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From YouTube: Budget & Finance Committee 1-11-2022
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A
B
B
B
D
B
And
then
we'll,
then
we'll
go
to
public
comment.
Oh
absolutely,
so
we
have
today
means
anthony
missouri
from
the
spear
financial
and
the
sphere.
Financial
has
been
our
financial
advisor
for
last
couple
of
years.
I
think
maybe
this
is
the
third
year
before
that
we
had
a
pfm
financial
for
a
long
time,
but
anthony
has
been
a
great
help.
I
mean
they
manage
like
over
100
clients,
municipal
clients,
schools
and
others,
so
they
have
a
vast
experience.
You
know
in
this
so
anthony.
E
Yeah
absolutely
nice
to
see
everybody
this
evening
and
I'll.
Actually,
in
my
presentation
I
have
a
little
bit
of
a
about
spear
that
I'll
go
through
quickly.
Has
you
know
some
of
our
what
we
do
for
the
city,
some
of
our
experience
and
references
things
like
that,
so
look
forward
to
talking
with
everybody
tonight.
A
Thank
you
anthony
welcome.
I
don't
know
if
there
was
an
online
signup
for
public
comment
jessica
if
you've
seen
something,
let
me
know
otherwise
we
will
just
kind
of
throw
it
open
here
and
it
looks
like
tricia,
connelly
and
and
bill
smith
are
the
only
non-committee
members
on
the
zoom
right
now
so
trisha?
Do
you
wish
to
speak
at
public
comment.
C
A
A
A
B
D
B
A
The
committee
members
are
obviously
new
to
this
newly
appointed
committee
so
that
she
hopes
that
we
will
take
advantage
of
this
opportunity
to
inform
ourselves
about
the
bond
process.
Allow.
This
gives
us
an
opportunity
to
get
into
some
more
detail
about
the
the
background
and
the
people
and
in
the
process
for
our
city's
bond
process
and
so
as
an
educational
opportunity.
A
I
think
next
month
we'll
be
taking
a
deep
dive
into
the
city's
pensions
and
then,
in
march,
we'll
be
taking
a
deeper
dive
into
the
the
capital
improvement
process.
So
you
know
tonight
on
the
agenda,
is:
is
bonding
and
anthony
I'll
turn
it
over
to
you?
Would
you
prefer
to
run
through
the
presentation
yourself
and
then
do
questions
afterwards?
Or
can
we
interrupt
you
if
we?
If
we
have
questions,
please.
A
A
B
A
G
I
was
just
going
to
say
going
forward
and
it's
up
to
each
chair,
obviously,
but
I
would
like
to
encourage
a
more
collaborative
process
for
agendas.
Obviously,
agenda
totally
gears
where
we're
going
and
what
we're
able
to
do
on
a
committee.
And
of
course
you
know
it's
melissa's
prerogative,
but
I
would
like
to
see
going
forward
collaboration
deciding
on
what
our
agendas
will
be
and,
of
course
it's
up
to
her.
But
because
that
determines
what
this
committee
will
be
doing
and
and
how
we
will
be
impacting
our
our.
F
A
A
D
Yeah,
I
just
have
a
question
since,
with
the
open
meetings
act,
only
a
cut
two
of
us
can
meet,
so
are
we
gonna
have
subcommittees
like?
Are
we
gonna,
maybe
have
two
of
us
will
dive
deeper
into
the
pension?
Two
of
us
will
deep
into
the
budget,
but
you
know
that
way
we
can
have
more
of
a
working
sessions
as
opposed
to
just
informational
is
not
three
can.
A
G
Oh
sure
I
agree
sherry.
I
think
we
should
absolutely
move
forward
on
that
and
have
a
couple
people
working
on
pension,
a
couple
of
people
working
on
bonds.
I
absolutely,
I
think
we
need
to
make
more
headway
with
this
committee.
This
committee
was
obviously
formed
because
of
issues
with
our
our
budgeting
in
evanston.
So
if
we
can,
maybe
we
can
call
a
special
finance
and
budget
committee
meeting
just
to
focus
on
creating
those
committees.
A
Right,
I
do
think
that
we'll
be
something
like
that
will
be
helpful
moving
forward.
You
know
for
those
committee
members
not
on
council,
you
guys
are
here,
because
you
have
financial
expertise
and
by
going
through
this
program
for
the
next
few
months,
you
know
you'll
be
brought
up
to
speed
along
with
the
council
members.
With
the
you
know,
particularities
of
municipal
finance,
which
I
I'm
not
sure.
A
If
what
your
level
of
expertise
is,
maybe
you
maybe
you
could
lead
that,
maybe
maybe
you
could
leave
the
lecture
yourself,
I'm
not
sure,
but
I
do
think
the
more
we
all
know
about
the
process,
the
better
informed
we
will
be
to
make
decisions
moving
forward.
So
you
know
I
hear
what
council
member
kelly
is
saying
about.
C
A
E
E
G
B
E
Okay,
great,
let
me
see
if
I
can
figure
out
how
to
do
this.
You
have
to
excuse
me,
I'm
my
windows,
meeting
skills
aren't
as
good
as
my
there.
We
go.
Okay,
sorry
about
that.
So
when
I
talked
to
hitach
about
the
agenda
for
tonight,
the
thought
was
just
to
give
really
an
overview
of
of
who
we
are
at
spear
financial.
What
we
do
for
the
city,
what
the
process
is
for
a
municipal
bond
issue
and
then
do
a
dive
into
what
a
municipal
bond
issue
is
what
the
anatomy
of
it
is.
E
E
We've
served
illinois
municipalities
for
over
five
decades
and
we
have
offices
in
chicago
illinois
as
well
as
waterloo
iowa.
We
have
a
satellite
office
in
waterloo,
iowa,
I'm
based
out
of
the
the
chicago
office,
which
is
the
the
larger
of
the
two
offices
for
our
firm
in
total,
we're
a
relatively
small,
firm,
nine
registered
municipal
advisors,
including
myself,
and
then
seven
support
staff
and
again
we
only
serve
as
a
municipal
advisor.
So
we're
not
an
investment
advisor,
a
broker
dealer.
B
We
did
the
rfp
process
as
we
do
with
these
things.
You
know,
and
obviously
I
mean
we
have
to
look
at
the
experience
and
then
most
of
them
yeah
we're
qualified.
You
know
the
responses
which
we
got
and
then
it
came
down
to
the
like.
We
looked
at
the
I
mean
spear,
particularly
they
were
doing
a
lot
of
comparable
terms.
You
would
see
here,
you
know,
and
I
even
checked
out
some
of
the
references
I
mean
maddie
lyons
was
one
of
them
and
the
others.
You
know
right
there,
you
arlington
heights,
buffalo
grove.
B
B
B
E
E
E
So
in
terms
of
what
our
services
are
to
the
city,
it
really
it
it
starts
with
the
the
planning
and
implementation
of
a
bond
issue.
So
hitesh
will
reach
out
to
me
when
either
there's
you
know,
thinking
of
a
borrowing
in
the
future
or
simply
needing
a
debt
service
schedule
to
see
what
a
certain
borrowing
may
look
like.
E
We
help
with
in-between
bond
issues,
analyzing
refinancing
opportunities
to
see
if
there's
any
availability,
to
save
money
from
refunding
an
existing
bond
issue
and
then
really
everything
in
between.
Whenever
there's
a
a
question
regarding
a
bond
issue,
it
usually
goes
to
spear
and
then
spear
figures
out.
If
it's
you
know,
if
it's
a
question,
we
answer
or
you
know,
do
we
do.
We
need
to
kind
of
find
that
answer
whether
it
be
from
the
attorney
on
the
issue
or
somebody
else,
once
an
issue
gets
started.
E
Spear
financial
prepares,
the
offering
document
and
we're
going
to
go
through
this.
All
of
this
in
a
lot
more
detail
as
we
talk
about
the
the
anatomy
of
a
bond
issue,
so
so
we
prepared
the
offering
document
for
the
city.
It's
the
city's
document,
but
it's
drafted
and
put
together
by
spear,
prepare
detailed
timeline.
Distribution
list,
make
sure
everybody's
on
track
and
engaged
keep
the
the
issue
on
schedule.
E
We
coordinate
the
rating
agency
process
so
for
for
every
issue
the
city
is
getting
bond.
Ratings,
coordinate
that
process
set
up
the
calls
get
the
information
to
the
rating
agency
facilitate
in
getting
that
rating,
and
then
we
facilitate
the
bond
sale
process.
So
that's
whether
it
be
competitive
bond
sales.
E
Two
to
three
weeks
later,
we
facilitate
the
closing
process.
Get
a
closing
letter
out
to
the
group
make
sure
funds
are
transferred
into
the
city's
account
once
funds
are
verified,
we
close
on
the
bonds.
So
it's
a
it's.
You
know
comprehensive
process
for
the
bond
issue
and
then
everything
in
between
when
bonds
aren't
issued
we're
always
available
for
the
city.
E
So,
just
in
terms
of
of
you
know
your
typical
bond
issue
and
and
the
timetable
here,
I
know
it's
a
little
bit
blurry
because
of
the
way
I
had
put
it
in
there,
but
the
timetable
here
is
from
the
the
city's
2021
issue.
So
you
can
get
a
basic
sense
of
what
happens
during
a
bond
issue
so
step
one.
It
would
really
be
the
planning
phase.
You
know
when
this
may
take
months.
It
may
take
a
day
it
really.
E
Sure
so,
and
when
I
say
project
it
could
be
the
array
of
projects
related
to
a
capital
improvement
program.
It
isn't
always
your
right.
It
isn't
always
one
specific
project:
you're,
not
just
borrowing
to
resurface.
One
street
you're
doing
street
work,
sidewalk
work,
maybe
water
work,
so
it's
the
project
in
whole
and
really
what
that
means
is
it's
a
discussion
of
how
much
the
funding
need
is
how
much
you
wanted
to
borrow
and
then
talking
about
the
repayment
terms.
E
E
F
B
B
We
want
to
do
that
and,
let's
close
it
in
the
first
week
of
september,
we
have
a
budgeted
like.
So
we
had
a
good
discussion,
I
think,
about
the
cip
projects
and
which
ones
which
projects
need
to
be
bonded
or
not,
and
even
we
had
a
brief
discussion
last
night
at
the
council
and
so
finally,
back
and
forth,
we
had
the
experience
when
we
passed
the
2022
by
the
we
means
the
city
council
so
yeah
they
might
say
nope.
We
don't
like
this
project,
like
staff,
would
recommend,
say:
yeah.
B
We
want
to
issue
15
million
dollar
bonds
and
we
would
have
the
listing,
and
so
obviously
there
will
be
a
discussion
with
the
city
council
for
a
couple
of
times
more
than
that,
and
they
would
just
say,
okay,
why
you
need
to
bond.
Do
we
need
to
do
so?
First?
They
look
at
each
kind
of
a
merits
of
each
project
and
then
the
amount
comes
in
okay.
Do
we
need
okay?
We
need
street
work,
but
do
we
need
half
a
million
million
have
one
million,
and
that's
where
our
public
works.
B
B
That
gives
me
the
amount
you
know
and
then
again
before
I
reach
out
to
anthony,
I
would
have
a
couple
of
meetings
with
lara
they're,
okay,
lara
this
is
adopted.
Is
there
any
material
change
or
not?
And
then
finally,
what
we
call?
We
present
the
parameters
ordinance
and
I
would
I
think,
wait
until
anthony
said,
but
I
think
david-
that's.
The
kind
of
yeah
number
comes
out
of
that
previous
year's
budget
process.
A
J
E
Yeah-
and
I
I
don't
know
that
I
can
speak
specific
specifically
to
that
project,
but
I
can
talk
a
little
bit
about
501c3
bonds,
where
this
city
has
the
ability
to
issue
bonds
on
behalf
of
a
501c3,
and
I
know
hitach.
This
had
come
up
with
with
another
borrower
that
that
wanted
to
to
do
something
like
this.
You
know
these
take
a
lot
of
different
forms.
I
think
in
its
most
basic
form,
what
you're
doing
is
really
just
giving
them.
E
They
provide
the
lender,
they're
the
credit
you're,
not
putting
your
credit
on
it,
you're,
not
putting
your
revenue
streams
or
your
general
obligation,
but
you're
putting
city
of
evanson's
name
on
it.
It
gets
sold
tax
exempt,
but
the
security
is
a
501c3
a
lot
of
times.
They'll
have
to
arrange
their
own
financing.
It's
really
just
the
pass-through.
B
So
leslie,
what
are
you
talking
about?
I
guess,
if
I
understood
correctly,
what
we
have
done
city.
Are
you
talking
more
like
what
we
call
a
conduit
that
we
have
done
two
for
royce,
more
and
caravalli,
where
they're
credited
at
stake?
We
just
give
our
city
of
evanston
name,
but
the
rates,
and
all
that
is
determined
based
on
the
financial
capacities
of.
J
B
Right
right
crown
was
financed
based
on
the
bond
council
from
chapman
and
the
couple
of
things
in
the
picture.
We
had
internal
lieu
of
the
donation.
I
think
we
had
given
this
what
we
call
us
ice
time
in
return
and
that's
where
the
bond
council
advises
us
to
go
to
501c
route
and
do
that
special
hearing.
You
know
tephra
hearing
which.
B
I
think
some
of
them
we
had
the
thing
that
okay,
we
will,
I
think,
northwestern,
I
think,
erica
at
that
time
worked
with
those
organizations
who
said
okay,
we'll
give
this
money.
I
think
winters,
bank
or
some
of
the
others,
and
they
gave
the
money
in
return.
They
were
like
kind
of
a
contractually
given
some
ice
time.
That's
what
I.
G
May
I
just
for
a
moment,
so
I
this
is
very
important.
I
mean
we
understand
perfectly
how
like,
with
with
the
montessori
school
and
others,
that
we
issue
501c3
bonds,
because
you
have
an
entity,
a
tax-exempt
entity
or
non-profit
in
your
town,
that
you
want
to
support.
So
the
city
issues.
These
that's
and
we
understand
that
the
question
is
robert
crown
center
is
a
public
entity
and
it
appears
that.
Are
you
saying
that
we
issued
the
the
40
plus
million,
went
to
friends
of
robert
crown
because
that's
the
501.
B
B
He
had
to
do
the
501c3
mechanism,
not
there
was
not
other
entity
involved,
but
because
of
some
of
the
contracts,
when
we
got
some
donations
and
I
think
anthony
you
can
just
chime
in
on
the
technical
side
of
not
because
you
don't
know
the
exact
issue,
but
just
because
we
have
some
contracts
with
some
of
those
people.
The
institutions
who
kind
of
committed
to
give
the
donations
to
the
city
for
this
purpose.
In
return,
they
were
getting
ice
time.
E
So
it
let
me
jump
in
from
what
I'm
understanding
from
this
so
and
that
that
can
be
a
regular
general
obligation.
But
what
I
think
hitech
is
saying
is
that
there
was
some
private
activity
use
in
there
and
and
when
you
have
so
when
you
issue
a
general
obligation
bond,
if
it's
tax
exempt,
you
know
it's
got
to
be
for
a
public
purpose.
That's
that's
what
you're
issuing
these
bonds!
For
that
said,
you
can
issue
taxable
bonds
if
it's
for
a
certain
private
activity
or
something
that
can't
be
tax
exempt.
Some
other
related.
J
B
E
B
E
In
this
case
the
city
did
issue
bonds
and
because
of
bond
council
determined
that,
because
of
it,
sounds
like
the
way
certain
funds
were
coming
in
source
of
funds
to
repay
the
bonds
or
and
or
use
of
those
funds,
be
private
activity
in
some
way
that
you
had
to
do
this
tougher
hearing
and
that's
where
the
501c3
came
in,
because
you're
using
bonds
for
private
activity,
but
that
private
activity
was
a
was
a
not-for-profit
so
to
speak.
So
it
was
a
traditional
bond.
I
I
didn't
have
any
questions,
but
I
did
just
want
to
say
to
david,
and
especially
our
resident
committee
members,
that
I
like
that
question
and
that's
really
what
in
my
mind,
I
would
love
to
hear
after
we're
done
with
this
process
from
david
and
again,
some
of
our
resident
committee
members
is:
how
should
we
be
what
should
be
driving
these
decisions
about
how
how
much
we
bond
out
and
when?
Because
I
I
don't
feel
comfortable
as
a
new
council
member
with
our,
I
don't
know
what
our
approach
is.
I
I
don't
know
how
we,
you
know,
make
those
decisions
in
a
way:
that's
that's
that's
best
for
the
community
and
that's
fiscally
responsible.
Obviously,
councilmember
kelly
has
a
really
strong
opinions
on
this
issue
and
we
we
talk
often,
but
that
is
a
question
I'd
love
to
to
get
answered
through
this
process.
Thank
you.
A
E
Okay,
I'll
jump
back
in
so
again
we
prepare
the
offering
document
after
we
get
some
idea
of
the
project,
the
sizing
that
the
city
wants,
the
structure
of
the
bonds,
which
we
work
with
attach
on
the
the
offering
document
that
that
we
prepare
includes
all
of
that
information.
That's
then
sent
out
to
the
working
group.
During
that
time,
your
bond
council's
preparing
was
called
a
bond
ordinance.
E
So
with
the
city,
you
do
two
readings
first
reading
and
a
second
reading
and
adoption,
because
you're
a
home
rule
unit
of
government
in
illinois,
you
do
not
have
to
go
to
referendum
to
issue
general
obligation
bonds.
You
don't
have
to
do
any
other
authorizing
steps
other
than
an
approval
of
a
bond
ordinance.
A
G
G
E
D
E
Yeah
in
in
the
beginning
of
the
process,
we
prepare
a
preliminary
debt
service
schedule.
So
we
we
look
at
you
know
what
that
amount
looks
like
we
amortized
over
the
life
of
the
loan.
At
estimated
interest
rates,
we
keep
potesh
updated,
as
is
interest
rates,
are
changing.
You
know
for
bad
or
good.
Usually
you
because
this
process
takes
a
little
while
we
we
add
some
in
the
in
the
front
end
when
we're
estimating
what
rates
are
and
then
you
know
hope
to
hope
to
beat
it
as
as
the
sale
comes.
G
And
sherry,
I
just
you
know
I
I
support
home
rule.
I
want
to
make
that
very
perfectly
clear,
but
I
think
it
is
important
to
know
that
there
are
cities
in
illinois
like
rockford,
whose
you
know
taxes
had
escalated,
so
much
that
they
ended
up
with
a
red,
frenum
and
voted
to
do
away
with
home
rule,
to
get
the
spending
under
control
and
then
a
future
subsequent
mayor.
G
A
E
And
then
the
final
term
of
the
issue
are
our
typical
parameters.
We'll
also
you'll
put
a
max
levy
amount
in
there
and
what
that
does
is
since
that's
the
only
action
that
city
council
is
taking.
It
sets
out
the
limits
for
where
we
can
borrow
these
bonds,
so
you're
you're,
giving
us
the
directive
to
borrow
a
certain
amount
of
money
to
fund
certain
projects
and
then
setting
out
limits
for
how
much
could
be
borrowed,
how
long
the
loan
could
be
and
and
the
approximate
annual
debt
service
that
you
don't
want
to
exceed
on
that
loan.
E
Those
parameters
ordinance
typically
have
a
window
for
for
timing.
They
don't
last
forever
they'll,
typically
last
at
the
most
six
months.
So
if
we
don't
issue
within
the
six
months,
we'd
have
to
come
back
to
city
council
and
ask
again
to
approve
an
ordinance
to
go
forward
with
the
sale
of
the
bonds.
E
E
We
then
post
the
official
statement
after
the
bond
ratings
are
received
and
all
comments
have
been
received.
We
post
the
official
statement
to
the
market
and
we
set
up
the
competitive
sale.
We
typically
do
that
approximately
two
weeks
before
the
actual
sale
happens
so
on
the
day
of
sale.
It's
a
set
time
and
set
date
that
we
take
bids
on
a
competitive
sale.
E
So,
on
the
day
of
sale
on
the
day
of
competitive
sale,
the
bond
sizing
and
the
bond
rate
is
locked
in
once
we
get
the
final
rates.
We
resize
the
bonds
to
accomplish
the
goals
of
the
city,
which
is
how
much
you
wanted
to
bond
for
in
project
amount
or
if
it's
a
refunding
the
exact
amount
we
need
to
put
in
the
escrow.
E
So
the
the
transaction
participants
and
I
put
the
the
names
of
the
firms
that
the
city
has
used
on
this
page
you'll
have
a
bond
council
they'll,
give
you
the
tax
opinion
on
the
bonds.
Tell
you
that
the
projects
that
you're
borrowing
can
be
done
tax
exempt.
They
look
at
the
security
of
the
bonds
and
and
provide
an
opinion
at
the
end
of
at
the
end
of
the
sale.
E
Chapman
and
cutler
has
been
used
as
the
city's
bond
council,
again:
municipal
advisors,
spear,
financial
and
sycamore
advisors.
We
have
gone
through
our
role,
paying
agent
and
bond
registrar.
This
is
the
bank
that
invoices
the
city
and
then
takes
the
money
for
the
debt
service
and
and
gets
that
to
the
investors
so
they're.
B
You
know
in
terms
of
city
finances
and
kind
of
there
even
assigned
a
negative
outlook
before
we
drop
them
and
finally,
working
with
anthony,
we
decided
to
go
with
the
snp,
so
what
we
did
is-
and
he
and
I
asked
him
that,
okay,
how
about
you,
some
of
the
other
cities
like
nepal,
wheel
or
shampoo?
They
use
and
they
said
nope.
They
use
only
one
and
most
of
them
use
the
snp.
J
E
That
is
part
of
the
bid.
So
we
we
know
their
fee
and
I'll
show
you
how
that
works,
and
the
sources
of
use
is
a
fun
schedule.
But
it's
it's
part
of
the
bid
that
we
consider
when
we're
ranking
all
of
the
different
underwriters
and
what
their,
what
their
bid
is.
We
we
rank
it
based
on
the
lowest
true
interest
cost,
which
takes
into
account
the
interest
rates
they're,
applying
to
the
bonds
and
their
fee
for
for
bond
council
and
the
municipal
advisors.
E
We
are
paid
on
a
transaction
basis,
so
it's
it's
based
on
when
you
issue
and
and
the
amount
you
issue,
typically
paying
agents
bill,
a
very
small
amount
on
on
each
transaction
for
setup
fees.
I
think
it's
usually
less
than
a
thousand
dollars,
and
then
they
pay
you
pay
them
annually
per
bond
issue
to
to
invoice
you
and
then
send
the
money
to
to
the
investors.
Essentially,
rating
agencies
are
also
paid
on
a
transaction
basis
based
on
the
size
of
the
issue.
E
Rating
agencies
are
paid
at
closing.
Like
everybody
else,
however,
the
rating
is,
is
the
one
fee
that
if
you
were
to
start
a
deal
and
get
a
rating
and
then
stop
a
deal
and
it
not
go
through
the
rating
is
really
the
one
fee
in
a
transaction
that
you,
you
still
have
to
pay
everybody
else
you
know
involved.
If
the
deal
doesn't
happen,
then
there
is
no
there's
no
invoice
at
the
end
of
it.
E
E
F
E
Going
to
happen,
obviously
things
do
happen
and
we've
had.
You
know:
market
movements
on
a
refunding,
for
instance,
where
the
the
deal
didn't
make
sense
anymore,
but
the
the
rating
is
good
for
six
months,
so
you
you
usually
find
a
way
to
get
back
into
the
market
to
get
it
to
happen
and
then
pay
their
fee.
At
that
point,.
A
E
E
Thanks
absolutely
so
again
an
official
statement.
This
is
a
this
is
the
city's
offering
document.
So
it's
the
city's
document
to
investors.
We
at
spear
financial
aid,
the
city
in
preparing
it,
but
it
is
the
city's
document.
What
this
does
is.
It
goes
to
underwriters
and
investors
as
they're
evaluating
whether
or
not
they
want
to
invest
in
the
city's
bonds.
So
it.
E
E
E
We
we
just
stuck
with
s
p
for
the
for
the
public
bond
issuance
the
city's.
At
current
s,
p
rating
is
double
a
stable
outlook,
so
you're
essentially
two
notches
away
from
the
highest
rating,
which
is
aaa
it
would
go
double
a
double
a
plus
and
then
triple
a
when
a
rating
agency
is
is
looking
through
the
city's
financial
profile.
E
Then
they
look
at
the
finances.
So,
that's
you
know:
how
have
you
budgeted
you
know?
Has
it
been
annual
surpluses
break?
Even
what
are
your
fund
balance
levels
that
that
plays
a
very
crucial
part
in
a
in
a
rating,
and
then
it's
debt
and
pensions
and
finally,
city
management?
What
types
of
policies
and
procedures
do
you
have
in
place?
How
often
are
things
shared
with
the
board?
Does
the
board
see
investment
and-
and
you
know,
year-to-date
numbers
on
a
monthly
basis
on
a
quarterly
basis?
Things
like
that.
A
E
Average,
no
double
a
ratings
is
a
high
rating.
Obviously
you
know
aaa
is,
is
the
best
double
a
plus
is
between
you
and
and
the
top
wits?
It's
it's
interesting.
I
would
say
you're
you're
you're,
on
the
good
side
of
of
average.
Double
a
rating
for
municipalities
is
actually
the
the
most
common
and
there's
a
reason
for
that.
Municipal
bonds
don't
default,
often
and
and
they're
generally
good
credits.
A
E
Yeah
well
I'll
tell
you
what
that
could
be
a
kind
of
a
discussion
all
on
its
own.
What
I
would
say
is
we
could
you
know?
One
thing
we
could
do
is
look
through
the
actual
rating
reports.
They
they
put
a
good
my
light.
Just
turned
off
there
we
go,
they
do
include
you
know,
rating
ailments
don't
give
recommendations,
but
they
do
give
a
lot
of
detail
on
why
they
signed
the
rating
they
did.
E
Certain
things
are
out
of
your
control,
such
as
resident
income
levels
and
and
wealth
and
tax
base,
and
a
lot
of
those
things
go
into.
You
know
when
you
see
aaa
rated
communities
the
reason
that
they're
triple
a
one
of
the
reasons
is
they
just
have
you
know
astronomical
socioeconomic
information
and
data.
So
those
things
you
can't
necessarily
help
finances
play
an
important
role.
So
you
know,
building
reserves
and
and
fund
balance
is,
is
an
important
metric,
but
that
has
to
be
weighted
by
e.
E
You
know
there
may
be
city
projects
that
need
to
be
done
and
building
reserves,
but
still
doing
projects
means
borrowing
more
so
that'll
wait.
You
know,
borrowing
too
much,
then
is.
Is
a
negative
on
your
on
your
credit
rating?
So
it's
it's,
it's
a
balancing
act
and
then
with
management.
You
know
it's
not
a
huge
portion
of
the
rating,
but
it
is
looked
at
and
and
having
things
like
formal
financial
policies
and
debt,
debt
management
policies,
investment
management
policies,
things
like
that,
they're
they're.
They
go
towards
assigning
you
a
higher
management
score.
E
G
B
E
So
you
know
it's
really
the
things
you're
doing
right
now
are
those
things
you're
you're
putting
in
place.
You
know
good
management
practices
by
understanding
what
you're,
borrowing
for?
Why
or
not
you
know
what
not
to
do
what
what
you
don't
need
to
borrow
for
what
you
can
use
the
reserves
for
an
understanding
of
why
you
have
reserves,
what
adequate
funding
levels
are
in
reserves.
Those
are
the
things
you
need
to
do.
You
know
you
don't
necessarily
need
to
live
and
die
about
what
that
rating
says.
A
E
E
That
said
where
you
would
get
in
trouble
with
having
too
much
debt
is.
If
then,
the
other
factors
aren't
balanced.
So
if
you
have,
if
you
have
an
astronomical
amount
of
debt
with
very
little
reserves,
you
could
see
where
that
that
you're
starting
to
have
the
imbalance
there,
but
it
is
generally,
if
you
look
through
the
the
rating
score
card
for
these,
and
you
look.
D
A
E
E
E
I
I
guess
what
I
would
suggest.
I
think
credit
rating
and
the
factors
that
go
into
credit
rating
can
really
be
its
own
discussion
all
together
and
what
I
mean
by
that
is,
and
I've
done
it
with
hitach.
When
we
decided
to
go
with
s
p
is
we
could
do
a
deep
dive
into
all
of
the
factors
that
they
look
at?
How
you
compare
versus
other
municipalities
in
the
area
and
how
you
compare
versus
s,
p,
medians
and.
B
B
B
I
And
chair,
I
just
wanted
to
say
I
don't
want
to
deny
a
q
a
period
but
contestant
anthony.
If
you
can
help
flag
moments
when
questions
could
be
addressed
at
a
later
discussion,
I
would
certainly
appreciate
it.
I
have
to
cut
out
at
eight-
and
I
want
to
at
least
try
to
get
through
this
presentation
if
we
can
so
again,
I'm
not
trying
to
deny
anybody.
This
is
important
and
ask
your
questions,
but.
B
I
Again,
I
know
if
you
have
a
question
asked:
I
just
want
concession
and
just
flag
certain
things
right
off
the
bat
that
we
can.
You
know
cover
in
a
future
discussion,
because
this
is
obviously
a
very
technical
discussion
and
we
could
go
into
wormholes
on
any
on
any
one
parts
of
this.
You
know
what
I
mean,
so,
let's
just
you
know
if
you
have
a
question
asked,
but
if
there's
a
way
to
to
just
use
this
as
a
as
a
way
to
identify
good
future
conversations,
I'd
like
to
do
that.
Thank
you.
E
Thank
you
to
the
point
I
think
you
know
I
I
prepared
kind
of
for
this
general
discussion,
but
I
think
drilling
down
on
on
the
factors
that
the
rating
agency
use
when
they
assess
your
credit
rating
and
understanding
how
you
compare
I
can.
You
know,
really
build
that
out
to
make
it
it's
its
own
kind
of
meaningful
discussion
without
you
know
now
I
don't
have
the
information
in
front
of
me,
but
I
could
get
it.
F
E
Yeah
it
at
times
like
these
when
credit
when
interest
rates
are
very
low.
It's
not
a
huge
change.
So
if
you
were
double
a
plus
you'd
be
talking
somewhere
in
the
range
of
you
know,
over
20
year
period,
a
a
five
to
ten
basis
point
a
better
interest
rate
versus
your
double
a
and
probably
closer
to
that
five.
If
you're
you're
talking
double
a
to
triple
a
so
a
two
notch
increase,
you
know,
maybe
that's
closer
to
15
to
20
basis
points
better.
E
All
right,
let's
keep
cruising
okay,
sounds
good,
so
the
rating
agency
process
just
really
quickly
to
touch
on
that.
What
happens
there?
Is
we
send
information
to
the
rating
agency,
including
the
official
statement,
this
city's
budget,
the
city's
audited
financial
statements,
any
interim
information
that
the
city
has.
E
We
generally
prepare
a
presentation
and
then
we
will
meet
with
the
rating
analysts
or
rating
analysts,
and
this
is
where
kind
of
hitesh
takes
over
and
does
a
full
presentation
covering
these
four
credit
factors
covering
the
questions
that
they
send
us
ahead
of
time
once
they
do
that,
we
we
have
that
meeting.
There
may
be
some
interim
questions
that
happen
over
the
next
week
and
then
they
meet
with
a
rating
committee
and
a
committee
of
senior
analysts
then
reviews
the
information
and
provides
your
credit
rating.
E
So
that's
the
typical
process
for
assigning
a
rating
for
the
city's
transactions.
Oops.
Sorry
moving
to
a
bond
sale
that,
as
I
mentioned,
the
city
has
typically
used
competitive
bond
sales
and
what
that
means
is
on
the
day
of
sale.
So
we
we
prepare
the
official
statement.
We
get
the
credit
rating.
We
send
the
information
out
to
the
market
and
on
the
day
of
sale,
underwriters
will
then
bid
to
purchase
the
bonds
and
then
resell
them
to
investors.
E
I've
got
here
a
screenshot
from
the
auction
for
the
2021
issuance
that
was
purchased
by
northland
securities
and
again
you're
you're,
ranking
these
based
on
tick,
which
is
true
interest
cost.
So
it's
a
it's
an
average
of
the
the
interest
rates
that
are
assigned
on
the
bonds,
as
well
as
the
underwriting
fee.
That's
provided
by
the
underwriter.
E
In
this
case,
we
use,
what's
called
an
open
auction
process
where
the
underwriter
is
able
to
re-bid
in
the
bidding
window
and
better
their
bid
to
try
to
win
the
bonds.
So
if
they
put
in
a
bid
and
they
find
out
their
fourth
place
or
third
place,
they
know
their
place.
They
don't
know
how
much
they're
out
of
the
lead.
So
they
can
then
rebid
in.
In
the
case
of
your
21
bonds,
northland
securities
bid
a
total
of
six
times.
E
They
improved
their
bid
from
their
first
bid
to
their
final
bid
by
just
over
40
basis
points
and
the
final
true
interest
cost
in
the
bonds
was
a
1.6148
percent
beating
out
robert
baird
by
just
one
basis
point,
so
they
were
1.62
percent
and
they
bid
once
to
try
to
buy
the
bonds.
So
in
total
you
had
four
firms
that
bid
a
total
of
13
times
to
try
to
to
try
to
win
this.
This
issuance.
E
E
So
then,
moving
on
to
the
anatomy
of
a
bond
issue
and
I'm
using
the
the
2021
bonds
as
an
example
here
and
I'll
go
a
little
bit
more
into
detail
on
those
bonds
specifically.
But
what
I
wanted
to
do
is
just
you
know,
as
you're
getting
numbers
from
us
you're
getting
par
amount,
reoffering
premium
sources
and
uses
other
things
just
briefly
walk
through
those,
so
you
know
what
those
things
mean
and
how
they
interplay
with
each
other.
E
E
In
this
case,
the
par
amount
of
the
2021
bonds
was
14
million,
420
000,
and
then
you
have
your
reoffering
premium
and
I'll
explain
a
little
bit
more
about
that
in
the
next
slide,
but
essentially
tax-exempt
municipal
bonds
are
most
often
purchased
at
a
premium,
so
the
investor
pays
you
more
than
the
stated
value
of
the
bonds.
So
in
this
case
for
your
fourteen
million
four
hundred
twenty
thousand
dollars
in
bonds,
you
were
paid
a
premium
of
one
million
three
hundred
thirty
eight
thousand
dollars
because
of
the
refunding
component.
E
So
we
go
into
the
uses
of
funds.
So
this
is
where
that
money
then
goes
where
that
15.86
million
goes
the
first
line
item
there
is
your
underwriter's
discounts
and
again
this
was
included
in
the
bid.
So
it's
an
amount
that
we
don't
know
until
the
bonds
are
bid
and
we
award
the
bonds
based
on
the
total,
lowest
true
interest
cost,
which
incorporates
this
number.
In
this
case
they
were
just
under
one
percent,
0.924
percent
or
133
240..
E
E
We
then
have
a
deposit
to
the
project
construction
fund,
so
this
is
the
the
new
money
portion
of
the
bonds.
This
is
the
amount
of
money
that
will
be
transferred
to
the
city
and
used
for
projects.
In
this
case
it
was
eight
million
eight
hundred
and
four
thousand
dollars
deposit
to
the
current
refunding
fund.
This
is
the
amount
that's
transferred
into
escrow
to
redeem
the
refunded
bonds
and
pay
them
off.
E
This
was
six
million
eight
hundred
and
fifty
eight
thousand,
and
that
includes
that
one
hundred
000
that
came
from
the
city
and
then
finally,
you
have
a
rounding
amount
of
976
dollars
on
this
issue.
The
rounding
amount
you're
always
gonna,
have
a
rounding
amount
on
an
issue
because
municipal
bonds
are
sold
in
blocks
of
five
thousand
dollars.
So
you
can't
issue
right
to
the
penny
when
you
have
to
issue
them
in
five
thousand
dollar
block,
so
you
have
a
rounding
amount
somewhere
less
than
five
thousand
dollars
on
every
issue.
E
E
What
happens
is
going
into
the
sale?
I
know
the
uses
of
funds,
I
I
know.
Well,
I
don't
know
the
underwriter's
account,
but
I
know
the
cost
of
issuance.
I
know
the
amount
the
city
needs.
I
know
the
amount
I
need
for
escrow
and
I
have
those
as
constants,
then
I
get
bid
a
set
of
interest
rates
which
include
a
fee
and
premium
and
discounts,
and
I
use
that
information
to
resize
the
issuance
so
that
I
keep
that
rounding
amount
below
five
thousand
dollars.
E
So
that's
why
this
when,
when
hitesh
calls
me-
and
we
talk
about
a
size
of
an
issue,
he
doesn't
tell
me
the
exact
paramount
of
the
bonds
he
wants
to
issue.
He
tells
me
the
amount
he
needs
for
his
project
and
then
based
on
the
bids.
We
issue
bonds
only
to
provide
that
amount
and-
and
that's
important
when
you
take
into
account
this
this
re-offering
premium,
because
you're
getting
an
extra
1.3,
almost
1.4
million
dollars
for
the
sale
of
your
14.4
million
dollars
of
bonds.
E
I'll
go
into
that
as
well,
so
for
for
the
repayment
of
the
issue,
yeah,
let
me
let
me
touch
on
the
pricing
summary.
The
next
page
is
the
debt
service
schedule
so
with
with
the
premium
on
the
bonds.
The
way
that
this
is
calculated.
If
you
look
at
this
page,
remember
what
you're
selling
isn't
a
loan
you're,
not
selling
a
loan
at
a
fixed
interest
rate
like
I'm,
like
a
mortgage
you're
selling
a
series
of
bonds
that
mature
in
every
year
and
those
bonds
are
priced
at
different
levels.
E
G
E
E
E
If
this
was
a
par
bond,
for
instance,
if
we
had
a
1.1
percent
coupon
at
a
1.1
percent
yield,
then
that
maturity
value
would
have
to
be
1.267
million,
not
945
000.,
so
we'd
have
to
increase
the
size
of
the
bonds
because
we're
not
getting
the
premium
so
so
to
the
city.
What
you
want
to
do
is
you
want
to
focus
on
this
yield
column,
because
that's
the
yield
to
the
investor
and
the
yield
to
you
and
I
see
a
hand
raised
so
yeah
david.
F
Yeah,
and-
and
so
I
don't
know
what
happened
to
my
camera,
I
crashed
out
briefly
when
I
came
back
and
said
my
camera
wasn't
working,
so
I
apologize,
but
is,
is
that
just
so
that
five
percent
coupon
rate
is
that
just
a
function
of
the
municipal
market,
because
to
me
it
just
adds
confusion
right.
We
are
paying
1.1,
we
are
borrowing
1.3
million
dollars
right,
it
is,
and
so
it's
what's
the
dynamic
there
of.
F
E
Yes,
yeah
it,
it
really
isn't
just
a
function
of
the
market
and
what
investors
want,
and
you
have
to
remember
that
these
are
tax-exempt
bonds
and
then
that
means
that
the
interest
that
this
investor
is
getting
is
federally
tax-exempt.
So
for
them,
if
they're
buying
a
bond
they'd
rather
pay
additional
money
to
get
a
bond
with
a
higher
rate
that
then
pays
them
interest
at
a
tax-exempt
level.
E
So
there's
a
little
bit
of
tax
kind
of
gamesmanship
in
that
regard
for
it,
but
it's
it's
100,
not
dictated
by
the
city
or
by
us,
it's
by
the
bidder,
every
every
underwriter
that
bids
bids
with
a
totally
different
interest
rate
scale
based
on
what
investors
that
they
have
to
purchase
these
bonds.
So
in
this
case,
what
you
see
is
a
mix
you
see
of
a
couple
five
percent
coupons
offered
at
very
high
premiums.
Then
you
go
to
the
end
of
the
schedule
in
2041
and
you
actually
have
discount
bonds.
E
So
what
that
means
is
you're
offering
520
000
in
bonds.
The
market
rate
is
a
225..
The
investor
only
wants
2.125
to
an
eighth
and
therefore
they're
gonna
pay
you
less
than
the
stated
value
it's
for
five
hundred
and
twenty
thousand
dollars
in
bonds
that
you're
offering
they're
paying
you
five
hundred
and
nine
thousand
dollars.
F
Right,
okay,
and
are
we
always
are
we
stuck
with
this
term
structure
as
well?
I
mean
to
me,
you
know,
20-year.
Bonds
are
expensive,
right
and-
and
that's
another
question
I
have
for
later-
is:
do
municipalities
ever
have
like
a
floating
rate
sort
of
instrument,
a
commercial
paper
type
instrument
that
is
much
lower
in
rate?
You
don't
want
your
whole
structure
to
be
that,
but
but
who
dictates
that
you're
issuing
20
years
in
bonds
here
because
you're
having
to
pay
up?
B
So
just
I've
read
that
yeah
I
mean,
and
I
know
we
are
kind
of
running
short
of
time,
just
to
wrap
up,
but
like
yeah
I
mean
we
should
I
work
with
the
financial
advisor
and
that's
where
I
look
at
the
annual
debt
service
that
okay,
how
much
increase?
Would
this
generate
into
a
like
additional
tax
levy?
Because
this
is
now
you
know,
turns
into
a
debt
service
tax
levy.
B
J
Yeah,
you
know
dovetailing
off
of
what
david
said
you
know
using.
Maybe
some
shorter
term
instruments
will
kind
of
match
fund
as
well,
because
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
surprised
me
in
the
past
was
you
know
we
were
looking
at
doing
20-year
bonds
and
we
were
financing
things
like
you
know,
filling
in
potholes
or
or
resurfacing
tennis
courts
or
in
some
cases,
as
we
used
to
do
paying
engineers
salaries.
Those
are
not
things
that
should
be
financed
over
20
years.
C
B
Again,
I
mean,
as
consumer
bonds
said,
this
is
a
different
thing
in
the
past
city
has
used
variable
bonds.
City
has
used
a
line
of
credit
for
a
temporary
requirement
for
some
of
the
tips
so
yeah.
This
is
like
a
whole
discussion
where
we
can
talk
for
a
couple
of
hours
on
yeah
how
we
fund
the
projects.
You
know
once
the
council
said
yeah.
We
like
the
project
yeah
go
ahead,
but
we
want
to
talk
about
how
we
going
to
fund
this.
G
B
G
C
D
B
I'm
like
anthony,
no,
I
don't
think
this
is
enough
yeah.
Obviously
I
wasn't
going
to
get
the
bigger
savings
because
already
the
coupon
was
low
for
the
bonds
we
were
going
to
refund,
but
then
I
said
like
why?
Don't
we
just
wait
until
we
do
the
current
refunding
in
21,
even
though
the
economy,
the
interest
rate
environment
whole,
the
kovic
situation
was
so
uncertain
and
ultimately,
when
we
did
the
current
refunding,
we,
I
think
generated
654.
B
E
E
E
The
city
pays
principal
on
an
annual
basis
and
it
pays
interest
on
a
semi-annual
basis.
Again,
we
can
structure
these
bonds
really
in
any
way
we
need
to
based
on
the
policy
directives
of
the
city.
So
in
this
case
what
you're
looking
at
is
remember
this.
This
issue
had
two
purposes
so
you've
got
a
new
money
purpose
that
was
20
years
relatively
level,
debt
service
and
that's
running
the
whole
length
of
the
term
and
then
you've
got
that
refunding
and
with
that
refunding
that
is
only
through
2032..
E
We
didn't
extend
the
term
of
that
refunding.
It's
not
like
a
mortgage
where,
if
you
had,
you
know
eight
years
left
on
your
mortgage,
you
refined
with
the
30
year.
You
now
have
a
30-year
mortgage.
We
kept
the
term,
we
didn't
extend
the
repayment
turn
on
those
on
those
2012
days.
So,
that's
why
you
see
this
big
bubble
in
debt
service,
where
it
jumps
to
one
and
a
half
million
over
a
million
through
2032
and
then
and
then
dives
off.
E
That's
because
you're,
essentially
looking
at
two
purposes
here,
combined
into
one,
oh
and
again,
really
quick
these
coupon
rates,
then,
as
I
had
mentioned,
these
are
the
nominal
rates
that
are
being
charged
on
the
amount
of
bonds
you're
issuing.
So
in
this
case,
you
issued
14.4
million
dollars
in
bonds
to
accomplish
was
essentially
15.6
million
dollars
in
uses.
E
E
E
E
Exactly
so
municipal
bonds,
unlike
a
mortgage,
are
not
callable
anytime,
you
set
the
call
date.
Typically,
it's
eight
to
ten
years
after
issuance
is
when
you
can
first
call
them
in
so
here
was
the
sources
and
uses
page
for
the
2020
bonds.
So
again
it
was.
This
was
27.96
million
in
bonds,
you
received
a
reoffering
premium
of
3.35
million,
because
there
was
a
refund
and
component
component.
Excuse
me,
you
had
that
transfer
in
for
debt
service
that
went
right
into
the
escrow.
E
E
One
thing
you'll
notice
is
that
this
issue
had
two
credit
ratings,
so
there
was
an
additional,
approximately
20
25
000
in
rating
fees
that
we
eliminated
in
the
next
issue.
When
we
only
went
with
one
credit
rating
project,
construction
fund,
deposit
was
16.488
million
and
then
deposit
to
the
current
refunding
fund
of
14.7
million
dollars
that
went
into
escrow
to
refund
those
2010
and
2011
bonds.
E
Here
was
the
maturity
schedule
which
ranged
yields
from
0.3
percent
to
1.9
percent,
and
then
the
debt
service
schedule
again
that
service
schedule
can
be
a
little
funny,
because
this
is
two
purposes.
So
it's
you
know
accomplishing
two
goals:
you've
got
your
new
money,
structured
relatively
level
over
20
years
and
you've
got
this.
This
refunding
that's
structure
two-term
for
each
issue,.
E
For
the
refunding
portion
again
for
the
2020
bonds,
they
were
funded.
The
10s
and
11as
here
is:
if
you're,
looking
at
a
debt
service
comparison.
What
this
does
is
it
takes
the
total,
principal
and
interest
from
the
old
bonds
as
a
summary,
so
they
ran
from
21
through
31
and
then
you
add
in
your
new
debt
service,
which
runs
against
the
same
term.
We
didn't
extend
the
term
of
those
bonds.
E
I'm
sorry
total
pni
new
bonds,
existing
bonds,
this
old
net
debt
service
is
your
old
debt
service
from
your
10as
and
11as
and
again
we
did
not
extend
the
term
so
you'll
see
that
the
new
debt
service,
which
is
the
total
pni
plus
what
was
left
unrefunded,
is
less
than
the
old
debt
service
oop.
I
made
it
move
and
that
results
in
your
savings.
So
this
is
your
debt
service
savings.
E
This
is
what
you'll
actually
save
from
the
refund,
and
it
was
just
over
2.5
million
dollars
and
then
what
you
see
down
here
is
it's
is
it's
present
valued
back
to
today's
dollars,
using
the
all
in
rate,
which
was
just
over
one
percent,
so
on
a
present
value
basis?
It
was
almost
two
and
a
half
million
dollars
in
savings
or
17
of
refunded
principle.
E
E
Discounted
based
on
the
all-in
cost
of
the
bonds,
and
so
you'll
see
here,
net
present
value
cash
flow
savings
at
1.058
percent.
Remember
that
the
the
true
interest
cost
of
this
bond
issue
was
like
about
a
1.5
percent.
The
reason
that
this
is
lower
is
because
it's
just
for
this
portion
of
the
bonds
which
only
extended
to
2031.,
so
it
discounts
it
based
on
the
cost
of
the
bonds.
E
E
I
typically
use
the
all
in
cost,
because
it's
a
it's
a
higher
rate
and
I
think
it
gives
you
a
more
true
representation,
so
it
actually
shows
a
lower
net
present
value
savings
than
if
I
used
a
different
rate
thanks
so
the
2021
bonds.
Again
we
we
went
through
this
with
the
example,
but
it's
14.42
million
8.8
of
that
was
new
money
and
the
remaining
was
the
refunding
of
the
12
a-bonds.
E
E
Both
for
both
refinancings,
we
didn't
extend
the
term
length
of
the
bonds
for
that
portion
of
the
bonds,
the
so
I'll
go
back
to
this
as
an
example:
the
old
bonds.
Here,
if
you
look
at
old
net
debt
service,
the
final
payment
was
december,
1st
2031
and
the
the
final
payment
on
the
new
bonds
related
to
the
refunding
is
also
december.
1St
2031..
We
did
not
extend
the
debt
service
on
the
refunding
portion.
E
A
E
E
We
saw
these
two
pages.
This
is
the
net
debt
service
schedule
for
the
new
money
portion.
Only
so
if
we
look
at
this
now,
if
we
you
look
at
the
total
debt
service
schedule
and
again
we
talked
about
how
we've
got
on
the
right
side
here
this
schedule,
where
it
goes
up
over
a
million
and
then
drops
below
that
to
500
000.
The
reason
for
that
is,
if
you
pair
out
these
two
purposes,
you
look
at
the
new
money.
Only
new
money
was
530
000
a
year
for
20
years.
E
G
E
E
Yeah,
I'll
and
and
I'll
go
briefly
and
and
available
for
further
discussions,
because
they
they
certainly
warranted
it's
a
complicated
process.
But
yes,
I
am,
and
so,
with
a
with
the
idea
of
a
pension
bond,
you
have
a
you,
have
an
unfunded
pension
liability
for
your
police
and
fire
pension
plans
that
charges
you
an
interest
rate
attach,
you
can
remind
me,
is
somewhere
around
six
and
a
half
to
seven
percent.
I
would
imagine
okay,
so
you
have
this
liability,
200
million
dollars
at
six
and
a
half
percent.
E
The
concept
behind
a
pension
obligation
bond
is
that
you
could
fund
that
liability
through
the
issuance
of
bonds
and
repay
that
with
a
with
a
lower
bond
rate,
so
say
your
bond
rate
because
you'd
have
to
issue
these
as
taxable
general
obligation
bonds.
So
your
bond
rate's
around
three
percent.
So
I
pay
off
my
six
and
a
half
percent
liability
with
a
three
percent
liability.
E
E
These
pobs
have
been
talked
about
for
a
long
time,
especially
in
illinois.
What
I
would
say
is
that
when
we
used
to
talk
about
them
and
people
would
introduce
the
idea-
and
the
taxable
rate
was
five
and
a
half
percent-
and
we
were
talking
about
saving
going
from
seven
and
a
half
or
seven
percent
to
five
and
a
half
percent,
the
risk
was
too
high.
There
wasn't
enough
savings
versus
the
risk
of
knowing
that
you
had
to
be
five
and
a
half
percent.
E
J
E
E
B
I
think
we
can
do
a
touch
more
on
this
next
month
when
we
have
the
pensions
thing
so
yeah
we
can.
I
will
ask
actually-
and
I
will
see
if
we
want
anthony
back
or
even
at
least
let's
first
hear
from
the
actuary-
that's
the
most
important,
and
then
we
can
have
yeah.
If
the
council
is
interested,
we
can
have
anthony
interested
in
that
I've
already
talked
to
anthony
few
times
in
last
six
months.
B
I
mentioned
this
thing
at
the
very
last
meeting
at
the
council
pension
obligation
bonds
before
you
guys
adopted
the
budget,
but
we
can
certainly
look
at
it.
Yeah
the
things
have
changed
a
lot,
but
for
many
years
our
association
gfo
finance
of
it
was
against
issuing
the
pobs
pension
obligation,
bonds.
E
The
last
thing
I
was
just
going
to
cover
is
just
a
brief
market
update
not
to
go
too
in-depth.
Here,
we've
seen
a
lot
of
change,
even
in
the
last
couple
weeks,
as
people
are
kind
of
digesting
fed
minutes
and
we've
seen
treasury
rates
tick
up.
But
historically,
what
this
is
is
a.
This
is
an
index
of
20-year
double-a
bond
yields.
So
it's
a
really
good
representation
of
where
a
borrowing
would
be.
If
you
were
to
do
a
20-year
bond
issue
right
now,
it's
it's
a
it's
a
big
chart.
E
It
goes
all
the
way
back
to
the
80s
when
you
would
have
to
borrow
at
13,
but
looking
at
the
last
year,
you
know
we
saw
beyond
covid
and
after
some
spikes
and
then
ending
kind
of
the
the
summer
of
of
last
year
and
and
beyond,
really
historically
low
interest
rates,
we're
starting
to
see
some
trends
upwards.
Now
nothing,
that's
you
know
pulling
us
too
far
back
up
to
the
levels
we
were.
E
This
is
a
kind
of
a
snapshot
of
a
few
things.
The
the
top
left
is
the
aaa
mmd.
So
that's
the
aaa
municipal
market
data
curve.
So
that's
the
index
that
municipal
bonds
are
priced
off
of
and
and
I've
got
the
just
from
21
through
22.
You
can
see
the
two
year,
the
10-year
and
the
20-year
aaa
municipal
market
data
curve.
So
not
a
lot
of
movement
we're
starting
to
see
some
trends
upwards
now,
but
still
extremely,
you
know,
historically
low
interest
rates.
E
One
interesting
thing:
if
you
look
at
the
chart
to
the
top
right,
the
the
issuance
between
taxable
and
tax
exempt
bonds
has
has
changed
in
recent
years.
For
a
few
reasons,
with
the
lacks
last
tax
reform,
they
eliminated
the
ability
for
cities
to
do
tax
exempt
advance
refundings.
So
what
that
means
is
you
used
to
be
able
to?
If
you
had
a
bond
issue
that
wasn't
callable
for
a
few
years,
you
could
do
a
tax
exempt
for
funding.
E
Put
the
money
in
escrow:
invest
it
at
no
more
than
the
bond
rate
and
then
and
refund
that
old
issue,
so
the
money
would
stay
in
escrow
and
if
it
had
to
sit
there
for
three
years,
it
could
do
that
and
then
pay
off
your
old
bonds.
Federal
government
said
they
don't
want
that
to
happen
anymore,
because
for
them
it's
it's,
two
investors
buying
municipal
bonds
and
it's
costing
them
additional
funds,
so
they
outlawed
it.
A
E
A
F
C
F
At
least
some
of
your
debt
be
variable
in
nature,
so
you're
paying
off
that
lower
curve,
not
that
upper
curve,
noting
that,
of
course,
that
there's
a
risk
as
rates
go
up,
but
they,
you
know
what
what
what's
a
good
benchmark
of
of
the
judgment
that
other
people
have
made
about
the
right
mix
between
issuing
long-term
bonds
and
and
some
sort
of
variable
rate
instrument
for
at
least
some
of
your
your
bond
structure.
That
would
just
I
don't
you
don't
have.
E
Could
kind
of
talk
to
that?
You
know.
I
cover
a
lot
of
municipalities,
a
lot
of
home
rule
municipalities
that
are
well
rated,
I
would
say
really
20
years
is
probably
the
the
benchmark
as
far
as
your
typical
new
money
issuance
based
on
the
projects
that
they're
undertaking
you
know.
Obviously,
yes,
if
you're
doing
a
road
restructuring
or
not
restructuring,
but
a
resurfacing,
that's
not
going
to
last!
E
You
know,
18
years,
then
we
don't
want
to
issue
20
year
bonds
for
that,
if
you're
buying
a
fire
truck
at
1.6
million
dollars,
we
you
know,
you
don't
want
to
issue
a
20-year
loan
for
that,
so
you
do
want
to
match
your
your
repayment
with
your
asset.
That
said,
you
know
it's
there's
not
a
ton
in
the
municipal
market
of
especially
in
the
local
municipal
market
of
variable
rate
instruments,
there's
only
a
few
really
remaining
out
there.
E
City
peoria
is
actually
one
they're,
a
client
of
mine
and
we're
actually
taking
it
out
this
year.
It's
you
know
it's
only
around
a
half
percent,
but
we're
looking
at
rates
potentially
going
up,
there's
not
really
much
left
on
it
and
with
long-term
rates.
As
low
as
they
are
they're
gonna,
they're
gonna
call
it
in
and
not
have
to
worry
about
that.
That's
you.
B
E
D
E
E
You
know
if
you're
doing
a
a
five
million
dollar
issue,
but
it's
only
three
years
and
that
rating
is
going
to
cost
you
eighteen
thousand
dollars.
Are
you
gonna
save
eighteen
thousand
dollars
in
interest
costs
over
those
three
years?
If
twenty
year
deal,
it's
gonna,
be
it's
gonna
easily
make
up
for
for
the
cost.
Through
your
deal,
it
may
not.
So
we
we
do
have
to
do
that
and
often
sell
those
things
without
ratings.
B
You
know
and
obviously
I
think
council
member
reid
brought
it
up-
why
we
need
to
issue
the
bonds,
because
this
is
the
old
town,
a
lot
of
money
required
for
the
capital
projects,
infrastructure,
water
reserve
and
once
yeah,
and
at
the
same
time,
when
we
shoot
the
bonds
in
the
past,
there
are
some
bonds
which
become
callable,
you
know,
and
generally
they
are
after
10
years
so
and
we
always
generate
a
substantial
savings.
You
see.
Last
year
we
had
two
and
a
half
million
dollar
lot
of
refunding
savings.
B
At
the
same
time,
you
have
to
remember
that
not
all
the
bonds
are
kind
of
we
levy
for
that,
the
bonds
which
are
issued
for
parking
funds
bonds,
which
are
issued
for
tiff
phone
bonds,
which
are
issued
for
waterfront.
They
are
paid
for
by
the
fund
revenue.
You
know
parking
revenues,
waterfront
revenues
or
if
it's
we
have
issued
bonds
for
some
of
the
tips
too
and
they
are
paid
out
of
the
tif
incremental
revenue.
So.
A
B
B
Third
was
a
taxable
balance
for
the
tip,
so
we
did
as
a
separate
series
of
bonds,
but
my
point
is:
sometimes
people
see
the
higher
amount,
say
20
million
pounds
it
is
issued
or
25
half
of
them
is
refunding
the
other
half
of
that
is
for
the
waterfront
or
parking
funds
or
the
tiff
funds,
and
it
does
not
have
any
impact
on
the
tax
levy.
So,
ideally,
you
have
to
look
at
for
that
cip
money,
the
cattle
projects
which
is
tech,
supported
debt.
A
B
B
So
obviously
we
would
lose
some
savings
by
doing
a
taxable
refunding.
So
that's
why
and
I
work
with
lara
toomey.
They
are
the
people
who
have
the
timeline
who
are
working
with
other
agencies
in
terms
of
grant
and
funding
and
working
with
the
contractors,
and
I
asked
them
that
okay,
this
is
my
timeline
when
I
start
conversation
with
anthony-
and
I
shared
that
with
the
lara
dave,
stoneback
and
all
that
and
say
do,
are
you
okay?
If
we
get
the
money
in
september
and
they
would
say
yes,
we
are
fine
right.
A
G
But
I
think
we
also
within
to
anthony's
point
the
importance
of
matching
repayment
with
our
asset.
I
think
that's
something
that
we
can
do
a
better
job
at
at
our
city
when
we
write
about
when
we
talk
about
routine
maintenance
jobs
like
we
really
don't
want
to
capitalize
20
years
of
repaving,
and
just
things
like
that,
I
think
we
all
agree
that
I
think
my
senses.
B
B
If
I
come
to
you
and
say
yes,
you
said:
okay
just
take
away
these
three
projects,
which
is
like
more
like
you
know,
under
five-year
life,
and
we
don't
want
to
make
sense
yes
from
strictly
finance.
How
would
we
bring
the
funds?
Are
we
going
to
have
the
fund
balance
be
used
and
for
at
least
a
couple
of
years
we
can
use
yes,
our
money,
because
it's
eligible
for
the
certain
capital
projects,
so
we
can
use
that.
G
Is
it's
very
expensive,
though,
to
capital
for
20
years
to
be,
you
know
paying
interest
to
for
something
that's
routine.
It
also
is
not
giving
us
a
realistic
idea
of
our
budget
in
terms
of
how
we
levy
also.
So
I
think
it's
really
important
that
first,
we
look
at
you
know,
including
this
into
our
budget
and
then
anything
that's
extra
or
that's,
not
neces.
You
know
a
necessity.
We
look
at
that
in
terms
of
capital
projects
and
and
bonding
that,
but
routine
maintenance.
G
We
need
to
figure
out
what
we
need
in
our
budget
and
that
sometimes
we
might
just
say,
guess
what
we
really
can't
afford
to
do
certain
things,
because
I
think
it's
really
not
a
good
way
to
spend
our
tax
dollar
by,
like
I
say,
capitalizing
over
20
years
salaries
or
street
repaving
things
that
we
do
every
year
so
and
I
think
you
know
that
was
anthony's
point
about
matching
the
repayment
with
the
asset.
So
I
I
just
would
like
to
see
us
move
more
in
that
direction.
A
B
A
F
J
A
A
Given
the
the
timeline
of
the
budget
process
and
the
capital
improvement
process,
when
would
it
be
obviously
sooner
is
always
sooner
rather
than
later,
is
always
best,
but
by
when
would
you
need
some
if
there
is
additional
guidance
or
a
change
of
direction
or
or
some
recommendations
from
this
committee
by
when?
Would
you
need
that
in
order
to
incorporate
that
those
changes
into
the
next
cycle?
I.
B
B
C
B
B
H
C
G
D
The
pension
board
for
illinois-
we-
we
had
committee
meetings
like
this,
but
then
we
actually
had
open
working
meetings.
I
don't
know
if
that's
like
it's
great
to
get
all
this
education,
but
there's
so
many
questions
and
things
we'd
love
to
really
dig
in
deeper.
Is
it
possible
to
have
another
meeting
with
the
full
group
and
just
have
an
open
meeting
where
we
can
discuss
some
of
these
things?
D
G
A
H
H
H
G
B
A
B
E
I
I
I'll,
just
chime
in
you
know,
I
think,
if
there's
some,
if
there's
two
people
that
want
to
break
off
into
a
working
group
and
focus
on
a
particular
area,
they
should
do
that.
But
just
generally,
I
think
to
I
am
you
know
also
concerned
about
two-person
working
groups.
I
don't
know
how
effective
that
could
be,
but
more
importantly,
I
think
I'm
also
open
to
just
meeting
more
often
if,
if
we
need
to
so
I
would
look
at
this.
I
I
mean
this
committee
is
certainly
be
a
long-term
committee,
but
but
in
this
interim
period
I
see
it
more
of
a
task
force
that
we're
supposed
to
kind
of
get
in
get
to
work
and
come
back
with
some
recommendations
and
task
forces
often
meet.
You
know
more
frequently,
and
you
know
typically
in
the
beginning,
so
I'm
also
just
willing
to
meet
more.
I
You
know
often
if
we
want
to
make
some
recommendations,
it's
and
it's
not
just
before
the
test
comes
back
with
and
discusses
bonds,
but
it
also
has
a
lot
to
do
with
the
when
we're
going
to
talk
about
the
cip,
you
know
process
that
has
obviously
that
you
know
drives
the
amount
of
bonds
that
you
know
attached
or
we
look
at
issuing
so
so
that
yeah.
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
that
I'm
I'm
also
hoping
to
to
meet
him
more
often
and
yeah.
A
A
Them
yeah
so
we're
in
the
process
of
creating
them
it's.
I
think
it
would
be
prudent
if
we
devoted
some
time
on
an
upcoming
agenda
to
talk
about
that
like
what
are
we
trying
to
do
and
what
kind
of
advice
and
recommendations,
what
type
of
advice
and
recommendations
do
we
want
to?
You
know,
impose
upon
ourselves
ourselves
to
deliver.
G
So
I
would
also
just
say
I
mean
we
can't
obviously
it's
awkward
and
clumsy
to
be
doing
research
while
we're
all
meeting
here,
so
there's
nothing
to
preclude
two
people.
You
know
with
one
you
know
to
be
to
work
and
do
some
deep
further
investigation
regarding
bonds
or
cip,
or
you
know
anything
else
related
to
the
budget
in
a
specified
area
where
either
like
david
has
expertise
or
sherry
or
leslie.
I
I
think,
go
for
it
like
why
not
it's
not
if
it's
not
violating
oma
and
we're
going
to
get
further
along.
H
A
G
The
kind
of
thing
yeah
or
something
and
david
seems,
like
you,
understand,
bonds
really.
Well,
I
I
would
just
say
yeah
like
so
that
may
be
someone
who
wants
to
you
know
reach
out
and
say
hey
if
I
can
do
something
or
help
or
I'd
like
to
you
know,
work
together
and
then
bring
back
some.
You
know
research
to
the
full
group
right
yeah.
I
think
bobby.
G
Well,
I
think
we
said
tonight,
for
example,
we're
on
bonds
that
we
need
to
review
how
we're
issuing
bonds-
and
you
know
our
debt
and
what
we
feel
is.
We
need
to
be
incurring.
You
know
large
amounts
of
debt
for,
and
you
know,
I
think,
I
think
in
the
end,
we
actually
need
to
move
towards
sort
of
a
bond
checklist.
A
G
Right
but
I'm
saying
that
we
like
we
have
experts
here,
community
members,
volunteering
giving
their
time
and
they
are
experts
I
would
love.
I
would
you
know
the
fact
that
sherry
and
has
offered
to
you
know
wants
to
go
ahead
and
start
doing
more
research.
I
I
don't
want
to
hold
anybody
back.
We
should
absolutely
take
advantage
of
this
and
and
help
get
our
city
finances
in
better
shape.
B
B
I
I
A
A
Yeah,
so
I
guess
my
recommendation
would
be
whether
it's
pensions
or
capital
improvements
that
we
do
next
month.
That
will
go
through
kind
of
a
similar
overview
for
our
own
benefit,
but
also
put
some
time
on
the
agenda
to
have
that
internal
discussion
about
how
we
want
to
organize
the
committee,
and
maybe
you
know,
start
drafting
a
work
plan.
B
J
B
Mean
and
I'm
fine,
it
is
up
to
the
chair
and
all
that,
but
I'm
just
throwing
it
out
there,
so
you
saw
like
okay,
we
discussed
for
almost
two
hours,
just
the
that
issue
at
that
too.
Maybe
higher
level,
but
yes
at
least
capital
funding,
the
big
the
projects
and
what
type
of
projects
and
then
how
we
fund
that
that
could
be
again
easily
to
our
discussion
here
and
pensions
is
a
lot
bigger
issue
than
that.
You
know
and
again
it's
up
to
the
yeah.
B
A
So
I
think
maybe
what
I'll
suggest
is
you
know
we
take
one
topic
per
month
over
the
next,
at
least
several
months,
pensions
or
in
capital
improvement
being
on
the
upcoming
agendas,
but
also
next
month.
Let's
devote
some
agenda
time
to
you
know,
defining
our
work
plan,
and
maybe
we
can
come
up
with
a
draft
next
month
and
then
approve
it
in
in
in
march,
and
then
we
can
actually
get
to
work
once
we
have
that
work
plan,
we'll
know
we'll
have
our
marching
orders.
A
At
this
point
we
don't
have
our
marching
orders
and
I
feel
like
as
a
non-financial
expert.
You
know
myself
alone,
I'm
still
in
learning
mode,
and
I
want
to
know
more.
So
I
can
better
advocate
for
my
constituents
and
and
better
advocate
for
for
my
priorities
and
point
of
view,
I'm
still
in
in
learning
mode
myself.
F
D
A
F
B
Right
then
I
mean
the
thing
is
in
terms
of
pensions.
I
mean
similar
decision
would
be
right
around
the
budget
time
when
we
say
okay,
we
are.
These
are
the
actually
recommended
contributions,
so
that
would
become
the
tax
levy
for
fire
pension
and
police
pension.
So
yeah
you
have
more
time
there,
because
I
will
the
debt
would
come
first
in
july
and
then
the
september
october
would
be
a
tax
levy
time
and
the
budget
time.