City of Mountain View, CA Environmental Planning Commission Meetings, 17 May 2023

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From YouTube: May 17, 2023, Environmental Planning Commission Meeting

Description

Live Teleconference of the Regular Meeting of Mountain View City Council of May 17, 2023.

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And commission meeting of May 17 2023 I call the meeting to order at 7 pm for those joining us in person. Please note that, due to our hybrid environment, audio and video presentations can no longer be shared from the Western requests to show an audio or video presentation during the meeting should be directed to EPC at mountainview.gov by 4 30 pm on the meeting date. Additionally, due to our hybrid environment, we will no longer have speakers line up to speak on an item.

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Anyone wishing to address the EPC in person must complete a yellow speaker card. Please indicate the name you would like to be called by when it is your turn to speak. An item number on which you wish to speak. Please complete one yellow speaker card for each item on which you wish to speak and turn them into the EPC clerk as soon as possible. But no later than the call for public comment on the item, we were speaking on instructions for addressing the commission virtually may be found on the posted agenda.

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Now I will ask the EPC clerk to uh take roll call.

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Missionary yeah Mr Dempsey.

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um Roll call uh is finished. There are no minutes to approve, so we will move on to oral Communications from the public. This portion of the meeting is reserved for persons wishing to address the ABC on any matter, not on the agenda. Speakers are allowed to speak on any topic for up to three minutes during this section. State law prohibits the commission from acting on non-agenda items. If anyone in attendance would like to provide comments on non-agenda items, please fill out the yellow card and provide it to the ABC clerk anyone on Zoom.

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If anyone on Zoom would like to provide comment on non-agenda items, please click the raise hand, button and zoom or press star 9 on your phone phone users can mute and unmute themselves with star 6.. There.

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There's no speaker in the room or on Zoom.

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Thank you all right, then, we'll just proceed to five uh new business. um 5.1 Retreat and development review process overview. We'll first have staff presentations. Then public comment at the closure of public comment. The commission will then discuss the item, including any questions and for the staff presentation. We have Krishna pelnar, acting senior planner Lindsey Hagan assistant community development, director John Schwartz SQL consultant with JHS Consulting Eric Anderson, Advanced planning manager and Artie shravastava assistant city manager, community development, director.

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Hello Commissioners, my name is krisha panoliar after the senior planner and we're here to give a brief overview on the development review process. Matrix, study improvements and SQL review, so cities have development review authority to protect the public health safety, convenience and Welfare of its residents.

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This allows land use and zoning regulations such as implementation of General plans, zoning ordinance and precise plans. The general plan is a comprehensive visioning document that guides future growth. The zoning ordinance dictates permitted land uses and development regulations.

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The general plan has identified five change areas to become precise plans to allow for additional growth and planned public improvements. These precise plans allow for more specific zoning standards and address more local conditions. Currently we have 25 precise plans, but some recently adopted precise plans include the East wisman North Bay Shore El Camino Real and San Antonio precise plants.

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State legislations also impacts the development review process. The permit streamlining act, for example, sets time limits and procedures for review of development projects. Other state laws have superseded cities, regulations and have impacted cities, development review process in some shape reform. Some of these are listed here.

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To understand development review, it's important to keep in mind the different land use decisions which impact how a decision is made and the amount of discretion that can go behind decision. Making three categories include the following: ministerial decisions are those made with no discretion a project either conforms to the requirements or does not. If a project conforms to all requirements, it cannot be denied. Examples include building permits, change of use, permits, adus and SB 35, affordable housing projects.

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Only judicial decisions include some level of discretion. This requires certain findings to support city code requirements and policies. Projects that fall under quasi-judicial discretionary decisions include most development projects, such as new developments, conditional youth permits, variances and Heritage tree removals.

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Legislative decisions decisions do not fall under the constraints of existing regulations as the decisions modify or create the policies or laws. These include General plan, zoning or precise plan amendments such as gatekeeper projects. However, please note some legislative decisions may be superseded by state requirements and limits flexibility on these types of decisions. For example, the state Arena requirements required re-zones as part of the housing element previously presented at EGC.

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Other nuanced examples to keep in mind that EPC May encounter may require both quasi-judicial decidual judicial decisions and legislative decisions such as the 555 Middlefield residential project. This includes a quasi-judicial decision, be made for the project itself and a legislative decision for the reasoning.

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During this presentation, we'll cover the reasons that's for the development review process. This includes optional review for pre-entitlements planning, review and post entitlements.

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Re-Entitlements occurs before a formal application. Submittals there are a few types of pre-entitlement reviews. The first one is the informal review. The informal review allows the developer to submit an application and conceptual materials of their proposed design that application materials are reviewed by all departments, and comments are provided to highlight high-level issues associated with their proposed development. This process is intended for the applicant to make modifications to better address the city's adopted design objectives or city requirements.

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The informal review do not require a fee and helps developers make a decision on whether or not to move forward with the project. Sb 330 preliminary applications allow developers to submit materials consistent with state law once a complete completed. Preliminary application is submitted. This allows applicants to best the local planning and zoning rules in place at the time of application. Submittal SB 35 is a streamlined ministerial approval process for affordable housing projects. The preliminary application for SB 35 projects is intended to allow for tribal consultation to occur.

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And lastly, the gatekeeper process applies to projects seeking a general plan and Zoning Amendment. This this process requires interested developers to go through a city council authorization. Hearing at this hearing, city council determines on whether a zoning or general plan amendment should move forward with the formal application submitted.

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So the project review begins once a formal application and Associated materials are submitted to planning Style. During this initial project review environmental assessment begins once an application is submitted. The application is reviewed by planning staff and other departments if the application is missing key application materials, as listed in the formal application checklist, the project is deemed incomplete.

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The planner then compiles comments and missing items from all departments and sends to the developer. This Must ALL occur within 30 days from application submittal due to permit streamlining app requirements.

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The developer then makes revisions to their projects and resubmits the revised plans and missing items for project review. This process continues until an application is deemed complete and a decision is made on the project.

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In addition to the departmental review, Community meetings are typically scheduled, especially for new construction projects. These meetings allow members to provide input on the project. Design and overall project meetings include neighborhood meetings and DRC meetings. Larger more complex projects may require additional EPC and city council study sessions. The neighborhood meeting is a developer held meeting intended to get feedback from the neighborhood regarding their project developers will send notices to neighbors within 750 feet of the property as well as neighborhood associations.

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The development Review Committee is an advisory body that is chaired by the deputy zoning administrator and includes two Consulting architects. This is intended to provide feedback on site design and architecture to meet cities, design guidelines and improve neighborhood compatibility projects seeking key input on the deviations or legislative changes may involve environmental Planning, Commission and city council study sessions to get direction from decision-making bodies. During the project review process, the once developers would fit receive feedback. These comments are Incorporated to the project design.

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So, along with meetings for Community input and project review, technical studies such as environmental review utility impact studies, multimodal Transportation analysis is worked on throughout the project. Time frame the details on environmental assessments ask for California Environmental Quality act will be discussed following the presentation.

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So there are a few key components to look at during the planning review, and these are listed here. There's completeness are all necessary documents submitted. This is important as permit streamlining apps. That's time framing streams for planning permit review. Once a project is being complete. The decision must be made within a certain time frame, codes and regulations. Does the project comply with the general plan, zoning ordinance, precise plan and other City adopted guidelines context? How does the project relate to the adjacent property?

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Are their Heritage trees worth preserving out of circulation throughout site work and are there impacts to existing pedestrian vehicular Network Community input? What feedback did the project receive from neighborhood groups, members of the public and other public bodies?

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Nexus and proportionality are the project specific requirements proportional to the Project's impacts on the community and departmental review, so staff from building Public, Works, housing, forestry and fire will also review the project and consider these key items listed here.

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So once a project is deemed complete, a decision on the project can be made. It's important to note that not all projects require public hearings and can be reviewed at staff level. However, for projects that do require a public hearing, it will require additional noticing, so mailers will be set to Property Owners, located 700 feet of 50 feet of the project site. A notice will be posted in the new newspaper of the public hearing on-site project signs will be installed, emails will be sent to community and stakeholder groups and for larger projects.

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Additional information is available through specific project web pages on the city's website. So project approvals may vary and can be approved at zoning administrator level, or they may require city council approval, EPC, typically, reviews development projects that request General plan or zoning amendments or development projects requesting bonus far.

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After planning approvals, applicants will submit for post entitlement permits, such as building permits and excavation permits. During the stage applicants will work with staff to ensure the planning conditions of approval are fulfilled, legal Agreements are finalized and impact fees are paid once the building perm is issued. Construction May begin entitlements are not vested until construction begins. So if a project does not begin construction within two years, their entitlements expire unless they apply for a permit extension during construction.

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Periodic inspections from the building division, fire, Division and public works department will occur to ensure construction related materials are implemented, planning will also conduct inspections to ensure color and material match the entitled sets following construction. The project may have requirements that must be followed after the project is built as part of ongoing operations. An example is transparent, patient demand, management, monitoring and Reporting.

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So, overall, the development review process is complex and includes multiple steps. There are different priorities that must be balanced for a project that supports the city's goals and policies. However, there's more room to improve the development review process and so I'll turn it over to assistant community development director Hagen to discuss how the city is improving. This process.

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uh Thank you, Miss penelar, um so I think as we can all recognize the development review process an important process to implementing the city's vision of um you know, having a diverse community and inclusive and Vibrant Community, and over the years, some of which some of the laws which krisha mentioned um you know. State laws and new federal laws have really complicated the process and has made the development process more complex.

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um Additionally, new local and Regional regulations have complicated. You know, processes uh and, in general, there's just a stronger interest in um increasing uh expectation from the community in development um and so really with all of these factors coming into play.

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The city in 2020 hired um Matrix, Consulting Group to really assess our development review process and look at our permitting processes, and this really means planning permits, building permits really all permits related to development, and this was an assessment of every single Department in the city that relates to development and so roughly, over a little over a year, Matrix spent assessing our process. They conducted online surveys with recent applicants. They interviewed City staff council members.

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They had focus groups, one-on-one meetings with developers, they evaluated and looked at all of our documentation, all of our personal seizures processes. They also looked at our technology and our staffing, and so with that uh they their first step, was identifying some of um some of the findings they made with our existing processes, um so focusing kind of on what some of their initial findings were in that study. uh Some of the strengths that they identified of our of our current process is that City staff does provide detailed comment, letters and detailed staff reports.

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um Some folks mentioned some of our online services. The most popular one mentioned was the building inspections and how people can schedule that online and that's beneficial also that for planning and building permits that they are reviewed concurrently across City departments. Not all cities do that, so that was something they highlighted as the strength of ours and that we're using contract staff appropriately we're using them for Peak workloads or for specialty kind of Niche.

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You know skill sets and then also that we transitioned to paperless and virtual appointments very quickly during covid, um so some of the common themes that came out of their assessment and communication with various parties on desired improvements really focus around having more enhanced online services related to permitting or more information in general online. That's easier to find and easier to understand, there's an overall dissatisfaction with our permitting timelines, and also that, while we might have a concurrent review that um we got feedback around having poor coordination and I think really what was meant behind.

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That is more. um Some of our comments are not consistent or conflicting, um so it's not providing Clarity or clear direction to the to the applicant, um and so, as a result, that's reflecting poorly in customer service or maybe not being solution oriented.

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On the next slide, thank you um so out of their assessment, they had 53 recommendations that they focused on and those recommendations really fall into three categories: the first being about process improvements, so ways to improve coordination, provide clearer information and reduce our timelines. The second category about technology enhancements, adding new technologies that improve process and support online, permitting a big piece of feedback we heard through this process was about transparency being able to understand where your permit is in the process who you can contact who's.

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Reviewing your your permit and things like that, as well as having the ability to uh for the city to produce data that supports or outlines our performance as City staff, on permitting in our process, as well as a desire for an improved City website, and the third category is really about people and service levels, so really about filling staff vacancies and looking at staff training and customer service training in particular.

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So I wanted to dive a little bit more into what we've done uh in relation to those three categories. What we've done to date in terms of implementing some of these recommendations so focusing on process improvements? First, um there's really three key teams that I want to talk about.

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um The first is the Innovation team, so this is a um team that is made up of key managers and department, heads and Community Development and Public Works, which are two main departments working on development permits, and really the focus of this team I would say is two-part.

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One is to provide a venue in which issues that can't be resolved at the project manager level can be elevated and addressed in a very efficient, effective manner, with department, heads and other key managers same room and so having this dedicated ing that we have once a month allows us to have this venue to get this direction and be more efficient and effective in getting Solutions and moving forward on projects and also by its very nature, creates an environment where it empowers managers to be able to take the direction they received and move forward and implementing things so I think, indirectly, or directly you're sort of helping develop that skill set of being able to lead more effectively at the management level.

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Instead of going to the department heads all the time, so I think that's really been a great Improvement that we've made into in terms of having that that meeting and that venue, um the second group uh or team, is the permit navigation team. So I lead this team.

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This team is made up of one representative from planning building and public works and really those three groups are key in most of our development permits, um and this group allows us to be a little bit more Nimble in trying to address uh permit issues primarily during the building permit phase.

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um So it allows us to kind of coordinate, quickly, figure out sort of who's, taking the lead on resolving certain issues on a permit um and allow us to kind of move effectively and efficiently through a process to get a permit unstuck, they'll, say um and then the third group is the project Coordinating, Committee or PCC. So this is a group- that's actually been around for two decades. It's part of our uh it's led by the planning team and it's a Avenue in which we distribute and review planning permits across all the city departments.

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um So it's made up of roughly 80 to 100 people at any given time within the city and it's all parties, or all people that are involved in reviewing planning permits, um and so this group meets uh once a week to go over permits that are actively in the review process.

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So, as Miss pennellar mentioned that 30-day window that we have to review a project application, um it's really what, during that window, this meeting would be taking place and every department has two weeks to review materials and either identify inconsistencies, Corrections missing information and then uh provide their comments to the project planner. Who then collates everything and passes it on to the applicant?

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So as part of this PCC process, if you don't mind going to the next slide, we actually track how many uh or the on-time response rate for the different parties involved so on the left here of this table, you'll see all the different groups that are involved in the review of planning permits, um and so this would be on time within that two-week time frame. So they have to provide the comments within those two weeks and then they're considered on time um in the last half of 2021.

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um I should back up a little sorry um during covid we disengaged this group, so we were not using the PCC platform, and so um the First Column here July to December 2020 one reflects that what happened there, which is that we had a very poor success rate of being on time at 57 when we re-engage the PCC process through a different platform Now using a virtual platform and we re-engage throughout the calendar year for 2022, uh you can see, we we've dramatically increased our success rate of being on time and really what's important.

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Here is providing comments on time in gives the planner time to then go through the comments, make sure everything's coordinated consistent and that we're not giving conflicting information to the applicant. Ultimately, that's our goal is to provide clear and direct communication to the applicant.

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So moving on looking at the technology improvements, some of you may have heard that we've launched our online permitting system for building permits.

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We launched that last month it's called e-permits MV, um and so we started with building permits, since that is the highest volume that we have so we started there first and so far in the first 30 days, we've gotten a lot of positive feedback about how much easier it is to submit all of your materials track them see who's commenting on stuff when they're done with their review, so a lot of positive feedback so far about it. We actually just kicked off developing the planning and Public Works modules to the system.

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So, ultimately, the goal is to have all permits funneled through this one program, and that way it's it's easy for people. They just learn it once and then they stick with it the whole time, and so we hope to have that release either late this year or early next year. So we'll add those modules on on the other technology update if anyone happens to have gone to mountainview.gov today, you'll notice that it's a brand new website launched today.

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um So it's a new. It represents our new brand. Our new color scheme, it's much more modern, easier to navigate I. Think all around much better site, um an exciting piece of that is that we're actually developing specific development permit related Pages, which we're developing right now and we will be adding to the website this summer, and so these pages are really trying to reframe how we share information and provide information about the permit process to any any interested party.

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So, for example, if someone's interested in installing a jacuzzi in there in their backyard, they only they can get their information on one page with all the key information they need about. Permit fees costs process, information that they need to submit. So really it's trying to make more of a One-Stop shop for various types of projects and present the information in a very clear and consistent way. So we're pretty excited about that um and then last but not least, the last category about people and service levels.

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I think an important thing to update is just about our staffing vacancies, because that ultimately impacts our ability to provide service. So these numbers up here represent the building planning and Public Works Land Development groups. These are the main groups that make up um and are part of the development review process um in general.

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Planning has had a pretty significant vacancy rate for the last year or so, and I am proud to say now that we did onboard for new planners in the last 30 days, so um they're new to our to our team, but we're very excited to have them and I think it's made a huge dent in the staff vacancies and.

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With that I think I will um pass it on to.

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God, it's all right. I'll move over here, just to mix up.

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Chair members of the commission, again I'm John, Schwarz I'm, an environmental consultant to the city, and my role is to assist the planning department and the staff managing overseeing and bending the environmental review for various development projects. So I've been before you many times over the years, and thanks for having me here today, I'm just going to spend a few minutes um talking a little bit about reviewing some of the basics of SQL and the different levels of review. Just as a refresher I know.

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Many of you have been at this for some time and are familiar with all these documents, but we figured we review some of that information and talk about some issues and nuances and kind of consideration. Things can come up a lot, so uh sequo again is California Environmental Quality act. It's a state law that basically requires agencies like the city to disclose and and evaluate the environmental impacts of development projects and activities before they go forward with them.

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So the main basic overarching purposes of Sigma are to disclose impacts, provide information to decision makers like yourselves and the general public and really kind of daylight and disclose the decision-making process and encourage participation. So other purposes identified in the law are to avoid impacts if possible, and also to consider alternative designs, especially in the IR process, which I'll talk about in just a bit.

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Sql from a mindset perspective is procedural right, it's not a permit. That gets issued, it's not a decision, it's a process. We have to go through an analysis, and so it applies to discretionary projects that, where the city is making a judgment, call about something something it doesn't apply to ministerial projects as, as was touched on earlier, some of the various ministerial things the city does on a regular basis. Sql doesn't typically apply to those.

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I won't spend any time on this slide. This is just a spattering of the range of environmental topic areas and issues you see in the environmental documents that come before you, and these are all cataloged in the guidelines with questions and answers. We need to provide to address them.

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This slides a little dense, but I just want to touch on the three main levels of environmental review under sequence: kind of three process document tracks: one is an exemption. The the state legislature has carved out statutory exemptions. uh This is the quickest and simplest thing where, basically, we say Seek was not required. We fill out a form, it gets posted to the county and the state and we're done examples of statutory exemptions.

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The one that always sticks out to me it's been in the guidelines for years is posting the Olympics and preparing for the Olympics. You don't have to do Secret review for stuff like that and there's a whole host of them now and more have been added over the years. But categorical exemptions are categories of projects that typically don't have environmental, significant environmental impacts.

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um You're, never Out of the Woods, though, because you, if you have a unique circumstance or a special problem with that project, that's going to result in impacts. You may not be able to do an exemption, but typically things like maintenance and repair minor alteration of facilities: utility Replacements, um if you tore down a small office building and built a new one in the same place, same capacity, that kind of stuff usually qualifies for an exception. Initial study, negative declaration or mitigated negative declarations. Many times is the middle tier process and document.

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It's a checklist of all those issue areas I touched on and we go through that to determine whether the project is going to result in any significant impacts. If they can be mitigated and reduced, then we can proceed with the negative declaration and the process is shorter if we cannot- and we have impacts that are significant- that we cannot avoid or reduce. We get kicked into the full environmental impact report, which is the most robust process and document and Analysis. So, as you, you know, it's got additional steps in it for public involvement.

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It also has some additional sections in the document that have required. Like a summary in the discussion of alternatives. Okay, I won't spend much time on this either. This is a very simple uh steps for the initial study process. There's probably several steps in each of these boxes, but just for illustration, we typically start once we have a project and an application file. We we start with various technical studies depending on the site and the project. We might do: biological analyzes traffic and VMT air quality noise, hazardous materials.

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Whatever the case might be, then we put together administrative versions of the initial study. We hash those out as a group revise it turn it, and then we get it ready for the public review. That document gets published. An initial study must be published for 20 days. Often it most often is 30.. And then, if comments are raised after the circulation period by members of the public or any agencies, we deal with them. We address them and we bring them before you. Ultimately, the ND comes before you to be adopted and recommended to the council.

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Similarly, for the eir, the main difference here is that at the front end, we're required to do a notice, preparation and telling the agencies in the world that we're preparing the eir on such and such a project, and we often have a public scoping meeting. The point of those is to solicit input into the analysis from agencies of the general public. Then we go through the same process for the tech studies. We do our admin reviews. We get the bir ready for Prime Time public circulation.

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That must be posted publicly for 45 days and the other big difference here is. We are required to respond in writing to any all the comments that are received during that period And. So you see those come before you in the final eir documents and then, along with that, we also prepare mitigation, monitoring and Reporting program, which is usually a matrix table document. That kind of shows how the city is going to follow up and commit to these mitigation bedrooms and then again that all comes before you to be certified.

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Recommended secret requires us to analyze the project as proposed and based on the detail that we have, and so we often have bigger picture documents on General plan updates and precise plan. We have a lot of precise plans in Mountain, View and so those analyzes are more broad brush and then versus a say, a town home project where we have engineered plans. That's a very fine grain site-specific analysis.

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um I wanted to mention this situation because we use it a lot in Mountain View, where we tier we SQL encourages tiering, not Reinventing the analysis.

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Every time, although it seems like we do these over and over I know, but the idea is, you can take an analysis done for a broad project like a precise plan, you that's been all disclosed and then follow-on projects within that precise plan that come forward can do a more focused, narrow analysis that incorporates the big picture stuff and just focuses on what's important to that site or what's unique to that project.

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This is a good thing for the city, because it also limits the legal exposure and the attack points on the environmental analysis. The stuff. That's been disclosed already is not really reopened in most cases we're focusing again on the new stuff. Let's do it um another dense one for you, but this is. We wanted to mention some of the types of tiering documents that you've seen and we'll continue to see uh here where we.

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Use conformance checklists again, these.

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All a lot of these look very similar. They look like an initial study. They go through the checklist questions. This one is done to document that that follow-on project just fits Under. The Umbrella of the big picture analysis there's really no change, so it's showing our work. There's no public circulation required for that similar, but slightly different, is an addendum. That's done that follow-on project is making a small change or.

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Doing something a little different or adding a slight piece of property, that's next door, and so there's some changes needed to the analysis, but really we're going through the same kind of document to show that we've thought through it, there's no ramifications, no new environmental impacts and again that does not require circulation.

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You see them as part of the resolutions in the final in the file, but there's no public involvement, necessarily if we, if we do have a follow-on project- and you just saw this with Middlefield Park and North Bayshore- we have a precise plan and we had two big projects coming forward under each of those which were implementing a large portion of them. They had new impacts, they had impacts, and we wrestled with this air quality stuff I'll touch on that in a second um those ones. You have to go through in the IR process.

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Again, when you have a significant impact, that's new! You.

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Through the IR process, but the document can be focused on just those new issues for the most part, um a lot of material, um so in terms of some other thoughts that have come up or things to think about that, we think about, and wrestle with um SQL requires us to evaluate the project at the Baseline conditions. We can't really make a developer an applicant go back and fix the sins of the past, so sometimes we mitigate just back to where it was, and maybe that's not the greatest- that's what we have to do. There's.

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No opinion or suggestion for you on what to decide.

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It's just the environmental facts as.

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We know them in.

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Accordance with the state guidance and the city's guidance in terms of the thresholds and the approach which the thresholds for SQL can be a controversial thing because they're looking city-wide, these are adopted, thresholds and guidance from the state, they're kind of looking City.

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You know city-wide big picture, 30, 000 foot levels, so I might stand here at a hearing and tell you that the impact of noise is less than significant according to the thresholds, if the applicant is going to adhere to the city's standard conditions, but the person who lives next door thinks very differently about that. So that can be a source of frustration for a lot of stakeholders. But we have to kind of do this, based on the guidance that we have.

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Mitigation measures are in the documents I.

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Mentioned those they're a little.

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More rigid than conditions they have to, they have to be proportional, and uh there has to be an essential Nexus between the impact and the mitigation and they're specific to that impact. They can't we can't just keep on things for a very small impact because we want them.

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um Another point, I mentioned very quickly. Is uh deferral of mitigation is a big legal issue for sequa. We have to be very careful with that. We always are especially with these program level documents where we're prescribing mitigation. We have an impact, we need to mitigate it, but we may not know all the details and so I'll use the noise one again. We have a noise impact. We need to prescribe what the levels are gonna, what the mitigation is to get it down to a certain level, but we don't have a site plan.

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Yet for that other piece- and we don't know everything, so we have to prescribe as best we can, what the performance standards are and when those things are going to happen so you'll see that in some of the analyzes, where we're trying to to prescribe what needs to be done, even though we don't have all the info today, a statement of overriding considerations, I think you you familiar with these. This is one of the most important tenets of sqa. Is that uh you can do it anyways right?

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We can just we prepare the eir, we have significant unavoidable impacts. The city can say yes, but we're going to approve this project anyway and that's perfectly fine. This is again just about daylighting the decision making. So the statement of overriding considerations, whether it's needed is in the resolution that comes before you and it basically says. Yes, we know the project has a b and c and d impacts, but it's going to do all these wonderful things for the city and we're going to.

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um These are some just quick, technical issues time. These technical issues are the ones that I'm seeing most often is becoming big focal points on our projects, especially air quality. I talked about that we've been wrestling with that a lot. That's really a function of the fact that the analyzes and the modeling requirements and the Professionals for backmed are getting more and more complicated and specific and they're trying to improve air quality in the Bay area and I'm. Like that's fine, and we also are doing a lot of infill development.

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That's next to other people, and we happen to have a few large ones of those. So we've really been working through that issue on on a few projects, hazardous materials. You know we always want to be careful. What we're putting where and if there's excavation these other ones, Transportation, noise, trees, you're all very familiar with I think those schools is one that I was going to mention is a frustrating one that just came up a couple weeks ago again where the law is very explicit.

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As to that is the mitigation we can require and see what that's it, and so we know that the cost of skyrocketed I would like to see that uh fee amount updated a lot of change to be updated because everyone, the school districts, are always saying, that's not enough, but we our hands, are sort of tied. So anyway, that's one that we often are struggling with these days.

F

The last thing I wanted to say was just my my I think all of our goal. The nice thing about this is the staff me you. We all the Consultants that we work with our entire goal is to make sure that sqa is done appropriately and correctly, so that the city can use it decide and we can hold up against any challenges, happy to be a resource for you and if there's questions after the next part, I will here Eric. Is it going back to.

I

You yeah thank you I'm, just going to say a couple of little things, just kind of bringing it back together and then I'll.

G

Be followed by it by RT to kind.

I

Of close the conversation here, thank you for your patience. This has been a long long conversation for the conversation, support or the conversation to come um just kind of bringing it back to the EPC role and I want to go back to one of the first slides that you saw from from is this this. You know the EPC sees quasi-judicial projects and legislative projects.

I

Guidance for the EPC here is that quasi-judicial you're, acting as a judge, it's an up-down decision there isn't it's not a legislative process where you're, pushing and pulling and providing that kind of qualitative feedback and you're you're, providing that input within the bounds of existing policy.

J

So if there is.

I

A if there is a no you're confronted with a quasi judicial project, we have to provide those specific findings. What standards does it not mean um legislative? There's a lot more opportunity for the EPC to to provide that qualitative input uh to city council of.

C

I

Is all within the balance of council policy a lot of times council is setting the the framework for the project from the outset, um but the, but the council is seeking epc's input on on the best ways to kind of craft that policy um and uh or those standards. Of course, there are other constraints that we'll be telling you about. Things need to be consistent with the general plan, uh state law uh and other inputs.

I

um Of course, uh you know we always try to structure our conversations, our legislative conversation going from broad to narrow, getting input on the big issues first and then narrowing down over time as we work through these projects.

I

um So why the EBC? Why do we bring these things to the EPC we want to get? We want to elevate, get exposure to large projects, uh get more public exposure to projects.

I

The EPC also provides a lot of input for legislation, not just the legislation that you're working on, but as you're reviewing projects it can inform future legislation as well. Even if it's just uh you know, even if it's a quasi-judicial decision that you're that you're looking at um in the as the the city considers uh What uh responsibility is to give to the EPC, we always have to, of course, balance these ideas of streamlining and predictability.

I

um And so um all of this is a you know, a a um a work in progress. We're always trying to get. You know to improve it as we improve our codes and we approve the process of the EPC, um but in in light of that work in progress, I'm gonna, I'm, gonna, tee it over to RT for some final thoughts on on communication.

D

Thank you, Eric and thank you, uh commission, I'm delighted to be here. um You know we think one of the fundamental tenets of this. um This process is our relationship. The staff and commission relationship and I wanted to talk about three key things um that I want us all to keep in mind and for us to get input from you as we as we as you, deliberate and and talk about this. The first is um just meeting process and procedure.

D

um uh Sorry I have to keep taking this off, because I only need it for reading um I uh the the code and the council and the community rely on the Planning Commission for certain matters that come before them, and you rely on us to give you the best information possible. So you can make that decision. So um meeting process and procedures are very important because the commission is is required to consider the matter at hand. The community is trying to follow I think, to the extent that the process is very clear.

D

It helps the community understand how these various decisions fit into the place framework of studies, decision making and it's complex. You know you might have a huge project with different bodies, taking part of that right and it's very important for us to make it very clear to the community about what we're doing here.

D

So that's important. The second is um and I'm asking and we're asking we talked about this. um We've got areas where we feel like we would like the EPC for health um and I'll outline some of these, um because I think a good staff. Commission relationship is built on that. Mutual trust respect.

D

um Obviously, and we have our commission do this, um we want to to review all the materials and come prepared to the meeting. um Ask questions of Staff, ideally in advance, so we can be prepared. um You know Eric's here we're here. Just calls in the email and we're happy to walk through I know that we don't have a whole lot of time to answer a whole lot of questions and, and that's part of our job which I'll talk about that.

D

um So do ask us, because I think the more preparation we can have, the more um information we have ahead of time. We can bring a better response to you, a more prepared response and that I think is going to be helpful for you to the community is watching and to us frankly, because sometimes we're not able to come up with all of the facts and information at the meeting. So that's what we request of you.

D

um It can be very distracting, and this happens with all bodies, including us when you know, when the staff level review, there's a lot of voices, there's a lot of input um and we can help and I think for the commission to focus on their on the big picture on the matter at hand explained to the community, and we can help there too. What it is that you are doing because I think a lot of members don't quite understand the process and for us to all follow.

D

It, makes it simpler and easier for them to understand how these processes put in place. How does the city go about making all of its deliberations so I think that's very important and part of our job is to help you with the chair, be prepared for it and when you give us our questions ahead of time or say, hey we heard about this. We just want to make sure that you can put it into perspective.

D

um You know that's going to be helpful to you right so focusing on the matter at Camp, um obviously, as we taught following the ordinance in the law. Very often these are quadratic quasi-judicial decisions or there might be specific law that says we have to approve this because of this, or here are the mitigations and here's the Nexus right, it's very, very important, and sometimes it's important to explain to the community who might show up and not understand why, right um so, that's I think important as well.

D

um If, if there's a disagreement, but you don't understand why a certain recommendation is made um or a particular conclusion- that staff has come to feel free to ask the more time we have to prepare the more the the better, the answer is going to be, but just ask and sometimes I think that's helpful.

D

Very often, we might have a commissioner say Hey, you know, I I might bring up this question because I think it's important for the community to hear um it'd be it would be good if you, if you prepare a response for it and I, think that's going to be very helpful um and then, before approving an application, I think the commission and staff goes through this. We go through some of these. uh We have to answer the following questions of the affirmative. Is it consistent with the general plan?

D

Is it consistent with the percent and the applicable requirements? Are the environmental impacts reduced or eliminated? Is the Environmental um document appropriate and then is the final decision and recommendations supported by findings of fact and substantial evidence um and I think to the extent uh that it's articulated, sometimes things can get a little complicated when you've got different voices, it's important for the commission and we can help explain why the commissions relationship um so overall I think that's the that's the help and that's the that's the uh that's.

D

What the commission can bring to this process um and I ended with I think almost the biggest part. How could staff help and we want to hear from you uh what we try to do? Quite frankly, is um um we we um it's our job to prepare the background information, the research. The findings make it very, very clear, go step by step by step, as you heard, going through the process to help the commission make its decision.

B

D

Often there will be studies attached. We try to make it helpful because they can be a bit dense with executive, summaries and conclusions. uh You know our tables contain assumptions so that it's very clear to find them and, as we hear from you, we we try to go back and do a better job next time. So I think that communication is going to be very helpful.

D

um What I would say is um good communication with us and how you can be more effective is going to be very helpful, um other responsibilities that we have orienting Commissioners, we notice meetings, we respond to requests for information, we highlight key issues of data or if an issue comes up, we might we might control with the chair and say: hey this new issue came up it. You know, feel free to ask us we'll prepare something for you, because it's something that had not been anticipated um and we post it of course.

D

So we we try to do as much prep as early as possible as soon as we get information so that you're not surprised with any new information and then finally, I would say: um I was going to speak a little bit about the application review, but a lot of it has been kind of explained to you um and in addition to that, I think we are here. We are here to help you strategize.

D

If you are looking for some help on addressing a particular issue, we're here to help you work through it work through the process, so the commission can arrive at a conclusion that they can support. So I wanted to end with that. Just thank you and uh I hope that kind of rounds out the discussion um and helps you um deliberate and and give us give us whatever feedback uh that.

A

For doing that, um and taking the time um so just before we get into the deliberation, we'll take the public comment uh if that taken care of, and then we can jump into our discussion um if any member of the public online would like to provide comment on this item. Please click the race and button Zoom or press star nine on your phone phone users can mute and unmute themselves with star six in the EPC clerk will press the timer and let you know when your time is up.

D

D

So the first one is Cliff Chambers when we are ready to speak now. Thank.

K

You very much um I'm Cliff, Chambers and I'm speaking for myself tonight, but I'm very active with the Mountain View Coalition for sustainable planning.

K

We have regular interface with several advisory bodies to the city council, including environmental Planning Commission, and we're having a discussion at one of our upcoming monthly meetings on how to make advisory bodies more effective in advising city council to achieve their very ambitious work plan objectives and we think there's definitely room for improvement and I, really look forward to hearing from you uh this evening.

K

We regularly comment on development proposals both before the EPC and the city council, and one thing we've noticed is that often the EPC only reviews projects very late in the approval process and I made the point in a letter that I sent earlier today that I think there's opportunities. Perhaps in the pre-entitlement process, like we do with mvcsp, with having discussions with the developer early on in their development, where they provide input, we provide dialogue and I I've often thought that there's more opportunity for the EPC to have something similar happen.

K

The the time spent tonight I really want to focus on what I was hoping that the EPC would do is to review some of the purview that they have in the municipal code, 364410, where the development Agreements are not part of your purview. We've just gone through the experience with the Google uh North Bayshore master plan and uh that document after I had a chance to review it had significant issues. I felt at a policy level that it would have been very good for the environmental Planning Commission to review and I'll.

K

Just give you one example in in the original draft of the development agreement it allowed Google to unilaterally make changes to the phasing plan so that they could, in the original, have an opportunity to pursue office without any residential.

K

There was changes made after we fight an input that uh that at any permit, whether residential or an office building would go forward, but I think there's just a lot and there's a lot of changes that needed to be made in order for us to support the uh master plan which we've supported and we've been involved for literally 15 years. In the precise plans Etc, the development agreement itself is very important to the decision-making process and we'd really welcome your discussion.

K

If you so inclined to see if you agree with mvcsp that it should be part of your review process and and changing the ordinance to allow that as part of for major at least for major projects, you can set the uh the threshold. So thank you very much and I really look for forward to hearing your discussion tonight. Thank you.

E

And the next person is Bruce England.

D

You're you're, okay, to talk now.

C

H

You very much and thank you, chair and Commissioners for having this important meeting tonight.

H

um Bruce England was from Station Drive I would like to first off Echo what Cliff just said: I'm also a long-standing member of mvcsp and I also manage the green spaces, Mountain View group and the Silicon Valley Bicycle, Coalition, Mountain, View local team and, as Cliff said, not only mvcsp, but these other organizations too.

H

We monitor projects through the whole process, so that includes EPC, of course, and also includes DRC Za, the other advisory bodies, the council committees um and also interfacing with staff and developers, and all that leading up ultimately to council approval of projects when it when it goes to that point and the better equipped The Advisory bodies are to review projects.

H

The better we members of the community who are participating in these processes are going to be able to do the work that we do. As you know, members of the community and, as uh was pointed out, including the D.A review and EPC processes, is part of this. It's part of that robust process of your being able to look at all the material, that's relevant to your deliberations on the various projects, but also also um the more that that we can be heard through City processes.

H

You know when we go when we submit letters when we make comments at meetings and things like that, the more that our input can be taken into account, the better and so, as you know, when you get your packets for your meetings, members of the public also get that materials to look at, and so it isn't just in this case the D.A that you would see it, but that we would be able to see it in a timely manner too, and that's everything that's all of the material that's relevant should appear in the packet in a way that the community can do their part to help you and everybody else out with reviewing these important projects that are coming before us all.

H

To look at. Thank you.

A

A

Thank you very much um so now that public comment is over. I will take it to the EPC deliberation and discussion.

A

um I did want to say thank you again for taking the time to have this Retreat I think it. It helps a lot. um There haven't been a lot of occasions and opportunities for us to get together, um there's something about just being in this room versus the council chambers.

A

Also that just feels a little bit less formal, a little more casual where we can just talk and even though I've been on the EBC for a while I'm, not the you know, one of the newest members, I I, found that the information helped me um and in trying to craft to get what we were going to discuss at The Retreat.

A

Today, um I thought it was a good lineup and um you know I'm familiar with the development review process from a professional standpoint and still having it laid out as an EPC member helped me so I'm sure it is probably initiated some questions which was going to be great um and some further discussion.

A

But um one thing I will say and usually I don't address public comments directly, but it's interesting because I after we got the letter earlier from Mr, Chambers and um I was thinking about Eric what he had just said about the quasi-judicial and the ministerial and the discretionary different categories.

A

It became clearer to me even that there are certain levels at which we are examining what's before us, and it wasn't that clear to me even before so sorry the world out there. After years of being on the EPC, it wasn't super clear to me what each of those meant necessarily and how we're approaching each project when they came before us, so that helped a lot but in regards to what the chambers had wrote. I thought it was an interesting thought. Commissioners might want to talk about that. But then I I wanted to find out.

A

Is that something we couldn't even do given that this is the talk of the day anyway, it's like what is in our purview to discuss one not as important, but today's intention is to talk about.

A

You know internal processes and how we can you know function as as we see um aboard and how we can help counsel, uh despite the interesting idea that was presented or uh by the the public I I, don't know that we are even able to because it wasn't noticed as such to discuss that and even more importantly, I think that, because it would change code and how we do things in the city and stuff, you can confirm whether or not this is true that we wouldn't even be able to make that change.

A

Even if we discussed it today so Eric back to what I was mentioning earlier. When you brought up the fact that we could affect future legislative issues, I think it was great that public had brought this up because in the housing element, discussions to come I think there is a chance to look at that process and make give public input and for us to have discussion on that process itself. And it would be great if we knew when that was, and that way the community at large could be noticed and have that input.

A

But tonight unfortunately I'm afraid, if you guys tell me uh confirm that that's not even something we could really even discuss competently and I just want to put that out. There I want you guys know.

D

So well, I'll go back to that. What I said about the communication, part I, think I think we would be happy to take to be happy to take them in his comments. But I can't say we have responses to those right now, we'll be able to take them in um as comments, for example, about the D.A right. If, if there are comments we'll take the met but I can't now respond to, you know how to go about making changes or whether or not to make change.

C

D

Was not the matter that we had agendized with discussion.

A

But even specifically been talking about the EPC and whether or not right we could even.

A

Get a look at the D.A earlier. That is part of the process that has been established and voted off or that the city has. That would take a much larger conversation. It.

D

Would be a much larger conversation, I would say outside of what we agenda is the discussion.

A

D

I would I would focus the commission on the agenda and then, if you carve out a couple of minutes, if the commissioner had a comment or something to say and then we'll take that take.

C

D

As a comment, um uh but we tonight is not a night to make recommendations or decisions, it was just just a conversation and an informational.

A

Session, okay, so I appreciate that, thank you so um just to put that up there, so everyone is understanding um how the format is. Gonna go um all right. Well, I know that people had questions about what was presented. So if we want to just go ahead and start with those questions, that would be great.

L

Thank you, madam chair. Thanks to this team to the staff applying all this information, I think it's sometimes when you look at Retreats like this. You know, we've all been through so many years, but I haven't been a new having been here before for one year and then going through the reappointment process to fill out the four years of this new term.

L

This was very helpful, not just for me, but I, think for the community as a whole, because they can then see the this is the step-by-step process that you all have to adhere to right, and so, when things are presented a certain way on the agenda for certain projects now we know the correlation to them right, the a with the a the B with the B, so that all makes more sense.

L

So I don't have that many questions, but the one question I do have, which I think is important, is in terms of the initial study. When you look at that and you look at a housing proposal or a development proposed, a specifically housing related I saw a bullet point targeting Transportation. So here's my question for you: I was a little confused on that one, because I'm not sure if that also encompasses an analysis of like traffic, that impacts of what traffic could be within the scope of that said project.

L

Do you all factor that in into that as well or is that something separate or how is that even related to what we do.

I

I'll start with a pretty high level um overview because it there's all transportation and traffic come into the process in a bunch of different ways. We also have a representative from Public Works, Renee Gunn, who could get into any more details if you want to. If you want to go there, um but really the the review of Transportation happens um at uh like I said many different levels at the SQL Level under recent state law were very limited to how we can actually remove information.

I

uh The the guidance from the state now is that Transportation impacts is really vehicle, miles, traffic um and so traffic impacts. What we traditionally think of as traffic congestion is no longer a consideration under sequel.

I

However, we have this city process, we call the multimodal transportation analysis and that's where we really look at performance of local facilities and intersections.

C

And weather improvements.

I

Need to be done to local facilities, uh there's also a project level review that happens where we look at the interaction of different um uh modes on the project site, how pedestrians access the site. You know vehicle safety and things like that as well.

I

um So that's the very high level I don't know if um Miss Gunn wants to add anything I.

A

Think I would just add it is really a multimodal transportation analysis. um It's not just Vehicles miles, it's not just loss and intersections. When we no longer had Los underneath sequan. We came up with this new process, the da process. We really wanted to incorporate reviewing The Pedestrian improvements, the bicycle improvements, the mass transit improvements that could happen with a project and so we're looking at all modes of those transportation, and when the project is big enough, we do look at loss and there are times when projects do meet thresholds.

A

That VTA makes us look at Ellen, so we still do follow all of this.

E

um So while SQL no longer considers say a signal uh or uh traffic congestion as an impact, it's still the Project's responsibility to do an upgrade or do some kind of improvement if it's triggered. So it's not that it's just because it's removed from SQL doesn't mean the product doesn't have to address any impacts. It just means that those impacts are being addressed through the project conditions as opposed to sequel, so it's just changing where it lives. But ultimately the project applicant is still responsible for doing those improvements.

L

Awesome and then my second question with family is uh or focuses in more on.

L

Africa I'm. So sorry, um let's go back to my final question, which would be number three. If I remember two I'll, let you know if I'll just maybe email you but um here's the question: I I thought in the beginning, when I joined I know there was a a time to be able to submit questions ahead of time and I thought the process then had stopped.

L

um So uh uh are we able to send in questions and if so, do we just send them straight to you Eric or who do we send it.

I

To yeah absolutely so we, um the uh process that we used to have was where um you would provide comments by a certain date or a certain time, and we would provide you a great comment. Rich written answers, questions and then we would provide written answers. Thank you. uh Buy it before the meeting um for several reasons: uh uh staff Staffing reasons as well, as other reasons we're not able to provide the written answers. We still really encourage you to provide questions.

I

um So if you can provide those send them to me um by all means- and if you know, for whatever reason- I'm not involved or not there, that day, I'll have you send them to somebody else or I'll, be monitoring them and forwarding them to the right people, um and we um we want to be prepared at the meeting so that and and part of the goal of of having the questions ahead of time and and being able to respond at the meetings so that we can have those questions be part of the discussion at the meeting, which is the kind of the whole point of the commission's deliberation as well.

I

So um uh definitely encourage you to provide questions ahead of time. Please don't expect written answers.

L

I

L

Just one clarification say: it's just a one-off email from the individual commissioner, absolutely just like that. There's no CC and have anybody else. It's just individually to.

I

Me, that's all fine yeah.

J

Yeah I was scolded for not copying Sandy. On my questions. Oh.

I

Feel free to copy.

J

Maybe I just ask questions.

I

But feel free to copy status well,.

D

Eric should have been scolded.

I

A

Then I'll just add, then, to highlight it in daylight that took public. Then during the discussion when we're about the diocese. Do we then just say I had this question um and this was the answer provided staff? Is that correct or do you adjust the staff report a little bit or what how you present yeah.

D

I think I think we there's two ways. One is if we think it's a it's a it's a it's a question from everybody. We will address it in that presentation, but sometimes you might, you might say you know, I might bring it up and you might just ask staff simulator. Okay,.

A

So it doesn't matter if you having the answer prepared so that you can give up.

D

Well, it's a better answer right if you have some time to prepare. So that's the point we want to give you the best information. Sorry.

M

So if then, we have to ask the question during the meeting: what's the point of sending it in.

N

M

um It would be along the like, you know, having lost the ability to like send in questions and have those be written. The answers be written which, to be honest, like has more or less had the effect, whether intentional or not of dissuading me from sending in questions, then there ought to be, in my view, some sort of middle point where staff says and that's our staff presentation, and here are the questions that came in we're answering them now like. In what ways is that not achievable.

D

It is achievable. My point is: um if there were questions asked, then we we can, we can address them. uh There might be a question where we will. uh It might be a simple question, sometimes um like oh, how many units below market rate or something like that we might say. Oh it's on page seven of the staff report, in which case we may not need to address it. But if it's a question that we don't have haven't provided information on, then surely we can so it all depends. Yeah, sorry,.

A

I, don't want to jump; no, that's okay, no I, think yeah in thinking out loud I think it is useful in that, because some of our projects are so complex when we ask it right there on the dice. I've realized that sometimes I don't know the answer. I'll have to go, find out from someone or hold on.

A

If there are questions that are um where the answers would help the public health us, um if we can just get it to them, even if they don't have the answer right away, they can then get a more full answer during the time that we're up there, it's discussed and I think that helps the discussion itself. So that might be a big plus yeah I.

A

Just didn't realize that myself, okay, Community it but I'm glad we're having this conversation in general, because I wasn't aware that we could just reach out and say hey by the way. I had this question about this and you know, because we're not all talking together, I, don't know. Who else has that question? You guys will know and you'll say: oh my gosh. They we weren't clear about this.

A

Let's put that out there or okay, that's a good question if I know you're going to ask it on Diet stand, let me just prepare a better answer and have it ready just in case so all around I think it's still it's a win-win.

L

Sure so it's just a follow-up on that, because it's a good discussion, so my previous Point experience with other teams. uh When that would happen, we would submit questions in to the team. um We would get written responses in this case, I'm wondering because it the last year or for a certain period of time. I wasn't really mentioned that we couldn't have questions by now. I must have misunderstood.

L

It's a written response portion that we may not get and when we ask the questions so and it's good if it's come up before in the minutes, I haven't seen them and and if I miss them. I'm. Sorry, but here's my question when and if we would just submit questions from the team, the Commissioners and you all have them ahead of time.

L

um Is the policy then or you're practicing with? Is it or could it be that you could then list in the minutes, send questions that were submitted by members of the commission and then you can point to where in the presentation, perhaps it was answered, or at least the questions posed by the commission, so that people can then see that follow-through transparency of said Commissioners submitted these questions and anticipation of being uh noted for discussion that the deliberations that we're a part of does that make sense. But.

D

Maybe you can answer what minutes are for, but yeah yeah.

I

That's that's good feedback. I will say that we went through a process, probably about 10 or 12 years ago, where um the the minutes uh have been um kind of less detailed um and I. Think the you know it used to be that uh a lot of minutes were just verbatim.

I

You know, like you just every word that was said was written in the minutes um and uh that actually I think um it is actually less accessible to people because you're using the minutes to really get key information about the event right about what got approved. You know what you know was anything added to the approval.

I

um As you spoke, and um you know when you have to go through a 30-page document in order to find that information, it's actually less accessible.

I

um We do have recordings of everything it's all on uh YouTube and and um uh and and legendstar, and all of these other resources um and I believe even in registrar, you can kind of click. The item and you'll go straight to that where that is in the in the agenda um and so I would encourage people to use that if they're looking for you know what was the discussion around a particular question.

L

Okay, so I guess what I'm hearing is that there wouldn't be an option to then list out the questions that was submitted so in the end folks won't know whether or not any of us are mental questions.

D

Well, I think the point of this is to make sure the questions are submitted to provide more information, and so the intent is- and we would flag this in our discussion. This wasn't in the staff report, but we want to highlight this for the commissions you know or in our presentation we might say that right and that's there, um but I, don't think the intent was discard, commissioner. So we did this question of that commissures of it.

J

D

More about is there more information that would help the EPC make that decision, and that's really the intent of our presentation. I.

L

Completely understand we just have different viewpoints.

M

Yeah can I have something like that, so um it my understanding right is that the apc's, like role, is to be the prior to council, maximal, to the best extent possible, stop for public transparency, feedback and input right, um and so then it would seem to me, like the questions that any individual commissioner, certainly collectively the Commissioners have um regarding a project or any other kind of like change within the purview of the discussion on the agenda um is in some sense uh important to the public trust right or at least, is entrusted through the city council appointments as part of the process that ensures that development happens within what is the city trust right, yep, and so then it would seem to me, like those questions, are of public importance, and so for me, this kind of like process of deformalizing, something that is linked to what the public trust is um did feel like a loss and so to the extent that I'm agreeing with commissioner Gutierrez and also not necessarily, you know like faulting anything or anyone for like you know.

M

We were just talking about the vacancies in terms of like Staffing right so like I. Can understand that there are uh practical considerations here in terms of staff's ability to deliver on things like this, um but it just seems to me like the deformalizing of a previously, what felt like an inherent part of transparency that does feel like a loss and so I, don't agree that it has been a net benefit either in our ability to like actually have an informed discussion during the meetings or to the public trust or transparency.

M

I should say to have that be a part of the process that has gone away.

L

I'm gonna, just oh yeah, one last question: I'm, sorry, man so I think the workaround there's a work around I think the workaround is instead of having us depend on our team to help us with that, because the minutes from their perspective has evolutionized during the last 12 years.

L

Right and I can understand that, and perhaps we can just avoid that by just presenting the questions that we've mailed in emailed in once, we've done that to the team as part of what we discussed when we have our questions at the moment here with this board right and then that way we can say well just for transparency sake. Prior to this discussion, I've sent in the following questions and we've factor that into a conversation. I think- and these are the questions man.

A

That was my my assumption in general. Is that we're trying to Daylight more so that and also to get better answers while we're up there, because we only have a limited time and then I don't know about you guys once it gets really late? Sometimes the brain activity just slows down a bit and I want to be as sharp as possible.

A

So if we can just condense things not take away content but get to the meat in the nitty-gritty, quicker I think we'll all be more effective in discussing the pertinent items and getting through more of them, because sometimes I walk away from the meetings and I'm thinking. There are three more things I wanted to discuss, but I just didn't get there. So I think if we have questions prepared for stuff or things that we were thinking of, but we aren't clear and we just let them know. This is what we're wondering.

A

Then, when we get up there, they'll have the answers more readily and faster, and you can just ask them there. Even you know what I mean, so it doesn't take away from content. It doesn't take away from even who asked what it it really is just a matter of allowing them to have the answers faster and more thoroughly. I think that's the the main Crux of this particular item. If, if.

I

You're comfortable with that, then it sounds like that's what it is: yeah, okay,.

A

Well, no, this is great. This is why we have we're having this discussion just to okay success, all right um in general, just bringing things up and being able to flesh it out.

C

A

Believe you yeah.

N

Sorry um first I'd like to say if I come through many of these Retreats, and this was so helpful every time I hear this content I think it reframes the work that we're doing- and you saw my daughter in here earlier and she's, asking like what does this body do and I think one really important takeaway from this conversation is framing how we approach the different types of meetings and when I start out in the kitchen, we used to have study sessions in this room right and there was a signal like this is kind of a working session like we're really digging into it, and that was a powerful signal, as I was figuring out.

N

Okay, what kind of meeting is list versus something else, and so I appreciate that if the staff at staff reports are really explicit in saying this, is the action that's required?

N

I hear what you're saying about kind of EPC being that that really robust opportunity for public comment, but I I've been thinking a lot about our meetings and trying to figure out. How do we describe our full view right like how do we really say like what can we do and what we? What are adjacent issues that are really important, but we might not have that jurisdiction.

J

N

What I, found and I want to be responsive to what I think I'm hearing is capturing the nature of that conversation and I think we've been pretty effective at when we give our feedback to staff. We say we want to characterize like generally support this project, but here are the big areas of discussion and that's how, when I've looked at Council staff reports, they seem to be pretty responsive to that um I will say: I feel like as kind of the a longer serving member I. I know, I ask a lot of basic questions.

N

All the time and I certainly.

C

Don't need those to.

N

Related to staff, so I think if we want in in having the conversation publicly and say you know, I submitted this question in advance like I. Would I would just encourage Commissioners to do that voluntarily, as opposed to saying like we're, gonna share all of the questions that were received because a lot of mine are clarifying.

C

N

Can you do this or not so I, don't know, I see that there's value in attributing it, but um I just I want to make sure that we recognize that our staff I would love. My question to you really is: is it out, like the proportion of your work that isn't EPC right, because I know that we see you on a Wednesday night and you've done a ton of preparation but work?

N

We all have lives and jobs outside of us and I I just try and be respectful of the time that you all are putting into this, because it's it's not insignificant to prepare for these meetings and I. Think seeing those vacancy statistics makes me very anxious for the city right like we want to keep good staff.

N

We want to have really thoughtful planning and we do that by having a functional relationships with our staff, so that doesn't feel adversarial and it doesn't feel like there's a gotcha question or something at the end, and so I think that that's what I think the purpose of this is is to to recognize. Where can we better communicate when we're having questions so that these guys, who have probably sat.

H

Through a council meeting right the night before had other commitments.

N

Aren't aren't scrambling and able to and get the information that we we want to make better decisions.

N

Yeah just be helpful. Like I I, don't I know Eric, you are our designated staff, but I'm sure like in terms of EPC, is percentage of your workload like I mean there's, probably a lot more. We don't have visibility into.

I

Yeah I mean I, think you know it. It obviously depends on the item um and I think yeah, there's so much work that comes from other people who are presenting it. So it's um you know, I think it can't possibly put a percentage on how much I do but um but yeah it's it's.

I

um You know we um and it definitely depends on the items that we're bringing forward. You know some of them are more, um you know, have a lot more, a lot more work life. That's.

A

For sure well, I I know there are more questions, so um I'm gonna, let Vice chair, Dempsey and uh ask and then we'll come to yeah.

O

Yeah so I had a question: that's off this particular topic, but fine, maybe I'll just go Pine for 30 seconds on the topic and then I'll I'll Hopscotch over um this has not been an area. That's been too difficult for me in that I I find that I ask you know a mixture of questions that, where I get a good substantive answer and I'm like oh, we need to talk about this at the hearing and then there's a lot of questions where I'm like oh I'm such an idiot.

O

Why did I ask you that Eric's, like it's in the staff report like I, don't need that that doesn't need to go out with me, um but it's actually worked pretty well for me like. If, if you know, I've got a substantive question, you give me a good answer. That I think is interesting. I'm, like yeah I'll, ask this again tonight. If you don't end up covering it voluntarily in your presentation and I think that system's worked pretty well right uh and it definitely gets a better answer. If I.

H

Tell you a day in.

O

Advance and I'm going to ask it, and so I've actually been really happy with how that's worked so for what it's worth, um if it's, okay I wanted to ask a couple questions just about the Matrix study.

O

um I'm, really excited about the major study. I was nerding out as you were, as you were talking about it, I love, it I, absolutely love. It I think it's such a great thing that you were doing it I'm excited to see more of the details about it to see some of the results that come out of it. Actually, that was part of what I wanted to ask about.

O

um First off, did you Benchmark against any other, like neighboring or relatively equal sized cities.

E

Yeah, so some of the assessment um that Matrix does is based on best practices from this region or from the state, so they do look a little bit more globally or broader. How.

O

Did we Stack Up.

E

Depends on the area like there's a particular item: um how much we get uh feedback about our processing timelines, we're actually not that different than a lot of our adjacent cities, yeah that are similar in size. There are ways we're worse in certain categories or types of permits than others and there's others where we're better so I think uh part of this study. We're really trying to look at it all collectively.

E

O

Of the things, I hope, I'm sure, you've shared publicly some documentation on The Matrix study and some of what you found. I assume yeah.

E

So the report is actually and I think we might have linked it in the memo. But it's we have a web page dedicated to an actual report itself and all the detailed recommendations, and then this summer, as.

H

Part of our new website.

C

You know pages that.

E

We're developing will also have more information about where we're at with all of each of the recommendations. So that will also be on a web page that we're developing as well cool.

O

Yeah, whatever I think what I would end up asking for I guess what I would love to be able to do? Is you know just periodically?

O

Have you just tell us us, like hey here's, how we're tracking on our core metrics that we laid out for what we think of support like our response time and whatnot I like I, love, dashboards, I, think dashboards are really useful tools um and so I I would just my ask would be I think it would be really useful for us to periodically just hear kind of what our core metrics are like how we're doing as a city that would be really valuable for me, because then it's a little easier for us to go.

O

Oh wait. Wait something's, clearly wrong we're not trying the right way. What's going on guys, that's really about it. It's at least to me and I'd be very excited about that. Yeah.

E

And that's a great point, I'll just add on to um so part of what the Matrix study that we do specific Outreach with the development community, so our regular developers that we work with um so we did start off with our first meeting late last year, and actually that was one of the comments we heard from them as well. Is this ability to see our performance I'll call it performance metrics for lack of a better word, um and so uh we will be pursuing.

E

You know the technology that supports, like the dashboard type you know framework um and having that stuff available online, a lot of it's tied to us getting a Land, Management System, um whether it's embarrassing or not. We do not have here and a lot of our adjacent cities do and what a land management system does for those not familiar with it. It's a very robust system that it uses GIS as the backbone, so everything can be pinpointed to particular properties and addresses and then allows us to connect all of our permitting information.

E

Business license information, pretty much Utility Billing, anything under the sun. We can tie into this system and everyone in the city can see it and have universal access. It also allows us to potentially have public interfacing pages on websites with information about properties, so that is something we are going to be kicking off, but that process is like a three-year process to implement that, and as part of that, a dashboard component is something that could come out of that as well, so I think it's definitely something we're interested in pursuing and having available. That's.

O

Wonderful news and, to the extent that part of what we were talking about tonight is purview. I. Think one of the places where you know our purview can be helpful is when it comes to some of the process stuff, because we can draw attention to places where we getting stuck or where we have external problems or whatever, but that's a place where I hope you might invite us in more um because I think that's.

O

Hopefully we can be helpful because I think it's important, but but Bravo by the way, Bravo City Mountain View for all the work that you all did to get this far.

J

J

Can just do a few of them.

J

um Do you really have 80 people in the room.

D

A

A zoom room: oh that's, a gallery.

D

um 80 to 100 and.

E

It depends on the Staffing, so.

J

Part of the community feedback that we got is one of the things that I struggle with is you talked about SB, 35 and 330, and this or that permit streamlining um it seems like the the state in an effort to move everything faster, is in fact making it harder to get more comment on things earlier.

J

Can you you mentioned SB 35 and an isp330 has three things: I know if there's a bill to extend history, 330 and 35, but can you talk about? What's the maximum number of meetings that were that are allowed and under the permit streamlining process? Is that what is that so I mean the committee says we want APC to look at this. Well, that seems to me like that might be a touch point that now we actually can't do so. Can you help me understand what we can do within the law?

J

What reviews are permitted because, like DRC counts as a meeting.

J

Help me understand: maybe I don't know if you have a chart that shows what meetings are allowed and what aren't and are they different for SB, 35 or 330, and the permit Sterling process.

I

Well, I'll start I'm sure other people can fill in more of the details Tom. So uh the there is a five meeting limit for residential projects. I.

H

G

It's under sp330.

I

G

Five meeting limit and.

I

That that five meeting limit um shot clock- if you will starts at project completeness so once a project has submitted a complete application. So one of the ways that we get efficiency is we do some neighborhood meetings and DRC meetings and things like that before the project is even submitted a complete application.

I

um So that's all during the um kind of assembly of information phase.

I

So we can get input of these public meetings and this conversation and this this um this iteration, even before the five meeting shot clock, starts um once the um the uh project is complete, though there are five meeting limit, um usually what that means is DRC and either EPC or za and Council. So unless the item is continued or um is a special circumstance, uh we don't get to.

J

That I think study.

C

I

Well, the study.

C

Sessions would usually.

I

They would count if they were after project.

J

So everything that we see at a study session is not deemed.

I

Like generally, that's the case, yes, uh I'm, not saying that it's impossible that it might never happen that that you might see a study session, that's a complete application. Of course we get more flexibility with non-residential projects um to do so. um But I don't know if you want to add anything.

E

Yeah I would just add so the completeness factor, it's a little tricky, because it's based on really oftentimes how Savvy the applicant team is who's submitting and if they're submitting and responding comprehensively um people can get there quicker than others, but I think, as as uh Mr Anderson highlighted, uh we usually go to study sessions pretty early on in a project. So usually it's not a complete application.

E

um I will follow up on sp-35, so that is more of a streamlined process um and for SB 35 there is no public hearing.

E

um That is the decision that's made uh at the community director development director level, um and so for that there is sort of a shortened timeline to review for completeness a lot of SP 35 is about tribal consultation, which I think.

E

um Maybe somebody had a question about that or not, but um it introduced a mandated process for us to consult uh the Native American Heritage commission and for us to send out information on the project to Native American tribes that are sort of registered in this area and see if they identify or have any concerns with this particular location being sensitive to any um artifacts or other physics.

E

That may be in this area that are sensitive to their tribal group, so we have done that, for example on the lot um Lot 12 project right here we did that consultation, we've done it on the other sp-35 projects as well, um and so far um our Communications with the tribal. You know, consultations have been pretty straightforward um and mostly they just want to have some oversight um during excavation and Grading and stuff, but so that process is kind of a slightly different than our other classes.

J

Can you so you mentioned a number of meetings, but how is there they have to have those meetings have to happen within yeah two days 50 days for.

D

J

Are there different requirements, I'm trying to understand? What's the.

D

C

D

Are no public hearings? It's just a it's just a decision. I.

J

Think that's over pretty Spirit.

D

Sb 330 there are five years yeah.

J

That's they have to happen within a certain amount of time.

E

So SB 35 there is a time limit in which the city has to provide a final, a final final decision, so that one has a very quick timeline. I believe it's 90 days, 90.

D

D

And 180 I think so it's a very quick turnaround time to review the project and right comment. Yeah.

E

And then for sp30 330, it actually defaults to the permit streamlining act which the permit streamlining act. um Aside from having the 30-day rule about the city constantly providing responses in 30 days of getting submittals once it's deemed complete, we actually have, depending on the level of review required for under sequa. We also have a timeline in which we have to finish the SQL process and finish all of our documentation, depending on the level of SQL.

E

Dirs are given the longest timeline you know, cat exempt are not or shorter timelines, and then, once we've completed the environmental review process, we actually have anywhere from depending on the level of review, I, believe it's anywhere from 30 to 180 days to actually act and make a decision on the whole picture of the project in sequel,.

J

hmm Hello sequence.

J

O

G

C

J

It seems like why to see places yeah.

O

J

I'm still trying to figure out what its purpose is sure sure, because I'll be quite every Candace. What do you yeah I have raised things that to me look like a real issue and I've been told. It is staff's determination that this is not an issue and basically I'm Sol and so and I. What I heard was, at the end of the day, Council can say tough, we're going to do it anyway. So why do we? Why is this? What was the purpose for putting this? Was there had to be something behind this.

F

It really and it's 50 years old now, and so really the original intent when it was enacted in 1970, was to Daylight this. This is part of the decision process, because back then now we have plenty of involvement, plenty of questioning plenty of commenting right, there's talk of SQL reform and it being a hindrance and a hurdle at the time it was created.

F

There was a real outcry and a need to include this as part of the decision-making process and for agencies to be held accountable, that they were what they were doing if they had at least thought through these issues. So that's really how it germinated um it's it's a very interesting, wonderful and maddening business to be in, for the reasons you just mentioned, where and I use the Los as a great example, because level of service is what we hear a lot of comments about from the public and other stakeholders, that's what they think.

F

Now we tell you. Oh that's, not a situation anymore. We turn a blind eye. You could deal with that somewhere else, and so it's very frustrating in that sense because it has been Cuba, has become more convoluted and complicated over the years as the state adds. More exemptions, carve outs, special situations, and so it has. It has become a bit a bit of what you're talking about so I understand that, but it really did originate from wanting to disclose and identify and consider some of these issues as part of a decision-making process.

F

It's really weird is.

J

There, a world book someplace, oh yeah, and by that I mean yes, staff says this is not an issue. I'm like it is damn. It show me that it's not and so I I what I want I'd love to see a little book that says at this. At this point it becomes an issue, and this is not, and so I can just I.

F

Brought it just in case where.

J

Do I get it? Okay can I just find it very frustrating because in order to object, I would I think there are I said I have to. We have to State a find, do a finding and print all this stuff, and so here we are in a meeting with seven of us and we're supposed to do a binding. That says: oh, we don't agree with staff, it's kind of like right.

J

um It's it's! It feels it's been frustrating because things that I look at and say I, don't understand how this is not an issue and you're saying to me: it's not an issue who says it's not an issue, and if it's all in here uh I'm gonna get the right I'm gonna.

H

Write this down and go buy one of these.

J

Things because I don't I some of these things just make no sense to me and is it and is this the 2023 has this come out every year, yeah.

F

That's our that's our little a Bible book for our industry that comes out every year.

D

From the agency, there are 20 other things in addition to this book.

F

um They're right yeah.

D

It makes you feel better.

C

D

Think to be the technical expert, so you know yeah, um but what what we? What we want you to do is ask us the questions about. You know if you've got a question about thresholds. You know why is this reaching this conclusion?

D

um I think that's what we're here for, but we're always happy um outside of the meeting when you have to make a decision. If you want more information about you know there are, there are training seminars there. There are things to help the commission learn more about it, but I just wanted to say I I, don't think the commission should feel like they're the consultants and the technical expert who has to kind of make that that technical determination but I think it's it's good that you ask us the question because it can be very puzzling.

D

uh You know why the conclusion is reached.

A

And I I wouldn't say, then you know don't say anything I think that's the purpose of sequence to highlight it. If you have an opinion on it, please say it. That's part of what we're doing I, think and even if it gets by six other members and an entire Council doesn't matter, you've got to say it. That's that's the rule. I think so. I'm.

J

Just trying to figure it out, San Francisco denies a project because it might affect the Filipino neighborhood, yeah and outside of Tulare, where there's now, cities that are under water, they determined that there was no water risk in the area where they built an entire Housing Development, that's in a freaking Lake again and it just they don't it doesn't I, don't know how to evaluate when I'm reviewing an ear and you're asking us to approve it they're times where I go through it and say how am I qualified to determine whether this is a good document or not?

J

And that's that's ultimately, my question I look at these things and say: okay, you're.

H

J

It's not an issue. Help me understand: I, don't have how do I, how do I say yeah you've done it right, because I look at it like this makes no sense to me and I have no I, don't want to ask you for 50 items in an eir. If you could tell me this tell me this tell me this tell me well because I just that's!

J

So, if there's a comment on how to improve the communications, it would be. You know help when when something seems controversial provide more context around why that doesn't fall into a criteria within SQL. That says it's not a significant impact because I look at these things, I'm like boy. That feels like a significant impact to me and I'm, not talking about the person sitting next door, sure sure, okay, but I, just Etc, so help me help me understand how to assess an eir better, because I have more.

O

J

One occasion felt like yeah sure it's I guess I should approve this, but I. Don't.

D

I I think really the commissions as a commissioner. We wouldn't necessarily be relying on you to go toe-to-toe with the technical exports, but, more importantly for you to understand the point of sequel, how are these technical studies prepared and how do? How are the conclusions arrived at um and I? Think it's best done not when you're right under the gun, trying to approve a project but more as I want to go to a session to learn more about sequel. How is this done? How are these determinations made that might help you a little bit more?

D

You know understanding why these determinations are made because um I would even say we are not the technical exports on some air quality analysis and we're asking the same questions and because we ask them often enough and we're in the details.

D

We understand that better and we can certainly help you with that, um but it could start with some training on SQL, for example, or you might be interested in air quality, and you might want to go, learn more about that or the ever-changing rules that that the region is coming up with and that might help you better understand the conclusions that staff is coming to, uh because it's all very methodical, it's very technical, it's very detailed um I, think I think now they cost cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, Consultants time and reams of virtual pages to go through.

D

So um if it makes you feel better we're not we're not asking you to be the technical consultant, but I think asking us about how these conclusions are derived. What the thresholds are I think are very valuable questions and maybe Eric we can. If you you know, if you could reach out to Eric, we can point you to certain trainings.

D

um You know they're available now on Virtual team you're not to drive to you, know Bakersfield for a training, and so it will totally help.

F

I would encourage that and I would encourage you've done this. Commissioner, a few times over the years where you have made questions like that at the at the meetings and I welcome the opportunity to get up or for one of the staff folks to explain that, and there are a lot of nuances and things that have taken Twisted turns in Sequel. What happens very quickly is case law determines the next pivot of of how we do things, and so some of the things I think you're, alluding to where we say well.

F

The impact on the project is not important anymore, but it seems important. It's a big issue for the development. Those are the kinds of things. I would absolutely encourage you to ask us at the meeting to clarify I'd, be happy to jump up and do that any of us and then there we could also do a deeper dive on SQL like this, where we get into some of the specific issues like that and go forward, but you're absolutely right. Your observation is completely true lawyers.

F

There are lawyers Consultants the whole teams of Educators that spend decades on on following this, to try to keep it straight. Yeah.

D

And we we spend a lot of money on legal consults too, because we're asking ourselves these questions and I would just append to John's question. Ideally it. Let us know a little bit before so John can be prepared.

F

That would be a great podcast.

D

uh Because you're right, the question might come up and go. You know we're hearing about this issue but I'm reading. This conclusion I would like you to spend a little time explaining it to us why you reached that very valid.

I

D

B

I

More thing I had to bringing it back to one of the early things that Mr Schwartz said at the beginning of the call is that one of the purposes behind sequa is to have this interaction between Professionals in state government and local government. So there is a lot of review by Caltrans review by state agencies that really understand you know. Groundwater contamination and review by um you know different levels of of professional experts and so you're not expected to be the technical professional expert.

I

But you are expected to witness that inner interaction- and you know it happens through letters that.

C

I

With the final eir, they they get sent drafts things like that. So it's not just you know, staff saying here we promised this it's. It's is coming from a whole interaction of different different agencies and groups, and then further I'd just like to go back to the example of VMT and Los, which is something may not be an issue to sequel, but it can still be an issue for the city and we have an opportunity through the legislative. You know, through the city council process, local legislative process to set up.

I

You know what are those local issues and what are those local standards that go be you.

J

Know that live outside of Seymour we can always continue to do um next question and I. Don't know if there's anybody else, there have been long enough. Maybe Mr Clark has been around.

J

Busy in San Francisco and the Planning Commission in San Francisco are very different. Planning Commission has much of the ministerial Authority that was granted years ago to the ca here. Why was that done.

J

I think I'm going to defer that to Mission.

D

I'm not very familiar with San Francisco requirements, but um I can tell you that the EPC has a very special place in Mountain View and it's very unique in the charter and and I think I. Think the city was very forward-thinking, I mean I, don't know any city of Versailles that has 24 precise plans to be quite Frank.

D

um You know and there's a lot of advanced planning, work and long-range planning work that our city does, um that many many agencies and jurisdictions come to us and they go. Sometimes we just copy our stuff and that's really where the EPC does its best work and I. Think in recognizing that um many other commissions really don't I mean I, know communities that may have one specific plan.

D

If that, at which point the the commission might just review conditional use permits- or you know just simply quasi judicial matters, but our Charter and our studio is set up very difficulty and I. Think the evolution of our city and the focus on long-range planning, very heavy and as.

C

D

You have many many items on your agenda and I think the what I'd say is that the goal and the vision of the city and apc's role in it is is reflective. Much harder.

D

I can't speak for other cities. um I can tell you San Francisco is not considered The Shining to all of us.

D

Yeah I don't think they were on the best one resources list and so I think we we're always trying to strive to make sure we've got very forward thinking long-range planning and we're constantly trying to balance this customer satisfaction.

D

And what I've seen Mountain View do, quite frankly, is is do its best work with precise plants, that's where the bulk of the community input is and I I was actually on the panel in front of the city where they were asking me. How? How can you all do the kind of work you do and I said it's because of the forward planning? That's where the community is involved? That's what the Community Vision is. That's where the community gets to see the whole plan. So when individual projects.

H

D

There's support for it because they know that these active transportation of parks or the grocery store are going to follow right and and so what I'm, what I? What I want to say is Mountain View, I, think exemplifies kind of that balance um and we're able to do more things.

D

Staff level, because the commission has has done the heavy duty thing, creating very robust long-range documents.

E

I'll just add real, quick, there's, actually quite a quite a similar setup, so the city of Redwood, City, City of Sunnyvale um and there's one more I'm blinking out on um San Mateo. A lot of them have the zoning administrator structure as well similar to ours and.

C

A lot of it, too, is.

E

um In balancing the long range with the current, um really the most sustainable way to do, that is the structure we have with the Za and so our permit volumes. Well, we may not be the same size population wise as maybe the city of Redwood, City or city of San, Mateo or even Sunnyvale.

E

A lot of our permit activity is the same, our volume of development. So we have various structures to how they're structured.

J

J

As well as someone who's fighting, the zoning in San Francisco, um their Jazz system is it's been invaluable. I can go in and find it. I can bring other people to it. When I went into the planning department, they were able to pull up exactly what I was referring to when I reached out to the Board of Supervisors. This this, the assistant Supervisor, was able to fight exactly exactly what I was pointing to, and so, if you want a model that works, I mean nothing else Works in San Francisco, but there you can find out.

J

Why they're denying your permit, no matter what the ridiculous reason is very clearly very quickly. So it's it's! It's a good system.

J

D

J

Want to Circle back a little bit gutierrez's comment, so the theory is that things like YouTube, replace the the minutes put freaking bookmarks in YouTube I. Don't want to have to go through a four-hour meeting to find over. This topic started at four hours and 23 minutes into the meeting to get there council's even worse because they got so many different things.

J

So hard I mean if, if we're going to use YouTube as a place for people to see and hear this feedback put bookmarks in, so we could see where you know, we can jump to the topic which we're interested in quickly and and actually go in and see that discussion. The questions that are getting asked because, having a forearm meeting as a block- and you got to go forward, saying hey, what are they talking about? You'll, listen to it for several minutes to even figure out what this?

J

What subject it is, and then you get okay and it's it's YouTube in theory, can be a replacement for the detailed minutes, but by putting in it as a single. This is the meeting it's not accomplishing that today. So that would be good news.

A

Bookmarks, at least for the agenda items yeah.

I

Like when it starts there is, there is a tool uh through if you, if you find the meeting and the media of the meeting through the uh the agenda system, right the registrar agenda system, then that will take you to.

D

Another module.

J

Epc, you talked about this topic and it was on this day. They don't have access to register.

D

A

Does not everyone knows to go through there.

C

C

D

Just highlight that for the public we'll make it more accessible, I I think that the technology is there, but you're right, we'll make it yeah.

J

A little thing on it says a little thing in the slider that says: okay, there's next topic: okay,.

A

Commissioner Clark did you have any questions.

G

I guess there was well one question and it just a highlight something: that's come up a few times now and we discussed it around. You know VMT and SQL, but there are other things that we have. You know just because it isn't a significant impact doesn't mean that we're tracking it.

G

We talked about traffic, but there are other things that I'm only bringing this up, because the public loves to bring this up all the time and probably with each of us individually, when we're up talking to folks that you know well what about you know what about the sewer system? What about fire and police? What about have you thought about all these things and um well?

G

Some of those are categories that are um looked at in the sequel, something even has to go through SQL review, um I think Eric, as you pointed out before, like we have, we have our own, you know we're tracking cumulative impacts and public works and others are thinking ahead around okay. Well, yes, this wasn't a significant impact, but you know we're monitoring. You know the the pavement conditions and the traffic these intersections.

G

We know when we need to do signalization upgrades like we did along Shoreline and Grant Road, um and so I I, but I, but most of those are the broad categories. I think are like you know, traffic um I mean we. We do work with the schools on. You know how what what generation make rates might be, even though we don't directly control um that process.

G

We share information um utilities like those are all categories that we and some of those plans actually come before us, like the most minor things that we can align on over time and talk about, um but I just wanted to I just want to I guess the question is I'm right there that you know we we track those things over time. It's just not maybe on a project by project right. So it's more of a cumulative.

G

What is the current status and what do we think the status will be three years from now, based on what our precise plans and other planet documents say,.

I

Yeah, it's actually a very multi-faceted process. um We've just finished a utility series of utility master plans to kind of plan out the long-term needs for water sewer, storm water, I'm sure um say more about that. But then we also iteratively update those as new development projects come through and we can do that through the SQL process, because there is a utility uh kind of Topic in the SQL process. We.

C

Can also do it outside the.

I

Sequel, so it's this constant um kind of reinforming reinforming, our projections and our updates, and so it's very well planned it's. You know it's. It's very long. um Long View.

A

Just to expand a little bit on that for sewer in the water in particular, is that you know when a new project comes in through the process as Hagen describes. You know it's getting routed to to Public Works to Land Development. We rounded out to different divisions, we're looking at every one of those projects to determine whether or not what you need to do a sewer and water capacity.

A

So we do those big studies with General plan with each of the precise plans. So we can see what we're going to need to support the growth that happens in those areas. Those big studies then feed into the CIP and then, when these individual projects come in, we go. Does it really match?

A

What's under the general plan and the precise plan and our Public Services folks look at it too and they know, and they have an idea of where we have problems and if there's a project that they're like we know we're having deficiencies in this area or it's a place that one of those initial studies or those master plan Studies have said and have problems.

A

We do an additional study to make sure that this particular project isn't going to have negative impacts on it.

G

And then, if it's and that all works really well within the general plan, the precise plan process. But if there's something like a large gatekeeper project that comes through then because there's then we can extract all sorts of things as part of that. So if we think they're going to break whatever existing infrastructure we have, and we can require them to put that in correct and make sure yeah exactly.

I

And that's true, too, for water supply. I know that people get really worried about. You know: oh we're, building all this housing where's, all the water going to come from. You know we do these uh every few years we do their water management plan uh and that informs our our the water that we are going to need for projected development and that that whole process is iterative as well with water supply assessments as well. So it's all very well documented and studied.

I

A

M

um Thanks so uh I'm also going to refer back to that Matrix study, I'm, sorry, I, totally missed I forgot your name. um Second, okay, um I think we as part of the slideshow. It was noted that there was 290 responses um which may imply to 290 respondents but yeah I guess. uh My first question here is um what was like the general profile of the individuals. Responding to that survey like who.

E

Who were they so? The survey went specifically out to people who listed themselves as the applicant so that can range from a property owner. It can range to oftentimes an architect or some other Contracting professional, and then we also included the property owner owners as well. So that survey went to both yeah.

M

And then I presume that the folks from The, Matrix Group would have provided, if not personally, identifiable information which obviously right leaving that aside a maybe like a nice pie, chart saying 70 were single-family homeowners, thirty percent were XYZ right like did they. They provided that I'd.

E

Have to go back and look I can't remember if they had people self-identify or not as part of the survey. The survey was um distributed, uh sort of and gathered anonymously, but I do think they had traffic. Okay,.

M

All right yeah, um my presumption. This is going to be I, guess an assumption too. um It would be good. You know at some point to understand like where those respondents came from, but I guess before stating my assumption I I. My curiosity here is um with regards to like the customer service, I guess I'm, just wondering like um who are the customers that occupy take up um most of like staffs, resourcing time like attention.

M

um What is the kind of General profile of who that kind of customer is yeah.

E

It's a great question: um it's mostly uh single-family homeowners and small business owners, and it's where we're trying to frame a lot of the content on our website is geared towards those parties as well. Okay,.

M

Cool um that is very helpful to know so then, in terms of uh kind of, like other comment of thinking here, um one of the just for my general curiosity, um one of the things that we noted was kind of like not just like staff, availability or turnover, or what have you but I guess like just broadly speaking, um like staff, resourcing um or resources available to the city as well. um I guess I'm curious, like uh is there someone or is it typical for planning departments, Community Development departments?

M

However, you know that typical Vietnam, because you might go um you know, do we currently have someone who is dedicated more closely to like assessing operational efficiency and project management, not on a like application by application basis for a project, but more just like, broadly speaking, you know constantly like reviewing analyzing assessing. Is our program being efficient um and if not you know here are like the recommendations. Do we have someone like that on staff like it's a.

E

Dedicated role so right here so yeah great question, um I would say: there's a couple parts to that. So one of the recommendations from The Matrix study was to create a position in which we did, which is my position now so part of my um I was promoted last year into this position as assistant director. My focus um is really working on the development interview process, so it's really working with all the Departments to try and look at our processes.

E

So um I guess at the head is me, but I would say in terms of planning. Specifically, we have two different Deputy zoning administrator positions, so one is, if folks are familiar with Rebecca Shapiro, she heads up our development, Review Committee, and so her focus is heavily on design. She works a lot with across the whole planning team on on design related things, this other role that we recently recruit. We went through recruitment process for and we're still going through kind of that recruitment process.

E

This was my prior position really is focused on supporting the planning team as a whole, working on project management, skills, helping them problem solve and sort of look at processes improve and process improvements, improvements to handouts, information, online sort of all of that stuff, that's related specifically to planning, is really the focus, a primary role for that position.

D

In this position, um kind of chairs the the P the project, Coordinating Committee again is responsible for the timelines.

D

um I think I would just say- and I have to say this because Lindsay in her role as dza did a lot of this work of updating our application forms making sure we got from that 57 to 94, helping people understand timelines and it took a lot. We've got 80 to 100 people in the process and everyone needs to be brought along and Renee can tell you.

D

She's got her own work as the representative for public work. She has to coordinate with all the different departments and division, all the divisions in our department. So it's a very complicated process. Housing now is brought in because um you know with some projects that they're tearing down units we have to then say this is exactly the replacement unit. This is the process you go through, so it's become extremely complicated and you're right. You know we need somebody who's constantly watching the process, so Lindsay oversees it.

D

The dza and planning is the permit navigator for planning. We have a deputy building official in building so recruiting right, who will be responsible for the permit navigation building and our principal engineer. Public Works is the permit Navigator there, so Lindsay kind of oversees and they're the primary, the biggest Heavy Hitters you know, and so um we have that and then the in team is basically to unstick and unknot problems that they can't solve right. So we've got a very kind of a multi-pronged uh approach to making sure the process is smooth. Well.

M

That's amazing because you know if it was recommended as part like a study, and you know you've kind of like stood up this essentially like new function and, in effect helping us innovate on a you know, like efficiency level. You know. That's definitely like you know, props to you for that. um So I I guess I'm curious.

M

um You know in terms of not necessarily, although I am curious, but um around like the projected like growth in terms of this function and other ways that it's going to add value beyond what you know because I imagine, if it's doing well, this function right, we would want to like explore Avenues to like increase or the impact in the reach of the battle you're, adding um but I guess like I'll, just narrow it specifically to you know. I am wondering um now going specifically to that staff like retention piece as well.

M

um How much uh does your role um have the ability to uh either directly impact or um if, indirectly, you know carry through um initiatives which would directly impact the site of Staff retention, um such as whether it may be? You know wages um like hours worked, um you know, I think there was like a crazy article.

M

I read about city of Los Altos and like before they work week or so right like to what extent is the human side of you know like staff and that resource in terms of the city's ability to look at these review uh at these projects in a timely basis? uh To what extent does your role and function um have any purview over like The Human resourcing Side of that.

B

So I would say a couple things.

E

Some of the stuff you're getting you're hitting work like that were City, can allow us to have alternative work, Styles or just.

M

Like one example right.

E

um So we actually have an employee survey. We do city-wise the manager's office um and that's really looking holistically at what opportunities the city as an organization can support in addressing uh various sort of employee issues.

E

um So we have that process that we go through a survey every couple years and that gets assessed, and you know changes come out of that, um so that there's that process in terms of the department in general I think some of the you know vacancies and other things. A lot of that's happening across lots of Industries, not just the city. You know public sector um and so I. Think for us I know: we've been talking lately about just a lot of it's sort of.

E

How do we come back together as a team in person now that we're now functioning in this sort of telecommute world or hybrid schedule World, and so we are definitely as a as a department and also we're looking to do more cross-departmental interactions, team building events and things like that, where we're getting sort of outside of our computers and looking and interfacing with each other and sort of building up that Rapport again, which is really important and I. Think kovid really had an impact on that.

E

um So there's sort of that piece which uh uh you know um we sort of coordinate with the different divisions and departments, and do that um and do team building events um moving forward into sort of um you know future future and the upcoming budget and other things like that. We are looking to do more cross-departmental um team building.

E

So that really, if you can build a stronger team across the different departments, um then really it was, it does reflect in the work right reflects in how we communicate and how we interact not just with each other but but applicants.

E

So we are looking to do a lot more of that um and team building sort of not just about the nuts and bolts about what we do, but really, how can we better communicate with each other and sort of understand all of our positions and what we are responsible for and how that impacts the project? So that is definitely stuff that we're asking for as part of the upcoming budget. We hope to continue to do as we move forward.

D

I'll add a couple more things: um I think, a few years ago we went into we looked at reorganizing the planning team, just to make sure that the workloads were manageable um and that's why we have now uh um Eric the long range manager and a principal planner to help him, knowing that we're going to have to pull in planners to work on long-range projects and the two dcaas and I think it's really helped, um and this year our city manager has been very supportive of us trying to reorganize the building team, because that was very flat.

D

And when we look at the number of permits coming through it's clear to us that we need more of an organizational structure to three distinct teams. You know an inspection team, the fire team. You know they do all of the fire inspections and the fire of my checks and then, of course, on the permit team itself um and and learning the new system learning a more a better project management approach.

D

um So all that's kind of on our plate and Lindsay's going to help do that at the same time that we're trying to do this new um e-permits MB system. For planning in public works and um start at least begin the process to do a Land Management. So a lot going on and I'm I'm just proud to say that yeah we're probably one of the few cities that have a position dedicated to this. So thank you for asking.

M

Yeah yeah, it seems like a very good uh and Innovative approach. There, um I, not I, guess two more lines of crushing and may very likely. Gonna relate back to this um very likely, uh so I am curious as well. So the last item, in terms of like you know that we um discussed in a public meeting, was like the North Bay Shore project, which obviously is like crazy, huge, like almost like makeup project right.

M

um One of the things that I'm curious about is um where public benefits fall um within the scope of the development review process um and who essentially um takes the lead within the department on uh interfacing with applicants with regards to um what some might call a negotiation around that, um and one of the reasons why I'm just kind of like even thinking through this in regards to this discussion. Is you know if we're talking about like staff resourcing and we're talking about?

M

Like you know our ability to have to come almost like innovate to be able to deliver on a lot of the servicing that we have to do.

M

um You know it in my mind, maybe I'm totally mistaken or name around how it might work from the other end right when I'm just using the Google and Latin lease project as a very handy reference here, it would seem to me like um for a project of that type.

M

um There would be a team of specialized individuals that let leases probably um paying um a lead planner a um you know, lead architect designer. What have you uh and one of those might be like a lead negotiator right who interfaces with the city and says hey here's what we can offer up et cetera, et cetera um now, with regards to the city's ability to also be able to be effective in those what some might call negotiations?

M

um You know it might be very challenging to do that when there is not necessarily what I would call under resourcing, but maybe not that same level of dedicated resourcing to um a project like that or you know a public benefit like that, so I guess some Curious a um where and how the public benefits fall within regards of the development review process and then B how it is determined outside of you know, direct direction from the city council.

M

But you know if there was ambiguity there, um even within that direction like who takes the lead or not individually, necessarily like names, but within the schematic of the department like who takes the lead on establishing the negotiating position and then making a determination around what's acceptable within that frame.

D

So uh you know, we've got two kinds of benefits and thank you for that question. It's a good one um and what I would say is a development agreement is a little bit different than uh a typical project, condition of approval right, because we've got standards if they're set and- uh and you know we have conditions of a pool based on it. We also.

C

Have a community benefit requirement.

D

In many of our precise plans and I'm, not talking about that one, okay you're talking about the other one um and those are also set um in the case of development agreements, they're an agreement, so it's not a condition that the city can lay on it. um So we do go to the council um and get direction uh from them and have a couple of sessions in this case asking for some some basic information um and thereafter we work under the direction of the city manager's office.

D

um We've got the different department directors who are very involved.

D

um We have the city attorney's office, we have Consulting attorneys and then we have other hotels to help us if we need Assessments in one sort or the other.

M

Yeah and so then so, for example, the last time that North Bay Shore came up right just like in terms of like how the whole slow almost a glacial pace of the project.

M

Right um and my understanding is that uh council members certainly definitely Commissioners um I, think it's in the charter, they're not too interfaced individually with staff members seek feedback, input, Etc right that kind of nature, um and so, if the city council provided Direction eight months ago, just like using this as an example, a scenario like this right, um if they provided Direction eight months ago and the next time it goes to a public hearing, is eight months later in front of the EPC um and within eight months.

M

There's so much time uh that that initial Direction was like a game of telephone right like where that initial Direction, um based on steps back and forth with you know, lend Lisa's lead negotiator, um and you know they have basically done everything they can ostensibly to pick away at. You know the cities like um position, uh and then it comes to the EPC um I guess like one thing, I'm just curious about is like what is the um either legally prescribed or in general.

M

If there isn't such a legal prescription, what is like the best practice for a city, disclosing um or being transparent about what and how the negotiating position evolved during those eight months for a project of that scale.

D

um We it's it's like a project review, for example like it evolves um and- and we make findings um in in the ordinance when we make recommendations. So a lot of the recommendations uh reflect those findings um and we take our guidance from many many City documents. Ultimately, we are the core.

D

The core principles are the ones that we got direction from the Council on and thereafter we are, our city manager is the one who is providing us Direction, and so, if you're, asking the the development agreement, ordinance will reflect all of those findings, essentially where, where we're looking at the value of the document, much like a project, every tiny iteration is not specifically reported But.

D

Ultimately, the whole of the document and the findings are, are the package that we would present and when we come to council, we are going to talk about see what happens why it is what it is so there's a there is a definite that we're we're giving them and with every submittal of the applicant, we're tracking what we got.

M

So I'll convert my next question to a comment then just as a time um and then be hopefully get to the last question here: um I guess, uh if I'm hearing things correctly, um you know, and especially just considering the uniqueness of Mountain View, almost with regards to being a smaller City, like with respect to like just absolute like footprint size like I, don't think we're a la or a yeah we're not one of these like larger cities. Yet we have like very intensive um development projects.

M

um You know like, uh relatively speaking, that happen within the city um and when there are, you know like a significant amount of, for example, public impacts um of projects of the scale and the ability, for you know a city of our size to be able to um be able to get as much benefit out of having a project of that skill occur.

M

um You know it would seem like um if there is not what some might call either a like a dedicated City negotiator, or you know whether it be like training of negotiation skills.

M

If you know, planning staff are not trained in that kind of like approach um or if it's typical for larger cities to have such kind of dedicated roles- and um you know we being in that unique position of having such intensive development for a city of our size might benefit from something like that as part of an efficiency um or for like the public benefit.

M

That's just one thing I was thinking through, um but then the last question I had um was um you mentioned findings actually, um and it's a little bit uh not totally unrelated, but um some of our conditional perm or like permitting language um and is Sandy on the line. No okay, um well I might ask her anyway outside of this, um but I'm also curious, um I, guess to hear from you.

M

If that's all right, um there's like language in some of our like permit um kind of in, like the chapter 36, the zoning code right um Bluegrass, like finding so I'll. Just give you one example right like under I, think it's like planned unit development.

M

um There is a language that says something along the lines of there's, not an administrator or city council. May approve a PUD um if all of the following findings are made and then, if you go down down down, um there's like a letter G- and it says the location, size, design and operating characteristics of the proposed project are not detrimental to the public interest, health safety, convenience or welfare of the community.

M

um So my question is um how and who, and what um or any combination thereof is the definition of the public interest, health safety, convenience or welfare of the community?

M

um How is that determined as part of like staff's review process? um I guess: I'll start there like? How is that defined within your guys's, like review.

D

Well, I I'll start and then maybe you can give details. um We we start with. We've got a lot of documents that guide us as we as we go through and we look at the journal plan. We look at the precise plan. Is it consistent with the code? We've got environmental review, mitigations we've got conditions of approval and we go through all of those to see. If we have, we have checked the boxes and and then we derive our conclusion based on that.

B

E

Pretty much hit it in terms of we rely on our code and regulations really, and we rely on state law or federal law to really guide us on that. So that's what we're really relying on.

M

And last question, then: um it seems to me, like a lot of you know like between the pressure that the state is kind of like pressing down on with regards to the cities. Like you know, I guess like the need to develop right like the state seems to be moving in this direction of like we want development to happen, um and then the city you know appears to be in, like uh you know, we want to review, but also we've kind of got to get things moving along.

M

um It I'm wondering what's the latitude that is like legally like defensible in terms of a uh City denying a Project based on detriments to like the public interest, health safety um and that being essentially like legally defensible. I know we're not lawyers here, I know Sandy's not online, but like is it like? Oh um you know, this is gonna block someone's view. Is it like? Oh, this is gonna. You know cause um you know our vulnerable populations to be displaced and bring us less housing as a result like what is the actual, like latitude.

M

That constitutes a defensible denial of a Project based on a detriment to like the public interest, health safety convenience and, if that's, not something you're like able to speak to like conceptually like is there a you know like material example from like another city or case that you've heard of um where that was like held up? Essentially that's my last question. I.

D

Would say that probably a better.

D

As having been a planner and gone through it, I can I'll go back to the findings that we make right, because whether a project is approved or denied, it has to be based on very solid findings and findings of fact, and finding the fact that apply to this project.

D

So we always go back to the rules of Regulation and there are times when we're not able to address a particular issue because currently the documents we have don't support that finding the fact they'll give you the example of displacement, um I think I think that was extremely frustrating for the community when, when that happened, um fortunately sv330 came in and put a kind of a a a placeholder for it, but the council has flagged that as an issue and so the solution to it, then would be to create local regulations that address it, because now you you have to find things that you can make in fact right.

D

So just to kind of help. You understand that a lot of it. We have to go back to our legal team. They look at case law. They look at where, where the limits of our abilities are past practice, how will we attributed the code so.

C

There's a lot of there's a lot.

D

Of that that goes into making a finding of approval or denial, and then there are times when it can't be denied that we can actually work on legislative Solutions. Thank.

M

E

I'll just add: um that's a particularly difficult finding to make, so there are definitely case law examples, recent ones even to one of our adjacent cities that denied a Project based on that and it was overturned, um and so they were forced to proceed with processing the building permit. So um you know that's also what we would rely on.

D

If we look at case law all the time, you know, I had a lot of recent cases and so I think the good news is you know: we've got a very, very Progressive Council and a very supportive Planning Commission that allows us to work on these legislative Solutions and I. Keep coming back to the long-range planning. I think it goes a long way to help guide individual developments, just because we've done so much work on the long-range plans and it kind of helps us with the findings and creating the legislative back.

A

So, to sum up, in a sense, everything goes back to what is by law, so we're looking at our zoning ordinance we're looking at our master plan to precise plans, our general plans and everything is pretty much gazed against those documents. Oh, when.

D

We're looking at when we're looking at judicials, yes right, um so you know we have to go back to what do our rules say exactly and.

A

How have we applied them? Okay, I understand so I think at the Bernie trying to bring it back to how we can be more effective as an EPC.

A

When we remove things, it is helpful, I think when it's sort of flag when a project comes before us and it's flagged as these are the this is ministerial right, I'm sure you've done it before, and so this is what we're doing I you don't have to do it every time in the staff report, but just you know just kind of give the signals that this is a certain kind of project. These are the things that we're trying to match it against be more open and direct and clear about it.

A

I think that what helps us it helps the public in that way in a sense, I'm, not saying that they don't understand it, I don't even understand it sometimes, so it helps educate everyone along the way and the more everyone understands what's going on the more efficient, the better the input can be because we're closing in on fewer and fewer opportunities to do so and I know um I've Heard lots of comments from the public throughout a long number of years that it seems like we don't get to see projects until they're, almost fully baked and I know in the review process.

A

It's a long one. A lot of things have to happen before we get there and things have to be in place, but maybe that's something we can discuss in a future date is perhaps you know: where can we change the process where right, we can kind of see things a little bit sooner, so that input from the public can be taken in a little bit sooner? Maybe it's not coming to us sooner whatever it is, however, it ends up being that it can be improved and I.

A

Think that's a conversation worth having later too um I'm just so happy. We did this because you can see how many questions have come up and I. Think the more we understand what goes on behind the curtain, the clearer we are and I think the clearer the public is, and so, as covid has like sort of drifted off not into the past, but as a new way of being.

A

You know, you know it's produced some new processes like through Zoom it, but I do like being in person if you like the ability to then have more of these communications and a more sort of education and communication flowing both ways and if we can continuously have that more consistently. I think it's only going to improve the whole overall process.

A

So if there's a possibility- and everyone is okay with that- that we can do or think about what we want to talk about at the next one- just put it out there as there's another one to be had, let's figure out what we want to talk about there, um I would be thrilled I, don't know how you guys feel about that, but all for more communication. It just leads to less miscommunication in the future.

A

Exactly we could decide, maybe is that something I don't know what the process is Eric for deciding on Retreats, whether or not to have it. If we have it what we discuss, because I don't necessarily feel like I'm, the chair, I should be deciding I feel like we should all kind of maybe have a say on that.

D

I think that's a great idea and then, from time to time, we've done different kinds. I know that when I used to have the Planning Commission, sometimes they wanted to walk around and look at certain developments or certain opportunities or a discussion like this, where you want to learn more about process. So um I think it's a great idea to kind of think about different topics that are relevant to the projects you're going to be looking at um and learning more.

D

We have quite a we have quite a robust work program for the Planning Commission and staff in the next couple of years. So you can use that to guide a lot of your topics.

D

L

One question Alex's discussion with you about the da, so just for clarification, say what I'm understanding is that when you go through that process, it's a publicly held hearing throughout the course of its life cycle. When you get updates and feedback and suggestions in general from what's been conveyed to you to council city council, then with you as well, but along the way when there are negotiations, evolving council is part of the process for the decision making and the ultimate proposal. Discussions with opposing Council and therefore I believe are those held.

L

Also, aren't they held them or are they not held in closed session, or is this all public discourse? No.

D

I mean it's like any project that we have discussions with the applicant and we've got are: are negotiating attorneys on our side, who are experiencing DA's, also um and so their their conversations. But the public hearings are at the Za and the council and then at the study sessions. Okay, where, where we're bringing the key items, sure discussion.

L

So then, the direct question, then, is when this process is ongoing. Are there ever closed session updates given to city council.

D

Or not, no, the council is acting as a brown act body in this case, and they only act in in public sessions. Thank.

L

You for the clarification, I, think that makes a big difference, because different bodies act a different way in my previous experience. We would had it. We would have negotiation updates from our Council within local.

D

L

D

Right different when the council is acting in its capacity as landowner, those who might have closed sessions, but not on projects like.

L

This right and hence the question right and again, notification legal.

D

Team gives us Direction about how to have it. So if there's a a discussion to buy a lot or lease a lot, that's when the council might have uh give direction to staff in a closed session. It's very circumscribed um this. This these matters are discussed and open and.

L

That's a distinction. I wanted to clarify for the general public to know so that there is no confusion in terms of how the process works. Thank you. It's all open, there's nothing behind the scenes, even if it's a formal update, that's given to Council in the closed session format, whereby some council is shared- that's not applicable in this case, because it's all an open process, it's all an open process. Thank you. Thank you.

J

If we get 100 projects all together to 10 fdas does one FDA does.

D

Particularly, um a DA is kind of a.

D

Budget, like Master plans where the typical life cycle, or the typically Improvement needs to be, um as as as Lindsay described, the uh in order to invest the permit. You have to start um uh construction within two years um and it's not possible on a project that decides to start construction everywhere, and so um a da a D.A is appropriate at that time. Where you're looking at the timelines- and it's part of that you as a city, you can negotiate things, you couldn't normally negotiate as a condition of approval right.

D

So so we can look at that. We also have to look at how the how the building lays out how the how the construction plays out. So it has to be very practical. It has to have Community benefits and it it basically uh needs to allow the build out of the project in an orderly fashion that allows the city to also construct its infrastructure. At a time right, I mean for a project of this size.

D

um We've got we've had a few days for the uh LASD transfer of development right projects and those typically have been running the the length of the mou that the cities had with the school district, because if there's a certain timeline and they've asked for a little more time and they're giving millions of dollars to the district, so um we supported those it Council supported those those.

H

D

E

So if you want to think of it like this, we have roughly 80 development projects that we uh report on in our current project list on a regular basis um of the 80 uh some of those half days, we have about six or seven active DA's right now. Okay,.

J

um The singer family, homeowner.

E

Correct it's more! It's going to be related to what she started. It's about the scale of the project, or we often see them come up in uh as the economy declines. We see it more common for non-residential to start potentially like office developments.

D

C

D

And another example is I, think uh marwood when that got approved by the council. um They they needed a little more time, they're, helping at least in the D.A they're, proposing to help fund the construction for garage, it's providing parking. So when you've got an unusual Arrangement like that, it might be an occasion for a DA we go to council asking. Is this something of interest? And the council says? Yes, we go work on it. You know.

D

So um it's not typical um and we've had quite a few because of the DDR projects, I would say, but in the in the timeline of the city we really honestly haven't had too many.

A

Okay, any remaining last closing comments, questions.

L

Thank you for your patience and your time. This is not an easy position to be in because sometimes you feel like what's next, what are the questions coming up? What other issues coming up but I think one of the reasons why it was suggested.

L

I have something like this is so that we can all figure out what our roles are in general and the overall scheme of things and I'm very appreciative and supportive that we all agreed to support the LMS to be one of the top 10 issues that Saint Council looked at, so they can Implement that for you and the team to be more efficient, more productive, but to keep this pace going because without having it and being like this and providing this type of service, that's truly an amazing job right because you're not using an automated system to convey responses on an as the basis to all the different projects that you're facing as a whole and to do that individually as human beings who needs AI all right.

L

So, thank you so much for all your help with all that stuff and and bring them to light where we fit in within this world of the decision-making process and and I'm glad everyone I'm hoping found value in all this because I think, once we do these things we get closer together as a team, we become more functional with our roles and have a better understanding.

L

Those who have been previously with city council play, uh commissioner Clark has that experience which is invaluable to us as well, and commissioner Cranston, as well with all his years of experience. Some of us don't have that, and so this is very insightful for us and I I'm sure the community appreciates also the opportunity to learn more about how you all handle these things and how you bring them before us, so that we can, in the end, help out with what we can, when we say yeah to put the products with us. So thank you.

D

Thank you very much for for having us present.

A

So we'll uh officially adjourn uh item five in Ubuntu, commission staff, announcements, updates, requests and Community reports. um I didn't know if anybody had anything.

I

To report or stuff um so in terms of next EPC meeting, we actually don't have anything together. So.

I

August so I'm not going to formally cancel the meeting uh in June, but we don't have any until you know.

I

But it does look like the June 1780s, very likely.

I

So um if we don't see each other again.

I

um I'm and we do have a bunch.

J

Of stuff coming up.

A

The historic preservation ordinance, which we started working on at.

I

Cooperate back to you, um you know we're we're starting to work again on R3, and so there's there's definitely going to be a lot of work.

J

Okay, thank you, foreign.

E

uh We made changes in the actual panel, I walk with to 60, so it addressed of them. It would qualify um and Council doctor. Thank.

A

You, okay well wearing anything else. Last minute uh we will adjourn the meeting at 9, 45 P.M.

I

J