City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 6 Apr 2022

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4.6.2022 Historic District Commission

A

Recording in progress, okay, thank you very much. Okay. I want to welcome you all to the april 6th.

B

Meeting of the historic district commission um before we get started, I would uh again.

B

Like to put our hearts and prayers out to the people of ukraine and.

B

Hope that this carnage will stop quickly, um I'm going to do.

B

Introductions here first, I guess I'll do all the way over there I'm going to do hindsoak schubert.

B

Okay, I've got dan brown good evening. I've got martin ryan evening uh reagan, rudy. Well, I've got.

B

Next to me, uh nick cracknell from the planning department.

C

Good evening, good evening um I have got mr.

B

I'm sorry, I know councilman blaylock. Thank you very much good evening. I'm very sorry.

A

I have a lot of trouble with names: okay, margot doring, good after good evening,.

B

I've got mr adams good evening, yes and karen bouffard good evening. Okay, so I'm going to.

B

Read the statement we'll get rolling right along the board's action, and these matters.

B

Has been deemed to be quasi-judicial in nature, if any person believes any member of the board.

B

Has a conflict of interest? That issue should be raised at this point or it will be deemed waived.

B

Our first approval of minutes here- and we have quite a few.

B

Going back two months, so um I would say that we would take february, 2nd and february 9th.

B

Does anybody have any comments on that months? Minutes.

B

Okay, so uh if we could have a motion to approve those.

B

So moved, second, all those in favor all right and those opposed. Okay, then we have march 2nd.

B

And march 9th uh minutes, um so does anyone have a problem? Any comments.

B

So emotion so moved second and all those in favor all right all right. So we're doing very well.

B

Here now, administrative approvals um is there. Anybody has to recuse themselves from any of.

B

These administrative approvals- yes, I need to recuse myself from 64 on vernon street.

B

Okay, so we're going to have to pull 64 mount vernon out.

B

And uh would you want to do that one first, oh, we got another one down here. I'm going to accuse.

A

Myself from the 35 bow street: okay, okay, so we have bose feet and mount vernon number six number six.

C

I'd recommend that seven and ten come out as well, just because they're your mark from tbd.

C

To be determined yeah, so if you'd like I'll, do the remainder, why don't you do the quick ones that all.

C

Right so we've got uh item number one 28 chapel street rather than scroll through. All of these.

C

I think I'd sum it up by saying I wasn't sure when this was filed, whether tom needed to.

C

To come here for admin approval, there are a lot of items on the list. I would uh suggest after.

C

Having reviewed it thoroughly a couple of days ago that it looks like it's exempt from review.

C

Everything's, really a replacement in kind. I think the questions I had putting this on there.

C

A week ago, before I looked at what eventually was submitted, is uh the aluminum gutter being.

C

Removed and replaced in kind everything else, the flashing, the trim, the freeze board, the cladboards.

C

Any other repairs are all suggested to be instated as a replacement in kind and.

C

The applicant is also doing restoration on the windows, which is great. I think I provided the list.

C

Of window restoration, consultants or contractors several weeks ago and he's requesting to replace.

C

The aluminum storms with wood storms, which is one of the exempt categories so.

C

I don't think, there's a need for a presentation uh unless somebody saw something different and I I.

C

Think we could just approve it um in case there's something there. That's very, very minor yeah. um So.

C

That's 28 chapel does anybody have? May I interject absolutely um the building has been repaired. Many.

D

Times over the years, my cursory examination of the exterior looks like it was built around 1836.

D

It has its earliest cloud board in many locations on the building uh are.

D

Scarved there's been a lot of repair work done as with any and back in at another time,.

D

That repair work was done with uh just square edge butted cloud boards. I would think that if we.

D

Had an option of reinterpreting some of those areas, the damaged areas that need repair that we.

D

Ought to do so in a period fashion now, other than that I have no other issues. There's many original.

D

Features of the the construction of that house still there, with the exception of a window on the.

D

South side, um but I would think we'd want to celebrate that without any work done on that.

D

Building I appreciate you pointing that out. The reason that we bring collaborates here is a house.

C

On gate street, maybe six seven years ago, removed the siding and and did a butt joint instead of the.

C

Scarf yeah and it was treated as a replacement in kind wood, siding for wood, siding. That's why.

C

We bring it here, so I appreciate you pointing that out. That would normally be a stipulation of.

C

Any approval that would come from me as a replacement in kind, so I would suggest that.

C

You uh include that as a stipulation that the the joints be scarfed, if that's in fact,.

C

The uh are you okay with that, as the applicant he's in the front row, yeah he's good with it. So.

C

Thank you, david good point, excellent point: okay, so this are we good with that? Yeah, okay,.

C

The second uh item that was not pulled off is 92 pleasant street, which is the replacement windows.

C

This is the project that came before us for the work session. What they'd like to do, they're.

C

They're asking for a continuance of this second meeting of this month, where they were talking.

C

About windows, the balcony and the uh the siding and the new windows on the back, they will not be.

C

Doing that next week, what they're seeking today is the ability or the right to replace the.

C

The replacement windows that were put into the attic with the green mountain window.

C

I believe that it's a six over six sash to match the rest of the building and uh with.

C

The spacer bar and they are proposing to take the aluminum, siding off and and either remove repair.

C

Replace the uh the clabbert's wood for wood underneath any questions or comments on that.

E

I just I have a question about the screens: no half screens, we need right, it says no storms, no screens.

D

hmm Well, if they're not reply, I guess the windows that they're replacing could have screens.

D

That's what you're like? Why don't we just specify a half screen, yeah yeah yeah? It should be a half.

F

Screen but you don't want to put any screens, that's fine, too. Okay. Bear with me here. That's two.

C

Yep, okay, uh 284: newcastle ave is a request to construct a screen for an outdoor shower.

C

Seems well designed and not very visible from the public way any questions on that. One.

C

Okay, 137 daniel street is a replacement door in the alleyway between the former connie bean.

C

And the new bank building on the corner.

C

They are proposing to replace that door and have a different design. That's why they're here.

F

Sure didn't last very long. No, I think yeah. I don't know why.

B

Yeah, it looks like that glass is clouded, it leaked, yeah seal is broken yeah, so they're.

C

Making a fairly minor revision of the door with a bigger kick handle yeah they're, putting some.

B

Wood yeah all right, we're good on that. 137, okay, so we're gonna skip six skip; seven go to 77 wentworth.

C

This is uh an hvac being proposed with a screen, a louvered screen, so it seems to be. This is what.

C

We want to amend the exemptions to allow as of right in the future, but right now they've got.

C

To come here to to have that screen, approved and put in the condenser any questions on 77 wentworth.

C

I think the screen's on the last image in that application.

C

No yeah nope, no okay under deer street. um This is the port walk project.

C

At the far end on the deer street and the port walk place, they are proposing.

C

To replace the awning with a pergola, the awning, that's over that entryway now or.

C

The outdoor seating they'd like to put a more permanent structure as a pergola.

C

Black, I believe, yeah gloss black any questions or concerns the applicant is here. If you have.

C

Questions regarding that application, uh it's certainly not what I'm used to seeing as a pergola.

F

Is that so is this: this is just a basically a more rigid retractable. Awning rigid in that I.

E

Don't even know if it's retractable once you come to the mic yeah, I will pull it up. Sorry.

A

I would not have evan tormey uh representing uh parade hotel. I would not call it a pergola.

G

Either but that's what the company calls. It is a level one pergola. It's a retractable. Awning.

A

So the idea is to be able to use that space that seating area in inclement weather. So it's.

B

A permanent structure frame with a retractable fabric, awning- okay, great thank you. Okay,.

C

All right, that's it for the so-called easy ones, one one three, four five, eight.

A

And nine, with two stipulations: the half screen, if needed, on 92 pleasant.

C

And the scarf joints for the clan birds on 28th chapel is that on 10 I thought we should take.

C

Them out, okay, I'm not seeing this the form of the screening of that condenser on okay.

E

A

C

In case, that's not the case. They'll they'll come back with a screen. We don't we're. Reading this.

D

As not having its own root right, are you here for that? I am perfect owner of that property.

C

Perfect come forward. Please certainly, could you clear 77 wentworth street? Yes, as you mentioned,.

A

uh For those of you who are not familiar with the property, if you.

A

Were to go to this side of the building and look out the window across the pond.

A

It's that two-story, yellow house, the proposed location for the condenser, is actually in an area.

A

That is surrounded on four sides: there's a fence on one side, the.

A

Stairway on the right side and behind where the person took that picture is the garage so.

A

You can't see that from any other area, except from that one location, so we're more than willing to.

A

Put a thank you we're more than willing to put a little fence around it or whatever. It is.

A

But it's not visible from the street or from the uh from four sides. It's just not not visible.

B

Excuse me, but could you give your name please? My name is ed paulino, I'm the property owner. Okay,.

A

Yeah, I understand that, but you know it has to be it's on the books, so, okay, yeah. Thank you.

E

So I'm sorry so just to clarify what you're suggesting is that the condenser right now.

E

Is going to sit in front of the latticework but is not going to have its own independent.

E

Screening it's relying instead on the screening provided by the fence. Well, it could, if I may.

C

You'll have to take the mic if you're going to go over there.

A

That's pretty cool.

C

That's one way in the podium.

A

Can you hear me? Yes, yes, okay, this is the fence. The cemetery is on that side.

A

um This this part of the house sticks out this way and the condenser will be in here.

A

Where it's just not visible from any place other than, if you're standing.

A

Right about here, because I'm standing here looking at the condenser and behind me, is the garage. So if.

A

You were to look out the window here. You would see the garage you could not. You cannot see that area.

H

Is that that work, it's absolutely clear, so the only way that the unit would be seen is.

E

If that side fence ever came down yes and I'm going to replace it with a better fence, yeah.

A

There will always be a fence there, while I'm there.

E

Thank you for answering the questions. Anybody else have any heartaches about this.

C

C

All right, you want to deal with those yeah. Why not so one three four five.

C

Eight and nine, with the two stipulations I went over before.

F

uh I move that we approve those with the stipulations.

F

Seconded okay, all those in favor all right any against good. Chair vote. Sorry, okay, okay, 64 mount.

C

Vernon so reagan's out of this one right, so real quick! uh This is a this is the condenser with.

C

The louvered screen as the last sheet so sorry, I misspoke on the earlier one I'll pull it up.

C

Pretty hi I'm erica beer, I'm the property owner at 64, mount vernon.

A

Yep um we um the back side of our property, about city hall in the parking lot.

A

um And where this unit will be it's a standard unit um will be behind the house. It's not really.

A

Very visible from the street my husband's offered to put a structure up around it, similar to that.

A

E

I'll make a motion that we approve it as presented. Okay, second, all right, all those in favor, aye, aye.

B

Against. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Number, six 35 bow street.

C

For rich, this is um moving a condenser at 35 bow street from.

C

One location to where there's already existing mechanical equipment that.

C

Was suggested is already screened, um screen looked hard to see to me, but let me get there. 35 vote.

B

Getting there that's half the problem all right. It looks like a literal screen like yeah, exactly.

C

Right right here.

C

Anyway, they're moving it to where they have all the existing mechanicals.

B

Does everyone understand this.

B

Somebody like to make a motion.

A

F

I'll second, okay, all those in favor, say aye aye against. Okay. We have that.

C

Has anyone ever seen a screen like that? No, no.

C

Odd, okay, we have 414 state street to go. This is a mini split condenser with the.

C

The conduit running up the outside of the building to the second floor.

C

Didn't appear to me that, as any screening was being suggested for the mini split.

C

I don't know if anyone's here for that property, 414 state anybody, okay,.

C

I don't know if anybody else saw a proposed screen or whether it needed it, but.

C

Unfortunately, this is all you see a plethora of gas meters six and protecting.

B

Posts, but I would also say in all honesty that the garbage cans are just as bad as anything else.

F

So is there already one chase going up? No! No! No! What's that aluminum thing.

D

It's an escape ladder. It's a collapsible escape ladder. It was pointed out as a.

F

As a fire escape, but I didn't understand it, it's very ingenious. Unfortunately, it's white.

E

Yes, they've been a couple of places and it looks like and they are stipulating that it just be the.

F

Brown plastic, so I would like to stipulate that it wouldn't be. They wouldn't be painted. Certainly.

B

So when what are suggestions for screening, this thing.

E

I, when I walked the site, it looked like there's, not a whole lot of room.

E

For screening, particularly right, it's going to be plowed. There is a good picture here and no it.

B

Doesn't even look like well, it might be two feet: 34 inches yeah to the edge of pavement.

C

So does a does a fin make any sense.

C

Given the presuming the public ways on the left in the floor, foreground right.

C

Does it make sense that you know if there was a a fin screen? There would also help with it.

C

You mean just coming out yeah coming out square from the house.

E

Yeah is: is this a? Is this a condo situation? Where are they only yeah yeah.

F

um Sure a fan would at least provide a little bit of screening.

F

F

Still pretty open to the main street, but from this angle yeah it's definitely a couple more steps and.

C

You'd be behind that the fin pretty fast.

A

Like a trellis or something said well, just like one side of a three-sided.

C

Screen still louvered yeah yeah right come up to the mud board.

C

It could actually even be a solid, solid panel, solid panel, because there's no ventilation right.

C

Well, do we want to stipulate that and if they have a problem with it, they can come back, sounds good.

C

Yeah sure and sounds like, maybe I can then suggest they, while they're painting the conduit. They paint.

C

The ladder every damn thing gets painted like the thing behind it: right: yeah, yeah, okay, that's.

B

A good way of wrapping it up would somebody make that motion. It says that now in the application he.

A

Says he's going to paint the color of the building, but no we didn't say that. Okay, it's a yeah. It's.

F

Written on here, the brown plastic pipe. But I guess that's just what is actually going to be installed.

F

What I see says: brown on red building, yeah all right. Well, we'll! Let's stipulate it so it's clear.

A

Yes, it's yeah, it's the application that says: uh okay, paint the fortress, the same color as.

E

The building, okay, all right, I'm I'm have to say I'm not thrilled with putting the.

E

Conduit up the side of this house, this is such a beautiful structure, I'm struggling with it.

F

This is the situation that we've been in before, where we have condo units and you.

F

Can't with without pressures at all I'd like to suggest that the applicant, I would like to see.

D

The applicant given another whack, maybe there's something from the back of the building. This is.

D

Pretty right off the street, I anyway that's my thoughts. It's a beautiful building and it's just.

D

Okay, I mean we do have another week. If you know I can get that message tomorrow. If other.

C

People feel the same way to the applicant and they could be on next week's agenda.

C

And be here and explain why this is the preferred why this is the.

C

Right location, yeah I mean I, I can see from their plan their sort of schematic plan. Why.

F

It needs to be where it is because that's just the room that they want to target, but.

F

I don't know, I don't know, I'm looking at six gas meters and, like we said an aluminum.

B

Escape ladder, that's not painted and a pile of garbage cans in the driveway.

B

I don't know add to it. How does um if somebody wants to make a motion? That's fine I'll, just vote.

D

uh Mr chairman, I'd like to move that we remand this to a revisit next week by the applicant.

D

Okay, a second pat, okay, all those in favor.

C

All righty all right, I think the applicant might be here yeah. um The applicant is seeking a.

C

Modification to the previously approved uh design for the project, I think there's two components of.

C

The request one is that the siding which um this deciding there are three options presented to you.

C

As a substitute, I guess the third option was maybe the original approval, the preference of.

C

The applicant is the first of three options, which is to use hardy plank on the entire.

C

House the second option being hardy plank on all sides, except for the front and the third being.

C

I think only on the back on the addition was the hardy plank, I think, but in the original approval.

C

Right, but there was hardy plank, I think allowed on that on the edition. Was there not.

C

You don't think so. Okay, all right! So that's the siding piece. The second part of the request.

C

Is that the applicant go from presumably a sash replacement to a new construction window?.

C

Because of some concern about the framing on the existing windows, is that more or less correct.

B

Could this person come up and uh put his name in, please introduce himself.

B

Wow persons, persons- then you all- have to introduce yourselves. Okay.

A

uh Tim malloy property owner sue, molloy property owner, uh hubert craw, the designer.

B

So um the designer might tell why the uh replacement windows can't go in.

I

Okay, uh so right now we have replacement windows already in existing ancient sashes.

I

The idea was to preserve those sashes, but you need to just move together: okay, yeah. The idea was.

I

To preserve the existing sashes, but upon closer inspections, it's pretty obvious that there we will.

I

Find some serious troubles there and then went up into the attic looked at another one of these.

I

The existing window frames, it was half rotted out and that's the lower of the pictures. That's an.

I

Existing window jam from the 1800s that is pretty much dead by now yeah and the what the other.

I

Photograph shows shows how bad those frames and uh casings already are and how leaky they are.

I

So we are very likely to find rotted existing frames in there.

I

So it makes it a whole lot more uh sensible to replace it with new construction windows.

A

Any questions, so can you remind us the the window trim that we see here on the upper picture.

F

Is that all remaining or is that getting replaced as well? No, that gets replaced.

I

That was already a replacement at one point and just didn't fit with the.

I

With the style of the house at all, so no the window would get new trim anyway. Okay,.

A

It was sort of an oversight we thought they were all new construction windows approved.

A

And then we went to order the windows and realized for some reason.

A

When we left here, we said replacement on the front which I don't really know, the difference.

A

The windows are all going to look exactly the same: the new construction and the replacement, but.

B

Well, I just say one of the the biggest changes with new construction windows.

B

Is you do have to tear all the casings off on the outside you're, probably going to tear all.

B

Your interior casings, the trim off okay, so you're, going to get right down to the studs.

B

And then you're going to put these new new construction windows on the sheathing, which.

B

Is on the studs and then you have to put new exterior casings and interior casings on.

B

And try to match everything up to what was there as far as the siding and all that goes.

B

um What I'm wondering is uh how do we uh this look? This trim looks very old to me. This.

B

These outside casings, we discussed that when we were here last and it was approved to to replace.

A

That site replace, replace the existing casing casing and that wasn't original to the house.

A

When the house was built that you know it said that was a period time, that corner was eventually.

A

That was probably uh installed somewhere in the early 20th century yeah, really the existing one.

D

Is is just flat uh stock with a with a band molding with a back band molding around it.

F

They had an example of the original and that's what you're going to replace correct, yeah. Okay,.

F

um I my inclination, as far as the siding goes I'll just say. My inclination is to.

F

Do the second option, where you have wood, siding, at least on the facade just because.

F

You are right up on the street and people walk by and it really is a texture thing.

F

To me, the hardy board just screams, it's that it's hardy board. You know just it to me. It looks um so.

F

I think, having that real wood siding on the facade is important, I mean we're trying to preserve the.

A

House is aluminum; now I mean yeah, I don't know who would ever put aluminum on the house so.

A

You know and preserving we're not just trying to preserve what's there now, because it's.

A

Just awful, no, you know the cost has become and I know costs shouldn't always take.

A

The cost has become astronomical for the project. I mean we're paying more for the project that we.

A

Paid for the home 10 years ago and we'd like to bring it, you know, make it look as authentic as we.

A

Can with being able to sort of be able to afford to live there? And you know when we bought the home.

A

Years ago, that you know I don't know we we talked about, we were under the impression.

A

That the wood was the same as the hardy board. It was a wash and then when we went to get the cost.

A

We were just like you're kidding, you know it's like so I mean we'd like to do whatever we can.

A

To maintain it, but also be able to like live in the house, and we don't want to have to leave the.

A

Aluminum on the front, because if we're forced to have to make a change and I'm going to have.

A

To leave what we have and it's just going to look awful with the new construction and then.

A

I'll just say: there's no doubt you guys are making a vast improvement to this house and.

F

We all agreed on that with the previous um application, so I think that's great.

F

This is just something that we generally ask for most applicants when you have.

F

You know the front of the house or your building is really right. Close to the street, I mean that's.

F

That's right, we do ask for wood, at least in that, in those cases do you have you seen the.

A

Mixture mix that I mean I've heard they can match it pretty close, but it's not I mean.

A

Because most of the house, you don't see from the streets, it's kind of um we're sort of down.

B

So uh is this it's just a two-story colonial on the front facade! That's what we're asking for.

B

Okay, um I'm just using some general figures here of 24 feet in height and 36 feet wide.

B

I'm coming up with um around 724 square feet without subtracting the windows and the door.

B

Drops it way down, your contractor has a difference in price between the cement, siding and putting.

B

Wood siding on the front of six thousand dollars. Yes, something's wrong. That's right!.

B

Something is wrong: that's well over ten dollars a square foot more and that the wood siding doesn't.

B

Even cost ten dollars a square foot but he's got that as ten dollars more than the cement siding.

B

I just want to say uh mine: I mean that just came and screamed out at me as I was a contractor and.

B

Resided many houses- and um this just screamed at me that something's wrong here.

B

So I don't know if this is your best friend or what but something's wrong.

B

So I can't accept your uh money figures as a reason to not put wood siding on the front.

B

That's just me: does anybody else have any opinions? Yes, margo. I'm sorry for the same.

E

Reason that reagan says the the front of the building, because it's so close to the.

E

Street should be wood. Your sides are also very very close to the street because you know it's.

E

Not a big house um so where I could see using something else on the back in the new addition.

E

And on the back of the entire house, because there's the new addition: it's all one plane so.

E

To speak, I really feel it's important to have the wood on the front and on the sides of the house.

E

And I hope that somebody has done something wrong with their math, so that what john suggests is.

E

Possible uh margo. I would also say um that that really makes sense and.

B

It just slipped right by me, but the cement siding is usually five inches to the weather.

B

If not six inches to the weather and we would be requiring the wood siding to be in the four.

B

Inch range, if not a bit less, why when what's up there now is like super? Like I mean it's probably.

A

Six inches: oh that's more! Eight! It's a little bit! That's aluminum side, yeah, right yeah! I know.

B

Yeah it's wrong for the house. I don't care about. What's on that, aluminum siding what.

B

You know when you're making a change, then, all of a sudden, your change, has to come under review.

A

What was your comment or question? I'm sorry, I'm not tracking your your fiber cement, siding.

B

Is usually placed five inches to the weather? Can I give you that? Can I bring that sure? Okay.

C

Down the end, yep, it started down there. So are you saying that this is four inches to the weather.

B

Roughly, um would you be.

B

Well, the thing is is if we, if we make, that a stipulation and then your siding.

B

Contractor goes along and puts it um five inches to the weather. uh It's going to stop.

J

John, can I stick to this go ahead. I I think the front elevation is a good compromise. If you would.

J

With the front elevation and hearty plank on the sides, I disagree with some of your calculations.

J

There, john, I mean when you go to a box retailer and you pay 48 for a sheet of osb. That used to be.

J

You know ten dollars a sheet: yeah yeah. The prices are extremely high and.

J

You know yeah it's a premium to have anything built in this economic environment labor. Is it off.

J

The charts you're lucky, if you even get a decent contractor, so um I think a good compromise is.

J

Like reagan said to do the front and to allow hardy plank on the sides- and I I'd support that.

G

Thank you and the note 2. This is not the only bid that we received, certainly we're getting.

G

Multiple quotes and there's been another builder, who has had an even higher price for the siding.

J

And I would add, we are seeing an aluminum-sided building getting.

J

Special treatment, I would add that you mean if it has wood siding on the front.

B

Yes, the hardy board's, the big upgrade from the aluminum. Yes, one for the detail um from the.

E

My recollection and the pictures we're seeing of your house, there are no corner boards in the front.

E

Is that right, oh no, there will be a trim. Those are being added. Yes, okay, so we're not going to see.

E

Wood siding and hardy board butt with each other about four and a half inches apart.

B

Okay, so is that it any questions david, um I'm uncomfortable.

D

And I'm concerned about the money, I had almost identical reaction to you and the cost figures.

D

And and I try to slap myself down that we're not supposed to be measuring what.

D

We're doing here by dollars and cents, but they included him to get us and they did.

D

The thing that's bugging me right now, because um it's just a moment here, but um that we.

D

Have a building where we know precisely what the cornerboard sizes were because they're still there.

D

We can't see them they're covered with aluminum. We know exactly what the coursing of the cloud boards.

D

Were when they were building was built and probably have a fairly good idea of what.

D

The original window trim looked like that was there before this stuff was put on just guessing.

D

Anyway, and we're not gonna I'll gain any of that information, it seems like whether we allow them.

D

Or think we approve the use of a cementitious siding material. It ought to in some way reflect.

D

The history of the house, which is nothing to do with the material itself, but simply a measurement.

D

Of the coursing and it's there and we just don't- have the opportunity to see it. It bugs me.

D

That we're in this bind that I I'm making a decision that I wouldn't make lightly for a client.

D

If I still have them- um and uh you don't do it with my hands on my face, did you notice the dotted.

B

Lines uh on that piece of siding that sample- I I don't have my scale with me, but I saw dotted lines.

D

But I wasn't sure if they were kneeling lines or it seems to me that that's closer to five inches.

A

Oh yeah, please, okay, yeah great, I think that's a nailing line, not an exposure line.

D

I think it's a line to bring the next row of siding five and three eighths five and a quarter.

B

The reason I say that david with, uh if you were, to put the siding down another inch.

B

um All of a sudden that siding is, you know it could be like this. It could come out the same.

D

Thing, however, you put the stuff on you'd, have to put it on a can't strip at the for a starter, yeah.

A

Very long you have to do that yeah anyway, I don't know yeah, I'm I'm more bothered by the fact that I.

D

Have been things that I just are being hidden from me: okay! Well, um so we had a problem. The.

I

Drawings also showed, but we had found this- that the bottom course yeah the original it's about.

I

Five and a quarter or five and a half, I forget the exact numbers and that the next courses are four.

I

Four inch courses- our builder here- is very well aware of that, and I spoke with him this.

I

Afternoon and he's also very committed to give it as much of the original look as possible.

I

A

uh So I guess the windows. Are we good with them? I mean I mean you know, they're all getting new trim.

F

So yeah they're all getting new trims. I don't have a problem with the windows. Yep we've already.

B

Proved the windows, so that's that's gone. So we have this siding situation and we're going to.

B

See what happens here would somebody make a motion I'll make a motion to.

F

Approve the windows and to prove option number two for the siding, with the um hope that you.

F

Guys are still going to keep looking and talking to people and, hopefully figuring out. You know.

F

If you can either figure out somebody who can give you a better price- or um I don't know, but.

F

But you know just keep working towards the wood in front and hardy on the sides and and making it.

F

Match up to four inches as best you can and if not, if you can't, if that's not possible, you'll have to.

F

Come back to us, can we have a second I'll? Second, that all righty um can, mr chairman, can you ever.

D

Repeat the motion yeah, I'm sorry so clarify the the approval of the of new construction windows.

F

And option two for the siding so that there would be wood on the facade and hardy on the other sides.

E

With a reveal of four inches, as as approved in the drawings.

F

The original plans- okay, that's pretty clear.

B

So all those in favor say a discussion, a question: do we do we have examples of the meeting in other.

A

Houses, I think they asked. How does it look you do? I don't think? No, I don't know we do.

F

We have no yeah, we haven't believed them when you have a corner board, it's a secret okay,.

B

Okay, so um all those in favor say aye, aye, aye, chair votes, high, those against against against.

B

One against, and so that's it option, two! Okay. Thank you. Good luck. Thanks a lot get this done.

B

B

So we're into public hearings, petition of ronald and rasa stone owners for property.

B

Located at 55 gate street is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure.

B

Replace windows, repair or replace, siding and trim repair foundation, replace bulkhead and remove.

B

Chimney as per plans on file in the planning department said, property is shown on assessor.

B

Map 103 as lot 90 lies within general residence b and historic district, who is here to present this.

H

Good evening, anne whitney here with the architect for the project.

H

What we're proposing here is to replace the windows.

H

The elevate the marvin elevate, the siding and trim, is.

H

Pretty bad rip disrepair plus there are some structural issues that we're going to shore up.

H

Some of the siding has been replaced and it's kind of patched together.

H

So I think in looking at this carefully, it seemed to make sense to do a full replacement.

H

To um and we can we'll be matching you know to weather on the different facades.

H

On this first sheet, you know the window schedule and just a couple different views.

H

I didn't draw the front elevation just because we aren't changing.

H

Anything so you know the five windows at the top and the four on the first floor.

H

If we go to the second page, it shows the washington street elevation. There are two.

H

One stories there's one story bay and then to the left. There's a one-story little bump out.

H

The bay has a brick foundation, but it's really collapsing so the windows on that side. There have.

H

Been completely distorted, it's only about this wide a window and it's about an inch and a half.

H

So we're going to have to be doing some structural work there replace the brick.

H

Set that foundation, so it can go back up to square the little bump out on the left.

H

Didn't have a foundation, it's got we're going to have to put a new post in and kind of rework that.

H

And I was thinking we would just do vertical siding. We might actually have some weather.

H

Tightening behind that, but that it's really hard to see it's sort of tucked in that back corner.

H

But we're going to have to be reworking that on the the main elevation, the windows will.

H

Just be replaced um and then on the as you step back, um the similar sized windows are in there.

H

And I'm proposing to downside those because we're going to be residing to the 1 foot, 10 double hung.

H

It just it felt like it, we didn't need they're, both bathrooms and those large windows.

H

Didn't seem to make a lot of sense to put back there in those situations.

H

On the next page,.

H

Which is the courtyard or right side elevation? There's a six foot fence that runs along.

H

Gate street, and so this this elevation, really just the upper part of it, can be seen from the street.

H

Currently, um there's a two panel french door, patio door. What would be replacing with the three panel.

H

The back of this property, which we'll see next, is really close to the property line.

H

So they're minimal windows so we're trying to get a lot of light into this.

H

um Into the side, the three windows again would be replaced. The current bulkhead there has just got a.

H

Plywood cover we'll probably shore that up a bit and get a metal cut painted metal cover for that.

H

This is the chimney that we're proposing to remove we're, trying to open up.

H

That one space to have one larger room- and that's the one you see here on that view of.

H

That right side elevation, you can see it here and then, if you go to the next page.

H

The hancock street, this back of this property, is pretty visible from hancock street.

H

So that there's another chimney.

H

On the on the right side of this rear elevation, that would be keeping.

H

um I've got some the other thing that's happening with this again um on this rear elevation. We have.

H

Two pretty large um double hung windows and I want to downsize those to that c unit. uh One foot ten.

H

With the two over twos, when you downsize, you don't put a mutton bar in it's sort of the the single.

H

Unit is the pain size of you know, the wider double hung and again that's another bathroom and.

H

They're there there's a tiny little sort of slide by in the kitchen.

H

And that's the size of it and that would just be replacing a window in that same location.

H

We have some limitations because we're so close to the property line on this.

H

On this and what we can do for, if anything, I can downsize a bit.

H

Lower left there, you know the condition of the exterior has got a million coats of paint.

H

And the sills are pretty rotten. The windows inside have been puttied and patched they're.

H

Pretty much non-functional and I don't think they're something that could be restored.

H

So down below this is not what we're going to be doing, but it this is the marvin elevate.

H

In a black situation, we're going to be using the stone white, but just to show what the.

H

Profile looks like with a historic sill and a five quarter flat casing. In this case, we would.

H

Be matching the casing that's existing, but that just shows it's a fairly clean installation.

H

And we'd be doing a stonewhite.

H

Cladding for these, these windows.

H

um uh Are there any questions.

H

Yeah go ahead dan. um Is there a good view of the two chimneys I'm trying I'm a little.

B

Confused and I walked by the house too- and it's a little bit yeah, it's hard actually.

H

It took me a while to get photos of the chimneys. If you go to two of two.

H

um Actually, yeah there's two views of that that chimney that's a little more hidden.

H

That's the one that's on the the main on the right side of the main, the main.

H

Structure, so you can see it there and there um do you mean it doesn't go up super high.

F

See the page number again, I think one of four is what I can see it.

F

Oh actually, uh one of four: you can only see the one we're removing.

F

Right but if you go to the next page, um the other chimney is um before that's on that.

H

And I'm trying to see if there's another yeah, that's the only you can so clear. So clarifying.

E

The chimney you want to remove is the one that comes up through the back l. Is that correct? Yes,.

H

If you look at the um four of four, you see that back gable as it's viewed from hancock street.

H

And then the elevation is showing that that that elevation and it's a chimney that runs up.

H

On the left-hand side of that gable, do you know if the two chimneys date from the same time, because.

E

They don't look like they're lined up when you no they. I don't think they do. I don't think they do.

H

Because this this little bump out was added on at some point, it's still pretty rough. You know.

H

Primitive framing in the basement of that bump out, but that was definitely not part of the original.

H

Structure so the original structure, as far as you know, only had one chimney or when they put the.

E

L on they took the chimney hard to say, I think um it's hard to say from because there's been a.

H

Lot of interior renovations, but um I know that the one on the washington street side, you know.

H

There's an old um surround for a cold coal stove and that's inside the envelope of the existing.

H

Actually, they both are and floor plan wise, um so it's possible that they were both.

H

Both originally there but they're different heights, which seems kind of funny.

H

Worst case, if you know you really don't want to lose, this chimney, we'd be willing to to do a faux chimney in this location.

B

Thank you is anybody else um you have in a page, four or four. You have an inset showing a.

D

Marvin window with a wood trim. Yes, there's species species of wood. Yeah do you know.

D

Oh no, this was actually a builder that was his own house, um usually um we're using the lifespan.

H

Which is a non-finger jointed treated mariata pine, that's got two coats of primer and then.

H

The silv often will do out of mahogany just because it holds the paint.

D

The inset photograph shows this sill with ears, whereas in the house it doesn't appear.

D

That they're yeah! No, I did this just to show the mainly the how the trim can.

H

Relate to the window and and the profile of the window itself, but we would be matching.

H

The no ears, I couldn't find an example that was exactly like this, but we would be matching the.

H

The the sill of the existing house and the it's a fairly wide band mold on the on the windows.

H

And you're thinking of reusing a band mold of that size, yes, um just a hint that you best communicate.

D

That to the guy, that's making your sills so that they're wide enough for it to land on! Because it's.

D

Oh, no, definitely, definitely you can see he did the guy that did this. One is also going to be doing.

H

That and it's joe teravacchia and he's done a lot of restoration and yes, um I can't help but wonder.

D

Why, with an element, the size of the triple slider that you're putting in that it doesn't have a hood.

D

Is that something that you thought about and decided for some reason that I don't understand.

D

What do you mean? A cover, seems kind of.

D

Kind of I don't know garage like without any so a little more head casing, you're talking.

D

Something it seems like it needs something to to to give it and give it a little more weight.

D

Mass that something that a little bit more than a one by four with a band on it, yep.

D

Five quarters yep. I I would think that something there would be uh would help a great deal, but also.

D

Allow you an opportunity maybe to line the head of it up with the head of the window. Next to it,.

H

Oh, I see it's it's a little bit lower. Well, that's what it looks like here. I don't know for sure.

D

Well, I could do that. We could have a stipulation that I would you know, reworked we find without.

D

Coming back, illustrative uh stipulation, rework just how that top trim is being done.

H

Yep how that the whole surround of that door? um You could get that as stipulation. I would be fine.

H

um Yeah. Thank you very much. I just want to say one thing before: okay before you go uh the widest.

B

Band molding, um that is part of the brosco catalog, is a one and three quarter inch. It's number 8469.

B

Yeah but you've got sound from you, can get things made up and you're usually going to have.

B

Them made up most likely because with exterior you want to be having them made out of not just.

H

Pine, um okay, so they would get made up and there's a couple different sources that we use for.

H

Recreating that that's fine reagan, yeah, I just I mean this. This application strikes me as.

F

Getting rid of a lot of historic material and um you know the wood cladbirds fine. I did go by and.

F

See yes, there are a lot of replacement clubbers already and doing the whole thing, but I.

F

You say repair place, existing trim details like. Are you going to strip all the trim.

F

Off and replace it, not all the trim, but there's places where it's definitely in in disrepair. Okay,.

H

And um but I think the siding I think the window trim, because in order to do the windows, we're.

H

Going to need to replace the trim and then uh and then the windows, I mean the siding.

H

Is you know really a mixed bag of new and kind of patch things and but in terms of the corner.

H

Boards and the freeze and the you know the roof trim a lot of it's not in bad shape.

H

Okay, but there's some of it that's going to have to be repaired, um I'm not totally.

F

Comfortable with the replacement of all these windows, they all I mean I went by and they.

F

All looked to be in decent condition: they're not original, obviously, because they're two over twos.

F

But they are historic um and I just um they're not really repairable on the inside there's a lot of.

H

Things that um they've used putty to fill in things you'd have to really just do all new sash.

H

And that's really talking about all new windows and they they're kind of none of them open, they've,.

H

Had weird kind of hardware put in with lots of screws and things so I mean I'll, say: I've had all.

F

Of our very similar windows restored, and they, if you get the right carpenter to do it, it can work.

F

Very nicely, with no I've done that before too, but so in these, but that what you haven't provided in.

F

This application is a lot of these a lot of photos documenting this, so I I can't say that I'm ready.

F

To put these in a dumpster- um and I just I feel like with all new siding and new trim and new.

F

Windows and everything, essentially, this house is going to look brand new. um It's not all new trim.

H

And a lot of the siding's been replaced, you know at other times and you can do new wood, siding that.

H

Will you know not make it look like a new house, you know fine weather and we, I don't want to argue.

F

For dad about this, I'm just saying this is what my.

F

My sense of this application is going to be a very s, uh spanking new, looking house, so.

F

I'll just say that I'm not um comfortable with the replacement of the windows.

F

Quite yet, until you provide more information about them, okay, so other opinions, questions.

A

When do you think those windows were put in, um they aren't they? Don't they don't have weights.

H

But then they, but they don't have aluminum or you know, kind of the sash things that.

H

Would have been in you know the last 50 or 60 years. um So it's it's hard to say yeah. I think.

H

The weights probably were removed at one point and then these new sashes were put in, but they.

H

They're um there's a lot of leakage and they're just in really the sashes themselves.

H

Are in just very poor condition and in a few places, especially the bay where things are.

H

There's a fair amount of interior structural work, we're going to be doing because the whole sort of.

H

Middle of the house is kind of sinking down which doesn't affect you guys, but it's affected.

H

A lot of you know, door, jambs and windows, and things are really out of square in in the house.

A

The city, I think, dates this house at 1790. Is that right? Do you think david? That's good, really, yeah.

H

It's unusual to have that inset, you know front door opening that might have been done later on.

C

1850 is the uh yeah, it is the 1980 survey yeah. Okay, that's what.

B

I mean that doesn't sit well with me. I'm looking at the siding, for instance,.

B

Is very close together: it's not 1850s clapboard siding the fact that there's no weights indicates.

B

To me that this house was not built for windows that have weights, in other words,.

B

The rough opening between the studs would have another three or four inches on each side for.

B

The weights to go up and down so low and behold it's not there. So I think when this house was.

B

Built it probably had six over six or nine over six on the first floor, six over six upstairs I'm.

B

Thinking this house is much older, um I'm seeing a lot of victorian details. Yes, it was given a little.

B

A little push around 1880 or something like that, um but in my opinion the house is old.

B

And um I'm agreeing with your comments uh concerning the siding and the windows.

B

I'm not sure if these are the windows I'd want to see in there, though,.

B

Is there any other comments.

F

Could should we have some sort of sight, walk or somebody.

A

Shared to check out the windows that would just give me more information on them. I also.

F

Have to say, I'm not. I haven't been too thrilled with the way that the elevate windows work, but.

F

They look when they're installed, but that's just me um well, they're, right on the sidewalk.

B

Yeah, so could we plan a sight walk? Is that something that would be good? I live on this street.

D

So I'm definitely for looking into this thing and being certain I think, we're swimming around with.

D

Issues we unsolve things I'd like to be certain. We should be able to pull that off. Yeah yeah.

B

Can we get in the house? Yes, even better the owners here tonight? Yeah, yes, and I have access brownies.

H

Yeah we'll have a sugar high and we'll run all over this place yeah. um So I guess that.

B

um We need to uh meet up with nick here and okay schedule, we'll coordinate that a site walk and.

F

Yeah is it okay to continue, or do you need continue continue uh any of the other pieces.

H

I think it makes sense just to continue because otherwise you know it's, um this is the bigger.

H

Issue um and chairman, I move that we continue this to uh next week. Certainly to may don't make it two.

D

Minutes I'd have to go to may yeah all right yep, because that would give some time to let's get.

B

Something to have the site I'll, second, that, okay, all right, so all those in favor.

B

B

Okay, so we've moved on to a petition of 531 islington street portsmouth llc owner.

B

For property located at 531 islington street, which we all know as dunkin donuts.

B

Wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure.

B

New signage, siding and other exterior improvements, as per plans on file in the planning department.

B

Said properties shown on assessor map, 157 is lot, 5 lies within the character district.

B

4 l2 and historic districts who here is to present this? Am I not seeing something.

B

Is anyone out there with dunkin donuts.

B

Let it be said that I didn't make that funny: noise.

A

But I would have, it would have been more of a you who.

B

Rich, I'm sorry man, I forgot, you know my mind. Just goes black yeah. No, no.

B

I I know you know.

F

All right, I move that we continue this application to next month next month, because we have a full.

F

Agenda next week, yeah we do have a full agenda, so it's going to have to go today.

J

So that they'd be prepared again, would it help to make some comments so that, if they watch this.

J

They'll be prepared for that next uh hearing, um I'm not really sure what they can do. We have to.

C

Pass them on to me and I'll open up the public shoot me an email with any suggestions at all.

B

Okay, uh all those in favor all right; okay, those against so moving right along.

B

It's the shame. I was looking forward petition of david and ellen kozell owners for property located.

B

At 75 gate street, whereas permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure.

B

Remove cedar shake siding and replace with cedar, clapboards and repair or replace the existing trim.

B

As per plans on file, you know the planning department said: property is shown on.

B

Assessor map 103 is lot 93 lies within the general residence be in historic districts.

G

Welcome hi, uh my name is jeff halderson, I'm representing the causals um and I'm dave.

J

Calls on the owner of 75 gates: okay, welcome! Okay, can I bring this up? It's just a picture.

G

So if you, um if you know gate street at all, you all know this house.

G

It was built in 1933 uh and it's the uh referred to as the candy store um it's in the last uh since.

G

2002, it's gone through four owners, um it's had a lot of individual touches done to it and it's.

G

It's really non-conforming already to the the area um to to be more specific, the closest.

G

Can't go down the street without and you know somebody finding out that they live at 75 gate.

G

Street and somebody telling them how they need to renovate the front of their house.

G

That's just a constant um what they have asked permission to do. Is they want to.

G

Remove the the cedar shakes on the front of the house and trim it out and put up clapboard.

G

The clapboard we'll be using as far as construction goes. I've been working with.

G

A company, I'm sure you guys are aware of the mill, clap or the word clapboards out in vermont.

G

And you know I've done a lot of clapboard, but he knows a lot more about it than I do.

G

So he's been uh he's been recommending um what to use in a historical area like that.

G

The kosovo's also hired a person to come out and give us some advice on. You know what would be.

G

Appropriate in a historic area like that, so you know things that you know I was unaware.

G

Of you know doing scarf joints and things like that. If you look at the picture in front of you.

G

Between what? What ward offers for for clapboard and the lengths that they.

G

Offer we don't run into any butt joints or scarf-joint situations like that.

G

So basically, what we'd like to what we'd like to get permission to do is to put on.

G

The vertical grain clapboard from ward.

G

And to use windsor one pre-primed and fix the siding. That's already there, the siding.

G

There needs to be, you know, needs to be cleaned up, no matter whether we go with.

G

Fixing it with clapboard or fixing it with the cedar shakes. It's just been.

G

It hasn't really been very well maintained. The whole house, in fact you know, has been personalized.

G

And the last people that occupied it really didn't take care of the house, so the kosovo's purchased.

G

The house, it's their retirement home, they moved up here and uh you know they came and visited. You.

G

Know portsmouth quite often and decided. This is where they wanted to retire to so they purchased.

G

This house and they've been doing a lot of work to try and just clean up the property in general.

G

uh There's fiberglass doors on it. They, you know, we came to you and you gave us permission to replace.

G

Those um and just the the property in general has been neglected, so we've hired a company to.

G

Come in and clean up, you know the windows and just everything in general, the one thing that we would.

G

Like to do is to try and make the front of the building fit a little bit more with the property.

G

The bump outs on the property, the bay windows- you know everybody has, you know, everybody wants those.

G

Cut off but realistically that's not a possibility. The way the house is constructed, the house.

G

If you've been through the house or you've been in the house, you know that the house is kind of a.

G

Modge podge of whatever things that people could find when they were building in at that time,.

G

The the overall construction of the signing I mean it was just kind of thrown up there. So what.

G

I've worked with and talked with, pat from richie lumber before we want to do a modern underlayment.

G

Something that's appropriate for watershed, so a modern underlayment with a historic.

G

Covering um we're going to have to go, as you all know, that there's a lot of different problems with.

G

Resources right now, I spoke with gentlemen ward today as far as what's available now,.

G

He says that he can accommodate the four inch anywhere from a four four four to four and a.

G

Quarter inch reveal um with what he has in stock, southern yellow, pine or douglas fir.

G

We can't really control what we can get, but you know as far as as far as historically goes.

G

I mean I, could you know, search around and find anything else, but the person that I had come and.

G

Go over the whole process of historic restoration and historic siding because.

G

Honestly, it was new to me: I've been building a lot. I've been doing a lot of new construction.

G

But we want to make sure that since we're doing such a major change.

G

That we're going about it appropriately, so we had somebody with a lot more historic.

G

You know knowledge of siding somebody that worked predominantly in in the historical area. He came.

G

Out- and this is the company that he referred us to- uh and this is the company that um has.

G

A proper supply of quarter sawn wood. You know it's a bit more expensive, but you know we don't.

G

We're not looking to get off the shelf home depot, you know cedar. Can I interrupt you for one second.

B

So you say: remove cedar shake siding. This is just on the front just on the front and replace.

B

With cedar clapboards right, okay, so now all of a sudden you're talking about quarter-sawn, siding.

B

You're talking about douglas fir you're talking about what are you talking about? I'm talking.

G

About what's what was it currently available to us today to purchase from this company from.

G

Reese's, no from from ward clappers out of vermont; okay, they they, they mill historical clapboards.

F

Right, so that's what he's proposing so are these historical clapboards? Are they.

B

Feather-Edged yes and they're sharp edged on the other end correct. Okay, just like the one.

A

It's a company that that that was referred to us that specifically makes yes.

D

Just a second though, I've got to say if the building was built in 1930, I would have said 1920.

D

Then a historic cloud board would be a cloudboard that matched a building that.

D

Was built in 1920, wouldn't it I mean this using some sort of word to provide something. I think.

D

You should get off the track because it's not helping at all. uh The question is whether or not.

D

We will approve putting cloud boards in the building, I think correct. Yes, don't you.

G

Want to know what we're replacing it with no yeah. Well, we do so right. Yes, I my question is.

E

What's underneath the club, the shakes, have you taken them off and is there a cloud board behind.

E

There is there any picture, any historic document that you can give us that tells us that before.

E

This was put with shakes that there was clobbered and corner boards, and all this.

E

Sort of stuff on this building before it was what it is now it was a store front, so it was glass.

G

Even up the siding was glass second floor. Second floor was the second floor. Was cedar shake there.

G

You go okay and the bottom was glass on the street and concrete block on the sides right. Okay, so.

E

When I think what david's trying to get to is that the history of this building doesn't go.

E

Back beyond 1920 or whatever the date is, and it doesn't have a history that says clabboard.

E

It was shake, and I apologize that you have the one odd building on the street, but you should be proud.

E

That you have the one odd building on the street. It's different, it's its own building, it's its own.

E

History, surrounded by a bunch of other buildings that are all the same, so I just I'm questioning.

E

The the change of the history of this building to change it from what it was a 1920s infill candy.

E

Store to something that's trying to look like the federal houses on either side of it that it's not.

J

So when we purchased that.

C

Slide over you have to get closer to the microphone. Please.

B

And your name again, please it goes out to the oh okay, my name's dave kozil.

J

So we look, we love portsmouth. That's why I decided to retire and move up here and we like the street.

J

We like the historic district and we were looking at property. We came across this property and the.

J

First thing we noticed the facade of 75 gates was was different than any other, any other facade on.

J

75 gates, so it stood out. So our way of thinking is, we would like to have the facade look similar. The.

J

Facades of the other homes- and I recognize that that they're, more historical and older in nature.

J

And um that's really it in a nutshell, as jeff mentioned, you know the house, you know we've put.

J

A lot of money into upgrading the insides and of the property both front and back and all we would.

J

Like to do is- and I appreciate representing the historical um history of this- of this property.

J

You know that being said, you know it sticks out from our standpoint in terms of shakes versus.

J

Collaborative forever for any other house, you know on 75 gate street we would. We would prefer to.

J

To to have the shakes uh be replaced with clapper siding yeah. That means you know. That being said,.

G

We want you know we are asking for permission to do something outside of the norm. You know we.

G

Understand that it is, you know it's probably the youngest building on the road, but when we do go.

G

You know if you do approve this and we do go ahead with it. We want to make sure that we're going.

G

Ahead and using the proper materials, regardless of whether it was originally on the property or not,.

G

We don't want to just grab something from richie or home depot and put it on the house. We want to.

G

Put something nice on okay, you're! Fine! I mean that was I mean that was a lot of research to try and.

F

Figure out it was, it was, and I appreciate that you did all of that background work for sure.

F

I'll just say: are you do you need to keep going? I was. I was just going to say that.

E

When I see the building, what stands out to me other than the protruding windows, which.

E

Is obviously very very different is that it's the only non-painted non-weathered building on.

E

The on that streetscape, so my question is: have you considered what it would look like.

E

If you kept the historic shakes, but you painted it because you can paint whatever you want, you.

E

Don't need our permission, we have yeah okay and we are, and that is an option I mean that is our.

G

That is our backup option. Okay, I mean that's, I mean regardless the prop like I said the front.

G

Of the house is going to need some serious attention uh that you know. That being said,.

G

We'd also like to give them an opportunity to present you what they'd like wait. A minute john.

B

Yes, I just would like to say that if you look at these cedar, shingles.

B

They're, not 10, 15 years old at the most these shingles are. These are not historic, shingles.

B

We're not looking at something that was done in the 40s or the 50s or the 60s. These are new.

B

Shingles that were just put on these are class c class b, which is not the best shingles, but they.

B

You know so I'm just saying this is not a historic fabric. You may happen to like wood shingles on the.

B

Front I'm just asking for, but I don't see any precedent for them being on here and I don't.

B

See that we should go back to cement blocks on the storefront again either sure they're. Still there.

B

Probably I went strapped them and went right over. I just wanted to get that out. Yes, reagan.

F

So, to finish what I was saying: yes, thank you for going through doing this. All of this research.

F

And finding great collaborators, I think quality cloudbirds are a wonderful thing to find. um I'm.

F

Not sure I don't know that I can say that it would necessarily be um inappropriate to put clabbards.

F

On the front of this building, I think that it would be very interesting to do a little bit.

F

More research and see if you can find any really early photographs or or if it has changed at all. I.

F

Mean I we have a photograph from the 80s from the portsmouth advocates, um but um you know if it was.

F

Just to see what it what it might have originally looked, it was. It was originally.

G

um The uh the second floor was pretty much what it is now: fine, so they're they're they're. If.

G

You're, asking historical about um historically they've, always been a cedar shake on the front.

F

um I guess my only comment was: if, if you want to do the clabbers, there's really no need.

F

To have scarf joints and things like that, this is you know, that's a that's a detail that really.

F

Belongs on a really old, historically historic house, I think that it could be much simpler on.

F

The front since this is a modern application of clabbirds to the house. That's all. I was.

F

Going to say is that you don't have you probably don't have to go through all of that um effort.

B

uh Martin, did I see your yes? Yes, what is this? What's this, that's a rendering what the house.

G

Will look like that's a rendering? Okay, that's a rendering of what we would like to do. This is a.

G

Rendering of what we would like to make the front of the house look like the stream that we want to.

G

Apply where we want to trim as tin, answered um the exposures. I I mean if it sounds like you.

J

Want to fit in because you want you're taking heat from the unfriendly people on gate street.

J

To uh notice just right in is that the case no, I'm kidding he's from gate street yeah.

A

It just it doesn't look as good as what you have now I mean I can't I've never seen a.

J

Presentation of a facade that didn't provide a picture of that front facade.

J

So I wish you you had given us a full picture of the facade in the package.

J

But I I think what you have here now is very acceptable. um This is less than I would say.

J

uh And you're also showing it going your rendering shows it going down the side elevations. I can't.

J

Really tell no really but we're not doing anything different to the side. I have a really bad one.

J

So I'd say you have a lot of latitude given the age of the building, but.

J

I'd reconsider this. I really would.

B

So is there, anyone in the public would like to speak about this.

B

I'm going to close this and I'm looking for a motion.

B

I'm not sure that we could. Let's have a motion, see what happened. uh You can.

B

Make the motion any way you want or not or not? I I'll make a motion to not deny.

E

This, yes, we have a motion to deny on the table. Would somebody second that motion to deny god.

D

Seems so cold? Doesn't it? I know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry I am awful. I will second that motion.

B

All right um so we're going to have to have uh a uh roll call, yeah roll call vote, I'm afraid.

F

Yeah can I comment on the discussion part here. We've been through a lot of comments on a simple.

B

Part right here can we answer this. Is the discussion part of that.

F

Yeah, okay, thank you. um Did you second or no? No david david.

B

Who's going to um defend this motion, um margo and david, mr chairman, uh in the process of.

D

Defending the motion I'll say that that any clapboard attempt at changing this building's.

D

Period in time, I think is uh completely contrary to the issues that the historic.

D

District commission is trying to promote, we aren't trying to redress or recreate history.

D

um We allow buildings and their owners to move through time in a logical fashion,.

D

In a reverse fashion is a rare occurrence, and this has no history to revert to. So I think it's an.

D

Appropriate thing, I think the appropriate siding for the upper floor of this building is shingle. It.

D

Is shingle, I I I think, that's all we need if they wanted to change the pitch of the roof so that it.

D

Looked had a pitch of a 18th century building they wanted to take the the bay windows off the second.

D

Floor of the building, so it looked like an 18th century building if they wanted to put the door.

D

In the center of the facade like an 18th century building, then we could have an 18th century.

D

Conversation, but to try to redress this, I think, is wrong and I don't enjoy saying no to people.

G

So as long as we do what you a whole renovation to appeal to you and what you're is, is what.

G

I'm saying not necessarily almost word for word: yes, okay! No! No! I'm just saying I just.

G

Want clarification so as long as if we were to spend a lot more money to make it look.

G

Older that'd be fine, I it'd be it would change the conversation okay, but to take this thing.

D

And clarification it might be like putting. This is a board and a volkswagen and we're going to vote.

B

On no, no, this is an opinion here he's defending his motion. So now we have to vote on this motion.

B

And then, who knows? John reagan would like to speak to the motion. I is that okay, yes, thank you.

F

I appreciate the motion. um I just am hoping that the applicant doesn't see this as a full stop.

F

To his project, there are more things I think in other ways you can. You can go forward with us to.

F

Hopefully, appease or hopefully get to whatever.

F

Finish is is uh something that you like they're, all happy.

B

Can anybody else like to speak with it? I would I I'd love to speak to I. I think that, like I said.

J

There's latitude towards this and the idea that um we're going to tell you you can't do this.

J

I don't think is in the proper spirit of of what this board represents. um We should have reasons.

J

Why we're denying you- and it sounds like that? You know we're denying you, because we feel that we.

J

Know better than you, and so I'm going to vote uh no to this motion, because I think that this is why.

J

I sit on this board to uh to make sure it's people don't decide what other people should. uh You know.

J

That that people's property rights are respected and uh protected, so thank you so much are we still.

B

In are we still, since you made the motion, you have to defend it with our criteria or finding some.

E

Facts um I'm looking at the finding as a fact it's a little bit difficult because it's not often that.

E

We we go with a denial and the reason I made the motion is because I wasn't hearing.

E

The applicant come back with any suggestion of different ways that they would want to do it or.

E

Could we come back and you know present you with something else and nobody was making a motion.

E

In the positive, so I moved ahead, I I feel, as david suggested, that um we are supposed.

E

To preserve the integrity of the district, this building is not a 1700s or 1800s building. It is a.

E

1900S 19 10 20, building 1933 33.. If we are to preserve the integrity of the district.

E

We have to also look at the anomalies and preserve the anomalies, because.

E

This building from 1933 50 years from now 100 years from now, is going to be as valued.

E

By those people in the future, as we value the building to the left and to the right today,.

E

And it makes up the fabric and the character of the district to change it to something completely.

E

Different from what it is.

E

To me is against the what the historic district is about, so I don't believe that approving.

E

This specific request to change to clabbards and to put on corner boards.

E

Is in keeping with preserving the integrity of the district, and that is why I'm.

E

Making a suggestion that we're deniers.

B

Good so dan.

A

So I voted to support the denial. Is it a yes or no in favor? Yes, I'm in favor, okay, dan may I make.

B

A comment as well: uh no at this point you can't because the motion's been made. I'm sorry, uh martin.

B

Are you supporting this motion? I am not supporting this motion. I.

J

I feel, like we too harshly jump to a conclusion, and I don't like the tone.

J

Of how we are shutting down somebody else's somebody's, I think a good argument's been made.

J

um And no I'm not supporting this at all: okay reagan, yes, okay and I'm going to vote no okay,.

B

There he is yes and there's four there and the chair votes. No, so uh it's four to three we're.

B

Denying your application to put on the wood siding at this particular, unless, of course, we decided to.

G

Spend a lot more money and make it look like 18th century. um I don't think that that is what.

B

The board is saying somebody just suggested that, and I don't think we want to see um a building.

B

Made artificial artificially into a 18th century building either. I think if you had listened.

B

To some of the comments that you might be able to just get away with doing your improvements to the.

B

First story and then maintaining the shingles on the second story, uh as um they appear to have been.

B

Appropriate at the time to the second story, I believe that's what I heard does that sound.

B

About right, so that would mean that it's only the first story that you have to think about.

B

So that's where we're sitting right now, we're not telling you you have to.

B

Come back and with a hundred thousand dollar, you know improvement to the front here. We're.

B

Not saying that, thank you for your time and consideration. Okay, you're welcome.

B

Okay, well, sorry, if I stepped on any toes, this must be a little contentious.

B

Okay, so request to postpone.

F

Oh, we didn't vote on that at the beginning we should probably yeah. This is the petition of.

B

Nearby family, revocable trust for property located yet again at 189 gate street.

B

Am I misreading all of these things? No, that's a request to postpone it. What's that you're.

A

Postponing now, maybe no we do yeah. That's was postponed on the uh yeah at the beginning. Okay,.

H

For the next one he didn't postpone it. It was postponed.

H

On the agenda that I had understood, but we just haven't voted on the post.

A

B

I think I should read this yes, okay, okay,.

B

Is requested to allow new construction to an existing structure construct new addition.

B

To an existing garage as per plans on file in the planning department, said, property is shown.

B

On assessor map, 103 is lot, 6 lies within general, residence b and historic districts.

B

Okay, is there a motion to postpone some moves? Second,.

B

Second, okay, all those in favor aye, aye, we're postponing to next month, yeah, okay,.

B

Now we have petition of sherry a homes and yvonne p goldsberry owners for property located at 45.

B

Richmond street, wherein permission is requested to allow the demolition of the existing garage.

B

And rear one-story addition on the existing home new construction to an existing structure.

B

Construct a two-story rear edition, a one-story side edition and a dormer addition and the.

B

Construction of a new detached garage and screen house, as per plans on file in the planning.

B

Department said property is shown on assessor map 108 as lot 18 lies within the mixed research.

B

Office and historic districts and who here's to present this and good evening and whitney again.

H

um This this proposal, as you see here, was approved in march 10th of 2021, and I I missed the deadline.

H

For my letter to ask for an extension, we have a builder lined up for march of 2023 and.

H

It just sort of fell through the crack, so I will re-present here very quickly and.

H

The first sheet here, so this is just an extension no we're asking for. I forgot to.

H

Put my letter in to ask for the extension and I missed the deadline, so the basically the okay.

H

uh Approval has expired as of march 10th, um and so it's an extension, but in heart it's an extension.

H

But because the actual date expired, I should have done this in february. um I need to re-present.

H

And get this approval once again, so before you begin in, are there any changes.

H

Absolutely no changes, okay, just so that we're not listening for anything. In particular, nope no have.

D

There been any changes in the neighborhood. Have there been any changes to the butters uh nope.

D

So the circumstances the playing field basically is exactly the same. It's just taking forever.

H

To get builders lined up, and then I let this one fall through the cracks, I'm usually pretty good at.

H

Getting my letters in so basically, it's a new englander site plan is fairly explanatory.

H

We're replacing windows adding bringing the at front entry back to the two-door entry with a.

H

Transom light above um reorienting the stairs so you're right now the stairs just go right.

H

Down into the street and they're really steep and the the site grade, you know climbs the hill.

H

So, by putting the stairs off to the side, I have few of them and we're able to have.

H

A landing instead of just a free-fall set of stairs on this, you can see the existing garage.

H

We're going to be taking that down and doing a single bay garage with an l extension.

H

Again on this two of eight um there's, a bump out one story bump out on the right side.

H

uh With a new bulkhead that'll be new foundation in that location.

H

The garage just has a single door, a couple lights and single window or light above.

H

On the east or right side elevation, you can see.

H

The dormer is going to have two sets of casement windows.

H

I'm going to change that triple window. That's on the first floor on the left side, just to a couple.

H

Of double hungs, with a heavy mullion between we're shifting the window on the right side.

H

And then adding two awning windows for light. That's in the kitchen area.

H

To the left of that, you can see the two-story addition with the one-story protruding. It's partly.

H

Sort of a sun space and partly a porch, open, porch um and over you can see the photo of the existing.

H

One story that we'll be tearing down on the upper right hand, side.

H

The garage is sort of going to be in two, you know on the driveway side and then it's going to go up.

H

Several steps, um the little l of the garage goes up. Several steps to you know take into.

H

Consideration there's a big grade change and if we go back to the site plan, the stone wall.

H

I'm kind of raising the grade a bit along the edge of the house with a stone wall along the along the.

H

Driveway, so that sort of l of the garage is going to be half a level above.

H

The um from the main level of the garage starting to lose my voice, okay, the rear elevation.

H

um We're going to be matching the pitch and form of the existing new englander. With this.

H

Two-Story addition and then you can see the rear elevation of that porch looking through into the.

H

Sunroom beyond.

A

uh Careful ann yeah, yeah I'll turn that the left side elevation um we're going to be.

H

Adding those three j windows sort of in the stairway to let some light into that side.

H

Replacing um the two windows are existing there.

H

And then you can see the addition, some double hugs and a small awning window.

H

In a bathroom on that side that k window I'm going to keep the corner board to give a sense of.

H

The old and the new, but that's all in the same plane.

H

Final page shows more detailed elevation of the garage where it steps up or the wall.

H

And then there's a greenhouse, that's going to be attached at that upper yard level for the garage.

H

On the east right side, a row of some transom awnings and.

H

The rear, elevation, single double hung and another one of the l awnings.

H

So that's pretty much it. I've got some other.

H

Window details and the porch porch railing detail window schedules.

H

And the last page shows an example not exactly of what we're looking at for the greenhouse.

H

Any questions thanks.

E

The only question I had in is the greenhouse details. Were you.

E

Intending to come back with those later, yes, I think that was one of.

H

The stipulations yeah, where we have a company that we're using but yeah.

B

B

Are there any comments have have there been any comments from the neighbors.

B

um Concerning the greenhouse uh nope, obviously there's no one here, nope, it was approved with.

B

The public hearing approved yep. We had no opposition when we first brought it through.

A

Public yeah in public is there anyone out there in the public? That would like to make a comment.

B

About this I had a question for anne yes right on sheet: 508, no um okay! I see the outline of a stair.

A

Interior stair uh does that conform to code, or is it too tall for five looks like pretty tall.

A

Without um landing, five, oh the on that west side elevation, yes, no, the rise run is is fine on that.

H

It is yeah yep, seven and a half, as I recall, yep. No. I just meant the number of risers. Oh the.

H

Stair on the inside of the house yeah: well, it's an existing stair that we're not going to be changing.

A

It's actually a fairly comfortable stair, but um no, I just that's more a reference thing. I.

H

Should probably get rid of that for hdc, but for me to if it wasn't you, it would not conform to.

A

Court though, it would not come forward to code like most stairways in the south end.

H

Yeah definitely don't touch it, then no yeah, okay, okay! So there's nobody in the public. So.

B

uh Would somebody like to make a motion I'll move that we approve this um as presented with.

F

The stipulation that what that they come back with the greenhouse plans um for admin, approval.

J

Second, that um I don't remember what the purpose, what our findings the facts were before, but.

F

uh Certainly, the conservation and enhancement of property values and it's consistent with the.

F

Special and defining character surrounding properties, it's a design that fits in well.

B

Okay, so all those uh approved yes say: hi all right and those against I'm going to vote.

D

Against I did before I want to be consistent, very good okay, so you have your approval.

B

Petition of courtyard condominium association owner property located at 50 daniel street.

B

Wherein permission is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure.

B

Several exterior modifications, as for plans on file in the planning department, said property.

B

Is shown on assessor map 106 as lot 17 lies within the character district, 4, downtown overlay.

B

And historic districts and who is presenting this jeff whitmore for courtyard condominiums.

B

All right, what do you got? um We uh have a front facade that has several issues. We have a lot of.

I

Rot, we have a lot of water infiltration. We just have a significant amount of degradation on the.

I

Whole front facade, we had to also do something similar on the alley side, facade, probably about.

I

Four years ago- and so that was more utilitarian because we were required to use hardy plank.

I

Due to the close proximity to the building next door, our plan here is to use a more appropriate.

I

Cloud board on the front cedar and then re-trim corner boards freezes trim around windows.

I

Crowns the crowns are all split and and pretty much broken away, replace the copper roof.

I

The brake roof that sits above the storefront and then re-re-trim the.

I

Storefront windows as well.

B

Did I just ask you: is this the building that was burnt severely.

I

No, no it's next door so facing it to the left. Okay,.

B

um So questions comments about this project.

A

What are you doing with the uh sign bracket sign bracket, we're going to maintain or.

I

Restore and put back up in the place that it resides now likewise, with the barn style.

I

Lights that hang over the sidewalk, those are going to be removed or restored and replaced.

B

It's like there's not too many changes that we have to.

E

Argue about here most of this replacement in time yeah. Most of it is any other comments.

B

So the trim would all be the same size apparently corner boards same.

I

Dimensional size, yes, we'll use five quarter, trim on windows and on corner boards to make.

I

Sure that it protrudes enough on the siding itself, we'll use historic sills on the windows.

I

My only question I was asked by some of the owners today. I don't know if anybody on the commission.

I

Has looked at the windows that are there, but they're, actually, vinyl replacement windows.

I

And some of them need replacement they've. You know decayed to the point where they're not functioning.

I

Properly- and I don't know what your inclination is on- that it doesn't show on the application.

I

So I don't know if that's a separate application, I'm afraid you'd have to a separate application.

I

Again, it just came up, so I just thought I'd mention it just to see if there was any discussion.

A

Yeah green mountain yeah, it would be nice to see those replaced. You know something.

B

A quality replacement window like green mountain or something like that they're very good windows.

B

They have windows that are wood on the outside that can be painted. Yes, but um that would.

B

Definitely be a separate application. So could I just ask a question, while I'm here um in that.

I

Case is it uh preferred or is it a mandate that it has to be a wood window, um preferred yeah? It's.

I

Just preferred okay, because I'm just noticing clad across the street on the project. That's going up.

I

Right now, yeah, that's a brand new again, I'm not it's a brand new building. I think they're classic.

F

There's a variety but in our guidelines do um ask for wood windows, okay, good to know just so.

I

We can make sure we're coming back with the correct application. Are we are we at all? Can.

D

Do you know that the sizes of the windows? Well, this is an old building, it doesn't.

D

Really come off that way? No, um I don't know this for a fact, but I believe that.

D

Celia thaxter, uh this was her parents house, I believe- or at least she was born here.

A

There's a plaque there's a plaque on them, probably right about that yeah. You probably are, and.

D

You know in in general, I'd say the building looks like it's from the 18.

D

10 18 15 sort of moment, uh which makes it a survivor thinking the fires and whatnot. um I just.

D

I'm sitting here listening to your application, where you're going to redoing all of this stuff.

D

And everything's going to get attended to, and yet nowhere in this does it improve my words.

D

The historic nature or presence of the building on the street in our fine city and.

D

And I I wonder honestly sitting here if there was a six over six sash on the third floor of.

D

The building when it was built, it seems like an awkward federal facade without even getting.

D

Into how misappropriated the spaces on the first floor are and how dated and tacky the.

D

Full window facades are- and I wonder if this isn't a time to do a little rethinking and maybe.

D

Shifting the the building's participation in our community a little bit, I'm not really excited by.

A

If we're going to replace every damn thing on the building, why have it looked like this.

D

I think if you look at the proportions of the windows that I might think.

B

That the second story windows are the problem that they were shrunk down, I agree and that they were.

B

Much larger because there's an abnormal amount of space between the second and third story, windows.

B

But um just my question I guess in large is: is we missing an opportunity just walking away? This is.

D

Like leaving three men on base, you know, but we're not missing the opportunity. We can't necessarily.

F

Ask them to change their design. This is what they're bringing to us. What you can do is say no.

D

It's a way, but some people don't like doing that, because it's too heavy, I think it's bad. I mean.

B

This doesn't really meet our review criteria. Sure it's not inappropriate. It's not inappropriate what.

F

You're doing so sorry to interrupt, but could I speak to the windows a little bit. I mean part.

I

Of the problem with those windows is the fact that they're vinyl replacement windows so automatically.

I

The size has shrunk, so it proportionately scale it's all wrong. It doesn't mean that the window.

I

Wasn't you know a taller grander window back when it was originally built yeah, but the fact of the.

I

Matter if those windows, even in the proportions that they are now if they were full-size.

I

Wood sash windows they'd be significantly better looking if you will and more from my standpoint.

I

A little more historically um appropriate. I understand what you're saying mr adams, but.

I

You know at some point, you know, there's a limited amount. The people in the building want to do right.

I

By the by the city and make sure that the building looks great and get it as close to historically.

I

Appropriate as we possibly can without recreating the wheel again.

I

And just essentially rebuilding the building.

B

Oh, I'm sorry, martin, uh I can do your site. I can accept everything.

J

As a replacement kind, except for the covered brick with paneling at the base,.

J

What are you intending? The intent there was, uh the brick is, is in uh rough condition,.

I

It was a facade and again I'll defer to you, you people for sure, but the plan was to panelize. It.

I

To make it a little more historically appropriate, it would be wood panels framed wood panel.

I

In the center with the molding around each panel, so it would have some some real.

I

Oomph to it and a little more historically inclined than the brick, the brick is harkens.

I

Back to early 19, you know the early 20th century to me. Well, I you know the brick is a natural.

J

Material and it's you know, it's you'd be covering it up and I, like I said I could support everything.

J

Except that, maybe we just pull that portion out, I you know I just uh wow, I okay. This is yeah.

B

These are bigger. I would have liked to have seen more photographs of actual.

J

Photographs of what's there to make a decent judgment, you can do that.

I

Yeah this down to follow the window layout and to bring panels down that would follow the casing.

I

And have a frame around it and, as I said, it would be. A wood panel you'd still see.

I

The bottom of the brick, because you need that for code, you can't bring the paneling all the way to.

I

The sidewalk, I just think you got to bring the goods. Oh, you can't.

A

Oh yes, yeah just looking at the the size of the individual windows on the first floor, I don't know.

A

How you would really make the panels look good, because they're, I think it would enhance the size.

A

The difference in the size of the windows that are there they're, not all equal, so I I would leave the.

A

The paneling off as well! That's fine! If that's, if that's the inclination, that's that's fine!.

B

uh Excuse me, but if you would like to approach the people, we have something to show you here.

B

This is the the the amazing you know: technology uh person, I'm not a technology person. I looked up.

F

So there's a historic photo of the building and just to go back to the windows. So the.

F

Second, floor windows were much bigger and the third floor windows were much shorter, yeah and.

I

They're, probably what they are now, um possibly yeah, so the second floor windows are bigger, yeah.

I

Right right now, they're about 48, inches tall and the lowers are about uh four foot. Six yeah.

F

So probably you I mean this photograph and there might be more at the ethernet.

I

You could even zoom in and get a better quality and just look at the storefront. There.

I

Because it might help inform a little bit of the design too yeah again, we wanted to clean up the.

I

Storefront because it's a mishmash of everything, so we wanted to clean that up. Yeah! That's that's!.

I

Really the intention yeah good intention of bounds. Yes, but it's just again, I don't.

F

I don't see anything that you're asking for as to being inappropriate. It's obviously all mostly.

F

Replacement in kind, but if you want to go further there are you could no? No. I appreciate that. Thank.

I

You- and the comment I would make to that uh reagan- is that the header most likely on.

A

The second floor, the head or the window, is most likely in the same position. If you compare it to.

A

The building next door, but the sew was definitely lower, which increased the height of the window.

A

Well, yeah, they might have brought the cell up in the second floor to and if you look at the.

I

Interiors they've definitely modified them, since you know over time the way, the way the.

I

Places are being used the way the houses are being used. Well, anyways. This picture is available.

I

Thank you welcome, so any other comments or questions, or um did I do the public yet.

B

No, no okay is anyone in the public would like to speak to this proposal.

B

Nope: okay, I'm going to close the public hearing, look for a motion.

J

Can I can, I add, a stipulation to any emotion to approve, because I would like to make a.

B

Motion with this stipulation, I could do that. Why not do that.

A

Okay, I'm motioned to approve with the stipulation that you actually come to.

J

Show us the um what you actually intend to do with that base absolutely uh and just give us the.

J

Give us the goods give us the details, and, and uh I I think that would satisfy me and hopefully.

J

The rest of the board, and that could be under our administrative approval and it's you know.

B

Relatively simple: it's not a whole application again, not a problem, yeah I'll. Second, that all.

B

Right, so uh all those in favor do I need to give money? Oh yeah, I'm sorry. You do actually right.

J

It preserves the integer integrity of the district and is consistent with the special defining.

J

Characters of the surrounding properties that works. Okay, now all those in favor say aye aye, aye,.

B

Any against opposed. I have one opposed, um so there you go. Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you.

B

Okay, so um unless we have anything else to talk about, let's say we have a motion to adjourn dunkin.

A

Donuts just kidding: um do you really want to talk about it? You know I'll make a motion to adjourn a.

B

Second, okay, all right! Okay! Is there time to talk about bruno? Did everybody vote on favorites yeah.