City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 8 Jun 2022

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From YouTube: 6.8.2022 Historic District Commission

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6.8.2022 Historic District Commission

A

Good evening and welcome to the june 8th meeting of the historic district commission.

A

um Before we get started I'll make a few introductions. Dan brown.

A

Blue and martin ryan good evening and reagan rudy good evening and I'm john wyckoff. We have nick.

B

Good evening yes and rich blaylock good evening and margo doering, hello, um david adams, is out.

A

With health issues as knee- and we also have our alternate karen brevard- will be here and voting.

A

Soon so um the board's actions in these matters have been deemed to be quasi-judicial in nature.

A

If any person believes any member of the board has a conflict of interest.

A

That issue should be raised at this point or it will be deemed waived. So we go into administrative.

A

Approvals, we have a couple postponements. We might as well get out of the way.

A

um Request to postpone a petition of 531 islington street portsmouth property located at 531, wherein.

A

Permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure as per plans on file in.

A

The planning department said properties shown on assessor map 157 in lot 5 and lies within.

A

Character: district 4 dash l2 in the historic district and also old business b. The petition.

A

Of sheaf street condominium association, smith, family declaration of trust, todd c smith, trustee.

A

Applicant property located at 159 state street unit dash 3a, wherein permission is requested to.

A

Allow the installation of mechanical equipment as per plans on file in the planning department.

A

Said property is shown on assessor map 107 as lot 56-303-a lies within character, district 4 and.

A

Historic district would somebody make this motion the move. We uh postpone a and b okay to next month.

C

It has to be next month, yes, next month; okay, second, second, all righty. So all those in favor all right.

A

All right all right! So now we'll move back to administrative approvals. Mr chairman, I'm going to.

D

Recuse myself from this part of the hearing, okay, all right, you have to sit down in the bleachers.

E

I also have to recuse from 35 pleasant street, so we just have enough four.

A

Okay, nail biter, um we could do 35 pleasant street. Let's just do that right with the four we've got.

A

With all of us that we've got yeah or yeah and then um then you could so you might want to.

A

Sit down also and then come back. Thank you. Thank you for making the extra effort too.

B

Okay, 35 pleasant: this is for a proposal to install mechanical equipment in the form of.

B

A mechanical screen and an exhaust tower on a single story: rear edition. That's already there.

B

Behind the building at 43 pleasant, there are a number of uh images in the application.

B

There's also a floor plan that was submitted today to make it a little clearer. What's going on on top.

B

Of that single story roof, so you each have a hard copy of that on your desk. It's also on the screen.

B

uh It shows the existing equipment, as well as the exhaust tower.

B

That's 12 feet tall, that's being added and the 42 inch safety rail, that's required with.

B

A a mesh screen as detailed on that handout to go and be applied along that handrail.

B

I don't know what else to tell you the the images that are in the application.

B

Make it clear where it is here, it is looking back from the the drive-through on the upholding.

B

Bank, this is state street over here. So this is the proposed screen. There's the exhaust tower.

B

That's essentially, the application.

B

Any okay would we uh like to make some comments, or would somebody have a motion.

C

I think it's fine, it's screening equipment, which is always.

C

Encouraged so I'm fine to move that we approve this as presented unless anybody else says.

A

Second, I would say also, this is something we might want to remember this.

A

Screening material that attaches to these standard size uh fences that people are now.

A

Required to put around their equipment so all those in favor, aye aye all right all right.

A

Okay, thank you. Let's wait for margo to come back. You're welcome! Oh no problem.

B

We'll get you next time: eli um 50, newcastle.

A

New stadium yeah, the applicant for 50, newcastle lab, is simply looking to add a rear shed to this.

B

Project that was previously approved- I don't know where they are in the construction process,.

B

From that previous approval- but most of you saw this in the last two years- amy dutton was.

B

The architect of record, so it's just sorry for everyone else. I get it on the screen.

B

It's a pretty simple oops, I just needed to scroll um here we go.

B

Yeah, there's a lot of pieces, a lot of images here to the last one. So hang on.

A

There's an awful lot yeah. That page seems to be in there five times. I didn't scan it. Okay, oh.

B

Geez, what's that I remember this though sorry eli was very thorough. Okay, so there's the shed here.

B

There's the location of the shed well behind the principal structure here, um obviously,.

B

Details matter, you can see everything, that's detailed on that sheet. All all four elevations.

E

Do you know where they planning to use vinyl siding, as stated in the specifications yeah.

B

Where are you actually seeing in the floor left side view structure, details, structured details.

E

Yep yep, I would assume that's what they're asking for, and I think that's worth.

F

Asking whether that's appropriate yeah right here included.

A

Okay, so is it the feeling of the board that um we remove the vinyl siding on the shed.

E

It also doesn't say what like it would it doesn't say what the windows are made of either.

B

Well, they're, probably probably a little shed window, they're, probably vinyl windows.

C

I'm less concerned about the windows because it is far away and the only way that you'll see this.

C

Shed is when you're on the little path that goes from the road into the harbor school, um but.

A

We don't have to remove the vinyl, and it's on our. um It would be nice for them to actually have web.

C

Siting as stated in our guidelines, yeah yeah, how do you feel I would if we just change the wood I'd.

E

Be fine, yeah, okay, so we'll make that a stipulation. Someone make a motion sure I move that we approve.

C

This application, with the stipulation that the siding be um wood, collaborates rather than final.

A

All righty any second, second, second, all right, all those in favor all right. Okay, there we go.

A

Okay, we've postponed the old business a and b, so we're on 90 fleet. We're able to see he's actually.

A

Very very visible petition of helen marks owner for property located at 90 fleet street unit d.

A

Wherein permission is requested to allow exterior renovations to an existing structure replacement.

A

Windows as for plans on file in the planning department, said, property is shown on assessor.

A

Map 117 as lot 41d lies within the character district, 5, downtown overlay and historic districts.

A

Who here is to speak for this helen marks? How are you you should introduce yourself again? Yes,.

F

I am helen marks and thank you very much. I'm sorry. Can you hear me? Yes, yes, I was here last week and.

F

You needed the measurements of the windows, and so they were resent and supposedly you have them now.

C

Yep um and I guess I have a question or comment on them.

C

I see this style here, I'm not quite sure which one is going where, but regardless the.

C

Windows that are there that are above fat face, so you've got the sort of the four we have five.

C

Right but the ones that are above the the front corner, one have four panes and.

C

And I realized some of the others are not have just two.

C

I don't know if it would be possible rather than to have this type of configuration where you have.

C

The lower fixed piece of glass, if the whole thing could move back and forth so that you don't have.

C

So many different types of windows yeah. The reason for that is for safety reasons, because the windows.

F

Go from ceiling to floor so we don't want it to slide open and someone could fall right out here.

F

In the sense, so it has to have some border in the middle okay. I assume that that's code. Yes,.

C

Code issues too yeah very good. um Okay, and we were. I rather wanted to put the sliders, because they're.

F

Cost not as costly as the the other ones and there's so much going on on the bottom ones. But.

F

Whichever one you would oh, so this is sort of two. There are two different channels: yeah.

F

There are two options: yes, the bottom ones are encasement windows. Yes, yes, they're. All three.

G

Will be the same, I'm not going to put different windows, all three windows that are being replaced.

H

Will all look the same either the top ones or the bottom ones, whichever one? Okay, you guys are proof.

C

Martin's, martin, I'm sorry yeah, you know if you did want that full sliding effect. You could put.

D

A a bar that, at the same height as the bar you see here, and this way you don't have to have the.

D

Three windows you'd have the safety effect of a separate bar on the inside. You mean yes, yeah it'd,.

B

Be probably more than a bar, though, wouldn't it yeah it would be bar with yeah. It would be real.

B

Vertical supports on the bar: that's a pretty big gap under that bar right. If it's that low.

B

Maybe maybe it involves multiple bars yeah, but you could do that. You could yeah.

A

I mean I don't need to bring this up, but I do have a nephew that fell out of a window like this.

A

And it was a bad thing: they paid a lot of money. I'll tell you that I was in los angeles.

F

We don't want any of that, so no, we don't want that. It's a terrible thing, but there are ways of having.

D

The window as you want it, you still have a safe safety factor and so yeah that could be done. Yeah.

A

Okay, now anybody else have some opinions on this side over here in the deep left. No, I agree with.

I

What I've heard I feel so embargo no comment. No, I mean I would think that it would be preferable to.

C

Keep the same window sizes if you wanted to. I don't know if you thought about putting.

C

An interior guard or bar in there. It really wouldn't look too nice to put that. We, I just.

F

Feel it's so much safer like that. I would hate for anything to happen to anyone. It just feels.

H

You know the glass is going to be the tempered glass that it needs and the bar will keep it.

G

Really safe and it's kind of important to me: okay, um so I'm not going to make that a stipulation.

A

Then, and um which of the two yeah, which are people in agreement for the first one, the top.

C

Slider just ask one clarifying question the lower panel you're going to have that completely clear.

E

Glass you're, not thinking about having a frosted glass or anything like that. No I'm just clear.

A

Yeah, do we have consensus on the first or the higher one or the lower one which.

A

One, do you prefer your window, the slider one on top okay yeah, that's what I prefer.

F

Yeah, okay, I would agree yeah. I would agree now I'm going to open it up to.

A

The public is there anybody in the public that would like to speak on this proposal.

A

J

Paige trace 27 hancock street. um This appears to me to be an obvious win-win for.

J

This lady, this is a perfectly lovely design-wise window and it solves a major.

J

Problem with all of the issues that you brought forward, so I as one resident in.

J

The city would say this is a great thing. Let her have a window. Thank you. You're welcome.

A

Anybody else please: okay, I'm going to close this public hearing and uh ask for a motion.

A

I would suppose we could mention the sliding yes, yes, the stipulation I'll move that we.

C

Approve this application, with the stipulation that the.

C

First option with the sliding windows rather than the casements, be used.

C

This um I mean this complements and enhances the architectural and historic character. It's not.

C

Out of character for this building, this is still clearly a storefront type window and.

C

Has compatibility of design with surrounding properties.

C

All righty, so uh all those in favor of this motion say aye aye against you have your approval.

G

Thank you. Could I ask one more question? Yes, how long is the approval good for like how.

F

Long of a period of time, one year, one year, okay, you can get a one year extension if you.

B

Come back before the year expires: okay, great! Okay! Thank you all very much. You're welcome.

A

Okay, moving right along or attempting to.

A

A

Addition of national society of colonial dames owners for property located at zero market.

A

Street and 55 series street the ore house, wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an.

A

Existing structure replace the existing fencing as per plans on file in the planning department.

A

Said property is shown on assessor map 118 as lot 5 lies within character, district 4.

A

Downtown overlay, civic and historic districts, and who is here to give this presentation there? She is.

G

G

Carla goodnight from cj architects, you are moving quickly. Thank you very much.

G

G

Sort of a follow-up application to a prior approval for the 55 series street project.

G

There was a stipulation um for replacement of the existing fence and all other items on presented.

G

On this, application were previously approved at the february 9th meeting.

G

And uh what we did was we met out there on site on a beautiful day as a group and um measured the.

G

Height of the fence and the length of the fence and determined the extents of the fence.

G

That was most desirable for not obstructing the view, but obstructing the mechanical equipment.

G

And what we had arrived at was, as you can see, 1.1 1.2, showing existing conditions and the view.

G

The view areas when you get to 1.3, we have arrived at a mahogany fence that would be installed along.

G

The front to replace the fence: that's there, you can see it in plan on detail. 3 of 1.3.

G

And we have some pretty specific details about the way the pickets are.

G

As designed uh in the authentic details for fences by peter harrison and then down the side.

G

As well and the distance that we have there and the intention is to just allow.

G

The fence to weather, naturally, because the star of the show obviously is the view.

G

So we're just going to put that up as a screen and um it has some translucency.

G

As did the prior fence, so that's what we're that's our follow-up to the previous approval.

G

I

um This has all been approved by the dames as well they're on board, like you said,.

G

Yes, they had a board meeting and uh they voted that this was acceptable and I believe.

G

Two members of the dames were in attendance at our at our determination meeting, yeah excellent.

G

Or investigative meeting, okay, anyone on this side, just for the sake of.

D

Record, what's he on center, for the pickets? Are they every uh they are? The space is the same as.

G

The width of the picket so it'll be a void in a solid, so okay, one to one you should know, and the.

D

And the frame behind it pressure, traded or regular mahogany, okay, mahogany also, yes, very nice.

A

All righty any other questions or comments. No, I'm just I'm glad that everybody was able to come.

C

Together and come to a design for this, because the poor fence that is existing now is um not.

C

Very attractive, so this would be a much better, better option. Thank you, and it's also good that.

A

This uh is an authentic detail from mr harrison's book, which I will make an attempt to get a copy of.

A

It's not that easy, so that's it for us! Anybody in the public would like to speak.

J

Paige traits 27 hancock street will wear a different hat tonight. I am the president.

J

Of the new hampshire society for the colonial dams of america, and I met with carla goodnight.

J

We approve this fence as designed. We've done a simple change to the top of the picket.

J

And otherwise height height-wise, it stays the same. It will not be attached.

J

To 135 market it will be attached to our roof, so that is another part of this, and we.

J

Also agree, you will all be pleased to know that we agree with the fence headed down.

J

On the side of the building between market and syria street, somewhere between 14 to 18 feet.

J

And I think that's the best solution for all for this and that current fence is actually.

J

An historic design as rough and ugly as it is. It's simply that the material that it was made.

J

Out of 30 or 40 years ago is disgusting pressure treated. I was only commenting on that yeah you're.

J

Absolutely correct, you're, absolutely correct and I'm sorry I apologize due to certain situations. I.

J

Couldn't speak at the last several meetings and I hope you understand, but now I can and I'm here and.

J

I approve it. Thank you. Thanks alrighty anybody else in the public like to speak about this.

A

Yes, please come on up.

G

My name is kathleen touton, I own treehouse toys, which is located right next to that.

H

Fence and I think it's going to be lovely, it's much appreciated after enduring that.

G

That kind of rickety old fence that's before there. So thank you all very much.

G

All right, thank you, thank you and just to comment on my end that whole area is now looking so.

A

Beautiful with all the flowers and it's it was sort of getting a little run down.

A

After a few years, but now it's just amazingly beautiful, okay, sorry could I have a follow-up.

E

Question because paige said the fence would be between 14 and 18 feet. Is it not decided.

J

My apologies, I didn't actually look at the final distance on the final, but I trust the.

J

Carla and the architects working for carla and we did it by actually standing there.

J

And deciding whether you could do it, how far you could do it without disturbing the.

J

View and the fuse shed of the river yeah sorry long day, the best way to do it.

J

Yes, all righty, I'm going to close this public hearing then and look for a motion.

D

I'm sorry go for it. Yeah motion to approve, as presented I'll. Second, all right.

D

That uh give some effects something it deserves. The integrity of the.

D

District and is compatible with the design of surrounding properties.

A

All righty, so uh all those in favor say aye aye anybody against and you have your approval.

A

Let that thing fall down, replace it. That's what it looks like it's going to do.

A

Work sessions, so I believe, we're going down to the table for a long and comfortable evening.

A

I

A

Greetings and salutations.

A

Yeah, I just want to say that um I'd like to keep it to a half an hour, I'd like to keep.

A

All of these for half an hour, because we've got tips of these things. Well, you are the chairman.

G

So I'm not sure okay make that happen. I might give you another minute.

F

F

F

Okay: let's go ahead and son of a gun.

A

Let's see work session requested by one reigns, avenue llc, 31 range avenue, llc.

A

And 203 maplewood avenue llc owners for property located at one range avenue, 31.

A

It would be easier if you just wouldn't had one address. I don't think we're allowed to do that.

G

Until after wherein permission is requested to allow the construction afford a five-story.

A

Mixed-Use building and a five-story hotel, as for plans on file in the planning department,.

A

Said property is shown on assessor map 123 lot, 14 math 123 lot, 13 map 123 lot, 12 lies within.

A

Character, district 4 in historic districts. So please introduce yourself good evening, carla.

G

Goodnight and jake weeder from cj architects and evan evan tormey representing the owner.

G

So what we prepared here for you this evening is updates and.

G

The areas that you had asked us to concentrate on as well as.

G

uh We've begun introducing some of the details because I know there were some concerns about.

G

Exactly what are the details that we're seeing in the sketchup uh in the rendering models so.

G

So and we've also put the buildings together, so we're looking at them as a single unit.

G

One of the changes from last time is that this.

G

Building along maplewood avenue actually got a slightly narrow narrowing, which I think is.

G

Is helpful for giving it an offset offsetting the mass and creating a.

G

Better proportion facing maplewood with that little setback area so that got narrowed up and.

G

We also are showing the rooftop equipment from this bird's eye view, which you would not see. We.

G

Wanted you to we used this view, so you could see which page? Where are you I'm sorry, 2.1.

G

Yeah, I'm not stating my page you're good at that. Normally I know I know she's tired yeah. I know.

G

So 2.1 uh we've expanded the glazed canopy uh area and then we've also consolidated the entrances so.

G

There's a little more variety and decided that the spaces were better served by a smaller canopy and.

G

Then a central entrance get based on the uses that are going on back there. This is going to be much.

G

More supportive of those uses- and I think it looks simpler and more unified that way and a little bit.

G

Of variety so that's been introduced and then, like I said we tipped the building up, so you could even.

G

So you could see the rooftop equipment and our intention is to uh screen that mostly from.

G

From view by just having it centered on the on the roof, uh also that center, the wider canopy is glass.

G

Center, yes, yes yeah! So that's the primary residential entrance and so sort of celebrating.

K

That entrance and then there are two entrances to the sort of commercial retail space, but really.

K

One primary one secondary so we've emphasized the primary with the canopy and the secondary egress.

K

Is just sort of doors more in plane with the rest of the facade, okay hierarchy, better hierarchy, they.

G

Were all kind of similar before so uh the glazed entry canopy is uh highlighted in an inset detail.

G

More top down on 2.1, if you go to 2.2, we can see also the removal of that uh recessed entry.

G

Has helped glaze that corner a little more efficiently on the end of budding the hotel.

G

um You can see that or actually you can't see the rooftop equipment from this vantage point.

G

um Just based on the angle and the setback uh moving on to 2.3 the introduction of this.

G

Textured element in the center, I think, is what we've been searching for, because we've tried.

G

Glazing we've tried, you know, we've tried a bunch of different options and pulling in the white and.

G

So forth, but I think introducing a finer texture was very helpful to uh create that differentiate.

G

The entrance areas with that different uh material so and I don't think we called it.

K

Out on here, but the window configuration was also changed in response to the comments from the last.

G

Meeting right, we've done away with the t-shape uh window here and gone for something.

G

A little more simple and clean clean lines because we've introduced another texture, that's kind of.

G

You know a little more energy, so we're trying to trying to simplify the uh window lines too.

G

What's that diamond shaped metal accent siding? Is that called out somewhere? uh There's an example.

G

Of it on the lower right in an inset, but it's also on the materials page or no. I don't think.

G

It is yet on the materials page, it's uh it's just a photograph is, is called out down here.

A

In that building well, that building has some interesting lines, but we'll find a.

A

Better example we're using a different color and a nice rectilinear shape, so we felt that that image.

K

Sort of represented the texture of the material obviously not applied in that manner. You know to.

A

That type of building- but I think it's got some nice depth- we do have that on port walk place on.

A

One of the building chunks there that are meant to is it different, yeah, it's metal. It is metal.

C

What's basically being put on the new dano street building as well.

A

That's copper, copper, yeah! Is this copper? It's titanium.

A

Yeah we've got something from harvey here.

A

No actually they're, not in business a different name. Now: okay, I'm sorry keep going. We also added.

G

Signage um to just give an idea of how that would be handled and sort of add to the building um and.

K

Then we're showing the the canopies we had shown sort of two options. Last time: oh right! Yes, yes.

G

We've made these more consistent reconciled, the two options of canopies to be one uh one: option.

G

As well um and then looking at 2.4, uh you can see the entrance next to the garage a little more.

G

Readily here, with a little canopy, we've removed the obstructionary tree. That was there.

G

And you can see the railing off to the right for where we've introduced that balcony on the top.

G

Floor and the simplified window patterns, I think, are really helpful here as well.

B

Is that is the back of 3s really that bad? That is the city model nick.

G

That's the jpeg I'll, send you another one. It needs a mural. If that's what it looks like, I know I know.

K

That um beth has been pushing for a mural for some time. It's a canvas right there. Yeah, yes, is that.

A

This has nothing to do with this. I suppose, but is that balcony is it for the whole hotel or.

A

Is that just for the rooms so right now the way we're looking at it is? There would be a.

K

Portion of balcony that would be dedicated to a suite on that floor, but then also a portion.

K

Of the balcony that would be available as a sort of a space for, like other guests within the hotel.

K

Potentially, as you know, rented space for uh you know, small gathering.

G

Would you get a little bit better look at on 2.5 when we zoom in.

G

You can see, we've introduced some metal panel details a corrugated detail in the base.

G

Of the building on the right side of the garage opening, which I think adds again another a nice.

G

Contrast to what's happening there and then the rooftop terrace and on 2.6.

A

uh Is this just standard parking underneath here or is it elevated standard grade parking? Yes,.

G

And 2.6 illustrates again that stair tower that we developed last time and you can see some openings.

G

On to that, rooftop terrace there from on the hotel and then the mixed use, building again.

G

You, I think you can notice it here that that front area on maplewood has been pushed back.

G

uh Quite a bit which offsets that, from from the main volume to the left.

K

Steps down slightly as well, yes, yeah view across the water it's on 2.6. Is that another.

A

Garage door opening on the extreme left, I can see you have that panel on these apparently.

A

And then there's an opening right. That's the shadow of the tree falling on the slatted fence.

G

But you do pull in there right to park from those cars yeah.

B

On the other side of the elevator tower, the stair tower right right, not on the back side on the side.

F

But I thought you were talking about the tree shadow, but you can see it on in this.

G

3.0 section you'll be able to get a better indication on 3.0 in plan we'll get there. Okay.

G

uh And then what we've done is uh to give you the dimensioned elevations. uh To sort of you know.

G

We've been looking at all of this in 3d, so I want to try to um provide the opportunity to you know.

G

Represent the dimensions that we're intending and begin looking at this as actual dimension, drawings,.

G

So this series 3.0 3.1 and 3.2, actually the the entire three series. I is just here as record.

G

Dimensions for the florida floors and the building height to the top of the roof. It's amazing that.

A

You could pull this off and make it all 59.99. Well, it's from the average grade, plane, yeah! That's why.

G

So and then 3.5 shows the window dimensions, so we have that cottage style with the.

G

C

Is this? Does it have an awning bottom? How is it functional.

G

It's right now, it's a double hung: okay, it's a double hunt um and because this is the residential.

G

um And then 3.6 is showing the um some of the details on the upper cornice with the banding.

G

And the pre-finished trim and the clapboard siding and then uh also the brick cornice, with the stone.

G

Freeze and um the brick veneer so and the precast banding. So that is the intention of the cornice.

G

And then again, uh the smaller furnace.

G

This is the the smaller insulated, I'm just.

A

Making really, why no is it? Is it look at it right there? It looks like insulation.

A

F

Okay, where are you go um we're on 3.7 we're talking about the uh the different types of.

G

Banding and the banding spacing that you've seen on the elevations 3.8 uh shows the balcony detail.

G

um And then the lintel at the balcony, so you can see that in the elevations and in the model.

G

Showing the aluminum rail with the nice sort of round uh guard and the.

G

Yep 3.8 the deep pre-finished aluminum panel to give you that c-shaped metal.

G

Piece at the finished edge of the balcony and then 3.9 again just bringing into focus some of these.

G

Metal and stone trim details and how that actually is going to play out on the building.

G

And then some treatments on window installation.

G

Head jam and sill and then we have the series of hotel elevations, which.

G

G

See the signage and the different treatments for elevation materials, 3.12.

G

We don't have these keyed exactly to the elevations yet, but.

G

We'll have that, obviously, in the final we just want to give you a.

G

Overview, yes, can I go back, I'm sorry. I was looking at again at these window details.

G

G

That's the mixed-use building so.

G

Great, that is, I believe, it does not look like the right.

G

Section window section jam itself so right now it's good to have the draft stage.

G

Good to have the draft stage.

G

Right all right and 3.11.

G

3.12, you get a better look at the proposed panels there on the right hand, side and 3.13. uh That's.

G

Just the end elevation there with the windows and you can see beyond the entrance underneath.

G

G

Also through that stairwell area with the side, that's the side kind of hard to see with the.

G

The uh building being the angle going away from you on the left and then, if you look vertical.

G

If you look at the vertical piece, that's where that hotel sign is that you saw in the 3d that.

G

Will help replace you trying to find that and you can see the canopy to the right.

A

But where's the garage entry on.

G

It is on 3.14, but it's angled, so you're, seeing it.

G

To the to the right of the stair tower, that's grayed out: okay and 3.15.

G

3.15 shows the window details, at least in the beginning stages of window details they're, not.

G

Complete, but just to give you an idea of the size and shape and dimensions.

G

Operational at all, I believe the the smaller pain, smaller casement, I'm sure there are sort.

C

Of weird hotel rules about what windows can be open, they usually have limiters.

G

um I believe the first floor is fixed though the taller 10 foot is fixed and then again the cornice.

G

Details showing the dimensions and the extensions of the aluminum wrap uh one foot six out from.

G

From the building face, and then the horizontal banding at the roof on 3.16 3.17 shows the.

G

Brick veneer and the brick soldier course applied at the top of that banding at the cornice on.

G

L5 and then the performed metal cornice, the pre-formed metal cornice at the stair roof.

G

So and then again the brick band.

G

And the pre-finished aluminum trim how that's executed it's going to be a two foot high piece.

G

And the entire uh brick veneer detail will be three foot four, so that'll be a sizable piece.

G

And then moving on to 3.19 window head jam and still, I believe these are the correct.

G

These are proposed to be vinyl. Yes in the hotel, black and the exterior. I don't think that we're.

A

Going to find that acceptable, okay, we'd prefer a metal, clad, yeah or even anybody. Exclamation.

A

At this time, because they'll be coming back soon,.

A

Marco, you don't care the windows. Do you want fire? I would not like vinyl, okay yeah. I agree. Sorry.

G

All right! Well, that is that's our that's. Why we're here.

G

And then the appendix is basically for reference like for just the plans, nothing new there.

G

um Other than uh just for your information, all the plans and site plans and so forth, and the.

G

Project data, if you had any questions about that and then of course, the parking system.

G

And we've seen all that in our previous meetings. So how are we doing on time? um We've got some time.

A

um Let's um everybody make a comment or a question: martin, do you want to start or no um yesterday.

D

It's here, it's fine, it's uh it's safe and I wish there was some excitement about the building.

D

If we look at the fish scale,.

D

Texture added, I appreciate the gesture again this picture frame where the horizontal.

D

Band at the base is the same as the verticals is the same as the cap on top drives me not side.

D

There's no hierarchy to it. There's no really nice sense of detail to it. I'd I'd, rather that.

D

You find a way to to detail between the fish scales meeting the brick return of the pie, laster.

D

I think that'd be more interesting than this sort of simple picture frame, brake metal.

D

um Again, it's it's a big gesture on the side of a building that that historic detailing.

D

I just wish there were. We have bands here that are continuous through the whole building that I.

D

Would like to have seen a little uplift at the canopies at the entrances, just just a little.

D

Slight gesture that would go a long way, maybe maybe a panel at the at the attic level at the.

D

Very top level, maybe a panel between those windows to signify you know some sort of story. You see you.

D

See it in historic buildings where, between at that level, at that very top level, you have some.

D

Gesture that sort of is like a coin or something that that gives the building some interest.

D

You know it's to me. I just would like to see some I'd like to see something. That's just this.

D

Eye-Catching that shows I mean this is like I said it's very safe. It's very it does the job. It fits.

D

It's it's fine, both buildings, martin or just one building in particular both buildings, okay,.

A

Can we move on? Maybe I'm sorry, I know I know I'm trying to hurry things up. We have seven people. I.

D

Know but you asked me to go and let me just finish: okay, maybe an arch, we're the city of arches right.

D

Historically, we have arches, we have one at the music hall, maybe there's an arch that goes between.

D

These two buildings go ahead. All right! Well, you apologize. That's fine! I apologize for stopping.

A

I just want more yes, I do also. um I agree for most of the comments. I I I'm still not necessarily very.

C

Excited by the design of either buildings, I don't can't say that it's 100 your fault either, because.

C

This is kind of this is what happens sometimes, when you have sort of more committee design and.

C

So many different um opinions and you're trying to figure out how to appease all of those opinions.

C

And so I think what you end up with is a very safe fine design. That could be more interesting. um You.

C

Know no, you don't want to go too far because of my you know freak out somebody else so.

C

Yeah, that's really all I have to say: okay.

L

I think it fits in, I think, they've done a nice job to.

L

Adjust the mass like we've asked, especially on the maplewood or the.

L

Entrance from the pond.

L

And I think you've added some interest with the glass towers and.

L

Some of the out that makes it look different, so I'm in general I'm pleased, I think, okay.

E

I'm sorry, I would toss the whole thing in the trash we've made. It.

E

So safe we've pushed you to make this so safe that this premier location on the pond.

E

The main entrance across from the north side, the first building you see, is absolutely brick.

E

And and and square windows, no signature features nothing that pops to the eye. It's 60 feet tall. It.

E

I'm sorry and- and I think to some extent the the committee has um in trying to make it look.

E

Like the rest of portsmouth, we've forced you to give us something. That's less than I know you can.

E

Do and if, if I had been able to get behind a building of this mass, I would have wanted.

E

You to make something spectacular, but I can't get behind the mass, so I can't encourage you to.

E

Make something spectacular because I can't have a spectacular mass of this size if you brought.

E

Me a spectacular building that was smaller in mass. I would be right there with you this.

E

To me is just putting a bunch of bricks and windows, very tall building with.

E

Nothing special about it in a premier location and I'm just I'm very disappointed.

I

Thank you um I'll agree with um commissioner ryan's comments. um I do think it needs some.

I

It's very safe, it needs some character. It needs something to define to make this. You know one.

I

Reigns f, you know like it doesn't, compare to anything else. I mean, like you, remember it. You take.

I

A picture with your mother in front of it um I know, that's not you know, obviously, those buildings.

I

Are harder to produce? You know that's, um but yeah, there's something like I mean he mentioned.

I

Like a coin or an arch or something to you, know signify, even it could be some old story of the.

I

History that was there before this building. um You know people love that stuff in portsmouth.

I

But I mean it is very safe. um I mean, I think, we've improved the entrances a little bit they're more.

I

Defined you can tell, and on the mixed use, building that there are three different separate uses there.

I

It doesn't look like it's just three different entrances to one big restaurant or one big.

I

So it's much more communicates that much more better but well. I think.

G

Sometimes safe is okay and I'm just going to say why I'm going to say that.

G

Because when you look at the especially the mixed use, building, um we have it's essentially.

G

uh 2.0, it's essentially a three-story building or even better. Yet we can look at.

G

I think yeah well 2.2 as well, but if you look at 2.0 it's a three-story building, which I think.

G

uh The simple architecture really complements that, and I think that the recess balconies are going to.

G

Add character that you're, that will be.

G

I think if you try to get too complicated with other things and you have recess balconies and.

G

You have three floors and four for your step back and so forth. All of that I think, begs for simpler.

G

um A simpler uh expression in the facade so that all of the volumes uh sort of feel good together.

G

um And I think that's why a lot of traditionalists and I sort of do stand in both courts depending on.

G

My client and their wishes, um but I think that the base on this um is not really being done.

G

Is this rendering and the you know, the the pre-design sort of expression is not.

G

You're not going to be fully appreciating how beautiful that's going to be.

G

In real life, when it's built and the bricks are dark and the frames are dark and it's all.

G

That glass, this is still a work session right, yeah, okay, so I just wanted to give you you're.

A

You're, offending and rationalizing at this point we're giving you our opinions, because that's why.

A

Just giving you a quick simple can be good thing, and also um I have a few opinions. Oh yes, right.

A

um So I agree with martin that details need to be placed on probably the the mixed use. Building at.

A

The front on maplewood on the on the large canopy, possibly framing them in something that resembles.

A

The period of the train station, etc, in other words, some dark metal around it. That has some.

A

Details in it would would mix with this building quite well. What page are you 2.1.

G

A

Got it quickly, besides doing that,.

A

So I agree that those canopies I mean those are your basic airport canopies. Those are the ones.

A

That are on the new uh peas trade terminal that you know. Like we've already said, um this is the.

A

Premier location, you guys have got it so love it. You know, and I I don't have any problem with the.

A

Mixed-Use building, as far as the windows and the brick etc. I I like the fact that you've used.

A

Cast stone, or whatever, for your lentils and your sills to me that pushes it up a step, you.

A

Know because much cheaper brick building doesn't have that and then obviously it could have been.

A

All ethos, if this wasn't a historic district, you know and uh well it could have been. You see.

A

And then, with all kinds of fake spanish details on that or something going to the site.

A

Wherever it is appendix.

A

A

It doesn't say that I'm sure that's what I'm looking for and it says on 4.4.

A

This is what bothers me, and I just watched.

A

A chronicle, and lo and behold they had the show, was about east boston and the development that.

A

They gave down there east boston, where they built a lot of large buildings, hotels and.

A

Residential structures with the idea of similar waterfront parks and a boat launching ramp.

A

And all this stuff, and then they interviewed the residents of this place.

A

And lo and behold, the boat launching ramp and all that never came and the parks have been a disaster.

A

You know they're just a mess so but that's in east boston, which I know is a pretty tough place.

A

um So what I, what I'm seeing here, is optional reconstructed timber, pier.

A

Going over and then optional kayak launch ramp going over. I want that part of the project and.

K

That's how it was approved with the planning board, so that's. I had that note last time that we were.

K

Supposed to delete optional and I apologize that is not optional. That is part of the approval.

K

Planning board has beat you to the punch, so you can rest assured. I hate that no, you could laugh.

K

As carlos said, we hadn't updated these this appendage page. I'm certainly glad that they.

A

Saw that, because that bothered me that's like something that you know the whole place.

K

I think nick can attest that we've spent a lot of time on that pier and.

K

We were in favor of it. We got some pushback from conservation commission.

D

And so we sort of put it to a question and we put it to the question with the planning board and.

K

Everyone said: no, we want it and we're committed to it. We're committed to the access, the greenway and.

K

The access to the pond, so it would be good to get a detail for that yeah in this material. You know.

A

Thank you very much, that's it for me, then. um So if there's nobody else, I'll open it up to the public.

A

Yeah one more quickie- um I typically never do this, but I'm I'm this close to not.

D

Approving this and if you would like carla just add some architecture I'll be there.

D

I'll I'll support this, but for right now it's just sort of vanilla, let's throw some stuff on.

D

Top of it and and make some architecture here, we're this close and, and we want to get there.

A

All right heartfelt comment: yes shared yeah alrighty, um so the public. Thank you.

M

Good evening elizabeth brader property owner 159 mcdonald street, I sent a list in my letter of a.

M

Comparison of may to june- and I agree with all of you- that it has become really plain. I think.

M

They worked hard to make everybody happy, and now it's plain, but I was in hanover. I.

M

Didn't have time to have it printed out, so I brought my lovely cell phone that my children.

M

Have showed me how to use- and they have a lovely brick building there, which I'd be happy to show.

M

Carla, because she's the one who can decide well, you guys can all look at it. If I'm allowed.

M

So it's a five story: it's in hanover and then it drops down. If I can get that hanover and.

K

Yeah hanover new hampshire and then it drops down all the way to two stories. It's all brick.

M

But see how they did the entrances, you know what I mean and then they have. This entrance is recessed.

A

Around and has a thing and their front has instead of having.

M

Those windows that open they created an actual open space underneath. Oh, I see that, would you.

M

Like to see that I'm sure it would so yeah we can, we can look at it. We do have okay you're on a time.

F

Constraint, we do have time constraints I'll. Look it up here. Okay, it's the hand over hannah moran.

M

I don't know the address, I was there. I took the picture. Sorry I can say don't.

I

Tell anyone I sent it to nick for an example of something else, so um I was curious about how.

M

Far the setback sack looking at 2.1, one of the sides I mean 2.0. They show the setbacks for the.

M

Entrances and on one they show windows. But then, when you come to the front of the building.

M

That one shows the windows on the left side, but when you get to the front, it's not wide enough to.

M

Get windows so it makes me think those setbacks are different widths. So how far do the setbacks.

M

Go is kind of a question that came to mind. I like the fact that they turn the balconies from.

M

White to green, I think it really makes the it takes away from the busyness of the balconies.

M

The top floor of the hotel windows originally had.

M

Like a they were black with, I think they were black. Let me make sure.

C

They yeah they were black with a white like casement around them. I guess it wasn't real. It was.

M

Like thin trim and I found that to be a little bit more interesting than the flat right against the.

M

Top um I like the windows on the upstairs terrace. I do worry about it because sound reflects off the.

M

Water, although people who don't live there, don't know this. But if you put something up high and.

M

Then you have a lot of people up there and even if they're chatting the people on the other side.

M

Of the pond can hear it, so there might be need to be some limitations on that and they see it.

M

Looks like when you look at 2.6, it looks like the building got slightly enlarged on that top floor.

M

So before it had like a little setback for that top floor, and now it's been filled all the way.

M

Into the side, so those were some questions that I kind of had. Did I go too fast for you, carla? No.

G

No, I'm I'm not sure what the area is, but on here, okay, keep going; okay! That's it that's good! Thank.

A

You very much you're welcome. I did a speedy speed, so I think that you have seen that um in general.

A

We're favorable would like to see a bit more interest in the buildings to reflect the place.

A

That they are in yes what we are all going to call the most valuable piece of land in portsmouth.

A

You know seriously and my concern of the pierre has been done. I'm also concerned with your.

A

Material choice, I'm thinking these are five; six story: five story, buildings, vinyl and aluminum. I.

A

Don't know I just don't think so. These are buildings that are supposed to be permanent.

A

So uh I'm going to come back for another or do you: where do you want to be and we'll.

G

uh Continue and talk to the team and see where we're at all right. So we need a motion for.

C

That we continue to continue this work session to next video july, 2nd all right. All those in favor.

A

Aye, thank you very much. Thank you wasn't so bad was I no and how have you done? Ty.

A

Did pretty well good? Thank you. Thank you. Thank karen. You want to have a chair.

A

um Work session requested by one market square llc owner for property located at one congress street.

A

Wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure.

A

Repair and upgrade building facades along congress and high street and new construction to.

A

An existing structure replace rear, shed additions with a new four to five story edition, as per plans.

A

On file in the planning department said, property is shown on assessment map 1-17 as lot 14 and 15.

A

And lies within character, district 4 character, district 5 and the downtown overlay and historic.

A

District welcome hello, thank you for having us back again. Tracy kozak architects, here with the.

H

Owners mark mcnabb and marie modi of mcnabb properties representing one market square llc.

H

So, let's see picking up on where we left off okay, we made a few changes.

H

Yes, you did I'm glad you noticed.

H

Smooth things out a little bit, keep going. um We well we'll just go through the.

H

Drawings, I suppose, are there any changes to the front. The facades on the congress.

H

Just some details on congress street we um did some more refinement of the.

H

Replicated window heads on the second floor of three congress: no changes on one congress.

B

And they brought, I think you said you brought that in because.

B

Of returning the coins yeah, there was a discussion about it's so busy with all the victorian coins.

H

But um and- and we have pictures of that on page two that shows the original configuration.

H

In 1860, that was the style. That was the thing, and um that was the so-called opera house right, no.

H

This is facing uh popovers right on congress street. It's it's a.

C

Yeah, it's that second one in from, but john you're right, there's also coins on the opera house, yeah.

H

So um and then boy they really glopped over that building, didn't they for a small building. It's.

H

Interesting to see how these buildings changed over time and and then the one to the right of.

H

It is how it was in 1930 and 1940. in that window. uh Transom with the casements below, are what we're.

H

Trying to bring back to that second story level, we're not proposing going all the.

H

Way back to just the three double hungs on that level, because we want to keep the light.

H

So, um but what they lost at that time was the coining it. It went through three or four major.

H

Renovations, when the bank building on the corner, that's there now was built. They wanted to upgrade.

H

So they replaced their wooden storefront with a more ornate cast iron storefront. That is mostly.

H

Still there, thankfully, and then in the 40s, they changed the windows, like you see here and then in.

H

The 80s they tore those out in what you see today is there, which are one over one sashes, um there's.

H

No trim at all it's pretty bland, so, okay, that's all um we're doing on the front on congress street.

H

I brought some more photos of the photo. The photos below that were the dolphin.

H

Hotel that showed the drop off area for the vehicles in front.

H

Details of the opera house: that's a great picture of the chimney being held up by a 4x4.

A

You know there are far too many photos like that in the afternoon, all neighborhoods, as you know, on.

H

The next page page 3 403, so it's hard to see the tops of buildings from the street on these narrow.

H

Roads and I took most of these from the top of the parking garage because there I don't think people.

H

Could remember in their head without being there? What's on the top floors of these buildings and.

H

uh To the right you see the funky glass skywall, I guess I'll call it with the copper fins and the.

H

Pointy dormers to the left, that is on our building, that we're renovating the opera house is in the.

H

Foreground on the um bottom left is the top floor of the pierce block and it has the rounded dormers.

H

And in between that spans, a glass wall with a pipe rail, basically and then there's a bit of a sloped.

H

Insert copper roof on top of that and that pretty much runs down the whole of high street.

H

All right um elevations so on the left congress street, as we talked about there, are some details.

H

Of the stained glass transom that we are bringing back from the 1930s 1940s era,.

H

We uh slightly adjusted the flanking roofs on the side of the.

H

New dormer we're proposing on top it comes all the way down.

H

Previously we'd held it back a couple of feet, but now it's engaged as it is currently.

H

Those are the only changes on those pages.

H

No changes on that page demolition roof plan is essentially the same.

N

Same the difference on this first floor plan is that we made the drop off shallower. It had eroded.

H

Into the building further and we've tried to make it as shallow as possible, while still working so.

H

And- and we brought the sidewalk in along with it, so that essentially becomes a recess storefront. So.

H

Pedestrians can walk along high street and then they can yep scoop into the building.

H

Enjoy the retail restaurants in there and the life and walk back out. That's also the drop-off.

H

Parking level has not changed and demo elevations have not changed.

H

We just talked about that: okay high street. um These are most of the changes here and, let's see.

A

It's totally roaming around 422, 422 422.

H

So we adjusted a number of things um most notably the corner glass element is rounded instead of.

H

Triangular, we scooped it up at the bottom and shrunk it down on top and simplified. It.

B

And that'll be truly uh curved glass that won't be.

F

Beautiful we uh we raised the header on the arcade, we enlarged the second floor windows in height.

H

We adjusted the third floor windows in height so that they better align.

H

With the fenestration on the old buildings left before they had all been exactly the same, so it's.

H

A subtle difference, but I think it adds a lot of scale and it ties back to the old building.

H

We now have inline casement windows, so they're not protruding on a point.

H

That sticks out beyond the hill. It's just uh parallel to the plane of the building.

H

The uh upper floor, mansard glass, is the same, but the.

H

Fins in between them, we call them buttresses. They actually are structural.

H

Elements we reduce those in height by a third, so they're flattened out quite a bit.

H

The marquee over the opera house entry- that's the main entrance to the building.

H

We wanted to make sure it was not overpowered.

H

By the building's other side, it's such a tiny little building. It's super special, so.

H

We we just increased that radius a slight amount, you won't see it in the 2d drawings, but.

H

It's it does not protrude any further than the new awning we're proposing on the new building.

H

But before uh it was only out about a foot or so so it was um perhaps hard to find the entrance.

H

And also last last time we made this big change, uh which I don't I'm not sure if it was realized, but.

H

We we moved the entire edition back away from high street 18 inches, and that was one of the.

H

Very first comments from the first work session is: um isn't this too close to the street or you.

H

Know you're blocking the view of the opera house, so we push it all back so that when you're coming.

H

From lad street or haven, that corner is proud of that little jewel box of the opera house and you.

H

Can see it, we also push the elevator stair towers to the far back of the building, so the skyline is.

H

Not interrupted that that arch, that beautiful arch uh cornice on top of that opera house is is pure.

H

And it will be experienced from the street level. What are those windows up there? If that's a stair.

A

Tower or whatever that's set way back yeah, that's back! You won't see that from the street.

E

Thank you trace, yeah, okay, this isn't a bleak view from the corner and the only reason we're.

H

Showing this is so that you can appreciate the existing architecture on one congress street in.

H

That really funky sky window, it's actually a transom dormer and it scoops. It goes way.

H

Above the roof line- and there are trans windows facing west that bring light in from the back.

H

As well as the skywall windows on on the bottom of it facing high street, those are original to.

H

The building and it's such a special story about how this building was used, photography.

H

It was used for a photography studio and it was all about light, and how do you get light.

H

Into this special space- and it just tells a story about how this building was used over.

H

Over in history, so we don't see those, but on the back of that, you can do flying you.

H

Can see it a little bit from the top of hanover parking garage but like nowhere else.

H

Yeah, it's really neat in the space yeah. It's an amazing space, yeah yep.

H

So you know that was the inspiration to try to carry these themes of the original building. The.

H

Things that make them unique and special and define high street to to not lose that with a.

H

Generic edition that you might find on state street or anywhere else so.

H

We're trying to make this as as special and character defining as what is already there.

H

And the back alley, not particularly character defining, but it's the back alley facing.

H

um Newberry's uh plain simple: it's not really open to the public. It's a.

H

Service alley, there's a fire exit and some trash shoots for the underground dumpsters.

A

The alley that I mean the.

H

um That's showing the um yeah that's way in the future. Man.

A

I mean that's, got the serpentine almost dragon, like oh, the paving pattern, bizarro.

A

Almost like you know here, they'd be witches. Luckily, that's a planning board.

A

um Is that it would you like some questions? That's essentially, we have the 3d views.

H

um Which we like, so I hope you like them too. They show the pedestrian vantage point.

H

Which is important and then there are materials that we'd like to use in the back.

A

So are these tiles? um I see it's some kind of tile panel. Yes,.

A

Slim terracotta cladding, so these aren't. Actually these aren't tiles that are put on.

H

A building- it's not so the upper bottom floor is granite uh floors. Two and three.

H

We're proposing uh glazed terracotta tile, it was, I think it was used recently on the 111.

H

Maplewood project, but that was not glaze, it's just raw terracotta. This would have a glaze on it to.

H

Be a little bit more sympathetic to the surroundings, make it a little softer.

A

I mean this one thing looks like armor or something oh yeah, the shiny one, we're not.

H

Doing the shiny one, um the the samples on sheet 441 in the middle, it's kind of.

H

A neutral we call it a tea with milk, it's a neutral, putty color.

H

Well, you know part of that comes from this was the style of uh one congress? Is it's kind of victorian.

H

Romanesque, it's it has a blend of both and at that period of time it was drawing influences.

H

From from british architecture- and um they had a lot of similar features such as the dormers.

H

And the brickwork and the brownstone trim, so they they use this a bit over there and.

H

It seems to work really well as it plays with the adjacent red clay, brick.

A

It reminds me of that historic building, slough house in london, slow horses, never mind any.

F

Comments from anybody, brian uh yeah, I would thank you for bringing back the pedestrian experience.

D

Right on high street that I was worried about lost with the it's too late, but the uh I think he got a.

D

Good balance now I think, there's pedestrian and you can still drive in and drop off.

D

I think that uh you pulled it off quite well, um and I think the the corner tower is a little less.

D

Artistic and more architectural and you can walk under it. I think that's great. I think everyone.

D

Can experience it now, instead of it being like a little a little interior sort of dead, end space.

D

And I you know this building is dynamic and exciting and it's fun and I think that's.

D

Everything that I think will add to the success of this building. I do.

D

Miss the corner- I know some someone's going to kick me for saying this, but I do miss those.

D

Corner windows- maybe you can bring them back just in like uh sparingly in just a couple places.

D

Like uh if you look at high street there's that uh that little recess, maybe you can bring them.

D

Back there, it's just that. I I still think the building's very successful. That's just.

D

That's just an opinion about those um yeah. I think it's it's you don't. I like this.

C

I agree, I even agree with the windows. I think that um I'm again, I think I think you've had.

C

Such a really interesting design earlier on and then again our committee is pushing you.

C

More towards the safer blander stuff- and I think that's what's happened here, um but it's it's not.

C

Bad, it's not boring or bland. Yet so don't please don't go anywhere having hard work. No, I I was.

F

You know I'm very pleased, obviously with the the um historic buildings what you're doing is.

C

Is really wonderful and lovely, and I think that even the the um dormer that you're putting on.

C

In front of um three congress street, I think it it works. It's all going to be really really lovely.

C

The new building and back all the changes that you've made setting the new.

C

um Building back a little bit really highlighting the opera house, I think.

C

Is going to be really successful, um I've always thought that the.

C

This third fl sorry fourth floor sort of skylight dormer things is going to be really exciting. I.

C

Think it really works well with this fantastic, unique, historic feature on the first building and.

C

Working on that, I think, is a no-brainer just you know taking that and and pulling it through.

C

I do also miss these sort of these corner windows. I think it's you know. These are.

C

It's a new building, you're looking for new ways to express some historic.

C

Features which is what these casements are, and it would have been, I think, a really interesting.

C

Thing and really would have drawn the eye back into this, like tiny little street, that there's.

C

Not nobody goes back, there hangs back out. Obviously it's just a parking lot um and.

C

So this would be a big improvement and a really interesting um uh difference with this very plain.

C

Parking garage, you know just that contrast, so I think the I think that this glass corner is.

C

Interesting, but I think that you could probably make it more interesting.

C

um It seems a little bit out of place now, whereas the sort of more angular shape. I.

C

Thought actually fit with what you were trying to do with this new building. So.

C

Otherwise, I'm excited to see how it will continue to evolve.

L

I just like to echo that bringing that building back just a little bit.

L

And accentuating the opera house is amazing and it has made a huge difference and and.

L

Brought the basically the three buildings together, um I like the roundness of the corner.

L

Reminds me of a lighthouse which I thought fit in better than with the.

L

The louvre pyramid, or whatever you were doing before sorry, you have to go with the round. One.

L

But but I'm I'm really impressed in uh how you bought the sidewalk back. Allow the street to.

L

Be a street again and yet still have the openings for the course. I'm really happy.

E

um I really like what you've done with the corner. I think that.

E

Simplifying it has made it stronger, and so it sits really well on the corner. I think it now.

E

Because you've simplified that it's given you the opportunity to maybe go a little bit more crazy.

E

With the windows, so I think what you had before was too much and and now you have the opportunity.

E

To bring back some of that uniqueness in the windows.

E

Because you've been able to simplify and give us a nice strong corner, um I do have a question on 4.33.

E

The dormer window- that's showing on free congress, is that is that an older version where it's set.

E

Further back because you said something about pulling it forward, um no, the actual.

H

You know, I think.

H

And these are both up to date, the the dormer itself did not change. It was the uh roof to the.

H

Sides of it, the the sloped roofs that comes down to the cornice flanking the dormer. We had that.

H

Previously, it was cut a little further back from the dormer, and now it's hugging it tighter.

E

I know I know that this is not 4.33 is not how most people will see.

E

This but there's something about it being set back and those cheek walls, so tight to me makes.

E

It look very it compared to what's to the right of it where that's very up front sticks out it to me.

E

There's a really big contrast that, for some reason, feels a little uncomfortable, but I also know.

E

That this is not the angle, that's it. The picture picture really. Does this injustice on on that yeah.

E

um So I would encourage you to take a look at freeing freeing the windows, whether it's.

E

What you had before, or some other version, I think you now have license to play with that.

I

Thank you. um I think this is very special. I think there's a lot of character, defining.

I

Characteristics in this, um I really like that. We're celebrating the opera house- I really like.

I

That we're celebrating the photography, studio and everything and then we're kind of taking that old.

I

Historic theme and making it modern, you know we're not telling a fake story, we're keeping the old.

I

Story and then we're doing something modern we're building like we would build today. um I like that.

I

um The corner, I like the corners, very strong. I did like the old one as well. I don't know if I.

I

Like the old one, just because we're comparing it to the steeple of the church, you know, and it was.

I

Kind of like matching, um so I keep wanting to do that just because we were doing it before. I think.

I

But I think this one is still strong enough and it you know I mean that kind of has its own strength.

I

um And I do like that. um The haven court in the high street will be give kind of that pedestrian.

I

Feel but still allow a car to access it. um We have the same kind of feel down on siri street. You know.

I

Where it's very pedestrian friendly, every now and again a car will, you know, come down very slowly.

I

Kind of you know kind of parting, the seas, um but I think that fits. I think that works all right.

F

Thank you, okay. So everyone has said what I would have said, but I'm going to make an impassioned.

F

Plea to leave these windows that you have to me. These are very parisian. I think it works really.

F

Nice in the building- and it's not over the top, it's it it's. Those are windows that everyone.

F

Understands- and it just looks to me so serene that I I think it's it's not competing with the.

F

Front buildings: I like that, what you've done with the glass on the corner and then you've done it.

F

Again on haven court with another interpretation of that, but again none of it is over the top.

F

It's not trying to win anyone over with some particular architectural detail. I think it's.

F

I think it's good, I like it but leave the windows. So I'm just going to make a comment. I agree with.

A

Karen, please leave those I mean we're not trying to make this. um You know this is not the move here.

A

This is not uh guggenheim or something. You know. This is a small hotel in the back street here.

A

You've done made it a very tasteful and I think I'm very happy with the way that it is right now.

A

That's it for me great, thank you all right. What about the materials um we have some slate on.

H

The roof, the granite terracotta um sort of a bronze uh anodized bronze finish on the middle.

H

As it looks, you know I forgot to put this in here, but the glass so there's the green glass that.

H

Oh, how could I not have that sample? It's called dichroic glass, it's the coolest thing. It does.

H

It just has a bit of a coating on it that refracts light as you move, so um it's kind of subtle. It's.

H

Not like a big stained glass mosaic, but as you walk past it, it might change subtly from a blue.

H

To a green to a purple, depending on how the light refracts, through this glass, we can bring.

H

Some samples next time that would be cool, yeah yeah. I know they make paint colors like that.

A

Yeah yeah interesting all right, um so is anybody in the public like to speak about this project.

M

Property owner 159 mcdonough street first I'd like to apologize to all of you.

M

And I had already apologized to the architect about my ineffective communication. Last at the.

M

Last meeting regarding this thing- and I allowed my frustration to get the better of me, so I do.

M

Want to apologize, I have been on vacation, so I'm doing a lot better. um I'd like it. If.

M

You could bring up the front of the building if you're able to nick the the this type of picture.

M

Anger street congress straight yeah 2.1. Do you know what number it is tracy 4 2.43.

M

So I love everything about this. The only thing I don't like is the thing on the left. I don't know.

M

What it's called that sticks out underneath the sky, the the dormer? I think that the all the window.

M

Detail that's going to be put into that window and the left side. I don't know what anything's called.

M

The left side, where the bricks kind of come in, I feel strongly that that thing across the top.

M

It's the corner, it's the quartus, but it sticks out, but I really feel it takes away from all.

M

The detail in that dormer and when you sit across the street from it, that's what you're going to see.

M

So that's existing yeah on the flat on the other side, yeah yeah, you can see it in the photo.

M

We're not touching that you're, not touching it we're just restoring it.

H

It is unusually large it's not. It does seem strange for for portsmouth. It sticks out about.

H

Three feet and it has these super heavy corals, and maybe it's the dormer that makes your eye go.

M

Up there, but the dormer is beautiful, I think, and that piece kind of takes away from it. So that's.

M

My two cents on the front um on the back. I like the fact that you changed the windows.

M

To a more european style, if you want to call it that I, like the new corner thing, it is kind.

M

Of modern looking, but I think it's been toned down substantially from what was there. I like.

M

The fact that the bottom is open and the top you can stand up there and look out. I like that.

M

I don't particularly care for the white that runs along there on the left side, but it doesn't.

M

Run on the right, it almost steals the show- and I have concerns about the sheen on that terracotta.

M

Slim care cut, I looked it up online and looked at the different colors they have and the different.

M

Sheens they have the sheen that's presented in this picture seems very, very shiny um and I feel.

M

Strongly that when you stand, this is where you're gonna stand. When you come out of the back of the.

M

Garage and it almost takes away from the.

M

From the north church, because it's it seems like it's going to be really bright.

M

That's just from my perspective, it almost has to me like a movie theater type, look.

M

um And I was curious about whether the elevator could be moved inside.

M

Closer to where your drop off is so that I'm not an architect or an engineer, but.

M

If you think about it, if you could drop off the cars and then the valleys could immediately.

M

Park the cars into that without having to go out and around because that's what's being.

M

Presented is that they're going to pull up on high street underneath and then the valet is.

M

Going to take them out and drive down hanover, I mean haven court just that quarter of that two.

M

Things and two where the person in the blue is that's where the in for the elevator is so I don't.

M

Know if there's a way to make that differently, but that would be just a suggestion. Yeah and that's.

M

Pretty much it for me. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, you got somebody online uh bill. Downing.

B

You can speak bill, hello, everyone. Can you hear me okay yep, so I just want to say thank you very.

O

Much to mark and his group really like the the roof line, it's really getting old to see these.

N

Boxy buildings with flat roofs so mark thanks so much. I think the courtyard with the circular.

O

Rings in the back is excellent and at the end of the day, I just believe this property will enhance.

O

And not detract from our integrity, so I think it looks great. Thank you very much thanks bill.

D

That's it that's it alrighty! So we've heard from the public and come back next.

B

Month, I think we're right we'd like to go for a public hearing, yeah yeah, okay, so we're done.

F

Thank you very much great. Thank you all right.

I

Then, until nick and I congratulations on getting top ten.

I

Yes and the track championship yeah, that's awesome.

A

You see everything I do. I saw that too and forgot about it. Yeah yeah, I coached him at football.

A

Work session requested by 445 marcy street llc owner for property located at 445 marcy street.

A

Wherein permission is requested to allow the construction of a new single family residence.

A

With the as for plans on file in the planning department,.

A

Said property is shown on assessment map. 101 is lot three and lies within the general residence b.

A

And the historic districts hi there, tracy kozak architects here with the owner property owners.

H

And applicants, jim and gail sanders we're back um all right. So uh this is our fourth work session.

H

Sports we reduced the height and width of the front gable on prey street. We adjusted the.

H

Corresponding round windows details trim, we reduce the scope of the solar array and we change to an.

H

Inline shallow profile, we have some more detail on the roofing and materials and some additional.

H

Views and uh comparisons. So that's where we're at happy to take you through the package.

A

Okay, good comments seriously: she's told us what she's reduced and.

C

H

We reduced the overall height of the building by about three feet.

H

This time we reduced only the front gable height, we took it in a foot, a foot and a.

H

Half on either side and then we kept the pitch at 12 12, so that lowered the pitch.

H

About a foot and change maybe two feet: the main ridge that goes across the back.

H

Is the same? It's just that front gable, piece that we reduced.

H

And the rest is materials and detailing and getting it all to mesh.

B

Everybody's got it yeah involved. um We did look at a comparison of the massing of the.

H

Surroundings again that keeps coming up. So it's here on page 20., um we are eight feet shorter than.

H

The house on the corner of prey and mercy: it's it's um it's bigger than the candy shop. It is.

H

It is bigger than some of the small houses to the south. uh It is, um uh it is about.

H

Average, if you take all the big houses to the north and the small houses to the left,.

H

The footprint is roughly about 250 square feet, bigger than an average of the neighborhood.

H

But the coverage, because it's such a big lot- is about seven percent less than the surrounding.

H

Parcels so all in all, the density of this parcel is less than the surroundings and.

H

It we believe we truly believe it fits ah there. We go so see for yourself, everybody can look at.

A

But you want to this it in 3d.

A

Might as well look at it cost the city a lot of money.

H

It's also worth noting the two corner porches, so there's one on the front.

H

By the front door on prairie street and then there's a private back porch for the residents.

H

And the porches are important um to this sort of a new interpretation of a shingle style, queen anne.

H

Style and porches were a big element in at that time period when, when this vernacular vernacular.

H

Was developed to um it was a place where people could could sit on on their stoop and say hello to.

H

People going by, and that is an inherent value with the applicant. They want their home to be welcoming.

H

And to really embrace community- and I think it's also important just with the goal of.

H

Sustainability and resilience in this challenging site where we're in a flood zone- and we can't do.

H

A basement and we're in the neighborhood that the flood emergency plan says just evacuate. We don't.

H

Think that's necessary. We think that by not only having a sustainable energy, efficient, building.

H

Things like porches: they they help strengthen the sense of community and neighbors.

H

Helping neighbors- and it's just um a motif, you see on the style of buildings that we're drawing.

H

Reference from so it's important element, so if there is a flood, everybody gathers on the top.

G

So this is the house where all the infrastructure is is above. There's.

H

No basement so they will be they'll, be running, uh they'll, be cooking dinner and.

H

Full full steam ahead.

A

Anybody else where we haven't gone around yet.

L

My biggest concern was the overwhelming size facing the small houses on prairie street and.

L

I think you did a great job bringing that dormer down on one of these shots. You had a closer neck.

L

You can actually see now that the size is not so overwhelming, so there's two smaller houses.

L

Yeah, that's a good one, so that's a nice job on the dormer. I I think hopefully it'll make the.

L

Neighbors feel a lot better, too shadows and and what they have to look at, and I love porches, never.

L

Complained about forces. I also want to point out that we we located us on the parcel so directly.

H

Across from praise street there's a opening of green space between two houses- that's where this.

H

House is so we try to be sensitive to the massing across the street. I think he did a great job.

L

I

No, I think my biggest concern too was the messing or the you know. Just this being a lot larger than.

I

All the other old houses in the neighborhood, but I think you've demonstrated- I understand the lot.

I

Is a lot bigger, um so I think you've demonstrated that and that it's 10 percent average smaller than.

I

Density-Wise after the lot and the fact that you've brought it down three feet,.

I

And then reduced that dormer as well, um because I do understand the concerns of.

I

The neighbors and stuff regarding sunlight views all that kind of thing, um but I think this works.

C

I'll just say that I still think that it's.

C

An interesting and successful design taking a lot of um historic.

C

References and aspects of the surrounding houses, but putting it into an obviously modern design.

C

So that it fits in, but it's not pretending to be a historic house. So I appreciate that.

I

Yeah as well, I'm glad we're not building it making it look like it's been there for 200.

I

Years, you know and trying to tell a fake story all right. Anyone else.

A

um Should I open this up to the public, does everyone have a chance.

A

Okay, I'm going to open this up to the public and.

A

Ask for anyone to come up and speak.

N

Ask the commission's indulgence: my name is mark mendenberg.

N

I I would like to speak afterwards, but I wanted to say that the neighborhood as such uh has very.

N

Strong feelings about this, quite contrary to the opinions we're hearing now we want to be.

N

Very supportive of the sanders right to build a house here and enjoy it and be our neighbors.

N

But we are rather disturbed by the current design and we have been from the beginning.

N

So some people are going to come up we're going to express human emotion, we're not at all concerned.

N

About uh we're not in any way trying to cause trouble with our neighbors, who will be have.

N

Been here longer than we will some of us and we'll be here a long time all of you, but we're.

N

We have strong emotions about it right. We have put our lives into these historic homes.

N

And we feel that this home does not fit the character of the neighborhood and we.

N

Realize that's a subjective judgment um that putting pieces of the house.

N

Together, putting elements of all our houses together does not make this a house that.

N

Ensures the historic character of it. You have to remember the level of detail that we have to.

N

Adhere to to maintain our houses right, we're not allowed to do anything with these houses. It's.

N

Not accurate, and that puts a huge burden and also creates a lot of love for the homes that we have.

N

Right, so that's where the emotions coming from and I'm going to leave it there.

N

Thank you going to bring the bring the neighborhood all right.

A

We don't run on a motion up here.

A

No no clear facts, so um susan mcdougall 39 praise street. Just beyond this on the left.

F

Yes, thank you, um I'm remembering, being here and you're talking um quite a long time about the wood.

F

Framed windows that you insisted on putting my pudding in my house and you said people walk right.

F

By your house they're right up close to it, so it really matters what this.

F

Looks like so speaking, I mean that just kind of um follows mark in that um we have. I mean this.

F

Isn't really a it's almost a lane? um I walked down mcdonough street today, and that is um that's at.

F

Least three times the size of this, and if you go all the way down width of it and you go all the.

F

Way down to the end of mcdonald's street, there's a brand new big tall house at the corner and facing.

F

It on the north side along the railroad tracks and I'm sorry I don't remember the intersection road.

F

Is a row of houses that are about the same scale, so I was looking at the same thing happening.

F

On mcdonough street that is apparently happening here and I'll just go back to.

F

What I said at the beginning, when I spoke to you and sent a letter to you about.

F

Mass about mass and- and I appreciate the architects and the owners attempt to reduce.

F

The height of this building, but mass, I believe, is height times depth times width and this appears to.

F

Be a very big lot. It is by square footage, but its buildable footprint is very small.

F

So the desire of the owners to have a big house on what appeared to be a very big buildable lot.

F

Kind of aren't jiving you're trying to fit a very big vision into what really isn't a very.

F

Big buildable lot, there's a small buildable footprint and that has been acknowledged by.

F

The architect, it's been acknowledged in the soil stuff, it floods on the other side, forcing them to.

F

Put this desire to have a big house into a very small buildable footprint, so it shoves right up.

F

Against prey street, so I I don't believe if it's your guidelines for amassing um nor for scale for.

F

Breaking it up or any of those things I mentioned my first letter, so thank you very much. Thank you.

A

A

Don't forget to give your name, I will just a minute.

P

I just need a minute sorry.

P

um I will get this together, I'm up here as a resident. I very much very much like jim and gail and I'm so.

P

Sorry this is not easy to be up here, because this has nothing to do with gail and jim.

P

um Why don't you start something easy sally? I live at 17 praise street and um I've been in.

P

The area since the 70s I've graduated- I remember you- know candy shop, the ice cream store being here.

P

Graduating high school know that this area was not a great area that we lived in.

P

Today and there's been a lot of improvements, um love the yard. I've always always always known that.

P

There would be something I remember jim talking to us and saying you know that you guys would like to.

P

Build they're very, very happy to have you be um neighbors friends. um We've always been welcomed.

P

Into our home- and you always will be um and you'll be near your grandkids right, so I guess a couple.

P

Comments I have and again this is nothing personal, but it is also things that um bruce my husband and.

P

I have had to deal with uh with the htc and things that we've had to deal with our homes and and in.

P

Keeping you know, there's things that we've had to comply to, uh not that things that we want things.

P

That we wanted to change, but we couldn't because htc didn't allow it and we had to keep our house.

P

In keeping with what the area and the homes are, and um I don't need to go into the particulars.

P

But it's obviously a very old house and um we've had to abide by some some rules and part of that.

P

Is keeping with the historical area, um the house? I appreciate that it's been reduced in height.

P

If you look at the average telephone pole height, that's around the same height of what the house is.

P

Historically, is it in keeping I'm not an expert, but if you look at the house, I don't know if, on.

P

Your 3d drawing you have of the top of partridge and marcy. That's the pink house. It's on the other.

P

Side, that's prey, so if you go off to the right, do you have? I know you have michelle's house.

P

In the corner so yeah that pink house that's right there, maybe you guys know or don't know, but that.

P

Was redone in the 1980s, I'm sorry 1990s, it shows the character and keeping of the neighborhood.

P

So the other thing I wanted to talk about uh is the solar panels. I understand that.

P

They're on there, um maybe you can point out on your drawings, where those are planning to be.

F

uh Do you have one of those uh yep so they're on the back slope of the main ridge which.

H

Faces the points on, can you put the points around it here, hang on above that back porch between the.

H

Chimney and the back porch here, yeah right there, okay, so my comment about that. um I don't know.

P

Of a single home that I've even seen that has solar panels, I know that they are great to have.

P

I don't see how the hdc would allow that I mean I couldn't we got fined, having our chimney put up on.

P

Replacing our chimney, so how can we have solar panels? I know it's great for the environment.

P

But it's really not in keeping with the hdc. If you look at all of the other homes in the area.

P

And then the last comment I wanted to make well, I actually have two questions before I have my last.

P

Comment: the first question on the drawings here on your 3d drawings. um I don't see the.

P

Fence that is currently located between jim and gail's house proposed in mrs sanders house jim's.

P

Mother's house, could you point that out? Please? Yes, it's probably not here. Sorry, it's probably.

B

Not shown because the data wasn't collected by the city, this is the city's model with their building.

B

The only thing they contributed to what you're seeing on the screen is the building itself. Okay,.

P

So could you tell us and tracy how far the end of the houses to where the the current existing.

P

uh Fences that divides between their lot and mrs sanders lots sure. um There's a couple.

H

Drawings, you could go to h-31, um I don't have any of your drawings, so maybe you can okay. Thank you.

H

There's probably a dimension so yeah. If there isn't a cycling that shows it there.

F

Age 31, you can't click over to that.

H

I think that's still not going to be that helpful, it's not to mention, but it's shown in plan on.

H

H12 yeah, if you go to the controller, show here, it's roughly 10 or 11 feet from the property line.

H

There's a 10 foot setback, so it has to be a minimum of 10 feet and we're a little bit more.

H

Than that right, because it appears, if you look on the drawing it appears very close to the property.

P

Line of where the house, where jim was born on partridge street, so it's more than a setback.

P

That's required, I I don't know about the setbacks. I'm just trying to get a visual of space-wise so.

P

You're saying it's ten feet: five feet eight feet: yeah. If you go to sheet eight h31, can you show it.

P

Sorry, I don't have any drawings, so I can't see you can see this they're all online too. So you.

B

Will be able to get them you'll be able to get all that you can get all this right now on the website.

P

That's okay, but can you just tell us tracy if you have the drawings, can you tell us how far they did.

P

11 feet 10 feet, 6 11 feet the distance, that's fine and then the other question I had um how far is.

P

The distance of the house on your plot, tracy, uh to the actual, where the grass meets the pavement.

P

On prairie street the front setback is, I don't know it's, but it's not the front of the house.

P

Though, right because you're on partridge street, uh the front of the house is on praise street.

P

Okay, but your driveway's on partridge street, the driveway, is on the back of the house. Yes, so from.

P

The partridge from the praise street home, where it ends and where the grass.

P

Meets the pavement, how much how many feet do you have the front setback is.

H

A couple of three, I don't think I have that exact measurement, um probably like five.

B

Feet five feet: ish yeah, so five feet from the grass where the pavement meets to the.

P

uh The home more from yeah, I believe that grass ends with the property line, but it looks.

H

Which is roughly the edge of payment, so art is the- and I have a point to all of this, but.

P

um Is the current fence? That's there planned to stay, or is it planned to re.

P

uh Be removed, uh it would be replaced with a new fence in the same location. uh Yes, okay. I.

H

Would say: you're, five to six feet off the edge of pavement, there's at least 12 to 18 inches of grass.

B

Right in the right of way, there's maybe 12 inches from the grass to the pavement to where the fence.

P

Is today yeah? Sorry, I wasn't speaking to the fence just because I know you want to know and and it's.

B

Reasonable to want to know where the face of the house is in relation to the edge of pavement yeah.

B

I'm going to guess it's closer to six feet than five based on what I'm seeing here, closer up. Okay,.

B

Some of that grass is in the city right away. That's important, yeah! No! I just.

P

So I will tell you, um you may or may not know that the width of prey street is 14 feet wide.

P

And the average cars my car is seven feet wide. My husband's is eight feet wide, um so getting down.

P

Is tough but um more importantly, since your house is going to be directly across from our driveway.

P

um We practically bump up against that current fence today, so to even I have to do a four-point.

P

Turn to get out of our driveway just into that road if our driveway has two cars in it. So that's.

P

Something to consider uh for the length of the home that you have to the end of the road, because.

P

um And just saying it's it's extremely difficult today, I'm not sure if this is the correct board.

A

That you should be doing I'm talking about the size of your house and excuse me, mass of it so.

P

I'm just saying that, just in keeping of what the neighbors are and trying to, I obviously don't.

P

Want to go up and hit their house right. No, so I'm just just stating that sort of the same situation.

P

Yeah, so so, overall, I guess in closing um I mean I could talk about the shadows and all that kind of.

P

Stuff but and give you pictures, but but basically the point that I want to leave you with is that.

P

I don't feel that the home is in keeping historically, especially with the solar panels.

P

Because again, there are no other solar panels and it's not in any historic district home around.

P

The other point is that the historicalness of the house versus all of the other homes on prey.

P

And partridge, especially if the house is the front of the house, is on praise street.

P

And then the last point is that again, this is absolutely nothing personal, really care about.

P

Jim and gail and their family, and very much look for them to be our neighbors and.

P

Guests always have been, and always will be, so that's it. Thank you. Thank you.

F

John eberlein 454 marcy street real quick on note nick, you said the models were available.

F

On the city's website, fortunately, the link to 445 goes to one congress street. We couldn't see that.

L

I just follow up on point that sally just made about the solar panels. In my letter I laid out.

F

An alternative which is group net metering, which I think is much more appropriate for houses in the.

F

Historic district: you can get the same net zero effect that tracy is trying to achieve for this.

F

Home by working with an off-site solar array that is outside of the historic district and.

F

Will not conflict with historic character, the homes? Those are my comments. Thank you.

N

Now, if I may I'll come on the record officially this time, my name is mark mendenberg.

N

I live at 437 marcy, which is the victorian that's at the bottom of the screen. um It's interesting.

N

I think what you're hearing expressed particularly from sally is, is not anger and not a sense that.

N

This house, that there shouldn't be a house here, what we're feeling is grief that the.

N

Historic nature of the district will no longer be intact when this house is built. That's what we're.

N

Feeling we are invested deeply in the historic district and its integrity, and we feel that I mean.

N

We know that tracy is capable of great architecture right, we've all been studying.

N

Now we're know none of us architects. We've watched the work we've watched, the commission.

N

Recent you know not that long ago, I think it's 93 pleasant.

N

Tracy was able to come up with a design that satisfied everyone. She does stellar work.

N

Our concern is that, in that this is not the best work out of this team. Some of us are willing this.

N

Is really going on a limb? Some of us are willing to contribute towards the architectural cost.

N

In order to help come up with a design that will truly enhance the character of this neighborhood.

N

And not in our, in our view, change it for the next century that we will all look at this.

N

Building everyone who will come to this neighborhood will look at this building.

N

Not the ones that are truly historic and that will define that will define the neighborhood it's in a.

N

Sense, the meeting house right- it's the it's where the church would go in the center of the green.

N

So excuse me, I'm a little grieving too actually and I haven't even lived in the district that long.

N

For sally, you grew up here, it's very difficult for us.

N

A design that was- and I heard, and I heard one of the commissioners say we we don't, you know we.

N

Don't want to build a house that is will be viewed by others as as, if it's historic, but it's really a.

N

Fake and yet there's something between that right, there can be a revival of a traditional style.

N

That no one will have to say it's a fake. You know it's not really historic, but that.

N

Will be so in keeping with the the sensibility that we have of what the historic district is.

N

That we can all honor it right. We can all come to view it as something that's really beautiful.

N

And I'm just afraid that for those of us who look at this right, we we live right here. This is these.

N

Are our homes right we're not walking through I'm, not just walking through casually right.

N

I spent my life here sally and bruce spend their life in this house from 17. You need the microphone.

N

But I'm trying to express what grief feels like yeah right, it's it's and it's real for.

N

Us and we've devoted our lives to this, and we look to the historic commission.

N

As the keeper of this tradition, right above all, you're the you have the power to do this.

N

And we're willing to contribute financially we're willing to contribute, as neighbors.

N

We want only the best for the sanders and we want the best for the neighborhood and if tracy could.

N

Put her best work forward, which I've seen at 93, I mean just to watch what she's able to do.

N

To to go to that level of designing something that will really honor any of the historic traditions.

N

It doesn't matter what it is. It could be a colonial revival. It could be anything that that.

N

Meets the program that the sanders need, but please draw something and and and approve something that.

N

Enhances the character of the neighborhood, I none of us want it, because it's subjective, none of us.

N

Want to say, you know what it is that bothers us about it, because immediately you would say.

N

It's just our bias. What we're trying to say is and that's why we keep talking about massing.

N

Because when you look at historic designs that have had to address massing in urban areas in the.

N

Past- and this is why I'm kind of you know, tracy's abilities here- that they've they've dealt with.

N

Massing problems, you know even our house, which is even this. You know the one we keep pointing.

N

To that 437 marcy that queen anne it is, it is built in a way that everyone feels is graceful.

N

And that is set back in ways that doesn't disturb any of the neighbors.

N

And that's really what we're looking for is to design something with that historical grace.

N

Of any period, we don't care that has addressed massing, the sense of something that looms over us.

N

Dominates the landscape, and yet is really not historic at all.

N

I'll yield- and I'm sorry I talked so much, but we we're sincere about this folks- we're not.

N

The ones and your sincerity yeah we're we're we're we're we're. We look to you and we used.

A

To live there, okay and you get it, and this is and we're powerless right, which is the other feeling.

N

We will live with this well you're, not powerless, because you've gotten your comments out. Yes,.

N

That's good, but if they're, if they're, not if they're not heard and responded to, then.

N

We have no recourse either we live with it and grieve every day or we have to sell and none of.

N

Us really want to do that. Thank you for your time, yeah. You have any questions for us, sir.

E

I'd like to make comment when the public is done. Okay, anyone else in the public.

N

The public used to get a comment, okay. So what what I'm hearing is that.

E

The the tension between a modern building in on a big lot in an area surrounded by.

E

Old houses, small lots, uh delicate profiles, um yet we don't want to create a fake house.

E

A fake historic house on the space, so you know how do we? How do we reconcile that.

E

Tim, can you find the big dutch coin house it's to the left, there's a really big one with the.

B

Sloping room the older one yeah, the cambril yeah. I don't know if it's in the model- okay, so yeah.

E

The gambrell that I'm thinking of tracy, you know the house something the captain salter it's. It is.

H

It's a big house, it doesn't happen to my to my non-architectural non-trained architectural. I.

E

It's because the house has relatively simple lines that the you know: there's not a lot.

E

Of gables there's not a lot of um porches, there's not a lot of this, and that the sim.

E

The lines are very simple and very straight, and I don't know if your design tracy, which has this.

E

Garage sitting out this way and a curve this way and a thing over there is push, is created by the.

E

By the buildable, the shape of the buildable land- and I think what the people are are expressing.

E

The neighbors are expressing, is this very complex, non-traditional form shape size of, what's being.

E

Proposed with the shapes, the forms that exist in the area and if there were some way to take.

E

The form, a different form that meets the massing needs of the sanders house.

E

Their their personal needs, it would make the house look simpler and therefore less massive.

E

I'm just trying to create a solution that might reconcile these. Thank you. Okay, all righty.

A

um John, could I make it quick? Please we've spent a lot of time on this. One though go ahead, just go.

A

Ahead, martin, okay, I I agree: there's 200 too much too much contemporary too much massing. It's to.

D

Me it was groundhog days we're back to the same project and it's only been dialed back slightly.

D

The materials are too different from what's there.

D

Solar panels, I won't support so that, in brief, I can't support it because we're making little baby.

D

Steps and retreat from so from some of the issues that are problem problematic with this project, so.

D

Go ahead! John, okay! um I guess that's it! Oh excuse me I'll just say I grew up in this neighborhood.

I

As well, my parents still live over there. My father actually grew up in this neighborhood.

I

um This actually is where I used to play wiffleball if you get the trees as a home, run.

I

But I also instead sensitive of you know in 200 years from now, are we going to celebrate.

I

This building and be like oh, this was built 200 years ago. You know these other buildings.

I

Around it were built 400 years ago, and you don't want to lie, you know, I don't want to not know what.

I

Year this building is built then again, there's also you want to it to fit into the fabric. The.

I

Historic fabric, which I understand you don't want it to be a sore thumb, you don't want it to.

I

Completely not fit, um but that's the fine, I think that's the hard balance here is that we're trying.

I

To find okay, I'm going to add one last comment: I live on a little lane, pickering street and one of.

L

The defects of the historic district is: what do you do with a non-historic house that lands there.

L

And there's one on the corner of our house, built in the 1930s or 40s that they've solar, paneled.

L

It doesn't change our houses, it doesn't change our historic when people walk down our street.

L

We call the swedish embassy, they pass the swedish embassy and they see all the history. That's there.

L

But you know when you have that empty lot. You have that non-conforming house, you can't.

L

Keep it out um it's a tough one yeah. So if I may well I'm sorry, but I feel we need just a.

H

Quick opportunity to respond, I live in the neighborhood very well and twice the.

H

Butters have mentioned and referred to this space as their village green.

H

This is what they're grieving they're losing open space, and anybody would feel the same way.

H

We have broken down the mass and lowered the height of the building, so it is average.

H

With the whole neighborhood, it is not bigger, it's not smaller, it is average.

H

It is drawing from references of the shingle queen and style. It is not.

H

Drawing from the federal style, so that would be a completely different design motif. uh I.

H

Understand it's a change all righty, so I'm going to close this hearing, everyone has had a chance.

A

To speak, and um we would like to come back for public hearing yeah, you want to come back for a.

H

Public hearing, then, I guess we're done here. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time.

A

Is everybody set for another one or yeah go forward.

A

Are we going? Can we take a break after this one we'll take a break after this one.

A

Okay work session old business d, requested by mill pond view llc owner for property located at 179.

A

Pleasant street, wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure.

A

Minor demolition, new construction, restoration and renovation of the accessory structures.

A

And the annex of the main home as per plans on file in the planning department, said property.

A

Shown on assessor map, 108 is lot, 15 lies within mixed research, office and historic district.

A

Back again, yeah.

F

It's fine, okay,.

F

Good evening, good evening, good evening,.

A

Kind of like your old house on the union street, you need to read it out. It did you. Do it.

G

Okay, I can introduce myself uh carla goodnight from cj architects here.

G

With jake weeder, also from cj and david calkins representing the owner.

G

We are here tonight to look at potential massing and historic precedent for building style.

G

For the 179 pleasant street, um we're one of the things I'd like to start off with is.

G

The views of the site, the especially behind the connector building uh behind the carriage house in.

G

The backyard um and, if you I'm just gonna sort of I mean we've seen all this contact stuff right, but.

G

We we've added pictures of from the surrounding properties and really the visibility of the back.

G

Lot is almost non-existent, so uh what we're trying to do is take most of the owner's wish list and.

G

Put it back in that area so that we can preserve the carriage house and the connector piece.

G

We found has been largely comprised of reclaimed, re-cut repositioned lumber, so there's not a lot.

G

Left there, but the carriage house is in fairly good condition. It does have a lot of original.

G

Aspects: members on the interior so um dave the second floor. Apparently this flooring was removed.

G

Which was disastrous but um we're trying to restore and rebuild the first floor so.

A

Dave can tell you quickly his plan for the carriage house, um not unlike the.

G

Captain's house, you know getting it all back up and running so yeah. I don't know that I'd make.

O

The statement that it's in good condition per se but um dave is also the contractor, and I also had.

O

Yeah, I can run back through the dates if the um commission so chooses, but basically.

O

The carriage house still has 1784 structure, which is the top half of the carriage house.

O

The floor system and the roof same uh joinery same size, members, lettered, et cetera, et cetera,.

O

There are parts you know just like the rest of the property that have been cut.

O

Have been repurposed trusses have been made, but 85 of that structure is still there anything below.

O

The floor system is gone. It's completely gone has been gone since about the 1960s.

O

So the intent is to, as I think, I've described it top hat the carriage house. We would cut.

O

Just below the floor system lift that off and save that it would take some temporary.

O

Shuring, but lift it off with a crane, save it at that point, that's the only way to access.

O

The the footing, the foundation for it, the side, if we're looking at the carriage house, the right hand.

O

Side, the original wall system is bearing grade and they put a one-sided wall on the inside of it.

O

So the the structure below the floor system is a total disaster in the carriage house, but there's.

O

No real original anything inside there, so we recognize the importance and the significance.

O

Of the top of that and we we intend to save that now, moving from the carriage house back towards.

O

The annex the connecting structures, as I stated in our last work session, we believe we've dated.

O

Most of that to 1903, when mark wentworth passed it on his daughter susan, who had it until 1940.

O

Some original members in there that have been repurposed, but it's a hodgepodge not unlike.

O

What you've seen at the property, so um what we're prepared to show you tonight is some.

O

Massing studies and some designs that we've worked with the clients that.

O

We're looking to use in that space so right! So if we uh move on to page 1.1, you can see that.

G

Basically, jake was kind enough to go skulking around every area of there and was able to.

G

Determine that the visibility is extremely low in all of those areas, and then you had, we had touched.

G

On this last time, the owners would really like to add this uh level of expansion on that second.

G

uh Like an extra half story on the connector piece- and I think that the question here is that.

G

Given that it is historically appropriate, we can see it everywhere in portsmouth that that.

G

Not everywhere, but we see a significant number of examples that um this is an appropriate treatment.

G

Is it appropriate? I believe it is appropriate on this site because it is a similar.

G

Time period and so forth, and I believe that the.

G

History, the piece that is there now is there's almost nothing that is left of that uh original.

G

uh uh Massing or volume um and in contrast to the carriage house and the mansion house, which are.

G

You know viable savable original objects that we are very carefully.

G

Doing that saving forget what you're getting we want to put this on so and we're.

G

All right- and we heard that at the last meeting the arches may or may not be appropriate, so.

G

Right, so uh what we'd like to do is take a quick look at well. You can see the uh styles.

G

Have been documented so looking at 3.0, uh we just have a look at what is there now and a.

G

Look at previously approved just for record and when you look at 3.1 you can see that.

G

We can skip to 3.1 3.1. We have a proposed option uh with the we have several.

G

um We have two things going on here: the carriage house we're proposing, in addition off the back.

G

Of the carriage house, with e, with a pitched roof or a flat roof, that is more dormer style.

G

Because I didn't know what would be, I wanted to have a discussion with you about whether the.

G

Shed slash flat roof would be more appropriate or more pleasing than the pitched form, and then the.

G

The other piece is, should we we had talked about having the front of the connector, the horizontal.

G

uh The longer piece come up straight and then go back, or should it just be set back more like some.

G

Of these photos, so we have a couple of options: a lot bringing it up to the front or setting it back.

G

And um you know shedding off the back. So that's what we're looking at so.

A

Is that when I kept, I kept going back and forth between a and b and.

A

The only thing I could see is that the fact that you have it set back the second floor right.

A

From the front view, I'm talking about I'm not talking right, I still I don't. I don't know what.

A

The differences are back there right, it's either all the way up or set back um in that area, and I.

G

Think what may be a little bit sort of confusing is that in the arrow number, three we're showing.

G

The same option in uh the first a series and the different option in the b series can we go to.

G

4-0 and go through all these very nice pictures. Oh thank you and get the commission's opinion.

G

Right so 4.0 clearly shows the um setback um the set. This is what you this is the only view you.

G

Would see really so that shows the the setback roof um or the set back story, half story and.

G

Then I believe you can see just a hint around the side of um a little bit of a pitched roof on 4.0.

G

And 4.1 we're bringing it all the way front, so you don't have that extra massing.

G

uh Cut, but that is also a traditional style that you know we would be willing to look at.

G

And at this point, we're still showing the something more in keeping with the original.

G

Doors because that seemed to be you know, working with the with the whole.

A

Concept, what are you talking about? uh The the big square doors on the front.

G

Of that there's big rectilinear building. Yes, are they fake doors? uh No, yes! No! The one on the right.

G

um Is possibly going to be the one in the center is not but they're not going to be used as garages.

A

The garage is on the right right, those would just be indoor outdoor spaces, potentially.

G

We're still getting the volume together so that we can then finalize the plan. So.

G

uh 4.2 um again just shows the you know: there's no real difference in a flat roof on the back.

G

As far as you know, that goes and uh 4.3 so there's just snow, so there's no difference.

G

No, no um and then, if you go to 4.4, you can see we're tipping up uh more of an aerial view which.

G

Is you can't see from anywhere, but you get an idea of um you know the carriage house restored and the.

G

Roof coming off the back being more of a pitched form off the back of the carriage house carriage.

G

House and you can see a slight hint of the great room that is proposed to be coming off of the.

G

The back side of the horizontal piece and sorry about that.

G

And 4.5 also the aerial view.

G

Showing them showing it pushed forward, I mean this changes are so subtle that it's kind of you know.

G

But it's, it is a significant change um and then in 4.6 we have just sort of gone with a more flat.

G

Roof on the back side and again pulling it forward with a flat roof and then coming around 4.8.

G

We're looking at a proposed great room on extending out into the backyard which.

G

This is the first time you can even see any of this is turning this page, and this.

G

Gives you a better view of the pitched option for the carriage house extension.

G

And the centered uh half story over the connector piece and then.

G

4.9 again pushes that volume forward very slight change. 410 shows you the flat roof.

G

And 411 shows you the flat roof with it pushed forward, which is all very, very minor.

G

Changes um also in some height, do you prefer? What um what would you prefer.

O

Truthfully, uh 4-8, I think, is a really.

O

It's hard, I'm not the architect. Obviously it's hard separating these roofs and we understand.

O

The importance of keeping certain structures subordinate to the other ones, the carriage.

O

House is the anchor on this side of the property. The connecting building as it stands now is, is.

O

I'm just going to say it low and useless and so being able to bring that up. We understand.

O

Being able to bring that up, but still maintain sort of that subservient lineage as it steps.

O

Down and then steps down into what is now the dog trot connector. We still keep that low and.

O

Then it steps back up to the annex, so the short answer is not a huge fan of the big flat roof.

O

On the back of the carriage house, I think some pitch there is healthy for the property overall.

O

I think 4.8 does a really nice job of keeping the roof lines clean and.

O

Subservient, I'm also a big fan of. Let me just get to the right one. I think it's four point.

O

Well, for 4.4, I don't know if it's the right back one, but I like to step back there again. I think it.

O

Helps keep the structure defined and, in all honesty, we know that the carriage house is.

O

The same vintage as the mansion, the kitchen l, was removed, which is original so now we're discussing.

O

The annex which we dated 1860 somewhere on there we're discussing these connecting structures that.

O

That weren't 1784 so we're trying to walk that balance of what's appropriate and also what.

O

Right, no, I think we need to have five margo. You might as well start. I agree 4.8.

C

It's important for that connector piece to keep the idea that it had a and a lower roof line and.

E

So so putting something on top of it! That's set back and is a little bit smaller keeps that that.

C

That massing, that that visual, that it's got, that sort of lower.

C

First, eve line all right, hip roof was good. I prefer that over the flat roof, okay.

I

I agree with both those comments. I think the 1a.

I

Shows it's subservient. You know it doesn't have this big wall um that the bee has more of.

I

And I know the back that back roof. No one will see perhaps, except for the neighbors.

I

The butters, but I do agree with you that the hip proof is better, and I agree also with those cars.

F

Okay, this is not our purview, but is this landscape just so that we can clearly see the building or.

E

Are you planning to denude the property and take all the trees down? Oh sorry! Well, no, the trees. If I.

G

Put the trees in, we wouldn't see anything, it was a gorgeous. You could take them out, so we could just.

E

See that right, thank you. I just was imagining this on pleasant street and thinking no. No, there will.

O

Be extensive landscaping, but but the trees will be in the trees will remain there. There's two trees.

O

There's a giant tree in the front there's a historically significant tree.

O

On the langdon side that will stay okay, and I just wanted to be sure.

A

We don't have any pictures of it, but can you talk about this great room? uh It is on the.

G

It's on uh four point: nine, no great yeah with the arches with our friends; yes right, yes, just hard to.

A

Make out what it, um what the roof shape or what it is what's on the back of it right right, you don't.

G

Have that right, we're not ready for it yeah a little bit if you're curious about roofing angles,.

F

A little clearer, 3.1 and 1a option 1a does a fairly decent job of.

O

Expressing what those roof lines would look like and truthfully one b keeps the symmetry on the.

O

Front that I I think we all just said, is important, so one a one b could be um could be discussed.

I

Wow yep seriously a1a does have that.

I

The dormer on this it doesn't go all the way to the end of the building. So there's a little.

B

It also goes to the back building wall yeah, which is why the tie-in is different of the grapes.

A

Even more yeah, how does that tie into the into the less many less um less uh whatever options.

G

Next time so it'll be very clear what it is we're looking at instead of different ways of several.

G

Options when we get to that we'll get to that. Okay, what materials are looking on the great room.

O

Yeah some stone, but otherwise it will be uh wooden, clapper, stone and clapboard mix.

O

Similar to everything that stone on the bottom, so it's yeah, that's two thirds stone one-third yeah.

B

More or less more or less yeah, as it's chimneys right, those chimneys there is that what those are.

F

Right, yeah, outdoor fireplaces or mm-hmm, yes, we're trying to move away. You know let the house stand.

G

Do something a little different, slightly different language? Let the house stand as the bricks.

I

The right way you've done the right manner. You know where the thank you.

I

um Each edition is, you can tell the story.

A

After you franchise the fairy landing and have a hundred of them throughout the country, yeah.

A

Okay, so come back with some more stuff, all right, we will thank you very much.

B

Doing oh yeah coming right back! No this on this one.

C

Yeah, okay, I know that we continue this work sessions next month, all those in favor, aye, okay,.

G

Have a um sorry, I'm taking a break.

A

Alrighty we're back from our little break and we are now old business e work session requested by.

A

Eight kph llc owner for property located at 161 deer street, wherein permission is requested to.

A

Allow the demolition of the existing structure and the new construction of a new mixed-use buildings.

A

As per plans on file in the planning department, said, property is shown on assessor map 125.

A

Is lot 17-3 lies within character, district 5 and the historic districts welcome again, yes, uh carla.

G

Goodnight cj architects, jake wieder and tom ballen, owner and developer. uh We are we've actually done.

G

Quite a bit of work on this since our last meeting, um the previous approval had a uh a ramp for.

G

Accessing the first floor, in order to pull the parking out of the uh wetlands or out of the water.

G

Table and tom has actually got some experience in coastal resiliency and in another life, so.

G

He's been doing a lot of research and working on that and prepared a presentation that the planning.

G

Board was very, very interested in so we appended it to this presentation as well, just to see just.

G

To give you a look at what things? Yes, that's why I put it in the appendix you're interested we can.

G

Absolutely give you, I still have my appendix and I would like to be happy perfect um and so.

G

Through all these studies and evaluations and moving the parking around and back and forth.

G

We were able to eliminate some of the tandem parking and drop a storefront area to the.

G

Sidewalk and omit the ramp so, um and that was just replanting, the parking layout and so forth.

G

So um I think that has been a huge victory for everyone to be able to have a street street level.

G

Entry, even though it did cost of half a roll parking spaces, it's still, I think.

G

A good a good solution, and so we did look at this massing very briefly at the last meeting.

G

So I'll just sort of skip through that as how we carved away at the volume on 2.0.

G

Now that we're rampless and uh carving away more on 2.1, uh the thing to note is that we.

G

Had we have an actual penthouse on the top floor, which brings the building height down quite a bit.

G

So we have a top floor. Penthouse set way back satisfying the requirements for a penthouse.

G

um And then 2.2, you can see the previously approved and the current massing strategy.

G

Now, moving on to 2.3, if we take that massing strategy, another step, you start to see the.

G

The volumes that are proposed for a corner element and for balcony elements and for storefront.

G

As banks of windows and just the volume how it fits in with a lot of the other neighboring.

G

Volumes, including the proposed uh project across the street and port walk and the current.

G

Buildings all either approved or proposed in that area, so I think the massing is appropriate.

G

For the surrounding buildings on 2.3 2.4 on 2.4, we start to get a little bit of a shadowy look of.

G

Some type of style that we might pursue um and a setback of the penthouse.

G

And we're looking at a uh you know: a mix of large windows, more of an industrial.

G

Expression, but with the larger recessed balcony areas and some fairly large glazed.

G

Glazed openings, as well as far as the massing goes, but a very simple form, a very industrial form. I.

G

Think industrial um in in a railway sense is what we're we're looking for here and, of course, this.

G

Is all very, very preliminary and then 2.5 the view from vaughn street we're looking to introduce some.

G

Recessed arches and maintain an arched language of some sort, as we begin to develop the project and.

G

That's that's where we are with massing at this point is the four stories and the um penthouse.

G

Giving us something mm-hmm.

F

So we're looking at a simple industrial massing as a thing we need to gather okay, I think you guys.

I

Did a great job of showing the massing compared to the surrounding properties? um You know shows.

I

It on maplewood shows it on two street. um I do like that. We're looking at going towards that.

I

Industrial look since it's right on the train track and that you know honors that history.

I

And honestly, right now the building is there. I know that, there's no view, that's being.

I

Taken away, you already can't see the water, you can't see the cemetery from there.

I

Yeah, those are the comments right now. Okay, I think this is great. I love the mass. I love.

E

The industrial element you have, but each one of the elements is graceful and strong. At the same.

E

Time they really say something the arches with the keystones. um I I really like this. Thank you.

F

Yeah I do too, um I like the the rectangular with the arches. um I'm glad you got rid of the ramp.

F

You were able to do that and even you sacrifice some parking. I think it fits the space really well.

F

I, like it thank you alrighty, so I'm very comfortable with the massing. I appreciate that.

C

From the previously approved design, you can bring the height down a bit so that it's more in it's.

C

Going to be very comparable to all the buildings, all the other buildings on the corner and.

C

So I mean I'm fully supportive of the direction oh good morning. Are we still.

D

Just talking mass, yes, okay, yeah, it's fine! uh You know I'd I'd like to see a little.

D

You know some stuffing or something uh maybe some prominence at the corner.

D

um But for now it's it's good to start. Okay, yeah right, no problems with the message. Yeah fits.

L

Yeah, I don't have any problems either so and uh I'm not sure how your arches all work into this.

A

Railroad language that you're trying to use, but I like the arches.

A

I would prefer a classic look sometime on some building. You know.

F

Good all right, it's good, though it's fine, basically just here to.

G

Gladly hear good things about massing and ready to come back and yeah. You can hit the road.

A

Is there anybody in the public that would like to speak on this building nope yep.

M

I was so excited today: elizabeth browner, property owner 159 mcdonald street.

M

I am so excited today because the public came. That's all I have to say about that. um I, like.

M

The arches too I'm getting on the bandwagon with you guys. The only thing that I'm concerned about.

M

Is that the other buildings on that corner dropped down to three stories? I'm pretty sure.

M

All three of them do just trying to remember. I haven't been down there in a little while um and.

M

Originally, when it was talked about, it was talked about to have um kind of a railway station type.

M

Feel so I like, can you go back to the picture right before that you just had it are? You are.

M

You in control of it there it is there, so you see how you made those windows kind of interesting.

M

Which gives it kind of a more modern like a larger railroad station, the railroad station that was.

M

There was smaller and originally when you had spoken about this, you talked about bringing some.

M

Of those elements from the railway station into that- and I just thought I'd remind you of that.

M

To keep that in mind that that was one of the things it's big you know, but the north end has.

M

Lots of big buildings you're coming close into the neighborhood that I'm highly protective of, but.

M

It seems big, but I think, as you come into the concept of adding.

M

Railroad things you might change that shape a little bit to a little I mean you might or.

M

You might not, I never know, but um that's that's my two cents. Thank you very much.

A

um So I guess that we are reached point where we need to have a motion to come.

A

Back with another work session, yes, very good right who moved? Second, all those in favor.

A

Railroad stuff in the world on the previous building, this is the cities.

A

That we approved here because we had exposed iron beams on the outside of it.

A

It was like steep a steam punk building.

A

So moving right along work session, requested by 43 homes, court llc, owner for property located at.

A

43 homes, court, wherein permission is requested to allow the demolition of the existing home.

A

And the new construction of a single family, home of a similar design planning department.

A

Somehow or another getting lost as per plans on file in the planning department, some property.

A

Is shown on assessment 101 as lot 14 lies within the waterfront business and the historic districts.

A

And who is presenting this brendan mcnamara, the design of the project and steve singler? Thank.

Q

um So second work session um in the interim have um since.

Q

There's a revised set of plans, which is more in keeping with the current.

Q

Gothic dormers that are there, I should uh one thing I explained about that is that they're.

Q

They're the gothic dormers are there, but there's a shed dormer that is joining between them, which is.

Q

Made necessary because I'm trying to keep the house as small as possible, so the um the.

Q

Pitching point for the rafters at the second floor level at the extreme outer edges is at five feet.

Q

So, and on to travel through the house on the outer on the southern side, I need a shed dormer to get.

Q

The headroom to come through on that side. So so that's the the only sort of generalized difference.

Q

To what's there now other than as explained it's bigger, you know by you're, going from the.

Q

Existing gable is 14 feet wide. This one is 18 feet wide, and so that's the and as the result of that.

Q

That creates the the larger volume to allow us to have the um code approvable interior spaces, so.

Q

um I think there's review it really comes down to. Can we demolish the existing house, which was then.

Q

Led to the site visit you guys when you came to see it, um it's it's in better shape than you would.

Q

Think it should be because of the dampness that exist in the basement. um It's it's actually kind.

Q

Of shocking, given how it feels how well it's held up, but it's still um and and we believe it appears.

Q

To be the case that the first floor system that we're looking at could well be to that 1749 date.

Q

But it is also of that construction style.

Q

So the beams are shallow in there. How did we get 17.49? I've got no idea near the door. Yeah.

A

Does anyone no, it was just given to us when we started without david adams. Here we just doing.

A

The survey yeah yeah, I looked up on the maps and I mean that's the portsmouth advocates surveyed.

A

Sometimes useful and sometimes not useful, you mean the one from 1990.

Q

Yeah 84., that's where that would come from, but I will say with somebody with limited knowledge.

A

That certainly, that the basement, beams, etc are definitely old and there were some round ones.

A

No bark on them, but the structure in the basement was old. When you got upstairs.

A

And the staircase was victorian in style but very steep, and there is no details.

A

Left at all, all the windows are one by four flat casings. You know they were all done over probably.

A

80 90 years ago, something like that, um so that's my report looks more like that.

Q

So it's still we we do have.

Q

We got the initial survey surface, we haven't got the detail, but so can you just give us the.

Q

Elevation and it's an annoying minimum one foot lift, but you have to go up. Yes,.

Q

I can't imagine being up six feet high or something a little house like the annoying.

Q

Thing is the lift itself. You know it's a rubicon that you've crossed that incurs an expense that.

C

I'm sorry I'm not following explain to me what.

Q

So the um it's, the house is encompassed by ae 8 flood zone, which leads to.

Q

Design flood elevation or base flood elevation of 11 being the um the lowest point that uh non-flood.

Q

Resistant materials of any kind can occur so therefore using the first floor level. Yes, that's.

C

Just any any structure or any beam that supports the first floor level has to be above that point.

Q

And also um any any mechanical requirement, that's in there needs to be above that point as well, and.

Q

It could be, you know you could sort of say, yeah, okay. Well, we could put any mechanical equipment.

Q

In another location, but all any sort of under duct work or anything like that, has to be above.

Q

That level, so, okay, so essentially the um the top of the foundation, is essentially a foot too low.

Q

The foundation itself has been, as we saw.

Q

It has different components: the original stone foundation in, for whatever reason it's not bad,.

Q

Well, they've got two zones, you know where they've chose they've done. That.

Q

Single-Sided pour against the stone foundation in the area that has the greatest head room.

Q

And then, as you move towards marty street, the ledge comes up and that's kind of like a band.

Q

In that- and they didn't do anything with that- so you've just seen the raw backside of the stones.

A

um So having driven down the street in my little teeny kia and had to do a double k, turn around.

A

To get out of that street, I'm noticing that there are indeed four houses on that street. Yes,.

A

And it's a dead end, I'm just wondering.

A

Is this going to work? Well, fortunately, it is, it means I mean the construction yeah.

Q

Oh okay well well again, fortunately, the same issue, so the singles have bought 39 as well.

Q

Oh so they have so, which house is that that's the greenhouse immediately the next one up that one so.

Q

It has the car parking space, it's a weird street, I mean they. They homes caught cuts. All those.

Q

Properties in half and and particularly 39, you know, as you come as you come down with your car.

Q

Yeah 39 house is on the left-hand side, 39 parking spaces on the right-hand side, so it goes through.

Q

It's so the intention is is um because the the expansion of the new house does bring so the face.

Q

That's on the water side is staying the same, the face. That's on the right hand. Side is staying same.

Q

Location but the house is coming towards marty street by an extra two feet. As you said, it's.

Q

You know which is putting pressure on that parking space, although, where it comes to currently there's.

Q

Like a pressure treated sort of raised bed just there, so it really kind of comes to that situation.

Q

But the intention would be that we would do an easement that would give parking for 43.

Q

On 39 opposite spaces, you know so because I think they have, like you know three or possibly.

Q

Four spaces there so so they're an easement for the parking to relieve the parking issue at.

Q

43 and lay it on to 39, although it still is going to be, I think, you're worried about.

K

Just the construction right, I guess that I'm worried about the you know essentially.

A

Why are you doing this now? Because the house we've seen the basement is, is in good shape.

A

Relatively yes, it's in the flood plain, but it is.

A

Okay, um does the basement turn into a pool now and then do we know that? Does the basement flood.

Q

You don't know that for sure it's definitely damp. It looks like it.

A

You know could, have you know it's a very damp.

A

Feeling, that's for sure, there's no tied line in there, though yeah that's generally dead.

A

Okay, I didn't see that I don't know those. These are just my comments. um Somebody else just jump.

A

In on this little house, um so the one that you said you also own is that the one directly.

I

If you're facing the water facing you're directly behind it to the left,.

I

uh Yes, you're the green one, okay, so that would be the one that you'd be encroaching like the.

I

um I know on one side of the house we're coming out just a couple feet right on the on the left.

I

Side of the house facing the water yeah, um so that would be you own that house. That would be.

I

Taking the water view from yes, correct, yeah. Well, yes, and no, but there's no view at the moment. Yeah.

I

Yeah because it's it's the houses, even the house, is there. That house looks straight on to the back.

Q

Okay, yeah and the only view is down there. Is there, you know the tree. We were talking about the tree.

Q

Yeah, there's that view passage going down the left hand, side, which that's that's the area that if you.

Q

Just say that it's taking view away from that property, it would be on the left-hand.

Q

Side because it's probably moving three feet over there, yeah um and probably it's more.

F

And that is more considerate to the fact that it's closing in that space on that side.

A

Did you do you know the house? Yes? Well, I didn't get a chance to go in and see that.

D

So I'm relying on you, john for your assessment and uh the last we had talked you you're.

D

Requesting to knock it down unless we talked it sounded like that was an acceptable deal.

D

And it sounds like it's still on the table now. Yes, that's the yeah and the issue is we're back into.

Q

The situation of being caught in the requirements of the flood zone of that, if you do any work on.

Q

It the expenditure exceeds the value and yeah and then right now the whole catch 22 is then so then,.

Q

The whole thing: it's not an issue that the stare is really steep and awkward. It's a stair that.

Q

Because the stair is not trade compliant, nor is there any actually this there wouldn't be a.

Q

Sufficient headroom at the second floor level, for it to be considered usable, except for the.

Q

Narrow bit in the middle, but you couldn't get to it because you, the stair, you couldn't have a legal.

Q

Stare to get to that point, the steps are more or less like a 10 foot step ladder, leaning against.

A

The wall yeah well, I will say that the proposed design is sensitive to to what was there and.

D

Yeah, you know, I, I think it's a wonderful little design and uh yeah. It sounds great.

L

I complained last time was it made sense to get rid of it and build again and build it higher.

L

But let's try to keep at least some of the old elements and I think you have right under two.

L

Years yep, so the new design principally and we shortened the windows too yeah principally was.

Q

The the uh putting the dormers uh back on yeah and then the other aspects were on the water side.

Q

That was a um coming off the enclosed portion- yes exactly there, so that was a five panel.

Q

Folding doors so brought it back to a three panel folding doors, but also introduced the.

Q

Lower that they weren't a full glass panel that arranged the panels to align with the side panels.

Q

And then also at the second floor level, there was originally um that was, you know french doors with.

Q

Fixed side lights- and that was just a full glass panel, so it went to single french doors put in.

Q

The um the short fractional across the top and put the windows through the side so reduce that it's.

Q

Probably a bad thing for me to do, but you're doing the blackened windows highlights the the amount of.

Q

Glass, yes, karen, so I appreciate that you want to rebuild it as it stands almost exactly like that.

F

But are we going down a slippery slope here that we have probably a lot of houses that have the.

F

Same flood issues in the south end, and are we opening up pandora's box here to just because.

F

We're in the flood zone, even though the house is perfectly good, we're going to knock it down.

F

And rebuild it well, I mean I think this came up in the last meeting to a degree and I I think.

B

What I was suggesting, whether you were here or not, is that I have a hard time believing this is.

B

Going to be a necessary outcome for the lion's share of the houses in the south end, god forbid.

B

Right just so, I have the same sentiment. You do, I think, what's more important in.

B

Their presentation is to stress less the code, because there's flexibility in the code.

B

In interpreting for a historic structure, how much of it needs to come into compliance? If you lift it.

B

And because there's uncertainty you can certainly imagine on that side of the table that it won't be.

B

You know pleasant experience, so you've got to remove the house because every the stairs are.

B

Out of code everything's out of code in respect to the new code, but um just like other jurisdictions,.

B

In charleston they're lifting houses uh now regularly norfolk virginia for the same reasons.

B

But they are not trashing the house in order to do it. I think these, I think your core argument rather.

B

Than that be the lead, is you need this house to do what you want it to do and you're trying to do.

B

This in a really respectful manner, I mean I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but you.

B

Know you've been here before when david witham did the one on south mill street and and essentially.

B

Put a replica in for the house that was removed there uh that that's the direction you're headed.

B

And I think that's the the the honest way to present it, um not that it's dishonest, but I.

B

Think the the flood is sec, the flooding issues and the insurance and the code. They are problematic.

B

But I wouldn't overplay them or we're all finished here, uh because they'll be tearing everything down.

Q

I would um most of the the stuff that I come to you guys with represents a relatively.

Q

Small amount of the work that I actually do, the majority of the work I do is personal homes along.

Q

New hampshire and southern maine coast and sadly do run against the flood issue a number of times.

Q

And it can be very draconian and it does, it does depend the issue that really comes up.

Q

Is that there's a federal law, but it's actually administered by the local building official, so it.

Q

Really comes down to the local building official as an example, I've done a lot of stuff in rye.

Q

And the local buildings official is very draconian as to how he chooses to apply the federal law.

Q

I'm confident that's not going to happen here and I'm also confident that many of the jurisdictions.

B

Or locations you're working or not in historic districts and that's a.

A

Big difference in terms of the interpretation of the code we have nick here, yes forget nick.

Q

Going back to the other, so at the moment so steve's parents are in there yeah and um who.

Q

Are elderly um and uh well all of us, um steve's, obviously not as elderly, as for his father, but.

Q

It's in his future, um so any development on the house, sorry, but we have to accept it- is that.

Q

Is at the moment so they can't go upstairs so they've they've created their bedroom in. What's.

Q

Essentially, the living room of the house, um which you know it'll, be okay for summer, but um steve has.

Q

Longer-Term durability, interests in the house, I guess if the lawn hadn't have been so good. I could.

A

See you know the machines down there digging new foundations and things, but with that lawn.

F

Yeah so um and when we walk through the front room which, as you said, is being used as a bedroom.

E

Yes, open directly onto this porch, it was basically there isn't a porch as a separate.

E

Porch, they joined the yeah, they knocked the wall down and it was subsumed into the road. Is this.

E

A porch porch, or is this an extension of that front room the way you have this designed.

Q

I'm not too sure about this, how to describe it it on the appearance on the outside. It is.

Q

An enclosed porch, but it's fully integrated into the house, okay, so from an interior point of view,.

Q

You wouldn't be aware that it's a porch, you know because the ceiling would run out.

Q

To the rare window, so so internally, it's it's fully incorporated, but from externally.

Q

It's it's been delineated by the roof, because it's only it's a only converted, porch.

E

Yeah yeah, so so, if I were to see if I were to see a floor plan of this, that one that one room.

E

That one room would go all the way out to the exterior glass framing of that port.

E

Because the one there are two things that bother me about this house.

E

You're doing everything you can to to replicate it and keep it in similar to.

E

To the style, that's there right now, but the loss of that open, porch on the side.

E

To me makes a really big change in the style of this house and.

E

Just as the glazing, I think, bothered some other people it. It really changed.

E

This from sort of delicate cottage feel to farmer. You know: enclosed farmer, porch thing.

E

And so I'm pushing back a little bit on that, because I think that this in some ways this the.

E

Success of this project is going to inform a lot of other buildings right along the waterfront and.

E

If we allow for large changes in style, when you're really just trying to save.

E

The existing house, in the best way you can we're walking a very fine line between.

E

Saving the existing structure, you can't lift it up to save it, you rebuild it to save it and.

E

Making modifications you know to what point: are you modifying it too much? I guess, is what I'm.

E

Saying anybody else well I'll. Just say that I'm sorry that I couldn't be there in person.

C

And I didn't get to see the old basement basement. That's anything that recognized.

L

In the 1700s right, so it's I mean it's hard to let go of a building that is supposedly so old, but it.

C

Does make me feel better if john says that there aren't any details left to really show for it.

C

So um and- and I just wanted to state that I'm usually the one who says no fake old buildings,.

C

You know it needs to be representative of our time. However, in this situation, where you're rebuilding.

C

Something that already exists. I think that what you have here is totally acceptable. You know if.

C

You were building on a new empty lot. I would say no, but to rebuild something.

C

This is the right approach to to really.

C

Modify what is there, you know you're, basically,.

C

Taking the essence of what is there now, but improving it and.

C

Making it to code and all these things, so I'm just stating that I don't have a problem with this.

C

I think I I agree, I think margot's comments are well taken, though, um and there is something about.

C

A porch in this location that um that is part of its character so well, I would I hate to say this.

A

But I disagree completely. We have allowed porches to be enclosed on marcy street they're, enclosed.

A

On newcastle avenue going out this house, I didn't really even know that this street was there.

A

And I've lived in this is not even praise street, and this is you know, this isn't pickering street.

A

This street is so tiny, so this house is at the end and it sits looking over the water. So.

A

Your program is to have a nice room with windows. Looking out on that beautiful view.

A

And I find it fully acceptable and you've made every effort to make this porch make it look.

A

Like a porch and anything else that you can do to make this look like a porch either windowsills.

A

Maybe you can, you know, continue windowsill around it and that sort of thing certainly helps, but.

A

Like I said, we have approved these before on old houses, and this is a new house you're trying to.

A

Replicate the look- and I I appreciate it so that's where I'm going to sit on this.

A

Okay, uh did you want to say one more just yeah I mean um it wasn't for the lack of sort of wanting.

Q

To do something you know different or unique: yes, since it is torn down, but it's just the the the.

Q

Essence of the house: that's there just kind of makes sense. You know like given the situation.

Q

And there's all you know, the last meeting of the neighbors that lived down the street were really.

Q

Concerned about you know the impeding on their view, but in actual fact it won't because it's you.

Q

Know the way it's impeding on the views on the 39 house more than anything else, so it's kind of like.

Q

Which, I think is a good thing when a historic old house actually kind of makes sense in its location.

Q

And and certainly understand the thing with the porsche, but that was you know in the effort. That's.

Q

Why there's just so much glass there's to try and make it as see-through as we possibly can.

Q

Can do it from the interior point of view, but also from the exterior point of view.

A

Okay, anybody in the public.

Q

So our reason for being here is to feel if we can move ahead with the other aspects of the approval.

Q

Process, so if, if we feel that this the demolition is acceptable to the to the board, then we will we.

Q

Will just um remember that we continue whatever we do it, but but we then go back now and be working.

Q

With the civil engineers to do the board of adjustment application and get that process.

Q

Through and then come back with that in hand to, then I understand that's good, a good way to do it.

A

So you've got our opinion. Okay! Good luck! Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.

H

Continue this yeah, do you want to come back or are you going to do a.

B

Public hearing, when you come back, yes exactly yeah, so you don't yeah we're done and also we.

Q

Will the assumption is that it's the exterior material package that you'd be very happy with.

A

Yeah no composite nozzles.

A

Thank you, okay. Thank you.

Q

Good night work sessions, new business requested by coventry, realty llc owner for property located at.

A

111 state street, wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure.

A

Replace the doors and windows and new construction to an existing structure.

A

Construct rear edition best for plans on file in the planning department that property is shown on.

A

Assessor map 107, as lock 50, lies within character, district, four historic districts, hello, again, tracy.

H

Cusack of architects with mcnabb properties. uh We are here for an addition to the back.

H

Of this building, I'm sure you're familiar with it's actually three buildings. That's dick's tv.

H

uh Most recently, mr kim's on the corner agave next to it soon to be sold. uh It's all going.

H

To function as one building and the we're here for practical reasons to add an elevator and fire exit.

H

Stair, uh which was a condition of occupancy from the building inspections department, the building.

H

Has been deemed uninhabitable on two of the three floors until we build this stair, so um that's.

H

What we'd like to save uninhabitable because of the staircases because of the egress? Yes,.

A

Yeah yeah and there's no other regret. No there's the kearney grass was was.

B

Nine inch riser heights nine inch trains 30 inches wide, the 107 side, where mr kim's was.

B

Was I'm surprised it hadn't fallen in inside? It was? The floors were two by fours two by sixes.

B

um It's the worst structure, I'd seen in my career inside once we do skinned it, and then we had the.

B

Chief building inspector in and as we agreed as we did, the renovations going from agave, which.

B

Failed in covid- and so I just took it back over to my restaurant group and we're rebranding it so.

B

They then stopped allowing which had been there for half a century. The grandfathered uses of.

B

The basement, which was support space for the restaurant, but that required two ways out and.

B

We didn't have two ways out and they also on the third floor, which was an office for the restaurant.

B

The same thing there you need two ways out and we don't have them so this came all crashing.

B

In and it was a negotiation and we we said we can cure it all. If we put an addition out back.

B

Put a brand new stair tower that goes all the way from the basement, all the way to the roof.

B

Of course, we'll make a handicap accessible at the same time,.

B

Because the building's combined, really, we have to we're more than 2500 square feet of floor.

B

Hence we're here, so it's a it's only about a 300 square foot.

B

Addition on a floor plan, it's extremely critical for the function of these buildings.

F

H

Context the edition front.

H

And currently there's a.

H

Odd assembly of falling apart wooden decks and wooden stairs and mishmash.

H

Dumpster so we'd like to propose to remove the wooden deck railing, stair and infill that gap.

H

Between the two gables between the blue and the yellow gables, is this dent um yeah? Oh, my god,.

H

Yep, um that's pretty much it. That would be the back entrance of the old red door. Correct yeah,.

I

Yeah, the the pressure treated deck that you could get in there from the red to the red door, yeah.

B

Which, as you know, code is doesn't allow it.

F

Lindsey did and then it was mr kim's second floor sitting after the red door.

B

Yeah yeah that was just high school long history to that spot. Yeah.

H

That's what's there now we'd like to remove the stair and the deck.

H

And what we propose to fill it in yeah fire, stair wow um in an elevator, a small janitor closet and.

H

Basically, a corridor to get out and then the stair has a door that goes to the outside and we're.

H

Proposing a small shed roof over that, so the snow doesn't lock the door when you push it out to exit.

H

We are proposing two uh new dormers on the chapel street side of that back.

H

Gable structure and then one new dormer on on 111 there's currently three.

H

And it looks like there should be four: there is a chimney kind of there, which is uh towards the back.

H

Which might be why they didn't do it, but um the next plan you'll see how we where's the champion.

F

Yeah the chimney is existing. Sorry, it was not on the previous drawing.

H

And that's the state street side, we would uh the elevator towards the back. There's the new dormer.

H

But also on the lower right, where mr kim's was, we would like to replace there's a.

H

Mismatch collection, there's a single door and two mismatched windows and some um simulated.

H

Fake stone that's been glued to the front and painted black we'd.

H

um We'd like to expose the original brick- that's back there if it is destroyed because of removing.

H

The fake stone we would repair the brick but um yeah we're not really falling to the fake zone and.

H

Then, to replace the mismatched door and windows with a pair of uh nano windows that.

H

Complement the one that's currently on the left at 111.

A

Okay comments: questions, oh you're, not done yet uh well, so you can see the two um chad dormer's pros.

H

On the roof that would be residential up there and that's for the purpose of getting light and.

H

Air and potential egress from that top floor and to the far right is the side. The up that goes down.

H

Sheaf street and that's the stair tower. We are limited to two stories with a gable so.

H

To get the head height at the third floor of the stair, we've put a shed dormer there.

H

And that's the sheath street elevation yep. That middle part is the is that the middle.

H

Part's, the addition is that recessed back from the existing part of the right, it is.

A

Yeah, it looks like the house is seven gables or something on the right hand, side.

A

Yeah they, I don't know why they built it that way, but that's we're not touching that. That's.

H

How it is you of course, remember jay smith right. Oh certainly, he built that back of the.

B

Two gables on the 111 side: I'm not sure what his reasoning was, but so you're turning it into one.

L

Large restaurant or one the restaurant will be the entire street level correct.

B

um Mr kim will know be one we've already broken through with the.

B

Buildings in the hallway we've done a lot merger, so there it's no longer two buildings. It's one.

B

um And then the second floors of agave will still be restaurant or that'll still be restaurant too.

L

Yeah would I connect through, I know, it'll be apartments on the instead of where the red door.

B

Was right which was second floor? Mr kim's that'll be apartment, okay and then the third floor of the.

B

Apartment: okay, um it's just too intensive of a use to have the same amount of restaurant.

B

The combination of kim and agave head so um agave, the one thing I can remember.

A

Is that that was approved with wooden sashes six over six windows up on the second and second.

A

Floor, etc and and then uh they somebody just came along and took them out and put vinyl windows in.

A

And um it was quite a surprise when was that, I don't think there was any.

A

Fight involved with it, though, I don't think that um I'm not even sure the historic I don't even.

A

Know if I was on the historic district when this happened, this is way back yeah. It had.

B

To have been because I knew this is way back 20 years ago. Yeah it wasn't, we didn't do it. Yeah.

B

I wouldn't have done vinyl trust me now if they were mahogany and they got switched, I couldn't so.

B

Quickly say I didn't do it yeah, okay, I'm I mean I'm sure you've got all new windows planned and.

A

Said, oh yeah! Oh absolutely, this whole thing it's going to be absolutely first class. Absolutely.

A

Any other comments yeah um on the edition of the dormer on state street, is that going.

F

To impact the chimney at all it will, it will not um compromise the chimney, but there will be some.

H

Flashing needed because the uh the dormer won't end. You know those are in the kind of kid.

N

Consider it considered just about anything yeah, no, it's even kind of a new roof, too. I mean.

F

It's a really interesting root pattern: yeah, when I, when I see the elevation.

B

From chapel street, I think it's really kind of cool with the two dormers and then the dormer.

B

The the cheek wall and the dormer on chief, you got a lot of roof planes. There asphalt's kind of.

B

Why not you ever been to the governor's mansion.

B

Yeah yeah, I would, I would be more likely with a simulated slate or you know something. You.

B

Know then, with a texture, yeah yeah, I don't. I don't mind that anyway and you're trying to.

B

Spend your money no um doing a good job. Anybody doing the commission want to make some comments.

E

The only the only the only negative reaction I had to this at all, because I love how you're.

E

It's very complicated and you've managed to put it all together in a way that seems to work, but the.

E

The two shed dormers on the little house on chapel street. um They bother me, uh I think, because of.

E

Because of the building they're being put on, um I would, and and in the surrounding area, shed dormers.

E

They're, usually dog house not shed, so I'm I'm torn because you have the shed over the elevator area.

E

And that makes complete sense, so in some ways it makes sense to have a shed around the corner.

E

But it's a completely different building, even though they're attached so tracy. Could you give.

E

Me some thoughts on why you chose a shed and why you chose two versus one together.

H

uh Well, one in the middle didn't provide enough daylight and egress.

H

From the living space and three seemed like too much uh and there are a ton of gables.

H

There are so many gables, it just seems simpler to do a flat shed, and I think there are some.

H

Flat shed roofs across the street at that new building that was built behind the connie b.

F

And it's new, it's not historic, but yet they exist and they're across the street. So.

E

So you didn't think about doing the exact same thing you did with the shed on the.

E

Right hand, side and take it all the way across or almost all the way across that um that would be.

H

More useful to us, if that's okay, I'd, be interested to see how that looks just because I think.

E

Simpler on that, roofline would be better and having two of them, it makes it more complicated.

E

It's rare, it's rare that I that I advocate for a larger, shed, extremely, very good. I I would.

C

Think on such a historic building, this is that in such a visible spot, I wouldn't.

C

Want to see a full like a big old dormer on that thing, because it just did you see that face.

F

But I I understand where you're going with it.

E

I think I have to see it. We can show it both ways: yeah.

F

Martin yeah, um I'm looking at the elevation or the perspective you have at the corner.

D

Of chapel and state, and it looks like you're blending the buildings together.

D

To make them all appear uniformed, you know one big building and to me I I would hope that you, I know.

D

I know you gotta, restore the corner and we're losing an entrance and- and I think that's sad.

D

That we're losing this entrance in the storefront we're losing two entrances. uh It'd be nice. If you.

D

Could keep that distinction between the buildings? uh That's probably what I was. I would hope for.

D

I think all the other gestures, all the other moves to make this a safer set of buildings uh are all.

D

Commendable and I can support, and I would just hope that we would keep those little distinct.

F

You know pieces yeah. I also had that that reaction, as I looked at it because you're kind of losing.

C

That corner building's identity yeah by taking out the entrance. um So I'm wondering you know.

C

Could you fit in? Could you keep that central door entrance which would which would keep the symmetry.

C

Of the windows above it and everything will occur, maybe never actually use it as an you know, just.

B

No, I get what you're saying. um I thought that also that was the first thing I thought when I saw.

A

This this elevation- these are clearly different buildings, but one doesn't have a door right right.

I

Yeah, I think that kind of erases that history, that that story, you know I mean where, if you.

I

Can keep the two buildings distinguished? We can still see that history, even though we can tell.

I

We've adapted it, um you know, but it's still there or not we're not erasing it. That could be a good.

B

Trade-Off we can incorporate and get a door to keep that history, but then we can get rid of.

B

The hodgepodges that got all cut in over the years, yeah storefronts and yeah yep second doors and I'd.

I

Hate to see like even the brick like you know, I mean like be fake, like so that it would all.

I

Seem like it was all done at one time. You know I'd like to see the that this was too different. Yeah.

I

Right, yeah yeah, who knows what the bricks are going to look like keep that downspout separate.

A

I

I'm glad that the on state street is set back from what is existing yeah. That makes me feel.

I

Wonderful there's no one in the online and no one in the public to speak so.

A

I guess you want to come back um well, normally, we'd be happy to come back for multiple work.

H

Sessions, but because of the urgency of the life safety issues, we'd love to come back.

H

For a public hearing, if we could or work slash public hearing just and if you do something.

B

With the door or any of these suggestions, you could easily hop into a work session at the.

B

Beginning and then go right into the hearing right, okay, that would so if you have option a.

B

And b, or something whatever you want to do with the ideas, yep, okay, all right so.

F

Thank you appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much.

D

Do you feel bad bum rushing me, uh I do yeah anything to get you going.

D

I'm considering the length of the agenda.