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From YouTube: April 13, 2021 Police Conduct Oversight Commission
Description
View Marked Agenda
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Board/MarkedAgenda/PCOC/2363
View Minutes
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/CommitteeReport/1787/Police%20Conduct%20Oversight%20Commission%20Minutes.pdf
Additional information at
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov
B
Good
evening,
everyone-
my
name,
is
cynthia
jackson
and
I
am
the
chair
of
the
police
conduct
oversight,
commission
and
I'm
going
to
call
this
meeting
for
april
the
13th
to
order,
as
we
begin
I'll
note,
that
this
meeting
has
remote
participation
by
commissioners
and
city
staff
as
authorized
under
minnesota
statutes,
sections
13
d
.021
due
to
the
declared
local
public
health
emergency,
the
city
will
be
recording
and
posting
this
meeting
to
the
city's
website
and
youtube
channel
as
a
means
of
increasing
public
access
and
transparency.
B
B
You
miss
brock
next,
we'll
proceed
to
our
agenda,
a
copy
of
which
has
been
posted
for
public
access
to
the
city's
legislative
information
management
system,
which
is
available
at
limbs.
E
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
to
the
members
I
want
to
start
by
saying
we
were
excited
to
have
a
presentation
for
you
tonight
in
response
to
the
directive
adopted
at
your
last
meeting
dealing
with
the
issue
of
coaching
and
the
chair,
and
I
in
consultation,
decided.
Perhaps
it
was
best
to
delay
that
presentation
till
the
next
cycle.
E
That
was
in
response
to
very
public
comments
made
by
the
judge
in
the
chauvin
trial,
which
said
would
like
to
have
less
public
discussions
by
the
city
that
could
have
an
undue
or
unintended
consequence
in
the
trial,
and
so
in
consultation
with
chair
jackson.
E
I
notified
the
department
heads
who
were
prepared
to
be
here
tonight
to
make
that
presentation
and
asked
them
to
clear
their
calendars
for
the
meeting
in
may,
so
that
presentation
will
then
carry
forward
to
may
and
it's
my
expectation
that
we'll
have
the
chief
human
resources
officer
of
the
city,
patience,
ferguson,
we'd,
have
our
city
attorney
jim
router
and
we'll
have
the
chief
of
police,
madaria
arendando
or
the
assistant
chief
of
police
henry
halverson,
depending
on
their
schedules.
Who
will
be
in
attendance
to
provide
some
information
about
coaching?
E
F
If
I
would
could
I
please
request
the
admission
of
a
document
that
is
relative
to
the
audit
committee's
work
of
business,
of
which
I'll
be
reporting
on
later
in
this
evening
in
new
business?
It's
a
document
that
I've
already
sent
to
the
clerk
and
is
publicly
available
later
in
this
meeting.
E
Yes,
madam
chair,
we
need
he's,
he's
making
a
motion
to
amend
the
agenda
to
add
a
new
item
of
business,
and
so
currently
we
don't
have
the
order
of
new
business,
because
there
was
no
new
business
when
this
agenda
was
put
together.
Commissioner,
pino
has
circulated
a
draft
letter
that
would
be
up
for
this
body's
consideration
as
new
business
later
on
in
the
agenda,
and
so
that
amendment
is
before
you.
B
B
G
H
H
B
All
right,
thank
you,
so
the
motion
carries
and
the
agenda
is
adopted
next,
we'll
move
on
to
the
acceptance
of
the
meetings.
I
mean,
I'm
sorry,
the
minutes
from
our
march
9th
meeting.
May
I
have
a
motion
to
accept
the
minutes
so
moved.
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Pinaud.
Can
I
have
a
second
please.
I
B
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Jacobson
clerk,
may
you
please
call
the
roll.
G
F
H
H
B
Thank
you
that
motion
carries
and
the
minutes
for
the
march
meeting
are
accepted.
We
will
now
move
on
to
the
section
of
the
meeting
where
we
accept
public
comments,
I'll
open
the
floor
and
invite
comments
from
the
community.
We
will
limit
public
comment
period
to
no
more
than
two
minutes
per
speaker
with
that.
Are
there
any
community
members
on
the
line
who
wish
to
address
the
commission?
B
B
G
Please
well
if
no
one
else
has
a
comment:
I'll
go
ahead.
My
name's
chuck
turchik.
I
live
in
phillips,
madam
chair
and
commissioners,
two
quick
comments.
When
the
pcoc
was
first
formed,
then
opcr
director,
michael
brown,
informed
the
pcoc
commissioners
how
the
opcr
would
be
willing
to
help
them
perform
their
audit
of
summary
data
function.
G
The
result
essentially
prescribed
by
the
opcr
was
the
10
case,
synopsis
and
3k
summaries.
Each
month
in
last
month's
meeting,
there
was
some
contention
between
some
of
you
and
opcr
staff
about
the
extent
of
additional
information,
in
the
case
summaries
that
some
of
that
some
of
you
felt
you
should
have
access
to.
It's
probably
a
coincidence
and
there's
probably
some
logical
explanation,
but
this
month
there
were
quite
a
few
snafu's.
Regarding
the
case
synopses
and
the
case
summaries,
you
received
one,
you
received
no
new
case
synopsis
at
all
two.
G
The
case
summaries,
you
did
receive,
seem
to
contain
much
less
data
than
they
did
previously
and
three,
none
of
the
case,
summaries
you
did
receive
were
any
of
the
three
you
selected
from
last
month's
case
to
nazis.
This
makes
fulfilling
your
audit
of
summary
data
function
impossible
to
do.
Someone
should
ask
how
that
happened.
My
second
comment
has
to
do
with
something
that
that
I
don't
even
know
if
it
exists,
but
I've
heard
people
a
lot
more
knowledgeable
than
I
am
mention
it,
especially
during
the
last
year.
G
So
I'm
assuming
it
does
exist
and
that's
police
culture
or
the
culture
of
the
mpd.
What
I
take
it
to
mean
are
there
informal
rules
and
attitudes
and
values
of
the
rank
and
file
officers
of
the
mpd
that
in
large
part,
determine
how
the
department
functions
in
the
real
world.
Now
everyone
talks
about
it,
but
rarely
do
people
try
to
pin
down
what
it
is.
That
is,
how
does
the
department
operate
in
reality?
G
I
know
you
have
usually
focused
on
policy
recommendations
and
I
don't
mean
to
diminish
those
policy
recommended
suggestions
the
pclc
has
made.
They
have
certainly
resulted
in
some
important
changes
within
the
mpd,
but
if
official
policies
are
scoffed
at
or
taken
lightly
by
the
rank
and
file
officers
or
if
they're
not
enforced
by
mpd
management,
sometimes
they
don't
mean
a
whole
lot.
So
I
think
some
entity
in
this
city
ought
to
begin
the
discussion
about
what
the
mpd
culture
really
is
and
what
better
entity
is
there
to
do
that
than
the
pcoc.
G
B
Thank
you
very
much
for
that
comment,
mr
churchik.
Are
there
any
other
members
of
the
public
that
would
like
to
make
a
comment
remember
to
star
six
to
unmute
yourself
and
state
your
name
for
the
record.
B
B
Okay
well
at
this
point
I
would
normally
say
I
want
to
thank
all
of
our
speakers,
but
I
would
like
to
thank
our
one
speaker
this
evening.
Thank
you
for
that
comment.
We'll
move
on
to
reports
the
audit
subcommittee
report.
The
next
agenda
item
is
for
reports.
B
F
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
As
the
chair
mentioned,
audit
subcommittee
had
our
first
meeting
of
the
year
in
which
it
was
primarily
just
to
establish
a
baseline.
If
you
will
understand
where
we
were
at
get
a
little
bit
of
context
of
where
what
committee
work
we
have
done
in
the
past.
In
order
of
our
agenda,
we
received
ongoing
audit
updates,
most
notably
hate
crime
reporting
that
was
brought
to
our
attention
by
lgbt
group
in
the
city
back
in
2020.
F
That
is
still
ongoing
and
we're
we're
looking
forward
to
getting
that
moving
along
further.
We
also
asked
for
updates
regarding
a
3-1-1
study
that
we're
doing
with
the
audit
the
the
audit
department
and
they're
really
taking
a
majority
of
the
lead
on
that,
but
we
still
had
that
as
one
of
our
charges
last
year,
so
we're
still
curious
in
getting
more
information
on
that.
F
Hopefully,
in
the
next
meeting
we
also
just
began
the
initial
groundwork
for
the
coaching
proposal
that
was
discussed
back
in
2020
by
commissioner
abigail,
sarah
of
which
it
was
referred
to
the
audit
subcommittee.
We
haven't
begun
any
work
on
that
we're
just
asking
for
both
that
document,
as
well
as
the
legal
opinion
from
the
city
attorney's
office,
which
we
will
look
at
in
more
depth
at
our
next
meeting.
F
Also,
apart
from
ongoing
reports,
we
established
a
regular
meeting
time
of
1
p.m
on
the
fourth
tuesday
of
every
month.
So
we
now
have
a
regular
meeting
time
and
then.
Finally,
in
our
discussion
section,
we
discussed
an
open
letter
to
the
minneapolis
police
department,
police
chief
regarding
police
responses
to
mass
demonstrations
of
public
protests.
F
That
is
something
that
we
ended
up,
deciding
that
we
would
move
forward
on
and
we
would
draft
a
letter
for
consideration
later
tonight
reason
why
we
amended
the
agenda
to
discuss
that
in
new
business.
So
I'm
going
to
save
the
details
of
that
letter,
just
letting
you
know.
That
is
something
that
we
wrote
and
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
it
later
tonight
and
with
that,
madam
chair,
my
report
is
finished
and
I'd
be
happy
to
take
any
questions.
F
C
F
The
the
short
version
of
the
update
is
that
we
haven't
had
a
substance.
We
haven't
had
feedback
from
department
of
civil
rights
staff
who
are
working
on
it
since
we
we
weren't
able
to
meet
quorum
back
in
2020,
so
we're
now
picking
that
back
up
again
essentially,
and
once
we
actually
hear
substantive
feedback
of
the
structuring,
we
were
still
in
the
structuring
phase.
F
The
methodology
methodology,
development
phase
of
that
report,
and
once
we
get
more
information
back
on
that,
we'd
be
happy
to
report
it
out
to
the
full
commission.
B
Okay,
thank
you,
commissioner
panel
again
for
that
report.
With
that
and
without
objection,
I
will
direct
the
clerk
to
receive
and
file
this
report.
B
Okay,
next
order
of
business
is
a
presentation
that
we
have
this
evening
by
representatives
of
knock
first
minnesota,
a
nonpartisan
initiative
created
by
the
community
justice
project
of
the
university
of
saint
st
thomas
school
of
law.
I'll
turn
the
floor
over
to
our
guests
for
this
presentation
after
the
presentation
we'll
have
time
for
questions
and
discussion.
K
And
my
name
is
sarah
murtad,
I'm
also
a
second
year
law
student
at
the
university
of
saint
thomas
and
so
yep.
We
are
initiative
with
the
community
justice
project
of
the
university,
st
thomas
school
of
law,
and
then
it
looks
like
I
don't
have
control
so
if
you
would
be
willing
to
switch
to
the
second
slide.
Thank
you
yeah.
K
So
not
first
minnesota
star
of
20
in
light
of
the
vienna
taylor
shooting
and
our
mission
is
that
every
minnesotan
deserves
the
chance
to
answer
the
door,
we're
looking
at
no
knock
warrants
and
how
they
impact
minneapolis
and
also
minnesota
as
a
whole.
K
You
can
switch
to
the
next
slide.
Please
thank
you
yeah.
So
I
want
to
go
into
no
knock
warrants
and
specifically
some
stories
as
in
minneapolis
how
they've
affected
minneapolis
before
we
go
more
in
depth
into
what
a
no
knock
warrant
is.
So
I
want
to
start.
First
on
the
night
of
january,
25th
1989.
K
police
officers
received
a
no
knock
warrant
and
in
the
middle
of
the
night
they
fired
a
flash
grenade
into
a
home
that
they
believed
to
be
empty.
They
did
this
based
on
an
onop
warrant
executed
in
relation
to
a
drug
raid.
The
grenade
that
they
shot
into
the
house
ended
up
starting
a
fire
and
there
was
an
elderly
couple
in
there.
K
Lillian
weiss
and
lloyd
smalley
who
had
absolutely
no
relation
to
the
drug
activity.
They
ended
up
dying
when
the
house
caught
fire
from
the
flashbang
grenade
and
after
that
there
were
really
significant
protests
march
is
similar
to
what
we're
seeing
today.
K
However,
the
police
were
never
charged
or
arrested
at
any
point
for
this
incorrect
use
of
a
no
knock
warrant
ended
both
of
their
deaths,
and
then
I
want
to
fast
forward
to
another
minneapolis
incident
december
of
2007,
the
kong
family
incident
again
12
30
at
night,
just
a
little
bit
after
midnight
police
received
incorrect
information
from
a
single
uncollaborative
uncollaborated
informant
about
a
crime.
K
So
at
12,
30
at
night
police
burst
into
a
home
where
the
homeowner,
the
father
of
six
children,
all
of
whom
were
present
in
the
home,
thought
his
house
was
being
broken
into
in
response
to
what
he
believed
to
be
a
burglary.
He
started
shooting
at
police
and
fired
two
shots
through
the
bedroom
wall.
K
Police
were
protected
by
body
armor
and
neither
of
them
was
injured.
However,
they
also
fired
back
at
the
homeowner.
Luckily
they
missed
and
no
one
was
injured.
However,
both
of
these
cases
this
case,
especially
it's
really
just
luck
of
the
draw
that
no
one
was
injured.
There
was
significant
damage
to
the
home
and
these
two
cases
really
illustrate.
Why
no
knock
warrants
are
an
issue
for
minneapolis.
J
Yeah,
so
no
I'm
just
going
to
cover
a
little
bit
of
the
basics
of
a
no
knock
warrant.
You
know
nunc
warrants,
provide
an
exception
to
something
called
the
knock
and
announce
rule
for
law
enforcement.
The
knock
and
announce
rule
is
a
part
of
the
fourth
amendment
and
is
applicable
to
all
federal
and
state
law
enforcement.
J
The
rule
requires
law
enforcement
to
first
audibly,
make
their
presence
known,
such
as
by
knocking
announce
their
status
as
law
enforcement,
such
as
by
saying
police,
announce
the
purpose
of
the
law
enforcement
presence,
such
as
by
saying
search
warrant
and
then
delay
for
a
period
sufficient
to
permit
the
occupants
to
reach
the
door,
reach
and
open
the
door
in
general.
A
delay
of
30
seconds
is
sufficient
before
forced
entry
is
permissible,
but
it
depends
on
all
the
circumstances
involved,
such
as,
if
it's
at
night
or
not
next
slide.
Please.
J
All
right
so
a
little
more
about
nanak
warrants.
They
were
first
instituted
during
the
nixon
administration's
war
on
drugs.
The
primary
justification
for
the
use
of
no
knock
warrants
is
that
unannounced
entry
will
prevent
harm
to
officers
and
also
prevent
the
destruction
of
evidence,
because
a
lot
of
drug
evidence
is
easily
destroyed.
J
Several
several
war
on
drugs
policies
incentivize
the
use
of
these
specifically
buy
special
weapons
and
tactics
units
throughout
the
country.
Swat
teams
are
use,
parameter,
para
military
tactics
and
gear
to
perform
their
duties
and
they
often
do
perform
any
forced
entry
activity,
although
it
is
notable
that
they
aren't
required
to
any
police
officer,
could
serve
an
o'nock
warrant
and
they
don't
even
need
to
have
any.
They
could
be
in
planes
closed
next
slide.
K
Yeah
so
there's
quite
a
few
different
constitutional
issues
that
we
run
into
when
we're
talking
about
no
knock
warrants.
So
I
want
to
start
with
the
fourth
amendment
you
have
a
right
to
privacy
in
your
own
home
and
so
having
police
officers
barge
into
your
home,
without
announcing
without
knocking,
can
really
be
a
violation
of
that
right.
K
Additionally,
minnesota
follows
the
castle
document.
You
have
a
right
to
self-defense
and
to
defend
your
home,
and
so
what
happens
as
in
those
cases
that
I
mentioned
earlier,
we
have
instances
where
people
believe
their
home
is
being
robbed
and
they're
worried
about
their
safety
and
the
safety
of
their
families,
and
they
act
in
self-defense,
not
realizing
that
it's
actually
the
police
barging
into
their
homes.
K
K
Looking
at
the
5th
6th
and
14th
amendment,
this,
the
justification
behind
no
knock
warrants
assumes
that
those
in
the
home
are
going
to
act
violently.
If
they
know
law
enforcement
is
coming
in,
their
home
assumes
that
they
are
going
to
obstruct
justice
and
takes
away
any
sort
of
presumption
of
innocence
that
they
generally
would
be
deemed
to
have,
and
so
we
really
run
into
these
constitutional
rights
with
that
next
slide,
please.
K
Yeah
and
so
there's
no
knock
warrants
are
pretty
they're
a
hot
topic
right
now
around
the
country,
and
so
different
states
and
different
cities
are
also
instigating
bans
or
restrictions.
So
florida,
oregon,
utah
and
virginia
all
have
different
bands
and
utah
also
is
the
only
state
with
mandatory
tracking
of
forced
entry
by
law
enforcement,
so
they
are
required
to
track
every
single,
no
knock
warrant
that
is
executed.
K
Additionally,
the
list
of
specific
cities
that
are
banning
no
knock
warrants
increases
every
day
includes
louisville
memphis,
indianapolis
topeka,
san
antonio
and
houston.
K
J
Yes,
so
one
thing
that
people
say
to
me
when
I
bring
this
up
to
them
in
minneapolis
specifically,
is
they
say?
Oh,
I
thought
that
was
taken
care
of,
or
they
think
that
it
no
knock
warrants
are
banned
outrightly
in
minneapolis
on
november
24th,
2020
minneapolis
did
publish
their
first
policy
regarding
the
use
of
nominal
warrants.
J
One
of
the
aspects
of
this
policy
was
that
it
labeled
unannounced
and
announced
entry
search
warrants,
which
was
good,
because
then
that
would
make
it
more
easy
to
find
that
data,
because
one
of
the
issues
we
would
run
into
when
looking
for
data
is
that
there's
no
delineation
between
the
search
warrants
with
unannounced
entry
or
announced
entry,
and
so
you'd
literally,
have
to
sift
through
all
of
the
search
warrants
and
find
the
details
regarding
the
type
of
entry
that
was
asked
for
in
regards
to
this
new
categorization.
We
have
a
data
request.
J
That's
out
there
seeking
information
after
the
policy
has
been
enacted
next
slide,
please.
J
J
J
Also,
the
policy
does
not
include
additional
warrant
application
requirements
for
no
knock
warrants,
or,
in
this
case
they're
referred
to
as
unannounced
entry
warrants.
The
policy
does
not
require
the
officers
executing
the
no
knock
warrant
to
be
in
uniform.
J
It
is
also
important
to
note
that
the
city
of
minneapolis
recently
paid
out
170
thousand
dollar
civil
lawsuit
to
somebody
who
suffered
burns
from
a
flashbang
device
that
wasn't
during
a
no
knock
warrant,
but
it's
just
a
you
know
a
fact
that
shows
their
danger.
J
The
policy
does
not
require
active
body
cameras
during
the
execution
of
unannounced
entry.
The
policy
does
not
limit
the
use
of
announced
entry
to
the
daytime.
A
big
issue
with
no
knock
warrants
an
announced
entry
is
when
it
happens.
In
the
middle
of
the
night.
People
are
really
disoriented,
they
don't
know
what's
going
on.
It
makes
things
a
lot
more
difficult
for
people
to
understand,
what's
happening
and
they
may
react
more
violently.
J
The
policy
does
not
define
exigent
circumstances
so
with
exigent
circumstances,
police
can
enter
a
home
without
a
warrant.
Exigent
circumstances
are
basically
emergencies.
This
policy
carves
out
a
space
for
exigent
circumstances
and
using
unannounced
entry
warrants
for
exigent
circumstances.
J
Another
factor
that
is
one
that
I've
recently
come
to
realize
is
that
this
policy
does
not
mention
the
potential
presence
of
children
as
described
in
the
2007
incident.
There
were
six
children
present.
That's
a
lot
of
trauma,
that's
a
lot
of
things
that
can
affect
that
child's
development,
seeing
loved
ones
fired
upon
by
police
officers.
J
I
would
like
to
also
give
credit
to
campaign
zero,
an
organization
that
helped
us
in
this
policy
analysis
next
slide.
Please.
K
Yeah
so,
like
john
said,
we
did
get
a
success
in
identifying
unannounced
and
announced
entries.
However,
the
issue
that
we're
running
into
in
the
issue
that
we
would
like
to
request
help
with
from
the
from
all
of
you,
is
trying
to
get
some
information
on
how
this
is
actually
working,
so
what
we
have
done
in
the
past,
so
the
policy
went
into
effect
january
2021.
K
We
filed
a
data
request
january
20
or
february
2021,
requesting
all
requesting
the
number
of
unannounced
and
announced
entries
done,
the
types
of
crimes
that
were
used,
the
racial
breakdown
of
subjects
and
unannounced
entries
the
location
of
unannounced
entries
by
neighborhood.
So
that
way
we
could
get
a
more
comprehensive
understanding
of
how
often
they're
being
used.
Is
there
a
difference
between
before
the
policy
and
after
the
policy?
Are
they
still
being
disproportionately
used
against,
or
are
they
disproportionately
being
used
in
minority
neighborhoods,
as
we
see
nationally?
K
Is
that
the
case
in
minneapolis
as
well?
However,
we
have
not
been
able
to
get
this
information.
We
haven't
heard
back
from
our
data
requests.
We
followed
up
multiple
times
with
the
mayor.
We
were
able
to
get
in
touch
with
one
of
the
clerks
who
said
it
could
be
many
weeks,
but
then
we
weren't
able
to
get
an
exact
time
to
expect
that
information.
K
What
we
would
like
is
the
establishment
of
a
monthly
audit
of
forced
entry
by
the
minneapolis
police
department.
The
audit
could
be
a
mandatory
report
periodically
released
by
the
city,
stating
the
number
of
unannounced
entries
completed.
The
number
of
announced
entries
completed
types
of
crimes
used
for
the
basis
of
unannounced
entries.
We
would
want
that
to
see.
Are
they
really
exigent
circumstances?
K
Are
these
emergencies
etc?
The
racial
breakdown
of
subjects
to
unannounced
entries,
the
geographic
location
of
unannounced
entries
by
neighborhood
and
a
report
of
entries
that
either
resulted
in
civilians
needing
medical
care
or
law
enforcement
needing
medical
care?
K
Next
slide,
please
and
so
yeah
now
we'd
like
to
open
it
up,
see
if
there's
any
questions,
comments,
suggestions,
etc.
J
And
I
would
also
just
like
to
thank
the
commission
for
hearing
our
presentation
today.
I've
been
looking
forward
to
presenting
to
you
guys
since
last
fall,
and
I
really
appreciate
all
your
service.
B
I
am
unmuted
okay,
commissioner.
Vice
chair
abdi,
I
do
see
your
hand,
I
have
a
question.
I
want
to
ask
real
quick,
or
maybe
it's
just
a
comment,
but
under
the
section
9-307
I
believe
that
would
be
like
section
two
paragraph
d.
B
I
think
that
that
should
be
a
reasonably
believed
barrier
to
perception
that
the
officers
should
automatically
carry
that
with
them,
that
they
are
waking
people
up
in
the
middle
of
the
night,
and
they
may
not
respond
the
way
law
enforcement
demands
that
we
be
compliant
and
quiet
at
all
times
that
that
really
needs
to
be
highlighted
and
paid
attention
to
there's
a
huge
problem
with
this
policy.
B
Taking
that
into
consideration.
I
just
wanted
to
get
that
off
my
chest
and
vice
chair
abdi.
Please
make
your
comment.
Ask
your
question.
L
Thank
you,
commissioner
jackson.
I'm
really
excited
about
this.
Thank
you
so
much
for
the
presentation
I
want
to
support
this
initiative
like
in
any
way
possible
that
we
can,
in
this
capacity
and
yeah
it's
I'm
just
really
interested
to
see
like
more
background
behind
it
because,
like
at
a
time
at
night,
people
are
taking
medication.
L
My
like
you
know
what
there's
just
a
lot
of
scenarios
that
could
happen
that
I
definitely
want
to
look
into
more.
Do
you
guys
have
maybe
like
not
like
a
blueprint
or
maybe
like
an
example
of
like
an
agency
that
has
done
this
and
like
their
policy
like
addresses
all
these
issues,
so
we
can
kind
of
use
that,
for
reference.
J
Yes,
we
do
have
model
legislation
from
campaign
zero
that
is
addresses
all
these
issues
and
in
regards
to
the
creating
of
an
audit,
a
monthly
audit.
I
don't
know
if
there's
I
don't
know,
I
don't
know
of
any
specific
to
any
state
or
city
regarding
forced
entry.
I
think
it
would
be
a
very
advantageous
thing
for
a
city
to
have-
and
I
do
I
have
heard
and
seen
accountability
dashboards
from
other
police
departments
where
they
describe
other
use
of
forces
and
stuff
like
that.
E
B
H
B
Yes,
thank
you,
commissioner.
Pineau.
F
Yeah,
thank
you
both
for
presenting
and
also
as
a
fellow
policy
person.
Thank
you
for
giving
credit
to
campaign
zero
with
the
policy
analysis.
Awesome
to
hear
that
I
have
a
question
regarding
your
data
request.
You
said
that
it
was
initiated
in
2021
makes
sense
from
the
the
code.
Do
you
remember
the
specific
date
of
that
request?.
M
Thank
you
so
much,
and
thank
you
for
this
presentation.
This
is
fascinating
going
forward.
I
just
the
suggestion,
maybe
in
any
monthly
reporting
that
we
get
on
this
issue.
Maybe
we
could
include
warrants
that
were
served
in
the
city
of
minneapolis,
regardless
of
an
agency.
So
if
we
could
also
see
you
know
not
only
minneapolis
police
but
the
hateful
county
sheriff's
department,
I
know
I've
you
know
been
on
standbys
as
a
paramedic.
M
I've
been
on
standbys
with
outside
agencies
from
different
cities
that
come
into
minneapolis
looking
for
people
serving
warrants
in
that
capacity,
so
I
think
it
might
give
us
just
a
much
broader
picture
of
who
is
serving
warrants
in
minneapolis,
and
these
like
these,
these
special
types
of
ones,
just
a
suggestion.
B
Thank
you
for
that,
commissioner.
Mcguire.
N
N
I
would
like
to
suggest
if
we
you
know,
if
we
we
do
a
monthly
audit,
just
adding
that
piece
as
well,
I'm
seeing
what
arrests
arise
out
of
no
knock
warrants,
and
the
second
was
just
more
of
a
policy
in
your
policy
research.
I
had
a
question:
have
you
seen
any
difference
in
the
protection
of
civilians?
Fourth,
amendment
rights
when
it's
a
cities
ordinance
banning
no
knock
horns
versus
like
a
state,
something
that
came
out
of
the
state
legislature
or
a
judicial
ban
that
might
be
too
early
to
tell.
J
Yeah,
that's
an
excellent
question.
The
overarching
problem
with
no
knock
warrants
is
the
lack
of
data,
it's
very
hard
to
find
any
data
regarding
it.
I
have
spoke
with
dr
p
kraska
on
the
issue
last
summer
and
during
the
fall
when
I
was
trying
to
gather
my
own
data.
J
B
I'd
like
to
just
add
one
more
criteria
to
the
data
and
that,
in
addition
to
arrest
made
I'd
like
to
know,
injuries
incurred.
D
Yeah,
thank
you.
Thank
you
both
for
for
the
powerpoint
in
the
the
studies.
Super
interesting
definitely
learned
a
lot.
I
just
have
a
few
questions
and
you
guys
might
address
it.
So
I
apologize,
but
I
think
you
mentioned,
like
the
body.
Cameras
are
not
required
during
the
the
no
knock
warrant
was
that
is.
Is
that
accurate
or
is
that
go
by
like
state
or
or
what
is.
J
Yeah,
so
the
thing
about
no
knock
warrants
in
minnesota,
as
well
as
there's
no
statutory,
there's
no
statutes
regarding
no
knock
warrants
whatsoever.
There's
only
court
opinions
saying
that
they're
permissible
regarding
the
use
of
body
cameras.
Just
within
that
policy
there
is
no
requirement.
There
is
no
requirement
for
active
body
cameras
within
that
specific,
no
knock
warrant
policy.
J
One
of
the
one
of
the
core,
I
think,
nonpartisan
policy
initiatives
regarding
oh,
not
quarantines,
is
that
is
having
active
body
cameras
and
having
that
policy
in
place
because
it
does.
It
does
help
liability
on
the
police
end
and
just
to
see.
What's
going
on
in
general,.
L
Yes,
I
have
a
question
that
you
guys
may
have
addressed
as
well,
but
why
isn't
there
data
around
like
no
knock
warrants
because,
like
you
said
that
seems
to
be
like
the
overarching
problem
with
this?
So
is
it
like,
maybe
like
the
misclassification
of
like
the
kind
of
warrant
that
has
something
to
do
with
it,
like
from
your
guys's
experience
and
research?
What
do
you
guys
think.
J
Oh
yeah,
sarah,
do
you
mind
if
I
address
this
before,
is
that
okay?
So
last
summer
I
attempted
to
do
my
own
research
regarding
just
the
number
of
no
knock
warrants
issued
in
minnesota
each
entity.
I
talked
to
either
didn't
have
the
data
on
hand
or
they
had
their
own
way
of
tracking
it.
There
is
no
universal
tracking
of
no
knock
warrants.
I
did
contact
the
courts
several
times
the
courts
system
several
times
as
well.
They
didn't
have
a
system
for
tracking
it.
I
did
contact
the
public
department
of
public
safety.
J
They
didn't
have
a
way
of
tracking
it.
I
just
think
it's
something
that
there
is
no
universal
tracking,
and
so
it's
really
hard
to
get
the
data.
It
is
possible,
but
it
would
take
hours
of
sifting
through
different
warrants
if
in
bigger
cities,
that's
just
a
lot
a
lot,
a
lot
to
ask
of
a
department.
B
I
I
I
think,
if
the
we're
going
to
have
this
policy,
then
we
absolutely
need
to
have
some
sort
of
mechanism
in
place
to
track
that
just
goes
without
saying.
As
far
as
I'm
concerned,
commissioner
panneau
is
this
something
that
the
audit
subcommittee
would
be
effective
at
taking
forward
for
us
to
have
a
monthly
audit
from
the
police
department
from
the
mpd
or
the
chief,
whoever
it
needs
to
come
from.
F
That
being
said,
it
sounds
like
there's
definitely
interest
in
this.
I've
heard
it
from
vice
chair
abdi
and
I've
already
written
down
a
note
of
wanting
to
discuss
this
in
the
audit
subcommittee.
F
As
far
as
the
you
know,
the
procedure,
the
mechanisms
of
this
ghost,
we
would
frankly
start
with
the
inspiration
from
our
presenters
here
today
and
encourage
a
research
and
study
grounded
on
our
own
research
and
making
sure
that
you
know
it.
There
are
some
avenues
where
we
as
pcoc
members-
and
you
know
an
entity
housed
within
the
department
of
civil
rights,
might
be
able
to
answer
some
of
these
questions
in
due
course.
So
I'm
definitely
interested
in
bringing
this
up
in
the
audit
subcommittee.
F
It
sounds
like
there
are
multiple
commissioners
here
who
are
interested
in
taking
personal
investment
into
this
kind
of
leading
the
charge.
If
you
will
so
we
can
definitely
I
mean
whether
the
commission
wants
to
make
a
formal
motion
of
it
for
something
you
know.
Some
sort
of
research
and
study
to
you
know
be
referred
to
the
audit
subcommittee
more
than
happy
to
have
someone
make
that
motion
and
it
sounds
like
we're
we're
getting
such
a
recommendation
from
the
clerk
on
that.
B
E
E
Yeah,
thank
you,
madam
chair.
Everything,
commissioner
pino
says,
is
correct.
In
terms
of,
I
think
the
recommended
strategy
is
that,
with
a
motion
passed
by
a
vote
of
this
body,
there
would
be
created
a
new
body
of,
and
forgive
me
if
I'm
getting
it
wrong.
Commissioner,
pino
mentioned
it
several
times,
but
this
body
has
in
its
procedures
or
bylaws
a
research
and
study
project.
This
is
a
perfect
example
of
a
research
and
project
study.
E
I
would
also
encourage
you
within
that
motion,
and
maybe
we
can
just
assume
that
commissioner
pino's
motion
is
before
the
group,
which
is
that
this
be
identified
as
a
subject
matter
of
research
and
study.
That
would
be
referred
to
the
audit
committee.
Since
he's
already
said,
he
wants
to
have
it
at
his
next
meeting,
but
I
would
also
encourage
you
that
you
would
invite
the
mayor's
office
and
representatives
of
npd
also
to
engage
in
that
study
to
get
input
from
them.
E
I
know
that
we
met
recently
jared
jeffries,
the
mayor's
policy
aid
on
public
safety,
and
so
it
may
be
him
or
perhaps
another
aide
from
the
mayor's
office
who
is
engaged
and
also
representation
from
mpd,
to
respond
to
some
of
the
questions
and
concerns
and
to
participate
with
with
with
this
body,
through
whatever
agency,
it
decides
to
delegate
that
work
to
in
bringing
forward
recommendations
to
the
full
body
that
then
could
be
acted
on
in
terms
of
setting
forth
the
course
of
ongoing
action.
B
Okay,
would
anybody
like
to
make
that
motion?
If
not,
I
will.
B
That
we
asked
commissioner
pineau
to
establish
a
research
and
study
subgroup
to
the
audit
subcommittee
and
that
working
with
john
and
sarah
from
st
thomas,
the
the
chief
and
I'm
sorry,
I
forget
who
else
you
said.
B
That
we
absolutely
make
this
part
of
our
body
of
work
going
forward.
I
B
B
This
gives
us
really
something
to
sink
our
teeth
into,
and
possibly
we
can
do
what
we're
supposed
to
do
and
do
some
oversight
and
make
some
policy
change
recommendations.
B
B
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you
so
much
for
bringing
this
to
us.
Okay,
with
that,
we
will
take
up
unfinished
business
and
the
first
item
underneath.
A
A
B
B
I
also
see
that
commissioner
jacobson
has
her
hand
raised,
so
I
would
give
you
the
opportunity.
I
I'm
sorry
I
tried
to
get
it
in
there
quicker,
that's,
okay!
I
was
just
going
to
say
that
what
we
might
also
want
to
include
is
learning
platforms.
How
are
we
going
to
include
this
in
training
to
make
sure
that
public
safety
is
aware
of
the
changes
that
are
being
suggested?
You
know
how
easy
will
it
be
to
make
sure
that
they
are
going
to
like?
Is
this
something
that
should
go
to
the
post
board,
or
is
this
something
that
should
go
to
one
of
the
other
training
mechanisms?
I
B
Okay,
thank
you.
Does
anybody
have
a
response
to
that?
I
think.
Actually,
if
we
make
a
policy
change,
then
the
manual
would
be
updated
to
reflect
that
and
police
officers
will
be
made.
It
aware.
B
B
B
B
On
that,
I
apologize
mrs
brock,
if
you
would
take
a.
D
I
I
H
E
Lisa,
I'm
sorry
hold
up
one
more
minute.
Commissioner
sylvester
was
kicked
out
of
the
meeting
he
just
called
back
in
so
if
we
can
give
him
a
minute
to
reestablish
that
connection,
I'm
pretty
sure
he'll
want
to
vote
on
this
issue.
So
can
you
call
his
name.
B
Right,
thank
you.
Everybody
again.
I
pro
apologize
for
trying
to
rush
ahead,
so
I
think
now
we're
at
the
time
where
we
can
take
up
unfinished
business
and
the
first
item
under
unfinished
business
is
the
presentation
of
our
case
summaries.
So
before
we
take
up
the
item,
I'd
like
to
recognize,
mr
carl,
for
a
brief
update
on
this
particular
item.
E
Thank
you,
madam
chair
again,
and
to
all
the
commissioners.
I
first
want
to
express
my
apologies.
During
the
public
comment
period.
Mr
turchik
rightly
noted
that
there
have
been
problems
not
just
for
this
meeting,
but
most
of
the
meetings
we've
had
at
least
this
year
getting
case
summaries
completed
in
a
timely
basis,
getting
the
accurate
case
summary
files
to
you
on
an
adequate
basis
where
you
can
make
decisions
about
that.
E
I
took
the
liberty
of
reaching
out
to
chair
jackson
last
week
and
discussed
with
her
my
concerns
and
if,
if
I
can
speak
for
you
briefly,
miss
miss
madam
chair,
what
we
discussed
is
possibly
changing
the
way
we've
done
this
before.
I
think,
if
we
can
have
a
a
way
of
getting
an
accurate
case
list
of
summaries,
that
we
send
out
to
all
commissioners
between
the
public
meetings
and
then
petition
you
to
let
us
know
which
of
those
you
want.
E
We
can
then
the
clerks
work
with
the
chair
to
identify
those
cases
that
the
majority
of
commissioners
have
identified.
We
can
send
that
information
back
out
to
commissioners
before
the
meeting
so
that
when
the
agenda
is
posted,
it's
fair
and
accurate.
It
has
the
accurate
summaries.
The
staff
is
prepared
to
come
and
speak
to
those,
and
we
don't
have
the
back
and
forth
of
correcting
the
list
and
updating
the
list
and
then
having
these
these
issues
that
we've
been
having
for
the
last
few
months.
E
Certainly
that's
a
change
in
process
and
change
is
not
always
easy
or
smooth,
but
I'm
committed
to
making
that
process
work,
and
my
suggestion
was
to
the
chair
that
we
defer
until
next
month
the
case
summaries
that
were
supposed
to
be
done
tonight
and
that
between
now
and
the
next
month
we
go
ahead
and
pick
three
more
summaries,
so
that
we're
two
months
in
and
we
have
that
publicly
available.
We
know
it
and
then
also
going
forward.
E
We
would
have
much
more
advanced
time
between
the
meetings
because
we
basically
would
have
may
and
june
all
picked
and
ready
before
the
may
agenda
is
even
published
and
we
would
always
be
one
full
month
ahead
of
time.
That
way,
not
only
commissioners
but
the
public
who
obviously
have
an
interest
in
tracking
the
work
of
this
body
would
all
have
access
to
that
information
well
in
advance
of
the
meetings,
not
just
48
hours
in
front
of
a
meeting.
So
I
know
that's
a
change.
E
I
know
that
means
we're
not
ready
to
deal
with
those
issues
tonight
I
apologize
for
that
sincerely,
but
I'd
rather
give
the
clerks
and
the
civil
rights
staff
a
chance
to
perfect
this
system
that
doesn't
seem
to
work
well
and
it's
frustrating
for
all
of
you
and
for
staff,
and
so
again
with
apologies,
that's
my
recommendation
to
you,
madam
chair,
and
to
you,
commissioners,
that
we
would
take
this
chance
to
to
fix
this
process,
and
hopefully
by
may
you'll,
see
a
vast
improvement
and
we
can
carry
that
forward.
B
Any
comments
or
discussion
about
what
mr
carl
has
brought.
B
Okay,
so
it.
N
Commission
sorry,
I
did
have
one
question.
Okay,
I
was
wondering
as
part
of
the
the
new
process
would
the
list
of
ten
cases
that
we
are
looking
at
become
public
as
well
or
would
it
just
be
the
three
cases
that
we
we
choose
or
just
wondering,
what's
going
to
be
available
to
the
public
beyond
us
in
the
new
process,
or
is
that
something
we're
figuring.
B
Think
out,
I
I
think
that
in
our
discussion
that
the
the
same
10
case
summaries
will
be
available
to
the
public,
but
the
commission
will
choose
the
three
that
we
choose.
I
mean
that
we
decide
that
we
want
to
discuss.
E
Madam
chair,
yes,
and
to
commissioner
of
our
specific
question,
the
list
of
all
10
options
or
cases
that
were
presented
is
and
would
continue
to
be,
public
data
posted
with
the
agenda
right.
B
Thank
you.
So,
basically,
what
we're
doing
is
just
suggesting
a
process
change
for
our
case
selection,
so
I'm
going
to
propose
that
the
opcr
staff
provide
our
clerk
with
the
list
of
case
synopsis
in
advance
of
each
regular
meeting
so
that
she
can
distribute
that
list
to
commissioners
and
pull
them
via
smartsheet.
Regarding
our
selections,
I
will
then
coordinate
the
final
selection
process
as
chair
with
the
clerk
and
those
selections
will
be
posted
in
the
meeting
agenda
and
provided
in
advance
to
all
commissioners.
B
It's
my
belief
in
clerk
carl's
belief
that
this
process
change
would
allow
commissioners
more
time
to
make
their
selections,
which
I
strongly
agree
with,
and
also
to
improve
our
efficiency
for
how
we
go
about
this
process.
So
are
there
any
other
questions
or
discussion.
B
I'm
trying
to
wait
to
see
if
a
hand
pops
up
on
me
unexpectedly,
okay,
so
I
want
to
thank
you,
my
colleagues,
and
with
that
I'd
like
to
post.
M
Sylvester
think
no
I'm
sorry.
I
just
wanted
to
say
if
you,
I
trust
your
leadership
on
this.
This
sounds
like
if,
if
you're
for
this
george
accident,
I'm
for
this,
I
think
you've
convinced
me.
B
B
B
Don't
think
no
motion,
no
vote.
Okay,
so
I
think
we've
pretty
much
discussed
our
ideas
and
feelings
about
postponing
those
summaries.
Okay,
so
thank
you.
Commissioners.
It's
been
a
pleasure
without
objection.
I
will
direct
the
clerk
to
make
those.
A
B
A
I
was,
I
just
wanted
to
remind
you.
You
had
some
new
business.
B
Some
new
business
right,
okay,
I
was
just
saying
without
objection,
I'd
like
to
direct
the
clerk
to
make
those
changes
in
the
case
summary
selection
process
and
to
postpone
tonight's
summaries
to
the
may
meeting
all
right.
Now
we
have
one
final
thing
on
our
agenda
tonight:
some
new
business
and
I'm
going
to
hand
that
over
to
commissioner
pineau,
to
tell
us
about
that.
F
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
if
the
the
clerk
has
not
already
done
so,
I
do
believe
the
commissioners
have
received
the
draft
letter
that
is
appearing
on
the
screen
for
public
view.
Now.
This
is
an
open
letter
to
police
chief
arredondo
regarding
the
minneapolis
police
department,
response
to
mass
demonstrations
of
public
protest
and
just
a
brief
background
of
how
this
came
into
being
a
draft
letter.
F
F
This
was
instigated
off
of
a
concern
that
police
responses
were,
as
as
the
response
says
in
the
first
paragraph
hold
on
hold
on,
don't
move
anticipation
of
protests.
F
And
horrible
at
reading
and
it'll
be
too
slow,
but
basically
the
police
response
to
public
protests
in
2020
had
accusations
that
police
responded
in
a
manner
that
was
unprofessional
or
questionable
by
other
civilians
viewpoints.
F
This
was
reported
on
in
star
tribune
in
other
instances,
and
it
was
of
concern
to
us
enough
that,
in
light
of
the
current
trial
of
former
minneapolis
police
department
officer,
derek
chovin,
that
there
may
be
more
demonstrations
of
public
protests
and
therefore
more
police
responses,
and
obviously,
if
the
past
couple
days
have
not
been
enough,
there
have
been
more
reasons
as
to
why
there
would
be
public
demonstrations
and
police
responses
to
them.
F
So
we,
as
an
audit
committee,
decided
to
put
together
this
public
letter.
I
want
to
be
very
clear
before
we
go
into
the
letter.
This
does
not
in
any
way
have
us
as
the
pcoc
specifically
telling
minneapolis
police
department
how
to
respond
particular
strategies.
We
are.
We
have
not
done
a
study
ourselves
to
be
able
to
have
the
confidence
or
evidence
to
be
able
to
recommend
particular
things
like
that.
F
However,
we
can
effectively
and
quickly
encourage
minneapolis
police
department
and
chief
aerodondo
to
look
at
advice
and
recommendations
of
academic
and
experts
in
the
field
that
have
already
written
on
this
said
topic,
not
particularly
about
minneapolis
but
other
similar
instances,
either
in
recent
history
or
in
general,
about
mass
demonstrations,
and
it
was
with
that
sort
of
spirit
in
mind.
We
wrote
this
letter
to
briefly
summarize
it
paragraph
by
paragraph.
F
Essentially,
it
is
saying
precisely
what
I
kind
of
mentioned
in
the
very
beginning
of
the
first
paragraph
and
then
most
notably
bringing
chief
eridando's
attention
to
a
2015
department
of
justice
office
of
community
oriented
policing
services
report,
in
which
a
section
of
that-
and
we
reference
only
chapter.
Eight
of
this
section
details,
findings
and
recommendations
for
improving
responses
to
protests
and
mass
demonstration
for
st
louis
county
police
department
in
response
to
the
shooting
of
michael
brown,
and
we
pulled
a
particular
passage
from
that
chapter.
F
Focusing
on
what
the
reporters
believe
is
a
softer
approach
to
disorderly
crowds
commonly
referred
to
as
the
vancouver,
boston
or
british
model,
where
officers
are
in
what's
defined
as
soft
uniforms,
not
riot
gear
for
colloquial
terms
and
interacting
with
protesters
in
a
respectful
and
positive
manner,
and
actually,
in
this
report,
they
write
about
how
this
has
a
a
significant
impact
on
how
the
crowd
reacts
and
responds
to
officers.
Even
when
there
are
situations
that
call
in
that
more
militaristic
response.
F
In
addition
to
that
main
article
that
we
primarily
focus
on,
we
reference
a
series
of
peer-reviewed
research
that
get
at
trying
to
understand
crowd
dynamics
during
mass
demonstrations,
and
we
encourage
chief
erdogando
to
look
at
these
studies
and
determine
for
himself
based
on
his
own
knowledge
or
the
knowledge
of
those
around
him.
How
well
those
evidence-based
pieces
of
academic
literature
might
better
inform
their
own
strategies
in
an
internal
context.
F
We
and
I'll
save
from
reading
the
exact
quotes,
but
basically
it
is
trying
to
get
at
this
idea
of
fair
and
effective
policing
really
has
a
indirect
methods
that
already
encourage
people
to
comply
voluntarily
with
the
law,
rather
than
you
know,
creating
an
adversarial
relationship
between
law
enforcement
and
those
who
are
protesting.
F
Finally,
we
we
added
in
another
piece,
particularly
because
of
a
number
of
instances
in
the
twin
cities,
where
there
was
use
of
chemical
irritants
or
what
is
deemed
less
than
lethal
ammunition,
such
as
rubber
bullets.
We
wanted
to
bring
into
this
sort
of
conversation
quickly,
referencing
two
such
academic
articles,
respectively,
on
each
of
those
strategies
and
more
along
the
lines
of
their
health
impacts
to
people
who
end
up
receiving
that
type
of
you
know
action
upon
them.
That's
that's!
F
Basically
it
rather
than
just
reading
the
whole
thing
to
you.
I
apologize
if
we
didn't
go
into
too
much
detail
on
that,
but
again
feel
free
to
take
time.
Read
this
and
I'd
love
to
hear
what
the
rest
of
the
commission
has
to
say.
C
Thank
you.
I'd
just
like
to
thank
commissioner
pino
for
putting
this
together
and
for
your
group
for
putting
this
together.
It's
very
timely
and
I
appreciate
it.
I
certainly
support
it
and-
and
I
would
like
to
offer
one
personal
anecdote.
You
know
understanding.
C
This
is
not
a
research
and
study
yet,
but
just
offering
a
personal
anecdote
that
when
police
officers
shot
dalal
id
here
in
south
minneapolis,
I
actually
lived
just
a
few
blocks
away
from
where
that
happened,
and
there
was
a
demonstration
that
evening-
and
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
everybody
was
just
it
was
it
felt
like
we
were
all
sitting
on
a
powder
keg
and
this
situation
could
explode
at
any
moment
and
officers.
C
You
could
hear
on
the
radios,
the
the
the
rank
and
file
officers
were
asking
to
use
their
pepper
spray
and
they
were
asking
to
use
gas,
and
I
don't
know
who
said
no,
but
you
know
from
on
top
someone
said
no
and
they
did
not
use
chemical
irritants
and
it
remained
a
peaceful
evening
and
eventually
the
crowd
dispersed
and
went
away
so
yeah.
C
B
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Sarah
for
bringing
that
up,
commissioner
jacobson.
I
Hi,
so
I
think
for
me
I
would
like
to
so
I
in
just
like
commissioner
sarah.
Thank
you,
commissioner
pino.
This
was
a
lot
of
research,
especially
if
you
had
to
go
through
everything
yourself
pulling
out
all
of
the
the
highlights
in
the
article.
I
think,
though,
for
me,
I
would
have
to
say
that
I
would
like
to
push
forward
with
recommending
that
minneapolis
looks
for
some
sort
of
consulting
some
sort
of
advice
from
professionals
in
regards
to
peaceful
protesting
and
how
to
deal
with
how
to
handle
that.
I
But
I'm
not
sure
if
I
can
necessarily
support
it
around
this
specific
article,
because
I
personally
haven't
read
the
article
and
I'm
not
familiar
with
the
experts
in
the
article.
So
that's
something
that
I
feel
like.
We
should
probably
take
some
time
for
the
rest
of
us
to
research
more
or
at
least
for
myself.
H
F
Hey-
and
I
totally
understand
that-
that's
why
I
put
the
footnotes
down
there
and
I
even
put
the
urls
I'm
fairly
certain
all,
but
one
is
publicly
available.
F
Yeah
and
the
one
that
it
is,
I
tried
very
hard
just
to
pull
from
the
publicly
available
abstract
and
dig
no
deeper
into
it.
So
when
you
do
your
research
you'll
see
what
it
is,
but
as
far
as
the
main
portion
of
that
the
department
of
justice
cops
program,
article
that's
fully
available
and
again
because
I
know
there
are
people
who
are
looking
at
it
and
they're,
probably
familiar
with
the
doj
cops
report.
F
I'm
not
talking
about
the
one
that
was
in
february,
I'm
talking
about
the
one
that
is
in
september,
and
I'm
talking
about
only
chapter
eight
of
that
report,
because
that
is
the
one
on
police
response
to
mass
demonstration.
If
we
want
to
talk
about
a
larger
scope
of
that,
we
can.
But
that
is
not
necessarily
the
subject
of
this.
F
B
If
we
are
finished
with
discussion
on
this
commissioner
pineau
and
mr
clark
and
miss
brock,
I
think
I
would
like
to
table
this
until
may
to
give
us
all
an
opportunity
to
to
go
and
read
the
articles
and
the
research
that
you've
done
so
that
we
can
all
be
up
to
speed.
And
on
the
same
page,
I
think
that
that's
a
a
excellent
suggestion,
commissioner
jacobson
and
commissioner
sarah.
I
see
your
hand.
C
If
we
table
it,
I
wonder
if
the
group
would
support
in
some
way
notifying
the
chief
that
this
is
happening,
so
the
chief
would
have
the
opportunity
to
review
these
sources
or,
to
perhaps
he's
he's
already
read
them
a
million
times,
and
he
knows
them
by
heart,
or
you
know
just
just
to
kind
of
apprise
him
of
the
fact
that
we're
discussing
this
in
may.
Yes,.
H
Yeah,
I
just
wanted
to
echo
commissioner
sarah's
comments.
I
think
the
timeline
is
here
with
the
trial
is
really
important
and
we
wanted
to
get
something
in
front
of
the
mayor
right
away.
So
I
mean,
if
commissioners
feel
strongly
about
tabling
it.
That's
fine
but
it'd
be
nice
to
get
something
in
front
of
the
in
front
of
the
mayor.
If,
for
no
other
reason.
F
H
M
I
think
this
issue
obviously
warrants
more
more
discussion
of
the
study
from
us,
but
in
the
timely
manner
that
you
know
you're
putting
this
forward
right
now.
I
think
largely
just
making
people
aware
that
there
are
other
resources
out
there
about
this
issue
and
I
think
that's
super
valuable
right
now.
I
think
this
is
a
great
piece
of
the
overall
discussion,
a
great
addition
to
the
overall
discussion
right
now,
and
I
I
fully
support
putting
this
letter
out
under
our
name.
B
Okay,
so
I
think
our
consensus
is
that
we
want
to
send
something
immediately
to
notify
the
chief
of
what
we're
doing,
but
then
to
table
the
actual.
What
what
are
we
tabling.
F
Yeah
I
mean,
if
I
could,
I
and-
and
I
totally
understand
the
reservation
to
wanna
you
know,
but
if
the
roles
were
reversed
and
someone
says
hey,
I
did
the
research
for
you
and
we
want
to
send
this
out
right
now.
I
would
say:
well
I
want
to
look
at
the
research,
so
I
I
totally
get
that
I'm
just
I'm
thinking
about
it
from
the
perspective
of
reaching
out
to
the
police
chief
and
I'm
essentially
gonna,
say
in
a
less
formal
way.
F
Hey
look
at
these.
You
know
so
I'll.
Just
put
that
out
there.
I
am
by
no
means
trying
to
say
you
know
just
push
it
through
cause,
I
get
it.
People
are
gonna,
put
their
names
onto
something,
so
I
totally
understand,
but
I
I
I
am
also
of
the
mindset
that
if
we
really
care
enough
and-
and
I
think
it's
totally
fair
to
do
so-
that
we
want
to
wait
on
this-
it's
okay
to
wait
on
it.
F
You
know
I
mean
we're
we're
having
a
public
conversation
about
it
right
now,
it's
very
possible
that
the
police
chief
will
hear
about
this
through
either
a
concerned.
Member
of
our
community-
or
maybe
someone
on
staff
already
is,
is
listening
in.
I
don't
know,
but
this
is
a
public
conversation.
F
It's
not
like
we're
doing
this
in
a
closed
room,
so
I
am
totally
okay.
If
we
want
to
wait
on
this,
let's
just
wait
on
it
and
then,
when
everyone
feels
prepared
and
comfortable
we'll
have
a
vote
either
that
or
we
could
just
have
a
vote
right
now,
but
I
don't
really
want
to
put
anybody
in
that
kind
of
position
of
saying
we're
voting
on
this
and
if
you
say
no,
then
you'll
get
on
the
letter
anyway.
That
sort
of
thing
feels
wrong.
B
I'm
kind
of
thinking
that
maybe
we
do
want
to
send
this
to
the
chief's
office
and
then
invite
him
to
join
us
vocally,
visibly
for
may's
meeting
so
that
we
can
discuss
this
further.
Then
that
would
give
us
all
all
the
commissioners
an
opportunity
to
read
the
articles
to
see
what
what
commissioner
pineau
has
researched
and
what
he's
brought
to
us
tonight.
I
see
your
hand
up
mr
carl.
E
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
Just
following
up
on
your
excellent
suggestion.
As
I
noted
at
the
beginning
with
your
approval,
this
body
has
agreed
that
we
would
postpone
the
discussion
of
coaching
and,
as
I
noted,
both
chief
arredondo
and
or
assistant
chief
halverson
have
agreed.
They
would
be
present,
so
they'll
be
at
the
main
meeting.
E
So
if,
if
it
is
the
commission's
consensus
that
we
should
send
submit-
and
I
would
label
this
a
draft
commissioner
pino-
that
this
is
a
draft
that
that
the
body
is
discussing,
it
identifies
several
important
issues
that
they
would
like
to
weigh
in
on.
In
terms
of
the
policy
oversight
perspective
of
this
body
and
we're
submitting
the
draft
in
advance
for
your
careful
consideration
would
like
to
discuss
it
with
you
at
the
may
meeting
as
an
item
of
business
before
taking
a
formal
vote,
that
this
is
the
position
of
the
body.
F
I'm
comfortable
with
that
as
long
as
commissioner
jacobson,
who
originally
brought
up
that
concern,
because
I
I
don't
wanna,
you
know
steamroll
this
in
any
way.
So
I
would
love
to
hear
your
opinion,
commissioner.
Jacobson.
B
Well
then,
I
move
to
go
ahead
and
notify
the
chief's
office
that
this
is
a
draft,
that
this
is
absolutely
what
we
are
considering
and
that
we
would
like
to
continue
this
discussion
with
him
in
our
may
meeting.
So
I
don't
know,
mr
carl
do
I
I
do
I
need
of.
We
do
need
to
take
a
vote
correct
whether
this
is
going
to
be
our
course
of
action,
or
do
we
need.
We
do
not.
Okay,.
E
B
I'm
directing
our
commission
to
move
forward
with
this.
In
that
way,
do
we
have
anything
else?
Anybody
want
to
make
like
a
burning
desire,
type
comment,
question
I
think
we've
had
an
excellent
meeting
tonight.
You
guys.
B
Okay,
so
with
that,
we've
concluded
all
the
items
in
our
agenda
for
this
meeting,
and
I
will
see
everyone
back
here
next
month
for
our
next
regular
meeting,
which
will
be
may
the
11th
and
seeing
no
further
business
to
come
before
us
and
without
objection.
I
will
declare
this
meeting
adjourned.