City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Governance Committee, 31 May 2022

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From YouTube: 5.31.2022 Governance Committee

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5.31.2022 Governance Committee

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Thank you for everyone coming this morning on an off day since we had a holiday yesterday,.

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Start with a roll call council lombardi councillor tabor here- and I am councillor cook- and I am here.

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uh First, item on our agenda is approval of committee minutes and the meeting minutes.

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That you'll find in your packet are committee meeting minutes, starting with april the 11th.

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The reason that is is I'm going to highlight that I included march 14th on this list march.

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14Th was sent around earlier at an earlier date, was attached to a prior agenda, however march 14th.

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We didn't have a quorum in person, so we probably need to have some discussion around that. I think.

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The rules are such that you have to have a quorum in person for it technically to be considered.

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A meeting um because two of forum, two, what isn't it our quorum? Two? It is, and there were.

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Two of us on zoom that morning um was I the only one you were the only one here.

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Counselor lombardi, so the challenge around that is that um we can keep those in draft form.

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Is my understanding or just keep them, as notes from the committee meeting and.

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Make them available, which is they are now, because they were attached to an agenda, but.

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um It's probably best that we not approve them as minutes, because we technically weren't not.

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An official meeting, not an official meeting, so so really what we're looking at to approve today.

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Is april 11th april 29th and may 16th okay um and they were they were all submitted before so.

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Yes- and they were all attached to the agenda this time, um can I get a motion to approve the minutes.

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Can I get a second second, all three: are there any questions or discussions or changes to the minutes.

B

Not from me not from me, okay and not for me, so all in favor, aye, aye.

C

I, if you'd like uh counselor cook, what you could do, is adopt the notes for march.

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14Th and just call them notes instead of minutes. Okay, that's sometimes what I've been doing just to.

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Document that there was a coming together, even if it was not an official meeting just because it it.

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It's up to you, you can do it either way, but that's we can just change that word minutes to notes.

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And I should have caught that: when could we call it a work session? uh No, I just call it notes from.

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An informal meaning, you know well I'll, move to do that. Okay, second, is there any discussion, questions.

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So I'll make the adjustment just to call them notes. Rather than minutes.

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Okay, all in favor all right.

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The next item on our agenda is the updates on the ethics, ordinance and approval of final.

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Revisions, um we had an update from the legal department on discussions.

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That were had following this meeting that legal pursued first with the new hampshire.

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New hampshire municipal association and then also double checking the ethics ordinance with.

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Our own um internal human resources department um would you mind updating, yes, sure.

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So there were two items or a couple of legal related.

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Items from the last meeting so the first was there was a request to.

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Send the draft ordinance to the new hampshire municipal association for review and effectively.

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The new hampshire municipal association said nope. We will not undertake that review.

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Because the and they they sent us the the actual section from there there it is. Are there any.

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Limitations on the subject matter, we may ask about under their faq and it says, nhma's legal services.

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Do not include such matters as comprehensive legal review of contracts or other documents.

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Drafting individualized, ordinance or charters or complete review of specific applications before.

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Local boards, so they basically said nope. We will not do this for you and you also have in-house.

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Counsel- and you should you know, rely on their advice, so basically they deferred and said you're.

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You know trust your counsel on that. The other pieces is in response to.

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Some of the questions about how employees would be treated under this draft ordinance.

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I reached out to our outside labor council tom clausen and said: hey. Some questions have come.

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Up there's some language already in the draft ordinance relative to it was in section 1.803.

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Relative to discipline that referenced collective bargaining agreements and other contracts, I said.

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Should we maybe put some additional language in here to also as part of the investigation process.

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And he suggested yeah, why don't you know it wouldn't hurt? Let's put it that way to add.

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Some additional language to reflect the collective bargaining agreements, um so what I have proposed.

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Is that we add some language and I've got a draft counselor cook? If you want me to circulate what.

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I shared with you: do you want me to share this? 803 is just a single sentence. Right, that's right!.

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Right so we suggested some additional language at 1.806, which is that investigation section.

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And it would say- and I can pass around the hard copy in a minute if the employee is a member.

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Of a bargaining unit covered by the terms of a collective bargaining agreement, the investigation.

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Will comply with those provisions of the applicable collective bargaining agreement. This.

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May include, but is not limited to the employee, having union representation at any investigative.

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Interview that may lead to discipline, so I can pass this language around, but we suggested.

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That maybe we include something more in the investigation phase, to make it very clear, we're.

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Not trying to trump the collective bargaining agreements but find an integration and a.

D

B

Make me get my own: oh I'm gonna he's right here.

C

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So that was again 806. yep 806. 1.806 and I added an e again just to make it clear. Er.

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That we will have to be mindful if it's an employee covered by a collective.

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Bargaining agreement to to just get the two systems to work together.

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I don't think it's difficult, I think it just means some extra notice and it's not just your.

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Legal counsel, it may be your union representative, if you're in a collective bargaining agreement.

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So and I'm going to read this out one more time so that we make sure we have it.

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Accurately, in the record, this would be 1.806 e. It's a new section subsection. It reads if the.

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Employee is a member of a bargaining unit covered by the terms of a collective bargaining agreement.

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The investigation will comply with those provisions of the applicable.

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Applicable collective bargaining agreement- this may include, but is not limited to.

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The employee, having union representation at any investigative interview that may lead.

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To discipline okay, I want to make sure that our member of the audience sees this as well. Thank you.

B

Great, that's a good inclusion.

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Are there any questions or concerns about adding that additional provision.

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And, as you will know, in the ethics ordinance, there.

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We also cleaned up a few of the things that were marked in our last review of ethics.

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Changing a few words, there was a removal of a word 1.806, a changing a word in 1.806 b.

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So those were the minor some minor changes we suggested upon our last review.

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At this stage, since we do not have.

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We will not have a review by the new hampshire municipal association and legal has reviewed it.

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Again and also checked with labor, um I want to get the committee's thoughts on moving forward.

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With the ethics ordinance.

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I would be willing to put a motion forward to approve the final revised version.

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um I'll put that motion forward and if I get a second I'll speak to it, a little.

B

Okay, a second yeah sure.

D

We had a good discussion with.

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Members of the public- and that was the impetus to.

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Have it reviewed by the municipal municipal association I get tangled up on that.

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But I think a lot of the discussion was.

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You know: is there enough due process in the in the ordinance that everybody gets a fair chance.

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To state their case in any ethics review, and so I went back and I counted all the due process- steps.

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First, there's the sufficiency hearing, so there has to be enough substance to get over that bar.

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Second, the person who's been accused is able to make a full response to the investigating officer.

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In fact, that's required as the eio gets, the uh the person um accused their full side of the story.

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Then the board of ethics takes can take oral and written statements.

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And finally, if the board of ethics agrees, that there's a violation, there's the possibility.

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Of appealing to the city council, so there there's numerous steps there.

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To appeal- and I think that was that was the the crux of our discussion last time and.

D

So after reading that I said this is a pretty good ethics ordinance. uh Having watched what's.

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Played out in um in rochester, where they didn't have a step-by-step process with.

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Places where the accused could appeal- and I think this means that if you had a finding.

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You could safely say the person accused had.

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Numerous chances to state their version of the facts, so you know after reading it, I thought.

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It's been the result of many minds, but I think it's come out pretty well.

B

I don't think I can add anything to that. It's pretty thorough. um I I think it's.

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I think it's a well-formed ordinance and I I think it's appropriate to move it along.

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My final comments on the ordinance really.

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I'm happy with the work that's been done by this committee and all the input we've received from.

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The public and the work that the staff has done to make sure that we improve our current ordinance.

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One of the things I I like about the change is that it does add one more.

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Opportunity actually for a review, um whereas before we didn't have that opportunity.

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To present that full response, the I o things just went directly to the committee, I think it gives.

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Any person who's accused an extra opportunity, but I think that it also removes an undue burden.

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On that committee to do investigation when the committee does not necessarily.

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Have that direct expertise, so in that sense I feel like it truly improves the current process.

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And puts us in a better place, should we need to ever use the ethics ordinance.

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I will say that no ordinance is every ever perfect, and so I don't have that in anticipation that this.

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Is going to be perfect as well, but I do think it is much improved and I think that that's in.

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Government, that's one of the things that we need to do is try to improve the processes that we have.

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To make them the best that they can be, and, and hopefully this does, that.

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Is there any further discussion.

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Okay and the motion on the table is to let me get make sure I have this right to approve um this.

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Version with final revisions with final revisions, including our revision today on collective.

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Bargaining? Okay, um which means that when this group, when this committee makes that approval.

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um It then goes on to the city council, so there's another opportunity for review and approval at the.

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City council level, so really the committee is just approving this to move it forward. So just.

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Making sure that everybody in the audience knows that so with that said um all in favor aye aye.

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Thank you all for your hard work on the ethics ordinance and.

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um I will add that to the agenda for the next council session um when they have time.

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I'm not sure, I'm not sure what the agenda looks like for the next session, so it might not be.

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The next meeting- it might be the one right after we'll see what the timeline looks like.

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uh The next item on our agenda is discussion of committees and ordinances to sunset.

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If you'll recall the last meeting, we started discussing committees and one of the first steps.

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Here was to have the staff look at committees that are established in ordinance and to determine.

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Those that are not meeting whether or not they should be meeting or whether or not they are.

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Truly a sunsetted committee, so with that said, I know a lot of work has been done by.

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The staff to determine this, and so I'm going to turn this over to our deputy city manager,.

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Sam woodland, so I worked through the list that council cook had prepared and reached out to.

C

Various other departments I reached out to kim mcnamara with regard to the board of health.

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And she provided, I didn't, think, to bring the email down um a a very good, um detailed summary of.

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Why she felt it was unnecessary to have a board of health, given that we have a professional.

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Department- and that really is what it came down to- the board of health are more useful when you.

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Have a town or municipal structure, where you don't have a health department with professionals in it.

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So she was perfectly she recommended frankly, that we sunset that it has not met and from her.

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Perspective would not sue a useful purpose, given our current professional department.

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Second, I reached out to building the chief building inspector shanti wolf on a couple.

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Of those committees that are building related and he reviewed the state code and said that.

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We can do without the plumbing examiner's committee. I didn't bring my list down and.

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There was one other committee building called board of appeals. I believe that's the one. That's.

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There's one that stays. I think that's the one, that's the one. I think that stays that's said.

B

There's a standing committee, yeah, there's, there's a third one: the build building commission yep.

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That's the one: that's not needed, okay, so there are two that are not needed and I apologize in.

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My race down, I didn't bring the my committing list. um You share a list, uh you know what let me.

D

D

I can, I can actually look at it.

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Yep, so the board of plumbing examiners is now is something is not required by.

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The code and we have no indication that it's been used, the building commission again, no.

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Indication that it has been used recently- and he sees no statutory reason for it.

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There is, in the state code a requirement for a building code board of appeals.

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And so that should stay we haven't been using it. It doesn't happen very often, so that's why we.

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Actually, I don't even think we have any sitting members right now. It's I talked to attorney.

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Sullivan- and he said it's occasionally pulled together as needed, but as a general rule that.

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That body would hear.

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Basically, as you would might imagine, appeals from a building code decision and what tends.

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To happen in the field, is they they work it out because they don't want to stop construction.

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They want to get the the job done, and so the contractor and the builder.

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Work it out with the code in officials in terms of what the code actually requires so.

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That's it nice. I just shared my screen so that anyone um who decides to watch this meeting at a.

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Later date can see this listing of committees and that anyone in the room can also see it and follow.

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Along it's just a long list of committees and how they're established, who they report to their terms.

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Whether or not they're blue, ribbon or standing committee and the challenges around them.

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So and so we have a list that are defunct, we've discussed so far. The board of health.

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Which I'm highlighting the board of plumbing examiners? Which I'm highlighting and.

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Let's see if I can find it, the building commission is right.

C

Now there is building commission that can go, which is there defunct yeah.

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There are a few others on this list that we had. I had questions around, um so the micro enterprise.

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Advisory committee correct listed as defunct and my understanding is. It is indeed defunct. Yes,.

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um All right, clearly, I forgot to bring out like a whole file where I put all this stuff. It's okay.

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It's one of those mornings, the others that we I have questions on- are the personnel advisory board.

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The planning and development council.

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I don't think that that one exists anymore right. What was the last one? uh The personnel.

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Advisory board right, I'm just going through and looking at those that are listed as being defunct.

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I wish I knew how to make this larger so that it's more visible.

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I wonder if I there, aha okay, if I just make it more visible on my screen,.

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So there's the personnel advisory board there.

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And I'm going to highlight it, but in a different color. Maybe so everyone can see that.

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The planning and development council, the portsmouth economic development loan program board.

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The portsmouth heritage museum board.

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Portsmouth housing endowment fund board.

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The renewable energy policy blue ribbon committee.

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The seacoast mpo technical advisory committee.

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Strategic planning committee for von maul worth bridge.

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Revitalization and the von maul blue ribbon committee.

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Now some of these are showing up in ordinance, but some of them just show up on our website as as.

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Existing committees and it's not clear that they're not meeting anymore so as you'll notice.

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The ones that show up in the ordinance are the personnel advisory board, the planning and.

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Development council, portsmouth heritage, museum board, portsmouth housing, endowment fund board.

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The others are all just.

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On our website, as listings of committees that I don't believe, meet um yep and the.

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Is the we believe we can consolidate the portsmouth portsmouth housing endowment fund.

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Is the same really as the portsmouth housing endowment fund advisory board? We can.

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We need to collapse, those it is one board and that's active and staffed by our cdbg manager.

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The function of that board is to consult on the first time home buyer hometown program, so they.

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Have one to two meetings per year, but we have some duplicate. You know duplication so we'll.

C

Have to collapse that, on our part, um would you mind repeating that the name of the committee.

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That meets that does actually meet yep. um It's listed twice. The portsmouth housing endowment fund.

C

Is the same as the portsmouth housing endowment fund advisory board? Okay, so we need to.

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From a website perspective, we need to collapse those and work on that.

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On on our end, because that is the board again, which is part of our hometown program, and they.

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Meet one to two times a week: what is defunct is the portsmouth economic development loan.

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Program board and the micro enterprise advisory committee, these were funded. These were cdbg funded.

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Programs but the funds have all been expended, and so therefore those two can be pruned.

A

Okay and the portsmouth heritage museum board and that one I need to track down still.

C

Don't know the history for that one I did not realize get any answers for that. So then the.

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The others that are council.

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Established the renewable energy policy blue ribbon committee. um I believe that that shifted.

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After they established a policy, and now we have sustainable practices.

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And energy advisory that grew out of sustainable practices.

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Instead of having the renewable energy policy blue, ribbon committee.

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Does anyone see a reason why we need to keep the renewable energy policy blue, ribbon committee.

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C

From my perspective, it makes sense to consolidate. You know that work related to energy is is under.

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The sustainability sustainable practices right now, so it seems much more logical to fold that in.

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I know that the mayor hasn't appointed anyone to this right.

B

Some of the couple of the blue ribbon committees, uh the von maul blue ribbon committee and then the.

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um What is it called? There's another one worth the worse.

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Yeah, the worth bridge, revitalization had final reports.

B

But I guess one of the things that's happening is that the.

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um The work on both of those areas is coming up and I'm wondering if um there might be some cause.

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To not necessarily retain those committees, but uh specifically, but just I don't know somehow.

B

B

um How to maybe use that expertise in when those projects come up.

C

So would it be helpful, then, for me to go back and reach out to both? I think there was a public.

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Works component to the von maul, one at least as well as economic development and planning.

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If I reach out to those three folks and just see it was david actually on the uh on the vaughn.

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What's his last name, david moore, I'm making it here: yeah, okay, yeah.

C

um So I can follow up on that and see if um what they see coming down the pike in terms of.

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Additional need or value for a committee. Probably we could merge it into one.

B

And I mean there was a lot of good resources and I don't know maybe just some when that project comes.

B

Up, maybe we can just use the list of resources, that of people as well as documents that were.

B

Delivered there and maybe just establish a new study or something.

B

To incorporate both of those yeah, I was also trying to think. I know there was some. It was.

C

A phased kind of approach or thinking in terms of von maul because of the work that's going to.

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Go on on fleet street right, which is going to be a big bigger project than we originally intended, and.

B

All's a big project because all the utilities exactly and they tie into that fleet street.

C

System, um let me get an update on that and and report back on what the timing looks like for.

C

That that might would that help. I think it would. I think it would also like I don't know if we need.

A

Another committee component, if the if the work has been done by the committees and now it's just.

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It has to be implemented at this stage. We might not need a committee, but it would be good to know.

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What that status is, if they need the advice of a committee or at the stage were completed.

D

Did that ever get to the point of a master plan for von maul.

D

Or was it just a consultant study and I think the intent was for both of those committees to.

B

Influence the master plan, but I don't know whether that happened right because you know prescott park.

D

Resulted in a master plan that was approved by the council, mm-hmm.

D

I don't think no, this never have you ever reached that point. No! Okay! No, but like I said there was a.

C

Big relationship between what was happening on the fleet street project and we got a lot of.

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Public input on the fleet street project and now there's a conceptual plan or headed to engineering.

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To kind of work down downstream and then bring it up into fleet street after the 400th.

C

um So let me if it's okay with you, I will round up the team and I can report back and maybe I.

C

Can even flag if I can grab that final report and that might help inform where things stood.

C

Okay, yeah, I don't remember it going to the city council at all: either it was.

B

No, neither of those went to the city council yeah. My wife was on one and I was on the other.

C

Okay, so I will follow up on that and I'll also follow up on the personal advisory.

C

Board, because I am not aware that that is used at all. Okay um and planning and development council.

C

Okay and uh smith heritage museum board, that's the one! I have a question about the portsmouth.

A

Heritage museum board- I have no, I believe- does not exist anymore yeah. I I was trying to think.

C

I'm not even sure who I would ask other than yeah a large group and say interview right at.

A

Least, not as a city entity right, I think it became um an organization in the city. I don't think that.

A

It I think that this is kind of it was in order to make sure that we steward.

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The historical uh artifacts of the city, which I think are now held by portsmouth historical.

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Society and and discovery center there is.

B

I I I know that part of the cip is to deal with portsmouth records.

B

And I know because I'm very familiar with people on the historical society board and.

B

On the atheneum board, that both of those organizations are thinking about the same thing.

B

And so all those organizations are crucial to the story of portsmouth and I think that.

B

There might be a reason to continue having those conversations formally so.

B

Whether that's that committee, or whether it's something that's created to do that, I don't know.

C

I do know that um when we look at we, the city look at managing our historical records. There are.

C

Ones that we're required to keep by state statute- and there are certain requirements for that.

C

And then we often work closely with the library where, if they are records that we may not be.

C

Required to keep, but have that historical, you know storytelling. If you will of the past, we have.

C

Sometimes reached out to the library or often reached out to the library, with their archival.

C

Sort of understanding of what might be relevant, you know to the portsmouth story at a later date,.

C

To help us evaluate records um and to save records- and I know they have contacts within the historic.

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Community, so that there's an intersection of understanding in terms of who's, maintaining what.

C

For records, so I'm happy to do a little more digging on this. I can talk to the library who, like.

C

I said we we do lean on their archival services um and their perspective and expertise when it comes.

C

To deciding what to do with some of our records that are not required to be kept and whether they.

C

Should be, you know, destroyed or saved because they fit in part of a picture of the past. That.

C

Would be important to maintain, so I can try and report back a little more on on that.

C

If that's helpful, it's I think it is I you know. I just pulled up the ordinance to look.

A

At the ordinance specifically um because I want to make sure you know we don't have anything in our.

A

Ordinances that don't really reflect what what is being done. I think it's.

A

Absolutely it's critical that we preserve our historic records and preserve them. Well,.

A

I think the intent of this ordinance was truly to establish established museum. It says that.

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The portsmouth heritage museum board is hereby created to encourage the development of a facility.

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Which would provide the location for display acquisition and safekeeping of various items.

A

Which, in the opinion of the board, have special historical significance to the city of portsmouth?.

B

I think that's, I think, that's important yes, um and as I say I know I mean the athenaeum is.

B

Out of space and does not is looking to create a you know, a proper facility for record storage and.

B

I know also that the historical society is out of space and looking for the same thing,.

B

I know so if the city is looking for the same thing, maybe there's an opportunity there that can.

B

Provide everybody with a.

B

Appropriate thing appropriate location and facility.

A

You know it's interesting. The ordinance um specifically looks to the library for this. um It.

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Says that the board is made up of five members, the mayor, the city manager, the director of the library.

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Two citizens, one appointed by the mayor and one appointed by the trustees of prescott park,.

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Which is interesting so it would have to be modified anyway. At this stage,.

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And it's for two years.

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And it's intriguing because.

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They they wanted to the the board basically to recommend to the library.

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Director, the library director policies necessary for the operation of a museum.

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um And recommend a budget to the library director and promote acquisition through loan or gift of.

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Those articles of historical significance to the city presently in private ownership.

A

So I think, what's intriguing about this ordinance, is it envisions a library that, at the time.

A

I don't think we truly had, um because this was 1988 yeah. It didn't exist. Yes,.

A

We didn't have the same attention to this in the nonprofit community and we do have.

A

Special records rooms in the library as well, which was envisioned in the new library facility, so I'm.

A

Guessing that what happened is when we got to that stage, this was no longer considered needed at that.

A

Point and I think that we do need additional space for preservation for storage of records.

A

But I don't know if that's the function of the city government or if it's the function of.

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A group of non-profits working together with the library and then the city, contributing I don't.

A

Know if the city should have control over that process or if we should let hand it over to the.

A

Experts in the nonprofit world yeah, so I just view it as an opportunity to satisfy a broader need.

C

Well, I am happy to reach out to the library and see if the library representatives can come for.

C

The next meeting prepared to talk about records and what they're currently doing and how they.

C

Have conversations or not, with the other non-profits that manage.

C

Records- um and we can certainly explore that further, if that's what the committee would like.

D

Yes, I wondered if that happened around the time, dorothy von passed away.

D

Because I know she had a lot of material.

C

Now now that you mentioned that and that timing, that could be accurate. Yes, so there.

D

Were some in the library there's some in the afternoon there was some in her house.

C

Yes, there might well have been an intersection there with that particular concern.

D

I think the other time period where this may have come up is when we had a lot of.

B

Different historic houses in small societies that coalesced into the.

B

Portsmouth historical society too, so that makes sense.

A

Well, I think it would. It would be nice to hear back from the.

A

Library, if they know the status at least on this or on preservation and records at the city level,.

A

um And if there is any coordination from the city side, since we don't directly.

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Monitor what the library does, I think they would know much better than we do.

A

And we can decide how how then we want to address that ordinance in particular,.

A

um Is there general consensus, I've I've highlighted several of these in yellow that.

A

Are defunct and considered defunct board of health board of plumbing examiners, building commission.

A

Micro enterprise advisory committee, portsmouth economic development loan program board.

A

And then renewable energy policy blue ribbon committee, which is the only one that's up there,.

A

That's not ordinance that I'm highlighting um is there general consensus around recommending.

A

That we do away with the ordinances pertaining to those specifically in yellow that I just mentioned.

A

The others in the ones that are highlighted in orange are ones we're still looking into.

A

And in green are the ones that we're going to.

A

Be checking on as well. Let me just ask I. I know that the pure silent committee just voted to.

C

Sunset, so I don't know if you would they actually? Oh, I did. I missed that meeting because they.

B

They didn't give me any notice. Is that what that's? My? That's? My understanding? Okay, yes,.

B

Okay, okay, they think their work's done. That's what I got from the meeting. I went.

A

Okay, so I'm gonna put that one then on our list.

A

Maybe for our next meeting, we'll we'll double check and make sure that we've got.

A

um An accurate like that. We know that that is definitely where they stand as well.

D

It seems to me we should have some process to get input from the public before we snuff these out.

C

Okay, well, and I will say, keep in mind, you will have public comment at the when you move these.

C

Through the ordinance structure as well right so always important to keep in mind right so we'd.

D

Have to go through the three reading process right, if you would like, we can move. Also public comment.

A

Up today I'll take a motion to do that to move public comment up on the agenda, so we can hear.

A

From the public here, if anyone wants to speak um before we get to the next item, the mid-year update.

A

On city council, I would also like to just address the micro enterprise advisory committee. Yes, um it.

B

Seems like that's more likely to be a subcommittee of the economic development committee. If I'm, I.

B

Don't I was just I didn't, I was just going to look up the ordinance that created that and.

B

That is an ordinance. Yes, I didn't find it quickly. So.

A

I'm going through myself here.

A

Here it is, it's ordinance, 1.410.

A

A

So this was a a micro enterprise, probably from a micro enterprise loan program right. That was.

C

Yeah, what I got back from the economic development director who reached out to nancy carmer and said.

C

It arose because of monies we had and we don't have them anymore.

B

Okay, but I would agree if there's going to be another conversation about micro enterprise, more.

C

Generally, it might naturally fall under economic development committee as a special or subcommittee.

B

We've heard a lot of you know: portsmouth pays attention to the big businesses, but.

B

Forgets about the small businesses, I'm not sure, that's necessarily true, but um I think that.

B

I mean I don't know but yeah you know it it's interesting. I think that right now that does.

A

Fall to the economy, development, um commission and and they're also established by ordinance.

A

So um this was this particular committee seems to be completely designed to manage a loan program.

A

And we have a few of those, so um the loan programs just don't exist anymore, but then the.

A

The ordinance was set up because we needed an ordinance to establish.

A

That standing committee, so um I don't know how others I personally feel like.

A

It's completely reasonable for those concerns to be addressed by the edc. Yes, um I do too.

D

Well, similar to that, we've got the economic development loan.

B

Board, which has not been active right.

D

Loan program board, yes, which was looks like established by the city manager,.

D

So it wasn't even which one is that is this one. I don't have listed.

D

Look under pa on your list: portsmouth economic development loan program board. Yes, that one is.

A

Also defunct at this point because there's not a economic development loan program now.

D

So that would be something that.

D

Could land in the edc's lap? I think if the.

D

And again, as you know, was, was it built around a loan program and has the loan program gone.

C

You know, I think that one is gone and defunct, but yes, I don't think I got a response back on.

C

That one that was my understanding that that one's also defined okay, so the loan program is gone. Okay,.

A

There were a lot of of economic development loans in the past um that don't exist at this point, so.

A

um And and that's why we're also considering funding for our economic development position.

A

This year, um because of a special program that right, this was the.

D

The proceeds from the loan that built the sheraton.

C

Oh right, okay, yeah yeah that funded economic development as a revolving fund.

B

And I'm looking at the um what was it called the planning and development.

B

Council is also an ordinance that is defunct. Yes, I think it's defunct.

A

That's my own determination that I haven't seen it meeting, but I think that's one we'll check on.

C

We can check on it, but I I agree. I've been here uh a long 18 years. I have not seen that.

A

And some of these have been replaced. You know with other like we, we just do we do this a different.

A

Way now yeah, um because it's really interesting what this was designed to do. If you look at.

A

The planning and development council it was designed to have you know people from each of the.

A

The um land use boards really talking amongst themselves and it's interesting because we've.

A

Created that now, as a subcommittee of council in a land use committee,.

A

Between council and staff to discuss, because this board no longer exists so.

A

At some point, somebody thought it was important to have this, and then it disappeared over time.

A

And um you know at this stage we're just invented: yes, yes, we're doing it a different way. Now.

A

And you know, and and I think it's also important to remember that some of these.

A

Quit working together because they just it didn't it wasn't a good model. It didn't work.

A

So that's that's, sometimes a reason why something disappears. It's not needed it.

A

Didn't work effectively, there were no really good outcomes. You know we're also seeing more.

C

Joint work sessions between boards or the boards and councils, so I think we're seeing.

C

A lot more of that you just bring the whole board together with the other board or the city council,.

C

To review policy issues and.

A

I don't want to ask anyone to make any decisions.

A

Today, necessarily on this, I just want to start kind of creating a chart, so we know.

A

These are the ones that are, we think are defunct. They can. We think we can remove the ordinances.

A

These are the committees that we think are. We still need to check on and.

A

These are the ones that we think maybe we can modify or alter to better suit. Our needs.

A

We're getting kind of late, I want to make sure in the next meeting of governance.

A

I would suggest that we go through. We get the report back from from the staff on.

A

uh Pierce island, personal advisory board, planning and development council.

A

Portsmouth housing endowment fund board and the seacoast mpo technical advisory.

A

Committee and I will make sure that they all have a copy of this with those highlighted.

A

That we also hear back from the library, hopefully on the portsmouth heritage, museum board status.

A

And get a report back on the strategic planning committee for vaughan.

A

Worth bridge revitalization and von mall blue ribbon committee, and whether or not we need.

A

Further advice, or if those are committees that can be consolidated- and I made that note um and.

A

Then I think that the other tasks that we should work on for the next um committee meeting is.

A

Looking at rotations on these, like board appointments and rotations you'll note.

A

That in this I also highlighted anything I bolded with a question rotation question mark.

A

Behind it, if a committee wasn't following its assigned rotation as written in the ordinance.

A

So, um for example, let's look at economic development commission.

A

They're appointed for four years, it's a standing committee.

A

But the rotation is off, so we have a few members.

A

Who, like we have a few too many that are sun, setting off or rotating off at the wrong time?.

A

So um so the whenever you see that mark rotation question mark it is because.

A

The rotation on that committee doesn't follow the way that it's written in the ordinance.

A

And so we'll need to go committee or board commissioned by.

A

Committee by committee essentially and look at those and see if there's a way to.

A

Adjust the rotation so that it it fits in with our current ordnance or with the rsas. In some cases,.

A

And um and we'll have to work with legal counsel on that, as well as when it's rsa established.

A

um So I think, though, that's a conversation. We can start having um and create a second chart around.

A

When those committees rotations, when those rotations occur, if that works for everyone.

A

Else in the committee yeah, I think that I ask you a favor. um Can you send this as not as a pdf.

B

But as a spreadsheet, yes because it would be helpful to be able to sort it and yes.

D

Yeah, absolutely I'm working from this document in excel microsoft excel, so I can send it in.

A

That format, if that helps the committee members that'd, be great so that we could.

D

Group together rotation issues grouped together, defunct committees. Okay, I can do that and.

A

You'll notice, the highlights I just put it in my document, so they'll be highlighted.

A

They'll be highlighted when you receive it, um is there anything else we want to discuss.

A

On committee's ordinances today, or do we want to move on to next item when ready, okay,.

A

The next item on our agenda is the mid-year update to city council. Take comment first, if, if.

A

There's a motion to suspend the rules and bring comment forward. We can yeah. Are you interested.

B

In commenting on this, I'm going to yes, but I don't want to interrupt you okay process here.

A

So mid-year update to the city council.

A

We have to, we should probably be reporting back to the council on current status.

A

um It's about mid-year, so that's why I thought I would raise this.

A

um We have a few more committee meetings before that would be due. How do we want to report back? Is.

A

My question, you know different committees. Do this differently. Some write up a formal report, others.

A

Just prepare a essentially a slideshow and others just do an oral report.

A

Since we haven't, this is a fairly new committee. What is the preference of the committee.

D

I I'd recommend just a slide deck. You know four or five slides. Okay, I mean the council is going to.

D

Get a lot of paperwork for um for the ethics. You know for those approvals, uh especially the ethics.

B

D

And we've also got the minutes of the meetings. Okay, so.

B

Yeah, I think a slide. Deck is probably a good thing to do. Okay,.

A

Okay, that seems reasonable to me as well. I'm happy to develop something and then get input.

A

In committee, if you can create slide decks happy to do that and then share it with the committee.

A

For input- and we could also attach the minutes so that the the council has a copy of the minute.

A

From our meetings, maybe get bob to do a video.

A

I I would think that the amount of work that legal counsel has had to do for this committee.

A

Would warrant a video from from our city attorney.

A

We'll see, if he's interested, maybe bringing my lawyer.

A

We have another year to torment our deputy city attorney.

A

So with that said, I'm going to go ahead and move on to public comment and open. It.

A

Up is there anyone who wants to share a public comment and I'm going to stop sharing my screen.

A

E

Good morning, peter huda, 280 south street, um there's a couple things I'd like to talk to.

E

You about this morning, the first thing, even though you have already approved the minutes.

E

I would like to bring your attention to the minutes of may 16th.

E

And I have not seen this before and this is why I'm calling your attention to this.

E

Halfway down the page, um instead of noting.

E

What was said in the public comment? We have the following residents provided public comment.

E

On the draft ethics ordinance and we have the names, um there was no further comment on that.

E

And then down further on number five we have public comment was received on topic.

E

Of committees from esther and myself.

E

I have not seen this before. This is basically.

E

um Filtering and suppressing information on public comment, so uh I humbly request that this.

E

Be changed at the next meeting, and maybe this be corrected uh as it is on film. uh It would be like.

E

It would be really, I don't know the process, since this has already been approved by the committee.

E

But it would be um probably um to your advantage to uh adjust this.

E

um The other comment I do have um on that and my comments are on the uh on the code of ethics.

E

And um I would like these comments um to be included in the minutes.

E

um I guess I don't know if I have to say it, but I'd like to go on record and it's it's great to.

E

Hear that you are still going to be open, as this goes to the city council, for for comments.

E

My comments are on uh number h. I see you still have the city manager in there. I.

E

I don't know if it's going to be clear to everybody else, but it's not really clear to me.

E

um If this is only related to issues that are going to affect employees,.

E

And let's see I'll just go down the numbers here on 1802.

E

In conflicts of interest officers and employees.

E

However may appear without conversation in behalf of constituents.

E

um I would ask you there to look at the perception that is being given here.

E

When an officer or an employee would represent a constituent or anybody else, that the perception.

E

Could be that they they have quote inside help, so I would ask you to look at the wording on that.

E

um 1802 g, um there is still nothing here listed on ones on breaking one's oath of office.

E

By any officers or board members committee members, anything like that.

E

And disclosing confidential information that was, that should have been kept confidential on 18.

E

I don't want to go too fast. Sorry, I know you're right um on 1805.

E

I still uh would suggest that the city manager um recommend uh be assigned to recommend.

E

A uh eio to the council and the council select there could be two or three uh possible.

E

Candidates here the other thing, I would ask on the last sentence here: the eio.

E

Shall have sufficient experience and training? I think this is very vague.

E

Since this position was specifically um created for ethics and and basically law, I think.

E

Personally, I would like to see it uh more described in there of of what this should be as.

E

If this eio is going to be recommended to the city council, they should have some method of judging.

E

The sufficiency of their knowledge to do this.

E

E

The other part is on 1805 b, uh the bottom, and I'm hoping I have the right copy here.

E

In the event, the complaint is against the city manager, the responsible ability to identify and.

E

Retain shall go to the city attorney um to recommend uh this. This is kind of a conflict.

E

Because the city attorney works for the city manager. So on that, I would ask that you put.

E

In the assistant mayor or somebody who isn't in a direct line of association with the conflict, there.

E

Now, let's see.

E

E

The city attorney and the mayor shall conduct the review for sufficiency. That.

E

Is a little vague, so on that I guess I would ask.

E

To make it easier for everybody, if, uh when a complaint is put forward, they could specify.

E

The above code section that they think was violated. I think that would uh would help.

E

In uh inefficiency basically- and um the other part of that is, the code section uh should be notified.

E

And I guess in that, in that beginning process, before we even get this eio in there, because.

E

At this point, it's not really clear to me: if that's going to be a paid position or.

E

How that's going to work? I I know it was discussed in one of your earlier meetings.

E

But uh I don't think we discussed the the funding or or anything else in this uh in this forum, so.

E

It would be great to to uh save the taxpayers money if we didn't have to even go that far.

E

And I do believe I think that's it. uh The only thing other thing I didn't have uh the new copy.

E

That was was handed out, so I would only ask you to review and make sure your new.

E

Section e is not duplicated in any other section here I don't know if it was previously.

E

Or not, the last thing I guess I would ask, is on criminal sanctions, which is in 1805.

E

The end, um I think we probably need to make it clear- uh the authority that is being listed here.

E

So we don't uh trigger any lawsuits, because when you mention criminal it gets gets a little scary.

E

I think, and uh I think that's it my only other questions would be. um It would be great for the.

E

Public to have all the documentation, especially on the committees, because I have I couldn't see.

E

That far and I'd like to make a comment on your rotations, um I guess the only comment I would.

E

Make is, you might have gotten off because of resignations and things that were unforeseen.

E

To a lot of people- and I don't know how you're gonna, how you'd anticipate that or deal with that.

E

So um I think that's it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. um Is there any other public comment.

A

Seeing none I'll close the public comment. Is there any other business? um We did talk early on about.

D

um Council appointments between election day and the new year, and that was raised in the newspaper.

D

In an opinion column by the former assistant mayor, I don't know if that's still on our agenda or not.

A

It it's not on the next agenda of the committee, but it.

A

It will come up as we start, I think, talking about rotations and appointments.

A

I think it's going to take probably a while to get through all of these.

A

Committee discussions right, but I know we talked about it early on and I think.

D

That was part of our discussion at the council level too. If I'm not mistaken,.

A

um And that's something that we should definitely look at, so I'm making sure I made a note.

A

So I keep it, keep it in the forefront. Is there anything else? Yes, I can just clarify for the.

C

Record that, with regard to minutes statutorily, all that we're required to do is um keep a record.

C

Of the actions taken historically, um as staff has had time the and, as the committee preferences may.

C

Be expressed, we, you know, put more or less detail into the minutes, but we continue. We.

C

Believe that the recording is frankly the best place to go for the level of detail that people.

C

Are all often seeking, and so because of the number of meetings that we've been having.

C

Throughout the city, which is good because it shows a lot of involvement and engagement.

C

We've been sort of across the board trying to be judicious in how we spend our time, because it does.

C

Take a lot of staff time, and we also recognize that the best record is probably the recorded one.

C

So that no one feels like their comments were misconstrued or misstated in the minutes and.

C

Let the the recordings speak for for itself, so um obviously I'll defer to the request of.

C

The committee in terms of how much detail, but there has been a recognition that we've just.

C

Needed to you know, try and make some decisions on a level of detail that captures enough of the.

C

Action here um and find that balance point and it's so that's really what it comes down to.

A

Thank you um any other business, um not for me not for me. You get a motion to adjourn so move. Second,.

D

All in favor aye any opposed. Okay, we are adjourned.

A