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From YouTube: Board of Adjustments Committee Meeting 111720
Description
Board of Adjustments Committee Meeting 111720
A
C
A
A
A
C
A
A
C
Thank
you
very
much
board
members
building
and
planning
departments
staff.
It's
a
pleasure
to
have
you
here
today
if
everybody
could
mute
their
mic
and
the
reason
for
that
is.
We
want
to
maintain
the
best
audio
quality.
We
can
we're
recording
this
and
so
it'll
be
on
youtube
for
future
reference.
If
anybody
wants
to
refer
back
to
this,
whether
that's
staff
or
board
members
or
the
public,
if
you
forget
to
mute
yourself,
I
I
will
mute
yourself
if
there's
feedback
issues,
please
don't
be
offended
by
that.
C
C
Okay,
so
with
that
said,
let's
get
along
with
the
training
we're
looking
at
like
30
minutes
for
this
training.
We
do
have
some
new
individuals
who
have
never
new
staff
members
who,
who
may
not
have
had
this
training
and
I
believe
there
might
be
a
board
member
who
missed
the
training
last
time.
So
this
is
going
to
be
new
for
some
folks
and
for
others,
it'll
be
it
will
be
old,
but.
A
C
We're
going
to
go
over
today
the
rules
governing
the
board
board
of
adjustment.
How
board
of
adjustment
meetings
should
be
conducted,
the
ethical
guidelines
that
are
required
by
the
city's
charter
and
we'll
just
open
up
for
general
discussions?
Should
you
have
any
questions
about
how
things
work
so
and.
C
C
C
But
then
the
city
has
specific
police
powers
that
have
been
given
it
to
given
to
it
by
the
state.
The
federal
constitution
has
a
clause
where
it
reserves
all
powers,
not
ex
explicitly
spelled
out.
It
says
those
are
powers
that
belong
to
the
state,
and
then
the
states
get
to
determine
what
kind
of
powers
go
to
the
cities
and
so
really,
when
we
talk
about
local,
govern
local
rules
here
in
laredo,
all
of
our
power,
all
of
it
at
a
local
level,
is
derived
from
the
state.
The
state
can
give
us
more.
C
Sometimes
it
can
take
it
back,
and
so
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
the
texas
local
government
code,
because
that's
a
big
part
of
where
our
rules
for
the
board
of
adjustment
come
from.
That's
something
the
state
is,
has
ruled
on
and
sometimes
comes
back
to
and
redefines,
and
then
of
course
we
have
planning
and
development
powers
again.
Those
are
from
the
state,
but
those
are
powers
on
how
things
are
developed
and
laid
out
where
things
can
go
where
what
uses
and
and
what
types
of
buildings
etc.
C
C
C
C
That's
going
to
create
some
issues
with
your
neighbors,
and
so
a
big
reason
that
we
regulate
land
development
is
to
make
sure
that
that
that
we
put
like
uses
by
like
uses
so
that
we
can
minimize
issues
overall.
What
we
want
to
do
is
create
a
good
quality
of
life
for
the
people
that
have
to
to
live
and
work
together
in
a
community.
C
Now
we
do
that
through
our
ordinances,
our
zoning
subdivision
and
unified
development
codes
and
through
development
agreements.
Now
ordinances
are
rules
that
are
put
in
place
by
the
city
council.
So
are
our
zoning
and
subdivision
rules?
Those
are
all
really
ordinances.
Developer
agreements,
something
a
little
different.
Those
are
agreements
that
the
city
enters
into
with
specific
developers
where
we
might
decide
hey.
These
are
the
rules,
but
can
we
add
some
extra
rules
on
top
of
it
and
you'll
get
some
benefit?
C
So
these
are
just
a
little
bit
of
of
kind
of
overall
give
you
an
overall
picture
of
the
city
and
the
rules
that
we
have
specifically
for
here
for
the
city.
If
you
ever
need
to
reference
this,
you
come
back
to
this
training
to
know
where
we
get
these
rules
in
the
state:
local
government
code,
the
lgc
chapter,
211,
212
and
213..
C
Those
have
all
the
rules.
We
just
discussed
about
local
governments,
the
zoning
authority,
the
subdivision
authority,
the
the
authority.
We
have
to
divide
up
properties
into
lots
and
then
the
the
rules
that
are
there
that
we
have
to
have
a
plan.
So
if
you,
google,
texas
local
government
code,
chapter
211
or
212
or
213
you'll,
get
those
specific
rules
and
they're
not
really
that
long.
If
you
ever
wanted
to
read
through
them
also,
we
have
our
city
charter,
our
land
development
code
and
our
subdivision
ordinance
the
city
charter,
that's
on
the
city's
main
web
page.
C
If
you,
google,
laredo
city
charter,
will
pop
right
up
the
land
development
code
and
the
subdivision
ordinance
are
on
our
website.
Let
me
bring
that
up
the
cityofloreno.com
planning,
that's
our
planning
department
website
and
there's
some
buttons
in
the
middle.
We've
got
our
land
development
code,
those
are
our
city,
ordinances,
specific
to
land
development,
and
then
we've
got
our
subdivision
ordinance.
C
The
comprehensive
plan
for
the
city
that
was
adopted
in
in
2017
stated
that
we
need
to
update
our
code
to
reflect
the
vision
of
the
city.
So
we're
actually
involved
in
that
right
now
and
very
soon
we're
going
to
be
coming
back.
We'll
probably
call
another
meeting
to
get
your
opinion
on
some
of
the
changes
we'll
make
into
the
land
development
we're
going
to
do
that,
planning,
commission
city
council
as
well,
and
then
we're
going
to
bring
it
out
to
the
we're
going
to
email
it
out
to
the
whole
public.
C
C
You
know
that
came
out
of
the
comprehensive
plan,
so
there's
going
to
be
changes
like
that.
You
know
in
those
three
categories
combining
making
things
simpler,
bringing
things
into
compliance
with
new
rules
and
then
following
our
comp
plan
and
changing
our
rules
to
what
the
public
has
said.
They
wanted.
F
Remember
one
thing
that
we've
always
discussed
is
the
fact
that
if
we
make
a
decision
and
tell
somebody,
you
know
deny
the
approval
of
a
a
variance
many
times,
these
people
are
going
back
and
doing
it
anyway.
Yes,
and
what
I'm
hoping
that
the
committee
would
be
looking
for
is
something
that
had
a
little
bit
more
teeth
in
it.
C
Yes,
those
are
issues
that
we
addressed
when
we
looked
through
our
enforcement.
We
went
through
with
all
city
staff,
took
quite
a
quite
a
lot
of
time,
many
many
hours
of
time,
but
we
went
through
staff
and
said:
where
are
the
problems
in
the
code?
That
was
one.
Mr
orozco,
you
remember
that
conversation,
our
our
zoning
enforcement
supervisor,
where
we
talked
about
he
gave
us
his
feedback.
Like
exactly
what
you
said
in
some
areas,
there
needs
to
be
some
more
teeth,
so
those
are
those
are
issues
we
discussed.
C
C
The
city
makes
legislative
decisions,
ministerial
decisions
or
administrative.
You
could
call
it
decisions
and
then
quasi-judicial
decisions.
So
legislative
decisions
are,
you
know,
typically
well,
not
typically
they're
exclusively
done
by
the
city
council.
You
know
if
somebody
is
requesting
a
zone
change,
essentially
what
they're
saying
is.
Can
we
use
our
property?
Can
we
put
this
type
of
thing
here
and
the
state
has
decided
that's
a
legislative
decision.
C
You
can,
you
can
decide,
you
will
like
it
there
or
you
don't
like
it
there,
and
if
the
majority
of
the
elected
officials
like
want
to
use
the
property
want
to
see
that
property
be
used
that
way
they
can
use
their
their
discretion
their
to
say.
Yes,
that's
what
we
think
and
and
legislative
acts
are
also
all
the
rules
that
we
put
in
place
all
the
ordinances
when
we
change
the
ordinance
or
we
change
the
city
charter.
Those
are
all
legislative
decisions.
C
They
have
to
be
made
in
an
open
meeting
with
public
input
where
the
public
can
have
a
say
as
well.
Now,
once
the
rules
are
made
and
the
rules
need
to
be
followed.
You
know
a
long
time
ago,
200
years
ago
there
was
just
city
councils
in
cities
and
what
they
found
is
not
only
did
they
have
to
make
all
the
legislative
decisions,
but
then
anybody
came
to
do
a
rule.
C
They
had
to
handle
those
too,
and
it
was
just
too
much
so
it
became
common
practice
as
cities
evolved
in
the
united
states
to
create
boards
to
carry
out
the
rules
that
this
that
the
city
council
put
in
place.
So
a
good
example
is
city.
Council
says
this
is
what
belongs
here
and
then
someone
comes
in
to
actually
build
on
that
lot.
C
They
don't
have
to
come
back
to
the
city
council
again
now
they
go
to
the
planning
commission
who
says:
okay,
these
are
what
the
rules
are
and
you
either
meet
the
rules
and
get
to
build
it
or
you
don't
meet
the
rules.
You
can't
build,
it's
no
longer
a
decision
of.
Oh,
I
don't
like
this
developer.
I
don't
want
to
be
built
there.
No,
it's
a
administrative
or
a
ministerial
decision
and
then
finally,
there's
quasi-judicial.
C
Decisions
like
the
board
of
adjustment
is
a
is
a
quasi-judicial
body,
where
somebody
is
making
a
case
that
well
that
we
tried
to
follow
the
rules,
but
the
rules
shouldn't
apply
because
there
was
something
that
went
wrong
or
we
needed
exception,
and
then
you
sit
as
judges
or
quasi
judges
to
say
not
only
not
only
about
the
rules
being
followed,
because
sometimes
the
rules
can't
be
specific
enough
to
address
certain
problems.
So
then
you
have
to
use
your
best
judgment
to
say
is
an
exception
to
the
rules
warranted
here.
C
So
those
three
types
of
decisions
the
city
make,
but
I
want
you
to
think
about
it
as
well
as
changing
the
rules
versus
allowing
exceptions
as
the
board
of
adjustment.
You
shouldn't
be
changing
the
rules.
Your
decision
should
be
hey.
Do
the
rules
here?
Are
they?
Are
they
written
in
such
a
way
that
it
didn't
anticipate
this
case?
And
in
this
case
we
need
to
allow
an
exception
or
we're
we're
hurting
this
individual
we're
going
to
get
a
little
bit
more
into
that?
What
that
means.
C
So
now
talking
about
the
board
of
adjustment,
it's
officially
the
title.
Is
the
zoning
board
of
adjustment?
It
is
a
quote
sovereign
board.
Unquote.
What
that
means
is
that
what
you,
the
decisions
you
make
as
a
board
can
be
overturned
by
the
city,
council
or
anybody
else
at
the
city
level.
If
somebody
doesn't
like
the
decision
you
make,
they
have
to
file
a
court,
they
have
to
file
a
case
with
the
district
court,
so
in
other
words,
your
decisions
are
pretty
pretty
important.
Pretty
final.
C
A
C
C
C
Never
makes
mistakes
now.
In
reality,
though,
marco
occasionally
mistakes
do
happen
right
yeah
and
it's
very
rare
I
mean
we
do
a
very
good
job,
there's
very
thorough
review,
but
we're
human
and
so
sometimes
mistakes
happen.
So
let's
say
your
plans
came
in
mr
gutierrez
and
we
approved
a
plan.
That
said
somebody
could
build,
even
though
it
was
in
the
setback,
so
they
actually
couldn't,
but
because
we
accidentally
improved
it.
C
That
would
be
a
mistake
on
our
part.
Have
you
ever
seen
that
happen?
Mr
gutierrez
sometimes
happen
yeah.
Sometimes
it
does
happen.
I
mean
we're
like
I
said
we
do
a
very
good
job,
we're
very
thorough,
there's
many
there's
several
people
working
on
this,
but
occasionally
it
does
happen
in
the
planning
department
and
also
in
the
building
department.
If
we
accidentally
allowed
that
they're
actually
allowed
to
build
it,
you
know
we
can't
come
back
a
month
later
and
say:
hey
we
approved
this
plan,
you
started
construction,
but
actually
no,
we
were
wrong.
C
So
in
the
case
where
we
make
a
mistake-
and
we
acknowledge
it-
you
know
we.
We
know
that
people
can
continue
to
build
something,
even
though
we
said,
even
though
it's
against
the
rules,
but
we
originally
said
they
could.
But
what
happens
you'll
find.
Mr
cavazos
is
that
somebody
makes
the
claim
that
we
made
a
mistake
and
that
and
where
we
don't
agree,
that's
where
it
ends
up
on
your
table,
because
somebody's
saying
somebody
might
claim
that.
C
C
F
C
D
C
C
They're
saying
that
you
know
something
happened
where,
if
we
follow
the
rules
I
I'll
be
damaged,
I
won't
be
able
to
to
use
my
property
in
a
reasonable
way.
So
you
get
this
in
a
couple
ways.
Typically
you
get
it
or
you
may
get
it
because
somebody
something
happened
to
somebody's
property
and
it
wasn't
it's
not
a
legal,
conforming
use
anymore.
So
a
good
example
was
would
be.
C
But
there
are
some
requirements
you
have
to
meet.
For
instance,
you
can't
have
made
that
damage
yourself.
You
can't
bulldoze
it
in
the
night
and
say:
oh
you
know
whoops
the
building
fell
down.
I
want
to
rebuild
it,
and
you
know
they've
got
to
demonstrate
that
this
was
an
act
of
god
or
that
they
qualify
under
the
rules,
and
so
that's
typically
when
they'll
come
to
board
of
adjustments
when
there's
not
agreement
between
the
city
staff
and
them
about
what
they're
allowed
to
to
do
in
terms
of
rebuilding
something.
That's
no
longer
permitted.
C
C
Now
we
need
to
talk
about
this,
because
there
are
some
things
that
should
qualify
and
shouldn't
qualify
as
justifications
for
a
variance,
typically
you're
you're,
something
unique
about
your
lot
or
your
building.
Where,
if
you
follow
the
rules,
it
would
create
a
hardship,
an
undue
hardship
and
you
wouldn't
be
able
to
reasonably
use
your
land.
Let's
talk
about
that
a
little
bit.
What
is.
C
F
C
I
guess
we
know
why
you're
the
chairman,
that
was
like
textbook
right
there,
that
was
good
you're,
exactly
right,
a
hardship
if
you
look
in
red
is
not
a
personal
hardship
and
I
think
just
calling
it
hardship.
Maybe
might
that's
sometimes
why
we
lean
that
way,
because
the
word
itself
sounds
like
oh
you're,
going
through
a
hard
time.
You
know,
let's
give
this
guy
a
break.
Let's
give
this
lady
a
break
she's
going
through
a
hard
time.
No,
that's
not
what
a
hardship
means.
C
C
There's
something
uniquely
created
there
that
they
didn't
create
themselves
that
if,
if
the
rules
apply
to
them,
they're
not
going
to
be
able
to
use
their
their
land
in
a
reasonable
way.
So
some
good
examples
of
would
be.
If
you
have
a
lot
with
steep
slopes-
and
you
know
they,
they
have
to
build
in
the
setback.
C
Otherwise,
they
don't
have
room
to
put
it
in
the
middle
or
irregular
shaped
lots
where
you
know
we
have
rules
about
irregular,
shaped
lots
and
the
subject
hornets,
but
sometimes
they
just
can't
anticipate
the
weird
shapes
that
you
get
lots
in
and
if
we
follow
the
rules,
it
would
give
them
like
a
little
tiny
bit
of
buildable
area,
and
so
we
we
bring
that
to
you
to
make
exceptions.
Those
are
good
examples
of
variance.
Now
you
will
see
it's
not
always
that
we're
in
a
disagreement
typically
as
staff.
C
C
We
can
recognize
when
there's
undue
hardship
and-
and
we
might
encourage
someone
actually
to
say,
hey
look.
We
can't
we
can't
let
you
build
this.
The
way
you
want,
but
you
you
can
get,
you
can
ask
for
a
variance,
and
we
would
support
you
because
you
have
an
irregular
shaped
lot
or
you
have
a
situation.
C
What
we
want
to
get
away
from
and
where
we
were
before
was
there
was
maybe
a
misunderstanding
with
staff
and
with
the
city
where
the
board
of
adjustment
was
just
seen
as
a
oh.
You
don't
like
the
rules.
Well,
go
ahead,
go
to
the
board
of
adjustment
they'll.
Maybe
they
can
give
you
an
exception,
and
if
you,
as
you
recall,
we
were
getting
several
you.
D
C
C
We
were
able
to
cut
that
down
where
we
haven't
had
a
meeting,
because
it's
not
used
as
an
outlet
anymore
and
the
one
big
comment
I
want
to
make
with
that
is
that
if
you
go
back
to
this
slide,
changing
the
rules,
verse
allowing
exceptions
if
we
want
to
change
the
rules,
if
we
don't
like
a
rule-
and
we
say
hey,
you
know
well
who
cares
about
setbacks
and
this
person?
You
know
it
costs
too
much
to
do
it
that
way.
C
So
a
big
thing
too
hardships
can't
be
self-created,
so
somebody
can't
buy
a
normal
sized
lot
and
then
divide
it
into
some
weird
shapes
and
then
say
hey.
Can
I
get
an
exception?
No,
that
wouldn't
work,
and
also
you
know,
oftentimes
you'll
get
somebody
that
will
build
something
first
and
then
it
gets
they
get
stopped
and
then
they
come
to
you
and
say:
oh
man.
I
just
spent
all
this
money
to
build
it.
Can
I
get
an
exception
to
allow
it?
I
mean
I
already
built
it.
C
C
So,
even
though
you
want
to
say,
oh
man,
you
know
I'm
sorry
you
did
that,
but
if
the
building
was
already
there
before
that's
different,
that's
illegal
non-conforming,
but
if
they
built
it
and
now
they're
asking
for
forgiveness,
that's
again
not
an
example.
That's
a
hardship.
They
created
themselves
because
they
didn't
follow
the
rules
now
related
to
that,
I
want
to
say
rafa.
Do
you
remember
what
one
of
the
big
claims
is
of
some
people?
That
say
and
remember:
we
went
over
and
talked
over
in
nuevo
laredo.
C
Can
you
repeat
that?
Please
do
you
remember
a
lot
of
the
example
people
say
when
with
the
rules
is
they
say?
Oh
well,
I
didn't
know
because,
because
you
know
over
in
mexico,
you
don't
have
to
you
know
they
don't
have
any.
They
don't
have
any
requirements.
You
can
do
whatever
you
want.
Do
you
remember
that.
B
C
B
C
It
may
not
surprise
you
or
it
may
surprise
you,
but
it's
not
the
wild
west
over
in
mexico,
they
have
building
code
requirements,
they
have
planning
and
zoning
requirements
and
actually,
when
we
got
into
the
nitty-gritty,
theirs
were
more
strict
in
some
areas
than
ours
and
they
have
building
inspectors
who
go
out
inside
people
and
do
stop
work
orders,
and
you
know
they
have
some
differences
and
setbacks,
but
basically
they
still
have
what
we
have
over
here.
So
that
excuse
that,
oh
you
know,
I'm
sorry
I'm
used
to
that
over
there
and
there
isn't.
C
F
See
that
honestly,
kirby
is
the
big
issue.
People
come
in
with
hat
in
hand
and
begging
for
forgiveness,
because
they
claim
that
they
didn't
know,
but
yet
they
can
build
an
addition
onto
a
house.
In
a
weekend
where
you
know
edgar
doesn't
have
a
chance.
The
enforcement
people
may
see
everything
good
on
thursday
and
or
friday
and
then
on
monday,
all
of
a
sudden
there's
a
building
there.
F
C
Yes,
that's
a
great
point
and
that's
something
we're
going
to
address
with
the
ricoh
to
give
it
a
little
more
teeth
there.
You
know
we're
also
we're
not
the
gestapo
we're
not
going
to
like
go
in
and
break
down
people's
doors
because
they
are
violating
a
setback.
You
know
there
is
a
due
process
that
we
follow
and
there's
fines
and
we
take
it
to
the
judge
and
you
know,
there's
a
process
and
we
want
it
to
be
fair
and
we
wanted
to.
C
We
want
to
be
as
understanding
as
we
can,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
the
rules
of
the
rules
and
if
we
want
to
change
the
rules,
that's
fine,
but
it's
not
this
body
that
gets
to
do
that.
It's
the
city
council,
so
that
we
can
provide
the
public
input
that
is
necessary
to
change
the
rules
for
everybody.
C
Okay,
so
continuing
on
about
hardship,
hardships
have
to
be
unique
to
the
property,
so
a
good
example
would
be.
You
know
the
steep
slopes,
but
also
that
they're
something
common
to
the
area.
You
know
we
might
have
rules
that
say:
hey
we
shouldn't
build
on
properties
with
slopes
and
as
long
as
it's
a
city-wide
rule,
that's
fine,
but
if
we
don't
have
that
rule
and
it's
creating
a
hardship
for
one
person,
that's
when
we
say
hey
the
rules,
don't
quite
address
the
circumstances
we
didn't
foresee
and
again.
C
C
C
G
No,
it
doesn't
mean
that
I
kind
of
feel
like
it
means
that
if
you
can
conform
to
the
codes
that
are
in
place,
you
know,
and
you
can
provide
sufficient
plans
to
the
building
department
that
you're
doing
that.
Well,
that's
the
reasonable
use
of
the
property.
You
can't
just
come
and
say:
well,
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna
infringe
on
the
setbacks
and-
and
I'm
just
gonna
do
it
because
I
want
to
do
it
and
I
don't
think
that's
what
the
rules
intent
is.
C
Yeah
you're
exactly
right,
you're,
exactly
right,
a
reasonable
use
doesn't
mean
you
get
to
do
whatever
you
want
wherever
you
want
it,
because
if
that
were
the
case,
I
think
most
people
would
want
to
use
well,
not
most,
but
a
lot
more
people
would
want
their
property
to
be
commercial
and
not
residential,
because
there's
more
money
in
it.
You
know-
and
often
we
see
that
we
see
people
wanting
to
do
something
commercial
because
they
can
make
more
money
off
of
it.
But
it's
not
zoned,
commercial
and
and
cities
do
and
the
state
is.
C
C
Oftentimes.
One
of
the
reasons
we
have
setbacks
is
because
people
want
some
separation
between
their
neighbors.
Not
that
I
agree
or
disagree.
That's
just
the
way.
The
rules,
that's
just
facial
for
the
rules,
so
in
other
words
that
property
owner
could
go
two
stories
up
and
get
2500
square
feet,
and
so
they
have
a
reasonable
use.
They
can
comply.
It
just
means
they
have
to
be
a
little
more
expensive
and
that's
fine.
C
What
we're
really
talking
about
with
reasonable
use
is
that,
if
the
potential,
if
they're
they're,
not
able
to
use
their
property
in
any
reasonable
way,
then
we're
starting
to
talk,
then
we're
starting
to
recognize
that
there's
no
reasonable
use,
and
so,
if
they
can't
use
their
property
for
anything,
obviously
they
don't
have
reasonable
use.
If
it's
so
restrictive,
they
can
do
very
very
little.
That's
where
your
determination
comes
in
and
says
yeah.
This
is
it's
getting
unreasonable,
city
staff.
I
mean
you
know
if
they
follow
the
rules.
C
C
They
can't
do
anything,
but
then
there's
an
area
in
the
middle
where
well,
you
know,
there's
very
limited,
maybe
too
limited,
and
that's
where
you
can
step
in
as
the
board
of
adjustments,
say:
okay,
we're
going
to
grant
a
variance
in
this
case,
because
it's
the
rules
in
this
specific
condition
of
this
lot,
make
it
too
limited,
and
we
want
to
give
them
a
little
a
little
more
room,
all
right
rafa.
Do
you
want
to
take
over
with
the
conduct
of
board
meetings
now?
A
C
A
C
That
is
a
great
example
and
as
staff
we
have
an
outlet
for
that
in
our
land
development
code,
where
we
can
make
exceptions
and
the
important
thing
is
that
just
because
they
don't
get
to
make
the
exception
necessarily
the
way
they
want,
they,
for
instance,
violating
setbacks
because
they
want
to
put
it
around.
You
know
that's
a
process
we
can
allow
for
through
through
the
city's
code,
to
make
a
property
ada,
but
maybe
they
don't
want
to
put
it
where
the
city
says
yeah,
that's
it.
Maybe
they
want
to
put
it
somewhere
else.
C
Maybe
they
want
to
you
know,
and
so.
In
other
words,
there
still
is
a
process
for
those,
and
I
think
the
example
you're.
Probably
thinking
of
that
was
tricky.
Was
that
property
where
they
said?
Well,
we
don't
want
to.
We
want
to
buy.
We
want
to
extend
our
home,
but
we
don't
want
to
do
it
on
a
second
story.
We
want
to
do
on
the
first
story,
because
the
first
door
is
accessible
to
the
person
we're
going
to
have
in
a
wheelchair
right.
C
Yeah
yeah
was
the
condition,
and
that
is
a
tricky
one
but
the.
But
if
you
looked
at
that
case,
you
remember
the
details
of
the
case
they
could
have
built,
they
had
other
area
they
could
have
built,
in
other
words,
they
weren't
maxed
out
on
their
buildable
area.
They
just
chose
a
certain
area
that
violated
the
setback,
and
that
was
where
they
built,
and
essentially
it
was
because
they
didn't
consult
with
us.
First,
they
just
started
building
without
a
permit,
so
they're
using
they
were
using
that
as
an
excuse.
C
After
the
fact
they
didn't
come
to
us
first,
if
they
came
to
us
first
we'd
say
well,
you've
still
got
all
this
area
on
the
other
side
of
the
home.
Why
don't
you
use
that
sign
you're?
Still,
you
can
still
reasonably
accommodate
that
person.
You
don't
have
to
violate
the
setback,
to
build
that.
Second,
one
I'll
just
tell
you
anecdotally.
If
we
get
somebody
in
that,
that's
the
reason
they
need
to
violate
some
of
the
rules.
G
Kirby,
I
had
a
question
also.
I
know
that
mr
averill
and
and
some
of
the
other
members
also
discussed
with
you
a
couple
of
times
about
kind
of
like
a
screening
process
for
for
people
who
are
requesting
variances.
Sometimes
I
don't
know
if
the
charter
was
changed
or
anything
like
that.
If
those
things
have
been
considered
as
well
to
kind
of
streamline
what
comes
to
the
board
through
the
I
know
me
and
pancho
have
talked
about
it.
G
It's
it's
been
some
time,
so
I
can't,
I
can't
remember
all
the
details,
but
if
we
had
some
kind
of
screening
process
so
that
you
know
I
know
it's
costly
for
people
to
come
to
the
board
and
if
it's
already
going
to
be
something
that's
not
going
to
be
able
to
to
cut
the
mustard
I
mean.
Sometimes
they
have
to
be
told
that
you
know
this.
This
is
this.
Is
there's
no
hardship
here,
you're
not
being
denied?
You
know
reasonable
use
of
your
property.
C
But
at
this
point
I
think,
unless
we
receive
direction
otherwise
from
the
board
that
we
probably
don't
need
an
administrative
process
right
now,
because
it's
we've
really
brought
that
workload
down
by
just
training
everybody
and
explaining
it
correctly.
Does
anybody
else
have
any
questions
up
to
this
point?
We've
got
about
five.
Ten
minutes
left
rafa.
B
Yes,
so
one
of
the
things
that's
very
important
is
about
the
meetings
is
the
way
the
meetings
are
actually
conducted.
The
meetings
are
a
public
meeting,
they
are
recorded,
minutes
are
taken,
but
it's
also
very
important
that
they
be
conducted
properly
for
the
benefit
of
the
public.
Now,
in
the
order
of
the
meeting
when
we
first
start
out
is
staff
is
given
the
opportunity
to
make
their
presentation
and
they
present
their
case
completely.
C
Well,
I
don't
see
that
perspective
or
yeah.
I
agree
with
these
facts,
so
if
you
recall
those
last
couple
meetings,
did
you
like
it?
The
way
we
did
it
and
is
that
the
way
you
wanted
to
continue?
So
what
we're
suggesting
here
is
we
make
a
presentation
first
and
then
we
turn
it
over
to
the
board
to
question
the
applicant
and
anyone
else.
B
Thank
you,
yes,
mr
chairman
and
and
staff
is,
is
there
to
to
be
a
good
resource
for
the
board.
Now
after
the
staff
makes
their
presentation,
then
the
applicant
is
allowed
to
make
their
case,
and,
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
need
to
keep
in
mind
is
not
to
be
argumentative
and
just
to
understand
that
what
we
really
need
to
get
at
the
heart
of
it
is
the
evidence.
It
shouldn't
be
an
issue
of
an
opinion
but
more
getting
to
the
evidence,
and
if
the
burden
of
proof
is
on
the
applicant.
B
Now
the
once
the
hearing
is
closed,
the
applicant
should
no
longer
speak
and
it's
it's
very
important
that
the
board
does
stick
to
that
and
when
the
board
does
make
their
motion
a
decision,
they
should
cite
the
findings
and
the
reasons
for
the
decision
again
since
these
are
recorded
and
minutes
are
taken.
It's
very
important
that
the
reason,
the
reasoning
for
the
decision
be
clear,
because
it
does
create
a
record
for
review
in
the
future.
Yes,.
C
Ralph
and
I'll
interject
again
to
say
that
you
know
99
times
out
100,
it
doesn't
go
any
further
than
the
board
of
adjustment,
but
in
that
one
case
that
it
goes
to
the
district
court
judge,
it
is
going
to
be
very
helpful
for
the
judge
to
then
be
able
to
watch
the
meeting
and
to
see
how
things
were
done,
orderly
and
to
see
why
you
made
your
decision.
The
reason
you
decided
to
vote
actually
does
matter
it
matters
that
you
hey.
C
B
When
we,
when
the
meetings
are
conducted,
we
the
you,
do,
follow
the
robert's
rules
of
order
and
the
motion
or
the
propos
is
the
proposal
of
the
entire
membership
takes
action.
Now
the
motion
that
is
made
is
what's
very
important,
drives
the
beginning
of
the
decision.
So
there's
motions
are
moved,
then
seconded
they
are
discussed
and
then
at
the
end
they
are
voted
on.
B
B
The
other
is
to
speak
clearly
and
concisely,
as
the
notes
are
being
taken
as
the
miniature
meeting
is
being
recorded
now,
one
of
the
challenges
and
that
we
saw
a
little
bit
in
the
beginning
when
this
meeting
was
being
started,
was
that
we
were
having
a
couple
of
technical
issues
with
the
webex
meeting.
So
that's
why
it's
very
important
that
we
speak
clearly
concisely
and
that
those
issues
are
taken
care
of
for
the
record
for
the
public
later
on.
B
C
Yes,
in
rafa
I'll
add
to
that
that
as
city
staff,
we-
that
is
our
aim,
but
also
in
the
positions
you
sit
in.
You
also
represent
the
city,
and
so
it's
very
important.
I
know.
Sometimes
our
personality
may
not
fit
with
the
conduct
of
a
meeting.
I
mean,
if
you
you
know
you,
you
may
be
someone
who
wants
to
speak
more
freely
and
throw
your
opinion
and
maybe
joke
a
little.
C
But
when
you're
when
you're,
representing
as
a
board
member
for
the
public,
especially
they
know
that
you're
just
a
volunteer
and
somebody
that's,
they
are
seeing
a
city
official
and
so
it's
very
important
for
the
public.
I
think
to
maintain
that
that
level
of,
of
course,
and
respect
to
everybody,
including
your
fellow
board
members,
I.
F
F
I
think
it's
probably
the
last
meeting
of
last
year,
where
we
had
two
council
members
come
up
and
you
know
past
council
members
had
come
up
and
they
did
they're
discussing
it
and
it's
obvious
that
they're
trying
to
put
their
two
cents
in.
I
don't
know
if
they're
trying
to
intimidate
the
board
or
whatever,
but
it
would
be
great
if
we
had
a
timed
amount
or
a
number
of
speakers
on
be
on
that
behalf.
E
Mr
chair,
can
I
say
something
about
that.
Go
ahead.
You
know,
I
don't
think
we
have
a
time
crunch,
like
city
council
would
have
a
time
crunch
where
we
have
to
limit
people's
time.
I
always
feel
like
limiting
people's
time
is
sort
of
like
cutting
off
their
speech.
I
don't
like
to
do
that
unless
we
have
some
kind
of
time
crunch.
I've
never
seen
a
meeting
that
we
have
too
many
items
number
one
number
two:
how
many
people
can
go
to
bat
for
somebody?
E
I
think
that's
something
the
committee
can
decide
how
many
people
can
go
to
bat
for
somebody.
Three
two,
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
reasonable.
I
mean
you,
don't
want.
You
know
14
people
getting
up
one
after
the
other,
after
the
other,
in
support
of
something
it's
like.
You
know,
I
think
after
you
know
two
three,
okay,
we
got
it,
you
know,
but
I
don't
think
cutting
people
off.
Time-Wise
is
good.
C
So
from
a
staff
perspective,
it's
certainly
within
the
discretion
of
the
chairman
and
the
board
to
to
determine
how
long
people
speak,
and
so
you
know
one
of
the
board
members
could
say
chairman.
Can
I
motion
that
we
limit
the
discussion.
You
know.
Do
we
limit
speakers
this
amount
or,
if
there's
somebody
speaking
you
might
you
know
interject
and
say
chairman?
Would
it
be
possible?
We
could
maybe
continue
for
one
more
minute
and
limit
it
after
that?
Maybe.
E
C
C
The
one
thing
I
will
say
that
you
should
try
to
stick
to
is
that
when
someone
is
presenting
that
they
are,
they
should
be
presenting
evidence,
and
so,
if
somebody's
speaking
to
the
character
of
the
individual,
if
they're
speaking
to
the
financial
situation
of
the
individual,
those
are
things
that
should
not
be
weighing
in,
and
so
you
could
remind
them,
it
would
be
appropriate
to
interject
and
say.
Thank
you
speaker.
C
I
really
appreciate
you
coming
to
be
here
for
for
the
applicant,
but
do
you
have
anything
that
relates
to
the
property,
to
the
uniqueness
of
the
property,
not
the
not
the
personal
circumstances
of
the
individual,
but
the
unique
services
of
the
property?
And
if
they
say
no,
you
can
say
well.
Thank
you
very
much
for
for
what
we're
trying
to
ascertain
facts
as
they
relate
to
the
property.
That's
certainly
something
reasonable.
C
D
C
Don't
like
the
rules
we
want
to
change
rules,
then
we
can
do
that
and
I'd
like
to
hear
your
input
as
board
members
right
now,
because
we
have
a
chance
to
change
the
rules
with
recode
and
we'll
have
to
double
check
it
off
whether
this
is
not
in
the
charter.
I
don't
think
it
is,
and
this
is
just
city
ordinance,
but
right
now.
D
C
Way,
the
rules
are
written,
only
there's
only
five
voting
members
at
a
board
of
adjustment
meeting,
and
you
need
four
out
of
five
votes
to
make
a
decision,
but
the
way
I
think
in
practice
it's
been
occurring
for
a
long
time
is
all
nine
members
are
coming
to
meetings.
All
nine
members
are
voting,
I
mean
all
nine
may
not
show
up,
but
any
of
the
nine
candidates.
The
ninth
vote
is
that.
C
C
Now
I,
the
only
thing
I'll
say
is
the
reason.
Four
out
of
five
votes
is
required
for
an
emotion
is
because
that's
a
it
was
intended
that
there
be
a
high
threshold.
In
other
words,
five
board
members
can
vote
and
four
out
of
the
five
need
to
agree.
It's
not.
It
was
never
intended
to
be
a
simple
majority,
so
I
think
we
need
to.
We
need
to
stick
to
that.
C
G
C
Yes
and
that's
something
we
can
look
at
to
maybe
make
a
little
because
in
practice
that's
probably
what
they're
thinking
as
well.
If
you
didn't
pick
somebody
else,
you're
still
the
guy,
but
but
by
the
rules.
If
we're
following
the
rules
years,
a
two-year
appointment,
then
you
need
to
be
reappointed
and
reappointed.
If
you
continue.
D
D
D
G
And
kirby,
like
I'm,
not
opposed
to
having
more
individuals
participate.
I
can
understand
sometimes
why
term
limits
are
put
in
place
to
try
to
get
you
know
more
citizens
involved
in
in
in
even
the
board
of
adjustments.
The
problem
also
has
been
that
we
were
getting
quorum.
There
were
there
were
years
in
the
past
where
we
were
not
able
to
even
get
quorum.
So
I
just
throwing
that
as
food
for
thought
out,
there.
C
C
If
you're
there
you're
going
to
continue
to
serve
if
and
when
a
replacement
happens
or
if
you're
reappointed,
you
know
no
one's
getting
kicked
out,
know
what
I'm
saying
what
I
am
saying
is
definitely
for
the
for
the
rule
of
five
we're
going
to
be
following
that
going
forward.
Now
the
problem
is
right:
now
we
only
have
two
that
are
identified
as
alternates,
that's
javier
martinez
and
and
elise,
laval.
I'm
sorry
if
I
said
you
mean
wrong
louise,
but
is
it
lavon.
F
C
Very
good,
so
what
the
rule
says
is
that
you're
appointed
as
a
board
adjustment
member,
but
then
the
members
and
the
alternates
are
selected
by
lottery
and
it
doesn't
say
how
often
the
lottery
has
to
occur.
So
I
would
leave
that
up
for
the
board,
but
at
some
point
before
our
next
meeting,
whoever
shows
up
we
have
to
pull
the
lottery
to
say.
Who
are
the
members?
You
could
do
that
every
meeting
I
think
that's
unnecessary.
What
would
be
good
is
probably
at
a
a
meeting
where
you
designated
least
for
a
year.
C
You
say:
hey,
let's
draw
straws
in
a
way
and
you
could
do
it
on
several
different
ways,
but
you
say:
let's
designate
who
they
are
the
members
and
who
are
the
alternates
now?
What
does
it
mean
to
be
an
alternate?
You
still
show
up
to
the
meeting
and
if
we
don't
make
quorum,
you
you
join
in
and
you
vote.
You
know
you
can
certainly
participate
in
the
meeting,
but
you're
only
voting
if
you're
a
member.
D
E
C
C
C
E
D
E
C
C
E
D
F
C
C
C
Yeah,
and
just
for
clarity's
sake,
maybe
you
know
what
there's
well
we'll
take
a
little.
Let
me
come
back
to
that
because
others
may
want
to
leave
I'll.
Do
it
at
the
end
of
the
meeting.
If
anybody
wants
to
watch,
you
know
I
can
actually
bring
it
up,
but
just
for
the
sake
of
everybody
else,
let
me
just
continue
because
there's
only
a
few
slides
left.
C
We
have
a
code
of
ethics
that
we're
required
to
follow
all
board
members
in
the
choir,
follow
as
the
board
of
adjustment
you're
specifically
called
out
the
city
officials.
So
you
have
the
highest
standard
of
ethics,
that's
required
by
the
city.
Now
I'm
not
going
to
go
through
all
the
rules,
because
it's
several
pages,
I
just
want
to
highlight
a
couple
things.
One
is
the
general
rule
that
you
need
to
avoid
the
appearance
and
risk
of
impropriety.
C
Basically,
nobody
you
or
in
your
family
or
your
household
should
be
economically
benefiting
from
any
situation
now
the
threshold.
If
it
ever
comes
up
when
you
think
oh
maybe
I
need
to
recuse
myself,
this
is
the
standard.
The
city
lays
out
that
you
can't
be
re
personal,
that
this
person
can't
be
a
member
of
your
household.
So
it's
whether
they're
related
with
you
or
not.
If
they're
living
with
you,
that's
your
household,
then
there's
a
another
additional
standard
that
can't
be
related
to
you
by
three
degrees
of
consenuity
or
affinity.
C
What
does
that
mean
in
sanguity
means
related
by
blood
affinity
means
you're
related
by
marriage.
So
here
are
some
examples.
The
third
degree
would
be
a
great
grandparent
or
a
great
grandparent
and
alone,
or
a
great
grandchild,
mom
or
a
great
grandchild.
So
you
get
it
it's
pretty
easy,
but
that's
when
you
need
to
recuse
yourself
and
there
are
a
few
other
ways,
but
I
would
I
would
recommend
reading
through
those,
if
you
haven't
in
a
while
they're
very
important
you
have.
C
The
board
of
adjustment
are
specifically
called
out
as
being
officials
that
pick
the
highest
standard
of
this
one.
Last
thing
I
want
to
point
out:
this
is
in
our
code
of
ethics.
This
is
not
me
speaking.
This
is
our
code
of
ethics.
The
city
is
adopted,
you
are
appointed
by
a
council
member,
but
you
are
not
a
representative
on
this
board
and
and
and
sometimes
I
know,
we
can
confuse
the
two
and
in
fact
mr
robert,
you
were
you
were
well.
No,
it
wasn't
you.
I
I'm
sorry.
C
By
the
ethics
you
do
not
represent
anybody
when
you
come
as
a
board
of
adjustment
member,
not
representing
your
district
you're,
not
representing
your
council
member
you're,
not
representing
any
political
party.
You
are
representing
no
one
you're
coming
in
as
a
as
a
judge
to
provide
your
best
judgment
on
what
you
think
is
right
and
wrong
and
how
the
rules
should
be
interpreted,
so
it
would
be
inappropriate
for
somebody
to
call
you
to
say:
hey
you
represent
me,
you
should
be
voting
this
way.
That
would
be
against
the
ethics
of
the
city.
C
I
want
to
make
that
clear,
be
I
don't
I'm
not
suggesting
it
ever
happens.
I
just
want
to
make
it
clear
that
we
do
have
these
rules.
They
are
important
and
we
have
the
city's
trust
in
these
decisions.
We
make
and
it's
very
important
that
we're
that
serious
with
that
said,
that's
it
for
the
presentation.
Does
anybody
have
any
questions
and
then
everybody
else
can?