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From YouTube: 10-20-22 Plan & Zoning Commission
Description
Des Moines Plan & Zoning Commission meeting on Thursday, Oct. 20, 2022.
View the agenda: https://DSM.city/PZatHome
A
A
A
A
Yeah
I'll
go
ahead
and
give
an
introduction.
Katie
Hernandez
is
here
with
us
tonight
at
the
office
of
Economic
Development,
to
give
a
5
30
presentation
to
the
commission
on
an
item
that
is
on
your
agenda
tonight
for
the
Southeast
14th
Street
urban
renewal
plan
5
30
sessions,
you
know
informational
sessions.
So
that's
why
we're
not
too
worried
about.
You
know
who's
here
yet
or
not,
but
but
would
you
think
it's
a
good
opportunity
to
go?
You
know
a
little
more
in
depth.
Take
a
little
time.
A
B
The
urban
annual
plan
is
a
is
the
a
long-term
plan
that
includes
a
map
of
the
area,
legal
description
plan,
objectives,
relationship
to
the
comp
plan
and
then
a
description
of
each
Urban
enrolled
project
that
is
within
the
urban
and
oil
boundary
urban
renewal.
Is
it
facilitates
tax,
increment
financing,
which
is
one
of
the
few
and
major
Economic
Development
tools
that
cities
have
within
the
state
of
Iowa?
We
also
utilized
tax
abatement,
which
is
a
little
bit
more
flexible
and
widely
used.
B
B
Tiff
is
a
tool
that
provides
for
public
improvements,
encourages
economic
investment
within
the
urban
animal
area
related
to
that
to
retaining
a
growing
employment
related
to
those
Economic
Development
activities,
reducing
slum
and
blight
and
then
inspiring
Rehabilitation
and
revitalization
within
the
urban
animal
area.
I
will
make
a
note.
Urban
renewal
is
dependent
upon
private
investment,
so
it
is
really
the
private
investment
driving
urban
renewal.
B
B
B
Plan
objectives-
I
am
there's
quite
a
few
within
this
plan.
I
will
kind
of
make
an
important
note
that
that
this
is
a
framework
to
use,
as
we
intend
to
encourage
Redevelopment
within
this
Urban
animal
area.
So
these
goals
are
very
broad,
sweeping
and
really
intending
to
tie
the
plan.
Dsm
goals
with
with
this
urban
renewal
area.
B
B
B
One
important
note
to
make
again
I
said
earlier:
this
is
a
broad,
sweeping,
Urban
animal
plan.
We
do
not
have
articulated
projects
at
this
time
within
the
urban
annual
boundary.
This
is
a
little
bit
of
a
different
approach
that
we're
taking
for
this
this
proposal,
renewal
plan,
typically
projects,
are
driving
the
need
for
urban
and
wool,
in
this
case,
we're
we're
introducing
this
plan
as
an
opera
as
an
as
an
act
of
encouraging
new
or
encouraging
private
investment
along
this.
This
corridor.
B
C
B
B
If
I
think
that's
been
covered
at
this,
this
Commission
meeting
in
the
past,
so
I
will
spare
you
the
details,
if
you,
if
you
are
already
well
versed
on
that,
yes,
okay,
so
tax
increment
financing,
it's
basically
a
model
to
capture
new
taxes
as
a
result
of
any
development
or
Redevelopment
project.
Those
are
typically
used
for
private
private
development
as
an
incentive.
B
The
city
of
Des
Moines
does
a
pretty
thorough
and
thorough
financial
analysis
of
each
project,
so
Tiff
is
used
as
a
last
Source
in
as
a
way
to
make
the
project
happen.
Tiff
can
also
be
used
for
public
infrastructure
improvements
within
the
urban
animal
area
boundary.
So
the
concept
is
setting
the
base,
which
is
the
orange
portion,
and
that
I
refer
to
often
times
as
the
pre-construction
valuation.
B
D
D
B
D
A
If
I
could-
and
maybe
you
maybe
you're-
going
to
go
down
this
path
but
I
think
from
my
perspective,
there's
been
a
lot
of
planning
and
push
to
see
Redevelopment
on
East
14th,
Street
Southeast,
14th
Street.
That
has,
and
it's
not
occurred,
and
so
I
think
this
is
as
I
understand
it.
This
is
seen
as
an
opportunity
to
try
to
start
something
that
we've
been
talking
about
for
a
long
time,
but
have
yet
to
really
see
anything
happen,
so
it's
it
so
taking
the
unique
circumstance
of
knowing
hey.
A
You
know
this
is
a
little
different,
but
this
is
an
area.
That's
struggling
needs
investment.
How
can
we
facilitate
that?
We've
been
talking
about
for
a
long
time,
I
think
if
you
were
to
you
know,
if
we
had
neighbors
that
you
know
from
the
neighborhood
groups
that
you
met
with
you
know
they
would
speak
to
their
concerns
about
both
Army
Post
Road
and
Southeast
14th
Street
and
just
the
general
condition
of
as
long
as
I've
worked
here.
D
Okay,
so
we're
saying
that,
basically,
this
area
we've
tried
a
bunch,
it
doesn't
work
in
other
areas.
We
haven't
tried
as
much
so
we're
trying
this
one
and
it
takes
presence
over
the
other
area
we're
talking
about
because,
like
we
were
out
of
options-
and
this
is
we're
next
best
choice-
is
that
generally,
what
we're
saying.
B
B
Tax
abatement
is
more
of
a
reduction
of
an
expense
line
item
to
a
developer
year
over
year.
So
it's
really
kind
of
a
suspension
of
taxes.
Tiff
is
a
rebate
which
and
I
will
also
mention
to
get
in
kind
of
into
the
Nuance
of
Tiff.
Tiff
is
not
all
tax.
The
the
full
tax
levy,
the
the
The
Debt
Service
levies,
are
reduced
from
the
full
tax
levy,
so
Tiff
is
going
to
be
typically
80
to
84
of
the
full
tax
levy.
B
D
B
A
D
Of
it
yeah
I
guess
so,
there's
a
lot
of
commercial
area
here.
So
if
you're
saying
oh
so
if
we
actually
got
the
full
impact
of
this,
this
thing
worked
exactly
spectacular
as
you
wanted
right,
which
seems
like
it's
heavily
commercial.
You
know
how
many
new
or
retained
residents
do.
We
think
this
will
actually
either
generate
or
retain.
Who
would
then
be?
You
know,
residential
tax,
paying
citizens.
B
B
B
D
Just
meaning
you've
been
based
off
historic,
so
we're
saying
is
even
based
off
historicals
looking
at
past
stuff,
we
really
just
have
no
way
of
saying:
okay
well,
hey
if
we,
if
we
do
this
and
ideally
we're
bringing
in
this
level
of
commercial
investment
right
which
they
aren't
paying
taxes
on
the
extra
benefit
right,
you
know
for
20
years
right.
We
don't
really
know
how
many
more
residents
we'll
actually
be
paying
for
trash
paying
for
those
things
versus
commuting
in
from
Indianola
or
commuting
in
from
Norwalk
or
somewhere
else.
D
B
E
D
Let
me
throw
out
three
quickly
and
if
fit
pick
one's
one
of
you,
which
ones
you
want
to
answer.
So
three
questions
are:
if
fully
realized,
how
much
revenue
will
this
project
bring
in
over
the
next
20
years?
Right,
that's
new
Revenue
number
two:
how
do
you
intend
to
calculate
and
evaluate
the
urp's
effectiveness
with
respect
to
your
social
Equity
item
that
you
identify
like?
D
How
do
you
even
measure
that
and
the
last
one
is
for
the
last
20
projects
in
Des
Moines
that
are
over
20
years
old
you've
got
that
dark
blue
portion
there
right
what
has
been
the
actual
impact
of
those
last
20
projects?
Has
the
actual
tax
base
gone
up
as
per
this
chart
or
if
we
missed
it,
so
those
are
my
three.
If
you
want
to
answer
any
of
them?
Fine,
if
you
don't
I'll
yield
the
will
can.
B
Sounded
I
think
pretty
complicated.
The
first
one
was
the
full
potential
of
the
urban
animal
area
and
I
think
that's
a
really
interest,
interesting
thing
to
study
being
that
this
is
a
proactive
Urban
animal
area.
We
just
we
don't
we
don't
know
what
the
development's
going
to
what
what
the
development
is
going
to
be.
I,
think
you
know
we
could
make
inferences
based
on
the
zoning
allowance
and
what
the
pro
you
know
on
the
on
the
the
capacity.
B
D
Wait:
I
think
that
I
guess
my
point
is:
are
they
in-depth
questions
but
yes,
I've
been
asking
for
over
a
year,
Swenson
from
Iowa
state
has
done
these
Studies.
Have
we
looked
into
that
because
I've
been
told,
we
don't
know
any
experts
that
can
do
it.
We've
got
two
at
Drake.
That
I
know
can
do
this
project
so
I'm
curious.
If
we
have
a
willingness
to
actually
look
into
that,
it
is
not
that
we
lack
the
resources
in
town
to
do
it.
These
are
no.
These
are
able
to
be
no
numbers
based
off
history.
A
I
I,
don't
think
Katie's
in
a
position
to
to
talk
about
the
broader
policy
and
Analysis
and
commitments
to
having
in
debt.
You
know
bringing
a
Consultants
to
do
in-depth
analysis.
I
mean
I
I.
We
appreciate
what
you're
saying,
but
I
I,
don't
think
it's
fair
for
Katie
to
be
put
in
the
position
to
try
to
respond
to
that
question,
because
that's
that
really
her
her
role.
So
quick.
D
F
D
E
Oh
yeah,
thank
you
madam
chair.
You
know
I,
think
the
the
city
has
done
a
good
job
of
an
analysis
in
terms
of
the
blight
and
some
along
this
Corridor
and
it's
really
quite
a
an
enlightening,
and
rather
depressing
picture.
However,
if
that
same
survey
were
done
on
the
areas
that
are
adjacent
to
the
corridor,
I
think
you'd
find
something
quite
different
indeed.
E
E
So
my
question
is
these
two
corridors
act
together
in
concert
with
one
another,
and
my
question
is:
what
is
the
city
doing
in
terms
of
East
14th
Street,
along
this
same
line,
because
anyone
that
reads
the
newspaper
or
watches
the
news
or
goes
online
for
news
knows
that
Eastport
train
is
experiencing
a
considerable
amount
of
difficulty
in
terms
of
traffic
congestion,
crime
and
slum
and
blight.
So
my
question
is:
what
is
the
city
of
Des
Moines
doing
along
that
line
to
improve
the
entire
corridor.
B
E
I
appreciate
you
offering
that,
because
this
is
a
real
concern,
for
you
know
a
major
part
of
the
city
and
if
you
would
follow
up
along
this
line
and
if
the
city
would
follow
up
on
along
this
line
as
well,
I
think
that
it
would
be
a
major
benefit
and
a
help
for
a
part
of
the
city
that
could
use
this
help
and
also
a
corridor
that
is
experiencing
a
considerable
amount
of
difficulty.
Thank
you
and.
H
All
right,
thanks
along
the
lines
of
Will's
point.
My
question
relates
to
this
is
a
state
highway
and
a
lot
of
the
things
that
I
saw
in
the
report
were
multimodal
Transportation
related
I.
Think
you
mentioned
a
couple
of
those
as
well.
Does
this
give
us
a
little
more
leverage
with
the
state
to
have
some
of
those
transportation
multimodal
infrastructure
projects
along
this
stretch,
because
it
seems
like
that's
the
biggest
challenge
whenever
we're
as
a
city
we're
trying
to
improve
a
roadway?
That's
a
state
highway.
B
F
I
A
I
I
I
J
A
A
B
I
know
there's
a
Smith
along
South,
Southwest
9th,
which
is
an
additional
funding
stream
for
for
that
Corridor.
That
is,
you
know,
not
not
super
related
to
Tiff,
but
it
allows
for
additional
funding
for
the
improvements.
Alongside
this
time.
I
don't
know
the
history
with
the
Southwest
ninth
potential
for
urban
animal.
A
Just
from
a
planning
perspective
they
went,
there
was
a
some
planning
exercises
there,
Don
that
that
Schmidt
District
came
out
of
and
most
of
the
revenue
from
that
Schmidt
District
I
believe
is
going
towards
marketing
for
the
corridor
in
partnership
with
the
friends
of
Southwest,
9th
organization
and
I
think
they
are.
There's
been
some
talk
about
a
couple
pocket
locations
of
doing
some
improvements.
E
B
There
has
been
a
little
bit
of
coverage
on
this
Urban
animal
area.
I
know
that
two
media
stations
reached
out
for
just
a
a
small
spot
for
these
Urban
mineral
areas,
but
I
think
we
can
and
will
you
know,
actively
promote
this
opportunity
to
our
development
community
and
respond
to
any
inquiries
that
we
have
with
the
opportunity
of
urban
animal.
C
F
L
F
All
right,
sorry
we're
starting
a
little
late.
We
had
a
special
presentation:
welcome
to
the
October
20th
2022
meeting
of
the
city
in
of
Des
Moines
plan
and
Zoning
commission
I
will
start
by
reading
the
rules
and
procedures.
The
plan
and
Zoning
commission
is
generally
an
advisory
body
to
the
city
council.
The
city
council
will
hold
a
public
hearing
and
make
a
final
decision
on
all
matters
before
the
commission
other
than
site
plans
and
subdivision
Flats.
Unless
denials
or
conditional
conditional
approvals
thereof
are
appealed.
F
Please
contact
the
city,
clerk
or
development
services
department
staff
for
details
on
Council
hearings.
Applicant
will
be
given
10
minutes
to
present
the
request
proponents,
and
then
opponents
from
the
public
are
then
allowed
to
speak
in
that
order
with
each
speaker
allowed
a
maximum
of
five
minutes
applicant
is
then
allowed
five
minutes
for
rebuttal.
F
The
hearing
will
then
be
closed
and
the
commission
will
discuss
and
vote
on
the
issue.
All
comments
are
to
be
germane
to
the
item
under
consideration
and
speakers
are
to
maintain
a
courteous
manner.
Items
listed
on
the
consent
portion
of
the
agenda
will
not
be
individually
discussed
and
will
be
considered
for
approval
in
accordance
with
the
recommendation
in
the
staff
report,
unless
an
individual
present
or
member
of
the
commission
requests
that
the
item
be
removed
from
consent
and
considered
separately
under
the
public
hearing
agenda.
F
F
I
will
start
with
the
consent
agenda
items
I
want
to
start
with
item.
8
has
actually
been
withdrawn.
So
if
you're
here
for
item
eight,
we
are
not
discussing
that
tonight.
I'm,
just
letting
you
know
in
advance
item
number
one
determination
as
to
whether
the
proposed
Southeast
14th
Street
urban
renewal
plan
is
in
conformance
with
plan
DSM.
F
Anyone
in
the
public
that
will
remain
on
consent,
number
two
requests
from
Liberty
Holdings
owner
1626,
Dixon
Street
represented
by
Jeff
Tucker
regarding
the
vacation
of
150,
long
segment
of
Dixon
Court
right-of-way,
located
north
of
East
Washington
Ave.
As
anyone
on
the
commission
wish
to
hear
this
item.
F
Number
four
request
from
ilax
group
represented
by
Ben
schultes
for
two
Parcels
located
and
4600
East
14th,
a
determination
as
to
whether
requested
rezoning
is
in
plan
DSM.
Creating
our
tomorrow
plan
amend
plan
DSM
to
assign
industrial
within
a
community
node
future
land
use,
see
you
rezone
the
property
from
a
agricultural
District
to
i1
Industrial,
to
allow
industrial
use
and
coordination
with
property
adjacent
to
the
West.
F
Number
five
request
from
Barbara
RS
Smith,
represented
by
Ben
Johnson
for
review
and
approval
of
public
hearing
site
plan
for
type
2
design,
alternatives
for
property
at
3902,
Southeast
Court,
to
allow
construction
of
a
576
square
foot
detached
garage
in
the
rear
yard.
That
would
be
within
two
feet
of
the
north
side:
property
line
where
five
foot
minimum
setback
is
required.
F
A
D
N
N
A
N
And
I
can
give
a
brief
explanation
on
that
one.
If
you'd
like
this
is
the
Des
Moines
Waterworks
once
to
build
a
new
maintenance
facility.
The
only
reason
they
need
to
rezone
is
they
need
some
outdoor
storage
at
the
back
of
the
site,
so
we've
recommended
some
pretty
strict
conditions,
just
saying
that
the
permitted
uses
are
still
ex
plus
the
outdoor
storage
accessory
to
an
ex
use.
F
N
F
F
I
L
F
P
P
This
is
actually
facing
north
along
the
property
another
another
image
facing
More
Northwest
from
the
corner
right,
there's
the
sign,
Southeast
17th
Street.
So
it's
right
up
at
the
edge
of
Park
Avenue
Southeast
17th,
where
this
is
taken
and
then
here
is
a
photo
along.
The
frontage
of
the
property
facing
west.
P
And
so
there
a
little
history
with
this
item,
that's
in
front
of
us
today
in
2018
the
applicant
came
in
for
what
we
call
a
special
permit
under
the
old
zoning
code.
At
that
time
they
were,
they
received
approval
for
the
special
use
permit
to
allow
construction
of
the
facility.
That
is
that
was
that
was
shown
in
the
pictures
this.
This
is
more
of
a
diagram
of
the
size
of
that
garage.
P
P
P
Permit
request
in
front
of
boarding
board
of
adjustment.
However,
as
you
all
know,
in
2019
we
updated
and
added
a
or
we
updated
our
code
to
the
new
plan
DSM
and
that
option
to
go
to
board
of
adjustment
for
special
use.
Prevent
is
no
longer
there.
That
requires
them
to
first
come
to
us
to
rezone
the
property.
P
P
P
However,
the
the
property
is
zoned
to
n3a
Neighborhood
district
for
the
setting
and
for
the
use
that's
being
proposed
to
rezone
it
to
MX3
of
Staff.
Do
not
believe
that
this
would
be
the
appropriate
location.
Mx3
are
considered
more
of
our
high
density
corridors,
and
so
staff
does
not
feel
as
though
that
this
would
be
the
appropriate
place
to
rezone
the
property
as
it
sets
entirely
within
the
neighborhood.
P
P
Here.
Is
that
comment
they?
They
are
supportive
of
the
businesses
that
exists
there
today,
however,
rezoning
it
to
mx-3
is
is
not
what
they
don't
believe
that
it
would
be
the
appropriate
location
for
that,
knowing
knowing
that
the
applicant
would
have
the
opportunity
within
a
year
to
seek
a
youth
experience
in
front
of
the
board
of
adjustment.
P
And
so
for
that
reason,
staff
is
recommending
denial
of
the
requested
rezoning
to
be
found,
in
conformance
with
plans
existing
plan
DSM
future
land
use
designation
for
low
density
residential
staff
recommends
denial
of
the
request
to
amend
the
plan.
Dsn
plan
from
low-density
residential
to
community
mixed
and
staff
recommends
denial
of
the
proposed
rezoning
from
n3a
neighborhood
District
to
MX3
mixed-use
District.
F
Q
Q
Statements
that
they
made
that
I
was
eligible
to
come
back
for
a
checkup
to
make
sure
everything
was
good
and
nothing
turned
into
a
junkyard
after
covid
all
that
was
done.
Everybody
got
back
in
the
offices,
I
went
to
the
online
portal
and
there's
no
option
available
so
now
I'm
here
applying
for
the
rezone
I'm,
not
really
for
it,
I
think,
as
everybody
else
recommends,
or
you
know,
the
neighborhood
association
recommends
just
leaving
it
at
it.
As
is
I,
don't
really
have
anything
else
on
that
any
questions.
A
Been
doing
we've
had
this
come
up
before
that
you
can't
seek
a
use,
variance
until
you've
been
denied
rezoning,
correct
and
just
to
clarify.
Under
the
previous
code,
Auto
Repair
was
eligible
for
as
a
home
occupation
use
which
it
is
not.
We
still
have
home
occupations,
but
it's
just
not
one
that
we
have
in
our
code
and
certainly
given
the
investment
that's
been
made
at
the
property.
I
think
the
applicant
has
hardship.
A
C
F
R
Right,
my
name
is
Kelly
Mills
I
live
with
16
Chinese
Park
Avenue
I
am
the
neighbor
of
Sheldon
just
to
the
West,
so
our
entire
property
line
is
together.
My
house
is
the
closest
to
him.
Lived
there
14
years,
I
he's
never
had
an
issue.
My
issue
is
I,
don't
want
a
commercial
property
in
such
a
residential.
We
already
have
so
many
issues
on
14th
and
Park
that
if
say
you
become
that
becomes
a
commercial
property.
My
main
concern
is
he
moves.
What
does
it
become?
Next?
We
already
have
those
problems.
R
F
E
A
And
it
would
be
valid
as
long
as
he
continues
to
operate
unless
the
board
would
choose
to
put
some
sort
of
time
frame
on
it,
based
off
of
some
rationale
like
maybe
for
the
life
of
the
building
kind
of
thing,
because
I
I
think
his
he
helped
the
case
he
should
be
making.
Is
the
you
know
the
physical
investment
on
the
property
and
so
I
think
you
could
tie
that
relief
to
the
life
of
the
building.
H
I've
got
a
procedural
question
for
staff
because
we
have
seen
a
lot
of
these.
Well,
maybe
not
a
lot.
A
handful
of
these
come
through
the
board
through
the
commission
that
are
aware
that
they
have
to
go
through
the
board
after
rejection
and
they're
in
favor
of
that,
is
there
a
way
for
us
to
just
put
them
in
consent
or
that
we
have
to
hear
the
item.
A
F
A
L
Madam
chair
members
of
the
commission,
Nick
tarpey
planning
staff,
just
I
want
to
give
a
kind
of
a
quick
overview
of
maybe
what
we're
going
to
be
looking
at
tonight.
So
there's
a
couple
of
design
Alternatives,
we
were
looking
at
a
site
plan
for
some
new
development,
just
a
quick
background
on
how
this
came
to
be
the
purview
of
staff
on
this.
So
this
time
about
a
year
ago,
there
was
staff
did
receive
basically
a
notice
from
our
zoning
enforcement
department
that
there
was
site
improvements
that
took
place
at
this
property.
L
There
was
an
existing
parking
lot
that
was
paved
over
and
expanded
without
the
applicable
permits,
so
permits
were
working
in
the
right-of-way,
a
building
permit
for
the
new
Paving
and
a
site
plan
for
the
site
improvements.
So
there
is
an
active
code
case
on
the
property,
so
that
was
referred
to
planning
staff.
L
Our
zoning
enforcement
staff
also
discussed
with
the
applicant
their
next
step,
so
they
referred
them
to
a
pre-application
meeting
where
they
can
meet
with
somebody
like
myself,
on
a
planning
staff
and
other
members
of
City
staff
to
talk
about
okay,
we
got
to
do
a
site
plan.
What
do
you
need
to
do?
What
all
goes
into
to
that?
What
are
the
logistics
of
that,
and
so
that
was
communicated
to
the
applicant
about
this
time?
L
A
year
ago,
the
applicant
then
went
out
hired
a
designer
to
create
a
site
plan
that
was
submitted
to
us
and
we've
been
kind
of
going
back
and
forth,
basically
over
the
summer
into
the
fall,
and
then
now
we're
here
tonight,
because
there's
certain
elements
of
the
site
plan
that
the
applicant
would
like
to
waive
that
staff
is
not
necessarily
in
support
of.
So
we
can
talk
about
that
tonight,
but
that's
a
synopsis
basically
of
how
we
got
here,
and
we
can
explain
that
a
little
bit
more.
L
If
you
have
further
questions
so
the
two
design
Alternatives
tonight
they
kind
of
relate
one
of
them
has
to
do
with
Drive
access.
The
other
one
has
to
do
with
certain
Paving
setbacks
and
parking
lot
buffers
so
I'll
describe
both
of
those
so
thinking
about
this
site
here
outlined
in
the
orange.
So
this
is
Donna's
garage.
L
It
is
a
well-known
establishment
on
Southeast
14th,
so
we're
staying
on
the
corridor
tonight,
that's
about
a
quarter
mile
south
of
Watchers
about
a
quarter
mile
north
of
McKinley,
so
about
smack
dab
in
the
middle
of
that.
If
you're
trying
to
think
about
where
it
is
positionally
on
the
south
side
and
also
just
want
to
note
too,
this
is
the
the
previous
condition
of
the
site.
So
it
was.
L
L
L
L
What
the
code
would
require
was
that
they
would
remove
the
two
Drive
accesses
on
Southeast
14th
Street,
which
is
considered
a
primary
Street
and
just
utilize
the
Emma
Avenue
entrance
as
their
their
main
vehicular
access.
As
staff's
position.
You
know
we
feel
that
there's
three
existing
accesses
here
for
one
site
and
really
with
it's
a
single-use
site.
Really
it's
it's
really
only
appropriate
for
them
to
have
one
access.
There's
not
really
a
demonstrated
traffic
need
for
them
to
have
three
Drive
accesses
into
and
out
of
the
site.
L
The
other
thing
that
I
do
want
to
mention,
too,
is
that
we
did
receive
from
some
correspondence
from
our
traffic
and
transportation
staff
that
generally,
in
addition
to
this
being
a
code
requirement,
and
this
this
is
what
we
want
them
to
do.
To
comply
with
the
zoning
ordinance
generally.
Reducing
Drive
access
is
something
that
really
increases
safety
along
corridors.
So
we
talked
a
lot
about
Southeast,
14th,
Southeast,
14th
Street
tonight,
commissioner
Paige
did
bring
up
that
there's.
You
know
a
lot
of
safety
concerns
in
terms
of
vehicular
crashes
and
things
like
that.
L
Our
traffic
and
transportation
staff
did
corroborate
a
lot
of
that.
That's
a
really
high
volume,
Corridor,
there's
a
lot
of
cars
going
in
and
out
every
day,
and
so
removing
those
two
Drive
access
is
something
that
would
really
improve
both
vehicular
as
well
as
pedestrian
safety
in
the
corridor,
because
data
have
shown
that
the
more
Drive
accesses
that
you
have
on
a
road
in
terms
of
access
density,
it
does
increase
crashes.
L
It's
they're
shown
to
be
a
correlation
with
that,
and
so,
as
staff
we're
doing
a
site
plan,
there's
really
no
other
way
for
us
to
to
remove
private
drives
without
site
development,
and
so
as
staff,
our
position
would
be.
Those
drives
should
be
removed
in
the
the
traditional
curb
and
gutter
configuration
restored
through
there
and
again,
that's
really
for
vehicular,
as
well
as
pedestrian
safety,
to
try
to
reduce
some
of
those
conflicts
that
can
happen
on
those
low
visibility
and
really
high
speed
corridors
like
a
Southeast
14th.
L
The
other
design
alternative
the
applicant
is
requesting
tonight
is
for
some
of
the
parking
lot
buffering.
So,
as
this
group
is
probably
pretty
familiar
with,
whenever
there's
a
parking
lot
in
the
city,
there
is
required
to
be
what's:
what's
called
a
fence.
Frontage
buffers,
that's
a
seven
foot,
Paving
setbacks,
it's
a
seven
foot
green
area
that
would
basically
wrap
the
parking
lot
facing
any
public
streets
or
public
ways,
and
then
that
would
include
an
ornamental
fence,
some
shrubs
grasses
and
then
some
trees
as
well.
L
What
the
applicant
is
proposing
is
they're
proposing
to
waive
the
provision
of
trees
at
staff.
We
do
not
support
this
request
because
for
a
lot
of
reasons,
it's
not
just
necessarily
for
Aesthetics
or
beautification,
even
though
those
are
nice
goals
of
tree
provision,
another
one
of
those
goals
is
to
provide
shade,
especially
on
these,
these
Urban
thoroughfares
that
don't
have
a
lot
of
shade
on
the
sidewalks.
There's
a
dart
stop
at
the
site,
and
so
generally,
as
our
staff
position
is,
you
know
we
have
these
existing
sidewalks
here.
L
These
existing
pedestrian
corridors
that
don't
have
a
lot
of
shade
and
so
providing
trees
would
add
to
that.
In
addition
to
providing
trees
for
shade
for
pedestrians,
it
would
also
provide
shade
for
the
parking
lot.
It's
a
pretty
large
expansive
paved
area
contributes
to
Urban
heat
island
effect,
and
so
adding
a
few
trees
would
would
reduce
that,
and
then
also
this
as
noted
previously,
the
site's
pretty
highly
impervious,
so
adding
a
few
trees
would
enhance
the
storm
under
management
potential
of
the
site.
L
Another
thing
that
I
do
want
to
note
when
we're
talking
about
Landscaping
here
is
that
we
have
gone
back
and
forth
with
the
applicant
as
staff
and
and
we've
been
tried
to
be
pretty
flexible.
We
understand
that
this
is
kind
of
a
difficult
situation
being
there
an
active
code
case.
There
is
zoning
enforcement
on
the
property,
so
we
try
to
be
pretty
flexible
with
them
in
terms
of
the
provision
of
their
Landscaping.
L
We
have
granted
some
waivers
in
terms
of
some
of
the
other
requirements,
like
the
buffering
that
would
be
required
to
the
West
some
of
the
Interior
parking
lot
Landscaping
so
like
row,
Islands
or
shading,
the
fence
Frontage
buffer
on
on
the
south
side
of
the
property
facing
Emma
Avenue.
So
we've
tried
to
maintain
a
degree
of
flexibility
here,
one
of
the
things
that
staff
we
really
do
want
to
stand
on,
though,
is
that
the
fence
Frontage
buffer,
particularly
along
east
Southeast,
14th
Street.
L
We
really
are
in
support
of
closing
those
access
drives
and
and
adding
those
trees
on
there,
boats
for
the
site,
but
also
for
the
public
way
that
that
it
butts
right
against
it.
So,
for
those
those
multiple
reasons,
staff
does
not
support
the
request
to
design
alternatives
and
also
I,
just
I
wanted
to
highlight.
I
did
say
that
we
got
some
correspondence
from
our
traffic
and
transportation
staff
I'm
going
to
let
this
linger
for
a
second
here.
L
L
L
L
Those
are
type
ones
so
how
the
code
reads
anything
in
the
Landscaping
section
of
chapter
135
planning
and
design
ordinance,
article
7.,
those
are
automatically
at
least
initially
considered
as
type
1
design.
Alternatives
staff
can
choose
to
make
them
type
twos,
basically,
but
staff
kind
of
felt
it
was
appropriate
at
the
site.
Given
the
context,
we
could
approve
some
of
those
type
1
design
alternatives
for
some
of
the
Landscaping.
L
Yeah,
that's
a
good
question.
I!
Don't
know
that
answer!
This
was
just
forwarded
in
an
email
to
me
from
Corey
Bogan
who's,
one
of
our
senior
Traffic
Engineers
I,
do
I
think
that
they
get
that
just
kind
of
as
a
general
number
from
the
dot
them
communicating
with
our
traffic
staff.
I,
don't
know,
I,
don't
know
if
we
have
an
hourly
figure
with
that.
C
S
Good
evening
honorable
chair
members
of
the
commission,
Wally
Peltz
pellets,
Design,
Services,
2323,
Dixon,
Street,
Des,
Moines,
Iowa
50316.,
representing
Donna's
Garage
on
this
project
and
Nick's
done
a
great
job.
It's
been
great
to
work
with
him.
I
think
we're
to
two
impasses
that
our
clients
are
asking
for.
S
You
can
see
the
dots
so
the
the
lower
rectangle
on
the
left
hand
side
is
not
his
garage.
You
can
see
the
two
entrances,
then
you
see
all
the
dots
that
are
here
on
the
page
and
that
represents,
if
you
can
see
over
10
years,
there's
been
nine
accidents,
24
occupants,
17,
Vehicles,
two
minor
and
one
personal
injury
I
believe,
is
what
that
says
and
that's
over
a
10-year
span.
So
that's
from
the
icat
system
that
the
dot
provided
us
because
we
asked
them
for
they
directed
us
to
their
website.
S
S
When
they
did
this
project-
and
there
were
two
type
B
entrances
granted
and
paved
as
a
part
of
this
project,
which
at
that
point,
the
dot,
didn't
seem
to
think
that
this
was
an
issue
we
contacted
the
dot
and
I
know
it's
a
joint
it's
strip
between
the
dot
and
the
City
of
Des
Moines.
They
said
they've
issued
two
type
B
entrance
permits.
They
see
no
reason
to
take
them
away,
especially
when
we
looked
at
the
number
of
accidents
that
have
happened
in
this
place.
S
It's
10
and
10
years,
so
one
per
year
no
fatalities.
So
at
that
point
you
can
consider
it
a
somewhat
safe
intersection.
Most
people
feel
safe
driving
on
Southeast
14th,
even
with
32
000
vehicles
per
day.
If
you
looked
at
a
peak
hour
on
that,
you
will
find
in
a
peak
hour,
you're
hidden
close
to
three
four
thousand
vehicles
in
each
lane
in
each
Direction
during
the
peak
rushes.
S
So
our
request
from
our
client
is
that
if
we're
asked
to
go
to
the
southern
entrance,
we
have
delivery
trucks
that
come.
It
is
a
drinking
establishment.
So
you
get
your
Budweiser,
your
bike,
beer
trucks,
the
delivery,
the
beverage
delivery,
whether
it
be
doll
or
whoever
that
Services
you're
going
to
push
them
onto
Emma
and
then
I
have
problems
once
I
get
into
my
site
for
maneuverability
for
turning
around.
So
if
there's
cars
there
I'll
be
backing
out
onto
Emma
Street,
which
I
know
the
traffic
department.
S
Hates
I've
had
the
discussions
with
Mr
Garrett
about
this
on
other
projects,
so
we're
asking
to
keep
both
of
them
because
they
were
originally
permitted
as
a
type
B
access
by
the
DOT
on
the
trees
for
our
client
again
I
hope
you
understand
their
point
of
view.
They
thought
they
were
doing
something
good
by
taking
a
gravel
parking
lot
and
Paving
it.
They
unfortunately
listened
to
their
contractor,
who
said
they
didn't
need
a
permit
because
they're
just
Paving
an
existing
gravel
parking
lot.
S
To
their
surprise.
They
got
a
notice
from
the
zoning
commission
and
we've
been
trying
to
resolve
it
ever
since
so
the
the
you
know,
I
guess
the
the
one
option
was
I
think
you
could
take
all
the
improvements
out
and
restore
it
to
what
it
was.
And
then
it's
not
a
violation,
but
I
think
we've
gone
down
far
enough
down
the
road
where
everyone
wants
to
move
forward.
S
They
like
the
asphalt
they
don't
like
being
on
the
gravel
and
then
I
wanted
to
show
a
couple
of
things
that
we're
going
to
have
to
do
already.
So
the
items
that
you
see
in
red
are
the
areas
where
we're
removing
Paving
and
leaving
the
two
dot
entrances.
So
we
are
proposing
to
put
Landscaping
here
with
the
grasses
and
that
ornamental
fence,
similar
to
what
you
see
at
Fazoli's
I,
think
we
can
potentially
put
a
tree
or
two
in
there.
S
So-
and
these
are
areas
that
they're
going
to
be
cutting
out
brand
new
asphalt,
however
I
think
we're
going
through
the
steps.
One
of
the
other
things
is
so
this
site
is
tight
in
general.
I've
got
great
issues
in
the
parking
lot,
where
I'm
at
seven
to
eight
percent
grade,
which
is
not
an
ADA
route
compatible.
S
So
we
were
looking
at
what
are
the
entrances
where's
the
place
where
I
can
put
an
ADA
spot
and
that's
to
the
north?
We
will
be
having
to
take
that
asphalt
out
as
well,
because
it
does
not
comply
with
the
less
than
two
percent
grade,
which
then
allows
for
easier
entrance.
If
we
close
this
one,
it
makes
it
more
difficult
for
them
to
back
out
if
we
lose
this
one.
The
trucks
usually
pull
in
here
is
what
I'm
told
for
their
delivery
and
they
make
a
circular
motion
and
pull
back
out.
S
S
S
Q
S
S
Trying
to
remember
if
we're
redoing,
that
sidewalk
on
the
along
14th,
no
that's
an
existing
sidewalk,
but
we
are
creating
more
more
of
a
grass
area,
taking
seven
feet
between
the
entrances
and
to
the
north
to
create
that
buffer
and
I
think
our
clients
mentioned
that
they
saw
what
they
did
down
at
Fazoli's
and
I.
Don't
know
if
Fazoli's
has
trees
or
not
I,
think
they're
just
ornamental
grasses
and
that
iron
fence,
so
I
think
we're
complying
with
everything.
We're
just
asking
for
I.
Think
that
made
a
mistake.
S
A
S
It's
a
certain
type
of
node
where
they
say
if
you
do
this
type
of
a
building.
That's
the
reference
in
the
site
plan
that
they're
that
they're
talking
about
is
a
new
development
where
right
that
it
would
push
the
access
off
of
the
primary
drive
and
off
to
the
side
drive.
So
if
we're,
if
we're
doing
this
today,
I,
don't
know
that
it
would
be
pseudos
that
would
push
us
there,
but
it
would
most
likely
be
the
zoning
ordinance
that
would
push.
A
Yeah
chapter
one
I
mean
that's
the
whole
we're
applying
today's
standard
and
that's
what
you're
asked
you're
at
you
and
your
client
are
asking
for
relief
of
which
the
for
this
building
type
in
this
zoning
District
driveways
are
supposed
to
come
off
a
secondary,
Road
and
so
you're
asking
for
relief
of
it,
where
a
staff
had
recommended.
Not
do
that.
So
that's
that's
where
that
sand
is
coming
from.
S
It
would
do
all
of
those
things.
I
mean
I,
I
I
think
we're
coming
forward
to
you
with
a
grandfather
type
Clause
I
mean
it
was
an
existing
business.
Had
they
not
paid
their
parking
lot,
I
wouldn't
be
talking
to
you,
which
I
think
is
actually
a
really
good
thing
that
they
paid
their
parking
lot.
We
have
enough
gravel,
drives
and
parking
lots,
and
at
least
in
our
neighborhood
that
I'd
like
to
see
paved,
but
they
thought
they
were
doing
something
good
to
improve
it.
S
F
I
A
I
think
it's
in
this
particular
installation.
It's
just
a
part
of
the
visual
screen.
I
mean
it'd,
be
part
of
the
softening
views,
so
it's
kind
of
intertwined
with
plant
material
and
it's
just
another
visual
obstacle,
I
think
maybe
where
you're
heading
you
know,
we've
used
the
fats
in
more
a
more
urban
setting
where
it's
supposed
to
try
to
represent
a
building
wall.
A
I
A
And
I
think
I
understood
the
fence.
I
think
the
applicant's
concern
is
primarily
the
perception
of
people
not
being
able
to
see
their
building
if
they
have
trees.
Is
that
accurate
is
money
part
because
the
ninja
the
tree
is
not
in
of
itself
terribly
expensive
at
least
I?
Don't
they
weren't
at
one
time,
I'd
have
looked
at
one
for
a
while,
but.
D
A
A
So
it's
I
I
mean
so
tearing
it
out.
I
mean
I.
Think
it
was
it's
not
just
the
drive
approach.
It's
you
know
it's
not
really
practical
to.
We
I,
don't
think
they're
gonna
take
out
the
whole
parking
lot.
So
I
think
that's
just
kind
of
a
side,
anecdotal
part
of
the
fact
that
they
felt
like
they
were
being
okay
and
got.
You
know.
D
A
But
I
don't
know
that
that's
I,
don't
think
that's
a
realistic
option
or
that's
really
part
of
the
dialogue.
I
just
think
that
I
and
I
I
don't
want
to
speak
for
the
enforcement
staff
as
to
whether
that's
even
a
viable
option,
because
they
they've
they've
altered
the
property
like
from
a
zoning
perspective.
Once
you
make
the
alteration
I
mean
this
is
a
site
plan
consideration
so,
but
usually,
if
you
impact
a
use
of
a
property
from
just
kind
of
General
zoning
perspective
that
that
that
change
has
already
occurred.
A
So
we
can't
really
walk
back
the
change
you
could
tear
it
out,
but
that's
just
another
change,
but
I
don't
want
to
speak
without
being
in
the
middle
of
those
conversations
or
what
our
enforcement
staff
have
told
them
and
what's
accurate,
what
the
zoning
enforcement
officers
actually
determined
I
think
we're
just
kind
of
speculating
I
think
just
for
tonight's
purposes.
We
just
need
to
keep
the
fact
that
they're
before
us,
they've
made
a
change
to
the
property
and
we've
got
two
design:
Ultra,
alter
design
alternatives
to
look
at.
L
D
I
guess
I
not
to
be
broken
record
Brown,
that
traffic
piece
right
I
mean
if
ite
even
has
a
Peak
at
4.
000
metcd
doesn't
really
seem
to
have
concerns
until
hit
6
000
and
we're
showing
that
we
don't
have
the
five
accidents
in
the
last
six
months.
That
would
actually
precipitate
concern
as
this
being
a
dangerous
area.
I
don't
see
evidence
that
we've
provided
that's
based
off
of
actual
observation,
because
it
is
not
a
great.
D
They
aren't
great
tools,
but
I
don't
see
evidence
that
we've
collected
a
real
world
that
indicates
this
is
more
dangerous,
they're
dangerous
enough
to
Warrant
pulling
these
out,
especially
if
you're
getting
primarily
use
of
of
of
trucks.
Trying
to
back
up
a
truck
into
this
that
you
know
we
deal
in
trucks,
that's
sort
of
hard.
It's
something
that
I
think
that
we'd
want
to.
You
know
not
make
it
harder
onto
a
side
road
that
seems
more
dangerous.
J
D
I
mean
personally
I'm
of
the
logic
that,
yes,
if
your
issue
is
circulation
for
a
truck
being
for
for
truck
delivery,
is
in
it
seemed
logical
to
me
that
the
you
know
being
able
to
take
away.
One
would
make
some
sense.
I
guess
I
I'm,
not
the
engineer
on
this.
You
know
this
is
a
professional
engineer,
so
I
I
default
to
their
their
logic
on.
D
Why
two
would
be
needed,
especially
other
considerations,
but
I,
don't
think
we
should
be
taking
away
driveways
on
the
argument
of
safety
when
there
isn't
an
indication-
and
it's
there
is
my
bigger
point.
So
whether
there's
one
or
two
I
would
be
amenable
that
just
having
one
but
I,
don't
see
us
I,
don't
see
it
being
appropriate
for
us
to
remove
two.
If
the
argument
is
safety,
when
we
haven't
made
a
safety,
a
strong
safety
argument.
M
Go
against
that
I
know:
it's
not
a
heavily
used
pedestrian
Corridor,
but
there
is
a
bus
stop
on
the
corner
and
from
a
pedestrian
standpoint.
I
think
walking
down
that
when
the
traffic
is
behind
you
and
you
don't
know
if
it's
going
to
turn,
that's
a
lot
of
constant
looking
over
your
shoulder,
there's
a
perception
of
it
not
being
safe
and
therefore
baking
pedestrians
not
want
to
walk
that
Corridor.
E
I
think
I
would
go
along
with
the
one
I
travel,
this
Corridor
a
lot
and,
frankly,
I'm
not
convinced
that
statistics
that
have
been
given
about
the
number
of
accidents
which
have
been
this
is
historical.
Information
is
actually
true.
Today,
we
all
know
if
you
drive
around
the
city
of
Des
Moines
anytime,
you
drive
around
you've,
seen
somebody
in
an
accident
right,
so
statistics
from
years
past.
Don't
you
know
resonate
with
me
quite
frankly,
because
there's
increased
traffic
and
people
are
driving
a
lot
faster.
I
I
just
follow
up
on
that
I
I,
don't
know
that
what
the
value
is
of
the
northernmost
entrance,
saying
that
you're,
almost
driving
straight
into
the
building
you've
got
two
parking
spaces
that
can
be
moved,
South
more
added,
Green
Space,
where
those
parking
spaces
are
now
so
I
I
support
staff.
In
that
the
southernmost
one
seems
to
be
the
one
the
trucks
are
accessing.
I
K
K
A
new
I'm
not
really
asking
a
question
I'm
just
saying
that
that
that's
the
case
I
mean
if
it
wasn't
an
existing
situation
and
the
trucks
would
need
to
figure
it
out
and
that's
kind
of
the
case.
So
I
don't
know,
I
just
want
to
throw
up
there
that
it's
also
not
that
big
of
a
deal
to
just
go
with
the
plan
and
that's
how
the
rest
of
the
corridor
will
be
developed
as
we're
incentivizing.
K
C
F
F
A
Yeah,
you
know
every
year
we
put
out
a
schedule
for
the
next
year.
You
know
try
to
keep
us
on
on
track,
so
the
public
knows
what
what
we're
doing
so
I.
Hopefully,
we've
done
an
okay
job.
It
follows
the
same
pattern.
You
know
first
and
third,
Thursdays.
We
have
a
couple
meetings
in
there
that
we've
actually
I
think
we
just
have
the
one
in
January
that
first
meeting
that
we
are
looking
to
not
hold
do
the
conflict
with
the
holidays,
so
yeah
there's
no
questions
or
concerns
by
anything.
F
F
Thank
you
and
I'd
just
like
to
note
that
I
talked
to
Jason.
We
do
have
quite
a
few
new
people
in
the
last
year,
so
we're
gonna
try
to
do
a
training
for
the
Commissioners.
Just
on
like
what
everything
means.
What
goes
on
consent?
Why
does
it
go
on
consent?
Things
like
that?
We
don't
think
we're
going
to
be
able
to
fit
it
in
this
year
early
next
year,
probably
not
the
January
meeting,
because
that
usually
it's
a
pretty
packed.
F
D
I
did
not
speak
to
you
on
a
public
meeting
format,
but
I
did
talk
to
a
number
of
you
individually
about
this
and
try
and
gather
some
questions
to
start
and
I
thought
to
try
and
get
ahead
of
the
first
few
of
them.
I
want
to
lay
out
a
little
bit
of
again.
You
know
what
is
this.
Why
is
this
and
I
guess?
What
are
we
hoping
what
it?
What
is
a
strategy
committee
hoping
to
achieve
so
when
you're,
looking
at
one
of
the
questions
that
someone
has
like
what?
D
What
is
our
actual
job,
when
we
look
at
our
actual
job,
which
is
published
on
the
website,
basically
identifies
that
the
plan
and
Zoning
commission
oversees
the
preparation
and
illustration
of
the
comprehensive
plan,
which
is
a
plan
DSM
creating
our
tomorrow,
zoning
long-range
planning,
site
planning,
land
subdivisions
and
public
improvements,
as
defined
by
codes,
sets
policy
and
determines
plan
and
Zoning
requirements
within
that
remit.
The
where
this
sort
of
came
from
was
number
one.
D
We
often
get
edge
cases
like
the
restaurant
in
Ingersoll
two
weeks
ago,
or
you
know
again,
this
14th
Street,
Urban
rule
plan
or
even
the
question
on
fences
from
Todd
tonight.
Many
of
us
struggle
with
how
accommodations
are
appropriate
in
order
to
understand
how
these
edge
cases
should
be
thought
of.
In
the
context
of
plan
DSM,
we
need
to
understand
how
the
city
is
strategically
looking
at
these
edge
cases,
and
I
would
argue
that
we
really
can't
do
the
job
as
defined
on
the
website.
D
You
know
which
again
includes
overseeing
preparation
plan
DSM,
sets
policies
and
determines
plans
and
requirements.
If
we
aren't
on
the
same
strategic
page,
so
I
would
argue,
we
really
need
to
know
what
strategies
are
being
pursued.
This
particular
document
came
about
because
I
had
questions
on
how
we
were
strategically
viewing
Tiff
and
the
urban
rural
districts
sort
of
almost
ironically
now.
D
Timing,
wise
I
was
told
in
basically
a
90
plus
minute
meeting
that
we
had
no
strategy
nor
time
to
develop,
one
which
I,
don't
believe,
is
possible,
so
instead
I
hypothesize
their
strategies
could
be
identified.
If
we
made
an
effort
to
find
a
logical
linkage
between
the
projects
and
goals
and
objectives
directly
taken
from
plan,
DSM
and
I
took
this
first
cut
of
what
I
saw
to
be
The
Logical
strategic
consistencies
between
the
projects
and
goals
that
are
identified
by
plan
DSM
and
approved
by
the
city
council.
D
So
what
I'm
hoping
this
can
do
in
there
is,
as
some
may
have
asked,
you
know
the
strategies
I've
written
out.
These
are
me
trying
to
look
and
say:
okay,
here's
our
plans,
here's
our
goals.
How
do
they
connect
each
other?
How?
What
is
the
strategy
allows
for
this
plan
to
be
appropriate
for
this
goal?
And
you
know
I
am
personally
in
disagreement
with
some
of
them,
but
I
think
that
they,
this
was
my
best
attempt
to
reflect
what
I
think
is
occurring.
D
D
We
should
Outsource
that
to
Florida
I
think
we
should
do
that
locally
and
figure
out
what
strategies
we're
going
to
pursue
in
making
our
community
better
for
all
of
us
with
respect
to
what
our
role
is
with
with
plan
and
zoning
and
ordinance
development,
you
know,
possibly
someone
takes
a
look
and
says.
Well,
you
know
these
sort
of
make
some
sense,
but
we're
going
to
actually
just
you
know,
fix
a
few
things.
They're
small
I
still
think
that's
a
big
win.
That's
you
know.
If
we
can
do
anything
like
undergrounding,
undergrounding
is
something
we're.
D
D
Two
weeks,
two
meetings
ago,
we
had
a
level
of
contention
there
that
arrived
at
you
know
extra
visitors
places
they
shouldn't
be,
and
we
we
you
know
we
should
probably
try
to
avoid
those
items,
especially
if
they
are
circular
like
that
and
staff
is
doing
the
right
thing
anyway.
Those
are
things
that
you
know.
Maybe
that's
a
possible
thing.
We
can
highlight
with
this
type
of
a
document
to
say
we
should
approach
these
differently.
D
You
know
worst
case.
We
push
this
forward.
No
one
cares
and
dies.
Okay,
fine,
but
as
plan
and
Zoning
goes,
we
can
say
hey.
This
is
what
we
saw
law
when
we
get
to
those
edge
cases.
It
can
give
us
some
guidance
on
on
what
what
we
believe
is
being
done,
and
if
we
have
that
guidance,
what
we
believe
we
can
do
as
Commissioners
is
be
more
consistent
across
all
of
us
and
help
the
city
in
avoiding
legally
arbitrary
decisions,
which
I
think
is
one
of
the
big
pieces.
D
That's
unspoken
with
on
our
role.
How
do
we
ensure
that
we
are
bringing
in
experts?
You
know
pe's
accredited
Architects
individuals
who
have
actual
experience
in
this
area
and
saying
given
our
experience
in
this
area.
This
is
how
the
ordinance
should
be
interpreted,
and
this
is
how
we
should
be
looking
at
developing
new
ordinances
and
how
we
should
be
looking
at
developing
future
plans
to
ensure
that
we
are
doing
what's
best
for
the
community.
Given
our
professional
opinions
and
professional
expertise,
I
do
not
expect
that
this
document
will
remain
unchanged.
D
I
would
be
shocked
if
it
does,
but
if
it
does
I
guess
that
answers
which
of
the
outcomes
we
arrived
at,
but
I
do
know
that
right
now
we
need
to
have
the
focus
of
of
city,
council
and
City
council's
direction
of
Staff
or
city
managers,
direction
of
Staff
apologies
at
their
recommendation
of
city
council
to
put
in
the
effort
required
to
get
this.
You
know
get
these
into
a
form
that
is
going
to
be
useful
to
ensure
consistency,
transparency
and
a
lack
of
arbitrariness
within
our
our
group
and
within
our
community.
D
D
D
Given
those
strategies
of
what
those
connectors
were
so
I'm,
hoping
that
hits
a
number
of
questions,
vocab
I'd
be
happy
to
either
hear
that
this
is
useless,
not
useless
could
be
improved
whatever
it
is
in
order
to
help
us
get
again
to
the
objective
that
I
hope
we
can
get
to,
which
is
consistency,
transparency
and
avoidance
of
Legally
arbitrary
decisions
that
we
are
going
to
have
our
names
on
on
the
public
record,
with
our
professional
affiliations.
Attached
to
that
is
the
objective
of
this
document
and
what
I
hope
it
can
be
used
for.
F
T
All
right,
hey
I,
have
a
question:
I
guess:
I
I
know
that
I
don't
know
the
ins
and
outs
of
the
city
code
and
I
feel
like
I
was
a
bit
confused
digesting
your
document
like
the
city
website,
redesign
I
feel
like
that
is
outside
of
the
scope
of
this
commission,
at
least
to
my
knowledge
and
there's,
probably
several
other
things
on
here
too.
So
could
you
just
maybe
talk
about
why
some
of
those
things
are
included?
I
I
mean
I,
I,
guess
I
could
see
how
you
know.
T
D
I
I,
don't
think
so
either,
but
I
mean
as
far
as
the
city
website
piece.
The
reason
I
have
that
and
that's
one
I
think
is
a
tangential,
but
when
you're
looking
at
dissemination
of
information
when
you're
looking
at
the
ability
to
actually
reach
out
and
assemble
feedback
from
the
community,
we've
seen
that
there's
been
challenges
with
comment
cards
and
our
ability
to
prove
that
comment
cards.
You
know
we're
pretty
sure
we're
doing
it
right.
I
mean
I,
think
the
staff
doesn't.
D
I
think
for
many
of
us
in
our
community
we
don't
have
the
benefit
of
living
in
other
places,
where
there's
local
government
runs
terribly.
The
problem
with
ours
running
well,
the
problem
with
ours
running
in
the
city
very
well,
and
their
County
running
really
well
is
you
know
we
sort
of
see
little
issues
as
big
issues.
I've
lived.
D
Another
I
lived
in
Houston
place
is
terrible,
however,
from
those
pieces
right,
we're
doing
a
ton
better,
but
there's
indications
that
we
cannot
necessarily
always
prove
Beyond,
The
public's
comfort,
that
a
certain
thing
has
happened
and
the
website
redesign
is
something
that
is
relevant
to
that
action,
which
is
why
I
left
it
but
I
agree
it's
tangential.
So
again,
my
logic
here
in
the
listing
of
the
projects
was
that
if
it
has
any
access
to
being
tangentially
related,
why
not
leave
it?
It
doesn't
matter,
I
mean
it
doesn't
hurt
it
to
be
there
right.
D
It
doesn't
say
that
everything
in
there
has
to
connect
and,
as
I
say,
there's
a
lot
of
white
boxes
where
I'm
not
entirely
sure
how
the
strategy
links
the
bigger
point
is
for
the
ones
that
we
know
are
there.
Did
we
hit
the
strategy
that
we've
been
observing?
Are
those
strategies
actually
actually
accurate
and
fair
of
what's
occurring
and
are
those
things
that
we
can
use
to
inform
our
deliberations
when
we
get
those
edge
cases,
so
yeah
I,
think
line
by
line?
There's
plenty
could
be
improved
here.
D
This
is
this
is
really
the
work
of
you
know,
one
writer
and
two
other
input
providers
and
we're
trying
to
get
input
from
everyone
here.
The
goal
would
be
to
identify
I
guess
my
objective:
if
I'm
looking
at
these
types
of
this
is
my
daily
activity
is
looking
these
items
right,
it
doesn't
mean
I,
do
it
well,
but
it
means
that
what
I'm
hoping
at
this
stage
of
it
is
that
we're
able
to
look
in
and
say
is
there
anything
in
here?
That's
clearly
wrong.
D
If
it's
clearly
wrong
Sweet,
let's
stop
and
fix
it.
If
it's
not
clearly
wrong,
we
have
to
be
clear
that
it
isn't
done.
So
if
it's
not
clearly
wrong,
let's
at
least
say
hey,
we
haven't
seen
any
indication,
that's
wrong.
Let's
get
it
to
the
next
level
that
someone
who
actually
has
the
time
and
direction
to
focus
on
it
can
say:
well,
here's
how
we
make
it
better
and
if
we're
able
to
get
to
the
next
level
of
saying,
hey,
we're
going
we're
going
to
get
better.
D
D
We
see
a
very,
very
small
portion
when
you
look
at
plan
DSM
and
the
projects
that
are
on
there
relative
the
number
of
people
in
that
department
relative
the
size
of
our
city.
That
is
a
massive
workload.
We
have
a
large
backlog
in
our
work,
but
I
can
I
provide
for
our
folk.
This
is
a
strategy
we're
going
for.
D
We
need
to
be
able
to
provide,
and
if
our
role
as
professionals
is
say,
this
is
what's
important.
We
need
to
ensure
that
those
individuals
who
have
the
best
interest
of
the
city,
who
have
the
skills,
experience
capabilities
to
actually
move
the
city
forward,
are
provided
access
to
give.
You
know
sometimes
push
back
to
say,
look,
that's
not
in
the
strategy.
That
makes
no
sense
right
now.
This
is
what
we're
focusing
on.
For
this
reason,
this
is
the
type
of
thing.
D
This
is
how
we
actually
provide
the
empowerment
of
those
individuals
who
are
depending
on
to
do
way
too
much
relative
to
the
actual
resources
provided
to
get
the
best
done
on
our
behalf.
That's
why
I
think
having
this
type
of
document
is
vitally
important.
It
allows
that
prioritization
work
because
right
now,
I've
heard.
Oh,
we
got
50
priorities
a
day,
you're
using
the
word
wrong.
That's
not
how
it
works.
F
A
A
D
A
A
We
have
criteria
that
maybe
we
should
point
to
it
more
so,
but
it's
in
the
staff
report
every
time
we
look
at
these
design,
Alternatives,
there's
already
code
based
criteria
for
what
how
you
guys
should
be
making
decisions.
So
if,
if
the
commission
wants
you
know
if
you're
looking
for
broad,
you
know
like
some
sort
of
summarize
compact
document
that
boils
down
what
goals
admissions
are
I
mean
I.
Think
that's
one
thing,
but
to
suggest
that
we're
making
arbitrary
decisions.
D
A
A
D
I'm
fine
with
striking
that
as
well.
That's
fine
right!
So
if
we
can
actually,
you
know,
increase
commissioner
consistent
C
and
reduce
access
to
interpretations
of
arbitrariness
find
whatever
we
want
to
do.
If
we're
saying
that
we,
you
know
fine
or
if
we
even
just
change
it
to
say
to
increase,
you
know
public.
You
know
public
transparency
inter
consistent
interpretation.
Fine.
That
part
isn't
vital
vital
to
me,
but
we
don't
have
a
clear
statement
of
these.
J
Chris
I
appreciate
the
effort
that
went
into
this
and
I
feel
like
a
little
bit
like
I'm
sort
of
admitting
something
about
myself,
but
I
don't
get
it
I
just
don't
understand
the
document
and
it
part
of
it
is
the
inclusion
of
stuff
like
just
some
of
this.
Some
of
the
items
in
here
supervise
I
mean
they're
just
line
items
of
things
that
the
city
have
done
and
I
mean
supervisor
boot.
Camp
I,
don't
know
about
that.
I!
J
So
I,
don't
I,
don't
know
if
it
would
do
us
any
good
at
this
level
of
editing
because
I'm
afraid
that
if
I
don't
get
it
I
mean
if
I
don't
get
it
like.
You
know
how
many
people
are
going
to
get
it
and
maybe
that's
an
overstatement
of
my
own
abilities.
But
do
you
is
there
any
takers
on
that?
Like
anyone
want
to
raise
their
hand
and
say
they
don't
get
it
I.
D
I
think
part
of
the
challenge
with
writing.
This
was
as
I
look
at
plan.
Dsm,
I
I,
don't
see
what
the
Strategic
linkages
are.
I
think
we
just
got
to
grab
bag
of
stuff.
We
got
some
goals
and
I
I.
It
is
difficult
to
try
and
figure
out.
What
is
the
strategy
we're
pursuing
between
these?
Why
do
we
have
these
large
lists
of
things?
What
are
these
plans?
How
do
they
further
a
broader
strategy?
So,
yes,
I,
think
a
lot
of
those
pieces
should
they
be
in
there?
D
Probably
not,
but
they
probably
shouldn't
be
in
our
plans
for
playing
DSM
as
like
targets
to
say,
we've
achieved
our
goal:
if
there's
no
strategic
linkage
to
what
they
are
so
I
agree
with
you
that
yes,
there's
some
tenuous
links
in
here,
they're
unavoidable,
because
my
intention
was
to
say
here's
what
we've
publicly
said
that
we're
looking
to
do
in
order
to
get
it.
We've
said
we're
going
to
do
all
these
things.
If
we
do
them
all,
it's
going
to
get
us
to
here.
D
Well,
why?
Why
do
we
think
those
two
things
connect?
So
yes,
I,
agree
that
a
lot
of
these
are
hard
to
make
linkages
on.
This
is
the
first
first
attempt
I
can
make
it
make
for
those
but
yeah
some
of
those
line
items
on
boot
camp
again,
my
intent
was
to
leave
everything
in.
If
we
could
say,
there's
a
linkage
awesome
if
we
couldn't
don't
and
if
what
we're
saying
is,
is
a
group.
K
What
do
you
think?
What
do
you
think
the
difference
between
what
Chris
is
asking
for
in
Clarity
of
what
our
role-
and
this
is
making
should
be
based
on
versus
the
training
that
we
discussed
today
having
in
February
like
what
do
you
think
the
goals
where
do
the
goals
align
or
or
not,
align
between
those
two
statements
or
well
topics.
A
I
I
feel,
like
I've,
heard,
that
there's
a
couple
purposes
to
the
the
document
or
the
effort
and
that
one
of
those
has
to
do
with
your
decision
making
and
reviewing
cases.
So
I
do
think
that
the
training
that
we
would
do
where
we
kind
of
refresh
kind
of
re-walk
everybody
back
through
the
code-based
criteria.
A
The
processes
do
we
have
I,
think
that'd,
be
a
value,
is
really
from
a
legal
perspective,
those
that
is
what
we
need
to
be
making
our
decisions
on
for
design,
Alternatives
and
that
sort
of
stuff,
but
we're
not
going
to
get
into
just
at
a
commission
overview
training.
Talking
about
the
city's
strategic.
You
know,
like
the
council,
strategic
plan
or
or
I
mean
I
feel
like
some
of
the
stuff
that
Chris
you've
talked
about,
is
more
actually
like
implementation
and
and
how
do
you
Implement
a
big,
a
plan?
A
That's
a
broad
vision
like
a
you
know.
Comprehensive
plan
is
a
very
broad
vision
that
there
is
some
implication
discussion
in
there,
but
really
the
how
you
implement
that
it's
a
long-term
plan.
That's
you
know,
20.
You
know
like
a
20-year
window
of
ideas,
but
throughout
that
process
your
you
know,
council
is
making
individual
decisions
every
year
as
to
how
they
want
to
work
towards
that
vision.
A
Based
off
of
voting,
you
know
change.
It
changes
the
thoughts
in
the
community,
so
I
guess
I
see
a
comprehensive
plan
is
just
being
maybe
a
little
different
or
it's
intended.
It's
actually
intended
to
be
a
very
big
picture
and
Broad
and
not
as
prescriptive.
It's
really
a
you
know
like
broad
vision,
and
then
you
make
decisions
on
how
you
want
to
get
towards
it,
based
off
the
circumstance
of
where
you're
at
at
a
point
in
time,
but
those
are
just
some.
These
are
very
you
know.
This
is
just
thoughts.
K
M
My
sense
is
that
what
Chris
is
looking
for-
and
maybe
some
of
the
rest
of
us
are
looking
for-
is
more
of
the
the
larger
sort
of
urban
renewal
projects
and
things
like
that
that
come
before
us
and
understanding
what
strategies
and
priorities
are
being
used
and
why,
for
those
I
I
don't
know
if
that's
accurate
or
not
I,
don't
know
that
this
I
mean
I.
Don't
really
want
to
see
this
document
come
back
to
us
in
this.
M
In
this
exact,
iteration
and
I,
don't
personally
see
a
lot
of
use
of
having
all
of
the
tables
and
the
connecting
of
everything?
That's
that's
not
very
useful
to
me,
but
I
guess
what
I
would
say
is
it
would
be
useful
to
understand
some
of
the
strategies
and
priorities
that
staff
has
on
the
larger
projects
and
even
if
that
does
change
over
time
to
understand,
what's
changing
and
how
we
need
to
view
that
through
that
lens.
A
Is
is:
are
you
thinking
I
mean
you
started
by
talking,
mostly
you
know
about
Urban,
ill
and
and
and
that
sort
of
thing
is
that
really
what
you're,
talking
or
or
is
there
value
and
understanding?
What
are
you
know
our
a
tentative
work
plan
for
the
year,
assuming
we
don't
lose
staff?
You
know,
you
know
like
work
program
stuff
or
like
our
planning
division.
M
Not
necessarily
maybe
some
overarching
goals
that
have
a
higher
priority
than
others
and
I
realize
that
that's
hard
to
say
from
a
planning
staff
perspective,
because
it
pretty
much
everything
ends
up
being
a
priority.
I
get
that
it's
sort
of
which
way
the
wind
blows,
but
certainly
walkability
has
been
an
overarching
priority,
I
think
for
the
years
that
I've
been
on
this
commission
and
it's
one
of
those
things
that
I've
just
learned
through
meeting
after
meeting,
but
not
something
that
was
flat
out
sort
of
said.
This
is
a
priority.
A
No
I
I,
appreciate
I
think
that's
a
good
observation.
She's
married,
my
eyelashes
in
my
eyeball
I
mean
I
can
try
to
figure
out
how
to
incorporate
that
into
the
training.
As
far
as
like
what
our,
what
does
staff
receive
as
like
the
top
10
things
we're
trying
to
achieve
kind
of
thing,
I
mean
in
general,
when
we
talk
about
I
mean
just
the
the
the
if
I
had
to
boil
plant
DSM
down
and
thinking
of
it
in
the
context
of
kind
of
what
we
normally.
A
You
know
like
what
our
role
is.
Typically,
you
know
development
review.
What
you
know
the
the
physical
built
environment,
I
I,
would
say
that
plan
DSM
and
the
steps
that
we've
taken,
which
includes
the
zone.
You
know
the
zoning
or
notes
in
chapter
135,
is
the
the
vision
is
to
work
Des
Moines
towards
being
even
more.
You
know
more
urban
form
of
itself
that
didn't
exist
today,
so
adding
density
and
what
come
when
I
say
that
the
things
that
go
along
with
an
urban
form
or
presence
is
multimodal
walkable.
A
Less
you
know
Auto
oriented.
Of
course
we
recognize
I
mean
I,
think
that's
the
big
picture
vision,
but
we
have
a
lot
of
parts
of
town
where
things
are
gonna
redevelop.
Slowly
and
there's
gonna
be
baby
steps.
You
don't
get
there.
You
know.
We
all
recognize
that
you
know
you
don't
necessarily
get
to
your
final
Vision
with
every
project
that
you
see
in
front
of
you.
It's
just
always
working
towards
that
Vision.
So
I
think
example.
A
You
know
the
the
last
item
we
had
where
you
know
you
guys
kind
of
came
to
the
conclusion
as
a
group
that
working
done
a
site
towards
that
Vision.
At
this
point,
two
driveways
instead
of
three
you
know
so
anyway,
I
guess
where
I'm
going
with
that
is
the
we
have
these
big
visions
of
where
we're
trying
to
head
and
we
try
to
make
decisions
to
head
Us
in
that
way.
But
we
know
we
can't
always
just
like
expect
the
next
use
building
on
every
corner
and
at
today
you
know
it's
a
process.
D
D
That's
in
the
remit
right
and
we're
just
clearly
identifying
here
right,
we're
saying
one
of
our
goals
is
densifying
the
urban
form
of
the
city
right
in
a
way
that
we
hopefully
increases
tax
base,
we're
not
talking
about
putting
a
whole
bunch
of
you
know:
it's
not
you
know.
Was
it
ready
player
one
or
anything
right,
we're
like
trying
to
actually
densify
it
in
a
meaningful,
higher
value
manner,
right,
awesome,
I'm
up
with
that
awesome
goal?
D
That's
what
I
want
to
see
right,
but
we
may
have
the
vision
right,
for
example,
one
of
those
pieces
of
that.
For
me,
a
significant
vision
of
that
is.
We
will
end
up
with
a
distributed
highly
data
dependent
Workforce.
The
reality
is
we
can't
pay
for
that.
We
cannot
pay
to
undo
the
mess
of
our
undergrounding
right
now.
We
just
can't
do
it,
but
we
want
to
get
there
and
it
doesn't
mean
we
write
off
the
goal.
It
means
we
have
to
be
thinking
strategically
about
how
we're
actually
going
to
do
that
right.
D
The
actual
tasks
may
be
that
we
say
all
right.
You
have
to
put
in
two
conduits,
we
own
the
other
conduit
fine.
There
may
be
another
task
that
says
we
have
to.
Actually
you
know
redo
how
undergrounding
matters
right,
but
our
strategy
in
there
is
going
to
be.
We
want
to
offload
the
heavy
front
costs
onto
the
developer
and
we
also
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
using
Tiff
for
infrastructure
expansion,
which,
as
pointed
out
today,
is
now
again
California's
leader
in
Tiff
right.
They
started
in
1954
and
back
in
I,
think
2015
or
16.
D
They
changed
the
rules,
so
you
can
only
use
it
for
public
housing,
infrastructure
expansion,
West
Des
Moines.
The
strategy
of
Tiff
usage
in
West
Des
Moines
is
nearly
purely
all
for
infrastructure
expansion.
That
could
be
our
strategy.
Let's
see,
let's
use
Tiff
in
the
manner
that
allows
us
to
ensure
their
infrastructure
expands
in
a
way
that
enables
you
know
it
distributed
highly
dependent.
Workforce
is
able
to
use
it.
That's
that
could
be
a
very
smart
strategy
for
us,
because
the
reality
is
we
need
to
get
there,
but
we
can't
pay
for
it.
D
What's
the
strategy
for
for
blending
those
two
right
now,
you
know
distant
needs
and
tasks
together
from
right.
If
we
don't
have
consistency
in
strategy,
we
will
not
come
up
with
policy
that
is
going
to
allow
us
to
keep
moving
towards.
As
Jason
says,
we
have
plenty
of
tasks.
Yes,
can
we
prioritize
tasks?
Fine,
that's
not
our
admit.
We
we
are.
We
are
not
the
boss
of
Staff
right,
we
are
not
supposed
to
say:
hey,
show
us
your
priority
list.
We
really
think
number
three
should
be
above
number
one.
D
No,
that's
not
the
point
but
providing
a
clear
understanding
of
strategy.
So
when
these
edge
cases
come
in,
we
can
understand
hey.
Why
did
this
one
get
five
hours
of
consideration?
This
one
get
five
minutes
that
is
within
overseeing
long-range
planning
that
allows
to
set
policy
and
Zoning
requirements.
F
F
E
G
D
I
guess
I
have
a
question
again
when,
when
is
appropriate,
we
were
told
that
these
meetings
is
the
appropriate
time
to
have
the
discussion.
Yeah
I
think
another
place
would
be
be
awesome
to
have
it
I
think
when
we're,
but
I,
don't
think
that
us
keep
on
moving.
It
is
the
same
thing
we
did
with
underground
for
quite
a
while.
We
just
keep
moving
keep
moving.
D
It
was
sidewalks
before
keep
moving,
keep
moving
it
so
I
guess
the
question
is
you
know
if
we
motion
to
say,
hey
we're
going
to
motion
around
Put
It
Forward,
following
completion
of
edits,
approved
by
commission
chair?
That
would
make
some
sense
too
right.
So,
let's
give
a
final
say
to
someone:
let's
allow
some
Pathways
for
people
to
actually
give
feedback
back
and
make
sure
we
have
a
document
that's
sufficiently
not
wrong
and
appropriate
for
moving
forward.
D
E
Chris
I
have
another
question
when
and
I
was
gone
a
couple
of
of
three
or
four
PNC
meetings
ago,
and
so
maybe
I
missed
the
point.
But
when
at
the
last
meeting
there
was
a
comment
that
during
the
director's
report
there
is
also
going
to
be
a
subcommittee
report
and
Chris
was
mentioned
as
the
presenter.
So
my
question
is:
was
there
a
subcommittee
appointed
by
the
pnz
at
some
time
and.
F
O
Haven't
read
it
either,
I,
don't
think
I
was
on
the
distribution
list
for
that,
since
I
am
the
newest
person
here
so
I'd
like
to
see
a
copy
of
it,
it
sounds
to
me
like
there's.
Just
a
lot
of
questions
still
I
would
feel
a
lot
more
comfortable.
Having
that
the
training
we
discussed
early
next
year
before
we
made
any
decision
on
this
document,
I
think
a
lot
of
us
maybe
would
feel
better
having
some
more
time
to
digest
it
and
more
training.
H
I
just
want
to
step
in
because
I
was
part
of
the
committee,
so
just
to
provide
some
feedback
from
everybody's
comments
tonight
it
sounds
like
there
are
some
overarching
themes
that
again
we
want.
We
want
to
know
what
the
strategies
are
behind
some
of
these
larger
projects,
we're
not
specifically
talking
about
code
or
chapter
135
or
134,
but
more
along
the
lines
of
urban
renewal
Tiff.
H
You
know
the
larger
items
where
they
just
appear
on
our
agenda
randomly.
We
think
it's
randomly.
We
know
that
there's
a
lot
of
work
that
goes
behind
that,
but
we
don't
know
what's
driving
those
conversations
and
behind
closed
doors.
So
what
I'm
trying
to
say
is
not
trying
to
take
a
a
long
time
here
talking
but
Perhaps.
It
is
good
to
for
all
of
you
to
take
a
look
at
the
at
the
at
the
document
that
Chris
has
put
together
and
provide
some
ways
to
make
this
easier
to
read.
H
Maybe
avoid
the
tables
I
know
they
are
confusing.
I
thought
they
were
confusing.
I
had
to
go
over
them
multiple
times
in
order
to
get
them,
but
I
ultimately
got
them,
because
the
strategies
anyway
I'm
not
going
to
get
into
the
document,
but
we
can
have
this
conversation
again
as
to
what
would
be
the
best
method
to
share
this
message,
because
I
do
think
that
there
is
a
lot
of
Merit
behind
this
work,
that
we
have
a
lot
of
questions
that
come
up
about.
H
H
How
are
these
decisions
being
made
and
if
we
need
to
simplify
this
document
in
order
to
get
the
conversation
rolling,
then
I
don't
see
any
any
issue
with
you
know
taking
another
two
weeks
or
whatever
the
case
may
be.
But
when
we
talk
about
the
responsibilities
of
the
of
the
commission,
I,
don't
think
that
training
is
going
to
get
us
to
a
different
point
in
January
or
whenever
it
is
that
we're
having
this
training,
because
we're
going
to
come
back
to
the
table
and
say:
okay
well
now
that
we're
all
trained.
H
What
do
we
think
about
this
document,
which
is
where
we're
at
we're
at
right?
Now,
that's
just
the
two
cents
that
I
had
if
we
need
to
make
a
document
that's
readable
and
that
we
all
can
understand
or
any
person
in
the
public
can
understand.
What
does
this
document
aim
to
achieve?
Then
we
can
all
put
our
our
heads
together
as
a
commission
and
say:
okay.
Well,
we
can
rally
behind
this
because
anyone
is
going
to
understand
what
we're
trying
to
achieve.
J
You've
got
to
separate
out
a
lot
of
the
chaff
from
from
that
from
from
the
charts.
Basically,
I
mean
if
it's
two
or
three
things
we
care
about
or
that
we're
curious
about,
or
that
feel
like
we're
not
able
to
vote
on
properly,
because
we
don't
know
enough,
then
I
think,
let's
focus.
Let's
drill
down
on
those.
E
If
I
could
add
one
other
point,
four
or
five
or
six
or
I
don't
know
longer
ago,
PNC
had
on
a
I
think
it
might
have
been
on
a
quarterly
basis,
actually
a
meeting
of
Commissioners
with
the
city
manager.
And
so
whenever
you
know
the
hot
issue
happened
to
be,
or
whatever
the
Commissioners
wanted
to
discuss
with
the
city
manager.
He
was
there.
E
D
D
So
if
we
could
do
a
work
session
right
and
again,
the
purpose
of
us
doing
this
in
isolation
within
this
within
the
subcommittee.
So
the
subcommittee
of
you
know,
Emily,
Joy
and
I
was
to
take
the
burden
off
of
staff,
not
add
hours
onto
the
day
and
make
sure
we
could
figure
out.
Okay,
can
we
crack
this
puzzle
there's
a
first
shot
at
it.
D
It'd
be
great
that
work
session,
where
we
actually
sat
around
looked
at
a
language
specifically
and
either
worked
through
it
structurally
and
say:
okay,
we're
going
to
cut
all
the
chaff,
and
now
we're
gonna
actually
work
on
the
meat
of
it
and
here's
what
the
meat
is
and
we
collaboratively
developed
a
document
that
would
be
highly
highly
useful
but
again
I
I
would
Echo.
The
other
comment
from
Johnny's
I
mean
I.
Think
most
of
us
have
sat
through
the
training.
The
training
is
on
the
procedures
of
this.
D
I
Your
hand
no
I'm
I'm,
okay
I'm
beyond
the
comfort
of
this
chair,
so
yeah
hi
I,
think
that
you
know
plans
are
messy.
I'll
put
it
that
way,
I've
been
on
various
boards
and
commissions
with
the
city
and
if
our
intent
is
to
ever
understand
how
projects
renewal
plans,
Tiff
tax
abatement
are
ever
applied
to
a
project,
and
we
want
to
have
some
authority
over
that
and
use
it
to
guide
our
decisions.
I
Good
luck,
you
know,
because
developers
will
stop
stop
coming
plans
will
stop
coming
we're
going
to
kill
all
the
effort.
That's
behind
planned,
Des
Moines.
In
my
opinion,
you
know
playing
DSM
whatever
we
want
to
call
it.
There
has
been
a
lot
of
plans.
There's
another
plan
for
downtown.
You
know:
I've
lived
here
33
years
and
I've
seen
so
many
plans
for
downtown
some
of
them
stick
most
of
them.
Don't
part
of
them
get
implemented
some
of
them.
Don't
I,
don't
understand
the
process
by
how
that
works.
I
I,
don't
want
to
I'm
just
glad
that
some
of
it
does
I
I
read
the
document
Chris
three
times
I
emailed
you
today,
I'm
Mike,
Andrew
I,
don't
get
it
I
before
we
move
it
much
further.
I
gotta
understand
that
there's
a
problem
at
the
staff
level
I
need
somebody
from
staff.
Somebody
from
counselor
somebody
to
say:
look
this
just
isn't
working.
You
guys
aren't
doing
your
job.
I
I
I
I
think
when
we
debate
issues
here,
there's
a
lot
of
things
in
the
zoning
code
that
I,
obviously
just
don't
agree
with
I'll.
Let
you
know
about
that.
When
it
comes
time
there
are
projects
that
we
hold
up,
because
the
guy
doesn't
want
to
put
a
sidewalk
in
there
are
projects
we
hold
up,
because
somebody
doesn't
want
to
grab
underground
power.
I
If,
when
we
slow
the
process
down,
it
kills
development,
it
kills
the
plan
and
I
I'm
a
True
Believer
in
you
know
the
theory
of
Occam's
razor.
The
simplest
way
is
the
most
precise
and
direct
way
of
solving
a
problem
and
I
just
think
I'm
getting
into
pulled
into
territory
where
it's
getting.
It's
making
everything
so
much
more
confusing
for
me
that
when
I
can't
think
through
an
issue
clearly-
and
we
can't
debate
it
clearly
and
I-
don't
even
know
what
the
problem
is.
That
leads
to
a
document
like
this.
I
Why
am
I
here?
You
know
it
makes
you
know,
I
want
to
make
Des
Moines
a
better
place.
What
is
the
plan
intended
to
do
is
to
make
the
place
better
for
human
beings
for
people
to
live
in
Des
Moines.
It's
not
to
make
the
plan
better.
It's
not
to
make
the
piece
of
paper
better:
it's
not
to
make
the
more
dense
environment
better,
it's
to
make
it
better
for
us
and
if
the
process
gets
so
convoluted
and
messy
yeah
I,
just
I,
don't
want
to
be
a
part
of
it.
D
To
Todd's
Point,
though
one
of
the
items
is
where
we
say,
there's
elements
of
the
ordinance
that
we
don't
agree
with,
there's
almost
an
ordinance
that
I
don't
agree
with
either.
But
what
is
the
actual
rationale
for
changing
them
right?
What
is
what
should
the
ordinance
be
if
we're
going
to
attain
those
goals
within
our
capability
of
driving
that
change,
we
must
have
a
strategic
Vision
to
understand,
which
ones
are
there
right
right,
135,
37
372
is
my
big
big
one
right.
It's
a
one
sentence
throwaway
that
could
be
so
much
more.
D
Why
is
it
only
what
it
is
right?
Why
can't
we
use
that
to
strategically
identify
that
we
do
want
distributed
local
agriculture
here,
that's
what's
the
strategy
for
that.
Well,
what
why
aren't
we
doing
that?
If
we're
going
to
be
able,
you
know
I
think
we
have
plenty
of
items.
We
Believe
are
problems.
The
question
is
well.
What
were
we
trying
to
achieve?
Can
we
clearly
articulate
what
the
strategy
is
that
we
have
in
place?
That's
identifying
these
tasks
based
on
our
goals,
and
if
we
can
do
that,
we
don't
slow
the
process
up.
D
We
speed
it
up
because
we
don't
have
to
debate
every
time.
Well,
why
is
the
spilling
get
that
that
get
that
the
strategy
is
hey
this
Falls
within
our
remit
of
X
and
therefore
yeah?
It
looks
like
an
edge
case,
but
no
this
is
it.
So
we
all
agree
on
that
cool.
It
actually
speeds
up.
Development,
provides
more
predictability
to
developers
and
allows
them
to
understand
in
the
course
of
the
years
it
takes
to
develop
these
long-term
processes
and
to
develop
these
ordinances.
What
we're
going
for
I
agree
aggressively
strategic
plans,
change.
D
It's
recommended
they're
reviewed
every
quarter.
If
not
half
year,
fine,
we
don't
have
one.
We
got
to
start
somewhere.
Is
it
going
to
change?
Yes,
but
you
don't
change
from
zero
change
from
something?
That's
the
purpose,
and
the
purpose
is
to
speed
up
to
reduce,
reduce
the
opportunity
for
that
inconsistency
between
elected
officials
between
us
between
those
staff.
That's
going
to
allow
a
developer
say:
that's
too
risky
because
it
doesn't
I,
don't
have
a
ground
to
stand
on
for
this
long-term
big
project
right.
D
D
That's
so
it's
ironically,
echoing
exactly
what
Todd
is
looking
for
us
to
do
long-term
predictability
with
access
to
investment,
because
we
know
the
strategies
that
will
still
May
modify
but
we'll
still
be
able
to
drive
a
more
often
changing
individual
or
specific
rule
or
specific
project.
Those
will
always
change
if
we
don't
have
consistency
over
which
next
Project's
next,
that
that
is
the
real
problems,
the
long-term
investment
and
the
big
Visions.
F
Okay,
so
I
think
everyone's
getting
a
little
I'm
looking
at
faces
and
tired
and
some
people
haven't
read
the
document
and
I
want
to
recognize
that,
because
I
don't
want
anyone
having
to
vote
on
something
they
haven't
read
so
I
want
to
get
to
somewhere
tonight.
Where
we
can
say
this
is
what
we're
doing.
This
is
how
we're
moving
forward
or
not
moving
forward
and
I
want
to
do
that
quick
more
quickly
than
not,
because
I
think
people
are
tired.
F
D
F
You
I
don't
even
want
to
get
there.
Is
there
even
I
guess
my
main
question?
Is
there
even
an
appetite
to
have
a
document
like
this?
Are
people
wanting
that,
if
they're
not
wanting
that
we're
not
gonna
waste
everyone's
time
is
that's
my
first
question?
If
there
is,
then
we
can
go
into
the
how
Todd
does
not
want
the
document
right,
it
sounds
like
like
I
have
input
from
a
few.
Should
we
just
vote
on
whether
or
not
we
want
to
move
forward
with.
A
A
F
Okay,
so
there's
three
people
so
I
think
this
is
then
we're
not
moving
forward,
so
I
think
Chris
and
I
mean,
from
my
understanding,
from
talking
to
Jason
from
talking
to
City
staff
from
talking
to
city.
Councilman
I've
talked
to
everyone
in
this
community
about
this
and
people.
If
they
do
have
a
an
issue,
they
can
always
take
it
to
city
council
themselves.
You
can
always
go
to
a
public
meeting
just
like
anyone
can
come
to
this
public
meeting
and
speak
so
that
is
an
Avenue,
correct,
Jason
yeah.