City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Cemetery Committee, 3 Mar 2022

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 3.3.2022 Cemetery Committee

Description

3.3.2022 Cemetery Committee

A

Even this part learning this part, do, I just say, yep the meetings now starting at 403.

A

Of the cemetery committee, the official cemetery committee.

A

So I oh wait a minute, so we're called to order according to that.

A

So if we can do a roll call and we'll start with you sue sorry, I'm sorry.

B

Super dura yeah, carrie rubenstein uh susan sterry, chris basic michael griffin,.

A

And we have some guests with us today: richard adams is with us and he's going to speak about.

A

20 minutes on the history of union and north cemeteries. He actually knows about every.

A

Large cemetery in town, um but he's going to stick to that subject at this point because.

A

It's relevant to what we'll be working on in the near future. Do you want to sorry go ahead.

C

I just you've got committee members on the on sorry and and online I didn't mean to forget.

A

Overlook you ava or um ava boyce, and not at all hello, everyone, hi, hello and d.d forte.

A

Hi hi um now we do have some guests here that are maybe interested in joining our committee, so.

A

I just like to have them introduce themselves real quick, so that we know who they are hi. My name is.

D

Celeste, um I'm fourth resident lifelong, and this just sounded like a really interesting committee.

D

So I'm here to observe and hopefully join you guys and you heard about us on from anonymous.

D

Great and youtube marie keller, I also grew up in portsmouth and I found out the same way. It's great.

A

And I'd like to thank you carrie, you and I got another email and I responded to her so.

A

I'm waiting to hear back so there's a lot a lot of ways we can reach out through social media.

A

Absolutely so um next in order is the approval of two sets of minutes january 6th and um the.

A

Why does it say december january 6 and the february yeah we're going to have to wait on those.

C

Because we don't have the quorum okay, so that's what I yep. um What is the number for the rules on.

E

A quorum again, it's seven for this committee right now in person, yes in person, okay, how many people.

E

Do we have total on the committee? uh I've counted nine uh duncan hasn't gone through, but right.

D

Right so we're wondering yeah, I brought the list yeah two two, three, four, uh six, seven, eight yeah.

C

Nine, but there will be ten ones duncan. Oh duncan is official. He just monday night he'll be official.

A

So we don't have to worry about the minute at this point, but I did send out copies to everybody. So.

A

You can review them before the next meeting before I put up um introduce richard.

A

I just wanted to let everyone know that um cynthia who is in suzanne's office officially put us.

A

On in this room, the first thursday of every month at four o'clock, so we now have a standing.

A

Meeting time in place it doesn't mean you know. If something comes up, that we can't change it.

A

Or something, but that's going forward that that will be our time and place to meet so it will.

A

Make it easier for everybody so now I would like to introduce richard adams, as I had mentioned, he's.

A

Quite the historian on our cemeteries here in town. He was also on the 2013 maze blue ribbon committee.

A

An active member so he's going to give us a snapshot picture because he could probably go.

A

On for two or three hours about what's going on in all the cemeteries, so he was kind enough to.

A

Come in and do that so richard, however, you want to well. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

F

Yeah I could talk for two or three hours and if I tend to do that, please give me the hook.

F

Initially, I thought I was to talk on the south cemetery and.

F

For those of you who don't know there really is no official south cemetery, that's a uh sort of a.

F

Catch-All term for um six different cemeteries.

F

That that are owned by different people, different entities and of those only one is or two actually.

F

Are maintained by the city? That's the cotton and elmwood. The others are proprietors, which.

F

Is owned by the unitarian church, that's upon the top of the hill and part way across.

F

The hill rising up beyond the pond, then there's harmony, grove, there's uh sagamore and.

F

So anyway, I I initially thought that I was to talk on the south cemetery.

F

In particular, the people buried there and there's a fascinating array of of people.

F

Having grown up here, I assumed that.

F

That the people in that cemetery were pretty ordinary, like the rest of us and while.

F

Certainly many of them were many of them were remarkably distinguished in a whole array of ways.

F

Some had international reputations, there was the humorist, for example, uh who did.

F

There was frank jones, the brewer, so on and so forth. So anyway, I was prepared to talk.

F

About maybe 25 30 of the most noteworthy people that I could find in there, and so I had to.

F

Change gears shift gears rapidly this morning and talk about city-owned and maintained cemeteries.

F

F

We'll start with cotton um and that's the symmetry I'm assuming that most of you don't know that this.

F

But if you, if I'm telling something that that's already generally known, please let me know.

F

Cotton is is an old cemetery up at the top of the uh the hill. If you come up, richards avenue.

F

And turn left slightly, it's the first cemetery on the left behind, like the receiving vault on.

E

The road there up on that hill yeah and it dates from it. It was deena to or given to the the town.

F

uh In 1671 uh by a man named cotton, uh but it wasn't it and and it was to be used as.

F

A training ground for the militia, as well as a burying ground, but it was, it, was never used as.

F

A burying ground for almost 150 years in more recent times, that is to say the last.

F

Century or so it was largely a pauper cemetery not exclusively, but to a large extent.

F

And so there are all kinds of bodies, probably in there that are not marked, and uh anyway there was.

F

A couple of terrible incidents that that are noteworthy for cotton in in 1968.

F

A family named mayo lost five children.

F

Okay, thank you michael yeah, in two separate fires: five children, each.

F

Died and as michael just noted, one was named mclaughlin in 1968.

F

And the other was mayo and what year 1983 83 yeah. He just showed me that.

F

Okay, at the south end of cotton, if you, if you go down the hill and keep the cemetery on your left,.

F

It it's you come to the so-called elmwood cemetery and that.

F

That has only 12 uh internments in it and it's pretty much indistinguishable.

F

From cotton there's nothing that I know of that. That tells you there.

F

Let's go on to the north cemetery that was sold to the town in 1753, but there had been earlier.

F

Burial burials there, according to charles brewster, who wrote rambles about portsmouth.

F

Some of the notables who are buried in in the north cemetery are william whipple.

F

Signing of the declaration of independence, john langdon, prince whipple, an enslaved person.

F

And uh the first jewish family in town was is in there. They.

F

Their names were abraham, abraham and rachel isaac, and they came from prussia around 1780.

F

Dominic paduzi started the first catholic parish.

F

He died in 1840 and the reason he's not buried in a catholic cemetery is that there was none.

F

Until uh about 1868, I think when went out on route 33 called saint mary's was consecrated.

F

John langdon is buried there and he's in one of those five to the best of my knowledge.

F

Grave sites that are called chest and and uh hill they're earthen embankments.

F

And uh there's a couple of them there and there's there's two.

F

In a proprietor, cemetery and and one in the pleasant street cemetery.

F

Also in north cemetery there's a rather sad grave site for the walker children.

F

Three of whom died in the space of four days in 1798 and that they died of the yellow fever.

F

You'll find in most of the the old cemeteries of portsmouth there's there's a significant number of.

F

Children's grave sites, as you might expect.

F

Coming up to modern times in 2016, the 250-foot.

F

Stone wall running along maplewood avenue and the cemetery was was rebuilt.

F

There's a receiving tomb: well, that's not actually in in north cemetery, let's move to union which.

F

For all intents and purposes, might it might as well be part of north? Although it it wasn't.

F

Started until 1844 about 100 years after the north cemetery and again, there's no.

F

Distinct line or offense, or anything like that, um separating the two, the two cemeteries. However,.

F

um Union does have an arch which was rebuilt not too many years ago and uh there's a receiving.

F

Tomb and at the end of that that overlooks the north will pond and for years that was a.

F

Haunt of vagrants and and other undesirables.

F

And so, just a few years ago, the city um took that apart and it now it no longer has a roof or.

F

Even a back, but it they retained the um the front of it to give it the sort of antique look.

F

And I just was down there the other day and noticed that there's a lot of graffiti on.

F

The front door, so that's uh richard, can I ask you a quick question about that.

A

Was that part of what happened? Not what happened, what took place in 2016 when they were rebuilding.

A

The wall there in front of the two cemeteries did is that when they decided to take down.

A

The rest of the structure- yes, it is so yeah cause. I didn't read that in the plan I mean.

A

I may have overlooked it, but did they save those bricks or were they just discarded.

F

I don't know for sure david moore was in charge of that. I know that they took my picture with the.

B

Background of the backside of that holding grave okay, the vagrants have were drying their laundry.

B

So david moore took all that all that down, I'm not sure what they did with that, but I complained.

B

About that graffiti, when it happened several months ago and they were supposed to clean it, the.

B

City was supposed to do something, so that's that's. That's the old graffiti. It hasn't been cleaned and.

E

Then redone, as far as anything is the same one, the one that looks like a bat or whatever it is.

A

Yeah so there's graffiti now yeah yeah, it has been for quite a while yeah it's either a mask.

B

Or the the mask of the punisher or you know it's one of those things I couldn't figure out.

F

I think the initial plan was to rebuild that receiving tomb, but they've they found it was.

F

uh It would be far too costly and then there wasn't really much to be gained by that. So.

F

Nothing anymore, yeah. What they came up with, I think was it was a nice uh compromise solution and.

F

So when you look at it from the front it, it looks like a receiving time. Oh yeah, no, I mean I have.

D

A question so, what's a a receiving tune, it's a tomb where bodies are placed that can't be buried.

F

Immediately for one reason or another, most typically, it would be.

F

In the cold weather in previous times, when it was too too hard to dig a grave and.

F

Up on south street below cotton cemetery, you know: there's a yellow wood frame building and that's.

F

Owned by a funeral home, uh but the one next to it is, is a city-owned receiving tomb. That's an older.

A

One right, it's quite old, isn't it the metal ones, the three metal ones yeah? It is and.

F

Several years ago, one of the uh metal doors came off and came apart and, and it had been.

F

Replaced with a wooden door which in turn rotted, and so I had the occasion, I've always wondered.

F

What it was like inside those things, and I I looked and it it was clear that quite a few.

F

Coffins had been placed one on top of the other and they had collapsed.

F

Most of them, dated from the early 1800s.

F

And so there were skulls and bones lying all over the place. Was it really? How long ago was that.

F

uh Probably seven or eight years ago, oh wow! Well I never heard about that a lot. Well, you wouldn't.

F

Have well no, I mean I live here, so sometimes I do hear rumors and things yeah, but it's not the.

F

Kind of thing the city would want to promulgate it. That's a lot of weird people, I'm sure, but I.

F

Was struck by how built the thing is: it has an arched, brick roof and it looks very substantial.

D

So they they repaired that and did something with they put a new.

F

Wooden door on the coffins are probably just still in there all collapsed. The coffins. Yes.

F

Well, they do that, whether they're in the ground or not, you know, but so were these, do.

E

You think these were like unclaimed remains that were just no. No, it was a family.

F

The family name was loud l-o-u-d, oh, it was a family, okay, yeah and so for someone to be able to.

F

Do that to acquire a tomb like that, you have to be fairly well off the same. The.

F

Same is true up on the hill opposite side on in proprietor cemetery, where you have those two.

F

Hill type grave sites: um do you guys know where proprietors is? Okay, it's down by prescott park.

A

Wait, that's the one I'm talking! No! I'm sorry. That's that's point of view. Point of grace.

A

Proprietors up in south cemetery, sorry wrong pig. If you enter the cemetery proprietors is on the.

F

Right, no yeah, I know yeah yeah, I'm just telling them. Oh yeah and uh cotton is on the left. Yeah.

E

So richard you know like so um those very real vaults and I live close to north cemetery. I'm.

E

Over there, quite a bit, um those tombs of you know john langdon. I think it's uh sherburne family as.

E

Well, it's in any of these past commissions, because there are, you know various states of.

E

You know decay and stuff. Have anyone ever gone in um done any assessments on those um those vaults.

E

In north cemetery, as far as you know or they've been closed, not to my knowledge, no, you know.

A

No, I don't know that, but I think part of that is part of rsa. Is you can't you have to have a reason.

A

I have a copy and there's about 45 different um directives that tell you what you can and can't.

A

Do within the cemetery and vaults and walls and all of that, and I would think it would probably.

A

Come under you'd have to have a reason to go in there and get permits and do all that stuff. Unless.

A

You did it illegally, but yeah, because the one tomb is the, as you know the langdon tomb there. You know.

E

The center of the constitution, so it's a pretty, you can barely read it now I mean it's every.

E

Year that I've seen it's gotten worse and worse and I think that's one of the.

A

Reasons I'm glad that dick's here I mean richard is here that um that's one of the.

A

Reasons that this committee is so important there are a lot in I'm sure richard and.

A

um Sue polladura knows a lot about the history of especially north cemetery and union. That.

A

There are not just langdon and whipple and all those people, but there are a lot.

A

Of other people in all these cemeteries that were vital back in the revolutionary time plus.

A

um And I would say revolutionary because I'm a dar member but um but that's, I think, to enact to sell.

A

It to the the community we have to have some sort of focus and and historic is great, but I think we.

A

Have to define it just how historic they are, so the more information and names and and.

A

The history of it to put behind that we can get and put behind what, when we're going forward, it.

A

Will be re really vital because essentially my personal opinion is everyone, that's buried in.

A

A cemetery prior to 1800- well, no be the civil war um were vital in establishing this country.

A

You know the the revolution didn't end just in 1776. It went up until I think it was finally.

A

Settled in 1850 or something the last remains of it, but that's something that we can because.

A

We're such an old we're part of the 13 colonies, that's something that we can really wrap around.

A

And you know patriotism to the community, yeah yeah and that's real important. I'm just amazed.

E

I mean I'm not a lifelong resident like a lot of you. Guys are living here three years, but you know.

E

A student of history and just talking with people so many people, let's say a vast majority of people.

E

Have no idea like what's what's in that cemetery, and then you know the patriots and the history so.

E

As we start, I'm sure it's on our list and we're going to have to start getting really getting to.

E

Brass tacks soon, but like awareness, just the the awareness of what's in there, it's not just a place.

E

To walk your dog or you know, and you drive by it every day and oh it's pretty old, I mean I drew.

B

By that place for 30 years before, I realized that after I started, I started studying the.

B

Constitution, I just started wondering where they were buried and I'm like I drove by that place.

B

For I don't know, I don't live very far away from it, and I was like here was, I was so surprised and.

B

Then then I became embarrassed that I did not know that yeah, but I had given tours of people.

B

That had been here all their lives and they did not know who was there yeah? I've talked to so.

E

Many people too, and they have no idea. You know that yeah yeah, just to clarify for the.

A

Our guests here um we all got it on the committee when it was blue ribbon for various reasons. As I.

A

Said daughters of american revolution I applied to that so I started re rehearsal, researching where.

A

My relatives are buried and I, when I went to all these different cemeteries, I was just so astounded.

A

How you couldn't read the headstones, how they were broken and all of this, and that.

A

So that was my commitment. Sue is a big advocate of I shouldn't speak.

A

For you, but a big advocate of north and union cemeteries in the history involved in that so.

A

And michael is part of the big south cemetery conglomeration. I would call as well as rich.

A

Is a big historian and a part of that family too carrie is: uh did some research she's new to town.

A

And did really wait, though. My family's been here since the 1600s and kate and cape elizabeth and my.

D

Ninth great-grandfather is buried behind um fort constitution right and that's gonna happen. Yeah.

D

In a graveyard but yeah yeah, you came searching so we've all had a which I think is great. Various.

A

Reasons why we wanted to start something like this, so just to give you another perspective.

A

Of who we are and what we do or hope to do going forward, um I think we interrupted him.

F

Did you give your background because I didn't I don't know much about you.

F

I hope you don't know anything. Let me google, you, I probably can find some things, but.

D

Yeah well, I grew up in portsmouth by the second house, down from south street on richards avenue on.

F

On the right going towards the cemetery went to portsmouth high graduated about 100 years ago.

F

Susan was way behind me: welcome christopher columbus.

F

I went to harvard college on a navy scholarship. I became a marine corps pilot flew in vietnam and.

F

Then I went with eastern airlines and I on eastern went bust. I came back here because.

F

I have family, uh including extended family like michael over there, so uh because because you're.

E

Related yeah I've been quite involved with in in volunteer activities with the city. I mean.

F

With the athenaeum, for example, the wentworth gardner house and so on and so forth, right and.

D

He does want to have you he does walking tours all summer at the various point of graves. I've.

A

Seen here yeah I've done that and I I do the south center. You know I think you might find.

F

That quite interesting because, as I said, I I used to work in the south cemetery as a kid. I started.

F

Breaking leaves when I was about 10 and graduated finally reached the august heights of gravedigger.

F

Was quite quite a source of pride to me and somebody's got to do it. It's an important role.

A

So unsung heroes are still doing with the show, or did you have a backhoe yeah all handwritten wow.

F

Just going on to back to uh yeah, you have that's. Why? Yes, back to the north cemetery, there's one.

F

Grave, you probably shouldn't make any effort to um improve. In any sense, that's that of thomas packer.

F

Does that mean anything to you yeah? I think that's his son though he's not is. It is not the sheriff.

B

I think he is the son of the sheriff packard of ruth bly yeah. Okay, sorry! Well, these people.

A

Don't I just happen to know yeah? Well, the sheriff packer that I'm referring to uh is the one who.

F

Officiated at the hanging of ruth blay ruth ruth, was a woman from southampton new hampshire.

F

Who was accused of murdering a a child, a newborn and she contended? It was still born and.

F

We'll never know, of course, but.

F

Anyway, she was, she was.

F

Charged to be hanged and they brought her in the cart from the jail downtown up to.

F

The hill above south streets- we don't know precisely where the the uh hanging took place.

F

But according to the charles brewster, it was at the highest point of the that rise. um There was.

B

Supposed to be a huge tree, yeah well, of course, hanging in those days was even worse than it.

F

Became to be later when at least they made an effort to break your name in in this case, they.

F

Put you on a cart and push the card away and you'd strangle. So there was a large crowd assembled to.

F

See the hanging, and many people of course did not want ruth to die and they begged the sheriff to.

F

Hold off because it was felt that a reprieve might be enroute at any moment and in fact one was.

F

A horse arrived lathered and come from exeter and it was too late. Ruth was hanged and this packer.

F

I don't know if he actually said it or or people of that he would. You know attributed this to him.

F

But it, but he said, am I to lose my dinner and that's. He said he wanted to get it over with.

F

So he could get home and eat dinner. He said. Am I to lose my dinner, this woman for to hang.

F

Come draw away the cart, my boys and don't stop to say amen so that the crowd, of course.

F

Wanted to kill packer and they burned him in effigy and so on and so forth.

D

Oh well, that's! Okay! If you've got a couple more, that's great! Okay, uh I'll just in in union.

F

There are a couple of well three notables that you should know about two uh large ship builders.

F

George raines and frederick fernald and they they died within a few days of each other and.

F

They were prominent during the clipper ship era and.

F

Became quite wealthy and and well known, of course, does frederick. I know I've seen reigns as it's one.

A

Of the huge huge monuments uh this one right there yeah what about frederick, though I didn't know he.

A

Does he have a monument that's right right there right across okay top just fell off of it recently.

E

It was on the ground yeah. I have a picture of that. The piece on the top yeah yeah. I have again.

A

Another point you know to repair those yeah go ahead now another another interesting guy is.

F

Thomas bailey aldridge's grandfather, if those of you who are relatively new, haven't read.

F

The story of a bad boy- you should that was written by thomas bailey, aldridge.

F

And recounted his experiences living here as a young boy teenager in portsmouth in the 1840s.

F

And in the book he talks about his grandfather. He called him nutter uh grandfather another, but.

F

uh There's a lot of funny stuff in there like, for example, another or his real name, was bailey. Let.

F

His newspaper on fire, because he dozed off and cigar caught the the paper anyway, the.

F

Story of a bad boy is said to have served as a model for mark twain's, huckleberry finn.

F

I'll quickly go to pleasant street in point of graves. The pleasant street.

F

Cemetery is not particularly well known, it was, it was acquired in 1760.

F

Many ship captains and their widows are buried there and one thing you should know as members.

F

Of this cemetery committee is that many quite a few of the markers are are called cenotaphs.

F

You know that term okay, a cenotaph is, is you do yeah? This is a monument for for.

F

Someone who's deceased but who's not actually buried there. Oh okay, most typically in the case.

F

Of pleasant street it would be uh ship captains or sailors who drowned at sea.

A

Which is that's, what got me started and my grandfather was one of those.

A

Captains that got lost at sea really- and that was the cemetery that kicked me off.

F

To say is his monument in pleasant street yeah? Really yeah was his mass name, um haley yeah.

F

Okay and the last one I'll talk about is point of graves that was given to the town.

F

By a man named john pickering, who owned most of what we now call the south end.

F

A very large tract of land- he was an extremely well-regarded guy, very civic-minded uh and.

F

Very generous, the oldest standing gravestone in point of graves is 1682.. However, brewster.

F

Charles brewster, who wrote in 1859, said at that time there was. There was one.

F

Almost 50 years, older than than the one I just referred to, that is no longer visible.

F

Over the years since brewster's time, there's been lots of vandalism and who knows what else.

F

The point of graves is an excellent place to study the evolution of gravestones.

F

In the earliest days, people regarded death, as is a.

F

Pretty awful process and it was and from any of them, and so it would, you know- and there was this.

F

Fear of of hell that dominated the thinking of the time and so the earliest gravestones typically.

F

Have the skull and crossbones and then that that involved into a more um favorable view of death.

F

That there was a sense that people had a chance of going to heaven and so for those stones. You.

F

See lots of cherubs with wings and smiling faces and then by the 1830s when or a little earlier.

F

The gravestone material shifted from slate to marble, uh marble being a lot more expensive, but.

F

People in general were more prosperous than they were 100 years before.

F

And uh so the marble ones to often have urns and ailanthus or whatever.

F

Very um almost greek in in appearance.

F

I told you about the the fires in the uh that killed the 10 children in in cotton cemetery. There.

F

Was one in point of graves where a minister's daughter and his mother-in-law died in a fire.

F

In 1704 and the mother-in-law, the mother-in-law didn't actually die immediately. She was burned, but.

F

She tossed her son out the window and saved his life as his father caught him, but she died two or.

F

Three months later, all right. Well, I've overstayed my time. No, no! That's fine! No! I appreciate it.

A

I mean the more we know about the history. Can you ask a question? Oh sure, eva. I'm sorry.

G

May I ask richard question: please sure: go ahead. Okay, um so.

G

So you gave us such great information it made made my mind. You know kind of swirl.

G

One of the houses at strawberry bank is the peter loud house l-o-u-l-o-u-d, as you described, and.

G

Peter loud was a a craftsperson and he lived a feast or famine kind of life. He did very very.

G

Well and when the embargoes came before the war of 1812, they lost everything, blah blah blah blah blah.

G

And when you mentioned the louds it made me wonder, maybe wonder if there was a relation there.

G

And I wondered how you could cross-reference that like, if you were giving a tour at strawberry.

G

Bank, wouldn't you love to say that they're buried at cemetery and if we were giving.

G

Cemetery tours, wouldn't we love to say that their house can be visited at strawberry bank.

G

um And just you know cement so many things, the interconnectedness.

G

In the community you know with the cemetery, so if anyone has an idea of how you could find.

G

Out, um if there, if there is a connection and which is something we could probably use over.

G

And over and over again, I would love to know, because I would truly do it and also mr adams.

G

You told us so many wonderful things. Do you have like any things like computer files of things that.

G

You have that you could send to us that we could steal from you uh yeah. I I do. I can.

F

Okay, I'll do my best yeah ava, I was gonna, say um to get way back to when we.

A

Did our 12 points of what we were the individual groups and what we should focus on that does.

A

Fall fall in one of those categories, and um but how to how to do. It is what I.

G

Know so if you really want to go about it yep so because mr adams knows so many things that.

G

You know right and he's also with the anthony, which will be a big help and so the portsmouth so.

A

If you can think about wanting to be in charge of that, you know specific project going forward.

A

You can think about that, and that would be that's where we'll get it.

G

And the public library is wonderful, yeah, the portsmouth history room is fantastic.

G

Right yeah and it's everywhere, things aren't as specific, though I wonder if you go to the.

G

State but anyhow, that's a whole other thing, yeah, so yeah, that's certainly something it.

A

Sounds like you're interested in you could probably take that on not by yourself but.

F

I would, I would also suggest going going to the anthony um as susan just.

F

Just said they they have a very knowledgeable staff and some resources I've been so have you.

G

I'm aware, okay, the house that we current that I currently reside in in portsmouth. um I learned a.

G

Lot about by going to the athenaeum and the one of the families that live there is in.

G

South cemetery, but which one I I don't know but they're they're in there and I learned.

G

That, through going through the athenaeum all right, so how do you connect with him? Oh sorry,.

D

Thank you ava. How do you speak into the mic a little bit more? It might catch yeah. You can.

C

Pull that mic, how do you um connect with people at the anthony I mean or who should we talk to.

D

Oh well, in the in the hours that and days that they're open, there's, there's always someone at the.

F

Desk when you come up into the research and they'll they'll help you research.

A

Anything that you they do recommend that you call them first to make an appointment.

B

These days yeah, they haven't canceled that yeah. Thank you. So one of the things that.

E

You know I just been thinking about and looking at your notes or the subcommittee is, you know.

E

There's obviously, a lot of fundraising that needs to happen at some point.

E

Probably soon um to augment the money, that's you know put aside right now um and then the other.

E

Thing we've talked about is just the general you know, awareness of, like you know, what's going on.

E

What the mission is, and then I've heard you know sue I know, has done tours. You've done the tours.

E

um So how maybe this is, for you, susan, like how how does like the city um look at organizing.

E

Like tours, that are more funny funny funny you should talk about at the same time,.

A

That funny, you should talk about that so tours and revenue right, I get it. um All of us are very new.

A

To how the city politics works, and and truly we are in growing pains- I mean this is like.

A

I you know equated to well, or you know, getting a baby out at the end of nine months type thing.

A

Because there's so we're we're really in fact finding we're getting as much information from.

A

Everybody that we can learning what policies and procedures that we're going to have to go through.

A

um We've really done a lot of groundwork and by having the um our 12 focus points.

A

Which breaks down the fundraising um marketing you know, cleaning and all that sort of thing is.

A

All going to start pretty quick because this week, thanks to suzanne.

A

We are now going or I submitted a request to have a meeting with the city council and this first one.

A

How it goes is, and suzanne will correct me if I'm wrong, um I requested that we could talk to.

A

The city council to do a presentation on exactly what we're all about, because the city council.

A

Just about all of them are brand new, so um and you add that we're brand new you know.

A

We just need to get ourselves out there, so I put in a request it's on the agenda.

A

That the city cemetery committee wants to do a presentation. The council will vote on it right.

A

And set up a time so yep on the agenda under presentations and other communication is the.

C

Communication, you sent me susan with the backup information of some of the history of the work.

C

Or the document right you had prepared the you guys have it the um our projection, our historic.

A

Project it's like 23 pages, with all the pictures she sent that to to get on the agenda so that the.

C

City council could um could consider it, and so it might be. It wasn't clear to me whether you wanted.

C

When you wanted the presentation, so I think if you would like um I'm happy to convey that.

C

You know to the mayor that you would like them to consider setting up a time for a presentation at.

C

A future council meeting and you should feel free to come to the public comments section.

C

Section session there we go if you'd like and say in your packet, you have this information and the.

C

Committee would like to have an opportunity to you know: do a little presentation and kind of explain.

C

What you're you're doing a little report, just understanding that you know you're looking at.

C

Maybe you know 10 minutes kind of thing yeah, but I think that would be uh yeah. I'm happy to alert the.

C

The mayor that that would be the next step you'd like, but they do have the information.

C

That you provided, yes, absolutely that's! Well, I we don't have. We don't have consensus anyway, but if.

A

Everybody doesn't want to do it. Let me know later. um Yes, I would like to um do that, so it will go.

A

I will come or whoever wants to come and just read briefly about you know what the cemetery.

A

Committee is all about and right yeah. Why don't you do this? Why don't you and I can.

C

Talk off line, okay- and I think you have three minutes at public comment to say.

C

In your agenda packet, you'll have information background information on the cemetery committee.

C

And you know this is an opportunity for you to get to know the committee and we'd like.

C

To set up an opportunity to do a presentation, a 10-minute presentation at a future meeting.

C

Right and so that will give you time to right, prepare something. How does that translate into.

A

The capital funding, um when is the budget finally determined.

C

So the capital improvement plan is scheduled to be adopted on monday night.

C

So in the cip right now, I believe is the original 25 000 right that was put in by staff. You know, as.

C

Part of building out the budget, um and then there was a request by maybe it was counselor.

C

Kennedy yeah um for more than that, but that was just a request, so the city council would have to.

C

Vote on monday night to increase the current allocation of 25 000 to.

C

A bigger number okay! Well, I can talk to you offline about that. How how we do that, but this is.

A

The steps we're going to have to go through so um so everybody on the council knows what we're doing.

A

So I mean it's hard to ask for money or for them to confirm our plans um if they don't really.

A

Know us, and and what we're all about, which is the second part of the procedure, because.

A

We have the state of new hampshire approved an older application. We resubmitted it.

A

That union could be considered put on the new hampshire registry.

A

And the paperwork came through that we were, it was a viable presentation.

A

Or application and suzanne now has that so um that again has to go before the city council.

A

And that is on march 21st. Well, that's what we're aiming for, but I'll update you on.

C

The pieces that we're putting together for that right so um when you're, ready, yeah and then and.

A

Then um I'm so glad we have all the ground, we've done so much ground work and then the other part.

A

um What was the other? I just went right, it wasn't on my thing: oh the uh cleaning pres, which is on.

A

Here also, um we can't just say vote on. We want to clean. You know: 50 headstones, at union cemetery.

A

You know next week we have to have all that, and anybody was at the last meeting or listened in.

A

We have to have a precise plan put together for that, so suzanne did an outline for us.

A

In the minutes, but we have to work on that again, so that has to be presented and okayed.

A

By the city council before we can actually touch a headstone and start cleaning, so it's there are.

A

So many steps involved in this which we're all learning and my quick question is: when how do we.

A

Know I mean I know you tell us, but in advance is there a way to know like we wanted clean.

A

Headstones and we put a presentation or a form together saying that do they always have to go? You.

A

Know presented and see if the council will talk about it and then get put to another meeting or.

A

Are there more direct routes too? Okay? So how about I I back us up and I'll I'll, just kind of hit.

C

Kind of where a couple things are so let me start with some easy ones and then we'll get to that.

C

So, with regard to the application for to consider union cemetery as uh to be listed on the new.

C

Hampshire uh register yep, which we did get the letter back from the new hampshire division of.

C

Historical resources confirming exactly as susan said, that it is eligible still and they would.

C

Be willing to proceed on this older application that has been dug out and resurfaced. um So what.

C

We are going to do. Is staff right now is getting materials together so that we can bring this to.

C

The city council for their approval so that we could have authority to sign off and the kind of.

C

Information we want to make sure we can answer for the city. Council is what are the pros and cons of.

C

Agreeing to have this listed on the new hampshire register, I'm thinking there's mostly just pros, but.

C

We want to make sure that we can answer any question that the city council may have.

C

In terms of any disadvantages of listing it on the register, so what we're doing is it just depends on.

C

Whether staff has enough time to put together a memo to get it on the city council meeting for.

C

The 21st, but that would be the intention if we can put together. You know the pros and cons and have.

C

A quick conversation with an hdhr and make sure we're all comfortable with it, because it's always.

C

You'd rather make sure you have all the answers. If any questions come about it, so hopefully the next.

E

Meeting march 21st, where there's public comment there, there's a meeting this monday night, okay on.

C

Yeah, whatever, whatever those months- seventh, seventh and that's where the original I would.

C

Say communication to the city council is the one that susan put together with a little packet of.

C

Information on some of the you know, cemetery committee's work, so it's kind of like the.

C

Introduction and then can make the request for a more formal presentation. You know you know 10.

C

Minutes or so at a future meeting to kind of help, this move forward so so hope this may be.

C

On the meeting agenda for the 21st, I just it really is somewhat dependent on whether staff.

C

Can just feel comfortable enough that we can answer any question that might come up about it.

C

So I'll keep you posted, though I'm happy to send out a communication to.

C

The whole committee, so you would know if it's appearing on the agenda, normally agendas are.

C

Posted uh on the website, the friday morning, before the next meeting on the monday night, so.

C

Tomorrow morning, yeah yeah- it may even be up tonight for for monday's meeting, um but usually.

C

No later than friday morning so you'll know, but I'm happy to send out a communication so that you.

C

Guys will know if it's on the agenda or not in case you want to speak to it in public comment.

C

Because the way things typically work in a city council agenda.

C

Is there's a section at the beginning of the meeting for public comment, which is three minutes.

C

In length you identify who you are where you live, and then you know, make your statement and support.

C

So that's why I will um put it on my notes here I was getting to let you guys know a comment that.

E

We can all do on monday that you can talk with this yeah or whatever yeah yep. So a question you.

B

Said that they're voting on the cip on monday correct. So if we are asking for more funds.

B

Are they able to change that in future meetings or is monday? It monday is it for cip.

C

Items for so for capital improvement items. So if you have an interest in asking for more than.

C

The 25 000 that is currently in the budget, the cip budget, then yes, it would be appropriate in.

C

Terms of timing to come to the meeting- and you know advocate for your request, because.

C

It will be up to the city council on monday night to decide how much money to put in any of those.

C

Cip items and then it gets carried into the budget, the rest of the budget making process. Now there is.

C

You know sometimes things can change later on, but generally the plan is you try and set that cip.

C

Plan first, so that you're not making changes later, it's not to say that they.

C

Can't but it's not the best practice you try and get that number in there, so that you're not going.

C

Back later, as you're trying to do the other parts of the budget, so it seems to me that 25 000 is low.

C

And you are free to advocate for a different number, given the amount involved.

B

It's probably what we, what we are going to be using maybe two cemeteries to clean up that stones.

B

uh Maybe we should start for that. I may maybe next year when we have, we have been working at.

B

This for a year, we have a better uh understanding, so when they are trying to put together the budget.

B

We can say we need this much for the next working year yeah, but I just have a quick question when.

A

You ask money: do you have to designate the specific in the ci, the capital improvement.

A

I mean like, as, as you said, there was a request made and there was a statement that said.

A

You know for a survey does that money have to go to specifically a survey.

C

Generally, the cip monies will go for the project for which they're designated, but it doesn't have.

C

To be specific yeah, you don't have to be too far in the in the weeds so to speak. It.

C

It kind of has buckets so it may be a big project like a a sidewalk, well a sidewalk project, but.

C

For the cemetery you'll see it's a general, it's just a general num um placeholder for.

D

Any kind of cemetery restoration type projects, so it doesn't have to be specific to a wall in.

C

This case, so it depends on. I do not know that the item and I think you should be able to find it if.

C

You can't find it online there's a reference to it in the in the budget. I can show you.

C

You know we can show you where it is yeah. No, I know where it is: okay, yeah. Thank you all right.

C

What else so so so there's there's that piece and then the presentation piece and then just to.

C

Clarify when we get there, since it's kind of the next item on your agenda, which is the.

C

Headstone cleaning yeah, so I did put what I understood to be the summary of work in.

C

The draft minutes, and so if, if you all check that and make sure it looks good.

C

Then I think I can draft up something more formal that we can get as a here's. The program, and here.

C

Are the steps come up with the volunteer form for you and kind of put a whole package together.

C

Technically, we don't need city council approval, for this type of you know, maintenance. You know.

C

Maintenance work as long as we have money in a budget somewhere for it, which, as you know, we.

C

Do have a little bit of money available already for maintenance activities for.

C

The cemetery, so what we could do is get a proper package together with the rest of the.

C

Pieces that you would need- and I you know, make sure- that the division of historic resources is.

C

Perfectly thumbs up, particularly you know, given the sensitivities and then.

C

We'd probably give notice to the city council that this activity would take place. Oh okay,.

C

And you know so no one was surprised because it'd be right. You know action happening in the.

C

So a city councilor would get a phone call saying: what are they doing down yeah exactly exactly so.

C

So if you would like, if this looks good, I will get this more formally kind of in a package of.

C

Here's the proposed project, here's what the forms would look like and then we go forward with you.

C

Know just making sure that everyone who would need to bless this activity so to speak um is good with.

C

It um and then we could give you the green light to. I could, you know, start picking a date and and.

C

You know identifying funds and that kind of stuff. So if you're good I'll know to move this to the.

C

Next place, and even though you can't take a formal vote, if, if you guys are just telling me it's.

C

Looking good, then I'll I'll take it to the next step for you for another package, okay, so um in.

A

That package, that's where we would do the request for money, and all of that we have so much to learn.

C

We'd we we would, we would I'd, put that together in terms of where the funds would come from and.

C

How much we you know, but that that's part of the pro okay we would take, or we would.

C

Take care of that piece we would take care of the back end of ordering and all that.

C

Kind of stuff, okay, but you would put okay, yes, we'd, probably order the materials and.

C

You know provide the some of the logistical pieces and susan, so any any type of activity.

E

In the town that, like for a committee but like back to like tours and raising money,.

E

Money that would come in for funds for a cemetery for tours. That's all something.

E

That would be part of whatever plan we'd want to present an outline to and then at some point.

E

It would have to be like city council voter approval because there's like money involved right.

C

So there is a trust, uh historic cemeteries, trust and um what I could do is I could pull up I've.

C

Been playing with the website a little bit because there is, there is now we've created the donation.

C

Button, which is something we wanted to do so it's a little easier to point to, and I think what.

C

Would be helpful because I've been working with stephanie c cord who helps with the you know, web.

C

Pages and stuff, I can show you what we've started to play with, but if you wanted to designate one or.

C

Two of you to work with stephanie and me: you know just to make it efficient um to kind of tweak the.

C

The web page a little bit with hey we're looking at doing some projects and here's what's coming.

C

Later in the season, you know we could work on that language with stephanie and see if we can.

C

Do this, so, if you want, I can pull up quickly what we've please what we've started to play with.

C

Just so you know where, where it is and where it would be so hang on. Let me I gotta drop us down.

C

And hopefully I don't disconnect anyone on zoom, while I'm.

C

Doing this, so my apologies, if I do in advance okay, so let me screen share.

C

Okay, let me drop this close all right.

D

Okay, yeah yeah yeah, so we've got um if you go under government.

C

And then there's boards and commissions.

C

And we made one for some: oh, you know what she may not have it live yet I just realized she didn't.

C

Make it live yet anyways we're putting in here a cemetery committee listing and then it will go.

C

And take you to a page, I just realized: we've been working on it, but I didn't make it live um and and.

C

There are buttons there's like a description. There's a nice picture of point of graves.

C

And then we were going to put a little blurb. That says, you know here's the committee and you know.

C

There are some projects that are coming and then there's the donation button, okay um and then it.

C

There's a little place where you can click to then take you. You know to the parks and greenery page.

C

Yeah, where it has all of the cemeteries, including the african bearing grounds you know, committee.

C

And your their work over there, so it's going to jump you to the to the old page, but you can come.

C

Through this, the new page, the new page for the cemetery committee and put the donation button.

C

Somewhere very visible, I just need some verbiage really to invite people to encourage people.

C

To let them know that there's something new happening, give them some money or your taxes.

A

Will go up so just join us sorry anyway, so so I think it would actually be helpful to have one.

C

Or two of you, as kind of a little working group, to work with stephanie and me to to build that.

C

Out but we've started to mock it up right um so um and and in that process, just real quick would.

A

Does that get us on the front page of the city clerk where she has the links listed down the side.

C

Yes, so you'd start there and you could click on cemetery committee so that first page was the.

A

First page of her okay, I thought I I misunderstood. I thought you'd have still had to go to dpw.

C

No okay, it would it would click over like if you keep clicking for more information.

C

It's going to take you to where the rest of the detailed information is fantastic and we could.

C

We could consider other. We were just trying to look for the quick, the quick way to stand.

C

Something up um and make that donation button put it up front and, like I said we really just.

C

Need to come up with some verbage, I think that encourages people and lets them know why they.

C

Would want to contribute there and then you could start to you know, link to that page right.

C

So that's my my thinking and stephanie. Does our facebook page too so right? Oh, okay, that's great!.

A

So that those were the the two things you wanted to do right, yep just to bring you up to speed.

C

And make sure you guys were good with how I've outlined things yeah so that I can take it to.

C

The next step and we'll get some, hopefully some approvals, so even we did go out of order which.

A

I don't think it's terrible, but we'll try to stay in order next time we just anyway, so we did.

A

Mr adams spoke to us. We, the headstone plan, just I think offline. We can probably do who wants to.

A

Like join a working group for working on the page and for working on getting more information and.

A

How connected and who might want to work on the 400th? We still have a little time. Do we.

A

Again, because that's a city thing, if we make out an application, do we have.

A

To get that approved uh an application for what sorry I missed that 100th committee.

A

She said we had to make out an application so that we could be a part of the committee.

D

Oh okay, okay, yeah, all right I'll talk to you guys about that. One too: okay um for the 400s.

A

Yeah right, we have to make an application right right by june right. We have a little right. Okay,.

A

So I'll bet again, you can check into it. Luckily, that's not my committee, so yeah we'll talk and.

C

And I'll uh all right: well, we'll figure it out. We don't want to break any rules or go.

A

Out of line or not break rules, but get held up because we're not following the right procedures.

A

So um that's basically the reason why it's real important that we we, thankfully we have suzanne so.

A

So I think at this point we've covered everything. It is five, almost five ten does anybody have a.

A

Quick question: we can go offline um to figure out email, each other to figure out who wants to be on.

A

What group? Oh also, we don't want to do too much by email. Remember, because that creates a meeting.

A

No, yes, I would um are there a couple. Are there do we know if there's one or two people who who.

C

Right now have a sense of wanting to work with stephanie on a little blurb yeah, okay, carrie yeah.

D

I will also ava okay: when are you back eva march, 25th? Okay, you must be down south eva then I am in.

G

Arizona visiting my son a long delay from covid. Well, nice, that's great, enjoy.

E

Thank you, I'm happy to be here all right, so I'll work. If it's okay, I'll work with ava and carrie.

C

And stephanie and we'll see if we can finish the mock-up and yeah that's great. That's absolutely.

D

Great just can I make a quick observation. uh I think this committee's off to a great start, I'm.

F

I I see good things ahead. uh I was on the first iteration of the blue ribbon.

F

Cemetery committee and we started out pretty well, but we had some members three to be exact, who were.

F

Are not used to committee dealings and compromise and believe it or not, the meetings became so.

F

Contentious that broke up. I went to mayor ferrini at the time and told him that and asked him for.

F

Assistance- and he said I'm just going to shut the committee down which he did so, I'm glad to see it.

F

It's renaissance here um were you chairman of that of the blue ribbon. I became it yeah, but.

F

But it occurred to me that it's no wonder that uh nations can't get along when, when.

F

You can't get along in a committee of 12 people or something right yeah exactly. This has really.

D

Been an education for me because I come out of the business world. I think you do too and.

D

Yeah- and I was like you know, let's just get it done, let's go, do it, that's what I'm saying.

A

Yeah, let's start scrubbing and raising, and but you know it you do have to kind of go with the flow of.

D

The town, I guess yeah yeah yeah- I mean there- are definite procedures and she's. A walking expert.

A

For us, thank goodness- and um I mean there are things that we can do and can't, but you have to.

A

Ask on everything: that's my been my learning curve because I come out of the corporate world too. So.

A

You have to realize it's all going to take a lot of time more time than it would if you could just.

D

That would be true. It always takes more time. So sorry about that, that's why yeah I didn't.

A

Want us to get discouraged a couple of months ago when everything sort of slowed down, when we.

A

Transitioned to we are official now right: oh yes, it would help. If you had a few mem extra members.

C

Because well yeah we're working on that: okay, yeah, so duncan gets approved on monday night. So that'll.

C

Bring you to 10., I think 11 was what they were originally shooting for 11 to 18 or something.

C

Which is why they were thinking. Seven was a good quorum number or you know it's. Why we're stuck.

C

With the quorum of seven because it says eleven to or twelve whatever, thank you so much carrie.

A

So, thank you. um I'm glad richard was here to explain that it's it's slow.

A

Going and he's enthusiastic about or encouraging that we're on the right.

A

Right will you be doing your summer, south street tours south cemetery? Yes, yeah, I'd like to.

F

Okay and how do people know about that? Well, let me let me close the meeting: okay, yeah, okay,.

A

I know I look silly sometimes, but I'm trying to learn the procedures, so we are officially done at.

A

5 14. and our next meeting, as everybody knows, is standing now, the first thursday four o'clock right.

A

Here so it will be next, um I put the calendar and I don't know a specific date, but I have it here.

A

Yes april 7th, um yes april, 7th is the first thursday in april.

A

Okay. The meeting is closed. The meeting is closed. Now you can talk to her.

A