City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 4 May 2022

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5.4.2022 Historic District Commission

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A

Okay, welcome to the may 4th 2022 meeting of the historic district meeting. We've got a long.

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Agenda today, so please everybody bear with us, especially if you're on the tail end of this thing,.

B

I would like to say the board's actions in these matters have been deemed to be.

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Quasi-Judicial in nature, any person believes any member of the board has a conflict of interest.

B

That issue should be raised at this point or it will be deemed waived.

B

Okay, I want to introduce our members here. At the end, we have einstock sherbert.

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We normally have dan brown, who I know is going to be walking in dr brown.

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Any second now and then we have martin ryan good evening and reagan rudy good evening. uh Planner.

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Nick crack now good evening, our council rep, is rick blaylock good evening and margo doring, hello.

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David adams good evening, karen bouffard good evening and I'm john wykoff, so we're going to.

B

Get going here, the first order of business is our approval of minutes.

B

So we have april 6 and april 13th. um Would somebody like a motion or does anybody have any.

B

Move to approve a second all those in favor hi. Yes, all right, so we've.

B

Gone through that now, administrative approvals and nick usually reads these.

C

Okay, we have six tonight, maybe before I go through them, does anybody want to announce a.

C

Recusal or a pull out of any of the six, otherwise I'll start at 60 pen hollow and work. My way down.

D

um uh Mr chairman, I'd like to recuse myself from the penn hello uh project in as much as I wasn't.

D

Part of his approval, I have very little basis to judge any of the changes that are taking.

E

Yeah place: okay! Well, that's it yeah! That's all right! Yeah, sir good enough people right yeah,.

C

We have enough people. Thank you, sir all right, so why don't? I do 60 pen hollow first david and then.

C

We can still go right through them. Does that work? John, that's fine and, I would say.

B

That, uh karen, you should vote on this okay since you're sitting next to him.

B

He's going to nudge you a little all right he's going to pull it up here. That's what happened.

C

All right what the applicant is seeking for 60 penn hollow.

C

Is a number of revisions to the previously approved uh project? um There are five or six.

C

Items that are that are called out in the images that were presented in the plants.

C

They're they're clouded they're. Removing the clouds on the plans indicate the changes.

C

They're, removing and adjusting some of the solar panels per the fire department requirements for.

C

Circulation on the roof, so all the drawings look like the one on the screen with the.

C

The clouds there in red showing the particular portion of the building, where they're.

C

They're changing the design they're, adding exhaust fans some ducks. This is as the mechanicals get.

C

Finalized for the interior of the uh the program space there's a fireplace flue gas meters, some.

C

Door changes and window heads and they're adding some ac units. The lion's share of these changes.

C

Will not be visible from the street. Obviously the the door and window head changes will be.

C

Gas meters are down low, but everything else, I believe, is on the upper floors of the roof. So.

C

Tracy is there anything you want to add to that yeah good evening, tracy kozak. I just want to clarify that.

E

um Where there are only two changes, which is we're removing four solar panels and that's.

E

That fire department has uh access to cut holes on the roof to let smoke out in the event of a fire.

E

Can't see it from the road and the other ones, we are adding two boiler flues at the roof and a.

E

Fireplace flu, the other equipment, air conditioners and whatnot were the previous uh previously.

E

Approved so that was a few months ago, the drawings, each on the bottom in red will say previously.

E

Approved or proposed, and so the changes I mentioned, removing the solar panels and the.

E

Flues are proposed, so that's what was approved last time. It's not what we're here for tonight.

C

So in the future be good not to have those if it's been previously approved and you're, not changing.

E

It we just want to show the before and after, but we can certainly okay, simplify that. Thank you.

C

So a reduced list there dealing with the solar panels and the.

C

The vent stacks on the roof, and I really I should probably recuse myself from this one.

F

Last minute, good good, so hinds is in so okay well dan's, here, okay, two three, four five yep.

F

Motion to approve, as presented seconded okay, uh any discussion.

B

All those in favor say aye aye against all righty. Thanks for permission, thanks.

B

Tracy all righty all right, 303 pleasant street. This is a request to add 30 feet.

C

Of fencing, four feet tall and a custom gate on the southwest corner of the property, just pull up.

C

So in the location shown there in the highlight the proposed fence.

C

And the location and the fence design. So it's installation of a new coin and any comments.

C

Concerns with that okay, so let's maybe keep going right does that work.

C

All right, 333 marcy street, uh again a pretty straightforward application. They are seeking.

C

To install a natural gas furnace in the inside and a condenser outside with the conduit, it's.

C

Not a very easy drawing to see if you look at the screen, but this is behind the house.

C

It's not visible from marsy street, but this is essentially where the the uh equipment will be.

C

Located behind the structure and that's how the conduit goes along the mud board into the basement.

C

Again not not visible from varsity or, I guess south middle any questions on that.

C

All right we'll keep going if there are any we'll come back number four.

C

This is 29 bond. This is a storefront modification where the applicant is proposing to remove this.

C

uh This panelized section here in the single pane of glass and put in one big pane of glass.

C

On vaughn street, in a structure that was probably built in the 1970s.

D

uh Mr cracknell, I'm assuming just looking at the the photograph and the lines that have put on it.

D

That they're proposing to put a window in the same size as the window on the other side of the door.

D

One would think so, but will one just think that will that one actually see that.

C

If that's what you want, I think we should specify that if that's the more appropriate, which it seems.

C

Like it would be, let's get the cemetery, I'm a sucker for symmetry. I don't know about anyone else.

G

Oh perfect, tony dickinson, that's going to be her space, um that's a different business, but.

F

They'll be comparable in size, I think they're the same square footage but it'll just be a.

G

Full pane of glass similar to I think it's lovebird donuts, that's going into that space.

C

So they'll match, as far as I know I mean I don't know proportionately if the.

F

Front storefronts are exactly the same all up and down bond street, but.

G

They'll look the same. I don't know if they're inches off or not, but how about.

C

Substantially matching yeah just to have a little wiggle room, certainly better than what's there.

E

All right, yeah it'll, be close with that. Thank you kind of language. Thank you.

C

Okay, so that'll be a stipulation.

C

C

All right number: five: we are talking about 17 cell street and this is a request for replacement of.

C

A fence, it's a very similar design, but not the same. The existing fence has no posts and caps as.

C

Shown on the image on the screen and the proposed fence does have posts and caps. Otherwise, it's a.

C

C

Okay, all right, the last one is 414 state street.

C

This one's a little trickier, I know it says, recommended approval, but um it's again that I'm.

C

Going to try and turn this yeah what's going on here, just drawing on a napkin or something right.

C

Here, what is this so that this structure here on state street, let me zoom out, is proposing to.

C

Add the mini split and the chase or the conduit up the side of the building.

C

Not in the most inconspicuous space, but I think what they're trying to do is mirror the.

C

Fire escape that that's shown further down the building wall between the two windows.

C

They are proposing this. Is it again, I keep turning these drawings, but let me turn it again.

C

There so it's going up to this location. This is the fire escape here inside that channel and.

C

They are proposing, I believe, to paint it a different color than the siding. No, it's it's.

C

A factory color it's um right, but they could brown on red buildings, so I mean it normally. It would be.

C

Painted to match rather than right, I think we should require that. So once again, it's another.

C

Piece of conduit going up the outside of the building is this the most appropriate location to.

C

Put it uh given what they're trying to achieve the unit itself, the actual pump unit is, uh according.

D

To the drawing so some 30 36 six inches tall and it's going to stand somehow on some 12 inch tall.

D

Stand thing sitting on the ground um in amongst where the trash cans are yes,.

C

A

Yeah is this something we would typically scream 23 inches from house, I'm thinking how we could.

B

Screen it because the the reality is they've got all those gas meters also, I wonder if that's.

B

Something that should be considered. This is, what do you mean as a screen.

C

Or no uh screening the gas meter, that's awesome.

F

It's such a narrow space, though I don't see how you can get. You wonder how they plowed honestly.

F

Yeah, I only have like seven stanchions. Are there carefully yeah? I guess um it it's. I have to say.

D

It just this is a very for something. That's on the side of the building. It's a very public view.

D

It is a very handsome house is certainly a contributing structure to our.

D

Historic district, it is not as it was built on its first day, but it has been very, very well.

D

Maintained and slightly upgraded over time I I know that we've never succeeded.

D

In any kind of a conversation with the gas company, but that doesn't mean that.

D

That we have to I'm I'm bothered by the unit I'm bothered by the unit itself anyway. Thank you.

C

I mean just just a thought, but if, if people like the idea, maybe we should pull this out, then.

C

Yeah, okay, but if the location is appropriate, but the screening is not, they should come back.

C

With it with an appropriate screen for that, if people feel that way, but yeah we can pull it.

C

Out first, if you want, I mean something else that could be done since I'm such an expert on these.

B

Having two of them on my own is that the unit itself, the condenser, could be around the corner.

B

And the piping could run either underneath the mud sill along the foundation and then up.

B

The piping the tubing comes in 30, feet, 50 feet, 100, foot lengths, and so it would just be a matter of.

B

Somebody you know having to purchase the longer length of the tubing.

B

Because it's all pre-charged and everything it's all set to go, you know, so it comes in certain.

B

Lengths, but I know with a longer length they could get around the corner and hide this thing.

B

If it's important that everybody else some way, we can give them either option and they can choose.

A

If they want what so either screen it or to run it around the back, I don't I'm afraid of the.

A

Like what we talked about, how narrow it is- and I am too um creating a screen in there and then.

A

Like it might not even be feasible, that would be very helpful if they came.

G

To the meeting I mean in general, I don't have a I'm, not too bothered by it, because there is.

F

Already this huge line of gas meters, it's kind of like throw another thing in there and garbage cans.

F

It's not like we're junking up a really pristine side of this building um and I don't see.

F

No understanding where they're trying to pipe this into in into the like, which room they're trying to.

F

Get to um I don't this, I don't see any other place where they could possibly do this. So.

F

That being said, I think main stipulation is that they paint the conduit to match the red. The clouds.

F

I'm fine with giving them the option of either figuring out a screen or.

F

Putting it around the building, if that's.

C

And come back for administrative approval either either of those options. I think that makes.

C

Sense, I think it's fair and if we're missing something they'll be here to tell us why that.

B

Okay, so the stipulation would be painted to match the red siding for the for the conduit and that.

C

They returned for administrative approval of either a screen in the proposed location or.

C

That it be relocated to the rear of the building and and the conduit run along the mud board to the.

C

Condenser very good yeah is this not at the rear of the building, I'm confused by the size.

F

Side no you're saying it's on this side. It's right there.

A

This this side right here is a picture. It would be the right hand side if you're on.

A

The street that's the driveway and the parking's all behind the building yeah. It's the meters, are.

F

In that tree, they're like behind you, can see in the other picture, it doesn't look the same.

F

Yeah, it is it's just scrunched in there it's it's behind that granite post.

B

Okay, um so we have a stipulation for that one. um Would somebody like to make a motion for these.

B

For two three four five and six: well, I'm sorry are we are we postponing six until next week, so.

H

They can come just with the stipulation you can approve, with the stipulation they're not going.

C

To be able to do the installation, we've already postponed it once hoping that they would come.

F

Come yeah, so nobody here right for is either they're going to come back with a plan for.

B

Screening and hopefully that takes care of the garbage cans also or come back with the idea of.

B

Putting the actual condensing unit around the back of the property- okay, that's the stipulation so.

E

I don't feel we have enough to approve the last one: oh okay, all righty gas meters may.

C

Not have been installed yet when that photograph was okay, that's confusing.

E

uh The glass meters footage yeah, the gas meters- has happened across the city.

B

In the last three or four years right, you know because you know it was really nice at one time.

B

The gas meters were all hidden in the basement and then all of a sudden there was somebody.

B

Outside my house- and uh you know putting in these metal pipes and all this stuff, I guess.

B

The real problem is, in the south end against your will right yeah against your will. Basically yeah.

B

So uh we're going to move on to public hearings, old business, uh petition of donald and rasa stone.

B

Owners for property located at 55 gate street, wherein permission is requested to.

B

Allow renovations to an existing structure, replace windows, repair or replace, siding and trim repair.

B

Foundation, replace bulkhead and remove a chimney as per plans on file in the planning department.

B

Said property is shown on assessor map 103 as lot 90 and lies within the general residence, be.

B

In historic districts, I want to say that we did go to a site, walk and look at this project, so.

B

Who's here to make the presentation, mr chairman, I need to recuse myself from this application.

D

Because no I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I'm sorry big mistake. Sorry different project.

B

I'm sorry, okay, next, all right. The next one: okay.

B

Go ahead, yes, ann whitney, I'm the architect for the project. Before I start, I'm just going.

I

To hand out one of the issues that come up at the last meeting with surround for the triple.

I

Door on the east side- and I just have a detail of that.

I

I

So we were here before um last month and you know the main issue that we're two issues that.

I

We're dealing with was the replacement windows and um the removal of the chimney at the rear.

I

Of the structure- and we did a site walk just as john had mentioned, and we'd still.

I

Like to be able to go forward with replacing the windows with the elevate, marvin elevate product.

I

um And the chimney on the rear, which you can really see from a drawing four of four.

I

As a photo, the main view of that is from hancock street and.

I

The other issues that we dealt with last time that didn't seem to be as much.

I

Basically, replacing trim and window door trim at the roof and around the windows, the existing.

I

Surround at the entry is pretty much stay, the same will just get repaired and repainted.

I

And not all the trim would be, repair is just where it needs to be.

I

And it's going to be some foundation work at the bay and there's another one-story.

I

Addition in the back so we're going to have to be kind of rebuilding those two foundations.

I

And nothing new from the last time. I think, though, we left the last meeting.

I

Sort of with the window question up in the air.

I

Are there any new questions or.

I

I can go through page by page if you need to, but.

B

Well, um didn't we go through this once before, but.

I

Yeah, does anybody have any questions? Yeah comments, questions. I have a comment. I think the.

J

Right side elevation is much more improved with how you've kept it and.

J

That's my only comment. I I think it looks in order.

F

um My only question: where are the e windows? Little awning windows? Are those there's only.

I

One, and um actually you don't, have a photo well, you can sort of see it watch that microphone. Oh.

I

Yeah, actually, if you go on page four of four the view from hancock street okay there's a little.

I

Existing window there that's like a double little tiny, two casements I'm going to take that.

I

Out and just put a simple awning with a single mullion, so yeah, you can see it on that same page.

I

For a four right, my, like my question of that, was just because.

F

It looks like the color of that window is different, where all of the rest.

F

um Are white and the thing that bothers me about the marvin elevate windows is that they have that.

F

That sort of track around the whole thing yeah most uh yeah, the yeah. The signature has that too.

I

It's slightly different configuration right, but it just if it's a dark color, a different color.

F

The jam liners this is going back to right. Dan rawlings would get into as well, but it's um it can.

E

Be woody it just pops out and it's not attractive, it doesn't look talking about the jam liner or the.

I

Yeah yeah, so if we went we're doing stone white and we do the white jam lighter, then it's gonna.

I

Yeah yeah, then that will be fine. If it's just if it's a dark window, sometimes it yep it does that.

F

But that's a tiny window that can't be seen, so I'm not I'm not concerned about that. So.

I

We went back and forth on choosing a color, but I think given this location and that it you know.

I

To stay with the white, the stone white it makes it simpler, makes the windows pump out a little.

I

Bit and it gives you a lot more choice on all the other color yep well for the body of the.

I

Of the tabloids and things yeah, so I would just hope that you'd keep the trim.

I

Trim color the same as the as the window: color right, yeah right.

B

So I have a question and um we have half screens on these windows. I don't see it. I.

I

Don't yeah, I didn't note that. Okay, then that's a stipulation yep, because it's standard um also.

B

Are you replacing all of the window trim? Is that what you have? I think we're going to.

I

Need to it's in pretty poor condition in order to get the windows out, I think we can install.

I

Them from the outside in and not have some band. That's around the windows. It's not your average.

B

Band, I don't think it's it's not to be at least two inches or yeah big chunky, molding, two and a.

B

Quarter then, we may have to get that made up. Yes, yeah a lot of times we'll make up band mold anyway,.

I

Just because we don't want it to be out of pine, um so there are certain milling companies place up in.

I

Dover, you mean uh that select, wood does a lot of that and we can do it out of cedar or mahogany.

B

And those are, then, that would be a stipulation also. I would think.

B

If everybody matched the uh band yeah again was that matching the band? Yes matching the window.

F

On the window trim on the window trim, I mean, I think it's probably understood as if that you're.

F

Replacing everything in kind, so it's yes, we can point that out as being yeah, okay, different yeah.

B

Okay, um unless we have some more questions or comments, I'm going to open this up to the.

B

Public, if anybody would like to make comments about this little project on gate street.

B

Okay, I'm not getting any excited hands coming up.

B

Nick, do we have anything online or are we still doing that we are.

C

There's nobody with their hand up nobody with a hand up. Okay,.

B

So I'm going to close this public hearing and I look for a motion.

J

I move that we uh approve this application as presented with two stipulations: the half screen.

J

With stipulations and half screens that the window banjo match reagan, let me use her cheat sheet. Yeah.

D

I'll second, that motion, while he's coming up with the rationale uh it preserves the integrity of the.

J

District and is consistent with the special and defining characters of the surrounding properties.

E

Okay, I would just like to say I was in the basement and noticed the age of the house.

B

And was thinking this might be a home that would benefit from six over six windows, but.

B

Obviously I was in the basement, it was raining and when looking at the house, it's it's something that.

B

In 1870 or 1880, somebody made a victorian out of this this home and there's no getting around it.

B

And so I think these windows are appropriate and I support it. Okay, all those in favor say hi.

B

And again there you have it.

B

B

All righty, then.

B

uh This is a petition of 531 islington street portsmouth llc owner for property located at 531.

B

Islington street dunkin donuts, wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing.

B

Structure, new signage, siding and other exterior improvements, as per plans on file in the planning.

B

Department said property is shown on assessor map 157 as lot 5 lies within the character district.

B

4-L-2 and historic districts who who's here good evening, mr chair members of the commission, my name.

K

Is sharon summers I'm an attorney with donny, hotecker and chandela, and I'm here tonight.

K

Representing the selima family as the applicant to this proposal, um this dunkin donuts, as I'm.

K

Sure you know has been in the current site since I believe the mid 90s. If I'm remembering correctly.

K

And it is now time in conjunction with the normal franchise methodology, to spruce it up.

K

A little bit and do some maintenance and just bring it more up to date, and so that's that's.

K

The intent behind these minor revisions that we're proposing uh with me tonight are the salimas, the.

K

Applicants themselves, as well as eric medeiros from the architectural company, which is aronian.

K

And associates- and I'm going to turn this over at this point to mr maderos, who could walk you.

K

Through the application materials, I know that we- this was scheduled to be heard in april, but.

K

Through some miscommunication, we weren't here so we'd like to present this to you tonight.

K

Answer any questions which you may have and then hopefully get approval tonight.

L

Good evening, members of the board, my name is eric medeiros, I'm with iranian and associates.

L

Architects, um I just wanted to speak to this project a little bit further and some more.

L

Detail about some of the exterior renovations, as they pertain to your view from the street. Did you.

L

Get a little closer excuse me, I'm sorry, yeah is that better microphone um have hearing problems.

L

No worries um so, if I'm not sure who's controlling the screen, but if they don't.

L

Mind panning down to our sheet a 3.1, maybe about halfway through the set for the sake of.

L

This board there's a lot of information in the set as it pertains to the interior renovations.

L

Which aren't obviously not our talking points? A 3.1 it'll be down a bit further.

C

3.1, yes, please.

L

um And then the the character before should be a so you're. Looking at the demolition.

L

Elevations here, which I suppose I could start speaking to these- and we can kind of shift down.

L

um So uh obviously, this is mostly pertains to the exterior renovations. This is a 1300 square.

L

Foot cmu block building with the drive through we're, proposing the removal of the existing.

L

Metal fascia material that you see that shows up dashed on these elevations and we're going.

L

To be replacing that with a new fiber cement board paneling, this is twofold: it's a maintenance thing.

L

As this metal panel isn't at least 20 years old now, I think probably like 24 years old at this.

L

Point so it's ready for that to come down and it's also aligning with the new brand standards.

L

Of using this fiber cement product, the other thing that's being removed in these elevations.

L

Is going to be that existing awning metal framed awning, that's a little bit weathered.

L

As well as the existing signage, so if we, if we move down to our sheet, a 3.1 which.

L

Is a little further down, that'll show the uh the new elevations the new look.

L

That'll show that new fibrous meant board paneling.

L

As it wraps around the parapet, upper parapet of the building it'll show the existing block.

L

To remain and just be painted a fresh color, it's a new gray, color sherwin-williams, gauntlet gray,.

L

You'll see the new drive-through canopy being added in place of the old awning.

L

It's just a new duncan standard sort of look, it has down lighting inside of it um and then there's.

L

New strip lights being added to the existing accent band that runs around the building. That's.

L

A that band is just being painted orange, just a fresh coat. Basically in terms of what's there.

B

Would you go over that again? What sure did you say, strip lighting is.

B

Is that going to be added? That's that's existing, it's being replaced with current.

L

New led lighting just to brighten it up. Oh, so it's all on. If you look at the you're.

L

Probably familiar with this building type, but there's um the band kind of pops out from the.

L

Building and there's a strip light that runs underneath it um so that that's what those.

L

Dashed lines are it's just us replacing those light fixtures with new light fixtures led.

L

And then I can speak to the signage as well. I know that his signage is not being approved by.

L

This board, but just to speak to obviously with the the brand updating their image and dropping the.

L

Donuts out of the name, you see the new signage, um so their signs are being refaced. The one.

L

That's on the front of the building is being refaced and then the other signs are being.

L

Replaced with new channel letter signs, those are internally illuminated and then below we add the.

L

The locality, signage so you'll see the portsmouth runs on duncan kind of logo as well.

B

Could I also ask you: are these signs internally lit? They are.

B

That is something that we have in our book, that.

B

Guidelines, do you know whether you need zoning relief for any of the sign changes? Sharon may.

L

Be able to speak to that more confidently than I can, but I was under the assumption from our code.

L

Research that we and and we do have existing internally illuminated signs. But I was under.

L

The assumption from our code, research that we were able to use internally eliminated signage here.

C

I'm not sure that's the case. Sharon might be able to explain me on that, but certainly if.

J

You're going to remove, what's there and replace it normally, it comes into compliance rather.

C

Than it's vested or grandfathered, uh let me just say that, with regard to the signage, um the sign.

K

um Permit application was submitted to the city today, so that is currently under review. I think.

K

Perhaps um what we should do with regard to this specific issue is to let that review proceed as.

K

Eric has said that the uh the the jurisdiction of this board over signage is is uh is is not there.

K

So but I I do appreciate the concern that's been raised tonight about the illumination of the signs.

K

Which I will look into and probably be having more uh conversations with your uh department so right.

C

And and note that if you do need zoning relief for the signs for any manner, they actually the htc.

C

Has jurisdiction at that point? Yes, so we want to stipulate any of that. Should we get to that point.

C

Yeah, okay, I think the important thing to note here is that when those signs were put up, this building.

G

May not have been inside the historic district, so things have changed since yeah. That makes.

L

Sense yeah, my intent in mentioning signage, was just to clarify the scope of work for that item.

L

But I think I've covered everything. So if there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer.

F

um Nick, can you go forward to the colored renderings further down yeah yeah, sorry, which.

C

Three point: three: three: three next next, just next page after that yeah right here, I'll zoom in here.

F

Can you explain what the white boxes are on top? Yes, so those are the you're referring to on above.

L

The orange portion of the building that accent band- those are new fiber cement board panels.

L

It's a james hardy product, it's about a quarter of an inch thick or so.

L

And they come pre-finished with the white and the gray. Look that you see the gray is kind of on the.

L

Rear part of the building back of house facing so those are just being installed um on the existing.

L

Substrate we're removing the existing atas addus metal panels that are on the building from 20.

L

Plus years ago, so you're just leaving them white they're just point. They will be white on the front.

L

Like the public facing part of the building- and I think that's a that's- a duncan brand standard.

L

uh For their new design guidelines and then the rear of the building they'll be that.

L

Great color that the body of the building is it'll match. Okay, why are they white.

J

Can I ask a question yeah, uh what did you do with this new facelift.

J

To try and relate to our historic district, so from from our perspective, we approached this um based.

L

On all the duncan guidelines for their typical remodel work, um and actually I wasn't aware of.

L

The fact that this was in a historic zone while we worked through the construction drawing set this.

L

Came up a little bit afterwards, so nothing, you correct! uh Is this: just do you just adapt these.

J

Do you do a lot of dunkin donuts work and adapt? Our firm doctors are.

J

Corporate yeah, so what you see reflected here are really the the corporate guidelines to follow for.

L

The typical remodel of a building that looks like this. We have guidelines too yeah understandable. I.

L

Don't know I'm all for it. I just this happens to be my specific position at this point. We.

J

Would we would prefer that the design of this be a little at least nod to the historic district, a.

J

Little bit I mean these are construction drawings. Has this gone out the bid already? um I would let.

L

The owner and honors representative speak to that. I'm not, I believe so. Yes, it has okay, I mean that.

J

I mean yeah like a speed bump in the way. I guess I I don't think of that. Might.

L

Personally, I completely agree and understand these sports, so I understand I just to me.

J

The the architecture doesn't really do anything to suggest it's in the historic district. I.

J

I know it's a lot of it's in kind replacement. It's just I I really wish some gestures would.

J

Be made to make this a little more uh right now, it's kind of a blight on our historic district.

J

And- and I understand where you're at I understand you know this wasn't when this was built, it wasn't.

J

In the historic district, but you know maybe at some point there could be a little more. You know.

J

A design, that's a little more, um you know related to historic portsmouth and that's my comments. Yeah.

F

Yeah, thank you. I don't know if I would call it a blight, but it's it's. I understand that this is the.

F

Dunkin donuts, it's their thing. um We dealt with a similar situation with a.

F

Business downtown: yes, no! No! I'm thinking about market street downtown where yeah another a.

F

Sort of a larger company came in and said this is our branding. We want to put this in and we.

F

Said well, that's sort of the tail wagging the dog because you we we have to. We understand.

F

That this is the their your branding for dunkin donuts, but we're here to make sure that all the.

F

Changes are, are, will fit in and we'll relate and be sympathetic to the historic district.

F

And this isn't necessarily a super historic building, but there could be some nod like some.

F

Natural materials, or something in there that might blend it in that, might give it a little bit of a.

F

Better fit into what we have in our guidelines, so um otherwise this just really.

F

Pops out and has no relationship to any of the historic buildings or.

F

Things around it yeah I I agree. I would definitely argue that it in its current existing condition. It.

L

That's currently what it's doing it's popping out that way, so we would love to see it improved.

B

Before we continue on, then, um is there anybody on this side? That's feeling in general, as we're.

B

Getting over here, if so, then we would postpone this and maybe um have nick, consult or help you.

B

Somehow, with at least showing you our guidelines and saying this is what we require, I did have a.

L

Chance to review those guidelines for the first time this week is there anybody else.

B

Go ahead um just yeah, just as a business owner in the historic district, I find it a little. I.

A

Don't know the fact you just ignore all of our guidelines and just do what you want is not how.

A

We operate um was not my intent, yeah yeah, just that's what clearly you said you know. I mean.

A

Our guidelines were not looked at when these plans are made. So in that respect I see not much respect.

A

um But yeah, I think it would be smart to go back to the drawing board and look at the guidelines.

G

I would just note that the bank building to the right, the people's bank, they did a new trim.

G

That made it it didn't change the whole building, but they put that crown molding up and it just.

B

It moved it moved the building from this era to something that actually had a relationship.

G

To some of the other architecture in the buildings next door, so I think if you go to the neighborhood.

G

Take a look at what they did. Take a look at the buildings that are all around you and you may find.

G

Some way to adapt some of the dunkin donuts guidelines using some of the because there.

G

Are some dunkin donuts that look like they're in old buildings and there might be a way to take.

G

Elements of both and bring something creative, dunkin donuts now, isn't it it's just duncan.

B

But they have dd up here. I don't know, I believe. Overall, it is dunking donuts.

B

Still is done, the logo itself is just duncan um for the brand yeah. I I'm just saying that.

B

I'm thinking that we are already have had five or six opinions, which definitely puts us in the.

B

Negative, if we were to take a vote, um we would like you to come back. We would like to work with.

B

You we certainly don't want to to be negative, but you know we feel that this building doesn't meet.

B

Our guidelines, and so we would like, I think, what we're going to do just to make it better for you.

B

Is to postpone this and continue to continue it until next month or mr chair. Can I and I just.

K

Say a couple of words here, I think, on behalf of my clients. First of all, they have been um good.

K

Cooperative members of the community for decades now- and I and I do take some exception to some of.

K

The tone of the comments that I'm hearing tonight- okay- um they have this matter- came to their.

K

Attention that they even needed to be here uh as part of their submission of the building permit.

K

Application in accordance with the the normal process, they were told that they needed to come.

K

Here, um which I think took them, perhaps a bit by surprise, but they did submit the application.

K

And we are here tonight we certainly appreciate the comments that we are hearing and we'll be.

K

Happy to work with nick to try to come up with some, as I think it was described, a nod towards.

K

The fact that it is now in the historic district, or as it wasn't when this was first created.

K

But to suggest that we are somehow blatantly ignoring the guidelines, I think is a bit misplaced.

K

Excuse me, but I I don't think that we suggested okay. Okay, um if we did we apologize, we uh need to.

B

Continue this and that's fine and we and we will do that and he will do your comments. Thank you.

B

All right, thank you. We need a vote on this continuation. I would also say you don't need to.

B

Have as much detail on the inside of the building, just for your application for your application.

B

We're primarily concerned with the outside. Thank you vote for continuing, so.

F

Yeah, um okay, uh all those in favor aye and against okay, so we have a continuance. Thank you. Thank you.

C

Reach out to me, tomorrow and the next day and we'll set up an appointment: okay, okay,.

D

Mr chairman, having refreshed the my uh view of this thing, this is the application that.

D

I'm recusing myself from thank you very much, certainly and uh karen. Yes, all right.

B

um So this is the petition of the nurbone family, revocable trust owner for property located at 189.

B

Gate street, wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure.

B

Construct new addition to an existing garage as per plans on file in the planning department.

B

Said property is shown on assessor map 103 slot 6 lies within the general residence b.

B

And historic district who's here to present this good evening, ann whitney here again.

I

Here again, um I'm just before I start. I've got um some letters of support. I just made one copy and.

I

They're kind of all, bundled together, you might have already had them in your packet, um but.

B

Probably best to give them to nick, you can just pass them around.

I

So what we're proposing here is to take the existing garage and um put a ten ten and a half.

I

By fourteen and a half foot addition, one story on the back on the back of the garage and just.

I

Looking at the site plan here, um there's a little spot on the side there, where you know I haven't.

I

We haven't totally got the sizing of the heat pump, but um that would be the location of the heat pump.

F

And what is the original submission? Is this like had gone through zoning.

F

Or something first yeah, we went through zoning and then we had to get a conditional use permit.

I

For the garden cottage and then originally that original submission we actually started.

I

With a bigger edition with a deck, and then we got some pushback from the neighbors, so we.

I

Shifted the building over, I had it centered and I shifted it over and reduced the size and.

I

Got rid of the deck? Okay! That's great! I was just concentrating, so this is the same plan. I did for.

I

The conditional use permit the site plan. I didn't change that thanks. um You go to the second page.

I

Got some uh photo of you know existing conditions, it's a pretty blank wall. Now there it's an old.

I

Structure uh when I did the renovation back in 98, when we added on to the original house.

I

And at the time we took the roof off the old garage and made it more match. The.

I

Existing house picked the pitch up and, uh and we did that it's a very old stone foundation.

I

On this so going through the drawings that the on the front elevation, you know we're getting.

I

Rid of the garage doors, putting a single door and a couple of small awning windows.

I

One in the attic, which is just going to be storage and a small bathroom window on that side,.

I

You know the the existing garage has got lace, corners.

I

So there's no real trim, we're going to just be matching so that um left side elevation.

I

um We're going to be building this just on posts, I have any of the.

I

Plumbing and stuff that's going to be happening in the existing garage, so the skirting that you can.

I

See under their existing deck, we're just going to be matching that um on the addition, as it sticks.

I

Out at 10 and a half feet, and I'm just going to use that screening to get around the heat pump.

I

There's a possibility that we can put the heat pump underneath underneath the space. But if we.

I

Can't then we'd put it there, so I just wanted to have it shown and then the rear elevation.

I

um I reduced the pitch just to keep the height down we're, trying to lessen the impact on the.

I

The budding neighbor um and I'm showing uh three double hungs uh two two over twos and then sort of.

I

A center window- that's three over one, and the pane size is very close to the two over two pane size.

I

I just thought it doing a triple and making that a little bigger kind of broke up that elevation.

I

um And again, you'll see the skirting there'll, probably be an access point on that back side.

I

Where we have the most headroom to get into the uh underneath a couple doors out of the.

I

Same material as the as the vertical board, skirting that saw around the existing deck.

I

We're guttering! Actually, if you go to the next page,.

I

uh That backside uh the facing the butter or you know.

I

Part of the conditional use permit. You can't have any glazing on that side, so we're basically.

I

Not having any windows there's just a single skylight on on the roof there to let a little.

I

Light in from that side and we're guttering and tying that in that was one of the stipulations of.

I

The planing board to right now the water comes off that roof onto the abutting property and so we're.

I

Trying we're going to be getting that guttered in a way and kind of dry weld on an urban property.

I

And again, there's the front elevation as it exists.

I

Again, I'm going to be using the elevate windows for this for this edition for replacing and.

I

You know any new windows on the uh on the garage and the addition.

I

Are there any questions.

B

Does anyone have any comments or questions for ann.

A

Yes, you said just on the the three windows you're just doing the three over one in the middle. Just.

A

To break up the yeah, and it also it'll give um you know: it'll give that that living space a.

I

Little bit bigger opening to look out of, and I had done it as just three somewhat larger.

I

You know double hung windows, but I think I don't know. I feel like this kind of breaks up.

I

The look of that, instead of just repeating yeah, I'm fine with it.

I

And actually, on that um left side I do have a couple other skylights one in the.

I

That will go into the attic to let some light in there and another one.

I

To let some more light into the addition and that casement on we need an egress window.

I

And that is going to look like same size as the double hung and we'll just be. Acting as a.

I

Casement to meet our egress requirements and it's on the side facing the existing house.

E

Anyone else yes and I- and I think this is appropriate and and nicely sized the only.

G

Aesthetic concern I have is looking at the view from point of graves.

G

With the large amount of skirting underneath the deck of the original house, and then now.

G

Not an equal amount, but another large amount of skirting the skirting is very.

G

Plain and very, very vertical: do you have any concerns about having that much up and down going.

G

They're on slightly different planes, but yeah and the skirting will be lower. Obviously, because.

I

I've got a the siding ends at kind of the slab level and then I'm going to be putting a floor.

I

System so it's going to be probably about a foot lower and so that the height of the skirting.

I

Won't be as tall there, but I felt like that was a better approach than trying to put a foundation.

I

In there and then be looking at stone, you know or concrete, or um I agree with that. I just wonder if.

G

You think, would you want it painted like a dark color or I just wanted. You considered some kind.

G

Of aesthetic difference, modest difference between them, I I think it's mainly the scale of it and the.

I

You know the size of it, it's much. It's a full. You know you have full headroom under that existing.

I

Deck- and this is going to be- maybe you know four and a half to five feet at the most okay. Thank you.

I

At that end, possibly five feet where you enter, but because of the floor system, drops it down.

I

Anyone else any concerns.

B

Okay, so uh I'm going to open this up to the public and see if there's.

B

Any comments from the public about this, this little cottage.

C

If there's anybody online just raise your hand I'll, let you in.

B

Okay, nothing nope, okay! So I'm going to close this public hearing and looking for a motion.

F

I'll move that we approve this application as presented, we don't have any stipulations. Another.

C

One half screens um are there half screens? Yes, oh yeah, okay, okay. She always forgets.

J

F

um This uh has conservation, enhancement of property values.

F

um And has compatibility of design with the surrounding properties.

B

All right, um so all those in favor say aye aye against all right. You have your motion.

B

For yet again, another cute little cottage.

B

And whitney cute, this is daniel street- is that that one.

B

This chair, all right- this is new business karen who fired. I have to re-cues on this one.

B

Okay, all right david's, back anyways, um so new business public hearings number one.

B

Is requested by 85 daniel street llc owner for property located at 85 daniel street, wherein.

B

Permission is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure, remove and replace.

B

Rear addition remove and replace roof with new dormers and renovations to an existing structure.

B

Replace windows, siding trim and front stoop as per plans on file in the planning department.

B

Said property is shown on assessor map 107 as lot 8 and lies within the character district 4.

B

In historic districts who here is presenting this uh good evening, I'm mark giannini from.

M

The country architecture all right welcome here with richard garden from our office.

M

And as well as the applicant andy rudder and the builder donald durkin,.

M

Starting off is a is a work session, so I don't know if you guys want us to present.

M

From here and go through the changes or have you made any changes since the last? None.

M

No, we may we did make changes based on that comments and feedback. We heard last time.

M

When we heard last month so we're happy to run through those and run through the packet.

M

Briefly and highlight the changes we also have, the model has been updated, the city model's been.

M

Updated to include the massing of the the building. Okay, all right go ahead. All right.

M

Cover page doesn't hasn't, really changed, so we will skip over that as well. As you know, a1 a2 and.

M

A3 are all contextual photos that we reviewed at the last last meeting before we get too far into.

B

It nick does this make sense to you. Should we yeah, I think we should present these then I'll.

C

Go fish out the model? Okay, so you can see it, but um as far as a work session, public hearing goes.

B

They haven't made any changes from the work, but we didn't make changes. Sorry, I was being successful.

E

B

Keep it going then.

M

Everything again for the public hearing, I just want you to know.

B

I I'll hit all the high points for the public hearing.

M

uh A4, what is the sanborn maps from 1949, as we discussed previously, which highlighted.

M

You know that there was, in addition, there is an addition previously was in addition on the back.

M

Of the building uh with a similar area footprint that we were proposing- and it also was a housed.

M

Auto automobiles similar function to what we are proposing for the ground floor of the rear edition.

M

Moving on to a5.

M

This is the existing footprint and floor plan of the building.

M

uh It's really just showing that we're reconfiguring the interior.

M

As well as tearing down the the small 16 by 6 edition in the rear, to add the add, the new edition.

M

On a6, this is the existing again along with proposed demolition, as we discussed last month,.

M

The north elevation we've got minimal changes as far as the existing massing and openings.

M

We'll go into some more detail on some of the changes that we've made since the previous. When.

M

We get to the new conditions, but again really just to show you while we're replacing windows.

M

But keeping materials siding trim in place and repairing and replacing kind.

M

The side elevation has this lovely asphalt, siding at the moment. Brick asphalt.

M

As well as a number of openings that have previously been covered over.

M

With plywood and more asphalt, e7 again similar to the side elevation, the south.

M

Elevation the rear again, this has currently has clapboard siding that we'll be again re-reusing.

M

Repairing and kind, as well as the addition I just mentioned, that we're tearing down the back.

M

And then the west elevation is similar to the east, with the asphalt siding, different.

M

Various windows that have been covered over and windows that we'll be removing and replacing and.

M

Relocating you get the a8, you can see the uh the new configuration of the floor plans.

M

We're looking at two units, uh two residential units, one on each side.

M

And then, on the ground floor, the unit on the right uh is going to be either a leaseable office space.

M

Or a live work unit for that the tenant on that side of the building, and then we have a 26 by 20.

M

Approximately a rear edition, it has a two car garage one for each unit on the ground floor.

M

On the second floor, we've got a bedroom on each side with a covered porch and then the deck area.

M

On the third floor, which will be accessed by the third floor, master bedrooms, one of the things we.

M

Changed here based on feedback, was taking out the the fin that was kind of a privacy divider between.

M

Each side of the deck and we basically when we get to the proposed elevations you'll, see.

M

We've removed that all together and just left a planter uh that would be a kind of the top.

M

Of the roof height, so there's really no no visible barrier that anyone would see outside the building.

M

um So on ace a9 here you can actually see that an elevated east elevation on two there's. You know.

M

There's no fin anymore, that's been removed, so we just have the hipped roof around that as well as.

M

The 12 inch high railing that will go around to get your guard height and again so the the.

M

Division between the two tenants uh our occupants on the third floor, there would just be a planter.

M

That's at that same height, so nothing visible on the north elevation again. Keeping many of these.

M

Existing materials detail and trim. One of the couple of the comments we received at last.

M

Month's meeting regarding the windows where we were proposing replacing them with marvin.

M

We've now, and also we got comments about trying to restore them um at this time. We're looking.

M

At or we're proposing replacing those with green mountain windows, so they'd still be replaced. They.

M

Provide energy efficiency as well as sound deadening that the the owner is looking for.

M

To the street, but you know we'd you'd be getting a wood window, a solid wood window as a replacement.

M

That's fairly historically accurate and we've used successfully in many projects in the htc.

M

East elevation again we've reduced windows from what's existing the h g windows there on the first.

M

And second floor: we've got access to the garage and to the units from the rear that show up with.

M

A slight covered opening and then you can see the railing for the covered porch. On the second floor.

M

The dormer was another comet that we received the size of the dormer.

M

And actually I'll get into that in a moment when we have a better view on some of the perspectives.

M

All right, nick's already there so on a11 you'll, see.

B

It's a lot of noise, I'm hitting that one with the paper, so I will try not to.

M

Yeah just be careful nick's already ahead of me here so on a11 we've got.

M

uh The renderings of perspectives of the existing and the proposed.

M

uh One of the comments we received was, if you know we could look at moving the face to the front.

M

The street face of the dormer back, you know if it was a foot or a few feet, we did look at various.

M

Options we kind of felt that it didn't really change the you know the view or perspective.

M

Of of the building and the dormer, so right now it's placed you know where we had showed it to.

M

You last month- and you know this perspective on the right here- is standing in front of city hall.

M

So at you know, I've eye height, so, as you can see, you know, there's minimal visibility of the new.

M

You know of the proposed dormer when we get into the city model. We can look at some different views.

M

I mean obviously when you're standing on the left side of daniel street closest to.

M

The building you know there won't ever be really visibility of it uh coming from either direction.

M

When you're coming from mark from the square uh across, you know from the same side of the street,.

M

um The dormers on the west side of the building are primarily blocked from the.

M

By the adjacent building, which is taller and then again, if you're further down the street towards.

M

Chapel street intersection and stuff again, it's even less visible than what we're showing here.

M

In this perspective, we can look more at that when we get to the model.

M

On a12, you know this is standing basically right across the street, so you can see.

M

You know, that's probably the most visible part of the dormer there.

M

From from the street view and pastor byers,.

M

Let's see a13 and a14 would be similar renderings from what we had last time. Different views.

M

The 15 is a bird's eye view of the addition in the rear.

M

Again, you can see where the the fin on the third floor decks have been, has been removed.

M

And then we get to a16. We have details that we've provided since the last meeting. To give you a.

M

Better idea of profiles of roof, the addition roofs, the proposed dormer kind of eaves, as well as the.

M

Rear entry, overhangs and also the two chimneys that were proposing.

M

Adding to the the front of the building, there would be one one for above each unit. That would be.

M

In a similar location to what we found was, you know originally there in the building when it had.

M

Two chimneys along the street side.

F

Can I ask, what's the material of the actual chimney beneath the brick veneer, it would.

M

Be wood framing would be the intent, and then it would be a thin brick.

F

Yeah with like the pvc piping underneath or uh you mean for the flu itself, yeah the flu.

M

Would be aligned metal fluid because it would just be for a gas fireplace.

M

And the pages after that are similar to what we've proposed last month, except for the.

M

Addition of the green mountain windows again for the daniel street side of the building.

M

And I think, beyond that, these are just additional cut sheets of products.

M

Light fixtures railings that we've and that we had at the last meeting.

J

It was the break in the dormer the same this last time. Yes, yes, okay. I didn't notice that before yeah.

M

Breaking the door to help kind of minimize the overall mass of it.

D

You have uh three shallow roofs on the front of the building. One of the front.

D

Entry and then one on each of the two bays: uh what's the roofing material on those.

N

They're, currently, some sort of rubber they're, currently some sort of rubber will that remain.

L

Yes, well it'll probably get repaired and kind that my question, I guess was: why is there.

D

Sometimes, there's an unfriendly uh competition between the edging materials for rubber roofing.

D

And the kind of woodwork that was put on when they were tin right, I don't know off the top of my head.

M

I mean right now, there's nothing, that's really protruding over the edge and you know covering.

M

Any of the existing moldings that were it could be because I'm old, but there was a time when forever.

D

Roofing first started showing up that it showed kind of at scales like this. It showed really.

D

Insensitivity to the architecture, I assume that you won't be no, we can definitely look at that. You.

M

Know and make sure if, when it's replaced, that's it's not uh infringing on the design or trim.

D

In as much as your specifications say uh say that you're, restoring or repairing much of the.

D

Trim on the front facade of the building, yep.

E

B

Any other work session type related opinions here things you want to discuss.

G

The only thing I would add is I I would support the planter being taller if you want it up towards.

G

The level of the railing yeah, I mean, I think, at this time um you know we didn't want anything.

M

Too obtrusive, but you know from the street and uh you know, being able to put plants in the planter.

M

You know they could provide enough screening. At least that was the intense you know.

E

Sorry I'll get it back all right I mean you could also plug in some sort of uh 18 inch or.

B

Two feet: high metal, fencing that they have that people put around the fronts of their houses.

B

It just basically plugs into the ground. You know something like that. Would work also.

B

So uh I'm going to close this um work session because normally we ask if anybody in the.

B

Public would uh like to speak on this work session, so I'm going to ask that.

B

Okay check online yeah. You can check just go into public hearing.

C

Okay, no hands are up okay, so uh I don't have to read this whole thing again. Do I.

B

You ready to open this huh yeah yeah. I don't think so! No and um at this time I would like to.

B

Say that we did receive a letter from a mr savelle, which is for a different project.

B

Different project, of course, he's in a butter though, so he is all right having a little.

B

Trouble but now just hit the highlights and um let's have a public hearing all right.

M

Good evening, marc jones, from kennedy architecture here on 85 daniel street.

M

uh Where we've proposed an um a renovation to existing structure with adding a dormers to the.

M

The existing third floor, dormers on either side of east and west side, elevations of the building.

M

As well as a 26 by 20 rear edition, which will house a two-car garage on the ground,.

M

Floor as well as bedrooms and a covered porch on the second floor and then an open deck for.

M

Accessible on the third floor by each of the master bedrooms.

M

We're replacing and repairing siding and trim on the daniel street side of the of the building.

M

While replacing those windows with green mountain windows, we've proposed replacing the remainder.

M

Of the windows and new openings with marvin windows on the east and west and south elevations.

M

And we're happy to answer any other questions. uh Meanwhile, we're looking at the 3d look here.

B

Nick is, I haven't done this for a while he's giving us.

E

I guess one, the official bird's eye tour, one quick stipulation that we.

F

Try to hit for each one is that the screens will be half screens. Yes, that is in the in the window.

N

It should say half screens at all windows, great.

O

Yeah, it's note 5 on the window, notes on sheet a 17. awesome. Thank you.

E

Is that a is that back alley or through street? No there's, not a threesome, that's a dead end. I.

E

Was trying to figure out what it was? Oh no! No! It's mostly just just the 10. Our residents in.

M

That area have access to it um and then and just another little picky question is uh with the.

F

Green mountain windows, the wood windows that are on the front, those will be field painted.

M

Yes, yes, and same with the um garage doors in the back, so they won't have their shiny finish.

E

I don't know if they'll, if you're planning to feel paint those or.

M

It is a fight, it is a fiberglass door.

E

F

The overhead garage doors yeah, I mean we were looking at a factory finish, but.

M

Yeah, um I guess yeah as long as I couldn't. I can't zoom in enough like the photo, isn't.

F

Isn't good enough if it doesn't have like a faux wood grain to it, then it's fine like if it's flat.

F

That's okay! I don't believe it has a wood grain to it great. Thank you.

B

Well, the worst case scenario is that he brings that to uh administrative approval.

B

The garage door is neck yeah. Okay, maybe that'd be a thing to add to any motion.

D

Just to make sure that there's no faux grain, can you give me that well, I was playing with.

C

That the stipulation they say it's not, but it's put it on stipulations garage doors, be brought.

B

In for approval, well, they don't need to be brought in just that they cannot be a full.

B

Why not look at it? Okay,.

B

Nick you're on the wrong side of the street: no I'm not.

D

He's just giving us the long view trying to trying to write.

E

Yeah, what's going on here, oh nick, while you have that open, can you turn off the old building.

N

Oh, okay, click click, the yeah, the eye right below everything's. In the way here.

C

um What mr adams was saying, I think, makes a lot of sense that if you do indeed do those.

B

Little low-pitched roofs over that the drip edge be an appropriate conventional drip edge and.

B

And none of this, uh the rubber goes over the edge three inches and all this kind of stuff makes.

C

What do you want to see just standing in the.

G

Old post office parking lot looking up at the roof. Okay,.

E

C

Hold I'm gonna jump under.

D

The manhole cover view um poor nick is just off the airplane eight o'clock this morning.

B

From california.

C

All right we'll keep going I'll get okay,.

B

Anybody else have any comments or questions. We could just get this wrapped up. Yeah well, nick.

B

Is playing nick he's lost? Where are you now? I'm joined no. The button you're going in the street.

D

The baxter creamery on the right I mean you know, while nick's trying to find this stuff.

A

I mean my only concern would be the dormer on the side that you can see.

A

Here I mean that that's the only thing I think everything else you guys have done.

A

Stays in line with the historic character, like you said, your.

A

That space in the back that addition, that was there before same use but yeah, I see.

A

No other issues that I'm concerned with.

B

Okay, so is there anybody in the public that would like to speak um about this project.

B

I got to go back very quiet evening as far as the public go.

B

Don't push it nick's too busy to check online. I got a check so yeah wow you're on your neck. Nobody.

B

Spoke at the uh work session either all right there's no hands up. Okay. I can at least do that.

B

All right: well, I'm going to close this public hearing. Then, mr chairman, I'd like to move to.

D

Approve this application um with uh one I think, two stipulations, one for half screens, although.

D

Here it's covered and the other for the textural issues of the.

D

Garage doors, which would be on administrative approval, very good, very simple, for you.

D

I think this building is, uh it contributes to the economy of the neighborhood and the architectural.

D

Con continuum of daniel street I'd like to personally comment that, while the dormers on.

D

The roof are a new addition. I don't believe that they're over done and I'm I'm a little.

D

Bit transactional when it comes to these things, I think we're buying an awful lot of historic.

D

Building being preserved on our neighborhood for a little bit of disruption on the roof, I think it's.

D

A trade-off this that I feel comfortable doing and I want to applaud the applicants for their.

D

Constraint in keeping inside of the footprint and making a commitment to preserve so much of the.

D

Building agreed all right, um I would just caution you when doing the roof. God knows we have had.

B

Some disasters so, mr contractor, please be careful, removing that roof and putting in new rafters.

B

With everything, maybe some of the rafters can be saved so that the building doesn't spread.

B

Because down there on court street just didn't happen. One thing led to another and.

B

We lost it, we've lost it, yeah so uh no win. I guess some. I guess I'm looking for a vote. Yeah.

B

All those in favor say aye aye, those are against. Okay, you have your approval. um Thank you. Thank you.

K

E

E

We only have number two. We are on number two. Oh this one will be. We were flying through this stuff.

B

Yeah we were petition of david jay and vasilia tully owners for property located at 166. Newcastle.

B

Avenue wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing structure.

B

Add one new window to an existing garage second floor as per plans on file in the planning.

B

Department said property is shown on assessor map 101 as lot 24 lies within the single residence b.

B

And historic districts is anyone here to present this plan all right, if they're not here, I'm.

C

Okay, I'm guessing it might be, because this is such a minor application.

C

It's one window to match the existing windows on the main house- oh they're, here virtually so aha.

C

Good, so let me just scroll down I'll I'll, get you billy uh one. Second,.

C

Billy, can you speak? I think we can hear you now.

C

Yes, billy nope hashtag on mute. Okay, can you hear me now nick yep, we can hear you go ahead. Okay,.

E

Both my husband and I are here just introduce yourself. We just wanted to add a single window.

E

The same kind of window, that's on the of that on the garage structure now and just put it on the.

E

I don't know what, if you're facing the garage, it would be on the right hand, side wall, it's.

E

A two-story facility, so the room, the the window, would be uh in the room. That's above the garage.

E

And it would allow us to allow more light into the room. What look at the screen here existing.

P

That's what it looks like now and that's with with the same kind of window. That's already.

E

On that's existing there on the other side, okay, okay, so um existing the trim would match existing.

B

And you would have a historic window sill, underneath this new window yeah, it would be.

E

The same, I have a picture nick there's a picture of the windows that are on the okay um on the.

C

House on the house on the other side, there's a dormer right here like that same kind of window.

E

That's a double window. We would only put in one yeah and billy you're the property owner.

C

Correct yes, okay, me and my husband he's here too, got it: okay, just for the minutes.

B

Okay, very good- uh this is very simple. Does anybody have any questions for the homeowners.

B

Okay, is there anybody in the public that would like to speak about this project.

B

And nick is looking online, I don't see any so I'm going to close this public hearing.

B

And look for a motion.

J

Motion to approve, as presented second, you have screens, says the stipulation yeah. Yes, uh it is.

J

It is uh preserves the integrity of the district and is consistent with the special.

J

uh Defining characters of the uh historic district very well said: okay, all those in favor say: aye aye,.

B

Against okay, you have your motion with a stipulation for a half screen in that window.

C

Yeah, I muted her so okay. Thank you. Thank you.

B

Petition of 404 islington street owner for property located at 404 is islington.

B

Street wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing structure.

B

Removal and infill of a door installation of mechanical equipment.

B

And installation of an ada compliant ramp as per plans on file in the planning department.

B

Property is shown on recessive map 145 as lot 33 and lies within the character district 4-l-2.

B

And historic districts who's here to present this rob good evening, my name is rob harbison.

O

From market square architects- nice to see you all- I am here on behalf of our.

O

Client, who is proposing a mostly interior renovation of the martin hill inn, essentially.

O

The innkeeper suite is going away and they are reconfiguring that space into two rentable.

O

Units and then just really updating interior finishes along with that, we do trigger some code.

O

Requirements for accessibility, which brings about the ramp and they're, also trying to implement some.

O

Air conditioning to some of the units and that's the primary scope of what we're looking at.

O

So I will point out on the the first sheet, where you see that locus plan on the left.

O

The property is actually made up of multiple structures. There's the original uh structure.

O

Off of islington street that received an addition at some point in time and then there's a second.

O

Building that wraps around that building on the corner, so that's all part of the same.

O

Now parcel go ahead to page two, you can see uh images of the martin hill inn from islington.

O

Street there are no um exterior changes really proposed on the uh the structure of the building.

O

Itself or the exterior siding or appearance at this point, it's again mostly interior renovations.

O

Moving along to sheet three there's some images and they're tagged with where they are taken from.

O

So the one other item that's related to configuration is reconfiguration of the.

O

Interior space is right now in that the back area of the of the first floor, there's an exterior door.

O

That's an exit from an existing interior staircase, the existing staircase is being removed, and so.

O

That door no longer has a reason for being, and so at that location we are simply looking to remove.

O

The exterior door and patch and match with the existing siding material, which will be repainted.

O

To match the exterior deck that you see there with the stairs leading up we're actually looking at.

O

Keeping because it sort of works in connection with the deck, that's on the adjacent building.

O

And the walkway that runs alongside the building on the back. And then, if you look at view j, which.

O

Is taken from the front the islington side on the left hand, side of the building that gives you a.

O

View down the side and the reason I bring that up is you'll, see a privacy fence on the side of that.

O

Building to the to the uh neighboring building on the corner, and that's also where they're sort of.

O

That's where their trash recycling, those kinds of things go, and I bring that up because, as we go to.

O

Sheet four rob before you go any further, so I was looking at jay and thinking that was the door that.

B

You're, removing, where is the? Where is this door, the door that we're moving is at uh right? Where.

O

It says view h at the zoo top of the the top of the page there's an existing door. Oh that runs out.

O

To those deck landings on the back that connect to the deck at the adjacent building, if you look.

G

At view f in the picture, you can see a tree in the middle yeah, the doors just to the left of.

G

That hidden by the okay bulge, still can't see the door. But it's all very tight spaces in there and.

O

There's that bay edition that somebody did at one point that kind of screens it um 1990s yeah and so.

O

But the interior stair that currently runs up, but it's all within the same unit, is going away and so.

B

I'm assuming it's not a historic door or no, no, no! It was added much later. All right, so keep it going.

O

um So and the reason I brought up view j is because it's that side of the building, where.

O

um The mechanical units are being proposed uh which would be mounted to the side of the building.

O

So they're on the side where we have that privacy fence to the neighbor and where there's that trash.

O

Recycling and then one of them is going back adjacent to where that existing door is being.

O

Removed where it will be partially screened by that existing deck railing, so it's those three.

O

Locations on the left side of the building on the right side of the building, we're basically.

O

Just trying to create some accessible units on the first floor, which do not exist today and as.

O

Part of that it would be really nice to be able to get into the first floor, so we're proposing a.

O

Composite decking material for the surface, we're only going up about 18 inches to the first floor.

O

And because of that, we do not need a full guard rail, and so our thought was to just provide a.

O

Simple metal handrail, which would suffice for the railing and be the least visually obtrusive.

O

Thing when you're in a three-dimensional background with walkway and yard beyond dark.

O

Metal railing tends to go away visually, so that was the thought, process and approach with that.

O

And the last sheet is just the the details of the the railing in terms of size and extensions.

O

And with that, I will open it up to questions.

B

We have questions comments. Yes, so the ramp is wide enough for a wheelchair. Yes,.

G

um Are you removing the central staircase in the main building, because no and how.

G

Are you going to get a wheelchair in that space? The wheelchair would not.

O

um Would not go up to the second floor, obviously, so we're only we're only.

O

Without getting too far into accessibility code, there's different thresholds and triggers.

O

That you hit so, and they sort of have a couple shopping lists so item. One is.

O

For a renovation of that meets this criteria, no more than 20 of your project budget needs.

O

To go towards accessibility, so that's sort of your threshold of.

O

The things you should look to improve, after that, only a percentage of the units would be.

O

Required to be accessible even if this was built new and then when we go down from that, there's a.

O

Priority list of the first thing you want to provide is access to primary function, spaces.

O

And then it's restrooms and then you go down the list. So our goal here is really to create.

O

At least one accessible room on that first floor and we would renovate the bathroom as part of that.

O

So there's enough room to get into the door and maneuver to that front room on the left.

O

With accessible clearances without without having to change anything other than the bathroom and.

O

Make at least one of the units accessible that doesn't exist. Thank you. um This is.

B

Really, not our purview and that's you know for you to have planning um how high is that privacy fence.

B

Is that obscure the um it varies a little bit, but it's at least five. It's at least five feet high on.

O

The left there, you can see it um on sheet two, um you can see it from islington street and so yeah.

O

The gate's the same height as the fence yeah, so is everyone happy with that? As far as screening goes.

E

I am, I don't think it needs to be screened within a screen, but.

A

No yeah he has a pretty tight space behind there. Yeah and garbage cans. Also yep, okay, just asking.

B

Any other questions or comments and sorry the ramp, starts at the corner of the building.

G

It goes yes, and that really just has to do with the ramp comes out one linear foot for every.

O

Vertical inch we have to go up, so it's really determined by the location of the first floor.

O

Relative to grade okay- and your notes say that you have to take out the curving. The existing.

G

um Brick and curving: yes,.

O

Yeah we'll have to do that to get the structure to support the ramp in place. I guess the the.

G

Only concern I have is is the metal railing, given that this entire structure is wood and traditional.

O

Talked about that quite a bit, and I guess we would be open to substituting that for.

O

A painted azac railing system which we've used in the htc before and then it would have a separate.

O

One and a half inch diameter handrail with inside of that. I guess our thought process and we talked.

O

About this internally, quite a bit is that when we do that, it's going to be a full residential guard.

O

Rail with traditional balusters, and so it's all of a sudden, it becomes visually quite a.

O

Bit especially relative to what it's screening on the existing building in this case, because it's.

O

Shallow enough to not require the guard rail, all we really need is the 36 inch.

O

Off the off the ramp handrail and a four inch rail at the bottom to keep a wheel or a walker.

O

From going off the edge, and so in our view, having that be black in a three-dimensional space where.

O

You have a backdrop of yard, walkway, etcetera. It really visually minimizes that relative.

O

To the existing building, but we would be open to substituting it for more traditional railing if.

O

If people feel strongly that way, I guess I'm just torn between the sort of industrial look.

G

Against that it's the same conversation we had and for code, it does need to be one and.

O

A half inch diameter rail. So it's it's going to be a round metal rail.

B

Has anyone else um got any problems with this rail system you're sure it doesn't need any.

B

More horizontal pieces, though, because I built these types of railings before not within 30.

O

Inches of grade, okay, no guard required they. They assume that if johnny tumbles, 18 inches.

O

He's okay, 30 inches is the cut off 30 inches 30 inches above grade. Then you need a guardrail.

B

Okay, any other. Yes, I would just say: maybe you can just put some filigree on it and make it.

J

Look a little more traditional, but I would not go like you said. I think you're handling.

J

The rail perfectly well, the less less is more that's where we ended up yeah. Maybe you could.

J

Just I don't know just something to a couple: little brackets, where the verticals meet the.

J

Where's, I don't know, I don't know if that fight yeah it does you get into.

O

Code trouble there, so you'd have to do something that held it off. Of the never mind the rail.

E

Anyone else that's fine, okay is anyone else.

B

I mean: does uh anybody in the public uh have any comments on this project.

C

No, there were no hands up all right, good, I'm gonna close the public hearing and look for a motion.

F

I'll move that we approve this application as presented, I don't think we have any stipulations.

C

uh I didn't, but did I miss any? No, I don't think so I'll stick in that.

F

This has conservation and enhancement of property, values and.

F

Compatibility of innovative technologies with surrounding properties, I mean really.

F

The biggest impact on from this project is the addition of the ramp, which I think is pretty.

F

Minimally done in this situation, so it's fairly well done.

B

And I think in a historic district, there is um actually the ramp. So there's quite a bit of leeway.

B

In on ramps, um okay, all those in favor of this project say aye hi and those that are against.

B

So you have your approval. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

B

How's everyone doing what oh it's only five past eight moving right along two more.

B

Petition of the gideon walker house trust james h, soames jr, trustee owner for property located.

B

At 154 maplewood avenue, wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to an.

B

Existing structure, replacement of nine windows as per plans on file in the planning department.

B

Said property is shown on recessive map 124 as lot 7 and lies within character. District 4-l-1.

B

In historic districts who here is presenting this, we have dennis lafaucci uh online dennis. Can you.

C

Hear us, yes, I can thank you dennis. Who are you? uh My name is so I'm dennis the fosse, I'm the camera.

A

Here, speaking to the mic, dennis you're fading there you're fading, oh okay, uh I can yell into it.

N

um Okay, so I'm a design consultant river duel by anderson, um my customer, jim soames, at 154.

A

Maplewood uh he has nine existing awning windows going around the.

D

Perimeter of the second floor of the home, and we are replacing them, as is.

C

Nine awning windows to be replaced, as is sorry you're a little bit hard to hear dennis, but.

C

You're replacing nine awning windows, yeah, there's nine awning windows going around.

N

The second floor of the home, can you see the screen right now, yep yep, so these are right here.

N

Yes yep so the previous page, there's five there and then there's four more going around the front.

C

What is that so yeah question is on this previous page? What's this page dennis that that's on the.

C

Screen right now, what's this all about some other building? That's that's! That's not the same house.

C

All right we'll pretend that it's not there: okay yeah, so it weird right there there's there's four.

A

Other windows uh on the front of that home that look identical to the pictures you have.

M

On the back of the home, there got it, that's on you, oh there, it is there. They are right. There.

C

What's wrong with the windows? What's going on good question,.

N

He is an architect and he wants our windows but yeah. So we just replacing.

M

The windows as the customer requested this looks like a replacement kind.

B

It really does yeah what what type of windows are there now? Are they wooden windows or are they.

B

um Apparently, wooden windows say that again, they're they're, currently wooden windows.

F

They are oh yeah, yes, yeah they're, probably getting bad on the mill pond. It's tough.

C

And keep in mind, even if it was a replacement in kind, you can only replace one window in kind.

C

Right as an exemption, because what if they were all vinyl windows put in the 1970s, we wouldn't.

C

Want them vinyl windows, again, necessarily yeah. That's why it's done that way: okay, limited to.

C

One door, one window: okay, so we are looking at this and um does anybody have any questions or comments.

B

Anything about this project will there be any changes to the exterior siding on the building.

N

No, we should be replacing everything. As you see it now,.

B

And because these are awnings, the screen is on the inside correct, okay,.

B

Okay, I don't see any other heartburn showing up okay. Anybody in the public like to comment.

C

Anybody else online, I, like it all right.

B

All righty, you don't see anybody nope, so looking for a motion motion to approve, as provided second.

B

A few comments here uh it is, uh I was just defining the factor that it preserves the.

J

Integrity of the district and is consistent with the special and defining characters.

J

Of of the district okay, um so all those in favor, please say aye aye,.

B

Against all right, you have your approval yeah, I shut them off voice in the sky.

J

Yeah, it seems all I have to just say is I'm looking for a motion on every one of these. This.

B

Is fine yeah, it's very good whoa! That's really! It petition of sheaf street condominium association.

B

Owner and smith, family declaration of trust, todd c smith, trustee applicant.

B

For property located at 159 state street unit number 3a, wherein permission is requested.

B

To allow the installation of mechanical equipment hvac condenser as per plans on file.

B

In the planning department said, property is shown on accessor map 107 as lot 46-303-a.

B

Lies within the character district, four in historic districts who here's to present this.

I

J

C

One person online but their hand, isn't up. um This is a matthew, bb, oh project,.

F

And he's not here: well, let's continue it to next week or the end of the agenda. Okay, I'll move.

F

That we move this to the end of the agenda and if nobody comes it'll be next week. Second, then yeah.

F

I'm not sure what's happening all those in favor all right. I'd encourage you to look look at the.

C

Property for those of you that haven't been there looking at the image on the screen from the packet.

E

What are they trying to do? Put a condenser here up on the wall hanging on the wall.

C

It's kind of a shame: they can't get some trash cans to line up next to it. Yeah alrighty.

E

Wow, um is it a heat pump? What type of situation must be must be? I mean this.

D

Well, unless somebody shows up and tells us otherwise that's what I believe yeah.

F

um Can I request a very quick break? Okay, since I feel like this, one will be not quite as fast.

F

All right next project, yeah all right for boating, take a five or ten minute quick break. Thank you.

D

Oh, I hope they're happy. Okay, everybody we're back with a very short break.

B

um So we have a request to postpone so moved.

B

I guess I should read this yes: petition of sandra l. Smith weiss owner for property located at 138.

B

Gate street, whereas permission is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure.

B

Add one story: rear edition, with steps and landing and exterior renovations to an existing structure.

B

Replace windows, repair or replace, siding and trim. As for plans on file in the planning department,.

B

The property is shown on assessor and I don't have the right sheet here.

B

Map 103. yep, that's lot, 54 lies within general residence b and historic districts.

B

um David I'd like to move, we've uh postponed this until the next meeting yeah it's true. Okay,.

G

Second, second, all those in favor all right, mr crack. Now uh we don't have drawings, though of.

D

I don't, I don't see that in my packet of what one? No you don't have them, because they.

D

Request a postpone, so we didn't send it out, so you didn't send it out, but we will send it out.

C

In it well in advance of the name, okay, it's it's on! You know it's it's, unlike turf right. You know.

C

We should have known that yeah, it's apologies, all right toy taken, don't get him upset. Yeah.

B

Okay, so we have a work session, public hearing requested by 129 state street llc owner for.

B

Property located at 129 state street wherein permission is requested to allow renovations.

B

And construction to an existing structure, removal of the shutters addition of dormers and roofing.

B

And siding changes as per plans on file in the planning department, said property is shown on a.

B

Set or map 107 as lot 47 and lies within the character, district, 4 and historic districts.

B

And who's here to present this good evening, chairman members of the board, uh shane forsley,.

N

With hampshire development, on behalf of the owners of 129 state street, I'd like to thank you for all.

N

The constructive feedback that we've received over the past few work sessions and I'd like to jump.

N

Into uh some changes that we've made incorporated in this packet before you- and this is work session.

B

This is a work session, so, okay, so why don't you highlight the changes because you're going to.

C

Have to present it all, in summary, for the public hearing portion, great, which page.

N

So, first off we'll jump to uh sheet 3d1 that'll, be your 3d perspective.

N

Wait a minute, first and foremost a bit difficult to see in this, but we'll look at it in elevation.

N

We took your feedback on the oculus and has changed form. We've referred to it as a broken pie.

N

Essentially, what we've done is, instead of having the oculus protrude up from the roof. It follows.

N

This slope of the roof and if you jump ahead one sheet nick, actually I should say two sheet a.

N

2.1, not 1.3, okay, 2.1 got it right here you can see uh the oculus follows the slope of the roof.

N

um Is intended to project about six inches with a curb um lead, coated, copper for the side walls, but.

N

This is what we've we've come to for the design, the oculus another change, you'll notice on the.

N

Rear side on chief street we've removed the hip or doghouse dormer and replaced it with a skylight.

E

N

You'll also notice critical building dimensions have been added to this.

N

Midpoints of roof uh building heights uh dimensions of the property and footprint.

N

We went through the exercise of calculating additional volume, understanding that the hip.

N

Addition up, above or in between the original structure and the edition.

N

For a total of about three and a half percent of the total structure, there.

C

Is the red dash line the existing, correct, yeah, okay, and that red dash line is.

N

Actually shown both in elevation and in plan view, so you can see.

N

The footprint there I'd like to make a comment uh regarding the siding.

N

Modifications I misspoke the last time we were here saying that the existing siding was vinyl.

N

In fact, it is hardy board or similar. The installation wasn't done so so well and.

N

It it threw me off, so it is in fact hardy board, but we intend to replace it with uh wood, siding.

C

Sorry, even on the property line they're going to, let you do that.

C

Okay, you're putting deng glass behind it or something we will achieve our.

N

Rating on the structure- yes,.

N

He's not going to tell you um you'll, also notice the existing pediment on the pedestrian entry of.

N

The masonry building is shown as it is today. We took your feedback and and thought that it was.

N

Important to uh maintain that um communication between the entryway in the roof of the.

N

Historic building, I'm on the right sheet for you shane here you are top right right. There yeah.

F

So that's the existing, but it's still got the shutters and all that.

B

On it, though, yeah that's just where's the proposal.

B

Yep, if you're on 2.2 it'll be in the bottom left, isn't that it.

N

No, no, let's just say, yep, oh that's what I see baron you meant the side there. It is all right.

F

Okay, so that's yeah, it just needs to be when you present it make sure you present that one.

F

Since it's not called out in here, that's that's the one you're, preferring okay you're presenting.

G

Shane, what what's the added dimension of the building as it moves closer to sheath.

G

Street, I don't see numbers on that. It's about two feet, two feet. Three and uh three feet is.

C

That only the portion, no can you see what's on the screen? Yes, so is this moving back this.

C

Portion here is moving back from chief street you'll, see there's another red dashed line.

C

On the right, I see so that right hand side is existing and will remain where the existing is.

N

The left-hand side is proposed to push out of chief street and, to your point, we've.

N

We've contracted a surveyor to proof uh rear yard setbacks. Our intention is not to protrude on the.

N

Chief street frontage, putting us out of compliance so in the event that we are expanding onto sheath.

N

Street we will retract that back to where you see that that red line there to the existing yes.

C

What's your estimated amount of setback you have now from this this sidewalk there on chief.

C

Street, that's uh about seven feet to the to the proposed and maybe 10 feet to the existing correct.

C

So either way not enough room to park a car unless it's right unless you're to park, it.

N

Parallel to the street correct what you could do, you could do one car there was one there when I.

D

Went by earlier today and, as you all know, as you travel up and down that street, the.

N

uh Various properties sit right on top of uh the existing street or newly constructed sidewalks.

N

At either end and then, as you get to the midpoint of the street on this particular side or set back.

N

A little further with the incorporation of parking lots backyards that sort of.

N

Thing, but on the adjacent side, everything's right up tight to the to the property lines.

B

So you are putting new the new limestone headers. What what's the sill? uh The sill would also match.

B

Are they going to have the striations in it that or not? No, we don't intend to no no.

B

That's just the horizontal, the banding, the banding on on state street. Yes,.

E

And which door are you going for.

E

For the maintenance, for the main, uh the intention would be to preserve the existing pediment, which.

N

Communicates with the existing roof with the dental molding and all that detail up top.

N

That would be detail 3 on a 2.2 or option three. I should say.

N

In sheet 4.1 we'll show you all the trim, profiles and details of the windows, cornices eaves.

B

So I see all these window heads are flashed in.

B

Is that going to give you trouble, I mean, are you going to repoint the whole building.

N

We intend to wash and point the building as needed.

N

I think you're, referring to the lead flashings that come over the existing referring to them. Yeah.

D

And then you're not gonna in no manner try to.

D

Didn't say that you were just asked.

N

The masonry, particularly on the front and side need need some attention, as you saw.

N

With paint adhered to it, but our intention is to clean it, get it back to a fresh, fresh product.

D

Just to try to move the exterior the building back to its original.

D

Unpainted never been painted sort of look correct.

B

Okay, any other questions. This is a work session. Any general comments, uh work session.

D

Here's I'm having some heartburn. I'm sure everybody's excited to hear that.

D

um But give me a vacation for that.

D

I'm having a dilemma.

D

We have a historic material, not an original feature to the building. I think we're fairly.

D

Certain but a historic nonetheless treatment, that's been replicated at some point point.

D

And it doesn't suit the owner's interest in the building, and so it's being removed and.

D

And I can't say that I'm hugely against that. uh Because of its added nature and the fact that your.

D

Interest in the building is to make it appear more like it did when it.

D

Was first built not earlier than it was first built, but when it was first built, um but in.

D

The process of doing that, you then want to cut existing brick away and put granite headers in.

D

That were never there, and- and actually I was there this afternoon touring around and looking at a.

D

Number of buildings, and I'm not going to swear, I know when every building in the neighborhood.

D

Was built, but typically one could say that there are federal period, brick buildings there and then.

D

There are late federal period, brick buildings, there there's some with the pressed brick.

D

If you see in front of your building diagonally to the left, there's a handsome building where the.

D

Press brick has stone lintels, but most of the other buildings in that neighborhood on sheaf.

D

Behind you and across the street, with what used to be richardson's market and the building next.

D

To richardson's market those buildings are all of that same middling to early federal.

D

Row house buildings and they don't have granite headers on their windows. None of them do and and.

D

Interestingly enough, the left-hand half of what was once richardson's market.

D

Has a horizontal band on it of limestone-like material like your building and it doesn't have.

D

Stone headers on the windows, and so I'm wondering if we're undoing something that we actually know.

D

Did exist there that currently, in one way or another, does and trying to move the building back.

D

To us in an earlier time, which never existed by putting granite headers on the windows and and I.

D

I'm I'm getting stuck with that and I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't think that that's I.

D

Don't feel comfortable with that concept, but I throw that out as part of an argument this, unlike.

D

A new building or someone making some drastic changes to a building. This is someone trying.

D

To do the good care and feeding to a building to make it a part of representative of our community.

F

Okay, discuss the mysteries.

B

Do you have something to say reagan here, making some noises.

F

Yeah no, he brings up an interesting point um and we dealt with this. Similarly on beau street.

F

They had to re-do all of the brick because it was separated, and so when and when they did, that. When.

F

They we pointed redid the whole thing they did put in granite, headers and sills, because it was.

F

Wood previously and the idea was really just um longevity to give it better structure um and it.

F

Was it now looks like there are new granite heads, headers and sills and everything, but.

F

At the at that point, I don't think anybody had any major heart burn over it because it still.

F

Was consistent with a lot of the surrounding buildings, and maybe not particular to that.

F

Specific building, but you know it was fit in sort of with the historic uh language of the materials.

F

Surrounding it, um were you suggesting that I I was playing with the model again? Oh yeah, uh we we I'm.

C

Just curious: were you suggesting that a wood sill would be more appropriate? Speaking of the headers.

D

My point was that I I went over specifically this afternoon to count see how many buildings.

D

Had stone headers, how many didn't and and most of this there's a moment and and I I can't say that I.

D

Know why they did this, but there was a moment when it seemed like they abandoned the heavy headers.

D

We see intruded as stone, headers or stone. Looking headers on the the warner house further down the.

D

Street, but this particular group of modest brick buildings that have what I think, architects.

D

Refer to now, as a punch window, where there's no ornamentation or at all, just a good, clean hole in.

D

The brick wall, it's a window opening and there are no headers showing outside on any of them.

D

I believe that in the day they put wooden arches on the inside and spanned a couple of courses of.

D

Brick over those and on the outside, they put a thin strip of metal on top of the window casing.

D

And laid their brick on top of that, not on a structural number that anyone would consider.

D

Today, but no, but this just seems like we're, we're moving this building out of its time uh and- and I.

D

Just I wanted to have this conversation, so we all could have some piece of bite out of this apple.

D

Yeah, so this okay yeah! No, I just want it so to be clear. Underneath these uh applied header things.

F

Is just brick there's? No there's it's not like it's covering up! There's, no wooden! That's correct!.

F

No, no, I just want to be clear if you go down a little bit and look at this picture along state.

B

Street you see the buildings next, but I don't think that um he's moving it out of the time.

B

He's moving it into a better quality construction; in other words, if this were 1830 and they had the.

B

Money, they would have used the lentils and I I don't think we can argue with that. But I I don't.

B

Have the heartburn over it anyways um well just to, I guess, then continue my conversation.

D

To the applicant, I appreciate the diminished scale of the oculus. I think that uh you're changing that.

D

Dormer on the back uh to a skylight has a great deal of benefit to the streetscape, so to speak.

D

I have one other remaining question, which is: are you going to continue to support the.

D

Deck of your next door, neighbor on the back of the building the east side of the garage.

N

That's a good question I'll have to uh investigate that a bit further. To give you a good example, I I.

D

The only explanation I have is, I I think that jay smith owned both buildings at one time.

D

Okay- and I think that the deck it's not shown in any of his drawings.

D

So he's I don't think he's anticipating. What's going to happen terms of.

B

The side of this building, this sort of looks like in terms of fire code it it's.

D

It's huh can you show me where that is: do you have the ability I'm working on it as usual,.

F

Yeah I mean it doesn't work your design in general, but it does have a fire code, complication to your.

D

Project, do you see where it connects? um It's it's on the left. If you could see there, you on.

D

Further left on the next building that deck right there yeah swing to the right and yeah right over.

D

There is that posted, or is that I don't see a post or is that no, I don't see a post either so.

C

Yeah, I assume that's bolted to the side of the building yeah, which.

D

Mr crack now asked a question about fire code and the rest of that, and I don't see how they.

D

Get out of this one, someone needs to get up the sawzall. To answer your question, we would.

N

We would temporarily support that and meet any any code requirements. I'm sure.

N

I'm sure pat pat howe and everybody over at the the department would like us to.

N

Brace that properly, as well as uh quarter it off at that end, you raise a good point.

B

You made a very troublesome point: there dave yeah, um so if we could open this up to the public- and I.

B

I'm thinking there might be somebody here, who's next door with their deck attached.

B

To this guy's building, so if anybody in the public would like to speak to this.

F

Sure, and just so you know we're still in work session mode. I don't know if that I don't have.

B

Any matters either: okay; well, it's more casual, yeah, okay! So I'm marie bodie at 121 state street and I.

P

Think what's very important. Thank you, um mr adams, for representing the adjoining property that we.

P

Live in at 121 is also a condominium associated with 123 state street and that deck is adjoining.

P

The subject property here and it's of great concern to me because, as we presented to.

P

The htc back several years ago to extend our deck three feet. We had to take unusual steps.

P

To fire proof the underneath of a deck, so they are proposing to relocate their garage.

P

To a join us, I would think that there would be a lot of concerns and again being an association. We.

P

Are 50 50 owners with our butter, 123 state street? So um as the board here knows, we have issues with.

P

Regard to this project as a whole, so I don't think that we would be inclined to sign off on this.

P

Especially with this being a matter and the other thing I'd like to mention.

P

Is it's been discussed that this is a row house? This is one of three that I depicted.

P

In the presentation that I sent last month, if you look at the state street side, which you all had.

P

To use your words tonight, heartburn over on placing dormers on the front on state street.

P

I suggested at the last work session that you consider that sheep street is the front door to.

P

Many of our neighbors- and there are some here tonight that I think would also like to speak.

P

um I don't know whether I should review all of my comments at this point or hold.

P

Them to that for the point being, but I guess that's where I'll start. Thank you.

B

Very interesting and it's a condominium association.

H

Good evening my name is jonathan sobel. I live at 49 sheep street, which is directly across.

H

The street from the subject property, I'm a bit hoarse and I'm wearing a mask because I actually.

H

Am headed to mass eye and ear tomorrow for a little surgery so that I can speak a bit louder.

H

You may be fortunate that my voice gives out before I get to the end of the speech and save you.

H

The time but thank you very much for listening. I submitted a letter to address many of these issues.

H

And I wanted to perhaps focus a little bit on the fact that this is one of the few row houses.

H

That was built in this section of town after the great fire of 1813.

H

And it has great historical importance, as do the row houses further down on sheaf street, so.

H

The proposal here has a lot to do, in my opinion, with creating a bigger and more massive building.

H

As a termination of the row house- and in fact it now dominates the row house appearance, so I I I.

H

Think that, although the applicant may want to do all of these changes and expand this, uh it's to.

H

One end it's to the reduction of the importance and the visual appeal of the existing row house.

H

Now, to go to mr adams point uh the I call them pediments above the windows, the if we go back.

H

A decade when this came before the historic district commission, there is great discussion.

H

And great research into what this building really was at one point in time and how did.

H

It represent the historic nature of the row house at this location, and those pediments were debated.

H

And approved by the hdc, and now here we are a decade later: why are we removing them? You know.

H

This very board approved them. It's almost like the supreme court. Is there such a thing as precedent.

H

Can this board, with its opinion, establish precedent and I believe it can and it does.

H

And in this case the applicant is saying well to heck. With that precedent, we're going to.

H

Change this building all around and we're going to subvert the row house, appearance.

H

To a massive build out at the end of the row house,.

H

Excuse me so, just in in very intellectual terms, uh I think that this board has to consider.

H

The applicant's proposal in the context of the row house now you know tonight.

H

The mchenry firm presented what used to be emilio's, building with massive dormers on the roof.

H

You'll notice, I wasn't here to oppose that because in that case that's very much a.

H

Standalone building and I think you have a much greater liberty.

H

To expand it change it make it look a little different, but here this is exquisitely sensitive.

H

This proposal is not being responsive to the history of the row house that existed, so I object.

H

To a number of the proposals, finally, I also object to the expansion and the changeover of the garage.

H

You know if you go back just four or five years: the friends of sheaf street and the city spent.

H

Many hundreds of thousands of dollars improving this street, improving the the water, the sewer, the.

H

Landscape, the brickwork, the lights. We everybody's been very committed to improving the street.

H

And now we're proposing massing the end of this building expanding the garage.

H

And visually choking off the viewscape of shea street. Let me put this in a different way.

H

The extension of this garage is actually into the narrowest part of the street. The street goes.

H

From wide to narrow at both ends, so in this particular case, the proposal is to choke off.

H

Shea street, by expanding this garage further towards the street, now I was here when betty.

H

Wood owned this owned this she purchased it purchased it from jay smith, who did in fact.

H

Own both of the two end, what are now condominiums, this building, plus a condominium.

H

So she had a small garage, a wart on this building that was subordinate to the row house and.

H

It was approved for her to put that there, then, the next donors came along and they constructed.

H

This, which is much larger now we're going one step further and aggravating it by moving the.

H

Expansion into the narrowest part of the street, so it now becomes visually even more. Choking.

H

So for for that reason I also oppose the first story uh proposal, so that's kind of the overview.

H

Of this- and I appreciate very much your your time and I do recognize that all of you are volunteers.

H

uh And you spend a great deal of your time and effort on this committee. Thank you very eloquent.

B

Thank you very much. Thank you all right. Anybody else in the public.

B

So um I think we've bumped into a little problem here, nick what.

B

um They're, changing this structure to a garage and they're going to have to they. They have.

B

The people's deck next door is attached to it. I to me that is a problem that should be resolved.

C

Well, they're going to have to resolve that with the inspection department uh in order to proceed.

C

And you know I don't. I don't know that we know enough about the situation and whether easements.

C

Have been provided between the prior owner and the condo association, I would assume if there was an.

B

Easement that the owners of the condominiums would have known. You know that there's an easement well.

B

That, if there, if there is no easement, then there's uh you know, the two parties have to sort out how.

C

To co-mingle space, it's not really our business to do that! No! And it's um it's not our business to.

B

um Be concerned with the extension of the building two feet closer to the road.

E

Well, I I don't know about that. That's messing, that's awesome! It is massive yeah. I think you.

B

Have jurisdiction on that? Okay, nick! uh I know you worked hard to get that, but.

J

Could we take a look at the plan view that shows the dashed line of existing versus proposed.

C

See uh this one, do you have a plan view? Oh plan view? Sorry, which page is the plan.

N

A 1.1 I'll show you and to your point, nick.

N

There is a technical and code analysis for for this sort of situation that will have to be.

N

Discussed with the with the building department, okay, as far as the uh neighbors rebutting property.

C

This one right, so that one has the red line where this is, where the existing ones and where they are.

E

Three feet: no, so it looks like three feet: correct distribution, oh you had to you had to download it.

N

And if you jump ahead, nick one more page to a 1.2 it'll show the roof lines in plan view as well.

C

So what would happen I'm guessing just before I do? That is if you you had mentioned earlier.

C

If there was a problem- or these folks want the building to remain within the existing plane,.

C

I'm guessing that half bath would disappear in order to support two cars, correct yeah, so that.

C

That would be the implications of not protruding three more feet out into the sheath street. The.

B

Point has been made that the street is very narrow now so, which, which page am I going to.

C

For that um I don't know well a masking chain. If, if you feel necessary, you can see the uh redlined.

N

Roof plan on a 1.2 the next sheet: okay, yeah! That's that's over here yeah, on the left hand, side, okay,.

B

Okay, I'm looking for some voices here, marco! I go. I'm sorry! That's that's! Okay! I.

G

I find this project very difficult to opine on. I find david's comments very interesting.

G

I find the comments from the public also interesting with regard to.

G

The amount of research and work that was done on the things that were added, but that.

G

Was obviously before my time, but I find david's comments worthy of some consideration. I'm also.

G

Concerned about the massing of this edition, um I think you've done some work by taking out that one.

G

Doghouse dormer, yes, but starting to look at just the.

G

Comparison of the scale between the row house and the addition and thinking about our guidelines and.

G

How it's supposed to be subservient to the main house.

G

It's it's really sort of pushing the envelope. I have to think.

G

Of of the difference between where's, the main house and where's where's,.

G

The subservient house, so I'm gonna, have a very hard time making up my mind about this honestly.

B

Any other comments you have a question: you're you're, not asking for a variance you're, not.

J

In the setbacks or anything when it comes to shapeshift.

J

It's a natural business, so whatever it's called I you know. I usually use that as my guideline for.

J

What's overstepping the line and it sounds like you're, not no so.

J

And and some of our early discussions about the lentils and all that the notion that I got early.

J

On was that the lentils weren't original, they were somebody's whim uh to add them in history.

F

Yeah you mean yeah, the the the wood, the wood decorative caps over the windows, and so that.

J

I was comfortable with the idea that uh they could be removed and I am now so um I know there's some.

J

There's some talk about choking off the street. I you know, I don't see it choking off of the street.

J

I don't see extreme measures, I see you know you're you're expanding a little bit and there's there's.

J

Some logic behind why you're expanding so. For that reason, I can support what is going forward.

B

Okay, um realizing that we are still in a work session here, unless you want to get out of it.

B

Dan excuse me, I just wanted to add and support ryan on the pediment or the window treatments if.

E

We're trying to bring this back if we're talking about row houses, I think, bringing it back to this.

E

Form makes it look like one continuous row house, as opposed to this house, with its fancy pediments.

E

On it, so I don't see that as a big change, I think it's a good change. Yeah did you kind of mulling.

F

Over what david had brought up about, taking the pediments off and then, but inserting the stone.

F

um It's it's a valid point and for some reason- and I apologize because I had for some reason.

F

Thought that um there was like wood, a wood pet, a wood lentil underneath and which would totally.

F

I thought be improved by replacing with stone, but if it's just brick.

F

And it's continuous with the rest, I mean this building is set apart. It's not completely like.

F

The rest of the row house, because it has these the stone banding on it, which is different.

F

But um if it's I, um but I agree if we're, if we're going to remove the um these like.

F

Applied headers to bring it back to an earlier look, then I think we have to just keep the brick.

F

Opening that it is um and I'm assuming it's just a wood sill, that's! What's there now um and you.

F

Know find replace the sills improve those, um but I think I agree that um it needs to be true to its.

F

If we're going to do that and say we're being true to the original form, then we need to be.

F

True to the original form, um but like david and most of the other people, some of the.

F

Other people here I am fine with the rest of the um improvements, the changes to the rear.

F

I don't see it as as grossly more than what's already there that was approved before you're.

F

Bumping it up more in the back, but you'll deal with the setbacks and property lines, and I I also.

F

Like what we've done with the oculus, I think it will make it a lot less visible and I think.

F

More probably more historically accurate, the way it's constructed, so I think that's great. Thank you.

B

I guess I could see the stone lentils and I could see the non-stone lentils yeah. I think.

A

um I'm going to agree well several points. um I hear the concerns of the butters, the neighbors.

A

And I know shea street very well, you know spent a lot of time back there as a child and walking.

A

To work and such um and I understand how visually it kind of chokes off, but I do think the street is.

A

Lined with the two brick kind of sidewalks- and I think the the street itself is the same width from.

A

Beginning to end, I understand visually. It has that effect with that parking lot in the middle.

A

Before this house, um but I think I have to agree with uh mr ryan on that that if it doesn't go.

A

If there's no other uh permits or other um yeah yeah variances, um then I don't see a problem.

A

With it, you know, staying on the property owner's property, um a lot of these properties go right.

A

Up to the property line, I mean you know he's not necessarily doing that. um I do understand.

A

The concern of adding an addition and then making that addition bigger and then, where is that, where.

A

Does it stop? Where is the? Where is the end of the thing? For me, I would say it stops where there's.

A

Where you would need a variance um and then I think on the front, I think I'd have to say once.

A

We start removing brick and then it's disingenuous to the history. Then I would have to disagree with.

A

With the um removing the brick to put the um granite header yeah, the lenses.

A

Yeah and thank you for making the oculus so I've taken things a little um out of context here by.

B

Listening to the public and then we're still speaking so I'm going to close this.

B

This work session, okay, uh right now and um uh open up um the public hearing.

B

If you want I'll read it again, I don't think you need to give them an.

C

Opportunity to summarize any yeah right and if you want to make any last minute changes.

B

Yeah, this was a work session. You understand, so if you want to make any changes.

B

To your project, um knowing that we are soon to vote on it, it's up to you, yeah. I think my my.

N

Few comments would be um the incorporation of the the headers and sills the stone additions to the.

N

Windows um was a play off the banding on the front side of the building, so that was the intention.

N

Throughout I think, if, if it really um caused a lot of heartburn for for the board to remain yes,.

B

What are we talking about? I have a question for you all right. Sorry, you want to get your.

B

Question over with now, because we're starting this no go ahead, I'll bring it up um so.

B

What he just said is that he was playing off the horizontal banding, which, admittedly, is different.

B

Than the other two row houses right correct and using that as his reasoning behind putting in.

B

These headers, and so to continue that thought. uh If, if there was a lot of heartburn surrounding the.

N

The stone additions, I think that we could go back as a as a design team and revisit if.

N

We would be okay with uh just a brick opening or a punched opening for that matter.

N

um And we could, we could leave it off the table if it was. If it was uh that big of a concern.

N

And then, as far as all the all the technical items, as I said before, obviously we've got.

N

We've got a review and some meeting with the building department, as well as as well as some.

N

Of the life safety departments to work out, the details of you know: building spotted right up to.

N

Buildings, zero, zero lot line construction. It's all! It's all things that that we deal with in.

N

The city on a regular basis, so I'm sure we can, we can work it out and overcome those things.

F

Now should we close the work session now we close the work session we had. We did close more exactly.

E

Yeah, okay, I thought you were still talking to it now. This is the public hearing. Okay, great.

E

Yeah great, so that's the change you're, considering based on the feedback, you heard correct.

C

Okay, anything else, I can walk you back through it yeah, I'm just going to jump ahead to.

N

The cover letter, you've, provided and uh and and walk through each of the items as.

N

They're called out make sure we're we're clear. So, first and foremost, we propose to remove the.

N

Decorative window dressings or obliques, as we have referred to them as we deem them not original to.

N

The original structure rather a later edition, we would like to replace the windows on the building.

N

And you'll have a cut sheet in the in the back portion of your packet. For that that would be.

N

On state street, facing the j smith park and also facing shafe street and all those windows.

N

Would be consistent throughout the property, as you see them on the architectural elevations.

N

Touching on the limestone, sills and headers again, it was a play off the.

N

Banding on state street, but if it was a an issue for the board, we could revisit.

N

That and hold it out talk with the property owner and the design team to see how we'd.

N

Want to handle that whether or not a punched opening would be an acceptable finish for them.

N

There are two skylights on state street on the original structure as you'll see.

N

In the plans, as well as a recently modified dormer on chief street, which is now a skylight.

N

You'll notice that oculus, on the main, the main portion of the roof. It now follows the slope of.

N

The the roof and projects six inches with a lead coat. Excuse me with lead flashing up the sides.

N

You'll notice a shed dormer facing sheaf street as well as a hip roof addition.

N

On that portion of the facade.

N

We have presented two options for the pedestrian entry off the side of the original building.

N

The existing door and lights and pediment would be our preferred option for that.

N

We'd like to replace the existing asphalt, shingle roof with synthetic slate you've.

N

Got cut sheets in there, we've specced a borel product which we've used on some.

N

Of our other projects, you'll notice that the garage entry and the civilian entry.

N

Off of sheaf street have been reconfigured or flip-flopped. It will we're proposing garage.

N

Entry on the left and pedestrian entry on the right, which is opposite of how it is today.

N

We would like to replace the existing siding on the wood framed edition with period.

N

Appropriate collaborator composite understanding that, with close proximity to the neighbors.

N

And other buildings that there will likely need to be a fire rating in between.

N

You'll notice there are exterior lights above both the garage entries and the.

N

Balcony, on the second floor of the edition, I'm calling it.

N

And we propose to clean up the masonry wash point.

N

Clean up the masonry back to its original form, as the original building was constructed.

B

I have a question. Okay, questions comments. um Does anyone? How does the board feel about.

A

The synthetic slate as opposed to the opposed asphalt, shingles yeah yeah way.

A

Better way better, okay, I just remember we had the synthetic sleeve before and I want to make sure.

C

They're very, very I was replacing this and that particular brand is very.

C

Convincing yeah it's on the uh st john's church, awesome and 129 daniel street.

D

We had seen another kind at one point that was frightening. Oh I just that's what I want to.

A

Make sure that was where my alarm bells were going, which property was that? That was the.

A

um That was the alarm building center next to the mansion. It's like this yeah yeah thompson house.

D

Yeah, I don't know where they found the stuff. I've never seen it in the world, oh yeah, so I.

A

Just want to make sure we good good thought. I I spent some time looking at the things I.

B

Think we've got the captain thompson house that um that you could buy that at ocean state job.

D

Didn't hear that one yeah is there any other comments.

B

Martin you're, don't want to say anything well, no! I I'm uh I'm comfortable with the.

J

You know what we've said in the work session and and I think I'm ready to go forward all right. Okay,.

B

I just would like to say that I hear the neighbors thinking that this is a massive addition and I.

B

Tried to follow along and thinking that three feet extension and that does not go up to the sidewalk.

B

um I can't see it as a massive addition, so um I I tried to look at it in using that idea.

B

But I I can't follow up on it, so um I'm a little disappointed that we have all or a lot of us have.

B

Listened to mr adams argument, but I'm not sure I wanted to see granite. I would if um you know if.

B

It had been limestone similar to the horizontal banding. I think the one thing I want to say to.

B

It was yeah, it was like limestone yeah yeah, I'm all for the limestone, but um we've taken that out.

C

It's been mentioned to take it out, yeah yeah he's prepared to, but he doesn't.

B

I'm not sure where we're sitting then uh with the limestone we can, it could be stipulated to.

F

Be taken out they're going to and they will is yes all right. So I I would say that um with the.

B

Limestone uh lentils that I am in full support of this project um uh as far as um the the.

B

Doing the state street excuse me I'm trying to get it together here.

B

The fact that you have three townhouses a row, this one is already different with its horizontal.

B

Banding something that we see on the athenaeum, I'm not sure if that was put in at a later time, but.

B

um That horizontal banding definitely changes this building from the other buildings and.

B

So uh I guess I uh would be in support also so I guess I'm looking I'll probably take public.

E

Oh yeah, I'm sorry. I have something to say: okay, karen um yeah, I I go either way on the.

E

On the windows, I always look at it. What would I do and to me I wouldn't mess with that old brick.

E

But I don't have a particular love for the current pediments and I know that they were.

E

Researched but there really isn't any evidence that they were there any more than there was.

K

Evidence that there was limestone so I I don't have any problem, seeing them go away doing punched.

E

Openings would be okay, and also the limestone will be okay. As far as I'm concerned, okay- and I.

E

Do like the oculus change, I think it lowering the profile and going with the roof is, I think, going.

E

To be great well, I thank the board for the input because it took a few trips here to nail that down.

A

Yeah, I'm thinking sure, and I'm I'm considering walking back some of my comments on the.

A

I don't like when we remove any original brick. Obviously that's never uh you know. I never look.

A

At that, as a wind, but I can also understand, I put my other hat on where you said: if they would, if.

A

They could have built like this, they would have, and I don't want to make you build like they did.

A

200 years ago, because they didn't have the money 200 years ago, um that seems like bad logic kind.

A

Of but I so it's kind of a balance of quality craftsmanship, you know building a strong building.

A

And then keeping the integrity of the history of it. um So I'm not it's not a deal breaker for me.

F

I'll just say: I'm always really nervous when we try to guess what would have happened in the past.

B

But um you know, as far as the general quality of construction too, if you look at the building on the side, there are.

B

At least two places that um you can see the cracks going up: yeah because there's you didn't see this.

J

Yeah, can I just for the board there has to be? Are we suggesting there is no steel angle.

J

Or no lentil at all and that the triangular section above the window is just suspended in.

F

There there's got to be a structure on this yeah, mr adams. How exactly are those bricks, the walls.

D

At least three bricks thick yeah, um the interior two courses of brick are more than likely.

D

On a slightly arched humid piece of wood that sits on top of the window frame.

D

Ultimately, supported by the jams of the window frame which, in the day were two inch by a ten inch.

D

Substantial pieces of wood and the outside I do not know. I have seen it in one case where.

D

The brick were literally laid on the window casing again. They were building window frames differently.

D

Then, and the other case, I've seen like this, where there's a piece of flat stocks like something from.

D

The tire of a wagon back in the day pound it out flat and laid across as a piece of metal.

D

But not as you and your engineering brethren would design an angle, iron angle iron, so so I I believe.

D

And when I was there, I recall seeing a rust stain, which I assumed was a piece of 3 16 inch piece of.

D

Metal going across even if there was a piece of metal there, it would be iron, not even steel.

D

So but most of the load is held first of all, as you suggested, it's really ultimately only about.

D

14 brick yeah the triangle and most of that's, held up by the interior, two wives, which are supported.

D

On a sort of an arch, so it very few of them fall in lots of them crack and we've seen cracks around.

D

These windows and lots of masonry buildings crack even those that your brethren built.

D

It it's the nature of masonry, but very few of them fall in because of something like that.

D

Yeah yeah, but there's there's no there's no lentil. Well, okay might as well say, there's no.

J

Lentil there might be lentils coming out. On the other hand, they aren't going to put a 12-inch.

D

Deep piece of stone in there they're only going to put a stone in as thick as the outside wide.

D

And then there's no there's, no flashing, no weep holes. No, and so you know, and the mortar.

D

Is made out of something that's supposed to stand? I'm sorry yeah, but we've you know weep.

J

You might be running into somehow it's lasting constructability issues, yeah.

B

So if there's not any more comments from any of us, I'm going to just put it out to.

B

The public again all right, so if anyone in the public would like to speak about this project,.

P

Good evening again, marie bode 121 state street, I'm not going to belabor this. I can see that the.

P

Writing is probably on the wall, but I do just want to state that, um with all of the materials that.

P

Have been submitted, it's kind of surprising to me that they have added this ridge skylight, that I.

P

Don't recall, having ever seen even in the applicant's own skylight study,.

P

There's nothing that in our neighborhood in downtown that I'm aware of that has that.

P

Also, you have basically seemingly approved this. What I'm calling an eyebrow shape, oculus.

P

Window without any cut sheets, so we don't know what the material is. We don't know what.

P

The provider manufacturer is the only ones that have been isolated in their plans are.

P

The state street one and the one that already ex or I think that they've replaced the dog.

P

Shed dormer with so I'm not convinced how you all can vote on that without having seen.

P

What the materials are earlier this evening, I watched the program from home. You all had comments.

P

Or some of you had comments regarding the project that jonathan sobel spoke of on daniel street.

P

In regards to what the garage doors were going to look like, I haven't seen anything represented in.

P

The plans regarding that nor the door that's going to face sheep street. Lastly, I guess I would say.

P

I have to refer to my notes. Sorry.

P

The roofing material that is being cited cited and that plan that you see the aerial.

P

Photo I am concerned, although I understand that everyone would prefer a slate roof.

P

We do have an abutting situation and I don't know how the transition will affect.

P

Them having a slate, whatever type roof and are having asphalt. So, as you consider massing.

P

I reiterate that it's it's rather upsetting that in all of the submissions thus far, there has never.

P

Been an easterly or excuse me a westerly view, looking east down sheaf street, which I think.

P

The whole massing situation may have come up sooner. I think some of our our butters.

P

And neighbors would have been at the hearing. All we see are the pretty renderings that depict it.

P

Straight on and from our angle point to from our deck, so I may just have wasted my breath and some.

P

More of your time, but I appreciate you listening and I do um by the way um member blaylock have a.

P

Copy of the easement that is in recording at the deed that does not speak to in any way shape or.

P

Form um them having access to our property for the deck access. So thank you very much.

B

Stipulation about the garage door, I guess nick uh has written down yeah absolutely.

B

I wanted to come back yeah, I think, and and maybe I'm just trying to look for the detail on the.

C

Oculus, that does seem like an important enough element to be detailed before it's approved.

C

As a stipulation, but my opinion, yeah, and I would be curious how this the uh fosulate.

C

Gets seamed into weaved into the uh asphalt it wouldn't be. Weaved in there would be a.

C

Definite end and yeah to the asphalt and then it would start slate. You know it, wouldn't you.

B

Just so, I'm curious how that's done yeah yeah, um so that's another stipulation, yeah.

B

um Mr sabell, yes, thank you. I will be brief. I wholeheartedly agree with miss bodie.

H

Excuse me: I'm not sure that the committee has all of the materials. I don't think we do.

H

The two points that I'd like to address is that I was actually at the htc when they considered.

H

The last rendition of this building and the research in the pediments over these windows.

H

Is that, and I can attest to this, you could see the outline of the previous pediment.

H

And the drill holes into the brick and the mortar where they had fixed them there. So no one knows.

H

When they showed up- but it was some decades before that they had been put on there.

H

So I think that they, the decision of the historic district, to allow them to.

H

Restore those was appropriate and reasonable, and once again do we have double jeopardy here, whereby.

H

A historic district commission uh researches and approves and the public approves- and it's done.

H

And here we are 20 years later and we're tearing them off it does. It does not make sense to me.

H

The second point that I wanted to make was about massing, and it has to do with the garage edition.

H

And I think the comment was made that the garage at what point do you say it's too far and.

H

The reference was to the ordinance and I'm not sure what the ordinance.

H

Is but I thought that they had enacted in cb, 4 cbd, 4, a 5 foot, rear setback.

H

So that's just a question for the applicant, I I don't know the answer actually, but the.

H

Point that I would make is that this wart started off with j smith and betty woods.

H

And then it grew again with the previous owner and now it's growing another three feet.

H

And so to for this committee, in my opinion to say well, whatever the ordinance is, is the rule.

H

I think that's not correct thinking. I believe that the better way to look at this is is visually. What.

H

Does this enlargement create in terms of massing relative to the structure itself and this garage.

H

Becomes more and more dominant every 10 years it gets bigger and the point that I'm making is that.

H

The garage is now no longer subordinate to the row house. It's a whole structure unto itself so.

H

My objection is that the massing is too big and the massing actually has occurred over a number.

H

Of decades approved by various boards, and that the point at which we say hey, it's too big is when it.

H

Really visually does look too big, and I think that that is what is being presented at this point. So.

H

That's it. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you all right. Nick is there anyone online that.

C

uh It doesn't appear to be anybody with their hand up online.

B

Okay, well I'm going to close this public hearing and look for a motion.

F

I can attempt this I'll move that we approve.

F

The application with the stipulation that the um the brick window openings are not.

F

Or you can they're no limestone addition to the headers and sales of the brick um that.

F

What else the um cut sheets for the actually the details and for the in cut sheets for the new.

F

Garage doors and the garage door is the back door. We didn't have either and the oculus and.

F

The details for the oculus come back to us and the slate roof seam and the slate roof seam.

F

Which, um maybe you only maybe you'll end up only considering to do it on the.

F

New construction part, rather than try to tie it in because that does seem a little tricky. But.

F

Any other, I would say, if necessary, due to any zoning compliance requirements, the rear, rear yard.

C

Setback should be adjusted and resubmitted for at least administrative approval. It's.

C

Likely to get any bigger, obviously if it gets more encroachment in sheep street, it's got to come back.

K

And it's got to come back well, it can if they want to come back and if it's less it still.

C

Should come back for us to see it yeah and uh and just to be safe, half screens for the windows, and I.

C

Think we should just acknowledge that, whatever it's called encroachment or co-mingling of 121.

C

With 129, if they ever got them right that be addressed by the applicant uh and potentially.

C

Memorialized in some kind of formal agreement as they're connected have, we had a second.

B

Second, okay, um before so, you've already uh explained.

E

These effects that you want um you're, making a stipulation that the.

B

uh Headers be removed. Yes, yes, there he's. He has presented that the.

F

Current, yes, and that the current headers be removed and the original brick openings remain.

F

As is so yeah, the decorative wooden impediments are gone, yes, yeah and it's just openings. The way.

B

This is the original okay, all right, brick, openings, yeah um I'll. Second, that motion okay, of course,.

F

Yeah and again, I also want to um just state that I.

F

Hear hear the public's concerns we've done what we've been here a lot to go over the massing.

F

And everything I'm comfortable with it, as is I'm comfortable with the oculus and the the additions.

F

On the back, but um because I still even from these views, see this edition as being subordinate.

F

To this main structure, okay, do you want to yes, my findings of fact is that.

F

We have conservation and enhancement of property, values and.

F

There's a relation to the historic and architectural value of the existing structure.

B

Okay, um I I would just like to make the comment that um in the future, if um this is a deal, breaker.

B

For mr doyle, um the limestone headers that you certainly could come back with just that.

B

And try again because there was a lot of mixture on the board. Sure and um that's all.

B

Well, unfortunately, voting against your motion at this point puts the whole.

B

Thing to bed, so we really can't. I mean you amend it. Do you mentor, emotion? Well,.

B

We certainly could, I guess we could amend it, but.

B

I'm not sure where this is heading a certain support. The the thing is is that if we leave.

B

The windows, the way that they are with the with the wood, decorative trim removed.

B

At least we're you know we're in good standing and then, if we decide to vote in the in the future to.

B

Allow these limestone sure headers. We can do that exactly so we haven't done any damage. We've done.

B

No damage by what we're voting on right now, all I'm trying to do is do no. I understand.

B

And I I would also like to say concerning these wooden um impediments that were put on.

B

In 1860s or 70s, this building at one point was turned into a hotel.

B

I figured that's when they were. We were looking at this as a sidewalk.

B

And he has removed one of them and the building at one time was com was painted. The bricks were.

B

Painted a tan color and lo and behold that tan color went right down behind those. uh It was those.

B

Were put on after the building was painted, and so it's a very firm evidence that um they were added.

B

As a whim, somebody said to add a little bit of switzerland or something to downtown portsmouth.

B

And it was a kind of a popular thing also, I would say so. uh I guess.

B

We've got the motion and the second, so I'm going to call for a vote. All those in favor say: aye hi.

G

And I'm voting I reluctantly and the chair votes. I also those that are against okay.

B

So you have your approval. Thank you very much for the understanding. We appreciate it all right so do.

B

We have a motion to adjourn a second thank you all, those in favor, aye, aye, all righty, for my partner.

D