City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire 2022 - 2024 City Council, 12 Jan 2023

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From YouTube: 1.12.2023 City Council Work Session

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1.12.2023 City Council Work Session

A

Good evening, everyone welcome to the work session. Tonight uh we get the date right on the tv.

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Agenda here- but this is our first two work sessions uh this evening- that we are going to.

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Right here, um first go through the audit work session. We have members of melanson.

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As well as the audit community, do we have everybody from the audit committee just.

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uh Jesse had to run up to gunstock to get a sick child who's. Oh bummers, it's ski night.

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Tonight, terrible night for making that drive, yeah and hawks should be here shortly. Okay, thank you.

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um Yeah- and we also have our finance uh team judic, I think it's andrew in the back. Our goal is to go.

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Through introduction from city manager, conard the presentation, questions and answers in the.

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End of that we'll have a couple comma sound, like a plan all right over to you, city manager. Thank you.

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Mayor and good evening, everyone here and watching at home, it's my pleasure really to just introduce.

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Judy who will introduce the team from atlanta and one of the things judy and I think, is most.

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Important to let folks know both at home and those who watch the meeting afterward that we now have.

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Available some documents that would be helpful for them to know about, and judy like to introduce.

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Those as well as the team and good evening good evening, mayor members of the city council, audit.

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Committee and the team from the lambson as alina and scott will go over the annual, comprehensive.

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Financial report- this is a very detailed as a the name states very detailed, comprehensive report.

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Providing information about the financial position of the city at the same time that we prepare this.

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Report we're also preparing what is known as the popular annual financial report or the paffa. So.

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I just wanted to kind of introduce this. This report is very short: it's only like 29 pages.

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It is intended to extract financial information from our act for report, putting it in a means that.

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Is very readable in extracting really pertinent information that might be most valuable to the.

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Citizens, instead of including everything, that's in the comprehensive annual financial report.

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um This is our seventh publication of this report and it also, in addition to some financial.

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Information, it also has information on certain departments on statistical information, some.

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Programs some highlights, and every year we like to pick like a spotlight page this year we use the.

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Courtsmith climate action plan and outline what's coming up in the future for that to take place.

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um Most importantly, it outlines ways for citizens to stay engaged. So there's information in here.

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About the budget process, how to stay, engaged, listening groups and things like that for them.

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To be aware of- and this report is also online- and it's probably the best way to read this report.

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Because it's an interactive report, there's a lot of links that will bring you right to pertinent.

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Information and programs related to parking and public works, and it's just it's just full of all.

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Kinds of information, so we have hard copies, we'll be distributing here at city hall. Also.

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At the senior activity center um in in various places throughout the city and we'll make more.

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Copies if necessary, but again the best way to read it is online. So I just wanted to highlight.

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That introduce that I left a few in the in the lobby and in the back table feel free to take.

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Some hand them out and if we need to publish more, we will, and so with that I'd like to introduce.

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Melina corasak from melanson and scott mcintyre from melanson. Thank you judy good evening. I'm.

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Alina corsica, I'm the principal in charge of the city of portsmouth, independent financial.

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Statement for fiscal year ended june, 30, 2022 and I'm here to present some of these audit results.

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Next stage, please, agenda for tonight is just to have a brief overview of those results and.

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Briefly, touch on what a financial statement audit is and, as judy pointed out, we're gonna go through.

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Some of the highlights that are disclosed in your annual comprehensive financial report or the afro.

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Goodness, once again, we had a successful and timely audit. Thank you to the management team.

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And everyone here we did not note any significant deficiencies or material weaknesses in the.

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Management letter and what is the financial statement added? We as auditors look at all.

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The material accounts that the city portsmouth has and we get the support and documentation.

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And do a testing on it in accordance with the auditing standards, for the purpose of expressing.

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An opinion on those financial statements and management function is to safeguard.

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Assets and ensure property, proper financial reporting that we can express an opinion on.

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So to go through on the next page, a little bit more on what a financial statement audit is.

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This, of course, is not all-inclusive because we're not gonna be here all.

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Night talking about all the other steps, but this is just a brief summary of what.

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Some of those procedures are we go through control testing, for example, in vendor cycle. We would take.

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A sample we would then trace it to support an invoice audit trail over approval process and the.

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Proper accounts that it hit in the general ledger payroll, for example. We would test to time sheets.

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And contracts and again audit a process over the approval of those and we're at hidden general.

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Ledger to make sure it was properly classified, so it's just different type of steps. We do.

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During these control testing cycles and some other control testing, we do is what we call walkthroughs.

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Be walk through an area like a treasury cycle text, cycle general, ledger and closing cycle, but.

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Most of what we do is what we call substantive, in-depth procedures. So we substantially test.

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Cash receivables and we look through and see how your accounts are in compliance with your.

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Procedures and policies. Overall, we see a actual reports. We see a debt document, so we go through.

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All different areas, legal documents, as well with the purpose of two concluding on every.

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Fund every material item that it is properly and materially fairly stated and, if necessary,.

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Sampling plan over any type of other procedures that the auditing standards allow us to use.

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You know, congratulations, the city had it for so many years. It looks like 29 years of 2021.

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Is the last award that the city got? You know just submitted 2022 and I'm sure that it will.

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Get another wonderful award to put it um put on the wall, so congratulations for so many years of.

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Getting this award, um the aqua is really three sections transmittal basic financial statements.

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Statistical section, the transmittal letter, is something that's not audited, provided by.

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Management and really talks about the city profile, the local economy, long-term financial planning and.

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Relevant financial policies and then auditors report is really the only thing that belongs.

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To us, and as you can see, we have unmodified opinion there and other modified means that.

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There was not no modification necessary to the city's financial statements that require them.

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To to be in compliance with general accepted accounts and principles of what they call a gap.

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Following that, we have the management discussion, analysis, what we call mdna- and that is a great.

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Resource has wonderful financial highlights on what the city is doing. um So it's just a quick.

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Financial highlights on different areas: it's unaudited provided by management, and then we.

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Are going into the dual prospective financial statements? So that's really the the big part.

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um So we have, we started the government-wide financial statements, which are on a cruel basis.

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Or long-term perspective and then fund financial statements which depend on the type of funds, it is.

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So if it's a governmental fund, like general funds, special revenue funds, permanent funds for project.

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Funds, those are unmodified accrual basis and then, if it's an enterprise fund of like what or so if.

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It's a fiduciary fund, those on accrual basis. Oh so short-term perspective is the modified accrual and.

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Then the enterprise would be accrual and then following that is uh the note to financials.

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Statements, it's a big section. It basically goes into detail for any material account is closed.

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And there's some of them do require a lot to be disclosed like pension, for example. Probably.

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Will take you a few pages and uh so whatever the standards required to be disclosed, it's.

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uh Some of them are a little bit extensive and then followed uh by required supplement.

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Information, the rsi and that's pension and open and then supplementary statements and.

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Schedules and that's the individual, combining statements that go into the front to none.

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To the different areas in the basic financial statements, and then the last section is the.

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Statistical section another really great section, because there's so much data there, it's so much.

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History there, so it's uh provides the user super historical background on how the city.

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Performed using multi-year data, it's another unaudited section provided by management.

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So we'll start with the budget versus actual for general fund. If anybody is following in the acra.

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It's pdf page 56 document, page 50. revenues exceeded budget by about 2 million on the two.

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Highest categories of that was other revenue exceeded by 728 000, mostly due to dental and.

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Workers come holiday premium and then integumental revenue exceeded by 591 000, mostly due to mills.

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And tax distribution now anything that has to do with that you go back to the mdna and.

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It uh and management provides a nice summary of these significant changes. So on pdf, it's page 41.

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And document page 35. and then for expenditures we had excess or unspent appropriations of four.

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Million dollars, which is right on the following page pdf42 and document page 36, you could see.

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That most of that came from 2 million unspent from non-operating appropriation, primarily due.

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To 2 million state park appropriation that was not utilized, so the budgetary surplus overall.

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Is six million dollars and then on the following page? This is your general fund, unassigned fund.

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Balance and how it did for the last five years, so you could see it's nicely steadily going.

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um Up slightly and on page 39, pdf document, page 33 again going back to mdna, that's where you have.

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Your policy disclosed, so it's 10 to 17 is your um general fund on the signed pound balance. That is.

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Of general fund appropriation is where you want it to be so on that page, you see the explanation.

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That it went up 793 000 from prior year, and um most of that you could go back to the budget.

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Versus actual page, for example, and where we saw the six million dollars budgetary surplus.

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But keeping in mind that there was over five million dollars that was used from fund balance.

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So that's pretty much your primary factors and why it went up by 790 000. So it's six million.

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Less than over five million that you used from your fund balance, so in the next page, like I.

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Said your policy is to have 10 to 17 of general appropriation for unassigned fund balance and you.

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Could nicely see on the following page, where it's right in the middle of you target so right? Where.

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You want it to be so it's been between 13 to 14 for the last five years, so nice and consistent.

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And then they'll go into our bonds and long-term loans payable.

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So on we'll start at the bottom, because that's your, uh we started governmental activities.

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In financial statements, that's blue, so you could see that that uh slightly decreased by.

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Five percent for governmental debt payable and then they'll go to the next one. The purple which.

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Is water and it up a little bit 12 now the next one green is. It looks a little deceiving, but it's.

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Not really 147 up as it appears because it includes a 76 million dollar pierce island.

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Wastewater treatment plant special revolving fund loan program from the state of new hampshire.

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That was already in a payable last year, but it was in a short-term loan pay bill because the.

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Project hasn't been finalized yet and now the project is finalized. Now it's.

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Long-Term payable, so the store, pure silent of 76 million, is now added into the green.

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And then on the following page: we'll talk a little bit about pension. uh This, of course, is.

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um As the city as part of the new hampshire retirement system, so the.

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Way it gets measured, is uh based on a prior year.

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So at 6 30 21, it was about a percent that city had share, was of the new hampshire retirement system.

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Now it looks like it went down a lot, but because it's based it's another one of those that looks.

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A little deceiving because it's based on a prior, so the investment performance was way exceeding it.

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Expectation for that year in year, 6 30 22 act for the pension liability is measured as of 631.21.

H

Just wanted to clarify that. Thank you. So, therefore, your liability went down you'll.

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Notice the other trend next year, because next year, you'll be measured as of 6 30 22.

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Reporting for 6 30 23 and the investments have been in a negative so for investment.

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It's investment loss instead of huge, significant gain like the previous year. So it's gonna go the.

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Other way now I just wanted to point out that the net pension liability is also disclosed in.

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um In your balance sheet, the pdfh 49 document, page 43, the note that is a little extensive is.

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Pdf page 89 document page 83., interesting that the contributions did that did go up as expected.

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For fiscal year, 22 and 23, because they're set two years at a time, was 13.75 up to 30.67 of.

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Honorable wages that the city had to contribute now the interesting pieces of fiscal year 23 to.

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25, it's slightly went down 13 to 27 to 28.68 that the city has to contribute from earnable wages.

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And fiscal year, 23 has something I haven't seen before. It's a one-time state contribution.

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Seven and a half percent of contributions, so that that is something interesting. That's coming up.

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um This upcoming fiscal year- and that's really like the major highlights that are included in.

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Your acra, the reports that we issue is, as, as I said, the opinion on your financial statements and.

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I mentioned its opinion on the basic credential statements, so the opinion does not cover the.

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Introductory section the transmittal section, uh the mdna rsi or the statistical section in in the.

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Back and we've also issued a governance letter and that's just standard required communication that.

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We issue every year and just talks about that. We didn't have any disagreements with management. We.

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Didn't have any increments, they difference. It just covers a lot of what's required to cover back to.

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The governing body and then the management letter, as I mentioned, no significant deficiency material.

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Weaknesses so it's just a comment to prepare a standard comment to prepare for the new gasps.

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Which for fiscal year 23 there's going to be gatsby 94, which is on private public partnerships?.

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And apas availability arrangements and then usb 96, which is similar to gas bd7 that both have.

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Similarities with that, where gatsby 96 is what they call speedos subscription-based information.

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Technology arrangements that are going to be have to be reported similar to the leases that.

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The city implemented for the last 22. so with that I'm gonna turn it over well. I also wanted.

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To mention before I turned out to the mayor that scott mcintyre is here, uh and uh he is here in.

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Case there are any questions on uh firm merger we merged into markham. So if there's any lingering.

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Questions about the firm, a merger or any other lingering questions he's happy to answer those.

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So with that, I just want to turn it to the mayor. No questions. Thank you so much well I'll pass. It.

B

Back to the council, are there any questions on this report and thank you so much for attending.

B

But all the work that you've done on behalf of the city of portsmouth, it's greatly appreciated.

B

Councilor backward yeah. Thank you mayor if you could, just um maybe for the the folks at home. I.

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Kind of explain why the city uses accrual, and you know a lot of us that work in the private sector.

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Revenues are typically consistent month to month, but with the city, even though we get revenues.

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Every month we have two months in particular where we get the vast majority of the revenue.

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Kind of explain just yeah what that means. You know if you were comparing this to a typical business.

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So um you guys all familiar with the cruel. uh The typical business modified accrual is.

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Different and of course, your main fund, the general fund, is a governmental fund, so it said modified.

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Accrual basis, the basis of that is measurable and available. So what happens is when you uh record.

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uh Receivables, it doesn't automatically go to revenue, it has to be measurable and available. So.

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um Oh so adherent is, for example, you would not have it at revenue so to close the books.

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You need to make sure that you have a diff what they call deferred inflows of resources.

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Except you are allowed for governmental accounting um gap, the principles accounting that, in principle.

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You are allowed to have up to 60 day recognition, so gatsby basically says available in measurement.

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Means something that you already have on hand or shortly after your rent. So.

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Any receivable is offset by default inflows, except for up to 60 days after year, rent what physically.

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Came in for revenue, so that is a different um way of doing revenue bookings. So if you're looking for.

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Consistent month-to-month revenue, you know the biggest revenue here is taxes. It's not.

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Gonna, it's not gonna be consistent, so it's uh it is based and, and the city is one person is.

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One of the only review that the way it builds taxes were there's no light to earned revenue.

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Because it's in the rare, so this it's basically recognizing everything in revenue except um you.

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Know anything that came in after the 60 days after your rent, so I don't know that was clear or do you.

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Want me to go into more, no, I think that's clear I just I. I know if somebody looks at like monthly.

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Reports, it can look a little unsettling at times, because it's not as consistent as it would be as.

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If say, we were selling sneakers or something because when we get the two tax bills in it,.

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Has a huge effect so, the month before and the months after, look like our revenue is, is off. If.

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You will, I just had to look at your general fund, revenues and expenditures, and you know it's 97.

H

Million in property tax revenue and 124 in total, so I can't. Unfortunately I can't do that math to.

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Tell you what percentage that is, but it's really a high percentage and you're collecting it all. In.

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Two months of the year and one of the things lean was pointing out, was you collect those in arrears.

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You you, there are other governments in the in the state that they, when they converted many.

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Many years ago, from my calendar year to a fiscal year, they set the structure to collect in advance.

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Of the fiscal year instead of after the fiscal year has has begun. You're collecting 50 of your.

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Revenues after you've spent five months worth of your, but your appropriation, approximately speaking.

I

Great. Thank you.

B

Any other questions.

B

That's right. Thank you, mr mayor. I have uh I wanted to speak to the uh the pensions if.

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I may uh and I have a handout which, if I could send those around please.

C

This is similar to a a memo that the audit committee looked at the beginning of the calendar.

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Year last january, and things have changed a little bit, but not significantly. um The uh in essence,.

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Based and and here a lot of these numbers are drawn on the new hampshire retirement system,.

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Website in publications but they're also reflected in in the act for.

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The the retirement funds managed by new hampshire are about two-thirds funded.

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65 percent, now they bumped up to about 72 percent at the end of june 30 2021.

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Because of the bull market in equities, particularly but then with a subsequent.

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Correction dropped back down to 65 percent, so it's it's sensitive to market returns.

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But what what does 65 mean? It means really that that a retiree has a two-thirds probability that.

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They're going to have their retirement expectations met by the retirement fund.

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And management of the retirement system has clearly stated that 65 percent is, is not what.

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Their goal is even 80 percent, which is sort of a a number which is badied about by by.

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Cognizanti for retirement 80 percent would be great, but but new hampshire retirement.

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System management has stated that their goal is really a hundred percent, which is what it.

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Really should be, and in fact uh law suggests that that's required, so the so the the pension.

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Assets are tremendously underfunded, and that represents the potential liability to the city.

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In terms of how are we going to meet those that call on retirement assets, when you know all 763.

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Of our employees are fully retired the uh so that that goes to the funding ratio. Discussion.

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um And I attach a an article about the 80 percent um pension funding, myth which.

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Comes from the retirement system that that that's really a funding, myth and 100 is what's necessary.

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The second point that I wanted to focus on is that we use the same number 6.75.

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Percent as a discount rate um for a future stream of pension obligations.

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And also for the assumed, retirement or return on on retirement funds.

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And there I attach a second article, which really goes to the point that that's erroneous.

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We really should not be using the same number. We need to be judging these concepts in very.

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Different light from each other uh six point: seven percent anticipated return for investments.

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Is probably about right, given that the fed is tightening and we've got higher inflation rates.

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um But a discount on uh future pension obligations. 6.7 is too high a number.

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And if you want to get an example of the sensitivity which comes actually from the adverb.

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And it's on the second page of my memo, a one percent increase decrease in that discount rate.

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Of 6.75 to 5.75 increases because that discount rate is in the denominator, so a lower number.

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Will actually make a larger result? It goes from 87 million, which is was on the graph.

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That elino showed us to 125 million an increase of 30, almost 38 million or a 44 increase in the.

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Potential liability for just the city's retirement funds, not to mention the state that is a huge.

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Increase and now is that a reasonable assumption? Well, if you take a look at the corporate market,.

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um From pensions and investments, the average discount rate for corporate.

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Pensions rose actually from 5.36 percent as of september 30 of this last year to 5.71 percent.

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As of october 31st, getting up close to the 5.75 percent, that's uh shown in the example.

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So the uh the the higher the discount rate, the more fully funded the pension plan. But our.

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Our s, 6.75 current discount rate is much too optimistic and it really should be much lower.

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If we're going to be closer to what the corporate discount rate is so 5.71, so in many ways we are.

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Under representing the potential liability, future liability to the city for the pension funds,.

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And which is very concerning- and I think that you know is that an issue which really resides.

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Here in the city- yes, but it more importantly, resides with the state and the state pension.

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Service is woefully underfunded relative to the projected needs from the state's retirees. So I.

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Raised this issue, because not only are the impact potential impact on the city's balance sheet.

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But also on the states, but the city needs to be thinking through, perhaps with the state. How best.

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To address this issue and in fact the one-time contribution that the state just made this past.

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Year may be helpful in that regard, but still is not sufficient for adequately addressing the issue.

C

Thank you. Thank you, mr white. um Maybe judy would like to respond to some of that. As I understand.

B

uh Well, first, uh former city attorney, mr sullivan, would always say that the any.

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Government has an unlimited amount ability to to raise revenue because they have the.

B

um The complete and total control on on force in the state- um and I did hear something about.

B

Maybe some bipartisan legislature, out of the uh the house to use marijuana or cannabis revenues.

B

Towards the effort of of paying down the deficit, so watch that uh closely, as I understand it,.

B

Right now, the state is not contributing anything previous to the seven percent, which was a one-time.

B

Fee or one-time uh because there's been some federal money. But if the state went back to not.

B

Funding our obligations under the retirement would that be unaccounted for at the current moment,.

B

Or put it another way, do we expect do in preparing next year's budget? Have we.

B

Expected the state to continue that one-time seven percent right at this at this point.

E

There has been no discussion, I think there's been discussion but there's nothing absolute.

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About for us to take into consideration any contributions from the state at all. At this point.

E

um And jane farini may know a little bit more staying on top of some of the the new items.

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That are on the table and I because I think it got tabled last year and that's where they compromised.

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And gave us the 7.5 is at one time revenue, but at this point I have no knowledge of any contribution.

E

So I I think we in the city of portsmouth are much better at spending our money than the state of new.

B

Hampshire, so the 300 million dollar surplus that they have through governor relief. I hope that they.

B

Can come to at least another one-year agreement as long as they have a surplus, but um mr white I'd.

B

Invite you to the legislative subcommittee meeting that I believe we're scheduling for either next.

B

Friday, this is probably one of the biggest topics that we handle there in terms of making sure that.

B

The state is aware that you know the over the last 14 years their inability to pay, as was originally.

B

Set out into the retirement fund has cost the city reports from 26 million dollars. So it's.

B

It's definitely something that we are heartily in support of the state meeting its head into the the.

B

Obligation when it comes to retirement funds would definitely welcome your thoughts, insights and.

B

Expertise when it comes to making our argument for the state to continue to do so stronger. Thank you.

B

There any other questions.

B

Counselor blaylock, I have one question for um if I may ask judy a question about are: do we expect.

J

To get that award for the 27th year, yes excellent, we just submitted um this accent report and we do.

E

Anticipate getting another award; no, that's awesome, I'm just so impressed um with you know, city.

J

Manager and financial department uh judy andrew for getting a son award for this long. I mean it's.

J

More than two-thirds of my lifetime so and there's many changes and there's been many changes along.

E

The way so we have to adapt to those changes we have to implement any new pronouncements in.

E

Order to to satisfy all the criterias of that award too. So all right, uh counselor lombardi.

K

Thank you mayor. um I view this audit as a risk management exercise right. I think basically, that's.

K

What it is and um in reading through your reports, you found no substantial problems, um but are there.

K

In your opinion, are there unsubstantial issues that have the potential of growing, and I I.

K

Think perhaps like what mr white talked about was: are there any other areas that.

K

Have things that aren't really substantial but um have any chance of coming a risk to the city.

F

If you look at the independent auditor's opinion, it does say that we provide a reasonable, but not.

F

Absolute assurance that the finished thing is materially purely stated, we go into more of.

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The balances in accounts and funds, then anything else in comp in compliance or anticipated issues.

F

That and the odd opinion does state there could always be other issues that would not be found.

F

By by financial statement added based on the nature of what it is, so any other risky areas.

F

For the future, obviously investments going down drastically and changing amounts drastically is.

F

A big one for pension, I can't think of any anything else. I mean this city doesn't have.

F

um That many lessons on their own to worry about so other than those going um significantly lower.

F

Than what they previously were, I mean that's one area, but the city doesn't.

F

Have that many investments, so I can't think of anything. That's gonna significantly be.

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um Like a risque area in in the near future- and I think that's where our financial policies come.

E

Into play to help prevent that for the future, especially when it comes to debt management and.

E

The policies that we have in place in the whole cip process, um you know that's what we want to.

E

Mitigate is anything that would financially impact and put us in a negative balance.

E

um As we were in a negative fun balance, you know several few, you know probably three decades ago so.

E

um You know, that's that's why we have become in a better financial position along the way.

E

By implementing a lot of these policies that we have in hand, but unfortunately there are some.

E

Areas that are kind of out of our control, like, like the pension um liability, the interest.

E

You know so what you know we have to try and manage that along the way, keeping a healthy.

E

Fund balance helps in in that that we can deal with those unexpected situations as they arise.

H

I do if I may alina spoke about a couple of the upcoming gasby or governmental accounting.

H

Standards board statements to keep an eye on 96.. She knows the numbers- I don't, but there's later.

H

This calendar year, the standard setters, will be voting on a final uh new standard. What is expected.

H

To be a new standard that is anticipated to change the whole reporting model, not the whole reporting.

H

Model significantly alter the reporting model. Molina spoke about dual prospective financial.

H

Statements that will probably stay, but she further spoke about long-term accrual based.

H

Financial statements, short-term modified accrual: this is the one that's likely going to change.

H

And you really have to keep you. The city have to keep an eye on that, because it will require.

H

Require a lot of work on your behalf. That's what it's going to require, but honestly, thank you.

B

Council bagley, I had a question, but I was thinking. Do you have a question counselor bagley.

I

um I don't know if this is a more an audit question or a budget question, but I'll just.

I

Highlight um one of the things I think the city does really well? Is the five-year rolling averages.

I

On things like health insurance- and you know so that we don't see spikes from year to year, um this.

I

Kind of hit home on a personal level, so this year I work for a company based out of massachusetts.

I

And our health insurance went up 20 the premiums which is the cap in massachusetts. So we typically.

I

Don't see those huge jumps here in a city because we take that five-year approach. So, oh, oh 10-year,.

I

Approach- it's even better, so I just kind of wanted to acknowledge that that um you know if you can.

I

Smooth out those spikes, it makes it a lot easier for people to to budget their personal finances.

B

It's cancer bagley with that we'll open it up to public comment. I want.

B

To thank helene and scott again for all the work they've done and wish you.

B

The best when it comes to the merger, that's exciting news for you. um Anyone from the public.

B

Who would like to come to the podium? Please just state your name and residents at fort smith. First.

L

Yeah foreign south street, my questions and my statements are not about the audit or the audit report.

L

They're, just something I'd like to call to the attention of the council.

L

So I would like to call your attention to page 35 on the general fund highlights and the detail.

L

Numbers for the fy 22 ending june 30 30. There was a surplus of revenues over expenditures.

L

Of six million 629 200., which is the largest surplus ever or at least in the last 10 years,.

L

As this was the final budget of 20, the 2021 city council,.

L

I'd like you to keep in mind that the budget for fy 23 actually increased by 8 million.

L

I'd also like to call to your attention the cumulative surplus over the last 10 years.

L

Amounts to about 49 million 747 343 or pretty close to 50 million dollars, the average surplus.

L

For the last 10 years is 4 million 974 734 or almost 5 million dollars. So the expectation is.

L

That the citizens pay property tax in an amount to cover services provided by the municipality.

L

The net effect of the fiscal year should be as close to 500 0, 500, 000 or a million as possible.

L

The trend reports um that were requested for from the city manager at the last meeting.

L

From counselor tabor, as you begin to think about doing your next budget.

L

um Should should keep this in mind.

L

um There was a fact in on page 36 here that I found very confusing, as this relates to what.

L

Was requested from councilor tabor in a statement that that was made on the top of page 36. It says.

L

The positive variances in various departments were due primarily to the result of several vacancies.

L

Now this relates to what councilor tabor had asked, because council tabor made the statement.

L

That, during covert we we had laid out people and now we were bringing them back in the next.

L

And the next uh budget, the fact is, the city manager stood by her peeps.

L

During the covet budget session, the city manager did not let us lay off a one person.

L

And, as I recall, we might have laid off part-time people and then they.

L

They were right, they were were put right back then in the next cycle.

L

The budget came around, there were almost across the board promotions and increases to city staff.

L

So that's why this statement is really confusing. I think the city manager did.

L

Her best to keep and attract staff, even in the even even adding 27 positions here,.

L

At this point in time, so I think this- the statement was a little upsetting to me.

L

Because I know how hard some people work to do this- and I just want to I just that statement.

L

Just caught my eye and the fact that there are several vacancies that are still there.

L

um Is no fault of um city, the city administration? I think they did their best.

L

That being said with the uh number uh and amounts of the surpluses that we have going forward,.

L

uh There's a there's something that keeps on happening here.

L

So in the budget, when we prepared the budget you put in the positions.

L

The budget went through the standard process, it's okayed and the par the property tax.

L

Rate is set it's based on hiring those new positions if those positions are not filled.

L

We have a surplus because your revenues still exceed the expenditures, because you.

L

Couldn't expend the money for those people, so what happens to that? It goes back into the general fund.

L

Since those positions were not filled in the prior year, they come up again.

L

And since the amounts that were a surplus that weren't spent because you couldn't hire those.

L

People go back into the general fund, the taxpayers do not see any benefit from that.

L

So I would ask you when you're looking at this for the next budget session and you look at these.

L

Trends to look at this and think about the side of the taxpayer, who is getting taxed again on this.

L

Thank you. Thank you petra. I would we'll have plenty of times to discuss uh and talk about.

B

The budget um this meeting is more for the audit, so if we could limit the comments.

B

um To the to the audit, that would be helpful. I do want to point out things like the 2019-2020.

B

uh Budget where it didn't include the skate park, but that was something that.

B

We added after uh would change those numbers pretty significantly. It was.

B

Just recorded just wanted to point that that out any other comments.

M

Good evening esther kennedy, 41, pickering ave and, in speaking just to the audit.

M

It really hard to believe, as someone who's done, a lot of audits in my personal career that are.

M

Public audits, there were no findings.

M

There were no findings in schools. There were no finding the police. You can have a finding if you.

M

Just misappropriated, what are you changed? One figure in a spreadsheet. You can have a finding.

M

So the fact that we have a perfect audit and nothing's wrong, I find that really amazing.

M

And I have never. I went back and looked today because that's what we've heard over and over.

M

Years in this particular community to see what other communities had and and pretty much everyone.

M

Has some sort of finding and it might be a simple little finding where someone forgot to document.

M

And put in a a figure, but when you have this, many people involved in something not to have.

M

One simple finding and it might not be something I mean just something that they would have to fix.

M

That by the next year, or set up a new process or pro or policy for the next year, state laws change.

M

And school districts and other things don't necessarily always have the capability of.

M

Keeping up but an auditor comes and says this year you have to check all equipment under ida grants.

M

That are um three hundred dollars, even though last year might have been 150, and you don't know that.

M

So you might have to have something you have to work on in your audit, and this happens across.

M

The state in all municipal and schools and whatnot so to say that we have a perfect audit.

M

I find a little scary because that means we're not being truthful. In my mind,.

M

To say there were no findings whatsoever in every one of our programs again.

M

I know we have human people working on this and no one is perfect.

M

I know we get awards, but I also know that we pay into those organizations. Those words are given.

M

So I guess my concern has been now in the past, and I've shared this before that. No one is perfect.

M

And to say there are no findings of a city of this size or nothing that someone put in the wrong line.

M

I almost find that you're kind of not telling us the whole truth and you're also not giving the.

M

Poor through people the truth on their findings, because no one's perfect. Thank you. Thank you for.

B

Councilor kennedy is members of melanson like to respond. There was a uh you know, I guess.

B

um Started off with glowing praise but turned into a bit of an accusation that you know somehow.

B

It was too good to be true. I can clarify the financial statement audits so, as I mentioned in.

F

My presentation: there are no material weaknesses and significant deficiencies. Noted that's what the.

F

Management letter is for there is no such thing as finding in a financial statement audit. This.

F

Is not a compliance audit like a simulated, for example, so what happens in a financial statement.

F

Audit is, and you have to follow, the definition of material weakness or significant deficiency.

F

That definition is disclosed in the management letter. So if you go back to the management letter.

F

You'll see that it has to be something that's so pervasive that routinely is not getting corrected.

F

And fixed on time- and time goes by so it makes it come very difficult to go back and fix. So that's.

F

Just a basic way for me to explain this, where what you're mentioning is um mine like little things.

F

That we would have to be here all year basically to to detect and uh that's not for the financial.

F

Statement added is so, for example, we did find. uh This is an example that happened this past fiscal.

F

Year there are census data that goes to the action now census. Data is just something that somebody.

F

Has to compile to send to the action so they can do their estimates. Calculation calculations for.

F

um Open uh it wasn't big enough for me to put um on a slide, because pension is much bigger for you.

F

Than opex, so there were some inconsistencies with the school department, very minor for city.

F

Was mona school now that is not something that is a management letter issue, because that would not.

F

Materially affect that open liability. So what is uh what would be in? The management letter is to.

F

Say that these sensitive issues were so pervasive that we think that this liability is materially.

F

Affected now that would be on a management letter, so uh hopefully that clarifies what.

F

A financial statement out it is, and what goes on the financial statement management letter.

H

Thank you, mr mayor. I just want to add that, as alina pointed out when she walked through our.

H

Opinion our opinion is that your financial statements are materially fairly presented.

H

We never said perfect, materially fairly, presented. That's what you hired us to do. Thank you very much.

B

Scott and elena any other uh folks in the audience public comment one on zoom, okay, robin russo.

N

Hello, robin russo, 90 fleet street.

N

So I have two questions: one two city management: how many employees do you have in your accounting.

N

Department right now I heard 13 I heard 19.- are either of those numbers correct.

B

Robin this is uh public comments, so um you can speak, but it's not a question and answer session.

B

We can we'll have public dialogue. Isn't that what we're here for? No, uh this actually at.

B

The end of the meetings we we take public comment. We will have public dialogue sessions around the.

B

Budget, where we'll have a more interactive approach- but this is a this- is a state any.

B

Comments that you would like or questions that we can follow up with at a future date.

N

um Well, that really doesn't do any good. I have some questions from melonson on the preparation.

N

Of these financial statements, are they not allowed to speak to me and answer those questions.

N

Allowed no, I I get. The short answer is no um you're happy to to share your questions.

B

um We can take it under advisement here and talk amongst the city council, but the goal of this is.

B

To hear from you hear the questions that you have note them sure, then I will make it in the.

N

Form of a comment then- and you can respond to it so so my understanding is, you have.

N

Somewhere between 13 and 19. employees in your accounting department and my understanding is.

N

That melanson in these financial statements, these annual financial statements prepared.

N

All the footnotes in the whole, in the whole document on behalf of the city.

N

My understanding is also you are using their fixed asset software, so they're. Maintaining the.

N

Books for the fixed asset system, including cip. I wanted to confirm that with them, because I saw a.

N

Document recently that came from their office when someone asked about the details of the.

N

Cip account and also I'd, be interested to know if they're maintaining the bonds are they giving all.

N

The journal entries to our accounting team on a monthly quarterly annual basis. My question is: how.

N

Much work is melonson doing on behalf of the city of portsmouth that the city of portsmouth isn't.

N

Doing themselves with their 13 to 19 accountants on stuff, and why hasn't the city hired somebody.

N

Eligible in government accounting to do this, instead of having our outsourced cpa firm, do it.

N

Because we certainly have the money to pay someone with those qualifications, and so what I hear their.

N

Presentation and they're talking about the great award the city of portsmouth just got on this.

N

Cafe report: it's basically the cpa firm, getting the award, not city employees, so we need to have.

N

Better understanding and you can give that to us any way you want, whether it's in a city council.

N

Meeting or in an audit committee meeting as to how much city employee slash accountants, are.

N

Doing for this kafir and how much the outsourced accounting firm is doing. There essentially are.

N

They auditing their own work is my question on the table and you can get back to me later.

B

Thank you robin. um We can probably get back to you right now. uh Judy the finest department is much.

B

Bigger than uh the accounting, but do you want to list the number of accountants that we have well.

E

um I mean we have, the accounting department is made up, we have accounts, receivable accounts.

E

Payable we have payroll, so their function is strictly that we have um myself and the deputy.

E

Finance director, who is really responsible for all the bond issues, all the calculation of the bonds.

E

um Issuing the bonds tracking, all of that doing all the fixed assets.

E

And you know, I think, there's a um from from things that I've heard over the last.

E

Several months or actually over the last couple of years, is there really is a um misrepresentation of.

E

What the accounting department does and what your finance department does we not just hand over a.

E

Child balance, we maintain everything in-house and it is specific in the rfp and it's also specific.

E

In the rfp that just went out recently that the non-atest services, which is really consolidating.

E

All this information into the full accrual basis of accounting is done by the auditors. They're.

E

Not auditing their own numbers, this is the same procedure that will happen in next year's audit.

E

So the auditors are not doing journal entries for us. We close our books fully. We very seldom.

E

Have any closing entries that the auditors may have after we present the information to them? We.

E

Prepare many of the statements we do the budget to actual statements. We do all the debt service.

E

Statements we I mean we, you know, I can't stress enough that we, you know, we prepare the mdna and.

E

um You know the auditors are there to audit, they come in and they they do their sampling.

E

They do their audit and they do that non-attus service very few, and you can ask the auditors.

E

Here how many governmental entities in new england, specifically that actually do their.

E

Own nana test services and I believe, there's one and that is like portland maine other than.

E

That you know we can do them. We have the expertise. You have your professional accountants in in the.

E

City of portsmouth and we can certainly add more staff, and we can certainly upgrade our financial.

E

Software, in order to do the nana test services we, you know, so it's actually more cost effective.

E

To have all of our information everything that we do all of our documentations uh tracking, I.

E

Mean it just goes on and on and on, um and then we hand everything over to the.

E

Auditors to do that only one piece, and that is not only the audit piece, but the consolidation.

E

For the government government-wide financials, we do the water and sewer on a full approval.

E

Basis of accounting, we use the modified cooler basis of accounting for everything else. Unlike.

E

What has been said that we do everything on a cash basis, specifically not true, so.

E

um I think thanks judy the and the nana test service. That was something that we did was.

B

um A year ago, I believe that we put an rfp out without that, but then later on, the audit.

B

Community decided to include the nana test service, and it was also included uh this year as well. In.

B

The rfp that the nana test service, the audit committee, both the previous one, is currently.

B

Constructed believes the not a test service to be a important part of something that should be.

B

Outsourced from the city of portsmouth, okay, um I, unless there's other folks on zoom, I.

B

Appreciate everybody coming out: um we have another work session after this, I'm going.

B

To take a five minute recess and we'll meet back here, thank you so much sportsman, foreign.

M

B

Welcome back, um I am incredibly impressed that we're only at 7 10 here and we had a work session.

B

Before on the audit so uh setting expectations, um we're really excited to have uh the discussion.

B

On the disposition, uh which is a which is a fancy word for release of the sherburne school, I'm going.

B

To pass over to the city manager and we'll jump right in thanks mayor, uh I in turn will turn it.

D

To my colleague, craig welch who's got some folks with him from his two boards, and craig will run.

D

Us through a presentation and we'll take it from there so great excellent. Thank you for.

D

The opportunity, and just one sorry, I I forgot to do this at the end of of the presentation.

B

The question and answers uh we'll have um public comment. um We expected more. Maybe public comment.

B

For this one than the previous ones, we set this on the uh the second uh portion and we'll just come.

B

Up to the microphone after uh the presentation and the council questions, take it away got it.

O

All right, thank you. My name is craig welch. For the past 10 years, I've been the executive director of.

O

The portsmouth housing authority- uh and uh I have a couple board members up here with me- tom farini.

O

Is the chair of the portsmouth housing authority, board of directors and adam rudig? Is the president.

O

Of pha housing development limited board and we work in partnership to both build and uh and own.

O

And manage uh some 668 units in in the city, the mayor appoints our board. So um so we have public.

O

Oversight as well into the portsmouth housing authority, I know I have other commissioners.

O

Here too, kathy kane and kathy bergeron, michael griffin, uh cara rodenheiser, robin pickering.

O

And kathy kane or, uh and uh yes and adam verdict, so I gotta make sure these are my bosses.

B

um Any single one of them, but um but I was um the mayor and I spoke several months ago and he was.

O

Really interested in the um the sherburne school property- and I know one of his top issues- is.

O

Housing and workforce housing and trying to solve that huge challenge that we have- and I know all.

O

um Nine of the counselors here agreed and made it a top issue of.

O

um Of all of you- and um you know, despite the fact that people do not say that nothing gets done on.

O

This issue in the city- I can you know, definitely say that the progress on solving this challenge.

O

Has been much too slow, but if you'll go to the next uh slide, karen that I do want to stop and.

O

Celebrate an enormous success for the city of portsmouth uh in uh june of 2022, we opened ruth.

O

Lewin griffin place, it's been a fabulous success. We had over 500 people who expressed interest in.

O

Living there there's still 230 on the wait list. There we've recently been honored by the u.s green.

O

Building council, as the building of the year, it was the highest scoring lead project in new.

O

Hampshire in 2022 and we're lead gold certified we're really excited to have receive now a 250.

O

000 grant from the federal home loan bank of boston to create an innovative workforce.

O

Development program, where we're going to be working with great bay, community college and.

O

Others to provide some additional rent subsidy for the residents there who want to go back.

O

To school and improve their job prospects, so we're really excited about that and thank you.

O

Just because people are interested in this and who's living in workforce housing, we have 91.

O

People that are living downtown now at 160, court, street and 21 kids and what an awesome place uh to.

O

Be a kid seven city, employees, four from the school department, six restaurants, four non-profits, four.

O

Hotels: three hair salons, two grocery stores and two jewelry stores and a lot of other businesses.

O

uh And important businesses in our economy have employees who are living now downtown.

O

So tonight we're gonna, I'm gonna go through a presentation. I'll try to do it quickly because.

O

I know counselors have questions and uh and comments and the members of the public, but.

O

Somebody said why are you saying this is sherburne academy when this is uh or sherburne school, when.

O

It's lister academy, I said well because lister uh academy is moving and um and that's what it's.

O

Been called the sherburne school, so we want to and that's uh mr lister there I thought I'd, give him.

O

A a shout tonight for all these uh um done, but we're going to talk about the site, attributes.

O

Not necessarily in this order of the sherburne school property, the building attributes of the.

O

Building itself, some options for housing, some options for other community uses there. Some.

O

Sustainability goals, which we always want to talk about uh 2022 housing market study that.

O

We've published in this past year and want to talk about a couple of the findings there and also just.

O

A quick mention on the history of the partnership. We, the portsmouth housing authority, has, with the.

O

City of portsmouth to do just this, and what kind of financial commitment that we're prepared to.

O

Make to uh to do uh something with the property and also the timeline. What I'm going to lay out.

O

Is uh aggressive timeline to move um a project forward there and we're looking at some specific.

O

Dates where there's deadlines in which we can get financing from through the low income, housing tax.

O

Credit program- and I can explain a little bit of that that later, but we do want to move it along so.

O

And we think there's benefit to that, but at a few different junctions here as we go you're going to.

O

Be asked that question whether or not we want to slow down and have housing later or do it now and.

O

We can talk about that too. First, the history of cooperation between the city and the pha.

O

The city actually created us we're independent special purpose government agency, but we were.

O

Created by the city in 1953 and built 421 units in our first uh or early on with the public housing.

O

Program uh in 1996 we did our first adaptive reuse of a neighborhood school, so we've done.

O

This before the atlantic heights school is now 30 units of senior housing, with lots of people.

O

On that wait list as well, we did the same thing with the cottage hospital right behind you, which.

O

Is now 20 units of senior housing saved that from demolition and uh was able to provide new.

O

Housing in the city same thing, with 2010, with the neighborhood lafayette school, which is 10 units of.

O

Senior housing now 2022 with ruth's place, we don't get any general funding from the city. Sometimes we.

O

Get cdbg pass-through funds and some cip funds that came for our last project, but we operate.

O

On federal subsidies and uh and rents, and, like I said before, we have local site what I don't.

O

Want to talk about today, except for a couple of the findings in the in the housing study, is.

O

The importance of workforce housing- I think we've established that it's important and I think we've.

O

Established that there's not enough of it, and so I just want to point out that this is a very.

O

Well, documented and long worked on a project most recently with the portsmouth housing market study.

O

But also in the recent edc, business retention, port, the 2025 master plan, the blue ribbon commission.

O

That ended up with the housing policy that the city had out of that our own strategic.

O

Plan another blue ribbon commission. All these mentioned housing, so we've been talking about.

O

This for a long time, we're going to proceed with the common understanding that we need more of this.

O

In fact, I had this in my one of the files in my office so portsmouth who can afford it. That's the.

O

1985 portsmouth magazine- and I can show you stuff that we've been having this conversation for a.

O

Long long time and that's why we've got to ask now or never um first, this housing market study that.

O

We commissioned last year with rkg associates. They use a lot of demographic data to uh to make some.

O

Findings here, and also, uh as portsmouth usually does shows up for a community survey. We had over.

O

600 responses where we got some information from uh from people in the city and outside of the city.

O

Obviously, big priority areas- workforce housing, half of the demand by 2030- is going to be for.

O

Households earning 80 percent or less of the area, median income, um the um and also evidenced by the.

O

Fact we had 500 people that applied for our workforce, housing downtown and are interested.

O

In that, so that demand is is, uh is going to grow. A big part of the story is that people who are.

O

Living in portsmouth now are the ones that are hurting the term. Cost burden refers to a condition.

O

Where people are paying a very high percentage of their income on rent in new hampshire, 64 percent.

O

Of the extremely low income in the state are rent burden and if you look at portsmouth under those.

O

2392, according to the study portsmouth households that are making under 50 percent of the area.

O

Median income- those are the folks that are at risk of housing, security and the waterfall of negative.

O

Consequences to families and to the community when that happens, and also the commuting workforce is.

O

Also cost burden too because of the rising cost of transportation. uh The um the idea that we're gonna.

O

Keep issuing housing permits for multi-family housing uh and because we add a lot to the supply.

O

um That we're gonna that pricing, uh the rental prices are going to come down, is a myth.

O

um That there has been no corresponding um decrease in rental costs in the city of portsmouth.

O

No matter how many housing units that we build so um and just the the the case there is that the.

O

Fort smith, housing authority is a local non-profit organization. We've capped rents for on a 99-year.

O

Affordability, covenant uh we're a non-profit organization; we don't make money off of these.

O

um uh And really working with the nonprofit housing community is the way to have permanently.

O

Affordable housing in the city of portsmouth, seniors and accessibility. We didn't have people.

O

That were dying for age, restricted, housing or senior only housing. Some of that we have some.

O

Of that property now, but it was really about accessible housing. So a lot of those folks are.

O

Seniors uh that in the survey current home does not meet their accessibility needs, but they don't.

O

Want to leave the city to find suitable housing, we're an old housing stock here, most of the owned.

O

Housing stock was built before 1960 and the rental housing stock before 1980 there's huge benefits.

O

Again to the community not just to the culture of the community, but in terms of services and.

O

Our public health to have people aging in place and be and stay local. I get calls all the time.

O

From people who are, you know, can't walk upstairs in their old new englander and would really like.

O

An accessible and affordable place to live and one one-story living uh strongest needs cited.

O

Workforce and moderate income housing and then also housing for the low-income households and.

O

Also specialized in service supported housing, the specialized and service supported housing.

O

If you look at the data, you may not see anything striking about that, but I consider that under.

O

Reported a lot of the specialized housing needs that we have and other communities have are for.

O

Populations that are largely invisible or often invisible to a lot of people. And but I can tell.

O

You, after 20 years in the housing, business and 10 years doing it here in portsmouth.

O

That there's some really significant needs for some some different kind of housing that.

O

Is not just housing but comes with some kind of support for the residents that live there.

O

For instance, people with physical disabilities, people with mental.

O

Disabilities, people with developmental or serious intellectual disabilities victims.

O

Of domestic violence, the homeless veterans, transitional housing, there's all kinds of.

O

Housing needs that are not necessarily workforce housing. We, the demand, is for.

O

Workforce, housing and everybody believes we should build more, but I think, having.

O

A conversation about other specialized housing and supportive services is important.

O

The what we're using the word village, because what we're envisioning for the city is a is a mixed-use.

O

Type of uh of site that includes both housing and some other non-housing uses that may be have some.

O

Synergy with the housing that could be on the site, the also some service supported housing could be.

O

A part of it recreational uses program, space, open space, food, a lot of other things could be.

O

A part of what is developed and what? uh What is programmed out at the sherburne school property.

O

uh I think it's a moral imperative that we always talk about sustainability at every opportunity.

O

That we have, we did something special downtown, uh being leed certified and it's a super high.

O

Performance building and energy efficient building, but energy efficiency and clean energy is only a.

O

Part of the sustainability um goals that we have you know, including reducing in inequalities and.

O

Industry and innovation and infrastructure. So many of these touch on the work that we do and.

O

We really have some aspirations to do a lot with, uh on the energy front, coming up either with a.

O

Passive house or a net zero type of development, we're studying right now, the sherburne school.

O

Site sherburne school is a five acre site, just a tiny bit over a five acre site.

O

35 sherburne road uh sort of a gateway to the pan away neighborhood. um It does have a softball field.

O

A regulation softball field on the property, it's in a municipal zone uh properties owned by the.

O

City of portsmouth and it's operated currently by the portsmouth school department as lister academy.

O

I think everybody here knows that lister academy is in the process of moving out to the community.

O

Campus, which is the reason why you're talking about the disposition of the of the school.

O

um It's uh it's an uh in an interesting zone as a municipal zone because it abuts.

O

Both office use industrial use and residential use. So it's a pretty.

O

um Unique piece of land and really an outstanding location. uh The blue is uh some residential.

O

Neighborhoods, this is also walking distance from some really uh large uh employers uh that are.

O

Right there, including portsmouth hospital and highliner foods and liberty, mutual northeast.

O

Credit union, uh it's also walkable, there's a pedestrian path and a bike path that goes.

O

Right to the c j terminal that goes direct to boston and direct to new york, so as a commuter.

O

Location, uh it's really great and it's about as easy on and off the highway as you can get for.

O

um For property here those are some of the other uses. Like I said it's really connected, I mean.

O

There's even a bike that could existing bicycle infrastructure uh that will that lead for right.

O

Here, right down to where the new skate park is going to be in plains field, and it's really.

O

The closest housing to peace and to all the large employers at peace. So it's a great spot.

O

It said there's a on the site yeah. It is a five acre site, but about two and a half.

O

Acres are really, we think, are viable for new development if the school stays where it is.

O

There's more housing opportunity if the school, if we were able to use that footprint for new.

O

Housing but but we think it's about a two and a half acre for new development. There.

O

We hired an architect a week ago and we hired a civil engineer today, so we're.

O

Moving quickly and we'll talk about that later, so this is uh this is just the first.

O

um Blush of something that could be possible um out there if we're talking about other.

O

Community uses maybe a mix of housing, types between rental, multi-family or town homes or.

O

Some land for some additional construction of other community uses or other kinds of housing.

O

um The you know we you get when you get density, you get more affordability, but the.

O

um There's a lot of factors that go into figuring out how many housing units and.

O

What kind of housing units will end up on this site, uh and so this is just the first example.

O

um We've, uh you know we're in a housing crisis, so putting a lot of housing units.

O

When you have an opportunity to is the right thing to do, but there's some really serious.

O

uh Financial constraints that come with low income, housing tax credit program uh and.

O

um And there's possibly a phased approach because of how that program works. So um so there's still a.

O

Lot of open possibilities there, uh the building uh the 17 000 square, foot building, uh that's.

O

Currently operating as a school, uh although it's got very significant, deferred maintenance.

O

What we, um uh in fact, if you go to the next slide to um karen, you can see that a lot of.

O

The trim and the windows um the um are in really bad shape. It's got a pretty old heating system.

O

Hvac system- and so it's pretty weathered building, but it's a pretty cool building.

O

Built around 1930 there's a a gym in there and uh so there's the the uses for the building.

O

um There's several classrooms at the end. What we believe about the building right now is.

O

That, in order to bring to do an adaptive, reuse of that building and turn it into housing, the.

O

um The per square foot costs to do that for the 12 to 15 housing units that we think we could put in.

O

There may far exceed the total development costs that are allowed under the low-income housing tax.

O

Credit program, which is just a long way to say it's really expensive, to do this and not.

O

That we haven't done it before both the connors cottage and lafayette school were very expensive.

O

I wouldn't have attracted private capital, maybe it didn't make sense, but we pulled it off anyway, but.

O

uh But it we got to go into it with our eyes wide open about what that building could be. For other.

O

Uses or whether or not it should be demolished, there's there's some opinions that that it should.

O

Be um so the uh the opportunity uh is, I think, for a mixed-use type of village. um I see, like I said.

O

There's we have a housing crisis and I see um a lot of housing units um the um we want to have.

O

High aspirations and goals for sustainability, we're creating permanently affordable housing.

O

There's a notion that somehow someday it's going to be sold and turn into um you know some market.

O

Rate housing, that's a myth, that's not! uh This is these. This is permanently affordable. Housing owned.

O

By us we have no other incentive to raise rents or sell it other than our ability to operate it. So.

O

Other community services we're a local nonprofit developer, as I said, supporting a diverse economy.

O

And also an ability to get some more people um aging in place who are moving out of their homes.

O

Challenges like I said, the scarcity of funding for this kind of stuff, but we did pretty well downtown.

O

Figured it out speed to market real estate markets change, there's a a lot of reasons to um to uh wait.

O

I don't think that the reasons to go slowly are often not good enough to balance the need to move.

O

It along one reason why we're 20 to 30 000 units under built in affordable housing in the state of.

O

New hampshire is because this stuff takes so long and it shouldn't take so long and you've got land.

O

That the city owns that's an outstanding piece for for development, and our goal would be to start on.

O

A process that's going to give the city a master plan and to move towards developing it. Now the tax.

O

Credits that we can use that could bring up to 15 million dollars into the city of portsmouth.

O

To invest in this kind of infrastructure, you're only able to apply for once a year and that's in.

O

August, if we can have permits in august, then we can get something built and get something.

O

Occupied in 2025., the clock is ticking for a lot of people and finding housing. That's meaningful.

O

uh That year and real estate markets change and things change so so doing it now, I think, makes.

O

A lot of sense there's a million ways. Something can push us into that 2024 round and that would.

O

Be okay, but I think we should approach this with some urgency. There's a high probability of phases.

O

And there's some complexity when you start mixing uses because you start mixing funding sources and.

O

Procurement, that starts to get really complicated, how those cast cost allocations work and how.

O

To design something cool on a really limited budget, but I think we did that downtown well,.

O

uh Capital sources: we could skip over that there's a lot of them to pull something like.

O

This off, but the capital stack, can include some of these things, uh which include both loans and.

O

um From our organization, but the federal home loan bank, private banks uh bank prop bought all the tax.

O

Credits for this state of new hampshire community development, tax credits we had there were 31 built.

O

Businesses that stepped up to buy tax credits for this building and to invest in this building, which.

O

Was terrific city financial commitment? That's for you to decide later. I think, if we're going to talk.

O

About other community uses and there's a appetite for continuing to use the gym or the school and.

O

Renovate the school or provide cip funding for some infrastructure later on. But but this is a.

O

Project that you know the mayor asked me to study it see if there was some housing out there and.

O

We're doing that because we build housing and there's no financial consideration from the.

O

City, that's required unless you want to and- and I will ask later, but it doesn't mean that there is.

O

What we're doing is we're paying all the pre-development. We will play all.

O

The pre-development costs ourselves- we've already approved 150 000 to go towards this.

O

This is not city uh money, uh taxpayer, money, we've already hired architects.

O

Survey civil engineer, environmental uh are total at risk, downtown and ruth's.

O

Place was about six hundred thousand dollars. So that's what we're prepared to spend to.

O

um To get permits and get everything designed it's complicated stuff. Now the timeline.

O

um Where right now, based upon tonight, we'll enter into a master plan development process.

O

Which we're intending on finishing in february? If we can finish that in february, we'd like to.

O

Present a master plan to the city council at your march 6 meeting and we'll ask you.

O

To refer it to the planning board for an advisory opinion after that soon, after that, after the city.

O

Council gets it back and it's going to make a decision about the disposition. Then we'll.

O

Enter into a land lease agreement sometime later, this spring will push for getting land.

O

Use permits in hand we can start if we do our awarded tax credits, we'll start construction.

O

Of phase one, at least in 2024, and be leasing up in 2025 and be on to our next one. In 2026.

O

uh You can blow through all those I was just highlighting um those people. So that's my.

O

My punch line is that we could, we can add housing, there's a lot of opportunity to add housing um out.

O

On the sherburne school site, we could get going on it right away. We do not need to have decisions.

O

About what happens to the school building in order to get started on a housing project, if the.

O

Kids needed to stay there for a long time, because that process was going slowly that wouldn't make.

O

Any difference we've got plenty to do there and it could cordon that off and keep the kids safe while.

O

We're doing that so thank you, craig and thanks tom and adam for coming on. We'll have I'm sure some.

B

Some questions that I would just like to start with a with a comment. um I think housing is.

B

It's it's one of the most visceral issues that we have you're, not wrong uh to point out.

B

um In 1985 uh you know this was an issue. I think my when my aunt was mayor. She was saying.

B

You know running on a campaign that you know: uh neighborhoods are being destroyed by developers.

B

So you know it's not it's not an uncommon theme when you live along the water to figure out where.

B

Everybody's going to live one of my proudest moments uh as mayor was when I was stopped by a.

B

Kid that I grew up playing little league with works for the city and told me I got in and.

B

A lot of people tell you a lot when you're on the council, and so you kind of just smile and.

B

Shake your head all right, you know, and you know you kind of could tell that. I.

B

Didn't know what he was where he got he's like I got into the the ruth griffin place.

B

So he's one of the seven city employees that uh that is there and he was so incredibly proud.

B

um To be able to call portsmouth home um a place where he grew up uh a place that he wants, that.

B

He works for uh that. He wants to stay in it's incumbent upon us to figure out ways.

B

um To help the housing situation, a lot of folks think that we can require developers.

B

To do anything, the rsas in the state simply do not allow us to do that. They don't say hey you.

B

Can mandate 20, you can say through a variance through this and we're going to close, hopefully.

B

Some of those loopholes here, but we can't say this apartment or we're building this hotel. So this.

B

Money goes towards a you know. Our our affordable housing fund, which we have it's just not funded.

B

um It's it's not possible! So when we look at areas uh that we can help, one of those.

B

Areas is working with the land that we own with the partners that we have with the non-profits.

B

um Specifically, uh the one that we have oversight through uh the power of appointments over and.

B

That's the the pha, so I'm really excited uh to uh to work on uh this next project. I hope that we.

B

Can bring an open mind to what uh workforce and below market rate housing is uh in portsmouth? I.

B

Think that you know, one of the lessons learned uh through the ruth griffin place is that we gotta.

B

We gotta name this after somebody that everybody loves uh as soon as possible um because nobody's.

B

Nobody's going against uh ruth, uh so we got to figure out a name uh for this equally.

B

um As uh as impressive, but I'm I'm hopeful that the questions that that we have align on a mission.

B

And a speed of this that will get people more people in housing than less and that we can make.

B

Sure that on our watch, portsmouth is a little bit more affordable than than we found it. So with the.

B

Those comments counselor done. Thank you, mr mayor. Thank you craig. uh This is extremely exciting. It's.

P

The first time the city is considered, building a brick and mortar um property or assisting with.

P

It I think, since 2016, when the parrot app was briefly considered and I'm wondering on.

P

The timeline one of the major things you had for the city council was the referral to the planning.

P

Board, but beyond that, how else could we help the um thank you for asking asking or offering.

O

um Well, there's a variety of ways: I mean the housing, the housing.

O

Policy that passed in 2016 was pretty clear on a few things and it uh one of.

O

um Those things was to make the the permitting process more streamlined and easy to do. That's.

O

um That's hard, uh you know, soft costs are really expensive. uh This last time went.

O

Around the city waves and permit fees to make it more possible, there was, um there was a small cip.

O

Contribution your capital improvement plan contribution to provide the access road and.

O

Put some pedestrian park improvements that was helpful in in improving the property and.

O

um um So there could be a variety of ways like that that we're exploring now to that the city.

O

Could further help for sure, with arpa money or cip money, or something like that. Thank you.

B

uh Assistant mayor, thank you. My first question would actually be directed towards the city.

Q

Manager, and that would be to highlight the timeline that the school department has.

Q

um Suggested to remove students, the relocation of lister sure.

D

um Thank you for the question in july of 2022, I was part of a group of staff that went to a.

D

School board meeting to seek their vote to declare that they would relocate the lister.

D

Academy program to the community campus and when they did that with with no date specific in the.

D

Motion they would declare the sherburne school no longer necessary for educational purposes,.

D

So with that in mind we can move forward. I think craig's point is well take in that, even if the.

D

School needs to remain there for a period of time, while we work out how how to best.

D

Relocate them while they find the the funds to fit out the space within the area. We've.

D

Identified in community campus, it sounds like the two uses can co-exist or overlap. Certainly,.

Q

Thank you and thank you craig in the board, my next question um and again these would be roundabout.

Q

Figures, given your experience of the development in griffin place, obviously with the very primarily.

Q

Designs, ideally, what is a number of units and or residents that you are, that pha is looking for.

Q

Guidance to or giving guidance to, your architects and engineers to try to fit into that space. Yeah.

O

We've got to make some decisions about that pretty quick quickly. Right now we started with a pretty.

O

Wide range and gave a charge to consider what we thought based upon financial constraints in.

O

The land was anywhere between it's a big range, but anywhere between 80 and 160 units. So far,.

O

What we've found at the top of that range is that there's there's more pavement, there's more parking.

O

That's required where it starts to get. You know we really want to aspire to have some open space and.

O

Some recreational opportunities, the easiest thing to do under the low income, housing tax, credit.

O

Program is to do four two phases of 40 units each, but I think um you know, I think we leave something.

O

On the table, by doing only that number of units so we're in that kind of range, and it depends.

O

What you know how much land we're able to do- I mean obviously a 17, 000 square foot footprint.

O

Is takes up a lot of land that could be used, for you know a whole nother whole another 40 units, so.

O

Depends on how you look at it, but that's what we're that's what the master plan was. Thank you.

Q

um And then another question: um we we hear a lot of micro units and smaller units as a potential.

Q

To solve some of our housing crisis, it it read to me in the in the housing study that we actually.

Q

Need larger units we're looking at two to three bedroom units and that need do you see that need.

Q

um Being filled here uh well, you know we looked at a private market too, because they they know a.

O

Little something and built mostly one two bedrooms um here in portsmouth, and so we.

O

Have some risk to manage as well? But as you say that the housing study does say that fort smith.

O

Household size is actually growing a little bit and that the larger three-bedroom units.

O

Would be good to build some larger three bedroom units, so we we would definitely anticipate uh at.

O

Least, some of the units being three bedroom units we went up to york. Maine has a house.

O

At small housing authority they just opened a building with some three bedroom units and they.

O

Say they went first and I think uh west end yards uh a different product but said the same thing so.

O

um So, yes, we think a mix of sizes, but yes thank you, uh council, bluffton councilmani. Thank you.

J

um Thank you craig. Thank you, tom and adam for your presentation. All your work. I've done so far.

J

um So I'm on the historic district commission, I'm on the rec board. I'm.

J

Also on the landings committee, um so I have a lot of different um interests here.

J

um I know we talked about saving the building. We talked about the other, as mentioned, raising the.

J

Building, I don't know if we've looked at the cost of that, um I think saving the building.

J

Would be great, um I just that was one of my questions. I know you mentioned um open space.

J

I was glad you touched on how many units um pha was looking at, um so my other concern would be.

J

Like the softball field, if that was occupied by a new building, have we reached out to the youth.

J

Softball that uses that or how much open space would there be if that was taken up, um I think.

J

Yeah, the softball, um the the rec study. uh I don't know exactly what you call the recreational needs.

O

Needs study is going to say when it's fully complete, that, based upon other communities of.

O

Similar size that we should have for softball fields uh in the city of portsmouth, the youth.

O

Softball social and portsmouth rec department tell me that there's three that are using this would.

O

Make it two um we'd, of course, be very supportive, and I know the softball folks that I've spoken.

O

With would love to have a field uh um you know or more fields to play on and something to replace.

O

This field, if it goes but yeah, it is used for youth softball. It's uh um not used for adult.

O

Leagues, but it is used in the in spring and summer. I just have another question. um Obviously you have.

J

To look at all options- um and I guess just it just to clarify for the people watching at home.

J

um People live in this neighborhood, it's you know if they're even concerned about having.

J

Any negative impacts in the neighborhood, for instance, you know the amount of cars a lot.

J

Of traffic, or just you know, having housing that's less more affordable than theirs. They would worry.

J

That the value of their homes, you know, might go down. If you could touch on that yeah. No, the.

O

um Yeah, I remember folks that said downtown that it wasn't a good place because it would be a high.

O

Concentration of low-income people in one place- and I thought I don't think that's our problem in.

O

Portsmouth, I think we have a high concentration of high income people and we don't really have.

O

A problem with a high concentration of uh of uh low-income people, but I think what we're finding.

O

And uh you meet the residents at ruth's place, then you'll quickly uh understand who we're.

O

Housing here and that I would hope that it's a as a gateway to the community. That would be great.

O

For the neighborhood, whatever we build there and it would be additive traffic impact, it's.

O

It's uh there are some neighbors there, but from a real estate location standpoint, it has almost.

O

Less traffic impact than I've ever seen on a on a site. I mean it's right off above major highway, so.

O

I wouldn't think that that would be. I think people worry about traffic, but I don't see that that's a.

O

um Impediment at all it's on a major interstate highway, um even even density. uh I know we we.

O

Can't do it, but if you're in a um or that it's extremely unlikely, but if you're in a housing.

O

Crisis then, why not go up high? I think what we're going to end up with is because a cost is a force.

O

You know four-story building, but if you're in a housing crisis, why wouldn't you obtend.

O

Stories and if you're going to go up 10 stories, why wouldn't you do it here? But but we want to.

O

Do something that fits into the neighborhood? Obviously, there's a fish stick plant and on.

O

You know a office condo that are there as well, so it's not necessarily something where you're going.

O

To try to fit something into a neighborhood that has those kind of mix of uses and just one last.

J

Question um as far as in the current building, if we were to preserve the building, what uses inside.

J

The building would they be micro units? Would they be saving the gym for like recreational use, for.

J

The neighborhood, or just I don't know what all the options the pha was looking at for in the.

J

Building yeah I mean I, uh I got four kids and athletes and I hate, for you know we need indoor.

O

Recreational space uh for sure the question is who's going to pay, for that does the city does.

O

The city want to you, know, renovate the school in order to provide that or is doing that at.

O

The community campus a bigger uh priority, that's what I I don't know, but I I love having indoor.

O

Recreational space that was a courtyard uh that jim was a courtyard before that, and you could see.

O

Some benefit if you were going to build housing around it's sort of a u-shaped original building.

O

um There could be some benefit to the gym actually coming down, but there's some uses for a structure.

O

Like that, we just don't know right now enough to understand what it would take to really renovate.

O

The building up to current code, but I do like to remind people it is an operating building right.

O

Now uh you know it's, not it's not condemned, it is, it is operating, but it does need some work.

B

Thank you, I think just I'll get to councilor embardi, but I think it's worth repeating that.

B

The the presentation that we saw tonight is is behind the building. I think some of our longer.

B

Conversations around this are what's going to happen in the building itself and then with.

B

Regard to the softball field, you know looking forward to that rec need study, but I think.

B

It's going to be correct around four. This could serve as an impetus and where the city might be.

B

Expending funds again, I'm one of nine, but it might be in terms of accelerating the path to the second.

B

Turf field out at community campus and including you know, an opportunity for softball there to line.

B

It for for softball and and things of that nature, but I think that you know our goal.

B

Tonight and in the in the weeks uh to come, is to to decide whether or not behind.

B

um The building is appropriate for uh housing and if it is to move forward with that, knowing.

B

That the the building and the use of the building uh will likely have much.

B

More conversations uh with you know your neighborhood rich, but uh panoa in general.

B

um And understanding you know what uh what we need there to make sure that this feels.

B

Connected uh to the rest of our uh community and at the end of the day, people aren't worrying about.

B

Housing values, but instead thinking about this is a additive to my experience, living in portsmouth.

B

Council lombardi. uh Thank you mayor um a couple. Well, an observation in our in.

K

Our previous work session on the uh audit there's a indication of the largest population.

K

uh In portsmouth is that of millennials, and um those are people who are having children.

K

um And so uh it seems to me that that is perhaps at least part of reason to move to some of the.

K

Larger units in this location as well then, the question I have is about the the infrastructure.

K

To the site, and has there been any analysis of that as of yet my guess is that it needs work.

K

And is maybe that's a way in which the city, through its um cip and plan for basic.

K

Infrastructure work throughout the city could contribute. We we're actually at public works.

O

Today, for a sort of an informal uh meeting to look at the gis stuff and talk to the folks, there.

O

Who know about infrastructure, there's actually uh on schedule for this summer to replace sidewalks.

O

um Out in that particular area, so it's going to be a little little work done uh there as.

O

Well, so that'll be a part of it, but all that it does service by water and sewer.

O

um And uh to extend that, like you know, be nice to have two curb cuts in and out of the property and.

O

So they'll be a little development there that that kind of infrastructure uh help is real.

O

Would be really helpful for us to do something? There's not a lot of capital sources for like.

O

Energy efficiency and that kind of stuff, so we'd like to be ambitious on one side, but we've got to.

O

Find other capital sources to do it so anything that the city um like that does is really helpful.

B

Thank you. It's custom party, uh councilor, bagley, yeah, oh and then thank you. Honor I've got a couple.

I

Of questions the first is um in this location. uh There will not be sound barriers erected. However,.

I

It is right next to the highway and with the population density that we're talking about, they.

I

Would have qualified for sound barriers, however, the the way the law is written, uh future projects.

I

Don't qualify so to speak, like that that window has been closed, it won't be grandfathered in how.

I

Do we mitigate um the noise level being so close to the highway? Yeah we've looked at the the sound.

O

um Quite a lot so far, although it tells you a little bit about something at the building.

O

Because this the sound next to the highway, when we measured, it was actually not as loud as the.

O

Sound inside the gym with that hvac system going um but uh but it is uh there is, we think we can.

O

Solve the problem with a berm and maybe and the positioning of a building there, I think of the.

O

Best way to deal with the sound is to use use a building for it. There's nothing, no trees that.

O

Are going to come down? Most of the vegetation is within the state buffer, but so far with the civils.

O

And stuff we we've talked to, we think we can do a lot of mitigation um with some some sight work.

I

And then my second question is um why I appreciate your aggressive timeline. I am concerned that.

I

We may not have consensus yet in the community that this is the highest and best use there.

I

There are a number of non-profits in the community that may um have other options.

I

That they would present to the city for use of the land, or there may be other uh options.

I

To use the land other than affordable housing, so why? I wouldn't want to delay the project at.

I

The same time, I wouldn't want to move so quickly that we didn't give the city a chance to digest.

I

um What options are on the table, and and even if we do go forward with a with a pha project,.

I

It sounds like there's multiple layers, you know, do we keep the server in school or do we do.

I

We raise it and put in different uh layouts and there may be multiple proposals just from pha. So.

I

Understanding the speed at which government works and looking at your timeline.

I

um I guess I have concerns, I don't know if we could overcome them or not, but I just want to put.

I

That out there I appreciate your concern. Counselor, I think it's a valid and well-founded one.

R

And it is an ambitious timeline. It's a very simple equation. If we don't make tax credit.

R

Application by august, then it's 2026.- if we don't make it by august the year after it's 2027 and.

R

Certainly, all of these other needs are things that we would entertain and participate in as best we.

R

Could, in a way that would facilitate the city's needs. Our mission, however, is a fairly narrow one.

R

Get tax credits for what we can build under federal law, and so I do think it is ambitious.

R

And I do appreciate the concern, but I would also say I guess it's a question that the.

R

City weighing the goal of workforce housing sooner than later and continuing to study it.

R

Great thank you and again uh on that point. The building itself is uh where I think some.

B

Of the focus and questions around what other uses could that building be by no means uh is.

B

That decided and did we get um well any input from the neighborhood on that, but I think that the idea.

B

That, when we've looked at areas and city owned land, where we can make a a difference when it.

B

Comes to affordable units, this is according to the pha, the best place for housing in city-owned land.

B

That we currently possess could own more. You know community campus, a lot of acres out there, but in.

B

Terms of traffic and general location, this seems to be the best is, according to our partners of the.

B

Pha, I wouldn't want our, but again one and nine. I wouldn't want our effort to make the the decision.

B

With the school itself, the building itself and that parcel contingent upon what we can do behind.

B

That that seems like you know, I would love to have already started on the next ruth griffin place and.

B

Years come quick, I am I'm reminded by that with my six-year-old. You know, she's going to be in 2025.

B

She'll, be she'll, be an eight-year-old, you know if it's 20 26 9 year old, you know pretty soon.

B

We're talking about or moving out of our house- and you know I very much want her to have that.

B

Opportunity and to be able to stay in portsmouth, yeah, counselor cook and then council or councilman.

S

Thank you, your honor, and thank you so much for your presentation today. I really appreciate it.

S

um One of the things that you talked about was this being kind of a mixed-use development and.

S

I wanted- and you mentioned some things that that might work, especially when we're talking about.

S

Services for some of the individuals that need housing in the the city. um What do you envision.

S

Around that, have you had any thoughts around um things other than housing that that you would.

S

Also co-locate here, uh yeah we've met with other non-profits, I mean there's other other non-profits.

O

That have been looking for land um in the city for a long time to do a variety of things. So.

O

um We actually, I was, I had been thinking about, you know getting starting on housing and then.

O

um If there were alternative uses, that is a phase two and when we were meeting with.

O

Kathy from haven and uh ann from gather, they both said we don't want to be a phase two. We.

O

Want to be a phase one we're ready to go and do uh do a project like this. um You know in.

O

Both of those organizations I spoke with seacoast community school, we have a satellite location.

O

For seacoast community school at goss and meadows, which has been really successful uh again, there's.

O

Staff shortages, so we're not growing child care centers, but there's plenty of demand for that. It.

O

Would make a you know, part of the building or all the building could make a good use of that. um But.

O

Yeah there's, I think, there's a variety of things if we're thoughtful, that about food, about services.

O

About kids about all kinds of things that we could do, there's such strong needs everywhere. Thank you.

B

Okay, um council, thank you guys so much for the presentation. I know that craig and I have been.

A

Talking for a long time about this property and about other things going on last night, the.

A

Rocking and planning commission actually came out with their need study for our area, and I thought.

A

It was kind of bad news because we've heard the 20 000 units on the statewide. Well, it's over 14.

A

000 for the rockingham alone, so that's exactly: okay, rockingham, the rockingham planning commission.

A

Communities is uh yeah, it's almost 14 500 units, so we're we're really short in this area. So I.

A

Say housing now, um but I do think we need to be thoughtful and make sure- and I appreciate.

A

The questions about the sound barriers- I do think that yeah we have to be thoughtful of how we do.

A

That, because those are lots of money and and you don't want to put something put people there and.

A

Then just have them be upset because it's so loud, but there are techniques, also cost more money. But.

A

Techniques to the construction that can be done in order to do that, I love the idea of the village.

A

And the different services and looking at maybe we take more time with the building itself and have.

A

More options out there to talk about the building itself, but I think we really need to think long.

A

And hard about the land and really getting another roof and griffin place started as soon as possible.

A

Even if it has to be in two phases, I'd like to see you know, could you do 60 units per building.

A

You know I get, there's the all the tax credits and all of those, so my personal preference is to move.

A

Forward with at least some of this as quickly as we can and then maybe take some time on some of.

A

The other pieces and really be thoughtful about what that building conversion could be because.

A

Maybe it would be best just to get rid of the building, but having chaired the demolition review.

A

Committee, for quite some time whenever a building is going to get torn down, people in the city get.

A

Very huffy about it, so I think that we would you know I have to look at. You know repurposing. It.

A

Look at the cost analysis for that and then also look at the cost analysis for tearing it down.

A

And building a new, so I think we really need to take a look at both of those and see what works.

A

Best for the city as a whole. Sorry, it was less questions and more comments. Thanks, counselor.

B

Any other we do have the audience here, so I want to get to the public una. We can again have some.

B

Questions uh at the end of that, but we'll open it up to public comment, um we'll go through.

B

Folks, here uh that are in person and then we'll go through zoom. If there is any mr name and.

B

Oh actually we'll go with uh nancy uh uh claver. First, um uh the chair of the uh the school board.

D

Go ahead: nancy, okay, um I'm nancy, noveline clayberg! I live at 405, fw hodford drive in portsmouth and I.

T

Have the honor and pleasure of being the chair of the portsmouth school board? And I just want you to.

T

Take a moment to thank the city council for once again collaborating with our school department.

T

um I met, I talked to you all just before christmas, when we had the shooter hoax at our high school.

T

And the collaboration and the cooperation with our police department was magnificent, absolutely.

T

Magnificent- and I know that, as I mentioned, then other communities don't have that kind of.

T

Partnership with their various city departments- so I just want to reach out to the city council.

T

And once again say thank you for helping the school department. As you know, our alternative.

T

High school has been at the sherman school for many years now before that it was a wonderful.

T

Neighborhood elementary school when portsmouth had 11 elementary schools at that time and then we I.

T

Never heard it down to three elementary schools, which is what we have today, but the lister academy.

T

Has been a fabulous fabulous program for students that are not successful in the high school and.

T

A great example is: a few months ago I had my chimneys cleaned and uh a couple of young men came.

T

Into my house and one of them said, I graduated from a lister academy and he said I wouldn't.

T

Be here if it wasn't for that program, he said I was not successful at the high school I was able.

T

To make the success of myself at the alternative high school- and he said, I've had this great job.

T

That I love so my heart just went boom when he said that it was just such a wonderful thing to.

T

Hear so we're very excited about moving to um the community campus again the city. You know we sat.

T

Down with the city, the city came up with this idea, so our students will be in a a we're, not a brand.

T

New but a newly renovated space in a beautiful building and with grounds that we can utilize.

T

We have a maple syrup, little business, going on at the academy we have outdoor gardens and all.

T

That kind of thing so we'll be able to do that at the community campus, and I also want to thank the.

T

City council, for putting some funding in there in the cip so that the renovations can take place so.

T

That vote comes up when you vote on the cip and um we're very thankful that the city is willing.

T

To work with us in um in funding this renovation, so once again my experience being involved in the.

T

City is one of collaboration cooperation. What can we do to help each other out? It's just.

T

Been a wonderful wonderful experience and to think that we're acquiring affordable housing.

T

For many of our residents that can't afford to live in our city anymore, so it's just a.

T

um A great project- and I just want to say thank you to everyone involved assistant- thank you.

B

Nancy and- and it is a pleasure to collaborate uh with the uh the school board- we wouldn't uh be.

B

Having this conversation, if you didn't have your vote um to make this a possibility um and we're.

B

We're looking forward to making the improvements uh to the robert lister academy to make sure that.

B

Those kids have what they need to be continued to be successful and that's a that's. A real shining.

B

uh Spot of of what we've done here in the city, so thank you for all your work that you've uh you've.

B

Led uh on that and appreciate the collaboration, as always with our school board. Thank you.

B

Okay, sorry, I took that zoomer out of uh order just come up to the mic. I see eric raising his hand.

B

All right, if you want to, uh if you want to go sit behind over there, you can get next.

B

um But we'll we'll be here uh to listen. uh Thank you, mr mayor nc, council members. My name is eric.

U

Anderson 38 georges terrace in portsmouth new hampshire, um thank you for the presentation. I.

U

Came into this meeting tonight with a wide open mind about what the possibilities would be. Could.

U

Be might be, and I and I appreciated mr waltzer's um presentation, um I've taken notes and, and I.

U

I've been a resident of hearing, we've been there for over 40 years. My wife has been there her whole.

U

Life, my wife's family's been there for their whole life, which is better part of 60 years.

U

So the neighborhood that is presently there is an important component of this discussion. If I.

U

Was to describe pain away me and her holly lane that whole area of the city, I put my hand up and.

U

Here's the city and here's this component, here's this neighborhood, that it is a very unique in in.

U

In in cooperative neighborhood, so I'm I'm I'm just approaching this subject with the cautions.

U

That I hope you have, as with the oversight of the whole city council and the discussion, I would wish.

U

That at some particular point- and I wish council blaylock- would have brought this forward. But I.

U

Think you've got to take this to the neighborhood. You have to have a more focused discussion in the.

U

Neighborhood about what this project is, what it means and what would be compatible with the.

U

Neighborhood as it presently exists, I would not want to see something as opportunity. You know with.

U

With this much opportunity turn into something that is not um compatible with the neighborhood.

U

Because the possibilities has been described by mr walsher there's a variety of categories that this.

U

Type of housing could could involve from senior housing to low-income housing, to workforce housing.

U

um To other aspects of non-profits that you just described in in the complexity of what.

U

This property could could mean, but how compatible is it with the neighborhood? That's been there.

U

For a long long time, and I think if you would disrupt, if you you, if, if this whole project turns.

U

Into something that's disruptive to that to that community or that neighborhood I I don't think.

U

That you have the full value and the opportunity that you have with this discussion to really bring.

U

It to to full effect, so I just I I I hope you caution naturally again use a you. You, as a city.

U

Council had the complete oversight of this, but I hope you would take this to the neighborhood.

U

To you know the neighborhood is not, for you know, I'm glad to see that there's people you know that.

U

Hopefully are going to comment on this. This is not the full. This is not a a full representation of.

U

The neighborhood that's there and I hope that you could take it into that community with some type.

U

Of notice and and and focus discussion on what is aggressively to be developed here, because I.

U

Think you've you've you've stated that you want to take the most aggressive path to some conclusion.

U

But do it with you know um um full sight and full knowledge and full respect of who the neighborhood.

U

And the community is then right now and um you know, that'll, be it and I'll monitor this as it.

U

Goes along, as I hope, the rest of the neighborhood does and, and I and I hope, with with some effort.

U

From the city that they'll solicit that that type of discussion from the full neighborhood.

U

To the best of the possibilities, you can't send a bus to everybody's house and pick them up to take.

U

Him to a meeting, but those that have an interest in it, I think, will show up, because I think this.

U

Discussion is, and this preliminary stages and with the aggression with the aggressive.

U

Path that you're going to take, I I hope you'll explore every possibility for full dialogue on.

U

This thank you. Thank you eric uh it point out that uh council blaylock suggested that we had.

B

This meeting at the actual sherburne school, but the uh the ability to live stream this as.

B

Well prevented us from uh from doing it there. I think that a once this presentation is out folks.

B

Can digest certainly reach out to us? I think it would make sense to have a a neighborhood meeting.

B

On this again, the timeline is because we're in a affordability, crisis, affordability, crisis in.

B

Portsmouth, it's what I'd say. Most people have have stated as the number one goal is. They have.

B

To move out senior housing things of that nature, but having a conversation in the still functional.

B

Not condemned building with a giant gym would be something that I think that would be a priority.

B

For us before, we moved forward officially with any recommendation to the planning board.

E

Listen this one good evening: everybody um I'm kathy beebe, I'm actually here wearing two hats.

E

I am the executive director of haven, the domestic violence and sexual assaults agency, but I'm also a.

E

Resident of portsmouth- and I think that that's really important as we have this conversation.

E

um First, I want to say how excited as a resident of portsmouth and as the director of haven, I am at.

E

The concept of moving forward with additional housing that is much needed for the city of.

E

Portsmouth, I think that it's incredibly important and we fully support that happening. What I'm here.

E

Speaking to during the public comment session is the opportunity that also exists for the.

E

Additional part of the property that's now owned by the city, which includes what we've been talking.

E

About what happens with the building part where the sherman school now sits, and what is some of.

E

The opportunity that exists there, many of you know, but I will just say briefly, that haven.

E

Is the largest domestic and violence, domestic violence and sexual assault, support and prevention.

E

Agency here in new hampshire we've been located in portsmouth. We began in portsmouth as two small.

E

Agencies and we've been providing services that are critical to portsmouth for over 45 years.

E

As the largest provider of 13 agencies, that are a network of the state coalition.

E

Against domestic and sexual violence, we are seen as a leader in the state and known for.

E

Implementing best practices and innovative ways to respond to the evolving and increasing needs.

E

Of survivors of domestic and sexual violence, we have a vision to create a community that.

E

Has empowered, educated and equipped to break the cycle of violence? We do this through providing a.

E

24-Hour support hotline and programs and we are available around the clock every single day to.

E

Support anyone impacted by violence and abuse. Our mission is also dedicated to preventing.

E

This and keeping our communities safe and free from abuse, haven's prevention, education programs.

E

Have been in the schools for over 30 years, we've been in every single elementary school here in.

E

Portsmouth middle school and high school, seeing thousands of kids with our important messages.

E

Of personal body safety, healthy relationships and how to get help, if you're being victimized.

E

We know that domestic violence is the leading cause of homelessness, which is why we are on the.

E

Forefront of trying to address this housing crisis that we have here in portsmouth and beyond haven,.

E

Is very committed to growing both our transitional shelter and our housing programs that are critical.

E

To helping individuals to secure permanent housing for years haven has operated a very small shelter.

E

Here in portsmouth that has not met the needs of the residents of this community and beyond.

E

To address this, we know that we need to build a bigger shelter. That's transitional.

E

That allows people to be ready and able to move into permanent housing.

E

When we were looking at best practice, we traveled around the con, the country we went out west. We.

E

Looked at opportunities of what's existed, what's innovative, what makes sense for here in portsmouth.

E

And we came up with what does make sense, but we need to find the location to do that and we've.

E

Been looking for several years to be able to find that location, we haven't been able to find.

E

It, but we know that it's the right thing to do so right thing right now. What we're doing is leasing.

E

A six unit apartment building in a different county because we could find that location in.

E

Order to start the process of finding dignified transitional opportunities for people that need a.

E

Place to go as they heal from abuse and find their way to finding their way to permanent housing.

E

This model is innovative, but it's also successful and it would be the first of its kind here in.

E

New hampshire- and it really should happen here in portsmouth- it provides a dignified way for.

E

People to have the respite from their abuse to access services to be co-located with an office.

E

That provides programming and assistance and allows them to have the assistance of the while.

E

Accessing support in order to be successful candidates to find safe and permanent housing.

E

We can we collaborate with many communities and many agencies in the area and one in particular.

E

Is gather and gather the food pantry we've had successful collaborations during covid helping to.

E

Feed some of our folks that are in both shelter and housing. We have a great synergy in terms of.

E

Opportunity for us to provide an opportunity for co-located space and programming and shared space.

E

And services that would really revitalize and help those that we're trying to assist.

E

The sherman school is an opportunity for a win-win-win here. It's a win-win-win for haven.

E

It's a win-win-win for gather it's a win-win-win for portsmouth housing authority and for creating.

E

A thriving neighborhood and community that would really meet the needs of people that need housing.

E

And need additional support or assistance, as well as the greater community of portsmouth at large.

E

It's also a chance for you to demonstrate your commitment to keeping important non-profit.

E

Services right here in portsmouth, both gather and even had been around for a really long time, and we.

E

Really do need to stay here in portsmouth and make this something that's available and accessible to.

E

Those in need it's also a great opportunity, because our agencies are in a position to be.

E

Able to raise the funds needed to revitalize and create the community and the building and.

E

The services that are needed for this and it's something where we just were awarded two million.

E

Dollars in congressionally directed spending to start this process and something that we know we.

E

Can raise the additional funds needed to create what's needed, to have a safe and opportunity for.

E

Those leaving abusive relationships to have the opportunity to find housing and not be homeless.

E

I'll take off my haven hat and just say that again as a portsmouth resident, this really is.

E

A win-win-win, I hope you will consider it. I hope, you'll, think about it. It's an opportunity for you.

E

To show that portsmouth is first in creating a thriving neighborhood, an equitable neighborhood.

E

And something that is much needed here right here in portsmouth. Thank you. Thank you very much, kathy.

B

Any other speakers.

V

Hey there, I'm devin quinn, I'm a resident reports where I live on gate street.

V

um And um big supporter of increasing housing to live in portsmouth is to know that we need.

V

More housing and very supportive of this um I'm also a volunteer with haven and so.

V

I wanted to echo some of the things that I see as a volunteer. I volunteer on the haven hotline.

V

um And so this is a an opportunity that kathy mentioned. That seems like a real win-win when.

V

I volunteer on the hotline. The staff goes home at five and then I take a hotline from shift.

V

From 5 pm to 7 a.m, and you know I talk to people, sometimes I don't get any calls. Sometimes I get.

V

Six calls in the other night, and sometimes I talk to people from all over the catchment area. Talk.

V

To people in portsmouth people have been here for a couple of years or for their entire lives.

V

um All backgrounds all ages space, um they talked to me about uh what's going on, sometimes it's an.

V

Emergency I'm talking to them with a police officer or um at the hospital.

V

Sometimes they're talking about something that happened a really long time ago and sometimes.

V

um They're planning uh their next move and they're. Building that confidence and bravery to move on.

V

And so always that's a part that is housing, um I would say, 80 90 of conversations I have is about.

V

Housing, so when I hear more housing, I think that's another chance for people. I talk to to have an.

V

Opportunity to move on, and um I think that, having a co-located opportunity with housing and with.

V

Haven would really serve a lot of needs of people who are living in this future. Housing complex.

V

Maybe they are housing development, maybe they will come and seek out one of the services or our yoga.

V

Classes or support groups and those people who are leaving abusive relationships, it doesn't usually.

V

Line up with um an apartment, opening that day that they're ready to leave and so having that.

V

A haven model there could really facilitate that, because I just feel to me: housing is absolutely.

V

um Domestic violence, people who are struggling through domestic violence, housing is a big.

V

Need and they're also part of our workforce. You know workforce isn't just people who go to work.

V

They're people who also have dynamic lives and domestic violence is sometimes part of that too. So.

V

um You know we have this big opportunity to find a place and to do this and I and I hope that it.

V

Is considered in this spot and if not somewhere else in the city, because as a portsmouth resident.

V

I really want to see haven stay in in portsmouth and keep serving our community stephen thanks.

W

My name is manuel garganta. I live at 471 colonial drive, panaway I've lived there for 55 years, so.

W

I'm still new, I appreciate the presentation that craig and tom gave it's a very. The timeline is.

W

Rather, quick and I understand trying to go for the government to get money uh which is going to be.

W

Difficult with, what's going on in washington now they could be cutting as we speak with the budget.

W

And stuff, uh I want to be careful what we bring in to sherman. I have an affection for sure and I.

W

All my three boys went through there. My wife was went through there. Her sister went through there.

W

And her brother went through there, so you can see it was built in 1940 1940. So it's an old building.

W

So I don't know what you have planned. I had a hard time uh looking at the schematic of what you had.

W

Planned for the property I saw and the elevations and stuff I don't know how far you are, but.

W

um Mr councilman blaylock lives across the street and I'm worried about what's going.

W

To come in there as far as traffic, uh we do need housing in portsmouth. I I totally agree.

W

What type of housing do we need to have these people stay so they're not moving.

W

Out of town far away, we have towns around us. Does anybody from the other towns want to do.

W

This type of building, with your help, we have newington, which probably never see that now.

W

We have stroud, we have a lot of other communities. Dove is the only one I.

W

Think that's starting to do something with that now, so I think we should take our time.

W

I don't know how fast you need it, and I appreciate seeing a timeline for somebody that wants to.

W

Develop in portsmouth that timeline was great. You know irregardless of what what happens.

W

In that timeline, I don't know how long it's going to take to get this money that we need.

W

But please, let's be careful what we put in there. We do need the housing for these people to work.

W

uh You know if I worked in ports. If I worked in portsmouth and I had to go to.

W

Dover to live, you know, that's not easy. You know we should be able to have the.

W

Affordable housing, some type of workforce, housing or whatever you want to call it.

W

But these people have to stay in ports with. Thank you very much thanks, manny.

M

Esther kennedy 41 pickering ave and I just really have a couple questions.

M

um I actually did work at that building at one point as an educator and.

M

I'm perceiving that what we're talking about, if we're going to save the building.

M

But we're building down in the lower area, and if that is true, especially when you're talking.

M

About four stories, if that is true, then I guess my question is knowing what we know.

M

And looking at our research about the sewage treatment plant and the um dumping of items.

M

My question is: is when is the environmental study going to take place in this process? I, given the I.

M

Know teaching there the highway was always quite interesting to deal with, and so with all that I.

M

Know we were worried about that back in 1992 when I was working there, so I guess my question is.

M

Where, if we're going to rush it, when are all these studies taking place? Because I know they take time.

M

And I didn't see that in the plan- and I would want to know that I heard tonight that there's.

M

Some parking studies- I remember even coming out of there with a small number of kids, it could.

M

Be kind of interesting at the right time to get out there with people trying to get to pan away.

M

So I think those things need to really be looked at in order for the neighborhood to accept the.

M

Proposal so those would be the two big things that I would question right up front. I like the.

M

Idea of saving the billing person because it's sentimental. But I also think um that.

M

The land around it might be in question for environmental purposes and lastly, as a council, we.

M

Know our sewage treatment plans are still having difficulties. Where does all the infrastructure fit.

M

For adding projects like this, adding hotels, adding living, how are we going to take care.

M

Of that and that's a big huge question, I think- needs to be inclusive of any new project that we.

M

Build thank you. Thank you, esther. If I'm mayor the phase, one environmental studies already complete.

X

Hi paige trace27 hancock street- um I don't live in panaway manor. I've been there several times.

X

And it's always like everyone else for running for city council or going out to see people.

X

um There were a whole group of us at one point for sound barriers.

X

um I guess my concern: we need housing and, mr walsh, your proposal was really well done. Thank you.

X

um But we have a neighborhood of 120 households out there.

X

And they are a neighborhood, that's what you're hearing these are well established. Families and.

X

Gentlemen, just like councilor blaylock, they live in that neighborhood. How surprising that.

B

Yes, that's what I just said: you know let them be a neighborhood. So all I'm saying to you tonight.

X

Is if you're gonna double the size or come close to doubling the size of the number of households.

X

Then maybe we ought to look equally as important in some fast swift manner about sewage. Can it go.

X

Out to peace, instead of all the way to pure silent, you know we're pretty close there.

X

um Is there a back door to sending the sewage? That way? Is that something that's possible.

X

um Most important is keeping pan away manner, the neighborhood that it is so can you find.

X

Another egress to this development you've got one road in and out of pan away manor for all these.

X

People every day they never say anything, you know they're still waiting for the damn sound barriers.

X

And it seems that we need to pay as much attention to the people living there. It's the people who.

X

Need to live there and that's all I'm gonna say, and I think it's wonderful that you're all trying.

X

To address it, um and I think that you're having questions about it, instead of just pushing it.

X

Through because there are plenty of opportunities, but these gentlemen out here are willing to give.

X

You a shot and they're giving you less hassle than some of us did at one point with court street.

X

And we all know we need housing, so let's try and keep it in neighborhood.

X

And neighborhood and let them let them live their neighborhood too. Thank you.

X

K

Yes and no good evening, my name is lori waltz. I live at 1001, islington street. um I come with so.

Y

Many different hats on I'm thrilled to see this opportunity coming forward craig. Thank you so.

Y

Much for the work you did on that presentation. Being a member of the coveted relief task force.

Y

Really long task force name, never get it right. um We've been talking about the need.

Y

For more housing and what that's going to mean to portsmouth. So many issues that are with existing.

Y

Within the community right now come back to not having enough housing, it impacts our workforce.

Y

um It impacts the community, it impacts people being able to stay in this community.

Y

um I don't think it has to be either pan away manner or affordable housing. It can be a both and.

Y

Communities are doing this across the state across the country. There is some.

Y

Really really good literature, the workforce, housing coalition's website that talks about.

Y

um Busting myths about what you think workforce housing is and what you think it's going to.

Y

Bring to the community, there are two ways to get into that space. You can come from.

Y

um Root one by the hospital and go past past the fish stick plant.

Y

Or you can come in from 33., I think it's an ideal piece of property that does not exist.

Y

In portsmouth and I would hate to see this all go to waste, but I have a couple of questions.

Y

um I've been a volunteer, did crisis line work like devin explained. I served on the.

Y

Board of haven, I worked at haven. I served with counselor moreau as the board chair.

Y

Of haven, so I have a real affinity for that organization and, like kathy said, I think this.

Y

Is a real win-win-win opportunity to bring in other non-profits that provide services.

Y

Their clients also need housing and I'm sure that there are people with the bubbles over.

Y

Their head saying: oh my gosh, we can't have domestic violence, clients in our neighborhood.

Y

I would invite you to make a phone call set up an appointment with anyone that works at haven.

Y

And they can confidently tell you that what you're thinking of that lifetime movie or something that.

Y

You recently saw um on netflix that painted a really terrible scary picture is not reality.

Y

um And I'd be happy to sit down with you and explain to you what that actually looks like.

Y

um Craig, you mentioned the opportunity to get tax credits and that that's a need. An.

Y

Urgent need would, if you were to include in phase one.

Y

Other services, such as haven or gather or a number of other non-profit services, would the seeking.

Y

The tax credits prohibit you collaborating with other organizations in that phase. One.

Y

um You're not in yes, it would or you're. Oh you hurt me. Okay, could you ask it again? Yes,.

B

um So lori, oh, I know it's not a question answer. Can we get we'll we'll note that we'll try to.

B

Come back to that, okay, but let's I don't want to okay, create a dialogue here got it. I mean I do.

B

Want to create a dialogue, but I know it's not the right form. It's not the right form. That's right!.

Z

If everybody comes up, it starts asking questions. I know, I know we can't make any exceptions. It's all.

Y

Good um so I'll make the assumption that procuring the tax credits applying for them and getting them.

Y

And also collaborating with other non-profits in phase one. Is it's smooth sailing that that.

Y

Wouldn't be an issue, um the funding that might be needed to reach the the goal or meet the vision.

Y

That you and others have for um this parcel and the existing building, whether it stays or doesn't.

Y

um Those organizations I know haven's been aggressively developing campaign funds and they've.

Y

Got funding so I think that it's worth mentioning at this point that funding wouldn't necessarily.

Y

Be a concern: um clearly, it's a gonna be a phased project and how that quickly, that happens, is not.

Y

For me to chime in on, but I just really am supportive of this opportunity- I think it would be.

Y

um A really amazing to see something like this happen in portsmouth, and I.

Y

Don't think there's anything like it across the state so.

Y

I vote uh a solid yes with my little new portsmouth resident hat. Thank you. Lori.

AA

Good evening rick paxtad 1395 islington street first I want to thank craig and the portland.

AA

Housing authority for the presentation, I'm sure, probably as people watch this and saw.

AA

The diagrams and craig, when you said the numbers of an 80 to 100 being put into this.

AA

Neighborhood, it is the whole neighborhood, I'm sure people are going to be a little.

AA

Shell-Shocked, I would highly recommend what some of the residents of hannaway manor had.

AA

Actually said, including the entire neighborhood on this, so that we wouldn't have some of the.

AA

Things that happened on court street as far as fitting in not fitting in that kind of a.

AA

Thing and what it was going to do to that section of the neighborhood. I would also.

AA

Like to thank craig for finally debunking, it's the first time that I've heard in a very long.

AA

Time that adding housing units is going to lower the cost of what rent is it's the first time that.

AA

I've actually heard somebody, you know craig and I don't agree on everything, but that is.

AA

One thing I I really appreciate, because that is a fallacy that has been preached for many many.

AA

Years and we've created many housing projects in the city, not affordable, obviously market rate, but.

AA

It doesn't it escalates it and makes it more. I mean even our existing, which I have said for the.

AA

Better part of 10 years to really go and start affordability. We need to protect the housing.

AA

That we have we've got, places that are being torn down, multi-families have been changed and modified.

AA

We're very fortunate to have a couple of small little housing areas in portsmouth that help with.

AA

Some of the lower income- I guess one of my biggest things with this- would be simple.

AA

If the housing is going to be created and I'm sure it probably will, I would like portland housing.

AA

Authority to do its number one main challenge, and that is to alleviate some of the names 600 plus.

AA

That are on your waiting list of the housing that you currently have last I had heard it.

AA

Was somewhere around 600 650? It may have grown, because that was at least probably a year from.

AA

Now I would like to see that I mean it's great. What was done on court street and you created.

AA

A new type of a housing, but not one person on that list when I was on the council of 600 names, no one.

AA

Went into that, and we really need to do a good job with that to be able to go and house those.

AA

People, I think, that's what the main directive of what portsmouth housing authority was all about.

AA

You're broadening it you're changing with the times, but we need to. We need to be able to go and.

AA

Create that type of housing um you know, we've done these type of projects. Before I watched.

AA

Lafayette school and lafayette school had talked whether it was going to be renovated or not. I know.

AA

Craig, it was before your time, um but still at the same time, there was talk of doing this very thing.

AA

um And it was going to alter and change the neighborhood, which is exactly what.

AA

We're talking about now, I don't want to repeat history with that, so including.

AA

The neighborhood on that it was done in such a way that it was was finally renovated and done.

AA

In keeping- and I think there are people in that neighborhood that are going to want to see that.

AA

For nostalgic point of view, or whatever else uh I mean, what haven is actually talking about.

AA

um Being a building contractor for over 30 years renovating, I know that scares people sometimes.

AA

But you're not going to build a brick building like that. Even today um it can be done. Our middle.

AA

School was renovated. um You know our high school was renovated to a certain extent, so renovation is.

AA

Some people say scary, but a lot of contractors don't want to deal with existing because then.

AA

They have to alter things. Newer is easier start from the ground and work your way up. It's easier.

AA

um So I just want to go and keep in that. One of the big things in the mayor had gone and.

AA

Said it is that softball field, I I can tell you uh literally, that is only. We only have two youth when.

AA

I say youth you're talking about not school. This one is this is one of two in portsmouth and the.

AA

Other one is out the pda that the girls use. That's it that's all there is so if we're going to do.

AA

Anything I certainly hope that that has taken into consideration um to be able to go and replace that.

AA

We, the the youth programs, do not use the large adult one that we have off of woodbury avenue.

AA

It's a completely different program and there are a lot of girls. Those programs are getting.

AA

Bigger and bigger, and we really need to look after that- um it coincides um guess with anything else,.

AA

I look forward to what you bring next and I look forward to you guys, hopefully meeting with.

AA

The neighborhoods and some of the other people there so we can move forward. Thank you very much.

B

Thank you, rick any other.

AB

Hey anderson bonus 460 richard dab. um It's really clear that when you talk about this.

AB

Project, obviously there is an interest to maximize the satisfaction of the demand for affordable or.

AB

Workforce housing and that's cut and dry, very blatant, which is important, but at the same time,.

AB

You also hear the concerns about the existing neighborhood, which has existed in large part.

AB

Because it's an undisrupted and it's existed over there in a really nice way. It's also all.

AB

Homogeneous housing inventory, which just means it's all the same type of single-family housing,.

AB

So I think what you get when you combine the single family houses with the existing district.

AB

Factory and housing or office park you get such a contrast, and then you have this middle parcel.

AB

That has so much ability, but what I think you're getting from the pennaway manor folks and the.

AB

Rest of the portsmouth residents is that they don't want to create more juxtaposition to the.

AB

Neighborhood, so the way that I see that being done or achieved is maybe not so much maximizing the.

AB

Number of units, but getting enough units to make it economically feasible, while still maintaining.

AB

A certain level of amenity and that amenity could be a public wreck field. It could be walking trails.

AB

It could be a park or a playground, or it could be that same brick. Building at the front which.

AB

Acts as a nice transition building to the back of the property which interrupts. However, many.

AB

Units you end up doing and I think maintaining that is one of the highest priorities so that.

AB

It's not such a contrast. You know in big cities it's generally called gentrification, but here in.

AB

Portsmouth it's, it would be such a stark contrast and in downtown you can kind of blend in buildings.

AB

When it's outside of downtown, you have less things to hide it within. So when you're creating a lot of.

AB

Units it can get overwhelming. Try to mitigate that overwhelming aspect in a single-family.

AB

Neighborhood, lastly, on the city's behalf, I think one of the most important questions to.

AB

Ask yourself is on top of cars coming in out of this property? How else are these people going to.

AB

Move about the area or the city, and even though there are sidewalks and walking trails and all.

AB

That great stuff, um there should be people movers to and from this property so that these affordable.

AB

Housing folks and this demographic can get to where they need to go downtown, where there was.

AB

No parking spaces necessarily allotted or very few, the answer was they can walk. Well. How do we.

AB

Connect this demographic from outside of downtown to where they need to be, and so, if that's the.

AB

Question how many people, movers or what type of resource do you have that can satisfy up to 200.

AB

250 new residents and where they need to get to on a daily basis- and I think that applies also for.

AB

The non-profits, because their demographic needs to be able to identify where they need to go, how.

AB

They need to get there, and certainly in times of distress, if need be, how do we get there and and.

AB

What is our point of reference or identifying a location and that brick building could act as such.

J

Thank you very much. I will just state uh there is a bus stop right. There walking.

J

Distance like less than a quarter mile and you can even walk to cj too.

Q

Thank you. um We heard rightfully so some, oh sorry.

Q

We've got you off there. Yeah.

Z

um Good evening I am karen pryor, I'm the development director for haven and I just.

Z

Wanted to add one piece: putting my fundraising hat on is that I'm relatively new to haven.

Z

um But prior to everything, hitting with covet haven invested heavily in doing a deep business.

Z

Plan and feasibility study, where dozens of community members were were interviewed about.

Z

The feasibility of a project such as this that kathy explained has co-located facility with our.

Z

Housing and our um business offices- I think the important thing too, that kathy mentioned.

Z

Was that we've been recently just awarded two million dollars from community congressionally.

Z

Designated funding- and that has a short timeline. We have two years to claim that money and other.

Z

Than that it will evaporate, so those funds are either for the acquisition for the land and or.

Z

For the construction of whatever we're doing- and I would just ask that you would keep that.

Z

In mind that we're in a pretty short, we have two years and we have been looking for years.

Z

For property here in portsmouth for haven to stay, so thank you very much. Thank you very much.

D

B

uh Not tonight we're gonna have plenty of opportunities on that um we'll go to.

B

Ann hayes go ahead. Anne.

AC

Hi everyone, um my name is anne hayes and I'm the executive director at gather. I know gather's been.

AC

Mentioned a bit tonight, um but for those of you who don't know our vision and mission is to end.

AC

Hunger in this community, through are programs like our pantry market, our mobile farmers markets.

AC

Our meals for kids programs, all of which address, try and address food insecurity and we're really.

AC

Excited about the opportunity to have more affordable housing, housing and security and.

AC

Food insecurity often co-exist, and this project potentially offers a way to address both of those.

AC

Gather has been in portsmouth for over 200 years since 1816, and we really want to stay here. But.

AC

We've outgrown our space, or, I should probably say space is, as we've been, adding spaces to try and.

AC

Accommodate our growing program so we're currently working out of four separate spaces, which is super.

AC

Inefficient and challenging for the organization and like haven for the past few years, we've been.

AC

Looking for a space in portsmouth to locate we're looking for about 10 to 15 000 square feet, so we.

AC

Can bring everything under one roof? We're looking like kathy mentioned that they've been looking.

AC

At other innovative models, we've been looking at those as well the food side and would love.

AC

To build a community food center, which is based on a really innovative and effective model from.

AC

Up in canada, but we cannot find the space we've looked as we mentioned for years, we've probably.

AC

Looked at 10 different spaces and nothing has worked out. There are very few viable options so.

AC

It's becoming more and more urgent for us as well to find that new space and- and I would say that.

AC

The existing sherburn school building offers, you know, as other people have mentioned, a potential.

AC

Win-Win for gather for haven for the portsmouth housing authority, because we could feasibly locate.

AC

This community food center in the space alongside haven's offices, and we could share that community.

AC

Space and programming spaces, making it more cost effective for both of us and the proximity to.

AC

The low income slash, affordable housing is a real benefit to the residents, because the programming.

AC

That they may need would be close by and for gathering haven, as well as other organizations.

AC

um Serving that same community, because we would plan to offer some multi-use spaces to bring in.

AC

Other organizations to provide services- you know so that people could get housing and.

AC

Workforce development support enrollment and snap and medicaid things like that. So when.

AC

The people are present for programming and meals offered by us or by haven. They could.

AC

Get that additional support. I think it's been mentioned. That now is a really good time for.

AC

For gather, I know and for haven to secure funding for this, and, in fact, haven has secured some.

AC

Funding for this, it is a good time for us to be fundraising for this, but we really do want to see.

AC

This happen sooner rather than later we're really, you know we move about uh 1.8 million pounds of.

AC

Food through our tiny little warehouse and and pantry, and so we would love to have additional.

AC

Space to do that, and we think that the school offers offers the opportunity for us to offer.

AC

Some very cool programming offers the opportunity for us to address some needs in the community in.

AC

A much better way alongside other non-profits that can do similar work, so we would love to.

AC

See this happen, the housing is super important, as is, uh as are the other services that we're.

AC

Talking about so, I really appreciate you taking the time to to hear me out and- and I thank craig.

AC

And pha folks for for coming up with this idea, I think it's a really interesting opportunity.

B

Thank you, anne thanks for all the work you do at gather. One more speaker, mayor, jackie kelly, pitts.

D

Hey jackie hi, um sorry to hear you had the flu declan I had covered. Oh geez yeah. I know.

AD

um I want to say that I believe, and I know that housing is important. I have been blessed to be.

AD

Able to live in portsmouth as long as I have, and even though I live in portsmouth housing.

AD

Every day believe it or not, I worry about, am I going to be able to stay here.

AD

However, the one thing there were two things I'd like to bring up.

AD

One is building, the facility is wonderful and I think the sherman would be the would.

AD

Be a good place, however, maintaining it is something else and the other question.

AD

I would bring up just because I've been involved in building for a long long time.

AD

Are we talking close to I hear two million dollars? Are we talking close to a hundred million dollars.

AD

Craig, uh no again we're gonna, no chief, I know right here you want to say no to 100 million.

B

Dollars, that's that's all right! Well, I'm gonna and that we're just building a complex out at.

AD

The county and it's 148 million dollars so in in in the old days that kind of money or that.

AD

Kind of figure would knock me on over, but now it doesn't seem so far away just saying.

AD

But I wish the project would go ahead.

AD

And I wish everybody good luck with it. We'll find a place for a softball field.

B

And as a member of the rec board, that's your that will be part of your job, jackie [laughter],.

B

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts.

B

Okay, so um this is the first of of many uh conversations.

B

I think time is of the essence. I want to move as as fast as possible, just not any faster than that.

B

um I I also heard um it was great to hear from folks in the in the neighborhood tonight we'll.

B

Make it out to you, city hall, will come to you to hear about this more. I think it was important.

B

Tonight, to be able to live stream this so that people could watch on channel 22, but it's our.

B

Goal to make sure that this is something that is a project that everybody's proud of in portsmouth.

B

um You know, but first among uh all of our equal residents of portsmouth is going to be.

B

The residents that are going to be next to this, so I think we're going to get to a place where we're.

B

There tonight wasn't um a proposal, um it was a presentation, and so we got a lot of work to get to.

B

A proposal um and a lot of work that is going to necessitate, but I want to thank the the residents.

B

um That spoke, and I felt all had an awesomely open mind about this. Certainly some concerns about hey.

B

We're talking about putting you know: 40 80, 120 units next door. I gotta imagine that you know.

B

The portsmouth of you know even 10 years ago might be reacting a little differently to that. It's not.

B

Because we're any it's not because our feelings of pride, our neighborhoods change, though I think.

B

It's because our understanding of the crisis that we're in here when it comes to you know.

B

Families that have been here for generations to think about how is my granddaughter going to be.

B

Here, what are we going to do to keep those people here? How are we going to have our kids be the next.

B

Generation, if they're not uh living with us and for folks that want to downsize and get you know.

B

That single family home and give it to their to their kids. How are they going to stay close.

B

To their grandkids, so I think it's it's maybe a result of how acute this issue has become a look.

B

For to all of the discussions that we're going to have on this and to get and doing some, some.

B

Walkabouts, but I think the you know if, as long as we can get the microphones to work above the hvac.

B

System you know, I think that it would be a good next step to have a citizen input session at the.

B

At the sherburne school to hear from these residents, so that people feel as though we're.

B

Not moving too fast and and we'll make that so it's you know like our city-wide neighborhood.

B

Committees, maybe more of a q, a session there, where I think we can get some of the answers that we're.

B

Looking for not maybe this stuffy work session in city hall, but again, uh councilor bagley uh thank.

I

You aaron, I appreciate your comments and and to that vein, and to the concern I expressed earlier.

I

I think the sooner we can do that and the more aggressively we can have these input sessions.

I

um You know, maybe we can match that timeline. If, if we do everything quickly, I know it's.

I

Budget season, but yep we can find a way we uh and we, the intention to have this session.

B

Was after uh the holidays because it felt like if we had it, you know in december 22nd. Nobody.

B

Pays attention to anything we do because they're busy doing christmas shopping nor.

B

Should they, when the holidays are upon us, you shouldn't be thinking about your government.

B

um But uh now that we've had that we should, um as a as an agenda item on the 23rd, to schedule that.

B

um So I look forward to a council bringing forth a date that would work.

B

um Soon, thereafter, to have that conversation- and I think pha will be ready for that conversation.

B

Look like you're already ready, and I think that aligns the timelines of getting doing this. If it.

B

Were to happen this year before the planning board and permanent approvals before august.

B

Council blueland uh thank you, honor, and I really appreciate scheduling that and having.

J

It at sherburne school, so the neighborhood does have an opportunity to come and speak.

J

um I think tonight was a good starting point to get out some information out there, so they can.

J

Have some questions to come? I did try to speak with some of my neighbors before tonight. Just.

J

So they were aware of tonight's meeting, but just want to thank you and I look forward to.

J

That thank you, council, bluff. All right with that look forward to the work to come, and I want to.

B

Thank again uh craig tom and adam as long as well as all the board that was here tonight.

B

um We're truly lucky to have you look forward to the work that we're going to do together thanks. Thank you thanks man. Thank you. Thanks, council.