City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Governance Committee, 16 May 2022

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5.16.2022 Governance Committee

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Thank you all for your patience. We wanted to make sure that we had documents ready for everyone to view today, we'll start with a roll call. Councillor tabor.

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Councillor lombardi and I'm counselor cook, and I'm here.

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As the committee governance has been working on reviewing the code of ethics for several months.

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Now and we've gone through several re reiterations of the code, we've discussed this with individuals.

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Who've taken part in the process from people who served on the committee to people who were part of.

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The review, and at this stage we have a redline draft of the code of ethics that.

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We have reviewed already as a committee, and so we would anticipate that we are closer.

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To finishing this review and today we're hoping to go through that red line, draft and.

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For what is hopefully close to our final review, if not our final review with that said,.

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We have shared the draft for all those at home watching on zoom and also for anyone in the.

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Room so that they can see it up on the board. It's also was available online with the agenda.

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Let's start with the start of the draft.

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Note that everything is bolded and in red when there are changes under section 1.801 definitions.

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um Did the committee have an opportunity to review this.

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Okay, are there any questions under section 1.801? No, not for me.

B

Under the official duties number three in the case of the chief of.

B

Police superintendent of schools and fire chief, the aim of that paragraph is to say.

B

Official duties has to do with what their responsibilities are in their job description, so.

B

It seemed to me the city manager should be in that too.

B

Okay, I don't know I'll defer to bob on that, but there was a reason for this.

C

The I think this, the reason is because of the way this.

D

Ordinance developed organically, there was, you know originally.

D

Because of the police commission and the fire commission control police chief and the fire, she.

D

Do a separate language for a police different fancy and that just got carried forward.

D

You get to the very same end and also be inclusive of the city manager. Now you say that if you just.

D

Added the uh the committee wanted, the language about and job description add that into the.

D

Prior section- and you would have rolled them all together or you could do what you said.

D

Add the city manager in here I think it gets you the exact same result.

D

B

I think we have some language for how conflict in the case of the city manager is handled, but.

B

I just thought that might be a an area that would be more inclusive.

A

I have a question about this: do we need to include this city manager in that paragraph, since the city.

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Manager is included in the first page. I think the manager is covered by the existing language. Okay,.

E

Can we scroll up so we can see.

A

Yes, yes, go ahead, I think that's reasonable.

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And I think we're on the next page we're on here we are under official duties.

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Which is now section h.

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um The question is whether or not the city manager is included in.

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In subsection one, but whether or not the city manager also needs to be that needs.

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To be reiterated in section three, this is only for the purpose of describing official duties failing.

D

To comply with official duties is actually not an ethical violation, but there are ethical violations.

D

That are based upon official duties, so you'd have you have to look at the ethical violations, not the.

D

Definition of official duties to determine when there's an ethical violation: okay, okay,.

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Council chamber your thoughts: do you think we should still.

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Amend that I think if bob says it's covered in existing language, I'm fine with that. Okay.

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Are there any other questions on sub section? 1.801 definitions? No! Okay. The next section is section.

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1.802 conflicts of interest and you'll note that there's only um one minor change here in section g.

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Is there any question here not for me.

F

That makes sense. Okay, then we'll move on to section 1.803, consequences of violation.

A

Any questions on that section- this is a short section.

B

B

Would it be fair to assume that we talked about the ethics investigation officer.

B

The city manager has the power to identify and retain. Does that.

B

Give her the power to pay a stipend if we think that's necessary. Where are we.

G

Counselor taper, which section are you on 805? I think 19.805? Okay, oh wait! What did I skip ahead?.

F

Yeah, I'm not quite there yet. Are we okay with 1.8 monday morning? Yes, are we okay with 1.803.

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Consequences of violation- yeah everything's, fine there for me: okay, then 1.804. Yes, I have a.

F

Couple things um I just there's a redundancy.

F

In all members shall be selected. It's about the fifth sixth line down all.

F

Members shall be selected by lot to maintain a full board as necessary.

F

And then um down below the boe members shall be selected by lot and drawn.

F

At the first meeting I don't know if I think the question was, how do you fill a vacancy.

F

How do you feel a vacancy okay, so.

F

It's it's needed twice in there. I guess all right, okay and then I had.

F

See in c um it says the member shall elect a chairperson and it, um and it was before.

F

The members of the board, but now boe member, so I think that should also be plural. Yes, there's one.

F

Very minor, but.

F

F

That's it on 10804, for me, just just there's a little ministerial thing here for a second.

D

Are you going to get this done? You want me to get this done. You can get.

G

It done, but I am taking notes just in case all right, so anything that.

D

You know like vin's edit just now I'll, take that down and I'll see if that gets done.

A

And so let's look at anything else on 804 just to make sure before we move on.

F

Not from me not from me, okay 805, then.

A

Ethics investigation officer.

B

Yeah, I just wanted us to think about.

B

Identify and retain.

B

Could that include a stipend if we think that.

B

I think that language would so it authorizes by this.

F

uh Section that the city manager will have the financial resources to do that or would that have.

F

To come to the the council first in discussion of this, we had thought that it may not be necessary.

D

To actually hire somebody, we think that members of the buyer exempt, for example in the city, would.

D

Probably volunteer to do this: they've done it in the past, but if money was necessary.

D

This isn't the place that would authorize money. It's the budget. It needs to be a.

D

Allocation in the budget for the manager to rely upon to retain someone and for money, okay,.

A

So um I guess I have a question around that. So if if there is uh an ethics event, investigation that.

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Progresses to the level of the ombudsman, then we would expect potentially not necessarily but.

A

Potentially a supplemental appropriation: well, the manager would have the authority to retain.

D

The person she would have to locate a source of funding if there was something in the budget at.

D

The you know, without requiring a supplemental appropriation, she could go to that if there was.

D

Nothing in the budget then you're correct and you have to be a supplemental appropriation. Thank you.

A

Is everyone comfortable with that? Yes, yes, okay, the rest of 805, which I think is on the next page.

A

I think most of it is really striking that section, as everyone will know,.

A

Because this is a change, this is. This is the most significant change, probably in the ordinance.

A

And so then we come to 1.806.

F

And I have a couple things on that: okay,.

F

In let's see, b1.

F

It says the review for sufficiency.

F

Of the complaint will be conducted within 30 days. Does that imply that'll be completed.

D

Just the review for sufficiency will be completed in 30 days, but it says.

F

Conducted so I'm wondering if conducted equals completed, I I had thought so. We could, if you.

D

If you prefer the word completed, we could certainly.

D

I think it's clear: okay, we'll make that change. Okay,.

A

That seems reasonable to me and then in um section c.

F

Paragraph uh second paragraph, um the eio's investigation shall be completed within 45 days.

F

um Is that 45 days from the completion of the um it doesn't say when that, when that 45 days starts.

F

So I would, I would assume that that would be start after the.

F

After the uh completion of the sufficiency after that's what I had thought in writing, it.

D

Would because that's when it gets referred, yeah the I o does that have to be specified in this.

F

uh We could certainly clarify it easily enough.

D

We do have a referral, though in b4 right it shall be referred to the eio.

B

And the other parties notified.

B

We've got that action happening.

G

So if you want more clarifying language, you could just put the eio's investigation. Shell completed.

G

Within 45 days of the date of referral, I think that just is clear, so it doesn't.

A

I think it's always reasonable to clarify so that everyone understands.

A

The process and that's all I have in that.

A

Is there anything else on 1.80.

B

Just a copy editing thing.

B

In letter a we have, the complaint will set forth specific facts with enough specificity.

B

I just wondered if it was simpler to say, set forth acts with enough specificity.

F

With enough specificity and detail.

G

Let's start right here yeah, so I'm sorry john, do you think maybe delete the second specificity.

B

Specific facts with enough detail: the first one.

B

Not the second right here right such facts with enough specificity and detail for determination.

G

Is I think, what mr taper's suggesting.

D

Specific all right got it.

A

F

That was all I had: okay.

A

So then, we're on to section 1.807.

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Disposition and sanction.

A

I had no comments on that.

B

Very much the intent of our discussion.

B

A

Are there any other concerns questions comments, um because I think that concludes the.

F

Ordinance, I think it's pretty tight as it is now. Okay. Well, then, it'll, obviously.

B

Get a further review by the council, yes, and I'm sure they'll have input. I think.

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That's an important distinction. You make councillor taber. I think it's really important for.

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Our the public to know that the governance committee.

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Only sends things forward to the council as a recommendation.

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And then the council reviews that recommendation in the case of an ordinance that requires several.

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Reviews at the council level, so um there will be plenty of opportunity, additional opportunity.

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For more public comment and in addition to what we've heard here in governance, so.

F

Do we have to vote to forward this to the council and should we before we do that? Obviously we want.

F

To get some public comment, um we can, if you like, we can suspend the rules and move public comment.

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Up on this matter, if we want and specifically and then have public comment on the second.

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Matter on our agenda, if we want afterwards, if you would prefer that structure for today,.

F

All right, as long as it happens,.

B

Well, counselor lombardi's, obviously putting the horse first in the cart. Second,.

B

Get the public comment and then vote. Okay, can I get a motion to suspend the.

A

Rules and move public comment forward so moved. Second, all in favor, aye, aye.

A

With that, is there any public comment on specifically on the code of ethics.

H

Good morning, greg mohanna 3 pheasant lane portsmouth.

H

There was a couple of things that I mean pretty thorough, but um when we get into um 1.806.

H

The last couple times we looked at this there was an attempt to provide some sort of a definition.

H

For 1.806 b1 sufficient, the word sufficiency and this seems to lack any type of criteria.

H

I know it's kind of like sticking a fork in a piece of jello, but.

H

It does lack criteria and then the next piece of that puzzle number three where it goes. If.

H

The complaint is deemed inefficient, the complainant will be notified in writing.

H

Of a decision with a copy for provided by the church party.

H

Everything else in town has an appeal process just deal with yeah. What you're talking about was.

D

Very much in consideration and thought about, I remember it and then the policy would was going to.

D

Be sufficiency will be a low hurdle. I remember you saying that something to weed out yeah. So what we.

D

Come up with is this sentence. A complaint will be deemed sufficient if it is determined that the.

D

Complaint establishes some reasonable possibility that a violation of the code of ethics may have.

H

Occurred: the very next sentence. I was going to read: okay, all right; okay, it really put a lot.

D

So you kind of moved it down to three out of one and addressed it there. Okay, thank you. Bob, um the.

H

Next thing, a little different um most processes throughout town have some semblance of a second.

H

Review called an appeal, call it whatever, um and this basically says the city manager and.

H

I don't know sorry, it says the the mayor and the city attorney correct, have the first pass at it.

H

There's a lot more people involved. There's the council. um I guess the question would be if, if.

H

Someone feels that that wasn't properly reviewed, I think, you're stuck going to superior court next.

H

Is that I would say that's true and I just kind of wonder if the residents won't pick up on the.

H

Fact that a lot of other things, for example, if you, if you try to abate your taxes, you have.

H

A couple of different processes- and it's just a comment- that it seems that two out of.

H

A much larger group if they don't like that, they should have.

H

The opportunity to possibly present something to either the I like kate's term, the obudsman.

H

Which is simpler to say than the investigating officer, so that was that was my point on that and.

H

I won't take up more time I'll, let let somebody else speak. Those are my two points. Thank you guys.

H

Thank you, hey. Are we supposed to approve the minutes from the prior meeting? Are you.

A

We just don't have them yet gotcha, it wasn't on the agenda. Thank you. Yes,.

I

Esther kennedy 41 pickering half. I agree that there was no. There needs to be an appeal process.

I

Some at the beginning I heard from in my own personal case, I heard from counselor.

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Splain that if he knew all the videos were out there, all the information was out there. Everything.

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He probably would not have taken it forward. I was not given any opportunity.

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To speak on my behalf as a decision was being made.

I

The other thing I'm concerned with in your situation here is it says all parties will.

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Have to provide their own council and pay for.

I

I do not believe that's always happened, I believe, as a city councilor in some ethics before.

I

Primex would step in so I guess you need to be clear on that, because I do not believe that has.

I

Happened in the past and if that's the way it's going to be personally, I had to pay for my own, but.

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I know currently some haven't. I also find that um there is no out for whistleblowing here. We have no.

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Whistleblower law on the books to my knowledge of sufficiency, and you should have a right to do that.

I

And have a conversation about that.

I

I'm very worried that we're putting employees in this policy as a manager in a school.

I

We have contracts, we have negotiations, we have our own ethics policies in our schools, for employees.

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And I'm not sure why they're in here, because there is a process, am I wrong on that or right.

I

So you don't need to answer, but I I do believe that you need to put. But if.

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You're going to put them in, you need to put those processes in those policies in here.

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Those procedures, so people understand what is happening and how they can go through this.

I

I also feel that the ethics complaints that I saw at the city level in my tenure on the board.

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In some cases, we had a woman who people did not like on the zoning board.

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She was opinionated, a group of five men made the decision and said that she was ethical, incompetent.

I

It was a pan-picked group, it was politically motivated and I'm upset that that can happen.

I

When you give power to people so like when I heard today that city attorneys say well, we.

I

Hope someone locally can volunteer. That has a license that frightens me. That scares me.

I

I would love to see it in here that, when, if whoever we select to, I like the idea of having.

I

Someone come in and talk to the people and pull the stuff together. I would have loved to have the.

I

Opportunity to share um what happened with me, but I think it needs to be someone outside the city.

I

So I would love to see it written in here that it would not be a member of the city.

I

It would be someone outside that's impartial.

I

I have seen the recent ethics complaints again. I find it kind of humorous that we have a whole.

I

Thing about funding and finance- and you know those just got bypassed. One was a state law broken.

I

It got bypassed, so I find the ethic seems to be politically motivated and what happens and how it.

I

Happens- and I don't know how we write that so that we can fix it in here, but I really sense that.

I

You know if I didn't have the opportunity to show all the videos, because, as I've been very clear,.

I

During my ethics hearing, first of all, it was on zoom, so I understand it was a little different, but.

I

We had two people, mr gamester, and our school board. Member.

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Say that they hadn't gotten the evidence before they were making a decision.

I

And the chairman of the committee- and I have it on video, the chairman of the kid community.

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Said, oh, that's right. We can go ahead and make our decision. They never got. The packet of information.

I

And they shared that that is wrong, so I don't know how we make sure that that takes place. Now I have.

I

Personally not decide. I've personally decided not to make more videos of evidence, because I could.

I

Put more out there, I mean we even had our city manager admit that there was a problem and no.

I

One acted upon it right in a video, so I guess what I'm looking for is when we do an ethics.

I

We need to also look at our whistleblower law and we need to kind of put those together and decide.

I

What that looks like so people have the right to share what is ethically going wrong in our city.

I

And we need to make sure that we have as much outside the city. It's not part of the politics.

I

It's not part because every ethic this situation I have seen has been politically motivated.

I

Whether it is builders trying to get someone off the board so that we don't vote for our.

I

Mcintyre, whether it is um you know, people getting off a zoning board.

I

Because they didn't like the fact that they were questioning ordinance, height.

I

So I guess what I ask.

I

Is and there seems to be no discrepancy about what goes forward and what doesn't.

I

um You know I find it kind of humorous some of the ones that don't go forward.

I

And ones that I probably would not want to see go forward, but they don't go forward.

I

So I guess I would ask you consider all that in this, I feel that having a city manager, this.

I

Much involved is not probably appropriate, it is appropriate for employees, but I and I, but I would.

I

Encourage you to look at those contracts because I think a lot of this stuff. You can't even bring up.

I

To a city, if it's an employee because in their contract they're, they have numerous rights of.

I

Having non-public and you're saying here that everything must go to the public or you're.

I

Gonna have a public hearing well in those employee contracts. It says you can't have a public hearing.

I

It has to be done competition unless the employee chooses now. I can't believe that the employees.

I

Would change their contract? I mean employer can choose a contract, so I guess I. I would really.

I

Question how this lines up with your contracts and your policies and the other thing is. I have a.

I

Little problem with the fact that the city manager is going to be also in charge of police and fire.

I

Commissions, I mean, if you have the city manager over everything, then my question would be.

I

Where is the police and fire commissioner set because they've always been kind of their own.

I

Entity um so, and maybe that's something we're trying to change- I don't know, but that would be.

I

My last question, but I think you have some work here to do and again I would check policies and.

I

Procedures in every one of your areas to see if you're conflicting with those thank you thank you.

A

Is there any more public comment? Thank you. Sorry.

E

280 south street, uh most of my comments um are going to go back to.

E

Something that I think has been kind of discarded in here.

E

And that is the city of portsmouth organizational chart or anybody who doesn't remember.

E

On top are the citizens which the rest of us are in here then, the mayor and the city council and.

E

Then, underneath that the school board, the city manager, police, commission and fire commission.

E

Now, for me, the key um the key points on this are who's elected and who's employed by.

E

As the citizens are on top, we elect the mayor and the city council. We have no choice in who.

E

Is employed by the city, so my comments are: are all geared toward this organizational chart.

E

As I believe it's, the core document here.

E

So I'll start going through on the red line edition in number 1801 the definitions.

E

I'd like to call to your attention number f governing body.

E

All of the governing body commissions and the city council are elected here.

E

In number h, in the case of other officers,.

E

You have and responsibility set forth in legislation or vote.

E

Personally, I would like it to find there that it is city council, vote.

E

City council is the governing body.

E

And I think you discussed in the case of the chief of police and superintendent of schools.

E

As mentioned by um by esther kennedy, I think that needs to be really looked at as to who's stepping.

E

On whose toes and how the org chart defines this as again, the commissioners are elected.

E

um The one thing in still in section, 8180, 1802 conflicts of interest. There was nothing included.

E

In there about disclosing by any member of any board confidential information that.

E

Was discussed in a non-public session or a seal session? I think that needs to be included there.

E

um I'd like to have a review and a comment by our legal department on the consequences.

E

Of a violation, number 1803, any violation or any provisions of this ordinance shall.

E

Constitute a cost for public censure, fine suspension or removal from office.

E

On that, I believe it should be made clear what constitutes each each action there. I.

E

Guess you'd say because and some of the actions that are are listed here, the governing bodies of.

E

Each one cannot remove a member, even the city council. This would go to the superior court.

E

On your section, 1804.

E

I notice there's a change here. The the board of uh ethics shall consist of five members, two.

E

Members of the council, um the thing that seems to be missing here for me is um any time a type.

E

Of resident or citizen involvement in this um I like I, I would ask that you consider that also.

E

um There's a little bit of duplication in in the uh how how uh the lots would be.

E

Selected but I don't I don't you know, that's that's neither here nor there, um the the one.

E

That I do have a problem with, and I think this definitely needs more consideration is one 1805.

E

The position of ethics officer, the city manager, shall have the power to identify and retain.

E

This this is giving an employee the opportunity to do this outside of the governing body.

E

I don't have a problem with the city manager identifying and bringing this forward to the.

E

Governing body or any governing body for for discussion and vote but for.

E

This to be done outside of the governing body. This, the city manager, is an employee.

E

They are not um an elected member of anybody.

E

E

The sentence that says the eio shall have sufficient experience and training. um That is very.

E

Vague uh in the first discussions that we had here, it was discussed that they will have legal and.

E

Unethical background and I think that needs to be more clearly defined in there.

E

The one thing that struck me here in putting in um an employee.

E

Versus an elected official is in a lot of these places. The assistant mayor, who worked.

E

Hard to get to their position and is definitely a member of the governing body was- was left out.

E

In a lot of these, so I would I personally, I would like to see the assistant mayor put back in.

E

Let's see in section 1806 complaints such complaint must be based on personal knowledge. Here.

E

I guess it opens it up for a lot of frivolous complaints here. I would ask that you consider.

E

Evidence here or reference to either a policy or an ethics, an ethics violation or some kind.

E

Of of actual um reference that, when the mayor or whoever is going to look at this, can go back.

E

In and say this is it's pretty clear that there has been something that has been violated here.

E

Also, I think you discussed the sufficiency of the investigation. That is also a little vague.

E

Going on down to uh review for sufficiency, number two, the city and mayor, the city attorney and the.

E

Mayor shall couldn't conduct a review for efficiency, except in cases which are either.

E

Subject to complaints, complaints against the city attorney may be reviewed by the city manager.

E

I really see a conflict in here that this is not a member of the governing body and in this case.

E

I think it would be a hard thing to do, because the city manager is.

E

Obviously, works for the city, the city attorney. Sorry, obviously works for the city manager.

E

uh And I think that would create a very difficult uh situation there, and I would ask that instead of.

E

The city manager in there you could, you would move up. The assistant mayor in this case also.

E

Number three uh complaints establishes some reasonable possibility that a violation of.

E

The code of ethics has occurred. This is up to whose interpretation here.

E

This is a big vaguety, as I see it, and it's up to a lot of interpretation. I would.

E

Prefer that it would be more clearly defined, so the I guess the residency.

E

And the taxpayers can understand um what what what actually is being brought forward.

E

Down to number c.

E

The eio's investigation shall be completed within 45 days.

E

And the representative, okay 45 days unless the charge party and the city's representative city.

E

Manager or city attorney mutually agree. um This all show, I believe, should go up to the governing.

E

Body the ieo shall provide written report. That's great with conclusions reached um are.

E

You really asking the eio somebody who's coming in from the outside to reach a conclusion here.

E

That would be the question uh shall bind. It shall provide a non-binding recommendation.

E

um The problem was last time that even the boards that were put in that were elected had a problem.

E

With the recommendation, so I think this is a little uh over extension of this position.

E

To provide anything, I think when this was first discussed, um this person was bringing in their.

E

Knowledge um on both law and ethics on this and um the the whole thing on this was to have somebody.

E

Who understood this to help anybody who was on the on the uh the committee understand where.

E

They were coming from, and the the most important thing to me on this would be the independence.

E

Away from all of the other politics, or anything else that had to do with this.

E

um I believe uh I think that's it. The only other thing that was a little scary that was.

E

Already brought to your attention by um esther kennedy was the last piece of it, which is 1807.

E

B um in here uh again, you're inserting um the city manager who's, who is an employee and.

E

It seems that you're, disregarding the police, commission, the fire commission and any other.

E

Commission that was elected to oversee the police or fire, so I would uh encourage you.

E

To take a second look at that also, and I think that's it. Thank you. Thank you.

E

Any other public comment.

C

Chris white 28 quarter street.

C

Thank you, chairwoman for the opportunity to provide comment.

C

The uh the comments that have already been made are terrific and very helpful.

C

I would just highlight a couple of points: um the end of one's thought, 802, conflicts of interest.

C

So you've you've highlighted all these various primarily financial conflicts, but I would.

C

Add one more and that is any other new hampshire statute, so all other behavior, as defined by.

C

New hampshire statutes or legal precedent that constitutes illegal or unethical conduct, such as.

C

Rsa 91a disclosure of non-public information, because otherwise, with the recital you're.

A

Limiting additional legislation which may come into effect in the future.

C

I'm very concerned about the appointment of the ethics investigation officer um that the.

C

The public needs to have some part in this through the city council.

C

That it should not be done simply by the appointment of city managers and.

C

So the city council, I think, needs to be the one to identify and then approve the naming of the ethics.

C

Investigation officer and while it's implied it's a little uncertain as to whether the eio.

C

Is appointed on an ad hoc basis or whether this is a standing appointment, I'm assuming.

C

Reading the material that is ad hoc, but even if it is there should be some mention of the power.

C

To to remove, because, right now uh the eio serves as the pleasure of the city manager.

C

Jumping to 1 spot 806 c.

C

First paragraph, the charged party shall have an opportunity to provide a response to the complaint.

C

Is that in passing in the hallway I mean, there's, there's really.

C

There's no uh specification in terms of what constitutes an opportunity, um and so certainly.

C

The charged party should have a uh a full opportunity to respond either in writing or.

C

Orally um it can't just be so lucy goosey is currently stated.

C

um And then my final comment is in one spot: 807.

C

The vote for removal pursuant to the city charter is amended and I would add, on there.

C

And new hampshire statute, because there are provisions in some new hampshire statutes, which.

C

Prevent the this ethics process to result in a removal of the officer or employee.

C

So that's it thank thank you.

J

Arthur clow 431 pleasant street portsmouth in 2014, the a couple of city councillors asked for the new.

J

Hampshire municipal association, to take a look at our ethics ordinance and one of the things that.

J

They found was section g which talks about uh revealing confidential information.

J

uh Should have uh followed uh section 91 of uh and I believe, 42 of the rsas, which was what happens to.

J

An officer or an employee who reveals confidential information, as did uh councillor tabor.

J

On in on april 4th, when he claimed and through the newspaper claimed that the city attorney gave.

J

Him permission to betray confidential information. He claimed that it was appropriate to do because.

J

The decision had been made about who they were going to go to and then they had a vote about.

J

Who they were going to go with? So if you read the rfp, it would have said that it may be revealed.

J

After everything was done, including signing the contract, so we had a counselor who knowingly vital.

J

Violated the law, and our only our only uh way to deal with it at this point is to take him to.

J

Superior court, which is in the works uh because you can't betray that kind of information. But.

J

I am a bit disappointed with it with this committee. Rushing forward without doing.

J

Any kind of research really, in fact up until after I did the ethics complaint, I noticed that.

J

Nobody had done any change to section g, which said basically that no person who has uh business.

J

That is contrary to their uh position. Shall tell anybody about it. That's essentially what it said.

J

And it was changed to any. um First of all, it would be very interesting to compel an attorney.

J

Who decides it has a conflict of interest to just sit out without having to talk about his business.

J

Dealings with his clients, I think that that might be problematic, but this overhaul of the ethics.

J

Ordinance does not fix the problems. What kind of problems do we have? We had constitutional.

J

Conflicts where we had people who were breaking the rules during the ethics hearings and having.

J

Other people helping them when they were remote and no consequence, essentially for that.

J

We had evidence not offered, and now it looks like what this council is doing is taking the citizen.

J

Connection to its own government away and and basically handing it over to the city manager. I.

J

Mean we're seeing that a lot of different ways, but the ethics ordinance, even though we're stuck with.

J

The city attorney's office and we're stuck with whoever is the current mayor to be a gatekeeper.

J

We have a process, it gets broken, it's made political, um what they did to uh counselor kennedy.

J

Was awful, um I think that uh you all are giving uh counselor kelly uh an idea that there's caught.

J

Blanche behavior: I watched her as a member of the board of uh strawberry bank essentially uh vote to.

J

uh Give some property, or at least some property to strawberry bank, to make a driveway. And that is a a.

J

Residence that is rented out it's apparent to one of a high-ranking dpw official, so getting getting.

J

A driveway there I don't see how nobody raised their hand and said this is a conflict of interest.

J

So we need citizen whistleblowers because I don't see any moral courage on this council. I see a lot.

J

Of cowardless, I see a lot of narcissism. I see a lot of of people who are abusing their power and.

J

As a citizen outside of my vote, every time that I have submitted an ethics or ethics complaint.

J

I have given the background I've, given all the information for counselor tabers. They said well.

J

It's not in the ethics ordinance and then I looked through and and section g was a mess and it was.

J

Not responded to from the 2014. if you want to see what the municipal association had to say in 2014.

J

I'd be happy to point you to the document. It's a public record, it's it's on the website, but it.

J

What you're doing here is tr taking away power from the people, even even things such as telling.

J

People that they can't clap because it would, it would hurt the poor mayor's feelings if we did so.

J

I love my city, I'm disgusted by the behavior of people. I'm disgusted that when I've raised my.

J

Hand as a whistleblower people as high as the city attorney, have have put things into the newspaper.

J

That claimed he didn't have a clue what was going on. You know what I have to do just go.

J

To the bar try to catch you before you before you leave office. There is no place here for citizens.

J

To get this government back on track, we are worried. We are worried that you, you did not.

J

Want to change auditors that asked as a financial person. I have a lot of questions while you're.

J

Afraid to let go of that auditor, we have problems with uh everybody who showed up to talk about that.

J

Settlement agreement with our development partner, everybody spoke against it, and and yet we had.

J

A deaf city council, you were elected by the people, granted lovely videos put out there that nobody.

J

Wants to make a claim to that sure as heck help the election for you guys but you'll just pretend.

J

That they didn't exist that you might not know who really did it, um but I am I'm deeply saddened.

J

For this city that I love to have lost so much integrity over the years to become uh grounds for.

J

um It's not really the city of the open door anymore. It's the city of the back door, deal.

J

And I suggest to this uh committee that you stop and take a big walk backward.

J

And look through any of the um items and get get citizen feedback. Because I don't see that anybody.

J

Here is qualified to look through this ordinance and really make it solid so that it can protect.

J

Our our government's integrity, so the the hierarchy is the citizens. Then the.

J

City council, then the city manager, the city manager, doesn't need to be part of this ethics.

J

Ethics problem, frankly, I think the city manager has some questionable things going on right now.

J

Thank you. Thank you. Any other public comment.

A

Is there anyone on zoom that would like to speak.

A

uh It looks like peter whalen.

K

Yeah good morning, can you hear me? Yes, just a couple comments.

K

This whole process- I I think this committee needs to go back to the drawing board.

K

On this and really get more citizen input, the one part here in section 1.805.

K

Where you're, allowing the city manager to appoint an ethics investigation officer.

K

I think is not well founded or well grounded. This is a political process. The people of portsmouth.

K

Elect the city council, the the mayor, the most vote, getter of that council sitting down with.

K

The city attorney determines whether the crush process should go forward.

K

Bob sullivan has always been he's there to represent kind of the city on a legal basis.

K

The city manager should have no peace at all in this process zero. She works for the council.

K

If you're going to have an ethics investigation officer.

K

That should be a city council vote and the vote should be a two-thirds majority and that name.

K

Should be brought up to the city council, the city manager should not be part of this at all.

K

I think this committee should be looking. You got to look ahead, 10 or 15 years. Maybe you have a.

K

City manager, who's craving power and wants to remove a few counselors or wants to remove or.

K

Change some of the boards she could play a role in this by getting the right invested. Ethics.

K

Once he or she, so I would urge you to kind of go back to the drawing board here. This is not ready.

K

For prime time at all, based on the history with the current ethics complaints and the last.

K

You know the last ethics hearing and then the one before that, where.

K

A person was taking off the planning board. um This has not gone well for portsmouth. It's not our.

K

Our finest moment, so I I would urge this committee to scrap this, get some more citizen input.

K

And not go forward with it. It's just not ready. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else on zoom.

A

Sing no further public comment: a closed public comment on the ethics ordinance revisions.

A

Is there further comment from the committee.

F

I guess I wonder if um a few people brought up that the municipal.

F

Association have reviewed such documents in the past. I wonder if.

F

They would be willing to review this document and, if that's a good idea.

A

Can I ask our legal counsel if there's any clarification on that.

D

I'm sure the municipal association would review anything you've sent to them. Although I don't know.

D

That they would make policy decisions for the city that really needs to be made by the city council.

B

But I think we should, if there was a previous review about the section.

B

Yeah I'm not comment on. I don't think this. The city legal department didn't forward.

D

Anything to the municipal association, it may have been voted by someone else.

K

B

You know I have no problem taking more time to look at that and look.

B

At some of the other aspects of this or have a municipal association review, that's helpful.

G

Might I suggest if there are particular public comments that you want to reflect on further.

G

Or you would like some uh comment back from the legal department that you identify the sections.

G

You'd, like some particular additional information and thoughts on, and we can.

G

You know go ahead and report back on on those elements. So if there are particular items that.

G

Struck you as needing another opinion, we can do that and that's kind of what I'm sensing.

G

Here that there are some questions that were raised, that you'd, like some input on.

F

I would say the only question I have is that people brought public brought up some issues.

F

F

Didn't necessarily agree with some of those issues, but um you know that's just me I I would.

F

I'd be more interested to know whether um what's the best thing for the city, I guess is what I'm.

F

Concerned about, um I know, I'm not a lawyer.

F

F

The ordinance the way we've addressed it and we put a lot of work into makes sense to me.

F

It makes sense to to me to include the city manager.

F

At some level and.

F

You know, I think, that the manager has a huge responsibility for the staff um and.

F

I mean that's a big part of this ordinance as well, so.

F

I think the question had to do with.

F

I I have no, I have no problem with the city manager hiring, you know the eio, because I.

F

Think that's a proper, proper role for the staff, not the not the council, we don't hire people.

F

We we authorize the the manager to hire people.

F

Those are my immediate comments. I have to consider more okay.

A

I have a few questions for a legal counsel. Okay, um do we have a staff, whistleblower policy.

F

I'm sorry, I can't hear you do we have a staff whistleblower policy, don't need.

G

To answer that, I'm not I'm not hearing it. Oh sorry, do we have a staff, whistleblower policy.

G

A staff whistleblower policy, no, there is a state statute and in addition, we have.

G

um Various policies relative to no retaliation, etc. We make reference. um The employees are.

G

All aware of, and have acknowledged, the code of ethics that is in chapter one.

G

And are get familiar with it and have training on it.

G

So we generally rely on the state whistleblower statute and our retalia, our non-retaliation.

G

Provisions that are in other parts of our policies- okay, in further answers to that question, then.

A

Everyone is beholden to state statute, who is either elected.

A

Or serves as an employee is that accurate and therefore, state statute would not.

A

Have to be referenced in any code of ethics, I mean from our perspective and.

G

Bubble right, I wouldn't want to answer the question without actually looking at the.

D

State statute again, but everybody who's subject to the state statute, is subject to the state.

D

Statute right and nothing that is done here, would affect that. Okay, correct all right that helps.

D

Can I just one last point: mr white raised that point in.

D

Connection with violations of the court of ethics and.

D

There's nothing in the code of ethics about protecting people that make ethical complaints.

D

That was my point: it's certainly within the authority of the council to do that. Okay, thank you.

A

A

um And also, I I have a question about removal.

A

um And the reason I have this question is that we've recently seen in the news.

A

Another city council has removed a city councillor for a violation of ethics.

A

So am I to understand that there is a possibility of removal.

A

If there is a violation- and that does not violate rsas.

D

The giants there is certainly a way in which a council who violated.

D

The confidences of a non-public session.

D

A

Does anyone have any additional questions.

B

I think in our initial review of the ethics ordinance.

B

We studied some of the other ethics ordinances and would it be fair to.

B

Characterize the relationship between state statute and ethics, ordinance as.

B

State statutes.

B

Are one are the base layer of protection and some communities have added an ethics ordinance.

B

On top of that to deal with conflicts that they feel um elected or staff, people have committed.

B

That need to be investigated and dealt with, but by by assumption all of the state statute.

B

Protection is already there, the ethics ordinance of our city or.

B

All the other cities in the state is something to create additional uh ethics, accountability.

B

Would that be a fair characterization, the basic relationship between the state and the cities in.

D

The state of new hampshire is that all of the cities and towns are political subdivisions of.

D

The state and are subject to the rules adopted by the state and have only those authorities.

D

Which are given to them by the state, so I think that means the answer. Your questions, yes, okay,.

A

Are there any other comments.

B

I I would just say that I think a lot of we should take a look at the foundation. We've already got.

B

With the work we've done to date, we've kept the initial review.

B

We've made a standard for sufficiency for the complaint to move forward.

B

We've introduced the investigative piece which we heard from uh testimony was was lacking.

B

B

The investigative part and the report.

B

Which, then, has to be reviewed by the board of ethics?.

B

And there can be appeals made to them or the board can decide to investigate further on its own.

B

And any action that the board recommends has to then be taken up by the governing body.

B

Whether it's one of the commissions or the council, so it's a multi-stage process.

B

I think the most important thing is is their due process. If somebody feels evidence is being.

B

Overlooked is their due process. I know when we did the investigation, the board of ethics process.

B

In the kennedy case, we made sure that there was ample chance to present evidence and to.

B

Cross-Examine the complainant and to make final statements if more evidence was.

B

So I think you know, let's take a look at it, make sure there's due process.

D

A

A

The committee has worked very hard in reviewing the ethics, the code of ethics. Hopefully you all.

A

Can hear me and in doing so, we've taken into account uh views of the people who participated.

A

In the process, we've had several opportunities for public comment. We have made significant revisions.

A

Based upon the input we have received from people who participated and from the public.

A

No process is ever going to be perfect.

A

In governance, especially, what we do is we try to improve the process.

A

From where we stand and hope that the improvements that we've made make the process more successful,.

A

And make the process more open, transparent for everyone involved.

A

And fair and in the case of ethics, you really want to make sure that the process is a fair.

A

Process that there's plenty of opportunity for anyone who is accused of a violation.

A

To re have a chance to share their own views and be taken seriously so that they have due process.

A

I believe that we in that sense, we have improved this ordinance and.

A

While I understand that not everyone is going to be happy with the end result.

A

I do believe that it is much improved from where we started.

A

And I think it's worth trying these revisions at this point.

F

I would say that we are.

F

A third of the council.

F

And that um by bringing it to the council for public discussion,.

F

We can only improve that process.

F

I I think that.

F

We can gain a lot of further experience and expertise from the other counselors.

F

So I guess at this point I would make a motion to move to submit it to the council.

A

Okay, with the changes we made today, any changes.

B

um Is there a second or no.

B

I'm intrigued by the idea of a municipal association review.

B

I think there might be value in that.

B

B

Unless we feel some urgency.

B

That might be a good thing to do. um Have we ever done that with draft ordinances in the past.

B

Yeah, you know it is not my ordinary practice to refer anything to the municipal association.

D

Frankly, we have our own legal department capable of doing anything that they can do, but.

D

uh But they're there we are members and if the committee wants to forward this to the municipal.

D

Association, certainly would do it. It would be helpful if you would provide some uh direction.

D

As to what it is, you would like the municipal association to do when they conduct the review.

D

As I said, they're unlikely to offer recommendations on policy, I think.

D

Although they certainly would review it for compliance with state law,.

A

And in legal counsel's opinion is this ordinance as written in compliance with.

A

State law, in my opinion, it is yes, okay, um I think, can I ask also our deputy legal counsel.

A

If she shares that same view, I have to say I didn't have an opportunity to read the.

G

Last draft, but I'm willing to be comfortable with the city attorney's opinion on this, so.

G

Okay, and so if we sent this to the municipal association, would we also just be asking.

A

Another attorney at the municipal association for again to review this is that essentially the.

A

The way that they would work the municipal association, you know they try to be.

D

Cooperative and helpful- and they are certainly general experts in municipal on the state and.

D

If you have some request of them, I'm sure they will try to satisfy it. Okay,.

I

F

B

I was thinking that the muchos municipal association.

B

Would have broader familiarity with ethics, ordinances of other municipalities and.

B

Might be able to know some best practices and look at this in light of those best practices.

B

It's a hypothetical, we don't know how much value we get out of that.

B

And I would, I would want to know their feelings about.

B

Whether the governing body or the city manager should appoint the.

B

B

B

And how our ethics process.

B

Dovetails with state statute.

D

B

Okay- and I would be interested in.

B

Whether they think whether they recommend a whistleblower clause or a whistleblower policy.

B

B

That's me speaking as one one of the three members of the committee.

F

Reaction yeah, I would I will say this. um First of all, since there's no second, I withdraw my motion.

F

And um then um I guess I would. I would like to make a motion that we.

F

Take the time to submit this to.

F

The municipal association for.

F

Review and clarification on some specific points that we should detail for them and.

F

Some of which john has already.

F

B

I'd second, that, okay, um any discussion.

F

I think we have most debate. Okay, um I will add my comments, then, here to discussion.

A

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the initial municipal association their view. um The one.

A

Thing that, I would say is I I would prefer to to limit the requests specifically to looking at.

A

Whether or not there's any conflict with state ordinance.

A

On ethics and the reason I say this is I I I think it's really critical- that we make policy for our.

A

City, the way that, with what works here in fort smith and while I think it's important to have.

A

Their views on ethics, ordinances across the state and and what's um what they've, seen or not seen.

A

They I don't know that they've necessarily done a review to say what is effective and, what's not.

A

Effective, whereas they can come back and they can say to us well, but this is how this city.

A

Does it- or this has how this other city does it that doesn't necessarily give us an indication.

A

Of whether or not that process has worked successfully for them and in portsmouth, is in.

A

A unique position that we have direct experience with the ethics ordinance and we have gotten.

A

Feedback and gathered information from people who participate in it. I think that that, in some ways.

A

Is more valuable than knowing the way that other municipalities have addressed? Ethics.

A

And in some ways we, you know the not knowing clarifying how effective that is.

A

So I think it's reasonable to ask them for review and say: does it fit with state ordinance.

A

And and ask for an opinion on policy on appointments.

A

But at the same time, the way that we work as a city is we have a council manager form of.

A

Government and the city manager does do all the hiring. It would be completely out of character.

A

For the council to hire somebody, one thing the council could do is approve of a hire.

A

Of the city manager, but not necessarily hire someone, that's always been kind of outside of.

A

Our scope, so I would not want to upset our form of government by changing that process, necessarily.

A

But I'm happy with asking for a limited review.

B

Yeah- and I think this is a good discussion, because.

B

Some people have wanted to guard against the possibility that the manager.

B

Would use that appointment power in some improper way, but I would also point out.

B

That you could have a block on the council that could use that power.

B

B

Push the process in a direction.

B

That they would like.

B

So you know it's, I don't think you can ever take politics out of the ethics process.

B

You have to have as much.

B

Sound investigation of facts and due process from both sides.

B

And a body has to make a decision, um but beyond that human beings are not angels, so.

A

A

So, let's take a vote on the motion: okay, um all in favor, aye, okay, we will refer the ethics ordinance.

A

To the municipal association for review, specifically under the questions asked by.

D

And specified I'll take care I'll, do it now? What I'm going to do is I'm going to make the edits.

D

That you voted today and I'll send both a red line and a clean version, because it's easier to read.

D

Through the municipal association, with a list of your concerns and we'll see what comes back, thank.

A

You city attorney. The next item under review by the committee is discussion of committees itself.

A

If possible, can I ask the deputy city manager to share that for us.

A

I spent some time going through.

A

For beginning our discussion, going through the list of the committees on the website for the.

A

City going through the ordinance which lists all the committees um and the administrative ordinance.

A

And then um making some notes on how commit these committees are.

A

Established who they report to the terms of individuals on the committees, whether or.

A

Not they're blue ribbon committees or standing committees and the challenge that we're dealing.

A

With as a committee in addressing that issue, okay, so we have a long list of committees and.

A

I think it's important to note that this is very much. My listing is very much a draft listing.

A

From just initial review of all the listing of committees on the website and in the ordinance.

A

You will note that every committee that I had questions about, I put in bold.

A

And the question that I had was highlighted.

A

In the last, under the challenge column, what is the challenge in dealing with this committee.

A

Several of the committees on the list are defunct.

A

But they're named in the ordinance um so uh in introducing this.

A

What I'm simply doing first, is sharing the list of committees with everyone so that we can go through.

A

And and look at the number of committees we have committees, commissions and boards as a city and.

A

Also to ask questions about you know what is the standing of this committee so with that said,.

A

Today, we're just going to look at overall committee structure and I mean overall.

A

Committee structure not in depth and talk about um when we do an ordinance review.

A

Are there any questions about this extensive list.

A

Yes, counselor table terrific piece of work and thank you for for doing this.

B

It occurred to me that we might want to consider a two-step process. First.

B

Committees that seem to have become inactive or defunct, and.

B

Should we deliberate on whether they should we should sunset them.

B

And then, second part where we look at.

B

Govern from the point of view of governance, are there areas where we can involve citizens.

B

For new programs of work or reorganize programs at work, we've got, for example, two park boards.

B

Or committees, but no overall parks, company we've got several sustainability committees.

B

You know: we've got a blue ribbon committee, which is not permanent around the arts. Things like that.

F

But would it make sense to first look at committees that are no longer active and.

B

Should we look at whether to sunset them and then do programs, okay,.

A

Good suggestions, yeah. I would agree with that. Okay,.

G

Yeah and thank you, council cook for putting this list together so.

G

Once I saw this list this morning, I started to send out some of the emails.

G

To um various folks who may have information, for example, the chief building inspector.

G

In terms the of the you know, board of plumbing examiners, building code of.

G

Code board of appeals building commission to have him double check the state statutes um and get any.

G

Information he has from his perspective because, of course, he's worked in other municipalities as.

G

And so that I could begin to pull together information to provide to this committee on.

G

Is it? Is it an appropriate item to sunset or update the ordinance, or is this something we.

G

Should re-en enliven or envision so um yeah if you want to keep going with this conversation,.

G

Just know that that was how I was starting to think of it as well, which is maybe we.

G

Work with a low-hanging fruit, so to speak of those that maybe it's just time to take off the books or.

G

Have that conversation about do they need a reboot. So thank you.

A

I would add one more layer to this discussion as well. I think this is a really good start to.

A

Start with maybe the the easy things to handle first, whether or not something is defunct or.

A

Should be revisited and then and talk about maybe restructuring a little bit if necessary,.

A

And have that discussion? I think that we also need to have a discussion and you'll see this.

A

In my notations on rotation, I always say rotation question mark in reviewing the.

A

Terms lists for all of these, the committees and boards that are appointed by in the ordinance.

A

Several of them have terms that are off schedule. The only one I think when going.

A

Through and looking at terms that were on schedule, the only one on schedule was the recreation board.

A

Which kind of has three three and three um terms and they're on a normal rotation, whereas all of.

A

Our other rotations over the years have gotten off schedule, so that is another thing that the.

A

Council asked us to address so we also have to include that in their review and that's why I.

A

Notated them as rotation. You know um when, whenever there's appointments that are off schedule, so.

A

um So that's another part, I guess that's the third part of the review that we have to address as well.

A

But I think that counselor tabor's suggestion is a good one, starting there.

A

Then, once we're through the committee structure, we also have to talk about ordinance, review.

A

The questions I have around ordnance review is, we will automatically be discussing the.

A

Ordinances by discussing the committees, at least those that are established by ordinance.

A

But not all committees are established by ordinance and there are other things also.

A

In the ordinance that we probably should just at least review in the administrative ordinance.

A

So my suggestion under ordinance review would be that we start by dealing with committees.

A

And we fix anything in the ordinance that needs to be changed around the committees.

A

And then we go through and review everything else in the ordinance after that.

A

um To make sure we're consistent, does that seem like a reasonable schedule? Yeah, okay, okay,.

A

And I think that that's all we have for today on discussion of committee. So um following the.

A

Schedule that counselor table suggested we'll start our next.

A

Meeting by looking at those that are defunct or inactive.

B

And yes, if I could, would it make sense to get input from staff on some of those or at least a.

B

Little history yep, that's uh I I agree. Yes, that's why I was mentioning. I had already reached out.

G

To the building inspector thinking, I could begin to put together information for the next meeting.

B

B

Maybe copies of the ordinances that created them sure, so we've got to all read those.

A

And I think that we have most of these. The reason that I know about them is, I pulled them from the.

A

Ordinance so they're in the administrative code already, which I think everyone has a packet that.

A

Includes that so that's where I pulled them from otherwise I wouldn't have known they existed.

A

Frankly, um several of them go through the administrative code.

B

Using the search function for each of these, yes, they should be there.

A

And some of them, um I I knew existed because they're on the website, but I didn't go and look.

A

At the ordinance related to it, for example, um cemetery committee, we know was just established.

A

By ordinance, um I didn't need to go back and look at the cemetery committee and you'll notice.

A

Reporting the city council established by ordinance they're two years by the mayor.

A

Standing and I have a question on rotation only because they're appointed for two years, the way.

A

Same way, a blue ribbon committee is appointed appointed they're, one of only two standing.

A

Committees appointed that way, so the question is not whether or not that's that's a problem.

A

The question is, is: is that the way that we do, we want to have two standing committees established.

A

By ordinance that are appointed in the way blue ribbon committees are appointed. So that's that's a.

A

Bigger question um so, but I didn't have to go look at the ordinance for that one so, but the others.

A

That are potentially inactive. That's how I found them so.

A

Are there any other comments.

A

I'm going to open up to public comment on this portion of the meeting.

I

S3 kennedy 41 pickering ave, I'd love to see a copy of what has been put together.

I

We didn't get the information as the public, and I just want to make a quick comment on the fact. What.

I

You did to send it to a local government center. I did the one in 2014 to local government center.

I

They're very good they're, very supportive. They will look at it in terms of legal for state law.

I

They're, on top of these kinds of things, they have different attorneys that work on different issues.

I

So, unlike um the attorneys here at the city, they're practical they're, just uh you know.

I

They they're a jackable or jill of all trades. um They have specialties there. The other thing.

I

That um we sent to the local government center was when we were looking at, who had to sign financial.

I

Funding for reforms and a lot of the stuff that we did came out of what we got from the local.

I

Government center, at the time another counselor and I went and met with a local government center.

I

Took our information from the city on what the financial responsibilities and what you had to.

I

Report and that kind of thing and took our rules that we had here and then came back to the city.

I

With the information- and it was a different point of view- that wasn't, um it was again more local.

I

It was more driven from state laws that weren't necessarily in our ordinance at the time, and it.

I

Really gave us an idea of who should report what and both times I felt very supportive as the 2014.

I

That came out of the fact that we had the ethics complaint on the zooming board that I thought was.

I

um Interesting and not appropriately done and um as as uh mr club said, it's on the website.

I

So it's there so I know the city's attorney said he didn't have it, but it is on the website.

I

So I think it's I'm glad to see you do that. I think it gives us another perspective given.

I

This is so controversial, given that it's so in-depth and given that I heard even everyone.

I

Say that it was political, I think it's good to have another outside source, given the fact.

I

Too, that you betting in the city management and all our attorneys are under the city management.

I

So they have to honor with the city manager because they want to save their jobs. So I get that.

I

But this way you'll get another point of view. So I appreciate that. Thank you.

A

Any additional comment: yes,.

E

Feature huda, 280, south street I'd like to thank you councillor cook, for.

E

Going through this, I think this is long overdue. um The one thing I would ask that you add to this.

E

Is uh if a committee was allotted in a funds taxpayer funds- and that is still sitting out there.

E

And what the status of that would be the what comes to mind here are.

E

Our speak or funds that uh were previously um allotted or given uh to a committee that does not.

E

Exist anymore, so um I would ask that you um that you look at that and the only other thing is.

E

If you could put that out before your meeting, so the rest of us can take a peek. Thank you.

A

Any additional comment: is there any comment online.

A

A

um Okay, seeing no additional public comment, then I'll close.

A

The public comment session for this meeting is there any other business.

A

Okay with no other business I'll ask for a motion to adjourn second, all in favor, aye, okay,.

A