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From YouTube: City Council Briefing (1/24/2022)
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A
A
With
that
said,
we'll
go
ahead
and
get
this
january.
24Th
council
briefing
going
it's
5
30
on
monday
evening.
We
do
have
three
topics
that
we'd
like
to
discuss
with
council
this
evening.
A
The
first
item
that
we
would
like
to
talk
about
is
the
one
that
was
brought
up
at
the
last
city
council
meeting,
which
was
a
which
is
regarding
remote
participation
in
council
meetings.
You
should
have
all
received
an
email
earlier
in
the
day
that
contains
some
council
member
stokes
had
reached
out
with
a
handful
of
questions
and
based
on
the
questions
that
he
was
asking.
We
felt
it
would
be
important
to
have
that
information
in
the
hands
of
all
the
different
council
members.
A
We've
tried
to
supply
you
with
some
other
information
regarding
what
other
communities
are
doing
for
virtual
participation
in
meetings
either
by
their
council
or
by
their
boards,
and
for
this
particular
item,
we're
looking
to
receive
some
direction
as
to
how
you
would
like
us
to
move
forward
if,
at
all,
with
regards
to
development
of
a
policy
for
remote
participation,
city.
A
Well,
she's,
the
one
who
drafted
the
attachment
that
you
have
to
the
to
the
memo
for
discussion.
She's
also
done
some
of
the
research
with
her
legal
assistant
to
find
out
what
the
other
organizations
around
the
state
of
florida
are
doing.
So
with
that
I'll
open
it
up
to
any
conversation
or
discussion
or
questions
that
you
may
have
of
the
staff
to
get
this
ball
rolling.
B
Yes,
I
just
want
to
say
that
if
a
council
member
can't
attend
a
meeting
for
unforeseen
reasons,
I
personally
don't
see
a
problem.
If
it's
virtual,
we
do
right
now
in-person
meetings,
library
board
committee
boards
and
if
you
can't
attend
because
you're
you
have
something
going
on
health-wise
or
something
else,
you
could
attend
a
meeting
by
buy
a
zoom
and
you
could
still
vote
on
it.
So
those
are
just
my
two
cents
and
I'll
just
wait
to
see
what
my
colleagues
say.
C
When
things
were
shut
down
during
quarantine,
I
felt
like
we
couldn't
have
the
board
of
adjustment
meetings
because
of
the
nature
of
their
votes.
Are
there
any?
Is
it
quasi-judicial
or
quasi
legislative?
Are
there
any
restrictions
on
the
types
of
votes
that
can
be
taken
remotely?
Because
I
know
that
was
something
that
held?
I
think
it
was
the
board
of
adjustment
that
was
held
up.
Can
somebody
refresh
my
memory.
A
Yeah
this
this
was
an
issue
that
was
a
lot
of
communities
were
struggling
with
were
votes
that
dealt
with
quasi-judicial
decision-making
of
either
an
appointed
board
or
the
city
council
itself.
Out
of
an
abundance
of
caution,
there
were
a
lot
of
jurisdictions
that
were
deferring
quasi-judicial
actions,
specifically
because
quasi-judicial
is
seeking
input
from
the
public.
A
There
was
a
concern
that
members
of
the
public
would
not
have
been
able
to
participate
in
a
virtual
fashion.
That's
a
little
different
in
terms
of
what
we're
talking
about
when
we're
talking
about
the
actual
board
members
not
being
in
the
actual
room
where
the
where
the
physical
quorum
is
being
held.
So
this
isn't
anything
that
I
think
is.
I
don't
think
this
is
going
to
be
the
same
type
of
an
issue
that
the
board's
faced.
But
you
are
correct.
A
D
Yeah,
that's
right
for
quasi-judicial
what
the
legislature
included
in
our
enabling
statutes
was
some
permission
to
defer
those
proceedings
so
that
the
time
limits
would
not
count
against
the
applicants.
So
everything
was
suspended
without
any
harm
to
the
applicant
until
such
time
as
those
meetings
could
be
met,
convened
in
person
as
time
went
on.
However,
more
authority
was
granted
by
the
state
so
that
the
applicant
could
place
his
application
before
the
body.
His
his
request
before
the
body
and
testimony
could
be
taken
electronically.
D
So
there
was
an
evolution,
but
initially
the
way
the
state
dealt
with.
It
was
to
give
us
permission
to
defer
those
applications
without
there
being
any
harm
to
the
applicant
or
adversely
affecting
the
locality,
because
in
some
instances,
if
a
decision
wasn't
made
within
a
certain
period
of
time,
it
was
an
affirmative
deficit
decision
for
the
applicant.
So
those
things
helped
us
a
lot
deal
with
those
issues.
But,
as
I
stated,
it
was
an
evolved
process
rather
than
one
that
was
a
perfect
fit
right
out
of
the
gate.
C
Thank
you
and
I
I
I
like
that,
we're
looking
at
this
and
I
do
support,
I
do
support
it
and-
and
I
think
it's
interesting
or
I
guess
it's
good-
that
it
has
the
quorum
is
required
to
be
in
person.
So
I
guess
that's
that's.
The
big
difference
between
a
fully
virtual
quasi,
quasi-judicial
action
versus
just
one
person
is
virtual.
So
thank
you
for
clarifying.
F
I've
got
some
major
concerns
with
it.
For
numerous
reasons,
you
know:
how
do
we
determine
what
if
it's
an
illness
I
mean
or
what
the
situation
is?
Do
we
need
to
see
a
doctor's
note
from
the
person
if
somebody's
traveling
and
can't
make
it?
You
know
what
what's
going
to
end
up
qualifying
for
this?
My
concern,
if
it's
a
health
matter
that
we
have
hip,
we
might
have
some
hipaa
problems
that
we're
running
into
if
we're
asking
to
them
to
prove
that
they're
that
they're
sick,
you
know,
I,
I
think
that.
F
If
it
happens
once
or
twice,
but
obviously
our
first
attempt
did
not
go
very
smoothly,
not
being
not
being
there,
you
can't
light
your
light
to
show
that
you
want
to
speak
it
just
doesn't.
It
makes
the
meeting
not
flow
as
as
it
should.
I
also
think
that
if
you're
on
council
and
you're
voting
you
should,
if
the
residents
are
there,
you
should
have
to
look
them
in
the
eye
and
and
and
vote
accordingly.
F
I
I
don't
know
where
I
am
on
somebody
making
comments
during
a
council
meeting
without
voting.
I
just
think
the
whole
thing
is
not
a
good
idea,
we're
opening
a
can
of
worms.
If
you
have
multiple
people
out,
then
you're
gonna
have
to
figure
out
a
way
through
a
conference
call
and
figure
out.
There's
there's
just
a
lot
of
details.
That's
going
to
cause
that's
going
to
cause
problems
with
that.
I
just
I
just
don't
think
it's
a
good
idea.
F
If
we
do
go
down
this,
you
know-
maybe
maybe
one
meeting
or
something
I
guess
we
can-
or
maybe
two,
but
I
definitely
would
not
go
any
further
than
that,
because
you
might
get
somebody
that
has
on
you
know
a
chronic
illness
that
you
know
are
they
and
they're
in
the
hospital.
Are
they
there
for
a
year
remotely
and
never
have
to
face
the
public?
I
mean
I
just.
I
just
have
a
lot
of
questions.
F
I
don't
really
have
answers
to,
and
I
I
had
a
couple
more,
let
me,
but
that
those
were
some
of
the
other
ones.
F
There's
there's
a
lot
more
that
we
need
to
do
on
this
subject,
but
I
think
we're
we're
going
down
a
path
that
could
really
cause
us
some
some
problems.
Thank
you.
G
So
I
kind
of
have
some
of
the
concerns
that
that
corey
has
one
of
them
that
he
brought
up
was
a
duration
in
the
in
the
draft
that
I'm
that
was
presented
to
us.
It
doesn't
address
that
at
all.
I
did
some
research
on
my
own
and
I
found
one
municipal
code
that
was
written
for
the
I
guess.
It's
the
sam,
the
city
or
town
of
mount
lake
terrace,
washington
and
theirs
was
this
was
well
done.
G
I
think
it
because
it
talks
about
remote
attendance
under
emergent
circumstances
and
they
do
address
they
address
duration,.
G
That
was
weird,
and
so
it's
pretty
in-depth
and
their
code.
I
can
share
it
with
with
you
mike
and
then
you
can
send
it
to
the
rest
of
council
members.
G
If
I'm
under
some
kind
of
medication
or
something
to
that
effect,
there's
you
know,
I
think
about
it
in
terms
of
of
my
prior
employment,
if
you're
not
able
to
attend,
you
know
you
have
to
you,
have
to
provide
a
reason
to
the
employer
as
to
why
you
can't
be
there,
and
these
are
some
of
the
issues
that
are
that
are
going
to
come
up
with
something
like
that.
G
I
do
think
that
attendance
remotely
is
is
a
good
thing
under
the
right
circumstances,
like
covid
was
a
perfect
example.
I
mean
that
I
didn't
have
much
of
a
choice
then,
and
there
may
be
examples
where
we
don't
have
much
of
a
choice,
but
I
think
this
needs
to
be.
B
B
I
personally
don't
want
to
me
miss
any
of
the
council
meetings,
so
I
try
to
do
them
when
there's
a
briefing,
because
I
could
do
it
remotely
and
it's
very
convenient.
Now.
If
I
was
to
go
out
of
town
and
let's
say,
there's
a
council
meeting
and
I'm
missing
out,
I
could
say
mike
mayor,
I'm
not
going
to
be
there
can
I
participate
remotely,
and
I
think
this
is
where
council
will
agree
say:
yes,
you
can
or
no
you
can't
now.
If
I
was
sick.
Obviously,
let's
say
god
forbid.
B
I
have
cancer
and
I'm
going
through
chemo
treatment
and
I
have
to
miss
a
couple,
and
this
is
where
I
would
like
to
participate
remotely,
but
on
number
six
on
the
drafts,
I
think
those
are
pretty
legit
excuses.
If
someone's
out
of
town,
then
I
guess
it's
either
on
them
or
on
us
to
to
agree.
If
we
allow
the
council,
member
or
the
mayor
to
participate
remotely,
thank
you.
F
Yeah,
you
know,
I
think,
we're
also
getting
into
a
situation
where,
if
the
council's
gonna
have
to
approve
that
that
person
can
that
their
excuse
is
acceptable,
that
it
could
potentially
buy
us
some
votes
that
that
could
potentially
be
a
problem.
But
you
know
we
were
able
to
do
this
because
there
was
a
state
of
emergency
for
covid.
F
We
all
did
it.
I
think
there's
just
going
to
be
too
many
technical
issues
from
a
if
you
have
some
people
there
and
then
some
people
not
there.
If
you
have
three
people,
if
you
have
three
people
absent
trying
to
trying
to
do
it
remotely
it's
just
not
it
isn't
going
to
work.
It's
going
to
be
it's
going
to
be
a
disaster,
so.
F
G
Yeah,
so
also
in
this
code,
that's
presented
by
mount
lake
terrace,
they
talk
about
anybody
that,
under
emergent
circumstances,
anyone
that
that
attends
remotely
they
have
to
they
have
a
whole
list
of.
When
I
say
a
whole
list,
they
got
four
items
and
two
of
the
items
which
are
of
concern
for
me
is
that
the
member
already
is
able
to
receive
electronic
or
otherwise
materials,
while,
while
they're
attending
remotely
that
way,
if
there's
an
email
or
something
that
has
to
be
presented,
that
the
person
that's
missing
can
receive
that
email.
G
Also,
they
require
you
to
have
attendance
in
person
whether
it's
zoom
facetime
skype,
whatever
it
is
in
case
exhibits,
are
presented.
H
I
understand
a
lot
of
the
concerns,
but
I
think
one
technology
alleviates
some
of
them
like
the
one
that
mr
jansen
just
noted,
that
it's
relatively
easy
to
note.
Any
of
the
new
information
that's
presented
to
counsel
on
the
dais.
H
I'm
okay
with
this
amendment
with
this
policy,
as
long
as
we
are
really
looking
at
does
the
individual
who
cannot
attend
have
a
medical
issue
is
not
able
to
attend
for
a
reasonable
health
concern
and
the
other
ones.
I
really
liked
how
neptune
beach
framed
their
criteria,
so
I
would
agree
with
the
criteria
that
says
if
I'm
out
of
town,
because
I
have
to
go
to
a
conference
for
work,
I
shouldn't
be
able
to
attend
remotely.
You
know
I
I'm
perfectly
fine
with
that.
The
it's
you
know
it's,
it's
not
a!
H
I
have
the
option
to
not
attend
a
conference
or
attend
a
council
meeting,
and
I
make
that
decision
which
one
I'm
going
to
choose,
but
if
one
is
deciding
to
not
attend
a
council
meeting
because
of
a
specific
issue
and
that
would
be
health,
then
I
would
hope
that
we
would
have
grace
enough
to
understand
that
an
individual
who's
not
attending
because
of
a
health
issue
truly
is
not
attending
because
of
a
health
issue,
but
still
wants
to
participate,
because
this
individual
still
has
a
lot
to
contribute
to
the
conversation.
H
So
when
we
look
at
whether
individuals
should
be
able
to
participate
remotely
or
not
participate
remotely,
we
should
be
looking
at
it
not
at
the
convenience
of
the
individual,
but
as
the
what
our
jobs
are
and
it's
to
represent
our
constituents
and
we
want
to
be
able
to
represent
our
constituents
and
our
reference.
Our
constituents
want
us
to
be
able
to
represent
them
through
whatever
means
is
possible.
H
So
I
would
I
am
in
support
of
this.
I
don't
think
it's
a
slippery
slope,
I
don't
in,
and
we
have
a
very
or
some
of
the
the
framework
here
is
very
restricted.
So
it's
because
I'm
not
going
to
sit
home
and
watch
the
stanley
cup
of
the
playoffs.
So,
oh,
I
can't
make
the
council
briefing
so
sorry
I'll
participate
remotely
and
you
know
like
I'm
logged
in
and
I'm
watching
the
hockey
game.
That
is
not
what
this
is
for.
H
This
is
for
something
that
I
truly
cannot
be
for
whatever
for
a
health
reason.
I
cannot
be
in
the
chambers
at
the
time
for
the
meetings,
so
I
am
an
agreement
with
the
with
letting
people
to
participate
remotely
within
a
restricted
criteria.
I
Well,
I
want
to
thank
mike
and
and
sandy
and
the
other
in
the
city
clerk
for
answering
my
long
list
of
questions
ahead
of
time
and
thank
you
to
for
providing
those.
I
asked
most
of
them
early,
so
two
things
that
I
want
to
bring
up.
I
am
I'm
against
6a
physical
or
mental
impact
due
to
arising
from
covid.
It
is
if
they
have,
they
have
a
mental
impact
from
kovid.
They
probably
shouldn't
be
voting.
I
A
mental
impact,
probably
is,
is
not
a
good
good
idea
to
have
somebody
any
sort
of
mental
impact.
Probably
don't
want
that
person
voting,
and
I
just
think
that
you're
getting
a
little
bit
too
specific
on
coven
19..
This
is
supposed
to
be
like
a
long
reaching
document
right.
It's
not
a
it's
going
to
be
it's
an
ordinance.
I
think
right,
it's
an
ordinance,
so
it's
going
to
be
in
in
our
codes
for
a
while.
I
I
don't
think
we
need
to
specifically
cite
covet
19..
I
I
think
that
a
health
related
matter
covers
that
and
I
noticed
not
everyone
covered
coven
19,
specifically,
I
think
health
related
quote.
So
here's
here's
a
thought-
and
it
kind
of
is
my
idea
to
bring
both
ideas
is.
Is
it
possible
to
allow
attendance
at
the
meeting
remotely,
but
that
person
just
doesn't
isn't
able
to
vote
on
their
non-voting
member
in
attendance?
I
I
don't
know
but
to
me
that
that
somewhat
solves
the
issues
that
I'm
hearing
of
that
person
voting,
but
then
they're
also
in
attendance,
so
they're
getting
to
to
absorb
the
knowledge.
When
I
had
coveted,
I
was
on
the
briefing,
but
I
didn't
speak
up
just
because
I
my
screen
was
black
and
honestly,
I
wasn't
feeling
great.
I
didn't
think
that
I
should
be
speaking
up
because
I
was
suffering
those
mental
impacts
of
covet.
I
So
that's
maybe
my
idea
is,
is
if
you're,
if
you've
got
a
very
health
related
matter
or
something
like
this,
you
can
still
be
a
part
of
the
body,
but
maybe
not
a
voting
part
of
I
don't
know.
If
that's
allowable,
I
didn't
see
anything
in
our
charter
about
it.
I
didn't
see
anything
in
our
codes
about
it,
so
that
would
be
my
thought
to
make
it
both.
I
F
Got
you
hey
sorry?
I
was
just
going
through
a
couple
of
these,
so
you
know
if
you're
looking
at
6a,
you
know
mental
impacts
are
very
hard
to
define.
If
somebody
just
doesn't
want
to
be
in
public.
You
know
I
it's.
I
think
it
is.
I
disagree
with
councillor
dumont
that
our
residents
want
people
in
attendance.
I
mean
that
they
just
want
us,
no
matter
what
to
be
able
to
participate.
I
think
you,
if
you
asked
a
lot
of
residents
they
would.
F
Their
expectation
is
that
we
show
up
in
person,
be
health,
related
matters
or
issues.
F
You
know,
a
lot
of
people
are
utilizing
health
related
matters
to
obtain
medical
marijuana
licenses
other
stuff.
That
so
is
anxiety,
is
you
know,
there's
got
to
be
you?
Could
you
could
come
up
with
many
health
related
issues,
d,
where
it
says
family
or
personal
matter
or
issue
requiring
a
member's
full
attention?
F
If
the
member
is
devolving
is
giving
their
full
attention
to
a
family
or
personal
matter,
they're,
that's
their
full
attention.
They're
they're
they're,
not
giving
the
proper
attention
to
necessarily
to
their
council
responsibilities.
H
Thank
you.
I
think
I
on
well
from
what
I
know
the
council
on
this
may
be
not
fully
accurate.
I
have
had
the
most
medical
and
surgical
issues
among
all
of
us,
so
what
I
am
how
I
look
at
this
is:
there
have
been
times
where
I
could
not
be
in
an
environment
where
I
could
be
exposed
to.
H
Communicable
diseases
because
I
needed
to
have
a
future
treatment
and
that
in
itself
is
not
finite,
so
I
just
have
to
get
through
a
certain
specific
period
to
be
able
to
get
through
my
treatment
to
be
able
to
then
carry
on
with
life,
and
so
now
I
get
to
hang
out
with
you
guys.
So
I
think
what
what
we're
really
looking
at
is
what
should
be
the
framework
and
the
time
span
for
what
we
allow
remote
participation.
H
H
H
We
know
of
times
when
council
members
have
missed
numerous
meetings,
never
mind
briefings
during
their
term
of
service,
with
no
repercussions
and
the
remote
access
allows
the
participation
that
really
adds
to
the
conversation.
We
want
to
have
more
voices
versus
less
voices,
and
I'm
saying
this
again
as
the
person
on
this
council
who
has
probably
had
the
most
in
medical
bills
of
anyone
here.
H
I
think
we
need
to
be
careful
with
regard
to
how
we
want
to
exclude
or
include
participation,
because
participation
doesn't
necessarily
mean
mental.
It
could
just
be
you
can't
be
an
environment
where
germs
are
are
floating
around,
because
that
will
slow
down
the
ability.
If
you
get
a
treatment
that
you
need
in
the
future,
so
you
need
to
take.
H
You
know
two
three
weeks
away
from
that
kind
of
environment
I
am,
I
am,
I
think,
a
lot
of
people
who
have
had
medical
issues
in
their
lives
are
very
open
and
understanding
to
that
kind
of
an
allowance.
G
Well,
I
think
you're
kind
of
making
my
point
from
the
very
beginning
that
there's
no
duration
that
was
put
on
there
whatsoever
and
you
can't
just
say
that,
well,
I'm
afraid
I
might
get
coveted.
So
I
think
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
be
remote
for
the
rest
of
my
term
there.
I
think
there
needs
to
be
a
framework
in
place,
and
that
was
the
point
I
was
making
earlier
and
also
when
I
look
at
something
like
6b
health,
related
matter
or
issue.
That's
too
ambiguous
for
me.
G
G
We
all
have
obligations
to
our
careers,
whether
it's
city,
councilor
or
you're,
you're,
an
officer
you're,
a
teacher,
my
wife
can't
say:
well,
you
know
I'm
afraid
I
might
get
coveted.
So
what
I'm
going
to
do
today
is
I'm
going
to
teach
the
class
remotely.
She
can't
do
that.
She
has
to
be
in
front
of
in
front
of
those
kids
same
with
officers.
They
don't
have
the
option
as
a
first
responder
to
say
I
think
I'll
just
work
remotely
today.
G
The
framework
I
think
there
needs
to
be
a
framework.
I
think
we
should
address
remote
appearances
again.
I
think
it
needs
to
be
emergent
circumstances
and
then,
of
course,
the
question
begs
is:
who
makes
that
determination?
Is
that
the
city
manager
and
the
city
manager
and
the
mayor
or
a
combination
thereof
or
is
it
brought
in
front
of
the
council
and
then
you're
back
to
what
councilor
nichols
said,
you're
you're
dealing
with
hypno
matters?
G
I
know
at
jso
if
you
had
an
issue
health-wise
that
prevented
you
from
doing
your
job.
You
had
to
present
that
to
somebody
in
order
for
you
to
get
the
exception
not
to
do
your
job,
I
know
with
duval
county
schools.
If
you're,
if
you've
got
covenant
and
you
want
covet
lead,
you
got
to
prove
that
you
have
covet.
You
have
to
provide
that
test,
so
you
know
there's
a
lot
of
work
that
needs
to
be
done
in
this
draft.
F
Yes-
and
you
know
what
council
member
dumont
the
way
she
stated
is,
I
have
absolutely
no
doubt
that
she
would
put
every
effort
into
attending
meeting
if
she
felt
she
was
capable
of
being
there.
That
no
question
about
that,
but
we're
making
decisions
based
on
all
council
members
going
forward.
And
if
you
look
in
the
past,
you
know
there
there's
been
people
that
have
have
missed
substantial
amounts
of
meetings.
Not
on
this
group,
not
recently,
you
know
seven
eight
years
ago,
I'd
be
concerned
about
you
know
I
I'm
leaning
towards.
F
If
I
would,
if
I
was
going
to
approve
this
or
would
be,
you
know
more
along
the
lines
of
two
meetings
maximum
in
a
row
now
the
other
thing
that
council
member
do
not
dumont
brought
up
was
being
able
to
see
things
with
remote
access,
so
obviously
the
remote
access
that
we
utilize
at
the
previous
meeting
was
through
a
conference
call
that
was
voice
only,
and
I
think
that
would
cause
some
problems,
because
if
somebody
did
first
present
schematics
in
the
in
the
meetings
that
that
person
would
not
necessarily
be
able
to
see
certain
presentations,
you
know
I
well.
F
I
think
that's
something
that
we
would
need
to
define
that
it
would,
if
it's
going
to
be
on
a
conference,
call
how
we're
going
to
do
it.
If
we're
going
to
do
it
as
a
virtual
meeting,
where
some
people
are
there,
some
people
are
not,
I
think,
that's
going
to
get
challenging,
but
I
would
I
would
lean
towards
coming
up
with
a
way
to
do
it
virtually
as
opposed
to
just
to
a
just
through
voice.
Only.
B
D
Yes,
sir,
I
would
consider
that
a
health
health
issue,
and
so
under
provision
6b
if
you
chose
to
participate
and
vote
remotely.
I
would
point
to
that
section
as
your
authorization.
I
think
there
are
two
there.
There
are
a
lot
of
great
points
that
have
been
made
here
and
there
is
a
lot
of
room
where
the
resolution
can
be
changed
and
improved,
but
I'd
like
to
bring
your
attention
to
the
provisions
that
really
sort
of
they
exist
in
my
draft.
D
They
exist
in
the
neptune
or
resolution,
but
this
part
could
easily
change
and
give
you
all
a
little
bit
more
control
over
those
circumstances
under
which
you
permit
the
participation
from
a
remote
location.
D
D
The
reason
I
provided
the
virginia
statute
is
some
of
the
concerns
that
were
discussed
here
are
are
resolved
in
some
ways
by
that
statute,
there's
a
limitation
on
the
number
of
meetings
in
any
calendar
year
that
you
can
use
it.
There
is
a
approval
process
of
sort
and
the
approval
process
is
either
through
the
chair
or
through
the
mayor,
rather
than
through
the
city
manager
and
one
other
a
couple
other
things
that
are
required
by
that
statute.
D
That
may
actually
impact
the
concerns
that
you
have
of
the
the
privilege
being
abused
is:
are
these
two
things?
First
of
all,
there's
a
requirement
that
the
person
who
wants
to
participate
remotely
there's
a
requirement
that
that
person
has
to
identify
on
the
record
in
the
meeting
why
they
cannot
attend
the
meeting
in
person
and
then
they
have
to
tell
on
the
record
where
they're
participating
from.
So.
D
If,
if
we
presume
that
everybody's
operating
under
some
kind
of
honor
system,
I
think
the
chances
of
someone
deciding
to
call
in
to
participate
remotely
because
they
want
to
watch
the
game
go
down
significantly
because
they're
going
to
be
subjecting
themselves
to
not
only
you
know
the
ire
of
their
their
constituents,
but
also
maybe
the
condemnation
of
their
colleagues.
So
these
are.
There
are
a
lot
of
ways
that
the
concerns
can
be
addressed.
D
I
think
that,
in
fairness
to,
if
we're
looking
at
this
as
a
document
to
have
prospective
value
to
the
body,
just
simply
limit
your
the
opportunity
to
participate
to
when
there's
an
illness
may
be
a
little
bit
short-sighted
and
there
may
be
ways
to
walk
around
the
other
conditions
that
you
think
might
open
the
door.
H
H
D
H
Get
just
zoom
in
on
the
lower
right.
You
can
see
100
you
want
to
zoom
in
more
and
then
just
make
sure
you
scroll
over
to
the.
D
D
D
D
D
D
If
you
decided
to
use
that
criterion,
then
you,
you
have
all
sorts
of
privacy
issues
that
we're
sort
of
trying
to
navigate
in
a
public
meeting,
and
it
also
operates
to
sort
of
substitute
the
body's
judgment
from
the
member's
own
judgment
as
to
whether
or
not
is
is
it's
feasible
for
them
to
be
physically
present
to
to
participate
in
the
meeting.
So
those
are
things
to
keep
in
mind.
D
There
was
a
question
as
to
whether
you
could
limit
the
participation
to
just
that
participation
by
way
of
discussion
and
not
voting.
Certainly,
there
is
some
flexibility
that
you
have
in
outlining
the
conditions
that
you
want
to
place
on
a
member.
If
you
decide
to
go
this
way,
the
challenge
that
presents
itself
in
some
ways
is
the
challenge,
because
there's
no
law
that
controls
this
particular
circumstance.
D
D
They
all
recognize
that
their
determinations,
if
you
will,
are
based
on
their
interpretation
of
what
constitutes
an
open
meeting
which
is
not
completely
divine
by
our
florida
statute,
and
it
is
in
essence
a
different
legal
issue
presented
than
a
simply
a
question
as
to
whether
or
not
the
sunshine
would
be
violated.
D
So
everyone
has
made
their
best
effort
to
address
a
situation
which,
under
home
rule,
appears
to
be
something
that
a
member
can
exercise
without
regard
to
whether
there
exists
a
formal
policy
or
not.
So
when
we
say
can
we
limit
the
the
the
resolution
and
the
effects
of
it
to
just
participation
and
not
voting?
I
D
On
transacting,
the
public
business,
especially
if
there
remains
the
condition
that
a
physical
forum
is
present
in
the
meeting
place,
so
those
are
things
to
think
about
buried
in
some
of
those
comments
are
ways
to
address.
Some
of
the
concerns
that
you
have.
You
do
have
the
opportunity
to
limit
put
as
many
limits
on
this
as
possible.
D
I
did
have
an
opportunity
to
speak
with
the
city
attorney
in
neptune
beach
before
coming
before
you
all
this
evening,
and
you
know
in
hindsight
he
thinks
that
maybe
their
resolution
would
have
been
better
served
with
a
few
more
procedural
hoops
before
exercising
the
privilege
to
participate
remotely,
but
in
that
instance,
he
said
many
of
the
concerns
that
you
all
have
addressed.
D
They
they
too
had
addressed
them
in
some
form
or
fashion
and
decided
that
it
was
better
for
them
not
to
have
those
procedural
requirements
in
place
before
approval
was
granted,
and
so
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
But
there
are
ways
to
kind
of
address
the
those
the
concerns
that
have
been
shared
if
there
is
collectively
a
desire
to
sort
of
see
another
iteration
of
of
a
policy
and
that's
it
for
what
I
have
at
this
point
I'll
ask
answer
any
questions
you.
B
B
I
have
to
go
and
let's
say
to
a
funeral,
I'm
missing
a
council
meeting
an
important
council
meeting.
That
would
be
a
good
excuse
for
me
to
participate
remotely
correct.
D
Right
and
that
that's
come
up,
I
I
tell
you
that
language
comes
primarily
from
an
experience
where
a
special
meeting
was
called
when
a
member
was
on
vacation
across
the
country.
It
was
a
very
important
vote
and
she
wanted
to
participate
in
that
meeting,
and
so
you
know
when
there
are
regular
meetings
that
are
disclosed
and
published
at
the
beginning
of
the
year.
This
is
less
like
less
likely
to
be
a
consideration
or
a
problem.
D
You
could
actually
state
for
special
meetings
called
under
short
notice
or
something
to
that
effect.
So
there
again,
there
are
a
number
of
ways
we
can
address
this,
but
to
your
point,
there
might
be
at
the
time
when
you
have
to
travel
for
a
distance
and
you
you
know
it
falls
along
at
the
time
of
a
regularly
scheduled
meeting,
and
you
know
you
would
just
prefer
to
participate
away
from
the
dice
as
opposed
to
returning
back
to
participate.
D
So
you
know
it's
just
trying
to
figure
out
not
only
the
needs
of
this
present
body,
but
potentially
the
needs
of
future
members
when
their
personalities,
maybe
their
values,
are
completely
different,
and
I
guess
that
brings
me
to
the
last
point
that
I
wanted
to
bring
up.
This
is
a
resolution.
It's
not
an
ordinance,
you
can
repeal
it
or
rescind
it
at
any
time.
It
won't
have
to
have
to
go
through
nearly
the
approval
process,
one
way
or
the
other.
So
there's
some
flexibility.
B
B
I
think
we're
all
pretty
responsible
and
we
take
pride
in
being
part
of
this
body,
but
I
know
in
the
past
way
before
I
mean
council
members
missed
with
any
excuses,
so
I
think
corey
is
probably
making
sure
that
this
is
not
abuse
in
the
future
in
the
future
and
whoever
is
elected
as
mayor
or
council
member.
So
but
I
think,
being
this
resolution
being
flexible,
I'm
okay
with
it.
So
that's
it.
Thank
you.
C
C
But
I
think
that
also
may
be
causing
some
of
the
hesitation
is
that
it
doesn't
really
give
the
body
an
opportunity
to
kind
of
control
if
it's
being
abused
or
what
have
you,
and
I
wonder
if
there
isn't
some
an
opportunity
to
add
to
our
legislative
policy
manual,
which
doesn't
speak
to
attendance
at
all
other
than
the
attendant,
or
at
least
not
that
I
can
find
other
than
the
attendance
of
the
city
manager
and
the
city
clerk
to
our
meetings.
C
So
maybe
that
accountability,
and
not
just
not
just
it
remotely
remote
meeting,
but
even
just
attendance
in
general
to
set
that
expectation.
I
don't
know
what
the
enforcement
mechanism
would
be,
but
at
least
we've
put
the
expectation
out
there
of
what
attendance
would
be.
So
I
continue
to
support
this.
I
think
it
is
framed
very
well
that
somebody
would
really
need
to
use
it
to
to
take
the
opportunity
to
use
it.
F
Thank
you.
A
couple
of
my
other
concerns
is
I
I
don't
like
the
way
6b
is
written.
I
think
they
could
be.
It
can
be
interpreted
multiple
ways.
F
So
I
don't
think
that
if
this
comes
up
in
the
next
meeting
that,
if
somebody's
not
in
attendance
for
a
reason,
they
should
be
able
to
vote
on
this
issue,
and
the
last
thing
is,
if
you
know
there
might
be
a
particular
issue
that
a
council
member
finds
that
is
very
important
to
them,
that
they
find
that
they
want
to
vote
that
they
want
to
vote
on.
So
if
they're
sick
or
they
have
issues
and
they've
missed,
you
know
they've
missed
a
few
and
they
decide
okay.
Well,
I
want
to
attend
this
one.
F
H
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
a
lot
of
the
concerns
that
have
been
voiced
tonight
and
I
can
see
where
you're
coming
from,
but
I
also
think
that
people
who
serve
the
public
do
so
for
the
underlying
purpose
of
promoting
the
public
good
and
so
with
having
counsel
all
decide
whether
something
is
a
medical
issue,
I
think
that
really
does
start
to
get
into
privacy
issues
as
to
why
someone
may
need
to
be
excused
from
a
meeting
or
two.
H
I
am
more
than
comfortable
with
having
the
city
manager
determine
if
the
the
reasoning
falls
within
the
policy
that
would
be
passing,
we
rely
on
the
city
manager
a
lot
to
decide
as
to
what
is
or
is
not
within
the
boundaries.
So
I
think
this
is
one
of
those
areas
that
we
should
really
rely
on
the
city
manager's
decision
and
to
whether
he
or
she
knows
what
the
what
the
circumstances
are.
H
As
ms
robinson
noted
the
it's
a
resolution,
it's
not
ordinance,
so
we
can
try
this
out
to
figure
out
if
it
works
or
if
it
doesn't
work,
and
all
of
that
I'm
trying
to
read
my
I'm
also
in
agreement
with
having
policy
attendance
added
to
our
council
policies.
You
know
you
should
show
up
x
amount
of
times
in
this
amount
of
row.
Like
you
know,
you
can't
miss
more
than
two
or
three
meetings
without
a
viable
excuse
and
that
viable
excuse
again
shouldn't
have
to
be
decided
by
council.
H
H
This
is
a
a
tricky
as
australians
would
say.
This
is
a
sticky
wicket.
I
guess
britain's
would
say
it
as
well.
This
is
a
sticky
wicket
and
if
you
know
anything
about
cricket
which
I
don't
apparently
it's
a
thing,
it's
just
a
term
that
gets
tossed
around
the
house
a
lot,
and
so
where
do
we
really
want
to
draw
the
lines?
H
One
would
expect
that
there
is
a
level
of
honesty
and
commitment
that
you
hold
and
if
you
are
not
able
to
attend
a
meeting
it
shouldn't
be
because
I've
got
a
hot
date
that
night
kind
of
a
situation.
It
should
be
something
of
substance,
and
I
think
at
our
level
of
service,
one
should
be
able
to
just
assume
that
if
an
individual
is
not
able
to
attend
within
a
framework
that
it
is
a
it's
an
important
reason
why
they
can't
attend,
and
it's
not
just
because
they
just
don't
feel
like
going.
H
My
hair
didn't
come
out
right
or
whatever
it's
a
it's
a
weighty
issue
and
we
shouldn't
be
questioning
that,
as
they
also
are
honorable
honorable
colleagues
of
our
body.
G
So
I'm
hearing
you
echo
some
of
the
points
I
made
earlier
that
that,
even
as
a
sworn
law
enforcement
officer
who
makes
decisions
on
life
and
life
and
death
situations,
there's
accountability
there
still
for
for
that
individual-
and
I
I
mean
I
like
your
your
thought
process-
and
probably
it
should
be
vetted
by
the
city
manager
at
least
there's
some
accountability
there
and
it's
not
just
willy-nilly
out
there
and
and
yes,
I
would
expect
everybody,
that's
on
the
honor
system.
Doing
the
right
thing.
G
That's
in
a
perfect
world,
but
not
everybody
does
the
right
thing.
100
of
time
I
mean
officers,
get
arrested,
teachers
get
arrested,
even
politicians
get
arrested.
So
I
think
if
we
add
that
element
in
there
where,
where
the
city
manager
vets
the
reason
that
I
would
like
to
see
that
in
there,
let's
just
say
that
also,
I
think
councilor
stokes
inadvertently
made
a
great
example.
He
had
coven.
G
He
was
at
the
briefing
he
wanted
to
stay
off
video
because
he
was
in
in
you
know
in
dire
condition-
and
I
don't
know
if
he
had
been
taking
two
doses
of
nyquil
or
not.
You
know
I,
I
think
that
if
you've
got
a
health
issue
to
any
extent
that
you're
taking
some
kind
of
medication
now
the
question
comes.
Do
you
are
you
a
voting
member?
I
don't
care
if
you
attend
remotely,
but
now
are
you
making
votes
I
tend
to
lean
towards,
if
you're,
under
the
influence
of
any
kind
of
medication.
G
A
Let's
do
the
last
comment
from
mayor
hoffman
and
I
think
we're
going
to
be
moving
on
to
the
next
item
only
because
we
still
have
two
more
weighty
items
to
go.
I
think
we've
heard
quite
a
few
comments
for
sandy
and
I
to
put
our
heads
together
and
come
back
with
something
that's
a
little
different,
better
based
on
what
you've
all
said.
So
with
that
now.
The
final
word.
C
Thank
you.
I
just
wanted
to
comment.
I
I
don't
agree
that
someone
should
get
to
participate
in
the
debate
and
then
not
vote.
If
someone
has
to
has
a
conflict
of
interest
in
can't
vote,
they
also
cannot
participate
in
the
discussion,
so
I
don't
think
they
should
have
the
benefit
of
weighing
in,
without
also
the
obligation
for
the
vote.
One
thing
that's
kind
of
been
nagging
on
me
is
the
in
six
that
shall
be
constituted
by,
but
not
limited
to
any
one
of
the
following.
C
Am
I
reading
that
correctly
that
that
kind
of
opens
the
door
that
it's
not
limited
to
a
through
e
okay?
I
think
it
should
be
limited
and
I
think
that's
what
we're
definitely
hearing
at
this
point.
Why
would
we
not
limit
it,
and
you
don't
have
to
answer
that
now,
since
we've
been
talking
about
this
for
an
hour,
it'd
be
great
to
move
on,
but
in
terms
of
our
next
council
meeting
we
were
told
that
there
was
nothing
prohibiting
remote
participation.
H
A
Okay,
so
with
that
city
attorney
robinson-
and
I
will
put
our
heads
together,
we'll
take
into
account
everything
we've
heard
tonight
and
come
back
to
you
with
a
revised
version
to
take
a
look
at
and
consider
now
moving
on.
H
A
I
guess
to
some
extent
I'm
using
some
subjectivity
on
my
part
as
to
whether
or
not
they've
got
a
valid
reason
for
participation
from
a
virtual
perspective,
but
that
would
be
the
intention
would
be
to
have
any
council
member
that
needs
virtual
attendance
at
the
next
meeting
to
be
able
to
do
so.
F
At
the
next
meeting
mayor
hoffman
is
not
going
to
be
in
attendance,
would
she
be
able
to
run
that
meeting
remotely.
A
Okay,
well,
I'm
gonna
turn
the
I'm
going
to
turn
the
mouse
and
the
driving
over
to
our
parks
and
recreation
staff.
They
have
two
items
that
they'd
like
to
talk
to
you
about
tonight:
park,
signs
and
rebranding,
and
urban
trails
update
and
molly,
which
one
do
you
guys
want
to
do.
First,.
J
Okay,
just
before
I
get
started,
I
want
to
let
you
all
know
that
jason's
here
with
me.
So
if
you
have
any
questions
that
you
need
to
direct
towards
him,
he
is
here
so
that
being
said,
I
I've
got
two
topics
within
the
park
signs
to
discuss
with
you
tonight,
one
being
the
park
signs
and
the
other
being
the
welcome
sign
at
the
south
side
of
the
city.
J
The
park
signs
have
are
in
need
of
renovation.
It's
been
about
five
years.
They're
they've
got
some
age
and
some
wear
on
them,
and
we
see
this
as
an
opportunity
to
potentially
change
them.
Currently,
they're
green
with
the
city
seal.
B
I
am
so
glad
you
guys
are
doing
this,
because
I
have
thought
about
this
for
a
very
long
time
with
the
signs
with
the
the
two
logo.
The
two
new
designs,
you
guys
have
one
with
the
the
pink
jacks
and
the
white
background.
I,
like
that
background,
the
other
one
where
just
the
t1
white
I,
like
that
background,
maybe
you
could
add
the
jacks
to
the
same
color
as
pink
for
the
south
end.
Welcome
I
love
it.
I
feel
like
something's
missing.
I
don't
know
what
it
is.
B
I'm
glad
we're
doing
this.
I
just
for
the
jax
beach
on
the
welcome
sign
on
the
south
end.
I
feel
like
there's
something
missing.
I
don't
know
what
it
is,
but
it's
in
the
right.
G
I'm
next,
so
I
I
also
like
the
water
tower
logo.
I
think
it's
fantastic.
I
think
we
should
update
that
to
re
to
reflect
that
the
signs
to
reflect
that
the
only
concern
I
have
that
that
I've
seen
over
time-
I
might
have
mentioned
it
in
a
briefing
a
year
ago,
or
so
is
I'd
like
to
see
better
lighting
on
the
signs
at
night.
G
I
think
the
one
at
the
south
end
is
not
lit
very
well
and
also
the
one
at
penman
and
beach
has
never
really
been
lit
the
way
it
should
be
so
just
more
intense
lighting
other
than
that.
I
think
it's
fantastic.
I
think
that
we
should
go
ahead
and
update
those
signs.
Thank.
C
So
I
I
like
the
teal
color
with
the
white
logo
and
I
do
like
the
use
of
the
logo
just
because
it's
I'm
not
gonna,
say
logo
artwork,
because
it's
become
so
recognizable
and
I
think
that
the
city
seal
is
just
really
hard
to
identify
what
that
even
is
from
a
distance.
So
so
I
support
that.
I
think
also
cleanly
keeping
them
clean
if
they're,
not
that
white
color
fernando
was
saying
pink,
but
I
it
looks
like
it's
white
to
me.
C
I'm
not
sure
if
we
were
talking
about
the
same
thing.
My
concern
is,
for
the
south
end
sign
that's
up
on
this
on
the
screen.
Now
that
was
a
pretty
recent
addition
to
our
landscape
and
I
believe
it
was
led
by
citizens
in
our
community
and
it
was
there
was
fundraising.
I
know
I
bought
either
one
of
the
c's
or
the
h.
I
can't
remember,
but
it
was
fundraising
done
through
the
community
to
pay
to
put
that
sign
there.
So
I
almost
think
that
should
be,
I
think,
repaint
it.
C
Maybe
the
background
in
the
same
color
as
the
rest
of
the
signs.
It's
already
pretty
close,
but
I
I
like
the
look
of
it:
it's
nice
and
modern,
and
it
fits
that
area
really
well.
I
would
definitely
the
sign:
that's
over
by
huguenot
park,
slash
the
jack
speech
tennis
center,
so
this
is
going
to
be
the
replacement
for
the
monument
sign.
That's
already
there.
Yes,
okay!
Is
that
the
one
with
all
the
like
the
lions
club
and
the
rotary
sign,
and
all
that
stuff?
No.
J
No,
this
is
just
at
the
corner
of
16th
south
and
a1a
right
there
in
front
of
the
tennis
center.
Well
that
other.
C
Sign
doesn't
look
great
I'll,
be
honest
where
the
I
think
the
purple
heart
city
sign
is
there
and
some
other
stuff.
I'm
sorry.
I
should
have
paid
a
little
more
attention,
but
I
just
remember
noticing
it
doesn't
look
great
and
then
there's
some
also
a
monument
sign
at
gonzalez
park
that
is
looking
dated
so
hopefully
we're
including
that
on
the
list-
and
I
agree
with
dan
the
sign
at
penman
and
beach-
that's.
C
I
would
definitely
update
that
one
with
the
look
that
you
have
for
the
for
the
south
end
sign.
But
it's
it's
the
wrong
font,
it's
the
wrong
colors,
but
it
doesn't
matter
because
you
can't
see
it.
J
We
had
some
of
the
community
members
approach
us
and
let
us
know
some
of
the
history
on
that,
and
there
was
a
good
bit
of
investment
time
and
money
wise,
so
they
would
like
to
see
it
remain
the
same,
but
maybe
get
a
little
tlc
paint
the
wall
change
the
landscape,
some
do
the
up
lighting.
H
Yeah
there
I
am,
I
was
trying
to
find
it
and
the
the
signs
are
taking
up
my
screen
hello.
So
I
agree
with
what
people
have
said.
I
have
heard
a
lot
about
the
one
on
the
south
side.
Those
were
individually
purchased
letters
and
it
you
know
it
wasn't
a
city
venture
to
begin
with
so,
and
I've
got
a
whole
packet
of
notes
from
people
on
all
of
this
stuff
which
I'm
glad
to
share
so
with
the
one
on
the
south
side.
H
Like
the
mayor
said
it
needs
to
be
repainted
behind,
but
the
letters
really
don't
need
to
be
changed.
One
of
the
things
that
I've
noticed,
which
isn't
in
the
notes
is
the
south
side.
Current
text
aligns
with
the
skate
park.
That's
with
the
jacks
beach
skate
park,
it's
the
same
text,
same
kind
of
a
metal
feel
to
it,
and
so
I
think
we
should
be
able
to
leverage
that
in
the
other
areas.
H
One
comment
is,
it
looks
like
the,
and
this
is
beyond
what
we
do
at
this
point
is
that
the
lifeguard
chair
actually
looks
like
a
tennis
chair,
and
I
don't
know
like
a
tennis
coach,
like
the
the
people
who
judge
the
tennis
courts,
looks
like
one
of
those
chairs,
and
I
don't
know
if
it's
because
of
the
jax
beach
tennis
court.
H
Similarly,
there's
a
question
as
to
why
you
have
the
established,
because
it's
so
small
that
it's
not
easily
readable
from
somebody
driving
by
so
these
signs
are
for
people
who
are
driving
and
you
can't
see
the
established.
So
you
need
the
jax
beach
tennis
club,
which
brings
me
into
the
point
of
having
a
sign.
There
is
to
promote
the
tennis
club,
not
jax
beach,
so
the
tennis
club
should
be
in
the
big
letters
in
jack's
speech
in
the
smaller
letters.
So
people
know
what
it
is
that
they
are
looking
for.
H
With
regard
to
the
sign
that
you
have
up
on
the
screen,
the
jax
beach
tennis
club,
there's
too
much
white
space,
that's
that's
what
the
notes
say
so
too
much
white
space
and
the
type
style
is
too
thin
for
tennis
club,
and
these
are
artists,
designer
people
that
who
are
giving
this
feedback.
So
they
are
the
ones
who
do
this
for
a
living.
So
it's
not
me.
H
I
would
say
that
we
should
be
citing
and
such,
and
I
could
argue
about
which
type
of
citation
you
should
use,
but
this
is
art
the
tennis
club
too
much.
So
this
quick
go
back
going
back
to
south
jack
speech.
I
have
the
note
that
this
there's
too
much
going
on
and
the
scale
is
all
wrong.
H
So
if
we
choose
to
do
the
jack
speech,
the
scale
is
wrong
for
the
curvature
of
the
platform
that
is
there
and
it-
and
the
note
here
is
jack
speech-
should
hire
a
nationally
known
environmental
graphic
firm.
So
there
are
professionals
who
do
graphics
and
the
outdoors
for
a
living,
and
if
we
really
want
to
make
things
pop,
then
they
are
the
ones
that
we
should
be
talking
to.
H
We
shouldn't
be
trying
to
decide
it
by
a
former
police
officer,
an
engineer,
a
developer,
a
bar
manager,
a
arts,
museum
person,
a
director
and
an
engineer,
and
an
academic
trying
to
figure
out
how
this
would
work
and
attract
people.
There
are
people
who
do
this
for
a
living
that
we
should
really
rely
on
them.
If,
if
we
decide
to
totally
do
a
rehash
of
how
we
want
our
signs
to
look
and
be
effective
in
what
it
is
that
we
are
trying
to
achieve
for
the
city.
F
I'd
be
fine
with
leaving
the
the
south
welcome,
sign,
just
upgraded
a
little
bit
those
the
size
of
those
that
are
pictured
right
now.
Obviously,
I'd
like
to
see
something
much
larger.
If
we
are
going
to
make
a
change,
I
like
the
direction
we're
going.
Just
something
doesn't
feel
the
I
like
those,
but
the
other
one
for
the
tennis
court
doesn't
seem
like
the
size
is
right.
The
doesn't
seem
like
the
text
is
right
for
the
sign.
K
Thank
you.
I
too
spoke
with
some
of
the
citizens
who
were
involved
in
the
south
beach
welcome
sign,
and
I,
with
that
being
a
community
driven
initiative.
I
think
that
we
should
respect
that
and,
and
we
should
leave
it
the
way
it
is
especially
since
several
people
invested
their
money
into
into
that
sign.
K
It
could
use
some
sprucing
up
with
paint,
yes
for
sure,
but
I
I
say
unless,
unless
the
like,
what
we
did
with
the
with
the
sunshine
park,
unless
the
community
who
was
involved
in
it,
wants
to
see
something
done
differently,
I
I
would
prefer
that
we
leave
it
the
way
it
is,
and
I
agree
with
the
feedback
that
was
that
was
shared
by
ms
dumont
on
those.
If,
if
you
bring
up
the
tennis
sign
one
of
those
tennis
club
signs,
I
I
I
think
it
really.
K
The
text
does
need
to
be
bigger.
If
you
look
at
the
one
that
has
the
penman
park,
that's
a
private,
I
mean
that's
a
really
good
example.
You
see
penman
park
really
jumps
out
at
you,
and
the
logo
should
be
should
should
not
be
so
prominent
because
it
should
be
easy
for
people
to
know
what
you
know.
What
is
this
sign?
K
You
know
telling
us
this
facility
is,
and
the
logo
should
definitely
be
secondary
to
what
the
name
of
the
facility
is
and
gonzalez
park.
Thank
you
mayor
for
bringing
that
up,
because
that
was
definitely
that's
one
that
has
got
to
get
addressed
because
it
looks
terrible,
so
we
we
definitely
need
to
address
that,
and
I'm
glad
that
you
guys
have
that
on
your
on
your
radar.
K
The
only
other
thing
I'm
gonna
say-
and
I
know
this
is
probably
not
gonna-
be
it's
it's
not
going
to
be
popular
by
any
means,
but
I
have
never
been.
I've
never
been
thrilled
with
this
logo
and
unfortunately
that
logo
was
not
actually
selected
by
the
city
council.
K
It
just
ended
up
being
somebody
in
the
city
just
decided
to
put
it
on
the
water
tower
and
it
just
it's
grown
legs
of
its
own,
and
you
know
I'm
really
disappointed
that
that
we
didn't
have
more
conversation
about
what
what
the
branding
would
be
for
jack's
beach
than
what
happened
with
that
logo.
It.
It
is
what
it
is.
Just.
K
As
the
mayor
said
in
the
last
meeting,
you
know
it's
the
horses
out
of
the
barn,
there's,
not
anything
that
we
can
do
about
it,
but
I
just
wanted
to
share
that
when
we're
talking
about
branding,
I
feel
like
we
need
to
have
it
needs.
We
need
to
talk,
have
more
conversation
about
about
that
rather
and
not
have
it
be
something
that
just
automatically
happened
one
day
without
any
approval
by
the
city
council.
I
All
right
thanks!
Well,
I
was
going
to
echo
a
lot
about
that.
To
me
this
is
branding
marketing
of
our
city.
I
I
I
think
that
this
is
a
great
opportunity
to
to
engage
even
a
local
marketing,
branding
firm
to
really
to
really
run
with
this
project.
Give
them
our
signs
and-
and
you
know,
I'm
not-
I'm
not
huge
on
the
color
schemes.
I
worry
about
maintenance.
I
said
it.
I
don't
know
how
many
briefings
ago
it
was
a
while
back
about
our
entry
signs.
I
don't
think
they
need.
I
They
need
renovation.
I
think
that
they
need
tlc
most
most
in
anything,
that
the
paint
on
a
lot
of
our
signs
has
been
not
doing
good.
I've
sent
photos
in
on
some
of
the
signs
that
have
had
graffiti
and
and
dust
and
all
sorts
of
stuff.
I
don't
know
if
it's
dust,
I
don't
know
what
it
was
all
film
all
over
the
signs.
So
with
a
teal
and
white
and
especially
a
white
background.
I
really
worry
about
that.
I
It's
just
gonna
be
green
and
and
gnarly
looking
pretty
quickly,
but
I
I'm.
I
think
that
this
is
a
great
opportunity
to
come
up
with
a
really
consistent
branding
and
and
really
take
our
time
and
not
rush
to
come
up
with
some
signs
that
these
you
know
these
like,
like
mentioned.
These,
have
been
here
for
five
years,
predates
some
of
us
on
council
and,
and
these
could
out
outlive
some
of
us
are
definitely
go
through
another
iteration.
I
So
I
think
that
there's
we
should
take
our
time,
get
some
really
solid
marketing
branding,
because
this
is
how
we
show
ourselves
to
residents
visitors
all
the
above,
of
what
jack's
beach
is
and
and
take
pride
in,
and-
and
I
think
we
really
need
to
do
some
tlc
on
that
south
inside.
I
I
really
like
that
sign.
I
think
that
would
be
a
great
entry
sign
on
all
the
entrances.
I
don't
I
really
like
that
sign.
I
think
it
looks
good
and
but
I
agree,
councilmember
janssen
brought
it
up.
I
Our
our
signs
need
lighting,
they
need
tlc
more
above
rebranding
and
and
we
definitely
need
to
come
up
with
some
more.
You
know
get
some
get
some
marketing
re
branding
people
because
this
doesn't
doesn't
for
me
personally,
isn't
isn't
the
brand
that
I
really
think
we
need-
and
I
didn't
like
the
old
one
either.
So
I'm
not
a
huge
fan
of
the
new
one.
So
but
that's
my
opinion
and
hopefully
we
can
come
up
with
something
really
cool
that
looks
great
for
the
city.
B
B
Take
those
work,
take
those
letters
and
put
them
up
here
and
molly
on
the.
B
Where
am
I
looking
at
here?
It
is
on
the
jack
speech,
tennis
club,
you
have
the
top
one,
whereas
jax
is
what
color
is
that
pink?
What
what
color
is
that
I
just
I'm
just
calling
it
pink
pinkish
I
like
that
color
it
pops.
B
I
would
like
to
see
more
besides
these
two
examples
that
you
provided.
I
would
like
to
see
a
couple
more
just
to
just
to
see
we
can
get
a
feel
the
white
I
feel
on
the
bottom.
One
I
feel
like
that
white
is
just
gets
dirty
too
quick,
that's
just
my
opinion.
I
know
this
is
not
going
to
be
the
final
and
then
the
second
thing
there's
the
welcome
sign
on
the
north
end.
J
That
would
be
up
to
you
guys
if
you
want
to
look
at
a
diff,
creating
a
different
logo
get
with
some
marketing
firms
that
kind
of
thing
or
it's
whatever
you
would
like.
I
think
it
would
be
nice
to
have
consistency
across
the
city,
whatever
we
determine
that
is,
but
it
it
would
be
ideal
to
have
the
majority
of
the
signs
being
similar.
B
I
know
we
made
that
comment
a
couple
of
times
already
the
other
thing
I
was
going
to
try
to
say
on
the
gonzalez
park
that
that
letter,
I
think
I
can't
remember
if
it
was
the
n
or
the
l
it
was,
it
was
either
completely
missing
or
it
was
torn
down
or
was
half
of
it.
This
is
a
couple
months
when
I
drove
by,
and
I
think
that's
all
I
have
for
now.
I
just
had
a
brain
for
it.
So
I'll
come
back
to
you.
H
Thank
you,
so
I'm
glad
to
hear
that
a
lot
of
people
are
not
in
favor
of
doing
anything
other
than
refreshing
the
one
in
south
jacks
beach.
You
know,
paint
the
background.
The
letters
stay
there,
but
if
we
want
to
go
with
consistency,
then
that
would
be
the
consistency
throughout
the
city.
If
that
is
what
our
our
goal
is,
I
agree
with
sandy,
even
though
it's
an
unpopular
position,
this
was
not
a
logo
that
was
ever
voted
on.
It
was
kind
of
one
of
those
things
that
you
know
it
wasn't
strongly.
H
Argued
against
so
it
just
kind
of
became.
I
argued
against
it,
you
know,
and
chris
was
the
only
one
in
the
she's,
the
only
one
on
council.
I
was
in
that
meeting
when
the
the
consultants
were
there.
I'm
like
this
is
a
logo
for
jacksonville
and
their
beach,
and
we
are
not
their
beach.
We
are
our
own
city
who
happens
to
have
a
beach
that
they
helped
to
fund,
and
so
I
was
very
much
against
this
logo
and
lo
and
behold,
it
ends
up
on
the
water
tower
by
my
house.
H
I
don't
know
how
that
happened,
but
it
did,
and
so,
if
we
look
at,
I
guess
is
the
next
agenda
item
the
identity
comp
sheet,
where,
with
all
of
the
proofs
of
everything
that
you
can
throw
the
lifeguard
chair
into
that,
you
could
possibly
imagine
the
comment
I
got
is
this
is
overkill
on
the
use
of
chair
logo.
It
loses
impact,
we
call
it
dilutes,
and
so
yes,
it
is
a
lot
of
money
to
repaint
the
water
towers.
H
H
H
This
is
the
name
of
our
city,
there's
jack's
and
then
there's
beach,
and
I
think
that
that's
more
problematic
you
want
yours,
you
want
the
name
of
the
entity
to
be
uniform,
not
broken
up.
So
I
I
have
a
problem
with
that
and
then,
with
regard
to
signs
I'm
concerned
about
the
I
could,
I
think
it's
lifeguard,
chair
orange.
I
don't
know
if
that's
really
the,
if
there's
truly
a
name
for
that,
but
you
called
it
pink
fernando.
I
think
it's
like
lifeguard,
chair
orange
or
red
or
whatever
they
call
it.
H
H
So
I
think,
while
I
really
love
where
we're
trying
to
go,
I
think
this
is
a
big
pause
on
signs
and
we've
really
got
to
think
about
what
it
is
that
we
want
to
invest
taxpayer
dollars
into
with
regard
to
signs
to
make
sure
they're
uniform
throughout
the
city,
there's
something
that's
agreed
on
and
voted
on,
and
that
we
have
a
lot
of
citizen
input
on
those
are
just
my
thoughts.
I
know
the
lifeguard
chair
not
so
much.
H
I
think
there
were
four
citizens,
maybe
five
citizens
in
that
meeting,
where
I
think
it
passed
in
the
briefing
and
I
used
that
term
lightly.
It
was
me
sandy,
oh
possibly
gary
paytow,
and
maybe
one
other
one
when
the
briefing
was
going
on
in
that
back
room.
That
is
when
it
officially
passed.
Even
though
there
was
no
vote,
but
there
was
no.
No.
H
We
want
to
go
back
to
the
drawing
board,
so
I
remember
I
remember
the
meeting
and
I
was
I
was
taken
aback
when
I
found
out
that
it
was
decided
on
that
this
is
going
to
be
the
logo.
K
Yeah
just
real
quickly,
I
echo
the
comments
that
were
made
by
the
council
members
with
regard
to
the
concerns
about
the
maintenance
and
the
colors
and
how
well
the
colors
will
withstand
the
hot
sun
that
we
have
on
a
daily
basis.
That
was
one
of
the
first
things
I
thought
of
when
I
saw
you
know,
because
that
red
is
definitely
or
whatever
color
it
is.
It's
definitely
going
to
fade
and
the
white
background
again
concerning
because
how
how
well
is
that
going
to
be
able
to
be
kept
clean
and
well
maintained?
K
But
so
I
mean
I
I
have
to
say
that
I'm
gonna,
I'm
in
the
I'm
in
the
same
camp.
That
mr
stokes
is
in.
That
you
know.
Is
this
an
opportunity
for
us
to
put
some
time
into
branding
and
and
get
something
put
together
that
we
all
agree
that
we
want
to
move
forward
with
so
yeah?
I
I
would
be
willing
to
go
I'd
I'd,
be
willing
to
discuss
that
further.
A
The
nice
part
is,
if
you
all
looked
at
the
strategic
plan
email
I
sent
you
last
week.
We
do
have
a
branding
project
in
there,
so
that
is
something
we
will
be
discussing
in
the
next
couple
of
years
to
try
and
tackle
mayor
hoffman,
followed
by
councilor
meza.
C
Just
for
the
benefit
of
everybody
else,
the
lifeguard
chair,
logo,
okay,
so
the
lifeguard
chair
is
what
you're
calling
pink.
Okay,
I'm
sorry
I
was
confused.
I
was
like
is
my
color
off
on
my
screen
here,
and
it
is
kind
of
pink
which
is
weird,
because
lifeguard
chairs
are
definitely
orange
e
red.
The
lifeguard
chair
logo
was
proposed
by
dix
height
as
part
of
a
cra
project.
So
not
only
was
it
never
voted
on,
but
it's
not
even
supposed
to
be
for
the
whole
city.
C
It's
supposed
to
be
for
downtown
and,
oddly
enough,
downtown
is
the
only
place
in
town
that
you
could
not
find
that
logo
anywhere
unless
it's
on
the
deck,
the
chair,
submission
by
the
city
of
jacksonville
beach.
That
being
said,
people
love
this
logo.
If
we
put
it
on
hats
and
shirts
and
sold
it,
people
would
be
going
crazy
for
it.
So
I
I
my
objection
to
it.
Wasn't
that
I
didn't
like
the
logo.
Although
I
didn't
love
the
logo,
it
was
the
process
which
was
the
fact
that
someone
told
dick's
height.
C
We
were
going
with
it
and
we
never
actually
voted
on
it.
The
cra
or
the
council,
so
that
being
said,
we
have
something
that's
popular
it's
identified
with
us.
However,
it
happened
it's
now
on
both
of
the
water
towers.
I
think
it
looks
good
and
ties
together
all
of
our.
If
it's
on
the
sign,
it
will
tie
things
together
really
nicely
because
you
don't.
I
just
don't
think
the
city
steel
identifies
us
at
all.
C
I
have
never
looked
at
it
and
seen
a
tennis
judge's
chair,
probably
only
real
avid
tennis
players
would
do
that,
but
but
now
I'll
probably
see
it
forever
more
is
there
with
regards
to
the
sign
at
the
north
end
by
fletcher.
That
sign
is
different
than
the
other
signs
we've
been
talking
about,
because
it's
it's
not
a
monument
sign
and
it's
in
the
middle
of
a
median.
C
So
I
don't
know
that
we
can
do
that
in
the
same
breath
as
the
ones
that
we're
working
on
now,
and
I
don't
know
what
kind
of
other
property
we
have
up
there.
That
would
work
for
a
bigger
sign,
so
that
one
is.
It
looks
like
the
way
finding
signs
that
are
kind
of
here
in
the
central
part
of
of
the
beaches,
with
downtown
we're
pointing
out
community
theater
and
those,
so
that
would
probably
be
maybe
within
when
we
get
to
those
signs
that
we
deal
with
that
one.
C
It's
just
my
thought
and
then
what
I
agree
with
the
maintenance
and
the
colors,
and
everything
like
like
that.
If
you've
gone
next
to
any
of
these
signs,
they
are
really
faded.
The
the
seal
is
just
a
sticker.
It
peels
off,
it's
just
they're,
just
in
terrible
shape.
So
I
really
I,
I
think,
we're
doing
so
much
work
in
in
creating
some
pride
in
our
our
parks
and
recreation
amenities
here
that
that
those
signs
are
just
just
not
they're
not
acceptable.
Molly
for
these
mock-ups
are
these
from
a
sign
company.
J
We
just
went
we
wanted
to
give
you
some
ideas,
some
different
directions,
that
we
could
take,
this
we're
happy
to
go
to
marketing
firms,
or
I
know
counselor
dumont
mentioned
the
environmental
aspect
of
the
larger
outdoor
park.
Signs
we're
happy
to
do
that
as
well.
If
you
want
a
total
rebrand,
we're
happy
to
do
that
too,
but.
C
I
wouldn't
sign
up
for
that.
If
I
were
you,
because
that's
a
that's
like
a
strategic
planning
level
kind
of
process.
So
but
I
would
say
when
you
do
go
to
the
professional
sign
companies,
they
know
how
to
lay
things
out
and
how
to
size
things
for
readability
and
make
those
kind
of
recommendations
that
are
some
of
the
concerns.
C
So
I
would
my
position
is
to
support
moving
forward
with
this
enlisting
a
sign
coming
or
doing
even
doing
the
rfp
or
whatever
the
next
step
would
be
for
you
guys
and
let
the
professionals
tell
us,
but
I
also
think
the
south
end
sign
should
be,
could
be
a
model
for
the
monument
sign
that's
over
here
on
on
beach
boulevard,
rather
than
so
for
the
consistency,
it's
a
big
old
sign
that
says
jacksonville
beach,
that
it
looks
like
that.
C
It
looks
like
that
one
because
they
couldn't
look
more
different
at
this
point
sure.
B
Well
before
I
begin
molly
and
jason
and
parks
and
rec,
thank
you
so
much
for
putting
this
together.
You
guys
are
being
proactive,
and
I
appreciate
it
very
much
and
I
know
my
colleagues
do
as
well
the
jax
beach
logo.
I
did
not
know
that,
but
mayor
since
you're
part
of
the
beaches,
historic
museum,
this
could
be
a
good
historic
history
point
in
a
hundred
years,
where
how
did
this
sign
come
about?
We
don't
know
it
just
snuck
in
something
interesting,
so
I
think
it's
pretty
cool
and
you
were
right.
B
A
lot
of
people
do
love
the
sign
and,
like
you
said,
if
you
put
that
on
a
hat
and
shirt
people
will
buy
it,
I'm
just
happy
we're
doing
this.
That's
all!
I'm
really
am
it's
it's
about
time
and
yeah,
I'm
just
happy!
That's
all!
Thank
you
guys.
A
We've
got
three
more
hands
raised
so
after
we
get
through
counselor
stokes
I'd
like
to
switch
to
our
last
item,
but
we
have
counselor
dumont,
councillor,
jansen
and
counselor.
H
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
everything.
That's
been
said
about
the
signs
and
the
logos
and
all
that
and
I'm
kind
of
taken
aback
that
people
have
heard
people
loving
this
sign.
I
have
not
heard
anyone
who
likes
it.
I
have
for
years
been
hearing.
What
is
that
on
our
water
tower?
You
can't
distinguish
what
it
is
and
all
of
that
so
I've
been.
I
I've
gotten
bad
feedback
for
the
sign
and
I
just
kind
of
go.
H
It
really
is
a
lifeguard
chair
and
I'm
not
saying
we
need
to
repaint
the
water
towers,
I'm
I
do
think
that
we
might
want
to
look
into
if
anything,
a
complementary
design
that
gets
voted
in
to
be
the
sign
like
this,
the
the
the
brand.
That's
on
all
the
other
signs.
H
Again,
I
I
have
not
heard
anyone
who
says
that
they
thought
that
that
was
a
good
design
that
they
liked
it.
I've
heard
the
exact
opposite,
so
I
guess
we
just
hang
out
in
different
crowds,
different
circles
which
is
which
that's
cool.
That
means
that
we
get
a
good
representation
of
our
community
on
those
councils,
which
is
fabulous,
so
I
am
happy
to
move
forward.
G
Okay,
so
full
transparency.
I
thought
that
logo
was
passed
by
previous
councils
or
something
I
had
no
idea.
So
thanks
for
the
history
lesson
there,
I
learned
something
tonight
I
do
like
the
logo
and
I
wasn't
just
a
police
officer.
I
hate
the
bust
georgette's
bubble,
but
prior
to
becoming
a
police
officer,
I
did
nine
years
as
a
graphic
artist
and
you're
right.
The
jackson
beach
should
be
the
same
size.
G
It
should
be
representative
of
the
city,
so
I
agree
with
you
in
that
context,
but
also
to
to
sandy's
point,
and
then
the
horse
has
left
the
barn,
so
we're
kind
of
stuck
with
what
we
have
it's
on
two
water
towers,
it's
on
shirts,
hats,
and
it
goes
beyond
that
as
well.
So
I,
like
it,
I've
heard
other
people
that
do
like
it
and
juxtaposed
to
what
you
said.
Mr
everyone.
I've
talked
to.
I
Yes,
so
I
googled
the
jax
beach
water
tower
to
look
at
the
water
tower
design,
again
and
sure,
and
lo
and
behold,
in
looking
at
pictures,
I
found
the
branding
company
that
did
our
branding.
I
guess
they
did
it
for
dick's
height.
I
sent
it
to
mike
for
distribution.
Anybody
wants
to
look
at
it.
It's
a
company
out
of
orlando
called
remixed.
I
If
we
do
go
that
option,
they've
already
done
work
for
us,
so
it
might,
it
might
be
able
to
offer
us
a
good
deal,
but
there
is
a
really
cool
logo
in
on
their
web
page
that
I,
I
guess,
never
got
into
production
cooler
than
I
think
the
jax
beach
lifeguard
chair.
So
anybody
has
interest
in
checking
that
out
it's
a
it's
pretty
cool
and
I
would
suggest
you
know,
checking
them
out
for
the
branding
process
since
we've
used
them
before
and
we're
on
their
website
proudly
featured
so
I'll.
A
Okay,
I
think
we've
got
some
direction
on
that
topic,
so
molly
will
go
into
the
final
item.
I
don't
know
if
you're
starting
that
one
or,
if
you're,
turning
it
over
to
jason.
J
Thank
you
mike
good
evening,
mayor
and
council.
I'm
going
to
be
very
brief
and
introduced
turn
it
over
to
jim
harriet,
our
consultant
on
the
urban
trails
project.
They've
done
a
lot
of
good
work
so
far
in
developing
our
master
plan
and
they're
here
tonight
to
give
council
a
briefing
on
where
they
are
in
in
the
process
and
then
ask
for
some
direction
on
some
of
the
concepts.
So
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
jim.
E
Thank
you,
jason
mayor
hoffman,
council
members.
I
appreciate
being
here,
it's
been
a
pleasure
working
with
your
staff.
Also
here
with
with
me,
is
lori
hall,
our
design
director
department,
director
and
craig
berscher,
our
planning
department
director,
we've
been
leading
this
project.
As
over
the
past
couple
of
months,
I'm
gonna
go
ahead.
E
As
we
get
started,
I'll,
just
I've
broken
this
presentation
into
four
parts.
Just
kind
of
walk
you
through
the
first
part
is
just
a
kind
of
an
overview
of
of
what's
gotten
us
to
this
point
and
what
we've
done
so
far
and
then
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
priority
and
how
we
came
up
with
it.
E
The
groundwork
for
that
the
second
part
we'll
talk
about
first
street
and
the
res
specifically
the
residential
areas
of
first
street
I've,
we've
we've
researched
it
quite
a
bit
and
jason's
conveyed
that
it's
a
pretty
big
policy
discussion
for
you,
the
third
part
it
would
be
the
commercial
section
of
first
street
and
then
the
fourth
part,
we'll
just
walk
through
the
different
trail
types
that
we've
been
working
on
for
your
network
and
kind
of
where
they
lay
out
and
as
we
go
through
I'll
explain
why
and
how
each
of
those
those
trail
types
are
what
they
are
and
why
they
make
sense.
E
On
the
the
goals
and
objectives
we've
talked
to
the
community,
and
this
this
came
out
in
a
couple
of
meetings.
We
asked
for
the
community
ideas
and
what
they
thought
and
several
things
jumped
out.
One
was
the
the
connectivity
of
the
trail
system
and
being
able
to
reach
not
just
the
parks,
which
is
I'm
told
how
it
started,
but
also
the
commercial
areas
in
and
around
the
community.
The
beaches,
obviously
just
creating
a
a
recreational
and
transportation
network,
but
even
more
important
to
that.
E
What
what's
the
experience
and
everybody
resoundingly
said?
They
wanted
a
safe
trail
separated
from
traffic
and
those
two
themes
will
come
up
over
and
over
again
as
we
go
through
this
through
this
presentation.
E
We
also
ask
people
for
examples
of
places,
they've
been
or
trails
they've
ridden
on
that
have
kind
of
stuck
with
them
over
time
and
what
they
looked
like,
and
almost
everyone
almost
brought
forward
ideas
of
trails
that
we
went
back
and
researched
and
they
all
fit
this
kind
of
greenway
category
this.
E
This
ride
down
a
converted,
railroad
corridor
ride
through
the
woods
or
walk
through
the
woods
walks
along
waterways
and
you've
got
that
got
a
little
bit
of
a
challenge
there
because
jacksonville
beach
is
built
out
and
there's
not
a
lot
of
those
greenways.
So
we've
tried
to
address
that
and
capture
that
that
puts
that
feel
back
into
the
network.
E
E
E
So
let
me
start
out
with
the
network
that
we
worked
on
and
your
sid,
your
your
staff
contributed
a
lot
to
this,
but
we
did
actually
send
two
teams
of
people
out
to
to
walk
these
and
experience
these
and
take
a
look
at
these.
We
did
a
lot
of
desk
work
to
figure
out
what
the
right-of-ways
were.
The
heavy
line
is
the
trail
corridor
that
lays
right
over
the
top
of
the
street.
So
what
is
the
shaded
line
over
the
top
of
it?
E
We
started
out
with
an
idea
of
an
eight
minute
or
a
fifteen
minute,
walk
from
the
trail,
making
sure
that
everybody
was
it
within
an
eight
or
fifteen
minute
walk,
and
when
we
laid
that
band
over
the
top
of
the
trail
network,
the
entire
city
was
covered
with
with
with
the
shading,
so
we
backed
it
off
and
what
you
can
see.
There
is
about
a
two
minute.
Maybe
three
minute
walk
to
a
trail.
E
This
starts
the
groundwork
of
what
we
can
do
with
the
network
and
how
we
start
connecting
it
up.
So.
E
E
So
our
next
step,
when
we
present
a
the
master
plan
to
you,
will
be
to
fill
out
that
network
a
little
bit
with
with
some
secondary
trails.
This
shows
a
primary
trail
and
the
graphic
on
on
the
right
shows
a
blue
band
around
an
area
you
can
see
it
encompassing
first
street
on
the
far
east
side.
Penman
road,
we
know,
is
a
project
that
the
city
of
jacksonville
was
working
on.
E
That
tends
to
be
the
west
band,
and
then
the
north-south
areas
touch
on
your
two
greenways
that
you
have
on
the
south
side
towards
the
south
end
of
the
golf
course
you've
got
a
canal
that
has
a
fairly
wide
right
of
way
that
we,
we
think,
would
be
an
excellent
opportunity
for
a
trail
and
then
on
the
north
side.
You've
got
a
corridor
that
has
a
wide
median
and
we
would.
We
would
build
a
trail
down
through
that
median
and
along
that
roadway.
E
That
creates
inmates
one
of
the
other
objectives
that
the
community
had
talked
about
quite
a
bit,
which
was
not
just
doing
an
out
back
trail,
but
do
a
loop
so
that
you
can
start
in
some
place
and
loop
yourself
back
around
to
where
you
started,
as
opposed
to
just
driving
up
one
direction
of
the
trail
and
then
or
riding
up
one
direction
or
walking
up
one
direction
and
and
coming
back
the
same
way.
E
The
north
side,
you
can
see
you
see
the
east
west
route
on
on
15th
avenue
on
first
street
on
the
bottom
left-hand
corner
of
the
map.
There's
this
this
kind
of
loop
that
happens.
We
would
bring
the
trail
across
beach
boulevard.
We
would
recommend
bringing
the
trail
across
beach
boulevard
at
a
signal,
but
we
also
did
some
math
and
figured
out
that
the
route
around
the
bridge
and
underneath
the
bridge
is
actually
quite
interesting.
It's
it's
very
green,
there's
more
of
a
nature
to
it.
E
It
puts
you
out
by
the
water
and
it's
not
much
of
a
longer
ride
and
I
have
to
admit,
as
a
as
a
you
know,
bike
rider
or
cyclist
I'd
probably
take
that
route
as
opposed
to
waiting
for
a
traffic
signal
just
because
it
you
know,
puts
a
little
more
exercise
in
the
day.
A
much
nicer
walk,
much
nicer
experience.
So
that's.
E
That
little
group
of
trails
stretches
out
beach
boulevard
like
that,
the
southern
end
of
the
city,
the
corridor
along
the
the
drainage
canal
right
up
in
this
area.
12Th
comes
along
the
back
of
the
golf
course.
We've
talked
to
two
parks
and
the
golf
course
superintendents
and
they're
very
happy
with
in
in
encouraging
a
route
through
the
golf
course
which
is
great
because
it
adds
a
greenway
space
to
to
your
city
for
a
trail
system.
We
haven't
laid
out
how
that
would
fit.
E
Yet
that's
that's
on
the
task
for
the
next
week
or
two,
but
but
there
is
some
room
and
there
is
some
ability
to
do
that
and
in
your
capital
improvement
program.
There's
some
some
funding
set
aside
to
do
some
work
on
the
golf
course.
So
we're
trying
to
make
those
two
connect
up.
E
Also
down
in
the
in
the
south
western
section
of
the
city.
You've
got
the
old
landfill
that
several
residents
brought
up
as
a
great
opportunity
for
another
green
space
and
and
bringing
people
out
to
a
different
area
instead
of
just
riding
along
the
street.
There's
an
opportunity
to
get
out
away
from
the
street
away
from
the
traffic
a
little
bit.
E
This
is
actually
a
street
in
greenwood,
indiana
and-
and
I
found
this
and
picked
this
out
because
it
originally
was
a
road-
that's
roughly
the
same
width
of
first
street,
maybe
a
foot
or
two
different,
but
from
curb
to
curve
it
was
about
the
same
width
of
first
street
and
they
rebuilt
it.
But
the
two
points
I'd
bring
out
is
is
one
they
separated
the
trail
from
the
roadway.
You
can
see
that's
about
a
four
foot
separator
there's
two
points
that
probably
work
for
greenwood
that
probably
wouldn't
work
for
jacksonville
beach.
E
The
forefoot
is
grass,
there's
no
curb
to
it.
I
can
tell
you
that
that
four
feet
in
florida
probably
doesn't
end
up
being
grass
for
very
long,
so
we
would
recommend
a
different
treatment
to
it.
But
then
the
trail
pavement
markings
have
a
very
unique
trail
corridor
pavement
markings.
You
can
see
the
green
center
line,
not
necessarily
needed,
but
there
is
a
green
center
line
there
and
then
there's
some
other
treatments.
E
E
E
So,
let's
look
at
the
first
street
options,
pretty
quick.
We
did
look
at
a
one-way
option.
It
fit
within
the
corridor.
You
have
30
feet
between
curbs
and
that
would
allow
the
12-foot
travel
lane
with
an
eight-foot
buffer.
That
puts
you
at
20
feet.
Then
another
10-foot
trail
in
this
section.
I
would
expect
the
use
of
this
trail
down
first
to
be
highly
used,
be
a
pretty
popular
route.
It's
right
there
by
the
beach
it's
providing
access
to
the
beach
it's
providing
access
to
commercial
areas.
E
I
would
expect
this
used
to
be
pretty
pretty
significant.
So
when
you
think
about
a
trail
in
this
corridor,
I'd
think
of
a
couple
of
things.
12
foot
would
be
the
ideal
width
if
you're
bringing
together
different
modes,
bicycles,
tran
walkers
joggers
in
this
case,
you've
also
got
the
sidewalk
off
to
the
edge.
E
Of
the
road,
so
you
could
probably
get
it
down
to
ten
foot.
We
put
the
eight
foot
buffer
into
this
area
because
it
allows
you
to
do
some
treatments
on
on
separating
the
the
trail
from
the
roadway
creates
a
much
safer
environment.
E
The
wider
you
can
create
that
space
between
the
trail
and
the
roadway
the
much
safer
it
becomes,
and
I
used
a
very
scientific
method
of
doing
that,
which
was
how
comfortable
would
I
feel
if
I
had
a
five-year-old
or
a
four-year-old
riding
their
bike
with
me
on
this
trail
and
how
wide
would
I
want
that
buffer
to
be
that's.
E
The
safety
element
of
it
so
as
we
go
through
these
I'd
recommend
you
look
at
that
too.
Now
the
something
that
jumps
right
out.
We
did
it
for
graphical
purposes,
but
there's
there's
obviously
a
driveway
on
the
one
side
and
you
can't
get
to
it
I'll
address
that
in
just
a
minute,
but
I
wanted
to
make
sure
we
showed
we
were
showing
the
buffer
in
between
the
trail
and
the
in
the
the
one-way
travel
lane.
E
So
this
is
the
same
cross-section,
but
we've
stretched
the
the
trail
out
and
moved
it
over
to
the
edge
of
the
sidewalk
so
that
four
foot
grass
strip
and
that
you
can
see
in
option
one
that
exists
out
there,
we've
taken
that
and
we've
put
a
trail
over
the
top
of
it.
It's
got
two-way
travel
on
this,
this
cross-section
with
11
foot
lanes
and
a
2
foot
buffer
2
foot
is
an
at
street
level
buffer.
It's
just
a
pavement
marking
buffer.
E
F
E
It's
kind
of
like
a
bike
lane
more
than
is
anything
else.
I
don't
think
it
would
be
a
comfortable
walking
environment.
You
could
narrow
the
lanes
down
to
10
feet.
10
foot,
10
foot
lanes
are
your
minimum
and
you
could
widen
this
out
to
four
feet
if
you
wanted.
That
would
be
one
way
to
get
that
four
foot,
but
if
you're
doing
a
raised
separator
I
would
recommend
no
less
than
four
feet
that
allows
you
to
sign
it
if
necessary.
E
So
this
was
the
the
third
option.
This
this
option
claims
the
sidewalk
and
the
grass
strip
for
the
trail
puts
in
a
seven
foot
buffer
and
then
two
ten
foot
travel
lanes.
So
so
really
your
from
the
back
of
one
sidewalk
to
the
curb
on
the
other
side
of
the
road
you've
you've
accomplished
this
and
you've
put
this
this
system.
K
E
That
seven
foot
buffer
is
is
easily
plantable
would
would
raise
it
with
curbs,
and
I
think
it
would
create
a
very
nice
environment.
E
One
of
the
questions
we
got
at
the
public
meeting
was:
how
do
you
sign
this?
How
do
you
make
this
work
from
a
traffic
standpoint,
this
interaction
and
and
on
these
graphics,
we've
shown
this
buffer
going
right
across
driveways.
So
let
me
show
you,
let's
jump
back
to
that
greenwood
example.
First
thing
on
the
signing
is
you
would
sign
just
generally
that
that
your
traffic
is
going
to
make
its
right
turns
yielding
to
these
trail
users?
It's
the
easiest
way
to
do
it.
E
This
is
actually
a
sign
that
I
haven't
seen
before,
but
I
like
it
a
lot
and
it
would
recommend
this
type
of
treatment
down
the
corridor.
Your
vehicle
travels
going
to
be
fairly
slow.
I
would
imagine,
through
this
corridor
25,
maybe
30
miles
an
hour
tops
the
cars
would
then
yield
to
the
the
bike
lanes.
E
It's
a
simple
message:
everybody
would
understand
it.
What
do
you
do
at
the
driveways?
Excuse
me
so
there's
two
things
here.
The
first
is
your
change.
What
they
did
in
greenwood,
which
I
think
is
a
good
idea-
they
changed
pavements.
They
went
from
an
asphalt
to
a
concrete,
they
did
change
the
colors
in
spots
and
then
they
created
a
delineated.
Clearly
delineated
crosswalk,
simple
treatments,
easy
treatments.
E
You
can
see
the
sign
up
at
the
top
of
the
screen
in
that
picture
in
general
driveways
they
did
the
curb
radii
and
then
they
marked
across
that
driveway
with
the
green
pavement
markings.
It
looks
white
here,
but
I
can
tell
you
they're
green,
that
matches
the
center
line
green
that
you
saw
in
the
other
picture,
just
kind
of
themes
it
out
tells
the
drivers
in
cars
what
they're
experiencing
as
they
go
across
the
trail
tells
the
the
trail
users
where
they're
at
and
what
they're
crossing
as
they
as
they're
going
down
the
corridor.
E
E
E
If
you've
ever
been
there,
it's
a
very
active
street,
you
if
you
drive
down
it,
you're
you're
at
a
almost
complete
crawl,
washington
street
mall
same
thing.
You
can
see
the
street
furniture
the
the
flush
pavement
differing
pavement
textures,
but
vehicles
are
still
using
it.
E
In
boston,
similar
example
with
the
street
textures
and
chain,
you
can
see,
deliveries
can
still
be
made
in
this
environment,
but
it's
obviously
in
this
this
application,
a
very
comfortable
street
to
be
on
on
foot
it
just
kind
of
brings
the
traffic
together,
and
I
think
at
one
of
the
workshops
I
told
the
story
of
when
we
were
doing
some
reconnaissance
for
this
project.
I
think
I
ended
up
down
in
your
downtown
area
during
an
art.
E
E
I
had
not,
but
I
was
certain
that
it
happened
and
and
that's
the
type
environment
you
want
to
create
state
street
in
in
madison
wisconsin.
They
did
not
change
the
the
curb
lines,
but
they
they
allow
pedestrian
and
bicycles
to
run
down
the
middle
of
the
street.
The
road
the
street
itself
is
only
open
to
official
traffic
state
vehicles.
Emergency
vehicles
delivery
vehicles.
E
What
I'm
the
point
I'm
making
is
is
you
can
create
a
trail
out
of
the
street.
You
have
doing
some
of
these
same
techniques.
This
is
16th
street,
it's
essentially
a
mall
in
downtown
denver
and
they
run
their
transit
vehicle
up
and
down
the
mall.
They
do
have
a
pavement
checked,
texture
change
with
a
curb
on
one
side,
but
a
flush
street
on
the
other
and,
on
the
right
hand,
side
the
street
furniture.
E
So
obviously
you
recognize
this
first
street
and
it
has
some
of
the
same
attributes.
So
what
would
you
do
to
bring
traffic
down
to
a
level
and
recreate
this,
as
as
that,
first
street
trail
corridor?
All
the
way
through
there
are
possibilities
that
you
could.
You
could
add
street
furniture
to
this.
You
could
change
the
time
of
day
where
deliveries
can
be
made.
You
could
close
it
off
to
traffic
completely
or
you
could
open
it
for
periods
of
time.
E
A
couple
of
feedback
pieces
of
feedback
we
got
from
residents
was
they
weren't
quite
sure
what
to
do
when
they
were
down
here?
They
weren't
sure.
If
they
were
allowed
to
park,
sometimes
they
could
park,
they
didn't
they
weren't,
really
sure
there
are
options
and-
and
our
designers
took
a
look
at
recreating
some
of
the
pictures
I've
just
walked
through
for
your
downtown
area.
This.
E
Create
a
one-way
traveler
delivery
section
through
the
corridor,
but
when
you
bring
down
the
street
furniture
and
pull
it
into
the
center-
and
you
you
you
add
some
landscaping
and
and
bring
people
invite
people
down
to
the
street,
it
completely
changes
the
make
up
for
that
and
starts
to
create
a
trail.
E
This
is
key
because
that
first
street
runs
the
entire
length
of
your
city,
north
south.
It's
it's
along
the
the
east
coast
greenway
route
and
would
probably
be
a
huge
huge
asset
and
an
interest
point
for
the
community.
E
So
in
the
fourth
part,
I
wanted
to
walk
through
the
trail
types
we
have
shown
these
in
the
workshops,
but
this
is
basically
what
we're
working
off
of
based
on
different
corridors
and
right-of-ways
you've
had
have
throughout
the
city.
The
a-type
corridors
are
greenway
trails.
You
see
an
a
down
here,
I'll
show
you,
the
south
map
you've
got
more
greenways.
Those
are
completely
set
aside
for
trails
b
is
a
protected
trail.
B2
is
kind
of
a
unique
opportunity.
E
I
think
you
have
in
a
couple
areas
which
is
to
convert
a
street
to
a
protected
trail,
and
then
the
sea
trails
is
more
of
a
it's
it's
separated,
but
but
it's
it's
not
a
huge
corridor
or
a
huge
width,
but
it
provides
the
same
amenities
on
the
south
side.
I
mentioned
the
the
greenway
trails
up
through
the
golf
course
down
in
the
landfill
mentioned
those
earlier.
E
So
what's
the
greenway
trail?
Look
like
it's
it's
a
dedicated
facility.
These
are
completely
off-road,
completely
separated.
This
is
what
the
communities
kind
of
looked
at
and
said.
You
know
we'd
love
to
have
these
around
jacksonville
jacksonville
beach,
and
you
have
a
couple
of
areas
for
them
and
we
have
an
idea
of
creating
a
few
more
the
protected
path.
The
the
roadway
is
completely
separate
from
the
the
roadway
corridor.
E
There
is
is
more
than
enough
safety
separation
provides
a
very
comfortable
ride
or
walk
or
or
jogging
element
provided
some
pictures
showing
that
and
then
the
conver,
converted
street
and
protected
path.
E
This
basically
takes
a,
I
would
say,
an
underutilized
or
extremely
under
capacity
roadway.
One.
The
one
that
stands
out
is
eighth
avenue
that
runs
up
through
the
northern
part
of
the
city
through
the
on
either
side
of
of
beach.
E
E
We
can
take
that
under
utilized
capacity
and
recreate
a
trail
separate
it
from
what
a
single
travel
lane
make
the
travel
lane
one
way,
provide
access
to
the
driveways
and
then
build
out
a
10
to
12
foot
trail
with
with
the
buffer
and
start
to
recreate
a
greenway
through
those
those
corridors
that
are
under
utilized
mount.
Dora
has
a
corridor
that
they
did
something
very
similar
to
this,
and
it's
and
it's
a
very
popular
corridor.
E
And
then
the
adjacent
path.
This
is
where
the
path
is
in
the
right
of
way.
You
maintain
the
two
two
lanes
of
traffic,
but
you're
right
up
on
the
edge
of
the
roadway,
usually
about
four
feet.
It's
a
little
bit
closer,
I'm
not
sure
how
comfortable
you
would
be.
You
know
for
multiple
types
of
users.
You
know
children
riding
their
bikes
on
it,
but
there
are
ways
to
address
that
this.
I
E
It's
about
a
four
foot:
separation
and
they've,
put
this
little
fence
or
wrought
iron
fence
down
through
there
to
kind
of
create
the
separation
to
keep
you
to
keep
the
safety
and
and
the
the
pedestrians
from
from
we'll
say,
wandering
into
the
travel.
It's
a
very
heavily
traveled
road.
It's
obviously
not
a
safety
feature
for
the
cars.
E
E
And
that
concludes
the
presentation.
That
kind
of
brings
you
up
to
speed
and
where
we're
at
we're
working
on
a
bunch
of
different
things
as
we
as
we
rapidly
approach
the
the
finish
line
on
this
project.
So
with
that
I'll
turn,
turn
the
discussion
back
over
to
the
council
members
and
we'd
happy
to
take
any
questions.
B
Jim
thank
you
for
putting
into
this
together.
It's
well
put
together.
It's
amazing!
I
love
this
project.
First
question:
what
kind
of
cycle
do
you
have
kind
of
bike.
E
I
have
sir,
I
have
given
up
on
road
cycling.
I
used
to
run
used
to
run
a
road
bike
and
I've
pretty
much
given
up
on
that
now.
I
just
ride
a
bike
and.
A
E
I've
explained
to
people
it's
a
good,
if
I,
if
I
may,
I've
explained
to
people
there's
two
types
of
ways
to
ride
a
bike,
at
least
in
the
way
I
look
at
planning
for
facilities.
One
is
a
cyclist
cyclists
move.
They
strap
their
toes
to
the
pedals.
They're
traveling
16
20
miles
an
hour
24
miles
an
hour.
E
You
can
get
up
a
pretty
good
clip
a
bicyclist
or
a
bike
rider
is
going
to
ride
somewhere
in
the
8
to
10
to
11
12
miles
range,
I'm
now
on
the
slower
end
of
the
spectrum
than
I
ever
was
you
know
than
I
was
on
the
fast
end.
I
get
up
to
24
miles
on
a
bike
now
and
I
think
I'm
I
I
can
sense
my
mortality,
maybe
the
reason
I
bring
that
up,
though,
is
these
facilities.
These
multi-use
trails
are
more
for
the
bike
riders
than
they
are
the
cyclists.
B
Yeah
perfect,
I
just
picked
up
cycling
a
year
and
a
half
ago
and
trying
to
you
know
become
an
avid.
The
other
thing
too
of
this
is
for
the
council
members.
I
know
for
the
residential
part.
I
like
option
one
and
option
three
now
question
for
jim
for
the
commercial
side.
Obviously
you
guys
had
feedback
from
the
community,
but
have
you
guys
reached
out
to
the
businesses
here
in
this
area
about
maybe
getting
their
input
good.
E
Question
we
have
inventoried
all
the
businesses
we
know
who
to
contact.
We
wanted
to
talk
to
you.
First,
it's
kind
of
a
chicken
in
the
egg.
Do
you
talk
to
the
city
commissioners
for
the
council
members
first,
or
do
you
talk
to
the
businesses?
First,
we
have
a
series
of
stakeholder
meetings.
We
have
several
more
and
this
is
going
to
be
the
one
of
the
topics
coming
up
on
the
stakeholder
discussions.
B
Okay,
I
have
a
business
here
in
in
this
area
in
downtown
and
I
think
the
owners
in
this
area
will
appreciate
if
they
were
invited,
so
they
could
give
feedback
and
also,
I
know,
there's
every
day
where,
there's
morning
lunch
time
afternoon,
we
always
have
delivery
trucks
and
the
only
park
on
certain
parts
of
the
street
is
on
some
of
the
avenues.
I
know
on
the
streets
there's
certain
parts
where
they're
not
allowed
to
park
to
deliver
delivered
goods,
but
I
think
they
should
at
least
provide
feedback
to
you
guys.
B
So
if,
once
this
is
put
together,
it's
all
in
conjunction
and
everybody's
happy
and
everybody
wins,
but
I
do
love
where
this
is
going
and
I've
been
to
some
cities
where
they
have
these
trails
and
I
rent
bikes
and
it's
pretty
cool.
I
enjoy
it
a
lot.
So
I'm
looking
forward
to
this,
oh
one,
one
last
thing
mike,
I
know
last
year
we
were
talking
about
the
financial
impact
in
this.
A
This
isn't
where
we
would
be
talking
about
the
cost
and
how
we
do
the
outlay
to
achieve
the
plan.
We
wait
until
the
plan
is
complete.
We
take
a
look
at
the
preliminary
estimates
for
different
segments
and,
at
that
point
in
time
we
talk
about
time,
frames
and
expenditures.
B
G
Real
quick,
I
love
the
trail
well,
first
off
good
job,
jim
and
lori.
I
think
you
all
did
a
fantastic
job,
good
presentation,
the
environmental
trail
along
the
golf
course.
I
I
really
like
that
as
long
as
chet's,
the
one
golfing,
because
if
it's
me
or
mike,
I
think
you're
taking
your
life
in
your
own
hands,
so
we'd
have
to
consider
the
safety
of
you
know
a
trail
along
a
golf
course,
because
I
know
that
there
may
be
some
errand
balls.
G
E
That's
an
excellent
point:
it's
when
this
was
brought
up.
We
started
researching
that
and
it's
surprising
how
many
trails
do
run
in
and
around
golf
courses
and
there's
a
lot
of
ways
to
address
the
errant
golf
ball
shots
so.
A
H
Thank
you,
I'm
glad
that
you
gave
kudos
for
his
golfing
abilities
and
that
he
wouldn't
be
the
one
knocking
people
off
their
bikes
or
whatnot.
So
thank
you.
I
like
the
whole
design
and
the
feel
and
all
that
some
concerns,
though
that
have
been
brought
to
my
attention,
end
up
being
in
the
residential
area,
specifically
in
south
jacks
beach,
because
there
have
been
properties
that
they
have
had
their
front
setbacks,
adjusted
to
a
point
where,
in
some
of
these
designs,
they
wouldn't
have
room
in
their
driveways
to
actually
fit
their
cars.
H
H
However,
in
reality
those
driveways
are
very
close
together
and
so
you'll
have
like
driveway
driveway
driveway
driveway
with
maybe
you
know
it's,
they
are
the
space
that
you
have
here
would
not
allow.
So
in
one
of
the
the
renderings
you
showed
it
showed
like
a
driveway
and
a
little
bit
of
a
buffer
and
a
a
curb
kind
of
a
thing,
and
you
wouldn't
be
able
to
do
that
specifically
in
south
jacks
beach
on
first
street,
just
because
of
how
development
has
developed
in
the
area.
So
it
makes
some
of
that
problematic.
H
So
I
don't
know
if
that's
an
area
that
you
really
need
to
look
more
into
and
like
do
a
walk
around
just
in
south
jack's
beach,
because
you'll
see
that
it's
it's
rather
unique
and
it's
tight
and
there's
just
not
a
lot
of
room
so
on
first
street
in
the
south
part
of
jacksonville
beach,
it's
already
a
one-way
road.
H
H
That
would
be
16th
south
all
the
way
down
to
37th,
which
brings
me
up
back
to
the
brings
me
into
a
next
question
from
37th
south
to
ponte.
Vedra.
Boulevard
first
street
was
not
noted
as
having
a
bike
as
having
one
of
these
paths,
so
it
was
just
it
just
ended
at
37th.
It
didn't
go
down
to
ponte,
vedra
boulevard
and
then
ponte
vedra
boulevard
is
what
goes
down
to
the
st
john's
county
line.
So
just
a
couple
things
to
note
there
and
some
concerns
that
I
have
heard.
E
Good
points,
I'm
just
as
we
get
into
some
of
the
details
on
some
of
these
corridors.
We
are
going
back
out
and
trying
to
figure
out
the
approximate
distances
between
the
edge
of
the
curb
or
the
edge
of
the
trail
in
the
front
yards.
I
understand
that
completely.
E
E
So
we're
trying
to
be
very
conscious
of
the
fact
that
we're
we're
going
to
hold
to
the
functional
area
of
the
street
as
much
as
possible
as
to
the
very
south
end
we're
still
working
on
how
to
make
the
con
the
connections
down
into
st
john's
county.
In
fact,
we
were
working
on
on
doing
some
mapping
and
stuff
last
friday,
just
before
the
weekend
right
here
in
the
office
to
try
and
work
that
out
so
right
now
the
map
gets
very
sketchy
when
you
get
down
to
the
very
south
end.
H
Oh
sorry,
before
sandy,
while
we're
thinking
about
the
south
end
and
you've,
noted
the
the
unique
difference
between
on
the
the
width
and
the
style
of
the
road
from
25th
avenue
south
down
to
37th.
K
Thank
you
and
thank
you,
jim
for
and
lori
for
all
all
that
you
guys
have
done
with
this.
So
far,
can
you
talk
because
you
you
touched
on
this
very
briefly:
can
you
talk
about
how
the
different
modes
would
be
would
be
handled?
Because
I
know
I've
had
several
people
ask
me
if
golf
carts
would
be
able
to
use
the
trail,
and
you
know
I.
K
I
know
that
you
discussed
this
some
in
one
of
the
in
one
of
the
workshops,
and
I
think
it's
important
to
share
the
details
about
you
know
exactly
what
modes
would
be
using
the
trail
and
then
how
that
would
be
managed,
because
I
would
be
concerned
that
we
would
end
up
seeing
golf
carts
on
these
trails
if
golf
carts
are
not
supposed
to
be
on
the
trails.
So
what?
What
is
the
thinking.
E
Yes,
ma'am
so
as
part
of
the
advertisement
for
this,
this
master
plan,
mr
fatigues,
put
in
their
policy
structure
request,
and
this
is
one
of
the
policy
structures.
So
we're
going
to
lay
this
out
to
you
in
the
in
the
document
from
a
policy
standpoint.
E
But
I'll
summarize
it
I'll
summarize
it
here
and
having
done
these
plans
before
when
you're
talking
multi-use,
you've
got
varying
speeds
of
we'll
say
people
movement
movement.
You
know
a
walker
moves
at
three
to
four
miles
an
hour
comfortably,
but
a
golf
cart
can
move
at
24
miles
an
hour.
That's
a
vast
difference
in
speed
and
that's
where
you
run
into
the
problems.
So
what
we're
going
to
try
and
do
is
lay
out
you
know.
Walkers
and
bike
riders
tend
to
be
more
compatible.
E
A
four
mile,
an
hour
speed
versus
a
seven
eight
nine
ten
mile,
an
hour.
Speed
is
more
compatible
together,
so
bikes
and
pedestrians
joggers
five
six
miles
an
hour,
rollerbladers
skateboarders
those
tend
to
fit
into
the
same
realm.
Where
you
get
worried
is
the
faster
the
vehicles
go.
So
golf
carts
tend
to
sit
up
at
the
upper
end
of
that
rain,
and
my
recommendation
policy
wide
would
be
to
not
allow
them
on
the
trail
but
to
allow
them
in
the
roadway.
E
E
So
that's
the
separation
right
there.
It
all
is
based
on
the
speed
of
travel
and
how
quickly
each
different
use
can
adjust
to
somebody
else
on
the
trail
and
and
golf
carts
just
don't
fit
that
bill
now
the
wild
card.
That's
new
is
what
do
you
do
with
these
new
e-bikes,
because
they
move
closer
to
a
golf
cart
speed
than
they
move
to
a
pedal
bike?
E
And
what
do
you
do
with
the
scooters
that
move
along
at
a
stunningly
fast
clip?
Sometimes
so
we're
working
on
that
and
researching
it
a
bit
more,
but
the
idea
is
to
keep
similar
speed
uses
together
on
the
trail
and-
and
I
think
then
you'll
have
a
a
better
environment
on
that
trail,
a
much
safer
environment.
E
K
Okay,
yeah,
I
I'm
glad
you
brought
up
the
e-bikes
because
I'm
a
jogger,
slash
runner,
whatever
you
want
based
on
my
speed,
whatever
whatever
I'm
classified
as
and
the
e-bikes,
definitely
they
go
pretty
fast,
and
so
that
was
a
that
was
another
one.
I
was
wondering
about.
So
do
you
have
any
knowledge
of
what
other
communities
are
doing
with
regards
to
e-bikes
on
these
trails.
E
E-Bikes
are
kind
of
the
the
wild
card,
like
I
said
same
thing
with
scooters,
and
a
lot
of
communities
are
starting
to
turn
it
into
an
enforcement
question
or.
A
E
Where
you
know
it's
yeah,
you
can
be
on
the
trail
as
an
e-bike,
but
you
can't
go
any
faster
than
10
miles
an
hour
same
thing
with
a
an
electric
scooter.
But
then
you
have
to
have
the
enforcement
arm
to
enforce
it
and
and
work
that
avenue
it's
been
fairly
successful
and
and
many
times
I
think
the
community
kind
of
comes
along
with
it
and
and
and
complies
with
it.
E
But
it's
it's
still
one
of
those
new
areas
and
you
you
experience
the
scooters
on
sidewalks
nowadays,
and
I
mean
I
in
my
neighborhood,
a
group
of
kids
got
scooters
for
christmas
and
the
first
question
the
aja
started:
asking
was:
where
can
they
ride
those
things?
You
know
they
seem
dangerous
in
the
street
and
they
seem
dangerous
on
the
sidewalk.
E
So
it's
a
question
that
that
we'll
just
keep
on
working
through
and
and
provide
you
an
answer
as
part
of
that
that
master
plan.
K
Okay-
and
the
only
other
comment
I
want
to
make
is
that
when
it
comes
to
first
street
and
the
concepts
you
know,
I
like
the
idea
of
having
a
nicely
separated
trail
from
the
roadway,
and
certainly
the
one
that
we're
looking
at
is
a
seven
foot
has
a
seven
foot
buffer,
and
you
know
I
guess
I
understand
the
concerns
too,
with
how
much
space
the
trail
is
going
to
take
away
from
any
of
the
driveways
that
currently
exist.
But
I
you
know,
I
like.
K
I
definitely
like
the
concepts
that
have
a
decent
amount
of
buffer.
I
definitely
do
not
want
to
see
us
have
something
that
that
was
like
one
of
the
previous
ones
that
was
a
two
foot
buffer
or
whatever,
whatever
that
was
that
you
had.
I
just
don't
think
that
that
would
be
safe,
and
so,
whichever
direction
we
go
in,
I
think
it
needs
to
have
a
a
good
size
buffer,
similar
to
the
one
that
you've
got
showing
on
the
screen.
Right
now,.
C
Thank
you
and
thank
you
for
the
presentation.
This
project
has
been
really
interesting
and
exciting
to
watch
kind
of
come
together
and
I
just
wanted
to
make
a
few
quick
comments.
I
love
the
eighth
street
concept
of
possibly
taking
over
one
of
those
lanes,
especially
because
of
how
many
kids
are
going
that
north-south
to
fletcher
high
school
fletcher
middle
in
san
pablo.
So
the
nice
thing
is
our
schools
are
kind
of
concentrated.
C
I
wish
we
had
been
in
this
mindset
when
we
were
redoing
the
drainage,
ditch
that
runs
all
along
eighth
or
parallel
to
eighth,
because
that
was
a
huge
multi-million
dollar
project
that
I
always
felt
like
had
room
for
a
little.
You
know
path
along
the
canal
there,
but
but
on
the
other
hand,
we
are
at
the
ground
floor
of
the
penman
road
project.
So
I'm
glad
that
we'll
we'll
be
at
the
table
in
in
terms
of
implementing
our
plan
there
downtown
first
street
downtown
is
already
a
shared
roadway.
C
So
it's
not
as
urgent
to
me
as
kind
of
the
rest
of
first
street,
and
I
will
say
our
citizens,
and-
and
probably
you
as
well,
you
mentioned-
were-
are
perplexed
by
the
part.
They
were
supposed
to
be
parking
spots,
but
then
we
realized
they
didn't
work.
So
we
put
up
signs
that
say
no
parking
or
parking.
Sometimes.
So
I'm
just
going
to
say
this
with
key
staff
members
listening
that
our
downtown
is
littered
with
signs
due
to
design
that
didn't
work
once
implemented.
C
So
I
would
love
to
not
keep
doing
that,
if
possible
or
to
fix
the
problems
and
be
able
to
take
the
signs
up
and
then
this
speaking
of
signs
can
we
establish
if
it's
a
separated
path,
can
we
just
establish
a
speed
limit
for
it.
I
Yeah
for
the
council
direction
requested.
I
I
I'm
good
with
this
option
three
or
making,
as
the
consultant
recommended,
making
it
one-way
travel
on
first
street.
It's
one
way
down
here
and
it
works
well.
First
street
in
the
commercial
segment
definitely
support
no
cars,
the.
What
do
you
call
closing
the
roadway
I've
spoken
on
that
one
before
and
comfortable
with
all
the
proposed
treatments
shown.
I
Thankfully,
I
won't
I'll
try
not
to
hit
anybody
on
the
golf
course
do
my
best
no
promises
and
if
I'm
comfortable
with
utilizing
the
undeveloped
right
away
as
long
as
we
give
our
citizens
ample
notice
of
what's
going
on
and
and
how
it's
going
to
be
a
benefit.
You
know
I've
got
a
right
of
way
with
an
at
t
box.
That
is
absolutely
no
benefit
in
my
front
yard,
but
that's
what's
allowed
to
happen,
so
I
would
much
rather
have
a
one
of
these
there
instead.
So
thank
you.
A
For
marin
council,
if
I
can
get
a
little
bit
more
clarification
on
that
last
direction
requested
if
you
take
a
look,
take
a
look
at
the
map
that
was
shown
to
you
by
the
consultant
in
the
southwest
portion
of
the
city.
A
There's
some
areas
of
undeveloped
right-of-way
that
are
in
people's
rear
yards,
and
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
you're
comfortable
with
us
proceeding
from
a
planning
perspective
of
looking
at
those
as
trail
developments,
knowing
that
for
some
of
those
people
right
now,
it's
a
quiet
backyard
and
it
may
turn
into
a
trail
that
has
street
lights
and
traffic
on
it
going
until
certain
times
of
the
day
or
evening.
A
So
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
you
were
all
comfortable
with
that.
Specifically,
the
area
that
we're
talking
about
is
basically
from
the
landfill
at
the
southwest
corner
of
the
trail
system,
heading
north
up
towards
osceola
avenue
and
then
ultimately,
up
behind
sea
breeze,
connecting
up
into
into
that
neighborhood.
A
H
A
B
Who's
going,
oh
yes
with
my
colleague,
chet
stokes,
said
about
making
in
the
downtown
area
no
cars.
I
could
agree
with
that,
but
if
we
were
to
move
forward
with
that,
what
would
we
do
about
the
hotels
that
are
on
first
street,
especially
in
the
main
corridor?
B
And
then
second,
if
we
were
to
do
that,
can
we
what
what
would
happen
to
the
delivery
trucks?
I
mean,
I
know,
there's
many
options.
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
downtown
is
not
overlooked
and
we
just
want
to
bring
in
the
people
that
have
businesses
here
to
have
at
least
an
opinion
on
this
before
it's
we
pull
the
plug
in
this
or
we
make
it
a
go.
That's
all.
K
Thank
you
mike
just
a
quick
follow-up
for
jim.
Perhaps
he
could
speak
to
the
backyard
trail.
Yeah
idea
is
that
something
that
you
can
share
with
us
in
your
experience?
What
have
you,
what
have
you
seen
or
in
other
communities?
How
does
it?
K
My
gut
would
say
that
it
might
have
a
positive
impact
on
property
values
to
be
in
close
proximity
to
a
trail
like
that?
But
then
again
I
I
don't
know
for
sure,
but
if
you
could
speak
to
how
well
received
that's
been
in
other
communities
and
then
also
whether
there
is
a
perceived
value
to
having
it
adjacent
to
a
residential
property
in
the
backyard
like
that.
E
So
councilmember
I
was
involved
in
in
building
a
trail
in
sarasota
county.
If
you've
been
down
there,
it's
called
the
legacy
trail
was
was
deeply
involved.
It
was
a
former
railroad
corridor
that
that
was
typically
a
hundred
feet
wide,
but
sometimes
down
to
about
60
or
70
feet
wide
a
lot
of
homes
backed
up
to
it
and
the
homeowners
had
worked
their
way
into
the
right-of-way
of
the
railroad.
Basically
it
mowed
down
into
it.
So
this
trail
was
a
lot
closer.
The
old
tracks
were
a
lot
closer
trains
weren't
using
it.
I
E
When
the
board
there
decided
to
put
a
trail
in,
we
got
a
lot
of
that
same
concern
of
people
are
going
to
come
into
my
backyard
people
are,
you
know
my
green
space
behind
my
house
is
gone
and
we
almost
went
house
by
house
and
figured
out
the
issues
trying
to
trying
to
to
to
buffer
that
as
best
we
could.
Sometimes
we
were
planting.
Sometimes
we
were
fencing.
Sometimes
we
were
putting
stuff
back.
E
The
trail
opened,
we
paved
it.
We
opened
the
board
moved
forward
with
it,
and
and
sometimes
we
never
solved
the
problems
for
the
people,
but
what
we
found
was
within
the
first
year
of
the
trail
being
open,
people
were
asking
for
gates
to
be
installed
in
the
fences
that
we
stole
installed
to
keep
people
out
of
backyards.
E
The
reason
they
wanted
the
gate
was
they
wanted
to
get
out
on
the
trail
from
their
yard.
They
just
that's
how
they
wanted
to
do
it.
The
argument
over
value
and
how
it
affected
the
home
value
is
kind
of
anecdotal,
but
we
ran
that
trail
that
that
railroad
corridor
went
through
you
know:
million
dollar
neighborhoods
to
you,
know
hundreds
of
thousand
dollar
neighborhoods.
E
So
I
think
you
list
the
amenities
in
your
house,
not
necessarily
the
detriments,
but
it
takes
some
time
to
get
to
that
I
mean
it
takes
some
people
getting.
You
know
it
takes
the
homeowners
getting
used
to
it
by
and
large,
I
think
nationwide.
These
add
value
to
the
properties
if
they're
done,
right
and
and
doing
them
right
means
working
with
the
individual
property
owners
almost
on
a
on
a
property
by
property
basis.
F
Nichols
I'm
not
opposed
to
moving
forward
with
this
and
just
doing
more
research,
maybe
some
reach
out
to
the
residents
and
stuff,
but
it
is.
It
is
current
city
right
of
way-
and
you
know
we're
having
we're
going
through
this
whole
process
and
we're
reaching
out
to
the
public
to
get
their
input,
so
basically
continue
down
that.
I
wouldn't
stop
right
now
with
the
potential
of
utilizing
this.
This
area.
A
Thank
you.
I
don't
see
any
more
hands
raised
from
council,
so
jim
I'd
like
to
thank
you
and
your
staff
for
the
presentation
and
the
discussion
tonight
on
the
urban
trails,
progress
and
some
of
the
policy
issues.
Do
you
you
and
your
staff
have
the
direction
you
think
you
need
keep
moving
forward
at
this
point.
A
And
thank
you
to
molly
and
jason
as
well.
That
ends
the
three
topics
that
we
were
going
to
cover
tonight.
We
still
have
report
outs.
If
any
of
the
council
members
want
to
report
out
on
anything
that
had
happened
since
the
last
briefing
that
they
are
responsible
for.
C
Sorry
mike,
I
wasn't
quick
enough
with
the
hand
but
just
to
let
everyone
know
that
I
talked
about
at
the
last
briefing
that
we
were
gonna,
do
a
separate
series
of
interviews
for
the
pension
board
nominees
and
include
the
pension
board
members.
C
C
My
thought
is
that
they
should
just
go
into
our
later
in
the
year
interview
cycle
instead
of
just
interviewing
them
now,
especially
if
we've
invited
other
pension
board
members
to
it.
So
just
want
to
make
sure
everybody's
comfortable
with
that.
Okay,
so
we'll
keep
the
other
boards
on
the
cycle
that
we've
already
established
and
we'll
pull
pension
board
out
to
do
those
separately,
as
we've
previously
discussed.
Thank
you.