►
From YouTube: July 13, 2021 Police Conduct Oversight Commission
Description
Additional information at
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov
B
B
The
city
will
be
recording
and
posting
this
meeting
to
the
city's
website
and
youtube
channel
as
a
means
of
increasing
public
access
and
transparency.
This
meeting
is
public
and
subject
to
the
minnesota
open
meeting
law
at
this
time.
I'll
ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
role,
so
we
can
verify
a
quorum
for
this
meeting.
C
D
D
D
B
D
D
D
F
B
B
G
B
We
go
next
order
of
business.
Is
the
acceptance
of
public
comments,
I'm
now
opening
the
floor
and
inviting
comments
from
the
community.
We
do
limit
public
comment
period
to
no
more
than
two
minutes
per
speaker
with
that.
Are
there
any
community
members
here
tonight
that
would
wish
to
address
the
commission?
I
want
to
remind
you
to
press
star
six
to
unmute
yourself
and
say
your
name
for
the
record.
H
H
I
don't
know
quite
how
the
pcoc
can
address
this,
but
it's
an
outstanding
issue
that
has
been
frustrating
for
a
long
long
time
that
there
is
no
no
analysis
of
what
went
wrong
in
past
officer-involved
shootings,
our
friend
chuck
churchik,
I
don't
believe,
is
on
the
line
because
he
has
a
problem
with
his
home
phone
line.
So
he
would
definitely
bring
to
your
attention
that
he
has
been
letting
the
public
safety
committee
know.
For
now.
H
It's
been
360
days
since
the
city
council
directed
the
public
safety
committee
to
discuss
after
action
reviews
of
officer
involved,
shooting
and
to
this
day
the
public
safety
committee
has
never
put
that
on
their
agenda.
They've
simply
ignored
it,
and
so
I
don't
know
what
the
pcoc
can
do,
but
somebody
needs
to
do
something.
H
I
don't
fully
understand
and
wish
I'd
heard
the
presentation
already,
but
how
those
cases
are
going
to
be
selected,
but
if
it's
based
on
what
I
sort
of
heard
that
well
we'll
select
cases
based
on
their
percentage
in
the
population
of
cases
for
a
particular
issue.
But
if
that
means
that
say
just
randomly,
we
say,
10
of
the
cases
involve
police
cars.
Idling
excessively.
H
Does
that
mean
that
the
pcoc
wants
to
hear
10
percent
of
the
cases
about
that
issue?
It
was
important
that
the
pcoc
be
able
to
vote
to
hear
more
information
on
the
cases
that
are
of
greatest
interest
to
you
and
of
greatest
interest
to
the
public.
So
I'm
not
sure
how
that
works,
but
I
think
that
may
be
a
concern
you
should
raise.
Thank
you
very
much.
B
B
B
E
E
I
have
been
notified
that
a
draft
has
recently
been
completed
and
we'll
be
discussing
that
in
our
upcoming
meeting
later
this
month.
In
addition
to
that,
we
had
a
conversation
about
coaching
as
well
we're
beginning
our
methodology,
development
of
that
topic.
It's
a
little
bit
longer
of
a
process
there,
but
we
have
begun
it
and
we're
looking
forward
to
digging
in
deep
on
on
both
of
those
topics.
Those
are
the
two
that
have
been
referred
to
our
subcommittee
and
we're
eager
to
keep
the
ball
rolling
on
both
of
them.
B
C
Thank
you
good
evening.
We
had
two
speakers
at
our
last
meeting.
The
first
well
excuse
me
three
speakers
on
two
topics.
First,
we
had
two
speakers
on
the
topic
of
immigration
and
its
relationship
to
misdemeanors,
but
generally
arrests
and
policing.
We
had
veena
iyer
from
the
immigrant
law
center
of
minnesota
and
we
had
michelle
rivero
from
who
is
the
director
of
immigrant
refugee
affairs.
Here
in
the
city
of
minneapolis,
they
gave
a
great
presentation
provided
a
lot
of
very
useful
information.
C
That's
going
to
be
informative
to
our
work
on
misdemeanors
as
we're
kind
of
moving
forward
with
that
research
and
trying
to
formulate
our
our
our
policy
ideas
and
and
issues
we
would
like
to
bring
to
the
full
commission.
Ms
iyer
had
several
questions
for
us.
She
said
they
weren't
formal
asks.
She
would
like
some
time
to
kind
of
kind
of
nail
down
her
questions
or
make
a
more
formal
ask
for
a
more
formal
presentation
to
this
body,
which
makes
perfect
sense
to
me.
C
I
had
an
idea
that
maybe
someone
from
this
commission,
perhaps
someone
who
is
an
immigration
law,
attorney
and
expert,
would
be
willing
to
sit
down
with
ms
rivero
and
miss
ire,
and
you
know
just
talk
through
some
issues
and
maybe
bring
a
formal
presentation
or
a
formal
request
or
a
formal
proposal
to
the
full
body
so
that
we
could
consider
it,
and
I
don't
mean
to
put
anyone
on
the
spot.
But
we
do
have
an
immigration
law
expert
on
our
commission,
we're
very
lucky
in
that
way.
C
So
that
was
one
point
to
bring
up
and
then
our
second
presentation
was
by
mr
bicking,
who
I
believe
is,
I
hope,
is
still
on
the
phone.
So
he
can
keep
me
honest
about
what
he
presented.
He
discussed
arbitration
generally
and
he
sort
of
focused
on
the
reasons
that
the
city
has
lost
in
the
past
in
arbitration,
meaning
the
chief
took
some
action,
usually
a
termination,
and
it
was
appealed
all
the
way
up
to
arbitration
and
the
arbitrator
overturned.
C
C
It's
actually
very
simple:
it's
just
a
paragraph
that
would
appear
in
disciplinary,
like
the
discipline
matrix
or
a
document
provided
to
all
the
police
department,
informing
every
officer,
hey.
We
are
hitting
reset
today,
even
if
this
conduct
hasn't
been
disciplined
or
recognized
in
the
past
moving
forward.
C
He
mentioned
that
chief
axtell
used
this
in
saint
paul
and
it-
and
it
has
worked
as
far
as
we
know
for
saint
paul,
and
it
appears
that
minneapolis
also
did
that
in
2018.
It
appears
that
chief
rondo
did
make
a
disciplinary
reset
in
the
2018
disciplinary
matrix.
It's
again
just
a
simple
paragraph
that
says
we're
hitting
reset
essentially
from
today
forward.
This
is
the
matrix,
and
these
are
the
standards
and
everyone
will
be
expected
to
follow
it.
C
C
C
If
not,
it
sounds
like
they
were
amenable
to
it.
Since
it
appeared
in
the
draft
document,
would
they
be
immutable
to
it
now?
And
the
second
question
is
concerning
the
times
when
the
city
has
lost
an
arbitration,
the
city
has
had
its
decisions
overturned
10
times
since
2005.
I
believe
so.
It's
only
10
decisions.
C
This
commission
reviewed
one
such
decision
last
year
when
commissioner
pino
and
I
were
on
the
commission,
so
we
would
need
to
see
the
other
nine.
What
I
would
like
to
do
is
make
a
motion
and
have
discussion
to
see
if
the
full
commission
would
like
to
direct
staff
to
provide
all
10
of
those
decisions
to
the
pmp
subcommittee
for
us
to
review
and
do
kind
of
a
root
cause
analysis
like
hey,
what's
really
going
on
here.
Is
there
something
we
can
fix?
C
I
don't
know
what
you
know,
language
in
the
matrix,
that's
causing
a
problem,
a
certain.
You
know
what
what
could
be
the
root
cause
and
what
specific
recommendations
could
we
make
around
arbitration
so
that
we
get
better
results?
And,
mr
bicking,
if
I
hope
I
I
hope
I
summarized
your
presentation
fully.
B
H
B
B
I
think
I
I
think
I
would
absolutely
like
to
follow
up
with
that
request
to
direct
those
materials
be
provided
to
your
sub
community
subcommittee
subcommittee,
I'm
having
a
really
wicked
ugly
day
guys.
I
can't
wait
till
this
meeting's
over
I'm
just
so
afraid.
I'm
gonna
embarrass
myself,
okay,
so
enough,
anyone
else
have
another
remark,
or
I
saw
some
heads
nodding
like
you
wanted
to
say
something.
B
C
B
B
B
D
F
F
B
Okay,
that
means
our
vote.
I
mean
the
motion
passes
now
I
will
direct
the
clerk
to
receive
file
the
reports
at
this
time.
I
think
that
I
would
like
to
ask
andrew
hawkins
to
address
some
questions
that
the
pco
body
has
about
the
use
of
stipends
and
the
possibility
of
us
using
it
for
different
things
related
to
our
committees.
Our.
I
A
B
Do
can
I
ask
the
question
now
or
is
that
what
you
prefer,
okay,
so
in
in
some
different
discussions,
a
few
of
us
have
asked
since
we,
like
most
of
us,
aren't
requesting
those
stipends
that
I'm
aware
of
I
know
I
haven't.
I
did
one
time
and
never
received
it.
So
I
just
thought:
oh
fuli,
you
know,
but
the
question
is:
can
we
request
them
retroactively
and
then,
once
once
we
receive
our
funds,
then
are
we
allowed
to
use
those?
I
You
know
we're
in
the
middle
of
the
year-
and
this
is
you
know
a
newer
group
like
I
don't
have
any
issue
whatsoever
with
anybody
putting
in
the
retroactive
stuff
and
we'll
make
sure
that
it's
taken
care
of
I'll
connect
with
one
of
our
staff,
people
that
can
coordinate
the
process
as
far
as
what
you're
able
to
do
with
it.
Yet
I
think
you
covered
it
perfectly.
It's
like
once
that
money's
in
your
account.
That
is
your
money
and
you
do
it.
B
B
J
There's
no
connection
to
efforts
by
this
body
to
really
touch
on
specific
policies.
Cases
are
just
sort
of
a
buckshot
approach,
and
so
the
staff
agree
with
all
of
that
we
have
between
the
opcr
city
clerk
city
attorney,
have
met
and
discussed
the
process
that
we
think
would
actually
provide.
More
of
that
continuity
between
monthly
presentations
would
allow
us
to
work
with
the
pcoc
to
say:
where
are
the
areas
of
policy?
You
are
most
wanting
to
focus
or
concentrate
your
efforts.
J
J
Well,
this
month
we
heard
about
these
things
that
maybe
even
the
three
cases
aren't
related
and
the
next
month
it's
three
new
cases,
so
there
was
intentionality
in
terms
of
coming
up
with
the
outcomes
being
a
more
consistent,
thoughtful
process
that
supports
the
policy,
spheres
or
spheres
of
policy
areas
of
policy
concentration
that
this
body
wants
to
explore
or
to
or
to
press
more
deeply
into.
So
I
think
that's
what
mr
hawkins
will
be
presenting
to
you.
J
I
think,
there's
a
very
short
presentation
that
will
summarize
what
we
are
proposing
at
a
conceptual
level
and
I'll
frame
that
also,
at
this
point
it's
very
conceptual.
We
have
not
taken
the
time
to
do
the
detailed
legs
under
each
of
those
processes,
because
if
this
body
is
not
interested
in
the
concept
that
we're
proposing,
then
there's
no
point
of
us
coming
up
with
the
very
detailed
implementation
plans,
and
so
at
this
point,
what
we
wanted
to
do
was
present
sort
of
the
conceptual
framing.
J
That
we
think
would
be
an
improved
process
for
this
body
and
for
the
staff
working
to
support
those
efforts
and
then,
with
your
approval,
we
would
be
able
to
move
forward
in
terms
of
okay.
What
does
that
take?
What's
the
timing?
When
would
you
expect
to
see
the
results?
How
would
those
reports
be
presented?
What
would
the
monthly
discussions
look
like
what
would
follow-up
be
from
month
to
month,
so
those
pieces
if
we
can
suspend
judgment
and
discussion
about
those
pieces?
A
I
You
lisa
and
just
yeah
really
quickly
from
our
site
too,
like
one
of
the
things.
As
far
as
like
the
auditing
of
case
processes,
I
think
that's
what
we
tried
to
kind
of
focus
on
with
this,
and
you
know
ensure
that
we'd
have
a
representative
sample
of
cases
kind
of
across
the
entire
spectrum
to
present
to
people,
and
so
obviously,
christopher
and
brad
are
going
to
go
into
more
detail
with
that.
I
But
you
know
the
idea
being
that
what
you're
going
to
see
is
sort
of
you
know
reflective
of
the
actual
landscape
of
any
k.
You
know
the
amount
of
cases
that
we
had
and
the
the
relative
proportions
of
cases
that
we
had
within
you
know
any
given
calendar
year.
The
other
thing
that
I
know
had
started
from
staff
a
while
back
that
we're
looking
at
I
mean
we
finally
like
trying
to
get
somebody
that
can
kind
of
focus
on
this.
To
help
us
build
it
out
is
having
a
database.
I
For
you
know
every
single
case
summary
that's
been
presented
up
to
now
is
I
mean
they're
they're,
all
public
they've
been
presented
publicly,
so
we
have
those
and
it's
going
to
be
kind
of
you
know
continuing
on
the
effort.
I
think
I
actually
believe
ryan
patrick
had
worked
a
lot
on
it
too,
like
several
years
ago
to
have
essentially
a
database
where
you
can
go
in
and
you
can
look
at
the
you
know
the
allegation
violation
that
was
alleged
and
so
basically
based
on
the
alleged
violation.
I
If
we,
if
we
do
do
something
new,
when
we
create
something
that
everybody's
in
agreement
with
it's
not,
I
don't
even
consider
it
something
where
it's
like
complete
fresh
start
and
everything
that
happened
goes
away.
It's
like
that's
all
public
that
all
exists,
and
so
I
want
to
make
sure
that's
available
in
a
format.
I
That's
digestible
and
that's
you
know,
that's
searchable
for
people
so
that
we
don't
have
to
start
kind
of
from
scratch
and
wait
until
we're
a
year
or
two
from
you
know
from
now,
so
that
we
have
a
sizeable
population
of
cases
in
any
given
category.
So
that
said,
you've
heard
enough
from
me,
so
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
our
tour
for
case
investigators,
britta
mamiani
and
christopher
band.
K
K
B
L
So
my
name
is
christopher
band.
I
graduated
from
law
school
in
london,
england,
where
I
worked
in
legal
aid:
criminal
defense
for
people
who
are
were
detained
by
the
police
and
then
for
the
past
five
years.
I've
worked
for
the
hennepin
county
attorney's
office
in
community
engagement
before
moving
over
to
opcr.
L
So
just
to
go
over
the
the
current
process,
which
of
course
you
know
all
know
better
than
I
do,
but
the
maximum
current
price
is
a
maximum
of
36
annual
case
summaries.
Those
are
populated
from
cases
closer
than
the
last
365
days.
The
case
selection
is
currently
a
random
selection
of
cases
made
from
the
closed
case
population
just
across
the
board.
K
So,
for
example,
there
could
be
specific
categories
for
allegations
of
discrimination
or
use
of
force,
but
then
there
could
also
be
a
general
category
for
policy
and
procedure
violations,
and
this
general
category
would
then
encompass
a
range
of
violations,
for
example,
failure
to
activate
a
body
camera
or
failure
to
supervise.
So
then
that
general
category
would
have
a
range
within
it.
The
representative
sample
of
the
60
cases
would
then
be
randomly
selected
from
those
violation
categories.
K
K
So
at
the
beginning
of
each
month,
five
case
summaries
will
be
posted
publicly,
and
this
is
in
an
effort
to
facilitate
community
discussion
and
then
next,
I'm
just
going
to
describe
some
of
the
benefits
of
the
proposed
case
summary
process.
So
if
you
want
mine
going
to
the
last
slide,
I
can't
see
it.
K
Next,
the
proposed
process
would
also
utilize
data
driven
selection
procedures
and,
as
I
mentioned
representative
sampling,
to
enhance
the
commission's
auditing
and
then
police
conduct
monitoring
as
well.
The
commission's
ability
to
ensure
police
services
are
delivered
in
a
lawful
and
non-discriminatory
manner
would
also
be
strengthened
because
there
would
be
a
66
increase
in
the
available
case
summary
data
since,
as
I
said,
it
would
move
from
the
five
cases
each
month.
It
would
move
from
the
three
cases.
Excuse
me
to
five
cases.
K
So,
instead
of
a
maximum
of
36
cases
per
year,
you
would
have
60
case
summaries
per
year.
Lastly,
the
commission's
proactive
engagement
with
the
community
would
be
enhanced
by
the
public
posting
of
the
case
summaries
and
the
availability
of
increased
random
and
representative
case
summary
data.
So
that
concludes
my
presentation
of
opcr's
proposed
case
selection
process.
Thank
you
so
much
for
your
time,
chris
and
I
are
happy
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
may
have
about.
The
proposal.
B
Am
I
muted,
I
can't
even
see
it's
not
showing
me
anything.
Can
y'all
hear
me?
Okay,
I
I
do
have
one
question
like
when
the
case
summaries
are
broken
down
into
the
different
categories.
The
like
misconduct
that
falls
under
like
a
certain
policy
will
all
of
the
case.
Summaries
included
in
that
month
be
of
the
same
type
of
misconduct
like
the
same
type
of
complaint,
or
will
they
just
still
be
random,
one-offs
that
just
fit
in
that
category?
B
I
I
the
reason
I'm
asking
is,
I
think
it's
important
for
us
to
have
the
same
all
the
same
kinds
of
summaries.
If
we're
going
to
find
patterns
like
if
we're
just
going
to
be
looking
at
five
different
types
of
misconduct,
complaints
every
month,
then
it's
it's
going
to
be
just
as
difficult
going
forward
with
this,
and
I
might
add
that
I'm
in
favor
of
this,
but
it's
it's
still
going
to
hamper
our
ability
to
identify
patterns
that
we
should
be
addressing.
K
Yes,
thank
you
for
that
comment,
chair
jackson,
so
the
proposal
was
going
to
be
randomly
selected
cases,
but
they
would
be
representative
of
each
category.
So
I
think,
under
that
model,
there's
no
guarantee
that
they
would
all
align,
but
they
would
be
representative
of
the
total
population
of
cases.
C
Thank
you
both
for
his
presentation.
I
think
it's
been
really
helpful
and
I
appreciate
the
thoughtfulness
that
you
you
know
went
about
this.
One
issue
that
we
encountered
prior
to
both
of
you
kind
of
presenting
to
all
this
to
us
is
that
even
when
we
got
the
more
detailed
case
summaries,
so
even
the
60
that
you
would
be
proposing.
C
Even
then
we
didn't
get
enough
information
to
really
do
anything.
You
know,
for
example,
we
didn't
have
even
a
date
range,
and
I
understand
you
can't
identify
certain
individuals,
but
there
wasn't
even
a
date
range.
So
we
couldn't
tell
like.
Are
these
related?
Are
they
happening
way?
Far
apart?
We
don't
understand,
we
didn't
have
location
data,
so
we
couldn't
tell
like.
Is
this
a
problem
in
a
pre-thinked?
Is
this
a
problem
citywide?
C
We
couldn't
tell
that
we
we
just
didn't,
have
enough
information
and
when-
and
so
my
question
is,
what
kind
of
information
is
going
to
be
presented
to
us
in
these
60
case
synopsis?
Is
it
going
to
look
exactly
the
same
as
before,
because
if
so,
we
weren't
able
to
glean
any
kind
of
pattern
or
do
any
kind
of
oversight
in
the
past.
I
Hey
everybody:
can
people
see
me
sorry,
I'm
got
my
stuff
or
there.
It
is
okay,
good,
all
right,
okay,
so
yeah.
So
I
I
was
going
to
speak
to
something
that
chair
jackson
said
in
the
commissioner.
Sarah.
I
can
answer
your
question
as
well.
I
think,
just
from
having
some
of
the
background
before
we're
and
chris
had
come
on
this
project.
So
with
the
case
summaries
I
mean
the
whole
the
kind
of
crux
of
the
case.
I
Some
reason
where
that
the
review
that
has
come
from
is
the
audit
function
of
the
pcoc,
and
so
the
reason
that
they're
randomly
selected
is
to
be
representative
of
a
larger.
You
know,
population
of
cases.
So
when
we
talk
about
identifying
specific
segments
and
trends
and
patterns
and
practices,
I
think,
with
the
case
summaries
the
the
more
the
idea
it's
similar
to
what
we
do
in
audit.
It's
just
the
you
know
the
review
of
I'm
trying
to
think
about.
You
know
a
good
example.
I
mean,
like
the
ketamine.
I
You
know,
like
rapport,
be
an
example
where
it
was
just.
You
know
the
review
of
a
very
high
volume
of
body
camera
review.
For
you
know
a
variety
of
different
purposes
that
actually
identified
kind
of
some
similar
like
issues
that
were
taking
place
during
you
know
like
during
these
interactions.
It
wasn't
necessarily
that
we
knew
it
existed.
I
It
was
more
that
we
looked
to
kind
of
a
wider
spectrum
and
so
like
that's
kind
of
where
these
initially
started
from,
which
is
why
you
know
that,
like
trying
to
boil
it
down
to
you
know
here's
if
we
had,
for
example,
I
mean
whatever.
If
it's
use
of
force,
you
know
I'm
at
60
cases
and
we
had
say
like
we
had
sick.
You
know
like
it
was
ten
percent
of
the
total
population
we'd
have
six?
Can
we
ensure
there
were
six
cases
that
were
used
of
force
that
you'd
have
an
opportunity
to
identify?
I
I
So
I
want
to
make
it
very
clear
that,
like
you
know
doing
one
does
not
exclude
the
other
where
you
know
where,
if
there's
something
that's
very
relevant
just
because
of
either
you
know,
some
kind
of
you
know
like
national,
like
national
attention,
local
attention
state
attention,
whatever
you
know
whatever
it
may
be
like
those
are
things
that
can
be
identified
to
go
the
research
and
study
process
where
we
would
then
go
the
deeper
dive.
You
know
into
that
and
kind
of
focus
on
an
area,
but
the
case
summaries.
I
Just
in
and
of
themselves
are
meant
to
be
a
representative
sample
of
kind
of
like
of
what's
coming
in,
like
what
are
the.
What
do?
The
complaints
look
like
in
the
universe
of
like
minneapolis
police
oversight,
so
that
you
all
have
the
opportunity
to
kind
of
see.
You
know
like
this
is
a
representative
sample
of
what
we're
getting
you
know
like
every
month
and
what's
being
reviewed
and
what
the
outcomes
are,
and
I
think
that
the
idea
behind
freezing
them
within
you
know
the
span
of
a
year
is
just
to
kind
of
encapsulate.
I
That
year
I
mean
I
do
under
you
know
it's
similar
to.
I
guess
certain
taxes
not
to
you
know
not
to
use
an
example
that
everybody's
gonna
hate,
but
you
know,
but
obviously,
when
we
get
toward
the
end
of
the
year
yep.
You
know
there
might
be
some
that
you
know
that
when
you
know
that
we're
like
10
months
old,
but
I
think
it's
there's
something
about
being
able
to
encapsulate.
I
I
You
know,
as
opposed
to
kind
of
you
know
like
the
randomization
of
it,
and
I
think
with
the
you
know,
as
far
as
like
the
choosing
the
synopsis,
you
know,
I
think
it's
you
know
sometimes
for
some
of
them.
I
know
you
can
get
a
little
bit
more
depending
on
what
the
case
outcome
was.
The
thing
is
in
the
current
climate
too.
I
think
a
lot
of
these
cases.
I
If
there
are
outcomes
you
know,
are
being
a
lot
more
publicly
available
to
begin
with,
and
just
you
know,
asking
people
to
choose
based
on
a
few
certain.
You
know
it's
like
kind
of
this,
a
couple
sentences,
and
it's
almost
like
the
dating
myself,
but
I
remember
when
you
can
go
to
places
and
get
like
the
free,
like
you
know,
like
the
mystery
bag,
for
lack
of
a
better
term.
You
know
where
people
kind
of
pick
and,
like
you
know,
and
once
you've
picked.
I
I
I
wasn't
there,
but
at
the
same
time,
I
think
that
just
you
know,
by
by
trying
to
vastly
increase
the
number
of
things
that
we're
doing,
I
think
the
substantive
data
that
will
be
available
not
only
to
you
but
just
to
members
of
the
public
in
advance
of
the
meetings
too,
which
is
important
since,
instead
of
having
to
kind
of
everything,
be
reactionary
to
what
the
pcoc
is
doing
and
what
you
all
are
talking
about.
You
know,
then
they
have
to
come
to
the
next
meeting.
J
Madam
chair,
I
think
I
I
think
andrew
covered
it,
but
maybe
more
succinctly.
I
would
say
to
your
specific
question
about
the
five
presentations
being
randomized,
instead
of
all
the
same
manner.
I
think
what
I
understand
from
discussing
this
with
staff
is
that,
even
though
you'd
have
five
separate
cases,
they
would
be
tracking
the
five
areas
from
month
to
month,
so
that
over
time
you
are
providing
within
the
various
types
of
case,
complaints
that
come
forward.
J
You
know
you
could
say
we
want
to
dive
deeper
into
there.
So
certainly
the
analysts,
britain
and
christopher
can
can
correct
me,
but
my
understanding
is
that
it's
it's
it's
a
both
and
approach
a
high
level
sampling
across
all
the
types
that
does
allow
you,
if
you
start
to
define
trends
over
periods
to
dig
deeper,
and
so
I
guess
credit,
christopher
and
britta.
I
would
ask
if
I
captured
that
correctly.
B
L
E
Healthy
either
I'm
happy
with
this,
so
I
wanna
echo
what
commissioner
sarah
mentioned
in
the
beginning
about
detail
of
the
information.
I
remember
the
very
first
time
I
looked
at
these
summaries
from
the
synopsis
and
I
asked
the
question:
what
were
any
of
the
demographics
of
the
individual
who
filed
the
complaint-
and
I
was
told
by
someone
who
knew
this
better
than
I
did-
that
that
was
not
that
that
was
like
personal
information
that
could
potentially
identify
the
person
and
therefore
we
we
can't
disclose
that
sort
of
information.
E
E
The
police
use
of
force
dashboard
that
is
available
on
the
city's
website,
publicly
disclosed
information,
and
it
is
all
at
aggregate,
but
it
does
individually
record
gender
race
specific
day,
specific
time
of
an
incident
of
a
police
use
of
force,
and
that
to
me
is
the
exact
level
of
information
that
I'm
looking
for
in
some
of
these
synopsis.
I'm
not
asking
for
you
know
individual
names
and
social
security
numbers,
I'm
I'm
looking
for
the
same
level
of
detail
of
what
I'm
seeing
in
in
sort
of
this
police
use
of
force.
E
E
E
That's
exactly
the
type
of
level
of
information
that
I
was
looking
for
when
I
initially
started
asking
these
questions
of,
I
would
like
to
know
the
the
race
and
ethnicity
the
gender,
and
I
mean,
even
if
possible,
an
age
range
as
well
would
be
so
helpful
for
me
and
since
we're
starting
this
conversation
about
what
is
you
know
useful
and
what
is
not
to
me.
This
demonstrates
that
it
is
possible
to
get
that
information.
It
is
allowable
to
be
disclosed,
and
I
would
love
to
see
it.
B
I
Yeah,
so
no,
I
completely
understand
that
there's
some
confusion
across
the
board
and
some
of
it
too,
like
we've,
always
pushed
for
as
much
as
we
can
possibly
get
and
like
I'm
right
there
with
you,
we'll
keep
doing
it.
I
think
some
of
it's
probably
from
the
standpoint
of
like
you
know
they
were
written
this
way
for
a
long
time,
and
you
know
that's
like
very
seldom.
Is
that,
like
a
response
for
why
we
do
things,
you
know
it's
like?
Well,
we've
always
done
it
this
way
like
okay.
H
I
About
it,
since
it's
adjacent
to
ours,
it's
not
quite
the
same
like
some
of
what
they
can
do
like.
I
believe
my
police
reports
like
if
once
once,
filed
it's
a
public
date.
It's
considered
public
data
so
there
I
know
there
are
some
constraints
with
like
with
us.
In
the
data
practices
act
and,
like
I
say,
the
data
practices
act,
because
I
don't
mean
us,
I
mean
the
literally
the
state
law
that,
like
limits,
what
we
can
share
about
complaints
in
terms
of
when
people
file
like
what
we're
allowed
to
share.
I
However,
like
one
thing
that
you
said
initially
that
I
know
we
capture
already
in
our
portal
that
there's
no
reason
that
we
couldn't
do
it
for
this,
and
especially
if
we
have,
if
we're
able
to
do
that,
well,
not
if
we're
able
we
will
like
have
the
database
of
complaints
by
topic.
The
aggregate
data
like
that
that's
been
kind
of
our
workaround
for
everything.
Is
that
there's
some
things
that
we
cannot
share.
I
It's
like
it
once
we
get
to
that
critical
mass,
like
you
know
it,
it
seems
like
we
hit
a
point
where
evidently
like
we're
just
allowed
to
do
it.
You
know,
as
far
as
the
state
data
practices
board
is
concerned,
so
I
mean
you
know
again.
It's
like
that
can
be
a
point
of
frustration,
sometimes
because
we
have
to
get
to
that
critical
mass
in
order
to
do
it,
but
I
think,
if
we're
able
to
take
all
of
our
old,
all
of
you
know
everything
that's
been
public
up
to
now
from
2013
to
now.
I
There
has
to
be
enough
in
there
that
we
have
that
critical
mass
for
most
of
those
cases
where
we're
allowed
to
share
that
information,
and
so
I
think
that's
something
that
would
be
very
useful
to
put
on
the
dashboard
so
that
you
can
isolate.
You
know
like
again,
if
they're
a
representative
sample
you
know
of
you
know
like
of
the
wider
case
universe
then,
like
that
you
know
what
you
see
in
the
in
terms
of
the
aggregate
data.
It
should
be
a
representative
sample
that
you
can
extrapolate.
I
I
I
This
is
something
where,
with
the
dashboard
similar
to
the
police
conduct
oversight
like
dashboard,
that
we
have
right
now,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
this
is
something
that's
done
in
real
time,
so
that
you
know
when
these
cases
are
done,
they
can
go
in
you
know
and
we
can
work
with
it
and
kind
of
make
sure
that
this
is
all
you
know.
Like
data,
that's
being
handled
in
real
time
is
publicly
available.
I
mean
just
we
are
pushing
we've
had
you
know,
we've
had
meetings
with
multiple
groups.
I
It's
just
a
it's
standing
it
up
on
the
back
end,
and
so
I
mean
actually
having
something
shout
out
to
christopher
for
having
a
a
little
bit
of
a
tech
background.
You
know
to
be
able
to
come
in
and
help
me
with
some
of
that
stuff.
So
it'll
definitely
get
it's
gonna.
I
think
it'll
be
really
really
exciting
when
it's
done
and
I'd
really
like
to
get
it
done
sooner
than
later,
because
it'll
answer
a
lot
of
questions
as
opposed
to
us
having
to
do
it.
I
Yeah,
it's
a
I
mean
again,
it's
appreciated
and,
like
I
mean
britain
like
and
christopher,
can
I
can
confirm
it
or
choose
not
to
comment
but
like
I've,
literally
like
apologized
to
them
this
week
for
gushing
over
like
having
them.
You
know,
like
I
mean
two,
like
absolutely
amazing,
stuff
people
to
help
do
this
stuff.
C
Thank
you
so
much
and
kind
of
building
on
this
conversation
under
the
minnesota
statutes,
13.05
subdivision,
4
clause
b,
just
to
get
real
technical
with
you
authority,
entities
and
individuals
who
are
specifically
designated
by
governments
to
review
private
data
or
non-public
data
are
allowed
to
do
it,
and
this
commission
is
one
such
entity
where
a
designated
group,
as
mr
carl
said,
we
have
an
audit
function.
You
know
it's
what
we
are
meant
to
do.
C
Also
our
operating
rules
specifically
have
a
process
that
complies
with
data
practices,
law
and
also
the
minnesota
open
meeting
law.
So
like
it's
like
a
venn
diagram
of
the
laws,
we
have
to
follow
that
allows
us
to
review
private
or
non-public
data
and
still
comply
with
all
the
existing
laws.
Basically,
what
happens
is
we
can
discuss
it
privately?
We
close
up
the
meeting
when
we're
discussing
private
data,
so
it's
not
disseminated
publicly
and
then
we
keep
a
record
of
it
and
then
we
open
up
the
meeting
and
continue.
C
The
discussion,
essentially
is
what
the
rules
say
and
that's
exactly
what
open
meeting
law
says.
So
there
is
a
function
for
us
to
view
private
data
or
non-public
data,
even
on
top
of
like
the
andrew
did
you
say
summary
data.
You
don't
like
that
those
high-level
statistics,
so
what
we
really
need,
I
think,
is
the
we
need
to
just
move
forward
having
more
information,
and
I
really
like
the
plan
put
forward.
I
really
like
the
thoughtfulness
of
it.
C
Yes,
one
piece
that
I
feel
is
missing,
which
would
be
addressed
by
looking
at
you
know,
non-public
data
is
being
able
to
track
if
there
are
certain
officers
who
are
a
problem.
Let
me
just
name
derek
shelvin
having
this
series
of
excessive
force,
complaints
for
which
he
was
not
disciplined,
but
there
was
a
new.
You
know
there
was
like
a
steady
flow
of
complaints
and
if
an
officer
was
getting,
you
know
three
or
four
complaints
a
year.
That
would
be
statistically
significant.
C
C
M
Yes,
thank
you,
madam
chair
and
commissioners.
If
you
recall,
I
think,
a
number
of
months
ago,
our
my
office
gave
an
opinion
regarding
the
bifurcated
nation
nature
of
the
office
of
police
conduct
review,
and
it
is
the
opinion
of
the
city
attorney's
office
and
I'm
not
going
to
rehash
all
the
arguments.
J
M
J
C
C
You
know
the
city
attorney
does
a
lot
of
different
things
in
the
city
and
really
the
entity
that
would
decide
whether
or
not
we
have
this
authority
is
the
city
council
and
the
city
council
did
pass
the
ordinance
creating
us
giving
us
this
authority
giving
us
this
audit
function
they've.
Given
us
this
task
to
do
oversight,
and
we
can't
do
it
if
we
don't
have
debt.
B
B
And
you
are
totally
within
your
rights
to
have
that
opinion
and
hold
that
position,
but
that
doesn't
necessarily
make
it
the
rules
that
we
need
to
follow
like
it's
clearly
laid
out
what
our
responsible
responsibilities
are
in
our
our
in
our
our
operational
rules
and
the
the
city
attorney's
office
continues
to
obstruct
us
in
the
fulfilling
of
our
duties,
and
I
for
one,
have
I'm
getting
a
little
fed
up
with
it.
You
know
just
I'm
not
trying
to
be
professional
here,
I'm
getting
I'm
getting
fed
up
with
this.
E
Can
we
ask
city
council
in
some
sort
of
way
to
formally
confirm
this
so
that
way
we
can
determine
whether
or
not
we're
right
and
we
do
have
these
rights
or
the
city
attorney
is
correct
and
we
in
fact
do
not
have
these
rights,
because
I
think
that
would
be
a
great
way
to
to
come.
Come
to
an
understanding
of
where
we're
at
is
that
allowable?
What's
the
process
for
that.
N
B
B
B
C
E
B
D
A
D
J
Madam
chair,
the
staff
was
not
necessary.
I
I
don't
believe
to
have
a
formal
motion
in
this
regard.
We
were
really
trying
to
get
a
temperature
check
from
the
group
if
we're
on
the
right
track.
I
think
I
speak
for
the
group
when
I
say
it
sounds
like
we've
gotten
your
thumbs
up
right,
that
this
is
more
in
line
with
the
better
process.
J
So,
if
that's
true,
what
we'll
do
is
take
the
feedback
we've
gotten
tonight
and
we'll
now,
as
I
mentioned,
start
to
develop
the
legs
that
go
into
building
that
system,
so
that
we
can
bring
that
back
and
start
the
process.
I
will
also
in
terms
of
managing
expectations,
say
this
is
a
brand
new
process.
J
We
will
now
proceed
to
develop
that
system
and
bring
back
for
you
that
that
process,
and
certainly
there
were
a
lot
of
other
discussions
tonight
that
we'll
go
back
and
listen
to
the
recording
again
to
make
sure
that
we're
getting
some
of
those
finer
nuanced
points
as
well,
that
I
know
that
commissioner
pino
commissioner,
sarah
and
others
brought
forward.
So
thank
you
for
your
attention
tonight
on
behalf
of
andrew
and
his
incredible
team.
They've
done
a
lot
of
work
on
this
and
I
appreciate
their
work
to
improve
that
system.
B
Yeah
absolutely
your
your
effort.
The
time
put
into
this
was
obvious,
and
I
have
not
heard
any
objections
so
we're
all
in
a
thumbs
up
position
with
this
right.
Let's
move
forward
with
it,
okay,
all
right
great!
So
with
that,
without
any
objection,
I
will
direct
the
clerk
to
receive
and
file
this
report
as
well.
B
B
Any
reports
chief
redondo
has
not
been
here
to
talk
to
the
pcoc
or
the
public
about
what
they've
learned
and
not
only
are
we
all
commissioners
on
this,
this
commission,
but
we're
also
members
of
the
public
like
we
all
are
including
the
chief.
So
I
just
think
that
we
deserve
the
answers
that
we
need
to
hear
from
chief
eridando
about
what
they've
learned
have
they
even
begun
to
analyze
or
study
any
of
that
to
bring
any
answers
back
to
the
table.
B
Okay,
I'm
gonna
stop
there.
I
have
a
couple
of
other
things
that
I
I
want
to
discuss
tonight,
but
I'm
gonna
stop
there
and
let's
just
address
this,
so
I
know,
commissioner,
sarah.
I
know
that
you-
you
had
some
opinions
about
this,
so
if,
if
I
could
ask
you
to
go
first
and
address
anything,
sorry
I
didn't
mean
to
put
you
on
the
spot.
But
okay.
C
C
C
I
just
you
know.
I
just
want
to
say
right
now:
I'm
not
sure
that
director
of
our
how
much
she
can
share
if
the
investigation
is
on
going.
So
I'm
not
sure
that
was
the
best
plan
of
action
for
us.
You
know
that's
a
that's
a
consideration
around
data
and
so
on.
So
I
you
know
I
have.
I
just
have
a
lot
of
concerns.
I
I
think
we
should
this
entity
should
have
discussions
following
a
a
a
police
killing.
You
know,
I
think
it's
totally
appropriate.
C
I
also
have
questions
about
why
the
bca
is
the
designated
authority
to
do
those
investigations.
They
are
presented
as
a
neutral
agency,
but
in
fact
they
are
not
neutral.
In
fact,
the
mpd
and
the
bca
work
very
closely
together.
They
serve
on
joint
task
force.
Together
they
do
drug
investigations
together
they
have
swat
team
like
they
do
all
this
work
together.
So
to
say,
they're
neutral
is
not
accurate,
so
you
know
I
have
a
lot
of
questions.
Some
are
general,
such
as.
Why
is
the
bca,
the
designated
authority?
C
What's
the
process
for
actor
after
action
review,
one
information?
If
any,
can
director
jafar
provide
us,
and
then
I
had
some
more
specific
questions
about
the
shooting
of
dalal
id
and
my
specific
questions
around
that
were
you
know
understanding
that
he
was
the
target
of
an
investigation.
Why?
Why
was
that
felony
stop
conducted
in
such
a
very
high
traffic?
I
mean
that
is
a
very
dense
little
corner
and
it
was
a
rush
hour
actually
like
there
was
families
coming
in
out
of
that
station.
C
D
G
Matter,
well,
I
I.
I
just
think
these
are
questions
that
we
need
to
keep
pressing
on,
because
as
another
member
I
hope,
I'm
not
frozen,
but
as
another
member
of
the
public
reminded
us
that
we
should
be
able
to.
You
know,
participate
in
performance
review
of
chief
aerodondo
and
possibly
you
know
we
are
this.
You
know
where
we
are
the
civilian
voice,
to
a
certain
extent,
I
think
we
deserve.
B
It
was
brought
to
my
attention
to
our
attention
that
that
has
never
happened,
that
the
mayor
holds
the
chiefs
performance
review
and
excludes
us
from
that
process,
and
no
more
like
I'm
here
to
say
that
no
we're
we're
not
going
to
allow
that
that
it
is
actually
our
duty.
It's
not
that
that
we're
trying
to
push
ourselves
in
somewhere
where
we
don't
belong
or
we're
not
welcome.
B
B
How
do
we
resolve
the
issues
that
that
brought
us
here
in
the
first
place,
if
the
departments
that
are
charged
with
police
conduct
review
can't
be
bothered
to
to
address
the
concerns
and
questions
of
not
only
this
commission
but
the
public?
I
just
don't
know
how
we're
supposed
to
do
what
the
city
says
they
want
us
to.
Do
I
mean,
maybe
that's
just
me,
am
I
crazy,
I
don't
know
so.
B
I
am
also
formally
requesting
that
any
recommendations
received
by
the
pcoc,
or
I
mean
the
opcr
from
civilian
review
panels,
be
made
available
to
the
pcoc.
We
are
supposed
to
be
working
together,
but
we're
not.
We
don't
receive
any
type
of
communication
from
the
opcr
about
what
is
coming
from
these
civilian
review
panels,
so
I'm
formally
requesting
that
information,
because
I
I
think
that
we,
we
all
need
to
start
working
together,
we're
not
enemies,
we're
we're
supposed
to
be
in
partnership,
but
that
is
not
what's
happening
in
practice.
N
N
I
think
that
there's
a
lot
of,
unfortunately,
right
now
with
everyone
pointing
fingers-
and
we
are
part
of
a
commission
that
stems
from
the
city
council
and
I
think
that
we
are
probably
not
being
treated
the
way
we
should
be
treated
as
an
organization
and
we're
not
being
responded
to,
because
we
are
part
of
that
and
that's
just
my
opinion.
I
don't
think
it
takes
a
brain
surgeon
to
see
that
I'm
sure
I
share
the
many
others
share
the
same
opinion
and
I
think
it's
gonna
start
with
building
the
relationship.
N
It's
all
about
building
the
relationships
as
long
as
we
can
try
and
make
an
effort
to
do
that.
I
think
that
we
can
get
more
people
to
actually
want
to
talk
to
us
and
want
to
participate
and
want
to
work
with
us
as
far
as
changing
policies
and
giving
us
information,
because
they
realize
that
we're
here
to
help
and
we're
part
of
the
people
and
what
they're
getting
from
us
is
they're
getting
a
window
into
what
constituents
of
minneapolis
feel
and
what
they
want
to
understand.
What
we
need
questions
to
and
that
with
us.
N
B
B
C
Thanks,
thank
you,
commissioner
jacobson.
I
appreciate
those
remarks
and
I
I
definitely
agree
with
you
part
of
the
difficulty
in
oversight
and
policy,
review
and
procedure.
Recommendations
is
sitting
in
that
difficult
space
and
having
really
difficult
conversations
and
they're
really
uncomfortable
or
can
can
be
uncomfortable.
It
can
be
so
I
appreciate
you
bringing
that
up.
I
you
know,
I
I
think
at
a
minimum
city
officials
need
to
answer
our
questions.
C
You
know,
I
just
think
that's
the
bare
minimum
of
what
we
need
to
move
forward,
especially
extremely
basic
questions,
such
as
who
is
who
are
the
current
junk
joint
supervisors?
You
know
we
need
to
know
the
information
in
order
just
to
do
our
work
and
to
communicate
appropriately
to
bring
the
right
people
to
the
table
to
build
trust.
You
know
like
all
that
kind
of
stuff,
so
you
know
we.
We
really
need
that
response
from
city
people.
C
C
It's
not
as
though
either
of
those
directors
just
gave
us
the
information
we
wanted
to
hear
and
we're
all
like
singing
kumbaya
together.
It
was
not
that
at
all,
they
were
providing
us
with
information
from
their
very
specific
functions
and
helping
us
understand
specific
issues
within
the
city
and
specific
roadblocks,
and
you
know,
then
we
had
a
path
forward
to
kind
of
address
those
roadblocks
and
it
was
great
and
I
I
just
think
we
need
a
lot
more
of
that.
N
D
E
I
I'm
just
hearkening
back
to
our
former
chair
afghan
fruzon,
who
who
left
us
with
a
final
quote
of
saying
we
wield
a
paintbrush
and
not
a
hammer,
and
I
think
it.
That
means
a
lot
more
in
this
sort
of
context.
A
lot
of
what
we
can
do.
The
potential
of
this
commission
is
the
power
in
asking
questions,
but
as
we
can
see
those
questions
when
they're
not
heard
and
not
responded
to,
there
isn't
much
pain
in
our
paint
brush
right
now.
E
So
we
need
to
you
know,
think
of
the
long-term
sustainability
of
this
group
and
legitimacy
of
this
group
and
foster
that
sort
of
dialogue
that
commissioner
jacobson
was
talking
about
sometimes
with
people.
We
may
not
see
eye
to
eye
with
you
know
and
really
make
sure
that
we
are
trying
to
show
that
we
are
all
on
the
same
side
of
making
sure
that
people
stay
safe.
E
It's
just
what's
end
of
that
spectrum
you're
on,
and
I
think
if
we
we
make
a
concerted
effort
to
work
with
entities
in
and
around
the
city.
That
right
now
aren't
very
favorable
of
us,
and
we
show
that
we
are
just
trying
to
you
know:
do
our
part
and
make
the
city
a
better
place.
We
can't
lose
guys,
you
know.
So
that's
all
I
have
let's
work
that
paint
brush
a
little
bit
better,
I'm
up
for
it.
B
B
To
us
building
the
relationships
and
it
it's
very
difficult
to
know
you
know:
do
we
need
to
change
the
color
that
we're
painting
with
you
know?
Do
we
need
a
different
width
paper?
I
mean
what
do
we
need
when,
when
questions
are
repeatedly
asked
and
we're
not
receiving
any
response,
like
I'm
not
quite
sure
how
to
move
forward
with
that,
because
I
think
it's
impossible,
it
takes
both
parties
to
be
in
communication,
not
just
one
continually
asking
we.
We
need
the
other
party
to
respond
to
us
and
treat
us
respectfully.
It's
just
common
courtesy.
B
That's
that's
the
bare
minimum,
it's
just
common
courtesy,
so
anyone
have
any
suggestions
about
how
we
can
you
know
do
we
do
we
need
to
paint
with
a
boulder
stroke?
Do
we
need
to
just
you
know?
I
mean
what
what
is
it
that
we
need
to
do?
I
know
I'm
continuing
with
the
paintbrush
analogy
because
mean
what
it?
What
is
it
that
we
need
to
do
to
to
get
a
response.
F
Yeah,
so
I've
thought
a
lot
about
that
and
I
I've
had
a
hard
time
coming
up
with.
You
know
the
why
and
and
the
what's
wrong
it's
easier
to
see
than
the
how
we
have
had
some
success
in
getting
some
people
from
some
of
these
offices
to
join
meetings
and
kind
of
talk
about
what
they
do,
sort
of
avoiding
the
more
difficult
topics
and
issues
of
the
day.
F
I
know
that
that's
a
little
contentious
and
they're
less
likely
to
want
to
discuss
that
kind
of
thing.
But
what
if
we
started
with
that
sort
of
outreach?
Again,
we've
been
able
to
get
people
from
the
chief's
office
and
I
think,
a
little
bit
of
participation
from
like
opcr
and
what,
if
we
just
try
that
again,
we
ask
people
to
join
some
future
meetings,
kind
of
talk
generally
about
what
they
do,
how
it
factors
in
why
it's
important
and-
and
we
start
there-
is
that
something
that's
doable
or
do.
B
B
B
I
I
We
keep
talking
about
civilian
oversight,
and
you
know-
and
I
mean
that's
the
thing
like
britain
and
chris
are
civilians,
I'm
a
civilian,
you
know,
everybody
in
lpcr
is
a
civilian,
but
you
know
for
any
complaint
that
comes
into
the
city
of
minneapolis,
like
it
goes
through
no
less
than
three
civilians.
You
know
we
have
our
intake
investigators,
who
are
both?
You
know
like
two:
incredibly,
you
know
like
talented
women
of
color
who
are
looking
at
all
of
this
that
have
like
you
know.
One
of
them
has
a
social
work
background.
I
I
You
know
step
in
the
process
after
that,
it's
going
to
go
to
you
know
the
joint
supervisors
for
review,
or
we
have
opcr
and
a
civilian
who's
going
to
review
that,
and
even
it
goes
to
investigation
again
like
and
that's
where
you
know,
depending
on
what
the
person
selected
it
can
go.
You
know
either
to
a
sworn
or
a
a
civilian
investigator,
but
we
have
our
civilians.
You
know
you
just
met
two
of
them
this
evening,
so
I
think
that
you
know
like
that's
something
too,
where
it's
you
know.
I
I
would
love
to
return
to
you
know
to
on
you
know,
like
you
know,
city
hall
operations,
wherever
you
know,
wherever
we're
meeting,
I
don't
care.
It's
like.
I
just
want
to
meet
in
person
again
because
I
think
there's
so
much
that's
lost
when
that's
taken
away,
but
at
the
same
time
it's
just
one
of
those
things
where
not
knowing.
When
that's
going
to
happen,
I
think
that
being
able
to
do
that
sooner
than
later
is
going
to
be.
Incredibly,
you
know
beneficial
just
to
everybody.
I
Just
for
all
of
you
to
get
a
chance
to
meet.
You
know,
meet
those
individuals
and
like
like
britain,
and
chris
did
a
great
job
of
it
tonight.
Just
you
know,
coming
in
and
giving
that
presentation
you
know,
but,
like
also
you
know,
you
learned
a
little
bit
about
their
backgrounds,
but
just
having
those
opportunities
to
talk
more
again
like
it's.
I
You
know
in
the
scope
of
speaking
what
I
can
speak
to
it's
like,
I'm
only
you
know,
I'm
just
going
to
speak
to
you
know
our
staff
and
that's
you
know,
that's
kind
of
my
responsibility
and,
like
I
know
that
a
lot
of
them
are,
you
know
they
love
doing
this
work.
They
bring
a
passion
to
do
this
work.
You
know
and
they're
I
mean
they're
as
committed
to
it.
I
You
know
on
a
screen,
isn't
always
the
best
way
to
interact
with
somebody,
and
you
know-
and
I
think
that
it
creates
this
vacuum-
that
in
the
current
climate
a
lot
of
times,
I
think
worst
assumptions
can
get
assumed
and
that's
something
that
I
think
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
doing
our
due
diligence
to
not.
You
know
to
not
allow
so
or
whatever.
I
I
I
wanted
to
put
that
out
there
that
I
you
know,
I
think
I
mean
tonight
being
you
know,
I
guess
example,
one
of
two:
you
know
two
people
being
there
to
have
a
conversation
with
you.
I
think
we
want
to
kind
of
continue
to
do.
You
know
do
what
we
can
to
to
connect
people
and
have
those
conversations.
B
B
There's
there's
a
a
huge
part
of
it
missing
with
this,
and
I
do
believe
I'll
be
so
glad
when
we
are
able
to
come
back
to
face-to-face
meetings,
because
I
believe
that
probably
a
lot
of
this
will
change
when
when
we
are
back
in
that
capacity,
I
I
think
that
we'll
we'll
have
more
time
to
speak
to
one
another
before
meetings
and
after
meetings
and
well.
No,
we
can't
do
that
because
of
the
opening
laws,
but
I'm
you
know
what
I
mean
we
can.
We
can
be
more
personable
with
one
another.
B
Then
we
then
the
constraints
that
are
put
on
us
by
teams.
You
know
as
as
useful
as
this
medium
has
been
to
continue
with
life.
I
for
one
will
be
thrilled
when,
when
we
are
able
to
go
back
to
meeting
person
to
person,
I
think
that
that
will
help
to
alleviate
some
of
these
these
issues.
Commissioner,
sarah.
C
You
know
I
just
want
to
say
a
little
bit
about
power
dynamics
for
a
moment
too,
because
in
the
active
relationship
building
it's
important
to
consider
are:
is
everyone
on
equal
footing?
Does
someone
have
more
power
than
another
person
in
the
relationship
and
how
to
navigate
that?
And
we
on
this
commission
we're
volunteers?
C
We
don't
have
any
kind
of
independent
access
to
data
or
information.
We
don't
we're
not
paid
to
do
this
work
and
when
we
were
appointed-
and
I
think
everyone
on
this
commission
is
very
mission
centered.
You
know
we're
appointed
to
do
this
work.
We're
here,
we're
missing
time
with
our
families,
we're
missing
time
doing
other
stuff
and
that
work
that
volunteerism
and
that
civic
duty
merits
respect
from
city
employees
absolutely
and-
and
we
don't
control
the
data.
C
C
The
conversation
would
have
been
uncomfortable.
Maybe
there
would
have
been
some
back
and
forth,
but
you
also
lost
an
opportunity
to
tell
us
what
your
perspective
is
leader.
You
know
this
leadership
tell
us
what
your
perspective
is.
If
there's
a
roadblock
that
we're
not
seeing
because
we're
you
know
we're
volunteers
tell
us
what
that
roadblock
is
we
don't
know,
I
think
open
dialogue
is
really
important
and
I
think
the
onus
is
on
city
officials
to
participate
in
that.
B
G
Just
to
that
end,
I
would
I
appreciate
you,
chair
jackson,
going
to
the
city
council,
because
I
think
part
of
one
of
the
issues
is.
None
of
us
are
well
not
all
of
us
work
for
the
city
and
we
don't
have
those
established
relationships
and
it's
easier
to
be
dismissive
of
us
because
you
don't
you
know,
people
don't
know
who
we
are,
and
this
commission
might
not
have
been
historically
exercising
all
the
powers
that
it
could,
and
so
that's
something
that
why
we
want
to
build
relationships.
G
Also,
there
can
be
a
benefit
to
having
a
pushier
side
just
to
establish.
You
know
what
this
commission
can
do
and
should
be
doing,
because
there's
going
to
be
other
people
replacing
us
later
and
so
we'll,
hopefully,
they'll
get
to
step
into
a
role
where
they're
already
there
is
communication
with
different
entities
or
the
entities
that
are
not
responsive,
now
kind
of
see,
some
of
the
the
abilities
or
the
pa.
G
B
So
I
absolutely
believe
that
there
are
times
when
we
do
need
to
assert
that
you
know
passive
or
aggressive.
Neither
one
work,
you
know
assertive,
gets
results
and
I'm
I'm
hoping
that.
That's
what
we're
doing
you
know
what
I've
taken
on
to
to
address
the
city
council
that
we're
being
assertive
with
wanting
a
definitive
answer
to
this
question,
because
I
believe
we
have
been
given
that
power.
I
I
believe
that
we
do
have
the
oh
god.
B
I
just
lost
the
word,
no
okay,
that
that
we
are
allowed
to
that.
We
do
have
the
permission
rather
to
view
that
private
data
in
certain
circumstances
or
arenas.
However,
you
want
to
say
that,
like
you
know,
we
can
close
the
meeting
for
a
moment,
be
able
to
look
at
that
away
from
the
eyes
of
the
public
and
then
open
the
meeting
back
up
like
it's
there
and
the
way
our
operational
rules
and
the
the
the
ordinance
that
established
us
in
the
first
place.
B
I
believe
the
language
lays
out
that
we
are
an
entity
that
is
that
has
that
privilege
to
view
that.
So
I
know
that
that
opinion
differs
from
the
opinion
of
the
city
attorney's
office,
but
opinions.
We
all
know
the
saying
about
opinions,
so
I
I
would
like
to
have
that
once
answered
once
and
for
all,
and
I
mean
if
the
city
council
says
nope
guys,
that's
not
what
we
meant,
then
we'll
need
to
push
for
changes
in
in
legislation
to
change
the
privacy
data
act
to
include
us
in
that.
B
B
I
really
really
like
what
britta
and
christopher
have
accomplished
their
work
involved
in
in
helping
us
change,
how
we
view
case
summaries
and
the
way
they're
going
to
be
analyzed
and
put
forward.
I'm
really
hopeful.
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
being
able
to
go,
go
with
this
process
and
see
how
see
how
it's
gonna
allow
us
to
look
deeper.
B
C
B
B
The
chief
like
the
chief
is
the
one
who
was
directed
to
come
up
with
the
answers
and
he
hasn't
or
if
he
has,
he
hasn't
shared
them
with
us
or
the
city
council.
I
don't
know
if
they
would
have
any
data
about
the
id
shooting.
Yet,
though,
not
not
what
I'm
talking
about.
Like
the
the
commissioner
jacobson,
I
see
your
hand
up.
You
have.
B
D
B
Yeah
why
they
would
choose
that
location
at
that
time
of
day
I
mean
if
they
were,
if
they
had
already
set
up
the
meet
there
when
they
arrived
and
they
saw
the
environment
was
not
conducive,
then
I'm
sure
they
could
have
called
it
off
and
met
at
another
time
like
why.
Why
was
that
even
allowed
to
happen?
Why
was
that
location
chosen
a
gas
station
in
a
in
a
family-oriented
neighborhood?
B
I
don't
understand
that
when
the
possibility
of
shots
being
fired,
that's
not
public
safety,
that's
endangering
the
public.
I
I
would
like
to
know
those
process,
those
thoughts
that
go
through
people's
heads
that
decide
that
that's
okay.
So
to
answer
your
question,
I
think
all
of
the
above
commissioner
pineau.
D
E
Correct
me:
if
I'm
wrong
this,
the
this
is,
the
investigation
is
still
undergoing
right.
We
talked
about
that
in
the
beginning
of
this
conversation,
so
I
mean
potentially,
maybe
we
should
just
ask
a
more
administrative
question
like
to
staff
of
what
is
in
bounds,
so
to
speak.
What
are
we
allowed
to
ask?
What
are
we
not
allowed
to
ask,
given
the
current
status
of
you
know
any
would
be
investigation.
I
I
assume
there
is
one
still
pending
based
off
of
this
conversation.
That
was
saying
I
just
don't
know
personally.
E
B
B
E
And
I
agree,
and
we
could
always
instead
of
you
know
if
we
want
to
dodge
that
that
situation
of
it's
currently
you
know
pending,
we
can't
give
you
an
answer.
We
can
always
ask
the
question
in
the
abstract,
that's
kind
of
like
the
role
of
us
right
like
we
want
to
ask
questions
at
the
trend
level
at
the
macro
level,
so
I
mean
as
long
as
we
formulate
our
questions
in
the
abstract
in
generalities,
then
totally
fine
with
me.
Please
continue.
F
F
They
don't
want
to
talk
to
us
and
they
don't
have
to
nobody's
making
them
nobody's
going
to
give
them
a
pat
on
the
back
or
a
special
prize
or
a
cookie
for
talking
to
us.
We
have
to
either
make
them
want
to
talk
to
us,
or
at
least
be
so
inoffensive
that
they
don't
mind
talking
to
us
nobody's
going
to
make
them
that.
I
think
that's
why
a
lot
of
questions
tend
to
get
ignored.
So
I
think
commissioner,
pino
made
a
good
point.
E
Well,
it's
it's
a
very
leading
question
and
that's
why
I
was
smiling.
I
mean
I
I
don't
want
to
just
suddenly
propose
that
commissioner
sarah
bring
this
up,
but
I
I
just
I
I
remember
she
was
the
one
who
brought
this
about
and
it
seems
motivated
by
it.
But
I
I
don't
want
to
call
you
out
if
that's
something
that
you
you
can't
fit
on
your
plate.
I
know
you're
you're,
also
very
active.
B
I
mean
we
we
can.
We
can
wait
if
you're
agreeable,
commissioner,
sarah,
until
after
the
id
investigation
is,
is
you
know
closed,
but
I
I
would.
I
would
like
to
go
back
to
what
I
said
in
the
beginning.
I
was
talking
about
muhammad
noor
and
the
chief
addressing
the
city
council
a
year
ago
talking
about
how
this
is
crucial
for
us
to
learn
from
okay.
What
have
you
learned
then
from
then
to
now?
A
C
His
staff
or
whomever
you
know
to
come
and
say
like
this
is
what
we've
learned
in
the
past.
What
is
it
five
years
or
four
years
since
muhammad
newer?
Perhaps
that's
one
question.
My
recollection
from
the
meeting
where
we
discussed
the
edge
shooting
in
particular
might
have
in
january
was
that
director
jafar
was
going
to
come
and
give
us
sort
of
an
update
and
kind
of
tell
us
what
she
could
tell
us,
or
you
know,
provide
an
update.
So
you
know,
maybe
the
question
is
just
to
staff.
C
Us
an
update
on
after
actions
like
we
just
need
to
have
information
about
that,
and
when
can
we
talk
about
in
like
particular
cases?
I
don't
know
that
the
investigation
is
ongoing.
I
just
wanted
to
kind
of
flag
that,
because
I
didn't
want
to
say
that
she
should
tell
us
things
that
she
cannot
tell
us.
You
know,
that's
not
fair.
I
don't
know.
B
J
Madam
chair,
I
I'll
take
a
wild
stab
at
trying
to
touch
on
a
myriad
of
issues
that
I
think
are
pending
in
front
of
the
body
right
now.
Okay,
first
and
foremost,
I've
heard
a
reference
a
couple
times
too
questions
that
aren't
answered.
I'm
not
aware
of
questions
that
are
answered
are
not
answered
or
are
pending,
without
a
response
of
some
kind
specific
to
the
de
la
lead
case.
J
I
will
remind
this
body
that
the
motion
asking
director
jafar
to
report
back
was
premised
on
the
fact
that
the
case
was
closed,
so
director
jafar
cannot
respond
until
that
case
is
closed
by
the
police
department,
and
even
then,
the
motion
by
this
body
was
using
the
data
that
is
public
and
can
be
reported.
So
the
fact
that
it
hasn't
come
back
yet
is
not,
I
don't
believe,
indicative
of
the
fact
she's
not
responding.
It's
the
time
is
not
ripe.
J
That
case
has
not
ripened
to
a
point
where
the
director
is
able
to
provide
a
response
in
a
similar
fashion.
If
there
are
other
issues
that
this
body
has
raised,
where
there's
a
feeling
or
a
perception
that
staff
has
not
responded,
and
I
would
also
base
that
in
the
fact
that
sometimes
staff
do
respond
and
the
body
doesn't
like
the
response
that
doesn't
mean
staff
hasn't
responded.
It
means
the
body
doesn't
like
what
they
were
told.
So
that's
a
different
issue,
but
I'm
happy
to
work
with
you,
madam
chair.
J
Secondly,
I
am
happy
to
help
you
in
crafting
a
communication
to
the
mayor
and
council
asking
for
clarification
on
the
role
of
this
body
as
it
exists
within
the
ordinance
that
created
not
just
the
pcoc
but
the
review
panels.
Other
cities,
of
course,
have
mixed
those
two
functions
into
one
body:
minneapolis
separated
those.
J
So
I
do
think
that
it's
important
to
get
clarification
from
the
body
that
created
you
on
what
their
intent
was
in
in
that
creation
act,
and
I
can
certainly
help
you
in
crafting
that
response
or
that
inquiry
letter
to
the
mayor
and
council,
and
then
I
think,
the
third
point,
and
if
I'm
missing
it,
someone
please
correct
me,
but
there's
this
thought
process
of
a
future
ongoing.
How
do
we
get
the
right
people
at
the
table
and
I
don't
mean
to
tip
my
hand
in
any
way.
J
Madam
chair,
you
and
I
have
been
talking
about
this,
and
I
was
hopeful
that
you
and
I
would
be
able
to
make
the
announcement,
but
you-
and
I
have
been
talking
not
only
about
case
summary
process
improvements,
but
also
along
those
lines
of
the
body's
discussion
of
how
do
we
get
the
right
representation
at
the
table?
Certainly,
you
have
multiple
members
from
pcos.
You
have
represented
the
city
attorney's
office,
provide
legal
counsel.
Clerk's
office
is
here
to
provide
administrative
support.
The
mayor's
public
safety
policy
liaison.
J
Mr
jared
jeffries
attends
these
meetings,
so
you
have
awareness
and
input
and
insight
from.
I
think
lots
of
the
top
offices
of
the
city,
the
one
that's
obviously
missing-
is
the
police
department
itself
and
it
has
been
our
effort
to
try
and
secure
a
designation
from
chief
arredondo,
a
member
of
his
management
team,
who
could
be
a
liaison
to
this
group
and
attend
its
meetings
and,
if
not
able
to
answer
in
real
time
to
this
body,
then
certainly
just
like
with
mr
jeffries.
J
I
think,
with
the
mayor
and
through
the
mayor
to
the
chief,
be
another
channel
of
communication
to
keep
those
lines
open,
as
many
members
here
tonight
have
indicated,
build
those
and
sustain
those
solid
relationships,
and
so
we
are
continuing
again-
and
I
I'm
sorry
to
bring
that
forward
without
it
being
ripe
for
discussion.
But
that's
something
that
the
chair
and
I
have
been
working
on
is
getting
a
liaison.
Who
could
then
attend
these
meetings
and
be
more
directly
responsive
and
and
be
a
conduit
into
the
mpd?
J
J
J
It's
tried
our
heart
patients
over
the
last
16
to
17
months,
so
hopefully,
within
the
next
month,
right
in
september,
we're
hoping
to
come
back
in
person.
I
think
that
changes
the
tenor
and
dynamics
a
bit.
I
think,
having
the
liaison
from
mpd
having
mr
jeffries
at
the
table
with
us
having
clarity
from
mayor
and
council
on
the
purpose
of
this
group.
All
of
those
things
can
only
help
this
body
continue
to
refine
and
improve
its
performance.
J
I
think
it
was
commissioner
dwyer
who
said
we
want
to
understand
what
our
role
is,
so
that
our
successors
right
don't
have
to
reinvent
the
wheel
as
we
have
so.
I
think
all
of
those
comments,
and
now
I'm
gonna,
try
and
wrap
it
up.
Gracefully
are
are
heard
by
staff,
are
appreciated
and
shared
by
the
staff
who
are
with
you
right
now
in
this
space
from
opcr
from
the
city
attorney
from
the
clerk
from
the
mayor's
office.
I
know,
commissioner,
pino
has
graciously
said
many
times.
J
We
all
are
on
the
same
side
and
it's
good
for
us
to
remember
we're
all
on
the
same
side.
So
if
that's
any
kind
of
concluding
comment,
I'll
say
we've
been
in
here
for
two
hours,
I'm
sure
all
of
you
have
personal
lives
you
want
to
get
to,
and
families
and
things
to
do.
But,
madam
chair,
I'm
happy
to
connect
with
you,
maybe
in
the
next
few
days
to
to
follow
up.
We
can
create
a
list,
invite
members
to
send
that
information
to
us.
We
can
begin
generating
some.