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From YouTube: Land Use Commission Meeting 6-8-2022
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A
Good
evening
and
welcome
this
is
the
june
8
2022
meeting
of
the
public
hearing
of
the
land
use
commission.
The
city
code
directs
this
body
to
hear
applications
for
map
and
text
amendments
special
uses,
including
plan
developments,
zoning
relief
and
appeals
from
decisions
of
the
zoning
administrator,
as
well
as
to
make
recommendations
regarding
the
city's
long-term
planning
goals
and
objectives
depending
on
the
type
of
matter.
This
commission
will
either
make
a
final
determination
or
send
its
recommendation
to
city
council.
A
With
six
members
present
this
evening,
did
I
count
right
six?
Yes,
we
do
have
a
quorum
also
present
from
city
staff.
Tonight
our
neighborhood
land
use
planner,
megan
jones
and
assistant
city
attorney,
alex
ruggy.
A
A
Without
looking
good
all
right,
so
if
anyone
is
here
tonight
because
of
that,
we
will
not
be
hearing
that
case
this
evening,.
A
C
Just
one
small
correction:
okay,
on
page
six,
the
third
paragraph
under
questions
it
says,
chair
scott,
then
asked
if
it
was
mr
scott's
contention.
I
think
that
should
be
chair.
Rogers.
A
A
All
right
thanks
yeah
just
so
I
have
a
vote
of
five
zero
to
one
and
then
that
motion
passes.
As
I
said,
the
the
old
business
case
that
we
have
is
the
major
adjustment
to
a
planned
development
they've.
The
staff
has
asked
for
a
continuance
on
that.
Is
there
a
motion
to
continue
that
until
our
june
22nd
meeting.
A
Removed
by
westerberg
is
there
a
second
second
second
by
aravallo
again
without
anybody
participating.
We
can
do
this
by
voice
vote
all
those
in
favor
of
continuing
the
case
until
june
22nd,
please
say:
aye
aye,.
A
Anyone
opposed
by
six
to
vote
to
six
to
zero
vote.
The
case
will
be
continued
until
our
june
22nd
meeting.
A
The
I
do
see
that
we
have
two
people,
I'm
going
to
take
things
a
little
out
of
order
here
we
usually
do
public
comment
after
communication
and
discussion,
but
I'm
going
to
ask
if
there's
anybody
here
who
wants
to
make
public
comments,
so
you
don't
have
to
sit
through
our
training
session,
so
all
right,
so
all
right!
So
with
that,
then
I
will
turn
it
over
to
miss
ruggy,
who
will
be
leading
us
through
the
training
session
this
evening.
D
I
know
land
use
has
been
operating
for
a
little
while
now,
it's
just
kind
of
an
update
to
foia
and
oma
how
it
applies
to
the
land
use
as
well
as
robert's
rules
of
order
and
then
I'll
do
a
little
bit
of
training
pertaining
to
the
land.
Use
commission
specifically,
so
I'm
sure
you're
all
aware
that
the
open
meetings
act
or
oma
as
it's
referred
to
applies
to
all
public
bodies
in
the
state
of
illinois.
D
D
D
The
open
meetings
act
defines
a
public
meeting
as
having
a
gathering
with
the
majority
of
the
quorum
to
discuss
public
business.
So
when
you
take
those
three
things
separately,
a
majority
of
quorum
tonight,
you
have
a
majority
of
quorum,
just
barely
so
you're
10
members
right
now-
and
you
have
six
here.
So
that's
a
majority
of
quorum
and
then
discussing
public
business,
which
is
what
you've
done
here
tonight.
D
D
A
couple
of
times,
different
public
bodies
within
the
state
of
illinois
have
gotten
a
little
caught
because
they
accidentally
had
a
meeting
of
a
majority
of
the
quorum
and
discussed
public
business,
but
it
was
outside
of
a
formal
meeting
and
that
would
be
a
violation
of
the
open
meetings
act.
So
as
the
law
department,
we
recommend
that
if
there
is
a
majority
of
quorum
present,
you
ensure
that
no
public
business
is
being
discussed.
D
The
other
way
in
which
oma
can
be
violated
accidentally
is
via
email.
So,
if
there's
an
email
with
a
majority
of
the
commissioners
and
public
businesses,
discuss
that
could
be
a
violation
of
oma
I
say
could
be
because
if
you're,
just
talking
about
meetings
or
scheduling
who
can
attend,
who
cannot
attend?
That's
not
really
public
business,
it
doesn't
qualify.
D
D
Everyone's
favorite
foia
freedom
of
information,
so
a
quick
overview
as
a
public
body.
We
are
also
subject
to
the
freedom
of
information
act.
Freedom,
freedom
of
information
act,
basically,
instructs
that
all
public
documents
are
open
to
the
public
for
inspection,
it's
to
promote
transparency
within
the
government
and
the
public,
and
we
follow
foia
pretty
strictly
here.
D
D
D
D
The
courts
have
broadened
that
most
recently
to
say,
if
you're,
a
commissioner
and
you're
talking
about
public
business
in
your
email
that
would
be
subject
to
foia.
If
ever
there's
a
foia
request,
you
will
most
likely
get
an
email
from
me
telling
you
of
the
foyer
request
and
asking
you
to
provide
the
city
with
any
responsive
documents.
D
You
have
the
other
situation
where
this
may
occur
is
text
messages
again
they
would
have
to
be
dealing
with
public
business
and
the
courts
previously
said
if
it
was
with
the
majority
of
quorum
that
would
count
or
during
the
meeting
that
would
also
count.
So,
if
you're
texting
someone
about
public
business
during
the
meeting
that
would
be
open,
like
I
said,
the
courts
have
recently
broadened
that
a
little
bit
we're
going
to
continue
to
monitor.
But
I'd
like
you
all,
just
to
be
aware
that
your
communication
may
be
subject
to
foia.
D
And
last
but
not
least,
for
this
set
of
slides
is
robert's
rules
of
order.
You're.
All
aware
that
the
land
use
commission
has
adopted
its
own
rules
and
procedures
for
the
meetings,
those
govern
your
meetings
where
in
which
those
rules
perhaps
may
not
have
any
specifics,
then
we
would
back
up
to
robert's
rules
of
order.
D
So
why
is
robert's
rules
of
order
and
the
land
use
rules
important
it's
important,
because
here,
when
you're
hearing,
when
you're
doing
hearings
and
when
you're
making
recommendations
to
city
council
or
final
determinations,
it's
very
important
that
you
have
a
clear
record
in
case.
It
goes
to
circuit
court
or
it's
appealed.
D
So
just
quickly
going
over
a
proper
motion,
it
should
include
the
case
number,
the
location
and
any
conditions
being
set
by
the
commission,
so
example,
in
the
matter
of
case
number
22
plnd
regarding
567
main
street.
I
move
approval
of
the
requested
zoning
relief
with
the
following
conditions,
xyz
and
that
the
project
be
in
substantial
compliance
with
the
testimony
provided
in
the
documents
on
file.
D
D
D
After
the
meeting,
I
believe
all
of
you
have
completed
the
oma
training
on
the
illinois
attorney
general's
website,
which
is
required
of
all
commissioners
and
provided
a
copy
of
that
certification
to
megan
or
katie.
If
not,
please
go
ahead
and
go
to
this
website
and
do
that
once
you've
done
it
once,
then,
you
are
good
to
go
all
right.
Should
we
go
to
the
next
one.
D
D
D
The
findings
and
standards
may
change
based
on
the
testimony
provided
here
at
land
use
and
then
it's
okay
to
disagree
with
staff
or
other
board
members,
but
you
must
articulate
a
reason
why
there's
a
disagreement
so
that
the
record
is
clear.
Obviously,
the
whole
point
is
that
10
people
should
not
always
agree
with
each
other.
You
should
have
differing
views
just
be
able
to
ensure
that
you
put
those
differences
on
the
record.
D
D
If
you
have
a
clear
record
on
why
the
standards
are
met
or
not
met,
then
it's
harder
to
overturn
them
and
that
helps
us
if
it
ever
goes
to
litigation
or
in
any
appeals
and
obviously,
as
you
know,
your
findings
are
given
to
the
city
council
for
recommendation
and
the
clearer
the
record.
The
more
the
city
council
can
use
those
recommendations.
D
I
believe
they
are
intentionally
vague,
but
that's
not
really
helpful,
sometimes
when
you're
up
here
reviewing
them
so
an
example
of
a
standard
I
find
to
be
vague.
The
requested
variation
will
not
have
a
subs
or
will
not
have
a
substantial
adverse
impact
on
the
use,
enjoyment
or
property
values
of
adjoining
properties.
D
D
D
D
How
do
you
determine
if
something's
a
mirror
inconvenience
versus
practical
hardship?
Well,
I
suggest
looking
at
the
keywords,
particular
practical
and
mere
and
how
they
kind
of
work
together
here.
You
can
also
consider
the
other
standards
required
in
this
section.
In
this
instance,
the
third
standard
states,
the
lead,
alleged
hardship
or
practical
difficulty
is
peculiar
to
the
property.
D
So
here
it
would
be
interesting
because
I
think,
if
all
the
properties
on
that
block
have
the
same
hardship,
then
you
can
say
well,
it's
not
particular
to
this
property.
So
then
you
can
know
that
both
of
those
standards
aren't
met
and
then
again
making
the
record
clear
and
just
you
know
specifying
why
these
standards
are
met
or
not.
Met
really
helps
going
forward.
D
Again,
just
to
wrap
up,
if
you
do
not
see
clearly
how
a
standard
is
met,
you
can
always
ask
the
applicant,
you
can
be
direct
about
it,
don't
bypass
a
standard,
so
I
don't
know
that
the
standards
met,
but
I
like
the
project.
Well,
we
just
can't
do
that.
We
have
to
follow
the
standards
to
make
the
record
clear.
A
Thank
you,
miss
ruggy
and
I'll
just
say
that
as
the
person
who
ends
up
going
through
the
standards
the
most,
I
would
appreciate.
If
people
don't
agree
with
me,
I
usually
at
the
end
say:
does
everyone
agree
with
my
findings
on
the
standards
and
usually
people
do
because
I'm
a
brilliant
person
and
always
come
up
with
the
best
answers?
A
A
E
Matt,
I
do
have
a
question
so
like
when,
when
we
were
on
the
zoning
board,
if
you
did
not
agree
with
one
of
the
standards,
then
you
had
to
vote.
A
Right
all
standards
have
to
be
met
and
if,
if
you
think
six
of
the
seven
standards
are
met
and
there's
a
way
that
you
see
because
of
some
little
change
that
could
be
made
to
the
project
to
make
all
seven
met
in
your
opinion,
do
voice
that,
because
if
it's,
I
remember,
we
had
a
case
on
chicago
avenue
where
they
were
wanting
to
put
balconies
out
over
the
right-of-way,
and
a
couple
of
us
on
planned
commission
were
like
okay.
Does
anybody
feel
strongly
that
those
must
be
there?
A
A
So
that's
how
we
got
to
approving
that
project
by
making
all
the
standards
met,
because
we
didn't
feel
a
couple
of
us
did
not
feel
that
one
standard
was
met,
but
by
removing
it
nobody
else
had
strong
feelings
to
support
it.
Yeah.
E
But
I
was
saying
like
so
when,
let's
say
there's
six
of
us
here
and
there's
a
project-
and
I
don't
agree
with
one
standard
right,
even
if
everybody
else
does,
I
would
still
be
the
opposing
vote.
So
if
it
would
be
five
two
one
right
so
whatever
standard
I
do
not
understand-
or
I
do
not
agree
with
that.
I
have
to
vote
no
right.
Okay,.
A
And
if
you,
if
you
aren't
quite
sure
what
a
standard
means,
because
some
of
our
standards
are
vague
and
and
weirdly
worded,
I
I
know,
there's
one
and
I
don't
remember
which
standard
it's
in
it's
in
one
of
the
the
plan
commission
standards.
So
I
don't
know
if
it
was
in
that
vague
plan
development
statement
that
we
used
to
have
before
we
adopted
standards.
But
one
of
them
addressed
the
schools
and
it's
like
well,
what
does
that
mean,
and
it
doesn't
mean?
A
Is
it
going
to
affect
the
school
buses
that
are
coming
to
and
from
the
school?
It
means
if
we
approve
a
project
that
were
to
have
suddenly
a
hundred
new
students
being
shoved
to
haven
school,
that's
going
to
affect
the
school
in
some
way
outside
of
anything
else.
So
it's
something
just
to
be
cognizant
of
I'm
not
saying
that
we
would
approve
or
disapprove
based
on
that,
but
kind
of
making
that,
as
we
talk
about
that
and
make
our
recommendation
to
city
council
that
they
be
aware
of
the
possible
impact
of
that
sort
of
thing.
C
I
think
when
you
you
usually
go
through
the
standards
after
we
deliberate,
as
I
recall,
do
you
want
to
do
that
beforehand
or
do
you
want
to
hear
comments.
A
I
usually
like
to
hear
the
conversation,
because
if,
if
discussion
changes
on
a
standard
like,
if
I
may,
I
may
think
a
standard
is
met,
but
I
may
see
that
20
other
you
know
everybody
else
on
the
board
doesn't
feel
it's
met.
I
will
address
that
a
little
differently
when
I
get
to
it
or
if
it's
kind
of
a
half
and
half
situation,
it's
like
how
can
we
get
a
majority
of
people
to
support
that
standard?
Is
there
a
condition
that
can
be
applied?
A
The
applicant
doesn't
really
have
an
understanding
as
to
why
and
the
courts
if
it
goes
into
the
courts
would
not
necessarily
understand
why
and
could
say
it's
an
arbitrary
decision.
There
was
no
discussion.
The
the
that
particular
commissioner
did
not
make
a
statement
did
not
address
the
issue.
They
just
voted.
No,
so
it's
an
arbitrary
statement,
an
arbitrary
decision.
E
A
I
think
that
that's
one
of
those
things
because
the
one
we
when
I
was
on
zba
the
one
that
we
used
to
have
a
lot
of
difficulty
with
was
the
minimum
change
necessary.
But
what
is
the
minimum
change
necessary?
I
want
to
put
a
two-car
garage
and
it's
a
two-car
garage,
20
foot
by
20
foot.
Is
it
20
foot
by
22
foot?
Is
it
22
foot
by
24
foot?
What's
the
minimum,
and
everybody
has
a
different
answer
to
that,
so
I
think
part
of
that
is
being
able
to
articulate
why
you
feel
strongly
on
something.
A
So
if
you
feel
that
it
is
a
a
real
hardship
versus
a
an
inconvenience
or
vice
versa,
being
able
to
articulate
why
that's
the
case,
so
you
know
on
this
particular
block.
We
see
six
houses
that
have
the
exact
same
setup.
None
of
them
have
this
problem.
A
We
don't
use
precedent.
There
is
no
precedent
because
for
any
property
that
you
can
bring
me,
I
can
point
out.
One
thing:
that's
different
on
it.
So
just
because
somebody
has
a
swing
set
or
has
a
garage
or
has
whatever
doesn't
mean
every
property
gets
that
same
setup,
because
that
garage
may
be
shifted
a
foot
closer.
It
may
be
that
they
had
to
move
it
because
of
a
tree.
There's
there's
always
some
strange
little
factor
in
it.
So
there
is
no
precedent
per
se.
C
A
There's
a
reason
that
if
you
can
make
a
compelling
argument
for
why
that
one
foot
is
necessary
for
you,
we
we
do
look
at
in
that
particular
situation.
We
look
at
things
like
you
know.
We
have
the
27
foot
front
yard,
but
that
becomes
irrelevant
if
everybody
has
a
15
foot,
front,
front
yard
or
people
have
a
12
foot
front
yard
and
a
an
8
foot
front
yard
and
a
7
foot
front
yard
and
a
12
foot
front
yard.
A
So
it
sort
of
becomes
a
consistency
thing
across
that
too.
So
there's
a
bunch
of
balancing
of
different
different
things
and
it's
up
to
an
applicant
to
make
their
argument.
A
E
Know
if
they
make
the
compelling
argument-
and
it
makes
sense,
then
I
would
vote
yes
for
that
project.
I
don't
go
by
well,
my
neighbor
has
this
or
you
know
I've
seen
it
down
the
street
and
I've
seen
it
in
other
places,
and
you
know
why
did
they
get
and
I
don't
get
kind
of
situation?
That's
why
I'm
saying
it's
the
particular
hardship
versus
a
mere
inconvenience.
E
If
you
argue
hard
enough,
you
will
get
your
your.
You
know
your
your
particular
hardship
versus
a
mere
inconvenience
right.
A
I
mean
it's
up
to
the
applicant
to
explain
to
us
why
it
is
a
hardship
for
them.
Some
of
them
are
pretty
straightforward
and
easy
to
identify
and
others
are
more
difficult.
Some
of
it
I
mean
we've
had
applicants
who
have
said
well,
I
want
it
here
and
it's
like.
Well,
that's
not
a
compelling
argument
for
you.
You
know
just
because
you
want
something
doesn't
mean,
that's
what
it
is.
A
We
apply
the
standards
and
we
should
be
applying
those
as
as
equitable
as
we
can
across
all
properties,
and
we
should
use
the
exact
same
logic
and
if
somebody
wants
something
and
all
of
their
neighbors
are
opposed
to
it.
That
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
we
shouldn't
grant
it
because
if
it
were
all
based
on
popularity,
then
we
wouldn't
need
to
be
here.
The
neighbors
would
all
just
get
together
and
take
a
vote
and
whatever
they
decided
would
be
the
decision.
A
A
Anything
you'd
like
to
add
respond
to
anything.
I
said
where
I
maybe
said
something
I
shouldn't
have.
D
No,
I
I
just
I'm
glad
that
there
was
some
discussion.
I
think
that,
even
though
the
land
use
commission
has
been
meeting
for
a
while,
it's
just
good
to
have
these
open
conversations
to
discuss
this,
because
I
think
for
everyone,
it
is
a
little
bit
of
a
learning
curve
and
I
appreciate
the
questions.
If
there's
more
questions
like
chair
rogers
said
you
can
reach
out
to
him
about
standards.
D
A
All
right
with
that
I'll
entertain
a
motion
to
adjourn.