City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Land Use Committee, 4 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: 11.4.2022 Land Use Committee

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11.4.2022 Land Use Committee

A

Good morning, everyone welcome to our friday november 4th uh land use committee meeting.

B

We are um going to get started a moment, but to start I wanted to just inform this group.

B

uh That we've received two really key grants most recently, so you've probably already heard.

B

About the first grant, which was um a community housing navigator program that we applied for.

B

uh Through invest new hampshire, it's a position with the city, a full-time person that we uh will.

B

Be hiring for two years we received 250 000 to cover the cost of this person, and for this.

B

Person to do outreach within the community to basically help us get all the information.

B

That we need for our zoning, but also don't forget the first one of the first tasks is not just the.

C

Public involvement plan, but the adu handbook, which you've heard so much about as a really.

C

Important deliverable for the for this project. So stealing all my time! Sorry, I'm sorry! Oh it's all.

B

Right because I know there's a lot of interest in that there is, there is uh the second grant.

B

That we just got awarded about a week ago, so we haven't actually voted on a city council. Yet.

B

um But I'm sure we'll be happy to do so. Is that we're receiving 82 000 uh to help hire.

B

A consultant in which to be able to help us rework the actual nitty-gritty regulations for our phase.

B

um Incentive plans so super exciting stuff and I'd like to make a special thank you to beverly zent.

B

Our planning director, who did an amazing job, crafting these uh grants and getting them out.

B

There in pretty much a short order. I think I gave her a week for the first one. So amazingly, she got.

B

Them both done and we've been awarded the money. So that's exciting news, because this group will.

B

Definitely be working with the community housing navigator person who's, basically going to be doing.

B

Everything housing for two years with the city so exciting stuff on the horizon. Congratulations.

B

um Our member corey clark is coming he's running a little bit late, so he'll be joining us in a short.

B

uh Future here so at the last meeting we took a bunch of comments regarding the adu changes.

B

Some of the changes that were made were to the purpose statement. We updated that. I know we've.

B

Changed the overall height of detached adus. uh We also clarified some of the language and.

B

We also added some requirements for signage on properties of permitted, so when someone's.

B

Putting in an application for an adu there's going to be a sign requirement that they post.

B

And when that will give notification to all of the butters uh butters, I can't talk this morning. Sorry.

B

At that point, their recourse is that all residents can appeal building permits. So if.

B

A building permit is actually in process, they can appeal any building permit well and then.

C

Maybe you can explain a little bit so there there will be an administrative decision that.

C

Comes so you cannot make the administrative decision if they'd have to be posted for 30.

C

Days so there's no administrative decision to be made until uh the posting period is over. So then.

C

The appeal process to that would be to the board of adjustment to the administrative decision of.

C

The director, so that's how okay yeah, I think that would be how it would go, how it would go. Okay, so.

B

There that's been clarified several different options in that which way will go uh were.

B

There any other changes I like the parking was clarified. Okay and the parking was also clarified.

D

Foreign, yes, we did add that we are going to record an affidavit as well. So one thing that I wanted.

C

To offer- and I just offered this summer- is that we do record the adu letters of.

C

Decision and those, I would think, would turn up in a title search. I imagine they.

C

Would turn up into title search? Because all those letters of decisions for every adu are.

C

Recorded the deed of registries, so I think that was our way of trying to ensure that it.

C

That it is always going to be owner occupied that that person would be notified, that it had to be.

C

Unoccupied, so we can certainly do this, but I just want to say that we did have uh we do a mechanism.

C

That we we already- I guess, yeah that wasn't, I don't think actually in our previous one. So I.

B

Guess maybe that's the word. We can change from an affidavit to the notice of decision uh yeah.

C

I mean we could just change that too, because it already it's not in there, but we do it. So I.

C

Don't know right, it's just. We just need to make sure it's so clear, so we can definitely update.

B

That to be the notice of decision, I think I've used the word f yeah here it is yeah 10 81422.

E

How does that? Because we also have the recording in um eight one four.

E

Seven one: that's what you're talking about beverly right, the documentation of the the.

E

Conditional use of permit to prove it right we're talking about for the price, so.

C

471, and one is what we already had documentation- should record the rockingham yeah. So that's I.

C

Guess, that's what that's what we do have. I guess we did have it. That's the conditional.

B

Use permit we're talking about the notice of decision for like permitted right, so we don't.

B

Have it we want to make sure we capture both right? Okay, so wait. So the notice of decision.

C

That is that that is, for the conditional use permit that right. So right now, all of.

B

Them allow right right so require the notice of decision for the cup to be filed with the.

C

Feet of record of the deed of registry, so I'm just trying registry of deeds so.

C

Right, so I guess so. My question is whether they're permitted or conditional use permit. I want to make.

B

Sure they're both captured absolutely thank you. I'm sorry. Do you see why so there'll be two items.

E

That are recorded the registry. uh One is in the case of a conditional use. Permit. There will be.

E

Two items, one will be the conditional use permit itself and the other will be this affidavit as.

E

To prime or just a notice of decision whatever we want to call it, I don't really care, but you.

B

See where I'm trying to capture both sides, so the I mean the affidavit essentially, I think.

C

Binds that I mean it binds them to the degree that the nafidated can bind them. But I think that the.

C

Letter of decision is supposed to bind all future property owners so right, but I understand what.

C

You're saying she's also saying that, in the case of administrative approval, we have to capture that.

C

All right, so so that's it! So maybe it's not the affidavit. I didn't really understand that addition.

E

Because, as you say, the affidavit only applies to the initial applicant, so then that's so we can.

B

Change it to a notice of decision administrative decision, maybe, but I'm just wondering whether.

E

Instead of putting it in 22, we should just change change the other one in 71 to refer not just only.

E

To conditional use permits, but also to approve, I think, the administrative notices yeah okay, I.

B

Think that makes sense, we'll just move it. Okay, um and I I don't know that the affidavit essentially.

C

They're saying they're not going to break the law, but they can't really break the law. It's always.

C

Going to be driven by, I notice, a decision is probably better. I think it's probably sufficient.

C

And they don't have to sit prop. I mean that is the that's. That's the that's our city ordinance. So.

A

Okay, does that make sense, though we capture both yep, okay, I'm sorry, I didn't bring that.

C

In front I just I know I just lost that. Is there anything else, I'm missing that has been changed.

B

Or any questions from anyone else.

B

Changes we made on that really.

D

What's everything I had on my list yeah, I don't think we missed anything.

B

All right, then, there has been some feedback on the.

B

Assisted living and whether or not there are some.

B

Of the areas based off of the use that we should keep as a special exception.

B

Well, I guess maybe we just need to um talk about that a little bit and it had to do with you know.

B

It's because it is going to be more of a business than just a residential we're thinking. It's got to.

B

Be a multi-family residential, but now it's going to be more of a business. There will be. You know.

B

Deliveries created, it won't be as many cars because they don't actually drive, but there's.

B

The employees that work there, so I guess it's going to depend on the size of what they are.

B

So I guess we all just need to figure out whether or not there are some of these that we've changed.

B

To have permitted that maybe should go back to a special exception, so the smaller of the two.

C

Is the home and the larger is the center correct? So yes, home is five or less so.

C

Yeah, I just want to make that distinction so that.

B

As we look at those family and the ala, yeah eight [applause].

A

B

Yeah so maybe in some of the tighter neighborhoods that makes sense.

B

Yeah, I yeah, I think, just in that what we would consider the more the.

B

Denser neighborhoods, I think we could change it.

B

Hello, mr clark, oh.

B

B

Av assisted living center in the gamh should go from n to s versus n to p.

B

You're in you're in the assisted living set, are you looking at the centers in the home center.

E

You look at the center one yeah looking at the stuff, we changed. Oh, I see what you're saying n2s.

E

We changed, we went from not permitted to permitted, maybe it should go from not permitted to special.

B

Access, so are we before you go on? We are we okay with the assisted living homes, or is that.

B

It's because they were below. I was looking at them. I'm looking at this chart yeah I was looking at.

E

The explanation as to why we're doing things so sorry, sorry, I'm like looking at the chart.

B

Because it's easier to see them all at the same time, I think that is a probably a more graceful.

C

Sort of transition from yeah the next step that opens up the gate, I think so so right so say.

E

This again so which ones are you so I I guess I was just gonna if you're looking at the chart.

B

um For centers I say we keep them as special exceptions in grc and gamh, and then I would.

B

Think assisted living homes and the tighter um gra grc, maybe we keep them as a special exception.

E

So um so grca you would keep a special exception. Gamh you would change from p.

E

To s right, correct for centers and right below that, I would change the gra grb and grc to vectus.

B

To keep them the way they are okay and just do the permitted in the in the less dense. So do we.

E

Keep permitted in the downtown and I think so yeah, because those are one g2 business. So the.

E

Only thing we're changing here is ga, and the only thing we're changing from our proposal is.

E

To change g-a-mh to s yes, because the other ones are going back, but gimh is not a.

E

Necessarily always a dense district, isn't this like on on route? You want.

B

To keep those well, I'm just saying that's more like a route, one district, isn't it or.

B

I believe so yeah we don't have very many of them. We don't and we we used to have more, but.

E

I think a lot of them were changed to gateway. Let's keep that s as well. Okay, keep that keep.

E

That, yes, okay yep, so basically everything in that first um zones are all going to be s's.

E

Okay, oh and then.

B

Yeah, I think the rest of them.

E

So we changed a lot of assisted living homes from s to p right and now it's just the mro cd4 and mrb.

E

Changing those from p to back to s, I don't know, I'm looking for discussion.

B

Right, I don't want to be the only one talking I mean. I understand the s on the.

F

um The denser for the assisted living centers, but I think, for the homes I feel comfortable.

F

With the pee on in the in the mro cd4 mrb, I mean it's fiber less, which could be. You know.

C

The size of a family right, yeah right- and I just I mean like knowing the clipper home the.

G

Edgewood center and yes, there are deliveries and stuff like that, but like a small home.

G

Wouldn't wouldn't constitute deliveries like they would get. You know right right.

A

um Yeah- and I think the purpose of this whole thing is to you know, try.

G

To incorporate some of those within residents yeah and encourage the you know, foreign.

B

I know you arrived a little late, so we can go back and sorry. We jumped ahead to assisted.

B

Living we were talking about some of the changes before you leave this. So are we saying that there.

E

Are no changes to the assisted living home or are we saying there were changes to a system.

B

No, we are we're from what we've proposed. The only thing we're changing is those.

B

First, three: from going back to esses; okay, so so under assisted living home, we're changing.

E

Gra grb, grc and ganh to s everything from mro over we're leaving has permitted, as is.

B

Change as proposed, I had two I had two the strike through shows that oh, I see what you're saying.

E

Okay, sure yeah, okay, so we're so we are going back okay. I just want to clarify that. Okay, um forgive.

H

Me if, if uh this is someplace, where I don't see it, but the definition of a assisted living facility.

E

The definition is, [music] I know uh it's in the it's, it's open, it's not it's, not age, restricted.

H

No I've got them. The wood um assisted living facility is a building a group of buildings.

E

Providing housing and supportive services and care for persons who require assistance with.

E

Daily living activities that do not require the skilled, nursing and medical care provided in a.

E

Nursing home or other residential care facility, such supportive services include the provision.

E

Of meals, housekeeping laundry transportation, daily personal care, dispensing medications.

E

And 24 hours per day, staffing, the living facility includes one or more community dining rooms which.

E

Meals are provided to our residents, and each individual, assisted living unit may also have a.

E

Kitchenette other than any accommodations provided for use by the facility staff only assisted living.

E

Units are provided as part of an assisted living facility and then under that an assisted living.

E

Home provides five or fewer residents, and assisted living center provides more six or more residents.

E

Okay, nothing about licensing or nothing out there, because that's not I mean it's.

E

Not really a zoning thing, I think this really. This is really about where we use yeah yeah.

B

Anything else on assisted living.

E

I just have a question now so.

E

I guess not so so anything in the residential district.

E

Is going to be a special exception, it's the only first centers. The only thing we're.

B

That permitted is in the slightly mixed zones: okay,.

B

So the g1, the g2, the cd5 four.

C

Part of this was brought forward because we had some specific inquiries. Do you recall maybe what.

C

Those were, and would this have assisted with any of those inquiries. I can't remember specifically, I.

D

Think it was primarily related to the fact that it's virtually impossible to do this anywhere.

D

So it was more of a opening up map issue district.

D

Which I think we have yeah addressed, we've addressed.

B

B

We've gone over quickly was the changes we've made since the last.

B

Draft which we had updated the purpose statement, because there had been some feedback about we've cleaned up some language due to some comments.

B

um We added a lower height from 25 down to 22 feet. We updated the um notice requirements so.

B

There was a request regarding noticing a butters, so now there is a process similar to what we do.

B

In demolition review committee uh there will be signs clearly posted for 30 days so that people.

B

Can appeal administrative decision of approval? If that's, what is done so the that got added and that.

B

Whether it's administratively approved or through a conditional use, permit they'll all be recorded.

B

At the registry of deeds, so there's notice of the approval that of the requirements that it's a.

B

um Edu and we cleared up the parking language did I forget anything. I think that was everything the.

B

Changes since the last draft that we made great those are the things, and I did I don't know if you.

B

Got to watch our last meeting, but I did ask all your questions and you got answers for them all.

B

No, we talked about them and there were answers. I didn't bring them with me. I apologize, but.

B

um Yeah, does anyone have anything else to talk about this? If not.

B

um We can open up to the public hearing and then we can talk further.

B

By seeing no one look anywhere, okay, is anybody from the public want to come over and speak.

I

Good morning my name is liza hewitt. I live at 726 middle road.

I

um I have a few things. The list is getting shorter um page five.

I

um This came to me it it. It may not be anything, but I just want to double check and triple check.

I

And make sure um under 10.8 14 12., the only one accessory dwelling unit shall be allowed on any.

I

Lot is that include a dadu. So if someone has a da someone has gotten permission to build a dadu and.

I

Decides to put an adu within their house, there is absolutely no way any lawyer in the country could.

I

Come in and argue that point in court is that correct. That is correct, and that comes straight.

I

From well they can always everyone can always argue, but they'll never win. The larger category is.

C

Adu and then it drills down to dadu and aadu. But though this is that captures both of the two okay.

I

I just just wanted to you know: that's why we're here right to make sure um page six. uh The lot.

I

Area I asked about this last time. This is more me, not understanding what the changes have been made.

I

um As far as the minimum lot area, it appears some changes have been made with regard to minimum lot.

I

Areas so I just have a question about what you are allowing now that you did not allow before.

I

So are you allowing it, obviously I'm assuming you're allowing more density? I just want to.

I

Understand what that means like in layman's terms, if, if you could explain that, maybe afterwards I'll.

I

I can go through the rest or you can explain it now. Whatever you do, I think it's pretty easy to.

C

Explain- and I think it's an important point to explain because aside from allowing it permitted.

C

Through administrative appeal for the two places where we've allowed, that with attached uh adus.

C

And cottage housing that doesn't expand, which are the two. This is the probably the most significant.

C

I would say change in terms of making it a little easier and has been problematic and driven people.

C

Into a category often that they didn't fit into because they're trying to avoid doubling their lot.

C

Size so it. I think it is a pretty easy thing to explain in certain districts we- and I think, maybe.

C

Nick can help me, we did require the um the the lot size be doubled. You had to have. You know for the.

C

Dwelling unit was counted as a new unit and so 15 000 square feet was required. I think an srb, an sra.

C

You had to have thirty thousand, and so we were a lot of times, because that wasn't the criteria for.

C

Garden cottage people were saying it was a garden cottage, but it really fit better in a detached adu.

C

So this really does treat them all the same. It is a. um It is a smaller version that it's that.

C

Is part of and we treated the entire thing as if it's a single adu for a lot- and this is cool. Sorry.

C

So that is, I think, one that is I I can. I think, um rick or nick or probably councilman could probably.

C

Explain that more um more clearly, but I think that is one of the big changes in those districts.

C

It does not require double lot size. Okay, then I I would like to request maybe of this. This committee.

I

um When this is explained to the planning board and the public again,.

I

um Where you may have more people watching um that, you explain that, because I think that um you know.

I

It it struck me because I thought well, you know this is going to be more density in a smaller.

I

Lot and I think that I think that residents need to know that I'm not I'm not dissing it, I'm just.

I

Saying that I think that is a big change and I had questions about it before and I knew there.

I

Was something- and I just didn't understand and if I didn't understand it, I think other people won't.

I

Either so if you could just make a note possibly to do that, really explain it when you explain it.

I

um All right, I gotta, I gotta address the parking thing so better. I'm I'm thrilled.

I

To see there are no, um there are no fractions in there anymore, however, which section uh this.

A

Is on yeah page 7 25.? So when I read this and I think I've got it, you are telling first of all.

I

You can only have two bedrooms in an adu right, no more! You can have one bedroom. You can have two.

I

Bedrooms, so if your adu is up to seven seven, it's up to 749 square feet and you have a one bedroom.

I

You have one parking spot if you have a 749 square foot adu and you have two bedrooms, you have one.

I

Parking spot, but if you have a 751 square foot and you have two bedrooms, two two square feet more.

I

You need two parking spots. Pat, you know call me crazy, but how does that make any sense whatsoever.

I

To me, you need to look at bedrooms, you should be looking at bedrooms. You should not be looking at.

I

Square footage that doesn't make any sense you could have. So why would you have a 751.

I

Square foot adu with one bedroom in it and need two parking spots, but you only need one parking.

I

Spot if it's 749 square feet that doesn't make any sense, I mean the reason we do it. This way.

B

Is because that's how we calculate parking across the board in our zones? So that's that's. There is.

D

Not a direct correlation between bedrooms and and parking spaces and how people choose it's.

E

Not between square footage, you know, but the the existing the existing zoning, which is how it's.

E

Been for 15 or 20 years, this is exactly what the zoning says for any dwelling unit. So you.

E

Would actually have to change, rather than make it more strict for an accessory dwelling unit.

E

The idea would be if to address your concerned. You'd have to go back to the parking section in.

E

The the parking section of the zoning ordinances which, as I say, has been in a place for 15 or 20.

E

Years and changed that so that your and that would change the accessories, I'm going to add.

D

To that, because I just did some calculations uh you weren't asked, you wrote this revision right.

D

uh From the last meeting, I was asked to clarify what the existing parking regulations to give you.

D

A credit here for the folks that are concerned about parking, because what you chose to write.

D

Unless I'm reading it wrong is more conservative than what no it's actually it's actually, what the.

E

Existing zoning says, let me finish: yeah if you do a 500 square foot, adu you're only required to.

D

Have half a space, a 500 square foot apartment anywhere important required to have one space.

E

Because it says to round up you have to round up. Are you rounding? So what's not clear to me.

D

And this is good for the conversation. If you have multiple uses on one in one structure, I.

D

Don't think you're rounding up for each use and then totaling each use within a building you're.

D

Going to you're going to add up 0.5 to 1.3, get 2.8 or 1.8, and you round it up to two yeah. If.

E

You've not done that you've gone further here because you're and I I think it's good for the.

D

Folks that are concerned about parking because you're saying we're saying: look, it's not you.

D

What's on the page, here says if it doesn't matter whether you're doing 500 square feet, 499 or 750.

D

You've got to have one space, that's a higher standard than everybody else outside of an adu.

D

If you're doing, uh if you're doing two 700 and 207 749 units, the main house and the adu, that's also.

D

2.6, which is three spaces, so this is requiring it ends up being higher four spaces uh or one. If.

D

It's less than 750., so this is more conservative than what's. The underlying zoning already is for.

D

Units that are not adus based on size, so I I think it's so I guess what I would argue thanks.

I

This is a concern for our butters yeah. You did your survey, you heard this. This was close to.

I

Number one concern was parking, so I really think you know what was the point of doing the survey.

I

If, if you're, not addressing so yeah, which is why it's more conservative, I don't know that.

C

We ever drilled down and I wonder to myself if there's maybe off-street parking occurring, I mean.

C

On-Street parking occurring because it is, I think, you're right, because it is a use, that's kind of on.

C

Its own, if you think about like recently approved 111 state all those were combined together and.

C

Then we sort of went up we rounded up, but in this case it's always going to be rounded up every time.

C

Sometimes it's it's. You know when they're they're aggregated together, then you round up and you pick.

C

Up maybe an extra half there, but in this case it'll always pick up. It's rounded up and it's.

D

Cumulative, that's the difference. Yeah! It's not cumulative outside this ordinance. So I guess the.

C

And I would be- and I think just to reiterate um the point uh that rick made to to make it more.

C

Onerous and to apply a standard, that's harder for adus, keeping in mind that we had two directives.

C

Remove barriers and there's been a couple barriers removed, but also clarify and um and make sure the.

C

Standards are very clear and I think, in terms of doing that, we've added a lot of I can tell.

C

You right now the standards are in place now quite possibly could preclude many of the ideas.

C

That we have cited so I think we have raised the standard created that predictable outcome.

C

um uh For what the adus look like, but this to, I think, to make that more onerous would be.

C

Problematic than because we wouldn't be treating it like, we treat other residences. That said, we did.

C

Never drill down on that and I'm wondering if what happens is that we do see occasionally in areas.

C

Where we might have a higher density, we start to see on street parking. I don't know because they.

C

Were just said, they're concerned about it and they could be concerned about. You know future adus. That.

C

We would want to make sure that they have to park on site. I don't know what's happening, but remember.

D

They're going to need a conditional use permit to deal with any of those particular instances.

J

So, just as an example, if you did 10 units in one building and they were over 750 square feet, you'd.

D

Only need 13 spaces today in the existing zoning if they were all adus which we're not talking.

D

About multiple adus, but using this methodology, there'd be 20 spaces. That's a that's more! That's.

D

A 50 increase in parking requirements in the adu, as drafted today versus what was here last month.

D

I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm just wanting to be clear. There's there's been an effort here to bump.

D

It up considerably 50 increase in what would normally be required. We go from three spaces.

D

Often to four as a mandatory minimum, 750 or more, which is the bulk of the adus. um So I would say.

I

That we're talking about neighborhoods, I'm not talking about downtown, I'm not talking about.

I

10 unit apartment, I'm not talking about 21 micro units at the stadium, I'm talking about the elwyn.

I

Park neighborhood, I'm talking about panaway manor neighborhood, I'm talking about middle.

I

Road neighborhood um not downtown, and I think that you know when I watched the discussion.

I

um Where people from west end yards came back and said, we don't have enough parking based on your.

I

Parking regulations that if we have a two-bedroom apartment, they want two cars. That's what I'm.

I

Looking at that's urban environment, though we're back in the urban environment talking about west.

I

End yards yeah, okay! Well, you can explain it and I can hear what you're saying and I can tell you.

I

That I don't agree with you and I think that if it's got, if you've got two bedrooms, no matter.

I

How much you wish everybody was on bicycles right now in 2022, if you have two bedrooms and you're.

I

Renting to someone for twenty five hundred dollars a month, it's probably very likely not.

I

Going to be a family, it's going to be two single people that are living in that apartment with.

I

Their two cars and they're going to be parking in neighborhoods, not downtown. That's what I'll say.

I

About parking, I guess we can agree to disagree. Maybe I don't agree with that. So uh page 10.

I

And I read 10 8 14 41., the dadu shall not have more than two bedrooms and shall not be larger.

I

Than 750 square foot gross floor area, except as permitted through a conditional use permit, does.

I

That mean that you can have more than two bedrooms with a conditional use. Permit that's what it says.

B

No, it's just yeah here.

C

Up to 600 square feet, I think it's a good point. Maybe we split the sentence that should not have.

D

More than two bedrooms of the period and then it shall not be larger than 750 square feet.

D

Good, thank you. I mean, I think it's good uh is everybody else. It's a minimal change, yeah.

B

It means clarification, yeah yep did you get that rick well shouldn't it just say.

E

If we I would, I would actually change it to say the dadu shall not be larger than.

E

750 square feet, except it's permitted, so take away the have not have more.

E

Than two bedrooms, because earlier in the document it says in no case.

E

Sure yeah right so take away still not have more than two bedrooms.

D

Where is it, everybody can see it quickly here it's on the.

A

B

Oh, that's yeah. um Is it the definition, maybe maybe we took it out, I think yeah. It should.

D

Be in the general, it should be in the general right again, it's the top says the same thing. No.

D

That's the one we're talking about yeah brought up. We should add it to two uh 20. additional use.

C

Pyramid, I don't see it struck through anywhere, though so. The top of page eight is what I think.

D

You referred to originally, no, I saw it on the top of page 10, but it says the same time off.

I

Of page eight, so I was asked for diversity. I think what we should do is we should put should.

E

Not have more than two veterans in the general standards or anything yeah, so it applies to else.

B

Yeah yeah so then we'll be removing it from page, eight and ten and then putting.

I

It in there under the general, so it applies that we can look. We might find it because.

I

You're 10.81.20, I didn't understand, yes, that makes more sense yep and then we can take it.

E

Away from the individual standards for ads because we have it in the individual, but it.

B

Should just be for it's general standards for all very good. Let's start some pictures, yeah.

I

um On page 11, the 22 feet, yep.

I

If, if the I appreciate it coming down I'll say that um will would 22 feet if.

I

They're without dormers yeah allow for living space. On the on the third floor.

D

It could limited living space, it would be, what would be very, it would be challenging you'd only.

D

Have eight feet to the ridge? Typically, if you're going to have parking on the ground floor in the.

D

Instance, where you have first of all, you couldn't have a three-story adu unless it was the size of.

D

A garden shed on the on the ground so think of a two-car garage 22 by 22 is pretty standard 24 by.

D

24 is is uh the sort of maximum for two-car garage, so imagine 22 by 22, it's say: 500 square feet. It's.

D

484 but let's round it to 500 square feet, so the first floor in a structure that would be 22 feet.

D

Tall would be parking and covered parking, which I would see as a benefit to the neighborhood than.

D

Having a commercial parking lot with four or five spaces in front of a house or beside it,.

D

But that's an aesthetic argument: if you put the cars on the ground floor of the first 500 square,.

D

Feet it leaves 500 square feet in the second floor, there'd be the ability to go in a limited fashion,.

D

In that attic, if you have 22 feet, it barely works at 20 feet, it doesn't work and then you create all.

D

Kinds of funky roof forms that are often awkward looking compared to the principal structure.

D

You can't do gables, for example, without them looking like ranch houses in neighborhoods. That.

D

Aren't branches you would have flat roof buildings. I think the only architecturally appropriate roof.

D

With a 20-foot building would be a hip roof like a like, a federal at the ronald may, or one of these.

D

Old federal buildings that have the hip roof, where they don't have any habitable space that might be.

D

Vaulted ceilings in the second floor that would be appropriate, so I would argue if this thing went to.

D

20 that only hip roofs would be allowed on that uh two-story structure. So we don't create odd. Looking.

D

uh Buildings with shed roofs, flat, roofs or really shallow, pitched roofs because of the restriction.

D

Of being at 20 feet, you typically are going to have nine feet per floor to build that carriage.

D

House one foot for the floor structure eight feet for the code, so nine nines. Eighteen, you.

D

Know on a pitched roof, I think everybody knows by now, given the last set of zoning amendments on a.

D

Pitched roof you measure to the middle flat roof you measure to the top, so the care character of.

D

Portsmouth in its residential neighborhoods are not flat. Roofs, they're, pitched roof structures.

D

Whether they're garden sheds or houses, so that's why I went with 22 instead of 20, because it was.

D

Funny, oh sorry, you know you might imagine twice so if we were kicking numbers around when it was 25.

D

And I feel like 22 is a fair place to land. It may allow some limited uh space. We could also say.

D

um There's no dormers uh and keep it at 22, so we don't screw up the root forms because we're afraid.

D

Someone's going to live there, if you had, uh if you had 22 feet, you could have a window in the gable.

D

If you had a pitched roof like most of the houses in portsmouth and you could you could do something.

D

Up there in a very limited way and maybe put some skylights on the on the roof, but maybe not.

D

Dormers I mean these are things to talk about, but I think what I want to avoid is choosing a number.

D

That makes everybody comfortable but creates abominations architecturally that we didn't.

D

Expect would happen um so that was what I was trying to do with the 22, which I I put that number.

D

In there and did a lot of drawings to address the issue so there's the question of dormers.

D

uh Versus hip roofs, if we push it down, but I don't think a hip roof is going to work everywhere.

I

I heard about the the massing and the look of massing and the.

I

um You know the ability to be peering out your third floor windows into.

I

Someone's backyard, which you never could before you know, so that's where that height.

I

Concerns me, and so you know um I mean two feet doesn't seem like a lot, but it can be.

I

A lot if someone can be living in their third floor peering down at someone else's backyard.

I

And that seems to be something that comes up when the planning board hears. These is that.

I

They don't want, you know the butters, don't want people peering into their backyard. So.

I

Perhaps you could talk further about that I well. I would only say that anybody putting an accessory.

D

Dwelling in it in a detached structure, that's two stories with a flat: roof is peering into.

D

Anybody's backyard, when that maximum height of a fence is six feet, you know you're going to be 16.

D

Feet above the the neighbor's yard, so I I think I think we just you know I'd like to think we could.

D

Put limited dormers not on the property line side of the neighbor and maybe just skylights.

D

Or something on the side, that's closest to a neighbor. That would be a fair compromise to.

D

Allow some limited usable space up there without feeling like you're living in a tunnel. I feel.

D

Better so I'll work on that. If it's something you got, it's not a big. I brought up amendment before.

D

I think I support it, but um well I'm just trying just thinking out loud right now.

B

In our principles of all this, privacy is one of the things that you know is part of our purpose.

B

Is to make sure we don't ruin lose that privacy, so if dormers are always going to be a conditional.

B

Use permit, then that gives flexibility to the board to say no, you can't dorm her out on a side.

B

That's on a property line, but maybe we'll let you do it on a side. That's going to your own backyard.

B

Or something like that, I believe we already have you don't meet the setbacks right, yeah right so.

B

You know if you're right, so I guess if they would always think that's already sort of built into the.

D

Flexibility for decision, but maybe we could maybe we could add, given we're making a few adjustments.

D

Here, anyway, we could add some language to make it clear to the decision makers, who likely won't.

A

Be sitting here understanding what it means that they should be looking at that aspect and.

D

Rendering a decision- so that's that's a good. We can make that.

I

I

Otis um to the uh the approval um by right, um I I think that it's obvious that you, uh you know.

I

That you kind of pushed it out into the front yard versus being in the bushes in the backyard.

I

For anybody that didn't want their neighbors to know that this was going to be happening.

I

um But I people had mentioned it at the last meeting. um The question of some type of notice.

I

Being mailed to direct debutters, either side front and back, and I heard beverly at one.

I

Point say that you had maybe one or two since you've been here since january. That would have.

I

Been approvals by right anyway, there weren't too many- I I can't actually I'll be honest with you.

C

Let me see attached, I haven't had I'm trying to think of well. My point, I don't know I'm not.

I

Trying, I don't think so, numbers I don't think I actually have I'll be honest. Okay, if I said.

I

That I apologize, that makes my point even more so if you've got almost none or maybe one in a year.

I

um That's going to qual is there a reason why you can't just send a letter to four people? I just I.

I

Just don't understand why that seems to be such a sticking point. I I heard the a butter notice.

I

In the you know, I understand legally, there may be some ramifications, then don't make it in a butter.

I

Notice call it something else, call it a letter to a neighbor, you know whatever you need to call.

I

It so that it doesn't legally tie you up, but if you have someone who has an apartment, let's say.

I

um In a neighborhood and the next door, neighbor is going to be doing something. You know how many.

I

Landlords drive by their apartments every month, not necessarily especially if you live out of.

I

Town, how many people in town are, you know own houses and they leave for the winter.

I

And they're gone in florida for six months, not driving by they're. You know not at home to see.

I

That, and the only way they're going to know is, if somebody sends them something. I really think.

I

You need to go back and look at this. um You know, I think I will check with the legal department.

B

To see whether or not we can legally do that, I just want to make sure and clear it with them.

B

um But maybe what I could suggest is that a letter size picture of the actual sign that would get.

B

Posted could be mailed to them. That would then just be the same notice just in a different.

B

Manner and let me check with them as to whether or not I mean we have friendly amendments right.

I

So certainly we can find oh, this can still change even friends at least four, and it's got multiple.

B

Well, I'm just talking about, we can find a way to friendly, do it so that it's not necessarily tying.

I

You up legally but you're, sending something to a butters. Something needs to go to those directive.

I

Butters, I'm sure, legally, you can find someone I'll talk to the city attorney. Okay, thank you.

I

um I don't have any comments on assisted living because.

I

To be quite honest, the discussion ran through so quickly that I don't really even understand what.

I

You're doing I will say that uh you never defined on that document and s or p. So I know you know.

I

What it means, but it took me halfway through your very quick discussion, to figure out what an s p.

I

Were I hope, that's written in your document will be written in your document somewhere.

B

um Yeah, I mean part of our code as a whole. We have not permitted permitted or special.

B

Exceptions but you're right for the red lines. It's not clear so um and- and maybe I don't know.

I

Maybe you could just have more of a discussion. It just seems like it was like boy that was quite.

I

A discussion in three minutes or less on assist and- and I don't know because I still don't really.

I

Understand I know that you're trying to allow for more in just in more areas in more areas.

I

um But were there other things, maybe that needed to be discussed in relationship to.

I

That, because it just sort of seemed like you were switching n's and s's and p's in neighborhoods.

I

And that's all you were looking at and so it it just felt rushed and it it felt like there.

I

Wasn't really much discussion that even I understood um and then the last thing is.

I

I really wish that this committee could find some way of getting these materials out earlier.

I

um I've been saying this since the beginning. I know everybody's busy. I understand that, but if.

I

We're creating committees as a city if the city council is creating committees and we don't have.

I

The time to get the information out in a timely fashion, maybe we shouldn't have the committee. I.

I

Mean you know what I mean like it just it. It needs to get out sooner than this. So you know.

I

You have a group of people here that have been very devoted to coming once a month and talking.

I

To you and giving you feedback, which I know is what you wanted in this process, um but for us.

I

Not to get that material, I you know nick sent it to me um yesterday at late yesterday afternoon. I.

I

Received it, um that's not a lot of time to go through things, and I just I wish that you know.

I

We have a consultant working on this. I'm sure that he's not leaving it until like the day before the.

I

Meeting to to fix it, usually it was just changed a couple that we were still cleaning it up. So.

C

Right, so I'm just asking that you, you know I mean, is.

C

Nick had changes yesterday that we were responding that you care about. That's not my business, not my.

I

Problem, um just I'm just asking you to please, you know the governance committee gets their red lines.

I

Out a week before I just would would like it to come out sooner than 12 hours, hopefully with our.

B

New position person that well and also keep in mind that, when this gets to the planning board.

C

Because this is a working group and it you know, but when it gets to the planning board, where I.

C

Think there'll be some real deliberation and even when it gets to the council, they'll it'll.

C

Be published with the packet a week out, so I think that this is a a new sort of working group, but I.

C

I think that we'll get I mean the packets go out almost almost a week in advance. The.

C

Planning board, so I don't think they should go out for this committee. If you would like.

I

Feedback from from residents, it should go out more than 12 hours before. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Out and excuse myself for a moment, yeah.

K

Good morning elizabeth ratter property owner 159 mcdonough street, um I did not do my homework.

K

Because I was on vacation and even if I had gotten it a week early, I wouldn't even had time.

K

To read it, I did want to have somebody clarify for me. I agree with everything that liza said.

K

As a property owner, I can tell you if there are two bedrooms: there are two people, two two cars.

K

So even one bedrooms have two cars sometimes, so I think the parking in general needs to be reviewed.

K

There is a lot of conflict in parking generally in the portsmouth zoning code. We could talk about.

K

That for about a month, I understand the heights. I would like out talk to see uh stipulations.

K

Reminders that that there are other things in regards to the skylights and dormers to see other.

K

Ordinances, I agree with that. I like what nick said about that I 100 percent agree with somehow I like.

K

Your idea of the sign I did want to know um that I would like to see for the next meeting what the.

K

Sign is going to say because, as a citizen, when I look at a sign- and it says if you want to appeal.

K

This you have to go to some whatever I would rather have the signs say simply if you have.

K

Any questions or comments regarding this please contact whatever you want it to do, because I think.

K

The appeal process is something that sounds very scary to a citizen, as opposed to saying.

K

If you have any questions or comments about this, please contact whoever it is. They want to contact.

K

um Because I think a lot of times, we put a lot of stuff on these signs and nobody has any clue what.

K

They mean, and then they don't bother and getting people to participate. Obviously is an issue.

K

um I agree with getting the information sooner, but I understand how that works, because I've.

K

Often talked to people at the last minute, and they said oh we'll fix that before we before.

K

The meeting so I would like to have assisted living clarified as to what is being changed.

K

They it shows gra, grb, grc gateway, mro and lt l1 and l2.

K

So, where is the line where you wanted them all to stay special exception.

B

So why wouldn't you look at this chart it's easier to look at? Oh, I thought this was easier.

K

Myself but yeah so gra, grc g, the gateway. How about mro and at cd4l1 is the same as gra.

B

uh It's a special exception: already, oh, it is or for centers. Yes, okay! Well, it's not on the list.

K

So our living home is per it's permitted, but not for centers. Okay, centers are the.

B

Bigger ones: okay, so you're, making you're leaving living home you're, making foreign.

K

So centers are being made left a special exception, except for.

B

Where they already are permitted and they're, adding permitted to g1 and g2.

K

I have a look here.

G

Yes, centers are only currently allowed in two places, so we're adding g1 and g2 to the two.

B

Places they're currently out permitted okay and you're, leaving them as special.

K

Exceptions for all the rest correct and then the the homes you're making them permitted.

K

Pretty much everywhere, except for in general business, so now we're going with gra grb grc.

B

And ghmh they're going to be special exceptions. Okay, so we are. Those are.

K

Going to be yeah and then at cd5 is where you're going to switch it to premiere. Okay,.

K

All right, I think, that's it for me. Thank you very much for clarifying that. Thank you. Anyone else.

J

Good morning, everybody are we supposed to say our name like we do for the record greg.

J

My hannah portsmouth three pheasant lane, ah let's see where was I at just to clarify the.

J

Progress, I think beverly mentioned it, um but this at some point. What point will the draft not final.

J

Go to planning board, uh I'm hoping that, after everyone's done public speaking today that we.

B

Will make a decision if we move it, uh we have to move it to city council. Who then recommends it.

B

To planning board and then that's when it goes to planning board, so um that will be what will.

B

Happen next, if we decide to move forward with the changes that we've talked about, so it goes.

B

um So if that's the case, we could be at the november 14th city council meeting to refer to the.

B

Planning board for its december meeting not to be argumentative, but I think it's supposed to go to.

J

Planning, first by state rsa, uh we've always sent it to city council for referral too. That's okay,.

J

But rsa10.152 says all petitions or requests for amendments to zoning ordinance shall be referred.

J

To the planning board for its consideration and then the board, and then the board shall submit.

J

Its recommendation concerning such petitions and requests to the city council I'd like it to go.

J

To planning board first, actually you just read it: it says should be referred to the planning boards.

B

Out there publicly for like two months for people to our whole month or, however long.

B

The period it seems that that slows the process down unnecessarily. We don't want to change the.

D

Zoning then it won't get changed. That's why it goes that way. They're the gatekeeper you guys.

D

Could do whatever you want the planning board, they don't have to pass it, they could say we don't want.

B

To change the zoning and we're not going to refer to the planning board member, it sounds like it's.

J

Wasting city council's time, but uh needless to say, anyhow um I'll reiterate what liza said about the.

J

Public notice, on the adus I mean I'm a landlord and putting a sign out front. It's not adequate. So.

J

Your idea of mailing the actual notice, that's supposed to be posted out front to the forum.

J

Butters is a great idea. Thank you very much. um The last thing I wanted to talk about was parking is.

J

Not working real well, the way we're doing it. It seems to create a lot of um trouble.

J

Rounding up rounding down the setting the other thing, and I just want to throw this out there.

J

This is just an opening thing: we're not going to talk about them, I'll, be done after I say it, but.

J

We should move parking out of zoning into site plan review like a lot of other people. Do it.

B

I agree, I think parking needs to be reviewed as a whole as to how we handle it, but I think.

J

It's just a console separate. Well, that's not I'm just beginning that whole separate as whatever.

J

It needs to be its own, separate thing that we take on as parking. It would be easier and and.

J

And I don't maybe say playing review is not the right place for it, but well. The problem is yeah.

B

Seems to agree, I mean you've been doing this a long time and now you're, actually even laughing.

J

About it and that seems to agree, I smile every time someone mentions parking because I feel.

B

Like that's what I've talked about 90 of my life in the 10 years, I've been around the city.

B

Maybe we can all agree on something we can move it someplace that we can agree on and make it easier.

J

For all of us to work on, that's all I got yeah. Thank you happy friday. We'll take a look at that.

L

2Ah uh south street um first thing: I'd like to address is what um liza and greg did on.

L

The butters notice I've asked for this butters notice. I think it's a good idea. I don't think.

L

You should go around this by administrative for approval at all, and um I can tell you I will be.

L

Speaking against this going forward, if there is no notice to the abutters, that's number one.

L

On the materials not going out ahead of time on all other committees and boards, um 24-hour.

L

Notice is required, uh and I know because we asked previously yesterday they were not out whether.

L

You're in the middle or whatever put something out for us to look at um please on that one.

L

Okay and I'll go now we'll go to parking, so um I'm gonna kind of recite numbers here, because.

L

um I've checked cross, checked the numbers that were in here and to uh mr trainer's uh point here.

L

So on the chart on, I don't know what page it is. So we've got uh 10 1112.20.

L

Gives you the calculation of the parking spots that is above the chart? That is.

L

Number ten one one one, two three one parking parking requirements and residential uses.

L

The calculation reflected of rounding up is not reflected in your chart.

L

So that is confusing very confusing, so my question is: can we just put it in there? People look at the.

L

Chart they don't go and look at what's above this and it's still confusing- and we still have in here.

L

0.5 amount of spaces right above it, you have your roundup. So that's one thing, so you have a conflict.

L

Right there and then, if I go back to your actual site development plan standards, number 10, 1112.

L

O calculation, um you actually went back in and changed everything back in the original part.

L

Where everything is so, it's changing two spots, so the question is why: why are we making this so.

L

Confusing here, if why doesn't the chart match what your, what the, what the code says right above there.

D

The sharp meaning, the other section of the code. Why are you talking about the parking section.

L

The parking section, why does not section and I'm going to just spit out the numbers? 10 1 1.

L

2.20, where it says fractional spacious will be rounded up match what you have in the chart on.

L

Ten one one one, two three one one, because this has been written to be more restrictive than.

D

The charge, I think, what she's talking about what you mentioned earlier, which is, if you have three.

E

500 square foot units- you add up those three, you get two, you get two 1.5, so you get, you don't get.

E

Two, you get two right, so it's so the numbers in the chart are for each individual unit in the.

E

Building, so you it's different, if you have a one unit building otherwise it'd be no, it would make.

D

Zero sense to have any fractions if everything grounded right so you're also confusing here.

L

With with square feet, it's the same thing that what liza said you've got 500 square feet is.

L

0.5 right, actually it's one! No, not if you have three 500 square foot units you've got three.

E

Times 0.5, which is 1.5, which rounds up to two, you do the rounding after the aggregation around.

C

The building you know around each unit, yeah you aggregate and then you round up. Okay, so.

D

If you do an attached, adu and and the main house is over 750 and the adu is under 500 before this.

D

Was written the way it is today, you'd only need three spaces for that adu and the uh two spaces.

D

Be what you get sorry now you'd need three. Now you need three yeah. So now you need three. This.

D

Is fifty percent more than what that chart says? You need very confusing. I understand my question.

L

Is can we standardize here? Can you actually make the code that is 15 years old match what we should.

L

Have here? Well, it's actually three or four years old, the co, the latest version of the code, those.

D

Numbers aren't that old, maybe they're five well they're. Well before I retired the way the chart of.

E

The chart in the ordinance as well before about 15 years right, we've changed. We came up with the half.

D

And the one whatever they've been around a while relevant, whatever we standardized. What, if you said.

E

In in this section, on accessory dwelling units just to get away from that chart in 810-81426.

E

What, if he's just said, at least just to get rid of that first, I get rid of the first class and just.

E

Said at least one off street parking spaces should be provided for an adu with up to 750 square feet.

E

Yeah, I just changed it because I was making the edits from this meeting. Yes, oh you added.

D

In something yeah yeah, yes, this is probably common or so we're trying to figure out do.

A

You care whether we do it does that make sense your concern yeah. We won't reference that table.

D

We won't reference because it's confusing, perhaps we're just when we go to the table right well, the.

L

Other thing I'd like to see: is it consistently applied through your whole? Your whole uh code.

L

Here because I've seen uh within the last week, a developer come up and present that table and.

L

Said we are following what you say and their interpretation is based on what they want to.

L

See and not based on which part of the code right. What you're talking about is what we just talked.

B

About which is that the parking hole section needs to be reworked right, we're not doing.

B

That right now we're just talking about what was in front of us. So we will take a look for.

D

This right were we working it for this, but so we won't go so the error it's still going to.

L

Be there we're not changing the parking standards right now, we're changing the adus and we can fix.

B

The parking within the adus, but I can't fix all of the parking at this moment. Okay, I'm gonna, move on.

L

um There's a conflict also on 10 814 and I think I was following, but I'm.

L

Not sure because the numbers weren't mentioned ten, eight one, four, forty one.

L

uh In there you have a dad, you shall not be more than two bedrooms and shall not.

L

Be larger than 750 square feet of area, then it says, and if the blue is a change except.

L

That's permitted through the conditional use permit provided in 10 440 use number 1.224.

L

Man, you guys can we're taking out okay. I know I'm not done so. Then below you actually go. You say up.

L

Up top, you can't be larger than 700 square feet and then you go and put in ten eight one. Four four.

L

One one in no case shall a d: a d would be larger than a thousand square feet, and then you keep.

L

Going [music] and say it can't be larger than the principal structure, so as a normal person. Looking.

L

At this, this is very confusing to me and it looks like you have a conflict between the number 41.

L

And number four one one in here, so I ask you just to look at that because it's it's confusing to me.

M

And one into the first one: it's only allowed in certain areas, which is why that's because.

B

There's only certain districts that allow it to go up up to a thousand, and it has.

A

It's based off of lot area, which is why it's a subset, yeah. Okay. Could that be noted somehow.

D

Well, it says: use number 1.224 right goes to use table yeah, so the use table then tells you that.

L

So the general public has to go and cross-reference all this still confused, yeah, okay,.

L

um Next one, uh I just had a conflict here: 10 814-433.

L

um You say the building height and I I think this is the same as what liza brought up in the.

L

One above it and ten eight one, four three, four three: two: the building height of the.

L

Entire building containing the dadu shall be no greater than 22 feet and then the next one says.

L

When the building containing the dadu is taller than the principal building whoa, uh it's required.

L

Setback from all property lines shall be increased by the difference in the building height between.

L

The dadu and the principal building right! So if you have a branch that is just a one-story.

B

Building but you have a garage with an adu on top of it, it has to be a certain distance set back and.

B

Within that from the principal dwelling unit, but it also pushes it back farther from the property.

C

Line as well, so basically we are allowing taller buildings taller buildings in the back yep taller.

B

Than the principal, but it can't be more than the 22 feet yeah, and this was to take advantage of.

B

The fact that some people do have ranchosis, so if you have a ranch house, 10 feet tall right.

L

Okay, that to me, that's that's still really confusing and uh the last.

L

Comment on 10814-435, you still have the 2 000 square foot in here and the thousand.

L

It's just my opinion, but this is too big. Some of this is bigger than my the footprint of my house.

L

So you're adding another house to the area I am in an area over on south street, where I could.

L

Possibly have three of these a butt to my property, which would close in everything which would be.

L

Take away my privacy take away everything that I bought bought the land, for. I would also tell.

L

You when I bought this property and uh nick knows this, because I had to go for permits.

L

um I was building a uh an addition on the back and my contractor was in the hole putting the.

L

Putting the framing up, I had a woman from the back side come over and start screaming at my.

L

Contractor what are you doing your apartments, blah blah blah blah there, because we on privacy.

L

People want privacy, that's why they build these, that's why they buy what they buy and I think.

L

We're kind of losing this in our consideration here and it's all over in this. This small area.

L

This size is is very, very large for where you're trying to shoehorn these things in uh one last one.

L

I think I had or that that much that's it um again. To reiterate, please look at your parking. It's.

L

Still confusing and it needs to be standardized and I'm sorry, I'm not going to give up on the.

L

Abutters notices with the the admin I think people need to be notified. Thank you. Thank you.

B

B

All right we need to so we have um a short list of possible changes. um I'm going to check with.

B

The legal department about whether or not we could add to mail, you know copies of the sign. I.

B

Don't want us to go to have to write something new, but whatever the sign works out to be whether or.

B

Not those could be mailed to direct butters and ask whether or not that is a legal thing to do.

B

um Will work on getting a sample of the sign to move forward with this, so that people know exactly.

B

What it says on it, um rick's going to fix this. Just the two bedroom uh yeah and it's a general.

C

Requirements and remove it from the other room and I've taken away that introductory phrase on.

E

The on the parking, yep yep and remove the parking table reference yep and I'm going to look at it.

B

Probably I'm going to look at the dormer issue uh within the side yard setback on the 22 foot.

D

Structure, okay and I'm also going to for what it's worth, take a look at the 2000 square foot. The last.

D

Comment that was made given we've made adjustments to the height of the building. That could be maybe.

D

Tightened up a little bit on the footprint on the cold floor. Well, 2000 is not the footprint.

E

It's a gross floor area, understood I'm going to give it just another pass: okay, what it's worth.

D

Because I think it's a comfortable number yeah are you talking about two? Are you talking about the 2.

C

000 square feet of it that it's in the whole building right with a haircut still has that.

B

Is a minimum of what I mean? It's still governed to the it's still governed by the building coverage.

C

The setbacks and the height the restrictions of that district, so this was a way to solve for and.

D

It can't be more than 75 of the principles truck, but I think it's worth giving it one more pass.

D

uh Since we're looking at some other stuff, okay, if we could make those changes and adjustments.

B

Does everyone feel comfortable moving this um to planning board or to the city council city.

B

Council, together yep all right, we have consensus, so I will get online. You all can get on your.

B

Parts and then uh we'll move this forward to its first public hearing to the referral the referral.

B

Which then goes to a public hearing everybody else? This is enough confusion. We will move this if I.

B

Can get all these changes in the next the next by early next week we can make the um november 14th.

B

City council meeting to refer us to the planning board, hopefully for december and to bring it back.

C

For our first reading so that we don't have to do that as a separate action right, yeah just to.

M

Clarify there's no public hearing on this at that city council meeting. No there's public comments.

B

So it'll be in the package. If somebody wants to talk about it sure but there'll be a public.

B

Hearing at planning board, yep, okay and then a second one at the city council. When it comes.

D

Back right- and it comes back again so actually three well two- they can talk there's only one.

B

Public hearing there's three readings. Yes, uh we could listen to it three different times, but yeah.

B

um And it depends on whether or not how quickly they move it through. So that's where we go. It.

B

Feels comfortable with that, would that be for both this and assisted living? Yes, yep based off of the.

B

Changes that we talked about I'd like to send both of them, and uh so I think you were not here when I.

B

Made the initial announcements when we started the meeting, so I will repeat them again: we've.

B

Received a 250 000 grant that we applied for to hire a community housing navigator position which.

B

um Beverly was so grand in getting the application done so that person is going.

B

To be here, staffed at the city for two years uh to be able to help us do all outreach to.

B

The community and do everything housing with the with the staff so and then we just also received.

B

Another eighty two thousand dollars to help pay for a consultant to help us with phase three. So.

B

um With all that in mind and lots of celebrations around the holiday season coming up, I was going.

B

To suggest that we cancel our december landings committee meeting and we'll let the new position.

B

Hopefully, we'll have someone hired, maybe by the first of the year and then hit the ground.

B

Running with phase three for this work group in january, what's everyone think about that.

D

It works. I also need to announce that sarah lachance is no longer going to have the ability to.

B

Join us from the edc, so I am working on recruiting another edc member. If you join us as well.

C

So I think the first things that will come back will be that adu handbook for review.

C

By the williams committee and then also- and that doesn't need to be- I think, adopted in a.

C

Formal way, really just a reflection of whatever the adopted ordinance ends up at and then the.

C

Public involvement plan the uh housing coordinator will navigate will be working with unh to develop.

C

A public involvement plan for phase three and there will be some recruit and a market study.

C

We'll precede that which is not uncommon, to try and make sure that the incentives are calibrated.

C

To actually be utilized so, as those two things will be, the work of I think the next six to.

C

Six to eight months and then you'll start to see the drafts come forward. Okay,.

B

Okay, so we will start on that work, hopefully, in january, all right with that with no other.

B

Comments, I will conclude the meeting. Everyone have a great day enjoy the beautiful weather.