City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 5 Jan 2022

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1.5.2022 Historic District Commission

A

You'll be moving to the right.

B

Okay, welcome to the january 5th historic district commission meeting. I would like.

B

To say the board's actions in these matters have been deemed to be quasi-judicial in nature.

B

If any person believes any member of the board has a conflict of interest, that issue should be.

B

Raised at this point, or it will be deemed waived, okay, so we're going to approve some minutes. We.

B

Have december 1 and december 15., everyone looked at these and what comments do we have.

C

I don't have any comments, no, they were fine. Let's have a motion all right. I moved to approve the.

C

The december 1st and december 15th uh meeting minutes seconded okay, all those in favor say aye.

B

Aye against all right, we have our approval and then we're going to immediately jump.

B

On to administrative approvals, let you do the election of officers all right yeah before we.

B

Do that we're going to elect the offices that we need once a month, so does anybody have a.

B

Suggestion I will be happy to nominate john wyckoff as our chair once again.

C

I'll, second, that thank you.

B

Should I be saying.

B

Well, all those in favor yeah, okay, all those against all righty. So now we need a vice chair.

D

I would like to nominate reagan rudik, as vice chair.

E

Seconded, thank you, okay, so all those in favor say aye, aye, aye, aye again all right. So we have.

B

A vice chair and a chair, thank you very much for your confidence. I'll. Try not to screw up.

B

Too much but right now we have administrative approvals and we're going to pull out.

B

Bow street one number one and number four, which is 442 middle street. So if someone wouldn't make that.

B

Motion so moved second, second, okay, all those in favor aye, aye, aye aye. So uh we could immediately.

B

Jump onto those or listen to nick um go through the other ones. What do you want to do? Nick.

F

So 99 bow is out and middle street and and court street correct, that's yeah. Well, I.

C

Just have to recuse myself from okay, so you just won't vote on that. Yeah all right.

F

Let me quickly go through 462 middle is a request to replace.

F

um Louvered shutters with panel shutters um nick, I just had a question about that. I I looked at.

E

What pictures I had of that is that are we: are we changing what have been approved before or.

E

Something that's existing because I didn't see the shutters on the existing structure.

F

No, I don't think they were approved, be maybe they were approved as leverage uh shutters, but.

F

Either way that they aren't there and they want to put shutters on, they haven't, ordered anything.

E

Did they provide any historic pictures that supported one or the other or.

E

There weren't any before no, they did not provide any, and I don't know what was on there before. If.

F

And if that matters, uh okay, I don't know, I mean it's bad yeah. I have a question yep. That's a.

G

Whole strip of middle street that 14 or 11 out of the 14 are all shutters. I think it fits in well.

G

Most of them are original wood. My question is how they're going to attach them, though,.

G

Because there's some that are just very good, you know very good question. Tacky, just nailed.

G

To the siding, do we know that? I think I don't see that they've mentioned that, but I think we.

F

Can clearly stipulate there'll, be pintles and dogs to very good look like they're, operable yeah.

G

That should be a stipulation. Yeah stipulate that they're not just attached to the exterior.

C

Walls but are actually on hinges and yeah. At least these are um real raised panels.

B

I only say that driving down pleasant street I happen to notice a newly constructed building.

B

That we approved and uh the solid shutters are not really raised panels.

B

There's they're just kind of flat panel, and I was a little disturbed with that.

B

But, and nick do we know, do we know how many shutters are being put on? Is it.

E

In just the front, I think it's the front of the house, because it doesn't really say that either.

F

Well, I'm assuming it's at least the front. Is it a disaster if they decide to put them on the side.

F

Existing approved louvered shutters, no, whatever we approved before, I guess it's. Okay.

A

You know my my thought and maybe this is incorrect, but my thought was that it's.

A

It's a revival house it it's borrowing, elements from another time somewhat and.

A

Anachronistically um and the panel shutter or flat panel shutter, I don't think that.

A

This is a race panel sort of operation. I think this is a flat panel, but that's a pretty typical.

A

Revival shutter- and we see it many times so whether it's the most accurate thing here or not,.

A

I I don't, I can't see we're raising an issue about it. The building would look as they say, some smart.

A

Thank you, david. Okay. uh Nick keep going okay, so 160 court street. This is a request to.

F

Re-Roof, the feaster building on court street. They want to put a new shallow sloped roof with.

F

Insulation on that roof, underneath the roof and some probably gutters and downspouts to.

F

Make that roof work, it's a flat roof now.

F

This is the existing building on the screen.

F

Yeah so uh carla may be here if there's questions, that's what craig welch told me today, yeah.

B

Certainly, there's the gutter system doesn't seem to be much or anything else, carla, no.

D

No change in the coping detail, maybe yeah slightly just a little better.

G

Not that it truly matters was there a question: is there a change in the coping detail at the eve.

F

Yes, yes, but there's also um a fairly large gutter going on top of that. The purpose of this is right.

H

Now we have central internal drains and they drain out to parrot ave and it's been determined by.

H

um Dpw that we can't that can't the water can't uh the that area can't handle the water so we're.

H

Bringing the water up to court street as part of so we're, rerouting the water and in in the process.

H

We're re-roofing feaster as well so part of our site plan approval for the court street project.

H

Was rerouting the roof drainage off of feaster to court and away from peridot? So your intention is.

A

To re-pitch the roof using the insulation? Yes right, because right now, it's central.

H

And we're draining it off because rerouting the drains through the building that now sort of wind.

H

Their way back out to parrot ave is is uh quite a daunting undertaking, especially because this.

H

Is all you know, uh precast slab, so it's it's, uh we decided gutters would be the way to go.

B

uh Thank you any other questions.

D

Okay, um well, the last maybe similar one, an easy one is 80 fleet street, which is also.

F

A roof replacement, I think it's asphalt or tar with stone. They want to put this.

F

Pvc type roof on the top of the macintosh building at 80 fleet. There is no roof or.

F

Gutter or drain system- I don't think, being proposed here.

B

Well, they don't. Let us know that, do they.

F

So it's a change in materials for the membrane roof that.

F

Or the roofing system- that's on there to a pvc based membrane.

F

Any questions on that I've yet to develop an aesthetic for either so good with me right.

C

There's no way you'll see it, except for a drone until we get that helicopter yeah right.

B

Yeah one of these days, okay, so, okay, that's it! So! Do you want to vote on 164 and 80 fleet street.

F

As presented well, I can't I need to reduce myself from court street.

G

What about the middle? We haven't done that yet we're pulling out middle 462, 442.

F

462 yeah: are we not pulling that out the shutters? Oh, no 462. We did the shutters there's another.

F

One on here from middle street, 442. yeah, we haven't voted. We just haven't voted on it. Oh.

G

Okay, um we haven't talked about the shingles, the chimney removal. Yet no, we thought we were.

C

Voting on a few and we're just making sure that we're going to three yes certainly help here.

E

May make a motion that we approve 462 middle street and 80 fleet street okay with stipulations.

E

On 462 middle, yes, let's do those two, and then we can do 160 without reagan, correct, okay, so I've.

E

Moved for those two all righty, would someone like to make that motion? She might. I did I'll second.

C

Second, all those in favor all right, all right, okay, and can we have I'll, make a motion then to approve.

E

uh 160 court street with no stipulations. Second, second, all those in favor all right.

B

Okay, so we have those, and now we have, uh let's do middle okay, four, four, two and four four.

B

Four middle street: okay, this one on the surface appears to be relatively straightforward.

F

But the devil's in the details- that's why it's here, these two chimneys are on this house, as shown.

F

In the image on the screen and in your packet, the applicant's proposing to remove those chimneys.

F

Presumably into the attic and then rebuild them in kind, using restoration, brick and lime based mortar.

F

So I don't really have an issue with it: oh, um but it was pulled out so who had a question on that.

E

I had a question because in the discussion that we had in december on faux chimneys, the question.

E

Was raised about, or I raised the issue that we make every effort to ask people when they have.

E

Original windows that they try to repair and restore those windows, and I think that we.

E

Should take the same approach to chimneys unless these chimneys there's something wrong with them.

E

They can't be repaired to just take them off and put faux ones up seems to be well. The question is.

E

Are these faux, I think it seems like these are just rebuilding the restoration bricks. I don't.

F

Think it's a veneer okay, so they're, not okay, they're, keeping the chimneys taking them down.

B

Underneath the roof and we build and rebuild them fargo. Where did you see that just to make.

F

Sure I'm not reading it wrong yeah! Well! No because uh I read they were going to repair the chimneys.

B

Underneath the roof- and maybe parts yeah, it's a restoration, brick, uh okay and I've showed them.

E

The bricks, okay, no problem, that makes sense. I thought they were taking them off. No, no they're.

F

Taking them off and putting them back with new brick, that's restoration, brick! So it's not a it's.

F

Not a faux chimney, it'll actually still function as a yeah and I'm good. Okay, I misunderstood thank.

E

You okay, so let's vote on that. One certainly would somebody have a motion I'll move that we approve.

C

uh This one was it four, forty four middle street, exactly all right, all those in favor.

B

All right, all those against all right now we have 99 bow street. What do we have here? Nick.

B

Okay, the applicant, as you know, uh mark mcnabb for the property was here. I believe the beginning in.

F

December could possibly have been earlier. I can't remember anymore, but this project was.

F

Approved for 99 bow street, with a stipulation that the the sculptured art be removed from what.

F

Was approved and resubmitted for administrative approval uh either as modified or in this case.

F

uh In defense of what was yeah, what was uh removed from that application back in.

F

December, so I believe terence, you out there um just to clarify this um discussion. Usually.

B

When somebody comes back with something we have either rejected or pushed off, it's a re-hearing.

B

They're asking for a re-hearing, but apparently we made a stipulation that he could come back.

B

With changes or no changes to the plan, and uh essentially we would look at it again.

B

So that's where we're at at this point- okay, um I I'm not seeing terrence is terence- are.

F

You out there somewhere in the hall, is there any discussion uh up here on this.

B

Do you want to discuss it mark? Well, john, I was. I was hoping that terrence would.

D

Come here and explain his letter to us, because I take issue with.

D

Some of the suggestions made in this letter, one that we're not qualified and the second more ugly.

D

Ugly statement was that we had a problem with the black sellers depicted in the image.

D

I really take offense to that. I we gave very clear, distinct comments that this was.

D

We had problems with the depiction of whaling.

D

And whaling was not well, we did have some whaling is portsmouth is not a whaling town.

D

So I can't support this. It's just uh you know I I was hoping terrence would come here and.

D

And talk speak to this, um I I just say that uh I stand by my other earlier position that.

D

This is not appropriate for portsmouth, based on the uh the whaling references, and that also.

D

When it comes to public art, public art is as a collaboration. It's not one person's.

D

Mission or statement so there has to be some collaboration involved so.

D

I stand by my position and will not support this.

B

uh And if anyone's interested, I have a couple books here which defend our position: uh port.

B

Of portsmouth ships and the cotton trade by ray brighton, if anyone wants to look at it, this other.

B

Book here is black portsmouth by valerie cunningham and both of them explain blackjacks.

B

Apparently, is a term that they use and the whaling situation in portsmouth, which essentially.

B

Was to bring oil here from other cities and process it for people to burn in their lamps.

B

But we didn't really send out whaling ships here. So to me, this is um also. I can't support it. um Yes,.

B

Reagan, yeah, and I just want to say it's too bad, um terence, isn't here. I appreciate his letter um and.

C

His need to sort of justify his artwork, which again is.

C

um Subject to um you know anybody's ideas or.

E

Opinions interpretations all of that stuff. It's very criticism.

C

It's very fluid, um and again and and I echo what martin said, we certainly didn't.

C

Refuse this on any racial basis or because we didn't like the art or we don't want art or we.

C

Don't appreciate the gift of art in portsmouth at all. It was simply that it was just a slight.

C

Skewing and in our opinion, a misrepresentation of what the history of portsmouth is. That's all.

C

And I have nothing against wales. I think whales do also represent a lot of marine life.

C

Just if, if there could be a little bit of a give or conversation.

C

About this, I didn't think that we were saying it's an a hard, no yeah for it all together. So.

B

um So at this point I think we should vote on this and um let him come back with uh something else.

C

What are we voting on um essentially we're voting on his uh wanting to place these, as previously.

I

Discussed reliefs, as previously approved, in other words, with no changes on both sides of the deck.

B

On 99 boosters, um that's what we're voting on it wasn't previously approved.

B

It was presented right previously presented and we put it off to for a rehearing okay.

B

And that's what we're having and I'm set to move on if everyone else is.

J

I anything I have to say about his letter he's right that we struggle with who, what.

G

Who is the group that's responsible with art, but I think he missed the concept that many of these.

G

Members brought up it's more ship building than anything else. Yeah, yes, well, there's also a future.

J

To this issue, we can't just look back so simply speaking, I wouldn't want the.

J

Sculpture to mislead people who are new to this town, to believe that we were actually a whaling.

J

City, yeah, very good. I think any lawyer could rationalize any argument to.

J

Suit his client and I think, while the letter is succinctly written.

J

I think it just provides a viewpoint that we already resolved was not an appropriate one.

B

Thank you. um Would somebody like to make a motion or david? Would you have anything okay.

B

Motion it's been said: should we make a motion? What would be the appropriate motion to this.

A

The emotion would be to not approve. um I will move that. We not approve this. Mr chairman, all right.

B

Second, second, all right, all those in favor all right: okay, moving on public hearing new business.

B

Petition of john c and jane c angelopoulos owners for property located at 36 state street, wherein.

B

Permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure, replace windows as per.

B

Plans on file in the planning department said: property is shown on assessor map 105 as lot.

B

9 lies within the character district, four and historic districts who is here to present this.

B

Please introduce yourself, john angelopoulos, all right. Welcome.

C

What are you doing here? Can you can you introduce what you want to do, not yourself the project.

B

I simply want to replace five windows. These windows were originally approved by the historic.

B

Commission, probably 30 years ago, they bought the building and they're failing the mountains.

G

Are falling off on the exterior? They were try their the old-fashioned these windows 30 years.

G

Ago, had these the window, the mountains were sort of put on and they were supports to. You know their.

G

Crap, basically, they rolled poverty um windows, 30 years old and they're, just they're deteriorating.

G

And falling apart and I just have to replace them, I was I spoke to um nick at the planning board. He.

G

Recommended um that, because I just simply want to you know, do whatever you guys want and, and.

G

Basically, he said the anderson 400 series would be agreeable, so that's what I presented these simply.

G

Be replacing the in uh there'll be nothing touched on the exterior just the interior trim will come.

G

Off your place will go in and be wood on the inside and I believe firebruck's on the outside.

B

So it's uh two windows on the side and three looking out over the back correct, and this is.

C

Just the that first floor or second, it's a second story, building yep all right.

B

So is there any mention of screens? Normally we request.

B

Half screens, half screens half screens not full screen well I'll see what they can do. I.

G

Guess does anderson have half screens? Yes, they do not a problem. Yeah. Okay, give me some money.

B

Anybody else have some discussion. No, I mean the the all those windows, the ones that you.

G

Want we have, we can't say that we're not going to tell you which windows to put in or which are you.

C

There we have a list of windows that we have approved and there are different windows that are.

C

Appropriate for different buildings, um this looks like a fairly modern addition to the building. It's.

G

30 years old, correct yeah, so I I think that an anderson window is fine here, um and I assume that.

C

It will be white and everything will match the trend. Correct there'll, be nothing that'll. Look.

G

There'll be no difference on the exterior or the interior. What on the inside and white on the out.

B

Correct um there's no other comments. I want to just clarify something: are we under 100 certain.

F

There's a spacer, oh and they're simulated, true simulated, divided lights, so there's a mountain on.

F

The outside inside and between the glass correct, I believe, that's the 400 series yeah, that's the 400.

G

Yes, yeah, I thought well, okay, yep, don't want it. I actually looked at them. I went yeah, that's correct.

G

Thanks um is there any? Member of the public uh would like to speak on this proposal.

B

And nobody's dinging online if the online works. I don't know.

F

Put your hand up if you'd like to speak, uh there is.

F

Nobody raising their hand. Okay, I'm going to close this, and would somebody make a proposal.

B

Please yeah I'll propose that we approve, as as presented with a half screen, stipulation.

E

Not a problem I'll. Second, all those in favor say uh you want your findings.

F

Yeah, that would be good the findings of fact. It preserved the integrity of the district and is.

E

Compatibility design with surrounding properties there we go okay, so all those in favor say aye aye,.

J

Again, you have your approval all right. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

B

And moving on to work sessions, old business, I've got some uh to postpone here.

B

So I think um I'm going to uh read should do I read these whole things nick, I think you can read.

B

The address to postpone petition a 64 vaughan, mall llc owner for property located at 64 vaughn street.

B

That's under public hearings, old business and then work sessions, old businesses request to postpone.

B

Work session requested by gregory j, morneau and amanda b, morneau owners.

B

For property located at 137, north west street and then an under work sessions, new business.

B

Request to postpone by 129 state street llc owner for property located at 129 state street.

B

So if we would have a motion to still move can, can I just say something: quick about 137 north.

B

Yes, please hold on. Thank you. They would only get one more bite at the apple. They chose not to come.

F

They've been made aware, they need to resubmit start over, so that one will be uh a withdrawal.

F

Don't include that in your postponement, okay, we'll just postpone to indeterminate dates or until.

F

It's refiled as a public hearing how about that? Fine, okay! So all right, I move that we postpone.

C

64 von mall and um 129 state street seconded okay, all those in favor all right all right.

B

Okay, there we go now, we've just we're half done already we're in the work session. We've got this.

B

Work session, so we have one we're requested by one marines avenue that looks like it's net.

B

Llc 31 rains llc 203, maplewood avenue, llc owners for property located at 1 rains avenue.

B

31 rains avenue and 203 maplewood avenue, wherein permission is requested to allow the construction.

B

Of a four to five story: mixed-use building and a five-story hotel, as per plans on file.

B

In the planning department said, property is shown on assessor map 123 lot 14 map 123 lot.

B

13 map 123 lot 12 lies within character, district 4. districts, um who's here to speak on this and.

B

Work sessions should we go down down it's up to you, I'm okay with it. If you are do, but if.

H

You're socially distancing I can present from here it's up to you. I mean we're not all that.

C

Distant right now, so, okay, that's fine! I don't know what do you want to? Do? I'm happy to go down. Okay,.

C

We have all our masks unless anybody else, no matter either. One yeah I'll go down.

B

Just hold your breath the whole time, please, okay, thank you.

G

Thank you. I have to.

F

So I have to share the so carl: let's speak a little louder. Oh I'm sorry! Yeah and pull a mic.

F

Over a little closer pull that over if you're a quiet, talker, yes well with the.

H

Mask on I'm, I am, I just have to share this amusing anecdote that um 36 your approval.

H

Tonight, 36th straight street was my very first presentation in front of this board 30 years ago.

H

So I am the one who had that approved what kind of windows harvey's.

H

No there weren't they've, I I don't know that we even specified back then.

H

I don't think we did yeah, um so evan tormey is joining us. Do you have him on the speak loudly.

F

Everybody and if anybody's going to scream, pull those towards you if people are going to talk.

H

So everyone can hear you is evan on the line. um You have him evan.

F

uh Yes and he's been promoted, but he's muted. Okay, do you want him to speak now or.

H

No, but he he's on the line speak right now, but and now he's unmuted. uh Can you hear us evan.

I

I can, can you hear me yes, very well, perfect, all right, all right, evan is joining us. I think from.

H

Colorado montana, I'm montana montana, okay. Well, I'm certainly a new englander for making that mistake.

H

Okay, um so uh I did put this cover letter on here to sort of focus our um tasks for this evening.

H

uh We wanted to, as we discussed in the last work session, we want to be sure to go through step, two.

H

Massing on the hotel building and then just sort of revisit the massing of the mixed use. um I do.

H

It would be really helpful to the design team if we could get some feedback on architectural style.

H

Because the building type plays an integral role in the development of massing and we really want.

H

To try to move forward jointly on that, we have a um you know, a client here that is.

H

Really partial to a more modern style building, so we're trying to respect that.

H

Respect his wishes for a more modern building in this location and.

H

We just want to sort of. Are you starting on that? No, no, I'm doing a quick review here.

H

And then so, 1.0 of this reviews, the building footprints 2.0, is the massing.

H

Sort of 360 around the hotel building 3.0 is is an intro to some possible styles and the.

H

4.0 series gets into some design updates that the team has been working on for the mixed use.

H

Building and then we did improve the connectivity um in the landscape plan between the uh buildings.

H

And the greenway and then we just included the usual reference pages. So do you want me to just.

H

Go section by section and we can talk in between or do you want me to go through the whole thing.

H

I think there's something that I'd like to say. Okay, after discussing this with some other people,.

B

And that I realized what you just said about your client and I think a lot of us are uncomfortable.

B

With the style and design of the project and we're wondering if it's time to break this mold of.

B

Masonry, metal, metal and a little more masonry here and there and you know essentially getting.

B

All of your design out of projecting bays and calling that good enough, um I think.

B

That I would like to say, and if anyone else wants to chime in that.

B

Especially like the condo building, which is very visible from bridge, I mean from the bridge.

B

That you might want to think about rerouting to more of a traditional style on this structure.

B

Maybe using the material that you used on court street, something like that.

B

So the only reason I want to bring this up now is because you'll start with.

B

This project, with the design that you've chosen and the only thing we do then, is start nipping.

B

Away at little things, but we're still stuck with what you propose, and I think that in this location,.

B

There's a lot of problems with that and with that I'll, stop yes! Well, I just was asking I.

C

Just wanted to ask how many people you're speaking for um a few well? Could we get their actual words.

C

Because I would like to speak, I don't necessarily you don't agree agree. No, I think this. This has.

C

Been a location in town where, from our past north end, tourette's a lot of people in the community.

C

Agreed that this was an area for contemporary architecture and design, also an area for smaller.

B

Buildings on the water- and I agree with that point- I agree with too um that was going to be one of my.

C

Comments so I so I don't necessarily think that we need to be pushing a more traditional design. This.

C

Is the this is their design that they're bringing to us? um I don't think we should be telling.

C

Them how to design their buildings, so I think we necessarily agree. Would anyone else like to speak.

B

Yes, margaret.

E

I think the main issue for me the same as I had for the project on.

E

Green was it address on green street. This is too big for the location on.

E

The mill pond, if this were further set back, I wouldn't have a problem with the mass, but.

E

This is right on the pond, so I have an issue with mass to start off with regarding design aesthetic.

E

Just a general statement would be I'm fine with contemporary, but I would like it to have its own.

E

Unique characteristics and I'd like it to have its own voice right now,.

E

These are just beginning to look like cookie cutter, slightly different versions of other things.

E

It's right on the edge it's a gateway building.

E

If it's going to be contemporary, I'm fine with that, but I'd like it to sing.

B

All right um david- um I'm not here because of my sense of modernist architecture and.

A

I'm sure you all understand that um in lieu of hewing something from wood on the site, I.

A

I I would be more comfortable uh to see elements from our community reflected in the building.

A

Elements that I think of georgia architecture had on an orderly expression of fenestration.

A

Windows were were part of a rhythm uh rather than than design elements by themselves.

A

uh I think I would like to see something that had a major thing that I I looked for in buildings.

A

Is is a ceremonial, if not and for any other reason, entryway that people, the trick-or-treat rule that.

A

A nine-year-old kid with a pumpkin and bag in their hand would know what door to knock on.

A

And we laugh, no, I get it absolutely um again in my historic georgian and federal architecture, there.

A

Was a celebrated entryway on most buildings and and and I I missed that in in modern buildings,.

A

I think I I generally don't get the feeling that there's a thing there welcoming me a thing.

A

There driving my attention and it's usually the design, a design centers around that, uh unlike a.

A

Thing that some modern architecture is free-flowing, uses the roof lines.

A

And projections to describe themselves there's another kind of language of delineated corners.

A

And rhythm and fenestration: that's what I would be comfortable with. I don't know that this is much of.

A

A fun moment for you, I mean considering what you started with, but but that's me.

H

Right and that's what we're, I think that um you know each one of you represents some is.

H

Ideally representing some faction of portsmouth, so that you know that you're representing the public.

H

And this you know, the historic district is a is a really key keystone piece of the community.

H

And you know it's really difficult with these peripheral sort of modern locations, because.

H

You know you really can do something different in a historic area and it's a real challenge to.

H

Kind of to come up with exactly what that design approach is going to be. That will that you, we all.

H

Agree can be modern. Most of us agree that it can be modern, seems to be a majority, but it has to be.

H

A certain kind of modern, as defined by a historic past, and I think, that's a tricky.

D

Tricky little thing, yeah go ahead, go ahead! No, please.

J

The way I approach.

J

Viewing what we have done in the past in order to gain an understanding of.

J

Where we should be going- or at least in terms of my own vision, I can help but feel that so many.

J

Of the projects that we actually have approved would simply fail my standards and when I look.

J

At the gyrations we have gone through frequently also at the behest of our own discussions, where.

J

We add a turret here, you know something else here. I call it portsmouth baroque, but I don't call any.

J

Of it not just definitely not great architecture, but most of it is not even good architecture. So we.

J

Get back to a kind of discussion- and we shouldn't have this now: what constitutes good architecture.

E

You know so if we go to the modern style, I would refer people to scarper the italian architect.

J

Or a very well-known mexican architect, whose name you need to guess now, but so much of what I see.

J

In portsmouth just doesn't doesn't even cut the grade. I don't even understand how it got improved.

J

And so my my own personal way of moving forward is simply to understanding the dynamic.

J

Of what you present to the htc and then what the hdc does to those designs and all of a sudden we.

J

Literally have buildings by committee, but not by an architect, who might also be an artist and.

J

The failures are all around us. um Thank you for pointing out our failures. Oh we're condemned to.

A

This, then, by all districts. um Well, this is this is tough. I think you can find thread the needle.

D

And have a modern building, but it doesn't have to be an abstract, modern building. Maybe a modern.

D

Building that with some human elements and some order and formality- and you have examples that you.

D

You sight, you have one sheets, 3.0, 3.1 3.2 and I don't even want to mention 3.3, because I'm not.

D

I'm hoping we don't go in that direction, which I'm trying to see in what you're proposing. I think all.

D

Of these are modern, um some are just modern in a way. That's that's. Has references to history.

D

Has form formalities, it has balance and rhythm hierarchy, it has corner elements, it has a.

D

You know it, it has the kind of elements. I think this project needs.

D

If, if you look at 3.1, I think a great example is the upper left-hand corner. That's exactly.

B

The one I've been looking at the whole thing. I think that that's a successful project.

H

And what? What is it that draws you to that one, because that seems to be.

D

Water, okay, there is yeah, there is some balance order. um It's got a corner element in it, uh so.

A

You get a focal point out of it, I'm sorry it just it. I wasn't expecting you to jump right into there.

A

I'm excited that's okay! I just I just think we need to lean more towards that. Okay, um 3.2.

D

You know I I could see something on the lower right hand, corner I'd hate to see an upper.

D

Left-Hand corner, which we're kind of seeing now there's there's a modern architecture. That's.

D

Good because it it it really, it really adheres to the principles and fundamentals of modernism.

D

And then there's modern architectures there, because it's a cheaper way to construct.

D

And I hope we don't go there mm-hmm, it's modern with the big m and the little m yeah exactly.

D

Exactly so, I you know the fact that you provided these sheets uh tells me that you know you can.

D

See that there that we can find a middle ground here, we can find a place to arrive. I think we.

D

Just want a modern architecture, that's got some historic references it. It doesn't have to say.

D

Portsmouth, which I don't know what is portsmouth but at least should say new england. You know.

H

Right, I see what you mean. I think dan you're, the only one that hasn't uh chimed in on this.

B

Well, I'm taking struggling to learn my modern architecture and.

G

I'm accepting it more and more um especially with some balance and some highlights, so I tried that.

G

3.1 upper left, as as one of my favorites, um because it's on the edge of things, though I still.

G

I'm still gonna have some problems with mass, a hotel. I don't mind, that's back and I can.

G

Mass a little bigger, but that the corner is gonna, be one to to put all five stars on there.

G

That's going to be uh as a pronounced corner, you mean yeah yeah,.

G

Yeah and I'll just chime in again I mean I I didn't mean to turn it off.

C

Yes, and and obviously that one that we're all looking at is for reference, please don't make that.

C

Building here, because that's not appropriate for portsmouth, but yes the order. The details, the the.

C

Trim, you know all these things that are reflected, but it's obviously a modern building. I mean.

C

I think I think that there are ways to do that here with brick and masonry, even with a little.

C

Bit of metal here and there, um but to go to, I also don't think this location you couldn't build a.

C

Totally traditional building here, because you're already surrounded by very contemporary buildings,.

C

And it would just not work in its context. I agree with that. So um the massing is a different.

C

Discussion, I also still think that it needs to be brought down as it goes as it faces the water.

C

But I can, I can get behind this yeah it's. It is a I've always said this. It's an incredibly hard.

C

um Thing to achieve to be contextual in a historic um area and and context, but make a building still.

C

Look like it was built in 20 in the early 2020s right because 50 years from now 100 years from now.

C

That's what is going to be more appreciated, a building that reflects its time. Not that is some.

C

Fake uh right, you know a fantasy of something a hundred years before that's fantasy. It kind.

C

Of is a fantasy, but martin, I I forgot. I wanted to address the mass in scale. um I don't for what you.

D

Have for mass and scale, I have no problem with it, because I've looked at the north end study.

D

And then I see these beautiful renderings of buildings, almost touching the water.

D

And we're way back, you dare do that and and right people who promote those studies be the first one.

D

To challenge you on being in the buffer right, so you know those. I saw those great cute little.

D

Buildings all the way up to the water two-story buildings in the buffer. Why can't we do that? No.

D

uh Anyway, so with massing and scale, if, if I'm just looking at this strictly for massing in scale, I.

D

Can't accept it. Thank you, I think. Can I interrupt here um I'd be interested, I think not just.

A

This commission, but a people that watch because you know how big the viewership is.

E

But tell me about the buffer, because before I right before I knew there was.

A

A buffer you know, because I'm old right, but before I knew there was a buffer. I.

A

Really thought I was a david holden, acolyte, yeah and, and I wanted to see things- uh the city rise up.

A

From the water, like you know, in imaginary, boston without rose wharf, um but and we're not getting.

A

That and and I'm under the impression that it's because of the buffer and right and so there's.

A

Something about the buffer that makes it the third rail of architecture in this community.

H

Could you please articulate that there are um a few uh appeals going on for buildings that.

H

Have been uh permitted in the buffer with the lower um lower massing in the buffer.

H

So this building that we're proposing doesn't is isn't having a step down toward the water. It's.

H

Actually, removing all structure between it and the water, uh as opposed to having a lower area.

H

Within the buffer and then as of our last meeting, the top floor was drastically pulled back so that.

H

That that top floor is really almost imperceivable from the perimeter I mean. Obviously you can see.

H

It's there, but it's it makes a huge difference. You know that by looking at any of the buildings that.

H

Step back at to that degree in town, it really does minimize that impact so.

H

Rather than stepping down toward and into the hundred foot buffer, uh the the team thought that.

H

Another massing strategy that would really pull it back was to you know, pull that all in so.

H

I mentioned the appeals for people who are in the hundred foot buffer, so we're really working very.

H

Hard to stay out of that evan did you want to add anything because you've been uh spearheading the.

H

Planning board buffer uh situation. I just want to give you an opportunity to speak about it.

H

Is he there thanks carla? No, I I think you you, that was very well said. um We did receive a conditional.

I

Use permit and planning board approval for this design, keeping the buildings out of the buffer.

I

On the north mill pond at the planning board meeting last month, there is a very small sliver.

I

Of the building fronting on maplewood avenue, that's within the 100 foot buffer, but obviously.

I

Maplewood avenue is between the building and the pond in that instance, and we are respecting the.

I

Maximum setback uh on maplewood avenue and that creates that little bit of sliver of.

I

One-Story building that's within the buffer, that's an unusual light. I think I understand what he was.

B

Saying is crosstalk 300 feet is measured from the mill pond on the other side of maplewood avenue.

B

That's correct so you cross over maple avenue and there's still 20 or 30 feet and you're just.

B

Slivering you're touching that very unusual, so uh it kind of takes the preciousness away from the.

B

Buffer, when you have cars going by every second yeah, when yeah maplewood's driving through it.

B

So not to mention the causeway collapsing, you know and all of that.

B

um Well, I just wanted to bring up the discussion before we got too heavily involved in one design.

B

Okay, because I I personally myself, I'm not going to comment on the the design, but what.

B

Frequently happens with us, is you start off and then you say well. This is what we want.

B

With the balconies and then essentially at that point, we're frozen, you know we're.

B

Nibbling at light fixtures, and we want to have the store fronts and- and things like that and.

B

So I thought it would be better to get it out in the open. Now that's what this is for me. So if you.

B

Want to go, go on! That's fine! Well, you've still got the hotel and such yes, um and so that's kind of.

H

Why how we formatted this presentation was to move through the hotel massing, which we deliberately.

H

Did not discuss last time and then any other sort of comments we want to go over, which we just did.

H

I think to some degree on this 100-foot buffer influence was, you know, revisiting the.

H

The residential or mixed use piece, um uh but I think we'd want to kind of. We would like.

H

To take that same tour, 360 tour around the hotel that we took around the other building last time.

H

And just get your feedback on that and then you know we did have some design ideas and then.

H

I think you know we really wanted to get an idea on the style that you would all.

H

That you're envisioning, so because that is, if we're really zeroing in on the final.

H

Massing tonight I we want to be prepared. We don't want to guess at the next meeting we.

H

Want to be prepared, what are your expectations and your thoughts? Moving into that next phase,.

H

So um looking at 2.0 you can, you have a uh view over the bridge and you can see.

H

The hotel massing peeking out from the left. um I think the colors help a little bit to.

H

You know see how it's been broken up coming down, rain dave there. It is next to the um next to 3s.

H

And north millpond view, through the between the two buildings to the north mill pond, uh you can.

H

See how if this is more of a subtractive, carving kind of uh of a look for the hotel.

H

And we really haven't discussed whether or not we really want these two buildings to.

H

Look the same, I'm leaning towards no just because I think that would be a lot of the same building.

H

I'm going to start to look like the bozarts in washington dc or something.

H

Just so moving on 2.3 gives you a view between 3s and a little public space and 2.4 continuing.

H

Around um introduced a little a bit more of two stronger vertical elements and then.

H

uh Carving away around them, I think, has a nice effect to sort of modulate what's happening. There.

H

And you can see, the base is solid from this view, with the uh exception of just the.

H

Vehicular entrance, but the rest is solid, uh close up on 2.5 of that happening.

H

Could I just ask a question uh a vehicular entrance? This is a separate.

B

Underground parking or first story parking, then another building, yes yeah. This is a completely.

H

Separate vehicle, yes um and again, we're right on north mill pond, so we're not really going down 2.6.

H

You can see, we've introduced some screening elements between the green space.

H

Park and the that facade facing the water on both sides, where there is just that little.

H

Bit of parking remaining on grade so we've introduced some landscape screening and then.

H

That is our massing for the hotel and where we would be moving on to the uh architectural.

H

Design, inspiration, so did we want to stop and talk about that, or did we already talk about it.

C

Kind of talked about- I I stand by what I said about mass at the very beginning. So to start there.

E

In terms of the shape of the mass of the hotel to me, it reads as one very very big block and.

E

Although I'm not an expert in architectural style, this style, this blockiness, the cubes it it reads.

E

Brutal to me, without some of the very very heavy elements that brutal sometimes brings- and I just.

E

Wonder carla is that what you were going for well at this point, we're using the volumes and just.

H

Sort of applying color to be able to separate them. Do you know what I'm saying using color as opposed.

H

To um changing materials because it just looks patchworky, so I don't know if I'm using it. So it's.

E

uh It's a way to take the cube and break it up so that it doesn't appear to be such a big cube.

E

Yes, okay, so in a way, the fact that it still reads to me is a really big cube.

E

Okay says that nice try, but it's still a really big cube, and so my question is.

E

Does it have to be this big a cube? Is there some way to reorganize the cube.

E

So that you get the cubid you want without it. Looking like a big cube.

G

That wasn't that's a rhetorical question. It doesn't have to be answered right here.

E

Right: okay in terms of massing, yes, reagan,.

C

I agree a lot of this. um However, I I think the taller massing pushed against rains avenue side.

C

Is better for the street framing, um however, it really.

C

Because you haven't really, I mean I, I see what you're trying I see what you're saying before with.

C

Colors and trying to break it up, so it's not one big white mask because we're obviously right like.

H

Right if you were marshmallows but right, but and so it's not necessarily the style that you're.

C

Proposing it's just breaking up, pushing pulling um eroding I'd I'd love to see a little bit of a pull.

C

Somehow, to pull it down towards 3s, I mean at this point at 2.3. It really just makes 3s just tiny and.

C

Squat and so like what you did with the hotel on the other side, where it steps down towards.

C

The small building, um if there's any way and and maybe it mean it- needs to be a covered, something.

C

uh On the first floor, to just make it step down a little bit so that it's not a very, very tall.

C

Wall next to a tiny building, um some sort of mitigating factor, yeah yeah and then again.

C

I understand that we're not in the buffer you're, not up against the water, so we're.

C

Not looking for a tiny building against the water, however, uh that that one spot.

C

That sticks out I mean looking at 2.5 that sticks out and faces the back. There.

C

I feel like, even if you could erode, that little corner away, even just the one bay or something.

C

To make balconies on the front or something so that it it's you get the idea of it. Stepping down.

C

A little bit, um I think, will will help with just that that feeling of really tall, boxy building.

C

There right it is boom stepping on that, as it is stepping there, but he didn't lose the story.

C

Even just like that one more little step, okay, thank you david. Thank you, mr chairman,.

A

I have no desire to be negative. I don't want to be abusive. I I don't just. This is hard for me to.

A

Look at if I had a client that was paying me to build a building the size of this thing. I'd want.

A

Him to be absolutely proud of it, absolutely proud of every damn brick and nail in it.

A

And I wouldn't do anything to mask its magnificence at all.

A

The idea of- and I know, you're just doing colors to try to to start that theme. But the point.

A

Is why that theme? Why are we not just exuberant about this building? Why.

A

Why does this building.

A

Who would want to live in something that looks like this?.

C

I've got a tiny little hovel at the end of gate street. I love it.

A

I don't I don't want to do anything to mask any of it. um I just don't see the point.

A

And I'm struggling, I really do I've got it. I'm struggling it's my own struggle, but but I I can't.

A

Help but say this I'm here this is my opportunity. We have a little cottage hospital that was built.

A

Was built and then improved enlarged, but both times they built a thing with dependencies.

A

It's a style been repeated many times in portsmouth, this public housing.

A

Is the only time anybody built like anything like this in portsmouth.

A

I mean there's a monster of a building on on on what state street that uh the rockingham hotel.

A

It's a monstrosity, but it's got balance and it's got pieces and parts of it that.

A

Are reflective of pieces and parts of our community has more than one doorway.

A

It's got a big one, um just to make sure that no one missed it. They put lions there.

A

I got it, the metaphor isn't lost on me, but but they were proud of that entire thing.

A

Christ he had his own effing face, put on the building. He was that proud of it. This right here.

A

This is like putting a garbage bag over someone's head mm-hmm. Those are my comments. I'm sorry, okay,.

A

I started off with a paul, I'm not trying to be abusive. Well, if you look at 3.2.

H

On the upper left, I mean that is you know a way of doing that sort of carving and I've heard early.

H

On in the meeting that that was not what you're favoring, so you know that's kind of what we were.

H

Talking about there's got to be another two. Well I mean that's a that's the same sort of carving away.

H

Of the cube and sort of eroding um that you are beginning to see in this massing treatment. But if.

H

That's not your, you know the direction that we've heard. That's why three, the three series is here.

H

If that that's gotten it don't go in that direction, then I think you know that's a.

H

Good, that's a good message. You know we're in messing, so thank you very much. Yeah. No, no worries.

B

But the style we've also, you know: we've started discussion of the style on the on the mapoid.

B

Avenue, yes, right, right, okay, anybody else want to yeah go ahead! No, please! Okay! What troubles me.

J

Mostly, is that our sense of aesthetics and balance has totally eroded that's the way it seems to me.

J

First of all, an adjective lie beautiful. I couldn't apply to any of these proposals, nor to many.

J

Many of the buildings that we have built in the past and that actually were approved by the hdc.

J

What do you think about these photo signs? Any of those? No, it doesn't speak to me. I mean it's just.

J

Like you know, I find it everywhere and there's nothing lasting about it. It's a statement of what.

J

Methodologies and new construction methods are capable of doing, and builders.

J

And companies will take advantage of that, but that doesn't really have anything to do with aesthetics.

J

So what they're, they're even contorting, some people might say.

J

This is bauhaus bowers introduced us to this venue. The bombers didn't introduce us to this venue.

J

Methods of constructions, new discoveries.

J

Of materials, plastics, etc. All of that contributes to this, and we take advantage of that.

J

To get the most economic benefit out of a building per square foot, irrespective.

J

Of how people feel about it, it's driven simply by the balance sheet. That's what I object to.

E

The rockingham you know on state street wasn't produced by a balance sheet. There was something.

J

More to it- and I don't see any of that quote unquote more in what we're proposing here.

H

Or in any of our possibilities, yeah, no, it's just it's all! It's crap.

J

You know we have varying opinions. Do you want? I see yeah, wait. John.

F

It probably makes sense uh for me at least it would heinze. Can you clarify that.

F

All 16 images are crap versus. Well, I think the point. Well, I don't I'm necessarily talking about.

J

What uh is shown on pages, historically speaking, I didn't think you did but she's asking you are.

F

There any of the 16 that you would find more suitable for representation. Well, I said that.

H

Now, I'm getting into sort of a grading kind of contest in terms of oh, this might be a 7.2.

J

And maybe this is a 7.6, you know it, it doesn't speak to me right. It will work right.

B

We understand I really do martin, I think, just to help summarize. I've heard some very good comments.

D

Here and passion about this, and I think what you we would like to see or some of the consensus.

D

Here is a more formal architecture, it can be modern, but we like a formality to it right now,.

D

We're just seeing a box with a couple of layers stuck on it to sort of give it some articulation.

D

Also the first floor, the the way it meets the ground. I think that will be really important.

D

Is and how it relates to 3s, because right now, um I'm not sure are those storefronts or the.

D

Garage doors, are they? uh What am I, which elevation? Are you looking at? uh Let's, let's say uh 2.38.

D

Because right now, they're very alien looking and I'm not saying that this could be a gymnasium.

B

That's good the lobby, the hotel lobby area- okay, maybe something that's that brings it down and.

D

Gives you more of a of a porch in that area of more of a human scale? Just so, I think I think.

D

We're looking for a base of middle and a top and some formalities and and less abstraction, okay,.

D

Am I wrong? No that's a good way of saying base middle and top is very basic, uh so uh I I would.

B

Just like to say- and I this goes back to a year ago, when this was first brought up- that.

B

In my opinion, this is the most valuable site in portsmouth this land, overlooking the water.

B

Is you're just so incredibly lucky to to even be working on this, and I just really think that.

B

These buildings should be a legacy building for our our builder for the hotel company.

B

And for yourself, so that this is something that you'll put on your wall say well, I designed this.

B

And we've said that before and I think other buildings that we've said it about has.

B

Worked so that's that's my opinion and I think that we might be looking for.

B

Comments from the public and then we're just going to move on. I just want to give evan a.

H

Chance to speak, if he has anything else to say, or are you certainly you could yeah evan.

I

No, I I think we appreciate the feedback, and that was our goal tonight was to to discuss.

I

This hotel building, and also some of the you know the inspirational or you know, potentially.

I

Inspirational images get your feedback so that we can, you know, go back to the buildings and.

I

Really look at how we can better organize them and detail them. You know with the acknowledgement that.

I

You know the massing is more or less there or we have some comments from tonight of how we might.

I

Need to adjust it adjacent to 3s and looking towards the middle pond on the hotel building.

H

And just dig into the style now. Thank you. So is anyone in the public? Would you like to speak.

B

And don't forget to introduce yourself.

K

Pictures to read in the bathroom when you're- oh thank you for watching thanks a lot.

K

I think doesn't I think, there's enough for everybody if you'd like to take one and pack, it.

G

I need one for nick. I wanted to make sure you got mine. Yes, we did okay, because there was computer.

K

Issues. Sorry, well, you guys are all too close. Now elizabeth bradder good evening, elizabeth bradder.

K

Property owner of 159 mcdonald street, the massing of the mixed use building was mentioned briefly.

K

At the december 1st meeting, but not resolved and some style recommendations were made, the mixed.

K

Use building is the first building that is seen passing many historic buildings on maplewood ave.

K

Some of the maple at stepping could come around the corner. On the waterfront side, the mixed use.

K

Building will sit high on this property because it has a 12 foot grade which will raise it up to.

K

72 feet compared to the 20 to 40 feet existing on the other buildings, based on the fact that the ac.

K

Hotel 145, maplewood and even 53 green street all stepped down to two or three stories. It would.

K

Be a rational conclusion that the same would be encouraged for this lot, which you obviously did.

K

The style presented has nothing to do with the historic north end, much less. It's ship building.

K

Irish and italian history, the presented improvements to the mixed use, building.

K

Still look very sterile. The awnings that were added to the top are very nice. The awning added.

K

In the back is plain, and straight and black, the houses that existed on the north end had.

K

I please excuse me, because I don't do architecture, so this is all stolen off the net.

K

Cornices with decorative scrolls and finally, tuscan columns and vertical decorative boards.

K

Let's talk about the massing of the hotel, it does not seem to follow htc guidelines at all the lot.

K

Is surrounded by a pond a ground level city park, a 1.5 story; three arts, art space at the bottom of.

K

A hill and this five-story hotel should step down to three stories where it is parallel to the three.

K

Stories on 145 maplewood and gradually lower to two stories as it passes, 3s art state space and.

K

Moves around the corner to the abutting city park that would really be in the neighborhood context.

K

On this part of the north end, all of the larger structures stepped down to 3s artstrace and to the.

K

Waterfront, including 53 green strip, which steps down to two stories and gradually steps upward.

K

Away from the water noble's, islands has two-story structures. Maplewood ave has his historic.

K

Buildings and across the pond there are two-story homes in the context of the neighborhood per per.

K

The hdc guidelines, the architectural style currently presented, seems like a colored box.

K

When you look at plan 4.0, the buildings are 70s modern, which could work in some parts.

K

Of portsmouth, they should not be be presented as this in a significant historical district.

K

Where the decor on the facades should include historical elements in sighting.

K

Which complement the historic characteristic of the location? This area was known for ship railing.

K

A mill and some whiskey making all involving wood the added wood dividers between the upper decks.

K

On the on the mixed use, building look very nice and that wood motif could be brought down to the.

K

Lower levels in the form of some awnings over the windows or decorative molding or even rain caps.

K

The doorways could have columns, or even dock pilings or vertical planks on the sides.

K

And there could be awnings over the doors that could be supported with decorative wood.

K

Or some other some of the the I don't know what they're called. But if you drive around portsmouth.

K

The a lot of people have over their houses. They have um these things. That kind of lean up against.

K

The the thing that goes over the front door, but those type of things, would be nice. You could have.

K

That with a modern architecture and then have those things underneath it some of the modern.

K

Buildings on plan 3.2 show modern siding, but some of it looks similar to wood and it would give.

K

That modern feel without taking away from the historical context, so you could have modern.

K

With the old, the tacky parade, mall replacement of the historical homes in the north end and the hdc.

K

Formed to encourage historically favorable development, no more mall styles, please in.

K

The architecture more in these significantly historical areas. Thank you very much for your time.

K

And I think you guys did a great job having those elements brought up. Who else would like to speak.

B

Could we keep this a brief if possible, yeah? This will be. This will be pretty brief. uh My name is.

G

Peter whale I live at 100 gate street. um Just a couple comments I mean I, when you look at this.

G

Site this is one of the most historic sites in portsmouth. The ancient boys rain house was.

G

On this property there was over 75 clipper ships that were built on the north mill pond. There.

G

And across from that is actually the jackson house that was built in 1664., it's.

G

The oldest wood structure in portsmouth, so just a comment on massing. I I think.

G

These boxes are just boxes, it's like any other architecture anywhere in the usa,.

G

And I think a lot more work could be done to step these down. So you have two story or two.

G

And a half story buildings along that mill pond, I think we've got to be respectful of the history.

G

Here in portsmouth and that site in portsmouth is one of the most historic sites in this town.

D

I mean shifts were launched that went all over the world from that one site.

G

So I think, there's a lot more work to be done. I voted against this on the planning board. When I.

G

Was on it in the last term, and my reason was- was that this hadn't, even gotten in front of the htc.

G

With passing- and here we are at the planning board, approving a project that hadn't we didn't even.

G

Know what the hotel was going to look like, so um I think a lot of work has to be done.

G

And I appreciate all your hard work and dedication to doing this. Thank you thanks a lot. Thank you.

H

Esther kennedy 41 pickering ave. First of all, I want to thank you for the discussion. I thought.

D

It was a great discussion to hear and listen to um you know. I heard you say that stepping down to the.

G

Water and I think you need to look at the process- the whole area as one big project and I think.

G

This building needs to step down to the water, hence the reason it needs to be two.

G

Two stories um and then you'll have the visual. I think that I heard so much of you speak up.

G

Tonight uh I just want to remind you all that the first thing people see coming to portsmouth.

A

Is going to be this building? The last thing people see leaving portsmouth is going to.

D

Be this building, so we it's a historicalist area, we've heard from everyone that you know.

G

It but, let's think about the step up and make this building the step up into the north end. Thank you.

G

All right, thank you.

B

A familiar looking face, thank you. um Paige trace, 27 hancock street.

G

I wanted to take one second to speak out of turn regarding the.

G

Artwork because I sat on this board when the decision was made about that.

G

I know that there's not one of you here that would have made that decision based on anything remotely.

G

Having to do with race- and I find it ugly- that this town has gone to that point- where any one.

G

Of us, as residents would bring up that issue, so I have your backs and I don't often agree with mr.

G

Ryan, but tonight god bless you, you said it and you said it eloquently, so I thank you, sir.

G

For having my back when I'm not sitting with you anymore, so thank you um as to this.

G

I would suggest at some point you go back to the pro con slide of 2.0, because, oddly enough.

G

2.0, when you, when you zoom in on it, the hotel building, has five windows in a row, not four.

G

So either there's a problem there. um If you look next to the car the little tiny car anyway, neither.

G

Here nor there I realize that what we have is a collision course with dollars and cents.

G

And the last historic part of portsmouth and please I ask you to hold your line on the massing.

G

Because it's too much too big and not very appropriate right next to the north mill pond.

G

And I don't think mr boyd would have liked it to think that his home no longer exists and.

G

That's the idea that we have for portsmouth, but anyway, I know that you'll all do your job.

G

And I can't thank you enough and good luck thanks. Thank you. Thanks for your two years,.

B

uh I think mr boyd would be upset that uh his house was torn down and a gas station was put.

B

There original um so that's it. I think you've heard uh a lot of opinions and very helpful yeah.

B

I think the word maybe formality with mr ryan came up with.

H

I think we've successfully framed our next step, so that was the purpose here for tonight. So.

H

We'll see you another time, yes, a couple of more sessions from you, nope hang on john. There might.

F

Be a handshake one sec. There might be a hand raised here. Oh, let me make sure there's nobody.

F

Else that wants to speak. Oh sorry, I'm sorry, you haven't got your full amount of thrashing. Yet.

F

So bill downey has his hand up. uh If you can let bill in kevin.

I

Okay, can you hear me yep go ahead, uh nick good save I was. I was afraid you forgot us here. um I.

F

Did I'm very hardened tonight by the way bill downey 67 bow street to hear the reference to.

F

The charette, which was, I think, 14 and 15, and just the tremendous amount of investment the.

F

Citizens put towards that in the empowerment, and I was glad reagan you had mentioned that.

F

And also margot, I think this is. I agree. This is just too big. It has no definition.

F

It reminds me of a dormitory. It looks a lot like durham, some of those real boxes there, and I just.

F

Think we need to have a higher scale of definition of integrity and I think it's it's a disservice.

F

To um to present this, and and one of the last opportunities to really tie this together,.

F

And to the neighbors across the street, those beautiful historic homes are just getting.

F

Dwarfed so again, um I really appreciate some of your comments tonight and heartened um and.

F

And I hope you can hold the line on this, because this is a significant property. We all know that.

F

And we have a tremendous opportunity to engage the citizens on this property.

F

And really make it a gateway property that engages citizens, and it's not just.

F

Public benefit or amenities for the tenants, so thank you for your time, hi. Thank you.

C

B

B

So this looks like a work session c. Does that sound right, nick, yes, uh requested by.

B

Port harbor land llc owner for property located at 2 russell street and zero deer street two lock.

B

Wearing permission is requested to allow the construction of a new freestanding structure.

B

Three to five story: mixed-use building, as for plans on file in the planning department,.

B

Said properties are shown on assessor map 124 as lot 12 map 118 as lot 28 and map 125 as lot 21.

B

And lie within the character district, 5, downtown overlay, historic district who's here to present.

B

This work session, hi brook slocum uh with sga ryan plumber with two international group, certainly all.

I

Right, so uh should we start in yeah sure um we've been with in front of you, I think twice before.

I

We're kind of doing a reset of the second meeting to some degree, because we had some massing.

I

Adjustments due to some of your code requirements and some other things that we.

I

Needed to clean up, uh we salted it's always something to get.

I

Right during working sessions, at least I love doing things before we start building.

I

um uh We did with it, I think most of you have all been through this. You know where the site.

I

Is it's on uh deer street russell street green street maple wood and the train tracks.

I

Next to the sheraton, um if we go to the massing page, I think it's six, the the one thing that we.

I

Want to kind of identify that's different is we've separated all three buildings entirely.

I

Meaning that there are no, the connections aren't underground. There's no garage that.

I

Follows the whole thing um it does a couple of things that allows the average grade plane to.

I

Be a little bit different on the buildings on the side versus the ones in the center.

I

uh Which means we'll be able to play, I think a little bit more with height of these buildings.

I

Which is something that I got to pull this down a little, because I'm fogging up sorry.

B

Are these pages marked? uh Sorry? Yes, in the corner bottom right, corner, they're, small page six.

I

Is hiding it? Oh there, it is yeah we're trying to make it hard. You know we have a little.

I

The one with all the four, the six diagrams um in regards to doing that, we, we also um did a bit of a.

I

Program shift from the condo being on the finger to the condo being in the middle okay. um That was.

I

One of the other ships and then in lieu in the the center building used to face towards the.

I

Downtown and now it faces out towards the mill pond, there's a couple of reasons for that, and it.

I

Works a little bit better programmatically. It also opens up that centerpiece to the view down.

I

Across the tracks- and it allows a little bit more of a street presence, which is something that.

I

We know is part of the requirements here which we were kind of, uh not not necessarily following.

I

By having this ability to play with these masses, we're thinking that they become more of.

I

Especially these larger masses- and I know that it's been tried on uh some of the port walk.

I

Place building facades and we're going to try and craft it a little bit more like you, you're.

I

Describing and not make it just an applique, but the intent here is to create another part of the.

I

Town, that's like your market street area, the main street with the church and every one of.

I

Those buildings is right next to each other. As you know, the precedent images will look like, but.

I

In, in essence, this is the the modification. This is where we're kind of resetting back to.

I

um We had some length issues with the finger building, um which is why we had to shrink it.

I

Because you have a 225 foot limit and we were beyond that. So that's one of the reasons this.

I

Got chopped and moved over a little bit, um we had to kind of play that I take full responsibility.

I

But we do want to look at this as a series of buildings that that are part of the natural fabric.

I

Of portsmouth um again we're just as tall as some of these other buildings that you're talking about.

I

Where we're trying to make it feel like it's part of the rhythm of the town, um and I know.

I

That one of the one of the comments that we left with last time was: it's you. Can it's a very dicey.

I

Road to walk down and we're going to obviously have to come back in a month and show you what we.

I

Think we're going to be doing with these seven or eight buildings, they're really just three.

I

But we want to try and get it right and and and and have enough for the developer to to make it.

I

Worthwhile can I just say thank you for doing this, because we are seem to always be inundated with.

C

One giant building because it's one giant parcel so and and this is we're trying to.

I

Make it feel like it was contextual and uh just appreciate that that thank you.

A

There's a big thank you right on it too. At the end of the presentation, yeah yeah.

G

Right off, let's see if I can get to the next page, I'm kind of losing it on my it's too big of a.

I

Thing for my my little phone, but anyway um this is easier, so this is basically where this is where we.

I

Were going the office building still on maple wood? We may play with that alley. um What I've noticed.

I

I can't I don't know why it's not coming up, but that alley that comes up, which is portsmouth.

I

Portsmouth place or whatever it is, when I walk it and it ha part of it's a street part of it's.

I

A walkway part of it's a street now we're going to create a walkway. We have a stair at the end, which.

I

I think is something you guys had asked for how you go across the tracks is none of our business.

I

But the idea is that that might be there, and we may crank that a little bit to let that.

I

Curve of port walk, walk place, kind of continue on and be part of that same circular rhythm. I well.

I

In the next presentation, we'll show how that photograph evolves down that piece, but this is.

I

Another one of those walkway pieces: we did get some comments last week from the planning board.

I

That these aren't great public spaces and we we're sensitive to that. But in reality I walk through.

I

Town, the following day and you have plenty of small narrow side area places, maybe they're not as.

I

You know we're we're going to try and play with that, but there are.

I

Little parks here that have become a very good place and if we are going to be creating a pathway.

I

This is kind of another uh avenue in which to move through the town. That's the intent here.

I

You know we're also benefited by this huge corner, which I think the planning board was in support of.

I

To some degree that could make that whole corner feel like a really nice gathering space and.

I

Maybe, by not having it in the site and on the edge of the site might be a very helpful piece.

I

See we're going to have, unfortunately, there's requirements for parking which we can't really.

I

See on the next sheet and that's forcing us to have two layers of parking in this one.

I

But we're only putting it in one building, one that you drive in from the railroad track side and the.

I

Other one that you come across the street from the sheraton and into a parking area.

I

It's we're putting the liner in which will have potentially just amenities and if we can get some.

I

Retail up there we will, but you know the intent is to create a linear, retail or public experience.

I

Along the street edge, which I think is part of the requirements that you guys all have in your book,.

I

um Which I'm still learning about um and then you know the the finger building will become a rental.

I

A smaller rental building ground floor because it's not high enough off the street will have to.

I

Be retail of some sort, so that might be a ryan, and I were talking about, could be a good restaurant.

I

Something like that, we just you don't know yet, and then the office building is only four floors.

I

So we'd be able to treat that facade slightly differently when we get to our kind of hacked up.

I

Images remember our sketches were just to kind of give a sense of we're, not there yet very sketchy.

I

Very sketchy we wanted to keep it super loose, but we want. The intent here was to say.

I

You currently have a series in in these in the photos on page.

I

10, which is you know, you have an edge of the city which is a bunch of buildings, all the same in some.

I

Respect but when I walk that tree I know these are fairly new. Some of these um they do create a an.

I

Edge of the city- that's that's pretty impressive. um To some degree, I think we can maybe do a little.

I

Bit better on that one, this is the lower right. The deep one, I think, is a good example of some.

I

Of the places we were trying to go with those sketches, but I do apologize for the sketchy.

I

Sketchiness, we didn't want to commit too quickly until you guys responded, but we do think that you.

I

Know this little, the e is a good example of how a pathway could be. These are slightly smaller.

I

But this kind of ability now that we have some height to play with, because we we've broken the.

I

Buildings up, we might be able to have it feel like it's a bunch of buildings, as opposed to one.

I

um Although it's you know, it's always a challenge, you look at what is on.

I

Port walk place. um There are some parts of that facade that do work.

I

And other parts that are, in my opinion, not as successful.

I

Obviously, on the next page is some parks, some walkways, where we're trying to kind.

I

Of explain how we might treat it we're gonna in the next meeting put together some images.

I

That represent more clearly what we're trying to do in those areas and how those spaces are.

I

Going to be um treated uh obviously and then we're on to the sketches. But.

I

In this, in this attempt, it's different colors of brick not too far, apart from each other, a kind of.

I

A datum line, I don't want to always be the same. We want to kind of keep that rhythm, but there are.

I

Some pieces which will carry through we want it to treat so that when you look down the street.

I

Looks like six buildings, but in reality it's really just gonna be two or in the scenario I'm.

I

Not really resolved on 13, yet I think that needs a fair amount of work still that finger building is.

I

Probably the most challenging, and that's one that uh still we have uh you know other.

B

Projects have had trouble with that too, and having octagon tower sort of speak on the end of it. It.

B

Seems to the spot seems to cry: do something exciting here, but it's it's humbling when.

A

You actually have to show other people what you think of as exciting yeah this one. I don't want.

I

To focus on because it's not a great shot yet, but it is a challenging, but it you know it's got that.

I

Cool old rock that has the you know the the mile marker, so there is some historical element to it.

A

You know from uncle dave here just saying that uh I don't think you have to do all that much there.

A

It's it's exciting spot. It is very exciting to come out of that corner and and see the end of.

A

This building it could look like just has to be designed. Yeah, I mean obviously not chopped liver.

A

But something I don't think it takes disney to interpret this into something that's exciting.

A

I agree, I think it's our flood iron yeah, yeah, you're flattering and it's got to be. It's got to.

I

Be done well, our image here doesn't represent how well we think it can be, and I I want to just say.

B

I apologize did we jump ahead to this by the way sorry did I do that? Yeah you're all jumping here.

A

Sorry, I I don't mean to be a jumper, but I wanted to get through to here to just say thank you.

J

So there we are um well, I think, okay, if I may be so bald to add a footnote to this. I think the.

J

Reason we're already speaking about those issues is that we uh are pleasantly surprised at what.

J

You have proffered tonight excellent. Well, brian's doing that's pretty rare! That's like a thank you.

I

We you know this: this is the second most important site in portsmouth. That's up for development.

I

And um we think it's you know it's a critical element to create an edge between the old.

I

City and this evolving new city with items that you're dealing with every day and somehow.

I

You guys have, thankfully, pushed us through to make sure that both of these are view corridors.

I

Not just dead end view corridors which I tried to sell, but anyway um one has still got a little bit.

I

Of a road in it, but I think in the end you know these are. These are the first major moves as these.

I

Diagrams on page six identify how we get beyond you know on on the diagram, the lower diagrams.

I

And really work it through is something that I think is the craft um that you were describing.

I

On the earlier project, it's the critical element to make design architecture weave the two things.

I

Together, especially, you know with the scale of the hill and everything else. So that's where we're at.

I

I I think, um hopefully, the road behind it. What is the is that just for parking, or is that that's.

I

Fire access, road and access to the parking, okay as well. This works well for hiding the.

A

Big parking, entrances, yeah, yeah and there's quite a grade difference. Isn't there there's a about a.

I

10 to 15 depending upon how we do it we're gonna. It seems as though we'll be able to.

I

Set the average grade at 24. and the back road is around 14. So it's about 10 feet.

I

Say in the end, how we play it and that way all of the parking on the first level is buried in.

I

That building which building the center building the center building. Thank you I didn't understand.

I

That building got a little bit bigger than the other, the one you had seen earlier and it.

I

Now has a little bit more parking in it, but there's no more parking on the site um which.

I

Accommodates the needs of the sheraton, as well as the the needs of this particular project, really so.

I

It's a if we can reduce it any you know based on how you guys see it. We'd love to.

I

Right well, the biggest thing is that we were able to completely separate the two buildings that we.

I

Had previously over one parking structure which worked with zoning um but as we started to look at.

G

The the length of the building on russell, because there were some comments about how we were going.

G

To break that up, we actually did some revisions and we weren't really happy with them necessarily.

G

And we realized that we could solve a few issues at the same time, in the process of shortening.

G

That building and moving the massing, we were able to completely separate the buildings and.

G

Put a second floor of parking behind a liner space, and that will allow us to fit.

I

All of the parking under that one building and actually have three separate structures now so.

I

And that helps with construction. It helps with the fire, and it helps with, as I say from my.

I

Perspective, it's great playing, I'm interested in the the liner space. Is this a shallow.

B

Retail is this something that could actually accept small shops yeah? It's I mean that's what.

B

Definitely it's yeah, it's yeah. If I hit because so many of the developments I mean the retail.

B

Spaces all end up being four or five thousand square feet and they sit there. Vacant waiting for.

B

Somebody to come along, I mean that that's. That is a challenge with any of these spots. I mean it's.

I

It's a 200. It's like 300 linear feet at about 25 to 30 feet deep. I think.

I

You know we're we're 35 30 feet deep. We have you know it's a 30 foot deep space, but it's long.

I

um If we can manipulate it in different ways, uh we will, but you know the problem is we have this.

I

The parking how, if there's move of movement in the parking we can.

I

There we were chatting that maybe there's a little bit more room for some stackers on this level.

I

um If that happens, then maybe we could we can make it a little bit larger, but you don't want to.

I

End up with empty space, as you say no, um and you know how much amenities it sounds like the bigger.

I

Issue is like the larger footprints of some of the spaces and because these spaces aren't too deep, I.

I

Do think that they're very suitable to potentially be chopped up into smaller retail suites and maybe.

I

Easier to lease and create, maybe small, is a better idea right reagan. No, that's why I think that there.

C

There's a lack of that and and the little the little spaces downtown are the ones that are.

C

Filled- and you know, I think when you, when you put more housing here, there are more people who.

C

Need more amenities like a little coffee shop or a little newspaper store, or something like that? That.

C

Is going to get lost in a huge thing, so I think it's a great idea, shoe repair.

B

Where are the cars margo? Yes, um a couple of questions sure so make sure I understand what.

E

You've drawn here so um page, seven, the little park that's in the center building is that on top.

E

Of the parking lot that's on top of the parking for the residents, so it's like an amenity deck.

I

Okay, so it's not open to the public, no okay, the little alleyway, whoever is okay and on top of the.

E

Parking entry, that's between the funky building and the big building that is also just a roof.

I

No, that's well, it's the roof, but it's at grade level. uh So would are you do you anticipate people.

E

Are crossing over to the railroad tracks or they're using it to get into the other grade?.

I

Level at this point is above 10 feet above the park: the railroad tracks, okay, so people would walk.

E

Into that space to go into either one of the buildings they could or they it's parking. It's.

I

Parking as well we're we're in the midst of trying to resolve exactly. This is the how that gets. You.

E

This is the route. This is the driveway, that's the driver. Okay, thank you. So there's there's two.

G

Entrances side of the building to the there's one on separate.

I

Lower parking and then there's the second floor parking with the liner, that's coming in off of.

I

Russell street and that actually helped us in a number of ways, because we don't need the ramps.

I

Now so we were able to make more efficient use of the square footage, and it also makes it better.

I

From a traffic standpoint, because there's some shared parking between the sheraton and this site.

I

So when valets go across, they don't have to go all the way down deer through maplewood and.

G

Then back around the building, which is just creating extra traffic that isn't necessary.

G

That's like the two level entrances two different level entrances right now you get on fleet street.

E

And you're down here or you're on hanover and you're, exactly yeah yeah yeah. If you're part of.

I

This site, more likely you'll, be at the lower level parking if you're at the hotel or I'm not sure how.

I

They end up using it'll, be mostly valet, so it will be more controlled. This will be paved and.

I

Treated in a similar manner, as the plaza it's just that it'll have cars passing on it. We do.

I

As you can see, we have a site stair on the one coming up: sports port god. Damn it.

I

There is also you know, it is an opportunity if, if need be, we could put another one on the end.

I

Of this one too, and just give you guys the full flow through there. um That again, is something we.

I

Need to iron out, but it is possible there, because all we're creating on there is a 10 foot wall.

I

Of towards the train tracks that we could kind of do something cool with some stairs.

I

You know you have to just be mindful of the traffic, so that would be the challenge I did.

E

Want to thank you for reading the book because we made it for a reason. So I appreciate that.

E

um I like that, you noticed that I'm still reading it, some of that some of the success of of downtown.

E

Fort smith, the oldest section downtown portsmouth, is because all the buildings are so different and.

E

It's the mishmash that makes the hole much better than the parts, because the different.

I

But the same, there are some buildings honestly on congress street that are cement blocks, but.

E

They create a rhythm with the grand one next to it and the less grand one to the left of that exactly.

J

And it makes this wonderful mix. So I'm glad that that's something that you that you've noticed.

E

And with regard to the funky building, at the end, um I would just david and I were laughing.

E

Here because I pulled up very quickly, the images of the two flat iron buildings in new york and.

E

One in boston- and it's really just the fact that they're triangles that just you know make them so.

E

Wonderful and the rest is just repeating windows and some nice flares small one in portland also.

B

I mean you go to paris it's everywhere, because when he said I want a road. This way you had a.

I

Million of them, so we we actually have. I have a whole file of that type of building when we.

I

Were doing the early studies, I think we'll re in investigate that because you know in the in.

I

The we've struggled with it one thing I like is that this is now a smaller building, because.

I

It was too long before and we were trying to make it longer because of the condos and that's.

I

The more value piece but in reality, there's incredible views going the other way, which is.

I

Why the condo now makes more sense looking out over the water, the cemetery and the mill pond.

E

Thank you very much for the. I appreciate the steps and the process and how you're involving us.

E

With your development, literally development of this as it goes along, thank you yeah. We appreciate.

G

It too yeah ryan david, um just to jump in. uh Thank you, mr chairman. uh I think you did a great job, a.

A

Great service to to the project, by thinking your way through the breaking the pieces up.

A

I don't have to caution you on how making whimsy.

A

Can fall hard on its face uh and and and I'm not I'm glad it's not my job to do that.

A

um I inherit whimsical, I don't know we didn't, do it yet, but you're suggesting that you're.

I

Going to you certainly definitely I mean all of these squiggly. Damn lines mean something.

A

I think there's a great opportunity for you and if you follow in this direction, you're going to.

A

Have a a winner, the only thing that's puzzling me is why you're doing so much to make the port.

A

Walk seem like it fits in. um The port. Walk is an amazing pedestrian connection. If it's done right.

I

To connect people through the city, I I've spent a bunch of time watching people walk across the site.

I

The track tracks and go through into the city as a pedestrian piece, as these other pieces get more.

I

Developed you have a couple more big buildings that are going to happen to the north of this.

I

uh That part of the city is a very important one. This is an amazing element and you walk around any.

I

Part of the city, there are some big mistakes like the parking garage and then there are some really.

I

Successful pieces like what is it chestnut, then boardwalk place or port park places, and this is.

I

One of those elements we can't hide from because I think it's going to tie your city together in a.

I

Way that you really you you all are trying to make have happen, yeah and it's our responsibility and.

B

There's always a discussion that we had too uh because the reality is, uh you start looking up.

B

At um up by the music hall or uh actually by the abraham shaw house and going across the street.

B

To the black cemetery coming over and going past the music hall and you get into the deer.

D

Von and and you cross the street directly you're on port walk place. You walk across.

B

That so this that's why this is making a lot of sense, and I want to thank you for this.

I

Yeah we we we want to make it a better. You know, like you know, the family is obviously.

I

Much more in tune with ports than I am, but you know it's an important element.

I

You know, I think you guys said some great things just on the last panel, which was you want to be.

I

Able to have a building or a set of buildings that really you're, proud of as the city gets.

I

Older and more mature, I mean can't get much older in this city, but the new part of the city. This.

I

North part gets older and more mature, it's got to feel like it's always. We have another comment here.

I

I would just simply say following up from the previous applicant: um this is how you get a.

D

Formal modernism, with a base, a middle and a top and applaud that, I think that's a good direction.

D

I'm liking some of your imagery. um You know a little squiggly page. 10 is a little weird, but.

D

uh 11., you know good imagery and wait till next week, but next month we'll have real.

I

Pictures that you should be happy with, I think we we we owe you some real character.

I

Yeah, it just looks like a little bit too much coffee in the morning and.

I

This particular draft individual was uh and a good two in the morning so yeah it was a little early.

I

Or late, depending on how we work. But um we want to at least get some indication of of.

I

Color and presence um there's some really beautiful, uh hundred-year-old examples of.

I

Some of these buildings that have a very modern feel for 100 years ago, that might be the right.

I

Transition for this town at this point, so that's where we're kind of that's where we're kind of.

I

Moving modern buildings but 100 years old, do we have any other where to go on this, or should we.

B

I'll ask the public if anyone wants to make comments and have some public here: okay,.

B

Sounds like a movie good evening: elizabeth bradder, 159 mcdonald, street property owner.

K

Most of this, you guys can sleep through because most of it is really for them, but.

K

I'm going to go ahead and start the way the masking is presented seems very helpful to.

K

Envision how this development will fit into the corner, I needed to tell.

K

You one more thing: the compute I looked at this once and then the computers went down.

K

And I haven't looked at it since, though, if there's anything wrong, it's because I couldn't remember.

K

It all it was interesting to notice that there were no pictures of maplewood ad heaven north.

K

Coming from the maple coming down, maplewood ad from route 1., the butters will be 111 maplewood.

K

Ave, which is a one-story building and the with a large parking lot and 233 vaughn street, which.

K

Is a four-story building both will be directly across the railroad tracks from this development.

K

The presented community space sets the condos back, sets the condos back from the railroad tracks.

K

These buildings are parallel to 233 von street and potentially any new development at one third 111.

K

Maplewood the developer may want to consider the amount of reflective noise that will happen.

K

Once the tunnel is created by the two structures, creating better setbacks from the railroad tracks,.

K

And designing the buildings accordingly could make them more marketable. This could be accomplished.

K

By creating a community space along the railroad tracks, you already have a road.

K

Instead of a large one in the middle of the three lots, the community space in this area should be.

K

Tactfully fenced to deter people to access the tracks. The two buildings which will likely have.

K

The best views of the of the north mill pond is the commercial space building shown in the front.

K

And of the piscataqua river is the rental space building which is presented in the back.

K

They're not shown as waterfront condos having the commercial spaces closer to the railroad tracks.

K

On the bottom and the first floors would be more prudent than stacking. The rentals.

K

The condos and the commercial space from the ground floor upward stepping the railroad.

K

Track stepping the railroad track side could help with the noise and pro or provide various.

K

Views by doing more an accordion type stacking stepping, so it's not upward, but going back from it.

K

That we have our tracks at this point are even to the structures.

K

And that is a lot different than sitting below them or above them, when the whistle blows.

K

I live next to the railroad tracks for 35 years. I own property. That's in dover, that's probably 200.

K

Feet from the railroad tracks, where the whistle blows, I have a good idea of how loud that is.

K

It's hard to tell if the view corridors line up to port work. That's been clarified.

K

Or the hill, which I thought would be a nice touch to potentially fi, give a nice view for both sides.

K

So it looks like the second one, looking at your pictures, the first one lines up to port work. I.

K

Thought that was great, but the hill is not the other one, it's the it's the sheridan and it.

K

Would be nice if you could line it up to the hill, the end of the commercial building on the corner.

K

Of maplewood and russell could emulate the three other buildings that are one is proposed, but.

K

They're kind of rounded and they sit back from the road to allow for good sight lines at a difficult.

K

Intersection that intersection doesn't line up and it is going to have a big sidewalk out front.

K

But you might want to pay attention that the other buildings are rounded there. The developers should.

K

Consider that there is currently very little to no parking available in the north end based on.

K

The number of parking conditional use permits that have been issued in the last few years.

K

There will be a parking disaster in this part of portsmouth by the time these structures are built.

K

Even though parking is not required for commercial units, it should be considered.

K

That, without any public parking available, the likelihood of renting units may be very low.

K

There is no parking shown other than under the condo building, perhaps because considerations.

K

Should be given to adding some in the building on the corner of russell and maplewood parking is.

K

Always underestimated by cities and always given a lot of parking cups. But parking can provide a very.

K

Large income base, if it's managed properly. Thank you for your time all right. Thank you, john there's.

F

One there's one speaker, jerry zellen, who has kevin let in to speak. Certainly jerry. Can you hear us.

G

Yes, I can, can you hear me adequately, yes, go ahead, okay! Thank you. um I'll, be very brief. I um I joined.

A

This meeting in the um toward the end of the uh warp session, and that's because uh when I looked.

A

At the agenda for the meeting several days ago, a work session for this project was not listed.

G

Though I did see that the meeting packet included drawings for this, and now when I went on to the.

G

City website tonight I see that the work session is listed, so I'm I'm joining this meeting having.

G

Just come home from work um and I'm I'm not going to comment on the facade details.

G

uh Because I haven't had a chance to look at them closely enough.

A

uh But um I just want to say that I uh once again applaud the developer, but now more than I've ever.

A

Done that? Because the massing of this building is exactly what the opponents of harbor corp had.

G

Recommended and what harbor corps developers had refused to do, and so um I I think it's great that.

A

We have these two through uh true cut-throughs, uh where we have basically three separate towers and.

G

I just want to indicate in terms of massing, this project has not only my full support, but I'm sure.

A

If you ask the people who opposed harbor corps project this project, as shown in terms of massing.

G

Would have their complete support as well, and so I really want to thank the architects.

G

And their clients for their sensitivity to what is really a proper massing for this project.

B

All right, thank you uh that that was some very good quit lawyer.

B

So I don't see anyone else and uh I just like to say um you know you come back next month.

I

We'd like to have a little more attention to your squiggles. Are you going to come back next.

F

Month because we'll we need a vote to do so. uh Yes, okay, yeah, sorry, the the the reason we didn't.

I

Have the additional facade work done that we talked about last time was mainly because we.

I

Wanted to make sure we were okay with the massing changes we didn't expect those after the last.

I

Meeting and then we realized, we had a solution that would make the project better anyways.

I

So yeah I was, I was in venice in october and I thought oh that's the same thing.

I

That we could do right the same thing you guys have here just a different character.

I

Appreciate it, we we we, uh we look forward, you know you guys have the experience with this type of.

I

Historical architecture, we're looking forward to hearing your feedback and trying to make.

I

Sure that a modern interpretation is something that can be done and I think.

I

We're on the right path, but the feedback in the next meeting will be very helpful right.

B

You have the finger building finger, really I'm going to find a good one for you. Well, I thought.

A

You were calling there is something sort of from different towns have different fields in their.

A

Old buildings, uh the the module- that's repeated down the street, the the size of that lot. That's.

A

That that it's one door, two windows or whatever it is sometimes it's I mean in parts of alexandria,.

A

It's like 22 feet in philadelphia, it's like 24 feet, but there's a module and once you find that.

A

Module that you can work with that will help link the disparate pieces that you're going.

A

To try to make together, because as much as you want to make them different, it has to be drive.

I

Them together, I agree with you. Yes, that and the modulation of the height, even with the occasional.

J

Walkway from this tree to the backyard, and sometimes that big long diagonal line.

I

But if you're a resident of the condo, if anybody's interested they're, obviously be able to come up.

I

And use the upper terrace even better okay, I might get invited. Thank you very much very.

F

Very much you're watching it do we need something you need a motion in it. uh I hope that we continue.

C

This work session to next month, I'll, second, that sure all right, all those in favor all right.

B

I think a small break might be in order now all right.

J

Oh, that gives me time to change. My chair is that bad yeah it keeps going. Oh no.

G

Steve is here and michael brown, who's. The developer and builder is here.

G

So we are back following our last work session.

G

um We think that we got some really good feedback from the last session.

G

So we have gone ahead and developed these um concepts a little bit more. We're able to put.

G

It into model form for you to take a look at both renderings and, I believe, there's a movie.

G

Two movies actually attached to the submission that sort of gives us fly arounds if we want to.

G

Be able to work around the buildings so from the last session, what's changed on sheet one.

G

I apologize the reason that there's two elevations on here is: we were supposed to be showing the.

G

Cupola and non-cupola options and a layer got turned off inadvertently, but we will be able.

G

To compare those later on uh later on, in the set, we have some renderings that show both the cupola.

G

And the non-cupola options tied together: this is the non-couple. This is the non-couple option.

A

Yeah, so it's well, we made the we made the coupon much smaller, as you had asked,.

G

That's why I'm here I got the detail thing going. Yes, so on on sheet one, what we've changed.

G

Is the the front entrance we've added a second side light uh centered, those with the transom.

G

And the door surround, we've changed the front stoop to show granite material on the stoop.

G

Because of setbacks and greetings, we've actually turned the steps so that they um you come out. The.

G

Stupid and head towards the driveway rather than the street, and we're showing railings.

G

There we've changed the material in the breezeway link to match the siding material of the one-story.

G

Garage lean to we were able to take a foot out of the height of.

G

The carriage house, which I think was an issue at the last meeting.

G

We've added the chimney to the to the main house: we've put bigger windows.

G

In the attic gables we've changed the mutton grill pattern from two over two to.

G

Six over one and eight over one, depending upon the width of the of the window,.

G

On sheet two, um we actually note on here that we've we're now specifying uh wood collaborate.

G

Siding versus the hardy plank so we're not proposing the hardy plank anymore, although we.

G

Are still proposing the pvc for the trims and the window surrounds in the crawl space we've added.

G

Two windows to the right of this plan and then we've mulled together. The next two windows.

G

Under the bay we've carried the brick line towards that back addition that back l.

G

Where that had been collaborates previously down to the ground, the biggest change we.

G

Made here is that back l formerly had a gable end on it. That was fairly high.

G

And we've changed that to a to a hip roof, which we think brings the scale of that down quite nicely.

G

On sheet, 3 you'll see that hip roof versus the gable that gave us the opportunity for.

G

A few more windows back there again, we've changed the attic window to be a larger window.

G

We're showing the siding change at the breezeway it continues in through there.

G

On the garage carriage house, there was a door out to the back yard that was moved around you.

G

Don't see it in any of these elevations, it's actually tucked into that breezeway.

G

Nook because we've got a great change, they were able to get the stairs into the.

G

Garage and then that comes down and discharges directly out onto the patio there.

G

So we've replaced that door location with a window location here.

G

And on sheet 4, nothing much has changed really other than the mutton patterns.

G

In the windows from the two over twos to the uh to the eight over ones, we changed the door over the.

G

Dining room door to the to the patio it's on the far right there, the window that was.

G

Above that, we've made that a little bit smaller and added another window. That's.

G

Partially, hidden behind there that will end up in the kitchen.

G

And again, we're showing the chimney on each of these elevations.

G

Sheet five is our first peek at the cupola uh on the lower right hand, side.

G

The view looking up maplewood avenue, um you see the cupola there on the on the.

I

That has been lowered, that's been reduced by about 30 percent, so we took two feet out of the height.

G

And um uh a foot and a half out of the width.

G

Yep the trim details we've added, um they were there before, but I think they just articulate.

G

A little bit better now with the siding color, the the gable freeze uh and the freeze around.

G

The in the eve ends of the of the uh the roofs too.

B

I have that freeze board.

G

Sheet six gives you two of the identical views from north school street and prospect street.

G

Corner and that again shows you, the cupola versus non-cooper options and the couplet is reduced.

G

Sheet, seven is the view looking up north school street again.

G

Cupola and non-cooperative options, in this case, you can get a little bit more of a peek.

G

Of that window, that's back at the at the patio that was added in the kitchen also.

G

We're also showing they don't show up in the elevations computer glitch, but.

G

They are showing up in the renderings our intent to put fencing around the hvac units.

G

In a couple of locations there sheet, eight was the.

G

List of uh the uh the examples of portsmouth carriage houses that we sort.

G

Of used as inspiration for this, in some cases showing what we think are prominent cupolas.

G

Some of them are showing asymmetrical design which we're showing in the front elevation.

G

And some of them are showing that in town some of these are located quite close to the street.

G

So I know that was an issue early on. We have pushed it back, um pushed that garage back from.

G

Our first presentation, where it was right out on the street, and we had driveway coming here while.

A

This is an urban building. You do have the luxury of a bit of a lot. There where's a lot of buildings.

A

Downtown correct, really didn't right. Yeah, we are pushed back now. I think uh almost 30 feet.

A

uh You're in the middle- and I just keep seeing a thing- I think it's a glitch. I.

A

Keep seeing a thing looks like a corner board on the foundation uh downspouts I was trying to. I.

G

Was trying to represent those downspouts right wow? Thank you, my glad, I asked great thank you.

A

Thank you yeah. They didn't, they don't show uh in 3d, but I was trying to represent that they'd be.

G

That those are the downspout locations that show up better than they would on the um just on the.

A

White corner board nailed it well, you are good with the answers. Are you good with the questions.

G

So sheet9 is the beginning of some of the details. We've added some detail over the top.

G

Of the windows in the main house, which is the the upper window detail there with the.

G

um Cross head: uh I apologize that the bottom one was mislabeled as typical trim detail for.

G

Main house that should be the for the carriage house, so we got a little bit simpler when we got.

G

To the carriage house or the garage we took out some of those fine details, the beginnings of the.

G

Wall section up through there and uh corners and eve details and the front entrance detail.

B

The uh the crown molding on the front entrance detail seems um a bit shallow a bit shy.

B

Basically, the whole entablature section doesn't seem quite right.

B

uh To me with, you know not trying to replicate that there was a reason for the.

B

Relationship that they used on those- and I don't think that you've reached.

B

It with with this entry detail myself, I don't know anyone else thinks about.

B

This, the remaining sheets are the plan which hasn't changed um from what we've seen in.

G

The past and the site plan, which hasn't changed so, if you'd like to get into the.

G

Comments we're happy to hear them yeah uh so who wants to start out here? I just want to speak to.

J

Your comment as well: we go to page nine. I just find that the string of glazing above the door.

J

Is too tall for the trim above it? So, in other words, I would increase the height of that trim.

J

Above that band of glass, more pedaling, more pediment yeah, it could certainly.

A

Handle more it's a big bulky element. I I think, they're both gentlemen are correct.

B

Okay, um did you have your hand up reagan? No, I'm just scratching my head.

C

I'm gonna jump in because I jumped in first last time and I really.

E

Landed on your heart, so I think it's only fair that I jump in and say. Thank you very much for.

E

Having made these changes, because I think that the relationship between these two buildings.

E

Is much much better than it was before? um I personally don't think you need a cupola. I.

E

Think it only brings immediate problems down the road, so unless you're in love with your cupola.

E

I think it's fine, without that um I was a little. uh I was disappointed in the change in the.

E

Entryway and and the turn- um and I understand it's because of setback, so I guess there's.

E

Nothing I can say there except to say that it's a form of entryway that I would expect in a.

E

In a downtown house, that's on, say, like a union street, where it's literally right on the sidewalk.

E

And that's why they have to do those turns where.

E

It was my impression that you had some room in the front, but I guess you don't and if you don't you.

E

Don't we really don't we? I think we brought the house out to within six feet of the property line.

E

Okay, that's too bad, because I think this this turned effect um doesn't really go well with.

E

This style house, but if there's nothing you can do about it, there's nothing you can do about it.

G

We could look at sliding the house back a little bit um or move that. That's that's. It.

E

Or move the road yeah so right, my leg could start moving it back as we start to put those trees more.

G

In jeopardy, so I know those are very important, so my other comments are around some of the materials.

E

And I was having a conversation with my building expert over here about pvc, and I was wondering.

E

Why we would be using pvc on window trim in my experience? It's not the trim that usually.

E

Fails so could you tell us why you want pvc around the window trim, because if that.

E

Particularly in the front of the house, where it's so close to the street, if you're putting pvc trim.

E

There you really want the same trim all around the house and I'm just worried.

E

About the pvc trim being so close to the front of the that front street, and I don't.

E

Know that you're really going to get any great maintenance reduction for having pvc on a window.

E

Can you tell us tell me about that a little bit we do think it's going to be easier to maintain.

G

The pvc and our thinking on the pvc is, we really wanted to use it in any place.

G

That sort of started to engage flashing details and things like that, because our our fear is that.

G

If we do get a failure- and we have to start taking that apart- it's it's more than just.

G

Replacing the window trim, particularly with the head details and things like that, we'd.

G

Need to get in and start replacing flashings and those types of things, so that was of.

G

Our particular concern up around the roof, and things like that, and I think, once we got into.

G

Pvc trim, we were carrying it into the windows and we still have some of that interconnection.

G

And interlocking concerns with the windows yeah, it's all going to get painted too. Yes, it would.

B

Be feel free, that's something we insist on yeah yeah, so the the success of that um around the.

E

The door trim that is such a strong at part of the building. It's something that people focus.

E

On right away and maintenance aside, if you paint religiously, I really think that having wood all.

E

The way around this and a wooden door is really going to make this building pop. It's just going.

E

To make that minute difference that people don't know why it looks so much better, but they know it.

E

Looks better, I agree with the comments on the crown around the around that surround.

E

And I think, um could you tell me, is the material listing for the front door correct.

E

Or is the rendering correct because one's a solid door and one is a door with lights on.

E

It I think our intent is to have a solid door. Then I would definitely say: please make it wood.

E

That's it for me. Oh sorry, the screening of the mechanicals. Yes.

E

I have no problem with making it a uh not wood, but could we look at something that isn't quite.

E

So plastic as pvc like a borel or something that doesn't read shiny acrylic, because even though.

E

You will paint it I've seen these things and they really they still look fake, particularly when you.

E

Have that much of it screening several feet of it, we can take a look at it. Thank you. Okay. Yes,.

D

Well done, I support the massing and the scale and size the uh I would keep the cupola. I think that.

D

Without the cupola, it's it's lacking. um The only real detail problem I have is the rake returns.

D

They seem trumpcated and I think I'm expecting a uh maybe another step in there. That's missing.

D

From the uh from the way the gutters hung going to that and then the board just below.

D

The or the or, I should say the fascia board, it just seems like there's a step missing and.

D

I could be wrong, but uh it just seems kind of truncated.

D

Maybe that maybe the board, underneath the return is also a little too.

D

Should it be deeper, we could do a crown returning into it. I think it. I think this.

G

Would be the better return yeah? I think it just needs a stuff in it and extra stuff.

D

But other than that, I think it's, uh I think you have a good project here. Thank you. Thank you and.

B

Usually, there's a substantial bed molding in between the freeze board and the soffit under.

C

Yeah, no, I agree generally that it's moving in a much better direction. um The cupola I could.

C

Take or leave that doesn't really. I think it does much, but I don't think it's a problem. um I the one.

C

Thing that did kind of bother me is the fact that the facade windows are not and doorway are not all.

C

Symmetrical so it looks like as you're looking at it the door and the window above that.

C

Are a little bit further to the right or don't line up quite right um and.

C

You know, and again this is a modern house, it's a it's. It's using uh traditional languages and.

C

Things like that too, but it's still a modern house, but that I think just kind of irked me a little.

C

Bit I just I still want to see the the symmetry in the facade you're very symmetrical um and.

C

The the at first, the none, the asymmetry of the garage, slash carriage house.

C

um Bothered me a little bit, but it it doesn't really it's a mo. It's obviously a modern.

C

A contemporary garage that is meant to look like a carrot test, so I've been.

C

Not I'm not too put off by that, so it's really just the facade. I don't know if you can.

C

Work that to make it symmetrical, um otherwise I put it's the window.

A

And I think he made a bold move by centering the building.

A

Presenting the building centered on the doorways uh and and just left the window as as a thing.

A

Added on to it, I think that was bold and for a contemporary building. I think that makes sense.

A

I I I think he did a good job. Thank you, I'm trying to argue with you. I just.

C

Sorry, I don't sorry, are you? Are you saying that it's fine, because because he put the gable that.

A

Front-Facing gable directly over the pair of doors, he was described that carriage.

A

House as the pair of doorways you're talking about the carriage house, I was thinking I was.

C

Under that, yes, I was talking about the facade, the main entrance. I I'm sorry no. I was very confused.

G

I agree with you. Yes, I think that the carriage house is fine. um Yes, thank you. Can I throw out.

I

A suggestion, without my architect not being happy with me, and this can be just a so the only thing.

F

I see and I'm not I don't have the background now. Everybody has on this board, um but over.

F

The main entry, because of the just the details and stuff I had asked if a hip roof over, that.

F

Would look a little better, and hopefully that was just a suggestion to kind of bring everything.

I

Maybe you know and then just to maybe yeah, then we start getting into the replication and some people.

B

uh Hip roof over the front door and such, but um it definitely needs to have heavier.

B

Trim over the door, yeah yeah. Well, that's sometimes.

F

When I heard heavy I was like thinking, maybe that's a suggestion might might uh bring that.

F

Heaviness back to the front of the house, maybe you could get your architect to draw that too.

B

I think we're getting close, uh I think maybe what reagan was saying um if you look at.

B

Where was it where, where are we here, not that one? Well, even if you went to page one.

B

So you've got the the window centered over the door, which is correct and then in the center.

B

You've got the attic window, seemingly one of them looks a little off, but you know they're all. On top.

B

Of each other, so the the windows on the left-hand side on the first and second floor. If they were.

B

Just slid over a little bit does that would that seem to straighten out the problem? You have.

B

Reagan sure either either to the left even either move the windows on the right, the door.

C

And the window into the center- or you know yeah just make them cement and make it symmetrical.

B

So it's those two windows on on the left hand side. I think there.

C

To me it's the ones on the it's the door and the window on the right. That's too far apart. I think.

E

The problem, too, is that it it really creates a the right-hand side of the door and the right-hand.

E

Edge of the house are squished, they look like there's two inches between the side, light and and.

G

That corner board and like it's crammed in there and then you've got all this extra space.

E

To the left of that door, where, if it were moved over six inches to the left, it may still not be.

E

Exactly symmetrical, but it wouldn't be squashed yeah, it's six and one half dozen of the other.

B

Any other comments, I love the changes. uh I love the door. I think it gives it some snap.

G

Where I was a cupola man, I think the uh that just putting that chimney there.

G

Thank you makes it not necessary.

G

Emptying the door to the right or to the driveway also makes a little sense.

G

On where you're gonna park the car, so that doesn't bother me too much rather.

G

Than coming straight out, because then you're going to have to go back out and around again.

G

But centering somehow the main house, either by moving two windows or windows to the left or the.

G

Door and window a little bit to the left, I think we'll bring that symmetry that you're looking for.

G

Yeah one of the other yeah um heinz, have you said anything about this house.

J

No I was going to, but this is fine. I think I don't have any real.

J

Profound comments to make in addition to what already has been said, so is there a video that.

C

You said: there's like a flyer, are you able to load that neck? It's probably not going to work.

F

Here with the situation at city hall, all right, fine, yeah yeah- don't worry about it. I would just.

B

Like to uh echo everyone else's comments and say that, as far as the cupola or the no cupola.

B

Neither one makes any difference to me so and I think some other people have said that so it's.

B

Really, whether you want a cooper or not it's up to you um we're arm wrestling over that now.

B

I know we've gone through so much work. um Last time I built a carriage house on a house. I.

A

I put a lantern on it because I couldn't stop myself yeah, but there were people that argued.

A

That it wasn't worth the maintenance or the cost, that's that's. You know. What I find is that when.

B

A northeaster hits they leak yeah. I don't care if you've got louvers, you know the the water comes up.

B

And uh because I've put a couple of these, I matter of fact, I was really into cupola for a while.

B

And I ate one of them. I ended up, have sticking a pan up there good spot.

A

I'd like to say that I prefer a modern building built on a site. That's caught age.

A

Federal and greek revival and a whole collection of buildings around it. This is a it's going to.

A

Be a real treat, I think, you've done a heck of a job. Thank you. So are you ready to come back for a.

B

Public hearing, I believe we are, I think you are also your help so.

B

Just get a hold of nick and get scheduled anyone in the public. uh Anyone in the public want to.

B

Make comments about this, the vast public, the vast public? There's nobody online either nobody online.

B

With that I'll close this work session very good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

B

You're well well, it'll be a nice house. Oh yeah you'll be looking at it. Thank you. Yeah.

B

Hey and we've got the old pleasant street coming up.

J

I need to take my nets.

B

Okay, work session, requested by mill pond view. That's what threw me off llc.

B

Owner for property located at 179 pleasant street, wherein permission is requested to allow.

B

Changes to a previously approved design, changes to the sun room and the roof design, as per plans on.

B

File in the planning department said properties shown on assessor map. 108 is lot 15 and lies.

B

Within the mixed research office and historic districts here to present this work session,.

H

Good evening carla goodnight from cj architects, I also have jake wieder from cj architects and.

H

David calkins owner's representative um this, I let me just start with our.

H

uh Brief explanation here, uh first of all,.

H

I'm gonna dive into 1.0 and 1.1 and then we'll just have a conversation a little bit about.

H

You know where we're at with this project, so 1.0 is the location.

H

Next to the langdon house, which also gives you a pretty good location.

H

H

uh Let's see where I'm at here, so the current htc approval that we're operating under.

H

Was granted to the prior owner and I'm not sure how many common board members we have.

H

Okay, excellent, you know, I think everybody puts you down. Oh good yeah, all right.

K

Pretty familiar all right great wasn't too long ago, okay, um and uh so it was purchased in 2021.

H

And the new owners are in the early stages of researching and evaluating the historic structure.

H

We're working with planning and gorham structural engineering and also currently interviewing.

H

Historic preservation experts to join our team, as you know, sorry, every time yes, but I'm here.

H

And right now, at this time the team is primarily focusing all of our efforts on the historic.

H

Mansion house, we, the owners, are really anxious to live there. They want to move in, they want to.

H

Be in portsmouth and so the pre and the previously approved modifications to the captain's house.

H

Are you know pretty much what they want to do anyway, with the exception of.

H

The round room that was built in the 80s is wasn't constructed well or properly, and so.

H

That we'd like to redo that and we'd like to put a little bit of space off of the.

H

Off of the back half and then we would get into the.

H

Other aspects as a phase two process so.

H

I would say.

H

There's a couple of things I wanted to clarify: we prepared this timeline, which was really help.

H

Everyone understand exactly when some of these things occurred on the house.

H

This was sort of the easy part of the timeline to construct, because it's.

H

Moving forward, but moving backwards in time, it was a little bit more difficult.

H

To sort of parse out when all of these things took place, so um I think what I'd like to do is.

H

I think I'm just sort of going back and forth because some of this we've talked about with.

H

Some of you and some of this weekend, I know why, don't you just get started all right. I will.

H

I will all right so um on 1.1 we have the uh the history and on.

H

2.0 we're just looking at the elevations of the house itself. We have some shutters on here. Some.

H

Are falling off we're trying to work on dating those shutters and come up with a plan for that.

H

There's a full intent to restore windows and just strip and paint the siding. Do any repair.

H

Work that needs to happen retain all the details, so the main house is going to just be restored and.

H

Dave will talk a little bit more about that. If you look at a photograph in.

H

The partial north elevation photograph number four: you can see the uh the round porch room.

H

Which is actually constructed on top of what I believe was the garden wall, so we would like to.

H

Just reconstruct that, with a foundation, a real foundation and insulation and modern living.

H

Qualities so let's see moving on to 3.0 I'd like to just make a couple of corrections on.

H

The previous approval there were some items on the previous approval that just.

H

Weren't noted on the plans that actually exist on the building. So in doing our inventory and.

H

Research and documentation, we came, we had located these things, so we just wanted to.

H

Add that corrective sheet 3.0 uh 3.1, what is it what's the correction? Oh, it's in red.

H

And blue right and red and blue. So all the blues rectangles on here.

H

um Have been, I mean, f, is the missing chimney. D is c and d or skylights uh a and b are existing.

H

Dormers and e is another skylight that were not depicted originally, so those are all existing yeah.

H

Right all right: okay, they're existing, but um there was just if we're amending an existing approval.

H

We just want to correct the existing approval to reflect. What's there before you start. Can I just.

E

um Sure, yes, skylight e, is that hidden behind the widow's walk. Okay, thank you.

H

Yes, that is the access to the widow's walk back. Certainly you got to get up there exactly get.

H

Up there, if you're a widow and you want to walk so uh three people for the whalers to come home.

B

They used to come into the south mill pond and drag the carcasses and cut them off.

B

I'm sorry yeah historic accuracy, keep going. um 3.1 is the documentation.

H

Of the bay window area that we would like to remove.

H

And, as you can see there that it's, you know, certainly not any anything historic.

H

Neither or keep hitting this microphone and the back door as well is modern.

H

Some further detail on some of the porch construction, which is failing.

H

And also not historic, um so we have started some selective demolition and we have a report here.

H

From our structural engineer and uh and he has begun, his assessment of the preliminary findings.

H

Of some of these structural elements on the first floors and what he's found he he hasn't been able.

H

To do all of it yet, but he's in what he's found so far, there's a significant amount of framing issues.

H

That are affecting uh the building and there's quite a bit of work that needs to be done. There.

H

And uh I guess I'm gonna actually ask you to speak a little bit to that dave and.

H

You know- and I don't know if you all have anything to add to that, having been there.

H

The the members who were able to come and have a look at it prior to the meeting.

H

Because um I don't know if everybody got a chance, but I didn't get a chance to go into the main.

E

Building only the outbuildings that were being redone, I don't know, okay, it was a.

E

Separate tour of the main building, so whatever it was two nights ago.

G

There were just a couple of us who went because it wasn't a meeting, but they were. We were saying that.

E

Okay, so any anything you're referring to on the inside of the main building. I have no reference.

E

Pointed okay: yes, I'm a little trying to figure out what you all know from before.

H

What we're going to know now, I think, we're going to know something.

B

When he starts talking, okay, there you go. Do you mind if I take this back? It's really amazing.

F

um An electrician would have a heyday police. There are wires hanging all over the place.

F

Not just an electrician either, probably not so uh david calkins, 175, woodlawn circle, portsmouth.

F

I represent the owners of the building to give you some quick context.

F

I manage all of their properties. I act as their construction manager. I work exclusively for them.

F

So I just sort of oversee all of their real estate and all of their construction projects.

F

What we've tried to do here is recreate the picture, as carla said as to.

F

From when this was built under captain thomas thompson to date, what has happened and understand.

F

There's been a shift in styles originally as georgian, and then it has.

F

Sort of undergone some changes under most likely mark wentworth, which we've documented.

F

Here for you so in knowing that the property has undergone some stylistic changes over the years.

F

We're sensitive to that on the outside the windows. As carla said, we are- and I guess we'll be back.

F

Up we're still very much fact-finding we're diving into this to figure out how deep is.

F

The rabbit's hole, sort of speak and so the windows we intend to preserve we're talking with a couple.

F

Of different companies action solder, people like this- that that's all they deal with the exterior.

F

Looks beautiful but once you're up close, it has been neglected. It needs a lot of work.

F

As we've consulted with people from strawberry bank elizabeth ferris, john schnitzeler people.

F

From new england preservation, melissa, kershaw doug, even ian blackmore,.

F

And we're still seeking out more people is what I'm telling people is that this is a.

F

Preservation, restoration, renovation effort- we still don't know where I could truthfully.

F

Say hey: this is a preservation piece. This is a restoration. This is a renovation so on the outside.

F

There's a lot of preservation work, a lot of care. We are only looking at the main house as.

F

Carla has stated at this time because there's a significant amount of work just within that house.

F

Moving to the inside, we invited uh members of the board to come through a to help us with our.

F

Research and be to just get your opinion on your vast experience. What you've seen over the.

F

Years so we can start to better define where these lines will be drawn. In our perspective,.

F

You know what is a preservation effort and a restoration effort, if that makes sense.

F

So for right now and I'll shift this back over to carla.

F

We're looking to operate under a lot of the approvals or most of the approvals for the main.

F

House that the wong's secured uh with the changes as she's identified with the back kitchen bump out.

F

I believe that's it for the the back kitchen and then just the reconstruction of the of the porch.

H

Element, the 1980s sunroom right and one of the things that we're that we're starting to explore.

H

Is we've done a little bit of um demolition, but not enough for a full structural evaluation.

H

The demolition that's been done so far has incu has uncovered that um the structural engineer.

H

Is basically recommending that we remove and replace the first floor system, that's over.

H

The basement, because it's it's just rotted and it's so gone and it's so close to the ground.

H

On two sides or two and a half sides that he really recommends that you know we excavate around.

H

It and the good news is, he thinks the foundation is in pretty good shape there. He has some.

H

Preliminary thoughts on the um on the annex as well, but he's pretty sure, that's in similar shape.

H

uh What what did we say? There was like a foot of space between between the and they're on the.

H

The framing's on the flat so between the framing and the dirt is maybe a foot of space and so he's.

H

He's waiting for us to pull up a few floorboards and give him some access, but he's pretty hunched.

B

I, for one would say I was very surprised to see that on a a major structure like the nx, you know.

B

Built by somebody with the wherewithal to even purchase this house and to go to that level of.

B

Cheapness, I don't know how to say it in the proper way, but I mean.

B

Why didn't they excavate and have a seller there? I don't know- or even you know, a decent.

B

Crawl space, but something like this I mean the only thing that's good for is raccoons.

B

They're, probably in there just to be uh clear for the members who weren't uh at the walk through.

F

The annex is obviously the back addition to the main house. We haven't done any demo in the main.

F

House and the annex I would say about half of it- is on a crawl space, and a foot is probably.

F

A generous term, it's not it's, not accessible, and the back half is on a crawl space that might be.

F

30 inches tall or so so yeah next off, where do you go? Do you go over to the garages or.

G

Or just the kitchen and uh now, if you're, if you're, looking again at 3-0, if we were in the main house.

G

Basement there's a cinder block out that you can look through, and that is the.

F

Really, the only way to access about the first half of that annex in the basement.

F

Yeah, so a 3.0 this. This is the annex right, okay structure. Here it's it's a two and a half story.

B

Major structure- yeah, yeah, okay, I wasn't sure how much it worked yeah. So what are we getting? Two.

H

Kind of everything the members that were able to come um were you know very tolerant of our entire.

H

Interior speech here, because you have to really understand the condition that it's.

H

In to understand, you know what we think we need to do uh with these preliminary structural findings.

H

The annex will doesn't have the foundation stability of the mansion. We think he still needs.

H

To dig in and get a little bit more information there and gorham structural engineering also.

H

Said that you know, we'd probably have to excavate put up on cribbing reframe the first floor. So now.

H

We've got the building on up suspended. He also said that when the annex was added, it was added.

H

Lower than the other roof- and it was the the roof line- bisects the stair, the grand stair window.

H

Right in the center of the top sash and as the two valleys come together, some main timber frames were.

H

Cut yeah and um now there is a significant sagging and if you look on you can see the.

H

Window on three three: I would this: the annex is like 30 inches below the other roof line and is.

H

Just bisecting that historic window, you can see it in the attic in the upper left photo.

H

um And the owners really are the owners are very concerned about that. They, you know they'd, like.

H

To restore that window yeah when you're up in the attic you can actually see and.

A

Wanting to lift the roof or the building itself up so that the cornice line of.

A

That building the annex, you're calling it the hitch. Now, if you were to raise it up, so that it.

A

Roof intersected with the roof of the main block yeah. We would free up the top two lights of glass.

A

In that hall window so that they would have a natural view of outside, but yes, it will directly.

A

Impinge hard on that center of luther dog house dormer on the on the center of the roof, uh because.

A

As you raise that angular form up, it will cut right into it, even if it doesn't require you're.

A

Removing it, it will make a valley condition that will be untenable. Well, that's the valley that.

H

We need to reconstruct the valley right now, that's untenable! Well, it's pretty bad. I mean.

A

If you look at the roof of the underside, far away from the side of the so um yeah okay anyway,.

A

It's it's collapsing in that area right now. um It's it's in very, very bad condition. I don't.

H

Know if it's salvageable, um as is it's bent and broken, and uh it was all torn apart in the 80s.

C

Yeah, no, it's it's definitely in bad shape. It's.

C

It's not going to last. um The only issue from a preservation perspective is that.

C

This annex l, whole big edition was built. We think in, like the 1860s.

C

So I mean it itself is a very historic element of this house and to.

C

Raise it up or move it or something is, is essentially.

C

Destroying that part of its history and this historical.

C

I I'm not, I I'm not saying that it's um not necessarily warranted because of the structure.

C

But I'm just bringing that up as a discussion piece, because that is I mean it's.

C

If it were a standalone house, that's 1860s, it's you know it. It's no! In my opinion, it's no less.

C

Valuable as an addition to an older house than you know by itself, so I I think that it in itself has.

C

A lot of historic value and it needs to be a big permanent right. And if I, if I may.

F

Yeah, we certainly recognize the historic value of not only the annex, but the house and.

F

All of these things working together as a system, I think, in our mind, we're thinking the foundation.

F

Was never done adequately, the annex was put on and it cut off the ceremonial stair window. It's.

F

Almost like either the finances weren't in place or the thought process that wasn't in place and.

F

Do we now stand the chance to to correct that? I guess with with obviously the respect of the.

F

Original intent of the house, you would, if so, if you put it up on, you, pin the thing up, pull it.

A

Up, lift it off its foundation, saw it off from the main building, which is probably not hard attached.

A

To anyway um and lift it up in the air scrabble around build your new foundation drop the thing.

A

Slightly back down onto that thing, your first floor won't line up with your current first floor.

A

So that means you have to tear the first floor that exists. It has to go out and your second floor.

A

Which exists and lines up with the it doesn't does not line.

F

Up it doesn't line up with the second floor, you have to walk downstairs to it.

C

Do you now there were a couple awkward stairs. They were like two steps.

B

That would give you a chance to correct that. I mean I'm looking at it.

B

As a pile of mistakes, you know and when I was a contractor, I would bump into things and.

B

You know and you'd go aha, you know this is what they did and maybe you know why they did it.

B

I have no idea why they did this, but I can say that respective of what um reagan is saying.

B

About the the historic aspect of the annex, I I to you need to correct these mistakes.

H

Well, I appreciate that and I also appreciate what reagan is saying, because if we could preserve.

H

That dormer, if there was anything left of it, we're going to have to rebuild it anyway. The whole thing.

H

Has to be rebuilt, the framing is so bad and that whole first floor also needs to be rebuilt.

H

Because it's rotten so the things that we are going to be, uh you know that would be.

H

Most affected by this move up are the window would be free. The valley which is.

H

It's not repairable, the peak going to rise would need to be rebuilt. No, no, no and the.

H

First floor would need to be rebuilt, which it does anyway, and the valley needs to be done anyway.

A

The floor framing on the first floor of the l excuse me uh is the piece that I could.

A

See when I peered through the little hole they didn't give us a very big hole to peer through.

C

And the floor joists that I said two floor, joists that I could see where two by fours.

A

And they were laid flat, so it isn't much now there's a lot. There's really not much there and.

A

And there's no question: uh the chairman is correct: uh given the option of practical option, there's.

A

Lots of these things that you would take care of that you would just want to take care of sort.

A

Of like well, we may as well take your appendix out we're down there anyway over there. So this.

B

Is an extreme example, but it'd be like fixing the crack in the liberty bell? Do you do that.

D

I mean that's, it's not the liberty bell. Well, it's not the liberty belt. That's the only reason. It's.

A

A kitchenette yeah, so I guess it does have this right because I didn't see the inside. Yes could.

E

David, could you please tell me where's this window, we're talking about? Oh, it's, it's a cutie.

A

See this wood? No! It's at the top of the stairs in the upstairs hall. The back of the original.

A

Building, can you see it from out here? You can't see it from there, but you can see it. Can you.

A

Imagine this right here: this is that spot! Oh, I did it, I'm sorry, they say: don't touch the screen.

A

Okay, this is that spot right. There we're looking underneath this roof into that area. Right here,.

A

This is that roof. This is, it's got a very deep overhang, two and a half feet. So in this.

E

Original house back wall of this house, this is the back wall of the house right here. Yeah.

A

That is this right here somewhere right about here. There was a right just exactly like this.

A

Window just exactly like that window 3.3, you can see that it's a little underneath there.

A

It looks like that from the inside see that's the roof of the overhang it goes. This goes all.

G

The way- yes, yes- and they built this thing right over it- and the connection between this soffit.

A

And the house is stuck insulation and rags, and so what you're talking about in terms of raising it.

A

Is saying, take this line and bring it up to here, and actually they want to start down here.

A

Well, of course, yeah yeah. I get that take the whole thing up, but the problem is now you've.

E

Got this coming all the way up here, I don't think it's going to get anywhere near the peak.

A

Of the roof, though, it's about 30 inches, okay. Well, I'm pretty certain. It will not 30 inches.

A

uh To the peak you're lifting it up and the in the inside, the inside of this doesn't exist. The.

E

Inside of the annex in terms of its architectural value inside doesn't exist, it does not ri, it does.

E

Not come anywhere close to the main house. This is like the poor, the poor edition, where you put.

E

The servants kind of thing there's a story about this okay, so it was all done in a an apartment, was.

C

Added in it in the 70s, so there really was not so. Can I ask a really naive question very good.

E

Why, wouldn't you just take ask for permission to take this entire thing off.

E

And just do what you want in the back. I understand what reagan's going to say about this building.

E

But if it does, if it doesn't have, I don't think you would if it has historic value, but.

E

It doesn't have architectural value in the quality of what it was built.

E

I'm just wondering how many, how much gyration and how much pain and agony do you want to go through.

K

To preserve the physical structure of this, as opposed to saying well, we could do this this this.

E

And this, and you know if we could throw away those considerations, what would you do with a relatively.

E

Clean slate, I'm just throwing out this, I'm just throwing that! Well, I think yeah you mentioned.

B

It uh reagan yeah yeah. Well I mean I, the interior, shot the exterior. I still think, as you walk around.

C

It I mean it's got this beautiful curve. If, if you take the weird sunroom thing away, I mean the wall.

C

Event is beautifully curved, the other side facing the driveway. I mean, I think, there's still plenty.

C

Of historic and structural integrity integrity to the exterior, which is what our purview is.

C

True right and so you're looking at the outside of this, we did have some windows and so.

G

My question is so I want to just try and clarify. So are we talking about literally lifting the.

C

Exterior the shell of this up and propping it up more to make everything else line up we're talking.

H

About um you know, we wouldn't do this if we didn't already have to detach three quarters.

H

Of it, so we take the last, go the last quarter and then come up 30 inches, and that would we wouldn't.

H

Change any of the facade all the windows, all everything stays the way it is, and that just.

H

Happens to work, I don't know why I mean it just happens to work. Every the floor would come up.

H

The ceiling you know the it would come up, so not just the interior but the whole. The whole exterior.

H

Is going to thing would come off and come up 30 inches perfect. The first floor would be built.

H

Down 30 inches on top, so it would be flush with the original, but the second can stay where it is.

D

Because it's already- and the third can stay where it is because you're already stepping down into.

C

It on every level of the house so you're taking the bridging of the gap again you're, going to.

C

Take the slate roof off the whole roof structure that hasn't come off. You could repair yeah, so.

B

I've got another stupid question since we have a lot of these. It appears when I look at 2.0 and I.

B

Look at picture number three, which is the south elevation, that the foundations appear to line up.

B

um How could that be? How why am I seeing? Why is this wrong? The first floor is level with the main.

H

House, yes, I thought you'd already said that it wasn't level and that this will correct that.

B

Problem no on the second and third floor. Second floor is not level with the second floor of the.

D

House right, the ceiling is much lower on the first floor, yeah yeah ceilings in the main house.

F

I believe are 10 feet and I think they're eighteen. So how is this going to work out with this? How is.

B

The first floor going to be framed uh on top of a foundation which is 30 inches higher than this.

B

You're going to walk up into this they're going to suspend the floor, the new first floor is going to.

A

Get suspended on the foundation that they built the first floor will get 30 inches taller. So.

F

So the way we would below the windows below at the moment, I'm asking you know.

A

So the windows are going to move up way too far: no they're low, they're low okay, because.

G

The other one goes through their doors, I'll be illustrated, yeah, the other ones, the doors.

H

All much lower than the front door so but.

C

That's the problem with like just jacking up an entire structure so that these doors that.

C

Go onto the driveway, will you just have exterior steps leading up to oh yeah they're, going to have.

H

The porches that are there's a porch already suggested on the one that would one on the left.

G

Right, you have a more of a stair. That sound is that, where you get the extra sidewall to put a.

A

Roof on top of that uh patio, three season room; no, no! Okay! It's a separate from there because we're.

H

Mostly, the restriction is up against the main house. So if you take this building that much apart.

G

uh I I don't know this, I don't know uh boy stuff, I don't know demonstrated in public here.

A

This won't pass a blower door test so to do that, you're going to have to pull the exterior.

A

Skin off this thing and resheath it completely because it's skip board sheaved or something.

A

The equivalent of that there- and maybe I shouldn't be saying this on public recorder.

F

But there's there is a stipulation in the building code that given your uh existing condition, you can.

F

Only take it so far, iebc yeah the good, better best scenario, so we're taking this thing to the best of.

F

Its ability, with a stud that's only two or three inches deep we're never going to achieve an r21.

H

There's also a historic exemption, so there there's there has to be an understanding there. That.

F

Yeah a blower door test, and uh so I'm just wondering what what's the point of.

A

The only reason that I can think of to save this thing, having been through it in terms of.

A

Architecture is some of the cloud boards on the outside and the window frames and casings.

A

Which you can salvage, um you might be able to salvage some of the roofing material, but.

A

All of the roofing material it has to do with the hips against the main house, roof just shot. Now the.

A

Framing, that's, there doesn't pass muster now. So I wonder the only reason to quote make you people.

A

Raise this structure rather than just build a new one, is trying to keep you in the sandbox.

F

I think which and going back to I'm sorry margo your.

F

Initial question: if we could do what we want is we would build that with the soffit levels. Continuing.

F

All the nice dental molding, the cornice everything continuing just like the langdon house, exactly.

A

ah This is mckim medium white envy, yeah yeah. Well, that's different, though this isn't.

B

Mead and white, I mean if you could salvage the windows and window sills.

B

And set them aside and place them back in a newly framed structure.

A

You can't get the main house cornice, though it's got to stay as a dependency, cornice. Okay, it's.

B

Interesting, I I could be closer because no it's going to that going. The langdon house route is.

A

Wrong, it's wrong, historically, historically, what they did, but they didn't have to come before us.

H

So subordinate could mean just a simpler, just one step down good better best. I believe there is okay.

D

um I guess I think I've been inside. That's the thing: it's it's a mess, the cut to the chase.

D

What are you asking.

H

Well, I think what I I can clarify that I think that you know part of the reason we didn't come.

H

And just say you know it really, it really is in terrible condition. It would be really great to.

H

Salvage anything you all, we all think is salvageable or you all think should be salvaged.

H

And just build this new and correctly- and you know you don't want to say, tear it down, we don't want.

H

To say that, because we don't we they want to, we want this owner wants to move this project.

H

Forward, okay, we wanted the right thing, we want to do it right and we want to you know. You know.

H

Happy to do the right thing, but you know they they really want to get started. Okay, I mean surgically.

D

I think you could cut a notch at that. Cornice carry the old. The main house, corn is into the.

D

The l and then rake down and you'd have free up that window. That's a surgical solution to freeing.

D

Up the window, but it's not about just freeing up the window, because you have all the problems below.

D

So you want to lift the house, that's the ask the ns the either lift or rebuild at a higher position.

H

With all with all the anything salvaged that needs to be salvaged, okay um and we're really we'd go.

H

You know obviously, rebuilding is is easier, um but we understand where we are and why we are here.

D

So it's a real hard ask and it's it's it's hard for us to wrap our heads around it.

B

I mean there are any numbers of other ways I can think of. uh You know after you rebuild.

B

The first floor and make the framing all two by six or whatever and I've actually ripped.

B

Pieces and added them to every stud and I've done it a number of times.

B

To try and get a plum wall to put a kitchen in you have to do that. So that does happen. You know, but.

B

After you've got the second floor rebuilt I mean you could add stud.

B

Pieces, you could just add these little crippled. On top of the whole thing.

B

Like this build [, __, ] walls put them all around and and just lift the second floor up and the roof.

H

Yes could do that you could do that. Also, that's.

B

Very true yeah: this is a carpenter's way of doing that on the cheap, but it would work.

E

From my perspective, I think that you probably have a lot more research to do to decide.

E

From an architectural engineering and construction point of view, what your various options are.

E

What those options cost and and where the owner, what direction the owner thinks they want to go.

D

Yeah I I can see a bunch of different solutions. I can see the raising and retrofitting and the.

E

Stuff and- and I would support that if it helps to.

E

Preserve the integrity of the main building it achieves what the owners want to achieve. I can.

E

Go that way, if that just is like trying to put a band-aid on a really bad wound, I would be in favor.

E

Of taking this down preserving the moldings that any anything that you can possibly get off of that.

E

Building but if you're going to redo that it's got to be the materials and the quality that that.

E

Should have been done in this building in the first place, I think no argument. No, you know.

E

Yeah, so I could support a rebuilding if you were rebuilding very traditionally yeah, no.

G

Yeah, absolutely you know slotted floors.

B

No half-inch usb osb yeah. Well, there isn't any more. Thank goodness.

E

I think I think you you need to know a lot more about what you're facing before you can really.

E

Ask well that's and that's why we're I might, from my point of view, there's some flexibility.

E

With conditions, okay, so I'm torn with saving and I'm sort of in agreement with reagan. On this, too.

B

I don't know, I think that you know demargo had a good idea, though.

B

You guys have really got to come back and say this is what we want done. This is what the owners want.

B

This is what you think is the best solution, right yeah that makes the most sense. Yep come back to us.

B

And I hope everybody realizes that you know. One thing that she hasn't talked about is that the.

B

Slate root would be removed, yes, because there are framing problems that are really bad up there. That.

B

Need to be corrected, yes, this slight the slate and then all of the slight roofing may be removed.

A

When you do that, you know you're going to have to lift the dormers.

A

Because the roof, doesn't it won't intersect them correctly, once you do unless you're adding.

A

um This is all costing you skinny skinny skinny in the royalty, yeah, okay, um but.

A

It's just it's a it. Is it's a it's a damn mess. It's a damn mess. I I don't I'm pretty.

A

Sure I wouldn't do if it was mine, but I I I that doesn't mean I'd. Ask somebody else to do that.

E

It is a damn mess and- and I encourage those of you who didn't get to go through- I'm sure, they'll.

A

Walk you through any time you wanted to be happy too it would, it would make it it would.

E

Make it easier to understand yeah, that's true. We had. We had asked for that. That.

H

You know for you all to come and see it. We didn't have time enough to there's some. Yes, some sort of.

H

Protocol that I'm unaware of that we needed to follow to advertise if we're all going.

C

To be there at the same time, that's all it is huh that's all it is. That's it. Okay, notice, notice, okay,.

D

And availability- I'm I'm sitting over here, though you could sit over there she's still. There.

F

We could have done it christmas eve, so we can provide notice and then everybody can come again.

H

Once we provide notice, um because we know that the interior is technically not the purview, but the.

H

Interior is informing so much of this exterior that it's you can't. You can't understand it.

H

Otherwise, yeah, so then don't forget that you, of course, this isn't really in our purple.

B

Purview but the whole first floor, the original framing of this building on the first floor.

B

Most of the beams that we saw down in the basement are gone. Oh nice. You know they are.

B

Manually, you can just rip chunks out of them.

A

The thing that makes this most difficult think is that all we're talking about this l.

A

I assume the first l is mostly gone, and this elvis there now.

A

Actually dates to most of the extant work in the main block of the house. It's the.

A

18 mid 19th century rehab of this building by mr wentworth was so extensive that that much of the.

A

Interior and exterior that some of the exterior much of the interior, of the main block of the.

A

House was redone at the same time that this l was put on. You can tell, by the framing the elf.

B

Original was there an original fireplace mantle in that house? I didn't see one. I didn't see one.

B

No, no, no, it's all victorian marble yeah, you know it's. It's high quality.

C

Yes, interior window trim all the first floor. Windows on the front of the house got crocketts.

A

On their exterior trim, I mean play they really. They the front entryway portico and beams columns.

A

And the rest of that all dates to this thing that we're being casual about tearing down the sashes.

A

That are in this l currently are exact matches of the sashes that are in the rest of the house. You.

A

Didn't see any other kind of sash anywhere in the house other than that yeah, which were all.

A

Early replacements, um but it's a mess. It's a mess. You avail yourself of the opportunity.

A

To go and look at it, it's a mess and if you put your dollars and cents hat on it, it's a big ask.

B

Yeah so we've, I think you know, we've just informed everybody as you have yeah, so we.

B

All understand, I think, the conditions that you're looking at with your annex.

B

With the roof and with the slates, yes, yes, thank you for I'm not sure if any, if any.

B

Slates are saved reused or no is it worth it purchase new slates. That's all going to be a.

F

Continual piece of defining at this point, if and when you're so thin, that you know.

H

Yeah until I haven't even I have not had a chance to really look at those, but yes.

H

He was really anxious to crawl into that eight-inch space yeah. um So so the only other.

H

Feedback, I ask of you, is if there was any it doesn't sound like anybody is objecting to.

H

The to the shed roof off the first floor on the back there, oh no! No! I don't think there's.

B

Anybody has objections, no one's objecting to that and um just the uh the if you look at 4.1.

H

Where we're simplifying the form of that of the round piece, I believe that.

A

Everyone on the commission should have avail themselves of the opportunity to go see that.

A

Thing, I don't think they can appreciate, I'm not saying you've done a disservice, but I don't.

A

Think you can appreciate the magnitude of what she's talking about looking at these images. Okay,.

H

All right, that's what we're scared of well, I agree with you, which is why we initiated this to try to.

H

Get as many of because we were allowed out there, so I appreciate you all doing that, so you could.

H

You got to remember we're every one of us, I'm certain walking around until yesterday. Thinking.

A

That this was one of the magnificent jewels in the community yeah. Even today, when I look yeah.

A

And and it it may be, but it's it it's just looking at the underbelly of it is a little bit different.

H

It's sobering. I appreciate that there's an owner who is willing to actually really do.

F

The right thing yeah, but it's not me. I work for herself, oh uh yeah, to that press on the word, but.

F

Yeah and thank you for saying to that point I know, there's a there's, probably an underlying.

F

Amount of angst to whether or not someone can step into these shoes and fulfill this, the client.

F

Has not only the interest the his the historical interest hobby background? He has the resources.

F

And he's committed they are committed to to going through this. It's a it's a labor of love, I'm sure.

F

You saw the sale price. This is a financially irresponsible thing from a profit perspective.

A

So that is dispelled, um so we're we understand. We've been through this process, not enforcement.

F

But in other places it's just you know and I'm the one that brought that up. I'm thinking.

B

There was this dennit house on uh dennett off of dunnet street, up on prospect, hill, etc.

B

Rumored to be the second oldest wood structure in portsmouth I mean this thing was a very old house.

B

Probably first period, and essentially this contractor and his helper just went.

B

In and started demoing it and then of course they discovered all kinds of rotted sills and the floor.

B

Joists and all this stuff- and you know things had happened and I don't know what happened somehow or.

B

Another we turned it down the first time, but the second time it he made a better case and.

B

It was six to one. I was the only one that voted against it. You know. I said that.

B

You know somebody somebody like dave with five years of time could save this house. You know, but.

B

It should have been saved, you know, and now it's brand new and it looks it and it's condos.

B

And you know I I just it's one of those things I have to go like this when I walk by.

B

You know it's in your backyard, it's virtually in your backyard. Virtually uh I mean we do.

B

Walk, you know down the street quite a bit and there it is up there on the hill anyways. Well,.

B

That's why I'm afraid, because he didn't have the wherewithal. I don't think that this contractor he.

B

Was a young man, I don't think he'd ever bumped into something. A lot of these guys are used to.

B

You know marking a two by six uh for their framing and you know standing up walls and they get into.

B

An old house and they're lost, you know, and he didn't have the wherewithal, and I don't think that.

B

You know they just didn't, have the money and didn't realize what they were getting into.

E

I would just I would just rather have I'd rather have somebody buy a place like this.

E

And ask us to do work on the main structures instead of spending all the money. We know.

E

No disrespect to the people before, but they were doing all this. You know fantastic building and all.

E

This grand stuff- and they were just not going to do anything about the rotted seals and stuff and.

H

We're starting there yeah better to start with it's pretty scary. When you I hadn't.

B

Even considered that yeah, because they could have gone down into the basement and looked up.

B

Yeah, but they didn't they just all they thought of was a swimming pool. That.

B

Starts inside and went outdoors and it's a very elaborate plan. Well, I hope, if nothing.

F

Else we've illustrated that we're seeking out the people to try to help us we're not doing.

F

This in a vacuum, we understand that there's a lot of complexity here so okay, so I deployed that yeah.

B

Anyone in the public- oh, is there anyone in the public that wants to speak on this? No, no. There.

F

Is not damn okay, so I'm just going to close this work session and we're having a big piece.

B

Continue it yeah good job. Thank you. I remember that we continue the work session to next month.

B

Do we have a motion to adjourn.

B

We'll notice them to yes, whoever has not seen the building will notice you too, as soon as possible.