City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Legislative Sub Committee, 31 Jan 2022

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From YouTube: 1.31.2022 Legislative Subcommittee

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1.31.2022 Legislative Subcommittee

A

So I think that means to take off the top of my head. There we go.

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um So, thank you, everyone for agreeing to be on the legislative subcommittee.

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um We have this agent or this agenda today, uh we'll go through and we're gonna kind of tackle.

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uh Item number three uh most, but I just wanted to set out some. I guess expectations of what we can.

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Be doing on the committee there's a lot of work that needs to be done. A lot of work that we.

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Will do and see no results from, but still needs to be done and then I'm hoping that there's a.

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Desire from folks in this community to be engaged, as you want to be, you know both in this committee.

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But in concord um as well jane is we're. Gonna go through uh go through the the legislative.

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Principles and and how that works, but it would be my imagine, or I would like to see that.

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Anybody that wants to you know even if you're, not on the legislative subcommittee, but.

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We will be as close to the legislation as as possible, goes and and speaks uh and conquered.

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It's not uh hard, I'm sure that you've done it in some capacity in the past, but I think it would.

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Be great to have portsmouth, you know, working with our uh house delegation and senator.

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To you know pick where we can be effective um and that's something that uh it's it's.

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A goal of mine to make sure that that you guys feel as though.

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You have that opportunity to represent the city and we'll try to make some impactful.

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At least remarks, if not you know, hopefully you know change the the course of uh some votes so.

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uh With that just want to say thank you uh for agreeing to do this and then.

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On to the approval of the december 22nd minutes, I'll wait a motion, although you guys weren't.

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There but I'll wait, a motion if we feel like we can approve those.

B

We were not present so yep. So what do we do with this? Well, they can stay drafts. You know they're.

C

Posted to the website, if you, if you, if you want to, I think how it works with city council is, is.

C

You get them before the end of the term. Is that correct, or does it carry over karen the minutes.

D

No, they don't carry over, they don't carry over. Let's prepare the december 20th.

D

Minutes for the next council meeting, so it's my understanding that I think we could take these.

D

And keep them on file yeah. If the group does not choose to vote on them and they still exist.

D

As minutes that just have not been voted, yeah they're, just not final finalized and they're.

C

Already posted to the website and if I could vote or motion things, I would but I I can't so.

D

Right and and while I and if, while I have the mic, I just want to say um to the point about.

D

The mayor's suggestion that people can feel free to go and testify and being conquered.

D

There is no one better than jane ferrini to help prep all of you for whatever matter it.

D

Is with other whatever subject in whatever venue she's so don't feel intimidated by having to go.

D

Because she will set you up beautifully yeah, I mean it's not a requirement, but I feel like the.

A

uh My expectation was the legislative subcommittee two years ago. Was, you know there would be there.

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Was more opportunities actually go and and do some things, um and so uh that's my.

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That's that's my hope, so I guess on the approval of the 20, so we I'm not going to just keep them.

B

As draft and they're posted all right, we could move to keep them on the website. Yeah.

B

Okay, will I hear that emotion, yeah move that we put those on the website. Second, all in favor.

A

Great um the next, so this is kind of the heart and what john you'll notice that.

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There's a difference in the last council and what we're going to be proposing to do here.

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Hopefully we can move forward with this, um but jane is going to walk through the legislative.

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Principles and procedures for testimony. I hope that uh folks had a chance to review it and.

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The goal here is this is to make sure that we can agree.

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That these are principles that we want to bring forth um and um and if there are other changes to.

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This I'd say that we change them, but in the future so that we can say you know working.

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Collectively and saying: okay, what are some, uh what are some changes that we'd like to see.

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In here, um but this is so that two reasons one um you'll find that.

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Concord right now moves very quickly in terms of you know, there's a lot of them.

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They try to move quickly in order to have a.

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To bring bills forth et cetera, uh we might not always have the chance to come and meet.

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Collectively, as a group, as we have not for all of the letters that jane drafted and I signed.

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um The uh it's important to have you know an agreement around the uh the principles.

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And happy to have a discussion on.

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Those right now, I guess, has everybody had a chance to read through these? Is there anything.

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That we have questions on right now in terms of the principles for legislative policies.

B

I didn't go back and look at last year last terms: were there significant changes, not no.

C

The only change is in the legislative procedures and submission of testimony.

C

But these legislative positions were uh um these are the same since february of 2019.

C

So these are identical, they all have they all rang. True, yes,.

A

The difference was and jane correct me. If I'm wrong is that the last two years we wanted to.

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Make sure that we pretty much voted on every single bill that came before we wanted to.

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Have a discussion on any time we would go and speak and then covet hit, and it was like almost.

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Impossible to do anything so I'm hopeful that kovit recedes, but I also want to make sure that.

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Jane is best able to help us prepare for these um on the principles and if we have her.

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Be able to submit testimony right testimony it it. It helps that's not to say that we can't.

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If we see a bill and say hey, let's talk about this because you know some of these are.

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Somewhat in conflict, uh when we might want to say you know, advocate to maintain.

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Local authority, you know it might have something you know that doesn't always align with affordable.

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Housing, you know there's been examples like adus that have not. You know, aligned with that. So.

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There could be opportunities to have a discussion of you know how we aligning you know competing.

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Principles here um and that's where we'd want to have a conversation and jane would be you.

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Know flagging that to to us and our and our in our group uh to be able to do so, so I feel confident.

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That we can well I'll leave it a discussion. I won't state my opinion after I already did, but.

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Can I ask you a question of jane? These are no particular order correct. These are not.

C

Prioritized no they're not prioritized in any way, and that's what we look to the this committee to.

C

Is to prioritize where, where this committee wants to focus its effort- and we certainly.

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Don't commit uh testimony on every single principle, but it allows uh you know us to.

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To, as the mayor said, prepare testimony on certain issues that you know align with these particular.

C

Legislative principles, without the need of having to go to necessarily this committee for formal.

C

Approval of that testimony and the city council, the city council, always gets a copy. Obviously.

C

Anything that we do submit testimony on is on the legislative subcommittee.

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Webpage as well, it's always posted on onto that page as well as distributed to our delegates and.

C

Also to the new hampshire municipal association, so there's a communication. You know people know.

C

When we've done that, but these just evolved over what three four years from 2016, I think councilor.

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Dwyer, who worked for the new hampshire municipal association? They do a very similar thing. They.

C

Adopt these principles so that their staff can go, and you know, take positions and and formulate.

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um You know uh how they're going to you know target their efforts for the legislative session.

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um What's what's kind of new and different, so I don't know if you have any questions on these.

C

Specific principles, but what's new for you to look at, is the procedures for submission of.

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Testimony so that that hasn't been uh before the legislative subcommittee before it was just sort.

C

Of our common practice of how we did things- and it was also in a series of motions that.

C

Like two councils took, you know four years ago, I think um the council had through motions adopted.

C

These principles, but they were never renewed through this committee. So rather than do it.

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Through a motion, I thought it might be more efficient if we adopted the the procedures.

C

For testimony, along with the principles and that way, they're adopted and allows.

C

You know testimony to be submitted under the circumstances set out in the um in the procedures.

B

Yeah, I think it's essential just to be able to be light on our feet. This procedure in place.

B

We were talking before the mayor and city manager arrived about the thousand bills.

B

That are right now gestating, and so you just have to be able to move quickly as those winnow down.

A

Yeah there's a lot of bills out there. You know we probably won't. You know, like you, know the seven or.

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So house, members that are trying to get the new hampshire uh to secede from you know the union.

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Probably you know, I hope we don't have to take a position on that. I hope that that's going to.

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Not be something that that goes forth, but it's a there's a lot of testimony.

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And so a part of this you know if we were to adopt it. um I'd like a.

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Just a conversation of what the members of the the the committee it's early still, but um you.

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Know it's always later for somebody else and in this case it's already waiting for the state house.

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um What priorities we'd like to to see uh us focus on, um or would like? I would be curious if there's.

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If there's uh um initiatives that we would like to uh focus on.

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And it doesn't, you don't have to come up with them now it can be. You know, highlighting to.

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Jane but I'd like to make sure, at least on a high level, where we're talking about that.

E

You know, um I think that one of the critical things is is local control, local authority.

E

And it impacts all these other issues that we're talking about. It impacts our housing.

E

Issues our voting, our procedures, everything because there are a lot of bills right now.

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In concord that are targeting practices that are really locally governed practices.

E

I'm trying to place more restrictions on those things or more rules around things like zoning.

E

For tiny houses we're seeing that kind of.

E

And zoning around airbnbs and so we're seeing, I guess, more intrusion in local control.

E

Than anything you know, I think you could almost take everything they're doing.

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And say that this is this: is where they're going.

E

So to me, that's a real priority is emphasizing that we should leave decisions up to localities.

A

I would agree with that. I also think it's important for us to then lead on some of those.

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Issues at home, because some of those you know, I think I understand you, know the airbnb bill. I.

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Think they want they're frustrated that towns have not acted and created a shadow de facto market.

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That exists outside of that. So where there's a vacuum conker's going to try to fill it up.

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So I think it's also our job from the legislative subcommittee to to help bring things that we see.

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That concord is doing and help our fellow counselors understand that this needs action.

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On our side, if we want to be arguing for local control, we have to do something about that and not.

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Ignore things like airbnb or affordable housing, uh you know tiny homes, because concord is gonna.

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Use a broad brush, um it's just not gonna. It's not gonna. It's not gonna. Do a good job for portsmouth.

A

Assistant mayor anything not right now there all right, counselor, tabor, yeah, wind energy, anything.

B

Down that road, well, looking at our what we talked about at our retreat and some of our priorities.

B

Housing, I think, affordable housing is very much in our wheelhouse as a council.

B

To that end, the language in our principles is support. Incentives relative to the construction.

B

Of affordable housing and I would suggest we might broaden that to support policies that create.

B

Affordable housing, as well as support incentives, anything that we can do on that front and.

B

You know climate, we know.

B

Action on climate is important. It's in our principles, but.

B

In terms of a priority, that's important.

B

Representative samsich is fighting hard to restore new hampshire saves, which is the energy.

B

Efficiency program, so I think we want to keep an eye on that. There's a number of bills about that.

B

And then funding for years we've tried to get a pillow tax. If there's any way, we can do that.

B

It's essential for us as a tourist community, because we bear all the costs of.

B

60 000 people coming here on a weekend. How do we recoup that, um and uh so in terms of priorities,.

B

Housing, climate revenue um and I agree with counselor cook.

B

We're seeing efforts to take away local control, as you say, mayor.

B

Nature abhors a vacuum, so that's a priority too looking at some of the legislation around what.

B

Teachers can and can't do would seem to supplant local school boards. To me.

A

So jane um would a a proper motion be to adopt the principles and procedures and refer to the.

A

Council, for we need a council vote on the second one: correct, yeah, okay, so yeah motion, two that.

C

The motion to approve and recommend to the city council, the um legislative principles.

C

And procedures for testimony and if uh councillor tabor wanted to uh number 17 support incentives to.

A

Support policies and incentives uh relative to the construction of affordable housing is that.

A

Something we should do here or something that we should do at the council before it's. um I don't.

C

Know that anyone sitting would be familiar with, you know what I mean with with these principles, so.

C

I think you could submit these they're brand new to the council, so if you wanted to make the change.

C

Here then, they could be submitted as the committee as the committee sees fit, so I could move that we.

B

We amend principle 17 to include support for policies.

B

That create affordable housing, as well as incentives relative to their construction.

B

I get a second second.

A

C

So that was the amendment and then and then we will have a need to avoid a motion to adopt the.

A

Policies and procedures uh to bring forth to the council so moved. Second, all in favor aye all right.

C

I'm about to just um interject now that that we've had a discussion on the the policies a little bit.

C

um I've started to make a list of some of the issues that you've discussed for for bills. The.

C

Municipal authority, the the zoning changes, there's there's a bunch of those limitations on health.

C

Codes and building codes- that's another authority, one budget impacts, there's a bunch of those and.

C

Sound barriers, workforce housing, energy and right to know so those were sort of.

C

Broad categories that I'd identified in advance- and I wanted to ask the committee.

C

How they would like this information relayed, so what I used to do is have a list and publish it.

C

On the legislative subcommittee website, with a link to the bill itself with a brief description.

C

And kind of a small status statement. So if that's something that this committee would like me to do,.

C

The problem is, there are a thousand bills, so you know, and even on these topics there are.

C

A lot of them, so what I would propose is for the next meeting I'll create that list for your review.

C

And then, if you want to shift priorities or not not have so many bills on only target, maybe a.

C

Couple of bills per category, um but at least I can sort of generate from what you're saying the.

C

Energy, uh the the um other bills relative to local authority um and so put it all there yep, okay, so.

C

That's that's great. It's helped helpful to know. You know that. That's something that I can work on.

C

And can help inform the conversation moving forward um filter cook. uh Can we get like a.

E

I don't know if it's like alerts that something's coming up, that we need to maybe submit a um our.

E

Position in favor or against um via the website so like if uh the mayor is speaking uh on a bill.

E

Or submitting a letter, um I would think it would be helpful if several several city councilors also.

E

Submitted their position in favor or against which you can do through the state website,.

C

Yes, it's very easy to get on the website and just click oppose or support. So.

C

That would be up to this committee, if that is what you would like to do. Normally.

C

We we can probably send the link to the senate or the house calendar when the mayor.

C

Or someone is submitting testimony to the city council and if, if this committee would like to.

C

Elicit support from the other counselors, then an email could go out and say: there's a hearing.

C

At such a date here is the link. The legislative subcommittee is submitting testimony and support.

C

The issue is obviously timing on those things and what specific bill we're supporting.

C

Right exactly and that that that that cause, that requires a little sifting. You know.

E

Do you think it would be helpful? I guess is what I'm asking if people we're submitting.

E

um In favor against based upon our position as a city, I think so I think that's the structure.

C

Of the of the website, you know it specifically asks who you are? It specifically asks if you're.

C

An elected official and it's making it easy just to click, support or oppose, so I think.

C

That's something that you know could be done. um Perhaps when the when the testimony submitted to.

C

The city council, that link would then be added, so you got the prior testimony before we just.

C

Add the link and say you know, um here's the link, um follow the injections and, and you know, submit.

C

Your your opinion, now I don't know if all the city councils would agree. You know what I mean so.

C

It just depends on on. If they didn't agree, then I guess it would be so one. uh I guess.

A

If the city council didn't agree, and they.

A

Voted in opposition to something the legislative subcommittee supported.

A

I guess what would the effects of that be? It would just be their opinion. You know, I think it would be.

C

I think it could be their opinion as an individual or as they I guess after following the procedures.

C

Yeah, I think I think it would be important to to say they're they're, an elected official.

C

um But that this opinion is different than the one taken by the legislative subcommittee.

C

But they're certainly free to submit whatever.

A

It's important that everyone feels as though uh there is.

A

Just the ability to be a part of of this, so um you know- and this will be another.

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Topic: it's a good enough time to bring it up as any on that. If there is something that you feel.

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Strongly about speaking on yourself, there will be opportunities when.

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By just the office of the mayor, declining to speak on that that sends a certain message.

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That I'll look to jane to try to avoid. um But if you know for things where it's.

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Re like not just not required, but when there's an opportunity for you guys to speak, I would.

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Very much like that to be a de facto opportunity for you to feel like you're um you're. Getting that.

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Opportunity and you're supported by jane and you're, supported by the the council, um because.

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There's not um yeah, I mean, if you just don't. If you don't get the shots, you're, not gonna care.

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uh As much about it and want everybody to really care about this and the work we do.

A

Here is important, but also it's you know it's an interesting experience to go to concord and speak.

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And you find that it's really easy and not that hard and jane does all the work and.

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Can drive you up there um and knows that you get free parking with city plates.

C

And you don't have to pay tolls if you have a city all these interesting things. All these interesting.

A

Things and uh but it's a fun experience and I think it it will. You know more than just being.

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Fun, I think uh it will um help you be better at this job on the legislative subcommittee to see.

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What's possible, what's not possible and we can do better as a subcommittee if.

A

It's not just me talking the whole time in concord. Yeah involvement creates commitment.

A

John you're man, a few words there, that's the headline.

A

Okay, so next on the agenda, we have some testimony. That's and we did vote on this.

A

We voted to okay, so next on the agenda is testimony. That's submitted um hotel, occupancy.

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uh Short-Term rentals, um I can.

A

So I'll give the uh the brief update on these and jane. Please correct me: um hotel occupancy.

A

This one was killed pretty quickly, but it's living another life as a study committee, it's.

A

Going to be attached to a bill um up there- and this was you- know, opportunity where we.

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Had you know decent dialogue again, there's so much going on right now in concord that.

A

Good legislation is tough to really see the light of day, and it's so partisan that this.

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Is viewed um as a tax and not a fee, and so we've got to remember that this is a this is a fee, but.

A

I think it it will progress to a study and where the study is going to focus on.

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At least, I think is, um is the property tax co uh sufficiently accounting for all of the.

A

Costs that a hotel would bring to a city, you know, and that's where something like.

A

Senator hennessey's questions were around and even senator roosevelt is from nashua uh who.

A

Did not vote to support this? Her questions were around and the mayor's roundtable. This is a you.

A

Know this is a supported across the board, the the table, so that will be helpful uh going forward and.

A

I've heard that this is going to be brought for a floor vote, um even though it was an expedient.

A

To legislate, and so these go to committees, the committees say you know whether or not they're.

A

Recommended or itl, which is mean inexpedient to legislate. This was itled uh four to one um so.

A

It's it's gonna, tough to to make it out of committee uh or it's gonna tough, to to pass.

A

But getting on a uh on a study is a is a good next step in a you know: there's we're not the only ones.

A

Looking for it's not just tourism, there's a lot of business opportunities where hotels are going to.

A

Bring in revenue to the cities short-term rentals, this one was rather interesting in that there was.

A

uh Somewhat bipartisan support for this saw senator soucy from manchester, um as well as.

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Her opposite on the uh or her colleague on the republican side in the commerce committee. They.

A

Were supportive of that, so this one is a you know, I think, there's a lot of people that want.

A

To see airbnbs by, you know a certain right from a property perspective, and I personally don't.

A

Disagree with people owner-occupied airbnbs being able to rent their house out. You know.

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Your house doesn't pay taxes, people do unless you airbnb it out, and then it can help defray the cost.

A

And I think that's something that this would be an example of where we need to fill in the void.

A

That the state legislature is trying to solve to strengthen our position on doing this or.

A

Having an opinion on this, but what they've the bill that they have right now provides no.

A

Protection at all for there's there'd be no reason why a large llc out of state llc couldn't just buy.

A

Up properties in portsmouth and turn them into uh you know cute little uh airbnbs and turn us into.

A

You know someplace down in texas, where there's only a community thursday through sunday. You know.

A

Afternoon when everybody flies in you know and then and then leave so it's important that this.

A

Doesn't pass, but I also think it's important that we do something on airbnbs and it might be as part.

A

Of the legislative subcommittee, we bring it back to the council to discuss. You know something that.

A

Can be done so we don't have this shadow hotel economy running in portsmouth that portsmouth just.

A

Takes a view of if it's not a problem, you know uh for your neighbors, it's you know, it's not a.

A

Problem, I think that's the wrong personally, the wrong way to to handle that, and I think.

A

We would have handled it last two years except kovid, but it got to a draft form uh at least.

A

Voting for sound barriers: um this is uh for the the dot where we um well a couple of different.

A

Ones but um we're we are supporting um the 10-year plan, highway transportation plan. This will be an.

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Opportunity to go back and speak in front of the senate there's some policy issues that we need to.

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To try to move the ball forward on in terms of why a school is viewed in the same way as a cemetery.

A

But that's um that's gonna! That's probably outside the the legislature, the legislature.

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But um be an opportunity to speak on that and and help the senators raise that with with d.o.t.

A

There's also the uh what peter some such as you know, he's been fighting this battle for so.

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uh So long and so effectively that he got these type two sound barriers, but then he got everything.

A

Converted to a type one sound barrier, so the type twos don't actually they're, not they're.

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No longer type two, so there's actually funding for him, so his bill is not uh type two. It's.

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Not necessarily uh going to you know, go forth in the same way, but we're staying close to that and.

A

And what's great about jane, in addition to a whole other things, is that she's also very helpful to.

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All of our state delegations, if they want to you, know, use her as a resource she's, encouraging that.

A

And you know spoke to peter on the phone for a number of probably hours over the course of the.

A

Last couple months on this, uh but this you know the same with um uh our senator uh senator perkins.

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Coca, it's important that we pass. It was important that we pass these legislative principles so that.

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It's easier for jane to have those conversations with our you know, members of the delegation to.

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Clearly, state where we will stand on issues based on those policies and then uh increasing municipal.

A

Vehicle registration fee looks like this. One's actually got some legs. I believe, and you know.

A

Might come out of it and then municipal fee for traffic violations? Where did that one sit.

A

We submitted testimony on it, but the municipal association was didn't, support it or rejected they.

A

Were worried, I think incorrectly, that people would assume that this was uh you know uh it would tie.

A

Us, too, closely to uh the belief that cops are just padding their budgets when I actually only found.

A

Out that we don't do that when this bill came forth, actually it all goes to the state. So if you.

A

Ever get pulled over in portsmouth, none of that goes to uh the city of portsmouth. That all goes to.

A

The state for speeding so uh interesting there jane anything, is there any update on that did.

A

That make it through committee. I don't think I don't know that that I think um there there wasn't.

C

A lot of support there wasn't a lot of testimony and support on that particular bill. I don't think.

C

Senator perkins coco was was hopeful that that was going to make it out of committee or even if it.

C

Does make it out of committee have the support of the full senate when they vote, so um I will double.

C

Check on that, the senate is meeting this thursday. I don't think that there was a report out on this.

C

Yet for that for the full sentence vote, but I will I will follow up on that particular one.

C

um If I could just just add, you know, I think they may allude to the fact that this is you.

C

Know a very partisan legislature- and um you know I can just say, for example, the hotel occupancy.

C

It's it's water on a rock. You know we came close before and so, even though we may not think that.

C

It is going to win the day if we go and testify the message gets out to other cities and towns.

C

When portsmouth was one of the only few cities to testify and have a legislative subcommittee.

C

So over the years now, I think this mayor's roundtable has really morphed into something.

C

That's very, very effective and hma is great, but they represent a lot of the towns.

C

And so the city's voice is usually a unique one, so I am segueing right into the mayor's round table.

C

um There they've been very effective in uh in the meals and rooms bill that passed last year.

C

I think it was as a result of the mayor's roundtable pushing on that bill to again water on.

C

The rock we have been the city has been uh asking for a new look on the meals and rooms, distribution.

C

For many many years and finally, there was a little more distribution to the cities and towns, but.

C

I just wanted to mention that, overall, on on some of this, some of this testimony yeah and.

A

So we can take it out of order here. The discussion, the legislative districts, the mayor's roundtable.

A

That was an example. Somebody voted against the meals in rooms stating that their city was opposed.

A

To it that was information, new information to the mayor of that city, and so when I asked.

A

Him that he was surprised and had you know, follow-up conversation on that so.

A

There's opportunity and and nhma is a great resource, but they have to balance it across.

A

All of their members, not just they don't weighted on how much you know how much dues you know a.

A

Just the the dues that they're they're getting, although it is worth noting that you know cities.

A

Pay more uh than the towns there, but the um the opportunity on the mayor's roundtable is to to.

A

Try to to get reasonable things, you know non, you know, nonpartisan, we don't there's not a.

A

Whole lot of partisan chat there, but nobody notices what happens in concord. At least my.

A

Belief until it comes down to the city, municipal level and then they're like wait, this is crazy.

A

What's going on here, we got, you know, retirements, are you know getting downshifted to here, so it's.

A

An opportunity to say you know: what's what we want to align on and as part of that there is.

A

Going to be an opportunity to discuss with the governor on february 8th issues of importance so.

A

um You know we these were ones that had come up in the past. I think you know, based on.

A

If we went back to discussion legislative issues, I think we've uh new england offshore win.

A

Would be one of them, um but want to hear you know if there are things that that we.

A

Want to bring out into something you think later on. You know before the 8th, I'm happy.

A

To bring it up as part of that conversation with the mayors and the and the governor.

E

Mayor, I don't, I don't think that there's any chance with this, but if.

E

If there can be a discussion around the downshifting of responsibilities for retirement.

E

And maybe the state taking back some of that responsibility, I realize that that's.

E

Been going on for many many years, but it is a significant increase in our our annual budget.

A

Yeah, I think downshifting of costs is going to be one of the things that that comes up. Of course,.

A

You know concord the the opposite of that is you know the the cities want responsibility. You know.

A

The city should pay, you know their their full way, at least that's what I've heard in terms of.

A

You know they don't want somehow ambulances get mentioned a lot in terms of you know, towns buying.

A

New ambulances or cities buying new ambulances that got mentioned when we spoke on the the.

A

uh The hotel occupancy um ambulance, where are you going to spend it on an ambulance.

A

I said no a ladder truck because we need those for hotels.

A

But the that's one that will come up, I think another one is.

A

Is this airbnb uh issue right now, affordable housing, I think, will will come up. That's where.

A

There's alignment maybe not necessarily on how do we get there, but the need to get there.

A

With the governor he's put forth senate bill 400, this will be the third year that it tries.

A

To get past, which talks about basically training like planning board members to.

A

To better understand housing policy, um there's some other aspects of that that I.

A

I forget: it's not there's no money in any of it, um but it's it's all kind of things that we should be.

A

uh We should be focusing on and then maybe some some changes to slight changes to zoning yeah.

C

Dimensional standards and and um setbacks, and the like. The only odd thing about that.

C

Bill- and I'm not going to say it's odd- is it does allow for the award of attorney's fees.

C

At the superior court level, if, if this particular type of housing is denied, but one aspect of it.

C

Says only if the action was willful and want, and so it really has to be quite egregious. That would.

C

Just be something I would suggest be stricken from the from the bill. It has a lot of you know.

C

Positive uh points again, it's that weighing and balancing it is a statewide zoning change, because.

C

It changes our zoning but at the same time it it supports the principles of affordable housing. So.

C

That's you know one of those examples. The mayor was speaking about earlier, but um you know if, if.

C

In a perfect world, if, if that you know attorney fee, even the willful and want- and I think that's.

C

Just a policy: that's that's challenging with land use in general and appeals on land use.

C

Also, there's a lot of bills relative to the housing appeals board, which is this other.

C

Vehicle for folks to appeal land use decisions.

C

There's several bills to try to dissolve that particular board. So oh really yeah! So that's.

A

What 105 bartlett went through, I don't know if you anyone was yes. So of course you were.

A

Paying attention to that, um but so that went to the housing appeals board. Interesting. To note.

A

On that that they didn't actually that didn't actually go to the housing appeals board. They.

A

uh It got it got put there because they, I think originally uh went to the um they went to the.

A

Zoning board is that correct and got them to try to rehear it, and then it went to the housing.

A

Appeals board, but um that that was an interesting um but again, I think, with the effort to try to.

A

Reduce the, uh I guess, the litigation that comes with with housing, and if that's you know that.

A

Certainly is a cost of housing, but that's what the governor, I think has been focusing on trying to.

A

Reduce housing costs by reducing ways in which people can build on property.

E

I have I just have a question. um You know the housing appeals board probably really benefits us.

E

Because it should reduce litigation costs if they go there versus the court. The lawyer will say.

C

Theoretically, in practice, I find it's confusing perceived procedural issues. I think in theory.

C

It's it's a good one, but when you have if, for instance, if you have stuff that's gone to the.

C

Planning board and the zba one it's oftentimes one one development will do that and then part.

C

Of the issues can be reheard by zba, depending on what they are. If it's a planning board decision.

C

And then you can bring it to the superior court or you can bring it to the housing appeals board.

C

The purpose of it is to be quick. I think the purpose of the housing appeals board is to.

C

Hear things more quickly than the superior court? Interestingly, there's a bunch of workforce housing.

C

Bills that make the superior court speed up in there's some pending legislation, this session.

C

I think recognizing the fact that these cases are taking too long, but sometimes they're.

C

Procedurally, confusing and strategically you know it can be a little convoluted, but theoretically.

C

It's supposed to streamline things, make things go quickly and hopefully allow people to represent.

C

Themselves, even you know, without without representation, but uh I I don't know that that.

C

Has had the actual effect of that okay and you can appeal both to the supreme court either way.

C

So, whether whatever option you pick, you can still continue on to the supreme court.

A

um So we've kind of gone through um most so a discussion of legislative issues of interest and.

A

And requests for support, um knowing offshore wind, I think that's going to be uh one. That's.

A

It's really interesting in terms of we were just down at the turning basin. um You know project.

A

There we're not gonna uh we're likely not building the the turbines here in portsmouth, but there will.

A

Be components and aspects of that that portsmouth could certainly build. You know the gulf of maine.

A

I think is the body of water: that's warming, the quickest out of any body of water on the planet.

A

And also an opportunity to put offshore wind in a in a meaningful and impactful way.

A

That's something I'd like to see us be able to support and there's a senate. Senator waters has.

A

A committee on that- that's studying that at the moment, but that's something that I think.

A

There's also some education on just like what offshore wind is now it's it's like way.

A

Out there you know it's, so it's not even like, although I think the wind tire pines look cool.

A

You know like that's, I understand that that might be a minority report uh when it comes to.

A

You know people's view on the wind turbines, but they're almost indistinguishable now.

A

Because they're they're miles uh miles off the off the coast, um let's see, um and that has.

B

Industry support that has eversource support yeah. So it's going to be interesting to see.

B

You know a lot of a lot of people will align align to make that happen.

C

And there's some checks and balances on those bills too. That contracts are.

C

Reviewed that there's a committee and that certain studies are done so before their.

C

Contract for the actual energy that's produced, so both of those bills address.

C

Adjust that as well and then um try the biggest one, the update on a coalition, uh not the biggest.

A

One, but one that I think, is a uh there's a lot to unpack here in terms of uh school funding.

A

You know where uh what the update on just the coalition committees um and jane do you want to.

A

Walk through that, and maybe start from the give you a thumbnail over simplified explanation, so.

C

For many years, as you know, when you get your tax bill, you have the swept statewide education.

C

Property tax on your bill, and you also have the local education tax portion many years ago,.

C

The portion of the swept that was assessed and collected in portsmouth on your bill was sent.

C

To concord to pay for school systems outside of portsmouth, that's, what's called being a donor town.

C

So that legislation was defeated and the city of portsmouth is no longer a donor town.

C

There was a commission on education funding. It was a very robust and involved commission.

C

That came forward with an incredible amount of uh recommendations on how to fix this.

C

The really the inequities in school and school funding- and you know the differences between one.

C

And the other where they didn't have where they ran out of time or where they didn't have time.

C

Is the the funding piece so during that it appeared that return of a donor town.

C

Type education funding system was going to come back, and that was as a result of that commission.

C

The mayor spoke during some of those commission meetings on this on this issue on the stoner town.

C

Bill so when, when the city understood that was at the end of the commission, that that might be.

C

The the recommendation of the commission to fund education by returning to donor towns.

C

We reached out to some of the former donor towns from many years ago.

C

Because the city was a part of what's called the coalition communities and and that the.

C

Bunch of of cities that were donor towns uh legislatively were effective in in reversing that.

C

That legislation and that funding scheme, so what has happened now? It's coalition communities, 2.0.

C

And so these not the exact same communities but many of the communities that would now.

C

Be a donor town based upon this commission's recommendation and funding banded together.

C

Entered into an agreement and actually hired a lobbyist, jim merrill from bernstein shore.

C

To track education funding bills, it is, I have been tracking these bills for many years. It is.

C

A very complex area of legislation, um but the good news is last year and even this session.

C

The appetite to change the education funding formula is basically non-existent for, for this.

C

Next session, uh given the the majority in the house and the senate uh there there there was one.

C

Bill that we were very concerned about, and that was recommended itl the one that actually uh dealt.

C

With the education funding the education bills, this session are all about vaccines and masks.

C

So it's kind of taken the attention away from how do we fund education? But it is an issue that must.

C

Be addressed and that, and that should be addressed. The good news is because of that law legislatively.

C

The jim merrill the lobbyist is reaching out to other stakeholders in the education funding issue.

C

The new hampshire, fair housing, sorry, new, hampshire, fairness on education, um there's two entities, one.

C

Is really more of a statewide entity that provides data on education issues and so he's reaching out.

C

To them to see you know what areas do we have in common? The other is the new hampshire, fair.

C

Education project- that's andrew volinsky, and they have had many presentations throughout the state.

C

And they're still going to various communities to discuss about the inequities and in education and.

C

Education funding and again um it's our hope that that the lobbyist also reached out to them, because.

C

The last email that I got from them- I didn't sense that it was the property tax that they were.

C

Discussing so much the fair, the fair um school fairness group.

C

So maybe there are, you know, places where these different groups can.

C

Align and understand, and um and try to figure out this, this broader issue of.

C

Of funding, but as a city, we have taken a position as the last principle in the legislative position.

C

Says I think it's number 20 that we do not support a donor town, education funding system and so.

C

This lobbyist works within those parameters and you know works in the legislature on behalf of.

C

Portsmouth and these other coalition communities, so this is one that is a it's an issue as as.

A

As old as new hampshire's public education system, you know how do we fund it? I think that.

A

A lot of people there's a lot of education, and I would ask maybe at one of these uh the.

A

Next one have uh uh former counselor chris dwyer uh come back and speak.

A

To us to understand it, I was gonna read one passage from her comments. um That is always.

A

Stuck with me- and I I can't write it any better, but um this is closing out and and before this.

A

She speaks a lot to you know that, there's uh that there's education, you know, equity and taxpayer.

A

Let's say yeah student equity and taxpayer equity and I think that the commission's report.

A

As as jane mentioned, did a great job underscoring that there is.

A

Student inequity in our state um and in portsmouth it's we have a perception across the state.

A

And as much as you know, that's a reality that we deal with in terms of you know where we spend our.

A

Money, you know most people think that we're using it to you know, put gold-plated bricks. You know.

A

In the downtown, um and so there's a perception that all of fort smith is this one unified body.

A

That's that's much like the first person uh that counselor drier messen. So let me just read this.

A

At a public hearing, a newcomer who had just purchased and renovated a historic.

A

Home in the city south end brags that he was successful business leader in massachusetts.

A

Knows how the city could be better managed to save money and move to new hampshire.

A

Because he didn't want to pay taxes, as I was co-chairing a school building committee at.

A

The time he found it appropriate to proclaim, I did not move here to pay for your schools.

A

Shortly after taking up residence, he became a vocal supporter of the persistent.

A

Local school budget critics who want to simply eliminate teachers each year, portsmouth per.

A

Pupil spending is about on the state average and that's also true. We are state average for schools.

A

One of my constituents was a shipyard welder who purchased a modest home in portsmouth. Almost four.

A

Decades ago, his lifelong wages would not have been different from shipyard employees with similar.

A

Jobs who settled and purchased homes in rochester or somersworth or many other tri-state communities.

A

That made up the yard's workforce, but he had been and will be faced with substantially higher taxes.

A

The state required comparable sales method of assessing has escalated. The value of that modest.

A

Portsmouth home dramatically, partly as a result of the purchasing power of the aforementioned.

A

Self-Important massachusetts transplant his home is valued at less than the medium house price.

A

And he currently pays 7 497 annually in property taxes, despite portsmouth seemingly low tax rate.

A

His rochester colleague with a home price that the median would pay 5851 in property.

A

Tax this year, even though rochester's tax rate is almost double sportsmith, the two will.

A

Also be treated quite differently by uniform statewide education, tax rate, for example, a 5.

A

Uniform tax rate would cost my neighbor 2 550 and its fellow retired worker 1175 more than double so.

A

The purpose and what I think is important from our or at least my standpoint and and maybe the.

A

The legislative subcommittee is that when it comes to education, I think portsmouth believes.

A

Very strongly in education we hear over and over again from concerned parents about the education.

A

I also happen to believe that education is a statewide issue where I want to see everyone have.

A

Equal access and opportunity to a good education: it's how we have a.

A

Good state, as we have good education, and I want to see equity across that- what I.

A

Don't want to see happen, at least in portsmouth is for us to advocate the responsibility to.

A

Fight for a more fair way to fund education that doesn't rely on the property tax and and create a.

A

A a competition between cities and towns across the state and so there's a lot and I.

A

Try not to tweet too much, but I've tweeted about this in the past um varying degrees of.

A

Success uh mostly failure on that, but it's um it's important that when we talk about this and.

A

When we talk about the coalition communities, it's important at least to me that we are fighting for.

A

A more fair way to fund education in the state of new hampshire that understands.

A

There is student inequity at the heart of that, but we can't solve student inequity by creating.

A

More taxpayer inequity in order to to to solve that. That's the position right now.

A

At least it was for the last. I don't know, 30 years when it comes to this, but I'm looking for.

A

This group to to really carry forth that argument in a way that you know, changes, hearts and minds as.

A

This will come back up in the next, probably the next, when they go through the budget.

A

Next year, so I'd like us to to be thinking about this. We have some time because again, they're busy.

A

Worrying about masks and vaccines, but in a year's time this is going to come back to us and I think.

A

That we can't, we can't have a good argument if we somehow uh appear that we don't fully appreciate.

A

And understand the student inequity that exists in the state when it comes to you know different.

A

Schools- so that's my treatise on that. Yes, and just a footnote in that treatise, is that there.

C

Is pending litigation on the education funding, the convail case um they aren't set for trial? I don't.

C

Think for at least a full year- uh maybe maybe more but at least a full year. As far as I recall, but.

C

It's going to come back one way or the other it's going to come back either through the judiciary.

C

Making another you know claremont and fill in the blank for whatever number you want to call it.

C

Yeah or it's going to come back through the legislature, so you're right, just because.

C

Our focus and the legislators, legislatures focus has been you know on other important things.

C

This is something that's definitely going to come back, one way or the other, so.

C

And let me just I'll say that the attorney general's office supports the current funding.

C

Formula so the city's interests align with the ag's position in this litigation, so.

C

We are not taking a you know, an active we're, not intervening in any way, because it's the role.

C

Of the attorney general to defend the current funding formula as it exists just so, you know.

E

I have an adjacent question on education: finance do we know what's happening with the.

E

Voucher expansion yeah- we probably should have an update on that, but that's a.

A

It's a super interesting bill in that they passed it. They said there was going to be like 30 grand.

A

Set to it, what is it at now like four million dollars yeah, and it has unlimited obligations.

A

In the goes over to the general fund, so what this allows is for students in uh homeschooled students.

A

Or private school students to uh get a voucher if they don't put their kids into.

A

The public school and a lot of people have taken up that you know and there's no.

A

There's I don't even know if there's a requirement that you wouldn't be able to like redomicile.

A

In new hampshire to get the credit, if you were sending a kid to new hampshire, uh private schools,.

C

There were so many there were so many different bills and then there are also.

C

So many bills challenging telling it this this session as well. So what what there's also some.

A

Like actual mistakes that they made in that bill, that's going through so there's a rule jane you.

A

Might know this, you probably do on the rule like there's a oversight when it comes to implementing.

A

Rules that they might have made a mistake on uh putting this through that's now going through.

A

That process a rulemaking authority yeah, is that part of it I'll double check I'll uh next.

C

Meeting I'll kind of look at the universe of the of the freedom accounts and kind of give a little.

C

Summary of what it is at present and what the pending legislation is trying to do.

C

To challenge it, if that would be helpful well- and I have a specific question around- that.

E

They were talking about passing the funding on to districts based upon some percentage calculation.

E

Of value, so so I I want to know if that's still in play, um because it was pretty significant, is.

E

My understanding there were some districts that were paying more for the vouchers than they were.

E

For their public education yeah, it was significant. Okay, I'll summarize that I'll get that organized.

C

And also there's two other entities: there's the school board association. That's a good resource.

C

And then there's the school administrators association, both of whom have lobbyists.

C

Both of whom are very active in this so um to not reinvent the wheel, I will also reach.

C

Out to both of their lobbyists and say you know: what do we? What do we need to be concerned about.

C

This session, where do we stand and and figure out the universe of of these accounts.

B

Jane if we could find out how that would impact us specifically, I think.

B

The school department knows how many kids in the city are in private school.

B

Or I know I think that information is available so yeah they do what, if all those parents.

B

Use the voucher program: what that, what would that mean to us in dollars? I think we'd be.

B

We'd see a big number.

C

Okay, I will get that information, but that's a it's blooming. Yeah.

B

I thought I was.

B

When you said the good news is, I I felt like I was talking to my wife, the minister.

B

We don't have to worry about the formula, but we have to worry about the accounts.

C

um Counselor cook, um I have another question, a different. It's adjacent another adjacent.

E

Question there's some legislation right now on child care funding going through the state.

E

For emergency funding for child care workers and increasing, I guess, funds to incentivize child care.

E

Do we have that was something that came up with the city council at our retreat as a.

E

Priority, so I'm just wondering if, if we can at least follow that and see see where we are.

E

Sure, maybe that would be a good track the track, but also just the you know, our city council goals.

A

um If we could align, you know more broadly to topics that would align to those goals.

A

In addition to you know our legislative principles, I think that would be useful.

D

Speaking of that, a draft of the of what we heard the goals to be is coming out today. Stay tuned.

B

Mayor um I wanted to check back in on one thing that I haven't heard much about for a.

B

Couple of years- but I remember back in 2017 the hilton garden inn sold for 44 million dollars.

B

And it came out that it was on our tax rolls for 19 and a half million dollars.

B

And I remember before I was a counselor talking to roseanne lentz and she said well, yes, because.

B

We can't fully count a commercial property's cash flow in how we value it and um that could.

B

That she said we went to concord to try and uh change that and we weren't successful. But she.

B

Said if we were able to do that and capture the full value of the commercial property in town.

B

It would make a big difference in our tax base. It would obviously relieve residential taxpayers.

B

um And so I didn't know with the status of that, but um it does seem as the state's.

B

Pushing costs down to us that the state should let us value our commercial tax base.

B

As fully and properly as it should be, there is a bill uh this session, that.

C

Asks for the ability to tax commercial property differently at a different rate than.

C

Residential property- I haven't drilled down on the content of that bill, but I do remember seeing.

C

That, in the many in the lists, there's also a couple of bills about appraisals that I will.

C

Figure out, I know, there's one, that a citizen can petition their city or town to do a rebel.

C

Prior to the five-year statutory obligation and um there's another one about appraisals,.

C

Of real property that I haven't drilled down on yet, but I will see what's there to see if this.

C

Issue is addressed. I think I think we've fought this on different levels for for many years,.

C

And I think one of the things that is challenging too is the rent rolls and- and you know what you.

C

Get for information and what you are allowed to get relative to appraisals. It's a very.

C

Hard-Fought uh issue in concord- and I do know that the city has repeatedly- I know roseanne personally-.

C

Has testified many many times about this issue, I'm not sure that the bills that I'm thinking about.

C

Are in line with with you know what she she's been fighting and what you've raised, but I can.

C

Look to see if um what that commercial, residential tax rate um bill is that's probably the closest.

C

One, I would guess right, but I think well, you know what we've seen in the last four or five years is.

B

Our residential valuations have jumped very rapidly and, of course, we're going to.

B

See that again this year, because there's fresh information all the time as houses sell, there's.

C

Not so much with commercial, and therein lies the problem as far as the it's a much slower. You know.

C

Sales, you know for comps and I think that's the one of the problems that that we've as a city had.

C

To face in that valuation issue right, so we were, I think, 47 percent of our tax levy was commercial.

B

It's down to 44 percent now and that shifts a lot of the burden on to residential taxpayers.

D

And it doesn't mean those commercial properties are worth any less they're actually worth.

B

More, it's just. How do we capture that and you're right roseanne would tell you that.

B

Concord has sheltered those commercial property owners from having to divulge.

B

Their rents and their their cash flow. She does a great job.

B

Figuring out estimating what it is, but she doesn't have none of the assessors.

B

In the state have the ability to say it's tax time show us your your rent, income.

B

And so we continue to see this tip towards residential tax burden.

B

And more pension costs.

A

So we got that more, at least understanding of the evaluations. I know that rosianna's.

A

Has testified in the past she's also shared that you know it would be great if we can understand it.

A

From a business to business standpoint, I think a you know just raising all the commercial uh levy.

A

On that, um you know makes it more strenuous on smaller businesses. That might not be the.

A

Highest possible use of that uh property, meaning a hotel in terms of revenue, don't want everybody.

A

To be, you know, landowners to be forced to uh go to that position, but um that's a uh I think.

A

Would be reasonable legislation, so you know the mayors, I think, would would take that up in terms.

A

Of you know wanting to see that don't know if the legislature is at this point reasonable enough.

A

uh To get it done, the other thing we often would do with this committee is we bring rosie in it.

C

So, in other words, if you have questions about that, we'll bring rosanna or or judy if.

C

There's a finance question so that they're much more adept at answering those than.

C

Than I can so that's something we can do we'll see if she's available we'll make her available.

D

When do you think we need next to me, it's up to the committee, uh do you do you want to try to.

C

Meet with our delegation, do you want to like to try to meet the delegation at the next earliest.

A

So we're gonna have to sync with them, um and then we can come back with a date that.

A

Works for us does this time work for folks on monday mornings. Okay, I think it worked.

A

Previously it used to work for uh the um the house are reps, um but now I think they're actually.

C

Five days, some of the committees are meeting five days, but I can survey them first and then come.

C

Back to you for some recommended dates and times perfect: okay, all right! Well, if there's no other.

A

Questions or comments, looking at you, kate, nothing all right. uh I moved it.

A

I think we'd have to wait a motion to adjourn a move. We adjourn.

E

Second, all in favor, aye aye. Thank you. Thank you. Kevin.