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C
Good
afternoon,
welcome
to
this
virtual
meeting
of
the
charter
commission's
government
structure
work
group.
The
meeting
includes
the
remote
participation
of
members
as
authorized
under
minnesota
statutes,
section
13d
.021,
due
to
the
declared
local
health
pandemic.
For
the
record,
my
name
is
greg
abbott.
I
am
one
of
the
co-chairs
of
the
charter
commission's
government
structure
work
group.
I
will
now
call
this
meeting
to
order
and
ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
role
so
that
we
may
verify
the
presence
of
a
quorum.
C
D
C
E
C
D
D
C
All
right
the
motion
has
passed
and
the
agenda
is
adopted.
Item
three
on
the
agenda
is
a
review
of
comparable
jurisdictions,
we're
gonna,
chair,
abbott,.
F
Yes,
but
before
you
get
started,
I
just
wanted
to
introduce
new
commissioner
diana
hawkins,
who
has
joined
us
and
is
at
least
I
can
see
her
welcome.
Commissioner
hawkins
we're
glad
to
have
you
thank.
C
All
right
and
thanks
for
joining
us
in
the
work
group,
so
we'll
obviously
see
you
at
the
main
meeting
in
early
january
item
three
again
on
the
agenda
is
reviewing
a
report
submitted
by
commissioner
ginder
of
comparable
jurisdictions
and
their
government
structures
for
use
in
developing
proposals
for
our
own
potential
amendments
and
I'll
turn
over
the
the
floor
here
to
commissioner
ginder.
Who
can
give
us
a
short
presentation
about
his
his
work.
H
Thank
you,
claire.
One
of
the
things
that
you
realize
when
you
go
through
all
of
the
various
city
charters
is
that
many
of
these
are
difficult
to
really
read
what
is
happening
in
the
city.
So
when
I
did
these
summaries,
these
are
my
best
reads:
it's
not
just
the
charter
itself.
They
said
I
won't
plan
to
interpret
them
under
state
law
or
to
delve
into
any
local
people
that
might
explicitly
what
is
really
going
on
in
the
charter.
H
H
Instituting
the
budget
process
and
setting
the
vision
or
goals
of
a
city
in
general
for
each
city,
those
are
subject
to
review
council.
So
what
things
that
are,
I
think
of
interest
to
our
group.
Are
it's
important
that
talk
to
the
strength
of
the
mayor
in
these
strong
mayor
cities?
One
thing
that
you'll
notice
is
that
the
mayor
has
a
much
greater
authority
to
appoint
people
to
all
the
various
boards
and
conditions
in
each
city.
If
you
notice
in
minneapolis.
H
Well,
it
is
not
as
complicated
or
believed
as
it
once
was.
The
open
appointment
still
has
a
number
of
appointing
authorities.
I
mean
most
of
the
cities
that
I
reviewed.
The
mayor
is
the
lead
person
and
does
most
of
the
appointing
previous.
C
Interject
peter
your
audio
quality
is
not
great
you're
breaking
up
on
us.
I
don't
know
if
it's
there's
something
on
your
end
or
if
it's
so
the
tech
people
can
give
us
some
advice.
H
H
Trying
to
stay
maybe
a
little
closer
other
things
that
I
notice
is
that
probably
I
think,
except
for
one
all
of
the
charters,
that
we
looked
at
specifically
delineate
the
mayor
as
the
chief
executive
officer
of
each
city,
which
minneapolis
does
not
do
and
most
of
the
charters
also
describe
the
mayor
as
the
chief
minister
of
officer.
H
So
right
out
of
the
gate
in
each
of
these
charter
cities.
You
see
that
the
executive
and
administrative
functions
are
pretty
much
aligned
underneath
the
mayor,
you'll
also
notice
in
several
of
the
cities
that
there
are
specific
prohibitions
against
the
city
council
being
involved
in
administrative
functions,
that
their
their
role
is
strictly
limited
to
the
legislative
function.
And
so
I
think
in
two
or
three
of
the
cities
that
I
looked
at.
H
H
Another
thing
that
I
thought
was
was
useful,
or
it
was
interesting,
is
that.
H
There
is
mostly
cities,
nothing
like
our
executive
committee
that
imposes
a
third
body,
as
were
between
the
mayor
and
the
council.
So
in
most
of
these
cities
the
mayor
is
the
person
that
either
can
appoint
or
remove
the
department
head,
and
so,
unlike
minneapolis
words.
Technically,
the
executive
committee
makes
that
decision
to
move
forward
with
that
subject
to
council
approval.
H
H
Whether
and
if
they
are
appointed
for
term
what
is
the
length
of
the
term,
how
many
cities
have
positions
where
that
are
served
strictly
at
the
pleasure
of
the
mayor,
so
you'll
see
even
in
the
strong
mayor
cities,
there's
not
a
uniformity
in
how
that
is
done,
and
one
other
aspect
of
that
is
that
in
almost
every
city
that
I
look
at
police
and
fire
are
a
little
bit
of
outliers.
H
They
are
treated
a
little
bit
differently
than
regular
department
heads,
whether
they're
deemed
in
the
administrative
department
or
in
the
executive
department.
So
some
city
might
have
a
commission
that
gets
involved
in
it.
H
So
on
a
high
level,
those
are
some
of
the
things
that
I
saw
when
I
reviewed
whatever
it
was
a
six
or
seven
stronger
system.
You
know
some
kind
of
correlations
to
what
they
do
is
what
to
me
is
to
what
minneapolis
does.
So.
That's
all
that
I
really
prepared
to
say
on
that
obviously,
would
be
prepared
to
answer
any
questions
that
I
can.
F
I
do
thank
you,
commissioner
minneapolis.
As
you
know,
for
most
offices
other
than
the
chief
of
police
has
a
two-year
term,
and
I'm
just
wondering
for
those
jurisdictions
that
do
have
terms
is
that
typical?
Is
that
shorter
than
normal,
and
also
in
conjunction
with
that
do
terms
usually
run
concurrently
with
the
term
of
the
mayor.
H
Chair
clay
I'll
try
to
answer
that,
probably
in
reverse
seniority,
I
I
wasn't
able
to
tell
if
they
ran
concurrently
with
the
term
of
the
mayor,
or
at
least
that
wasn't
a
focus
that
I
had
when
I
looked
at
this
confirms
that
we're
at
the
pleasure
of
the
mayor
and
so
that
in
that
sense
I
suppose
it
would
run
along
with
the
mayor,
although
not
necessarily
a
lot
of
the
cities
had
differing
terms
for
differing
positions,
so
in
one
city,
an
hr
term
might
be
say,
for
example,
five
years
the
finance
director
might
be
four
years
and
the
police
chief
might
be
something
different.
H
C
If
I
can
ask
commissioner
ginder
you,
you
talked
a
bit
in
your
your
memo
about
these
non-interference
clauses
that
try
to
keep
the
council
from
getting
involved
in
administrative
or
executive
functions.
It
struck
me
from
what
you
wrote
that
those
seem
to
be
more
common
than
not,
and
could
you
speak
to
that
a
little
bit
or
how
effective
are
those?
Could
you
tell.
H
Well,
I
I
can't
tell
exactly
how
effective
they
are
and
how
they
actually
operate
in
practice
as
far
as
how
common
they
are.
I
suppose
half
of
the
cities
that
we
that
I
looked
at
for
the
strong
air
system
had
some
kind
of
language
in
the
charter
about
a
non-interference
clause,
and
I
know,
for
example,
when
I
read
the
summary
of
the
interviews
with
department
heads
one
of
the
individuals
there
pointed
out
that
the
city
of
duluth
similarly
has
a
non-interference
clause
in
in
their
charter.
H
C
And
there's
nothing
as
I
understand
it,
comparable
to
what
we
have
in
minneapolis
with
an
executive
committee
I
mean
we've
been
told
and
from
what
all
of
us
have
looked
at
I
mean
my
impression
is
that
minneapolis
system
is
pretty
unique,
but
is
there
anything
that
you've
researched
that
would
disabuse
us
of
that
notion
or
are
we
are?
We?
Are
we
still
kind
of
in
our
own
structured
system.
H
As
far
as
I
can
tell,
commissioner,
we're
still
unique
in
that
regard,
closest
thing
that
you
will
see
to
that
is
in
some
of
the
cities
where
they
have
commissions
that
are
involved
in
the
selection
of
either
a
mayor.
Excuse
me,
police,
chief
or
a
fire
chief,
so
a
city
like
I
believe,
it's
milwaukee
or
detroit
or
oakland.
You
have
commissions
that
get
involved
in
that
selection,
which
complicates
it
a
little
bit,
but
there's
nothing
like
what
we
have
in
minneapolis.
That
is.
C
Commissioner,
schwarzkopf,
you
had
your
hand
up
and
then
took
it
down.
Do
you
have
any.
G
D
G
Now,
when
we
had
that
amendment,
it
made
that
the
mayor
got
involved
in
choosing
all
the
other
department
heads
and
slowly,
but
surely
that
committee
then
turned
into
kind
of
a
labor
committee.
G
They
gave
the
city
coordinator
the
responsibility
to
meet
with
the
department
heads
and
to
work
with
them
on
developing
what
their
goals
and
what
they
were
supposed
to
accomplish
that
year,
based
upon
what
was
coming
out
of
their
committees
that
they
reported
to,
and
then
we
would
sit
down
with
the
committee
at
the
end
of
the
year
and
go
through
it
with
them.
So
we
had
some
way
of
really
checking
how
department
heads
were
doing.
G
That
was
the
first
time.
The
city
coordinator
then
had
some
real
authority
to
really
encourage
department
heads
to
work
together
with
the
council
mayor
until
that
time,
the
city
coordinator
only
had
the
responsibility
of
urging
them
and
helping
them,
and
things
like
that.
So
it
was
kind
of
interesting
to
see
how
that
new
committee
worked.
G
It
brought
the
mayor
into
government
more
with
the
council,
because
until
that
time
the
council
basically
ran
everything,
and
it
also
gave
us
a
chance
to
develop
some
kind
of
a
reporting
responsibility
for
the
for
the
department
heads
in
the
end.
H
Well,
I
remember
part
of
that,
and
also
what
really
and
I
think
in
part
what
happened
was
the
mayor
gave
up
some
of
his
or
her
authority
to
appoint
the
police
chief
in
order
to
gain
greater
control
and
input
into
appointment
of
all
the
other
department
heads
because,
prior
to
that
time,
the
city
council
had
a
greater
say
in
the
plan
than
the
department
heads
and
then.
A
H
Conversely,
for
example,
the
13
years
that
I
was
a
deputy
city
attorney
where
I
was
involved
some
of
this-
I
don't
know
how
many
times
the
performance
review
process
changed
for
department
heads
trying
to
figure
out,
what's
a
good
way
to
do
a
performance
review.
How
much
do
you
involve
the
city
council?
How
much
do
you
involve
the
executive
committee?
How
much
of
this
is
public?
H
What
shouldn't
be
public,
and
I
think
you
saw
that
in
some
of
the
notes
prepared
by
the
committee
after
the
interview
with
department
heads
is
they're
uncomfortable
with
the
performance
review
process
and
which
often
times
deals
while
they're
being
reviewed
by
a
number
of
people.
So
if
that's
not
evident
when
you
review
the
charters,
but
I
suspect
it's
one
thing:
that's
much
a
cleaner
process
in
cities
with
strong
mayor.
C
Systems
there
any
other
questions
or
statements
with
respect
to
commissioner
kinder's
report.
C
Okay
hearing
none
will
proceed
on
and,
and
thank
you
peter
for
for
putting
that
together.
That
was
very
informative
and
I'm
sure
that's
going
to
get
incorporated
into
our
work
down
the
line.
The
next
item
on
the
agenda
is
review
of
feedback
from
department
heads.
D
D
Yes,
thank
you.
Sorry,
I
was
trying
to
desperately
get
my
little
hand
button
push.
I
think,
as
we
do
go
to
the
next
the
next
agenda
item.
Just
I
just
wanted
to.
D
Let
folks
know
that
the
city
clerk
is
currently
talking
to
duluth,
rochester
and
saint
paul
to
the
other
cities
of
the
first
class
in
the
state
of
minnesota,
to
have
for
us
to
have
the
opportunity
to
talk
to
them
at
one
of
our
january
meetings,
so
I
think
maybe
asking
them
some
of
these
pieces
about
how
their
city
runs
could
be
another
another
source
of
comparable
information.
C
Anyway,
back
to
item
four,
the
feedback
on
our
interviews
with
city
department,
heads
as,
as
everybody
knows,
we've
we've
put
together
a
kind
of
a
longish
memo
kind
of
summarizing
the
results
of
those
interviews,
and
I
suspect
that
most
of
you
probably
glanced
at
it.
But
given
the
time
involved,
I
don't
know
that
a
lot
of
people
have
really
read
through
it
in
detail,
and
I
would
encourage
people
to
read
this.
C
You
know
to
take
this
document
and
actually
take
some
time
to
study
it,
because
I
think
there
were
some
really
really
important
points
that
were
developed
in
these
interviews
and
I
think
that's
something
that
really
is
going
to
inform
how
we
proceed
on
this,
at
least.
From
my
perspective
I
wanted
to
before
we
open
up
a
discussion,
I
wanted
to
just
read
some
excerpts
for
the
sake
of
the
meeting
and
for
those
who
might
be
watching
the
meeting
without
this
having
this
document
in
front
of
them.
C
Let
me
just
you
know
in
the
introduction.
I
think
there
was
a
strong
statement
overall
department
heads
expressed
unanimous
belief
that
the
current
structure
lacks
strong
accountability,
is
overly
complex
and
highly
inefficient
and
is
significantly
influenced
by
personalities
of
individual
elected
officials.
C
The
quote
here,
I
think,
is
relevant.
A
primary
concern
articulated
by
department
heads
was
the
lack
of
accountability
under
the
current
structure.
The
diffuse
structure
results
in
an
operating
culture
of
quote
governance
by
committee,
unquote,
which
can
lead
to
having
quote
too
many
cooks
in
the
kitchen,
unquote
in
which
no
one
person
or
position
is
ultimately
responsible
for
outcomes.
C
C
A
lack
of
efficiency
and
high
waste
is
another
significant
flaw
directly
attributable
to
the
current,
the
city's
current
organizational
structure.
The
current
structure
lacking
a
central
coordinating
point
results
in
multiple
and
sometimes
conflicting,
staff
directions,
most
of
which
are
not
prioritized
or
evaluated
for
duplication,
often
with
unanticipated
consequences.
C
C
The
multiple
crises
the
city
has
faced
during
calendar
calendar
year
2020-
and
this,
I
think,
is
a
fairly
good
summary
of
that
in
the
year,
and
this
is
off
of
page
seven
in
the
early
days
and
weeks
watching
events
unfold.
During
these
crises,
it
was
difficult
to
identify
who
exactly
was
in
charge
of
the
city
and
the
city's
response.
C
I
think
you
know
from
my
perspective
and
obviously
we're
going
to
open
this
up
for
questions
and
discussions,
and
I
would
encourage
people
to
you
know,
ask
you
know
chair
clegg,
cochair,
garcia
and
myself.
Over
conducting
the
interviews,
I
thought
that
you
know
we've
had
in
minneapolis
for
many
years
this
theoretical
discussion
about
how
the
structure
is
flawed
or
inefficient.
We've
had
talk
about
the
14
bosses
problem,
but
the
actual
interviews
with
the
department
heads
really
clarified.
C
For
me
how
kind
of
urgent
it
is
to
kind
of
sort
these
issues
out,
and
it
really
added,
I
think,
some
motivation,
at
least
for
my
end,
to
to
produce,
I
think,
a
a
an
option
for
the
voters
to
consider
next
year.
At
any
rate,
let
me
ask
co-chair
garcia:
do
you
have
anything
to
add
what
was
your
response
to
the
interviews.
D
Thank
you
co-chair
abbott.
I
think
one
thing
that
is
interesting
is
at
the
same
time
there
was
some
clear
indication
about
perhaps
what
didn't
work.
Well,
I
found
that
the
observations
about
what
does
work
really
well
to
be
interesting.
For
example,
they
said
that
the
budget
process
works
well,
largely
because
of
the
clear
delineation
of
the
roles
and
responsibilities
as
well.
D
As
I
know,
the
the
neighborhood
2040
plan
was
quite
contentious
in
communities,
but
they
spoke
about
it
in
terms
of
a
process
and
making
progress
on
that
process,
and
they
said
that
that
also
worked
well
and
it
seems
like
when
there
is
either
clearly
spelled
out
or
a
cleared
clear
tradition
or
practice
of
everybody,
knowing
what
lane
they're
in
and
having
a
set
goal
or
set
focus
that
that's
when
the
the
enterprise
seems
to
work
at
its
best,
and
the
other
thing
that
I
thought
was
interesting
is
especially
for
when,
when
the
mayor
made
his
emergency
declaration
and
some
of
the
departments
came
together
as
a
policy
group
and
kind
of
acted
as
a
cabinet,
so
to
speak,
that
was
also
very
effective.
D
So,
despite
kind
of
the
diffuse
issues
and
the
kind
of
stepping
on
each
other's
toes,
so
to
speak,
that
commissioner
abbott
mentioned
it,
an
interesting
nut
to
crack
would
be
what
is
it
about
where
there
does
seem
to
be
breakdown,
and
where
is
it
where
people
do
seem
to
function
well
together
and
are
there?
Is
there
anything
in
common.
C
Good,
let's,
let's
open
up
your
questions
or
comments
from
the
rest
of
the
group.
H
Chair
this
is
commissioner
ginder.
I
have
a
comment.
H
I
want
to
first
of
all
to
commend
those
of
you
who
are
involved
in
this
process,
as
well
as
the
city
clerk's
office,
for
the
work
he
did
on
this
and
for
putting
together
a
document
that
I
believe,
does
an
excellent
job
of
capturing,
not
only
the
broad
themes,
but
a
lot
of
the
nuances
that
take
place
in
the
city
environment.
H
I
said
having
worked
there
for
35
years.
I
have
this
strong
feeling
about
what
takes
place,
and
I
thought
that
your
summary
did
an
excellent
job
of
capturing
number
of
those
issues,
as
well
as
the
strip
of
the
current
system,
and
because
there
are
strengths
of
the
current
system,
but
it
did
a
really
good
job
capturing.
I
think
what
department
heads
actually
feel-
and
I
I
really
am
thankful
that
they
appear
to
be
pretty
forthcoming
with
you
on
this
and
just
in
response
to
the
earlier
comment
from
one
of
the
chairs.
H
They
currently
call
that
committee
now,
so
that
there
was
a
staff
or
several
departments
that
were
responsible
for
putting
it
together
and
when
those
lines
of
authority
are
clear,
you
tend
to
find
that
it
works
better
and
where
there
are
larger
endemic
situations,
where
those
lines
aren't
as
clear
is
where
it's
more
likely
to
fall.
Apart
into
the
the
coalitions
of
whether
it's
elected
officials
or
department
heads
all
having
whether
you
want
to
view
it
as
turf
battles
or
anything
else,
or
just
legitimate
differences
over
the
proper
policy
to
proceed
with.
C
C
Hearing
none
the
only
one
thing
I
would
add
to
this
discussion.
Is
you
know
one
of
the
discussions
was
this
the
enterprise
or
the
system
seems
to
work
well
when
the
personalities
are
aligned
or
when
there
is
some.
You
know
sense,
at
least
in
a
rough
sense
of
agreement
on
the
direction
to
go.
The
problem
is
when
there
is
a
disagreement
between,
for
example,
the
council
or
mayor
or
disagreement
among
various
council
members.
C
You
get
a
situation
where
things
get
blocked
and
and
if
you
can
read
the
report,
I
mean
there's
instances
where
you
know.
If
there
is
conflict,
the
conflict
never
gets
resolved
typically,
and
we
do.
We
have
a
situation
where
the
system
doesn't
work
unless
the
personalities
align,
and
I
think
that's
something
that
we
need
to
think
about
in
terms
of
how
we
put
together
proposals.
You
know
to
create
lines
of
authority
where
we
can
resolve
these
conflicts
one
way
or
the
other,
and
that's
all
we've
got.
C
I
think
at
the
moment
for
the
summary
of
the
feedback
from
the
department
heads
commissioner
perry.
Commissioner,
perry
has
your
hand
up.
B
B
So
one
of
the
things
that
I
was
struck
by,
I
thought
the
report.
The
memo
was
very
good.
It
shows
clearly
a
lot
of
work
was
put
into
it.
So
thank
you.
B
I,
the
2040
plan
is
an
interesting
one
to
me,
because
when
we
say
that
it
works
better
or
government
works
better.
I
am
struck
by
the
fact
that,
for
all
the
people
who
participated
in
from
from
residents
and
constituents,
I
would
say
that
I
don't
know
if
they
thought
that
the
government
was
working
better.
B
I
think
they
would
say
that
there
was
a
large
contingent
of
people
and
from
the
comments
that
were
submitted,
I
would
say
the
vast
majority
of
comments
were
not
supportive
of
the
2040
plan
and
yet
the
government
moved
ahead.
So
I
think
we
need
to
be
careful
about
when
we
say
better
what
better
really
means
whose
perspective
it
is
that
we're
talking
about
better.
So
I
would
just
caution
us
to
be
intentional
about
our
language
there
so
that
that's
just
a
thought
that
I
came
away
from
when
I
read
the
report.
B
F
C
You,
commissioner,
co-chair
garcia.
You
had
your
hand
up.
D
Yes,
thank
you.
Yes,
I
specifically
wanted
to
talk
about
what
commissioner
perry
just
said.
I
completely
agree,
I
don't
notwithstanding
the
outcome
and
then
what
happened
after
the
2040
plan
that
I
don't
dispute
had
its
deep
flaws
and
a
lot
of
unhappiness
from
community
members,
but
I
think
what
the
department
heads
are
speaking
to
is
that
the
council
had
a
clear
role
and
they
had
a
clear
role
regardless
of
the.
D
If
the
outcome,
the
opinion
and
the
perspective
of
the
outcome,
it
was
just
that
role
delineation
and
I
mean-
and
if
I
may,
just
generally
looking
at
some
themes
and
speaking
of
unresolved
conflict,
co-chair
abbott,
it
seems
like
needing
a
mediator
role
or
a
role,
some
kind
of
maybe
administered
the
administrative
role.
D
Perhaps
the
the
city
coordinator,
kind
of
coming
together
to
help
kind
of
broker
or
negotiate
some
discussion
seem
to
be.
There
seemed
to
be
a
vacuum.
D
For
that
specific
role
I
mean
the
city
the
city
coordinator-
would
would
jump
in
as
as
appropriate,
but
that's
not
necessarily
a
role
for
that
position,
and
I
think
what
is
also
very
interesting
is
that
this
council
and
the
mayor
came
in
with
a
values-based
mindset
and
race,
equity
and
community
engagement,
and
there
was
a
lot
of
good
feedback
from
department
heads
about
raising
those
issues,
but
there
seemed
to
be
a
lack
of
through
on
integrating
those
those
values
and
those
issues
into
policy,
and
I
completely
agree
with
commissioners
ginder's
assessments
on
his
message
about
minneapolis
kind
of
being
called
strong
mayor,
strong
council,
because
there
are
there's
already
discussion
about.
D
D
Any
form
of
government
where
one
branch
or
one
area
has
an
imbalance
of
power
does
not
function
well
and
is
not
of
service
for
the
people
in
that
jurisdiction,
and
I
think,
taking
a
look
at
okay.
We
know
the
council
is
really
good
at
constituent
services,
they're
elected
city-wide,
they're,
really
good
at
responding
to
their
constituents
and
bringing
those
issues
forward.
D
We
know
that
the
the
mayor
can
be
really
good
at
setting
overall
state
prior
city
priorities,
as
we
hear
in
the
city
of
the
city
address,
and
this
budget
address,
but
kind
of
getting
those
priorities
to
fruition
and
having
the
city
council
kind
of
identify
what
they
see
from
their
ward
level,
bring
that
up
to
the
level
of
meeting
with
the
mayor's
priorities
and
implementing
some
kind
of
policy
or
some
kind
of.
D
Some
kind
of
procedure,
or
some
kind
of
implementation
is
not
that's
not
seen
very
often
those
two
things,
don't
don't
match
and
they
come
through,
so
they
each
have
a
very,
very
valuable
role
and
can
be
very,
very
good
at
their
roles,
but
defining
why?
Why
and
how
they
come
together.
D
I
think
you
see
that,
where
there's
not
a
clear
sense
of
what
is
our
collective
mission,
how
are
we
going
to
come
together
to
accomplish
it,
and
how
can
we
really
turn
to
the
departments
that
are
specialists
in
their
area
and
ask
get
their
expertise
on
a
specific
issue
or
perspective
perspective
opinion
that
kind
of
meshes
and
aligns
with
other
things
with
everybody
else's
priorities?
I'm
kind
of
looking
at
the
greater
the
greater
good
of
the
city
for
that.
C
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Schwarzkopf
has
his
hand
up
very
patiently
for
a
bit.
G
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
I
read
this
report
and
I
thought
it
was
just
an
outstanding
report
and
I'm
very
pleased
that
you
and
your
committee
did
this
report.
It's
the
kind
of
thing
that
I
have
felt
for
probably
40
years.
G
Maybe
50
years
I
went
to
work
for
the
city
in
1972
as
a
city
clerk,
and
one
of
the
major
things
I
had
to
do
was
to
go
down
to
the
mayor's
office
every
two
weeks
and
help
the
mayor
understand
why
he
should
not
veto
anything
and
and
explain
to
him
the
rationale
behind
what
the
city
council
done,
because
there
was
no
relationship
between
the
mayor
and
the
city
council
and
therefore
that
was
my
assignment
as
a
city
clerk.
To
do
that.
G
G
And
pulling
all
the
different
buildings
together
and
anyway,
he
was
the
first
one
to
come
along
and
do
that
job,
and
so
it's
just
kind
of
developed
since
that
time.
The
other
interesting
thing
is
that
when
I
became
city
clerk,
I
asked
the
city
council.
What
is
my
job
description?
What
do
you
want
me
to
do
and
he
had
no
idea
so
at
that
point
I
then
read:
the
charter
figured
out
what
my
job
was
from
the
charter
and
tried
to
carry
out
my
job
based
upon
what
the
charter
said.
C
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Metke
has
her
hand
up
and
has
been
patient.
E
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
co-chair
abbott.
I
just
have
kind
of
a
comment,
and
maybe
lyle
just
answered
it,
so
it
might
be
irrelevant,
but
I'm
wondering
if,
when
you
are
going
to
interview
past
electeds
and
staff,
if
you
were
going
to
hand
them
this
document
to
read
it'd
be
interesting
to
me
to
hear
their
perspectives
on
it
and
if
it
is
something
that
happened
through
their
time
in
council,
if
this
is
a
moment
in
time
and
if
they
had
had
examples
on
how
they
worked
through
things,
so
I
kept
thinking
of
it.
E
I
have
been
working
in
neighborhoods
for
30
years,
so
I've
I've
lived
through
lots
of
police
chiefs
and
lots
of
mayors
and
lots
of
city
council
members,
and
it's,
I
think,
the
point
in
the
document
about
rather
than
having
defining
roles
and
responsibilities
and
a
lot
of
it
having
to
do
with
personalities
or
whatever
the
quote
was
that
you
said
I,
you
know
I've
seen
that
a
lot
and
it
really
depends
on
leadership
and
how
somebody
lays
out
those
roles
and
to
have
it
more
clear,
probably
would
be
very
helpful,
but
I'd
be
interested
in
what
former
staff
and
electeds
had
said.
C
Yeah,
we
are
in
the
process
of
interviewing
some
former
electeds
this
week
as
a
matter
of
fact,
and
we,
I
think,
we'll
be
putting
together.
A
report
of
those
interviews
should
be
available
for
our
next
meeting
in
january
of
the
next
work
group
meeting.
So
we'll
we'll
definitely
take
that
question
under
advisement
and
see
what
we
can
do
in
terms
of
getting
you
some
responses.
There.
D
I
was
gonna
just
add
that
one
observation
is
that
it's
clear
that
the
city
structure
is
very
relationship
based
and
relationship,
oriented
and
this
time
of
covid
does
not
do
any
favors
to
build
relationships
when
people
are
not
physically
in
the
same
space,
then
getting
together
and
passing
one
another
in
the
hallways,
etc
so
it'll
be,
it
would
be
a
good.
I
agree,
commissioner,
michigan,
that
it
would
be
a
good
thing
to
bring
up.
G
I
remember
that
I
would
at
4
30
in
the
afternoon
everything
quieted
down
for
city
council
members,
so
at
4
30,
I
go
into
the
council
chamber
offices
and
I
go
from
office
to
office
visiting
with
all
13
council
members
making
sure
that
things
are
okay
that
day
and
that
things
are
working
out
and
talking
to
them
about
whatever
they
might
be
interested
in
talking
about,
and
so
you,
as
a
city
coordinator,
I
had
to
spend
that
time
doing
that
in
order
to
make
sure
that
things
kept
going
well
in
the
city,
and
so
we
we
did
that
for
an
hour
and
a
half,
and
it
was
one
of
the
one
of
the
city
attorneys.
G
Now,
when
the
council
was
fighting
among
themselves
as
it
seemed
to
be
during
the
day,
I
would
have
to
watch
to
see
who
saw
me
go
into
one
council
member's
office.
So
after
I
finished,
then
I
would
go
back
to
the
council
member
who
saw
me
going
in
office
and
kind
of
talk
to
them
and
explain
to
them
what
I
said
to
the
other
council
member.
I
mean
that's
the
way
we
lived
in
city
hall
in
order
to
run
the
city
government.
D
C
C
Okay
thanks
that
was,
that
was
a
good
discussion
and
let's
move
on
to
item
number
five,
which
is
the
next
steps
and
recommendations.
I'll
just
say
we
are
attentively
scheduled
for
our
next
workgroup
meeting.
I
believe
wednesday
january
6th,
and
at
that
point
we
should
have
a
report.
I
think
on
some
of
the
interviews
we're
doing
with
former
electeds.
C
I
also
think
at
that
point
we
might
have
a
presentation
from
I
don't
know.
I
don't
know
if
we'll
actually
have
them
available
on
january
6,
but
that's
when
we
should
we're
shooting
for
the
the
the
conversation
with
the
other
first-class
cities,
duluth
rochester
and
st
paul
on
the
sixth
and
obviously
we're
open
to
suggestions.
If
anybody
has
any
comments
or
suggestions
on
our
next
steps
or
any
recommendations,
please
raise
your
hand
and
let
us
know.
D
Yes,
having
having
a
2021
calendar
is
that
need
is
eminence
if
I
can
throw
up
there
throw
up
a
suggestion
for
next
steps.
D
It's
interesting,
as
we
had
our
first
meeting
with
that
presentation,
but
from
jay
kadrowski
and
him
talking
about
the
evolution
of
the
charter
and
past
successful
and
unsuccessful
attempts
at
changing
the
charter
and
kind
of
looking
at
what
was
going
on
in
minneapolis.
What
was
the
sentiment,
then?
Why
was
were
efforts
successful
or
not,
successful
and
looking
at
some
of
those
threads
or
themes
that
seem
to
be.
D
Be
kind
of
prevalent
even
now,
and
that
may
have
bopped
their
heads
up
and
down
in
the
different
cities
we've
looked
at
and
then
we'll
we'll
speak
to
more
cities
next
time.
But
it's
interesting
to
s.
It
would
be
interesting
to
see
you
know
throughout
the
history
of
the
city
of
minneapolis.
D
How
has
the
issue
been
been
defined
I
mean
is:
are
charter
changes
more
welcome
when
people
agree
and
coalesce
that
there's
an
issue
to
be
dealt
with
or
are
charter
some
charter
changes
seen
as
perhaps
a
power
grab
or
wanting
to
keep
some
a
branch
from
power,
and
then
I
think
it
would
be
interesting
too
to
for
us
to
have
a
future
conversation
well
in
the
near
future
about
items
in
issues
that
we
all
come
together
on.
Are
there
things
that
we
come
have
consensus
on?
D
G
I
was
just
going
to
say
it
might
be
worthwhile
to
talk
to
some
of
the
people
who
worked
in
the
mayor's
office
over
the
last
many
years
and
get
a
feel
for
what
how
they
think
things
have
played
out
and
what's
been
going
on.
There
too
yeah,
but
thanks.
F
C
You
any
other
any
other
discussion
chair
clegg.
Do
you
have
anything
to
add.
F
C
B
Yes,
one
of
the
things
when
we're
talking
to
other
municipalities,
I
think
we
ought
to
focus
in
on,
is
how
they
are
reacting
to
something
I
saw
in
the
director
heads
memo,
which
is
the
role
of
advocacy
groups
and
whether
just
how
they're
dealing
with
that
with
respect
to
the
general
population,
because
what
I
read
in
the
memo
was
that
directors
were
feeling
pressure,
undue
pressure
coming
in
from
advocacy
groups
and
not
necessarily
getting
the
the
average
citizens
input
and
I'd
like
to
know
if
these
other
municipalities
are
seeing
the
same
thing
or
not
seeing
the
same
thing.
B
So
maybe
I
should
ask:
are
we
asking
the
same
questions
that
we
asked
it's
sort
of
in
line
with
what
we
asked
department
heads
or
are
we
doing
something
slightly
different
in
the
questions?
Because,
if
we're
doing
the
same
thing,
then
you
that
the
the
question
is
answered
or
should
be
answered
by
the
conversations
with
them.
If
it's
not,
then
I
would
say
I'd
like
to
know
what
they're
doing
thanks.
C
Yeah,
no,
the
questions
we're
asking
the
former
electeds
are,
I
would
say,
almost
identical
to
the
question.
We
asked
the
department
heads
and
it'll
be
interesting
to
see,
I
think,
to
explore
that
with
the
other
first
class
cities
come
chair,
clegg.
F
The
questions
we
ask
that
the
officials
of
the
other
cities
of
the
first
class
will
be
different
because
they
don't
have
the
intimate
working
knowledge
of
the
effectiveness
of
the
minneapolis
system.
So
those
questions
might
not
be
relevant.
Well,
we'll
do
more
of
an
inquiry
as
to
how
their
own
systems
work
and
what
the
differences
are
between
their
systems
and
the
minneapolis
system.
F
But
I
imagine
we'll
treat
it
the
same
way
and
that
we
would
develop
questions
beforehand
and
circulate
it
to
the
work
group
to
get
input
and
come
up
with
a
final
set
of
questions.
F
But
with
the
same
informality
that
we've
had
before,
where
once
a
question
is
answered,
questions
of
the
work
group
and
the
charter
commission
would
could
ask
additional
questions
or
ask
them
to
elaborate
on
certain
topics.
B
So
I
would
just
follow
up
my
my
suggestion
would
be
to
for
the
the
interviewers
to
consider
asking
that
question
about
advocacy
groups
and
how
they
handle
that
versus
maybe
how
the
city
of
minneapolis
is
handling
it.
C
Okay,
we
will
look
at
that
when
we
put
together
the
questions.
Do
we
have
any
other
questions
or
comments
on
on
agenda
item
5
our
next
steps
and
recommendations.
C
Okay,
I
think
that
completes
our
agenda.
Then
I
think
unless
there's
any
comments
or
questions,
I
think
we
should
go
ahead
and
and
adjourn
any
objection.
Oh
commissioner,
are
you
waving
goodbye
commissioner
mckee,
or
I
can't
hear
you.