►
Description
Additional information at
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov
B
Good
afternoon
and
welcome
to
the
regular
meeting
of
the
police
conduct
oversight,
commission
audit
subcommittee
for
july
26
2021-
I
am
robert
jackson
pino
and
I
am
the
chair
of
this
committee.
As
we
begin,
I
will
note
for
the
record
that
this
meeting
has
remote
participation
by
members
and
city
staff
as
authorized
under
minnesota
statutes,
section
13d.021
due
to
the
declared
local
public
health
emergency.
B
This
meeting
will
be
recorded
and
posted
to
the
city's
website
and
youtube
channel
as
a
means
of
increasing
public
access
and
transparency.
This
meeting
is
public
and
subject
to
the
minnesota
open
meeting
law
at
this
time.
I'll
ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
role,
so
we
can
verify
a
quorum
for
this
meeting.
B
C
C
B
B
C
B
That
motion
also
carries
in
the
minutes
for
june
2021's
meeting
are
accepted.
The
next
order
of
business
is
the
acceptance
of
public
comments.
I
will
open
the
floor
to
invite
comments
from
the
community
we'll
limit
the
public
comment
period
to
no
more
than
two
minutes
per
speaker
and
with
that
are
there
any
members
of
the
community
who
are
on
the
line
with
us
by
phone
who
would
wish
to
address
the
commission.
B
Seconds
all
right
hearing
that
there
are
no
community
members
who
wish
to
address
the
committee.
I
will
move
on
to
our
unfinished
business.
The
first
will
take
up
the
unfinished
business
of
our
no
knock
warrants.
I
do
believe
there
is
a
an
item
that
should
be
attached
to
our
agenda.
It
was
received
by
me
and
I
do
believe
the
other
commissioners
received
a
document
from
our
staff
last
week,
possibly
even
a
week
prior
to
that
and
just
to
confirm.
B
Madam
clerk
is
that
document
that
I'm
referring
to
available
in
on
our
limb
system
for
public
disclosure.
B
Of
what
you're
doing
and
if
I
could
have
staff,
either
andrew
or
christopher,
speak
on
behalf
of
that
report.
So
that
way
we
can
hear
from
your
end
as
authors
of
that
report,
and
then
we
can
have
a
discussion
and
potentially
move
forward
with
that
process.
D
So
this
this
document
that
was
sent
out
to
the
subcommittee
is
to
really
kind
of
set
out
the
parameters
and
direction
towards
this
study.
This
research
study
I
identified
when
drafting
this
the
kind
of
the
background
to
it,
the
other
areas
that
we
had
considered.
You
know
where
we
had
looked
at
the
comparison
to
other
jurisdictions
and
their
their
policies,
as
well
as
the
current
policies
and
then
the
previous
report
that
the
commission
received.
D
B
Okay,
taking
a
look
at
the
report
itself,
I.
B
I'm
gonna
just
jump
right
down
to
the
methodology
at
the
bottoms,
because
that's
what
interests
me
the
most
and
I
believe
that
is
probably
most
pertinent,
making
sure
that
it
aligns
with
what
we
talked
about
it's
fairly
brief
and
for
those
of
you
who
aren't
looking
at
it
right
now
or
might
be
looking
at
this
video
on
youtube.
The
study
has
three
goals.
B
First,
to
study
the
reason
no
knock
search
warrants
are
obtained.
B
Those
were
certainly
the
three
top
priorities
that
I
remember
having
when
we
spoke
about
this
last,
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
before
we
move
along
with
this.
If
there's
anything
else
either
of
my
colleagues,
I
have
interest
in
either
tweaking
a
little
bit
with
that
methodology,
expanding
on
it
or
narrowing
that
scope
even
further
now's.
The
time
commissioner
sparks.
C
Hey,
I
had
something
I
might
want
to
add
and
I'll
apologize
in
advance
for
not
bringing
it
up
last
meeting,
just
wasn't
on
my
mind
at
the
time,
but
I
thought
about
it
since
then,
but
I
would
be
interested
in
including
maybe
in
the
in
the
methodology,
something
for
determining
the
the
cost
for
doing
knock
versus
no
knock
warrants.
C
So
what
I
was
thinking
of
what,
in
terms
of
I
don't
know,
parameters
would
be
if
there's
a
difference
in
the
number
of
officers
involved
for
either
type
of
warrant,
the
number
of
hours
involved
and
the
the
dollar
figure
like
the
cost
per
hour
for
police
officers.
I
think
that
there
was
a
recent
previous
study
I
can't
remember
which
one,
but
I
think
that
determined
an
approximate
dollars
per
hour
cost
for
each
officer.
Maybe
we
could
use
that.
I
don't
know.
C
I
can't
remember
off
the
top
of
my
head
for
how
what
the
date
was
on
that
study,
but
I
think
that
disclosing
and
and
having
more
public
awareness
of
the
the
cost
to
the
property
owners
and
taxpayers
and
the
city
of
what
these
warrants
are,
would
be
valuable
information.
B
I
think
that's
a
great
perspective
to
have.
I
remember
us
going
on
a
tangent
talking
about
that
to
a
certain
extent,
and
I'm
glad
you
brought
that
back
up
because
definitely
should
not
be
left
on
the
cutting
room
floor.
I
totally
agree,
commissioner
crockett.
Do
you
have
any
opinion
on
that
matter
before
we
have
christopher
speak
on
that.
D
I'll
just
put
my
hand
down
for
a
second
okay,
so
I
think
that
that
that
would
be
an
analysis
that
we
certainly
could
do.
I
think
that
to
get
the
most
accurate
picture
of
what
that
looks
like
we
could
talk
about
having
a
subject
matter:
expert
from
mpd
talk
to
the
subcommittee.
D
I
think
that
would
be
useful.
Another
thing
that
we
could
also
look
at
is
as
a
way
of
gathering
this
data
is.
We
might
want
to
talk
with
someone
at
mpd
about
ways
to
obtain
parts
of
this
data
in
a
more
efficient
way
than
just
looking
at
the
search
warrants
themselves.
D
B
Yeah
general
head
nods.
Yes,
please
in
terms
of
this
report,
and
I
would
love
to
hear
advice
from
the
clerk
on
this.
Do
we
need
to
amend
this
in
a
particular
way
to
add
a
fourth
line
to
this
report
in
order
in
order
for
it
to
be
received
and
filed,
or
because
this
is
more
of
an
outline
from
the
staff's
perspective?
B
If
we've
had
a
conversation
and
a
direction
you
know
initiated,
do
we
not
have
to
amend
this
in
any
sort
of
way.
B
Okay,
then
christopher,
is
it
enough
to
say
you
know
adding
line
four,
comparing
the
financial
costs
of
no
knock
warrants
versus
announced
warrants,
both
in
terms
of
costs
to
the
property
owner
as
well
as
cost
to
the
taxpayer?
Is
that
enough
detail
for
you.
D
D
A
B
B
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
those
two
points
encompass
both
taxpayer
costs,
which
would
be
0.4
property
owner
costs,
which
would
be
0.5.
Okay,
with
that
those
two
additional
points,
they're
being
amended
again,
I'm
I'm
just
that
loss
on
the
procedure
or
procedure
of
this,
because
it's
a
report
is
this:
something
that
we
need
to
vote
on.
Madam
clerk.
B
In
order
for
it
to
officially
be
included
into
this
report,.
B
Okay,
could
I
hear
a
motion
to
include
such
two
points
as
an
amendment
to
this
report.
B
B
B
That
was
that
was
the
only
additional
thing
that
you
know
I
wanted
to
make
sure
we
had
a
conversation
about
opening
back
up
to
the
general
topic
of
debate
of
this
research
and
study
proposal.
Overall,
are
there
thoughts
comments
that
are
relevant
to
this?
No
knock
search
warrant
study
commissioner
sparks.
C
I
know
that
we
were
we're,
including
one
of
the
things
that
we're
looking
at
is
the
success
of
the
no
knock
search
warrant
from
the
law
enforcement
perspective,
and
I
saw
the
language
in
here
about
arrests,
and
I-
and
maybe
it
just
made
me
wonder
if
we
were
gonna,
look
at
if
we're,
defining
success
of
an
announced
warrant
versus
a
no
knock
warrant
as
as
just
arrests
or
if
we
would
look
at
something
else
to
determine
if,
if
a
warrant
was
successful,
maybe
not
arrests,
but
maybe
if
charges
were
brought.
C
One
thing
that
I
thought
of
was
that
if
police
departments
can
arrest
people
all
the
time,
even
without
a
cause,
I
mean
they're
not
supposed
to,
but
we've
seen
that
I
don't
know
how
many
times
in
2020
and
2021
at
protests
of
that
kind
of
thing.
People
just
get
arrested
and
then
released
later
with
no
charges.
Are
we
defining
that
as
success?
It
doesn't
feel
very
successful
to
me.
Maybe
there's
something
else
we
can
look
at
when
we
do
the
study.
B
Yeah,
I'm,
I
would
love
to
hear
christopher
your
thoughts
on
that.
D
So
when
it
comes
to
search
warrants
done
on
a
property,
I
think
one
thing
just
worth
keeping
in
mind
is
that
for
a
criminal,
criminal
charge
or
criminal
case,
they
would
have
to
prove
the
prosecutor
have
to
prove
that
beyond
a
reasonable
doubt,
a
particular
person
possessed
an
item
which
is
illegal,
so
there
are
instances
where
drugs
could
be
found
in
a
property,
but
they
cannot
be
tied
to
an
individual.
D
So
that's
just
one
area
that
I
would
point
out
to
I
mean
we
certainly
could
look
at
options
for
seeing
if
a
case
was
charged.
That
might
be
a
bit
more
difficult
to
do
from
you
know.
If
someone
is
charged,
that's
public
if
something
isn't
charged.
The
reasons
for
doing
so
are
not
public,
so
it
might
be
a
bit
more
difficult
for
us
to
narrow
down
the
reason
for
that
something
else
which
would
potentially
exist.
D
I
would
have
to
do
research
and
to
figure
out
if,
if
that
pool
of
data
would
be
a
way,
something
that
we
could
cross-reference
again-
and
this
is
all
stuff
that
would
be
with
the
court
and
from
a
perspective
of
mpd
data.
These
are
decisions
that
are
being
made
by
the
county,
attorney's
office,
so
they're
not
not
made
by
the
same
agency,
and
then
the
courts
will
be
the
ones
to
rule
on
it.
So
there
is.
D
B
I
I
did
when
I
was
looking
at
this
initial
this
report,
the
first
time
that
I
was
looking
at
it,
the
two
things
that
I
assume
we're
going
to
talk
about
in
time,
we've
already
kind
of
touched
on
them
a
little
bit,
but
specifically
writing
out
and
making
sure
that
both
this
group
here,
as
well
as
the
public,
have
a
firm
understanding
of
the
specific
data
sources
that
we're
pulling
from
and
then
again
cart
before
the
horse,
but
eventually
the
analysis
methods,
the
way
in
which
we're
actually
taking
that
data,
and
you
know
the
way
in
which
we're
manipulating
the
data
to
make
it
present
in
an
eloquent
way.
B
The
points
that
we're
trying
to
make
in
this
report.
I
don't
know
if
that
necessarily
needs
to
be
here.
You
know
in
this
proposal,
but
at
some
point
I
think
it
is
crucial
that
we
we
look
at
that
and
at
least
from
the
you
know
commissioner's
perspective,
we're
able
to
vet
that
work
to
make
sure
that
you
know
the
you
know,
as
as
representatives
of
the
community,
we're
evaluating
that
appropriately
to
make
sure
that
it
holds
the
water
that
we
all
want
it
to
hold
right.
B
Is
that
from
your
perspective,
christopher?
Is
that
something
that
we
should
try
to
work
into
this
proposal
prior
to
you
going
down
that
path
of
data
collection?
Or
is
that
something
that
we
can
save
for?
You
know
future
meetings
through
the
summer
and
make
sure
that
we
have
a
firm
understanding
of
you
know
where
you
are
along
in
the
process
rather
than
preventing
you
from
doing
it
in
the
first
place,.
D
So
I
think,
just
from
from
my
perspective,
it
would
be
useful,
as
the
report
is
developed
for
us
to
state
exactly
where
the
data
is
coming
from,
as
you
say,
and
what
range
we're
looking
at.
So
if
we,
if
we
are
restraining
ourselves
from
any
particular
date
range
or
if
data
is
being
excluded,
what
data
is
good
and
why
and
make
sure
that
is
in
the
report,
as
you
say
so
that
anyone
looking
at
it
can
see
the
analysis
being
made
and
what,
if
any,
data
we
are
filtering?
D
And
then
I
also
think
that,
when
it
comes
to
any
recommendations
of
the
subcommittee
or
of
the
the
full
committee
using
the
data,
you
know
that
would
need
to
be
be.
Part
of.
It
would
be
like
why
these
changes
in
policy
are
being
proposed.
Based
on
on
the
data
we've
gathered,
and
I
would
also
invite
andrew
hawkins
to
add
anything
else,
as
this
is
the
first
kind
of
study
that
I've
worked
on
yeah
with
this
office.
E
Yeah,
no,
I
think
christopher
covered
it
fairly.
Well,
I
mean
the
thing:
is
you
know
when
we
get
a
methodology,
we
want
to
have
something:
that's
essentially
not
set
in
stone,
but
like
we
don't
want
to
be
tweaking
it
significantly.
You
know
along
the
way,
because
then
it
seems
like,
as
opposed
to
doing
an
actual
audit,
we're
doing
something
with
kind
of
a
desired
outcome,
and
we
just
keep
changing
those.
E
You
know
like
the
scope
until
we
get
what
we
want,
but
at
the
same
time
like
the
idea
that
some
new
things
might
come
up
along
the
way.
I
don't
know,
that's
not
inconceivable
so
yeah,
I
mean
christopher
I'll
defer
to
you,
but
as
far
as
some
of
the
sources
and
everything
it's
I
mean
that
is
kind
of
an
expanding
list,
and
some
of
it
still
depends
on
you
know.
If
we
can
have
you
know
some
mpd
come
help,
it's
possible,
they
might
know
some.
E
You
know
methods
to
get
some
of
the
things
that
we're
looking
for,
that
we
didn't
know
about
right
now
or
that
you
know
we've
been
planning,
you
know
for
an
alternative
methods.
So
in
terms
of
just
the
data
itself,
I
think
that,
as
long
as
we've
identified
what
we
want
the
sources
you
know,
I
don't
think
we
need
to
call
out
an
exhaustive
list
of
everywhere.
It's
going
to
come
from
since
that'll
be
documented
fairly.
Well,
the
final
you
know
the
final
report.
B
And
to
your
point,
I
do
believe
you
know
that
was
the
whole
point
of
of
today
and
you
know
receiving
this
report.
We
have
successfully
defined,
you
know
the
scope
of
the
study
and
what
this
audit
committee
is
interested
in
looking
at
now.
Those
five
points
is
the
limit
of
our
scope
for
the
time
being,
unless
we
have
considerable
reason
to
expand
that
I
want
to
make
sure
we
are
not
adding
unnecessary
work
onto
what
you're
trying
to
do
on
behalf
of
the
subcommittee.
B
So
I
think
it's
it's
perfectly
fair
for
us
to
you
know,
ideally
by
next
meeting
we
can
have
not
necessarily
an
exhaustive
list,
but
at
least
a
a
good
baseline
of
what
resources
are
available
again.
I
know
we've
kind
of
talked
about
them
already
in
in
previous
meetings,
but
getting
you
know
to
specific
points
that
are
in
at
least
written
down,
so
that
way
we're
having
a
paper
trail,
and
we
can
eventually
cobble
this
all
together
into
a
final
report.
B
D
Pcoc,
that
sounds
good
and
by
yeah
by
next
meeting.
I
plan
to
have
at
least
the
preliminary
data
that
we're
looking
for
in
these
in
these
areas
and
then,
if,
if
anything,
does
need
to
be
tweaked,
we
could
certainly
do
that.
But
I
I
think
that
you
know
getting
started
on
gathering
the
data
and
seeing
what
resources
we
have
is
is
definitely
a
good,
a
good
way
to
go.
Okay,.
B
B
Okay,
so
I'm
just
I'm
more
than
happy
with
that.
Please
receive
and
file
this
report
as
amended.
B
All
right,
the
final
order
of
unfinished
business
is
the
matter
of
coaching.
B
I
know
when
we
last
left
this.
There
was
a
particular
hiccup
regarding
some
litigation
on
behalf
of
the
city
of
minneapolis
and
in
coaching
since
it's
an
emerging
issue.
I
would
ask
andrew
if
you
could
hop
back
on
just
give
us
either
if
there's
nothing
new,
give
us
just
a
quick
30.
Second
brief
of
where
the
current
status
quo
is.
If
there
is
something
that
has
been
recently
updated
in
terms
of
coaching,
I
would
love
to
hear
about
it.
E
Sure
so,
as
far
as
my
like,
my
latest
understanding
is
that
the
litigation
is
still
ongoing.
So
there's
not
a
lot
of
changes
happening
there.
However,
I
believe
last
time
I
kind
of
hinted
at
this
too,
but
we've
got
a
number
of
various
kind
of
tableau
and
publication
dashboards.
You
know
some
that
we've
used
internally
that
we've
used
in
the
past
and
so
christopher,
and
I
have
actually
been
meeting
now
that
he's
got
access
and
the
ability
to
start
to
work
with
some
of
those
to
build
some
of
them
out.
E
So
I
think,
there's
you
know
like
there's
still,
there
is
still
actually
like
work
ongoing,
it's
just
a
matter
of
kind
of
like
what
things
look
like
once
we're
all
done,
because
in
order
to
get
them
to
be
functional
and
you
know
and
provide
what
we
want
them
to
provide,
it's
like
we
have
to
kind
of
you
know
like
understand
it's
like.
E
Are
we
still
in
the
operating
within
the
same
universe
or
whether
some
changes
in
terms
of
how
things
are
classified,
because
we
have
to
modify
the
way
that
they're
pulling
some
of
the
stuff,
but
so
the
work
on
those
had
continued?
I
mean
I'm.
I
would
think
too.
Like
mr
perry,
you
couldn't
correct
me
if
I
think
timelines
are
off,
but
if
that's
something
where
we
can
have,
you
know,
like
almost
a
mock-up
version,
that's
that's
done.
I
don't
think
it
would
be
an
issue.
E
I
mean
there's,
probably
a
way
to
do
it,
where
we
could
kind
of
just
to
show
you
what
it
would
conceivably
look
like
you
know,
and
if
we,
if
we
had
to
do
that,
I
mean
it'd,
be
easy
enough.
I
think
to
do
with
just
like
spec
data
yeah
or
maybe
we
don't
pull
the
actual
universe.
We
just
kind
of
you
know
like
just
do
a
mock-up
to
make
sure
that
it
would
populate
all
the
different
areas.
You
can
see
what
that
look
like,
so
I
think
that's
something
that
we
can.
E
We
could
still
keep
working
on
and
pushing
forward
if
that
would
be
like
helpful.
Other
group.
B
Oh,
absolutely,
I
think
it
would
do
you
have
a
rough
idea
on
timeline,
maybe
not
even
down
to
specific
days
but
like
in
terms
of
x
weeks
out
x
months
out.
What's
that,
what's
your
expectation
in
terms
of
a
timeline
again.
E
Christopher
I'm
taking
liberties
with
your
schedule
here
so
again
feel
free
to
to
jump
in
and
stop
me,
but
I
mean
I
feel
like
for
the
one
that
we
have
if
we
wanted
to
just
go
the
route
of
I
mean
some
of
the
functionality
is
already
there.
It's
just
like
the
big
lift.
E
You
know
like
because
we
we've
used
this
in
the
past,
so
the
biggest
lift
is
going
to
be
importing
everything
in
the
like
from
when
it's
stopped
to
now,
because
we
had
to
use,
we
have
to
use
an
intermediary
database
to
do
that,
because
I
see
you
clean
up
all
the
not
public
stuff
and
make
sure
that
everything
that
it's
pulling
is
correct.
So
I
think
that's
really
the
biggest
part
of
the
left,
but
the
functionality
is
already
there.
E
So
if
I
mean
in
terms
of
a
mockup
for
what
it
looks
like
that,
you
know
if
we
just
used
again
like
spec
data
just
to
show
it
you
know,
like
would
be
year
over
year.
That
seems
like
something
out
can
probably
get
done
here
within
the
next
month.
I
wouldn't
you
know
I
would
assume
so
I
mean
it's
not
a
game
we
need
to
publish.
E
Maybe
we
could
just
do
either
the
screenshots
or,
if
there's
a
way
to
just
publish
it
kind
of
a
demo
version
of
it,
so
you
can
play
around
with
it,
because
I
think
you
know
the
thinking
with
this
too
was
that
you
know
from
that.
E
Like
again,
just
because
you
know
back
to
the
point
of
like
everything
has
to
have
a
purpose
so
like
the
reason
that
we're
doing
this
is
to
basically
build
out
the
like
that
universe,
so
that
we
could
kind
of
look
at
like
what
the
whole
landscape
looks
like
and
then
potentially,
research
and
study
in
that
area
correct.
I
want
to
make
sure
my
history
is
not.
B
Yes,
I
I
agree
the
the
entire
point
of
why
we're
talking
about
the
dashboard
is
so
that
way.
We
can,
you
know
to
remind
the
public,
we
had
a
presentation
at
the
overall
pcoc
meeting.
B
I
think
it
was
what
may
or
april
possibly
may
on
coaching
where
we
got
a
fundamental
understanding
from
various
perspectives
on
where
coaching
was
at
both
in
terms
of
mpd,
specifically
coaching
as
a
tool
that
is
used
for
state
employees
in
general
and
got
to
peek
a
little
bit
at
the
players
that
go
about
determining
coaching
and
its
practice.
B
And
what
then,
once
the
referral
to
our
audit
committee
took
this
up?
B
We
started
talking
about
okay,
we
we
have
an
understanding
of
the
policy
around
it,
but
we
want
to
make
sure
practice
matches
policy
and
our
specific
concern
is
the
areas
where
practice
does
not
meet
policy
and
that's
how
we
got
around
to
the
idea
of
this
dashboard,
because
there
have
been
instances
where
we
have
access
to
certain
levels
of
information
in
aggregate
form
and
at
the
end
of
the
day,
what
it
seems
this
committee
is
interested
in
is
not
necessarily
the
intent
of
coaching
but
its
impact
and
finding
out
the
ways
in
which
the
impact
of
coaching
might
incentivize
certain
behaviors
and
practices,
either
through
the
process
of
discipline.
B
Overall
and
again,
I'm
using
the
colloquial
term
discipline
and-
and
I'm
basically
contrasting
that
with
transparency
and
time
efficiency
and
the
final
decision
of
this
group
in
previous
meetings
was,
let's
start
with
the
dashboard.
B
We
would
love
to
get
an
understanding
of
the
updated
version
of
that
dashboard
and
then,
from
that
information
we
can
start
developing
a
concept
and
an
eventual
proposal
of
research
and
study
like
we
have
with
the
no
knock
warrants
that
we
just
passed
in
this
meeting
earlier,
is
that
where
everybody
else
is
at
that's
that's
where
my
okay
seeing
general
head
nods.
B
So
with
that
in
mind-
and
we
just
you
know-
we
have
heard
it
will
take
about
a
month,
then
if
that
is
the
case
by
next
meeting,
if
we
could
have
an
update
and
a
show
of
that
that
dashboard
in
whatever
state
that
it's
in
you
know
it,
you
know
whatever
is
able
to
be
publicly
available
and
presentable
to
us.
That
would
be
great,
and
I
think
that
would
be
a
great
next
step
in
this
process.
For
the
coaching
part
of
our.
B
Great
any
other
comments
from
the
commissioners
on
the
topic
of.
B
Coaching
all
right
guys.
I
know
I've
held
us
late
some
days,
but
it
looks
like
we're
gonna
leave
early
today
there
are
no
other
on
our
agenda
and
since
we
have
concluded
all
agenda
items
without
objection,
I
will
declare
that
this
meeting
of
the
audit
committee
is
adjourned.