►
From YouTube: August 10, 2023 Zoning Board of Adjustment
Description
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A
D
A
C
A
F
A
A
G
Chair
softly
members
of
the
board,
there
is
one
communication.
This
evening
there
has
been
appeal:
the
board's
decision,
denying
the
variances
for
2110
4th
Street
Northeast,
which
was
for
maximum
floor
area
ratio
and
graduate
that
will
be
going
here
soon
to
the
business
inspections,
housing
and
zoning
committee.
I
believe
it
will
occur
on
the
22nd
I
believe.
A
All
right
that
brings
us
to
our
public
hearing
I'll
open
the
public
hearing
at
this
time,
I'll
remind
everyone
in
the
in
the
chamber
board
and
audience
to
make
sure
your
cell
phones
and
any
other
devices
are
turned
to
offer
in
the
silent
way.
So
we
don't
hear
them
go
off
if
you're
here
to
speak
during
the
public
hearing,
please
sign
up
on
the
table
up.
A
A
H
Good
afternoon
Vice
chair
softly
members
of
the
board.
This
is
item
number
five,
a
determination
of
the
zoning
administrator
for
offense.
The
full
determination
is
a
determination
of
the
zoning
administrator
that
the
fence
side,
where
the
fencing
material
only
is
visible,
constitutes
the
finished
side
of
the
fence
and
the
fence
side
that
contains
horizontal
and
vertical
fence
supports
and
in-ground
fence
posts
constitutes
The
Unfinished
side
of
the
fence.
H
So
the
subject
site
is
4221
Ewing,
Avenue
South.
This
is
a
6096
square
foot
interior
lot.
There
is
an
existing
single
family
dwelling
on
the
property
that
was
constructed
in
2007
with
an
attached
garage.
The
property
is
zoned,
un1,
Urban,
neighborhood,
1,
bf1
interior,
one
built
form
overlay
district
and
the
property
is
also
located
within
the
Shoreland
overlay
District.
These
surrounding
neighborhood
is
owned.
Un1
Urban,
neighborhood,
1
and
un2
urban
neighborhood
2
surrounding
uses
are
primarily
single
family
and
two
family
dwellings.
H
Following
the
citation
the
homeowner
reached
out
to
the
city,
with
the
intent
of
applying
for
variances
in
order
to
maintain
the
fence
that
has
exist
today,
section
535-430,
fence,
design
of
the
Minneapolis
code
of
ordinances
is
not
one
of
the
provisions
that
can
be
varied
in
code.
So
it
does
require
an
appeal
of
a
determination
of
a
zoning
administrator.
H
The
appellant
filed
an
appeal.
The
decision
regarding
the
intent
of
the
word
finished,
which,
within
the
zoning
code,
provision
for
fence
design
requiring
that
fences
must
be
erected
in
a
manner
where
the
finished
side
or
sides
of
the
fence
must
face
adjacent
property
or
public
right-of-way.
H
H
The
second
finding
is
for
the
purpose
of
administrating
the
zoning
ordinance
that
we
use
common
usage,
in
other
words,
that
we
refer
to
in
dictionary
definition
of
a
term.
So
our
zoning
code
does
not
define
the
words
finished.
H
So
we
refer
to
the
Merriam-Webster
Dictionary
definition
for
the
word
finished,
which
reads
brought
to
a
completed
State
and
provided
with
a
finish
having
a
final
treatment
or
coding
on
the
surface
and
staff
believes
that
this
clearly
indicates
that
code
is
written
in
such
a
way
as
to
require
that
the
face
or
the
finished
side
of
a
fence
should
project
outwards
and
that
the
back
or
the
unfinished
side
of
the
fence
should
face
the
interior
of
a
lot
towards
the
property
of
his
home.
H
The
third
finding
is
that
the
intent
of
fence
code
is
to
promote
public
health,
safety
and
Welfare,
and
also
to
encourage
an
aesthetic
environment.
The
requirement
that
posts
and
supporting
members
are
erected
in
a
manner
so
as
not
to
face
an
adjacent
property
is
considered
an
aesthetic
that
is
supportable
for
an
aesthetic
environment
throughout
the
city.
H
Are
that
we
would
agree
with
stats
perspective
that
the
finished
side
of
the
fence
in
this
case
is
facing
Inward
and
at
the
unfinished
side
of
the
fence,
is
facing
outwards
towards
the
property
lines
and
then
the
Neighbors
in
this
case,
so
I
will
stand
for
questions
and
then
the
pallet
is
here
tonight
to
present
as
well.
I
A
A
Please
wait
until
you
approach
the
microphone,
so
we
can
record
everything
my.
D
Name
is
Charles
McCoy.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
present
I
do
have
handouts
of
our
concerned,
and
you
probably
have
seen
this,
including
a
picture
which
I
think
demonstrates
very
clearly.
D
The
two
fences
and
the
one
fence
is
our
fence,
which
is
built
according
to
code
for
and
we
only
Built
the
fence
in
reaction
to
what
we
saw
they
were
doing
so.
One
of
the
questions
that
is
raised
is
that
well,
after
all,
they
have
a
fence
up.
So
can't
we
do
what
we
want
and
I
would
say
we
saw
what
you
were
doing
so
we
built
a
fence,
so
we
wouldn't
have
to
look
at
it.
We
haven't
been
completely
successful,
but
that's
why
that
fence
was
there.
D
And
then
the
second
thing
is
just
because
we
have
a
fence,
that's
not
a
reason
to
allow
them
not
to
follow
the
code
and
I,
don't
really
have
any
more
to
say,
I'm,
not
an
architect.
Both
of
our
neighbors
are
architects.
D
We
have
had
to
go
through
a
steep
learning
curve
and
to
get
legal
support
to
understand
what
our
rights
were
and
how
to
protect
the
interests
of
not
only
of
ourselves
but
of
our
neighborhood,
and
this
is
the
best
we
can
do
so.
That's
all
I
have
to
say
this
is
my
wife,
Beverly
she's
here
with
me,
and
thank
you
for
listening.
J
J
J
J
I
think
Equitable.
Equitable
enforcement
by
the
city
is
important,
because
this
helps
Safeguard
our
community's
character
and
safety
for
all
residents.
As
such
I
would
like
to
see
the
city
uphold.
The
denial
and
work
with
the
residents
at
42.21
to
bring
the
fencer
screens
in
question
OCTA
code.
Thank
you.
A
H
I
I
Name
address
for
the
record
test:
that's
perfect!
Let's
see,
can
we
make
that
full
screen
too
I'm
very
needy,
apparently
all
right,
great
hi,
I'm,
Jeffrey,
Warner
and
I
live
at
the
subject
property
for
a
point
of
clarification.
Lynn.
Do
you
live
on
Ewing
or
do
you
live
on
anyway,
great
to
the
north
right.
I
You
pardon
I
was
just
I
was
just
trying
to
clarify
because
I
you
know
I'm
just
trying
to
get
caught
up
with
sort
of
who
we're
addressing
here.
What
you're
seeing
here.
So
let
me
give
some
context
to
sort
of
the
right.
The
whole
project
is
as
a
whole
sort
of
why
we
would
build
fences
at
all
what
our
sort
of
goals
are
in
sort
of
moving
into
this
house.
What
four
years
ago
now,
what
you're
seeing
here
is
the
this
does
not
have
the
before
pictures.
I
But
what
you're
seeing
here
is
is
our
house,
the
brown
in
the
3D
rendering
represents
weathering
steel
with
a
custom,
a
custom
break
and
it
weathers
organically,
and
the
black
material
represents
a
vertical
salvaged,
cedar,
siding
which
has
been
stained
with
pine
tar
from
the
original
siding.
And
so
when
we
moved
in
to
upgrade
the
house
and
to
make
it
more
energy
efficient,
more
sustainable,
we
increase
the
level
of
insulation
in
our
house,
Salvage
the
materials
we
could
from
the
house
and
replaced
fire
cement
with
the
weathering
steel.
I
We
covered
the
existing
masonry
unit
wall,
which
we
found
to
be
fairly
hideous
in
the
front
of
the
house
and
what
you're
seeing
here
and
what
undoubtedly
you'll
hear
in
the
next
variants,
which
we
were
required
to
apply
for,
is
sort
of
some
of
the
some
of
the
issues
regarding
that,
however,
be
it
may
what
our
goal
was
is
to
in
renovating
and
and
treating
the
landscape
that
had
been
neglected
for
decades.
I
We
we
sought
to
bring
the
materials
from
the
house
into
the
landscape
so
that
it
basically
had
a
very
organic
and
I.
Don't
know
we
were
designing
the
landscape
in
the
house
to
work
together,
which
I
think
is
probably
an
admirable
thing
for
for
most
projects
to
to
to
do.
However,
since
most
projects
also
do
not
contain
weathering
Steel
in
a
a
corrugated,
a
sort
of
a
custom
corrugated
material.
I
I
How
are
we
going
to
make
this
fence
basically
stand
up
number
one
and
then
basically
sort
of
I
don't
know
embrace
the
materials
in
the
house,
and
so
what
you
are
seeing
is
these
in
in
this
case,
the
the
back
side
or
the
second
side
of
the
fence
in
the
middle
is
the
sort
of
the
condition
of
the
fence
at
the
time
of
the
complaint
and
then
after
working
with
the
city
I
on
the
right
hand,
side
you're,
seeing
the
materials
after
they've
been
treated
with
an
oxidizing
paint
which
is
actually
filled
with
real
iron
filings
and
they
weather,
naturally,
just
with
the
other.
I
The
other
side
of
the
fence
which
you've
seen
Down
Below,
is
a
neighbor's
just
down
the
streets
fence,
which
you
know
clearly
shows
horizontal
members
and
Top
members
and
then
post
exposed
okay,
you'll
see.
If
you
look
carefully,
the
the
these
supports
are
made
out
of
galvanized
steel
they're.
You
know
very
robust.
I
They
are
set
within
the
thickness
of
this
of
the
fans
and
in
fact,
after
being
oxidized
with
the
the
the
iron,
you
know,
they're
they're
almost
indistinguishable
from
the
corrugations
in
the
material
itself,
and
that
was
the
that
was
the
goal.
I
This
shows
the
condition
in
the
rear
yard.
You've
seen
these
you've
probably
saw
well
the
photos
that
that
The,
McCoys
shared
makes
it
look
like
this
is
the
back
side
of
a
movie
theater
looking
right
into
their
house.
I
We
were
absolutely
aware
of
their
concerns
from
the
time
from
since
the
first
month
we
moved
in
that
we
were
going
to
have
to
communicate
with
them
proactively
early
and
often,
and
it
is
apparently
because
of
this,
that
they
built
their
fence.
They
did
not
even
let
us
know
they
were
building
their
fence,
even
though
they
were
extremely
concerned
about
all
the
things
we
were
doing.
I
know
from
experience
that
it
doesn't
matter
what
nine
people
out
of
ten
say
about
your
house.
I
Everybody
happy
we're
just
doing
what
it
is
that
we've
done
in
the
rest
of
our
practice
and
trying
to
basically,
you
know,
make
the
project
the
way
we
want
to,
but
also
very
concerned
about
the
impacts
and
I
think
actually
received
recognition
for
the
impacts
we've
had
on
both
the
environment
and
also
the
the
way
our
projects
attempt
to
fit
into
the
context
see
both
Urban
and
eggs
Urban,
wherever
wherever
they
may
be.
I
What
you're
seeing
here
is
screens
which
are
actually
reduced
in
size.
Our
original
intent,
I'm,
sharing
it
with
McCoys,
was
to
have
a
couple
strategically
placed
screens
which,
basically
just
you
know,
hide
our
view
of
their
garage
when
they
put
up
their
fence
as
a
surprise.
One
week
it's
about
a
hundred
feet
long
or
something
we
didn't
have
to
look
at
their
garage,
but
we
did
have
to
look
at
their
fence
and
I
don't
mean
to
go
on
forever
about
this.
I
But
what
you're
looking
at
here
is
these
screens
placed
about
six
inches
away
from
the
property
line?
Their
fence
is
also
placed
about
six
inches
away
from
the
property
line,
and
the
result
is
that
the
only
way
you
can
see
the
the
back
side
of
the
fence
facing
the
complaint
inside
is
that
you
would
have,
to
you
know
literally
probably
be
walking
on
our
property
to
do
do
so.
I
This
is
intentional.
On
our
part,
we
actually
kept
the
post
to
sort
of
minimize
any
disturbance
on
their
side
and
recognizing
that
there
may
indeed
had
be
this
exact
complaint.
We
kept
the
support
post
down
below
the
top
of
the
Steel
by
about
18
inches
and
because
they're
set
in
within
the
the
width
we
were
also
able
to.
I
Then
you
know,
drop
the
support
on
the
the
horizontal
members
equally
and
so
that,
unless
they
basically
trespassed
on
our
property,
they
are
not
able
to
see
anything
other
than
the
so-called
finished
material
from
their
from
their
property.
I
We
as
part
of
the
process-
we
did,
you
know,
talk
to
our
neighbors
because
we
talked
to
our
neighbors,
mostly
apparently,
I
haven't
talked
to
you
Lynn,
but
we've
got
petitions
signed
by
I.
Think
eight
of
our
surrounding
properties,
who
all
Express
support
for
it.
What
you're
seeing
here
and
the
last
page
is
really
the
property
impacted
most
by
our
project
and
Adam
and
Jenna
you
know,
are-
are
in
the
the
winter
time.
I
Obviously
this
tree
isn't
here,
but
we
specifically
left
that
tree
at
their
request,
when
we
were
actually
going
to
take
it
down
as
we
planted
a
Grove
in
there,
but
you
basically
can't
see
any
of
the
features
that
are
supposedly
impactful
to
our
neighbors
and
then
this
shows
you
how
far
it
is
from
the
street
in
the
winter
time,
when
supposedly
visible,
you
can
zoom
in
there,
and
you
see
almost
less
of
that
altogether.
I
The
other
thing
is
just
the
context
about
why
we
would
have
screens.
Let
me
just
show
you
without
getting
into
it
too
much
we
intentionally
kept
on
these
sides.
We
kept
the
structure
low
as
I
sort
of
mentioned
before
we
moved
these
screens
back
off
of
the
rear
property
line
to
us
respect
the
idea
that
that,
whether
it's
our
yard
or
not,
there's
still
a
landscape
component
which
impacts
our
rear
neighbor.
We
were
not
asked
to
do
that.
We
did
that
because
we
thought
it
was
the
right
thing
to
do.
I
It
creates
a
stepping
down
kind
of
of
the
whole
landscape
in
in
a
way
that
supports
the
the
planting
of
our
yard
and.
I
Know
significant:
it's
not
like
right
up
against
their
kitchen
window
or
bedroom
window,
or
something
like
that.
I
think
with
that,
the
only
other
thing
is,
you
can
see
a
little
bit
here.
These
garages
are
here
our
neighbors
over
here,
George
and
Nancy
have
a
fence
as
well,
and
in
fact
the
the
screens
or
the
the
fence
from
Mr
and
Mrs
Coy
is
along
this
side.
The
so
the
last
things
we've
tried
to
do
is
basically,
as
they're
fence
steps
down
the
hill
I
mean
we
didn't
love
it.
I
We
did
not
complain
about
their
fence.
We
basically
built
a
couple
screens
which
cleans
up
our
yard
in
terms
of
the
whole
kind
of
collective
interior
of
the
of
the
yard.
In
a
way
that
you
know,
we
felt
addressed
what
we
could
do
about
looking
at
their
fence
rather
than
going
and
complaining
their
fence
and
asking
that
there
should
be
something
to
do
with
it.
Likewise,
you
can
see
our
neighbors
to
the
rear.
I
mean
you
know
it's.
I
It's
a
dump
Zone
behind
there
as
a
lot
of
garages
are
I,
mean
there's
a
very
common
issue
and
our
neighbors
George
and
Nancy
really
could
not
be
nicer.
People
have
a
fence
which
is
basically
falling
down
and
which
is
absolutely
Allowed
by
code,
and
you
know
we
basically
put
in
these
screens
to
just
basically
manage
that
whole
situation
and
I
think
with
that
I
can
ask
I,
can
answer
other
questions,
but
that's
probably
more
than
we
all
wanted
to
listen
to
at
this
point.
I
I
guess
maybe
the
only
other
point
is
like
in
any
time
we're
sort
of
I
apologize
for
the
history
in
terms
of
like
trying
to
avoid
these
things
ahead
of
time
through
asking
for
variance
actually
sort
of
happens
through
the
permit
process
and
I
did
I
deal
with
you
beforehand
before
on
that
or
questions
before
we
build
our
fence.
H
I
Yeah
you're
somebody
else
in
the
office.
Basically,
who
said
like
great
I've
got
this
thing:
how
can
we
sort
of
deal
with
this?
What
are
we
allowed
to
do?
I
I,
you
know
I,
should
know
all
of
the
codes.
There's
a
lot
of
codes
and
there,
as
I
said
somewhat
subjective.
I
can
kind
of
go
into
those
a
little
bit
more
detail,
but
I
don't
know
if
it's
actually
necessary,
but
but
basically
we
tried
to
ask
the
right
questions.
We
tried
to
get
the
permits
we
needed.
I
It
was
very
unclear
that
we
were
going
to
need
any
variances
to
do
what
we
wanted
to
do
because
I
frankly
didn't
understand
this.
This
I
mean
I'm
looking
at
the
the
other
precedence
from
the
other
fences
in
relation
to
what
we
wanted
to
do
seemed
like
I,
I,
guess,
I,
don't
see
what
the
what
the
issue
is
right,
because
we
have
support
members
but
they're
architectonic.
We
like
them
I,
can
understand
other
people,
don't
the
issues
for
like
it.
I
Basically,
it
kind
of
comes
down
into
if
I
wanted
to
have
both
sides
of
the
fence.
Look
exactly
the
same
way.
I
could
do
that
and
we
still
can
do
that
I.
Think
then.
The
final
thing
is
that
that
I
could
do
that,
but
I'm
not
sure
who
this
serves
and
the
difficulty
and
the
kind
of
anti-sustainable
sustainability
of
going
in
and
tearing
these
things
apart
and
rebuilding
them.
The
way
that
is
agreeable
with
the
city's
blessing
at
this
point
seems
I'm,
not
sure
who
this
is
going
to
benefit
frankly.
I
I,
certainly
don't
want
to
either
pay
for
it
or
take
the
time
to
do
it
and
is
likely
going
to
be
me
doing
that
work.
So
I
guess
I
went
on
a
little
longer
than
10
minutes
ago,
when
I
said
I
was
going
to
stop.
So
that's.
A
I
I
It
is
actually
structural,
but
it
needs
something
to
basically
place
it
into
the
ground,
and
so
these
posts
are
actually
interestingly,
very
I,
mean
because
they're
made
out
of
metal
they
they
can
be
made
much
more
slender
than
a
4x4
or
a
six
by
six
post,
but
they're
also
going
to
last
a
heck
of
a
lot
longer,
and
one
of
the
problems
with
fences
in
general
is
that
they're
wood
they
get
placed
in
concrete,
because
that
is
the
easiest
way
to
do
them,
but
they
have
a
lifespan
of
about
10
years.
I
Maybe
it
depends
on
the
soil
a
lot
of
different
things.
They
rot
right
at
that
concrete.
This
is
a
way
to
get
around
that.
We
expect
our
suspense
to
stay
straight,
for
you
know,
30
years
or
whatever,
that
is
going
to
be,
and
that
is
really
the
intent
of
sort
of
using
this
kind
of
system,
while
also
trying
to
like
understand
how
we
can
still
I,
don't
know,
make
something
which
is
aesthetically
pleasing
to
our
neighbors
as
well
as
us,
which
again,
of
course,
is
subjective.
So.
A
I
Yeah
so
I
use
the
word
architectonic
before
and.
I
Architecture
with
a
smaller
capital
A,
however,
you
want
to
say
it
without
being
sort
of
elitist.
It
was
like
a
lot
of
this
is
about
about
the
things
that
go
into
the
building
and
how
the
structure
and
how
the
skin
is
all
working
together
to
you
know
just
kind
of
make
some
sense
so
that
you
understand
it,
but
can
also
appreciate
how
those
materials
come
together.
So,
in
this
case,
I
would
say
that
you
can
see
from.
Let
me
show
you
the
before
and
after
picture
from.
I
I
put
this
together
and
spend
enough
time
doing
it.
You
would
think
I
would
know
where
it
is.
You
can
see
this
or
the
before
and
after
one
of
the
questions
we
had
is
how
the
in
practice,
how
the
the
wood
and
how
the
the
galvanized
steel
would
work
together
with
the
weathering
steel
and
through
conversations
with
the
city,
it
seemed
like
it
was
going
to
be
acceptable
for
us
to
treat
the
posts
and
the
horizontals
with
an
oxidized
paint.
I
I
I
I
might
say
that
the
other
picture
here
is
our
front
yard
and
down
here
you
can
get
a
sense
for
I
mean
this
is
just
the
top
of
these
stairs.
You
can
get
a
sense
of
how
minimal
that
impact
is
we
there's
both
wood
and
and
the
exposed
posts
on
here.
I
You
know
which
we
do
look
at
I
mean
I,
I,
think
it's
cool,
but
again
that
that
they
can
both
be
finished
and
be
different,
but
that
is
apparently
a
reading
of
the
zoning
code,
which
makes
it
difficult
for
somebody
like
us
wanting
to
do
something
which
is
authentic,
potentially
I,
don't
know
if
you
don't
want
to
do
the
dog,
the
dog-eared
Fence
Cedar
things
which,
which
are
probably
the
cheapest
way
to
do
it,
which
are
allowed
by
code.
I
You,
you
can
run
into
issues
in
terms
of
these
very
questions
about
what
it
actually
is
acceptable
or
not.
In
fact,
the
first
complaint
by
City's
own
staff.
They
had
said
that
we
had
materials
which
weren't
allowed
and
one
of
the
things
we
pointed
out
is
we
absolutely
complied
with
that
aspect
of
it
and
we
very
intentionally
used
only
steel
and
only
would,
despite
what
you
know,
staff
saying
we
were
allowed
to
do
so.
I
I
mean
I,
I,
think
it
just
goes
to
so
that
you
can
actually
be
part
of
the
city
system
and
and
and
still
have
some
of
these
problems
about
what
actually
you're
allowed
to
do
or
not,
and
so
I
may
have
made
it
it.
It's
not
surprising
to
me
that
when
I
ask
certain
questions
up
front,
I
was
not
necessarily
given
all
the
the
necessary
information
to
then
sort
of
proactively
address
these
things
before
they
became
a
problem.
I
mean
we've
applied
for
a
lot
of
variances
ahead
of
time.
I
I
I'm,
sorry
for
wasting
your
time
here
or
taking
up
your
your
valuable
time
on
something
which
ideally
would
have
been
handled
ahead
of
time.
This
is
exactly
the
first
one
that
I
would
have
had
had
to
do
retroactively
on
a
project,
so
I
apologize
for
that.
K
Vice
chair
thanks
for
your
presentation,
I
guess
you
noted
earlier
you
had
reached
out
to
the
city
to
talk
about
fences.
Did
they
give
you
the
PDF
or
the
location
of
the
PDF?
That
explains
the
fences
yeah
and
their
heights
and
and
the
code
and
the
variants
you
know
I
mean
and
the
code
issues
about
the
finished
side
and
the
unfinished
side
yeah.
I
I
mean,
as
as
these
things
become
there's
you
know,
50
things
that
you
kind
of
consider
it's
absolutely
my
responsibility
to
to
you
know,
address
them
and
then
follow
through
them
and
I've.
Given
you
some
of
the
reasons
why
it
was
unclear
to
me
that
I
wasn't
neces
like
it
was
going
to
be
that
important
or
that
that
there
would
be
a
complaint
against
something
that
somebody
basically
can't
see,
for
example,
and
how
that
then
could
get
blown
up
into
something
that
then
requires.
I
You
know
40
people's
time
and
effort
reviewing
when
you
include
our
neighborhood
and
my
neighbors
and
all
the
people
are
here
today.
If
you
know
what
I
mean
so
I.
K
I
Yeah,
if
just
a
few
screens,
we
did
not
want
to
build
a
big
wall
around
we,
you
can
see
from
this
design
that
it
was
absolutely
Our
intention
to
box
in
the
yard
in
a
way,
as
you
can
see,
just
the
original
design
in
blue
versus
what
we
built
in
red,
we
reduced
it.
It
was
our
intention
to
leave
our
landscape
and
their
landscape
to
extend
the
views
through
like
the
woods.
If
you
will
into
each
other's
trees,
I
I
mean
I.
I
It's
not
my
intention
to
build
a
beautiful
Grove
and
not
have
anybody
see
it
by
myself,
I
mean
the
Grove
is
going
to
be
almost
more
visible
to
our
neighbors
in
the
rear,
as
well
as
provide
you
know,
habitat
as
well
as
via
carbon
sink
right
and
as
well
as
it
would
be.
Potentially
if,
if
the,
if
our
neighbors
wouldn't
have
built
their
fence
back
there,
they
could
have
sat
back
there
like
they
used
to
and
enjoyed
that
Grove
even
more
than
we
would
in
that
location.
I
E
So
in
terms
of
Umbra
I
think
we're
all
like
piecing
together
the
timeline
of
how
this
project
has
evolved,
and
so
one
of
the
points
that
you
clarified
was
that
The
McCoys
had
built
their
fence
prior
to
you
putting
in
the
screens
and
so
I
think
my
question
is
now:
what
is
it
screening
like
I
guess?
What
is
the
purp?
Is
it
serving
a
specific
purpose
now
that
you've
put
in
those
screens
or
I
guess
like
wanting
to
understand
more
around
the
rationale
of
even
installing
right
I
mean.
I
Well,
you
can
see
here,
I,
don't
know
if
how
easy
it
is
to
zoom
in.
Let's
just
try
to
zoom
in
on
this
one,
the
top
part
of
this
I
guess
I
mean
you
can
see
how
it
steps
down.
You
know
we
didn't
in
intent.
Weathered
Cedar
is
to
be
part
of
our
backyard.
We
could
build
a
fence
all
the
way
across
there
as
it
steps
there's.
You
know
the
the
our
Our
Land
steps
down
their
steps
down.
I
Theirs
takes
jogs,
which
we
were
like
great
I'd
like
to
just
kind
of
clean
up
some
of
those
things
we
built
our
our
our
screens,
there's
an
eight
foot
and
a
ten
foot
wide
screen
here.
It's
it's
like
directly
at
the
same
height
as
there.
So
you
can
see
it
here.
In
fact,
their
finials
fit
up
set
up
fire
they're,
the
finials
that
are
actually
still
on
the
house
on
the
fence
that
was
built
a
year
ago
and
haven't
fallen
off.
That
is,
and
you
know
the
other
thing
they
complained
about.
I
It
was
too
high
and
City
supported
them
on
that.
To
this
point,
because
city
has
to
basically
follow
the
letter,
not
the
intent
or
not
the
actual
outcome
of
of
the
code.
I
totally
understand
that.
So
it
was
through
these
things,
as
well
as
the
thing
in
the
front
which
had
to
do
with
encroachment
and
had
to
do
with
us
needing
life.
Safety
guard
rail
component
to
the
stairs
that
were
all
kind
of
part
of
the
same
project.
L
I,
thank
you.
Looking
at
the
the
treatment
between
the
two,
can
you
talk
about
a
little
bit
of
your
communication
with
staff
and
you
going
into
the
the
treatment?
Well
like
what
did
they
tell
you
about
the
finished
after
you
treated
it
or
before
you
treated
it.
I
Yeah
Steve's
last
name
Blackman,
so
Mr
wekman
visited
our
site
two
or
three
times
or
something
besides
the
time
when
he
came
over
to
visit
The
McCoys
and
you
know,
we
walk
through
it
and
you
know
kind
of
talked
about
everything
and
sort
of
talked
about
like
great.
What's
I
I
just
said
like:
what's
your
prop,
you
know
not
what's
your
problem
but
like
how?
I
How
can
we
sort
of
work
with
through
this,
and
so
that
this
is
where
this
sort
of
issue
about
treating
the
the
wood,
even
though
it
was
the
same
colors
as
what
the
steel
was
going
to
be
treating
it
with
this
paint
was
a
verbal
conversation,
Ms
Roman,
it's
not
really
her
job,
I,
think
or
like
wasn't
her
role
to
kind
of
like
interface
with
that.
I
So
we
didn't
really
talk
about
it
very
much
I
mean
we
a
little
bit
I'm
sure
through
the
applications
and
whatnot
and
I
I
mean
again
we
tried
to
be
proactive
and
do
things
which
we
think
are
going
to
resolve
something
anyway
right
and
so
I
said
great
I
was
unsure
whether
we
were
going
to
do
the
do
the
post
and
I
like
I.
We
just
we
did
it
when
the
weather
finally
kind
of
clocked
through
to
Summer
and
when
we
could
actually
paint
and
do
that.
I
I
I
did
that
and
it
seemed
like
it
was
going
to
be
effective.
But
it's
not
like
I
asked
for
anybody
to
sign
off
on
it.
I
mean
it's
just
like
it's
just
like
you
have
to
decide
for
yourself
whether
you
feel
like
there's
going
to
be
something
served
by
changes
made
at
this
point
and
I
mean
I'm,
not
exactly
sure
how
we'd
resolve
that
I
guess
I
would
work
with
Ms
Roman
and
her
staff
directly
to
do
that.
I
guess.
A
A
I
thought
I'll
close
the
public
hearing
open
the
board
for
board
comment.
A
I
guess
I'll,
kick
it
off
and
say
you
know.
At
the
end
of
the
day,
we
are
deciding
whether
or
not
the
zoning
administrator
correctly
determined.
What
is
the
finished
side
of
the
fence
and
whether
or
not
the
finished
side
of
the
fence
is
on
the
front
or
the
outward
facing
portion
of
this
particular
subject
property
or
on
the
inward
portion
of
the
subject,
property
Mr.
K
Johansson
thanks
Vice,
chair
softly,
I,
guess
I'd
like
to
say
I
support
staff
findings
in
this
one.
When
I
look
at
the
photos
it
it
looks
pretty
clear
to
me
which
side
is
finished
and
one
side
isn't
I
know
it's
purely
aesthetic,
but
that's
the
co.
The
ordinance
is
pretty
clear.
The
Miriam
dictionary
definition
seems
clear
to
me,
so
it's
kind
of
where
I'm
standing.
F
I'm
inclined
to
also
go
with
staff
findings,
but
I
do
have
kind
of
a
general
staff
question
is
when
we're
talking
about
the
artistic
interpretation
of
design.
I.
Think
it's
really
interesting
for
what
he's
trying
to
do
with
the
materials
and
the
way
that
he's
approaching
it.
So
my
general
question
is
you
know
what
kind
of
flexibility
and
modernization
does
our
zoning
code
allow
when
we're
thinking
about
new
materials,
new
emerging
technology?
H
Board
member
Wang
so
in
terms
of
materials
city
code
really
only
regulates
that
there's
a
maximum
of
two
and
that
fences
are
constructed
of
permanent
fencing
materials.
So
we
Define
that
as
being
wood,
metal,
traditional
fencing
type
materials.
Certainly
there
is
discussion
with
applicants
about
what
that
means,
as
as
materials
are
coming
online
that
evolve.
You
know
when
vinyl
fences
became
a
new
thing.
We
had
a
discussion
about
how
that
Works
into
a
permanent
fencing
material.
H
So
really
it's
just
about
the
longevity
of
the
material
that's
being
installed
today
in
terms
of
whether
or
not
it's
finished
or
not.
We
certainly
deal
with
fences
that
are
what
we
consider
sandwich,
so
they
do
have
have
support
structures
on
both
sides,
but
it
would
be
that
they
match
on
on
both
sides
of
the
fencing.
That
really
is
where
stock
makes
the
determination
we
do
not
try
to
determine
based
on
Aesthetics,
because
that
is
a
variable
from
person
to
person
all
right.
Thank
you.
K
A
Okay,
and
with
that,
the
motion
is
adopted
and
the
application
is
denied,
you
can
speak
with
staffs
about
your
your
options
moving
forward.
Thank
you
all
for
coming
down
here
today
and
this
concludes
the
public
business
of
the
of
the
board.
Let's
see
find
my
agenda
here.
Do
we
have
an
item
number
six
on
the
agenda
today?
Are
there
any
updates?
Mr
Ellis?