City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Cemetery Committee, 6 Jan 2022

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From YouTube: 1.6.2022 Mayor's Blue Ribbon Cemetery Committee

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1.6.2022 Mayor's Blue Ribbon Cemetery Committee

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Question maybe we should announce that this is not an official meeting. Do not have a.

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Forum as of this minute, so we are going to just discuss various subjects at this point in time.

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Especially because we have peter brits here, so we want to utilize his knowledge at this point.

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You know that's official okay. My question is as to the decision why that noise monitoring tower was.

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Placed at the entrance of the north cemetery, so my understanding is there's been a lot of concern.

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About the trains titling down on that part of the tracks and they've been asking, and I think it's.

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It's noise. It's also, I think, particularly trying to get a sense of any that they can detect there.

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And whether it needs standards, so that's my best guess I don't know for sure no one's knowing the.

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Locations all around: why did they have to put it right next to the entrance.

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It's obviously someone that doesn't know that you don't put something like that in a historic place.

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It may not be permanent, though no it isn't permanent. It's just. I don't know how long it's.

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Going to be there for, but it's like some other place, it just feels like the place.

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Would you have put that in the south cemetery at the entrance there next to them.

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Next to the important race, so the question is: does it also measure vibrations which might be.

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A good thing to measure near the cemetery: are they going to put it towards the back of the cemetery.

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That's true: they could have put it on the other side of the cemetery where there's nothing there.

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It's like a portion of land between cemetery and the railroad tracks. I'm gonna put it in there. So.

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What if they put it right there, I mean right next to the entrance and they have the mark.

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Can I give you a call in a couple days or give me my number peter and.

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If you could find out for us sure just I mean you, don't have to have the great details.

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But yeah, no, I can look into it. I don't have the details right now, so thank you. I'm incredible.

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Carrie we're not having an official yeah so, but we can still discuss things. We just can't.

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Vote on approving minutes or what have you so I guess we don't have to do. Roll call.

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um So peter um one of the major concerns.

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I don't know if you're aware we've divided our project into.

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11 different categories and environmental was one of them that came up and um probably in this area,.

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The biggest concern, I thought not only would be the one especially down at union and north.

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Cemeteries, where that retaining wall was falling apart and um the discussion had come up also that.

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If we pay to get that fixed, then what kind of plantings and things like that we could do to help.

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Stop the erosion, but also if there were some way, I don't think anybody's building close to there.

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I'm not sure I don't know all the plans that we might wrap in some of that, not necessarily.

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Fixing the wall but plantings of grass or that sort of thing or if there's a plan already for all.

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That development that they're talking about around upon who's going to safeguard you know the erosion.

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At that point in time, yeah, so that I can answer the piece about the vegetation around the pond.

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In terms of development and the city um there's been different plans, the city has a pretty evolved.

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Plan, that's gotten funding from the state to do a living shoreline allowing the shoreline. That's.

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Sort of behind threes art space all the way towards the bridge until you get to the rain.

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It's not coming back in, it doesn't come all the way to the bridge. It goes it's kind of around the.

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Corner um flying through this art space around the corner, so it'll be a city park on the upper part.

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And it's all part of the north hill pond green lane, which is a connection between bartlett street.

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And market street, but in vision, connection between market street and garland street and.

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So it's basically a trail bike type trail that will go all along the shoreline of norfolk. Pond.

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That will come across maplewood into this that area and then wrap around behind the pond up to.

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Market street, so it would be a connection from all the way down there for pedestrians in the downtown.

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Across town through that part of town, um the living shoreline piece has some climate.

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Change resilience benefits to it, because it's building in um natural systems that have kind of.

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Been lost through the development of the shoreline and erosion that's going on, and so it's putting.

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Salt marsh and some mussel beds, and then some upland things so that, in effect, the vegetation.

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Protects the shoreline instead of like a hard sea wall or something like that, and so they.

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Call it living so it can actually move with sea level rise and it's meant to kind of adapt to sea.

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Level rise, so it's meant to be more resilient than like a sea wall which is another solution.

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That can be used and we can talk about that in our cemetery and I'll show you some information.

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So I'm not so here's the the causeway! You know the um cemetery is here: you're going across causeway.

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If the walkway is going to encircle, it's going to go across the causeway and all down and around and.

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Back to the causeway, so the plan includes the area behind where the indian fingers used to be.

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Up to the bridge, it doesn't include the southern south side of that bridge right there, but it comes.

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Through the rallier to maplewood, then it goes on the road, and then we go just a little bit of.

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Maple wood and then go across and then behind that part of the pond all the way up to market.

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And on the southern part of the knuckle pond on the inside of grand state, minerals and then.

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Behind all of any development that happens like that, one of my apartment or richie.

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London all the way down to harvard so, oh so it will go down on that side right on top.

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The whole thing has different parts of it: have current uh salt, marsh restoration or living.

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Shoreline type projects already in some places and some would probably need some more work.

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But the area at the north cemetery is a little different. They have a.

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Retaining wall there and there's private properties beyond that.

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That weren't included, mainly because of the you, know unknown nature of that area.

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And it seemed like there was a good connection along maplewood, where they have a plan for a.

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Better pedestrian, like um improvement, a lot of maple which hasn't been put in that would be.

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Part of the long term will that be porous so that you're not shifting water. The trail is envisioned.

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So this is the back wall of the cemetery and going down where the railroad tracks are.

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What kind of development is going down that side? It's further down right, not right! Now, there's the.

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um Granite state mineral salt pile there as you go down right, yep, there's a big salt.

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Pile there and the railroad has a big sort yard, so they have several sidings.

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Next to the main rail line, cars can stack and be stored there, because it's a rail yard.

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And then, once you get a little ways down, basically ritchie lumber and the.

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uh Brewing rhythm, great rhythm, brewing and the dog uh dog walker place or dog cat body day care place.

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That's that's, has a development project that's been approved, um it's contested and someone's.

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Taken it to court, but it's 105 part where it's known as and so that has some residential and.

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Some parking and um that'll that would go in on the water side of that trail.

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So the trail would go on because there's already sort of a trail down in there. There is, but it's.

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Kind of private until you get to richie lumber and that's just the driveway, so it would be.

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Improvements all along, but not all of them, are completed. Yet it's more a vision at this point.

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So, where the cemetery lights up to the railroad, that's.

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I mean that's fine, but what pollution standards do they have? The railroad.

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For any kind of preventative measures, anything that comes out of the cars or off the cars or.

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Whatever they bring in with them, is there anything right now or is that just a yeah they do they.

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Have to follow the same, you know federal laws, other people follow so the clean water act and.

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uh National solutions are permits for big developments, and things like that.

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There's not a lot of offloading or unloading that happens at that location. It's more just.

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Really lighting trains- and things like that, so I live right here and um a lot of us.

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Have complaints about they? I don't think they have the trains, idling yeah in the pollution.

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And I don't think there's a solution to that. I don't think there's an.

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Answer yet, but before you came in maybe um I'm sorry, so it was asking about a monitoring.

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Tower that was there, and I think that was put in to try to monitor the noise.

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Right near the entrance yeah on our cemetery, it's right! Next to the history board, you can't miss it.

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The big blue history board yeah, that's right right next to it, yeah.

B

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Yeah, um so I believe the department of environmental services chose the.

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Locations I can find out um jane farini who's been in the legal department. Who's been kind of.

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Coordinating on that uh railroad piece, let me see she was in her office five minutes ago. So.

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I will call up and see if she can come down. So if you have questions about that specific issue.

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And the challenge, of course, with the railroad, uh a lot of um we have limited authority as a local.

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Government- and that is part of our challenge so yeah you know they have to follow certain.

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Federal rules, but we actually have very little, unfortunately, global control on a lot of issues.

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Let me see if jane can at least give them on city property next to the entrance is that.

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City property they're on their own they're on their own property. Next to the entrance.

B

Right, well I mean, I don't know about the tower, that's what we've got so the tower.

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May be on city property, that entrance is grand state, minerals and then there's a nurse.

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um I I don't think the railroad functioning over there impacts the cemetery.

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Per se or or the wall, it's going to be erosion from the title. So.

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So was that ever assessed? Do you know that you know for future plans like yeah with everything.

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Else they're doing what they might just do right there in terms of the cemetery and right.

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Yeah, that's what I thought you guys want a little background on and then I can talk specifically.

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About a couple places um but yeah, I can talk about what the city has done in terms of sea level rise.

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And climate change it started in 2013 completion of a report. We call it the coastal resilience.

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Initiative so I did ours. Unfortunately, our systems are down our activities, but.

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There's a link on the city's website. If you decide coastal resilience initiative to the.

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Report that was done and that report was really a first step at understanding the impacts, the.

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City was going to see from postal flooding from other climate change impacts and from.

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Heavy rainfall events and things like that and looking at sea level rise over over a longer.

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Term and we map the whole city to the shoreline anyway, the city and the different scenarios based.

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On international channel and climate change's, projections for sea level rise over the between.

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Now and 2100 and basically the highest scenario, was two feet of sea level rise by 2050 and six.

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Feet by 2100, and so we use that information to map out what areas would be impacted and where we'd.

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See problems and issues um looking most closely at that coastal flooding piece. So there's both.

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The sea level rise piece, which is which is sort of ongoing and will get worse every on a daily basis.

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But the other big piece is the coastal storm surge, and so, as we see more severe storms.

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Even if, even if it's not a change in the past, a severe storm on the coast will have a storm.

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Surge component to it, so the water that um the storm blowing offshore basically pushes the water.

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Closer to the shore and mounds, it up, so you have higher tide levels on a coastal storm surge.

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Situation- and so they accounted for that as a 100-year storm and had a number for 100 years.

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Storm will be, and then added the sea level rise to that and then mapped those different.

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Elevations, based on that and looked at what areas are impacted, and so the one of the big results.

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Of that study, probably at least one result pertinent to what you guys are looking at is.

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That our historic districts are probably the most impacted in terms of the people where people live.

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In terms of sea level rise and coastal flooding, because it's a historic city, that's where the.

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Downtown was built a lot of the building took place on film and when they filled old land.

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Or when they built it just like in boston and a lot of coastal cities, they only filled it enough.

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So they could do commerce and build houses that didn't get flooded, so it was at the sea level.

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Then so it wasn't extra feet above so those areas are more vulnerable. The fill material isn't as.

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Isn't as strong and water can move through it things like that, so it's a more vulnerable area.

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So we determine from that study that we need to look closer at historic history.

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So we did a second study with some funding for the park service that came out of hurricane sandy and.

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It was intended to look at future disasters and things like that to avoid things like hurricane.

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Sandy having a bigger impact, and so we got funding to look at the historic district, we looked at the.

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Areas and historic districts that are the most vulnerable uh diff on a bunch of different levels.

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But um looking at historic character, looking at sites and structures and came up with some, the.

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Idea was to see not only where we were vulnerable but to try to give people a sense of what they.

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Could do so we came up with adaptation, strategies or ways that people could fortify either if it's.

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A residence to afford it by the residence or if it's a business, supported by the business or if.

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It's a site how to protect the site, and so um that report the historical vulnerability assessment is.

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Also available online, it goes into all that detail. It has a lot of maps and information.

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That you can pull up on the website look at, but I printed out a couple sections because.

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There's two areas that you guys are most interested that were looked at specifically.

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It's just by not by chance, but because they're vulnerable, these cemeteries. um The point the.

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North, the north cemetery, which is called the north milpon and union cemetery in the report, because.

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They they never corrected the typo that we told them about. We had an engineering company out of.

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Maine gti do this report and we looked at adaptation strategies that could be used.

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At the north, north cemetery and union cemeteries and at the point of graves burial ground and I'm.

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Not giving it to you to read through now, you can take it home and read it, but I can. I can.

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A scenario of how you can try to make these areas more resilient to protect them and.

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So you can see kind of how the report was structured in this adaptation strategy.

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They would identify a site or a location and then they'd come up with.

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They give a little background and they come up with different options and looking first at.

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The point of graves they looked at fortifying the cemetery or accommodating basically accommodating.

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Means letting the water come in, and so um these options are kind of got, there's a little detail.

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In here about how you could do that, a little bit about what the class would be, if you were.

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To raise that small wall, that's in there about what that would mean, and then what would happen.

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If you just accommodated the water and let it come in, and so on that I just want to talk a little bit.

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About that point, one of the things we found in looking at the vulnerability is, as I was talking.

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A lot of this area is built on fill, and so we did this study. We realized that there's actually.

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It's not just water coming up and over the land, but it's water making its way through the ground.

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Into people's basements into areas that you don't necessarily see it on the surface, but it's coming.

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In so strawberry bank, looked at that really closely they've done a lot of work with that.

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In this exhibit they have, if you guys have seen them, exhibit on sea level rise. They have a video.

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That shows sea level sea level. Sorry tidewater is coming into a basement of a house over a.

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King time and how that impacts it, we had a intern. While we were doing our study go out around in.

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That store district and interview people and ask them about what they've seen for impacts.

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And they've seen significant impacts. People have basement flooding, impacts that seem to be tidal.

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Related but it's pretty it's pretty early stages. We don't have a lot of information. There's some.

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Researchers at unh that have been studying it and I've seen impacts as far as two miles inland.

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Groundwater changes and groundwater flooding, so that's going to have to be another component of.

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This so just building a sea wall isn't always the only option, but it is an option. We're looking at.

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And we're looking at it as well for prescott park, and so it's really for the short term.

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It's something you probably have to do to protect your sites in the short term, but you also have to.

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Have that long term vision of how you're going to protect it in the long term? We can't just pick up.

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And move everything right away, but eventually there might be sites that have to be moved or.

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Changed in a different way or figured out a way to accommodate this storm, water or sea water.

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So the fortify option is to build this seawall seawall or taller wall around the point of graves.

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We've got an option in our prescott park, master plan, which also is on the website. You can look at.

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um To build a sea wall, the idea is, it would basically be a sea wall around where the.

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Most active parts of prescott park is so, if you know where the.

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Ornamental gardens are that area's up a little higher than where the sheep warehouse is, and the.

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Idea would be to bring up an area where the sheep warehouse is up to a similar.

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Level and water street the street that goes in between also up and raise those grades, so that.

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We can protect those areas, bring them up, but also have an area in there where water came in would.

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Have a low point, all loaded, so it was collecting water and so those those are some of the things.

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That have been looked at and that will be prescott. Parker, probably were the first ones to actually.

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Move ahead, um but in terms of the cemeteries the other class was on the north cemetery and the.

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Median cemetery that has a sea wall that goes along the shore and this study looked at it and.

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Said you know you, could you could fortify that sea wall but you'd have to wrap it up around the sides.

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A little bit to protect it from sea level rise in the short term, but at a certain point, the water.

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Is going to come from the other side of the road as well, because you have the other side of maple.

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Wood water is going to make its way up there, and so it looks at both of those up those conditions.

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And talks about it and it's it's sort of a first step at how we can look at becoming more resilient.

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To these impacts as we go forward, so I just wanted to give you guys the information, so you can have.

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It and look at it, but also I'd, encourage you to go to the website and take a look more of these.

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Reports and try to get an understanding of it and you know over the over the years. I think the.

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Idea would be to look for funding both from the city and from grad programs to implement some of.

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These actions, which we'll have a time frame for them, going forward how long they'll be protected.

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But at least it'll be a step step you're in the right place. James. I don't have my mask.

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I just have a quick question um so on the um right side of maplewood you're talking about.

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um You know planted up lands and all that sort of stuff.

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So there's no plan for a sea wall there, or is that going to be right now, there's not, but that.

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It is discussed a little bit here. We could put a sea wall along fortify, the wall. That's there.

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Along maplewood, but I think you'd have to almost completely wrap the cemetery.

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With the wall to really protect each other, and would you could be putting going down deeper.

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Well, that's the question: would you need to, I think, that's the work that hasn't really been looked at.

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What's the groundwater impact of this did new york city look at this for lower manhattan? I think they.

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Have an issue there about sea level, rising that would flood most of wall street eventually and.

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Most of their historic portions of the city- and I don't know what they decided or what they looked.

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But a big circular protection program, really it wasn't just sea walls, it was sea walls. It was some.

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Letting water come in certain places, it was firms and park areas and things like that.

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But it was looking holistically at the whole lab in manhattan and how they protect those narratives.

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And that's what some other cities are trying to do and we'll need to do you know it depends how far.

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Out you're looking, you might be able to protect for a couple feet in a certain way and then, when.

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It gets higher, you might have to do different things, but I think it's a stepwise process.

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But just no, this is really good information and it's all into public works right. This is all.

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You'll find the reports in the planning department on the planning department page.

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But if you just type in coastal resilience, initiative or historic district vulnerability, assessment run on the main page and search engines.

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Or contact me, okay,.

B

On this page in the second page, the second picture shows this is 2.5 feet.

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But it would look like 45 feet. Sea level rise right during the cane tide.

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Yeah exactly so, this is a really high tide, plus 2.5 feet of sea level rise.

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So how much further than it goes today, where it wouldn't come up on the shore.

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With 2.5 feet of sea level rise you're going to have water going in when it doesn't open.

B

Is that maybe pleasant street? It looks like it goes all the way through the strawberry bank.

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Comes up a little bit.

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Mechanic street is totally on the water yeah.

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Price cuts park is totally on the water point of graves is going to be at least.

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Two-Thirds of the way underwater someone is like you're talking about more important.

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Property that is going to be underwater cemeteries more than just right, but it is.

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My point is: if you're going to have all of these people along this property being flooded.

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I mean as much as I like to have a historic property like that preserved.

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I would want to give priority to the people that are. These are major property values that you're.

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Talking about oh yeah, major property impact, these are the tough questions, and so it's like.

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I don't know what it, what did you do with creating a wall? What kind of a.

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Wall did you have to create in order to be able to prevent that? Well in terms of the.

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Cemetery, it talks a little bit about it, but in terms of there's other options. First.

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Whole neighborhoods and things like that you can raise the whole neighborhood or.

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Either relocate it or put things on islands that are higher up structurally, but these are.

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Going to be the tough questions that we have to address and part of the reason we're doing this.

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To get these studies is to give people a sense of what options there are. So these adaptation.

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Strategies, weren't meant to be here's everything we should do, but there are, there are meant to be.

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Examples of different scenarios that could happen and how you could protect yourself at.

B

Least, you know some of this: all of the downtown would be gone. uh The historic part of downtown.

A

A

Well, just my personal observation is um now that we have this and we know that things have.

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Been considered about this, that you know, puts a whole different spin on where we prioritize.

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Something like this I mean. uh Obviously our first um projects would be to clean up the.

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Graves straighten them up and things like that, but to keep this fun down the list, knowing that this.

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Is really a much larger instead of just fixing a wall and spending 40 grand or what have you should.

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You know, let's decide, what's going to happen 50 years from now, if we spend 40 here, you know.

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Balance out, which, which thing would be the best approach and also you know, new information comes.

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Along too, I don't know, if anybody is there someplace, where they've done the study or.

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The data on the study of how much things have changed in the last 50 years in the river there is.

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There is, and that's the thing I think part of the reason it's not grabbing people's attention is the.

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Change is accelerating so it's they've. They can track it now. They can see some change, but really.

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If you look at all the curves, your ceiling rides, they they start slowly and then they rapidly.

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Increase so I think, as things increase, people pay more attention to it as great effects continue.

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And then, as big storms, so hurricane sandy got a lot of people. That's the reason they built.

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That big wall around want to build that big wall around new york city right is because they had a.

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13-Foot storm surge. We had a 13-foot storm surge here. That would be a lot of water coming city.

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Greater than this, so it's it's really just about the potential and raising awareness. It's not.

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Taking that next step to some degree it's starting to take the next step, so it's a process and.

C

Well, we don't have a ton of time. We have a little bit of time.

A

I'm sorry historically have they um noted any type of super flooding. That's happened in this area. You.

C

So that seems to be the biggest indicator. The national weather service is working on better.

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Tools to predict storm surges, because storm surges are really where you have.

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An issue in a king tie and a storm surge. You could have that of flooding, pretty 2.5.

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So that's where that's where the study is important and useful. You know we'll have to.

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Revisit these numbers as the projections change, but it's really a way to start to.

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Understand where you're going to see impacts- and certainly these two sites are are on the list.

A

Again, I think it's a great overview of how to prioritize the walls, particularly great, so.

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My does anybody have any other questions on. I have a question. Yes, oh thank you. um So when you.

E

Consider you know the north cemetery and point of graves and those are places that are most visible.

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And that's also where visitors you know would tend to go because they are so visible. Excuse me, but.

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Peter I also visited um south to south street cemeteries and when you go to the back, it goes.

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All the way the newer parts go all the way down to the water uh there's no natural barrier. There.

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And because it's less visible, um it may not get the attention. I I wonder if you think that.

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um You know in our deliberations, we should consider it um or if the city has any thoughts.

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About that particular cemetery, as opposed to the ones we've been talking about.

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um Ava um I just wanted to um let you know that that portion that you're talking about.

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Is private, it's a privacy. Oh, it is oh okay and that's one of the things on the list about doing.

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Subcommittees, there's so much misinformation in the world um about our cemeteries here.

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In portsmouth, I spent a few days or nights looking at stuff and any of these grave sites.

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Including they just lump it all together, yeah they do and when I went and looked at mark for.

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Markers you know which cemetery is which it isn't always clear. um So if there was a storm surge.

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That that private area would be wiped out, but would that affect some of the ones.

E

Something that the city needs to be concerned about. No, that was being mr griffin down here.

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Who's on our committee, who owns two of those cemeteries or his family, does okay and then the.

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Other one is owned by um north the unitarian church right. um There are actually five grave.

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Sites um in there right so and it's not that we should dismiss it, but certainly uh you know in.

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The future collaboration between organizations is certainly a possibility. Yeah, especially.

A

With all the history, that's here in this area, so and and what about strawberry bank aren't they.

E

Do you know exactly what it is that they are doing they they're concerned about the water issue also.

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And um just as a point of information when I first moved to portsmouth, I.

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Rented at strawberry bank, um when they first began to open up the tops of the buildings for rentals.

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And the building that I was in whenever there was any kind of rain, just filled up with water.

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Enormously so they've added they've had to do.

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um Quite a bit of work on some of the buildings they've had to do redo, basements elevate them.

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Elevate some buildings um take out brick chimneys that were cooked kitchens. I guess in the basement.

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Because the mortar on the brick was was deteriorating because of the salt water.

C

Intrusion in the basement and the moisture um so they're actively working on it and they're.

C

Trying to come up with ways to educate the public as well like this exhibit.

C

But it's going to be an ongoing issue for them and they're going to keep watching it. But.

C

They're in a tough spot, because that whole puddle dock area is still.

C

It's still a lot of water goes through the ground easily there, and so that's one of the things you.

C

Know looking at the future things the city is going to do, the city wants to look specifically.

C

At where groundwater is going to impact our sewer and water infrastructure, that's underground, so we.

C

Can prioritize what should be improved first, you know if tides come into a sewer line.

C

um You know what's good about keeping the sewage from getting into the ground, but the water around.

C

The pipe will get into the pipe and then we have to treat it at a treatment plant, and so it becomes.

C

An expense that we don't want to spend so knowing, where those vulnerable areas are first gives us.

C

You know we can prioritize replacing those lines first and things like that right, so I mean the.

A

Cemetery committee, I mean we're only a tiny part of everything. That's gonna. You know people.

A

Are forecasting for the future, but it's really nice to know. You know there are plans out there.

A

And who we can dovetail with in the future, not necessarily past this group, but whoever you know.

A

Keep us in the loop or keep in the loop with them so that you know we know. What's going on and.

A

Work as a team, as opposed to individual groups trying to solve a problem.

A

Because you change one thing in land, you change everything. So it's not just as simple as that.

C

Well, that's part of why it's identified in this study and it'll, be, you know, looked.

C

At and potentially identified for right for these adaptation strategies of city properties.

C

And that's why I left the name of the person who does underwater archaeology.

A

Adjusting yeah, I mean that's good information.

C

Strategy areas, but I I was thinking of that too, when I was thinking about talking to you.

C

Guys because it does have it's right on the south hill pond, it does have a little bit.

C

Of a slope to it, I think right it does a little bit better than these two, maybe in.

C

Terms of but it's not not much it's a wetland, though I mean most of the time.

A

I think even the summer when I was down in there, it still had some squish to it. So well.

C

And that's another thing that we didn't really talk about. Is some of these strategies to protect.

C

Places from sea water end up trapping storm water, so rain water can't get like the. So, if you get on.

C

Water street, on that little street in between prescott park and the rats color, if you notice.

C

When the tide's coming in on those sites, it comes in this the storm drain. First, because.

C

There's no gate to stop the water, so once you put a gate on that flapper or whatever you want.

C

To call it a one-way valve, so seawater can't come in then, um when the rain comes, it can't.

C

Necessarily get out because it's it's blood, it's held it's healthy, so you could be trapping water.

C

You know upstream some of these strategies, so you've got to be careful that you're. You know.

C

Whether you have to put pumps in or what you're going to end up doing, but it's going to be a it's.

C

Going to be a lot of engineering, so that means that the water like in back of the elk sludge.

B

If you're going one way valve there, so the water down the stream from there on the creek will go up.

C

uh Yeah, I guess it could, but I don't think they can stop cycling.

C

I was looking for this on the property itself. Well,.

C

Yeah yeah, those are the kind of things you to look at. What's the what's, the secondary impact.

C

Of these adaptation strategies that you want to prevent problems, you don't want to cause a problem.

B

It's just like that particular location. I mean you live. You guys lived here all your life as long as.

B

I live here that that area has been flooded. You know it's almost like normal, but brooks killer.

B

Yeah, you know, I think the other point that hasn't come up isn't discussed very often but um say.

A

Point of grades, if we really thought not us, but going forward in the public, I mean how much money.

A

Do you put into it when the possibility that there are actually any human remains still there? It's.

A

Simply still headstones, um I mean that's another thing you gotta take into like. Do you move all the.

A

Headstones and move you know if there are some confidence remaining, that sort of thing to move.

A

The headstones and not lose the physical history. You know there are a lot of other things that are.

A

Out there, but I don't think that's anything that as a group here that we would be faced with, but.

A

Certainly, it does make a difference, how much money you invest in something and cleaning.

A

Headstones is not I mean, while it costs the money, it's got. You know 40, 000 or 50 000 to repair.

A

Or put in a retaining wall and all those kinds of things, so just food for thought like that.

B

So is there consideration to not allowing any more construction on wetland buffer and wetlands.

B

Especially near these cemeteries that are at risk to keep that whole natural absorption and dipping.

C

Well, it's a good point: the uh the state has included and the so this city and the state both.

C

Have weapons requirements, and so the cities um has sort of a process to go through to show that.

C

You're not going to create a further impact, it's more a little more subjective. Maybe the state has.

C

Required a specific sea level rise analysis almost on every project. You have to go through to show.

C

What the impact from sea level rise will be on that project. So what's the resilience of.

C

The property that sea level rise is part of the analysis, and so those are things that.

B

Are together they're getting put into the permit process, so the percentage of permission to build.

B

On wetland wetland buffers in portsmouth, what is the percentage of denials versus.

C

I don't think I can answer that because it's not it's the pretty gray area rulers.

C

They come to a point where they get approved or they.

C

Reduce their impacts or they get denied, but I don't think there's.

B

Look at them all.

B

That was going to build on wetlands buffers or wetlands there's uh michigan cleaners. It's.

C

Rain's avenue project they have a, they have some work in the buffer, but they also have a lot of.

C

It's all this balancing so up to the planning board and conservation.

C

To decide whether they need that reduction.

D

Yep and if I could just follow up on that, I think the reason why it's very hard for.

D

Peter to kind of pick that apart is because it is very site specific. So, for example, we have.

D

Some sites that, within that buffer 100 feet to the wetland coming to the water, you might have.

D

If you will all green, so it's grass or it's vegetated state, so you can go any number of places.

D

You know a lot of water around portsmouth, so this comes up a lot, and so some people might want to.

D

Build a bigger house- and they have you know they back up to a water body or they have islands.

D

And so what they have is mostly vegetation in the back, then you've got our more compact downtown.

D

And you might have a mix so within the hundred foot wetland bubbler, you have maybe a little strip.

D

Of 20 or 30 feet left, you know where there's some vegetation, maybe not great, but there's something.

D

And then you may have developed portion, you may have old parking lot or an existing footprint of.

D

A building, and so that is kind of a challenge. When you look at these things, you really have to look.

D

Piece by piece, because sometimes what happens? I've had this conversation any number of times.

D

On things not related to the north york pond, we'll just take out the hot stuff and what you'll find.

D

Is someone comes in with a redevelopment project and they'll say, look, you know we're going to.

D

Get rid of you know how many you know, 1200 square feet of some kind of pavement somewhere.

D

And kind of restore an area- that's in you know close to more. You know better wetlands, but we.

D

Want to impact 20 feet over here, because that's going to allow us a radius for a truck to turn.

D

So, that's why it's very specific. Is it area, that's already, not green, and so what you're doing is.

D

Actually you're still impacting the buffer. So if you've got someone who wants to redevelop.

D

A property and right now, 80 percent. You know 80 feet out of 20 feet. Buffer is already pavement.

D

The question is: where do you do you make them, go all the way back.

D

You know if they're gonna redevelopment and leave a whole hundred foot or.

D

Is there some trading because you want to call the walkway along the area, but.

D

It varies a lot depending on the property, because it depends, what does it already look like and it.

C

Have a project in the end reduce the impact. So, even though,.

C

They might have an impact in the buffer from the project. The overall project reduces the.

C

Impacts that were there before they propose their project, so that's sort of the goal. They look for.

B

It just doesn't seem that way. Coming from other areas, it were near the water where it was just.

B

Forbidden to build on the wetlands and the wetland buffers who've come up here and after.

B

20 or 30 years have not seen too many denials of construction on wetland buffers or wetlands.

B

So I I guess that was maybe curious, yeah an efficient observation. I just wasn't quite.

C

Sure I think some places might be a little more strict, but I think if you look at, if you really.

C

Look drilled down and looked at those permanent applications. You might find similarities they're.

A

If no one else has a question, I have a question about air pollution and aspring. How that, if you.

A

Guys follow that um and it may not, you wouldn't have the information you know for what it has on.

A

Cemeteries, I know that it's certainly an impact. I was just curious too, because we've had so many.

A

Summers now where, if you're out to the out of the shoals, I mean we're under those warnings of.

A

Bad air or, however, that they do it so they're more and more frequent at this point in time,.

A

But the city's not looking into any, not for headstones, I'm just talking about the air.

A

Quality, so air quality. um The epa regulates these non-attainment areas, so areas that have.

C

Such high particular matter that the area is in non-attainment and they have too much pollution.

C

Basically, it's interesting because I've worked here about 20 years and the first few years I.

C

Worked here, there was a lot of days where they, the whole seacoast, was in entertainment. It actually.

C

Seems like it's gotten better and I think a lot of that has pollution control measures on vehicles.

C

And things like that and smoke stacks and things, but I'm not an expert in it. It's really.

C

Sort of a it's an important topic, especially for tombstones. I know that for sure is reducing that.

A

For heavy you know health issues, so the state's the only one that monitors the air, the epa.

A

Let's just curse: no, no you're, absolutely right because I've we lived through. You know trying to.

A

Get the pollution stopped coming from the midwest, because you were on the downside of that. So.

A

Does anybody else have any questions for either or.

D

I don't know suzanne, did you get an answer about that? I did. I did so. There are three air monitors.

D

um There are three air monitors, so the one, as you know near the entrance to the north cemetery, the.

D

Second, one is at the little remix electric company garage there in the back, and then they have.

D

A baseline one at the south middle playground so that you have uh you know, what's normal for.

D

Portsmouth, so to speak, and these were um these locations were determined by the department of.

D

Environmental services and they looked at the prevailing winds, among other things, so that's.

D

Why you see one of them at the north cemetery um and there is a live link called at purpleair.com.

D

Which allows you to actually look at the readings in real time.

D

um And there apparently was in one of the city newsletters.

D

You know that that link that you might be able to google it and find it or we can distribute it.

D

Once our emails more stable, like if we distribute the link.

D

um And the error monitoring will take place until the end of february.

D

And I'm sure there'll be analysis of the data. Yes, we'll be collecting the data, but.

D

You know there is some real-time data there.

D

Well, we could cover all kinds of things like how many, how many times do we have an earthquake, go through poisons.

A

No I'm just talking about environmental impacts.

B

Like this, um a really helpful context, but not that useful is that, is that how you're seeing.

B

I mean it's like other than maybe making some funding decisions. Really we should be talking.

B

More in your church stuff right! Well, yes, I mean I'm glad, because the walls were on part of our you.

A

Know to do this type thing: yeah yeah! No! I perceive um I mean like the air quality and what have you.

A

um That might make a difference on what kind of product we use. Michael, isn't there even a.

A

New one out, that's supposed to leave some sort of protective coat. Somebody was telling me about that.

B

I've only researched the one that I'm using and you use the detail. It depends on the type of stone.

B

So some products are really good on certain types of stones, but there they will cause.

B

Other types of stones to deteriorate, I think it's a very stone construction.

B

Specific issue, if you can use certain things on slate and certain things on granite and certain.

B

Things on marvel, but they're, not all I don't think, there's one. That's all inclusive that I've seen.

B

I think it's very specific. I think there have been cemeteries that have used cleaning or preservation.

B

Materials that have, after maybe five or ten years, caused the stone to deteriorate more than it might.

B

Have otherwise, I think it's one of those evolving things, something that worked five or ten years ago.

B

May or may not work right is it d2 biological yeah? But if you have that specific information.

A

Yeah, because my impression and from um mr cipher's, who at the cemetery like his d2, is supposed to be.

A

um Like the really great new product, that's out here and doesn't cause any long-term damage and if.

A

You once you've cleaned your stones and um you're good for a couple years that you should go back.

A

Back and just spray right, you shouldn't have to be cleaning anything but to sort of whatever the.

A

Chemical or the chemistry is between what happens, to the stone and on the stones and this product.

A

Whether that particular stone wicks moisture up underneath whatever's, preserving the nails.

A

Right right, no, that um those are all really valid points and I think you're right carrie, that.

A

I'm hoping next time since this wasn't a forum that next time I'm willing that the weather is.

A

Good and it's not after the holidays- um and I also think part of it was we were all a little.

A

I know it, you know if we were going to be speed, permanent.

A

So now we are permanent, we can actually, you know, put up the pedal to the metal and.

B

Yeah, do we have to reapply? Yes, that's what I was just gonna introduce.

A

Thank you and we can always contact you about any environment.

A

Certainly, of course, yep. Okay, all right all right, always good to.

D

So um so, as you know, in december the city council did establish a permanent cemetery.

D

However, there are no official appointments to that cemetery committee, yet because it is a process.

D

So what uh mayor mccarran agreed to do was to basically create you as a mayor's blue ribbon.

D

Cemetery committee, as you were before the creation of the permanent committee.

D

So that you could have this meeting and feel like you could have continuity until.

D

The formal appointment process for the permanent committee could take place.

D

So that that's why it was unnecessary for you to do an application to.

D

You know continue on as the mayor's blue ribbon committee. He worked with the clerk's office to.

D

Say yep? That committee continues so that has happened to tie us over, and so we can fully.

D

Step up, if you will with members um the permanent committee. So if you are interested.

D

In being on the permanent committee, then do file the application to be on the permanent committee.

D

Because, as you know, we were talking about, there were some members of the you know.

C

Ribbon committee, who have been more active than others, and so this is not a bad time to say: okay.

D

Are we ready, you know who really wants to be part of the permanent committee, so um so I would say.

D

What's our website and everything is probably up and running, um we're getting closer and closer now.

D

um Yeah just go online if you haven't already now on the city clerks section and you can just fill.

D

Out the application indicate you want to be part of the cemetery committee and then we'll just get.

D

You um moving through the process, so our first city council meeting is on january 24th and so.

D

What typically happens is the mayor will list his proposed appointments for the first meeting.

D

And then, at the next meeting, the city council votes on. So if you can get your applications in.

D

You know next week sometime, we can get them all. The mayor can review them all list them actually.

D

No, if you did it last month, that's fine yep, so you're going to send something out once.

B

Your website is up with that information to us. We could do the format sure we'll send.

B

You the link and you can go right on and tell you where it is okay. I will do that. Seventh.

D

Two y and I'll give you the the dates where we generally like that, because we put the.

D

Agenda together, obviously the week before the meeting so I'll give you the deadline to.

D

Stop it so we can get you on the list and make sure.

B

We're here so, meanwhile, should carrie, and I follow up on this historic registry.

B

Thing on who might be an amenable consultant and to see me with whoever it is.

A

As I said, and I think I talked to you- I mean I know we need the city's help, but I envision that.

A

um You know we'll try to fill out most of the paperwork that we need to do and then present it.

A

To you guys to have it reviewed so or if we need the information we know we can get it from you.

B

So are we looking mostly at the new hampshire historic registry, the federal historic registry.

A

I I think um we start out with just the um see how complicated it is to do the new hampshire.

A

The new hampshire one because I think like if we do that we'll have a lot of information that can.

A

Be transferred just to the nationals and I think we have to be sponsored by it for the national one.

A

Also, we can't just we have to have people. I found an old draft online. I just stumbled across it.

A

And this is the one they did in 1977. I don't know who.

A

That's when city hall was still at daniel street um and I don't even know I can't.

A

Even read the sandwiches on them, um you have to be sponsored also, and in this one there was a senator.

A

State senator or our congressman, I couldn't figure it out um that has to sponsor us. I.

A

Think that's why the person of new hampshire, uh you have to have a consultant who's done.

B

The application, because it's a huge application right, I think it's pretty substantial for both.

B

The state and the federal and I didn't know if you want us to just look for state or look.

A

They'll be listed on more places if we get them.

A

All all five of them on the state registry, we'll start there and see what happens, are any.

B

Of them already on the state registry or federal register, not a single one, just north is on uh yes,.

B

North is on the front.

B

And the most recent one was in 2021, summers were.

B

Close spot right, yes, an excellent. I also have to tell you I we.

A

It may not be that's why I'm saying executive step and start. I actually spoke to ben nelson who's. The.

A

Director of division of historical resources in person, because he was at the december 18th.

A

At fort constitution and they started a or that a specific person has been assigned.

A

Cemeteries and that the state is going to start focusing on cemeteries. You should know who that is.

A

Right but I'll get you that information, but I'm just saying: there's lots of help.

A

Out there I just got this sorry, so um if you guys want to download.

B

She didn't have anybody else calling, so it turned out to be a really good time to call her around.

B

The holidays, she wasn't tied up with anybody else now really well so suzanne. uh Is it suzanne.

A

um Presented at the january 24th and then then they go every two weeks after that.

A

Yeah, I think the next one is february um and so then you'll, let us know after that, once.

A

They approve it. The city council that city park complete all right, notifies people, okay, but then.

A

How this setup is, if we, if we need a counselor, if we need um the only thing I found, I I looked up.

A

The research on it and there wasn't it was hardly anything so this is the only thing it said about.

A

How to elect people to abort? It was nothing on what was required of the boards other than to do.

A

Attendance right so right we have the keeping up the minutes for any meeting.

D

That just doesn't show there, but it's that's what yeah public records? That's what you're.

D

Goal to shoot for, and you can always clean them up later, given that technically.

D

Six yeah um so um yeah, so it'll, look just like you've been doing.

D

You know you've got coaches, you just want to once the permanent committee is fully staffed. You can.

D

Formality say we elect your co-chairs.

B

Oh, but um gotcha.

B

First thursday february.

A

I don't know how does anybody else feel about that? I.

A

A

Won't be forever, but of course, cindy could try to change this.

B

Okay, so maybe all right yeah, so our next video will be thursday.

E

I just wanted to ask: did peter leave his computer and phone there or.

E

No, that's the city, that's the city's okay yeah! It's! This is a permanent room that.

A

Is set up right, I've seen it yeah. I've seen it in use before, but I just wanted to check.

E

A

I think you know the tendency will be better and stuff like that. A little bit.

A

So I got notices further to remind people um and next I really want to talk about next.

A

Meeting about subcommittees to really get going on that, so we can pull stuff together.

A

And then we can start talking about, like you said what we can start doing in the spring as.

A

Far as with what money we have and what projects we can start on, which I would assume would be.

B

I thought we had to prioritize the two cemeteries that were the oldest and most at risk. Graves.

B

I thought that was well, yes, I mean that's. Maybe.

A

On the top of the list, but I need to vote start voting on.

A

This is where we're going to start. This is who's going to do it appropriate. You know apply for the money.

A

You have to vote on all those things. Thank you. Thank you for coming.

B

B