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From YouTube: Planning Commission Meeting | January 23, 2019
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B
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D
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G
H
F
G
D
E
D
Is
approved
next
course
of
business.
Is
the
public
comments?
This
time
period
is
been
set
aside
for
members
of
the
public
to
address
the
Planning
Commission
on
the
consent,
calendar,
non-pom
hearing
items
and
items
of
general
interest
when
the
subject
matter
of
the
jurisdiction
of
the
subject
matter
of
the
jurisdiction.
If
you
wish
to
speak
on
these
items,
please
come
forward
at
this
time.
D
J
Yes,
I'm,
the
only
one
I
will
try
to
speak
quickly
because
I
can't
stay
and
I
have
three
items.
I
just
want
to
touch
quickly.
My
name
is
Paul
Henrickson
resident
of
Palm
Springs
item
2d,
it
looks
like
the
turbines
are
gonna,
keep
their
iconic
look
so
we're
in
favor
of
it.
That's
a
nice
thing
so
glad
to
see
that
density
2e.
J
It
seems
odd
to
me
that
in
a
small
city
in
the
middle
of
the
desert,
with
lots
of
land
around
us
that
we're
talking
about
increased
density
in
different
places
in
the
city
and
I
just
thought
that
that
was
a
little
odd
because
it
seems
unnecessary
and
unwarranted,
but
we'll
leave
it
to
your
best
discretion
now
for
item
4a.
That's
the
chalk
prop
project,
which
is
also
in
our
in
our
neighborhood
I'm
from
upper
Westside,
and
we
think
the
concept
and
everything
is
they've
done
a
great
job
with
all
of
that.
J
Our
concern
still
remains
with
national
historic,
registered
Wexler
steel
frame
homes
and
how
it
will
impact
that,
including
with
an
increased
density
on
that
property
as
well.
The
other
issue
is
what
will
happen
with
parking
in
the
neighborhood.
We
already
have
adjacent
to
this
project,
some
other
multi-unit
dwellings
that
already
produce
a
parking
issue
in
the
neighborhood,
and
we
believe
that
this
one
will
create
even
more
of
that
and
that's
one
of
our
big
concerns.
So
if
you'll,
please
take
note
of
that
and
think
about
how
that
could
be
mitigated
or
avoided.
J
I
know
this
project
was
raised
from
53
units
up
to
60,
even
though
they
it
stated
that
they
could
have
possibly
gone
further
with
that.
Just
that
extra
increase
of
seven
more
properties
that
are
seven
more
units
with
two
cars
per
unit.
That's
another
14
cars.
We
estimate.
Probably
there
will
be
30
to
40
cars
that
won't
be
able
to
fit
in
the
allowable
parking.
That's
that's
the
estimate
that
our
neighborhood
is
taking,
and
we
certainly
see
that
being
the
case
around
the
other
multi-unit
dwellings.
J
So
those
are
some
of
the
concerns
that
we're
seeing
those
concerns
that
I
have,
and
certainly
those
Wexler
steel
frame
homes.
The
view
cast
meeting
the
background
and
the
impact
to
those
because
they're
part
of
what
attracts
people
to
be
visitors
here
in
Palm
Springs
to
come
visit
for
architectural
tours.
It's
a
significant
part
of
our
tourism
dollars.
It's
an
important
component
and
part
of
our
identity.
That
makes
us
a
place
like
no
other,
rather
than
a
place
like
every
other.
Thank
you.
D
G
Good
afternoon
Planning
Commission
Commissioner
share
the
my
name
is
Vincent
Nicholas
I'm.
Vice
president
real
estate,
development
for
community
housing
opportunities
corporation
and
horror
item
4a
I
brought
my
development
team.
Our
team
is
delighted
to
be
here.
We
would
like
to
answer
any
questions
when
questions
are
asked
of
us
we're
here
to
present
anything
that
the
Commission
would
need
to
hear.
I
appreciate
the
comments
that
were
just
made
we
have
addressed
through
our
historical
review
report
is
the
Wexler
home,
so
hopefully
planning
can
to
add
to
that.
G
K
Joy
silver
and
I'm
reading
from
Gregg
Lucas
Rodriguez,
my
name
is
Greg
Gard
Vegas
that
you
know
isn't
true,
but
I
am
speaking
for
him.
I
am
a
resident
of
Palm
Springs
I'm.
Writing
this
letter
in
support
of
the
affordable
housing
project
being
proposed
by
choc
at
the
corner
of
San
Rafael
Indian
Canyon.
K
There
should
be
no
need
to
debate
for
affordable
housing,
not
only
in
the
city
of
Palm
Springs,
but
the
entire
Coachella
Valley
I
actually
serve
on
the
board
of
lift
dries,
a
local
collective
impact,
collective
impact
collaborative
that
is
addressing
our
affordable
housing
crisis
in
the
valley.
It
is
estimated
that
just
to
reduce
rent
burden
by
30
percent
over
the
next
10
years,
we
would
need
to
build
at
least
a
thousand
units
per
year.
K
I
am
also
the
public
policy
advisor
for
Riverside
County
Supervisor
manual
Perez,
where
my
main
responsibilities
include
housing
and
homelessness
homeless
is
the
number
one
issues
for
voters
in
the
city
and
we
will
never
be
able
to
significantly
reduce
homelessness
without
more
affordable
housing.
Stock
supervisor
Perez
has
been
fully
briefed
on
this
project
and
is
a
hundred
percent
in
favor
of
its
development.
K
I
have
met
with
the
developer
and
can
honestly
say
this
is
one
of
the
best
projects
I
have
seen
they
have
taken
into
account
every
prior
issue
brought
forward
by
the
community
against
any
development
on
this
site,
the
height
and
view
restrictions
have
been
completely
addressed
and
the
design
is
completely
in
character
with
the
neighborhood
in
the
city.
It
is
imperative
that
Palm
Springs
takes
a
lead
on
advancing,
affordable
housing
projects
such
as
this.
K
It
is
a
real
shame
that
the
workers
we
rely
on
for
our
hospitality
and
tourism
industry,
our
teachers
and
our
low
to
middle
income
residents
are
being
priced
out
of
the
area
they
work
in.
Since
the
developer
is
operating
under
SB
35,
they
really
don't
have
to
present
to
the
Planning
Commission
but
I
think
by
coming
before
you
today,
they
are
showing
exactly
the
kind
of
developers
good
intentions.
We
look
for
I
strongly
encourage
you
to
recommend
approval
of
this
development
to
the
City
Council
I
appreciate
your
concern.
C
Hi
I'm
Eileen
Stern
I
am
a
resident
of
Palm,
Springs
and
I'm
speaking
on
behalf
of
the
affordable
housing.
I
want
to
speak
from
it
from
the
heart.
From
a
personal
experience,
I
grew
up.
In
Chicago,
my
family
lived
in
public
housing,
I
came
from
a
working-class
family
and
when
my
parents
got
divorced
and
I
was
raised
by
a
single
mother,
we
were
able
to
live
in
pretty
low-income
housing.
C
L
L
California
is
a
leader
in
our
nation,
but
we
are
a
leader
in
our
nation
in
our
poverty
rates,
nineteen
percent
of
Californians
live
without
the
security
of
knowing
when
their
next
meal
is
going
to
be,
or
possibly
even
roos
over
their
heads.
It
is
time
for
us,
as
a
community,
to
continue
our
leadership
into
curbing
this
problem.
L
Despite
our
best
efforts
in
California,
we
have
only
decreased
our
property
rates,
1.4
percent
since
2017.
This
is
in
large
part
due
the
hot
due
to
the
high
price
of
housing.
People
are
in
crisis,
all
Americans,
Californians
and
Palm.
Springs
ian's
deserve
the
dignity
of
a
roof
over
their
head
and
a
place
to
call
home
for
their
family,
so
they
can
thrive,
and
so
too
can
our
community.
L
Moreover,
this
will
help
to
curb
homelessness
and
bring
down
the
greater
safety
and
security
and
bringing
greater
safety
and
community
during
greater
safety
and
security
to
our
community
as
a
whole.
The
design
is
beautiful.
It's
well
thought
out
and
it's
a
good
start
to
finally
providing
the
housing
to
many
of
our
too
many
people
and
too
many
families
need.
Thank
you.
Thank.
M
Thank
You
commissioners
I
appreciate
the
chance
to
speak
in
front
of
you.
My
name
is
Tom
Kuhn
I'm,
a
resident
of
Palm,
Springs
and
I've
lived
here,
20
months,
I've
owned
since
oh
three
and
the
reason
I
chose
Palm
Springs
is
because
of
the
values
that
this
progressive
City
has
for
us
to
turn
our
backs
now
on.
M
Affordable
housing
does
not
make
sense,
we've
been
a
leader
we
have,
we
have
stepped
up
and
we
have
added
a
lot
of
housing
in
the
Coachella
Valley,
but
one
of
the
areas
that
really
is
lacking
right
now
is
Palm.
Springs
I
work
with
a
homeless
I
sit
on
the
board
of
the
well
I.
Do
not
represent
the
well
today,
but
I
represent
their
interest.
At
the
same
time,
we
need
to
curb
homelessness.
We
have
a
hundred
and
thirty-five
residents
that
live
on
the
streets
24
hours
a
day
here
in
Palm
Springs.
M
We
just
served
1,500
meals
at
Christmas
to
people
that
had
nowhere
else
to
go.
Some
of
these
were
working-class
individuals,
but
did
not
have
the
money
to
be
able
to
give
that
kind
of
dinner
and
gifts
to
their
children
at
Christmas.
Now's,
the
time
to
take
the
lead,
now's
the
time
to
step
up
and
build
the
housing
we
need
so
that
we
can
serve
our
residents.
M
M
M
Having
worked
at
Desert
Regional
Hospital
for
20
years,
I'm
now
retired
many
many
of
the
employees
could
not
afford
to
live
anywhere
near
the
hospital,
as
you
know,
and
which
often
caused
a
problem
of
during
the
day
of
employment
if
they
lived
up
at
Yakka
and
it
snowed
they
couldn't
get
in,
and
there
was
an
awful
lot
of
talk,
then
of
affordable
housing
and
how
many
of
them
would
have
been
happy
to
come
here
and
to
live
in
Palm
Springs,
so
I
am
totally
in
support.
Thank
you.
Thank.
D
G
Hi,
my
name
is
Joe
Wallace
I
am
the
CEO
of
the
Coachella
Valley
Economic
Partnership
and
I'm
one
of
the
letters
that
was
written
in
support
of
the
affordable
housing
project
and
looking
at
it
from
a
economic
perspective.
You
know
we
manage
the
innovation
hubs
and
we
bring
entrepreneurs
to
town,
and
you
know
you
read
in
the
paper
about
people
who
have
made
all
of
these
millions
of
dollars
as
entrepreneurs.
They
don't
start
out
that
way.
They
start
out
struggling
living
on
credit
cards.
G
Doing
things
like
that
and
affordable
housing
is
vital
to
the
lifeblood
of
a
growing
entrepreneurial
community
and
I
believe
that
some
of
the
people
who
we
attract
to
town
who
start
businesses
may
be
eligible
for
affordable
housing
and
if
it's
available
to
them,
that's
something
that
will
make
them
start
and
grow
their
businesses
here,
as
opposed
to
somewhere
else.
So
something
to
think
about
is
my
opinion
and
it's
also
see
vep
supports
affordable
housing
because
affordable
housing
is
economic
development.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank.
D
You
mr.
Wallace
I,
see
some
other
people
have
become
in
the
audience.
Is
there
anyone
to
speak
on
any
items
on
the
agenda?
Hearing
none
move
on
before
I
move
on
I
want
to
acknowledge
and
welcome
our
two
new
commissioners.
We
have
Maria
song
who
comes
to
us
from
the
AAC
and
we
have
grace
Gardner,
whose
brand
new
to
the
Commission.
This
is
their
first
meeting
today.
So
congratulations.
D
D
The
first
public
hearing
item
number
two
in
your
agenda
is
Canyon
Partners
LLC,
representing
the
Museum
of
ancient
wonders
for
a
conditional
use
permit
to
allow
a
museum
within
the
central
business
district
located
at
4
441
South
Palm
Canyon
Drive.
The
zone
is
a
central
business
district,
section
10,
but
that
can
we
have
a
staff
report.
Please
Thank.
N
You
chair
this
application
is
for
a
museum
located
at
441
South
Palm
Canyon
Drive
the
slide.
That's
before
you
shows
the
the
site.
There
are
two
buildings
that
are
next
to
each
other,
a
four
four
seven
and
four
forty-one.
The
museum's
proposed
to
go
into
the
the
one
building
on
the
right
hand,
side
which
used
to
be
the
Marquis
dance
and
a
music
location.
N
So
the
proposal
is
to
locate
within
the
six
thousand
four
hundred
eighty
square
foot.
Building
of
that
building,
two
thousand
and
nine
hundred
square
feet
will
be
used
as
public
space,
the
handout
that
is
before
you
today
includes
a
more
detailed
floor
plan
than
what
was
included
in
the
original
staff
report
and
you'll,
see,
there's
some
breakdown,
greater
breakdown
of
what
is
public
space
office,
space
storage
space
and
then
a
greater
description
of
the
type
of
exhibits
that
will
be
inside
the
museum.
N
So
the
museum
consists
of
several
exhibits
that
include
some
Egyptian
art,
some
Indian
artifacts
and
other
museum
pieces
that
the
nonprofit
organization
has
curated
over
the
years.
So
for
the
details
of
the
project
they
there
currently
is
55
off-street
parking
spaces
in
the
rear
of
the
building,
which
includes
four
forty,
one
and
four
four
seven,
and
they
will
be
there
currently
are
joint
easements
that
allow
cross
parking
over
each
of
these
spaces.
N
So
when
the
applicant
gave
us
the
greater
detail
of
of
the
usable
space,
the
downtown
parking
combining
zone
will
only
require
nine
spaces
within
the
parking
lot
associated
with
the
museum.
So
the
site
is
amply
parked
for
the
proposed
use
there
are,
is
proposed
hour
of
operation
to
be
seven
days
a
week
from
10
a.m.
to
6
p.m.
and
then
on
Thursdays
extended
hours
from
12
p.m.
to
8
p.m.
there
is.
The
museum
is
also
available
for
private
events
and
there's
admission
fee
for
adults,
children,
students
and
alike.
N
So
within
your
packet
there
are
conditions
of
approval
that
the
Planning
Commission
would
need
to
make
to
approve
a
conditional
use
permit,
which
are
are
so
noted.
The
staff
is
recommending
approval
and
there
was
one
other
letter
from
one
of
the
tribes
which
is
including
your
packet,
and
that
concludes
my
report.
Chair
and
the
applicant
is
here
thank.
O
N
H
Okay,
thanks
for
that,
maybe
I
didn't
see
it,
but
if
you
could
just
point
me
in
the
right
direction
on
your
report
on
no
that's
okay,
I'll
take
that
back,
I'm
done
Thanks
we're.
G
It's
there
a
second
level
to
this
building
a
second
floor.
There.
D
Any
other
questions
of
staff
at
this
point.
Okay,
is
the
applicant
in
the
audience,
can
I
have
you
step
forward
and
give
us
your
name
and
your
address?
You're
gonna
have
ten
minutes
to
make
a
presentation,
and
then
after
public
comment,
if
you
so
desire,
you'll
have
two
minutes
for
a
rebuttal.
Lunch.
B
Thank
you
good
afternoon.
My
name
is
Alberto
Acosta
and
I.
Thank
you
for
this
opportunity
to
appear
before
you
I'm,
founder
and
president
and
curator
of
the
International
Museum
Institute,
which
is
a
traveling
exhibition,
firm
with
a
rich
inventory
of
replicated
archaeological
treasures
representing
ancient
civilizations
of
Egypt,
Greece
and
Africa,
along
with
a
grand
collection
of
laboratory
cast
fossil
specimens
of
important
paleontological
discoveries
gathered
from
30
museums,
Natural
History
Museum's
worldwide.
B
These
exhibitions
have
been
hosted
by
museums
of
Science
and
Technology
Natural,
History
children's
museums,
discovery,
centers,
science,
history
and
fine
art
museums,
as
well
as
university
campuses
and
community
colleges
throughout
the
United
States.
They
are
a
premier,
educational,
cultural
and
economic
engine
in
each
of
their
host
cities.
B
While
there
are
on
display
a
past
venue,
list
of
50
museums
is
available
for
your
you
by
visiting
the
institute's
webpage
WWE
national
museum
institute,
calm
feasibility
and
demographic
studies
to
determine
which
city
in
america
would
be
best
suited
for
the
retirement
of
these
collections
for
permanent
display
have
identified
a
wide
scope
of
candidates
from
Syracuse
New
York
to
El
Paso
Texas,
including
Detroit
Michigan
in
st.
Louis
Missouri.
B
To
mention
just
a
few
Palm
Springs
is
the
first
choice
for
a
permanent
location,
not
only
because
of
the
spirit
of
all
inclusiveness
that
Palm
Springs
is
famous
for,
but
to
contribute
a
full
scale
and
diverse
museum
collection
where
it
will
serve
as
a
window
into
the
worlds
of
ancient
civilization
and
prehistoric
life.
A
museum
of
ancient
wonders
the
nature
and
scope
of
a
museum
with
this
focus
does
not
exist
anywhere
in
the
Coachella
Valley.
B
It
is
an
it
has
ample
parking
spaces
with
a
public
parking
garage
within
walking
distance,
a
front
and
rear
door.
Double
entrance
and
exit
with
handicapped
access
are
available
whenever
the
museum
is
open
to
the
public.
Both
male
and
female
restrooms
are
conveniently
located
for
visitor
firt,
a
well-preserved
1960s,
mid-century
era,
building
with
high
ceilings,
a
lobby,
spacious,
grand
galleries.
This
building
shows
pride
of
ownership.
It
isn't
it
is
an
excellent
condition
and
does
not
require
any
renovation
whatsoever
to
house
and
present.
B
Crowd
control
is
very
important
for
the
general
operations
of
any
museum
to
secure
and
protect
exhibitions
from
damage
or
theft,
and
to
assure
a
pleasant
experience
for
the
visitor
in
your
packet.
Our
draftsman
has
produced
a
scale
drawing
suggesting
a
maximum
number
of
visitors
to
be
98,
based
on
the
square
footage
of
exhibitions
and
access
to
them.
This
will
help
to
determine
which
building
code
conditions
may
apply
in
condition.
B
B
The
museum
is
prepared
to
open
its
doors
within
30
to
40
days
of
your
approval.
I
would
like
to
give
special
thanks
to
Glenn
Laker
for
his
expertise
and
guidance
through
this
process.
He
is
an
asset
to
our
city.
I,
look
forward
to
your
responses
and
to
assist
in
your
deliberations.
Thank
you
for
your
time,
interest
and
kind
consideration.
B
D
You
thank
you
very
much.
This
is
a
public
hearing.
So
if
there's
anyone
in
the
audience
wishing
to
speak
on
this
item,
could
you
come
forward
to
the
podium
please,
since
this
appears
to
be
no
one
in
the
audience?
You
have
two
minutes
for
rebuttal.
If
you
want
to
use
it,
if
not
we'll
take
questions
from
the
Commission
I
would.
B
Like
to
answer,
commissioner,
her
spines
questions
about
them
being
replicas,
of
course,
I'm.
Sorry
I'm.
Sorry,
usually
the
originals
are
housed
in
the
museum's
that
that
that
house
originals,
the
International
Museum
Institute
has
commissioned
replicas
from
artisans
who
have
access
to
the
originals,
so
they
are
of
the
highest
quality
replicas
available
for
museum
quality
exhibitions.
B
The
fossils
are
laboratory
cast
specimens.
They
are
direct
imprints
from
original
fossils.
You
could
study
them
as
though
they
were
the
originals
they're,
just
not
as
cold
so
for
communities
that
don't
have
access
to
original
materials.
This
is
the
next
best
thing
without
them
ever
having
to
leave
their
backyard.
H
B
Are
several
ways
we
can
handle
that
I'm
looking
at
budget
at
the
moment,
but
immediately
a
screen
that
will
block
out
any
direct
light
into
the
building?
There's
a
proposal
perhaps
to
build
a
wall
about
18
inches
from
that
wildung
from
the
window
to
create
an
exhibition
area
for
people
to
see
before
they
enter.
My
main
goal
is
to
cut
out
all
the
natural
lighting
to
the
building,
so
it
is
essential
for
the
preservation
of
the
artifacts
to
make
sure
that
there's
no
direct,
sunlight
or
ultraviolet
radiation.
F
F
B
B
That
has
that's
my
impression
if
there
were
300
or
more
people
wanting
to
attend
the
museum
at
once,
then
the
building
would
require
the
sprinkler
system.
In
this
case,
the
maximum
number
is
98
and
actually
I
would
prefer
75
just
to
maintain
security
of
my
collections
in
there
so
I'm
hoping
that
the
attendance,
the
maximum
attendance
will
preclude
the
need
or
use
of
a
sprinkler
system.
Okay,.
F
B
B
O
Thank
you
for
presentation,
I
mean
no
disrespect
by
me
questions
by
the
way,
but
I'm
unfamiliar
generally
with
museums
whose
collections
consist
of
replicas
as
opposed
to
originals.
I
know
they
exist.
Obviously,
and
you
mentioned
the
fact
that
this
is
sort
of
international
exhibit,
we
want
to
make
sure
it's
an
international
exhibit
and
equality
exhibit
because
we
like
to
think
Palm
Springs
is
an
international
City.
How
are
we
to
rely
on
the
fact
that
these
are
really
great
replicas,
not
knowing
the
artisans?
O
O
B
B
B
The
Egyptian
artifacts
are
sanctioned
by
the
Department
of
Antiquities
of
Egypt
and
they
are
produced
by
a
generation
of
artisans
who've
been
doing
it
for
decades
since
the
discovery
of
King
Tut's
trove
treasures
in
1922,
it's
a
whole
family
of
artisans
that
have
been
doing
it
for
many
years.
They
come
from
the
pharaonic
village,
which
is
just
outside
of
Cairo
in
Giza,
and
some
of
them
are
replicated
by
the
Egyptian
Art
Center
in
Cairo
itself.
So
there
are
other
collectors.
B
B
O
B
O
G
B
Second
level
is
very
small,
in
fact:
I
would
call
it
an
attic.
An
adult
cannot
stand
up
straight
on
the
second
floor,
it's
very
limited
space.
It
does
not
reach
from
one
end
to
the
other.
It's
not
a
full
second
floor.
I
would
say
it
only
covers
a
quarter
of
the
building.
I
would
consider
it
an
attic
space
will.
B
D
D
H
Like
to
make
a
motion
to
approve
with
one
condition
which
I
alluded
to
in
my
question
that
the
window
not
have
a
screen
on
it,
I'm
afraid
it's
just
going
to
become.
You
know
blank
window
and
I.
Don't
think
that's
what
we
want
to
present
to
the
public
that
they've
that
a
wall
is
built,
a
distance
back
from
the
window
far
enough
to
allow
any
sort
of
exhibit
or
presentation
made
to
the
glass
well.
D
D
And
emotion
that
passes
unanimously.
Thank
you.
We're
going
to
move
on
to
item
to
be
I,
understand
that
we
may
want
to
continue
its
of
item
to
be
to
February,
13
2013,
but
before
I
do
that
is
there
anyone
in
the
audience,
that's
here
to
speak
on
the
sense
of
Italy
during
nobody
hears
here
and
wanted
to
speak?
Can
I
get
a
motion
to
continue
it
to
February,
13,
2009
teen,
so
moved?
D
D
P
D
P
P
Mr.
chair
members
of
the
Planning
Commission,
so
on
January,
ninth
2019,
this
item
was
presented
to
you,
but
you
had
a
series
of
questions
and,
as
a
results,
you
voted
to
continue
the
hair
into
a
study
session.
I
was
held
earlier
on
today,
and
so,
following
that
thirty
session,
there
are
some
changes
that
have
been
made
not
to
the
project
description
but
to
the
mitigation
measures
and
to
the
conditions
of
approval.
P
The
changes
that
I
made
to
the
conditions
of
approval
reflects
the
comments
contained
in
the
letter
that
was
received
yesterday
and
I
was
was
distributed
to
the
Planning
Commission.
Today,
staff
has
met
with
members
of
the
applicant
and
they
have
indicated
to
start
that
they
will
be
agreeable
to
those
changes
and,
as
a
result,
staff
will
be
recommending
that
a
the
Planning
Commission
adopt
the
mitigated
negative
declaration
and
approved
the
the
project
subject
to
the
conditions
of
approval
that
you
previously
had
and
the
changed
conditions
of
approval.
P
So
basically
that
will
complete
my
report,
but
if
you
have
any
other
questions,
I
am
here.
So
is
the
applicant
I
had
to
make
to
make
presentations
to
you,
but
before
then,
I
just
want
to
go
back
to
those
changes.
I
have
them
on
the
I.
Have
them
here.
If
you
want
to
discuss
those
or
if
there
are
any
additional
questions
on
those
conditions
you
know
so
before
then
I
just
want
to
clarify
one
of
the
tables
that
that
you
have
in
the
staff
report
regarding
these
safety
setbacks.
P
P
Again,
the
code
requires
a
one
point,
two
five,
the
times
the
height
of
the
of
the
turbine,
which
would
have
been
six
hundred
twenty
four
feet.
The
applicant
is
proposing
a
one
point,
one
two
or
460
feet
from
the
railroad.
This
also
requires
a
variance,
so
those
I
just
want
to
put
these
objects
for
an
additional
clarification
and
then
on
the
environmental
assessment
conditions.
P
These
are
the
changes
that
have
been
made.
That
number
one,
that
the
initial
study
in
the
initial
sorry
in
the
cumulative
impact
session
of
the
initial
study,
the
determination
of
no
impact
shall
be
replaced
with
a
determination
of
less
than
significant
impact
with
mitigation
measures,
and
the
applicant
shall
be
required
to
submit
a
risk
assessment
strategy
to
the
city
and
also
the
recommendations
from
the
Sierra
Club
that
are
the
project.
Proponent,
shall
be
required
to
implement
all
the
recommendations
contained
in
the
command
letter
received
from
the
Sierra
Club
On
January,
21,
2009
teen.
P
So
to
be
specific,
the
that
first
one
was
the
was
regarding
the
determination
of
no
impact
and
followed
by
that.
The
applicant
shall
not
use
any
guy-wires
and
if
any
guy
wires
are
used,
flight
Devadas
shall
be
installed
to
reduce
impacts
of
avian
species
and
that
the
use
of
Alerus
towers
for
the
wind
turbines
shall
be
prohibited,
except
in
the
case
of
metals
and.
P
D
I
Yes,
mr.
Robertson,
yes,
sir,
for
the
environmental
assessment
conditions
number
three:
can
you
just
change
where
it
says,
recommendations
from
the
Sierra
Club
to
the
recommendations
from
the
Sierra
Club
in
the
Center
for
Biological
Diversity,
since,
although
they
authored
both
of
them
authored
that
letter
absolutely
and
the
rest
of
my
questions
will
be
for
the
applicant?
Thank
you.
H
Yeah,
so
in
going
back
to
the
conclusions
of
the
referenced
letter
in
the
environmental
assessment
conditions
that
you've
amended,
the
first
thing
it
says
is
that
the
they
want
the
Planning
Commission
to
require
all
the
proposed
trustee
agency
recommend
recommendations
and
what
is
the
trustee
agency
and
what
are
those
recommendations?
I.
P
E
They
intend
there
is
relative
to
the
comments
that
were
received
from
the
California
Department
of
Fish
and
Wildlife,
and
the
US
Fish
and
Wildlife
Service.
If
you
go
to
attachment
number
nine,
which
is
the
response
to
comments,
you
have
the
specific
response
to
each
of
the
things
that
both
of
those
organizations
are
requesting
and
how
those
have
been
addressed
in
the
mitigation
measures,
and
so
what
we
have
done
as
part
of
mitigation
measures
is
incorporated.
E
H
E
E
So
for
an
example,
if
you
go
to
the
response
to
comments
under
letter,
B
Department
of
Fish
and
Wildlife,
yes-
and
you
see,
comment
b2,
it's
rather
lengthy.
What
that
comes
down
to
is
the
very
last
paragraph
asks
that
a
risk
assessment
for
the
take
of
birds
and
bats
be
performed,
and
then,
if
you
go
to
response,
be
to
the
preparation
ants,
the
middle
of
a
risk
assessment
for
migratory
birds
and
bats
has
been
added
as
a
mitigation
measure.
So.
E
E
H
E
It's
more
accurate
in
terms
of
the
process
of
how
the
document
is
reviewed.
So
again,
if
you
go
through
all
of
the
response
to
comments,
we
have
incorporated
those
as
mitigation
measures
and
so
the
agencies,
both
the
California
Department
and
the
US
Fish
and
Wildlife
Service,
had
made
comments.
We
have
incorporated
those
as
mitigation
measures
and
by
so
doing
we
then
address
the
concern
of
the
Sierra
Club,
which
is
requesting
that
we
do
incorporate
those
comments
and.
E
F
P
Okay,
so
what
he
says
is
that
at
least
three
years
of
on-site
monitoring,
so
that
means
no,
it
doesn't
say
initially,
you
had
said
two
years,
but
now
it
extended
to
three
years.
So
if
it's
been
done
every
week
or
every
other
week,
it
will
continue
for
three
years,
as
opposed
to
limited
into
two
to
three
years.
Okay,.
F
P
H
D
Gardner,
did
you
have
any
questions?
Not
no
questions.
Are
there
any
more
questions
from
the
Commission?
Already
no
questions.
I
know
the
applicant
is
present.
You
have
ten
minutes
to
make
a
presentation
and
then
we'll
take
public
testimony.
The
public
hearing
is
open,
after
which
you'll
have
three
minutes
for
a
rebuttal.
If
you
could
state
your
name
again
and
your
address
hi.
G
Once
again,
I
I
just
wanted
to
thank
the
Commission
and
the
planning
department
for
all
the
the
work
they've
put
in
to
reviewing
this
project
it.
These
are
complex
and
they
take
time
to
digest
and
I
just
appreciate
very
much
your
time
and
effort,
especially
this
morning,
going
through
the
study
session.
I
don't
want
to
take
up
a
lot
of
time
here.
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
you
know
again.
We
feel
this
is
an
excellent
repowering
project.
It's
a
great
location.
G
It
takes
out
old
equipment,
puts
in
new
equipment,
it's
just
a
a
lot
of
great
benefits
all
around
for
for
both
the
city
and
the
region
and
we're
just
excited
about
it,
and
then
we
hope
that
that
that
you
take
the
time
and
and
are
able
to
vote
on
it
today
and
in
the
meantime,
or
have
my
team
here
and
we're
ready
to
answer
any
additional
questions
that
you
may
have
the
that
are
forthcoming,
so
just
Ford
resolving
any
and
he
did
dition
outstanding
questions.
You
may
have
thank.
D
H
G
Yeah
I
think
well,
first,
I
think
they
they
they
provide
the
city
comfort
with
some
of
the
outstanding
issues
related
to
biology.
They
were
concerning
that
we've
agreed
to
adopt
I,
think
I,
think
it
clarifies
things
again.
We've
we've
agreed
to
these
minor
changes
to
the
original
mitigation,
accepting
the
Sierra
Club
recommendations.
O
Your
should
Donna
Philip
one
question:
one
of
the
additions
under
the
mitigated:
negative
declaration
you're,
adding
a
requirement
under
mitigation
development
of
an
injured
bird
response
plan
that
the
linee
its
care
and
curation
of
any
injured
birds
and
storage
of
injured
birds.
It's
a
terrific
idea,
I'm
wondering
if
you've
done
this
before
on
other
projects,
and
if
you
have,
how
does
it
work.
G
Q
Afternoon,
I'm
Kevin
Martin
I'm,
the
director
of
environmental
permitting
for
Terrigen
power
in
San
Diego,
that's
a
very
good
question
and
the
day-to-day
operation
is
the
wind
farm
is
what
we
at
the
end
of
the
day
is
what's
important
to
us.
We
have
in
place
a
corporate
bird
and
bat
conservation
plan,
and
this
in
that
it
it
discusses
the
training
of
our
staff
for
the
monitoring
of
the
projects
and
the
reporting.
Q
Sometimes
those
birds,
we've
never
had
a
listed
species,
but
sometimes
it
warrants
contacting
the
agencies
at
that
time
we
leave
it
to
their
authority
and
their
discretion
as
to
what
we
do
to
dispose
of
that.
Sometimes
they
say:
leave
it
in
place,
sometimes
they'll
say:
take
it
to
a
rehabilitation
center,
sometimes
they'll
say
we'll
pick
it
up,
so
it
leaves
it
to
their
discretion,
but
it
we've
got
in
place
in
the
field
for
the
monitoring
in
the
reporting.
What.
Q
Was
a
an
eagle
that
was
found
not
on
the
project
site
but
adjacent
in
in
the
city
of
Mojave,
that
Eagle
seemed
to
be
suffering
from
some
sort
of
ailment,
probably
was
determined
later
that
it
was
lead
poisoning.
We
contacted
the
agency,
we
watched
the
bird
and
then
we
decided
that
we
were
told
what
to
do
with
it.
We
subsequently
sent
it
to
Bakersfield.
It
has
a
rehabilitation
center.
Q
At
that
same
time,
we
gave
the
facility
about
two
I
think
it
was
two
thousand
dollars
for
the
rehabilitation
afterwards,
that
bird
was
rehabilitated
and
eventually
released
back
into
the
wild
with
the
transmitter.
So
it
furthered
the
the
understanding
of
what
those
how
those
birds
behaved
in
the
area.
It
was
not
struck
by
a
winter
band.
It
did
not
hit
a
power
line,
it
was
suffering
from
from
led
toxicosis
and
ulcers
on
its
wings
in
could
not
fly.
So
that's
typically.
What
will
happen?
That's
just
one
example
are.
Q
I
Let's
want
to
commend
you
for
agreeing
to
the
mitigations
and
the
recommendations
of
both
staff
and
Sierra
Club
and
the
Center
for
biology
biological
diversity.
So
that's
quite
admirable.
Thank
you.
Some
specific
questions
about
some
of
the
mitigations
number
five,
this
issue
of
the
Eagle
conservation
plan.
You
talked
about.
You
know
it
takes
five
years
or
so
to
get
a
take
permit.
Q
The
risk
is
why
we
typically
with
this,
how
we
we
base
our
determination
and
we
have
many
projects
throughout
the
state
and
the
United
States
that,
where
that
are
greenfield
development
and
the
assessments
that
we
do
inform
us
as
to
what
level
of
risk
exists
for
impacting
Golden
Eagles
and
violating
the
bald
and
golden
eagle
Protection
Act.
This
valley
has
so
so
few
incidents
that,
relatively
speaking,
it
would
not
warrant
a
direct
initiation.
If
you
will
of
that
process,
it's
because
of
cost.
I
Q
It's
because
of
uncertainty-
and
it
may
be
that,
once
it's
operational,
we
can
determine
the
level
of
risk
if
we're
seeing
Eagles
flying
around.
If
there
are
Eagles
that
are
perhaps
killed
somewhere
else
jacent
to
it.
We
would
then
initiate
with
the
service,
but
at
this
point
there's
nothing
that
warrants
the
need
for.
I
Q
The
steps
in
the
process
there
there's
a
nuance
to
it:
it's
not
just
filling
out
an
application.
It's
it's
working
with
the
service
on
what
goes
into
that
application.
It's
not
like
going
down
and
applying
for
a
DMV
motor
license,
site
conditions
warrant
the
need
for
the
next
step.
It's
very
iterative,
and
so
we
week
until
we
will
continue
to
operate
on
the
site,
but
based
on
what
we
see
out
there
we'll
determine
what
we
do
well,
so
we
will
always
if
we
don't
do
it
now.
I
Q
Did
you
remove
that
part?
The
Eagle
conservation
plan
is
the
the
third
step
in
determining
if
an
Eagle
take
permit
warranted.
The
the
assessment
on
whether
to
to
put
an
Eagle
conservation
plan
together
is
based
on
information
from
the
operational
site
or
information
from
a
site
that
hasn't
been
operating
in
Greenfield.
I
I
D
R
R
There
has
never
been
an
eagle
or
a
hawk
killed
by
a
windmill
in
this
area,
anywhere
east
of
highway,
62
or
south
of
ten
north
or
south
of
ten
years
ago.
People
asserted
that
was
the
case
and
I
offered
a
$10,000
reward.
Anybody
could
bring
evidence
of
a
girl
killed
in
this
area.
Nobody
claims
a
reward.
They
don't
come
down
here.
They
live
up
in
the
hills.
R
This
has
been
accepted
by
many
Planning
Commission's
by
City
Council
on
seven
or
eight
permits.
I
can
I
know
of
no
of
my
personal
knowledge.
The
the
whole
bird
issue
as
a
foot
as
a
red
herring
and
a
false
issue
here
in
requiring
mitigation
for
a
problem
that
doesn't
exist
is
strikes
me
as
ill-advised.
R
Mercifully
down
here,
the
Eagles
in
a
Hawks
don't
get
killed
by
windmills.
It
just
doesn't
happen.
I
had
a
project
in
Northern
California,
where
the
reverse
was
the
case,
and
we
had
mortality
and
was
terrible,
but
to
go
down
this
path
again,
where
the
the
city
has
uniformly
over.
Many
permits
realized
that
there
is
no
eagle
or
hawk
issue
in
the
desert.
Is
is
surprising
to
me
that
we're
going
back
and
visiting
those
issues,
the
Fish
and
Wildlife
letters
are
sometimes
a
bit
murky.
They
mentioned
two
eagles
killed
in
Cabazon.
R
There
has
been
one
eagle
found
in
the
flat
of
the
desert
in
the
last
forty
years,
I've
been
doing
windmills
here
it
was
on
Dillon
Road
and
it
hit
a
power
line.
His
wing
was
cut,
a
windmill
blade
is
like
getting
hit
by
a
bus.
It's
blunt
doesn't
cut
anything,
that's
the
one
Raptor
bet
has
been
identified
as
found
injured
or
dead
in
this
area,
and
there
was
no
evidence
it
was
killed
by
a
windmill.
In
fact,
it's
killed
by
an
Edison
power
line.
So
that
is
something
for
you
to
think
about.
Can.
R
On
noise,
if
any
of
you
been
out
see
the
windmills
when
we
had
windmill
tours,
we
took
a
staff
out
some
years
ago.
You
can't
hear
these
machines
at
their
base
a
little
bit
of
a
whoosh,
but
there
is
no
noise
that
carries
anywhere
near
any
neighbors,
and
so
that's
an
issue
which
really
doesn't
play
in
this
regard.
Thank
you.
Thank.
D
I
Issue,
in
my
mind,
isn't
strictly
Eagles
it's
birds
and
bats
migratory
birds,
birds
that
have
been
listed
here
that
were
mentioned
in
some
of
the
reports,
so
I
think
the
bird
and
Bat
Conservation
study
and
the
risk
assessment,
as
relates
to
how
they
are
presented
in
the
mitigation
measures,
make
sense.
Even
putting
aside
the
issue
of
raptors.
O
With
the
changes
that
have
been
made,
I
think
I'm
very
much
in
favor
of
the
project.
I
think
it's
important
that
Palm
Springs
be
a
leader
in
wind,
energy,
conservation
and
I.
Think
we
should
go
forward
with
the
project
with
the
changes
that
we've
been
able
to
discuss
into
the
applicant
has
been
so
cooperative
in
agreeing
to
Mishnah.
D
I
Just
to
preface
that
I
am
very
much
in
support
of
repower
projects.
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
all
of
these
issues
that
are
very
complex
and
a
very
tall
stack
of
documents
we
had
or
addressed
made
sense
to
me.
I
have
not
dealt
with
these
issues
before
other
Planning
Commission's
have
other
City
Council's
have
I,
haven't
so
I
appreciated
the
study
session
and
I
think
you
know
the
answers
ultimately
made
sense.
So
I
would
move
that
we
approve
the
project
with
the
mitigation
measures
that
we
received
from
mr.
I
Robertson
later,
as
well
as
the
planning
is
that
the
planning
assessments,
those
changes
that
were
on
that
document
as
well
I'm,
not
going
to
insist
on
the
the
Eagle
issue.
I
just
wanted
to
better
understand
it
and
I'm
satisfied
with
that
and
then
I,
don't
think
we're
asking
for
a
bird
hospital
I.
Don't
think
that
mentions
that
in
here
anywhere,
but
regardless
that's
my
motion
as
as
as
it's
written,
maybe.
O
D
As
unanimously,
congratulations,
I,
just
like
to
take
a
moment
of
personal
thanks
three-point
personal
thanks,
I'd
like
to
thank
the
applicant
for
coming
back
for
sitting
through
an
entire
morning
study
session
with
us,
as
a
commission
and
informing
us
I'd
like
to
thank
staff
for
at
the
very
last
minute
mediating
and
our
attorneys,
with
the
attorneys
and
with
the
applicant
and
lastly,
I'd
like
to
thank
this
commission.
The
amount
of
material
this
commission
had
to
read
before
today's
meetings
was
was
immense.
I
cannot
describe
how
immense
it
is.
D
I
had
to
buy
a
special
briefcase
just
to
carry
it
all
and
I
want
to
thank
the
entire
Commission
for
being
due
diligent
doing
their
due
diligence
for
the
citizens
of
Palm
Springs
in
reading
all
of
that
material
and
having
a
very
educated,
thought-provoking
discussion
to
get
to
the
point
we
got
to
today.
So
thank
you
to
all
three
of
you.
Thank
You.
E
D
E
D
He'll
read
the
opening.
The
item
is
item.
4A
is
the
community
housing
opportunities
corporation
on
behalf
of
the
city
of
Palm
Springs,
for
an
architectural
review
application
to
construct
an
multifamily
residential
complex
and
an
undeveloped
3.6
acre
parcel
of
land
located
on
the
east
side
of
North
Indian
Canyon
Drive
between
San
Rafael,
Road
and
Simmons
Road.
The
zone
is
r2
in
the
section
is
to
and
with
that
coming
up
a
staff
report.
Yes,.
S
Chair
woods,
vice-chair
emergency
and
planning
commissioners.
The
requests
before
you
is
an
architectural
application
for
the
construction
of
a
sixty
unit
apartment
complex
59
of
these
units
are
proposed
to
be
reserved
for
low
and
very
low
income
households
and
the
sizes
of
those
units
range
from
560
square
feet
to
1075
square
feet.
They
will
be
one
two
and
three-bedroom
units.
S
The
project
also
includes
a
community
building
that
would
provide
resources
for
the
residents
of
the
community
and
the
project
also,
of
course,
involves
related
landscape
parking
improvements
to
the
site,
with
additional
outdoor
communal
amenities
for
the
residents.
Overall,
the
site
is
3.6
acres
in
size,
so
this
project
is
being
processed
in
accordance
with
Senate
bill
number
35,
which
was
approved
in
2017
and
became
law
last
year.
S
This
project
has
an
affordable
housing
project
under
this,
and
a
bill
is
being
proposed
for
a
ministerial
review,
which
is
that
is
slightly
different
than
your
typical
review
for
architectural
review.
In
that
we're
reviewing
we're
reviewing
objective
design
review
standards
are
an
objective
requirements.
It
does
the
project
meet
objective
standards,
so
those
are
what
the
project
is
being
how
the
project
is
being
reviewed
by
the
city.
They
are
proposing
a
density
bonus
for
the
project
and
the
project
does
have
under
Senate
bill
number
35.
S
In
staffs
review
of
the
projects,
we
took
a
look
at
the
housing
element
and
the
general
and
the
general
plan
land-use
element
and
the
housing
element
was
adopted
in
2014
and
is
for
an
eight-year
period.
Part
of
that
part
of
the
housing
element
includes
the
regional
housing
needs
assessment,
and
it
requires
has
certain
requirements
that
the
city
has
to
provide
affordable
housing
for
various
income
levels.
You
see
here
on
the
slide.
Table
three
dash
18
from
the
housing
element
provides
the
total
number
of
units
required
for
each
of
these
income
levels.
S
So
to
date
we
know
that
only
the
above
moderate
housing
has
been
constructed
and
we
are
still
short
of
providing
the
number
of
units
for
extremely
low
to
moderate
income
housing
level
units
necessary
for
this
eight-year
period.
So
the
project
would
assist
in
creating
59
units
of
the
remaining
units
that
the
city
has
to
provide
within
this
eight-year
period.
S
As
I
stated
59
years,
24
of
those
would
be
low
income,
households
reserved
for
very
low
income,
households
and
35
words
reserved
for
low
income
households
and
would
assist
the
project.
The
project
would
assist
the
city
and
complying
and
meeting
goals
of
the
housing
element
with
respect
to
affordable
housing.
S
S
7
of
your
report,
staff
outlined
all
of
the
development
centers
that
the
project
is
required
to
adhere
to
and
did
note
some
additional
and
did
indicate,
where
applicable,
additional
standards
that
Senate
bill
35
provides
for
affordable
housing
projects,
so
those
are
with
respect
to
the
off
street
parking
and
again
the
setback
reduction
that
is
being
requested
for
the
northwest
corner
of
the
site,
so
30
foot
feet.
30
foot
requirement
is
the
setback
from
San
rafeal
and
they
are
proposing
20
feet.
S
The
parking
does
exceed
the
minimum
parking
required
for
an
affordable
housing
project.
The
Senate
Senate
bill,
35
limits
parking
to
one
per
unit,
one
parking
space
per
unit.
The
project
exceeds
that
number
and
provides
72
parking
spaces
on
the
property
so
to
go
over
some
of
the
project
plans.
What
you
have
here
on
the
slide
is
the
site
plan
and
you
can
see
on
the
left
side.
S
The
southerly
portion
of
the
site
is
a
parking
area
as
well
as
on
the
right
side,
the
northerly
portion
of
the
site,
the
one-story
buildings
are
shown
in
red
and
the
dark
red
in
the
center.
Those
there
are
five
one
story:
buildings
along
the
easterly
side
of
the
site
and
the
community
building
is
in
the
center
building
E
and
then
the
two-story
buildings
are
located
on
the
westerly
portion
of
the
site.
So
those
are
buildings
B,
C
and
D,
and
between
these
clusters
on
the
westerly
portion
of
the
site
are
courtyards.
S
The
Afghan
did
provide
some
color
perspectives
of
various
vantage
points
within
the
property.
So
that
is
what
you
see
here
on
this
slide,
and
the
slide
here
provides
kind
of
a
conceptual
view
of
the
various
planting
tree
locations.
There
is
a
proposed
privacy,
hedge,
along
the
easterly
edge
of
the
property,
as
well
as
trees
interspersed
throughout
the
site.
I
also
forgot
to
mention
just
to
the
west
of
the
water
play
tot
lot
area
is
a
proposed
small
dog
park.
S
They
do
show
some
of
the
various
amenities
within
the
property.
With
this
exhibit
here
you
see
the
proposed
benches
and
some
of
the
seating
furniture
that
is
being
proposed
in
the
outdoor
community
spaces,
as
well
as
the
play
area
splash
pad
amenities
that
are
conceptually
being
considered
for
the
project
here
are
some
of
the
lighting
fixtures
that
are
anticipated
for
the
project,
as
well
as
the
conceptual
signage.
However,
the
final
design
of
the
signs
would
be
reviewed
by
staff.
S
Building
a
is
what
is
just
shown
on
the
screen.
It
is.
The
one-story
units
are
located
along
the
easterly
side
of
the
project.
These
are
one-story
buildings
that
the
height
is.
You
know
the
is
11
to
15
feet
from
the
lower
roof
edge
to
the
higher
roof
edge,
and
these
buildings
are
in
terms
of
their
pad
elevation.
S
Building
B
is
these:
are
the
elevations
for
building
B
as
well
as
some
perspectives?
Is
a
2-story
building
along
the
southerly,
southwesterly
corner
of
the
site
and
another
location
on
the
northwest
corner
of
the
site,
building
C
another
two
story:
building
at
the
northwest
corner,
and
this
would
be
the
building
fronting
San
rafeal
you,
you
see
some
perspectives
here
at
the
top
right
as
well
as
this
building
is
proposed
along
the
southwest
corner
of
the
property
and
building
E
is
the
community
building.
S
S
S
S
Under
the
California
Environmental
Quality
Act,
the
project
meets
criteria
necessary
for
being
exempt
from
further
environmental
review.
This
is
in
accordance
with
sequel
guidelines,
section
15,
two
six,
eight,
which
states
that
minister
of
reviewed
projects
are
not
subject
to
sequa
and
further
under
section
15
one.
Ninety
two
and
fifteen
194
as
an
affordable
housing
project
meeting
certain
requirements
within
those
sections.
S
The
project
is
not
subject
to
further
environmental
review,
so
staff
has
outlined
that
in
your
report,
as
well
as
in
the
draft
resolution,
so
some
additional
information
that
you
did
not
receive
in
your
packet
I
just
wanted
to
touch
on
briefly
here.
There's
a
correction
to
engineering
condition
number
59
as
it
relates
to
the
transportation
uniform
mitigation
fee.
This
project
as
an
affordable
housing
project,
is
exempt
from
making
this
payment.
Pursuant
to
section
eight
point:
nine
zero
point:
zero,
seven
zero
of
the
Palm
Springs
Municipal
Code.
S
So
we
would
just
note
that
that
would
be
a
change
to
the
draft
resolution
before
you
and
also
I
just
wanted
to
note
that
we
have
to
receive
some
additional
correspondence
for
the
project.
The
applicant
has
provided
a
letter
outlining
the
reasoning
for
the
reduced
setback
from
thirty
to
twenty
feet
along
San
rafeal,
and
then.
Lastly,
there
were
three
letters
of
the
letters
of
support
from
members
of
the
public
and
organizations.
S
D
S
Or
not
reviewing
it
under
the
typical
architectural
review
guidelines
that
you
would
see
or
at
where
you
have
subjective
design
review.
This
is
really
objective
review
and
does
the
project
meet
specific
standards?
So
it's
looking
at
specifics.
Basically,
the
the
objective
standards
that
we
would
review
projects
under
and.
D
H
H
H
S
G
E
H
It's
just
a
point
of
interest
for
me:
it's
not
nothing!
I'm!
You
know,
conditioning
anything
on
and
and
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
aren't
we
about
to
adopt
or
isn't
a
part
of
state
law
that
housing,
affordable
housing
projects?
Can
you
use
up
to
user
or
build
up
to
70
units
per
acre?
Am
I
correct
you.
E
Have
an
item
later
on
your
agenda
that
addresses
that,
in
terms
of
the
density
under
state
law,
as
you
recall
from
our
study
session,
that
we
had
on
the
density
bonus
ordinance,
there
are
specific
standards
in
terms
of
what
is
permitted
for
affordable
housing
in
terms
of
the
maximum
density
bonus
that
they
can
request
based
on
the
percentage
of
units
that
are
affordable.
But
we'll
talk
about
that
under
item
2
II
was.
H
E
S
I
I
E
I
I
They
say,
oh
by
the
way,
given
that
the
one-story
buildings
are
in
the
east
side
of
the
project,
I
understand
that
that
was
one
of
the.
Why
they
are
one
story
at
that
location
is
because
of
the
concerns
about
impacts
to
the
Wechsler
houses,
the
steel
houses,
so
I
think
that's
admirable.
It
says
that
these
heights
and
distances
the
the
buildings
in
the
project
would
be
partially
visible
from
human
eye
level.
I
On
the
parcels
occupied
by
the
Wechsler
steel
houses
over
an
existing
concrete
block
wall
that
marks
the
property
boundary
and
stands
roughly
six
feet
tall,
but
would
not
be
considered
a
prominent
visual
or
an
atmospheric
intrusion
into
the
view
shed
for
the
historic
buildings.
And
so
they
conclude,
the
design
and
aesthetics
of
this
project
are
found
to
be
consistent
with
the
architectural
heritage
of
the
city,
as
well
as
the
overall
characteristics
of
the
Wechsler
steel
houses
and
I
agree
with
that.
From
what
I
wanted.
I
A
So
I
know
there's
been
a
lot
of
discussion
about
this
already
and
it
sounds
like
there's
not
a
whole
lot.
That's
going
to
be
changed
at
least
on
our
end,
but
I
did
want
to
just
point
out
that
you
know
we
have
28
one
bedrooms
here
and
then
32
total
between
two
and
three
bedrooms.
You
know
we
have
a
lot
of
families
in
Palm,
Springs
and
there's
definitely
a
need
for
a
lot
of
three-bedroom
homes
and
just
larger
units
in
general.
A
G
Vincent
Nicholas,
with
chalk
community
housing
opportunities.
Vice-President
real
estate
development
to
answer
the
question
on
the
unit
mix
are
1:
2,
&,
3
bedrooms
for
tked
tax
credit
requirements
that
we
follow
and
with
income
levels
and
Ren
that
we
follow
as
well.
The
the
mix
works
best
with
one-bedrooms
at
the
28
count,
and
then
we
meet
the
minimum
requirements
for
two
or
three
bedrooms:
there's
other
impacts.
G
If
we
look
at
three
bedrooms,
it
just
increases
the
size
of
the
the
building
sizes
we
begin
to
to
go
outside
of
the
boundaries
of
where
our
limits
are
within
the
development
of
the
site.
So
it's
kind
of
limits
ourselves
with
trying
to
make
the
correct
unit
mix
that
works
the
best
for
the
project.
We
think
what
we
have
today
is
the
best
for
the
site.
I
hope
that
answers
your
question.
D
L
D
D
This
for
your
information
item
for
a
passed
unanimously,
so
okay
I,
want
to
move
on
to
item
two
II.
It's
an
amendment
to
the
palm
springs,
owning
code,
to
establish
general
standards
for
mixed-use
development
and
to
allow
up
to
70
dwelling
units
per
acre
in
mixed
use
areas
as
permitted
by
the
city
of
Palm
Springs,
a
general
plan.
Can
we
have
a
staff
report
please?
Mr.
E
Chair
and
members
of
the
Commission,
this
is
the
final
of
for
zone
text,
amendments
to
implement
recommendations
of
our
housing
element
and
mr.
Hirsch
mine.
This
is
the
one
where
we
talk
about
70
units
to
the
acre,
so
we'll
get
into
that
in
just
a
minute.
You,
as
you'll
recall,
we've
already
seen
the
density
bonus,
ordinance,
we've
seen
the
reasonable
accommodation
ordinance
and
we've
seen
the
transitional
in
supportive
housing
ordinance.
E
This
is
the
final
one
that
is
recommended
through
the
actions
of
our
housing
element,
and
this
is
relative
to
reducing
the
barriers
to
the
development
of
mixed-use
development
and
specifically
allowing
up
to
70
units
per
acre
where
the
general
plan
allows
that
to
occur,
and
also
as
a
side
note.
This
also
helps
to
implement
several
of
the
recommendations
of
our
ad
hoc
plan
development
district
committee,
which
included
revisions
to
our
plan
development
district
ordinance,
but
also
it
talks
about
allowing
mixed-use
development
without
having
to
go
through
the
PD
d
process.
E
One
of
the
things
that
occurs
in
our
zoning
code
is,
although
we
have
a
definition
for
mixed-use
development,
we
don't
identify
any
zone
districts
where
it's
a
permitted
use.
We
also
have
parking
standards
for
mixed-use
development,
although
those
parking
standards
don't
address
residential
units
as
part
of
that
development,
and
so
we've
got
some
holes
in
our
code
and
for
that
reason,
that's
why
we've
always
seen
mixed-use
projects
come
in
as
a
planned
development
district.
E
It's
just
because
our
zoning
code
didn't
really
address
it,
and
so
this
ordinance
is
intended
to
correct
those
defects
that
we
have
you
our
ordinance.
One
of
the
things
that
we
are
proposing
as
part
of
this
is
to
modify
the
existing
definition
to
clarify
that
mixed-use
development
includes
a
residential
component
and
a
commercial
and/or
civic
component.
E
As
part
of
that,
what
was
missing
is
it
didn't
really
identify
that
residential
was
a
critical
component
of
mixed-use
development
and
so
we're
proposing
to
correct
that
one
of
the
things
in
looking
at
this
is:
do
we
need
to
adopt
separate
development
standards
for
mixed-use
development?
My
response
to
that
would
be
no
that
we
want
development
to
fit
in
with
its
context
based
on
the
surrounding
properties.
E
So,
for
example,
you
know
our
c1
zoning
district,
where
we
require
buildings
or
allow
buildings
to
be
up
close
to
the
street
and
is
really
intended
to
be
a
pedestrian
district.
We
have
a
separate
standard
for
residential
that
requires
them
to
have
greater
setbacks
and
lesser
lot
coverage
and
so,
under
our
current
zoning
code,
mixed-use
development
would
not
fit
in
with
the
context
in
the
c1
district.
E
The
buildings
are
close
up
to
the
sidewalk,
because
the
setback
requirements
allow
that
and
typically
they're
built
out
property
line
to
property
line,
and
so
what
you
get
is
a
very
urban
form
of
development.
However,
because
of
we
have
that
language
in
the
code
about
any
residential
uses
have
to
conform
to
our
three
standards,
if
you
were
to
do
a
mixed
use
element,
the
residential
component
would
have
to
have
a
25-foot
front
yard
setback.
E
It
would
have
to
have
a
minimum
of
15
feet
along
the
sides,
and
so
it
would
be
more
of
a
suburban
type
of
development
in
an
area
that's
intended
for
a
more
urban
form,
and
so
for
that
reason,
what
I'm
recommending
to
you
is
that
we
eliminate
that
language
out
of
our
commercial
zoning
districts,
so
that
mixed-use
development
is
compatible
with
the
other
commercial
development
that
is
already
there
existing.
Does
that
make
sense
so.
E
Correct
it
would
follow
the
standard
form
in
the
c1
zoning
to
spank
you
and
so
again.
That's
another
barrier.
That's
prevented
mixed-use
development
from
occurring
and
we're
proposing
to
eliminate
that
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
is
necessary
in
looking
at
mixed-use
regulations
is
I.
Think
a
conditional
use
permit
is
still
necessary
to
assess
number
one,
how
the
uses
work
together
number
two
to
look
at
adequacy
of
parking,
typically
with
mixed
use
development.
What
you
want
to
see
is
that
you
have
uses
that
are
complementary
in
terms
of
the
peak
hour
of
parking.
E
Let
me
talk
about
the
central
business
district
zone,
as
this
is
probably
the
most
critical
to
mixed-use.
The
central
business
district
zone
is
defined
on
our
maps,
as
essentially
Ramon
Road
on
the
south
Alejo
road
on
the
north,
and
then
it
follows
Indian
Canyon
on
the
east
and
Bilardo
on
the
west,
with
the
exception
of
going
around
in
capturing
the
Art
Museum
there
at
the
very
center
of
the
map.
Under
the
general
plan,
we
would
have
a
base
residential
density
of
21
units
to
30
units
to
the
acre.
E
What
I'm
proposing
for
the
parking
for
the
residential
units
is
that
we
allow
a
half
a
space
per
unit
within
the
CBD
zone
or
the
downtown
parking
combining
zone.
The
reason
that
I'm
proposing
that
is
because,
in
that
area,
there
is
less
need
for
vehicles,
because
we
have
essentially
the
needs
of
daily
life
that
residents
who
live
in
that
area
will
be
less
dependent
on
vehicles
in
that
area,
especially
with
Grocery
Outlet
coming
to
downtown.
E
That
provides
a
full
line,
grocery
store
for
residents
in
that
area,
and
so
one
of
the
things
I'm
proposing
in
terms
of
the
parking
is
point
five
spaces
per
unit
in
that
area.
Now
one
of
the
things
that
the
general
plan
says
is
that
we
should
allow
up
to
70
dwelling
units
per
acre
within
the
downtown
central
core,
which
is
defined
by
the
general
plan
as
that
area,
that
is
approximately
talked
whatz
on
the
south
and
andreas
on
the
north,
and
it's
on
the
let's
see
it's
on
the
west
side
of
Indian
Canyon
there.
E
So
there's
a
very
limited
area
where
70
units
to
the
acre
would
be
allowed
within
that
area.
Approximately
half
of
that
is
already
covered
by
the
downtown
specific
plan,
and
that
does
allow
a
relatively
high
degree
of
residential
density
on
the
remaining
blocks.
That
would
be
permissible
for
residential
development.
The
other
50%
is
outside
of
that
area
and
again
it
would
be
permissible
to
do
up
to
70
units
in
that
acre.
However,
outside
of
that
area,
it
would
be
limited
to
a
maximum
of
30
units
to
the
acre.
E
What
else
we
are
proposing
is
to
allow
mixed-use
development
by
conditional
use
permit
in
the
C
1
and
the
C
2
zoning
districts.
I've
got
a
map
here
on
the
screen,
which
shows
where
C,
1
and
C
2
properties
are
located.
The
purple
is
C
1
Green
is
c2,
you'll,
see
that
it's
primarily
along
North
Palm
Canyon,
as
it
extends
northward
out
of
the
downtown
area.
E
E
That's
one
of
the
things
we'll
be
looking
at
as
part
of
a
general
plan
update
is
to
remove
that
restriction
within
these
areas,
because
we're
outside
of
the
downtown
core
I
would
propose
a
residential
parking
ratio
of
one
space
per
unit.
Again,
while
there
will
be
a
limited
need
for
vehicles,
I
think
it
would
be
more
so
here
than
in
the
downtown
area,
and
so
that's
the
proposed
difference
in
those
parking
ratios.
E
Update
is
to
look
at
other
areas
where
mixed-use
development
would
be
appropriate
and
then
the
second
thing
I'd
like
to
do
is
to
reassess
the
density
ranges
for
mixed-use
development
to
make
sure
that's
appropriate,
but
again
those
would
be
future
actions
that
will
require
amendments
to
our
general
plan.
The
ones
that
I'm
proposing
to
you
date
today
are
consistent
with
the
general
plan
and
are
essentially
quick
fixes
to
remove
the
immediate
bearers
to
mix
barriers
to
mixed-use
development.
That
concludes
my
report
to
you
and
with
that
I'd
entertain
any
questions
that
you
might
have.
E
F
E
Actually,
not
in
the
general
plan,
but
in
the
zoning
code,
there's
typically
a
30-foot
height
limit
in
those
districts,
and
so
that
would
remain
in
place
and
mixed-use
development
would
have
to
conform
to
that
height
limit.
One
of
the
things
that
we
might
want
to
look
at
is
do
we
want
to
increase
that,
and
the
question
is:
how
far
do
we
want
to
increase?
F
E
H
F
A
Just
have
a
couple
of
questions.
The
first
is
about
the
parking,
so
even
though
I'd
I
mean
ideally,
we
would
have
less
cars
in
those
downtown
areas.
We
still
have
to
drive
everywhere
else.
I
mean
people
are
not
going
to
just
stay
in
downtown.
So
can
you
just
explain
how
the
parking
would
work
is
in
conjunction
with
a
commercial
with
residents?
Have
a
special
parking
pass?
How
would
that
work
logistically
to
ensure
that
they
always
get
a
spot
yeah.
E
We
are
not
specifying
in
the
ordinance
that
spaces
have
to
be
reserved
specifically
for
the
residential
uses.
We
will
leave
that
up
to
the
individual
applicants
or
property
owners
to
determine.
Typically,
the
market
would
want
to
have
some
type
of
a
reserved
space
for
residential
units
and
again
we'll
leave
that
to
the
market.
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
is
critical
going
back
to
the
entitlement
process
for
mixed-use
development
is
because
we
are
requiring
a
conditional
use
permit.
E
One
of
the
findings
that
we
have
to
make
is
that
the
parking
will
be
adequate
and
sufficient.
So
if
there
are
spaces
reserved
for
the
residential
uses,
we
need
to
make
sure
that
there's
adequate
parking
for
the
commercial
component
as
well,
but
again,
I
think
one
of
the
benefits
of
mixed-use
development
is.
You
can
take
advantages
of
sharing
parking
spaces
so,
for
example,
while
you
might
reserve
a
space
for
the
residential
occupants,
guest
parking
can
be
accommodated
within
the
commercial
parking
areas,
for
example,
and
so
you're
gaining
greater
efficiency.
In
that
regard,
great.
O
O
I
understand
wanting
to
bring
the
parking
count
down
and
the
way
you
describe
our
city
is
a
little
bit
more
urban
than
I
think
it
is,
although
you
might
want
to
live
in
a
more
dense
area
like
downtown
that
car
in
Palm,
Springs
and,
as
gray
said
to
is
so
important.
First
of
all,
counting
on
that
grocery
store.
O
First
of
all,
we
haven't
approved
the
grocery
store,
yet
counting
on
it
surviving
and
being
an
economic
reality
for
a
long
time
is
a
little
bit
iffy
I
think
because
we
haven't
had
a
grocery
store
downtown
yet
to
see
how
it's
going
to
take
off
I'm.
Just
wondering
parking
is
just
such
a
terrible
problem
for
us
to
deal
with
in
the
more
dense
urban
area
of
Palm
Springs.
If
you
feel
comfortable
that
the
0.5
won't
put
us
in
a
difficult
spot
when
we're
trying
to
review
these
these,
these
applications.
E
O
Me
as
if
a
developer
is
looking
at
a
site
and
thinks
he
can
get
away
with
point
five,
that's
exactly
what
he'll
draw
for
mm-hmm
and
then
he'll
come
before
us
on
a
CEP,
and
when
we
start
talking
about
increasing
parking,
he
will
have
designed
it
in
such
a
way.
So
there's
no
way
unless
you
totally
re-engineer
the
property
that
you'll
get
that
kind
of
parking
number
and
they'll
build
to
the
lowest
to
the
lowest
standards,
so
that
that
would
be
my
concern.
E
D
H
D
H
E
Question,
let's
say,
for
example,
that
there
was
a
mixed-use
development
that
was
coming
in
for
approvals
as
part
of
that
if
they
meet
the
qualifications
for
the
density
bonus
under
state
law,
which
is
also
mirrored
in
our
new
ordinance
going
forward
relative
to
the
affordability
of
the
units.
There's
a
minimum
number
of
five
units
that
they
have
to
have
in
the
development
to
qualify
for
it,
then
they
would
also
be
able
to
apply
for
a
density
bonus
as
part
of
that.
E
H
E
E
H
E
D
E
Unfortunately,
not
what
the
city
would
need
to
do
is
adopt
an
inclusionary
housing
ordinance
that
could
require
affordable
housing
as
part
of
mixed-use
developments,
but
in
and
of
this
ordinance
in
the
process
that
we're
going
through
now,
no,
we
wouldn't
be
able
to
do
that.
I
will
tell
you
that,
as
part
of
the
planned
development
district
ordinance
update,
we
do
have
language
relative
to
affordable
housing
as
being
one
of
the
goals
and
allowing
certain
modifications
of
standards
under
that
ordinance.
F
Song-I
I
would
like
to
express
that
this
zoning
doesn't
necessarily
mean
housing.
It
could
be,
could
be
hotels,
it
could
be
all
kinds
of
type
of
housing,
and
you
know
what
the
advent
of
lifts
and
taxis
and
rental
cars,
and
so
on
that
there
is
a
creative
way
of
transportation
and
my
view
of
trying
to
have
a
developer
come
up
with
the
creativity
of
building
anything
higher
in
the
50
40.
F
You
know
units
per
acre
in
addition
to
the
mixed-use
component
and
the
downtown
component
I
think
in
in
this
sort
of
creative
way
of
how
do
we
house
more
people
or
how
do
we
bring
more
people
to
Palm
Springs
if
that's
what's
desired,
I
think
it.
This
would
be
one
of
those
type
of
projects
in
which
point
five
per
unit
should
be
asleep,
especially
in
the
downtown
core.
F
As
you
know,
you
lived
in
beautiful
metropolitan
cities
and
the
developers
sometimes
charge
more
for
having
a
parking
space
and
those
who
don't
want
to
have
a
parking
space
and
they
get
too
fine
on
their
own.
Whether
they're
gonna
find
their
parking
space,
but
that
encourages
mobility,
creativity
and
so
I
think
our
our
the
our
way
of
being
used
to
how
we
park
should
be
maybe
reconsider
specially
when
it
comes
to
the
downtown
area,
knowing
that
it's
not
even
the
entire
street.
D
D
To
allow
point,
five
I'm,
leaning
towards
the
point
go
towards
one
just
by
the
simple
fact
that
we
are
headways
for
our
busing
system
is
really
poor
at
this
point,
especially
through
downtown
Palm
Springs,
and
as
was
mentioned,
our
grocery
stores
are
not
nearby
and
that's
carrying
stuff
and,
and
although
there
is
lyft
and
uber,
there
is
a
cost
to
lyft
and
uber.
I.
Do,
however,
with
commissioner
song
I
believe
I
believe
in
creativity.
H
G
O
O
F
So
I
know
this
is
a
there's,
an
assembly
bill
for
actually
affordable
housing
and
in
which
it
ties
into
0.5
per
bedrooms.
So
you're
right,
the
it
shouldn't
award
the
same
ratio
and
to
the
number
of
bedrooms
because
you're
correct.
If
it
is
one
space
for
a
four
bedroom.
That's
just
right.
That's
just
a
headache.
That's
gonna,
whereas
also
I,
think
the
fact
that
is
tie
into
a
bedroom,
you're
right
and
the
number
of
people
and
the
car
possible
uses
could
be
tied
to
the
bedrooms.
F
E
Under
a
bit
of
a
time,
crunch
I,
like
the
suggestion,
I,
think
Commissioner
her
spine
and
Commissioner
song,
have
both
come
up
with
good
suggestions
in
terms
of
changes
where
I
think
both
of
them
are
fairly
aligned
in
that
requiring
point.
Five
spaces
per
bedroom
is
an
easy
formula
and
something
that's
very
manageable.
E
A
Those
lines
I
think
that
you
mentioned
earlier
about
wanting
to
create
a
space
that
allows
for
people
to
this
area
to
be
a
walkable
city
and
things
like
that.
We
kind
of
have
to
go
the
way
of
of
creating
that,
and
so
it
is
a
bit
of
a
catch-22
at
first,
because
I
agree
we're
not
there
yet,
but
I
think
if
we
do
figure
out
creative
solutions.
I
like
that
point,
five
per
bedroom
I
think
that's
helpful,
but
it
it
will
kind
of
push
us
in
that
direction
of
becoming
a
greener,
City
and
I'm.
A
H
Okay,
I
will
move
that
we
adopt
the
proposed
zoning
change
and
recommended
to
council
per
staff
with
the
following
change:
that
the
parking
requirement
in
the
CBD
be
changed
to
half
a
unit,
half
a
parking
space
per
bedroom
up
to
one
and
a
half
parking
spaces
maximum
and
then
I
need
some
guidance
on
the
other
piece
of
it.
The
part
that's
out
of
the
CBD,
this
c1
c2
c1.
D
D
O
O
H
E
B
H
E
H
E
Long
story
short,
the
minor
architectural
application,
is
not
required
to
be
approved
by
the
Planning
Commission.
There
was
a
legal
challenge
to
that,
and
so
we've
been
directed
to
process
that
administrative
Lee.
We
are
meeting
with
them.
Let's
see
I
believe
tomorrow
to
go
over
the
recommendations
of
the
Planning
Commission
and
to
see
if
we
can
still
implement
those
so
those
recommendations.
We
will
still
work
with
the
applicant
to
make
sure
that
they're
implemented,
but
the
item
will
not
be
coming
back
for
a
vote
of
the
Planning
Commission.
So.
E
Brought
it
to
you
because
we'd
like
to
bring
forth
the
applications
where
we
have
a
conditional
use
permit
and
a
minor
architectural
application,
we
like
to
bring
those
to
you
together,
so
you
can
see
the
entire
project.
We
like
the
professional
review
and
opinion
of
our
Planning
Commission
in
projects.
We
like
having
your
expertise
on
projects
where
we
can
do
so
so.
I
E
Imagine
we
would
probably
have
no
more
than
2mm.
Is
it
typical?
Excuse
me?
Is
that
typical?
Yes,
it
is
it
is.
We
have
to
avoid
Brown
Act
violations
number
one
and
then
also
in
order
to
keep
the
stakeholders
group
manageable.
We
like
to
keep
it
to
a
number
under
ten
if
we
can-
and
we
also
have
other
representatives
that
we
need
to
include
from
neighborhood
groups,
etc.
We.
E
Did
slightly
different
type
of
a
subcommittee
there
in
that
it
was
only
made
up
of
members
of
the
Planning
Commission.
The
general
plan
steering
committee
will
also
be
made
up
by
members
of
the
public.
We
may
have
a
representative
of
the
AAC
on
that
as
well.
So
again,
it's
looking
at
having
additional
members
from
the
community
participating
in
that.
I
E
Just
a
couple
of
things
mr.
chair,
before
we
dismiss
here
today,
let
me
just
go
into
some
additional
detail
about
the
General
Plan
Update
I'm
working
on
the
RFP.
To
get
that
out.
We
currently
have
four
hundred
thousand
dollars
in
our
budget.
To
start
that
process,
we
will
need
some
additional
funding.
City
council
has
committed
that
in
the
coming
budget
discussions
they
will
include
some
additional
funding
for
that
once
we
are
ready
to
move
forward
with
the
RFP.
The
City
Council
will
most
likely
appoint
a
steering
committee
for
the
general
plan.
E
Secondly,
one
of
the
things
that
I
would
like
to
do
is
to
have
a
training
session
a
joint
training
session
with
the
architectural
advisory
committee.
You
all
need
a
break
from
study
sessions,
and
so
I
don't
want
to
do
it
at
your
next
meeting.
What
I
would
like
to
do?
I
believe,
let's
see,
February
27th
is
our
second
meeting
in
February
and
so
I'd
like
to
hold
the
training
session
on
that
day
again,
so
that
you
have
a
break
from
study
sessions,
at
least
for
the
first
meeting
in
February.
E
Be
going
over
findings
how
to
make
findings
relative
to
applications
we'll
go
over
the
distinction
in
the
duties
between
the
Planning
Commission
and
the
architectural
Advisory
Committee,
and
then
we'll
be
looking
at
the
criteria
for
architectural
review.
It's
going
to
be
a
review
for
some
of
you
who've
been
there
before,
but
we
do
have
some
new
members
from
both
groups
who
would
benefit
from
that
training.