City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Historic District Commission, 5 Oct 2022

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10.5.2022 Historic District Commission

A

It's like not all right, welcome everyone to the october 5th meeting of the historic.

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District committee, um the board's action in these matters has been deemed to be.

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Quasi-Judicial in nature, if any person believes any member of the board has.

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A conflict of interest that issue should be raised at this point or it will be deemed with.

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um I'd like to introduce our members, um we have over here recording in progress.

B

Okay, thank you very much good evening. Okay, uh martin ryan, good evening and reagan rudig vice.

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Chair good evening, my name is john wyckoff. I'm the chair, nick cracknell planning department.

A

A

Good evening margo, dory hello, david adams good evening karen buffard good evening. Welcome.

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Gift for order of business is the approval of minutes.

C

John one uh recommendation that I've passed to nick to tighten up the um matter regarding.

C

Number 224 marcy street, which was on october 14th and october september, 14th. Okay, um just a.

C

Little bit of tightening up on the clarification of rewarding alrighty so nick has that all right.

B

I have a correction for the first minutes, all right um on the public hearing on.

B

Mill street I recuse myself and for some reason I'm there recommending that it be.

B

Put off till next month so somehow that that's kind of difficult! That's because.

B

I was in the audience yeah so that somehow get mixed up all right. So did you get that nick 33.

B

Mill street yeah yeah, he wasn't there all right with those corrections. um Do they have a motion.

D

Motion to approve, as presented with those changes forthcoming it a second all right, all those in.

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Favor aye against all right. So there's the minutes and now we're on to administrative approvals.

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In the ever popular nick kraknow will take over now.

A

Yeah, why don't you do that? What do we have for postponents a lot? We, oh, my goodness,.

E

Nearly everything yeah hang on. Okay, so we have a request to postpone a petition.

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Of one reigns: avenue: llc 31 rains, avenue, llc and 203 maplewood avenue, llc owners.

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I'm not going to read the whole thing. We have a request to postpone.

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Petition of 43 homes, court owner for property located at 43 holmes, court.

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Well, you're, certainly right. We have a request to postpone chief street condominium association.

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Owner and the smith family declaration of trust, todd c smith, trustee and applicant.

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A property located at 159 state street unit 3a. We have a request to postpone.

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Petition of seacoast management, consulting llc for property, located at 3, walton alley.

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We have a request to postpone petition of pickering wharf condominium association.

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Owner for property located at 33, south mill street.

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Anymore, hiding down here, yep yep. There is.

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Under old business, we have a request to postpone a work session requested by lucky 13 properties, llc.

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Owner for property located at 361 islington street, we're in permission to allow new construction and.

A

And then what does this postpone to the november second meeting? That's another one! That's another!.

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One, this is a work session requested by 7 kph, llc owner for property located at 324, maplewood avenue.

A

So um if I could have a motion, we could get those home.

C

Before we make a motion, could we pull um item c, which is the state street which is like, isn't.

C

This one has been postponed numerous numerous numerous times. This is the one that's the.

C

Condenser up on the yes todd, it's been postponed many many many times and I'm just wondering.

C

What action, if any, is going to happen on this? Well, I've been in communication with the applicant.

E

Previous to the last request for a continuance, I believe they requested for two or three months.

E

Since june or july to now so it hasn't been continued since then, and what the applicant.

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Was attempting to do is see if they can remove the condenser or the the mini split off the side of.

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The building on the second floor and see if they could find a place for it on the ground, where the.

E

One it's replacing currently sits, and there are other mechanical devices down there on the ground.

E

Between the buildings, so I was hopeful, they were going to come back and they may still be planning.

E

To do so with a revised application that would take it off the wall, so you think that hasn't.

D

Happened yet I'd say this is the last continuance I think out of respect for for you and anybody.

E

Living there that got a notice back in february that we would re-notice this if they don't show up.

E

At the next meeting, okay, okay, very good, we'll have to remember that when it comes up next month again.

A

If it comes up as a request, if it comes up, um I will make a motion to approve the postponements.

C

As listed yes, second, okay, all those in favor, I was against now, I'm handing it over to nick.

E

All right, where was the certified local government thing on the agenda? Was it earlier or after the.

E

Admin approvals- I just don't have the agenda in front of me, um it's not after all, right! Well, why.

E

Don't we maybe talk about that for a minute, there's not a whole lot to say, but uh you.

E

Sorry I thought it was on the agenda. It's on the staff report, yeah uh that it would.

E

Be coming, I have prepared a draft application. That's this big! It's almost all appendices of.

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Required documentation that the state needs to see to demonstrate that portsmouth is eligible.

E

For listing as a certified local government community, which is part of the national historic.

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Preservation act and program; the reason we we fully qualify. I don't think there there's anything.

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We need to do other than get a vote of the city council to submit the application, which is quite.

E

It's beneficial, we don't have. We've got the ordinances, the rules of procedure, the guidelines.

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All that that's what this is, so um the idea is to submit this in november to the city council.

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And get their approval to submit it to the to the state. And if we are in fact certified as a local.

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Government under the program, we will be eligible for some funding sources for uh city and I think.

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Even non-profit properties benefit from portsmouth being designated. This gives us priority funding.

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For competitive applications for preservation related work, whether it's survey, work or brick.

E

And mortar work, it will definitely allow us to address even some of our city buildings.

A

Are you presenting this? No to the city council? I will be yeah yeah, yes and so you're. Looking for.

A

A vote from us, I think, it'd be good to get the support of the commission before I'm standing in.

E

Front of the city council that you support it, but in fairness to you, since I didn't get it to you,.

E

To today take a look at it and we'll talk about it on the 2nd of november, because I'm not going.

E

To be in front of the council before then, does that sound reasonable? That sounds reasonable? I.

E

Don't know sue dairy, are you in the audience? Did you want to say something you? You know.

F

I didn't know I was going to speak, you don't have to well, that's all right. I do um I'm so.

F

Starry co-chair of the cemetery committee. um I brought this to nick back in the day six months.

F

Ago, probably and we've been working on it, um I need the historic district to be well. Not me.

F

Personally, but the cemetery committee and the city needs us to be a certified local government and as.

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Nick pointed out, it opens the door for a lot of things for the city, not just as he mentioned, but.

F

Also for the cemeteries, we're right in the middle of trying to preservation and restoration in all.

F

The cemeteries there are seven of them and I came across in my research to find out what.

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Funds were out there. I came across this program, we have applied to the moose plate and we will.

F

Be applying to the l chip, but this is a totally different project for us. This would open up the.

F

Availability of to have professional grant writers when we go to apply for um grants, it moves us up.

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The list also, because we've been acknowledged as a community that appreciates historic districts.

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And the rules and regulations that go along with it, so I really want to thank nick he's, put a lot.

F

Of time in it with the intern this summer, so I would just encourage you all to read it. It's it's.

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Beneficial both the historic district and for the cemetery. So thank you for your interest in it and.

F

Hopefully, I think the city will pass it without any problem. Thank you, you're welcome. Thank you.

E

And it is a quick read because the narrative is pretty thin so far, I'd like to work on a cover.

E

Letter for the for the mayor and the city council, so I, when I get that drafted I'll, circulate that.

E

um Okay, are we good on that? Okay, so, on the admin approvals there were nine listed on the agenda.

E

um I'd start by saying: 11 walden is still not, hopefully there's nobody here from 11.

E

Walden is there good um they've asked for a continuance at the board of adjustment to.

E

Deal with the location, so I would recommend we postpone this to the next meeting in november.

E

Because they don't have authorization to even be where they're putting it without the variance.

E

um And david, I'm still working with them on an alternative location. It was that.

G

You know it's a rumor on the street, it just seemed like it was a place. We could go yep.

E

Okay, uh so that leaves us with two through nine and what I I'd recommend waiting here.

E

If anybody's got any conflicts or not wanting to participate because you're in a butter, I would.

E

Do items two three five, six and nine, which are the I think the simpler applications.

E

I think 553 islington street hopefully has someone in the audience to do a presentation.

E

Yes, it's a little more complicated. I think there are 11 or 12 uh modifications being.

E

Made to that previously approved project on a'slington, uh I think items seven and eight.

E

um Okay, you know, might need a little discussion, uh 93 pleasant being uh the the project. Downtown is.

A

There anybody that needs to recuse themselves from two through nine, any of them all right. Okay, let's.

A

Go: let's go with uh 621 islington street units d and e, which is two and three they are adding.

E

Metal storm doors uh pretty straightforward to me, but maybe I missed something foreign.

E

E

Okay, all right, we can come back if somebody thinks that so 55 gates would be the next one.

E

Number five on my list: it is uh an anne whitney project. That's been previously approved and my.

E

Impression, I don't know if and and yeah see you there uh is the request to change the window.

E

And deal with the hip roof on the uh you know, it's pretty clear on your application with the.

E

Highlights I just want to make sure that's what it is, and I don't know if anybody wants to discuss.

E

Any of this with anne but again the hip roof is on on the side. The bay is on the side, yeah.

E

What happened to 553 islington? Oh, that we're coming back? Okay, because it's more complicated.

E

Sorry, nope, I'm sorry so does anybody have any questions for anne on 55 gates in.

E

Respect to the marvin elevate being used at the dimension shown and the hip roof over the door.

E

hmm Over the the door or the bay, oh, that's a door system, yeah, sorry triple door! Yeah got it.

E

Everybody, okay, okay, so 12 south street is a mechanical uh condenser with a screen.

E

So it seemed and it's it is back a house with a screen.

E

Anybody have any nope, so 31 aldrich, being I think the last of the super simple ones is just uh as.

E

Part of the administrative approval stipulation on the approval of this project last month is.

E

That we had asked for a bracket design to support that overhang, and this is what they've provided.

E

Which, again to my eyes seemed seemed adequate, but that's for you to decide.

B

A roof anybody have any heartburn or suggestions on that. So it's good all right! Why don't you vote.

E

On those and then maybe we'll go to it and move, we approve those designated administrative approvals.

B

Second, all those in favor aye against all right all right. So let's go back to 553 islington as the.

E

Applicants come forward, I believe I counted 11 12, maybe 13 changes from the chimney. Dormer windows.

E

There are full screens- and I I didn't see, a stipulation in the approval for.

E

The half screen, even though that's generally always what we're seeking.

E

um But there are other changes here in relation to the doors. Railings trim a lot a lot of little.

E

Shifts and modifications so I'll pull it up on the screen. If you want to walk through.

E

um With your name and uh my name is tim brochu, I'm the principal of audra architecture, llc, the.

H

Architect for the project, I also have larry johnson the contractor here. If there's any.

H

Specific questions that he can help with, um so I just would wonder why you would.

A

Put simulated divided light windows which are more expensive and then cover them over with a.

A

Complete full screen black screen, so from any angle, besides head-on, you can't see anything.

H

um That there was no discussion of screens that I remember from our our original approvals or.

H

Anything so we weren't aware of of that as a requirement as an architect. Why would you do that.

H

um It was just the way they ordered the windows.

A

Okay, so keep going.

H

um So, just back up so these this is in response to a compliance inspection um from the city for.

H

Our final site plan approve all the buildings is essentially substantially complete at this point,.

H

um And so I've just gone down through item by item and give it some responses. um So, first of all,.

H

There was an iron rod, a wrought iron fence out front at the time of the inspection that.

H

Wasn't completed yet it has now been completed, as you can see in the photos. It looks really nice.

H

Okay, um it does look good, the next item, a chimney removed, so the existing.

H

Building had there were two chimneys around kind of the center corridor.

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um And the one on the right had at some point been cut down and capped, basically to the ridge of the.

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Roof which you can see in the top left, photo there when they got in and opened everything.

H

Up on the inside, they found that that chimney was in really bad shape. You can see a picture.

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On the right there of the some holes in the brick and some pretty deteriorated, so they.

H

Took that whole chimney down down to the basement and removed it, and you can see the photos on the.

H

Bottom now with that chimney removed, so that's what was done, um I'm not sure what else there is.

H

To do about that at this point, but did you take it down to the basement? I believe so? Yes, he did.

A

Yeah, so was that part of the approval, the double chimneys weren't there, two chimneys shown on the.

E

Approved plan: that's why it's on here it was shown as it is now with one chimney at the full.

H

Chimney and then the other one capped down at the ridgeline, which is again with the existence. Okay,.

E

So that's where I was confused looking at this, if, if the approved plans here at the htc only showed.

E

One chimney and the other chimney was capped under the roof line. This shouldn't even be on your list.

I

You can see it it's about that high yeah, it's just at the ridgeline at the ridge line, right yeah.

E

So you did have two chimneys on the previous approval, which is why it's on the list here.

E

Tonight, right there's only one left right. Well, we'll have to look at the plans. No, I think.

E

I think that's right, we've established what you see in the upper left is what was in the.

E

Approved plans and what's there now, is in the lower right, it's gone. Okay, keep going.

A

Let's do 15.

H

I'm 15.: um this is a dormer in the front of the building up on the third floor.

H

um At the time of the original approval, we didn't really. We didn't think this was original.

H

um It seemed kind of out of place with with the rest of the construction. We had some details in our drawings. um Where are you here.

H

um To the show on the screen there, but we had a detail here just to add a little bit of trim.

H

At the top to dress it up a little bit that was missed when they came through and did the.

H

Siding and so you can see how it got built there. I guess the question is: if there's, if.

H

There's, if that's okay as it is or if there's something else you want to see us, do there.

C

Was it? Was it a conscious decision to get rid of the money to to have one set of unit window.

C

Instead of two separate windows, the windows originally on the drawings, that's actually.

H

The next item, I think these windows were they were going to keep the windows that were there. um They.

H

The owner decided to go ahead and replace those windows as they were working through the project.

H

And so they they purchased this as a double window. There instead of two separate windows, so so they.

E

Removed the stud pocket intentionally- oh yeah, because there must have been two or three or more.

E

Two by fours between those two windows, I think so yeah weights, maybe a head weight, yeah two yeah.

A

Okay, yeah. I think we should just keep going and then come back. We'll come back to the.

A

Okay, discussions.

H

um 16 actually you're ahead of me nick. I think I'm sorry, I'm sorry. This looks different, but.

H

um The next item I had was 16 dormer windows changed to two over one light and reduced in size.

H

um I just mentioned that that originally they were existing to remain, but they decided to.

H

um To replace them, so it's tied in with the previous item. I think.

H

um Number 17 uh five windows on the main structure change to two over two light.

H

These were the front windows on the building, which were originally these six over six.

H

um Harvey white replacement windows um originally when we got the project to prove the htc actually.

H

Was interested in having us replace those to be the two over two windows which we're.

H

Doing around the rest of the building at that time, the owner wasn't ready to commit to doing.

H

That but he did during the construction, decide to replace those and we made them the two over.

H

Two similar to the rest of the building, which is, we believe, was more historically accurate.

H

um And then the full screen is installed. You've asked that already.

E

Can I just ask you one question on that, because I haven't had a chance to look at it uh in depth.

E

Were full screens asked for or shown in the specs that you provided the commission? I don't believe.

H

So I went, I went back through the drawings that we had submitted and I didn't see a reference of.

H

Screens one way or the other, so I mean sometimes people come in and don't either have that answer.

E

Yet- or they don't intend to put screens on because for their climate, controlled rooms and they've got.

E

Simulated divide, light windows, so it's appropriate you're here, even if it's not stipulated because.

E

It wasn't included in your most likely in your application that you would put a full screen on.

E

The on the window, so it will keep going nick. I was just going to suggest I I think you've got.

A

All of these audio, I mean you have all of these recordings right, oh yeah, I don't know that we.

E

Need I I don't want to rely on oral testimony. I could come in and listen to the reading. If you.

A

Thought that that was some, let's see where we get here. In the conversation, I have a quick question.

I

On these windows, though yeah um the approved drawings show that they're the six over six are.

I

Remaining but I remember having the conversation about having to have them, be tempered glass.

I

Maybe because they were so low yeah, but maybe that was why so there was at one point: there was.

H

A separate application application we made where they had ordered smaller windows because they were.

H

Because some of these are down like a foot from the floor, so they wanted to get some some shorter.

H

Windows so that they could get more sail height on them that was denied by the htc. They were.

E

Installed not just ordered, they were yes yeah, so they reordered them and got the the larger windows.

J

That were originally specified, which you see on the front now that answer your question yeah, I was.

I

Just trying to remember remember exactly what the yeah the course of events was good um good memory.

H

Okay, the next one, um the second floor, deck column, does not match or align with the column below.

H

um So I think, there's two issues here: one is the original it's hard to see in the photo there, but.

H

The original deck was a little bit wider, so it actually overlapped with those eve returns.

H

um And so when they rebuilt it, they pulled it in a little bit so that the eve returns so that.

H

The deck sits inside of the eve return, so we think it actually looks a little better. That.

H

Way and it worked out structurally for them to align the column where they did.

H

um And then I think, there's a question about the detailing on the drawings I had a general note.

H

About the the trim work on that deck, that upper deck column uh matching the trim work down below.

H

On the existing column, which you can see on the um on the the yellow column there, um you can see.

H

On the bottom right here that the trim that got put on it, it did get kind of a little capital.

H

Trim, it's not quite as it's not an exact match to what's down below, but it's it. The column ended up.

H

Being thinner too, so the overall, the column is not quite the same as the one down below.

H

H

um The ground level deck door changed to a nine light. um They actually just kept the door that.

H

Was there in this location, they didn't end up replacing the door, which is something we had.

H

um Had shown on the drawings we had submitted originally, um so this one they've cut that door.

H

They repainted it. You can see the difference in the doors on the left and the right.

H

The next item- the ground level, deck railings. uh Originally the drawings- had shown a railing.

H

Being added on the side of this little side deck, there was a fence there before you.

H

Can see the grade drop, there is only about 16 or 17 inches and so.

H

The railing wasn't needed and they decided not to just not to add that railing. There.

H

On the side edition, so this, if you remember the overall look of the building, there's the.

H

Main original historic building and there's this this little.

H

um Second, one story: building on the side of it that is attached to the original building.

H

The comment here is just that the trim piece next to the door is one piece it actually. The.

H

Way they built it that trim comes in and laps over the corner board, and so they just took a.

H

Wider piece and extended it out to the corner of the building from that door trim. um That's.

H

What was being commented on here, but I don't know if that's a problem or not but open to you.

H

uh The next item um there was a boarded up basement window on the side of the building.

H

um And discussing with the villain inspector, the building inspector asked him to break that in just.

H

Because it's it was really close to gray there um and it seemed like see what the right thing to do.

B

Well, um the rest of these items um just a general note that right, but the rest of these.

H

Items are on the back of the building um facing the railroad tracks and richie lumber behind it.

H

um The first item- the low soap, roofs on the back corner. So this is the this is again that little.

H

Side edition, that's really been cobbled together over time and you can see that the roof on the.

H

Top right there has been built up in multiple iterations to try to get the drainage to work and.

H

It was never really working, and so they decided to take that roof off and rebuild it as a more simple.

H

Gable that that had a better pitch and and better drainage, you can see that in the lower right there.

H

um So that's what was done with that.

H

The next item the portico design altered this is again on the back of the building. um The original.

H

Design had shown a portico with a with a basically a flat roof similar to the front entry portico.

H

um When they redid the roof on that little side piece, they changed the design to uh more of a.

H

Shallow gable, similar to the pitch of the roof up above into the the pitch of that of that gable.

H

um That they added on the side of the other side piece and there's a note. The window above.

H

The portico was moved further up again. This there's actually a change in height between.

H

The two portions of the building there, um a change in floor height inside the building and so that.

H

Window was raised up to basically a line provide a better sill height in that side of the building.

H

The deck being omitted here, we had originally had a bulkhead back in that corner. That was.

H

Proposed for that corner that once we got into the the foundation, we realized it wasn't going.

H

To work there and we moved it over to the other side, which was something that we got.

H

Approved through a site plan amendment, and so this side, deck had originally had a more.

H

Convoluted layout, because of that, because we had to get around the bulkhead and so now that.

H

With the bulkhead's gone, we've simplified that it just comes out to a landing and a few steps down.

H

H

Applicant to provide evidence, anderson, 400 series windows were installed. I believe they've submitted that information.

H

um Another note about the: I think this is duplicate.

H

But the deck reduced in size. I think I've addressed that already.

H

And then the last one, a small window next to the deck door omitted. So this is up on.

H

That third floor, where the deck is there was a little again vinyl window. That seems like.

H

It was added at some point that didn't seem to have any historical value. It's probably.

H

Better without it, they had decided to remove that when they redid the work up there of the deck. So.

H

um Those are the items that we had to respond to that's quite a few items, so I hope everyone.

A

uh Made a little list or something would somebody like to start off at any discussion.

A

Martin sure um this is the most items. I've ever seen come back to this board that were.

D

Not in alignment with what was approved, um it's almost like a question of what is what good.

D

Is this board if, if you're not going to follow the approvals, um I would, I would say, come back.

D

To us with a list of what you're prepared to make good one, that would be my recommendation.

D

um I don't want to sit here and yeah and start piecing through this. It's a it's a lot. We could do.

A

That, though, we could look at each individual item and such I don't know um reagan, what do you think.

I

I mean most of these changes. I don't have an issue with you know the windows. I remember at.

I

Saying, oh, we hope that you do come back and replace these front windows because we don't.

I

Like the look of the vinyl windows on the front on the facade, so you know that's an improvement. The.

I

Half screens are kind of on us. um We are the ones who who have to stipulate that each time I mean.

I

Because. Because I know that when you order a window, the the default is a full screen.

I

um And at the same time, because we didn't know that it was going to go, these new windows were.

I

Going on the facade, we didn't probably pay as much attention as we should have on that.

I

um I mean generally most of these changes. I I think are fine.

I

In the grand scheme of things, um but it again it's it's, you know we're dealing with sort of like well.

I

I

The procedure that we all have to follow, or else you know why- why are we here so.

A

um Nothing in particular shoots out at you. No, I mean I don't like the composite deck rail, but.

I

We approved that so you know I can't understand. That's so if you don't mind nope go ahead, I mean.

A

Before I go to the left-hand side again, I think overall, the building's 100 better. um It is amazing.

B

That so many changes just went ahead with help much thought and had to come back again. But.

B

But most of those changes I think, were for the good and are minor, so I have no huge problems.

B

So over here, um thank you.

B

um Yeah, I'm a little disappointed just you know so many 32 items a lot.

B

But as commissioner rudyck said, you know we did to prove some of this, and some of this was unexpected.

B

um The only one that really jumps out at me is the the door, the windows and the dormer that just that didn't that yeah.

K

Yeah, so I I definitely have a problem with the wind, the dormer, the way it was constructed, the.

C

Fact that the mulling was removed and in the original drawings that were included.

C

In this package for reference, there's even some detail that was supposed to be put on and that.

C

Was just completely left off, so you went from a dormer that, admittedly, was not italianate.

C

To something that looks extremely modern so that that doesn't I can't support that at all.

C

um The chimney is concerning to me: um there's probably nothing that can be done at this point.

C

It's the just in general, the fact that, when we meet twice a month that we some of these.

C

Things could have been brought to us before just barging ahead and making it basically impossible.

C

To rectify and if the idea was ask for permission later or forgiveness later, you know that's just.

C

Really not a good way to set up your reputation in the district, um but all that aside, the other.

C

Problem, I have is the portico in the back and that this looks like a modern portugal off of.

C

I'm not sure what um it doesn't reference the style of the front of the building. It.

C

Doesn't really even look like the back of the building? It's just something completely different.

C

um And and completely redoing the the slope of the roofs in the back.

C

Again, I think, probably if you'd asked us, we probably would have been just fine with it, be because you needed it for structural reasons and.

C

That was understandable, but you know to just go ahead and make something: that's practically.

C

Impossible for us to tell you to put it back the way it was is kind of rude. My reactions.

G

Mr, mr chairman, if I may, um I don't recall it in conversation about.

G

Screens at all, so whether they're, full screens they have screens seems beyond.

G

What we had any approval on um I, the lesson on the little shed in the back, is that it was a little.

G

Teeny separate building pitched roof building on the back that had a lean to attached to it.

G

They frequently don't work out, but in the process of straightening out the roof they lost complete.

G

Track of the history of that having started out as a small, doghouse type outbuilding and then getting.

G

A shed put on it and the fenestration still fits in that story, but it now looks extraordinarily.

G

Awkward because the buildings change shape around the fenestration, because they've moved the ridge.

G

um I'm I'm the as far as the chimney's gone to to make a huge argument out of two brick of chimney.

G

That were there for me to appreciate uh and now being gone, not much of a loss except it does sort.

G

Of move that whole prospect of that chimney ever being replaced to about zero and uh I'm sorry it.

G

Had a hole in it, it just seems like I'm sorry, it just doesn't seem like much to me. I spent my life.

G

In the business and a hole in the chimney was par for the course, the dormer window, the dormer as as.

G

We've heard is more than likely not the little dog house, nor is no problem more than likely not.

G

An original feature to the building looks to me like something you can put on in the 30s, but now.

G

It doesn't look like that at all, and I think it it belies the history of the house and even its.

G

Previous history, before you showed up with your plastic materials, and I do have to say that the.

G

Loss of the wall surface, the backing pilasters and a woodwork of the that portico on the side.

G

It's remarkable how you can go from uh greek revival, portico to uh 1930s portico, just by.

G

Removing that little bit of material in the back, the profiles and color change seems like you've.

G

Taken another little bit of history, away from the building and the installation of the door to the.

G

Shop by swapping that trim over seems extremely prodigy, the kind of thing well cottagey I'll just.

G

Throw that uh I don't know, I I don't see: okay yeah, I'm not voting for this at all. I don't see.

G

How you let a project get this out of control when you know that there's a group of not angry people.

G

But people looking and worrying about the minutia of things you went through the process of routing.

G

Out a recess detail on every one of the window: casings the corner boards. uh You made an attempt.

G

At replicating the old building out of uh modern materials and worked hard at some of it, much more.

G

Than your characteristic work and then stumble so hard over these other things that just somehow.

G

Got in your way and decided it didn't matter, I'm sorry! I it's I'm going on too much karen.

B

Yeah, I I don't disagree with with uh anything already said, and I'm going to pick out a small.

B

Detail which just bothers me um and that's on the side edition the door trim and quarter board.

B

Are one piece it just looks you use composite there right? Is that composite? Okay, so is that.

H

All composite yes, it just looks to me it just I. I know it's a it's a small building and it's a.

B

Small detail, but to me I would rather have seen the corner board separate from the door trim.

A

So I've got a few comments and since you mentioned that I mean.

A

I ran into this problem before and just for waterproofing I decided to use a one wide board, a.

A

uh Say a one by ten whatever, and so what I did is I ran it over. My table saw, and I put a little kerf.

A

In there that was only a quarter of an inch deep, and I don't think anybody could really tell that.

A

It wasn't two boards. This is the sort of thing you do when you're working on an 1850s, historic.

A

Building, I too have problems with the rear portico. um For one thing, one thing that really makes it.

A

Look awkward is that the uh the gable roof just emerges from the siding and there's no pilaster.

A

uh On each side of that door coming down and by pilaster, you know what I mean, and it should.

A

Have that to look like it's actually supporting this, um this portico roof, and so it makes it look.

A

Very modern and inexpensive, you know something you might see on an inexpensive building.

A

um Yeah, I can put a roof over your door. That's cool.

A

um The dormer I'm so disappointed with that dormer because I remember we talked about that.

A

And, and were you the architect in two years ago or yes, yes and you know you made uh enough uh of.

A

A thing about it to actually point it out that you were going to replicate the uh two arches like for.

A

Lack of a better word that are part it's a sort of a wave, that's over the front door. That's part.

A

Of the front portico and um it it really seemed to you, know, help this building and and help it retain.

A

Its italian look, which is what it was, and what you know you were trying to keep it as and then.

A

um You know, we know what happened and the the dormer that's on there now it looks like one.

A

That could have been built on a garage. You know, that's a slam bam. I can build a dormer in a day.

A

And you can and that's what someone did they they it just didn't pay. Any attention didn't sit.

A

Up there and do the details that you had drawn out, so I'm disappointed in those three items. I.

A

Also, don't like the fact that you did take the columns down from the original porch on the left.

A

Hand, side and you you were supposed to replicate them up top and the columns that you replaced.

A

um The original ones with were obviously much simplified, so I'm talking about the left hand.

A

Side I mean they're very simplified. They really just have a piece of molding around the top.

A

You know some people think all you have to do is put a little two and a half inch crown.

A

Around something- and this is historical- not so I'm disappointed in four items and um that's it for me.

A

So um should we can, I say something: yes go ahead, just just.

E

um Trying to summarize at least what I'm hearing and obviously I've sat through the previous.

E

Meetings with with this project, you know I agree with whoever said it here for what it's worth.

E

This tired and neglected italian ape building has experienced a real good set of improvements. Yeah.

E

Through this project- and I I think, replacing those windows you're hearing from everybody.

E

Probably, but certainly some people have said it was a huge improvement in leaving the.

E

I guess they were vinyl replacement windows, I'm not sure, but they weren't good windows that were.

E

In the front of the building uh I I'd like to point out. You know you guys tried to ditch the.

E

Iron fence, uh halfway through the process and that that didn't work and you've done a great.

E

Job putting it back where you originally said it would be, uh so I think everybody here would agree.

E

Retaining and restoration of that iron fence is really important.

E

Not only for this property, but the city, these are a a rare, a rare thing. Artifact.

E

To still have in many of our communities these, these old iron fences, railings.

E

um I and I feel like lastly, on the positive side from the street side, there was a lot of.

E

Conversation here, especially from john about the importance of that little building uh and.

E

How it presents itself to islington street and what its historic use has been and it it seems.

E

To my eyes, like he did a good job in having it on the front side, still tell the story of.

E

uh That it was independent from what it's now attached to. So it sounds like the the down.

E

The negative side of the equation, or the balance sheet is really in no specific order. The screens.

E

The dormer and, to a much lesser degree I think, for most people the chimney removal without permission.

E

um So I would just suggest people think about, since the the screens were not most likely and.

E

No one's told us from the applicant side that they did ask for a full screen and.

E

Nobody objected, I don't think screens were part of the presentation, so they weren't approved and they.

E

Weren't disapproved they just weren't there. I mean you can't add a garage uh later because you know.

E

If you didn't get denied for a garage, you didn't show um what about the idea of not having screens.

E

On the front facing facade of the windows that weren't even approved so at least on islington.

E

Street there are no screens, and all of those rooms have a side window if they needed to open a window.

E

And get some ventilation it. It certainly would look better from islington street if it had no.

E

Screens on the front, and maybe we would and then last thing to think about is maybe they come back.

E

For administrative approval, I think you got, I think, what I'm hearing is. You need to take.

E

Another whack at that dormer uh and bring it more back to this or something better.

E

uh In order to get approval for whatever that final design, is I that's what I'm hearing I'm.

E

Just trying to be a sounding board and and push this thing to the next level, I I would say that.

A

um Most everyone mentioned the dormer okay, a few of us mentioned the back portico.

A

um I think that most of us we're willing to accept the missing two brick chimney. I'm not.

A

Sure, but that's the feeling that I got from everyone. um I had a couple personal comments.

A

um You know about the left-hand side there, but um chris john, if it makes you feel any better. The.

I

The original first floor post is still there.

G

It is on the side porch, yes of the house, it's the replacement of the deck and that post. um I.

A

See a deck column here. What's that? Oh that's! The second floor, that's the second floor and then.

A

Wow, so I don't know if that makes you feel any better about it, but it does make me feel better.

A

So I'm very sorry I I I commented on something that um you hadn't done so you restored that.

A

Original uh first floor column: yes, sorry, the original first floor column. Why didn't you stop.

B

Me if the comment, I believe the comment from the inspection was that I, the note on here is.

H

It's basically yeah just said second floor column, the match, first floor column, and it's not quite.

H

The same I mean, as david might know, you could come down about six inches on that second floor column,.

A

And wrap that again with some kind of astragal or half round molding, you know what I'm talking.

A

About dave, indeed, a necking, and that would make it look like there's a capital yeah more like.

A

A proper capital on a column because you very rarely see columns with just a top. You know.

B

Thank you so well, so so [ __ ]. Can we um sorry just she's just going? Should we approve.

I

A number of these changes, but not all of them, we could do that.

A

Yeah martin, I was gonna, I was gonna suggest and if you're coming back here for a blanket.

D

Or uh forgiveness, approval of all these, I can't support that. No, but if you come.

D

Back with a serious plan about what you can fix and what you're asking for approvals for.

D

Maybe that that's a conversation that could occur that I could get around, um I don't think we can.

D

Do it tonight, I I think this is too much. This is like a work session. Martin. I I in all due respect.

E

Maybe you're right, but I think it's important to prioritize it's either. You know there's a.

E

Lot of items on this list everybody's aware of that he's enumerated them all.

E

In my mind, it's about choosing the ones that are sort of non-negotiable.

E

And which I'm guessing isn't as long a list for everybody as it might be, for you and.

E

Getting consensus here so he knows what to do versus no, no nothing uh beyond what's been said.

G

May I suggest certainly that mr cracknell is being extraordinarily charitable.

G

Someone that's just ignored the efforts he's not on the board. Yeah.

G

um I I think I would like to go along with what martin had proposed and leave them hanging.

G

Until they come up with something, it sounds like we're going to play a game of. Let's make a deal.

G

But I think it's been said already that we're all pretty certain we're not going to make them put.

G

The chimney back just so that we can see two courses of brick above the ridge, so it we're.

G

Already making a deal, and he knows that the applicant knows it and- and I think he heard.

G

The commission and the members of the commission make comments about what they they can swallow.

G

And what they can't and I'm sure that he'd love to come back for a blanket approval. But I think.

G

That doing a partial approval on a runaway project is uh is being too charitable. Sir.

A

um I'm going to agree with nick I I think that we can uh pull a couple items out and approve.

A

The changes as they have been submitted with a couple items to have to come back and be changed.

A

um I I just do not want to be in the position of being a real judge and jury here david. It's.

G

Well, it just means that we have to now decide what those things are going to be. Well, I mean so I mean.

A

The portico and back and the dormer are those two big ones. In other words, number 15 and number 25 is.

A

There is there something else that somebody could not support and vote for this screens.

A

Screens and so if we were to say no screens on the front of the building.

I

I would be fine with that, or they can also try and put order half screens instead, because yeah.

A

No full screens on the front, so that's three big items there.

D

May I ask a question: yes go ahead, is there an occupancy uh yeah, that's the problem which yeah.

I

We're holding up occupancy for this I mean I have no idea. It's either occupancy or closing.

A

Off a mortgage in the bank saying they have to see you know, I don't think we know that yet we.

H

Don't you know the answer, I don't know, I believe they have certificate of occupancy. I think they're.

E

Waiting to close out the the site bond, the site approval bond with the planning board. Yes, so it's.

E

Really, oh, okay! So, and and what is the immediacy for another month that we can't have them come.

D

Back and take all our comments here tonight back with a serious plan- and uh I present because.

A

One thing the weather's closing and winter's coming, but that's not the point. There are now.

A

With the screens three major items- and it seems that we do have kind of a consensus that that.

A

Is what's giving everyone a heartburn? I think you're just upset because there's 32 items wow.

D

I'm not really upset, I just don't wanna. I just don't want this us to have to bail this out. Yeah.

I

Of everything, but not every yeah, but not a few- it's not going to change there. It's not going to.

I

Be able to move their project forward, it's still going to be on they're still going to have stuff.

E

To close out right, but the obvious implication is if you've got 32 items and there are 10 that are.

E

Problematic and one member has 15 another member has two: no, it's not easy for the applicant. In my.

E

Opinion to know how to address each one of those items coming back. So if there was the ability to.

E

Have maybe the easier stuff that's okay identified, not necessarily approved, it shortens their list.

E

Even if it only drops to 31 there's a benefit, is this discussion enough to help you out? Yes,.

H

I mean I think this is to martin's point. I think what we're looking for out of this was.

H

To understand what are the sticking points here, where things have ended up and to understand what.

H

The how to remedy those uh moving forward, and so it is helpful if we can, you know all agree.

H

To take some of these off the list at this point, but from an approval standpoint, if it's simpler.

H

For you guys for us to come back and address the items that we've heard you um raise concerns about.

H

um Then I I think we can do it that way. So nick I've already asked a question of the board. What.

A

Are the specific ones that you know give you a heartburn, so you wouldn't vote.

A

To approve- and so I think, that's what we need and I think you probably want to mention the number of.

A

You know on the sheet as it is. Yes margo, I'm I'm sorry, john. I would simply like to make a motion.

C

That we postpone this administrative approval until the next meeting and give the applicant the.

C

Opportunity to listen to the recording, if need be, but I think everybody has made pretty clear their.

C

Feelings on these things- and I think we need to move on for others- we do need to move on correct.

C

So I think martin is right that we should have this postponed and let the applicant come back.

A

Can I ask you, do you have a clear idea of where a lot of heartburn lies on this project? I think.

H

So I've been I've been taking my notes here, I'll, go back and listen to the recording.

H

um Again that I think that was what we were hoping to get out of this meeting is understand. Okay, but.

A

um Before we vote, I do have to listen to the public, no, no, no approval. This is an admin. Okay,.

A

um We have a second second, all right, all those in favors all right, all those again.

B

Remember, thank you. Can I just ask yeah so the next meeting that you have a meeting in a week or two.

E

um I'm sorry november 2nd number. Second, okay! Thank you! Yeah, okay, seven hancock.

A

What was that doing as an admin? Well, hey, look! It's gonna come it's an admin approval! If it's.

E

The other thing uh last thing I want to hear when it comes back is well. We should send it back out.

E

Because it's not an admin approval, so how do we want to deal with this in november? Because.

E

It does sound like a work session. It's going to sound way more, like a work session next month than.

E

It did tonight yes, uh so what are we doing here? Yeah? It should come back as a work session. Public.

A

Hearing or yeah or we do something different and it's a work session with an admin approval.

E

It's whether it needs to be average, it's exciting, you're, not gonna, know.

E

Not gonna know what you already you've got the worst case scenario. I doubt he's going.

E

To submit something less aligned with you than what was presented tonight so would.

E

Should this have been a public hearing? What do we got here? Nick well, hancock, probably.

E

What probably should have been in public? Then? Let's do a public hearing yeah all.

E

Right, that's what I'm gonna do: uh seven hancock yeah! This is a condenser behind the house and.

E

I don't believe, despite asking the applicant, is proposing any type of screening. It's very simple.

E

Submission here this is this: isn't behind in the back of the house, but.

C

It is surrounded by neighbors, this location yeah tonight, so is somebody here from hancock.

A

um So am I seeing a shadow or is that a black box uh probably yeah? Do you see that.

A

Yeah store storage in some kind of trunk, so I'm just wondering: is there something there.

A

That would not allow them to make a screen so um well, given they're not here, we could.

E

Approve it with a condition: they come back with a screen. Yes screen design. Yes,.

B

Apparently, how about that so moved? Second, second, all those in favor all right all right 93 is that.

A

It I'm going to ask who's here for 93, pleasant anybody, wow, okay, add screen, hang on oh well, 93.

E

Pleasant, uh I thought someone might be here to present this, but that's okay, I'll at least tell.

E

You what it is and we can decide whether yeah we see it, we do it. Yeah you've seen the application.

E

They are, I believe, seeking just two modifications: one to switch the three, the. What somebody's here.

B

I'll get it on the screen, um thanks margo.

E

Okay boom there we go. That's the building yep. What they're uh proposing to do, I believe, are.

E

Three modifications one: they want not a small uh request, but I think they want to remove the.

E

Entire historic wall number everything set it aside, do the construction and then put it back.

E

uh Presumably the way it is today, uh that's number one if I got it right and number two.

E

Is the the elevator or stair stairwell overrun is a little bit taller yeah and then number.

E

Three they're changing the uh the siding, which I don't even know. What or what poly ash was to hardy.

E

That portal yeah yeah, so apparently the hardy, is more fireproof than the boral. I think it is yeah.

E

I've got laurel and it does burn really yeah. What do you do chop it up? I put it.

B

In a fire to test it, yeah and okay um sounds like it works yeah yeah anyway,.

E

um That's yeah, so you know concerning the wall. I just um wanted to remind everybody about four.

A

Years ago- and I don't have to remind karen but um the wall to the cemetery uh was taken down.

A

And put back in what seems to me: oh, a very close proximity to what it was.

A

I can't swear every stone, but um they didn't take it off-site, though no no, they didn't rebuilt. It.

G

But this really taking it off site shouldn't affect anything unless they lose it or something.

I

I don't know if I can agree, we don't know that I can.

A

Avoid the whole it's, it would be well incredible undertaking if they could.

I

Actually put it back exactly how it is, but um I I think it's talented people as.

I

You're really messing with the integrity of that historic wall, and it is a very historic wall.

A

um Mind you that there's going to be a large excavators in there digging down for a parking.

A

And if they needed to remove a section of it in order for that for access or if it.

A

Falls over or is damaged well, they would have to protected heavily. If I would be.

I

They needed to remove a section for access. I would be a little bit more over here.

D

I I don't have a problem with, I think, there's the prudent way to to do it, because.

D

They're gonna have to shore it up if they don't and and they're going to leave a condition. That's.

D

Probably a little uh they they want to do it right and- and I think this is doing it.

D

Right and we just need to make sure that it's properly documented and uh that they.

D

Number it properly and it goes back the way it was taken out. So I can. I can accept that.

D

What do you feel dan just just to keep the conversation going? How will we know that, if.

G

You take a video of the whole documentary, who will you could I will? No. All you think is why.

E

Don't we stipulate if we go that route which I'm not suggesting we are? We stipulate that.

E

Be a requirement prior to any of the stones being removed, it being a copy being provided to the city.

E

I thought they mentioned that. Well, I don't know, but if even if they mentioned it, let's, if this was.

E

To move forward, let's stipulate that so it doesn't get missed and they're they're going to know.

E

There's a thorough inspection, not just by vince, but all of you. um You know, I'm not advocating one.

E

Way or the other, but I think it I think it can be done as presented. uh Is there an insurance policy.

B

On it I mean just remember what they did to the old fire station. They were going to take it apart.

C

Next to the fire station, oh that yeah yeah, that's a little. I think this is different, but yeah.

E

um But whatever well, it's it's a good intentions. I understand, but can we guarantee there's good.

B

Intentions, because I mean this was a big discussion. We wanted that wall. They want.

B

To take it down anyway, and we fought to keep it, was it still historic when.

B

You take it apart and put it back, I mean, I think, you're only what that's a there's two.

E

David's got a question, but david, can I just say something to that or do you want to go.

E

You're raising two questions there, one is: is it still historic which I'm not answering um the.

E

First, one is: how can we guarantee, if things go bad, that it find its way back here from wherever it's.

E

Being stowed, you know it, I'm certainly not going to speak on behalf of the applicant who's, not.

E

Here or anybody representing him, but it would be possible to get surety uh from the applicant some.

E

Guarantee in the form of surety that that goes back and there's the ability to get the funding.

E

Needed to put it there, if they don't put that back, then there then that's going to be come up in.

A

Front of us, of course, and they're not going to get their occupancy permit so they're going to have a.

A

Multi-Million dollar building sitting there empty because they don't want to put the stone wall back.

D

uh Yeah, I I think, david's idea. We should look at this and it should be photographed all certainly.

A

Totally, let's hear what david sorry dave go ahead: yeah! Sorry dave! No! No really! I appreciate all the.

G

Conversation, I I have some mundane things to mention. One is. We just saw an applicant that.

G

Had good intentions that uh slipped and fell short of the mark and most things happen a.

G

Thing that martin was intimating uh is that uh how much safer will this be in the backyard of.

G

Some farmers field in derry, new hampshire for a couple of years, uh is that a better place for.

G

It than uh excavators swinging their buckets back and forth over the top of it. um We have, you know.

G

The assumption is that this can be done. I've nothing to this scale, but I've taken chimneys.

G

Apart and put them back together with this brick going in the same place, it's it can be done.

G

And the other is, there's nothing really magical about the position of any of those stones in.

G

That wall to say that it has some historic event that is relate to this stone being right. Next to.

G

That stone, on the other hand, the easiest way to describe that stone wall is the way it is now.

G

So it makes perfectly good sense that we'd want to do that and it's as a concept, but but it that.

G

It's going to get roughed up, it's like pointing a masonry building. It always looks different after.

G

It's been pointed, it always looks different and it's hard to fight the reaction. The knee-jerk.

G

Reaction, my god they've taken my history away by pointing all of this mortar and it's a stupid.

G

Thing I know, but I say those things all the time. um I'm sure all of this can be done. The question.

G

Is can it? Can we actually, as a group, manage to do that? I think we can okay go ahead. Margo.

B

My my concern with the rebuilding of the wall, even as well documented, documented as it is, is.

C

You, as david has said, you're never going to get the texture that you had before you know. Is it.

C

Somebody's going to fix it up a little bit, make it a little bit better put this stone. You know just.

C

So and it and it loses the texture, and so it goes back to this question of you know: what's historic.

C

And, what's what's restoration versus renovation versus okay? President margo, are you familiar.

A

With power washing john somebody could get it in their mind, this is old stone wall. They could power.

A

Wash this wall hey them, it's got a lot of lichen and it has a lot of dirt and filth on it and it.

A

Has mortar here and it doesn't have mortar that they could power wash this without even getting.

A

A permit, and that would change the texture of the wall so john. I think that we're all making.

I

Our own valid opinions, I understand that I have my own valid opinion. It's fine we're not being asked.

I

I've just moved up. She did so move it to where let's vote on it, then I'm sick of listening to.

A

It myself, I think we need to postpone this, because we have no one here to present this so I'll move.

I

That we postpone this to next week, just in case no, it won't be next week. It is going to be november.

E

We're not having a meeting next week. Oh okay, fine uh so november. All those in favor aye rose against.

A

A

One of these days we're going to come up with a meeting. Everything shows up you're on oh.

G

40 pleasant streets, yeah, okay, soccer; okay, I'm sorry, don't wear a skirt! All right work session.

A

Requested by custom house llc owner for property located at 40, pleasant street wearing permission.

A

Is requested to allow renovations to an existing structure, replace windows and new construction to.

A

An existing structure add new window canopy system and add exterior lighting and as per plans on.

A

File in the planning department said, property is shown on assessment map. 107 is lot, 81 lies within.

A

Character, district 5, downtown overlay and historic districts, a question nick didn't they remove the.

A

Canopies from this approval, didn't I read that uh you probably read it from me and that's why.

E

I asked the applicant, maybe well, you left the site visit for a minute. We struck it yeah. It was.

E

Removed for now, okay, so does everyone understand that the awnings have been removed? Yeah, yeah, okay,.

L

Standing in for brandon, who is feeling a little ill tonight, um oh no! So as mentioned, we pulled.

L

The canopy from last month's uh submission just because we're we're more interested in getting.

L

The windows and lighting sorted out and moving forward and we may or may not revisit the canopy.

L

Just depending on the client's desire, when we get there, when we get there we'll come back.

L

um So yeah some, some of you guys, took the sidewalk earlier today, so so this might be.

L

A little repetitive, um but if we just on the uh historic context, pictures the next.

L

Slide here I just kind of want to point out one thing: um just from our view be.

L

If we look at the pleasant street elevations on this sort of the at the on the state street,.

L

Corner there, it appears that there is a door there where there's currently a window.

L

I'm just bringing that up because, at least as submitted we're looking to make that a door again.

L

um So just something to keep in mind um you know- and just some of this is again repetitive from.

L

Last month, so we've got the existing windows, uh just the basic uh ground, plane uh plan.

L

um But we get into the um existing elevations. We've got a little more.

L

Thorough of uh existing windows survey, um some of which we kind of pointed out on our sitewalk.

L

um I think from the combination of windows and sills and uh just general window trims.

L

That are there. I think we have nine different situations that are happening around this building.

L

um Ideally, as part of changing out these windows, we're going to get this more.

L

Consistent uh look all the way around, um so you know that basically, the the.

L

Existing elevations kind of call out, you know the window types and sort of the.

L

Various conditions that we see from each one uh we make it to like ae7 7-0 here.

L

It's sort of a next one back there we go so it's just a sort of a summary of the window, types that.

L

Are there currently and then the various details down at the bottom kind of show us.

L

um We believe that the um sort of the the steel three-quarter round steel sill was probably the.

L

Original uh condition, um however, some of that steel quarter round is either missing or is.

L

Part of it's missing, it's all very rusted um in pretty rough shape. On that end, some.

L

Of the windows down along the actual street level just have a traditional wood, brick mold.

L

Which is sort of detailed, too um detail three again, it's just. There is no trim whatsoever.

L

um So yeah, so the difference between two and four is um and, as somebody pointed.

L

Out it looked like at one time they infilled some rear exit doors and those window units.

L

Actually have a wood sill, but the window units right next to it have a stone cell.

L

um And then further along down the like the, uh I forget, the name of the road on the opposite side.

L

Of the pleasant street church church along the church street elevation uh you'll go through one.

L

Stretch where there is a wood three-quarter round that matches the side of the metal, then you have.

L

The metal trim, then you have a wood three-quarter round, that's actually smaller than another metal.

L

And then you it's just it's a whole menagerie of uh window detailing when you really get down to.

L

As somebody mentioned earlier, the minutia of all of this so basically richard's trying to show you.

L

Guys graphically hey, you know, there's a lot going on on that cool and then the next sheet just kind.

L

Of is some images that just show a little bit and highlight some of that. So, ideally, you know.

L

You guys can kind of flip, so there's a trim on the outside is kind of important and I think.

A

It's something that um you know we should discuss as this is a work session at, so anybody want to.

A

Jump into, and does everyone understand what he was saying, the exteriors? So what do you all feel.

A

I'm going to start with karen. What do you feel about all these options about the windows yeah.

B

um Of course, I I like the the iron, but I understand, there's an issue with some of those.

B

So I I would hope that you would be able to stay as close to that in profile. Yes, the goal is it.

L

Would further back we get that the proposed detail for that is to basically replicate that.

L

That metal trim as far as profile, like you said, um placement for the windows that have the wood.

C

Sill, would the new installations have the wood cell, or would they be able to go to the stone.

L

All the window units are a unit, so they're going to have a cell on them.

L

So which you know again, some of it, if you just look at the bottom right, for example, I mean we've.

L

Got this rusted metal sill, that's sitting up on top of you know some sort of on the stone there.

L

It's just if you don't keep it within the unit to begin with, at least as far as we could tell.

L

You know you're not going to have the same weather, tightness, I'm not quite sure on.

L

Warranty on these manufacturers, but I'm willing to bet they're gonna hedge on that sort of thing.

L

Anyone else well, I have a question about.

I

Whether or not you can retain any of the historic and existing um brick molds, like you were saying.

I

With the the the three-quarter round metal and things like that around there or if that is.

I

All going to come off as well I, what I'm asking is is are the are these new window units gonna.

I

Everything, including the trim or you just getting the new sash and trying to I I mean I guess.

L

Make in a perfect world or maybe not a perfect world, but you know it if you're just trying.

L

To make it uh something that you're gonna be happy with the the results and know that you're.

L

Gonna have good ceiling, and you know, as far as a window replacement, taking out the damaged and and.

L

um You know the damage trim or whatever replacing it, with something newer that you you have that.

L

Control, essentially, um you know I. I would think that the owner would may not be against trying.

L

To restore some of that, but it's going to be sort of you're going to get back to a mishmash because.

L

Some of it's missing so now we definitely have wood there right. um You know some of this you're.

L

Going to get into it and you think you're going to be able to save it and then you're just like.

L

It just starts crumbling yeah. We understand david margo, rich anybody, uh a couple of thoughts of one.

G

Is is I the I still haven't grappled with whether it's important to unify all the window? Openings.

G

Or to to have some be preserved and some be replicated, I sort of think that for the most part.

G

Anything that's painted doesn't really matter in the larger picture. As long as the profiles.

G

Match what the substrate is, we allow plastic and different kinds of wood. uh Another question that.

G

I can't help rattle in my head is how can there be so many metal parts and not have more of the stone.

G

Work broken from the fasteners, but that's that's a detailed way down the road, but it still puzzles me.

G

um And another one is those first floor windows that had been converted into doors back when.

G

The post office had their big shed on the back and then we're re-interpreted as windows. Again.

G

Do we want to leave those as reinterpreted or do we want them to try to improve those.

G

Also, uh these are things I haven't, I'm not settled in my head. Yet, okay has anyone else.

A

Got any unsettling thoughts here, marco rich, we prefer settled thoughts actually very settling.

B

um I mean I'll agree with commissioner adams that um I mean these windows if it's metal or wood or.

B

As long as it is painted in you know, from street point of view, they're going to look the same.

B

I don't know again and then again I'm not the original expert up here, but no, you know.

B

Looking at the ones that have been replaced by wood compared to the ones that are metal.

B

I don't have a problem with it: yeah.

A

I think it's such a huge building and so high that um yeah, nothing even noticed the one thing that I.

A

Would like to say is that we couldn't help but notice up uh on the third floor. There were two.

A

Windows that were original, apparently it's just one one- that we could confirm the other.

L

One we couldn't get into the space to actually look, but we believe it looked very similar. Yeah.

A

And they are in awkwardness, these two right here.

A

So uh they're not in an office.

A

It it seems that currently configured yes yeah. Those windows, I feel, should be preserved as.

A

One who went on the sidewalk- I don't know what uh other people think they're, not in terrible.

A

Condition at all they're, you know these were heavy windows when they were made and they're still good.

B

100 I mean if something can be preserved. I definitely think we should. You know, make.

J

That effort, um especially just to keep this is to keep it as an example, you know just what's.

L

There and not lost yeah. That would definitely if we know, if you know, for like example, the one.

I

With the stairs behind it, you know it's not gonna, it's not meant to be operable, probably.

I

Anyway, if you keep the stair, if it's gonna stay that way on the interior with stairs behind it,.

I

But you could easily just put an interior storm on it and it would be set, can keep everything.

D

I'm still uncertain, what's being asked for here.

L

We want to even like change out these windows to something all right. Okay, you have the you have.

D

The molding that separate from the windows and each are in very different conditions.

D

What is your strategy towards that, and when it comes to the windows, what are you proposing new.

D

Sashes or a new window window unit new window unit, new trim; okay. So what about the surrounding.

D

The three-quarter that would be brick mold, that would be a wood custom. Wood also match. Yes,.

D

Replace completely yes, okay, so so the big round metal trim also goes away yeah, even if it's in.

E

Good shape, oh well, see that's that goes back to some of it doesn't even exist anymore. So this.

E

Has to be talked about the stuff we saw today I mean I'm, I'm sure that I mean we can get into.

L

And maybe there's some stipulation that can be brought up that you know if it's deemed to be in.

L

Good condition we'll paint it and- and you know, keep the original metal there. You know, but it's.

L

Okay, I'm not walking up there to check no, no one else by any. We don't at this point. So if.

A

Possible, I think what he's saying is: if a trim is restorable, then they will restore it. Yes, david, but.

G

Earlier he said that uh he said sorry um that the sills some of the sub-cills are metal also.

G

Then his new frame is going to require those to be yanked out. So the only thing that you're going.

G

To be able to save is possibly those three-quarter staff, beads and the rest of the historic material.

G

On those windows that he's touching, yes is going to be swapped out for new yeah.

B

Yeah, may I ask a question? Yes, I was not able to attend the sidewalk.

C

The original the win, the original windows is there a way that you can take that as a template.

C

And make your recommendation for how the rest of the window should be treated with regard to trim.

C

And sills, and everything like that, I mean in a way we come up with one recommendation for all.

C

Of these is there: is there a reason they should be different? Can that be used as a template? It will.

C

Reference, the history, but give you a new window and forget whether this one happened to be metal.

C

Trim now and that one was wood trim. Now that was somebody doing a hodgepodge of things without a.

C

Plan right, you have the opportunity to make a plan yeah. Well, we are we're presenting. We want.

L

To go with a color reserve line with a 5 8 inch, putty mold. That is the same width as the original.

L

Quarter inch, the manufacturer's depth is not exactly what the depth is of the original.

L

Certainly, on the interior on the exterior I again didn't get up there to be able to.

L

Actually measure it, but I'm sure that the exterior depth is probably a little shallower.

L

um But I mean that's, that's the second half of this thing. It's showing hey. These are the windows.

L

We want to put in these are the products that we would like to use here. Is the million we'd like to.

L

Use- and this is the moyen compared to if we go to, for example, a 7.2 right here. So this is the.

E

So if I understood what you just said, you want sorry, john no you're, not using the two windows.

E

Really as templates, because they probably have metal sills, the originals and all the metal trim.

E

And you're proposing to match, as best you can, if I heard you correctly using the pella architectural.

E

Reserve series yes match as best you can: the profile of the windows, those original windows.

E

For all the other windows and all the trim and sills will be wood, not metal.

E

Unless you can save something, no, I mean that's essentially a 7.2 right here. That's what you're.

A

Saying so, you basically have the two existing grills up top yep. One is of the insulated. uh The.

L

One on the right on the upper right is probably of more interest for you guys, because that is.

L

The original a quarter inch item the bottom is the left is if we go with an aluminum, clad wood that.

L

Is what the grill profile would be from pella on the right bottom right is: if we went with a wood.

L

Window from pella, both of those are from their reserve. Okay, yeah. The pellet reserve series.

L

um And you know, I mean if we get our choice. We'd ideally would go with the clad just due to.

L

The durability and the longevity of it, however, we do understand the historic commission might.

L

Have other opinions, so that's why we presented the wood also, all right. What's the other half of.

A

Your presentation and the doors yeah well the lighting, the lighting bit. Okay, do you want to.

E

Go there finish finished it's up to you guys to finish what have we got left to say about the.

A

Window well, I would where's everybody. I can give my opinion on a 7.2 if anybody wants to hear it.

I

I I would be happy to approve this with the stipulation that that one window that we know.

I

Is original up behind the stairwell be preserved because it does also look like it's molding around.

I

It is also original, it's all metal and everything. So if, if that can be preserved- and it doesn't even.

I

Need to really be fully restored or anything like that. If you don't you know, but that's you.

I

Know it's it's preserved and saved right as an example um of what the original was I'd be happy.

I

To see the rest of the windows have this detail of the wood molding um to to replicate that okay.

I

And I could go either way. I don't know what most people think about the clad.

I

I prefer wood, but at the same time I know that the wood these days is not going to last and.

I

Hold up very well, and so um I mean it almost. It does make more sense to use a clad in terms of.

G

Scale, these are also very, very large windows, uh considering the conditions of wood windows that.

G

We see these days, I agree completely. Yeah um question would be, are we? What are we giving up.

G

By suggesting that, maybe this is an appropriate location for an aluminum clad window that you've.

G

Proposing what what are we losing? You know the fine print of these things much better than.

G

I do is there something else that has to fall away, because of that I lose. I feel it's all in.

G

Yeah, oh you're, funny guys there we go, um but are there anything things that you have to do.

G

Differently because you're using the aluminum, no, it's the exact same product line. So it's the.

L

Same profiles, it's the same, so there's less wood with a little metal than yeah than metal being.

B

Added to the same wood right right, right, right um profile should still be the exact yeah. If you.

L

Guys, if you look at the next, the next page here shows both again. This is sort of their standard.

L

Details, but you can see that the upper left is the glass all right. That's all right! The oh now.

L

There we go so the upper left is the clad and the upper right is the wood.

L

uh It was my understanding that these were on display here for a while. Well, it just took away.

L

I don't know that's just I was told we were trying to get a sample brought, but that the pella crew.

L

Was not able, I didn't deliver tonight, but they did say that they had them on display at city hall.

L

Well, you guys ask more questions. I think david raised a really good point from doing.

E

The sidewalk, those two, those two doorways that were turned into windows whenever yeah.

E

There's concrete whatever underneath them uh and maybe a wood panel. I don't even remember what was.

E

Under the big piece of concrete, maybe it's just sitting on the big blocks, but the stairs have.

E

All been replaced with that handicap ramp and those doors were were infilled with concrete.

E

Why wouldn't it make sense that if you're going to go to the bother of tearing out all.

E

The windows and probably most of the trim, that's on those openings that you put granite back where.

E

The concrete was sure given it's not that big and it would be appropriate, but I'm just dave.

E

Didn't quite say that, but I'm sure that's heading that way, but he meant that I think might have.

L

Did you mean that david? This is a group of questions that.

G

I was heading toward yes, okay, thank you.

G

I think it's really isn't a dave piano. I do try to you, know, engage.

G

Other people, in the conversation I'm right there with you all right.

A

And uh something that we should bring up right now: no screens.

L

They're on the inside, so okay, okay, you can get inside rolled screens. You can have all kinds of.

A

Fun, looking manufacturers are struggling with that internal you'll find some system, but they're all.

L

Fully aware that we're not putting anything on the outside, so the last thing, I would just say, that's.

E

Already been said, but if you're willing to save as much of that metal that is possible to save.

E

I think it makes sense that none of it be removed and you come back for admin.

E

Approval for the windows you want to remove it, so everybody can have a chance to look.

E

At whether it's should be removed, because it's not obvious to me looking at it, which one you.

E

Would keep and which one you wouldn't, and I think it's not a big ask to have you come back and say.

E

You know here are the five we want to ditch because we think it's degraded enough. We want.

E

To replicate it in wood, well, let me ask the members of the board what they feel about that.

B

I would support that. I'd also support the granite.

A

Okay, so everybody is that's a stipulation, then it is a significant building in town. This has got to.

G

Be it yeah? I realize that david and I I have another question, a picky question about these.

I

Windows yep, because we don't have oxygen, is, does this one and it looks like the wood profile. This.

I

Is where it might be different um is that the wood profile doesn't show that it's got some sort of.

I

Little exterior tiny frame that goes all the way around it to hold screens or anything like that.

I

um And so that's what I'm hoping not to see. Where do you know what I'm talking about like how new.

I

Windows often have a an exterior little yeah. Well, we specifically chose the profiles that did not.

L

Have them right because we don't have screens on the outside and I'm just seeing it because.

I

It looks like that in the aluminum clad, and that might just be because those are four screens.

I

So great that was that's. I don't see it there huh good good catch you because it's there. Yes,.

G

They are white in the drawing and not squiggly line like the wood cord. So I think that's the.

G

Message well, um there is something else that um used to be brought up by mr rawling and that.

A

Concerned, um I'm not sure about this particular brand. This is probably must be the premium.

A

Brand of pella, but um the the jam liners the actual guides that the sashes go up and down.

A

On these number, one cannot be white cannot be beige.

A

If you know what I'm saying no no yeah, I understand so I have to verify, but they would.

B

Assume what the price point of this that they're going to match the color of the window? But you.

A

Know that's well that's what I'm thinking, but then I've seen there's a building over in newcastle.

A

That is so painful. It's right on main street and all I can see is the white jam liners on.

A

The black replacement- well, let's hope the windows aren't white, because white white's, the the cheaper.

E

Window, uh what color are the windows? Not white, so they're either? Are they black, probably black,.

E

I mean black, I mean this is an impregnated product. I think you and, as dave said, yeah.

E

Probably one of the top buildings in portsmouth needs to be done well and yeah. So can you.

A

Stipulate that so that it it's not something that will escape yes, so I think you go with the black.

E

Window with a matching jam liners, yes, and if they decide to change it, they have to come back.

A

So I guess we're ready to well, we want the lights yeah.

E

You want to do the lights all right, one last question, so the old doors you're turning back.

B

Into windows and you're putting granite underneath it also said something on our walk about. Perhaps.

B

Putting another new door right, that was the door that I pointed out on the historic photo there so.

L

um Depending on what we're do currently doing, studies on what those upper floors want to be.

L

uh Depending on what that use ends up being it just for life, safety purposes uh makes sense to.

L

Actually recreate that stair tower again, um where I got cut off and if we do that, then the logical.

L

Spot would be to make that a door again and you'll come back with that decision. Absolutely thank you.

B

Just on that point, we we noticed, while we were out there looking at that potential door location here.

E

That the original photo that's at the beginning of this thing, yeah yeah sure it does show the.

E

Door, but it also shows the door dumping into this big grape right, you'd lose a foot almost in.

E

Between the rails, so I can't believe if you were to reintroduce that that you wouldn't.

E

Have to change that condition on the surface of the landing, which makes it a more complicated.

E

Change because it won't resemble this beyond the door opening, because that black line, that's.

E

Symmetrical going across for the window wells to the basement to bring light down, probably can't.

E

Stay there in today's building code outside that door. So hopefully you don't need the door right.

L

um I think the client would agree we'll see what the code says. Okay, so what else have we.

A

Got here the lighting so yeah, I guess so. We also presented the lighting uh which again we had.

L

um Two different fixtures and I think we got some um pictures for you guys.

L

um Our lighting rep has put two different fixtures on the wall over top of the restaurant. That was.

E

Today, uh today, just reading the walk, we had the four inch led strip um up lit, so you can see that.

L

Which is sort of the first picture is showing that strip and how it's sitting on the ledge.

L

um At the second level, there strips right on there, one so the the next, the next page kind of.

L

Shows that light at night how it's just we're more interested right now on just the coverage on it.

L

And the color that uh it presents, I believe that one's a 3000k uh color on that the next is showing.

L

The fixture that we have in the package, which is more of a spotlight and is, uh I believe so that's.

L

A 3500k, so it's a little we're getting a little more into the blues, a little less out of the.

L

um You know a little less warm, but that's still a fairly warm color overall.

L

um Kind of more represent, you know, give you an idea of how that's going to look as you can see.

L

At least from those pictures we're going to need to do something on for the third.

L

Floor wall, uh whether that's from above down or replicating, essentially what we got on the second.

L

Floor, where we're out on that ledge shooting up um somewhere along those lines, kind of leaning.

L

More towards the linear, just because it has less hot spots compared to that spot. That's.

L

Being shown there, so what are you looking for approval for you? Don't have your plan for the.

A

Third floor right: well, I mean at this point we're the main thing we want to get approves.

L

The windows, so we can get those ordered just because the quotes getting ticking by the lights.

L

We got the rep to come in and put those out, and you know if you guys want to prove hey. You can.

L

Do strict lights? No! Thank you. We have at it. It will be more than happy, but we also understand.

A

That you know there might be a little bit more. You want on that. There is something in the beginning.

A

Of the meeting about the quasi-judicial nature of our board, yeah just take it easy.

D

I would just are these things supposed to be on the on the ground, on the on the uh steps or where.

D

Are they going to be located they're, basically going to be illuminating? The upper two stories.

L

So they're going to be at the the top top of the first story: they're going to illuminate up they're.

D

They're not sitting on the ground like they're, not on the ground, that's not on the ground. The.

D

Picture there is actually on the it's it's on the roof that you're seeing there, but that's.

L

Actually, on the second all right any down light at the second well, that's the thing is that we.

L

Were able to do that, we weren't able to get in the attic just to do a quick mock-up to kind of show.

L

But you know the original thought was to get up basically around. Maybe the fish line shoot down.

L

um But there was also the thought of possibly going just essentially third shooting back in.

E

The market they're shown here they're shown here we are showing and those are those.

L

Which again are a little they're, a little hotter than what we.

L

um Kind of long, I think we want just sort of a softer glow. Ideally, and one more question are.

D

You talking about all four sides of the building for sure three sides, um probably all four actually.

L

I mean you know the historical portion of it. It would break that down four sides. Four sides, david.

G

um Thank you, mr chairman. um I'm a little concerned, as you can imagine about uh lighting this thing.

G

Like it was a broadway show, and so uh the the puck unit, the high intensity puck unit to me, is.

G

Is too dramatic a piece of lighting? I'm not all that bothered. I guess at least in this.

G

Photograph, what I see of what happens over from the forefoot fluorescent-like unit, that.

G

You're using that and I'm more of a fan of the 3000k than the 3500 it um you can imagine, I'm.

G

Also gonna jump up and down saying I want to see nothing all the metal is going to be stainless.

G

um Because if there's a building in town, that's being torn apart by history of.

G

Iron fasteners being drilled into it. uh It's this building everywhere. You.

G

Look on the building. It's I'm pleased that you see that's cool. It's not funny to me.

G

um I also wonder about what lighting in the cornice of the third floor is going to look.

G

Like visually during the daytime, but I'm at this at the moment I I could easily see myself voting.

G

For the fluorescent units on the second floor, ledge, those are actually leds. They're, just long.

L

I understand they're not fluorescent but they're. Very much like a four foot fluorescent tube yeah.

I

So I agree, those are better yeah. I think the uh the two versus the spotlight is.

B

Does it is a lot softer? Does it make sense, given there's more lighting you're going to be adding.

E

Than just the bottom light going up that you have, your lighting person show us actually what you.

E

Want to do in a complete form without going around all the building, but at least top and bottom so.

E

People can see it before they're guessing they understand it. I would have to talk to the lighting.

L

If that makes sense, just the logistics of that and then I should be able to do that online or we can.

L

Just have john come over and do it. um I would like to see a complete mock-up. um You know I've.

B

Seen you've shown us the lighting lights facing up, but I would like to see them how they appear.

B

Going down as well, um I know I've received some emails. People concerned that light will shine in.

B

Their windows or shine in their homes but it'd, be nice to see and show them and just make sure.

A

Okay, so does it make sense to pull the lighting out right now.

D

Okay, so windows, windows, yeah.

A

So um we're looking at the windows at this point we had three. We have. We have four potential.

E

Stipulations that at least I wrote down okay, you want me to recap them. Yes, why not? No specific.

E

Order reagan did say, preserve the original window. It you know, maybe you want to modify that to be.

E

The two original windows- nobody, including the applicant- thinks it's not original and they're.

E

Side by side and they're, the only two windows on that elevation on the third floor, but yeah.

E

So maybe two windows uh item two retain all the the metal uh trim, whatever it's called uh and come.

E

Back for administrative approval to remove any of it, so we have a chance to see what you're removing.

E

Before it's removed number three, that the concrete wall units under the in window inserts on church.

E

Street be replaced with granite um in the two locations, we saw the door openings and then number.

E

Four that the windows, the the pella architectural reserve series that is aluminum clad the black.

E

uh With black jam liners with jam liners to match the window, I'm concerned about the stipulation.

I

About the replacing with granite yep, because it's not really what their they're here for yeah, but so.

E

Well, I don't, um I don't know, I'm just they're here for more and you're, not doing that. I don't know it.

E

The windows coming out, if yes, but I mean, I guess, potentially reused- yeah in the in the.

L

Spirit of debates, the client could just say: oh I'm not going to replace those two windows, then.

E

They could and they'd come back and ask for that modification, yeah, yeah.

A

um How does everyone feel about the stipulation.

B

Question are you removing the door.

B

To the um fire escape, can we please pardon me, can we please right now we're keeping it just.

L

Because it is a means of egress, ideally we want to get rid of that yeah all right. It's next to.

B

The two original windows, so what would you put in a placement window or try to ah we would just get.

L

The same window units going around everywhere else, hence the requirement for a stone infill.

G

What huh yes required for stone infill on the back talking about that? Oh the third floor.

I

Talking about this david, oh the third website, I thought I was talking about the downstairs door.

G

Sorry no never mind yeah. Okay, I mean the client may be all for it. It's just you know it's one of.

L

Those things where yeah really good at spending other people's money, but I probably shouldn't.

L

Just willfully spend his money without having the discussion with him on it. Well, it certainly could.

E

Be stipulated if people agree with it here that that emergency access door on the third floor.

E

Could be replaced with a replacement window to match all the pella windows on the rest of the.

E

Building, if your client agrees to do that or wants to do that and if they don't they don't.

E

So you don't have to come back and ask for that there again when that fire escape is removed.

A

It's going to lead all kinds of little rust, lead shields and everything else in there matches the.

L

Motif of all the others, maybe it doesn't need to be removed, even if the door is not a door.

A

Is that part of our decision well he's not asking for the fire escape to be taken off.

E

So it's it's not coming, so it's just going to sit there yeah, where the window well.

E

Somebody could go out the window yeah, especially going um so I'm going to ask.

A

uh If anybody in the public would like to comment about this building, these changes.

A

uh Doesn't seem to be anyone? No one online.

E

Working on it wait, wait.

A

No okay, so I'm going to close the public hearing and look for a motion.

A

With the stipulations we have, please mention our guidelines.

I

All right, um I moved that we approved this application.

I

For only the windows- and I thought they'll come back to us with the lighting plan.

I

E

Preserve the two original windows preserve the two original windows that we use. The clad.

I

um Window tele option um black uh color with jam liners to match- or at least yes, no screen.

E

No screens no screens yeah uh and that the retention of all the metal staff beads unless.

G

You have a problem with some and those are going to be handled on an administrative manner. Yeah.

E

They should all be preserved and reused unless you come back and demonstrate they're they're.

E

Not reusable sure, and then we still have the the concrete wall lock um under those.

E

Two former door entryways off church street to be replaced with granite. As for discussion,.

A

Yeah, if the motion maker I'll second that motion all righty, so uh um this I'll just say this.

I

I mean it does a lot conservation, enhancement of property values.

I

um And has relation to historic and architectural value of the existing structure.

A

All right very good, so anybody else want to make a comment on the second or anything I'll. Just ask.

A

For a vote in favor do we need to stipulate that that uh emergency door may be replaced with yes.

E

A window I thought you mentioned, I didn't read it. I mentioned it uh so yeah you may replace it with.

E

A pillow architect, the window, that's proposed up on the third floor or third floor. Okay, that's good!.

E

Which does not include removal of the fire escape, so we've got the stipulations all those in favor.

A

Say aye aye against, so you have your approval, your window changes. Thank you. You're welcome.

G

Come on spend a little money. I thought it.

L

Said I mean I can spend other people's houses all right. Okay,.

A

Customize customers, so we at the city of portsmouth owner for property located at.

A

Zero marcy street prescott park wherein permission is requested to allow the partial demolition of.

A

An existing structure, the rear portions of the shaw warehouse, the relocation of the remaining.

A

Structure closer to marcy street and renovations to an existing structure, complete exterior.

A

Modifications as per plans on file in the planning department, said properties shown on assessor.

A

Map 104 as lot 5 lies within the municipal and historic district, okay who's. Here to present this.

A

Please introduce yourself good evening, commissioners, my name.

J

Is joe almeida I'm the facilities manager for the city of portsmouth.

J

um Know that this was meant to be a work session, public hearing, um I wasn't sure if.

J

We wanted to go to the table for the work session portion or, if you want to just present from here.

J

Very good we can do that uh with me. Tonight um is cassie bethany from weston sampson uh ted.

J

Chalukian from tolucan tolucan, architects, carlos guzman, also from that architectural.

J

Firm tom watson, the chairman of the blue ribbon committee, is also with us here in the front row.

J

um As most everyone knows, we are going through a major master plan project for prescott park.

J

It has been broken into phases. This phase 1a project, is ready for permitting and approval.

J

What we're going to present to you tonight is very similar to what we showed you in february.

J

um The project is very complex and the spacing between meetings is um is it takes a while because.

J

Not only are we doing a lot of architectural work in the on in phase 1a, but we're doing a.

J

Huge amount of resiliency work as well and uh subterrain and under underground drainage and.

J

So forth, so the um the bulk of what we're going to present tonight has all to do with the shaw, as as.

J

You read in the description uh chairman wyckoff. However, I want us to remain focused on on the.

J

Goals for tonight, which are the discussion around the demolition of what's referred to as the lean.

J

To and the garage the two smaller portions behind the actual uh original saw warehouse.

J

um Number two is the relocation of the shaw building uh further away from an out of the.

J

Flood flood zone towards marcy street and three um the full exterior renovation due due to the need.

J

Of structural reinforcement prior to shaw building relocation, um as all of us know, we have here a.

J

Very special you know waterfront building that has been here for quite some time. The two additions.

J

Are are lesser in um architecture, historical significance, um as we told you last time, we're.

J

Moving this forward in order to not only we're lifting the building up a few feet if you're, if.

J

You're at the park now- and you know where liberty lawn is where the liberty poll is and and the the.

J

Gardens in the in the summer, the height of that garden is basically being extruded across the park.

J

um To um to eliminate the flooding that we've been experiencing there for years, and it's.

J

Very significant and I'm sure, you've heard the strawberry bank is also fighting flooding that.

J

They haven't seen before, and this project comes be with it. A huge amount of study around climate.

J

And the potential for flooding in this area, so um the responsible thing to do in order to save shaw.

J

Is to lift it up with the earth as we and move it move it further away from the water. um Also.

J

Knowing that we selected a very specific distance that we're proposing to move the building forward,.

J

um Due to the fact that there are future plans that, hopefully will come to come to realization.

J

Of an addition on the back of the building that addition would house all the modern amenities that.

J

A building needs in the way of electrical rooms, elevators, restrooms, kitchenettes, mechanical rooms,.

J

We want to keep all of that out of shaw, and you know that that addition would serve would serve.

J

The park in the community, we we're we're not prepared to talk about the the exact size of.

J

The addition, the architecture of these, the addition we're really focusing on.

J

Getting approval to move shaw um and then come back later to have that discussion.

J

um With all that being said, I will introduce, or I will allow the team to come to the podium.

J

And present uh again in this work in this work session forum, um so ask away we're.

J

We're prepared to answer any questions you might have. We are very familiar with all the details.

J

That are going on to the building, um so we're ready for any questions you might have cassie.

M

Thank you for your time tonight.

M

Nick, if you could advance advance and joe spoke to the slide so just to advance one more.

M

um I am a landscape architect and I'm a project manager from western sampson and um I'm just.

M

Helping you to orient yourself to the actual area that we're talking about joe did a great job with.

M

The details, but we've looked at we we have an entire master plan that we looked at and that.

M

Was adopted in 2017 and amended in 2020? We then phased the project and looked at a phase. One.

M

Area which is the dashed yellow line, and we have since reduced that size to focus more closely on.

M

The water street, which is essentially the parking area and driveway and the shaw relocation. I just.

E

Want to point out for the members here that the the presentation you gave me today, that's on the.

E

Screen is a little bit different than what they were given. So they need to know that so they're.

E

Not looking at what you're talking about so this is the one changes that this slide was moved to.

M

This location so that I could speak first and then give ted the floor for the remainder of the slides.

M

So the area that is outlined in the darker yellow is the phase one area that joe referred to and.

M

The work that's included in there that's of focus tonight is the shaw, relocation and the demolition.

M

Of the garage and lean to and then really the particulars around, the exterior improvements.

M

Repair and renovation to the shaw, in addition, joe had mentioned and and I'll just reiterate, that.

M

We are elevating the shaw, we are elevating the water street driveway and parking area.

M

And we're connecting the chief to the shaw. We call that the bracket and it really becomes a.

M

A celebration of this, the the buildings as they have were originally intended to be in this line.

M

um And they will all be on the same plane now and then, underneath that all of the subsurface.

M

Storm water and drainage, tied up tied gates and such that are required to improve flooding, will.

M

Happen underneath the water street area, and that becomes our our way to mitigate.

M

um In this portion of the park, our way to mitigate the climate, resiliency challenges.

M

That were faced at prescott park, so I am happy to answer any site-related and.

M

Engineering questions but I'll pass the floor to ted to speak more about the show.

N

Thank you uh good evening, everyone, my name is ted saluki and I'm an architect from taluki interlukin.

N

It's good to be here again this evening, um with the risk of not reiterating with both.

N

Joe and cassie said maybe I'll start with this slide, which is really you know. Why are we.

N

Seeking these things to demolish and relocate and do the exterior improvements to the shaw.

N

Building and they're really center around two things that were brought up is one is around.

N

um Moving the shaw building into a higher ground, uh certainly around the flood projections that.

N

Are been mapped for the site and the second reason has been our work with the ppaf. The prescott park.

N

Arts festival and the opportunity to relocate the stage and the trailers to a new location that can.

N

Allow the lawn, as shown in the master plan, to be more centrally located within the park next, please.

N

So I'm going to walk you through a few three-dimensional diagrams. The first is just.

N

Showing uh graphically the first request, which is to demolish the lean to, and also the garage.

N

And relocate the shaw itself, uh we're moving in approximately 80 feet and raising at approximately.

N

Three to four feet: to an elevation of 10.7 feet with that uh relocation we'll be looking to do.

N

Exterior improvements along the secretary of interior standards and mothballing the interior.

N

To those standards as well next, please part of that relocation will allow to, within the master.

N

Plan, as shown, the landscape plan is to relocate in a future phase, the stage and the trailers such.

N

That the lawn could be more centrally located next and, as joe pointed out in a future phase,.

N

Not to be presented, but just to put context on the aspects of the overall vision is to then look to.

N

Relocate those trailers and support structures into a new addition that could also include.

N

Utilities and accessibility and those other demands that are a part of building next, please.

N

So what we did is a part of this process. We we drew the building, we crawled around the structure.

N

Itself we examined the details and throughout the structure next please, and we brought our.

N

Team of engineers and architectural members- I know call this to my left- spent a lot of time in.

N

The sub-basement area, looking through a number of details encountering some of the wonderful.

N

Yeah albino spiders that exist down there and uh we were able to that point to really document it.

N

And understand that, certainly a limited level that you gained through exploratory work, the state of.

N

The foundation system itself, as well as the post and beam structure, and what our team of engineers.

N

Determined is that you know there's certainly some rot. That's existing throughout the post and.

N

Beam structure that needs a lot of repair to the structure before it can be relocated. Next, please.

N

This is a drawing of the elevation. It's color coded to give you a sense of some of the things.

N

That we're looking at in the immediate term before our proposal is to relocate the shaw.

N

Essentially, the yellow cross, hatches the post and beam structure itself and there's.

N

A good bit of rot, that's relocated in different areas along that, and our structural engineer is.

N

Recommending to remove all the sheathing to get to that post and beam structure and to repair it.

N

As needed as well as repair the sill plates and then to resurface that with a plywood skin, that.

N

Will provide additional structural and lateral support to the structure. uh The roof will also.

N

Be all this, the finishes will be removed similar to the exterior where uh it can be re-sheathed.

N

With plywood prior to a new roof finish and we're seeking to salvage some of the existing granite.

N

uh Base in order to have an option to reuse that in the new foundation system. Next, please.

N

This is a section diagram showing uh some of the improvements in the cross-section manner, in yellow.

N

Is the post and beam and the roof structure that will be repaired? The new surfacing of.

N

The exterior skin and then the needle beams that will be used to lift the structure. I.

N

Want to point out that all of the exist, all the existing structure will be repaired and.

N

Stabilized prior to lifting the building itself and then into its new location. Next, please.

N

Foreign, so with that prior to uh you know, I should say after the stabilization of the structure and.

N

And, uh along with relocation, uh we're also recommending an exterior renovation, as per.

N

The design guidelines listed on the slide and an interior renovation that will include mothball.

N

Standards until future uh phases of work are commence for the interior and that's obviously.

N

Not a part of the the application is the future interior renovations as well. Next, please so! I'm.

N

Going to do now is I'm going to walk you around the building with some of the minor changes in.

N

Some of the the finishes that we're looking to do around the exterior of the building and we're.

N

Pairing that drawing with an elevation to put some context between the two, this is the first.

N

Slide, which is the west elevation, I'm just going to sort of point out, the west door will remain.

N

We're looking to remove some of the wood panels that exist along the edges, all of the shingles and.

N

The painted wood corner boards were moved in order to do the structural improvements, because some.

N

Of the headers are are of the, I should say the post and beam and the headers along the windows.

N

Are very close to that structure. It's anticipated that the windows will have to be removed in order.

N

To repair the post and beam structure, and so they will be replaced with new painted wood windows and.

N

Casings and sills that will be generally to match the existing and they exist in different patterns.

N

Of six over six at levels, three and two, and I believe, nine over six at level one next, please.

N

I should point out the rake boards and as well as the corner boards, and the trim would be also.

N

To match existing now this is a section detail through the base of the foundation detail itself.

N

This is the future foundation detail. uh What's color coded here in blue is an option to reuse.

N

The existing stone and treat it as a veneer, rather than a pure load-bearing condition that was in the.

N

Original condition- and that is mostly due to the structural stability as our engineers, showing.

N

And so there'll be a concrete steel, reinforced foundation system with a granite exterior with the.

N

Needle beams and the relocating of the structure, the sill plates will allow to be repaired. They'll.

N

Be able to be stabilized and connected back to the structural foundation system and a new.

N

Flooring system will be able to be resurfaced to match the existing on the interior in order to.

N

Be stabilized back to the foundation system? Next, please, this is looking at the north facade. uh We.

N

Basically much very similar to the western facade with the new corner boards and trim and windows.

N

Etc that would match existing in terms of their overall static. I should also point out that we'll.

N

Be presenting to use the green mountain window system, which we understand, is something that the.

N

Board has seen in the past and we've actually seeked uh to to gain a sample that we could.

N

Show you, if that's something that's necessary on the north facade, we were looking to remove.

N

The existing door and provide a new window in its place and that's a photograph that actually shows.

N

A drip flashing above the door which we believe may have been once an original window. Next, please.

N

On the south, facade, uh the the two bathroom doors will be removed and a new window will be put back.

N

In its place and we're going to propose to remove the fire escape and ladder system.

N

That was added to the building at a later point and change those doors back to windows and the.

N

Reason for that egress change is the further the future projections of the building with.

N

The addition would take into account not only accessibility but also egress for the future.

N

Edition, which is which is noted, is not a part of this application at this point. Next, please.

N

And then, lastly, the east facade, uh it's a corner shot. That shows you know the.

N

Window slightly above the lean two, the intent here would to be to uh to provide.

N

New larger painted wood windows in those locations to provide more light into the.

N

Interior and to reuse the opening that exists on the east side, which is at the.

N

First floor and provide a new door to match the west elevation door itself. Next, please.

N

And this is just to conclude, this live, which is a larger, more diagrammatic vision of the overall. The.

N

Overall complex, uh maybe a couple other details just to point out. If you just go back a few slides.

N

I just want to just point that out are the roof system and the gutters and leaders which are in.

N

The application we'll be proposing wood gutters that are lined as well as leaders that will be.

N

Encased in wood to to match some of the historic intent of the details that are there right now.

N

And overall, I think, there's probably some other details that show their.

N

Questions on but happy to answer any other questions. You have yes, sir.

G

um You have a detail on a window um yeah, it's one, exemplary window. I imagine.

G

um It is the casings on it seem kind of narrow to me, but um I'm obviously not sitting in front.

G

Of your building with a measure I assume you're gonna, specify uh casings widths and thicknesses.

G

That match the existing. Absolutely I noticed the existing windows have bands on them. There.

G

Are no bands shown in this model? Are you going to put bands on these also well? First off I.

N

Should point out, based on the discussion that I was observing earlier, the existing windows.

N

uh Have storms and screens that will not be a part of this system uh just to point that.

N

Out and the bands, can you be more descriptive on the bands small moldings that run around yes, yeah.

N

The shingle yeah, of course that's in the drawing it's not on the drawing of the windows. Why? I ask.

G

um Okay, well, it's it doesn't seem to be on the drawing of the window as I look at it on this.

N

Screen just to matt to answer the question: yes, that will be and uh and the side your.

G

Answer is probably going to be the same as far as the sill detail: yeah still thicknesses.

G

I probably don't need to tell an architect this, but still thickness is sort of in many respects.

G

Date, the building, absolutely and uh they've gone through all different sizes. Over the last 300.

G

Years or so, but the modern windowsills seem to be less than an inch thick, which is indicative.

G

Of today, but has nothing to do with the history of this building, exactly down from the from the.

N

Doe report that was provided by the state back in 2011 those windows were certainly.

N

Not original we'll be looking to put back an historic sale. I understand exactly referred to.

N

In the sort of newer windows are very thin cells, these would be historic sales that would have a.

N

Deeper profile to be more substantial, 18 was 16 on this building. I think it's 1812. 1812.

G

They're, probably closer to three inch. If you look at detail f, which is on our application, a 3.0, it.

N

Shows the deeper more pronounced historic cell, but I think we can provide further information.

N

Around that, when, if you're seeking a particular dimension in your drawing of uh west elevation,.

G

Of the building of that other gable end the free gay blend. um Yes, sir yeah pardon you.

N

Saying suggest: you're talking about the west or the east, I'm sorry to west the west yeah.

G

um And one of the drawings it shows a protocol of some sort having been built there.

G

Can you that you're proposing to build on it? Can you get back to the west facade nick, please.

E

Which one's the way uh there nope one more! I have a two more one more that right. There.

N

Yeah uh portico, uh okay, that's the photograph of! What's there now, but in terms of your proposal.

G

Because that's really what we're talking about, we I'm, I don't believe we're proposing a portico.

N

uh I'm actually, okay, certain we're not, but um in the and I don't know where the.

G

Drawing the numbers are in the drawings to refer to. Okay, I have a number six.

G

Shows a big green lump where the lawn is number six.

B

Yes, oh and the master plan, uh you know, honestly, it's just a plan that was given.

G

To me, okay yeah, I can't tell one from another. It says six on it. Six way, we'd see that it's.

B

It's got the future phase with the stage. The bottom right is the numbers which one.

A

Feel like 17. all right, yeah, okay, I I understand so yeah there you go. That's.

N

Not a part of this application, okay, so in the, if you go back to slides nick, please.

N

Oh you caught me on that one yeah all right is that that is yeah like no. No, this is just showing.

N

The larger vision, which is again not a part of this application that has something to do with an.

N

Airlock, which is a possibility, but not something we're considering at this point, comment about that.

G

If you're interested it's a work session, so I can just have an opinion yeah. um uh It seems like not.

G

The facade that I'd want to show toward the street okay, where everyone goes by, not just your patrons.

G

Absolutely thank you if I could, before we leave david's questions. The um very good observation.

J

About the uh the window detailing- and we had this conversation just two days ago- about the shingle.

J

Mold itself, if you do look on um uh sheet a3.00 the window details it talks about, I mean it's like.

J

It's clear that the um I got it yeah, the shingles, the single plane versus the casing: plane david. Yes,.

J

I'm sure you're well aware of this. A building of this age. The casing is the single face, is proud of.

J

The casing and the shingle mold has to go around the perimeter of the casing. Everybody to stop for.

G

The size in order to cover up the butt ends of the shingles we plan on putting them right back.

J

The same exact way with all new wood yeah and just and just because I want to make sure that.

N

You feel comfortable that we had wrote written in on detail a on that a30 is that we had referred to.

N

It as a typical one by painted wood, casing and molding to match existing, and that is the band.

N

Excellent okay, so we've got that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any other questions here for ever.

J

Questions, if I could just point one thing out when we talk about the rate, the the lifting.

J

Of the building, I realized we didn't, we didn't mention it. This is a great slide to to elaborate.

J

On it the floor, let the first floor level of shot aligns perfectly now with the left closer.

E

To the mic, you've got to speak closer to the mic that one there, for instance, you're not getting.

A

Through how's this this one- oh that's really too much the the first floor level of shafe.

J

um Will be almost, is it exactly aligned? Is it the same exact elevation? It's close, it's the shape is.

M

The temperature, so in basically the floor levels of both these buildings are going.

J

To be the same, the first floor level, so it's not going to we're, not we're not towering over.

J

um Chief um with sean now, even though it is a much larger building and remember all of.

J

The ground is coming up with it, so there won't be a um a noticeable difference in.

J

Height when you're standing on grade and actually uh would you mind uh nick just.

N

Going back to the section, if this is helpful, um the detailed section at the foundation.

N

Forwards please yeah.

N

One one more, I think, yeah here, one more all right, one more that it's more huh one more time.

E

So yeah, so there's a one of the things right now. I think everyone knows this when you look.

N

Around the perimeter of the building the grade is moving around and it's actually within eight.

N

Inches sometimes coplanar with the wood shingles, which is dangerously close to the sill, which is.

N

Causing rot and when you're in the in the in this basement spaces carlos could attest to.

N

You'll see that there has been some sill plate, replace replacement, and so what we're doing is.

N

Going to be really working to a much better situation where we can expose the stone right.

N

Get to an adequate dimension of at least a foot or eight inches at a minimum and that'll. Allow that.

N

The wood uh sill plate to sort of stand. You know more uh protected against the elements over time.

A

So I've got a question I I noticed I'm looking at this cross-section of foundation. uh I see.

A

Something on the inside of the sill I with an apparent bolt fastener going into maybe.

A

The old sill is that what that is what I don't see is a fastening, the sills to the foundation.

A

Because what we would hate to see is the shaw floating off its foundation yeah. We.

N

We're definitely not interested in that either. So there is a it's. It's probably harder to read.

N

And I can understand where the question came from, if you see the diagonal line, if you blow.

N

That up, yes, thank you and you see the diagonal bar. There is going to be a bar, that's going to.

N

Run through the sill and be bolted down, and that's what that diagonal line is embedded in.

N

The in the the stone and concrete so the granite will be reinforced and connected to the concrete.

N

Foundation and the bars will be connected and looped together. So yes to answer your question.

N

The building will be held down to just the cement or no to the strap structure itself.

N

Integrally tied and connected granite also to the foundation system as a whole as a whole. Okay,.

N

Very good, and just their second question was the additional sill plate that may have to do.

N

That's a provision because it may have to do with the extent of damage of the sill plate.

N

And to stabilize that, and that's just a sort of an additional optional detail that may have to occur.

A

Okay, thank you all right. So we've got the shawl being lifted and moved 80 feet.

A

Would anybody in the public like to speak about this project.

K

Good evening elizabeth bradder property owner 159 mcdonough street, this all sounds great on paper.

K

As someone who owns property on both sides of the mill pond, the most important thing to remember.

K

Is that the piscatica river is tidal, and you can't really fool mother nature, which is proven by the.

K

Bartlett street railroad trestle, which often floods, even though many engineers have decided.

K

This is the way to go. My concern is the flood zone. Level is ae2, I'm sorry is ae8 and they're bringing.

K

It ae8 means that you need to have at least nine feet to protect whatever you're doing and they're.

K

Bringing it up to 10, which is a cautionary thing to do, but my biggest concern is, if you.

K

Look at the flood maps that I gave you um when you receive them. They have these beautiful, blue.

K

Areas and they show that the water street area is exactly what they said. It's going to flood.

K

But then, if you look across the street at prescott park, it's also going to flood. So here's where my.

K

Concern comes up. Is we're going to spend a lot of money, we're going to rebuild the shaw, we're going.

K

To move it 80 feet closer to another flood zone, we're going to raise prescott park up by 10 feet.

K

We're going to put some kind of fancy drainage in there. I'm sure we'll talk about that attack.

K

um But then it's going to sit higher than strawberry bank, another very historical area.

K

So I'm not really sure what's going to happen in regards to that, but I think it's something.

K

That needs to be talked about. This is the historic district commission, strawberry bank is.

K

The historic area just to put it out there, um the other thing I would like to talk since we're going.

K

To talk about rebuilding the structure is that a lot of the buildings in portsmouth I've been.

K

To many of these meetings just so you know I go to all the meetings for everything I'm interested in.

K

um And that's the removal of fire escapes because we don't need them anymore.

K

But to me those pieces are a big, it's kind of like having a phone. You know a regular phone.

K

In your house and when you go to museums, they often show phones that they had when. I was a.

K

Kid you know the little dial-up thing and to me, a fire escape fits right in there with the.

K

Phone, we constantly take them off because we don't need them. But to me that's an important piece of.

K

History, why did we all of a sudden start putting fire escapes on all these buildings important.

K

Because lots of places burned down now we're flooding them instead, but I think the fire.

K

Escape should be preserved if it's good enough, I haven't really looked at it closely, but it's.

K

Something to consider, but anyway, I think that that um this is where you worrisome to me about what I.

K

Understand about water, having lived next to the north mill pond, having watched basements filled.

K

Up, having done everything in our power to try to protect our property from that and having seen.

K

What boston looks like now? What um miami looks like now? Everybody's tried to fool mother nature.

K

But if our goal is to preserve the historical part of portsmouth, the shah, according to the.

K

To the anthonyum was built in 1806. and it's one of the first, the last one of the three.

K

Remaining industrial properties in portsmouth, I think we really need to think about the whole.

K

Picture before we get excited about just doing one piece, because if we raise that up and save.

K

The shaw, but we end up flooding the thing while we're going through phase one and now.

K

We have phase two and three to do. Those are going to be time periods, so I think we need.

K

To think about the whole picture, thank you all right. Thank you. Anyone else in the public.

F

Hi, I'm so starry and I live at broad street. I read over these plans last night or monday.

F

Night, my question is: what are the guidelines for um what percentage of a building still has to be.

F

Original part remain to make it historic. So if we're ripping everything out and the post and.

F

Beams, which I know is what makes this important part of it and majority of those have to be.

F

Replaced- and I I don't- I didn't see anything about what the age of the outside was of the.

F

What are the not the clear boards or whatever is on and how, how far back that goes if it.

F

Goes back to the original 18 . you're about 20 years old, maybe 25. really! So I guess, as.

F

A citizen, I'm just wondering you know, what's the what's the line before we're just saving a.

F

Part of the building and recreating it. So that's my only question because I know when I lived in.

F

Maine we had to have a lot more than that. um I think you had to have two sides in the foundation.

F

Remaining to make it historical and worthwhile repairing. My second point is, as co-chair of the.

F

Cemetery committee- I hear about historic. Well, our committee gets to be the most historic because.

F

That graveyard right next to a point of graves, the oldest grave in there is 1621.. So um while.

F

I appreciate all this historic. I want to be the advocate for our historic cemeteries, which it's.

F

Not anyone's fault but in the last hundred years have been totally ignored. We now have a group.

F

Of people together, who really do want to restore and preserve the history, that's sitting in there.

F

In all six of them cemeteries, unfortunately, um three of them are all water related. The north and.

F

Union sit on the north mill pond and we have to. We have a application out now to get the sea walls.

F

Repaired, the friends of south end came to one of the meetings and peter rice asked our committee to.

F

Look into repairing the stone wall that sits right next to all this area that we're talking about.

F

And fortunately, um this fall wesson is going western is going to do some geo testing to find.

F

Out exactly how high the water level is there, because we have a lot of headstones that are.

F

Really recessed down in there and their wall at that point is almost level with the street. At this.

F

Point so, unfortunately, we didn't have a committee earlier because I would have advocated for.

F

Point of grace be included in all this master plan. I mean we're talking about saving history. Well, you.

F

Know 500 yards away is one of our most historical places in town. People come from all over the world.

F

To visit those sites and learn about things, so I'm just shamelessly advocating for the cemetery.

F

Committee to be included or noticed about things going for forward, because I talked to nick way.

F

Back when this started, we do fall under your your, uh whatever your guidelines or what have you and.

F

I don't know that the city has any guidelines, what's going to happen to historic cemeteries, so.

F

I just want to put that out there at this point in time too. So thank you for listening to my history.

F

Of our cemeteries- and we have seven of them, so thank you very much all right. So anyone else.

A

No engineering, please all right. I wish I'd gone to school for that um elizabeth grater, 159, mcdonough.

K

Street that house, on the end is, is the chief house, the one that sits on the dock almost is.

K

That correct warehouse- yes, it was put there in the in the late 30s early 40s. Okay, is that one.

K

Going to be rescued as well, it's already above the title, flood limits, and so it meets the same.

G

Code, so to speak, that they're seeking because they were saying it's going to be at level. But I didn't.

K

Know if that one was going to be raised as well, no, no, no plans all right! Thank you all right. It's.

J

Worth noting, the master plan does call for some attention to be given to the to the safe as well.

J

At some point in future phases, there'll be some um there'll, be some some work done to the shape to.

J

Preserve it, it's just purely preservation work, but it's not part of this phase. Yeah, it's pretty low.

A

Yeah, okay- oh excuse me, I just my name is beth marges and I live at 24 marcy street. I'm a member.

I

Of the committee with tom, I just want to address the last point about the point of graves just for.

B

uh Just to clarify the record point of graves is not within the geographical boundaries of prescott.

M

Park, that's why it's not included in the master plan, and there was a point in the 1960s where the.

M

City tried to use funds from the trust fund for point of graves and they got their hand slapped.

M

By the charitable trust unit of the attorney general's office, so that is why the prescott.

B

Park master plan is confined to the area that is prescott park. Okay, thank you for that information.

A

So if that's it from the public, uh I guess I'd.

A

Hear some kind of motion: oh wait, a minute I'll close the public hearing and then have a motion.

B

I moved to approve, as presented I'll second, that I believe the purpose and intent.

B

Conservation enhancement, property values and it's um relationship, historic and architectural value.

B

Of existing structure, very good, all right, all those in favor say aye aye aye against.

A

Okay, get going. Thank you. This needs to be done.

B

A

And you look at uh 404 miners uh petition of 490 islington street condominium association owner.

A

For property located at 490 islington street unit 2, wherein permission is requested to.

A

Allow new construction to an existing structure at a skylight over an existing bathroom as per.

A

Plans on file in the planning department said: property is shown on assessor map 156 as lot.

A

1-2 and lies within characteristics, 4 dash, l2 and historic district. Hello. Please introduce yourself.

A

Sir, my name is kelly mumper and I'm uh it says owner I'm actually representing the contracting.

O

um With osprey building company and my husband matt is the uh the carpenter on the job and uh he.

O

Is uh the co-owner of osprey and um we're looking to get historic district commission approval for.

O

Adding a skylight to a bathroom renovation, we're doing on a third floor, attic space.

O

um Our goals are to design a bathroom, that's really nice for our customer and one of those.

O

Key factors to making a bathroom really nice is natural light and due to the roof lines of the.

O

Third floor attic space, there's no option for a wall mounted window, so a skylight is.

O

Really our only option we do want to meet the historic charm of portsmouth. That's something.

O

We really want to take into consideration so we're we're placing this window on the back.

O

Side of the building, you can't see it from columbia, street or from islington street.

O

And we also want to fit into neighborhood uh the other windows in the neighborhood and so.

O

If you look to the back of this building and to the right side, they both have skylights.

O

Deck mounted the same color, so we're looking to match that as much as possible and I've.

O

Included a picture of those neighbors houses as well in the appendix on the back number three.

O

And um let's see if there's anything else, skylights placement in the back, I just added.

O

The size of the skylight is 21 by 38. and again it's going to match the the roof color black and.

O

That's pretty much all it's not too complicated as what we've seen tonight. It's just the skylight.

O

But uh I want to hear your thoughts all right. Well, thank you for uh complete application.

A

Does anybody like to speak to this motion to approve? I have one one question: if you don't.

G

Mind is there an option? You've got an arrow that shows where, on the plane of the roof, this.

G

Is going, is there an option to center it over the window? That's existing in that sidewall. um That's.

O

Definitely something we can look into. The main thing that we were hoping to do is not change.

O

Anything structural to the roof, uh these roof, uh the roof uh ridge, I'm sorry framing framing the.

O

Framing is um about 24 inches wide, so we were hoping to just uh plop it into the existing.

O

Framing and not have to reframe um up there just for customer savings and we were had an inspection.

O

With our building inspector and explained him our goals already for the um for this window, so.

O

You just need to meet with him again if you were going to do any more structural, framing changes.

A

um So anyone in the public want to speak to this.

A

I'm going to close this public hearing and look for a motion move that we approve this.

I

As presented second, all right, all those in favor I'll find something in there. Yes, screening.

I

um No screening um uh the uh let's see.

I

Conservation, enhancement of property, values um and.

I

um Compatibility of innovative technologies and surrounding properties, okay,.

A

All right, all those in favor say aye aye aye against. Thank you appreciate it. Thank.

O

You I'm sorry, you had to wait till nine, but look at all the fun you had.

B

Yeah crazy: we should charge money for these shows yeah. I think we could.

A

Okay, now we need to let john find where we are now.

A

147 147 yeah congress, okay, requested work session public hearing requested by lucky 13 properties.

A

Llc for property located at 147 congress street, wherein permission is requested to allow new.

A

Construction to an existing structure construct a one-story addition. As for plans on file in the.

A

Planning department said property is shown on assessor map 126 as lot 4 lies within character.

A

District five downtown overlay and the historic districts so who's here to present good evening. My.

P

Name is rob harbison from market square architects here in portsmouth, and we are here representing.

P

The owner of this property this evening, I know you've, been mostly seeing sarah and she's off.

P

Doing something fun with her family this evening, not this fun, no but anyway, so so, sadly, you have.

P

To deal with me, um I know this has been here a few times and I think everyone is familiar with.

P

The property so I'll move fairly quickly for the through these first few sheets. But if you want.

P

Me to pause just stop me, so the first sheet is is just a locust plan. The second shows uh photos of.

P

The existing conditions in general, the existing awnings, are being removed and otherwise most of.

P

The openings that will be connect, the addition to the existing building will be internal. The.

P

Addition is going where that the landscaping is alongside the building. At the first floor.

P

The next couple sheets, three and four show those components that I just described: being removed.

P

And I think we get up to page six and that's where we have the renderings. There are a couple changes.

P

Here and we can either stay here or go to the elevations if you would like, but the biggest.

P

Item is the thickness of that horizontal band, the canopy that runs around the frame of the building.

P

I think one of the comments um that commissioner ryan had last last month was about the weight of.

P

That and that it felt thin. I think that was a very helpful comment for us. We sort of played.

P

With changes of that thinner and thicker- and I think this was kind of that happy landing spot.

P

Where, beyond this, we felt like it started to get too chunky, but this gave us enough depth that it.

P

Had more weight that we we felt like it fit better on top of those vertical uh plasters that we have.

P

um Without being too heavy and and gave us a second trim band, that created an extra.

P

Horizontal line to kind of accentuate that curve- I know another item that was spoken about last.

P

Month was the color of those verticals and I think we've landed on the side that should be.

P

Lighter rather than darker- and I think I don't know if there's really a wrong answer- they're.

P

Just two very distinctive approaches: if they're darker, they become much more part of the figure.

P

Of the windows, and during the day the windows themselves will read as very dark, very similar.

P

To the windows that you see in the building beyond at night time, obviously they'll be illuminated so.

P

It's a different approach for us because we have such a strong horizontal base and such a strong.

P

Horizontal top, we felt like it was important to have that middle, be something to break it up. So.

P

That you read that vertical element marching along to break up the length of that um and so.

P

That's why we felt like that warm gray- and this is a sarah brought this last month as well, but this.

P

Is that the color of that, so it's it's a light gray yep. Is this a material that is not going to.

I

Be painted this would be proposed as a painted hearty okay. I was just wondering because paint.

I

Sure um I think I think here it does change it, though- and I think part of this is this building.

P

Is so minimal and for those of you who have been out there are familiar with it. The exterior.

P

Masonry it has these sort of two inch recesses, it's sort of like a corduroy, but in building form.

P

And we've been advised by our structural engineer to try to not touch it as much as possible. So.

P

um So it sort of has limited us and I think in looking at it, the direction we came came to.

P

Was then, let's go with that and let's try to do something that has a has a minimal monarch feel.

P

That that kind of enhances what's there and that's, why we like this kind of sleek, horizontal form.

P

The other reason that we we like the lighter color for those, so that this thing you know.

P

We think along the slope of that wall, as it angles towards the street on the property line. Those will.

P

Become verticals that will accentuate the form of this angle, sweeping around versus something.

P

That's black, where that whole thing will read as an object and they're in terms of lighting.

P

um There's if you're looking at a 2d elevation, you would not see any of the light fixtures above each.

P

Of the exterior entry doors we would have recessed cans in the soffit and then on. This elevation.

P

At the top of each one of those verticals, we would have a concealed led strip that would wash those.

P

Vertical elements we are also proposing a concealed led strip at the brick inset in.

P

The base, so you would have a bright horizontal line, part of the reason.

P

We, like the light vertical there as well, is because there is a thought that maybe.

P

On february 14th it washes red and on st patrick's day it washes green. So that's.

P

Something that's been discussed, which we'd be interested in in feedback on. It could just be.

P

A warm light throughout the year, but that was the the the largest change, I think was the mass.

P

Of that canopy and how it reads around the edge and then we did opt to continue with the direction.

P

Of the lighter colored polasters, so are there any comments or questions on that rob? I've got.

A

A question um so on the original building on congress street, that's apparently the sign ban.

A

That is above your rounded canopy that comes around it. Yes, it looks very awkward. You have it.

A

Painted black, I don't you know, I'm not sure if this is something you plan on doing, but.

P

I think the idea was to get as much consistency with sort of a dark charcoal color on those.

L

That's possible what we're not showing in here is signage, and I think the other thing that that, on.

P

A building like this signage has a big impact, and I think what's difficult for us is, I know.

P

What I want those signs to be right now when we do this, but that's something that's changeable over.

P

Time so I think if you nick, if you wouldn't mind scrolling ahead to the concept images on page 12.,.

P

If you see that west elm sign the thought we have at the front entry of this edition.

P

Would be to have a sign very similar to that that accentuates that curve.

P

We haven't shown it because it's not necessarily something that's part of the htc and also again.

P

It's sort of this dangerous thing to do because, even though I think that's the right place for the.

P

Sign and I would like to think that most people would agree with that- it's a changeable component.

P

And so very similarly on those sign bands that curve continues around for that. First retail bay.

P

And, and likely a sign would be similarly on that band facing back towards congress.

P

Street, as you continue to the next retail bay, it would be within that flat, sign band, so that sign.

P

Band creates the backdrop for where the signage would be. I I just I couldn't help but see that.

A

It just looked very massive: it appears to go up on the windows a bit. It's, um in other words,.

A

The windows go down into this dark horizontal. The way it exists now, there's a horizontal sign.

P

Band and below that there's a spandrel panel and we're actually investigating now, if we.

P

Can remove that spandrel panel? But that's not part of this proposal, because that component is.

P

Currently being considered as replacement in kind, if we can remove that spandrel panel, we would.

P

And then that would essentially, in essence, reduce the size of that dark band by half.

A

Did you look at um trying to cover this striated cement block with some sort of.

A

Composite wood- or you know these modern woods that are not really woods or something else. Besides,.

A

That 1970 cement block it's it's tough! It's really tough, because we can't really.

P

Fasten anything into that is it destruct? Is that a structural cement block, or is that a veneer.

P

It's a structural masonry block. Oh, it makes it even tougher because we can't start poking into.

P

It I've been there so yeah. I would love to you're lucky. It doesn't leak tremendously yeah. So.

P

So yeah, so it's sort of that existing portion of the building is remaining as it is with.

P

New color components yeah, but it's really the canopy and the addition that are new.

H

um I was going to ask a question about the canopy. The top side is this sort of dark gray, charcoal.

C

Black underneath on the congress street side, where it really comes out, you've got that sort.

C

Of half moon shape, what's the color underneath, is it also charcoal gray? We haven't spoken about.

P

The color yet so we've only talked about them about materials, so it would be a flat soffit.

P

Material similar to a painted hearty, but we haven't spoken about color for that element.

P

Yet I think the intent would be that it would be dark as well. So it is, uh it's not a it'll, be.

C

A painted element, so it's really up to you. It's not the underside of the permanent, correct line.

C

Correct- and part of that was, was trying to keep the plane of that thing. As this very.

P

Simple uniform form, so what you really read is the form of that curve in that horizontal band.

B

Martin yeah I'll start out by saying that uh I think there's a logic to this now that was.

D

Lacking before there's there's a rhythm and a logic, it seemed very random before and I.

D

Can appreciate that um I I'm still struggling with the banding. uh I'm sure there's reasons.

D

Why you have it to mention I? I feel it should be a little more bold but you're saying that.

D

You may use lettering, like you see in the west elm example, and to me that's that's more than.

D

Signage becomes the architecture at that point, and I think that if you keep the band at this.

D

Thickness- and you do have something similar to that marches around that curve, I think that.

D

That's the right approach that we agree. I mean that's the value of that curve and that's our.

P

Current plan with our current owner, but when I go away and another tenant comes in right.

P

And that's the that's the challenge we have. I, I would show you something just even if you just.

D

Put the word sign up there just to so that we can can judge it a little better.

D

um A couple things, uh the back is still this back canopy still just unremarkable on.

D

There's nothing happening there and I think it would be nice if, if there was a dialogue.

D

Between your major element and that back sign, maybe so that's a perfect segue. Can we go to the.

P

Next slide, because I want to talk about that too, I think this is an element that we would.

P

We've struggled with this quite a bit. I think we would like to do more and there's a couple.

P

Of you should there's a couple of challenges there. The first is we're right up against lot coverage.

P

And so, as what I'd really like to do, is take that canopy and have it extend in a curve across the.

P

Building to the to meet the building as well the building face, and we just can't we're right up.

P

To where we're maxed out, so what are you maxed out on lot coverage? What's that? Well, the canopy.

E

Is the canopy nut got earth underneath it? What what are we talking about got to be in the line.

P

The canopy part of the canopy doesn't it's got pavement, but even then part of it does.

P

So the canopy, the canopy, is not going to count as coverage unless it's enclosed and supported space.

E

Well then, I guess we can we'll have to look at that yeah, because I think that.

L

Our understanding was that it did so that may give us some flexibility there, because I think.

P

We would like to do that. We would like there's exemptions for projections to a certain distance.

D

um I still think you can do something yeah I mean and still stay in the parameters do.

D

Something architectural: what is it? 95 yeah? You can do something. So here's the other question I have.

P

With this, because I know there's conversations about the top of it and or what we do vertically.

P

So in this case, we do have a ramp below that's existing, that we need to keep for accessibility.

P

That we're trying to work around, and so we do have the columns here coming down on the perimeter of.

P

That so that it becomes sort of the frame or the outside corners of that box, and we found when we.

P

Started to creep that height up, it was the same problem we talked about previously on the side.

P

Elevation, where that started, to look really spindly and weird like taller than it should.

P

Be and the other part of it is we're trying to also maintain the height over that enclosure. We.

P

Have on the side and part of why we've done! That is because, from a width standpoint, we're looking.

P

At that back elevation it, the enclosure, becomes part of that entry entry form, and so it makes.

P

More of it- and I think after that, we're really just trying to be consistent with the language.

P

That we've created, because it is so simple to try to be cohesive and here as well, I think we would.

P

Look to probably have where this is. This is a primary elevation, but a secondary entry here.

P

Would very likely be the same type of signage, but with the numbers of the building. Something.

P

Along those lines so again to to make a little bit more of that entry yeah give it give us.

D

Something right now: it's a bus, stop yeah. I mean to martin's point it. It certainly looks like you.

E

Could introduce a curvy linear form to to that vertically horizontally something anyway well.

P

And that's: I think that would be our intent. So I'm curious to get comments on that, because that.

P

Would be our intent is to essentially take that form where it terminates at the end of the ramp.

P

And take to do a curve to the end of the building yeah, um and I think what we'll need to do is just.

P

Dive in a little bit more deeply, maybe to coverage rules on what we can do there, just something.

D

Unexpected so um right now, we could accept, what's generally planned with the fact that he would have.

A

To come back to to add that curve at a later time, if you, you know, if the zoning allows it.

A

um Any other comments here, one this is our work such thing. One more thing: oh, I didn't realize the.

D

The uh the right now, the beige brick I'm calling it beige. It's not really. It's orange. That's a.

D

Glazed brick correct. I'm sorry, where there's sort of that frames out that the uh the corner and.

P

The roof it doesn't appear to be to me um it's like an or it's just an orange tone, but it's a.

P

Rick should be a stainable brick, I'm just I'm just wondering if that's gonna take paint well anyway,.

P

So we do have we're waiting on like everybody else in the world, we're waiting on supplies so.

P

We haven't been able to do a mock-up or anything of the stain if it ends up needing to be something.

P

Other than the stain we would need to come back, but the intent is to do the solid sting I'm done.

A

Yes, margo, I'm good, oh you're, good, okay, so um I guess I have to close this as far as a work.

A

Session goes any public comments. Yep, you know you, you you're going to have an opportunity.

A

At the end of this, this is the work session. This is the work session, then we'll open the.

A

Public, no, no we're not we're, not voted facebook session public hearing, so we have to do it too.

I

Okay, so yeah you, no no! You just stay right there and you can come right back in.

A

Okay, so now we're in the uh public hearing- and um I suppose you should give us another short rundown.

A

Just for the record books, yep.

P

um Rob harvison market square architects located here in portsmouth here on behalf of the owners.

P

Of 147 congress street, which is the building that is shown on the corner of congress in maplewood,.

P

um We plan to remove the awnings, the existing stair and the landscape bed at the exterior of.

P

The building and plan to provide a new one-story addition along the maplewood avenue side of the.

P

Building, as shown in the renderings and the elevations on file, it has a masonry base, mostly.

P

Glass at the upper level, with storefront entries at the front and back it's against the existing.

P

Structure, which will largely remain um the concept, is to create a modern, horizontal feel with linear.

P

Linear planes that runs along that side of the street and creates a more cohesive structure.

P

And then, at the parking side of the building, there is proposed a new.

P

Canopy and storage enclosure to replace the existing awning to be removed and.

P

At the exterior of the existing building, the major adjustment is that the existing.

P

Masonry piers are planned to be solid stains so that they will be more cohesive with the.

P

Materials of the addition that are planned any comments or questions.

A

No, I think, we've gone through it so.

A

Is there anybody in the public that would like to speak on this public hearing.

K

Good evening elizabeth bradder property owner 159 mcdonough street, if you got my letter, hopefully.

K

You got a chance to read it. Could you please bring up the first pictures of the existing building.

K

What I thought would be helpful is to to look at the building, as it is now.

K

And right now, when you look at that building, it's part of the landscape.

K

So next to it is a I would call it a cream or yellow colored building with white, which blends.

K

In nicely with the white that exists, the back side of that building has brick on it and there's brick.

K

On this building, the building across the street has a another former brick and has kind of a gray.

K

I can't say much about those those turquoise awnings, but they do really attract attention.

K

But, generally speaking, when you drive by that it's it's part of that landscape, it blends in and it's.

K

Part of it. So when you look at the new building the new things that are proposed um other than the.

K

Awning, which I think should go all the way around to the back as you have discussed, I personally.

K

Think that the brick that's there should stay, and if you can, you go to the fancy building now.

K

Now he just said that the there's structural issues with the building.

K

So I understand that so, if you look at it now, all you see on that corner is that building.

K

It it just screams, look at me and it's not in any way fancy or something that it looks like.

K

A box to me so I agree that the the awning should go around and it should go around to.

K

The back and it could get fit so it could have a curve on the edge and just get thinner while it.

K

Goes over the top of the canopy, that's in the back already. I think, whatever that siding is.

K

That needs to go. It needs to have something that has something.

K

Brick shaped shape-shaped. It needs some kind of shape on that great. What they're, calling gray.

K

um I personally would rather see, as I said before, the maintenance of the brick.

K

I liked it before with the windows being white, because the white windows blended in with the.

K

Exterior of it, the black windows just kind of they, you can't even see those black windows have.

K

The same lines on it as the original white, but you can't see them at all. It has no there's no.

K

It's just blah, that's how I think of it. So my suggestion would be to look at that.

K

The stuff they're putting on the outside- and maybe we do that.

K

We already talked about the arch. The idea of the white on the front would be great if the windows.

K

Were white because then they would tie in but other than that it just draws your attention to.

K

The bottom of the building, I think it needs a lot of work. I'm I'm sorry it. It just looks very, very.

K

Blah to me- and you have this beautiful- absolutely gorgeous restored, building right next door.

K

You know, and then you look at look at what's next door it just- and this is on.

K

Maplewood ave, so you come into portsmouth down maplewood ave and then you take it left onto.

K

um State street- and this is what you're gonna see coming down, so I'm sorry, it needs a lot of work.

I

I think, do you have a question, I thought I did.

I

I could go keep going. Is this a masonry wall here, that's blank right here. Next to the y.

E

This big gray yeah, I mean yes, it seems it's like existing blank masonry wall seems like.

E

It needs something, uh isn't it yellow vertical sign or something yeah. I don't know it's odd.

I

I guess I would like to ask for um a mock-up like you're, saying you're.

I

Waiting for the stains and stuff, but if we could approve a mock-up.

I

um Of the stain colors before they're totally put on on the brick, it is a really stark difference.

I

This color scheme is a very stark difference from the building next to it. So I think you'd.

I

Want to we'd want to see what that looks like in in reality. um I remember my question: was you had.

I

Talked about putting lighting in is that part of this. Are you going to come back for the lighting.

P

I wanted to talk through the concept of that okay to get feedback. That's something.

P

We would bring the actual fixture cuts in those in locations all right.

B

Anybody else rick um figure. I think this uh this building's, obviously a tough building to work with.

B

um I I think, you've done a pretty good job here, um given what you had to start with.

B

um I do agree that it would be nice to have that back. um Entryway have a little more pizzazz.

B

Less you know, maybe we talked about looking into that curvature on the on the corner. There.

B

um I think the signs when they get added to the front and the band to the three storefronts I.

B

Do think like, as commissioner ryan said, that that will add more um letters on top of their.

B

Auto part we'll add a more architecture feature and then, when the signs over that that darker.

B

Banding part will make that less, um but I would like to see a mock-up of the stain.

A

uh Don't worry, that was the public yeah, it was the public okay. So I.

B

Guess if anyone else in the public, yeah yeah was there anybody else hang on.

E

Okay, no, no one nobody's raising their hand.

E

um So I'm I'm hearing a stipulation potentially to be considered for a mock-up of the brick stain.

E

Prior to installation, does it make sense that a stipulation be included to require.

E

A modification to the rear on and come back for, admin approval.

E

You know rather than approve what's here, I think it's going to be possible to do it. If you like it.

E

And then, if that's something you're interested in I'd love to ask the.

E

Question of whether it makes sense if that awning band, that you see on maplewood ave.

E

What some people, I think are saying is it could go around the back of the building.

E

If it did, would it be at all more interesting if it terminated short of the corner and came back.

E

Out of the building at the same distance, away from the corner like it would look like it was.

B

Coming through the building yeah, you know just wow, just I didn't know we were going that far.

G

All right, an architecture, no I've been to chicago it's a lot higher. It's too high, though there's an.

E

Elevation, it might not be a peer-supported rear entrance. I mean step down. I think yeah.

A

Well, I I haven't made a comment and I I would like to say that this is a very awkward building.

A

Has always been awkward, as are the rest of them that continue on down congress street.

A

That we're all built at the same time- um I I guess my big question is: why is this edition.

A

Even going on here, that's, but that's has nothing to do with that's, not our purview.

A

But I mean we're looking at maybe 200 300 square feet. If you count every inch of it.

G

The terms of location is awesome, though. Everyone that comes to town goes by it. Yeah.

A

What's it going to be a newsstand yeah florist sell sunglasses, um but that's neither here nor.

A

There uh my wonderings about why I build it, um so I guess we've gone through this.

A

um Let's have a motion I'll make emotions to approve, as presented with the stipulations that.

D

We had discussed two, there were two, the back canopy and then of the painting of the masonry.

B

Yeah you know, I feel that it is defining the fact or that it's.

D

It maintains the special character of the district and is compatible of innovative technologies with.

D

Surrounding properties, I'll, second, that motion; okay, all those in favor, say aye aye against.

B

All righty, thank you. Thank you very much there. It is what.

A

Part, um okay, so I think uh reagan is going home and I think his parents gone already.

A

I know I knew that okay yeah, I'm just saying.

A

We still have a quorum right yeah. You need four we're good. All right take care. Do we.

A

Want to take a five minute break yeah. Do you it's the last last application. I mean if you.

E

Want one please yeah all right: I think that we've got a couple pleasers here.

E

Five minute break yeah. I still like my idea.

B

Okay, we're back.

A

Yeah, I just did it. um What are we on we're on postpones we're on 161. petition of eight dlp.

A

Is this deer street yeah? It is okay, you have to excuse me. We have a lot of postponements, written.

A

On this thing, uh petition of eighth kph, llc owner for property located at 161 deer street, wherein.

A

Permission is requested to allow the demolition of the existing structure and the new construction of.

A

A new mixed-use building as per plans on file in the planning department, said property is shown.

A

On assessor map 125 as lot 17-3 and lies within the character, district, 5 and historic district.

A

Introduce yourself chair uh carla goodnight.

Q

From cj, architects and thomas ballen owner before I begin, I just wanted to.

Q

Just want to bring up this sample of a luca bond that we talked about last time that.

Q

Sure this is the product color. This is the.

B

Most part is this: the base these are the metal, the siding, color.

Q

For the penthouse and for the recesses at the balcony areas.

Q

So I know it's getting to be late, so I will uh just uh walk you through the presentation.

Q

We've added a sawtooth, some sawtooth, brick detailing to the building and we've also.

Q

Refined the window pattern at the radius entry and we've added a layer of detail to the penthouse.

Q

So, looking at 1.0, okay nick you can see that we've added some sawtooth details and refined.

Q

This radial corner corner window pattern and we've also added some sawtooth detailing below.

Q

The balconies at the closer to the pedestrian level and and wrapping around as you come.

Q

Around the building here there's some along the cornice detail, which is also pictured on 1.0.

Q

Moving on to 2.0, this is the building, as it will sit on the lot from an aerial view to.

Q

Just give you an idea of the massing, as it fits into the cityscape 2.1, rendering of the.

Q

Corner of deer street, which is really going to be very impactful view you can see the details.

Q

Of the canopies 2.2, you can see more canopies because the trees are not turned on. In that view,.

Q

um And you can see the uh a lot of the iron work and iron details um that are over the balconies.

Q

uh 2.3 is the view from uh vaughn street, which is now one way, so nobody will actually be driving out.

Q

That way from this view, but you could see it walking the canopy across the back and.

Q

The we've also done a sawtooth detail above the garage doors right there.

Q

2.4 from bridge street, what what detail do you do above the garage door.

Q

um It's on the elevations a little bit clearer. It's that sawtooth, brick texturing.

Q

A little bit more easily seen uh 2.5 is the same view without trees for clarity.

Q

And 2.6 um we have been able to lower this wall uh due to some developments, attack and.

Q

Some additional um our tank sizing and so forth we've been able to lower that wall and make this.

Q

A little bit more uh a little bit less of a level change and maintain the 888 ada access.

Q

uh 3.0 is the plans for record floor plans for record. 3.1 is uh key plans for the elevations and.

Q

Then uh the rest of the three series um clearly illustrates uh the details along the penthouse.

Q

Details along the cornice line of some of the textured brick below the balconies and a lot of.

Q

These details are further design further laid out in section four uh 3.3 materials and more details.

Q

And basically the rest of the three section: it just brings everything into focus and.

Q

Identifies all of the materials banding brick detailing windows, balconies, rails, brackets, etc.

Q

Q

Is a further refinement of the penthouse thing and we're past one there we are.

Q

So you can see the penthouse uh with the luca bond siding and um something is silver. No! No! Yes,.

L

It's the lighting on the um rendering, but it is actually a darker charcoal color. That's that color.

A

Oh, it's not coming, I think part of our part of our challenge is if we make it that dark.

Q

On the drawing you can't really can't see anything at all, so we've got a lot.

Q

Of light on it, we've lightened it a little bit in the in the depiction on 3.8. For that reason,.

Q

Thank you and then on 4.0. We are illustrating the banding detail. The sills header details, the.

Q

Cornice um details, as well as the penthouse eve uh and the window grills and again the window.

Q

Grille installation 4.1 shows balcony projecting 18 inches, also the ventilation railing, which is.

Q

Very similar to the balcony railing uh canopy details that we discussed last time wrapped.

Q

In the aluminum composite panel, the custom wrapped uh canopy details and elevations on 4.2.

Q

4.3, our iron custom iron insert canopy detail for the balconies, which is shown in detail. This really.

Q

Pretty much one and four one, two and four the bracket is for the rail side is shown in detail.

Q

Three and then moving into materials in section five, we have the folding doors at the penthouse.

Q

We have the glazed garage doors and the sliding glass doors in the balcony areas.

Q

The standard brick and accent brick and this much lower retaining wall now.

Q

And the metal fencing we've reviewed in numerous work sessions.

Q

And then we have standing seam roofing, a glass canopy detail, clad and graphite mica.

Q

And then we'll have a powder coated aluminum mesh panel, um which will also be custom.

Q

uh The storefront will be conier on the first floor. Only colby's will be second floor and up.

Q

And then we just have the reference materials in appendix a does. Anybody have any questions.

Q

Comments yeah: can you go over the whole thing again.

A

I mean you were whipping, I move very quickly. You certainly did right. We.

Q

Have seen a lot of this, but I do want it all right into the record, as you say,.

A

Any questions, a quick question: uh you were struggling with a car entrance uh situation.

G

Has that been resolved, we are still pursuing this point of entry. The discussion is ongoing.

Q

At tech, but at this point we are moving forward with the current location and.

G

Associated to that same spot on the building um is there. It seems like the one place that.

G

This whole thing in terms of the control that you've got over the site, the controller you.

G

Get over the building one place that falls apart is where public service centers into.

G

The mix is there anything that can be done with the the two big green boxes.

Q

We are still looking at that. There is a lot of um equipment on that corner uh and there you.

Q

Know how it is, you know how the psn, the public utilities conversations go. um We want to move.

Q

Forward with this, we know it works, but we are working to improve this layout and situation.

Q

um And we heard you all loud and clear at the last meeting that you know we would definitely either.

Q

If we didn't did and were able to abandon this location, we would not be putting it.

Q

On deer street, the the if you're, stuck there correct if you're stuck there, what do you do.

G

Is there any kind of screening or anything that can be installed, even if it's temporary, so that.

G

It can be removed for them. hmm um I know they have all kinds of rules and they're entitled.

G

To I don't want to touch the electricity anyone anybody else here does right right.

Q

um I don't really know what they're I mean you get an idea of what it's speaking about. No, I.

Q

Know what you mean, I'm not sure exactly how they're going to be facing how what.

Q

Are they going to be in an l shape? Are they going to be one behind the other um they're.

Q

Still because one of them may actually go away, we're hoping um so, but we're trying not to be.

Q

um Held up by that particular item just to say I I I'm not going to prejudice my opinion.

G

Of the project and the basis of that, but I would love to see you come back. Thank you.

A

So I remember when public service put those units in there and the big discussion is.

A

Should we screen them or not, and at that point we decided not to thinking that the the fact.

A

That the screening would be just as offensive as the units themselves and maybe attract vandalism.

A

There was some talk. I thought that they were going to put bushes around them.

A

And they never did. I think we need to paint them black.

G

Something must there must be some remediation for a public art on them. Yeah anyway, yeah.

A

So any other questions concerning the building. I just make some comments comments. I uh you know I.

D

Think you've arrived and uh you know I think everything looks right. It's uh your signature.

D

Elements, I think, took a lot of massaging, but I think he got there and um you know I I think the.

D

Addition of the sawtooth brick, adding some texture and detail to the prick work goes a long way. I.

D

Think it's uh it's very eye-catching and it'll kind of take away from the segmented feeling of.

D

The of the window units, so um I could support this. I think uh you didn't do anything with the.

D

Proportion of the typical window uh we had talked about earlier, we did, you did we did. There were.

Q

Three now there's four and they did get slightly their size changed for a better proportion. They.

D

They just looked better right right that did get changed from four units to three per floor.

Q

And they uh got a little bit narrower slightly shorter. We played with the proportion.

Q

So it's a better, better size, excellent! All right, I'm good! Thank you.

B

Anyone else yes rich, I think you're um yeah I'd just like to say. Thank you. I think our.

B

Work sessions have been very productive and I think you know um I think this building.

B

um I, like it, there's a lot of it all works. The.

B

um The trestles work with the entrance awnings. um I think this building has a clear theme.

B

um I think it's very appropriate for the store district. Thank you.

B

Well done carl.

A

I too, I I think this is just a a nice building. You know it just for some reason. It just sits on the.

A

Site very well looks very appropriate, so is there anybody in the public that would like to speak.

K

The grader property owner 159 mcdonough street, can you bring up the von f corner.

K

So I like that, I, like the salty things I didn't the brick sawtooth. I think this would call I.

K

Didn't notice them when I looked at it and I like the fact that the penthouse is not going.

K

To be that gray, color, it's going to be it's hard to say from here, but it looked like it was at.

K

Least, going to be darker than a big white thing up there, um the sawtooth things are only over.

K

The garage is that correct: am I allowed to ask her, I'm not allowed to do that. I don't think, but the.

K

Saw two things were just added over the garage door and they're also in part of the banding.

C

At the top of the building, yeah there's some in there as well. So you see where that space.

K

Is that is probably there because of the garage so you're going to be coming down? Maplewood ave.

K

You're going to see the historic buildings you're going to see the cemetery you're going to see the.

K

Railroad tracks and then you're going to see that building with the missing space.

K

And to me the the back side of the building when you're looking at the whole side.

K

Is very impressive, but then, when you see that corner it feels like it's missing something and.

K

That's why I thought something should go where that window is whether it's more black, brick or.

K

A piece of art, or maybe even the number to the building you were going to change the number.

K

Anyway, you could put your number there um in big metal that color gray letters or something.

K

It just feels like when you're coming down the street, there's not going to be anything there.

K

um I'm hoping that the landscaping will help with that angled roof there or if the angled roof could.

K

Be changed to a darker color because it takes away, in my opinion, looking at it the way it is and of.

K

Course this is a modular thing, but I really feel like it takes away from what's above it.

K

So you went through all that trouble to make those nice things, and then you have that light gray.

K

Which I'm I don't know if that's going to be what color it's going to be. But that's where your eyes.

K

Go automatically instead of to that section there and I still think the the railings on the.

K

Balconies are a little busy, but that may be safety coats that may be required because.

K

You have those nice um x, things that you have going on there, but to me those.

K

Seem a little bit confining, but that could have been because code required.

K

Those x's to be closed up, but those are other than that. I think it's. Okay, I think it. It's come a long.

K

Way from where it started, and I appreciate all the work that went into it and I hope that the.

K

Landscaping in the back will be a little bit more than four trees. Thank you. You're welcome.

B

I just speak to three things related to the transformer tom ballen owner. Certainly.

D

um So currently the the bigger box- that's out there is a switch. The smaller box is actually.

D

The transformer that runs some of the local power needs in that area, and it's that smaller.

G

Transformer that can go away because we can feed the new circuit from the new, bigger transformer.

P

um We can't paint them black nick ever sources. Told me that many times they're just worried.

D

About overheating, but we can, you can argue, with nick the other nick could ever serves.

H

um The other thing I was told, though too, is so the there's already a granted easement for where.

P

That transformer is, and ever source is going to do whatever they need to do in that easement.

P

um Even for the driveway, we asked them if we could take about a foot of it.

P

Move it over and they're like and their response was you'd have to go to the ceo.

H

Of eversource and they're not going to do it so we tried yeah. Thank you.

A

Well, it's a necessary evil. You know you can put them in crypts, though they do in the city. They do.

G

When people pay their bills for something I don't know yeah it's it's not doesn't have to be the way.

G

That it is so so dave's absolutely correct and in new york city, we'll put them on roofs, we'll put.

H

Them in vaults, with a chimney and eversource only uses oil-filled transformers that can explode and.

H

They will not put them like even even an evolved underground. You'll want everything above ground.

A

Okay, so there's nobody else and I'm going to close this public hearing and look for a motion.

D

I'll make a motion to approve, as presented very unusual, bear with me.

B

uh Okay, rich is seconding all right. All right, you get the staff report in front of me.

D

Is a it conserves the and enhances the property values and is consistent with the special and.

D

Defining characters of the ceramic properties, all right, very good, so all those in favor say.

A

Aye aye against you have your approval, shovels in the ground. Folks.

A

D

G

um Luke, I am your father motion to adjourn seconded all those in favor aye again.