►
From YouTube: July 11, 2023 Heritage Preservation Commission
Description
Additional information at:
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov
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A
Foreign
good
afternoon,
I
call
to
order
the
July
11th
regular
meeting
in
the
Minneapolis
Heritage
preservation
commission.
For
the
record,
my
name
is
Barbara
Howard
and
I
chair
the
commission.
Just
a
reminder
to
please
silence
your
cell
phones
and
any
other
electronic
devices,
and
if
you
are
speaking
at
the
diocese
or
giving
public
testimony
to
speak
directly
into
the
microphone
with
the
clerk,
please
call
the
rolls
that
we
may
verify
the
presence
of
a
quorum.
C
B
A
A
Our
first
order
of
business
is
to
adopt
the
agenda
for
this
meeting.
We'll
work
from
the
agendas
that
are
available
over
by
the
clerk
I'll
go
through
the
agenda
and
sort
out
any
items
to
be
withdrawn,
continue
to
her
further
meeting
discussed
and
which
items
to
be
put
on
a
consent
agenda
to
be
approved,
as
recommended
by
staff
and
without
further
discussion.
A
Item
number
four
is
89:
10th
Street,
South,
Ward
7..
This
application
is
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness.
Item
number
four
will
be
on
consent
unless
someone
wants
to
speak
in
opposition
to
or
modify
the
staff
recommendation
item
number
five
611
van
White
Memorial
Boulevard
Ward
5..
This
application
is
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness.
Item
number
five
will
be
discussed.
Item
number
six
1600
Hennepin,
Avenue,
1601-1604,
Laurel,
Avenue,
Ward
7..
A
This
application
is
for
certificate
of
appropriateness.
Item
number
six
will
be
discussed
so
the
proposed
agenda.
The
consent
agenda
will
include
the
following
item:
item
number
489,
10th,
Street,
South,
Ward
7..
Is
there
any
opposition
from
Commissioners
to
the
staff
recommendations
for
these
items.
A
Hearing
no
opposition
to
placing
item
number
four
on
consent.
We
will
approve
the
consent
item
in
one
motion
at
the
start
of
the
meeting.
The
following
items
will
have
staff
presentation,
public
comment
and
commission
discussion
in
action.
Item
number:
five:
six:
eleven
van
White
Memorial
Boulevard
Ward;
five
item
number
six
1600
Hennepin,
Avenue,
1601-1604,
Laurel,
Avenue,
Ward,
7.,
Commissioners
may
I
have
a
motion
to
approve
the
proposed
agenda.
A
E
A
A
Opposed
say,
nay,
any
abstentions,
Epstein.
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Strothers.
The
minutes
are
approved
before
I
open
the
hearing
to
public
comments.
Let
me
summarize
the
process.
First,
we
will
act
on
the
consent.
Excuse
me
the
consent
agenda.
We
just
set
once
items
on
the
consent
agenda
are
approved.
The
commission
is
done
with
those
items
and
applicants
may
contact
the
planning
staff
tomorrow
for
next
steps.
A
After
the
consent
agenda
items
are
approved,
we
will
take
each
of
the
remaining
items
on
the
agenda
in
order
planning
staff
will
present
its
report
and
Commissioners
may
ask
questions
of
staff
and
I
will
open
in
the
public
hearing
and
we'll
hear
from
the
applicants
and
Commissioners
may
ask
questions
of
the
applicant
after
that.
We'll
invite
public
comments.
If
you
wish
to
speak,
you
need
to
do
two
things
you
need
to
sign
up
on
the
sheet
over
by
the
clerk.
A
If
you
haven't
done
this
already,
you
can
do
so
afterwards
and
when
you
come
up
to
testify,
you
must
state
your
name
and
address
for
the
record.
Please
keep
your
comments
specific
to
the
application
before
us
today.
If
we
have
a
lot
of
people
to
speak,
an
item
I'll
limit
comments
to
two
minutes.
I,
don't
think
that'll
be
an
issue
today.
A
A
A
A
B
A
A
H
Evening
Madam
chair
members
of
the
commission.
My
name
is
John
Smalley
and
I'm
pleased
to
be
before
you
this
evening
on
behalf
of
your
planner
Aaron
K,
to
present
a
certificate
of
appropriateness,
application
for
Sumner
Library,
an
individual
Historic
Landmark
located
at
611
van
White,
Memorial
Boulevard
staff
has
received
no
correspondence
pertaining
to
this
project.
H
Here
is
an
aerial
view
of
the
property's
location
outlined
in
blue
Sumner.
Library
was
built
in
1915
and
designed
by
Cecil
Bayless
Chapman
of
the
architectural
firm
Chapman
and
magni
in
the
tutor
Revival
Style.
The
original
buildings
is
the
L-shaped
portion
with
Gable
roofed
wings
and
a
tower
at
the
interior
corner
of
the
L,
which
you
can
see
here.
H
A
flat
roofed
Edition
was
built
on
the
west
elevation
in
1927
and
another
flight.
Roofed
Edition
was
built
on
the
North
elevation
in
1939..
In
1938,
the
building
was
moved
100
feet
to
the
north.
When
Olson
Memorial
Highway
was
widened
in
2004
and
2005,
a
large
Edition
was
built
at
the
northwest
corner
of
the
building
and
along
the
west
Edition,
which
created
a
new
main
entrance
to
the
north
elevation.
H
H
Sumner
Library
is
significant
in
the
area
of
social
history
and
education
for
its
role
as
a
community
cultural
resource,
especially
to
immigrants
and
Jewish
Jewish
residents
on
the
north
side,
for
its
association
with
librarian
Gracia
Countryman
and
in
the
area
of
architecture.
As
an
example
of
the
standard
plan
for
a
Carnegie
Library,
as
well
as
its
distinctive
tutor,
Revival
Style.
H
According
to
the
local
designation,
the
period
of
significance
is
1915
to
1996
the
date
when
the
property
was
designated.
The
national
register
of
historic
places,
nomination
form
uses
1915-1949
as
the
period
of
significance
likely
due
to
the
50-year
rule
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
application
includes
roof
replacement,
alterations
to
landscape
features,
other
exterior
alterations
and
interior
alterations
in
the
historic
main
floor.
Reading
rooms
alterations
to
other
interior
areas
of
the
library
are
not
included
in
this
application.
H
I'll
first
address
the
exterior
alterations,
followed
by
the
interior
alterations
and
their
compliance
with
the
design
guidelines
and
the
Secretary
of
the
Interior
standards
for
rehabilitation
on
the
exterior.
The
applicant
is
proposing
several
repairs,
including
the
brickney
wall
near
the
southeast
or
historic
entrance
steel
gate
to
the
mechanical
enclosure
and
deteriorated
masonry
as
needed.
H
The
applicant
is
also
proposing
in-ground
replacement
of
the
following
the
concrete
steps
railing
and
North
Southeast
or
historic
entrance
the
door
at
the
lower
level
on
the
East
elevation
of
the
1939
Edition
aluminum
storm
windows.
Deteriorated
masonry
is
needed.
The
stone
parapet
cap
on
the
1939
Edition
and
the
parking
lot
surface
staff
finds
that
repair
or
in-kind
replacement
is
appropriate
to
preserve
these
features
and
meet
the
standards
for.
H
The
proposed
alterations
are
minimal
and
include
changes
to
the
trees,
plantings
and
furniture
near
the
southeast
corner
regrading
along
the
west
elevation
of
the
2004-2005
Edition,
an
installation
of
new
grass
turf
modifying
the
sidewalk
layout
cleaning
cleaning,
the
monument
sign
replacing
the
Bollard
at
the
north
entrance,
removing
concrete
downspout
drains
and
splash
block
to
be
replaced
by
concrete
downspout
drain
pads
an
installation
of
drain
tile
around
much
of
the
perimeter
below
grade.
Most
of
these
changes
will
occur
at
grade
or
on
the
rear
or
North
elevation
and
will
not
be
visible
from
the
public
right-of-way.
H
H
The
original
roofing
material
was
slate
and
the
roof
has
been
covered
with
asphalt
shingles,
since
the
1970s,
the
applicant
proposes
to
cover
the
roof
with
metal.
Shingle
roofing
units
that
match
the
color
of
the
historic
slate
and
the
applicant
has
kindly
brought
a
sample
and
I'll
pass
that
around.
H
H
The
applicant
is
proposing
to
install
a
sprinkler
system,
repaint
interior
walls
that
are
already
painted,
remove
window
shades
and
brackets
remove
the
linoleum
flooring
and
replace
with
carpet
fix
a
door
in
the
northeast
corner,
update
signage
and
alter
the
historic
wood
shelves
to
remove
asbestos
and
increase
their
depth
by
three
inches
per
the
design
guidelines.
The
retention
of
wood,
decorative
items,
plaster
ceiling,
plaster,
ornamentation,
fireplaces
and
windows
are
important
to
the
designation
of
the
property.
H
And
here's
a
view
toward
the
South
reading
room
regarding
the
sprinkler
system,
the
applicant
explored
options
to
minimize
impacts
to
the
plaster
ceiling.
They
found
that
there
was
not
enough
access
above
for
the
system
and
that
this
option
might
involve
significant
disturbance
to
the
ceiling.
Instead,
the
applicant
proposes
to
suspend
the
system
from
the
ceilings
the
applicant
is
indicated
to
staff
that
they
intend
to
keep
the
sprinkler
pipes
as
close
to
the
beams
as
possible.
H
The
applicant
would
like
to
remove
asbestos
found
behind
the
case,
backs
and
extend
the
shelves
by
three
inches
to
increase
the
functionality
of
the
shelving.
The
applicant
proposes
to
add
wood
strips
to
the
rear
of
the
shelves,
which
will
minimize
visibility
of
the
alteration
staff
proposes,
conditioning
that
the
species
or
finish
of
the
wood
strips
should
be
differentiated
from
the
original
shelving,
so
that
they're
understood
to
be
additions,
while
also
maintaining
their
compatibility.
H
For
these
reasons,
cpad
recommends
that
the
Heritage
preservation
commission
adopts
staff
findings
and
approve
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
replace
the
roof,
alter
landscape
features,
conduct
other
exterior
alterations
and
interior
alterations
in
the
historic
main
floor.
Reading
rooms
of
the
Sumner
Library,
an
individual
Historic
Landmark,
located
at
611
van
White,
Memorial
Boulevard,
subject
to
the
following
conditions:
number
one:
the
roof
shall
be
replaced
in
kind
with
asphalt,
shingles
or
with
slate,
as
was
originally
installed
on
the
building
number
two.
H
The
applicant
shall
submit
fire
suppression,
plans
and
sections
to
staff
for
review
and
approval
prior
to
installation
to
ensure
the
sprinkler,
heads
and
lines
are
compatible
and
will
not
detract
from
the
character
defining
features
of
the
room.
The
sprinkler
heads
and
lines
shall
be
painted
to
match
the
ceiling.
Color
number
three
cleaning
of
the
historic
wood
windows
and
paint
removal
of
the
decorative
fascia
boards
will
be
undertaken
using
the
gentless
means
possible
number
four.
H
Number
five
three
inch
strips
added
to
the
rear
of
the
existing
historic
shelves
to
increase
shelf
depth
will
be
differentiated
from
the
original
wood
in
either
species
or
finish,
and
the
two
standard
conditions
of
approval
that
you're
all
quite
familiar
with.
This
concludes
my
presentation.
I'm
happy
to
stay
for
questions
and
the
applicant
is
here
and
would
like
to
make
a
presentation
as
well.
J
Thank
you,
chair
Howard
and
Dr
Smalley
for
your
presentation.
My
one
question
is
on
condition
number
two
you're
asking
that
the
sprinkler
lines
and
heads
shall
be
painted
to
match
the
ceiling
color.
It's
this
image
is
perfect.
Example.
Are
you
asking
that
it
matches
the
plaster
or
the
truss
the
wood
trusses.
G
I
am
Dr
Simone,
where
I
couldn't
quite
tell
from
the
drawings
when
I
looked
through
them
and
I
was
just
paging
through
them
again.
Where
exactly
are
the
sprinkler
lines
gonna
go?
Are
they
going
to
go
up
below
the
the
bottom
beam
of
the
truss?
Are
they
going
to
go
up
within
the
cavity
of
those
trusses.
H
J
A
K
Miss
Burke,
I'm
sure
Howard
and
commissioner
Melbourne
John
I
can
answer
this
question.
There
are
not
detailed
plans
for
fire
suppression
yet
as
to
where
they'll
go
specifically
the
from
what
we
understand
from
the
applicant.
They
can
perfectly
provide
more
clarification,
there's
just
a
concept
of
lawyer.
It's
planned
at
this
point.
Hence
why
the
condition
was
added
to
submit
plans
for
review
and
approval
to
detail
specifically
where
they
will
be
placed
in
how
far
down.
K
But
our
understanding
is
that
I
missed
that
I
was
going
to
refer
to
the
picture,
but
that
they'll
hang
down
from
the
the
vertical
beams.
Yeah
I
think
he
might
have
it
there.
K
Sorry,
the
longitudinal
ones
that
that
they'll
be
placed
on,
but
that
may
be
a
question
that
you
can
ask
the
the
applicant
for
clarification
on
when
they
present.
Thank
you.
A
I
just
want
to
confirm
that
I
heard
correctly
that
the
asphalt
shingles
date
to
the
1970s
Madam.
A
H
The
asphalt
shingles
were
installed
in
the
1970s.
If
they've
lasted
this
long,
we
should
promote
that
company
offline.
H
A
G
H
Or
Madam
chair
commissioner
available.
My
understanding
is
that
the
period
of
significance
for
the
national
register
nomination,
as
opposed
to
the
local
nomination,
was
different
due
the
due
to
the
National
register's
50-year
rule
where
properties,
unless
they
have
exceptional
importance,
typically
have
to
have
at
least
50
years
between
the
time
they've
been
designated
and
the
time
that
their
period
of
significance
ends.
The
City
of
Minneapolis
has
no
such
standards,
so
our
period
of
significance
ended
in
1996
for
this
particular
property,
which
was
the
year
during
which
the
Sumner
Library
was
designated
locally.
H
At
the
same
time,
I
think
it's
safe
to
say
too
that,
generally
speaking
across
our
historic
districts,
composite
asphalt,
shingles,
whether
architectural
or
three
tab
are
generally
viewed
as
compatible
to
you
know
in
terms
of
the
the
property's
historic
character
when
historic
materials
like
wood,
shake
or
shingles
or
slate
have
been
lost,
but
those
determinations
are
made
in
a
case-by-case
basis.
At
the
time,
designations
occur
and
integrity
is
analyzed
and.
G
Dr
smelly
is
that
usually
because
the
sleep
would
cost
so
much
more
or
it
does,
is
the
sensibility
of
staff
that
the
asphalt
shingles
really
do
have
a
similar
enough
visual
integrity.
H
K
Forgive
me
John
I
thought
I'd
jump
in
here
to
answer
commissioner
Melbourne's
question
and
chair
Howard
generally
in
the
approach
of
the
standards
to
this
particular
situation,
which
is
quite
common.
The
approach
is,
generally,
the
replacement
can
be
what's
there
existing
or
what
was
there
historically,
if
we
have
evidence
of
what
was
there
historically.
D
K
G
A
C
Hi,
my
name
is
Chris
Labs
I'm,
a
project
architect
with
LLC
Architects,
which
is
located
at
1401
Glenwood
Avenue
in
Minneapolis
and
oh
yeah.
C
And
we
would
like
to
thank
Dr
Smalley
for
presenting
on
half
of
Aaron
and
in
general,
we
are
happy
to
agree
to
all
of
the
conditions
that
were
laid
out
in
the
staff
Report,
with
the
exception
to
the
roofing
and
there's
a
couple
of
reasons
that
we
have
looked
at
at
this
roof
for
one.
The
roof
itself
dates
the
the
one
that's
physically
there
back
to
2004
and
it
a
very
prematurely
failed,
and
so
we're
not
sure
if
it's
just
because
of
the
installation.
C
But
additionally,
we
feel
the
fact
that
the
building
was
originally
slate.
We
would
like
to
move
to
something
that
potentially
better
represents
what
was
once
there,
rather
than
something
that
was
replaced
in
the
1970s,
the
building
itself.
The
previous
renovation
was
a
very
good
Steward,
We
Believe
of
the
historic
fabric
that
was
there
but
Renovations
before
that
have
removed
a
lot
of
it.
So
there
have
been
attempts
over
time
to
to
bring
back
some
of
that
original
character.
C
The
fact
of
the
matter
is
a
slate
roof
itself:
well
beautiful,
there's,
different
snow
loads
and
the
the
price
and
some
of
our
early
looks
looking
at
some
RS
means
numbers
is
about
four
times
the
cost
of
our
proposed
option
and
a
asphalt
shingle
is
about.
It
would
be
about
one-fifth,
the
cost
of
a
slate
roof,
so
it's
just
significant
cost
that
we
would
incur.
C
The
other
reason
that
we
looked
at
this
was
this
building
we're
pursuing
a
Minnesota,
B3
buildings,
benchmarks
and
Beyond,
and
in
a
historic
building,
we're
under
a
lot
of
challenges
to
find
ways
to
reduce
energy
within
the
building.
We're
looking
at
about
one-fifth
energy
use
of
a
2003
building.
C
This
is
a
1915
building,
so
we
don't
even
have
2003
levels
of
insulation
to
be
able
to
play
with
the
B3
benchmarks.
Also,
look
a
lot
at
some,
whether
you're
using
local
materials,
whether
you're
using
materials
that
are
recyclable.
So
the
fact
of
the
matter
is
the
asphalt
roof
would
be
a
petroleum
product.
It's
minimally
recyclable
it
lasts
about
half
to
a
quarter
is
long
depending
on
whether
you
believe
reality
or
some
of
their
marketing.
On
the
the
roof,
so
we're
finding
that
you
know
it
replaces
much
more
quickly
over
time.
C
This
product
versus
every
other
sort
of
manufactured
slate
product
is
the
only
one
that's
locally
produced
which
allows
us
to
fit
within
the
500
mile
radius
that
they're
looking
for
in
sort
of
environmentally
preferred
materials.
And
finally,
the
the
product
itself
is
effective
in
Urban
heat
island
mitigation.
C
So
a
traditional
asphalt
roof
is
a
major
component
in
that
and
the
Hennepin
County's
climate
action
that
puts
this
as
one
of
the
most
vulnerable
areas,
in
the
entire
County
and
in
the
City
of
Minneapolis,
and
on
top
of
that,
this
building
is
what
they
call
a
cooling
center,
so
a
place
where
they're
telling
people
to
come
because
of
their
home,
potentially
not
being
at
the
proper
temperature
and
so
for
potential
Health
needs
one
thing:
as
we
looked
at
the
staff
article,
our
staff
recommendations
that
we
wanted
to
propose
as
one
potential
change
would
be,
they
do
make
one
that
comes
in
a
slate
look.
C
C
So
this
is
a
photo
of
the
asphalt
shingle.
Look
that
they
produce,
and
this
is
the
Slate
look.
C
It's
the
exact
same
color,
it's
the
exact
same
material,
the
only
difference
being
that
it
doesn't
have
the
sand,
because
it's
not
mimicking
an
asphalt's
roof,
and
one
thing
we
also
like
about
it
is:
if
you
look
at
the
historic
imagery
of
the
building,
you
get
these
shadow
lines
where
each
of
the
individual
you
know
rows
of
slate
would
be
that
you're
not
going
to
get
in
an
asphalt
roof,
but
you
will,
in
this
and
obviously
you're,
not
looking
at
it
from
this
close
you're
looking
at
it
from
you
know,
a
much
further
distance,
so
you
start
to
see
those
lines
together.
C
And
and
one
other
just
to
to
reach
the
point
about
the
the
sprinkler
system,
our
goal
is
to
have
it
within
one
foot
of
the
plaster
any
more
than
that,
and
we
would
have
to
have
extensions
onto
it.
So
it
just
expands
how
visible
that
system
is
in
the
space.
So
we
want
to
keep
it
as
close
to
the
ceiling
as
possible.
A
G
C
So
our
intent
is
to
keep
it
within
one
foot
of
the
plaster,
so
essentially
right
under
and
I
can't
remember
now
we
do
have
a
detail
in
our
set.
That
I
believe
was
submitted
on
a
455
that
shows
our
intent
to
keep
it
essentially
directly
under
the
the
the
truss,
the
the
top
chord
of
the
trust
So
within
it,
and
our
intent
is
to
to
paint
it
the
same
color
as
the
plaster
so
that
it
it
disappears
as
much
as
it
possibly
can.
C
G
A
Seeing
none,
let's
see
where
I'm
in
my
script,
okay,.
G
Chair
Howard,
so
I
would
be
more
in
well.
It
was
interesting
because
I
would
have
loved
to
have
had
them
go
back
to
the
Slate,
because
it
would
just
be
what
was
originally
on
there.
This
is
what
they.
What
they
brought
is
a
much
nicer
visual
than
what
was
handed
out
and
originally
proposed.
So
I
would
feel
more
comfortable
with
this
as
a
substitution,
but
I,
don't
I,
guess
I'm
curious
for
the
other
Commissioners.
If
there
is
a
strong
concern
about
having
metal
as
an
actual
material.
J
Thank
you,
chair
Howard
I,
agree
that,
in
looking
through
the
product
data
that
was
in
our
report,
I
saw
subtle
differences
in
the
images
of
the
metal
roof
that
had
me
kind
of
concerned,
because
I
think
that
it
does
depend
a
little
on
the
option
and
I
really
appreciate
that
the
team
brought
in
that
second
sample,
because
I
I
do
like
the
the
Slate
stamp
pattern
and
the
stone
color
in
the
images.
E
J
Seems
to
me
to
be
a
better
replication
of
the
Slate
I.
Do
appreciate
the
argument
about
the
materiality
from
a
sustainability
standpoint
and
I.
I
really
think
that
our
guidelines
in
this
regard
can
be
a
little
outdated.
Obviously,
our
intent
would
be
to
restore
historic
material
whenever
that
is
kind
of
feasible
for
a
lot
of
reasons.
Slate
in
our
climate
is
kind
of
a
difficult
roofing
material
to
deal
with,
not
to
mention
the
cost.
Concerns
I
personally
feel
that
a
metal
roof
would
be
an
acceptable
replacement
material
both
from
a
sustainability
standpoint.
J
The
original
slate
is
gone.
I
don't
feel
like
the
asphalt
shingles
are
a
great
replication
of
a
historic
material
and
I,
don't
feel
like
they're,
necessarily
the
best
fit
from
a
historic
character
of
the
building.
So
my
opinion
is
that
those
the
the
material
proposed
would
be
acceptable
to
me,
but
I
would
love
to
hear
more
opinions
from
the
rest
of
the
commission.
A
Thanks
Vice
chair
assembled
I'm
going
to
be
contrary
here,
because
I've
been
studying
alternative
materials
for
the
last
several
months.
I
I
have
concerns
about
the
metal
and
the
reason
why
I
asked
about
the
asphalt
is
because
that
asphalt
did
go
up
during
the
period
of
significance,
and
so
the
use
of
asphalt
is
a
historic
character.
Defining
feature
of
this
property,
as
it
was
designated
locally.
A
The
the
Secretary
of
the
Interior
looks
to
the
appearance
of
the
of
the
material
I
completely
appreciate
the
the
green
effort
that
you're
looking
for
here,
though,
and
I
I,
understand
all
of
the
the
points
you
laid
out
related
to
that
I
would
say
that
if
we
were
to
allow
this
to
go
forward,
I
would
think
that
we
would
want
to
put
something
possibly
in
the
condition
to
say
that,
in
light
of
various
green
efforts,
we
would
approve
this
material.
A
Although
it
may
not
be
the
best
material
for
the
job
or
something
like
that
anyway,
those
are
my
thoughts.
I've
been
kind
of
going
back
and
forth
on
this,
because
I
do
appreciate
the
the
the
greenness
of
it
I've
Just
Seen
A
lot
of
these
in
in
stalled,
and
they
don't
look
like
slate
at
all,
in
my
opinion,
so
we'd
be
introducing
a
completely
new
alternative
material.
A
That,
in
my
opinion,
does
not
meet
the
appearance
of
slate,
which
is
a
requirement
so
in
the
end,
I
really
do
agree
with
staff's
recommendation
on
this
one.
F
I
tend
to
agree
with
chair
Howard,
not
saying
that
this
roof
in
the
photo
doesn't
look
nice,
but
it
doesn't
strike
me
initially
as
being
slate
and
I.
Think
that's
my
struggle
with
it
is
like
the
first
thing
that
stands
out
to
me
is
that
it's
still
in
imitation
material
I,
really
do
appreciate
your
B3
work
and
trying
to
find
a
sustainable
solution
for
this.
So
I
I
tend
to
have
some
guilt
even
saying
that
I
am
not
really
in
favor
of
it,
but
I'm
struggling
with
that.
L
Thank
you,
chair,
Howard
I
am
very
sympathetic
to
the
green
qualities
of
the
replacement,
material
and
I
agree
that
I
think
the
Slate
is
more
attractive
than
the
pretend
asphalt,
albeit
maybe
it
doesn't
look
exactly
like
sleep,
but
perhaps
from
50
or
100
feet
away.
That
wouldn't
be
as
obvious
I'd
note,
though,
that
I
assume
this
roof
is
also
going
over
the
2004
Edition,
which
presumably
did
not
ever
have
slate
on
it
and
that's
outside
the
period
of
significance.
So
maybe
that
doesn't
matter
but.
J
I
will
make
a
motion.
I
would
motion
that
we
approve
the
certificate
of
appropriateness,
editing,
condition
number
one,
as
listed
in
the
agenda
actually
I'll
just
say:
striking
condition:
number
one
and
replacing
it
with
the
language.
J
A
J
E
G
A
E
Yourself
on
this
matter,
and
so
I
will
leave
the
meeting
and
not
participate
in
the
decision.
A
H
The
subject
property
consists
of
three
tax
Parcels
situated
at
the
southeast
corner
of
interstate
highways,
94
and
394..
The
Basilica
of
St
Mary
is
a
Roman
Catholic
Church
significant
for
its
classical
Revival
and
Baroque
Revival
architecture
and
its
association
with
the
religious
efforts
of
the
Catholic
Church
administered
by
Archbishop
John
Ireland.
H
H
H
They're
also
proposing
45
new
wall
signs,
and
here
you
see
a
typical
example,
also
made
of
painted
aluminum
with
push
through
acrylic
letters
or
applied
vinyl
graphics,
they're,
proposing
to
replace
one
existing
wall
sign
and
install
a
set
of
banners
18
that
would
be
18
inches
by
36
inches
maximum
and
installed
on
light
posts
around
the
church.
Campus
itself,
they're
also
proposing
one
Monument
sign
with
two
Dynamic
signed
panels
on
either
side
of
it.
H
The
proposal
meets
the
historic
preservation,
the
Heritage
preservation
regulations,
certificate
of
appropriateness,
findings,
with
one
exception,
notably
two
Dynamic
sign
panels
again
on
both
faces
of
this
Monument
sign
are
proposed
to
replace
the
existing
changeable
copy
sign
panels
of
the
same
size,
they'll
both
be
60
by
45
inches,
and
you
can
see
the
existing
manual
changeable
copy
sign
panel
on
the
left
in
this
image,
and
this
is
that
this
will
be
replaced
in
the
existing
stone
monument
sign,
which
is
proposed
to
be
raised
in
height
by
two
feet,
to
seven
feet
total,
and
this
sits
along
Hennepin
Avenue,
the
applicant
States
in
their
application
that
the
digital
display
panels
will
improve
the
sign's
visibility,
make
them
easier
to
update
and
attract
more
visitors
to
The
Basilica
through
publication
of
Outreach,
religious
and
cultural
programming.
H
Information.
A
specification
sheet
for
the
proposed
Dynamic
panels
indicates
their
10
millimeter
pixel
pitch
will
permit
them
to
display
vibrant
images,
though
it's
not
the
resolution
of
ultra
high
definition.
Televisions
standard
in
today's
media
Market,
whose
typical
pixel
pitch
is
well
below
one
millimeter.
H
H
H
Again,
it's
worthwhile
to
note
that
the
existing
and
proposed
Dynamic
sign
panels
will
remain
the
same
size
as
the
existing
changeable
copy
sign
panel
60
inches
by
45
inches,
and
the
applicant
has
also
identified
prominent
nearby
churches
roughly
similar
in
Era
and
scale
with
dynamic
or
changeable
copy.
Dynamic
sign
panels
that
you
see
here
on
the
slide
before
you.
H
For
these
reasons,
staff
recommends
the
Heritage
preservation.
Commission
approve
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
install
50
59
signs,
except
for
the
dynamic
sign
those
two
panels
on
either
side
of
the
monument
sign
at
the
Basilica
of
St
Mary,
an
individual
Historic,
Landmark
I'm
available
for
any
questions
you
may
have,
and
the
applicant
is
here
and
would
like
to
make
a
presentation
as
well.
A
M
Okay,
here
you
go,
apologies!
Thank
you
for
bearing
with
us.
My
name
is
Laura
Fouche
with
HDA,
and
my
address
is
2058
Saint
Anthony
Parkway
in
Minneapolis
and
I
have
with
me
today,
Ellen
Odegaard
from
HJ,
who
is
the
graphic
designer
who
worked
on
the
signs
and
also
made
to
Sarah
from
the
Basilica
of
Saint
Mary,
who
worked
with
us
on
the
design
of
the
signs
and
may
is
going
to
speak
a
little
bit
first
about
the
need
for
the
signage
package
overall.
So
thank
you.
I
Good
evening,
I'm
maida
Sayre
I
live
at
413
of
Walker
Drive
in
Badness
Heights,
as
my
home
address,
the
Basilica
address
is
1600
Hennepin
Avenue.
Thank
you
to
the
commission
for
having
us
here
this
evening
and
thank
you,
Dr
Smalley,
for
recommending
the
approvals
for
the
signage.
Improving
the
signage
at
the
Basilica
has
been
a
goal
for
our
campus
for
many
years,
and
the
improved
signage
will
really
help
with
wayfinding
and
accessibility,
and
we
really
want
to
invite
and
welcome
the
community
into
the
Basilica.
I
The
monument
sign
at
the
front
of
the
Basilica
is
key
for
awareness
and
to
help
visitors
locate
the
building,
and
we
want
to
thank
you
for
not
opposing
the
height
of
the
sign.
This
will
really
help
with
visibility,
because
the
snow
accumulates
in
front
of
it,
and
so
that
will
really
help
and
we
understand
the
recommendation
for
the
static
sign
and
not
the
dynamic
sign,
and
just
a
couple
points
to
share
about
that.
I
The
digital
sign
would
allow
us
to
update
the
information
without
having
to
install
the
new
inserts,
which
is
the
process
that
we
normally
do
with
our
maintenance
staff.
We
have
the
inserts
printed
and
then
they
have
to
go
out
and
and
put
them
in.
So
we
do
this
seasonally
and
it
is
a
bit
of
a
costly
cumbersome
process
and
the
digital
sign
would
improve
the
visibility
for
our
church
hours
and
the
mass
schedules
within
the
community.
I
The
Basilica
is
currently
experience
a
little
bit
of
a
decline
in
attendance
and
visitors
and
part
of
the
signage
opportunity
is
to
let
people
know
that
the
church
is
open
is
available
for
visitors.
So
this
would
assist
with
that
as
well,
and
we
just
want
to
ensure
that
we
would
be
following
the
digital
signage
guidelines
and
work
with
our
partners
at
hga
to
adhere
to
all
the
specifications
of
the
signage.
So
thank
you
again
and
we
look
forward
to
the
next
steps
for
improving
the
signage.
M
So
we
won't
go
through
the
whole
presentation
packet,
which
you
already
have.
We
did
put
together
a
few,
a
few
additional
images
that
I'm
going
to
to
scroll
to
related
to
the
monument
sign
that
we
wanted
to
discuss
a
little
bit.
M
So
here's
the
existing
sign-
and
one
other
thing
to
note-
is
that
it's
actually
fairly
difficult
to
read
the
changeable
copy
portion
from
the
street.
It's
really
much
more
legible
to
pedestrians
at
the
scale
that
it
is
and
generally
the
context
of
the
signs
is
something
that
we
wanted
to
take
into
consideration.
M
So
we
understand
staff's
concerns
and
that
it
doesn't
specifically
meet
the
guidelines,
but
some
of
the
things
that
were
noted,
particularly
the
standards
of
setting
or
not
the
standards,
I'm.
Sorry,
the
Integrity
two
of
the
seven
Integrity
standards
of
setting
and
feeling
that
these
are
impacted.
M
We
agreed
to
a
certain
extent,
but
wanted
to
kind
of
go
over
how
the
setting
and
feeling
of
the
site
has
been
impacted
over
time
by
various
modifications
and
then
talk
just
a
little
bit
related
to
the
scale
of
the
sign
in
relationship
to
the
campus
and
the
Basilica
also
point
out
that
you
know.
Obviously,
the
signage
is
not
attached
to
the
building.
M
It's
set
quite
a
ways
away
from
the
building,
and
also
that
it
is
something
that's
reversible
and
the
sign
itself.
The
monument
sign
is
not
historic.
M
So,
just
to
point
out,
you
probably
noticed
you
can
barely
see
it.
It's
right
here
in
front
of
the
Basilica
from
when
you're
coming
on,
Hennepin
heading
east
and,
if
you're
heading
west
on
a
Hennepin.
It's
right
here
so
a
little
bit
about
the
context
of
the
church.
So
when
it
was
built
constructed
in
1916,
here's
here's
what
it
looked
like.
M
Obviously,
a
little
bit
different
setting
than
today
by
1925
the
streets
had
been
changed
a
little
bit.
There's
this
kind
of
symmetrical
drive
that
mirrors
hennepin's
the
angle
of
Hennepin.
Here
the
school
is
present
but
and
the
church,
but
nothing
none
of
the
other
buildings
are
present.
Yet
this
is
the
dedication
of
the
father
Hennepin
statue
in
1930,
and
you
can
see
the
residential
character
of
the
neighborhood
that
surrounds
it,
which
changed
drastically.
M
M
We've
got
more
businesses
on
the
east
side
and
then
obviously
the
freeway
had
a
huge
impact
on
the
setting
and
feeling
of
the
site,
and
we
kind
of
take
those
things
for
granted
at
this
point
I
feel
like,
and
here
it
is
in
1991,
which
is
looking
a
little
bit
more
like
it
does
today
and
and
kind
of
just
the
scale
of
things.
M
It's
not
really.
The
intention
of
the
Basilica
I
understand
the
concern
that
you
can't
really
police,
what's
going
to
happen
with
the
sign,
but
it's
not
their
intention
to
do
some.
You
know
rapid
changes
and
have
a
lot
of
flashy
images,
and
it's
really
more
to
advertise
mass
times
to
indicate
that
the
Basilica
is
open
to
visitors
which,
whenever
I'm
on
site
I
frequently
have
people
come
up
to
me
and
ask:
is
the
church
open?
M
Can
I
go
in
those
kinds
of
things
and
then
obviously
to
advertise
concerts
and
things
like
that
which
you
just
can't
get
out
there?
You
know
on
a
very
regular
basis,
to
update
the
sign
and
and
put
those
kinds
of
things
on
it.
So
then
I
just
wanted
to
talk
about
these
other
examples
that
while
I
realize
they're
not
designated
by
the
city,
one
of
them
Westminster
Presbyterian,
is
on
the
national
register.
It
didn't
go
through
any
design
review.
M
Of
course,
as
far
as
the
probably
the
sign
well
I
shouldn't
say,
of
course,
maybe
it
went
through
shippo
review,
I'm,
not
sure
when
they
did
their
modifications,
but
then
also
Saint,
Marks
and
Hennepin.
Avenue
United
methodists
have
recently
been
determined
eligible
for
the
register,
based
on
a
section
106
review
that
was
done
as
part
of
a
rapid
transit
project
in
the
area.
Central
Avenue,
Lutheran,
I,
haven't
found
anything
on
that
as
far
as
historic
significance,
but
I
just
wanted
to
kind
of
focus
on
two
of
these.
M
That
I
think
have
have
integrated
the
signage
fairly
successfully,
which
include
Hennepin,
Avenue,
United,
Methodist
and
again
I.
Think
in
this
image
on
the
left
that
the
scale
of
it,
you
can
see
it
against
the
context
of
the
building,
and
this
is
headed,
basically
well
kind
of
south
on
Hennepin
that
you
know,
I
I,
don't
know
it's
I
know
this
gets
really
subjective
with
setting
and
feeling.
But
to
me
this
really
doesn't
impact
it
significantly.
M
I
know
that
digital
signs,
weren't,
obviously
During
the
period
of
significance
for
the
building,
but
again
I
think
just
in
the
context
and
the
scale
of
things
that
it's
fairly
a
minimal
change
and
something
that
obviously
other
churches
have
felt
they
needed
to
do
to
reach
out
to
the
community
and
draw
people
in
and
then
also
I
think
that
Westminster
Presbyterian
really
did
a
successful
job
of
this,
and
it's
even
it.
M
It
just
felt
like
another,
you
know
kind
of
piece
of
Street
Furniture
in
this
case,
so
coming
back
to
the
Basilica,
then
just
a
couple
more
context
photos
this
one
a
little
bit
closer,
showing
the
banner
signs
as
well.
It
just
gives
you
an
idea
again
of
the
scale
at
a
little
bit
closer
proximity.
M
A
A
Seeing
none
I'll
close
the
public
hearing
Commissioners,
let's
discuss,
we
just
had
another
Dynamic
sign,
but
that
was
a
theater
I
guess
my
my
initial
thought
was
I.
You
know
for
a
theater.
It
makes
sense
if
this
was
on
the
church.
I
would
be
very
concerned,
but
this
is
a
modern
sign.
I
could
go
either
way
in
it.
G
Madam
chair,
if
we
were
to
strike,
if
we
were
to
strike
the
first
condition,
would
we
need
to
substitute
something
for
that,
or
is
that
as
easy
as
just
striking,
that
condition.
G
Yes,
I
I
have
no
problem
striking
it
I
recognize
we.
The
cped
just,
did
pass
signage
regulation,
new
signage
regulations,
but
it
doesn't
seem
like
because
of
the
context.
This
is
in
that
this
is
going
to
do
to
any
way
negatively
change
the
sense
of
or
the
perception
of,
the
historical
value
of
either
the
building
or
the
landscape.
D
I
tend
to
agree
with
for
sure
problem,
I
guess.
My
question
is
it's
a
modern
sign
and
it's
not
on
the
building
itself.
It
doesn't.
Even
it
was
added,
obviously
outside
of
the
period
of
significance,
I'm
assuming
as
well
that
signs
so
I'm
not
having
an
issue
with
it
with
it,
but
I'd
love
to
know
what
other
people
are.
Thinking
aside
from
the
two
of
us.
A
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Nystrom
I
seem
to
recall.
There
was
also
did
we
put
light
level
conditions
on
that
other
Dynamic
side.
Just
something
to
think
about.
Commissioner.
L
Thank
you,
chair,
Howard,
I'm,
just
thinking
about
the
signage
guidelines
that
we
all
agreed
to
yep
a
couple
weeks
ago,
and
we
could
potentially
write
a
condition
to
stop
animation
and
to
set
light
levels.
But,
as
we
noted
in
the
previous
case,
there's
no
enforcement
possibility
for
those.
So
it's
sort
of
meaningless
to
do
so.
J
J
I
do
continue
to
believe
that
our
design
guidelines
and
they're
called
guidelines
for
a
reason
are,
are
well
written
and
I
think
to
have
in
there.
The
dynamic
assigns
aren't
appropriate
does
allow
us
the
ability
to
look
at
them
on
a
case-by-case
basis,
which
I
think
is
very
important,
because
if
we
were
putting
a
big
10
foot
by
20
foot,
Dynamic
sign
across
the
front
of
the
Basilica
I
think
all
of
us
would
want
to
have
an
ability
to
provide
some
feedback
on
that
scenario.
J
J
Also
to
the
point
of
the
one
that
we
recently
approved,
and
we
did
at
that
point-
recommend
that
the
light
levels
match
the
existing
condition,
which
I
think
was
in
light
of
the
fact
that
that
was
a
theater
with
a
lighted
sign
that
exists
that
existed
I,
think
that
was
a
different
condition.
I'm
I'm
not
apt
to
put
similar
kind
of
regulation
on
this
sign,
just
because
I
know
it's
hard
to
enforce,
especially
in
a
condition
where
we
don't
have
an
existing
kind
of
condition
to
try
and
match.
A
You
for
sharing
those
other
thoughts,
or
would
someone
like
to
make
a
motion.
Commissioner
Mobile.
G
I'll
make
a
motion
before
I
make
a
motion,
though
I
would
like
to
say
that
I
think
the
signage
package
is
very
handsomely
done.
So
thank
you.
So
I'd
like
to
make
a
motion
that
the
commission
accepts
accepts
the
recommended
motion.
The
Heritage
reservation
commission
approves
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
install
59
signs,
one
of
which
is
a
dynamic
sign
at
the
silk
St
Mary,
an
individual
Historic
Landmark,
subject
to
the
following
conditions,
and
that
we
strike
condition
one
and
we
keep
conditions.
Two
and
three.
B
J
G
L
K
Thank
you,
chair
Howard,
Andrea,
Burke
supervisor
for
the
historic
preservation
team
in
c-pad.
I
have
a
few
announcements.
The
July
25th
HPC
meeting
has
been
canceled.
Our
next
meeting
will
be
on
August
8th,
the
Washburn
Fair
Oaks
design
guidelines
are
up
for
public
comment
on
the
city's
website
until
July
30th,
so
we
are
receiving
those
at
the
moment
and
then
we'll
collect
those
comments
following
and
staff
will
decide
how
to
process
them.
Whether
or
not
there
are
any
additional
changes
we
may
make
to
the
design
guidelines.
K
All
of
this
will
happen
in
advance
of
bringing
it
before
you.
As
a
discussion
item.
We
did
receive
two
appeals
from
the
June
20th
HPC
meeting
for
the
demolition
of
5005
Lindell
Avenue
South,
as
well
as
for
the
signage
at
the
Uptown
Theater.
So
those
will
be
going
to
the
biz
committee
on
July
25th
and
then
the
last
announcement
is
with
our
cancellation
of
the
July
25th
meeting.
This
will
be
commissioner
Dreyer's
last
meeting.
K
L
Thank
you
and
yeah,
some
of
you,
but
probably
not
most
of
you,
know
that
I'm
moving
to
Virginia
in
August,
so
a
little
bit
unexpectedly,
but
I've
really
enjoyed
working
with
all
of
you
for
this
year
and
hoping
to
continue
similar
work
out
east.
So
thank
you.
A
Thank
you,
commissioner.
I'm
really
happy
to
have.
E
A
A
Other
staff,
announcements
or
commission
announcements,
one
of
the
other,
no
okay,
with
that
we've
completed
all
items
on
the
agenda
for
this
meeting,
I'll
ask
members
and
staff
one
more
time
if
there
are
any
other
matters
to
come
before
the
meeting
there
being
no
other
business
to
come
before
the
meeting
and
without
objection,
I
will
declare
the
meeting
adjourned.
The
next
regular
meeting
of
the
Heritage
preservation
commission
is
August,
8th
2023..