City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Cemetery Committee, 8 Sep 2022

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9.8.2022 Cemetery Committee

A

Thank you there. We are okay, hello, everybody from the cemetery on committee.

A

um Can we start with, um I call us to board and get a laugh of all of this right um and.

B

Then a roll call I'll just have you each go so I'll start with sue colader. Please support.

B

Peter rice, suzanne woodward, michael griffin, john martinson sloth, brooks very rumored.

A

Eva voice and susan sherry, we are here and ready to get to work. um As you see.

B

Peter rice is with us today um he's the head of the dpw, and he has all our money.

B

So, um let's be nice, so we have all our money. Yes, I know I'm just your little financial moment.

A

um Yeah, you have to be smiling with all this that goes on in the city, so it's a big city.

B

Even though people think we're small, um so what is called the capital improvement? I hope you all.

B

Got a chance to at least skim the 2013 um report, assessment and restoration plan. If you didn't.

A

That's okay. I have a little presentation, but your future everything that we're working off of.

B

Is in here this is a perfectly good document. It I have a problem yeah. No, I once in my email I think.

B

Some of my stuff copies when uh the first meeting from suzanne, but it's also online. So you can go.

B

Right under cemeteries and and pop it up so it's budget time for the city. So I don't know that.

B

It's changed, but I've been told it is they're starting earlier in the season. Is that it or.

B

In the process, so today we're going to talk about um potential projects that we might want to try to.

B

Get money for and bump it to the top of the well put it up there as opposed to our list with about.

B

25 things, so we want to put some at the very top that we should strive to get between city money.

B

And fundraising and grants, so that's what the beginning of the meeting is all about.

B

So um I'm just going to show you a briefly a a little slideshow that I put together.

B

Of some of the big projects that were big and small that were, um I could, I could do well.

B

That's all right, I can sit here and shout at everybody.

A

So minimize this yep.

B

All right so, um as you all know, we're working on uh north indian cemeteries right now and we've.

B

Picked north because of the 400s next year so and it's right downtown. So that was a good place to.

B

Start this humongous project, that's ahead of us for all the cemeteries, so one of the things that.

B

We could possibly request money for or in addition, because we have suzanne has the biggest horse. We.

B

Have yeah, do you want to do a quick review? Yeah suzanne has a figure of what we have to.

B

Work with right now, yeah so right now, based on prior years, uh appropriations and.

A

The 40 000 that was set aside in the fy 23 budget, that total is 107 000, and so that is.

A

The pool of money now keep in mind that um you did. uh Yes, we did the lovely grant for the most part.

A

um The grant request is for 20 000 right with a nine thousand dollar additional match on the.

A

City's part in order to conduct a portion of this riverside tickering proposal to deal with the wall.

A

uh Next to the pond, um the total for that work. If we had the monies to do, the total was uh looks.

A

Like estimated construction of 46 675 again, this is last year's prices. No, uh with permitting costs.

A

Of another eighteen thousand seven and that's to do the full phase of the work, not just the 29 000.

A

Of phase one, but I think keep that in mind that that's you know this is project number one that.

A

You guys have teed up and we'll keep our fingers crossed, that we get that moose plate money in.

A

Which case, I think we get an updated proposal and maybe that one gets launched depending on you know.

A

Peter and public works is you know, review of specs and and all that so just wanted you to have that.

A

In the back of your mind that those pieces are in the in the pipeline that you guys have teed up and.

B

That was I'm not sure how I came ahold of it, but I have a draft of the original 2013 assessment.

B

And there is a lot more detail in there and there are a lot more small projects listed in there. So.

B

We do have access to that and one of the things that was listed in there and also.

B

On the edge plan, the woman who came in and designed what the edge of the cemetery should look.

B

Like that was also mentioned in her report, how the back wall desperately needed to be taken care of.

B

And then to move on and remedy the the erosion that's taking place further on down.

B

And just so that you know that's one of the reasons I brought the map.

B

From where the wall stops to where all the erosion is happening, that was all filled in at one time.

B

So this has happened over the years that you know the erosion, the additional wall that needs.

B

Or you know something has to be taken. Care of has occurred over the last hundred years or.

B

Maybe even a little less, I believe, corn was out in pickering marine and I think you was playing.

A

This proposal, together and kind of looking at the conditions in the field right and actually the big.

B

Tree when it came down that I was out there, so I let corn know and he's going to take care of that.

B

um So, in addition to what we're doing in that backside, which is already on the plate to take.

B

Care of we could actually hire somebody to come in and straighten up the headstones that are really.

B

Tipped I mean we as a group we'd have to decide. Do we want everything to be perfectly straight or.

B

Do we just want to take care of you know like this one right there straightening up or the ones that.

B

Are really tilted and we could combine with actual repair of headstones. Both are equally important.

B

B

My thought is: um straightening up the headstones.

B

Just doing that, what a difference it would make in the look of the whole cemetery.

B

Without I mean people expect that there are going to be broken, headstones and repaired.

B

um But to see all everything up straight or fairly straight, it would just make it look.

B

So much better in that cemetery, so that's one one thing that we could um aim for and I don't.

B

Know what it would cost I'd have to scramble and see what I've gotten all different prices.

B

On what it costs to fix a headstone to, why don't you just do it yourself, which we could do? I mean.

B

We could be trained just like we were to clean headstones too, and it wouldn't be for everybody.

B

It would obviously it would have to be for do. We know how far in those headstones are. You know we.

A

Have to dig down a lot or a little just to show them back up. Every headstone would be different.

B

Yeah, no, there was, and I'm not just saying that yeah every headstone would be different. I mean.

B

If you go there and try to move some of those, that would give you an indication of how deep they are.

B

Down, but some of them, even the most tilted ones, may not be that far down. They may be closer to.

B

The top than they are down, but then we would have to decide if we put a new base in there or just.

B

Bring them up and shore them up around the bottom, instead of bringing them all the way out of the.

B

Ground like that gentleman who came to speak us at the beginning, and he took a lot of his right out.

B

Of the ground he had the time and the and the energy to do it and uh to try to do that with.

B

All of these would seem a little common productive, but I don't know if that's something we want to do.

B

As far as super straightening, we can discuss that later any questions or yes, um if we go.

A

Without um just straightening them and the stone breaks in the meantime, getting out of the.

A

Leave it broken. I'd have to there's new products in there that they use to repair headstones.

B

I don't know how much it costs and and how complicated it is, but I don't think it's.

B

That complicated, do you michael, I mean you've been fixing headstones lately, so.

A

You gotta be very careful when you extract those yeah, particularly the slave ones,.

A

Right so that's I use a chain form, but that one in the in the background.

A

Either one of those like here yeah, you put a nylon.

A

B

So that's why, having someone professional, do it? Well, you get to that point.

A

That's the cotton cemetery.

B

There are a number of people in the area that do it professionally yeah, so I mean that's certainly.

B

On the table, so um so a little bit absolutely sure. A number of meetings ago we talked about the big.

A

Big grant that the state gives- and you were just kind of saying you know at some point we.

A

Might have to toss around ideas for a project, and you know, and and we might want to do that.

A

That what you're discussing might be a very valuable thing to apply for.

C

Absolutely in terms of that that money, which can be big money and would be very, very helpful.

A

I'm not saying that has to be the one, but it might be good to put it in the back of our.

A

Minds somewhere yeah, because we could include um union, which has several yeah, broken monuments and.

B

Stuff like that, so yeah, I would certainly be worried. There's a lot, that's working, but that.

A

Surely would be worth it looks like chris is trying to zoom in so we can you reach over yeah.

C

Do you have the password suzanne, uh the new one, and I yes, this is the new one. She just gave me.

A

That's the revised yeah.

B

I didn't speak to him, but I texted with him yeah I mean.

A

Look, let's see if there's something um yes so hold on, I'm gonna yes check, and so this is just.

B

An example of one of the broken monuments there aren't a lot of those, but still they were um sort.

B

Of pillars of our community, they were shipovers and things like that. So that's your purity yeah.

B

Yes, so I I obtained, I got that for some reason months ago. So then I saw it today because I.

B

Have a picture or a painting of pebble dock a little surprise when you see a small tab.

A

Hold on, I was waiting to see if he's going to come.

A

Yeah because he should pop up in the screen, let me send on a bag of text and I've unlocked it. Let's.

A

See if we can retry something so again, this is just an example of you know, professionally being.

B

Done that is out there on the list, regardless of whether we put in the money for it. This.

B

Year or not and restoration of some of these fences, which can be done, um I'm told in its.

B

It's not that expensive compared to what you, if you had tried to replace them, which I don't.

B

Think we want to do that anyway, uh it would cost an arm and a leg and I've been told from.

B

Various people that work in this product or the wrought iron, that you know they can be cleaned.

B

Up fairly easily and made not to look new but to make bring it back. So was that chris, that just.

B

Kind of open it up and try again, I told uh donna, was on the phone and I said to.

A

Have her try it, but I've unlocked it. It should pop up under success.

A

This should show up right.

B

Oh, I said participant one up there yeah. That was just us. Oh okay, sorry.

B

So that's out, there uh wait wait. We talked about this already, which is.

B

Is a feather in our cap that we got a major thing up and running and started.

B

The process, which is really great, I really think we should all be proud of ourselves and.

B

Being really proactive, so um it's a mess, but it can be repaired and um and unfortunately, all of.

B

These bricks and those bricks down here when they took this down, they just threw it in the.

B

Into the water or the bed, when it was there so but they're still there and they could still.

B

Be used so it still could be the majority of the original structure. If we decide to do that.

B

This is the area that was has been eroding over the last 100 years, maybe not more than that.

B

um And this is what's incredible: half of the trees out those roots are just supporting that.

B

Those trees right there, but anyway, this is a whole, is the step two of um from pickering.

B

We could option or not opt we. One of the options could be to clean this up and put rip rap and a.

B

Matter of fact, I think that's what they suggested was putting rip rap down, which just means both big.

B

Boulders that you just dump down the truckloads and you dump it down and it helps stop the erosion.

B

Because this was never had a wall in it, so it wouldn't. We don't have to be.

B

That aesthetic to bring the wall all the way down, it would be way too expensive to do that.

B

And I don't know what it would really accomplish at this point other than because up here there.

B

Are four or five headstones right along that ridge that are maybe 18 inches or two feet from.

B

From the um edge, so that's so this is really principally an erosion control measure.

A

To protect the rest of the cemetery right because we don't know, what's going to happen.

B

With with the erosion with the redevelopment behind us, there is talk that this cemetery.

B

Would be included in a greenway so when the building behind us, mahoney's and down by the.

B

Railroad tracks and everything, eventually, that's going to be a green walkway. People are already.

B

Cut in through here and use the cemetery as a walkway anyway, so it would be nice to um if.

B

They take care of that end of it. It would stop the help, stop erosion in the future too so, but we are.

B

In the process, not in the process, we are included in the thought process about the green light, so.

A

So, oh yeah, it's just showing these trees, it's just incredible. What can grow where.

B

um I did this for sue, that's gone, they cleaned they were able this summer to get to there.

B

And they um took care of that. So that's no longer there's no longer any graffiti.

B

I was just down there yesterday and there was only one beer can and.

B

It looks like a headstone that had been repaired had purposely been broken, but other than that.

B

Everything looked really good between the two cemeteries, so I expect the increased activity from.

A

Your committee and others maybe helping keep down the vandalism because there wasn't. There wasn't.

B

Really it looked really good so and it was no mowed. It looked really good thanks to.

B

The city department- this is cotton cemetery and, as you can see, there's a lot of um tilting.

B

Headstones and things like that, so we committed our we did, which is great. She contacted me.

B

For a 400th celebration project we're going to try to clean cotton cemetery in two or three sessions.

B

In june, because there's 400 and odd number of headstones there so thought it was appropriate.

B

400 400 headstones, um so hopefully what we have this winter to work with larger groups of people.

B

That we can get in there and plan what weekends we can do in two weekends. Hopefully, we'll have the.

B

Military available to us at that point um so and then I want to really get a big banners when we.

B

Do it before we start it and do it so we've got plenty of time to put that all together.

B

So I think that's fantastic news, that's one more cemetery that will be actually finished well,.

B

The top side of it will be finished um in less than two years, so that would be really great.

B

Oh this one slipped back in for north.

B

This is union cemetery also, we have quite a few in union that look like this, so that would be.

B

Part of that other project, if we had somebody come in professionally the kind of things that.

B

We would have them repaired and also. This is also a good example of the wrought iron.

B

Some of the standing posts are are broken, but the the whole design of the cemetery was. It was sold.

B

As a family plot cemetery, so they got to choose what kind of encasement that they wanted. So.

B

If we sort of go by the principle trying to get it back to what we know, it was designed as that.

B

Would be, you know, fixing all the railings in the post and standing everything up.

B

And again can't put any prices on any of this right now, because people aren't coming out.

B

To even look at all of this project, but.

B

It's not going to be cheap, so this was- and I did this again- this was the design so that when you.

B

Came and you saw the big arches like before opened up, the gate walked down and there's the receiving.

B

Tomb, which was part of the design, so it really is a pretty little cemetery dramatic. I love it.

B

It is, it is a pretty cemetery and with just I can't wait till we start cleaning headstones.

B

Putting back rails that were originally there, cleaning up the rails that are um still there.

B

And I was told that they can be straightened, so some of them that are bent and what have.

B

You we don't have to replace them, they can be straightened again. Nobody's wants to give.

B

Me prices um at this point, but it's doable. So if anything, we need to know this information.

B

What we can do so and start fundraising or looking for grants, then we can really track.

B

Down people to come and give us some legitimate money, I mean estimates about what it would cost.

B

Again, the same just another good picture of you know: rails are still there. Luckily.

B

Sometimes it looks like people just went through picked out rails because they needed.

B

Something to do at their farm or something and they took it home. I have no idea, but.

A

What anything is possible? Yeah really, the only way you can get hand mowers inside those.

A

So I'm going to disappear, sometimes section will disappear. That's the primary reason.

B

Yeah, because all of them weren't.

B

Back in the day, did everybody have to take care of their own? I mean because corn and and the.

B

Those guys, you know it's all nice and neat in there right now and clean and everything.

A

So um they've done a really good job this summer, in keeping the grass down and making it basically.

A

Well, that's what yeah, whereas before they'd, have to get the animals onto those individual lots.

A

To do so to break out one of those iron.

A

What kind of rare laws were another tidbit? um Thank god for we like yourself. It's a lot of.

A

Every question about belongs in the center are: is there a certainty that has to down- or it's.

A

Something like lawn maintenance or worry, where you can do something like a clover field, which is much.

A

More low maintenance, you don't have to break down wrongs to get in and take care of the bathrooms.

B

You know I never thought of that, but that's something down the line that might be interesting.

B

I did some research on lawn maintenance in large cemetery or in cemeteries in general and.

B

The big um problem is always they, the grass gets thrown up on headstones, and it does eventually.

B

Over the years and years where it's acidity wears it down, but I've never seen anything alluding to.

B

Replanting, a cemetery with something else, that's a good question.

C

Yeah, I didn't speak up for our. We have a very multicultural approach to uh grass grasses.

C

And we do not discriminate against weeds, so anything, that's green and drought, tolerant.

C

Anything naturally, that grows is much better off than anything monoculture.

C

When you do monoculture, it's susceptible to being wiped out by disease or infestation of.

C

Some sort right, so I would encourage us to keep it as natural as possible.

C

Multicultural and weeds are only flowers that people don't like, so no, it was still my mother.

B

Nature, that's true. This is the only uh gate in there, but I mean yeah. It would be a shame to you.

B

Know we could just repair that as far as that goes at first or what have you but yeah, and I still.

B

Can't it's a r h arnold! For now this is a really old portsmouth family name yeah. I think that they.

A

Were should build yeah? I think the majority of the people buried him without doing in-depth. You.

B

May have done more are a lot of [. __ ] builders are in this in this graveyard, so family graveyard.

B

um This has not been on our agenda, but you have um in your packet. You have.

B

A copy of the town document, the tax record that says sports: this is an enforcement cemetery.

B

um The last time it was cleaned was 1983 and a bunch of like joe sotel and his wife and louise.

B

Talbert I mean tallman um went in there and they paid for I they it applied. It doesn't make any.

B

Difference they went in there and cleaned and cut down a lot of trees and everything like that. So.

A

This is when you go down south street and wear vine and wine and vine or whatever it is.

C

It's or do they do it off the bracket. It's in between yeah, it's in between south street and.

C

Little harbor school right so, but I I'm right behind former council of this house right and I.

B

Believe, there's a pathway still exists that you can walk down through and go into it. I actually.

B

Talked to the people that live over here and I'm not sure a couple years ago the city went over.

B

And fixed the stone wall to an extent they were falling down and they have young kids back there.

B

I don't know how I don't know anything about this cemetery other than it's filled with revolutionary.

B

um Sea captains who own privateers, there's nine of them in here, along with odeon and other names like.

B

That so um it is part of our history, I think the earlier earliest one in there is 1750.

B

So it's definitely a part of that heritage and um needs to be in on ours. On our outlook.

B

um Again, this is something that might not cost a lot of money. I don't know what the rules are.

B

About bringing in outside um people to arborists to cut down the trees and chop them up as long as.

B

We get the funds for max can do that with two days as long as we take care not to damage the stones.

B

Well, yeah and a lot of the stones are gone there. I I have a map of it and I think a lot of them.

B

Are gen are have been tilted over or tipped over and are under a lot of this debris. There's about.

B

An inch and a half two inches of debris on top of um some of the headstones there, so it's certainly.

B

Yeah, but if we went in and did it as a volunteer, what we can talk about that later, I mean: are you.

B

Saying we could do this and not have to I mean we need a chipper and stuff, maybe well, I no. I know.

B

Anyway, that's a doable project and maybe we don't need outside money for it.

B

Okay, michael, it's your project.

B

Well, I think the people um that, on this side here aren't, might be very open to having it cleaned.

B

Up because when I talked to them, they were that's how I found out about stuff. um She was.

B

You know agreeable to have it cleaned up and stuff and they would love it.

B

And she said she thought most of the neighborhood would again. This was back.

B

In I don't know um april or may so so- and this is just more of the headstones.

B

The fence um we'd love to take the fence down, um but there's some dispute about who owns the fence.

B

So until we can figure out what who owns the fence, uh we can't do anything with it.

B

At this point in time, except we could have it cleaned up around there. Okay, very close and yeah.

C

Right, nobody could tell me who owns this road yeah. All of this is in this move so, but I knew and.

B

Not complicating it may be really advantage going forward. Is the.

B

Fact that the new company that bought the railroad is looking to really integrate with the city.

B

So we may be um and they're working with planning about the greenway and things like that and so.

B

He's not here today said he would keep us in the loop about what's going on because it seems really.

B

Post cemetery and means said he would help us along the way to keep us going and who might be.

B

Interested in supporting some of the projects for the cemetery, you know why did joe after parker.

A

What would go there and sandwich, and would you want just nothing or more of the stone.

B

Well, piscataqua landscaping is supposedly working on a an edge what they call the edge.

B

Plan they haven't gotten back, I didn't tell them. It was like top top priority.

B

But she's still working on it and the suggested that edge plan is on under the cemetery site too.

B

And yeah there's no fencing in it. There wouldn't have been a fence when it was first built.

B

So and if it becomes part of the greenway, definitely no fencing, so whether we did planting.

B

You know it doesn't mean we can't plant or whatever down the line, but um no offense and.

B

And that's going to be up to the railway and all kinds of.

B

Discussions already taking place with the city and someone representing the railway and mahoney's.

B

And everything so again, this is a project down the road, but it's up there so.

B

Little did I know when I started doing research on a lot of this stuff like it was like. Oh can't.

B

We just take down a fence; no, we can't just sit down uh now. This is the big project.

B

That we were um refer are not referring. That may be considered for the larger el elsa.

B

So this is a point of grace I, this is almost two feet drop in the.

B

In the wall- and you have pictures- that's what I included in your little pack.

B

I've been trying to get pictures of what this originally looked like back in the day and.

B

This is not a painting, even though these on them said it was. This is an actual photo again.

B

It was like the turn of the century and you can see how high the fence lies.

A

And that's also the sheath house, and what and how you're looking right now. This is right. Oh yeah,.

B

The there is no right seat right where this is they move this, the sheath house.

B

Where this is you go straight ahead, that's where they put the bridge to pierce island.

B

That's where the bridge is so back in the turn of the century. This wall was brick and was good.

B

Four feet tall: if not halt. So then uh richard kennedy, who was at the historical or was at the.

B

Historical society of portland he located this um painting, which he thinks is 1938.

B

um And it shows the uh it's not very clear, but it definitely doesn't look like a brick, a brick.

B

Wall at that point in time, so I don't know which came for us, I'm thinking, I don't know that this.

B

Research is really hard so um and then I found this other painting. It's like a postcard, and this.

B

I'm sorry 19. Oh sorry,.

B

um This was a postcard and, as you can see, um the sheath house is not there.

B

So and again it looks more like the wall that we have now that's been covered in blind plaster.

B

B

um We're just going over some.

B

uh Capital improvement projects that we might be interested in having peter.

B

uh Look at um and then well, that's it. So there's really the other thing about this is I got.

B

B

How can I like to go to the next one? Will it or do I have to put him down.

A

No, it doesn't show that there's a next one. There is there's a lot more. I because.

A

Oh there it is okay, so this is just an extension as it goes down, you can see how.

B

And also whenever they did the road if they lifted the road, if it's a combination of the wall is sunk,.

B

Some and the road has been um brought up because of the pierce island bridge they didn't grade it.

B

They graded it, they see it curves and it the water just, runs off and goes into the right by the.

B

Stone wall as opposed to making a barrier or the other number of things that they could have done.

B

To prevent the runoff to go down in there and then we're also contending with sea level rises.

B

Which is not visible, which is underneath so presta park and strawberry bank have already done their.

B

Test pits and things like that to see where the water level is rising and how much and.

B

Things like that so before we could- and this is just I'm putting this out before looking at.

B

A project whether we should rebuild the wall, we should find out if we can move the law and what.

B

It's going to cost if we're going to spend a lot of money because we don't want in 70 years.

B

It to be sinking right back down or even quicker, because sea level is or the water table is rising.

B

So it's not as straightforward. What do we do and add to the can of worms, as I call it.

B

This is there's a dispute whether this is the oldest cemetery in the state. So if, if it's not.

B

We're we're second, so that's some value in you know. I don't know what it is in currency, but.

B

It's it's added to this whole thing, because that's when the state is going to be involved anyway, but.

B

This is a pretty significant historic place, which I also need to get on historic, registering so.

A

Yeah, so how do they visualize that by the oldest um records, no five records? No.

B

There are no 16 brave markers in here, but they know people were buried, but.

B

They were buried with wooden crosses, so back in the day when you know people just.

B

You know plowed over or paved over, or what have you um so 25 feet out? It involves that one and.

B

Because it's a cemetery inside it involves having permits and involving having a historic architect.

B

I mean archaeologists with us and all that, so what what we would test for would be the.

B

Soil conditions, because a number of people have said that this is will and if we do bring it up.

B

You know it's all filled so may not sustain a wall might have to be all kinds of additional things.

B

And also where the water level is, I've heard from people that have been working down in there.

B

In preston park that they wouldn't be surprised, a test pit would show two feet down that.

B

That's where the water level is so don't know, though it's all.

B

You don't know until you look so the other thing to be aware of is that there's very large utility.

C

um Pipes in the ground adjacent to that wall because of the that pump station right there.

B

So I mean it's really a big can of worms. You know what what's what and so again I we wanted.

B

Got I got a estimate from um what is it samsung lesson for 42 000 to dig the test pits and the.

B

Soil evaluation, which also includes we have they're saying we need permits. It- includes.

B

The archaeologists being on-site um all those things that would be a part.

B

Of it, it doesn't include the people to dig the test pits. It would have to be.

B

The dpw, so they they're not hiring anybody from the outside, so it was 42 000 just to get.

B

Everything done tested with the city um doing the digging, and you know there was really good chance.

B

That we could find um bones in this dig, so I don't know, do you know if they found anything when they.

B

Did when did those big uh in the 80s and then 60s when I first went in I this, I don't think there's.

A

Any record oh yeah, yeah. Let me put the bridge in I'm, going to put the pumpkin station in 63.

C

I think right, um so that's one of the big lines, so the line goes down mechanic. The cuts across.

C

Comes down marcy cuts across the liberty, pole, garden area. You know experimental gardens.

C

Diagonals across there to mechanic street goes down to the pumping station and turns in.

C

And the force main comes back out so the force you know force main is 24 inches. The.

C

The pipe going to see which one into the thing is 30 inches, I think and then there's a water.

C

Line through there as well gas line, I know I know this is a lot. It's a very tight area, yeah and.

B

So you throw in the fact that you know where the city is very conscientious about.

B

Sea water levels rising, it's I don't know, they said it was a doable project.

B

So that's on the table right now. As far as just that- and I guess I would ask peter for his.

B

Feedback or or my personal opinion at this point in time is, I wouldn't want to invest any more than.

B

Forty two thousand dollars to find out what is and isn't there and what we can and can't.

B

Do and then what's the intent just to raise the wall, yeah yeah, eventually yeah! If we, if we can.

B

I mean no matter what we do, we can't we can't just go in there and replace the wall. I think something.

C

Needs to be done, um the the quote we have here and I haven't had a chance to yeah. You know I just.

C

Thought it was, you know, subsurface investigation, an associated environmental, permitting services.

C

Proposal that is not a solution or that's not a what you should do. It is like here's.

C

The geotechnical, here's, the soils and here's the permitting you need to do work there so right it.

C

Doesn't come up with here's the design to do the work, no or the solution, the potential solution so.

C

But they can't give us a solution if they don't know what's down there right. No, it's.

C

It's necessary enabling work. uh I'm not saying you shouldn't! Do it, I'm just being clear that.

C

This you know this isn't the whole. Oh yeah, it's just this down down payment, yeah! No.

B

And does everybody understand that part of it that this is just to give us a picture of? What's.

B

Underground and what we can and can't do going forward and the state will be involved so.

A

Can I ask pete: is there anything that if we didn't disturb you know the underlying you know.

A

Conditions, because that's where all the money and the risk comes are there? Are there smaller.

A

Maybe not architecturally beautiful solutions to provide. You know some kind of stability if.

A

It doesn't make sense to do a bigger project. Is there a you know, something that's not ideal.

C

Isn't there a catch basin further down um yeah this around the corner, there's uh temporarily.

A

The reason the bricks aren't showing and then they did gun night uh on the walls was.

C

Because they were doing that less expensive right right, hold it hold it all together.

C

Hold it all together and I I've had some masons come and look yeah and and if they.

B

Just built on top of what was there just ripped down to the level of the street.

B

And rebuilt it, it would be sixty thousand dollars just to do that, and that would be.

B

Brick, it wouldn't have, and it wouldn't guarantee it doesn't do that that wouldn't continue and as.

B

Far as going up the side right next to pascal park or the garden, all of that, if you go down and look.

B

There's a big, broken patch off. You can see the original stone wall, but it's it's pulled away. So.

B

To go ahead and try to just throw on another layer and then super layer. The places that have the hole.

B

It's not going to solve the problem either because it doesn't have anything to hold on to anymore.

B

So it would be short of like trying to shoot in like the air, um not here, but the insulation.

B

There are some holes along there, you could shoot stuff in that way and then cover up the patch.

B

But again it's only a temporary solution and that is not cheap either. It makes me that this.

A

Could be just a spectacular, lovely spot and maybe worth the money once from no one's.

B

Whenever I go by- and I do quite often because I go down that way- um there are always people in there.

B

But I mean it's part of our history, so I mean I can imagine. I can imagine one.

B

So yeah, so that was whether to take step, one which would be the geotechnical, and you know we could.

A

Staff could take this estimate, assuming we have funding for it and then do our process to continue.

A

We have, we have options if they already know the area and they'd be a real advantage to.

A

Using affirms professional services right, so we have flexibility on that. We uh and I looked.

B

There weren't it was tough well, I should have just called peter's office and secretary and asked who.

B

They used, but um I looked other places too, and people there's just not enough people that are.

B

Interested in doing any of this work never mind, I specialize with this I mean because I don't.

B

Know these people- and they did that so right- that's why they were kind of they're currently.

C

They're currently under contract uh competitively selected, um so it.

A

Could be an it could be an amendment to their existing contract, something easy still bundle. It.

C

It'd be an amendment to their existing contract or additional work right.

B

But I even you know masons and anything else that we're looking at it I had all. I could do to get.

B

Pickering was the only one that was interested in coming out and looking at the wall at union.

B

Cemetery and my my guess would be that whatever they found over in prescott park and that other.

A

Proximity- and they were um it's all failed land anyway, so if they do one, they.

A

Have a pretty good idea of what to find on this one, no you're, absolutely right!.

A

That's what that's the incentive to start, however, water doesn't run that mess equally.

A

You know, through the whole area I mean you could find a perfectly dry spot.

B

In one spot and then three feet over find that water level is way up, but you're right so.

B

It's worth finding out what we have to work with, as opposed to trying to guess at it.

A

A

Oh all right, so the challenge.

C

It's a lower it's a lower location than the section of prescott park that we're working on.

C

So if you you know it's you can't. I mean it's a it's a reasonable assumption to say: hey. They.

C

Did something nearby, it could be similar and it may be similar. Unfortunately, the elevations in.

C

This corner in particular, um is susceptible to flooding uh when we have really high tides, the.

C

Water does come up and does reach into this area right from here. um Well, that difference.

A

Right there that bit tells me that there's something totally different happening in that.

A

Area, oh yeah, that pair is all the way to the corner or something yeah and yeah it. Just oh.

C

So there's that spot that you were talking about for the wall right there, but you can see it all.

C

Grades down into that corner, and they built up as you call they built all that up for the bridge.

C

So originally it probably ran down to the water. Probably um so it was probably a beautiful little.

C

Spot originally and plus right across the lake underneath the bridge, that's where last summer.

B

They almost lost everything over at the fishbeard, so.

B

So it's not a it's in this one thing where it was you.

B

And again they just threw that line covering yeah.

A

um So you want me to hit that yeah, please, um a smaller project.

B

Which would make a big difference would be. We could redo this entryway.

B

Not redo it but straighten it up, fix the um wrought iron. um Those kinds of things which would.

B

Again little things can make a big difference. All the headstones in there have been cleaned.

B

Like when I was down there the other day, some of them were much much wider.

B

And those flat tombs that were covered with moss, there's no moss on them anymore.

B

So that's this is something that's doable um again yeah. Now we come to south street, and so we own.

B

And I, when I say we, the city owns that that whole facade right there in front of um cotton cemetery.

C

C

I think it's it's in discussion.

C

I don't I don't believe so, but we.

C

It actually would be a good picture to see from this is.

A

Anybody behind those doors or is it just happening in here.

A

Anybody has to leave right at five o'clock.

B

We can always pick another day that mean right. You don't have to see, you don't have to wait.

A

Until october, if you want to pick another date in september, we'd like to get the cip items in.

A

By the end of september september 30th, so if you wanted to continue this discussion because you've.

A

Laid out a fair amount of good information here to set another meeting for you know a week or two.

A

From now yeah and uh continue the discussion so currently, your your cip allocation is.

C

A generic um historic cemetery improvements, if you want.

C

You know and you last year you asked for 40 000. If you want to continue on.

C

That way and bundle these projects that'll give you the most flexibility on adjusting.

C

Priorities, if you guys, you know, start the project and say well, it's going to cost way too much to be.

C

Able to do this and we don't want it. So if you put in a cip item, that's very specific.

C

That says we want to replace this door or this fence, or whatever we find out after the fact.

C

That well geez, that's really very difficult. We can't do it again. It's not practicable.

C

If you've got cfp money for that particular project, only that becomes very restrictive.

C

Versus historic cemetery improvements gives you flexibility as a committee to say: okay, our.

C

Priority is adjusted a little bit. We'd rather spend the money in this direction, so I would.

C

I find that if you have flexibility, it's better, you as a committee, um obviously have the choice.

C

To do it, however, you want yeah. I know I agree with you because I was just gonna at the end.

B

Of this say, we're not anywhere near ready to make commitment to pretty much anything.

B

Because we have no idea what costs are and, as you you're all my witnesses, peter had like.

B

We're not sure who who owns that, but it was in the 2013 assessment. So that's been the guideline.

B

For everything that we've talked about in here and even in past meetings, so so can you take this down.

B

To please down in the wall, that's on the other side of this. Do you have another picture there.

B

I do have a picture of it, but since we have this wall right here, this was just made out of.

B

Ravel rebel leftover or whatever got beaten up and they made a stone wall there. I don't know how old.

A

That google image is that wall is in much worse condition than that yeah I mean I have.

C

Image capture you know, and then this goes all the way down back. So when the kids run down that it's.

C

Eroding and the headstones are yeah problematic along that edge on that edge too, but not only that.

B

Does who is in charge of if we wanted to clean up all the junk that's down in between the top.

B

And the bottom it would have maybe would be responsible for that because yeah I do have.

B

Some pictures of where you can and just what peter said that the uh you want to go to yeah.

B

Oh, let's go to the chimney! Well, we'll I'll I'll point out the chimney, but if we're not sure.

B

That's another small project that.

A

While he's trying to find that just know that what we do is when we've got this historic cemetery.

A

Improvements, we generally put some description, and so it may be that, from the conversation that this.

A

Committee has maybe we update the description because we've learned a little bit right.

A

And have begun to flush out. You know, for example, the the point of braves wall challenges, and so I.

A

Think you know that's something that we could look at and the question would be.

A

Do we look for in that in the fy 24 budget? Is that number still 40, 000 or based on everything.

A

You know you're learning and you want to advocate for whether you make a recommendation that that.

A

Number, you know increase right, so I think that's. What we're trying to do is give you.

A

Enough information to figure out you know, because we city council has to balance all the priorities.

A

And this is a part of your process is to figure out what is the priority, and what is you know what.

A

Kind of range: do you think it's appropriate to ask for you know, given that so just know, we could also.

A

Work on that blurb, as we've begun to identify different types of projects, they need attention.

A

So where's the 107 sitting right now, 107 thousands in the capital funds um designated capital funds.

C

What's that no fourth,.

C

But if you put it there, it's it's encumbered and set aside for this activity. Historic cemeteries,.

C

It's not encumbered it's it's! It's designated segregated. um This chimney goes down into the.

A

That's a receiving tune. That's not a.

A

With no predations, it's been listed as a crematory underneath it in some other room, but that gray.

B

Building or the tan building that belongs to catholic church or did, if he's doing, research.

A

I don't want to state what I already think. I know we can respectfully disagree. So, okay, I was always.

A

Under the beliefs that george ward acquired that obstruction jay bird would through him.

A

And my understanding is that they continue to maintain it and it's a tacit agreement that.

C

As they maintain it, they're allowed to use it not whether they own it or not. So you know so.

B

Obviously, there's some research, oh so who owns it? It's you know, michael believes, it's the.

C

The funeral home and no, I think your explanation is probably correct, but george ward died in 1973.

A

There's a wooden, tiered storage structure. Inside of it, you can store 60 caskets in one right.

B

But uh but you said that they can use it so great place to build condos on board.

A

That's back when everyone was, there was no cremations.

A

You died in the winter, you wanted them too. My grandfather went one of those back in the.

B

Days yeah, it would be full and the other one as well, but so are you saying the city does own. It.

A

They don't know, we don't know, okay. That is that's what I have been told, but as we find out.

C

um Sometimes it's just you know, you know myth history, you know it kind of blends into one.

B

And let's put it out there that cemeteries have never been a priority and I'm not blaming anyone.

B

Or anything they've never been on top of the list, so handshakes and all that kind of stuff.

B

Is essentially taking care of our cemeteries over all these years, they have been out there.

A

Yeah removed it from time right, but I'm saying in general all our cemeteries. It's always been a.

B

Handshake, you do this and what have you so anyway, that goes down into the vault underneath and.

B

um It does you know if we're going to keep it, we it should be capped the proper way and the.

B

Thing in the 2013 it says the bricks are soft and should be repointed, but I don't see anything.

B

Well, he said something about repointing the bricks, but I didn't see where things were.

B

Falling apart, particularly so anyway, so that's on the end. The top of it is a membrane covering.

A

Bolter coal, tar, which needs to be addressed also so again, we'll put that on the burner until we.

B

Have more research information, but those are all things out there, so um yep next one and.

A

This is what the edge of the cemetery and going down to the playing field.

B

As you can go into the next one and there were walls there at one point.

B

And that's one of the places peter referred to there's a headstone.

B

And the erosion actually starts way up here and goes down through the ropes.

A

Oh, the griffins, all the kids in the neighborhood.

A

That little small ground, oh, is that what that was there and mike told him never to do it.

B

And then you can see this loss and then it puts okay. This is a turn of the century, um just to show.

B

You that the turn style was back there at night in 1900. This is this, is, I think, it's a hymn piercing.

B

Painted this really [ __ ], and this is puddle goth. So that's why I brought the.

B

Map in I don't know which part of this is, but according to that map, the water went up almost.

B

All the way to it's not historically correct, because the waters looks clean.

A

So that a thunderbolt? uh No, no, it's not it's a sailboat. You know where the ice skating rink is.

A

In the winter that water went up on that wait, yeah and yeah, that's washington, street and wider. Oh.

B

So that's what- and this is where my grandparents grew up and puddled up.

B

It was, I was born in 51, so it was filled in then like 19 points.

B

And that's a country picture of pleasant um street cemetery that really hasn't.

B

Changed the looks except somebody's planted all kinds of stuff in the years.

A

Yeah, but that one's definitely yeah.

A

Yes, uh we, I think we sent it out, but um the tree, maybe greenery and trees.

B

um Consented to or agreed to there are eight. I think there are eight um fibroblades.

B

Thank you abravades, that when you look at pleasant street, you see that that wall was also um covered.

B

In mine plaster and then above it, there are eight arbor bodies that are just what 30 feet: tall 30.

B

Feet tall: well, you can't see the cemetery as you go by so uh after some discussion at the meeting.

B

um They agreed that they would start out with cutting down every other.

B

Tree washington and then we would take it from there, because they're 180. they're, so intergrown.

B

That it could be that they're going to be stripes of beer, so we'll have one cypress and it'll.

B

Just be totally bare on two sides, so sometimes multiple books. Yes, people were afraid that the.

B

Birds wouldn't have a home and there wouldn't be enough shade on the sidewalk. So what are we going.

B

They were never made to chances are that somebody planted those for the exact reason of what's there.

B

They didn't want to look over and see the cemetery.

A

B

To start to see what it would.

A

Day after our next meeting and next wednesday thursday, where are we on the list wednesday.

B

You know, do you know how to get put on the you know when they would do that project.

A

When they catching right up on, I'm not sure I'd have to talk to them.

B

Yeah I asked one of them: were they down on middle school? You know we didn't post those things. We.

C

Technically were supposed to post the trees before they make money, yeah, typically yeah. That's nice.

A

And publicly posted yeah means you put a little sign on it, saying the tree's slated to be removed.

C

um Please come speak to them again, so those probably won't disappear.

C

Yeah, well, we could ask them um peter. Would they.

C

Yeah, what they've been doing, whether it's I mean a couple hours.

A

I think they're catching up. They took that silva maple on lincoln, that's gone.

B

And and granted these are not dangerous, so I don't know how many more dangerous trees.

B

Might be sitting out there, I've got a ton of them coming out, yeah.

A

That merida is dry. I can't tell you that one of them- so yes, I'm going to be a cognitive time if.

A

You want to look for another date, while people are all right, I was just going to say: is next thursday.

A

Did anybody know what the calendar is next thursday.

A

Morning that would not work for me. Okay, all right. The following is the 22nd.

A

At that point, oh okay, that's I thought we would be coming close if we weren't that far out.

A

I am almost totally unavailable the last two weeks of september, but I consumed them. Okay,.

A

But what I what I wish you would do it wouldn't mind it if you would take these and give them.

A

To people who didn't come, the last this time, yeah yeah and then you know and give them to.

A

People that show up the next time and then I'll talk about it. You know okay over soon,.

A

All right so we'll be proposing um the 22nd you don't have to be. On a thursday I mean.

A

uh Well, that's what I was going to say um so I mean two weeks isn't going to make.

B

Because this process is going to go on for a while anyway, well, we need to get the.

C

Csp aspect of it nailed down soon right um once jess, and I would have is there seems.

C

To be a number of projects, you're interested in what we do oftentimes is we put together.

C

What's called a backlog of work and then we put a statement in there saying you know.

C

Here's a backlog of work in no particular order projects will get done according to.

C

Funds and potentials and potential synergy with other projects. um You know, for example, the bridge.

C

Project is slated for 10 years out. That's going to be a major major effort in that that corner there.

C

um Which was going to be probably synced up with the pumping station upgrade um so that.

C

Area would lend itself well because it's going to be a ton of archaeological work, there's going to.

C

Be a ton of geotechnical work, there's going to be a lot of effort to do all that work, it would be a.

C

Good opportunity to take care of that wall and potentially protect look at ways that we could.

C

Protect that area from inundation, um although a hundred years yeah for the flooding um so.

C

All right, that's ten! That's you know, 10 years out, which means 15 members out.

C

So not my professional career.

B

uh September 22nd.

A

All right, hopefully, conference roommate will be available I'll. Let you guys know.

A

We've still got a room, yep yeah we'll do that we'll work on what we can do is take the rest.

A

Of the agenda that you didn't finish and we can yeah or I mean you can keep going now, I.

A

Was just cognizant that you were going to start to lose folks and that's that's fine.

B

I think we've given them a lot of information, so it's amazing, yeah and then you're welcome.

A

Oh nice, thank you that.

A

This is the amazing vlog.

C

Thank you so much. Thank you guys so much for coming bye-bye.

A

C

Oh, that's just stopping our videos.