City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Governance Committee, 29 Apr 2022

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From YouTube: 4.29.2022 Governance Committee

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4.29.2022 Governance Committee

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Meeting of the governance committee to order.

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Start with a roll call, councillor tabor president councillor lombardi and councilor cook, I'm here.

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This morning we are discussing a potential charter amendment, and so we have invited former.

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City mayors to join us and to share their views on that, and we've also invited councilor denton.

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To present this morning, he is the one who suggested the initial charter amendment at a city.

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Council meeting- and it was referred to governance, so thank you, councillor denton from coming and.

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The floor is yours. Thank you, everyone, so the um I proposed three different.

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Ideas for charter amendment, the city council, would only be able to pick one of them if we.

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Do decide to go that route to place in front of the voters at the upcoming municipal election.

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All three of them have to deal with, essentially our form of government. It's been.

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On I won't say on the back burner, but a number of people have discussed potentially.

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Voting on something along these lines and has to deal with either or both.

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Whether we have a ward, specific representation and how the mayor is elected, so the way we currently.

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Do it, obviously we have numerous mayors in the room, so you know how this is done, how it's all.

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At large and the top vote getter becomes mayor and the second top vote. Getter becomes assistant mayor.

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The two other systems which I want to simply be considered by this committee and then the city.

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Council, one is the way how concord does it where they have several ward specific city councillors.

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So one per ward, then they have several at-large city councillors and the top vote getter from the.

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At-Large race becomes mayor, so it's essentially a hybrid system. If portsmouth was to adapt.

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That there would be five specific ward city councillors and then out of the number who run.

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For the four at-large seats, the one who got the most votes would become mayor and the one who.

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Got the second most votes will become assistant mayor, an alternative system that we could consider.

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Would be the way how dover does it? Dover has both ward specific city, councilors.

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And they have at-large city councillors, but they also have the direct election of.

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Mayor and then the third option would be just having the direct election of mayor.

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Again, I don't know how I would vote if it was placed in front of me.

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As a voter come november 2023, but I would like to see something presented to the voters just.

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Because it's been discussed for so long should we consider another form of government with that said.

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I don't think we should move forward with the to the whole hog dover approach. I think it's.

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Better to do a step increase because the more changes at once that you try to make the less.

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Likely it is to succeed, so if we were going to consider something, my recommendation would be.

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The award specific for the five wards city councillors, the four at-large and then top.

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Vote-Getter remains mayor and the second half vote getter would be assistant mayor, but that's.

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My preference out of the three I simply want to get the conversation going because ever since.

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I've been involved from when I first ran in 2013. Some wards have felt underrepresented.

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Primarily awards three and four, um and then this current council, I believe, there's four.

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City councillors, in ward two in the previous council, there were five councillors from ward five.

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And not every ward always feels like they're represented and it's just by chance and who runs.

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Thank you, councillor, denton, I'm going to turn it over to our city attorney.

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To give us some advice on charter amendments in general and this process sure.

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The charter, of course, is sort of the constitution of the city it. uh It is, in fact, a state law or.

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The level of a state law and it describes how the government in portsmouth operates in new hampshire.

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There are a number of recognized forms of government.

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Of which council managers won recognized by statute, it is what our charter has implemented.

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There are other forms of government, the the obvious one and probably the only one that might.

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Be the sort of thing the committee would want to consider is.

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A board of aldermen that may have former government and the difference when they have.

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That in nashua, for example, and the difference between the two is that any board of aldermen.

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Mayor former government, the mayor is the chief executive officer of the city and.

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Was in the council manager, former government, the managers, the chief executive officer of the city,.

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The importance of considering those different forms of government.

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Is, among other things, procedural.

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There are two ways that charters can be amended under state law in new hampshire and the first.

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Is that charters can be revised? Any change in the form of government is a revision.

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Charters can also be amended. Every change other than a revision is an amendment.

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The processes are dramatically different to revise the charter.

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At a very minimum, a charter commission needs to be created. They need to conduct a study, they have.

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To issue report and ultimately there would be a referendum vote on whatever the charter.

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Commission might recommend or not recommend, but that all considers changing the form of government.

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The items that uh council of denton has discussed are amendments, not revisions. They don't change.

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The form of government they would simply amend the existing council manager form that we have.

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The process is much simpler charter amendments can be initiated either by citizens by a petition.

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Approach or by the city council following the fairly expedient process of simply taking a vote.

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If the vote suggests an amendment that amendment has to be referred to, three state agencies.

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Revenue, administration and the attorney general's office and secretary of state.

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And if, if those three agencies approve of the proposed amendment, then it would be.

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Placed upon a a ballot for referendum boat in every case, any change in the charter of any kind.

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Calls for a referendum vote at an election.

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The as I said, the the items suggested by council of denton would all be amendments.

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Could be initiated by the council acting on its own? That would be the simplest way to do it and.

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There are a lot of timelines involved in this, including the state.

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Agencies having something like 45 days to conduct their review.

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So probably the important thing to know is that if the city council want to proceed with any of.

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These charter amendments or anything similar to it, they really need to have to begin this.

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Fairly early into the next year into 2023, in order to be sure to have plenty of time to accomplish.

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All the steps necessary and get the question on the bill. There's no doubt in my mind that the.

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First, test, which applies to any change in the charter, is: is it allowed by state law.

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The both of the proposals discussed by council of.

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Denton, I think rather easily get over that hurdle and pass that test.

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Thank you city attorney, appreciate that um I'm going to open this up to discussion um again.

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I, the committee reached out and invited former mayors to come and join us because of their unique.

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Perspective on this particular issue, I know that it has come up repeatedly, so they've encountered.

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It themselves through discussions, and so I'm going to first open the floor to our former mayors and.

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Let them share insight. Today we have mayors, blaylock mayors, ferrini and mayor speer here.

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Former all former mayors of the city- and I really appreciate you coming and taking the time.

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To spend with this committee this morning to share your insights. Clearly, we we couldn't.

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Invite our current sitting mayor, because we create a quorum of the council, which we didn't want to do.

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um And uh he would have a vote as well on this item, so um so we appreciate getting.

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The perspective of our mayors on this, so would any one of you like to speak. First.

D

Thank you I'll give you my opinion on the ward concept for first as a voter and then.

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As a counselor, you know right now when I'm a voter and I go in there and I have to choose.

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Up to nine from possibly 18 on a good year of candidates, I know.

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That I can probably select a good half dozen candidates, because if you can't choose people.

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From 18 candidates, it's probably something wrong with you, but anyway you get some good people out.

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Of that mix and I leave the voting booth, knowing that I probably voted for a good bunch of people.

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There's been, we know, possibly with a downside risk of having ward councillors. Is that sometimes there.

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Aren't going to be good choices, and I know that because state rep is like that and there's been.

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Years in the past, when you walk into the booth- and you have a choice of one, because there's only one.

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Person running for state rep in your award and that's that's kind of frustrating, so I'd hate.

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To see and the same thing would happen with the council races, unfortunately, so I'd hate to see.

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That I like having more choice as a voter now as a counselor being on that side of the table.

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I, um when issues come before me as a counselor, sometimes they impact.

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One particular area more than others, just because whether we're doing a public works project or.

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There's a zoning change or a road change, I'm always cognizant of how it impacts those people.

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Because look we're we're human, we don't want to get reelected and there's a voter who voted for me.

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In that area, and I want to make sure that I'm serving their interests as best I can.

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I know that it's again, it's human nature. If we go to award system and I'm from my ward and there's.

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An issue happening in some other area of the city. I mean you might care as a human being that.

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It's great, but you want to do the right thing, but really from an animal instinct standpoint.

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They're, not they can't vote for you. They can't influence your outcome in any way.

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And so you might, uh if it's a budget issue, you might vote against it to save money or you might.

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It doesn't have the same. The way representation works. Voters make policy, it doesn't work that way.

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If you have these um counselors voting on issues that aren't in their ward, they.

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That relationship is broken, and so I think, having everyone at large. Everyone is responsible to every.

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Voter in the city on every issue, because they're all portsmouth-wide issues we deal.

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With as counselors, I think that relationship between the voter and the policy maker needs to.

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Be continued and not broken by balkanizing us into factions of wards.

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That being said, this has, as we talked about this, has come up in the past, and I want to suggest.

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um A way forward when these issues come up- and I can use a good example of that.

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In the past we had, um we were looking capital improvement spending.

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And um some neighborhoods felt that they were not getting the dollars that the dollars were.

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Not being distributed fairly across the city, so in fact cliff lassenby who later became a counselor.

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You know did some analysis on it and came up with some um charts and and other tables to.

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Help the council and the city see where dollars might be more evenly distributed across the city.

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And to me, uh when we're talking about you know all these different neighborhoods or different wards.

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Getting fair representation in the city to me, that's where the council and the administration.

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Should focus is say: okay beyond the legalese of the charter amendment? What are the issues that.

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People feel they're being neglected. Let's tackle those issues, let's zone, let's, let's focus on that.

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And try to solve because usually they have legitimate gripes, legitimate issues that.

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And and the ward thing is kind of a way to get at what? What they're really feeling is the stressor.

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And so let's say: okay, I heard you about the word thing, but let's really solve your problem.

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Whatever those problems are in the past, it was a capital spending and maybe there's some other.

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Issues coming up now that that really the council, let's hone in on that and and try to solve their.

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Problems and do it as uh all at large members, so I just wanted to give you that perspective.

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Observed on the council, thank you I'll chime. In um thanks mayor speer. um I have to say I agree a.

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Lot with what eric spear just said, first of all to when you run, for you know at large, you are.

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Representing all the citizens in the whole city, uh one thing I I did when my first term was we had.

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Each award represented by a counselor, even though he did not live in that ward and the.

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Reason, I think, that's not important that you live in the ward that you are the liaison to and it.

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Was something simply that that would go to the neighborhood committee meetings and and because.

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The wards are not drawn uh with some sort of uh uh idea, specific, it's it's a political map, so you.

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Know I I like to avoid at all costs politicizing too much our local elections. I always thought one.

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Of the beautiful things about running at large and the way we do it is, it is very non-partisan.

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uh And you do would have to indeed represent the city, and some of us have lifted more than one ward.

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But it's important that you, it's a small, it's a small community area wise and we don't have that.

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Many that bigger population either- and I think it's been working quite well every now and then.

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You get a you know, an ineffective council, but it can always be corrected because it is every.

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Two years, but I think the way to do it is to uh emphasize to the council in general that each.

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Area of the city is important and to not draw some sort of political line to create any kind of.

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Bastion of power- I guess you might say, but I know that you sometimes you do get more counselors from.

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One ward, but I don't really think more gets done there. Public works-wise, because that's.

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Probably the genesis of most of the complaints is, we want side works, how come they're getting them.

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The downtown's always getting slandered because there's more focus but then again that's also.

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The economic engine and there's more going on and that's the crossroads, there's always.

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An explanation or a reason for the way we do things. You know the the paving the streets.

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Program, but they they periodically have to grade what streets need to be done first, and it's not.

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Because some counselor in some ward wanted his streets done. First.

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So I I think, leaving the at-large city council in general is probably the best idea. Excuse me.

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Oh, I just wanted you to be aware that it doesn't say rip, but it's the one with the hand.

F

Thank you. Thank you. So much.

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If possible, yes, former mayor baxter, have you joined us? Yes, thank you so much for joining us this morning, yeah no.

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And I'm going to spare you a video, because I see that everyone in the room is dressed fairly uh for.

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Colder weather and I'm going to spare you from where I'm at calling from florida, where it's.

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So I just I wanted to chime in uh yes, council cook called me uh the other day wasn't sure exactly.

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Where we'd be at, but I I have the ability right now um with this time to be able to go and just.

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Share my thoughts, I agree with both mayor blaylock and mayor spears, I'm probably going to assume.

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And I don't want to assume, I know that this has come up many many times and shared.

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With many councils- uh and I know that uh mayor lister was one also.

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I, like the simple fact that you have to earn a vote across the entire city. I believe I believe.

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And agree with council black as well um that divide, um I just don't think we get into when.

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It comes to a partisan election. um My own opinion is, I think that happened the last time around, but.

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uh Regardless of that, I think it's important um for every member of the council, all nine of them.

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We are one individual of each one of them to represent all the awards. uh We don't need that.

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Type of divide, um I think it works well, I think it worked for this council that is there now.

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Councillor getty, has, you know been on a few um councils in the past, he's been elected every time.

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Basically, on the same thought, I know talking to people over the many years that I've done it run.

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That people, like the system that we have it, is a short look term. It is two years things can happen.

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Dramatically within those two years, but I think it's a fair system, the way that we have it now.

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And I think that the voters and the residents, if this was even put to a vote, would clearly.

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Say that we, like the system um not to get bogged down with other things,.

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um And- and I agree with what we have now and I I just wanted to share those thoughts. Thank you.

A

So much for taking the time to join us. I know that you're away on vacation. I truly appreciate.

A

It absolutely thank you, mayor, ferrini, uh thanks and rick. I appreciate that you're not showing.

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Us your hawaiian shirt and so forth. That's very nice and kind of you um because it would be here.

H

That's true, isn't it it would be irritating purposely didn't wear it. You know, I. I had a.

H

Similar perspective, but a couple of other thoughts, you know one interesting thing to consider is rick.

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Steve marchand me and bob lister aren't from wards two or five okay.

H

So that's an example of the fact that yes, in a given election, you might see one ward. You know.

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Rock it out and do really well but over time. If you consider that how many mayors.

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I can't count that was four. We weren't from wards two or ward five, and so one might say.

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Well: okay, everybody's more towards road to award five and that's in fact not the case.

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You know I could sit here and text somebody in texas that I have a case with.

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And they can text me back, so I really don't feel that proximity to award in today's.

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You know world of communication is all that necessary. I do appreciate the good intent and.

H

I think people want to have representation, they want to feel comfortable with their representation.

H

But I'll give you a few thoughts from dover in rochester, my law firm's in dover.

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And they have ward voting and they have a mayoral election.

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To a certain extent in dover, the wards have had races that are not contested so.

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I think when you have ward elections, we'll talk about the mayor thing in a minute. It's a good.

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Way to have fewer people involved in the system and the reason it is in rochester in particular,.

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They have a number of uncontested races, so the the dual problem you have is you get that one person.

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In the ward, who mows it down and wins that every time it makes it harder for someone to run in that.

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Ward, because it's your neighbor and it's harder and you don't get elected or you have the other.

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Challenge of two really good people who run that ward and you think boy I want both of.

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Them on the council and only one of them gets elected, so I think rochester you can actually.

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Go back and look at the data. I was speaking with their former mayor tj jean back in time about how.

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That went and they had like numerous uncontested races. So what you're actually doing is stifling.

H

An opportunity for people to participate when I hear people say there's been talk about this. I am.

H

Not aware of that, as being a massive political movement, you hear people mention it once in a.

H

While for the very reason eric stated, which is frustration with spending in a given ward.

H

And I think that's a perfectly appropriate legitimate thing, but as jack said, you can.

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Handle that in the cip- and there are ways that you can do that, um I think to think about the mayoral.

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Issue because no one's really spoken about that- I offer you this to consider and I've seen this.

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Happen in dover, dover right now has a mayor, that's very popular and and uh bob carey's, nice guy.

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There have also been mayoral elections where two or three really good people ran.

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Two of them you're not going to see on the council. So if someone has the wherewithal.

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And the political interest and the passion to be a mayor and then two of them don't get elected.

H

The citizens lose the opportunity to have them as representatives. I see no benefit in that, and.

H

I think in the city of portsmouth I would be even more vehemently opposed, in particular in the mayor.

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And to a mayor-only race and I'll tell you why? Because currently, if you end up as mayor and god.

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Help you, if you do, um you have to earn it all the way around the horn. If you have a race think about.

H

The portsmouth we all know and love are there people in portsmouth who might want to be mayor.

H

Because it's a really cool thing and might that create a real arms race in a political campaign.

H

That is naturally dissipated and deadened by the system that we have now. So you, I think.

H

It's for twofold: it's it's a it's, a reason that you have to get out there and that mayor.

H

Two mayors who run against each other: they don't have to go to ward three.

H

They don't have to. They. Don't have to do that. If you look at who wins the top three seats, usually.

H

They're winning in three and four and five awards and there's reason for that. So that tells me that.

H

The communication pattern is there or those votes wouldn't be offered. It is a well-intended thing.

H

And it sounds good that I would have my ward counselor and- and I think it's a nice idea, but I.

H

Think in practice it just lessens the opportunity for the public to have representation. It gets more.

H

People out of the system politically, as opposed to having more people in the system politically.

H

And I have never in my experience in eight years of doing it if somebody called me with a pothole.

H

From ward 3, it's no different than from ward 1 or ward 4., it's a pothole and you got to deal with it.

H

And there are bigger issues I do like this and I remember when cliff losenby brought that forward.

H

And I would say to a sitting, counsel, absolutely look at the neighborhoods and say where's. The.

H

Money being spent, I think that's a great idea that can even be institutionalized as a matter.

H

Of fact, and of course, as others said, if you have significant infrastructure in the downtown you're.

H

Obviously, going to have a higher cost, but if you say what's that base infrastructure cost that the.

H

Downtown and out to islington gives us and you you zero, that out and say: okay, that's a set piece and.

H

Then look at spending proportionately throughout the wards. I think you can balance it up and you.

H

Can think about how to do your progressive spending on the cips and that sort of thing.

H

So I think, there's an easy way to account for that. We spend more in the downtown because now.

H

That said, if I see period lighting again anywhere, you'll see me at city hall and how many times.

H

Have any of you seen me at city hall, speaking in the last 10 years, probably not at all so.

H

I think the way to do it is to balance it up by taking the fixed costs of downtown look at the.

H

Five wards and do that and I do think it's it's an interesting discussion. I do think getting the.

H

Data from towns like rochester, we say my god that person was a counselor forever and they were they.

H

Were starting to grow lichens um you know. Is that really in anyone's best interest? So I think it's a.

H

Good, it's an interesting discussion. It might be a solution in search of a problem um and again.

H

I can appreciate the frustration that happens for people of any ward when you get elected you.

H

Got a bunch of people from one ward and that that unicorn happens. But I think over time.

H

I don't think that's what it shows and I think just the mayor's where the mayors come from you.

H

Know that that kind of shows you where the bulk of the votes go, and I think I think the current.

H

System has been effective, but that's I think the answer to people say we need to have ward.

H

Voting and say well, let's talk about what that really means. So good luck, I don't have to do it.

E

Thank you additional comment on the mayor only or the mayor's separate election.

E

So it would change the chemistry of the way the city council is so really. The mayor is.

E

Really just a city councilor that has three extra responsibilities granted some of those.

E

Responsibilities, add a little bit more oomph to your to your what you bring to the to the table.

E

And that's uh you know: bringing forward appointments, uh helping to set the agenda and.

E

Chairing the meeting and the the uh advantage to being assistant mayor is, you don't have to.

E

Do any of the first two things, but every now and then you get to chair a meeting.

E

And- uh and you know it's it's sort of a um it's a wonderful thing to be the mayor of portsmouth.

E

uh I truly treasure it. I mean to to be elected mayor out of a at large group in the city that.

E

You were born and raised in is truly remarkable, but I I don't think I would have changed anything.

E

About the way it happened, and I I when I said we would change the chemistry if, if we elected.

E

Mayor separately, it's it does change the chemistry of the way the mayor interacts with the city.

E

Council, because it it separates, you know, he's all right he's the top dog city manager would.

E

Still be the chief executive officer and hire all the employees and make sure the things get done.

E

But it it's, I would be afraid of a change in the chemistry. I like the fact that, uh as mayor.

E

I was really just a city council. I got to vote last. um I was assistant mayor under tom ferrini.

E

And I had to vote first, so you know this is the mayor under you? It's all getting different. I.

E

That would have been interesting, it would have, but um so so anyway, I guess my my point is and.

E

Of course, I'm one of those people that I don't embrace change unless something's broken and.

E

I don't see that it's broken like I said earlier, every now and then you get an ineffective council.

E

But that's going to happen anyway and the fear of having lifers on the council representing.

E

One ward and you know whether they get a lot more done or not. I I don't see the advantage so.

E

Thank you. No thank you um are there. Is there anything else from our former mayors.

A

No, let me share here that I have spoken also with former mayor weeks and I heard from former mayor.

A

Marshand and both expressed similar thoughts um and said that they would be willing to come at.

A

Another time if we, if we have another session, so thank you, I'm going to open up discussion to.

A

The rest of the group here please feel free to chime in counselors.

A

Also, our city clerk welcome to um share your thoughts, if you would, if you would like as well.

A

Yes, counselor marty. Oh yes, I I thought the comments were great from our past.

I

Mayors all fascinated I tend to agree with them. um I agree that.

I

Dividing the city into wards politically or politicizes the process also, if you.

I

Look at the numbers of voters in per ward and we had around, I believe, 6 000 voters.

I

And uh so that gives you just over a thousand people in a ward voting for a person, um so it.

I

You have you have to touch a lot of people when you're, when you're.

I

Running at large- and that's that's great- um I think it's great if I had to touch.

I

300 people to get elected or 400 people's get elected.

I

I would feel that I was not being elected by the city, so that's my counselor side thing.

I

As a resident, I I'm in ward 2, and so I'm in one of the wards that has multiple.

I

Councillors at this time- um but I don't I just don't feel like I'm representing just.

I

The group of people in my neighborhood at all, just it's not part of the ethic of portsmouth.

I

I think of portsmouth as a city as a whole and I'd be concerned. I'd have.

I

The same concerns that were brought up about having having stagnant people on the council.

I

And also having losing some good people that could be on the council, especially in the mayoral race,.

I

If, as I believe both well, I think all people said the.

I

If you run for mayor and you take, I don't know three four, even five people running for mayor.

I

You'd lose some really qualified people. Perhaps that could be on the city council.

I

I did take some time and talked with a number of constituents and.

I

You know yes, there are some times when people feel ignored, because, mostly because of the cip.

I

And why isn't this project done? Why is this one waiting you know and.

I

I I think that can be solved in another way, as you said so in all. I think the system is.

I

Good, I think there are better solutions to whatever perceived problems. There are.

I

In terms of representing the whole city equally, so.

I

So I guess I I'm hesitant to.

I

Move any change forward, that's just my opinion, but thank you. Thank you. Councillor tabor uh thanks.

J

Counselor cook, um I was trying to think of any way that I could be the devil's advocate on this.

J

But I I can't really um having heard the lived experience of all four mayors.

J

You know, I think councilor denton proposed this, because we've had a pattern of some wards being.

J

Underrepresented or maybe some words overrepresented, two and five.

J

Well, two and five are the largest in vote count and they're, also where people turn out the most.

J

So that's just the nature of the city elections.

J

I share the concern about a dearth of candidates. If we go to ward elections.

J

And somebody only having to maybe win over 600 votes or 700 votes and becoming entrenched um and.

J

I think those smaller ward races could become partisan and the registration.

J

Is so lopsided in portsmouth that might not be a fair outcome if it got partisan.

J

And I really think all of us who run.

J

If we, if we want to get elected to the council, we have to go, see everybody in every war. We.

J

Have to learn every war, we have to learn their issues, we have to go out door to door and.

J

So I think the current system we've got makes all of us as candidates.

J

Actually get out of our parochial neighborhood and see the whole city, and particularly when.

J

You get to cip and neighborhood issues which come up to the council.

J

We have to we're forced to inform ourselves about every part of the city and- and I think.

J

I think that's good um and the last thing I'd say is: you know, I think the current system we've got.

J

Of responds quickly to the electorate.

J

You know this last race. There were 1695 new voters.

J

And they elected a council that was significantly younger.

J

J

You know if we had ward representation.

J

All those new voters were turned out, but they could only have affected four seats.

J

So I think what we've got responds to what the voters.

J

Are doing on election day and I think there's a good mix. You know in this last race my voters were.

J

Different than say, mayor, mckecher's, voters who um and and in in the previous council my.

J

Voters were very different than say some of the other counselors, but that's good.

J

You know counselor denton has a constituency about sustainability and in the environment.

J

um And and that's good for the future of the city, so I like the system with that.

J

For those reasons, thank you counselor counselor dan. I agree with the overwhelming majority of.

B

Everything that was said- and I appreciate all the thought that went into it and my preference.

B

If this committee was to refer anything back to the council, again would be.

B

For the version which concord has which keeps the mayor being selected from.

B

A group of at large versus direct election of the mayor and again the reason why I brought this.

B

Forward was for voters to have the opportunity to make this decision in november. It might be.

B

An overwhelming decision against it, but just give them the opportunity to, for once have that option.

H

Yes, I'd like to thank counselor denton for putting the ball in play and having the discussion.

H

One thing I haven't heard is why this would make things better. I'm curious about that. Not.

H

The idea that it theoretically should be there for us to consider, but is there a public policy.

H

Outcome, that's going to be better for the voters of portsmouth as a result of doing that. You got.

H

A lot you have a lot of guts to even put it in play and I think that's great. I don't understand.

H

What the reason is other than it's something we talked about, um I I and, and so maybe it should.

H

Show up on a ballot I'm not going to weigh in one way or the other, and the council will.

H

Exact its wisdom, but I think that, if it if it does get to a ballot, if I were a city councilor.

H

I would want to hear a lot of reasons why it's going to make things better.

H

Not just that, it's something we should talk about.

A

Are there any other thoughts group.

A

In that case, I will share mine.

A

I truly appreciate all the insights that we've heard here today and I agree that our system.

A

Isn't broken, I don't feel a need to alter the system, but I think we should recognize.

A

That there are some challenges and concerns around things like the budget and spending.

A

That maybe we could find other solutions to those challenges, making sure that we have.

A

Reports on the cip that break down spending by ward might be a good first step as far.

A

As I'm concerned into addressing some of those concerns about making sure awards are represented.

A

Also, the potential solution of having individual counselors representing wards that um they may be.

A

Not elected from but at least assigned to award to attend the neighborhood meetings so that we make.

A

Sure we're getting reports back, we've also already put in place some other provisions that help.

A

I think could help solve some of these concerns around inequity, for example, having public dialogue.

A

Out in the neighborhoods and in the wards so that people feel like they have access to the council.

A

Outside of city hall, I think there is one other concern around.

A

Voting that maybe we should also consider addressing and it's inequity when it comes.

A

To running for the council, who can afford to run the cap for the council, you know a lot of times.

A

Representation, the reason we don't have representation from certain wards.

A

Is that people don't have the time to serve it's very difficult? It's a lot of hours.

A

That you're giving up to serve on the council and.

A

Some neighborhoods have a lot of individuals who work evening shift who can't potentially serve on.

A

The council, for that reason, so we might not see as much representation from some of those words.

A

And we also won't see representation a lot of times in families with young children.

A

So we have to think about making sure we have good representation for all those individuals in the.

A

City who can't necessarily come to city council to express their concerns, and I don't think that.

A

Ward voting necessarily solves that problem, because again you might get the one individual.

A

In that neighborhood who's willing to run and put in that time, commitment and that person could.

A

Serve for many many years without opposition in in voting, and so there really isn't a choice for.

A

That ward, besides in the at-large race, um so we have to find other solutions around that we also.

A

Have to find other solutions to an increasingly expensive city council race for those individuals.

A

Who cannot always afford to raise the funds? You know it's, it's not. It's not easy to come up with.

A

A thousand dollars or more printing signs is expensive. There's increasing number of signs.

A

For each council race, it's becoming more and more expensive for individuals to run.

A

So we have to be thinking about also making making access to elections and running for city council.

A

Available to everyone in the city, I don't know what the solution is there, but it's something.

A

That we can consider um so with that said. I personally wouldn't support a change, um but I.

A

Think that we need to find other solutions to some of these challenges around inequity in the city.

A

Are there any other comments before we move forward? Okay, um the next item on our agenda.

A

Is discussion of further charter review process? I placed this here because I wanted everybody to.

A

Know that this isn't the last time we're going to talk about the charter as the governance.

A

Committee that there are probably other potential amendments to the charter that we need to consider.

A

There are several things in the charter that are outdated. I don't know. Does anyone here? Did anyone.

A

Here know of anything that absolutely we need to be looking at in the charter for amendment.

A

If not, we will bring this back at a later meeting of the governance committee and we can go through.

A

The charter prior to that meeting and see if there are any changes that we absolutely need to make.

A

And with that, I will open it up for public comment. Please come up if you.

A

Would like to make public comic! Please come up to the mic so that we can hear you.

F

Mr kennedy 41 pickering ave and I have realized that every mayor I have served on is not here.

F

Today and except for mayor bloodlock, but he was vice mayor when I was on my council with.

F

Farini and and black, so I've worked with everyone. I totally agree with everything that was said. I.

F

I respect the cost of running. I do believe, though, that once you get your signs, it's really the.

F

Knowledge of how to purchase things ahead of time, so it's almost an education seminar like if you.

F

Get your signs at this say running for city council. They can be used year after year.

F

That kind of thing, which makes the cost as you get going and longer in it a lot less. I do.

F

Appreciate the fact that there are concerns about having people from.

F

Different wards, however, I can tell you that my first year, everyone was from ward 4.

F

And I and uh assistant mayor blaylock at the time were the only ones from ward 5.

F

So as someone who ran as an unknown, I find that it kind of comes up with causes when mayor spears.

F

And I got on our first year: it was because of the middle school and the people support us. So I think.

F

It's really understanding the causes. I think in all these causes that push people on to.

F

Counsel or get people involved the reason there were so many people in ward 5 is because people.

F

Did not want to have a brewery over and work for r4, so everyone ran for war four, so I think.

F

People run and get involved and get supported by causes and- and I think the causes tend to be.

F

Community causes it's not award cause the middle school. Is a community cause the pub over.

F

There, when they were going to do a brewery over off of lafayette, it was a community cause between.

F

Ward, three and four and ward two: they all were involved and that's why those were the people so.

F

It's not, um yes, is there a problem with a road in in my area? Yes, but I can tell you the other night.

F

Coming from war five, I was the only one here from for sagamore with uh petra huda, and I know paige.

F

Trace was online, so we were here supporting our neighbors and that's what this is all about, and I.

F

See the big cities I work in other communities, I have worked in dover and saw what that was.

F

And people only supported their little neck of the woods and keeping it the way it is I I know.

F

We've I've fought it for years to keep it this way, because it keeps coming up once in a while.

F

Makes us really think about portsmouth, and I think that's what we're all here for I'm not here for.

F

41 pickering half, but I'm here for portsmouth, so I am glad to hear. I was a little worried that I.

F

Was on school vacation, so I was able to get here today. I was a little worried about what.

F

I might hear today, and I really appreciate what everyone has said. Thank you. Thank you.

K

Good morning, zelita morgan richards avenue. Thank you for your time. Thanks for everyone who has been.

K

Here and sharing your thoughts, former mayors and everyone else, I just want to make a very.

K

Overall comment here I hear the chair, um you know, emphasizing the representation.

K

Engagement but let's talk about what I witnessed on my the first meeting, I attended remotely.

K

Of this committee, we're talking about governance right, we're talking about a government.

K

And you cannot talk about a government without talking about the people who elect the government.

K

So the first meeting attended there was no quorum of the city councils attending and there were.

K

No residents present it's a meeting on monday at 10 o'clock. In the morning we are meeting.

K

On a friday, you are having this discussion on a friday at 10 o'clock in the morning.

K

On a vacation week, I think, on the matters of governance, we should start from bottom up.

K

We should start from actually listening to people, so you may have already had all these are good.

K

Ideas- and I'm not disputing you know, is this a good idea or not what I am saying, the thought.

K

I want to say here if we are talking about a government of the people for the people and by.

K

The people and if you are counselors individually, representing this model of democratic governance,.

K

Right, I think, with the people are missing and you should actually create a forum like you all,.

K

Have these these ideas running, you have been talking among yourselves, no problem whatsoever.

K

But I think right now you should have a group to facilitate a conversation with the voters.

K

Those are the people, those are the people who are going to be governed and those ideas.

K

Should be vetted talked and discussed, and you all should hear from them and we also.

K

Should hear from everyone of our residents our neighbors, so I want to put this information there.

K

I don't have a specific comment at this time about specific topics, but I just want to say that.

K

A governance that discussion that takes place so insulated. It's it's originated within the.

K

Council, it's led by the council- and it's very much goes back to the council, where the people.

K

Who will be voting will have probably two weeks or three weeks to you know think about this and.

K

Actually, no chance to listen to themselves amongst themselves, discuss amongst themselves and give you.

K

The benefit of listening truly in quality from what they have to say. I want to say if that.

K

Doesn't disqualify and doesn't I don't want to take the merit or credit from anything that has.

K

Been said here from former mayors or anyone else prior from other meetings, this is just my take.

K

By listening to people, I still listen from people right, so you can empower people or not.

K

If you, if you really have a representative government, so I think that we have to shift.

K

Because right now we have an upside down pineapple cake here, so I would appreciate you taking that.

K

Into consideration, and as you are deliberating, as you are considering major changes, you are talking.

K

About little things here, not little things and the governed is nowhere here. Can you tell me.

K

When you were talking about councils going to the neighborhoods over there, what about having.

K

This conversation, at a time when people actually can attend, can express themselves creating forums.

K

And times with everyone can say: let's talk about it, you know. So. Thank you so much. Thank you for.

K

Your time, thank you for thinking of governance, but please, let's rethink how we are addressing.

K

Governance by actually including those and those are the governed. Thank you so much. Thank you.

L

Good morning, everybody greg mohanna from three pheasant lane.

L

Thanks for having the discussion a lot of, I hope everybody focuses on the big picture here. The.

L

Former mayor's had a lot of good information. um I agree with some of the things that kate said.

L

I was the only guy that ran in route in ward 4 last november, and so that I think, should bring.

L

An interesting perspective, it's interesting that esther said you know: ward 4 carried one time when.

L

There was a big project, the brewery that nobody wanted, but um after work, stumping in ward 4, a lot.

L

Of people felt underrepresented, there everybody's talked about that and didn't win no big deal, but.

L

As recently as yesterday, I got a second call in 30 days to go, meet with people and reward for my.

L

Neighbors in ellen park about issues a group of people really don't want the speed bumps.

L

Over there, by don darrow's school, another fella who's 93 years old, wants me to help him move some.

L

Street signs around and he's a very tenacious guy, so I have to go talk to him and that's what you do.

L

But kate kind of talked about the demographics out there and in both places ellen park, has retirees.

L

So that gentleman certainly doesn't want to come speak to council and the other part is all the.

L

Young families there who I have to guess, I'm not a statistician, but most of them are probably both.

L

Working parents, little kids, I mean between getting home from work and trying to make meals and pick.

L

Up the bicycles and all the stuff that I see in one part, they don't have the time or the resources.

L

To participate on council or come to these kind of meetings, so I'll roll that forward to jack had.

L

I wasn't aware, but I think that's the best idea in the room is to have somebody assigned.

L

To communicate with these little neighborhoods, whether they're cliquey, but that's not a bad.

L

Thing, um maybe it's not a good thing, either they're kind of funny in l1 park. They I live.

L

Sort of kind of well, I live behind where st james church used to be.

L

So I'm in a little foreign island there it's a private road, it's not part of the woodlands.

L

And it's not part of ellen park, the woodlands wouldn't. Let me join their oil co-op and the alvin.

L

Park folks, won't, let me join their facebook page, but I'm in both of those neighborhoods.

L

And- and I touched every- it was easy to walk them because I could walk out of my house.

L

And hit the whole neighborhood, so I hit both the woodlands and ellen park and learned all about it.

L

And I think, having some way to have a counselor or somebody assigned my counsel.

L

To reach out to each of the different wards and or demographics, to have their thoughts brought in.

L

To the process, without really thinking that they're going to come in and do it themselves.

L

Thank you. Thank you counselor. I just wanted to ask you. Could I be excused just for a little.

J

Bio break, yes, go ahead. Do we have more public comment.

M

My name is liza hewitt. I live at 726 middle road.

M

I've never been a counselor, I've never run for the council and, to be honest with you, I would.

M

Never want to, I give all of you, people credit, um it's not my thing, but I do try to stay involved.

M

I guess you could say I'm just a resident when I go into the polls.

M

I vote for people, I don't vote for where they live. I don't really care where they live. I vote for who.

M

I I like who I like what they stand for, who I like what they say.

M

I I want to know they're approachable and I guess I kind of worry about the fact that to go.

M

This direction means that if I have a concern, I'm sort of maybe encouraged or bound to seek out that.

M

Person in my ward that was voted in to represent me whether or not they represent me just because.

M

They live in, I live in, their ward doesn't mean they represent me and when I look with a concern.

M

I look at the council and I look at who I can go to because I feel comfortable talking to them.

M

Because I feel comfortable with what they stand for who they are as people, that's who I'll go to.

M

And I don't want to have to go to somebody that was voted into my ward, because that's.

M

Where they live, because I don't think that they may necessarily represent me. um I go to people.

M

Because of who they are, and so I think that it's the wrong direction to move, um I also am not in.

M

Favor of putting it on the ballot for the sake of putting it on the ballot, as as mr denton.

M

Suggested um I I just think it muddies the water. I think that we have far more important things at.

M

This point that do need to be addressed. I think the cip is one of them. I think that looking at.

M

That people have brought it up before it's a very kind of closed, secretive society with the cip. It.

M

Feels like as a resident, I would like to see that be much more brought out into the public and and.

M

Be able to be viewed by the public and be set up in a way that that the public can understand it.

M

I think that that would take care of a lot of those concerns. Thank you very much. Thank you.

A

Is there any further public comment? Is there oh good? Okay,.

N

Feature huda, 280, south street former counselor I'd like to thank all the mayors for coming.

N

In and discussing this, and it seems we did full circle and got back to where we are so.

N

I would just like to add that what we have works very well.

N

And we have, I don't know how many years of proof here so just because it's time to look at this.

N

Doesn't mean we have to change anything? I think it's great that.

N

It was brought forward and thought about and thought through by this council and.

N

I I support open and clear discussion. Thank you. Thank you.

A

um There's no one else in the room. I will okay not to be left out.

O

Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to speak. Paige trace 27 hancock street past.

O

City councilor: um this is quite a treat to see so many past mayors, all in one room and online mayor.

O

Pass mayor, baxter councillor denton, thank you for bringing this up. Thank you for making it public.

O

As mayor farini said it, it takes courage to bring up new and different ideas. We don't know until we.

O

Discuss and we try. However, I look at the situation and I say counselor denton. If I wanted to talk.

O

About conservation or electric charging stations or making the planet better I'd come to you.

O

I probably wouldn't go to councillor tabor no offense counselor tabor um council lombardi. If.

O

I wanted to discuss historic preservation, I'd be knocking on your door, obviously so.

O

As a resident as thankfully this year, not someone on council.

O

I look at the council as a collective group of great unique, different minds with different.

O

Experiences and different abilities and that's what matters to me: I don't care down counselor.

O

Denton, where you live, I don't care counselor table where you live. I care about what you.

O

Know and how you can help portsmouth and at the end of the day. That's all that matters to me.

O

And I thank you all very, very much for your time. Thank you to city staff. Also thank you.

A

Is there anyone on zoom that is hoping to make a comment.

M

Just the mayor, okay, if not, then we will go ahead and close public comment.

A

uh Is there any other business that we need to discuss today.

M

Yep, okay, um the next meeting I should say is of this group- is currently scheduled.

A

For well, actually, I should say we, our next meeting is scheduled for the 16th of may. So we have.

A

A bit of a break, I think that that was designed initially when we discussed meeting.

A

As a group, we just we designed that around budget discussions, because we have quite a.

A

Number of city council meetings in that first few weeks of may is is may the 16th a good date still.

A

Okay and at that next meeting uh we will be continuing our discussions of of.

A

Any other potential changes to the rules we'll also be discussing.

A

Committees is my understanding and, if there's anything that our the counselors on the committee.

A

Would like to make sure we address please let me know so that I can place those items on the agenda.

A

With that said, thank you all for coming again.

A

Thank you to our former mayors for showing up and speaking to us today. It was really insightful.

A

Thank you to our city, clerk for attending and city attorney as well, and thank you for all the.

A

Comments from our residents and many former city councilors, that is also very much appreciated and.

A

Thank you, mayor beckstead, for pausing your vacation for a few minutes. I do sincerely.

A

Appreciate that that uh can I get a motion to adjourn second, all in favor aye. We are adjourned.

A