City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Board of Adjustment, 11 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: 10.11.2022 Board of Adjustment Workshop

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10.11.2022 Board of Adjustment Workshop

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Workshop board of adjustment and conference.

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Thank you, sir. My name is steve buckley, I'm leading services council for angelman and.

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Peter and the rest of the board, a staff here- are many major kind of big presentation on.

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Cbh station I've learned from the cba member and also representatives apologies over the.

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Last 40 years, I've been with nhmas in 2014, and our job is to provide legal assistance.

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To our members, I do that on the phone by email most of the time, but I also do these trainings.

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And it's part of the care is to get direct training to dbas or our planning towards.

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Or other bodies on the subjects within that matters of the hand on a daily basis.

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Hopefully, you don't have to read clearly but to the acceptance of your meetings.

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So if you have a question on agenda, look forward to meeting because we'll contact you and put him.

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It's a very tiny question and that's my next slide, so I part of what's known as the legal.

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Advisory service or a job along with my physical counsel, uh municipal services, accountable john de.

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Pal, we are the legal advisory service, so we're available to answer questions for municipal.

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Officials matters within their portfolio responsibilities uh for these five days, a.

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Week from 8 30 to 4 30.. So. But, however, if you call us, because you had a dispute with the city.

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Council on some ordinance unrelenting this homing- I wouldn't give you advice because it has to be.

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Something related to something or sure um and so got our email address. I should change that.

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Pharmacy, you can read it better. It's legal inquiry is that nhbiscible.org, where you can call us.

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Information here we really try to stay out of local disputes. The zba fighting with the.

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Planning board university council contribute that never happens, um yeah and, and we also find it not.

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Get involved with individual applications a lot of times we're going to think we're to cpa how.

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Should we decide this case and I'll say, okay? Well, let me try to give you some general guidance on.

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How you address the issues, but I really can't tell you how to make this decision. That's probably the.

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Question that we would ask, because you know we have initiation and uh so generally what's the.

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What's a valentine or a president or something like that, the framework, but then we bring to.

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Work that you will make that's really what I try to do as much as possible to get back get that.

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Going in that direction, but many times I may end up saying something like um excuse me, you might.

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Want to consult with state attorneys here and ask you know it's a very confident legal talent here.

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And many times when someone asks a question, and it is the case that.

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You've already sought the advice of your regular municipal attorney. I will say.

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You know we're not here to give second opinion, so we've got the advice from your lawyer.

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Your lawyer is the one that you should stay with and not you know see me, you can get a.

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Different interpretation of the same thing for someone else, so why should I avoid those things.

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How do we well, you know what I'm usually pretty good to snip, that out.

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If someone asks me a question and then right here kind of you know well, we've heard from.

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Somebody else that that's not really how it works. You want to see what you think I'll say.

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Oh so you've already got the independent from the city attorney or from musical council and.

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I was like hey, you know, that's really about our job to give sex opinions. We don't want to.

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Interfere with your relationship with the lawyers will go to court with you don't go to courtrooms.

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Are you, are you willing to make a call on whether something compliance with the law or not.

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Well, I'll give you an example today.

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Part had done in a particular municipality, it seem to be at the building department.

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They were issued performance that medicinality and the question with whether or not that was.

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Consistent with the fact that, before issuing the permit, the applicant should have gotten a.

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Cyclone, so what I will do in that circumstance is generally kind of dial back a little bit and.

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Say what this is the framework? This is a law that governs cyclone review. This is the law.

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That governs issues of building permits. I would encourage your local officials, whoever they may.

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Be whether it's a slight board or the planning board of the cpa, to apply with these bonds and.

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I will intent to give that guidance without saying somebody's right or something wrong.

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um So the presentation today I brought are kind of broken down into two parts.

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I do have a first section where I'm talking about the right to nola athletics optics in.

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Any case the this qualification and case studies, conflicts of interest and then.

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The rest of the presentation is really the role of the cba cda jurisdiction appeals.

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Procedure decisions, variance criteria, especially exception of sweet hearings,.

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We always feel it's important to give a continuing but kind of continuous introduction to municipal.

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Officials- but this really is something that embraces all elements of what municipalities.

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Do and how they is. You know the doing the complied with the fact that the right to know law is part.

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Of our constitution and it's a statute that is deriving and it requires that all elements of the.

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Physical government be accountable and responsive and public has the right of access to proceedings.

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Of municipal bodies, but also governmental records, so that same concept appears both.

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In the new hampshire constitution and section 1191 value, people have a right to access to the actions.

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Discussions of records of public progress to look at the account, so it's a little bit specific.

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Experience that benefits on us as individuals, let's say, speak with each other.

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Suppose I have a question.

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I suppose I wanted to know that submitted.

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In a form of public body.

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That includes not just taking action.

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But discussing anything with university of jurisdictions.

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Any majority of the cpas together um and you're discussing public business. You must conduct that.

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Business in a public meeting now is it possible for one member of the zba to talk to another.

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Member of the cpa by the new case- that's not a corner, which I I wouldn't understand, because I my.

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Experience has been generally under rsa 674 uh 33.. It's another statute on the the members of the cba.

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um You have seven members on your zba right in two years: okay, because in the rest of new hampshire.

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There's five, okay, I and I don't know. Maybe you had a special act that allow you to have seven.

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I'm not going to get into that, but so if you're quarrel is more okay yeah, it is theoretically.

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Possible for two members of the cpa who'd be discussing public business outside the meeting.

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I don't encourage it, I would generally discourage you. I would encourage cba members to only public.

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Business attending application in the meeting room in front of the public, but technically.

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The right to no law when you're we're convened, we need to interact with each other and discuss only.

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Applies but upon the public body is together to do that, so your your minimum, your quorum, is for eign.

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About that you know it's an apartment buildings. What made the case that.

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Department to go for the public because it's going to lower the cost of housing impossible.

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What is the and I don't want to talk about a specific? How is there a way.

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That we can speak with each other is important for the general sense like what do we think is.

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um What is the I mean as far as I'm over there.

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So, in other words, weighing those arguments without a factual basis or considered.

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Nothing that prevents the cpa from having a workshop where a player or some of the complaining.

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Staff or something outside of the city comes in talks to you generally about housing. Housing needs.

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And creation and the effects of the economy is nothing that prevents them from happening now. You.

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Have to exercise some degree of caution, because if you have a pending application, that hasn't.

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Been heard yet or is the middle of being heard, and then you have this separate event where you have a.

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Discussion about housing policy could very easily stray into a situation where your discussion bears.

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Directly on, what's going to take place with regards to that application, and you didn't give.

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Notice an opportunity to be heard to either the opponents or the supporters of that application.

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They're going to say they would deny due process the right to be heard on a material part of the.

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Cba's consideration with the issues and one has to be very careful, but it does not mean outside.

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You know just generally application that you might get that you couldn't have workshops. I mean vbas.

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Had a workshop, if I was you know representing this college of southern new hampshire, uh most of which.

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Are complaining work uh the plain board that I wrote media they have it also designated four.

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Meetings about it and one meeting every month was a workshop at the workshop. Typically, they went to.

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Absolutely radio presentation: for one time an engineer came in to talk to the planning board.

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About retention detention basis, there's a civil engineering difference between into how they work.

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Etc, so I mean it's not without a certainly within the balance of possibilities for a cpa.

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To have a workshop on some particular subject that would help inform you.

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um But I think that if that workshop subject was so closely aligned to what was going to take place.

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With regards to a pending application, you might have an obligation to notify the participants.

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So that they can have noticed them to configure so just some caution has to be understood, but.

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Again, I just bottom line public meeting is when warren buffer public body to me so board members.

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Are discussing public business you've got to have them it's going to have to comply with the right.

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um Along those lines, just to be clear about what a public body is because the statute obligates.

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The student to comply with the right to no law to any problems by now, it's clear to understand.

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On public property, in this instance, is only board of adjustment which legally constituted.

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uh Board whose job it is to ameliorate concerns arising out of the application, something ordinance.

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Particular pieces of land: it's your job, um that is clearly a public body, but it can also include.

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Subcommittees or advisory, so if, for instance, let's assume, uh mr rossi, you were a scientist.

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Along with three other members, excuse me in the subcommittee to conduct some kind of you.

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Know further investigation into housing issues and report back to the flow committee uh of.

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You know the full board of what you discovered. um You would be an advisory, and in that instance, you.

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Would you, as an advisory committee, would also have fun now it's not typical about what a cpa.

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Has advisor more typical to see them on planning boards as pointing towards to have a master plan.

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But that's just useful to understand the the statute applies to the convening of a public body.

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um But convening can also occur in person by email by text uh and.

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Communications outside of the meeting are used. I have assumed by partly should have.

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Been used to concerned about the spirit of the law, it violates the right to know that.

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um Again, you know if you were having a discussions and here's kind of how we always set it up. If you.

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Know mr rossi and ms heldridge had a discussion outside the meeting about a pending application.

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And then ms eldridge then contact ms marcus and said hey. I was just talking to tom about.

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This, what do you think and then miss martinson, then contacts paul, no paul, not doing it. Okay, if.

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All you know, guess what I just had this conversation that phyllis told me about.

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And she talked and pretty soon you have a sequential series of communications which.

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So I think that's where those kind of conversations could lead to that.

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Kind of undermining of the right to build criminals- yeah so I mean uh so. I I think.

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Generally speaking like, for instance, why is he being reading the other day, I'm on.

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The cba in my town, uh we were waiting for a meeting to start. uh No, not everyone was there.

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And you know, actually we had people like covid, so I had to run the meeting with the.

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Vice chair, but one of the members who I was appointing had to say it was an alternate. He.

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Was an alternative regular member people really wanted to talk about some company occupations.

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We'll discuss it. Yes, we open the meeting publicly and have the discussions with.

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Everybody now, theoretically, and just me having a discussion, especially because the meetings, what about that.

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um That's the second proportion of the agenda: two q, a session.

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Go go ahead, get them on the table, and so it also happens occasionally as.

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Someone who is who has interested, who want to talk to talk to us in advance.

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um There's cases on that soon there must be a case at a robot city of dover, where one member.

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Who was really trying to follow that out of a series of extended conversations? You know.

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The supreme court said that member did not cross the line did not create a situation.

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With him ever had to accuse him, but it's just not a good idea. It's something really happened.

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um So I would not encourage having any discussions directly with an african or an opponent. Yes,.

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um I I'd just like to make a point. Excuse me about well what some and many of us.

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Have already been trained by the city attorney was very interested in the right to know blog.

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And his opinion is, if you have forum, you have a meeting whether you.

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Did it the right way or the wrong way? It's it's a meeting and uh it's minutes needs to be kept and.

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Published and so forth, but before the meeting you need to publish the announcement of the meeting.

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Within the given time period and all of that, and if you don't do that, um you're subject to horrible.

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Discipline- and I don't know what uh he was meeting, but the point was that if you have a foreign.

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Business can't be discussed if the meeting has not been announced.

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Communicated to the public and all that.

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My experience with that was informing me a new community of town, which is.

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Contentious end to end um and there's only a board of adjustment, and we ask you to just because.

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There's frankly, in a lot of cases we hear there's money right england, so I can. I can get contentious.

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But he gave us a very simple rule, which is, if you have a farm, whether it's in city hall, in.

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The meeting room or down at the local beer joints you know like sitting around at the.

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Table that you have a farm, you have a meeting and minutes must be kept and published and.

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um There's no way to get well from not having notified in public.

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um So I I don't know where that stands and that that is where I, like. Your.

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Opinion, if, if something happens and people are challenging, the credibility as as a meeting.

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Can they overturn it undo it? How does that work? Okay? Well, I I'm giving you 100 uh that.

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One of the things that is not true is that a chance social encounter constitutes an.

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Automated, so if you have a chance occasionally where the hormone the zba is the president of.

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Public location that doesn't concentrate me, um so you could, as my planning board, used to.

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Do every year we had a christmas party at the house of chairman of the plane was that's not.

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It wasn't a public meeting, we were in kentucky public business, so, according to his city, attorney.

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Who is not favorable? My and the understanding of it is. He is not favorable to audit committees.

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Compressive members of the public, um so he was trying he was trying to discourage what.

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We were doing uh as much as he could and he made sure we understood that what we do can.

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Be challenged and can be undone and can be replaced and we might be held accountable.

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In ways we don't anticipate in life from having attempted to take action on something.

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Well, so let me just again emphasize you know one issue that you raise about the chance.

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Social encounter: that's not a public meeting, it's right in the statute. Chance occasions.

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When you get together as a quality, probably don't constitute the public meeting if you're.

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Not doing public business, um but I think you know your issue is well what happens if we are.

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Together, we didn't give proper notice and we are conducting questions. What is the outcome? Well, the.

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Law says that actually can be taken to undo any public action taken. That's a secure court judge.

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And we now have a new agency in charge of runs, no violation, but it's kind of three main things that.

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The court system would be on muslim, now can do they can undo any addition. So if you took action.

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At a meeting that wasn't prominent notice where the public wasn't given right to attend and he.

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Actually had taken the undone whatever you did was thrown out, but you didn't turn all over them and.

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If someone has to go to court through the course that requirement, then what you do is illegal.

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They can be awarded an attorney students and then, lastly, what it can do sort of two other additional.

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Remedies penalties other than the warning attorneys fees to the agreed. The party who.

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Brought the case of court or to the ombudsman the particular order, the public body or the individual.

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Remedial training and the the court can also award them, but to now can impose so there are.

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Civil penalties of you know ranging being 200 250 to 1500 per violation. So those are the array of.

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Remedies that the court can pose, but again I don't think um it is the case that you know a.

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Chance social encounter, as you probably mean, but if you have a committee, it's a duly constituted.

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Committee of the city, you know you should only conduct business public. We in public business.

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At dominance, the other point um that I want to make on this particular slide. You know there can.

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Be occasions when you have multiple members of one public body serving a different public body.

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I could get complicated, so you have one public body for such as a cba. Let's say a quorum of the.

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Cba, go to a plenty point to uh you know present your point of view on your application. I don't.

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Think you can do it, but it's possible. Then you could have two public meetings there. It might be.

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Necessary to give notice to the public that both public meetings are contained, that the cba will be.

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Conducting public business inside of client group meeting, but I can't I that's unlikely- to occur.

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For a cba, I don't think be common that the thing for you, but in terms of your audit committee, you.

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Know generally, what I think you know I tell you something to say is something you should follow.

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Is the sound of us as much as possible whenever you do a public action or going to take action.

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And run a committee: do it in public meetings with a form of the auto committee president.

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um And I just emphasize that you know when you're going to have a talk like we have to.

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Get public notice it has to be over to the public and yeah and just emphasize the public notice part.

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um You could have different requirements for public members, but the zba has to give public.

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Notice to the investors, five physical state for the meetings and you have to publish notice of.

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The meeting and newspaper general circulation in your community, um but under the right to know law.

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The minimum notice requirement is 24 hours posted to public places, um 24 hours, not including sundays,.

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And holidays and then you know, be open to the meeting open the public part I just want to.

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Emphasize what that means open to the public has another. A number of actions are right to attend.

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The public has a right to record, they can video record, they can audio record um uh and, as long.

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As they don't interrupt, the meeting um they've even seen the public bodies have their meetings.

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Live broadcasted by someone who reporting from the back of the room and live broadcasting onto.

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Youtube, so those are all things remember, the public body can do and members of the public.

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The other thing about um open to the public. It has a lot of other meanings. One of the other meetings.

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It has is there's no secret following at um public meetings, so you can't have a single ballot.

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um You can't vote in a secret and you really don't want to be using your smartphone to send.

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A text to a fellow board member: this is what I think about that app. That is, that is having a.

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Single conversation that should only be taking in place for the public, so I'd like to hear.

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No, you don't have those minutes approved by the cba within five business days, but if so,.

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I came down at the city hall and wanted to see the minutes from the meeting that happened for.

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The ppa five days ago, by business days, they have to be available for my review, but those.

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Are only draft picks and then leave the minutes that you received a strat, maybe.

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I don't know if you post them on your website, but you might close them on it websites, but if you have, if you do, all you have to do is post-approvements.

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A few pieces of information about the right to know I'm going to move on to.

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Conflicts of interest or any questions about the right to know about any further questions.

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Well, um politics of influence, kind of begins with ethics and there's a lot of things on.

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This slide, but I say, among other things, avoiding conflicts, disclosing financial interests, avoiding.

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Criminal behavior, I don't remember anybody but they're all criminal laws in this area, respecting.

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Confidentiality, not abusing authority, treating people fairly and equally honesty, integrity.

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And customer these are all things which some people would associate with veterans.

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um But there is a particular stack that we always have to use: rsa, 673. and there's.

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Really two parts of the statute that america attention part one essentially says no cba.

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Member acting in a date for fasting when you move on whether or not someone is entitled 20.

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Hearings or special exceptions, whether you're going to take action to improve.

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Or disapprove and appeal of the decision by the administrative officer I'm interacting with, was.

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You're hearing from competing signs of an application, supporters and opponents.

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And you weighing the information you seem to make new decision passes simply what juries.

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Objectives do all the time if you have a direct personal opinionary interest. You are as well.

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It is a relative uh if you have an interest financial interest in the application. The.

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Corporations apply for an application of a conflict and a transformation that use.

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Yourself, but there's another part of the statute that I think also bears some attention. You also.

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Have to recuse yourself if you were acting on a similar matter in a jury trial, and so the.

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The statute refers to or if the member would be disqualified for any cause act as a juror upon.

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This trial of the same matter in any action at law and what we have uh is the jurora standard of.

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um The disqualifications rsa 500-a so if you've ever been asked to sit on a jury. These are the.

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Questions the judge will ask you know if you inspector gain or lose. Are you related.

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To either party have you consists or advising their project you directly or indirectly, given.

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Your opinion, or you reach the decision, are you employed or employee? Any party in the case are.

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You prejudice and you employed a counsel appearing in the case before you. You have to answer any of.

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These questions are yes, you might think your ability to participate in that computer, because.

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um The more common ones- I suppose- and this is the one that has the double language board members.

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Have you formed an opinion before you've received? I mean if you come to the cba area and you read.

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The packages for hand and you've decided, you know I am not going to say yes to this, no matter what.

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These people say you may have to think you know, are you being fair um to the party who's applied.

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They'll bring this on or on the supporting, no matter what I don't care, what we've ever.

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Seen- and I just think that's- the kind of thing happened to the boy because I would suggests.

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And already formed an opinion about hearing the others in the hearing, without giving your opinion.

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Well: okay! Yes, I'm asking you to to look inside of yourself correct! Okay, you understand that you.

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Really try to keep an open mind um and I think it's true, um but it also are you're trying to.

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Just paying degree well, a prejudice would be I prejudged that we're trying to make out of the.

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Hearing this, so um that is, I think that would have to be careful with them. Yeah uh is, it is.

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There a standard or constitutes feminist, we'll get to that. Okay, um so I I just want to just.

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Differentiate between two types of decision-making, there's decision making that boards made, which are.

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Called legislative and they'll widely failed in policy decisions, and you are acting the.

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Public, whereas quasi-judicial you're acting to affect specific practitioners, you have to go to.

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The party attemptively evidence that you have to be generally and different. So what would be.

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A legislative act by the cba. Well, I don't know if you're a cba judge, but every year I thought.

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This time of year, rcb is asked to provide to the planning for suggested amendment to the.

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Zoning workers we deal with the zoning workman all the time and you see what we would like.

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To do that and you see, and you see things that should be fixed- I don't know if that's happened.

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To you, but I've you know our zba, we would, you know, send a little note to the planning board.

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These are the things that's your attention. Maybe they should be a move because there are sometimes.

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Things that happen over and over again, you realize wait a minute 70 seconds foreign.

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Jeopardize your ability to make a sound decision on that issue. Clearly, however, when you're acting.

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In a judicial capacity higher standard of deference to attacks, you hear and then.

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Presentations that you receive, so I just have this little kind of um formula, but just to keep in mind.

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You know if you're dealing with um the official we just qualified, participates in a case um and.

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Whether or not they confuse himself, whether it's legislative applause ideation, it's a millennial.

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Decision you know there are cases like this. Let's assume you have a personal opportunity or interest.

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um That you propose to stand into a change, a particular part of its own importance.

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um Now it's not a case, that's kind of good for you, but you really wanted to purchase this.

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Because it's going to help various ways in which would benefit you, but not directly indirectly, so.

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That's a legislative act on your part. Your vote proposed that, let's listen to the rest of your.

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Cba members saying we're not going to propose that amendment. That's going to directly support.

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You uh corp would only invalidate that action. You know the cba did not propose that mentioned.

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um If you know the vote of the conflicted member, you know how to deciding an impact.

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um But that was a judicial decision. You know if a member clearly shouldn't reduce themselves they've.

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Rejected our personal community or interest any way in which they participate in decision making.

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Will invalidate full case, any decision made is invalidated, even if that members vote did not.

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Have a stock outcome determined, so the courts are really um jealously. Regarding that indifference,.

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Standard and will evaluate action by a cpa, get a member just participate, even though that vote did.

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Not um you know cause the outcome to go one way or the other so expected one thing to keep in mind.

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Yes, is there a standard by which they determine the difference.

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Well, um well, let's, let's look at some cases. I do have some cases here.

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um But let me get to the case, but I just want to mention a few things about. If you have conflict.

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Of interest there's a difference between recusal and abstaining, so it would mention when, when you.

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Are looking at a situation where it's possible, you have to get out of a matter of enemy from.

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The board, generally, you want to be refusing yourself. An extension is someone where someone.

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Just decides not to vote. Generally speaking, I don't encourage board members to exchange.

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Because you're appointed or elected to fill the positions vote on matters not to abstain. So if you.

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Don't want to vote, you really should do it for a reason. I have a compliment. I'm going to use myself.

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um And recusing is really the remedy to avoid a conflict of interesting.

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um Other things I want to say about avoiding conflict of interest. You should know that the.

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Zba, all that you support have the ability to ask their fellow members that are advising people so.

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You might have a situation where you're not sure whether that circumstance requires you to accuse.

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Yourself, you would ask your fellow board members: these are the facts. uh This is a long lost. You.

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Know fifth cousin I've ever seen in my whole life was the applicant. I don't really think I have any.

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You know direct personal opportunity or interest, even though I am typically related to that. What do.

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You want to think and- and you felt more members can then vote and give you direction now. What I.

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Would say is yeah it's a very distant relative as the applicant, but it's always safer to accuse and.

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Air on the side of caution, but um that is one way to get direction from difference. I would also say.

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Joe you want to refuse this, I said, not abstain. I would also encourage people to avoid giving.

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Opinions on any matters before the board on social media, I would say: avoid social media like a play.

B

um And if necessary, to slow yourself and generally here on the side of caution um now the first case.

B

That I've got here and we're kind of I don't know if you can move that toolbar yeah yeah.

A

Yeah, that would be great.

A

Okay, um so the first case windows, which is the very interesting case, goes back to 1984. someone.

B

Wasn't on the planning board but knew about a case that was coming up. It was vehemently supporting.

B

The project voices opinion before putting point joins now he's on the plane board had a previously.

B

Expressed an opinion strongly supporting the project and that he votes in favor the boat.

B

Is six to one is out? Well, did not determine the outcome. Spirit court, reverse the planning words of.

B

Speeches supreme court agrees um and said: you know the proper it was, it would have been necessary.

B

To show that he was different in difference being measured by how do we assess the evidence that.

B

The court had so there's no one standard. What is deemed the difference in the winslow case.

B

Every it was demonstrably presented as evidence this member had voiced his opinion, explored the.

B

Hearing but he wasn't a planning board member, he was supporting the project and there was no god.

B

But that's what happened, and so the real issue was better well. His folk didn't have enough supreme.

B

Court said doesn't matter could cause a leadership decision-making process. His new participation was.

B

Enough to disqualify him during ending before you know and invalidated the entire statement.

B

So again I don't know what what constitutes a difference, but there's a couple other cases. I.

B

Want to mention that kind of wouldn't help answer the questions. um Now I've lost control peter oh.

A

A

A

Can you forward.

B

Let's go yeah, okay, I'll just have you throw it as far as sure or you put it down there? That's fine.

B

Hold on still not working, though.

B

No, no yeah, you can just forward so the next one's the robert foley versus trustee versus central.

B

Case and I think it's instructive, because it also affects it on social media and also help. Perhaps.

B

Helps answer the question that mr mcdonald has about what constitutes a difference so.

B

um In in the infield case, um the zba chair, this is a cba case. The the case was pendant uh and.

B

The senior the cba member cbh here was really concerned. You know, you know as a president how.

B

Do we make decisions in the past cases, exactly uh play a role that made any decision and so.

B

There was a hearing and then there was going to be another meeting, but in between that hearing.

B

And the next meeting the the chair of the cba posts, the message on planning and plant lake.

B

Is a electronic message board maintained by the office of planning and development we're going to.

B

Ask that question. That's precedent, binding prior decisions about the cba they're binding on us.

B

Don't going forward making a decision on a similar case now the cpa ended up denying a rehearing case.

B

After the chair's email on a different ground in terms of wider variants would violate the.

B

Spirit of the ordinance or promote overcrowding, this particular instance, so it was the applicant.

B

Trying to get the permission to put a use in that was going to. From the point of view, the cpa cause.

B

Overcrowded but after the case was appealing the supreme court, they happened to learn, wait a minute.

B

The the chair of the cpa had this ex parting, that is, communication material to the case that took.

B

Place outside the area, so it's the theory is that everything that should be heard or can be heard or.

B

Ought to be heard by the zpa should take place in the hearing so that all the members can hear it.

B

And then those were participants could hear what's going on, so they can all weigh how the board came.

B

Up with the decision and the supreme court said well, it didn't look like what the chair of the cpa.

B

Inquired about or received answers from the listserv had any material impact on its.

B

Decision making so the case doesn't mean you can't post messages on plan, but it certainly.

B

Points out, what has to be careful, you know, and so caution is warranted, and so consequently.

B

um Not going next slide.

A

Even you're frozen.

B

Okay, that that the z1 express case is another example of a similar situation, but it was a zba.

B

Like action, they tell you about plenty planning forward in manchester. Had a traditionally used.

B

Permit process the conditional use permit was a gas station in a controversial area near a.

B

Number of homes where all the homeowners are well organized and opposing, um and so they had as in.

B

This case may be a website, a facebook page where all the opponents of this new gas station were.

B

Posting messages and suggesting things should be done to make sure the planning board doesn't.

B

Approve it, but after the public hearing portion of the matter being heard about a planning board. But.

B

Before the board entered signed, the liberations two members of the planning board wonderful, was.

B

An alderman posted a message on the facebook page of the opponent saying we support you. We.

B

Oppose the project and that raised the question: were they truly indifferent of them? So one of the.

B

Members who voiced that opinion on the on the social media site at the next occasion on the.

B

Planning board was going to vote on. It was asked to recuse himself. He formed an opinion before he.

B

Decided this case you haven't kept an open mind. Oh yeah, I'm I'm perfectly fine bro. Anyone had a voted.

B

Out, of course, gets appealed, disappeared important, so we're going to say, wait a minute. You did not.

B

Enter deliberations with an open box and that made a very strong suggestion. It wasn't differently so.

B

Threw the case out and make them start all over again yeah. So that's just another way to look at.

A

This that causes me to read this question again. What is the standard for determining a difference.

A

In that particular case, um the board had finalized its public hearing process.

B

And the the next meeting and make a decision so one member went home and really thought.

B

Long and hard about what he heard of the evidence and sat down and he composed some.

B

Thoughts on piece of my thought, because of the issues that I think were unconcerned uh and.

B

um You know these are the magic events and then came to the next clinic working.

B

Everyone was going to deliberate and when he was asked his thoughts, remember.

B

He said oh well, last night I sat down in the posing. These are my thoughts. These are.

B

The things that I think you have to consider- and I this is the direction we should go and.

B

Make a decision now the court in that case did not say he was supporting just the case.

B

Decision making process with an open mind that the court said no, that's what you want a board.

B

Members, do you think hard about the case? It develops notes and thoughts share those thoughts.

B

As public ordinance and then participate in a you know, an active discussion when they get decision.

B

um Now is there a is there a fine line between what that member did and the alderman who votes.

B

Who's posts, the message on the opponent's website, I support you, I pose a project, I think that's.

B

Pretty clear you know, the ultimate is not being indifferent. Now the the planning board member.

B

Who composed the thoughtful series of questions suggestions, I think that's consistent with your.

B

Obligation to be a thoughtful segment, um but I don't know that I can come up.

B

With a bright line rule, this is indifference. For instance, this is prejudice, or you know.

B

Or informative opinion before you make it safe. These are just cases that give us some guidance.

B

Okay, I'm not sure I agree, but that's okay, all right! So that's just not a dangerous thought.

B

um So what I want to now go through some sort of the basic rule was eva and the responsibility that you have.

B

um So your your main responsibility, the statute and why you have a zoning board of adjustment.

B

It's fundamental reason why you have a zone part of adjustment. Is that the impact on the land from.

B

Land use regulations because uneven there's just no way you can practice learning organ.

B

Barely and evenly addresses um the effect of the zoning ordinance on image of our slant. This land.

B

Is unique land has so many attributes which are hard to categorize in a fashion that make sure it.

B

Applies to the fair faction of all pieces of land, because some property, so the role of the cda, is.

B

The same people- and you know we have developed resulting in the 20th century now in the 21st.

B

Century to provide for the orderly management abuse plan, but the fundamental and the original.

B

Zoning act that was adopted in the 19 20s, uh fundamentally also required. You can have a zoning.

B

Or a functional board that can allow a relaxation of the rules without that you're going to have a.

B

Taking and that's a violation of both the u.s and management, so uh you have this ability to.

B

Provide relief and it's relief by way of getting ovariance, preventing special exception or an.

B

Appeal of administrative safety, those are all the fundamental obligations or duties of the.

B

Cpm- and there are a number of ways in which you can be taking action to give that money.

B

um But one of the things you don't do is you're not being forcing authority. So if you have the.

B

Ingredients with staff or municipal attorneys, in terms of housing for us rules of procedure or your.

B

Decision making or your conditions of approval, that's for other people to enforce they're, not.

B

An enforcing agency you're, just an interpreting agency and also an application of the rules to.

B

Decide whether a bearings especially becoming new grant, you also have someone of an obligation which.

B

I think in a city like this is delivered mainly by the staff to assist the city and how to understand.

B

The zoning zoning emergency complex and they're hard for individual citizens to navigate something.

B

So I think that's right: you have a very um skilled commercial staff to help people come to.

B

The counter and have to fill out the applications get reliefs as they wanted to proceed with the.

B

Projects they want to approve around here, um but one of the ways that you enable yourself to have a.

B

Fairness for all concern that rules a procedure so that you have 30 details of procedure but defined.

B

And then, of course,.

B

um For a cpa, unlike the cleaning board, you don't have monthly meeting requirements in a.

B

Way where it has to be on a monthly basis, you only meet when you have applications.

B

Once a year, okay, now it's gone again.

B

So, what's the tba's jurisdiction, like I already touched on it, you do administrative appeals that.

A

We are into special exceptions. um You can also grant equitable waivers of dimensional.

B

Requirements special little provision that are off you get those, but someone says: oh, I made a mistake.

B

And I put my garage to both my neighbor's side to our lot line. I didn't know it. My surveyor is an.

B

Idiot, whatever it is, and they you know, they have an innocent mistake and they're fighting too close.

B

And they can try to prove you know they don't have to get a variance neighbor. You need to.

B

Keep those long over, they arrange each other's situation. You can also grant a special way for.

B

Building on class six private roads- I don't know if classics or private roads are a big deal here.

B

In or expect the rest of the state, especially in the north country, it's a real problem area.

B

You get also a special waiver for agricultural uses, so I don't know if that comes up here, but.

B

There's a special provision of the staff where someone can say I'm a pre-existing.

B

Agricultural use- I think this might apply to this picture people where they can get.

B

A special obligation of the city or the town to relax the rules, a.

B

Little bit competitive and magical for years, that's kind of how it works. We have tickets.

A

So the way the statute is worded, it refers to a pre-existing agriculture use and the way that the.

B

Statutes now work is, I don't. You probably have a pretty well covered, but to the extent the other.

B

Three existential abuse, which is not defined in your zoning ordinances, they're allowed to.

B

Continue and even expand to some degree um so long as they do it in a way that follows best.

B

Management practices because chickens per se in a president's neighborhood. If someone just.

B

All of a sudden says: I'm gonna have a bunch of chickens. That's not going to be a great existing.

B

Agriculture yeah, we have okay, we haven't been, but we have people apply for the bearings they.

B

Have chickens we sort of you know that you can have six chickens and six chickens, no roosters.

B

You know I, I will tell you this, that um I think you could conclude it's the way. I would have.

B

Spit it out that um it's reasonable for a board to include that this would be deemed in effect, if not.

B

In writing, but it implied accessory use for a home that you know you could conjure up from that point.

B

Of view that a home is allowed to have some degree of small agricultural activities, many people have.

B

Gardens I have one, you know it's now extend some domestic animals, but I gotta tell you: there's lots.

B

Of dogs, my neighborhood and I can get the dogs at park all night long, not the damn, loose trees.

B

Everybody, okay, so yeah, so you just have to you. Can you can you can conclude that you know that.

B

Is permissible activity kind of accessory to a home, but I would tell you if you are consistently.

B

Granting you know a variance for no more than six chickens. You might want to sing about. Let's amend.

B

The zoning words make that clear, yeah, let's move them all into the chicken zone, well, well,.

B

I just you know industrial average if you're consistently doing something and it's not.

B

Make it in writing.

A

Developing some, you know, and I I would assume that with some sensitivity you know in certain parts of.

B

The city, but certain block sites amongst the city it may not be able to see. I mean it depends on.

B

The other size, and what are the examples in this building, has been changed. People who disagree with.

A

The zoning, their change and then stormed into the zba requesting variances that the americans.

A

Are all granted for a six-month period until you know the plan before the city council goes yeah.

A

We've got to change that path because they're going right around the you know, your change.

A

Right wasn't well thought out right, so I I'm not I'm not encouraging that process. If you.

B

See it you know on a frequently enough basis. Yes, it's a signal that zoning is not working.

B

In this particular instance, it may need to be modified yeah, but I would also emphasize it's.

B

Not unreasonable to conclude them in certain circumstances, you know.

B

um You could come up with a conclusion that for a residential use, certainly limiting agricultural.

B

Activities, gardening certainly composting. Yes, uh you know all the people have dogs. How much.

B

Further is having a dog or a bunch of dogs, I don't know you know, especially dogs in a kennel.

B

To having some chickens you know, and what about so? I remember my my sister had a promise. She had more.

B

Rabbits, you know what we have to make some kind of judgment call what between you know, go beyond what.

B

Will be considered reasonably implied as part of our residential news, but you know if someone has a.

B

Chicken coop with you, know, 50 chickens and a bunch of roosters wait a minute. That's that's! That's.

B

Overboard, yeah yeah. Well I got a rooster around the corner and I don't care about it, but I'm sure.

B

um Now you also have the ability to deal with junkyard approval locations also.

B

I don't know if that's the case here, are you the building code, go to the fields and.

A

um So the the zba here appeals under the standard. You have to hear the middle of.

B

The reasonable time the cba can impose reasonable fees on people who are you.

B

Know uh looking for you for applications, please, you can also require someone to get.

B

um A reimbursement for third party review and consultation- I don't know how often that.

B

Might be an issue for your board, you know there could be special occasions cases where you need.

B

To have special input, the number of years ago I represented municipality, where it was a relatively.

B

New issue with regards to it's going to be a cell tower and a particular residential neighborhood.

B

I actually had to hire a electrical engineer field h to develop a whether or not he really.

B

Had to go there, I could have gone someplace else, so you can have that need and you can.

B

Have the statutory basis to ask for that kind of state of review and be paid for by the applicant.

A

So what are the decisions that can be available? uh It can be uh by any person who was agreed by any.

B

Officer department, board or bureau of municipality so to greet people who appeal to the cpa.

B

um And theoretically, planning board was agreed by building an improvement issue by the building.

B

Inspector for a good appeal to the cba- I don't know if they have standing, but I suppose.

B

Theoretically, they could, in fact, I just had an application that came up today, where the cpa well.

B

Apparently, in this particular town, the town had a plain board with cycling if you authority, but the.

B

Select word on its own decided to start issuing a permit for a use that required a site planning and.

B

The support has a building inspector I'll, be sure to have done that, because it only inspector is.

B

Not going to post an issue building permits that don't comply with anywhere regulations and fact.

B

um So plain work could appeal that decision to the cba and I understand that hearings. So it's.

B

Any decision by any municipal, official or board responsibility permits in your particular instance.

B

Maybe the building inspection police department said no. I can't issue this permit before it's.

B

Appeal to the cpa, the person can say that the cba I disagree with the buildings particularly said.

B

And by the way now I might be wrong, so I'm going to ask for a variance at the same time. This is.

B

Not an uncommon approach that applicants would take, um so it also includes any interpretation.

B

Construction or application in terms of the ordinance, but it doesn't include discretionary.

B

Decisions, um so it's you're dealing with a situation where synthesis half a year, someone.

B

Could appeal that decision to sort of cpa to proclaim or make a proper decision and discussion.

A

So the ordinance is pretty black and white. You don't need much discretion to determine the.

A

Clients- so I think you know, generally speaking, local officials who are too voted for some.

B

Personality, they have prosecutorial destruction. Not you can't take every case to court to say.

B

This is a zoning violence, so you have to leave that discretionary decision. So if you are grieved.

B

By the fact that I take being taken to court about having to leave chickens, but my neighbors.

B

You can't appeal that discretionary decision you can appeal the fact that I don't think I'm wrong.

B

But you can't the discretionary judgment to uh to take the enforcement action and people that I can.

B

Certainly appeal the cbi, I think they're they're wrong and I become allowed to act against you.

A

um The effect of the wheel of the zba is supposed to stop the issues so building specification into.

B

The permanent and you you agree with your neighbor, says: you're building the garage too.

B

Close by appeal as the neighbors to the fact that it was built with the stein yard setback.

B

Permit's supposed to be revoked and destruction is going to stop.

B

um You can appeal an order or other enforcement in that supposed to stay any proceedings. So if.

B

I'm in court trying to stop uh a code violation- um it's not going to it, can normally stop that.

B

Enforcement action, but if the building inspection system, you can't prevent me from pursuing this.

B

Enforcement action because there was serious public health safety and welfare and concern.

B

You could have a say that would allow you to uh normally the state would not apply, and you.

B

Can still pursue most of the time it's when you appeal at the cba everything's supposed.

B

To stand still stand still with the permit stand, still reinforcement action, let's close.

B

To you, you know there is this: the state that this alleged is correct by having the matter.

A

um But it doesn't stay at other proceedings under other landing sports. No, it doesn't necessarily.

B

Stay but let's just assume well, let's assume that the planning board has got an application.

B

Winning board um if well, let's let me put that in the context, um if the plain board.

B

Makes a decision as to whether a use is beginning um and they were bound to.

B

They made it, they may defer they've made a written decision as part of the preliminary.

B

Approval of the use permitting someone is agreed by that decision. um I can appeal that decision.

B

By saying I'll flutter opposing project, this is created by completing words right in order to.

B

Give a preliminary and now uh the the buddhist killed cpa. um I think you know the way I would.

B

Tear down here is behoove the planning work not to go to final approval until such time as we can.

B

Have the issue being dressed by the zoning board of adjusting, and I I think you could say that the.

B

Effect of the appeal would stay final action by the planning board. It's a claim. Word can't approve.

B

An application, unless it conformist, there's a question and they should receive conflict.

B

um Your board acts as a decision maker of whether the or a variance should be.

B

Friends or denied, but if someone is denied an application, subsequent applications are.

B

An unsuccessful condition or are limited, that is, if I've applied once for a variance.

B

um And I've been denied, I can't ask the same variance ever again unless materially give.

B

That's official versus overtakes and it's meant to make sure once I've had a chance to have the case.

B

Heard and I applied and I've been denied, language appeal is the final decision. I can't come back.

B

And ask for that same variance ever again unless it's materially different, the materially different.

B

Could be to change the application now, instead of having the garage within five yard, set back five.

B

Feet of the setback it's going to be within test, so it was significantly different. I just move the.

B

Garage away, but I want to change the applicable legal standards- could also be material change.

B

Over that property, yes, you know, so it gives us the taxes for the land.

B

It was sort of it's dictated right, and so, if I I have to put that private set.

B

Back in my garage and I got denied outside- that's not really something I could change.

A

He doesn't get either, but fred comes in and says: okay, I'm gonna put it 10 feet away and.

B

I'm going to reduce the size of garage and and and so mainly and that's in part by when you say.

B

No, you need to say why you're saying no, because by saying why you're saying you're also totally happy.

B

If you understand why we said no, you now have the instructions on how to get a yes and you.

B

Could apply and say I've made a materially different application and I forget to guess.

B

um They may not want to do that, but that's part of the reason why you give them that that answer.

B

As to why you've said well, but this is a complete inventory that things can have to do as a certain.

B

Word of the judge so number one you have to have in your rules. What's a reasonable time to appealia.

B

um Because once the permit is issue, there's kind of a necessity of letting the land use.

B

The processary not including rules, it's not in the statute, how long you have to work so.

B

Typically, you want to have your and your muslim procedure, anyone is agreed by the issuance of.

B

That decision by the administrative officer in building a tractor or another administrative.

B

Body has to appeal within 30 days of the decision, for the premise um statute says you're supposed.

B

To have a hearing with 45 days of receiving the appealing, but then there's a new position. That's.

B

Split into effect august 23rd, that's part of the reason why I gave you this document.

B

Which is a complete inventory of changes as of august 23 cbas have 90 days in front of the city.

B

I'll cover that a little bit more in the tail on another slide um again in terms of how you.

B

Can do your job you have to give those to affected persons those listed first, the time to be notified.

B

By certified mail account is requested, are verified. Now people have to have the opportunity.

B

To be heard, what the people required to be heard, and then you have the option to do some other than.

B

Your decision has to be based on the fact of the evidence is not something that was received as.

B

Information from outside the hearing room, but no one knew about it, such as information from.

B

A playlist that the chair, the zba and infield that you see the essential has completed by any.

B

Part of tribunal, europe and partial, through the requirements of being a spot by tomorrow,.

B

So let me break down some of these requirements in more detail.

B

A

A

So let me touch on that in a bit, um so this new law of uh time for.

B

Physicians, have this obligation over the statute that says paragraph 8 of 674-33.

B

um So you have to make a final decision in 1988. The applicant can waive that requirement.

B

um But the cba in the event the applicant says I won't give you an extension of time.

B

Which they would give you cpa could uh make a final decision uh that does not uh grant.

B

Or deny but simply denies the application without prejudice not avoids the official versus over.

B

So that's an option um and then, if the applicant is denied without purchase the applicants.

B

Future but now you have to do 90 days um unless the applicant.

B

Extends, but if you can't make a decision you could, you know deny without practice.

B

um So, who must be heard of the cpa? Hearing salt 676 colon seven so clearly here.

B

um You have the stats, you say who shall hear more butters and holders of those.

B

Who have conservation, preservation or agricultural preservation restrictions.

B

People who have an interest in chinese and the black type um the board can also has to hear all.

B

None of others who can demonstrate that they are affected directly by accident. Now, there's a number.

B

Of things to take into account, when you look at that issue, one of the things the importance that.

B

We talked about when you've consider that issue is, you know what extent someone can show they're.

B

Directly affected but they're not at a gun, so you would look at a number of things. What's the.

B

Proximity of a challenges party's property: are they within 100 feet or are they two miles away.

B

um What is the type of change proposed? How would the change that's being posed by the applicant.

B

Be arguably directly affect someone who is not in a voter but nearby? What's the immediacy of.

B

The injury that's claimed, you know, I think, most of the time. I don't know what your experience.

B

Is but someone's going to claim offline impact they're going to refer to things like apartment.

A

And it may be noise or it could be from eligible respective blues yeah. Those are the kind of things.

B

That they're going to argue about now, that's impacted, my my view shed or my quiet enjoying of.

B

My property and someone could say I have a quiet enjoyment uh which is injured by the large amount.

B

Of additional traffic that might be generating from the subject property and it's likely that.

B

The distributed traffic will be going right onto your door and I'll. Let me go to my driveway.

B

And well that might be sufficient to say that almond butter has a building to be heard.

B

um And then other than not a butters who are directly affect the antibiotics on the african.

B

Easement holders the board can hear from such other persons as it deems a problem. So that's how.

B

The statute is working, you know, differentiating between someone who just says generally, um I'm.

B

Trying to defend the interests of the beauty of a portsmouth, accountable, living room future.

B

Who would have standing put there on? You know on the opposite side of the city, not really directly.

B

Affected around the butter is really a judgment call, but there's actually been some cases of this.

B

Recently, where the supreme court has been clear, you know cba action is not meant to be. You know a.

B

An assessment of the popularity of what the uses it really has to be based upon. How does the use.

B

Directly affect you know how butters of those who are not a virus industry that they would be doing.

A

For that sure, so somebody across a pond or spring or something like that they may not.

A

Be technically in a butter, but doesn't the water body itself converse some butter.

A

Well I'll, just let me just read this message.

A

All right means any prisoner's. Property is located in new hampshire and it joins score. Is.

B

Directly across the street or stream from the land under consideration by the local winds.

B

um Now you know, does the word strain embrace a body of water.

B

Theoretically, I suppose you know um it doesn't say body is one of them. It says streamed if that.

B

Does, I think, refer to a intermittent, or you know, regular running stream.

B

um But again the fact that they're, not necessarily in a butter they still might be able to.

B

Demonstrate them directly affected sufficiently than they would form the category of being. You.

B

Know those who have to get hurt yeah case some time ago there was a number of non-abutters that.

A

Assisted on testifying against the application, some of these people live two miles away.

A

On stream, no road, they just wanted to testify against it, because they, I think, had banded.

A

Together as a group and said we're going to send a army down there and to try to stop the experience.

A

So in that context, if how would you determine if they're a lot of voters.

A

You said you shall hear all none of us if they can demonstrate their directly affect.

A

So, kids and chairs these people having to reply, I think you could- and I think you could create.

A

A hierarchy when you're going to hear from public hearing, I think you could, in your.

A

Rules are procedure, saying you're gonna help me out of an old republic here, they're going.

B

To appear for people who are not a voters directly demonstrated and then we'll hear from such other.

A

I think you could do that. Sorry, you know, as we hear the application, the new chairs.

A

The application, generally speaking forward.

B

Yeah, well, I think, when you're hearing those who support the application or a pose, you could.

B

Street within each of those two parts, a subset of we'd like to hear from.

A

Those buyers who support the application so we're doing the voters here to support the.

A

Application and then we'd like to hear from you about our school, oppose them.

A

But then you can go to now. We want to hear from non-butters who can show they're directly.

A

Affected who support the application versus non-vironers, who showed it directly so.

A

Procedures that are powered wrong to break down and see that then then you get to those.

B

Others don't talk to the directly effective category of the abundance and then you begin.

B

You know weighing your evidence began. I think what you're doing by doing that, you're also giving our.

B

Entire fields, the the weight in which you'll be providing you'll be weighing that evidence. What.

B

Way, you will grant, and I would assume both of you would agree that the director really gives.

B

Personal information about how the traffic on the road is already bad and it's going to get.

B

Much worse, but this particular use that has some weight, whereas someone who's throughout's way.

B

We're trying it's going to be horrible. Where did you fill into the picture so that you're just.

B

Giving away you're, naturally using the evidence from those people who are directly offended to.

B

Give give it the way more, those who are not effective at all, theoretically that that way,.

B

Kind of what I would tear down um and, in fact, there's a new case here.

B

um That kind of taught something about andrew development versus.

B

So uh it was a case in romney multi-family housing project. um Among the reasons why the southern.

B

Oregon has committed, the use um was whether or not the use would not reduce if they kind of would not.

B

Reduce the value of the property from the district, not the injurious, obnoxious or offensive behavior.

B

But the security court concluded supreme court agreed that the dba erroneously relied upon.

B

Public comment component project to property basis, decision on aesthetics and by judging the.

B

Application solely unpopularity there were lots of people opposing it. They, whom were not a voters.

B

Didn't want to see the project go forward.

A

Now, I think, for why it cannot put on the supreme court level, is that it was undisputed. The exact.

B

Same building could be built. We really have the same level of oculus um for an apartment.

B

As compared to what was allowed by wright a hotel owners, so it was very hard to then distinguish, but.

B

How could you say no to a 70 unit, 16 multi-family, when you get 76 individual rooms for people in.

B

A hotel and there's a whoops material difference and there was no difference. I don't know what the.

B

Court said it appeared with the cpa, didn't know why very much on the popularity now that's harder.

B

Now, if they're all on directive, letters at very common reasons why this is a material impact on.

B

Our uses, their property, that's different than everyone is not enough about it. They're not even.

B

Directly affected and they're just saying you know, keep our town wait. We want it not.

B

But others might will be willing to do it. So it's kind of I think what the court was saying.

A

Person, fluidity of the argument, even two foreign.

A

To setting up or say yes, right and and hopefully in this particular instance,.

B

Why uh why the multi-family housing was not the same as conversations.

B

um Now I think uh you know thomas right, you had the question about, maybe so under the high.

B

Business mind would, you think, would regardless about that you'll subtract. The answer to your.

B

Question, I think what you're asking is you know, situations where um the board receives evidence.

B

I think this is mainly trying to give you kind of a group of how to assess evidence. Do we see.

B

The evidence during hearing that you can collected like encounter what you're saying is that are on.

B

Occasions with the cba receive something in your as a deliverable that gets into your pocket or.

B

You can become aware of it in a fashion that it applicability hasn't a chance to consider it. You.

B

Know one of the things I would say on that issue. um You know what the town that I represented for.

B

Both the cpa and the plane board and delivered process. You wanted something to be considered.

B

An application engineering report a sufficient memo. It had to be in the packet when we got into.

B

The packet is, we delivered it to the community development department on the thursday before.

B

The following wednesday, and then she delivered it on time- was that simple, the board member, so they.

B

Received by monday, the monday, before the wednesday meeting, they had no chance to consider it.

B

um So I guess you know if there was a procedure where you had to make sure that those who want.

B

To submit information had to follow that process that would limit his last-minute submission of the.

B

Application to look at now, you're always going to have occasions where someone says if they come to.

B

A cba meeting we just got this engineered. I'm sorry, I would have said it in previous again.

B

That's going to happen um the problem we're going to face, especially now that you have this 90-day.

B

Limitation, you might say: well it's only fair. He loves. You haven't seen that report or a chance.

B

To look at it and consider it instead of a joined her, but we're not going to be able to do that. You.

B

Know as frequently as maybe you could have in the past, because 90 day deadline, so there's a need.

B

To to set up procedures for you to submit things on the timely fashion, so when I did applications.

B

For the social security administration, I wanted to spit out of medical report and have it there.

B

10 days ago, in here, and if I wanted to rely on something that would support my point of view, I.

B

Had to have the opportunity same thing happened. That's the department of labor. If I wanted to.

B

Present an argument on a facebook on a trial before a hearing officer it had to be submitted.

B

Five days beforehand and those materials have been shared or proposed, accounts in five days.

B

Beforehand, so everyone saw everything that was really appeared into evidence, so it might just.

B

Justify developing some very you know realistic orders. If you wanted to make a submission, you want.

B

To submit a last-minute report or make an argument um based upon documentation, you know you really.

B

Have to get them beforehand, it has to be within the certain time frame. So it's fair! It's all! I'm.

B

Concerned that all have a chance to consider and invited the information. So we have situations.

A

Fairly routine, where, especially in kearney's, presumably an application, nfl information.

A

That sort of has no chance that we really want to have a chance to.

A

Just if it's more than a very fresh on because we're trying to listen to them.

A

So you're saying we could establishment that if you want to, I think it's not a bad idea.

B

um You know, is it going to be a hard cast rule? Maybe uh you know attorneys are in that situation.

B

Quite curriculum, they're told you're going to make a a trial and superior court. You know it's.

B

Courtesy pre-trial management conference- let's say you know, we don't have members of law and.

B

Supporting your argument, 10 days before the hearing and they've got this piece of their.

B

Own timely fashion now there's always a need perhaps to relax those rules, but I think that's.

B

One approach you might take is to manage, through the rules of procedure, how the information is.

B

Received and as much as possible to make sure that this is fair share of that information. Everyone.

B

Wants to do what they're kind of suggesting you come in at the last second say: I've got the death.

B

Note, for this case, I'm the abundance of attorney and this is going to kill it. Here's the argument.

B

They lay this paperwork out and no one has had a chance to see it. The applicant's attorney put.

B

Their hair on right, so I think that's something to consider I'm not going to say it's going to solve.

B

All your problems, but it's one way to consider if you're trying to have a regular routine, want.

B

Something to go to the board- I see you by this time so that the packet can be shared not only.

B

With the board but everyone else, because I I don't know if you post your packets online yeah.

B

So it's just it's a fairness issue to make sure the information is fairly shared to all concerns.

A

But we also recently had a case where we got a memo from another department in the city.

A

That had a particular decision and it was received hearing.

A

Really validated one direction, immunization might think it was out any chance for me. So.

A

It's an out of a counter expert on it, and I I think that if I was the.

B

Advocates attorney, who saw it happen? I would be a little bit unhappy, you know, but you know.

B

um Again, I'm not trying to direct. You know you to go a certain way in terms of writing.

B

Procedure, these are good things to think about right, much as possible. You know like.

B

Fairness so make sure that when you set down and the other thing I'm going to say, you know.

B

There is no way, but I wasn't playing anymore- to receive 15-page detailed civil engineering.

B

Report understanding read it and make decisions. I had a plan about media appraising. I can't read.

B

It, but this is a testament, it just doesn't work. Okay, I think the worst thing is, it's surely not.

A

Fair to us, you know that put us in that position again. So if we, if we given probably procedure.

B

We have the option that important to.

A

A

I don't know what hey I've seen this before they come in. You know, I've got you know.

B

Noise engineer I was going to give you about voice impacts and I've already.

B

Talked I just got the report from this. The only noise I've ever heard at the war base.

B

And he would say you know we're gonna you're gonna reports. It could only be continue now to.

B

A period within 90 days, so you know you, you think it is really coming on applicants. Those who spent.

A

Between and you know, there's a process, we have it, that's the way you go, you know things have.

B

To be expended on timely faction, you want us to consider the document of that type. You know you.

B

Have to spend so many days beforehand now, I'm not saying you don't take the testimony. People.

B

Are going to submit last minute in the comments yeah, so I don't know what your process is, but.

B

Typically, what we'll do in cba meeting we've got email comments, um we'll say: okay before I open.

B

The public here I just want to say that I've got the following letters from you know. We got.

B

A letter from so, and so is the butter. Thank you sports, a project on a letter, otherwise.

B

Read them quickly and you can summarize and say and they'll be in the materials here. Anyone else.

B

Wants a letter so that move on from there it's a little bit different, saying you're, taking a.

B

Comment versus a comprehensible report on a particular project, there's a difference.

A

That person could still stand up and give a brief summary of the federal report without.

A

The other side having had that other patterns and then then you can say I'll just state what.

B

I think that report says some reform and I'll submit this, and um you know opposing parties are.

B

Concerned against their, you know, consideration of that issue, but what you'd be doing is the person.

B

Will say: here's the knowing that fancy noise report, but it's just going to go into the cba's.

B

Packing for the next meeting, that's basically what would be happy for the 90 days from here. It starts.

B

With a seat to see the applications deadline, yeah, so you've got 90 days from now receipt. So.

B

That's really the critical time period. We have some reality as long as we're consistent. Yes,.

A

I think violent to try to be. You know, get fairness of all concerned, but.

B

So just to go through, you know what, as with this slide, you know if you put the evidence you apply.

B

Later tests yeah, I think one narrative- that's important- is considerable discussion to choose.

B

Between competing expert reports that I don't know how often that happens here, but it's it's.

B

An issue that comes up occasionally, but when will you have to accept a report expert report? Is it.

B

Uncontradicting, you know, but the board might decide in certain instances um that you know.

B

When you're looking at two competing reports, I've seen this on a number of occasions with traffic.

B

Reports, you know one traffic engineer just says that is another. One says why we don't know you.

B

Know which way is going once and you you have the ability to make your own judgments whether or not.

B

Those experts are reliable and one is better than the other and people you know go with you because.

B

You know the one that seems most reliable one area, that is something you can be aware of- is that if.

B

All of the experts say this is so you can't really ignore it. It won't be in a position to ignore.

B

Uncontrovicted expert, if there's one case in fact, condos east, we always have to recite people where.

B

The the condo, the conway's plan, conway planning board, really wanted this project to have a second.

B

Big means of ingress and egress, they had one way into the project, but the pointy work said.

B

No, we want another. We want me to build another road over here to give an alternate ingress and.

B

Egress of this the project, but the town's engineer said you didn't, need it plenty more as expert.

B

Consultants needed the applicant's engineers, so all the experts said you don't need to do.

B

This and many words that we don't care, we want it anyway, and the supreme court said we can't do that.

B

um So that's one only area to be concerned with, um but you also have the power to rely on your.

B

Personal knowledge, so personal knowledge is something that I've worked rely upon, but.

B

You just can't ignore uncognitive opinions of experts, but you can use the authority to hire.

B

A consultants to assist you in making your decisions, so I'm obviously confused foreign.

A

Right they never get a chance to do it.

A

Well, I think it's up to us to decide whether or not they are an expert. I don't think that.

A

We basically own an attorney is so important problem by your expert, something that that.

A

They aren't in it, they are an officer.

B

A

Yeah, it was um in in the case where landia sports may hire consultants.

A

um Consultants aren't free right. Basically, report can require enough to pay for the cost of special.

B

Investigative studies, including a hiring expert at the expense in the applicant to review the.

A

Generation we had provisions for the ordinances to allow that or yes, like the direct provision.

A

For that for the statutes government, thank you. um So uh I think to summarize the decision-making.

B

Process now I have statute contemplates most instances. The cva is made up of five members, so.

B

For a cpa in that setting, it's got to have three members concur now in your situation, after four.

B

Because that's the the majority of a cell member board, you have to use one consistent voting method.

B

So I don't know what you do, but in my cpa, what we do is once we close the public hearing, then.

B

The chairman of the cpa is the bearings he says: okay and then he goes through five requirements.

B

For the parents he says: uh okay, uh mr buckley. How do you find on the issue of criteria.

A

Assuming that most of the time everyone has said they do that or not, then uh we then someone makes.

B

A motion so, for instance, by the side, yard setback of industrially used to a railroad yard of great.

B

Details- man, I made the movie and madam chairman, that we grant the parents to minimum to allow.

B

Intrusion in the side yards setback for us- and we do this because you know there's no.

B

um Material needs for this industrial building to be set back more than a certain amount of distance.

B

That is safely needed because the railroad doesn't object, happy to have the industrial ability expand.

B

A little bit so we find that the purposes of the side, yard setback will still be met by.

B

Commanding the bearings I mean I've formulated a kind of a mode in that effect I mean it's all.

B

Voted on that boat and embedded in that motion was defining a fact that there was no, that the amount.

B

The change the amount of change was, you know, changing the amount of setback from 30 feet to.

B

20 feet so it's a 10 yard, 10 foot difference, but it was not a budding another use. It was a party.

B

A railroad rider bike yeah the maker's motion goes through the fire department secondary.

A

Disagree that whatever verifying, because any board members for you to jump in with verifyings of that.

A

That also precludes people who I mean they can always speak other members who may not agree with.

A

The motion- maybe there's no emote or they can they start to fix their argument. For the same reasons.

B

Well, I guess the thing I would just mention is that you have to have one consistently.

B

You have to do it with notice and then you can, as the statute says, you can't modify it after.

B

A period of 60 days, so the board should use one voting method in any chain through the board's.

B

Voting procedures should not take effect because, 60 days after the board has voted.

B

To adopt or change so, if you wanted to change, you adopt the change of the 60 days later and.

B

Begin using the chain, but if you're sticking with what you're already doing, you're fine.

B

Well, that's this is designed to prevent that right. If that you have to have a.

B

Procedure, that's well known, preferably in your rules and procedure, but you.

B

Want to change it, you can do it, but yeah wait! 60 days before you use it.

B

um Yeah, so your decision obviously has to be in writing. You have to state the reason. This is why.

B

You recruit disapproved, um we have the interest of approval, I you know most instances, I'm assuming.

B

You would give a traditional approval, saying uh sure many reviews here for this commercial.

B

Operation but it'll be something by the planning board or any other necessary requirements that.

B

Would ordinarily be attached, then you have issue decision within five business names.

B

All which is kind of an investigative process um that I'm sure staff uh this new requirement for.

B

Finance fact: yes, so it's it's still possible to continue to do conditional approvals. Yes,.

A

um And for for a plane for a cpa, it's moses, the uh presumably it's decided to say to the.

B

Applicant for granted unit additional approvement or something of these conditions, and they could be.

B

You know, via condition, theoretically proceedings, you can't get a building permitted until you.

B

Cyclone review, but you can also have a traditional subs by saying we're, granting your permission.

B

To put in this uh all uh this taco bell, but you can't have operations after midnight and the spot.

B

Box having to touch or whatever you know, you can always ask the village yeah. You have stipulations.

A

Yeah, yes, everything's got to be recent.

B

Or that if you're saying no, you have to have a finance effect as to why you're saying no but.

B

Or it fails to make specific funds, in fact um supporting and disapproval it's around.

B

For automatic reversal and we're manned by the spirit accord, so keep that in mind you don't say.

B

Why you're saying no based upon is a fact, and people are aggrieved by that they could get an.

B

Automatic reversal, that's something you have to be aware of you're already required to say why you're.

B

Saying no, but now you have to include these are the findings of support from these waters. We've.

A

Got to meetings under the new ah okay yeah, all right for people, so um I I some of this is kind.

B

Of common sense, you know the cba does not have to you know: exclusion of experts, you're trying.

B

To question reject the methodology of experts, uh you can disregard an expert opinion. I think the.

B

Really interesting case was a three-pound resort case versus a town in milton this is a situation.

B

Where an african wanted to put in a significant expansion to an existing campground, so they were.

B

Adding travel weight, 30 percent more campsites to a campground, the campground was located on a.

B

Lake, in order to get to that campground, it was a relatively rural road that led to the nearest.

B

State highway to the campground, and it was a considerable issue as to whether or not that.

B

Road supported the additional traffic, um and so the really interesting thing about the zba members.

B

Who provided their own personal knowledge about the fact that I traveled that road creatively.

B

During august of july, high season before the use of camp ground and it's crowded and there's.

B

A lot of people apart the dangerous side of the road and pairing line of sight and jeopardizing.

B

With movement of people going on that road by foot and one of the things that came out, yeah.

B

Had done a study in may when the traffic season was much more acute in july and august, so the.

B

Zba members were able to provide that direct evidence that undermines the traffic study.

B

Allows the cbh, based on their personal knowledge, you know, even though this was the only time to.

B

Say that was available, they were able to use that person knowledge to say nothing. We don't.

B

Think you've got a sound basis for your opinion, no matter how loud the zba to support their.

B

Evolution network of denied the various questions so again some issues to keep in mind about how the.

B

Cba resistance before it says, but uncontradicted thanks for testament overcomes down already knows.

A

How is that? Not the exact time difference here is that there was direct knowledge that did undermine.

B

The opinion of the expert, so what happened in the kind of milton case? We found a resort. Those.

B

Members had direct evidence that they were able to show demonstrated. The traffic study was unreliable.

B

And their direct ability to observe movement of traffic during the high season for vacationers.

B

And demonstrated that the road was not adequate and would not supported right generally right.

B

This is very specific technology, because general members have been here could be in the same town.

A

For 30 years and their general knowledge of the town could be greater than a specific expert. I.

B

Think you know, I think here I think it's more important. They were acutely aware of how that.

B

Road was not supported the existing traffic during the season and adding you know, 30 more campsites.

A

Was going to make the situation much worse and the traffic study had done in july or august he's.

A

Done at the wrong time of the year, this is that something well, it's exactly yeah, and so what the.

B

The direct evidence of the members demonstrated that this was not our report. Okay, but what do.

A

You see the developer, bring forth a study that contradicts his development. Well, I look like I.

B

Tell you I don't know I've seen enough lawyers who sometimes don't read the reports. They should read.

B

The golden output for their client- but you know it's a careful examination- might demonstrate that.

B

They don't have in support of evidence. That's what happened that happened here. um I want. This is an.

B

Important uh concept that uh I think always bears the touch of the partner versus city manchester,.

B

Place so puts his kids came down to whether or not the cpga here, which decided to a particular.

B

Relief about wanted to get was not needed. With the cpa concluded, there was no need for this person to.

B

Get a variance, and I'm going to be in the details that had to do with whether I use the church could.

B

Be used for housing, the homeless cost of providing them uh a uh a place to eat. You know whether that.

B

Was a municipal use within that particular zone? So the bargain, of course, the city of manchester case.

B

What the cba said you don't need a varians. It's been in use that people are posing the project.

B

Said you can't do that part of the cba cb doesn't happen. I'm sorry. You've got to rule on this on the.

B

Application as presented, but the supreme court said no, no, every variance application contains.

B

And this very thing happened recently in front of my cpa, where there was a situation where a use was.

B

Near a class six road and next to a class five road and we looked at the gate and we wrote wait.

B

A minute they're, a barn that art zoning order requires a step back from classified roads, but.

B

The barn, but they wanted to build an addition on, was anywhere near the nearest classified road. It.

B

Was closed but it wasn't near and so we've included the indian barriers because you're.

B

Not building within a certain prohibited distance of a classified road you're only building limited.

B

Distance of plastics for a doesn't matter, and so you have that power to say when you get an.

B

Application wait a minute. We determine that no variance is necessary. This permanent news.

B

This sounds like decisions.

A

In some instances and we've experienced a high volume of conflict between the zoning.

A

Board language: well, I would say that having been on both employee board for 10 years and now, but.

B

On the cbas or five years I would say it's not always the case that they see it eye to eye and.

B

They have different opinion on house and the importance is interpreted, but ultimately it's.

B

The cbh power to decide what jordans means, not the planning boards, which sometimes the.

B

Planning work, don't necessarily agree with. um Certainly we would hope that is where it will.

B

Work in harmony, but really is the job of the cba to make a decision, but would it be working schemes.

B

How it applies certain circumstances, but this I think the evidence that this particular case I.

B

Always feels important be aware that you have this ability to say, even though the applicants applied.

B

For an areas, and even though, in my case, our our building of the purchase, I don't know they have.

B

To have our parents for this, we went out to a cyprus and I don't know how often you can decide.

B

This site visit and looked at what they were doing and how it was related to the frontage and looked.

B

At our our planning, the the community development program said, would you make this decision? I mean.

B

What we look at is we don't make behavior areas, um so it could be situations where they just didn't.

B

Understand how that particular was formed by there were no supply in that situation. We figured it out.

B

For the cyclist eventually, so they don't even know so you have judgments and no circumstances were.

B

um So, just to spend a little more time, specifically my special exceptions and variances.

B

um We're all probably very much aware that a variance is something that is permission to.

B

Do something that's not even the ordinance criteria where it's a special exception is.

B

The town has decided, the city has decided. This is a use which we will allow if you.

B

Meet these for criterion, I think the big thing to keep in mind is for a difference.

B

Between the two variances for discretionary special exceptions, however, if the applicant.

B

Satisfied to criteria you're required to find the permission and that's the big difference.

B

um So let me spend a little time to go through the criteria for a variance criteria. Number one.

B

The variants will not be contrary to the public interest, so you're really looking at was the.

B

Proposal ultimate character will validate or threaten public health saving welfare.

B

Would the spirit of the ordinance be observed it's kind of similar and that's why we often look.

B

At criteria one and two together because they kind of are similar, so you look at the effect.

B

The variance we have a lot of the goal of those other ordinance which might begin or end with.

B

Review of the conference master plan, so you're really looking at. Is it really consistent with.

B

What the master plan might have said that this particular zone was supposed to be used for or how.

B

It would have the character of the use would have really threatened public health, safety and welfare.

B

That's why they offer club together. um Substantial justice is done. You know the way the court has.

B

Teed up how you analyze this issue is: um would the loss to the individual that is.

B

Not outweighed by king of the general public, that is, you know the the injustice had to be such that.

B

um You are, in fact, putting a burden on the individual, which is not justified.

B

With regard to the outcome that you want for those other ones to have this particular area.

B

um So the proposed development- you know you will also want to look at whether the.

B

Proposed development system with the area is present use and you know, are you fact.

B

Weighing the two impact on the individual versus the benefit of the public at large.

B

Diminution of surrounding properties, you know what the values of surrounding properties not.

B

Redefinition, um this is the area where you know, based on my experience, especially working with.

B

This a lot of cba heroes in the city of manchester there's a lot of the ways that's going to come up.

B

You know everyone, who's kind of hasn't a better say, is going to really have a terrible impact on.

B

The value of my product, I have a 3300 you've, also seen any number of ways in which applicants will.

B

Try to um at the poor seeking their variants kavinci was not going to have an impact. They.

B

Might hire a realtor to give an opinion of value they might have all the way up to you.

B

Know a formal assessment of value by a real estate appraisal and trying to really weigh.

B

Impact of a particular use, as proposed by an african budding property. uh You know I, I think.

B

That you really have to make your own judgment as to what's the most reliable piece of information.

B

um And I think that I think preparing the average no case every new no case from palestine.

B

um What you probably want to make sure is you're, not it talks to popularity economics. You have a.

B

Title you don't have to really assess that someone sentences can store the value of my property, say.

B

Well, okay: this is just a garage or maybe it's evu over the garage. How would you explain that.

B

To me, why is that going to store the value of your property, whereas to someone, if it's you.

B

Know little too many crafting style homes in the neighborhood, if someone's putting in a big mansion.

B

Yeah, that's that's a big of a poke or or a skunk in a garden party. So those are the things that you.

B

Don't bring common sense to make a decision? Is this really a diminution of the value of.

B

Someone's property, you know, but you're always going to have those cases where they have the.

B

Opinion to be a realtor for the opinion of value or every time I've heard a real leader with an.

B

Opinion of value it's pretty easy to find out. They usually involved in the transaction. That's going.

B

To come out of this situation, if you approve the variance, you really begin to wonder how reliable.

B

The other hand someone's hired a real professional appraiser who have standards they have to meet in.

B

Terms of getting appraisers appraisals of value, then you have to really listen to them. Okay, you.

B

Know there's some serious evidence here that maybe there is supports no diminished or not.

B

And I think it's just a question of weighing the evidence that you received and receive it.

B

um A little enforcement of the ordinance with on this say, hardship. I think the really big way that.

B

You know I've seen basically indicates that I've deciding you know is in part one. You know it's.

B

Always a special conditions that distinguish the use from others to the area and there's no.

B

Substantial relationship between the general purpose of the ordinance and the application.

B

For that to the property, and again this case, I just had the other day where there was industrial.

B

Facility that wanted to expand they haven't they realistically only the one direction and.

B

That direction had to protrude them inside your setback in the industrial zone, they were going to.

B

Move a little bit closer to a railroad right away and we were having a hard time saying: how is this.

B

Going to have a diminution, I can change. You know by the fact of the purposes of the emergency side.

B

Are setbacks? You know, as long as the railroad doesn't care, we're not prepared to say what.

B

This would do was going to cause this particular zone that I found where I live. The industrial zone.

B

That was going to have an unreasonable impact, but certainly the proposal was reasonable, so I.

B

Think that's kind of the ways like those are being without decision making you know is really is the.

B

Strong argument has to be that this particular sewing requirement is a particular situation.

B

um There's no fair and substantial relationship requiring certain requirements and that the.

B

Purpose of the ordinance are not being served in this instance for this particular application.

B

Now you can also skip down to part two, which is you know if you can't satisfy that and you.

B

Can use reasonable um what there is there are necessary arch of date and says if and only if,.

B

In the special conditions, the property cannot be reasonably used to strict important performance.

B

And therefore, an ordinance uh variance necessary, that's a harder standard. It's basically a standard.

B

Saying don't rent me this there's, no reasonable user can make the property and, in fact, you're.

B

Going to take the use of the property away from you, that's a take. Okay, it's a harder argument.

B

um The the fair substantial relationship is really the easier.

B

um There is one for the land um it's granted with respect to a piece of property does not.

B

um It's not the respect for the personal needs and preferences of the circumstances of the property.

B

Owner it really has to do with the circumstances of the property and once granted, it runs with.

B

The plan, the benefit of present and subsequent owners of the property special exceptions.

A

You know the zoning ordinances said we will allow certain uses to do these requirements.

B

um So it's used permitted.

B

um As long as the conditions are satisfied um and if they are satisfied, the deviation required permission.

B

um It's not the same thing as a non-conforming use. It's a little bit different, sometimes experiences.

B

Are considered to be done, reduce actually, who this is it's a youth, that's committed as long as the.

B

Conditions are satisfied, but we were to sort of laid down as required to get the special extension.

B

um You have to have standards like arizona's, complete with very detailed standards for special.

B

Exception, which I think they're very detailed, especially about what I would compare to special.

B

Exceptions of the zoning organics has a number of commissioned use, departments and planning board.

B

Grants really like special extensions. Typically, it's planning works, job and management, decide.

B

Whether running candidates- but I mean not surprisingly- we don't have clear standards.

B

A special exception having a sufficient level of authority to allow one set of body to prevent.

B

Special exceptions without clear standards and you know most learning ordinances. You know those.

B

Equipment by ours only learning to be able to have service permissions, my special exception, then we.

B

Have between eight and ten separate conditions, each special exception has to be so. It's not easy.

B

To get by as long as they satisfy those criteria but they're, something that has to be granted.

B

um This is a question. That's come up here where someone will ask for a variance for the term of.

B

A special study, so the special exception, says: yes, we can grant a whole lot of information.

B

um And yes, you could have up to five or two weeks but you're going to have.

B

To have off-screen parking for those five employees, the purchases as well.

B

A new modify that requirement, so I can get permission to have that home occupation with.

B

Five employees that only have four department spaces where the ordinance has had to have.

B

Time they have to have a parking space for every employee. Assuming that's true and the.

B

Answer is no. You cannot grant a variance from their requirements with a special exception.

B

If you can meet the requirements for the special exception to get a permission, if.

B

You can't meet the requirements, the special exception or option to ask for bearings. It's.

B

Just not a progressable professionally professional. We modify the cpa, they're.

B

Supposed to be better or not like my course does, but so they can get the variance first.

B

And then apply to the exception special exception. Now they can't you can't ask for a variance from.

B

That term, oh okay, so it's yes or no! Yes, if your ordinance says the intercom parking space for.

B

Every employee and you can have five employees and you have five parking spaces. It can't vary that.

B

Requirement you can't ask for relief on that. Okay now, let's assume that you can't get the special.

B

Exception report I can always come in and ask for the parents that use has not prevented with.

B

The song, I can't satisfy the requirements for a special exception. I want a variance kind of a lot.

B

Of patients, a lot of employees- um that's just a strange parents- and that's not asking to vary that.

B

Requirement, it's just a straight marriage, so I I will I've been thinking. It's just not appropriate.

B

Ever to grant relief to change or modify special exception criteria, um special exceptions for.

B

Just like uh variances that run into the land you absolutely have just used to be. I mean in.

A

Some are committed by special extensions.

A

Wants to use its properties.

A

Special extensions.

B

I think those were variants. Okay, you don't really have the latitude to vary. The special.

B

Exceptional requirement to meet their criteria, they have to meet the criteria, to get permission.

B

They can't satisfy those criteria um within the bounds of the language of the ordinance.

B

Then all they can do is ask for permission to use that property for use. That's not permitted.

B

But the only way you do that is we're married, and so they have nice. Thank you.

B

um One of the areas that I don't think you've seen this. This is for the number of cases we.

B

Speak about cumulative impact and the kind of all started with the broad versus economy.

B

Where this person saw a barriers for a shed and then 24 and 25th setback area, and he presented.

A

Evidence that there was 16 other properties all located with the same road where they had.

B

Storage buildings within the setbacks um and this evidence demonstrated from their point of.

B

View that both schedules not alter the inside of the neighborhood, the cpa still denied, was based.

B

On their conclusion that allowed war sheds to be built on a small lot, if those setbacks.

B

Creates overcrowded in this contributing sphere of the origin, so the applicants saying a lot of.

B

No one else to have them: okay, he would take, and ultimately I think the new hampton said.

B

This is going too far, and the cumulative impact is something that we're not going to accept now.

B

The court didn't directly decide the issue, but but did affirm the decision which suggests that.

B

Cumulative impact is a relevant consideration, but the antidote case, I think, is more directly.

B

On point, so in these it's only interested healing case, this was a situation with the.

B

Fun of the building's two-story house, within this 30 percent back on this one road area.

B

Called robin's point rollins point was at base a peninsula plan sticking out into a lake in it.

B

And the question that really was bothering the cpa is whether or not you know this would create.

B

More of a little overcrowding and the zba chair during the hearing process, you know really was.

B

Concerned that it allowed this larger house to be filled is going to be have a series of other.

B

Because this is a beautiful little peninsula, everyone wants to have their really nice house, but.

B

With with water on both sides really cool, we want to have it uh so during the final decision making.

B

um For the zpa said that allowing issue to crowd the land and encourage others to do the same thing.

B

And that would degrade a natural environment and the court concluded in that case not directly, but.

B

Interventionally, it was reasonable for the zba take into account accumulated.

B

So I think both the infield cases, the fraud case suggests that that's a relevant view as.

B

You can see what's going to be happening down the road about computer impact, that is a fair.

B

um Decision-Making judgment- hey that you know you could draw the line here, even though others.

B

Have come before in that similar beliefs, so you can use precedent to decide or you can say that.

A

This will set a precedent that could have or will have negative impacts going forward, or I.

B

Think better said this is a step two fund. You know that that this is going to create more.

B

Adverse circumstances and it's reasonable at some point to throw along and there may be the enfield.

B

Cases really supporting their conclusion right and it's that kind of analysis would sort of.

A

Fold into the first prom one of the variance of spirit. Yes, absolutely it would definitely time.

A

There, because you have the ability to say whoa right, this is getting outside the boundaries of.

B

The orders is intended to create harmonious use of the land within the environment and that distance.

B

You know this particular rollins point road was, you know a beautiful little piece of land in.

B

Jutting into a sensitive environmental area, like so yeah broadcast, let's say the thick cat steps.

A

There's going to be too much burden on this particular sensitive area. Was it the second.

B

House was it the third house, I I I I don't have. I think the court probably even said of the.

B

Spaces, I recall, wasn't drawing that bright line, but it's it's a fair consideration. So.

B

Every set of circumstances because it's going to generate a need to assess individual.

B

Impacts, so you can't draw a bright line, I'm not saying the second house or in the.

B

um The parole case, you know there were 20 other houses that had the sheds the side.

B

To our setback, and now this is the 21st house: why was that sufficient basis to say that you.

B

Could give it back here, I think more likely in the foley case the the cba was concerned.

B

um We're about to open the floodgates. We need to stop the flood before it occurs, whereas the in the.

B

The broad case was the flood already happened. We're not trying to make make us make sure the.

B

Situation doesn't get worse, it either case. You know, I think the board both boards were in a sense.

B

Authorized to use the concept, actually I think that's that's the point. I would.

B

Love for these cases, what's that, I think it's fully logic isn't here, because the future impact.

A

Disruptions within the control of this okay, so if they didn't take this particular problem.

A

Is somewhat special, you know, but perhaps that speculation was somewhat supported.

B

By more sensitive environmental area that they were in as opposed to, in the hampton case, the.

B

Broad case, I don't think there's any reference to a sensitive environmental area. So it's it's.

B

Again, it comes down to the impacts that you are assessing on the particular uses and the land.

A

In question, the impact goodbye now is going for this particular price. By bringing this.

A

Barity it's my belief. The impact is now going downhill, not sure not making any determination.

B

On how steep that slope is, it could be like this. It could be a cliff, but it's going in the.

B

Wrong direction and that's why I'm saying no to that impact right now, because I see a government.

B

It's a fair way to look at the end of impact and written um a few more things and we can wrap up.

B

By going for a while now- and I don't want to keep you up all night long- um the variances have to be.

B

Exercised within two years, very special exceptions, I'd like to extend that would be caused by the cba.

B

I would just say about the dva granting good cause extension. I don't think the statutes.

B

Intend to allow you to grant and intervention at the time of the original approval. You know.

B

Had that happen, where someone said oh by the way, I'm going to need three years on this time,.

B

Most of the time we've got to come back in before the two years. I couldn't get business that I.

A

Need more time, but there is an amendment of the statute that allows you this. This exercise for two.

B

Years that only applies to variances to special exceptions granted on or after august 19 2013.

B

So the variance that might still be on the book prior to august 19, 2013 you're still out there.

B

People can still use a very good to go forever, but you can adopt an amendment to terminate.

B

Old variances, if you wanted to do that, I don't know if that's an issue for the whole business.

A

I'm just saying I think, that's a town could do that. But let's say the body, the city council, all.

B

Right that might be controversial. I don't know how only older parents are out there. That's an.

B

Issue uh and just kind of wrap up, um you know someone's agreed by your decision to file the.

B

Motion for hearings, the vba on its own, decided to never hear it. You think you've made a mistake.

B

And you want to deal with the next mistake before the 30 days are up, you can do it on your own.

B

um You, I would say normally, you know, hold a meeting to decide whether the grants are.

B

Denied again- and it's basically on the submission- normally you don't hear from the party, so you.

B

Just look at the paperwork and decide to win with brand or deny the application. If you hear the case.

B

And if you do hear the case that the hearing is granted, you may consider certain issues or we hear.

B

The entire case, so you could actually decide to say, oh the applicant, has made an argument. We were.

B

Wronged on some element of dividing the variance we'll be here the case only on that I'm not going.

B

To hear the whole page student tonight and or or you can decide we're going to hear the whole cases.

B

That's really up to you, no questions on that. If an individual I mean, how does the word suicide.

A

Will be here that wants to read here another one of it applications? How is that notice? In being.

A

Meeting in the public agenda can somebody just bring that up without that have not been noticed.

A

Well, yeah yeah! You! You because think about it for a second um well! First of all,.

B

I suppose the concern would be well. Those are both. Parties have noticed an opportunity to be heard.

B

But that that's an issue, but normally when you're deciding whether to grant or divide a hearing.

B

It's just an application. So if I was at a cba meeting, that's two weeks after we made a decision.

B

And I said you know, madam chair, I think we've made him stay. I think.

B

We did the following thing: we granted that from me before, we denied that.

A

And then we are we really we hear that case and we can do that because the 30-day appeal period has.

B

I think that would be an action that could be within the order of the board to take, and I don't.

B

Think the law would say before you do that you have to get notices either. You can support the.

B

Supporting or opposing part of it now, I suppose, there's an argument that that's a nice due process.

B

But you're only doing the things you think is better or concerned to rehear the case before a.

B

Mistake is made you're not taking away any relief. You're saying this is going to be here. The case.

B

And decide whether or not we're going to stick with the decision we've had um but think about.

B

It, I suppose, if you only have 30 days to do that, what would you do you would, let's assume you're.

B

Meeting every week and last week you made a decision experience a month. So how would you.

B

How would you implement taking that action on your own to file emotional early hearings be hard to do.

B

It within 30 days in 30 days you can, it would be a new agenda item for every cpa meeting prior to old.

A

Businesses, remember we hear us well, no, because you were before what he's saying is: is that it.

A

Would be outside yeah, you can't do it also yeah. Our meeting would be within 30 days of our last.

A

Meeting well I I suppose what you could do you could say. Let's say you will not wake up because.

B

So you contact staff and say you know at the next meeting. uh We're gonna put this on the agenda by.

B

The way, uh let's send a letter to the applicant and the maida voters or whoever they are and.

B

Say we're going to have a have a agenda item to discuss whether the board glottisone ran a motion.

B

For inherent okay and that's the only way you could really somehow do it in a timely connection,.

B

And then give the other everyone an opportunity to be heard. You might go to the meeting so maybe.

B

um But it would have to be a series you're not going to do this out of the blue. All the.

B

Time it's going to be a really serious issue and able to avoid make a mistake.

B

Before it goes to spear- and maybe you could only do it after consultant with counselors.

A

Trickier now, with the new rule that says, you have sex.

A

Back of each of your five criteria, the fact being as much of the fact that you can have.

A

And there's no way to know whether that request is influenced by the information that you're.

A

Going to be managed out of the meeting which it probably shouldn't, speak right.

B

Myself into a set of circumstances really really does make sense for the board to re-hear a case.

B

You know, I suppose you know a serious um failure or opportunity to participate. You know what, if.

B

um You know you had someone, you know, uh leave a message with peter who was the principal of.

B

Butter and they were home with coven in there and soon we went out and couldn't participate, and you.

B

Wouldn't hit with the hair anywhere, and you said no, I'm on a bottle of that. You you're not here and.

B

Then and then, and you reconsider, somebody's application is considerably wrong. Foreign.

B

You know this last minute memo which has this materially disastrous effect on an.

B

Application, you know, I suppose um you know, is that something where you really think that was.

B

Denying someone a chance to be heard correctly, I'm not sure yeah, so it wasn't reorder. Oh okay,.

B

So you know how, realistically you implement this power to on your own fan of motion before.

B

We hear it, I don't I don't. I don't have all the nuances, but it's it's it. It is.

A

Basically, yeah doing through our aid and say you know.

A

I mean say one of us says I think we really got this wrong and then we call peter and.

A

Peter can then put it on the agenda and give notice by me email or letter to the.

B

Parties right I mean not that I'm thinking of doing this, but I just try to think about it.

A

um Many cba rules will have you know the agenda composed in consultation with the chair and.

B

The chair at some discretion, what goes on the agenda? I don't know how application.

B

Right everything's in it, okay, so that's three hearings. um Would you do the motion? Were we.

B

Hearing um you know really, I guess, think of mine. That's really believes there has to be finality.

B

And zba decisions so you're really not supposed to grant them lightly, which I'm sure you don't.

B

um You know, but it's a person has demonstrated before it really committed.

B

The technical error- or you know, there's really new evidence- is not available.

A

B

Well, let's assume you can go variance and you fail to address the heart.

B

Development of bringing the parents you just missed it departing because.

B

You know, I suppose you know, um let's say um for some reason: you all decided that there.

B

Were no diminished surrounding values, that's to surrounding properties and, put you know.

B

Maybe whatever reason you know you're, blinded to some aspect of that argument, that you all.

B

Realize wait a minute. You know I think manchester next, to that beautiful craft.

A

um And uh so I think it really depends.

B

On the circumstances, I don't know that I have a right line.

A

Yeah um so beyond the rehearing, the appealed car appealing party can appeal the supreme court or.

B

Also to the house of appeals board, the record is really what the cynical non of everything.

B

Everything you do here is in the record, if it's in the record, it's the evidence that supports.

B

Your decision- and you know I spent a lot of time in the old days when I was doing these cases. I.

B

Put huge amounts of time putting the record together, I had it vaccinated organized I'm.

B

Sure your staff does that thing here, because and when I was submitted I I would make sure I would.

B

Underline the stuff, I wanted the judge to look at it and I would make sure that babies would.

B

Pages, it was on because my job was to show what's happening with evidence. The record of supporting.

B

The voice decision I never had to approve, but the cva did it was correct. I only had to show.

B

What they did, what they did was based on evidence in the record. That's that's the key thing also.

B

I think, when you're dealing with these appeals, the last thing I want to say, don't know if you.

B

Had access this, but there is, this is only word of adjustment handbook, which is available from.

B

Bea, uh and so you can download it, and I have that I like that stock and I often have to refer to it.

B

You know it's a digital document, so it's easy to search and it's really really tremors guide.

B

For being a member of the cba, the other thing which I'm sure I don't know, if you all have.

B

It yeah this, you know it's and again intentions of the cases for all the statutes. Those are all.

B

Right so with that, I'm overstepped my enrollment, but many people, everybody else's phone number.

B

A

Okay, well good.

B

um You know uh you know we are available, not the only questions.

A

A

Do you want these messages.