►
Description
City of Madison Board of Zoning and Appeals - July 11, 2022
C
C
A
The
minutes,
the
only
the
minutes
that
we
have
to
approve
are
from
the
may
meeting.
I
was
absent
from
that
meeting.
Therefore
I
will
not
be
voting,
but
for
sake
of
time
I
will
just
lead
the
meeting
board
members.
Have
you
had
time
to
look
over?
The
minutes
from
may
are.
A
Okay,
moving
on
to
the
renewals
of
conditional
uses
save
a
little
time
I'll.
Just
read
one
two:
three
four
and
one:
two:
three
four
and
six
one
is
susan
user
1650
clip
to
drive
mike
and
melissa,
hess,
313,
west
5th
street,
and
mike
and
melissa
has
317
west
fifth
stuart
and
kim
heisey,
417,
east
third
and
bob
and
tammy
courtney
318
plum
street.
A
E
F
A
A
There
have
been
no
complaints,
but
they
have
not
paid
their
renewal
fee.
So
therefore,
I
move
we
instruct
our
attorney
to
send
them
a
letter
indicating
that
their
conditional
use
permit
fees
have
not
been
paid.
Their
conditional
uses
are
expired,
however,
if
they
pay
their
fee
by
our
next
regular
meeting,
they
will
be
renewed
second
and
we'll
have
a
roll
call
on
that.
One.
A
Bob
and
tammy
courtney-
that's
an
event
space
at
402,
west
maine,
the
property's
been
sold
and
therefore
the
conditional
use
is
expired,
as
is
canceled.
A
Moving
on
new
applications.
Number
one
joseph
ehlers
from
fireplace
church
was
requesting
a
conditional
use
permit
to
build
a
church
and
have
worship
services
on
their
property
at
3110,
clifty
drive
and
that's
in
residential
agriculture.
So
a
representative
from
the
church
come
up
kindly
give
your
name
and
address.
H
I'm
peter
ellison
from
o'brien
ellis
engineering,
and
this
is
joey
aylor's
pastor
for
the
fireplace
church.
H
We
prepared
the
plans
for
the
for
the
project
and
the
property
that
the
church
will
be
located
on,
extends
from
clifty
drive
back
and
in
this
location.
Clifty
drive.
Let
me
explain:
clifty
drive
in
this
particular
location
runs
north
south,
I
think
of
it
as
running
east-west,
but
this
portion
of
clifty
drive
runs
north-south
and
the
property
lays
on
the
west
side
of
clifty
drive
and
extends
almost
all
the
way
over
to
burka
ding
road.
H
This
property
is
actually
zoned
general
business,
but
right
where
we
are
proposing
to
build
that
the
lot
itself,
and
probably
the
reason
that
it
hasn't
been
built
on
before
is
there
is
a
culvert
that
that
goes
from
the
east
side
of
clifty
drive
to
the
west
side
of
clifty
drive
and
comes
out
points
right
right,
essentially
right
in
the
middle
of
the
lot
and
then
curves
and
bends
to
the
south,
and
so
that
front
area
is
low.
H
Runs
through
there
and
runs
parallel
to
the
to
the
creek
that
I
just
described.
It's
a
creek
when
it's
called
culvert
exits
and.
H
H
We're
300
feet
back
from
clifty
drive,
as
opposed
to
maybe
100
feet
back
from
clifty
drive
the
front
200
feet
his
own
general
business.
I
think
I
said
that
already
so
we're
really
just
asking
for
the
board
zoning
appeals
to
allow
us
to
construct
the
building
set
back
300
feet,
so
we
can
have
a
nice
front
yard
where
they
can
have
activities
in
the
you
know
when
in
summertime
or
what
have
you
and
people
drive
by
and
see?
H
H
H
There
are
three
churches
on
that
section
of
clifty
drive
within
a
mile,
so
that'll
be
a
fourth,
so
driving
back
and
forth.
Between
hanover
and
madison,
I
mean
that
I
guess
churches
will
have
a
good
representation
anyway.
I
don't
do
you
have
anything
to
add
no.
J
Just
the
purpose
for
us
putting
the
church
at
that
location
at
the
front
of
the
property
there's
there's
several
drainage
locations.
The
ndot
has
ran
off
really
several
miles
of
clifty
drive
and
so
with
us
putting
the
church
up
there
with
any
of
the
runoff
that
indot
has
already
already
has
existing.
That
works.
F
Well,
so
I
live
on
board,
training,
drive
butchering
road
and
we've
got
some
drainage
issues.
F
So
I'd
be
curious
to
know
what
your
plan
for
drainage
is
with
the
current
project
and
the
scope
of
work
to
be
done
related.
H
H
Is
that
drainage
at
the
location
we're
at
is
on
the
downslope
side
of
a
natural
drainage
way
that
drains
to
the
east,
not
to
the
west,
so
there's
there
will
be
a
break
somewhere
in
there
and
I'm
not
sure
exactly
where
it
is.
I
mean
I
can
pull
the
plans
out
and
maybe
get
an
idea,
but
there
is
a
high
spot
somewhere
between
clifty
drive
and
bargaining
road,
where
the
water
shifts
to
the
west,
the
watersheds
to
the
east.
We
are
on
the
east
side
of
that
yeah
comfortably,
I
mean
by
at
least
500
feet.
J
F
F
So
that's
that's
why
I'm
asking
you
know
about
your
drainage
plan
and
some
something
else
that
I
would
like
to
see
is
we
have
no.
We
have
no
drawings
or
representations
of
what
the
building
is
going
to
look
like
the
footprint
and
all
that
that
that
really
needs
to
be
provided
to
us
for
our
decision
making.
F
H
D
A
F
H
A
G
A
K
Is
mark
shaw,
I
live
at
3504
interstate
block
road.
What
they're
not
telling
you
about
the
drainage
over
there
like
what
he
said
is
terrible.
That
comes
on
me
where
the
water
comes
across
the
road
behind
monty's
car
clinic
and
all
that
farm
ground
that
tony
hammock
owns
that
comes
over
on
me.
Well,
I
bought
both
woods
off
mr
anderson.
He
bought
all
that
property
from
carter
lumber.
I
bought
the
two
little
sections
that
butt
up
against
them.
K
Since
mr
anderson
has
owned
that
and
sold
it
to
them,
he
covered
that
stream
up
with
a
bulldozer,
and
I
called
the
dnr
on
him
and
before
he
sold
it
to
these
folks,
they
took
a
mini
track
over
and
dug
it
back
up.
It's
not
near
as
deep
as
it
was
that
probably
been
there
for
60
70
years,
and
the
drainage
is
terrible.
K
K
They've
been
trucking
sawdust
in
there
for
the
last
two
years,
with
old
badger,
silage
wagons
and
spreading
that
out
on
that
property
and
every
time
it
comes
to
one
of
them
told
stragglers,
since
they
expanded
that
trailer
park
across
for
me
back
in
99
or
2000
by
68
or
nine
trailers,
and
put
all
that
pavement
and
stuff
down
that
goes
over
the
road
by
my
house.
Now
pretty
frequently.
K
K
K
K
K
So
you
know
I
would
like
to
have
those
issues
addressed.
You
know,
because
I
mean
I,
I
can't
they're
right
on
top
of
me,
which
you
know
I
I
don't
want
to
tell
anybody
what
they
can
do
with
their
property.
I'm
not
here
to
do
that,
but
you
know
until
they
get
a
building
built.
I
would
appreciate
turning
the
volume
down
on
their
amps,
but
but
the
drainage
is
going
to
be
a
more
of
a
problem
for
them,
because
it's
it's
bad,
it's
bad
folks,
that's
all
going
to
come
all
over
on
me.
K
M
I
K
Well,
they
come
back
in
dug
it
out,
put
it
back
in
so,
but
that's
that's
my
concerns.
You
know,
because
it's
going
to
affect
me
and
me
only
right
there
and
the
reason
that
got
changed
when
I
bought
those
two
woods
off.
Mr
anderson,
when
that
was
in
carter,
lumber
that
was
zoned
industrial.
Like
light
industrial,
I
had
to
change
that
zoning
on
them.
Two
lots
I
bought
from
him.
He
wouldn't
sell
me
no
more
in
the
back
or
I'd
have
bought
it.
K
K
E
K
E
K
C
M
K
K
No,
I
I
I'm
glad
somebody
finally
bought
that
you
know
I'm
glad
somebody
did
they
do
whatever
they
want,
but
I
just
if
they're
going
to
cut
down
all
the
trees
and
expand
it
more,
which
they
could
probably
cut
pretty
close
right
up
to
me.
I'd
still
have
a
few
left,
but
just
as
long
as
they
leave
the
green
space,
I
don't
care,
but
but
the
drainage
is
the
main.
D
A
H
The
city
is
obligated
to
review
storm
drainage
plans
for
any
development
within
the
city,
so,
as
part
of
our
building
permit,
we
are
required
to
apply
to
the
city
for
storm
drainage,
storm
drainage
plan
which
we're
doing
separately.
I
didn't
bring
that
with
me,
but
the
city
does
have
a
process.
H
H
Yeah,
what
I
have
to
say
is
that
the
city-
it's
it's,
not
that
we
intend
to
address
the
problem.
The
city
requires
that
we
address
the
problem
and
what
the
city
will
require
us
to
do,
because
I've
looked
at
the
at
the
rules
is,
is
to
ensure
that
we
do
not
add
more
water
to
that
drainage
way,
then,
was
being
added
to
the
drainage
way
prior
to
construction,
and
that's
that's
basically,
the
way
the
rules
exist
and
I'm
familiar
with
with
the
issues
that
those
those
two
mobile
home
subdivisions.
H
He's
correct
that
there
is
a
culvert
underneath
the
drive
that
goes
back
and
it's
it's
smaller
than
the
culverts
that
that
we
have
entering
the
property
where
we
are,
and
so
it
does,
it
does
tend
to
back
water
up
there
I
mean
that's
true,
but
I
mean
to
put
a
pin
in
it.
We
do
not
intend
to
exacerbate
the
storm
drainage
problem
on
that
property,
and
the
city
has
a
process
to
review
that,
and
I
also
have.
A
J
The
majority
of
our
congregation
in
our
early
service
was
probably
60
to
80
years
old,
without.
D
J
J
There's
no
amps,
I
mean
there's
well
yeah.
It's
powered
speakers,
yeah
yeah,.
J
J
F
Do
you
have
any
plans
to
put
in
a
fence.
J
J
E
D
F
F
F
J
The
ndot
has
ran
five
drains
on
the
front,
just
as
what
he's
talking
about
the
five
drains,
and
now
that
there
is,
I
guess,
a
lake
or
something
being
built
over
there.
That
is
intensifying
the
water
flow
that
that
was
there
before
the
church
actually
endot.
I
forget
his
name,
I
think
tony,
which
is
over
indiana
department
of
transportation,
told
me
that
he
said
hey
it's
it's
you
guys
are
doing
a
great
job.
J
We
should
do
a
better
job
of
taking
care
of
it
a
long
time
ago,
because
it's
been
just
a
just
a
really
wet
area
for
years.
So
we
I
mean
we're.
F
Not
creating.
I
have
zero
trust
in
indot,
because
when
I
bought
my
house,
they
hadn't
redone,
clifty
drive
yet,
and
we
didn't
have
near
as
much
drainage
problems
until
they
redid
clifty
drive
and
indot's
the
one
that
designed
that
approved
it
and
all
that
water
whenever
he
did,
that
gets
pushed
back
towards
orcharding
road
and
then
it's
supposed
to
drain
south
to
interstate
block
and
that's
where
a
lot
of
this
water
accumulates.
H
I
H
We
wouldn't
even
be
at
this
meeting
tonight-
we're
really
here
specifically
and
only
to
request
that
we
be
allowed
to
locate
the
building
200
100
feet
farther
back
on
the
property
on
a
property.
That's
it's
actually
rather
confusing
zoning.
When
you
have
a
single
piece
of
property
and
the
front
part
of
it
is
general
business
and
the
rear
portion
is
residential
agricultural.
C
But
at
any
rate,
I
have
to
agree
with
the
points
you
just
made
there.
If
you
guys
were
building
a
constructing
something
that
was
within
what
the
ordinance
state
is
that
ground
can
be
used
for
there'd,
be
no
discussion
tonight,
you
would
be
in
the
building
permit
process
moving
into
the
storm
water
review.
C
You
know
in
the
normal
process,
so
unless
we're
declaring
the
land
unbuildable,
which
obviously
we
can't
do-
but
I
think
there's
got
to
be
a
little
bit
of
faith
in
the
building
permit
process
to
review
that
stormwater
runoff
into
the
plan.
O
F
A
F
C
A
Number
two
on
the
agenda
is
melissa,
lee
miller,
requesting
variants
from
developmental
standards
for
setbacks
to
allow
building
a
home
addition.
Where
structure
was
found
to
not
be
meeting
the
hdr
setback
requirements
applicant
is
requesting
a
one
foot
setback
on
the
east
lot
line.
In
addition
to
a
previously
zero
lot
line
on
the
west
coast,
718
was
third
street
district
residential
somebody
come
up
who
wishes
to
representative
or
ms
miller.
A
P
P
P
I'm
a
builder
from
northern
virginia-
I
just
moved
here
and
I'm
starting
to
work
with
people
on
designing
stuff
for
downtown,
and
I
want
to
get
the
architectural
details
a
little
nicer
than
what
I've
seen
so
the
foot
moving
it
over
gives
me
an
opportunity
to
give
him
a
decent,
overhang,
plus
put
a
gutter
on,
and
I'm
lining
up
with
the
side
of
the
house
rather
than
hanging
over
on
the
next
property.
It's
not
my
house,
it's
john
brooks,
so
I'm
helping
him
with
the
design
work.
C
No,
I
see
nothing
injurious,
just
simply
extending.
What's
already
there.
D
C
No,
I
would
think
if
they're
renovating
the
house
and
making
the
property
more
attractive,
that's
will
be
a
positive
impact.
M
A
And
it's
one
of
these
downtown
properties
that
was
laid
out,
probably
in
the
19th
century,
and
this
is
simply
following
the
pretty
much
the
bay
actually
he's
moving
in
a
little
bit
from
the
previous
zero
lot
line.
So
were
he
to
have
to
adhere
to
strictly
adhere
to
the
zoning
ordinance.
It
would
make
a
very
strange,
looking
house,
so
I
think
that
one's
adequately
met.
In
this
case
we
take
a
motion.
A
Yes-
and
you
have
your
variance
sir
number,
four
on
the
agenda,
deborah
and
dale
anderson
are
asking
a
conditional
use
permit
to
construct
a
garage
on
an
empty
lot
for
vehicular
parking
storage
of
household
goods
so
forth
at
417,
presbyterian
avenue
and
that
zoned
historic
district
residential.
So
folks,
would
you
give
your
name
and
address
and
explain
what
you're
trying
to
do.
Q
I'm
deborah
anderson,
that's
my
husband,
dale
anderson.
We
live
at
420,
west
street
apartment
six
in
the
old
elks
building,
and
this
particular
lot
is
a
vacant
lot
and
it
I'll
kind
of
give
you
a
little
bit
of
history,
because
we've
already
been
before
historical
board
of
review
and
we
had
to
submit
two
plans
with
them.
Q
But
we
ran
into
a
problem
where
we
could
not
get
sewer
at
that
location.
The
only
sewer
line
that
would
be
remotely
available
came
underneath
the
two
connected
houses
next
door,
and
these
are
very
old
houses
and
very
old
lines,
and
it
would
be
too
dangerous
to
try
to
hook
onto
that
line.
So
the
city
was
good.
They've
spent
a
lot
of
time
out
there
looking
and
digging
and
cameras
and
all-
and
we
think
we
think
we
may
have
worked
it
out
where
we
can
run
a
private
line,
but
on
the
chance
that
we
couldn't.
Q
We
still
wanted
to
close
on
the
lot
and
we
still
wanted
to
be
able
to
use
the
lot.
So
we
would
have
a
garage
because
that's
very
important
to
us,
so
we
also
submitted
to
the
other
department
the
plans
just
for
our
garage
in
case
we
could
not
get
the
sewer
worked
out
or
it
would
be
so
expensive
that
we
just
couldn't
afford
to
do
it.
Q
So
they
did
approve
us
for
plan
a
and
plan
b,
and
I
spoke
with
joe
and
if
we
were
going
to
just
do
the
garage,
then
that
rolled
into
your
department,
where
you
had
to
have
a
conditional
use
permit,
for,
I
think
the
classification
was
automobile
storage.
I
think
it's
what
it
came
under,
and
so
that's
why
we're
here
today,
because
we
may
need
that
we're
not
sure
we
intend
to
build
something
on
that
lot.
Q
We
don't
want
to
give
that
lot
up,
that's
important
to
us
so,
and
it
may
end
up
that
we
don't
even
need
the
conditional
use
permit
if
we
can
get.
It
worked
out
with
the
sewer
that
we
can
go
ahead
and
build
the
residential
part
on
the
upper
level
and
we
would
live
there.
So
right
now
we're
we
don't
we've
retired.
Here
we
don't
want
to
rent
forever
and
we
are
paying
a
lot
of
money
for
storage
for
all
of
our
furniture,
and
so
we
we're
anxious
to
get
started
on
it.
E
Q
We
we
think
we
we
think
that
we've
got
it
worked
out.
We
think
they
found
an
eight-inch
line
that
we
can
hook
onto.
We
just
got
to
really
verify
with
the
contractor
that
I
need
something
in
writing
saying
and
I
don't
really
have
anything
in
writing
from
the
city
saying
that
you
know
he
can
tap
onto
it,
but
I
just
I
don't
have
that
and
I
prefer
to
have
it
in
writing
from
the
city
saying.
E
Q
Yeah
would
I
mean
we're
still
getting
some
costs
in
it.
It's
expensive
to
build
anything
right
now,
but
that
would
be
preferable
started
out
looking
for
a
bigger
house
and
ends
up.
We
might
just
build
a
smaller
house
and
see
how
that
goes:
love
the
location,
very
quiet,
very
nice
down
there.
Q
We
are,
but
if
we're
going
the
garage
route,
you
know
we
have
a
parking
lot
on
the
west
side
and
we
have
five
or
six
garages
across
the
street
and
then,
but
we
have
not
we're
going
to
stay
within
the
normal
setbacks.
We're
not
asking
for
any
changes
to
the
normal
three
foot.
Q
It
is
the
baptist
church
and
then
you
have
really.
The
the
closest
house
are
the
two
that
are
immediately
to
the
east
that
are
connected
and
they've.
Been
there
a
long
long
time,
and
then
you
go
past
them
to
the
east.
You
have
two
more
garages,
there's
a
little
bit
of
garaging
going
in
around
there,
but
it's
a
great
spot.
It's
very
very
nice
and
quiet
down
there
as
you
approach
the
park,
so
we're
very
excited
to
build
something
on
that
lot
and
there's
no
structure
there.
Q
Now
it's
that
was
torn
down
many
years
ago
there
was,
there
was
an
old,
an
old
house,
and
I
heard
heard
I
don't
know
that
it
had
been
a
little
grocery
market
like
a
little
corner,
store
down
there,
but
we
have.
We
got
some
old
pictures
from
the
historic
office
and.
N
Around
2000
or
so
so
it's
going
to
make
sense.
Yeah.
Q
Yeah
there
really
is,
it
really
is
so
anyway,
we
you
know
if
you're
kind
enough
to
grant
it
and
feel
it's
fit.
You
know
we
may
not
even
need
it.
I
guess
so
once
we
you
know,
if
you
do,
then
you
know,
I
guess
we
just
tell
you
and
we,
I
guess,
with
the
application
fee,
we
paid
that's
what
that's
for
and
then
we
would
just
tell
you,
that's
not
the
direction
we're
going
to
go,
so
there's
no
need
to
have
it
after
that
and
renew
it.
Q
My
plan
b,
if
it
has
to
happen,
I
got
to
know
that
I
can
build
that
garage
and
put
my
my
vehicles
in
there
and
my
husband's
shop.
No
we're
we're
under
contract
and
we're
wait.
This
was
we
were.
It
was
a
probate
situation,
so
we
had
to
wait.
Till
things
were
cleared
and
we
are
we're
there.
We
are
ready
to
go.
A
Q
This
would
be
our
third
property
to
build.
We
had
we
built
two
more
in
georgia,
where
we
moved
from
for
ourselves
over
the
38
years.
We
were
there,
so
we
learned
you
know
the
good
thing
is.
We
know
enough
to
check
to
make
sure
that,
what's
available
to
you
and
some
people
would
may
not,
but
we
had
a
pretty
good
surprise
there.
We
knew
there
was
water
because
there's
a
water
meter
on
the
property
kind
of
assuming
that
there
was
sewer
in
those
alleys
or
on
those
streets,
but
not
an
assumption.
D
D
A
What,
if
conditional
uses
when
there's
no
clear
explanation
of
what
the
purpose
of
the
conditional
use
is
it's
just?
Well,
maybe,
frankly,
I
don't
remem.
I
remember
one
conditional
use
that
involved
a
complex
business
deal,
but
that
was
for
a
definite
purpose,
but
something
like
this
in
my
six
years.
I
I've
never
heard
one
like
this.
A
A
M
A
Q
Q
If
I
lose
my
parking
space
and
it's
a
very
narrow
lot,
it's
27
by
77
and
so
it'll
be
a
long,
narrow
building,
and
he
said
as
long
as
I
get
to
use
my
parking
space,
I
don't
have
any
problem
with
anything
you're
doing
and
his
parking
space
that
he's
been
using
is
exactly
right
in
front
of
this
lot
and
I
said
well,
you
know
he
wanted
to
know.
Where
was
my
driveway
going
to
come
in?
Q
Well,
there's
only
one
place:
you
can't
bring
it
in
from
the
side,
it's
land
locked
on
three
sides,
and
so
I
told
him
that
our
driveway
will
come
in
in
the
front
right
off.
Presbyterian
and
that'll
be
the
garage
door
and-
and
I
did
mention
that
it's
very
nice-
the
people
at
the
church
have
a
sign
that
says
the
only
time
that
you
can't
park.
There
is
a
half
a
day
on
sunday
and
they
say,
keep
our
spaces
free
for
the
sunday
morning
service
up
till
1
30.,
and
I
mentioned
to
him.
Q
You
know
you
could
park
there
six
and
a
half
days
a
week
and
you
know,
walk
just
a
few
feet
further
and
you
know
that
other
half
a
day
on
a
sunday,
you
might
have
to
park
a
little
further
and
you
know
I
know,
there's
not
a
lot
of
parking
space
immediately
in
front
of
these
two
houses,
but
I
can't
control
that
because
those
houses
are
what
they
are,
and
you
know
I
I
mean
if
I'm
going
to
build
a
garage
whether
I
live
above
it
or
I
don't.
Q
I've
got
to
have
a
driveway,
and
you
know
those
houses
do
sit
right
on
the
lot
line
because
they
were.
There
were
no
rules
about
that.
Then.
But
ours
sits
back
further,
so
I
you
know,
I
don't
want
to
be
adverse
with
the
neighbors,
but
I
think
if
I
close
that
property,
I
have
the
right
to
get
into
the
property.
Q
So
and
anyway,
that's
just
my
comment
and
I
don't
want
to
have
a
bad
relationship
with
the
two
houses
next
door.
But
thank
you
for
your
consideration.
I
appreciate
it.
A
It's
my
personal
opinion
that
conditional
uses
are
specified
exactly
what
the
use
is
going
to
be,
and
you
can
ask
pertinent
questions
like
hours
of
operation
etc,
and
you
can
make
conditions
which
sometimes
we
do
like
down
on
one
drive.
We've
had
some
with
strings
of
conditions,
but
to
issue
a
maybe
maybe
not
conditional
use.
C
You
know
for
the
use
of
the
property,
but
if
you
were
to
build
your
house
the
garage
with
the
living
space,
you
wouldn't
we
wouldn't
be
talking
about
it
here
today,
which
means
that
this
conditional
use
may
not
be
absolutely
necessary
right.
I
think
that
goes
to
your
point
of
view.
It
is
it's
a
what-if
right.
A
A
A
That
issue
ended
up
by
spot
zoning.
Those
garages
sit
in
a
different
zoning
district
at
specialty
district
they're,
somewhat
different,
because
they're
rented
they're,
a
commercial
property
they're
rented
with
a
contract
and
in
the
process
of
that
was
use.
Number
637
was
authorized
to
be
used
in
historic
district
residential
with
a
conditional
use
use
637
as
warehousing
and
storage
services.
A
There
was
another
situation
in
june
of
2020
over
in
the
700
block
of
easter
first
street,
where
some
people
wanted
a
variance
of
use,
a
variance
of
use,
not
a
conditional
use,
but
a
variance
of
use
to
build
a
garage,
a
crot.
It
was
across
the
street
from
their
home
and
they
wanted
to
use
it
for
various
storage
kind
of
stuff
and
that
one
was
actually
denied.
A
And
the
reasoning
was
because
of
setting
a
precedent
and
because
there
had
almost
at
the
same
time,
come
up
a
situation
like
theirs.
Where
somebody
wanted
to
build
a
storage
unit,
and
they
just
finally
said
what
the
heck
we'll
just
build
a
an
apartment
above
it
and
that's
those
people
just
agreed
to
follow
the
ordinance
and
their
situation
was
resolved
and
this
one
that
one
variants
of
use
was
denied
the
ones
across
the
street
was
brought
about
because
of
actually
changing
the
zoning.
A
M
A
C
I
would
have
to
reference
your
previous
application
that
was
denied,
which
I
see
is
very
very
similar.
It.
A
R
A
F
So,
in
my
opinion,
I
I
I
don't
think
this
intended
purpose
by
the
applicant
fits
our
requirements.
Q
Q
My
husband
has
a
1954
vehicle
that
he's
renovating
and
he
has
a
nice
home
shop
that
he
had
at
our
previous
house
with
you
know
he
likes
to
tinker,
and
so
since
our
application
is
for,
we
asked
for
the
use
for
the
garage
and
that's
what
we
gave
the
little
plan
for
it's
very
simple
plan
with
the
gable
roof.
So
if
we
just
say
what
we
want
tonight
is
you're
ruling
on
a
garage,
and
you
make
that
ruling
and
let's
say
that
you
vote
that
it's
acceptable
under
your
three
categories.
Q
Then,
if
we
get
this
sorted
out
with
the
sewer
and
we
find
that
we
can
do
the
other,
then
I
guess
I
don't
really
understand
what
that
hurts,
because
we're
only
building
really
what
I
consider
is
probably
something
everybody
would
like,
which
would
be
a
residence
also.
So
I'm
just
kind
of
putting
the
blinders
on
to
anything
else
and
say
we
came
for
an
application
for
a
garage.
We
just
need
to
know.
Could
we
get
approval
on
that
because
I
think
that's
really
all
we're.
A
E
Q
A
Q
Gave
me
joe,
you
gave
me
two
two
categories
and
I
wrote
them
both
on
the
application.
I
didn't
really
know
what
the
numbers
were.
M
E
A
E
B
K
C
E
C
C
C
C
Up
to
me
is
going
back
to
this
previous
ruling,
where
the
application
wasn't
even
a
conditional
use
permit.
It
was
a
variance.
K
C
F
And
just
for
the
record,
we're
not
trying
to
be
obstinate
yeah
that
this
is
not
the
usual
type
of
application
that
we
get
so
we're
trying
to
get
our
minds
around
it.
A
C
Yeah
I'll
move
we'd
have
to
deny
the
conditional.
A
C
F
I
agree,
I
think,
we're
struggling
with
finding
a
definition
that
fits
this
application.
A
C
F
I
agree
as
well
I
mean
I,
I
think,
if
we
were
able
to
find
a
defined
use
that
fit
the
property
zoning
you
know,
we've
got
somebody
that's
wanting
to
invest
in
the
community
and
would
be
harmonious
with
the
comprehensive
plan.
A
A
A
C
F
A
Sadly,
in
a
city,
the
only
people
that
have
even
more
or
less
guaranteed
parking
space
for
people
with
handicapped
spots
and
they're
not
guaranteed,
because
somebody
else
can
park
number
five.
You
agree.
This
is
served
by
essential
public
facilities
and
services,
water
and
sewer,
etc.
C
F
Information
from
the
applicant
and
neighbors,
it
sounds
like
there's
a
water
meter
already
on
the
property,
so
water
should
be
available
and
the
the
issue
with
sewer.
You
know
it
sounds
like
it's
been
located,
but
can
they
hook
into
it,
isn't
unknown.
F
F
A
C
Oh
no,
I
do
not
think
it
will
be
any
public
expense
impact.
F
Welfare
of
our
community
again,
we've
got
somebody
that's
wanting
to
invest
in
our
community
and
we
just
got
to
try
to
figure
out
how
to
get
that
done.
A
C
A
A
Mrs
burkhart
and
I
see
no
interference
with
public
traffic
in
that
lightly.
Traveled
area,
number,
nine,
that's
destruction,
loss
or
damage
of
scenic
or
historic
features.
Mr
acosta,
no.
A
On
number
one
and
number
two
there
were
board
members
generally
thought
that
the
criterion
were
not
met.
A
D
A
A
C
A
And
may
we
have
a
roll
call,
please,
let's
explain
a
yes
means,
it's
denied.
Q
A
A
What
you
have
in
mind
and
you
get
somebody
on
planned
commissions,
say:
yeah,
that's
a
good
idea
and
they
sponsor
it
plan
commission.
If
they
approve
it
or
recommend
it,
then
it
goes
to
city
council
and
if
city
council
votes
yes,
then
the
zoning
ordinance
is
amended
and
that's
happened
well,
specifically
on
brew
pubs
in
this
town
recently.
Q
Q
A
My
papers
around
here,
okay,
moving
on
number
five
on
the
agenda,
brent
fullen
camp,
is
requesting
variants
from
development
standards,
he's
adding
a
sun
room
to
the
residence
where
it's
within
a
problem
with
our
eight
setbacks
that
it's
at
242
hendricks
street.
So.
L
L
All
of
you
guys
but
know
we're
just
trying
to
get
some
room
on
the
back
of
it,
something
that
me
and
wife
wanted.
You
know
just
a
place
to
get
out
in
the
back
and
relax
and
just
kind
of
have
our
own
space.
So
so.
A
L
Yeah
and
I
did
send
out
mail
certified
letters
for
all
of
them
and,
like
I
said,
most
of
them
got
a
hold
of
me
and
talked
to
me,
and
they
said
that
you
know
it
was
no
big
deal.
What
I
did
but,
of
course,
by
following
the
rules.
A
A
Board
members,
do
you
have
any
questions
or
comments?
No,
would
anybody
in
the
audience
like
to
speak
for
against
this
variance?
F
E
A
C
A
C
C
Maybe
they
have
this
variance
from
the
standard.
C
A
C
A
A
A
T
We
we
erected
a
a
garage,
two-car
garage
on
the
back
of
our
property
in
2010,
when
I
finally
retired
in
2018.
I
started
working
on
the
inside
and
ran
electricity.
T
Our
children
do
not
live
in
madison
one
lives
in
taiwan,
one
lives
in
louis
or
covington,
or
I'm
sorry
union
kentucky
over
by
florence
and
the
other
one
lives
in
atlanta.
T
So
when
we
constructed
that
original
thoughts
was
to
just
have
the
apartment
upstairs
for
our
children,
but
because
of
the
airbnb
business
here
in
town,
we
want
to
make
that
an
option
as
well.
So
right
now
it's
only
been
used
for
family.
T
If
you
were
to
grant
us
permission,
we'd
like
to
use
airbnb
downstairs,
we
have
about
in
the
garage
portion,
it's
about
624
feet
square
feet
and
upstairs
is
right
at
500
square
feet
upstairs.
T
T
My
sister's
actually
in
from
florida,
she
stand
in
the
apartment
right
now,
because
we
have
a
sister
with
severe
medical.
T
It
would
we
just
have
a
queen-size
bed,
so
we
do
have
air
or
air
mattress,
so
they
could,
if
it
could
be
like
a
family
right.
Four.
T
A
T
Yes
and
it's,
it
will
be
posted
on
our
website
when
we
have
that
up
and
running,
and
it
would
be
also
on
airbnb
website.
A
A
Okay,
well,
thank
you,
sir.
I
guess
we
can
go
through
our.
A
This
is
a
conditional
use
finding
effect
and
it's
under
category
581,
581
being
retail
hotels,
tourist
courts,
tourist
home
residential
motels,
transient
housing
other,
and
it's
been
used
before
similarly
number
one.
You
agree.
This
is,
in
fact
a
conditional
use,
etc.
Mr
acosta.
C
Yes,
actually
becoming
more
and
more
popular
application.
Mr.
A
F
Yes,
I
do,
I
think
the
definition
of
a
tourist
home
fits
the
application
well.
A
C
F
Yeah,
I
think
it
fits
the
the
general
objective
by
providing
tourist
lodging
for
all
of
the
events
in
downtown
madison.
A
A
C
F
I
think
it
blends
in
well
with
the
neighborhood
and
surrounding
area
and
just
fits
in
with
the
general
character
of
the
neighborhood.
Mrs.
A
A
C
No
low
occupancy,
so
I
see
no
issue
with
that.
Mr
ferros.
F
I
see
no
issues
either.
I
applaud
the
applicant
for
setting
forth
the
rules
before
coming
before
the
board.
A
A
A
C
B
H
C
No,
I
see
no,
nothing
that
will
fall
in
place
there.
Mr.
A
F
I
see
no
reason
to
believe
that
any
of
those
things
would
be
detrimental
in
this
application.
A
C
No,
it
shouldn't
interfere
with
traffic
at
all
low
occupancy,
probably
one
to
two
vehicles
at
the
most.
F
Agree
as
well
with
no
more
vehicles
that
would
be
used
to
visit
this
property,
I
think
there's
adequate
parking
on
the
side
streets.
A
E
A
So
I
move.
We
approve
this
conditional
use
for
a
period
of
one
year,
subject
to
the
following
condition
that
on
the
submitted
list
of
rules,
number
five
read:
please
feel
free
to
use
the
patio
area
swing,
chairs,
gazebo
anytime.
However,
no
loud
music,
no
noises
between
10
pm
and
10
am
are
permitted.
A
A
F
A
It
may
not
be
any
rate.
I
guess
we
continue
this
one
well,
there
are
actually
three
things
that
this
company
is
requiring
is
requesting
a
conditional
use
and
a
couple
variances,
but
we'll
just
do
the
conditional
use
which,
if
that,
for
whatever
reason,
was
not
approved,
the
variances
wouldn't
be
needed.
A
This
is
open
road
renewables,
williamspower
conditional
use
permit
to
establish
a
battery
energy
storage
system
at
4000.
North
paper
mill
road,
that's
owned
agriculture,
and
we
have
a
representative.
So,
sir,
if
you
give
your
name
and
your
address
for
the
record
and
then
proceed
with
what
you're
wanting
to
do
sure
proceed.
First
of
all,
not
the
variances,
but
about
the
application
for
the
conditional
use
understand.
I
I
Can
you
hear
me,
I've
got
the
the
president
of
open
road
renewables,
cyrus,
tasha,
corey
who's,
joining
this
meeting
he's
in
europe.
He
can't
be
here
this
evening.
Also
is
david
savage,
who
is
also
with
open
road
renewables.
I
I
I
Yes,
so
I've
got
the
the
second
slide
up.
If,
if
you
want
to
start,
I
know
this
is
a
little
unusual,
but
bear
with
us.
S
S
I'm
going
to
spend
a
couple
of
slides
talking
about
the
context
of
why
we're
doing
a
project
like
this
and
how
it's
part
of
modernizing
the
electric
grid,
but
if
we
could
move
on
to
slide
three,
the
new
tax
revenue
slide.
This
is
kind
of
a
bit
of
context
of
what's
in
it,
for
the
county
and,
what's
in
it,
for
the
community,
this
project
would
require
an
estimated
capital
investment
on
the
order
of
160
million,
and
this
is
an
investment
that
does
not
come
with.
S
Concerns
having
to
do
with
grid
reliability
and
it's
happening
in
texas-
it's
happening
in
indiana,
it's
happening
all
over
the
country
but
specific
to
indiana.
There
are
concerns
about
summer
heat
and
rolling
blackouts,
and
you
can
read
the
headlines
yourselves
there,
but
this
type
of
project
directly
addresses
that
kind
of
that
kind
of
risk.
If
you
move
on
to
slide
five,
this
bar
graph
here
just
further
illustrates
the
point
I
was
making
about
the
grid.
Reliability
issues
so
indiana
is
part
of
a
larger
grant.
S
It's
regulated
by
an
entity
called
miso
and
every
year
holds
an
auction
for
the
utilities
in
indiana
and
elsewhere,
where
they
can
buy
something
called
capacity.
It's
actually
a
resource
that
they
can
buy
and
it's
used
to
help
make
the
grid
more
stable
and
more
reliable
and
from
last
year
to
from
21
to
22
the
price
of
that
at
auction.
That
capacity
went
up
4
600.
S
That
means
that,
instead
of
being
able
to
provide
this
service
locally,
we're
going
out
to
michigan
and
kentucky
and
ohio
and
importing
capacity,
that's
less
reliable,
more
expensive
and
the
grid
operator
here
is
quoted
as
saying
that
indiana
is
at
increased
risk
of
temporary
controlled
outages
to
preserve
the
integrity
of
the
bulk
electric
system
in
texas.
In
fact,
just
a
month
and
a
half
ago,
he
waved
unexpectedly
in
may
knocked
out
six
natural
gas
plants,
and
that
resulted
in
huge
price
increases
and
to
this
day,
prices
are
about
50
above
normal
in
because
of
that.
S
S
The
last
slide
here,
on
the
background,
slide
six.
Another
reason
why
you
know
this
has
been
a
technology.
That's
been
a
utility
scale
for
over
a
decade,
but
it's
really
expanding
now,
because
it's
getting
much
much
cheaper.
It's
the
same.
It's
the
same
story
with
electric
cars
and
the
batteries
and
electric
cars
getting
much
much
cheaper.
All
of
the
utilities
in
indiana
have
requests
for
proposal
for
this
type
of
facility,
every
single
one
of
them
indiana
power
and
light
duke
aes.
S
Here
I've
got
a
bullet
about
the
third
largest
co-op
in
indiana,
developing
these
at
every
one
of
their
substations,
and
so
this
is
part.
This
is
coming.
This.
S
S
You
can
see
another
advantage
of
these
cabinets.
They're
open
from
the
outside
and
william's
power
will
be
located
on
about
10
acres
of
the
larger
parcel
directly
across
from
the
madison
duke
energy
substation,
with
a
lot
of
transmission
lines
coming
in
and
out
of
it
there's
also
a
railroad
track
there
they're.
S
You
know
it's
kind
of
unique
in
that
there
are
not
neighbors
many
neighbors
in
the
area,
especially
directly
adjacent
to
the
this
10
acres,
but
we
will
be
adding
vegetative
screening
as
part
of
our
proposal
to
obscure
the
facility
from
edges
and
roads
and
parcels,
and
this
parcel
has
we've
exhaustively
surveyed
it.
It's
been
disturbed
for
decades,
but
we
have
surveyed
it
for
wetlands,
wildlife,
all
of
the
environmental
concerns,
flood
plain
et
cetera,
and
it's
a
clean,
clean
site.
S
Slide
nine
goes
into
detail
about
the
site
layout.
What
you
can
see
here
in
the
kind
of
checkered
line
around
the
entire
facility
is
the
landscape
buffer.
Then
there's
a
internal
driveways.
There
are
a
couple
of
retention.
Pods
for
storm
water
and,
what's
also
notable
here,
is
just
how
much
empty
space.
There
is
there's
a
lot
of
empty
space
between
each
of
the
containers
around
the
containers.
There
are
setbacks,
etc.
So
all
in
all,
about
10
of
the
ground
is
actually
covered
with
something
and
the
rest
is
empty
space.
S
S
S
This
project
would
be
subject
to
the
latest
regulations
of
standards,
specifically
the
national
fire
code,
eight
five,
five
and
a
p-855
which
is
specifically
designed
for
battery
storage,
the
utility
scale
of
this
of
the
sort
and
the
latest
version
of
that
code
is
2023.
So
it
is
state-of-the-art
code.
S
S
Another
condition
is
24,
7,
continuous
monitoring
and,
as
I
mentioned,
the
key
access
that
would
be
via
knox
box
at
the
entrance
to
allow
the
ems
access
to
the
site,
health
and
safety.
I've
mentioned
ems
a
few
times,
and
I
just
want
to
point
out
that
you
know
just
like
the
building
you're
in
now,
where
there's
a
fire
code
and
there
are
certain
design
requirements.
S
That
type
of
fire,
while
the
emissions
are
similar
to
a
house
fire,
you
would
address
that
fire
differently
than
you
would
with
the
house
fire.
That's
why
you
know
we
have
such
a
focus
on
safety,
but
there
has
been
a
continuous
improvement
in
technology
in
design
and
in
the
standards
and
in
the
facility
design
over
the
last
decade,
and
this
project
would
benefit
from
that
continuous
improvement.
S
S
S
Slide
16
shows
the
project
schedule
where
we
are
currently
in
that
schedule.
Maybe
a
couple
months
behind
schedule
with
this
approval.
It's
not
the
final
approval.
We'll
need
is
a
gating
approval,
but
we
will
be.
You
know,
proceeding
on
to
the
other
steps
along
the
way
for
bringing
the
project
online
in
the
2425
time
frame.
S
I'm
sure
there
are
questions
so
I'll
just
mention
on
slide
17.
That
is
my
cell
phone
number.
Please
feel
free
to
reach
out
to
me.
If
there's
anyone
in
the
public
that
has
questions
or
concerns,
we're
eager
to
you
know,
take
input
and
make
the
project
better.
If
we
can
so,
please
feel
free
to
reach
out
and
tim
can
provide.
I
So
with
that,
since
we're
dealing
with
the
two
variances
next,
we
went
through
a
lot
of
information
on
a
a
use
that
is
unique
in
the
sense
that
there
really
aren't
a
lot
of
them
in
indiana
ipl
now
indiana
aes
has
has
one
that's
been
there
in
indianapolis
for
five
or
six
years,
there's
one
associated
with
the
solar
project.
Sometimes
they're
done
they're,
smaller,
typically,
when
they're
done
that
way.
I
But
this
is
a
new
type
of
use,
a
couple
of
additional
follow-ups
to
what
cyrus
indicated
one
there
was
an
article
in
the
indianapolis
star
was
picked
up
from,
I
think
the
ap
in
april,
the
united
states,
for
the
first
time
ever
hit
28
of
their
energy
is
being
produced
by
renewable
sources
and
the
sun
doesn't
always
shine
and
the
wind
doesn't
always
blow
so.
Storage
is
becoming
critical
to
deal
with
peak
demands
which
you
get
in
hot
weather.
I
One
two,
I
know
there's
one
house
here,
that's
about
500
feet
or
more
away.
That's
it!
The
rest
of
this,
we
feel,
is
ideal,
given
the
location
of
the
a
very
large
substation,
the
power
lines
coming
out
of
it
and
in
the
railroad
track
it.
It
really
is
incredibly
innocuous,
especially
compared
to
other
renewable
sources.
I
If
you
were
looking
at,
for
example,
a
solar
project
to
deliver
the
same
amount
of
electricity
back
onto
the
grid,
it's
going
to
be
more
than
a
hundred
times
larger
in
size.
So,
instead
of
taking
up
just
10
acres,
it's
taking
up
a
thousand
acres
or
more
so
very
low
profile
can
be
easily
screened,
makes
no
noise,
no
odor,
no
dust,
no
traffic,
it's
just
kind
of
there
and
and
is
easy
to
live
with.
So
with
that
we'd
be
more
than
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
I
I
They
rely
on
companies
like
open
road
renewables
to
put
projects
together.
It's
a
five
to
seven
year
time
period
to
get
through
everything,
and
they
don't
want
to
spend
the
time
and
effort
doing
that
they
would
rather
other.
C
I
Risk
and
then,
when
you've
got
everything
set
up
and
ready
to
go,
that's
when
the
the
dukes
of
the
world
or
the
rmcs
or
or
nipsco
or
folks
like
that,
will
will
come
and
jump
in
on
the
projects
and
they'll
either
just
buy
the
whole
thing
or
they'll
they'll,
you
know
sometimes
just
become
partners
or
buy
the
ownership
entity
become
the
the
owner
of
williams,
power,
llc
and
so
that's
getting
little
glimpse
into
the
to
the
variance.
But
that's
the
that's
the
process
here
that
that
we're
going
through.
I
Well,
let's
all
hope
it
doesn't.
I
The
osiris-mentioned
these
batteries
are
lithium
type
batteries,
there's
no
liquid
in
them
at
all,
and
it's
no
different
than
the
battery.
That's
in
this
phone
batteries
that
are
in
cars
that
are
parked
in
garages
would
get
hit
by
tornadoes.
I
I
So
you
know
you
go
pick
them
up
and
you
you
do
that
because
that's
the
right
thing
to
do
one,
but
two
they're
they're
rather
valuable
those
those
like
little
buildings.
They
almost
look
like
a
a
storage
container.
I
You
open
them
up
and
it's
it's
just
a
series
of
batteries
and
that
that
allows
a
couple
of
things
one:
it's
why
the
life
expectancy
is
really
probably
20
years,
because
that's
how
long
most
agreements
are
relationships
with
utilities
if
they
don't
buy
it,
but
you're
able
to
you.
The
technology
allows
them
to
identify
a
battery
that
may
not
be
operating
properly
so
that
you
just
come,
pull
it
out
and
put
a
new
one
in.
I
Taken
out
is
sent
off
site
out
of
the
county
to
a
recycling
center
and
all
of
the
batteries
are
recycled
and
and
reused,
because
they're
they're,
very
valuable,
and
if
a
tornado
hit
it.
That's
that's
that's
what
would
happen.
We
search
out
any
of
the
batteries
to
the
extent
that
you
know
they
were
destroyed
or
ripped
up,
they're
pretty
low
profile
heavy,
and
so
it
would
really
take
a
while
a
true
direct
hit
for
for
anything
to
happen
to
him.
A
I
S
A
S
A
I
would
appreciate
that
my
third
question
is,
I
notice
you
say
you're
going
to
have
training
of
local
fire
departments
and
so
forth.
Are
there
any
special?
Is
there
any
special
firefighting
equipment,
that's
required
in
case
of
a
fire
in
this
and
who
would
pay
for
buying
the
equipment
if
it's
required.
I
So
this
is
kind
of
a.
If
you
look
closely
at
this,
it's
kind
of
a
checkerboard
pattern.
You
have
that
kind
of
storage
container.
If
you
will
of
the
batteries,
that's
on
a.
I
Tied
to
it
and
will
get
the
design
speed
for
you,
but
they're
designed
like
that.
For
a
reason,
if,
let's
say
there
was
a
lightning
strike
on
one
of
the
storage
containers,
the
there's.
No
people
in
that
storage,
container
they're,
just
batteries,
and
you
do
not
put
people's
lives
and
safety
at
risk.
F
So
it
looks
like
other
countries,
australia
and
new
zealand
have
developed
safety
requirements
for
installation
of
such
systems.
F
Is
there
any
governing
body
or
certifying
body
in
in
indiana
or
the
u.s
that
that
you're,
aware
of
for
setting
standards
for
installation
of
these
types.
I
Yes,
so
indiana
has
not
adopted
anything
and
actually
we're
we're
encouraging
them
to
adopt
the
rule,
what
it
should
be
like
the
indiana,
in
our
opinion,
like
the
indiana
building
code,
but
the
indiana
building
code
is
for
those
of
you
that
know
is
indiana
takes
a
specific
version
of
the
international
building
code,
the
ibc
they
make
amendments
to
it
and
that
right
now
it's
the
2012
ibc
plus
the
adopted
amendments.
That's
the
indiana
building
code.
It
contains
requirements
that
all
new
buildings
have
to
comply
with,
including
fire
protection
building,
safety,
people,
safety,
etc.
I
Indiana
hasn't
adopted
anything
for
battery
energy
storage
systems,
so
one
of
the
things
you'll
see
in
the
commitments
is
that
we
would
comply
with
and
cyrus
referred
to
it
before
it's
standard
855..
It's.
I
Nfpa
is
national
fire
protection
association,
they
promulgate
the
model
rules
kind
of
like
ibc
for
buildings,
kind
of
like
some,
you
know
astm
for
certain
industrial
standards.
I
I
Yeah
in
in
the
I'll
come
back
to
that
in
a
second,
but
so
we
would
agree
to
comply
with
that
standard
which
cyrus
mentioned
is
is
going
to
be
amended
and
updated
for
2023.
I
We
won't
be
starting
to
build
this
because
of
the
timeline
until
2024,
so
we'll
comply
with
whatever
the
newest
standards
are,
which
are
which
are
best
practices,
and
if
indiana
in
the
in
in
adopt
standards,
we
will
have
to
comply
with
those
and
we'll
comply
with
whichever
standard
is
stricter
because
you
you
prepare
for
the
worst
and
design,
so
you
don't
have
to
deal
with
it,
which,
which
is
what
you
do
with
public
safety.
E
I
S
I
In
your
own
safety,
subnet
with
that
correct
and
in
part
of
this
proposal
includes
an
emergency
management
plan
that
will
be
discussed
and
approved
by
the
emergency
management
head
of
emergency
management
services
agency
for
the
for
the
county
in
which
all
of
the
local
fire
departments
participate.
I
S
There's
an
alignment
of
interest
in
making
sure
that
it's
operating,
you
know
perfectly
if
you
think
about
the
level
of
investment.
That's
involved,
especially
if
it's
either
owned
by
or
contracted.
S
S
A
Is
this
potentially
going
to
extend
the
life
of
the
clifty
creek
power
plant?
So
I
gather
that
your
general
idea
is
you'll
charge
the
batteries
at
night
when
demand
is
low
and
then
at
peak
periods
during
the
day
when
it
gets
hot,
for
example,
and
everybody's
air
conditioner
comes
on,
then
you'll
release
power
from
the
system,
but
a
good
deal.
Well,
you
chose
this
because
clifty
creek
power
plants
is
right
down
the
mile
or
two
away,
so.
I
I
That
the
location
of
of
clifton
creek
powerpoint
actually
doesn't
have
anything
to
do
with
this
location.
It's
the
it's
the
location
of
the
substation,
because
that's
how
we
offload
and
upload
electricity
onto
the
grid-
and
I
don't
know
what
the
current
owner's
plans
are
for
that
power
station
so
and
I
don't
think
that
I
don't
know,
can't
even
see
how
this
project
would
do
anything
to
lengthen
the
life
expectancy
of
that
plant.
I,
the
two
are
unrelated.
O
I
Yes,
it
has
to
be
close
to
a
substation
where
there
is
a
reasonable
expectation
that
miso,
which
controls
the
electric
grid
in
indi,
almost
all
of
indiana
and
several
other
midwest
states.
They.
You
have
to
go
through
a
very
elaborate
process
and
that's
where
they
started
here
by
the
way
the
first
application
was
with
them
because
they
it's
such
a
long
technical
process.
I
N
I
Ideally,
next
to
an
a
a
substation
has
to
have
adequate
capacity
with
the
grid
to
upload
with
a
willing
property
owner
and
ideally
in
an
area
that
makes
sense.
I
mean
you,
wouldn't
try
to
put
this
in
downtown
madison.
You
want
to
put
it
out
where
there
is
a
substation,
other
transmission,
two
other
really
large
transmission
lines
and
a
railroad
track
in
a
predominantly
rural
area.
So
you
you
try
to
find
a
spot
that
checks
all
those
boxes
and
this
spot
checks
those
boxes.
I
But
it's
going
to
benefit
all
of
the
customers
in
indiana
and
not
just
in
madison
or
not
just
in
jefferson
county,
but
it
will
benefit
on
a
wider
basis
and
the
the
two
benefits
from
a
customer
perspective
and
cyrus
went
through
them
in
the
presentation
are
really
two-fold:
one:
reliability,
everything's
all
fine
and
dandy
until
it's
98
degrees
out
and
your
power
goes
out,
you
don't
have
air
conditioning
and
the
other
benefit
is
is
cost
the
that
bar
graph
go
back
to
it
here.
F
You're
saying
that
installing
this
station
is
going
to
make
our
utility
bills
go
down.
I
It
will
stop
them
from
going
up,
hopefully
so
much
whether
they'll
make
them
go
down.
I
don't
know.
I
Yeah
yeah,
let's
be
honest
right,
but
you
look
at
look
at
that
cost,
that
that
is
a
reflection
of
direct
reflection
of
the
the
lack
of
capacity
and
that
that
needs
to
be
fixed
or
instead
of
the
costs
going
like
this.
They
go
like
that.
C
C
Somebody
from
the
state
legislature
spoke
and
honestly
sounded
like
just
someone
that
was
against
a
project
almost,
but
they
made
mention
of
a
task
force
that
the
governor
has
in
place
studying
this
energy
storage
systems,
and
they
made
some
comment
to
the
effect
that
the
size
of
the
one
that
being
proposed
in
laporte
was,
you
know
multiple
times
larger
than
any
of
the
other
ones
in
indiana.
C
So
again,
the
the
way
it
read
to
me
probably
skewed
towards
one
direction
there,
but
just
what
information
or
background
can
you
guys
give
on
that?
I
mean
this
sounds.
C
I
Yeah
be
happy
to
so
it
was
representative
pressel
by
the
way
and
that
location
of
that
one
is
a
lot
closer
to
residential
areas.
He
was
he
was
contacted
by
some
of
his
constituents
and
showed
up
without
having
a
conversation
with
us
first
and
that
that
was
unfortunate.
I
wish
we
would
have
known
he
was
coming.
I
We
we
would
have
been
happy
to
even
continue
the
hearing
to
go
through
and
part
what
we've
been
going
through
tonight,
because,
quite
frankly,
despite
best
intentions,
there
was
a
lot
of
misinformation
going
on
there
and
we're
frankly
in
the
process
of
fixing
that
so
we've
we've
actually
continued.
The
dialogue
with
representative
prussell
we've
there's
a
there's
a
committee,
but
it's
a
it's
a
regular
standing
committee
of
the
legislature
that
we've
reached
out
to
and
we've
our
suggestion
is:
hey
adopt,
standard
855..
I
If
you
understand
what's
going
on
here,
you
know
we
don't
think
anybody
should
be
getting
terribly
excited
about
what's
being
proposed,
because
if
you
look
at
the
whole
vast
array,
particularly
on
the
energy
side,
but
even
on
the
industrial
side
of
the
world,
the
the
risks
associated
with
this
project,
as
it
relates
to
the
public
as
a
whole,
is
is
very,
very
small.
I
And
it's
like,
I
said
at
the
conclusion
of
the
hearing
you,
you
know
it's
ten
feet
tall,
which
is
shorter
than
the
peak
of
a
ranch
home.
No
noise,
no
odor,
no
dust.
The
noise
is
hvac
units
like
air
conditioners,
and
it's
just
just
kind
of
there
and
it's
a
lot
smaller
than
a
big
old
farm.
I
D
E
S
S
S
You
know
manufacturers,
fire
sensor,
manufacturers,
all
this
kind
of
stuff,
so
obviously
they've
been
working
on
this
for
over
a
decade
and
and
the
best
case
scenario
for
indiana
is,
if
they
really
went
up
above
and
beyond,
would
be
to
adopt
some
standard
as
as
detailed
as
nfpa
855.,
so
we're
we're
putting
that
in
on
this
project.
You
know
directly
in
response
to
to.
I
S
You
know
that
is,
that
is
a
possibility
to
be
perfectly
frank
that
not
not
start
construction,
but
you
know
an
approval
here.
A
land
use
approval
by
by
this
board
doesn't
guarantee
that
we'll
be
successful
with
this
project.
Certainly
a
project
would
never
start
construction
or
achieve
financing
and
then
not
be
finished,
but
you
know
there
are
other
things
along
the
way
that
I
mean,
we've
all
seen.
Supply
chain
impacts
over
the
last
couple
of
years,
all
kinds
of
surprises
that
could
come
up
that
would
prevent
the
project
from
going
across
the
finish
line.
S
We've
done
a
lot
of
work
already.
We've
spent
millions
of
dollars
already
on
this
project.
We
put
it
into
the
mysoq
way
back
in
2019,
we've
done
tons
of
work,
so
we
feel
very
confident
that,
given
this
lady's
approval,
given
the
you
know
the
demand
from
the
duke
energy
and
other
folks
that
this
project
is
going
to
be
successful
and
everything
we're
showing
you
here
will
be
realized.
But
it's
not
a
guarantee.
S
There's
still
risks
that
you
know,
for
a
variety
of
reasons
completely
unrelated
to
this
land
use
decision
that
the
project
could
not
come
online,
but
we're
putting
our
money.
You
know
where
our
mouth
is,
and
but
it
is
a
gaining
item
that
we
need
this
land
use
approval
in
order
to
move
on
to
the
next
steps.
If
you
look
at
the
schedule
on
on
slide
16,
you
can
kind
of
see
that
there
are.
There
are
next
steps,
and
this
is
a
gating
item
to
those
next.
F
I
No-
and
you
know
frankly-
and
you
almost
got
the
number
right
for
anybody
to
try
to
do
that-
they
would
have
to
go
through
that
that
that
process
that
here,
let
me
get
to
it
in
the
slides
here
on
16.
I
So
they'd
have
to
go
through
this
process.
They're
we're
not
aware
of
anybody.
There's
nobody
in
the
miso
queue.
So
if
somebody
wanted
to
do
it,
they'd
have
to
come
up
with
the
application
for
the
mysoq
and
get
it
submitted
and
then
you're
still
seven
years
out
and
that's
not
part
of
our
application.
It's
not
something.
We
plan
on
building.
I
A
Personally,
I
see
nothing
wrong
with
a
project
like
this.
It
just
looks
to
me
like
what
you're
doing
essentially
is.
As
old
coal-fired
power
plants
die
down,
you'll
just
be
using
remaining
power
plants
more
efficiently,
instead
of
a
fluctuating
high
demand
during
the
day,
low
demand
at
night
boilers
going
on
and
off
generators
going
up
and
down
so.
D
E
N
A
I
I
Can
go
get
that,
but
we
can't
provide
that
tonight.
N
So
is
there
anything
else
in
your
presentation
that
would
need
to
be
added
to
do
the
the
variance
proposals,
or
did
you
cover
everything
in
this
presentation.
I
You
know
really
we
we
covered
everything.
There
might
be
some
specific
questions
related
to
that,
but
when
you
look
at
the
time
period
involved,
this
is
for
indiana.
It's
extraordinarily
elaborate
in
terms
of
what
you
have
to
do
to
get
a
renewable
energy
project
done.
I
mean
I've.
I've
done
approvals
for
landfills
that
are
quicker
than
these
things.
N
Okay,
these-
those
are
the
two
things
we
talked
about
on
the
phone
yeah.
I
We
didn't
want
to
get
any
other
variances,
but
the
two
variances
were
pursuing
are
because
of
the
the
time
period
involved
and
the
money
involved,
it's
impossible
to
a
have,
a
conditional
use
that
we
have
to
get
a
renewal
on,
because
no
one
is
going
to
invest
160
million
dollars
when
a
year
from
now
or
even
five
years
from
now,
they
could
not.
They
might
not
be
able
to
use
it
and
then
we're
going
to
have
a
decommissioning
agreement
that
would
require
us
to
rip
it
out.
I
I
That
it
would
make
the
project
impossible
and
then,
in
terms
of
of
ownership
again
we
have
every
expectation
that
the
ownership
ultimately
will
more
than
likely
involve
a
public
utility
and
the
the
obvious
one
is
duke
they
actually
have
an
rfb
out
there,
and
so
you
know
we
we,
you
know
again,
it's
customary
in
this
industry
for
companies
like
open
road
renewables
to
run
out
there,
as
cyrus
mentioned.
I
They've
spent
a
lot
of
money
just
on
this
site
and
it's
on
the
come
and
the
utilities
don't
want
to
take
that
risk
if
somebody
else
is
willing
to,
and
there
are
companies
out
there
like
open
road
that
are,
and
so,
if
you
can't
transfer
title,
then
you
you
can't
do
the
project
and
that
the
sa
in
response
to
that,
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why,
with
respect
to
these
commitments,
we
want
them
executed
in
the
chain
of
title
so
that
they
are
binding,
regardless
of
who
owns
it.
That's
the
way
to
be
safe.
N
C
D
I
D
C
N
A
And
would
it
be
best
just
to
postpone
this
to
our
next
regular
meeting
or
have
a
special.
I
Project,
that's
not
a
little
thing
and
if
you
all
aren't
comfortable
right
now,
then
we
think
the
project
speaks
for
itself.
So
you
know.