►
From YouTube: August 16, 2021 Planning Commission
Description
Additional information at
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov
B
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I
will
read
through
the
agenda
numbers
and
I
will
say
whether
or
not
the
item
has
been
slated
for
consent
or
discussion
consent.
Just
briefly
are
those
that
will
be
passed
without
discussion
according
to
staff
recommendation
and
discussion
items
will
be
the
ones
that
we
will
hear
presentation
and
public
hearing
on.
C
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B
A
E
A
H
C
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B
E
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B
C
Have
moved
forward
as
the
staff
had
recommended
on
the
agenda
we
are
now
moving
into
onto
the
discussion
items.
We
will
hear
presentation
from
staff,
then
we
will
have
a
discussion
on
that
item.
We
will
open
the
public
hearing
and
potentially
continue
discussion,
and
then
we
will
vote
on
those
items.
E
J
J
And
this
is
a
picture
of
the
existing
site
before
the
civil
unrest
from
penn
next
slide.
Please-
and
this
is
the
view
from
dowling,
as
you
can
see,
there
are
many
containers
along
the
alley
side
and
the
applicant
would
be
proposing
to
build
a
trash
enclosure
as
part
of
this
project.
Next
slide,
please,
and
so
here's
the
a
drawing
of
the
proposed
building
so
it'd
be
set
further
back
from
penn
avenue,
north
and
it'd
be
a
little
bit
longer.
So
it'd
take
up
more
more
of
the
entire
width
of
the
entire
lot.
J
There
would
be
a
new
parking
area,
bike,
rack
and
additional
landscaping
proposed
as
part
of
this
project,
because
it's
a
gas
station
it
requires
a
conditional
use
permit
and
then
there's
also
going
to
be
a
separate
entrance
for
a
tobacco
shop
and
because
there's
two
separate
entrances
to
the
building
and
there's
a
parking
lot
in
between
the
building
and
the
public
street.
That's
considered
a
shopping
center
and
the
shopping
center
itself
requires
a
conditional
use
permit
as
well
and
then
site
plan
review
is
required
for
any
automobile
services
uses
next
slide.
Please.
J
J
Also,
there's
a
trash
enclosure
that
you
can
see
on
the
west
elevation
and
that
would
take
care
of
the
screening
for
any
outside
trash
next
slide.
Please
here's
the
floor
plan
of
the
proposed
site.
So,
as
you
can
see,
there
is
a
separate
entrance
for
the
tobacco
on
the
dowling
side
of
the
street
of
the
building,
and
then
the
remainder
would
just
be
the
retail
area
walking
cooler
deli
for
the
gas
station
next
slide.
Please.
J
The
blank
wall
facing
the
alley,
the
durability
of
exterior
materials
they're,
just
short
of
their
tree
and
minimum
square
footage
of
their
overall
landscaping
requirement,
and
then
they
also
have
alternative
compliance
for
some
of
their
parking
area.
Landscaping.
Screening
design
next
slide,
please,
the
conditions
of
approval
that
staff
is
recommending
is
just
to
make
sure
that
the
six
bike
parking
spaces
are
implemented
as
proposed
and
that
they
do
meet
some.
J
They
mitigate
the
blank
wall
on
the
alley
side
by
not
only
adding
that
four
foot
stone
base,
but
also
also
through
additional
landscaping
that
would
provide
year-round
landscaping
and
we're
also
recommending
additional
canopy
trees
and
fencing
and
shrubs
to
to
enhance
the
screening
of
the
site
next
side.
Please,
oh
actually,
you
know
what
this
is
the
end.
Sorry,
so
this
is
the
end
of
my
presentation.
C
E
J
Thank
you.
That's
a
good
question,
good
question,
so
the
requirement
for
the
site
is
for
trees
just
based
on
the
building
footprint
and
the
lot
size
they're
proposing
one,
and
so
two
additional
would
bring
them
to
three.
So
that
means
there's
still
one
short
they're
still
requesting
alternative
compliance,
but
staff
found
that
three
would
be
a
reasonable
requirement.
Given
the
layout
of
the
site.
I
J
F
Yes,
I
will
do
my
best
here,
so
he
had
a
moratorium
on
tobacco
shops.
That
moratorium
led
to
a
city-wide
study
and
a
few
amendments,
one
of
those
being
a
limitation
on
tobacco
products
shops.
So
there
are
certain
types
of
tobacco
products
that
can
be
sold
just
accessory
to
a
convenience
store.
I
can't
say
for
sure
what
all
of
those
are.
F
So
it's
the
way
the
building
is
designed
that
requires
the
conditional
use
permits.
The
fact
that
it's
to
accommodate
a
tobacco
shop
is
in
order
to
meet
the
licensing
requirements
to
allow
them
to
have
a
tobacco
shop,
so
the
tobacco
shop
itself
does
not
require
a
land
use
application
and
isn't
really
one
of
the
things
being
considered
by
the
planning
commission
tonight,
it's
more
the
actual
physical
design
of
the
store.
G
Thank
you
president.
So
excuse
me.
I
am
wanted
to
take
this
off
of
consent
for
a
couple
of
reasons,
because
I
think
there's
a
large
community,
a
large
amount
of
people
that
don't
know
about
what
the
plans
are
for
that
particular
gas
station.
It's
a
gas
station
that
I
frequented
quite
a
bit
prior
to
the
fire
and
it
was
definitely
needed
a
facelift.
G
That's
for
sure-
and
I
appreciate
you
know
that
the
architect
and
the
owners
are
gonna
rebuild
there.
We
need
that
gas
station
because
I've
had
to
travel
outside
of
my
neighborhood
to
get
gas
several
times
for
a
host
of
different
reasons,
and
some
of
those
reasons
are
some
of
the
reasons
I'm
a
little
concerned
about
some
of
the
choices
that
they're
making.
But
again,
that's
not
my
place
on
this
commission
that
I
just
want
to
put
that
out
there,
but
I
want
to
bring
it
up.
G
I
want
to
put
it
out
here
so
that
folks
are
in
a
position
to
know
that
they
can
actually
comment
on
this
project.
One
once
it
goes
to
the
city
correct.
Is
that
correct
that
the
people
in
the
neighborhood
in
cleveland
victory,
they
still
have
an
opportunity
to
voice
their
opinions
and
and
have
some
kind
of
of?
I
don't
know,
just
be
able
to
to
to
comment
on
this
project
because,
basically
we're
just
saying:
okay,
yeah
the
building
go
ahead
and
build
it.
G
F
Commissioner
cabrini,
we
did
receive
a
lot
of
correspondence
right
before
this
meeting
that
unfortunately
had
the
address
wrong.
So
the
commission
didn't
receive
that
correspondence
before
the
meeting
started.
I
think
the
clerk's
office
is
working
on
getting
that
all
out
to
you
right
now,
but
we
did
receive
several
comments
that
were
referred
to
an
address
on
queen
avenue
north.
Those
are
now
included
as
a
matter
of
the
public
record
and
will
be
sent
to
the
commission,
but
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
that
and
then
I'll
let
may
ling
respond
to
the
next.
J
Yeah,
this
is
the
appropriate
time
for
any
comments
really
related
to
the
project
to
come
in
and
to
be
reviewed
by
the
commissioners,
and
actually
I
just
saw
that
the
that
your
emails
probably
do
have
those
comments
by
now,
in
addition
to
the
one
that
you
should
receive
this
afternoon.
But
this
is,
unless
there's
an
appeal,
the
city
planning
commission
does
have
the
authority
to
make
the
final
decision
on
these
applications.
G
J
Anybody
may
appeal,
so
anybody
in
the
neighborhood
may
appeal
the
application,
also
as
part
of
all
of
our
land
use
applications
we're
required
to
send
notices
to
the
affected
neighborhood
groups,
and
in
this
case
there
are
actually
four
neighborhood
groups.
Cleveland
victory
fall
and
weber
camden,
so
all
of
them
were
notified
prior
to
the
notices
or
like
as
part
of
the
public
hearing,
notices
for
this
particular
meeting.
J
G
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B
K
B
The
only
one
addition
in
it
because
the
owners
would
need
to
be
competitive
to
other
gas
stations
so
not
having
a
tobacco
would
be.
You
know,
declining
for
them
in
in
income
most
likely.
So
one
of
the
reason
of
having
this
kind
of
shop
is
to
stay
competitive
on
the
market
and
with
other
similar
businesses.
B
C
E
I
lived
about
two
blocks
from
there
and
remember
it
burning
down
very
vividly,
and
I
remember
some
of
the
comments
from
the
other
neighbors
have
mentioned
just
that
the
trash
on
site
has
been
reduced,
just
like
the
littering
in
the
neighborhood,
since,
unfortunately
it
was
burned
down.
So
I
guess
my
question
is
if
we
could
either
add
like
a
larger
garbage,
can
to
the
site
or
a
question
for
sap.
Maybe
if
there
is
a
bus,
stop
that's
used
really
frequently
on
that
corner
and
there's
no
public
garbage
can
on
that
intersection.
E
Even
though
that's
an
intersection
of
really
two
really
major
roads,
so
is
there
a
way
that
we
could
put
in
a
request
like
public
works
or
something
for
a
public
garbage
can
on
that
corner,
because
I
I
have
seen
litter
in
that
area
and
it
just
doesn't
seem
like
there's
a
really
convenient
place
to
dispose
of
garbage.
So
if
the
applicant
couldn't
do
it,
could
the
city
do
that.
J
I
don't
believe
that
sorry.
Thank
you,
commissioner.
I
don't
believe
that
we
have
the
authority
to
require
that
garbage
can,
if,
especially
if
it's
in
the
public
right-of-way,
something
that
the
city
maintains
the.
I
know
that
the
applicant
has
built
their
floor
plan
around
their
trash
enclosure.
So
you
would,
I
would
ask
the
applicant
to
speak
to
that.
That
would
be
possibly
a
pretty
large
change
for
them
if
they,
if
they
did
change
the
size
of
their
trash
bins,
so
I
would
defer
to
them,
but
miss
helene.
F
E
F
Don't
know
the
answer
to
that,
but
I
hope
you
figure
it
out
and
you
can
also
I
mean.
Sometimes
we
will
take
conditions
of
approval.
That
just
say
you
know
the
applicant
shall
work
with
staff
to
limit
the
amount
of
litter
on
site.
We
do
have
specific
development
standards
that
relate
to
litter,
pickup,
specifically.
L
J
However,
this
is
subject
to
our
pdr
process,
so
they've
gone
through
preliminary
development
review,
they
have
a
civil
firm
that
is
retained
to
to
handle
any
utilities
and
stormwater
management
that
might
be
required.
But
beyond
that,
we
wouldn't
really
be
getting
into
that
on
our
end,
but
they
will
have
to
comply
with
anything.
That's
required
by
our
public
works
and
storm
water
management
staff.
I
J
J
Well,
yes,
the
premises
all
adjacent
streets,
sidewalks
and
alleys,
and
all
sidewalks
and
alleys
within
100
feet
shall
be
inspected
regularly
regularly
for
purposes
of
removing
any
litter
found
there
on.
So
you
we
could
kind
of
reference
that
too,
but
I'm
happy
to
work
with
the
clerk
for
this
meeting
to
make
sure
that
it's
reflecting
the
intent
of
the
commission.
I
C
I
L
Thank
you
chairman
one
more
question
on
the
stormwater.
I
I'm
just
trying
to
figure
out
from
the
building
where
that
goes.
It
looks
like
there's
some
scuppers
off
the
back
side
of
the
building,
which
I
don't
see
located
on
the
elevations
minor
point,
but
just
make
sure,
as
it
goes
through
the
rest
of
the
process,
how
that's
collected
at
the
ground,
plane
and
where
it
goes
into
the
public
way
needs
to
be
managed.
So
I
don't
see
any
of
that
on
the
plans
yet
so.
G
C
C
H
I
C
B
I
C
J
C
C
B
I
I
C
K
So
we
just
recently
had
a
very
good
discussion
about
this
at
committee
of
the
whole,
I
won't
go
into
as
much
length
as
we
did
at
that
time,
but
suffice
it
to
say
this
is
the
code
amendment
to
codify
our
regulations
regarding
exterior
building
materials
and
the
proposal
that
you'll
see
tonight
is
the
same
proposal
that
you
looked
at
at
committee
of
the
whole.
You
can.
B
K
The
next
slide
so
again
to
remind
you
where
we
are
today.
This
is
the
current
guidelines
for
exterior
materials
that
we've
been
applying
since
about
2014.
So
just
over
seven
years,
we
have
up
to
this
point
categorized
materials
as
listed
here
and
then
allowed
certain
percentages
of
those
materials
based
on
certain
elevations
of
the
proposed
development.
K
K
So,
given
that
some
of
these
materials
are
relatively
new
to
the
development
landscape
in
the
city,
we
also
did
some
surveying
to
see
how
those
buildings
were
building
up
over
time
with
regards
to
durability
and
then
discovered
that
there
were
some
issues,
particularly
with
materials
that
were
subject
to
moisture
infiltration
and
failure
due
to
either
for
installation
or
some
other
factor
so
you'll
see
on
the
top
left-hand
side
there's
a
project.
This
is
an
affordable
project
in
south
minneapolis.
K
K
25
years
of
the
building's
construction
date
next
slide,
so
it's
worth
reminding
ourselves
and
understanding
where
costs
fall
when
materials
fail
on
multi-family
projects
in
the
twin
cities.
So
when
we're
talking
about
rental
units,
those
costs
are
generally
passed
on
to
the
renter
in
the
form
of
higher
monthly
rents.
K
We're
talking
about
subsidized,
affordable
rentals,
which
are
often
subsidized
by
the
city
itself.
Costs
can
be
passed
on
to
the
public
in
the
form
of
public
subsidies
and
grants
to
make
necessary
repairs
as
a
lot
of
nonprofit
developers,
do
not
maintain
large
cash
reserves
to
fund
unexpected
maintenance
costs
and
then
with
owner-occupied
structures
like
the
one
that
we
just
looked
at
on
bryant,
which
is
a
condominium
building.
Those
private
property
units
would
be
responsible
for
those
repair
costs.
K
Secondly,
application
method:
how's,
the
material
applied
to
the
facade
is
that
application
method
standardized
by
the
manufacturer
and
does
the
product
itself
come
with
a
facade
application
method
that
is
standardized
and
then,
of
course,
appearance
and
compatibility.
So
what
does
the
material
look
like
and
how
compatible
is
it
with
the
existing
building
stock
and
how
does
it
hold
up
over
time
aesthetically
with
basic
maintenance?
K
And
then,
of
course,
as
we
always
like
to
remind
the
commission
that
alternative
compliance
would
be
an
option
in
all
these
cases.
So
site
command
review
allows
for
alternative
compliance
for
any
of
their
standards
without
a
variance.
So
were
there
to
be
a
material
that
was
not
classified
or
the
applicant
to
propose
something
that
did
not
meet
the
strict
standards.
K
K
To
point
out,
specifically,
the
current
regulations
limit
most
fibrous
inlet
products
to
30
percent
of
any
elevation
with
those
regulations
would
expand
that
to
up
to
70
and
then
metal
panel,
which
is
a
broad
category
of
exterior
materials,
would
be
elevated
from
75
to
100
of
any
elevation.
So
we
feel
like
that,
provides
a
lot
of
flexibility
for
folks
who
are
more
cost
conscious.
With
regard
to
this
particular
issue
and
moving
forward
next
slide.
K
C
H
Thank
you
first
question,
so
you
said
that
this
is
more
flexible
than
previous
guidelines
were,
but
that
that's
for
two
materials,
but
for
wood.
It
gets
a
lot
more
stringent.
Doesn't
it
or
am
I
reading
something
wrong
because
I
thought
so
what
is
category
three?
So
that's
30
and
then,
if
I
remember
right,
the
previous
slide
said
that
it
was
previously
75.
K
Yes,
that's
right,
so
that's
a
change
would
or
you
know,
untreated
wood
is
not
a
product
that
we
see
applied
in
commonly
in
multi-family
projects
or
larger
projects.
It's
typically
applied
in
the
form
of
like
cedar,
lap,
siding
on
single-family
homes
or
smaller
residential
projects,
which
this
regulation
would
not
apply
to.
K
It
would
apply
to
any
non-residential
new
construction
project.
So
if
someone
wanted
to
build
a
new
park,
pavilion
that
was
subject
to
site
fan
review
it
would
these
standards
would
apply
to
that?
Yes,
cross-laminated
timber
frame
buildings.
We
talked
about
last
time.
That's
a
structural
technology,
that's
generally
enclosed
within
the
building,
so
that
would
not
be
subject
to
exterior
building
materials.
Regulation.
H
B
H
K
C
M
M
However,
in
summary,
the
current
guidelines
from
our
perspective,
they're
inconsistent
with
the
state
of
minnesota
building
code
and
they
had
arbitrarily
favored
certain
types
of
fiber
cement
and
they
also
limited
builder
and
architect,
flexibility
to
create
affordable
structures
and
and
basically
use
the
benefit
of
the
the
range
of
materials
that
are
out
there
in
designs
for
multi-family
construction
to
go
to
the
next
slide.
We'll
deal
with
each
of
these
points
separately.
M
This
standard,
without
you
know,
going
through
that
in
great
detail,
includes
specific
tests
on
retaining
strength
and
exposure
to
cyclic
environmental
conditions,
such
as
heat
and
rain,
under
extreme
conditions,
as
well
as
freezing
thought
and
thawing,
which
is
important
for
the
minnesota
built
environment
and
what
I've
listed
there
basically
are
all
of
the
types
of
fibers
and
cladding
that
have
been
used,
at
least
to
our
knowledge
in
the
area
meet
this
standard,
astm
c1186
type
a,
and
this
is
again
a
material
standard.
It
doesn't
deal
with
installation
and
defects
and
installation.
C
M
It
does
tend
to
cost
less
to
as
a
material
as
well
as
as
well
as
to
install
given
its
efficiencies
and
the
design
of
the
material.
It's
much
lighter
weight,
and
that
has
a
big
impact
on
or
can
have
a
big
impact
on.
Overall
project
costs.
So
you
know
versus
other
types
of
materials
that
are
currently
in
class
one.
They
can
save
overall
project
costs
by
10
or
even
more
we've.
You
know
seen
analyses
where
it's
more
in
the
in
the
20
range.
M
However,
I
think
it's
safe
to
say
a
10
savings,
an
overall
cost
which
can
make
a
big
difference
in
things
like
affordable
housing,
units
senior
living
communities
and
student
housing
options
which
are
all
growing
parts
and
there's
growing
demand
for
these.
This
type
of
housing
and,
in
addition,
you
know
some
of
the
material
cyber
super
materials
that
have
you
know
that
meat
that
are
available
on
the
market
are
imported
and
so
fiber
cement.
That
is
made
domestically
like
james
hardy's,
fiber
cement
products.
M
In
other
words,
you
have
to
basically
order
specific
sizes,
they're
cut
in
a
factory
over
in
europe
shipped
shipped
in
a
container
over
to
the
us,
and
then
you
have
to
make
sure
that
you
know
it's
sort
of
the
extreme
case
of
measure
twice
cut
once
you,
you
know
you.
It
could
very
well
end
up
that
the
materials
that
you
have
cut
don't
actually
work
on
site.
You
have
to
make
the
modifications
for
that
situation.
M
So,
however,
the
main
point
here
is
that
there
is
a
market
need
for
using
fiber
cement
on
these
types
of
buildings,
and
we
think
fiber
cement
is
is
more
than
adequate
in
terms
of
its
material
durability
and
also
allowing
for
more
flexible
design
options.
You
know,
if
you
build
everything
made
out
of
brick,
then
everything
looks
like
a
brick
building
next
slide.
Please.
M
Okay,
so
james
hardy's,
five
percent
cladding
in
particular,
has
had
a
very
long
history
of
performance
in
the
us
and
canada.
You
know
we're
currently
on
over
eight
million
homes
in
north
america
and
fiber
cement.
Our
fiber
cement
products
have
been
around
since
the
early
1990s
we're.
We
offer
a
very
excellent
warranty
for
fiber
cement,
with
a
30-year
non-prorated
warranty
on
the
substrate,
and
then
our
factory
finish
materials
come
with
a
15-year
warranty.
M
M
It's
certified
for
use
in
wildland
urban
interface
zones
out
in
california
and
oregon
and
the
state
of
washington,
because
it
is
non-combustible
and
there.
If
you
go
to
cardi's
website,
you
will
see
some
testimonials
about
how
the
use
of
fiber
cement
on
homes
in
those
fire
prone
areas
has
actually
led
to.
M
So
we
recognize
the
planning
department's
issues
of
concern
where
they
raised.
You
know
around.
They
raised
around
the
appearance
of
certain
projects
after
after
a
certain
amount
of
years.
I'll
point
out,
the
top
photograph
illustrates
staining
on
a
elevation
that
contains
fiber
cement
last
sighting.
However,
I
would
submit
to
the
the
members
of
the
commission
that,
regardless
of
the
material
that
would
be
used,
the
nature
of
that
stain
has
nothing
to
do
with
the
material.
It's
it's
staining.
M
M
Are
photographs,
but
I
would
submit
to
you
that
it's
the
installation
practice
that
was
the
result
of
some
of
the
issues
that
mr
crandall
pointed
out
in
his
presentation,
not
a
function
of
the
material
itself
and
and
the
point
I
would
like
to
counter
the
commission
to
have
from
this
slide.
Is
that,
regardless
of
the
material,
if
it's
installed
incorrectly
or
if
it's
not
maintained
correctly,
you're.
B
M
M
M
So
I
would
submit
to
the
commission
that
fiber
cement
is
no
more
prone
than
to
these
types
of
degradations
than
any
other
class
1
material.
That's
currently
proposed
so
fiber
cement
because
of
that,
and
because
of
the
impact
that
installation
has
on
the
ultimate
performance
of
the
material
and
maintenance
has
on
the
ultimate
performance
of
material.
M
We
propose
the
way
to
solve.
That
issue
is
with
thorough
and
proper
support
in
the
local
trade
community
to
make
sure
that
these
materials
are
installed
correctly
and
by
by
support.
I
mean
things
like
design
phase
technical
support
with
the
architects
to
make
sure
that
the
architectural
details
are
are
specified
correctly
and
follow
the
instructions.
M
In
addition,
james
hardy
has
invested
quite
a
bit
in
labor-based
development,
in
other
words,
meeting
with
the
different
builders
and
trades
and
contractors
that
install
building
materials
to
ensure
they
understand
our
instructions,
and
so
over
the
years
over
the
course
of
the
last
you
know
couple
decades
we
actually
have
a
fairly
good
relationship
with
those
contractors
and
can
help
ensure
that
those
that
do
talk
to
us
have
the
right
instructions
to
go
to
the
next
slide.
Please.
M
So,
in
short,
you
know
we
are
very
much
invested
in
the
greater
minneapolis
area,
design
and
labor
market.
We
have
eight
staff
professional
staff
located
in
the
minnesota
and
minneapolis
metro
area
that
provided
did
sign,
face,
support,
construction-based
support
and
labor-based
development
and
we're
looking
for
opportunities
to
improve
each
of
those
areas.
M
Next
slide,
please
so
the
next
steps
we
would
like
to
work
with
the
city
of
minneapolis
to
add
fibers
and
cladding
to
class
one
in
the
proposed
exterior
building
material
classifications
and
work
with
the
city
and
the
stakeholders
in
the
minneapolis
area
to
help
further
ensure
that
the
local
trades
have
access
to
the
correct
installation,
instructions
and
the
support
they
need
to
install
these
and
maintain
these
things.
These
materials
properly.
C
C
N
N
I
would
like
to
correct
some
of
the
record
that
mr
crandall
referred
to
not
just
non-profit
but
for-profit.
Affordable
housing
developers
are
an
important
part
of
the
affordable
housing
solution
in
minnesota.
Over
70
percent
of
the
affordable
housing
in
the
state
is
actually
produced
by
for-profit
developers,
and
I
am
part
of
a
coalition
of
18
for-profit
and
non-profit
developers
that
are
advocating
for
continued
affordability
and
material
selection,
as
that
is
also
durable
and
attractive
as
we
move
toward
new
building
sciences.
N
So
I
wanted
to
speak
briefly
to
the
issues
that
mr
crandall
raised.
I'm
particularly
concerned
that
he
couched
cement
fiber
panel
in
some
terms
that
were
less
attractive
than
other
materials.
I
have
built
over
1500
units
of
affordable
housing
in
minneapolis
and
st
paul.
In
the
last
15
years
I
have
used
cement
fiber
panel
and
cement
fiber
lap
siding
extensively
in
all
of
those
buildings
and
have
no
problems
with
any
of
those
materials.
N
At
any
of
our
buildings,
I
don't
have
any
of
the
staining
problems
or
any
of
the
durability
problems
that
mr
crandall
selectively
chose.
I
would
like
to
point
out
he
mentioned
that
you
know
we're
in
an
environment
where
there
are
new
building
materials
and
that's
going
to
be
a
continuing
environment
that
we
work
in
and
it's
important
that
we
continue
to
get
new
building
materials.
N
Cement
fiber
is
a
uniquely
durable,
lightweight,
very,
very
flexible,
adapts
with
colors
extremely
well
and,
most
importantly,
for
me,
it
works
in
a
plane
of
water
proofing
with
a
metal
panel
extremely
well.
The
waterproofing
design
and
the
cross
draining
between
metal
panel
and
cement
fiber
panel
is
extremely
tight
and
very
easy
to
install
and
that's
very
critical
in
terms
of
cost
labor
diversification
and
the
ability
to
quickly
install
material
not
too
long
ago,
maybe
20.
30
years
ago,
we
had
materials
that
were
commonly
used
as
exterior
materials
that
I'm
glad
we
no
longer
use.
N
Commissioner,
commissioners
might
who
are
architecturally
trained,
might
remember,
masonite
or
asphalt,
siding
or
even
vinyl,
siding
and
I'm
glad
those
are
no
longer
products
that
anybody
uses
because
they
were
not
durable,
and
so
we
should
continue
to
embrace
a
new
product.
I
tend
to
think
of
our
cement
fiber
panel
materials
as
50-year
product
with
the
factory
priming
for
sure
I
get
30
year
warranty,
but
I
know
for
a
fact
that
we'll
get
longer
wear
than
just
30
years
and
I've
had
extremely
bad
luck
in
the
installation
of
brick
in
a
number
of
buildings.
N
In
closing.
I
just
want
to
say
briefly
that
I
think
mr
crandall
has
a
bias
of
aesthetics.
He
has
held
this
position
for
the
last
four
years
as
we
as
an
industry
have
argued
to
get
to
this
point.
I
think
including
cement
fiber
panel
as
a
class.
One
material
is
incumbent
upon
this
body
and
the
city
council
to
adopt,
because
it's
not
a
question
of
aesthetics.
N
The
material
is
lovely.
If
used
correctly,
it's
up
to
the
design
professionals
and
the
planners
to
demand
that
no
material
should
be
used
monolithically
to
the
detriment
of
the
design.
I
use
cement
fiber
panel
in
very
creative
ways,
and
I
encourage
our
architects
to
do
so,
and
sometimes
that
involves
multiple
colors
on
the
same
plane
and
you
know
variation
in
the
projection
of
the
facade.
Sometimes
and
that's
you
know
appropriate
and
should
be
continued
to
be
encouraged,
and
it
should
not
be
a
detraction
of
the
material
itself,
which
is
extremely
flexible,
durable
and
cost
effective.
N
B
C
C
Okay,
well
at
this
point
it
looks
like
we
don't
have
any
any
more
speakers
for
public
hearing,
so
I
am
now
closing
the
public
hearing,
but
before
moving
further.
I
am
at
this
point
handing
off
the
chairing
of
this
meeting
to
vice
president
alyssa
olsen,
as
I
have
to
exit
the
meeting
before
six,
and
this
is
a
good
time
to
hand
it
off.
D
I
I
I
think
the
correct
term
is
ex
parte
with
miss
jackie
cherry
holmes
about
this
particular
item,
and
so
I
want
to
make
everyone
aware
of
it.
I
think
the
gist
of
the
conversation,
which
is
very
short,
is
what
you
just
heard
from
the
two
presenters,
but
I
am.
I
want
to
make
sure
that
you're
aware
that
that
conversation
took
place.
Thank
you.
D
H
Thank
you.
Well,
first,
I
found
the
testimony
from
the
public
hearing
to
be
persuasive,
but
so
I
think
if
someone
else
moved
to
move
fiber
cement
to
category
one
I'll,
probably
vote
for
it,
I'm
not
persuaded
enough
to
make
the
motion
on
my
own
though,
but
the
one
that
I
want
to
dig
into
more
is
about
the
wood
and
the
wood
composite,
because
that's
the
one,
the
one
where
we're
seeing
the
biggest
change
before
I
get
into
that.
H
H
H
So,
like
I
guess
like
do,
you
have
an
idea
of
what
proportion
of
buildings
in
minneapolis
now
are
wood,
as
opposed
to
wood
composite
like
if
I
mean,
if,
if
I
were,
to
propose
to
move
wood
to
class
two,
would
it
make
sense
to
move?
Would
composite
or
would
it
make
sense
to
leave,
would
composite
in
class?
Three
is
the
question
I'm
trying
to
work
out.
K
I
wouldn't
move
any
of
them.
I
mean
that
would
be
my
preference,
but
you
know-
and
I
guess
I
would
also
point
out-
that
there
isn't
a
significant
amount
of
bureaucratic
paperwork
necessary
to
request
alternative
compliance.
It's
the
same
standard,
siteman,
review
application
that
anyone
goes
through.
This
is
just
a
part
of
the
many
standards
that
site
plan
review
applies
to
any
project.
It
doesn't
require
special
applications
or
special
permission.
There's
no
variances,
it's
just
a
part
of
the
site
behind
review
approval.
K
More
onerous
necessarily,
and
were
there
to
be
a
project
that
you
know
wanted
to
exceed
those
standards
for
a
special
application.
Again,
I
think
that's
an
easy
case
to
make
in
certain
instances,
but
the
commission
would
then
have
the
ability
to
rely
on
staff's
expertise
on
their
own
expertise
if
they
have
an
architectural
background,
etc.
To
make
that
determination
through
the
site
plan,
review
application.
L
K
I
K
So
we,
you
know,
feel
better
generally
about
products
that
have
that
distinction
and
when
we
have
more
information
from
an
applicant
to
understand
the
installation
method
which,
as
the
speaker
from
james
harvey
pointed
out,
is
typically
the
problematic
implement.
With
regard
to
this
particular
material.
B
I
L
So
I
I
think
the
you
know,
I
think
wading
into
kind
of
what
materials
are
appropriate
on
buildings
is
a
highly
subjective
and
a
kind
of
a
slippery
slope
so,
and
I
think
in
most
instances,
as
stated
earlier,
the
defects
are
are
usually
in
the
installation
or
the
design
of
the
application,
the
material,
not
the
material
itself.
That's
been
my
experience
and
there
are
some
high
quality
fiber
cement
panels
and
products
that
I
would
put
up
against
concrete
precast
cast
stone
masonry
in
terms
of
performance
and
aesthetic.
L
So
I
think
it's
you
know
it's
something
that
we're
going
to
have
to
wrestle
with
coming
up
sooner
than
later,
and
it
really
is
this
body's
place
to
comment
on
its
application.
So
I'm
I'm
a
little
reticent
to
restrict
percentages
just
because
even
I
think,
as
steve
min
had
mentioned
here
too-
that
that
even
sometimes
a
monolithic
application
is
better
than
a
piecemeal
tchotchked
up
one
that
is
mandated
x
percentage.
So
but
those
things
come
before
this
body
and
we're
able
to
kind
of
weigh
in
and
talk
about
them.
L
L
H
Yes,
I
do
and
I'll
just
reiterate
that
I
would
be
willing
to
vote
in
favor
of
moving
fiber
cement
to
class.
One
of
commissioner
baxley
or
any
other
commissioner
feels
inclined
to
make
that
motion,
but
I'll
I'll
move
to
amend
a
movement
amendment
to
move
wood
and
wood
composite
lap,
siding
to
class
two.
D
H
You
know
some
good
16-story
buildings
that
were
made
of
wood.
I
mean
I,
I
think
it's
certainly
true,
that
you
won't
see
much
larger
buildings
than
that
very
often,
but
I
mean
that
that
would
make
the
amendment
kind
of
like,
because,
because
they're
not
doing
it
anyway
like
it
would
be
kind
of
inconsequential
to
just
leave
it
as
it
is-
and
you
know
like
I
mentioned
in
my
question
during
the
staff
report
like
this-
is
this
material
is,
is
being
moved
significantly
downward
from
the
status
quo.
H
B
I
I
D
E
F
H
D
D
L
B
C
H
D
F
Yes,
just
an
update
from
last
week's
biz
committee
meeting
on
the
appeal
related
to
the
mixed
use,
building
on
france
avenue.
That
appeal
was
denied
so
essentially
affirming
the
planning
commission's
decision
to
approve
that
project,
and
that
goes
to
the
full
city
council
this
friday,
and
that
is
all
I
have.
D
All
right,
seeing
none
with
that,
we
have
completed
all
the
items
on
our
agenda
for
this
meeting
without
objection.
I
will
declare
this
meeting
adjourned.
Our
next
planning
commission
meeting
will
be
monday
september,
9th
2021,
and
our
next
committee
of
the
whole
meeting
will
be
thursday
august
19
2021..
Thank
you.
Everybody.