City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 14 Sep 2022

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9.14.2022 Historic District Commission

A

All right, everyone welcome to the september 14.

A

2022 meeting uh the board's actions in these matters have been deemed to be quasi-judicial.

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In nature, if any person believes any member of the board has a conflict of.

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Interest that issue should be raised at this point or it will be deemed waived.

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Okay, so I'm going to introduce my extreme right dan brown good evening and martin ryan, hello, okay,.

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uh Vice chair reagan, rudig, is out tonight and nick crack now is unfortunately having a bad time in.

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Beautiful croatia, so mr steph peter stith from the planning department is taking his place uh city.

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Council member rich blaylock hello good evening, margo doering good evening, david adams, good.

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Evening and karen bouffard, who is a full standing member tonight? Okay, thank you. um Public hearings.

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Petition of james williams, woods and anna rolline menardi owners for property located at one walt.

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Nally, wherein permission is requested to allow new construction of a freestanding, detached garage.

A

As per plans on file in the planning department, said, property is shown on assessor map 103 as lot.

A

27 lies within general residence b and the historic district and who here's to present this.

B

Mr chairman, I'd like to recuse myself as I'm going to direct a butter. Oh certainly have a nice.

A

Seed out there in the in the audience yes uh good evening, uh mark giannini from mchenry architecture.

C

um Let's see so on may 11th, we were here for an htc work session for this project.

C

And on july 19th we were in front of the zoning board to uh where relief was granted for rear and.

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Side, setbacks related to the detached garage that we'll see shortly, starting on the site plan here.

C

You can see in the the red here the smaller red is. I always get the wrong button.

C

All right, the smaller red is the addition to the existing house and the larger red.

C

On the right here is a one car garage, which is what we were getting. The relief for from.

C

The zoning board so overall, the general scope of the project is to restore the existing house.

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Replace materials, siding roofing that are in kind and then the proposed addition that you see here.

C

In red, we're also looking to replace the current grass and stone driveway with a cobblestone.

C

Driveway, that also includes a riverstone strip down the middle and, in addition, we're looking.

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To restore the existing overgrown gardens at this point that are along walton alley and gate street.

C

And we're also, the applicants have been talking to the abutter.

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Regarding removing the 30-foot spruce tree that you see there just in front of the house towards.

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Gate street that's currently growing into both properties and also shading properties,.

C

Go to the next page.

C

So these these images and renderings are basically giving you the overall.

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Scope of what we're looking to do for the um the existing house in the addition.

C

uh Starting at the top we're looking to replace the existing asphalt shingles with.

C

Something that's more in character with the building which would be cedar, shingles, we're.

C

Also, looking to remove there's five skylights, four that you can see in the top left picture.

C

And there's one that's kind of on the top right, that's obscured by the spruce tree, but we're.

C

Looking to remove those five skylights and infill them and again re-roof with the cedar shingles.

C

Other areas will be repairing replacing wood, clapboard siding in kind.

C

To stay in character, and then we're also looking to replace, restore and replace, depending on what.

C

Side of uh of the building we're on uh windows, which I'll get into in more detail as we get.

C

Further in the packet, the bottom image here is a rendering of the rear of the house, which.

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Shows the two-story addition that we're looking we're proposing for the house and then you can.

C

See on the left there, the one-car garage and then existing gardens and patio area that are there now.

C

Excuse me on a4 it's a floor plan of the addition. It's roughly eight by fourteen on the first floor.

C

It's going to house mud room and a half bath. The second floor is going to be a full bath.

C

Next sheet on a5 you'll see the plan and roof floor plan roof plan of the one car garage.

C

There's a man door on the left as well as a couple double hung windows that would be.

C

Matching and in character with the existing house and an overhead wooden garage door in the front.

C

We go to a6, you can see more more in detail the garage door. This would be a custom wood.

C

Door that would be an overhead again: clapboard, siding and corner board trim we'd be trying.

C

To match, what's on the existing house, we're also proposing a light fixture over the door.

C

A7 is the side elevation, so you can see more detail of the windows.

C

There would be a six over six wood window.

C

Again, keeping with the house.

C

Sorry on a8 is south elevation. It's mostly obscured by the existing fence. That's there. That's.

C

Also being proposed to be replaced in kind and then, if you go to a9 you'll, see more renderings.

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From different views again of the rear edition and the garage on the upper left.

C

You can see again the patio and some of the existing gardens.

C

And the garage to the on the upper right is the street view from walton alley. So you can.

C

See more detail the the new cobblestone driveway with the strip down the middle.

C

And the bottom one again is more detail of the rear edition.

C

On a11 is elevations of the window and door types we're coming with you coming to you tonight with.

C

Two different options for window restoration replacement option; one we're looking to.

C

Restore the existing wood windows that are on the gate, street and walden alley facades and then the.

C

Remaining windows are replaced with the green mountain windows that we have in here. The other.

C

The second option would be replacing all windows with with green mountain windows, again keeping.

C

On the bottom right there as store windows, so the existing windows are all single pane.

C

It looks currently aluminum storm windows on the building, we'd be looking to replace.

C

Any storm windows that don't get a new window.

C

That have insulated glazing, we'd be looking to provide new aluminum storm windows.

C

And then again door types, there's the single man door for the garage.

C

And the custom wood garage door.

C

On the last page, we've got our proposed window for.

C

Our I'm sorry light fixture for the garage door as well as the cedar shingles and then.

C

Try and stay in keeping with the existing house, which has a stone foundation.

C

We're proposing a stone veneer for the garage and the addition foundations. The garage has a fairly.

C

Significant slope, it goes down a few feet from front to back, um so there would be about a foot.

C

To foot and a half of the foundation exposed on on the back and also outside it, would you know taper.

C

From just a few inches to about a foot and a half.

C

Towards the back, so we're proposing stone veneer to conceal the concrete foundation.

C

And then the last bits in here would just be cut sheets for the green mountain windows.

C

And more detail on the aluminum store or not storefront the aluminum store windows so that.

C

I'm happy to answer any questions that you guys have hey. You heard the man any questions, comments.

D

Hey mark martin, no go ahead, um the I'm assuming and I'm not an engineer. So I'm never gonna figure.

D

Out what what might be a risk? The new driveway is a lot of stone. Have water issues been addressed.

C

um As far as the grading that's shown on the site plan or the civil plan, we're looking at.

C

It's going to slope from the street back towards the garage and then just in front of the garage.

C

The slope changes back so that any storm water is basically going to go into the.

C

Into the not neighbor's backyard into their own backyard: okay, watering, the lawn yeah, okay,.

D

I was a little surprised and I apologize if I didn't notice this during one of the work sessions.

D

That the very deep um eve return, the sort of greek revival thing. It seems a little bit heavy and a.

D

Little bit out of character with the house itself, which doesn't have that detail. Can you tell me why.

D

You wanted to include that detail uh well, for the roof form itself. We were showing like a a hipped.

C

Roof we were trying to I'm sorry, I'm talking about the garage. Oh I'm sorry, the garage.

C

We were providing trying looking to provide a little more detail. Obviously, like you mentioned.

C

The house is very plain: the rakes have really no overhang and then the eaves have just a.

C

A four inch wooden gutter that basically provide any overhang so we're proposing a.

C

Six and a quarter inch overhang, something that just has a little more detail than what's in.

C

The current house, without being too making it too elaborate and while you're at it, what were.

D

You saying about the hip roof, I was gonna say for the hip roof. We were trying to minimize the.

C

Height of the structure for a butter, obviously with the slope, so we provided a hip roof there.

D

Those were my questions. Anyone else on this side, richard.

A

Yes, martin, I would just say that this is very well done. It's very tasteful.

E

Details are very nicely done. Materials are very high quality, so I support this fully.

A

Okay, so if we have no more questions and comments, um I'm going to open this up to the public.

A

If anybody would like to make a comment concerning this project,.

A

Please do identify yourselves stand in line at the podium.

A

There's nobody and I often ask nick if there's anybody online, there's one person, but they.

E

Haven't raised their hand, so I'm assuming they don't want to comment so they've heard you say.

A

That and they still haven't okay, I'm going to close this public hearing and I look for a motion.

E

I'd like to make a motion to approve, as presented, certainly mine. um I asked martin a question about.

D

His proposal sure um there were options with regard to the windows which direction.

D

Were you suggesting, I didn't see that I didn't see any options.

D

Weren't there restore or replace yeah sorry there's two options: one one to keep the keep.

C

And restore the windows on walden alley and gate street and then replace the other two facades or.

C

Ideally, the the applicants would prefer to replace all of the windows with a green mountain window.

C

That's in keeping with the you know the style, that's there and then being more energy efficient.

D

So still take no issue with that, so the windows on the mechanic street, isn't it no.

D

uh Which is well it's towards mechanic street yeah so along the driveway and then the back. The rear.

C

Would be replaced so where the original front of the house? Yes, those- are going to be replaced. Yes,.

C

In option two: let's call that option one. You know they're going to be.

A

Replaced on the back and and keep two sides, if that's what's the proposal, what is your.

F

I'll show you one option too: I don't I'm gonna leave it up to the. uh As far as my motion.

E

I would leave it up to the uh the applicant, because I take no issue with either approach.

E

Now, if the board has a problem with that I'll withdraw my motion and we can discuss it further.

A

What do you think you're, the one that um I'm just um uh thinking of what reagan said about the board.

D

Always wanting to restore windows as much as possible, and this is right in the heart of the.

D

Very very sensitive area of the historic district, so I was well she's. Not here. Okay uh was.

D

Expressing the preference for option one in keeping with what we suggest martin would.

A

You withdraw your emotion, I'll, withdraw my motion. You want to make a motion. Oh no.

E

So the motion would be.

D

uh I guess the motion would be to approve, as presented using option number one.

G

All seconds which are the original windows maintaining and restoring the original windows.

C

Along while now and gate street on the two two sides- yes, okay, so we've had a second.

A

um Could you support emotion, a little sure um compatibility of design was surrounding properties.

D

And complement and enhance the architectural and historic character.

A

I'll do it: okay, all those in favor, say aye aye,.

A

Moving right along okay, you have your approval, I'm too quick to get moving right along.

A

Petition of henry r clemento, with clementowitz revocable trust of 2013 owner for property,.

A

Located at 244 marcy street, wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing.

A

Structure, replacement windows and the installation of an hvac condenser as per plans on file in the.

A

Planning department said: property is shown on assessor map 103 as lot 51 lies within.

A

General residence b and historic district all right and who is going to present this.

H

My name is randy king, I'm the contractor. How badly did I butcher his name? Yeah, not too bad.

H

Okay, so as far as the announcement, it was incorrect as the.

H

Hvac unit is in the back of the house: it's not seen from the street it's directly into the.

H

Basement so we did not need a variance for that, and that was just the first go-around that we.

H

Started in april after reading all the ordinances, um it was revealed that we no longer needed that.

H

Variance, so what I'm looking for today is to upgrade the windows, the siding, and we want to.

H

Upgrade the electrical system from a 100 amp to a 200 amp service. All the documents are in the.

H

Package that isaac scanned for me would you like me to read verbatim the letter. That's attached.

A

um Certainly, okay, my name is randy king. I have been a general contractor for 17.

H

Years and in the construction industry for over 40 years, I have a great respect for.

H

Historical buildings and have completed several renovations on historical homes,.

F

I am requesting you consider unique and necessary improvements to home on 244 lassie street.

H

244 mossy street sits three foot: seven inches next to the neighboring home at 238 massey street.

H

And the roof is about two feet lower than 238. The issue is that, during the rain events, water sheds.

H

Off of 238 massey onto the sidewall in question on mossy street, which is existing wood, siding.

H

Even with gutters on 238 mossey street during heavy rain, the water shoots past the gutters.

H

And runs down the sidewall of 244 mossey street, with the recent addition of solar panels on 238.

H

Massey street it has somewhat modified the issue to add to the problem 244 mossy street, on that.

H

Side only of the house has less than an inch of overhang on the roof. The area between the two.

H

Homes does not receive much sunlight during the day so that it does not get a lot of drying time.

H

As a result of years of this continuous battering of water on the side, walls, even with the.

H

Several obvious repairs: it has gotten to the point where the damage is so extensive it and it now has.

H

Affected some of the interior floor joists and ultimately needs rep repair so currently.

H

I am remodeling the house, I'm repairing the whole side of the wall because all the joists.

H

The sill everything is completely rotted on that side of the house. My first choice.

H

After the repairs, the structural repairs are completed and I do have a partial permit from.

H

The building department, the best protection, would be to install vinyl siding now. I know.

H

That vinyl siding is not a popular item with the historic district commission and I agree it's not.

H

But in this instance, where it's barely visible from the street requesting that you would consider.

H

That we would be able to put certainty restoration, classic vinyl, siding just.

H

On that side of the house, where it's constantly under that constant barrage of water and weather.

H

I've submitted a package for siding options that I would like to have considered.

H

And again, my first choice would be the certainteed restoration classic, which is a very nice vinyl.

H

Siding it's a 0.044, it's a very heavy uh siding and when we install it, we would install the seams.

H

So that when you do drive by on the street, it's it's not going to be visible, as it is.

H

If you look at that side of the road, while you're driving.

H

You probably shouldn't be anyways, because it's such a narrow street.

H

My second option would be because the building is within five feet of the next building. We come into.

H

The fire code issues with the building department, so I have put on the three-quarter fire retardant.

H

Sheathing, so that I have a one hour: fire class, a fire rating on the house.

H

So vinyl siding would ultimately be the best bet for that side of the house. Only.

H

I'm not looking to do vinyl, siding anywhere else other than that side of the house.

H

As far as the windows, again, it's a vinyl window, which national.

H

Vinyl window truss guide is a very nice window. It's a vinyl window, but again I know that the.

H

Historic district commission is not really keen on vinyl windows or products. My second choice.

H

Would be to go with the anderson, a series which is a wood window? That's clad with a fiberglass.

H

Now that fiberglass is just would be on that side of the house. We do plan on changing the windows.

H

On the whole house, but on all the other three sides of the house, I would go with a wood window.

H

To match the existing conditions that are there now with the 5 inch trim.

H

H

Features that it has.

H

My other choice for windows would be the maven alleviate, which is also a wood window, that.

H

Has the fiberglass coating on the outside it's similar to a vinyl, cladding and aluminum cladding.

H

Except it's a fiberglass cladding, I'm sure you guys are familiar with those anderson, a windows.

H

And then, lastly, the we're looking to upgrade the service from 100 amp to 200 service, and I have.

H

Included a photo of the existing interior exterior meter box. That's on the house now.

H

The ex the box I've sent the spec sheet of the box, that's mandated by the state, because it's.

H

Electrical code and a picture of the house: that's directly next door that has the exact.

H

Same box, that's on it. I would of course, paint the box to match the house color so that it blends in.

H

And there is foliage, that's in front of it as well. Okay, all right! So it's those three items.

A

um So you have some pictures here. Do you want to take us through your package? What have you.

A

Got here yep: this is the front of the house. These are all currently they're all replacement windows.

H

They've been replaced, I would say, probably 20 years ago, with a cheap vinyl replacement window.

H

They're not very good at all, well insulated in the when the weather, when the wind blows the.

H

The curtains move, that's how bad they are. The second photo is of the side of the house as.

H

You're, coming from sanders fish market going down mossy street towards strawberry bank, the house.

H

Sits it bumps out at that point. Those are two of the windows on the side that we'd like to change.

H

That's the other four windows on the side of the house. The entrance side of the house.

H

That we would also like to change the one in the gable as well up in the loft.

H

That's the same side that you just saw those windows that currently have the.

H

Flat casing, with a trim around them, the scotia molding. The next photo is the back.

H

We're going to keep consistent with that the flat and the trim.

H

They're all going to have two over two grills everything would be the same.

H

That's the area between the two houses, it's actually three foot, five inches.

H

To some points, as you get closer to the street.

H

And again, like I said, I just would like to do: vinyl siding to the end so that building.

H

Drops down two feet where it drops in the back, so there was an addition that was put on some years.

H

Ago, in the front you can tell by the foundation part of its brick and part of it is old, stone.

H

What I would like to do is put a board down the side of that, where the vinyl siding and the wood.

H

Siding would separate, I would make it look like it was a column like it was meant to be there like it.

H

Was historically correct to match the other side of the house and just put vinyl from the front of.

H

The house on the right back now the house on the right has probably one of the first generations.

H

Of vinyl siding that came out and it's very um it's not attractive at all. The vinyl siding that.

H

Is new now you could never even tell driving by or even walking by that, it's vinyl siding.

H

So that's the area in question: that's the whole side of the house. We've already placed 20 feet.

H

Of sill and 20 feet of the first floor, walls with all headers and everything.

H

H

Well, one more you got to go up to the the next one would be for the electrical. So that's the.

H

Existing meter box, the 100 amp service box, that's on the uh house currently and that's um on the.

H

Right as you're coming from um the strawberry bank up towards sanders and the next photo is.

H

Of the neighbor right directly next door, when you walk up 244, mostly street, on the left, that's.

H

What you see all the time and that's the exact same box that we would like to put on the house.

H

And, of course, we would paint it to match the color and the vinyl siding if you guys it and.

H

Before you make a decision, I would, I would like you guys just to see the area to see that is not.

H

Even people that walk by and take photos of the house usually take photos of the house.

H

From the left side of the house, they don't take photos from the right side of the house.

H

If a site walk would be appropriate before you made a decision on the siding, I just really think.

H

That, for the benefit of the house, to preserve the um the historic structure and value, I think that.

H

It's it would be a wise idea to do that for just for the structure, as well as the homeowner.

H

Any questions hey buddy over here want to make comments, questions.

A

Rational, um I guess a couple of questions if coming down this, how much of the side of the.

B

Building the downhill side, the right hand, side of the building uh is, would be your.

B

Intent to vinyl side, if you go to the very last photo of the floor plan.

H

25, oh this one so right from where that jog out is back on the right hand, side.

H

Right there back, and that is currently where the um abutting house 238, sits, because you'll.

B

Watch back from the street more than yours does and what I would do to make that transition look.

H

Even nicer is to put that put a column down and bump it out, so that it looks like it was naturally.

H

Put there and it's still maintains a historical value that was left or something.

B

In the process of putting a fire retardant, is this also be the only area that you're talking.

B

About putting a vinyl or a fire retardant sheathing material, yes, sir yep right up that.

H

Whole side of the house because of the rot, the severe rod, it's really bad like when I went to.

H

Measure the windows I could, I could almost pull the windows out. That's how bad it was.

B

That seems loose.

B

A couple of times you've mentioned and and pardon me if I'm, if I don't catch on very fast.

B

Just trying to wrap my head around the vinyl siding, I'm I'm kind of shaking um a couple of.

B

Times you mentioned the replacement windows, uh I you were talking about replacing the frames also.

H

Yes, the whole window, all every single window in the house we're going to do new construction.

H

Only because the frames are so badly rotted that you can't add to them. They were already added.

H

To I would say, 20 years ago with it looks like an anderson replacement final replacement, that.

H

Were inserted into the existing frames and the frames are just too badly rotted to do that again.

B

It's just you can, I'm sure, you're catching on to this. A lot of the textural material.

B

Of the buildings for the public view is going to be lost in this process. The replacement of.

B

It's just a lot of stuff going out the window seals window, casings back bands they're all.

B

Getting tossed something you say is something's gonna get put back on, but a lot of times. It's.

B

It represents a loss to the community, um so.

B

I'm looking at the siding, this is I've been by the house. I live not far away. I I've been to the house.

B

I've never been inside, but I've been around it, but a thing. I've never asked myself, look that comes.

B

Out in the photographs, maybe because of the time of day that you took the pictures, but the joints.

B

Between the clapboards all seem kind of pronounced, or many of them seem kind of pronounced like.

B

For bunches of reasons, sometimes they've been shifted. The buildings wiggled.

B

But I'm wondering if there's any, are they just butted? Are they hard-butted jointed or are they.

B

Lapped over each other, it's probably because of 50 60 70 years of just weather abuse. It's just.

H

It's old side, so they're, just you just they're, just butted together, because they're also very.

B

Short cloudboards. For the most part, they are butted together, they're a four inch.

H

Exposure they're all currently cedar. Some is pine. They were replaced over the years.

H

As well as some repairs that were done over the years now, as far as the windows goes, if.

H

You look at the anderson I I sent. I think it's I'm not sure which number it is on the.

H

Proposal but ice, there are some photos of the anderson, a series that have the sill. It has the.

H

Flat casing, so everything that you see there will be replicated it's not like we're going to change.

H

That at all, I'm not going to picture frame those windows so that they sit flat on the house. That's.

H

Not going to happen like I said, I have great um respect for historical uh features and and.

H

That's one of the features that I would like to maintain: okay, here's one for you. The question then.

B

This building was built, however long and whatever all the abuses and things that happen in time.

B

But the cloud boards line up with the tiffany tops of the window casings and the cloud boards.

B

Line up with the sills of the window, casings the actual exterior white painted casings.

B

Is that something that you're inten in replicating also, I can make anything happen that you guys will.

B

You prefer, I certainly is that your proposal, if that's, if that's a if that's something that.

H

You would require absolutely it's again we're back to that whole concept of of.

B

Textual changes that that pile up and and are represented, diminishing of our historic.

B

Neighborhood, yes, sir, thank you very much. um Anybody else is. uh We also have.

A

A little discussion on the type of siding he intends to use on the rest of the house.

A

Would anybody like to talk about that? May I present I'm sorry, I I'm the homeowner and I just.

I

May I just share a few, certainly just push them out of the way. Okay. Thank you. My name is henry.

I

Clementowicz, I'm the trustee of the henry r. If we can make sure you stop, of course, I'm the trustee.

I

Of the henry r clemento, it's revocable trust of 2013.. uh My wife and I have lived in this house.

I

Since 2013 it, what attracted us to this house was the historic house in the historic neighborhood.

I

But um earlier this summer, randy saw that the siding had rotten through and he pulled it off.

I

And saw that the beams were completely rotten through and the house was in danger literally.

I

Falling down- and so this necessitated basically emergency repairs, which required us to take down.

I

The interior side siding and since it's an old house built according to zillow in 1790, that puts.

I

Us in the lead, pain abatement protocol and with the one-year-old we've been out of the house for.

I

About seven weeks- and I just want this to never happen to anyone again and as far as I understand.

I

It I'm not an engineer or a contractor. It's just that there's so much water that hits the wall. That.

I

It continues to rot through those beams that are rotten had been replaced. We had our house painted.

I

Three years ago- and they did some carpentry of with with new wood siding and they had already.

I

Rotten through in just like three or four years, because they get so much water. um And as far as.

I

The the house is so close to the house next door. As randy said, it gets to three and a half feet.

I

I've never walked between those houses. There's no reason to it's: it's like a cement block down there.

I

And and it's basically just a gutter of water all the time it rains it's like a little river.

I

And so it's just our hope that we can replace this in a way that maintains the structural.

I

Integrity of the house, and just as far as the windows go, they are just so drafty like we had.

I

Our house reinsulated recently and if you stand anywhere near the windows, it's like 20 degrees,.

I

You touch the windows and your hands freeze, and it's because, like on that side of the wall,.

I

There, the whole wall is gone now, um but but there's just gaps due to the old window. Sill.

I

And that causes our electric and oil heating bill. It's. It certainly does to go way up and and we're.

I

Just our hope is to be able to lower our carbon footprint, and part of that is through. Thank you.

A

Very much thank you. We've got to have a little discussion on this. Is there anybody else? Martin.

A

uh I don't think you have to resort to vinyl to get the kind of protection you're looking for.

E

If you're going to change out the clapboards to a new system, it's going to involve going all the.

E

Way down to the sheathing, there's all kinds of building wraps and things that can go under that.

E

But you offered a site walk and I think if we make a judgment here, that you're not happy with.

E

You know you're going to regret that we're going to regret that we didn't do a sidewalk.

E

So if you're offering a sidewalk, I think we should take him up on it and uh and really explore this.

E

All together, I I see that I see you accomplishing what you want to do. Make an energy efficient home.

E

uh That's protected from the weather and still satisfy our requirements for historic districts, so.

E

Why don't we punt the ball? A little bit, do a sidewalk, and uh that's that would be something.

E

That I would be amenable to and if I could think about this, if I could tonight what I'm.

H

Looking for is I'm looking for approval for the windows and the electric service, because windows.

H

Are 14 to 18 weeks out yeah and I didn't want to order windows until I had approved from you guys.

A

So if I could get approval for windows and to upgrade the electrical service and the siding.

H

After the site walk because I can't put the siding on until after I get the windows in.

A

Let's have some more discussion here, please, this is somebody's house. Yes, um I uh echo some of.

D

Its concerns about the window sills because um I I was focused on the the part that was rotted.

D

And had not paid as much attention to the rest of the windows, because I didn't understand that.

D

That was going to happen, my apologies, but just looking at some of these pictures. You've got.

D

Very deep old sills and you have those unique windows in the front that are part of the box.

D

If you were only talking about the windows on the addition in the back, I might be willing to do this.

D

Without a sidewalk, but um I I am concerned about what david's talking about about these.

D

The sills not being the same, not being as deep the the detail. You have you actually.

D

Have a bunch of different detail on these windows because they were put in at different times so.

D

You know how you're going to how you're going to match windows that aren't all the same are.

D

You going to replace all of them in the same with the same style and so on and so forth. So I.

D

I, even though I understand what it's what's happening to your schedule, uh also the hope.

D

Is that these windows are gonna, be there for 20 plus years, we want to get it right. I agree.

H

So the windows would be the same style. The only thing that I'm asking is that I can do.

H

The a series, the fiberglass coated on that side of the house, the remainder of the windows, would.

H

Be the wood windows they will still have the pronounced sill they'll still have the same flat.

H

Casing with the trim on the side, but they would be new construction, correct, okay, they're, all new.

H

Construction and I will make sure that I match the siding to the bottom and tops of the window.

H

I don't think it's going to look any different than it does now, other than it'll be more consistent, and this is what he is saying that he's only going to put the anderson.

A

Fiberglass windows on that side and the rest of the windows are going to be wooden.

A

Correct new construction windows and he's going to copy the trim. That's on those windows now.

A

So it's a certain amount of trust and if we put them off for a month, we've put them off till.

A

Next spring, that's the way it is nowadays. This is really tight. I'm just wondering yes, um thank you.

A

Chairman, um I would, I would feel comfortable trying to work with the applicant here in the.

G

Windows trying to get something passed, but I would like to see a sight walk for the siding.

G

But I'm comfortable separating those if we can do that, I think we could yeah yeah anyone else.

A

I agree: okay, we've got a couple of great I'd hate to hold up that bucket.

H

No it it doesn't matter, because I'm not going to order the siding until after the windows are in.

H

Anyway, so yeah, that's that's absolutely fine, like I said I just need to get the windows ordered as.

H

Soon as possible and to get the electrical service going so could, could I just clarify for myself so.

D

The the windows in the wet section you want you wanted those to be vinyl or fiberglass fiberglass.

H

And the rest of the house is wood correct, and I would like to stay consistent with the anderson.

H

A series just so that all the sashes look the same. um I'm going to do the simulated divided light so.

H

That they look historical, it's not going to be grilled between the glass they're going to be.

H

Very nice and you're trying to also order half screens for these windows.

H

Half screens, if you want, if that's what you guys request half screens absolutely so I guess the.

D

Question is just vinyl or fiberglass on that the issue, the issues of the siding.

D

They're exciting for the oh, but there's also a question of the windows in that wet section.

D

He's offering vinyl or fiberglass and some of those windows. If you see the pictures, they're.

H

Different, they have different styles. Some of them are just flat casing. They have no trim on them.

H

I want to keep it consistent around the whole house and because the one side will be fiberglass.

H

The rest will be wood again. I really don't think that anybody is going to notice the difference.

H

Whenever you look at the facade of that house and take a photograph of that house, it's going to look.

H

Like it does now, so I'm sorry, so you wanted to be consistent. All the way around the house, but.

D

You said that some of them are flat and some of them have deep sills so which one which some.

H

Of them are flat casing, and some of them have the trim around the outside edge of the casing.

A

They're band molding correct, so my intent would be either to.

H

Keep them all with flat without the band molding or put the band molding on.

H

Whichever that you guys decided it doesn't matter one way or the other to me.

H

I believe that the band molding has a little more historic.

H

Look to it, I feel to it. I think that would be the way to go. Okay, so we've gotten to a point here.

A

um That we could separate out the siding situation, schedule a sidewalk and just to prove uh the.

A

Windows for the time being so, if there's anybody in the public that would like to speak on this.

A

Please identify yourself.

J

Evening paige trace 27 hancock street, um it's a new world and it's a new time and.

J

I agree with you chairman that this is a family that needs to get in their house.

J

I remember and I'm sure mr ryan you're glad that I'm no longer there. I remember when we.

J

Would agonize over windows torture, people with who wanted to replace their windows.

J

And we would do it over the smallest of things.

J

So I applaud you for entering the new world.

J

And saying this couple needs to get their windows ordered. It is a leap of faith.

J

um As long as you all are understanding perfectly what they intend to order.

J

As far as the windows in the back, where it's rotting out and if you go on google, all you have.

J

To do is google the street address and you can zoom in on the rot on the side of the house. You.

J

Can also zoom in on siding, that's doing this and it's not anyway, I would simply say to all of you.

J

um Commissioner, dearing you're absolutely correct. You have every right to question.

J

What you're questioning, but I would say please, let's take that leap of faith- has some trust.

J

In the applicant understand that he will it's a very visible house, half of us all live near. It.

J

Certainly, mr adams would occasionally walk by it and, if anyone's going to know that it's not being.

J

Done the way they suggest it's going to be done. It would be you, sir, so I am 100 for the approval of.

J

This, as long as there is some sort of structure and sight walking going forward, give them their.

J

200 amps and let them try and order the windows and, if they're, wrong, you'll you'll, tell them and.

J

I assume that some one of you, brilliant men up there, women know that there's some sort of siding.

J

That might be an alternative to vinyl. um That would be a better solution than what we all know.

J

As vinyl siding, there's got to be something that's impermeable and thank you all for your time and.

J

Thank you all for what you do um good night thanks a lot. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the public.

A

Okay, so, um oh I'm sorry, ms kennedy, esther kennedy, 41 pickering, f, um I kind of came to this one.

J

Because I was kind of curious what was going on, I wasn't quite sure clear what was going on with the.

J

Information that was given, that was public accessible, um but what I'm hearing tonight is.

J

Process that what I'm hearing is back and forth, it's almost like a work session you're having.

J

Versus a final product for the public to comment on so I would encourage you to think about that.

J

And, to be honest with you, the windows are fine, but I really think that what I'm seeing is a.

J

Back and forth work session, and I would hope that when we're to the point where it's public comment.

J

We have a final product. I like the idea of mr ryan having a walkabout. It sounds like that's.

J

What needs to happen given some of the discussion that's taking place, so I would just like to look.

J

At the protocol, thank you all right. Thank you very much. I'm going to close this public caring.

A

Do you have a a comment that you feel is really relevant at this time.

A

Because we're right at the end of this okay, I'm going to close this public hearing and we're.

A

Going to be very specific on the window situation and the trim situation, and so we're also going to.

A

Cut out the siding in lieu of a sidewalk, so can somebody wrap that up.

D

Yeah I'll do it okay, um so I make a motion that we approve this application in the following manner.

D

That the replacement windows on the entire house be fiberglass or wood depending on their location.

D

That the band it be banned, molding, that's put on um that the sills and so forth- are made.

D

To match as best possible, what is there today that their behalf screens the electric service.

D

May be replaced as presented in the package um and what is not included is the.

D

Approval of the siding or choice of siding, which will be dealt with after a sidewalk, is that.

D

Let me get you some justifications here.

D

Conservation and enhancement of property, values and compatibility of design with surrounding.

D

Properties, all righty, so all those in favor say aye aye. Anybody against okay.

A

Get going on the windows, so the sight walk. Will I um you're going to be talking to mr.

A

Nick crock now yep I've spoke soon: okay, okay, yeah. I spoke to one you set it up.

H

All right and thank you very much. I appreciate everything you guys do I mean I'm on the.

H

Planning board and the conservation commission in my small town and I appreciate all the elves.

H

That you guys give okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Okay work sessions, old business.

A

Requested by eight kph, llc owner for property located at 161 deer street.

A

Where permission is requested to allow the demolition of the existing structure and.

A

The new construction of a new mixed-use building as per plans on file in the planning department.

A

Said property is shown on assessor map 125 as lot 17-3 and lies within character. District 5.

A

And historic districts- and this is a work session, so everyone gather up your junk.

A

B

B

Okay, peter you can be here.

F

Just that made a huge.

A

So little introductions good evening, uh carla goodnight from cj architects here.

K

With tom ballen owner of um any maple wood, yes,.

K

So we have made some adjustments, worked on some design updates and.

K

Tom fallon here has texted me, probably 25, different inspiration. Images he's very excited.

K

About this project, um which is fun, it's fun for me, to work to work for like to work like that. Yes,.

K

One of the ones that really stood out to both of us is um 1.0. The rail span, inspiration and.

K

We had adapted that into our prior arch design in the recess and also.

K

Tom and I have discussed this and he recommended that we utilize that as a.

K

Also, as a balcony protective cover- and you know, add, dimension uh and depth to the building so.

K

With that marching orders, we adapted the design to achieve that, and I think it's a nice addition to.

K

What we've been developing here as we go along, so that's our our rail span, inspiration on 1.0.

K

2.0 is aerial of the project just showing how the building fits into the surrounding context and.

K

Properties and 2.1 is the corner view showcasing um the windows at the at the corner and the new.

K

Balcony uh balcony caps and uh projections, which I think add a nice and nice touch to that.

K

You can see the penthouse barely uh in the in almost any view, so we really do have what.

K

Appears to be a four story, structure, uh 2.2 same view without trees for uh showcasing the canopies.

K

That are coming around the building and are of the same similar, somewhat scaled down version of the.

K

Canopies at the corner, I like that the canopy construction is, has a sort of a.

K

Cousin relationship with some of the bars you know on the upper arch elements as well.

K

So they look very compatible moving on to 2.3 again the side facing the tracks, which is.

K

Very visible, we've had some site developments. As you know, the boards are always.

K

Working uh together and to move these projects forward and the wall that you see there.

K

May be lowered significantly due to some our tank. um You know runoff uh management, drainage, things.

K

That we're working on with uh ambit engineering right now, so we may be lowering that wall somewhat.

K

On 2.3, so before we leave that slide, if you don't mind me, um there's two things that came up intact.

L

um One on the back wasn't just our tank, but we're trying to provide ada access to both.

L

Ends of the park and that's requiring a part that kind of does more comes over. It gets back to grade.

L

And we're still working on that we're trying very hard the other one was um eric lb at dpw.

L

Had a remark that he would prefer that the garage entrance was on deer street versus maple wood. Our.

L

Preference is certainly from maplewood, but I'm wondering if the hdc might weigh in we've spent.

L

A lot of time on street activation on the deer street side, where the restaurant is to to now.

L

Have a garage door at that wall is something we we would prefer not to have, but we'd welcome you to.

L

Weigh in on it, and you prefer what on maple wood, where it is now on, may board the existing curb cut.

L

Well, right now it exists in an in a protected notch of the building, whereas if it was on.

K

um Deer street it would be right on sidewalk, you'd, pull out and you'd be right on them. So on 2.3 the.

A

Garage entrance is just behind those transformer things: correct, yes, okay, thank you very much. Yes,.

K

uh You can see it better on the elevation page, but yes, so the term was the traffic onto maplewood.

L

They're worried about people coming out of there and trying to turn left across maplewood.

L

Yeah I mean the easiest way out of portsmouth from that spot is to always turn right, and then you can.

L

Go on to deer street or continue to downtown, so I think we're going to do a queuing study.

L

Just to verify that that's not an issue, but.

A

All he does know is traffic yep that it's. I shouldn't know that driveway and curb cut.

L

Is required anyway, for you for every source to access the transformers, because they can't do it.

L

From the rail side, so we'd be both keeping that cove and moving a door will it currently exists.

K

As well right, it's already there right now, so so, if the matter, if they were pushing the.

D

Matter and really wanting the um the door on deer street, would you consider changing.

D

Or could you change where the cut is now and pull this corner out and put the recessed corner.

D

On deer street and therefore it's not right on the sidewalk, just a thought, yeah, you have to have.

L

Five foot fire clearance from the transformers, so they'll always be a notch. On this side, you.

D

Were taking advantage of that naturally correct? Yes, I think it again. Is there now so we're trying.

K

To just keep keeping keeping with that, do you have any ideas, um how it would go on dear street.

L

It would it would replace the last window set the last mm-hmm okay. Can I speak to that.

E

Certainly, um this is the most logical place for it I mean it'd, be ridiculous to.

E

Sign your building around one subject like that- and this is the most obvious the tracks are here.

E

The greater amount of you know street and faster traffic's here, just make it a right turn only.

E

Coming out I mean just you know, this is the way to go about it as far as I'm concerned.

A

And right now there's uh with the little one-story building, that's there now you can.

A

Go behind it now, which I frequently do sneaking around many people do yeah. I would hate to see.

G

You have to have another one and then you'd have to have like warnings for the pedestrians, and I.

G

Don't even know what else that would entail, but I would hate to have the building have.

G

To be formed around it, we agree. The new parking garage has created a lot more pedestrian traffic.

L

Especially with the current construction, so you'd be blindly pulling onto the sidewalk.

K

I think my thought on that was that there is a. There is already a garage door directly across.

A

So it sounds like you, don't have to convince us with your plan here. Okay, I think it sounds.

F

Like you have to conservative sorry, you know yeah and be quiet all right.

K

All right, uh moving on to 2.4, again more of a no bleak view of the streetscape with and.

K

Without trees, showing the balconies and the the adjusted brick banding actually is pretty well.

K

Pretty visible here also, so we've adjusted that um to really sort of be in keeping with.

K

A lot of the lines that we have in the design already uh 2.6 close-up. Would you explain that.

A

Though it looks dark it's in the materials page, it's a black brick before it had white white.

K

We moved to black, I think it's much more appropriate for the whole. This.

K

Whole building has a uh you know: ironworks look about it that I think this is much better. Okay,.

L

I think, for my part, it gives part of what nick wants. I know he's not here.

L

Kind of a more of a foundation look but gives us a material that we think will hold up to the new magnesium salt a little better.

K

Yes, we all hope I'll hope somebody has to have a talk.

L

It's depressing, the same salt is eating the catch basins and my other buildings.

L

So we have three collapse already: it's eating everything.

A

Safety first, some sort of special saline solution. There was a cut rate from russia. They were here.

G

Just getting buckets of water from the beach all right go on all right. Yes, yeah.

K

uh 3.0 floor plans showing the dimension perimeter dimensions so for reference.

K

In case you're wanting to get a feel for the scale, 3.1 shows the flat elevations of all four sides. So.

K

You can really see the architecture and the the theme being carried around the building.

K

Probably the only view of the penthouse, the rest of the three series is the quarter.

K

Scale, elevations, so that if you have any areas that you would like to specifically.

K

Look at I'd be happy to talk about them in in more detail the decks the front uh covering of the.

K

Balconies would be a luca bun and the um the canopies would be a custom luke bond wrapped.

K

And glass composition very similar to our of the balconies or the awning that we did at um vaughn.

K

Street, can you elaborate on what that is? There's a picture coming up. You could just try telling me.

K

Well, they do you mean the the um awning piece you want to know about. Yes, so what they do.

K

Is um install uh steel in the wall and then they cantilever uh the uh outriggers through the brick.

K

And then that gets wrapped those get wrapped in um a luca bond and then they get little.

K

Standoffs on the top which hold the glass and it all gets mitered together and then.

K

Gets flashed into the into the brick? She knows what she's talking about and it gets glazed.

K

The seams get glazed. Thank you cool! That's! What's looking! Thank you very much. It's a metal panel.

K

That has aluminum sheet on each side and, like a plastic like what is it, foam plastic foam core.

K

It's like a compose composite foam core, but when you bend it into flats it doesn't wave around it.

K

Does an oil can because it's super flat and it um you cut a b groove in it and you bend it. So it's.

K

It has a seamless look about it. um Vitro bond is one of their competitors. It also does a nice job.

K

So I'm just gonna move through these three three series and.

K

Again, the roof is still standing seam. uh Can you explain that um overhang that you have.

A

The awning that's on the railroad track side. What is that? That is a.

K

Bracketed off the building- and it has a it's open to the underside so it'll, be there won't be a.

K

Any soffit under there um and it will be just the standing seam metal and it's over the.

K

Ventilation grills, which is where all the mechanical equipment is, so that's. Why.

K

With the penthouse up on the roof, we don't want to have a whole. You know collection of.

K

Mechanical devices up there, so tom would like to put put them in this area, and this is protection.

K

It's also cover for residential use of this um little area of land between the.

K

Building and the tracks, so it's a little bit of both and it's a design nod to the.

F

K

3.7, this is really the garage elevation and will be between the two buildings and not have.

K

A whole lot of visibility. There um 4.0 helps you better understand the banding details as well as.

K

Some of our metal work that is being proposed here and the bracket design and the canopy detail the.

K

Window grills that you're seeing- and this is- I don't remember if we discussed this last time.

K

But at some point the window grills were removed from the top sashes and they're.

K

Actually going to be fabricated out of metal and mounted in front of the glass, we did something.

K

Like that on market street, where the um the garage, the parking garage, is there.

K

And you have the glass in the openings and then there's a great on in front of.

K

It this would be a similar application, but it would be this grill pattern.

K

Tom has access to a metal working wizard and we're taking full advantage of it on this project.

K

uh Moving on to 5.0, um we will be introducing connie or storefront, which I neglected, to put.

K

In this, this work session set on the first floor and the windows uh will be the colby ultra series.

K

Awning, which is uh aluminum clad on the outside here of this, but these sections will be updated.

K

To be fully aluminum um for both the windows and the uh folding doors, but they already are.

K

Clad on the exterior carla, where do the? Where are the folding doors in the penthouse.

K

Area and the um the garage doors will be charcoal and uh etched glass.

K

And then moving on to 5.1 the requisite fence said along the railway.

K

And then the retaining wall, which will be actually coming down to maybe be just a couple of courses.

K

uh And then the here's, the black accent, brick, that we're recommending for the banding.

K

And then the the regular field, brick, the warren.

K

As usual and then we've dropped in the glass. The finished glass canopy, um which I just.

K

Happen to have the details for that 5.2 and the standing seam metal roofing that we're proposing.

K

For the uh for the um siding and then uh the aluca bond and I'll bring in a piece of that for.

B

Big enough to make something out of maybe a bird house or something.

A

So we've seen the presentation anybody want to make some.

A

Comments it's a little different on the windows as far as a four-story base.

A

How does everyone feel warm and cuddly marco? I love it.

D

I, like the banding, I like the banding, which, when it was white like that.

F

Really stood out, and, and this brings it back to an industrial like building which brings.

F

It back to its origins of the organization, so I I really enjoy the the dark brick banding. Thank you.

E

um Your signature feature, I think you finally have something that.

E

That is uh makes sense and it's it looks like it's doing something logical and.

E

I think it's much better than it was before and so very pleased to see that.

E

A lot of your details, I think, are right for the building the the masonry versus the metal.

E

And I do have a little bit concerned about the curved uh corner piece. Usually.

E

These things they end up, segmented and chunky and awkward.

E

So I just be a little concerned about that. um I'm sure you've, struggled and and to me, I'm not.

E

Sure, if it's right or not, is the relationship of the punched openings to their brick wall.

E

And whether the opening should be taller shorter, I I think taller is always more appealing.

F

But it's I would accept this, I'm just I'm just feel like it all almost needs to be slightly.

E

Tuned to be proportionately a little different, but I think everything is wonderful. The penthouse.

E

Though I I don't know, if you just want that to fade away and not even have a discussion.

E

um Maybe that's the way to go um you're you're kind of yeah it's there, but uh it's not so all in.

E

All I think this has really developed beautifully into something that's uh very appealing.

F

I, like it good, thank you. um I agree. I I like the black banding. I think that complements.

G

The iron work, um I think the iron work has a it's much more of a bridge, railroad feel.

G

Not a bow tie eyebrow feel um so I love that because you know the theme there's no guessing.

G

On it, there's no, you know funny nickname, thank you for not using the other name.

G

um But I think you've integrated yeah the foundation, the breakfast with the iron and.

G

I think the penthouse um walking around there you won't be able to see it from any of those.

G

You know I mean I know, there's you can't get far enough and there's another building between you. So.

G

It would be hidden that I will share tom. Has a engineering background, so he wants a very clean.

K

Very crisp, simple, simplified. You know luca bond siding.

K

You know standardized windows, folding doors, you know very crisp clean. Just what you see.

L

I think, too, as an engineer I'll note that the upper canopies actually have a water.

L

Management purpose that will become evident when the landscaping plans.

A

So I'm in agreement with what's been said too. I feel that.

A

You know finally, you've got something that makes some sense here for your window bays. I like it.

A

I can see what martin is saying about the proportion of the windows and.

A

I'm not sure you know it's a modern building, so we, you know a lot of us old folks. Have this 1.6.

A

The golden rule- and uh you know you've got this- is not there as far as that goes, but.

A

Is it important? I'm not sure this is a modern building. Well, I can share that. It's driven by.

K

The eight-foot mounting height florida floors, there's always something the sill being the.

K

You know code required distance off the floor and the manufacturer's maximum width.

K

It's a horrible allowed to design around yeah. It should be something more inspirational, dare they.

L

And- and we finally know where all the bedrooms are, so the windows aren't going.

L

This way no- and I feel it is, I think your description is crisp. It's a simple.

A

You know it's not a large building that people are going to be lining up at so I I feel it. We.

K

Are working on for the curved area? We are working on some texturing, brick texturing. That is going to.

K

Pull that all together, but it's still a work in progress, so that'll be something to look forward.

K

To next month yeah, so it's another work session. I think we're good. I don't know if you have the.

B

Opportunity to look at the some of the stuff that was brought in by our adjunct. Member of.

B

The commission, um but but some some spirited and playful little elements that all each one.

B

Of them, I think, while they're in your hand, tell a little bit of a story, I I think it would it. I.

B

Found it exciting thinking in terms of the context of this building that has regularized itself down.

B

Just it seems like a heck of a thing. The only thing we're missing in this is a conversation.

B

About uh the loss of the strip mall and the place that that uh it's in our history, that should be.

A

Photographed it should be, we should have the drawings that exist of the building. You should.

A

Photograph, the inside and outside give a little history of it put it all together,.

A

And give it to the city and for some reason the athenaeum apparently wants it. I still.

A

Can't believe they want all this stuff, they're, tough, ephemera, right, yeah, just stick it up on the.

A

Underneath the attic right in in the only knot I can think of to the existing building the roof.

L

Overhangs on the penthouse are about three feet: to kind of simulate that shade on the south side.

L

Of the buildings- and we approved that siding on the back of that that poor little building it was.

A

All beat up at one time, probably from people sneaking behind it with their cars yeah like.

F

Blind, okay, all right just so one more comment: oh certainly, sort of.

E

Did you did you look at? Maybe, uh since you have your your bays, have a luca bond.

E

Sort of uh assemblies did you look at, maybe that that curved corner all be all a luca bond and.

E

This way that might take some of the segmented quality out of it in that corner, you have a.

E

A a window that is kind of unlike the rest of the building- um I don't know it's just.

E

A thought just just a thought, all right, we're looking at um just a little bit of.

K

uh Development there sure that should bring that into focus all good stuff yeah. I think.

A

In the previous building that corner just got so carried away, I don't know where we were all at and.

A

Things got added to it and it, you know, looked like a bridge and half of the flat iron building and.

A

It was just like, oh my god, what's happened here, you know it got really carried away. This is very.

A

Simple, but having it dark would be very simple, too. You know the curved portion. It's certainly.

A

A few when you come back okay, so I guess we don't need any continuance or anything we'll tell.

A

Oh, I forgot comments from the public.

F

M

Issues to get this to you, it was actually done on sunday and sent over, but it got lost. So I think.

M

um Peter, did you bring a copy to everybody, yep.

K

So I'm not going to read that to you, because I think you're all able to do that. I, like it.

M

So I would hope peter you could bring up 2.3 the von street view.

M

So the bond street view is a is great for that and it's nice for tom because he lives on vaughn.

M

Street but I would love to see what the view of this building is going to be as you're coming down.

M

Maplewood ave, we have a couple of other shots of maplewood but they're up close and what I'd like.

M

To see is what does it look like coming down? Maplewood half! Isn't that it, though I mean no.

M

That's that's it's going to look differently when you're coming this way, just think about it. I know.

M

You're going to do this again, um I just wanted to make a suggestion about your wall. I, like the wall,.

M

um But having lived next to the railroad tracks for 40 years and owning buildings,.

M

That are very close to the railroad tracks in dover as well. I would highly suggest that.

M

Whatever material you pick is one that you can get the graffiti off of so just go to home depot.

M

And look at that can of stuff that you can buy and it tells you what things you want to wash that.

M

Graffiti off immediately, as soon as somebody puts it on, you've got to take it off. If you leave it on.

M

There it will become an art piece and if you want to do that, then change your material completely.

A

Luke, I just like the word so the second corner.

F

Where the so you have the um utility boxes down there. I know they have another name, but I just.

M

Forgot it that second corner closer to maplewood ave to me feels like it needs something. Maybe.

M

Maybe some of your banding or or corner stones like they have up front here or.

M

It has just the plain windows, so the side that faces the railroad tracks has all the.

M

The um balconies, but that little corner is what you're going to see as you're driving down.

M

Maplewood another reason to see that look is that you're going to see that corner first and so to.

M

Me that it seems that that needs something I don't know what and you might not agree, but that's fine.

M

um There's a doorway right underneath the tree on the left that opens up to the sidewalk and.

M

When you look at the plan, there's no measurements for it, but it looks like when you open that door.

M

It's going to be kind of tight to the sidewalk for people walking by there. The sidewalk gets smaller.

M

There so just something to think about um plan 6.0. This is my favorite thing. You guys love this.

M

Shows that the maximum height allowed is two to four stories and that the penthouse shouldn't be.

M

Any taller than 52 feet, I think they're presenting 67 feet just fyi. I love to add the historical.

M

Reminders that the train station was two stories and just for the point of history in case any of.

M

You didn't know this nick was kind of surprised when I brought it up the kearsarge mill, otherwise,.

M

Known as the portsmouth steam factory, which is on the corner of rock and hanover, has been one.

M

And a half stories for 142 years, but it was six stories for 16 years for 142 years. It's been one.

M

And a half just putting it out there just to think about um a lot of people use that as an example as.

M

To why that whole area should be big, I'm just letting you know for 142 years. It's only been.

M

One and a half stories other than that I like it, I I would. I think I find the.

M

Balconies a little busy for me and I think they're I put some other things in here- that I thought.

M

If they wanted to steal the ideas they can, if they don't it's okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank.

M

You um for the record, the building height in that district is 50 feet, plus two feet for a penthouse.

L

Layout plus 10 feet for community space incentives for a total of 62.. Are you certain that you would.

A

Not be trying, or would you get away with anything just putting it on top, so we have somebody.

A

N

N

Hi hi, can I actually see the video I can you see me or you can't.

D

No, we can't we cannot okay. Well, how can I become visible? You just have to look at my name.

A

Can you speak a little closer to you yeah? No, I asked if I can become visible.

N

To you or if I it just comes up by name, I just think you should introduce yourself.

N

Okay, that's fine! I'm susan sterry and I live on broad street, uh but I'm also co-chair of the.

N

Cemetery committee- okay: I have a question about the backside where the railroad tracks are now.

N

I'm assuming the engineer would be able to tell me what the um restrictions are.

N

How close you can be and how tall any um fencing or boundary between the two needs to be.

L

That's you, um the rail, the rail rear yard setback is 15 feet and this complies yep and thank you and.

N

There's no and there's no um height on the barrier between whatever kind of fencing or what have you.

L

Off the top of my head, I believe the fences are limited to six feet.

N

Well, my question is: is that per from the railroad or is that from a.

N

Whatever you know, you looked up some sort of compliance. The zoning code has a six foot fence.

E

Requirement there's nothing else. As far as rare there's, a railroad setback, that's 15 feet wooden.

E

In which they comply with, but there's nothing else specific to fencing height adjacent to a river.

N

Okay and so, and so the boundary line for the railroad is definite on that side of the of the.

N

Railroad tracks yep the wall is rendered, is currently one foot inside our property line.

N

Okay, no, I just asked because there I know the railroads coming in and there are going to be.

N

Some major changes and a lot more um trains coming through, and things like that. So I was.

N

Just wondering um what guidelines you use to determine um what the barrier is in between so.

N

Thank you sure, and actually I'll just add a little technical note. So the.

L

To slow down storm water flow into the storm water system in that part of town, there's.

L

There are tanks that kind of delay groundwater to try and get it to go into the ground. Instead,.

L

Of into the storm water system and the size of the system is such that we and the water table.

L

In that part of portsmouth is such that we need to raise the grade a little bit so that all the.

L

Detention, stuff is actually underground. We don't want it above ground yeah. Is that just a.

A

Full of big crush stone kind of looks like a whole bunch of egg crates, wrapped in engineering cloth.

L

In gravel yeah, we just put them in on court street, it's like a giant swimming pool underground.

A

All right, thank you, learning something all the time yeah when I get to a certain point.

B

I'm just going to explode, there's no hope, I'm not. Could we be there.

A

um So I guess what we need, then, would be. A motion so moved continue to continue. They can continue.

K

And we can still submit okay, okay still, a second, then all right, all those in favor.

A

All right, you're going in the right direction. Thank you. Thank you very much.

A

And the last one work session requested by lucky 13 properties, llc owner for property, located.

A

At 147 congress street, wherein permission is requested to allow new construction to an.

A

Existing structure construct a one-story addition, as for plans on file in the planning department.

A

Said property is shown on assessor map. 126 is lot 4 and lies within character. District.

A

5 downtown overlay and the historic districts, and please introduce yourselves and we'll, have.

A

A nice work session here good evening. I am sarah howard from market square architects and with me.

O

Is michael labrie lucky 13., yes, lucky 13. all righty you're welcome! Thank you. So um we do have a.

O

Pack submitted, but I did bring some updated sheets. I see you have a usb if you wouldn't mind.

O

I only have six sets, so a few of you will have to share okay, jeez.

O

Okay, great thank you so many papers for such a small building. Well, we changed some of the.

O

Design, it was a microphone just a little bit. Sorry good is that better, yep, okay.

O

um So I'll just walk you through the front half of the uh submitted package and then we'll go the.

O

Back half of the new sheets, so we have our cover sheet. Page two are: is the existing context, photos.

O

Sheet three is existing plan.

O

Go a little fast sheets, four and five are demo elevations, so they show the extent of.

O

The items being removed primarily a few of the windows and the existing awnings.

A

So either my numbering is off I'm starting with page 10.. I think we're.

A

Because we're looking at the revised sheets, so the first half is the package. That's being.

O

Submitted that was originally submitted, gotcha and then we'll I'll finish up. It starts at page.

O

10 or the revised sheet, so what page are we on now? Four and five? Okay, um demo elevations.

A

I was just painting over those brick I'll get there.

O

Yeah sort of so um pages six and seven show uh a rendering of a white with with gray and then the.

O

New addition is a white with gray base and then- um and we had done two essentially two color options.

O

Okay and so uh pages yep pages, eight and nine are essentially a dark version of the edition.

O

Instead of having it wider to match the building, so if this is actually probably a good spot to.

O

Stop um you are correct, you know part of our our concept from our last meeting was you know to.

O

Address the window pattern and also we wanted to make sure that what we were doing on the audition.

O

We addressed the building as a whole to create a cohesive look. So yes, the existing brick pie.

O

Lasters are currently red orange brick. We are proposing to stain them a gray color.

O

The metal across the top, the along the roof line, would be painted and then obviously the new.

O

Clotting materials would would coordinate so us as a firm and team. I actually prefer the lighter.

O

Option on pages six and seven over the darker options on page eight or nine, we think that it.

O

Looks a little bit cleaner with the building a little bit lighter a little a little less heavy.

O

But obviously, if the board prefers the darker version, we would be happy to comply. Maybe excuse.

O

Me I like the lighter one: okay, we just like the lighter one. Can we grab t towards that.

O

We'll get to that. What else have we got, though, the windows to discuss yeah? So that brings me to.

O

Page 10, so with that you can flip through your other packet that I've handed out to you today.

O

So these are the updated sheets. um Page 10 is the floor plan the difference between this and what.

O

Was originally submitted, is the we've extended the glass along the stairway, the rear, stairway.

O

So that same glass pattern will just continue down the side. The facade.

O

A little bit further and we've adjusted the size of the trash enclosure. We've made it a little bit.

O

Larger and tied it into that back canopy a little bit more.

O

Sheet 11 is an enlarged version of the west edition. Has some nice dimensions for you.

O

Large scale glass just a little bit easier for you to read.

O

Some details, uh one two and three that will be the.

O

Roof edge details there and you'll see on detail one there's actually a.

O

A little recess for the brick a little brick detail that would occur at the first floor.

O

Plan we will occur a little brick detail. Yes, just a little reveal on detail. One.

O

You can see it along the first floor, there's just a little recess. There.

O

To create a little interest on that facade, let me see what I'm saying I'm sorry, I just don't see.

B

Where it shows up on detail one, I see the detail. Okay, at the first floor line marker. If you go to.

O

The left there's a recess, it's a little chunk right. There see that yeah see that, oh, so that's.

O

Just the reveal and then the slab and then that's just it's just a brick- reveal for the exterior.

O

Is it the banding at the street about three feet off the street? Thank you. Thank you very much.

F

Very clear appreciate it not really, why is it there who knows set precious stones in there.

O

Page 12 shows the enlarged south canopy plan, um so the location of the steel posts that will be.

O

Painted black the line of canopy above and then the portion of the existing storefront that.

O

Would be modified and then the enlarged north canopy plan shows the extent of the new canopy.

O

The location of the posts and the size of the trash enclosure.

O

Page 13 is a roof plan. Well I don't get the front, I'm sorry. Can we do that again.

B

The enlarged self canopy plan: don't do that? Don't do it hit the microphone? Okay because it goes.

A

Right through okay, I will you may as well have a whistle.

F

I will avoid that. You think you'll come out. um I just don't. um Do you have a question.

O

Yeah, what are you doing? What's the front yeah we're looking at this thing with just in and you.

B

Know what you've got here? We don't yeah and we've understood understood. So the new addition has that.

O

Straight that runs parallel with the property line and then the property line actually curves. So this.

O

Canopy and the front will actually continue that curve and wrap it back around into the building.

B

Line of canopy above varying from disappears to one so it so it will belong.

B

Integrated with the roof of your audition, yes, so the roof of your addition is going.

B

To swing around the corner around the corner and unify these two spaces together, yeah yeah.

F

And go all the way over to the other park. It does not go to the other building in that corner to the.

O

Middle of goes to the other buildings. No, so the lighter dash line is actually the property line.

O

So the the darker dash line is the line of canopy. It will go from the middle pi laster all the way.

O

To the new edition, you'll see a longer kind of center line, graphic and that's actually the.

O

Property line, so you it's just to illustrate that our canopy is not overhanging. The property line.

O

Right so your canopy is totally a half round yeah or does it straighten out and no we thought it.

F

Looked cooler that way cooler we liked it better ruby. He liked it a little bit better um going down.

B

The side of maplewood avenue, I'm assuming that the concrete sidewalk the line of the inside.

B

Edge of the concrete sidewalk is your hard line. um It's very close. It's very close, yeah. Okay, I think.

O

I don't think we would look to have a little teeny, tiny grass strip, sure sure but yeah. That's that's.

B

Sort of that, the line of that concrete sidewalk was in degraded into the property lines of.

B

Your building yeah, so everything that you see the garden that's there and all of the the mulch.

F

And everything is essentially what we're built building on, and so the sidewalk begins pretty.

F

Closely, I mean they they've attempted to have it. Follow the property line yep great, so you're.

A

Not attempting to put a basement underneath this: no, this is just a frost, walleye home. Yes,.

B

Although there is a well and a solar stair there that is being removed, that'll be filled.

F

Because they could technically stay then no, I don't just can't have any water issues there.

D

So on sheet, 11, for example, where it still shows some stairs those are not there. Those.

O

Are the news there so the existing from the addition down to the street.

D

Correct, thank you because, there's quite a bit of grade there. Yes, as you go back beyond the building.

O

Okay, so now we're at page 14 and it shows the west elevation. It has a different window pattern.

O

Nice, big glassy, storefront, looking windows, you would be looking to use the marvin modern brand.

O

um They have a a very good window that looks very much like a storefront, but it's not technically.

O

A storefront, it's a nailing flange type window and the top window is an awning. It's an awning.

O

We did look at different glass options for this.

O

And it's been it's our understanding with talking with the window manufacturer that the best.

O

For heat gain and solar uh glare is actually the gray tint glass which I do have with me.

O

Tonight so you guys can take a look. um He didn't have a big sample with it.

O

Together he said it's the low e with the gray tint, so you have to put it together and then.

O

It's a little dark in here today, so you have to pretend that you can take a look at that also on.

O

The sheet are our inspiration, images and materials, any thought of changing those four windows up top.

O

No not at this time not um they are an aluminum color. We did talk about.

O

Whether they get painted out or vinyled out so that they at least have the same color pattern.

F

Painted so that it would be cohesive and look if not perfect, match.

O

On page 15 we have the north and south elevations.

O

And also the enclosure, inspiration for the trash enclosure, it's the same trash enclosure that.

O

Picture is from next door at jimmy's. We would most likely look to use the same product. It would be.

O

The same height as the rear canopy, but set back so that the rear canopy still has its prominence.

O

And then the front, the south elevation just kind of shows that the canopy wraps around.

O

Ends at that that middle pie, laster at the area of storefront to be.

O

Modified we've we've shown a trim panel to mimic a storefront pattern and a little directory.

O

And then our last sheet sheet 16 is just uh fenestration sizes.

O

Yep, nice and glossy seven foot sick.

A

Yeah, okay, comments, questions, there's a little decision here.

A

The lighter pile esters on the new edition or all dark.

A

That was page six and page seven, or something six and seven and eight and nine just trying to.

A

Get people to talk? That's all! Yes! That's fine! You didn't see a huge difference.

O

Yeah, it's just one look is a little bit heavier and darker, and the other has a little bit lighter.

F

I think it relates to the original building better. It carries through better there's so little siding.

O

Material too, as long as you can catch the color, you know so that it's the same as the.

O

Yeah, it looks bright white here it. I know it's always those rendering.

O

Components so we would use a you know, hearty hearty siding panel material.

A

You want to do it with that same brick. huh No, probably not! No, it's a little too much so.

D

um If I could ask the canopy or the roof, which becomes a canopy.

D

It in the rendering it looks like it's absolutely flat, is it pitched or is it flat.

O

No it'll be it'll, be pitch to drain so essentially flat, essentially, fine, okay, um the only visceral.

D

Reaction, I have to the light versus the dark option. Is this slightly wider piece right here.

D

Which pops out significantly when it's in the white black um rendering? And I wonder if you could.

D

Speak to why that particular width? Is it just the way the it's, because it's on the curve so.

O

It's hard, you know we have some structure in there and so to get um window sizes large enough.

O

On a curve is difficult, and so it's just the way that the corners come together. That particular.

O

Piece just happens to be wider: okay, don't know if anybody else sees that popping out, but it's.

D

Just particularly close yeah, it looks, I think it. You know our pie. Lasters are two foot five.

O

And and two foot six, I think it might just be and that that one is three feet. I think it's.

O

Just possibly the angle that you're looking at because it's really not that much larger okay.

D

I personally have a preference to black, but I don't I don't. Your preference should.

D

Rain, I think, with regard to this they're, equally interesting or equally good. I think thank you also,.

F

When we get into talking about exterior lighting, that lighter color will enable us to have maybe.

F

A little bit of fun, with some some wash lights on those that we'll be discussing in the next.

F

A

Okay, how's everyone doing yeah. Thank you chairman um personally, I I love what you've.

G

Done with the canopy integrating the new part into the old section,.

G

But I think it's a dramatic improvement from what it currently exists, so you've taken what.

G

Exists and you've making it much nicer, and I really like that idea that curved canopy.

G

um I I personally pref I like the lighter color, because I think it integrates it more and there's.

G

One big block on the end there- that's just my preference um yeah. I don't have any other issues.

F

Yeah I mean it's a it's a it's a hard building to work with, but I think you've done a good job with.

F

It um it's a much more appealing structure with your changes and enhancements, and I think that the.

F

The curved glass ties it in really nicely. I don't have a preference on the color. I do.

F

Like black as well, but um but maybe with the lighting, as you mentioned, that might be nice.

F

Thank you yes, martin. um I know you're trying to do something very artistic and.

E

You know add an artistic element to this very nasty building.

E

I just don't think that you're quite there. um If you look at it, it's just.

E

It to me you're missing some opportunities. You've got some very thick elements going.

E

Vertically, to a very thin element, which is kind of an odd.

E

E

You know I just also in your plan in in your rendering you're, showing a column in the back, that.

E

That's sort of up against the building. It's not it's not shown in plan um yeah. So we did talk.

O

To structural engineer he has uh stated that we wouldn't necessarily need both columns in the back.

O

There we can get away with one tucked up close to the to the back corner and span span this without.

O

Columns, so that's so the extreme one to the corner would stay and the intermediate one would go. Yeah.

E

Okay, I I would think it would be a lot stronger if, if you didn't have these very thick verticals.

E

And you went with the thin columns that marched its way around the corner onto congress street.

E

You know I to me this is reading as a bad 70s, modern edition, and that concerns me.

A

The building was, I, wouldn't, I wouldn't yeah some of your inspirations, like the west elm.

E

It that reads better because you have that lettering. You have that lettering. That.

E

Of the sign that really makes that building and if you had that similar lettering kind of.

E

Going around the curve, I think that would be your your signature element that would that would pull.

E

That off, but right now it's just kind of bleak looking. You know it's just very, very a messian.

E

You know like a like a bad messian copy. You know, I think you could do this. You could pull.

E

This off it's just right: now, it's not there and- and you know um I think I know you can get there.

E

I I'm just thinking some of the best elements of that curve. Wrapping around has to be more.

E

Prominent um right now, it's just a little thin and it doesn't doesn't rise to the occasion and that.

E

Very little that very little shelter on the back of the building on the parking lot side. It's just.

E

You know it looks like you know, something that you would order online and it would show up and.

E

They'd weld it in place and stick it there. It's not really.

E

You know I'd like to see, I think you, I think, you're aspiring to a certain thing and.

E

And you're not quite there and and you could get there, um but it's not there yet.

A

Something that you said, martin, that you know gelled um to me anyways, was the columns.

A

Coming up and then the horizontal roof is thin and it doesn't doesn't gel. You know, as far as.

A

Proportions going it just if maybe, if that were a little heavier a little heavier.

F

Windows on the second floor, maybe that would help yeah. I want that band to be like a strong feature.

E

No, I think you do too yeah um yeah it's yes, we do. I mean it's not very confident, but yes, we do.

O

But no you're correct, like that's that horizontal element. There is.

O

Essentially, the element that you want to make look good on this portion, because that's what what.

O

People are going to see and since you're putting this curved addition on to this block atrocity.

E

Maybe there's a little bit of a curvature into that back uh shelter so that they're they're.

E

Communicating a little bit yeah right. We did look at one uh option to doing like a little.

O

Little half half curve in the back you just it ends up being really really shallow, because you're.

O

So close to the property line back there anyway, so it's um did you look on amazon, you didn't get them.

O

We weren't super keen, um you don't want to knock it down. Do you not at this time.

O

Right now, isn't there a uh you know big, it has a bigger canvas.

A

On it right now, it's kind of so we're taking that off for sure yeah that's gone.

O

um But the other part of it too is is, it is the back entry, but it's not really the back.

A

Of the building you know because everyone going up, maybe there it is it's right, it's important. It is.

A

Which is why we wanted it to be something of some substance and not just a little and then.

E

You got that terrific new architecture right on the back against the parking lot of the yeah.

E

No um okay, okay, so we can definitely take another look.

O

At that all right, so I I think you've gotten some from my dears yeah. You know support.

A

And um I should open it up to the public. Does anybody want to speak about.

O

Yes, I guess later saying: is there anyone online? No, no okay, good evening elizabeth property owner 115.

M

On mcdonald's street, um I remember this: I'm pretty sure this used to be the ranger club, yeah basement.

F

Was yeah, the basement was yeah, um so I haven't looked at. I haven't seen what you saw because.

M

That wasn't presented but see how the building on the left is. It kind of. I don't know it's jim's.

M

Whatever it's called the jazz club, so you see how it the the edge of it goes down and then back up.

M

Get rid of the flat awning on the back and maybe do something that goes down and back up and that.

M

Way the building would tie into the building next door and um on the the windows on the top.

M

I don't know what it is about them, but the windows on the top to me make it look like a.

M

Garage it it they need something. I don't care, I I dare to say I know you guys love this, but.

F

Old-Fashioned shutters I mean I don't care, it just needs something if you can bring up page two peter.

M

Okay, stop go back one yeah there. It is that one! So what's next to this, is this restored.

M

Beautiful building on congress street and then you have the white building with the brick and.

M

Then you have these wild awnings on it, but that's classic of that era is those that was real classic.

M

Is they had you'd, see pink ones and people would have yellow ones and they'd, of course, be brown.

M

But the the awning that you have is very seems very stark and the building itself is stark. So.

M

It almost feels like maybe a wave something with that awning. I like the idea of it coming around.

M

But it just feels like those windows across the top become more focused, because you have something.

M

Dark underneath it, so I don't know if you can put something on the windows I heard mr labrie say.

M

Something about lighting, but the top needs something desperately in my opinion, but they were.

A

Also saying they could paint the because they are aluminum uh could easily be painted. Those windows.

A

But I think it's the outs, it's the area neck. It's the fact that you can make those windows.

M

Any color you want it's still just stark with the line underneath it that says, look at the.

M

Windows when you put that awning underneath it it accents those windows and usually you.

M

See on brick buildings they have like a top and a bottom and a side. Some kind of trim around the.

M

Windows might help that's my two cents. Thank you. Thank you and there's nobody online. So.

A

I guess you want to come back with it. Yes, I think we would like to do a work session. Public hearing.

O

We would like to do that. Okay, um I think we've got enough guidance here. You know if we can make.

O

Some adjustments we'll be pretty close yeah. I think you will okay, so I guess we need a motion.

E

Motion to continue yeah seconded all of us in favor against there you go. Thank you.

F

F