ex.
You
know
you
know
that
could
be
administratively
reviewed
with
the
type
one
if
it
was
needed
to
be
twelve
feet
and,
and
that
would
still
also
put
the
outdoor
seating
area
on
the
east
side
of
the
building
so
afternoon,
sun.
You
know
the
building's
blocking
the
sun
which
matches
what
they've
done.
So
those
are.
Those
are
the
thought
processes
we
went
through,
but
again,
ultimately,
just
to
close
my
comments.
This
is
your
guys's
decision
to
make.
E
I
I
would
tend
to
support
the
applicant
site
plan
here,
understanding
the
argument
about
redevelopment,
and
but
I
think
it's
compelling
that
this
is
the
only
mx1
place
in
this
neighborhood
and
this
corner
is
really
open.
I
think
that
having
the
building
all
the
way
on
the
east
side
is
going
to
feel
very
strange
on
this
intersection,
and
I
think
that
the
traffic
flow
that
exists
on
that
site
plan
already
works
quite
well
coming
in
off
cottage
grove
and
exiting
onto
35th.
F
F
So,
as
far
as
the
the
staff
question,
so
if
this,
if
this
building
had
still
been
here
and
we're
rehabilitating
that
building
versus
it
being
now
green,
would
staff
look
at
this
differently?
Is
it
just
because
it
is
a
new
development,
is
why
we
want
to
make
sure
it
conforms
versus
if
they
just
waited
and
left
some
studs
we'd
be
fine
with
where
it
was,
but.
C
Actually,
if
it
was
an
existing
building,
the
code
has
existed,
they'd
have
existing
building
rights,
we
wouldn't
even
be
here.
I
mean
you,
don't
do
what
I'm
getting
at
so
it
wouldn't
even
be
a
question.
They
would
be
allowed
to
renovate
the
building
and
and
make
their
whatever
site
improvements
they
needed.
F
C
A
F
Ready
I
just
wanted
on
one
perspective,
I
agree
so
fully
in
some
ways,
and
actually,
ironically,
I'm
actually
more
in
favor
of
moving
the
building
to
the
east
in
this
case,
as
someone
who's
in
that
area,
it
makes
a
lot
of
sense
to
me.
This
has
already
come
down.
17
cost
differential
is
actually
less
than
what
we
would
actually
enforce
on
someone
on
a
utility
burying.
However,
the
same
time,
I
do
think
that
there
is,
there
can
be
significant
traffic
impacts
and
parking
impacts,
so
not
to
make
this
motion
but
float
out
there.
F
C
C
L
I
think
I
would
support
what
chris
said
I
feel
like
we
have
an
opportunity
to
maybe
do
better.
In
terms
of
you
know
new
development.
We
don't
have
the
opportunity
to
build
a
new
building
every
day.
So
let's
get
that
right
versus
parking
lot.
I
understand
the
sustainability
component,
but
the
building
can
also
be
sustainable
and
might
be
there
longer
anyways.
It
has
a
longer
life
potentially,
so
I
would
propose
moving
staff,
but
then
you
know,
with
the
caveat
that
I
think
the
traffic
part
needs
to
be
studied
and
proven
out.
L
A
C
I
mean
any
site
plan
is
getting
reviewed
through
by
our
traffic
and
transportation
division
staff.
I
think
maybe
the
point
that
you're
making
is
the
the
drawing
that
they've
reacted
to
is
the
drawing
that's
in
front
of
you,
because
that's
what
the
applicants
provided
to
date.
So,
I
think
that's
a
fair
observation
and
if,
if
you
did
act
on
that,
they
would
have
the
ability
you
know,
should
we
you
know
get
further
into
it
to
apply
to
come
back
to
you
guys
with
a
you
know,
a
second
request
with
new
information.
F
C
You
can
include
that
in
there,
but
the
the
reality
is
is
that
if
they
can
it
might
it's
a
little
bit
unnecessary
because
it's
kind
of
they
if
they,
if
they
submit
something
that
complies
with
the
setback
and
traffic
and
transportation,
approves
it
then
it's
all.
You
know
it's
assumed.
You
know,
then
that's
all
through
that
process.
That's
taking
place,
so
I'm
I'm
talking
what
I'm
thinking.
F
I
guess
so
here's,
I
guess
here's
one
where
I'm
going
with
that.
So
let's
make
sure
my
intent
is
not
misunderstood,
so
that
people
don't
so
what
I'm
saying
is
right
now
we
have
a
parking
setup
that
makes
sense.
If
we
have,
you
know
people
coming
in
off
of
cottage
and
out
off
of
35th.
That
makes
sense.
There's
a
safety
benefit
to
that
right.
There's
also
safety
benefit.
F
If
you
can't
find
street
parking
around
here,
probably
shouldn't
be
driving,
there's
a
site
issue
right,
so
I
think
that
there
is
there,
but
there
are
you
know
right
now:
we
will
have
a
traffic
flow
impact
of
this
configuration
of
this
in
and
out
situation
and
we'll
have
a
number
of
spaces
on
this
site
that
can
be
safely
put
onto
that
site.
That
should
be
our
baseline.
If
we
can
say
I'll
shift
it
over
here.
C
C
Actually,
you
know
you
can
count
on
street
parking,
so
you
know
they
may
end
up
with
a
little
bit
less
parking
spaces,
but
that'd
be
something
that
unless
it's
substantially
less
you
know
like
you
know,
staff
would
probably
it
would
be
within
a
type.
1
range
we'd
work
with
them.
With
that,
I
I
sense
that
you,
you
kind
of
what
you're,
maybe
I'm
misreading
this,
but
I
sense
that
what
you
really
would
like
to
do
is
continue
this
and
have
them
explore
the
stuff
that
all
this
and
then
come
back
because
I
feel
like.
C
Maybe
you
don't
want
to
just
leave
it
up
to
staff,
which
is
fine,
but
I
just
wonder
if
the
better
avenue
for
you
is
to
continue
it.
If
that's
truly,
what
you're
looking
for
is
to
have
this
report
back,
because
if
you,
if
you
go
with
the
motion,
we're
going
to
work
with
them
and
we'll
probably
get
to
a
place
that
staff
is
comfortable
with
and
we'll
approve
it.
F
Yeah,
so
I
guess
yeah,
maybe
there's
confusion.
I
don't
want
to
get
to
a
point
where
staff
basically
says
yep,
it's
on
the
east
and
yep
we've
just
not
done
enough
of
a
study
to
know
if
there's
any
impact,
so
man.
This
is
good
enough.
So
then
yep
you're
forced
to
go
to
the
east,
we're
forcing
them
to
go
to
the
east
and
force
them
to
change
the
configuration
of
this
parking
lot.
C
Our
traffic
and
transportation
division
is
going
to
look
at
it.
The
same
way
they
already
have,
which
is
it,
doesn't
require
a
traffic
study
they're
going
to
look
at
how
close
are
the
driveways
to
the
intersection
and-
and
you
know,
is
there
adequate
space?
You
know
for
maneuvering,
and
you
know
they'll
look
at
some
rudimentary
stuff,
but
there's
not
going
to
be
like
no
matter
where
the
building
is
on
the
site,
we're
just
making
assumption
based
assumptions
based
off
of
our
perception
that
this
is
safe.
C
F
So
you're
saying,
if
we
pass
this
motion,
it
won't
actually
do
we're
intending,
which
is
what
we're
intending
is
saying,
prove
that
it
is
not
going
to
be
negatively
impacting
moves
to
the
east.
We're
saying
now
we'll
come
we're
just
going
to
say
it's
fine
enough,
it's
so
it's!
Let's
go
to
the
east.
Now
we're
going
to
be
adding
that
cost,
we're
going
to
mean
reducing
the
number
of
parking
spaces,
we're
going
to
be
reducing
a
number
of
reasonable
ins
and
out
safe
ins
and
safe
ins
and
outs,
then,
is
that.
C
C
Our
engineering
staff
would
look
at
the
new
configuration
and
based
off
of
their
professional
expertise
and
and
our
standards
for
like
how
far
driveways
have
to
be
apart
and
those
things
would
make
some
some
interpretation
decisions,
but
there's
not
going
to
be
like
a
traffic
study
in
the
sense
that
I
think
you're
hoping
that
will
come
and
prove
that
it's
equally
as
safe,
but
we
don't
we're
making
an
assumption
today.
We
don't
have
a
traffic
study
today.
Tell
us
that
this
is
how
safe
is
this.
F
L
O
Would
like
to
add
a
comment
from
the
safety
side.
If
that's
what
we're
considering
here,
how
would
it
impact
safety
to
remove
what's
currently
there
and
shift
the
building
to
the
east
side?
I
think
the
fact
that
moving
the
building
and
following
staff,
the
staff
recommendation,
will
remove
a
driveway
so
that
by
itself
helps
with
the
safety
of
that
intersection
having
one
driveway
in
from
cottage
road
and
then
using
the
alley
that
right
there
should
satisfy
the
safety
piece.
O
In
addition,
I
think
what
jason
is
getting
to
is
that
traffic
and
transportation
will
conduct
a
review
that
is
within
their
purview,
which
includes
that
safety
piece
as
well.
It
will
not
trigger
the
traffic
study,
but
it
does
include
a
safety
piece.
That's
where
the
whole
driveway
conversation
comes
in.
O
That's
why
I'm
sure
this
site
will
not
be
able
to
have
two
entrances
from
cottage
road,
and
I
think
that
will
be
a
major
impact
to
the
safety
of
this
intersection
as
a
whole,
not
only
for
the
traffic,
but
also
for
the
pedestrians
and
the
bicyclists
that
will
be
frequenting
this
site.
So
I
will
approve.
O
L
A
A
C
H
J
A
All
right,
we
are
gonna
move
on
to
item
number,
six,
a
request
from
jonathan
palmer
for
review
and
approval
of
a
public
hearing
site
plan
for
property
at
4125,
east
30th
and
for
type
2
design
alternative
to
allow
a
driveway
expansion
that
exceeds
the
maximum
allowed
front
yard
area.
Shiroshi
will
be
presenting
this
item.
B
B
B
The
property
is
on
4125
east
30th
street.
Here's
an
an
aerial,
shows
you.
The
property
is
in
a
residential
area,
n1b
neighborhood
district,
and
there
is
residential
zoning
and
uses
adjacent
to
the
to
the
subject
property.
So
it's
in
the
douglas
acres
neighborhood
and
here's
some
photographs
which
I'll
try
to
explain
what's
going
on
here.
B
I
have
a
sketch
that
I
can
show
if
you
have
questions
later,
but
I
will.
I
will
basically
try
to
explain
staff's
rational
and
what
is
being
recommended
here.
So
with
the
addition
of
the
second
driveway
and
the
circle
driveway.
What
would
happen
is
that
it
would
add
approximately
1114
square
feet
of
paving
to
the
front
yard,
which
will
bring
the
impervious
surface
area
to
about
54,
since
the
property
is
zoned
n1b
and
it
has
over
100
feet
of
frontage.
B
However,
it
is
below
40
percent,
which
is
typically
historically
what
staff
has
been
comfortable
supporting
if
it
exceeds
the
minimum
25.
So
by
making
that
modification
that
would
bring
the
impervious
area
to
38
percent
and
I'll
go
back
to
the
ariel.
So
I
can
explain
how
staff
is
proposing
that
modification
be
made.
B
C
A
H
B
The
width
of
the
the
driveway
here
is
14
feet.
This
is
the
existing
driveway,
but
over
here
where
we
have
the
circle
drive
it's
about
18
feet
wide.
So
if
the
applicant
were
to
consider
narrowing
that
down
to
about
10
feet,
that
is
what
would
bring
the
bring
it
down
to
38
impervious
surface
rather
than
the
54
that
we
see
with
his
proposed
with
the
applicant's
proposed
design.
C
F
B
C
Yeah
I
can,
there
is
for
the
the
front
yard
areas
where
you
get
the
25,
but
for
the
total
site
there
is
an
allowance,
above
and
beyond
I'll,
have
to
look
for
semi-permeable
pavement,
but
I
don't,
I
think,
you're
right.
I
don't
know
that.
That
applies
to
the
front
yard
I'll.
I
can
double
check
as
the
presentation's
made.
F
Yeah,
I'm
just
I'm
curious
is,
is
the
intent
of
the
I'm
curious
about
the
intent
of
the
ordinance
in
this
case,
and
so
since
we
do
know,
there's
difference
in
front
yard
versus
overall,
it's
probably
not
just
primarily
water
runoff.
So
there
must
be
something
else
at
play.
I
guess
I'm
wondering
if
there
is
something
else
at
play.
Is
there
a
requirement
to
the
number
of
cars
that
can
be
parked
in
a
front
yard
in
this
neighborhood,
and
if
we
are
basically
building
out
a
circle,
drive
right
here?
F
Is
it
really
actually
going
to
be
more
of
a
parkway
versus
a
driveway?
Here
I
mean:
is
it
probably
likely
just
going
to
be
holding
a
lot
more
cars
in
front
because
there
is
already
a
garage?
There
is
a
lot
of
driveway,
I'm
curious
what
the
intent
of
the
driveway
is
and
versus
the
ordinance
of
what
we're
looking
to
avoid.
C
Well,
I
mean
the
intent
of
how
it
gets
used.
We'll
have
to
ask
the
applicant,
but
the
I
mean,
there's
a
couple
of
different
things.
There
is
the
stormwater
runoff
and
having
perm,
you
know-
and
I
think
that's
important,
but
it's
also
a
character
perspective
of
not
having
you
know
having
some
limitations
on
how
much
pavement
you
can
do
in
the
front
yard,
and
even
our
old
zoning
code
had
that
25
limit.
So
it's
it's
a
long
standing
standard
in
des
moines
that
you
know
we're.
You
know
you
don't
want
your.
C
We
don't
want
folks
to
have
their
entire
front
yard
paved.
So
I
think
it's
it's
a
little
bit
of
an
urban
design
and
impact
on
the
character
of
the
neighborhood,
and
then
that
impacts
your
neighbors.
So
it's
not
just
you
know
it's.
It's
also
thinking
about
your
neighbors
from
that
and
then
also
storm
water
management
just
across
the
city
and
having
a
green
area
that
water
can
absorb
into.
O
B
C
I
just
a
little
information
to
add
because
I
talked
to
kyle
one
of
our
other
staffers
about
this.
I
apologize.
There
is
no
there
that
that
was
added
within
the
last.
You
know
that
that
curb
has
been
cut
down
in
the
last
few
years.
They're
now
trying
to
you,
know
to
actually
put
pavement
there,
that's
where
they've
come
in
and
to
get
the
permit
to
actually
do
it.
P
P
Q
P
P
P
Hose
permeable
hose
or
whatever
he
was
using,
was
six
inches
deep,
so
I
had
to
get
all
that
cleared
out
just
so
it
wouldn't
keep
pushing
water
back.
I
was
having
foundation
issues.
There
was
one
side
I
it
was
pushed
in.
The
crack
was
that
big
I've
done
quite
a
bit
of
work
to
get
this
thing
back
to
its
condition.
P
P
And
as
I've
been
doing,
this,
I've
waited
on
the
driveway
when
we
were
using
the
skid
loader.
I
think
that's
where
some
of
the
damage
came
to
that
area,
but
that
also
inspired
a
driveway
part
of
the
reason
I
want
that
there
is
because
I
have
a
truck
and
trailer
I'm
a
finished
carpenter,
so
I
regularly
am
moving
this
truck
and
trailer
whether
I'm
coming
home
from
work
or
leaving
in
the
morning
I
park
it
sometimes
behind
the
basketball
hoop.
P
P
So
I've
done
everything
I
can
to
get
that
water
to
go
back
into
the
big
yard.
That's
one
of
the
problems
with
this
douglas
area
and
one
of
the
wonderful
things
about
it.
You
can
see
I've
got
tons
of
room
in
the
back,
but
all
these
houses
most
of
them
are
pushed
so
far
forward,
especially
mine.
I
don't
have
much
room
we're
not
we're
not
big
car
people.
P
It's
not
like
it's
going
to
become
a
parking
lot,
but
when
we
do
want
to
park
or
when
guests
come
over
my
side,
the
east
side
is
a
no
parking
zone.
Right
in
front
of
me
is
three
mailboxes.
Now
we
can
park
there
most
of
the
time
the
mailman's
not
there,
but
under
circumstances.
At
times
we
cross
paths,
and
I
don't
want
to
make
it
any
more
inconvenient
for
him,
plus
the
benefit
of
us
being
able
to
get
in
and
out
easily
is
something
we
look
forward
to
I
proposed
I.
P
I
think
it
was
kyle
just
in
our
email
correspondence
that
I
would
come
down
to
a
instead
of
18
feet.
I
even
said
12
and
a
half
feet
which
would
give
me
enough
room,
I
believe,
for
a
truck
and
trailer
to
get
through
there
and
around
the
half
circle
with
a
little
too
well
little
problem,
I
guess,
but
other
than
that-
that's
kind
of
what
I'm
looking
for.
P
I
don't
really
intend
to
leave
it
there
in
the
front
yard.
I
have
a
security
camera
system,
so
I
actually
like
to
when
I'm
not
using
it
most.
Let's
say
70
of
the
time.
It's
on
a
job
site
I
commonly
work
in
west
des
moines
on
houses
that
will
be
there
for
sometimes
six
months,
sometimes
three
months,
sometimes
I'm
just
doing
daily
jobs,
but
as
it
comes
and
goes,
the
trailer
might
be
parked
behind
the
basketball
court
or
not
court,
but
behind
the
basketball
hoop.
P
Sometimes
it's
actually
in
the
driveway
right
in
front
of
the
truck.
I
use
my
garage
sometimes
as
a
shop,
but
it's
more
that
I
can
have
that
ease
to
get
in
there.
It
means
I'm
not
backing
up
doing
three-point
turns
on
the
street.
I've
noticed
since
I've
lived
there.
We
have
a
few
of
those
people
that,
like
to
get
off
29th
and
race
down
30th.
P
So
I
try
to
be
quick
about
it.
I've
you
know,
I
have
wonderful
neighbors,
there's
only
one
or
two
that
I
find
have
less
respect
for
the
law
when
it
comes
to
speeding,
which
I'll
be
honest,
I
have
trouble
with
when
I'm
on
the
highway,
but
we're
working
on
that.
My
point
is,
I
think
it
would
be
easier,
just
all
said
and
done
for
me
to
just
make
it
easy.
Also,
my
wife
I
enjoy
being
able
to
have
her
car,
so
she
can
park
right
up
there.
P
Next
to
the
gate,
I
think
there's
a
picture
we
showed
earlier,
where
she
parks
right
up
there
in
the
front
which
I
have
this
one.
That
kind
of
was,
you
know
a
quick
sketch.
You
know
phone
thing
just
to
kind
of
show
that
but
she'll
park
there.
She
also
likes
parking
under
the
shade
of
the
tree
behind
the
basketball
court.
P
P
P
You
know
I
still
want
to
put
a
tree
there.
Eventually,
you
know
once
we
get
this
finished
up,
I'm
pretty
close.
I
mean
this
house
is
almost
done.
You
can
probably
see
from
my
permits,
I'm
finishing
up
the
kitchen
and
bathroom
and
so
in
the
next.
Hopefully
three
months
I'll
be
100
done
with
this
house,
and
then
we
can
sit
back
and
enjoy
the
fruits
of
our
labor,
and
you
know
not
have
that
evening
night
weekend
work
going
on
so
yeah,
I
think.
P
P
F
F
I
know
that
we've
had
instances
have
come
forward
where
we've
had
enforcement
actions
on
essentially
work
trailers
in
in
front
of
a
house
is
that
something
a
staff
has
identified
as
a
potential
problem
here,
knowing
that
the
use
is
for
parking
at
work
trailer,
even
if
it's
from
time
to
time
now,
I
I
don't
want
us
to
prove
something
all
of
a
sudden
we're
like
oh
man.
Well
now
you
can't
do
what
you
want
to
do
like
yeah.
C
We
so
and-
and
the
code
says
yeah
you
can
have
circle
drive
well
in
this
case.
To
do
a
circle
drive
we.
We
think
it
needs
to
be
a
little
smaller,
but
he
still
has
to
have
some
sort
of
relief.
So
that's
why
we're
supportive
of
relief?
We
didn't
be
because
that
I
mean
that
was
really
our
thinking.
We
didn't
really
get
into
the
well
how's
he
going
to
use
it.
You
know
we
don't
have
a
history
of
enforcement.
Here.
C
We've
had
some
other
cases
where
there
has
been
a
history
where
we
know
we
have
somebody,
that's
been
parking
equipment.
You
know,
trailers
with
equipment
on
it.
Maybe
on
grass
you
know
some
things
that
our
enforcement
staff,
not
planning
staff
but
enforcement
staff-
are
have
been
having
issues
with.
In
that
case,
you
know
we
have
kind
of
brought
that
into
the
discussion
that
and
in
those
cases
they
also
weren't
zoned
and
large
lot
that
allows
the
circle
driveway
like
he
like.
F
Okay,
so
making
sure
they'll
summarize.
So
what
we're
saying
right
now
is
if
we
allow
a
circle
drive
we
currently
have.
We
can
allow
a
circle.
Drive
awesome,
we'll
have
circle
drive
within
parameters,
we're
looking
to
expand
those
parameters,
but
you
know
if
all
of
a
sudden
enforcement
comes
down
in
a
few
months
and
says
hey,
he
can't
have
his
work
truck
in
front.
Will
they
be
right
or
is
his
work
truck
being
here
alive?
I.
P
Let
me
address
that
right
away.
I
don't
like
to
see
that
in
my
even
by
my
basketball
hoop,
you
know
most
the
time
it
is
at
the
job
site.
I
do
have
a
big
yard
in
the
back
and
I
have
a
trailer
back
there.
You
know
for
when
I
need
a
flatbed.
I
don't
want
to
see
it
anymore
and
I
have
to
I,
like
you
know.
When
I
come
up,
I
like
a
nice
clean,
as
you
can
see
from
you
know,
I
have
a
nice
metal
gate.
Q
F
I
wasn't
arguing
that
I
was
more
as
more
making
sure
that
we're
conscious
of
step
two.
If
we
do
step
one
say
hey.
This
is
here:
let's
make
sure
we're
all
on
the
same
table
this.
It
doesn't
become
like
a
used
car
lot
or
anything.
That's
I
just
want
to
make
sure
we're
on
the
same
page
there.
So
before
we
get
you
frustrated
with
us,
and
you
said
this
is
all
right.
A
M
M
We
should
also
maybe
recommend
to
the
applicant
about
the
programs
that
the
city
funds
at
50
being
rain,
gardens
and
rain
barrels
that
would
help
address
the
issue
he's
having
with
all
the
water
coming
down
onto
his
patio
and
going
to
its
house,
and
that
circle
is
a
perfect
place
for
a
rain
garden,
because
you're
going
to
have
nothing
but
water
coming
through
there.
That's
not
going
to
be
rinsed
through
roots
before
it
gets
to
the
storm
gutter.
M
P
I'd
like
to
say
tell
me
more
about
the
rain
guard,
I'm
curious
and
I
don't
really
have
the
rain
problem.
I
prevented
that
going
forward
with
the
future.
That's
I
maybe
didn't
explain
it
well,
but
I've,
the
tiling
and
everything
takes
care
of
that
where
I
you
know
that
was
planned
ahead
of
time
before
I
did
that
and
yeah,
and
then
I've
graded
everything
else
away
from
the
house
and
so
we're
I'm
looking
pretty
good
on
that.
K
C
No,
I
I
think
we
have
some
very
strong
reservations
about
what
was
proposed,
but
if
the
commission
wants
to
do
12
feet
or
wherever
you
land,
I
mean
I
I
think
that's
it
percentage-wise
it's
still
fairly
high,
but
just
like
the
physical
dimension,
like
just
thinking
10
to
12,
is
not
a
whole
lot
difference
and
I
do
recognize
that
it'll
make
the
curve
more
achievable.
So
I
I
think
you
know,
staff
is
not
going
to
lose
any
sleep
over
that.
A
Thank
you
and
number
seven
is
our
last
item
tonight.
It
is
a
request
from
600
east
14th
street
llc,
represented
by
jake
christensen
for
review
and
approval
public
hearing
site
plan.
Casey
is
at
600
east
14th
for
property
at
600,
east
14th
for
type
2
design,
alternatives
a
through
f
and
nick
will
be
presenting.
R
Madam
chair
members
or
members
of
the
commission,
nick
tarvey
planning
staff
just
kind
of
want
to
break
down
some
of
the
design
alternatives
that
we're
looking
at
tonight.
Probably
read
your
staff
report
there's
a
long
list,
so
I
kind
of
want
to
try
to
break
that
down
of
how
we're
going
to
go
through
the
presentation,
so
the
first
five
or
the
first
four
on
there,
a
through
d
more
have
more
so
to
do
with
the
building
design.
R
So
some
of
those
kind
of
nitty-gritty
architectural
elements
we
can
talk
about
that
a
little
bit
should
be
a
really
nuanced
discussion.
I'm
going
to
try
to
walk
you
guys
through
how,
as
staff
we
worked
through,
that
with
some
of
the
site
constraints
and
and
worked
with
the
applicant,
so
I'll
try
to
explain
that
it
should
be
good
for
some
q
a
we
should
have
a
good
discussion
about
that
parts.
E
and
f
relate
more
to
the
site,
so
they're
a
little
bit
different.
R
So
here's
an
ariel
the
site.
It's
highlighted
here
in
yellow,
as
you
can
see,
it's
bounded
by
235
to
the
north.
We
got
east
14th,
u.s
69
to
the
east.
We
have
demoine
street
to
the
south
and
some
institutional
uses
to
the
west.
I
also
wanted
to
include
a
little
bit
of
more
of
a
zoomed
out
aerial.
To
give
you
a
little
bit
greater
context
here.
R
If
you're
following
my
cursor,
the
cursor
represents
pretty
roughly,
I
did
rough
measurement,
it's
about
a
half
mile
in
terms
of
radius,
so
we're
thinking
about
things
like
walk
sheds.
Keep
that
in
mind
as
we're
talking
about
this
item
tonight.
I
also
want
to
point
out
a
couple
of
landmarks,
so
this
here
this
is
east
high,
so
it's
located
about
a
quarter
mile
north
they
do
have
to
cross
235.
R
So
another
thing
that
I
did
want
to
mention
too.
If
this
site
looks
familiar,
maybe
you've
seen
it
before.
This
actually
was
in
front
of
the
commission.
Back
in
january
it
was
rezoned
so
initially
or
before
this.
This
project
kicked
off.
It
was
zoned
p2,
so
really
for
public
civic
institutional
type,
uses
kind
of
incongruence.
With
the
surrounding
capital
complex,
the
property
was
rezoned
to
mx3,
so
like
a
heavier
mixed
use:
commercial
district
with
the
intent
to
eventually
construct
a
fuel
station,
which
is
what
you're
seeing
tonight.
R
So
that
was
the
zoning
history
back
in
january
now
fast
forward,
we're
at
the
site
plan
stage
and
they're
trying
to
actually
develop
it
and
build
this
out.
So
I
know
we
talked
a
lot
about
the
storefront
building
regulations
earlier
tonight.
This
this
building
also
takes
on
the
storefront
form
and
a
little
bit
of
a
different
zoning
district.
So
it's
mx3
versus
an
mx1,
so
a
little
bit
more
of
a
heavier
commercial.
R
In
this
case,
the
des
moines
street
is
considered
a
primary
frontage
and
so
really
trying
to
have
the
building
cover
a
large
expanse
of
that
to
really
create
a
hardened
pedestrian
edge,
a
true
urban
edge,
especially
in
an
area.
If
you
walk
to
there,
it
doesn't
really
have
that
right
now
and
so
really,
with
the
relatively
thin
site
and
with
the
use
that's
proposed
as
a
fuel
station,
there
was
really
a
lot
of
nuance
that
had
to
be
had
and
discussions
that
staff
had
with
the
applicant.
R
There
was
some
design
decisions
that
really
had
to
be
made.
We
really
had
to
sit
down
with
the
applicant
and
decide.
Okay
is
what
is
proposed
meeting
the
intent
of
the
zoning
ordinance
and
generally
because
of
all
the
things
that
I
just
described.
The
staff
generally
does
feel
that
it
does.
You
know
we're
setting
the
building
close
to
the
corner.
We've
got
a
decent
amount
of
prime.
We
it
meets
the
primary
frontage
coverage
requirement.
We've
got
parking
located
in
the
behind
the
building.
Generally,
you
know
before
they.
R
It
was
actually
stretched
more
to
front
east
14th
street.
The
applicant
has
adjusted
that
trying
to
reduce
the
impervious
surface
area
as
much
as
possible.
So
generally
staff
felt
like
that.
You
know
hey.
We
they've
worked
with
us
a
little
bit.
We've
tried
to
get
a
building
that
we
want
and
a
site
that
contextually
is
kind
of
hard
to
develop,
to
try
to
develop
something
super
walkable
with
all
that
being
said,
there
were
some
elements,
particularly
on
the
building's
facade
that
did
not
conform
to
some
of
the
provisions
in
the
planning
design
ordinance.
R
R
The
big
thing
that
that
staff
noted,
though,
was
that
most
of
the
glass
or
almost
exclusively
all
of
the
glass
on
the
south,
as
well
as
the
east
facades
of
the
building.
So
if
you're
thinking
about
how
the
building
squares
the
corner
there,
the
ones
that
face
the
street,
they
utilize
spandrel
glass
per
the
design
ordinance
in
terms
of
having
ground
story,
transparency
that
faces
the
street
transparency
is
designed
as
glass
that
has
a
reflectance
factor
of
no
more
than
0.25
and
transmittance
factor
of
greater
than
50,
so
really
kind
of
in
layman's
terms.
R
What
that
means
is
really.
We
want
vision,
glass
where
the
occupants
inside
the
building
are
really
able
to
interact
with
the
street
realm
and
everybody.
That's
walking
in
the
street
can
see
inside
of
the
building,
it's
kind
of
promote
a
walkable
pedestrian-oriented
environment.
That's
not
really
supposed
to
mimic
a
blank
wall.
R
So
what
you're
looking
at
right
here
is
a
prospective
floor
plan
of
what
they're
proposing
so,
if
you're
following
my
cursor
this
side
here.
This
is
the
side
that
faces
to
the
north
towards
the
fuel,
pumps
and
staff.
As
we
were
looking
at
this,
while
we
we
did
push
them
to
really
cite
the
building
close
to
both
street
frontages
and
to
the
corner
to
try
to
promote
a
pedestrian-oriented
environment.
R
R
R
R
R
R
The
one
thing
that
I
did
want
to
get
into,
though,
that
that
staff
is
asking
of
the
applicant
and
that
really
is
sort
of
tasked
with
the
to
the
commission
tonight
to
discuss
and
and
lead
us
down.
That
path
is
the
entrance
here
and
I
know
we
went
back
applicant
and
myself
and
our
team.
We
went
back
and
forth
with
this
because
of
the
utilization
of
spandrel
glass
on
most
of
the
facade,
we
would
want
to
see
a
little
bit
more
of
a
pronunciation
with
this
entrance
here.
R
We
understand
that
it
is
a
public
entrance.
It
is
going
to
be
open
during
store
hours,
but
we
would
like
to
see
some
more
features
that
would
elevate
it
as
a
public
entrance
if
you're
working
at
the
state
capitol
complex
or
if
you
are
living
in
the
neighborhood
on
the
other
side
of
east
14th
or
maybe
you're
walking
down
from
east
high
school.
We
want
this
to
be
pronounced
and
and
say
hey.
R
But
we've
we've
said:
there's
a
variety
of
elements
that
you
can
include
like
a
double
door
or
maybe
adding
a
canopy,
or
maybe
some
some
lights
or
some
other
architectural
features.
That
would
really
delineate
that
as
hey,
this
is
a
primary
public
entrance.
It's
not
just
the
back
of
the
building,
even
though
functionally
it
actually
is.
R
So
kind
of
moving
into
part
two
of
the
staff
recommendation
here
or
the
staff
report,
the
other
couple
design
alternatives
were
for
the
utilization
of
rock
as
a
ground
cover
material
as
well
as
the
trash
enclosure
gates.
So
a
little
bit
more
of
a
site
plan
item
in
terms
of
the
site,
design
elements
getting
into,
and
I'm
going
to
just
go
on
the
staff
report
here.
Sorry
about
that.
R
So,
just
digging
into
the
staff
recommendation,
I
tried
to
run
through
some
of
that
workflow
and
some
of
the
nuance
that
staff
was
was
trying
to
reach
with
the
applicant
the
other
two
items,
one
being
the
rock
and
tubing
the
trash
enclosure
gates,
riding
the
rock
per
our
landscaping
ordnance.
Just
generally,
a
rock
is
not
a
permitted
ground
cover
material,
so
per
chapter
135,
article
7,
section
3.
generally,
all
sites
should
be
covered
with
either
grass
hardscape
or
like
an
organic
cover
like
a
like.
A
wood
chip
mulch
or
something
like
that.
R
So
rock
just
in
general,
is
not
allowed
to
be
used
as
a
general
ground
cover
or
in
planting
beds,
and
there's
really
like
four
main
reasons
for
that.
The
first
one
would
be
a
drainage
mechanism.
So
talk
to
our
engineering
department,
really
rock
does
not
have
the
same
basically,
the
same
qualities
as
like
soil
or
grass
or
vegetation
and
flooding
is
a
pretty
sensitive
thing
in
des
moines.
R
So
in
terms
of
storm
water
management
staff
doesn't
really
feel
it's
appropriate
to
be
approving
rock
to
be
developed
on
new
new
construction
sites
like
the
one
that
you're
seeing
today.
So
that
was
a
first
and
foremost
issue.
Second,
one
would
be
impacts
on
trees
and
landscaping,
so
rock
really
does
not
promote
a
hospitable
environment
for
tree
root
growth,
as
well
as
other
types
of
landscaping.
R
It's
not
going
to
last
as
long
it's
more
likely
to
die,
especially
we
haven't
had
a
lot
of
rain
this
summer,
so
you
can
imagine
what
a
new
tree
would
would
be
doing
in
a
bed
of
recently
placed
rock
third
more
of
a
traffic
perspective.
It's
actually
thought
of
as
a
safety
concern,
especially
if
it's
in
the
right
of
way
or
even
near
the
right
of
way
it
can
trickle
out
of
there
if
you
guys
have
been,
maybe
in
some
other
sites
around
the
city.
R
There's
some
planter
beds
that
do
have
rock
those
were
kind
of
legacy
planter
beds
that
may
have
been
approved
before
the
adoption
of
the
the
new
zoning
code
in
2019
but
rocket
it
skips
at
it
all
the
time
it
gets
on
the
sidewalk
it
gets
on
the
streets.
It's
a
tripping
hazard,
it's
a
hazard
for
motorcyclists
and
bicyclists,
and
so
we
as
staff
our
position.
You
know
planning
staff
as
well
as
traffic
and
transportation
staff.
R
This
one's
pretty
simple
so
with
in
the
city
of
des
moines,
for
new
trash
enclosures
you're
required
to
utilize
18
gauge
metal
gates,
which
is
really
just
a
more
durable
metal.
That's
really
what
it
comes
down
to
the
applicant
is
proposing
a
24
gauge
metal.
This
is
really
not
an
aesthetic
item.
I
I
know
a
lot
of
times.
Some
of
these
design
alternatives
might
seem
really
subjective
or
aesthetic.
The
main
concern
here
with
staff
is
it's
really
a
durability
piece
anecdotally
talking
to
zoning
enforcement
staff.
R
They
have
problems
all
the
time
with
trash
enclosure
gates.
I
think,
with
the
enclosure
that
they're
proposing
in
terms
of
the
wall
they've
got
masonry.
It's
going
to
be
nice.
There's
not
really
a
question
of
the
durability
with
that,
but
it's
the
gates
they
get
bumped
into
a
lot.
As
you
know,
in
iowa
we
have
a
lot
of
different
weather
conditions.
R
Extreme
temperatures
snow
things
like
that,
and
this
this
site
is
going
to
have
heavy
use
of
a
trash
enclosure.
It's
a
fuel
station,
it's
probably
going
to
be
pretty
busy.
It's
a
high
traffic
corridor,
they're
also
selling
foods.
There's
many
people
going
in
and
out
there
all
the
time,
and
so
with
that
heavy
use
staff
really
really
notes
that
hey.
We
should
be
using
the
the
code
compliant
18
gauge
metal
and
just
historically
as
well
staff.
R
You
know
sometimes,
as
you
guys
know,
we
have
the
type
1
design
alternative
process
where
staff
can
consider
some
elements
at
an
administrative
level.
Trash
enclosures
fall
into
the
landscaping
section
of
city
code,
so
everything
in
there
is
really
at
least
initially
considered
as
a
type
one
design
alternative
with
pre-existing
sites
a
lot
of
times,
staff
were
were
sensitive
to
that.
You
know,
we
understand,
hey,
you
know,
maybe
you're
just
making
some
changes
to
the
building,
doing
some
site
improvements.
R
Okay,
we
can
kind
of
compromise
and
be
a
little
bit
flexible
on
on
what
trash
enclosure
you're
proposing.
But
with
this
as
a
new
construction
site,
staff
feels
that
we
should
fully
implement
the
provisions
of
the
zoning
code
and
that
would
be
an
18
gauge
panel
over
the
24
gauge,
so
just
to
summarize
parts
a
through
d.
R
So
those
were
the
the
building
elements
that
we
talked
about
earlier
relating
to
the
transparency,
some
of
the
occupied
space
requirements,
as
well
as
some
of
the
entryway
requirements,
staff
recommending
recommends
approval
of
the
site
plan
and
those
design
alternative
requests,
subject
to
a
revised
submittal
coming
in
from
the
applicant.
That
would
demonstrate
some
of
those
alternative
or
additional
architectural
items
that
they
could
utilize
with
that
entrance.
R
F
I
do
have
one
concern.
I
understand
that
we
may
not
always
be
on
the
same
page
here,
but
the
the
rock
one
bothers
me
aggressively,
because
the
last
time
that
we
actually
brought
this
up
the
projectile
piece
is
brought
up
without
evidence
is
also
brought
up
as
being
the
source
of
blm
breaking
windows,
with
a
twenty
thousand
foot
pound
break
limit,
which
is
non-factual
nonsensical,
which
makes
me
wonder
if
we're
actually
proposing
something
here,
as
fact
that
it's
just
not
real,
that
part
seems
bothersome
to
me
if
they
kill
trees.
F
Fine,
if
we
don't
like
like
them,
because
we
don't
like
the
look
fine,
even
though
we
have
them
a
bunch
of
places.
I
really
hope
we
can
end
that
projectile
discussion
because
it
seems
like
it
was
grounded
in
like
social
bias
than
it
was.
In
fact,
that
was
really
problematic
at
the
time
and
it
seems
crazy
to
say
it
again.
R
G
J
C
Try
to
walk
nick
while
you're
scrolling
back
I'll
go
ahead
and
chime
in
a
little
bit
on
what
we
were
thinking.
What
we're
looking
for.
We
recognize
that
that
that
facade
is
a
lot
of
back
of
house
operations,
so
there's
not,
and
the
there's
not
going
to
be
from
our
perspective,
it's
reasonable
not
to
have
as
much
glass
as
our
code
would
normally
require
for
storefront
building.
However,
we
think
there
needs
to
be
more
emphasis
on
that
entrance
and
primarily
what
our
thoughts
were
were
either
like
a
double
door.
C
F
C
C
It
might
impact
a
little
bit
of
the
storage
rooms
and-
and
I
know,
there's
a
cooler
to
the
right
of
that
door,
but
I
mean
we'll
let
that
that's
why
we
wrote
the
staff
recommendation
open-ended,
so
we
could
continue
to
have
dialogue.
We
didn't
want
to
come
here
today
and
say:
you've
got
to
absolutely
do
this.
These
are
what
we're
saying
see
a
couple
ideas
work
with
us
on
it
and
we'll
get
it
figured
out.
C
I
I
don't
know
about
an
awning.
I
think
that
was
just,
I
think,
really.
What
we're
looking
for
is
mostly
glass,
I
think
on
it.
You
know
that,
certainly
if
the
applicant
had
a
sense
of
how
they
would
do
that,
I
wouldn't
want
it
to
just
necessarily
be
the
door
to
kind
of
have
to
encompass
the
whole
thing
so
that
I
don't
know
that
they'll
want
to
do
that.
But,
to
me
really
what's
important
is
the
the
del
you
know
the
additional
glass
to
give
that
a
stronger
presence.
C
J
C
The
additional
around
the
door,
so
the
door-
you
can
see
that
says
vision,
so
we're
just
we're
saying
in
that
area
of
the
door
in
a
very
limited
area.
Do
clear,
glass
or
you
know,
vision,
glass,
leave
this.
You
know
it
would
impact,
depending
on
how
you
treat
that
it's
going
to
impact
the
other
rib.
You
know
those
ribbons
of
spandrel
to
the
either
direction,
but
for
largely
large
part,
those
would
all
stay
intact.
J
The
only
reason
why
I'm
pressing
on
this
I
went
to
east
high
school
that
place
is
very,
very,
very
high
traffic
traffic
during
a
lunch
hour,
so
you'll
have
people
walking
and
visiting
and
definitely
from
the
south
end
there's
a
bunch
of
apartments
as
well.
They
currently
frequent
quick
trip,
but
I
can
see
them
spending
their
dollars
there
at
casey's.
So
I
guess
my
real
concern
is
I
I
wanted
to
make
sure
it's
safe
for
high
school
kids
to
be
able
to
get
that
access
that
space
and
those
people
from
the
apartments.
C
Out
sure
kind
of
the
front
door
not
excuse
me
the
back
door
area
along
the
street
just
just
a
little
bit
more
slide
it
over
there
we
go.
You
can
kind
of
see
where
you
have
the
rhythm
of
the
three
span:
roll
windows
to
your
left
and
the
ribbon
of
the
two
to
the
right
to
do
what
staff
is
asking
for.
You
know
that
area
that
says
hallway.
C
You
know
that
some
of
that
is
going
to
have
to
get.
It
would
be
that
had
to
be
kind
of
widened
out
those
you
might
lose
one
two
of
the
spandrel
pieces,
but
in
that
area
that
central
area
to
immediately
around
the
door,
whether
it's
a
double
door,
it's
a
single
door
with
side
lights
and
the
transom
you're,
just
getting
a
little
more
glass
in
that
middle.
Does
that
make
sense
to
you?
I
S
My
name
is
daniel
willrick,
I'm
with
pells
design
services
at
2323,
dixon
street
and
we're
working
with
casey's
to
get
this
project
done.
Staff
has
been
really
good
to
work
with.
To
get
to
this
point.
We're
glad
that
we
were
able
to
have
a
discussion
around
the
span
of
glass,
because
I
mean
clearly
we
could
put
in
clear
glass
but
you'd
see
a
side
of
a
cooler.
So
that's
you
know,
probably
not
ideal,
either
right.
S
So
one
of
the
ways
that
we
do
the
spander
glass
to
help,
I
don't
know
how
familiar
you
guys
are
with
it,
but
a
traditional,
spanner
glass
is
one
pane
of
glass
painted
on
the
back
and
it
doesn't
even
look
like
glass.
The
way
we
do
it
is.
We
use
a
one
inch
insulated
glass
paint
the
very
back
surface
so
that
it
has
a
closer
look
to
what
clear
glass
would,
during
the
day
when
you're
getting
that
reflection
from
the
sunlight
and
things.
S
In
terms
of
precedent,
we
did
something
very
similar
on
the
forest
avenue
non-fuel
site
a
year
or
two
ago.
I
came
here
how
long
ago
that
was,
but
we
had
the
same
discussion
came
to
the
same
conclusion
in
a
couple
locations
on
that
site.
So
I
think
you
know
we're
good
with
the
compromise
of
the
spandrel
glass.
S
S
I
know
we're
talking
about
minor
changes,
but
the
reality
is
too
the
way
casey's
buys
their
projects.
Is
they
buy
them
ahead?
So
you
know
it?
Theoretically,
I
don't
know
specifically
for
this
project,
but
theoretically
75
that
building
could
be
sitting
in
their
warehouse
already
just
waiting
for
the
go
to
bring
it
out
or
on
their
in
their
vendor's
yard.
S
So
that's
why,
typically,
when
we
talk
about
these
cases
projects,
we
want
to
work
with
the
city,
but
we
also
want
to
try
to
stay
as
true
to
the
pro
or
the
the
sort
of
standard,
as
we
can
for
those
reasons.
One
thing
I
do
want
to
show:
let's
see
I'm
going
to
scroll
back
to
our,
so
that's
the
north
side
or
is
my
south.
Can
I
get
my
south
elevation
because
I
just
want
to
show
what
the
standard
south
elevation
looks
like
before
we
do
anything
to
it.
S
S
So
we've
done
all
those
things
to
bring
up
the
quality
of
the
entrance
of
this
side,
and
I
just
want
to
show
you
if
I
can
get
the
I
guess
in
school.
They
call
them
elmos
yeah,
had
we
not
had
we
built
the
prototype,
as
is
this
is
kind
of,
and
this
one
isn't
cool
and
colored.
But
this
is
what
the
back
would
look
like.
S
All
right,
you
can
see
it's
very
it's
a
big
brick
wall.
It's
got
all
our
electrical
utilities.
It's
got
the
minimal
door
with
the
kind
of
you
know,
minimal,
canopy
and
a
little
signage.
So
I
think
when
we
talk
about
as
casey's
gone
to
the
effort
to
improve
the
look
of
that
side
of
the
building
to
go
from
that
to
what
we
have
here,
we've
certainly
gone
a
long
ways
to
do
that.
S
Not
that
saying
asking
for
more,
isn't
something
that
we
you
do.
I
think
I
just
think
we're
hesitant
to
to
make
any
more
changes
of
that
side.
That
would
affect
the
layout
even
minimally,
because,
again,
with
the
way
they
buy
their
stores.
That
cooler
is
a
set
size
that
back
room
on
the
other
side
is
already
very
tight.
S
You
know
we
might
start
getting
into
some
accessibility
issues
if
we
tighten
things
up
anymore,
the
there
is
a
little
bit
of
room
in
that
hallway,
but
we've
got
a
little
shaft
wall,
a
little
shaft
in
that
one
corner:
that's
housing,
some
utilities
for
the
for
the
cooler
condensers
and
things.
So
it's
not
so
easy
to
just
sort
of
take
over
that
hallway
space.
S
I
was
a
kid
once
I
wasn't.
I
wouldn't
walk
all
the
way
around
to
des
moines
street
I'd
cut
across
the
fuel
flot
and
rock
in
that
north
door
right.
So
that's
where
I'm
coming
in
as
a
kid
coming
from
east.
This
is
really
serving
the
folks
that
might
walk
over
from
the
capitol
building
or
parts
to
the
south
right.
So
so
really,
I
guess
that's
where
I
would
be
at
with
the
with
the
architectural
elements
I
mean
really.
I
think
we're
in
agreement
with
what
staff
said.
S
I
think
our
offering
to
the
request
of
a
little
more
work
back.
There
would
be
that
transom
above
the
door
versus
a
double
door
or
some
side
lights,
which
yeah
in
terms
of
the
site
items
the
the
rock
in
the
the
planning
bed,
as
we
were
putting
that
together,
we
looked
across
the
street
at
the
mcdonald's,
which
I
think
was
from
what
our
my
site
guy
told
me
today
was
was
done
after
the
new
site
planning
at
least
was
built
after
the
new
site.
S
Zoning
ordinances
were
in
place,
maybe
it
was
approved
before,
but
it
was
certainly
built
after
and
they
have
rock
in
their
planning
bed
with
some
ornamental
grasses
and
we're
talking
about
rock
in
a
planting
bed
with
some
hedges
to
form
that
sort
of
visual
a
little
bit
of
a
visual
barrier.
So
I
think
you
know
we'd
like
to
keep
the
rock
you
know
forced
to
do
something
different.
I'm
told
that
rick
chips
would
be
a
reasonable
alternative.
From
our
standpoint,
I
think
anything
else,
mulch
or
whatever
just
becomes
very
maintenance
heavy.
S
S
I
mean
it's
visually,
it's
not
going
to
change
anything.
I
think
it's
just
a
again.
It's
that
component
of
casey's
buys
these
buildings
over
and
over
and
out
ahead,
so
that
when
it's
time
to
go,
they
can
go
because
the
faster
they
get
it
open,
the
faster
they
can
start
serving
the
community
and
and
start
generating
revenue.
So
you
know
we'd
certainly
like
to
keep
it
as
what
we
typically
do.
For
that
reason,
casey's
is
going
to
take
care
of
their
properties.
They
typically
do
so.
S
J
Yes,
what
are
the
the
pedestrians
that
are
walking's
access
points?
Can
you
show
that
on
a
map,
so
if
they
were
coming
from
the
north
and
the
south,
how
would
that
look
so
essentially,
if
they're
yeah,
if
they're
coming
from
east
high
school,
how
are
they
gonna?
What's
the
quickest
way
to
yeah
and
is
it
safe.
C
S
S
J
S
L
S
Already
a
wider
door
than
a
typical
door,
I
mean
it
is
a
three
and
a
half
foot
door.
What
I
was
suggesting
is
we
could
put
this
what
they
call
a
transom
window,
the
smaller
window
above
the
door,
and
that
could
be
clear
to
bring
it
up.
I
guess
you
know
architecturally
on
that
side
of
the
building
that
would
put
the
top
of
that
door
at
the
same
level
as
the
top
of
those
windows
that
the
spangled
glass
windows
that
we're
proposing.
S
So
you
know
aesthetically
that
would
make
sense
regardless
so,
but
that
little
shaft
in
the
corner.
You
know
there
is
some
utilities
and
there
are
some
I
say
utilities,
but
there
are
some
things
in
there
that
service
that
cooler.
So
it's
that's
not
just
there
to
take
up
some
space,
it's
actually
hiding
that
so
that
it
doesn't
become
a
damage.
Just
you
know,
folks
walk
through
that
space,
so
we
don't
have
a
ton.
I
mean
you're
not
going
to
get
a
double
door
in
there.
You
barely
get
a
double
door
in
there.
S
F
Is
there
a
significant
difference,
different
business
model
for
this
casey's
versus
one
on
eighth
street
in
cedar
rapids,
which
does
have
two
double-sided
doors
and
really
does
have
two
entries,
which
is
what
you
sort
of
have
here?
You
have
pedestrian
side
and
fuel
side.
They
have
a
similar
situation.
Is
there
something
significantly
different?
That
means
that
casey
wouldn't
be
able
to
accommodate
that
for
some
reason,.
S
Customer
traffic
revenue
size
of
site
makes
a
difference.
You
know
this
site
that
building
I
would,
I
don't
know
exactly
which
building
you're
talking
about,
but
I
would
guess
it's
a
little
bit
bigger
building
than
this
one
is
which
then
does
allow
for
a
wider
rear
door.
If
you
look
at
their
truck
stop
model,
yeah
they've
got
double
doors
on
both
sides,
but
we're
talking
huge
sites.
F
S
Yeah,
I
guess
I
didn't.
I
wasn't
part
of
that
project,
so
I'm
not
sure,
but
I
know
that
they
do.
They
do
look
at
different
sites
in
different
ways
and
have
different
models
they'll
put
on
them,
and
this
is
the
one
that
fits
this
site
from
their
perspective,
and
so
that's
the
that's.
The
single
door
rear
door
in
this
case.
S
A
I
J
R
Jason
can
button,
I
think
we
have
approved
24
gauge
gates,
but
that's
typically
been
like
at
a
pre-existing
site
where,
like
maybe
they
have
an
existing
building
they're
doing
some
site
improvements,
they're
upgrading
their
trash
enclosure.
I
think
we
have
allowed
that
in
the
past,
but
the
historic
position
of
staff.
If
you're
doing
a
new
build
like
this,
you
should
comply
with
article
7,
which
would
require
18
gauge.
R
C
C
F
R
They
had
a
pre-application,
I
think
in
late
2020,
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
so
that's
kind
of
like
an
initial
scoping
meeting
to
figure
out
hey
we're
interested
in
the
site.
The
rezoning,
like
I
mentioned,
went
before
you
guys
in
january
of
this
year
it
was
passed
by
council
in
february.
This
has
been
their
site
plan.
I
think
late
march
and
now
we're
at
this
point
in
mid-august.
F
F
F
O
Well,
I
would
like
to
kill
me
and
stay
here
all
night
make
a
friendly
amendment.
I
would
agree
with
if
you
are
removing
the
rock
waiver.
I
would
like
to
add
that
back
in,
I
do
think
it
adds
a
safety
component
with
all
that
traffic.
That's
on
east
14th
and
assuming
that
there
will
be
a
lot
of
pedestrian
traffic
as
well
from
the
high
school.
J
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
a
good
amendment.
I
mean
when
we
think
of
high
school
kids.
We
linger,
I
mean
when
I
was
high
school
kid
I
would
linger
and
we
would
just
fool
around
shoot
the
stuff
and
kick
rocks,
and
I
I
feel
like
it's
a
good
safety
concern
and
a
good
adjustment
cases.
We
love
you
guys.
We
appreciate
you
but
yeah.
I
see
people
riding
bikes
and
motorcycles
through
there.
I'm
eastside,
true
and
true
so
yeah
safety,
wise
I'd
like
to
keep
that.
F
I
think
what
staff
is
is
that
casey's
has
to
come
back
with
a
design
change
that
is
approved,
that
staff
is
okay
with,
and
I
was
saying
there
that
my
preference
is
a
double
door
with
glass
over
top.
That
would
actually
look
like
what
8th
street
in
cedar
rapids
is,
but
I
don't
think
we're
tied
to
that.
I
think
we're
giving
staff
flexibility
on
that
to
say:
hey
come
back
with
something
we
approve
we're
okay
with,
we
would
still
require
it
not
to
be
rock,
but
with
f
cut
means
that
you
can
do
24
gauge.