City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 9 Feb 2022

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2.9.2022 Historic District Commission

A

We're going to call to order the historic district commission meeting for february 9th.

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The first order of business tonight is to again nominate an interim chair to administer and run.

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The meeting given chairman wyckoff is on the zoom call, but in florida and the vice chair I believe.

A

um Reagan, rudig is at home tonight. So do we have a nomination for elected nominated margot for.

B

Interim chair, second, okay, all in favor, oh hi,.

A

Reagan, I assume, is good too hi. Okay, so I don't know I'll get through the gavel. If I can find it.

A

Yeah go ahead; okay! Great! Thank you very much I'll just start with an introduction of the members.

C

Of the commission, starting with our two remote members, if they could introduce themselves and.

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Say whether they're alone or have company in their homes,.

C

John go ahead: john, oh okay! I'm john wyckoff, I'm uh down in st.

D

Petersburg florida, my wife, is in this apartment, but um we are attempting to be separate. Thank you.

E

This is reagan rudig. I am um unfortunately at home um in my home office alone in this room.

C

And to my left, we have karen bouffard good evening david adams, good evening, rich blaylock from.

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Our city council good evening, nick cracknell, our principal planner good evening, martin ryan evening,.

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Dan brown good evening and hindsock schubert good evening and I'm margo doering okay, I will read our.

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Legal language, the board's actions in these matters has been deemed to be quasi-judicial.

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In nature, if any person believes any member of the board has a conflict of interest, that issue.

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Should be raised at this point or will it be deemed waived, anyone wish to raise any issues.

C

Thank you very good um with regard to the matters in front of us, or is there anybody on the.

C

Commission that needs to recuse themselves.

C

Nope, okay, very good, we'll start, then, with the administrative approvals nick. If you could.

C

Lead us through. Thank you. There are four administrative approvals for.

A

Tonight's meeting three of them are on market street they're very similar unit, 7 6l and 12l.

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The first three on the administrative approval agenda and I basically would probably I think, I'm.

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Going to group them they're all the same applicant other than the unit owner the the contractor.

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That's replacing windows and doors in those units has prepared all three applications. Unit 7 is to.

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Replace three patio doors: these are anderson doors unit. 6L is five replacement windows. I think double.

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Hung's in the bathroom in the kitchen, these are the anderson fabrics windows, the fiberglass, clad.

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And they have casement windows in the proposed for the bedroom, probably for egress reasons.

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And then unit 12 l is five windows and a door similar to the other two with.

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Casement windows in the bedroom and all the other windows are double hung. The only thing.

A

That jumped out at me- and there could be more, is that we need a stipulation for half screens.

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For the windows, but did anybody see any there's a lot of paper work in there from the vendor? I.

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Apologize for that the applicant submitted it. It gets printed out and forwarded to you guys.

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Any questions or comments on that there are obviously the windows they're, replacing.

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Are fairly new replacement, they're, it's a new building, new ish.

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On noble's island, any any questions or comments, any issues, no, no. Okay, all right.

A

Thanks so let's remember the half screen for those and then the last one is 75 gate street.

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And this is very straightforward, I think, but I I brought it here because I I wanted.

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To make sure the replacement door was appropriate for the structure.

A

The door that's in there appeared to my eyes not to be as well as the owner.

A

And the contractor, it's a fiberglass door with some odd glazing pattern from the 80s.

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Or 90s, and they would like to replace it with sort of that craftsman door, which I can pull up.

A

Here it's wood, it seems appropriate, but again this is the existing door on 75 gates. It's.

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Side door fiberglass: this is the replacement door, which is presumably dug fur. I would guess so. Nick.

F

Yes, sir, that's not the front door right. No, it's the secondary! Exactly! I said I'd go by the lot and.

F

Didn't recognize it side, door, yep yep, so is that an appropriate door for that house? Okay, I thought.

A

So but gate street okay. So that's all four of them uh with a stipulation on. I guess number two and.

A

Three for a half screen, because the patio doors are number one well motion to approve, as presented.

G

With the stipulation of a half screen for the for those windows, the double hung windows cited.

C

Second, thank you. Any further discussion and I'll take a roll call vote, starting with john.

C

uh Yes, reagan, yes, david, yes, rich, yes, martin approved dan. Yes, thank you.

C

All right, we will move on to public hearings, old business petition.

C

Of the national society of colonial dames, owner for property located at zero market street, the.

C

Ore house, wherein permission is requested to allow the replacement of rooftop mechanical equipment.

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And renovations to an existing structure as per plants on file in the planning department.

C

Said property is shown on assessor map 118 as lot 5 and lies within the character district 4.

C

Downtown overlay and civic and historic districts who is here to present tonight.

A

Is carla here or ray is? Is somebody going to present this okay.

A

And for the audience just note, the material that came in for this is available on the.

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Website but never made it into the packet in time to go out friday. So what's on the screen.

A

Does not include your fencing amendment, but every every board. Member has that in.

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Front of them- and I believe it's on the web- page: okay, okay, okay, so this is last week's.

H

This is last week's up on this okay, but you have this packet. Sorry, everybody has that.

A

You're right did you see that, yes, I'm speaking too soon, perhaps yeah? Is there a defense material.

A

There's a packet, I'm not sure what time this came in on friday, but.

A

There's a supplemental february second package that deals with the screen and it's essentially.

A

Not to speak for you, but it's a replacement in kind of the existing fence. I believe with.

A

Mahogany, instead of maybe pt or whatever, was originally used and as discussed, it's wrapped.

A

You know 40 percent of the way or 33 percent of the way back.

A

Along the side, where there's currently no fence, as discussed at the last, does anybody is this.

A

Unfamiliar to all of you yeah, we we have it on our tablet. So it's familiar yeah but let's, let's start.

C

With an introduction yeah with all due respect, yeah sorry running in here, uh david carkins, back.

H

Channel consulting here on behalf of the ore house and the applicant, thank you. um So we were here.

H

Last week, but if you don't mind, we've made some revisions, let's just start at the beginning, so we.

H

Can go through and make sure we're all clear as to what is proposed. So on section 2.0 at the heart of.

H

This application is really we've proposed, swapping out removing two of the roof mounted hoods and.

H

Replacing it with two new ones from there we have discovered a few things if you're looking at 2.0.

H

That graphic right there, sorry I'm gonna, go see. If I can find it. You keep talking. Okay, 2.0 in your.

H

Packet uh you'll see some red x's drawn through, so the two hoods are a and b, which are noted. The.

H

Original tent was to remove those installed two new ones. Since then, we've found some additional.

H

Vents that are no longer in service, so the intent is to now remove those it's actually a total of.

H

Eight penetrations in all, and that's really depicted nicely on 3.0. You have two old gas.

H

Vents one's a candy cane- these are four inch lines. The two hoods as we originally set out.

H

Another small exhaust and then two older vents that have been capped off, which are closer to.

H

The building side, and then we have the side scoop on the side of the building next to the stair. So.

H

Eight in total will be removed and then two new ones will be going back in to replace a and b.

H

Now uh last week we had discussed the height and the size massing of the two new ones in relation.

H

To the ones that are going in and on 2.0 below the graphic, you will see the existing height of a.

H

Which is the exhaust is 42 inches high.

H

44 inches wide, that's the mushroom one right there on 3.0, the one closer to the water.

H

42 inches high 44 inches wide. That has a 10 inch curb now that one correlates with.

H

On 4.0 uh ef1, which is 45.13 inches tall, including the curb, so you know we're at a delta of just.

H

Over three inches and in width it's a little bit, it's actually skinnier than the one. That's there.

H

B, the fresh air intake is 33 inches high 33 inches wide. We are proposing moving to.

H

Gv1, which is 23, inches wide and has a 12 inch curve, so we're we're 35.. So I.

H

Guess we're negotiable. I guess, in my uh humble opinion, as far as size of the new mechanicals.

H

To clarify something that came up last week.

H

We're removing the membrane roof for a few reasons. One is we're now eliminating extra penetrations.

H

Through it, it's starting to look like swiss cheese here by the time we move things so a new.

H

Membrane roof is in order in doing that, we're adding structure we're not altering.

H

The elevation up or down of the roof we're simply sistering joists ceiling joists that are there.

H

We're heading off the new penetrations to allow for the new roof rooftop mechanical and we're.

H

Blocking in the old ones, so the structure is simply there to fill in the roof system. Surpr.

H

Provide some additional support for the new air makeup unit, which is mounted inside the building.

H

Moving on to graphic 3.0, which you have up.

H

Now, as of the last meeting, we took your comments and the applicant took your.

H

Comments and they have decided to replace the fence in kind, and what I mean by that is the.

H

Height of the fence will not change the space in between the pickets, the size of the pickets.

H

The top rail bottom rail will not change. The only thing is the species in which it's built. It will.

H

No longer be pressure treated, it will be mahogany and it will be left natural, no painting, no coating.

H

In a mistake on our behalf that was brought to our attention is on 4.1. We show the basically.

H

A very simplistic drawing of how the fence will look and you'll see the roof membrane.

H

Noted, yes, that is actually coming up where nick is is notifying. That is just a mistake on our behalf.

H

But it does not change the only thing that changes in elevation. There is actually the granite curve.

H

Goes from the tree house, toys goes from about flush with the sidewalk down to I.

H

Don't have my notes, I believe it's 12 inches 14 inches somewhere in there.

H

um Also, just to be clear, just below the fence you'll see a three-course line of what looks like.

H

um Slats, it's not really a uh v match or anything like that. It's it's basically pressure treated.

H

One by stock, that is stacked that will also be replaced with mahogany just so.

H

That that look continues up. Elevations will not change simply a material replacement. There.

H

Now the other improvement that we are proposing, uh in addition to replacing the front fence in kind.

H

Is turning the fence down the uh sidewalk or sorry down the stair? Now this is it's 18 feet is.

H

What we're proposing it's a very deliberate reason that it's 18 feet from all angles on market well,.

H

From most angles, vantage points on market street, as you walk through 18 feet, sufficiently shades.

H

The new mechanicals that we're proposing but does not impact any views of the water that.

H

Are not otherwise impacted currently by the building or the house behind the building and.

H

Let me reference the building that is, I don't know the street, but it's or the number it's the.

H

Building that the tree house is in the ore house, restaurant, not the single story building so on 3.1.

H

We've tried to illustrate from different vantage points why the 18 foot mark is important.

H

Starting in the upper left corner, the yellow outline space 18 feet does not go beyond.

H

The treehouse toys building moving across the top to the right again 18 feet just goes beyond.

H

The building, but into the small house that is behind on siri street, and that is continued as.

H

You see in the graphic, lower bottom left and then on the bottom right. So we've tried to accomplish.

H

A few things here, we've tried to really find that marriage of screening, the mechanicals as.

H

We've heard the board wants and also preserving what the dames uh really want to see and what's.

H

In their mission and and that is to respect the views that are down there, so we hope that you feel.

H

What we're proposing is appropriate and I think, if there's any questions, I'm happy to answer them now.

C

Questions yes, dan, yes, originally last week, you're also.

F

Replacing one of the mechanicals running along the side along the wall.

H

uh Removing sir we'll be removing okay, just removing that correct and uh that'll be replaced.

H

With water struck brick and we'll take a look at the mortar to make sure that's appropriate.

C

Yes, karen the side vent. I know you said that it was going to be removed.

F

And it last week I think, did have an x. It doesn't this week, but that is going right.

H

That is going okay, okay, other questions, john or reagan.

C

Yes, rich, no, I have no problem. Thank you, john application. Rich. I'm I'm fine with that. I.

E

I wish that I we could see a more appropriate fence style go up, but in.

E

The short time span, I know that they're looking for this, um this is this is fine.

F

Thank you rich. um Thank you, um so I understand that side of the building is 37.

F

Feet: 4 inches that new unit would be 10 feet from the series street side going up.

F

10 feet from series street towards market street and then the fence would be 18 feet going from.

F

Market street down correct, so it wouldn't be like if you're looking directly parallel, it would be a.

F

Little bit past, where the fence right correct, yeah, if you are shoulder with the unit on the stairs.

H

uh It it would come out beyond the fence right, but at that point you're not looking at the water.

F

You're looking at the building and to be honest with you rich, I don't know what the elevation is.

H

At that point of the building in relation to the step that you're on but right, uh you know, there's.

H

Some tall people in the city too so yeah um yeah. I just like to say um I think it is important to.

F

Protect the water views and also the view from the water of the moffett lad house. I know that's.

F

A very popular actually have that image on my wall and my home, and if that fence would got too.

F

High then, it would actually block the view of the home from the river, but I think it's important to.

F

Approve you know to prove this and help both your house. I know how construction.

F

Projects can be difficult with a seasonal business and if you experience, delays and.

F

Other things that can really cause problems. So thank you. um Excuse me. Yes, martin, go ahead. Okay,.

G

I know you want to summarize: um I don't find this fence uh configuration appropriate for.

G

The historic district to me this looks like more of a pressure treated deck that you would find.

G

In a typical residential, suburban neighborhood, I would ask that it'd be something you know we can.

G

You come back with a um you know, I'm proposing that maybe you could come back.

G

For an administrative approval, but I would ask for something more traditional.

G

I'm not worried about the views. You know the moffett lad house is on a hill.

G

Across the street, like the only views you're blocking for them are the views of these units.

G

So to me this, this configuration with the slanted top the one by the the two by two.

G

Pickets with the bevel top is totally inappropriate for the this district.

G

um I can live with the 18 foot side, uh screening with an appropriate fence, and I would ask.

G

That, um when you do replace the membrane, roofing you'd want to put a finished coping.

G

uh And not have it the way it looks now with just a slight. uh You know, return bar uh right.

G

Now that looks very unfinished. I would hope that you would put a coping on that.

G

So, for an appropriate finish of that edge yeah to eliminate the steel belting. Is that what.

H

You're referring to and if I may there's one other very important point- that rich sort of.

H

Spoke to what we're proposing on that side is that the fence would in fact plane with the roof.

H

We're not looking to have it go level per se and then step down. It would be in plane with the roof.

H

Again, to preserve the fact that, as that fence goes down towards siri street, if we were to keep that.

H

Level that would start stepping up higher and impacting views so that you know we're proposing.

H

To keep it in play with the roof, and naturally your pickets would be vertical yeah, correct.

C

So um I I think I had some of the same concern that rich raised. That.

C

This unit is moving so much closer to siri street and yes, as you walk down the stairs.

C

Your eye level goes down and you're not going to see it, but my concern is.

C

Nick, if you could pull up 3.1 the top right hand uh image you could zoom in on that. If you're walking past this garden.

C

That fence is not going to hide that unit and I I don't see how a fence that is going toward.

C

This water is going to block a view. It's its profile is going to be about this big.

C

um But we we have been pushing other applicants very hard in the residential area and other areas.

C

To really screen very well these mechanicals and we're talking about much smaller condensers for.

C

Many splits and we're asking questions like: can you see this from the upstairs window? You know is.

C

This is this something that the neighbors in the back can view. This is the public way um walking.

C

Along this beautiful garden and and looking across the garden and seeing a big huge fan because.

C

You're not moving that bringing that fence down any further than 18 feet doesn't make sense to me.

C

Any other comments david. Yes, madam chairman um martin, mentioned uh ed, I'd like to.

B

Actually enter into a bit of a dialogue with martin here that that you'd mention the the.

B

uh I will just say the modern nature of the the proposed replacement fence. um It's certainly it's.

B

To me, it also seems separated quite a bit from our historic past and, and it is in a sense, the.

B

Viewscape of the moffat lad and the colonial dames, which makes you wonder um I wasn't a fan of this.

B

I was really viewing it as as a time to upgrade the fence because it looked.

B

Shabby I and I hadn't really been thinking seriously about what kind of fence there.

B

Certainly, putting a chinese chippendale period fence like this in front of the mansion house.

B

Itself, I think, is inappropriate for disguising a roof and roof vents, but I wonder if the.

B

The solid uh frame and panel fence that they have at the moffat lab on the other side, their side lot.

B

Is that something that you would think would be more appropriate, far more appropriate than.

G

What's here being uh proposed, and do you think if, if we were to suggest that.

B

In us with a certainty to the applicant, do you think that that's the kind of model that you.

B

They should be using for the fence, the wing fence, this 18-foot section of fence. Also, yes,.

B

Sir, thank you very much.

B

If, if I may, I I'm just going to ask nick to make a technical question um is: is the applicant required.

C

If they're replacing something that currently exists, are they required to change.

C

The style, if we ask them to or if they're, replacing in kind, they are allowed to keep this.

A

That that's not easy to answer, because this application is primarily a mechanical replacement.

A

Project, not a replacement in kind. That happens to be what the proposal is for the for the screening.

A

Material, obviously, the fence getting longer and turning is not a replacement in kind. Okay, so.

A

I I'd have a hard time signing off on something, even even replacing. What's there in kind given.

A

The nature of this application- I think you know you're- going to have to decide collectively.

A

What type of screen works, how tall it is, and certainly whoever mentioned it, probably martin.

A

If there isn't agreement tonight on the fence, then you could certainly approve.

A

This application, so they can move forward with the mechanicals, with a condition.

A

That the screening return for administrative approval, with some of the ideas that have been.

A

Floated be considered and that's an option. Otherwise you vote on what's here and it.

A

Could prevent the mechanicals from moving forward if there's a problem.

H

And I'd like to just express one concern that went into the design of this again. The 18-foot.

H

Piece was very deliberate and I do understand your point. The other vantage point that.

H

We didn't do a great job of illustrating would be coming back down, siri street and potentially.

H

Having a solid fence out to the roof edge of the ore house, restaurant sort of visually protruding.

H

Out and so that's why we also thought it would be appropriate to step that back. I mean to.

H

Mask or shade the mechanicals in its entirety.

H

Becomes a slippery slope with where? Where do we stop? Because we can make the argument that it's.

H

Also viewable from siri street so now we're boxing this thing in and now we're creating a.

H

Snow catch and other issues, and it's not that I don't respect uh the intent here.

H

Also, the the matter of the fence again, uh the fence visually- does break up the line. It may not.

H

Break it up, as you would love and would be the as I say, good, better best scenario. It does visually.

H

Break that up, it does achieve what the the intent of the fence is. I guess we're now debating on.

H

To what level does it need to break up the visual impairment? So okay, so um may make the.

C

Following suggestion, absolutely um I don't hear anybody having any issue with you removing eight.

C

Old mechanicals, from the top of this building and replacing it with the units that you have.

C

Suggested so I think that that's probably something we could move forward on and then.

C

With regard to the fencing, have you come back as martin suggested, with an administrative approval.

C

Where you would lay out in more detail with better sketches and so on, the design of the fences.

C

Given your point with regard to the view from siri street, may I suggest that you give us a rendering.

C

That is the 18-foot fence and then bring it just far enough, because I know that new mechanical.

C

Is 10 feet back from siri street, bring bring the fence down just enough, but no more than you know.

C

10 feet from the edge and let's take a look at different views of that. I think that that will.

C

Serve you better and it'll serve the commission better in terms of getting a good result.

C

Is that acceptable? It is, and just in the interest of being absolutely clear, because.

H

The uh the arrangement of the application is is complicated. It is unacceptable or.

H

Yeah, I guess unacceptable as the right term to the board to move forward with the fence design.

H

As proposed, what I'm concerned with is, if we moved forward with the mechanicals, and that was not.

H

uh Acceptable to the applicant that we we would be at a stalling point.

H

So I just want to make sure very clear that the board is not happy with the fence design that cannot move forward tonight. Is that what I'm hearing.

C

I think that's what I'm hearing. Yes, okay! Margo! May I say a word please: yes, go ahead! John.

D

um One thing we have found in the past is that views depend on where you're standing.

D

And so, if one were to march off into the flower garden squishing, the various.

D

Flowers and stands there: they might see lots of things on that roof, including the.

D

Compressors that are on the side of the toy store building. So I'm I'm very happy to.

D

See this 18 feet, which I feel walking up the sidewalk, certainly does a good job, but.

D

If the board feels the majority of the board feels that's not right, then um you know that's how we'll.

D

Vote as as for changing the design of the fence, um I would have to disagree with nick in the.

D

Fact that they are replacing in kind a wooden fence with wood, they can use the same design.

D

They could just set that fence aside all shabby looking and put it back up again.

D

Those are my comments, I'm just hoping that we can get past this um very minor.

D

Proposal, thank you.

C

Any further comments, and somebody from the public is.

H

C

Okay, public comment: please or you are from you'll- represent the applicant as well. I.

C

Represent the colonial dames, okay, and why don't we have you a little bit awkward? I guess: okay.

I

The gentleman represent mr calkins represents the colonial, has the authority of the colonial dams to.

I

Act on our behalf with respect to the application, which is submitted by 55 serious street.

I

Llc, I don't speak for 55 ll city street llc. I speak for the colonial dames, okay, so.

I

Based on what I've heard here tonight, I think it's very important to just clarify a couple of.

I

Things to make sure that we're all on the same page, because from our perspective we've been.

I

Working very hard to accommodate the applicant to help him move ahead with this application.

I

And all this work that he that he's attempting to do to the building.

I

And we feel to a certain extent, that there's been a level of miscommunication.

I

That has created some issues for us, so the letter for january 14th, you've all seen we talked about.

I

It a little bit last week we were here last week to discuss the application. We heard concerns.

I

About the fence, we were given a the proposed uh stuff. You saw uh focusing ourselves on page 4.1.

I

That we received that late friday afternoon, the dames again to do our absolute best to accommodate.

I

55 sarah street llc met on tuesday morning to discuss the fence. We noticed some issues.

I

With the drawing which which had been alluded to brought those brought that to the attention of.

I

Of the uh 55 series streets attorney sent a letter to mr cracknell this morning that.

I

Outlines all that, so this has come together pretty quickly and the dames is an organization.

I

It's not one person who makes these decisions. These decisions have to be made collectively.

I

And that's not always easy. It's not like organizat entities of the city of portsmouth.

I

There is discussion that has to happen and and debate, and so we did our absolute best to do that.

I

uh The terms of what the dames are supporting in terms of the replacement of the fences outlined in.

I

The letter uh of today's date that I rece that I sent in this morning, we didn't even find out until.

I

This morning that that there was going to be a hearing on this issue today, I so that's why things.

I

Have proceeded a bit quickly, we did not understand and the dames have not at this point authorized.

I

The addition of any new fencing- uh I understood from the last meeting that that was a comment I.

I

Believe by by the chair, I didn't unders. We did not understand that that was going to be a requirement.

I

So that was simply not an issue that dames have considered and if not, I currently do not have the.

I

Legal authorization to offer our agreement to that. It's now now, there's going to be another round of.

I

Of conceptual drawings and whatever and the dames will have to take all that under advisement.

I

So I say this just so: the record is very clear on what exactly the demos have agreed to at.

I

This point they are open to considering anything reasonable. We are doing everything we can to try.

I

To move this process ahead as expeditiously as possible, but I think in this instance has led to.

I

Some miscommunication and misunderstanding, and I think it would be helpful. For example, if there's.

I

Going to be a public hearing in the application, if we could get a little bit of notice of it.

I

You know within a few days, rather than a few hours of when the meeting is going to occur,.

I

That'll be super helpful, so we will go back we'll continue to work with 55 sarah street to try to.

I

Come to some kind of reasonable resolution of this thing, but uh it is somewhat distressing to hear.

I

Decisions being made about what what the dame's view view shed, is or isn't or what they do or.

I

Do not think of it, so we would appreciate some better communication on these issues.

I

And I just feel it's important for everyone to hear that. So thank you for your time.

C

Anyone else from the public wish to address this application.

C

Okay, well I'll close the public hearing. Are there any further comments or questions from the board.

C

Martin, I think we're offering you an out a way to get through this. um I think we have some hang-ups.

G

We don't have a full consensus here. I'm hearing different uh comments. uh I can't support it.

G

Because this fence- and it isn't a replacement in kind because you're intensifying the rooftop units.

G

We have larger units. um So to me, that's not. We need to have those units properly.

G

And so just to replace the the fence. The way it is is not a proper screening. It's not appropriate for.

G

The historic district and therefore I can't support it. I could support the 18 feet down.

G

Down the slope of the roof, others can't, but I'm just telling you, I think, we're trying to.

G

Give you an out by saying you can do the roof. You can do the units we'd like you to come back.

G

With another proposal for the screen, if, if this thing was rushed, I think it.

G

Was rushed to accommodate the applicant, so you know I, you know, I think we have an out.

G

It's up to you to take it or not,.

C

Yes, rich. Thank you chair. um I know you were here last week and we're here again this week.

F

um I just from my memory last week our concern was the side and screening it from the side.

F

uh With the fence, we didn't bring up any issues last week about the existing fence and how we.

F

Wanted them to change that? I don't know with all due respect how fair it is for us to not tell them.

F

That last week, and then now tell them that again this week, when this is already their second time.

F

Presenting to us um from my point of view, it makes it look like it makes us look less credible.

F

But I just want to urge that I I just want to be fair to the client and I don't want to keep making.

F

Them you know create another hoop every time they come to see us, especially when it's a business.

F

That uh you know that's important to downtown, but we'll see that okay.

C

I guess at this point I would want to know what the applicant would like to do.

C

If you would like to have us, make a ruling or if you'd like to have us, allow you to continue this.

C

And make a full a more formal presentation or a full complete presentation at our next meeting.

I

If we can just have a moment sure.

C

Yeah the design wasn't designed the design was disgusting.

C

You already have the minutes. Do you have the minutes on there, not that I know.

A

It's not if it's not in the package, I wouldn't have it. Let's discuss.

A

Defense design was discussed last week, yeah. It was right, it was huge.

A

A

You might want to say something so they heard what you said: yeah right.

A

It might have been unclear. Did I say that now? No, I don't I mean.

D

I don't remember, can I make a motion? uh No hang on john john we'll get we're giving.

C

The applicant a moment to discuss with uh with the parties yeah I can.

F

Express that we didn't like the way it was.

A

I think somebody said that we is a different term. It was said, I think.

B

I don't know personally, I felt like this defense that was there, with shabby shouldn't, be put back.

B

In place, I don't know that I said that out loud, I believe you did yeah. I was just kidding this.

A

Guy did over here they had the perception that we did sure and you know what you're a counselor, no.

B

F

And then be like sure, sure.

B

With the thing that we threw them so that they could have an opportunity to.

B

React to some of our confidence.

B

I don't think we're the best you push for the extrovert. What are we doing again.

C

Do we have a decision consideration.

F

You've never done this before this is crazy. It is everybody's face.

B

I got I get tonight.

J

They're, mostly just.

F

C

Okay, I'm going to ask if you'd like to have time.

C

We can move on with the next presentation and you can tell us what you would like to do later.

F

But we can't hold this up any further conditioners. None of them look like this.

F

Rushed I agree.

I

If you make a motion and no one listens, there, you go okay. uh Thank you. uh We would like to.

H

Take the offer, as you have suggested, we'd like to move forward with the mechanical replacement and.

H

The membrane roof and we will take the fence off and um further design that and work with the dames.

H

And come back for just the fence piece, excellent! Okay! So so it sounds so it sounds as if we'll be.

C

Approving the replacement of the mechanicals, with the stipulation that an administrative approval.

C

Will be put brought forward for a design for the fence that it's appropriate for the historic.

C

District and with full specifications, heights dimensions, viewpoints and so on and just.

H

It would be the applicant's desire that it's not an administrative approval, that it would.

H

Come back for a hearing you'd like to have a hearing hearing? Yes, okay, okay, you got it.

C

I will need a motion, I'm gonna cheat and say so moved. I would. I would like to add, make sure that.

G

The coping is involved in the edge of the roof as well stipulation. What was the stipulation that the.

C

Roof the proper coping along the side of the roof membrane. Because, if they're going to proceed with.

C

The roof that would be an important part, yeah okay. So this is a motion for the approval of the.

C

Replace removal of the mechanical units, the work on the membrane roof, the coping along the side.

C

And the stipulation that another hearing come forward with the design of the fence.

C

In an appropriate historic style.

C

And the only concern I have is: is it possible that one would happen and the other does not.

A

uh Well, it's a stipulation of the of the first one, so it really hasn't happened. Okay, excuse me. Yes,.

D

John, yes, um can you hear me? Yes? Yes, yes, I'm wondering if nick has explained to.

D

The applicant that a full hearing uh means a full application and the full mailing of 10 11.

D

Letters, etc, etc, whereas the aaa is is, is essentially much easier for them.

A

uh I imagine they're aware of that correct. Are they either nodding their head? John? We're good.

C

Okay, okay, karen: is there a uh stipulation for the the uh timing for when they would.

E

Request the hearing or whatever so that we don't see them in a year.

C

Will you be ready by next month.

H

Well, I don't know that I could speak to that, but it certainly will come to come to the mic. Please.

A

And next next month means you need it in by friday, so you're not going to be ready.

H

uh Certainly, within the next two to three months, we we will be back here, but uh why don't you say.

A

90 days 90 days, we're going to really take our time on this with the client and then come back.

H

To you, so thank you for splitting this up for us, okay, rich um yeah. Thank you. I just want to.

F

Say I believe I misspoke earlier when we didn't bring up our concerns of the fence last week.

F

I just I apologize, but I'm also not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, um but it is a concern.

F

Of mine that we are always upfront with any client with any resident any business.

F

um And that we work with you to keep the historic district commission, keep the historic fabric of.

F

This town, but I just wanted to apologize. Thank you appreciate that. Okay, so do we have a clear motion.

C

I'll make the motion. Thank you, john. Yes, that um we have the emotion with the.

D

As you spoke of the roof and and the mechanicals being changed with the curbing.

D

Around the uh roof also being altered and the fencing being put aside for another year.

D

And I would just also like to say that I agree with mr blaylock.

C

uh So this is a full application, so we will need a roll call vote, but before that um did.

C

I get a second did. I get a second second, second, okay, great john. Could we have findings of fact.

D

um It certainly works into our district. It goes along with our guidelines and it's uh conducive to.

D

The other surrounding buildings, um it's a modern change, and it's really not in our findings of.

D

Fact all right, we'll roll call vote, then dan, if I could start with you. Yes, martin approved rich. Yes,.

C

David hi, john, yes reagan. Yes, thank you for getting through all that. Okay, we are ready. We will look.

C

Forward to seeing you in the next couple of months, thank you very much. Next item on the agenda is.

C

A work session we will be moving down to the tables. This work session is requested by the.

C

City of portsmouth, owner for property, located at marcy street prescott park, where information.

C

Is requested to allow exterior construction to an existing structure elevate, remove additions.

C

And relocate the shaw warehouse on site as per plans on file in the planning department, said.

C

Property is shown on assessor map 104 as lot 5 and lies within the municipal and historic districts.

K

So folks, okay, sure you get close to the mic or pull it towards you.

K

I am well the whole team is presenting, but I'm just I'm making introductions and uh uh may I.

C

Suggest, when you're done with your personal introductions that you give a brief overview.

C

Of some of the risk findings that were presented to smoothly sorry, somebody risk findings uh about.

C

Half of the commission was not here for that original presentation, so some understanding as.

C

To why the building is being moved, oh yeah, that's part of the presentation, which is great great yeah,.

K

Now it's it's, it's part of the presentation, but what we have found when we present this project.

K

Is it is so multi-headed it's very easy to get taken off into a tangent? It's part of the.

K

Presentation that we have done the research and we'll show you what the outcome was, but.

K

Hopefully, the discussion doesn't come about specifically about the resiliency and the water.

K

Levels and so forth, the fact is, we've done the research and it's in here in an abridged version.

K

Very good all right introductions. Thank you. So my name is joe almeida. I am the.

K

Facilities manager for the city of portsmouth, I'm here tonight with the design team and also there.

K

Are members of the mayor's blue ribbon committee, who are in the audience uh as well, who have been.

K

Working very hard with us on this um tonight from weston and sampson. Sherry ruin is to my left.

K

uh Ted talukian from tt, architects and carlos guzman also from tnt um again tonight. The purpose.

K

Of tonight is we're here just to show you where, where um what our progress has been, we are just.

K

Wrapping up a lot of decisions over the past couple years and we were just wrestling with.

K

The exact date of when we've seen this group last it's been over a year. It's been a long time, so we.

K

Just want to present to you where we are. There are still a lot of decisions to be made moving forward.

K

On on architecture and so forth, but this is phase one of the master plan that we're implementing.

K

um You're going to see it in great detail here, but it involves some alterations to the shaw building.

K

uh That exists now you're all very familiar with that, I'm sure um so with that. Let me not.

K

Waste any more time, and just let let cherie take over um the slides that she has on her screen, are.

K

Identical to what you see here, yeah, I think nick's driving this bus. So that's great! Thank you.

L

So you can go right to the next slide um and this is just a quick snapshot of really where we.

L

Have been, we as as many know, launched the master plan back in 2016 and had a.

L

Very involved community engagement process, as well as blue, ribbon committee engagement.

L

There was we adopted the master plan and then uh 2018 and 2019. We actually learned a lot.

L

About resilience which we'll get into in just a second um and then that sort of elect we needed.

L

To reframe some of the improvements based on the resilience information and we did some enabling.

L

Engineering to really facilitate making sure that the master plan was going to be able to.

L

Be implemented and then it was going to serve all of the goals that we had aspired to so next slide.

L

This is the um this is the master plan as it stands as it was adopted.

L

Back in 2020 and the next slide actually has the resiliency features that we were just.

L

Talking about so really key here, there's two parts to the water equation: one is sea level rise and.

L

The other is storm water, which is the rain that falls on the land and is running right to prescott.

L

Park as the lowest point in this watershed, so it's really getting it from both sides so to speak.

L

So it's capturing storm water and allowing and facilitating it to either flow into the river.

L

Or to hold it temporarily in the park and then let it flow out, once tides go down and it's preventing.

L

Sea level rise and sea water from entering the park, not only above the seawall, but also through.

L

Subsurface infrastructure, which is outfalls that otherwise are just open pipes, and so a lot of this.

L

Information is actually what informed phase one in the original master plan we had identified.

L

A different area of the park for phase one, but when this resiliency information came to light.

L

It became clear that this core of the park was most important. That information also led us to.

L

Understand that the shah, in fact, was at the lowest point in the park and was most vulnerable and as.

L

A an architectural asset and an important part of the community's history, we thought that.

L

Raising it up was absolutely the right way to go once you've raised the building, it did become.

L

The question became: is this actually the exact right spot for this? If we're raising it moving.

L

It is much less of a hurdle and so um through again a very in-depth study. We decided that moving.

L

The shaw towards marcy to slightly higher ground, actually served many purposes from a resiliency.

L

Perspective from a park first perspective and also from an engaging the community perspective.

L

And that allowed us to really think about this band that is created by the shah and the chief.

L

Which is very wharf-like in its configuration and allowed us to then think about how we make best.

L

Use of the shaw, which does include an addition and then locating the stage in a really ideal position,.

L

That allows us to make best and highest use of the site, so those were all parts and pieces of.

L

This and I can answer more detailed questions if you're interested in it, but essentially it was all.

L

Data driven from storm and sea level, and the next slide is really as we're implementing phase one. We.

L

Had to do a little bit more work on the site that was geotechnical, boring, storm, water infiltration.

L

And schematic design- and here we are um today sort of in the midst middle of this diagram.

L

As we're going through um bid documentation and we're here just to update you on the.

L

Project have an open discussion about where things are headed and get some feedback.

L

Anything I'm missing. No, that's all very good! Okay, and with that, oh one, more thing. Sorry, the.

L

Next slide is just an overview of the site plan of phase one, so the black dashed line um yep.

L

That one is the limit of work and you can see that there's improvements to water street that include.

L

Some additional parking, there's regrading of the lawn and there's configuration of pathways.

L

But the sha really is sort of the heart of this. From a resiliency perspective, the only thing I.

C

Would I'm sorry I'm just I'm just going to stop for a second and just make you aware that what.

C

We're seeing on our ipads and what we're seeing here are two totally different things. I mean.

K

There might be some overlapping submitted. There's we updated the slot yeah, we updated the slides.

K

The symbol so just anybody's confused. That's why it's not your head! It's okay! Thank you. I apologize.

L

So I should be facing this way. Apparently: okay, charming. I was just gonna. Add that the clarity.

K

That when we talk about, I realize in some previous conversations with people when we talk about.

K

Lifting the shaw that we need to also explain that the grade is is coming up with it as well, so we're.

K

We're not looking to impact the architectural show we're going to all of a sudden, see three more.

K

Three fetal foundation: the surrounding grades are significantly going to rise with it as a matter.

K

Of fact, the what we call liberty park, which is a crosswater street where the flagpole is, and uh you.

K

Know the form of the gardens there the what they call the um trial gardens. That height is basically.

K

The height that will be carried across water street and shaw will be sitting on that. That.

K

New grade to this, basically the same height that shafe is at right now, this the floor level.

K

Will be the first floor levels would be similar, yes and then there's a transition from water to.

L

Marsy, which is the the given sort of the benchmark that we're meeting back with, say that again, the so.

L

The rate that grade rate the grade raising that um joe just talked about will transition back down to.

L

Meet water street uh marcy street at its existing elevation, so marcy straight remains intact.

L

And then, once you basically cross the threshold into the park and pass the.

L

Players ring that's when water street will gradually ascend to these higher grades.

F

So, where the steps are and that little fall off by uh it's getting low will be going correct, you.

L

Got it correct exactly correct, uh and with that I will pass it over to ted. Oh you're, going to see it.

L

Up on the screen- and I think nick you're going to be driving, that's right. Okay, uh actually! Thank you.

M

I think sherry and joe certainly gave a good high level so overview and just to reiterate.

M

I'm particularly looking forward to this as a meeting where we can receive good feedback.

M

Because it is a you know, meeting essentially to get to have good discussion, uh one of the.

M

Things that came up is really, I think joe said it's a very multi-headed project and there's.

M

Maybe a number of goals to put on the table, so we thought we'd start with that and I think sherry.

M

Really nailed it in the beginning by saying you know at first it's a park first approach.

M

And with the vision to the master plan- and I think every all the decisions are revolving around- that.

M

But particularly as it relates to the shaw's building goals, preserving it rehabilitating it.

M

And restoring the charlo building is going to be essential. That's really not a part of this.

M

Presentation now, in terms of the details that we'd like to get into in terms of you know the.

M

Materials and how those restoration components come together, particularly the preservation.

M

But the idea that the shaw building will be preserved in latter phases is something that is a.

M

Particular part of the project, as sherry pointed out with resiliency and the sea level rise in.

M

Raising the park grade inherently connected to that is relocating, protecting the shaw building.

M

Through climate resiliency interventions and I look at preservation and resilience hand in.

M

Hand in order to really preserve and think about the future of the shaw we have to think about.

M

How we can get it above? Those sea level rise projections, so that we can preserve it against.

M

Any potential interventions that could come in the future through sea level rise. So that's the.

M

Second part of what we're looking at, but as well with that is um aside from the material aspects.

M

Of the shaw and relocating it and protecting it, it's certainly, I think, about how we're going to.

M

Use it and identifying the programming to me not just the city requirements, but also.

M

Ones that we can support the performing arts needs and with that we spent a good bit of time with.

M

City staff and some of the other users in terms of how to study a new construction edition, which.

M

Could help minimize or eliminate the on-site trailers that exist during the prescott park.

M

Arts festival and a part of this all together is certainly how we look at. This is how we see it.

M

Over time and how we prioritize a phased approach to the project and that's something we'd like to.

M

Sort of get some feedback as well, so with that I thought I'd frame those high levels. Thank you. Nick.

M

Secondly, I we we love the drawing process and the research that we do in our office.

M

These are a lot of things that are familiar to you, but they help us understand the chronology.

M

On the site and what has occurred and what I'm going to do is show you a few slides where we've.

M

Mapped through sanborn maps and drawings, just the evolution of prescott park over time. So this is.

M

Of course, what it is today and highlighted in red is really some of the last vestiges.

M

On the park, which is the wharf, this idea that there's a strong linear line, the history of.

M

That whole area is something we feel this could be a real strength of the the project. Next, please.

M

And we went back to 1920s, and this is a drawing that we created that overlays.

M

In magenta, which is some of the sanborn maps of a lot of these wharf buildings that existed on.

M

The site you see the dashed lines of where um the edge of the the piers were at once a point in time.

M

And then you see the palm says sort of drawing where you see the layers of the green space from.

M

The park and I think what it speaks to is this dynamic. You know chapters that have been on the.

M

Site and for us you know even to know that the shape has moved at some point in the 20s.

M

Or thereabout just talks to the chapters and the history and something more embraced. Next, please.

M

And there's some great photos that we pulled through your archives, which show you know.

M

That condition next and how the shape has been moved, which is quite fascinating. I know probably.

M

All very integrated into it next and as we move towards the 60s, you see the evolution of the park.

M

And you see how to the left in magenta, some of the industrialization that occurred on the site next.

M

And up through the 80s, you see again to the opposite side of the um the shaw and how they.

M

Were still you know, maintaining this this this zone through the middle, uh where there was still.

M

The one last vestige of the industrial space next and that's you see in the photo- and I think.

M

What this does and you can see the the actual stage existing in the lawn there next is sort.

M

Of some, it really helps answer for us. You know how this occurred. You know where the stage was.

M

And and how that swatch was located, so the the chronology is there.

M

And sort of raised some questions for us about. You know when we were thinking about.

M

Where the stage could be relocated and how this would affect, you know the planning and uh next.

M

And so with that, I think we start with this, drawing which really is a diagram that talks about.

M

Where it is today and some of the questions around that were how can we relocate the stage you know.

M

Move some of the trailers and some of the tents that exist on the site that tend to overwhelm.

M

I think the park itself and uh also look at how we could um improve the life safety and the.

M

Accessibility and the egress of the shaw building itself, while also just maintaining that wharf.

M

Linearity that exists along water street, which really speaks to the history of the site.

M

Next, so we dug into some conversations we met with the staff from ppaf, as well as the city.

M

We measured some of the trailers really began to understand, like how much square footage does.

M

Exist with these trailers and these components, if we're going to remove them and try to get them off.

M

From the site and to allow the open space to exist next- and we realize that there's about.

M

Four thousand square feet that are approximately accounted for with some of the planning. Next, we.

M

Also studied the building, looked at the egress, the accessibility and, if we were to, if we were to move.

M

And relocate and may possibly change some of the uses that you know. A second means of egress may.

M

Be necessary, accessible access through an elevator or lift if the public or employees would continue.

M

To use those buildings were necessary, as well as sprinkler systems electrical. All these things that.

M

Make up buildings would be necessary in a possible addition to the building to help uh really.

M

The shaw um be restored properly and just pause you for one. Second, that's a great place to pause.

K

And just to remind that, the if an addition is considered the sheer amount of space that.

K

All of those modern mechanical systems and conveying systems take up that we're trying to.

K

Not force them into the shaw building, we want to put them into the addition and there's a minimum.

K

Size building that would be required to do that um again, you'd. Think of of a rated rated stairwell.

K

That goes up against the shaw: an elevator shaft, an elevated machine room, an electrical room, fire.

K

Suppression with pump rooms and so forth, restrooms janitor's closets. It very quickly becomes.

K

It starts to drive the size of the addition. Yeah no well put joe. Thank you next, please.

M

um So thinking about the addition and the phased approach and and particularly around.

M

The preservation, along with the resiliency, um picking it up the shaw and relocating it.

M

In a way that could create opportunities for an addition that could satisfy some of those needs.

M

Was of interest and this diagram begins to explain- you know that movement next, and this is a I think,.

M

A photograph from the shape that really shows you what I think sherry was speaking to, which is that.

M

Diagonal line. Excuse me that horizontal red line is the approximate grade that would be created.

M

That would create the elevation that potentially when we pick up and relocate the shaw that would.

M

Get it out of that potential flood zone, but also make strong connections to the park to liberty.

M

Park, of course, into the open space. I don't know if you want to add anything yeah. I will just because.

L

When we first looked at this back in 2016, a thing that kept coming up in public comment was how.

L

Bifurcated the park felt like it was two separate parks with this road down the middle.

L

And that the sheath ended up being this sort of island in and of itself, and it was a big goal.

L

To reconnect- and so this move actually allows us to do that, both vertically and horizontally in a.

L

Way that really ties everything back together, yeah and you know just to speak to some of the.

M

Other you know: preservation techniques. We will be when looking at you know, raising.

M

The building uh we we have been studying, you know, secretary interior standards, on flood adaptation.

M

And ideas around dry flood proofing, the basement, you know moving the utilities out of the flood.

M

Plain um protecting those utilities, uh certainly elevating the building and elevating the interior.

M

Structure all going to be a part of the future studies that would be evaluated next.

M

Oh, no, it's okay! This is a drawing it kind of speaks to a lot of actual people who.

M

Are involved in what we've been doing in this in these last few months, um we.

M

Have our structural engineer involved we've been doing a lot of forensic analysis. We've.

M

Been in the basement, actually carlos has been a lot in the crawl space.

M

And also you know, measuring how the building has been built documenting it realizing you.

M

Know that the structure needs some, uh you know a little tlc, uh some of the structure's out of plum.

M

And certainly, there's been some sagging in some other areas and you know that's going to be a part.

M

Of that restoration project- and you know what you know- we're not looking right now at those.

M

Restoration or excuse me, I should say, preservation techniques around the siding and the corner boards.

M

And the windows and the roof and all those things but something we come to you in future phases, but.

M

But these are all aspects that need to be considered, and this is just a quick snapshot.

M

Of you know some of that preliminary study next, so here we are uh here, and I think this is.

M

You know at a point where it shows you the choices that we've been looking at.

M

So you know, after we consider picking up- and you know, relocating the shaw getting it out of.

M

The flood plain and then the opportunity that exists when we can move the stage.

M

And move the supporting arts festival components. We realize that it still takes up a lot of space.

M

In the park, uh when we have the building, you know standing alone and that there are.

M

A lot of what-if scenarios that were raised around those square footage analysis and the.

M

Programming analysis how the building was used, and you know we began to look at the the addition next.

M

As an opportunity that, could um you know clean up the site to some extent.

M

With some of these, you know pieces that exist during the temporary periods of the festival.

M

But also, as joe pointed out, provide accessibility egress, and this is very much a diagram. It doesn't.

M

Describe at all, you know the design, it doesn't really necessarily speak to the entirely about.

M

The scale that it could be at, but it just begins to show you the next phase in terms of how we can.

M

Encapsulate a lot of these, you know, programming, components and put them. You know within the.

M

Building yeah- and it's worth it's worth uh pausing, also to understand that the reason why.

K

We are coming forth and showing you exactly where we want to put the shaw now, the going through.

K

The exercise of determining what a potential full addition would be places the shaw in the in the.

K

Prime location, that's not to say that the addition has to be that full addition. But we don't want to.

K

Move the shaw and then wish we had moved it 10 more feet. We want to fully inform ourselves if you.

K

Want all trailers eliminated, and you want to find so that that is why we're asking for this location.

K

And hopefully, you're you're convinced that we've we've informed that location, the research that.

K

We've done thank you, and also just thinking about those those earlier drawings that we showed you.

M

From the 20s and the layering, and this idea that you know wharf could still exist with the way the.

M

Buildings are are designed in a way. That's you know, creates that linear line along water street.

M

You know makes a linear connection to the shape you know and then thinks about. You know that that.

M

Sort of sense of history and that's something that we could you know further study. But I think.

M

There's a real opportunity there. Next, please, and certainly as we look at the next, you know phase.

M

Of of our study and research is understanding and getting feedback from you. You know as well.

M

About you know what is a new building, you know edition do and we we we look to the secretary.

M

Of material standards for treatment, historic properties- and you know how does it retain the.

M

Historic relationship between the buildings and the landscape, you know what is the particular.

M

Architectural style, and how can we preserve, you know the building's character? These are all.

M

Significant questions that you know we would want to look and study around its compatibility and.

M

Its appropriateness, you know how it's connected the the sort of recess or the space between the.

M

Buildings, the roof line, the relative hierarchy- all these are aren't here now, but something that we.

M

Want to look at in the future, and certainly your feedback on this would be uh very significant. Next.

M

And another you know, I think part of this. You know wharf idea and the linearity.

M

Is you know, how can we reinforce that historic line with the location of this the stage itself.

M

You know getting it back in line, you know with the structures along water street. This.

M

Is actually just taking the stage that exists right now and picking it up and.

M

Moving it, it's not actually designed, we think, there's an opportunity here where we can.

M

Begin to think of the stage as a part of the whole, you know stretch of buildings together.

M

And what is that experience like and how does it speak to you know the overall architecture.

M

And sense of place there, but but it begins to show you how those pieces can begin to be stacked and.

M

Layered together much to some extent like those 1920s right, you know four plants. Next, please.

M

And then this is just you know, I think, a diagram that sort of captures.

M

You know some of the pieces that are happening on the back side of the building.

M

Which is you know, significant accessibility, universal access, the pieces that wesson and samson.

M

Is working on with regrading the site is not just I want to say around flood. You know, preservation.

M

But it's a lot around accessibility. How we can create. You know roadway ramping that meets ada.

M

Requirements um adding a sidewalk that creates a safer pedestrian access to the water. Looking.

M

At alternate ways where parking can be nestled, I think very delicately within the landscape to not.

M

Overwhelm the landscape, the park itself, and also you know this experience about you know walking.

M

Across between liberty, park and prescott park in such a way that can make greater connections.

M

And uh next, and and certainly just another level, which is you know how it's being used and just not.

M

To get you into all the details, but you know it's, you know, can we create structures that really are.

M

Are adaptable and can serve multiple functions and really you know for the first time allow.

M

The shaw to be really experienced by the general public and it could be a great space that could.

M

Be used for a variety of different purposes and be a part of you know the community next.

M

And we just put these side by side here to help you know, frame the discussion and you.

M

Know we look forward to your feedback. I don't know if there's anything else. No, that was very.

L

I think too, just hearkening back to the beginning of the whole project is that.

L

This park first approach really was born out of this feeling that, at times,.

L

You know other things were taking precedent over the park itself and that the park was really being.

L

Over leveraged, and so these moves are in a in support of park, first meaning.

L

That things have a place and that the landscape itself can't just be you know.

L

Sort of unfettered access all over the place, it's a much more consolidated um use and.

L

Strategy that, I think really brings the park to be in its prominent in a prominent position.

C

Thank you. Thank you. Any initial comments and questions. Yes, dan. One of your goals was to open.

F

Both sides of the park together and I think that would need an open stage like that- is that planned.

F

Do you know what the future stage is planned to be so at this point it is a moveable stage. That's.

L

What has been endorsed in the master plan for many reasons, and um you know, there's certain components.

L

To a stage that we believe are going to just serve the city better than the one, that's there.

L

Now, which has lived a very long life has been bolstered by many people in the community. Just.

L

In construction from construction perspective, so we actually believe that whether it is temporary.

L

The movable strategy is that there are parts and pieces to this that do need to be improved.

L

Just from a baseline of safety and use- and so that's a conversation, I think that when we get to.

L

We need to design the stage, not just repurpose the one, that's sitting in the middle of the park.

L

That's exactly the type of question that we're going to be, but that I think I think I understood.

M

Your question was really interesting about the transparency yeah that those two diagrams side.

M

By side actually speak a lot to maybe where that could go, uh you know if, where the addition.

M

What the addition opportunity um provides is an opportunity to free up space on the site.

M

That you, you know, ironically, you could say, allows for greater transparency. Right allows for greater.

M

Visibility allows for a better passage between the site and I think, as sherry pointed out, the.

M

Design of the stage is really, you know something that needs to be looked at. You know, particularly.

M

In terms of not just when it is being used, you know when an event is occurring, but we've done.

M

A lot of park structures- and I think one of the things that we find is the multiple opportunities.

M

That exist with these structures, where that, on one hand, being used they're clear what their uses are.

M

But how do they exist in a park when they're not being used? You know they passive seating areas.

N

Sometimes public education spaces- you know all these things would be a very interesting.

M

Next, you know next phase discussion yeah with you moving the shawl up closer to marcy street and if.

F

That stage ever became solid, you're, really building a huge wall between the two parks.

F

Yeah, so that that is a concern yeah, and this is a great moment where the stage could be.

M

Allow that transparency over that visibility, but you know, allow for a certain degree of you know.

M

Semi-Transparency at times, you know where, where the the arts festival could could thrive,.

F

One last question: yes, no, okay, when you talked about leveling off the grade, what's the um flood.

F

Plain and everything on the sheath is that up there over here yeah, so the sheath is actually.

L

Almost four feet higher than the shaw okay, um and so it's you know it's less vulnerable and.

L

I'll say that one of the improvements that we are looking at from a resiliency perspective.

L

Is adding another course of granite block on the seawall not to build it up to be a barrier, but.

L

Just to add a little bit more free board, and some of that will also be looking at the sheaf and how.

L

Protective measures are possible there, but it is actually higher and currently drier than the shock.

L

True, martin yeah, I wanted to pick up on what dan was talking about. You had mentioned that one of.

G

The problems was that the park was bifurcated yeah and I agree I I I I see that too. I see the asphalt.

G

Street the water street being part of that problem, and I too would like to see just the.

G

The shaw pulled closer and and closer to the player's ring so that you do create.

G

Sort of and define that space between the player ring and the shawl and then at that point.

G

I would prefer to see that the the stage come around and address the bridge.

G

This way that some of this utilitarian buildings, the the addition and things that serve the stage.

G

Would be confined to this area and then you'd have more flow between the the two sides of the.

G

Park are we commenting on the massing of the edition at this point, or is that just.

K

No just just not the only the only statement that we have about the massing of the edition is that.

K

That dimension is what would be required in order to house everything in the edition right. If the.

K

Choice was made by the powers that be to house everything in the edition we'd be coming to you.

K

With uh a volume of that size, okay, yeah, but um that we're not really we're not really here to.

K

Discuss the exact size of that right now, it's it's up for discussion if you want to, but.

K

Right and I'd offer this to you future phases. You also underscore that you know that is just a very.

M

Simple diagram: it doesn't speak to the roof line. Then the height um the space between I think needs.

M

To be studied, I think materiality and you know the the solid it's it's a simple diagram, but it's.

K

It's also a simple solution: these are simple buildings. These are simple buildings with.

K

With with very few with few materials- and they they, they express themselves in a very simple.

K

And straightforward way, that's why the diagram is just showing you a you know: an extruded uh gable.

K

Right because that's what exists and I'll offer just on the on the stage when that is designed.

L

There's opportunity there for um ensuring that a redesigned stage has the highest level.

L

Of functionality in the stage itself and is more efficient and also from a sound perspective. There.

L

Are requirements with sound booths and things like that that currently, on the axis it's set.

L

All fall into place, rotating those which we have looked at and actually had looked at previously.

L

Do start to present other complications, not to say it's not possible, but it's um configuring.

G

Noise leaving the site and affecting the rest of the neighborhood. No, no, no just the configuration.

L

Of stage and sound booth and equipment and the configuration that those need to be on in and.

L

Act, the access and the setup. Maybe I think I'd like to say you know the phrase exit stage left.

M

Is that it's where they're coming from and so a lot of pieces that are housed? Let's say in.

M

Those tents are back of house uh components that where people come to the stage they're.

M

Now could be housed inside the building and so the the immediacy of the stage to the.

M

Addition is really a functional relationship, as is it is as much let's say, a design. You know.

M

Issue as well, okay, I just I just think that it's a very poor placement, the stages just.

G

Yeah, I think something more creative could be accomplished um by moving the the the shea further.

G

The the shawl further down and and making a better bigger, building making a bigger.

G

Addition and having all the space you want and still linking both sides of the part.

M

You know one, I I think that's definitely we're saying I think we probably didn't.

M

Reinforce enough is in the stages, current location, it's actually centered on the lawn, so it sort of.

M

Works to the optimal you know, relationship of the lawn to the stage, and that certainly couldn't mean.

M

That, if rotating the stage is still accommodating, if you look at the diagrams, you see this ghostly.

K

It's ghosting of this, this this track of path that goes around what what we were referring.

K

To informally, as this the bowl here, where the stage is now it's in the middle of the bowl, so.

K

That actually is going to be that the grade it's going to be a large grassy bowl, so that.

K

When your seat, when you're sitting in there, it provides the optimum view of the stage.

K

And this this path, that's surrounding the bowl could actually be. You know, could actually at.

K

Some point become part of the performance even you're, going to have people. You know.

K

Navigating around the seating area in a very in a very easy way, so the stage has to address the.

K

Seating area and then beyond that, there's we're still using this their sound booth to consider.

K

This concession stand to consider this. All of those things that that are off the screen here.

K

That are in future phases that when we consider placement of things we we consider those as well.

C

Rich, thank you. I'm just curious. You mentioned the bowl and I know we're raising the grating.

F

Where the shaw building is now so, would it kind of grade up to the bowl and then kind of fall into.

F

The bowl kind of thing- or I don't know the edge- will be flush. You know the the grade is raising.

L

Around the shaw, it will be flush and then it will. There will be a gentle slope towards the center.

L

Of that performance, lawn yeah yeah, and not only does it create sort of optimal.

L

Seating right, and so it's not blankets and then chairs, it's that, but also it's a storm water.

L

Functionality that that's where we wanted to use that, I'm sure you know you guys are experts and.

K

Yeah, that's that's! That's its biggest function, actually yeah yeah. It's.

F

My novice brain would be like well, it's not going to be just a big puddle of city.

O

That's right, thank you, david.

B

Too many things, let's just start um the wharf idea. What was the wharf idea? I missed that part all.

B

Together, I think it came from our just really study of history on the site and I think that.

M

Slide from the 1920s was fascinating. You know with the number of buildings that existed in.

M

That location and the idea, you know much the way a wharf exists with a series of linear buildings.

M

Along a a road or a stretch of land, much the way it is now is what you're.

B

Saying yeah the abundance of it and that you know with some of these moves, you know that.

M

That are that could be occurring. The idea of making sure we maintain the wharf idea that linear.

B

um Yeah, it seems like the marine railway and that idea is gone. If you're gonna build your.

B

Stage right in the middle of it your bowl, uh well, it would be on online right with the axis.

M

Of the building, so it's it's currently in the bowl correct right now, yeah! So I see what you're saying.

L

Yeah, the historical railway yeah um you're, going to raise this some three feet: two and a half to.

L

Three at the shaw, yet you set up to the level of the shh, the sheath, so the grade said the sheath.

B

Was four feet above? That's right! That's right! The um grade will be raised two and a half to.

L

Three feet and then there's actually a 12 inch foundation that on the sheave on the on the um yep.

B

Sheep is the one we're told, was four feet above the shoulder. That's right and the shaw will get.

L

There by this one foot of I see you're going to add another foot on top of that, so the building's.

B

Actually going to go up currently more than that after three okay um you're going to raise the.

B

Parking area up also correct and you're going to maintain in this idea of unifying the park.

B

You're going to maintain a street and parking on it yep, but it's going to, but it's going.

B

To be good parking, it's going to be it's not transparent parking. It's getting come on. It won't.

B

A transparent unification between two objects and put a parking lot in it with cars.

B

And you would think that would be good. No, you have to yeah what we're considering is the fact that.

K

The the performance demand to the performance requires vehicular access.

K

To it, of course, there's fire truck access as well, but the parking spaces. If you see the.

K

If you, if you see the entire master plan again, if you look at it, we're actually eliminating.

K

Parking in other places within the park, so the parking numbers have been reduced significantly.

K

So- and this is the- and these are the ones that remain there's parking there now, as you know,.

K

But we're doing pull in yeah to add a few to keep a few more I'll say this too water street, which.

L

Used to run or currently runs right up to the sheaf is actually getting pulled back. Yeah and the.

M

Parking that is up against the thief is actually being pulled. Closer, yeah and being nestled between.

M

Some of the landscape, and hopefully I'm screened and by right and by rotating it.

L

Instead of having parallel along and rotating, it's actually shortening our need for asphalt.

L

That deep into the park and allowing us to make a much greener pedestrian prioritized connection.

C

John or reagan do you have questions? um I have a few comments.

D

Basically, I'm heading in the same direction as david um about water street and um the parking lot.

D

And wondering why uh the water street needs to be paved at all, wouldn't it be more appropriate.

D

If it was heavily graveled and crushed up oyster shells and all that sort of thing, if it weren't.

D

More of a nautical street and also the additions on the back. um I understand you know because of.

D

Your program, you need to have a large addition, and I agree that.

D

Taking your cues from the shaw and and the sheath is the way to go. As a matter of fact, I can see.

D

If the stage weren't up against water street, if the buildings were along water street and the.

D

Stage were more in front of the new edition that all of a sudden, you kind of created what used to.

D

Be with the fact that you know all of the large docks, the long dock etc, they all had a line of.

D

Buildings on one side of them, for not all of them, but most of them had a line of buildings on one.

D

Side that were used for various you know cordage and sail making and probably supplies and things.

D

Like that, so you would have that kind of look um on the other side so on water street and.

D

So with that, I I would hope that we can all agree that the that the design should be taken.

D

um In that direction you know with the shingles and etc, and you know just a healthy space between.

D

The two buildings, with maybe a connection on the first floor or something if it needs to be but.

D

um A healthy space, I think, that's you know a way to go. That's what I would like to see it.

D

And um you know right now: I can see that most of what you're discussing is all engineering and.

D

So uh I don't have anything else to say. Thank you.

E

Simon, um I just want to say how excited I am by this presentation.

E

You know several years ago there was a committee of us that got together and really studied.

E

Historic buildings and and the threat of sea level rise and um looked at all the various ways that it.

E

Could be addressed, and this is actually doing some of those things which is fantastic to see that our.

E

City is actually implementing um these ideas and these strategies so retaining the building lifting.

E

It up moving it. I have no problem with that. That's a, I think, a wonderful way to preserve it.

E

To move it to higher ground, uh I appreciate just how much you've studied and looked at.

E

At the history and the site plan, obviously it's just a very, very in-depth study that you guys have.

E

Worked on, um I also I, I think it's a great idea to utilize this sort of dead space in between there.

E

As far as I'm concerned, my children love to run around and that sort of vacant uh grass lot during.

E

Summer performances because they get bored, but I think that certainly the plan that we have up here.

E

Now, opening it up and creating this much larger bowl as you're calling, it is a much better use of.

E

The space much better way to unify the park um and and and pull it all together and use.

E

All the wonderful space that's there, so um I'm feeling really positive about the direction that.

E

This is going, I'm not going to nitpick about any of the designs or anything like that. Yet.

E

I'm just curious, I'm very excited to see where you guys will go um from here, so I'm thank you.

C

Okay, any other comments by the commission before we hear from the public.

C

Okay, I'll open this to public comment. Would anybody from the public like to come up and speak to this presentation and we have somebody.

C

Good evening, if you could introduce yourself, please.

P

Elizabeth browder 159 mcdonough street property owner. um I didn't write anything down, so I'm.

P

Winging it because I really couldn't understand what the plan was, um I'm.

P

I appreciate that you want to raise the buildings because I think that's important resiliency and.

P

Environmental issues are huge in my vocabulary. I'm concerned is the stage going to be backed.

P

Up to the quote: unquote edition, so that hasn't been determined yet because the stage has to be.

L

Designed as we're showing it in- and I don't know nick if you can go to the next yeah there um here.

L

It's actually shown in line, so it's um it's right. Next to the addition it's not in front or but it's.

P

Facing the same direction, it does now you're not turning it to face the south end. That's right. Okay,.

P

So that was one of my concerns. um The other concern I have is um martin talked about.

P

Authentic stuff, with buildings, at one of the meetings I was at last week and.

P

I'm thinking of him he's smiling and I'm thinking about that edition and I'm wondering if you could.

P

Leave the stage where it is and create a building around the stage, which would therefore there.

P

By create a sound proofing or a sound reducing mechanism, as opposed to putting it against that.

P

And I'm going to tell you the reason why I've been to prescott park a million times. I lived.

P

In portsmouth 35 years, I'm still here every day and the one thing that I find is that when there's.

P

A play going on, you can still go over to the whale you can still lie in the sun. If you want.

P

To you can still go to the flower gardens and take pictures. You can still go to the.

P

I don't know which ones which she for shaw, but you can go down and see the boats being.

P

Made that used to ferry across the river and try to envision them getting across that river.

P

But once you move the stage closer to that end of the park that ability to visit that end of the.

P

Park and utilize it has now been removed. I like the idea of raising it up and creating one level.

P

As opposed to having to go down the stairs to get to the other part, but I don't like the idea of the.

P

Stage being moved into that end, because that is technically a separate park, because when a play.

P

Is going on, you can't hear yourself talk, so you want to be able to get over there and you want to.

P

Tourists like to come and visit and so do locals. Those buildings are very interesting to see.

P

And the summer is really the best. The only time you can see them, I think they're open till fall.

P

The other thing I would like to see is, I realize we're trying to protect the the building closest.

P

To the wharf, what what are the name of those the boats? Please help me the gondola? No, not the.

P

Gundam the little ones that they used to make. Oh the historic commission. Oh I'm, sorry, the warries.

P

The weries, the lord yeah, the little lorries and stuff they have a um in that building. They have.

P

A guy who makes who used to who used to make them? I don't know, if he's still there, so I would rather.

P

See that lifted up and kept on the water, because it helps you to envision what it was like to.

P

That's the real history of prescott park is that was where the ferry was and the rail was there.

P

And so to move that building back to preserve, it is a good idea, but to raise it up would be.

P

I mean to raise it to protect it. That's just my thinking when you were speaking a little bit about.

K

The shave, which is the one I don't know which one the one the one on the water, the one that's.

P

On the water, that's the one comment on that one. I would like you to raise it up and leave it by the.

P

Water, we're not touching that one okay, you're not gonna get one is in it that one actually is very.

K

Well, protected, okay, good, and if you saw one of the early diagrams that was presented, that was.

K

Actually relocated from from the mechanic street wharf, so that's not the original location yeah. I.

P

Know it used to be down by gina's just to address you would ask about when you say the stage is.

K

Original, do you mean it's current location, building around its current location.

P

Wherever you're going to move it leave it in it's similar to the current location and then put the.

P

Building around it like a half circle type, I just want to make clear there's no way that we could.

K

Actually leave the stage where it isn't built around it. We just can't do that. No and you weren't.

K

Suggesting that okay and it's not and also just so, um there's clarity around this we're not proposing.

L

That the stage be in the liberty park, where the trial gardens are, that is not no no you're. Just.

P

Proposing it being that, when you move the shaw building closer to marcy street, that you're going.

P

To put the stage in front of the quote: unquote edition, so that they can access it for the place.

P

And all I'm saying is that when you do that, you eliminate the access to those buildings.

P

When plays are going on, in my opinion, okay um and again, noise is a is, is a big issue and that's why.

P

I think the direction should stay the way it is one of you talked about. Let's keep it closer to.

P

The bridge, because that way it has that tip. So those are my comments for now. I look forward.

P

To seeing what comes up next, thank you. Thank you. Anybody else from the public wish to speak.

J

uh Good evening my name is tom watson and I'm at 200. Newcastle avenue.

J

I'm also chair of the prescott park master plan implementation committee. I hadn't.

J

Planned to speak, but I I did want to comment on the previous speaker's suggestion and also.

J

Maybe add a little extra context to some of the questions that the commissioners have addressed.

J

The the key thing to keep in mind with the master plan, which is somebody observed, is a park first.

J

Plan but a plan that also acknowledges that the arts are an important common component of the park.

J

Is that the master plan is really a series of compromises.

J

That allow all those things to interact while still maintaining that park first and.

J

A key component of that that balance, if you will, is this uh seating, bowl or or.

J

Audience area and that's there for the that's designed for the very specific purpose.

J

Of uh identifying that portion of the park, which will be devoted to.

J

The arts, the in the in the community that shows up there the size of that area, is important because.

J

It defines the size of crowd that will uh be accommodated. The path that surrounds it is.

J

Important because it defines the boundaries that that audience will be requested to stay within.

J

It was, it was located where it is because it also keeps what used to be a crowd.

J

Spread that would head toward the memorial bridge toward the old.

J

Pier 1 building, and so it's very important that that seating bowl be recognized as as.

J

Important, it also addresses this gentleman's concerns about the orientation of the stage.

J

And it also addresses the concerns about the dispersal of sound, many of which have now been.

J

uh Addressed in the last couple of years, as a result of the purchase of new sound.

J

Equipment and the increasing improvement in sound technology that will be able to focus.

J

Sound, the other part of that that is important is when, when we talk about unifying the park,.

J

uh There are several components that uh reach that ability one is to raise: what used what is.

J

Water street, so that is no longer inaccessible to easily transf transfer from one part of the park.

J

To the other, because of the stairs the difference in elevation, the other is again with that seating.

J

Bowl, it allows for even during performances the ability for anybody to go through the.

J

Park on this long pathway, that starts at what will be the new entrance at the intersection.

J

Of state street and marcie street and will work its way all the way through uh to the.

J

Past past the trial gardens into the mechanic street entrance that is meant to be open and.

J

Available without any handicap impediments throughout all you know, 24 hours a day.

J

And so that's why you may recall that the original plan that was adopted by the city.

J

Council in january of 2017 actually had the stage up in a in a more diagonal location.

J

Between the existing shaw location and the player's ring it's because of these.

J

Environmental issues that has caused us to say we ca by having to move shaw closer to marcy street.

J

We can no longer keep the stage there. The original bowl that was approved by the city council.

J

Was was on a more diagonal orientation? We can't do that anymore. That's why we're now looking at.

J

How to accommodate a redesigned bowl and therefore to line up the the buildings.

J

Temporary and otherwise it would be necessary to to both fully use the seating bowl and to allow.

J

The park to continue to have an equal flow of people at all times uh to this prior speaker's.

J

Comment, uh the problem therefore becomes, if, if you were to keep the existing stage, location.

J

You wouldn't have a seating bowl, because you'd literally have the stage in the middle of the.

J

Seating bowl, which would cause people to have to disperse back into the other areas.

J

For instance, the public speaking forum in those areas, which is one of the primary things we were.

J

Trying to solve in that master planning process, the other would be you'd. Have the.

J

Stage sitting in the middle of a potential water retention area, which would cause all sorts of.

J

Safety hazards, you can only imagine the problems with electrical and otherwise, if you're sitting in.

J

The middle of a retaining pawn, so those really are my comments. Thank you. Thank you, as you can.

K

See we're very lucky to have the the blue ribbon committee members. All of them are incredibly well.

K

Informed about the park's history and all of these issues, it's been a very long process. The.

K

Master plan, this all the approvals over the years. It's it's a very. um It takes a lot of.

K

Work and research to keep up with it all this there's there's a reason for every single decision.

K

Every decision has a history on the park: there's a reason why we go in these directions, so tom's a.

K

Great example of how well informed our members are on the committee, they've been an extreme.

K

Extremely helpful group good. Thank you. Anybody else from the public wishing to speak.

C

No okay, which I'll close the public work session, any other comments or.

C

Questions from the commission- yes, martin dan, did you want to make your case first.

G

Just a quick question: how much bigger is that seating area it's more present to.

F

Propose it's: um it's not quite double because of the configuration, but it has greatly increased a.

L

Contiguous discernible seating area and maintained this promenade through the park that does not.

L

Interfere- and that was a big call to action at the beginning- it's actually it's not as much square.

M

Footage like in terms of size as much as the relocation of the state just makes it more right.

L

Is far greater because the crowd was spilling, you know all the way to the whale and all the.

L

Way and now it's a more contiguous, I I think my question, I'm sure you have an answer for it is.

G

What bothers me is you, you have the shawl moved, you have the addition, and then you have the stage.

G

And to me they look all they they look incongruous. Why isn't the that? The addition is there to.

G

Support the stage: why not make the stage part of the design of the edition and do it all in one.

K

You mean I mean to a hard construction of the states, a permanent state.

G

Yeah that that gets into what we're we're we're currently not allowed to there are we're not we.

K

Can't do a permanent stage what the the um the agreement doesn't allow us to right now.

M

I guess on the temporary side, though, is the question um you said contiguous or incongruent.

M

You know, I think, that's just a question which is you know what does a temporary stage.

M

Design look like right, you know that makes it more consistent with the waterfront and sort of the.

M

Wharf idea, if that's what you were asking, I'm not sure, and you know there's nothing to suggest that.

K

We can't that I mean that stage where it is right now on that that phase ii diagram we're showing it.

K

Behind the addition I mean it, it can move off of what off of that axis. If you want to give dominant.

K

Dominance to the buildings and get the stage off the access it's possible for us to pull the stage.

K

Forward off the access towards the ball yeah, I mean we've done it before we. We have diagrams.

K

Where, like on the the phase, one condition on the left shows it pulled forward. um But again when we.

K

Fully design the addition and the stage and understand how, during a performance, that's the.

K

Key how people might want to be going in and out of the building using it for for changing.

K

Costumes or as a green room or where the band is seating, this all of that still needs to be.

K

Considered, and and by putting the show where we're proposing it now allows us to have that.

K

Full discussion and study yeah yeah. That's a well well framed joe david. Following that idea. um It.

B

It seems like this is probably the last shot. We have of lining up a group of we'll call mercantile.

B

Looking buildings along the axis of what was once a wharf, I would think that we'd want to take.

B

As many steps as we could given that this is a clear canvas at the moment,.

B

Or a relatively unsolid canvas, but we may take as many steps as we could to to reinforce a.

B

Waterfront looking road on one side to reinforce the water for that linear part of it. The idea of.

B

Putting a a barely above grade square, heavily lit modern deck stage, as part of that grouping seems.

B

Like a little too anachronistic and the idea of pulling that stage away from the building so that.

B

We could have these historic wharf buildings in your new access building, which is going to look.

B

Something like one of them reinforcing this theme again again. They we can't line up five homeowners.

B

To build their homes in a line like this and cover them with shingles, but we can in a public setting.

B

Take a theme and run that snot out of it right right, right, yeah, uh it seems like a better use.

B

Of the theme to slightly disengage, this idea of a platformer performance platform from this.

B

Linear mercantile row just a thought: keeping with the theme to speak further to that nick.

K

Can you go to the slide? I think it's a site plan that I think it's a 1920 site plan I was. I was.

B

We have uh application coming up later. No, no, no, I'm sorry continuing with the thought yeah. We have.

B

An application coming up tonight, we've all seen uh something to do with a building on prey street.

B

A new proposed building and we got a little inset from a map from a couple of you know, 100 years ago,.

B

Or more, we had a little inset of a map showing the area and the linear access to the water. That.

B

Along the waterfront today we have houses, sprinkled along the marcy street and whatever, but.

B

Back in this time when these buildings were built, this idea of access to the water access to the.

B

Water and all roads went right to the wall. It is right there on the screen. I mean on the axis that.

K

We're talking about you can see how many buildings were on that that access that rail, as we call it.

C

And then to the left I mean it's, it's it's so open exaggerated. It's unbelievable that the the linear.

K

Buildings just heading right to the piers. If there was a thing that you could figuratively accomplish.

B

In the midst of doing your other task, to line this up, to create an opportunity for people to see that.

B

Yeah to get an idea that would help them see what you were doing so much more yeah, yeah right and.

M

And I would even go as far as like when these are in their line. How do they also relate to the.

M

To the sheaf right, because it's it's not just the shaw and the addition and let's say the.

M

Stage but it's the complete set of parts as it relates as far out to the water as the chief, so.

M

That's an exciting set of connections and how they all work together, yeah! Well, thank you. So much.

C

So joe you're not asking for any kind of approval tonight you are updating us.

K

If you see we on our on our phase, one target dates. There's a it goes out. You know, through.

K

The end of the year, but we'll be back before you soon we'll actually have a hearing to.

K

To to present some more firm ideas on on moving forward yeah, so we're not continuing.

C

A work session we are yeah, we should. We should continue yeah, that that would be good all right.

C

So unless there any other issues or questions I'll entertain a motion to continue this work session.

C

Two moves, second and all in favor all right and I'll check with john and reagan, hi.

D

Hey. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks nick yeah.

C

Okay, so our next worst session is requested by working stiff properties, llc owner for a.

C

Property located at 92 pleasant street, wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to.

C

An existing structure, replace windows and storm windows, construct an iron balcony and replace.

C

Two windows, with balcony doors, as for plans on file in the planning department, said property.

C

Is located is shown on assessor map 107 as lot 76 and lies within the character district 4.

C

Downtown overlay and historic districts, hello, hi good evening good evening, if.

C

You'd like to introduce yourselves so we can get started, I'm matthew, beebe.

Q

I'm a member of working stiff properties, I'm barbara jenny, I'm the other member.

Q

I can give you guys a sort of a brief summary of what we're hoping to accomplish, um but we thought.

Q

It would be a good idea to have a work session because there's a lot happening on this block and.

Q

uh Well, they're not happening well, we uh hopefully soon there'll be more happening, but we've been.

Q

We hadn't owned it for very long before the fire took most of the rest of the block and we've been.

Q

Sort of waiting and hoping to maybe do some of this collaboratively with the fluoros project.

Q

We're not sure when that's going to start so we're hoping to sort of get going on the things that we.

Q

Would like to do and envision, you know: restoring and repairing the building. The portion of the.

Q

Building where we own so well, because in general, because the description is of this balcony focus.

O

Mostly on the balcony, but the idea is to restore the exterior of the whole building.

O

Yeah to the limits that we own, so um I mean most of you- are probably familiar with um the.

Q

The benchmark of our portion of the building was the clip joint at one point for many many years.

Q

And they've since moved on and to their second location at this point um and so that portion.

Q

Of the building, we don't have an awful lot uh planned for at the moment with that sort of.

Q

More modern uh entry, but I wrote down a few goals in no particular order that some of the.

Q

Things that we're hoping to accomplish in the very near future would certainly.

Q

Be to increase the energy efficiency and that's sort of wrapped up in the overall.

Q

Restoration, we plan to preserve and restore as much of the original architectural features as.

Q

Possible so there's a lot of cool things that we think that are underneath the two layers or.

Q

The layer of aluminum siding and then the layer beneath that would be the original um wood siding.

Q

And we've peeled a little bit of the aluminum back to see some of the things so.

Q

We're kind of excited about what's there and and hope to bring all that back.

Q

um One of the main things on our application tonight is to discuss and open a discourse.

Q

About the replacement or repair of the windows, um barbara- and I both have some very strong opinions.

Q

On how we'd like that to go, but we certainly want to hear from the board on that.

Q

We um a couple of minor things: we have this sort of ugly service entrance on the back of the.

Q

Building with multiple meters yeah we're hoping to uh we're hoping to clean that up, I had a meeting.

Q

Scheduled with eversource this morning and they conveniently forgot to show up so I have nothing.

Q

That I can add to that at the moment, but we're rescheduled for tomorrow, so we're hoping that.

Q

There's some things that we can do there to to maybe pretty that up a little bit or.

O

To move it or put it in a board, put it in a more discreet location, right.

Q

And then probably the major ask on our application is to be able to convert a couple of.

Q

On that same facade, those two upper windows on the right hand, side we were hoping to convert those to.

Q

Balcony doors and have a small victorian like wrought iron combination, iron and wood, balcony.

Q

May be pulling the idea of the same corbels that are up underneath the it's hard to see in this.

Q

View but they're the green cobbles that are above the second story, windows at the eve and below the.

Q

Dormers a version of that design underneath the balcony to pull those elements together.

Q

So a brief overview on the windows and we did have a site visit with nick who was kind enough.

Q

To come on- and we talked about a bunch of things here so there's six dormers on our.

Q

Portion of the building each of those windows is an 80s or so version replacement version. The old.

Q

Rivco window company that used to be in penacook they're and they are falling apart. So.

Q

Our proposal would be to remove those and replace those with.

Q

New construction, green mountain windows, so they would have traditional five quarter, trim.

Q

Thick two inch we would have, they would be painted, of course, but we would use mahogany sills to help.

Q

Preserve against rot so that those could last hopefully a hundred years or so, which the rivko.

Q

Certainly have not been able to accomplish um and then uh and actually and that's on both sides.

O

Right, there's three door windows on the front right, so this is there's six total right and then.

Q

um Disregarding the two windows we're asking about the balcony doors, the remainder of the windows.

Q

Our choice would be to replace those with green mountain windows that are the sash and balance.

Q

Replacement types, which means it's not a full box replacement window, it's just the sash.

Q

And they have make a beautiful concealed balance, so you can't really.

Q

It doesn't look like the vinyl or the aluminum balances that you would see in a traditional.

Q

Replacement window, I think it's what they used in one of the buildings across the street from us.

A

A few people have used it here, yeah, so I'm sure you guys are familiar with it, but.

Q

The the other option, of course, would be, and we've spoken to luka celebic.

Q

Who's done, a bunch of restorations downtown would be to restore each window individually.

Q

Remove the storms and then replace the storms, because the the restored sash would only be.

Q

Single strength, glass and that would definitely not be within our hopes for energy efficiency.

Q

And I'm sure the inspection department would frown on us from putting single strength, glass.

Q

Back in this building so or aesthetics yeah, so we we discussed. You know the pros and cons of.

O

Restoring the windows, and then you know getting new storms on the outside um and just.

O

Versus getting these very high quality replacement windows that are, you know, have the.

O

Mo the mutton bars, the mutton bars traditional um and you know, as I sent nick a bunch of pictures.

O

This afternoon, as I walk through town, I think the you know restorations, where there's newer.

O

Windows with no storm windows and no screens um look far better and.

O

Then restorations, where there's a storm on the outside, um you know where you get just.

O

One giant reflection and you've got usually these aluminum storms, um so I think for us.

O

You know aesthetically, and you know functionally. The replacement windows are the way to go.

Q

There's no uh currently to our knowledge, except for the roof at the third floor level, which had.

Q

Been changed at some point about 20 years ago, the ceiling, I should say, underneath the roof at the.

Q

Third floor level, the other three main facades of the house: there's no insulation in the walls.

Q

So our proposal would be to take off all the aluminum we'd like to evaluate the.

Q

Pine collaborate signing underneath, if it's not in terrible shape, we might consider restoring that so.

Q

Scraping and painting and keeping it, but we would like to you know we want to blow in insulation a.

Q

Mineral wool, insulation or the equivalent, and do that from the outside, which would mean removing.

Q

Cladbirds drill, you guys are familiar with the process, so it's a little bit painstaking.

Q

My concern about the old pine clabbered siding, of course, is that when they put it on back in the.

Q

1800S they didn't know how to back prime the wood, then. So it's bare wood on there on the back side.

Q

It's painted on the face and the reason it has aluminum siding on it. Now, as I'm.

Q

Sure the previous owners got tired of repainting every two or three years, so.

Q

The solution would be to tear all of it off and it's loaded with lead paint. So I.

Q

Have a contractor: who would do that so we can comply with? You know the removal of lead.

Q

On structures, laws and we would replace it with- um and I've got a sample here actually of what.

Q

We used on our own house, but there are a couple of companies still in new england that are producing.

Q

You know like a traditional, I can pass these around, so here's an example of a cedar collaborate.

Q

Which I'm sure everyone's seen and you'll notice that it has a sort of rounded teased edge and then.

Q

This is produced by a company called the ward clapboard mill, so this is spruce which I've.

Q

Used but we would use pine, um it comes in shorter lengths which they came in shorter lengths back.

Q

In the old days you didn't have 16 foot runs of of this, and this has that sharp cut detail. So you can.

Q

Pass that around we would, if we had to replace the siding which I'm assuming we'll have to do.

Q

We would use this type of siding, so it's a clear, vertical grain. It's a it's! A cool, little tiny.

Q

That it cuts the collaborates, it spins the log and cuts the cladbirds radially. So.

Q

And I'm sure other people are using well, maybe some others have used this, but we redid our.

Q

Entire house at 81 lincoln avenue with these, which is just down the street, so I know what you don't.

Q

Have an awful lot of spare time to drive around to look at properties. But if you wanted to see.

Q

What it looks like we actually went, I'm not sure I can do it here, but we went so far in our houses to.

Q

Actually set the nails and fill the holes and sand it like they did back in the old days. So.

Q

None of the nail heads were exposed either, which was it looks great, but that took a lot of time.

O

And then one of the other things we'd like to do and.

O

I don't think you can really see them in the one historic photo. That's in this file.

O

I have another photo from the athenaeum from the other direction, where you can see the little feet.

O

Under the windowsills or little corbels and again, I have other photos from around town.

O

Of you know, there's a few buildings on court street that have those little mini corbels.

O

Under the sills, so I would like to replace those and I think, we're going to we're in agreement.

O

About that, to get that look back um and then there's also a question where again, the other.

O

Photo that I have you can kind of see them the on the gable end, the third floor windows there's two.

O

Floor windows, it looks like from the inside that they might have been curved actually at the top.

O

And so once we get the siding off and we can really see um we've gotten an estimate for you.

O

Know the replacement windows to actually restore that to have the curve, and we don't know you.

O

Know if they would have, it would have just been that smooth curve. It would have had that little.

O

uh Key in the middle um or not um yeah, for the outside yeah, we can't see it until we pull off the.

Q

Aluminum but it may have a key in the head casing so we'll see, but so I didn't do it justice in my.

Q

Elevation of that gable end because I didn't realize until after we went up and took some.

Q

Closer measurements that it actually is the the original frame of the window has a curved top and.

Q

When they did their rivco replacement windows, they just cut on a bandsaw a little a little crescent.

Q

And nailed it to the top of an existing window, so it would make contact and not have air moving. But.

Q

We would we talked to green mountain and had them actually estimate to build the window.

Q

With the proper radiused curve on the top of the upper sash, so which I think would look really cool.

P

A nice little detail coming up pleasant street. If you see that cable one.

C

And then you want to speak about the addition of the porch. Yes, the balcony is the biggest. I.

O

Think change you know everything else is really restoring we're trying to restore what once was.

O

um And this is just adding um some sort of fun functionality, so we live there. um You know that.

O

Side faces, you know west southwest, um so lovely to step out and watch the fireworks and have morning.

O

Coffee or an evening cocktail um just thought that would be lovely and I have little visions.

O

Of being in paris, which is you know whatever, but um so that idea of being able to you know open up.

O

These doors and and have a little outside space, even in that little bit of pavement.

O

Paradise out there yeah that, as you probably all know, that's the facade that faces the five.

Q

Space parking lot, where all the clip joint folks used to park and that little cross section of the.

Q

Small one story piece is that one story piece that uh the clip joint had added on. Like I don't know.

Q

Like maybe 20 years ago, that little l on the side yeah so and we we do want to at some point bring.

Q

That up to the same level, meaning we would replace those windows and replace the siding it has hardy.

Q

Siding on it right now, which is falling apart, it looks terrible, but we're sort of waiting to see.

Q

What the fluoresce project does with that wing wall because I'd hate to rebuild that and then.

Q

If they get into demolition and that cmu wall collapses and crushes our work, that would be a.

Q

Little disappointing yeah so we're, I think, we're going to put that in our back pocket for the time.

Q

Being yeah, okay yeah, so we looked at a lot of designs of balconies and it just seemed that.

O

You know repeating in a way the corbels that are up on the eve underneath the balcony to support.

O

And then using a wrought iron design, I talked to peter hatney about. I showed him pictures um from.

O

The um frank, um oh frank, jones, frank jones, mansion and he and if you've ever been to peter shop, it's.

O

Wonderful he's like I, I used to have a bunch of that it used to go around the whole top of it.

O

So we dug and he thought he got rid of rid of it, but um there's still a portion above like a bay.

O

I don't know what you that sort of juts out and he thought for sure that he could take that design.

O

And sort of stretch it out and fill it in and make it to code.

O

With the railing and sort of use that the frank jones wrought iron as inspiration.

O

um Just so we're not kind of making it up, you know I mean I have again some samples that I sent nick.

O

You know on islington street, it's a it's one of those clubs, it's not a club. um You know like.

O

The not the masons, but it's on islington kind of across from the mobile station um up at the end.

O

Of pearl street and they have a little wrought iron above their door entrance. But it's like.

O

Harps or something loots or something I don't you know so um you know looking around to try to get.

O

Inspiration from local buildings, um you know not making it up from my parisian dream, so there's.

O

Some sort of new england reference there and using that so he thought that could be done for sure.

C

All right any questions or comments from the commission.

D

No yes, john yeah. There was a piece of that uh iron railing from the.

D

Mansion the governor's mansion that was on woodbury avenue, where uh portsmouth housing.

D

Has all of their little cottages and um that had balconies with iron railings around them.

D

So I guess uh the only thing I can say about your plan is the devils are definitely in the details.

D

Because I don't think any of us wants to see this so-called romeo and juliet type of things anymore.

D

Especially on a historic structure, I would prefer that you leave the six over six windows.

D

Personally, myself, and I would also urge you to consider changing the old clip joint storefront.

D

Which I remember it is al's the barber shop anyways. It's been there a long time and.

D

You know if you wanted to change it in conjunction with what flores is doing. That would be great.

D

um I think you probably have to um otherwise. I I think your plans are good and well thought.

D

Out you know what you're up against and um so good luck to you bye, bye. Thank you.

B

If you don't mind how you control like half of this building, yes, what happens to the other half.

Q

Well, that's an excellent question, in fact: well, the last work session was going on. I.

Q

Went back to review the plans that michael keane did for the floros building to see.

Q

What he had specified and I think that it's gone through nick, if I'm not incorrect, hasn't.

Q

It gone through all htc approvals. It's been vetted right, so he doesn't give an awful lot of detail.

Q

On that facade he just says: uh when did I wrote it down? It said new painted wood cladbirds match.

Q

Existing exposure, so my question: we came to some of those hearings. I don't know why. I didn't ask.

Q

This then, but my question would have been well the way it's it looks in the photos. Now it's all.

Q

Aluminum siding so that's a fixed four inch coursing. It never changes right and it just.

Q

Gets cut around the window sure wherever they start? That's where the four inch coursing starts.

Q

And that's not how cloud wetting was done. That's exactly right! So an existing so like.

Q

I would encourage them and I'm hoping what really we'd be sort of mentoring, what they do.

Q

If we do our building traditionally so that the collaboratives line up with the sills and.

Q

Line up with the window tops we're going to come to that point where it's halfway.

Q

I think that he showed, in his plan a vertical board to separate the two. It's not clearly.

Q

Noted or called out that wouldn't be my first choice. My first choice would be to break our.

Q

Collaboratives back with small pieces, and you know um and variable not just you know,.

Q

Every other one being distinct so that they could weave, because the little window should all line up.

Q

They could weave their collaborates back in to ours, but then you've got the issue of what do.

Q

We do where the building is divided. If we choose one color and they choose another. So this is a.

Q

It's an excellent question. I don't really know the best answer yeah. Well, you can even see again.

O

We don't have the other historic photo here. You can see that they were different colors.

O

Even then the townhomes, so that's so what we've got is you actually have no plan whatsoever.

B

And- and we don't know what peter's really going to do- that we have our plan and he has his plan and.

B

How do we that's that's why this is a that's a tough one to face. I was on this side of the.

B

Bench, if you want to know but yeah yeah, I'm sure it's difficult on your side too. So, but.

B

Wow we're not even certain we're gonna have a unified paint scheme to the building.

B

We actually have no real way of making that happen. Painting is not in our purview, fascinating.

B

Thank you very much. No and again historically they were different colors. So you know all runs. Have.

O

Clabbered but different colors, interesting yeah, no idea what they're planning to do with those old.

F

Solar panels and uh those are ours, those are those are ours. Yeah we came before the board yeah right.

F

Right at the beginning of our ownership, okay, yeah, which is why you know the thought is if we can get.

O

The electric: what do you call that the electrical oh, the service center, the service entrance, get the.

O

If it can go underground and the meters around the corner or if it can be just moved over so all.

O

The mechanical muckety-muck is sort of in that area. You know over the l and by the l and then.

O

There's some sort of trellis or something yeah in a perfect world to the left of the entrance. The.

Q

Back door entrance because then you could have some plantings in there that kind of screen. It.

Q

A little bit, but I don't know that in this instance like we're, experienced with screening.

Q

The mechanical stuff, it's not screened on the the existing stuff, that's on the building. It's on that.

Q

Single story building you can see I've noted it there's a couple of condensers up there now.

Q

That are just open to public view. Now, if we we don't have it planned for this.

Q

Particular renovation, but we would like to probably add some more air conditioning to.

Q

The building at some point, we probably want to take advantage of the same location, to put the.

Q

Condensers or down on the ground behind that door in a way that we can screen it. But we probably.

Q

Want to screen it in either case, I just don't know I've never screened something on a rooftop before.

Q

So I don't know how we would address that rich. Thank you. um Yes, I wasn't here when they approved.

F

Obviously the floral side of this building is it. um Would I be guessing correctly if they did the.

F

Vertical to separate it because of we don't have any perfume or pain or anything, and that would.

F

You know kind of mimic what looks around town where buildings were kind of separated, different.

F

Times or um you can distinctly see the two different properties in the same building.

F

Yeah, I think it's also. I see that dan has the the drawing there there. There are corner boards in.

C

Other parts of the building- and so I think there was some mimicking going on okay, yeah, there's a.

Q

Unique and it doesn't travel all the way around the back. I noted that in this elevation, but there.

Q

Is a unique horizontal band that sort of divides the building horizontally, almost in half that they.

Q

Recreated with the aluminum they just did, you know some coil stock and folded it around. It.

Q

So I guess my only concern would be we're gonna if we do a vertical board on the front, which I think.

Q

Is a good way to delineate it, but how is that gonna look if we restore that horizontal band.

Q

You know, do we cut through it? We just come down on top of it top and bottom, and then I guess we paint.

Q

That vertical piece the same color as the clabber to try to get it to recede into the background.

Q

This is showing up today. I don't know I mean I yeah. Well, I'm looking for some advice. I guess so.

R

A lot of different voices here I just have a question um sure.

L

The bulkhead goes away, and that's just a hatch now is that right, no, the the bulkhead actually.

Q

Is um I mean it may end up needing a little bit of additional restoration in the future.

I

Yeah, I actually fixed those doors up a little bit a little while ago. Just made it. You know it.

Q

Was like a replacement in kind, it's the same beaded board, and all that I saw like a uh a.

L

Trim below that I didn't know if that was a hatch or it wasn't, it's still a bulkhead. Yes,.

C

Martin, uh I think you're proposing some really great things with this building. It's.

G

Terrific to see you want to bring back the the clapboards, and uh I assume the the green mountain.

G

Are going to be replacement sashes, that's all wonderful stuff! Take away the the storm windows.

G

Again, terrific, I applaud that. I hate that destroy people's dreams, but I don't know if I.

G

Can support the balcony? um I take that money that you would put into the balcony go to france. I mean.

Q

It's just a one, stop the one off it's, it would be a. It would be.

G

Not appropriate for this house or style-wise, it's and I hate doing this. I hate telling.

G

You that, because you know, I would love to have a balcony off of my house as well, but.

G

um It would have to be a 42-inch rail and it just wouldn't be appropriate for this.

G

um For this house for this edition, everything else you're doing is fantastic. I wouldn't wait.

G

For the other owner lead it, you know you do what's appropriate for your block of the building.

G

And they'll follow eventually as long as you do it right. um So I applaud you and I'm sorry.

G

Well, I mean I I respectfully disagree. I mean the.

O

I mean it's the back of the building. um You know we're going to be restoring everything else and.

O

And, and and bringing back all these details and charms to the building, so I feel like.

O

Adding some, you know fun functionality to this back of the building where it is this horrible.

O

Cinder block wall on the flora and the floros back part: it's pavement it's you know we do have.

O

Mechanicals and solar panels right, so it's not the prettiest side of the building. Anyway, it was sort.

O

Of the excuse why the htc gave us the solar panels to begin with, it was sort of ugly back there.

G

So and that cinder block wall fluoros plans to keep it um so you know so then I may as well.

O

Have a lovely balcony to sit on and and watch the sunset and have a cocktail. So it's sort of nice.

G

That all sounds terrific, but I'm sorry yeah. Maybe we could get wyland to come back and paint the.

Q

Whale on the cmu wall, no wait yeah. We had thoughts about that. But let's stand okay jump in yes, reagan.

E

I don't want to interrupt anybody else. I can't see who's getting ready to speak or anything.

E

Yeah I just I wanted to echo martin's comments. This is a really um great step forward. You're.

E

Taking with this building- and I agree lead it, do it right so that whatever the rest of the.

E

Building has to do, hopefully they can match what you do and if they have to come back before us.

E

To kind of tweak their design a little bit in order to match great, um so I I think that's all.

E

Wonderful, the the windows, um I mean we really want to always encourage the retention of.

E

Historic windows um and even the green mountain replacements, sash sound great all that stuff, but.

E

They just if they're they just won't last as long as the historic windows have already lasted and.

E

Will last if they're restored and done properly, I totally understand the energy efficiency.

E

Issue there are also much better looking storm windows out there than what you have.

E

And- and I I also I'm having trouble with the balcony and the windows, um if, if you could bring.

E

Us any um examples of similar things on a similar type of building anywhere in our historic district.

E

Maybe that would might sway me, but I can't think of any. We have approved a lot of.

E

Balconies on new construction, because it's more appropriate to a building being constructed today,.

E

um In certain parts of the city, but even though this is the back of the building, it's still so.

E

Highly visible, I mean you're right on court street. It may as well be another front of the building.

E

No matter how ugly and junky it is with all the utilities, um you're not hidden a lot of times, we.

E

We talk about back of the building and give it a little bit more sort of leeway.

E

But that's generally with the assumption that you can't see the back of the building so.

E

So yeah I'm gonna have trouble accepting these ornate sort of wrought iron balcony on.

E

This type of building, um that being said, though, on the on the front and the rest of it, I really.

E

Applaud your work to bring it back up. um I can't wait to see what you peel back from the aluminum.

E

Siding been there a long time and um yeah. No thank you for taking care of this building. Okay,.

F

I was just going to echo what uh reagan's saying, although it's the back of the.

F

Building it is very visible street from court street and right across from you.

F

Are two buildings that they've done a wonderful job, restoring and hopefully.

F

Someday down the street, the old firehouse at the old bakery is gonna. Go back to the.

F

To the way it used to be so the opposite side of the street on a very important street in town.

F

Has has done a great job and I'm not sure the balcony fits in with all that.

C

I'm gonna ask if anyone from the public would like to speak to this work session.

C

C

Very good all right, so um I think what the consensus I'm hearing is that the balconies are.

C

Balcony is an issue um and you're welcome to try again with something either. That is a different.

C

Configuration or you can demonstrate something- that's happened in the historic district before.

C

That's appropriate for this building a lot of kudos for your plans to restore and bring.

C

Back some of the old features taking a look at restoring the older windows, if possible,.

C

And I think we would also be interested to know if you can peel back a little bit just what it is.

C

You're going to be finding underneath there yeah and especially for those curved windows, I think.

O

You know um so I guess we have to think if we want to do another work session or not, but I you know I.

O

Already said, we've had the conversation when we talked about restoring versus replacing, and I.

O

Will dig in to the replacing again because of the efficiency, but also because I think it looks.

O

Better and I took a lot of pictures of houses in the south end with the replacement windows.

O

With no storm- and I have pictures of you- know- restored windows with new fancy, storms and those.

O

Don't look good, you have one giant reflection, it's a waste to even have all the divided lights.

O

Because you can't see them behind the storms and then having that you know, even if you just.

O

Have a half screen, we won't have any screens we're going to do the little pull down screens.

O

On the inside, so you won't have any screens. So um I really think it looks so much better.

O

We can certainly clean, we can get to the windows and clean and maintain them actually a lot easier.

O

Without storms over restored windows, so I will be digging on that one for sure so.

O

Well, I think it's important to note, too that, regarding the two buildings across the street,.

Q

That have been restored so lovingly. The pumpkin house has restored windows with storms and the.

Q

Next house over has all green mountain replacement sash imbalances, so you can actually stand.

Q

With your back up against our gable end and see both of those at the same time, and then.

Q

Consider you know what would it be that great of a difference if we used the replacement window here.

Q

But you know, as a builder who's now being forced by code to try to build new construction.

Q

To a point of air changes per hour, which you know I couldn't get one room of this place to meet the.

Q

Current code, but each one of those windows has a pocket about that wide and about that deep.

Q

That's got nothing in it, but window weights and that's just cold air going out all the time. So.

Q

There's ways for us to mitigate that a little bit on the outside, but we can never.

Q

Get it the same as if we replaced that sash and filled that with blown in insulation, so.

Q

You know I I too, you know, I appreciate the restoration idea of the window. We went through.

Q

The exercise of meeting with someone and the pricing is not outrageously different.

Q

But it is an aesthetic for us that I think it would look better to have the green mountains.

Q

Up but I mean that ultimately would be left up to the commission to vote. Okay, so desire.

C

Is to continue the work session, or do you want to close the work session, and I would say if you.

O

Really want to go. Do one more work session, see if I can convince you about a balcony.

F

uh And we'll try that with more images yeah did you have a comment? No okay could.

G

I head take one more whack at it, just a crazy idea. um I think possibly, what might be more.

G

Acceptable is, if you created a door coming out onto that low roof. That is was part of.

G

That addition and left the uh you know you're coming off the bedroom. I see in.

G

Plan, possibly for a balcony, I don't know if that's acceptable to the board, but to build.

B

A walkway on the roof of that one story: audition yeah, potentially a porch up there.

O

We have soul, that's where all the solar stuff is that'd have to go. Yeah, yeah! Well, there's.

Q

Two things there's there's two parts to that. The second part is that that window actually.

Q

Belongs to the apartment, that's beside sierra. The second floor is divided into half a unit.

Q

That goes to the third floor and the other is a lovely, so she's gonna raise her hand now.

Q

Is that emotion, john? Yes, it is the next month, second, and all in favor, all right.

C

John and reagan: hi. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So much for your time.

B

Thank you, there's an iron balcony on siri street. Thank you. Yes, there you're going to.

O

Find it it's a brick building right, but it's something you might want to look at.

F

Okay, a work session requested by one market square llc owner for property located at one.

C

Congress street, wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure.

C

Repair and upgrade building facades along congress and high streets and new construction to an.

C

Existing structure replace rear, shed editions with new four to five story. Addition, as for plans on.

C

File in the planning department said, property is shown at cesar map 117 as lot 14 and lies within.

C

The character district, 5., downtown overlay and historic districts, tracy hi good evening.

C

Don't you introduce yourselves and let you take off tracy kozak.

N

Arco of architects tonight and with mark mcnabb from mcnab properties and one market square llc.

N

Thank you for having us. This is our first work session, we're here to talk.

N

About context and masking the first of our four step work session process.

N

I'm sure you're all familiar with this building, it's the corner of high street and.

N

Congress street directly across from the north church, it's recently known as the jarvis block.

N

Before that they block it's the home to opal and oak and the rudy's restaurant was there.

N

One thing you should know is that this is uh as as of I guess. Friday was two parcels lot. 14 and 15.

N

Which is uh as of a couple days ago or yesterday today, maybe emerged. So it's all one lot now.

N

So a lot of what we have on the front page with uh the two different lots in cd4 cd5.

N

We believe goes away because it's now all one lot.

N

The context maps are on the next page, showing where the the parcel is located. It's it's a really.

N

Fascinating site in terms of urban wayfinding- and this is one of the major themes we're looking at.

N

Is to create connections between major and minor but interesting public spaces throughout the city.

N

So we have um lad street which comes in from the south and high street and then there's the parking.

N

Garage lad street, as you know, continues across market street connecting to commercial alley and.

N

Then the mcintyre and if you continue lad street past high street, it becomes haven court, which is a.

N

Private easement, it's a private right-of-way, but visually. It connects all the way to fleet street.

N

And so a major goal of this project is to improve haven court with public access to.

N

Link commercial alley to fleet street and really begin to connect the city.

N

um Let's see the next page, this is the existing building. As you see, it's actually two buildings.

N

One congress is at the corner: it's the brick um gothic romanesque building and.

N

Then, to the left of it is the white painted brick building. That's three congress street.

N

Above rudy's we'll talk a little bit about the development of these buildings as we get.

N

Into the next pages, as you turn down high street, there's a pink and white painted wood building.

N

Behind the brick building, and that is a really unique building as well all of these buildings.

N

Have some fabulous ornate and very unique detailing that you don't find really anywhere.

N

Else, it's it's fun, there's a lot of fun stuff and then, of course, there's a parking lot in back.

N

A surface parking lot, the next page 0.3. These are the street panoramas. The contacts around the area.

N

The top left picture is really the most important one, and I brought some large views of these images.

N

That that picture is iconic to portsmouth. It's looking down high street from lad at the north.

N

Steeple and as you know, the north steeple kind of defines our town, uh it's centered, epicenter.

N

Of downtown this giant, steeple, and so many people are delightfully surprised when they wander down.

N

Commercial alley and some of them might find their way down, lad street and they turn and they look to.

N

The left- and they see this steeple, that's framed by this little street, and it's just it dominates.

N

The whole street- it's incredible and- and it's just I think, one of the most powerful features of this.

N

Entire block is, maybe not the building itself, but but what's happening around the building.

N

So it's just one of those delightful surprises that people get when they're wandering around.

N

The city that's happening here, the other contextual buildings. On this page we have.

N

Some of the uh surprises down ladd street that there's that wonderful courtyard behind the.

N

Athenaeum, that has the spiral, staircases and fire escapes and that that kind of hidden cloister that.

N

You've come upon, we have a variety of buildings up around market square and pleasant street.

N

Most of them are four stories. We have some at four and a half three and a half um most of them.

N

Are brick we have some granite uh this building on the corner um of high and congress is mostly.

N

Brick, but it actually has some brown stone on it as well, and some terra cotta, which is pretty cool.

N

The next page, uh 0.4 are the historic photos, the building on the corner, the brick building at one.

N

Congress that came about in um around 1890- I guess 1900, but before that there was a three-story wood.

N

Clapboard commercial structure that came down in the late 1800s and it was replaced.

N

The existing building to the left of that was there a little bit earlier. It has some coining on.

N

The sides, a lot of that original detail- has been lost. We would like to restore the missing pieces.

N

On that building, and likewise on the one congress, the brick building on the corner.

N

The original storefront has has also been lost, we'd like to restore that you can see.

N

The original behind the pony on the bottom right there's a little pony, cart, saying.

N

Give donate your money to the u.s war, something like that. It was a bank originally and uh it the.

N

It had a really um beautiful. It looks like a granite um rusticated base that framed a.

N

Symmetrical cast iron storefront that was lost in the 1950s or 40s for a very modern brick and.

N

Aluminum thing, so we want to restore that and then last likewise, that pink and white wood building.

N

On high street, with the shallow arch, we it had a variety of uses. uh Looking at the sanborn maps in.

N

The past it was a bank and a barber shop, but one of the maps I found said it was an opera house and.

N

It's a really special building, it's very formal uh with the art and there's so much ornate carving on.

N

The window surrounds it's very unusual, it's it's quite beautiful. It needs a little maintenance, but.

N

It could be restored, and there also was originally a very formal entrance. On the first floor, which.

N

Has now been lost but again we'd like to restore that I haven't found a really clear.

N

Picture of what that used to be, we have just this oblique shot, but we're going to try to.

N

Uncover what that was and restore that as a main entrance to the.

N

Area, I won't read all of the next page, but there is a history narrative uh on the site and one of.

N

The interesting things we discovered is that in what is now the surface parking lot behind rudy's.

N

That used to be a hotel, it was called the dolphin hotel and for those of you that were here.

N

Pro in the 60s or earlier you may remember it was there it burned down in 1969 before.

N

It was known as the dolphin it was known as the national hotel, and I uh in the newspaper article.

N

The day after it burned down, it simply alluded to a hotel with a very colorful history, and I.

N

Haven't been able to figure out what that colorful history is, but it was a pretty big structure.

N

For 100 or 150 years, or so, we'd like to put another structure back where that building was.

N

The next page is the existing survey and you can see the parking lot. I just mentioned high street.

N

Haven, court towards the back towards the north: it's a relatively flat site.

N

And the next page shows um basically building out.

N

A majority of the parking lot and and restoring and renovating the existing buildings.

N

uh Maintaining the public ease way on haven court to the north for public access and.

N

Connections, as I mentioned, between commercial alley and fleet street.

N

And the next pages are just showing to continue the existing height that we have on the front.

N

Buildings across the back, uh I haven't gotten into design yet, but some of the things I just.

N

Brought some photos most of these already in here small, but some of the things we found.

N

Really compelling and unique about this site are things that we want to make sure we emphasize.

N

So that the addition tells the story of what we're adding onto this is not a freestanding building. So.

N

The connection to the existing is really important and the um anchoring this as this addition as a.

N

Way-Finding element of itself in that sequence of traveling commercial alley to flea street. How does.

N

This building help people find their way and how does it? How does it encourage them to turn left.

N

And look at the steeple and and find their way by placing these landmarks and connecting the dots.

N

um One of the interesting things um I noticed uh in looking at this building.

N

A lot of people say: what's up with that: roof that that weird skylight on the top you notice.

N

You know what I'm talking about that with the four large light supplies here. It is so it's on the man.

N

Started roof got these these windows and, like you know, really see that a lot in portsmouth so.

N

As it turns out, this building has been a long home to a sequence of photographers.

N

And prints print shops, print book, binders and printmakers. This was a photography studio. I'm told.

N

They needed the light for the studio, they also had a dark room, presumably and- and it just seems.

N

Like that, there's this real difference between light and dark. Also, when you look at the front.

N

Of the building you have the very beautiful but heavy brick cordling. You have the carved.

N

The carved terracotta, um there's a here check this, isn't this amazing there's this carved terracotta.

N

Medallion you've got the the brick patterning and the the brownstone keystones. It's really rich.

N

It's great, it's very heavy, and you also notice the.

N

Medallion of the terracotta flower is closed here, so it the building is closed. It's heavy facing.

N

Marcus street, but then you turn the corner and they've covered it with fire escapes and ladders.

N

And all sorts of things and then you still have the terra cotta details on the top, but the flowers.

N

Are now open and you have the skylight so the building as you turn, the corner goes from kind of.

N

Solid and dark to open and light as you're turning the corner. At the same time, we're under the.

N

Careful watch of the clock, tire and the steeple, so it just seems that there's a lot going on here.

N

With um how the building faces market square versus the smaller high street between the.

N

um The open and close the light and dark the uh the iconic clock tower and the bells and.

N

How does how does this all tie into what might become an addition that that tells that story.

N

um That's pretty much all we have, so we have a bunch of images. uh This is one.

N

Of my favorite ones, this is the lamppost on high street, with the fire escapes in the back.

N

And it's reflecting the clock tower so and and most people don't notice this when they walk.

N

By but there's all sorts of little signs in the shadows and the reflections of the windows that.

N

Give a cue to like a landmark, that's beyond like, like you might not realize that steeple's there.

N

But subconsciously you've seen this and you know that steeple's coming and you want to go around.

N

The corner, you don't know why, but you know, there's something there. So that's kind of the.

N

Magic of discovering portsmouth is turning these corners and having these secret hidden keys and.

N

We want to play on that and make it really fun and invite people to come here and activate the space.

N

Okay, looking forward to your feedback, okay,.

B

A couple of things: if you don't mind, let's start right in.

B

There's a wacky window in the three-story wooden addition that was once there in the.

B

Late 1800s on the third floor of that yeah, so this is like a maybe. This is a cry for for, for.

B

Lighting, I was hoping you might know what that was yeah. I wish I did. um I can't even make anything.

B

Up and I'm usually good at that um two questions- uh one, it seems like that that little italianate.

B

Theater building, uh it seems like you're going to cramp yourself by trying to connect to that.

B

How do you handle, I mean? How do you envision yeah happening, that you know that corner that building.

N

um There you, I believe there used to be a little alleyway right back there before the dolphin hotel.

N

And you can sort of see it uh here, I guess sure so and- and you can just tell by looking at the way.

N

Those coin blocks turn the corner that that corner was a freestanding corner. So whatever connects.

N

There, I would imagine it needs to be pushed back and recedes that you perceive that break next.

B

Question, which is a similar question, but around the side there's a I'm going to prob. I prepared.

B

Me for failing at this thing, but the next building that you don't own down. The block is a one-story.

B

Building that looks like a two-story building. What are you going to do with the roof of that.

N

Yeah we get bagels there these days, um that used to be that burned down. That's not how it was there.

N

Are older pictures that are different, okay, but how it is now it's a once. I mean it's virtually.

N

A one-story roof, I'm glad you mentioned that because um there's a real imbalance to that.

N

Street front well, preston's is not there anymore, but um even this one congress to three congress.

N

Where you have this really like elaborate, um look at me kind of roof on one congress and then poor.

N

Little three congress: it's just this flat thing and you have this giant firewall. It's like it.

N

Looks like something came down um at some point, because why would they build this giant firewall.

N

So um we'd like to consider maybe um trying to balance that with perhaps a dormer or something.

N

Some feature on the roof of one congress to help tie that together, three clients, three congress.

S

Yeah, because all you cm3 congress is just an asphalt shingle.

S

Sloped roof and then that big firewall to the one congress and it's like something's missing there.

N

Another great one of the high street.

N

uh Yeah there are some pictures and of the two well that one has it pretty much.

C

Other questions comments um rich. Yes, thank you. um My only worries here, I'm conceiving and I'm.

F

Very familiar, obviously with um haven court uh somebody, my friends, used to get to gillies and.

F

But putting up a big building next to that parking garage that could that's going to.

F

Be a very dark alleyway. um You know, I mean right now, it's obviously it's blocked off. It's not used.

F

You know I mean it's only the young kids that jump over those barriers and actually use it. um My only.

F

Fear was that that would be become because one side of it's already a parking garage. You know.

F

What I mean, which isn't be the most attractive place to hang out late at night or something but.

F

Then we'd be creating this very auspicious area in the middle town. You know very, very dark, very.

F

You know unfriendly alleyway kind of thing, that's what I wouldn't want to you know like I. I love.

F

Like commerciality, you know, there's lots of we've done it nicely a lot of areas of town where there.

F

Are small alleyways we make it attractive, we make it inviting you know, I mean, keep it well lit and.

F

That kind of thing, um that's exactly what we would look to be doing uh here is using. It would.

N

Be landscaped and hardscaped extensively with a lot of plantings and sculptures, and there would be.

N

Overhead lighting uh and well illuminated we're holding back off of the face of the garage by.

N

About um 12 15 15 feet 20 feet 20 feet. Wait, don't quote me on that. I have it. I said ten foot, one.

F

Ten feet from the center line of the alley right and the center line of the alley is like ten feet.

N

From the garage, so I think the overall is like nineteen or twenty yeah, it's closer to twenty than.

S

10., it's certainly a lot bigger than commercial alley, yeah yeah and- and it's really important.

S

The catenary lights, like we're doing through brick market, where there's this uniform lighting.

S

You know that uniform lighting is really important to feel safe. The the point lighting like.

S

That we're doing in downtown that the street lights- that's not as effective as.

S

As uniform lighting like you'd, see in places in europe in paris- and you know, the streets are.

S

Well lit, you know: they're light string between buildings, um so that catenary light approach is.

S

Is what we'll be proposing to well light that that area and the stakeholders that all have to you.

S

Know agree to attach, because you know we'd want to attach to the parking garage to our building.

S

To the jj newberry building, you know and string them like we've done in brick market and if you've.

S

Gone downtown if you've gone downtown to see the uniform lighting that is done between tuscana the.

S

First part of brick market at night. um That would be a good example of what we would be proposing.

S

For lighting down there, because you're right, you don't you don't want to set the stage for it to be.

S

A place that you know it's dark and yeah yeah. We just don't do that anyhow. Is there space between.

F

Newberries and the addition the proposed edition, because right now, I'm seeing it just ten feet.

S

Right, quick, yeah, ten we're staying ten feet away from newbury yep yeah any.

C

Reflections or comments on the massing that we're seeing right now.

D

Can I speak about that? Please uh is there okay dan sure go ahead, john, oh, okay: um the the height.

D

uh It doesn't seem to bother me because of the existing one market streak. I would like to see.

D

It pull back a bit from high street. The in other words not have that height go four stories right.

D

There on the street, um but in general I think the massing is appropriate for the lot um by looking.

D

At the edition footprint the renovation footprint, I have trouble whether or not they're going to add.

D

A story, for instance, to the former jarvis building, which I believe is number three, I'm not sure.

D

I would hope not. I would hope that this addition be away from congress street and concerning.

D

Haven court, I certainly you know think that mr mcnabb has done a good job and will continue to.

D

Light even court- and I would just remind everybody right now, as you can't even go down there now, it's.

D

Just dangerous it it's blocked off, and uh so the whatever he does is certainly.

D

Going to be an improvement eventually, but that that's my idea on the massing.

D

At this point, thank you, john dan. Thank you. I feel the same way on the massing when you look at it.

F

From the east side of high street, but it really stands out- worries me when you get that view of.

F

The massing from conga street and again that's it, because that tiny little building is between.

D

I guess where the works is it works. So I just want to point out that the.

N

The section elevation of the massing- this is an abstract diagram. It's in 2d.

N

And the addition is way far back and back at the front buildings, so you would.

N

Never ever see that from real life, because in perspective the front buildings will block it.

I

Unless you're up on the steeple, unless you're up on top of the steeple right, in which case you're.

B

Going to have the backdrop of a five-story right directly behind it, which is about the most boring.

B

Thing in town, martin um yeah, I think the messing works, but I always look at these.

G

Messing things and just think: well, it could be awful. It could be great, so.

G

We'll see, I think, some real great opportunities to to make some urban spaces that are.

G

Currently languishing, I think, lad street is coming around to be a really beautiful little street and.

G

Hopefully the haven court will be similar. I guess the big question is: are you how how much.

G

Are you getting into the renovated footprint areas? Are you going to be gutting? Those buildings are.

G

You going to be because you're building on top of what you're talking about the old opera house.

G

So yeah I mean this: this building carves out the non-historic add-on garbage behind.

S

The historic buildings to come in to get a new core, because that's how we.

S

Get rid of fire escapes, you know the the old buildings need an elevator and stair towers.

S

So this adaptive reuse to those by bringing that in solves those problems for the front.

S

Buildings and allows us to drop fire escapes and and bring those up. um I mean the.

S

So that's why they would come in, um even though the new building will relieve the opera.

S

House, because we want to read the coins in the corner, so it's going to it's going to step back.

S

And we'll step back from the curved brow at the top it'll be back there though, but it's gonna.

S

You know because it needs to connect to those give us some breathing room, but if we're gonna.

S

Give a breathing room yeah: okay, we need it, we need to make it one building for uh two means.

S

Of egress: that's why we're staying 10 feet away from newberry, so we can get an exit out. The back.

S

As one of our means for our separation that we need and then the other one would be the.

S

Opera house would be the the branding of the main entrance for this whole building.

S

Because it it's calling for that, it's it's this grand um it could be really fun.

S

Did that answer your question, I I think it's I I'm all for density. I think lad commercial alley.

G

Haven court have all that really intense density. You know path to relationship with the building. I.

G

Go for it, I I think that makes for a historic town. I love it. It'll clearly be a lot more relief than.

S

The pierce block, which is which is you, know right across from it, that's a lot more massive. It's a.

S

It's a wall that goes all the way up. This will have relief with the opera house and the historic.

S

Buildings break up that that doesn't have that same linear four-story wall that pierce buck has.

C

Reagan, did I hear you yep, sorry not to be there? um I have a quick. I have a question.

E

Well, first of all, I just want to thank you. These are a couple of the most beautiful buildings in.

E

Our downtown, so I'm really excited to see how the restoration comes along and what you kind.

E

Of what you can find and design to really bring them back um to their sort of original glory.

E

If you could go so on 0.2, I just have a question question about this. With the back buildings.

E

That um I'm, assuming that we are, are just going to be demolished so.

E

The top right photo on 0.2 shows all of those sort of one slash short, two-story portions. So do you.

E

You own all the way up to that two and a half story: gabled building on the right. This one.

S

Yeah we we only it that and we own that as well yeah, we own all the stuff, that's yellow.

S

So the all those add-ons, the yellowish colors that have been added on it's the.

S

Kitchen and the one story, just glue-ons to the the historic buildings on congress street would.

S

Come down um you know in favor of the new building coming into to mirror up to the historic ones, to.

S

Provide stair towers and elevator yeah. Okay, I'm just curious to know a little bit more.

E

Of the history of those just when they were added on, I mean just just for our due diligence of.

E

Understanding the site and how it grew and tracy, maybe you already have all this information.

E

So I would just like to know that and have that added to the history at some point, so that.

E

And ask obviously for the before any demolition there'd be some proper documentation.

N

Absolutely yeah, it's it's really, it's you can tell inside it's, even it's even new framing. You know it.

S

Says spf regular two by six: it's just really garbage the uh that yellow uh part, um but we.

S

Will be gladly to provide that documentation, but it's that material is all built on this site. The.

B

Footprint of the destroyed hotel, I think this was in the alley between the hotel and yeah the.

N

Existing buildings, the hotel appeared to be pretty much the entire asphalt surface of the parking lot.

N

Okay, it was actually u-shaped building karen did you have yeah? I I just want to say that this is a.

E

Wonderful property and I'm I'm very pleased to see how sensitive you are to the old buildings.

L

um And I'm I'm hopeful that that what you're going to bring in is is going to be equally wonderful.

L

um I don't have a problem with the massing, especially given the location of it.

L

Up against the parking garage um yeah, the idea of getting rid of those hideous.

F

Fire escapes is just wonderful, can't wait. Thank you. Okay. Any other comments from the commission.

C

Before we address the public, anybody from the public wishing to speak on this presentation.

C

Anybody online.

C

Okay, so I think you've got pretty much support for the massing a little bit of concern on the.

C

Height on high street, you know that first facade very excited about the renovation ideas. I really.

C

Hope you can find some detail on the street level for all three of those buildings and and bring.

C

Them back, um and at this point you would like a motion to continue until next month. Yes, please.

C

Thank you david great. Thank you. Thank you, second, that please thank you and all in favor.

C

And our people on the phone. Thank you, okay. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank.

F

You thank you all right. Do we need a break or we can do the last one. Just do it. Okay,.

N

C

Located at 445 marshy street, wherein permission is requested to allow the construction of a new.

C

Single-Family residence with attached garage as for plans on file in the planning department.

C

Said property is shown on assessor mach 101 as lot 3 and lies within the general.

C

Residence b and historic districts- oh my gosh and she's: okay, I'm back.

C

Yes, if you'd like to introduce yourselves and uh but before you do that I'd like to just say first.

C

I'm very pleased to see that you're, starting at the beginning and starting with our first steps in.

C

Terms of massing and not delving too too much into the details just yet. We really do appreciate that.

C

All right, tracy take it away: tracy kozak, our crew of architects, I'm here with the applicants, jim.

N

And gail sanders hello hi all right. um Well, this is a proposal to subdivide the parcel.

N

At 445 marcy, which is famously known for the candy shop, that's on it. uh It's been vacant aside from.

N

The tiny candy shop for- oh, I don't know 50 years or so I think I'll. Let jim maybe tell the story.

N

uh His family's legacy of this whole neighborhood and how that candy shop came to be.

G

To the to the okay, to the best of my knowledge, um the property was purchased by ashley jones.

S

Back in the early 50s, for, I believe, back taxes from whatever, like the most told anyways and.

S

As far as the candy store itself was put on the building put on on the property by mr jones, back.

S

In the 50s for his his hobbies or whatever um I purchased it back in 1995 94, I believe.

S

And it's been just uh I've kept it for whatever reason. So that's pretty much the history of the.

S

Of the property, when I initially bought the property um there was a there was I from the.

S

Research that my attorney did, I believe there were five property five buildings on that property over.

S

Time and they've all you know, gone away over over the time. So um that's pretty much the history that.

S

I have of that problem and you'll see from the old maps that are in the packet that we'll go through.

N

That there used to be various houses, it had the same density as the rest of the neighborhood.

N

Originally, and as things deteriorated and fell down those just weren't rebuilt or maintained.

N

uh Okay, so this is the um area maps it's uh well, one of the main distinguishing features.

N

Of this property, and one that drives most of the design, is that it's in a severe flood zone.

N

uh Partridge street, as many of you might know, is one of the lowest points in the city and when.

N

We have the king, tides and the flood tides parched street is underwater by a good foot or so, as is.

N

The um southeast corner of this property, it's on a slope, so the northwest corner by prey and marcy.

N

Is quite a bit higher six feet higher, so we need to um we're. We need to locate this new structure.

N

On the high ground, we are subject to the new and stricter flood plain construction requirements.

N

uh We have cannot have a solid basement anymore, the water has to flow through, and we want to.

N

Make sure that this building is resilient, going back to your discussions earlier this evening, a.

N

New construction in a tidal zone like this, we have to make sure it's it's going to last and.

N

Also, we hope that this could be an opportunity to inspire other homes in the areas to find ways to.

N

Weather the storm, I think this neighborhood on the on the portsmouth flood emergency plan.

N

This neighborhood is the um you know, evacuate neighborhood, but it doesn't have to be that way.

N

There are ways to build to accommodate rising sea levels and climate change and we're going.

N

To do that, we hope to do that here we are looking to make a super energy efficient.

N

Building potentially passive house net zero and one that can withstand the rising tides.

N

That is a driver of how we have oriented the roof ridges so that we can hopefully.

N

At least have it be able to accommodate solar at some point to reduce the impact on the environment.

N

The whole reason we're having these challenges is environmental impact. 0.2 is the lot itself.

N

Looking in at the lot from the surrounding streets, it's a um a third of an acre. Yes, third of an acre.

N

Mostly clear six, a six foot slope, it is um so currently it's bordered on by.

N

Streets on three sides: marcy street praise street and partridge. As I mentioned.

N

We're looking to subdivide it parallel to marcy street, so the candy shop.

N

uh Would be on its own lot on marcy street, so the candy shop is not part of this application.

N

Assuming we get this subdivision, that will be um a different property, we're going to.

N

Propose this new structure on the parcel behind it, the newly created parcel behind it.

N

Page 0.3 are the surrounding houses. It's really fun to look at the variety around here.

N

And there's clearly been some evolution in this neighborhood. Not only do we have a basically.

N

Vacant third acre lot in the middle of the south end, which is unusual. uh It's surrounded.

N

By a variety of uh buildings um built at different times, uh starting on the top left, we have the two.

N

Two larger structures in the area right across the street on prey street there's a kind of queen anne.

N

Fairly ornate two and a half story structure to the left of that is the one at the corner.

N

Of salter and marcy, similar massing and and size, uh as you turn down praise street, that building.

N

On the corner of marcy and pray, has uh this very prominent gable, top floor third story and and the.

N

uh Kind of box angled box bay that sticks out on the bottom. It has a little tower and some porches.

N

And the middle row of structure of photos is a variety you have.

N

Some 18th century clapboard homes on prey street as you get towards the water.

N

Partridge street, you begin to have kind of the gableland new englanders um that are oriented a.

N

Little differently, a lot of these buildings have porches. Some of them have roof decks.

N

uh The the gable end structures, you'll notice, all have the entrance to the side.

N

uh On the on the bottom left, I had to throw in the fish market because.

N

um The fish market and the lobster pound, of course, are kind of the two anchors between.

N

This family's activities and presence they have family members in the area and the forms on these.

N

Fishing buildings are, I think, key to telling the story of their new. This will be their new home.

N

They're going to live here, they're not going to sell it, and their life is of course, as you know,.

N

Centered around the fishing and lobster industry. And if you look at the forms of the buildings.

N

That are defining the lobster, the lobster shacks and the fishing buildings of portsmouth they're.

N

They're simple, but they're a little quirky. You have the the asymmetrical salt box of the.

N

Lobster pound you have that kind of low wraparound porsche on the fish market. You see some of that.

N

All over the neighborhood but and the shingles of course, there's just a lot of different things.

N

That are going around this huge site and in our design, we're going to try to talk to some of those.

N

The next page, 0.4 are the historic vote. Well, the historic photo map on the upper left.

N

And you know this is from 1877 and a lot had changed by then from the 1700s. I was not able.

N

To find anything legible, that's earlier than 1877, but there are some remnants of stone foundations.

N

On the east east northeast corner of the lot, I don't know that anything was ever built in that.

N

Low area on parcher street this photo on the upper right is partridge street and that's from the 40s.

N

um It floods now, but it's been flooding for a long time and I I don't.

N

Know that anything was built in that corner and in fact I think people really think.

S

We used to go ice skating there in the winter, so um yeah. It's just been a lot of evolution on this.

N

Property, um the next page, uh there's a couple pages, are the footprint and the roof plan and.

N

We've designed it so that we can have a drive-through passage from praise.

N

Street to partridge street and orienting it so that we can take advantage of the sun angles.

N

And primarily um wanting to open up this building kind of visually to the lawn in the back. They also.

N

The family owns the house next to it, so they kind of want this connection.

N

To the back, which is why there's a porch on the back? Also, you don't see it from marcy street, so.

N

Much and it's more solid and reserved facing the public streets, which is more in keeping with the.

N

More austere feel of marcy street and some of the houses on prey. There is a parking garage. uh It.

N

Faces partridge street, but it's set way back from partridge street. Again, that's the flood zone.

N

And this a1 is the roof plan. There are two primary ridges and it is angled because.

N

Of the jog and the site to the left, we need to provide access through to parcher street.

N

The next pages, uh just kind of show you the plans for the reasoning of how.

N

That angle is accommodated.

N

And a3 are the street sections and again these are two-dimensional. So.

N

They're a little bit abstract, you won't see this in real life, but it does give.

N

A baseline to measure the roof heights of the surrounding buildings.

N

Basically, the houses to the north, like on salter street, are a little bigger and the houses to the.

N

South holmes, court walden are a little smaller and this is kind of in the middle and.

N

And then the last page we're starting to look a little bit more at form, but he's not detailed.

N

Yet and there's a lot to go, but we do have the features that I mentioned on the surrounding.

N

Buildings elevation one on the top left, is kind of the front. It's a gable end approach with a side.

N

Entry porch, it has the box bay on the bottom and then on the top that prominent gable. That we saw.

N

On the corner of marcy and praise street, um there is a uh on the back uh facing the water side. We.

N

Have a two-story uh added on it kind of looks like a two-story sunroom edition. I think there.

N

Are a few examples of that in portsmouth on the south end, thinking of the one on hancock and marcy.

N

But we do have a little balcony up there, and so this is intended kind of as the captain's.

N

Watch so that jim can watch his fleet he's moving away from the water where he is now and, of course,.

N

There's still a very, very strong connection to the sea that this family has and being able to.

N

See the lobster pound and their family operations is is really important to not lose that connection.

N

To the water visually and so there's little overlook on the back of the property there.

N

The west elevation number two has a lower eve line at one story, and this responds to the.

N

House directly across the street, which is one of the older houses in portsmouth. It's a one.

N

Story, cape and they added a porch onto it at some point, so the porch is not original, but.

N

It's been there a long long time and it's one of the more. I guess unique buildings.

N

On marquee street, because it's so small, uh let's see which one is that that is on page zero point.

N

And it's the picture on the bottom right. 13 marty.

C

Photo number garage sitting right in front of it. There is a garage scenery in front of it. We're.

N

Not going to do that, but just uh the idea of is keeping the scale uh kind of low and human.

N

uh Responding uh directly across from that little low in human skilled house, that would also be the.

C

Side that backs up to the little candy shop. Yes, it is yep um and then, as I mentioned, the.

N

The back of the property facing the east, the water side, there's there's a fence there now.

N

At the budding property there would be a porch that would be their backyard.

N

Not a lot of visibility from the street. The way it's tucked back from partridge there'll be.

N

Landscaping, probably some new fences uh and that oh and there's another page, I almost forgot the.

N

Color pages um yeah: this is just some 3d views to try to give you a sense of the house in this.

N

Context, uh various angles, and the very last page are the bird size axon electrics and perspectives.

N

This uh this is the city model, the 3d city model, showing how this building relates to.

N

Those around it, it's not the smallest one, it's not the biggest one. As I mentioned, the.

N

Larger buildings in the north, the salter, the house, the captain, titus alter house and the.

N

Two queen ends on marcy street there's a fairly large salt box built on salter street 20 years ago.

N

So there's a variety and we tried to break it up the massing to have the smaller pieces.

N

Facing south towards the smaller houses and the larger chunk facing north so.

C

I'm gonna let john or reagan start off um I'd like to start because of comments about 454.

D

Marcy street directly across the street, which was the first home that I ever owned in 1972.

D

And um that that garage I saved it, it was actually a foot higher than it is now and it was leaning.

D

Horribly- and that was my first experience with jacking and come alongs and all of that stuff.

D

And taking uh neither here nor there, but I just thought somebody might be interested in.

D

In that I own that up until 76. um I, I guess um my first question um would be I'll just give like.

D

Three questions: the first question is: how does this water running through what would normally.

D

Be a foundation: how does that work? I don't see anything that relates to that down here in florida.

D

When they bump into this situation, the house are up on posts and um certainly don't hope that.

D

You're doing that and then question number two is that front lot with the candy shop that becomes.

D

More important, so I'm wondering if that is meant to be developed with another building. Hopefully.

D

Respecting more of the history of marsy street, and with that in mind, I just wanted to make the.

D

Comment that, in my opinion, the marcy street side of this uh building is is the weakest.

D

Side, I understand why you brought it down to essentially pay homage to little 454 marcy, but.

D

It really does need a house in front of it, and is that is that the idea and that's it for me. Thank.

D

You, um yes, so the front parcel of the candy shop would be sold, presumably, and uh it is developable.

N

By wright, so the thought it's expected that there's probably going to be a house built there.

N

There would be a fence, a privacy fence, so you really want to get a clear view this. This is.

N

The side of the house- it's not meant to be the front of the house, it's meant to look like the.

N

Side of the house, it's going to be behind a fence in another house. The front of the house faces.

N

Praise street: that's what I was wondering yeah um and just one other question.

D

Why does the? Why does the driveway have to go from one street to the other.

N

um Well, jim plows, his own driveway, it just makes it it makes sense yeah to us to so just to go.

S

From one street, to the other, rather than just to make everything, work is our reason for that.

S

It actually allows us to have a smaller asphalt footprint, so you don't have that space to turn a.

N

Car around and do the three-point turn you just have a narrow pass-through. The other important.

N

Thing I should mention that influences. That drive-through is that this is an age-in-place.

N

House, this is where they want to live their days out and when the time comes, when they.

N

Cannot do stairs and steps it needs to be handicapped accessible. So this central entrance.

N

On the side facing marcy would be level with grade and you can see we're raising up the grade.

N

There, but at um because we have to keep the floor above flood plain. If you look at where the.

N

House meets the street on prey street. It's it's about three or four feet higher than the street.

N

And we have to do that for flood reasons. That's not handicapped accessible. We don't want to have.

N

A big giant ramp with railings on the front of the house, so the accessible entrance is on.

N

The side that kind of mandates being able to have access through the side of the property.

C

Reagan, did you have any questions? Yes, I do. um I. There are a lot of.

E

Things about this um plan that I really appreciate, one of them being putting the uh the garage in the.

E

Back and tucked away sort of out of sight, whereas I see many new construction houses going up where.

E

Their garage is right there front and center, um and so I really appreciate that part of it.

E

In the way that you have placed and cited the building on a lot, so I think that's very good.

E

um And and the the massing it's it's big, but I think that um I'm willing to see it through with.

E

Some of the developing of the design that you have the only thing that really sticks.

E

Out, for me, is that you have the facade that you have um on praise street doesn't really have an.

E

Entrance, it doesn't have a front door um and that's something that you do see in all of the.

E

Examples that you've showed at least of the bigger houses. There are some houses that are there, that.

E

Are turned perpendicular to the street, so their their entrances are sort of on the side and.

E

Accessed through these little a little porch like this, but this is not one of those houses.

E

And so I think what's really missing is it? Is a nice formal front entrance, especially since you.

E

Have it right on right, fronting the street, um so I I I'm curious as to why you've kind of hidden.

E

The front entrance and I'd also like to encourage you to make a better um front formal grand looking.

E

Visible entrance abs, absolutely so that um cue is taken off of. If you look at page zero. Three.

N

The top left drawing this is the house on the corner of marcy and salter. That has the.

N

Gable end facing marcy street the front door is under a little porch to the side of that gable.

N

So this is the same idea with the front door to this proposed house is a little porch to the side.

N

The drawing I guess on the cover page on the very cover page there's a rendering on the top left.

N

That shows that corner porch and we're doing a wrap around steps to accentuate that there's also.

N

A little bit of a recess window window seat almost in that to create a feature element to draw the.

N

Eye to that porch and a lot of porches have a bench or some chairs. This is a place where people.

N

Could sit on the front porch and watch people go by it's a spot for amazon to leave their boxes.

N

But but mainly it's a welcoming feature, it's a symbol of welcome and to draw people into this.

N

Porch to signify that it is the entrance, um there are some others, other things.

N

Yeah there's some other examples beside porches on page 0.3 as well on partridge street uh picture.

N

Number five, the middle one on the left is a gable end house uh with a porch on the side. That's their.

N

Entrance and then um the one I I really love is the ball. That's the one I was thinking of that.

E

Really is just it's turned: the house has turned perpendicular to the street, so.

E

Of course, its entrance is kind of hidden. You know you have to access it through the side. Yep.

E

Sorry I'll, let you finish but good yeah! No, that that's all we're just.

N

um I guess I would like to just see that that interest, if you, if you're.

E

Determined to hide it on the corner there I'd like to see it, celebrate it a bit more and just make it.

E

A an obvious front entrance, rather than just sort of a hidden little corner. Okay,.

C

Other moments or questions dave. Thank you, um I'm a little. I I I know that your your storyline is.

B

You're dodging the offset in the lot with the driveway and that's what's causing you.

B

To angle the garage, but you have to admit that most of the buildings in the neighborhood are.

B

Relatively rectilinear, in their form, not only the buildings themselves, but their pertinences.

B

This this has because of the, I guess, need for a drive through the property.

B

Has kicked this garage so that it has to to have it land where you want it to? It, has to.

B

Start someplace further to the right as much as that bothers me, and I think it's inappropriate.

B

The what the contortions that happened, then to the rest of the back of the house, seem uh avoidable.

B

And and I the the contortion of the roof line, the and the the sidewall, it seems like you're you're.

B

Losing the whole orientation of the back of the building, because you're following this garage.

B

Which makes me wonder if tipping the garage is such a good idea again. Most of the buildings.

B

In this neighborhood, if, if not all all that I saw actually are relatively rectilinear, I mean.

B

In as much as we are going to judge mr wyckoff as to how well he arranged his garage to his.

B

Property earlier but but we assume he tried to pull it back into some sort of plane.

B

The other thing that uh I like reagan, I I find myself wanting to see a front door uh wanting.

B

To see more it it's not uncommon, and, and I'm not saying that every house is built this way.

B

But it's not uncommon during this period to devote one corner of the house. uh We just reviewed one.

B

uh Recently, on maplewood avenue, where they they the door, wasn't.

B

Smack dab in the middle like a georgian house, which just makes me comfortable, as you can imagine,.

B

But but it was relatively obvious on the front of the house. It was in that quarter, sort of a third.

B

Program, but it still was on the front facade of the building and it regularizes the idea of.

B

The little kid with the halloween bucket looking for the door to knock on.

B

And I know that that's not exactly how architecture is taught, but it's it's.

B

How people live anyway? My two comments: uh they're both kind of jarring to me.

B

Okay, yeah yeah. We can definitely look at uh making that uh entrance uh porch sequence more prominent.

N

um I will say the crank on the roof. I I think it does a lot for the building and I would recommend.

N

We do it even if we didn't have to, because what it allows us to do is to open up the building.

N

Towards the back and get more light in in it, it just does that subtle little angle to the.

N

Roof where it begins to bring more light into the back where the living spaces are, whereas you're.

N

You're more closed and austere and in private, facing the public streets in more traditional.

N

uh In the back, where you're hidden from view and it's it's the private space, you begin to get more.

N

Light there's more of a relationship to the water which is key to this program as well. So it does.

N

A lot of wonderful things for the space inside the building and the way they use the yard and.

N

I don't know that it's terribly visible from the street, it is visible when you look at it.

N

From above on a roof plan, but uh yeah, it seems to work. I have a comment to make as well.

T

I probably don't need a mic. You can hear me if I look at the the north elevation.

F

uh That elevation to me looks asymmetrical, even though it appears to be symmetrical.

J

But if you look at, for instance, the vertical windows to the left, compare the wall dimension.

T

From the corner to the window and compare that to the right side, you will see the difference.

T

So that bothers me a little bit, it's very um the illusion is there that it is symmetrical, but.

F

In fact, it isn't you're right, you're, absolutely right. That should be symmetrical, we'll fix that.

G

Martin, I think our question is.

G

As a board does this fit? Is this acceptable in our historic district? It's a new house.

G

It is acceptable in the district. I I like it, I don't change the quirks and it.

G

I I think I like the fact that it's not uh that it has its own set of roles, that it.

G

Makes one uh it challenges some of uh the surrounding architecture. I I think that.

G

There's a lot of nice qualities about the fact that it's it's a little crooked. It's a little.

G

It's got some angles and things to it that you wouldn't typically see.

G

I think it's terrific and, as for the entrance that doesn't bother me because.

G

Marshy street has such a strong facade that supports marcy street. um You know I don't.

G

I don't have a problem that the door is not like smack dab right in your face.

G

um You know because, because you it does offer, it does offer itself to marshy street and, and so.

G

I don't have a problem with some of the rules changing. This is a modern house in 2022.

G

You know, I think, I think it's acceptable for the historic district.

C

Another okay, rich. I also agree with martin. I think it's. I think it fits well down there. I grew up in this.

F

Neighborhood my um grew up with your neighbor. Then mclaughlin's. There right next door and sanders.

F

But yeah- and I know you know what I mean I know I grew up with her point of view. You know living.

F

There being so protective in the candy shop and the, um but I think it I think it does fit.

C

All right, so um I just had two or three comments and then we'll open it to the public. um So.

C

I had some of the same reaction to the front facade, which is actually on praise street.

C

Which leads me to the? Are you sure you want 445 to be your address? Marcy street yeah people are.

C

Going to lose you, no, I don't know that will change when the property is subdivided absolutely so I.

N

Think I think I think the problem you're running into with the gable end on on prey street and and.

C

The relation to the entrance is this uh protruding bay window. um I think that if the facade were flat.

C

The doorway on the porch side would read more prominently. This to me looks like a side facade.

C

It's often you put yes, there are bay windows in the on the front. But to me this reads as a.

C

Side, facade versus a front facade and, I think, being not being an architect. I think that's.

C

What's causing the problem I'll just leave you with that thought. The other was. Where did I put it.

C

C

uh Almost there uh-huh the captain's walk section, this rectangular pertinence, that's kind of stuck.

C

On the end, could you re-look at that a little bit? I find that extremely awkward. I love the idea of.

C

You being able to go out- and you know and have your view, but there's just something about that.

C

Square cereal box: that's stuck onto the end of what is otherwise a building with lots.

C

Of non-rectangular forms and now you've got this one odd form off of the edge. So there might be.

C

Something that you could think about with that one: okay: we have somebody online in the public.

C

Who wanted to speak so we'll start there? If nick can let that person in so susan mcdougall? Can you.

A

Can you hear me yes, okay, I think I've unmuted. Is that right, you're good? Can you hear me yes,.

R

Great um I'm very, I wanted to start with, I'm very excited to know that jim and gail.

R

Are planning to build a house in our neighborhood? um I live at 39 praise street, so I look out over.

R

um A property his mother owns and this property, which has up to now been undeveloped. I completely.

R

Understand that um this I have always understood that this was a developable.

R

um Lot that it could be two lots- and I just wanted to.

R

Bring up, I wanted to say that and to bring up some um questions. I one of your commissioners mentioned.

R

uh Brought up the fact some question about the address and clearly the address is a prey.

R

Street address and all of the comps or all of the designers, architects, renderings and.

R

And their um her um her, her um comparisons have been with salt with been either a big.

R

The cotton, how I call the cotton house on salter or, um and I'm sure, there's another name for it.

R

The and the two big victorians that are um a one on salter one on marcy, but this is not a marcy.

R

Street property, it's a prey street property and none of the um height and relational.

R

Architectural comparisons have been done with any of the 1800s, um including mine,.

R

Houses that line cray street and partridge street, so I have some concerns about the scale of this.

R

um Of this property that is going to be directly across from the 1800s colonial.

R

Sorry center chimney whatever and diagonally across from mine.

R

And how that and how close it is to praise street. I have some concerns about the drive-through.

R

Aspect of this, which wasn't really isn't really clear or defined, um I have to say from prey.

R

Street I'm happy the garage is on partridge street, um but the um my major concern is that.

R

The renderings seem to have taken details from the victorian at the corner of marcy and pray.

R

And used as a quote entrance um detail, what is really a side entrance for the victorian.

R

At the corner of marcy and pray and not their front entrance, so um I also know that we're.

R

Going to see a tree go down, of course, there's a very big beautiful tree here that is shown.

R

In the in the designs in some places, but it's not going to be there so there's going to be some.

R

This this is going to be a very, very big building right in a place where there aren't really very.

R

Big buildings and then it what will happen in front of it. um So I guess I would say that in.

R

Terms of scale, if there was a scale issue, this belonged in the front of mars on marcy street, not.

R

Not in the back lot between one between the front lot and what's going on so that my.

R

Biggest issue is scale and then the drive through, of course, as a resident of prey.

R

um We now see prey as a dead end and partridge is a dead end, so I am concerned about.

R

The what's going to happen with these two lots. I know they're they're if they have the frontage.

R

80 feet of frontage, um that's okay, but I I also um I I have been. I have a lot that goes.

R

From prey to psalter, but I've been told a number of times that I can't have two- um I can't have two.

R

Frontages, I can't have an entrance and psalter and I can't have an entrance on prey. So I'd like some.

R

Clarification about that um is it possible really is it? Is it planning wise to have an entrance.

R

From prey, I mean actually drive through entrance from prey to part two partridge when it's not.

R

Possible for me to have an entrance from prey to salter, um so those are a number of my issues.

R

uh Scale the drive through I do have a concern about the cereal box that will that I'll look at.

R

um I don't I design-wise it, I mean this is just design-wise. I don't think it fits.

R

I do miss the front entrance. Every other house on partridge and on prey has a front door.

R

That's clear and defined, and this I'm I'm sure, you're following the.

R

The code for setbacks, so this happens to be fairly close to prey, which means that, in its height.

R

It will shed a phenomenal shadow, a and- and I'm just wanting, I'm just wanting the scale to be.

R

Consistent with what's happening on cartridge and prey, because that's the location of this building.

R

So that's it. Those are. Those are my major concerns, um but I am happy that um that gail and jim want.

R

To build a house in the neighborhood, that's a good thing. Thank you very much for your time.

C

Thanks anybody else from the public mark middenberg. Yes, can you hear me? Yes,.

T

Hi, can you hear me? Okay? Yes, yes, yes, sorry yeah. So this is the first time that we're seeing the.

T

uh The drawings- and I guess I had oh sorry, I'm mark I didn't introduce myself, I'm mark windenberg.

T

My wife, nancy and I live in 437 marcy, which is, I can see, has been used as.

T

Some inspiration for the design, uh so we also will look directly at the.

T

At the house- and we we also look directly at the uh the candy store. um So I I guess I had.

T

Two procedures, one's a procedural question, which is that um is the after this meeting. Is there.

T

Are there will there be additional opportunities to comment, or is this really the one? uh The one.

T

Opportunity, given that none of us have really seen this before now, uh there will be additional.

C

Opportunities for comment, because I believe the applicant will come for at least another session.

T

Okay yeah. We appreciate that um and I just I had one question about.

T

What the square footage of the building is, that's probably not, and it's probably not a historic.

T

Commission concern, um but I'm just curious about how big this actually is. Do you have a sense for.

N

We haven't finalized the numbers yet, okay, I the reason I I'm asking. The question: is that.

T

If you uh you know, 437 marcy is only 2 800 square feet. It's a it's. A pretty narrow and I'd say.

T

Graceful uh 1890s, queen anne and and so, but in this building it you know, strikes me as being.

T

uh Probably twice as big and again I'm not suggesting that that means that uh the applicants.

T

Are doing anything wrong, but I think for those of us who who live in the neighborhood.

T

Our house is usually viewed as the largest one, and it's actually a pretty it's really not that.

T

Big- and this is, I think, considerably larger and I think that's part of the concern you're hearing.

T

The praise street neighbors are all on this call essentially or looking at it, and, and I.

T

Think when you add to that the fact that I'll say in the case of 437 the historic commission.

T

Has regulated this building so extraordinarily tightly uh through the past four or five owners.

T

To the point in which we can't you know, we can't.

T

I had inspectors coming as I was trying to replace a picket fence uh and treat it very roughly and.

T

You we get, you know, because this is a modern building. It can really pretty much be whatever.

T

uh The applicant wants it to be, and you know the concerns that they, the commission, are.

T

Talking about now, or you know where the door goes, I think for us it's a it's a matter of.

T

Something that's so gigantic, and so seemingly out of scale that it's concerning all of us.

T

uh Again, I'm not suggesting there are grounds for you not to approve it. I don't I'm too new to the.

T

Process to know that, but I think it is alarming. All of us who live in the neighborhood and I.

T

Think you should at least know that, while you may view this as beautiful for all of us, we view it as.

T

Something that's completely out of scale again, I don't know jim, he I'm. I am sure he sounds like.

T

A fine gentleman none of this is personal. None of this is about trying to be on neighborly, but.

T

Seeing it for the first time it's a shock, and, and- and so all I want to just conclude with- is just to.

T

Say that um away, you know, yeah well, you're saying hold on I'll talk, we'll talk about that later.

T

I'm being handed cards, but I think we can talk about another time. The the just. The point is that.

T

We're not trying to be unneighborly at all and we all want to get along. um But it's a lot for us to.

T

Absorb if you look at the colonials and prey, as susan said, um they're of a totally different scale.

T

To this, and even our house, I'm going to venture it's probably half the size and and we're ours is.

T

Viewed as sort of the you know, the grand dom and it's it's nowhere near this kind of building, so.

T

Okay, I'll I'll, let it go there um unless someone has a question for me as a as a neighbor.

N

Tracy I could just respond. um I absolutely appreciate it's. It's always a shock to go.

N

From a third acre vacancy to a building, there's nothing that will make that less abrupt um to have.

T

A smaller building sorry to start to interrupt, but um but if you look at sheet a3, uh it.

N

It simply dimensions this building compared to what's around it.

N

And, as I said before, it's not the largest building and it's not the smallest building.

N

It's we think it fits especially because of its uh distance from the houses around it.

N

And and it doesn't dominate also the last page- has it in three dimensions, which might be easier.

N

To uh compare the context, if you look at sheet a6 as well, yeah yeah, again it it, it appears to.

T

Be about twice the width of 437, so I'm guessing that, it's probably you know 5 000 square feet at.

T

Least- and you know it- it'll be it'll- be twice the size of any it's. I look at it as pretty much the.

T

Size of uh uh you know south we, um our neighbor's house, the other, victorian and ours, put together.

T

But which is again, it may be fine and legal, but it's why we're so shocked.

T

So I'll stop talking, because that you don't want to, I uh I used to back in the day I used.

T

To practice land use and environmental laws, so um I get a little on my high horse, but thank you.

T

Thank you, you know actually I'm being asked about how the water displacement will work.

T

That's one last thing is that it that, as as this, if, if we have flooding, will that displacement.

T

Of water essentially push the water across prey street and uh you know, create an effective.

T

uh You know diverting water back on the rest of the properties I'll I'll uh I'll. If someone.

T

Wants to beat me I'm happy to be muted at this point, so I don't want to be difficult here. We go.

N

There's probably a different venue to talk about water management on the site.

N

Rather than hcc, but we're happy to have those conversations with the civil engineer and.

N

Whatnot, it really doesn't fall under our purview, but mark. We appreciate you raising the concern.

T

Thank you. We appreciate the commission as well again we're all neighbors and citizens.

T

Of the same town, so um none of this is meant in a spirit of other than cooperation and goodwill.

C

Thank you, but we live here. As my wife, just I mean we live here. Thank you. It's not like anybody else.

C

I know okay, uh we have nobody else in zoom and nobody else in the room. So I'm closing the public.

C

Comment session and unless are further comments, I think we could move to continue for next month.

F

Move to continue second, okay, all in favor john and reagan, hi hi, okay, great! Thank you very much.

C

Again and a motion to adjourn anybody in favor all right, okay, thank you very much.