►
From YouTube: December 14, 2021 Police Conduct Oversight Commission
Description
Additional information at
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov
A
C
Good
evening
my
name
is
abigail.
Sarah,
I
am
the
chair
of
the
police,
conduct
oversight,
commission
and
I'm
going
to
call
this
meeting
for
december
14
2021
to
order,
as
we
begin,
I
will
note
for
the
record
that
this
meeting
has
remote
participation
by
members
of
the
city,
council
and
city
staff
as
authorized
under
minnesota
statutes,
section
13d
.021
due
to
declared
public
health
emergency.
C
B
C
Let
the
record
reflect
that
we
have
quorum
next,
we'll
proceed
to
our
agenda,
a
copy
of
which
is
oops.
Excuse
me:
next,
we
will
move
to
adoption
of
the
agenda
and
acceptance
of
the
minutes.
Does
anyone
move
to
adopt
the
agenda
and
accept
the
minutes.
D
For
a
second,
the
motion
chair,
sarah,
I
was
going
to
ask
if
I
could
make
an
addition
or
if
we
can
wait
till
later
meeting
about
engage
the
question
about
engaging
in
mjf
volunteer,
I'm
also
okay,
waiting
until
january.
If
you
thought
it
was
more
appropriate
for
another
meeting.
C
Terrific
all
right
may
will
the
clerk.
Please
call
roll.
A
C
C
E
Well,
thank
you,
chair
sarah,
for
for
allowing
me
to
be
on
the
agenda
this
evening.
As
has
been
said,
I
am
the
current
interim
director
for
the
department
of
civil
rights,
and
so
I
have
been
in
this
position
for
about
four
and
a
half
weeks
now
and
I
want
to
say,
your
chair
has
been
very
gracious
and
welcoming
to
me
to
my
new
role.
So
I
certainly
appreciate
that,
prior
to
being
in
this
role,
I
actually
did
work
with
the
city
in
an
enterprise
wide
role.
E
As
the
outreach
coordinator
and
director
for
the
2020
census
initiative
for
the
city
of
minneapolis
and
so
yay.
For
us
we
did
an
excellent
job.
We
got
people
counted,
we
saved
to
help
save
that
congressional
seat,
so
good
work,
good
work,
so
I've
been
able
to
work
in
with
the
majority
of
the
departments
in
the
city,
and
I've
also
done
a
lot
of
work
within
the
community
as
well.
So
I'm
excited,
as
I
mentioned,
to
your
chair,
about
working
with
you
on
the
these
important
issues
that
are
before
us
as
a
community.
E
C
C
F
Yeah,
I
do
have
some
things
to
to
share,
so
thank
you
guys
for
having
me.
I
appreciate
it
very
much
I'll,
take
a
few
minutes
and
kind
of
update
the
group
on
some
ways
that
I
think
hhs
and
hen
up
and
ems
interact
with
our
public
safety
partners
and
how
that
may
have
changed
over
the
last
even
few
years.
F
We
have
many
public
safety
partners,
as
you
guys
know,
that
includes
a
number
of
law
enforcement
agencies,
and
I
know
you
guys
are
specifically
interested
in
mpd,
so
we
interface
with
mpd
in
the
field,
while
caring
for
our
patients-
and
we
also
through
the
education
that
chair
sarah
mentioned
so
to
start.
I
know
an
important
piece
to
discuss.
F
Is
the
term
excited
delirium
syndrome,
and
I
know
this
is
a
term
as
you
guys
have
discussed,
that
terminology
is
not
recognized
as
a
diagnosis
by
the
ama
apa
or
who
it
has
become
increasingly
clear.
That
excited
delirium
syndrome
has
become
associated
with
a
strong
bias
and
to
many
groups
it
is
a
very
triggering
term.
F
Therefore,
hhs
and
hennepin
ems
have
committed
to
no
longer
use
this
terminology
in
our
practice
or
in
our
education,
and
I
don't
know
if
this
has
come
up
in
other
discussions,
but
commissioner
sylvester
may
have
shared
some
information
about
an
email
that
we
sent
out
to
everybody,
explaining
that
that
it
is
not
a
helpful
term
anymore.
It
seems
to
cause,
you
know,
cause
issues,
and
so
for
that
reason
we
are
not
using
that
term
anymore.
F
F
F
We've
seen
other
terms
in
medicine
that
have
been
attributed
to,
for
example,
there's
one
particular
kind
of
pulmonary
disease
that
is
associated
with
a
former
nazi
physician
that
and
that
term
has
been
changed
to
be
more
descriptive
and
that's
that's
kind
of
our
push
here
is
to
to
be
more
descriptive
in
our
terminology
that
we
use
all.
That
said,
the
terminology
is
important
and
words
matter.
F
We
cannot
deny
the
physiology
of
a
person
who's
exerting
themselves,
we'll
create
a
metabolic
acidosis,
and
so
this
is
where
I
think
the
the
medical
pieces
is
quite
important,
and
this
is
why
you
know
sprinters
will
measure
their
lactate
on
the
side
of
the
track
to
see
how
hard
they're
exerting
themselves
with
the
finger
stick,
and
so
we
also
have
to
recognize
that,
due
to
a
number
of
things
such
as
medical
emergencies,
substance
use
or
psychiatric
emergencies,
people
may
lose
that
intrinsic
mechanism
excuse
me
mechanism
to
force
their
body
to
rest,
and
I
think
you
know
if
I
were
to
go
outside
right
now
and
just
sprint
as
hard
as
I
could.
F
Eventually,
I'm
gonna
stop,
and
if
someone
loses
that
intrinsic
mechanism,
it
can
be
quite
dangerous.
Can
you
guys
hear
me?
Okay,
I
just
got
a
bad
network
quality
yeah,
okay,
so
people
who
are
experiencing
experiencing
a
metabolic
acidosis,
whether
it's
from
exertion
or
diabetic,
ketoacidosis,
rely
very
heavily
on
that
respiratory
compensation,
which
is
breathing
very,
very
heavily
so
that
they
can
blow
off
their
co2
and
maintain
their
ph
within
a
physiologic
range.
F
And
so
the
consequence
of
inadequate,
respirations
or
inadequate
compensation
is
that
they
will
get
increasingly
acidotic
and
ultimately,
the
risk
is
is
death
there
and
so
most
commonly.
That
is
shown
as
a
pea,
arrest
or
pulseless
electrical
activity,
and
the
unfortunate
piece
about
that
is
when
someone
is
that
sick
from
acidosis
it
is
often
very
difficult,
if
not
impossible,
to
successfully
resuscitate
them
back,
and
so
we
teach
and
it's
very
important
for
our
law
enforcement
partners
to
understand
that
someone
who's
experiencing
a
crisis
this
way
without
any
other
mentions.
F
If
the
person
can't
be
de-escalated
with
verbal
means
or
or
is,
you
know,
forced
to
engage
in
a
physical
interaction
with
someone
and-
and
that
may
be-
and
we
see
this
from
time
to
time
where
people
are
running
into
traffic
and
so
the
we
can't
not
restrain
someone
who's
running
into
traffic,
because
that
would
put
the
public
and
them
at
further
danger.
But
we
can't
just
restrain
them
either.
F
It
has
to
be
a
coordinated
effort
with
law
enforcement
and
with
healthcare
professionals,
and
so
I
can
tell
you
guys
recently
I
looked
on
the
naemsp
website,
which
is
the
national
association
of
ems
physician
website
and
right
at
the
top.
There's
a
piece
about
ems
and
law
enforcement,
and-
and
it's
short
so
I'll,
read
it
to
you.
It
says
that
ems
and
law
enforcement
officers
must
rely
on
distinct,
yet
complementary
skill
sets
in
such
critical
and
rapidly
changing
situations.
F
I
know
that
chair
sarah
and
I
have
spoken
about
some
of
the
training
materials
you
guys
have
seen
in
the
past,
and
we
really
want
to
ensure
very
accurate
and
objective
terminology
and
so
getting
rid
of
less
descriptive
terms
and
using
things
like
opioid
use,
disorder,
alcohol
use
disorder.
F
I
think
that
is
a
more
objective
way,
so
that
we
can
work
to
decrease
those
preconceived
notions
that
may
come
with
when
people
are
diagnosed
or
have
those
issues,
and
so
we
really
want
to
ensure
that
the
medical
aspects
are
being
emphasized,
because
that
that
is
what
our
focus
is.
This
is
a
significant
shift.
I
think,
when
a
law
enforcement
officer
approaches
the
situation
and
they
are
encountering
an
individual
who
is
in
a
medical
emergency
and
I
think,
there's
a
real,
tangible
shift.
F
So
to
that
end,
we
are
committed
to
strengthening
those
relationships
so
that
we
can
better
serve
our
community
and
those
residents
in
that
community
and
then
the
last
piece
I
want
to
say
and
I'll
open
up
to
questions
and
discussion
is
that
we
are
also
committed
to
increase
feedback
from
the
community
as
an
example,
within
this
last
year,
hhs
and
hennepin
ems
started
our
ems
advisory
group,
so
that
we
can
have
better
dialogue
with
our
community
members
and
community
leaders,
and
that's
something
that's
been
a
great
addition,
so
that
we
can
discuss
better
understanding
of
what
our
our
communities
that
we
serve,
see,
experience
and
and
and
feel,
and
so
also
to
that
you
know,
I
think
it's.
F
It's
really
been
kind
of
a
theme
of
the
work
we've
done
over
the
last
year
within
you
know:
hennepin
ems
leadership
and
with
hhs
to
try
and
increase
that
dialogue
and
that
communication
between
the
community
that
we
serve
and
and
our
ems
group,
which
is
kind
of
squarely
in
the
middle
of
healthcare,
public
health
and
public
safety,
and
we
kind
of
have
to
operate
in
all
those
worlds.
F
So
you
know
with
that.
It's
also
been
helpful
to
engage
in
with
our
elected
officials
with
community
leaders
so
that
they
can
better
understand
the
work
that
we're
doing
the
challenges
being
faced
in
those
those
arenas
as
well.
So
we've
had
a
number
of
elected
officials
out.
We
recently
had
vice
chair
sparks
out,
and
so
that's
I
think
it's
been
a
really
really
nice
way
to
increase
some
of
that
dialogue
so
that
we
can
have
really
more
robust
discussions
and
have
a
better
understanding.
C
C
Commissioners,
either
physically
raise
your
hand
or
do
the
thing,
and
let
me
know
if
you'd
like
to
be
recognized.
D
Any
questions
yeah,
thank
you,
chair
sarah.
I
just
I
apologize
if
this
was
already
in
the
presentation
somewhere,
but
I
was
just
wondering:
have
you
seen
a
market
increase
in
ems
services
being
present
at
or
being
called
after
doing,
presentations?
Have
you
seen
a
link
between
you
know
your
basically
the
ability
to
have
medical
intervention
when
it's
appropriate
thanks
to
these
presentations?
How
has
that
been
going.
F
Yeah,
I
will
admit
I
have
not
looked
at
data.
I
can
tell
you
all
calls
have
gone
up
over
the
last
few
years.
Three
years
ago
we
were
going
on
about
74
000
calls
a
year
last
year
was
about
86
and
this
year
we're
on
pace
to
exceed
94.,
and
so
it's
I
think
it
would
be
difficult
to
say,
and
I
and
I
don't
want
to
lie
to
you.
F
So
I
don't
know
offhand
if
we've
seen
proportional
increases,
I
can
tell
you,
we've
seen
proportional
increases
in
not
so
much
shootings
and
stabbings,
which
I
would
have
expected,
but
we
have
seen
year
over
year.
The
last
few
years
calls
that
the
primary
issue
seems
to
be
alcohol
and
substance
related
has
been
about
13
and
then
this
year
it
jumped
to
about
24..
A
Hello
first
is:
I
just
wanted
to
say
that,
as
dr
simpson
mentioned,
he
I
did
the
ems
ride
along
a
couple
weeks
ago,
and
dr
simpson
was
gracious
enough
to
be
with
me
all
night
and
kind
of
show
me
how
things
are
done.
So
thanks
again,
dr
simpson,
for
your
assistance
with
that
and
for
spending
all
that
time
with
me.
I'm
sure
it
wasn't
easy.
A
But
I
do
want
to
say
it
was.
It
was
a.
It
was
a
busy
night
when
I
went
out
for
the
ride-along,
and
I
I
mean
I,
I
really
learned
a
lot.
I
have
a
profoundly
new
and
different
understanding
of
how
ems
works
in
minneapolis
and
how
the
different
units
coordinate
together,
fire,
medical
and
police,
profoundly
new
and
different,
and
I
also
have
a
profoundly
new
and
different
respect
for
the
the
hard
work
involved
and
the
split
decisions
and
everything
else
involved.
A
I
didn't
fully
appreciate
it
until
I
saw
it
up
close
and
personal
and
people
saving
lives
right
in
front
of
me.
It
was
a
very,
very
eye-opening
experience,
and
I
would
really
encourage
my
fellow
commissioners
to
to
take
advantage
of
the
the
program
that
hcmc
is
offering
and
do
a
ride
along
as
well.
If
you,
if
you
can
swing
it,
it
was
extremely
educational.
C
Thank
you.
Well,
I'm
gonna
recognize
myself
chair
sarah.
I
just
like
to
offer
some
background
about
why
I
put
it
on
the
agenda
and
invited
dr
simpson
to
be
here.
C
My
understanding
is
that
hcmc
has
been
sort
of
the
partner
for
medical
related
advice
for
quite
some
time,
but
the
relationship
has
you
know,
sort
of
changed
over
time
and
at
one
point
they
were
very
engaged
in
tons
of
trainings
and
it
sort
of
went
down,
and
I
think
I
think
at
this
point
it's
like
a
very
it's
much
less
interaction
than
it
used
to
be,
and
I
think
it's
a
good
opportunity,
probably
the
perfect
moment
in
time
to
go
back
to
that
very
strong
relationship
and
have
a
greater
presence
between
the
two
agencies,
and
so
I'm
grateful
that
htmc
has
opened
their
doors
and
invited
me
to
con.
C
C
C
Will
there
be
substantive,
substantive
changes
to
the
training
and
what
you're
looking
at
as
well,
because
I
think
if
you
look
at
the
training
and
you
took
out
the
term
excited
delirium
and
you
inserted
metabolic
acidosis,
if
that's
the
term,
I'm
understanding
you
know,
even
if
you
put
in
a
more
descriptive
term,
that
is
more
medically
accurate,
I
I
think
there
were
still
some
substantive
problems,
which
is
sometimes
just
an
issue
of
translation,
of
taking
medical
information
and
giving
it
to
non-medical
professionals,
and
I
can
attest
to
that
because
I'm
reading
this
as
a
non-medical
professional.
C
F
Yeah,
I
can
speak
to
that
a
little
bit,
so
it
is
so.
I
think
to
your
point.
The
terminology
is
important,
that
we
get
away
from
that
and
just
to
acknowledge
that
that
words
do
matter
quite
a
great
deal.
That
said,
I
I
think
what
excited
delirium
has
become.
It
seems,
and
you
guys
have
a
different
perspective
and
maybe
can
correct
me
or
disagree
with
me.
It
seems
to
be
this
catch-all
where
you
know
when
we,
when
we
originally
intended
for
it
to
be
used
for
a
medical
emergency.
It
was.
F
This
is
a
medical
emergency.
Get
you
know,
ems
on
the
way
as
soon
as
possible,
it
seems
to
have
become
something
very
different
and
it
seems
to
have
been
associated
with
bias
and
dehumanization,
and
that
is
not
what
we
want
at
all.
I
think
it's
it's
deeper
than
just
changing
the
terminology,
but
it
is.
It
is
important
that
we
don't
completely
separate.
F
You
know
someone
who
is
encountered
by
law
enforcement
that
may
be
having
a
crisis,
and
I
think
I
may
have
shared
with
with
one
or
two
of
you
that
you
know
one
of
the
trainings
that
we
do
for
other
law
enforcement
agencies
with
you
know,
scenario-based
training
is
they
encounter
somebody
who's?
F
You
know
the
call
is
there's
somebody
going
through
cars
trying
to
break
into
cars
and
what
the
scenario
actually
is
is
somebody
who's
having
a
diabetic,
emergency
and
hypoglycemic
and
and
therefore
confused,
and
so
I
think,
getting
away
from
the
terminology
excited
delirium
and
having
a
more
a
more
sophisticated
discussion
about
identifying
a
medical
emergency
and
then
not
just
lumping
everybody
into
this.
You
know
worst
case
scenario
but
trying
to
have
different
degrees
of
you
know.
F
There
are
some
people
that,
due
to
a
number
of
different
crises
that
are
honestly
impossible
to
differentiate
right
up
front,
maybe
you
know
in
a
place
where
they're
hard
to
de-escalate
verbally
they're
they're
impossible
to
de-escalate
verbally.
They
may
be
in
a
place
where
they
they
do
need
that
acute
medical
intervention,
but
you
know
how
do
we
communicate
that
someone's
having
a
medical
emergency
without
saying
you
know,
there's
this
catch-all
criteria
or
this
catch-all
term,
but
we
just
really
need
to
be
more.
I
think
thoughtful
about
how
we
engage.
F
You
know
the
two
different
groups,
which
is,
I
think,
it's
just
it's
a
very
it's
a
different
change
in
it's
a
shift
in
how
we
approach
the
problem
instead
of
just
the
shift
in
the
terminology,
if
that
makes
sense,.
C
It
does
thank
you,
and
you
know
you
and
I
have
discussed
how
these
changes
won't
take
place
overnight,
and
so
it's
going
to
be
important
for
all
of
us
to
continue
to
work
together,
and
you
know
maybe
that
maybe
the
next
training
we
present.
Even
that
won't
be
perfect,
and
even
that
will
need
to
be
amended.
You
know,
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
process,
and
so
I'm
glad
we're
having
this
conversation.
C
We
do
have
an
opportunity
here,
a
couple
of
opportunities
and
I'd
just
like
to
share
that.
The
commander
of
training
commander,
darcy
horn
has
met
with
me
and
the
director
of
medical.
I
think
it's
called
medical
related
training
within
the
mpd
officer.
Nicole
mckenzie,
has
also
met
with
me,
and
the
new
medical
support
division
is
brand
new
in
the
fall
of
2020..
It
didn't
exist
before
then.
I
think
that
is
a
terrific
addition.
I
think
that's
really
going
to
improve
training
moving
forward.
C
I
think
it
already
has,
for
example,
for
the
first
time
now
there
is
a
standalone
training,
specifically
on
positional
asphyxiation
and
what
to
do,
which
is
essentially
just
roll
the
person
over.
I
mean
it's
like
a
three-minute
video,
but
I
think
it's
you
know
informative
and
important
to
call
that
out.
So
I
think
we
have
an
opportunity
and
a
vehicle
in
place
to
increase
these
trainings
and
make
them
better
and
tailor
them
to
the
law
enforcement
officer
who's,
not
the
ems
person.
C
G
Yeah,
thank
you
so
much
full
disclosure
for
the
record.
Dr
simpson
is
my
medical
director
at
head
of
nemas,
I
to
commissioner
mcguire's
point
or
question
earlier
anecdotally.
I
would
say
that
I
have
seen
professionally
a
significant
increase
in
law
enforcement
in
minneapolis
call
for
ems,
essentially,
let's
say
just
in
case
right,
just
just
a
just
to
cover
themselves
just
to
put
in
their
report
whatever
you
know,
ems
arrived
just
to
get
on
that
body.
Camera
the
paramedics
arrived
and
paramedics
did
an
assessment.
G
That's
now
recorded
on
a
body
camera
for
everybody
to
see
which
is
incredibly
valuable,
so
that
anecdotally,
I
can
say
that
that
that
shift
is
probably
happening
and
the
key
thing
that
I
want
to
emphasize
that
I'm
really
excited
that
dr
simpson
talked
about
tonight
is
just
simply
like
that
idea
of
call
early
and
often
right,
like
putting
in
people's
heads
to
always
call
us
early,
get
us
involved
early
even
before
you
arrive
on
the
scene.
If
the
notes
that
you're
getting
in
this
call
seem
a
little
fishy
to
you.
G
Maybe
this
is
something
that
you've
seen
before.
Maybe
you
know
this
person,
maybe
this
is
something
that
just
doesn't
sit
right
with
you.
Maybe
this
is
medical.
Let's
just
get
the
paramedics
enroute
early,
that's
a
cultural
shift!
That's
a
fundamental
cultural
shift
in
the
way
people
have
done
their
jobs
in
some
cases
for
20
years,
and
you
know
that
that
does
take
time
and
I'm
you
know
putting
my
professional
hat
back
on.
G
I'm
really
excited
to
be
a
part
of
an
organization-
that's,
I
think,
maybe
a
little
unwillingly
after
the
murder
of
george
floyd
being
thrust
into
a
national
position
to
be
a
leader
in
this
space
right,
but
you
know
we're
blessed
at
hcmc
and
head
up
and
ems
to
be
leaders
in
a
lot
of
different
spaces,
and
so
this
is
a
space
that
we
can
be
a
leader
in
nationally
is
helping
to
shift
this
understanding,
and
I'm
I'm
as
a
citizen
of
minneapolis
as
a
commissioner
and
as
a
professional,
I'm
I'm
really
excited
to
be
really
kind
of
at
the
center
of
that
shift.
F
F
That
said
to
to
commissioner
sylvester's
point,
I
think
it
has
given
us
untold
opportunities
to
to
really
lead
the
way,
even
though
we
didn't
expect
it,
and
it
is,
you
know
the
whole
the
whole
last
year
and
a
half
has
been,
I
think,
fairly
painful
for
all
of
us,
but
I
think
it
is.
It
is
one
that
we
can
grow
from
and
if
we
use
this
time
in
a
productive
way,
I
think
we
can
really
become
better
because
of
it.
C
Thank
you.
I
agree,
and
I
would
like
the
public
to
have
a
chance
to
ask
dr
simpson
any
questions.
I'm
going
to
open
it
up
for
public
comment.
Please
press
star
6
to
unmute
yourself,
star
6..
If
you
have
any
comments
or
questions
for
our
speaker,
he
does
have
a
time
limit
this
evening
and
he
will
need
to
leave.
H
Hello,
this
is
dave
thicking,
and
I
appreciate
your
opening
this
up,
and
this
is
a
very
important
conversation.
H
I'm
just
curious
and
wondering
with
the
concerns
there's
been
that
excited
delirium
is
something
that
is
a
somewhat
more
recent.
You
know,
diagnosis
or
term
and
has
seemed
to
be
correspond
quite
closely
to
engagement
with
law
enforcement
and,
in
particular,
a
very
close
correlation
between
the
use
of
tasers
and
the
diagnosis
of
excited
delirium
and,
and
particularly,
even
more
so
when
that
led
to
death.
So
I'm
wondering
with
the
new
terminology
or
the
new
medical
understanding
or
whatever
that
may
be
brought
to
this
here.
H
F
F
It
has
been
hemorrhage
control
and
then
it
has
included
agitation
which
has
come
to
mean
largely
excited
delirium,
and
I
think
it's
just
not.
Quite
that
simple.
I
think
agitation
as
a
large
term
is
something
that
is
is
a
is
a
more
complex
piece
than
just
you
know
is:
does
the
person
need
cpr
or
not?
F
That's,
I
think
easier
for
people
to
understand.
Is
a
person
need
narcan
or
not?
Does
a
person
need
a
tourniquet
or
not?
Those
things
are
clear,
but
I
think
agitation.
The
the
impetus
needs
to
be
ems
needs
to
be
here,
because
something
doesn't
feel
right.
Something
doesn't
fit
with
what
we
expect,
how
we
expect
a
person
to
behave.
B
F
So
can't
speak
to
the
taser
piece,
but
I
think
that's
what
we
hope
to
gain
with
the
revamp
of
education
with
the
updating
is
to
try
and
and
make
it
one
it's
not
that
simple.
It's
just
exciting,
delirious
or
not,
but
also
it's
it's.
We
need
ems
there
early
and
yeah.
I
can't
really
touch
the
chaser
piece,
because
I
don't.
I
don't
know
that.
C
All
right,
if
anyone
else
from
the
public
would
like
to
comment,
please
press
star
six
to
unmute
yourself.
I
This
is
james
van
sloan.
Thank
you
for
commissioner.
Sarah.
My
question
is
kind
of
piggyback
on
the
previous
question
and
that's
regarding
data.
Is
the
ems
documenting
all
uses
of
medication
on
these
calls,
and
or
is
the
mpd
also
documenting
the
the
use
of
the
medication
when
that
what
it
is
occurred
so
that
we
can
at
least
keep
track
of
how
often
it's
happening
at
the
end,
then
we
could
see
if
there
is
a
correlation
between
this
and
use
of
tasers
or
other
use
of
force.
F
I
think
in
the
past,
in
the
general
public
is
that
you
know
we,
we
don't
administer
medications
for
any
law
enforcement
purposes.
We
administer
medications
when
people
have
medical
emergencies,
and
sometimes
agitation
can
be
one
of
those
medical
emergencies,
and
so
there
is
never
a
time
that
I'm
aware
of
where
any
ems,
specifically
our
ems,
has
administered
medications
and
someone
has
gone
anywhere
other
than
the
hospital
such
as
they
don't
go
to
jail
after
this
they.
This
is
not
a
tool
of
law
enforcement.
F
C
D
So,
if
we're
perhaps
any
times
that
ems
is
called
out
to
a
scene
where
the
police
are,
and
maybe
they're
taking
someone
with
them
and
something
like
ketamine
or
something
is
administered
like
how
often
that
happens,
something
like
that,
because
on
an
individual
basis,
I
would
imagine
we
would
not
have
access
to
those
records.
D
F
Yeah,
I
I
can
tell
you
guys
that,
from
a
data
standpoint,
the
healthcare
records
that
the
medics
use
is
is
very
easy
for
me
to
gather
data
and
collect
data
on
the
dispatch
records.
The
dispatch
information
which
is
in
our
our
cad
system,
our
computer,
aided
dispatch.
It's
a
separate
system
and
often
calls
where
law
enforcement,
fire
and
ems
go
on
are
assigned
different,
unique
identifiers,
even
though
it
may
be
the
same
call,
and
so
it
is
challenging
to
try
and
link
up
all
those
calls,
as
well
as
with
aggregate
data
from
the
medical
record.
C
C
So
I
would
like
to
recognize
myself
and
say
that
one
thing
we
can
do
as
a
commission
tonight,
commissioners
and
I'd
like
your
input
on
this-
is
discuss
whether
we'd
like
to
recommend,
make
a
recommendation
to
the
the
mayor
and
the
police
department
to
increase
their
medical
related
training,
and
I
think
that
would
require
an
increase
in
or
expansion
of,
the
existing
contract
with
hcmc,
and
perhaps
if
that
is
something
we
requested.
C
Perhaps
you
know
request
that
there
would
be
some
sort
of
review
process
with
that
either
with
you
know,
the
pcoc
would
be
part
of
these
conversations
or
a
health
equity
group
would
be
part
of
the
conversations
or
you
know,
just
kind
of
making
sure
that
all
the
right
people
are
at
the
table
to
do
that.
So
I'd
like
to
open
the
floor
to
the
commission
and
see
how
folks
feel
about
that
or
or
how
they
think
we
should
move
forward.
C
If
there's
no
commissioner
vice
chair
spark
excuse
me.
A
G
I
mean
I'll
say:
training
is
always
in
in
any
public
safety
space
police,
fire
ems
training
is
always
a
good
thing
right,
like
training
is
always
a
good
thing
period
right
like
any
any
additional
training.
I
think
we
have
to
keep
in
mind
any
recommendation
that
we
make
within
this
space
that
these
guys
are
down,
like
250
300
officers,
right
from
where
they
want
to
be,
and
so
the
time
that
they
would
have
to
maybe
dedicate
to
additional
training.
They
might
come
back
to
us
and
say
we
would
love
to
do
that.
G
We
would
love
to
do
one
day
a
week
on
medical
training,
but
we
just
don't
have
the
we
don't
have
the
time
to
pull
officers
off
the
street
in
order
to
go.
Do
this
training,
I'm
just
saying
like
that
that
that
may
come
up,
and
I.
G
Of
of
kind
of
reorientating
people
towards
thinking
medical
versus
thinking
enforcement
right
any
opportunity
that
we
can
do
that
within
these
with
these
professionals
is
a
really
good
idea
right,
like
any
time
that
we
can
use
their
work
time
to
help
reorientate
them
towards
a
service
model
versus,
in
some
cases,
that
enforcement
model.
G
And
it's
it's
honestly.
It's
reflected
in
a
lot
of
suburban
police
departments
that
I
work
with
minnetonka
eden,
prairie
hopkins,
richfield,
saint
anthony,
whatever
a
lot
of
these
departments
justify
a
lot
of
their
staffing
levels
by
sending
their
officers
on
almost
every
medical
call.
We
have
so
when
grandma
falls
down
and
can't
get
up.
The
minnetonka
police
department
and
ems
will
go
pick
up
little
old,
ladies
right,
and
when
you
have
an
expectation
that
your
day
is
going
to
be
spent,
at
least
in
part,
picking
up
little
old.
G
Ladies,
that's,
how
you
are
orientated
in
your
job
right,
but
if
you
work
for
a
police
department
that
does
nothing
other
than
medical
rate
like
assaults,
right
shootings
and
stabbings
overdoses,
drug
and
alcohol
related
stuff.
When
that's
the
only
medical
training
that
you
do
right,
I
believe
it
orientates
you
towards
those
things
right,
and
so
it
would
be
incredibly
valuable.
G
C
Well
with
that,
then.
I
would
like
to
make
a
motion
that
this
commission
make
a
recommendation
to
the
mayor
and
the
minneapolis
police
department
to
consider
increased
medical
related
training,
particularly
via
the
medical
support
division.
That
already
exists
within
the
mpd,
and
you
know
I'm
using
a
term
like
consider
because,
as
commissioner
sylvester
pointed
out,
they
might
not
have
the
time
or
you
know
whatever,
but
I
think
this
is
the
moment.
I
think
it's
important,
so
those
are
my
two
cents.
Any
any
discussion
on
that
motion.
D
I'm
not
sure
if
we
could
this,
commissioner
mayweather,
we
could
make
a
push
if
we
are
actually
going
to
see
the
hiring
of
so
many
new
officers.
I
think
a
ideal
time
to
include
such
training
and
maybe
is
in
their
initial
training.
These
are
the
people
are
going
to
have
the
time
to
sit
through
it,
so
at
least
make
it
at
least
a
stronger
push
for
any
new
officers
in
their
training
to
go
to
to
kind
of
have
these
newer
trainings.
A
Yeah,
it's
a
good
point.
I
read
somewhere.
Maybe
it
was
the
strip
I
can't
remember,
but
there
was
the
hiring
this
in
2022
for
mpd.
It
was
expected
to
be
something
like
160
new
officers.
They
had
budget
and
and
so
forth,
for
enough
classes
to
get
something
like
that
number
of
new
officers.
So
maybe,
in
that
regard
it's
probably
a
good
time
right.
Like
commissioner
mcguire
said.
C
A
A
C
That
motion
carries
in
his
chair.
I
will
convey
that
information
to
the
mayor
and
the
mpd,
and
that
brings
us
for
our
next
item.
Commander.
Darcy
horn
will
give
us
an
update
regarding
the
mpd
field,
training
officer
program,
and
I
apologize
we're
we're
later
than
I
promised
you.
We
would
be
commander
horn.
Thank
you
for
being
here
and
commander
horn
is
a
commander
of
training.
So
it's
timely,
I'm
glad
you
were
actually
here
for
that
presentation.
So
please
take
it
away.
Commander
horn.
J
Thank
you
chair.
Sarah,
thank
you
for
having
me
today.
It
was
an
interesting
conversation,
so
I
appreciate
being
able
to
listen
to
that.
I'm
happy
to
be
here
this
evening
to
talk
to
the
commission
about
the
special
project
with
the
field
training
program
with
the
mpd.
J
So,
as
the
as
the
projects
mentioned,
there
was
about
four
issues
that
were
identified,
particularly
the
staffing
in
the
structure
and
the
developing
manuals,
and
for
both
the
trainers
and
the
new
officers
for
the
field.
Training,
coordinators
and
the
precinct
supervisors,
so
encompassing
increased
communication
for
sure
and
establishing
quarterly
training
increase
communication
plans
again
and
to
look
at
the
oversight
in
selecting
the
field
training
officers.
J
So
if,
unless
there's
something,
I
can
just
jump
right
into,
I
guess
in
the
beginning,
with
the
selection
of
the
field
training
officers
and
we
asked
for
a
recommendation
from
a
current
supervisor.
J
And
then
the
precinct
inspector
is
aware
of
that
and
that
officer
candidate
would
be
interviewed
by
individuals
in
the
training
division.
And
then
that
officer
is
their
history.
In
internal
affairs
is
checked
as
well
for
any
open
cases
or
what
any
patterns
or
practices
in
previous
cases
before
being
selected,
so
that
those
checks
as
well
for
the
internal
affairs
process
are,
are
going
to
be
continually
checked.
J
So
there's
a
system
in
place
now
where
internal
affairs
will
alert
the
training
division,
that
a
new
case
has
opened
up,
and
so
then
we
can
communicate
that
to
the
supervisors
at
the
precinct
and
put
this
training
officer
on
what
we
call
a
pause
until
that
incident
has
been
fully
investigated
and
then
it
is
the
decision
of
the
chief
or
designee,
perhaps
the
deputy
chief
of
professional
standards.
If
that
pause
will
be
continued
or
if
that
officer
can
be
a
field.
Training
officer.
J
As
we
continue
with
the
program,
we
will
have
a
three-day
field,
training,
school
and
course,
and
as
well
as
periodic
trainings
than
quarterly
through
the
year,
which
would
help
again
with
communication
and
expectations,
consistency
in
ingrating
and
scoring
help
with
adult
learning
and
problem
solving
and
as
well
as
creating
helping
create
performance
plans
and
certain
programs
like
that.
That
could
be
helped
helpful
for
the
officers
in
training.
J
We
also
have
purchased
a
records
management
system
that
will
help
with
tracking
of
our
officers
in
training,
and
it's
just
starting
we're
just
training
our
ftos
on
it
now.
So
we
will
begin
using
it
in
december,
so
it's
pretty
exciting
and
really
will
help
with
the
reporting
issues
that
we
in
training
will
be
able
to
utilize.
J
So
we
are
pleased
with
with
the
progress
that
we're
making
on
the
fto
program
and
we're
happy
to
I'm
happy
to
take
questions,
and
if
anyone
has
any.
C
Thank
you
I'll.
Thank
you,
commander,
horn
I'll
start
with
the
commission
commissioners.
Any
questions
or
comments
for
commander
horn.
C
I'll
recognize
myself
chair,
sarah,
you
mentioned
there
were
some
new
manuals.
Are
there
those
available?
Are
they
being
written
kind
of?
Where
are
they
in
that
process?.
C
Thank
you
any
other
commissioners,
questions
or
comments.
Commissioner
sylvester.
G
Thank
you
so
much,
and
thank
you
so
much
for
being
here
with
us.
I
really
appreciate
it.
Are
you
with
so
many
potential
new
recruits
this
year
or
next
year?
Are
you
having
difficulty
finding
field
training
officers?
Are
you
finding
difficulty
having
people
come
forward
and
raise
their
hand?
I
mean
this
seems
I
mean
I
I
do
this
on
a
regular
basis
at
my
agency
and
it's
it's
a
tremendous
responsibility.
J
People
are
stepping
up
which,
which
is
great,
to
see,
certainly
as
a
whole,
as
you
mentioned
earlier,
we
are
at
a
a
crisis
with
our
staffing
levels,
so
of
course,
just
relative
we're
down
ftos,
but
I
am
pleased
with
the
the
folks
that
have
agreed
and
recognized
the
importance
of
this
role
and
they
have
stepped
up,
so
that
is,
that
is
good
to
see.
C
We
commander
horn.
We
did
receive
one
public
comment
just
today.
C
From
a
former
officer
who
talked
about
sort
of
shadow,
banning
or
maybe
blacklisting
of
individual
officers
from
being
advanced
to
being
an
fto
kind
of
in
an
act
of
retaliation
or
even
just
a
personality
conflict
or
something
like
that,
is
there
something
about
the
new
program,
the
new
training
that
would
prevent
that
kind
of
thing?
Is
there
like
a
check
and
balance
that
would
provide?
You
know
just
like
a
retaliation
from
a
supervisor
or
something.
J
The
decision
to
be
promoted
to
a
field
training
officer
ultimately
is
with
the
chief's
office
and
the
chief
and
the
deputy
chief
of
professional
standards,
and
that
decision
is
based
on
a
totality
of
work,
performance
and
evaluations,
any
discipline
hearing
or
a
disciplined
history
and
the
number
of
disciplines
or
the
extent
of
it
and
the
time
that
has
happened
from
it.
So
those
are
the
those
decisions
are
made
at
the
chiefs
level.
Based
on
that.
C
Thank
you
and
I
had
one
sort
of
related
question.
Derek
chovin
was
a
field
training
officer
and
he
had
a
number
of
incidents
of
excessive
force
that
were
actually
not
disciplined.
C
So
I
mean
that
brings
up
a
couple
of
questions.
One
is
what
happens
if
you're
engaging
in
misconduct-
or
you
know
you
have
some
problems
but
you're
not
being
disciplined.
Would
that
still
be
sort
of
captured
question
one
and
then
question
two
is:
is
there
a?
Is
there
a
mechanism
to
prevent
officers?
Who
are
you
know,
thumpers
or
engaging
in
a
lot
of
excessive
force?
Is
that
like
a
ban
from
being
a
field,
training
officer.
J
J
No
one
in
training
would
know
what
those
complaints
are,
but
internal
affairs
gets
the
names
they
they
get
when
they
get
the
complaint
in
or
the
notification
they
have
our
list
of
field
training
officers
and
they
can
speak
with
the
deputy
chief
of
professional
standards
and
the
chief
and
they
can
discuss
what
is
appropriate
and
they
will
let
us
know
if
someone
needs
to
be
paused
or
removed
from
that
list,
and
that
is
a
new
step
that
has
been
added
to
this.
So
I
think
that
is
a
positive
step
forward.
G
Thank
you
so
much
commander
is
there?
Is
there
any
ambulance
ride
time
built
into
this
into
the
training
structure
for
new
recruits.
J
I
don't
believe,
there's
an
ambulance
ride
time,
but
there
is
a
a
tour
with
an
ambulance.
You
know
a
walk
around,
so
they
can
familiarization.
C
Recognizing
myself
chair,
sarah
commander
horn
related
one
one
part
of
the
public
comment
was
recommending
patrol
experience
for
individuals
who
are
going
to
be
field
training
officers,
because
the
patrol,
as
I
understand
it,
not
law
enforcement
patrol
is
the
person
who's.
The
cop
who's
actually
on
the
street
and
kind
of
you
know,
taking
calls
within
the
community
sort
of
like
a
ride-along
with
with
the
ambulance.
C
Are
there
any
sort
of
standards
or
if
it's
not
a
hard
requirement
like
a
preferred
requirement,
or
something
of
that
nature
that
would
you
know,
have
put
a
value
on
patrol
experience
or
put
a
value
on
ability
to
de-escalate,
or
you
know,
the
kind
of
like
characteristics
that
we
would
think
would
be
beneficial.
C
K
Hello,
my
name
is
emily
and
I'm
a
community
member
from
north
minneapolis
and
I
actually
have
a
question
about
the
field.
Training
officer.
If
you
have
open
incident
reports
currently,
are
you
able
to
be
a
field?
Training
officer?
Is
that
being
investigated?
Also,
if
your
incidents
are
increasing,
oh,
like
say,
for
instance,
you
have
four
incidents
this
year
last
year
you
had
three
the
year
prior
year,
you
had
two.
Is
that
also
being
looked
at
as
well.
J
J
Typically,
when
something
is
open,
they're
not
field
training
officers,
but
that's
not
an
absolute
someone
may
have.
For
instance,
you
know
an
incident
where
a
mistake
was
made
or
something
was
forgotten
where
there
wasn't
an
intent
or
something
very
serious
that
individual
may
be
allowed
to
train
again.
It
is
at
the
discretion
of
the
chief
or
designee.
C
C
J
C
C
I'll
recognize
myself
chair,
sarah,
it
sounds
like
from
commit.
What
commander
horn
said
is
that
this
isn't
sort
of
an
open
process
and
open
research
and
study
with
the
audit
division,
not
our
audit
subcommittee,
but
the
audit
division
within
the
city.
C
I
don't
want
to
duplicate,
work
or
kind
of
unnecessarily
duplicate
efforts,
so
I
nothing
is
jumping
out
at
me
as
an
action
that
this
commission
needs
to
take.
Apart
from
perhaps
requesting
a
follow-up
or
requesting
an
update.
D
This
is
commissioner
mcguire
just
I
agree
that
I
think
it's
something
that
we
need
to
revisit,
especially
when
those
manuals
become
available
or
more
information
becomes
available.
A
C
Great
well,
what
a
commitment
I
can
make
is,
you
know,
chair
leadership.
Excuse
me
is:
I
can
just
reach
out
to
commander
horn
who's
been
very,
you
know
gracious
with
her
time,
and
I
could
just
send
you
an
email
periodically
and
request
for
an
update
in
the
future
and
perhaps
in
the
january
or
february,
meeting
that
would
be
available
to
us,
okay
without
any
further
ado
losing
my
place.
C
Our
next
item
is
a
discussion
of
misconduct,
investigations
and
specifically,
misconduct.
Specifically.
The
point
I
wanted
to
make
as
chair
is
that
misconduct
investigations
of
minneapolis
police
officers
and
when
that
officer
leaves
the
department
now
the
officer
could
leave
the
department
by
retiring
quitting.
C
Passing
away,
I
mean
you
know
like
whatever
reason
the
officer
leaves
the
department
if
the
officers
in
the
department
the
investigation
ends,
even
if
the
officer
just
goes
to
saint
paul
or
whatever.
You
know
something
like
that.
So
I
wanted
to
put
that
on
the
agenda
to
discuss
and
sort
of
at
the
11th
hour
we
were
able
to
get
the
complaint
process
manual,
and
so
the
page
that
this
policy
appears
on
is
page
8
of
the
manual.
C
My
concern
is
that,
just
because
an
officer
leaves
the
department,
I
think
there
would
still
be
benefit
in
continuing
the
investigation
and
making
whatever
findings
there
are
to
be
made,
and
that
is
because,
if
the
officer
has
in
fact
committed
some
sort
of
misconduct,
I
think
there
should
be
a
finding
of
misconduct
and
a
record
of
it
in
case
that
officer
were
to
return
to
the
minneapolis
police
department
or
if
that
officer
joins
a
different
law
enforcement
agency.
C
This
is
perhaps
right.
You
know
used
to
disprove
a
finding
of
ptsd.
You
know
there's
a
lot
of
legal
implications
that
would
arise
from
some
sort
of
finding
of
misconduct.
C
Anyhow,
I
wanted
to
bring
that
to
the
attention
of
the
group
and
since
it
is
a
simple
policy
within
the
opcr,
I
think
that
is
something
that
this
group
could
talk
about
and
make
recommendations
about
if
we
thought
it
was
appropriate,
so
opening
the
floor
to
discussion,
would
any
commissioner
like
to
offer
thoughts
or
comments
on
that
point?.
A
So,
commissioner,
vice
chair
sparks,
I
did
have
a
question
on
this
and
I'm
sorry
if
you
covered
this
earlier,
but
so
it
says
the
the
text
is,
complaints
may
be
cleared
and
the
officer
no
longer
works
for
mpd.
Do
we
know
how
often
that's
happening?
Is
there
like
a
percentage?
Is
this
a
matter
of
course
like
as
soon
as
an
officer
no
longer
works
for
mpd?
All
investigations
stop
or
what
does?
What
does
that
look
like
in
in
the
real
world?
Do
we
know.
C
My
understanding
is
in
the
real
world,
it's
100
of
the
time.
An
officer
leaves
for
any
reason
that
investigation
just
ended.
It's
hard,
stop
and
that's
come
up
in
totally
like
many
different
contexts
and
many
different
discussions
over
the
course
of
the
pcoc
it's
in
this
opcr
complaint
manual.
I
I
think
it
isn't
within
internal
affairs
policy
as
well,
because
that's
how
it
was
presented
to
me
verbally,
but
I
don't.
I
don't-
have
access
to
certain
internal
affairs
documents,
but
I
believe
it
exists
within
internal
affairs
as
well.
C
You
know,
and
I
can
see
the
logic
of
it
to
some
extent.
It's
like
well,
if
the
officer
is
not
here,
why
waste
resources
or.
C
You
know
I
see
that,
but
you
know
what
we
do:
have
a
community
member,
mr
turchik
who's,
constantly
asking
us
questions.
What
lessons
have
we
learned
and
if,
if
we
consider
a
very
recent
case
of
mr
jolil
stallings,
one
lesson
we
learned
is
that
three
officers
whose
body
camera
videos
showed
egregious
misconduct
left
the
department
before
any
finding.
C
You
know
before
the
investigation
was
concluded
or
any
finding
could
be
made
as
to
misconduct,
even
though
we
could
all
see
it
on
this
body,
camera
video
right.
So
there
isn't
the
documentation
there
wasn't
that
finding
and
it's
you
know
those
officers
could
come
back.
They
could
join
other
law
enforcement
agencies.
C
You
know
that
is
some.
That
is
what
that
was
so
shocking
to
me
that
that's
what
inspired
me
to
put
it
on
the
agenda.
I
think
it's
an
important
lesson
and
an
important
takeaway
from
what
happened
this
past
summer.
A
C
Oh
and
I
did
want
to
say
one
more
thing:
it's
possible
for
an
officer
to
leave,
but
that
officer
would
still
have
criminal
investigations
open
and
so
the
officer
could
come
back
to
court
and
testify-
and
just
say
you
know
I
retired-
on
such
and
such
date.
But
I
did
this
and
you
know
I
made
this
arrest
on
this
date
and
then
I
retired.
A
C
I
Is
james
fans
phone?
I
just
want
to
make
a
comment
on
this
as
well.
I
think
it's
also
critical
that
you
do
not
close
the
investigations
just
so
you
can
take
your
own
lessons
learned.
So,
if
misconduct
occurred
and
it's
never
investigated,
it
will
be
that
much
more
difficult
to
prevent
it
happening
in
the
future.
If
you
don't
know
it
happened
or
how
it
happened
or
why
it
happened.
I
C
C
C
A
Well,
krishna
sparks
all
second
up.
C
A
C
C
I
put
this
on
the
agenda.
We
did
discuss
it
last
month,
but
after
after
we
discussed
it
last
month,
I
did
receive
one
additional
piece
of
documentation
which
is
occluded
in
today's
agenda
and
that
particular
piece
of
documentation
indicated
that
jones
day,
in
addition
to
doing
litigation,
support
and
courtroom
defense.
That
kind
of
thing
is
also
doing
tasks
that
I
would
classify
as
pcoc
tasks
such
as
engaging
public
stakeholders,
proactive
discussion
of
police
reforms
and
that
kind
of
thing
which
is
squarely
within
the
mission
of
the
pcoc.
C
The
city's
charter
does
say
that
the
city
attorney
is
the
exclusive
legal
voice
for
the
city
makes
you
know
the
exclusive
entity
that
can
provide
legal
advice
to
the
city,
so
I
just
have
a
question
about
how
jones
day
you
know
how?
How
can
the
city
sort
of
contract
with
jones
day
in
this
way
for
litigation,
support
and
public
support,
and
that
kind
of
thing?
L
Thank
you,
chair,
chair
sarah.
I
personally
am
not
intimately
involved
with
the
any
of
the
jones
day
contracts
or
any
of
the
numerous
other
contracts
that
their
city
employs
with
outside
legal
counsel,
but
it
is
common
practice
to
engage
outside
legal
counsel.
L
C
One
one
tool
we
have
at
our
in
our
operating
roles
is
that
we
as
a
commission
can
sort
of
certify
questions
if
you
will
to
the
city's
attorney
city
attorney's
office.
So
if
this
group
had
a
wanted
to
have
a
very
thorough
legal
response,
we
could
request
like
a
legal
memorandum
or
a
legal
response
from
the
city
attorney's
office.
On
this
point,
I
have
been
asking
some
questions
of
opr
staff
and
jones
day,
attorneys
and
so
forth,
and
my
understanding
is
that
the
city
attorney.
C
It
wasn't
staffed
at
a
level
to
handle
some
of
these.
You
know
some
of
this
litigation
and
that
the
opcr
had
a
significant
backlog
of
complaints,
and
so
basically
staffing
was
one
reason
to
request
that
jones
day
handle
opcr
complaints
and
litigation
support.
C
I
just
like
to
offer
my
opinion
is
that
we
should
be
supporting
opcr
and
advocating
for
them
to
be
staffed
up.
You
know
if
they
need
additional
investigators,
then
I
think
the
answer
would
be
to
hire
additional
investigators
and
not
to
have
outside
counsel
for
that
and
then
in
terms
of
jones
day,
doing
pcoc
work,
but
that
seems
contrary
to
the
mission
of
the
pcoc
and
contrary
to
the
mission
of
civilian
oversight,
because
of
course
we
are
a
public
entity.
Our
meetings
are
public.
C
C
So
those
were
some
concerns
I
had
did
anyone
else?
Have
any
questions
or
concerns.
A
Spice
chair
sparks,
I
just
want
to
mention
to
you
that,
for
all
of
the,
I
guess,
additional
or
tertiary
work,
for
which
jones
day
is
being
engaged,
the
billable
hours
for
that
are
extremely
expensive
for
an
outside
law
firm,
especially
one
the
size
and
scope,
and
the
profit
focus
that
jones
day
has
probably
in
the
area
of
several
hundred
dollars
an
hour
it.
I
would
seriously
question
if
this
is
a
good
use
of
public
money.
It
seems
like
a
lot
of
fun.
Public
funds
are
going
to
this.
A
You
know
all
of
our
tax
dollars,
then
I
would
question
if
this
is
an
inappropriate
use
of
that
funds,
especially
considering
what
chair
sarah
mentioned
ago
about.
If
we're
going
to
spend
the
money,
maybe
we
staff
up
in
those
areas
instead,
that
might
be
a
better
use
of
those
dollars.
I
tend
to
agree
and
it
is
a
lot
of
dollars.
I
mean
I
think
that
contract
is
pushing
a
million
dollars,
I'm
not
mistaken
grand
total,
it's
very,
very
expensive,
and
that's,
of
course
something
we
should
all
be
concerned
about
too.
C
Thank
you.
I
agree
I'll
open
up
to
the
public
if
anyone
from
the
public
or
any
commissioner
would
like
to
make
a
comment.
Please
press
star
6
to
unmute
yourself,
star
6.,.
H
Hi
this
is
dave
picking.
Yes,
thank
you
for
bringing
this
up
and
particularly
that
question
regarding
the
charter.
That's
a
very
important
question
because
I
recall
I
don't
have
the
exact
language
in
front
of
me,
but
that
jones
day
is
the
lead
attorney
in
dealing
with
the
department
of
justice
investigation.
H
That
seems
contrary
to
that
charter
position,
we
and
communities
united
against
police
brutality
has
formed
a
working
group
to
study
what
we're
referring
to
is
the
privatization
of
police
reform
really
through
a
number
of
areas.
The
most
pressing
is
the
jones
day
contract
because
of
the
many
many
areas
in
which
jones
day
is
involved
and
because
of
the
nature
of
the
law
firm,
their
past
history,
their
involvement
with
you
know,
clients
we
wouldn't
approve
of,
shall
we
say,
including
the
trump
administration,
an
election
lawsuit
and
others
in
general.
H
We
have
taken
the
position
that
jones
day
should
not
be
working
for
the
city
in
any
capacity
clearly
having
them
as
investigators
at
the
opcr
is
very
problematic.
There's
huge
numbers
of
conflicts
of
interest
which
the
contract
just
waives
all
conflicts
of
interest
and,
I
believe,
way,
ways
any
disclosure
of
the
conflicts
of
interest.
So
this
is
an
area
important
to
us
and
we're
working
with
our
coalition
partners
to
press
forward
on
this
issue
of
basically
getting
rid
of
jones
day.
H
So
I
very
much
appreciate
the
work
the
pcac
has
done
to
get
these
contracts
out
and
I
hope
you'll
continue
to
look
into
this
and
I
think
a
legal
opinion
would
be
a
a
good
area
to
pursue
in
that
respect
and
many
others.
So
this
is
something
I
could
talk
about.
You
know
at
another
time
too.
I
know
you've
got
a
long
agenda
tonight
so,
but
thank
you
for
bringing
this
up.
C
Thank
you
recognize
myself,
chair.
Sarah,
thank
you
for
bringing
up
conflicts
of
interest.
You
know.
One
reason
to
hire
outside
counsel
is:
if
there
is
a
conflict
of
interest
and
then
the
outside
counsel
can
handle
one
aspect
of
it
and
the
the
office
can
handle
the
other,
so
the
conflict
is
avoided.
C
It
seems
to
me
that
this
jones
day
contract
is
encompasses
so
many
different
things:
doj
litigation,
opcr
misconduct,
complaints
representing
the
city
when
officers
are
making
disability
claims
that
the
contract
itself
is
creating
conflicts
of
interest
rather
than
resolving
or
addressing
a
conflict
of
interest.
So
thank
you
for
bringing
that
to
our
attention.
Mr
bicking.
C
C
I'd
like
to
make
one
further
comment:
this
is
chair.
Sarah
once
vice
chair
sparks,
and
I
received
that
additional
document
that
let
us
know
that
jones
day
was
doing
essentially
pcoc
work.
I
did
request
a
follow-up
meeting
because
that
was
not
discussed
in
our
in
the
meeting
we
did
have
and
I
just
wanted
to
know
sort
of
how
that's
working,
how
we
can
work
together.
You
know
what
we
can
do
moving
forward
and
john's
day
and
a
city
attorney
weren't
willing
to
meet
for
three
more
months.
C
C
So
you
know
I
have
a
level
of
frustration
I
felt
like
this
was
being
hidden
from
us.
I
made
a
data
practices
request.
That
piece
was
like
a
full
page
redaction.
It
wasn't
until
I
sort
of
pushed
back
on
that
and
said
there
isn't
a
basis
to
to
redact
that
information
that
I
finally
got.
C
That
document
and
then
when
I
requested
discussion
of
that
piece,
we're
being
pushed
even
further
back
three
months
out,
and
I
will
note
that
when
the
city
attorney
originally
asked
council
to
engage
jones
day,
city
council
approved
that
made
that
request.
But
city
council
also
issued
a
staff
direction
that
jones
day
and
the
city
attorney
must
communicate
with
the
pcoc
in
order
to
ensure
a
level
of
you
know:
public
transparency
and
so
on.
That
was
in
december
of
last
year.
C
C
A
Wanted
to
point
out
to
you,
I'm
sorry
chairs
here
I
mean
interrupt
you,
but
that
meeting
was
at
at
our
best.
It
was
our
request
to
have
that
meeting.
It
was
not
something
brought
to
us
by
city,
attorneys
officer
jones
day
with
it.
It
was
spun
up
by
by
our
work
or
really
your
work.
C
I
believe
director
gillespie
has
a
hand
raised
if
that's
correct
director
gillespie,
I
recognize
you
thank
you,
chair.
E
I
I
did
want
to
I
wanted
to
do
my
little
research
before
I
commented
back
to
the
issue
regarding
cost.
I
do
know
a
lot
of
the
work
that
jones
day
is
doing.
Is
pro
bono?
So
that's
a
great
concern
and
I
just
wanted
to
share
that
information,
and
I
don't
have
any
other
information,
particularly
on
that
contract,
to
share,
but
I
do
know
because
I
have
asked
that
question.
It's
it's
pro
bono,
so.
C
Thank
you,
director,
gillespie.
I
believe
that
it
is
pro
bono,
it's
a
mix
of
pro
bono
and
paid,
I
believe
it's
a
million
dollar
contract
and
then
any
services
rendered.
You
know
above
that
would
be
donated
pro
bono
to
the
city,
so
yeah.
So
it's
it
is
a
mix
and-
and
one
thing
I'd
be
interested
in
following
up
with
you.
I
realize
you
only
have
four
weeks
as
director,
but
you
know
we
want
a
partner
one
thing
we
can
do
as
pcoc.
C
One
of
our
mission
statements
is
to
advocate
for
staffing
for
the
civil
rights
department
or
the
opcr
when
when
needed,
and
so
if
there
were,
if
you
could
say
like,
we
need
two
investigators
and
one
intake
officer
or
whatever
you
might
say,
that
would
be
valuable
information
for
us
in
terms
of
our
advocacy
to
counsel
on
the
mayor.
C
A
I'd
be
interested
in
their
response.
You
know
just
me
personally:
okay,.
D
Right
this
is
sorry,
commissioner.
My
only
concern
is
timing,
although
it
doesn't
seem
to
matter.
I
was
just
hoping
that
if
we
could
get
additional
meetings,
we
might
get
answers
more
quickly,
because
I
don't
know
how
long
a
written
response
takes,
but
at
this
point
that
might
not
be
there
might
not
be
a
difference
in
the
timing
of
a
certified.
C
C
Well,
what
I
would
like
to
do
is
chair,
so
I
guess
I'll
make
a
motion.
I
would
like
his
chair
to
bring
that
particular.
Oh,
mr
fussy,
I
recognize
mr
fussy.
L
Thank
you
chair,
sarah
and
commissioners.
Certainly,
I
can
attempt
to
provide
a
response,
that's
written
out,
but
I
I
don't
want
to
get
any
put
any
false,
pretenses
out
there.
The
answer
is
very
clear
that
the
city
attorney
has
the
power
to
hire
deputy
city
attorneys
assistant
city
attorneys,
outside
council,
and
to
coordinate
and
to
marshal
the
forces
regarding
the
litigation
and
legal
services
provided
to
the
city
and
that's
what's
happening
here.
L
We
have
a
long
history,
it's
completely
a
model,
that's
used
in
many
other
cities
of
engaging
with
outside
counsel,
and
that
is
in
full
comp
apartment
with
the
charter,
and
that's
essentially
what
any
opinion
would
say.
But
if
you
want
that
in
more
explicit
written
detail,
we
can
certainly
do
that.
C
Okay,
thank
you
for
that,
mr
fussy
and
I
certainly
don't
want
to
ask
unnecessary
questions
to
create
unnecessary
work,
not
not
at
all
it
just
the
the
charter,
as
written
seems
so
clear.
You
know
it
just
says:
the
city
attorney
is
the
sole
legal
advisor
of
the
mayor
and,
and
I
know
that
there
is
a
history
of
outside
counsel,
so
I'm
just
wondering
kind
of
how
that
works.
Do
you
think,
mr
fussy?
There
would
be
a
value
in
just
like
explaining
how
it
works
to
us.
L
Well,
there
certainly
is,
and
I'm
sorry
for,
jumping
in
chair
sarah.
There
certainly
is
a
more
formal
process
that
is
established
again,
I'm
not
involved
with
it
very
often,
but
there
is
a
pretty
formal
process
in
our
office
with
regards
to
engaging
outside
counsel,
and
I
think
that
could
be
outlined
pretty.
You
know
and
provide
maybe
some
value
to
you.
C
D
It's,
commissioner,
I
think
I
would
also,
if
there's
an
outline
that
we
could
use.
That
would
be
helpful,
especially
when
we're
looking
at
the
potential
activities
that
jones
day
is
participating
in,
might
lead
to
further
questions
for
us
or
just
kind
of
better
inform
us.
It
would
be
really
helpful.
C
Thank
you,
so
mr
fussy,
apologies
putting
in
the
spot
yet
again
do
I
need
to
make
a
motion
for
that
or
since
it's
in
our
operating
rules,
can
I
simply
just
ask
you
for
that
information.
C
C
Okay-
our
next
item
is
a
discussion
of
mayor
fry's,
public
safety
work
group,
which
has
been
convened
very
recently
and
just
today
I
learned
that
the
the
co-chair
of
the
work
group
is
ms
or
attorney
nakimi
levy,
armstrong
and
I
did
send
her
an
email,
just
kind
of
letting
her
know
I
exist
and
inviting
you
know
inviting
communication,
but
I
only
sent
that
this
afternoon,
so
she
hasn't
had
a
chance
to
respond
to
me
or
do
anything
like
that.
C
C
C
I
had
an
idea
that,
maybe
pending
discussion,
we
could
ask
the
mayor
to
make
a
spot
on
the
work
group
for
a
liaison
from
the
pcoc
and
my
idea
that
that
would
be
a
leadership
position
within
the
pcoc.
So
we
would
have
a
chair
vice
chair
and
a
liaison
to
the
work
group.
Just
so
that
communication
could
happen
between
the
two
groups,
and
you
know
there
would
be
presentations
at
future
pcoc
meetings
and
so
on.
C
One
difference
between
a
work
group
and
a
a
board
or
a
commission.
The
border
commission
is
subject
to
open
meeting
law,
we're
a
public
entity.
Everything
we
do
is
public.
We
have
to
have.
If
we
talk
about
a
document,
we
have
to
append
it
to
our
agenda
all
that
kind
of
stuff,
whereas
a
regroup
doesn't
have
to
meet
in
public
and
probably
won't
or
won't
most
of
the
time
it
doesn't
have
that
data
disclosure
requirement
and
our
are
the
pcoc.
Pursuant
to
the
ordinance.
C
We
specifically
must
engage
the
public
and
invite
public
comment
and
that's
part
of
our
mission,
whereas
the
work
group
doesn't
have
that
mission.
But
I
would
imagine
that
the
work
group
would
start
meeting
and
doing
its
work
and
there
may
come
a
time
when
they'd
say:
okay,
we
have
this
idea
and
we'd
love
to
hear
what
community
thinks
about
it,
and
perhaps
that
would
be
a
moment
when
they
would
choose
to
make
a
presentation
to
the
pcoc.
C
For
example,
I'm
just
thinking
of
ways
that
the
two
groups
could
sort
of
complement
each
other
rather
than
kind
of
work.
You
know,
silently
alongside
of
each
other,
so
I'm
gonna
open
the
floor.
Commissioners,
any
any
comments
or
thoughts
about
the
mayor's
working
group
that
you'd
like
to
share.
G
Thank
you
so
much.
I
think
it's
valuable
to
have
as
many
voices
as
possible
in
this
discussion.
I
love
the
idea
of
reaching
out
and
trying
to
establish
a
like
an
official
connection.
I
think
that's
a
wonderful
idea,
yeah
and
I'm
excited
to
see
how
that
relationship
grows.
C
C
Well
then,
I
would
like
to
make
a
motion
for
this
commission
to
recommend
or
excuse
me
request
of
the
mayor
to
to
make
a
spot
for
the
pcoc
or
a
pcoc
representative
on
the
work
group
to
enhance
communication
between
those
two
groups
and
to
kind
of
bridge
the
the
two
entities,
and
I
welcome
discussion
on
that
point
or
that
motion.
Rather
any
discussion.
C
I
I
would
I
wanted
to
offer
one
more
thought.
Last
summer,
when
the
mayor
had
a
few
working
groups
that
were
kind
of
like
this,
but
a
little
bit
different,
there
was
a
spot
for
the
pcoc
on
the
working
group
at
that
time,
and
at
that
time
it
was
the
chair
of
the
pcoc
who
was
tasked
with
going
to
the
meetings.
C
C
Okay,
hearing
no
further
discussion
would
anyone.
Second,
the
motion.
B
C
That
motion
carries-
and
I
will
make
a
recommendation
to
the
mayor
or
excuse
me
or
make
a
request
to
the
mayor
to
add
pcoc
or
a
spot
for
the
pococ
on
his
working
group.
C
D
Thank
you,
chair,
sarah.
So
the
question
just
to
give
a
little
background.
The
minnesota
justice
foundation
is
a
nonprofit
that
does
a
variety.
I
probably
don't
know
the
full
scope
of
everything
that
they
do,
but
one
of
the
things
they
do
is
provide
opportunities
for
law,
students
to
volunteer
for
different,
either
non-profits
entities
in
minnesota
to
provide
their
services
and
one
of
those
one.
A
common
way
of
doing
that
for
law.
D
Students
is
to
perform
legal
research,
and
so
they
had
approached
pcoc
about
engaging
a
volunteer
law
student
to
do
any
type
of
research
really
or
any
sort
of
project
for
the
pcoc.
I
think
we
discussed
research
because
or
just
touched
on
research,
because
that
is
an
easy
way,
especially
during
a
pandemic,
for
a
lawsuit
to
provide
support
to
a
group
like
the
pcoc
and
haves.
I
believe
law
students
have
helped
do
research
for
the
pcoc
in
the
past,
and
so
we
were
looking.
D
I
was
wondering,
if
wanted,
to
propose
ways
to
engage
a
law
student
from
mjf
the
minnesota
justice
foundation.
I
think
a
good
point
chair
sarah
brought
up
previously
is
that
just
to
ensure
that
we
can
do
that.
So
that
might
be
a
question
for
attorney
city
attorney
fussy,
mr
fussy.
If
we
can
ask
a
law
student
to
do
legal
research,
if
there
would
be
any
issues
with
making
that
ask
and
then
the
second
is
what
questions
we
would
like
to
ask,
so
I'm
just
going
to
keep
going
real,
quick.
D
The
questions,
a
question
that
chair
sarah
had
brought
up
was
the
one
that
we
were
discussing
earlier.
Was
you
know
the
city
contracting
with
jones
day
and
outside
entities
and
a
question
I
I
had
in
mind,
perhaps
for
the
next
year
is
now
that
we've
had
votes
on
restructuring.
What
powers
lie
with
the
city,
council
and
the
city
you
know,
might
be
moved
over
to
the
mayor's
office.
How
will
that
affect
the
work
of
the
pcoc
who
we
report
to
kind
of?
How
does
that
that
affects
our
work?
D
I
thought
that
could
be
a
legal
research
question
that
a
law
student
could
spend
time
looking
at.
So
I
guess
just
you
don't
have
to
spend
much
time
on
it.
Mr
fussy,
but
if
there's
any
issues
with
asking
a
law
student
to
do
this
research,
please
let
us
know.
L
Thank
you,
commissioners.
That's
probably
a
question.
I'd
like
to
spend
some
time
looking
at
it.
It
might
be
it's
it's
a
discussion.
I'd
like
to
have
with
my
office.
I
certainly
don't
want
to
cut
anything
off,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we'd
be
doing
anything
in
compliance
with
any
of
the
policies
that
we
have.
D
Okay,
I
think,
in
light
of
that
answer,
I'm
sorry
to
cut
you
off
chair,
sir,
if
you're
about
to
say
something,
I
believe
it
would
be,
even
if
it
is
a
volunteer
opportunity
that
might
not
start
until
the
next
semester
or
the
next
year.
So
I
don't
know
if
we
want
to
wait
for
the
city
attorney's
response
before
we
formulate
those
questions.
I
don't
know
if
anyone
has
any
thoughts.
D
L
And
if
I
could
jump
in
once
again,
if
commissioner
mcguire,
if
you
could
do
me
a
favor
and
kind
of
send
over
the,
I
guess,
proposal
might
not
be
the
correct
term,
but
all
of
the
details
that
you
could
and
I
could
hopefully
find
see
what
the
best
way
forward
would
be
on
that.
C
Thank
you
both
did
anyone
else
have
any
comments
or
questions
for
commission
mcguire
regarding
the
mjf
potential
project.
C
Okay,
we
will
next
take
up
reports.
I
recognize
vice
chair
sparks,
I
believe
who
will
present
the
audit
subcommittee
report.
If
he's
ready.
A
I
am
ready
okay,
so
our
audit
subcommittee
meeting
the
last
one
took
place
november.
22Nd.
A
The
coaching
study
of
the
work
is
sort
of
still
ongoing
to
get
the
foundations
together
were
being
stifled
by
ongoing
litigation,
and
I
think
the
cut
off
that
for
our
research
and
studies.
I
believe
it's
complaints
and
discipline
up
to
2017,
if
I'm
not
mistaken
and
that's
just
kind
of
what
we're
going
with,
but
it's
just
been
slow
going.
The
information
is
in
disparate
areas.
A
A
I
think,
on
our
our
future
meeting,
we
were
going
to
invite
council
to
discuss
some
questions
that
we
had
on
the
arbitration
process
and
we
were
beginning
to
take
a
look
at
the
discipline
process
and
how
we
could
study
disparate
outcomes,
and
then
we
are
still
waiting
for
an
update
on
the
the.
This
is
a
study
that
started
a
long
time
ago.
It
was
about
mpd
interactions
with
members
of
the
trans
community.
A
There
is
member
of
I
keep
trading
her
name,
and
I
feel
so
embarrassed
that
I
do
that
but
she's,
I
believe,
she's
back
from
leave,
but
we
still
need
an
update
from
her
that
hopefully
will
be
forthcoming.
C
A
Sure
so
I
can
just
give
an
update
on
some
of
our
recent
activities.
So,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
a
couple
of
weeks
ago,
I
did
the
hcmc
ride-along
dr
nicholas
simpson,
who
was
with
us
earlier
in
the
evening,
was
my
cohort
and
guide
for
that
ride-along.
It
was
a
four
plus
hour
experience.
A
I
think,
as
I
mentioned
earlier-
probably
not
real
eloquently.
It
was
very
eye-opening
for
me
to
see
the
coordination
between
different
services,
the
real
world
sort
of
situations
that
people
address,
how
you
interact
with
people
in
the
community,
the
quick
decision
making
microsoft
somebody.
A
We
were
first
on
the
scene
on
a
bad
car
accident
and
there
was
somebody
there
who
I'm
absolutely
certain,
had
their
life
saved
by
dr
simpson,
so
that
was
very,
very
eye-opening
and
crazy
to
see
not,
I
would
try
to
go
in
without
a
lot
of
expectations,
just
keep
an
open
mind
and
it
was
very,
very
illuminating
and
I
have
a
newfound
respect
for
everybody
who
works
in
in
ems
and
and
fire
and
police
based
on
my
experiences.
A
So
if
you
have
the
opportunity
which
we
do
and
the
time,
I
would
highly
highly
recommend
that
my
fellow
commissioners
try
to
take
advantage
of
it
because
it
is,
it
is
really
it's
something
else.
What
can
I
say.
A
Chair
syrian
sarah
and
I
also
had
a
meeting
with
sheryl
schmidt,
who
is
the
federation,
the
police
federation
president.
I
mean
it
was
a
good
meetings,
productive,
she's,
very
gracious
with
her
time
she
was
forthcoming.
She
indicated
a
willingness
to
meet
with
us
in
the
future.
You
know
on
an
ongoing
basis
and
to
to
join
these
meetings
and
possibly
provide
presentations
updates
that
sort
of
thing.
A
So
I
think
it
was
a
good
first
step
in
in
that
relationship
and
hopefully
that's
something
we
can
continue
to
grow
as
we
move
forward
with
here,
and
I
also
had
a
quick
update
on
the
the
question
of
stipends.
I
think
a
few
people
have
had
mentioned
that
we
were
having
issues
with
the
the
stipends
coming
from
the
city
and
I
it's
something
I've
been
trying
to
work
on
with
various
departments,
members
of
city
staff,
accounts
payable
and
so
forth,
and
basically
I
don't
have
any
updates.
C
A
A
C
Very
good
I'll
recognize
myself
to
make
chair
updates.
I
had
all
those
meetings
that
vice
chair
sparks
mentioned.
I
also
had
a
pleasant
meet
and
greet
with
director
gillespie.
It
was,
it
was
very
quick,
she'd
only
just
been
hired,
but
you
know
just
the
fact
that
she
wants
to
be
at
this
meeting
and
to
ask
questions
and
to
participate.
I
you
know
I
welcome
with
open
arms
and
I'm
really
excited
about
that
working
relationship
moving
forward,
and
I
think
I
speak
for
the
whole
commission.
When
I
say
welcome
to
the
director.
C
I
have
no
update
on
future
appointees
to
this
commission,
either
reappointments
or
new
appointments.
I
have
asked
for
that
information.
I
I,
the
opcr
staff,
I
believe,
is
in
training
and
they
weren't
available
to
attend
the
meeting
today.
So
I
don't
have
an
update,
we're
down
three
commissioners
since
august.
I
think
and
two
of
us
our
commission
ends
this
month,
so
we're
about
to
be
down
five
commissioners
or
very
close
to
it.
C
So
if
opcr
is
listening,
I
hope
I
hope
that
there
will
be
some
appointments
forthcoming.
Just
so,
we
can
maintain
our
quorum
and
continue
to
do
our
good
work.
C
With
that
and
without
objection,
I
will
direct
the
clerk
to
receive
and
file
this
report.
Thank
you
very
much.
The
next
order
of
business
is
the
acceptance
of
general
public
comments.
I
will
open
the
floor
and
invite
public
comments
from
the
community.
We
will
limit
the
comment
period
to
no
more
than
two
minutes
per
speaker,
and
this
can
be
on
any
topic,
not
just
what
we
discussed
tonight
with
that.
Are
there
any
community
members
on
the
line
who
wish
to
address
the
commission?
Please
press
star
6
to
unmute
yourself,
star
6.,.
H
This
is
dave
picking
again,
and
I
would
like
to
make
a
general
comment,
and
I
appreciate
your
openness
to
comments
today
and
also
the
long
and
very
interesting
agenda
that's
been
put
together
and
again.
I
appreciate
very
much
the
links
that
come
with
those
I'll
be
looking
at
a
number
of
those.
When
I
commented
about
jones
day.
One
thing
I
forgot
to
say
is
that
it's
pushing
the
public
out
of
police
reform
efforts
or
any
participation
in
the
decision
making
or
even
research
regarding
police
reform.
H
H
This
is
something
that's
happened,
a
number
of
times
in
the
past
of
your
organization
that
the
pcoc
is
not
included
in
the
discussions
that
it's
supposed
to
be,
or
sometimes
even
discussions
that
it's
promised
to
be,
and
now
it's
the
pcoc
was
totally
left
out
of
that
mayor's
working
group
on
public
safety.
That's
simply
unacceptable
and
it
is
a
disservice
to
the
public
and
it's
a
disservice
to
your
commission
and
also,
as
you
note,
they
have
they
closed
the
applications
for
the
pco-oc
on
october
22nd.
H
There
have
been
no
appointments
made
so
far
as
I
know
there
have
been
no
interviews
done.
Certainly
those
who
applied
and
haven't
gotten
an
interview
haven't
gotten
any
other
response.
Yet
to
say
why
they're
not
getting
interview,
it's
now
impossible
with
the
council
schedule
for
there
to
be
new
members
for
the
january
meeting
of
the
pcoc
and
again
this
has
been
a
pattern
too
many
years
of
the
pcoc
being
kept
weak
and
ineffective
by
simply
not
appointing
people
to
it.
Talk
about
passive
aggressive.
I
guess
this
is
again
unacceptable.
C
C
C
Well,
I
hope
I'll
see
everyone
back
here
next
month
for
the
january
11th
regular
meeting.
If
we
have
enough
members
to
make
quorum,
seeing
no
further
business
to
come
before
us
and
without
objection,
I
will
declare
this
meeting
adjourned.
Thank
you,
everyone
and
good
night.
Thank
you!
Everyone,
great
meeting,
everyone.
Thank
you.
Thank.