City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 9 Nov 2022

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 11.9.2022 Historic District Commission

Description

11.9.2022 Historic District Commission

A

All right, everybody welcome to the november 9th historic district commission meeting.

A

The board's actions in these matters have been deemed to be quasi-judicial in nature. If any.

A

Person believes any member of the board has a conflict of interest. That issue should be.

A

Raised at this point or it will be deemed waived so I'm going to make introduction.

A

um To my far right, we have joanna landis, okay and then dan brown good evening.

A

Dr martin ryan, good evening vice chair reagan, rudy good evening,.

A

um My name is john wyckoff, the chair. We have nick cracknell the assistant planner good evening.

A

um City council, member rich blaylock good evening, margo doring, hello, david adams, good.

B

Evening and alternate karen buffard good evening foreign, so we have administrative approvals.

A

We've been asked, we have a little discussion that could go on on 179, pleasant street.

A

So we're going to pull that out. Maybe we should have that after the four.

C

Are there any others? People want to pull out um yes, 111 state street. For me, okay,.

C

Any others, okay, so we're going to pull out number three and number four nick. You want.

A

To do one two and five, yes, uh number one is 338 middle street and it's a relatively simple request.

C

um There's an existing garage uh on the corner on the side street of that lot, not on middle street.

C

That has a I believe, it's a fiberglass door. They want to replace it with a new fiberglass door.

C

That has the um the lights incorporated into the upper panels of that door, and I don't know if the.

C

Applicant is here yes, somebody is here so really it was just a question in my mind as to whether.

C

That glazing pattern was appropriate for this accessory structure. Has anybody got any opinion.

C

Might as well keep going okay, let me just put them on the screen here.

C

All right, the second uh request is for 50 uh newcastle ave. I believe.

C

You know that's not showing up on the screen. It's not! Oh sorry. Thank you.

D

So 50 newcastle ave is a request to make eight miscellaneous changes to a previously approved.

C

Project this has also been constructed. All of these changes came out of the review.

C

From vincent hayes in the planning department doing the compliance check at the end of the.

C

Construction, so I don't know if you want me to go through them, but they're all relatively.

C

Minor changes, but there there are eight of them on here from the corner boards to the the side.

C

Porch columns are a little bit heavier vincent's, pretty thorough in making sure everything is.

C

Is caught in in that final review, the brick foundation veneer uh was not included.

C

And I guess the explanation on the right hand, side to the request explains why they they made.

C

The field change: where is that explanation? I don't know if amy is in the audience? Who did the.

C

Work or you are, why don't you come forward and just announce yourself, yeah introduce yourself.

E

Hey good evening, my name is tim lido, I'm the homeowner of 50, newcastle ave. um You said vincent.

E

Hayes did a, I guess, a final review. A couple weeks back, went through each side, elevation.

E

um Again that that front face um you know the original, drawing that uh amy had put together.

E

I guess included some things that weren't on the existing structure, the corner board being one of.

E

Them, uh as you can see in the original picture, it wasn't there uh before, and so it's not there now.

E

As well as the lattice uh underneath, the porch, the brick didn't carry over all the.

E

Under the porch, so basically those were two observations from vincent.

E

That were on the drawing that were not on the house. That was that face.

E

um Let's see that there's the I don't know what the next one.

E

There's the path side um over here.

A

Or I'm looking for this, you can instruct him where to go. Okay, sorry! So that's the.

E

Front face those are the two uh items. There's the pass side where the clapboard came down. I.

E

Guess a little bit below uh where it was in the original, drawing just kind of to map or match.

E

The grade so just a slight deviation from where the clapboard was drawn on the original, drawing.

E

To where it came out on the actual build again very minor detail there on the driveway side is.

E

Where you reference the brick veneer, so the new addition foundation has not been veneered yet.

E

The desire is to just have that as an option, if possible purely from a cost perspective. I don't.

E

Think you can see it from any public way, but if that is a problem or stipulation you know.

E

We're still willing to you know veneer that in the in 2023, you know kind of after the winter.

E

That's that and then the back uh the back face is the fourth obviously uh face. uh There was going to.

E

Be brick veneer on that foundation, uh exposed foundation as well, and that is stone veneer.

E

To kind of go with the uh patio, that's that's in place there, it's kind of right below right.

E

To the sides of the entry, it's kind of like a stone veneer entry again, not visible from.

E

From any place, but that is a difference, the initial drawing had brick and the.

E

In the current, build has stone, so those are the four sides in the four deviations.

F

um There were shutters, was it planned that the shutters would be removed? It.

E

Was okay and the on the back elevation? There appears to be a roof overhang.

F

Over the between the second and third floor, correct yep, I don't see that on the.

F

But I don't remember, I guess I'm having difficulty between proposed, so I see it nope. I got it. Okay,.

E

Thank you actually, but you did bring up one point that is called out that the plans had two brackets.

E

On that uh brow overhang and uh those brackets have not been installed. We, like the simplistic.

E

uh Kind of view, without them, so our desire is to keep them off as well change. I forgot.

A

Any other questions here um I would just like to say I'm a little confused with the bricks.

A

I'm looking at the driveway side, which I guess is the left proposed elevation, certainly yeah.

A

um Clap, what are the clapboards heading down all the way to grade, or are they now there's probably.

E

About I don't know, maybe two and a half feet of exposed foundation and the existing. uh You know.

E

Structure is brick. The addition obviously is, is concrete. So that's the piece in question so as.

A

Far as that window goes, where do where does the brick um there's a window in that back edition.

A

At in the basement, yes, uh brick is below that for sure clapboard and the baseboard is.

E

Below the window on that side, so the clapboards um are essentially at the level of the windowsill.

G

Nick, if you zoom in on that bottom right photo, you can see yeah.

H

At the bottom and sort of see what he's talking about, thank you.

H

The middle one shows the brick.

G

Yeah, the one on the right and you this one on the right. If you go even right, you'll see on the very.

G

Far right on the right side of that window, there's some exposed poured concrete right here. Yep.

G

Yeah, that's it yeah. You have to speak from the microphone over there. We bring.

A

It there's one portable one: you can bring over that's okay, you can do that, so it jogs.

E

Up on elevation there, so the window, as you can see below the window is siding and the.

E

Baseboard, I guess lack of better term, then there's a slight jog up on the grade side.

E

And that's the pcuc there that has exposed foundation right there, where your cursor is.

A

Yeah, that is where the stone right is, that right, yeah, this side, yeah right stone, is only right.

E

There, on kind of either side of those back uh that back door, um that side piece of exposed.

E

Foundation is where the ladder is exactly yeah, where the ladder is. That's also where the.

E

uh And the sea condensers are which will have the um privacy screen. I guess around it so.

E

But yep, I know it's um it's relatively minor, but you have to understand. uh Our point of view is.

A

Some oftentimes, when somebody says they're, going to put a brick veneer or stone veneer that makes.

A

A a difference in our decision, if, if the rest of the addition, for instance, is appropriate and.

A

But some people are a little. I don't know it's a little this or that and we're going to have brick.

A

Veneer, instead of a concrete foundation, certainly in the historic district commission, it makes it.

A

You know it really does it makes a difference and we do once we approve something like that.

A

Like to see it sure, completed, we've cleaned up all the existing brick on the existing structure.

E

So the front face, and then the kind of the 30 foot runs on each side. It was all old paint if you've.

E

Got rid of that and exposed the brick and yeah that's a good thing! So, but it's that piece that.

E

We're talking about so yeah um does anybody else have any opinions here? How do we feel about this.

A

Before because this is an administrative approval we could move on, I think most of these changes.

G

In my opinion are pretty minor yeah, I agree. Minor changes and the brick veneer will happen.

I

When that was a tbd, you just said just have it yeah his preference is not to do it yeah, but I.

F

I think it should be done. Oh I'll, just add that this is on the paper street correct this.

H

Is on the the street the walk away all the way it goes to little harbor school, correct.

H

um So it just kind of makes that one side of the the house very visible yep. You know more.

H

Like I'm very familiar with that path, that's where I learned how to ride my bike. um Sure I understand.

H

The other side, the other side, no one's going to see unless you drive unless you're visiting.

H

Your house yep, um I'm only concerned about that other side, though just because that's.

H

In front of the center I agree: yeah having his option was the preference. My wife wants the same.

E

Thing to be honest, uh so if it's a strong opinion by you all to keep that and have it be done in.

E

2023 after the winter, that's cool, nice, okay, both sides; okay, I'm sure it's a small area, so.

G

So might as well there's not many square feet, yeah, honestly, all right! It's now a stipulation.

J

Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah wake up, one more before we go and pull them out.

C

um So the brick veneer will be retained as originally approved. Okay, so the the.

C

Next, the third item is one congress and one congress. I think tracy is here, but I'll give.

C

It a shot and tracy you are here. There are, I think, 10 changes that are requested here.

C

Many I'm sure are related to the program change uh the fact that this is no longer a boutique hotel.

C

uh On the ground floor and, and maybe the whole building was, I can't remember, but it's three.

C

Different buildings, the new building and then the two existing buildings on congress and high street.

C

It's now proposed to be a mixed-use building with ground floor, restaurant or retail commercial uses.

C

Second floor, I believe our office and the upper two floors the floor and a half the third and.

C

The attic are proposed to be residentially used, they're still elevator access to the parking.

C

Garage off haven, court and what's changed here is there's no longer a need for a drive through.

C

Inside the building, uh so the street edge is a lot cleaner. The other changes there's a increase.

C

In height of 11 inches, as as I understand it, it was largely driven by the need uh to remove.

C

Internal ramps that were needed for the elevator so that it was an odd situation. They were in and.

C

Having a central core service, all three buildings and with the 11 inch or one foot shorter, building,.

C

They needed ramps inside the building on the hallways in order to make those.

C

Transitions to the elevator work, so that'll no longer be the case. It'll be a flat hallway.

C

um The elevator overrun, the stair, the stair overrun, the roof of pertinances uh have shifted.

C

A little bit to the rear, they've adjusted the roof design slightly, maybe partly because of the.

C

Mechanicals, the roof of pertinence is and the fact that they have added now, where the solar.

C

Arrays will be placed, they did talk about that and present it conceptually in the original approval.

C

They've added sconce and wall lighting in this request and they removed three of the sloped.

C

Windows in the roof, a long haven court um and I wasn't sure how that was related to the trash.

C

Room but um but maybe I read it wrong and then they've added a door uh along the haven court.

C

Facade because haven court is considered a public place. It's required every 50 feet to have an.

C

Accessible door, so there wasn't a door before and there will be now and they've made adjustments on.

C

The connector between the historic buildings and the proposed building and gone from two.

C

Single doors on high street to one I think that tracy you can add to that. If there's something.

K

Hi tracy kozak arc of architects at the public hearing where this project was approved. This.

K

There was a stipulation to provide a materials board with samples, and so I brought that.

K

um That's my only additional comment and then, if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them.

A

Is that something we could pass around or not? It's really heavy. It's really bad.

K

I could put it on the table, maybe yeah, why don't you put it on the.

K

Table yeah being careful of that microphone in the middle of course,.

C

Here, oh boy, okay, maybe I'll just nick I'll show you a closer.

K

Terracotta, this is the name cladding of the building second floor and third floor to.

K

Terracotta tile has a matte finish: the colors sand. uh This is a slate roofing. It's a natural slate.

K

A gray green weathering by vermont slate natural mill finish: copper on the we call them the little.

K

Buttresses between the slope roof sections: this is the main granite color. On the first floor of the.

K

Edition it's a carolina, coral, the darker color below, is the trim band at the very top and the.

K

Windowsills, this gray, granite at top, is for the restoration of the existing building on the corner.

K

On the first floor, storefront, this is um it's actually a very narrow transom. That goes.

K

Above the storefront windows on the first floor, it is actually transparent and it's the dichroic form.

K

That changes color, depending how you're looking at it and how the light is coming from behind.

K

um This is the composite metal panel, that is on.

K

The roof appearances and there's a recessed band of building between the opera house and the new.

K

Edition that's set back so just a few little details that are set back are the darker color.

K

I do have other colors of the terracotta if you don't like this, but this is what we showed in the.

K

Renderings great, thank you. That's a natural slate color right! This is natural. It's a natural! It's.

K

It's real, it's real sweet, the real deal, there's not a lot of it on the building, but there's some.

L

Okay, thank you. Thank you. um I I don't the siding for the second and third floor of the new building.

M

Is that terracotta, but I didn't realize that it was cord.

M

It is when you come to the window openings. What happens with the cores the.

K

There there are accessory details to turn the corner. You won't see the cut edges with the holes.

K

In it I don't have a sample with me, but we could provide a detail. There's another material that.

M

Goes up against the it's made of the same material. It's this piece of the same clay or terracotta.

K

But it's just a vertical accessory, it's a corner piece and you glue it to it. They're attached with.

K

um Aluminum skirts like z-clips that attach uh structurally to the metal framing behind it and.

M

What holds them together to what holds them to the panels? Those terracotta panels? um Well, each piece.

K

Is supported individually on its own z-clip, so the terra cotta panels aren't like glued to each other.

K

Got it yeah, there's a drainage plane behind it, so so they're they're, like two terracotta.

M

Panels butted together this right right and uh these these come in um planks almost and they're.

K

So they overlap kind of shiplap top to bottom, but when they go side to side their butt joint.

M

And what makes that waterproof, it is not. It is not meant to be waterproof. It's a rain screen.

K

So the water is assumed, it will come behind and there's a waterproof plane behind it with.

K

This you know little three-quarter inch gap to allow uh the pressure of the water hydraulic.

K

Pressure not to go into the wall by having that air gap, the water drains down by gravity.

M

Thank you, yeah. You have a pesky gravity again gravity. I don't believe in it very much.

M

Mr chairman, anyone else question martin uh tracy, the uh the very unusual product you have there.

B

That's very sparkly uh for lack of a better word. What's what's the real purpose uh for including.

B

That in this presentation and this project in this design, it came from a reference of.

K

A play of light and how light changes as you move through the space and it really started.

K

With the original medallions, the terracotta medallions on the existing building that were.

K

Opening and closing, depending on the cardinal directions, east and west, so the lotus flowers.

K

And the medallions and the dormers are open facing east and they're closed facing west. So there is an.

K

Idea about using the building kind of to orient yourself to to your surroundings, where's north.

K

Where south where's market square, where is gillies so by by using these features, that change in the.

K

Sunlight, this is where it came from we're able to take a play on light, the same play on light.

K

A new a new way of using a play it on light that already exists on the existing building.

K

And it's it's just that tiny little trim band that goes above the storefront. So it's not you.

K

Know a major part of the building, but it's just that tiny little deep detail to bring that idea.

K

Of how light changes as you move through space back into this new addition- and it's is it like.

B

A film that uh it is, I actually it looks a lot different. um I have another sample too.

A

It's a little unusual, but it's on uh top of the storefront. I think um we all have to remember.

A

That our memorial bridge can change colors at the drop of a hat at this time and frequently does so.

N

It's like my laurels. It is like a miler.

O

That's just the film and it gets laminated between two pieces of tempered glass.

B

Oh john, could I spooky.

I

Oh, I'm sorry, mario, that's, okay! um Tracy, where you filled in where the drive-through used.

F

To be yes, call it a drive-through, but um it looks like there's a very large solid panel of.

F

Granite next to a door, I'm looking nick, I think it's the very, very last image.

F

um The one that shows yeah, I'm zooming in on the middle bottom. Yes, not that so.

K

That's the trash shoot. There is a fire stair and a trash chute behind the wall.

K

And so at that particular location, we don't have the storefront. There is a single person.

K

Door to one side that doesn't really show up in that view, but you'll see it in the elevation.

K

Okay and on the I guess, it's haven court, the court side there. It is there's, there's also a.

F

Similar sort of blank- that's the same view on the bottom yeah, oh on, so that black, the black.

K

Square, what looks like a black square? uh No, I assumed that was the entrance to the garage.

F

To the right of the single door, there's also a bit of a flying space. Yes, that one yeah that's.

K

The same area I was referencing, so there's a fire stair and a trash chute behind that wall. um Then.

F

I'm okay. I see my mistake in looking at the two different views. Thank you.

D

Fingerprints yeah.

C

Don't go far, um do we want to vote on those three and then go to 111 state street, which is also a.

C

Project racing workout sure go ahead. Okay, could I have a motion on administrative approvals, one two.

A

And five and nick has stipulations yes, one um so moved with the stipulation and 50 newcastle avenue.

G

Is that the brick veneer go up at some point next year? Second, all those in favor.

A

So those three okay: let's do 111 state street.

C

111 state street is again a previously approved project. There are, I believe, nine miscellaneous.

C

Changes being requested and again once again I'll, try to quickly enumerate them and then tracy can.

C

Fill in the blanks, um I think her elevations are the best way to look at the changes.

C

Where they're all annotated there with lettering, there's.

C

A slight relocation for the the elevator overrun towards the back of the building.

C

um Which, presumably is the sheep street side? But it's not a shift to sheath street.

C

uh They've extended the porch uh over the rear entrance again, the chief street chapel street.

C

Intersection there and added a post, the roof slope uh has been adjusted along chapel street.

C

um Just going in order here in the elevations they've added, copper, gutters and downspouts to.

C

The building they have changed the three smaller third floor windows from casements to double hungs.

C

um They've raised the gable roof on the new addition at the corner of chapel and chief.

C

Street by one foot and they have shifted the location of the the nano windows along state.

C

Street on the corner, building uh further away from the door- and I think all the other views are the.

C

Same changes just from another viewpoint, pretty much but tracy you want to fill in any blanks.

A

um Do we want to look at the renderings on yeah I'll pull them up? Okay,.

K

Hi tracy kozak of architects. uh Yes, so one clarification on the roofs facing chapel street.

K

um Yep the section that clouded oval to the right, the left part of it- that is the light gray color.

K

On the previous plan, that was a flat roof and it went straight across and then when it got.

K

To the left big flat roof area, there was like a vertical parapet wall we were not able to when.

K

We got all the insulation and fire sprinklers and everything in structure all together. We.

K

Were not able to meet headroom clearance for for the egress corridor, underneath that roof.

K

So we're sloping it so it attaches from the ridge on the right to the ridge on the left. So.

K

That's the difference there, the roof on the right it. I do want to clarify just to the right of that.

K

Where the dormers are we are proposing, that is the area that is raised, one foot, so the existing.

K

Roof would be removed and rebuilt at the same slope of the same pitch. Just one foot higher.

K

Again, the ceiling height in that's existing in that part of the building is six foot two.

K

The minimum by code is seven foot six, so we're really struggling to get the whole purpose of.

K

This addition is to get a safe fire stair out the back and we're not allowed to even build it. If we.

K

Don't have seven feet six in the egress corridor. So that's why we are proposing and hoping to be.

K

Able to raise the roof, so we can get that clear: head clearance underneath the egress corridor.

K

That connects the apartments in the front to the stair in the back, the other, the four abcd.

K

Revisions are what was requested and stipulated at our last public hearing, approval um and.

K

If you have any other questions, I'm happy to answer them.

A

Dave, no I'm sorry david.

M

In a couple of different images, you have this: the corner: building the masonry corner.

M

Building appearing in different in one case as brick, it rendered as natural brick and.

M

Another case rendered as a a blue kind of an ipswich blue painted surface currently.

M

It's to my knowledge, it's black um is, is this still in motion or is.

M

This going to settle down it's an excellent question. um It's it's going to stay, painted.

K

This is going to stay painted, so that is the the renderings at the back of the package. Show.

K

The curricula of that brick, it's currently blue, we're going to keep it the same color. It was a.

K

Black, a year ago, it's been since painted blue at the bottom part at the street of.

K

Course has that fake stone, that's veneered onto it and as we discussed, we will remove.

K

The fake veneer stone and not knowing what's left behind it, uh repair the brick, replace the brick.

K

Install the new windows and the required brickwork around the front facade is really what stimulates.

M

This question, because if you're going to try to achieve a natural brick surface and that puts.

M

You into the spin of somehow matching brick, mortar joinery and all of that. Whereas if it's going to.

M

Be painted the assumption is that you'll get as close as you can and then pull out the brushes.

K

Yeah, we would leave it painted, mostly because it's been painted for so long. It can sometimes wreck.

K

Your bricks to strip the paint off so we feel it's safer to leave it. He did. Thank you very much.

A

Can I guess um we could vote on this? One yep I'll make a motion to approve, as presented.

A

All those in favor.

A

Of that thanks, okay last one 179 pleasant street um me just pull it up.

C

So carla, I think, is here if need be, but I'll do my best to be clear on what's being requested, my.

C

Understanding from the application is that the spanish black slate that was approved for the.

C

Carriage house, at the last public hearing for that portion of the project which we'll call.

C

Phase two for this, or maybe it's phase three with the the annex being phase two after the.

C

Mansion but the carriage house and the connector was approved with this uh tile. This slate tile.

C

And a sample was provided and it was approved what the applicants now requesting, given there.

C

Was a stipulation on both the mansion and the annex that was recently or is being rebuilt.

C

Is that that stipulation required the applicant to use a natural slate, presumably matching similar a.

C

Similar color to what was on the building and profile so they're, requesting that this tile.

C

For the carriage house be the same tile, it's used on the annex and the mansion is that correct, yeah.

P

I mean basically, we brought, I have the sample again if you could yeah. That would be great.

P

Approved on the carriage house, but when we started with.

P

This war entirely sure if we were going to be using faux or real and by the end of that.

P

Process, it was determined we would use real slate, okay and by the time we got through the second.

P

C

Carla that that was the only request correct that was it yeah we had uh it. It has been seen.

P

And approved in phase two, but it was just we just didn't, have it in in on the books for.

P

Phase one so uh vincent um had uh noted that so we came back to get it approved.

C

So it's it's a dark gray rather than a black yeah yep, but it's a nicer profile.

P

A very nice profile, where's it quarried- I don't know. Okay, I don't know. I know that dave had died.

P

Sourced that- and um he said that the slate that's originally on there is not quarried.

P

Anymore, that much he confirmed, but um he found this one. Can we keep that yeah.

B

It's a nice thing yep could I have one too sure he has more. What's going on.

C

Favors not taking it home. Yes, you are.

G

um Happy to make a motion unless anybody has issues no move that we approve. This is presented.

A

Second, okay, all those in favor say aye aye against. Thank you.

A

So we have real slate um so with that I'm going to close the administrative approvals. So we move on.

A

To public hearings, old business, we have a work session, slash public hearing requested by one.

A

Reigns avenue, llc 31 reigns llc and 203 maplewood avenue llc owners for property located at 1 rains.

A

Avenue 31 rains avenue and 203 maplewood avenue, wherein permission is requested to allow the.

A

Construction of a five-story mixed-use building and a five-story hotel, as per plans on file in.

A

The planning department said properties are shown on assessor map 123 lot, 14 map, 123 lot, 13 and map.

A

123 lot 12 and lie within character, district, 4 and historic districts, so who here is to present this.

P

Good evening, carla good night from cj, architects and evan for me also from the development side.

P

We've been asked to formally request a work session because technically we are in the.

P

Postponed approval process, so we do need to formally request that and I'm not sure what.

P

The protocol is after that, but then we'd like to join you at the table and run through the.

A

So this is just a work session, so we can we'll go down.

C

But it's she's requesting, I think, you're, requesting a work session before if it goes.

C

Well, before going back into a public hearing yeah to make some potential choices regarding.

C

The options you presented in the revised drawings- correct yes, and did we postpone to this meeting.

P

Yes, so we would need to go back in and postpone again or make a decision anyway. I believe right.

P

We yeah finished the work session and decide what you're going to do. Okay, all right right, yeah, okay,.

D

A

At the table, oh a little awkward here. What are you doing good? How are you very good, so some.

A

Introductions again uh carla good night from cj architects, uh evan tormy from xxx hotels,.

Q

Yeah and why don't you pointing it towards you how's, that is that better all right there we go.

P

Is that working yes, go ahead? Okay, it'll tell us if it's not all right uh so um last time we met.

P

uh You had asked us to look for ways to improve upon and unify and more make the hotel design.

P

More exciting and add some interest and some elements also to the mixed use. So we've been.

P

Working with the brand the hotel brand and also been working on the some elements of the mixed-use.

P

Building to add additional glass features, additional brick features additional canopy.

P

Choices and so forth. So if you I'll just run you through our options, presentation because we've.

P

Started with the existing design from the the last meeting, but then we're running through a.

P

Series of options for windows and blazing, and so so just to refresh everyone's memory. The um first.

P

Page shows the original design for the marines of mixed-use building and then on um well after 1.2.

P

We have the original design that was submitted for the hotel, so just.

P

An overview of what the entry feature corners and side facing market street.

P

Appeared to be and at that time and then we have the enlarged views, 1.3.

P

1.4 and 1.5, and then moving on to so these are. These are what we showed you last. This is what.

P

We showed you last time, but we wanted to go back and look at exactly. Okay, so and 1.6 is.

P

The view from the water so option a. We took a look at breaking the massing at the corner.

P

um On maplewood and on the maplewood ave corner between the higher and the lower massing, which.

P

It was all sort of connected before which you uh I feel there was some objection to that and then.

P

We also looked at eroding the corners on the mixed use for the balconies in those areas, and we also.

P

Looked at the cornices, I mean the canopies, but the canopies. I just did those at the end, because.

P

It's easier to sort of compare them as a group, so on option a you can see how opening up that.

P

Corner has really separated those two structures and reconciled that kind of bi-level masonry.

P

um Between the volume, a and volume b and then on 1.2, just taking that hard edge off the corner, I.

P

Think is something that we considered to be more of a separation between the elevations.

P

So that's pretty much our major changes there other than the canopies themselves, which we'll.

P

Review at that, at the end, with all the candles, so this is option a is there an option b well option.

P

Not on mixed use, okay, but on um the hotel we concentrated a great deal of effort into uh really.

P

Bringing some glass features and elements into the entry, because I I think that seemed to be a.

P

Something that uh you know everyone was really interested in in pursuing, so we also did a 24.

P

Inch cornice over the entry in this option b, we have the new vertical glaze wall system at the.

P

Whole hotel entry only and we've also reverted in this option to a wood and metal canopy, as opposed.

P

To the glass canopy that we had on the original and then the metal band between the first and.

P

Second, floor remains here and we've retained or expanded on the vertical window pattern. So.

P

This is really this. This option focuses mostly on the entryway, and I think we weren't exactly.

P

Sure whether we were looking whether the entry was the primary concern of the board or whether.

P

It was really more, you know some of the other elevations, so this we've decided to provide.

P

An option focusing on entry, so that's option b. It was a opinion amongst most of the board.

A

I remember, and I felt that we wanted to more of a feeling of a little bit more of architecture.

A

And the hotel entry was certainly the place that seemed to be lacking at the time. Okay,.

A

Presenting these, this is um option one be here. So basically we look at the cover page in summary and.

P

Then we go through larger, larger images of all of the images on the cover page and then we'll look.

P

At the next option, so looking at this gives you a larger view of the updated entry architecture and.

P

Then uh you know less changes as we move around the building on 1.4 b, 1.5 b is essentially remains.

P

As it as it was, and then in option c, we really move more of these details around the building.

P

Where we bring that glass element and use it more liberally, we weren't sure you know if that was.

P

Going to be something that was appreciated or too much glass or we weren't sure, so, on this option we.

P

Did a higher cornice over the entry took advantage of the 48 inch option there and we moved the.

P

Applied the new vertical glazed wall system, metal and glazing at the entry and the corner and the.

P

Mill pond view as well: we also added um textured brick banding between the first and second floor.

P

Which carries around the the building and then retain the vertical window patterns for this.

P

Option and we added the gray brick at the base of the storefront wrapping all the way around, and we.

P

Also added a gray brick massing where the massing steps down one floor. So if you look at 1.3, see.

P

That is the the new entry, which is very similar to the one that.

P

Was there before, except we have the brick banding.

P

And then, when you move to one point, we've also eliminated the frames. The additional.

P

Frames around the windows, it just looks a little simpler and cleaner, and if you go to.

P

1.4 c, you really can see the impact of that glazing as it wraps around.

P

In the corner over 3s and then as it faces mill pond on 1.5 c, and I especially like this brick.

P

Textured brick banding element, that's you know, unifies the whole structure as you.

P

Go around, I think, that's a really nice texture and it's at a proximity to pedestrian activity.

P

That that would be really nice. I think for that, for that building, so that's option c.

P

Then, moving into option d uh option d again lowers the cornice slightly over the entry to.

P

Be more in keeping with the I-beam structures below so it's sort of stacks up with that same.

P

I-Beam profile, which I think is, is a really nice balance for that I was thinking the others might.

P

Be a little bit high and then we're continuing the new vertical glazed wall system at all. Three.

P

Points corner uh right and left and then keeping that textured brick and then carrying a horizontal.

P

Window pattern up sort of along through the through the metal panels directly below the.

P

Windows and it carries that um that horizontal brick banding, that we've had the little recessed.

P

Bricks at the base that we've been carrying through the design. Basically, you know for the.

P

Last few meetings- and I think it's just nice- to have it kind of echo up into the window pattern.

P

um But we're also carrying the brick base at the storefront and the gray brick massing.

P

um Along the north mill pond, so you can see that in 1.3 d and 1.40.

P

Again with that glazed corner and uh 1.5, I think, is kind of gives you that whole effect across so.

P

And 1.6, which shows you the the updates from that location. And then we can talk about that and then.

P

Talk about canopies, because it's a lot to take yeah, it's just dumped an awful lot. I did. I did.

A

Yeah, so I think we should start with that. That was our goal. That was our goal. Well, you did it. Okay,.

P

Good, the mixed-use building, okay and the changes that they've made so who wants to start off here.

A

Just jump right in if you feel like.

A

It's a work session. No, I mean I, I see what you've done to try and break up the building and.

G

Visually break up the massing, but for me it's not really enough of a change.

F

And just just to clarify, because you didn't give us a view from the mill pond or coming down from.

F

Maplewood from the mill pond side, there were no changes to that corner, not changed. No changes.

P

There- and I think my takeaway was that primarily that that there seemed to be this in objection to.

P

How the two masses were meeting in the low one and the high one, and you know that we needed a better.

P

Definition between the two of them and um that you know the traditional architectural details were.

P

Not not objectionable, but that they just really you know, seem to not feel or work as separate.

P

Looking building so we really concentrated primarily on creating that volume separation where.

P

You know the the three stories of brick above the storefront were isolated from the two stories.

P

Above and that's really what our primary goal was, there was to really really make that massing on.

P

That corner of I think that was the most sort of bothersome, I think was- did that massing needed.

P

To really be separated on the corner of um you know, maplewood and rains. Would you like them, yeah.

A

Thank you, I'm just making all kinds of noise anybody just feel free to.

A

Mm-Hmm, I would just simply say that I appreciate the efforts on the mixed use. Building.

B

I guess we're going to talk about mixed use and then we're going to go in the hotel, yeah.

B

And, and so your entrances are more better explained- that's helpful, so I think you're.

B

Moving in the right direction, um my biggest con- it's not the massing, though you have improved it.

B

It was just the the cornice and the entrances that if you had dialed those up a little bit, okay.

B

That would have made the difference. Okay and then I'll I'll save the comments. I.

B

Could? Because I know you're boxed in when it comes to the masking. I don't like it, but you.

B

That there's no option for you, so um you know I'm liking what I I'm seeing I'll hold off for.

B

The hotel portion is it the corner specifically on the upper floors of the mixed use that you see the.

B

Very top of the bridge, so maybe adding another a little more profile to that overhang to to provide.

Q

A little more depth and shadows articulation. Okay, I think that's that's very good and helpful.

P

Feedback, the brick that we're talking about, not the not the upper level, not the upper level.

I

Okay, so the cornice of the brick, I see. Okay, all right.

M

Is it because every one of these parts of the building has a flat roof and the cornice? That's.

M

Shown there is just reinforcing that this is the flat slab. This is a flat slab like it's.

M

Being made out of uh legos not so much, I don't uh most of our buildings in town are flat. Slabs.

B

In the inner city district in the commercial section that doesn't bother me, it relates.

B

um I just I'm just looking for there's not a lot happening in the body, so if.

B

We could do something at the base and that the cornice I I think it will go a long way.

L

Okay, all right, I think what you've done with the corners is definitely a step.

H

In the right direction, I think it you know it helps the messing breaks it up. Visually.

H

um But I'll agree with commissioner ryan. I do think the corners could do some more love and use.

H

A little more detail or just make the building pop more we're thinking, maybe mixed materials.

P

um Like adding a cap or something that is not a masonry, because masonry has its.

P

Limitations on extension, so maybe something like that would be good.

M

In fact, during the federal period we used to throw a balustrade on things to give them a little bit.

M

Of texture at the corner, slime is that something I have to say it. I mean that that that's pretty wild.

B

It's not like it needs a bell street that'll. Do it sometimes there's decks up there? You know it works.

P

Yeah right, so we do have some railing details at the caps of them. um The uh metal, black air, black.

P

Areas the dark areas they played down so much, it's almost like they're, not there, but also to pursue.

M

This just for a moment, they're, horizontal and all of these bland cornice lines are horizontal. Maybe.

M

I don't know anything, I see what you mean on on 1.1 a if you see that corner right there. The angle.

P

Is showing the balcony beyond just from that angle? But if something like that were brought further.

P

Forward it might be it's the thing you could play with right. It's just seen it. Why can't we see the.

A

Rails up there on the fourth floor, um they have to be 42, inches and height. There's that way back.

A

They're set back, the railings are right, the one that you are seeing with the two people.

P

There in front of the door is because it's closer to the edge that you would see it.

F

Carla, taking this view the corner view of maplewood, yes, the one we're looking at it.

F

If I were only looking at that one view and if the two rectangles on.

F

The far left, not the one you made smaller if those were made proportionately smaller.

F

I would start to feel like you actually were changing the mass of this building.

F

But those stick out so far and they're still so large that what you have reduced.

F

um Takes a step, but doesn't totally accomplish what I would look for.

F

And as much as I would applaud that change, I'm still concerned with how this looks.

F

In the major entrance to the city, which is coming off of maplewood route, one.

F

Down over the bridge and you're, seeing this whole thing from the mill pond side right now, you're.

F

Lucky you've got some big trees hiding that corner, but once those trees are gone that that whole.

F

Building is exposed and it's not very interesting, it's very large, so I I still can't get there.

Q

Just one point of clarification, not hdc, but as far as those trees, those are on the city-owned parcel.

Q

Those are not in within our our property, so those we wouldn't have anything to do with.

Q

Removing those trees at any time, however, there is no guarantee that they're going to stay there.

Q

And I have to think about what does this look like if those get taken out in a hurricane, they.

F

Get sick, you know whatever it is, clarify we weren't taking them out. That's part of this.

Q

Project got it. We would not be doing anything with those trees, yeah yeah. I would agree with.

G

With the idea that it's the.

G

It's the view coming down, maplewood that you see that large expansive building and.

G

And yes, the the part this three-story section, that's really right at the street front is so.

G

Plane and kind of boring- and I realized that we've pushed you in so many different ways and and work.

G

Sessions to make it simple and to make it you know, but if that section that's really the face of the.

G

Main thoroughfare had a little bit more interest. I don't know if a cornice is gonna really do it, but.

G

um Making it putting some more effort into that building to to make it an interesting.

G

Something that you see as you come into town.

G

And that would differentiate it from the mass this huge hulking mass behind it too. So it would.

G

Potentially break it up a little bit more well, I think, if you look at 1.6 d.

P

um You know we felt it was important to I think in our work sessions to really try to keep.

P

You can see it there from there, so I think that we felt it was really important to make sure.

P

That we kept that three-story.

P

um You know a a butt to the to that whole corner. Where you're coming I mean it wraps way back.

P

All the way around that entire area and then steps back for the fourth and fifth floor at that point,.

P

um Before it sort of hinges around and becomes the four-story mass, so I'm not saying make it.

G

Totally different so that it doesn't, but you know maybe even the first floor experience.

G

The entrance the facade is something to make it yeah. Okay, have some more interest, I mean it's so.

P

Low now I mean it's so low that it almost wants to be traditional at that height, so.

P

Look at the ground the front.

D

It just stands out as a three-story mm-hmm um apartment building. There.

L

As you're coming into town, but if you could do something with a corner.

M

Transform the whole building into a series of involved features.

A

Realistically, on the maplewood side, you could you know this? What we're discussing is, they could put.

A

Kind of a bay on it, similar to sort of a beacon street commonwealth avenue sort of thing, and that.

A

Would add interest, it would be a modern version of a bay that would add interest without adding.

A

Any height or anything would make this this front a little more traditional and then, as.

A

The building trails off going down rains, I have an obviously it's modern yeah. You know I think.

P

Is there anything you could do? I think what you're touching on is similar to where we arrived on the.

P

um Hotel piece with the gray at the back, where it steps down and almost really takes on a different.

P

Identity- and that was less- we did that with the cornice, but it's not incredibly noticeable that.

P

The cornice changes from the back piece to the to the piece that is along the street frontage.

P

So my thought is that now that we have actually broken that massing that brick out broke it free.

P

From the other side, we actually could put a a more significantly different treatment on that.

P

Entire piece, because it does break free from the other brick elements all the way around.

P

Now on three sides, instead of wrapping back in as it did on the original scheme,.

P

So it could be broken out as another bookend um that could you know the.

A

A brick building, that's on the corner of state street and um help me here nick. What's the the.

A

um The screen by the parking lot there that goes over to the new bank, building, etc, church fleet.

A

Is a charge, the church, we speak sleep with the alley dumps into.

L

The one that was in the front, that was the original address of the building.

A

We looked at it five or six years ago. Jen did the building.

A

It has the wine bar in it. Oh, it's a 77 state, okay, yeah at the bridge, yeah.

C

Where the exxon station was okay; okay, where the exxon station was.

A

But that has some you know good victorian details on it that um I'm not saying you're going to make.

A

This look victorian, I mean I'm not an architect, so I I just was trying to get past this.

A

uh Opinion that some people have of the plainness uh on maplewood avenue.

M

Is is one of the things that was complained about not complained, but it brought up a number of times.

M

Was the fact that this was an abrupt four stories from the surface of the building right up right.

M

Along the waterfront that there was no sense of of rising the building rising at this corner, it was.

M

Flip the switch on the lights are on yeah. We started with one story going to four there and.

M

And, as I recall on the very corner on maplewood avenue that started out, that thing is currently.

M

Now a three-story piece started out as a one-story piece, a big one story, uh and but that was the only.

M

Place that had occurred, which seems always seemed a little contrary to me in as much as.

M

Our streets typically streets in portsmouth, the street, sidewalk and then building and so.

M

The idea of ramping up in some manner from the street seemed wrong, but from the waterfront we.

M

Always had this imaginary park like and off in the distance, this building will rise up. That's.

M

The city in the distance is it any of that that could help in this. The transforming this wall.

M

This big wall, because one of the I think clearly one of the things that you're facing throughout.

M

All of this is this is outside of the model of most everything in portsmouth. It's just so damn.

M

Large it's, this is I'm I don't know what will be the tape measure, the longest piece of building in.

M

Town, but it's pretty close, uh if that's, if that's the demon in this whole thing that we're chasing.

M

That there's no sense of it fitting into the town. It is creating the wall of the town right there.

P

Well, I think you know breaking it into as we talked about the smaller buildings, the elements I.

P

Think will assign different identities as you move across, and I think that is that may help you. You.

P

Know view it, as you know, the components that it is because there is a drive lane between the two.

A

Bed with your option, a that, you didn't give us another picture of the back, so it's still.

P

The original it's on 1.6 d is up. There um is where it is. Yes, we did not uh look at that.

P

Because we basically concentrated, I was there staring at that too. We concentrate well. We did.

P

um Erode that balcony all the way to the left in on 1.6 d, we also did uh pull that corner, so it.

P

Is the same as the corner on the front that we showed you a close-up view of so that shortens.

P

That facade and um you know, adds more depth to the flat all the way to the left that corner so.

A

um You know one thing david was talking about um not to have this look like a large one. You.

A

Know this is one big building. You do have a natural division there that I'm seeing on 1.6 d.

A

Mm-Hmm is there some way that you could make a change to change one section from another on the.

A

Mill pond side, even I don't know, windows, color or yep yeah. I think that's kind of where we're.

P

Headed with that thought process, for instance, your penthouse extends right across and.

A

Personally, myself, I'm not really in favor of the white on the penthouse, but.

A

You know, that's me, um but it it certainly connects the building, and I mean it would.

A

Be a simple thing to change the color right there at that inside corner or something I don't know.

A

The separation between the hotel and the mixed-use building.

M

um I can see it is there. You can see that the window of the fenestration pattern changes.

M

To the spandrel form, rather than the punch window form, um but it for the most part, it's.

M

Relatively lost in terms of the composition, it looks like one huge building right right.

N

Wait a minute here um when you said something about looping. um uh Why not? I know it's probably.

N

A huge input of time and energy, but you've got the smooth curve of the water and why couldn't.

N

You somehow mirror that in parts of the building to as you talked about that, abruptness of the.

N

Building going up being softened by having more uh more curves than angles, and some are all of.

N

Each portion does that make sense, combining the the rising from the waterfront with.

M

Dan's, uh rounded sections, why is it does? Is it required to be rectilinear? Is that is that needed.

M

It's not possible, I mean anything's possible right in fact, in as much as getting it done is.

M

It a possibility, I think, it's possible to look at elements that would soften the you know the.

P

The lines I mean it's, you know we can go back and forth between making it. um You know very.

P

Purely rectilinear and simple, or you know starting, I want to make sure be careful that we don't start.

P

Randomly introducing things that don't make a are cohesive right sure, but that randomly introducing.

M

Approvals is also- and you you did do you did do it on green street, which is a bit of the you.

A

Remember the top couple floors that you, you know we jokingly called it a a ship superstructure up.

A

There- and um it was effective- I think, on- that building, right we're looking for something: okay,.

P

All right, um I'm sorry, you guys. No! um I was just looking at the you know what you did with the.

H

Decks um there to break up the massing yeah, would it be possible to cut that that corner window into.

H

A deck there right where the um you know we're in the waterfront, where it meets maplewood that.

H

Would create more of a step down right through the street and then came into the entrance of.

Q

The city, rather than have the balcony sort of in the middle of that facade, if you, you would see a.

H

Road that corner stairs on that side, instead of just a wall, I think I'm getting a really good.

P

Signal of you know, the part that seems to be um is objectionable. Besides, you know just adding some.

P

Variation between the masses is that this last mass, as it hits maplewood just, is too similar.

P

To the other masses that I'm seeing here that it really maybe should take a lesson from the hotel.

P

Where we, you know, broke out an entirely different form. That is still complementary, because you know.

P

It still has the same program over there, so it's going to be doing that. I know we're supposed to be.

F

Focusing on the on the mixed-use building, but what you've done in option d with the hotel? I think.

F

If you can apply some of the same aesthetic to what's going on at the mixed-use building, you're.

F

You're really going to help the situation, because one of the biggest problems in.

F

Addition to there being an over regularity of bays and fenestration and so on, and so on.

F

um You've been trying to break up the building by moving.

F

Those parts making them smaller and bigger and smaller, but they're still they still look the.

F

Same where what you've accomplished with option d is you've broken up the hotel by actually.

F

Breaking up the design producing that design element in multiple locations, I'm not saying.

F

Use the same design elements on the mixed-use building, but use the same principle. Yes and then.

F

um Maybe, by taking with the hotel, you have the one corner element to the left of the.

F

Entrance it's a completely different corner, maybe by applying making a different corner.

F

To the corner, that is seen as you cross the bridge and make from maplewood and make that.

F

Your signature element for this building- I I have been wanting to see carla from you.

F

You you have a flare for something in your buildings and it's it's one. Usually one.

F

Element here or there that says that's carla's building and I haven't seen that on the on the.

F

Mixed-Use building and I've been waiting for it and hoping that it would be that saying.

F

That people would drive into portsmouth and go remember that building. You know just just as you.

F

Go across the bridge into town- and I just haven't seen that and I know I know you do those so well.

M

Flattery, thank you that'll work. I think he did such an amazing transformation of the hotel.

L

um And they see, indeed, are just, I think, really well done.

L

That I was a little disappointed that the mixed use building is still this bunch of lego squares.

P

Right, I think we went pretty uh straight up traditional on that so well, I guess I wasn't.

P

Aware that was as objectionable as it seems to be so, but all of a sudden, you know with the hotel.

A

With your color choices, with your fourth floor, you know being dark and with that large entry.

A

And stuff, all of a sudden, the hotel, a doesn't look as big b the front of it has a traditional.

A

Modern take on a victorian four and a half story: five-story mansard building. You know it you've.

A

You but but it's still modern, obviously you're not trying to copy that and that's what's good and and.

A

By using these dark bricks around the corner and such you, you've essentially changed that.

A

Bit of the hotel- and um it's just I can see what margo is talking about, it's being more successful.

P

Right right, we really played up the channel. The whole trouble is that we've, given you.

A

About six different ideas here, we've cut the corners away, we've got, you know, decks, we've got.

A

uh John wyckoff bay windows on the front we've got uh um different style from the front section of.

A

The mix used to the back sections and so we've, given you an awful lot that um I'm afraid it's.

A

Going to require you to come back with this well, I think. um Well, I think no, no just listen! I mean I.

P

Think that we were somewhat, uh you know under the impression that the the mixed use.

P

Massing was really what was, you know needed to be more modulated and more defined, um but you know.

P

We could certainly move more further away from traditional with that, with some elements of that.

P

Building, if that would be, if it is still there, I mean you're, calling the mixed use. Traditional and.

A

The way that you've done the hotel now, that's not traditional, I would say it's exactly opposite. Okay,.

A

I would say that the mixed use is, um you know, just you know, looks modern. It looks like a you know, a.

A

A you know something out of peas or something like that. But um it's just a little mixed up.

A

um Do we feel comfortable with moving on to them? Everybody wants to move on to the hotel.

A

Okay, let's not forget the canopies as well. I would just add that, whatever whatever you take.

F

From this that it goes all the way around the mixed-use building that we don't end up.

Q

With particularly the maplewood approach and yes and then the mill pondside yes thank you.

A

So do you want to do the canopies we we can do something new? Well, let's just do the hotel. It.

Q

Seems to me it seems like we, the canopies are secondary to the conversation we just.

Q

Had on the mixed use and that we can make a lot of progress there and the canopies will act, you know.

Q

Help that, but it there's more to do than just look at those canopies right, so I think we.

A

Okay, where do we? Let's see, we got to go back to something right, so.

O

We had to be going back to b e right and again. This was we weren't sure about the magnitude.

P

uh So we just sort of did an increasing magnitude on the hotel.

F

I would just jump in and say I like d, okay option d yeah, let's just say, jump to c and d.

L

Okay, I think b was the right idea to the front. You should carry it all the way through to the.

L

Back, I think, that's what cmd does right little changes in the front, yeah right.

P

um So I think that's.

A

But um b doesn't have b still has the same brickwork all across the back.

P

Hindi, just to kind of clear things up is the glazing pattern and the elevated.

P

um Cornice at the at the entry, otherwise they are.

P

So if you look at um 1.3 c, you can see the windows.

P

Are the same as the gray? Actually, let's now look at one point: yeah, the elevated.

P

um uh Cornice, above where it says, hotel signage, on 1.3 c and then, if you go to 1.3 d, you can see.

P

That the glazing pattern changes and that we have just repeated the uh this sort of I-beam metal.

P

Composition at the top of the structure, but it does get taller because of the hotel, signage band.

P

Oh um just to round that off again d.

A

The one thing that that I see with the on that corner of the front is that it doesn't.

A

Have there's more windows? Is that right on d on d? Oh I'm, looking at c excuse me c and d should.

P

Have identical window openings with different glazing patterns within the vertical within the.

P

Vertical right versus horizontal yeah: well, you know something I'm at the wrong corner.

A

Right now, I'm looking around by 3s sorry to do this yeah you're. Looking at yes, yes,.

A

I like that, um the one thing about um c is uh um on the front the windows that are on the.

A

Corner of the front you seem to have white columns with white trim. I mean around the.

A

Windows, what's the story with that, I mean that just just totally, this sort of picks up on the.

P

Hotel signage and just makes it otherwise all metal. It would be all identical. The same color.

Q

Previously, that corner was more of that light yeah. We darkened everything but sort.

Q

Of the frame around the window, but that certainly something we could look at it yep minimizing that.

I

I'll say that um 1.4 and 1.5, I think the c and d options have improved immensely over the b option.

H

um Especially the 1.5 view the view across the north mill pond I mean that is going to.

H

Be a view that everyone sees, as you drive into town off 95 down over the water from.

H

Vehicle park, it's yeah, that's going to be very visual. Now before it looked like one big mass.

H

One big irs building, I think now what you've done is it looks way better. It looks broken up.

H

um Yeah, I I just think it's a it's the head and shoulders above. Thank you, maybe 1.5 c and d is.

P

What we should be looking at for the glazing difference, because an amazing yeah I'll just.

H

Go in and say that I prefer c, um I noticed the d you have the vertical and horizontal. Yes.

H

And that breaks it up, but I think the keeping the windows the same does kind of it's. The same theme.

H

Throughout you know, it's not, it doesn't add to the massing. It just tells you that it is one building.

H

Right and we could make them all, make them all horizontal or we could make them all vertical.

H

I wanted to make it look yeah. Okay, I don't know what it is about. You know.

A

Horizontal mountains on windows or horizontal divisions on windows- I just don't know why do.

A

I have this thing built into my brain for 50 years, that I jealousy windows.

A

No, it's jealousy windows, it's it's old ranch house. I don't know why. But it's just. I don't.

A

Know so that's exactly what I like about it. That's why you like it because you've got jealousy. It has.

P

That nice kind of retro any other comments and opinions. We have got options here, I'll just say.

G

I appreciate how much effort you and time put into improving the design here I mean, I think, that it.

G

Shows it's a better design. It's got more interest because it works all all together a lot better. So.

G

um Yeah, I think, and what we've basically have said is like takes take some of that time and effort.

G

And just put it into the other one as well. Okay, um so I think it's it's. It's definitely improved.

L

Does it add your, does it hit your pizzazz that you've been looking for right, pizzazz.

B

um Yeah, I would uh I agree. I would agree with what greg is saying that.

B

That this has come up like extra mile and good. I, like the the brick.

B

um The brick banding much better than just a metal band that just you see everywhere.

B

And it's has no character. My preference is c only because of the window configurations.

B

um I think are far better than the than the the three the triple horizontal sort of window.

B

And I yeah, I think I think it's great I I would that gray box on the corner. I might put a relief.

B

Between the between the gray, brick and the beiges, brick just a slight separation, because it's such a.

B

Nice element in and of itself other than just the offset yeah, and it's it's it's very nice because.

B

It's very layered looking um so [music] um I could approve this tonight. If we just isn't there an.

A

Expansion joint that they can put in for an offset and have we've seen that we're articulate than a.

B

Something more that's only about this much right. You know no more than that. Yeah.

Q

I wouldn't ask you to accept an expansion right there.

B

A

And just jump in anybody.

Q

It's everybody's consensus is safe, yeah.

P

All right, then, I will keep. I know this is your second.

P

Meeting this month, so I will keep it moving on to 1.7 the canopies.

P

uh 1.70 uh represents the glass and steel canopies that we were looking at on maplewood, ave and rain.

P

Dab and then the hotel front canopy from the previous submittal. And if you look at 1.71.

P

We've looked at some more massive metal with tie backs. We have not proposed changes to the rains.

P

Ave entrance canopy and then we've also looked at the hotel canopy having more of a warm wood.

P

Underneath there for the hotel entrance instead of the glazed, so.

P

I guess we have gla that 1.71 is good, because it has all three glass iron and wood.

P

um As potential ways of executing the uh entrance canopies.

P

And they could go on either structure or multiple locations. I guess my question, for you would be.

P

Would we want to split uh one type of canopy on one building and another, or would we do a.

P

Hierarchy, or is there any of these, that you don't like that we can rule out which would be helpful.

A

um I I would say you know I hate to jump in first. Does anybody else want to okay.

A

um I mean I really appreciate the wood underneath on the hotel.

A

I would say that you don't want these canopies to match. We, we don't want these two buildings to.

A

Yeah, so essentially, I know that these are your buildings. Okay, I realize that, but we.

A

Don't want them to be. This is your corner here you know I mean I would think that we want to.

A

See some difference, some variety, okay in these buildings and I think that's what we're trying.

Q

To do with this option here was last option. Right previously we had sort of dressed them.

Q

All up, but dressed them all up alike, with the glass and steel and so yeah, providing some.

A

I would say the of the ones you've presented the rains avenue canopy with the glass on top. It.

F

I don't think it has the weight that you need for this building.

F

um And while I'm thinking about it, when when we see the mixed-use building again, could we have.

F

Some different options versus the white at the top that I think john mentioned mm-hmm all right.

A

David, do you like any of these candles, they're all alien to me? So I don't. I don't get it. I.

D

I don't understand why they need to be so rectilinear, I don't they don't seem.

M

To be have any spirit to them, uh uh maybe they're too big to have shapes, but but.

L

I, like the glass metal angled, one, it's my favorite. I absolutely.

L

Yeah, the old hotels right on 1.70, far right, that's sort of yeah yeah right, but I agree they should.

L

Probably be different bracket yeah, maybe if we, if we like the wood on the hotel and that mass.

Q

Then this is a better option somewhere else on mixed use, building yeah right, I'm the only one.

A

Who said he liked the woods yeah, I don't know it's awesome, not people nodding when you said it. Oh, we.

M

Got it I don't know, I think, you're right about that. At least it's not more anodized metal, yeah.

M

I I'm old I'd, probably double 40. hoods over doors.

M

Different kinds, all different kinds, I don't think I did the same one twice.

M

um I didn't have the challenges that you have, but none of them were as plain as this.

D

None of them, no all right, so we're looking for a variety. I think anybody would hire.

A

David adams to build you know anything that it looks like you've got it, you got it, and so we.

A

Are we're out of our element element? I I've never built anything like this just but but.

M

Wouldn't I mean, I don't know, seems like things buy and sell pretty rapidly downtown that that maybe.

M

I don't think it was all a mistake. I guess no, what was it? Yes, martin? I you know. I just say that.

B

I I think they need to go like a little extra mile with the detail, but I find the glass more.

B

Interesting, only because typically these canopies, they you know it juts out it's. It's got a tar.

B

Sloppy tar roof and a glass you know at least reveals. What's going on with the building you.

B

Know you can't hide any you can't just mock up a construction, it has to be very articulate. It's.

B

Got to be well detailed, all the bolts have to look good, and you know all the connections and.

B

The and the weldings have to look good and sculptural, and so I can appreciate that. I I.

B

Prefer that to be more transparent and sculptural and and to me the building's so massive that these.

B

Delicate class pieces really add to the the character of the building. Now, when you look.

B

On the reigns avenue on the multi-purpose building, you have a you, have a big thick.

B

Canopy and then a little thin canopy shouldn't they. I I think it would be better if they sort.

B

Of had a little bit of a relationship, yes and some sort of dialogue between them.

B

That's my two cents.

R

So moving right along.

A

um I hope you've been, you know, writing down. No, it's all recorded. It's all recorded right.

Q

I'm taking notes yeah yeah, I know it so uh unless anybody else has got another opinion.

A

They want to go, I'm going to ask for the public and then close this work session. Okay,.

A

Public want to speak about this project.

S

Like a bad penny, I keep coming back elizabeth property owner.

S

159 mcdonough street nick, can you please bring up? I think it's one d.

S

It's a picture of the hotel and then you see how it goes down. Stop go back into d.

S

Keep going into d there, you are one more: that's it back up, corner 1.4 the corner, so.

S

um I first want to compliment carla and her team for finally coming up with something that's a.

S

Little bit interesting, but what I wanted to point out, which is easier to see when you're on your own.

S

Computer is how much nicer the new brick. I call it brick or brack, because I don't have a a background.

S

In in architecture, but if you look at the cement is what I'm going to call it on the mixed use.

S

Building, I would love to see that cement line that banding go around be turned into either a gray or.

S

um Or a dark gray, black or the same color, brick as it is on this building.

S

To have it kind of go down, so there is something that connects them, but.

S

Not something that's massive and connects them, so just that I just personally don't.

S

Care for that white cement looking stuff and I think it makes the mixed use building just.

S

Screen, I'm so big. You need to look how large I am so that's one suggestion, so the other.

S

Suggestion would be on the entrances if you can flip to the next one nick that has the entrance.

S

uh We're in d, that's fine, so the ones that have canopies this one doesn't have it. But again you.

S

Can see when you look behind the building and you look at the mixed use, you can see.

S

All that white sticking out, which makes that whole building put your eyes on how huge it is.

S

So, in regards to the windows, I would like to see those horizontal windows.

S

Be on the top floor and the vertical ones underneath so mixing c and d and the reason.

S

Why is because those horizontal windows make that top look smaller to me when I look at c.

S

And I see the vertical windows that top looks higher, um so that was that.

S

Can we go to the corners nick, um the um on the on the hotel, so you got to go up.

S

To the white, but it's going to be that one stop. So those white um trim things on the.

S

Middle which are kind of leftovers from the white that was there. I think they should go.

S

Away and be black, but the white trim around the windows themselves, I think, is appealing because.

S

It kind of separates that out a little bit so the little thin white on the outside I like, but the.

S

Inner big white I don't like and that I thought would look good. Can you go to the mixed use? Please.

S

To the balcony so that little bit of white, I think, would.

S

Give some kind of interest to those balconies that were added. I like that. The balconies.

S

Kind of break that up, but to give them a little something that they just the balconies just look.

S

It helps, but they need something in my opinion, but again that white banding, when you look at.

S

That building that white banding is what makes it look so huge and the same thing.

S

With the white on top that you guys already brought up so let me see if I have anything.

S

Else so I trim on the corners the brick base, the cornices, the upper story with the windows.

S

Anyway- and I agree with everything everybody else said because they, they are all points that needed.

S

To be made- um and I do want to thank you for introducing three different choices, at least on.

S

The hotel, it is a significant improvement over what was there before. Thank you all righty, yes,.

R

uh Good evening I'm duncan mccallum.

R

536 state street and I'm here to speak in opposition to this project.

R

Basically, the thrust of it is, is it's just too massive and it's totally out of character with.

R

The historic district of the downtown area now the reason why you haven't had more spirited and.

R

Vocal public opposition to this project is that we all thought that these proceedings had been.

R

Stayed way by by the court way back in uh way back in february, and I was right in the middle.

R

Of it, so I know whereof, I speak. The sequence of events was that on december 16th of last year, the.

R

Planning board granted site plan approval for the project. I filed a motion for reconsideration and.

R

Rehearing on it, with the planning board planning board granted my motion on on january 27th of this.

R

Year and set it down for hearing in mid february, but before the planning board could conduct its.

R

Re-Hearing, the developers in both this project and the 53 green street project filed lawsuits in the.

R

Rockingham superior court and obtained a stay of proceedings. uh My understand my understanding and.

R

I do remember it vividly. Is that one of the other other projects- I don't know whether it.

R

Was this one or 53 green street, but it was set down for a for a hearing before the zba.

R

And uh I got word and uh by agreement to the parties because of the lawsuit that the.

R

Developers filed, we all agreed to take everything off pending the outcome of the lawsuits and we you.

R

Know I agreed to a stay of all proceedings and I thought everybody understood that that was a stay.

R

Of all land use sport proceedings, including this one. However, eventually it came to my attention.

R

um Some of my fellow agitators and anarchists and revolutionaries said hey. I thought there.

R

Was a stay of proceedings, uh they're continuing they're, continuing to hold hearings before the.

R

uh Before the hdc- and I said well yeah, that is my understanding. uh I thought the state of.

R

Proceedings apply to everybody, and so eventually I brought it to the city attorney's attention and.

R

Sure enough, they sided with me. I'm sure you'll all remember the uh the hearing that was kind of.

R

Canceled at the last minute uh in august or august or september, and it was for that reason- so that's.

R

Why you haven't heard more outfit uh more feedback from the public on this matter now the opinions.

R

That I expressed tonight are just my own. However, it should be noted for the record that I represent.

R

Approximately uh 10 or 15 citizen opponents of both this project and the 53 green street.

R

Project both in the planning board in the zba and in the rockingham superior court and I'm pretty.

R

Sure that if they were here all here tonight that they would agree with everything, I'm about to say.

R

Now the central threat, the central theme of our opposition, that my opposition at least, is that.

R

The pride this project is just too big, it's just too massive. It is completely, in my view,.

R

It is completely inconsistent with the character of the historic district and the character of the.

R

Setting in which these buildings would sit, you have two five-story buildings.

R

Five stories those buildings are gonna dwarf all or most of the other buildings. In that immediate.

R

Area now I and size matters mass matters. I sometimes have got the impression of that.

R

In the past- and I don't know whether I'm right- but it's been my impression that some of the.

R

Members of this board didn't even realize that oversized building again just excess.

R

Mass exercise as a ground for denying approval of a building, but it certainly is a ground for.

R

Disapproving the project you wouldn't approve a building the size of the empire state building in.

R

The middle of market square, even if that building was a faithful if oversized reproduction of the.

R

Old new hampshire state house, which, by the way, did sit in the middle of market square in the.

R

Middle in the 1700s and early 1800s too tall this project doesn't even uh and uh never mind the fact.

R

That this, uh this project is going to uh be put in the middle of the wetlands buffer, and it's.

R

Going to wreak havoc on the ecosystem of the north mill pond never mind the fact that it doesn't even.

R

Have the redeeming feature of being affordable or workforce housing? These are the plan. Is that.

R

These are going to be market ready to market rate apartments and, and of course the hotel is, is going.

R

To be purely for profit, uh in my judgment, these buildings will be an eyesore on the north mill.

R

Pond, if you want to move into architecture, uh you know, as far as I'm concerned the buildings that.

R

Are being proposed? Look more like a apartment building or a high school of the type you'd.

R

Say in saugus massachusetts where linda revere massachusetts and not an historic portsmouth,.

R

So, for those reasons, I think this project is complete these the proposal, the proposed buildings.

R

Are completely out of place and I ask that they be disapproved. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else, oops.

T

Ladies and gentlemen, paige trace 27 hancock street. I was sitting down there.

T

With you in this whole project, first came forward and carlos brought it a long way.

T

But I'm here to say every time I hear someone speak about the building, it's huge. It's big.

T

And I've heard you all say that at various times and maybe you've just seen it enough.

T

Times that the huge and the big just keep coming at you like a ramming horn and you.

T

Get to the point where you say: oh, it's, okay, that it's huge and it's big. The fact of the matter is.

T

That you were not required to follow the vision statement of the city.

T

Or the ninth or the 2025 master plan you're not required, but we ask is regular. Normal citizens.

T

That our hdc and our counselor representative at least pay credence.

T

To the stipulations of the vision statement by which is 35 feet, tall.

T

35, I assume that that's a heck of a lot more than 35 because it gets taller when it gets bigger.

T

So, every little bit every time, please in my world, when I look at a piece of furniture.

T

Bigger huge denotes, not so pretty kind of awkward, maybe even ugly.

T

um But big in mass is not what the north mill pond needs. It needs softening of corners.

T

It needs adherence or at least acknowledgment of why you're actually adding an extra 20 feet.

T

Onto a building when everybody acknowledges two and a half stories 35 feet at most next to the.

T

Water, it's a stepping up of a plateau and that's what's successful and all of you holding the line.

T

And at least trying to make something big and huge attractive. I admire you all for your perseverance.

T

Night after night, but carly you're better than big and huge.

T

So I'm asking you please: it's not it's not housing, it's not workforce housing. There's.

T

Nothing here, but a hotel and mixed use that you could do something with hotel and mixed use.

T

If you gave me workforce housing, I'd be a heck of a lot happier and you'd hear.

T

Crickets, but it's not that so I'm asking you I know you deserve to make a profit.

T

But we have to look at that odd infinitum forever and I keep hearing big and huge. Thank you.

A

Okay, anybody else.

U

Good evening esther kennedy 41 pickering ave. um You know I have to ask it's a lot to ask in.

U

One committee and I did sit in your spot with a couple of you on the committee for a couple years.

U

And I have to ask: what do we see portsmouth as this isn't? It was so well nicely said.

U

This is what people enter into our city, as this building is going to be next to a neighborhood.

U

And I agree with page trace, but if we were getting some kind of benefit subsidized.

U

Housing in particular, we might be able to look a little over it, but it's big.

U

There's nothing else no more to say, and it really isn't very creative.

U

I almost if we're gonna go like this. I I was kind of shocked that I haven't heard from counselor.

U

Commissioner, rudick, that is in a new spot, you should get creative. You can be, um I think the name.

U

The new name for the newest addition to our town is called the barrel. You can add some stuff here.

U

um You know it is, if we're gonna, do it at this point, go for it.

U

Because we've kind of lost what our town is, and it is a village, it is a town, a small city.

U

And there's a reason that we have a historical commission.

U

There's a reason why we're asking you all to take the time commissioner adams.

U

Brought up about the windows and the difference in the windows and and adding a little culture to it,.

U

And I commend him and I commend his work that we see all over the town for years.

U

And it shouldn't be pre-pooed, it should be celebrated this building. I do not believe.

U

Is a representation of portsmouth anymore you're entering it should be smaller and it should be.

U

Something that we want to look at for more than 30 years. I'm not sure we need another portwalk.

U

And that's what that is for folks, maybe a little bit more expensive for a walk. But it's a port walk.

U

What is our city? It's historical? We want to keep the historical answer. We have a historical.

U

Commission question I have for you is: how are you going to do it? We know this building right.

U

Now is being built in a buffer zone. Hence the reason um we are fighting it, but take that out.

U

This building should be a building that when people come to portsmouth, they say.

U

I'm in portsmouth I'm here to enjoy the history of portsmouth and it makes us a little different.

U

Than boston or I'm here to enjoy the arts of portsmouth, I'm not sure this building says that.

U

So I'd encourage you to take a little more time. I would encourage you to.

U

um um Really try to make it a make. It special make it different. um I have one more comment in general.

U

About this whole process, I was a little taken back to hear that a building got passed and then.

U

um The old getty station, and then it was said well we'll deal with what is going.

U

To be deciding and what's going to be the the look in the afterwards and we rushed it through.

U

um And then like tonight, we we, as citizens, had no say on what that would be. Look like.

U

Because it was put under administrative or it could be put under administrative passing.

U

I hope buildings we don't do that too too often, because I know a lot of citizens probably like to.

U

Have a say of what it looks like, and I hope we don't do that to this building. Thank you.

U

Hey anybody else.

V

Good evening rick beckstead 1395 islington street, uh I'm not going to take more than a few moments.

V

Of your time I get it, I mean most of that whole area of town is more modern, more newer. I suppose.

V

It needs some of that, but I'm still trying to figure out and wonder what happened to the.

V

Charrettes that we had under brian wright or many people that are in this room were actually a part.

V

Of that and where what happened to the master plan, it actually is still up on the city docks where it.

V

Actually shows and depicts this section of town as it's two and a half story, buildings, nothing more.

V

And it was kind of broken up. I mean I I look at this and if we are going to someday, have.

V

A park there something a little more inviting, I don't travel a whole lot, but some of those ones.

V

Where you've got water and to be able to have an outdoor restaurant or something like that.

V

From the back side, something more of an element, I think that is missing. um There's almost no place.

V

That you actually sit on the water itself to be able to go and have that kind of a meal. But.

V

Two and a half story was nothing more. We spent a great deal of money and time I spent god. I think.

V

That went on for four or five days it was held in the old portsmouth herald building tony corviello.

V

Was gracious enough to let the community go and use it, and I think we just it was night after.

V

Night after night- and he did a great job- what happened to that? The other thing that I really.

V

Still disturbs anybody is it's new, it's modern! It's the north end. It's we got what we got now. We.

V

Have to work with what else is there, but you still have to look across the street on the other side,.

V

I know some of those buildings aren't originally placed there. They were put there on purpose. Those.

V

Buildings need to be celebrated to be able to go and look at that across the street from buildings.

V

That are well over 200 years old that exist today, that people have put a great deal of.

V

Time and money into, I think, does a disjustice to those buildings itself into the city of portsmouth.

V

Modern, I get it two and a half story, nothing more. That was the intent and you, as a board, are.

V

The ones that have that ability to go and say two and a half story. You need to stick with the master.

V

Plan more and more developers are using that, and they come in with these drawings of these montages.

V

And they go off of it, they didn't do that here. You don't see any of that depiction which still sits.

V

Again on our city website that actually views that that corridor, that's there and complements.

V

It the the vision, was to step down by the water to go up higher when you get away from the water.

V

That would go and solve your problem of a wall on both sides. I'm still surprised that you're.

V

Not going to have uh the owner across the street, because this is certainly going to block his views.

V

I mean I'm sure he gets a great deal of money for those rents for the views.

V

That he has overlooking that end of town it just it's not right. It's not right. Please.

V

um Please consider it um it's got to be, it's got to be lower, it's got to be more.

V

Traditional to the master plan that we've put so much time and effort in. Thank you very much.

W

Good evening peter huda, 288 south street.

W

This area town, I spent five years living over there, it's near and dear to my heart,.

W

I used to come into town almost every day and enjoy the view. The stepped up view to the steeple.

W

In looking at what has become over there, the the views of the water are gone and as soon.

W

As you come around the corner off where I used to live on bennett, this is what you see in your face.

W

Now two and a half stories like the rest of everything around there.

W

Is acceptable yeah the building into the buffer is unacceptable.

W

And even for me now, even though I live on the other side of town to come over, there.

W

And see something that's already there, and then this added on top of it is is depressing for me.

W

um I moved to portsmouth for the historic views and all a historic attributes that go with it.

W

And I think the development in this area especially has gone the opposite way.

W

So I urge you, as the people who guard our historic treasures,.

W

Please reconsider this for the rest of the residents in town. Thank you.

A

Is there anybody online.

D

C

Yeah bill downey go ahead bill. Can you hear me? Okay, yes, yep uh good evening, everyone um I'll.

X

Make this shorts since I'm pretty tired after a long night last night with the elections, but.

X

A couple things um it's just too big, as everyone said so far, and it's numbingly dull, but this has.

X

All the charm of a rite aid and, as rick said, there's such a disservice to the neighborhood.

X

Immediately across the street and to the community, so I cannot believe it's gotten this far.

X

And what a disservice to a charming town to make it anywhere? Usa, that is all.

X

A

Yeah one more hi, I'm douglas allen, I'm a resident at 17 sheath street here in portsmouth, and uh I.

Y

Moved here in 2018 2017, something like that and um portsmouth used to be a charming town used.

Y

To be really charming, it used to be unique from any other place. I'd ever seen and um I live at.

Y

The end of what now is a behemoth of a building which is the building across from series bakery.

Y

And daniel street and it it has engulfed the entire historic district with this monstrosity.

Y

To me, this is monstrosity part two and it has no place in portsmouth that looks like it. She.

Y

Belongs in boston, it's nondescript! It's not interesting. It doesn't hold any uniqueness to.

Y

It at all and it's an eyesore actually and we already have an eyesore we've- got an enormous.

Y

Eyesore that we will never ever escape from and it has hidden the view of the church, it.

Y

Has hidden the view of all of the it dwarfs all of the historic buildings around it, and this is.

Y

Part two and after a while, what's going to be, why would anyone come to portsmouth if it's.

Y

Just a reproduction of boston on a smaller scale. What's the point- and this is just a continuation.

Y

Of that- and I just needed to get up and say that, thank you, [applause] anybody else.

Z

Hi, my name is abigail gandell. I live at 229 clinton street. I live on the other end of the.

Z

North mill pond and I look down and the little two and a half story, the two and a half story- houses.

Z

That have been mentioned by many speakers here. They look like monopoly houses now compared to.

Z

The big, I don't know the heinemann building, I call it this thing will do it this, um the ac, hotel and.

Z

The foundry garage, although that's a little more upstream so but um my two points I just want to.

Z

Say are just when I had to get up and walk around. I noticed really for the first time the little.

Z

um The little recreation of the original new hampshire state house- that's historic,.

Z

This so many elements of this piece come from 1950s architecture. That's not historic to me.

Z

Maybe it is if you're 30 years old, but it isn't to me and um the last thing I just want to say.

Z

Was I'd like to ask you guys all a question? Would you want to walk out of your front door.

Z

Or be sitting in your living rooms looking out a window at that building, that should be the.

Z

That should be the measure of every building that goes up in portsmouth. Our cities would be a whole.

Z

Lot lovelier, if everyone did that um worldwide, not to mention citywide but anyway, uh maybe you.

Z

Would maybe wouldn't, but I have a feeling that that well, I don't know I'll, let it rest with that.

Z

All right, so I seeing nobody stand up, I'm going to close.

A

Yeah I'm going to close this uh work session and um I don't see us moving into any public hearing.

C

I don't know bill downing, has his hand up again, but I've closed.

D

Oh, it's not! Maybe if you can't unmute it, okay, we'll keep going he's muted,.

C

A

What are you saying, go ahead too.

A

All right, so um you understand that um a lot of us feel that the hotel has gotten better.

A

And reached a certain point, come a long way right, the mixed-use building. I think we all still have.

A

Problems with you've heard a lot of comments from the public concerning the massing of this building.

A

Whether you could consider taking off penthouse or removing a floor.

A

In other words, something like that would might certainly help I had that call for two weeks.

A

um So uh and you've got our comments on you'll, be able to see the recording and such oh. Yes, the.

A

Other comments we have of the building, whether it's softing and softening it with some rounded.

A

Corners or adding so uh at this point, um I think that we need to have a continuance.

A

Yeah december, for now yeah and we're probably it should still be a work session.

A

Because I, you might be be coming back with a couple options for the mixed use, I would say at.

A

This point: maybe you would just leave the hotel public hearing and then they can go back. Okay,.

A

All right, okay, I understand that so we're going to continue it as a public hearing with you can.

A

Go into a work session in the future, but um all the work needs to be done on this building here.

A

All right so can I have a motion motion to continue to december to december seconded.

A

All right, all those in favor all right against all right. Thank you very much.

D

B

Is there a form for that.

A

Are we still going? Does anybody need a break.

D

No or I'd use a smoke sure we got left yes yeah. What have we.

U

Got left, I guess I guess there is a request for a quick break. Okay,.

A

So we're going to take a short break right now, we're back in five to ten.

F

A

Okay, we're gonna get going again, um so we have a petition of robin and cyrus noble owners for.

A

Property located at 15 mount vernon street wherein permission is requested to allow new construction.

A

To an existing structure extend the roofline of the existing house over the attached garage.

A

As per plans on file in the planning department, said, property are shown on a sessa map 111 as lot.

A

33 lies within general, residence b and historic districts. um I would like to say at this point.

A

That um about three years ago, approximately we did give an approval for this project, but time.

A

Ran out and um we're looking because the we're well over a year, we cannot just give an extension.

A

So it's uh a new hearing.

A

So, who is here to present this hearing or is there anyone should they? There should be somebody here.

A

December 7th, I guess.

D

uh It's not yeah, but I don't think she's working for the current owners anymore. They changed donors.

C

um Movement, they just asked to be sure I think you're right, but if she is out there sure okay.

A

Technical difficulties, you all just talk amongst yourselves, while we're entertainers john yeah.

A

I've got a couple jokes, no.

A

Please don't all right. I move that we continue this to the december meeting.

G

Second, okay, all those in favor aye against all right. So we've continued that one.

A

So this is the petition of 553 and 559 islington street llc owner for property located at 553.

A

Islington street, wherein permission is requested to allow changes to a previously approved design.

A

Several exterior modifications, as per plans on file in the planning department, said property.

A

Is shown on assessor map 157 as lot 3 lies within character, district 4-l2 and the historic districts.

A

And who is here to present this hi? My name is tim brochu with audra.

AA

Architecture, llc, I'm the architect for the project. I also have the contractor.

AA

Larry johnson, here with me, if there's any questions that he can help answer.

AA

um So this was a as you recall, we had, the project is, has been constructed.

AA

um The planning department came out and did their final review and identified a number of of items.

AA

That um were not conforming to the approved htc drawings. We discussed this a bit at the.

AA

Last meeting and you had asked us to go back and look at these items, identify which items we could.

AA

Correct um um and which items you know needed further discussion are needed. Formal approval.

AA

From uh from this commission, so actually nick, if you can go to the page before this.

AA

uh What I've done is I've taken um I've tried to group these items, there's 20 items, I've grouped in.

AA

Into a couple different categories, the first is items that the owner is going to correct.

AA

um The second group is items where we're requesting approval for what's built, um where.

AA

There were objections noted in the october 5th hearing from the board. So if you recall, we had.

AA

Some discussion- and there were some items that that seemed like they weren't going to be very.

AA

Controversial inside some items that concerns were raised, so I've tried to put those up front that.

AA

We can discuss and then there were a handful of items where we did hear objections in that meeting.

AA

um Obviously, you're welcome to comment on them further in this discussion, but um hopefully we.

AA

Can run down through those a little more quickly um and then finally, items that have been completed.

AA

At the bottom here so I can, um I was going to go through them in this order. um I'm happy to switch.

AA

It up, if that's easier for anyone else. So, first of all um what one thing I've done here and I.

AA

Know how you can read it on the screen, but at the top I have um grouped the just the the history of.

AA

The discussions from what the original complaint was, what our original response was. My summary of.

AA

The comments from the last from the october htc meeting and then um any updates on that for for.

AA

The submission, so the first item I had was about that. We had full screens installed on the windows.

AA

The owner is going to go ahead and replace the screens on the street facing windows with half.

AA

Screens, they've actually already ordered them, and so those ones were going to we're going to replace.

AA

um And I guess: how do you want me to go through this yeah? Does anyone do you want to comment on.

AA

Each item as we go through it or you want me to do a quick summary, the owner, correcting items.

C

The owner to correct don't need to be really presented, so it's really about the approval.

C

Requested objections noted and what your response is: okay, so I'll go quickly through these ones. That.

AA

Though is going to correct, um there was a note on the side edition with a piece of door trim.

AA

Where it was one solid piece that you wanted to see, we wanted to see a line between the.

AA

Door trim and the corner board. We have uh cut a reveal into the into the side of that trim piece.

AA

um Okay, so the first item I had for um that there were objections to last time was the chimney.

AA

um Which, if you recall there were two chimneys in the center of the building, one of them prior.

AA

To the this owner purchasing the building one of them had been cut down to the ridgeline and.

AA

Capped and when we got into the building that chimney was in pretty bad shape and.

AA

So they they pulled it down to the basement and removed. What was left of that chimney.

AA

um There were some concerns noted about this. In the last meeting it sounded like we were, there was.

AA

We're close to a consensus that um the commission might accept it, the removal of the chimney, but I.

AA

Wanted to um keep this open for discussion. If um I want to discuss it, what do you do? Each one.

A

Yeah, I think we should do each one or we're going to get lost all right. So we've got this chimney.

F

Two, can I just ask if there was any discussion about creating a faux chimney now that you.

F

Since you took the old one off and my my concern is that it was a little asymmetrical once it was.

F

Chopped off to begin with, but at least there was evidence that that there were two original.

F

Chimneys in the structure and now that history has been erased, so was there any discussion of.

F

Doing a bo chimney up the top, even if it's just replacing a short one.

AA

um I think when we originally presented it, we were presenting it just keeping that chimney as.

AA

It was, I don't think there was just a discussion from the commission about asking us to to is.

AA

That what you're asking to extend the chimney, I guess I guess what I'm saying is that if, if the.

F

Agreement was that the chimney would remain at its six inch or eight inch level, whatever.

F

This is, and you found that not possible, and we were anticipating that a chimney would appear.

F

To be, there is one of the ways of resolving this issue for you to put one there, even if it is faux.

AA

um We, I guess the answer question we didn't discuss that. But again that's what we're.

AA

Promoting to discussions here is there a technical reason that you could not do that at this point,.

AA

um When you say faux chimney, are you talking about essentially a frame with a wood without.

AA

A brick veneer on it, um it's actually fairly common right yeah. I just want to make sure I.

AA

I guess what I'd say: a full brick chimney, I think, would be difficult at this point, but.

R

Yeah framing with with uh with a brick veneer, um I think, is probably feasible.

G

I I personally don't think that it's necessary on this building. It's a small stove chimney that.

G

Is not, in my opinion, a character-defined feature. It would have been great to see it there because.

G

It does still, like you say, document the history of what the heating system was, but.

G

It's not something that would really stand out, as is very important in my opinion, for this.

G

Building, I agree and I think, if you try and build a faux chimney, it's not going to match.

B

The original remaining chimney and I'd rather efforts be put into other items. Yep refilled in.

L

Important at this point, I'm not worried with jimmy okay.

A

um So, let's move on okay, uh dormer windows, um the dormer windows, so there were two separate items.

AA

Related to the dormers, one of them was um looking at the trimet on the dormer and the other was the.

AA

Window profile, the trim we have completed. um If you go to, I think the next page down.

AA

Yeah nick, if you could zoom in to the bottom there, so we have now gone back and added the trim. You.

AA

Can see on the lower right photo consistent with the original approved drawings we had had this.

AA

Trim detail with these this kind of double curve which reflects what's happening in the in the.

AA

The portico town below to some extent [music] um and so that item, which is a separate item.

AA

We think is completed. um The other issue here was the windows themselves originally.

AA

There were two single hung or double hung windows um on either side of with a trim.

AA

Piece in the middle that was taken out and replaced with a single double a paired window.

AA

um There was one comment made in the last hearing about um about a stud pocket being removed. The.

AA

Contractor afterwards um mentioned that he didn't remember taking a set on, I actually found a photo.

AA

Here it's probably hard to see there, but I found a photo of it. It looks like there actually wasn't a.

AA

Stud between those two windows, at least by the time we touched it um so for whatever that's.

A

Right we're taking out a little too literal. I mean what what we are essentially saying is that there.

A

Is a separation between uh windows as opposed to being you know, windows mold together, which.

A

Is the modern way of doing it, but we frequently use that term a stud pocket just to describe some.

A

Trim in between the windows yeah, okay, tim- were these windows approved as square versus vertical.

AA

um They look awfully square, I think, just because it took up the dimension of that of that trim.

AA

There they're the same height as what was there originally the same height in the overall jam.

AA

Width, but I think, because of the way um they're mold together, yeah- and I think part of this might.

AA

Be the perspective of the photo, but um but they are the same, the same height and overall width.

AA

As those original windows in there well, okay, so we have the dormers. Where does everyone general.

A

Feeling here so keep moving, I wanted to say I really appreciate the change to the trim work.

G

um Yes, it looks much nicer than it did before, and so um and and not so weird and plunked on I mean.

G

I'm not really too worried about these windows, because this is obviously a later edition.

G

That you've tried to at least make more attractive and fit into the design of the building itself.

B

Yeah it's a bad dormer from from the start. So um I'm not happy about this one, because.

B

It's such a prominent uh piece on the building, but I can live with it.

H

I appreciate you doing the the detailed framework above the window, though, to match the virgo all.

A

Right so I guess um we could move on, I think there's no major heartburns with 16. Okay. Thank you.

AA

um Salt blocked roof. The next item is the in the rear of the building that little side of it or the.

AA

Side um original edition, the old part of the page, with a I'm sorry, I'm on page seven.

AA

Maybe it jumps at the bottom. I think it's.

AA

There you go, um and so the original building in the back here had.

AA

Probably a series of small additions added to it with some roof lines that looked like they were.

AA

Had been reworked over the years to try to get the drainage to work better, the drainage still.

AA

Wasn't working well and so they removed that portion of the roof on the back of the building.

AA

And replaced it with a with a simple gable, as you can see down in the lower right photo.

AA

um So that was that was the. I think that the concern at the last somebody raised a.

AA

Concern about just the history of of these small additions onto this side building.

AA

um But otherwise you know, we think this is the right thing to do for the roof on this. This back.

AA

Piece of the building remember that david. What do you feel about this? This is it's in the back.

M

Of the house, if, if the rest of this is going to go together, then um I don't see a great complaint.

M

Over it, we certainly haven't lost anything. It is not an original feature to the building. That's.

M

Being hidden, it's just a it's an unnecessary cleaning up that that uh I guess in general,.

M

I don't think that I'm in much of support of, but I'm not going to hold those feet to the fire over.

M

A roof line I think to me. The point is that anybody else is building and doing this sort.

F

Of work in the historic district should understand that you don't just change this sort of thing and.

F

And come back later, because you've basically done something, it's almost impossible to undo.

F

um And, and that should just be understood that you.

F

If you're going to continue to build in this part of town, please do not do this without coming back.

M

AA

um The next item- the rear, portico design, so this is again at the rear of the building facing the.

AA

Train tracks uh there was the original design we had for this rear portico on the approved.

AA

Drawings was more of a flat roof somewhat similar to the the portico on the front of the building.

AA

um At one point, during the construction, they they decided to make it a small gable.

AA

um I guess to get the drainage working and and kind of reflect what they had done on the this.

AA

Other side piece: um the committee was not didn't like the appearance of this last time around.

AA

We have gone back and added some pile esters, which you can see in the top right photo at the building.

AA

um And then we're proposing a revised design for the the gable end of this of this portico. If you.

AA

Go to the next page nick, um so we looked at a couple of of other buildings in the area that.

AA

Have a similar there, you go that have a similar type of sportico on the front of the building.

AA

And I'm just noting here some consistent things that we're seeing, which is kind of an extended.

AA

Rake overhang with it with a raking, cornice and then a cornice that comes across the the.

AA

Face of it down at the gable end and so we're proposing, if you go to the next page, please.

AA

uh We're proposing adding some trim work to do to do something similar to that where we're.

AA

um You know extending that rake out a little bit um extending the cornice across the bottom of this.

AA

um And just trying to to give it a little more detail um on the face of that, and I.

AA

Have a next page, it's just a detail of some dimensions of some of that trim work, but.

AA

um You know the contract will need to work with, what's there and what's built, but we've.

AA

Kind of made some assumptions about how to detail that. So so I guess we're asking in.

AA

This meeting, if, if that type of design would be um approved, it would make this item acceptable.

I

Okay, I can agree with it. I think that is nicely detailed and apply last sorts of things through.

B

The improvements that uh I think we're looking for at least I'm looking for.

A

This side, I think it's a good improvement. I appreciate the effort.

A

Okay, so you've got your approval to do your proposed gable trim right. Thank you. Okay,.

A

And you've already done the pile lasters, yes, yeah.

AA

Okay, um the next item now this is in the group of um items where um we didn't hear any objections.

AA

In the last meeting, but obviously if you know let us know if there's anything else, that is a concern.

AA

First is the windows on the main building? um These were originally six by six over six kind of vinyl.

AA

Replacement windows that we replaced with two over two windows to match the approved windows around.

AA

The rest of the building and the last hearing it sounded like that was viewed as an improvement.

AA

AA

Excuse me htc, preferred replacement of these windows. Is that.

AA

um The our the original hearings that we had on this. Yes, um when we were discussing the windows.

AA

Using these windows around the building the owner at that time, hadn't committed to replacing these.

AA

Front windows on the building, okay, and as I recall you said you know it will be nice if.

AA

You, if you could replace those and so during the course of construction, they decided to commit.

AA

To that and just made them the same as the other windows around the building, which we believe are.

AA

Are more historically accurate for the building.

L

Okay, this item: this is on the front of the building. There's a side porch and there's a.

AA

Door there that's set back about maybe 16 feet from the front of the building under the porch.

AA

um There was a comment that the door was changed to a nine light. This was actually the original.

AA

Door there that they that they didn't replace so they've painted it now and painted this green door.

AA

So again, we're keeping that 869 by instead of the I think we had a two light door that was shown in.

AA

The drawings right, so you kept the original the door that was there. Yes, that's fine, okay,.

AA

um The next item- ground level- deck railings emitted- um you can kind of see in the picture.

AA

On the left that there had, along that porch that we just talked about there had been a fence.

AA

um That separated off the back at the back area and removing the fence. We thought we.

AA

Were going to need to add a railing, but we realized it's. We only had about 17 inches.

AA

Of height there, and so we left the railing off and just left it as an open side of that porch.

B

No objection, no objections over here.

A

It's flying right along what's up um the next item, uh the basement window, this is on the.

AA

Side of the building there was a basement window opening that had been boarded up.

AA

um At one point I discussed with the building inspector, um I think they were directed to just.

AA

To just brick it in because it's so close to the ground there right yeah, moving right along.

AA

Okay and the rear of the building window above the portico moved further up.

AA

um I think, on our original drawings, we had these windows aligned with the window on the.

AA

Side that little side back building piece there are different floor heights in those.

AA

Two parts of the building- and so we had a raised- they raised these up to get a little.

AA

More sill height off of the floor in the interior of the building. In that part, okay,.

AA

uh Next item deck emitted: this is again in the rear of the building. On the little that little.

AA

Side edition we just talked about with the gable. um Originally there we had a bulkhead going in.

AA

Between between the two stairs here, you can see in the plan on the top left um during shortly.

AA

After we got into construction, we relocated that bulkhead to the other side, which we got approved.

AA

Through a site plan approval but didn't come back to htc, but because of that, we're able to simplify.

AA

The deck here the reason that deck was laid out, the way it was was just to get out of the door.

AA

And turn the corner and get down the stairs of the parking lot without running into the bulkhead.

AA

So we've now just simplified that to it just a single a step in the landing up into that building.

A

Seeing a lot of nodding on that, I hope we're not falling asleep.

AA

um Portico door change to nine light. This is the rear again that rear cortico.

AA

At the rear of the building, this was before we put the pilasters back in.

AA

um But this was actually, I think in the report. This might have gotten confused with that other.

AA

Door on the side porch, this is actually a new uh four light door that we put in, um which you know.

AA

We think reflects the look of the windows um of the two over two windows on the building. So oh.

A

Well, I guess that's all right, so it's some kind of uh the next item. There were three items related to.

AA

On the third floor on the side of the building, there are three items related to this: the small.

AA

Deck that's up there. One is that the deck it was reduced in size. You can see the lower right.

AA

um The original deck the railing was kind of bumping into that that eve return.

AA

We pulled the deck in a little bit so that it sat inside those eve returns, and so we.

AA

Reduced the size a little bit because it it seemed to be a better detail. There.

AA

um The deck door changed to a four light. Again, that's a similar door to the one we've.

AA

Put down on the on the back of the building just for context there, I think the original drawing.

AA

Showed a a two light door, and this again is a four half glass, four light door: okay,.

AA

um And then the last item here was a small window next to the door, which you can see in.

AA

That the last one is a little small window next to that door that wasn't original. That.

AA

We thought was more appropriate to remove so window. Remove everybody.

O

Okay, uh the remaining items are ones that we believe we've we've satisfactorily completed.

AA

One is to ride iron fence, we talked about last time. It seemed like people were happy with that.

AA

um The next one is the dormer trim, which we talked about again. There were separate issues.

AA

Items for the window and the um and the trim on the dormer, um so we did add that trim at.

AA

That that third floor dormer um the next one was it's a that side deck on the third floor.

AA

um There was a note about the another note here about the size of the deck which I think.

AA

I addressed already and then there was a note about the column. The approved drawings noted.

AA

That the column that the new column up on the third floor deck would match the column down.

AA

Below the existing column on the porch down below and then the discussion in the last.

AA

Meeting we talked about adding an astragal, you know banding around it below the the capital.

AA

um To give a little more detail, and so that's what you can see down there on the on the lower right that we've now gone in and added back in.

AA

And we did that on some of the other columns around the back particle as well.

A

A good thing to do um so on 19. The second floor columns are not lining up. Is that.

A

um And and there's really no way of correcting that is that correct the the column alignment.

AA

um um I think they, basically they located the column where they had structural support.

AA

Below I, don't I'm not sure exactly what that's referring to. I think that had to.

AA

Do with the again the size of the deck which, which we changed the way it was drawn also.

AA

What's that, could it be the way that it was drawn on the.

AA

um Yeah, I'm not sure if it's talking about looking at it from the front alignment left to right or.

AA

Looking at it from the side, you know where that's located relative to the size of the deck, so at any.

AA

Rate, I you know, I think it's I think it's bearing where it needs to bear on the structure below.

AA

And I think it's more or less where there was a deck support there previously even.

AA

Though it wasn't much of a deck, so we've gone through the list.

A

Does anybody else have anything to say on the list.

A

And I think it's been said that hoping in the future, when you're in portsmouth edge.

A

Keep an eye on the what's going on.

A

So it pleases the board and have a motion. Oh I'm, very sorry. Is there anybody in the.

A

Public that would like to speak to these changes on islington street.

A

T

Page trace27 hancock street the parts of a puzzle which you've also graciously listened to tonight.

T

One after the other, after the other 19 or 20 of them, did I count. Finally, you've been wonderful and.

T

Each and every one of them are little and tiny and you've been really gracious as a board to accept.

T

Each little point, but it's like water dripping, it's like me, showing up at the podium every.

T

Time that it goes on and on and on the fact of the matter is gentlemen. Yes, you were nice enough to to.

T

Take care of what the building department found, but the fact of the matter is the ladies and.

T

Gentlemen of this commission come here every two weeks and they are quasi-judicial. They.

T

Are important to this city and when the chair spoke and said, please pay attention to what.

T

We tell you to do and when commissioner deering said the same thing, the fact of.

T

The matter is, they donate their time to every person in this room every two weeks to see that.

T

Portsmouth maintains the historic integrity that it should and they decide if it should be modern.

T

And to sit there and say: oh well, if we make the mistake today, it's okay, we'll just go back and.

T

Say we're sorry, you know it's easier to make the mistake and say we're sorry that shows no.

T

Respect at the point that you build it now, it doesn't make me very popular, but I'm here to.

T

Say tonight these people volunteer their time and they deserve the respect that each and every one.

T

Of us has given them when we stand before you all, as I step stood before this board 13 14 years ago,.

T

And so it bothers me to see you all so graciously say we can forgive this. We can forgive that.

T

I agree with you, but I remember this project because the windows suddenly weren't long enough.

T

Or tall enough and everybody went ballistic because we suddenly said: oh, my god,.

T

The windows went in and on purpose, they weren't the right size.

T

So I'm saying for anyone out there considering airing first and finding forgiveness later.

T

Please don't, ladies and gentlemen, it takes their valuable time just like I am tonight.

T

Don't do it respect this board. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much I'll just say. Clapping.

H

um Isn't part of the process here I know the mayor's asked that we don't clap on.

H

Controversial issues so clapping isn't respecting these chambers or respecting the sport. Thank you.

U

Okay, esther kennedy, 41 pickering ave and I just want to support those commissioners.

U

That want to make sure that people ask ahead of time. um You know I have a neighbor.

U

Who did not follow protocol and end up putting his fists through a window.

U

When the acc was visiting, I think probably one of you remember the scene.

U

um At because he was asked to reap do things appropriately.

U

He's still my neighbor across the water, and he did do it and fixed it, and people moved on.

U

So there have been other people in the past that have been asked to take care of things.

U

So I would just kind of appreciate I appreciate those people have spoken up.

U

And I would say I support you, but I would hope that other people do not follow suit.

U

Again, we're fighting to keep our historical neighborhoods. Thank you, okay. Thank you very much.

A

So, um since no one else is speaking, I'm going to close this week, yeah we have to look online.

C

Okay, nobody has their hand up all right. I'm going to close this public hearing.

A

And I look for a motion, um we do have a list of the improvements and the.

A

Changes and things that we're willing to accept. So if we could just have a motion.

G

It's a move that we approve this application as presented.

G

I don't think we had any issues with anything or stipulation should we.

A

No stipulation seconded um all those in favor. My findings are fast. Oh I'm finding the fact.

A

I'm sorry um uh all again, these are minor issues. Yes, it's out of step of how we normally do things.

G

And we did address this at past meetings, so thank you for the support, but um we covered.

G

All of that and all of these I think, we've worked together to make sure that everything maintain.

G

Complements and enhances the architectural and historic character of the building um and.

G

Has compatibility of design with the surrounding properties.

A

Okay, all those in favor say aye aye. Yes,.

A

So um you have your approval for those changes to your original proposal. Now.

A

Putting things away here, that's not freaking right, okay,.

A

So this is work sessions, new business work session, requested by 95 daniel street llc owner for.

A

Property located at 95-99 daniel street, wherein permission is requested to allow the demolition of.

A

The existing structures on both lots and the new construction of two new multi-family structures, as.

A

Per plans on filing the planning department said properties shown on assess a map 107 as lot 6-7.

A

Lies within character, district, 4 and historic districts. So who is here to speak on this.

A

Yeah we're going to go down all right, so we're gonna does mark want to be yeah. Okay,.

B

AB

Good evening everybody, I hope you can hear me, you can hear me mark perfect.

A

Introduce yourself and we'll just get going mind the microphones, yeah.

J

You're passing out paper no gotcha, so my name is richard dejarin, um I'm here with sean peters.

J

The property owner, as well as my boss, mark ginini, who is currently on zoom, who will be leading the.

J

Presentation we work for mchenry architecture as the architects for this project, so if mark.

J

Can speak, go ahead, yeah! Terrific. Thank you very much for the introduction richard.

AB

Sorry I couldn't be there tonight. um I had uh prior plans before the agenda came out.

AB

um So tonight we're here, for you know, 95 and 99 daniel streets.

AB

um In your packet in front of you, we've got some existing conditions, as well as some schematic.

AB

Design some contextual study that we did uh regarding the neighborhood and the proposed.

AB

Structure, our designs that we have as well as a structural assessment by gorham structural.

AB

That was completed as part of this. As far as the building history uh 95 daniel.

AB

Street who's, a carpenter gothic building, which was built approximately around 1850.

AB

uh This was owned by the russo family we had written in here about 1965, but apparently it was.

AB

uh Much before that john so might have acquired the building for his family about that time.

AB

I think 99 daniel street. um Again the reports were the advocates, as well as the tax assessment card.

AB

Shows the building approximately at the age of 1850 as you'll see once we get into further into.

AB

The presentation here that particular building doesn't show up on this lot until about 1920, we.

AB

Did have a sidewalk with the committee last week and as part of that walk, it was noted that the.

AB

Building might have been moved to the property, so it has a it was built much earlier and then.

AB

Moved to the property about 1920.. Thank you as a general project. We're here to discuss with you.

AB

Tonight is the removal of both these structures at 95 and 99 indiana street, and then we're proposing.

AB

Two federalist townhouses that would be joined on the lot line, since this is to currently two lots.

AB

And then, as we go through the presentation, we'll note some of the reasons for the demolition you.

AB

Know some of the site constraints which will trigger code requirements. That might you know.

AB

Have adverse effects to to keeping the structures, as well as the structural, some of the structural.

AB

Deficiencies that are noted in the in the assessments, uh some of that due to deferred mains.

AB

In some of that age, if we go to page two in the presentation, uh one back, it should be a site plan.

D

Yeah there should be a sheep that shows the site plan.

J

Maybe if you go well we'll skip over that now for the moment and come back to us uh and start.

AB

With just the existing building photographs so uh on the upper, and just it will hit these briefly.

AB

But in the upper left hand corner there, you've got the daniel street view of both buildings.

AB

um The the russo um building on the on the right will refer to it as.

AB

um Is a you know, a carpenter, gothic style house with those the gothic windows on the front which.

AB

Is again as repeated on one another time on the side, the storefront was added. Obviously, sometime.

AB

Later in the building, obviously not original same with the porch on the eastern side, the.

AB

Left side of this photo that was originally just a covered porch that was infilled at some point.

AB

And siding has also been changed, we haven't looked, we haven't tested it to see if it's.

AB

Like an asbestos type siding, but it is like a manufactured platform type um and then uh left.

AB

Of that 99 is, you know, kind of an unusual um form. As far as the the building looks you know there.

AB

Is a main gable that kind of goes up and down the lot with this perpendicular gable on the.

AB

Front that is a little bit taller than the rest of the building in the front porch entry there.

AB

uh The middle upper photo there, you kind of see how close the buildings are on the left is.

AB

Again, 95- and this is right now- this is the stair tower- go between the floors uh right now. This.

AB

Is leaning about four inches out of plum and the floor itself on the second floor is also a couple.

AB

Inches out of plum again, this is due to uh based on the structural evaluation, the potentially a.

AB

Rotten sill, or even no real foundation under that part, that was appears to be an addition based on.

AB

When we were inside the building, looking above the ceilings in there, you can see that the original.

AB

Kind of main gable, uh perpendicular daniel street uh there's existing shingles up there. So whenever.

AB

They added that perpendicular gable there. They basically left the shingles on and framed over. It.

AB

um The upper right upper right hand photo. This, shows the 99 property and its proximity to what.

AB

I'll call the colby's building adjacent there that bump out that you'll see there would show up on.

AB

The site plan, but we don't seem to have that this is basically that entire perpendicular structure.

AB

There is over the property line, so that's ranges between two and a half and three feet. It's over.

AB

The property line onto the colby's building property, so that is one of the site constraints.

AB

um That those properties have uh just quickly in the lower left hand uh picture there. You can see.

AB

The kind of a couple of additions that have been put on the rear of the russo building again that.

AB

Shows up in the uh middle photo and and really on the bottom left-hand photo. If we go to the next.

AB

Page 82: this is just to help kind of uh confirm and and show how that the uh 99 building you know.

AB

Was not didn't show up on the 1887 or the 1910 sanborn maps, so it was really there in 1920 is.

AB

The first time that we see it and at that time that entire lot was um it was a single lot with.

AB

The called the colby's building so those were joined, or that was added to the single time.

AB

And I got a 1980 sandbar map there so mark uh respectfully I see what the next stage is.

A

And uh so respectfully, I think that it's time that we discussed these, the removal of these buildings.

A

um So- and I just I just make a couple more comments since we didn't have the site plan.

A

We don't have the site plan, but we passed it off. Okay, all right, I mean if I could just.

AB

Comment a couple other things on the removal before you start on that you know some of the.

AB

Other site constraints that we have really are the proximity of the buildings to the existing.

AB

uh Property alliance they're in almost all cases under three feet, which you know require.

AB

um Modifying the existing walls roof overhangs, so that they're, you know, non-combustible materials.

AB

Firebated, as well as either modifying or reducing the number of existing openings.

AB

So those are just some of the things that you know we've been looking at here. So if.

AB

You want to discuss the demo part um you have to demolish the buildings before.

A

Who can build a new construction and existing conditions of the buildings? It's nice for us.

A

To know and yeah, I assume we'll have some comments about the inside of the building.

A

But whether or not you have three foot side setbacks or whatever I mean there's.

A

Something in real estate called caveat emptor. I don't know if you've heard that.

A

Fire. Beware, and it's uh it's! You know it's real.

A

So, who wants to start off the discussion of these buildings? Yes, martin.

B

I've been on the board for five years and get a lot of criticism from the public about how.

B

This board is, is allowing developers to cut out the historic fabric of the city.

B

In those five years, I don't think we've lost any historic fabric, usually it's empty.

B

Lots or or something that's fairly, modern, that's being taken down to to accommodate.

B

A new development- or you know it's just something that was built in the last 20 years.

B

This would be the first time that someone has proposed removing real historic fabric.

B

To develop a lot, and so I cannot support that and I'm sure everyone else.

B

Will tell you I'll let them speak for themselves, but this is historic fabric.

B

I mean even your own page too, just lays it out pre-civil war, so I'll. Let others speak.

A

Ing, let's go around sure um yeah. This is a hard sell.

G

But- and [music] you know, you've got two two buildings, obviously on a very challenging site.

G

um I'm glad that you um included the structural reports for each one, because and thank you also.

G

For having us go through the site visit and being able to walk through, it's really.

G

Helpful, even though we don't really have much to say about the interior of the building, but.

G

It's it's helpful to be there and experience it and see it and yes, they're old. Yes, they.

G

Have structural deficiencies but they still have their character. um They, you know in a lot of ways.

G

This is a major part of the makeup of our historic district. um You have two wooden structures here,.

G

One was moved, but the other one you know was built amongst a lot of the brick building sort of after.

G

The brick act sort of faded away, and so it's one of the few. These are some of the few brick.

G

I mean uh non-brick structures that we have in our downtown that are historic and one of the few that.

G

This you know, the way you call carpenter gothic is is pretty rare for our collection of buildings.

G

It really represents something that we don't have a lot of um so again. You know, you've got.

G

Some structural challenges here- it's part of the building being in the neighbor's property line- is.

G

um I don't know how you deal with that, but um you know they need a lot of work, but I can't support.

G

Tearing them down, and certainly not replacing them with a larger brick building, that's totally even.

G

Though it's sort of it has some of the historic character of the surrounding properties, it doesn't.

G

Reflect what's here now and um you know so I would, if you're going to replace if these have to come.

G

Down, I would want to see very similar things in size and scale and form to what's there now.

G

um But it's going to be a big hurdle for me to be able to accept the demolition of these buildings.

L

um This picture is daniel street and daniel street's a unique street, and we know us.

L

Across the street, but that section represents.

L

Some great history, it was the way the city developed and I hate to see it disappear into.

L

Grow houses from boston or philly, or something completely modern, along a unique, unique street.

F

I don't think there's anything I can really add um in support of not taking these buildings.

F

Down that hasn't already been expressed, I think the point that dan is making about.

F

The variety that, even in just this one block of daniel street, to lose that would be a big shame.

M

I I it's just too special a thing.

M

I think it's I've been wondering what it was going to be like for 30 years.

M

Wondering what was going to happen when this day came, it seems pretty simple. I don't see it.

H

Rich yeah, I don't um there's so much history here. I don't see it'd be very hard to convince.

H

Me that they had to tear these down they'd have the report doesn't say they need to be torn down.

H

It says there are some deficiencies, um but again this is this- is the historic fabric of downtown.

H

Portsmouth, this is why we have a historic district commission. um I will not support the.

H

Removal of these buildings yeah, and I would make that unanimous. um I think the challenge.

A

That you're going to have is with 99 and obviously you have to do structural work to it first, but.

A

I might add that we've looked at the captain uh thompson house on pleasant street 149. I think 179.

A

179 and the one that is uh putting slate on the roof and um inside of that, in spite of being a.

A

Mansion and looking you know from a distance like this is just a really fine house, the inside of.

A

That house was so dry rotted. I think that they've ended up replacing everything on the first floor.

A

And um sills joyce posts everything. So that's what happens, and so I think that that's what.

A

You're looking at here and certainly 99 with you, know, better windows and such could be.

A

It would certainly fit in a bit better than those 1950 editions, but um I think we have a unanimous.

A

Board, so it's really up to you to figure out how you're going to use these buildings.

A

You know what you're going to do to them next door, just next door. Quite recently, this board.

M

Reviewed an application, I'm sure you know, um of emilio's building, nope yeah, no idea and uh and.

M

And in the process of doing that, an awful lot of extra effort beyond just a simple construction.

M

Project is being put into that building to keep it the way that it is, it seems like.

M

There's a at least the potential for that kind of commitment, preserving eclectic pieces of our.

M

Architecture, our streetscapes and and to say just because I think it's charming the.

M

Proposal that you brought, uh but I don't see the I don't think how it makes sense.

AB

Yes- and I guess from what I'm hearing I mean the whole our, I guess part of.

AB

Our reason for providing the two design options was to show more than you know,.

AB

The traditional uh steps in each you know that the htc has of just.

AB

Showing a a massing white massing box, so we wanted to show you at least something.

AB

um You know a couple options of what might go there um in replacement, but it sounds like you.

AB

If this at this point, you're not interested in reviewing those options at this point.

AB

That's correct: there's no option that includes the demolition of those buildings, unanimous.

L

So kind of a conversation stopper, isn't it.

M

We might mention, I was on the board at the time that what is it 100 or 110 state street? That's.

F

Now the school of the preschool that building at least from the outside, looked like it had.

F

Major structural deficiencies, sagging roof and all that sort of stuff and look at it now it's.

F

Just it's beautiful from the front, you would barely know that anything had happened to it and.

F

And it's a thriving business and it's a small and very small small appears to be doing very.

F

Well, so I think that there are examples in the city of um wonderful reuse and rehabilitation.

F

Of a building of this type and to my knowledge, the only other gothic we've got in the historic.

F

District is nancy emerson's house on islington street next to the bread box, the purple one.

J

Can you see that address one more time? I don't remember the number she's to the left of the.

F

Bread box on islington- oh I'm, sorry, it's purple! The first, oh first. The address you mentioned.

J

Somewhere on state street, I just looked it up: 100 oh yeah, 100 states, more chapel hits yeah.

A

So uh I think that we uh we could open this up to the public and and essentially continue.

A

This to another meeting, so if anybody in the public would like to speak on this.

O

Tom evans and the butter.

O

Of this property, I speak only to item 95 or address 95. The barbershop.

O

It's not only historic, it's also distinctive how many carpenter gothic buildings. Do you.

O

Know in downtown portsmouth, I don't know of any now, there's one on islington way down. uh It's.

O

Probably in the 700 blocks, but it's it's a quite different kind of carpenter, coffee- and this has.

O

A simplicity and also a kind of elegance to it in its simplicity, uh you start down this road.

O

Have we forgotten the north end completely.

O

I don't have any more anything more to say. I don't think if there is anything.

O

More to say, thank you all right. Everybody else.

I

I'm merchant candy vice president of the portsmouth historical society.

I

And I agree with the board that these two properties should in fact be rehabilitated.

I

Put back to use, but they are iconic buildings in portsmouth, especially 95.. I mean, if you want to.

I

To recognize and memorialize american conservatism in the 20th century, there's john's barber shop.

D

Yeah you think people are going to let you tear that down. You better think of another thought.

I

That is never going to happen in portsmouth.

A

Anybody else like to speak.

V

Good evening again, rick beck said 1395 islington street. uh I guess I would. I would just basically.

V

Say to the new owners um you've taken on a building um that is part of portsmouth.

V

A building that is over 100 years old, uh I would, I would express to the new owners.

V

To take advantage of what you have celebrate, it restore a very unique and rare set of buildings.

V

That tell a story of portsmouth I've had the honor of restoring a couple of buildings. This.

V

Board actually was a part of that in the driscoll house that was over a meeting house. I actually.

V

Had dave adams take a look at the building when we were in demolition phase and looked at some.

V

Of the uniqueness in there and said, that's an awful lot of money to go into a building like.

V

That but it was worth it. I had a client that literally spent an obscene amount of money and.

V

I spent the better half of a year and a half restoring that building. To probably one of the.

V

Most prominent buildings in the south end of town- I know I'm going to brag about it because I did.

V

It, but because of that, I actually was honored by being contacted to go and restore literally.

V

A 1740 farmhouse in kensington, which I've now been the better part of a year. I am now because.

V

Of that building and restoring it and rejoicing and celebrating it have two other projects that.

V

Have come forward actually this evening was given a phone call by somebody that was moving.

V

Here and just recently bought one in the historic district in portsmouth, and I am going to have the.

V

Unique pleasure in about a year to actually restore an old house on the north mill pond.

V

Portsmouth is I'm so glad to be a part of it. I would love to express any ideas or interest that.

V

The new owners would like to go and have with it. I could give you some views on it, things that board.

V

Members like and what they don't like, I seem to know a little bit about some of the board and.

V

Its character and what is required celebrate it, don't knock it down. Thank you all right.

A

Please introduce yourself karen buffard 79 daniel street. I just want to speak to the.

AC

Process because I think you all have really said what I wanted to hear, which is you're going to.

AC

Protect the historic houses in the district, but I I just want to say that it was important to see.

AC

The reports on it, but everything that you showed basically was evident through a casual observation.

AC

And to go ahead and buy it and then expect to do something. So dramatic is really sort of shocking.

AC

For someone who really appreciates the historic buildings- and um I I do hope that you can learn to.

AC

Appreciate what you have and enhance it and never think about tearing those buildings down. Thank you.

R

R

Hi once again duncan mccallum 536 state street, um I think that this board gets it. So I don't think.

R

It's necessary for me to spend a lot of time here. uh These uh two buildings, and especially.

R

Of course, the john russo's barber shop are as one of you one of you put it the historical.

R

Fabric of portsmouth, for those of us who knew john russo, that building is practically like a shrine.

R

We cut my hair for 25 years and, as I'm sure you all well know, it was more than just haircuts.

R

That you got when you got when that you got when you went to john's barber shop. There was a sign.

R

On top of uh top of the wall, that said, you know free parking for republicans, democrats vehicles.

R

Will be towed and like by comments like that, he would say he was a character. He was the.

R

Hub of political political conversation, and for that reason, among other reasons that you.

R

Yourselves will mentioned. I don't think that that building should be touched. Thank you all right.

R

T

I never thought I'd page trace, 27 hancock street. I never thought I'd tell this tale out of school, so.

T

Publicly, my husband is a staunch democrat. There you have it. I am an independent. The fact of the.

T

Matter is john russo cut my husband's hair. Since the day we moved to portsmouth. He, like everyone.

T

Else, adored going to that building in part because of the architecture, he was scared to death of john.

T

Russo- and he was even more fearful that john would find out that he was a democrat, not a republican.

T

um The fact of the matter is, we also came to this town because of a house.

T

And if you think those two buildings are bad, there are a few people around this table that could tell.

T

You exactly how bad the house was when we bought it. We had back foundation. Caving in there was a.

T

Foot of water in the basement, and I regularly had young people, tell me that as even younger.

T

People they'd hunt frogs in the basement. So two years later we restored a great house.

T

And I'm hoping that you guys can see the same thing with those structures.

T

They're not exactly maybe what you wanted, they're, maybe a little small for your purposes.

T

But the fact of the matter is they're part of portsmouth.

T

The fact of the matter is mr mcnabb was able to put his building where it is today.

T

As much as some people love it and some people don't because it was a parking lot.

T

This is not a parking lot. This is john's barber and.

T

Please don't tell my husband, I gave away the story about john. Thank you.

A

W

Hey trejo 280 south street, built in 1850 on the national historic register. Please save.

W

This just say: no thank you to all of you for your opinion. Thank you.

U

Esther kennedy 41 pickering ave. The reason we came tonight was.

U

Because of this building- and I want to thank the board for their decision.

A

All righty, so I think we've heard everybody from the public.

A

C

Yep, no one's got their hand up okay. So I'm going to uh close.

A

This work session and look for what would you like.

A

In general continuance, or are you realistically going to be ready in three weeks with something.

C

Else probably be a little longer yeah. Why don't we continue to january sure that would be ideal yeah.

D

Unless mark has another and seconded okay, all those in favor all right, okay against.

A

So uh you have your continuance till january. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.

H

We have some issues.

X

uh So um some of us tried to do a sidewalk this afternoon, not having gotten the message.

F

um But we couldn't help but notice that even with our flashlights, we really couldn't see anything so.

F

um Nick asked me to raise the general issue of oh remind me I'll remind you. Excuse me to remind okay.

F

Nick you're reminded go ahead. Well, yeah. I think a couple questions about marcy street because I.

C

Wasn't here when you guys reviewed that- and I I think you wanted to go to the site in that.

C

Particular case to look at the citing request made by the applicant for the hardy, not just in the.

C

Side yard, but maybe on the whole building, I'm not exactly sure, but it was a siding inspection uh as.

C

To why you asked for a site visit, so that's question one. Do we really need to do that.

C

And if we do need to do it, could we do it individually, given the houses right on the.

C

Street, uh so we because we have a daylight savings problem now and is it really worth.

C

Having a weekend meeting just to get us together for 15 minutes to look at the exterior of that.

C

Building, I'm thinking not but that's question. One question two is going to be what what are.

C

We going to do for site visits for the next six months that we don't have enough light.

C

What's the preference of the of the board or the commission uh in respect to time of day day week.

C

And we need to think about that when we're deciding whether we really need one versus.

C

Just individually doing a drive-by, which most of the time works right unless we're needing.

C

To go inside, like we did at 95 right. Most of these can work like the 40 pleasant street was.

C

Canceled, so I have a third question. I haven't answered any of the first two yet because I.

C

Haven't stopped talking, but yeah 40 pleasant street was on the agenda because we asked them.

C

uh You guys asked them to show a full mock-up of the lights from the top to the bottom, not.

C

The whole building, but something that would be representative of what they're asking for.

C

Because they only had that one light which isn't even the size of the light they're going to use.

C

So today they were asked, hey, are you? Are you guys ready uh and they said we're ready? We think, but we.

C

Haven't heard from our distributor that he's going to show up with the lights, but we're not going to.

C

Put any at the top, so it'll only be a partial, so my recommendation at two o'clock or whatever, when.

C

He got back to me was not to do it until we have we need in my mind, we need to see all three lights.

C

In order to really see what's going to happen and just interrupt yeah, but that actually we'd like to.

M

Do in the dark right? Yes exactly so that could be done at six o'clock, so I'm I'm they're going to do.

C

That for december, so just before the meeting yeah, it's five minutes drive by walk by but I'll set. It.

C

Up for six, so everybody can be there, so they can hit a switch because I I don't know what they're.

C

Doing and we can ask them and there might be something missing and you know whatever it'll.

C

Take five minutes but that one's easy, because it's a as dave said a night meeting yeah see I prefer.

A

Like I prefer something like that, 6 30., I mean it's. My own personal thing is: I have to eat dinner.

A

I mean I I you know being perfectly honest, I I have a blood sugar problem. If I don't eat dinner,.

A

I don't know what I'll turn into so. Essentially um you know, six o'clock is just I mean I go. I drive.

A

Back and then I drive back here again, I just don't well, six o'clock works. If you have to be here at 6.

A

20. six o'clock works. If you live in the south end, oh well, you wouldn't be going home from six to six.

C

Twenty right, I probably wouldn't so I'd have to eat it, but that's only for the night ones. We don't.

A

Know if we don't have daylight after just to get this over with I mean I can you know, I was that's.

A

What I was going to do tonight is he you know matter of fact, I did eat 4 30., which is weird.

A

um I would also like to say that that the fact that you called and this guy goes well we're.

A

Really not ready, which means that we could have gone to 40 pleasant street and they.

A

Wouldn't have been ready, that's disturbing, and um you know the marcy street thing. Yeah.

A

I mean we can just look at it individually, yeah yeah, so that so let's go to the that. I think.

C

That's the answer to the first two right: they got to get the lights set up right, we'll go with six.

C

O'clock right and we'll set that up and let you know the other one you can go. Look at yourself.

C

um I don't think the owner's gonna have any wisdom to give you uh that he can't do.

C

When he's here, actually the problem with the martha street is the contractor. Okay. So then,.

C

We'll just be cognizant moving forward for any any future site visits in the.

C

Next, five months- and I think it's really time that I remind us- actually I'm not sure.

A

If we've even had any identification in a long time, I mean I've got my back foreign.

F

Thing as long as as long as the applicants are made aware, I mean when I do a drive-by. I try not.

F

To intrude on the property because they never know exactly when we're coming. But I think when.

F

Somebody when we request a site visit and the applicant says yes, that they expect that we will.

F

Actually intrude on the property I mean not in the house, but that we will be walking all the way.

F

Around it, we'll have our ideas with us, but that's different than us, just driving agreed yeah, but we.

A

All must you know, I mean remember realize is that we have the right to do it. It's in the ordinance.

A

As soon as they make up that application to the historic district commission, we as.

A

Members have a right also. I was denied access in lexington massachusetts because it turns.

M

Out there that you don't have a right, I was hired by these I'd, encourage you to knock on.

C

The door yeah, that's a someone like martin might live there and you'll be in trouble.

M

All right, I'm back in the old days we used to have site walks on saturdays yeah,.

M

At the moment, I think it's charming to have the conversation. I don't give.

M

A damn I'm a retired guy. No me too, I'm just asking all right and it's not like.

G

Never darkness in the afternoons before our meetings before anyway, so I I don't remember.

G

Exactly what we've done in the past, but I think that we, if it's, I think we have done.

C

Some weekends, I think we've done we've scheduled a weekend and if that works great and we're not.

A

Then some will go under case by case I. I will tell you that 172 pleasant street, which we went.

A

And looked at david and I and and everyone else didn't get the notice or something like that. It.

A

Was kind of dangerous, you know we had. We were walking around that building and- and it was dark.

A

You know, and the ground is not even and so the the other thing that I would like to say is: we've had.

A

A number of times where we just appointed one or two people, and then you can give a report yeah. I.

A

Remember that you appointed me to go. Look at the church um and windows yeah all of those windows in.

A

That building I wasn't here for marcy. That's why I'm a little yeah! That's why we wanted that? Okay,.

B

Could there be a notification via text for these last minute, like I may get one.

B

No, the only uh dave adams.

G

Can't you can't text and I never answered yeah somebody's bounced back and said it.

C

Was a landline, but I saw a text from you in the whatever. Well, the only thing that.

A

You know I got from, you is: take it easy for a bit, see you, oh no, I didn't got it and got.

C

Back to me, danza can I go case by case basis. Yeah, that's what it was case. Okay,.

E

We need a thread yeah.

C

Whatever it wasn't, a group text.

C

It's good feedback, hey, let's margo has one more thing and then I've gotta get a vote out of you.

C

On the clg application, because I want to get into this okay council, so let's margo you want.

F

To join what yeah, so I just said, um while we're like officially still running the people at 249,.

F

Pleasant street, I just wanted to give them a big thumbs up, because that house is really looking.

F

Fantastic um and then I I wanted to float the idea of um setting aside some time if we get a.

F

Slow month to do a review of some of the bigger infill projects that we've done over the past.

F

Couple of years, ones that have been approved and actually have been completed and to take a look at.

F

How are they doing? Were they successful? What could we possibly learn from them, um particularly maybe.

F

In the way of the use of new materials, things that were haven't been, you know: how does that.

F

Really turn out and should we should, should we be more specific about how people install these new.

F

Materials now that we see what they actually look like, so I just wanted to float that idea.

F

That's great the north end, brick market. You know it's a lot to look at islington street.

C

And the end of state street, which is 10 years old, but it's worth looking at commons, yep, yep, okay,.

B

An issue on the table, I'm sorry, I'm now going 30 seconds. There were some comments from the public.

B

Yeah they get thrown out, we eat them. Then we they're just hanging out there. Is there.

B

A point that maybe we could address some of these comments or have the applications.

A

Other than how you did it in the subsequent application, I mean, I think I heard a response to.

C

Some of the public comments and your response to the applicant for the demolition. No, no I'm talking.

B

About the brains avenue some of the comments made there. Yes, um you might let the applicant.

B

Address some of those uh we might address some of those and some sometimes we do before you close.

G

There is sometimes they especially carla people like to frequently we'll we'll.

A

um Come back well, I can't. I can't imagine in that case that the applicant and his representative.

C

Weren't fully cognizant of everything that was said and we're we're semi-shell-shocked.

C

And didn't have anything to respond to at that point that I haven't already said. I don't want.

C

To speak for her, but I I think I I think if they wanted to say something as a response.

C

To the public comment they would, they would have said something so number one number one.

A

I did say at the end that you know you've got a number of opinions from us and you've heard.

A

The public uh on the massing of the building, so I did say that so that kind of you know.

A

Brought it all together and, and the other thing is, is no, I don't want to refute people.

A

Giving comments, I don't we don't need to have arguments I'll just say we brought this up to.

H

The city council, the public comment and we're afraid of getting in cognitive discussion.

H

um The mayor the chair, has taken some points to clarify some point. You know if there was some.

H

Misunderstanding or a point was made that was inaccurate, um especially if it's something I.

H

Saw the master plan in our rules and our you know something like that that they would clarify other.

H

Than that yeah it might be more trouble than it's worth. Yes, yeah yeah. We have to be careful.

A

All right, yes, so last month I gave you a draft application of the certified.

C

Local government application for portsmouth that needs to go through the city council.

C

Before it can go into the state, um obviously, this helps promote historic preservation in.

C

The city, especially outside the district, and it makes us eligible for some dedicated funding for.

C

Clg communities that we can't currently get to it'll help us with public buildings.

C

Cyborg cottages middle school, anything that's historically significant, it'll.

C

Help us with the cemeteries, which desperately need funding, that we have caring custody of.

C

I'm sure there's other resources we can do survey work, we can do. We can do preservation.

C

Planning grants through this program, so it opens up opportunities for us to do more. I don't see any.

C

Sticks to go with those carrots, the sticks are all the setup of having a heritage commission or an.

C

Hdc and we've got it all, so this was pretty easy to put together just grabbing all our information.

C

Yeah I'll say as a professional, having done a lot of work, that's through the clg program and.

G

Grants and things like that, the only restriction really is just having oversight to make sure that.

G

You're doing what's in the grant and making sure that that product and what you're trying to do is.

G

Appropriate and helpful, but they the state, gets money every year from the national park service.

G

To dedicate to preservation, and sometimes the state is asking the towns that have this clg.

G

um There are a certified local government, hey, you got any projects you want, because we've got money.

G

And we need to give it out and so happy to say yes and I'd say the only the only potential stick to.

C

That is that there is a there's, a requirement, at least a written requirement that you guys be.

C

Qualified to be on a commission, we've already got qualifications for that, but that the city.

C

Actively train and staff, the historic district commission and training is something we could.

C

All use the training requires some funding, so the city council might have to raise and.

C

Appropriate a little bit of money each year, road trip, so you folks can go on a you know.

C

A workshop right, so that's a good thing. I'd say any opportunity for more funding is appreciated.

C

Yeah outside funding, so if we could get a vote of support from the commission, that's going to help.

C

The the council, I imagine, realize the importance of emotion and move to support the application.

C

To the clg, the application.ng and second 100 and some pages all right, all those in favor.

B

I got help from others too yeah, but I have to understand. I haven't read.

B

It, oh honestly, yeah honestly nick thank you for taking the.

C

um You've been asking for years yeah, but you did it. Thank you. Yeah, okay, adjourman.

B