►
From YouTube: 8-24-22 Zoning Board of Adjustment
Description
Des Moines Zoning Board of Adjustment on Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 1 p.m.
View the agenda: https://dsm.city/zboaathome
C
A
Okay,
all
right
we're
ready,
you're
good,
I'm
sure
you
are
okay
all
right
good
afternoon,
ladies
and
gentlemen,
apologize
for
the
minor
delay,
but
we'll
go
ahead
and
get
going
here
good
afternoon.
Welcome
to
the
city
of
welcome
to
the
monthly
meeting
of
the
city
of
des
moines
zoning
board
of
adjustment.
A
The
members
of
this
board
are
citizens
of
the
city
of
des
moines
and
have
been
appointed
to
this
board
by
the
city
council.
The
board
members
are
volunteers
and
receive
no
compensation
for
their
public
service.
I'll
introduce
our
board
members.
Here.
We've
got
seven
of
us
appointed
to
the
board.
We
have
five
board
members
here
today.
I'm
going
to
come
back
to
that
in
a
minute,
but
I'll
go
ahead
and
introduce
our
board
members
on
the
audience's
right
is
justin
gross.
A
Next
to
him
is
rhonda
cedillo,
I'm
mel
pins.
The
board
chair
to
my
right
is
marlos
jones
and
to
the
audiences
far
left
here
shortly.
Nathan
blake
should
be
arriving
I'll,
introduce
our
city
staff,
who
will
be
assisting
us
today
with
our
hearing
the
zoning
board
of
adjustments.
Legal
counsel
is
mr
gary
guidelock
to
my
left.
A
Also
assisting
from
down
here
on
the
floor
is
frank:
dun,
young
senior
city,
planner,
bert
drost,
deputy
planning,
administrator
catherine
drajas,
city
planner
and
eric
lundy
zoning
enforcement
officer.
Our
meeting
moderator
here
in
our
it
right
here
in
front
of
me,
is
tyler
hall
I'll
go
ahead
and
cover
the
meetings
procedure.
Here.
A
The
board
of
adjustment
is
a
quasi-judicial
board.
This
hearing
will
be
conducted
within
the
procedures
and
format
as
authorized
by
iowa
law
and
this
city's
ordinances.
This
meeting
is
open
to
the
public.
The
meeting
is
also
being
recorded
by
both
audio
and
video
for
a
legal
record
of
these
proceedings.
A
The
board
members
have
each
received
a
copy
of
the
agenda
and
the
staff
recommendations
copies
of
that
agenda
and
staff
recommendations
were
available
just
right
out
here.
As
you
came
in
the
door,
so
if
you
didn't
get
one
yet
when
I'm
through
with
my
remarks,
feel
free
to
step
up
and
grab
one
of
those,
the
board
members
have
each
received
a
copy
of
that
agenda.
In
staff
rex,
the
board
is
required
to
base
its
decision
on
each
item
upon
the
criteria
established
by
law
for
the
type
of
relief
sought
by
the
applicant.
A
A
A
A
Then
we'll
take
public
comment
on
that
hearing
item.
Anyone
wishing
to
speak
in
support
of
in
opposition
to
or
even
in
neutrality
of
an
appeal
will
be
allowed
up
to
five
minutes
each
to
present
their
comments.
This
will
be
their
one
and
only
opportunity
to
address
the
board
regarding
the
agenda
item
at
hand.
A
If
you
do
wish
to
speak
on
an
agenda
item,
you
must
speak
only
from
the
podium
here
at
the
front
of
the
room,
we'll
kind
of
call
the
items
in
order
as
they
appear.
We
need
you
to
give
both
your
complete
name
and
address
as
appropriate,
either
your
business
or
residence
in
the
event
that
you
may
need
to
be
contacted
for
legal
notices
related
to
the
outcome
of
this
appeal.
A
All
speakers
are
requested
to
remain
courteous
and
to
focus
their
comments
only
upon
those
facts
that
demonstrate
whether
or
not
the
criteria
established
by
law
has
been
satisfied.
Speakers
are
asked
to
ensure
that
they're
respectful
of
time
considerations
and,
if
necessary,
the
board
chair,
will
limit
further
comments
by
speaker
if
they
exceed
their
time
limitation.
A
The
board
chair
will
then
close.
Any
further
public
comment
on
the
agenda
item
and
the
board
will
immediately
deliberate
the
request
and
make
a
decision
on
the
appeal.
Please
note
that
it
takes
at
least
four
affirmative
votes
for
any
zoning
appeal
to
gain
approval
and
I'm
going
to
pause
on
that
for
a
moment.
As
I
mentioned,
this
is
a
seven-member
board.
We
usually
have
very.
We
have
very
dedicated
members
all
the
way
around,
including
those
that
aren't
here
today,
but
there
are
occasions
where
we
don't
have
seven
members.
A
It
always
takes
four
votes
to
affirm
or
approve
any
appeal
that
we're
hearing.
If
we
get
down
to
five
members
like
we,
I
believe
we'll
have
today
when
nathan
gets
here
when
we're
down
to
five
members.
Again,
it
always
takes
four.
So
that's
eighty
percent.
So
when
we
get
to
that
point,
if
you've
got
an
agenda
item
and
you
feel
like
gee-
I
don't
know
those
aren't
the
best
odds
for
me.
I
would
rather
put
this
off
a
month.
A
A
Any
appeal
that
is
approved
by
this
board
must
be
implemented,
constructed
or
otherwise.
Utilized
within
two
years
of
the
date
of
the
decision
by
this
board
or
such
approval
shall
expire,
the
decisions
of
this
board
can
only
be
appealed
in
the
iowa
district
court.
So
if
you
believe
you've
been
harmed
by
an
error
made
by
this
board,
your
only
remedy
is
to
seek
relief
through
the
court
within
30
days
of
the
filing
of
the
board's
decision
and
order.
A
Any
material,
written
or
otherwise
used
today,
as
part
of
any
presentation,
is
part
of
the
permanent
record.
So
if
you
plan
to
present
any
photos,
documents
plans
that
you
haven't
already
provided
copies
of
to
city
staff,
you'll
need
to
do
that
and
if
you'd
like
a
copy
of
any
of
those
items,
please
contact
city
staff
after
the
hearing
just
a
couple
housekeeping
items,
please
avoid
any
undue
conversation
in
the
audience
so
as
to
limit
distractions
during
the
hearing.
A
You're
doing
a
fine
job,
please
ensure
your
cell
phone
has
been
silenced,
also
sounds
great
so
far,
and
if
you
need
to
use
the
restroom,
you
just
walk
out
these
doors.
You
don't
have
to
go
back
downstairs,
walk
past
the
staircase
and
there's
restrooms
on
your
left
by
the
elevators
subject
to
the
length
of
the
hearing,
we'll
take
a
break
at
around
3
or
3
30.
If
we
need
to
for
about
5
minutes
and
once
your
agenda
item
that
you're
interested
in
is
completed,
you're
welcome
to
leave
the
hearing.
C
C
Staff
had
requested
that
the
cumulative
area
of
the
three
wall
mounted
signs
shall
not
exceed
97.2
square
feet,
an
error.
It
had
only
indicated
what
was
earned,
which
was
82.5
square
feet.
So
staff
does
want
to
recognize
an
update
to
that
staff
wreck.
We
are
still
looking
to
leave
that
one
on
consent.
However,
and
then
we
do
have
two
additional
items
that
we
are
looking
to
have
moved
item
five
for
a
monument
sign
at
1014,
east
14th
street.
C
A
Okay,
all
right,
so
it's
okay
with
staff.
I
think
what
I'll
do
here
so
staff
has
proposed
adding
item
five,
a
zoning
exception
at
1014
east
14th
street
to
the
consent
agenda,
meaning
we
would
approve,
what's
been
requested
and
there
are
some
conditions
that
would
go
with
that.
So
I'm
just
curious
with
a
raise
of
any
hands
in
the
audience.
Would
there
be
anybody
opposed
to
us?
Moving
item
number
five
at
1014
east
14th
street,
for
a
sign
exemption
to
our
consent
agenda.
Anybody
be
opposed
to
that.
A
Okay,
seeing
none
item
eight
conditional
use,
permit
request,
that's
related
to
some
construction
of
some
changes
in
equipment
on
an
existing.
What
appears
to
be
an
underground
utility?
Would
anybody
be
opposed
to
us
moving
item,
eight
to
the
consent
agenda
for
potential
approval
at
4760,
east
watrus?
Item:
eight:
okay,
seeing
none
board
members
unless
there's
any
heartburn
items,
five
and
eight?
Would
there
be
a
motion
to
move
that
to
consent.
A
A
Okay,
all
right,
so
we'll
talk
slower,
okay.
So
now
what
we're
going
to
do
is
take
a
look
at
the
consent
agenda,
as
was
presented.
Initially,
we
had
items
one
two,
three
and
four
on
consent,
where
we've
added
five
and
eight
so
again
to
help
the
audience
here.
Basically,
we
would
be
looking
to
approve
the
requested
exemptions,
temporary
uses
or
conditional
use
permits
in
items
one
two,
three,
four,
five
and
eight.
Unless
there's
a
member
of
this
audience,
yeah.
A
I'm
sorry
yeah
so
items
one
two
five
and
eight
sorry
about
that.
I
missed
the
asterisk
right,
so
items
one
two,
five
and
eight,
so
I'm
gonna
go
ahead
and
read
through
those
again.
If
there's
anybody
that
would
be
opposed
us
granting
approval
on
item
one
which
is
a
temporary
use
related
to
outdoor
events
in
relation
to
the
grounds
in
or
around
veterans
auditorium.
There
would
be
anybody
opposed
us
granting
that
okay,
we've
got
one.
Member
of
the
audience
would
be
opposed
to
that,
I'm
assuming
they
want
to
speak
on
that
issue.
A
So
we'll
put
that
on
our
regular
agenda
item
two
is
a
zoning
exception
request
up
on
merle
hay
road
related
to,
I
believe
charles
gabis
ford.
Is
there
anybody
here?
That
would
be
opposed
to
us
granting
the
requested
zoning
exceptions
for
signage
on
item
two.
Just
raise
your
hand,
okay,
seeing
none
and
I'm
gonna
read
five
and
eight
again,
although
I
think
we
pulled
on
that
to
get
them
on
consent
item
five
zoning
exception
at
10,
14,
east
14th
and
item
a
conditional
use
permit
at
4760
east
watrus.
A
Anybody
in
the
audience
opposed
us
granting
those
all
right,
seeing
none
none,
then.
What
we'll
do
here
is
that
would
leave
us
with
items
two
five
and
eight
on
consent.
Would
there
there's
not
any
discussion
by
the
board?
Would
there
be
a
motion
to
grant
approvals
for
the
requested
relief
chair,
I'd
like
to.
A
All
right
motion
by
justin-
and
I
heard
rhonda
second,
okay,
all
those
in
favor
raise
your
right
hand.
All
right,
so
motion
carries.
So
if
you
were
here
for
items,
two
five
or
eight
those
appeals
have
been
approved.
Subject
to
the
staff
recommendations
contained
on
in
the
agenda.
You'll
get
a
copy
of
that
decision
in
order
next
week
for
your
records
in
case
you
need
any
sign
or
building
permits.
So
if
you're
here
for
items,
two
five
or
eight
those
have
been
approved,
and
we
thank
you
for
coming
down.
C
Good
afternoon,
chair
members
of
the
board,
frank
dunyoung
planning
staff,
and
so
the
proposal
in
front
of
us
today
is
for
use
of
the
property
for
up
to
two
outdoor
events.
Each
month
during
the
months
of
may
june
july
august
september
and
october
for
a
period
of
five
years,
ending
june
30th
2027,
the
property
is
within
the
vicinity
of
833
fifth
avenue
and
it
is
the
site
of
the
polk
county
veterans
auditorium.
C
C
Of
the
temporary
use
that's
being
requested
as
as
a
layout,
and
so
you
can
see
off
to
the
west
they'd
be
looking
at
there'd,
be
porta-potties
tables
set
up
along
the
north
side.
There
would
be
food
truck
some
administrative
type
uses
along
the
south
there'd
be
iowa
corn,
trailer,
radio
and
and
vendors,
along
with
some
band
parking
similar
off
to
the
east.
C
And
so,
with
the
a
granting
a
a
temporary
use,
the
there
is
a
limitation
to
the
quantity
that
can
be
administratively
allowed,
as
determined
by
the
deputy
zoning
enforcement
officer
in
this
instance,
due
to
the
nature
of
the
sites
being
the
event
center.
That
it
is,
there
is
a
proposal
to
have
more
than
would
be
typically
allowed.
Under
certain
circumstances,
staff
is
recommending
approval
of
the
rest
requested
temporary
use,
subject
to
a
set
of
conditions
that
are
typical
for
temporary
uses
and
I'll
go
ahead
and
scroll
through
what
those
conditions
would
be.
C
C
D
D
D
A
Any
other
questions
for
frank,
frank,
I
think
you
know
for
many
of
us,
certainly
in
the
city
of
des
moines
or
the
metro,
we've
probably
attended
an
event
down
there
at
community
choice,
veterans,
auditorium
hyvee
hall,
et
cetera.
I
know
I
can
certainly
remember
there
have
been
previous
outdoor
activities,
tailgating
events
etc.
A
C
That
that
is
correct.
Generally,
when,
when
someone
is
wishing
to
hold
a
temporary
use,
they
will
apply
to
the
deputy
zone
enforcement
officer
for
a
temporary
use.
However,
when
the
frequency
becomes-
and
I
would
ask
the
zone
enforcement
officer
to
expand
upon
the
number
when
when
it
creates
a
a
quantity-
that's
that's
sure
great
enough,
then
it
it's
determined
that
that
becomes
the
time
for
them
to
come
in
and
secure
an
amendment.
A
Right
so
maybe
occasional
versus
semi-regular,
maybe
it's
time
to
sit
down
and
then
review
some
ongoing
conditions,
and
that's
I'm
assuming
why
the
applicant
applied,
then
that
is
correct.
Yes,
okay,
good
enough
for
me,
okay,
anything
else,
all
right
so
applicant
or
representative
of
the
applicant,
if
they're
here
they
can
come
on
up
and
sir
I'll.
Have
you
give
your
name
and
address
in
a
second
but,
as
I
said,
for
the
regular
portion
of
the
agenda
since
there's
only
five
of
us
here
today?
A
He
wants
to
bring
some
since
there's
only
five
of
us
here
today
as
the
applicant,
you
have
the
right,
if
you
so
choose
to
exercise
it
to
ask
that
your
item
be
deferred
to
next
month.
I
can't
guarantee
that
there'll
be
seven
of
us,
but
if
you
feel
like
you
got
a
good
case
and
you
would
meet
the
requirements
and
the
ordinance
you're
you're
welcome
to
have
at
it.
So
it's
kind
of
like
now
or
later
so
we'll
go.
A
F
F
We
typically
don't
host
events
specifically
outside
that
are
really
a
stand-alone
outdoor
event,
but
there
are
times
where
we
want
to
do
some
pre-event
type
activities,
some
of
the
ones
we've
done
in
the
past,
with
our
tenant
hockey
team
they
like
to
do
kind
of
the
kick-off
season,
do
something
outdoor
just
to
kind
of
get
people
out
have
a
nice
time
with.
Typically
it's
a
small
band,
nothing
major,
really
our
bigger
acts
and
events.
You
know
we
are
hosting
inside,
but
it's
really
kind
of
a
pre-tailgate
type
event.
F
Our
numbers
that
we
see
as
far
as
people
that
do
attend
are
not
anywhere
close
to
the
actual
event
size.
We're
really
in
you
know
it
can
vary
anywhere
from
a
couple
hundred,
I
would
say
at
the
largest
we've
ever
done,
really
over
the
entire
time
that
we've
been
open
or
are
maybe
in
the
you
know,
750.
F
F
F
F
I
think
that's
kind
of
it
from
from
our
end,
we
did
provide
a
basic
layout
again.
Some
of
that
might
vary,
but
it's
really
some
food,
some
snacks,
family
friendly
bathrooms,
because
you
are
outside
and
then
you
know
some
type
of
entertainment,
some
different
booths,
some
different
things
to
give
away
corn
hole
that
type
of
thing.
That's
really
just
kind
of
a
family-friendly
atmosphere
before
we
have
our
event.
F
Correct
so
yes,
we,
there
is
some
flexibility
on
a
number
over.
The
entire
time
frame
of
may
to
october
would
be
four
really
to.
It's,
however,
makes
the
most
sense
by
either
requesting
per
month,
because
a
lot
of
it
again
depends
on
schedules
our
concerts
that
we
host
we're
booking
kind
of
years
in
advance.
So
we
don't
know
when
they're
going
to
come
and
that
will
kind
of
determine
when
we
want
to
do
these
events.
So,
yes,
there
is
some
flexibility
on
what
we're
requesting.
A
So
related
to
that
the
way
I
read
this,
what
would
be
allowed?
It
would
be
basically
no
more
than
two
per
month
correct.
So
if
you
don't
have
an
event
in
august,
then
you
can't
use
those
credits
to
have
more
in
september.
It'd
just
be
no
more
than
two
per
month,
and
that's
that's!
That's
what
it
boils
down
to
right.
F
Yes,
yeah
and
and
again
that's
where,
from
our
historically
we're
in
the
three
to
four
rain.
You
know
here
in
the
whole
year,
so
today
we
have
had
three
that
we
did
through
the
individual.
You
know
request,
but
we
are
looking
to
do
one
more.
So
that's
where
we're
now
here
kind
of
asking
for
some
some
more
options.
F
A
F
And
and
really
you
know
in
transparency,
that's
a
parking
lot
where
we
charge
parking
so
really
we're
looking
to
to
kind
of
use
that
as
parking
for
our
event.
So
that's
where
we
have
to
determine.
Does
it
make
sense
for
what
we're
trying
to
do
for
the
event,
but
for
the
most
part,
the
300-
and
you
know,
60
days
out
of
the
year,
it's
used
for
parking
yep.
A
Okay,
anything
else
for
the
applicant.
Okay,
all
right.
Thank
you,
sir.
You
can
go
ahead
and
sit
down.
Okay,
so
the
way
the
process
works
now.
Is
there
anybody
that
wishes
to
speak
in
support
of
the
applicant's
request,
anyone
that
wants
to
speak
in
support?
If
so,
you
can
just
step
on
up
okay,
seeing
none
is
anybody
that
wishes
to
speak
in
opposition
come
on
up.
H
H
They
might
as
well
bring
the
band
over
and
put
them
in
my
reception
area,
because
that's
what
it
sounds
like
it
is
just
so
loud,
so
our
objection
isn't
to
anything
they
want
to
hold
after
five
o'clock
on
a
monday
through
friday
or
anything
they
want
to
hold
on
the
weekend
that
that's
great
go
for
it.
They've
been
a
wonderful
neighbor
but
monday
through
friday,
8
30
to
5.
H
So
it
hasn't
happened
that
often,
but
obviously,
when
I
received
the
notice-
and
I
saw
on
there,
that
they
were
planning
on
having
live
music
and
having
bands.
I
knew
I
needed
to
make
sure
that
I
got
down
here.
So
you
know
we
employ
10
people,
and
so,
if
it's
allowed
to
go
on
monday
through
friday,
between
8
30
and
5,
I
basically
I'm
gonna
have
to
close
down
those
hours
because
we
can't
work
most
of
what
we
do
is
on
the
phone
and.
A
Your
comments
all
right.
Anybody
else
here
to
speak
in
opposition,
seeing
none
anybody
here,
just
speaking
neutrality
on
the
issue.
Okay,
seeing
none
with
that
any
further
questions
for
staff
zoning
enforcement
officer.
Would
you
like,
if,
if
you
feel
there's
something
that
would
be
helpful,
please
step
up.
I
I
And
outside
sound
now
they
could
get
a
sound
permit
just
for
sound
and
that
wouldn't
be
an
event.
But
it's
kind
of
having
these
this
collective
use
of
those
types
of
things
again
once
they
hit
this
threshold.
It's
been
my
determination
that
that's
beyond
the
intent
of
what's
considered
temporary
use.
So
then,
in
the
code
it
gives
the
provision
of
taking
following
the
conditional
use
procedure,
and
so
that's
what
brought
us
here
today.
I
would.
I
do
want
to
point
out
that
separately,
if
they
do
a
street
closure,
where
they're
actually
physically
closing
the
street.
I
So,
okay,
and-
and
this
is
actually
you
by
having
this
use,
things
in
other
parts
of
the
code
outside
of
zoning-
are
enabled
by
the
fact
that
it
has
a
conditional
use
such
as
they
don't
have
to
get
a
permanent
premise
permit
for
their,
and
they
can
have
more
than
one
food
vendor.
And
you
know
they
don't
have
to
have
a
conditional
use
for
their
liquor
sales,
because
it's
wrapped
into
this
temporary
event
situation.
So
that's
really
why
it's
coming
in
front
of
the
board.
E
A
Well,
eric,
while
you're
here,
you
know,
would
appear
if
there's
any
concern
with
this
from
the
public,
it
would
be
related
to
not
the
assembly
use,
but
potentially
you
know
some
sound.
That
could
be
a
nuisance,
and
I
see
that
in
the
staff's
recommendation
here
that
any
live
music
or
amplified
sound
will
be
in
accordance
with
the
appropriate,
sound
permit.
You
know
42
258
e1.
A
E
A
I
A
All
right,
so
if
there
were
no
further
questions
from
city
staff,
we
give
the
applicant
an
opportunity
for
rebuttal
if
they
so
choose
for
three
minutes.
In
this
case,
since
there
was
somebody
who
was
opposed
to
the
item,
I
don't
know
jack.
If
there's
anything
you
want
to
add
or
any
response
you'd
have
to
those
concerns
that
might
be
helpful.
F
Yes,
so
while
we
definitely
understand
the
the
work
hours,
there
is
also
some
flexibility
where
you
know.
Typically,
our
events
are
starting
at
the
end
of
the
day,
while
a
lot
of
them
are
pre.
Most
of
our
concerts
start
at
seven
o'clock,
so
we
are
finishing
prior
to
the
concert,
so
we're
finishing
by
seven
and
most
of
the
time
you
know
we're
asking
people
to
come
visit
that
are
working
so
really
we
are
starting
around.
F
Typically,
I
think
we've
been
in
the
three
to
four
start,
so
we
can,
you
know,
definitely
make
the
adjustment
that,
if
you
know
4
pm,
will
help
to
give
us
time
based
off
of
7
o'clock
start.
You
know,
if
that's
something
that
will
help,
so
we
can
have
the
flexibility.
That
is
something
we
can.
We
can
for
sure
can
work
with.
F
So
you
know,
based
on
typical
doors,
are
at
six
seven
o'clock
start
a
five
o'clock
limitation
doesn't
give
us
a
lot,
but
while
we
understand
how
it
impacts
our
neighbors,
we
are,
you
know
we
would
that
we
would
be
able
to
work
within
kind
of
that
adjusted
time
frame.
If
that's
some
restrictions
to
be
added
as
well.
A
G
Before
we
get
into
the
discussion
about
potential
start
time,
weekday
restrictions
to
go
back
to
the
issue
about
how
many
per
year.
I
wonder
if
we
think
that
it's
we
should
cap
that
at
like
half
a
dozen
or
something
like
that,
or
if
it's
not
necessary,
we
can
just
leave
it
and
they
could
have
up
to
12.
D
A
Yeah-
and
you
know-
sometimes
we
think
about
you
know-
let's
say
a
bar
or
something
oh
yeah,
friday
and
saturday
is
where
it's
at,
and
so
you
know
if
we
did
two
a
month
well
gee,
they
could
only
pick
one
weekend
for
music.
This
place
has
events
potentially
every
day.
You
know,
certainly
we
think
of
the
sporting
events
and
the
concerts
likely
weekends
and
evenings.
But
you
know
the
ncaa
tournament's
been
in
des
moines
twice
in
the
last
five
years,
they're
going
to
show
up
again,
I
think,
giving
them
some
flexibility
to
have.
A
A
A
A
I
think
that'd
be
great,
there's
a
delicate
balance
between
allowing
somebody
to
have
some
outdoor
sound
and
then
somebody
who
says
I
can
hear
it
or
it's
disruptive.
I
don't
know
how
their
office
is
set
up.
I
don't
know
if
they
have
appropriate
doors
or
windows
within
reason,
but
I
don't
think
that
the
board
should
be
taking
it
to
that
micromanagement
level.
This
is
a
temporary
use,
which
means
it's
like
a
conditional
use.
A
If
there's
a
problem
with
it
and
the
city
determines
hey,
we're
getting
way
too
many
complaints
here
and
staff
goes
out
and
observes
yep.
This
is
this
really
is
disruptive,
I'm
not
trying
to
disallow
the
testimony
here
per
se,
but
I
I
need
to
see
probably
a
lot
more
before
I'd
be
inclined
to
put
restrictions
on
the
the
when
I.
G
I
guess
I
disagree.
I
I
mean
we
already
have
restrictions
on
the
win
in
here
in
the
draft,
and
so
and
not
only
did
the
commenter
kind
of
suggest
specific
times,
but
when
jack
came
back
up,
he
kind
of
seemed
amenable
to
at
least
a
compromise
on
that
he
suggested
four
initially.
I
think,
and
that
seemed
to
give
him
enough
time
which
doesn't
seem
like
it
may
be,
is
entirely
satisfactory
to
the
the
person
who
commented,
but
it
does
seem
like
it
gets
us
somewhere
and
puts
some
guidelines
that
are,
I
agree.
G
A
K
A
F
And
I
did
say
typically,
we
start
between
three
and
four
okay,
so,
yes,
again
having
the
flexibility
is
important,
but
at
the
same
time,
having
an
understanding
of
kind
of
what
the
board
wants
to
decide.
If
there
are
things
that
you
know,
we
need
to
adjust,
ideally
having
that
the
flexibility
and
really
kind
of
understanding
what
we
can
do.
You
know
we
we
can
work,
as
I
do
understand.
What's
being
said,
okay.
D
F
Able
to
make
noise
through
sound
versus
setup
at
three
is
very
you
know
that
allows
us
we
would
still
need
to
be
setting
up.
So
I
guess
just
to
clarify
that
if
it's
turning
on
basically
the
music
at
three,
then
yes,
that
that's
something
that
we
for
sure
could
do
and
be
very
reasonable,
but
again,
knowing
that
it
they
can
take
place
on
the
weekends
as
well.
So,
okay.
A
D
D
A
A
I
A
I
A
Yeah
staff
can
make
that
clarification
for
us
and
recognize
holidays.
Is
that
clear
enough
for
the
record
all
right?
So
we've
got
a
a
motion
by
justin,
a
second
by
me,
with
a
friendly
amendment
by
nathan
to
allow
for
the
requested
temporary
use
to
be
no
more
than
two
outdoor
events
each
month
with
a
modification
on
item
five,
the
event
shall
only
occur
between
seven
am
and
eleven
pm
on
weekends
and
holidays
and
after
3
p.m.
On
weekdays,
is
that
correct?
A
Yes,
okay,
all
right,
if
everybody's
clear
on
that
we'll
go
ahead
and
take
a
vote
on
that
all
those
in
favor
raise
your
right
hand.
Okay
motion
carries
five
to
zero.
Okay.
I
think
that
should
work
out
well
for
everybody
and
kim,
I
always
remind
my
friends
to
not
park
on
the
private
business
lots
on
fifth
avenue,
including
the
bank.
A
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
A
Do
you
live
in
a
popular?
That's
that's
a
great
answer.
I
live
just
south
of
here
straight
south
of
here
within
two
blocks.
East
army
post
corridor
is
a
busy
commercial
corridor
with
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
zoning
activities
and
variety.
So
we
get
these
from
time
to
time
so
frank,
the
question
I
would
have
is
the
within
the
zoning
district.
This
is
classified
as
what
retail
sales
limited
is
that
right?
That
is
correct.
Yes,
what
does
that
term
generally
mean?
How
is
that
defined?
What
is
retail
sales
limited.
C
A
C
A
C
A
All
right-
and
we
can
sure-
ask
the
applicant
as
well
but
yeah.
I
just
want
to
get
your
take
on
kind
of
the
general
use
description
of
the
property
in
that
zoning
district.
Okay,
any
other
questions
all
right.
Thank
you,
frank.
Okay.
So
we
saw
this
with
the
first
item.
It's
the
applicant's
turn
to
speak
if
they
would
like
to
present
their
reasoning
for
their
case.
We
just
need
you
to
step
up
to
the
microphone.
A
A
A
L
So
I'm
here,
because
my
customers
are
requesting
beer
and
I've
seen
that
some
of
them
do
leave
without
buying
anything
because
they
do
want
to
buy.
You
know
just
go
to
one
stop
shop
and
get
everything
together,
and
I
mean
I
feel
like
it
could
help
us
with
ourselves
too,
because
I
mean
I
don't
we
don't
plan
to
have
a
lot
of
beer,
it's
just
one
fridge
and
you
know
like
once
they
get
in
there.
They
can
get
their
beer
and
you
know
like
produce
or
whatever
else
that
they
need
to
buy.
L
A
A
A
A
L
E
A
If
we
said
something
like
no
signs,
promoting
alcohol
can
be
visible
on
the
windows
or
the
exterior
of
the
building.
You
know
just
to
kind
of
keep
that
as
the
minor
portion.
If
you
want
to
have
a
sign
inside
above
the
cooler,
you
know
it's
inside,
it's
not
under
our
jurisdiction,
but
if
we
had
a
minor
condition
like
that,
as
maybe
a
way
to
meet
in
the
middle
here,
so
you're,
not
advertising
beer
on
the
exterior.
Would
that
be
something
that
would
be
acceptable?
Yes,
just
as
a
point
of
discussion
here.
A
A
I
know
we've
had
a
few
cases,
you
know
maybe
similar
or
a
little
different,
where
again
it
wasn't
a
tavern,
it
wasn't
a
liquor
store,
but
this
ordinance
that
was
written
about
10
years
ago.
I
remember
the
intent
behind
it
and
but
it
seems,
like
we've,
been
kind
of
we've
hemmed
in
ourselves
on
a
lot
of
uses
here
with
this
I've,
even
I'd
like
to
maybe
ask
if
some
of
this
could
be
relooked
at
the
council
level,
but
it
is
what
it
is
and
in
this
case
right
right
now
for
what
it
would
be.
A
G
G
Absent
that
you
know
they're
the
elected
officials
who
set
policy
yep
and
our
our
role
is
to
implement
the
the
law
to
the
best
of
our
ability,
and
I
think
normally
you
know
if
it
wasn't
within
150
feet
of
a
church.
I
would
have
no
problem
at
all.
Granting
the
conditional
use
permit,
but
just
to
explain
it
a
little
further.
M
A
On
the
back
end,
here
we
usually
do
any
other
business
or
some
new
business
at
the
very
end
of
the
hearing,
and
maybe
I
could
ask
our
deputy
zoni
administrator
to
talk
with
us
a
little
bit
about
that,
because
I
think
staff
staff
may
be
in
conversation
with
some
other
citizens
and
some
neighborhood
folks
have
discussed,
maybe
re-looking
at
the
at
that
part
of
the
ordinance
related
to
alcohol
sales.
But
but
we
can
cover
that
toward
the
end
of
the
hearing
yeah.
A
A
We
can
deny
the
variance
we
can
see
how
that
goes.
All
right,
so
we've
got
a
motion
to
deny
the
requested
variance
motion
by
nathan.
Second,
by
marvelous,
all
those
in
favor
raise
your
right
hand
to
deny
that's
one,
two,
three,
those
opposed
that's
two
so
help
us
out
here
in
the
box
scoring.
So
there
was
a
motion
to
deny
in
essence
that
motion
failed.
Then
it
didn't
gain
four
votes.
D
A
G
For
denial,
I
mean
we've
definitely
had
instances
in
the
past
where
we
haven't
hit
before
I'm
just
trying
to
think
of
whether
it
was
a
denial
right
and
then
we'd
allowed.
I'm
thinking
I
mean
I'd
certainly
have
no
objection.
Personally,
even
though
I
voted
for
the
winning
side
to
hearing
other
alternative
motions
and
then
going
through
that
process,
I
think
what
we're
going
to
end
up
with
is
the
same
position,
which
is
we're
not
going
to
be
able.
A
N
Well,
I
think
the
board
can
certainly
reconsider.
You
know
you,
I
guess
we're
just
think,
I'm
distinguishing
in
my
head
between
like
a
motion
to
reconsider
versus
a
new
motion,
and
I
think
that
might
be
a
meaningless
distinction.
Okay.
I
because
I
think,
with
the
way
that
the
motion
was
presented,
if
it
failed
yeah
are
arguably
you
know
at
the
question
that
the
chair
asked
that's
really
the
same
thing
as
affirmatively
granting
or
affirmatively
denying.
I
know
yeah,
okay,
I'm
not
making
a
lot
of
sense.
No.
E
N
A
N
I
think
that's
the
outcome
I
mean
if
we
wanted
to
for
just
for
clarity's
sake
and
again,
assuming
that
another
motion
could
be
entertained
and
I
can't
think
of
a
reason
why
it
couldn't
be
entertained.
At
this
point
I
mean
we
could
make
a
motion
to,
but
simply
to
deny
the
requested
relief
and
then
vote.
So
an
affirmative
vote
on
that
would
would.
G
A
A
N
A
A
A
K
Mr
chair
members
of
the
board,
bert
ross
planning
staff
for
the
city
of
des
moines
item
number
four
is
a
request
for
a
use:
variance
for
use
of
the
property
at
3732
easton
boulevard
for
an
office
use
the
subject.
Property
is
located
on
the
north
side
of
easton
boulevard
just
across
the
street,
from
the
city's
four
mile
community
center.
K
So
if
you
look
at
the
blue
lines
on
this
map,
that's
the
zoning
boundaries
so
everything
to
the
left
of
this
blue
line.
Here,
if
you
see
my
cursor
is
owned,
f,
flood
district
and
when
the
city
adopted
the
new
zoning
map
in
2019,
the
city's
flood
district
followed
the
fema
designated
100
year.
Flood
plain,
so
that's
why
this
property
subject:
property
in
yellow
is
primarily
predominantly
zoned.
F
flood
district.
K
So
a
couple
months
ago
the
city
council
denied
a
request
to
rezone
the
property
to
a
commercial
district.
In
order
to
allow
the
office
use.
I
think
the
council
determined
that
it
would
be
better
to
leave
its
own
flood,
but
then
to
grant
or
to
consider
a
specific
use
variance
by
the
board.
So
it's
just
a
little
history
on
this
property.
A
K
K
K
Correct
and
the
city's
bought
out
most
of
the
residential
properties
in
the
vicinity.
The
city's
programs
only
purchase
residential
properties.
The
city
doesn't
have
any
buyout
programs
for
commercial.
Otherwise,
I
think
this
property
would
have
been
a
prime
candidate
for
being
bought
out
by
the
city.
K
K
This
is
just
looking
down
east
37th
court
and
you
can
see
most
of
the
homes
have
been
removed
and
the
land
is
now
owned
by
the
polk
county
conservation
board.
So
the
applicant
has
aware
of
the
propensity
to
flood
here
so
they've
designed
a
flood
wall
that
they
can
construct
around
the
perimeter
of
the
building.
K
It's
this
drawing
here
at
the
left.
Our
engineering
department
has
reviewed
this
design.
It
still
needs
final
approval,
but
the
engineering
department
has
determined
that
what's
being
proposed
is
workable
and
it
could
potentially
meet
the
requirements
for
being
in
a
flood
plain,
our
staff
recommendation
believe
it
or
not.
We
are
recommending
approval
of
a
variance.
I
think
this
is
the
first
time
staff's
been
supportive
of
a
variance
in
several
years,
but
we
do
feel
that
it
has
satisfied
the
criteria
necessary
for
granting
a
variance
and
I'll
just
show
you.
K
Those
put
these
up
on
the
screen
right
now
so
of
the
three
criteria.
The
first
is
that,
without
the
variance
there's
no
other
reasonable,
permitted
use
of
the
property
that
is
allowed
and,
in
this
case,
a
property
zoned
f
flood
district,
which
our
code
only
allows
a
few
uses
to
occur
in
the
f
district.
Most
of
those
are
utilities
or
public
recreation
type
uses.
K
So
we
do
believe
that
without
this
variance,
there
really
is
no
other
economic
value
of
the
property,
and
the
second
one
is
the
plight
of
the
owner
is
due
to
unique
circumstances
not
of
the
owner's
own
making.
We
feel
that
the
applicant
has
also
demonstrated
this
criteria.
They
purchased
the
property
back
in
2021,
it's
been
in
the
floodplain
for
many
years
prior
to
that,
so
they
really
didn't
cause
the
circumstances
themselves
and
then.
K
That's
true
yeah,
but
okay,
it's
been
zoned
for
several
years
and
then
the
third
one,
the
use
authorized
by
the
zoning
variants
would
not
alter
the
residential
or
the
essential
character
of
the
area,
and
we
feel
that
an
office
use
there
is
a
pretty.
I
guess,
non-obtrusive
use,
it's
not
going
to
be
a
major
type
like
a
liquor
store
or
anything
that's
going
to
attract
a
lot
of
customers
coming
and
going.
K
So
we
also,
we
do
feel
that
the
proposed
office
use
would
be
in
keeping
with
the
character
of
the
neighborhood,
but
we
have
recommended
a
number
of
zoning
number
of
conditions
to
ensure
that
the
business
is
carried
out
properly.
The
first
of
that
is
that
they
need
to
comply
with
the
chapter
50
of
the
city's
municipal
code,
which
deals
with
the
flood
plain
regulations.
K
As
I
mentioned,
that
plan
that
they've
devised
to
construct
the
flood
wall
around,
it
appears
to
be
a
workable
plan,
but
they
would
still
need
to
you
guys,
get
final
approval
from
the
engineering
department
to
make
sure
that
the
floodplain
or
the
floodproof
steps
that
they're
wanting
to
take
do
comply
with
chapter
50
of
the
city's
code.
Okay,
the
second
one,
just
any
design
or
end
use
of
the
building
should
not
impede
emergency
access
to
the
subject
property
or
to
the
surrounding
neighborhood.
K
K
Six,
a
copy
of
the
board's
decision
in
order
shall
be
recorded
at
the
appellant's
expense,
so
any
future
property
owners
are
aware
and
then
seven
the
zoning
officer
shall
bring
the
board,
but
the
use
reigns
back
to
the
board
if
the
use
becomes
a
nuisance
and
the
applicant
has
let
us
know
they
do
agree
with
all
of
these
conditions.
So.
G
K
Of
it
has
to
do
with
our
flood
insurance
rates
right
if
the
city
has
a
lot
of,
I
guess
properties
that
are
flooded,
then
the
flood
insurance
that
the
standard,
homeowner
or
the
rate
that
the
homeowners
charge
will
be
higher.
So
the
city
does
what
we
can
to
prevent
any
building
or
any
use
from
being
in
the
flood
plain
just
to
keep
those
flood
insurance
rates
as
low
as
possible
for
the
citizens.
A
A
A
K
K
A
A
A
A
M
M
M
A
M
A
A
A
D
P
P
So
it
is
right
up
against
the
face
of
the
building,
so
we
would
be
doing
a
flood
proofing
wall
of
concrete
four
to
five
inches
thick
to
make
the
existing
wall
impermeable
so
that
kind
of
brown
and
then
we're
trying
to
keep
as
much
facade
on
the
front
so
that
we
would
have
some
drop-in
panels
that
would
get
have
some
set
up
time.
So,
during
a
flood
warning,
they'd.
P
E
A
P
A
All
right,
yeah
yeah,
because
I
think
there'd
still
be
some
site
plan
requirements
to
meet
if
we
approve
this
okay
and
that's
beyond
us,
but
I
was
just
curious.
Okay,
all
right,
any
other
questions
for
luke.
Okay.
Thank
you,
sir.
Very
innovative.
Okay,
all
right
anybody
else
that
wants
to
speak
in
support
of
the
applicant
all
right,
seeing
none
anybody
wishes
to
speak
in
opposition
or
even
neutrality,
seeing
none
any
further
questions
for
staff
or
anything
staff
feels
they
really
need
to
share.
A
A
Yeah
yeah
this
as
bert
presented.
This
is
a
unique
one.
I
understand
the
intent
of
the
flood
zoning
district
for
new
development.
We
don't
want
anybody
to
build
there,
but
we're
all
stuck
between
a
rock
and
a
hard
place
when
you've
got
a
building
sitting
there,
especially
when
the
city
either
can't
or
doesn't
do
buyouts
with.
You
know,
probably
cdbg
and
some
other
things.
So
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
catch-22
but
yeah.
How
can
anybody
use
this
property
productively?
I
don't
see
how
they
can.
A
O
A
Okay,
a
second
all
right
motion
by
marlins
second,
by
ronda,
to
approve
the
requested
use
variants
for
business
office
use
within
the
flood
district
subject
to
the
conditions
presented.
All
those
in
favor
raise
your
right
hand
say:
aye.
Aye.
All
right
motion
carries
five
to
zero.
Okay,
we
look
forward
to
your
project.
There,
there'll
be
some
creative
engineering
and
it'll
be
a
safe
way
to
get
that
reused
thanks
for
coming
in
today.
Q
Q
Q
Excuse
me
the
appellant
is
requesting
a
sign
that
would
be
10
feet
in
height
and
40
square
feet
in
area
at
15
units.
Here's
a
few
site
photos
to
provide
you
some
context.
There
is
a
new
retaining
wall
as
part
of
the
floor
drive
improvements
that
has
been
installed,
and
then
this
is
from
the
corner
at
willowmere
looking
north
along
floor,
and
actually
the
sign
would
be
located
in
the
general
vicinity
right
above
that
corner.
Q
D
G
A
Q
Recommending
approval
of
a
sign
that
kind
of
hits
in
between
what's
allowed
and
what's
requested,
of
24
square
feet
and
or
8
feet
in
height
and
then
just
that
one
monument
sign
and,
and
then
generally
you
know
we're
obviously
talking
about
some
fun
little
issues
and
details
with
that
city
retaining
wall.
The
sign
would
not
be
allowed
within
the
public
right
of
way.
So
it
would
have
to
be
just.
O
G
A
Q
A
A
G
Q
Q
A
A
R
D
R
On
different
options
and
where
they
want
that
sign,
so
we've
talked
about
putting
it
down
below
but
found
that
that
would
push
pedestrians
towards
the
street.
So
that's
kind
of
what
led
to
the
difficulties
with
the
height
of
it,
I
think
other
than
that
it's
been
pretty
well
covered.
So
I'll,
just
let
anyone
else
speak
on
it.
G
Sure
so
the
city
is
recommended.
It
sounds
like
the
square
footage.
Technically
is
40
square
feet.
The
city
has
recommended
a
limitation
of
24
square
feet.
Is
that
something
that
your
client
thinks
is
insufficient
for
kind
of
the
science
purposes?
Or
is
it
something
that
you're
in,
like
you,
can't
really
do
the
design
that
you
guys
have
put
put
together
or.
R
A
If
I
could
have
staff
put
up
that
profile
picture
the
color
drawing
of
yeah,
so
dan,
I'm
assuming
that
the
way
the
sign
is
shown
in
the
above
illustration
is
the
area
that
you
would
be
proposing
of
of
how
it
would
look
for
scope
and
scale
right.
So
that's
the
40
square
feet
there
of
how
that
would
look
right
from
willowmare
and
fleur
across
from
the
intersection
there.
Okay.
E
A
B
Good
afternoon,
paula
noonan
and
I
live
at
3001
fluid
drive.
So
if
you
went
back
to
the
picture
that
showed
the
properties
that
were
surrounding
the
adjacent
properties,
the
three
that
are
across
the
street
from
them
on
floor,
I'm
the
one
house
beyond
the
border
of
being
able
to
send
in
a
card.
So
our
problem
with,
what's
going
on
with
the
corner,
is
you
already
have
a
wall
that
when
I
walk
by
it,
it
comes
up
to
here
on
me
and
now
you're
going
to
add
a
sign?
B
That's
4x4
on
top
of
it,
so
it's
going
to
be
way
up
there
and
then
they're,
adding
additional
size
and
meter
to
that
purely
for
vanity's
sake,
and
this
project
has
already
had
a
lot
of
scope
creep.
They've
come
before
planning
and
zoning.
I've
been
here
many
times
along
with
many
of
our
neighbors
and
the
900
signatures
that
we
had
in
opposition
to
rezoning
this
to
nx1,
because
all
of
our
houses
are
an
n3a
we're
ranch.
B
Houses
were
one
level
houses,
so
this
is
a
very
imposing
project
on
the
corner
that
overshadows
most
of
the
homes
in
the
area.
So
I'm
asking
that
the
board
here
consider
keeping
it
within
the
current
zone
of
the
nx1
4x4.
We've
had
a
lot
of
imposition
already
and
if
we
could
just
start
containing
some
of
the
scope
creep,
we
we
welcome
the
development
we
welcome
having
new
neighbors,
but
it's
already
the
size
and
scope
is
overshadowing
us
with
the
three-story
structures
that
are
going
up
there.
So
we're
just
asking
for
some
containment
on
this.
B
E
G
B
Visual,
we
already
have
visual
obstructions
on
fluid
that
cause
a
lot
of
accidents
almost
in
front
of
that
property
straight
across
the
street
from
my
home,
and
then
that
corner
of
willowmere
has
been
very
dangerous,
with
accidents
as
well,
especially
in
winter
months,
with
runoff
from
ice
from
snow
from
everything
else.
This
sign
is
adding
another
obstacle
in
position
where
you
have
to
kind
of
keep
inching
up
towards
the
corner,
to
get
around
to
get
a
good
visual
impact
and
the
whole
level
of
that
side
is
just
raising
up
an
elevation.
B
There
was
supposed
to
be
openings
to
each
threshold
of
each
house
facing
flu
or
according
to
plan,
dsm,
chapter
134
and
135
on
this.
So
all
of
those
openings,
as
you
can
see,
there's
a
solid
wall.
Those
openings
aren't
even
happening
there.
So
I
I
don't
know
how
people
are
getting
access
to
floor
unless
they
walk
around
the
whole
block
to
get
there.
B
E
A
S
S
So
if
we
could
go
back
to
one
of
the
photos
that
you
had
on
willowmere
there-
and
I
just
want
to
piggyback
on
paula's
statement
right,
quick,
yes,
thank
you.
This
is
a
perfect
example
of
what
she
was
talking
about,
how
we
already
have
a
visual
obstruction,
and
we
did
prior
to
this
wall
with
that
hill.
That
was
right
there,
but
they
took
that
hill
out
and
they
encroached
even
further
towards
fleur
with
this
wall.
So
there
are
plenty
of
visual
obstructions
there
and
it
creates
a
major
safety
issue
for
us
residents.
A
G
E
A
A
It's
non-illuminated,
okay,
all
right.
Okay,
all
right,
then
we'll
close
public
portion.
Well,
we
did
have
people
who
were
in
opposition,
so
dan
you've
got
the
opportunity.
If
you
want
to
say
anything
else,
you
can
you
don't
have
to
it's
up
to
you,
you're,
good,
okay,
all
right,
we'll,
go
ahead
and
close
the
public
portion
and
then
and
go
to
board
deliberation
thoughts
among
members.
G
Hey
so
I,
like,
I
said
earlier,
run
by
this
location
multiple
times
a
week
and
drive
by
it
multiple
times
a
day,
yep,
and
I
think
my
first
of
all
just
very
appreciative
that
this
development's
going
in
there.
I
think
it's
incredibly,
it's
exactly
a
type
of
development
that
should
be
going
along
one
of
our
busiest
roads
in
the
city
and
happy
to
to
see
that
type
of
infill
development,
increasing
density
in
our
in
des
moines.
G
With
respect
to
this
question
I
mean
they're
kind
of
the
the
height
requirement
seems
a
little
silly
because
they're
on
top
of
something
that
they
is
built
in
right,
I
unders
I
mean
I
think
I
understand
what
the
neighbors
are
saying.
I'm
not
sure
if
I
buy
into
that
entirely,
because
the
city
is
the
one
doing
all
the
restrictions
and
guidance
about
how
that's
being
built
and
the
right
of
way
and
the
sight
lines
etc.
Like
that's
all
going
to
be
done,
it's
a
necessary
component,
I'm
open
frankly
to
what
they
asked.
G
I'm
also
open
to
what
staff
recommended.
I'm
not
sure
if
that
makes
that
big,
I'm
not
really
convinced
that
it
needs
to
be
as
big
as
it
is
and
like
going
along
with
what
would
be
allowed
in
a
16.
You
know
versus
a
15..
I
I
think
that's
a
reasonable
kind
of
limitation,
but
I'm
actually
not
convinced
it
needs
to
even
be
that.
E
A
A
A
The
current
zoning
would
only
allow
it
to
be
two
by
two:
that's
nothing!
You,
you
wouldn't
even
see
it
to
me.
It
wouldn't
be
effective.
I
I
would
want
this
property
to
be
identified
if
I
was
a
prospective
tenant
or
if
I
was
delivering
something
there
through.
You
know
all
these
delivery
services,
but
by
the
same
token,
yeah.
I
also
don't
think
it
needs
to
be
some
monolith
that
you
know
waves
a
lot
bigger
than
it
needs
to
be.
A
If
there
was
one
more
unit
here,
they'd
be
allowed
to
have
a
sign
of
24
square
feet
and
8
foot
in
height
and
that's
pretty
much
what
staff
has
proposed
as
a
kind
of
meet
in
the
middle
40
might
be
a
little
big.
I
agree
with
with
nathan.
You
know
we.
We
have
to
kind
of
make
sure
here
as
a
board.
We
always
have
to
make
sure
that
our
logic
and
our
reasoning
is
based
on
the
principles
we
have
to
me.
A
A
So
I
think
it
comes
back
to
what's
reasonable
within
the
neighborhood,
for
not
only
the
property
but
the
surrounding
area.
I'd
support
the
staff
wreck
and
and
that'll
be
my
top
end
sure
I'll
make
a
motion
for
staff
recommendation
for
approval
of
the
type
2
zoning
exception,
subject
to
the
following
conditions
as
they've
presented.
If
there's
other
comments
or
a
second
might
entertain
that
all
right
so
motion
in
a
second
motion
by
mel
second
by
marvelous,
all
those
in
favor
to
grant
staff
recommendation
raise
your
right
hand
say
aye.
A
I
A
In
the
back
of
my
mind,
that
was
kind
of
something
that
I
had
considered
as
well,
that
it's
not
going
to
be
internally
lighted,
but
that's
a
non-issue
for
now.
They
they
could
look
at
external,
minor
lighting,
okay,
all
right!
Well!
That
concludes
that
item
again
decision
orders
will
be
available
by
mid
next
week.
So
if
somebody
needs
to
apply
for
an
amended
sign
permit,
they
can
do
that.
Then
that'll
bring
us
then
to
take
a
look
where
we
were
at
here.
A
C
Chair
member
members
of
the
board,
the
proposal
in
front
of
us
for
at
4100
mm
high
road
is
a
proposal
for
installation
of
two
wall.
Signs
within
cx
district
one
sign
would
be
18.55
square
feet.
Illuminated
wall
sign
to
be
installed
on
the
east
frontage
wall.
The
other
sign
would
be
29.15
square
feet.
Illuminated
wall
sign
to
be
installed
on
the
north
non-frontage
wall.
This
requires
a
type
2
zoning
exception
of
25.2
square
feet
over
the
22.5
square,
feet
of
sign
area
earned
on
the
east
frontage
wall.
C
That's
based
upon
a
calculation
of
earnings
of
1.25
square
feet
times
the
lineal
footage,
which
is
18
feet
along
that
frontage,
which
gets
them
to
the
22.5
square
feet.
The
the
second
appeal
would
be
type
2.
Zoning
exception
of
17.9
square
feet
over
the
maximum
11.2
square
feet
of
sign
area
allowed
for
a
sign
on
the
north
non-frontage
wall,
which
is
based
upon
50
percent
of
the
signage
area,
earned
on
the
east
frontage
wall
of
the
building.
C
The
property
is
bounded
by
mohay
road
on
the
east
aurora
avenue
on
the
north
and
then
the
the
haymarket
mall
development
right
there
with
with
the
number
of
existing
businesses
along
the
frontages
there.
There
are
a
couple,
restaurants
that
are
going
to
be
on
either
side
of
the
scooter's
drive-through
coffee
shop
that
is
being
constructed
at
the
site.
C
This
would
be
a
southwestern
facing
view.
Both
of
these
views
are
from
the
muray
road
perspective,
but,
as
you
can
see,
the
site,
the
scooter's
coffee
shop
would
be
set
back
about
70.
A
little
more
than
70
feet
from
the
the
property
line
is
is
where
the
building
itself
would
sit,
and
so
here
is
is
a
final
aerial
of
the
site.
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
So
long
as
the
square
footage
of
the
proposed
signs
on
the
east
and
north
frontage
facades
of
the
building
do
not
exceed
33.75
square
feet.
This
is
equivalent
to
fifty
percent
more
than
the
signage
area
that
is
earned
and-
and
that
is
a
typical
cut
off
for
what
staff
would
generally
be
supportive
of
the
the
the
appellate,
obviously
is
asking
for
more
square
footage
than
than
that.
So
that
is
why
this
item
wouldn't
have
been
requested
to
be
moved
to
consent
and
we're
discussing
it
here,
and
so,
as
staff
recommendation.
G
Nathan,
why
stop
now?
So
it's
been
a
hot
bench
today,
so
the
it
took
me
a
while
to
figure
out
the
math,
but
as
I
understand
it,
the
first
calculation
here
is
just
the
raw
calculation
of
what
they've
requested
over
what
they've
earned
correct
like
aggregate
yes
and
then
the
second
one
is
you've
kind
of
done.
A
is
the
east
or
the
north
non-frontage
wall
is.
Is
this
in
code
always
or
is
this
just
like
a
a
staff
shortcut,
the
50
of
what's
been
earned
on
the
east
side.
C
C
A
Yeah
to
expand
a
little
bit
off
nathan,
there
too,
you
know
this
seems
simple,
but
kind
of
complicated.
At
the
same
time,
the
number
of
signs
is
not
an
issue.
The
facades
or
the
walls
they're
on
is
not
an
issue
north
south
east
west,
whatever,
but
that
area,
whether
individual
or
combined,
they
were
looking
for
some
variances
per
se.
A
Exactly
which
puts
us
rounding
you're
within
about
10
feet
of
what
they
were
10
square
feet
of
what
they
were
requesting
just
just
kind
of
proportionately.
They
they
wanted
to
be
combined
just
a
little
bit
bigger
than
what
staff
recommendation
is,
but
your
recommendation
then
keeps
it
into
that
50
percent
kind
of
a
little
bit
of
a
you
know
just
kind
of
a
meet
in
the
middle
thing
right.
That's
correct,
yeah,
a
staffs
rack!
A
A
C
N
A
A
J
Thank
you.
I've
driven
around
all
of
the
sites
today,
as
we've
been,
we
have
three
locations
that
are
under
construction
now
or
soon,
and
two
of
these
locations
are
in
this
exact
same
zone
with
the
exact
same
problem.
So
you
might
see
one
of
us
next
month,
but
today's
meeting
details
are
going
to
kind
of
determine
how
we
proceed
on
that
next
meeting
as
well,
but
we
I've
been
doing
the
science
for
scooters
for
10
years
now,
and
we've
run
into
this
square
footage
issue
commonly.
J
J
What
happens
is
when
our
short
end
of
the
building
is
facing
the
frontage
of
the
street
and
that's
what's
basing
our
frontage
of
the
signs
for
the
whole
building.
We
run
into
these
problems
where
we
can't
adequately
sign
the
property
so
that
it's
visible
to
customers-
and
I
know
the
easy
answer
typically
is
well.
Why
don't
you
just
put
scooters
up
there?
We
did
that
once
almost
ten
eight
to
ten
years
ago,
actually
in
des
moines-
and
I
have
not
stopped
getting
phone
calls
about
it
since
then-
that
that
will
never
ever
happen
again.
J
J
Q
J
One
more
thing
I
did
want
to
say
too
part
of
our
dilemma
is
as
well
with
what
I
was
saying.
It's
important
to
say
a
scooter's
copy
drive
through
is.
We
can
only
reduce
those
down
so
much
before
we
can't
build
them
without
having
significant
modifications
to
the
sign,
because,
as
they're
drawn
right
now,
we
barely
have
enough
room
to
get
a
hand
down
inside
of
them
to
place
leds
inside.
A
A
J
A
A
J
J
A
D
A
A
A
I
got
you,
okay,
any
other
questions
for
the
applicant
all
right.
Thank
you,
andy.
Okay,
thank
you.
I
see
a
lot
of
people
in
the
audience,
so
we
may
still
have
a
lot
of
comments
here.
Anybody
speak
in
support,
opposition
or
neutrality
step
forward,
seeing
none
any
further
questions
for
staff,
seeing
none,
we'll
close
the
public
portion
and
go
to
board
deliberation.
G
So
I
I
think
I'm
ready.
I
I
understand
why
staff's
making
this
recommendation,
but
I
think
it's
too
limited.
I
think
there
are
a
couple
different
ways
you
can
think
about
this
one
is
I
mean
if
they
just
turned
to
the
building
when
they
were
building
it,
they'd
have
the
capacity
to
do
it
based
on
earned
space
or
you
could
think
of
it,
as
this
is
a
freestanding
ability
building
in
the
middle
of
of
a
parking
lot.
That
actually
does
have
multiple
front.
G
Multiple
frontage
spots
right,
yes,
and
so,
if
you
were
to
think
about
it
that
way,
they
would
also
earn
more,
and
I
understand
why
staff
is
recommending
50
more
because
that's
their
custom,
which
I
appreciate,
but
I
think
from
my
perspective,
they've
they've
earned
this
and
I
think
it's
an
appropriate
use
in
an
appropriate
setting
and
they
meet
all
the
other
requirements
for
type
2
exception,
not
a
variance,
thankfully,
that
we're
not
dealing
with
that.
In
this
context,
and
I'm
sure
if
dave
was
here,
he'd
agree
with
me.
A
A
Yeah,
there's
a
lot
of
view
sheds
from
there
all
related
in
and
around
that
kind
of
big
box
area.
It's
reasonable
it
it's
scope
and
scale.
I
know
we're
trying
to
reduce
signage
on
the
merohay
corridor,
which
we're
doing
because
there's
no
pull
sign
related
to
this.
It's
relatively
innocuous.
For
what's
I
mean
it's
not
glaring,
we've
seen
some
that
are,
and
I'm
like
come
on,
but
yeah.
This
is
more
than
reasonable
to
me,
too.
G
D
A
F
A
And
number:
three:
okay
justin,
your
second
second,
the
motion:
yep.
Okay,
all
those
in
favor
of
granting
the
requested
zoning
exceptions.
Subject
to
the
conditions
presented,
raise
your
right
hand,
say:
aye.
Aye.
All
right
motion
carries
five
to
zero,
all
right,
yeah
and,
if
you
ever
do
want
to
get
in
the
scooter
business
just
make
sure
they
don't
lay
around
on
sidewalks.
A
Yeah
yeah
yeah,
you
got
a
filing
deadline
to
meet
okay,
so
I
believe,
that's
our
actual
agenda
items
for
today,
just
as
chair
just
a
couple
things:
let's
go
ahead
and
get
our
minutes
out
of
the
way
for
those
that
were
here
last
month
and
are
here
this
month.
If
you've
reviewed
the
minutes,
any
changes,
if
not,
would
there
be
a
motion
to
approve
marvelous
marvelous
motion,
second
by
rhonda,
all
those
in
favor
who
were
here
last
month?
A
So
from
time
to
time,
the
board
does
have
the
ability
to
request
that
the
city
council
consider
issues
that
we've
dealt
with,
sometimes
on
a
repeated
basis
where
we
may
be
able
to
suggest
that
city
staff
and
the
council
work
to
review
existing
ordinances.
Sometimes
it
can
be
for
clarity,
fairness
or
just
even
to
meet
the
intent
of
the
zoning
ordinance.
Some
things
seem
well
intended,
but
when
you
try
to
carry
them
out,
they
just
don't
work.
This
board
a
number
of
years
ago
did
ask
you,
know
the
board,
chair
myself.
A
A
A
I
think
he's
kind
of
reading
some
vibes
here
yeah.
You
know
it
could
be
a
discussion
of
us.
It
could
be
what
staff
is
thinking
on
their
own,
but
but
I'd
like
to
know
more
about,
if
there's
a
way
that
we
could
maybe
look
at
proposing
to
ease
a
few
of
these
categories
so
that
we
don't
keep
running
into
all
these
variances
tied
into,
especially
like
parks
and
stuff.
G
A
A
What
is
going
on
here?
So
usually
it's
been
a
couple
times
over
the
years,
but
it's
maybe
been
no
more
than
a
one-page
letter
to
ask
about
the
actual
topic.
I
don't
think
we
actually
got
into
direct
wording
but
more
in
intent,
and
I
think
when
we've
got
our
restaurants
and
our
grocery
uses,
where
less
than
40
percent
is
alcohol,
tobacco,
etc
for
sales.
I.
A
A
A
But
all
of
us
understand
our
intent,
sometimes
our
boundaries
and
then
the
challenges
that
that
can
present,
because
I
think,
in
the
end,
we're
all
trying
to
come
up
with
what
allows
businesses
to
be
successful
but
preserves
our
neighborhoods
and
our
character.
And
I
think
sometimes
we
get
squeezed
on
that.
M
A
G
A
Like
a
tavern
is
allowed
in,
let's
I'm
going
to
just
call
them
commercial
districts,
I'm
still
memorizing
these,
but
a
tavern
is
allowed
with
a
conditional
or
or
or
special
permit,
but
there's
still
room
for
us
to
review
that
oversight.
Yeah
yeah
yeah,
but
in
a
case
like
I
think
again
today,
their
228
east
army
post,
we
almost
get
kind
of
kind
of
hamstrung
on
well.
A
Let's
look
at
it
as
a
conditional
use.
It's
in
the
same
thing
for
both
of
those
restaurants.
We
had
I'd
like
to
have
that
oversight
if
they're
next
to
a
city
park,
but
I'd
like
to
have
us,
be
able
to
weigh
that
and
certainly
we're
all
citizens
of
des
moines
and
for
most
of
us
we've
either
been
to
these
locations.
We
live
there.
There
we
drive
by
there
so,
but
I
think
sometimes
we
aren't
allowed
to
take
those
into
account
because
we
get
boxed
in
but
burt.
K
Yeah,
so
it's
really
two
things
that
played
the
one:
the
board
could
send
a
letter
to
city
council
and
then
city
council
could
direct
staff
to
draft
an
amendment
for
their
consideration.
But
the
other
thing
at
play
is
that
city
staff
does
maintain
a
list
of
changes
that
we
believe
should
be
considered.
So
I
went
through
and
looked
at
our
list
like
up
on
the
screen.
Right
now
is
the
alcohol
table,
so
there's
three
things
on
our
list
that
staff
is
wanting
to
discuss.
K
That
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
staff
will
ultimately
propose
these
changes
or
that
city
council
will
agree
with
staff
and
amend
the
code.
But
the
three
things
that
we
currently
have
on
our
list
for
discussion
are,
as
mel
already
mentioned,
is
that
75
foot
separation,
distance
requirement
for
restaurants
really
needed
in
this
table
on
the
screen
at
first,
it's
kind
of
overwhelming.
Once
you
start
to
look
at
it,
it
starts
to
make
more
sense
so,
like
this
top
box
areas
about
for
the
retail
sales,
the
next
one
is
for
fuel
stations.
G
K
A
K
K
A
K
Yeah,
like
the
other
two
things
that
staff
has
on
our
running
list
and
we're
trying,
like
the
code,
took
effect
in
december
of
2019,
and
we
were
doing
amendments
every
two
or
three
months,
but
now
that
it's
two
years
old
we're
trying
to
just
do
like
one
big
set
of
amendments
each
year
right
so
hopefully
later
this
year.
I
guess
that's
probably
getting
late
this
year
early
next
year,
we're
planning.
D
E
K
A
K
So
there's
three
categories
of
retail
limited
is
12
000
square
feet
or
smaller.
Okay
general
is
between
twelve
thousand
and
forty
thousand
square
feet,
and
then
large
is
over
forty
thousand
square
feet
so
like
the
high
bees
would
fall
and
do
the
large,
like
the
walgreens
cvs
is
probably
gateway.
Market
would
probably.
A
O
A
G
K
Yeah,
the
other
two
are
very
minimal,
like
I'll,
just
go
through
them
quickly.
So
like
another,
one,
we've
noticed
that
in
fuel
stations,
there's
requirements
here
for
the
sale
of
alcohol
in
the
mx-1
district,
but
the
mx-1
district
doesn't
allow
fuel
stations.
So
anyway,
it's
kind
of
moved
to
have
that
there,
so
we
thought
that
could
be
removed
just
administratively.
The
other
one
that
was
kind
of
stood
out
to
us
is
in
the
rx1
rx2
district.
We
currently
allow
in
this
column
right
here.
You
can
see
the
limited.
K
E
A
K
A
Right,
right
and-
and
I
and
I
still
kind
of
understand
that
restriction
on
the
limited
sales
because,
just
like
you
said
it
gets
you
into
the
dicier
stuff
right.
If
you're
selling
a
hard
liquor,
you
usually
got
a
good
variety
of
it
and
that
can
easily
scope
creep
into
your
sails
but
again
to
take
home
a
six
pack
of
dos
equis
or
something
along
with
my
week's
groceries.
A
You
know
it's
it's
just
too
bad,
where
we
have
to
get
into
that,
but
kind
of
to
keep
this
moving
with
bert
summary.
Here
I
I
know,
staff
may
or
may
not
completely
through
your
zoning
administrator,
or
you
know,
department
director,
you
know,
have
full
positions
on
any
of
this
of
what
you
want
to
do,
but
if
we
even
put
together
an
advisory
letter
that
that
maybe
you
know
with
the
help
of
our
board
attorney,
we
could
craft
a
draft
of
it.
Would
that
be
something
if
we
brought
it
back
to
our
board?
A
A
Maybe
we
can
just
draft
the
staff
for
that.
I'm
not
trying
to
kick
up
a
hornet's
nest,
but
but
at
the
same
time,
if,
if
you're
already
going
to
be
looking
at
doing
some
of
this-
and
this
could
be
a
little
extra
oomph
or
support
almost
like
a
recommendation
letter
that
yeah
yeah,
I'm
not
sure
the
board
can
go
far
enough
to
like
you
know-
show
up
at
city
council
and
speak.
I
don't
think
that's
within
our
purview
yeah
to
be
able
to
do
that.