►
From YouTube: Planning Commission Meeting (08/23/2021)
Description
You can view the PowerPoint that was presented at this workshop by clicking here: www.jacksonvillebeach.org/sites/default/files/jb_fair_park_mf_-_workshop.pptx
B
Discussion
good
morning,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
You
guys
may
remember
that
I
actually
spoke
to
this
issue,
not
the
issue
specific
to
the
placement
of
homes
on
the
marist
bank
site,
but
the
fact
that
parking
was
involved
and
that
we
have
been
speaking
now
for
years
about
updating
the
division
for
the
city,
the
comprehensive
plan
and
the
land
development
ranks,
and
I
was
kind
of
doing
that
both
to
remind
us
because
I've
been
on
the
commission
since
2016
and
we
haven't
done
it
yet,
but
also
to
get
it
on
the
record.
B
A
A
C
You're,
the
chair
pc-0921,
is
a
conditional
use
application
for
a
single-family
dwelling
at
property
located
in
the
commercial
limited
central
business
district
zoning
district
pursuit
into
section,
34,
345
d
9..
As
a
quick
aside,
if
you
were
to
look
at
the
community
code
for
this
particular
section
that
currently
lists
it
as
reserved
there
was
an
amendment
of
the
land
development
code
that
was
passed
a
few
years
ago
to
allow
for
single
family
in
the
central
business
district.
C
C
The
site
is
current
site
currently
has
a
2
unit,
multi-family
structure,
which
is
actually
likely
a
converted
single
family
in
2017,
the
land
development
code
was
amended
by
organs:
2017
1897,
which
added
single-family
dwellings
as
conditional
use
using
the
rs-3
zoning
district
standards
through
the
cbd
district.
Though
the
cpu
district
is
predominantly
commercial
and
multi-family
structure,
there
are
existing
single
family
and
room
for
additional
infill.
The
proposed
use
would
be
a
three-story
single-family
home
with
a
two-car
garage,
though
the
home
will
lack
driveway
space
for
overflow
parking
on
the
site.
C
It
does
have
a
large
driveway
apron
and
access
to
two
on-street
public
spaces
adjacent
to
the
second
avenue
south
side
of
the
property.
The
proposed
single
family
design
reflects
a
similar
footprint
to
existing
multi-family
structures
in
the
area.
The
new
design
will
take
into
account
the
requirements
for
clear
site
triangle
visibility
and
have
a
chamfered
first
floor
corner
at
the
intersection
for
all
their
uses
in
the
central
business
district.
C
Zoning
lot
coverage
is
at
80
or
90
percent
of
the
lot,
while
the
front
corner
setbacks
inside
setbacks
with
zero
and
the
rear
side,
ranging
from
zero
to
five
feet,
because
the
rs3
zoning
standards
are
more
akin
to
residential
subdivision
design.
The
project
will
require
some
subsequent
variances
slated
to
be
heard
by
the
board
of
adjustments
early
next
month.
The
proposed
single
family
dwelling
is
consistent
with
the
mixed
residential
and
commercial
character
of
the
area
and
should
not
negatively
impact
the
adjacent
properties.
A
The
manner
in
which
we
conduct
the
applications
is
that
staff
will
read
the
application
into
the
record,
as
mr
papoli
has
just
done
on
this
at
that
point,
if
the
applicant's
present
will
have
them
come
forward,
stating
their
name
and
address
fielding
any
questions
from
the
planning
commissioners,
I
don't
have
any
speaker
cards
this
evening,
but
if
I
had
speaker
cards,
then
anyone
wishing
to
speak
in
favor
or
in
opposition
to
the
application
would
be
invited
to
do
so
and
at
that
point,
public
portion
meeting
will
be
closed
and
then
discussion
will
be
between
the
applicant
staff
and
the
planning
commissioners,
keeping
in
mind
that
that
everything
that
we
consider
is
taking
into
consideration
section,
34,
234
231
and
the
11
standards
that
are
set
forth
in
the
land
development
code.
B
A
E
A
E
Got
a
question
from
mr
paulie:
what,
where
is
the
driveway?
On
this
I
mean.
C
C
What
isn't
necessarily
clear
as
well
on
the
site
plan
is
just
east
of
that
are
two
improved
on-street
spaces
as
well,
which
were
referenced
in
the
report.
C
C
Through
8-21,
chair
pc-0821
is
a
request
for
amendment
to
a
planned
unit
development
located
at
3818
third
street
south
planning
development,
umd
zoning
amendment
approval
at
the
previous
hearing
on
july
26th,
the
planning,
commission
and
applicant
agreed
to
a
deferral
of
the
proposed
pud
amendment
allowing
the
applicant
and
staff
to
develop
an
attempt
to
reach
a
consensus
on
new
conditions
related
to
the
proposed
pud.
C
The
previous
new
memo
has
been
provided
for
reference
staff
sent
the
revised
conditions
to
the
applicant
on
august.
4Th
staff
has
reviewed
and
reviewed
the
proposed
conditions
of
the
applicant
and
believes
that
the
proposed
conditions
meet
the
spirit
of
the
planning
commission's
comments,
as
well
as
address
the
concerns
of
the
applicant,
where
appropriate.
The
applicant
may
have
concerns
to
address
with
the
planning
commission.
C
However,
staff
recommends
the
following:
revised
conditions:
one,
the
outdoor
restaurant
area,
shallow,
shall
be
allowed
as
shown
on
exhibit
h,
site
plan
and
shall
not
require
conditional
use
approval
but
will
be
permitted.
All
outdoor
restaurant
areas
shall
adhere
to
the
requirements,
as
described
in
section
34
407
of
the
land
development
code,
except
those
portions
amended
by
this
ordinance,
as
they
pertain
to
seating
and
seating
allocation
number.
Two.
C
Creative
forms
of
barriers
may
be
considered
under
the
crime
prevention
through
environmental
design,
scepted
best
practices,
final
designs
of
barriers
to
be
determined
through
the
standard
design
review
process
number
four
outdoor
restaurant
areas
may
have
outside
speakers,
but
shall
be
limited
to
low
volume,
outdoor
amplified
and
acoustic
sound,
as
defined
in
section
18-7
of
the
municipal
code.
In
effect,
at
the
time
of
adoption,
number
five
outdoor
restaurant
area
shall
cease
operation
at
11
pm
monday
through
saturday
and
at
10
pm
on
sundays.
C
Number
six
outdoor
display
of
merchandise
shall
be
permitted
in
all
retail
locations,
as
shown
in
exhibit
h
site
plan.
However,
clear
sidewalk
access
shall
be
maintained
to
the
balance
of
the
shopping
centers
at
all
times,
and
a
clear
ada
compliant
path
be
maintained
at
all
times,
along
any
sidewalk
or
walkway.
C
One
quick
comment:
previously
there
was
some
language
related
to
fire
sprinklers
and
that
subject
matter
we're
going
to
defer
to
the
fire
marshall,
because
it's
really
his
call
anyway
and
just
removed
it
from
the
zoning
side
of
the
conversation.
F
Decision
on
this,
probably
I'm
looking
at
pc
210823
memo
that
was
delivered
to
my
own
via
and
on
page
six.
The
third
item
addresses
outside
speakers
on
jacksonville
drive
and
I
didn't
hear
you
say
anything
about
that.
In
fact,
once
you
got
past
number
two,
all
my
numbers
were
different
than
what
you
have.
C
Okay,
I
think
there
may
have
been
a
mistake
in
what
was
said
to
you
guys.
I
think
mr
demon
had
the
same
problem.
There
was
a
copy
of
the
memo
on
the
dice
when
he
came
in,
I'm
not
sure
if
that
was
what
was
sent
to
you
guys,
it
was
basically
a
updated
cover
memo
and
then
the
previous
one
was
included
in
the
packet.
Okay.
F
F
It
was
a
mystery
to
me
that
it
showed
up,
but
I
thought
maybe
some
common
sense
broke
through.
C
Okay,
so
that
was
initially
the
the
thought
process
was.
There
were
proposed
outside
restaurant
areas
that
were
near
the
main
entrance,
that
is
along
jacksonville
drive
and
that
might
present
some
conflict
after
the
discussion
at
the
planning
commission
hearing
the
last
time,
it
was
decided-
or
at
least
my
notes
reflected
that
we
would
simply
use
the
low
volume
requirement.
That's
pervasive
throughout
the
city
as
the
standard
which
basically
only
allows
low
volume
outside
speakers,
no
live
music.
That
sort
of
thing.
F
Well,
I
remember
that
conversation
as
well,
and
what
I
heard
was
mr
diva
now
say
multiple
times
that
low
volume
amplified
music
at
all
of
these
restaurant
sites
was
compatible.
It's
compatible
use
right.
I
disagree
because
I've
lived
there
through
low
volume
amplified
outside
music
and
I
don't
think
I
don't
think
that's
correct
and
I
just
wonder
what
what
assessment
came
through
your
staff
developer
team
working
through
this
to
provide
this
document
that
I
got
that
says
there
shall
be
no
outside
speakers
permitted
for
outdoor
restaurant
areas
adjacent
to
jacksonville
drive.
C
C
But
again
the
outside
amplified
low
volume
standard,
which
is
again
throughout
the
city.
Yeah,
that's
30
feet
5
feet
apart.
We
can
speak
right,
that's
the
standard
fireworks
display
as
well
yeah,
okay
at
any
rate,
rather
than
limiting
it
to
just
jacksonville
drop
down.
I
don't
hear
very
well.
C
The
intent
was
just
to
apply
the
same
standard
universally
because
it
is
allowed
in
the
rest
of
the
city
where
there
are
similar
proximities
to
residential.
But
again
that's.
F
Our
recommendation-
well,
I
would
just
point
out
here
at
this
point
before
we
get
started
too
far
in
that
there
is
a
governing
document
called
the
comprehensive
plan.
The
jacks
beach
23rd
comprehensive
plan
and
the
first
two
elements
in
it
for
land
use
are
quality
of
life
and
character
of
the
community
and
both
of
those
bear
on
this
because
they
applied
to
everybody
in
this
room
and
really
everybody
in
the
community
because
they
applied
to
the
mayor.
They
applied
to
the
council
members
they
applied
to
the
city
volunteers,
which
are
we
were
city
volunteers.
F
F
F
Don't
have
that
option
that
you
would
have
if
you
were
talking
to
a
realtor
about
buying
in
coconut
key,
they
can't
move
without
selling
and
if
they're
selling
people
are
going
to
ask.
Why?
Maybe
I
don't
know
how
they'll
do
it,
but
if
I
were,
if
I
were
looking
at
home
there
and
the
developer
told
me
or
the
realtor
told
me
the
truth,
I
wouldn't
buy
it.
F
F
You
know,
I
don't
think
they'd
like
that,
so
I
would
say
that,
based
on
the
quality
of
life
and
the
community
character,
that's
the
gold's
lu-1
landing
swan
and
landry's
1.4
drive
us
towards
the
decision
that
I
read
here
in
this
paper
that
was
delivered
to
me
by
the
planning
department.
That
says
there
should
be
no
outside
speakers
permitted
for
outdoor
restaurant
areas
adjacent
to
jacksonville
drive.
I
thought
that
was
a
reasonable
decision
and
then
my
follow-on
to
that
was
going
to
be
well.
F
F
Some
scraggly
some
longleaf
pines
that
have
all
their
foliage
up
on
the
top:
nothing
down
low
and
flat
concrete
going
across
the
street.
So
they're
going
to
hear
every
word
that
said
sitting
there
at
the
a
t
and
t
slash
applebee's
outside
seating,
and
that
goes
we
had
a
break.
We
did
get
a
break
on
this.
We
got
a
break
on
sunday
night.
It
only
goes
till
10
only
goes
drop
10
on
sunday
night,
the
rest
of
the
week.
It
goes
to
11..
F
If
we
look
at
the
comp
plan
when
we
apply
it
to
this
situation,
I
don't
think
mr
diebano's
assessment
last
week
that
it's
compatible
is
compatible
with
the
way
the
comp
plan
tells
us
to
look
at
these
things
and
I'm
not
happy.
I
really
am
unhappy
with
this.
This
no
outside
speakers
or
jacksonville
drive
got
dropped
so
now.
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
C
B
D
So
we
agree
with
the
six
conditions
that
were
outlined
in
the
in
the
staff
report
dating
august.
23Rd
is
the
only
issue
going
to
be
the
speakers?
I
guess
that
would
be
my
question.
I
guess
it's
for
everyone
or
is
it
everything
else?
Is
everything
else
to
look?
Okay,
mr.
E
Gmail
this
is,
I
was,
I
didn't,
make
the
last
meeting,
unfortunately,
but
I
do
have
some
questions
some
comments.
E
Reading
through
this,
can
you
just
talk
a
little
bit
about
first
of
all,
the
safety
around
these
new
outdoor
seating
areas
where
one
of
the
primary
ingress
egresses
of
the
shopping
center
yeah?
So
we
had
conversations.
D
D
What
I
think
after
the
conversation,
which
was
that
the,
if
there's
any
outdoor
restaurant
areas
adjacent
to
the
drive
aisles
that
there
has
to
be
some
some
sort
of
form
of
hardened
barrier
that
prevents
potential
vehicular
conflict
and
rather
than
micromanaging,
whether
it
was
going
to
be
ballers
or
an
iron
gate
or
an
aluminum
fence
or
boulders,
basically
set
that
up
as
the
criteria
and
then
allowed
the
final
design
to
be
determined
during
the
design
review
process.
D
So
that
was
one
way
that
they
were
protected.
The
other
one
is
in
condition
number
two
that
there
would
be
a
site
visibility
triangle
that's
referenced.
In
34
425
we
had
a
great
deal
of
conversation
about
site
visibility
triangles
on
public
streets
versus
interior
roads
and
rather
than
adopting
the
criteria
for
side
visibility
triangles
on
public
streets.
The
conditions
at
34
425
h
that
talk
about
the
visibility
triangle
on
internal
drive
lanes
and
parking
isles
would
be
implemented.
So
that's
a
10
foot
visibility
triangle.
D
E
Question
through
the
chair,
mr
pulley,
can
you
talk
about
the
final
design
for
these
barriers,
who
makes
the
final
determination
on
that?
So.
C
C
The
language
that
was
included,
although
seems
very
general,
is
actually
specific
to.
There
are
forms
of
target
hardening
that
deal
with
vehicular
barriers
that
are
designed
to
be
more
incorporated
into
the
landscape
or
the
parking
areas.
So
it
doesn't
appear
to
be
a
large,
concrete
bollock,
but
could
be
a
reinforced
planter,
that's
capable
of
stopping
a
car
but
looks
more
appealing
and
less
militaristic.
C
E
Yeah,
I
guess
my
I
mean
I'm
not
a
designer
of
the
ballards,
but
my
first
first
reaction
is
just
safety,
so
if
we're
comfortable
with
that
language
from
a
city
standpoint
that
the
patrons
there
at
the
restaurant
are
protected,
that
would
that
would
be
my
question.
Yeah
I
mean
that
was
certainly
clear.
A
Are
you
opposed
to
if
we
didn't
want
to
call
out
specifically
that
they're
going
to
be
either
concrete
or
steel
ballers
that
we
that
we
call
out
the
criteria
that
a
minimum
astm,
I
think
c40
is
the
one
that
allows
for
a
car
at
30
miles
an
hour,
even
though,
theoretically
nobody
should
be
going
30
miles
an
hour,
but
you
know
grandma
or
grandpa.
A
It's
the
accelerator
versus
the
brake
can
have
a
turn
or
whatever
stuff
does
happen,
and
none
of
us
can
guarantee
anything
if
we
called
out
sort
of
that
minimum
rating
and
then
whatever
they
want
to
put
there
as
long
as
it
meets
that
rating.
C
A
Astm
c40
is
sort
of
the
minimal
one
that
is
intended.
I
still
think
that
allows
for
a
barrier
to
be
moved,
something
like
24
inches,
which
you
know.
If
you
have
somebody
right
there
at
a
table
could
be
bad
but
24.
You
know
if
there's
a
whole
bunch
of
tables
on
one
of
those
corners,
24
inches
is
certainly
better
than
allowing
a
car
to
pile
right
up
through
the
crowd.
C
A
So
if
we
were
to,
I
would
recommend
modifying
item
number
three
to
call
out
that
astm
c40
rating
and
leave
it
up
to
the
developer.
The
applicant
to
you
know
achieve
that
in
whatever
manner.
A
E
F
E
Okay,
mr
demon,
now
you
asked
for
any
other.
The
only
other
question
I
had
is,
I
thought
I
saw
in
here
about
overnight.
I
know
we're
adding
display
merchandise
on
the
onto
the
outside.
Is
there
any
language
that
that
requires
them
to
bring
that
merchandise
in
at
night,
so
that
we
don't
have
a
bunch
of
display
stuff
there
overnight.
B
D
Well
again,
I
think
the
distinction
that
we
were
having
in
the
conversation
previously
was
that
for
folks
that
were
going
to
have
permanent
stuff
that
stayed
outside
that
they
needed
to
be
sprinkled.
The
stuff
was
coming
in
and
that
would
be
like
home
depot.
For
example,
if
there
was
stuff
coming
in
and
out
every
night
like
the
bird
store,
the
bird
feed
store
that
that
wouldn't
necessarily
need
to
be
sprinkled
because
stuff's
coming
in
and
it's
temporary
or
seasonal.
D
So
we
kind
of
had
the
conversation
about
sprinkling
in
the
context
of
permanent
versus
temporary,
since
the
sprinkling
has
been
kind
of
put
off
on
fire
commercial
that
took
away
the
sprinkling
conversation
so
now,
you're
raising
another
issue
which
we're
certainly
happy
to
have
your
conversation
about
it
tonight.
That's
the
reason
why
the
distinction
was,
I
think,
lost.
E
D
You
know
when
we
deferred
the
sprinkler
no
swing
of
this.
You
do
the
fire
marshall,
then
that
really
kind
of
leads
it
up
to
the
fire
marshall,
to
tell
us
when
we
have
to
have
sprinklers
okay,
so
you
know,
if,
if
you
like
less
than
permanent
outside
display,
then
we
probably
need
to
have
a
conversation
about
it.
If
you
want
there
to
be
a
temporary
daytime
only
display,
then
you
probably
need
to
have
a
conversation.
E
D
D
D
B
A
A
I
would
like
to
add
that
there
shall
be
no
overnight
merchandise
or
displays
of
merchandise
left
outside,
except
in
parcel
4,
which
is
home
depot
steve,
and
you
know
I
was
just
going
to
thank
you
use
the
word
display
because
I
think
patrick
said,
storage,
there's
the
distinction,
so
you
made
the
distinction
in
your
condition.
That's
great!
It's
the
display
permanent
display
versus
temporary
display,
because
there's.
A
F
My
opinion
lights
out
for
a
schoolhouse,
a
house
that
has
kids
in
it
to
go
to
school
is
10
o'clock.
It's
not
11
o'clock
and
if
you're
2.1
lots
away,
you're
gonna
hear
what's
going
on
at
two
independent
operations
with
all
kinds
of
cars
all
over
the
place.
People
leaving
doing
the
intercoastal
bridge
run
on
their
motorcycles
and
tuner
cars
running
up
there
and
jamming
up
that
that
hill
every
once
in
a
while
the
police
know
that
guys
will
get
splattered
on
there.
F
A
Guys
a
question:
what
do
you
think
about
making
it
10
o'clock
sunday
through
thursday
11
o'clock,
friday
and
saturday,
and
I
think
steve-
was
asking
about
this
to
begin
with,
adding
that
there
shall
be
no
outside
speakers
permitted
for
outdoor
restaurant
areas,
adjacent
to
jacksonville
drive
and
then
just
pick
up
where
number
four
does
other
restaurant
areas
may
have
outside
speakers,
but
shall
be
limited
to
blah
blah
blah
blah
blah.
D
F
We
recognize
the
commercial
realities,
we
recognize
what
the
web
did
during
the
covet
period.
We
understand
space
needs
to
be
filled
with
with
paying
tenants
that
can
pay
the
rent.
We
understand
that,
but
that
doesn't
mean
that,
because
somebody
owns
a
shopping
center,
they
can
step
on
their
neighbors.
That
isn't
what
it
means,
and
I
was
looking
for
a
little
cooperation
and
broad
consensus
from
you
on
that,
but
maybe
we're
not
going
to
get.
I
don't
think
we
are,
but
I
sure
wish
we
could
and
I
did
the
best.
F
I
could
to
explain
what
the
comprehensive
plan
says
about
that
and
I
did
my
best
to
explain
what
the
noise
is
and
the
distance
and
the
effect
it's
going
to
have
on
the
neighbors.
Now,
if
you
choose
to
ignore
that,
that's
fine
and
I
won't
speak
about
it
anymore,
because
I
think
I've
covered
it
and,
like
you
said
we
have
a
tape,
but
I
don't
remember
saying
to
you
that
I
thought
you
should
stay
open
until
11
o'clock
on
weeknights.
D
Music
that
we're
talking
about
is
music
like
what
you
hear
in
an
elevator.
This
isn't
a
band.
This
isn't
a
boom
box.
This
arm.
These
aren't
speakers
that
are
pointed
towards
the
neighborhood.
This
isn't
you
know
whatever
you
describe
whatever
condition
you
described
previously
about
outdoor
music
and
that
stuff?
D
That's
that's
not
what
we're
talking
about
what
we're
talking
about
is
music
that
you
hear
for
ambiance
when
you're
sitting
and
waiting
to
go
to
sit
down
inside
when
you
or
when
you
are
sitting
outside
we're
not
talking
about
a
selection
of
music,
that's
there
for
entertainment.
What
is
that?
Can
I
ask
this
question
because
I
think
it's
relevant,
because
I
think
it's
going
to
go
this
way.
D
Well,
you
you've
been
equivocated,
you've
been
a
quote:
you've
been
equating
people
speaking
to
to
ambiance
music,
I
mean
that's
sort
of
what
you've
been
saying
is
that
the
people
speaking
is
about
the
same
size
same.
F
D
Of
situations,
okay,
well,
I
mean
it's
like
so
many
different
thoughts.
There
are
people
outside
in
the
outback
state
house
right
now,
which
is
directly
across
third
street.
It's
200
feet
away
from
the
next
closest
house
directly
across
third
street.
How
many
noise
complaints
have
there
been
from
the
houses
across
third
street
from
the
outback?
D
F
Is
and
we
don't
know,
who's
unhappy
over
there?
My
question
wasn't
about
outback
steakhouse.
My
question
was
about
south
south
the
south
park
here
that
we're
talking
about
and
who
do
we
call
who
do
those
people
from
coconut
geek
call
like
anything.
You.
D
F
D
F
Leave
the
restaurant
drunk
and
jump
over
the
fence
and
go
in
their
backyard.
What
are
you
going
to
do?
That's
a
good
straw
dog,
but
it
doesn't
work
well,
but
that's
because
we've
got.
We've
got
five.
Other
standards
here
that
we're
gonna
approve
the
only
we're
talking
about
is
immediately.
F
A
You
know
the
music
itself
not
really
an
issue
so
much
the
you
know
potential
later
at
night,
a
bunch
of
people
and
alcohol
is
that
that
noise
that
could
occur,
that
comes
from
that
crowd,
not
from
the
amplified
music.
I
don't
think
at
all.
At
that
point
I
think
the
amplified
music
is
is
admit.
A
You
know
that
has
some
validity
to
it.
It
just
does,
but
you
know
steve's
point
as
far
as
the
clientele
that
they're
going
to
be
able
to
draw
is
also
an
issue.
E
D
D
D
D
Yeah
I
mean
yeah,
we
are
trying
to
build
space.
We
are
trying
to
get
to
get
revenue.
Of
course
that's
part
of
it,
but
it's
also
so
that
it's
a
good
quality
place.
I
mean
there's
a
there's,
a
quality
factor
here
as
well
having
somebody
in
there
that's
a
good
quality
tenant
is
better
than
having
a
car
for
everybody,
for
everybody's
property
values
and
for
everybody's.
G
G
Secondly,
your
argument
that
you're
not
going
to
get
quality
tenants
in
there
over
a
five
five
day
period,
60
minutes
a
day,
that's
300
minutes.
I
don't
think
that
that
holds
water,
just
as
you
were
trying
to
say
that
mr
dahl's
argument
that
everyone
is
going
to
wake
up
in
the
morning
and
call
the
police
or
you
know,
call
the
city
and
say
hey
this.
This
is
too
loud.
I
think
you
can
still
get
quality
tenants
in
there.
You
know-
and
you
can
always
come
back
and
ask
them
to
change
the
code.
C
So
the
condition
related
to
low
volume,
music
indication
related
to
hours
of
operation
were
separate
one
of
the
reasons,
as
he
pointed
out,
eighteen
seven
actually
limits
low
body
music
to
ten
pm
has
to
cut
off
so
really
the
seating
could
be
available
till
whenever,
but
the
music
has
to
stop
regardless
at
10
o'clock.
So
the
question
of
how
long
it's
open
is
really
going
to
be
to
the
conversational
volume
of
people
versus
the
music.
C
E
C
There's
not
a
set
standard,
I
mean
certainly
there's
been
more
discretion,
I
think,
given
towards
ones
that
are
near
the
central
business
district
versus
ones
that
are
more
awful
like
penman,
and
things
like
that,
which
you
know
yeah.
D
Throughout
the
city
now
so
bone
fish
is
open
until
11
30
at
night,
whiskey
jacks
is
open.
Till
1am
they've
got
that
residential
behind
them.
I'm
not
just
getting
data,
no
idea
what
the
status
of
complaints
might
be,
but
there's
no
there's
no
standard,
and
certainly
these
are
cutting
off
of
10
o'clock.
D
I
I
guess
we
just
have
a
very
fundamental
difference
of
how
the
last
meeting
went,
because
I
have
my
notes.
What
I
was
asking
for
and-
and
it
is
12
a.m-
monday
through
monday,
through
saturday
11
pm
on
sundays.
I
scratch
that
out
and
I
circle
10
pm
on
sundays
and
at
11
pm
monday
through
saturday.
D
B
E
Question
through
the
chair
I
mean
this
is
I'm
putting
myself
in
these
guys.
You
know
they
get
a.
E
They
get
a
a
restaurant
that
shows
monday
night
football
games,
you
know,
what's
the
guess,
you
have
to
watch
it
just
curious.
I
mean
low
volume
cut
offs
at
10,
so
if
the
tv's
on
they
gotta,
they
gotta
shut
the
volume
off,
no
matter
what
that's
still,
they
can
still
project
it
outside
outside
yeah,
but
the
the
people
are
gonna
stay
for
that
right,
but
they
can
shut
the
tvs
off
and
still
project
the
screen
and
people
can
still
hang
out
until.
C
D
So
would
you
say
that
you
know
kind
of
going
on
that
idea?
Are
you
saying
that,
like
outdoor
restaurant
service
would
stop
at
a
certain
time,
or
are
you
saying
so
so
our
door
service
would
stop
sunday
through
thursday
at
10
is
what
you
said
and
then
it
would
stop
at
11
o'clock
on
friday
and
saturday
nights,
so
the
indoor
could
still
be
open.
F
D
I'm
going
to
put
yeah
just
say
like
if
it's
outdoor
outdoor
service
stops.
Maybe
that
condition
number
five
says:
outdoor
restaurant
service
service
shall
cease
operations
at
10
pm
sunday
through
sunday,
through
sunday
through
thursday
and
11
p.m.
Friday,
saturday.
F
I
think
it
should
be
include
the
people
on
a1a2,
because
they're
they're
only
five
lots
away
with
nothing
between.
A
D
E
G
F
A
So
back
to
mr
dahl's
original
point.
Originally
we
were
dealing
with.
There
shall
be
no
outside
speakers
permitted
for
outdoor
restaurant
areas,
adjacent
to
jacksonville
drive
and
then
so
we
were
still
considering
that
with
other
restaurant
areas,
meaning
the
one
where
the
att
store
is
today
and
the
other
one
is
just
flat
against
the
south
yeah
other
restaurant
areas
may
have
outside
speakers
that
shall
be
limited
to
low
volume.
Outdoor,
provide
an
acoustic,
sound.
A
E
G
C
G
B
D
D
Maybe
you
could
put
a
condition
that
says
on
the
jack
speech
side
that
the
speakers
have
to
be
pointed
away
from
the
neighborhood
so
that
you
know
the
speakers
are
undercover
of
the
main
structure
and
pointed
away
from
the
neighborhood
or
something
like
that,
because
I
guess
theoretically
put
a
speaker
out
on
the
sidewalk
and
point
it
back
at
the
neighborhood,
but
I
mean
no
we're
just
we're
we're
getting
into
about
a
thousand
cuts.
I
mean
it's
it's
already.
D
Turning
off
at
10
o'clock,
it's
an
enforceable
standard
type
of
people
that
we're
attracting
here
are
not
the
types
of
people
that
went
there.
Historically,
I
don't
know
what
else
to
say
I
mean
I
I
just
limiting
it
further
at
eight
o'clock
is
just
not.
G
D
E
As
a
suggestion,
if,
if
we're
split
on
this
sounds
like
we're
kind
of
split
on
this
up
here,
but
hear
me
out
if
we
were
to
grant
the
the
outdoor
music
for
you
know
under
the
low
volume
standards
and
we
imposed
they
come
back
after
one
year,
should
there
be
no
incidents?
D
Back
so
I'd
like
to
evacuate
us
at
the
hours,
I'm
just
kidding,
that's
a
good
idea.
Mr
sanders,
I
would
suggest
leaving.
D
Is
the
is
the
12-month
look
back
only
because
I'm
not
familiar
with
what
you
did
for
whiskey
jacks?
Was
that
like
a
mandatory
come
back
to
12
months,
or
was
it
if
you
get
a
certain
number
of
code
complaints?
It's
a.
A
D
D
F
F
Well,
mr
chair,
that's
what
I
was
going
to
ask:
let's
clean
this
up
a
little
bit.
Are
we
done
with
the
proponents.
D
I
just
have
one
question:
astm,
let's
get
number
four:
are
there
any
questions
on
number
four
or
do
people
generally?
Do
people
generally
agree
with.
A
A
C
A
Done,
I
think
I
think
six
is
done,
because
we
said
that
there
shall
be
no
overnight
merchandise
or
displays
left
on
sidewalks
outside
of
parcel
four,
as
an
additional
sentence.
Number
six.
B
Mr
chairman,
can
I
just
clarify
in
number
five
outdoor
restaurant
services
or
service
chelsea
separation,
as
opposed
to
areas
chelsea
separation?
So
I
think.
D
Yeah,
this
isn't
a
workshop.
I
don't
see,
I
just
don't
see
astm
standard
c40
anywhere.
I
look
at
it
online
and
it's
about
organics
material.
So
I
don't
know
what
the
use
of
an
astm
standard
is
on
on
the
condition
number
three
anyway.
So
that's
I'm
just
bringing
it
out
there,
because
I
don't
know
that.
I
don't
know
what
we
are
agreeing
to.
If
that
standard
isn't
served
as
a
condition,
I
think
the
way
it's
read
or
the
way
it's
written
gives
the
staff
and
the
permanent
folks
the
ability
to
determine
common
design
right.
A
D
F
Mr
chair,
who,
who
who
put
the
words
crime
prevention
through
environmental
design,
best
practices
for
mr
pipoli?
Did
anybody
know
where
that
came
from
that
was
right?
Okay,
and
what.
C
Does
that
mean
so
it's
a
standard
of
best
practices?
That's
applied
to
a
bunch
of
different
aspects
of
planning.
In
this
particular
case,
things
like
target
hardening
which
deals
with
vehicle
collision
prevention,
particularly
into
buildings,
and
things
like
that.
The
standards
allow
them
to
be
non-uh,
militaristic,
not
strict,
concrete
wallets,
but
they
can
be
alternative
designs
like
planters
or
flagpoles,
or
things
like
that
that
are
innocuous
to
the
public.
So
they
don't
look
well.
Thank
you.
I
think
that's
a
good
standard,
mr
chair.
E
C
E
A
The
detail
behind
it
steve
is
that
a
5
000
pound
vehicle
at
30
miles
an
hour
again.
That's
where
I
made
the
reference
earlier.
Let's
hope
nobody's
going
30
miles
an
hour
right
there,
but
we
can't
all
predict
that
that
it
would
stop
that
vehicle
within
24
inches
of
the
barrier.
A
So
if
there's
something,
we
won't
call
out
bollard
in
there
unless
that's
the
pleasure
of
the
commission,
but
that's
the
standard
that
I
would
like
to
see
in
that,
and
I'm
not
sure
that
what
mr
papali
has
called
out
here
with
this
cpted
goes
to
that
granularity
yeah!
That's
what
I'm
not
comfortable
with.
B
C
A
I
mean
you
know
there
are
bottlers
that
are
put
up.
That
then
have
these.
You
know
like
plastic,
decorative
things
that
look
like
they're,
metal
or
cement,
or
something
and
they're
really
nothing
more
than
plastic
covers,
of
course,
that
plastic
cover
does
nothing.
It's
just
an
aesthetic,
so.
D
A
A
A
A
A
D
D
D
Yeah,
so
that's
I
agree.
Let's
just
make.
Let's
just
add
that
to
the
end
of
number
four,
okay
and
the
other
thing
is,
I'm
sorry.
I
didn't
hear
on
the
separation
between
the
volumes.
The
standard
says
that
it
stops
the
car
with
it.
So
there's
no
more
than
24
inches
of
penetration,
but
it
doesn't
set
the
standard
between
the
bombers.
B
C
D
My
experience
is
that
what
you've
created
on
the
record
already
is
sufficient
for
the
motion
and
for
for
mr
pulley
to
capture
when
he
drafts
the
report
it
because
of
the
council.
If
this
were
the
final
stop,
I
might
say
otherwise,
but
I
I
really
believe,
there's
enough
in
the
record
for
mr
papoli
to
capture
everything
and
keep
without.
A
Anytime,
I
give
you
a
fact
and
then
someone
will
have
to
make
a
motion.
Since
I
cannot
okay,
they
can
make
a
motion
off
of
what
I
would
yeah.
Can
you
just
I'm
sorry
state
what
our
evidence
are
to
this
and
then
we
conduct
emotions.
A
A
A
A
D
E
Motion
to
approve
what
was
just
stated
as
the
edits
written
into
the
spoken
into
the
record
by
mr
chairman.
E
C
Mr
propoli
planning
department
report
quick
reminder
that
next
wednesday
we
have
another
town
hall
meeting
this
time
on
the
marina
project
to
the
north
of
beach
boulevard,
and
then
I
don't
have
a
final
date
but
towards
the
middle
of
september.
Hopefully,
we'll
have
a
training
with
council
provided
by
our
contract
attorney
for
land
use
matters,
so
we'll
be
going
in
with
a
date
on
that.
I'm
sorry.
C
So
then,
we'll
be
covering
comprehensive
plan.
Zoning
land
development
issues
so.