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A
D
A
B
B
F
C
A
B
Passes
and
the
agenda
is
adopted
now
for
agenda
item
three
is
receiving
and
filing
a
presentation
from
representatives
of
the
city
of
duluth
and
the
city
of
duluth
is
a
city
of
the
first
class,
which
is
the
technical
term,
meaning
that
they
are
of
a
certain
size.
Three
other
cities,
besides
minneapolis
and
st
paul,
that
are
considered
cities
of
the
first
class,
are
duluth
rochester
and.
G
B
H
B
Well,
then,
just
for
a
brief
overview.
We
do
have
a
list
of
questions
that
we
sent
to
duluth
in
advance,
so
we
can
go
through
the
list
of
questions
and
some
overlap
and
the
conversation
will
kind
of
interrelate
with
one
another.
So
we
will
just
make
sure
that
we've
covered
everything
and
see
if
there's
anything
outstanding
by
the
time
we
wrap
up
our
discussion.
A
So
I
just
want
to
check
madam
chair.
If
mr
shukman
has
had
a
chance
to
join
us,
we've
let
in
a
few
more
calls,
and
so
it
may
be-
that
mr
shipman
is
now
with
us.
A
And
he
may
be,
he
may
be
muted
as
well.
In
order
to
unmute
yourself.
You'll
have
to
push
star
six,
and
then
your
microphone
will.
A
B
B
B
A
Well,
certainly,
I
I
mean
miss
helmer
is
here,
and
so
we
could
certainly
speak
with
her
and
I'll
try
to
reach
out
to
mr
shukman
and
see
if
I
can
reach
him
in
the
meantime.
A
I
actually
have
just
admitted
mr
shukman
to
the
meeting
so
I'll,
give
it
just
I'll
just
give
it
a
minute
and
to
make
sure
that
he
can
hear
us.
So,
mr
shukman,
if
you're
on
the
line,
if
you
can
just
let
us
know.
B
B
And
we
met
miss
helmer.
We
were
going
to
start
by
going
through
the
questions
that
we
sent
you
in
advance
and
when
we
wrap
up
this
discussion,
we'll
just
make
sure
that
we
hit
on
anything
because
I'm
sure
the
questions
will
kind
of
roll
into
one
another
as
we
go
along.
B
The
first
question
is
to
ask
you
to
briefly
describe
your
mayor
council
administrator
structure
and
how
you
would
rate
just
qualitatively
the
effectiveness
and
efficiency
of
your
structure,
including
the
best
biggest
attributes,
and
perhaps
the
biggest
drawbacks.
I
Sure,
thank
you.
I
will.
If
it's
okay,
I
will.
I
will
start
and
and
chelsea,
please
do
chime
in
here
the
mayor
in
the
city
of
dulutha
mayor.
It's
a
strong
mayor
system,
it
does
have
a
city
administrator
and
I
serve
in
that
role.
I
The
way
that
the
structure
is
set
up
in
the
way
we
functionally
operated
is
that,
with
the
exception
of
the
city
attorney
all
of
the
department
heads
report
to
me
directly
and
miss
helmer
is
one
of
those
department
heads
and
also
serves
as
our
city
clerk
and
the
city
attorney
reports
to
the
mayor
directly
and
also
then
has
a
direct
connection
and
role
with
the
city
council,
and
so
the
mayor
then
has
a
handful
of
office
staff
as
well.
I
That
report
to
her,
but
in
in
terms
of
reporting,
I
report
to
the
mayor
about
820
of
our
staff
report
to
me
and
then
the
remainder
report
to
the
mayor
or
to
the
city
attorney
and
the
administration
as
a
whole,
as
as
we
refer
to
it,
tends
to
generate
the
bulk
of
our
council
agenda
that
those
items
are
brought
to
the
council
for
for
approval
or
discussion.
I
H
Yeah,
chair
garcia
commissioners,
I
would
add
so,
as
you
are
probably
aware,
as
you're
gathering
information
as
part
of
this
work
group
and
that
strong
mayor
council
form
effectively
in
the
city
of
duluth,
the
council
has
the
legislative
and
budgetary
authority,
so
they
are
the
overall
policy
makers
oftentimes
and
then
they
do
determine
the
budget
for
the
city
of
duluth
and
then
the
administrative
branch
is
really
operates
as
an
executive
branch
similar
to
what
you
see
in
the
federal
government,
they
have
the
full
authority
to
enforce
then
those
laws
and
policies
and
to
execute
those
budgetary
decisions.
H
It
does
positive
attributes.
I
think
that
executive
authority
allows
the
city
to
respond
quickly
to
to
items
that
are
to
events
that
are
happening
in
the
community
and
but
at
the
same
time,
then
it
allows
the
council
to
focus
on
sometimes
some
of
the
the
larger
picture
of
co.
Of
course,
the
administration
does
make
all
of
the
budgetary
recommendations
to
the
council,
but
it
does
allow
the
council
to
have
some
decision-making
process
when
it
comes
to
overarching
taxation
policy
etc.
So
it
it
provides
some
flexibility,
flexibility
for.
H
B
H
B
B
The
second
question
is
about
how
the
city
actually
works
kind
of
in
real
life,
as
opposed
to
how
it's
designed
in
the
charter
and,
for
example,
how
are?
How
is
direction
given
by
the
mayor
by
the
council,
as
well
as
to
and
from
individual
council
members.
I
So
I
will,
I
will
start
chelsea,
that's
all
right
with
you.
Thank
you
for
the
question
yeah.
So
by
and
large,
the
way
that
it
works.
Is
that-
and
I
referenced
this
earlier
in
in
my
kind
of
opening
comments,
but
by
and
large
the
department,
heads
and
each
of
the
departments
reports
to
me
and
so
that
directions
comes
with
me.
Cert
comes
from
me.
I
I
I
I
don't
personally
think
there
are
conflicts
about
direction.
We
have
worked
very
hard
to
make
those
lines
of
communication
and
lines
of
the
chain
of
command
clear,
and
we
have
very
good
and
positive
relationships
with
counselors
as
we
work
that
through
and
and
if
and
when
there
is
a
bump
in
that
road.
It's
a
it's
a
usually
a
pretty
calm
and
simple
conversation
that
I
have
with
them,
or
that
a
department
head
has
with
them.
I
Personalities
certainly
do
play
a
role,
but
but
position
and
formal
process
tend
to
carry
the
day
and
and
I'll
hand
it
off
to
chelsea
here
for
any
comments.
H
Yeah,
I
would
the
only
thing
I
would
note
is
there
are
some
provisions
that
are
in
the
city
charter
that
actually
do
prohibit
the
counselors
from.
H
B
C
Thank
you.
This
is
a
question
probably
most
directed
to
noah.
I
know
peter
ginder,
so
it's
nice
to
virtually
see
you,
but
I'm
interested
in
in
the
comparison
of
how
the
city
works
with
regard
to
resident
or
citizen
complaints
in
minneapolis.
One
of
both
the
strengths
of
the
system
is
that
you
know
neighborhoods
and
people
who
live
in
the
city
feel
that
they
have
easy
access
to
government
by
calling
their
local
council
member.
C
That
also
is
one
of
the
probably
the
weaknesses
of
it
is
because
council
members
then
tend
to
some
might
say,
interfere
with
the
delivery
of
services,
whether
it's
public
works
or
the
police
department
or
whatever
I'm
calling
up
and
asking
for
specific
responses
in
their
ward.
I
Thank
you
peter
nice
to
see
you
I
apologize.
My
camera
is
not
working
this
evening
and
I'm
glad
that
the
city
of
minneapolis
was
able
to
continue
to
avail
itself
of
your
services
after
retirement
peter.
That's
that's
great
news
for
folks
who
I
don't
know
on
the
call,
and
I
know
a
number
of
the
people
on
the
call.
I
And
I
mentioned
that
in
part
because
to
your
point
peter,
I
personally
saw
a
big
shift
in
constituent
relations
and
how
complaints
were
handled
before
and
after
the
implementation
of
3-1-1
at
the
city
of
minneapolis
and
at
the
city
of
duluth.
We
do
not
have
a
3-1-1
system
and
that's
something
actually
that
chelsea
and
I
have
talked
about
and
chelsea's
and
her
staff
are
working
on
the
potential
implementation
of
that
as
it
stands
right
now.
I
The
city
of
duluth
has
four
district,
I'm
sorry,
four
at-large
counselors,
which
is
one
of
the
big
differences
between
minneapolis
and
duluth,
and
so
we
have
the
mo.
We
have
council
members
that
have
their,
they
obviously
have
their
own
email
address
and
then
there's
an
email
address
that
serves
as
a
distribution
list
to
all
of
the
city
council,
and
so
one
of
the
things
that
we
work
through
is
that
that
ends
up
being
the
main
one
of
the
main
focal
points
for
complaints.
I
So
very
frequently,
all
nine
counselors
see
all
the
complaints
and
so
we're
working
to
try
to
take
some
steps
out
of
that
process,
not
to
cut
out
counselors
but
to
get
resolution
of
those
complaints
more
directly
to
the
line
staff
that
can
address
them,
but
certainly
can
residents
and
visitors
do
reach
out
to
the
council.
I
They.
Those
complaints
then
tend
to
come
directly
to
either
me
or
to
the
department
head.
As
the
initial
kind
of
triage
of
those,
we
also
have
staff
in
my
office
in
the
mayor's
office,
who
answer
kind
of
a
general
city
phone
line
and
they
also
triage
complaints
directly
by
phone,
and
then
we
have
a
city
website
that
does
have
some
ability
to
take
complaints
via
form
submission,
and
so
you
know
it's
very
it's
fairly
ad
hoc
and
it
has.
It
has
pluses
and
minuses.
I
But
when
things
come
to
counselors,
we
work
very
hard
to
get
to
start
the
process
of
answering
those
questions
proactively,
and
you
know
certain
district,
the
district
councillors
that
represent
a
specific
geographic
area
of
the
city.
I
think
they
tend
to
get
more
direct
direct
complaints
that
then
they
turn
around
and
come
to
us
on.
I
But
what
we
end
up
having
right
now
is
a,
I
think,
a
fairly
inefficient
process
where
there's
a
lot
of
hands
that
touch
a
complaint
before
it
gets
to
the
staff
person
who
goes
out
in
the
field
and
fills
that
pothole,
for
example,
that
that
a
pothole
complaint
could
go
to
all
nine
counselors
and
then
from
multiple
counselors
and
or
the
mayor
to
me
to
the
department,
the
public
works
director
and
then
the
public
orchestra,
his
staff,
his
staff
feel
the
pothole.
Let
him
know
and
then
that
chain
repeats
itself
going
backwards.
I
H
H
I
think
it
allows
no
other
city
administrator
to
maybe
control
the
workflow
a
little
more
because
there
isn't,
I
think,
a
pressure
from
an
employee
perspective.
Well,
I
just
was
contacted
by
counselor
x,
and
so
I
need
to
set
aside
our
work
plan
here
to
get
to
this
right
away,
and
I
don't
know
that
that's
necessarily
the
case
in
minneapolis,
but
it
does
allow
kind
of
the
department,
heads
and
the
city
administrator
to
maybe
structure
a
work
plan
and
then
work
with
the
counselor
to
make
sure
that
the
constituents
issue
is
addressed.
B
Thank
you
we'll
move
on
to
chris
smith,
and
then
we
also
have
a
question
in
the
chat
that
I
will
read
when
we're
when
chris
is
wrapped
up.
D
D
I
So
the
mayor
is
full-time
and
works
out
of
her
office
in
city
hall.
The
council
is
part-time,
they
all
have
other
other
jobs,
but
or
do
other
things
and
they
by
and
large,
do
not
work
out
of
city
hall
other
than
during
in
normal
times
a
council
meeting
or
if
they're
meeting
with
staff
or
with
a
constituent
in
the
building
using
the
building
as
office
space.
But
by
and
large
you
know,
having
worked
in
minneapolis
for
all
those
years.
D
All
right
and
then
my
other
question
and
chelsea
kind
of
mentioned
it.
You
talked
about
there's
kind
of
a
prohibition
from
council
members
dealing
directly
with
city
employees,
and
actually
we
were
provided
that
charter
provision
in
one
of
the
memos
that
we
had,
and
I
was
just
kind
of
curious.
It
actually
says
in
the
in
the
charter
provision
that
it's
a
misdemeanor-
I
don't
know
if
that's
meant
to
be
criminal
or
not,
and
then
it
talks
about
a
counselor
being
removed,
and
I
guess
I'm
just
kind
of
curious.
D
I
I
will
I'll
just
say
very
briefly:
you
know
we
we,
we
do
not
run
into
problems
that
I
have
heard
with
counselors
giving
orders
to
staff
and
they
they
that
has
not
been
an
issue.
Chelsea
has
worked
for
the
city
longer
than
I
have,
and
so
I
will
hand
that
off
to
her
and-
and
she
may
know
more
about
a
history
of
that,
but
it
has
been
a
not
an
issue
during
my
time.
H
H
H
It
is
it's
just
a
reminder
for
counselors
to
work
with
the
city
administrator
and
then,
by
extension,
the
department
directors,
but
I
I
don't
recall
where
there
has
been
an
attempt
to
to
directly
enforce
that.
B
B
Next,
we
did
get
a
question
in
the
chat
from
andrea,
rubinstein
who's
a
commissioner
and
for
folks
who
have
joined
us
again.
I
invite
people
to
use
the
raise
hand.
Function.
B
Andrea's
question
is,
with
the
pro
from
a
policy
issue
perspective
rather
than
constituent
services,
with
the
prohibition
on
the
council
member
interference
with
or
direct
supervision
of
staff.
Is
there
ever
ever
an
issue
where
more
flexibility
would
be
desirable
or
necessary,
and
commissioner
rubenstein
feel
free
to
clarify
or
add
a
follow-up?
If
you
would.
I
Like
so
so,
I'm
I'm
happy
to
answer.
If
there
is
a
follow-up
or
any
additional
information,
I
we
in
my
experience.
We
have
not
needed
additional
flexibility
when,
from
a
policy
standpoint,
counselors
tend
to
start
either
with
me
or
with
the
city
attorney.
If,
if
not
with
me,
then
with
the
department
head
the
city
attorney's
office,
if
it
is
something
that
they
so,
I
think
one
of
the
dynamics.
That's
important
to
note
is
that
they
don't
the
counselors,
don't
have
to
work
with
the
administration
directly
on
a
policy
initiative.
I
They
certainly
can
bring
something
forward,
counselor
driven
they
would
work
with
either
colleagues
or
the
city
attorney
to
craft,
something
like
that,
but
by
and
large
that
those
things
tend
to
be
done
in
coordination
with
the
administration,
and
that
tends
to
then
start
with
either
me
or
the
department
head,
and
I
you
know
I
work
very
closely
with
the
department
heads.
We
tend
to
be
all
on
the
same
page
about
what
what's
happening
and
when.
H
No,
I
would
second
and
noah's
comments.
I
think
the
once
kind
of
that,
if,
if
the
counselor
is
choosing
to
work
with
the
administration
on
a
policy
initiative
effectively,
there's
still
room
for
that
counselor,
then
to
work
directly
with
to
get
feedback
input
work
with
a
department
head
about.
What
is
that
going
to
look
like
in
practicality?
How
are
we
going
to
implement
it?
As
mentioned?
You
know
the
counselors.
Don't
need
to
do
that,
but
you
know
in
the
interest
of
effective
government.
H
That's
generally
the
vast
majority
of
the
time
they
will,
and
so
employees
still
have
the
ability
to
work
with
a
counselor
in
that
way.
It's
just
that
provision,
in
my
mind,
is
just
more
of
of
keeping
that
line
of
where
the
executive
authority
rests,
versus
the
policy
making
and
budgetary
authority.
G
Thank
you.
I
asked
that
question
because
the
charter
language
looked
so
inflexible
that
it
worried
me,
but
you've
answered
it.
So
thank
you
for
that.
B
The
next
question-
and
perhaps
this
is
a
bit
redundant
from
the
conversation
we
just
had,
but
it's
about
the
separation
of
the
executive
and
legislative,
and
if
that
separation
and
the
importance
of
that
separation
and
defining
the
roles
of
mayor
and
council
and
the
administrative
staff,
do
you
have
any
response
to
that.
I
I
you
know,
I
think
I
think
it
does
promote
accountability.
I
certainly
as
I
as
I've
said
I
report
directly
to
the
mayor,
as
does
our
city
attorney
and
some
of
her
staff
and
then
our
department
heads
report
directly
to
me.
We
do
you
know
just
like
minneapolis.
Does
we
do
performance
reviews?
I
meet
every
other
week,
typically
with
department
heads
to
just
make
sure
that
we're
all
on
the
same
page,
we
meet
as
a
leadership
team
right
now
during
the
pandemic.
We
we
meet
weekly.
I
But
in
terms
of
accountability
to
the
council
and
to
the
mayor,
I
find
that
to
be
pretty
clear
and
pretty
easy
to
work
with,
and
I
have
not
had
any
confusion
about
accountability
and
authority
and
who,
who
I
report
to
and
reports
to
me
and
what
my
role
is,
and
a
lot
of
that
is
things
that
we
have
worked
together
to
make
sure
that
is
clear
to
staff
and
to
each
other.
But
it
certainly.
B
Okay,
thank
you.
Greg
abbott
has
a
question.
J
Yeah,
I
I'm
kind
of
curious.
In
terms
of
you
know,
one
of
the
things
that's
gotten
kicked
around
here
is
is
what
exactly
is
legislative
and
what
exactly
exactly
is
executive?
And
I
don't
know
like,
for
you
know
the
example
that
that's
been
kicked
around
here
is:
is
zoning
and
land
use,
and
you
know
which
in
my
mind,
is
clearly
policy
making
legislative
right?
J
This
the
you
know,
and
I
think
the
question
in
in
the
duluth
system,
I
presume
the
the
city
council
still
votes
on
like
variances
and
zoning
changes
and
whatnot,
but
I
guess
the
larger
question
is
is
have
you
guys
ever
had
any
friction
or
have
have
there
been
any
discussions
or
disputes
about
what
goes
in
the
legislative
hopper
and
what
goes
in
the
executive
hopper
and
how
does
that
work
in
practice?.
I
Thank
you
for
the
question
I
so
much
like.
Minneapolis
duluth
has
a
planning
commission,
as
well
as
planning
and
zoning
staff
that
do
the
preliminary
work.
There
are
certainly
items
whether
it's
a
variance
or
an
appeal
that
come
through
the
council,
and
so
some
items
are
administratively
handled,
because
that's
what
the
way
that
the
ordinance
is
written
or
the
structure
is
set
up
and
some
things
come
through
by,
for
the
same
reason,
come
through
the
council.
I
I
there
are
certain
in
order.
I
believe
it's
an
ordinance
and
chelsea
will
be
able
to
more
definitively
answer
this,
but
there
are
items
in
ordinance
that
require
specific
things
to
come
to
the
council,
whether
it's
a
specific
dollar
amount
for
expenditure.
I
believe
that
is
the
biggest
one
or
certain
or
ordinance
changes
certain
resolutions
that
do
need
to
come
through,
and
so
I
don't.
I
don't
personally
find
there
to
be
a
lot
of
confusion.
I
I
have
not
seen
an
instance
where
we
have
handled
something
administratively
that
then
the
council
has
found
has
said
you
know
we
wish
that
would
come
through.
We
tend
to
err
on
the
side
of
sending
things
through
the
council
when
in
doubt,
and
frankly,
there's
just
not
that
much
aside
from
day-to-day
operations.
It
doesn't
come
through
the
council
in
some
form
and
so
I'll
hand
it
off
to
chelsea
to
add
to
or
clarify
anything
that
I
missed.
H
Yeah
I
I
would,
I
would
say
that
a
lot
of
that
detail-
and
I
think
probably
areas
where
there
may
be-
does
need
to
be
some
clarity
ends
up
being
dealt
with
through
the
through
the
city
code.
So
a
lot
of
times
that
will,
I
think,
refine,
maybe
what
we
consider
executive
versus
legislative
and,
of
course,
all
of
all
of
that
you
know
everything
that
that
is
adopted
or
codified
in
the
code
comes
to
comes
to
council.
So
a
lot
of
times
it
will
originate
from
administration.
H
So
we're
specifically
what
came
to
mind
we're
talking
planning
and
zoning
is,
I
believe
it
was
in
2010.
H
The
city
undertook
a
process
to
adopt
a
new
zoning
code,
the
unified
development
chapter,
and
so
that
was
you
know.
A
consultant
city
worked
with
the
consultant.
That
was
all
done
at
the
administrative
level,
but
then
that
unified
development
chapter
was
then
brought
forward
to
the
council
for
them
to
adopt
effectively
as
as
law.
So
there's
that
balance
there
of
oftentimes
administration
will
have
to
kind
of
go
into
that
detail
work.
B
Thank
you
very
much.
I
have
a
little
bit
of
a
follow-up
question
on
kind
of
that
in
our
conversation
so
far,
and
for
those
who
are
not
who
don't
have
the
the
camera
necessarily
there's
been
questions
in
the
chat
to
clarify
the
composition,
the
mayor
is
full-time
and
the
council
is
part-time.
B
There
are
not
nine
council
members,
five
elected
at
a
district-wide
level
and
four
at
large,
so
my
question
is:
do
you
think
that
this
operation
would
run
differently
if
the
council
was
full-time?
Do
you
think
that
being
a
part-time
council
kind
of
doesn't
provide
enough
enough
time
for
them
to
be
involved.
B
And
they
kind
of
have
these
potentially
conflicting.
I
I
think
they
tend
to
feel
that
they
have
plenty
of
work
to
do
in
their
role
and
probably
not
enough
time
to
do
it,
and
I
think,
on
some
level
many
many
of
the
people
on
this
call
can
identify
with
that
in
their
own
work.
But
you
know
I
find
I
have
found
again
in
having
come
from
minneapolis
that
the
system
does
work
much
very
cleanly.
People
do
tend
to
know
their
roles
and
they
they
interact
with
the
administration
in
the
amount
that
they
feel
comfortable
or
necessary.
I
If
some
counselors
don't
ask
questions
at
all,
some
questions,
counselors
ask
a
lot
of
questions
both
offline
and
then
in
meetings,
and-
and
so
it
is
really
a
it's
really-
a
kind
of
choosing
an
adventure
for
those
elected
officials
in
terms
of
how
they
want
to
handle
it,
and
I
would
say
on
the
administration's
behalf
that
we
are
here
to
to
make
sure
that
they
have
what
they
need
to
be
successful
in
their
role
in.
I
However,
they
choose
to
play
that
play
that
and-
and
I
guess
again
chelsea
if
you'd
like
to
chime
in
please
do.
H
Yeah,
I
agree
it's
definitely
historically,
we've
had
counselors
that
I
think
probably
would
have
liked
to
have
been
potentially
full-time,
or
at
least
to
have
maybe
some
additional
staff
support
or
additional
connection
at
the
city,
but
many
counselors,
many
other
counselors
choose
not
to
have
that
level
of
engagement
it.
H
I
do
think
council
all
of
the
counselors
that
I've
had
the
opportunity
to
work
with
are
are
fantastic
about
really
working
with
their
constituent
base
and
understanding
kind
of
the
that
role
with
administration
and
the
council.
But
I
I
agree
with
noah
that
it
is,
is
certainly
different.
Counselors
have
approached
it
different
ways.
B
Okay,
thank
you
interesting.
The
next
question
is
really
again.
This
may
overlap
with
previous
discussion,
but
it's
about
promoting
accountability
for
the
administrative
staff
and
to
the
extent
that
your
structure
may
do
that
or
would
are
there
elements
perhaps
in
a
different
structure
that
would
improve
accountability
on
behalf
of
the
city.
I
I
would
say
I
think
it
it
works
very
cl
very
well
as
it's
set
up.
I
think,
as
I
maybe
said
this
earlier,
but
you
know
I
I
report
directly
to
the
mayor.
The
city
attorney
reports
directly,
the
mayor,
the
vast
majority,
the
remainder
of
the
city
staff
report
directly
to
me
and
department
heads.
I
Do
the
of
the
nine
department
heads
eight
of
them
report
directly
to
me,
and
so
we
have.
I
don't
think
that
there's
a
lot
of
concern
about
accountability,
it's
something
that
the
leadership
team
as
a
whole
takes
seriously
and
our
collective
bargaining
agreements
like
minneapolis,
largely
spell
out
how
accountability
is
handled
for
line
staff
in
terms
of
their
day-to-day
work
and
then
with
department
heads.
You
know
we
do
performance
reviews
and
we
we
talk
regularly
to
set
those
expectations.
B
Great,
thank
you.
The
last
question
is,
as
you've
looked
at
other
cities.
Oh
there's
a
quick
question
from
here,
perhaps
not
quit,
but
I
just
greg
just
put
his
hand
up.
J
Yeah
sorry,
my
reputation
precedes
me.
I'm
quick
on
non-quick
questions.
The
question
I
have
is
is
how
much
staffing
does
the
city
council
have
versus
the
mayor?
I
know
you've
talked
about
how
the
city
attorney
reports
both
to
the
mayor
and
to
the
council,
but
does
the
does
the
council
have
like
its
own
budget
staff
or
or
does
it
have
some
sort
of
independent
ability
to
like
draft
its
own
ordinances,
or
does
that
go
through
the
city
attorney's
office?
I
So
I
the
council
itself,
individual
counselors,
do
not
have
staff
they
as
I
as
you
you
referenced,
commissioner.
They
they
are.
They
do
work
with
the
city
attorney's
office
to
draft
ordinances.
We
certainly
are
available
and
willing
and
frankly
hopeful
that
they
will
work
with
line
staff
to
to
to
put
staff
perspective
into
any
policy
or
ordinance
change
that's
coming
through,
but
they
do
not
have
a
specific
staff.
You
know,
as
I
I
referenced.
I
I
started
my
career
with
the
city
of
minneapolis
as
one
of
the
policy
aids
for
one
of
the
minneapolis
council
members,
and
that
is
just
a
different
system
than
duluth
has
and
so
that
those
staff
do
not
have
or
the
council
does
not
have.
Direct
staff
director
homer
can
talk
through
how
the
clerk's
off
the
city
clerk's
office,
interfaces
with
the
council
and
works
with
them
more
closely
than
most
other
board
groups.
H
Yeah
so,
as
noah
mentioned
that
the
council
does
not
have
dedicated
staff,
the
city
clerk's
office
will
take
on
the
majority
of
the
administrative
needs
that
counselors
may
have.
So
you
know
travel
training
and
then,
of
course,
setting
working
with
the
council
of
the
administration
to
do
the
general
record-keeping
of
the
city
so
setting
the
council
agendas
managing
board
and
commission
appointments
that
type
of
thing.
H
B
B
And
just
wanted
to
reiterate:
we
have
a
commissioner
who
is
in
transit
and
in
the
parking
lot
literally,
so
I
wanted
to
read
her
question
from
the
chat
regarding
again,
it
kind
of
works
off
of
commissioner
abbott's
question
about
how
many
staff
each
council
member
has
and
if
they're,
full
or
part-time,
just
in
general,
what
staff
support
is
and
is,
staff
does
staff
report
to
each
city,
council,
member
or
to
the
clerk?
Are
they
part
of
the
clerk's
office.
I
Thank
you
for
the
question
and
actually,
ironically,
I
know,
commissioner
mckee
from
my
time
as
a
policy
aide
and
council
member
shifts
office.
There
are
no
staff
for
individual
city
councillors
in
in
duluth.
I
I
So
that
is
a
big
difference
from
minneapolis
in
terms
of
the
staff
support
of
staff
support
directly
available
to
counselors,
but
certainly
I
just
to
be
really
clear
about
it.
I
we
work
very
hard
myself
and
the
department
heads
to
make
sure
that
counselors
have
staff
support
for
conversations
they
need
to
have
about
whether
it's
about
a
a
zoning
appeal
or
a
police
issue,
or
you
know
a
road
repaving.
F
Yeah
hi
noah
nice
to
see
you
again,
I'm
wondering
since
you're
on
the
line
from
your
experience
in
minneapolis.
I
go
back
far
enough
where
the
front
death
staff
person
in
minneapolis
used
to
be
under
the
city
clerk
and
then
that
changed
and
I
I
wondered
if
you
had
any
thoughts
on
pros
and
cons
of
city
staff
that
are
are
managed
by
the
city
clerk's
office.
Maybe
chelsea
could
answer
that
too.
I
Commissioner,
mickey,
if
you
don't
mind,
I'm
a
little
confused
on
your
question
staff
reporting
to
the
clerk's
office.
Are
you
talking
about
the
front
desk
at
the
council
offices.
F
Yeah
so
when
I
first
started
working
with
the
working
with
the
city
and
neighborhoods,
the
front
desk
person
was
always
hired
by
the
city
clerk
and
accountable
to
the
city
clerk
and
then
that
changed
so
that
the
council
members
now
hire
and
monitor
both
of
their
council
staff
support.
I'm
just
wondering
if
you
have
any
thoughts
on
pros
and
cons
of
that
change,
if
or
if
you
were
even
there
at
the
time.
I
can't
remember
how
far
back
that
change
happened.
Actually
I.
I
B
Okay,
thank
you.
Did
you
have
anything
to
add,
miss
himmler.
H
I
do
not,
I
do
not
have
anything
to
add.
I,
the
city
clerk's
office
currently
in
duluth,
does
report
directly
to
the
city
city
clerk,
so
we
don't
have
a
similar
situation
where
they
would
report
report
to
individual
counselors.
G
B
Thank
you.
The
last
question
is
about
how
the
loose
government
structure
compares
to
other
cities
that
you're
familiar
with,
and
if
there's
anything
else
about
comparing
duluth
to
minneapolis
that
you
haven't
mentioned.
I
Thank
you,
commissioner.
I,
I
think
we've
largely
covered
the
structure.
You
know
I
having
worked
in
minneapolis
for
for
for
15
years
it.
I
can
certainly
see
the
differences.
I
think
we've
we've
very
thoroughly
kind
of
covered
them.
I
I
do
think
that
there
is
a
big
difference,
and
commissioner
abbott,
I
think,
had
mentioned
this
between
having
all
all
ward
counselors
that
represent
specific
geographic
areas
and
having
four
at-large
counselors,
and
that
does
there's
an
interesting,
dynamic
change
there
and
in
part
you
know,
I
think
it's
it's
important
that
that
that
has
changed.
I
That
changes
the
dynamic
in
terms
of
how
council,
members
and
counselors
look
out
for
their
specific
district
reward,
and
then
the
at-large
counselor
you
know
for
us
means
that
having
at
large
counselors
means
it
could
be
that
I
will
hear
from
a
district
counselor
on
an
issue
and
all
four
at
large
counselors,
because
they
all
represent
the
same
constituency.
I
H
So
I
am
ashamed
to
admit
that
I
do
not
know
as
much
about
the
city
of
minneapolis
as
I
I
wish
I
did.
For
the
purposes
of
this
conversation,
I
did
have
the
opportunity
to
work
with
the
league
of
minnesota
cities.
H
I
know,
commissioner
smith
and
was
in
private
legal
practice,
where
we
were
the
city
attorney
for
several
local
citizens,
so
I'm
very
familiar
with
the
statutory
form
of
cities
and
cities
where
the
it's
a
strong
council
and
then
a
city
manager
for
matt
kind
of
my
perspective
on
those
those
two
is.
H
I
do
think
that
the
cities,
the
city
of
duluth,
strong,
executive,
administrative,
does
allow
the
city
to
be
flexible
and
sometimes,
I
think,
provide
it
is
easier,
sometimes
to
manage
certain
issues,
because
it
is
able
to
be
kept
at
that
administrative
level.
That
being
said,
I
think
a
lot.
Every
city
is
definitely
unique
and
a
lot
depends
on
the
size
of
the
city
in
question.
H
I
think
the
statutory
model
works
very
well
for
a
lot
of
smaller
cities
in
minnesota,
and
duluth's
model
tends
to
work
very
well
for
the
for
this,
the
size
of
the
city
that
it
is.
B
Do
we
have
any
any
that
kind
of
does
it
for
our
list
of
questions?
Do
any
other
commissioners
have
any
questions
or
anything
to
add.
F
Thanks,
I
don't
have
any
questions
I
just
wanted
to
thank
the
duluth
people.
This
is
very
interesting
and
very
helpful.
It's
it's
good
to
hear
from
other
other
cities
how
things
work.
So
I
really
appreciate
their
time.
J
Yeah
you
know,
commissioner
abbott
here.
I
would
also
really
like
to
extend
my
thanks
for
the
time
they've
taken
to
answer
our
questions.
However,
trivial
and
strange
they
may
seem
to
our
neighbors
up
north,
but
you
know
as
we're
going
through
this
process.
We
do
all
the
help
we
can
get
and
we
really
appreciate
your
time
and
your
expertise.
Thank
you
very
much.
I
B
J
J
No,
I
I
you
just
were
yes,
I
was
go
ahead
jill.
I
was
you
and
I
were
gonna
say
this
exact
same
thing.
So
go
ahead.
B
J
I
just
wanted
to
add
that
this
was
really
a
unique
opportunity
to
talk
to
a
bunch
of
individuals
in
the
in
the
same
zoom
call,
and
it
was
I
I
described
it
to
them
at
the
time,
and
I
think
it's
very
true.
In
some
ways
it
was
like
the
best
episode
of
almanac.
J
Ever
in
terms
of
you
know,
we
did
have
some
some
times
where
they
were
kind
of
descending
into
swapping
war
stories
and
whatnot,
but
the
the
level
of
insight
into
how
the
the
city
operates
frequently
from
both
sides
of
a
political
divide
was
was
very
useful
and
I
thought
the
the
the
notes
we've
put
together
really
reflect
the
conversation
very
well
and
for
for
any
of
and
again
I
would
like
to
you
know
the
number
of
people
that
have
been
helpful
to
us
in
this
endeavor
in
terms
of
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
structure
a
possible
amendment
or
proposal
for
an
amendment.
J
You
know
it
has
been
remarkable
and
and
the
willingness
of
a
lot
of
these
former
elected
officials
to
take
time
out
of
their
day
and
and
work
through.
Some
of
these
issues
was
was
remarkable
and
very
much
appreciated
and
I'd
like
to
make
sure
that
we
extend
our
thanks
to
them
for
doing
that,
and
I
was
I
was.
I
think
I
was
privileged
actually
to
be
on
that
conversation.
It
was
really
really
remarkable
so
and
that's
all
I
wanted
to
say
about
it
other
than
I
think.
D
J
Notes
that
we've
put
together,
I
think,
really
very
accurately
reflect
the
conversations
we
had.
B
Thank
you,
jericho.
F
Hi,
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
thought
the
report
was
very
well
done
and
very
insightful
and
I
think
it
was
a
really
really
good
on
the
part
of
our
commission
to
reach
out
and
talk
to
people,
because
there
are
so
many
different
experiences
and
so
much
leadership
and
assets
out
in
the
community.
So
it
was
a
was.
It
was
a
good
process
to
read
about
and
to
follow.
I'm
wondering
chair
garcia.
If
you
want
a
motion
to
like
accept
and
receive,
or
if
you're
asking
for
any
action
on
this.
B
A
If
you
wish
to
take
a
motion
to
receive
it,
you
can
that's
fine,
we
can
do
the
roll
call
you
don't
have
to.
You
can
just
direct
it
to
be
received
and
filed.
That's
at
your
discretion.
B
Okay,
thank
you.
Let's
hear
from
chair
clay.
E
B
Report
now,
if
there's
not
any
discussion
or
questions,
I
would
like
to
move
on
to
agenda
item
five
on
the
which
is
receiving
and
filing
a
memo
on
the
status
and
update
of
our
information
gathering
work
so
far,
including
options
for
potential
consideration
related
to
the
city's
governance
structure.
B
I
won't
read
the
memo.
Everybody
received
notification
of
it,
but
in
a
nutshell,
I
just
wanted
to
add
that
we
have
spent
time
as
a
working
group
looking
at
some
of
the
history
of
the
minneapolis
charter.
Reviewing
comparative
reports
and
articles
about
other
municipal
forms
of
government
compared
to
minneapolis
and
interviewed
leaders
of
the
city's
departments
and
other
former
electeds
and
today
and
at
our
next
meeting
on
the
19th
well
have
been
devoted
to
talking
to
other
minnesota
cities
of
the
first
class.
B
So
next
week,
it'll
be
rochester
and
saint
cloud
based
on
the
work
that
we've
done,
we
are
considering
moving
forward
with
a
more
intentional
look
at
a
clarified
structure
where
the
city
council
is
the
legislative
policy-making
body
and
the
mayor
serves
as
the
chief
executive.
B
So
I
would
like
to
pause
here
for
a
moment
and
discuss
with
work
group
members
as
well
as
other
charter
commissioners
joining
joining
us
to
ask
the
question
that
about
if
there's
agreement
on
this
course
of
action
is
there
consensus
that
the
charter
could
benefit
from
this
level
of
clarity
or
perhaps
modernization
chair
clegg.
B
E
You
I
certainly
agree
that
we
should
proceed
down
this
road,
as
I
mentioned
to
you
before
the
meeting.
I
also
think
we
should
find
a
time
when
we
can
discuss
in
detail
the
summary
of
initial
proposals
that
set
forth
in
the
memo,
because
I'm
sure
many
of
us
will
say
well.
E
C
My
question
is
kind
of
along
those
lines
and
just
to
comment
on
on
the
draft
report.
You
have
right
now,
which
has
the
mayor's
line
item
veto
under
the
executive
mayor
down
a
couple
of
times,
which
I'm
not
I'm
assuming
that's
an
oversight,
but
that,
for
example,
is
something
that's
not
necessarily
uniform
amongst
those
cities
with
strong
mayor
systems.
C
So
that's
something
that's
a
little
bit
of
an
outlier
and
based
on
what
I
read
a
summary
of
the
past
minneapolis
city
officials
is
probably
not
something
that
they
were
as
much
in
favor
and
or
in
favor
of
a
related
question
to
what
the
path
is
that
we're
looking
at
is.
What
is
the
time
frame
that
we're
looking
at?
Is
this
something
that
we
would
anticipate
putting
on
the
ballot
this
year?
C
Or
is
it
something
that's
going
to
take
a
longer
amount
of
time
to
really
go
through,
because
I
suspect,
once
we
start
getting
into
it,
that
we
will
find
it's
probably
a
little
more
complicated
or
some
of
the
ramifications
might
be
take
some
time
to
figure
out
where
we're
going.
C
Just,
for
example,
talk
about
the
city
coordinator,
the
city
coordinator,
really,
except
for
showing
up
in
the
section
about
appointment,
the
duties
aren't
discussed
at
all
in
the
city
charter
for
the
city
coordinator,
it's
they're
discussed
heavily
in
special
law
and
that's
incorporated
into
ordinance.
So
you
know
how
we
want
to.
You
know,
look
at
that.
You
know
how
is
the
city
coordinator
like
a
city
manager
or
whichever
way
we
want
to
go
some
of
those
are
going
to
be
kind
of
complex
questions.
C
If
you
go
down
that
route,
others
might
be
somewhat
more
simple,
but
I
think
you
know,
depending
on
the
time
frame,
also
kind
of
tells
us
what
we're
looking
at.
B
I
think
for
right
now,
that's
a
very
good
question.
We
have
looked
at
the
timeline.
I
believe
it
was
in
the
november
5th
meeting
a
timeline.
B
Perhaps
october
20th
meeting
yes,
the
october
20th
meeting,
there's
a
draft,
a
timeline
presented
for
potential
ballot,
questions
which
indicates
that
we
should
have
a
to
make
to
make
a
formal
amendment
in
time
for
the
2021
election
we
would
have
to
have
something:
a
draft
amendment
finalized
and
ready
for
formal
action
at
the
beginning
of
february.
B
B
There
hasn't
been
a
lot
of
discussion
around
any
other
structural
options
beyond
that,
as
you
mentioned,
you
we're
talking
about
city
coordinator,
so
perhaps
that's
something
that
we
should
discuss
further
and
agree
upon
or
define
or
see.
If
that
should
be
in
our
scope
to
proceed,
does
that
make
sense.
C
It
does
and
I'm
aware
of
what
we
had
originally
set
out
as
the
timeline
is
at
some
point.
The
timeline
may
or
may
not
be
realistic,
depending
on
the
nature
of
the
changes
that
we're
talking
about
both
thinking
them
through
and
then
having
that
explored
with
them
outside
agencies
or
getting
other
input.
Besides
our
own
input
on
the
actual
changes,
and
that
will
often
vary
we'll
have
to
wait
until
what
the
exact
language
is.
B
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Abbott.
J
Yeah
on
the
on
the
time
frame
question
you
know
we,
you
know,
we
are
obviously
just
a
work
group,
essentially
a
subcommittee
of
the
charter
commission
as
a
whole
and
whatever
work
product
we
present
to
the
charter
commission.
We
have
to
get
to
them
in
time
for
them
to
go
through
their
process
and
if
the
commission
as
a
whole
wants
to
proceed,
we're
going
to
have
to
have
public
hearings
and
there's
going
to
there's
gonna,
be
some
lead
time
there.
So
our
our
our
goal
has
been
to
get.
J
If
we
are
gonna
produce
a
proposed
amendment
to
do
a
report
and
a
proposed
amendment
in
february,
which
should
give
the
the
commission
as
a
whole
a
good
two
or
three
months
to
to
do
whole
public
hearings
and
kick
around
potentially
it's
its
own
amendments.
To
what's
going
on.
In
terms
of
the
you
know,
I
mean
the
kind
of
the
larger
question
of
of
what's
included
and
and
in
a
lot
of
the
details
I
mean
you
know
the
problem.
J
Of
course,
when
you
do
a
charter
amendment
is
that
it
becomes
kind
of
this
catch-all
for
everybody's
suggestion
for
how
to
improve
city
government,
and
you
could
spend
a
lot
of
time,
I
think,
chasing
down
various
specific
proposals
of
what's
going
on.
I
would
like
to
come
forward
on
the
19th
in
two
weeks
and
I
think
we'll
have
a
draft
proposal
to
look
at
and
my
goal
is
essentially
to
I
wouldn't
describe
it
as
minimalist
per
se,
but
I
want
to
kind
of
narrow
it
down
to
what
I
think
are
the
essential
problems.
J
You
know
with
with
some
of
the
things
that
we've
heard
from
city
staff,
some
of
the
things
we've
heard
from
the
former
former
elected.
Of
course,
we
also
have
to
hear
from
the
current
elected
officials
as
well.
That's
that's
still
on
the
on
our
to-do
list
in
order
to
get
their
input
first,
but
I
would
like
to
I'd
like
to
get
that
down
and
I
certainly
don't
want
to.
J
I
mean
I've
gotten
contacted
by
a
couple
of
you
know:
private
citizens
and
some
other
people,
and-
and
so
there's
been
some
email
chatter
about
what
about
this,
and
what
about
that?
The
other
thing
I
mean,
I
think
you
know,
there's
an
infinite
regress
problem
here.
You
know
I
don't
wanna,
I
don't
wanna
prevent
us
from
actually
producing
a
proposal
for
the
commission
as
a
whole
to
consider
we
could.
I
don't.
J
I
want
to
avoid
paralysis
by
analysis
here
and,
and
hopefully
the
commission
as
a
whole
will
will
agree
with
that,
but
at
any
rate
yeah.
I
I
think
we're
going
to
have
some
specific
texts
to
look
at
in
a
couple
of
weeks,
and
I
think
the
goal
of
putting
this
on
the
agenda
today
is
to
get
you
guys
and
the
rest
of
the
work
group
and
perhaps
some
other
other
commissioners
to
start
thinking
about
specific
language
about
how
to
implement
some
of
these
initial
proposals.
J
B
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Abbott
chair
clay.
E
E
B
Thank
you,
chair
clegg,
any
reactions
to
having
a
specific
work
group,
a
specific
meeting
for
the
work
group
next
week
to
discuss
this
commissioner
abbott.
D
I
just
had
a
question.
I
guess
I
don't
disagree
with
the
memo,
it's
kind
of
geared
towards
what
I
would
call
strong,
may
or
form
of
government,
which
I
think
may
make
the
most
sense.
I
guess
I
was
just
wondering
how
much
you
might
have
considered
other
forms
in
particular
kind
of
a
city
manager,
form
of
government.
B
Thank
you,
commissioner
smith.
What
I
can
speak
to
is
the
charge
that
the
charter
commission
gave
us,
which
is
to
look
at
our
current
charter
and
within
that
the
purview
of
the
mayor
and
city
council,
since
we
don't
have
a
city
manager
position
and
again
really
looking
at
what
of
the
current
charter.
B
But
given
where
we
are
now
given
again
the
fact
that
the
minneapolis
charter
has
been
kind
of
less
than
perfect
since
it's
been
cobbled
together
by
ordinance
and
such
to
come
into
even
to
come
into
being
that
if
we
were
gonna
kind
of
approach,
the
the
simplistic
road
and
just
address
what
is
with
the
within
the
charter
itself.
B
That's
that's
really
what
we
were.
We
were
looking
at,
commissioner
abbott.
J
Yeah
I
just
want
to
second
the
I'm
not
sure
that
a
city
manager
proposal
is
within
the
the
grant
of
power
that
we
got
from
the
charter
commission
as
a
whole.
I
mean,
I
think,
the
the
the
specific
resolution
authorizing
this
work
group
was
evaluate
the
balance
of
power
between
the
council
and
the
mayor.
You
know,
maybe
the
commission
is
all
if
somebody
wants
to
raise
this
at
our
general
meeting
tomorrow.
Perhaps
you
want
to,
I
mean
I'm
not
advocating
that
we
expand
that.
J
But
if
that's,
if
that's
an
important
thing,
I
can
tell
you
from
my
my
personal
standpoint.
I
think
I
don't
think
a
city
manager
system
works
for
larger
cities.
You
know
it
seems
to
be
for
smaller
or
medium-sized
cities.
It
seems
to
work
pretty
well,
but
particularly
in
a
situation
like
minneapolis,
where
we
seem
to
value
transparency
and
kind
of
democratic
accountability.
I
think
you're
going
to
get
a
different
kind
of
conversation,
you're
going
to
get
a
different
level
of
objection
to
a
charter
change.
J
If,
if
it's
the
city
manager
system,
you
know
a
former
council
member
and
council
president
paul
astro
and
some
other
folks
about
10
years
ago,
you
know
ran
the
city
manager
proposal
up
the
flagpole
and
it
didn't
seem
to
really
get
much
much
traction.
So
I
think
in
lieu
of
fighting
that
fight
over
again,
I
think
I
I
mean
you
know
my
concept
is
we
have
we
have
a
city
that
has
administrative
problems?
J
We
we
really
do
have
a
14
boss
problem
and
I
think
the
I
you
know
my
my
perspective
is
that
we
should
kind
of
address
as
minimally
as
you
know,
as
narrowly
tailored
as
possible
to
fix
that
problem
is
what
my
proposal
is
kind
of
aimed
at
and
or
my
concept
of
a
proposal
is
kind
of
aimed
at
and,
and
I
think,
the
more
we
broaden
the
scope,
the
more
we
kind
of
throw
stuff
in
there.
J
J
J
You
know
the
council
certainly
has
the
ability
to
pass
an
ordinance
governing
how
the
city
departments
are
organized,
even
in
a
even
in
a
system,
an
executive
mayor,
legislative
council
system-
and
I
don't
wanna
like
I
say
I
don't
wanna,
I
don't
wanna
kind
of
you
know,
create
this
giant
gumball
of
ideas
and
then
and
have
it
be
too
unwieldy.
I
think
we
need
to
present
something
if
we
do
present
something
to
the
voters.
J
I
think
it
needs
to
be
trim,
narrowly
tailored
and
and
solves
the
problem
that
we're
that
we
we've
been
developing
evidence.
For
so
I
mean
I,
I
think
the
the
report
of
the
department
heads,
I
think
was
a
was
a
clear
sign
that
we
needed
to
have
like
one
administrative
head
to
whom
city
employees
can
report
and
the
the
bigger
the
the
more
we
get
away
from
that
focus.
J
I
think
the
the
I
think
the
debate
shifts
and
I
think
I
think
we're
gonna
get
we'd
get
ahead
of
ourselves.
If
we
did
that.
So
that's
kind
of
my
reaction.
J
Well,
you
know
I
mean
I
I
mean
I
can
only
speak
for
myself
and
perhaps
you
know
jill,
and
I
have
had
some
conversations
I
mean
if
there
is
you
know
I
mean
certainly
the
I
mean
this.
The
charter
commission
as
a
whole
is
going
to
get
to
vote
on
this
right,
so
it's
like
and,
as
a
matter
of
fact,
the
work
group,
all
six.
All
six
of
us
are
gonna,
get
to
vote
on
this
right.
J
So
if,
if
somehow
I've
missed
this
groundswell
for
a
city
manager
system,
we
can
certainly
fix
it
at
this
point
in
the
process,
but
but
I
I'm
I'm
not
thrilled
by
the
concept
so.
B
And
before
going
on
to
commissioner
metschke,
I
would
say
thank
you,
commissioner
smith,
if
what,
as
we
have
this
conversation,
if
there
are
things
that
are
kind
of
outside
of
this
scope
that
commissioner
abbott
just
spoke
to,
we
can
definitely
put
in
a
parking
lot
and
look
at
in
our
final
report.
If
there
are
things
we
we
may
recommend
or
options
we
may
want
to
put
up
there
for
the
city's
consideration
in
the
future.
F
Thank
you
co-chair
garcia.
Well,
I
was
gonna
say
the
exact
same
thing
that
you
said
going
back
to
peter
commissioner
ginger's
comments.
I
I
wonder
too,
you
know,
there's
always
gonna
be
a
reaction
to
every
action,
that's
happening
and
it
may
occur.
You
know
it
may
occur
that
having
more
of
a
defined
scope
for
a
city
manager
or
a
city
coordinator
is
going
to
be
a
to
a
future
topic.
F
I
think
that
very
commissioner
clegg's
suggestion
for
another
meeting
is
really
good,
because
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
conversation
that
we
can
have
about
this
with
the
full.
With
with
our
work
group
and
with
the
full
group
you
know
going
back
to
when
we
revised
the
charter,
there
was
always
the
intent
that
we
wanted
to
do
some
substantial
changes,
because
a
lot
of
that
came
up
through
the
public
hearings.
F
While
we
were
revising
the
charter
and
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
about
often
is
what
I
raise
with
noah.
Today,
too,
is
you
know
I
how
constituent
services
are
handled
at
the
council
offices?
F
And
you
know,
I
don't
know
if
that's
a
process
that
if
that's
something
that
could
be
set
in
stone,
you
know,
does
a
city
clerk
hire
and
manage
at
least
one
person
in
every
council
office,
so
that
there's
continuity
so
that
there
is
institutional
memory
from
one
person
to
the
next.
You
know
I
think,
back
of
the
days
before
that
was
changed,
and
you
know
there
was
really
solid
constituent
service,
not
that
we
don't
have
it
now,
but
I'm
just
saying
you
know
it
was
seemed
like
it
was.
F
J
Yeah,
I
think
that's
pardon
me
for
stepping.
I
think,
that's
a
really
good
point.
I
mean
we
don't
have
to
do
everything
all
at
once.
I
mean
you
know
this.
The
charter
commission
will
continue
to
exist
and
additional
proposals
can
be
debated
and
submitted
right.
I
think
you
know,
because
minneapolis
has
been
really
slow
to
do.
Charter
reform
in
the
past,
we've
had
a
lot
of
proposals
that
have
died.
J
I
think
there's
kind
of
this
temptation
like
well,
if
there's
a
real
chance
this
year,
let's
let's
pump
everything
we
can
into
the
one
proposal
and
I
think
that's
exactly
the
wrong
idea,
which
is,
I
think,
partly
the
right
why
some
of
the
previous
efforts
have
failed?
It's
you
know.
St
paul,
for
example,
went
to
kind
of
a
strong
mayor
executive
system
in
1970
and
then
went
through
some.
You
know
they
went
to
a
part-time
council
in
1985..
J
Now
I
don't
think
a
part-time
council
is
ever
going
to
fly
in
minneapolis,
but
the
point
of
my
using
that
example
is:
there
are
a
lot
of
ways
we
can
tweak
down
the
road.
What
happens
here
we
can.
We
can
do
technical
amendments
down
the
road
with
with
subsequent
proposals
to
the
voters,
and
this
is
not
the
final
word
on
how
this
is
going
to
look.
J
You
know
some
some
technical,
fine
adjustments,
but
for
this
process
for
this
amendment,
I
think
we
ought
to
just
do
what
we
need
to
do
and
and
not
load
it
up
with
more
than
we
need
to
do.
B
Well,
and
also,
in
addition
to,
I
think
commissioner
matchkey
hits
on
a
good
point
with
regard
to
staffing
and
supporting
the
council,
which
is
one
of
the
options
we
listed
on.
The
memo
is
to
be
able
to,
and
also
as
we
look
at
this,
I
think
we're
really
looking
at
city
council
strong
as
the
legislative
body
and
the
mayor
as
the
executive,
having
the
two
really
balance
each
other
and
complimenting
each
other,
rather
than
having
an
imbalance
of
authority
or
power
between
the
two
and
looking
at
the
question.
B
Do
we
have
the
support
that
the
council
would
need
in
order
to
do
the
full
breadth
of
policy
making
and
constituent
services
that
it
is
really
good
at
that
it?
That
is
its
strength
and
really
looking
at
playing
to
the
strengths
of
each
of
these.
B
Each
of
these
functions
to
really
again
help
them
complement
one
another,
so
cities,
the
city
governance,
can
really
come
together
to
focus
on
city
goals
and,
what's
best
to
the
overall
city,
and
I
think,
by
claire
making
some
of
these
clarifications
in
the
charter.
B
We
would
hope
to
kind
of
ameliorate
some
of
these
toe
steppings
and
stepping
on
toes
and
things
like
maybe
mission
creep
when
it
comes
to
oversight
on
certain
issues.
Sometimes
you
know
the
council
member
may
say:
oh
this
is
we
have
authority
over
this,
but
then,
when
it
comes
to
an
issue
of
accountability,
they
can
perhaps
kind
of
backtrack,
because
that
is
how
the
the
charter
is
set
up.
The
charter's
not
clear
on
those
levels
of
accountability
and
in
order
to
have
clear
roles
and
functions,
we
need
to
have
clear
staffing.
B
F
Yeah,
I
just
was
going
to
add
on
to
your
conversation.
You
know
some
other
thoughts
that
are
going
through
my
head
when
I
read
the
reports
that
that
have
been
developed
and
I
think
about
what
the
different
staff
are
saying.
You
know
I
I
it
goes
back
to
commissioner
ginder's
question,
I
think,
and
and
down
the
road
this
you
know
this
will
have
to
be
a
part
of
a
functional
governance,
but
you
know
the
city
coordinator's
office
too,
who's
in
the
coordinator's
office.
What
projects
are
happening
out
of
there?
F
How
is
it
staffed?
How
are
they
working
with
department
heads?
How
are
they
coordinating
and
communicating
with
with
other
council
members?
I
mean
that
coordinator's
office
has
a
lot
going
on
and
a
lot
of
stuff
that's
happening
and
be
interesting
to
know
how
that
interfaces
with
with
the
department
heads
how
it
fits
into
their
work
plans.
F
Thinking
about
what
noah
had
said
about
clear
roles
and
clear
communication,
you
know
I
I
just
would
like
to
park
that
somewhere
to
commissioner
garcia
clarity
on
projects
and
roles
out
of
the
coordinator's
office,
and
how
does
that
fit
in
with
everything
else
going
on
in
the
city
with
the
department
heads.
B
B
B
E
I
would
just
suggest
that
you
consider
as
agenda
for
the
meeting
just
the
items
that
are
listed
in
in
your
memorandum
under
summary
of
initial
proposals,
and
there
are
six
of
them
and
that
we
just
go
through
them
one
by
one
and
see
where
there
is
agreement
and
where
there
is
not.
E
B
Sounds
good
yes,
so
we
will
meet
next
thursday
at
4.
30
talk
about
go
through
the
summary
of
initial
proposals,
one
by
one.
B
B
Is
there
anything
unsaid
or
anything?
I
may
have.
B
J
I
just
want
to
say
thanks
for
everybody,
and
you
know
I
don't
know
that
we'll
actually
have
a
draft
debate
next
week,
but
I
would
encourage
people
to
think
about.
As
you
go
through
the
item
of
of
six
proposals
that
we
put
together,
you
know
give
some
thought
to.
You
know:
go
back
to
the
charter
and
give
some
thought
to
the
language
that
would
implement
that
because
I
think
one
of
the
things
I'll
I'll
probably
have.
I
don't
know
that
I'll
have
it
in
the
form
of
a
document.
J
But
I
think
when
we
go
through
these
items,
one
by
one,
I
think
I'll
have
some
suggestions
for
the
kind
of
text
that
I'm
looking
for
to
kind
of
achieve
those
objectives,
and
so
so
it's
time
to
get
out
of
the
dictionaries
and
the
thesauruses
and
and
dig
up
your
your
your.
B
J
Elements
of
style,
diagram
sentence,
diagramming,
you
know,
that's,
that's
that's
what
we
need
to
start
thinking
about
so
and
and
thanks
to
everybody
for
your
time-
and
I
guess
we'll
see
you
all
next
thursday.
B
Yes,
commissioner,
hawkins.