City of Minneapolis, MN 2022 Minneapolis Boards & Commissions, 24 Jan 2022

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: January 24, 2022 Pedestrian Advisory Committee P&P Subcommittee

Description

Additional information at
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov

A

Okay, go ahead, peter.

B

Thank you, hi. Everyone uh we're just gonna start for the announcement that this meeting may involve remote participation by members, either by telephone or other electronic means due to the local public health emergency novel coronavirus pandemic. This is pursuant to the provisions of minnesota statute. Sections13D021.

B

That's the statement, hello, one and all welcome to the minneapolis pedestrian advisory committee's programs and policy subcommittee meeting for january 2022.

B

I am peter vader co-chair of this committee subcommittee with us with um julia curran also present at the meeting, and I've got the the um agenda coming up here. We have two two major two main items and militants. Gonna take the role by participant list, correct.

C

As they come in, so I've got you all.

B

Down, thank you, okay and then um so uh starting off is the hennepin avenue south reconstruction project uh which we're visiting with programs and policies because uh to to um consider the resolution, as we passed last year, subsequent to the planner's visit to ine the infrastructure and engineering subcommittee last week, um which I did not uh attend, uh but I'm hoping barbara can give us. Barbara was not there right. There.

A

B

I know christopher could, uh but the idea is we're visiting here with the resolution here, because the the resolution takes uh uh the design and account and also the the policy impacts, and you know where we, where we see it uh where we see it uh affecting and impacting on our uh uh adopted minneapolis policy. So that's why we have it here today and uh that will be a major part of our meeting and then we're gonna talk about um city elected uh official connecting uh later on too.

B

um So uh I will ask us someone to uh to to sum up like where, where it was left on thursday from in e and victor, uh I need co-chair. Christopher hofer is online. Did they maybe.

D

After the presentation, um there was an acknowledgement that there would be more time to discuss it in detail during this subcommittee meeting, but uh the committee, I believe, had consensus around um strongly supporting the um the plan, as it exists um being able to uh add some suggestions, but not to the point that it um undercuts the uh general approval of it so really sort of thinking in three parts. One supporting the plan.

D

That's presented uh two explaining why we support it that it advances the including advancing the um interests and requirements and goals of the transportation action plan, vision zero, as well as the climate crisis, declaration of emergency, among others, uh but then on three being able to make some suggestions, but again, not so many um uh criticisms that it uh frankly undercuts the general support of what's presented. I think that encapsulates how it was left.

B

All right, good thanks uh anybody was there at the meeting. You have any other uh comments on it. Was there any id you want. So what's that what's up uh type in I'm kind of curious myself is where we're writing into. It sounds like we're writing a news, a new, shorter resolution for the purposes of for the for this uh thirty percent presentation.

D

That's um that's my understanding.

C

A

Yeah, I have a question um when I looked at it because I wasn't at the meeting, because I was sick. um It looked to me like this. The most positive things I saw were changes of the intersections up until lake street, which still included the five I think four or five um lanes, but and also the full complete, um unbroken bicycle lane. Those are the two things that I noticed significantly were there other things uh christopher and whoever else was there, but because I know when they were here the first time it was.

A

um There was a lot of issues. We had a lot of issues, so I'm I'm glad to hear that they, I was glad to see that they made those changes, and I wondered if I missed some other changes too.

C

D

C

D

Go ahead, julia.

C

um At fremont and at 25th and a half straight there's some controlled intersection um uh additions that were part of the update that are significant and then there's also a bike connection. I think that might be what you're referencing towards the bridge yeah yeah.

A

Yeah, I was surprised, but I was very pleased to see those changes.

A

That's all I have.

B

Thank you, barb. Is there consensus around our a resolution rewrite uh now a new resolution? We write that will uh speak to supporting the project, uh not addressing necessarily addressing any design components uh that is for correction or or anything, but is this a resolution supporting the project and citing where it's uh consistent or you know, with executing adopt a policy? Is that sort of the tact we want to take?

B

I guess I would ask chris cartheiser if that thing, if he has, if there's any uh advice on a on that on that, whatever it's strategically or tactically, that what that? What that, um what a resolution, this stage should look like relative to those those concerns.

E

Yeah, I would say right now, um like general support and expressing that, if that's how the group feels is an important thing to do, um I I think the the tactic you've all outlined about like not stressing too much on the like details and and mostly just expressing support, if that's how you all feel um is, is probably the best move.

E

um I don't know if that fully answers your question, peter if there's yeah anything else, you're looking for, I think it's a good strategy, though.

B

E

And actually, maybe to add on that, like, I would also say like what barb said about like the fact that um a bikeway being a part of it, the whole way through is important like if there are a few key reasons why you support this layout over something else like I, I would put in why you why you think this is the right layout in that statement of support.

C

Just to clarify the bike lane does not flow the whole the length of it.

A

Oh it doesn't, I thought it did.

C

No, no, it there's still no bike lane between douglas and franklin.

A

Okay, I didn't notice that I'm sorry.

C

No no worries, I think um that, for whatever reason that portion is not seen as consequential, um so it's been I'm hearing a lot of talk about it being more connected, and maybe it is thinking of it as being a longer distance that people might be traveling along it, that it does provide like a downtown top down um route that would be fairly fully protected. I think.

B

C

I I would agree with that consensus. I don't know how much we've we've shared with the project staff areas that we think could continue to be improved and.

F

C

Don't know that there's much point in putting them in this resolution, given that the audience of the resolution is um city, council members and you know who maybe need to be hearing really clearly um the strength of our support.

C

I don't think we've ever had a project that we've looked at and been like. That's exactly what we want um and we are dealing now with a lot of new council members and a project that has had some vitriol against it. So I think um keeping our messaging as clear as possible might be the right tactic.

A

I think too, that tying it to transportation action plan or the the values of the um the policies that the city has passed and encourages is also important. Just to restate that that this seems to you know um speak to the speak, to the policies of the transportation action plan, and if you want to be more specific about that, I just think that's a good idea briefly and concisely, but I think that helps echo our support.

C

Agree, I'm curious if we want to give if we need to give the context of this being kind of one of the first city streets of this level and one of the only ones that the city controls to have to be being planned after the passage of vision, zero and transportation action plan, or if that knowledge will be already held by the people. Reading it.

D

This is christopher, I think the um just to be underscoring that I think we should include that in the resolution. Just that uh hennepin is uniquely within the city's purview and does not involve uh coordinated coordination with other partners, and you know something like that.

D

That this is their baby. um This is all on them, so, uh but then to present it in a way that, um because I think this is a very um divisive uh project in some locales and I think they need to be presented, they, the council members, need to be presented with uh a simple up or down, and we should firmly underscore up. So I.

A

C

And just to clarify um along christopher, along with that that point also just the timing of it. I don't know I think, of legal precedence which I don't really know anything about, but the idea that, if we did not take into consideration what we call for in the transportation action plan, prime emergency. All of that. What does it mean for implementing those in future projects versus ignoring our existing policies? That we've worked so hard to design and pass.

D

C

D

Absolutely concur, I don't think it's necessarily a you know a binding president, but absolutely is a political president, because if we can't do it on this project, which is a solely a city project that could be locked into place for 40 or 50 years, if they don't do anything, then the passage of the climate urgency and the tap and vision zero are, in effect.

B

Thank you all. um You know abigail's on the call too, as a austin and and matt and and neil your former adjacent to your former workplace and all this stuff. I I'm I'm interested if particularly any of y'all we're at thursday's meeting I and e, if you, if you have any takeaways from that to you, you'd, um consider incorporating it uh in our resolution.

B

G

B

G

You can hear me.

H

G

uh Yes, I was, I was at thursday's meeting and I agree with everybody. I think it should be yeah, concise and pinpoint that this is a a project that is kind of the first big one and one of the only big ones that can really um ground our policies. You know that the city has, um and I'm just curious did anyone want to take on writing it.

G

I don't know if we had like a plan for who was going to take on the first draft, who would want to be involved in the editing process, but I know we're still kind of putting together our ideas, but that's all I have to say. I think what everyone's saying sounds really good. So far,.

B

Thanks abigail.

B

Well, I've got I'm attaching notes here uh to our you know. We in our.

B

Spoke to a lot of these topics, policy topics in our april 2021 um resolution. So it feels like something like uh just looking at it that we can. You know, pull out or focus in on the policy components that resolution and you know, emphasizing in the ways that we've talked about today. um You know where it's uh our first post vision, zero and post-hat project on a major.

B

You know just a just a it could be a more major corridor, etc and what it can mean for for future product projects, and we also talked about it then, like really just like you know, projects, not necessarily just the city too, but it could be a great example for the those those streets that aren't necessarily strictly many out under minneapolis control, the county in the state. As I run um so uh abigail. Having asked a question I would, um I could take on a take on a first draft in the next day or two.

A

I'd be glad to help and review it. If you want me to peter.

B

Okay, then let me do that then I'll do the first I'll do the first rough draft and I'll send it to barb and uh barbie. You too, uh julia.

C

uh Yeah- or I mean I could be after barb- I I don't want.

A

Okay, um you want to look at it too, go ahead, all right. It's an open, bonding.

C

I'm just wondering I know sometimes when we're doing ine um resolutions, we've done sort of the bullet points of what we want included. Would that be helpful to do before um before you take a crack at it peter or do you feel like you've got that or others? If they're, I don't know if we've brought up everything, people are thinking about yeah.

B

If we've talked about everything, uh I'm saying I'm all the years and still waiting, we can hear for the next things that come up over the next hour or whatever I'm I'll I'll add in um just, but I um at the same time I feel like I forgot I've gotta uh what I've written down. I think I've got a good, certainly good start, and I I believe, uh I'm confident between me and barbara will have us we'll have a real first draft.

C

I mean to some extent this is such a big project that pulls together so many of the aspects and things we've talked about within the pack that it seems, like we've, been training for this our whole 10 years on here, so for.

B

C

Fully fully trust your take on it peter and then barbara's bed, yeah.

B

Just we're kind of getting through that we're going through this topic pretty quickly, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna slow it down. Just if I can, just since you brought up a bullet point thing if there are, um if people want to, uh I feel, like I've got good policy oriented notes so going back to the design uh components of this. What should what do you think the design close to this of this project are would be best for this. For this resolution I feel like at the policy side.

B

You know I feel like I'll, be able to flesh that out pretty well, so is it uh the the.

C

B

Bus lanes spike lanes.

D

I think I think those two things I think the plan is to make it for the first time, a truly multi-modal street through minneapolis dedicated bus lines, biplanes pedestrian um quote lanes as well as motor vehicle before it was neither of those things because it didn't have dedicated bike lanes or bus lanes. But this is the fact this is an opportunity to make it truly multi-mobile multi-modal, um consistent with the visions and requirements articulated in the tap vision, zero climate emergency everything else and that the the detail work on the intersections and the medians.

D

Reinforce the safety, usability and convenience for the full spectrum of the road users regarding no disregarding what mode they might be using at the same time. So I you know before it was a. It was a motor vehicle street. It was um so.

B

All right, christopher, so um putting it uh uh my way or putting it for whatever saying so we're talking about a bullet list. We're talking about we're talking about this. This is a this. Is a generational design? That's going to give us a truly multimodal uh hennepin avenue south um and the truly multimodal hennepin amber south depends on all.

B

You know these bullet lists of all these features that are incorporated the bus lanes, the bike lanes, the medians, you know the loss of any of which, in exchange for whatever else is does by including all these design features and saying these are being explicit that these are all these are critical, integral to a multimodal uh hennepin avenue south we don't just you know.

B

We said that we need all things: we're not just focused on the bus lane or the bike lane or if we lose or or the medians, but any one of those things and whatever else in exchange for whatever, whatever whatever else is taken back up just compromises, the you know we're no longer meeting the the goals of our uh of our policy or meeting our policies so.

D

Does that be the reason that those.

B

C

I think that what the medians represent to me is not necessarily that they are what we would recommend, but that they are the city staff looking for how to solve design problems and constraints in creative ways in ways that we maybe haven't used before so so.

C

Seeing how strategic and how purposeful and creative and, like the level of expertise and effort that has gone into creating these solutions um means that's what they're telling us is that the medians do this, whereas the bike lanes in the bus lanes are things that I think we support really broadly.

A

I I think it's important julia to state that that we really to really loud the the the work and effort and creativity that they've put into this, to make it a a truly multimodal street as opposed to what we're used to, um and we don't have to say that. But I think they deserve credit for that. I think um they're to the future they're, not looking backward, which I really when I looked at, that I thought they're looking ahead, not backward and that I thought that was great.

C

Yeah, I feel, like there's, been a shift in the the some of the language that I've heard in presentations around hennepin. That hasn't been present previously coming from um presenters to our committee, and I I really really appreciate it talking about how the status quo is not an option like that world is falling away and we are designing within the real world and within increasingly intense climate breakdown, with rapid mode share shift.

H

C

Thing that I might I don't know quite how to work it in if it's a bullet point, but the idea that um this is a street, that other parts of the city will also be looking to to imagine what is possible for safer, more community oriented um corridors elsewhere.

C

So the the relevance to the city as a whole.

B

Yeah, I think I hear you julia. uh You know that that uh you know I can see a place where that fits. You know certainly fits very nicely.

B

D

B

Christopher go ahead. Sorry.

D

Yeah just um one question: this is kind of for chris and I um I'm not asking for uh stories out of school or you use your crystal ball, but is the new is the appointment of a new director of public works? Does it change anything regarding the timing or the composition of when this is going to be brought to the council.

E

As as excuse me, as far as I know um like that, it doesn't affect the schedule, but um I mean there's been a lot of a lot of changes with the new structure and new like mayor city, council structure and things like that, and so like there are unanswered questions that have impacted schedules uh on our end. So, like hey, I guess kind of a diplomatic.

E

I I I can't really see see either way, and I I I don't have a crystal ball like you said, but um I I yeah, so I I would say, as of now anything that's been put out there around schedule and timing is, is kind of the current thing to look to.

D

You and and peter I just want to underscore- I mean I don't know if we need to sort of uh put this phrase in there, but you know this is an opportunity to build out hennepin in a truly multimodal form for the first time and for the future rather than rebuilding. For the past I mean you know, we remember the other design was just. I don't even see the point of rebuilding it because it was kind of the same multimodal for the future, not just rebuilding the past.

B

Yeah well taken austin, hello,.

F

Hello, thank you. um I think you know part of this. We kind of alluded to this previously. Is that, like this street hennepin avenue south is such an iconic street in our city, most people know about it.

F

Most people have been to it it's very popular and that these these folks have an opportunity to really set a precedent kind of like what we said previously, and you know there might even be some like political reaction to that too, because so many people have an interest in this area and it'd be interesting to know what, like the council has to. You know say about that too. I don't know.

F

I just remember somebody previously in this meeting, saying something along the lines of are there political interests or other interests in this, and you know making sure that, no matter whose interests are out there, that the plans of the city, the transportation action plan, for example, and other plans too, are still adhered to. So to make sure that we can test these plans to see if they're actually going to work in this circumstance, because if they do, they can work in future planning projects as well.

F

I hope that made sense. If you have any questions, I can try to talk more about it, but that's just kind of what's on my mind.

B

Okay, austin yeah uh yeah. I welcome all your thoughts on it. You know uh uh if you're, if there's something you want to say more, but that's where we're here. um uh I don't know if you're feeling, I don't know if it's a when we get into the political arena, if it's, uh if it's um sensitive or whatever I don't know, if that's that's a difference.

B

um The pipe back up christopher.

D

Yes, um I've read some materials lately and uh that there's an argument being put forth that this plan is ableist because it doesn't provide.

D

Deficient parking for those with mobility issues or seniors with mobility issues, or something like that. I've read it in a number of different forums from you know twitter to comments in the paper to you know that kind of thing. With that being said, um I would like, if, if possible, I would like someone to give me a nice way of articulating why that is false. I mean it automatically assumes that none of these people will ride the bus, because this enhances bus service or that they will wheel anywhere.

D

It assumes makes massive assumptions, um but is it fair to say that there's still parking on side streets um and uh is there anything else that I'm missing about that because it it's kind of become a talking point in the building which I live in? I actually, I just had a conversation this morning with someone on phone about it. um Does anybody have any guidance for me and talking points on that.

C

Metro mobility: they work to make sure the metro, mobility drop-off points like that's still being part of, what's being considered, um there's a lot of people with disabilities who cannot.

F

C

And disabled people by and large, there's a separate minimum wage federally for for people with disabilities.

C

So the ability to own a car as somebody with disabilities is like it's more of a financial stretch given that people with disabilities are often lower income, so planning around car access, erases a whole slew of people who who are prevented from driving, whether by impaired vision or epilepsy, or any of the many disabilities that can preclude it and people who are precluded from driving because of their economic circumstances, and it also kind of forces people into driving, who maybe that wouldn't be ideal for them as reaction times flow with aging or whatever else.

C

It's like forcing people to have cars to be able to access society automatically eliminates a lot of disabled people from participating in community and.

F

I don't I haven't seen those.

C

Arguments put forward sincerely, honestly, I don't think they're coming from people who've actually um spent time with like it. Just it there's a disconnect. It feels like it's kind of predatory how it's being used.

D

C

D

Turns or not, but I appreciate the way you articulated that and I'm glad it's in this recall.

B

Yeah julia. Thank you for that. Unless.

H

I hear those unless I hear those opinions from the disability committee and donna herself they're baloney, because.

A

That's just saying.

C

She can't drive over there.

H

C

H

Good luck! Getting anybody blind to drive.

C

H

The whole argument is species is hell, that's people from who can drive trying to try to try to use the disabled, so they can eat their stupid way of life. They don't go for that at all.

B

If anyone's heard the ableist, the ableist argument taken to us, you know take it, it would follow that the same people would call for entirely blue placard parking where there is parking along ahead of him, but that never that never sounds right. Okay, austin are you, austin's got his hand up.

F

Yeah, I think julia you articulated that so well. I think that in my summary, it's that increased parking does not equal increased accessibility. It only increases accessibility for those privileged enough to have their own vehicles, and I I I always like to put you know the disability community.

F

First, if we're ever trying to advocate for for these this community, you know what what do they say and then I very rarely ever hear those folks say like oh yeah, we just need more parking and all my disability issues will be solved like no, that's very not the case, and I think this is such a good point to what I was trying to say earlier, but I really didn't have the words for it.

F

Is that this, since it's such a big project, iconic street, it's going to become political, I would assume the front page of some newspaper is going to be like they're, destroying hennepin avenue and and really so long as we can somehow articulate that in our letter of support or our resolution, that, regardless of whatever you know, whatever way, people will try to attack this project.

F

We really are trying to work towards the common good of the streets for everybody, a civil, that's a city, that's livable, for everybody, um because yeah, I suspect we will continue to hear negative, really harsh things like this too, as the project moves forward and becomes more public.

C

One of the things just I I mentioned this in the ime meeting, but I did actually uh I've gone out and talked to people a lot about it. I live on hennepin and um people by and large are really enthusiastic, and it's just that most people, don't they they don't see themselves as being part of the street planning process. Surprisingly enough and I've heard a lot of surprise of like what do you mean it's controversial like there's, just this there's almost a like bewilderment that this would not be what we're obviously doing.

C

C

I think what you brought up austin about it being almost the inherently reactionary thing to a prominent street is absolutely the case, but I don't think the reactionary aspect is a reflection of maybe the broader conversation there's just such a huge number of people who have other things going on and who see this as the progression the like who want to be able to bike safely to their job or whatever it is that they're not showing up, because they don't know they need to, because it doesn't make sense that you would need to argue for that.

C

You know so it's not a back and forth of two roughly equal views in terms of the number of people holding them.

A

I also think you know: change is hard for everybody, but if you're privileged you, you often get your own way. You don't have to change very much, and so you know those are the voices that speak out because they're frustrated that you know I'm not getting my own way. um I and I don't mean that as cynical as it sounds, I think it's true.

A

I mean those are the voices that we're hearing people who want um the convenience back in their life that they're used to and they aren't looking at the general populace they aren't looking at. You know I agree with julia. I think most people are really in support of this and they're the voices that we often don't hear because they don't access. You know they don't write to the star tribune and they aren't on twitter they're, just walking around doing their lives, and um so I am with you guys. I think it's a ridiculous argument.

A

C

Yeah, it didn't sound, cynical barb.

B

Because I think all.

C

Of us have some resistance to change, but it's only like it's a specific subset of people for whom the status quo is working and therefore, who would if it isn't working, I think you're more open to change you're like yeah. That's definitely not great, so it's almost a natural, loud resistance, but that doesn't mean it like. There's it's okay. We can hold space for people feeling stressed by change, since that's just a human thing, without giving credence to whatever is thrown up as a reason for it.

A

C

The one thing I don't know if this goes sorry.

B

No go ahead. Go ahead, good.

C

um With the topic of change in somewhere between 99 and 2002 hennepin avenue had, I think it was a middle and overlay. It had some major adjustments made to the street, so it was changed within um the life of the street since 1957 when it was last reconstructed and that change was a pretty major one, but it didn't completely like the street continued on the people. People continue doing what people do so, if there's any value to hearkening back to living memory, change where 1957 might feel um like everything was completely different I'd.

C

I would put that out there and I could try and find more details if that is useful, to include.

B

I guess I'd hear more about that.

C

um There were uh hennepin's a diagonal street, so every place uh vertical or horizontal street intersected with it. They all intersected like directly, which created a tiny, a bunch of tiny little triangles of.

B

C

Just a lot of pavement to craft like super white crossings or weird pork caps, those were closed off and that place to vehicles and that space was reclaimed for planting. There's ginkgos and rose bushes on the west side of the street, where there was a bit more space and benches and some maybe service ferry bushes, something on the east side um and that there was a shift in like drivers had parked along those tiny pork chops.

C

I don't know if it was legal or not because they were so small, but there was quote unquote a loss of parking inherent to that and it's been like sebastian joe's. Was there and they've seen the benefit of having gathering space? um I don't know when isle's been coffee started, but they were probably right around then there's businesses that have been there since then, even though I'm not aware of any businesses that have been in place since 1957..

C

um It's still like there's, I don't know how long our traffic engineers have been in their roles, but um alan might remember it. um There might be others who have bad as part of their understanding of the street, but it.

I

C

It was what we would like if we saw that project now. I feel like we'd, be really enthusiastic, because it was such a major shift in um reclaiming space for people and for community uses and reducing numbers of crossings and crossing distances.

B

And if the concept of that that might be useful, I mean, if it fits in the resolution, is one just conveniently, of course, with one of my opinions on this is like where these types of things where these multimodal streets are made across the country, whether it's just whatever these things are, whenever the will is finally exerted and uh executed to to remove the parking.

B

Nobody, including the businesses, ever, wants it to go back right. We they're they yo they once it hap. When it happens, you know it's. Nobody wants to return to to the old ways. You know on streets like this, and uh I guess we bring up 12th or whatever it is in uh manhattan uh or uh where just where the human cry was loud, but the, but the businesses would never go back. All these three businesses would never go back to them, they're, getting what they're seeing they're seeing all the success of it.

B

So it's fun it's funny on this stuff. We always feel, I feel, like a half of us, were we're arguing for both sides here, really, because we're really trying to save uh you know in supporting and a project like this, it helps we're trying to save the people against it. You know from themselves. You know, I guess the businesses anyway, in a lot of ways. I know um anyway um welcome those are uh uh so um I got those notes and I'll uh work to conceptualize them into our into our uh new super support.

B

Supportive um and uh cogent, concise resolution of support uh any last thoughts on this. Anybody want to go around to anybody any final thoughts on this on this topic. Before we uh move on to our other agenda items.

B

Seeing no hands well this one! This! The next uh agenda item is about connecting with elected officials uh and it I think, attenuates nicely with our with this uh with our first topic, um this.

B

Last I was aware I think we have the the pack last undertook this four years ago after the the last uh city council was seated in 2017, so this happened in 2018.

B

We, we um people vol people on our unpack volunteered to take meetings uh in association with a bac member to the various uh to the various councilmen to various council members knew it new and existing. I took a couple with the award 11 and ward 13 and um uh I can talk a little about how that went, um uh but I also want to hear from other people that I know I know abigail took meetings and I and is there anyone else here who took a meeting at that time?

B

Barb did you do sandra johnson or anybody.

A

I I did not because I meant to and then stuff happened. I never did. I.

I

F

A

Sure and he's still, my guy- I mean he stayed no. I was bad.

I

Which was a sign of things to come, so that was pretty funny.

B

uh Is abigail on the abigail call cube might have jumped.

H

B

I wanted our chairs uh participation and this at some point. I don't think we don't have to be right now in helping organize um to this we're going to organize something, a a list of people just to pack members and who we might who and who, who they want to go visit for the at the city, council or other elected officials. um uh In four years ago uh I took two meetings.

B

I'll just explain just go over a couple minutes how mine went with ward, 11 and ward 13 and um are uh uh both generous with their time. I mean this is a half hour. You know it's a half hour meeting in person that might not even happen without that way assuming, but it was a a chance to you know to to introduce or reintroduce our our work at pac and um at the same time uh I don't know we had specific projects going on at that time.

B

There must have been that we that we talked about, but we try to keep it uh policy type discussions rather than you know, make them think that we're you know there to speak. For our you know, specific ward or neighborhood, or or what or whatever talk about, uh but uh you know to be heavy on the um the police, the policy side of things, of course, thank them for their presumed support and let them know what might be what might be coming up in the in the nearer term. Medium term.

B

Julia, did you see anybody.

C

I did not um I, uh I have not met up with my council member um in a while, um and I know that I I supported her challenger in 2017, and I don't think that went over well with her.

C

I did meet with councilmember fletcher, who actually reached out to me when I was tweeting about about hennepin avenue in in his ward, and he was really great to meet with um it. Was you know, seeing that kind of curiosity from a council member even when it's not necessarily your own? um It was just heartening and I would recommend you know if you do have a council member who might be willing to meet with you or talk to you um or who's receptive about finding out more about.

C

You know what the barriers that you see around walkability and disability access within our city just from a it, helps to hear other people care about it and to so much of what we do can feel very slow um and very.

I

Disproportionate.

C

To the scope of what we face so knowing that there's it was an affirmation of the, um I guess, the expertise that I've developed being on the pack and that I maybe didn't realize I had even coming to it and um and a reminder of all of us there's so many of us caring and it might not look the same from every council member because there's it's the city's, a big thing to deal with so um yeah. I want.

C

I wouldn't think that, just because we see somebody who doesn't maybe seem to be aligned or doesn't necessarily get, it doesn't mean that they're not willing to there's just so much to have to grasp, especially as a new council member that uh that those conversations can be really good and helpful and keep it. It's kept me motivated and helped me also assure other people that we do have elected officials who who want to do well by us. I mean we don't have fletcher anymore, but.

I

C

And hoping for others as well, that that would apply.

B

And um so yeah keeping in mind that we're not we're still we're, we aren't uh as pac members we're not officially appointed by our or attached to our particular board of residents.

B

You know we'd be especially free to um meet with any any of the council members that we'd like to go and we could reach out on pac behalf uh uh bac has it differently and that may affect their their interest, but or uh participation in a in something like this, but it seemed to work pretty well, but it seemed to work, be a good half-hour meeting and my you know novice opinion back that it was that you know half an hour for pac and bac with account with a with the what a one-on-one two-on-one with the councilmember was that it was uh felt felt effective.

B

um They felt prepared both the cases felt prepared. um One thing in particular was like new head at their hands. You know uh you know here are the people, you know here's the deaths of mike. You know the traffic deaths of my community and my ward over the last. You know over my term and all that so new knew what they can. You know certainly had we had some understanding right away about. You know the the issues of what what you know, what what's what safety, pedestrian safety meant and the lack thereof.

C

I think one other thing to highlight: maybe since we have quite a few new council members coming in- is that part of whatever we're an advisory committee? And it's a little bit up to us to make that advice.

C

Put that advice in front of our council members and in front of uh our electeds. So we have people who maybe aren't aware of our committee right now or or the purview of what we do or where we can be helpful, but the knowledge that we hold. um So this is also a time to let them know that they they want to be advised by us that we have valuable things to say that will help them do better jobs um even more effectively for the communities counting on them.

B

Absolutely that's a good meeting, you know it's not. You know, that's what you can do for me, but here's remember what we can do for you. What you know what the with the body of knowledge we have and consulting resources that we are for you for you and your uh your constituents and your in your policy and and board work. So you know well yeah.

F

Thank you for mentioning that.

B

um I want to hear from everybody we can about. I mean I'm thinking about what uh action item here would be. I simply uh I could send it. We could generate a.

F

B

Up sheet like we did last time and just uh list out our war, let's start our council members and let uh let pass it around our pack members. Let people.

B

Members sign up as their interest uh uh compels them interest and, or you know, association with their relationship with the people compels them.

C

Are we thinking of doing this with the back this time or or staying more tax specific.

B

I was going to ask abigail about that and maybe uh uh uh yeah, but I've certainly just everybody's opinion on that, but abigail's, particularly who works works pretty you know you know uh hand to glove with uh with their bac counterparts, so get their get abigail's opinion on that austin.

F

I see and I'm a relatively new pac member too, so that's my disclaimer. I see pros and cons for both doing a joint meeting and also doing an individualized meeting. So I support this whole idea and if anything, it might be nice to kind of have individualized time as just the pack, but I also see a pro to being able to like collaborate with the back as well, so on both ways.

C

I think I agree and I don't knowing that the back is appointed by council members. I don't know how that shifts it like, if that gives an extra in, because there's already an established relationship with those council members or if um we come across as more free agents and therefore you know, maybe there's something more approachable about that if we aren't showing up with back members, but maybe there's also the chance for this not being a one-off but but we're establishing these connections over time too.

C

And if there's a barrier to trying to schedule with another person or especially somebody that we might not know, maybe there's like just logistically, I remember as I'm talking about it, that we did have some trouble with being able to visit with back members um and getting all that scheduling together. So it might just be easier to start with just.

B

B

Well, let's fill out that sign up sheet, then that we can take it from there right. Then we could, if we could so we can, we can see if we want to, um and it may not be. It may be the case in some in some times we want to take the meeting jointly. Sometimes we don't have. Maybe we start from a pack only uh stamp a pack only sign up sheet and then uh and then take up bac counterpart participation.

B

Does that sound good to anybody.

A

You gotta be honest, peter looking out your window and seeing that palm tree sway it's very hard.

A

You can see it moving. Is that your window, that's a window.

H

Is it yeah yeah? Oh, it is moving too funny, so yeah.

A

Pretty cool anyway,.

B

I got that I think you know that is going to bring us to the end of our end of our agenda, subject to subject to announcements um at uh this point of the meeting um I.

A

Just have a question it came up, I don't know if you were talking to chris or what somebody asked chris hartheiser um has there been somebody appointed as the director of public works and I missed it at the meeting.

I

It was supposed to be appointed.

E

Yeah, um so they have been appointed. I I still don't remember. The the three names like I always forget about margaret and keller. Is that what you just said: okay,.

I

E

Yeah, so um I I don't, I don't believe she's officially started yet, um but she's been appointed and yeah well,.

C

But she hasn't been confirmed yet, and maybe that's something. I just thought that there's I've seen some groups talking about pulling together questions as part of the appointment process or the confirmation vote- and um I don't quite know like my understanding- is that she's almost certainly going to be appointed. But I that my understanding is based on nothing except for t. I think she resigned at mndot. So I assume that means she's feeling confident about it.

C

But maybe this like is that a strategic way to get some of these questions in front of the whole council or to help show what those priorities are? That's something we as a pac might want to send some questions to the council to have them. Ask her.

E

My gut reaction is that the plan that you all just discussed to like have one-on-one conversations with council members is, is probably the best way to do it like I, I I I'll never tell you to like not do like like, if you feel like going to a public meeting and like saying something like that's your your choice. I'll, never never say that you shouldn't.

D

But can I can I say it then chris.

E

D

Julian opportunity, but I think it is one fraught with peril. I think our best opportunities is more of a one-on-one without uh without the need of any sort of educational, performative.

H

D

A large stage I think, it'll be most effective. I think your instincts are good, but my gut just tells me we should do it in a more conversational.

C

D

C

Okay, that makes sense, I just wasn't sure, because I I was trying to figure out kind of what is going on with with some of the conversation I'm seeing and I didn't know as I was thinking about it yeah. um I would, I think, agree with you chris that unless the confirmation hearing is has has functions like that, traditionally, I'm.

I

C

If we'd make friends doing that.

A

E

C

E

Be interpreted, I don't even know if there's like a comment like section of of that meeting um there there might be, but I I don't even know.

C

Not so much comment because comment, we might be taking a position. My I haven't.

E

C

This thoroughly, but.

E

Yeah, I just mean, like formal period where, like you would even be allowed to say something at that meeting is like I'm not sure if they have that as a part of the structure of that meeting,.

C

Right and I don't think it would be- I think it would be more like um as what I would imagine if we did something it would be like the pack, as you are looking to confirm, a public works director appointee. The pac um request that you ask the following pedestrian related questions and weigh in not at all, but just say these are things that we value, therefore ask about them, um but that is neither here nor there. It sounds like we're not doing that. So.

B

I feel yeah I feel like the the fraught part of that is you know this this shot across the bow. If it is whether intention or not it feels like it does say, I don't whether we're asking questions or making comments. I don't know how we, how do we do that without you know what I have to, and you know I'm I'm timorous by nature. So maybe I'm wrong, but that's, but that's the uh that's.

B

I feel like we'll be working with them in our work with them, subsequent to the appointment and and uh presumed uh director keller taking taking taking her taking their their seat. That will be of all our best uh input and uh influence uh in our regular work and, like I said with the with our elected officials,.

E

And and I'll just say like I, I think it's really smart to meet one-on-one with council members right now like to start on a strong footing and.

C

E

That's a strategic political move that makes a lot of sense that, like you, all, deserve to to try and get the the ear of each of those those people- and um I don't know- I think it's a good way to like start out the new council mayor public works director structure, like kind of new form of government around transportation at the city, so.

C

Would we want to do any of this with with the mayors as well, then.

E

I don't know that I can facilitate that I'll. I'll, just be honest um again, like you're welcome to reach freaked out, but, like I, I don't think that's an ask that I can um run forward or like commit to now like happening like there's, 50 boards and committees at the city and to say like cake and 150 pounds. A meeting with the mayor is probably a long shot. I'll just be honest, um I.

C

Mean we won't say 150, we'll say as as you're, probably most important board in committee, no disrespect to the others, but just like definitely in the top 10 of those that um can have a lot of whatever.

C

We would like to offer our assistants in helping you sort through these complicated things.

E

If you in the pack want to send that email, um that's something that again like I'll I'll, never tell you that you can't like.

H

Reach out to a public elected.

E

Official, I I don't know that I can help you with it like, ultimately,.

H

We'll make sure your fingerprints aren't on it. How about that.

C

H

Nobody'll ever know, um I'm gonna move to a gym.

H

B

And we're done thanks.

A

Everybody really thank you, take care.

C

Comments due friday for individuals, yep.