City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Fee Committee, 3 Feb 2022

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From YouTube: 3.7.2022 Fee Committee

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3.7.2022 Fee Committee

A

All right welcome to the march 7th fee committee meeting. um Just real quick note: the fee committee.

A

Has four members two counselors counselor taber and councillor denton? They are the voting members.

A

And the city manager and the finance rep, which I am the finance rep- um we have a heavy agenda.

A

So if we could start with the acceptance of the meeting of may 25th 2001. move, we accept.

B

Those minutes, second, all right, perfect and now to opening marks by the legal department.

C

Well, first off, let me get this mask off.

C

uh I'm here because andrew asked me to be here uh and I the purpose uh was to just kind of have a.

C

General discussion of revenue raising capabilities of the municipality, with a particular focus on.

C

What the fee committee could do, or not do in terms of its recommendations to the city council.

C

Thinking about uh I've concluded this morning that there's about four different ways that.

C

Municipalities are in new, hampshire uh can raise money first, one, the obvious one is taxes such as.

C

Real estate taxes, automobile related taxes, the the thing about taxes is, they need to have very.

C

Expressed state legislative authority to do it if there isn't a statute, saying that a municipality.

C

Can implement a particular tax, then it can't and a tax would be distinct and, generally speaking,.

C

Those state legislative acts will also specify what that tax is. The real estate tax, for example,.

C

Has to be based upon a proportion of value of real estate compared to other real estate in the city.

C

So compare taxes with the next. The next item, which is municipalities, can implement fees now.

C

Fees differ from taxes in that, while taxes are actually a revenue, raising concept fees are.

C

Limited in that revenues can only be raised equal to the amount that it costs to operate. The program.

C

For which the free is being levied.

C

So that taking a generous view, the highest fee that you could have or you could recommend.

C

For any different program would be, if you added up all of the city time and expenses.

C

That it takes to to operate the program for which you're going to collect the fee and.

C

And you divide that by the number of people who are going to be subject to this fee.

C

Then the highest fee is going to be to each one of those people is going to be roughly the.

C

The product of the mathematical calculation.

C

Fees, therefore, are always less than taxes, because you're not.

C

Really allowed to make money from a fee, you just recover your costs. The third.

C

Revenue raising concept that can apply to municipality in new hampshire is.

C

You can enter contracts now. It was actually this one that caused me to be here today, because.

C

Council denton had suggested that there might be a fee associated with.

C

Restaurants, that did business on city property, but did not comply with the composting ordinance right.

C

So it was in thinking about what it was that he was really asking for and exchanging.

C

Correspondence with him about it um that I came to the uh belief that what he's asking.

C

uh To be considered here is not a fee, not really a cost. That would recover uh not if not an amount of.

C

Money that will recover your cost of implementing any particular program. What he's really talking.

C

About is a contract. What he's saying is any restaurant that wants to use city property would.

C

Have to pay us to do it and the amount they would have to pay us in addition to the the amount that.

C

The city council has already established uh would include an additional amount, that's paid and.

C

That amount is in the nature of an agreement. It's a contract between the city and the restaurants.

C

Which the city would basically say we will let you use our sidewalk and here's why you have to.

C

Pay the amount that the city council has already said, plus a further amount. If you don't follow.

C

Our composting ordinance and the thing about these contract form as a revenue raising concept is that.

C

You do not require specific, enabling legislation. The amount is not set by any state law or local.

C

Law, it is basically the product of negotiation. uh If you said to the restaurants, if you don't.

C

Comply with our composting ordinance, you're gonna have to pay ten thousand dollars for a.

C

They don't have to pay the ten thousand dollars, but they don't get to use the sidewalk either.

C

It's a negotiation, it's a it's a contract and uh and then so in the case of the.

C

um That fee, the the amount of money that will be charged to um individuals that conducted.

C

Business on city property, but didn't comply with the composting ordinance that is within your.

C

Authority to make a recommendation, whatever amount, you think, serves the public, good and uh and the.

C

People that would pay that amount have the option of just not paying at all or not using the city.

C

Property, so that's like a contract kind of a revenue raising idea. uh Sometimes this gets used.

C

In uh in enforcement matters, uh in cases where we have uh brought an action, let's say against the.

C

Developer for building without a permit we, the city, will offer to settle that case.

C

We'll withdraw our action against you if you pay some amount now. The developer in that case isn't.

C

Obligated to pay anything unless they agree to unless they make the contract with the city.

C

And they they often will because it's uh to their business uh advantage to settle the case by paying.

C

An amount of money rather than litigating it through to the bitter end, for example,.

C

The last or the fourth kind of way that a municipality in new hampshire can raise.

C

Money is through penalties. um Penalties, as the name suggests, are punishments.

C

And in order to assess a penalty against somebody, municipality in new hampshire has to have once.

C

Again, enabling legislation the state has to say you can you can assess penalties and the.

C

The principal way that that gets done is that city city councils have the authority to.

C

To adopt ordinances with penalty provisions and anyone who violates that that penalty.

C

Violates the ordinance is subject to the penalty provision and the state has given.

C

The city, all cities and towns, the authority to establish a penalty of up to a thousand dollars.

C

Per violation of the ordinance, in fact, that's what it's called violation. That's the level of.

C

Quasi crime- and uh there were some major- uh the major limitation, however, is that in order.

C

To collect a penalty in the way that I've just described there needs to be a conviction in court.

C

So uh the city council could say a penalty of a thousand dollars.

C

You know every time you build without a permit, but in fact you have to convince a judge to actually.

C

Assess that penalty after a conviction so in terms of revenue raising for the municipality, this last.

C

Method, the penalty is, uh is pretty limited, use and is subject to uh some serious obstacles.

C

So those are really the ways that municipalities can raise money. uh The.

C

This, of course, is the fee committee, which, in general, has had the responsibility over the years.

C

Of determining fees, and, of course the fee, as we said, is the amount of money that it's.

C

Reasonably takes the city to recover for its cost of administering any particular program.

C

Now that function of the fee committee, I think.

C

Has kind of been expanded a little bit kind of a creeping expansion and uh and uh council of.

C

Denton's questions is a perfect example of that, because what uh you would be asked to opine on.

C

In response to his question is not really a fee, it's not really the amount of money necessary for.

C

The city to implement the program of having restaurants on sidewalks, um it's really a a.

C

Contract question: how much would you want to charge restaurants that do that.

C

um But don't comply with the composting ordinance and the feed committee. It is, I think, kind of an.

C

Appropriate body to consider the question, even though the question doesn't actually involve a fee.

C

So so there's my patch I'm happy to answer any questions. Anybody has actually is there.

A

Any questions for bob or we can go right into the composting which is next on the agenda. No.

D

Questions. Thank you. The provision that fees are to cover costs recover costs is that state statute.

B

Yes, yes, that's that's, uh there's a lot of case law well, state statute and case law from the supreme.

C

Court right, that's that's where it is, does it have to be monetary cost? No, it wouldn't have to be.

A

More questions all right right into the composting, so I don't know how you want to go with it. You.

A

Want to go ahead and ask your questions or I'll gladly give a quick one over the world for anyone.

D

Who's not tracking this, so uh the main push for me on composting over the past. I guess four of the.

D

Prior six years has been because green food waste is the third largest source of greenhouse gas.

D

Emissions because it creates methane, so there's been numerous incentives pushed for the city to.

D

Support either residents who compost, whether it be with a rebate for curbside composting or for.

D

In this case, restaurants, who choose to compost and composting, is a lot more expensive than many might.

D

Think it could cost over a thousand dollars a month over two plus years ago, when I proposed the.

D

Single use disposable, ordinance for city property. There was a number of things that were required.

D

One is that restaurants, essentially compost and the goal then, and it was limited outside dining.

D

I think there's probably six restaurants is that all of them would comply at some point.

D

Since covid have been there's far more outdoor dining, obviously I'm a huge supporter of it.

D

And ideally, in my mind when covid passes, outdoor dining will remain and at that point.

D

All the restaurants would be required to compost, and that would be done by them being.

D

Either I guess through contract, not through a fee, but it would cost just as much for them not to.

D

Compost as a wood compost, however, we're not there, and it was clear at the city council meeting from.

D

Two weeks ago, that the council is not looking to impose that much of a cost on restaurants.

D

Operating downtown with that in mind, I still would like to enter into some sort of contract.

D

With the restaurants who are not composting, um I'm not sure if council chamber, you have any thoughts.

D

On an amount, what I had originally proposed and didn't go through it at the last meeting.

D

Was simply whatever the amount that uh the council decided for all restaurants? Half it for those.

D

That actually compost and then charge a fee to those that don't which would make them whole.

D

I do think that would be too much money and I would like to see something assessed. Ideally.

D

On a monthly basis, in case they decide hey, we are actually going to start composting.

D

In that instance, and I'll gladly take any thoughts or feedback or.

B

Some of our restaurants downtown do compost now, some don't thank you for.

B

Researching what it does cost, I was surprised at how much it costs.

B

I think, philosophically I'd like those that choose not to compost to have to pay a little extra.

B

In the negotiated contract, but I'm also sensitive to.

B

It's easier for a large restaurant actually to compost. At least those are the examples I know.

B

And it's harder for the smaller restaurants, so I'm sensitive to the burden on them.

B

But you know if we're in the range of 200 or something like that, I think that's would.

D

That be for the season or for the per month. I would think of that for the season, but we can.

B

Have dialogue about it what's easier for the city, would it be, could it be done monthly or would it.

D

Be better just to do this season of outdoor dining just one flat fee, one in the contract.

E

Well, as I understand it, the way view permit is being stood up, there's an option for a payment.

E

Plan of two payments: okay, one halfway through the season july, I'm going to turn look at july.

E

And then one at the uh at the outset, so would two hundred dollar payments.

D

That work for so two 200 or 200 100 to 100, so we would just add a line.

A

On the fee schedule to, if you do not compost, it will be.

A

About 200 per season is that what you're envisioning yes, so how this works is is.

A

You you too will approve any fees that today and when the budget book gets published. This will.

A

Be an uh appendix to the back of the budget and when the budget gets passed in june, this will go.

A

In front of the whole council and they will vote on the whole fee, there would be further debate.

A

Right so that if they had any questions at that time, it would come up at that time.

A

So if you both agree to that, we would add and bob would that, be. That's okay, if we add add a line on.

A

Here yeah, it would go exactly the way you just said and in practice, as a practical matter, you.

C

Would tell every restaurant to want to have food service on city? Sidewalks are on city property,.

C

That, I guess you would ask them if they're going to compost and if they are that's the end of it.

C

If they are not going to compost, then you would tell them there will be an additional.

C

200 fee collected in two payments, as you said and andrew, I think we should express it as a.

B

Failure to abide by and and our ordinance number that.

C

The other thing I would recommend is: if that's the way it happens.

C

Not everybody is always honest with the city, and uh so it might be a good idea.

C

To do little spot checks and see if, in fact, the restaurants that said they were composting are.

C

Composting, rather can we weigh in with an alternative, and if you like it I'll.

E

Tell you who to give the credit to, and if you don't like it it's my idea, how's that.

E

Rather than penalize people who don't do something, do you reward people who do do something.

E

By taking it off their bill, I don't know how he, if that was an option. I'd prefer that.

E

That becomes an enforcement and a administrative thing.

B

um I'm assuming, since the city manager proposed it you're comfortable with the implementation.

B

But philosophically I I like it so essentially would you do 1700 right, you'd do 1700.

E

Right but then that in and of itself needs a council vote to amend, correct.

A

No because it's on it's on the fee schedule now and that's in the case of a parking spot just.

A

You've already enacted the fee for this season, and it is in the fee schedule now as.

A

Current, so I don't know how, if this goes all the way till it's not going to be enacted till.

A

June, which makes it effective july 1? How do you do that then? Then you'd impact that july one.

F

Second, the second payment that assumes everybody takes advantage of two payments.

A

I could say at the I don't know.

B

um Setting aside the implementation.

B

You know, I think, I think.

B

Counselor denton and I are in agreement about moving to rewarding right, correct, so.

B

How do we change our last vote of the council or do we need to.

C

Because thick you could do it, you could do it tonight. You could do it easily, just by adding.

C

A 200 fee to every um city, uh public realm use of arrest by a restaurant.

C

To be waived, if the restaurant engages in composting one one motion, one vote done. We just.

C

All right and within then, then that would time that would make the fee schedule in the budget.

A

Book and it would be there as that and then go through the regular budget process, cost city.

B

Management: okay, thank you, everyone for that all right. um By the way that was peter rice's idea,.

F

All right, we'll go to the you suggested, go to the fire department, which is on page 33 of your.

A

Schedule thanks bob.

E

Do we have uh chief germain and deputy chief powell here.

A

Go ahead just go ahead and start talking about your fee change there. So we just.

G

Have um one fee change, I believe, um certainly just one related to fire prevention, and that is.

G

Last year we instituted a hot work permit, which is when people do work.

G

That creates sparks or use open flames such as welding um roof work and that sort of thing.

G

Is pretty common in other communities, so we instituted that last year and like many things.

G

You know we try and tweak it as things become apparent as to how they work well or don't work.

G

Well and it became apparent that we needed a longer permit, so we added a one-year permit.

G

For some of the larger projects in town there's many large projects that take more than a year and.

F

It just was a little bit cumbersome for them and for us to have them pull a new permit. Every month.

G

So that really was the change and we um we went from dollars for a week, two hundred dollars for.

G

A month, um and then we added a year one for five hundred, so um pat in that third line, that is in.

E

Gray, it should say per year instead of per week for five, so we don't have that, but yeah we're.

G

Looking at early so it is, there should be 500 for the year 100 for a month and 50 for a day.

E

We don't have 50 for a day, but we, oh I'm sorry we do that, didn't change. So it's not in great right.

E

But you're deleting the hot work permit per week right we're changing that to a.

G

Month for 100 and then we're adding a year option, so your choices, if you were going.

E

To get permitted as a day a month or a year yeah, so some jobs might be just a day got it.

A

Any questions counselors on that or on the fire altogether. Just on that yep, I cannot um do you.

A

Approve, would you take a vote, say I'll I'll move that we approve those. Second, all right.

A

And the counselor had additional questions if you want to go ahead so, regarding the hotel fee.

D

It says it's one hundred dollars annually and then per room is two dollars and fifty cents.

D

Giving increasing costs across the city, I was wondering if that still reflects accurately.

D

The amount of effort gone in or if that could be justified to be increased. That's a good question.

G

So the first year that we did that uh with the hotels was um started in 2020.

G

And because we had never inspected existing hotels before it was, it was quite cumbersome.

G

Because we're going into places that hadn't been inspected and some have been open for decades.

G

And so we found a lot of problems, so it's cumbersome not just for us, but also for the hotels.

G

You know happen to fix whatever it is that we find so it's it's possible that we probably.

G

Use more resources than what we raised in fees, but I think moving forward that the numbers.

G

That we have are pretty good because having just inspected them, we expect to find fewer problems.

G

You know, we've fixed the problems that have.

G

Been there for years and now it's just a matter of maintenance, so I'm gonna restate.

D

That back, if I can, the um the current amount, there reflects what you're expecting it to actually cost.

D

This time, yes, okay, I mean what I essentially did was I looked at what other communities.

G

Charged and took that, but I think it's pretty close to what what it would cost. Thank you.

F

Any further questions all right, good with the fire department. I was wondering if we.

A

Could bring the police in real, quick, the the counselor had a real quick question.

E

Thank you, yeah yeah, all right.

D

Go ahead. Thank you. Captain um there's been a lot more awareness recently across the country.

D

Regarding how fees are negatively impacting some demographics more than others, I have no idea if.

D

The police department or the city or anyone tracks the kind of information, but just looking at the.

D

Fees that are listed do we have any statistics again. I just want to make sure there's no.

D

Disproportionate effect on one group over another, so the fees that you're speaking of primarily are.

H

Alarm fees, so any private, residence or business that has an alarm would be in that category. So.

H

You're, basically, looking at at two different uh two different categories, whether it's a private.

H

Homeowner or whether it's a business, whether it's a residential alarm or a business alarm,.

H

We have um first three false alarms. These are for false alarms, so.

H

You would be allowed in a calendar year or it's run by fiscal year. Three free, false alarms, meaning.

H

That the officers were dispatched to the alarm, the alarm is deemed to be an accident or false or.

H

Otherwise, not a real problem uh and then on the fourth. The fee is imposed and then it subsequently.

H

Goes up each uh each time, there's a false alarm after that, as far as a breakdown between you so.

H

You really have two categories there, whether it's a private residence or whether it's a business so.

H

Those are the two demographics that we speak of. um I don't have. I could find a breakdown, as perhaps.

H

Maybe karen knows a little bit better as far as where we customarily impose our fee more.

H

Given that we get a vast majority of our alarms to businesses and not residences, I would suspect that.

H

Our businesses are feed uh significantly more than private residences. I was going to say. Excuse me, I.

I

Looked at last year, last fiscal years and out of 1016 calls 25 of them were residents. Oh wow.

J

Of those 25, eight were voided calls, meaning that the officer didn't arrive on scene.

F

14 were allowed under that three allowed calls and three were billed. So all the remaining ones.

K

Were businesses and a lot of those were, you know, untrained staff tripping off the alarm um wildlife.

F

um Etc, so, thank you yeah. I was my fear and there was nothing to base it on was. Let's say there were.

D

Far more billings at gosling meadows, then in the south end, but sounds that's not the.

D

Case so no thank you yep. All right, thanks, any more questions, all right. Thank you. Okay,.

A

Thank you both all right. The next is inspection department, shaun t wolfe, page 19.,.

L

So we are only proposing one fee increase this year, which would be for commercial roofing.

L

Which would be a hundred dollars for every permit for a commercial roofing job and historically.

L

Portsmouth does not charge for roofing at all. um It's not actually required an apple permit.

L

Application which does go against the state building code because roofing is, is a job that.

L

Does in fact require a permit by law, somehow that was missed. So we like to add that back in, but the.

L

You know the primary reason that we want to see uh not only an application but a fee, because.

L

We've had several situations where and by and large your flat commercial roofs accommodate.

L

Either gas-fired or electrical powered rooftop units we've come across several that the roofers.

L

Have taken it upon themselves to disconnect and reconnect gas and electric, and we have gone.

L

After the fact, as a propane leak, or there was a breaker script and we went onto the roof.

L

And realized, in fact, that this was a brand new roof job that was done. We didn't know about it,.

L

And, as a result, the unlicensed trays disconnected and reconnected gas or electric so.

L

Safety and also the hundred dollars really is.

L

um Right in line with you know the administrative costs associated with with filing the permit and.

L

Then the inspector's time to go out there and do the job and enter in their inspection.

B

So we have to do this to comply with the law. This is really not a choice correct, but the.

L

Feed the fee does not have to be assessed by law, there's no requirement that a fee is charged so.

L

We're proposing the fee just to cover to cover our costs associated.

D

I have a broader question not pertinent to and maybe either you andrew or karen could.

D

Better answer this, but if we wanted to waive fees, are we allowed to do that for certain.

D

Things I wouldn't waive any fee without council approval, okay,.

E

I'm not even looking at the attorney. I don't know what the attorney's doing so the time to do that.

D

Would be when we vote on the fees and as part of the budget, I want to bring forward waiving fees.

A

Like what, what is your thought there's several things in here, so the overall picture is.

D

A number of these things apply if someone goes to install a solar array or a.

D

Electric vehicle charger, just in general,.

D

Is if we waived some of those they might add up to being 500 or more so just incentivizing people.

D

To do that to be rewarding good behavior, but this isn't the place and I'm fine.

A

I guess during the budget you could uh ask to add it I mean. Can I put shanti on the spot shanti what.

E

Do you see in other communities? What do you think is happening, so I mean there's a few.

L

Things that I see with that right um one is: it does kind of go against some of the goals and.

L

Objectives that the council has laid out for us, which would be to maintain financial stability, so.

L

One way to maintain maintain finance disability would be perhaps to increase fees and not to.

L

Waive them all together, so there would be essentially we'd be doing plan review.

L

Administrative work and inspections, the city would be donating that right, we'd be doing them for free.

L

Because um and then it would be really difficult to project and balance. The budget I mean do have.

L

Analytics that would tell me how many many split heat pumps we did, how many solar arrays.

L

We did, and I could tell you you know just how much revenue permit revenue we would.

L

Be losing and how that will go against our proposed budget. I understand incentivizing.

L

Maybe there's other ways to incentivize but to pull it out of the inspections budget.

L

We have to be call, I would be cautious about doing that. You know, could you do that? Obviously, not now.

D

But come budget time just let us know roughly how much what you said cost whether it be solar rays.

D

Or split heat pumps, I can do that absolutely, maybe I'm going in the wrong direction. Counselor, but.

E

Perhaps the fact that shanti's here and we have a plan moving forward now that we're caught up maybe.

E

We're getting at the root of your or toward the root of your issue, which is incentivizing people.

E

To do the right thing um and not have the excuse of well they're backed up, and I they take too long.

E

I don't know, I think, the strategy that shanti's already employed in the first three months that.

E

He's been here to get caught up and to be proactive should hopefully help and motivate.

E

People to do the right thing, because there there is now a a decent process in place. So maybe, if.

L

That was the question right was was how do we encourage the residents contractors developers.

L

To work with inspection department and be proactive in obtaining and applying for these.

L

Permits, I feel like we have gone, we've made tremendous strides in the last several months.

L

Towards that end, so I mean I hear it every day and so the you know the 100 permit fee.

L

That would be in place. Perhaps for a solar array is really, I feel, fairly insignificant with a.

L

Maybe a twenty thousand dollar system, but on our end it's very significant because it does allow.

L

Our budget projections to hold true with what we need in order to keep this department running.

L

You know so that's fair, um yeah, okay, but I will put together those numbers for you. Thank you. Stop.

D

Curiosity: okay, all right a motion to accept is uh the original change. Yes, so moved. Second,.

B

All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for catching up the background.

L

Pleasure terrific turn around yeah yeah, okay uh recreation department. Good afternoon. It's 40.

E

Welcome todd uh so the general purpose of the recreation department fee changes are.

M

That most fees have not been adjusted for multiple years and we are just trying to bring ourselves.

M

In line with industry standards, uh while still continuing to offer substantial savings for our.

M

Residents I'm taking into account uh increased, you know, utilities and, and things like that, so.

M

As you'll see, spinnaker point is just a slight increase to membership fees uh for the year.

M

And then the indoor pool is a special revenue fund that the city will be taking.

M

Back over from the nonprofit sip, and so we we do need uh increased revenue to continue that to keep.

M

The pool, successful and operational there's been no changes at the pool in 11 years and.

M

So this those numbers reflect a six percent increase across the board for all.

M

All memberships, we also increased the per hour per hour, pool rental fee to match local area pools.

M

Because we were substantially lower than other local pools and then finally, the boat launch.

M

Is just a a small increase for non-resident season pass holders.

D

Any questions again, I have a general question not specific to those and.

D

The basis for this question is working at the shipyard. I know. There's military families there.

D

And there's no pool there and it dawned on me: would it be possible to waive fees for.

D

Military and military dependents who want to go use the pool versus charging them the.

D

Two dollars as non-residents for the outdoor pool. Yes, um I mean it could be something that.

M

We can look into absolutely I'd, be a little concerned with the um amount. I guess I'd have.

M

To learn more about how many people that we would think would actually utilize that, but.

M

I think it's something that could definitely be yeah if you could look into that right.

A

All right um a motion to accept uh recreation, changes.

A

I'll still move. Second, all right. Thank you todd. Thank you. Thank you.

A

uh The next is public works, page 35, 36 37. We have a number of changes uh this year.

N

The first one is the memorial bridge lighting request, uh bringing it up for 50 dollars to 75.

N

uh The initial fee was set when we had really not much experience operating uh the facility.

N

uh And the in the operation of the lighting- and um it does take uh some time to manage the requests.

N

um Three different people touch those requests before they are.

N

Actually able to implement and staff has to actually.

N

Make sure the switches are flipped to have it work? um Yes, it's remote oftentimes, but it's.

N

Still time it takes so, uh we've proposed to adjust that from 50 to 75 for this year.

N

The next item is related to excavation permits and it's not the the fee for.

N

Excavation itself, it's it's a it's a deposit which we want to use as incentive for the.

N

People doing the excavations to follow up in a prompt manner to address the.

N

The excavations they've completed and the intent is to to refund the deposit.

N

When they successfully complete the excavation restoration and that's a it's supposed to be a 500.

N

To do that, we've found that contractors don't often reply to a time in a timely manner and.

N

We feel like having a little hold on. It will give us the ability to hold it and if they don't do it.

N

We can go ahead and use that money and do the restoration in lieu of that.

N

Flagging permits are something that we haven't adjusted uh since 2014 we're proposing to bring.

N

The traditional flagging permit, which is a five-day or a five-day turnaround to from 25 to 50.

N

And the expedited uh permit from 50 to 75 the permits flagging permits require a significant.

N

Amount of staff time to review the detouring and the various things associated with traffic.

N

Patterns and safety, uh so we feel that this reflects uh the additional costs that we've.

N

We're incurring now um the next item is, is a new uh fee item uh crack ceiling, um this the dpw.

N

Recently purchased a crack ceiling machine. um This is crack ceilings where you break the pavement.

N

uh Through excavation and leaves a seam uh there, which allows water to get in- and this.

N

Time of year, especially uh the freeze thaw cycle is destructive to the roadway crack. Sealing allows.

N

Us to tighten up the system, so they get less water getting underneath the pavement popping it out.

N

We would not be using this uh unless somebody does not um have the ability to do it themselves and.

N

We would come in um to do it. The intent isn't to go out and start a crack sealing business.

N

It's more just to address the vague, the vagaries of occasional person not following through they.

N

Don't do their work and then you know we can recoup the moneys associated with it.

N

The last item is uh recycling bins. In the past we had grants to offset the costs associated.

N

With recycling bins, those grant monies have um have not they've dried up a little bit uh while.

N

They've dried up um and what we've found is that? um Because the bins have been free.

N

People uh use them for various things other than recycling, they come to the dpw and grab them and.

N

They don't have a lot of feeling of responsibility associated with them, so we find them.

N

You know people use them for moving, they use them for storage, they use them for a bunch of different.

N

Things so the idea is that in this case, there's a little bit of ownership and responsibility.

N

That there's some value to these bins that the city is currently subsidizing them. So.

N

This is just to help offset that cost. What was that cost? uh Ten dollars? Okay,.

F

And any questions I think it's more a cip question, but are we not doing the totes for the recycling.

D

That was discussed years ago and may have gone to the wayside. Yeah. We, the challenge for the totes, is.

N

The hope was to be able to um apply them uniformly across the city.

N

And because of the challenge, toters work well um for areas that have the space to store them.

N

Okay, so there's a lot of apartment dwellers that don't have that type of thing, so it it.

N

Was felt that um that and the areas that certain areas of streets weren't large enough to build it.

N

Was really directed towards automated, um you know making it automated, so the staff were less exposed.

N

Yeah and they were less exposed in terms of operations, and- and you know we had- we had pursued.

N

That uh but we've unfortunately not been able to execute that situation, so we do not have a voter.

B

I was a little unclear on crack ceiling, um so does this involve the city.

B

Repairing private driveways would not. We would not touch private driveways. I didn't think so. Yeah.

B

Yeah it's this would be. This is purely a road um won't work. Okay,.

B

So somebody would call and say: there's.

B

Damage that we need to fix on our road um and then there would this fee would kick in yeah.

B

If they created the damage- okay, that's what I was not a resident. That said hey. I want to do that. So.

N

He's okay for 300 bucks! That's interesting! That would really help new service line.

N

Oh you want your trash picked up. Send me some money yeah. No, I think there's the intent was.

N

Really just little towns in new hampshire do that we don't do that. No, this is this is uh not private.

N

This is purely things that uh somebody caused damage and that would be repaired.

N

And they would pay for that repair that helps me understand. Okay, you had a couple of public.

A

Works questions, but do you want to take votes on the changes? First, like we've done, the other sure.

F

Motion to accept the changes it changes so moved. Second all right and then your additional question.

D

So for the cfc removal, I'm wondering I don't know if you could actually know this information, but.

D

If having a fee, discourages people to drop off their air conditioners or fridges versus.

D

If it was free or dare I say, if we actually paid people 20 to drop it off the reason.

D

Why I'm throwing it out there is. I mentioned methane from food waste.

D

By far the worst guesses out, there are cfcs as far as greenhouse gases go. So if there's a way.

D

To get people to bring more old equipment, there fridges air conditioners, I think it'd be better.

D

I just don't know how much you're getting I don't begin with. I think the general public understands.

N

That there's a cost associated with disposing of these products.

N

um You know roberta and jen could speak to the numbers, probably but um we've some we've seen a.

N

Significant increase in special waste disposal, um so this is really something that you know where.

N

I would be hesitant to to waive some of those fees. um You know we established uh adjusted fees. Last.

N

Year and added some fees relative to bulky waste disposal last year, um and that was really just a.

N

Reflection of need to be doing this and illegal disposal happens, but it's pretty rare um and.

N

You know we found for the most part, people, don't that you know they. They understand.

N

There's a disposable cost: do you see many air conditioners just being thrown out.

D

During dpw, not necessarily dpw, but if people leave it on the side of the curb.

D

At the end of the summer, hoping that the trucks will just pick it up and yeah, usually if it's.

N

Associated with a property it gets put back to the property and the property owner's contact.

N

um And that you know we we usually do an effort to.

N

Track down who's associated with that, um if it's thrown out in the woods, that's a different thing.

N

So it's a lot of effort yeah. Thank you.

F

B

Well, we have director rice here.

B

The past two years we've talked about stormwater at the fee committee and this may be.

B

A follow-up for the when we get to the budget but, as I recall we spend about.

B

550 000 of operating expense on stormwater and then there's capital expense as well.

B

And all that really is borne by.

B

Property tax at this point, 50 percent- is property tax. The other 50 is from the sewer fund.

B

Yep correct, but it's you know it's one wallet for the most part. So right have we ever looked at.

B

Where the largest sources of stormwater runoff are, and if we ever tried to say.

B

You know if walmart's got a 60 or 80 car parking lot and a flat roof there driving a larger share.

B

Of that 550 000 cost than a homeowner in his driveway yeah. So brian is our point person.

N

For stormwater within the department- and he and other staff have been very involved in looking at.

N

Just this question that you're asking about- and I don't know if you want to add anything to it- sure.

O

uh Counselor this this came up in um you know the council orientation and we've we've been exploring.

O

We're in the uh the fourth year of the five-year permit cycle for ms4 permitting. We also have.

O

Our the great bay municipal permit, which part of that says, actually it directs us to look.

O

Into stormwater funding, because the next realm of of trying to reduce nitrogen in the bay.

O

And and in water quality is actually to address storm water, we're doing it at our wastewater.

O

Plants with with some really good success there, so what we've done? um We did a stormwater master plan.

O

Last year and it assessed what some of the future costs would be, and we hope to sometime this year.

O

Through the city manager bring forward a basically a work session with council, where we'd talk about.

O

A stormwater utility or special revenue fund or enterprise fund and actually.

O

Work on assessing those costs, so we had a master plan update last year that.

O

Looked at it and in general it would shift the fees to a direct fee, so it would be a fee.

O

Through through this committee, when it was finally established, and then it would go away from being.

O

Funded 50 50 by taxes and and sewer fees and just be a direct charge. So, like you say, the walmarts.

O

Would have a have a larger fee because they have more area, and it would really be based on that. So.

O

This has been done, you know throughout the country, it's it's fairly common actually, and there are.

O

Some communities in new england that are starting to do it. um South portland, has burlington vermont.

O

So it's it's! It's fairly straightforward! In that respect, you know everybody is assessed.

O

You know how large the property, if it's just a single family home, it's a flat rate monthly fee.

O

The bigger properties are prorated, what gets complicated are places that might come back.

O

With some some credits, so they actually are doing some treatment on site and then might be assessing.

O

Credits, because those are that stormwater is being treated actually on site, so we we do.

O

Hope to bring that forward um sometime this year, you know given time constraints and stuff and then.

O

Pitch it as a actually a separate entity here in in the coming years, dover.

O

You may have seen a little article about dover and and that.

O

Catchphrase the rain tax. They want to call it rain tax, it's not a tax, it's a fee, but it sounds like.

O

Just another way to to to charge for something that might not be charged before, and this actually.

O

Is really just to proportionally charge people and the properties? For um you know the actual.

O

Service which, what we're doing so there's a long answer, but it's always that's a good idea. It is a.

O

Complicated thing, and once we dive into it again on the surface, seems pretty simple: it's like okay,.

O

Prorated cost, but then, when you get into credits it also would apply to perhaps some places that.

O

Aren't being paid, you know if they, if they don't have a sewer bill now suddenly they'll get that.

O

Stormwater bill, and also it would include everybody since it's a feed like utility.

O

It would you know, non-profits and, and that it would also it would apply to anybody's land per se.

O

Yeah, that's well. Obviously it would benefit the city because it would incentivize large.

B

Properties to do the treatment on site- and I just it's an equity issue for me, you know.

B

If we base it on square footage, it seems more equitable than how we're funding it. Now.

B

In fact, you know, would it be possible, maybe we could model it that that there would be some.

B

Goodness in in not having to raise sewer fees as much or something like that, if you had income from.

B

Sort of a stormwater utility there would be some offsets there. I believe, but you know we need to go.

O

Through the full exercise of need to model it of all the cost, but we do anticipate doing that. This.

O

Year so I think perhaps it wouldn't make promise, but you know this time next year we might be.

O

Putting something like that forward to the committee coming to channel 22 soon.

B

Thank you all right. um If, if you don't mind, counselor denton had some questions for other.

A

Departments that weren't on the agenda and they're real quick, we thought we'd just.

A

Pop them in real, quick starting with the city clerk um sure, let me scroll back up to that. One.

E

This had to do with the fifa, restaurant tables and restaurant chairs. Thank you. So last year.

D

The fees were waived for the tables and chairs on the sidewalks, and I saw they weren't being waived.

D

This year- and I just wanted to get- I guess, both your thoughts and counselor tabor's thoughts.

D

On possibly waiving them again what that would cost as far as.

F

So the total amount of revenue that we receive for that um is 3 300 for the tables.

F

And 1060 for the chairs for a total of forty three hundred and sixty dollars.

F

um One thing I will note to you is that we did send out renewal letters just last week.

F

But if you want us to send a follow-up letter that they're being waived, we can do that. If that's the.

F

Decision that the council chooses to go forward with how much do you think we spent on sending.

D

That's those silly question: I guess how many people do you think we sent it to.

E

I can't tell you kelly, while you're looking. These are for uh restaurant use without alcohol, correct.

I

Yes, right, 13 13. all right, so not a significant number. It would be that much money to spend on.

D

Postage if we wanted to right yeah, I'm fine percent. I know what your thoughts are. Yeah.

B

I you know I last year I was the one who made the motion to waive fees for restaurants due to covid.

B

But I I think, we're past that I'd like to, I hope, we're past that and.

B

You know, I think there has to be some enforcement mechanism for these sidewalk obstructions.

B

Which is to me what the fee operates to do. That's fair and, I believe, they're only what ten dollars.

D

For a table and two dollars for a chair, 75 for a table and 10 for a chair got one right.

D

Yeah, I'm fine keeping them keeping them yeah. It shouldn't be burdensome.

F

All right, thank you. Thank you very much. All right, then. The planning department.

E

Good afternoon good afternoon, so this is really to address the question you had counselor.

E

Denton, the max: what's the max allowed by law that we can increase the wetland conditional use, permit.

E

To for each of the three categories, so I'm consistent with what our city attorney said: that.

J

Fees can be utilized for cost recovery for providing the services. I understand that.

J

Our total fee collection on a yearly basis does not essentially exceed the value of the service.

J

That we're providing, I would say that for my staff working on quantifying this, that we probably spend.

J

85 to 90 percent of our time, supporting applications and the review of applications.

J

And we, I think, with earth in a an area where we could still improve the fees or increase the.

J

Fees, I did not propose any fee increases this year. What came the deadline came very quickly.

J

After I, within a couple weeks of me arriving here, and I wasn't sure that I would have a good basis.

J

For understanding what the fee increases would look like, so I did not propose any.

J

Additional fees, I did take a look at uh wetland cps for keene concord and dover. I can give you a.

J

Summary of those but they're not inconsistent with our general fee schedule. For that same.

J

Type of permit, but, as you noticed I'm sure in our overall fee structure that there's been quite a.

J

Few fees that have not been updated for several years, I would have liked to have taken the time.

J

To do a little benchmark study and look at some of the neighboring communities. I've also seen it done.

J

Basically, tracking the consumer price index for urban wage earners and then.

J

Taking a look at that year, over year to you know, identify an increase for.

J

Fees, I am not entirely familiar with that process, but that has been a way to adjust.

J

Fees on an annual basis, but I did not propose anything of that nature this year.

D

Thank you for coming in that explanation, the.

D

So since they're, in line with neighboring communities, at least the ones you looked at.

D

There wouldn't be much basis to increase it on just off that. uh No I mean I in just.

J

In summary, um the I think concord has a 250 dollar base fee, 100, uh anything that is less.

J

Than 100 square feet, it's an additional 50 and then more than 100 square feet up to a.

J

Thousand square feet, isn't I'm sorry additional 150 and then less than 100 square feet is 50.

J

Dover has a 200 flat fee and keene has a hundred dollar base fee? That's! In addition, that's.

J

Less the cost for butters and publishing, and then I believe um so those are the three communities.

J

They looked at it's not terribly out of line with what we're proposing but again.

J

The fees we are not you know at a point where we could say that the unreasonably.

J

Are being assessed in a way that does not contemplate cost recovery, I the jurisdiction.

J

I came from did 100 cost recovery, which required a real study of the hours put to.

J

And the wage associated with each of the people involved in review, it does get quite high.

J

Recognizing that state law is consistent here with where I came from, and it is in most states that.

J

Fees are need to be related, reasonably related to the service, provided we are well. I think.

J

Within that range, so there could be an increase proposed. uh I am you know, concerned about the.

J

Fees that haven't been updated, since I think 2015. Maybe those fees could be adjusted as well, but.

J

Generally, I did not propose any, but I think that you are within your your authority to slightly.

J

Raise them if you choose to, but they are not out of line with what those communities I mentioned.

J

um Are charging? I would add to that that the you know our our sites are complex? We are our projects.

J

Are getting complex redevelopment is uh I mean I don't know how much green field development.

J

Is being proposed in some of these jurisdiction, but we have increasingly complex projects and.

J

In challenging and constrained sites, and so I would say that the level of complexity of the.

J

Projects in portsmouth may not be equivalent to those jurisdictions as most of the work.

J

We're doing is in a highly constrained urban environment along. You know, impacted shore areas.

F

Now, if you have any appetite for increasing the three fees or.

D

Leave it where they are until they all come back next year,.

B

I would assume that the the greater than one thousand square feet category is where the the.

B

There's more work involved for your staff. Would that be fair to assume? um I would say that.

J

That that is likely to be true. um That would be, I think, a fair statement can ask you a.

E

Question of counselor dan is: it is that noise much louder over on the base than it is here.

E

It's incredibly loud, it's louder here when it's raining out, because sound travels beforehand,.

D

Yeah, I always wanted to know, and now I can ask so it's three o'clock and most people are leaving and.

D

Hopefully we're not keeping people here past there. It's all right interrupting, oh, but I was.

B

Beverly would 1250 or 1300 on the larger wetlands cups make sense. I.

J

Think that you would still be within a um a reasonable sort of amount with that price.

D

Any way to do this per square foot, I know we shouldn't do it on the fly per square foot, but.

J

um You know there are some jurisdictions that do do that, um but they have they mostly provide.

J

Ranges up to this many square foots, so it could be that over a thousand square feet, but I don't.

J

Know that we see many of those, so I would just. uh I would need to do a little more research to see.

J

To get a sense of what our and really just check in with staff, about what projects um you know.

J

That they would say really represent. You know it really has to do with the.

J

Type of development, where it's located and what is currently on the site. Sometimes they there is.

J

Some restoration, that's involved. That requires a different level of review, because they're.

J

You know bringing certain areas back, so I just I can't say uh with any certainty, but I think that.

J

The larger the side, I think it's reasonable to say, is probably a more complex question.

J

F

Thank you. Did we raise the fee for 1 000 square feet and greater to 1300.

B

Second, that, okay, all right, all those in fact hi.

A

All right um next, we had a question from the counselor denton to the health department.

E

Welcome kim thank you for staying for this.

A

And it's just: do you want to read it? This is the question related to the supermarket fee.

E

Yeah, I know it's an odd question and looking at what was listed, my guess it was all for prepared.

D

Foods by hand, no, our fees are based on inspection times and facilities. So again, this goes back to.

D

The conversation of the cfcs where actually supermarkets, they have lots of leaking cfcs.

D

In the floors, I'm not saying any of ours do, which that's how the floors stay cool is there's.

D

Miles and miles of piping below there to keep them that way. So, there's an effort nationally to.

D

Try to get people to change the flooring and the piping in it in supermarkets and, along with the.

D

Evs and everything else the thought was well if you can incentivize good behavior, but since it's.

D

Not being what's inspected, I don't think we could actually increase it if they don't you're talking.

F

About chlorofluorocarbons, yes, well, um that's a little bit out of our realm once a building is.

J

Built we do the inspections. On the you know, the operations and and the food service equipment.

J

But it's the building department, that's really involved in the pre-inspections. My understanding.

F

Though cfcs were out of production in the 90s and banned in several countries, including this one.

J

In 2010, so I'm not real sure of those dates, but I would be surprised if we had antiquated enough.

K

Systems to make it worth the effort that you're thinking to to tackle that problem, that that's a.

D

Fair response- and it sounds like it's way out of your jurisdiction, so thank you any more questions.

F

Thank you kim. Thank you for that. Next would be the library welcome, christine.

D

Hi, so I want to ask you the same question, which I asked the recreation director regarding waiving.

D

Fees for non-residents for library cards, if it's military or dependent again, there's not.

D

A library at the shipyard and our library is much better than the one that's being reconstructed in.

D

Kittery, okay, I I can't answer exactly my my assumption would be that this would be.

K

Something for our board and discussion with the city manager to go to the council and term in.

K

Terms of how we change our fees, which we haven't done in about four, I want to say four years.

K

But I want to give you a little background on them. um My goal in them, I haven't set the fees that are.

K

Here now, but basically because new hampshire is one of about six states that does not have.

K

Any funding from the state or counties as other states do all of our budget comes from from.

K

The city of portsmouth, so we do anyone who owns property, anyone basically who's paying into the.

K

Paying into the tax base in portsmouth is is entitled to library cards, the non-residents.

K

In my mind should be somewhere around the same amount that the local citizens.

K

Are paying because we're not trying to punish them? We're just trying to say.

K

These people in portsmouth have already paid into the tax base and therefore into our budgets,.

K

I know this has come up in the past because maine does have state funding or used to. I haven't.

K

Checked it recently used to have state funding to their libraries and because it was determined by.

K

The supreme court- I understand where the where the shipyard is this has come up in the past.

K

And I think it's a fair question. I think some libraries dover gives a discount to veterans not.

K

To active, as far as I recall to but to veterans and senior veterans, we give a discount to seniors.

K

um And it's so it's certainly something that we could investigate, and that would be great.

D

If you could, how others are handling it, but I just want you to have that background. That.

K

We're actually we're actually charging more than the per capita of our budget, but our non-resident.

K

Cards are per family, so I'd have to do. The the numbers would be different if you suggested.

K

Let's say a family of four should pay four times the per capita which is not what's happening so.

K

We're somewhere in the middle there, dover charges twice as much as we do so with their discount for.

K

Veterans they're still paying more than we charge and we've tried to maintain that to the level.

K

Appropriate understanding, our costs for things like new services like downloadables and the.

K

Things that have increased our cost over the years, but I'd be happy to bring it up with the trustees.

D

You would that would be great for both military military, dependents and veterans.

K

Okay, do we know how many non-resident library cards there are um the numbers? I didn't remember.

K

To get the numbers, but at the moment this year this fiscal year, it's been twenty thousand dollars.

K

In um in revenue, and so I don't know how many of them count yeah the head count, I'm I'm gonna tell.

K

You about four thousand non-resident mm-hmm, it's a good library, but we could divide that 20 000 by.

K

100, um so I can't I can't give you a direct. I could find that for you as well, I'm just.

K

Impressed that I just looked quickly to see because if half of our non-residents.

K

Happen to be veterans or active duty, and I have no idea because we don't ask that.

K

um You know it could be a loss of ten thousand dollars or, more just so, you're aware right.

B

Okay, that helps thank you order of magnitude on it. Thanks, indeed,.

A

All right back to the agenda parking and transportation.

E

Did we answer councillor denton's question about the exemption waiver for.

E

Ev chargers and the utility excavation contractor permit for roads, sidewalks.

D

That wasn't directly answered, however, when the inspection department answered a similar question.

D

I'd imagine the response would be very similar where it would take away so, um okay.

D

I'm fine with that all right. It's back to parking and transportation on page 48.

E

Welcome back so good afternoon, uh there was only one change this year recommended.

P

And that's in the uh the annual valet license on city property, so the division, mindful of a.

P

10 reduction of its prime inventory during the tourist season, the the driving this.

P

Conversation is the appropriate valuation of uh all available parking products, commercial valet.

P

And city operated spaces uh was last adjusted in fy 19.. Presently the license fee is 675.

P

For a year, regardless of location, whether it's a zone or b zone so considering there are 356 days.

P

Annually, where on street payments are enforced, the current fee of 675 is just a dollar forty per day.

P

But even considering uh highly reduced traffic in 2021, an a-zone space makes 1240 per day in the.

P

Last year, which is about 10 times that amount, so um uh the division um uh seeks to update.

P

This from 675 to 1500 per operation, which would equate to four dollars and 20 cents per space.

P

Per day, which still equates to a 65.7 percent uh savings, if you will uh for the lessee versus.

P

Potential revenue generation, which is justified by the explanation you see here on 348, which is.

P

Valet stations are only used when the restaurants open, so it's not a full-time situation in many.

P

Cases that was the original justification for the lower uh rate, but so for b zone. The request would.

P

Actually be a reduction from the 675 uh v levied a single b zone, space generated four dollars and.

P

Five cents per space each day in 2021, so for a valet operation located in b zone, the division.

P

Would introduce an annual fee of 500 uh per operation using the revenue paradigm uh described.

P

Before a 500 fee would equate to 1.40 per day, which is a 65.4 percent, uh similar reduction.

P

In value uh the logic behind that being, uh if, uh if, if the it's the interest of fairness, you.

P

Know if we're trying to tie uh valet license fee to revenue generation, then it warrants.

P

A discussion as to location, a or b zone a zone obviously is high occupancy and greater demand.

P

Generating considerably more revenue and pricing should consider that fact. Indeed, we have.

P

Separate a and b zone rates for single day, valet usage. So in order to maintain consistent with the.

P

Formula, if we're to use the value per day paradigm for zone a it's, only fair, that we do so for zone b.

A

Yeah um before we vote, you did have a an additional parking question.

A

So the I guess two questions one was, and I may have missed it because you're just talking.

D

About zone a and zone b, but the actual hourly parking fee did I miss that and was that in here.

D

So uh parking fee parking rates are actually city ordinance, they're, not pervy to the fee committee.

P

I'm happy to discuss them and I don't think this is the venue.

B

And peter you can correct me if I'm, if I'm wrong there, that's good, that's correct! Thank you. Let's.

F

Answer that sure thank you ben all right uh motion to accept the parking changes. Some move. Second,.

A

Water and sewer page 56 welcome terry hello.

F

Sorry all right go ahead. So, okay, we.

O

Move on no fee updates until we get to page 56, as xander said um so. Each year we update our.

O

Rate model and part of that they look at assessing the fees which, in this instance, for fire services.

O

Are up updated based on these? Are the monthly charges for based on size of the fire service.

O

The next item is backflow testing and it's been eight years since we updated that we.

O

Actually have staff that go out and test backflow devices that are in.

O

Properties throughout our our water system, about 2250 of those.

O

Tests occur each year, so this is basically just increase of the cost of that service.

O

On page 57, we do do some jobbing work on occasion for properties that are getting new services or, if.

O

So those costs are updated for three items, which are the hourly costs for backhoe, a dump truck.

O

And factor and those costs are recommended there on page 57 and lastly, the the the big change.

O

For uh this year for water sewer, we had our rate consultant. Do a uh a look at capacity user.

O

Brian, this is good these we didn't mark them as changed like with the highlight in the schedule.

A

That you were sent so it's on page 58. It's the last fees on water and sewer, but we'll correct.

A

That, before getting uh into the uh into the budget book, so it's the the capacity improvement.

A

Multiplier, yes, all right go ahead, thanks andrew um so anyway, our rate consultant looked at.

O

The capacity user charges- essentially, these are buying charges for the capital infrastructure.

O

And um given especially last year, just brought into service the pearce island facility, which.

O

All told's about 100 million dollars worth of investment, not to mention many other.

O

Investments in infrastructure, sewer separation and pump station improvements, especially on the sewer.

O

Side so they were last updated, fy, 19, so you'll see a big increase on the the water side is is about.

O

10, but it's the sewer that is recommending an increase, we'll start with the one inch again. These.

O

Are prorated based on the service size because the larger the service, the larger capacity we have.

O

To serve and again this was updated by the rate consultant when we did the rate study a number of.

O

Years back and it follows industry standards for doing that, so, as you can see just based on the one.

O

Inch charge, which would be a residential and these are for news services, so this is a building.

O

That, let's say, doesn't exist today: they're coming in they're wanting a new service, so.

O

To buy into the system that capacity charge is recommended at 39.85 on the sewer and then.

O

Prorated, as you go up in size, based on what type of building it is and how large their services.

B

Those are some hefty increases, they are it's. We we've got some hefty.

O

Hefty bills, where we're paying this year, you know just our payment at the island is.

O

Over four million dollars a year to start paying back that loan, do you foresee this being a plateau.

D

Or would keep going up, you revisit it, you can revisit it annually again. It hadn't been done in.

O

Previous years, because of you know, it's really the pierce island prompted this, because uh it really.

O

uh You know such a big number that we're starting to pay back so for all the years that, because we.

O

Had revolving loan funding for this, while we were building and constructing the facility.

O

We didn't have to pay back that debt, yet, which was quite fortunate, for you know the money now.

O

Now we are paying it that it's complete, so um that goes on the books and uh you know so. Users now.

O

That are, um you know, a new new user on the sewer system. Is you know the one the sewer.

O

Is going to this new facility? That's the best way to say it and that's that's the buy-in component.

O

Existing customers are paying for it; they already they paid for their initial.

O

um You know buy-in to the system and then they've been paying through the years as a rate payer.

B

Would this I can't remember, would this affect the sagamore creek um low pressure system, be the rates.

O

uh I think there's going to be right before account yeah yeah. I think that when we um go back.

Q

To the council to start talking about the cost apportionment one of the items will be on. There is.

Q

Any kind of buy-in fees, but it's generally waived for for new construction, like that, this part of.

Q

The cost is generally waived for new connections- okay, because those folks are in for a lot already.

B

Could this be phased over a number of years? It could be phased, but again these would be.

O

New customers, so I mean I'm, I'm not you know it's not a pro or an anti-development. It's literally.

O

What is that cost so and balancing that is? Is they are going to impact our system by.

B

Requiring more capacity right using more of our the available capacity, correct and and.

O

We do have um there are times where there's uh and then um you know bob sullivan city attorney.

O

Explained this there are occasions where um certain customers have negotiated different.

O

Fees based on maybe on-site improvements or off-site improvements, they're doing.

O

So, on some bigger projects, this this number may may change some bigger projects.

O

It might be higher for other reasons, depending on the type of sewer waste. They are sending our way.

D

Is there any way to proactively tell people in advance these fees are going to go up, or is that.

D

Not possible so we don't know who's going to be building it. In I mean these are these? Are fees.

N

That go to new development. Exactly so so people come in to do development, they're, they're, looking.

N

At fee structures, they're looking at you know what it takes to build in a place and they're.

N

Aware I mean other communities have impact fees. um You know in this case it's a it's a buy-in fee.

N

So how does this compare to similar-sized cities in new hampshire? How would this compare to.

B

Say dover or nashua or keene? I know I know when we did it. We had an update through the.

O

Rate model it was, it was comparable, but we can. We can take a look okay, so we're not way out.

B

We're not a big outlier. No, no. We are um a big uh investor, so I mean I don't know many communities.

O

In new hampshire that have spent the dollars, in fact, terry and I and peter we did an analysis.

O

The city has invested over 200 million dollars on system upgrades. That's a lot a lot of money for.

O

That's in the last 10 years is that the figure you shared, something like that. I left it on my desk.

Q

But it was 150 million over the last 10 and then 200 million over the last 20.. Okay, approximately.

N

For a community of 22 000 people, that's a significant investment yeah, the majority of it.

Q

Is over the last 10 years and if we didn't go with these increases, I would assume, or should we assume.

B

That the sewer rate would have to go up to make up the difference. I mean we have to pay that.

B

Four million dollar bond cost that starts hitting us every year. So so these fees are.

O

Not I think it's similar to, though beverly's not here, but um you know you don't necessarily count.

O

On these fees I mean we could have no development this year. So if you, if you in your budget, said oh.

O

You know we we expect this monies to to pay for something and then have to have something offset.

O

It it does go more towards the bond payments and the expectation that we've been averaging around.

O

A hundred thousand dollars a year of revenue off of this, so it would go up more, but it is.

O

You know it's the way we do the rate model it helps offset, because we have net position.

O

So if we got 200 000 of fees above what we expected, that only helps us in the.

O

Additional years and our net position is really all designed to help buffer that impact of these.

O

Big projects smooth out the smooth it out yeah best we can. We are unfortunately,.

O

Hit like everybody else, with some increasing costs that come budget time we'll have to talk about, but.

Q

Another thing to keep in mind here is you're, looking at a pretty wide spread.

Q

In terms of the size of the water service that they're getting up to 10 inches 10 inches is a.

Q

Gigantic pipe! So when we look at some of the larger units that were just built downtown.

Q

You know normally, those buildings are four to six inch size. So there it's it's pretty. It's unusual.

Q

To see someone with a 10 inch pipe paying 190 000 for a sewer service, you know that's a user.

Q

Bigger than a roadway, you know right a lot of our pipelines, for you know, standard roadways.

Q

Are eight inch diameter, so someone bring coming in with a 10 inch diameter pipes shifting around.

Q

The way water flows in our system so just help me understand if somebody builds a 20-unit building.

Q

Two-Inch diameter two-inch two-inch diameter is this. They then pay 12 752.

B

Per unit, no just for that service just for this single, so that what the it so.

O

You could divide it by the twenty, whatever in apartments or units.

B

So it's really six hundred dollars per unit energetically, right, yeah,.

Q

And you can see the history of the revenue brought in on the next page of the fee structure.

Q

um So it was a hundred thousand back in fiscal 18 that actually dropped for water.

Q

Over time went down to seven about seventy sixty five thousand nine. Fifty in fiscal 21.

Q

Sewer went the other direction, but um just gave you an idea what the.

Q

History for those two particular items looks like from a revenue perspective.

B

Yeah, no, it all makes starts to make sense. Now, when you look at it, it's new development. It's.

B

For the hookup, so it will be divided by a number of units.

B

Generally, it's a one-time fee too. So right really just up front.

A

Any other questions.

A

Motion to accept the water sewer changes so moved.

B

Second, just in our stable and predictable budget world, we don't usually see jumps all those in.

B

Favor aye aye perfect. All right um next would be the prescott park license agreements. um These are.

A

Not on the fee schedule, but in a agreement, the three agreements where it says that the.

A

Fee committee will annually review what um the three non-profits using prescott park pay for.

B

And I have to recuse, obviously uh prescott parkheart's festival.

D

First time I'm looking at this yeah, so so the.

A

Three organizations: the new hampshire arts association, the gondola.

A

And the ppaf, if you guys, want to get a little history of how it's gone, go ahead.

I

Sure um so you can see from the the document that judy just handed out. This is the fourth year of.

I

The term of these license agreements at the end of this fourth year, which will be may early, may.

I

They can attempt to renegotiate another five-year term, so we're looking we're looking forward to.

I

uh Working with the with the tenants of the of the park, um and as you can see from uh from the red.

I

On the document, because of covid, a lot of the fees have been waived over the last couple of years due.

I

To hardship what's very unusual about a license agreement is a that that a fee committee would.

I

Would recommend the increases annually? That's just a kind of an unusual provision for any of.

I

Our license agreements, but, um interestingly, um the the task of setting the fee is the fee committee.

I

But in all of these agreements, the the city recognizes weather as a major component.

I

And the city manager has the authority to reduce or adjust these fees.

I

Now I know when we did it for kovid, those votes came to council specifically, and we did get one.

I

Request this year from the new hampshire art association, for a reduction in in fees.

D

Did they specify the amount they did not they didn't and they didn't in in years past.

I

Last year they got a third, um their their fees were reduced by a third, and I think.

E

Sorry to interrupt, they were reduced by two-thirds, one-third right and uh the financials for um the.

I

New hampshire, art association- and you can speak to this more about- they were running on a deficit.

I

Out of their trust fund is that correct? That is correct, so for both last year and this year.

I

The deficit was greater this year than last year. um I don't have the circumstances as to why, but.

E

Just to note in the in this in the beginning, narrative is that.

E

Whatever the fee commit committee might recommend would need council approval.

D

So I'm just looking at the fy 22 for year.

D

Four, they still paid some okay, so council reduced by one-third.

D

And so the year five amount, that's what it would have been had year. Five is for fiscal year 23.. So.

R

This is what your this is, what you're trying to set for now correct, so that number there.

D

That's essentially an increase off of year, one fiscal year, 19 per the agreement right.

R

It's actually in fiscal year. um What was it fiscal year 21? The fee committee decided to.

R

Add increases to it based off of the cpi from november to the boston-based cpi, from november.

R

To november, so that's actually, where that increase comes from starting in fiscal year 21, if you're.

R

Looking at new hampshire arts association, you can see that there's a 32 increase. That is the.

R

Cpi, for for fiscal year, 21, which was 2.12 percent so and that was determined by the fee committee on.

R

That year, we've kind of followed that ever since that there would be an increase based off of that.

A

So so it it's year, four to year, five is a five percent. Five point: three one percent.

A

Increase and that's what the number is based on that is correct right, so the year five is.

A

Five percent more than year, four, all right before waiver before waiver yeah. This is.

A

So this is, what is being proposed is what is, in um the year five.

D

And are these fees like the fees that attorney sullivan explained where they need to go towards.

D

um These are in an agreement. These are an agreement, okay, so so this is contract.

D

Yes, that makes more sense.

D

So I would like to reduce them, but then they'll be reviewed by the council.

D

Again correct correct! Because if we reduce it to a third.

D

For the last year prior year of covid, I think it would make sense to at least reduce it.

D

To two-thirds this year, instead of just ramping up from a third to full.

A

So your request is to raise them to two-thirds of what the suggested is correct. Okay,.

D

um I I'll make all those in favor I'd, do them separately, so I would, I would do new.

I

Hampshire art association and then gondola and for the arts festival. I would just.

I

Have the record reflect that it's a suggestion and a recommendation without a vote that is fair.

D

So for the new hampshire arts association, I would like to reduce fee to two-thirds of that.

F

Voting on the other two, uh yes,.

B

Yes, the arts association and the envelope yep, the arts association has asked for relief.

I

Yes, they're the only of the three that so far that we've got a written request: okay, because of covet.

B

That's what they stated: yes, okay, so they're coming into the year with the deficit. Yes,.

D

And then uh motion to do the same to.

D

Reduce the proposed fee to by two-thirds two to two two thirds. Thank you. Two-Thirds.

A

Any questions for the gun, the gun for the gun, any questions.

A

I'll, second, that all right, all those in favor aye all right, hi now, the third one, the cpaf right and.

A

This one, I can't that's right all right, let's see if I get it correct this time, I'm going to.

D

Motion to reduce the fee to two-thirds the proposed year, five fy 23 amount, all those in favor.

A

Hi and counselor denton, you had a question similar to the one for uh library. Yes, so and rick.

D

When it comes to the hourly fees, for either launching boat or boats and kayaks, or putting them.

D

Tying up to the pier any guess what it would cost. We waive that for military military dependents.

D

Or veterans, I think, that's a separate fee structure, not not under the terms of these license.

I

Agreements correct so now, yeah now we're back to the we're back to the same. The fee committee yeah.

I

Or the fee schedules, if I make the um the docs, are our special loan, uh that's structured through the.

N

uh The trust which I think it could be a little more challenging to provide those discounts.

N

uh The the boat launch is something that that could be considered, but I believe the I'd have.

N

Would have to get back to you on the structure of how we're paying back the boat doctor.

A

This this goes into the trust, this, the right. These revenues do correct, correct, but not the.

N

Boat launch doesn't go into the trust boat launch does not, but the docking feasibility. If the boat.

D

Launch would be the easiest one. I would definitely ask that be looked into. That's a recreation.

B

And that would be for non-residents. That would be for non-resident.

D

Military dependents or veterans, so they show up the kayak and say that would be for the daily, not.

D

For I think, there's both a daily and a pass so just for the daily.

A

That's on page 43., thank you.

A

So what exactly do you want him to uh so this wouldn't be peter. This would be more a question.

D

For recreation, if when they look into not charging military dependents,.

D

Or veterans for the outdoor pool, if the same could be done for the uh pure, silent boat launch.

D

And that would be not per season that would simply be per launch.

D

Stuff someone there's.

A

So so the budget book will re reflect what is here. You know, besides the emotions that we took.

A

And the veterans report back, he can he's probably going to report back and if.

A

You guys want to change something in june when you're voting on it.

A

After a report back that's how it would happen that works. Thank you.

D

Should we motion to adopt this and whole or.

D

The individual um we've kind of hit every we've kind of hit every uh change so.

B

Another stand is proposed right, but we do have one more thing on the agenda. I'll just public comment.

A

Any public comment: yes, sir, I do have a seat. Please state your name and your address. Please thanks.

S

280 south street um and sitting here, I've made quite a couple notes and uh I'd like to uh propose.

S

Them to the members um and listening to um the city attorney described the uh the fee structure.

S

um For the composting as a resident, I was kind of confused as to if we were actually talking about.

S

A fee here or a fine and then my next question to that would be: are the costs associated with.

S

Any of this, since you went the other way being covered by who has to enforce this.

S

Like I think I don't know who mentioned that, how do you enforce that people are actually composting.

S

That you gave them a discount already and uh do we know that we're covering our cost on that one.

S

The next thing I would like to ask is I'd just like to make a statement from the from the.

S

Inspection department on the roof permit, because I myself had to put a roof on two years ago,.

S

And I paid a fee, I paid a permit fee of fifty 50 and there was no inspection. There was there.

S

Was nothing included in that I came over, I paid my fee and, and that was it so fyi I I don't know how.

S

That fits in, but that's what was happening at that time. The next comment I would ask.

S

Is to you peter on the cost of the recycle bins of ten dollars? I guess I would ask.

S

That the type of bins be upgraded or something, if you're going to ask us to pay for them.

S

This is one of my pet peeves, because I have repaired mine numerous times and on south street.

S

At 6 20 in the morning on tuesday, you can hear the trucks coming up and the the.

S

Gentleman throwing the bins down and um if you're going to ask the.

S

Taxpayers to pay for this, in addition to their taxes, I guess I would like.

S

Better equipment so that they don't break and crack and mine are ugly. They have fifteen thousand.

S

Duct tapes on them, because of that, so that would be my question there, since that has gone through.

S

um The last thing I guess in in listening to especially counselor denton, um I I would remind.

S

You that for every fee you waive or for everything you cut since this is the only place there's only.

S

Two places where we get revenue to pay for the services in the city. This is the other one. The.

S

Other one is property taxes assessed to the residents and and the commercial taxpayers, but.

S

For every fee you cut or take away or dismiss it, it has to be made up somewhere. So it automatically.

S

Goes to the property taxpayers, so I would ask you to please think about that, as I have no idea.

S

The the amounts that we that that were discussed today that were decreased.

S

And all of this, if passed by the council, would go on the property tax pairs.

S

So that was um those are my comments and I don't know if uh you can answer any of my questions.

S

As far as the first parts, since this is public comment through the through the counselors, I've.

E

Asked um city attorney sullivan to come back to answer that question about fee versus fine.

E

Thank you because I just want to make sure we have this correct bob. This is the question you.

E

Were in the room? Initially um the compost question? Yes, because it's it's all in how you set it up.

E

It's a fee for outdoor dining, but does it then become a fine? Does it trip that issue, not the.

C

Way, I you know, I've had some communication with council then, and the way I look at it.

C

It's simply an agreed upon amount, it's contract between the city and the restaurant.

C

Saying if you uh compost well the way it's developed even today, it says if your compost.

C

uh You are fine, but if you don't compost, you're gonna have to pay this extra 200. I don't think.

C

It's a fee or of mine. I think it's a contractual arrangement. Thank you. May I ask another so.

S

You didn't really go through the steps of how we get there, so you did mention that this needs.

S

To be in an ordinance, so are we there penalty has to be an ordinance. um The the way this one.

C

Would get there as I unders after the discussion today, is that probably tonight.

C

Somewhere, along the way, counselor 10 would uh um get the authority from the rest of the council to.

C

Make a motion in a place: that's not on the agenda.

C

The motion would be that the private of the council.

C

With regard to outdoor dining service, be supplemented by the requirement that.

C

All restaurants serving food on city property pay, 200 additional composting amount ex, which would be.

C

Waived if the restaurant's actually complied with composting ordinance, could we also con consider.

E

The the converse so that we don't run a foul of the vote that the council took previously. Could we.

E

Structure it to say, and again this gets back to enforcement.

E

The fee in the case of our parking space is 1500. If you do not compost, the city will charge you 200.

E

An additional two for for not composting, so as long as it's contractual, it doesn't matter. That's.

C

What I was trying to say I was I was um the result will be the same. That's what I was trying to.

C

Call I'm just concerned about sticker shock or or council changing that number and having it.

E

Be a if I may, yes, um the the thought I had originally was that, instead of raising it to.

N

Cover the cost, you know to add the additional cost. It would be reward. The good behavior and detox.

N

Off the 1500 right, so that would be 1300 for folks that do compost and 1500, because the 1500's.

N

Already been approved by council yeah and they wouldn't raise, I could see restaurants being upset.

N

Right, there's been an increase in fee, and it wasn't right particularly noticed in that whole.

N

Thing in this way, you're able to reward the folks that are doing the right thing and it's a simple.

N

Document you know document your contract, mr fox, um and then then you qualify for that deduct.

D

And seeing as the council nationally voted to send it here, do you think would have to go back.

D

To the council for going to be rewarding versus increasing yeah, because you're changing it. Okay,.

D

That's fair and I'll. I could work that in tonight. My my last question on that would be. um How is the.

S

Public going to be made aware of this: does this require a public hearing because of the change.

C

There's no requirement for public hearing on this kind of a council vote.

C

So probably the way that public would be informed of it is tomorrow, or anybody who applied for.

C

Outdoor service on city property just be told, this is the status of the council. We can. We can include.

E

That information, in the view, permit message out to permitees and we can certainly publicize it.

E

Through the various channels that we have okay, thank you. Thank you any other questions. No thank.

D

You for bringing all the staff here to answer my questions. It's down to just a few uh motion to.

A

Close the meeting adjourn the meeting yes and before we adjourn does it make sense for one.

E

One or both of the counselors to put under their name for the march 21st agenda, the the report of.

E

The fee committee or what's the timing after this, um we we just publish it into the budget.

A

And that's the report and then, when the budget presentation happens you you can speak to it.

A

When, when we have like a work session on the budget or or not, you know, but it will.

A

Go up for a vote in early june, along with all the other budget resolutions.

A

And these will all be listed as an attachment, and you all will vote on it. The the dining ones since.

A

The vote is happening now. Those will not be in there as a change they'll be as an active fee.

A

If it's, the ones that were passed are active now and if you make the amendment it'll it'll.

A

Change the fee and it'll be in the budget book as already active all right. Thank you.

A

For watching to adjourn yeah so moved seconds in favor, aye aye perfect. Thank you. Thank you.