City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Governance Committee, 28 Mar 2022

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From YouTube: 3.28.2022 Governance Committee

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3.28.2022 Governance Committee

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A lot on the agenda today, but a lot of it is fortunately.

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Introduction of new topics and informational, so so hopefully we.

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Can finish a little earlier than planned? I'm sorry that we're running a little bit late.

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We had another meeting in this room that ran a little bit over so I'll start with a roll call.

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Counselor tabor president councillor lombardi here and I'm councillor cook and I am present.

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uh Can I get a motion to approve the minutes from february 14th and february 28th.

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Yes, so approved in a second all in favor, aye, okay minutes are approved.

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So we're going to start out our discussions with the city council.

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Rules of procedure you received a copy.

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Via email of changes, I'm hoping that we can share those on the screen with anyone, who's joining us.

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So that everyone can see it who's joining us via zoom and anyone in the room can also see these changes.

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So we've been discussing these rules uh just a second: it's not it's, not quite sharing yet I'll do.

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It preface um we've been discussing the rules for several weeks now um and we haven't come to full.

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Agreement on all of them, but on several of them we have. I would like to go through the recommended.

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Rules changes that we discussed last week and reach general consensus on, and hopefully we can.

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Move forward with these rules changes the ones where we're all in agreement to the city council.

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With a recommendation for approval at the next city council meeting.

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Are we fully sharing? Now we are okay, so the first rule that we discussed was rule.

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Three on work sessions and we re we removed text as you will all see,.

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um That talked about polling of the council, because it was inconsistent with policy.

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As far as not having votes in work session, that was recommended by the city attorney.

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Is there any comment on that? One.

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We're good on that rule, 13 disposition of motions uh we added clarifying language.

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And you'll see that in paragraph b on friendly amendments, this language had not been in our rules.

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Prior we've been practicing friendly amendments, but we hadn't codified. What.

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They were or what the practice should be, and this also allows for objection by any city. Councillor.

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In a meeting, if they didn't agree that it was a friendly amendment and ask for a vote.

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Any comment, I think it's good right, um motions during debate.

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Again, this is a really minor edit to clarify what a privilege is. It's really a personal privilege.

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For example, having to get up to use the restroom during a meeting.

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um Any concerns there not at all uh conflicts of interest. um We added, I that we added this.

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Clarifying language so that people would refer to other sections of not just rules but to our.

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City charter and our ethics ordinance. It's just a note. That's added a reference note.

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Any comments or concerns here: okay,.

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Rule 34 city clerk, um we changed the word executive to non-public. I think there'd been some.

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Confusion there executive is the old language that we used to use for non-public sessions.

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So we wanted to call them non-public, since that's what we call them in city council meetings, any.

C

I do have a comment on this. Let's see in about the fifth line down of the where states the city.

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Clerk shall note in the minutes all reports, memorials and other papers submitted to the.

C

Council by their title or brief description of the purport yeah and typo purpose, purport kind of.

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Connotates, a negative, false.

D

Well, I would ask: what does it mean? Does it mean report? Does it mean purpose.

C

I well, I would suggest that it should say purpose because purport connotates, a false statement.

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Could I ask the deputy city attorney for a view on that? I I would frankly just put the period.

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After the word description, brief description, wouldn't that kind of do it yeah, that's great. Okay,.

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Does everyone seem to think that's reasonable? Do you strike those last three words yeah, so we.

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Are striking the words of the purport five lines down brief and it the sentence? Would.

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End with counsel by their title or brief description period yeah. If you want an and.

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Title and brief description that might kind of get you more detail. It depends if you want that.

C

Yes, I think that's good, I think yeah, the more the better for the record and and.

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Any other concerns there with rule 34, no okay, um rule 41 addressed by the public.

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um And again, this was one of the the issues which was referred to us by the city council.

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We had discussed leaving it, as is even though it's not standard practice standard practice.

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Is currently to suspend the rules, so it requires two-thirds, but this would allow more flexibility.

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Not less, if you had five council members, for example, that wanted to hear from somebody so.

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Anyone have any questions around rule 41, no I've. No. I like that added flexibility.

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Rule 43 public comment session.

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There was general consensus to re leave public comment.

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As is so that we maintain public comment at all city council meetings,.

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The language is just amended in public dialogue, section b. So if you go to section b.

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And this language is designed to allow more flexibility for public dialogue, but also to remove.

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This, it's not, it doesn't become an alternative to public comment. In this case it becomes an.

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Additional opportunity for residents to speak with the council and and in more settings so that we.

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Have more flexibility to meet outside of council chambers outside of city hall, but that we would.

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Never we would not have more than three council members at a time, therefore, not creating a quorum.

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So this is, I think, the most significant language change. We have.

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And uh this would also presume scheduling of public dialogue sessions. Right are there questions.

A

Yeah, um there's just a slight confusion. The first time I read through it. um It first says that.

C

Such council public dialogue sessions, no more than three members of the council, the.

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City manager and any appropriate staff, as determined by the city manager and.

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In that sentence it implies city manager.

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Deter determines the council but below that's clarified. But I wonder if.

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That first sentence could be clarified a little bit.

C

I did not try to word wordcraft that.

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Right, so it's that second sentence, which is the awkward one. It's an awkward sentence.

B

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No more than three members of the city council, as appointed by the mayor.

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Period, the city manager and any other appropriate staff is determined by this.

C

I don't know I didn't try to work craft that but.

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I think it's a long sentence, it is it's a. It needs to be broken up. I think it's a long sentence it. It.

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Does I think it does express that what we're talking about is their city council members.

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But also the city manager and any appropriate staff, as determined by the city manager. um I think.

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That we want to make sure we have that flexibility, that we can have three members of the council and.

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City staff, especially when say you have a public dialogue session before something like a parking.

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Discussion or because your your neighborhood sidewalks right you're going to want somebody.

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There who's an expert on that from the city staff. um Would you like some wordsmithing here? Yes, yes,.

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Okay, so how about- and we can always put it up on the screen if it becomes useful at such council.

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Public dialogue sessions- comma no more than three members of the council- shall be present.

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Along with the city manager and any appropriate staff, as determined by the city manager period,.

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Interested individuals shall be welcomed for an informal dialogue session.

D

Got it does that work, yeah, yeah? Okay. So let's write that I'm going to write that.

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Yep write that out again I did yep okay. So let's read it out one more time: yep.

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um You can, if you'd like to at such council public dialogue sessions, comma.

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No more than three members of the council shall be present along with.

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The city manager and any appropriate staff, as determined by the city manager period.

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Interested individuals shall be welcome for an informal dialogue session.

A

Do we need a clarification um uh there on the city manager.

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um Saying uh the city manager or her designee yeah or the city manager's designee, yeah.

E

You could even put or designee in parens right after.

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That would be fine. I just don't want to put the city manager in a position that yep.

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Because she has to be at every single guess to who.

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So what we'll do is cynthia. We can do this right after the first reference to city.

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Manager put open, paren or designee close paren you're in the on deck circle, suzanne.

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Seems like a reasonable change yeah and I'm not even really sure that you need the.

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Interested individual shelby welcome, because the next sentence goes right into the purpose.

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Of this session is to provide an opportunity for members of the public to directly interact.

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So if you want to make it shorter, I think that next sentence talks about that.

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Inclusiveness and I'm I'm fine with removing that okay, the purpose of the session is to.

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Provide an opportunity for members of the public to directly interact with members of the council.

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The city manager and any appropriate staff is determined by the city manager from time to time.

E

What we decided is that sentence is now super floors, because, though,.

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This is the change here was counselors shall report back on the public dialogue session at the.

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Next regularly scheduled city council meeting the mayor shall determine which city council members.

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Participate in each public dialogue session on a rotational basis with the requirement that.

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All city councilors participate in at least one public public dialogue session in a calendar year.

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Are there any questions about those last two sentences.

D

What if we don't have enough public dialogue sessions to get every counselor to participate.

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We probably need to schedule more.

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I think that the goal here is to create more access right, um and it pushes that this rule.

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Would push the council to provide more public access? We'd need three in the course of a year.

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Yes, you would need at least three the way it was originally set up. It required it quarterly.

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So I think it's not unreasonable for us to require at least three sessions and if this were to pass.

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Now I think that there's reasonable time left in the year to schedule at least three public.

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Dialogue sessions, if not more we're early enough in the year right. Well, and you know our thought.

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In the council, discussion had been, these could be at neighbor, the citywide neighborhood forums.

D

And it's looking, I was just at that meeting with larry last week. It's looking like we're.

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Scheduling three: so, okay, you know that aligns that's positive yeah. That sounds good. Okay,.

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But that's subject to change of course, and this would also envision.

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An informal report back in the way that city councilors report back on committee work.

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Rule 47 appointments to boards and commissions. This essentially removes the requirement.

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That um people who have served 10 years that you'd have to advertise for people who serve 10 years.

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It makes it standard practice instead to always advertise all vacancies to boards and commissions.

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So, which is is the practice. I think that we're generally following anyway so.

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In essence, this rule um it was already we were already beyond this role as far as practice.

D

No, I think it's important that we get.

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All those openings be advertised so that we get.

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The best we can get, yes, I think, that's the goal and yeah. Those are all the rules that we had.

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Discussed prior that we had general consensus around.

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I would love to have a motion to move this forward to city council with the proposed changes that.

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We made today at the next city council meeting with a recommendation for approval, so moved.

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Second, okay, any discussion- and that includes today's revisions that includes today's revisions.

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Thank you all in favor, all right. Okay, the rules will go forward uh with recommendation recommended.

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Changes to the city council, the next city council meeting um the next item on our agenda.

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Was the discussion of next steps on the council agenda rule um we have been discussing for some.

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For several meetings now uh potential modification in the council agenda and.

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I think we haven't developed consensus around that, yet um at this stage I think I would like to.

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Go back and see if that we can find an expert on best practice to make a recommendation on the.

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Agenda this may mean that we just leave the agenda, as is, but this would put off further discussion.

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Of the council agenda rule until we can bring in an expert to discuss this with us, does that make.

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Sense, I think that's good yeah and since our last meeting did we get input from the city manager.

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About her desire for a place on the agenda for her items,.

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I mean we definitely want a place on the agenda for her items right. Yes,.

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Yes, yeah, I think that that at this stage I want to make sure that we're encompassing all those voices.

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And that we're not missing something, and that that we have somebody who can give us kind of.

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Reasonable feedback on what the best practice would look like for a city to.

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Streamline with the goal of providing more time for strategic discussion at the city council level,.

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To be able to handle issues that are.

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Really consented on items more more easily, so with that said,.

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There's no further discussion there if everyone's happy with that.

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Process then, let's go on to number five: the ethics process.

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Hoping that we have a status update today on where we are and how we're proceeding there.

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uh Let's see well vince and I met with the city manager, as you know, prior to.

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Our last meeting- and we got this memorandum of our discussion.

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We've not moved any discussion further than that, but I can recap where we were.

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We had the idea of an ethics officer, somebody who would investigate.

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An ethics claim when it came in that was favored not only by.

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Somebody who had lodged an ethics complaint in the past, but by somebody who had.

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Been the defendant in that action, they both thought there was benefit to having.

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An independent investigator who would give a report to the ethics committee.

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And that's what the ethics committee would deliberate on.

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We recommended.

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That any member of a governing body who is the subject of an ethics investigation.

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And a violation has been found.

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When that governing body decides the penalty that that individual should recuse themselves.

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We recommended that the current make up.

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Being four people should be five with one appointment by the mayor.

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um We recommended that the language about.

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Breach cause for an ethics complaint being breaching confidentiality of things learned.

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In non-public be strengthened, the wording is a little vague. There.

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Heard from council of former councilor kennedy that more time is needed to prepare.

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For the defendant, she spoke of having only several days, and I think that was that's a fairness thing.

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And we discussed whether the ordinance should compel the council or the governing body whether it's.

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Police, commission fire commission school board to take action or not and attorney sullivan's advice.

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Was you could put that language in, but it could be relatively quickly overturned by a governing body.

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And there's one more item that.

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We discussed early on and did not discuss with bob sullivan.

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And? That's that the ethics committee recommend a penalty with their finding.

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And you know that could be an item for discussion today or we could take that up later.

D

So that's where we are for right now: okay,.

C

I don't think I can add anything to that. I think john covered that pretty well.

C

Okay, you know, I think those are some pretty substantive changes. The ethics investigator.

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Ethics officer is, I think, an innovation that could make the process work more efficiently.

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And so I think, and it still it still includes the.

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Short, stop of the city attorney and yes, the mayor yeah that stays in place.

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And would we envision this ethics officer getting involved.

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Before a complaint comes to the city attorney and mayor or after I know that that was one.

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Of the nuances that we heard from former councilor kennedy last week or two weeks ago,.

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Do we do we have a vision for that yet? Well, I I think when we talked about it.

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I mean we would have a person basically on retainer who is well versed in ethics.

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And I think it could go either way.

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It's um there's something to be said for it to be handled internally, for.

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What might be termed frivolous complaints.

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um But anything of a more substantive matter probably could go to the.

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Or whatever we're calling it right. First.

D

Yeah so, in other words, does it rise to the threshold that it needs to be investigated. Yeah.

C

um And that's obviously, a subjective quality, maybe a legal quality. I don't know that's.

C

The problem with ethics, ordinances and in all the literature, I've read and I've I've read more.

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Than I ever expected to read in dealing with this is that it's it's not cut and dry right.

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And there's the question of.

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There's the question of.

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Are you, is it the appearance of an ethical conflict.

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Or an actual conflict and there can be an ethical conflict that.

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Has a dangerous enough appearance.

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That it undermines public confidence.

D

It's not clear, no, I I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to.

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Because I listened to public comment and former counselor huda had expressed a concern about cost.

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Related to hiring an outside ethics officer and ombudsman, and I think that that is a concern.

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Depending upon how many filings you receive in a time frame, because that is an expense that.

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That we would then have to start budgeting for and planning for how about, like a compromise being.

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It doesn't go to the ombudsman until after review by the city attorney or the mayor, unless either.

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Feels a need to consult the ombudsman to start the investigation yeah. So that way they have access.

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But don't necessarily have to go there right, um deputy yeah. I was curious. I haven't had time to.

E

Look to see whether any other municipalities, either inside or outside the state of new.

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Hampshire have adopted something, it seems like someone must have somewhere. So I was curious.

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If you wanted me- or maybe I could delegate this to someone else to to do a look around to see if.

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How other municipalities or agencies might be doing this in a way that hits that balance of.

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Not costing a lot of money but having that outside third right person, who's got the ethics training.

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And and can kind of be that fresh set of eyes and have that investigatory piece I mean.

E

Over the years, we've retained special counsel to do things, investigations obviously.

E

Over time- and it does get a little pricey, um but it's entirely appropriate in the right instance.

E

I'm also wondering if any of them get, you know, heaven forbid volunteers. You know someone.

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Designated within the community as part of their bar association or something who agrees to serve.

E

It you know, maybe some very discounted rate, so we had that last question. Yeah. We had that discussion.

D

That there are lots of people with the capacity and public spirit to want to do it. You know maybe.

D

There's a stipend for them same way as counselors get a you know our lofty 75 dollars a meeting.

D

But- uh and I think it'd be good to get either you or bob's input on this.

D

Because you know bob has certainly been through more of these than than we have yeah.

E

If you like them for the next meeting, why don't we caucus in the legal department and also do.

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Some searching and see what other municipalities or agencies might be doing. That might give us some.

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Some additional feedback and and thoughts.

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On this issue of a independent kind of budsman ethics officer,.

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Okay, I know one thing that I would really like to see: if possible is if we could start looking.

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At the current ordnance, language and looking at a draft of what this would look like changed so that.

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We can start working from text. I think sometimes it's easier for people to envision when we for.

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The public, especially when we're sharing text they can see the changes and see where we are.

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um Is that something that we think is reasonable for the next meeting to start.

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Kind of working on some of these recommendations from that perspective.

C

uh Yeah, I think so yeah I mean we would turn to to the city attorney. To do this. It depends on his.

E

We can give it a shot and see if we can get something for you for the next.

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Meeting um we have a good summary of the discussion right there.

E

I think we've got an idea of at least where there's some.

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Common, you know interest in in some of those changes we've talked about and if we have some.

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Thoughts on some ombudsman type language that could be woven in there while we continue to get.

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Some more information about who's, doing what and whether there's a good model that we can.

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Borrow from some other municipality or agency yeah, I think it would just be really helpful to have.

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To have public comment on actual proposed language, because right now we're we're dealing with kind.

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Of these esoteric ideas, which um I think we're in agreement that we need to move forward with.

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A lot of these recommendations, but what do they look like on paper and in practice? So I think that.

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Would be really helpful for everybody? Okay, we can I'll bring that back to the legal department and.

E

We'll take these notes and see if we can get you a draft for the next meeting. Thank you. Thank you is.

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There anything else we want to talk about around this today or we want to go ahead and move forward.

C

I'm happy with that yeah, um I'm happy with that too. The only thing I would add is that.

D

The recommendation around the ethics board.

D

Having a finding and recommending a penalty.

C

We also talked about increasing the number. Yes, members of the ethics right.

C

To five yeah, I think I'm fine with seeing both of those things in language and then.

A

We can get it. That was what I was going to ask. Is there a consensus around that.

A

I think it's it's sensible, because then we can get true public comment on what that.

B

Looks like with those changes and see where we are at that point: okay,.

A

Okay, um then, the next item on our agenda is city committee structure.

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When we first started this committee, I sent out a copy of.

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All the rules, the ordinances, all the committees at the city level, and one of the things that we've.

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Been tasked with addressing is committee structure and for a few different reasons.

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One of them is that it can be a bit confusing right now. Our current committee structure, because.

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We have in our committee structure, standing committees that are approved by ordinance. We have.

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Subcommittees, even if some of them are not called subcommittees of the council,.

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We have blue ribbon committees, then we also have you know, boards and commissions. On top of that,.

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And some of these committees kind of fall into kind of this in between status.

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And I think it can be really confusing to residents they're, not they're, also not all listed.

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With the city on the same page, on our website, which I think is also a little bit confusing.

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So I think we need to embark upon an effort to look at committee structure and make some.

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Recommendations to the council around what is what makes the most sense as far as functioning.

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Of the city and functioning of the council with regard to committees, what committees.

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And then we also have to ask ourselves what committees.

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Need to exist at the council level, what committees are just committees for staff. I think we have some.

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Committees that are functioning they're kind of in between serving staff, truly staff requests.

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And serving council requests so they don't really report back to the council. Yet they're listed as a.

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Appointed committees from the council, so I guess I have lots of questions around um what would be.

A

The best practice on committees might it be well. I know we had a list early on. I think that you.

E

Circulated of all the committees- and I was trying to see yes put my fingers on that.

D

With the february email, yes february 14th, I circulated a list of all the committees.

A

With the february 14th, I know, let me see if I can pull it up.

A

And I don't know if I can join, maybe I can join. Would it help if I joined the zoom and shared.

A

Okay, so I will do that, I'm almost wondering if we need a table at least to start with. You know some.

E

Of the committees yeah, you know because, for example, the cable communications commission.

E

That's a statutorily required one, so it's in our ordinance, but there's also a state statute.

E

That requires us to have one, and I'm I'm wondering if a little spreadsheet, with kind of some of that.

E

History, um you know we have our new cemetery committee, but then we also have our historical.

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African bearing ground stewardship committee, that's responsible for the memorial and for.

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Looking specifically and discussing issues related to you know the descendants and so there's some.

E

State statutes that kind of govern that which you wouldn't know, except if you've served on.

E

The committee and um and so I'm wondering if a spreadsheet, with a bit of that breakdown.

E

I also didn't know. Maybe we need to look at naming conventions because that may be part.

E

Of the confusion too, and then taking a close look at our website, I know we're right now, working to.

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Build out and update the cemetery committee, for example, website. There's a working group from that.

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Committee, that's working with stephanie secor to kind of put some pieces in place to make it.

E

Clearer and linked to other parts of our website, and it's just taking attention- you know it's like.

E

Oh, here's a gap um so if a spreadsheet like that would be helpful with a little bit of the.

E

Is there a statute, that's associated with this, or is there an ordinance or both in some cases.

E

Like with the cable commission, would that be helpful and then okay? I think that that would.

A

Be incredibly helpful, I just shared my screen so that the public can see what we're talking about.

A

They're blue ribbon advisory committees and so there's a whole series of blue ribbon advisory.

A

Committees and summaries of what they do, um some of them don't have, and those are it's important.

D

To identify them as blue ribbon committees, because they sunset at the end of the correct each council.

D

Term, so yes, but some of them don't, which is intriguing, some of them they, while they sunset.

A

We haven't been in practice of reappointing all of their members, so um so that's kind of the like.

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Challenge so one a good example of that would be the sustainable practices blue ribbon committee.

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um Is a blue ribbon committee, but we're not in the practice of reappointing.

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Them all we appoint new people, um so so I I guess we don't have standard practice.

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Is is my concern around the way we address all of these committees um and the way that they're.

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Supposed to function, um we have some that are defunct, like the von maul blue ribbon committee,.

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The boards and commissions.

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And standing committees, so these are all standing committees or boards or commissions.

A

And generally standing committees would be established by uh yeah by ordinance exactly.

A

But but we don't always have some of these representatives. So that's another concern as well.

A

I think we heard at the last council meeting like, for example, the demolition committee.

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Hasn't been meeting, I don't believe we have a coast representative right.

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Now the demolition committee, I think, is ad hoc right. It meets when there's a as needed.

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And so so then we have questions around okay, normalization of scheduling and what does.

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That look like and making sure that the public is aware of when and how these committees would meet.

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And then you have, we have a few new ones. Clearly, like governance and the new land use.

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Committee, which I personally would classify as subcommittees like the legislative subcommittee of.

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The council, but I'm not sure that that's actually the appropriate structure, given that the land use.

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Committee also has non-council members represented on it, so you'll see there. There are lots of.

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Different committees and commissions- and I think it can be extremely confusing to our residents.

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And it would be very helpful if we streamlined some of these, especially those that are no longer.

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Meeting and then I have another concern around not having committees that represent interests of.

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Large swaths of the city, for example, we have a recreation board, but we don't have a parks.

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Committee or a parks board, and we have a cemeteries board and a african.

D

Burial board exactly so, it would be very helpful if we can delineate responsibilities or we can say.

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You know who has responsibility, for example, a park that we don't have a blue ribbon committee for.

A

Does that it just falls to city staff, do we have any residents involved in those decisions.

A

Around parks and maintenance and decisions for right what we do with parks, for example,.

D

All of the decisions about prescott park.

D

Are right now under the city manager and dpw well and the prescott park, the trustees of.

E

Trust funds has historically weighed in on they've weighed in, but you know over time.

D

The the maintenance of the park moved from the trustees to the city.

D

That's true, which is a good thing, because the trust funds were not able financially.

D

To swing it so we're getting better maintenance of the park.

D

But there's no public component to it or not as much of a public component as you think.

D

So I agree with you councillor cook, I there's that's the the long-term direction of our parks.

D

Is something that we should take a look at and the chances for new parks.

D

Yes, there's some parts of the city that have those opportunities.

A

If we don't have anyone talking about parks and thinking and planning distinctly at from.

A

The public perspective about where we need parks, we don't get that public input and then it falls.

A

Just to to the city staff, and then they have to do special sessions to get public input.

A

Which I think it would be really helpful to have a responsive public body.

E

It sounds to me if we're going to explore.

E

How to get input on parks that I should touch base with both peter rice and with beverly mesa zent.

E

Because, certainly parks and open space is part of that master planning.

E

Process um so I'm happy to reach out to both of them and.

E

Kind of get some feedback and, if need be, you know if it makes sense to bring them here to.

E

You know the next committee meeting, where we have a table in front of us or when you're ready for.

E

That kind of input on how we get public input or how we could work with the committee to.

E

Get more public input on parks and care for our parks and new parks and yeah that stuff? Okay,.

A

So next steps here would be to put together a chart so that we all know um and bring this back.

A

um At our next meeting and start that discussion around where we have duplication of services.

A

Where we need services yeah- and I think some of the sort criteria so to speak would be. uh Is it.

D

A standing board or commission or committee by ordinance is it mayor's blue ribbon? Does it meet.

D

Regularly regularly scheduled does it meet ad hoc? Is it required by ordinance by state statute.

A

I think all those factors are really important and it's also really important for us to consider.

A

Our needs, as a city you know, do we have do. We have too many committees.

A

I think that's a question we have to ask because every time we have a committee meet.

A

We use staffing hours, which is an increased cost to residents.

A

um So we have to be talking about you know: how do we streamline that as well.

A

So that we have the most effective process in place without over utilizing city resources,.

E

And I'll also follow up with the clerk's office on particularly the mayor's blue ribbon committees.

E

And how that process of reappointment would work in the ideal world? You know in.

E

Terms of maybe increasing transparency and communication- and I know she has a process.

E

Which has been following process but clearly, if it's not, you know, feeling transparent enough.

E

Then we need to look at that and so I'll grab information from her and bring it back. Thank you.

D

It's interesting looking at some other cities and their committees.

D

We have more, but we have more because people are engaged. So you know that's a good thing.

A

I agree, I think it's a very good thing. um I think I'm really mindful, though, of not.

A

Being careful not to ask volunteers to spend a significant amount of time.

A

If it's not necessary and to make sure that their their expertise is utilized wisely,.

A

And so that's a goal. I think I have for this process too. I want to make sure that everyone who.

A

Volunteers feels useful and they feel like they're contributing right. You know one of our goals from.

D

Our retreat was to invite and welcome citizen engagement, but we want citizens to be able to feel.

D

Satisfied that they've made a meaningful accomplishments and contributions.

D

So we need to put them into work where we can get good results.

A

uh Any other concerns there. um I can't add anything at this point.

A

Okay, we will bring that back to the next meeting of governance. uh The next thing on our gender is.

A

The charter amendment process and suggested changes by councillor denton. This is another.

A

Issue that was referred to us by the city council that came up in an early city council meeting and.

A

We received a charter amendment process memo from legal explaining the charter amendment process.

A

The suggested changes by councillor denton involved uh recommending a change to voting.

A

By ward um and then at four at large seats, so that would put in place kind of a different method.

A

Of electing city councillors, I think that this is something that is going to elicit a lot.

A

Of comment um from the public- I think not just at the the governance committee level, but also at the.

A

Council level and it will require quite a bit of discussion. The charter amendment process is very.

A

Long, I'm not saying that I think that this will move forward. I'm just saying that. I think that.

A

The process itself is a long one, and any effort to amend the charter is going to take a long time.

A

I would love to start that discussion around those suggested changes.

A

And get kind of initial I mean, I know that there are some initial concerns. I'd love.

A

To hear your initial concerns around these suggested changes. If you haven't.

D

Well, anything that major we'd want a ton of public input.

D

And this may be something that.

D

Might be smart to review with past mayors, maybe a group of past mayors.

D

When we're look talking about ward representation and uh a separate.

D

A separate race for mayor those are very, very big changes, so I think.

D

And I'm thinking and talking at the same time here, which is always dangerous. But uh you know.

D

Some of our former mayors could give their input.

D

To this committee, but I think we need some other way to get public input.

D

I know myself what I'm hearing when I talk to people who've.

D

Been on past councils or on current councils is, if you have a separate mayor's race and two or three.

D

Councilors want to run only one person can be mayor.

D

And so you lose a couple of experienced counselors.

D

And then you know, if you have ward representation, uh is that as competitive a race is at large.

C

So also does word representation.

C

Kind of influence.

C

The sense of representing the whole city, or as opposed to setting up competition for.

C

Resources for ward.

D

D

And uh you know if you support this for my word, I'll support that for your award kind of.

C

Sounds like boston to me.

E

There is a fair amount of you know, experience direct from the you know. The other municipalities.

E

Here in new hampshire- and you know certainly at the legal department level when we talk with our.

E

Colleagues, in other cities, you know there are pros and cons and I think you've identified.

E

Some of the cons um with changing the structure, which is you know if you have a specific mayor's.

E

You know race that you're running, for you may lose two really good candidates and and who you.

E

Would actually like to have on your city council, um so that is definitely something that you know.

E

Is certainly a consideration um and we've also had a number of conversations with.

E

Other municipalities that you know do have the ward voting and you know sometimes it is that.

E

Sad factor, depending on where the award line is drawn, that your better candidates are just.

E

On the wrong side of the road, in terms of their experience and their interest and time to serve.

E

So you know there are pros and cons, obviously to to each, but certainly in our kind of informal.

E

Conversations with other council our form here in portsmouth, you know, has been pretty successful.

E

In terms of the civility of the conversations by and large over the.

E

Years I mean I've been here 18 years now. I think that was a long time and and just.

E

Yeah, the politics by and large, aren't too bad. You know they. They there seems to be a fairly good.

E

Common interest and- and I think the important thing which you guys are keeping in mind- is.

E

How to go out into those other neighborhoods that maybe don't show up to the city council.

E

Meetings because they have work, amendments or aren't as sophisticated with how to.

E

Work with government and get their voices heard, you know how to reach out to those communities.

E

Differently so that they they are heard and their needs you know, are not overlooked, um but.

E

um If there's anything we can do you know to kind of grab some of that information or.

E

Or give some feedback on what other communities are doing? I don't think, given the other work, we.

E

Could do that for the next meeting, but certainly we we have those conversations amongst you know.

E

Others who are in our positions about what what seems to work well and sometimes it.

E

Depends on the size of the community right, so a hundred a city of a hundred thousand.

E

It looks a little different than the size city we have so thank you and you know I'd like to.

D

Hear from councillor denton too, because it came up at our first council meeting and he.

D

Had it on the agenda under his name, but we never had a emotion, so we never heard him speak to it.

D

And say what what needs to be fixed here? What's: what's what's the rationale? What's the rationale.

A

Why don't we um not for the next meeting but in four weeks? So the meeting after that we schedule.

A

A more thorough discussion around this topic, we invite counselor denton to come and speak to that.

A

And then we also invite some.

A

Former mayors, at the same time, to come and speak with the governance committee.

A

And and have maybe a kind of an initial discussion around what views are and what experiences are.

A

And then we can we'll keep exploring this. I don't think that that's, that is by no means going to be.

A

The last meeting that we discussed this that's kind of the introductory meeting to move forward.

A

With this discussion, but it is something that we do do need to tackle, because clearly it was.

A

Recommended by a city councilor, the request went in so does that seem like a reasonable timeline.

A

To start in four weeks yeah, and I think we also need to know from our legal department is this a.

D

Revision of the charter, or would this require us to amend it yeah? Can we amend the charter.

D

Or do we have to go through the process of revision, a whole charter revision.

C

And our there are other things in the charter that.

C

Needs to be looked at right because once you open that door, you know that's a big big topic. Well,.

A

The good thing is is in parallel: there are some committees listed that we're supposed to have.

A

In the charter that are defunct as well, so it would give us an opportunity to also eliminate.

A

Some defunct committees, I think that haven't been around for 20 years or so are there things.

C

In the charter that the staff thinks are need applicating, I would say, that's probably a yes.

C

You know I mean this is a much bigger project.

C

Than just one piece of it, then.

E

My suggestion would be if, if we know that four weeks from now.

E

When you have that meeting, assuming that doesn't fall like on bob's baseball trip,.

E

Or something maybe we make sure bob is here for that. So if there's any issue with that.

A

If there's an issue we'll discuss at the next meeting, changing that, if we need to yeah this.

C

Is going to be a long process, no matter what so yeah this is and and ultimately we can talk about.

A

General things we could also do a request, general things from staff.

A

Around concerns in the charter in that meeting and just tackle those two things and that's it.

A

And those will be more informational kind of first introduction to any other other changes that are.

A

Requested in the charter: well, that's good because it looks like on the 25th. I am not here so we'll.

E

Put bob in the hot spot: okay, all right! So that's that's! What we'll plan for the april 25th meeting.

A

Instead, um thank you for sharing initial views. I think it's helpful for for us to start this.

A

Discussion, um knowing that it's it's a long time frame on that, um the next thing on the agenda that.

A

Also is is something that the committee needs to attack. Is land use, board, appointment, normalization.

A

And this came up because it seems like our appointment process.

A

For our land use board somehow got off schedule, so we don't have the.

A

Rotation that you would envision normally and that the state envisioned when writing the statute.

A

This requires some discussion with legal, but it also might require a little discussion with the.

A

State as far as land use boards, because we appoint people for three year terms. But I think the.

A

The vision there was always that the terms were three years, not necessarily the person was three.

A

Years and somewhere along the lines, we appointed somebody to replace somebody in a few different.

A

Boards and instead of fulfilling the term they served three years and that offset our stagger.

A

Which I think that every everyone benefits when there's a healthy stagger.

A

It means that every mayor gets the opportunity to appoint the same number of people generally.

A

To those land use boards in their two-year term.

A

And then we also have to ask the question around when those appointments occur.

A

Right and what is the appropriate timing? Because they, they are slightly staggered, but only.

A

Our two major landing sports are only staggered 30 days off of each other, and they also both fall.

A

Within a time frame that is after would be falls after an election. So there's question around.

A

That I think that it's key from a governance perspective. This is my viewpoint that we find.

A

A way to build trust in the populace and the way you do, that is by making sure everyone.

A

Feels that the process is fair, and so we want to make sure that it's a fair process.

A

And that no one has any perceptions that it doesn't so.

E

Suzanne yeah and I I know bob sullivan and I discussed how that stagger- might be.

E

Corrected- and I am looking for the notes in this file and I'm not finding them, but I know we.

E

Sort of came up with an idea of how we might be able to get.

E

Back onto the stagger that both the ordinance and the state statutes anticipated would.

E

Happen so I'll have to dig that up for the next meeting, because I know we talked about but.

E

My apologies so, in other words, there's a set number of positions that can be.

D

Turned over in a in a year, you know it's the way most committees are set up or launched.

E

You know both it'd also be helpful to know, because I don't think the end date of board members terms.

D

Are all the same, I think they're different for some of the different boards.

D

Some fall in you know. Some are in june, some are in december. I know those at least those two.

C

So and keep in mind some of the with the land use boards. Some of that may have depended on.

E

When the authorizing state statute came into effect, that granted the municipality and the.

E

Opportunity to set up that board and to implement it. So that's part of the history, I'm sure yeah.

A

I want to, I just want to double check that there is some form of relief when it comes to.

A

Resetting a stagger that may be over, it may have to occur over a certain number of years.

A

And portsmouth is in a unique position of having more people serving on land use.

A

Boards than is mandated by the rsa, which is also a benefit, so we might be in a.

A

Good position to do that to reset a stagger without having to interrupt any terms. But it's a.

A

It's a question: we have to kind of look at make sure that then we're setting ourselves up not.

A

To get off stagger again, um uh because that I think that that can create conflict in your.

A

Community, the last thing you want is conflict in government. um You want people to have faith.

D

Well, it should be stable and predictable. You know the same or consistent methodology for.

D

Each of the boards and right now, we've got differing end dates. Differing amounts of stagger.

D

So it's hard you, my impression, is it's my impression. You have to go.

D

To each board and look at the enabling yeah, you have to look at the ordinance.

E

Other people here in my office are good at excel. I fake it.

A

I know when I I warned the city manager after we established this committee, that.

A

We might be occupating a lot of legal time. I will apologize now in advance for that.

A

But we probably need to go through these one by one and as far as scheduling goes from.

A

What I can tell next week we're discussing the ethics process and committee structure.

A

And then, two weeks after that, we will discuss the charter amendment process and potential.

A

Recommendation from councillor denton as far as land use board appointment, normalization.

A

We probably should schedule that after we have handled one of these, like we've settled.

A

One of these issues so that we're not we're not going to settle the.

C

I know charter issues, no we're not going to settle the charter issue, but potentially we could get.

A

Through um our work on the ethics process in the next month and a half and and then be in.

A

A situation where we could take this up is kind of the next big task for the committee. Does that seem.

A

Reasonable, I don't, I don't want the committee to be overwhelmed. um There are only three of us.

A

um With all of this work, I think we've delegated it out pretty well.

A

So should we ask legal, then to start preparing kind of a primer on the.

A

Different land use boards and the rotations that we could use potentially in six weeks. Yes,.

C

Next week, six weeks, six months in six weeks next week in about six weeks time,.

D

And do we want to keep going it every other week.

D

In may, when we get the budget crunching, that's exactly what I was going to say is that you've got.

E

Budget coming in may and I'm sure that's going to take some time yeah. I think that.

A

That's that's a real question mark around this. I think that if we can get through.

A

The ethics process and address committee structure, I think a lot of these things.

A

That around charter and land use, in my view, will get pushed kind of to june.

A

Seems like about the time frame that we'll be discussing these, um because it would be nice.

A

To finish up some of these other tasks, we could do an interim report back to the council. Maybe.

D

On those first ones, that makes sense, um so I just want to make sure that we're all aware.

A

These are all the things that we've been tasked with. That's why they're on the agenda today.

A

The next is city council contact, communication processes.

A

Whether or not we're we have best practice there, for we have email, communication now and.

A

We have just added a public dialogue recommendation to the council.

A

But then the question becomes: do we need disclaimers on email? Do we need do? We need.

A

Anything around that- and this is, I think, generally a question that we can just refer to legal.

A

You know if we need a disclaimer that says this is this is the opinion of one city councilor and if.

A

We need a to make sure that all of our committees have information on policy around email and.

A

Use of email and public record right to know and also about reply all and creating a quorum and.

A

Right to know you know, I'm I'm just thinking uh some of the folks in the hr department are.

E

Much cleverer than I am in terms of eye-catching material reading material, so they do kind of.

E

Brochure pieces with pictures or graphics- maybe we do a committee member 101 type brochure.

E

With what to do, what not to do that is easy to read, got a little color in it.

E

You know just as a something to distribute or hand out. I know I we did one quite a while ago for city.

E

Staff on, I think, use of email, um just a reminder of do's and don'ts, or something like that, and I.

E

Thought, oh well, that's it caught your eye. You kind of looked at the graphics and you read the text.

E

Like oh yeah, that that did work a little better than your standard boring memo. So as long as we.

E

Don't have a short time frame on that I'd, be glad to work with hr and see if we could develop a very.

E

Simple colorful, you know eye-catching, you might not just file it away but might actually read it.

E

Kind of brochure um that would just be distributed every every year to committee members, new and old.

E

Because it does change, sometimes the the state law changes and we could kind of flag something.

E

Anyways, that's a that's a thought because I remember thinking it was eye-catching and.

E

It wasn't too much information for staff to say. Oh, I see what that what I you know.

E

That would be don't use city email to sign up for a netflix account. You know like.

E

Simple things, but sometimes people don't yeah, I always understand. Isn't there.

D

An internet and email use policy right now.

E

Yes yeah, but there's a long policy and then there's the quick reminder: takeaway yeah.

E

Yeah I I have particular concerns around whether or not all of our volunteers who set on committees.

A

Are aware, you know the city council receives a general orientation, but not people who serve on.

A

Committees do not always receive an orientation and whether or not they're familiar with some.

A

Of these basic policies, around communication and right to know, but then more generally, what they're.

A

Are they familiar with their responsibilities um it it isn't as critical at the committee level.

A

But once you move to a commission or board level and you have a quasi-judicial concerns.

A

It might be helpful to to to start this process as part of a bigger hr. That's training push training.

A

For training, yes- and it even could be an online training um where people watch youtube. Videos.

A

About their responsibilities, but something that, like a mandatory training, I will say.

E

The new planning director has been working with the land use boards to do training specific to.

E

Their obligations and responsibilities because you know obviously, as you just pointed out, they sit.

E

Frequently um in that quasi-judicial capacity, which is the the really tricky one, um and so I.

E

Know they've been doing some training and she's looking to kind of more formalize the process so.

E

I would say set aside the land use boards, because I think she's working.

E

Very diligently to kind of put pieces in place very specific to their responsibilities and.

C

And I know that obligations, city attorney bob.

C

Came to the hdc came to the planning board and stuff and reviewed these things.

C

um With us, when I was on the htc, I think we think he did that yearly.

E

It hasn't been yearly, but that's part of what the planning director is looking at, how to.

E

Yeah more regularize, I guess that process does new hampshire, municipal association have any.

E

Yes, and that she is, uh I think, has already uh tagged some of those resources for her awards.

E

And I can, if she's done, she may be able to do a short memo or something for this committee in.

E

Terms of what she's done there, if that would be helpful, I think that review that would be helpful.

A

Incredibly helpful- and you know maybe that's something that we can start looking at and.

A

Give her time clearly, I know that she has a lot on her plate right now, as well with some.

A

Employment agreements coming up so in six weeks as well- maybe we can revisit.

A

This, if we get a memo back, knowing that that you know we're looking at the long-term.

A

Best practice for for training of volunteers yeah, I think that's rightly falls under governance.

A

Okay, um the last thing uh really on our agenda.

A

Is uh and this one just came up, um increasing resident engagement on the cip and the budget.

A

This is I'd love to hear viewpoints on how we do this. We have a budgetary process coming up soon,.

A

D

Well, I can go back to way back.

D

When was the big recession, 8 2009.

D

We through portsmouth, listens.

D

Invited everybody to work in small groups to go through a budget exercise and the exercise was.

D

If you have to achieve a two or three percent only increase in the budget, how would you do it.

D

And it's, it was very informative. People learned a lot. uh People learned how to calculate what every.

D

100 000 of expense is in their tax rate, pretty quickly and clearly and.

D

And in the end, they chose to fully fund education and look at tighter budgets for public safety. This.

D

Was 2000? This was the recession times. It was not contentious, it was actually.

D

You know people worked through it, I'm just pulling that idea out. I don't know that we could launch.

D

Something like that in time for this budget cycle, but um citizens working in small groups.

D

Over you know, four nights can learn a tremendous amount and give a lot of feedback.

C

Yeah, it would be hard to pull that out now.

D

Yeah, um because it takes a lot of preparation, I mean you need to sort of.

D

And you need to have presentations by people from the city so.

D

But it was, um the former city manager was really uptight about it and then at the.

D

End said, you know that that worked out pretty well, we had to. We had to prove it's worth doing.

C

Is there a do, you think, there's a shorter version of that that might.

C

Incorporate some of those ideas but um be achievable for this budget session.

B

D

There's a group called.

D

I've forgotten now there are various deliberative democracy groups who who have models for it.

D

I could look into that.

A

I I wonder what the cost is associated with a program like that.

D

It's not much not much with portsmouth. No, it's energy, not money yeah. I was going to say that I.

E

Would agree with councillor tabor, which is it's a question of? Is staff? Can staff be geared up.

E

Enough to plug pieces in right um to that kind of exercise. um I'm intrigued. I don't remember.

E

Doing that exercise, so I probably wasn't dragged into it, but um I do think that I, like the idea of.

E

Smaller groups, because that's where you get that dialogue, different level of communication and.

E

And I really can fulfill our public dialogue sessions in one month.

E

You know that because you guys will be you guys, the counselors will be diving into the budget.

E

Details, maybe maybe a public dialogue, a couple of public dialogue sessions where.

E

You have that ability to engage um with citizens kind of one-on-one and explain.

E

Okay, here's the trade-off of you know: schools versus you, know, snow, plowing, kind of thing.

E

So yeah, maybe that becomes the the short-term way to increase that communication. Well, I'm.

E

Very much intrigued about whatever was done that I missed out. Some of them send us all some of the.

D

Material from I think that a lot of the council is also going to be learning the budget process.

C

And um so it's another reason, perhaps to do it um with the aid of staff too yeah. um It would.

C

Be informative, it would be informative to me. Certainly john you've gone through it before so.

D

Yeah, well, it's it's uh it. It takes a lot of focus from the council, it takes a lot of focus and we.

D

Get the privilege of of really reviewing each of the budgets with the department, heads and.

D

And asking the questions and you know we need to prepare for that carefully.

D

It's a challenge. Yeah. I see that process as being slightly daunting too, for residents.

A

When the counselors are when we're working in working sessions, I feel like some of our public is.

A

Is comfortable with that, some of the public is not comfortable making comments about something.

A

They're, seeing in a working session in this sense, public dialogue would be really helpful.

A

I'm happy to go back if you guys want and check with the city manager on.

A

Staff bandwidth around that because clearly we would probably want financial staff and.

A

During the budget season, that's also that's asking a lot more.

A

For a staff that is, I think, understaffed already, but do you want me to go back and ask the city.

A

Manager, if, if we could maybe schedule some public dialogue and have staff availability for that, if.

A

There is staff staff availability in addition to our budget sessions, yeah conversation and.

D

I think you have to approach it at a high level when we do the budget. We approach it at a line by.

D

Line level each night, our work session goes line. You know, goes into each department, but.

D

D

Rather than get into line by line detail, we want to know from the citizen engagement what people's.

D

Is there consensus around priorities because the budget's priorities right? It's what you fund and.

D

What you don't fund and where you fund expansion, and where you fund, holding the line. So if we could.

D

You know again, I'm thinking and talking at the same time and that's always dangerous.

D

But just a pie chart of here schools, here's police, here's fire, you know and priorities around those.

D

What are their major programs at work.

D

And demand for their services.

D

If it was at a high level, you know, I think you could have a fair amount of dialogue in one night.

B

It's reasonable and I think that relieves a lot of the administrative burden, because that's.

D

You know there will be there always.

D

Are engaged citizens who'll come in and read the budget online and they'll say.

D

I think you're spending too much on office. Furniture in the public works department.

D

But I think, what's valuable, for the council is.

D

You know: where do we think we want to spend more on services? Where do we think we want.

D

To hold the line on services, where do you think and and what's more important to you.

D

Level of service or your tax bill, you know everybody.

D

Says they want lower taxes, but nobody wants less services.

D

So I think a benefit of a dialogue is people actually have to confront those choices.

B

It's reasonable, I just imagined a scenario which would be pretty staff intensive, but that.

C

One night have three different out in the community meetings.

C

But then you, you kind of get it done in one night.

C

And you have representative staff and council there.

E

I think it's definitely worth a conversation and see if that's another way to.

E

You know make that public input, peace.

D

More engaging yeah, yeah, more open and available to those who are not comfortable coming to the.

E

City council meeting and you know just making a public comment who actually want to have that.

E

That dialogue and maybe a little q a and because it is it's a you know, municipal budgeting is a.

E

You know a little different animal than your household budgeting and there are similarities.

E

And there are differences and and john's right, it's it's about the goal. Setting too.

E

You know where are your priorities so so I will have a conversation with the city manager.

A

About scheduling time, for that with staff availability, checking on availability, I'll report.

A

Back in our next meeting at the end of our next meeting, and we can determine if we want to make.

A

A recommendation to the council to move forward with a session on the budget yep that sounds good.

A

The final item was committee priorities for the next meeting. I think that we've identified those.

B

Yes, um so I I want to move to public comment. We have about 17 minutes left in the room. I.

A

Want to make sure that we can hear from everyone. So is there a public comment.

A

Please come up.

F

Where would you like us to sit wherever you like, we're very flexible? uh What are the guidelines.

F

Is there a time limit, uh we try to limit to three minutes for public comment, if possible. That's not.

F

A hard limit, thank you so I'll try to just speak on things that I have firsthand knowledge on.

F

uh My name is greg mohanna portsmouth city resident planning board member first of all, I'd.

F

Like I'll go backwards from most recent to before, so I can share time with my associates out here.

F

Governance committee is uh pretty important. I mean you.

F

Have a big reach over a lot of important things like the charter, 10 am on a monday.

F

Doesn't promote public involvement, anybody that works for a living, hates mondays.

F

And 10 o'clock on a monday, you couldn't have picked the worst time.

F

So I'll give you that note. Next up city, council, communications, email policy, things like that.

F

And you spoke about hr and committees and boards, the new planning director she's doing an excellent.

F

Job love her good communication she's in the deep end of the pool staff, isn't supporting.

F

Her as a new planning board member, we got nothing nothing. We had to ask for it. Okay,.

F

Nothing not even an email list of who was on the boards and who our contacts are in the planning.

F

Department, we had to drag it out last planning board meeting. We never got an email with the.

F

Planning board package ever it was supposed to be out the friday before the thursday planning board.

F

Now some of us use the city ipads, but we've learned that that whole communication process.

F

Is horrid because the friday before you'll get the package and then between that friday and thursday.

F

All kinds of stuff comes out, public comment, yada yada and it doesn't get added to the.

F

Package, it's only sent an email, so the only way you could possibly be prepared at the.

F

Meeting is to have a laptop here with city communications on it and the ipad over here.

F

Because we're not allowed to use email on the ipad, so we can't get all the public comment. Documents.

F

So, as you probably know, the planning board package is over 400 pages on a regular basis.

F

And there's no organization to it: there's no hyperlinks, there's no nothing and it totally.

F

Hamstrings, in your own words, one of the more important land use boards in the city.

F

So we started off at a disadvantage now I would tell you that also we, we did get all the links.

F

To the state videos and some of us watched them all and and they're very informative.

F

But it does and that's great from a high level perspective, but it doesn't give you any nuances.

F

To what's going on in portsmouth and we've yet to have any training.

F

And as a perfectly good example, six o'clock, wednesday night, we have a.

F

Meeting of the planning board, which is public oddly enough, but it in involves.

F

What we do and what our responsibilities are, I only learned about that this weekend from and.

F

From the chair- and he said well, they were supposed to send that out last week. Well, good idea and.

F

Then, when we finally got the agenda the second time today, they took the most important thing.

F

Off of it work sessions for planning board members, as you guys know, as council numbers.

F

You can't go in cold pick up an issue and debate it in an efficient and timely manner. You got to.

F

Know about it in advance, so you can either form your opinion. Do your research or do your due.

F

Diligence, so you can't walk into a meeting cold to fire off a big issue like one of the biggest.

F

Buildings in downtown portsmouth as an example for a planning board member moving right along.

F

Governance committee planning board there's an extra planning board member on there. It's been.

F

Dexter leg ignored it, rick chalman pushed it multiple times it has been put in writing on.

F

Appeals for two recent projects that the planning board had issues with and appeals in writing.

F

It's been mentioned by developers, so it can't be ignored any longer. You know it was a bohenko thing.

F

And it was a dexter leg thing and look at the planning board charts. We have one extra member.

F

That shouldn't be there, nobody wants to address it. Last but not least, this one's kind of simple.

F

I'm on a lot of boards uh talking about the amending the charter, it's pretty simple guys.

F

On any uh corporate board congress association or whatever, there's always a bylaw committee.

F

Because you can't change a by-law without a majority vote of whatever those shareholders.

F

Are or residents or whatever that is so the bylaw committee is tasked with catching those proposed.

F

Changes and vetting them and teeing them up based on priority in a way that they get passed because.

F

If you've ever been on any homeowners association board or corporate board, walking up in front of.

F

The room and proposing a bylaw change you might as well paint a target on your chest. There has.

F

To be a committee to put that change together and tee it up in a manner that it's going to be useful.

F

For everybody's time, thanks guys, I know there's other folks that want to talk. Thank you so much.

D

Could I just ask suzanne a question? Yes, do planning board members have a.

D

Email capture the same as city counselors,.

E

No and keep in keep in mind that, because they sit in a quasi-judicial capacity,.

E

You don't want the public to be weighing in outside of the public hearing. You want.

E

There's a the process has got to be within that public hearing process when they're taking.

E

Input from others now I do know, the planning director has been very concerned about the.

E

The late notices and lack of notices what you know she is very well aware of the fact that the.

E

First, two months were um pretty bumpy, and so she has been working um with other staff to try and.

E

Fix that to put in a better process, so I think it'll be good I'll have her include that and.

E

Kind of her report back because that's something that has been high on her priority list to fix.

E

The process issues that she had to deal with when she arrived here again. I wasn't critical of her. I.

F

Support her completely she's, not getting support from staff and we're working on that one. So.

E

Yep. Thank you good morning, good morning, peter petrahuda, 280 south street. I'm going to.

G

Kind of make comments, as I wrote them down here and went through the list. My first question is.

G

Why weren't weren't the minutes included in the package just like the agenda and most meetings? If.

G

You're going to approve minutes there, they should be included in the package for the public to view.

G

That was my first thing. My next question is.

G

Due to the fact that you didn't have a quorum last time, how does it work that um the rules that you.

G

Actually agreed on you weren't supposed to make any decisions were put in the packet to be okayed.

G

um That's just a question, um then I'd like to go back to um the discussion on you on the rules.

G

And um I guess just put some comments and some points for you to consider forward um on rule 43.

G

Something you might consider um what what I'm asking about is the the section you.

G

Put in there that the counselors will report back at the next council meeting.

G

This is kind of contrary to a subject that is fresh and in everybody's minds. At that time,.

G

And it also could have in in that period of time, between one meeting and next, the decisions could.

G

Have been made and the the subject could have been could have moved on. So um just like is.

G

Is or was done now before the pandemic? I would. I would ask you to consider that.

G

Previously, a counselor that was involved in the discussions would do um do a summary to.

G

The council and the public and then if the public um had a dispute with that it would.

G

It would be able to be discussed in the public comment. That's my first one. My next one.

G

On the discussion about ethics, I totally support having an ethics officer. The thing.

G

I would ask you to consider seriously here, since you will be considering spending taxpayer money is.

G

That, if this person is going to be independent and be your expert on ethics and law, that that person.

G

It when, if this complaint comes in, would be the first contact the prior, the problem.

G

Here and we we've seen it in the last two ethics complaints that came in was that.

G

Prior to even making a judgment or an announcement, we had we had one of the people. The mayor.

G

Make a public statement where his position was, so we all knew what was going to happen prior.

G

Because the statement was made in public and put in the newspaper, so that would be a consideration.

G

To to have this actually be an independent qualified party like like it like, was discussed.

G

um The other problem I have here- and I would like you to consider this- is um the the fact.

G

That you're, considering having the ethics committee, make a recommendation for a penalty.

G

I guess I'm having a problem here from my experience on on the audit committee.

G

Because the audit committee by ordinance was supposed to make a recommendation.

G

By vote of an auditor- and this did not happen-.

G

We we, the public, still have no idea who was voted on and who was accepted or moved forward.

G

The presentation that councillor tabor did did not satisfy me as to what actually happened per.

G

The vote of the audit committee and did you did the council vote on the on the recommendation.

G

Of the audit committee for an auditor- that's that's an open question. The the next thing is.

G

um The all of this was not moved forward to the public for any for any idea. The governing body.

G

Is still the council no matter, no matter? The recommendation of the audit committee.

G

Or a an ethics committee and the decision is theirs and there's a loan.

G

The next thing I would like to speak about.

G

Is let's see, I guess I could just hit increasing resident engagement in the cip in the budget.

G

The discussion that councillor tabor had put forward is basically called the finance committee.

G

And I could tell you from my experience as a resident now.

G

That putting forward something on the cip.

G

My experience has been, I was not. My questions were not acknowledged. My questions were not answered.

G

um And they're still hanging out there and uh basically it depends on what the city council.

G

Wants to hear and wants to move forward, people don't want to come forward and just talk blindly.

G

To the council and have everything ignored my experience, so I don't know if that helps you, but.

G

That's that would be the problem there, so I guess the last thing I I kinda like to discuss is.

G

And go back to the ethics thing and the ethics complaint that is standing currently against.

G

Councillor tabor the audit committee, when it was formed and written down.

G

Had put safeguards in there and the safeguards were that the presentations would be done.

G

By experienced financial professionals and what we saw basically was a counselor coming forward.

G

And giving non-public confidential information out that was discussed in an audit committed.

G

Meeting and then possibly in another meeting and disclosing how many proposers there were.

G

And the name of the proposer, who was not selected now that is critical, because the problem is.

G

Until a contract is signed and deputy city manager, whatever hat you have on today,.

G

uh Knows this, um the process of negotiation doesn't and is not guaranteed to put in.

G

The first selected auditor auditor vendor, whatever you want to call it and what happened.

G

Was you notified the non-selected persons or vendors in public? So that's according to rsa421a.

G

That's a breach- and I don't know I don't know- have any idea how it's going to be dealt with.

G

This precludes the charter. This goes to the state statutes, so I just want to clarify that.

G

And make sure that, in doing good governance, this is considered in the future. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Is there any more public comment? We have about three more minutes.

A

I know somebody is using the room at noon so.

B

Mark brighton, south mill street, uh I have a question. The question won't lead to an ethics.

B

Complaint, but mr mahana also has mentioned it that the meeting time here is untenable and.

B

Since madam chair has made herself the ethics expert on the council, is it.

B

Ethical to have meetings at this time when the governed can't really attend.

B

I you know, I mean you have how many people here today. This is absurd. You need to hold.

B

These at a reasonable- this is a damned important committee and yet you're treating it like it isn't.

B

Because you're not giving the people a chance to weigh in is this ethical.

A

Is there any other public comment.

H

My name is liza hewitt. I live at 726 middle road. um I um mine may be viewed as.

H

Not that important, but um it's something that's been bothering me and I think, if you're talking.

H

About communication with the residents, it would be very helpful if you could fill out your calendar.

H

On your city website, so that I as a resident, who has somewhat busy schedule and does not.

H

Have the time to know about meetings that city hall knows about well in advance.

H

And is not put on the calendar, for instance the parking traffic and safety committee. That is.

H

Not on the calendar for the 7th of april, I make an assumption that that's when it.

H

Is because usually they are the first on thursday of the month, the time has changed.

H

The land use committee meetings that I know have been scheduled are not on the calendar.

H

And so I think if you want residents involved, I understand you do not have to, or at least my.

H

Understanding from others is that you do not have to put those on until 24 hours in advance.

H

But my goodness, if you want us to come out and speak and you care about what I as a resident.

H

Have to say, I really think that you could put that on the calendar, especially since I know.

H

You know when those meetings are right now, so that's what I would ask the cip. I think maybe.

H

Some recommendations have been made by residents as to how you could clean up the cips to make them.

H

More understandable for city residents, they're, not there's no chain of of what's been proposed.

H

In the past, what's currently on the cip, why? It is that things have dropped off the cip and again.

H

You know that needs to come from you, folks. If you want us involved, you need to help us. You.

H

Need to make it easier for us to be involved. And if we don't understand what you're talking about.

H

From one year to the next, with the cip, it's very hard to be involved. Thank you. Thank you. You have.

B

One zoom person who might want to speak is there any more comment from the room? Okay, on zoom.

I

Hi, this is arthur, clough 431 pleasant street. Can you hear me? Yes,.

I

I have concerns about the timing of the governance meeting as well, but also I have concerns that this.

I

Council has broken so many rules. Already on the 22nd of february, uh you clearly had a non-meeting.

I

Where you couldn't get to an agreement on an amendment to the dining ordinance so.

I

The city manager and the mayor both said: hey, let's, go, take a break and we'll come back with a motion.

I

And that's exactly what happened! No minutes for that meeting and also, I believe it was on.

I

3-5 there was a non-public and it had really no description, but we saw the audit committee there.

I

I'm not going to say too much more because I know that we're over time.

I

But if you're going to be doing the governance changes, you got to be able.

I

To handle, what's on your plate already not having non non-meetings, not violating right to know, laws.

I

Not leaving people in the dark, I am surprised that there were no attachments. You had a.

I

Document there there was nothing about it attached to the meeting when I went online.

I

That's not transparent, and then the last thing is this is not either on youtube or on the public.

I

Channel right now, so I sure hope that you're recording the zoom meeting because I'm not sure.

I

Why the previous meeting was was recorded, live and shown, and this one isn't thanks.

A

A

With that, I'm going to close public comment. Is there any other business.

A

I entertain a motion to adjourn so again. Second, move all in favor, aye, aye.