City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Land Use Committee, 14 Mar 2022

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 3.14.2022 Land Use Committee

Description

3.14.2022 Land Use Committee

A

Good afternoon, everyone welcome to our march 14th session for the supported market work group. This.

A

Group is going to be taking a look at several different things and get my notes up and running.

A

Sorry we were a little late getting started, but we are here now and ready to go.

A

And we have our agenda all right, so we I had sent out a bunch of information which.

A

Talks a lot about um rsa 79e and some of the tools around that also some of the stuff around that.

A

Housing commissions and revolving funds, and also uh stuff about.

A

Up and coming legislation that will do housing opportunity zones, so those are just some of the.

A

Things that I would like us to start to formulate and put into a framework that.

A

Allows us to move forward, one of the things being that we do actually have an approved.

A

Housing committee that was formed many years ago and created the housing policy that now directs.

A

Us, but it hasn't had any members on it or actually doing anything. So I kind of think we should have.

A

A conversation about that as to whether or not that should be a committee that does indeed get.

A

Formed and or can gets, has members appointed to it and what that would look at, and so I think.

A

Some of the recommendations that we can make to the city will be part of that. With that said,.

A

The other thing that I would like to have someone offer, hopefully to help me with some research.

A

For this group is looking at the governors of new hampshire's want to give a hundred million dollars.

A

To the state for housing needs, and I think that we could really take a look at whether or not we.

A

Could get any money into the housing fund that we actually do have, but has no money in it, because.

A

That would also help us, so those are some of the things that I want us to continue to look.

A

At and I would be curious about anyone else's ideas around whether or not we feel like 79e.

A

Is something we could use you know? Obviously it takes having those sort of rundown buildings in.

A

Order to put that together, so I think that having a conversation around that would be one of our.

A

First topics: what do you think one question 79e seems to focus pretty heavily on downtown.

B

And so how much opportunity is there downtown versus the rest of portsmouth? So I'm wondering.

B

How broadly applicable, the recommendations would be for portsmouth, it does focus on it, but it.

A

Doesn't mean you can't designate other areas to be part of it and there could be like we're trying.

A

To create these little sort of pockets outside of the city, which was part of our gateway, so my.

A

Thought was, is that we could really. You know it does sort of seem to focus on that, but I.

A

Don't think anything's preventing us from taking a look at it in a larger level? Does that make sense.

A

Yep you know I like to think of an example. You know a totally underutilized section of the city.

A

Somewhere that we could create up and around it, I don't know if we actually have those or.

A

Not but it's one of the things that I thought we should be taking a look at other questions, input.

C

um About the governor's 100 million pledge, um I definitely would would commit to working with our.

C

Our local representatives, elected representatives to um figure out and stay really abreast to that.

C

To that topic, I think that's really well with the legislative committee too, and I think it would be.

C

A good thing to kind of utilize, especially as we're looking at some of these rsas and how we.

C

May be able to use them in the city right. So if you yeah, so if you can get the information on that.

A

And try to come back to us with what that would be good. That would be great there's one of our first.

D

Objectives, I would just like to second that I think that uh it's important that we hold uh the.

E

Governor uh and his team accountable for the fact that there's a hundred million dollars, um that's.

E

Sitting on the table without a without a framework or anything about how to get it out, this.

E

I think it's an important pot of money and it's sort of that's been consistent with other relief.

E

Funds that have come down the pike and- um and he really needs to create that framework. I think by.

E

Putting some pressure on and asking for it uh for some real things that that's going to be important.

A

Yeah, I know it was a very sort of generally put out there as far as the areas that they.

A

Were willing to support, but no right, no framework as to how you apply for it get it. What you have.

A

To do so or what ami groups might be targeted by that funding? That's always interesting to me, like.

D

What it's going to be targeted? I think the state of the state addresses this week as well. Do we.

A

Have tomorrow morning, do we expect him to have any? I don't know but I'll be listening.

A

I will be listening. Yes, it is 8 30 tomorrow morning on zoom yep group in framework.

A

Anyone else have any questions about what was sent out or so for 79e. The enabling legislation.

B

So thank you for the framework around how to get to enabling legislation any any thoughts on.

B

Whether it would need to be a ballot initiative or something put forward um by the council, the.

B

Council can vote to to to get to allow us to do it right. So it does take a council vote. It doesn't.

A

Take a ballot vote. Okay, we are because of our form of government. The council can initiate it yeah, so.

A

It could be one of our recommendations that we want them and to initiate see how this form so.

A

We've invest. We've invested some research in looking at our city and looking at this.

A

Legislation- and we think that we could create some targeted zones for this specific project.

A

For this, and therefore we would then recommend to the city council that they do that. Okay, would the.

B

Enabling legislation precede the establishment of the zones, or do you go forward with here's where.

B

We think this could be most impactful and then we, I think you can do it simultaneously, but I.

A

Could look into that a little bit more? I it's! My vision is that we would ask them to do that and.

A

As part of that, we recommend where we think that would be okay best. You know utilize shall we say.

A

And I'm finding my words and I, I think, prioritizing the downtown housing over the other.

B

Public benefits might also be important as well. If, if they're all equally weighted, then it you'd.

B

Be hard-pressed to find a project in a downtown or revitalization area that wouldn't impact economic.

B

Vitality, so if there's a decision-making framework or something that could be recommended for how.

B

To approve a project, I think that should also be part of the recommendations which I think in the.

C

um The housing plan that uh former council rebecca had put up it is listed that if, um if you're way.

C

In the options to for some of the permitting and all of that stuff to to lean um towards the side.

C

Of housing, excellent yeah, it's our housing policy that I handed out the last time, yep.

A

Well because one of the other discussions, and that you know and I'm talking broader not today,.

A

But is to look at that policy and see whether or not any updates need to be made to it as well.

A

But I think if you guys can help, you know, look at different parts of the city.

A

And figure out where, in the city we are going to could possibly use 79e, I think that would be.

A

I'm not sure you know, and that was a question I had talking to somebody else. They're like.

A

Could I said I would love to be able to enact 79e and use it. Exeter has done a really good.

A

Job at it- and I actually have talking to darren uh there a few times and he has some.

A

A good you know he's very good at explaining, so if you guys wanted him to come and speak to this.

A

Group about that specifically, I could have him. I could he's already willing to come and talk to.

A

Us so I just have to set that up, and I can also work with nancy carmer from the adc to see if.

B

We've had any requests or applications for this as well, so I can bring that back for our next.

B

Working meeting right, I kind of wish this had been in place before the brewery buildings got done.

A

Because that would have been a perfect area right that whole west end would have been a.

A

Great place to have done something like that, so you know too little too late. What can I say.

A

But that's that's yeah anything else about that, not to rush people along.

A

Questions other ideas, if not.

A

I will move on to talking about.

A

So, and I will actually rely on our assistant mayor to help me out because she sits on the legislative.

A

Committee about, what's going on with the housing opportunity zones, the community tool belt.

A

And all of those- I don't know how much you guys have talked about that. uh We haven't fully really.

C

Started diving too much into them, but we have uh lightly discussed them, um especially with the.

C

Changing of the the the city manager bringing up um the expanded economic revitalization zones.

C

um And expanding them of kind of what we can do, um mostly with the legislative committee, we have.

C

Been um real in this also plays with house, and we've been really focusing on making sure that.

C

We are supported municipal at municipalities and what they're doing because a lot of stuff.

C

At the legislative level is removing some of those things, including a big part that I think.

C

Affects this community, too, um is the airbnb statute. That is, that is going forward, that we.

C

um Really believe will cause more of a housing crisis.

C

If you can get 300 a night for an apartment that you maybe get two thousand dollars a month.

C

um Those numbers are really easy to commute to how it could affect our um we're finding some.

C

Pushback from other communities, obviously that um you know don't aren't as tourist-driven and.

C

So they don't see the same fears that we see, um but there are communities like um us, lincoln north.

C

Conway hampton that are really kind of pushed together um and really pushing it as a housing.

C

Issue that this is gonna that this is gonna just exasperate, the issue that we we already have.

A

Yeah, I I agree on the short-term rentals. I think it's disastrous for us if it gets blankedly that.

A

We can't prevent it from being anywhere right or yeah. We've got to at least be able to regulate it.

A

In some way that makes meaningful positive changes. It's not that we don't want it. It's just they've.

A

Never given us enabling legislation to deal with it, that's exactly a larger problem, which is why.

A

It has never been dealt with and then the second point to that is okay. Now we're just going to tell.

A

You statewide you have to, and you know, there's there's the conversation, obviously that we have.

C

What we, what we call like a shadow community of airbnbs that aren't heavily regulated in here.

C

And the ones that have been have really been due to like neighborhood, complaints and stuff. Like.

C

That so um trying to express to the state that we are not against airbnbs. We are not against that.

C

How do you tax somebody on a commercial use when it's deemed a residential use.

C

So there's there's conversations of that. How do you regulate it? The same way you regulate airbnbs.

C

um And think I'm sorry uh b and b's not alien beasts, just bed and breakfast um and really you.

C

Know our standpoint as a legislative committee and as the mayor has spoken is again we're not against.

C

Them it's just. We really want them to be able to innate enact regulations on the municipal side and.

C

Owner occupancy and things like that, yeah, no, because it's really what it's doing is it's taking.

A

It's taking the residential side of a residential neighborhood and turning it into a business.

A

Structure: commercial, commercial district and that's totally against the whole idea of what a.

A

Residential zone is all about in my mind, so I yeah I'm somewhat very much against short-term rentals.

A

They do ruin the fabric of a neighborhood. That's that's! A really large concern of mine.

A

Is that it totally people who are on vacation, don't stay at the house? Don't participate in.

A

The neighborhood, like people that live there long term yeah and you have um no investment.

C

Yeah pros and cons: do it in just figuring out how we how we balance it? Is there any contrarian view.

E

On that about there, anybody saying that it doesn't actually impact affordability or anything like.

E

That it seems obvious, but I'm not an economist, and so I let's look at the economic person.

B

Yeah, I don't so I think we, this came up in an edc meeting where we don't have any studies.

B

Specific to airbnbs, I believe that anything that's authorized to operate as an airbnb.

B

Is doing so under a bed and breakfast license, but as far as impact economic impact to neighborhoods.

B

Because it's covered under that bnb umbrella, we don't have any studies, at least for portsmouth.

B

Specifically that target yeah the bigger problem is the fact the affordability of housing is.

A

As a long-term housing right, anyone that wants to actually live and work in this area has a.

A

Hard time finding a place to live because there's so many rentals that go to short term versus long.

A

Term and then I know in the edc and in the legislative committee we've uh we've used.

C

North conway, as a good example that larger chains like marriott, are actually coming in and buying.

C

Single-Family homes and apartment buildings and turning them into corporately-run airbnbs.

C

And so the concern is that we are obviously a very desirable area. There was a conversation of, and I.

C

Think in the legislative committee that we haven't really heard and wonder if we will hear from hotel.

C

Lobbyists against this, um because it has a direct correlation to them and obviously we have a lot of.

C

Hotel rooms here and a lot in the seacoast and how that could potentially affect them um yeah. I don't.

A

Think there's been, I know this question has been asked at the chamber level many times and there's.

A

Never been really, there hasn't been a concern. Shall we say from the hotels side of things.

A

But I think, with your talk about north conway, I mean that would be disastrous if they came in and.

A

Bought up an entire section of like a neighborhood and started running it as a corporate business.

A

Through that I mean that's just to be vacant, probably a good percentage of the year, because.

D

It's right still recruit uh return on it. Do we have a hotel occupancy tax in the state of new.

D

Hampshire, I'm sorry being new, I'm not sure. If we do we there, there is on the state level. There is.

C

And there has been a fight for the the warden has changed over the years. It used to be called the.

C

Pillow tax now people are trying to um change the wording to just a fee that you know the meals tax.

C

Yes, that the municipalities could much like other cities, you could have a town or a city tax. We do.

C

Not have that in the state of new hampshire, it's been brought up and and tabled and changed in the.

C

Legislation for the last, I would say at least 10 years that I've been following it. um You get a lot.

C

Of pushback from smaller communities that I don't want to say, don't understand, but um I I think.

C

Don't understand the impact that we have um in the cost of our services that we have to provide.

C

And the increased number of fire and police and the toll it takes on our roads and things.

C

But we've definitely seen a huge pushback from called the north country um that I.

C

Think sometimes think towns on the seacoast and on the water are, you know, paved in gold.

C

So we do not have, there is a state one, it goes into rooms, meals and tax, and then that.

C

Is divvied up um not by the amount that you bring in, but by a foreign population.

C

Yeah, so we bring in a lot more but say I think it's dairy has a much higher population, so they.

A

Get more out of all the money that's generated from our community yeah, and this has been a fight.

A

That's been going on between municipalities in the state for a long time, so it's not a short fight.

A

We've made some headway, there's been increases are getting back a little bit more, maybe not all.

A

We ask but from my conversations with the mayor when we've talked about this, I think the mayor's.

C

Roundtable something that was formed during covet, but they've kept going, has really kind of helped.

C

um Change some of the views- and you know in in that, but it has definitely been a struggle. I think.

C

They're trying to rebrand it again going from the pillow tax to you know an imposed fee that you.

C

um You know much like everything in a state you can or cannot accept as a municipality.

C

So we're getting, I think, inches and inches closer, but um there's no doubt I think in anyone's mind.

C

That a a fee for overnight stay one two percent- would change the game here in portsmouth and it's.

C

It's a common thing around the around the world. You go to boston, you pay the state fee and then.

C

You pay a city fee, you go, I was in savannah, you pay the state fee and then there's a city fee.

C

There's taxes on everything, yeah yeah. I think that this came up in um the edc as part of our.

B

Advocacy for getting more revenue back um from from that and the proposal to have a dollar a.

B

Night pillow tax was also soundly rejected because of uh a lack of interest in anybody in concord in.

B

Wanting to impose another tax, regardless of how small it is it's if it's a tax, it's generally.

B

Going to be seen as unpopular so there wasn't a lot of um a lot of support for that approach. Where.

B

The municipalities that don't generate that one dollar a night pillow tax would then get that back.

B

Directly, it's interesting because that's a tax to visitors not to voting residents, so it's usually.

B

Every state usually has it because it's it's it's any any form of tax uh is generally unpopular.

B

Sorry to build a coalition of legislators when, when you're working on something that only impacts.

E

A smaller number of towns, you know with so many legislative. You know right. um It's just.

E

Well- and it's obviously hard to do- I think, there's a fair amount of people in the state of.

A

New hampshire who like to visit portsmouth, so they would definitely be against if you visit up to the.

A

Lakes, because you go skiing or whatnot you're not going to want to pay that tax as a resident of the.

A

State and therefore that's why it it gets shot down. Quite often, I understood it's a pipe dream.

C

We're still dreaming it all right. Moving on back to housing,.

A

I'm going to refocus everyone here, whatever did get past, it could be, and because I've seen it.

D

Very narrowly construed as really just something has to be returned back to generating tourism.

D

In washington, texas, that's the case, but if it is, could be construed to be a tool for you know um if.

D

There is going to be legislation that continues to support airbnbs. Those would typically fall under.

D

That umbrella, if there was a tax and then that funding, could be returned back for the purpose.

D

Of affordable housing, it's just a thought because it sounds like it hasn't been successful, but maybe.

D

Under that, because it sounds like new hampshire has interpreted the use of that tax. More broadly.

D

Than other other states, I've worked in where it's been very narrowly had to be refocused on.

D

Heads and beds- and that was one of the advocacy initiatives for that pillow tax- was for the money.

B

To come back to either marketing in tourism or affordable housing support or something.

B

To support the communities as a result of the increased visitor traffic.

A

Sorry, all right, that's right! I I just want to move the conversation um to the other topic that I sent.

A

Out, which was um housing commissions, um I'd like us to take a deep dive into feeling like.

A

And I don't know anyone's initial opinions just from what we have read or the handbook that I.

A

I got all of this stuff online, so it's all readily available at different websites. um As far as.

A

Whether or not sort of re-pulling up that housing commission is worthwhile. It's statutorily already.

A

Sort of created we have, we are one of the few that's supposed to have one under rsa 674 44h.

A

I think, especially with a master plan coming up, this could be something that.

A

Because one of the things that a housing commission should do is to provide advice to the.

A

Planning board: who is the board that actually, you know finalizes and reviews all the master plans, so.

A

um I think we should take a deep discussion onto whether or not we should look into statutorily.

A

Putting together a housing commission to be able to take a look at that, and maybe that's.

A

Something that gets put together later this year and functions most of next year to gather up what.

A

Input, whatever you know, public sessions, whatever the case may be, to get the idea of where maybe.

A

The master plan moves forward, but I was curious as to your thoughts about that did ports and I.

B

Apologize for not looking this up ahead of time did portsmouth ever have an active housing.

B

Commission, yes, we did, it was formed and what the outcome of that was. The housing policy that I sent.

A

Out and the end result of that housing policy was the gateway districts that we now have.

A

In our corridors and it was dissolved after the development of the policy like what's the history.

B

Of why it wasn't, I, I think it was because uh there was such a change. It leadership that nobody put.

A

Anybody on it or okay brought it forward due to yeah. It was a matter of, I think. That's it just.

C

I think it was a passion project of of a few counselors and when those counselors were no.

C

Longer, on than other passion projects, as we put them, there was no passion from anyone to read.

A

To keep it going, let's put it that way. So it's a matter of just reactivating something that.

B

Has already existed were, how was the membership comprised? Was it mayor appointment? Was it.

B

Representatives from different organizations yeah it's their appointment and uh yeah. It can.

A

As far as this goes, it's formulated by members of different must have at least three, but not more.

A

Than seven members comprised of local residents, it can also have up to five alternates one or more.

A

Members of a housing commission may also serve on the other municipal boards and commissions, so.

A

It can be made up of residents either from like planning board and other committees or straight.

A

Out residents, it's sort of can be and it can be an application process just like any of the other.

A

Commissions that we have, I would say I would support us, bringing it to the to the council to.

C

Into the mayor um to bring that back, I think you make a good point with the master plan and then I.

C

Think with this committee there's you know, there's a there's only so many scopes that we can. We can.

C

Adequately handle, and I think it does make sense um and it did do good work. Obviously, when we had.

C

When, when the can, we talk a little bit about what their charges exactly? Is it policy recommendations.

D

Is it uh recommendations for implementing the master plan more fully? Would they chime in on.

D

Regulatory changes that are before the board, I'm just trying to understand their scope and their.

D

Advocacy role because I would be, I think, it'd be really great to have a group that understands the.

D

Data and is in their advisory okay for sure, um but it could be the scope and we could you know as a.

A

City, I think it it, you know, has a whole thing laid out in the statute and I won't raise the.

A

Whole statute it, but it may do it- can assist the planning board. It could be like a subgroup of the.

A

Planning board mixed with residents that actually take a look at these things on a side note, so.

A

um But yeah I mean there's a whole list of things that they can do. They.

A

Can promote enhance, encourage the development of housing, they can um coordinate activities.

A

Around housing, they they have a pretty broad range between policy they're, not actually.

A

The implementers of probably putting the nuts and bolts language together, which would be down.

A

At the planning board level, but this would sort of gather all that policy, information and direction.

A

And probably started our last master plan and then review from there and take it into that next sort.

A

Of phase where the planning board then puts it into actual words that end up in the actual plan.

C

Because we've now established counselors established this committee, almost like a like.

C

A leeway between plan and board in this committee, as you know, this committee, potentially you know.

C

Obviously, not winds down we're far away from that, but you know there's other things we can do, but.

A

I want to make sure we yeah sort of give the our job is to recommend to the city council right. Yes,.

A

So we want to be able to take all the information we have and I don't say we're making this decision.

A

Today but I would like everybody's input on it and then the next time the land use committee.

A

As a whole gets together, we would make these suggestions that get forward to the city council.

A

That's so thinking about this, and maybe do we want to add more framework to it. I can do a little more.

A

Deep dive reading into exactly what that framework might look like because they they don't have.

A

Regulatory authority, um they don't have power of eminent domain and they have the limited their.

A

Limited authority is to housing right and it's sort of a narrow and obviously the master plan is.

A

More than just housing right, it has a lot of other things, but it would be if housing is a crisis that.

A

We all know it is. It might be important to have that group. Looking specifically at that piece.

D

So I don't want to cross-pollinate these the two subcommittees, but I'm just imagining sort of like.

D

So there will be packages of regulatory amendments that are coming out of the land use committee.

D

uh I just want to understand the sequence because it does make sense, but I'm just trying to we don't.

A

Send amendments we send recommendations, so it doesn't have to be that would be on the regulatory.

A

Side right, yes, we're gonna, make suggestions, recommendations about amendments that are coming.

D

The city council would say, go forth, develop those they'll actually go. What they'll do is.

A

They'll then say great: we want to send that to the planning planning board and we want them to report.

A

Back to us as to their thoughts on this, and they have a public hearing and they do their process.

A

And then they go to city council, where we also have a public process.

D

Where would the the housing board fit into that sequence? Just trying to make sure I understand.

A

Yep, no, it would fit into more of the policy side of things, so it would actually look at strictly.

A

Just housing policies and, in my mind, in bringing it back in the time frame that we're talking about.

A

It would specifically um try to give us a policy piece for housing for our master plan. I understood.

A

Yeah, that would be my thoughts anyways, I'm open to other people's thoughts. I'm not the only brain.

A

Sitting in this room, yeah, could I add, in back, you had read a couple of them, but on page three of the.

E

The statute that uh six, seventy four four four uh the powers of the housing commission um would.

E

Just like to in my role and point out that we do have a public housing authority right here,.

E

In portsmouth we were created by this by by the city, and we don't do any um policy related. um You.

E

Know I can see opportunities to do some advocacy depending on um depending on what it is, but we.

E

Don't create policies to look at policies, we did have a board member who was on the committee. The.

E

Or the commission, I don't know that uh senator perkins had put together. So we were part of that.

E

But if you look under powers I I would suggest that there's a lot of these, that if there is.

E

A commission formed that you would be explicit that who's going to do what. Because, if you see.

E

You know you know, conducting a housing needs assessment, we're doing that.

E

Right now kind of for for the city, but also for us, we are doing advocacy stuff.

E

We are holding meetings and this goes on to say that the commission may acquire property.

E

In the name of the town or city, subject to approval by the local governing body.

E

So that's something that we we are interested in doing also, if there's oh, you know if, if there's.

E

A way that the city you know this is helpful in a way that the city could take title to a.

E

Property- and you know lease it to the housing authority or some some mechanism like that, then.

E

I can see that that would be helpful, but I would just make sure that we're not.

E

You don't have would hate for a commission to try to be acquire a piece of property that the.

E

Housing authority is trying to acquire at the same time right right, and I don't think that would be.

A

The case, I think they would more have the policy create the policy. So if we ever actually do fund.

A

The housing trust fund, they could actually be the policy that makes recommendations to city council.

A

About how how to best utilize those funds right, that's sort of how I see it's sort of I I think.

B

That we should qual in the next larger meeting, we should qualify our recommendation around.

B

Reactivating this commission to focus on policy and remove the fiduciary items that are in okay.

B

44-I at least initially and then determine where that might lie. I don't know it's a big mandate.

B

As as written in the powers here- and I don't think it makes sense to your point- to spin up a.

B

A commission that has some overlap when we haven't taken the time to think about how those.

B

Interrelate right right, I if I could add to that, I think um uh some things that I see like gaps, that.

D

Could potentially be filled by that, and I think they are, could be a very good.

D

A strong recommending board for the uh for the committee for the planning board. But I think that.

D

Within the topic of within the framework of topics just discussed, they could make recommendations for.

D

The sort of housing trust fund should we have funding there. um I also think that we have a.

D

First-Time home buyers program that we have not, I don't know that that has, I think, there's a.

D

A trust that's there for the first time home buyers, and that could be something they could.

D

Recruit and help support recommendations for that, because I don't know that that's actively.

D

Promoted as much as we could be, and then I also think that we are talking on the regulatory side.

D

Of the house about fee and lieu opportunities, once the incentives have been retooled and potentially.

D

uh Elevated to make uh housing, affordable housing the highest prior, you know priority incentives and.

D

We start to see, there may be opportunities that we might want to explore about fee and.

D

Lieu paying a fee in lieu of providing available housing that typically can be a good tool for 50.

D

And below ami and it could supplement housing, trust fund funding as part of a larger capital.

D

Package that could result in some redevelopment, so these are all things that it's always been.

D

Difficult from a planner's perspective about if a developer wants to use a fee in lieu rather than.

D

Provide affordable housing when you might want to pull that trigger. There are pros and cons to that.

D

And so really helping to make recommendations, there would be very helpful. I think.

D

And then, where we have questions about a data collection and things.

D

Of that nature that'd be helpful as well as well. I think, in the meantime,.

A

This group could actually take on the fee and blue aspect of that question.

A

And take a look at that because it can go hand in hand with the regulatory. It is.

D

Yeah, and has that been, we studied whether or not there required some enabling legislation to do.

E

That I have to check with the legal department on it. You had checked into that years ago, when.

E

We were starting our court street project and I believe the answer was there was not.

E

But I could be. I could be wrong about that. It's an incentive so there's no requirement that they do.

D

It it would be a voluntary, and so if you choose to get that density bonus, that you would get.

D

Maybe the extra floor, whatever that looks like to get that you know, so you provide affordable.

D

Housing to get that extra density, it would be a choice. So it's not an impact fee and it's not a.

D

Requirement it is a choice that they would make in lieu of the obligation that they would be to.

D

Provide affordable housing to get the density they're seeking right right. I will check I'll.

A

Check with the city attorney just to make sure, because we like to cover our bases, of course,.

A

Yeah before we go too far down the road, I know we can't have any mandatory sort of.

D

uh Inclusionary housing and that's where, but uh uh if it's, if it's their choice, yeah you can do.

A

I don't you know, item a item b. You can give us 20. You can give us whatever that dollar exactly.

A

Equivalent negotiate a dollar value, I guess but yeah. We can certainly ask and figure that one out.

A

um All right anything else, I think that was most of what I wanted to.

B

I think the last thing is that the establishment of the housing commission would also give the.

B

Opportunity for residential participation and input, which we heard pretty clearly in our.

B

Last meeting was important, so yeah, I think that's another benefit of uh reactivating that commission.

A

I agree, I think, we'll have I'll take a stab at putting together a framework of what we.

A

Might want to take a look at and see I'll, send it out to you guys, and you can give me feedback.

A

For it before the next meeting, I can't guarantee it'll happen this week, but I will do my best.

A

To take a stab at that.

A

All right, so we have goals of looking at 79e a little bit further and um if you guys could all.

A

Just reach out and do a little sort of fact-finding of your own as far as whether.

A

Or not, you see any areas of the city that that might be a good place to do that. The other thing.

A

I haven't had a chance to do yet, but I'm going to is get a list of uh city-owned properties.

A

Properties, I have to make myself notes, uh and once we have a list of city-owned properties that might.

A

Also also go into housing 79e, not specifically for us, but if there was a piece of property that that.

A

Would be a good fit for um maybe we put it on the market and we sell it and use that money towards.

A

Other affordable housing, I'm just making this all up. I have no idea if this is possible, we need to.

A

Take a look at it all. Sometimes it's offered at like a hundred year lease for a certain amount.

D

As an incentive, and then you invite to a request for proposals and then you potentially get some.

D

You know this process. I think you've probably seen this before I've seen that before, where there's.

D

Different uh non-profits that come forward and they with the utilization of multiple.

D

Sources, including federal tax credits, they're able to potentially develop a project, but.

A

That's one way: I've seen it uh seen it used, not just the sale, but then also it can be.

D

It can itself be an incentive, excellent.

A

Any other questions on that, so I was going over our goals right.

A

So 79e we're gonna look into whether or not there's any areas that people feel.

A

And this is, I know, a longer conversation than just one meeting. But if you can get.

A

Together, whether or not you have any specific areas that you might find, that would work.

A

You're going to work on the 100 million dollar, one.

A

And we also have uh next one was going to be the housing housing commission. Thank you. Commission.

B

Recommendation and then fee in lieu research and fee and little research all right. I think.

A

We have our next steps in order anything else you guys want to bring before we open it up to public.

B

I think regular meeting cadence. I know you had a challenge bringing us all together, but what are.

A

You thinking as far as frequency timing just to plan ahead. I know you've got this- is not your only.

B

Meeting it is not. I have several. um I have been trying to figure that out what is a standing I'd.

A

Like to have a standing morning once a month for land use, if we could um it's just so many people.

A

I have to talk to to actually figure that out and get it into our schedule. Do you all.

A

What what would be your preference like of week and day of the week, if you were to.

A

Have another me have a standard meeting that this met come on? I don't have much of a reference, not.

E

Tuesdays or wednesdays, okay, um this time works nicely yeah. This time was good for me as well.

D

Yeah and not first thing, monday mornings, not first thing the first friday so like wednesday mornings.

E

I would prefer not to not to do a wednesday morning, maybe monday monday does monday.

C

Afternoons work I mean, I feel like they work. I I just know for the whole committee, some of them.

A

Aren't gonna I'll have to ask corey, I don't I know rick could probably do middle of the day. I don't.

A

Know about corey um risk could probably do so if I can check in with corey, and he thought he could do.

A

Another time, um let me find out from him uh not tuesdays or just friday, like second friday morning,.

B

Does that work I was gonna say when does the edc is first friday, it's the first friday, okay, because.

A

The second and third weeks of the month are always very busy first well. The second is because of.

A

So you're the first you said the second friday we're the first friday.

A

First friday, every month I'm looking at a calendar and I still can't remember.

A

um 7 30 to 9, but if it was a 9, then we'd already be here: yeah, okay, so you're saying like the first.

A

First friday, if we did first fridays, it was going to be 9 a.m. Yeah, I'm trying to just what do you.

A

What do you guys think about the first friday of the month at 9 00 a.m? I think fridays are usually.

D

Pretty low key day for me, okay, so first friday and you guys are done by nine. We will be done.

C

If you block the room off at nine, we have to be done by nine. That works better for you. I.

C

Think in some ways, so let me see if we can get in for april 1st perfect. That will actually be.

A

Technically, before a regulatory committee meeting gets started, so do you guys want a little bit more.

A

Time in there- and we wouldn't start then till may- for the regular back to regular meetings.

A

That would make it may 6.. Oh and there's a housing talk at 9 00 a.m. That morning.

B

If, maybe you could just do a poll and we could plan for mid april at the earliest for our next.

B

Get together and we'll figure out the right time: okay, yeah, because because may may is a crazy month.

C

For us, too yeah it's budget month, yeah so may is kind of weird. I think we have 11 or 12.. I know.

A

Before we even took office, we had nine meetings in may scheduled. So I'm like it's a crazy crazy month.

A

So there's probably 11 or 12 or 13 at this point and I'm trying to figure out what our.

C

Next legislative committee is, but it's not listed in my calendar, yeah all right. So let.

A

Me yeah: let's take a look at that. I will look at friday's um and maybe it has to be like the third.

A

Week of the month, or something like that, if that it's sort of any friday morning, 9 a.m, would work.

A

For most ever not the second, it's usually planning board packets and I'm you know I have to get those.

D

Out so, but any other friday is fine, so the third would work first, I hate doing the third, because.

A

Then it makes it the morning after a planning board meeting, which is hard on me and all of us.

B

I would definitely say I feel like the idea of the the first after the first time, all right. Let's see.

A

If we can't get that schedule, I will talk to the parties that be and we'll figure that out all.

A

Right does everyone feel like they have their next steps in order yeah, they won't do public health.

A

And so then uh do we have any members of the public that would like to speak.

D

Thank you so thank you. I also am very busy trying to keep up with all the development.

F

Going on in town, all of the information that you emailed me has been supplied to all the.

A

Board members too lovely our religious committee yeah. I thought there were like nine people in this.

F

School. Well, that's! This is half the group right. This is the supported market side, the regulatory.

A

Committee is going to be meeting early april. I don't know if that will be relevant for them.

F

All right I'll sit here because that's where I am sitting all right, so my name is elizabeth browder.

F

Property owner of 159 mcdonald street, one of the things we talked about at the last meeting was.

F

Zoning and to me one of the biggest problems I see is there's a lot of double dipping allowed.

F

In our zoning for developers, and at least that's how I understand it- the zoning experts.

F

Are not here at the moment, or they could be here one of the things I want to remind you.

F

Of is the sustainability objectives should be included when we develop anything in portsmouth.

F

Portsmouth is becoming a wall-to-wall city with lots of large developments, including housing and.

F

We need to remember that that lack of green is going to be a problem later on that we're not.

F

Going to be able to undo once the building's there it's hard to tell somebody to take down a building.

F

To put in a green space, it's much easier to say: let's move a parking lot underground, so yeah that.

A

Seems to be more, this would be geared towards the regulatory group, because they're the ones that are.

A

Going to be actually looking at our zoning and okay, I didn't know we were have two yeah. We well.

A

If you remember for our first meeting, we split into sort of the regulatory side of it to really.

A

Take a look at the zoning and figure out and then this group is the supported market, so we're.

A

Looking at sort of the more the policy side, I'd like to okay sort of think of it, it's looking at.

A

The overall policy of housing and in the direction it's going and how can we through legislative and.

A

Other means do that: okay, so should I save this, or do you want me to finish, um you can finish.

A

If you'd like or we could save it, because I either and I have go, let's see when do they meet, they are.

A

It's very hard to find it's going to meet at 8 30 a.m. On friday april. First, if yeah, that works.

F

Okay, excellent because I was just waiting for one more person to answer me before I put it. I.

A

One of the changes that might happen. I was waiting to hear from no that's all right.

A

That works for me um I will, it might have to happen at 9am. Let me reach out to the group.

A

And uh but I will yeah I didn't realize, see, uh but that's the second friday the.

A

First friday is april 1st right, you said april 1st, or did you see I said april 8th.

B

Oh, I thought you said the first time. Oh I'm sorry, I'm mentally challenged most days of the week.

A

I still appreciate hearing yeah. I would okay, okay, thank you all right. So um one of the.

F

Things I do is I don't prevent development. I think development is important for every.

F

Town in city, if you don't have development, you have a lot of old houses that look pretty bad.

F

I own some of those because I spend my money on other things like the inside of the house, but.

F

What I find is in portsmouth. There are a lot of incentives that really favor development.

F

And that happened because years ago we had a lot of houses that needed work, and so we.

F

Wanted development to come in and to spend their money, but now people want to build here because.

F

It's very profitable for them, no matter what they build, they're, making money in the end.

F

So I think some of those things should be changed, so what I look at is, for example, building height.

F

There's always number ten, five, eight two two one two two see always becomes a topic of conversation.

F

With all of these and one of the ones I'm working on, this is a big topic, but it more or less allows.

F

Them to get bigger, but they get to double dip in the sense of if they're, in the incentive districts.

F

Which is on the last page, so I did them in order the way they are in the book, but really it's not.

F

How they work the um the incentives, allow for a lot of things that involve big growth, but it.

F

Does not encourage any affordable housing, so if you provide a big sidewalk or you provide.

F

Some community space you get to double dip in the height and um the minimum footprint. So if you look.

F

Back to um the middle page 5828, you see that 30 of the property is designed as 30 as community space.

F

And that counts towards your open space. But then, if you go to the incentives, you also get to count.

F

That same thing as your open space, so you get building height as well. So you get width.

F

And height. For the same space. And in the case of um what's on my other sheet. But in the case of.

F

Different developments, I think it's 25 open space in um city, l1 and l2 and in cd4 I believe it's.

F

Ten percent and in cd5 I think it's five percent. I would have to look those up. I wrote them down, but.

F

I don't have them with me and the reason I bring that up is because, if you're double dipping you're.

F

Just getting more space for the same community space, some of these community spaces are in the.

F

Wetlands, where they couldn't build to begin with, but we're given them a heightened, send it and a.

F

Footprint incentive and in my world you could get one either the height or the or the width. But the.

F

Other one would require you to provide affordable housing or whatever you want to call it, and the.

F

Reason I like that idea is because it's great to have a lot of fancy condos, but they showed through.

F

Osprey landing, which was where seacrest village used to be if you've lived here a long time.

F

Seacrest village was a lot of low-income housing together in one spot and what they did is they.

F

Divided it up and when you drive through there, you can't really tell the difference between the low.

F

Income, housing and the affordable housing and the and the other people who have condos so to me that.

F

Seems to be the right way to do it as opposed to creating buildings full of people of the same.

F

Financial situation, so I think we do need some.

F

Houses that are like for seniors or whatever, but I also think that we need to integrate affordable or.

F

Whatever you want to call it, there's always a good political name for it, along with.

F

The people who are more well to do- I guess that would be a nice way to say it. So you can have a.

F

Million dollar condo and right next door, you can have the guy who works in the restaurant.

F

Downstairs- and I think that's one of the problems that I see in portsmouth is that it's become.

F

A lot of well-to-do people um and- and I think, that's great because they really help the economy.

F

I'd like to pretend like I'm one of them, but I have too many apartments to be one of those people.

F

Maybe if I sold them now, it would be great, but um but the other thing is too is that those of us.

F

Who have been the backbone? The small family owned rental units are having to raise our.

F

Rent in order to be able to survive now, because what used to cost me 300 for a washing machine.

F

Is now five hundred dollars? What used to help cost me for contractor come in has literally.

F

Tripled so any work that gets done is more expensive. So now we've had to raise our rents.

F

So to be able to do that, you have to have a balance and I don't think our zoning really.

F

Balances that when this zoning was put into place, we wanted people to come here and build and now.

F

People want here to come here to build because they make a fortune. You know you can sell a.

F

Condo for a million dollars down on the waterfront that when I moved here, you wouldn't walk there by.

F

Yourself on a friday night, so there's a good piece to that and a bad piece and we need to look at the.

F

Zoning very carefully because of that, so those are kind of my zoning and there's a lot more. I.

F

Haven't even looked at gateway since most of the buildings that I am interested in that are in that.

F

Affect the neighborhood that I have property in are um in cd, see in the cd zones, not in the.

F

Gateway, so those are the zoning ordinances. I know the best, but there's more, but I didn't go through.

F

The whole book I didn't have time so that's my story. I'll make sure this gets to the next group.

A

Okay, thank you. Thank you. So much there's a lot of insight in what you just said. I appreciate your.

D

Comments, thank you. When does the other group meet, though uh april eighth, eighth week at 8, 30.? Don't.

A

Don't trust me at 8 30., I yeah now that I know everyone can make it. I will send that out and it's.

C

Such the truth that what you just said is, I feel like pretty much. Everyone has the same sentiment.

C

That a lot of these in in to the counselor's point why she wanted to create this commission.

C

In committee is that we we need to update these. We, you know these were written when we were town that.

C

As I joke that you know in the 80s, my grandparents moved out of portsmouth because they didn't want.

C

You know to raise their their you, don't even they just didn't, feel safe and and now we are.

C

A desirable community and now developers are going to build here, no matter what and now we.

C

You know can be put back into the driver's seat of of that track. I know you're, not a planner.

D

But I think that what you just said about really integrating and creating that really is an outcome.

D

That we have over the years where we've had that's the section of town where all this.

D

Subsidized- and this is the section where that has led to outcomes that are inequitable and that are.

D

Unsustainable and basically cultivate a culture of poverty in some ways, and I don't think that could.

D

Ever happen in portsmouth, but I, but on its basic level, the idea of integrating housing throughout.

D

The community, it's like the rising tide, lifts all ships and it's it's a very good principle. So if we.

D

Did use fee and lou at some point it would not be a universal there'd, be certain conditions that it.

D

Would have to meet because it's a valuable tool to say you don't have to provide affordable housing.

D

You can pay into a fund instead, but we would have to think about how we would use that because it's.

D

As you've mentioned before, that integrated outcome is really the outcome that leads to overall, better.

D

Community outcomes, I think oxford landen is a great example, but I I would, I would say.

C

No, please listen. This is very good. You know I. I constantly always talk about atlantic.

C

Heights yeah right and how our zone and now you could never build that yeah.

C

Where we have the multiple roads, we have some singles, we have some duplexes, and so how do we.

C

uh Look at some of these zones and say we would have planned this proof that we would we would.

C

Do this and then it does create more of that field that takes down the height takes down. You know the.

C

Larger mass buildings and and re recreate that, and then we do, though, have some um places you.

C

Know that you you do people do talk about them on the outskirts. Gosling meadows, we would say, is one.

C

Of them, although they they are up kept, they are good. It does in your mind when you, when you talk.

C

To people about it, that's low income housing. They they constantly think about that. When you look at.

C

Offspring, you don't necessarily think that, even though there is low income housing in there and so.

C

I think you know figuring out how we can use this committee to to copy those incentives in other.

C

Other areas is why I think we're all here. I think the other thing I'd add is, if you look.

B

At atlantic heights, or even panaway manor to some extent, both of those tracks were developed with.

B

Workforce in mind atlantic heights to support shipbuilding panaway manor to support you know.

B

Manufacturing um so I think portsmouth had a hit, has a history of developing tracts of land.

B

To support workforce- and this is our opportunity to do the same here- that's what mcdonough street.

F

Was yeah, then it turned into the worst place. You could live, hey I bought them. I lived.

F

I do agree that there were tracks of housing that were built for specific people and you can.

F

See that throughout history, but I think to mix them up, is really the best way to go, because it.

F

It allows people to see what they could do and that a lot of times. I think people forget that.

F

I lived in the lowest income bracket when I moved here and we went up all the way to the.

F

Highest income bracket and now we're back in the middle um and it's it's doable for anybody.

F

If they have the courage to spend work, 80 hours a week for long periods of time, doing.

F

Things they don't necessarily like, but but to at least be able to expose people to opportunities.

F

I think is really important, so thank you very much. Welcome. Are there any other members of.

A

The public, I know I see a couple of people online that wish to speak. Just raise your hand.

A

No one appears to be raising their hand, so I'll give it another few seconds. But if that.

A

Is it then, I would say we call adjournment and you all have your tasks in front of you.

A

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Everyone.

A

When the meetings will come, I'm still trying to schedule them. But yes, so so this one was listed on.

A

The you know I need an assistant. I know I need to. I got my next meeting. Thank you all right. Goodbye.

A

I need I truly need my own assistant to help me with all these things.