City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 13 Apr 2022

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From YouTube: 4.13.2022 Historic District Commission

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4.13.2022 Historic District Commission

A

Yeah we're to have six in a minute.

B

Is this rich? No, it isn't um welcome to the april 13th meeting of the historic district commission.

B

The board's actions in these matters have been deemed to be quasi-judicial in nature. If any.

B

Person believes any member of the board has a conflict of interest. That issue should be.

B

Raised at this point, or it will be deemed wave just for the fun of it, I'd like to introduce.

B

Our members again, we have dr dan brown who's, not here yet so I have martin ryan.

B

Good evening and reagan rudy good evening uh next to me is nick crack. Now, who are you.

B

I'm gonna wait until the end, I'm waiting until the end all right good evening and I'm from the.

A

Planning department, yes, you are, and our city council member, rich blaylock, is soon to be.

B

Here within a minute or two margo, doring, hello and david adams good evening, so karen buffard is.

B

Out tonight, and also heinz silk schubert uh on is off to um have a procedure, so we hope him well.

B

So we're going to move on to our administrative approvals and nick, would you kindly take over.

A

I'll share my screen. Thank you. So we have tonight five administrative approvals.

A

um 687 middle street 123 congress, 333 state, 130, gates and 99 vote. Does anybody want to pull any.

A

Of these out as a as having a either a conflict of interest or or wanting to discuss in more.

A

Detail any of the five otherwise I'll start at the beginning, yeah. I hope not. No we're good good.

A

Okay, 687 middle street: this is a application to install a generator in the rear yard.

A

Of this property I'll try and get you a map on the screen, I don't believe other than uh some.

A

Existing landscaping, that's in the area, hang on. uh That's the bypass back there. I believe.

A

It was the rear, but I know I'm looking at the map and trying to figure that out.

A

This is the location they'd like to install it next to the meter socket and the gas line.

A

Coming into the house, let me just see if we can there's already condensers in this location.

A

That have been previously approved, so this is where they're proposing to put the generator.

A

You can see they're they're, not screened uh either because they.

A

Probably because they didn't need it uh at the time it was permitted.

A

Meets the dimensional setbacks on under zoning, so there's no additional tubing or going up.

B

The house side of the house- I don't believe so, I believe it goes right into the box in the basement.

A

And here he is.

A

Any questions on that from the board: no, no, okay, we're on our second administrative appointment.

B

No problem good evening good evening good evening, literally practice no problem. Okay, we are the.

A

Second, one is 123 congress street, um we just did an administrative approval or maybe it was.

A

A public hearing in the last couple of meetings on the loft uh in the same block same building in the.

A

Same block and these folks would like to install in front of their business the same gooseneck.

A

Lighting that was approved for both the loft and the french bakery. That's there. So it's it's! The.

A

Lights without the wire guards in that are shown on the second sheet, I'm not sure which of those.

A

Two, it is uh of the gooseneck lamp. I don't know if anybody noticed that, but probably probably the.

A

Short one, no probably the extended one, looking at the illustrations of the others, yeah okay,.

A

Well, if that matters uh stipulated, otherwise all I know is they're not doing the wire guards. Okay,.

A

Okay, um third, one 333 state street they're. Doing sorry can I yep for that? It looks like they've.

C

Got some conduit that they're showing yep um do we want to stipulate that the conduit be painted.

C

If the conduit is on the outside, at least we painted to match the sure the background. Oh.

A

Okay, so the conduit should be painted certainly to match this match the.

D

A

So 333 state, which is the td bank, the the building built in the 1980s with the drive through.

A

Doing a full sort of- I guess: restoration you'd call it on that building and they are.

A

Replacing the incandescent lighting underneath the drive-through portion of the building with.

A

Led lighting, that's the only reason they're here everything else is in kind. So it's very incidental.

A

Any anybody have issues okay, 130 gates, 130 gates is seeking to replace two replacement.

A

Brosco windows that are apparently rotten and in disrepair, but the replacement, frosco windows.

A

From the 70s they'd like to replace them with the same grille pattern, double hung simulated.

A

Divided light six over six, but a marvin integrity window, which is the uh the fiberglass paintable.

A

You know so the only thing I could think of is whether you wanted them field painted.

A

uh Or not, but that's oh and one door, I guess they got a door there as well. Is this the corner of.

B

Is this gate and marcy? No one dave is 130 that low.

E

Gates and marcie: no, it's not the corner of gates. No.

A

Anybody have anything you want to say to that. No, I don't have any problem on it.

A

All right well I'll, move to the next one. We can always back up so 99 bow street. The last.

A

Administrative approval they are seeking to modify the previously approved project.

A

And I believe, there's three or four changes that are represented in the drawings. The first is the.

A

Reducing the overall deck size by about 500- and I think, 43 square feet- is the reduction.

A

And I think the lion's share of that reduction, as shown on the illustrations, is on the uh the far.

A

Side of the deck, uh where the condo association that was concerned about a whole raft of things.

A

Here it's been pulled back from from their side of the uh the project, so that's number one: the public.

A

Deck area has been increased by nearly 500 square feet as again part of this process.

A

Tack and planting board, so it's more than I think, doubled in size and then three they've removed all.

A

Sculpture uh and artwork that was proposed to bookend that deck and they're going to replace.

A

That, with the railing system to match uh the the railing that was approved, that's too bad.

A

Yeah and the fourth and final was some very minor changes to the planter locations. No additional.

A

Planters just a shift as as the shape of the deck can you. I had trouble finding um the actual plan.

C

That shows this because it looks like there's a lot of the previous application and the existing.

A

Yup stuff- and I I believe, the first set of plans. Yes, there are many sheets here like 50.

A

Yeah they wanted to be thorough and include every previous decision, but here I think, is where you're.

A

Seeing the deck pulled back from the okay, so that's what they're proposing here! That's the main.

A

Reduction, if you can see the grabber up there, this area down here and the public viewing area which.

A

You can see better yeah. The subsequent drawing is increased in size, try and get there. This area here.

A

Is nearly double what it was last time and the sculpture was here and here yeah: okay,.

B

So this is very good yeah yeah, I think I mean it's responsive. So if anybody doesn't.

B

Understand, what's happened here to this large deck? uh There were some complaints about it, but.

B

They have reduced the size of the deck and they've increased the size.

B

Of the public deck which is fully accessible without having to go to a restaurant.

B

Correct so, and that way it's good, that's it yep. I've got one stipulation uh to date for number.

A

Three with the conduit paint, the conduit that was, it yeah.

A

Yeah, the windows are already half screen in the application for gates wow, that's good.

B

um Does anybody have any comments or just want to make a motion.

F

No yeah, I'm just going to abstain from the 99 bow street. Just uh just yeah recuse yeah yeah request.

G

Myself, sorry, okay, all right! Fine, then I um I will um move that we approve 99 bow street as.

C

Presented very good right, very good. Second, uh okay, all those in favor, aye, aye,.

B

And uh so let's have a motion on the rest of the package. I remember that we used to believe loading.

C

A move that we approve uh one through four, I guess with the one stipulation um the conduit be painted.

B

Second, that all those in favor.

B

Opposed no all right, there, you have it so we now have some new business, a public hearing.

B

Petition of market wharf condominium association owner for property located at 33 deer street.

B

Wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing property.

B

Extend the third floor, decks, replace balcony, railings lighting and miscellaneous improvements.

B

As per plan on file in the planning department, said, property is shown on assessor map 119.

B

As lot 1b lies within the character district, 5 and downtown overlay and historic districts.

B

So, who here is to present this joshua smuggled several architects of portsmouth.

B

All right so we had walked through this before in public hearing, and it is.

D

For the most part, exterior improvements, replacing railings and finishes and kind to match existing.

D

One of the key areas that we're here to discuss is the extension of the deck at the rear.

D

Were there any specific questions that the the board had, would you prefer I just walk through.

D

Sheet by sheet, it's just a quick walk throughout things, right, yeah, um so sheet number one we're.

D

Showing the two buildings uh locate the property 33 deer street on the right is building a.

D

On the left is building b, uh the deck extension that we'll get to is at the rear of building a.

D

On sheet 2 we're showing exterior improvements, top left is showing how we're going to address.

D

Concrete retaining walls with a timber tech. It's a synthetic board screen to beautify that.

D

We're also going to update the railings and stair treads and risers back there to match.

D

Same thing, synthetic board finish: the upper right is showing at garden level how we're.

D

Going to update uh hvac screens, along with the the concrete, retaining walls at rear, so there's really.

D

Just a beautification of that the condo owners spaces at the garden level. I have a quick question.

C

If you don't mind, um are you going to have? Are you going to put this stuff in so that there's.

C

um Some breathability so that it doesn't totally just degrade the concrete behind it and 100. So the.

D

Plan for there's two different systems being being worked here so with the retaining wall.

D

The plan is to put breathers um nail breathers to the concrete and then to apply uh with some.

D

Small air gap- I think we have quarter inspect right now, but the builder can firm on site with.

D

What looks appropriate for the scale on the wall and so that'll give some space for breathability.

D

And just I think it's a better aesthetic than everything just being tight up on the wall.

D

And then, similarly with the the vertical screening that we have so a similar material quality.

D

Change in orientation just to give some um some change up to the to the space.

D

Back there that'll be spaced out to allow airflow around the hvac units below great.

D

So, moving on to sheet three of seven, um we have two different ceiling treatments, exterior ceiling.

D

Treatments so in certain locations we're going to be replacing to match existing.

D

There is a almost like a real wood finish azek product that we're going to be using.

D

And trimmed out in white asac and then underneath the new deck extension.

D

Going to be using a product also by timbertech, called dry space, it's currently used on the.

D

On the building at the lowest level, underneath the balcony so we're just going to.

D

Take that and use it at the the rest of the rear deck extension. Any questions there.

D

Right sheet, 4 we're showing around the building we're replacing.

D

All the railings on the building to match a very specific railing that is existing on site.

D

So at left in the middle there's a railing that says existing railing on site. This is a black.

D

Aluminum regal ideas railing and the client would like to replace all and should be said.

D

That these are guard rails because they're at certain balconies and stair locations.

D

Around the building with that black regal ideas railing one of the simulations that the board.

D

Requested in the in our work session was that those front balconies had a wider like more proud.

D

uh Corner post and the manufacturer for this actually makes a four by four post. So at that.

D

Specific location, because that had the wider post to begin with we're going to replace those.

D

Corner posts with the wider 4x4 post and that's covered in the specification sheet further down.

D

Any questions on that one great um sheet: five of seven is highlighting um the area increase.

D

uh That they're looking to extend that rear deck, so this is at the third floor so in the top two.

D

Images where you're seeing them again converting that white railing to black railing uh the client.

D

Would like to extend the condo private balconies up there, that deck out three feet and then on the.

D

Underside again cover that with the timbertech dry space to provide coverage for those two entries.

D

You can see and then some further coverage for the deck space below and the garden space below that.

D

Any questions on that one.

D

Right, um the next two sheets are specifications so again top left we're.

D

Talking about the railing system, we're using in the corner piece next to that on the right.

D

The bottom three uh specifications there, the left.

D

Covers the exterior ceiling, um the one that's being replaced, it's got sort of a real wood feel.

D

And then to the right of that, we've got the screens and stair risers, so the stairs will have.

D

A color contrast and then we've got decking and treads um at the far right. So all the exterior.

D

Decking will be placed with that, and all the exterior stair treads will be replaced with that.

D

And then, on the final sheet, we're showing the lighting.

D

Fixtures that we'd like to replace in kind so they're existing we're not adding any new we're.

D

Basically, replacing existing floodlights existing sconces around the building with an updated.

D

Lighting, aesthetic that we feel aligns with the rest of the updates at lower left we're showing.

D

Planters that we've called out previously, I think in the earlier sheets of where we'd like to.

D

Add new planters and beautify both the garden level and the street level and on the lower right.

D

Is an image of that timbertech dry space that will be applied underneath the new deck extension.

D

Any questions be sure I have my orientation correct on sheet four of seven, the front.

F

Railings, are these any of these front on deer street? They are okay, so so.

F

So these will be the only black railings, the only black things on the deer street side.

D

The railings on the building you're going to yeah there are black railings across the street and on.

D

Other buildings and then we're planned there are side balconies as well, so from deer street. You.

D

Can actually see the side balconies in between and on the sides and as you travel down to the.

D

Corner you can start to see around the rear, so the desire there is to have one railing, aesthetic.

D

Around the whole building, thank you. I was reading this that the front was going to remain white.

D

We had originally so the previous. The first recommendation was to go all black.

D

In the hearing we had talked about possibly going white in the front.

D

And then, upon review with the client, the builder and going back to the initial advice from htc, we.

D

Decided to do a uniform, aesthetic around the whole building. So when we resubmitted this.

D

That image is showing white, that's an old image, but the specification is just showing.

D

Black for the whole building- okay, I guess that just needs to be clear in the.

C

Yeah, I understand yeah. I would add also that there is some symmetry to these three um balconies.

B

Thinking that that helps a little black rails.

B

Does anybody else have any questions.

E

um Mr chairman, I I do not pretend to know anything about it, but the lighting that you're describing.

E

Does it meet with the city's aspirational uh dark sky program? Are they dark sky compliant.

D

That I'd have to circle back on. I don't know specification for that. Okay, if, for any reason,.

B

They're, not you have to change it, you would have to submit it administrative approval.

B

um Okay, well, I'm going to ask if anybody yeah- yes, just a clarification for um this.

C

Dry space finish underneath: um what's the reason for using that type of.

C

Construction for underneath the extension rather than like be putting using the sort of the real.

D

Wood yeah, um so the briefest way is to wear. This is that in certain conditions, we actually have.

D

Waterproof decks so like those front balconies some of the side, balconies and the rear ones.

D

That had the hvac above those are actual ebdm over framing they're, fully wrapped. That's a waterproof.

D

Structure, the decks at rear are not fully waterproof. The way that we're structuring.

D

Those and framing those there's existing framing. That's that changes conditions.

D

Throughout the rear, and in order to just add to that without rebuilding the whole thing.

D

It creates underneath the best way to say it would be sort of undulating ceiling, condition.

D

That would require many broken sections of that ceiling and trim and could be a little bit. I want.

D

To say, chaotic to some degree, so the simplest way to handle that is to do just the timbertech.

D

Dry space, which we've already used lower levels in the building kind of carry that aesthetic up.

D

And that provides one cohesive surface that performs a double function of catching the water.

D

And transporting it to an internal drain or gutter inside the decking, the new decking system, gotcha.

C

Thank you, yep anybody else. Okay, anybody in the public would like to comment on this.

B

So introduction please! Yes, mr chair, my name is attorney john lyons. I represent.

H

Port harbor land who owns the sheridan, which is a direct of butter to this to market wharf. One.

H

Condominium uh and the lot across the street, that's I think it's been before you already.

H

Wants to to be developed, um this is actually market wharf one condominium. There is a market.

H

Wharf two condominium, which is actually contained uh within the sheridan hotel.

H

The deed and easement for market wharf one provides for 58 parking.

H

Spaces on this, what's now the surface lot across the street that easement deed allows my client.

H

To relocate those parking spaces and place them in another location, while development is.

H

Moving forward the proposal that's been presented, I think, to this board and I know to the.

H

Planning board, as well, actually provides for those 58 spaces within the new garage. The reason that.

H

I'm here today is that my client has provided 58 temporary parking spaces within the underground.

H

Garage at the sheridan, unfortunately, there's been some litigation that has arisen over that.

H

My client has received notice as in a butter and if you look at sheet one of seven you'll see.

H

Above the first point, four plans of building a and b there's a reference to deer street condo.

H

Parking, it doesn't say: market wharf, one. It says deer street condo parking, we're unsure. Why that.

H

Reference is there or why it needs to be there. But since we receive notice as in a butter and there.

H

Are issues pending on where the parking is located? I'm simply here today to indicate that we dispute.

H

That market wharf one has any condominium parking in the area as shown on this plan. It does.

H

In the underground garage permissively by license through my client, have 58 parking spaces. They are.

H

On a temporary basis, I have no comment. It's up to you folks, to decide on on the work. That's done.

H

As far as what's before you, thank you sorry, I'm here for the record. Thank you. Thank you.

B

Is there anyone else? Okay, I'm going to close the public hearing and look for comments and emotions.

B

Don't forget to at least include a finding of fact or something it's going to be fun.

I

And I have a couple of stipulations: yeah um I'll move that this um application be.

C

um Approved as presented with the few stipulations, you want to read the speculations that the.

A

Lighting shall be dark sky compliant and that all balcony railing system shall be black aluminum.

A

And I wasn't sure which picket system you you presented? Is it wide narrow or the decorative.

A

It's included on this sheet in the top corner.

D

Can you repeat the question so you've got it's this railing system here that you're proposing.

A

I guess there are options here for the picket system. Are they wide narrow or decorative? I.

D

Believe this is the wide and arrow that we're showing here, and I can confirm that when we.

D

Submit our stipulations, I think wide and arrow are two different choices. ah Forgive me uh we'll need.

A

To clarify that's narrow, we'll need to clarify what this is, but this very specific system here.

D

Visually shown is what we'd like to do: okay, and so, when we submit whatever one that is.

D

The clarification yeah we'll clarify that all right and I'll just say as part of the uh motion.

C

That we are not covering any sort of parking consideration, yeah and we can, I think, believe it's.

D

We'll circle back, but I believe it's fine for us just to remove that from the drawing okay. It might.

C

Just be a clear glare, so why don't we stipulate you? Do that yeah we remove the parking label from.

D

The drawing and supply specific railings- that's all I have three. Oh sorry dave. Do we have a second.

E

A little bit of discussion amongst commissioners, oh okay, we just need a second.

I

Executive, okay. Okay, what what would you like? I I'd like to comment as reagan pointed out that.

E

The we had been thinking of the.

E

Ballast drives being installed that were being sold on the dear street facade of these two.

E

Buildings, we have been thinking of them as being white, uh led that direction by the previous.

E

Work session um and and I'm you know not trying to pretend that I know anything, but it in.

E

In my mind, generalization most of our metal fencing is black. I think that's pretty pretty.

E

Much a statement that works, maybe the last couple of decades we've gotten white anodized.

E

Aluminum and some green aluminum, but but our historic, certainly uh metal railings, were black.

E

So that seems like an appropriate thing. Although these kinds of tall, sparse entry, porticos appear.

E

In the early greek revival period in our town, it doesn't mean that these are, and I know they aren't.

E

But but when we see those they're frequently trimmed with wooden balusters.

E

And wooden rails and therefore painted the same color as the trim color of the building. That.

E

They're on typically again just making a ranked generalization and now my statement, I think I'm.

E

More comfortable being with them being white than being black, I don't think this is an appropriate.

E

Location for the upstairs black railing, it's just how I feel about it. Okay, um anybody else.

B

Feel strongly yeah this side of the table. I would agree that the weight would be less.

J

Of an impact- and it would be, it would fade into the rest of the facade. So I could agree to that.

I

All right are we yeah. I think we have a comment on to that point. uh First and foremost, we're just.

D

We're just trying to figure out where we're sitting on this okay, we might not have to comment.

B

At all, what would you say reagan? um I think it's fine either way if um the majority would like to.

C

See the white on just the deer street side and fine with that too. um I could amend my motion.

G

um I think, on the deer street side, the white is less impactful, I know normally black hides.

G

Like a shadow and white will stand out like a frame, um but I feel like on this side just.

G

From these pictures, given uh it's hard because the proposed front one shows it's still white.

G

So I can't it's hard to visualize that you know what I mean, um but I feel like.

G

It would just stand out like it doesn't on that side. It feels like it almost would yeah.

F

And then I I don't see where the black ties in on the deer street side and just okay. So.

B

What we have here is, it seems to be a majority, is, would you like to, would you like us to amend.

B

uh This proposal, so that we have white rails on the deer street side. I think I'd like to.

D

Clarify first and then property manager might want to make a statement as well.

D

um Previously, in our discussions, it was our understanding that color wasn't actually.

D

Stipulated by htc it was material and profile. It depends on on if it's a the color of the.

C

Actual thing, if it's painted surface you know you can repaint it a different color.

C

But if it's you know we can approve the actual, so you can paint them yeah. So we.

D

To that end, so I understand that a wood railing right for a certain period of.

D

Time in in portsmouth would have been built of wood and painted white. That's actually.

D

What you're, seeing there from the street side one of the things we originally talked about.

D

With nick, when we did, the site walk, was that it had sort of a low value, feel right.

D

And so a black railing symbolized indicates a metal railing, which is a higher value, feel overall.

D

And we feel gives a much higher curb appeal to the building.

D

And we'll we'll do more for that in that direction than a white railing would just to simply tie.

D

In the three balconies alone, so that's our stance. Do you want to add anything to that.

K

Thank you, josh uh kevin schultz with port city realty, I'm the representative for the market.

K

Wharf one condominium association um yeah, we would prefer the black railings and, as we are looking.

K

Around downtown in our vicinity, there's black railings right on deer street across the street.

K

And actually all of port walk is all black same things straight up all black.

K

And I notice it, it seems, like everybody was okay with black and then all of a sudden.

K

You're not, and so maybe somebody can explain why, because of feelings that you don't want black.

K

Rather than something else, but the I think the important thing is what josh hit upon we're, trying.

K

To bring a little bit of attention to the building because we have uh commercial businesses on the.

K

First floor, though, on both buildings, there's all commercial businesses and there's a black.

K

Railing now- and it really stands out and as more of a value on the building and so we're trying to.

K

As well as bring value to the building, and it will help those businesses on the first floor.

K

I I mean: is there anybody that is besides david, that is um really tied to the black railing.

B

Or white railings or any railing color I have, I have a strong preference for it, but I would not.

F

Yeah so I mean these are, these are pretty small.

C

Parts of the facade of this building, if they stuck out more, maybe you know I would feel.

C

More strongly, but it's really just kind of almost a juliet sort of application.

C

Well, I mean there are sides, it sticks out some, but not quite as much as the back. So I don't.

C

I don't think they're new buildings too, and I think it's not a make or break for me. Yeah no.

G

And I agree um that the black rails would add something because actually the front of that.

B

Building on deer street has always looked a little washed out too plain for me. I don't.

B

Know what it is, but I think I like rails, um so we have a. We have a motion. We have a second.

B

Public hearing I didn't I did not yet amend the motion to include white on the front, so it's.

B

Still black they're still black, okay, all right, all those. In fact, I need to make it uh too. Yes,.

C

This is conservation and enhancement of property values.

C

Because it works with the whole thing um and.

C

Relation to his historic and architectural architectural value of the existing structure, I.

C

Think it is part of the new you know for a 30 year old building. Thank you for finding those facts.

B

Okay, so uh all those in favor aye, aye, aye, aye and against opposed okay.

B

So you have your permission with your black rails. Thank you. Thank you very much.

B

So we have a request to post poems yeah. We have two: why don't you get those out of the way? Okay,.

B

Why don't I get these two requests to postpone, I'm going to read them and then we'll look for.

B

A motion: when are we doing it next month? Yes, indefinitely next month, okay, um work sessions.

B

We old request: this is number b or letter b request. A postponed work session requested.

B

By port harbor land llc owner for property, located at two russell street and zero deer.

B

Street wherein permission is requested to allow the construction of new freestanding structure.

B

Three to five story: mixed use, buildings, as per plans on file in the planning department.

B

Said properties are shown on assessor map 124 as lot 12 map. 118 is lot 28 and map 125.

B

As lot 21 and these lie within the character, district, 5, downtown overlay and historic.

B

District, we also have letter d, which is request to postpone work session by 445 marcy street llc.

B

Owner for property located at 445 marcy street, wherein permission is requested to allow the.

B

Construction of a new single-family residence with attached garage as per.

B

Plans on file in the planning department said: property is shown on assessor map 101 as lot.

B

3 lies within the general residence b and historic districts and I have a motion to postpone. Please.

G

Second, to submit second to may to may yeah, okay, all those in favor all right.

B

Yes, very good. Okay, I've got to catch my breath after that I gotta go down.

B

Work sessions; okay, so we're going to move down to the table down here.

B

So you have to give us a few minutes.

I

I should get extra pay for that. You know sure. Did you ever kill a bunch of 12 girls.

I

This is all this fun stuff.

I

B

C

Instructions for the microphone.

C

Yeah just well that this microphone um is a uh condenser universal lighting. Just.

B

Don't hit it with your papers, I know that's famous for that feel free to grab it yeah.

B

People on youtube are watching this from all over the world. Don't worry.

B

This work session is requested by one reigns: avenue: llc 31 rains, avenue, llc and 203 maplewood.

B

Avenue llc owners for property located at one range avenue: 31 reigns avenue, 203, maplewood avenue.

B

Wherein permission is requested to allow the construction of a four to five.

B

Story, mixed-use building and a five-story hotel as per plans on file in the planning department.

B

Said property is shown on assessor map 123 lot 14 map 123 lot 13 and map 123 lot, 12.

B

Lies within the character district, 4 in historic districts. So here we go.

B

Who's here just enjoy the afternoon good afternoon or good evening,.

L

uh Carla goodnight from cj, architects and evan tormey with north melbourne, welcome. Okay,.

L

uh So we um we've been working quite a bit on these buildings.

L

And we took to heart the comments from last time, which were traditional traditional traditional.

L

And work a little bit more on the massing, get some more organized massing. uh Give us some clear.

L

Direction on entry elements, and also you know, get a step back on north mill, 5 or a setback establish.

K

A little bit more of a presence on maplewood, I think yes right, organize that whole area.

L

So what we'd like to do is uh review those massing revisions that we've introduced.

L

And then review the more traditional elements, starting section one. Looking at the massing.

L

Updates two reviewing the mixed-use architecture in three reviewing the hotel design architecture.

L

Which we are hoping assemble all of the more positive elements from what we spoke about last.

L

At the last session, so looking at 1.1, we removed a considerable.

L

Chunk of the fourth floor, wrapping around that corner that is closest to north mill pond.

L

And brought up the massing on maplewood to be more of a unified, three-story piece.

L

And so that the blue areas that you're seeing there have been added and the green areas have.

L

Been subtracted, we've also introduced some strong vertical massing elements in the orange to pull.

L

Entry points into all three of these locations and the top floor of the hotel has also been.

L

Set back that view is those setbacks are further illustrated on 1.2, mostly from the hotel angle,.

L

1.3, you can really see that um significant impact that that setback on that on the fourth floor has.

L

Made on the mixed use building and how the unified three-story massing just joins that all together.

L

um And then the top floor of the hotel uh is set back towards uh on uh vaughn street. But the the.

L

Hotel piece closest to the water was already previously set back in the earlier scheme.

L

Looking at 2.0 some of our precedent images just to bring in an idea.

L

Of what it is that the finished building will look like for materials and so forth,.

L

And the garage folding garage doors we're really still looking into doing that.

L

In both um they're on 2.1, the next page- oh I'm sorry.

L

That's okay, we'll wait till you get there. I am there.

I

Flip ahead, there we go.

L

So this is a great view for really showing the difference from where we were and where.

L

We are now we have the penthouse step back from north mill pond. That was.

L

On the previous scheme um that has been further.

L

Enhanced by the fourth floor, step back from north mill pond and then everything has been given a.

L

Much lighter clapboard finish, uh which really sets it. Apart from the first three levels below.

L

Where we've introduced the traditional horizontal masonry, banding and brick core soldier detailing.

L

And then we also have the residential double hung, windows and traditional masonry, sills and.

L

Lintels and um then the entry massing piece and we're proposing there on that first floor along.

K

Maplewood, that's where those garage doors might be. Improvable doors might be in the storefront areas.

L

Large glazed sections on maple woods right on maplewood opening out to that. What are these.

B

Two uh on the left uh down towards the mill pond- that is the drive under uh garage list. So that's.

L

Just entirely open, it has a the gates in the front of it, and it has a valance which we have.

L

A close-up coming up of that um in a couple more pages. We have the close-up of that area.

L

So, moving on to 2.2, we carry that architectural style around the corner. uh Framing the.

L

Storefronts in masonry more traditional masonry finish, horizontal storefront banding carries.

L

Almost all the way around interrupted only by the vertical.

L

Entry massing and again these traditional elements carry through um and you know really have a a very.

L

I think a much more the portsmouth vibe. I hope that everybody's looking for a little bit there.

L

Then uh moving on to 2.3, you can see the the look of the recess balconies and.

L

The banding carrying around and simplified everything's simplified. We don't have a.

L

Lot of different things going on um someone at the last meeting had mentioned that the rhythm.

L

On the original elevation had made, it appear smaller and then certainly introducing the entry.

L

Massing breaks it up significantly into smaller chunks, so I think that was a positive change.

L

And then, looking across the water at 2.4 the whole that whole leg of the building.

L

Is much more subservient to north millpond than it was in our last uh last expression.

L

um And again you can see that that uh fourth floor stepped back all the way around and then.

L

Not unified with the the uh um other elevation and the penthouse again very light and clapboard sided.

L

So looking at 2.5 there is the um we hadn't looked at this in a while. So I wanted to make.

L

Sure that we brought that back in since we're looking at that 360 with the proposed view in.

L

The upper left corner of how the system would work and the the clearance is needed. It really doesn't.

L

Need a high clearance so we'll bring bringing a screen down, and then we also have the gate. Fronts.

L

um As part of that system, so the gates won't be yellow. No, no, yes, yeah, we're thinking that could.

K

Also be an opportunity, maybe for some sort of decorative paneling or something on there.

L

Which we can explore that in materials uh portion of the of the process.

L

L

Is there a page we want to be looking at or um I'll start on 2.1.

C

Okay, I think first of all, I think the massing changes you've made here are very positive. I think.

C

This section of the building, which you know yes, makes it step down towards the mill pond.

C

A little bit is in the right direction. I think what now what you've lost here, though, is.

C

The sense that this front part this lower front part of the building that that's on maple wood.

C

Is it's sort of its own smaller structure? Now it looks bigger because you've extended the.

C

Brick all the way down so now it looks like a bigger big building. That's on maple neighborhood.

C

So I don't know if there's a way to figure out how to I think that could easily be.

L

Accomplished with that, making that door that entry door more prominent in the transition.

L

Something there something like that to break it up, and I think that was what I really appreciated.

C

From the previous design is that you had this smaller mass that looked like its own little.

C

Building that was a little bit more appropriate to be right on on maplewood and now it's grown so.

C

Yeah, so that's my comment there. um Overall, I know that there's been this great big push to be.

C

More traditional and to simplify everything and that's what you heard a lot of and I see that's.

C

What you've done with it, and now, in my opinion, this now looks really boring so, which is what.

C

Happens- and it looks like you know, kind of the boring other things that keep going up because.

C

Everybody wants brick and everybody wants simple, so I'll, just throw that out there. Okay, thank you.

I

You're welcome martin yeah. I I can agree. That's one of the things when I looked at.

J

1.1, I go oh, a beautiful little building on the end there. You know it's nicely shaped. You.

J

Know a nice little and then, when you look at the rest of it, look at what we just looked at at 2.1.

J

Oh, it's got. It got kind of sucked into the rest of the masking, so yeah, I'm sure.

J

There's a way to distinguish that give us that beautiful little, you know the blue volume yeah.

J

And blue um yeah, it's a little it's a little thought I mean it could use.

J

Some it can use some features that that give it some expression um the parapet, if looking at 2.1.

J

I I think it looks kind of squashy there you get the top of the the head of the window. You.

J

Got it you got all of a sudden, it terminates. I think it needs a little bit of a parapet.

J

um Besides, I think it'll help that that section of clapboard.

J

At the top, that kind of looks like an afterthought and not as congruent as with.

J

The rest of the building I like just I think a parapet would help hide that a little bit.

J

And also the I'm going to say this about the hotel as well, that looking at 2.2 and the entrance.

J

These three, these multiple multiple story, gestures. I I don't think helped the project.

J

I think they're they're too big, for I. I think you can still have a.

J

Really interesting sense of entrance. If this thing is only one story high or you know just slightly.

J

Past the first story, you know, I think these are gestures that belong on bigger buildings.

J

And we have I'm sorry what page you want, I'm on 2.2 2.2! That's not the hotel, though I know, okay,.

A

And I think you can get away with a beautiful little cornish entrance. That's only one story: high.

J

And and you carry the rest of the facade across the um yeah yeah yeah, I just think these are.

J

Gestures that belong on much taller buildings and and and yeah even a projected canopy or something.

A

Right over that door, yeah just sort of break that horizontal band. To give it a little more presence.

K

um Also, your example, you that you show on two um the penthouse: it's got a it's got a much more.

J

Heroic sort of look to it, you know the overhangs, the stepped yeah and this project wouldn't.

J

Suffer if it had that I'll stop talking! Okay over here, mr chairman, um I'm.

E

I'm pleased with the overall sense of boringness that has introduced. um I.

E

Beat me with that. Stick um I I I. This is almost worn thin by having been done over and again.

E

But I still this- I can hear my words. This is what I wanted to see all along, so I mean.

E

This is what I I think I I'm boring. I I you I think we hit it. I think I am.

E

um I like what happened to the thing on the on on mapwood. It became a maplewood present thing.

E

I agree that there's something if we look at 2.1 and we look at the extreme left-hand side.

E

Or elevation of this little piece on maplewood it blends into the rest of the building and I'm.

E

Not trying to cut down on square footage, but if it broke, so that it looked like a.

E

It's as stand-alone three-story building which it does from the other two directions. I think.

E

That's what mr ryan was talking about and wore itself a little bit of roof, uh maybe something.

E

That provides a little counter point to the penthouse extension on the roof. I think that would.

E

Give us a maplewood avenue presence that up to this point, I think the project is lacked.

E

uh And and otherwise the brick, the separate windows, the rhythms, the horizontal band on the.

E

First floor, I'm a sucker for for boring, yeah yeah. This is the best I've seen on this site, any other.

B

Boring comments here um comments, mr chairman, um I I do like that. You guys have scaled this down. I.

G

Wouldn't mind, I think the most important part of the scale is on the maplewood side, because.

G

There are houses across the street there and then there's water views and stuff like that. So and.

G

Everyone's very sensitive, when they're driving in or out of town, you know that they can see the.

G

Water as quickly as possible um so be I mean I wouldn't mind that that three storied structure.

G

On maple wood, if that was only two or if you know that, would that would break it up from the rest.

G

Obviously, I know that's not the game that you guys want to play, um but.

G

Those are my biggest concerns is that this is the massing on that side, because that is.

G

You know you can see some of the images that it is a two-story house right across the street.

G

um And it's gonna end: it's the same way on the other side of the water and it's the same way.

G

On all three sides of that bridge, except for that one, so that's my major biggest concern. Okay,.

F

I continue to have overall concerns of the mass of the building, even though you've moved parts.

F

Of the mass from point a to point b, I still think it's a massive building for this location.

F

I think the view off of maplewood when you come across the river water and.

F

I think that view continues to be less than inspiring and it is the gateway it is. The.

F

First thing people see, and one of the features I liked about 111 maplewood- is that they.

F

Made that corner a an entrance, they put a park in front of it. They put a retail entrance in.

F

Front of it, they made it curved in a way that invited you in instead of poking out at you.

F

And this is a harsh corner that doesn't say welcome to portsmouth to me at all.

F

The garage doors read like garage doors. I I don't find anything welcoming about a garage door.

F

um They'll be up sometimes, but not eight, seven to eight months out of the years.

F

So you know what are we looking at in the harsh of winter, we're looking at garage doors.

F

I think that richard has a good point, that if you can possibly step back the.

F

Top floor of the third floor, section that that would.

F

um Be a little more respectful to the house across the way. If you look at 2.4, you can see, you can see.

F

That the relationship of that house and if it stepped down towards that, I would even be happy.

F

To see a little bit of increase to the penthouse above that to offset move it from here to there.

F

I'm I'm making all these comments.

F

Because I feel like I need to recognize the changes that you've made, but I am still going.

F

To repeat that, I think this building is too big for how close it is to the mill pond.

F

Thank you, okay. I'm just going to make a few comments. I, like some others, um appreciate the.

B

Way, you've gone with the traditional styling and I appreciate the windows with their granite lentils.

B

And window sills, I think that I you were going in a good way on the maplewood avenue side, but then.

B

Fell apart at the very end, but I realize that this is still.

B

Premature drawing here, but it is rather boring on the front um on maplewood avenue and.

B

If you could eliminate the third story on it, it might be something that would.

B

Win you a lot of friends. I know you know what you're doing is. You know you've shaved back.

B

Some of the fourth floor and you've lost a few square feet so you're making it up here.

B

Because, originally there wasn't this, this three-story building here.

B

I can see that the fourth floor and the penthouse there's something awkward about.

B

The two of them together, on top of each other, like that.

B

With the same material, I can't put my finger on it. I can just say that to me it looks awkward.

B

Maybe it's just because you've got it, you know white, you know you're trying to.

B

Show us that it is indeed lap siding and um because it doesn't have to be painted white.

B

It may be a proportion yeah. I think we have a proportion, adjustment and also you're.

B

I agree with martin that you don't need that three-story.

B

Entry on the reigns avenue side, I'm sure you can come up with something a little more creative.

B

Also on maplewood the two-story one: that's there I mean you're, just calling you know, you're taking.

B

A whole swath of the building and calling a vertical element. I don't like that. You know.

B

And here's a vertical element: um you should be able to give this some detail to give it um so.

B

That it, it amplifies the front door or you know something besides just being using darker brick,.

B

You know, that's all you're doing you got red, brick, you've got darker brick and we're supposed to.

B

Really appreciate the darker brick, I think it needs a little bit more work on that, but.

B

I don't mean to tear it all apart. I think in general that you are going in the right direction.

B

Okay, thank you. Should we continue. I was just going to say. I think we heard a lot about.

K

That maplewood making that a stronger presence- and I think we sort of assumed three stories.

K

Would sort of help make that I don't honestly, we weren't maximizing square footage? I think we've.

K

You know we've spoken before that we they didn't mind that yeah, but by zoning. There's.

K

30 000 square foot footprints allowed on these sites and we're half that.

K

And so you know, and we could have a hundred thousand square feet here and we're talking about.

K

Much less than that you're on my christmas card. So but I think those are some really good points.

K

About the entries and looking at detailing that, rather than bringing this massive three stories.

K

And what we can do to bring that to more of like a two and a half story, presence on maple wood.

K

Versus just the solid three, so I think there's some. I understand that that maplewood is it most.

E

Of maplewood much of maplewood is two-story buildings, and, and this third story is, is a.

E

Is not in conflict, but it's different than that. um On the other hand, those two-story buildings.

E

Aren't backed up against a four-story building or a five-story building, and, and I think that.

E

I'm trying to be as progressive in my thinking as I can, but I I think that that's that this.

E

Three-Story is gonna, read like a two-story compared to the building that it's against.

E

Rather than some you but you're, absolutely right about the other buildings, yeah yeah.

E

We should be, we are, I don't know, maybe we aren't being sensitive enough to the wood structures.

E

That are across the street from this, but when you think about this, five-story building, potentially.

E

Being constructed there, a two-story building in front of it's going to look like a canoe yeah.

E

I also, along with mr wykoff, had no heartburn but but wondered if that dark.

E

Brick stripe with just the two lone windows in it is not enough, particularly for a modern building.

E

For a building that that is trying to have some chops, some modern shops that that maybe this is.

E

The place that that really something as mr wyckoff says and I'm a big believer in front entryways.

E

uh I think that something more light could be done there. Maybe oh gosh.

E

This might be the place for the glass tower or something like that. Okay, I'm trying are you? Okay,.

E

Anyway, trying to be good here mirrored more.

K

If it was still three stories but just a little subservient to the rest of the building,.

E

I think that's there. I think that way would allow it, as mr ryan suggested it just to have its own.

G

Roots if it was if it was broken away, it looks like it's broken away on the right-hand side.

G

Yes, here and and I'm not saying that it needs, you know a whole bay or 10 12 foot.

E

Setback but but a bit of a break would allow it to have its own roof, as martin suggested.

E

I think a lot would happen there. Yes, yeah. I was wondering if um even some sort of.

C

Again, I am not a designer, um but you know a horizontal or some sort of datum point.

C

To reference, the height of the building across the street in there in the detailing somewhere.

C

Could, at least just like say: okay, we see you, you know that's right right. You know.

I

So one more, I would just add that I don't think it needs to lose a story. I think, given the width of.

J

It and the almost sense that it's its own, that we would hope it would become its own little building.

L

It's right, it's the right height um and I I want to choose a different word than boring. I mean you.

J

Could use that word, I think comfortable is, is a is an appropriate word and there's a I'm comfortable.

J

That this fits in that this is appropriate and that that's not a bad thing, and I, I think.

J

It's on the right track as well. Well, thank you. I think they're boring and I'm going to stick to it.

L

Well, I think we talk about that quite often where we, you know, swing all the way. This way, and we.

L

Swing all the way that way- and you know we find that happy such a subjective term, you could be.

B

You know it could be because your stomach's upset- and you know this is more hold the thought I know.

I

I I I would say that you know I think david you mentioned it. Maybe three stories is all right.

B

On that front it it's not overpowering. That's that's not what I was trying to say that the.

B

Maplewood is not overpowering, it just doesn't it's. It's boring and it's.

J

Set back from the street a little ways too, as well yeah helps that would help.

B

Okay, do you want to start at 2.5 sure, meander forward, all right.

C

Yeah another 20 minutes.

B

Where are we, we are on 3.0 uh on 3.0, we've picked up on a slightly more exciting detail.

L

uh Which has the brick texture a little bit more modern um element and then some of the.

L

Proportions of the building on the lower left, I think, are work very well. So if you flip to 3.1, you.

L

Can see that we've introduced that texture at the first floor, wrapping it around the hotel building.

L

Introduced an overhang on the uh setback top floor, uh the entry massing frames that were.

L

Somewhat appreciated at the last meeting have been refined a little bit more for um for this round.

L

And then the corner uh element has picked up in those same materials to reflect that.

L

We did introduce the brick more traditional, horizontal masonry, banding sort of folded into to.

L

That uh as well for just to blend the two together um looking at 3.1, we certainly have sense of entry.

L

uh Coming down vaughn street, we don't did not take this one all the way to the top of that form.

L

So I think that reads: okay and looking at 3.3. I do really like how these eroded corners and these.

L

Little areas of brick have been stripped away to identify certain volumes here and then we we.

L

Re configured the larger entrance for the vehicular drive under that is facing north milpan.

L

Again as a more symbolic, larger element and the texture continues wrapping around so could I just.

B

um Ask you: how how do you, how did you get them to this on 3.3, you have over the garage. You have your.

B

Vertical elements going up there now now you've got me on your architectural talk here, but on well.

B

Say 3.2 the entry of the hotel it stops on the fourth floor. It doesn't go up right, it's more in.

L

Scale as in keeping with the smaller pedestrian entrance doors, as opposed to the larger vehicular.

L

Drive lane opening on the first floor, so sort of scaled it up to accommodate that opening.

L

And then scaled the whole proportion system down proportionally.

L

To be working for the pedestrian entrance.

L

And 3.4 shows you the image across the water which is was represented on 3.3 in more in context.

L

And 3.5 gives you a close-up of the horizontal banding and the textured bass with the recessed.

L

Elements and then the vertical brick piers and the big frame, strong entry frame 3.6 shows the.

L

Elevation from north millpond and the corner element uh breaks apart, the massing on the.

L

Right from the massing on the left and the massing on the left is also a story lower.

L

And then 4.0 is the floor plans for reference. So we have the this section. We don't need to really.

L

Review, but it helps you to if you want to study it in greater detail. We've provided the floor.

L

Plans in uh section 4 and the building and zoning as well for reference. But we don't need to read.

L

That verbatim, I just want to point out on 3.6. I want everyone to look at the water. It's beautiful.

B

It's a king tide. Well, so I live on the humble north mill pond and I see this king tide.

B

Three or four times a month now you know I see this and I want everyone to look.

B

At it and say: oh yeah, okay, let's have comments on the hotel. Please.

I

Martin, can we go first um again, I I agree. This is going in the right direction and.

J

It's comfortable.

J

Again, I I'm not. I don't feel really great about these large gestures that.

J

They go up, they go across and they come down in the same fashion. There's no there's no interest.

J

In them, there's they're big gestures, they belong on bigger buildings, I mean if it went up and.

J

Then it corbett out slightly- and you know that that the that the columns were thinner than the.

J

The horizontals and that there's some detail and interest to it. You know I should I could warm up.

J

To it the same thing with the the massing or the the the language over the garage opening.

J

I just if you're gonna do that. I just prefer that you have just a beautiful band across that first.

J

Story and bring bring the rest of the language across um also.

J

If you look at 3.1 that corner element, that's sort of very modern.

J

I like that, I think, that's very, very appealing. There's a lot of texture to it. A lot of interest.

J

And I just don't, I really don't see it appear anywhere else in the rest of the building.

E

Does isn't it repeated in an inside corner.

J

Well kind of but there's I think, there's some not to the same impact and little there's some.

J

Detailing that's not appearing in that um that it would be great to see um it does.

C

Seem like it's out of nowhere, yeah and I'd like to see it repeated, but I I think you.

J

Took away our inspirational drawing there, you know the one you presented that one time and.

J

What happened? Where did that inspirational? Drawing that uh building go from remember the one.

I

I mean you followed it and a lot of the brick work and a lot of uh the things of the.

K

Building yeah the red with the sort of fourth floor, yeah, the one you sent us the next day.

A

Okay, we're not showing them that anymore, there's a little box. Yes, oh yes, yeah yeah,.

D

This isn't even close how soon they forget that one's very traditional yeah, but I see that lauren.

J

Appearing here and- and I like that- and it's great I just I'm- not crazy about the the opening over.

J

The uh garage and the the main entrance with that little door that that kind of is off to.

J

The side that storefront is it's just like saying it before I've seen it in a thousand places and.

B

You know the sad part about the system uh nick before we go on any further. Is we can't save these.

B

Things you know if I wanted to look at something from last from march. You actually came in february.

I

I couldn't say that they're on the they're on your ipad yeah, are you importing them? You can.

A

Also export it to your own laptop, oh okay, um yes! Well! I have a few questions. So what color is this.

C

Pant is this greenish gray paneling like what is that really it's a charcoal the fifth floor and.

K

Like yeah sort of a charcoal, okay dark zinc, all right um yeah. I know these renderings, the colors.

C

Different colors on different screens, yeah and right. It looks green, green.

C

Yeah, I'm just um I want to see how that you know that actually looks in real life.

C

Against the brick I mean, is it the similar is to what's on the ac hotel, I mean I'm just trying to.

K

The this is a much darker. Okay, like the ac, the general body of that intel is a light, and I think.

K

It's light: zinc is the luca bond color, which is very plain, very light yeah. um I know like.

K

I wasn't in those meetings looked that closely here and it was you know they like the contrast.

K

Between the the dark charcoal and the light, so this is more the dark charcoal and there are.

K

Some textured versions and certainly getting the materials there's a lot of different view.

C

Yeah, I know that you always do, but I'm just curious as to what your.

C

What what this is intending um and then the same with the the light color so is that a similar.

C

Material just a different color, yeah, okay, sure, okay, so you've forgotten yes, yeah there. It is.

A

Suddenly, um I I still think we've got some ways to go on this building.

C

The just the contrasting colors and and the design and everything if the brick maybe is too speckled.

C

And I don't know, there's a lot going on with the colors of what you've got up here so far.

C

The I don't mind as much these vertical elements, although the entrance over the garage really.

C

Reminds me of like a 1920s deco facade on like a courthouse or something or like you know, a big.

C

Post office building or something it seems very out of place with.

C

um What the rest of the building is, so um I don't I don't know, maybe it just needs different.

C

uh Materials or detailing or something like that, um but I am you know, I'm still kind of like.

C

On this, it's the the I would love to see you explore.

C

I think um the different materials and details okay, so we've got three other folks over here.

E

I'll just throw you know a point in.

E

I guess I I think when I see that when I look at this building, I I imagine myself.

E

Standing in the front courtyard of it as the street swings around and and uh I wonder.

E

Which I don't get from this, how it's going to play in its neighborhood this build this building right.

E

Here, at least this facade of the building is going to live inside of your modern island neighborhood.

E

And the other side of the building on the mill pond is an employee sound like my mother,.

E

Telling me that the hair will grow out, don't worry about the haircut you just got, but.

E

But but the other side of the building, we only see from further up maplewood avenue or further out on.

E

Market street extension, it's a longer shot, much longer shot. This is the side that you're going to.

E

Be right in front of the other one's a long shot, unlike the maplewood avenue facade of the previous.

E

Discussion about 3.2 here this one, I'm looking at 3.1- oh okay, uh but certainly 3.2 is is, is.

M

Demonstrative of that more and more in this little space, in which case I think, you're.

E

Not to jump on this thing, but I'm not inspired by your arch openings right. I like the identity of a.

E

Doorway no question about it if this is what it takes. If this is what that means, then it's.

E

It's required, I think you need to know where the door is on something like this. uh The one on the.

E

Other side seems less of a problem to me, because I believe that the view is much different and it's.

E

It does something to also mask the unnatural size of your automotive entry. There.

E

So I I guess I I can understand that this one seems a little.

E

I don't know a little and not even jetsons, just it seems a little bit stark and large.

E

The corner with the new material, it does a lot to break this thing into smaller pieces.

E

And I think that's a good thing: uh it's we're in a busy little neighborhood here.

E

I kind of, as mr ryan suggested I kind of wonder if there could be another one of those.

E

Somewhere, if that isn't another useful tool for another location on this building, I'm not.

E

While I certainly can appreciate you wanting to divide this thing up, which has been.

E

Somewhat successful on the back of the bathroom water, water side, market street side.

E

um But but uh I wonder that blank unfinished you didn't get to the brick veneer on the.

E

Those concrete vertical columns- I wonder if that isn't something that could take a little.

E

Bit more attention, yes, and I agree, I think this notched out corner this corner eroded away, um has.

L

Been the one of the more successful sort of peel aways that we've done and I think a lot of that's.

L

Attributed to um the windows are really breaking away from that pattern and I think that, but it's a.

B

Staircase right and the detail that horizontal detailing, where they sort of another shadow.

B

That is the that same. You know material on the back side, but I think that could use more detail.

K

As martin suggested on that side and then also yeah, there might be another location.

K

Where that works well, margo rich somebody. Yes, I am. I do like those breakaway corners. I like that.

G

The glass you know it's almost like it's not there, it's just you can see right through it.

G

um I will agree with reagan on the part that you drive under on the um it just looks like a big.

G

Federal building it looks like a big, you know, brutalism. um I have been spending a lot of time.

G

Saving some federal buildings in town with some brutalism on them, but I don't know if I need more.

G

um But yeah that genetic is like you know what is in here, like a cia or something.

G

It just it has this like welcoming hotel yeah, I don't know we didn't do anything fun, because.

I

We can't you know because we're serious um but yeah. I think it could be more fun. I don't know I.

G

um I, like you, know that I, like dave's, point of having an entrance, um but I think yeah. It should.

G

Be celebrated, it should be fun, it should be. You know, welcoming, should be special, should be.

G

You know why go into that door not instead of another building store. um I don't know.

G

Needs balloons, all those things with the blowers. No, I mean you know, I just.

G

Think of like frank jones, they think of like um you know some golden lions or no.

E

um Bitcoin margot, besides the fact that it's too big, what else do you think about it.

F

I agree with rich: I think that the brutal effect of this entrance, if I were driving along market.

F

Street across the water, I would wonder: what's going on over there, you know what what is this.

F

Trying to draw attention to and then if I found out that it was just a garage entrance, I think.

F

That that that you would use that gesture that big grand gesture.

F

Or the entrance of a garage, um I also think it breaks up in not a good way.

F

The left side from the lower right side and then, when you see the view.

F

You see it a little bit in 3.5 and again in 3.6 the because you've continued the white around the.

F

Corner at the top, you see this sort of thing that doesn't really relate to anything else or right.

F

Up up there on the roof, it looks almost like a conden like a shield of a utility.

F

Area and you think what what's going on when you look at it from that direction, I like.

F

I like this white corner of the interior corner. I like the one on the front. It is less developed.

F

I agree with the comments of the framing of the front door. um I think.

F

It's important to have something that says: here's the front door, but this is.

F

Very delicate, um but if I think in my mind, if I made it heavier, would that be good.

F

I don't think it would, because of the size. The scale of this particular facade so.

F

If it were much shorter, if it just framed the one story around the door, maybe if it had some.

F

If it had some true art deco elements like carving and texture to it, then that might be interesting.

F

But you've gone with a very traditional brick and fenestration, and so that makes it difficult to.

F

Bring in that sort of art deco element, it's kind of you can't have both or maybe you could figure.

F

Out a way to have both, I, like the simple white corners that you've put um on the corners of these.

F

Buildings right they're, very understated, but they do make a difference in defining the buildings.

F

Not the not the one with the windows, but the little ones, they're very simple, um but I think.

F

They do make a difference. um I wondered why we didn't include one on the broken corner.

F

It may be too much, but I'd be interested to see what happens if you end up with too many stripes.

L

On that a little bit yeah, you sort of have to see it to decide. Do I have too many stripes or.

F

Two keystrokes right: okay, so I'm just going to get the last hit in here up the entrance.

B

So I'm not saying they have enough room because of the second story windows. To really give that.

B

An art deco look, although I would like to see it. I would like to see that if you're going.

B

To have this traditional style building that you can't just get by with a rectangle over the door.

B

And and call that design, I think that it needs to have something. You know, I'm not asking for.

B

Park avenue with the doorman, but I'm asking for something else. If it's going to be modern,.

B

Then um you know get some dramatic glass up there and some other elements uh that people use.

B

um For you know modern entry canopies, but um you know just a rectangle like that and um I agree I'm.

B

Not sure you know how many are against it, but um it just doesn't make any sense to have that little.

B

uh White line go all the way up to the and then stop and then go across, and uh is this cornice.

B

That's on the brick underneath the fifth floor. Is that some kind of brick element or is that metal.

B

um You're up at the fourth floor, and it goes all the way around his hand, there's a brick.

L

With a metal it has the metal cap flashing yeah, it would have a flat metal flashing.

B

Yeah so then that's not anything that would be.

B

You know it wouldn't match any of these corner details that you've.

B

You've gotten um I'm just trying to think if you look at um well 3.3 and especially 3.4.

B

When you've got that that white um vertical element, it's four windows in.

B

On the left hand, side that just makes no sense to me whatsoever. It's just like. Well, here's a white.

B

White column going up for no reason it doesn't support, doesn't do anything it doesn't tie in.

B

With anything else, so um you know as far as design goes. I just don't like that, um and I.

B

I can't really see why that your designers have really tried to accent the garage doors.

B

I think somebody else said that it's a garage door, I try and kind of hide it and just forget about it.

B

You know forget about it and um and and you're building. You know the basic shape. I realize it.

B

Doesn't have a mansard roof, but you know it could it looks sort of like that, so it sort of has a.

B

19Th century industrial look which is appropriate. You know at that particular location and.

B

I think that you know that might be the way to go to myself yeah. I was going to say the that.

C

Top floor that fifth floor, where you say it set back, it doesn't really look very set.

C

Back it looks like it's on the same plane and you've got that that brick sort of.

H

Banding cornice type thing just breaking it up, um so I wonder if.

C

How much you've actually set it back and could it be um an element that yeah you make into a.

C

Man's artist, you could have an angle to it or something like that to give it a little bit of.

C

um Relief or yeah or shape um up at the top, so I just want to make sure I'm clear really talking.

G

About this setback, like the difference right, it's like barely yeah. It's only that right. It's.

L

A more like an eight-inch setback, we're trying to use these setbacks step back terms correctly.

G

B

um You know, but in general uh I feel that the the building, in essence, you know, has possibilities and.

B

um Like I said, the 19th century look is not a bad thing to go for, but no you know so you've.

B

Wanted to put some of these modern elements on it, I don't know just they're just stuck on. I think.

B

That's it for me. Does anybody else want to get any other licks in before we open it up to the public.

B

Okay, so if anyone in the public would like to speak about reigns avenue, please come up and.

B

Give your name.

N

My name is susan steri. I grew up here in portsmouth. I came here tonight just to see how the.

N

Historic district committee works my only comment about because I haven't done any research on it.

N

um I am co-chair of the cemetery committee that portsmouth just started and so we're in the middle.

N

Right now of getting a landscape architect involved and redesigning the property around.

N

The edges of north and union cemeteries- we've already, you know a blue ribbon committee redid, the.

N

Walls and they came out really nice now our next project we're going to be cleaning the cemetery so.

N

It's not going to be just this gray spot sitting there as a matter of fact, may 7 7th.

N

We'll be starting our first cleaning. So what looks like black blocks sitting over in the cemetery.

N

Aren't going to be sparkling white but they're not going to just be riding by.

N

Seeing black blocks there and then the edge um plan that we have we'll tear down fences.

N

That are there weed out the trees put in new plantings um and bring it back to an appropriate.

N

Look for the time, which was the first grave in there was probably.

N

Right 1800, we haven't researched all of them, so I guess mike I didn't come to talk about this.

N

But when you started talking about on that side of the street, that's what I've been working with.

N

And they are houses that are age appropriate back to the 17th and 1800s to me, it feels like you just.

N

Divided you sectioned out the neighborhood. So now we have this side of the road is.

N

Maybe it is industrial, I don't know. I grew up here and I don't remember seeing a lot of brick.

N

Buildings down in that area, especially when they tore down all the houses on on the hill there.

N

And now then you have this opposite side that is going to remain historic, um looking and feeling.

N

Which is also part of the attraction why people come to portsmouth now, especially genealogy.

N

So I want to point out too that north cemetery is of the national registry.

N

Of historic places and that we just got the uh union cemetery uh approved, so that's going.

N

To go on to the new hampshire state registry, and eventually we'll probably, we will go for all five.

N

Cemeteries to be on the national registry, so I I guess what attracted me was when you kept saying.

N

You know the look from coming down, but what's the look from the other side, I I don't get it because.

N

You know most of the our houses, historic houses are, all um you know, bored and or.

N

Stick built and I don't mind the brick, but I just think we're we're going to end up with a city.

N

That's going to have like in boston all these tall buildings around and all these historic places are.

N

Going to be these little pockets like parks in our city, and I don't think that's what we really want.

N

But I'm just putting it out there as a perspective, I'm not against progress whatsoever. So.

N

But the look is it just feels like tall buildings sitting in the middle of portsmouth, so.

N

So that's it! I just wanted to let you know that we are working on.

N

The cemetery across the street, which is part of the aesthetics of the whole neighborhood.

N

Itself, um I just want you to know that I have a couple great great great grandparents over there.

B

In northern in the north- and I I want you to be careful when you're cleaning.

B

Stone well come on over, uh we'll make, may 7th is going to be there we'll have all the equipment.

N

And one other quick question is the setback, because I have a degree in environmental policy.

N

On the on the water side, there is the and none of that's been I'm sure you did all the the studies.

K

There wasn't any um yeah, we've kept the building out of the hundred foot 100 foot, but even any soil.

N

Tested where the building's going so it's not considered wetland even at that point in time.

K

No, it's almond wetland flagged and yeah. I assumed that, but I didn't know there wasn't how far in.

N

Because, as you spoke about the rising tides all the time, a matter of time before that's just gonna.

N

I mean not in the next 25 years, but going down the road yeah when it's really high. It's very.

B

Easy to get on a canoe to the back of the cemetery, you know you don't even have to climb over rocks.

B

You can just go right up against them and step onto the I've been down in the flats back there.

N

Because that whole wall has to be redone, so I have pictures of the fog, the wall. That's.

N

Been falling down and how close the graves are to some of the bare erosion spots. Good luck with the.

B

Dep state of new hampshire also well, thank you all right. Thank you. Anybody else.

B

I haven't seen her before.

O

Paper, uh elizabeth browder property owner 159, mcdonald street, so the heights of the condo.

O

Building on the maplewood ave side are supposed to be from the maplewood af bridge to about where.

O

Their parking lot is one story 20 feet, then, if you it changes and it goes from one story- 20 feet.

O

To a maximum of two stories or 35 feet, so you get to pick you don't get to have both you get to pick.

O

And that goes around the corner onto rain's abs, so it's I call it the yellow section so.

O

The yellow section starts right at the parking lot right where that building is and then goes right.

O

Around the corner on rayne's ass, so these heights were chosen so that whatever was built there would.

O

Blend in not only with the homes across the pond, but also across the street, so drop dropping this.

O

Structure in the front by one story and keeping maybe some of the architectural characteristics.

O

But avoiding it being too busy would would be helpful. The height on the.

O

Hotel on the corner by 3s art space should drop down to three stories.

O

When 53 green street was presented when ac hotel was presented and 145 maple would have.

O

They were asked to drop down to the three stories by 3s art space and I don't think.

O

They deserve to have any special dispensation, because if you look at the massing and there.

O

It is right there you can see. 3Sr space is technically maybe one and a half maximum two.

O

Stories and then you've got this five-story bohemic next to it. So my thought on that was.

O

Where the lines are very convenient now for me, but where that angle is and around to the other.

O

Line that goes down on the back side that whole area could drop down to three stories.

O

After listening to you talk about the garage doors, I agree with that, but there are garage doors that.

O

Are available that don't look like garage doors they're like folding doors, there's some in at.

O

The thirsty moose in dover- and there are also some over by chinberg's building by pick and pay.

O

And they fold like accordion doors, they have brown frames and when they're open, you don't see.

O

Them and when they're closed, they look a little less like garage doors. um I liked in the the sad.

O

Thing is: is that you have to open up three or four screens on your computer to be able to see.

O

All the different things, so I looked at march and I looked at january and then I looked at this.

O

And one of the things I did like with the black kind of pergola type things.

O

That they had on the top floor, I didn't like them on the lower.

O

Front on on maplewood ave because it made it too busy, but I thought those might be helpful to kind.

O

Of break up all the brick, those black- I don't know what they're called, but they have a name. I'm sure.

O

um I would love to see both buildings next to each other, see how it's whited out. So you can't.

O

Really see what's going to happen visually when you have all that brick going down there, I would.

O

Suggest brown brick because the building across the street is orange and wood and 3s art space is.

O

Kind of a rust color, I'm not sure what you call that and the other thing I thought about.

O

Is how how stark and how they remind me of an electric company in the you know.

O

Early 1900s and what's missing, is anything round everything's straight so like even that doorway.

O

If you got rid of all that stuff everybody's been complaining about and made an arch over the door.

O

And it would actually break that up in a way to make it a little softer. The buildings are just so.

O

Straight and they're straight vertically and horizontally, there's nothing.

O

To break it up, so my thought would be to add some rounding.

O

In it to kind of make it a little softer, so that's my two cents. Thank you very much.

I

Do we have anybody online.

B

Does that just faded away no they're there, but not for this.

B

Okay, very good! Well, I hope you got something I did I did. We went a number of different directions.

L

I think that was very helpful yeah all right, so are you coming back next month? Yes, yes,.

C

Commission to continue, second, all those in favor all right. Thank you. Thank you.

E

Are they going to get the award for the toughest.

I

I would not read it all and just say: 92 plus of three working step is.

B

Okay, before we do uh one market square, I just wanted to uh say that we missed f uh request.

B

To postpone and uh nick is uh letting me just say, 92 pleasant street working, stiff properties.

B

So if anybody could make a motion to postpone that until next month, so moved second, I thank.

I

You very much um okay, but I have to read this work session requested by one market square llc, owner.

B

For property located at one congress street and zero high street, wherein permission is requested.

B

To allow renovations to an existing structure repair and upgrade building facades along congress.

B

And high streets and new construction to an existing structure replace the rear shed.

B

Edition with a new four to five story edition, as per plans on file in the planning department,.

B

Said property is shown on assessor map 117 as lot 14 and 15 lies within the character district.

B

4 character, district 5, downtown overlay and historic districts, and who is here to present this.

I

I don't think they're here, I think they're here I want congress. Let's go to the next item. They're.

A

Trying to assemble the team. Okay, some people are missing tonight. Okay, so we're uh going yeah out of.

B

Order now we're going to go to e, which is a work session requested by 129 state street llc owner.

B

For property located at 129 state street, wherein permission is requested to allow renovations.

B

And new construction to an existing structure, which is removal of shutters addition of dormers.

B

Roof and siding changes as per plans on file in the planning department said property is.

B

Shown on assessor map 107 as lock 47 lies within the character district, 4 and historic district.

B

Who is to present this hi good evening? Shane forsley with hampshire development corporation.

P

On behalf of the owners of 129 state street,.

B

I think the microphone should pick you up now.

B

Engineered it very well, where, again, you have to be careful of that little boy, all right.

P

Well, thank you for having us again um and thank you for coming out a few weeks ago.

P

To visit the site and look at a few things that were topics of discussion, since we last.

P

Met as you'll notice on page two, we've got an itemized list of our our proposed alterations.

P

To the existing structure, as well as the addition of of some components to the structure.

P

So the first item of discussion, the owner, would like to remove the decorative window. Dressings.

P

Which we looked at in our field visit, which we can look at as we progress through the drawings.

P

Additionally, we'd like to replace the non-historic windows with period appropriate.

P

Anderson windows, which you'll see in the last half of the package, we've got some cut sheets for you.

P

We'd like to add limestone seals and headers to the window openings to match the banding.

P

Shown on state street facade, you'll notice the addition of two skylights.

P

On the state street portion of the roof and a shed dormer on the shafe street portion of the.

P

Roof- and we took some of your your comments and incorporated those to make sure that the.

P

Windows and stud pockets were appropriately sized, which you'll see in the details. We've continued.

P

To refine our design of the oculus on the main ridge of the roof, which we can look at in detail.

P

We've added a hip roof to the rear portion of the modern structure. We show a pediment option.

P

In the elevations for the main entry door- and we discussed a few things on site- which we can.

P

Talk about further, whether or not we want to.

P

Maintain the existing impediment or look at slightly redesigning it.

P

We intend to replace the existing asphalt roofing with synthetic slate.

P

We've provided some cut sheets at the back end of the package, for you.

P

As shown in the elevations uh we've reconfigured, the pedestrian and vehicular entries off shafe.

P

Street to better suit the use of the space, we would like to replace the existing siding, which.

P

Is vinyl with a period-appropriate collaborator composite you'll, see that in the details and.

P

The addition of some exterior lights at the pedestrian entries garage entries and.

P

Flanking the balconies shown up on the second floor of the edition.

P

If you jump ahead to page three nick you'll see an artistic rendering of.

P

What we propose to do with the property at state street.

P

You'll notice um on the state street facade and the facade that faces uh the j smith park for.

A

Some reason that maybe didn't scan, um we have it, you do it go to the previous page previous.

I

Page, what do we have here? Oh sorry, yeah yeah- is that it yes yeah, I stapled mine out of order.

P

So you'll see the removal of the shutters in the window, dressings on the state and.

P

I'm going to call it the the garden facade. Additionally, you'll see the limestone headers.

P

And seals added new windows you'll see the oculus poking through the leaves on the tree as well as.

P

Some reconfiguration of the existing addition at the back of the garden area.

P

On next sheet, you'll see some more change.

P

The reconfiguration of the garage door and the pedestrian entry essentially flip-flop.

P

There's addition of windows dormers and a new roof in between the.

P

The original building and where the addition now sits, where you'll see a small hip, dormer.

P

Coming off as well.

P

Jumping ahead to a 2.1, which should be page, nine um you'll see the existing and proposed.

P

um Elevations um on the left, that is shafe street, a two point, one chance again: okay got it.

I

We're not we don't jump that quickly, I'll slow down yeah there we go jumping so on the left.

P

You'll see the shave street facade a few items to note, um starting at the top uh seven foot.

P

Diameter oculus, with a six inch, reveal above the ridge lead coated, copper side. Walls on that oculus.

P

You'll notice we've added a shed dormer on shafe street, which you've seen in the previous.

P

Packages we've properly spaced it with a double two by uh stud pocket in between the windows.

P

Both on the shed dormer and on the mulled windows above the pedestrian entry on the right hand, side.

P

We expect anderson, e-series windows and you'll notice, lanterns or lights. I should say.

P

Above the garage doors on the right hand, side the state street facade, obviously the window dressings.

P

And pleaks have been removed, you'll also notice, two skylights on the original building three.

P

Feet by four feet: low profile, fixed skylights, there's a cut sheet at the rear of the package.

P

And you'll see the new limestone, sills and headers added.

P

There's a note on there: there is a metal rail proposed on the balcony in the modern edition.

P

As well as some metal paneling in the lower portion, which we propose to enclose.

P

And I'll stop there and let you guys take a look and ask any questions.

I

Where is this metal gear still on a2 right, yes, 82.1 2.1? um I would love to. I wasn't able to.

C

Make the sidewalk, so I would love to have anybody talk about it sure.

F

I couldn't make it well. um It was obvious that at one time it was a plain.

B

Building that we did notice that it it the bricks had been painted or coated or covered with white.

B

Wash or limestone whatever that they might have used in those days to cover the bricks and that.

B

Went underneath the decorative elements on the windows, so the one window that he had removed. You.

B

Could see that this color went down? There were no line, obviously no limestone. You know lintels.

B

Windowsills and stuff like that, so it's my guess by looking up and down the street, we couldn't.

B

Help but notice that the large buildings that are going down state street the large.

B

Three and a half story apartment or whatever they were at the time, tenement buildings, whatever one.

B

Of them that used to be owned by mr dodge and that those buildings had that type of.

B

Element over their windows, decorative elements, apparently on those buildings, they were.

B

Some kind of brownstone or limestone- or we don't know, but they were some.

B

Sort of stone- and you said that mr dodge had actually recreated one out of wood.

B

So uh the feeling is that um what we were talking about is that that these things were added as a.

B

Way of upgrading the building um in the 1860s or whatever they were attempting to bring the.

B

Building up very similar to what happened to the buildings next to the athenaeum that were.

B

Turned into three-story buildings with large windows. So um that's about all that I could.

B

Say about that, I guess and the there's no way of telling what might have been around the door.

B

Apparently it's shown as a roof at one time back in 1906 or whatever. I don't.

B

Know if that's available or anyone to drag out of their memories, but.

B

That we don't know what that originally was. If it was anything at all, so that's all I've got to.

B

Say one of the things that I was concerned about in mr white cost correct. That was my all of that.

E

Was my observation too? One of the things I was concerned about was we were removing one part of.

E

uh Massive renovation to the building uh because it didn't suit our early 19th century, aesthetic.

E

um In leaving other parts that were other parts of that massive reef, definition of the building.

E

There is no particular reason to believe that the raking trim, that's on the courtyard side or the.

E

Doorway itself are part of the decorative window treatment moment. There's no, there's nothing that.

E

Ties those elements together that says that they have to go and therefore come and go together.

E

I don't believe, there's any rational reason to tear this woodwork of the cornice in the doorway.

E

Out just to satisfy some other kind of I'm not certain aesthetic, but to say that.

E

These these elements that were put on the windows certainly appear like they came by themselves and.

E

And your opinion of that is, is you know, but but there's clearly the building had a history.

E

Before they were put on, and the only other thing that I forgot to mention too, is on the.

B

State street side they don't fit on the second floor, so what they have done is they took.

B

About four or five inches off of these height of these elements and.

B

Shrunk them down so that they could fit with that limestone horizontal banding.

B

You almost don't notice it, but you do.

I

Thank you, yep.

B

So, martin, you want to start and comment on this.

J

You know I I think this is progressing. I didn't go to the. I wasn't able to go to the walk either.

J

I have noticed that some of the comments about the fenestration.

J

On the smaller wood framed area, still the same.

J

Even though some comments were saying that they needed to be.

J

You know that needed to be reconfigured and or separate some of the windows and things.

J

Like that, um that's I'll let somebody else address. That's probably somebody.

J

Else's comment: um I was hoping to see more of a detail really oculus. uh It seems.

J

My comment last time, it just seems like a piece of mechanical equipment up there and there's.

J

I expected to see maybe a slightly a slight dome or something- and I don't see it- it's not.

J

It's not completely wrong, it is your your approach to it is to sort of kind of make it you don't.

J

Want to make a gesture, you just want it to fade. In the background, I I guess that's acceptable.

J

So all in all, I'm comfortable with how this is proceeding um I'll, let others talk.

B

Others talk, yes, um others I'm another. um Thank you chairman.

G

I agree with martin, I think, I'm pleased with how this is going. um I was able to make the sidewalk.

G

Shane was nice to show us, you know what was under the those headers there.

G

And yeah, if we don't determine that these shutters and stuff like that was all.

G

Historic part of the building, then I don't see any reason why um we will miss them.

G

I do agree with martin that oculus could be more. You know um more of a spectacle, more yeah. You know.

G

If you have like you know, if it's not just the uh you say, there's going to be copper around it.

G

Lead coated cobra cover, um but yeah more of a statement. I guess more of a. I think it's super.

G

Fun and it's it's exciting, it's I I think anyone would um you know it would be cool to notice that.

G

Yeah, I have nothing to add. Oh okay, I think the um changes to the new uh edition in the back, the.

C

L um are totally fine they're still, you know the design is still very appropriate for the historic.

C

District, um it's new construction. It's you know. I I think it's very acceptable. um I actually think.

C

That the I think minimizing the oculus as much as possible, is actually preferable um because.

C

You know if it was its original if we knew that was the original design, and you know.

C

It was really like an original element that we were replicating. Maybe that would be something.

C

But I think that just just the hint of it is fine to see if you don't see it, it's fine. I.

C

I don't think that it should be a showpiece to this building, um but- and I think the changes.

C

Are also knowing the history of this building are appropriate to the building. um You know it was.

C

As as far as we can tell originally a workshop of some sort, it wasn't a grand residence so keeping.

C

It very simple you know having the simple headers and and sills and all that stuff, um even the.

C

Simple doorway, I I think that's fine, that's all in keeping with the building, so I I don't have.

C

Any real issues with anything, that's what I'm trying to say: okay and david, we haven't heard.

E

um Thank you, mr chairman. uh uh The the oculus, I don't know the oculus.

E

To have ever been anything extravagant in the 19th century, early 19th century, they.

E

Would have built a belvedere if they wanted something extravagant a lantern. These are to.

E

My knowledge there was no great amount of metal work around them because they didn't have a lot of.

E

At this time decorative metal work, it was another 50 60 years before that came about.

E

They certainly had little opportunity to shape glass, um and so these were relatively innocuous.

E

To my knowledge, to my knowledge, um certainly the reg fragments of any that I've seen have.

E

Been rendered to that point over time, um so I'm pleased with that. I think the seven.

E

Foot's a bit much, but you know I've got no scale that says it. What it's supposed to be um the.

E

The thing that I'm willing to live with, I guess, is the shed dormer on the back.

E

uh Because I understand what that will do in terms of the liveability of that space uh and and the.

E

Sheep street is so narrow and the opportunities are are so small for that to be an impact on our.

E

Community, I I don't see a rational reason to say no and I'm big on irrational reasons to say no.

E

But I'm thrown, I just I'm thrown by that shed door. The uh doghouse dormer on the little bump behind.

E

The what is now proposed to be the garage and- and I find that to be the thing I just can't defend.

E

uh Everything else seems like it makes good sense. It's good housekeeping practice, uh it kind of a.

E

Little bit of creativity and rediscovering the oculus and and a lot of this, I'm I'm.

E

Sort of behind um the doghouse dormer- I don't know if it's gonna change my vote on it, but it it.

E

It just seems like it's yet another, damn thing on the back. That is hard to define. Why.

E

Anyway, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. Thank you.

B

um I guess my comments are um initially. I was reluctant to see somebody's detailed, actually.

B

A whim that somebody decided to put on here. I've got a feeling, it might have happened.

B

When they turn this into a hotel for a while, because this was used as a rooming house, hotel.

B

In the late 19th century, maybe that's when they decided to dress it up.

B

But you know looking at your federal drawings and I think it'll be an interesting addition.

B

To uh see this, I agree with david: it's a little complicated on the back.

B

What um what happens with that doghouse trauma? What is that.

B

It's a little hip roof, actually yeah, it's a little hip. If you look at.

P

Sheet a 1.3 it'll show you the roof plan, 1.3 yep.

I

B

So why is it there? What is it doing and the intention there.

P

Is to narrow is to bring light into the bathroom on the third floor.

P

So we could, but there is, there is an atrium that looks like also in the bathroom or not uh correct.

P

You see that ridge that ridge uh skylight there is light there is light and that and it could be.

B

A skylight instead of a dormer instead of a dormer, does anyone else have any feeling about that.

B

Dormer that david has described you know, does anyone know where it is and all those I understand.

J

It doesn't understand it, I think it's adorable, he thinks it's adorable. You should be a little dormer.

I

You should say cute yeah. Well, that's I don't want to use it. Architects, don't like that word.

F

Anybody else I'm torn between the benefit of cute and the.

F

Distraction of busy yeah and that's what happened to the whole building a hundred years ago.

B

Cute and busy- I just wanted to one more comment about the.

J

One thing concerns me is about the oculus that if it's understated and everything it's great, I just.

J

Hope we don't end up with a proxy glass bubble white bubble or something like that um and that's.

J

What concerns me that, uh as long as we don't end up with some kind of you know, jetsons fiberglass.

I

You know thing up there, then I, I think, as long as we're not horrified, I think it'll be all right.

P

As long as we're not horrified, I think the the concept and the thought and the idea we have on.

P

Paper is great. I think we need to refine the design just a little bit more to get get.

P

Enough positive feedback from from you all to to uh for everyone to be comfortable with it, so.

P

I think that's something that we can continue on how you're gonna glaze it.

B

You know around how's it going. I think the way I see that going is, I think it would.

P

Be pre-fabricated, something that ends up getting yeah, certainly getting excited in place. Nick would.

I

Like to ask a question, I just wanted to see what your research determined from the last meeting.

A

I I remember a few members expressing some concern about the diameter of the oculus and that it.

A

Maybe it was karen moore being familiar with what was at 129 daniel, which I saw as well.

A

Our recollection of oculi is: is that they're typically half that size, so I wondered.

A

In terms of the diameter is what you're, what did your research determine? What and what to.

A

Find maybe this size versus something smaller yeah, so the research in this size, I think, are.

P

Two two different uh approaches: I think, as far as the research goes to reinforce what.

P

You said three feet four feet smaller in diameter than what what you may see here.

P

What this diameter does for us is, if you go back to the roof plant, I think it's complementary to.

P

The radius staircase in the space down below, I think, if, if it were too much smaller its.

P

Effect in that area wouldn't be as as great um you know and, like I said, we're still.

P

Refining the design- and I think we'll have to uh we'll- have to continue the discussion and.

P

Figure out what is going to work and what? What is the right the right fit for this, so just to.

A

Follow up what do you actually see for an answer to the last set of questions about how it's capped.

A

Is it a dome? Is it pitch glass what's above that copper? So, like you see so I see that being.

P

Prefabricated by someone, maybe a skylight manufacturer, someone in that department.

P

Where it has the slightest bevel or dome to it, not not something you'd pick up with your eye just.

P

Enough so that water wouldn't pond on there and it would come sealed top and walls it's get set into.

P

The roof flashed in and then the lead would would blood coated. Copper would come right up. The sides.

P

So pretty flat yeah, I don't see it being a bubble or a dome at all. Just the slightest.

P

Pitch to shed the water, I was, I can't point to it, but I've seen one fragments of the remains of one.

E

That were pitched like the pitch of the roof on the top, in other words, two windows.

E

Mitered, together on the ridge of the building, so they end up having very little visual profile.

E

From the street because they're the same pitch as the roof itself, but that's like a skylight.

E

Almost like a sky like you're butting, two skylights together, yes you're so.

F

You're saying just just because the framing is round doesn't mean that the time nothing.

E

Else has to be has to be around and- and I think when you make reference to the.

F

uh Relationship between the size of the staircase and and the oculus above it.

F

I always think of things getting smaller as they go up, so I think, having a straight up and down.

F

Cylinder barrel, a little bit like a silo might actually not work well for your aesthetics inside.

F

That you might actually want a more steeple type effect, carry that slope of the roof.

B

Well, anybody else have any other comments. Yeah, just one more quick question on a 2.2.

C

You've got two different types of door. Treatments going on are those just.

C

Still, options you're looking at or yeah correct, so those are those are two options. um The one on.

P

The right uh makes note of of keeping the existing door and side lights and transom.

P

And I think what we established on the site visit was um the architecture of that door plays off the.

P

Architecture of the roof and that dental molding that you see up above in the pediment now we.

P

We ran through the exercise of of instead of putting a limestone header above the.

P

Doorway rather trying a flat pediment, but I think, based on our site visit um a few weeks ago. I think.

P

That uh the existing one pays homage to what you see up above and and throughout it. So that's.

P

Something we discussed um amongst the design team to to incorporate so I'm sort of leaving it the.

A

Way, it is yeah I'll say from the sidewalk. That was one of the things I didn't notice more. That.

G

How that doorway was almost a miniature version of the house itself yeah um and it was really cool.

G

You know- and it would be sad to lose that um so I like the fact that you are so we're you're we're.

C

Thinking about leaving it, as you see, yeah, okay, great okay, so we have the oculus door. Everybody.

A

Good with the skylight, that was something we discussed- yeah yeah, I'm good with those skylights.

B

On the front- and I do understand your regular point on this on the oculus- preserving the history.

G

And that isn't that is making that uh the focal point would would ruin the history. It would be.

G

Incorrect, so I walk back my comments on that, but I'm going to I'm going to agree with david on the.

B

Complexity on the back that that little dormer adds I'm not sure if anybody else is.

B

In agreement with us at that time, but um it's just something to think about. Are you.

A

Supportive of a skylight in lieu or nothing, I wouldn't mind the skylight being there.

G

I think a skylight would make it less busy less yeah. I think that that cute little dormer makes.

B

Makes it look like a little garage shed up on top of the roof or something? But.

B

Anyways, that's me, so is there anybody in the public would like to speak about this. Certainly.

B

Come on up and introduce yourself hi good morning or good evening, um my name is marie bodie and I'm.

M

A resident at 121 state street, we are one of the abutters to this um site and I'm gathering from.

M

Mr adam's comment: you did not receive the package that I submitted to isaac today. You did okay, I did.

C

We just got it right before the meeting okay, so the reference that you are making to the ocular.

M

Is our home and I'll start with the tapering effect? We do have a functioning ocular. That goes.

M

From the first floor, outside of burning, carlson chocolatier, all the way up through the roof line.

M

And at the entry of our spiral, staircase does continue all along.

M

And I showed um in the diagram or photos the existing conditions of that ocular. So.

M

Excuse me: we called it an ocular all these years and I'm corrected it's an oculus.

M

But with that being said, I wanted to first state that we as abutters are really quite concerned and.

M

We realized that we received the notice of the first meeting that this applicant submitted to you.

M

Back in january was withdrawn, and I was surprised today only to look at the agenda for one congress.

M

Which I work for mark mcnabb to find that this was on the agenda today we reached out to the.

M

Hampshire development corp on two occasions to try to get updated plans from the january submission.

M

Because we have great great great concerns about what is not being depicted on here.

M

Existing conditions to propose in regards to the height and referencing back in the package.

M

That I submitted to you today there are minutes to the 2011 submission to the htc that went through.

M

All the way to planning where chairman reichoff, you have commented and quoted as stating some.

M

Of the issues with regards to the impediments to the windows that erica dodge and buzz dodge.

M

um Spoke fearlessly about and there's a an email in my packet today from erica dodge that.

M

Continues in those vain, um what was then in 2011 expanded to a from a small l to a now two-story.

M

Edition now proposing to go up to three stories is incredulous for sheep street and we call it chief.

M

You may call it shape, but um it is our front yard, our backyard, our entire community. So I'm I'm quite.

B

Upset upset, thank you for filling my words um so again in the regards to the oculus, I really really.

M

Think if you look at the photos that we've attached- and maybe it's not historically.

M

Significant or appropriate, but we, the three buildings, 121 123 and 129- have all looked.

M

Very similar in all these decades and hundreds of years- and you have this picture of innocuous.

M

Hidden behind little tree limbs and branches and whatnot, there are six different air intake.

M

And ex exhaust fans and systems on the roof that are not depicted in any of these photos thus far.

M

Someone mentioned about the air conditioning or mechanical systems, their mechanical systems.

M

Presently reside on our property, so they have an easement for a present air conditioning.

M

Capacity, which obviously is not within your purview but historically in the exterior of.

M

The structure, adding all the square footage is ultimately going to require more hvac.

M

So it should be of some concern and it should be in some of these work session drawings.

M

Again, I mentioned there's no height, there's no reflection.

M

The photos that I showed today show their vehicle parked in what is now their back door.

M

It can barely fit in that pavement area that you show there. It's only eight feet, three inches from.

M

The edge of their current building to the edge of that sidewalk granite for sheaf street, the arbor.

M

That we have and maintain, and the flowers that are nicely depicted on that deck are our deck. um That.

M

Arbor is six feet, three inches away from the granite, so this does not it's beautiful.

M

I love the color scheme, but that is just so much massing for our street. um Furthermore, um the black.

M

Clapboard or whatever they're depicting here, it is referenced several times that this is being.

M

Replaced or the vinyl is being replaced again. This came before the htc in 2011.. You did not.

M

Approve vinyl siding that is not vinyl siding and I'm kind of appalled that three out of the six of.

M

You did the sight, walk and everything that was discussed for the sight, walk.

M

Was windows and impediments nothing to do with the massing, nothing to do with our neighborhood.

M

I really believe that this to get to this stage in four meetings or three meetings.

M

And never consider this. We here are representing erica dodge, as I mentioned, who's the resident on.

M

Chief street and owns state street, the property that you reference, mr reichoff or chairman rykov,.

M

We are also representing frank heiker, who is in cincinnati, ohio, who did not know that this.

M

Event was happening, but he's a resident at 37 chief street and my husband mark bodie is going.

M

To speak on behalf, obviously of himself, but also um dr stobel, who has been very outspoken with this.

M

Htc in the past about this particular project and others, and so I thank you very much for your time.

Q

Good evening, thank you. Thank you for your service.

Q

This is a very important commission. I know. Sometimes you probably feel like you're, the rodney.

Q

Dangerfield of commissions, you never get any respect, but it's a very, very important function.

Q

And I'm I'm very committed to history, and I want to give you a little bit of history.

Q

About this building and that's our street chief street for many years that was just considered.

Q

Considered an alley and buzzy's name was mentioned and I think of him very affectionately. And if he.

Q

Was alive, he'd be with me today here and all of us? Unfortunately, we've got a an absent crew on.

Q

Our sheaf street association that we put together local families so that we could.

Q

Rebuild the street, which was full of potholes, and even though the funding was uh authorized by the.

Q

City council, they weren't acting on it for three years straight and through our association efforts.

Q

We had local lawn parties, we banded together, we wrote to the city council and we worked slowly.

Q

To improve what was going on and commented on, the renovations that were taking place on the street.

Q

While this property is located on state street, the same street, that my wife and I are building.

Q

Its viewscape is predominantly on chief stream. The viewing time of this building is very brief.

Q

It's very narrow so in considering the architectural elements of this building.

Q

One does need to focus on the back and I hate to call it the back because, as my wife said well, it's.

Q

To a lot of people on chief it's their front, but it is a very, very complicated design.

Q

More so than I think is necessary. I also want to point out that when we were here many years ago,.

Q

There was a betty wood used to own this building and she and uh jay had rebuilt.

Q

It and several others, including the um the building immediately adjacent to to ours and.

Q

Ultimately, she's she sold it from, as the old saying goes from somebody out of town.

Q

And they said that you know they want to make all these changes, and uh lo and behold they had this.

Q

Big presentation and our association said well, the massing is just too big, it's just too big and.

Q

uh This commission agreed and they had a steady hand and took a step back.

Q

And from that we have established what I believe is regulatory precedent.

Q

There's a precedent on that street. There's a precedent in that area with respect to.

Q

Renovations that are are done on buildings not only of significance, but.

Q

I understand that there's the capacity to do that on this site, but.

Q

I think that, as my wife pointed out, the massing creates a visual disruption.

Q

On a street that many people go down historic portsmouth, this is part of their tour.

Q

To the left is the prescott sisters, one of the prescott sisters, home and.

Q

With all due respect, I would have to say that this is a major project.

Q

Masquerading as a small renovation, you can see that evidence visually and that slide there.

Q

Where and I'm not faulting the architect at all, but it visually communicates.

Q

That the setback is greater than it is very, very narrow, as marie pointed out.

Q

We were told by the builder that it was going to extend another two feet.

Q

And I'm a little disappointed we had hoped to meet with the owner.

Q

And unfortunately, that was not possible for whatever.

Q

Reasons to voice not only to offer input constructive input with respect to this.

Q

I also want to point out in the narrative it speaks to this as a moderate project.

Q

Far from a moderate project, when that the entire garage structure is going to be leveled,.

Q

And they're going to be digging a full foundation at the spot, which is the very.

Q

Narrowest on sheet street so directly across from where those garages are now.

Q

To the beginning of the of the parking is the narrowest portion of the street.

Q

On either ends of the street, there was no parking uh to enable cars to turn the corner, which.

Q

uh The rubbish collection can barely do, but these existing conditions already pose challenges and.

Q

My wife and I know that she had to guide me in backing my car, oh because it was a car that was.

Q

Somewhat illegally parked, so there is a number of issues that I think go beyond the obvious.

Q

And again, I I think there are I there are a number of things that I I feel positive about.

Q

Regarding uh the work, that's the shutters are of no consequence to me. uh They weren't there.

Q

Before they were at it, after they've changed the paint and, as I said, through subsequent owners, I.

Q

I I had to chuckle myself and when I was reading some of the comments of the previous work sessions.

Q

They said they want to turn this. What used to be a, I don't know a warehouse into a home, and I said.

Q

You know this has always been a home. Betty would live there. The only thing this building needs is.

Q

Somebody who's going to stay put in it, you know, and uh so that in in closing, let me say that.

Q

We want to be good neighbors and uh we all want to get along, and but the proof is in the pudding.

Q

Just looking at that roof line, it's it's a bridge too far, and uh I would ask you to re-examine that.

Q

um As well, some of the other finer points to be sure that the hour you want them to be in.

Q

We all hope they will be. Thank you very much. Thank you very eloquent uh anybody else. Nick.

I

Look like it nope.

I

All righty could I just ask a clarification about with a comment that this gentleman has made about.

F

The foundation is, is there, is there not there's any reference in your letter to any work under.

F

Or in the foundation of the existing garage sure, so if you uh jump to sheet a 1.1 it'll.

P

Show you a basement plan and on the uh now current right hand, side is my understanding slab on grade.

P

Where the parking currently is and what the owner has proposed is to shift the parking.

P

Over to the left and allow for excavation of the basement area on the right hand, side.

P

It is partially excavated already I've been in the.

P

Basement of the state street home, so state street portion, I'm gonna call it is the.

F

Excavation is gonna, take place with shovels and picks, or is there mccammie now? Is this no yeah.

B

um Is it going closer to sheaf street or no.

B

Is it? Is it the same size? The the footprint does does push out slightly towards what is.

P

I can't give you a dimension right now. It's on here, like all right zoom in yeah, I'll zoom in.

A

Hang on I'm sure, I'm in the right spot, twenty four and four- and I mean four- almost five feet.

A

Look at the screen up here: you've got it up. There is this: the dimension you're.

A

Trying to get is this the push out so right so right now it's uh about.

P

Two two and a half feet um further back on the left-hand portion, where the garage is now like.

P

Here? Yes, so it's about two and a half feet. So it's less than four feet: yeah yeah, there's no.

C

You're not um you're, going to be able to fit any parking no outside. No, no. The parking will.

A

Be undercover yes, it would be in the garage so in in looking at that. um Your concerns about.

B

Whether or not the garage is getting too close and whether or not they'll be able to back out.

B

I hate to say, but these are questions that you don't want to ask us. You know you need to.

B

Be in communication is veracity.

B

Thank you, okay. Yeah. I understand what you're saying now yeah I get it.

B

Yeah, thank you understood and as as this continues to progress, we will have to uh visit.

P

The various other boards um for technical analysis of of, what's going on here, yeah.

M

Excuse me, though, aren't you supposed to provide the heights, as is today on the roof line.

M

In the existing conditions versus the proposed conditions for the htc to consider yeah they're.

A

Going to need to do that to file for a public hearing which they're not at they're, welcome.

M

To do it now, okay, I can tell you right now: it's way below what's allowed, but that doesn't mean.

A

It's shown, but they need to show it but you're not going to find a zoning violation for building.

A

Height based on what I'm looking at. No I'm not considering it a violation, but I think in the.

M

Consideration for you all on massing, it does not appear as much higher, but it obviously is going to.

M

Be much higher so unless you have those dimensions for even your review today, it seems sort of.

M

Misleading to have gotten to three meetings and they have one diagram that shows in a quarter.

M

Inch scale and one that's an eighth inch scale. So again we asked for plans and I think jeremy you're.

A

Not wrong the scale's on there, it can be measured, it can be done. A lot clearer, it'll be clearer. Okay,.

F

And I wouldn't assume everybody here, can't look at drawings and determine what's the difference.

A

Between existing and proposed that's a little presumptuous, but it could be a lot clearer and it.

A

Will be for the next meeting? In fact, we will get the given the commentary and the concern we'll get.

A

The graphics file from the from the architect and we'll insert it in the model it so you can see it.

A

In relation to other buildings, because there is no requirement to do the neighborhood in order.

A

To do it relationally with the other buildings, so the best way to do that is with the 3d model.

A

And the reason this is labeled, a moderate project is because you were just here to see what a major.

A

Project is which is a 100 room hotel with a 50 000 square foot that we only have three.

A

Categories, it's not, it doesn't mean this is inconsequential because it's labeled, moderate.

A

So I just want to clear the air there is there one other thing we could ask for in the next round of.

M

Plans, and that be a shadow study on how this is going to impact our that model will actually do.

M

That enable us to do that. So yes, thank you yeah all right! Thank you! So uh can we have a motion? Do.

I

You want to come back in a month come back next month or I'd like to come back next month to a.

P

Public hearing, if you guys are not, uh it seems like if you're going to do that, not to speak for.

A

John, but maybe you do a work session, slash public hearing? Yes, so we have an opportunity to continue.

A

The work session, if we're at a point where there's no consensus in moving to a hearing but we'll make.

A

Sure, when you file, if you're going to do that, yes, you get us, we need the 3d model, 3d model you're.

A

Going to need to have your architect add all the dimensions for the ridge, the mean the eaves. Yes,.

A

And I would suggest that maybe you um encourage your client to talk to the neighbors.

A

And if he files for a work session, public hearing, everybody gets re-noticed for the second time.

A

You only get a notice at the beginning of the work sessions. Any continuance, that's.

A

Why we do it at date, certain we don't just say, they're going to come back any time.

A

We say you're coming back next month and if they don't come back next month, there's a motion as.

A

You've heard tonight to postpone people that need more time than a month to prepare their next set.

A

Of drawings, there's only two legal notices for projects that have work sessions and.

A

Public hearings, which is this one, so there will be more one more notice should he uh in his team.

A

Prepare an application for public hearing and there's no guarantee that it won't require more.

A

Than one meeting to come to a conclusion, we can appreciate that. Thank you and I know that.

Q

You know whether it's mod yeah come to the mic yeah. If you want this to be recorded, it's sad.

Q

It's a big project yeah, you know, and there are logistical issues, huge dump, deploying all that.

Q

This in our minds is big b.I.g so because you live next door, I want everybody else to know.

A

Yeah: okay, when you're representing we'd be happy to sit down with the architect yeah.

B

I would please use more. I can certainly remember, as far as big projects go, mr sorbell's project.

B

And that was tremendous, so that's all I'll say at this point: okay, all right! That's! Okay!.

I

All right um so should I move to close the work session. If that's.

C

What you're in a work session? No the work session is going to just continue.

B

Why don't you continue it and if you don't need it, because you're going to file for a hearing.

A

Then you will be able to withdraw that way. You can go back and talk to the rest of your team.

A

Given everything that's been said, okay, all right and not be locked out of coming back here for a.

A

Work session right, so I move that we continue the work session just in case to next month.

B

Second, all those in favor all right, all those against okay. Thank you.

B

We need a break, or does everybody want to uh continue.

I

Okay, may I just present for a different matter, mr cracknell, and um so I was under the impression.

M

That we had withdrawn for the one congress street work session and I did confirm with tracy kozak.

M

Excuse me pardon me um postpone host okay. So can we take your request as.

A

A request tonight to postpone that way. There's no need yes! So I'm now presenting on behalf of.

M

Marie bode mcnab properties executive vice president, and um we would request that, for.

M

Some reason the paperwork did not get through and we had requested a postponement got it till next.

A

Month, like a motion to that effect, yeah so motion to that effect. Thank you move to postpone.

A

Yeah, you take a five minute break yeah.

I

I

B

Okay, this is 85, damn bonuses.

C

B

Get to get indeed screen back up here again.

B

All righty we're back up good enough. uh This is a work session requested by elg, an llc owner.

B

For property located at 85 daniel street, wherein permission is requested to allow new construction.

B

To an existing structure, remove and replace rear addition and remove and replace roof with new.

B

Dormers and renovations to an existing structure, replace the windows, siding, trim and front stoop as.

B

Per plans on file in the planning department said: property is shown on assessor map 107 as lot 8.

B

And lies within character, district 4 and historic districts; okay, who's here and you.

B

Have to introduce yourselves sorry, no problem uh mark giannini from mchenry architecture. I'm here.

R

With richard desjardins also from our office, uh the property owner and applicant uh andy rudder.

R

And our builder donald diggin alrighty guys. What do you got so I'm gonna kick off uh besides.

I

Besides emilios, yes, formerly emilia's yeah, so I'm gonna just quickly go over the building history.

S

A lot quicker than what is shown right here, but essentially when this building was originally.

S

Built it was for the methodist church. It was supposed to be a chapel for their sunday school.

S

That was in 1859 and then in 1890 it sold to become essentially a tenement house and ever.

S

Since then, it's been used for mostly residential and in recent years it's been emilio's and.

S

Several other businesses on the first floors and between the sales there has been a series of.

S

Renovations and alterations, however, it's pretty unclear between maps and images. What actually.

S

Has happened throughout its lifetime and to preface the presentation on our proposed changes.

S

Do things that we do want to get good feedback on is essentially the dormers and the addition.

S

um Just um before we head into this, and if we go to sheet a1 um you'll see the actual building.

S

So this is located on daniel street and it's.

S

In quite a condition that needs some repairs, so our intention is to patch.

S

And repair these into the siding on the front of the building that essentially the front of.

S

The building is going to be remaining intact with some painting and patching of the trim.

S

And one thing that will be changing is in the top right. Is this faux brick asphalt, siding that will.

S

Be removed and replaced with, hopefully, some wood clapboards that are underneath um this site. The.

S

Asphalt, siding, that's that's become historic. Now, it's true yeah. Maybe it's not even funny.

F

It looks pretty good, is that, uh is it far enough away from the building next door that you can put.

F

Wood yeah, so we're actually we're just over three feet. So it'll have to be hearty if you're, not pot.

A

Well, the the intent is we'll get into more of the details, but the intent is to repair and replace.

R

The the original, the existing cloud ports that are underneath all that yeah yeah, is it three people.

A

For uh combustible material I'll have to check on the combustible tail, it's three feet for.

R

For openings, okay, so that would be great yeah. So moving forward on sheet a2 you'll see essentially.

S

A bunch of contextual images up and down daniel street um and on the bottom left you'll see the.

S

Old connie bean center and the cambridge trust um building, this is essentially where we got.

S

Some of our inspiration for the dormers setting them back.

S

Reducing the size, the visual appearance of them and continuing to move forward, a3.

S

More contextual photos more or less from the street face, as well as custom house lane, which is.

S

More or less the rear alleyway, which you get to see the rear edition or the former rear edition.

S

And to the right are two historical images that we were able to find through the anthonym.

S

And one of the more important sheets that we have in this package is a4. This is from the.

S

1949 sanborn map I'm showing that there used to be a fairly substantially um large garage in the.

S

Back um actually larger than what we're proposing. Unfortunately, we were not able to find any images.

S

Of this and prior to this map, there have actually been smaller garages dating back to the 19 1920.

S

At the earliest, and then it was pretty unclear as to why it was removed and when it was removed.

S

And I will handle this map again: 1949. yep 1914 49., the one with the garage, okay, yeah wow,.

I

Yeah, you guys looked at all the sanborn reps. Yes,.

R

uh Continuing on from there we'll um kind of talk more about.

R

uh The building and some of the changes uh like richard mentioned uh a5, is really just to give.

R

You an idea of the demolition we are planning on reorganizing, the interior for the for the new use.

R

um And the rear edition that's there now, which is about 16 feet by six, we're planning on removing.

R

uh Moving on to a6, you can see some of these um in the in the elevation. Some of these spaces.

R

Like richard had mentioned in the contextual photos, you know the side elevation here. The.

R

East elevation: that's all currently the asphalt siding, there's also a number a number of windows.

R

That have been boarded up, some have been, the windows have been completely removed,.

R

And they've been infilled with plywood most of the windows on the sides, the east and west.

R

Elevation as well as the south elevation are all from what we can tell replacement windows.

R

So, there's really not a lot of historic significance to those.

R

Looking at the north elevation, we're really trying to keep most of that intact, as richard mentioned repair and replace siding trim.

R

Some of the detailed work around the front entrance the windows we are playing. We were.

R

Talking about replacing those and we can get into more detail that as we move on and then the roof.

R

Would be partially removed to you for the the dormers which we'll see here in the next couple.

R

Pictures or pages a7, real quick, shows the the rear edition again, the small rear edition that.

R

We plan on removing, as well as the chimney, that's in the rear, we're planning on taking that down.

R

There are four chim remnants of four chimneys when you stand you're on the third floor in the attic.

R

uh This is the only one that's remaining, but from what our in I'll say, in-house historical expert.

R

Steve thinks it's a replacement chimney at some point because of the additional.

R

Detail that's been added, there's like terra cotta, um medallion, that's on to the sides.

R

On eight is the proposed layouts that we're looking at. As I mentioned, we were reconfiguring.

R

These so in general, the the spaces are planning on being used is two residential units with either a.

R

Live work uh in the front or a leaseable office space on the first floor. Right now is just on on.

R

One side of the dividing partition and then the addition that we're looking at on the rear of the.

R

Building so it's 27 by 20, approximately square foot addition for the footprint the first floor.

R

Will be used as a two-car garage one for each one for each unit on the second floor, there'd be.

R

A small living space, bedroom or office with a covered deck off of that and then the the.

R

Top floor is is roof as well as decks that can be accessed from the third floor of the units.

A

And why the difference between the left and right unit on the ground floor really.

R

Only the office space, if you look at the right there along daniel street you've got an office.

R

Space that has a bathroom closet and then on the opposite side of that, it's really just additional.

R

It's labeled as bonus room, but it's really just additional living space for that. What made you.

A

Not do an office over there, that's what I'm asking right yeah! Well, it's certainly possible.

R

At this time we were just looking at um possible configurations.

F

Possible configurations for the consideration of your buyer. Yes,.

Q

Well, that ruled awfully easily. Thank you very much.

A

Irrespective of the streetscape, yes, I mean at this point, the andy is looking at, you know is intending.

R

On occupying one side um and he doesn't need as much space and then obviously you know a future.

R

Purchaser, like you mentioned or buyer, uh you know we're giving them the option.

R

At least at the moment to have additional living space, it's going to be a nice space.

A

This is outside probably because of buzzy dodge the downtown overlay district.

A

So it's an oddity that right this entire block allows residential on the ground floor, which is.

A

Inconsistent with, what's there and it's going to, I fear, move in this direction as they move.

A

Down the street with the next two buildings that are rebutting it that are currently on the market.

A

And probably going to transition to the highest and best use, which is not going to be commercial.

A

So it's going to be a very different feel on daniel street, when these are done.

E

And just because I don't know anything at all, what did buzzy do wrong? Well, there's a downtown.

A

Overlay district that covers probably two-thirds of the downtown and it requires ground floor uses.

A

To be non-residential- and there were areas carved out of that zoning amendment when it was proposed.

A

That include daniel street state street and chief and the connie bean is in it.

A

So it's actually, it probably wasn't just buzzy, but I know he was part of.

A

Protecting residential uses on the ground floor, for maybe even his own building on state street.

A

Thank you very much for the clarifying that what was he on.

B

Was he on the htc or was he on? No? No, he was just opinionated. He just was a horse yeah yeah. He was.

B

A smart guy very good. uh Well, it's just! I think it's the way it's going to be heading because it.

B

Seems to me that a lot of you know your brick and mortar stores are sort of dying out a little bit.

B

I hate to say that, but the district doesn't get a large cute little.

A

Yes, I mean we, we just for conversation that the uh the connie bean gym was not in it.

A

And we added it and I think we might have added now 77 state street was maybe the impetus for.

A

The connie bean, because 77 state street, that replaced the exxon gas station, put parking on.

A

The ground floor, which is again not allowed in the dod, this could be a garage all the way out.

A

To daniel street wow, which would be obviously a shame and that's not what they're proposing but.

A

You wouldn't be able to do that if it was in the dod. Okay, we're getting a little awesome.

I

Okay, all right, so our proposed changing changes yeah. So let's make it a parking garage. Yes,.

R

Don't give us any ideas right, a victorian parking bra, any comments on this and have you finished.

B

That I mean, if you want, I can run there's a couple more pages: yeah yeah um a9. These are the.

R

Now in the proposed elevations so again on the north elevation uh for the most part, keeping.

R

Everything intact it's there now, except for the window, replacements, uh the dormers.

R

As we've mentioned earlier, that we're adding to the proposed to the third floor are step back.

R

About five feet from every direction, so there's less presence when you're at the street view.

R

Which you'll see in some of the renderings further on and at this am we're proposing two chimneys.

R

On the front of the building, these would be replacement replica chimneys, but they would.

R

Be used to service the gas fire places that are proposed into inside the units very good. Thank you.

R

And then on the east elevation there you can see the side of the rear edition, that's being proposed.

R

Again, um two stories with a roof deck: that's partly concealed by the hip roof.

R

The hip roof is at the same pitch as the main roof of the original building.

R

A10 uh is the south elevation or the rear of the building again, looking at the addition, the two-car.

R

Garage the decks of the second floor that are covered, as well as the open deck on the top floor.

R

There's an entrance on either side of the garage with a little.

R

Slight, that's covered those go into the garage and then access to the units from the rear.

R

And then the west elevation is similar similar to the east. Moving on from there.

R

Are really just the next couple pages? I won't don't need to go into any detail, but they're.

R

Renderings renderings of the proposed uh the next two or three pages, including the rear on a11 and.

R

Then beyond that is uh proposed product data for the proposed windows, light fixtures, railings.

R

Which I can go over if you want that's self-explanatory,.

B

Really pretty much into massing at this point and yep how big of the unit.

A

uh They're definitely two thousand square feet each so have you got enough parking? Is there a.

A

Car that fits outside the garage as well. Yes, we need three parking spots and you got four yep good.

B

All righty comments, questions, answers, ready, we'll go.

G

um So I really like that you're keeping the front of the building on the um street, um obviously.

G

That's what everyone will see: that's what everyone! My only worry on that side. That elevation would be.

G

The dormers, I think, um the obviously you showed proof there used to be a garage there in the back.

G

And that back edition, I don't think it's impacting anyone. I don't think it's. I.

G

Think it fits with the mass thing, I think it. You know, you wouldn't even see it from dana street.

G

um But I guess my only thing would be the increase of the messing from the dormers.

G

But I'm really, I love that you guys are placing everything pretty much in kind.

G

You know I mean this: I bought a lot of calzones in that front as a child, but um yeah. No. This is.

G

Obviously, a special building for portsmouth um but yeah. Those are my official comments.

G

Right you look at the screen, there's a lot of chimneys here. Are they all? What are you proposing.

A

To do with your chimney, they're two chimneys. No, those don't exist, they don't they. What those two.

A

Don't exist yes, so if you look at that, so you're adding those two we're adding a spoiler got. It.

A

A veneer chimney yes, so there's I missed it on a3, which was going to point out in one of the photos.

R

From 82 there's two chimneys uh in the front and then when you're in the third floor kind of in.

R

The um the knee wall space there's evidence that there were four chimneys at one point.

R

But they were all three good detail for that when you get there yeah yeah.

I

Okay, um if you don't mind, uh mr chairman, I I I'm not a huge fan of the dormers uh or the the pair.

E

Of dormers, but I think in my mind I I am weighing this out and I think it's a small price to pay for.

E

The preservation of the rest of the building- um I I appreciate the the setting the dormers back from.

E

The eaves edges, I think, that's a good move. I even appreciate you breaking the eve of the dormers.

E

That they don't look like uh somehow there's a bowling alley up there or something I think that's.

E

All pretty successful, I I appreciate the detailing that you put in the little hood over the rear side.

E

Door, the hood over the garage doors is a a nice homey. Little touch, I'm very comfortable with I.

E

Think that that this is a heck of a commitment to the neighborhood. uh Just having this place, which.

E

Need is indeed in need of some tlc, uh and this looks like a good use for it. uh If there's one.

E

Thing I have some heartburn over. It's the crooked uh demising wall between the two units on the.

E

Deck and the back- that's that's! uh Oh! That's not the one on the roof. It tapers! It's just come on.

I

The thought that I had was, we decreased the height of that and widen it just to touch enough to add.

K

Planters along the top of it, and then we can do some kind of a green wall to divide the two.

K

Sides architecturally, if you would stand if you could somehow get your 14 16 foot stilts on and.

E

Stand right beside the building, it does fill in the shape of the missing building on the back.

E

But only in that artificial condition to the right, some kind of grill yeah anyway.

E

Maybe this is just me being comfortable, but I've seen this sort of stuff done.

E

I think it's going to be appropriate for the building the bill you can handle it. Just fine.

E

And uh it means that we get to keep this modest scaled building there on the side.

E

Of daniel street, thank you very much yeah. Thank you. Yes, rick um yeah. I echo a lot of the comments.

C

As you're saving this building and doing a lot of restoration, which is wonderful,.

C

um I would, I would actually like to see the dormers being set back even more just.

C

Because I still feel in the renderings when you're looking at it, they still really do pop out there.

C

And um so I don't know if you can just bring it back like one window bay or something like that or.

C

Break it up break it up a little bit more um yeah. I. I also appreciate that it's not just the full.

C

Shed, you know um elevation all the way on the side, but I just broken up a little bit. But if.

C

You could set it back any as much as possible. I think it would really help the facade there.

C

um I'd also really like to encourage you to look at the restoration of your historic windows.

C

um Because they, you know, I haven't gone up to, like you know, look you know put my face.

C

Up into the storm windows or anything and look at the um the condition of them. But.

C

They um look substantial and they're definitely historic, and they definitely.

C

Retain the historic nature of the facade, so if you can look into restoring them at all,.

C

Yeah, I I don't want to see um a beautifully restored uh facade here with replacement.

C

Windows um but otherwise I think yes, I think, looking at the you know historic precedent for.

C

Massing for a garage in the back, all of that stuff is, you know, in my opinion,.

C

Acceptable and appropriate, I would also, as you might have heard in our.

C

Previous application, you might want to make sure that you're cool with the neighbors.

C

Talk to your neighbors engage them. Make sure that they're cool with that, um or at least you know,.

C

Talk to them and andy has talked to some of the owners, our neighbors and so far, they've all been.

R

Supportive of it, so it will be a bit disturbing for that little alley. You know, I think the press.

B

Room went through yeah, hell and high water for a long time. There yeah anybody else here.

F

Yes, yes, um so I I had concerns about the effect in the back alley, but I've decided to leave that.

F

To the technical team to decide whether there's enough room for cars and garbage trucks and fire.

F

Trucks and everything like that, um I agree with reagan. I would like to see the dormer set back.

F

A little more, I don't think it's an issue on the right side, the west side, because there's the other.

F

Building sitting right there, but there is quite a view from from the other side and so pushing them.

F

Back, I think, would be a really good idea. I also agree with the replacement windows. My question.

F

Is the stairs you're replacing these wooden stairs with a combination of brick and granite.

F

Could you talk about why you chose those materials, historic precedent, any anything.

F

That you can tie to as to why you chose those because there's nothing on the street to look.

F

Up and down that block, there really isn't anything else, except for the one other set of wooden stairs.

F

It's unique, so our intention was more or less to tie it into the brick.

S

Foundation was to have a more or less like connect um by having in the granite as well like granite.

S

Steps we thought fit in well with the brick we weren't really able to beat it well, we didn't find.

S

Any historical precedent there's actually quite a lack of photos before the 80s of this building.

S

So we don't know what could have been there previously. The wood porch in and of itself.

S

Needs to be replaced anyways as it's in pretty bad condition. This is uh this is sort of a unique.

F

Building because it is above the sidewalk level- and that is very rare- not only on this.

F

Street, but practically in downtown, unless it's a residence, you know that that outside the back.

F

A brick residence yeah, the stairs that are there, seem to be just kind of basic pressure treated.

K

Wood, that's nothing special. We wanted to kind of dress it up a bit and thought the brick like.

K

He had mentioned looked consistent with the rest of the world and eventually we'll get some.

F

Detail on the railings and things like that, yeah there are cut uh product data on the back of the.

R

Proposed rail, I think, she's talking about oh the front, the front railings are we're just going to.

S

Replace the place, reuse, reuse, the iron railings that are there I'll, take a little closer look at.

F

Them next time no display yeah. It appears as if those have been the railings for quite some time.

B

Okay, anyone else, um may I just choose your comments, sir. um Well, before you come back.

E

I think it'd be useful for everyone to have a a live photograph of the front of the building. That.

E

You could pace the dormers onto so we could get something because I'm not saying that.

E

Architects are trying to confuse people, but it's not always when we're measuring scale.

E

To get a vantage point, uh my idea of a good vantage point is always the same as yours.

E

But if we could have a photograph from you know five foot from across the street so that we could.

E

All look at that and have a say this is what the dormers are going to actually look like.

E

And next is on the data sheet. I saw that you're proposing elevate for the.

E

Replacement in new windows on the building- I know very little about this stuff, but.

E

Sometimes the elevate windows come in a package with plastic trim and you can see.

E

What I'm doing right now right, yeah, that's! It seems like the cheesiest part of the product.

E

Is your, would it be your intention to use that sort of stuff doing this? um No.

I

No, no the way they're there. Okay, I don't you understand what I'm talking about.

E

Exactly no, we wouldn't want to use any. It would really just be the frame and okay, not any of the.

R

Trim accessories that they provide okay, all right. Thank you. I just I saw them on your cut sheet.

E

And thought maybe they were put there for a reason like for me to see yeah that that would not be a.

F

Replacement in kind you're correct about that, but they are putting new windows in the building too.

S

Yeah and the front windows would have the trim exactly it does sure same yeah. Thank you very much.

E

Thank you, mr chairman, so the trim around any new windows would be similar in profile and material.

F

To the existing? Yes, which is more or less like a flat stock on the sides and heavier.

K

Mark would it be worth me going over my thoughts on the windows and the research I've done yet or.

R

Not yet yeah, okay, so we we did look into keeping the existing windows on the street side and.

K

Wanted to try to do that and you know I thought it was a good idea. We had the asbestos sample.

K

Throughout the building, I guess the glazing is all asbestos around the original windows when.

K

I talked to dennis, I guess they don't work on windows that have asbestos. Please wimps.

C

I don't understand where the asbestos is in a window in the glaze around the windows.

K

That was part of it, and then there were a couple other thoughts that we had too one being.

K

With the thin glass and just the two pane windows that are set up a foot from the floor, we worried.

K

About you know needing tempered glass from a code standpoint there and didn't know how that would.

K

Play in um and also, I think, your existing windows get exempt, but we were just worried about a little.

A

Kid you know up against these windows well worst case: you'd go, buy a tempered glass and put it in.

A

There and they'd be re-putting or the second way of handling it is to have a panel an inside panel.

B

That you would make that would put right. You know on the windows, well, every house.

I

In the district has that problem yeah, okay yeah, but um somehow my children survived.

Q

New england, children, oh my daughter, survived. I was up scraping my house every other year.

I

So the lead paint.

B

I think there's other people that need they'll they'll, restore those women. There's lead paint.

B

On every one of these guys yeah, what no and I I know dennis and tom- and you know we work with.

C

Them all the time, so if they are hesitant about it, then it gives me pause too, because they're.

C

Not afraid to work with lead, um but asbestos, I can understand that. um That's just weird, but.

C

Maybe also look at some other options than the marvin.

R

What about if we yeah, maybe more of like a green mountain window from the front.

I

Yeah, maybe not metal, clad yeah, maybe yeah, no, a wood window, no wood window for the facade.

C

I don't yeah, I don't even really care about the sides in the back. It's that that facade is.

C

Beautiful and it's so intact and it I can't wait to see it restored. Yeah, cleveland, green, mountain.

C

Lepage, there are some good wood windows yeah we do get quotes from green mountain for the front. So.

B

Okay, so are you feeling that you want to come back for another work session, or what do you.

B

Feel of the heat um I mean, I guess, if you guys felt it was appropriate. Maybe a work session.

R

Public hearing you do that yeah you're, using sketchup or using.

A

Rabbit revvit is there, let's get it in our 3d model before you come back, so um the buildings.

S

In excellent are actually from the 3d model, yep understood. I want to get this one in our model.

S

Oh, so, in your in your okay yeah everything, there is some concern over the dormers.

S

That's understandable, we can't see it until we can see it.

B

Yeah everything else played out pretty well. There was some concern about the stairs.

B

The steps- I don't know how you guys are feeling over in the right-hand side.

C

Let's just see what they bring us yeah. Is there any chance of getting any type.

R

Of extension for the submission for next month, since it's tomorrow at one o'clock, oh.

R

With the holiday- and sometimes I want to stay up all night tomorrow with this- and we can give you.

A

A few days to replace it to next week, let's say once the advertising is well thursday's when the.

D

Ad goes out next week: yeah, okay, so thursday would be your deadline. You'd have a week from now and we.

A

Could just withdraw it? No we'd substitute we'd. Add your new drawings, oh well! If we can't get.

A

All of our answers by thursday, for instance, next thursday, yeah, yes yep or come in and.

A

Do the work session and right and not the public hearing portion yep, you got no life anyway, right.

A

So, do you want a motion to continue the work session in case you don't file tomorrow and if.

B

Okay, all those in favor aye against. I see you. Thank you very much.

I