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From YouTube: Planning and Development Committee Meeting 12-13-2021
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A
All
right
good
evening,
everyone
and
welcome
to
the
december
13
2021
meeting
of
the
planning
and
development
committee.
We
have,
we
have
a
quorum,
so
I
mean
call
us
to
order
and
ask
johanna
to
call
the
role.
Please
councilmember.
A
Okay,
so
our
first
two
items
of
business
are
approval
of
our
minutes.
From
our
last
two
meetings
do
could
I
have
a
motion
for
the
minutes
of
october
25th.
A
Any
discussion,
then
a
roll
call.
I
guess.
A
Okay,
so
we
have
two
items
of
business
this
evening
and
we're
going
to
take
them
p1,
first,
a
p2
first
and
then
p1
and
so
first
I'll
ask
if
there's
any
public
comment
for
item
p2,
which
is
about
the
bus,
shelter
program.
A
Okay,
then,
I
think
we
have
a
staff
presentation.
B
D
C
B
Okay,
so
jessica,
heinker
transportation,
mobility
coordinator,
is
on
the
zoom
and
is
going
to
provide
a
brief
presentation.
Summary
overview
of
this
situation.
E
Okay,
so
to
start,
these
are
two
shelters
that
kind
of
exemplify
the
current
cities.
F
E
E
Our
agreement
with
creative
outdoor
advertisement
started
10
years
ago,
and
it
includes
the
maintenance
except
for
snow
removal
on
seven
bus,
shelters
on
cta
routes
and
one
bus,
shelter
on
pace,
route
and
coa
does
own
these
bus
shelters.
There
are
advertisements
on
these
shelters
and
the
city
may
choose
to
not
allow
certain
advertisements.
E
E
That
does
make
the
shelter
less
comfortable
for
people
who
want
to
use
a
bench.
The
contract
expires
this
april
2022.
As
I
mentioned,
there
are
other
shelters
within
the
city
with
various
owners.
Some
are
owned
by
pace
and
some
are
unknown
entities
and
some
are
owned
by
the
city.
Some
of
these
shelters
are
ada
compliant.
E
Excuse
me,
while
some
are
not
generally,
these
shelters
do
not
have
ads,
but
they
are
very
dated
and
the
infrastructure
is
also
very
inconsistent.
E
E
The
pace
by
shelter
program
has
come
to
the
attention
of
the
city.
It's
a
no-cost
program
to
the
city.
It
includes
installation
of
bus
shelters
as
well
as
maintenance
maintenance,
including
snow
removal,
whereas
the
coa
program
does
not
include
snow
removal
pace
will
remove
old
shelters
as
part
of
this
program
where,
where
and
replace
them
with
new
shelters
at
no
cost
to
the
city,
the
designs
that
pace
includes
for
the
bus
shelter
program
were
presented
to
the
historic
preservation
commission
and
they
had
no
objections
to
the
designs.
E
E
E
Unfortunately,
pace
will
not
install
shelters
on
at
cta
only
stops
they
will
install
shelters
at
shared
pace.
Ncta
stops,
cta
does
not
have
a
bus,
shelter
program.
However,
the
city
could
choose
to
purchase.
Pace
designed.
Bus
shelters
for
cta
only
stops
to
ensure
that
there's
a
consistent
design
of
infrastructure
and
bus
shelter
infrastructure
within
the
city.
E
Additionally,
the
city
could
consider
entering
into
an
advertisement
agreement
similar
to
coa
or
what
pace
does
for
the
purchase
of
their
bus
shelter
program.
E
There
are
there's
a
course
of
action
that
the
the
city
can
consider
taking.
It's
recommended
that
the
city
enter
into
an
iga
with
pace
for
bus,
shelter,
installation
and
maintenance
to
coordinate
the
proposed
best
shelter
locations
with
peace
and
cta.
E
As
part
of
the
intergovernmental
agreement
with
pace,
the
city
will
be
able
to
veto
locations
and
also
to
recommend
other
locations
and
because
cta
does
not
have
their
own
program
and
it
is
funded
by
other
revenue
sources.
Then
the
city
has
a
larger,
determining
determination
of
where
those
shelters
go.
A
Thank
you
very
much
so
committee
members
questions
or
comments
council
member
when.
G
Well,
I
I
want
to
thank
staff
for
such
a
thorough
memo
and
such
a
a
very
good
presentation
on
the
options
and
choices
that
we
have,
and
I
think
that
going
forward
with
the
recommendations
of
the
staffs
makes
the
most
sense,
certainly
getting
working
to
get
a
uniformity
in
our
bus
stops
and
then
getting
community
input
into
where
the
best
places
to
put
them
and
then
also
taking
advantage
of
the
pace,
maintenance
and
snow
removal.
C
E
I
don't
anticipate
that
it
would
be
any
cheaper,
although
it
is
it's
hard
to
say
for
sure,
but
the
reason
why
I
do
not
anticipate
that
it
would
be
cheaper
is
because
pace's
contractor
would
already
be
coming
to
evanston
to
perform
maintenance.
So
presumably
it
would
be
cheaper
for
them
to
also
maintain
the
cta
shelters,
while
they're
in
evanston.
So.
C
E
It
would
likely
be
our
own
rate,
because
pace
holds
the
contract
for
the
maintenance
of
the
shelters
and
the
city
would
not
have
the
contract
with
the
maintenance
provider
of
the
pace,
shelters,
and
so
it
would
need
to
be
a
separate
contract
with
a
separate
negotiation.
But.
B
H
B
They're
going
to
say:
wait
why
they
they
forgot
if
the
contractor
hasn't
shown
up,
so
I
think
having
one
one
entity
doing
all
of
them.
So
there's
not.
I
could
already
envision
that
we
would
get
a
three
on
one
saying:
somebody
forgot
a
pace
or
a
bus,
shelter
and
and
we're
tracking
down
we're
calling
pete
and
they're
like
we
haven't
gotten
there.
That's
paid,
like
it's
just
gonna,
add
to
staff
time.
C
It
does
make
a
lot
of
sense
to
use
the
same
contractors.
How
many
shelters
are
we
talking
about
all
together,
like
that?
I
don't
have
a
firm
grasp
on
that,
like
we
have
12
cta
right
now
and
seven
pace
right
now,
but
is
that
what
we're
talking
about
moving
forward
right?
We're
talking
about
additional
shelters.
E
There
is
the
potential
there
that
there
could
be
additional
shelters.
It
will
be
based
on
ridership
ridership
on
buses
has
gone
down
because
of
the
pandemic.
However,
pace
and
cta
maintained
all
service
levels
in
evanston
pasted
cut
service
in
other
communities,
but
the
ridership
in
evanston
has
always
remained
high
enough
in
order
to
keep
all
right
all
routes
during
the
pandemic,
and
I
don't
foresee
that
there
there
certainly
would
not
be
fewer
shelters
and
I
would
anticipate
the
potential
for
additional
shelters
being
identified.
E
That's
correct,
they
are
so
old
and
that
there
is
no
record
of
of
who
placed
them
or
or
when
they
were
placed.
Unfortunately,
and.
C
B
Well,
I
think
this
meeting
in
and
of
itself
is
a
record
of
that
that
there
probably
wasn't
that
I
was
looking
those
those
have
been
around
most
of
my
lifetime.
So
I
don't
I
don't.
It
may
have
been
provided
at
one
point
by
cta
or
pace
in
in
pre
or
the
rta,
even
when
it
was
first
founded.
I
think
in
the
late
70s
really
yeah.
So
it's
been
no.
E
Yes,
that
would
be
the
recommendation
from
staff
in
order
to
have
updated,
modern,
ada
compliant
shelters
and
to
have
a
consistent,
uniform
designed
for
ease
of
use
by
public
transit
users
and
writers
and.
C
E
Yes,
that's
right!
All
of
the
pace,
shelter
designs
have
a
bench
and
have
a
space
for
people
to
pull
in
with
a
wheelchair.
C
Okay
and
do
we
have,
I
know
there
are
several
options
on
the
on
the
pace.
The
pace
brochure
have
we
narrowed
our
choice
down.
E
There
are
two
designs
that
are
have
a
slimmer
profile,
which
is
very
important
in
locations
where
we
have
narrow
sidewalk.
So
in
order
to
keep
the
sidewalk
ada
compliant
and
to
keep
the
shelter
ada
compliant
in
those
locations,
we
would
need
to
select
either
design
option
5
or
design
option
six
in
areas
where
there
is
more
space
in
the
right
of
way
for
a
shelter
and
to
maintain
ada
access
along
the
sidewalk.
C
Great
and
then
one
more
question
about
the
the
back
to
the
maintenance
topic
for
those
shelters
that
would
not
be
included
in
the
pace
program.
We
would
be
paying
one
way
or
the
other.
How
much
are
we
talking
about
there.
E
However,
if
there
are
any
issues
with
grading
where
the
slope
of
the
sidewalk
is
is
too
steep
for
a
person
using
a
wheelchair
to
access,
there
would
need
to
be
grading
improvements
or
if
the
sidewalk,
the
current
sidewalk,
has
cracks
and
is
broken.
That
would
need
to
be
replaced
as
well.
So
it
depends
on
current
site
conditions,
so.
C
E
That
is
something
the
staff
is
continuing
to
look
into,
and
so
until
either
sole
source
or
rfp
is
selected.
I
won't
have
the
final
cost
for
the
maintenance.
E
Yes,
and
so
that
is
something
that
we
could
do,
we
are
we're
doing
it
currently
with
the
coa
shelters.
It
would
be
a
part
of
the
pace
program
and
the
city
could
expand
it
to
the
shelters
on
the
cta.
Only
stops.
C
Right
so
I'm
talking
about
just
about
the
cta
only
stops
right
now.
Those
are
managed
by
coa
at
least
seven
of
of
the
12..
C
If
we
move
away
from
coa
would
we
have
to
go
with
another
third
party
to
manage
advertisement?
If
we
talk,
if
we're
installing
the
shelters
at
our
expense,
you
know
to
have
them.
You
know,
match
the
the
pace.
Shelters.
E
Yes
and
the
city
has
contracted
previously
for
advertisements
at
divi
stations
and
so
contracting
for
advertisements
at
the
cta.
Only
bus
shelters
would
be
similar
to
that
previous
program.
A
Further
from
me,
yeah
council
member
burns.
H
Hey
jessica,
I
was
just
wondering
if
there's
a
if
there's
a
list
of
ridership
for
all
of
the
the
bus
buses
bus
routes
in
in
the
city,
because
I've
heard
that
come
up
as
a
determining
factor
for
a
lot
of
issues.
So
I
think
just
especially
ones
that
run
through
the
foot
forward.
I'm
just
personally
interested
to
know
what
ridership
looks
like
at
each
of
those
routes
in
the
ward.
E
So
yes,
so
the
city
has
relationships
with
staff
members
at
cta
and
at
pace,
and
we
are
able
to
get
ridership
numbers
for
all
bus
stops
and
routes
in
evanston,
okay,
I'll
reach.
D
Oh
okay,
thank
you,
jessica.
I
also
just
want
the
similar
data
to
councilmember
burns.
You
know,
I
think
I
heard
you
say
that
the
data
is
available
by
stop,
which
I
think
will
be
really
important,
because
by
route
you
know
there
can
be
busy
routes.
You
know
such
as
the
93
that
runs
through
parts
of
my
ward,
the
fifth
award.
There
may
be
an
overall
busy
route,
but
really
which
stops
are
the
busiest
stops.
D
Yeah
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
the
the
biggest
thing
that
I
want.
I
had,
I
think,
councilmember
newsome.
I
got
the
question
answered
it's
about
five
thousand
dollars
per
stop
her.
G
A
Yes,
indeed,
thanks
jessica,
it's
really
helpful
to
have
this
thorough
overview
of
our
buff
shelter
situation
in
evanston,
so
to
to
review
what
I
think
we
are
saying
to
staff
that
we
would
support
our
entering
into
an
iga
with
pace
to
provide
bus,
shelters
and
bus,
shelter,
maintenance
at
the
pace.
Only
and
the
shared
pace
and
cta
bus
stops
and
and
all
the
you
know,
coordinating
and
for
the
location
and
the
public
engagement
piece
for
the
cta.
Only
bus
stops.
A
We
need
to
identify
a
funding
source
for
those,
and
there
was
a
mention
in
the
memo
and
from
jessica
about
the
rta
access
to
transit
program.
But
the
memo
indicated
that
that
might
not
come
through
in
time
for
us
to
have
the
bus
shelters
by
in
2022.
So
would
we
want
to
extend
the
contract
with
coa
for
another
year?
Is
that
I
think,
or
we
leave,
that
up
to
staff
when,
when
the
time
comes.
A
A
Apw
right
and
I
think,
there's
a
definite
agreement
with
staff
about
having
the
maintenance
for
all
the
bus
shelters
be
handled
by
the
same
contractor.
So
is
that
enough
direction
any
other.
B
It
is
it's
great,
but
we
did
since
we
did
an
accept
and
placed
on
file.
We
moved
in.
Second,
we
should
probably
take
a
vote.
Okay,.
H
I
just
want
to
understand
the
difference,
so
I
was
told
there's
some
igas
that
can
be
executed
administratively.
I
just
want
to
understand
the
difference
of
why
this
would
need
to
come
back.
Is
there
a
dollar
amount
associated
with
this?
Are
we
paying.
B
G
Do
we
need
to
take
an
action
here?
A
roll
call
on.
A
B
I
think
we
had
a
motion:
didn't
we
yeah
councilmember
wynn,
council
member
newsman,
aye
councilmember,
ravel,
aye
councilmember
burns
aye.
A
All
right,
and
so
now
we're
ready
for
item
p1
on
our
agenda,
and
I
am
going
to
be
recusing
myself
from
this
discussion
and
ask
my
immediate
predecessor,
council
member,
when
to
chair
this
part
of
the
meeting.
Do
you
want
to
come
up
here.
A
G
If
everyone
just
raises
their
hand,
you
know
that's
fine,
so
do
we
have
johanna?
Do
we
have
a
public
comment,
rp2.
D
Well,
first,
I
will
move
item
p2
for
discussion.
D
Or
I'm
sorry
yeah
p1.
So
I'm
sorry,
I'm
sorry
we're
still
on
p2.
Did
you
ask
that?
Because
we're
still
on
p2
or.
G
We
need
to
do.
We
need
to
call
the
role
for
introducing
it
and
no
no
okay,.
I
I
am
okay.
I
am
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
address
this
matter
and,
of
course
now,
I'm
speaking
from
the
memorandum
that
was
attached
to
the
packet-
and
so
my
concern
with
this
item
is
that
it's
really
it's
described
as
a
fee,
but
really
what
really?
I
What
I
think
is
contemplated
here
is
an
additional
property
tax
on
the
42
lake
front,
private
properties,
and
that
is
very
concerning,
because
that's
not
something
that
municipalities
don't
have
the
power
to
raise
assessments,
if
that's
done
by
the
county,
assessor,
and
so
I'm
concerned
number
one
that
this
is
really
a
tax
proposing
attacks
on
attacks
that's
already
in
place
and
that
it's
likely
in
a
request
for
an
unconstitutional
tax.
I
So
that
was
that
is
a
major
concern
and
you
know
I
know
that
our
lakefront
is
pretty
well
accessible.
We
have
beaches,
we
have
parks,
we
have
northwestern,
which
is
the
largest
private
landowner
in
the
city
along
the
lakefront,
and
I
don't
know
about
accessibility
with
northwestern,
but
I
know
they
don't
pay
any
property,
taxes
and
lake
front
owners.
I
Property
owners
already
pay
enormously
high
property
taxes
on
residential
property,
and
I
think
a
theoretical
proposal
to
raise
our
assessment
based
on
a
perceived
lack
of
public
access
is
just
a
non-starter
and
and
frankly,
if
there
were
higher
taxes
imposed.
My
understanding
is
that
under
illinois
law,
that
tax
would
probably
end
up
being
evened
out
over
all
of
evanston.
I
So
I
think
I
really
laid
this
out
in
my
memorandum
that
I
filed
with
the
with
the
clerk
today
and
so
in
in
more
detail
for
your
consideration,
but
we're
really
vigorously
opposed
to
anything
that
looks
like
an
additional
property
tax
or
a
fee.
I
I
don't
think
under.
I
don't
think
legally
you
can
impose
a
fee.
I
A
fee
is
something
where
the
municipality
provides
service
and
then
charges
the
the
person
who
is
seeking
the
service
a
fee
like
for
a
beach
token
or
for
parking
along
the
lakefront,
and
you
put
money
in
a
pay
box
to
rent
a
parking
space
for
two
hours
or
whatever.
It
is.
Those
are
fees,
but
this
is
not
a
fee.
I
This
is
this
is
proposing
a
tax,
and
so
I
just
wanted
you
to
know
that
we're
very
opposed
to
this
and
hope
that
there's
not
even
a
study
done
of
this.
I
do
think.
G
Up,
no
one
else
has
signed
up
all
right
that
that
completes
our
public
comment
on
p1.
So
now
I'm
opening
it
up
to
the
committee.
G
Yes,
okay,
councilmember
yeah,.
D
Yes,
I'm
sorry
this,
I
know
we
met
johanna,
councilmember,
revell
and
dave
stoneback,
and
I
met
about
this
a
few
months
ago.
I
I
think
it
slipped
that
this
was
coming
up
for
this
meeting.
I
I
actually
planned
on
inviting
a
speaker
to
discuss
this,
but
if,
if
I
may
in
lieu
of
that
speaker
present
a
short,
you
know
six
minute,
video
that
I
have
here.
D
If
I'm
able
to
share
where
the
the
speaker,
joe
minicozi,
who
is
a
a
public
planner,
I'm
sorry
he
is
a
a
certified
he's,
a
member
of
the
he's,
a
certified
public
planner
with
the
aicp.
D
G
Councilmember
reid
is
this
on
this
particular
topic.
D
D
Luke
or
or
whoever
is
running
the
zoom,
can
you
give
me
a
sharing
ability
and
when
I
say
me
not,
this
account
the
I
have
a
second
computer
that
is
not
with
the
screen
visible
or
where
I'd
want
to
share
this
from.
So,
if
you
can
give
that
a
second
davon
read
they'll
just
share.
I
D
You
know
if
the
issue
is,
I
was
muted,
so
I
think
now,
let's
meet
it
on
that
device.
So
here
let's
try.
K
Pay
any
revenue
you
must
be
against
public
buildings
like.
Why
would
we
ever
build
a
courthouse
or
city.
K
K
J
So
like
like
what
the
asheville
is
a
good
example
because
I'm
completely
surrounded
by
federal
forests,
I
went
out
mountain
biking
last
night.
It
was
super
awesome.
I
enjoy
living
here
to
go
out
and
do
that.
So
I
take
part
of
those
parks
now
pay
more
to
live
here,
to
have
that
facility.
So
we
did
the
land
value
analysis.
Well,
we
did
the
full
analysis
of
minneapolis,
but
we
were
looking
at
is
the
dirt
value
per
acres?
It's
just
dirt.
J
J
And
basically
like
the
executives
for
3m
and
all
the
fortune,
5
target,
they
all
live
out
here
and
they
drive
they'll
kick
the
highway
in
it's
the
it's,
the
high-end,
suburban
village,
that's
out
there,
but
we're
just
having
a
conversation
with
this,
the
staff
that
you
know
the
city
of
minneapolis-
and
I
just
put
this
out
there-
and
I
was
like
you
know
it
looks
a
little
weird,
but
the
dirt
in
downtown
wyzetta
is
the
same
value
as
downtown
minneapolis,
just
on
an
apple's
apple
standpoint,
and
I
think
it
was
paul
magoosh
that
is
a
planner
there
he's
like.
J
Oh
my
god,
you
just
proved
this:
the
county
ordinance
1983-22.
He
started
going
down
all
these
numbers.
I
was
like
what
are
you
talking
about
he's
like?
Well,
you
know
up
until
1983
the
county
had
a
policy
as
minnesotan.
You
know
everybody
should
have
access
to
the
lakes.
We're
a
lakes
place,
we're
all
in
this
together
very
minnesotan
attitude
and
they
changed
that
policy
to
privatize
the
edge
of
the
lakes
that
people
could
then
build
their
mansions
along
the
edge
of
the
lakes,
and
we
all
understand
the
cops.
J
The
concept
of
lakefront
or
oceanfront
property
right,
the
property
for
the
ocean
and
the
lake
doesn't
disappear.
It
just
slides
up
to
the
real
estate.
Next
to
it.
So
you
see
the
the
value
of
the
lake
slides
up
to
the
crust
along
the
edge
of
the
lake.
That
seems
fair.
It
seems
reasonable.
Well
what
happens
to
the
value
immediately
adjacent
to
that
most
people
don't
have
the
late
view.
So
therefore,
they
have
no
value
right,
so
you've
you've
taken
that
opportunity
of
value
and
pushed
it
into
the
edge.
J
Well
before
that
policy
changed,
these
two
lakes
are
publicly
accessible.
They
also
have
a
greenway
around
them.
There's
a
park
and
a
cemetery
there's
a
lot
of
public
amenity
around
that,
because
there's
more
people
in
the
public
that
have
access
to
it.
That
value
is
then
transferred
into
this
neighborhood.
You
see
the
dirt
value
in
this
neighborhood.
That
value
is
spread
like
butter
into
the
neighborhood,
as
opposed
to
just
sticking
all
your
butter
on
the
edge
of
your
crust.
You
know,
so
I
think
that,
as
we
talk
about
this
stuff,
the
university
has
costs.
J
J
University
for
paying
yes
harvard
is
a
valid
reality
of
business.
They
get
it.
So
I
think
that
that's
the
thing
is
is
that,
as
we
talk
about
this
stuff
universities,
hospitals
that
are
all
non-taxable
except
for
colorado,
hospitals
are
taxable
that's
kind
of
interesting.
You
know
it's
different
in
every
state,
but
but
these
are
needs
in
our
community
and
we're
all
experiencing
that
right
now
is.
J
I
want
to
make
sure
that
I
have
a
good
hospital
here
in
town,
especially
with
covid
going
on,
so
these
are
costs
of
community,
and
we
have
to
understand
that
we're
all
in
this
together
as
a
corporation,
so
those
amenities
are
necessary
and
there's
a
public
good
in
them.
How
do
we
make
sure
that
we're
getting
that
value
back
in
the
community?
Well,.
K
I
feel
like
too,
on
the
in
this
drawing
here
on
the
left
with
the
privatized
shoreline
in
minnesota.
We
still
have
a
requirement
that
all
lakes
are
public,
and
so
this
is
lake
minnetonka.
On
the
left.
There
are
public
accesses
on
the
lake
and
if
you
live
anywhere
in
the
state
of
minnesota,
you
can
go
to
that
public
access
and
put
your
boat
in
and
go
out
on
the
lake,
but
the
actual
shoreline
is
privatized.
K
So
there's
no
public
access
to
the
shoreline
and
on
the
right
with
the
channel
lakes
in
minneapolis,
you've
got
the
public
access
to
not
just
the
lake
itself
but
to
the
actual
shoreline,
and
what
that
does
is
it
creates
this
it?
It
radiates
the
wealth
of
that
green
space
back
for
blocks
and
blocks
and
blocks
into
the
neighborhood.
K
Now
all
those
neighborhoods
have
had
their
wealth
increased
because
of
that
public
amenity
you've
got
a
public
amenity
of
both
place.
It's
just
designed
differently,
and
so,
when
I
look
at
like
my
courthouse
here
in
town,
I
live
on
4th
street
in
brainerd.
When
I
go
out
my
front
door-
and
I
look
to
the
south
at
the
end
of
my
street-
is
the
county
courthouse
built
in
1930?
K
K
They
did
that
so
that
the
wealth
of
that
investment,
the
value
of
that
investment,
it
wasn't
just
utilitarian,
it
wasn't
just
functional.
It
was
actually
designed
to
make
everybody
around
it
wealthier,
because
now
we've
got
this
great,
like
landmark
in
the
middle
of
town,
the
new
county
building
is
kitty
corner
to
the
old
one.
G
Yes,
councilmember
reed.
Are
you
done
council
member
nusmo
would
like
to
make
a
new.
D
Comment,
I
just
wanted
to
start
there,
so
you
know
my
point
here.
Is
you
know
what
this
research
in
minnesota
in
hennepin
county
demonstrates?
Is
that
cutting
off
access
to
you
know
the
public
lake
front
has
a
negative
impact
on
the
wealth
that
is
spread
throughout?
D
You
know
the
metaphor:
there
is,
you
know
letting
the
butter
you
know
melt
throughout
the
community
as
opposed
to
keeping
it
to
the
crust,
and
I
you
know
the
the
request
here
is
that
we
produced
an
rfp
to
get
the
you
know,
proposals
for
what
a
study
might
cost
to
look
at
the
lost
revenue
to
the
city
and
the
lost
wealth
to
the
city.
Because
of
the
fact
that
we
have.
You
know
this.
The
number
of
properties
that
we
have
that
are
cutting
off
access
to
the
lakefront.
C
Thank
you
interim
chairwin.
I
appreciate
the
sentiment
yeah
the
progressive
sentiment
behind
this
and
looking
for
ways
to.
C
It's
no
secret
that
people
that
can
afford
to
live
on
the
lakefront
have
have
extra
wealth,
and
it
would
be
great
if
we
could
spread
that
wealth
around
a
little
bit.
I
think
on
the
merits
of
this
argument,
though
I
don't
think
we
have
a
strong
argument,
because
access
to
the
lakefront
is
not
an
issue.
C
We
do
have
ample
public
access
to
the
lakefront
with
our
many
beaches
and
the
lakefront
that
that
the
homeowners
are
on
is
not
necessarily
lake
front
that
the
public
would
want
to
have
access
to
it's
not
like
they're
sitting
on.
You
know,
30
yards
of
sandy
beach
that
actually
does
belong
to
the
public
and
the
public
should
enjoy
access
to
that's
not
the
case.
You
know
most
of
the
lakefront
homes
at
least
looking
at
at
google
earth
have
no
beaches,
and
so
there's
nothing
there
to
access.
C
C
So
I
I
am
not
in
favor
of
of
spending
money
going
down
this
this
path,
because
I
don't
think
it
would
ultimately
end
up.
I
don't
think.
H
H
H
So
that
is
a
question
I
would
have,
but
I
think
the
they
also
they
didn't
just
mention
beach
access
as
much.
It
was
lakefront
access,
so
there
was
also
talk
of
kind
of
open
area
and
bike
paths
and
other
you
know
public
benefit
and
amenities
that
that
that
that
that
could
be
provided
if
we
have
more
access
to
the
lakefront.
So
I
don't,
I
don't
think
you're
what
you
just
said
captures
the
full
argument,
and
that's
that's
really.
H
My
main
point,
I
I
don't
think
any
of
us
up
here
looking
at
this
for
maybe
an
hour
if
you,
if
you
did
before
the
meeting
and
if
not
the
ten
minutes,
the
five
minutes
of
the
video
are
gonna
know
where
to
come
down
on
this
issue.
More
than
a
harvard
grad
has
been
studying
this
for
years,
so
I'm
comfortable
with
exploring
a
lot
of
different
options,
including
a
a
real
kind
of
continued
conversation
about
a
pilot
agreement
with
northwestern
to
reclaim
revenue
that
our
city
needs
and,
depending
on
the
cost.
H
Again,
that's
not
provided
in
this
memo.
I
think
we
need
to
continue
to
look
into
opportunities
to
generate
additional
revenue
to
add
more
value
to
homeowners
across
the
city,
and
I
see
this
as
a
as
a
research
opportunity
just
to
learn
more
so
for
me,
it
really
is
going
to
come
down
to
cost.
You
know
how
much
are
we
talking
about
that
that
wasn't
provided
in
the
middle?
I
know
this
is
just
discussion,
but
I
would
hope
if
this
comes
back,
we
can
take
a
look
at
how
much
this
will
cost
us.
G
D
Okay,
yeah
to
those
points.
Yes,
you
know
councilman
and
thank
you
councilmember
burns
for
your
reflections
there.
It
is,
it
does
go
beyond
just
beach
access
again.
This
is
about
lakefront
access.
We
know
that
our
lakefront,
whether
it's
beach
or
not,
is
coveted
space.
As
we've
had
our
discussion
with
clark
square,
which
is
not
traditional
beach
land,
it
is
simply
lightweight
front
land,
which
is
still
very
valuable
and
the
the
thing
here
is.
You
know
I
agree.
I
mean
I
think
what
we're
asking
now.
D
Staff
is
asking
for
direction
to
go
out
for
an
rfp
to
get
proposals
for
this,
and
I
think
we
should
at
least
take
that
step
have
an
understanding
of
what
the
cost
might
be.
If
this
is
a
you
know,
a
400
000
project,
or
even
you
know
something
along
those
lines.
It's
certainly
not
worth
it.
D
But
if,
if
this
is,
you
know,
you
know
a
few
few,
tens
of
thousands
of
dollars,
maybe
100
000-
to
do
this
research
and
this
can
bring
in
you
know
this-
could
potentially
bring
in
a
significant
amount
of
revenue,
and
it
would
be
in
a
progressive
way
again
in
that
burden
on
folks
who
can
most
afford
it,
particularly
given
the
lost
revenue,
opportunities
for
the
city
and
the
lost
wealth
for
other
residents
that
may
be
generated
here.
I
know
councilmember
newsman
went
ahead
of
the
response.
Go
ahead.
C
So
I
guess
that
the
argument
is
like
we're
trying
to
get
people
to
pay
even
more
for
what
they're
already
paying
even
more
for
it's.
I
ran.
I
looked
at
a
couple
properties
at
random
properties.
There
was
a
house
on
the
lake
3
500
square
foot
house
immediately
on
the
lakefront
that
paid
last
year,
50
around
to
53
000
in
property
taxes.
C
There
was
a
larger
house
about
25
percent,
larger
4
983
square
feet
that
was
in
one
house
back
still
east
of
sheridan
road,
but
not
on
the
lakefront
that
paid
thirty,
five
thousand
I'll,
say
thirty.
Six
thousand,
if
I
add
back
in
the
exemption
in
property
taxes,
so
you
know
a
a
bigger
house
and
a
bigger
piece
of
property
paying.
You
know,
thirty
percent
less
in
property
taxes
like
the
lakefront
homeowners
are
already
paying
more
and.
A
C
D
Okay,
yeah,
if
I
can
just
okay,
so
I
thank
you
for
that
that
point
there
as
well
councilman
smith,
because
I've
done
a
slightly
deeper
analysis.
Of
course
we
know
that
those
folks
pay
a
you
know.
Their
overall
bill
is
fairly
substantial
right.
I
did
you
know.
Here's
an
example.
Folks
can
verify
these
numbers.
Sixth
mill
burn
place,
23
or
27
35,
north
sheridan
58.
D
You
know
these
are
several
addresses.
For
example,
yes,
they
paid
59,
000,
46,
000
property
taxes
for
their
total
property.
But
when
you
look
at
that
on
a
per
square
foot
bait,
so
then
you
look
at
the
lot
size.
You
know
45
000
square
feet,
17
000
square
feet.
When
you
look
at
the
per
square
foot
charge
or
the
per
square
foot
payment
they're
paying
less
than
folks.
D
In
my
ward
per
square
foot,
for
example,
one
property
that
pays
overall,
fifty
nine
thousand
dollars
for
property
taxes
pays
a
dollar
thirty,
seven
per
square
foot
of
of
just
land.
While
there
are
single-family
homes,
single-family
homes,
a
single-family
home
in
my
ward,
that
are
nowhere
near
the
lake
front
that
are
modest
homes,
for
example,
on
brawl
and
other
places
that
pay
more
than
that.
You
know
almost
two
dollars
per
square
foot
or
a
dollar
77
per
square
foot,
which
is
more
than
one
of
our
largest
wealthiest
properties.
D
G
D
G
All
right,
thank
you.
So
I
there
are
a
number
of
issues
that
I
have
with
this
this
proposal.
First
of
all,
the
materials
that
we
received.
I'd
like
to
address
that,
because
we
I
we
did
not
have
this
video,
which
I
think
is
already
incredibly
unclear.
G
But
the
materials
that
we
did
receive
were
was
an
article
written
by
a
summer
college
intern
that
looked
at
two
lakes
in
minnesota.
One
is
in
minneapolis
and
it
is
completely
surrounded
with
a
path
and
some
public
access.
G
That's
right
in
minneapolis,
the
other
one
was
another
lake
out
10
miles
outside
that
had
no
public
access
was
all
privately
owned
and
their
argument
in
this
which
they
admitted
was
flawed
because
there
were
many
other
variables
as
well
said
that
they
speculated
that
you
could
that
there
was
this
distinct
difference
in
land
values,
because
there
was
no
public
asset
access
to
that
lake
and
that,
but
they
didn't
provide
any
information
about
why
about
what
the
extra
fee
would
be
and
and
also
the
the
the
lake
in
minneapolis
was
entirely
and
had
a
complete
public
access
to
to
compare
this.
G
G
G
We
have
a
public
boat
launch,
we
have
paths
along
the
lakefront
and
and
their
argument
and
this
so
I
I
find
this
argument
not
at
all
on
point
to
what
we
have
here
in
evanston
I
mean
what
we
have
here
in
evanston
is
entirely
different,
so
I
would
not
be
the
least
bit
interested
in
hiring
a
consultant,
a
hundred
thousand
dollars.
G
I
mean
we've
had
objections
for
hiring
a
consultant
for
an
analysis
of
the
civic
center,
a
whole
complete
analysis
of
the
civic
center
programming
at
four
hundred
thousand
dollars
and
that
barely
passed
the
council,
a
hundred
thousand
dollars
for
a
consultant
to
look
at
42
properties
and
which
I
and
I
am
dead
certain
that
we
will
this.
This
has
a
litigation
risk.
That
is,
I
would
bet
you
one.
G
My
land
use
lawyer
chops
are
a
little
rusty,
but
I
do
question
whether
the
legitimacy
of
the
city
to
be
able
to
do
this.
The
staff
has
told
us
they
do
not
have
any
staff
to
work
on
this
and
rfps
council
member
reid
have
to
be
prepared.
I
mean
the
staff
has
said
they
are
overstretched
and
do
not
have
anyone
to
work
on
this
rfps
are
prepared
by
our
city
staff
and
then
they
would
have
to
analyze
all
of
the
the
responses
that
come
in
they're
not
cost
free.
G
So
to
me,
the
possible
return
that
we
would
get
from
looking
at
42
lakefront
properties.
What
are
we
going
to
do
charge
them
each
another
50
thousand
dollars?
I
I
to
me
is
really
I
I
don't
see
it
there.
The
cost-benefit
analysis
here
to
me
out
far
outweighs
doing
this
and
we
already
have
a
city
staff
that
says
they
do
not
have
the
time
to
undertake
this.
G
I
I
don't
think
councilmember
burns
that
we
can
try
and
talk
with
northwestern
about
about
more
of
those
issues
we
have
talked
and
talked
and
talked
with
them
over
the
years.
There
is
going
to
be
a
new
president
of
northwestern
coming
in
so
we
should
certainly
initiate
a
conversation
with
her,
but
our
history
with
them
is.
G
I
mean
we
are
certainly
on
a
on
better
footing
with
them
than
we
were
10
years
ago,
but
that
took
20
years
to
get
there.
So
I,
when
I
look
at
this,
this
is
a
really
tiny
amount
of
our
lakefront
overwhelmingly.
Our
lakefront
has
public
access,
so
the
idea
that
we
would
impose
this
fee
and
think
that
it
could
withstand
legal
attack
by
using
this
example
from
minnesota
they're,
not
even
saying
that
they
were
successful
in
minnesota.
This
paper
was
speculation
and
it
wasn't
a
harvard
educated
author
of
the
paper.
G
I
think
this
is
it
it's
a
nice
idea
to
think
about,
but
we
don't
have
time
to
just
think
about
stuff
like
this,
and
we
certainly
don't
have
money
or
staff
to
to
think
of
this.
We
have
a
lot
of
other
ideas.
Council,
member
reid.
You
have
a
lot
of
other
much
better
ideas
than
this
one
that
I
would
be
willing
to
support,
but
not
this
one.
G
D
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much.
I
just
want
to
my.
I
want
to
respond.
My
first
episode
with
my
point
of
information.
When
I
look
at
the
packet
I
didn't
receive,
and
I
don't
know
if
other
council
members
received
the
documents
you're
referring
to
about
the
unc
student
in
the
college.
Folks
who
are
whatever
those
documents
are
that's
not
in
the
packet
from
what
I
saw
and
someone
please
correct
me.
You
may
have
received
those
or
found
those
separately.
So
first
can
I
get
clarification.
G
G
There,
in
your
discussion
with
with
staff
before
this,
you
had
sent
them
a
copy
of
a
of
a
memo
that
was
written
by
someone.
No.
D
Okay,
I'm
not
sure
about
that,
but
what
I
can
say
is
you
know
this
is
not
something
that
was
just
studied
by
you
know
some
college
student:
this
is
you
know
this
serious
organization
of
you
know
joe
minokosi,
who
is
a
harvard
graduate
who
has
a
specialty
who's?
A
public
planner,
a
certified
public
planner
has
a
specialty
degree
in
real
estate
related
to
real
estate
has
backed
us
up.
D
I
do
want
to
say
that
yzeta
is
also
a
community
that
has
plenty
of
you
know,
I'm
looking
at
their
city's
website.
They
have
boat
launches
and
beaches,
and
you
know
fountains
and
fishing
and
gardens
and
outdoor
showers
at
their
lake
front
and
playgrounds
and
all
kinds
of
really
great.
D
You
know
water
sports
for
their
lake
front,
so
they've
got
you
know,
so
this
isn't
a
community
that
has
nothing
going
on
their
lake
front
either
they
they've
certainly
got
beaches
and
they've
certainly
got
public
access
on
their
way
front
too,
and
these
effects
are
still
witnessed
here.
You
know
I
I
could
see
that
one,
the
the
cost
of
a
hundred
thousand
dollars.
D
That's
you
know,
that's
also
a
number
I
just
threw
that
out
there
I
threw
out
a
couple
numbers
to
say,
but
you
know
we
don't
know
until
we
actually
get
the
rfps
back,
how
much
it
may
cost,
and
you
know
I
could
see
this
bringing
in
anywhere
between
you
know.
You
know
this
could
bring
in
a
substantial
amount
of
money
and
not
something
to
scoff
at
you
know
that
could
provide
funding
for
many
much
of
the
equity
work
that
we
want
to
do.
D
G
G
I
mean
I
I've
been
receiving
emails
all
day,
long
from
lawyers
saying
that
this
would
not
pass
legal
muster.
So
I
I
don't
I
mean
I
think,
I'm
not
willing
to
risk
litigation
for
something
without
having
any
sense
that
another
community
has
even
done
this
successfully.
I
mean
minnesota
has
not
undertaken
this.
D
Well,
I
mean
again.
D
I
don't
I
don't
know
if.
Why
is
that
a?
If
why
zetta
has
I
mean
it
seems
likewise,
that
it
would
be
a
community
that
that
may
not,
and
I
think,
if
we're
going
to,
of
course,
folks
who
are
wealthier,
who
live
on
the
lakefront?
Have
the
resources
to
try
to
protect,
you
know
their
wealth
and,
of
course
they
will
sue
if
they
feel
that
they,
you
know
their
their
interests
being.
G
Evanston,
I
don't
want
to
belabor
this,
but
as
fiduciaries,
which
we
all
are
here
on
the
city
council.
Part
of
our
job
is
to
protect
the
the
corporate
body
and
to
undertake
something
that
I
think
we
risk
litigate
serious
litigation
costs
for
on
the
hope
that
we
might
gain
more
revenue.
There
are
other,
better
ideas,
better
progressive
ideas
that
I
would
much
rather
spend
time
on
than
this
one.
G
So
I
know
I
I
think
that,
and
I'm
going
to
go
back
to
we-
the
staff
has
said
they
do
not
have
staff
for
this
rfps
take
weeks
to
prepare
by
city
staff,
so
our
our
city
staff
is
up
to
their
eyeballs
and
work
already,
and
I
am
not
willing
to
add
an
extra
layer
of
work
onto
them
for
a
really
speculative
amount
of
of
money.
G
I
mean
I'm
happy
to
do
rfps
for
affordable
housing
projects
for
traffic,
calming
efforts
for
things
that
have
clear,
concrete
value
to
our
community,
but
this
is
speculative
to
me
and
I
think
we're
really
risking
litigation
and
getting
ourselves
caught
up
in
something.
That's
that
that
is
that's
not
money
well
spent.
A
So,
council,
member,
when
council
member
burns,
has.
H
D
Expressed
is
not
as
much
from
staff
is
seeking
direction
to
issue
an
rfp.
H
H
What
is
the
process
for
this
body
to
generate
new
ideas,
which
then
could
in
turn
generate
new
sources
of
revenue
which
we
need,
so
that
can't
be
the
answer
every
time
we
have
to
figure
out
how
to
do
that
better,
and
I,
and
I
have
a
proposal
coming
up-
that
I
think.
G
I'd
like
to
see
that
council
member
burns,
but
I
do
think
that
we
do
have
to
do
some
kind
of
cost,
benefit
analysis
of
on
on
the
value
of
our
staff
time
and
recognize
that
when
they're,
but
that
you
know
we,
we
they
have
a
lot
on
their
plate
because
of
kovid
because
of
the
new
tiff
that
we
have.
We
just
put
into
place
for
a
number
of
other
programs
that
we
have
going
on
with
respect
to
affordable
housing.
G
I
think
that
you
know
that's
something.
We
need
to
get
more
information
about
our
the
capacity
of
our
staff
right
now,
and
I
don't-
and
I
don't
want
to
put
another
new
program
on
them
when
they
already
have
a
lot
going
on.
We
have
this
arpa
money
that
that
abs,
it's
real
money
in
the
bank.
You
know
in
our
bank
already
a
bank
account
already
that
we
need
to
manage
and
manage
as
an
investment
in
the
community.
G
That's
where
we
need
to
put
some
staff
and
and
see
where,
where
that
develops,
you
know.
H
No,
I
I
agree
right
now
I
mean
we're
we're
in
clearly
in
the
transition
period,
where
you
know,
staff
is
deciding
to
move
on
every
day
here,
so
we're
in
a
particular
position
right
now,
where
I
think
we
don't
have
the
staff,
I
guess
what
I'm
saying
is.
This
went
through
the
referrals
process.
H
As
far
as
I
understand
and
it
we,
the
answer
is
still
the
same:
that
right,
we
don't
have
the
staff
to
work
on
it,
so
I
think
I
think
we
need
to
find
a
better
process
to
determine
what
ideas
are
going
to
be
pursued
for
further
research
and
what
which
ones
aren't
and
right
now.
I
don't
think
we
have
that
it's
not
clear.
We
thought
it
was
a
referral
referrals
committee,
it
doesn't
seem
like
that's
the
case.
You
may
still
reach
a
dead
end
at
some
point
and
so,
but
but
again,
councilman
reed.
H
Just
what
I'm
interested
in
is
any
information
or
data
that
can
help
inform
future
conversations
about
pilot
agreements
or
anything
that
can
help
us
understand.
What
are
we,
what
are
we
losing
as
a
city
either
from
lack
of
access
to
our
lakefront
or
lack
of
property
taxes
paid
off
because
of
lake
from
property?
Which
I
understand,
is
it
it's
about
two
different
issues,
but
that's
what
I'm
interested
in?
I
really
want
to
understand.
H
What
are
we
losing?
Could
we
be
generating
more
in
a
in
a
reasonable
and
fair
manner
from
our
late
front,
if
we
made
some
some
adjustments
and
if
this
analysis
could
help
inform
some
of
those
future
conversations,
I
would
be
interested
to
know
just
what
the
price
would
be,
but
we
could
talk
about
that
further
offline,
but
I
probably
agree
this
probably
isn't
the
greatest
time
to
to
make
this.
D
Thank
you.
I
I
I
wanna,
so
the
memo
said
that
staff
does
not
have
the
time
to
do
the
actual
research,
and
so
I
want
to
ask
joanna
one.
This
referral
was
made
months
ago,
five
or
so
months
ago,
and
so
johanna
are
you
and
there
hasn't
seemingly
been
a
lot
of
turnover,
particularly
in
your
department
and
the
staff
that
would
be
working
on
this
kind
of
rfp.
D
In
fact,
we
bolstered
for
next
year,
some
of
the
staffing.
Is
it
your
understanding
that
your
staff
does
not
have
the
capacity
to
even
draft
an
rfp
to
have
someone
else.
Do
this
work.
B
So
I
think
when
we
talked
what
I
said
is
no
capacity
also
when
we
had
our
meeting,
I
said
no
capacity
in
terms
of
expertise.
That's
not!
We
don't
necessarily
have
staff
in
the
community
development
that
that
take
on
you
know,
tax
proposals
and
estimates
of
proposed
opportunities
missed
up
to
opportunity
costs.
That's
not
that's,
not
our
our
forte
in
the
community
development
department,
we
eliminated.
We
classified
a
position
last
year
in
community
development,
I'm
down
a
manager.
I
asked
for
that
position
to
be
added
back
in.
B
It
was
not
for
2022..
You
know
we
added.
We
had
permit
desk
staff,
because
the
problem
in
community
development
is
permit
desk
staff.
I
have,
I
think
this
is
across
the
board,
I'm
speaking
sort
of
generally
for
the
city.
I
guess,
is
it's
very
hard
to
find
people
do
these
jobs,
even
if
we're
recruiting
hr
has
to
do
a
lot
of
work
to
try
to
recruit
and
it's
you
know
all
these
little
things
that
that
they
add
up,
and
so
you
know
it's
been
a
it's
been
very
challenging
to
add.
B
More
staff
across
the
board
in
the
city
find
qualified
people
who
are
prepared
to
do
the
work.
We're
still
missing
a
lot
of
the
support
infrastructure
it
nationally
internationally
locally.
That
supports
people
to
go
back
to
work
to
be
in
person
for
work.
So
those
are
just
challenges
we're
experiencing
as
an
organization-
that's
not
just
limited
to
us,
so
we
could
draft
it.
There's
other
people
that
are
part
of
the
the
system
in
terms
of
reviewing
a
request
for
proposals.
B
B
But
it's
not
without
work
to
be
done,
and
the
staff
I
do
have
right
now
is
starting
to
undertake
the
comprehensive
plan,
and
I
do
think
this
is
exactly
the
kind
of
idea
that
could
be
added
into
the
comprehensive
plan
that
that
could
then
have
short,
medium,
be
part
of
a
short,
medium
or
longer
term
goal
to
address
some
of
the
equity
issues
and
distribution
of
wealth
and
lakefront
fees
and
other
opportunities
to
pursue.
This
is
exactly
the
kind
of
thing
that
I
think,
as
a
planner.
B
It's
it's
certainly
audible
to
try
to
think
about
how
do
we
level
the
playing
field,
but
I
would
much
rather
see
it
included
in
a
plan,
because
then
a
planned
document
increases
the
transparency.
So
so
somebody
isn't
caught
off
guard
on
december
13th
that
this
is
up
for
discussion.
A
planned
document
is
vetted.
It's
there's
community
meetings,
there's
discussions
before
it's
adopted.
People
have
seen
it
quite
a
bit,
and
so
that's
that's
a
this
would
be
a
great
opportunity
to
put
that
in
that
kind
of
document.
B
D
Oh
sorry,
if
I
could
just
distill
the
question
I
asked
there,
which
was,
I
heard
you
say
that
the
capacity
issue
was
in
part.
Yes,
you
are,
you
know
times
are
tough
and
everyone
has
a
tough
workload,
but
part
of
the
capacity
was
an
expertise
on
on
the
staff
which
is
expected.
We
don't
this,
isn't
something
I
do
every
day,
but
you
do
have
the
capacity
to
issue
the
rfp
for
this,
and
this
wouldn't
be
something
that
would
place
an
unduly.
D
You
know
an
an
overin
cumbersome
burden
on
on
your
staff.
B
I
would
say
to
some
extent:
yes,
because
we
just
we
just
don't,
have
it's
not
going
to
get
done
in
the
first
half
of
20
20
22,
because
I
have
other
things
that
are
in
the
queue.
I
have
staff
that
are
doing
double
duty
to
do
work
on
our
things,
because
we
don't
have
the
staff
to
do
that.
Yet
there's
fab's
supposed
to
work
37
and
a
half
hours
a
week.
B
So
I
just
want
to
be
clear
that
adding
more
work
does
not
does
not
necessarily
help
with
all
those
issues
and-
and
nobody
is
saying
no
to
these
opportunities.
I
think
we
like
to
do
these
academic
exercises
and
think
about
how
we
could
make
evanston
a
big,
better
place
and
be
a
be
a
leader
in
all
this.
But
we
just
it's
just
an
issue
of
prioritization
and
right
now.
B
The
staff
is
really
prioritizing
the
comp
plan,
because
that's
what
we
heard
from
the
budget
process
and
we're
really
excited
about
the
opportunities
to
include
things
like
this
in
that
proposal
and
where
that
could
take
us
and
be
an
award-winning
community
plan
when
it's
all
done.
G
So
I
mean
I
I
do
think
councilmember
reed.
As
I
said,
I
think
you
come
up
with
a
lot
of
interesting
ideas
when
I
listen
to
johanna.
What
I'm
hearing
her
say
very
very
politely,
is
her
staff
doesn't
have
the
capacity
to
do
this,
because
in
order
to
do
this,
then
other
things
are
going
to
put
to
the
side,
be
put
to
the
side
and
we've
already
decided.
G
H
If
I
could
just
say
one
last
thing-
and
I
would
just
say,
is
a
kind
of
a
rule
of
thumb
and
I
still
feel
the
same
way.
I
don't
think
this
is
the
greatest
time,
but
you
know
moving
forward.
Let's
make
the
first
response
hey.
This
might
be
a
great
idea
to
pursue
here's,
what
we
think
it
fits.
I
think.
Sometimes
the
immediate
response
is
a
defensive
one
and,
and
then
council
members
try
to
tear
someone's
idea
down
acting
as
though
they
researched
it
better
than
the
researchers
have,
which
we
know
you
haven't.
H
None
of
us
have
had
the
time
to
really
vet.
This
idea
fully,
and
so
I
think,
next
time
hey
this
is
this
might
be
something
to
look
into.
This
is
where
it
fits
right.
It
fits
within
a
comprehensive
plan
and
that's
some
work.
We
need
to
do
as
a
body
of
just
understanding
how
to
work
better
together
right.
Maybe
we
need
to
do
some
retreat
as
a
as
a
council,
but
because
I've
run
into
that
myself.
You
know
working
with
staff
and
working
with
my
colleagues
up
here
and,
and
we
this.
H
H
Might
be
something
here,
that's
worth
exploring
if
we
have
more
information,
if
we
have
this
the
staff
capacity
to
look
further
into
it,
etc,
not
to
say
councilmember,
when
you
know
some
of
your
remarks,
you
wouldn't
have
said
either
way,
but
I
think
we've
done
all
of
that
just
to
work
our
way
back
to
hey.
Maybe
this
has
a
place
in
you
know
a
comprehensive
planning
process.
G
It
might
very
well,
but
I
also
want
to
empower
the
staff
to
be
able
to
say
to
us.
We
don't
have
the
capacity
to
do
that,
because
I
think
that
we
as
a
council
are
generating
ideas,
but
we
are
there
in
a
really
difficult
position
to
say
to
say
to
us:
I
don't
have
the
capacity
to
do
that.
That
may
be
a
great
idea,
but
I
already
am
working
on
five
other
great
ideas.
So
I
that's
why?
G
H
And
I
understand-
and
I
I
I've
made
recent
concessions
because
of
you
know
what
joanna
knows
because
of
kind
of
the
lack
of
capacity
at
the
staff,
but
I
think
again
just
leading
with
hey
this
this
this.
This
has
some
merit:
here's
where
we
believe
it
fits
and-
and
it
doesn't
make
people
feel
as
though
it
will
never
get
worked
on,
because
the
balance
is
again
we're
here
to
do
our
job
right.
We
work
long
hours
too
right.
G
And
you
know
what
I
mean
anything
like
this
has
to
find
support
on
the
council.
Yeah.
H
Absolutely,
and
so
the
the
question
is
like:
how
do
we
know
when
it?
How
do
we
find
that
support
in
a
process
that
everybody
agrees
on?
Is
it
the
referrals
committee
process?
Is
it
some
other
process
that
says
you
know
what
this
is
idea
we're
willing
to
move
forward
with,
so
that
staff
understands
like
okay,
we're
at
a
point
now
where
we
have
enough
support
to
move
forward
with
this
idea,
we
haven't
figured
that
out.
H
H
G
Say
the
way
to
form
support
for
something.
That's
this
different.
An
idea
is
to
talk
to
each
other
council
member.
I
mean
that's
traditionally
what
has
happened
when
someone
comes
up
with
a
really
new
and
different
idea,
they
call
up
the
fourth
word
alderman
and
say:
can
I
I
want
to
run
this
past
you
before
I
present
it
to
see
if
I
can
get
any
any
support
for
this
at
the
council.
Call
you
up
and
say
I'm
thinking
about
this.
I
want
to
run
it
past.
You
give
me
your
feedback
on
it.
G
That's
that's
the
legislative
process,
that's
the
and
that's
something
this
council
hasn't
learned
yet,
but
I
think
that
when
we
start
doing
that,
especially
for
ideas
that
are
new
and
different,
that's
when
we
start
working
better
together.
So
I
don't
want
to
take
up
any
more
of
our
time.
I'm
going
to
turn.
D
If
I
can,
if
I
can
close
out
with
a
final
motion,
I
I
do
just
want
to
say
that
you
know
the
part
to
me
part
of
the
legislative
process.
Is
this
fact
gathering.
You
know
I
could
call
you
and
have
you
or
whoever
else
and
have
a
conversation
with
this,
but
until
we
actually
have
the
data
it's
hard
to
really
have
the
discussion
beyond
a
theoretical
level,
and
so
that's
what
this
request
was.
It
was
to
move
beyond
the
theoretical,
have
some
hard
data
as
far
as
cost,
then
beyond
cost.
D
You
know
if
we
went
forward
with
it
the
actual
data
and
what
the
lost
revenue
is
and
then
be
able
to
work
from
it
from
there
as
far
as
well
as
figuring
out
the
legal
implications
before
we
move
forward
with
this.
But
with
that,
I
I
see
that
right
now,
and
I
do
also
want
to
note
that
you
know
this
referral
was
made
five
months
ago
as
one
of
the
first
referrals
that
I
made
a
week
or
two
into
being
into
office.
D
So
at
this
point
it's
been,
you
know
almost
half
a
year
that
we've
had
to
prepare.
Just
a
single
rfp
and
to
go
through
that
process,
but
I
would
like
to
make
a
motion
to
table
this
to
june
and
bring
this
back
for
discussion
at
the
june
sixth
meeting
of
the
planning
and
development
committee.
H
G
Well,
this
is
an
item
for
discussion,
so
I
don't
know
whether
you
can
table
it.
I
I
don't
is
that
it
can.
It
be
table
council.
D
F
Good
evening
deputy
city
attorney,
michelle
observable,
I
can
take
a
moment
to
check
to
see
if
we
can
table
this.
I
know
that
the
goal
for
an
item
for
discussion
is
to
give
the
staff
give
is
to
give
the
staff
guidance
on
what
to
do
with
the
item
on
the
agenda.
So
I
will
just
double
check
to
see
if
that
can
be
tabled
or
if
we
need
to
vote
on
the
direction
for
staff
at
this
moment.
So
if
I
can
just.
H
Ahead,
I
think
another
thing
we've
seen
staff
do
is
come
up
with
an
estimate.
You
know
everything
doesn't
have
to
be
an
rfp,
but.
G
In
terms
of
staff
time
or
the
reason,
the
how
much
a
consultant
would
cost.
H
G
H
I
understand
but-
and
I
guess
to
councilman
newsman
and
I
just
want
to
be
clear-
you
have
some
people
who
don't
want
to
see
this
even
discussed
any
further,
but
then
we've
also
heard
this
may
have
a
place
in
the
comprehensive
planning
process.
So
I
think
that's
what
I
need
to
get
clear
on
before
I
decide
how
to
vote.
This
is
either
something
that
you
know.
My
colleagues
are
saying,
has
no
merit
at
all
and
won't
support
it
under
any
circumstances.
H
C
Is
there
another
way
to
address
these
issues
if
we
do
a
little
bit
more
thinking
and
you
know,
pull
back
our
focus
and
we're
not
we're
not
talking
just
about
a
an
access
fee
there.
Might
you
know
there
there's
more
to
the
discussion
than
yeah
that
I
I'm
sure
we
would
all
learn
from
yes,.
B
The
two
of
you
we
have
started
okay,
so
I
have
been
collecting
in
a
spreadsheet
some
of
these
sorts
of
things
that
have
come
up
that.
I
that
I
think
everyone's
trying
to
hear
that
I
have
a
refrain
of
how
about
the
comp
plan,
how
about
the
comp
plan,
so
I
could
also
put
this
in
that
spreadsheet
and
or
we
could
create
a
google
shared
document
that
council
members
could
start
to
put
ideas
into
this
as
they
come
up.
Maybe
that's
another
option,
so
everyone
could
see.
B
What's
going
on,
we
have
in
the
past
brought
I.
The
direction
has
been
to
revisit
an
item
at
a
later
date.
We
could
put
it
on
for
some
time
in
in
june.
If
that's
that's
the
desire,
I
mean
any
of
those
things
can
happen.
I
know
it's
late
and
I
know
there's
other
events
coming,
so
I
want
to
be
mindful
of
the
time.
F
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
again
good
evening,
deputy
city
attorney.
Michelle
observable.
F
I
did
get
a
chance
to
take
a
look
at
procedurally
how
this
would
proceed,
so
the
committee
would
have
the
option
to
table
this
to
a
date
certain.
However,
it
would
be
tabled
for
further
discussion,
so
that
would
be
so.
If
you
do
want
to
table
it
for
discussion,
you
can
do
so.
It
will
be
table
for
further
discussion
for
that
date.
Certain.
So
thank
you
for
giving
me
that
opportunity
to
look
into
that.
Okay,.
G
So,
council,
member
reid,
did
you
want
to
make
a
motion
to
table
it
to
for
discussion
to
that
date?
Certain
of
june
6th.
D
Yes-
and
I
just
want
to
confirm-
is
that
the
regularly
I
forget
if
it's
the
the
first
or
second
monday
in
a
month
that
these
meet.
D
D
Yeah,
okay,
okay,
so
yeah,
so
that
would
be
the
first.
So
actually
I
will
june
13th
is
the
second
monday
in
in
june,
so
I
will
table
in
until
june.
13Th.
D
B
C
We
don't
have
to
vote
on
the
motion
to
table
to
a
date
certain.
D
I
moved
to
hold
this
to
the
next
meeting
and
we'll
have
another
member
here
at
the
next
meeting
that
can
make
the
final
determination
won't
have
a
tie.
Then.
G
For
lack
of
a
second,
the
motion
fails,
so
I
am
going
to
turn
this
back
over
to
councilmember
revell,
to
resume
chairmanship.