City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Governance Committee, 13 Jun 2022

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From YouTube: 6.13.2022 Governance Committee

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6.13.2022 Governance Committee

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Okay, we're started all right. um Welcome everyone uh to the governance committee meeting.

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I'm going to start today with a real call.

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Counselor lombardi here councillor tabor here and I'm councilor cook and I am present.

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um The next item on the agenda is approval of minutes from our meeting on may 31st 2022.

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um Did anyone did everyone have an opportunity to look at the draft minutes.

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Can I get a motion to approve the minute so moved? Second, any questions or comments on the minutes.

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All in favor aye aye, the minutes are approved.

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Currently, the governance committee is discussing.

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Committees and ordinances to sunset, and so we have a list of those committees, I'm going to pull up.

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The list of committees for us first and then we have a guest speaker today.

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I'm going to invite to speak. Let me share my screen for everyone, so you can see.

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See exactly uh just a second, it's not cooperating.

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I love this discussion, it's hilarious, um so, let's see if I can share my screen, it's gone away.

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I am slept there. You are still up there. Yes, all right, where's, my zoom link.

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There I am okay share screen.

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There we go so these are the committees that we're discussing this is the list I usually can zoom in a little.

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And so everyone has a little bit better visual. The first committee that we're going to start with is.

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The portsmouth heritage museum board, for which we had questions at our last session, around necessity.

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Of the portsmouth heritage, museum board, specifically on record retention and archiving.

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And so we've invited christine friese our library director to come in and speak with us today.

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So I will turn it over to her and ask her if, if she can help us, if she knows anything about.

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This portsmouth heritage museum board and, if um otherwise, about archives and library, storage,.

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Okay, the board itself. I do not have background on. I will say that, however,.

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Right before the pandemic hit city hall and the library had an ongoing discussion about.

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What to do about various types of records, and it became clear that we have.

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Different interests in the records, but we all are interested in the records and so a.

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Group of people from city hall, from different departments here, including finance and legal.

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Along with our archivists, the people in charge of the library's special collections.

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Got together and talked about well, what are the criteria for things? So there are.

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The legal requirements by the state or by the city or maybe the federal even and then there is.

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What we think will actually be valuable to um to the city years from now, even if it's not.

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Required that we keep it and among those things are the things that our special collections know.

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Are in big demand from people studying, portsmouth and seacoast history and genealogy, so there are.

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Items that perhaps we don't have to keep for 200 years, but people go back and look at tax records.

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And look at wills and look at you know other items from history: the history of houses.

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Various interactions with houses- maybe building you know when things were added on people, come.

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And look for their the history of their house in portsmouth all the time when people buy a.

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House particularly, but sometimes when they're going to renovate to look for that and what we.

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Discovered in those discussions is that we have a pretty vibrant partnership with several places in.

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The city, including discover portsmouth and the athenaeum, along with the library and city hall,.

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And it was, it was fairly clear, although we hadn't identified storage issues or.

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Some of the more detailed nuances of archiving that we did have a good bit of expertise between.

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Us in terms of what the legal and financial ramifications were and in terms of how best.

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To archive things and how to protect them over the years and then where they could be, I think one of.

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Our issues we looked at was duplication because we don't want to duplicate efforts and if city hall.

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Has copies and the library has copies and the athenaeum has copies? That's a lot of things as.

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We know it just keeps growing, so the size, the the storage issues were big, but we seem to have a good.

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Collection of expertise, so I'm not sure what the board adds to that collection of of expertise.

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And of interests, I think the that interest of what we should keep is pretty broad as well.

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Questions yeah. I have a question. um I brought it up at the last meeting and that is that.

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Ellen is on the is a proprietor of the athenaeum and.

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And is on the board of the historical society, so both those organizations are dealing with.

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um Storage of valuable records- oh yes, and it just strikes me that.

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All these records are connected, they are, and so uh I just wonder if there's a potential of having a.

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Controlled storage facility that is larger than just the library.

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But that it's you know, can be a service to the community as well, and um you know, participate in.

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The storage of all these valuable records so that that's! That was my question. I I can't speak for.

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City hall and the other players, but I know that both the athenaeum and the library are feeling.

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Squeezed for space- and this came up and as you'll have noticed during the.

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Budget process, you know the big issue here is where and who pays for it.

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We don't have the space. The athenaeum clearly does not have the space for what they've got.

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And if discover portsmouth has space well, we know it wasn't it wasn't enough space for the library.

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So I'm I'm not sure as and it keeps growing so we don't throw away the 200 year old documents.

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We don't now some of those could be digitized, but a lot of them are rare, potentially important.

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Documents that we need to keep in perpetuity- and I don't I was not in on those initial conversations.

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Our previous director was involved in that we have that history between him and our head of reference.

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We can certainly ask them questions, but I know that the feeling was that that would be great.

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But how to ask that question too about this? um I think council ombari's idea is.

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A really great idea, it would be a wonderful contribution to everybody in the city.

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Agreed if that could happen, if somebody could do it, um but and clearly the city could do it if it.

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Yeah and that's why I wanted to ask these next few questions.

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Would to do something like he has suggested, would you would you have to have.

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A specialized facility, you know fireproof walls or those, you know those shelves just you know.

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Roll back and forth on wheels and all that stuff, or for some of it, you would, in our special.

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Collections, we have temperature and humidity control. We have a special alarm if the temperature.

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Goes above something I get notified and the and the heating people get notified so keeping.

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Humidity, you need a place and then you have to put all that stuff in correct and I'm not I'm.

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Not an archivist, so I can't tell you which pieces I know there are things that are not in our vault.

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And I don't know if that's because there's no rumor, because they don't really need the same.

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Humidity and temperature, but I do know that we have quite a bit the maps a lot of paper.

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Needs that humidity and it needs the cool temperature. So yes to answer your question.

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So if the city wanted to do something like that, so you have to find a place, so you would have.

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To buy that stuff that you just talked about put it in that place and then find some way to to.

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Staff it with people to you, know it kind of becomes kind of a big deal. It is, it is and.

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I think that's what they came to two years ago is: this is a big deal. I mean I've seen that function.

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uh Taken under the wing of state universities in some places for local collections well, they have.

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You know a state history archive out of you state university and then towns and cities and.

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Even private donors all donate their records, we don't have a university in portsmouth.

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Yeah, but you know in this city the interest in that kind of stuff is.

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I think far greater than most cities, yeah people really care about those yeah yeah and if you had.

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A repository for all that stuff people would use it and those and those partnerships I mentioned. I.

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Think are different from anywhere. I've worked the ability to work effectively with the historical.

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Society and with the athenaeum who have the same interests and some of the same expertise.

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um Is really huge records and records yeah all of the content, um so I have a question around.

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uh Our committee structure, what makes sense for um for us to be considering, as far as to address an.

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Issue like this, should we still have a portsmouth heritage museum board, or should we be considering.

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Kind of a committee that is run from the library standpoint, because you guys have the expertise to.

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To do that and already making those connections in the community I just. I would like to have your.

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Opinion on that, because I believe this board was initially established to create those discussions.

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Okay and those discussions started happening, and then we ended up with discover portsmouth and.

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um So a lot has happened since this was initially envisioned, and I don't know organically, where.

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Where should that be, um I'm not sure what your options are in terms of board construction, but.

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I do think that among our entities- city, hall, library and then the two outside entities.

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There's a lot of know-how in there and and I'm I'm not sure how much else there is in the community.

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But I think that those people have had this have started this discussion and do know the content.

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We're talking about and do know the options um now. You know it would be helpful to be communicating.

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What they're, finding with the board with the council, I mean because, um as we say, if there's.

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Gonna, if we're gonna go forward, it's gonna be a matter of property and budget and other things.

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That affect you, that makes sense. Does it um does it make sense in some ways to maybe shift this to.

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A committee structure for things like grants would it help to have have it kind of a committee.

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Under the city to apply for grants, I know that that helped with their submit cemetery committee. I.

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Think that's for bob, but I would guess so because the city could be the fiscal agent. I would think.

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The city is probably eligible for more grants than almost anybody else, so that makes sense to me.

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And am I correct, we could ask, we could act as fiscal agent if someone else got a grant.

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As well so yeah okay, so I would also just throw in strawberry bank too. Oh, yes, you know, and it's.

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Because I'm sure they I mean they have a lot of space, but.

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Not storage specialized space- yes, yes agreed and I'd also throw in that.

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um You need special fire suppression, correct systems as well right sprinklers.

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The current committee does it have citizens on it or is it all, I'm sorry the board or yeah? What was.

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The heritage museum board that I do not know here. Let me look up the ordinance again.

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Second, these, unfortunately, the ordinances are not in alphabetical order. Chronological.

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So here um the current membership, the membership as established, was five members, mayor, city manager.

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Director of the library two citizens of portsmouth, one appointed by the mayor and one person she'll.

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Be appointed by the trustees of prescott park, so I think that this was, I mean this was before we had.

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Kind of a sense of um of the organizations in town that were doing.

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This kind of work I mean clearly the you know, trustees of prescott, I mean a lot of this- is just.

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It's just really outdated at this point, um so this would probably be uh need a whole revamp.

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To keep this ordinance in place at this stage, and maybe it just should be rethought and renamed.

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Too, and so represented represents more of what we're talking about. um Why would there.

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Be the prescott park trustees. Is it something to do with the president yeah? You know probably.

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It was established in 1988, so I imagine there was a lot around strawberry bank.

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Too and thinking around strawberry bank, when it came to museum heritage.

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So that doesn't make any sense anymore didn't yeah. Maybe it didn't make it then you have the option.

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To simply sunset that and create a different, yes task force, or I'm not sure with an ordinance, is.

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What you, what all your options are, but right we can create, through ordinance or through a.

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City council special committee, either of those, would probably work right if it's a longer term.

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Thing I would think that we would want to do an ordinance um if it's if it's a project.

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Maybe a special committee, so that's the that's the challenge. Do we do we modify the current ordinance.

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Because it's probably you know or just scrap it and write a new ordinance.

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To establish a permanent committee, or do we set up a blue ribbon committee.

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Which is a lot easier to do just set up a blue ribbon committee and then have them.

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The committee itself decide whether or not it needs to be a permanent.

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Committee um and decide that the makeup of that make we can make recommendations on a blue ribbon.

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Committee, whereas an ordinance, it's it's very set right. um So so uh you know, I think that it would.

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Be nice to know from from your perspective, what would be most useful, because I think that the.

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Library's really kind of been the lead in these discussions, and so we want to make sure that we.

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Are kind of addressing this from your perspective, what would be most effective? Okay. Thank you. um I.

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Think, given what it was set out, what it set out to do that kind of scrapping and starting over.

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Makes sense to me and what makes more sense to me is a committee or task force to kind of say.

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What are the parameters of this to determine? What's going to be needed as an ordinance later.

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Because I can see if, especially if we are able to build a location and ha and need budget for.

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That location, I can see that needing to be an ongoing committee or board, but I think initially.

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Just to figure out what that that is, might be more flexible to have the blue ribbon committee.

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Or a task force or okay yeah. Thank you. Thank you does. Does anyone have other questions? Would you.

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Have more, I thought you had. I thought you had more uh the uh you know. I guess I've probably gone as.

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Far as I I can at the moment, but I really like that, I'm sitting there kind of captivated with.

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The idea of a you know a dedicated historical document, location fort knox. For uh there you go.

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Well, you know the there's the national archive well, of course, there are state archives.

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Why couldn't we have a city archive I'm intrigued with that? I I also think it could be.

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Public money- or it could be some philanthropist- he says I want to have created that would create.

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Some ones or something yeah, exactly ongoing foundation.

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Well, you know to stand it up. Obviously, you need a place and you need temperature control and the.

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Staffing fire suppression. You need to stack that door. I will say that among the the staffing is.

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The kind of last thing I would look at because so many of these things, once indexed and potentially.

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Digitized could be accessible online unless the actual document needed it needed to be touched.

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So I would think in the list of where I would go with this it would, it would be more the space.

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And the protection and the protecting the items that are coming in, like the ones that that we.

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Found in the beginning of this discussion, you know how do we keep them safe but once they're there? I.

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Think it's it's not like staffing, a branch library um which is a lot of staff, and I think it would be.

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Very helpful to have these discussions across these organizations because there there is a.

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Lot of shared resource already, um and it would be nice to have a resource that is a public private.

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Partnership with these non-profit organizations agreed um just for the sense that they hold a lot.

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Of our heritage that the city doesn't hold and a lot of the city's documents are sitting in.

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Basements in file cabinets, it would be helpful to get them out as well, so to have that that shared.

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Arrangement, I think, would be quite nice. I agree, and these are existing partnerships. I mean these.

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Are people that we've we've had partnerships with for a long time, so it's easy enough to do.

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Yeah, you know it's funny what historians find interesting too yeah things that you wouldn't.

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It wouldn't occur to you or worth keeping or you know, water bills. Historians would really.

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Look at water bills of properties in the city and they'd make great findings from that, whereas the.

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Average person grows them up right and who would have thought 100 years ago. That's, I think, that's.

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One of the issues that archivists look at is you know, based on what we know, people are looking.

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For when they're doing their genealogy or the history of the town, what are we creating now.

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That needs to be protected because it's not going to just stop it's it's everything as.

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You say the water bills, it's going to be meeting minutes and and recordings of your meetings that.

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Someone in 50 years is going to say, wow, look at look what that board decided right and- and we.

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Have to be thinking too, about um long-term storage for those things correct aside from the cloud or.

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You know: how do you store electronic data in the long run, to preserve it, or is electronic data even.

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The way to do it, you know the pro I went to some seminar or something once I remember somebody said.

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If you really want to keep a record forever, that people will always be able to read, keep it on high.

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Quality paper yeah- and this is what the archivists tell me: yeah they do, but there are things whether.

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It's for preservation or for access. As you know, we have a lot of digitized collections at the.

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Library- and we just keep doing that because there are people around the country who want.

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To access it and not come here, so it could be both it's for the access right. You have the have the.

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Archive for the right paper, but then we have things like climate change and water in this area.

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That we have to look at in terms of where do you put it? It's um is it on site? Is it off-site? Is it.

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Yes, that's the thing I'm concerned about I'm concerned about records being stored in a.

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Basement setting and having water issues right um in the long run, um and we need to be well above.

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The high-water mark for storage, so whatever that is it's changing. It's a nice hill in new market.

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So, thank you. Does anyone have any other questions before um I? I would say.

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I I thought of the organizations that I know of I don't know if there are other.

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Organizations that correct you know, maybe you know, maybe the uh masons. Maybe you know.

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Places like that, you know, or individuals or individuals, what does sherm pridum got in his.

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Yeah office, my gosh and these people go to their call to glory. You know. They'll probably want to.

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Donate it to the athenaeum or the library or right somewhere yeah, so they were constantly.

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This this can become a major issue. um You know I at one point when I lived in.

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Exeter was on the extra historical society board and we did not have space to store.

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People's collections and people would donate a collection to you and, if it didn't come with.

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um Additional funds for storage and maintenance- um you couldn't take the donation, and so it would end.

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Up some of those donations that were left in wills when people didn't weren't thinking about whether.

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Or not, um the historical society could take it. Those donations would then go to the state.

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Instead of going to extra, which the intention was to go to exeter, but but if a donation would.

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Come in without funding for maintenance and no storage possibilities, they couldn't.

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Accept it you know, so so that's a challenge as well having clear guidelines around donations.

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Which they did have, but not everybody pays attention to that and having a facility and.

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And having kind of that information widely available is helpful as well, and I think.

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That's why eventually, having that permanent board is important because, as you're doing.

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Right now, and as we do at the library, you constantly reassess your policies.

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And you assess the technologies. What are the changes that we went from microfilm to.

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Microfiche to the cloud you know what what is the next technology that we're going to have to.

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Migrate to, and also what are, the policies around donations and that'll be different in 10 years. So.

B

Thank you. I hope that helps yeah. I guess I I would ask I mean we went.

C

You know 100 percent to documents and um archives, but I don't know if there are other.

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Things that this portrait heritage museum board cared for cared for, and I might I'm just wondering.

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If there are other things, yeah, the library that we have realia collections, they're, the ones that we.

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Have digitized and we're still digitizing again donated from 100 and some years ago and.

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Delicate and those are those are on our digital collections- I don't know what this board cared for.

B

Besides papers, yeah, I don't know either I mean, I guess, I'm wondering if, if it was beyond archiving.

C

If their interest was beyond archiving um and from my reading of the ordinance it's basically, they.

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They wanted to make sure there was growth and improvement of the portsmouth heritage, museum.

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Subject to approval of the city council you know it was. It was about having a strong portsmouth.

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Heritage museum, which I think is it can, it would be it would be very challenging since we don't.

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Have a portsmouth heritage museum at this point to leave this, as is- um and I don't know that.

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The city is in the business anymore, of supporting any of the museums directly. In that sense, besides.

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Working cooperation, aside from the public private partnership for the discover center.

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By the way, the discover center has officially changed their name to.

C

The portsmouth historical society- I know oh yeah, I wonder if they change it on the lease.

B

It's a different committee, the legal party.

A

Yeah, so so that is that's the challenge around this ordinance. I think it's just envision.

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Something that doesn't exist at this point so so yeah um any any other questions before.

E

Well, I think it brings us back to.

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We have a committee that envisioned the heritage, museum heritage, museum, never happened.

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But we have this intriguing possibility of of archiving the city's history somewhere.

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So you know it would seem that the old heritage museum committee could phase out quietly die, but.

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It would seem we'd want to maybe some kind of practice, oriented or task force oriented.

E

Mayor's reuben committee, maybe.

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To explore some kind of archive, it's been nice to hear from the historical society yeah yeah.

C

I think well, obviously, in the name- and you know one of the things you might run into.

C

Of course is: um what would you call it? uh I mean just there are people who are.

C

I'm lost for the word, but you know priorities, priorities and well and also you know.

C

This is our collection right, defensive list.

B

And this is kind of where I was thinking when you were talking about the state. You know a university.

B

This is I've seen this happen in other places where each town is saying. No, but that's our town.

B

But I think the partnership that we're talking about, if you, if you identified a committee.

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Task force blue ribbon committee and gave it a task of bringing back recommendations. I think.

B

Having those discussions with all those entities and saying yeah, how much can you let go of and.

B

How much can you not if we had, you know if that maybe they'll come up and I'm just brainstorming.

B

If we had a place, would you have a shared space, but a section that is owned by the athenaeum.

B

Not owned but rented lease um by the athenaeum and controlled by them.

B

Correct yeah, I think there are ways to do it simply because the people that I know involved.

B

In this are are so worried about protecting these pieces that I think that there would be a lot of.

B

Give in terms of how how we share not that they would hand everything over to the city, but that.

B

We would be able to partner effectively yeah, I I thought of it as a partnership rather than.

C

The city, taking it all correct, yeah and I would see the library as the.

A

The organization within the city that has the expertise to maintain kind of those.

A

Those archives um and and kind of be the point in terms of archival expertise. I agree. I think the.

B

City has a lot of the um expertise around what has to be kept, what's vital to the city city documents.

B

At least not library documents, but city documents, the other thing is, I think, eventually having a.

B

City committee that sits with the city as opposed to a public private.

B

Simply in the long term, when those private entities will shift they'll change their name.

B

The city government, I suspect, is going to be here for a while, so I think that that's the stabilizing.

B

Center around which you know if two of those other entities merged or one went away- god forbid, they.

B

Just changed what their focus is. We would still be here right. So that's my last thought. Thank you.

B

Thank you so much okay, you know where to find me yeah, oh yeah, wonderful,.

A

Thank you for joining us today. I really appreciate it have a good time. Yeah bye-bye.

A

Yeah, that would be thank you um so um with that said, I'll share my screen again.

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And so portsmouth heritage museum board.

A

If we all agree, um I will alter this one I'll, make it yellow, like the others as a defunct, but I'll.

A

Put a note here, instead of defunct to change this to say um sunset with um new committee.

A

um Does that is that what yeah a new committee to study historical archive? Okay, a new committee.

A

To study historical archive, okay, does that seem like a reasonable? I think we're all enthusiastic.

E

About counselor lombardi's idea. Yes, I do, I think it's a wonderful idea and you know and it it was.

A

Really um hammered home to me when I was at the athenian for an exhibit last week, and they said oh.

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We're just really worried about this documentation and not having a place to go, and so I thought, oh.

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You know this is this: is a real problem? What's been the burning issue for the organization.

E

Is the sheer volume and weight of their exhibits in the building they're in.

E

And what are they going to do as they run out of space? What did you call it new committee? um We.

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Called sunset with new committee to study historical arc archive.

A

So this is the first one that I've come back to us with.

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That we've come back with a recommendation for something new. If we go back to the top of the list,.

A

We had several that we had decided were defunct board of health board of plumbing examiners.

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uh Building, commission micro enterprise advisory committee yeah and we had input from staff on.

E

All of those yes, exactly um the pierce island committee, um I'm gonna, stop, share and show you the.

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Minutes from the last meeting, so that everybody is aware of where we are.

A

With with that, let's see if they're quietly bumping themselves off right.

D

Yes, you know what I haven't. You know that's unusual. I I got calls from some committee.

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Members and they're not happy about that. Okay, so this is a discussion we're going to have.

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To have with pierce island, this is the extent of the last committee meeting minutes update.

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On final projects and expanding the community meeting minutes they're about equal in terms of.

C

Detail, I will share this with you. It's been a committee over the years where.

D

Seemingly irrelevant issues and all have been very important personalities, uh turf wars. That kind.

D

Of stuff- and that's actually probably a pretty good committee that serves a pretty good purpose.

D

uh You know what happens at pierce islands important.

D

So when I saw that vote, I thought this is this is one of those old ghosts and goblins coming back.

D

Some way or another, um it's interesting, because I think that there's probably.

A

A discussion worth having around the pierce island committee.

A

Because it's a committee for a park space in the city or one space that the city has- and I think.

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That, um in our next round of discussions, when we talk about what we need as far as committees,.

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I think that there are a few of these that we have to discuss in relation to that between the.

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Master plan committee for prescott park and pierce island and trees and greenery as well.

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Which is related but not the same as parks, but I think it's it's worth having a discussion.

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Around purpose for pierce island committee, I think at this point um do we um I'm happy to.

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Go back and check with the leadership there to try to find out and attend their next meeting if they.

A

Have another meeting they're not having another meeting they've sunseted themselves? Okay, all right.

C

I forget who the two staff members from public works are on that.

C

Committee, it's a coron, um but it would be probably useful to have a conversation with.

C

Them I can't tell you who they are yeah. That would probably be a list.

A

Actually, interestingly enough.

A

They, the listing, does not list the staff members yeah for the committee yeah. This.

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This was a real club.

A

So maybe um you know we could also just allow them to sunset.

A

If we felt that that made sense established by ordinance yes well right, we'd have to.

D

Remove the ordnance, but we can allow them to sunset, if that is the, that is the desire of.

C

The committee there are people who were just new to that committee who really wanted to.

C

Be on it and wanted to do something with it and it and they came up with a lot of resistance.

C

From the old guard yeah, we just they said you know. Well, we've done our job.

E

What what's the ordinance say, its program of work is um the powers.

A

The powers and duties or the committee shall provide advice and recommendations. The city.

A

Manager and the city council, with respect to all issues affecting the development and use.

A

Of pierce island, including the solicitation and acceptance of grants, the expenditure of.

A

Any funds for specific improvements and any expenditures from the pearce island trust fund.

A

Nothing herein shall limit the power of the city, council or city manager to take immediate action.

A

In the event of exigent circumstances, and then it shall be the responsibility of the.

A

Pierce island committee to encourage the use and enhancement of pierce island in the manor, which.

A

Maximizes, the value and use of the island for the residents of the city of portsmouth.

A

While minimizing the impact on the environmental condition and natural beauty of the island, so it's.

A

Interesting if it does sunset- and there is trust fund, then that would go to the trustees of the.

A

Trust fund to administer so that doesn't that shouldn't be a problem. That's the default, but.

A

The purpose of the pierce island committee is not very different than the purpose of any.

A

Committee, that's overseeing other parks or various recreation areas in the city as well. So so I think.

A

There's a bigger question here around: what's the purpose of having a committee just for one.

A

Space, that is part of the city um versus um kind of an over arching committee, that.

A

Looks at this this park space and other park space within the city. Do you happen to know.

E

How much the port pierce island trust fund is what the corpus of that is. I don't, but I can find out.

D

Really quickly, okay, in fact, if you wanna believe I'll grab that okay.

C

Yeah, I don't you know.

C

Pierce island is a kind of a unique place and I mean when I moved here, um it was a mess of a.

C

Place I mean it was. It was a real problem. Yeah there was a murder out there. There was a murder.

C

There was drugs, I mean it was, you know there was uh rapes, um you know it was admins.

C

And so I think I think this committee was set up specifically to address some of that.

C

Do we have the date that it was um it's not here in the ordinance um it was amended in 99.

A

The duties were so, I kind of remember around 88., I suspect, you're right. It was around the time of.

E

The murder chaos out there, some of the.

C

I think, having kind of an overall parks committee is a big task.

C

I mean it's a very big task, oh and I'm just.

C

I wonder if it's too big to assign to a committee.

C

Unless it's, unless it's really becomes something more like a commission.

A

Right right, I think I would envision it that way. Like the recreation board, you know the recreation.

A

Board oversees recreation throughout the city. It's a huge task. um It's at several sites.

A

You know several facilities that we maintain and the recreation board oversees that I think.

A

I would envision a parks committee as overseeing all the parks space within the city and working in.

A

Cooperation with the recreation board, where there is rec, where there are recreation facilities at.

A

Parks and I think that one of the one of the great disadvantages of having individual park.

A

Committees is that certain parks get more attention than other parks like um prescott.

A

Park and pierce island right, whereas goodwin park, has no one overseeing it and it's a very.

A

Prominent park space um right in the middle of the city right and are we're fortunate, because our.

A

Department of public works does a great job of maintaining this these spaces, but there isn't a.

A

An overarching committee that says you know we need to develop more playground space on this.

A

Side of the city right, for example, so maybe we should be looking at a playground in one of these.

A

Park spaces that we have as a city or um we need more green space on this part of in this part of.

A

The city is there any land um that the city owns in this part that could be dedicated to park space.

A

That we're not thinking about um so you're thinking about a parks and recreation.

A

Well parks and leaving rec board as it is letting the rec board manage the recreation, but maybe they.

A

Would communicate well with each other, and there would be some crossover between the two committees.

C

Either have to assume that or.

C

Make it so right create some cooperation? Well, the the other lost opportunity.

E

Is we have a lot of parks, but what's the programming in them prescott park? Obviously you.

E

Know from the very start, 40 years has had the arts festival, but it's got other programming. It's got.

E

Yoga, it's got the gardens, it's got um all kinds of things that happen there. Pierce island.

E

You know has the pool it has the dog walks, it has the volleyball, it has, in other words,.

E

Those are parks that have four tree island included in pierce, island, yeah, sure.

E

So you know no.

E

Facilities or programming in the other parks that I know of.

A

No um and could be playgrounds right, they're, just playgrounds well, and we have like the south mill.

A

Pond recreation area, essentially that but it's a tennis courts and.

A

Shared with the schools and uh field, but there's also a dog park there right and the only recourse.

A

For residents, if they have a an issue, there is to go directly to dpw, rather than coming to talk to.

A

A committee and saying you know I'm having some challenges around the dog park, specifically at.

A

South mill pond um having an overarching parks committee would provide residents.

A

An opportunity to offer suggestions around that space, but also the lovely park that is just going.

A

East from the dog park up the hill in front of city hall that no one ever talks about.

A

Right, we don't talk about that park space and I don't even know if there's a name for that park.

C

Is there a name for that park? I missed that first time the park across from city hall right where.

E

The tennis carts tennis courts goes between south and lincoln. Let's get the word south in it. I know.

D

That, okay, so there's a lovely park there. There is haven park as well there's goodwin park. um I don't.

A

Know the name: there's a lovely park, space at maple haven, yeah, the end of the neighborhood there's.

A

There there's a small park space um over off bartlett, you know, so we have lots of park spaces.

A

In the city, there's even more than that for sure yeah right right, there's south mill, playground.

A

So they're just park spaces throughout the city. We've also got some of the biggest green space in.

E

The city is jones avenue and the new land around the the turf playing field right that land and the.

C

Trails all through there right and currently and there's going to be a new park space technically.

A

At the skateboard park right, so what happens? I I fear, is when you only have a recreation.

A

Board and you don't have a parks committee, no one's talking about other opportunities for those.

A

Green spaces, there are a lot of people in the city that would like to have more green.

A

Space and less recreation, whereas others want more recreation and less green space. So then.

A

It's helpful to have community campus right. There's community campus.

A

So there's a lot of space that um I think we're not talking about. From kind of that that bigger.

A

Picture level beyond capital improvement projects and maintenance, that's being done by the city.

A

um And and the capital improvement projects are completely at this point, not driven by a committee.

A

Right or committee discussions are driven just by needs um coming from dpw or the recreation board.

A

And so there's inherently a bias towards recreation activities in open space rather than.

A

Open space for the sake of green space and what's recreation for people over 55, yes, green space.

E

And you look at.

E

Only 17 of the households in this city have kids.

E

And I raised kids here and I loved raising kids here, but the growing demographic is is 55 plus.

E

So I think that factors into the whole recreation and parks equation. If I can.

D

Report back on my mission: yes, finance department, uh there is a pierce island trust and it has 11.

D

458 dollars and 13 cents, it needs a seven person committee or maybe not okay,.

A

A

I I think it's it's reasonable to have this.

A

Bigger conversation at this stage, just because, if pierce island is going to.

A

Sunset, even if there are people who've, just joined, who had exciting um exciting plans for pierce.

A

Island committee, you know, maybe they would have those same plans being part of a bigger committee.

A

Or a different committee, I just I just think the charge of a larger committee is much larger than.

C

D

Yeah, it's a it's a much bigger commitment for people. Yes, absolutely and.

E

You know, aside from.

E

City staff, acting on the master plan, what outreach do we have to.

E

Find acquire and add more park space because every master plan we've had says we want green space.

E

Well, here's one that pretty much nobody knows there's huge city park in the town of madberry. Yes,.

C

Beautiful beautiful park, beautiful wonderful trails.

A

I think it's important to remember that we have a lot of there's a lot of property. That's owned.

A

By the city, that's not developable, too, um that we could be talking about as park space.

E

But maybe a different type of park space- that's the jones avenue! You know we were going to put a.

E

Middle school there until people got concerned that it was on top of a landfill for one thing,.

C

It's the great bog too the great bomb park yeah it does fit. The city's definition of bark.

D

Yeah but if you had a you know, I've seen lovely um boardwalks in spaces like that.

A

That are um sensitive to conservation, but provide an opportunity and a space like that for it to be.

A

Trails all through the grapevine yep yep. So so, if you, if you had a parked committee, maybe you'd.

A

Have a map of the great bog for people? You know with trails that people could and people could.

A

Access it right, especially since it's going to be it's right next to what will be the new rail trail.

A

Yeah and skate park- it's that kind of the thing that I'm thinking about that it would be nice.

A

To have a committee talking about all of the the spaces that are available so would they be.

C

In space also looking at trails, then you could have mountain bike trails, walking trails.

E

Boardwalks, like they have out at the nature, preserve at peas, yeah, that's beautiful.

A

Yeah, I think you could have all kinds of park spaces within the city.

A

And- and you would have to create a close relationship, then, with the recreation board.

A

As well, um I think you have to be careful about joining mountain bikes and walking trails.

A

Right and, and that is part of the challenge- is having those discussions around what is.

A

A walking space, what is a hiking space? What is a mountain biking space? You know we have those.

A

Those issues throughout the state of new hampshire, on even on things like rail trails, you know, do.

A

We have three wheelers and four-wheelers on rail trails. Well, some of them. Yes, you know.

A

Does it make sense coming right through the middle of a city.

A

It's another discussion right and that's a state state-run state owned facility. I think.

A

They're different they're, not all the same. Some of them are mostly reserved for bikes and walking.

A

And others are specifically open to snowmobiles in the winter right, so so.

C

It looks like what we're going to propose.

C

Is um we'll let pure silent committee sunset move the money to the trust fund there? Well so.

C

C

Or maybe that's already there um and begin to work on.

C

You know a uh if you will parks and recreation committee.

A

Which would be a new, a new ordinance for parks and.

C

C

Yeah, it could be helpful perhaps to have.

E

Five minutes summary from the planning director of what the master plans have said about parks.

E

Over the years and maybe hear from todd henley on programming.

E

In the parks, recreational programming in the parks.

E

Or lack of it right, yeah and maybe from um peter rice on uh maintenance of spaces and.

A

And any planning that's being done at dpw around park spaces yeah yeah, I think by default the dpw.

E

Director is running the parks right now. Yeah so it'd be interesting to get his.

E

Perspective right well, anytime, I'm getting involved in city issues concerning open.

D

Space in the parks and stuff peter brits is always the guy yeah. That's right, interesting.

C

That's right, okay, so maybe we'll talk to um the planning director and environmental planning right.

A

There will be spaces within the city that may be designated parks, but are designated.

A

As spaces that we don't want people in as well for conservation purposes, right.

A

So that makes sense, maybe I can set up. I can try to set that up set up a discussion.

A

I don't know if you want to have that at our next meeting. I can start that process. Sure, okay, is it.

E

Is that one of our more important uh communities yeah, because there's pending yeah.

A

So I'm going to change pierce island here to yellow and I'm going to say, voted to sunset.

A

Discussion around parks, rack committee, okay,.

A

A

Let's get through these few others, but we have bob's attention here.

A

The personnel advisory board is the next item and um I think bob can speak to this. My understanding.

A

Is it's in the charter yeah charter, section 3.15 and uh it's it's a half a page, but what it really.

D

Comes down to is the personnel appeals board was set up to be a place where employees could.

D

In effect, uh grieve disciplinary actions against them, it has very, very largely been.

D

Superseded by collective bargaining agreements, a number of city employees now who are not in a.

D

In a bargaining unit is a couple handfuls and if you're in a bargaining unit, then.

D

Every bargain by law has to have a grievance. An agreement by law has to have a grievance procedure.

D

And that has taken over from the personnel appeals board, but there are still some employees.

D

That are not in the union and if they were disciplined, for example, they would.

D

Have resort to the personal appeals board, but I do not believe that in my time here.

D

There has ever been a resort to the personal appeals board. I do not recall a single.

D

Case you're calling a personal appeals board and then it's listed as a personnel advisory board.

D

Yeah here it's called in the chart. It's appeals board. Okay, so I'm going to change the name of it.

A

Here I think it was listed on the website as advisory board, but it should be appeals. Then.

A

And um if it's, if it's in the charter, is there any reason at all that we should even consider.

A

Changing, or should we just leave it alone, according to legal yeah, the process will be.

A

So much more onerous than you know: sunsetting the pierce island committee, for example, that it's you.

D

Know maybe best, and there are, as they say at least a theoretical possibility- that some city employer.

D

Will want to resort to it so so then you set it up. Okay, so we'll call this as active yeah as needed.

A

And we'll do something as needed active. I do happen to know that just before I got here so.

D

This is more than 40 years ago there was a public works director, yeah, gordon hanches, who in fact.

D

Did follow this process when the city manager started fire? Okay, it's there. It's theoretical.

D

Anyway, so I took it out of consideration completely on my list and changed it to.

A

Yes, I just changed it to clear and clean it's there and I'm going to take it out of bold.

A

So that it doesn't need to have anything done, it's left as needed, and I put charter legal.

A

It's in the charter and so since it's in the charter, I think that when we finish this process.

A

We'll just make sure that anything that's listed anywhere on our websites, um I'll work with the.

A

City clerk on this that it's listed, that it says so on the website. This is established in charter.

A

Yes, so that people are aware so that no one goes through this exercise again in a few years.

A

And thinks we need to address this. You know, as a matter of fact, for your information as counselors.

D

The chart amendment process, if it's gonna, it's if it's gonna happen,.

D

uh That the next election, for example, really needs to begin right about now. Yeah yeah, very.

E

Much later than august, right, it'll very soon, it'll be too late to amend the charter. This year.

D

Right, that's logical. um The portsmouth housing endowment fund board.

A

I didn't, I think that that one is.

A

Is defunct, I still don't have a full answer on it. The last appointments occurred in 2013 and 11.

C

You have to be considered on that and I have it to be consolidated. They're considered, um I don't.

A

I don't have clear guidance on this one, yet.

A

I was going to work with portsmouth housing authority to find out what the status is.

A

But they've been a bit busy as of late as we all know, um so I feel like now that they have.

D

Broken they've done their ribbon cutting on a new building. I will gladly reach out and double check.

A

On this one before we completely sunset it, so it's a portsmouth housing, endowment fun board.

C

Yes, so is that endowment fund handled by the trustees is it? uh I think there were two.

D

And uh one of them, I know, was funded at the time that mariners, village.

D

Went to a chapter 11 bankruptcy and the new owner developing into osprey landing.

D

There was some money that came out of that somehow and of course, that was the affordable housing.

D

Really a full browser, so some money got put into some kind of a trust for the at that time and.

D

That that is one of the sources of money we're talking about and the other one is joe sartel.

D

Was involved in setting up something and, and the one I just mentioned- is city control, joe.

D

Sartel set up one, which is the new hampshire um charitable, the charm foundation. I remember that.

D

And uh and the and the board commission that we're talking about just gives advice on how to spend.

D

Money from that private trust, it's not a city, okay, look! How they fit together was that when he.

C

Put crossroads house in the uh prescott the building on prescott park, it might have been yeah.

D

I know I I know how to find out. I mean you know I can yeah I could get. The answers is that.

E

A significant amount of money or is it in the charitable foundation? It was a lot. It was a.

D

Lot of money, I think yeah yeah, he matched he matched uh two to one on on that. I think.

B

Interesting, okay, so if there's no other concern, I will double check this one. The portsmouth housing.

A

Authority and see if it is indeed defunct, it does not have. Recent appointments is what I will say.

A

The most recent appointment was like 2013., but we might not have the term data on that as well.

A

Let's just take a have, we got time to look at the ordinance itself. um Portsmouth housing endowment.

A

Sorry, it takes a second here. We go of course, portsmouth housing, endowment fund, advisory.

A

Board: um seven voting members, a realtor, maintaining an office in the city of portsmouth.

A

Who shall reside in portsmouth a residential real estate banker, who's a resident of.

A

Portsmouth, a local appraiser who's, a resident of portsmouth, a city resident where's, brighton.

A

A representative of the portsmouth housing corporation, an administrative official of the.

A

City from the bureau of community and economic development, who shall be an ex-officio member.

A

An administrative of the of the city from the legal department who shall be an ex-officio member.

A

All members shall be appointed by the mayor and the council, with the exception of the city.

A

Officials who shall be designated by the city manager um appointed to serve three-year terms.

A

um Without compensation, powers, formulate general policies regarding the operation operation.

A

Of the program, including application criteria, establishing specific policies, as the need may.

A

Arise dictated by the program demands advise the city, manager and city staff with regard to opera.

A

Operation of the program, an advisory group shall not have authority over the investment.

A

Of the portsmouth housing endowment fund, trust which functions functions shall remain with the.

A

Trustees of the trust funds and the advisory group shall meet at least semi-annually.

A

And may be called by the city manager, the stat city staff representatives or upon the request.

A

Of the advisory board on five days notice, which notice may be waived in an emergency.

E

So there is some program that that was attached to yes, and there is money in the trust funds.

A

There's money in the trust funds and I'm just not sure.

A

If this still exists, it might be like that economic development um grant that's gone now.

A

And so there's no reason for them to meet, and that might be why we haven't seen appointments since.

A

2013., I wonder if it's the housing, affordable housing endowment that we talked about at the.

E

Council, which is small, but it's like 100 000 or a hundred and two hundred thousand dollars or so.

E

I think it was, I don't know, yeah.

E

And then there's this intriguing.

E

Fund at the charitable foundation.

E

Who administers that and how is that registered.

A

I don't know you know that, and this is the these are the questions that I have.

A

uh The housing authority director craig welch, was on this committee, so he should know the.

A

Status of it, so that's what I'm I was going to reach out to him. I just wanted to let them.

A

Get through their major event last week, that would be great okay. um Andrew might know too.

A

Yeah andrew and finance yeah in finance yeah, so I will reach out that's kind of the final.

A

One that I have a question mark around, because the seacoast mpo technical advisory committee.

A

um Is not one of our committees and that's why I couldn't find information about it. It's.

E

Right, damn county yeah, it's a rockingham county planning, commission committee- it's not ours! So.

A

We just have it listed because we have we've had a representative on in the past for this committee.

A

um So, that's that's why we we have it there so, and it's usually representative, is my understanding.

A

From the staff not from not appointed well, it's both actually there's always a council.

E

Representative to rockham county, yes and rockham planning meets as the mpo and they review all the.

E

Highway projects and set priorities for example, last time they said rail trail is our top priority.

E

um So it's all functioning okay, so I'm going to leave it here, as is we remove this from our.

A

List because it's not our committee right, so it shouldn't be on the city listing it'll, be.

A

On rockingham planning, um I don't know what color I'm going to make that, but it's yeah and I think.

E

Councilor moreau is the liaison right that was appointed by the mayor, so.

A

Yes, so it's not orange! So it's not something that we need to consider again, but it's something that I need to take action on. So I'm going to make it green for now.

A

Just to make sure that we remove it that we take that action, um so we only have one.

A

Left that we need to find out about the housing endowment fund board as far as sun setting or.

A

And so that's and the all the committees in yellow are the ones that will send that.

A

We have talked about sunsetting, so that's how there are a huge number here that that we can.

A

Sunset at this stage, oh, I was going to give an update the von maul blue ribbon committee and the.

C

Strategic planning committee- oh the worst, yes bridge, they made all their recommendations already.

A

And finished their work and all of that went to department of public works. So the recommendation.

A

From staff was to go ahead and just sunset for those two as well, and that if we needed.

A

Another committee, we would establish another committee at this stage, so we taking that off.

C

Yeah, so I put them staff from mecca men's sunset and I made them yellow. So all the.

A

Sunsetted committees are in yellow at this stage, so renewable energy blue ribbon committee. Yes,.

A

Because that's now an inner energy, well renewable energy became sustainable practices and then enter.

A

Energy advisory as well so and renewable energy, completed their report and actually had a policy.

E

That was passed by the council so right, so um so a lot of these these committees and.

A

Organizations did great work when they were present, but they're just not doing that work.

A

Anymore, so it's time to remove them. What about the building commission? um It doesn't exist anymore,.

A

That was the information we received from staff. Is that it's it's not relevant to the work.

A

That they're doing at this stage, so so I think that's it so we have several ordinances.

A

um That is part of our final review, we'll be able to recommend to remove these ordinances.

A

And we'll start working with legal on developing a red line of the administrative code with.

A

Ordinances that can can be removed at this stage right and then one you didn't have on.

C

There was the committee that I'm going to this afternoon is the public access finance.

C

Advisory committee- okay and I'm going to add that because we don't have it on the list, no, I know.

C

I but I'm on it, so I know it's still there. It's helpful to know um it's called the public access.

C

Financial advisory committee, okay, so public access, financial advisory committee and it's by ordinance.

A

huh How did I miss that, then it's it's hard to find. Okay, it meets once a year. Okay, okay! Oh I.

D

Know that one yeah, so that's appointed by the city council, andrew yeah, and it's a standing committee.

A

Does it have any public access he's talking about? Is public access to telecommunications? It's the.

D

It's the public access channel on cable tv. uh So what what this commitment is.

A

Yeah well, but what this committee does is: there's um we get money from comcast, basically and.

C

The only purpose of this committee is to designate the amount of money that we.

C

Give from what we get to comcast from comcast to the uh ppmt ppmtv! If the public access money that.

D

Comes from comcast goes into a trust. It doesn't go to directly to the public access channel.

D

And the committee that that vince is talking about meets once a year and approves the budget for.

D

The public access channel people to spend money from that trust, okay,.

A

It makes sense well, we now have it on the committee list. Okay, it would be helpful to me.

A

So that we make sure we have a listing, I can I can um well this. No, I have, I have the ordinance for it.

D

Well, one of the reasons why it might have been hard to find is, I think it's set up.

D

By the trust, oh no, but I think you no angel gave me the ordinance from it. So I have that I.

C

Will I will scan it and send it to you? Okay, he gave it to me yeah I like glue. Well, I'm almost.

D

Certain I thought it was good well, this is helpful because it's nice to I want to make sure we have a.

A

Complete listing, I think it's in trust, I remember, writing it or being involved in writing. It.

A

Yeah, it's helpful to have a complete listing available online so that everybody can see all.

A

The organs all the committees, boards commissions, blue room committees- that we have so that'll be.

A

Helpful to have and how it's established, what ordinance so that people can look.

A

That information up um so I'm going to also is there I'm going to share now the.

A

Appointed boards and commissions and terms list that I also have um today.

A

um uh Let me see if I can pull it up. Let me try one more to us too. No, it's just available on.

A

The website, so um that's right! Yes, if I can find it, I know some of these things are hard to find.

A

Yeah it doesn't, um it doesn't want me to pull it up so here there got it. So here is.

A

The list of our current- this is what's available on the website.

A

The list of portsmouth city council appointed boards and commissions, and so what I did is I went.

A

Through this boards and commissions- and I was just going to give you guys a quick overview- um this.

A

Is that next item committee appointment rotation schedule um I went through and looked at the dates.

A

Of of people's rotations on and off these boards, and so, for example, um the first committee- that's.

A

Listed if I can get to the first page, doesn't want to get me. The first page is the audit committee.

A

And the ordinance for this committee um establishes an unusual rotation.

A

um But what will happen? Because of the way that the ordinances is written.

A

Three members shall be for three year terms and two members for two-year terms. All members.

A

Shall serve three years? Will there are only three people appointed and then there are.

A

Two city councillors appointed, so in effect all three individuals have well one has a two-year.

A

Term but then two have three-year terms, but you don't have what's envisioned here.

A

And you essentially have everybody being appointed again in short order. You have two appointed in.

A

Short order, and so the the rotation doesn't work if you have currently, unless you had more members.

A

Because you're going to have a year that you don't have anyone appointed um which is supposed to be.

A

A five member term, I think the assumption was that you would have city council reps filling in there.

A

But currently with that, you have three people leaving around the same time and two at another.

A

Time and when you have three of your turns before we go, take a deep dive into the rotation.

C

Is this committee something that.

C

Is really appropriate.

D

Yeah I gotta go.

A

Think this is a hello question. Well, and I mean it seems to me that this is a city council.

C

Responsibility, it is and, and it is a staff responsibility to do the work of it to.

C

Submit create and submit put out requests for proposals. Let's take all that. Do that type of work.

C

I guess I would sunset it myself can I can I say something here. I think this is correct on everything you.

D

Said- and I and I don't know what your purview is, you know in terms of the considerations.

D

You should be taking into account, that is a would be a hugely political decision in and.

D

You know people would come in with guns blazing. If you try to do that, and I just you know so you.

D

You know it's something for you to think about if it wasn't for the gun, blazing thing I'd be.

A

So that we can get through this list and talk about all the different terms.

A

And challenges around it is this something that you would be willing to bring back to.

A

The committee for the next committee session for discussion sure, if we're.

A

Going to talk about parks that maybe we can also okay, I will add it to the list.

A

Then um for our next committee meeting and we can have a more robust discussion around that.

D

That'll be a public comment session. You wouldn't want to miss it's going to be law on me. Isn't it.

A

So uh with that said, so what I was trying to point out is the stagger, doesn't work.

A

Very I wasn't trying to run for re-election anyway. You know what I would say about the.

D

Stagger is, I know, suzanne woodland wrote that language yes, so we ought to give her a chance to.

A

Right yeah, I think the intent was there was an existing committee with an existing.

E

Person so he would slide in for uh two years and then the others would be appointed.

E

For three years right, so it would all line up, so it would all line up. That was the intention right.

E

It didn't quite work that way right, sometimes it just doesn't work, and I think that that's.

A

What we're going to see in a lot of these committees when we're going through them, um so.

A

When, like you, look at the building code board of appeals, which is the next one, I'm going to.

A

Enlarge this even more five members, two alternates they have five year terms.

A

Well, the challenge: if you look at the terms here, I'm kind of trying to highlight.

A

Is that if you have five members and they have five year terms, you should appoint one each year.

A

Essentially, if you want a healthy rotation right, but unfortunately we have two members in 2023.

A

Two members in 2022, so we don't have a healthy rotation and we have a someone listed here.

A

As a committee member, whose term was supposed to expire in 2018., so it's really unclear.

A

What the staggers this is, the building code board of appeals and the 2018 rotation out was one of.

A

The alternates, so I don't know if that alternate is still serving or not, and it's the same with.

A

Another member is listed as expiring in in 2020., so it's not really clear to me that the rotation.

A

Is accurate, and even if it were, we shouldn't have two members of a five-member committee that have.

A

Five-Year terms both rotating off at the same time should be one each year they meet very.

D

Infrequently but they do mean right so so this is one of those where we need to rework the next.

A

One down I'll, tell you which one this is, is the cable, television and communications commission.

A

And there are, this is difficult because they're supposed to be five members and one alternate.

A

Three-Year terms for reappointments and two-year terms for initial appointments.

A

But really um from from what I can tell is we only have two members. We have one.

A

That left in 2019, so we don't even have five members. We have.

A

Several vacancies here, so, even if they met this committee, they don't have a quorum, they don't have.

A

A quorum right, so we have to have a discussion around. So how do you we need to be talking about.

A

How do you we need to be staffing? Those the next one is the cemetery committee. This one is fine.

A

And the reason it's fine is because it's ordinance says the terms coincide with the council term.

A

So they just get reimported every two years, yeah so that one's fine blessed be simple. Yes,.

A

That one's very simple right, um so then you go to the citizens advisory committee here.

A

um I think these individuals still serve, but unfortunately um let me see if I can.

A

Scroll over and we don't, we don't know that they still serve because we don't have in terms so so.

A

This is one of those I need to talk to the city clerk and see if these people are still serving.

A

And who's serving and what their terms are and if they're staggered correctly.

A

um The city-wide neighborhood um blue ribbon committee, which I think is.

A

Not really a blue ribbon. Well, it is a blue ribbon committee, still um it's not by ordinance, but it's.

A

Yeah so, but it's got precedent of what 12 14 years, something like that goes back to.

D

Everyone everyone's surrounded, so it's probably 20 something years. So um some of these that have been.

A

Blue ribbon committees for a long time we have to ask ourselves: do we establish them by ordinance.

A

Because we want them to be around um or do they just serve their purposes? Blue ribbon committee.

A

Because we have um committees, like the cemetery committee that are appointed to.

A

Serve the same terms as the council, that is not an unreasonable thing to do, and so this one's fine.

A

They're reappointed to the end of the council term uh conservation commission um is way off on terms.

A

So um they should have seven members, two alternates. They should have three year terms.

A

Okay, so by my calculation, then um you should have three three and three rotating off in.

A

In um 20 23 20 24 20 um 20 25, but what we have is we have six rotating off in 2023, 2 and 2024 and.

A

We still have one listed as 2022 as an alternate so who might not have reapplied so so that stagger.

A

Is way off for the conservation commission, um the economic development commission um a little far.

A

It's hard when I'm scrolled in this far doesn't like to hey come on little page when they're there.

A

So for the economic development commission, which is at the bottom of this page, we'll.

A

See if I can do it this way there you can see the terms. Nine members four-year terms.

A

uh For 2022 we have three members: rotating off 20 23; none 20, 24, 2 and 20 25 5 rotating off.

A

Okay, the problem with that is that you should have, if you have.

A

Four-Year terms- and you have several individuals that serve on this committee as um they serve as.

A

Appointees that have their own time frame term, um like uh the mayor, serves.

A

uh Two city councilors serve as well. um Our economic development director, the city manager.

A

They don't have terms, but then of the nine. You would think that you'd have um three.

A

Three and or two two two, you know four so so we just don't have a healthy rotation there, either.

A

um And- and so this is what I'm finding when I'm going through most of these, so you know.

A

The etsy sports is fine. The fee schedule study committee is fine, although these should be 2023.

A

The historic district commission is off as well. um We have uh seven members, two alternates for.

A

Three year terms, uh which would mean we'd, need a rotation of two two and three, and in that three.

A

You have an alternate right, one, two three-year terms um three-year terms for the historic.

A

District commission, they they they always have had two-year terms, but I think because the mayor.

C

Put new people in as voting members. That's what happened! Oh interesting! So so that's.

C

What it's listed so that corrupted that yeah? So this is so we have five people rotating off.

A

Some of those have been reappointed already for the next three year term, in 2022, one in 2023.

A

2 and 20 24. so that staggers way off as well housing authority has got it right on track.

A

So this is what I wanted to see when I'm seeing one for the housing authority.

A

We had five members five year terms, there's one in each year from 2023 to 2027.

A

So that's what we should see when it's appointed accurately um the library trustees.

A

Are short a member, and also um the library trustees are generally.

A

Off just a little two and twenty two, twenty two, two four and twenty twenty three two and twenty.

A

Twenty four, um so then we get to parking traffic safety. This one is, is really skewed as well. They.

A

Get three year terms: we have none reappointed in 2022, one in 2023 and that's an alternate position.

A

And four in 2024, which means you're gonna, turn over the whole board. At the same time,.

A

Pierce island is sun setting. um Let me see if I can get to page four, um the next one that I think.

A

Is a concern is on page like the next to last page. um The planning board also has challenges.

A

There are no appointments in 2022, there are three in 2023 and five in 2024, and these are nine.

A

Members three-year terms plus two alternatives. I think the same thing happened there that the mayor.

C

uh Appointed instead of um an alternate, a full member, yeah and.

A

And so this is, the challenge, though, is, is how we fix this. The recreation board is on track.

A

Ten members three-year terms: we have three in 2023 two in 2024, two in 2025., um so that's where.

A

We should be and three been reappointed and the sustainable practices blue ribbon committee. That's.

A

um This is a real challenge. This committee, I think the way that they're appointed because.

A

It's a blue ribbon committee. Technically, I would think everybody gets reappointed.

A

Every two years, but we have people who've, been appointed to this committee since 2006 and never.

A

Been reappointed once people are appointed to this committee they're, just there forever.

A

There's not a until they just choose not to be there. So that's really unclear to me.

A

How that was established and why we don't have any rotation at all.

D

Well, I think your instinct is correct it you know they they're. That committee ends every two years.

D

Right revitalized and reappointed reappointed, any blue ribbon committee, I think, should be in.

A

That situation, um that's my understanding. The mayor of points blue ribbon committees,.

A

um Treason, public greenery again one in 2022, none in 2023, five in 2024.

A

um We essentially had lots and lots of appointments that occurred from what I'm.

A

Seeing in 2021 um and so then we ended up with people um for whatever reason, leaving.

A

Probably and then they had to be replaced, but unfortunately they weren't replacing.

A

They didn't put people in to fill the remainder of a term. They just appointed them for a full term.

A

um The trustees of the trust fund rotates appropriately here, 2023 2024 2025.

A

But then you get to the zoning board when I'm not clear on the veterans organization.

A

The appointment- I don't know if uh bob lister's appointment here if, when that gets renewed or.

A

How that gets renewed and what kind of rotation, or, if it's just established um the zoning board.

A

Also has some challenges as well: there are two appointments in 2022, none in 2023, two in 2024.

A

One in 2025 and two in 2026., so um I'm not sure what kind of adjustment needs to take place there.

A

But that's another discussion as well you're talking about the planning board. um This is.

A

The zoning board of adjustment- oh zba cba, so so essentially, by going through this and looking at.

A

All these stagger terms, what I wanted to highlight is how far off so many of our committees are.

A

In having appropriate, stagger interns, and I wanted to make a recommendation which is going to require.

A

A lot of work, but I wanted to get some feedback here because we need to discuss the best way.

A

To handle this, these term challenges, um I thought that it would be appropriate for.

A

All the established commissions, boards and committees that are established by ordinance.

A

To go back and look at when they were established and what the terms were when they were initially.

A

Established and then follow those terms out and who was repo appointed to replace, who and we're.

A

Anywhere in that term list, where we find somebody resigning early from their term and somebody.

A

Coming in to replace, we should flag that and say: okay, how many years were left in that term that.

A

That new person should have actually stepped into the role fulfilled the term rather than fulfilling.

A

That, rather than serving an additional whatever number of years, three five years, whatever the.

A

Committee was and kind of follow that track out and readjust the terms based.

A

Upon what they should be for those filling, so we might have in some committees, for example,.

A

Somebody was pointed in the 1980s so if to fulfill the end of a term but got a full.

A

Term, instead of fulfilling the end of somebody else's term, which means we would need to take a.

A

Year and a half off of a term of a current person serving in that in that same position and instead.

A

Of having people appointed for terms, we have positions appointed, so you have nine members each.

A

Each position on that board- one through nine, has a term three years. If it's a three-year term.

A

Yeah and whoever's in that term fills that term, so somebody might even get appointed to serve two.

A

Months to fill out the end of a term but they're filling terms, it's not individuals that have a.

A

Three-Year term it's the position that has a term yeah, so they'd have to political, go ahead. Yeah one.

C

There right, but this is I'm trying to create a way that we do go back and do the research it might.

A

Mean that our current mayor has fewer appointments in the end, because some of some of those rotations.

A

There are some that are really beneficial right now to him that he's going to get a.

A

Lot of appointments, um I think the hdc was one of them right, but um and his appointees are.

A

Going to serve longer currently, but by doing um by readjusting this, we can get back on.

A

That schedule, and no one we wouldn't know we have no idea who would benefit right now from.

A

Those appointments is the way that I'm looking at it from those shifts, because it may be back.

A

20 years, where we find that the stagger's off so there's a part, a and a part b, part a is the lookup.

E

And part b is the policy change that these are terms, not individuals? So if somebody's.

E

Appointed to fill two months of a remaining term they'd have to be reappointed. Yes, okay.

A

My sense, that's that's more. The spirit of the ordinance in general is that you have so that.

A

You have the rotation is part of the spirit of the ordinance um in all of these cases, for all of.

A

These committees, and then by not having a healthy rotation, you lose expertise at the wrong time. You.

A

Don't build up expertise when you reappoint a board and you have to reappoint everybody on it.

A

Except for one person that person has their expertise has to carry the whole board.

A

For a significant period of time,.

E

The land use boards, though, are those are by state statute right they are, they are so.

E

Is the state statute silent on that or state statute is fairly silent.

A

On because what happens, is they didn't? Well again, they ignored filling positions that are vacated.

A

And the state statute does say something I don't remember, which one and our legal counsel.

A

Can correct me here if I'm wrong but says that somebody would fulfill the remainder of a term.

A

And they could be reappointed, um or maybe that's in our ordinance itself that it says somebody.

A

Feels the remainder of a term, but I think somewhere we got off there on a few of those.

A

Yeah, I can't do it from memory.

E

But we would have the authority as a city as a municipality, to have our own interpretation.

E

Of the state statute to say these are terms, not people, and you know interim appointments to fill.

E

Out a vacancy have to be reappointed yeah. I know the planning board's quite specific.

A

I think and what's interesting is when I was going back and reading it and I'm not an attorney and.

A

I'm definitely not a municipal attorney um it. The intention was pretty clear that the the goal.

A

Was to establish a healthy rotation of members, and once you get to a point where you're not.

A

You don't have a healthy rotation of members. I don't think that you're you're necessarily.

A

um In the spirit of the rsa anymore, yeah, there's a limit to the number of appointees. The mayor can do.

E

Per year, there's quite a bit of controversy at the moment on the planning board in which the chair.

D

And the staff and the legal department and outside council even have little disagreements on what the.

D

Process could be and who's eligible and that's sort of ongoing uh it will get resolved. I think.

D

At the planning board level itself in the pretty foreseeable future, because it's.

D

Kind of coming that way, so I guess what I'm saying is stay tuned on the planning.

A

I would like to have a policy that we just approach all of our boards.

A

And all of our commissions in the same way, and we look at all of them.

A

And we use the same method for looking at everyone, so that there it is clear that there is no bias.

A

And that we're taking approach, an approach that um is historical, that we're looking at the historical.

A

Appointments and trying to track back, which physician was appointed when and to make sure that.

A

We we establish a healthy rotation without having any preferential treatment to anybody's appointees.

A

In particular, um I think that that's my goal is to find have a very fair process.

A

That um follows where we should have been at this point: um it's it would require a lot of research.

C

I guess I'm trying to figure out the best process to correct this problem. I don't know.

E

What it is, and maybe that that's one approach to it, but I don't I'd- have to really think about it.

D

Would be nice if we could just come up with some blanket way.

D

By taking one vote, for example, that the city council could create the proper kind of staggering.

D

That you know think about that. There might be some. You know like it's kind of a vision.

D

In my head that there'd be a way to say in making all appointments to all boards. You know.

D

Something that follows that that means there's automatically going to be the.

D

Right kind of stagger, my concern is, I don't want anyone who's currently serving and sitting.

A

To feel like, they were arbitrarily chosen to have their their length of their term shortened.

A

um You know I want to make sure everybody understands that. That's because you know six.

A

Years ago, when we appointed to this board, we appointed to some somebody to fill the.

A

Remainder of a term, but they served longer, and so we have to readjust your position.

A

Backwards that doesn't mean you can't be reappointed again. You know you can.

A

Be reappointed again, it's just a matter of making sure that you're appointed to the correct term for.

A

Your position on that board well, and we also want whatever this universal policy, is to deal with.

E

Like the blue ribbon sustainability committee, where.

E

You're appointed, but your term expires and you just keep going um so I mean the spirit.

E

Of the policy that we're looking at is that um appointments are staggered so that there is.

E

Institutional knowledge preserved.

E

E

Is the best way to achieve that to say we're appointing terms not people.

E

I mean there's a lot, there's some sound logic to that. I certainly like the idea that.

E

Somebody who's appointed to fill out a vacancy, gets reappointed.

E

Rather than serve some.

E

Weird length of time, that's out of out of sync with the rest of the board.

E

Is that, and is that what's happening now I don't, I think, currently what we're doing.

A

Is we're appointing people to serve the full time they replace somebody? Even if somebody left early.

A

Yeah, that's that's, what's happened, yes, and it's happened across the board in every one of our.

A

Every one of our committees so that we're not ending up with a.

A

Stagger in terms and in some of them it's pretty egregious at this point.

A

Because, for whatever reason, several individuals left at the same time.

A

It's a real challenge, then, because you also are in a situation with um say.

A

Our current mayor had the opportunity to appoint reappoint almost an entire board.

A

Which it looks to me like that is almost the case with the hdc at this point.

A

Then the next mayor, assuming it's a different mayor, maybe the current mayor, a gun, would not.

A

Have any opportunity to appoint anyone to that board and so there'd be a question around and.

A

You know say the next mayor had a particular interest in historic districts and what was.

A

Going on in historic cities wouldn't have any opportunity to appoint two members.

A

To that um so so then you have um you, don't necessarily get the benefit of the expertise.

A

Of that mayor necessarily making those appointments.

A

And I think that over time, the challenge around that is, that it's helpful to have different eyes.

A

On the people serving on these committees and having different mayors, appointing them over.

A

Time because everyone has a different perspective and knows different people within the community.

A

So that is one of the disadvantages: there's less diversity in committees in this sense- and you have.

A

A tendency to have only one viewpoint represented when one person appoints the majority on that.

A

Committee and then you end up with you, don't have a healthy discussion on issues which I think is.

A

Not good for anybody in the city, we should not always agree yeah, and I think some of the boards.

E

Had vacancies that appeared between the last year's election and the and the new.

E

Council coming in and as a result, you know those vacancies were filled with alacrity and.

E

That's one reason we have so so many openings. What three years from now you know we should.

E

It's been a recommendation to us to consider.

E

E

Should those appointments wait for the new mayor and council? Well, here's a problem! That's.

D

Happened in the recent that we know what you're talking about is not hypothetical.

D

It's happened in our recent memory and uh one of the problems that.

D

That I've seen is this: some of these boards and commissions, here's to the planning board and the.

D

Zoning board are by and large, make quasi-judicial decisions. They are supposed to be neutral.

D

And when a person gets appointed to one of those boards because, let's say they're, anti-development.

D

Then that that is not an appointment that actually meets the purpose for which that board exists. It's.

D

The opposite: it's like appointing somebody to be a judge because they think everybody.

D

Who gets arrested is guilty, it's just not you know, so I'm wondering if maybe the answer is.

D

Specify in the ordinance what deployment criteria should be, you know keeping in mind that this is.

D

A quasi-judicial position, employment should be a person, who's demonstrated.

D

Neutrality and you know, ability to make impartiality.

D

Yeah something like that, because that you know I mean that's the problem we've seen.

A

I don't think it's unreasonable to look at the ordinance as well and.

A

Consider adding language around that based on the ones that are quasi-judicial and some.

D

Of them, of course, are not someone you can have unknown predisposition and that's fine. You may.

D

Get appointed for that reason, but not on a quasi-judicial board.

A

The only challenge is that there is no recourse if somebody doesn't serve in a uh non-um prejudicial.

A

Stance for removal yeah in the rsa there's no on most of those boards said the city council can.

D

Remove board members for cars and these, but you have to cause you can't just right. You know in a.

D

Really egregious case of somebody demonstrating a bias on a on a quiz education board that would be.

D

Cause I'm in my opinion- and I certainly don't want to carry that ball pretty far, so you know.

A

But that's a challenge: you know that wouldn't prevent you know that wouldn't fix the rotation.

A

Necessarily yeah wouldn't preserve expertise, which I think is one of the.

A

The great values of people serving for more than a few years on one of these boards, as they.

A

They share their knowledge and and expertise and over time um that really benefits the city.

A

I think that's why, when, when we reviewed the rules, we changed the rules so that there was no.

A

Special review, if somebody had served more than 10 years, because we appreciate their expertise.

A

So so I think we've already even discussed that. um So this is something that we need to think about.

A

Like how are we going to, um how are we going to do this? One of the things that I'm happy to do is to.

A

Sit down with the city clerk and see if what I'm suggesting is even feasible um like I'll pick out.

A

One of these right: let's just do a feasibility test. Yes, yeah! Really, let's see if this is even.

A

A feasible process because some of these boards commissions go back a long ways. Yes, so determining.

A

Who rotated off and who filled what role will be a long process? I think, and it might be, we cut it off.

A

At a certain year, I don't know if it doesn't. If we get to a good, healthy rotation, I don't know.

A

But I'm happy to at least do a test and see because maybe what I'm suggesting is not feasible.

A

And I'm not sure if that's the case or not, um but it'll be helpful to have that discussion.

E

I don't know that you'd have to go back to the beginning of time. I mean it may be. You.

E

But that we you'd have to discover that.

E

E

I certainly support the feasibility test because I think, let's find out if we can get.

E

That information, because I think anything, the data, crunching yeah, but anything we're trying.

C

To follow through, but it could really inform the question of do we want to appoint terms or people.

E

You know so, however, whatever amount of data, we need to inform that and know more okay.

E

Would be my sense um if you want me to also I can invite the.

A

City clerk to also come potentially to our next discussion of terms, because.

A

She would be the expert on on all these terms and advertising them and the long-term appointments.

A

Okay, it's getting kind of late.

A

Do we want to discuss this further? Do we want to continue this discussion at our next meeting.

A

Do that I'd say continue.

E

And if you could send us your worksheet with the rollovers.

E

Yes, I think that'd be good for us to study. Okay, I can do that. I have them. I have notes written.

A

In hand handwritten notes, but um what would send it to us is a spreadsheet.

E

I'll I'll I'll copy this over with my individual notes, I'll, add notes to send.

A

You um so that you have them and I'll send the spreadsheet. That also has the information.

A

On committees, so that you guys have an updated spreadsheet, I I kind of updated my spreadsheet.

C

As we were talking about, but good.

C

But I I I would let you send send yours, because I want to make sure it's right. Okay, I will do.

A

That um do we have any public comment. I don't see anybody. No, no one's signed, no one's public, okay,.

A

um So under do we have any other business um two items.

E

uh I'm on vacation the date of our next meeting; okay, so if we could meet tuesday, I'd be back.

E

Or I could just miss that one, but.

E

It's the 27th, I believe, okay.

A

I can do the 28th yeah wait a minute.

A

E

That works for me does that work for you. I have to check something: okay, I'll. Let you check.

D

A

And I will go through all your checking. What I have on the agenda for the next meeting.

A

Is a report back on the housing endowment that last committee that we're not sure on.

A

Audit committee discussion, um parcc committee discussion and feasibility on rotation, okay and.

A

And I have noted counselor tabor's interest in discussing time frame as well for appointments.

A

Specifically, following election cycles,.

E

Right and so we should really be looking at appointments in november and december, in which.

A

Boards rotate then and make it a decision around when those yeah, I think or if we change that.

E

Counselor denton, if I'm not mistaken, has spoken to shouldn't. They all just happen january 1 with the.

E

New term or after this, where, after the election year right after the election, I thought yeah yeah.

D

Yes, so the next meeting you're proposing is thursday july 28th no june 28th.

A

June 20th june 28th, unfortunately um we're we meet every two weeks.

A

We do that just so that we keep legal the legal department busy.

A

See this gets on suzanne's, gallery and mine so that.

D

We're sure somebody's here um would you like me to run down to the clerk to see if the room is.

D

You know if it's not available, we will find another space to meet in. um I know that there's.

A

Another conference room that I'll try to reserve. If that's the case and worst case scenario, is.

A

That, if we can't have this room or the room next door or a conference room upstairs, then.

A

I will try to reschedule, um but I want to find out if council lombardi would do that. First.

E

Or I could just be absent on the 27th I hate to have yeah one of three members.

E

Unfortunately, I'm on planes, so I can't attend by zoom, sounds wonderful.

C

You're saying the 28th at 10, the 28th at 10. all right. I think I can do that. Okay, all right.

A

So we will plan on the 28th at 10.. um The next meeting followed following that one currently.

A

Would be the 11th, but that is also a city council day. um I don't know how you feel about having a.

A

Meeting on the city council day, we can always push that to the 18th. If that's preferential in july,.

C

I I'm going to be away on the 18th. Okay. No, I don't mind it on the city council. Did you mind it.

E

I tend to prefer not to, but it's july I don't think we're as busy as budget time and yeah.

C

Okay, as long as I have the weekend before, okay, so that I will leave it then for um the 11th.

A

At 10 o'clock in the morning um and uh and what follows on that is a meeting on the 25th.

A

um Which there's not a there's, not a scheduled meeting that day, um I wanted to give the committee.

A

One final heads up before we leave that I am away for three mondays in august, so.

A

When we hit august the only days I am available are august, the 1st and august the 29th on mondays.

A

um I do have some time on a few tuesdays. The second 23rd 30th, so.

A

And since we're such a small committee, I try to always make sure we're all available.

A

um So that we can all attend so well, I probably.

E

I'll be back and forth to, but I'll your away dates kind of match mine. So, okay, yes, yes, I'm away the.

A

uh For quite two and a half weeks so yeah in august, I have something scheduled and then I.

C

Just check okay! So when we get to august we'll try to.

A

We'll try to fit in a meeting somewhere in august, but it's going to be a challenge to.

A

Get in more than one meeting, I think at this point so um and with that.

A

My second item was, uh I was thinking about from our discussion about parks and.

E

We have a lot of easements to the water around the city um and it seems appropriate for us and.

E

A governance committee to ask how we monitor those and keep those enforced we've had a.

E

Couple come up in the last term. I don't know that we even want to answer that today, but.

D

Well, let me give you the quick overview. There are some actually dedicated easements to the water.

D

And then, and- and there also would require some property on the water and then the third thing is.

D

There are places where the city has a paramount claim to other people, but it's not necessarily.

D

Written and then the best example of that last situation would be paper street running to the.

D

Water, very, very common, I think, there's 14 in the city and the the the way they are monitored is.

D

uh Very informally, there's no, you know nobody goes and checks them specifically.

D

It's it's a complaint system. Somebody complains complains that you know people are using an area.

D

They shouldn't or people are not being allowed to use the area they should. That kind of thing.

D

We send somebody out to check on him, and most generally would be peter brits again, although.

D

Jason page has gone as well on these situations, but I suppose the main thing is totally informal.

D

Now and the mayor at one point was interested in putting together a list of these things and.

D

And it didn't happen, I don't believe the list exists. Yeah. I think we've talked about it in.

E

The last council yeah that's what it was the mayor when he was a man. The last council talked about it.

D

But then the council term ended without it ever happening. Okay,.

E

Well, I mention it because the city attorney has one of his quiet accomplishments over.

E

The years has been to expand the city's access to the water.

E

Citizens, access to the water- I just want to make sure we protect that.

D

Yeah there's actually a lot of public access to the water in the city.

C

But a lot of it's unknown a little long. This might be um something a good subject for.

A

uh An ordinance around easements and access yeah just so, we can solidify that in rules.

A

At the council level right whether a pig, if, if something shows on a tax map as a street,.

D

Going to the water, then that that's the definition of paper street, sometimes the title issues and.

D

The actual legal interests involved in a paper street can be determining uh in a paper street.

D

Can be really complicated, involving historical and real estate, title and all kinds of stuff.

D

But the position that we take to have in order to have a uniform position on everything is if.

D

The tax map shows a paper street going to the water. Then our initial starting point is always.

D

That means that the city owns to the water and any citizen that wants to can walk there and.

D

We have to be back off of that position by legal agreement. Okay or else we don't back off it. Okay,.

E

Food for thought all right. Thank you. Yes um is there any other business.

A

Can I get a motion to adjourn second? Second, all in favor, aye, aye you're, a church.

A