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Description
Additional information at
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov
B
All
right,
thank
you
so
much
okay
good
evening
welcome
to
the
regular
meeting
of
the
police
conduct
oversight,
commission
policy
and
procedure
subcommittee
for
july
22nd
2021,
I'm
abigail,
sarah,
the
chair
of
the
subcommittee
and
I'm
going
to
call
this
meeting
for
july
22nd
2021.
To
order,
as
we
begin,
I
will
note
for
the
record
that
this
meeting
has
remote
participation
by
commissioners
and
city
staff
as
authorized
under
minnesota
statutes,
section
13d
.021
due
to
the
declared
local
public
health
emergency.
B
This
meeting
will
be
recorded
and
posted
to
the
city's
website
and
youtube
channel
as
a
means
of
increasing
public
access
and
transparency.
This
meeting
is
public
and
subject
to
the
minnesota
open
meeting
law.
At
this
time
I
will
ask
the
clerk
to
call
role,
so
we
can
verify
a
quorum
for
this
meeting.
B
B
B
B
The
next
order
of
business
on
our
agenda
is
a
discussion
of
council
member
gordon's
proposed
changes
to
the
oversight
ordinance
a
matter
that
was
referred
to
this
subcommittee
by
the
police
conduct
oversight
commission
at
the
may
11th
meeting
to
refresh
your
memories.
The
motion
from
the
full
commission
was
to
support
further
examination
of
the
framework
proposing
potential
changes
to
the
scope
of
the
oversight
ordinance
presented
by
council
member
gordon,
including
potential
refinements
to
that
proposal
and
gathering
public
input.
B
I
would
like
to
introduce
our
guest
speaker,
professor
professor
rachel
moran
from
the
st
thomas
law
school
professor
moran
scholarship,
focuses
on
issues
pertaining
to
police,
accountability,
police
reform
and
public
access
to
records
of
police
misconduct.
She
was
the
2020
professor
of
the
year
at
st
thomas
law
school.
We
are
very
lucky
to
have
her
here
today
without
any
further
ado,
professor
moran,
please
take
it
away.
A
Thank
you
so
much,
commissioner.
Sarah,
I
appreciate
you
having
me
I'm
just
gonna,
really
briefly
say
where
I
think
I
can
hopefully
lend
some
expertise
and
also
be
clear
about
where
I
think
you
all
are
probably
the
experts
more
than
me.
So
I
definitely
do
have
quite
a
bit
of
experience,
studying
issues
related
to
police
accountability
and,
specifically,
civilian
oversight.
A
I've
published
several
scholarly
articles
on
that
topic.
I've
consulted
with
other
legislators
in
other
states
on
bills
relating
to
police,
accountability
generally
and
civilian
oversight.
Specifically,
I've
had
my
work
used
in
other
the
creation
of
other
civilian
oversight
regimes,
if
you
will,
but
I've
only
been
in
minneapolis
since
2018,
and
so
I
do
want
to
be
really
clear.
There
are
other
people
in
the
on
the
screen
or
listening
in
who
know
minneapolis
better
than
I
do.
A
Despite
how
you
know,
I'm
certainly
getting
to
know
it
and
trying
hard
in
that
area
and
so
totally
fine.
A
So
I'll
just
kick
off
a
few
quick
things
that
I
think
are
really
important
about
civilian
oversight,
but
I'm
not
going
to
talk
for
very
long.
I
really
just
want
to
be
available.
If
folks
have
questions
what
we
don't
want
or
what
I
would
caution,
I
would
say
you
don't
want
is
an
agency
that
only
has
the
ability
to
audit
or
to
review
what
the
police
have
done.
So
an
effective
civilian
oversight
agency
is
one
that
actually
has
power
rather
than
just
one.
That's
reviewing
and.
C
A
I
think
I
saw
a
lot
of
that
in
council
member
gordon's
proposal
a
couple.
A
few
things
I
would
recommend
are-
and
some
of
them
are
already
in
there,
but
I
just
want
to
stress
how
important
they
are.
I
think
it's
really
important
to
be
able
to
receive
for
the
agency
to
receive
civilian
complaints
directly
rather
than
just
have
them
referred
from
the
police.
A
It's
crucial
that
an
agency
can
actually
conduct
its
own
investigations,
which
means
it
has
to
have
subpoena
power.
It
has
to
have
the
ability
to
call
witnesses
whether
formally
or
informally,
at
least
we'll
just
say
to
talk
to
people,
and
ideally
it
should
have
at
least
some
paid
staff
who
have
experience
conducting
investigations,
but
who
are
not
themselves
police
officers.
A
It
should
be
independent
of
law
enforcement
as
much
as
possible
to
the
extent
it
has
any
law
enforcement
members.
They,
I
would
say,
could
provide,
could
serve
in
an
explanatory
capacity,
in
other
words,
explaining
how
certain
officers
are
expected
to
behave
in
certain
circumstances,
but
they
shouldn't
actually
be
part
of
the
decision
making
process
and
one
thing
I'll
recommend
that
is
rarely
adopted.
But
I
would
say
that
an
effective
civilian
oversight
agency
ideally
actually
has
disciplinary
power.
That's
a
hotbed
of
controversy.
A
But
I
would
also
strongly
recommend
that
one
of
the
responsibilities
of
the
oversight
agency
be
providing
regular
public
reports
about
the
complaint
and
discipline
process
so
that
the
public
can
assess
whether
this
board
is
effective,
and
I
I
think
I
gave
to
commissioner
sarah
a
bill
that
maryland
recently
passed
that
had
some
legislation
in
this
area
and
that's
one
nice
thing
they
have
in
that
bill
is
some
requirements
about
public
reporting
and
making
that
reporting
available
and
I'll
stop
there.
Except
that
I
want
to
say.
A
B
Excellent,
thank
you
so
much
professor
moran,
let's
see,
I
will
now
open
the
floor
and
invite
comments
on
this
presentation
from
the
community.
We
will
limit
the
public
comment
period
to
no
more
than
two
minutes
per
speaker.
Please,
please,
press
star
six
to
unmute
yourself.
C
One
hello:
can
you
hear
me?
C
D
C
B
B
Do
you
think
that
minneapolis
police
department
officers
or
employees
should
participate
in
selecting
the
oversight,
panelists
or
commissioners
or
whatever
they're
ultimately
called.
A
Thanks
for
that
question,
no,
I
don't.
I
would
the
best
selection
processes
that
I
could
recommend.
They
usually
involve
a
variety
of
selectors.
A
Sometimes
there
there
are
people
like
a
mayor
or
city
council
who
have
the
opportunity
to
select
some
of
the
members,
but
they
also
have
local
community
organizations
that
have
been
involved
in
advocacy
around
policing
or
civil
rights
issues
that
have
the
power
to
independently
select,
usually
like
they
they're
they're
allotted,
perhaps
one
slot
on
the
oversight
agency
or
on
the
on
the
review
board.
However,
you
want
to
call
it
and
that,
I
think,
is
a
wonderful
thing.
A
A
It
doesn't
make
a
lot
of
sense
to
have
actual
police
department
members,
particularly
from
the
police
department,
that
is
being
overseen
on
the
agency.
B
And
oh
there
you
go
just
a
quick
clarification,
so
would
you
say
the
same
for
if
there
were
officers
in
the
outside
agency.
A
At
least
I
would
say
the
same
for
active
duty
officers:
it
could
be
slightly
different
if
you
have
I'm
not
necessarily.
I
don't
think
it's
necessarily
a
bad
thing
to
have
people
with
some
people
with
law
enforcement
experience.
It's
a
valuable
perspective
to
provide
it
shouldn't,
be
the
only
perspective
by
any
means,
but
it
is
a
valuable
perspective
and
I
think
it
makes
the
process
fairer,
but
I
I
would
caution
against
active
law
enforcement
members,
either
in
the
selection
process
or
as
actual
participants
in
the.
A
B
Commissioner,
abdi
with
was
that
your
question:
is
it
okay?
If
I
go
on
with
another
one?
Okay
great,
I
did
make
a
note
here,
professor
moran.
As
to
the
disciplinary
power,
there
is
a
minnesota
statute
that
limits
your
nodding,
your
head.
You
know
that
limits
what
disciplinary
power
civilian
civilian
oversight
entities
can
do
and
we
we
cannot
issue
discipline
at
least
as
the
law
stands
today.
So
our
our
option,
at
least
today,
would
be
what
you
recommended
as
the
alternative
to
recommend
discipline.
B
B
One
thing
that
I
really
liked
about.
It
was
that
the
the
oversight
entity
or
panel
or
whatever
it
was
called,
could
make
recommendations
for
discipline,
and
the
chief
could
do
something
different,
but
the
chief
had
to
stay
within
the
bounds
of
the
disciplined
matrix,
and
so
the
chief
could
give
the
same
level
of
discipline
or
type
of
discipline
that
was
on
the
matrix
or
higher.
But
the
chief
couldn't
do
less.
B
So
if
the
matrix
recommended
a
40
hour
suspension,
the
chief
could
give
an
80
hour
suspension,
but
the
chief
could
not
do
a
written
reprimand
and
no
suspension,
and
so
that's
kind
of
like
in
line
with
what
professor
moran
was
saying-
and
I
I
just
like
to
submit
to
this
group
that
I
think
that's
something
that
could
be
considered.
Something
like
you
know,
the
chief
and
the
mayor
and
whomever
creates
the
discipline
matrix
and
those
are
their
decisions
to
make
around
that.
B
A
Yeah
and
thanks
for
clarifying
I,
I
meant
to
say
that
when
I
was
suggesting
the
disciplinary
power
issue,
some
of
the
things,
I
think
that
one
in
particular-
but
I
know
I
mean
minnesota
as
a
whole-
is
reconsidering
a
lot
of
their
laws
around
police
accountability.
And
so
I
brought
that
up
because
I
do
think
there
is
a
chance
someday,
maybe
soon,
maybe
down
the
road,
that
there
would
be
a
change
in
the
opportunity
for
civilians
to
impose
discipline
and
that's
something
that's
more
aspirational
at
this
point,
but
is
worth
thinking
about.
A
I
do
I
do
like
the
minnesota
option
or
just
the
excuse
me.
The
maryland
law
option
that
you
just
mentioned,
commissioner.
Sarah-
and
there
are
other
ways
to
think
about.
What's
really
important
is
that
if
you're
going
to
have
a
chief
or
a
disciplinary
body
that
is
routinely
departing
from
recommendations,
that
really
needs
to
be
limited
and
well
documented
when
it's
happening
so
that
you
don't
have
a
completely
toothless
oversight.
B
B
I'm
just
taking
some
notes:
was
there
any
further
discussion
by
the
commissioners
or
anyone
else
on
the.
B
D
Maybe
I
could
just
thank
you
for
taking
this
up.
This
is
cam,
gordon
and
so
I've
been
developing
in
cooperation
with
community
members,
this
framework
and
now
we're
drilling
in
and
drafting
some
of
the
language.
D
I
was
taking
notes,
gonna
double
check
and
make
sure
that
those
good
ideas
are
in
the
proposal
moving
forward
and
seeing
what
we
can
do.
I
guess
to
push
it
further.
D
We've
got
a
problem
here
where
we
do
coaching
for
a
lot
of
these
complaints
to
come
forward
and
then
that
information
is
even
private
too.
So
that's
another
state
law.
We
seem
to
be
bumping
up
against
too.
So
I
welcome
you
to
be
engaged
in
this
further
and
for
the
commission
too,
I
invite
you
to
maybe
help
with
how
we
could
engage
other
communities
more
in
this
conversation
as
we're
moving
forward,
but
really
appreciate
you
doing
this
and
glad
I
was
here
to
listen.
B
B
Next
on
the
agenda
is
a
discussion
of
the
10
arbitration
decisions
that
have
been
overturned
since
2005..
This
item
was
referred
to
the
policy
and
procedure
subcommittee
by
the
full
commission
at
the
july
13th
meeting,
since
we
have
not
yet
received
all
10
decisions
from
the
city
attorney's
office.
I'm
going
to
move
to
postpone
this
agenda
item
to
the
august
26th
policy
and
procedures
of
committee
meeting
and
just
for
clarification.
We
have
received
three
out
of
the
ten
and
we
expect
to
receive
the
remaining
seven
pretty
soon.
B
B
Okay,
so
will
the
kirk?
Please
call
the
roll
on
my
motion
to
move
this
agenda
item
to
the
august
meeting.
B
E
E
B
We
are
also
awaiting
data
related
to
the
misdemeanor
arrest
by
minneapolis
police
department,
I'm
hopeful
that
that
will
also
be
available
and
that
that
item
will
be
placed
on
the
august
agenda
as
well.
I
believe
that
the
city
clerk
is
working
with
whomever
they
need
to
work
to
gather
that
data
and
provide
it
to
us.
B
B
B
I
can't
believe
I'm
not
hearing
any
hearing,
none
I'll,
I
will
just
move
on.
We
don't
have
any
public
comments.
Okay,.
C
Somehow
I
got
muted
and
unmuted.
This
is
dave,
vicking,
yeah,
sorry
about
that
couple,
just
quick
things.
What
a
shame
it
is
that
the
city
attorney's
office
has
only
provided
three
of
those
arbitration
decisions.
This
deliberate
stalling-
I
mean
they
would
they
could
certainly
go
to
a
file
cabinet
and
pull
them
out
and
get
them
to
you
in
an
hour
or
two.
C
C
Of
course
I
spoke
about
arbitration
and
in
that
meeting,
unlike
this
one,
we
are
running
out
of
time,
so
there
wasn't
a
chance
for
questions,
and
so
I'm
very
open
to
anybody's
questions
or
comments
from
the
presentation
I
gave
last
month.
I
think
that'd
be
all.
B
C
The
disciplinary
reset
mechanism
thank.
B
C
After
adoption
of
the
disciplinary
matrix,
which
yes,
we
saw
some
from
2018,
but
we
don't
know
whether
those
were
for
real
or
not,
and
we
have
talked
to
chief
aaron
dondo
about
the
disciplinary
reset
on
several
occasions
from
this
and
more
recently
than
that,
and
he
never
indicated
to
us
that
it
was
finished
just
that
they
were
still
working
on
it
and
to
this
day
I've
asked
him
the
very
simple
question
and
got
a
follow-up,
and
I
guess
I
should
do
another
follow-up
email
to
him.
C
Saying
are
those
documents
final
or
were
they
just
drafts
and
what
is
the
status
again,
something
that
could
be
answered
in
you
know
a
couple
of
hours
and
yeah.
Unfortunately,
I
have
not
heard
back
from
the
chief
on
that.
So
eventually
a
department
of
justice
is
going
to
ask,
so
I
don't
know
how
what
they
figure
they're
going
to
accomplish
by
continuing
to
stall
the
public
like
this.
B
B
Well,
thank
you
very
much.
Well.
Thank
you.
You
know
this
has
been
a
short
agenda,
but
still,
I
think,
incredibly
fruitful.
I
really
appreciate
professor
moran
and
commissioner
councilmember
gordon
supporting
the
commission
and
supporting
this
work
if
there
aren't
any
further
com.
Oh
excuse
me,
commissioner,
sylvester.
E
Hey,
thank
you
so
much.
I
just
wanted
to
give
a
quick
update
on
some
stuff
that
we
did
at
a
previous
meeting.
If
that's
okay,.
B
E
So
chair
sarah
had
the
foresight
to
set
up
to
get
michelle
vero
from
the
city
of
minneapolis
she's,
the
director
of
the
office
of
immigrant
and
refugee
affairs
for
the
city
of
minneapolis,
to
one
of
our
previous
meetings
from
that
meeting.
She
and
I
had
some
subsequent
meetings
about
immigrant
familiarization
new
american
familiarization
with
9-1-1
systems.
E
Those
conversations
led
to
more
conversations
with
the
international
institute
of
minnesota
and
helping
us
identify
other
organizations
that
are
working
with
new
americans
and
so
now,
one
of
my
I
work
as
a
paramedic
at
hcmc,
one
of
my
medical
directors,
and
I
are
going
to
finalize
now
some
training
curriculu,
that
hopefully,
these
organizations
can
use
to
teach
people
about
what
our
911
system
is,
how
it
operates
when
it's
appropriate
to
call
what
sort
of
services
we
do
offer
some
sort
of
just
kind
of
trust
and
familiarization
work,
not
necessarily
tied
into
the
subcommittee
per
se,
but
a
piece
of
fruit
that
is
growing
out
of
the
subcommittee
that
everybody's
really
excited
about.
E
So
I
just
wanted
to
thank
you,
and
I
just
kind
of
wanted
to
give
the
group
that
update
that
you
know
those
connections
were
made
in
that
that
work
is
ongoing.
B
Yay,
thank
you
so
much,
commissioner
sylvester,
that
is
so
promising
and
heartening,
and
I
you
know
I
just
want
to
just
express
some
gratitude
to
my
fellow
commissioners
on
this
group.
I
feel
like
we
come
up
with
ideas
and,
and
we
find
really
positive
things
to
work
on
together
and
to
move
forward,
and
it
it
feels
really
good
because
sometimes
in
this
space,
it's
the
conversations
can
be
difficult
and
you
know
fraught.
So
so
thank
you
for
that.
B
Good
news
and
the
commission's
mission
is
to
do
work
that
relates
to
policing,
and
so
you
know
having
access
to
9-1-1
and
understanding
that
system,
I
think,
is
essential
to
that
work.
So,
thank
you,
commissioner.
Sylvester.