City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Land Use Committee, 1 Jul 2022

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From YouTube: 7.1.2022 Land Use Committee

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7.1.2022 Land Use Committee

A

Good morning, everyone Welcome to our land use committee meeting uh this Friday July 1st, uh our.

A

Agenda might seem short, but I think it's because we have a lot to talk about this morning. um First.

A

On our agenda is going to be our presentation of our feedback from our Adu focus groups, which.

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We got the draft report last night and um then discussions uh so that we can give staff Direction.

A

Regarding any zoning changes what direction we want, the red lines to come back to us so.

A

With that in Beverly, I, don't know which one of you will like to begin go right ahead. I'll, kick it off.

B

um This is, uh in fact, the public involvement summer report. It includes both the.

B

um uh The small focus group feedback, but it also includes the Adu direct uh direct, a.

B

Butter survey says director about our survey, so there's a typo but the direct to butter survey.

B

um We don't have all the results in I believe we have maybe 22 responses at this point, but.

B

We will keep updating that as we prepare that for the city council and we'd like to provide.

B

A little summary of that information- and that's that's the actual spreadsheet in the spreadsheet.

B

So surprising results came through with that, so just to summarize uh both phases and then I'll. Let.

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Nick sort of go into some of the themes that sort of evolved. In those conversations uh we had small.

B

Focus group meetings um between June, 9th and June 15th, we met with previous applicants Architects.

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Engineers and three neighborhood Representatives, um not necessarily people, have a who have ads next.

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To them, but folks who are involved in their neighborhoods and might provide some input.

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About uh what they would be concerned about as we moved forward and then the Adu would direct.

B

A butter survey- this was a list of a curated lists of Butters I, think we ended up sending.

B

Over 200 surveys out, these were mailed to direct debutters only of approved adus. We asked for.

B

I'm sorry, somebody needs to click that I think. Oh somebody like me, sorry.

A

I'm not looking at it, we eat actually a letter, and in the letter there was a link and a QR code.

B

And um I think we're uh well past our 10 response, which is a pretty good response rate for a survey.

B

We'd like to see a little bit more, but uh we'll continue to update that data as it comes in so.

B

We this what you have in front of you reflects the information that was provided to us yesterday. Full.

B

Summary table is provided an attachment C, and then we also have a full list of the attendees for the.

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Focus group meetings: that's provided attachment a uh the gray, the gray highlighted last column.

B

Identifies who actually attended the meetings and then the full list identifies who was invited and.

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Then attachment B is sort of a short summary of the comments we received as uh best we could.

B

Capture them and then we also sent those out to the moderators, many of whom are well actually all.

B

Of whom are in this room today, and if we didn't get your updates I apologize, we uh we will make.

B

Sure that those are incorporated into the final just because I hadn't had a chance to view that.

B

So at that point, I'd like to um just push it to uh Nick, to talk a little bit about the key themes.

B

That emerged and how we are sort of casting those themes to guide our regulatory update.

B

So I couldn't pass it to Luke I'm. Sorry I should introduce Luke. Sorry I should have brought this.

A

Out Lucas Cowan is our intern. He is a third year student at UVA. He is here through uh mid-august.

B

And he'll be supporting some of the regulatory updates doing some work for um for staff to help.

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Us prepare for different types of projects, working on and probably applying for some State funding.

B

For our phase, three regulation updates because there's a great deal of funding available through.

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The state so Nick will be helping us with that application, but he helped put this together and.

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Has done a um I want to say it's done a deep dive, not just into the survey data, but also into all.

B

The approved, which is first task when he sat down, was to look at all the approved ones and under.

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Help us to understand and provide that to retainer our consultant of all the Adu applications. We have.

B

What type of relief they were looking for, so that full set of data I regret that I didn't bring that.

B

Today, because that would have been a good thing to include in this, for this group, but I can certainly send it out, will be provided to our um and there's. There's a little note on the side where we capture.

B

A little bit of that, but that will be provided to our consultant who's supporting the regulatory.

B

Updates as well but anyway, I'll, let Luke talk about the key themes, sure so one common theme we.

C

Heard throughout especially in the Adu applicants, focus group was that the difficulty navigating.

C

The process and where to start there's no real, step-by-step process and a lot of the terminology.

C

Can be a little confusing for someone who's never applied for an Adu before some people even had to.

C

Hire like a lawyer, a lot had dire architects in order to just even get started, which could.

C

The cost of uh just approved, like applying for approval, could go up to twenty thousand dollars.

C

Which was is pretty expensive for an already expensive project, um dimensional relief.

C

Yeah, so a lot of the a lot of The Architects, especially in the focus group, indicated that.

C

The square footage that was allowed, especially for garden Cottages, which is only 600 square feet,.

C

Compared to 750, which is allowed for attached, adus was quite small and was not really a livable space.

C

600 square feet is not big at all, and um they also talked about I mean it's, it's basically the size.

C

Of a two-car garage and then on the right there you know I've got a staff note of when I went.

C

Through the current Adu data of when I've already approved, adus and 17 of the 30 have had a variance.

C

um That have been built since and approved since 2017, which is.

C

Quite a few, um and also there's a considerable cost and risk with this process, like I mentioned.

C

Before just applying could run as high as twenty thousand dollars for land use approvals.

C

And that can deter potential applicants and then there's also a risk that comes with that.

C

You're not guaranteed to get approved if you're applying for a variance. Even if the request is.

C

Simple and a lot of the times um you are going to be applying to a Fair events. Stop you because.

B

That year, we also found that, from some of the responses, both from the survey and from the focus.

B

Groups that it's also a sense of protection, there was some reaffirmation of particularly the parking.

B

Standards and the restrictions on short-term rentals that came forward and then I think we'll.

B

Talk a little bit more about that, but there is also a interest in making sure that we adhere to.

B

Some of those protections parking emerged as a big one in both uh both the survey and the.

B

um uh Well, primarily in the survey but I I would say that, but the dimensional relief and size is.

B

It's a thing that goes both directions, yeah and then the Architects also indicated that.

C

After doing uh feasibility studies for some of their clients, um some of their clients didn't.

C

Want to move forward just because of how risky or expensive the process would turn out to be.

C

Next I kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but the terminology needs to be very.

C

Clear some of the terms like subordinate to the principal structure and architecturally.

C

Compatible are a little vague and that can be bad not only for Adu applicants but for the.

C

City, we want to enforce that code um and then the biggest themes we found throughout the survey so.

C

We got 22 responses out of we sent over 200 uh 200 letters in the mail and uh the biggest the biggest.

C

Concerns for these respondents were parking and short-term rentals, especially short-term rentals.

C

Was a lot higher by quite a way margin at 77.8 percent uh when asked about their concerns of adus.

C

um And then, when asked about like restraction excuse me, relaxing restrictions, um parking came.

C

Up as the highest uh at 83.3 percent and then next and buffers was buffering and separation.

C

At 77.8 and after that was compatibility with the neighborhood at 72.2 percent,.

C

So parking seemed to be a common issue in both these questions.

C

And yeah, both both the survey and the neighborhood Representatives Focus neighborhood Representatives.

C

Focus group both seem concerned about short-term rentals was the thing we saw as well.

B

The question was a little different saying: if we were to allow these by rights, what would be.

B

The things that you would which minimum standings are most important to you, so that looks a little.

B

Different than the second table, which is uh of the potential impacts, what are you concerned about so.

B

This is more of a direct question about their experience next to them and um or what they're.

B

Worried about in terms of the Adu next to them, so one of them is if we were to say these are.

B

Allowed by right, which ones would you want us to be mindful of and the second one, the first.

B

The second table is really: what are the things you know in your particular situation? Are you mostly.

B

Worried about so anyway, those I just want to make Distinction on those two tables. We probably.

B

Should reverse them, but maybe so the data we got showed 18 respondents you had four more come in.

D

Yeah did they change the because it looks like the data still reflects the 18.

B

I think maybe we must afforded the previous batch but yeah we have 22.

B

So there's one more, this should reflect, is am I correct about that yeah.

C

um Yes, and so also so, a butter seemed to be generally positive about adus.

C

um The you should have an Excel spreadsheet in front of you, which has all the specific responses.

C

um There's quite a few comments on there, but in general, most of the comments when given a.

C

Chance to write optional comments about the positive or negative impact of adus.

C

50 of the responses were positive, while 25 were neutral and 25 were negative and then.

C

When asked, if they would, if the butters would consider building an Adu next to their home or.

C

Converting their property property to an Adu, 44.4 percent said yes, meaning that edus have.

C

Had a positive impact to the point where even the butters would consider building an Adu themselves.

C

And there's a little graph there that from the responses we got and again.

C

If you'd like to take a look at the comments, there's quite a few on the Excel spreadsheet,.

D

The comment on number six that about us are generally positive that doesn't actually reflect.

D

What is showing the data most were negative, so if you have, if so, I think that what we have right.

B

It's the second question, I think that we're trying to pull off of rip- and it's basically.

B

um If, yes, if you have an Adu next to you, have there been a positive or negative impacts and.

B

If you go through that column, uh it is I think we have two negative and then some are don't say.

B

Anything and then most either most are positive. We have three three negative, three neutral, that.

C

Say neither and then we have six positive comments. Well on number six, the header number six Butters.

D

Are generally positive about adus? That's what I'm speaking about you've got. Eight, yes and ten. No.

C

um That that's if they would consider building an Adu themselves so that they're.

D

The statement doesn't fit the data, so a Butters would generally not consider building an Adu. We.

B

Might be a more accurate, I think uh I think this is probably the wrong table to put, and this is I.

B

Think, while we're having this meeting is to kind of get this, make sure that it's reads correctly. I.

B

Think the question about whether you'd consider building Adu is a completely different question about whether you're having positive experience with the Adu. Next to you, of course, yeah so I think.

B

That, maybe this probably is not the best table to have right next to this, this statement, maybe.

B

Pulling in a table that reflects the responses would be yeah when I see I'm a numbers guy. So when.

D

I see a Butters are generally positive and then I see the chart beside. It shows negative. There's.

D

A disconnect there well they're not negative about the experience they're negative about whether they.

B

Want to build one, so we should probably replace that table and put the actual table that matches.

B

That comment, so it's a good note, thank you, Rick and just a purely technical thing, where you've got.

D

On the order of 20 people responding, it's it's a by reflecting the percentages down to the.

D

Decimal of a percent you're inaccurately, representing the Precision of your data.

D

You really appear plus or minus four to five percent, with one respondent changing yeah, so.

D

You might want to just round it. Okay, okay! Thank you! That's a good! That's a good.

E

Yeah I do think that question about the butters. Would they actually build one or.

E

Not I think there's a lot of variables that would go into that decision. You know cost.

E

um I, wouldn't want to interpret anything that I shouldn't from that question. um But the fact that.

E

Half and half say yes, I think, that's very positive to me. The fact that about 300 000 to build one.

B

Yeah 200 000 yeah, so considering the risk up front considering these people haven't built one yet.

E

um That there is a huge cost to it and then they've witnessed you know the impacts from their.

E

Neighbor and then there's still half you know what I mean considering it. I would call that you.

E

Know, parts of we'll replace this table and kind of get that cleaned up, yeah and I think we just asked.

B

That to get a sense, if there's interest out in the community, we asked that question of our Architects.

B

And um Engineers as well we're trying to get a census. Is there pent up? You know, interest yeah and.

B

I think what we're getting I mean looking at this table, I think we're getting I. Think there's some.

B

Pent-Up interest and I think we hear we heard from The Architects that you know, as they run through.

B

The process, sometimes they lose folks, it's the they did. You know we did get some comments from.

B

Both groups that The Upfront risk the some of the engineers do some feasibility assessments. That's.

B

A common thing, the engineers would primarily be working with folks who maybe had some um sewer.

B

Issue, you know it might be not on city sewer, it might be on-site septic, and so they might be.

B

Called in so they had a different experience, but did have some experience in other jurisdictions. I.

B

Think the architect group was pretty a pretty interesting group and the applicants I think.

B

Really uh were an interesting group yeah one of the engineers actually said that it could cost.

D

Thirty thousand dollars to go through the process, so I like to go and grab that probably, and are you.

D

Going to take out the names associated with the comments, I thought we did. There was two comments.

A

Under the um I circled that as well the top of one of these Pages, there is it's just first names, but.

A

Yeah, okay, those should have all come out: I'm, sorry, yeah, um yeah, I'm, sorry under the engineers yeah.

B

Remove all those number two just has two first names like circled: that for those to.

A

Go out, I will get those removed before they go to counselor. They should have all been taken out.

A

Can we look at the wording under the state regulatory context? I just think it I understand.

A

What the meaning is, but I think it reads really awkwardly and I think this comes directly from the.

A

State language but I think we could put it more into plain context. Maximum Adu size may not be.

A

Smaller than 750 square feet when you put maximum and smaller all in the same, it's like you're doing.

A

Almost a double negative right: can we just make it more positive, so it's a more direct language.

A

As to what the actual intentions absolutely I think that wording would be a lot better.

A

um Under phase one public involvement number three: we have public meetings.

A

And public hearings at which time additions input, it should be additional input. Okay, we'll.

A

Be invited and will be helped. That will make more sense um and if it involves an addition.

A

uh Other comments, I have are really just more notes that I took as I was reading through some.

A

Of the feedback, um since the four moderators are here, I thought we could each start by.

A

Talking about what we sort of took back from listening to each of our groups, um I really.

A

Felt like on I did The Architects for for the record and um I really thought that the cost.

A

The time the restrictions and the you know those barriers of having to get variances and the.

A

Restrictions that we put on it were some of the biggest takeaways, although in trying to gleam out.

A

Of these people, what other jurisdictions could we look at to really get an idea of what some maybe.

A

Somebody else is doing it better. They were like hands down. No, you guys are doing it better than.

A

Everyone else, so that made me feel like okay, at least we're going in the right direction. Right.

A

We we can improve on what we have, but there wasn't a whole lot out there that they could.

A

Point us to to looking at something that would be better or more helpful to what we have now so.

A

With that said, we don't have a whole lot to go on WE and they were super excited that we actually.

A

Asked their their input, that was you know because they I feel like they're, the ones on the front.

A

Lines talking to people trying to do this, so they get the best idea about how to get things back to.

A

Us so I do think that we need to really look at. You know how we can possibly lower those barriers.

A

um As we're looking at redlining and getting the code, you know adjusted and I thought one of the.

A

Most interesting aspects which I think we should definitely explore. I, don't know if it's possible.

A

Or not, but pre-approved plans that was brought up by someone, because they they do it out in Seattle.

A

And Seattle's Nothing Like Us, but at least for you know a specific Square garage of two or whatever.

A

Size, cars, you know that would be the right size or a specific. So could we have some laid out plans.

A

That, if you do the plan specifically we've already pre-approved, you know you have a floor of your.

A

House, that's the right square footage, you know the and it's not maybe going to work all the time, but.

A

I thought at least, let's explore it. Let's put some thought process behind it, because if you go buy a.

A

Pre-Approved plan, then, obviously you wouldn't need to get a lot of the approvals, so I thought it was.

A

An interesting concept- I, don't know if it'll work here but I know, there's smarter people.

A

Than me, that can tell me whether or not it would work one thing that ties into that. um It came up.

D

During the engineers, discussion was the idea, if it's a staff, administrative review, basically to.

D

Allow this then you're cutting out public input. So if you had a set of pre-approved plans that went.

D

Through a serious public vetting process, where this set was pre-approved, had a bunch of public.

D

Hearings, maybe neighborhood meetings to make sure everybody knew if your neighbor wants to do this.

D

And only this in this way, maybe that could have an easier path versus something new that hadn't.

D

Been you know, the architect wants to have some fun. Well, we don't want to have a public hearing about.

D

That uh that could be a possibility, I wonder if we could get some. You know some of that state funding.

B

For developing someone else, there's quite a bit of funding available, and that would be a good.

B

Process, yeah I think that would be worth looking into because they are. You know some of that money.

A

That the governor set aside is supposed to go to helping communities. You know create zoning that.

A

Would be more, and that would be a perfect process. I was on the housing, interjurisdictional team.

B

For King County included, including Seattle, it was a process, it was a process uh for them to.

B

I, don't know that was a huge public involvement process, but they did hire architectural firms to.

B

Help, uh it wasn't I, don't recall it being a big public involvement process, but it was a process.

B

Where they hired obviously consultant support to get those pre-approved plans, it wasn't moving.

B

The bar, in a huge way there but I, find that we have um a development pattern. That seems.

B

To be more welcoming to adus there, it was about 300 000 pre-pandemic costs for adus in Seattle.

A

Yeah I looked at their website, it seemed like they were mostly detached ones that they had plans.

A

Pre-Approved that you know some small, basically, a tiny house you could put in your backyard.

A

um But uh at the same time, yeah I don't know if what exactly they did would work but I think we.

A

Could look at something along those lines, whether it be maybe not a full blown out design or just.

A

You know you have to have a structure that has these set criteria as part of it. It's.

A

No more than this big, it's whatever and I think then the other things that uh sort of.

A

Were brought up, is you know, could we lessen like setbacks or non-existing non-conformities right.

A

That would allow it to go forward if it's already existing and you're not making it better or worse.

A

Would that be something that we could change the code to allow? So those are some of the.

A

Things that we talked about some of the things that stuck into my mind but I, don't know what.

F

I did the um the applicants and it was. It was interesting because our group on some.

F

Things really felt the same. um One of them is a very clear guideline checklist system.

F

um You know what I mean to to not go back and forth like a handbook or something between.

B

Inspection departments and and planning department- um a really clear. You know, step by step once this.

F

Is done, this is the next step once this is done. You know. If you fail to step, you go back to you.

F

Know, step G, it's just a minute how you might remember somebody said it's like hitting a Fly.

B

Ball to Midfield yeah I thought I need to capture that comment. Maybe in here maybe we will for the.

B

Council meeting because they did say it was like hitting a Fly ball to Midfield when they.

B

Start talking to the city about how to do this, yeah and and then we also had um a gentleman.

F

In our group, who was a builder and said, I had no problem doing this I knew what to do, and so.

F

You know I I took that back and I think a lot of the group took their Five Guys. We need to again.

F

um Make it very simple guidelines for the average Joe? As someone I think said in in the comment, it's.

F

Perfect for Joe I know right, um I, I think to um generally speaking, I think it would be good.

F

Too, to have some type of general cost analysis when somebody goes to the city website or looks.

F

At this guideline hi, you know on average we're finding people are spending two to four hundred.

F

Thousand dollars on these and I think again, you'd weed some people out right away. I think that you.

F

Know publicly, when we talk about adus well, they sound great. There is a huge expense to them and.

F

Not everyone can afford that huge expense, um and so you know, as you said from the beginning,.

F

It's twenty to thirty thousand dollars up front to just have guarantees, but with no guarantees.

F

um There were also a big, a big thing that I think we definitely need to work on communication, wise.

F

um As heavily I think knows, is there was a huge amount of the applicants who didn't know there.

F

Was a renewal process? um Yes, yes and part of the approvals, it does say, annual I know, but part of.

F

The question is, does it need to be annually? Can it be bionally, can it be every five years like.

F

Can it be like a some kind of recorded restriction that we yeah I think that, as a staff, we've talked.

B

About that as being I, think Nick even talked about that that might be a cleaner path forward.

F

But overall the um it was really funny. We had um a person, an attendee in our group, who was also an.

F

Architect, and so it was interesting to see their, you know double side of it, because you know they.

F

Had questions about what codes we were using, which ones the state had adopted, you know some.

F

Of them, were you know a decade prior and hadn't really been updated on the on the state level.

F

um So that was a really interesting surprise. I think um to hear to hear that and so, but I.

F

Think, overall, um while there was some general frustration, mostly again in the guidance of.

F

How to complete the project if you had no prior background? um Most of the feedback was positive.

F

You know I mean they. They are happy, obviously, with their either Garden Cottage or attached.

F

um I feel like I found. The majority of these applicants were not doing it to bring in income.

F

They were doing it to um have a place for a family member to extend um living area. um To you know.

F

Most I would say preemptively for family, so I thought that was a really interesting takeaway.

F

From this is that um they weren't really rented openly on on the outside Market again, we only.

F

Had five attendees, but so that was interesting, I think maybe just one was on the rental market.

F

It might I think I can't remember exactly. We did ask the question, though I don't know if it's.

B

Capturing the notes, but that's my recollection as well- that they mostly did it for for family yeah.

B

And seems to be that uh some of the comments that we received from the people about are.

B

Saying it's a great option for family and for affordable housing for family and yeah.

E

Yeah I had the neighborhood representatives and um we had a good participation.

E

um There was concern that a lot of times variance is needed, as you mentioned,.

E

um I think some of them, um adus that were a Butters, were concerned that they.

E

Were too big after their variants or after the interpretation by the planning award or um and.

E

I know a lot of the um we mentioned, you know talk about uh building for a family member um and then.

E

But then it was brought up with concern. What would happen after that family member had passed, or you.

E

Know what I mean like what would happen next now? Is that just made you there? That would become a.

E

Short-Term rental, or something like that, you know what I mean and how we want to be aware of that.

E

It was also expressed that they want to make sure that it would fit the um fit the neighborhood.

E

Fit the neighborhood I mean traffic was mentioned, parking drainage was brought up. That was another.

E

Thing I've actually experienced that um uh with just uh dealing with president's importance that.

E

I know that has been an issue in some edus I can say drainage. Is it because there's.

A

Additional structure, additional structure and their additional like non-pervious surface so.

E

Then it creates, you know, maybe a backyard where all sudden now the neighbors I think that it's.

B

Important to capture, at least in the narrative somewhere, because I do think any time we're adding.

B

New impervious or new, it is a concern of neighbors, yeah and I. Think it's it's a concern because they.

B

May already be experiencing some sort of so I think it might be important to really capture that.

B

Somewhere uh in the narrative that it is and I know, because anytime we introduce any new projects.

B

That is always a concern because there probably already are some existing conditions that yeah.

E

uh When I do know, some neighborhoods have don't train well, you know I mean, as is so, you start adding more and then it just exacerbates the problem.

E

um Yeah, it was about that there was one 400 square foot building built a foregrope.

E

Garage and it was approved based on the interpretation of the ordinance that was.

E

One of the ones they mentioned about being too large and then requiring variance everything.

E

um Short-Term rental is a concern. Architecturally be consistent in the neighborhood.

E

um And it was expressed in some neighborhoods that the lots are too small that, like it really.

E

Wouldn't fit but when you say there's concern lots are too small like that they shouldn't have.

A

One because the lefts are so small yeah I guess, because the density is already too dense, yeah.

E

um That was by at least one way and Richard. Maybe I misunderstood you, one of the neighbors.

D

Said one of the people said a 400 square foot. One was too large, two four thousand. They said.

D

Four thousand actually, four thousand yeah 400 smoke yeah over four car garage, yeah.

E

So yeah that was uh eye opener, but I think we put a stuff down in there.

B

That actually, the unit size actually did was not greater than 750 square feet. Yeah.

C

Well, without a variance well, the left size thing did come up during the engineers discussion.

D

uh They felt from their dealing with their clients that maybe the lot size requirement.

D

Was too restrictive and that maybe there shouldn't be a requirement for an additional.

D

Half acre rake or whatever it might be in a particular zone for an additional unit.

D

um I made a note, while folks were talking, and it goes back to the earlier comment about possible.

D

Pre-Approval there's a different way to structure zoning which we don't really have in our zoning.

D

Right now with performance standards, so you can set up a series of Standards which can.

D

Include drainage, you know anything, you think of vibration, noise, uh parking traffic generation.

D

Whatever, if you do not exceed certain thresholds, you go through the easy path.

D

If you exceed one of those you go through the more difficult path you exceed three or four you've got.

D

A problem and you're gonna have to go to the CA and have to do a whole bunch of things in this.

B

Case performance zoning is I, think a direction that we probably I think we are migrating towards.

B

In this discussion and the other thing that helps with performance, zoning is certain things like.

D

um Off topic, but related to Performance owning's, electric vehicle charging stations, something like.

D

That uh it wasn't contemplated when the uh I'm going to call it a form-based code character base.

D

Code was adopted, it's it's things changed quickly and you know nobody was thinking about it. So it's.

D

Not in our ordinance, so our ordinance is written. If something isn't specifically noted, you've.

D

Got a you could have a problem with it, because it's not listed in the list of permitted things.

D

Performance zoning says well yeah. Maybe we can list certain things, but we can also say.

D

Anything that doesn't exceed these thresholds is also allowed and then you've got. You don't have.

D

To do variances to have certain things allowed, so um that's a possibility that might help with.

D

This this discussion, that said I'm I'm, really concerned about um creating a situation where.

D

If we don't do this very carefully staff's going to get a lot of pressure behind closed doors from.

D

High-Powered people sometimes to approve something that wouldn't happen necessarily in a public.

D

Meeting so I think that's a there's, a tension there I have to figure out if it's, if it's a.

D

Pick a size, an agreed on size, with a building design that everybody has agreed to have gone.

D

Through the vetting process that should be allowed, I think personal opinion I think if we have a good.

B

Clear checklist, you know, I think that's, that's the that's the positive thing that performance.

B

Zoning offers is that if you can I, don't think anyone I, don't I, don't know that we're arriving.

B

At a place where we're going to open the gates completely but I know that they're, you know, are.

B

Charged, just you know, is to make it easier that was the charge of the city council to.

B

Remove barriers, I think there's some obvious barriers, but as we remove those implementing.

B

Some performance standards to as you remove those to say if you'd you know, if you meet.

B

The dimensional requirements, if you know, if there are five or six things, then you um that we that.

B

We are capturing they're important, you know to the community, then that would be allowed.

B

um By right, so I guess as we move towards that pinning down what those important things are, the.

B

Survey has been very helpful and I think public input will continue to be helpful on this topic.

A

I, remember there being an application fairly early on in the Adu requests, and it was you know a.

A

Two-Story house- and they were basically splitting so that there'd be an upper unit and a lower unit.

A

um As people were aging and they weren't changing anything outside, they weren't really.

A

Nothing was changing, except for the interior of the house. That, to me is like a no-brainer. It's.

A

Not affecting anyone there's more density there, but they had already enough parking. You know.

A

Off street parking they already had everything outside that they needed so I feel like things.

A

Like that, we could find a way to make those and at the easy yeah you know the attached ones, also.

B

The new ones that, when we had one that went to the planning board not too long ago, it's part.

B

Of the structure- and it is almost indiscernible from the structure that to me was a pretty clear.

B

Example, I mean it was really. You know you wouldn't know driving by that. There was an Adu there and.

B

um That, if that doesn't, if that's not compatible, so those attached ones, I think.

B

Are less problematic, the detached ones are a little bit trickier and that will be yeah, but.

B

I agree with you, I think there is some support for that idea, because just based on what's gone.

B

To the plant, what I've seen what's gone to the planning board? It's part of the structure, it's.

A

Not discernible right, it's like a basement level. Somebody turned their basement into an ad or even.

B

Above the garage there's some Dormers, but you don't. You aren't aware that it's even there but.

D

Tying into what rich said and I share the concern. We have to think long term, because this is a.

D

Matter of public policy, so let's say uh Grandpa passes away and now you've got the physical.

D

Two units, the condominium statute, allows me to convert that into two salable condominium units.

D

Well, not not now not the way. The ordinance is written. State law preempts on.

D

What do you mean the state law says if you've got something that physically exists, you can convert.

D

It to condominium units, so are you suggesting what we have on the books isn't enforceable, I've gone.

D

That far but I know what I know the condominium statute, so we just have to be careful about this.

D

Well, we need to answer that that needs to be answered. Okay, because, obviously the presumption.

E

Everybody is making perhaps erroneously because I've never heard that point before it goes against.

E

That you cannot condominiumize an Adu unit if that's been precluded by the legislature.

D

Specifically great I think it is yeah. That's confirming now. We've got two statues that.

D

Conflict with each other, not surprising- that's happened before of the legislature, but whether.

D

That particular loophole exists. I think we have to. We do have to think long term when it's not.

D

Family, what happens 5 10 15 years? Hence is it something that is being used as a device? You.

D

Know I I'm, almost positive that that was one of the state requirements when it first came out is.

A

That these are not these are approved, specifically under the ordinance for accessory dwelling units.

A

And cannot be come to us I believe that was in that in the state models, I call it the model.

A

Zoning that they put in because it's a standalone unit, it violates all our zoning and I, don't think.

E

They wanted them to be investor owned, they had to be because they are two units. I mean there's two.

A

Units and one has to be occupied by the owner. That is also another state level requirement anyway,.

D

So anyway, my point was just picking up on what you said just whether that is a particular issue.

D

Or there's something else out there: we just have to check to be sure um because it's it's beyond.

D

You know the the immediate applicant who we all perhaps know and like and they're going to do.

D

A great thing, but what happens five years from now right? No, that's what we have to think when.

D

B

Actually, in the public, uh you know the survey, but it might be I think you know if I was to.

B

Think sometimes, at the end of when we get to the regulatory Red Line, sometimes it's worthwhile.

B

Asking another question of the community: you know the folks who have like at least one comment in.

B

The Butters, and sometimes the people that respond to surveys are the angry people, so I was really.

B

Pleasantly surprised that it was really you know, it was all different kinds of experiences were.

B

Reflect the respondents but previous tenant was respectful, the current tenant is respectful and so.

B

I think um to you know, presume that if it converts that it's just going to convert to a party house.

B

You know, I think that those go to um you know, students I think they go to Young professionals.

B

I think they're not big enough really to host families. So I think there's a you know: there's a.

B

Concern I have when we start to presume that, just because it moves from a family member to somebody.

B

Who needs an affordable unit that somehow they're going to be less desirable and I just want to.

B

um Ground truth: that with some of the experiences that we're seeing because I don't know that.

B

There's you know it just makes me uncomfortable, uh I didn't mean to suggest there's a problem with.

B

That no I know you didn't, but I think that there is a sense that, because we have heard that that.

B

You know if it does, and so I I think that in that you know, I I think the issue is really centering.

B

Around the idea that how do we catch those short-term rentals? That is a real thing and we.

B

Know that that can be problematic in neighborhoods and they're not allowed now they're not, and anyone.

A

Who has a short-term rental issue near them? Should report it to the city because they will.

A

Be shut down, but that's a state level battle that will be ongoing, probably for the next few years.

A

um Whether or not we are allowed to prevent those from happening.

A

um But I think the idea that they have to be one of the units has to be owner occupied. So the idea.

A

Is of course, they're living also next door and in close proximity to these people, so the people who.

A

Own the units and live there should want the person to be respectful and hopefully, and they.

B

Live there yeah, they don't want a party going on every Saturday of the year right. They shouldn't.

A

Anyways, if they do, then they have a problem too, and then we have a bigger problem right.

A

One we can't really solve, um but that's that's the theory. The theory is because one unit is an.

A

Owner occupied that owns both units would want to make sure that whatever tenant is in their.

A

Renting would be a respectful tenant that wouldn't cause issues in the neighborhood. That's the Hope.

A

Anyways you know it did it made me think about also that annual certification that you are still.

B

On it's still owner occupied I mean there's ways. We can sort of check that through the assessor's.

B

Office about where their primary residence is, but also and that's something we could do instead of.

B

Having the annual certifications, we could check that. That's not I, think a big exercise, but also.

B

Keep in mind that you know we have a whole host of zoning regulations that we don't tie to people's.

B

Deeds, this is just not allowed you're not allowed to open a business in a neighborhood. We don't put.

B

It on your deed, you're just not allowed to do it. You know I mean unless it's like it's a home.

B

Occupation, but you couldn't, you know, open up a uh you know a floral shop and convert your house to.

B

A there's all you can't make your fence higher than six feet. There's a whole host of do with.

B

Your property by ordinance- and we don't require that you certify every year, you're not doing it.

B

If you are going to be doing those things that it's causing problems, uh you might want to be on.

B

Good terms with your neighbors, because we find out most code violations through abutting properties.

B

So it's just something to think about, as we move forward is that the biggest police force we have.

B

Out there that kind of help people stay in line is the neighbors and some people you can anonymously.

B

Report that this these people who no longer live there but I just want to just make a note that.

B

While we do have that annual certification, I think that probably the more there are better mechanisms.

B

uh You know to keep track of that, primarily maybe through the assessor's office, but also.

B

I think, through um just Anonymous reporting for people who are concerned about it. hmm If you go.

A

Back to your point about the Condominiums, do you know why it's? Okay? It's because these are only in.

A

Single-Family neighborhoods, what we're talking about is adus and single-family neighborhoods.

A

If you're zoning already allows for multiple units, then yeah it doesn't it's not technically, then an.

A

Adu right we're allowing two units in places that should only have one and I think that's where the.

A

The disconnect I had to think about that for a little bit and I just checked. If, if you define.

D

It correctly, you can't do a conversion, so we're good yeah I knew that that had to be in there and.

A

I knew there was a reason I'm like wait, because these are all single-family neighborhoods. There shouldn't be any condos when you have a single family where you can have a condo, but not a condom.

A

You know what I mean yeah on one on one lot. You can have one condominium lot, but that's just one.

A

All right any other input or regarding this, um and if you guys have more, you review this a little bit.

A

Further and have more additions like comments that we all heard in one of my cad, we'll just send them.

A

I guess to Luke: probably how did the respondents and it looks like they're this one only has 18.

B

So I think it will be yeah uh the one the last one that you sent me I, think it had like 18 or.

A

19, if I remember tell me we'll get the updated version to you and then um and then update this.

B

Accordingly, I just want to review the timeline with the with the um language committee, so this.

B

Is going to this public summary report corrected? Thank you for your comments, all very good, as you.

B

Know we will get this cleaned up and out of the draft form might incorporate some different quotes.

B

And move the tables around to make sure that they match. Thank you for that comment. That is confusing.

B

um uh And then have a updated version of the survey. This is going to City Council on July.

B

11Th so it'll be this end. uh Luke will be uh doing a PowerPoint walking Council through the results.

B

um Of this uh of this uh Outreach, uh we will be taking it to the planning board in their.

B

July meeting recognizing that probably sometime in August, we'll bring the draft uh the first meeting.

B

In August we'll bring some version of the draft red lines to The Landings committee for our first.

B

Meeting and then once the Lions committee has refined those they also go to council hope, I'm.

B

Hoping for the second meeting in August they'd go to council for their review and submittal.

B

To the planning board, and so we will be sending those out, I will be meeting with Mr Tanger over.

B

The next month to uh work on some of these issues and your feedback, it's been very helpful to look.

B

For a second round of that, when we bring red lines forward and that'll, give us a chance for.

A

The actual data to get comments both from city council and planning board before we yes bring.

A

The red line and the actual zoning forward and a more finalized survey, which has been out for.

B

I think that by the time they receive their letters, they've been it's maybe been out for a full week now so hopefully, and that we will be able to you know round out that survey data.

B

And make sure it's updated, we'll try and get it our deadline for count. Council is Tuesday.

B

So we'll try and get the latest and greatest in there and um and then be prepared to talk about.

B

With the planning board in uh at their July meeting as well Luke, when do you think you can.

D

Get the revised spreadsheet or do you already have it just have a senate? uh No I don't have.

C

It but I can we not yesterday, but I know I saw it, but I couldn't find it I thought so. I I was.

B

Yeah I will double check. I know. We know we have 22 but I'm, trying to figure out where.

B

Spreadsheet is yeah, we can get it to you, don't think it takes a minute to.

B

Format it we've got, there's a lot of names in it so and it's really just a.

B

Know uh it's really: it's not a very usable file to you kind of get the names out of it. You know and.

B

Make sure we're trying to make it truly Anonymous, so yeah and then also you know, there's a Luke had.

B

A little trouble because there's a lot of weird characters somehow got captured in it. I don't know.

B

Why the whenever anybody puts an apostrophe it like inserts a bunch of random characters like a.

C

Little trademark, little dollar sign or something so I think my printer doesn't yeah scattered.

B

Through the whole thing and make sure it's like right, yeah get all the names out because they.

B

I don't know why, but it must be a typical thing. It wasn't part of our original question that we.

B

Submitted but there was a I guess, an email option that got captured and names and so I know some of.

B

You got the the bigger report which we did not send out to the whole group, but it actually had.

B

Quotes from specific people, so we didn't we're trying to we're trying to give people an option.

B

To provide as much anime as Pop, even though we did include the attendees to the event, we tried.

B

To prevent their actual comments to be, you know so that people feel comfortable in speaking, their.

B

Mind but so we that's that's the general timeline I'm, hoping that we will have it out of council.

B

And to the planning board by September, which I think is, is a reasonable timeline. I I, don't think.

B

It's going to unless I get different direction from this committee. I, don't think it's going to.

B

um Open up the floodgates but I think there will be some things that we might all agree on, makes.

B

Sense and that those should be uh move forward without as much um process. What exactly are you.

D

Thinking we'll have finished by September I think it'll be out, I think it'll be out of.

B

Council by September it'll be to the planning board by September as a recommendation to do.

D

Something about it, the red lines, I'm hoping to be out of council by by the end of August, that we can.

B

Take the red lines to council and that they will be comfortable with sending those recommended.

B

Changes to the planning board and so I'm trying to move into zoning possible zoning changes. Are you.

D

Going that step so we're including performance criteria by September or we're talking about.

D

Getting this so survey, data I mean it's not a performance Zone in code, but I. Think in this.

B

Case as you try to maybe potentially identify situations where the cup would not be allowed.

B

Because that cup is pretty high bar for every single one of them, if there are, let's just you.

B

Know and I don't know, because I haven't sit down and talked to Rick and Rick's been doing a lot.

B

Of studying at the state level and also I guess, there's some State experts on adu's that he's been.

B

Working he's been sent us some information, but my feeling is that uh there are some, for example,.

B

And I don't know this would be, but this would be an example. I think we're all talking about in this.

B

Meeting if it was attached, if it was indiscernible from the you know, structure if it were, you know we.

B

Would have to provide what criteria that would be. There's the internal doorway, all the things.

B

That we would say, if there's a separate, driveway, there's no dimensional relief. All those things.

B

Then, maybe that one would have a shorter, shorter pathway, because it seems to be that those make.

B

The most sense, the attached ones, seem to be less problematic than the detached ones. There may be.

B

If I get direction from this board, some instances were detached might be. The problem is always that.

B

You know compatibility with neighborhood character, which is a hard thing to Define. It's almost a.

B

Case-By-Case basis- and that might be a different kind of- but maybe the criteria for review would.

B

Look a little different for some of those I. Don't know, that's a hard one. The architecturally.

B

Compatible a little bit easier on a on something, that's part of the house than something that's.

B

Detached in the house, uh the garden Cottages, there might be some changes in looking at some.

B

Since we do have so many Garden cottages, we did hear you might recall from The Architects. They.

B

Said this is not a livable unit, we have to go and we have a challenge before us right now uh about.

B

um Not a challenge, but a question about the you know: making sure that that language is very clear.

B

About if we do, when we do allow it to go back to a little bit bigger what the you know, expansion.

B

Criteria might be well because one of the comments that I'm now just remembering is that the size.

A

Made it very limiting for Adu capabilities uh and I'm talking accessory like for somebody that is.

A

Handicapped, who needs the bathroom to be a certain size for wheelchair capabilities? So, whether or not.

A

You could carve out, you know an exception on size based off of the need for the um intended use. That.

A

It's meant to be, for you know, wheelchair-bound or mobily challenged. However, we want to word that.

A

um That might be some sort of exception that could be made on a case-by-case basis, but that.

A

Wouldn't go down an easy route right that would probably have to go down another route, and it's.

A

Like okay, it needs to be bigger because the doorways, the hallways everything needs to be.

A

Slightly wider to be accessible for Mobility challenged, but aspirationally are we looking.

D

At trying to have a multi-tiered process ready for discussion, perhaps vote in September is that.

D

Where is that the goal? No, it's coming out, it's! No! It's coming to the planning board for their.

B

First review in September as Michael, okay, so we'll kick off the process with possibly a multi-tiered.

D

Process like we're talking about of having easy, medium and perhaps hard. Yes, I think that that's.

B

What I mean by multi-tier I'm, sorry, what you can expect is that, right now they all go through the.

B

Same gate, there may be an easier gate for some subject to criteria and there may be a couple of.

B

Dimensional, tweaks that we have to take a look at that's kind of what I'm thinking I'm hearing from.

B

This committee today is that figure out the low hanging fruit, the ones that are least problematic.

B

That we usually go through without much difficulty figure out the frequent flyers based on the data.

B

That that Luke has pulled looking at all of them. The feedback we've heard from our Engineers.

B

Applicants and Architects and then see what we can do to where we might be able to work. A couple of.

B

Dimensional Corrections or clarifications language we have heard from the community.

B

Different things about the intent getting the intent correct, maybe we need to be very clear.

B

About the intent- and that's always a good thing to do in zoning is to state where you're not.

B

Sure recognize that this is the intent and so, uh but also clarify things that have created.

B

Some ambiguity, so this is sort of the charge and I think I, don't expect to see a um a brand new Adu.

B

Ordinance because I don't think we're there at a point, but I do I, do take the charge given to.

B

Us seriously that we should identify where we can remove barriers, I think for sure. The three things.

A

That I hear from listening and reading this record is the the three things that we need to keep as.

A

Concerns in mind is the short-term rentals. uh The parking and really privacy is I. Think.

A

But you can take a lot of the setbacks and other issues. It really just boils down to.

A

Privacy of a butter, so I think that we need to make sure anything we write keeps those things.

A

As sort of understood top concerns, as well as the top barriers that we're trying to eliminate.

A

Barriers and take in consideration concerns your neighborhood character, yeah exactly.

A

If there's nothing else, anyone any other inputs, uh then I will open it up to the public. If.

A

There's anyone from the public that would like to come up and sit in a chair at a microphone.

G

Foreign ER 159, McDonough, Street property owner.

G

I, don't believe we have a single family home only.

G

Am I, Wrong Nick would know this I think every I think almost all the zoning we have for.

G

Single-Family homes includes up to four units. Is that correct or am I wrong about, except for.

E

The outlying districts, the rural districts, okay, I, believe the SR, A and B are single family. Only.

E

No two families, no two families at all. Okay I, wasn't sure, but it's not much of.

E

The city, yes, that area yeah I was going I was gonna, say I, don't think it's much.

G

I have a concern about non-conforming uses and including them into the um into the package of.

G

The I, like the idea of the performance standards I, think that's kind of what we talked about before.

G

And kind of saying this is, if you pigeonhole exactly into this, then you can do that. I like that.

G

um If the administrative approvals I think it should still allow for some.

G

Public input somewhere along in that I think that's key I think you could.

G

um I was thinking of like the HTC. Has these administrative approvals, but there's there is.

G

A lot there is an opportunity for public input, so that was one of the things I thought about.

G

um And the question that came up when um you were talking about the opportunity to turn it.

G

Into condos is what about if the owner moves, you know you build the Adu and then the owner moves.

G

What does the Adu turn into and you mean if they sell it yeah if they well it? No, if you.

G

Just move out well, it has to be owner occupied one of the units. Yes, I understand what you're.

G

Saying but what I'm saying to you is if I only own a unit and I put in an Adu and five years from now.

G

Grandma dies and I decide to move to a different house in Portsmouth or wherever and now my house.

G

Is being rented out, you can't what happens to the Adu? You can't have it. You can't happen because one.

A

Of those units has to be owner, occupied I, hear what you're saying, but that's you have to sell.

E

It or or get rid of the Adu right, which won't be the likely option right, given the investment that.

G

Was really what I was thinking about is that you could put it in now? Grandma dies you're, not taking.

G

Care of her anymore, you want to live in that house. You move out and you're going to rent it now. Yeah.

E

That's a really important consideration for people going into the process to understand. So it's an.

G

Excellent question right to make sure that's, maybe have something in there that says, oh by the way.

B

It doesn't it does lend that a more sort of I would say strength to the idea of having a deed.

B

Restriction on there, because then it would be captured as part of the conveyance okay.

B

Or would it not it would you couldn't really put because they're already on the property, you can't.

A

It would be hard to do a restriction on the deed, but we could do a res something recorded at the.

A

Registry, putting restrictions on the property um it could be captured as part of the computer.

B

And I think in the title Stitch it wouldn't technically be at a closing, but something.

A

Found in a title search, so the city could put on this property is restricted to always be.

A

Owner occupied because it has an approved Adu, you want to put in all fair to people who are looking.

B

To buy that, they understand that. Yes, it's not an investment property. This is not your future.

B

uh Correct we could create something like that: it would put a restriction on the property. Okay.

A

So I'm a title attorney, so this is why I guess that's why it's very about these sorts of things.

A

My property, we already strict slash property, understood that okay I just want to make sure that's clear yeah. So that was my.

G

Concern was that you know, and the other thing I think that people need to keep in mind is a lot.

G

Of times when people decide to put in an Adu it's because they're already in family crisis, what are.

G

We going to do with mom. What are we going to do with Grandma? What are we going to do with Uncle Joe those type of things so they're, making decisions at that time in a crisis situation and.

G

They don't always think about what comes next and therefore I think what we've you talked about is.

G

That it needs to be very clear when you do this process and when you talked about the little.

G

Guideline book, I thought of Juliette Walker did that when 105 Bartlett Street started and.

G

Everybody said what happens next, she created a sheet which I still have that says this is.

G

The process and how it goes and I use that same sheet when I follow any other developments. So a.

G

Sheet like that, a guideline sheet that shows step one step, two step three and the things.

G

That you need to understand about those steps is key, I think for people, because most people don't.

G

Understand zoning and they are very reactive in what they're doing when there's a crisis.

A

Yeah I think the Deep restriction is a great idea, but it's not going to solve the problem about.

A

Someone moves out and wants to rent it, because unless on that list that they have, they realize.

A

You know that if you're, not, if you move out of this and it's no longer owner occupied, you must.

A

Either sell or you know, I mean it could be just right, get rid of the Adu. Those are your options.

A

And I think, even if we put that on record and because they just move out and rent the property.

A

You're not going to find that out, nobody's doing title searches, so I think having that as part of.

A

The end sort of the checklist you know moving forward. This is why we had the annual check-ins.

A

Was to make sure that somebody was still included in that at that point. I think that's to make.

G

Sure it didn't get changed anyway. That's my two cents. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else.

H

Good morning, Peter Huda, 280, South, Street um I think this is excellent. Work um there's still a.

H

Lot of questions to be answered, uh one thing that comes up uh in listening to the discussion here is.

H

um I live in the south end historic district. Is there an interface here, you're you're speaking.

H

About pre-approved and um the effect, what effect would this have on a historic neighborhood if.

H

You're not looking at or bringing them into um to do their thing as this moves forward.

H

And has that been considered? Well, I'll. Kick it tonight, but I just like to say.

B

That I don't know in any case that we would propose not including HDC as part of them HTC.

A

Would have so that's I, don't think that will ever fall away. Yeah! That's an important! We.

E

Still have that design review for HDC for any alterations, so there would be a full notice to.

E

Everybody in a public hearing I think that's important, I. Think: okay, okay, sounds clear: if.

H

You were even you were not there yet. Okay, we're just starting a conversation, because.

H

uh On that, it would definitely need uh HDC approval and public comment by your Butters.

H

Because all of us are under in the HTC are under different regs than everybody else.

B

We would not, we would not want to change that process. Awesome touching that. Thank you. Thank.

E

You, but it's a good point to make so that we are more clear about it. Yeah. Let me show clear.

I

Hi everyone Liza Hewitt 726 Middle Road, um I'm, probably going to jump around a little bit because.

I

I had a little something and then of course, as all of you spoke I had a few other. Some things.

I

um So excuse me um I, guess again and I've already brought this up, so it's not gonna. Be any surprise.

I

The standards themselves and I have concerns about some of those, some of which I voiced in the.

I

um The focus group I I- don't think it was clearly captured. Although I know it.

I

Was recorded, So I know the powers that be watched, it Mr tained. Her was on that.

I

um I would love to meet with somebody for 15 minutes and just I would love that. Thank you.

I

Just to make sure because I think, as in a butter and having gone through that process,.

I

Is in a butter, there are some questions about the way those standards are written and I. Think.

I

That, if you're going to go through this process thoroughly and make changes in some areas, why.

I

Not just you know and and I know, you're probably already looking at that, but I just want to make.

I

Sure that that's part of it so I'm not going to go through that right now, um I still personally.

I

Have significant concerns about adus approved with that planning board approval for cup.

I

um Although I do feel less concerned about kind of those internal adus that do not change the.

I

The external home characteristics or structure of the outside so that I will say in that case.

I

Not quite as concerned I feel a Butters should be given the opportunity to speak in favor or.

I

Against an Adu under consideration as an Adu will potentially impact the quality of.

I

Life potentially may not, but there were some people that made comments about that on the.

I

Surveys, the quality of life of the surrounding properties, I think it's very important that the.

I

City continue to require ceps for adus as a whole. So some of my thoughts from what I heard today.

I

um So I heard from somebody um who called me um and and said what is this letter that I got it.

I

Was she didn't get it until Friday, so you may not be getting responses? It was a weekend now we have.

I

You know this Fourth of July thing so I think the timing wasn't great. um I did not receive a survey.

I

um We, you know, uh I, think that we I think we captured not all of them, but as many as we.

B

Could I think guys I think in your case, because I knew I had heard from you as a director about her.

B

I didn't I already had you in the zoo meeting, yeah I feel like it would be sort of double.

B

Response so I think in that case we that's, probably why you didn't get it and I guess.

I

My feeling is just that I have others living in my home that we're not able to respond that.

I

um So anyway, it would have been nice to get that I did not.

I

Pass it along yeah and I think also in some cases, I think there was at least one other that I left.

B

Off and I know that there's no active litigation, but also it's hard, sometimes to separate all the.

B

Feelings that are in enveloped in that litigation um from the actual sort of like sort of none I'd.

B

Say separate that out from the actual experience, because I think you know either if it's gone.

B

Poorly or the relationship's deteriorated, so I am glad that you participated in the zoom meeting. I.

B

Don't have any problem sending that to you as well, but I I just want to I think there was a.

B

It was it to be transparent, I just thought. Well, we kind of got that a butter already, you know has.

B

Reflected in the zoo meeting and so I felt like that we'd heard your voice, so I apologize well.

I

I'll get that from you afterwards or later. um So no Dadu um applicant included in the focus group.

I

Is that right, I think we've had that many of them they were invited: okay, yeah they weren't.

C

That there's not that many on the list of adus the tax adus are I mean Garden colleges are.

C

Pretty much popular but just detached I just wanted to know things, and that might be worth.

I

Noting, somewhere in your information, I absolutely can make that note. Yeah um uh should be noted to.

I

um And Liz Liz may have heard it differently, but for the three of us neighborhood reps, um there was.

I

No one that said they were in favor of building by right and I. Think that should be noted.

I

um All three of us said that they did not think that that should should happen.

I

um I I also think that you know I agree. I, think that the process needs to be.

I

Made more clearly understood that that it's not necessarily A matter I, didn't hear you say that.

I

um The the powers that be or the engineers and were saying we don't want to go for a.

I

Cup they were saying it's not clear. um It's not clear and I would like you to take that.

I

Path: first, before taking um you know, cup out of the game um I'd like to see you try to.

I

To to make that clear for people and that may do it and then they may feel more comfortable.

I

About going for that cup, I agree with Rick on kind of how he proposed that pre-approved.

I

The pre-approved plans I think that that might be a way to kind of get around some of the cup.

I

With that kind of thing, in specific situations, I feel really strongly fit that annual renewal.

I

Process needs to be kept in order to make a Butters, comfortable, I. Think five years is a.

I

Long time and and I think you're not going to have a lot of trust with that and it's fine.

I

um You know I would be one that would come to you if there was a problem with my Dadu next door, but.

I

Not everybody feels comfortable doing that um and and people just don't feel comfortable coming to.

I

This, the city and saying, there's a problem next door, so I really think that needs to be followed.

I

um And again, I'm gonna I'm, just gonna bring this up. I I brought it up at the the focus. I think.

I

I want you to be really clear about your intent of why you're doing this I heard during the election.

I

um That there were candidates that were talking about we're going to look at building adus by.

I

Right and that's going to make it easier and then we're going to increase the housing stock.

I

But now sitting here today, I'm not hearing that that's what this is doing, that people.

I

Have built these for their parents, you know that these are family. So what is the intent.

I

Of going through this process and of making this, what you're, looking at easier, which is not a bad.

I

Thing by any means, but but are you thinking that this is going to bring Mass numbers of Apartments.

I

Onto the rental and and if not those people that need, you know, need a place for for Grandma Jane.

I

To live out the rest of her life are going to do this regardless. You know whether it's easy or not,.

I

They're going to do this so I just want you all all to be real clear about your intent in making.

I

These changes looking at this spending this time about why you are doing this, and is this really.

I

Going to increase housing stock, which I feel like is what the city council suggested. This.

I

Whole process start over so I I just would love to make sure that you are having some conversation.

I

Around that I would love to see in the standards. It never really occurred to me and maybe now I'll.

I

Find out that there is a problem with this indeed, dad use um is: is it possible to to to require some.

I

Kind of drainage study um for a Dadu to make sure in the standards that something's been.

I

Done to look specifically drainage, just like you look at height and you look at you know the the.

I

Characteristics of the way it looks I, don't know whether that's right or not and I, like the idea.

I

Of a deed restriction, and thank you so much for listening to me once again. Thank you. Thank you.

A

A

There's that one on Zoom, uh unless any of you guys have anything else to say, I- will.

A

Adjourn the meeting. Thank you uh I'd like to thank everybody for the feedback. It's awesome.

C

My first report and.