City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Pease Restoration Advisory Board (RAB), 17 May 2022

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From YouTube: 5.17.2022 Pease Restoration Advisory Board

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5.17.2022 Pease Restoration Advisory Board

A

Andrea planned we'll be wrapping up.

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Thank you. This is the peas restoration, advisory board meeting of may 17th 2022.

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um We are going to be doing a little bit of rab business just to kick off and then we'll move.

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Into our technical presentations and discussion and we'll get into the rationale for not having.

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Pre-Recorded, the presentation, which is what we did last time there was a little complexity around it.

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This time so we're doing sort of our old model of presentation and then q, a and discussion with.

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The technical team um and then we'll take a break and then have open discussion for rab.

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Members for any topics, on your mind, related to the cleanup from this project at all and.

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Then public comment is scheduled for 7 30 and we will wrap up at 8. any questions about the agenda.

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All right, um we want to approve the summary from.

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February that rab summary.

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um And I think we made revisions based on a couple of pieces of feedback thanks to ram.

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Members for that on the draft, um I think it should be ready to go. Anybody have any concerns at all.

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Say we're good we'll get and then we can get that posted.

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It was like a very content, rich conversation, um let's do intros of rab members, so.

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I will call on people virtually who are rob members and then we'll go to the room and have.

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You go around the table, um let's start with who is in virtually, let's start with dennis, say hello.

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Hello dennis hawaii, I live in greenland, a member of the grab for a couple of terms also, the state.

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Representative for uh greenland and newington, thank you. Thank you. Jamie. You want to introduce.

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Yourself or uh jamie payne, a public member of the rab, um originally the co-chair of this original.

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Pfos pifoa group um of the rab and um just excited to make it um you want to introduce yourself.

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Mark matson, you want to say hi.

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Oh, that's not working! um Let's go to sam beam. You want to say hello raymond. How about this.

B

Oh there, you are mark sorry um technical difficulties. um Actually I couldn't join.

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The way the link worked, I had to do through the browser but anyways um mark matson. I've.

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Been a member just probably my third term, on the rab, um a resident of portsmouth and.

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uh Have just a mostly retired aquatic ecologist, so I'm very interested in the.

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The aquatic remediation part of the restoration thanks mark, let's go to sam next.

B

Okay, thanks yeah, um I'm a first term on the rab here and I live here in newington and um I don't.

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Have much specific uh remediation expertise yet, but I'm looking forward to learning a lot about.

B

It and we'll continue to do so and what's up glad to have you thank you, let's go to um mike bailey.

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Mike you there, you want to say hi. I am sorry about that. I just wanted to unclick my uh my.

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Mute and my um my video uh hi everyone good seeing everyone, I'm sorry, I'm not there today.

B

um I had intended to, but just some um family health issues at home, so.

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But um I should introduce myself mike daley the epa project manager.

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I work out of the boston office. Thank you mike, um let's go to maria and then peter sandon.

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Hi, I'm maria stoll and I'm with the p's development authority. Thank you, maria peter.

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And then matt hey there, peter sandon, the new hampshire department of environmental services.

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Project manager for peds- I also wish I could be there- I'm your host today, um let's go to matt.

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um And then we'll go into the room, I think yeah matt casey, I'm the environmental manager.

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For pizza national guard base, oh thank you actually, joan you want to say hello.

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Here, hello, yes, nice to see everybody uh joan hamblet! I live in portsmouth, I'm a.

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State representative- and this is my first term on the pease rap and I appreciated the slides and.

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The information ahead of time, especially the uh list of translations, of what all the.

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um Acronyms mean acronym last excellent yeah um great am I missing.

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Any rab members virtually before we go into the room all right. um Somebody cam will you.

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Guide the intros around the table, yeah. Why don't we start with michael donahue.

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uh Mike mike donahue, the other mike uh and uh I'm a resident in newington.

E

I'm ross mccann, I'm also a resident of knowington and I'm on my maiden voyage.

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Brian guts city of portsmouth and then these drinking water system, uh andrea amico, I'm a.

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Portsmouth president, a co-founder of testing for peace and uh the rad community co-chair all right.

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My name is chris king. I am the air force program manager for pete's, and I've been with you for.

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About what seven or eight months now and they're, looking forward to longevity with you and getting.

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I'm getting getting around to it just having a good meeting and I'll have meetings to come.

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um With that, before you move on, I would just like to say that I know you all were expecting this.

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This video and we had to pull that back at the last minute amount of time of this new.

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National defense authorization act that we'll get into that, but it was not our intent to do that. We just had to make sure everything was scrubbed.

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To meet our obligations under those laws, not only that law, but also the freedom of.

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Information act which we had always comply with, but we just wanted to make sure with.

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The complexity of foia that we are doing the same thing with the mdaa um because of the fact that we.

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Determined that this primarily affects water samples, we were able to go back and look at.

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All of our present implementation materials that we had intended to present today and very very.

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Little change what you'll see in what you're used to seeing previously is maybe a little bit.

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Of a tweak to the graphics and that's basically because again I'll explain it a little bit further.

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There's a term called private property in the ndaa that we just had to make sure that we were.

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Being as conscious as possible and making sure that we were intent of the law, as we interpreted.

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In the air force, but that being said, what you're going to see today is very, very similar 99 period.

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So we hope that everybody's happy with that um this is not in any way slowing down our efforts.

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Our circular efforts or our efforts it's only affecting the way we can share information at this.

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Point all right, I thought I would like to pass it back over wanna go with the brian gets us update.

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Yeah, I think we're ready is that everybody at the table, except for the wood team.

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Is that correct? Okay thanks, um we see a lot in the room from from space, but not everything um yeah. I.

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Think we want to go to brian for a few minutes and then we'll jump into the air force's content. Brian.

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Gutz the only problem with this hybrid- I don't know exactly where to speak, to there's people.

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In the room, there's people out there and then, when I see myself it's like this kind of delay.

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If I get all flustered, don't worry, uh I don't have any slides. I do have a handout. So every year, as as.

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A public drinking water supplier, we're required to do our annual reports, and I think I provided.

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The annual reports last year for ps, we have pe sportsmen in reports, so these are are just out.

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They are mailed to all customers that put online and I'm going to hand out and share with everybody.

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Here in the room, after I'm done talking I'll, walk around and hand the rest of them out.

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But essentially it summarizes the water quality sampling some highlights of last year. Of course,.

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The biggest highlight would be the activation of the peas, the treatment system and the reactivation.

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Of the haven oil which continues to operate and so far so good on treatment and currently right.

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Now we're at about 200 million gallons treated through the combined resin and carbon system, so.

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Things are, things are going well there and also looking forward to probably a summer.

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Without having to use supplemental water from the portsmouth system to serve the pea systems,.

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And lastly, the safe water advisory group recently had a drinking water farm which andrea and I.

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Co-Chaired that group it was quite successful, so people are interested if you haven't had enough.

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um Tonight of the wrap you can go over to the city of portsmouth youtube page and you can watch two.

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Hours of information about the uh the portsmouth, slash, peas, drinking water systems, and it gives you.

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A lot of background that goes back to the earliest days of when, prior to any peace air base that the.

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Haven, well was the haven springs and then 1870 is when it became part of the public water system. So.

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A very long history of drinking water here um with the peas, water sources and the portsmouth. That's.

B

It I can turn it back to owner chris. I think we're pretty ready to go to the air force chris. Yes,.

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All right, so what we're going to do we're going to basically do what we prepared for this is, if.

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You're going to video record, so we would like to do that as well, and all of us have prepared our.

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Scripts and our thoughts already belong, that's what we're planning on doing so. We would like.

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To attempt that approach so we're with us to hold all questions until the end after the open.

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Discussion can I so chris, having said don't interrupt now, I'm interrupting can so if people.

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Have clarifying questions if they're, just if they think something's really unclear that.

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You're, saying is that okay, we usually interrupt for that yeah and then, if they're, getting into.

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Their maps and everything they don't want to break their train of thought too much.

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Right so we'll try to let everyone the team get through the presentation, so everybody.

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Jot down your questions, um you know we'll prepare for that robust discussion for afterwards and.

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For those who are watching on their zoom for the slides, you can control where the faces go.

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You can put them across the top or down the side, so they sort of get out of your slide.

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Way with that view button in the upper right. Thank you chris.

C

All right so we're in a technical presentation, where I of course will do the uh the air force.

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And the one team will take care of the remedial investigation update if it's not it's kind of.

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Jumbled so you'll see us you'll come back to me at the end, um but that will jump into the next live.

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All right, private well update. I know a lot of folks here are very interested in this.

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So the air force has been given direction on how to implement the december.

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2021 uh department of defense guidance regarding how and what state date g.

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Be used in removal actions, um there are three conditions before we can do. The action.

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With the air force, the first is that the water well must first be below the epa lifetime. Health.

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Advisory of 70 parts per trillion for pfos would be full, but above any new hampshire standards.

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Second, those private oils have to be hydrogeologically connected to other welds.

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That exceed the epa lifetime health advisories. This means that we must know a contaminated plume.

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Of groundwater with pfos and kefo in particular, is migrating in the direction of that. Well, our ri.

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Has given us great models so far, we kind of know the answer to these questions. In most cases, that's.

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Condition number two, and the third condition is we do expect over time with that. Well, we'll.

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Extend the epa or the federal standards if an action is not taken and again, this is just showing.

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We have to show that there is a hydrogeological connection and that plume is moving towards a.

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Particular private well before the air force and step in and take actions for a will that is below.

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The extent standards focus the state standards and that's not just new hampshire, that's everywhere,.

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That being said, the air force has taken action so far and we are currently working with the.

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Department of environmental services, services and well owners to identify the affected wells of.

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Determined appropriate action, so I won't go into any specifics. That is, people's private business.

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But we do include, you know, not only connections to municipal water or avoidance entry system.

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Which we call a poet where they make the most financial or engineering sense.

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It's good to know that the des tes has really done a great job, making sure that any of your.

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Restaurants around this area have had adequate treatments over provided, bottled water or.

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Municipal hookups already so we don't see a swath of residents that are drinking the polluted water.

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So that's a good thing. We have some time and we're going to go ahead and make sure that we.

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Do the right thing or, if we're required to do so, that being you know, look for a.

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Better solution, whether it be provide bottled water or some other longer-term solution and.

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Some members of the virtual would like you to speak up and maybe a little bit.

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More slowly, it's a little bit tougher. Okay, I will do my best. Sorry. Thank you.

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All right, I kind of wanted to make sure you know put everybody's mind at ease about.

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The waste update of how we as the air force, handle our p festival of wastes, so the incineration.

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Moratorium, part of the national defense authorization act is fully in effect, so we are.

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Obviously, required to adhere by that law. Congressional law.

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So at peace we have done this by we're gentle all of our generated wastes and are going it's.

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Basically, coming from the treatment plants so site and ames, most of which were site, eight.

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We're putting it in a subtitle, c landfill. Sorry, I forgot to cross off that class. That's scratched.

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Out but each shipment before it leaves the base, we give it a thorough review, so the air force and.

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The wood team approved shipping properly trained. We go through all the shipping.

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Manifest and documents to make sure that they are correct and accurate, and on top of that we have a.

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Process in place with the epa, it's an offshore site shipment approval form that makes sure.

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That our waste, particularly those that are how we characterize them from this from this operations.

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They can be accepted properly and it goes to the facility where it can be properly contained.

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Classy subtitle seed landfills are pretty they're, pretty they're built solid they've.

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Got double liners they've got water management control. It's that way to stay in there. We take.

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The testing systems leak, detection systems, the whole thing about the plants, but rest assured.

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This waste is being transported these places in case of those those properly licensed facilities.

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Okay, we do expect this moratorium to end at some point, so the new rules and dod guidance.

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Are expected in the future, although we really don't have a timeline on when that will happen,.

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But yes, it is coming at some point. This moratorium will not be permanent. It doesn't mean that.

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That guidance won't mean that the disposal on the subtitle c landfill isn't going to be the.

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Means in the future, it's just. We have to wait all right next lesson.

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Is that am I speaking slowly enough now? Is that better? No.

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No from the midwest already all right, so the one that I'm sure everybody here is interested in is that.

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Section 345 a2 of the ndaa, so this is where there's been some confusion on what can and.

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Cannot be shared and rightfully so, um as you can see, the verbatim text is the secretary of defense.

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May not publicly disclose the results of testing of perfluoroalkyl and polyfluorinal substances.

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Conducted on private property key term without the consent of the private property owner now this.

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We've come to determine only applies to water samples, it's very generically applied to water.

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Samples, it doesn't say what kind uh that being the litter of the law- surface water.

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Drinking water, groundwater of any kind we interpret is not protected under this.

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Under this particular mta, this law that is enacted by congress fairly recently signed in december.

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For those of you who have been around or seen one of our access agreements, they do not address.

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Explicit data sharing, so we do not have explicit written permission by any private landowner.

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Or private property owner anywhere around these another one of the big interpretations.

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Is that, of course, what is a private property, it's very specific under foia laws, it is not.

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So under this ndaa, so what our interpretation for this is is not basically private property.

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Is any property not owned by the government so whether it be federal state or city government.

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That's that's what we're dealing with here! So that's kind of the big change, but we want to.

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We want to breastfeed you rest assured that we are doing everything that the ri is not being.

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Slowed down our circle, removal actions are not being slowed down. Our treatment plants.

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Are up and running all of that is going and will continue as as planned. What is going to.

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Change, at least for temporary reasons, is what we can and cannot share, and so basically.

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This this section makes it basically illegal for us to share as written any drinking water data.

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Any surface water data on from a private property without first getting that.

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Person that person or that property owners express written consent to do so.

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Yeah, it's it's! It's pretty tough, but now I know that that may not be the interpretation.

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Of the writers of that document, we could discuss that during the open forum. If you.

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Would like, but as written, the air force has to follow the letter of the law, and this is.

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This is the interpretations that we currently have. This is not just an air force problem. This.

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Is not just a brac problem, it is all of the dod. Essentially all services active and brad, so yeah.

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That's kind of where we're at right now and, like I said this, what this results in at least.

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For this presentation is a few of the graphics, have changed and become a little more generic. We.

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Don't show location data anymore for water samples, for instance, as a protected piece of information.

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You're not going to get hard numbers for now, you're going to get basically an assessment of.

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What that is uh things you've seen before it's it's, it isn't going to change. Much like I said.

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What you're going to see for the remainder of this presentation is about 99 or so of what we.

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Originally firmed up and for the media that we had discussed presenting in this in this meeting today,.

C

C

And then now I'm going to pass it on to the woodsy. uh Sorry, can we comment on that? At least I mean.

E

Will that interrupt the flow of the wood team? If we discuss that particular issue.

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We can clarifying questions, please, yes, bring it up.

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I think right, I think, for clarifying questions. Yes, otherwise we know, there's gonna, be a discussion.

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About that whole issue, and if you can hold it um for right now, we'll pick it up in like half hour.

A

It's probably the first it'll probably be the first topic. Thank you.

D

I'm sorry yeah, that's okay! Go ahead! um Good evening, everybody. um My name is haley plant. I'm.

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An environmental scientist for wood and have been the field operations task lead for the remedial.

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Investigation and tonight I'm going to present a little bit about some of the field activities.

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Processes for the sample media that hank and amy will be presenting in just a little bit.

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So when we're out and about we know that community members and members of the rab.

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Can spot us and see us doing our work but oftentimes it's very well! It's very rare that.

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We can provide an up close look at what we do, and so this is an opportunity that we can give.

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You a little bit of a closer look and show you some of our select sample collection, details.

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A little more up close, so to start, I just wanted to go over a couple of things. um I know that many.

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Of you are likely familiar with a work plan, so we have our remedial investigation, work plan and this.

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Is a document that describes the work that we do so it's it's the samples that we collect the.

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Locations, the media, um the analytes that we would collect them for and submit to the laboratory.

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But to complement that we also have standard operating procedures which explain how we collect.

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These samples and how we approach the work, so this provides a consistent way that all of our.

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Field staff would approach sample collection which um allows for the integrity of the sample and and.

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Us for us to be able to confidently compare uh samples um of a media that are collected.

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So these are all media specific. So, as you can see, we have soil sampling, sediment sampling, surface.

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Water, fish and shellfish, all of which we'll discuss later on in the presentation and just like.

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The work plan, these standard operating procedures are subject to the same regulatory review process.

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So to start out, we've collected a lot of soil samples so far under their amino.

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Investigation and like many kinds of sample collection, soil sample collection, is driven by.

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The location and the depth of the sample, so we change our approach.

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In a way that matches what we are, what our objectives are so, on the left hand, side there's a.

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Direct push rig, which is a small drill rig which would allow us to reach deeper soil samples and.

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Some of the associated tooling is at the in the center top photo in the in the rack. There we've.

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Also used hand augers, which are used for shallower locations and also use manual direct push tools.

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In any case, the prescribed interval from the work plan, the material from the interval, is.

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Put into a clean, stainless steel bowl, which is pictured on the right there, it's the material.

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From the interval is homogenized with a clean, nitrile, glove or clean stainless steel spoon.

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And this is to prevent the sample that's collected and sent to the laboratory from.

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Being biased towards any one part of the interval, so it's homogenized across the entire interval and.

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Collected then, into the labs by container, when we collect soil samples of any type, we would record.

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The sample collection on a field data record or an fdr and for soil samples in particular.

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That information would include the soil, color soil type. So is it a gravel or clay or sand.

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Moisture content, and sometimes there are noticeable odors that we might record.

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As you all know, we've also collected a fair amount of surface water and sediments.

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Across the ri, so to start with, we have fresh water.

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Fresh and low tide samples that we would approach with hdpe tubing that we, the same type, that we.

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Would use for groundwater samples and a suction pump again like what we would use for groundwater.

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Samples- and in this case, we have um often have a pvc reach pole, which allows us to target the.

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Intake depth of the tubing to the depth of the water column that we're looking to sample.

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Which is typically, it would be prescribed in the work plan, but typically this is midwater column.

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So you can imagine in a three foot stream like the one in the top left there. We want to make sure.

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That we're safely able to reach that and that pvc reachable allows us to do that as we're sampling.

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We'll collect physical parameters of the water, so ph temperature things of that nature and for.

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For high tide and deeper samples in the bottom left, this is actually a high tide sample. So.

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You can just barely make out to the left of the boat. There's a.

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Not so much on the screen, but perhaps those those of you who are virtual um there's a temporary pvc.

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Marking pool and that's the same location where the low tide sample was collected, so we know.

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When we collect both low tide and high tide, we are going back to that same location, to collect.

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The second sample we'd use the same approach as I just described, but we'd um be on a boat so that we.

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Can safely access the location just to note the high tide and low tide samples are homogenized.

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Once they get to the lab they're both submitted to the laboratory and then homogenized, so that.

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The concentration that is received in the analytical results is representative of what.

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The biota in that at that location would be exposed to.

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So, along with sediment, we are surface water. We often collect co-located, sediment samples at so.

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At the same location- and I think, as you can tell from the photos when we collect sediment samples.

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It really kicks up a lot of that material, and so whenever we have co-located surface.

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Water and sediment, we collect the surface water first, so that is not influenced by the turbidity.

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That's kicked up when we are collecting the sediment samples itself, so this is similar to.

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Surface water and soil going to be driven by the accessibility of the location and our target.

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Depth so in the center photo we're approaching the sample with a a hand. Auger, like you saw on.

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The soil slide, but for shallower water bodies we would use, could use just a stainless steel.

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Spoon as a picture on the right and again similar to soil be collected directly into.

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First, a stainless steel bowl homogenized across the interval and then placed into.

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The lab supplied containers and similar um similar observations would be recorded on the field data.

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Record for the sediment, as were for the soil, so the type and any pertinent observations.

D

Next slide, you should clarify what you mean by homogenized yeah, absolutely so when.

D

When we collect say uh for the direct push samples, we have two feet of material.

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So that two feet of material would be collected into the bowl and the entire entirety of that.

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Material is going to be mixed together so that it's it's what's from a foot and a half.

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And half a foot and now everything in between that whole interval is mixed together, so that what is.

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Ends up in the hole is, is, is even evenly mixed and that way what ends up in the lab supply container.

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Isn't you know just what's from two feet? It's it's truly, a representation of the whole interval.

D

So last for you today, um fish and shellfish sampling, so we approach this the same way. You.

D

Might do recreationally that includes permitting, so we operate under a scientific permit and we.

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Collect our samples with so for shellfish, we have clam rake dip nuts hand, picking and for the.

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Fish sampling for the ri, we went out in a boat and used hook and line the target sample for shellfish.

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At any given location is ten individual, three samples of of ten individuals of a species so.

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Three times ten mussels or oysters it's sometimes, if you go out there, you may know that we are not.

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Able to collect that full number, so we are able to use a lesser number to cover that sample location.

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So when we collect the 10 individuals target, 10 individuals, all of the individuals from a location.

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Are then brought back to our field office they're, going to be shocked by our field staff? So the soft.

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Body is removed from the shells and 10 individuals are submitted and one container to the laboratory.

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And the laboratory homogenizes these before analysis. On the other hand,.

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The fish are submitted as one full organism for these samples. In particular, there are.

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Measurements and observations that can be kind of tricky to do in this in the field. This is pretty.

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Messy I'm sure the field staff can attest to so we bring them back to the field office, as you can.

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See in the bottom photos take some additional measurements that are reported on the field.

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Data record and then at that point um well for any samples of any media from the point of collection.

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Until they're ready to be shipped by the lab, they are either on ice in a cooler or kept in a.

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Refrigerator in our field office and once they're processed fdrs are ready to go they're all packed.

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Up in their appropriate containers and labeled, we have a sample tracking system that they are.

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Entered into excuse me, we prepared the shipping documents for the lab.

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Pack, the coolers and then send them off at that point, we'll send generally send an email that sort.

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Of passes the baton to our chemist and the lab, the chemist will track the samples through analysis.

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From lab logging, until we receive the final, the final data packages and in the midst of that time,.

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We have our tech leads like hate and amy who begin evaluation of this data. Looking at everything.

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We receive back in context of the this body of knowledge that we have built.

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So I hope that provides a little bit of clarity and what you can see us out there doing.

D

um And with that I'll, let hank start off with soil and surface water results. Thank you.

E

Geologist with wood and tonight I'm just going to talk about.

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Source areas and migration pathways and uh the uh in the past the past rats. You know I explained.

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That the investigation approached the ri investigation approach. uh The way we.

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uh Executed it we, you know, we looked at source areas or we were going to look at source areas.

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uh We were going to look at migration pathways uh and there's several uh in the past. I I've already.

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Covered one of those which was groundwater uh and then you're going to look at potential receptors.

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And so tonight uh it's it's, uh I'm going to be talking about source areas and specifically.

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Surface water as a as a migration pathway. So uh on this slide you know what you see is the peninsula.

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Great bay to the left and uh the river to the right, uh a little bay up in the corner, there.

E

Upper left, the red outline is the former base boundary and those polygons there. The gray and.

E

The red polygons are areas and there's 20 of them. There's areas that we investigated uh the soil.

E

For uh what was no fast contamination, so we investigated those areas as potential source areas.

E

And uh the red and what we did there, we basically kind of uh peppered the site.

E

You know with with soil uh with soil samples uh like uh bailey was describing these in the.

E

The geoprobe direct push rig and collect the soil samples and they were from surface soil.

E

Samples generally down the water table, so the areas in red are uh are the areas.

E

There's there's five of them that exceeded uh the regional screening levels uh for for.

E

And that that level is uh and it's a dermal it's a thermal contact exposure.

E

Ingestion, durable thermal contact and that's 0.13 milligram per kilogram, so those those areas there.

E

And there's no there's no surprise. Those are those areas there and there the the the areas.

E

The numbers the coincide and the polygons go inside the legend on the right. You can see.

E

What areas, those are uh there's no surprise there. uh They did use uh feature board in those areas.

E

uh And uh so uh the other, the other piece of this, uh that we don't have data on yet, but we're also.

E

Looking at the chemical we're using chemical modeling to look at the potential leaching of.

E

These p fast compounds to groundwater, and so these other areas, uh the gray areas in some.

E

Cases there was line of tech for those. In some cases it was, uh it was trace or certainly below.

E

Below the regional screening levels, but we're going to look at we're looking at those areas.

E

Also with respect to this leaching, so once the once, the modeling chemical modeling gets done.

E

We'll be able to evaluate kind of the threshold concentration that could be, I guess left in the.

E

Soil that wouldn't cause uh not that seems to leave it soil, but it's the level at which the the.

E

Concentration of soil uh causes it a problem to to ground water. It elevates the concentration for m1.

E

So that's that's! Coming down coming down the road we're still working on that next slide. Please.

E

So uh what I'm going to talk about next is the contaminant migration pathway uh created by the.

E

Surface waters, and so the surface waters are the little blue squiggly lines here.

E

And um you know if you, if you notice the the runways in the middle there, you can see.

E

The runway from the air photo uh and all the the the surface water bodies are all kind of drained.

E

From the center portion of the peninsula, they're they're going out they're going into great bay.

E

They're going into a little bay going into the river, so they're they're flowing radially.

E

From from, essentially the high point of the peninsula, which is, is the runway and site, eight.

E

And so uh all these all these surface waters they start uh they start essentially as springs.

E

And and what that means is that there's shallow groundwater, that daylights uh out.

E

It comes out it's exposed at the surface as the spring, so each one of these these.

E

Surface water bodies see there originate as as groundwater springs from shallow ground water and.

E

Also, there's a there's a subsurface storm storm water system beneath the uh beneath the airfield.

E

And uh the most prominent uh uh discharge of that is uh mcintyre brook uh which, uh if you could.

E

Show that was the first repair. That's that area there so.

E

Where that at the headwaters of that is, is uh directly from the uh storm water system,.

E

Much of the storm water or some of the storm water, so much of it, but a good portion of it.

E

Maybe a third of it is: is water is underground water uh all year round? So in the middle of august,.

E

When uh there's not much rain, there's still water flowing out of the at the headwater.

E

Of mcintyre growth, so that's it what we call base flow and so there's some other uh streams.

E

uh That are some other uh effluents uh points from the storm water system that receive.

E

uh Base flow, so that's direct groundwater, uh so in in some respects you could you could.

E

You could say that those are actually springs also because they are getting daylight and groundwater.

E

So uh the surface water uh concentration uh at uh most of these streams uh uh are are contaminated.

E

To some in some degree, the concentrations at the headwaters of most of these is is very similar to.

E

The concentration of the shallow groundwater at that location, and I in the last graph I talked.

E

About groundwater contamination as a groundwater as a migration pathway- and I showed you.

E

Maps that show them the extent of that so most of the or all of these locations here at their.

E

Headwaters have pretty much the same concentration uh as the shallow groundwater at that location.

E

But it's not true necessarily downstream and I'll talk about that in a little bit next slide. Please.

E

So this is this: is uh this slide? I presented it the last wrap and I'm just going to revisit it.

E

Because it's uh it's, it's very useful. I think um so what I meant by uh the not the same downstream.

E

So the the concentrations in these streams uh generally doesn't vary too much from the source.

E

Area down to the discharge area, I mean there is some dilution going on, but it's still.

E

Contaminated uh but the groundwater, underneath it is not it, it doesn't follow that that same pattern.

E

And here's why so uh the seat on this slide here circle that that's that's the daylight.

E

In groundwater, so the the yellow to the right of it is the upper sand aquifer which says us.

E

So that's the shallow aquifer piece and there's a lower there's a deeper aquifer, the lower the lower.

E

Sand aquifer the orange and then then below that you get into bedrock bedrock groundwater, so.

E

Between the upper sand aquifer and the lower sand aquifer is the marine clay silk, and this is a it's.

E

A it's a very clay, silty material, and it varies in thickness, and it's not it's not continuous across.

E

The whole peninsula, but it's it's quite extensive. It doesn't allow a lot of vertical migration.

E

So as the as the shallow groundwater in the upper sand, daylights at this at these springs.

E

And and now it flows down as a brook or a stream, it's sitting on top of the marine.

E

Clay: silk and it's not it's not going vertically. It's not it's not draining through this replace.

E

Silt because it's essentially inflammable the most part, and so that's what uh that's what's.

E

Keeping the the lower sand from uh at least at the downgrading extent of these, these strains from.

E

Being as contaminated as as the streams are so next slide, please.

E

So here's here's the summary of the of the data for surface waters again.

E

Just to you know refresh this that each one of these streams, the headwaters.

E

The concentrations are similar uh to what we found in shallow groundwater at those locations.

E

And as you go downstream, uh there is, there is some dilution and uh but uh but.

E

Generally, uh the groundwater beneath it as you go downstream, is much more much more duplicated. The.

E

From a risk perspective, there are several several surface water bodies that.

E

And that includes watering springs, tiffany brook flagstone, brook and paul brook that exceeded the.

E

Regional screening levels for children swimming now, whether or not you can actually swim in these.

E

Those water bodies- oh I'm, not going to make that call, but but so there are a few that have.

E

That exceed the risk, the re regional screening levels.

E

These colors on this map, the labels, all the labels. If you see a label on a stream, we sampled.

E

It so uh every everything on here pretty much we sampled, so the color coding uh on the on this.

E

On this map is uh reflects the groundwater concentration, and I- and I and I previous raps,.

E

Someone had asked if we can make the color, because we had.

E

Dot plots in previous which we're not showing now, but we had dot plots previously shown.

E

uh In previous wraps and- and I think at one point, we had a different uh scale, we, the the surface.

E

Water wasn't the same as as the groundwater, and someone said well. I want to make it the same.

E

Well, it's it's! It's! The standards for groundwater in new hampshire are applicable for surface water.

E

However, from a from an understanding standpoint to kind of wrap your head around it, it is useful.

E

To just to see to be able to compare so that's what we did here, uh the the we're comparing.

E

The surface water to the groundwater hqs standard in new hampshire, it's it's not applicable.

E

But it helps you kind of put it in the into the framework of groundwater contamination in what.

E

What I've shown previously at previous wraps? So, if it's, if it's red, if the label on the screen is, is.

E

Orange or red it exceeds the agqs if it's red, it exceeds it by a factor of 10., and this is just for.

E

P fox, I'm just showing p here uh the similar, the similar distribution for p-fola and uh p-f-h-x-s.

E

uh But p-foss seem to be pretty representative of kind of a summary of what we're finding here.

E

So- uh and I- and I mentioned before- that, uh the concentration of groundwater isn't isn't.

E

It doesn't follow the same pattern that the surface waters do so.

E

Mcintyre broke, then we need to circle that again, uh macropower brooke is right there and, and that.

E

That, based on um the groundwater standards, uh it's it's elevated, it's a factor of 10, but if you were.

E

To put a well in, we have wells in there and we take a water water sample, we're at trace levels.

E

In the groundwater below that, and and that is due to the fact that you have a marine place still.

E

That is preventing that vertical migration uh going down so essentially uh that that silt.

E

Creates uh effectively a culvert, a natural culvert, that's preventing vertical migration of this.

E

um That's about it uh all. I have to say right now. I'll certainly take questions.

E

After we're all done here, I'm just gonna pass this over to uh to amy and she's gonna uh talk about.

E

Fish and shellfish uh results from sampling, and I just wanna say to do a time check right now. We're.

C

At 6.5 we're supposed to go break at 6 40, so we might push that break back a little bit, but.

C

Just want to knit that for everyone right now, thanks all right. Thanks, hank, um I'm amy clinton.

D

I'm human health voice, assessor with woods, contractor for the air force um for those of.

D

You who don't know me uh so I'm gonna be talking about fish, shellfish and eggs. Today um I will try.

D

To project to the owl, but definitely let me know if anybody can't hear me in front or behind um so.

D

These are potentially complete pathways, uh two of which we have not sampled previously shellfish. We.

D

Had samples during the expanded site inspection as many people will remember, so we did a lot of.

D

Re-Sampling in shellfish as I'll talk about as we go through um and our you know, our main uh purpose.

D

Of looking at these uh through, these media is to see, is there a potentially complete pathway from.

D

Pipas to move from peas into fish, shellfish and eggs and the reason we need those is of course.

D

Because people can eat them, so it is um kentifos from peas into a human food chain. Through these.

D

These foods, so uh the first one that I will talk about, will be uh from surface water, so hank talked.

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About surface water and how uh pfast can move into surface water, um and we know that surface.

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Water has a certain level of phosphate and from there I can move into freshwater fish specifically.

D

um And can also move into shellfish and we'll be talking about marine shellfish here.

D

And then the other pathway I'll be looking at is the eggs. So hank has also gotten a.

D

Bunch of discussion about groundwater at the past grab, and we know that we have.

D

A certain amount of peacocks in groundwater and in some private wells it is extracted and it can.

D

Lead to water, chickens and once chickens have uh keep fastening their water. Then they.

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Get excreted from the eggs, so those will be the pathways that we'll be discussing.

D

So just do a big picture first and then we'll talk about a few more details.

D

So fish shellfish and eggs, the freshwater fish- um these are fish- can be sampled in the purely.

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Drainage system so we'll go into the map and we'll look at where those are um it's an area where.

D

Fishing is currently prohibited, so it's important to know that no one is currently eating these fish.

D

And definitely have keto's concentrations above the screen levels. I wanted to just make a small.

D

Clarification haley was absolutely correct that we sent the entire organism to the lab, but what.

D

Was sampled was actually a fillet example, um so they sampled the piece of fish that allegedly.

D

Would be eaten if someone was to cook it up, cut it up and actually eat it, so it was not the entire.

D

Fish that was sampled, so if the entire fishbowl is sampled, we would expect probably to see higher.

D

Concentrations because the opal tends to uh tends to bioaccumulate even more than the muscle tissue.

D

For fish, um so we know we have experiences of risk brain levels for, and I also want to mention.

D

That I'm going to be talking a lot about photos specifically. So when we talk about animals and.

D

Bioaccumulation into animals, it's typically k-phos- that is the primary driver, so it has.

D

Uptake factors tend to be higher; it tends to be a that we detect and in higher concentrations. So.

D

um You will see more discussion of p posts, but we will talk about the other chemicals when we.

D

Get to the figure uh so freshwater, fish above risk, green levels, shellfish concentrations of.

D

P, false were below the screen levels. The other creep us were not detected in shellfish at all. So.

D

That's why they're not mentioned here and then as far as eggs, we won't get into a lot of detail.

D

With eggs, part of what chris was talking about the different rules, around data sharing, uh we.

D

Have very few examples of eggs, so not enough for us, unfortunately, to do statistics or to provide.

D

Summary data, um but we will, you know we did detect both specifically um and so.

D

We have identified the pathway there and we'll talk about what our next steps will be for us.

D

So I'll start off talking a little more about eggs. This figure we showed last time it shows all.

D

Of the sample locations for the entire backyard produce sampling event, so that included the homes.

D

That we sampled for vegetables, fruits and also pasture grass out of those 12 total properties, two.

D

Of them had were watering chickens in this water that was identified to have pcos in that water.

D

So our selection process included, you know, soliciting residential input. We.

D

Had those residential questionnaires that we sent out, we spoke to homeowners.

D

To find out if they were actively watering chickens with private water, we sampled that.

D

Water to identify if there was pfas detected in the water before sampling, the eggs.

D

We'll go through this starting with the left side, so we'll start with the arrow. So how does the.

D

Peoples get into the chicken well chickens are not only are they drinking the water but they're also.

D

Eating the soil chickens use soil, that's part of their digestive process. They tend to peck around.

D

um They pick up little stones and eat them as part of their digestion. They also eat insects as well.

D

So they have several things that are potentially going into a chicken which could have beef.

D

So all of that you know potentially can go into the chicken and then can be excreted in the eggs.

D

So as part of our sampling program, we also sampled the not only the water, so the drinking water, the.

D

Instagram, water but the chickens are drinking, but we also sampled soil. That's in the chicken pens.

D

To see how that compared, and we also sampled the chicken feed just to see whether or not there was.

D

Any potential p-plus influence from the chicken feet so moving to the right side of this figure.

D

Of this slide, so we collected whole egg samples, but there's also research out there suggesting.

D

That pfas tends to be fun primarily in the yolk. We also looked at yolk versus white to see if we were.

D

Seeing the same trend- and I said, as I said, there were only two homes- sampled, so unfortunately it's.

D

Just a very small data set at this point, um so we don't have um enough information really to be able.

D

To share it um in any more detail than this, but we you know we did detect posts and we will be.

D

Evaluating it further we'll be evaluating further in the risk assessment and uh we're also proposing.

D

To collect more data so we'll be resampling likely those homes should we be given permission, but we.

D

Also may be expanding that out a little further, possibly looking at homes that have previously.

D

Watered chickens to try to expand our network a little bit so, let's see where we go from there.

D

So in just a moment, we're going to switch over to gis and we'll look at uh as the figure it will be.

D

A repeat of the figure that you received, but also we have the esi data on hank's gis as.

D

Well, so we can see how the esi around that's the expanded site, inspection round, that we did in 2018.

D

And how that compares to the ri route that we did so first, I'm going to talk through this fox.

D

Pollock legend, which looks really complicated at first there's a lot going on in this slide, so the.

D

Figure is just a snapshot of the ri shellfish data and then start on the top of this figure. You will.

D

See yeah, yes, we have os and pfoa. So what we're showing here is the epa region. One screen levels.

D

And there's been quite a bit of mentioning of the screen levels so far, this time.

D

But I want to be clear that these are the 2017 screening values that were developed by epa region.

D

1., these are likely prone to change in the very near future. So epa is in the process of adopting.

D

The atsdr tax values, which will drop all of the p folks and o values by an order of magnitude, so.

D

Times 10 lower um and there will also be values for pfna and pf hxs. So that is the change. That's.

D

Coming currently, this dna policy is to continue using these values, so um I will talk when we get.

D

To figure a little bit about how the results will change where we to adopt those new values.

D

So those are the numbers that we're looking at here and we're used for comparison.

D

And then, if you look at the color chart on the left, you will see that.

D

All of the shellfish either fall under a gray, white or green, and so either it wasn't sampled.

D

And none of that was an intentional, not sampling. Essentially uh it was. There was officially.

D

Abundant it was sampled. um Ideally it was ten individual shellfish. Sometimes it was eight.

D

Seven four: it was basically what we could find we sampled. uh So if there's a race where there.

D

It it wasn't a lack of trying, it was simply they weren't abundant and that location at that time.

D

So again, as I said, it's gray, white or green, and so the white are non-detect you're going.

D

To see, there's quite a few white squares and then green is detected, but it's lower than that tier.

D

1 screen level and we would see some changes to whether or not there are any orange squares, atscr.

D

Studies but we'll talk about that in a little while uh so the final square. On this legend.

D

uh So, as I probably mentioned earlier, all of the three boxes are always in the same order.

D

So it's always really pfps, first and foa last and the stacking will also always be the same.

D

So they're stacked and there's a whole bunch of different media shown. First, one is gonna.

D

Be surface water that has a w the next one is sediment with an s, then it's blue muscle.

D

uh With an m c is soft. Shell gland three is stock gel plants. If we found greater than three inches.

D

And the last one would be oysters. um I know we there still says max in a couple of places on this.

D

um That we didn't remove but anyways. If there was uh as haley mentioned, there were sometimes three.

D

Replicates up to three replicas taken for each species, so it just means three separate samples.

D

So what we're depicting here is the maximum concentrations of the highest of those three.

D

So we'll just look at the fish box plot quickly and it's essentially the same as the shellfish.

D

With a few key changes, so when we're looking at screening levels on the top, uh the fish.

D

Values are similar to the shellfish values, but they are a separate value to use for fish.

D

And another key difference is: when you look at the color chart, you notice very orange red and.

D

Indeed, the red do show up for fish, so red is more than 10 times above the spinning level. So.

D

The overall story for fish change: if we adopted those lower values, it would just be, then it would.

D

Be greater than time times and greater than 100 times, so they are not a great surprise freshwater.

D

Fish do bioaccumulate uh peoples very um very rapidly, and uh we did see that here baby. I just.

D

Have a quick question sure what like this is that mcintyre growth like what is this is p really so.

E

You're looking at stubs pond okay right here and the the second one is uh alpha peter. The quant.

D

There was a lower feverly pond, but it's gone so do people eat from this? This is all fishing.

D

Is prohibited it's within the wildlife reserve, so there's there should be no fishing. We reached out.

D

To um don't forget exactly, but I think we reached out to the reserve and talked to them about.

D

Poaching, whether or not they had caught anyone or were aware of poaching- or you know, illegal fishing.

D

I could say, um and they had not had issues with illegal fishing there, that stuff they were aware.

D

Of uh you know so we're reasonably confident that nobody's eating these fish currently.

D

And we'll talk a little more yeah, so there's different species here that are depicted obviously.

D

They're, not a shellfish species, so these are the fish species we were able to catch um largemouth.

D

Bass- and there are just hard to see on this figure, but those large wild bats were caught in both the.

D

Upper pond and in stop spawn and uh sunfish and shade pickerel were both caught in the upper pond.

D

They were not caught in the lower cot. We also attempted to catch eels. We set out eel traps for.

D

A weekend or several days- and we were not able to catch eels during this time like that either.

D

To make some money make some money we think I mean it may have. There probably are eels, but it was.

D

Later in the year as possible, they just weren't active terribly active at that time of the year.

D

So it was partially probably a matter of timing, um but, as you can see, we weren't able we were.

D

Attempting to catch um two or three different fish species per each water body and because.

D

Keep us can accumulate very differently for species. um You can see, some species will be just.

D

Way above screening levels- and sometimes we see musics that aren't and there's not always a lot.

D

Of primaries into it, so it's best to just sample a wide variety. um However, you know in that bottom.

D

Pond, we only did find our in-stop spot where we did find, but the ones basically were able to catch.

A

And then we should be moving toward this switch soon.

A

If we can to chris thanks amy, I know you're gonna have to.

C

Do my last two slides fairly quickly too so.

D

All right, uh thanks, hank.

D

So I think hank is sharing right now, the ri shellfish data, so this is the same data set.

D

That was depicted on the figure that you looked at and you provided in the pre-grad materials.

D

So I I think, probably a couple of big picture things on this, but first, let's start by just.

D

Kind of um just reminding you what we saw on the legend, so there's three boxes that are stacked in.

D

Each of these right and they're, always in the same order so vfps um yeah, os and yeah, and the pfos.

D

Generally, if there's something detected, in fact, pfos was the only chemical that was detected in.

D

The shellfish, so it's not it's only your show open under all um and you can see.

D

In most cases, it's white there's not a lot of cases in which it was actually detected.

D

So a few things I want to point out here uh all of the locations that are on the peninsula.

D

Itself so they're kind of clumped together right now um around the border. The outline.

D

Of the former peace air force base, these are all targeted locations, so there are locations.

D

That are either at the very end of discharge: surface water discharge or there's somewhere.

D

Where you know, we had reason to believe there should be bus that was connected to peace and.

D

Then there are two locations on the other side of water and those are backwards. Locations.

D

So there are locations that are they're not associated with specific discharge from the keys.

D

um A little different from the site distance from the site and we didn't do a hampton beach location.

D

This time in the esi we had a much further away location, but we found no impacts in these.

D

These two reference locations that were closed for these, so we just stuck with those for this.

D

This event, um okay, so uh just briefly, what would change if we looked at the the atsdr tax values.

D

We would see that these detections and cubes go in just a tiny bit. I think so we can see so.

D

We'll start kind of looking at the top trickiest cove and broad cove did have some detections and.

D

Those both would exceed the new spreading values if we were to lower it by, in order to find two.

D

And I want to mention too that so the new you know upcoming possible potential new screening values.

D

And there are also um because we are in the state of new hampshire. There are state-specific.

D

Screening values too, that we also, you know, do you know consider, because we are within.

D

You know within new hampshire and the state specific security values.

D

It will actually be slightly higher, so less conservative than the new tier 1 epa.

D

So amy sorry to interrupt. Can you speak a little more slowly for the people from the virtual.

D

These new screening values the way that they compare to the new hampshire values.

D

Is that they're just slightly lower? So if we talk about what the results are with relation.

D

To the new upcoming security values, that's also very similar what the results would be if you use.

D

A new hampshire, specific uh screening values uh considerable challenge, so uh we did uh just to see.

D

What it would look like, we did run it with that um and we have uh you know we do have extensive.

D

Screening values, but the next step, when you exceed excluding value, because these screening values.

D

Are set at um 10 of the safe level? Okay, so that's why, when you're looking at a screening value, we.

D

Say well, is it above and then we say well, is it 10 times and that 10 times is not arbitrary? It's ten.

D

Times because we've set the screening value at ten percent, so you know it it. It's an important factor.

D

um So when you look at these screening values, uh if you know if we were to use the new ones and.

D

We were to look at the exceedance- it's not 10 times above it's still within these thresholds,.

D

So are they still having trouble hearing me? Sorry, I've seen that popping up. um So I think.

D

Now perhaps we could put on the esi data? What we're going to do is we're going to show the esi.

D

And the rs data side by side and kind of scroll go into trickiest code, so this is trippy's code.

D

Where we've typically or within the esi, we found the highest uh concentrations and that.

D

Was the same, we saw the same trend this time, but it was also. It was a little bit lower in general.

D

uh The results were lower in this round than during the esi route for the shellfish, and they.

D

Were um there were less detections overall than we saw last time so, for example, some esi data, so the.

D

2018 data look at this chronologically is on the left and then the ri round is on the right here.

D

So if you see the oyster on the bottom, the o there was a detection in the esi.

D

And there's no detection for the ri on the right. So although it was samples.

D

So essentially, I think hank's just going to kind of give us a little tour of how these.

D

Needs relate and then here we are at broadcove and again you know: there's an oyster detection in 2018.

D

But not in um in the ri round and now as we move into the west side of the peninsula,.

D

These locations were not resampled, so it's only the ri location. They were identified as potential.

D

Data gaps, so we didn't know data there before and we said well, you know maybe we're missing.

D

Something in some cases there's not a specific stream or there's a there's, an outfall that you.

D

Know doesn't have high levels of pcos in it, so they weren't initially targeted in the esi.

D

So so these you know these locations were sampled and they were all non-detect in the um data. So.

D

And you'll notice too, the sediment is also not detect. um There is some.

D

Keypad showing up in the surface water and in many cases it's all three pfps pfos and pfoa.

B

As you did for uh for tricky scope, can you just announce where each of the locations is when.

B

Hank scrolls there yep um yes, so now we're here. This is um with woodman's point and nanny's island.

D

um The our idea that these are showing up side by side and the esi data was a kind.

D

Of a combination of the two but the ri data is actually, I think, only at work and again.

D

There was a detection in the muscle in esi, but there's no detection in the ri for the same day.

D

And um here this is the outfall, uh where steps pond.

D

And again you see an oyster detection for the esi, but not the ri data. A little bit of difference.

D

In abundance, there are some very squares that are different for each one, and here this is the.

D

Outfall of mcintyre brook and uh there's less less shellfish found this time, but also um oyster.

D

We didn't find a detection, even though we did have oysters um clam. The results were similar.

D

D

And the reference locations again were unimpacted as far as the eye.

D

Valves are concerned, we did see a little surface. Water detection in both of those.

D

So the paint's just showing the reference location on the.

D

Left side of the screen, all right: let's put the fish data on.

A

Amy, if you and hank can try to really focus on the takeaway points where it's.

A

Most important and then the participants can ask about specific things and we can zero in.

A

Also during q, a that would be great, I know we're getting there so there's nothing really.

D

Additional to show in the fish, so we can click on this one. um We basically already talked about what.

D

Those uh different species are so again, there's a studs pond and an upper favorite really bond.

D

um It's not the highest surface water body uh on the entire peninsula, but it is one of the.

D

Largest, the one with fish that would technically be fishable, um so we did find, you know, can size.

D

And larger, I think uh the one largemouth bass that we caught in steps pond was.

D

Good-Sized fish, so there are good. You know: fishable healthy, looking fish in.

D

Steps one um but, as I said, it's fishing is prohibited differently. So all right.

D

I will reshare my slides and.

D

D

All right, so, just in summary, um so fish again, we had phos. That was above those um risk thresholds.

D

uh Currently prohibited, and it will of course be evaluated further in the risk assessment and then.

D

Shellfish, no health concern no health concern when we look at the new values or the new hampshire.

D

Specific values as well um so that basically backed up or even showed you know more positive.

D

Results than the esi data did for that round um and then edge. You know peak post, as we said.

D

Was detected um so it will be evaluated further um risk assessment and um additional data collections.

D

For those, so that's everything from me and I will head back all right really quickly. I just wanted.

C

To share with you some new upcoming projects that do not deal with so this first one is going to be.

C

Legacy systems and demolition. So for those of you who aren't in the know, there are roughly eight.

C

Moth mothball treatment systems from the legacy sites that are still out there, some of them in a.

C

Fairly bad state of disrepair, so this project, which will be awarded probably in the coming.

C

Months will be to evaluate those systems and get rid of up to eight of them if they're deemed.

C

So that's site restoration and beautification with folks of one day being redeveloped.

C

Next slide, please- and this last one from me, so we can get to our break.

C

um This is the we're going to be reevaluating some fuel sites that are currently they're all.

C

Part of our long-term monitoring program, so pretty intensive monitoring program that we currently.

C

Have for this specific project? Just because these sites have been out there for a long time.

C

That we want to reevaluate them, make sure that the active remediation that's currently.

C

In place because should remain, or something else needs to be done to make sure and bump.

C

Up the treatment levels around those sites, but um just wanted to let the group know that.

C

Pfest is not all we're still doing here on ps, we'll keep you in the loop as these projects.

C

Start kicking off and start to start doing their field work just clarify. It just means.

D

They were kind of left in place and they just stopped on and so now they're just disrepairing.

C

Okay, that's it for me! Thank you! So, let's take down the slides, I.

A

Think because two and a half hours is too long to go without at least a brief.

A

Bio break: let's take just like five minutes. People can get their thoughts in order. Everybody.

A

Stretch presenters get a glass of water and then we'll start up in five minutes. So 6 53.

A

With rab discussion about all of that, thank you. Everyone very much.

A

We're gonna get started again, I'm sure that felt fast. It was fast.

A

Can the room be unmuted, so we can hear you.

A

All right um welcome back, can people here: where can those in the room help get people's attention.

A

Thanks peter, I saw I saw the thumbs up. um Sorry, I know, especially for those of you.

A

In person that was probably like lickety-split quick, um but we want to jump into conversation.

A

With rab members- and I think mike donahue you've had the first question so we'll go to you.

A

And then we have four questions from jamie payne in the chat that we'll just work through.

A

One at a time, um rab members who are on the zoom feel free to raise your virtual hand. There's.

A

That little raised hand button at the bottom or put a note in the chat. If you would like to get.

A

Into the queue rab members who are in the room and would like to ask questions or share.

A

Thoughts, please put your name placard up or catch cameron's eye and he's gonna help us keep an.

A

Order, but if it's okay, I'd like to start with mike donahue, have some discussion about the topic he's.

A

Raising and then we'll go to jamie's questions and move from there so mike over to you, you are muted.

E

E

Some people would like to do that to me, but they're, not here of chris. I.

E

I guess I want to say that I think.

E

You take this very seriously in having you know, accounted this difficulty about the the defense.

E

Authorization act, but this has been a problem apart from that with this group, um since long.

E

Before you know, you came and joined us. We we more than once and I've had this dialogue with the tank.

E

You know some of the technical, very good technical sessions we had last february. I would say.

E

We often feel as rap members that are here trying to help the air force communicate to the community.

E

These issues that were, we in particular, have one hand type behind our back.

E

Because the authorizations that were originally pursued to obtain.

E

The participation, I guess, of our local citizens in newington in particular in this case.

E

This didn't really emerge as a big issue as related to activities on the base with you know,.

E

The serious issues here, but now that you're essentially off the reservation.

E

With this and you are dealing with entirely private property, this has been an issue.

E

Since I came to the first meeting I came to when there are people that have been here.

E

Longer than I have that have found this to be difficult because we're put in a situation where.

E

It comes up amy, it's it's all over this issue about you know what size do you make.

E

These areas that you check on whether it's for the gardens or whether it's now it's chickens.

E

You are relying on information that you have that you can't tell the public about.

E

You can't tell the rap members who spend a lot of time trying to look at this stuff.

E

Not as much as you guys do, I'm sure putting it together and thinking about how to present it.

E

But we put a lot of time in trying to understand it and we have a great deal of difficulty because.

E

We run into this stone wall of. We cannot tell you where the water, where the wells are, that.

E

Are giving us this data? That's causing us to even at the rifs phase, exclude these particular areas.

E

And the fact that it's now in the national defense uh authorizing act, uh you know the house of money.

E

Here I hope that gives more attention to this issue. I hope that results in in a directive.

E

That your access forms years ago should have been changed. People can refuse to sign them. People can.

E

Say no, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna. Do it and they say, or I will only do it if you keep this in those.

E

You know in a locked, safe somewhere, but my belief is the vast majority of the citizens in newington.

E

All they want to do is know more about what the problem is and they would have signed.

E

Something that was properly prepared that allowed this information to be available.

E

So- and this is not of your making- I I see you have this tremendous burden of you know and you.

E

Have to take back information which I'm sure was a fire drill and you know not fun, but it doesn't.

E

Surprise us at all this is this is a problem at a much higher level built into this whole thing.

E

And it really affects the ability of the rap to help you.

E

Never mind the citizens to support you once you know, what's really going to make a decision.

A

Thank you guys. Thank you. Let's uh invite you guys and your willingness to bring.

C

Forth on this, uh you know during this venue I mean it's a you, have a big voice and I think.

C

That was a wonderful comment to have. I don't want to call the congressional representative.

D

Hi everyone uh for those of you who haven't met animals with mckenna with senator sheeple's office.

D

um And uh chris just asked me to kind of share an update on you know uh this section of the nba.

D

So the overall, so I think the quote you had up there was the subsection, the 345 section of nda.

D

Aims at overall greater transparency that was congress's intent of that section. So from our.

D

Perspective, we do think this subsection. um We do not think this subsection should have affected.

D

Ongoing data sharing- that's been taking place for years, um you know and going on in the community.

D

The department of defense has taken a bit more of a conservative.

D

Legal interpretation of the guidance, so uh we've met with the air force. We've been meeting with the.

D

Senate armed service committee, other stakeholders uh trying to come to a resolution about this. I.

D

Don't have anything more sure than that at this time, but we're definitely looking into the issue.

D

Trying to make sure we get to a resolution quickly for folks, so that um continue sharing.

D

That data with the public, because that was the the transparency of greater transparency.

D

Was definitely the intent of congress so try to work through that language? There.

C

The air force has to follow the letter of the law. I presented to you the interpretations that.

C

I was given and how the air force is implementing this currently.

C

We're also trying to keep it consistent in the air force. I mean this is.

C

As you know, this is a this is a broad brush with this one. It's not just brackets active as well, so.

C

You know, obviously we hope some changes are made soon. um Maybe the senate can take care of.

C

That quicker than we would hope, but then, until that time we have to stay our course and again.

C

I appreciate your comments because, yes, this was a burden for me and then and also the team and it's.

C

Just nice to it's for you to bring that up in such a way. Thank you. Can you circulate that permission.

C

I had the conversation so yeah, you know somebody shows up with this form, all of a sudden out of.

C

The blue, you want to share this data now. What does your gun reaction? Tell you next, we need. We don't.

C

That's my personal opinion, of course. That's not a representation of the air force, but um things are.

C

In the works, let's just put it there with the air forces, obviously, like I said, trying to keep things.

C

Uniform throughout the service- and um so things are in motion.

C

And we'll keep you posted as they as make some progress throughout this.

A

Thank you. Let's go to jamie's question jamie, unfortunately had to step away, but he had four.

A

Pretty clearly formulated questions in the chat, so the first one is whether um here I'll read it. The.

A

Air force is a department of defense entity and is following their own 2021 direction on when to.

A

Consider state statutes when they clean up ambient groundwater. What are des and epa's thoughts or.

A

Comments on the 2021 guidance- that is the first question so mike or peter thoughts on that.

B

I'll certainly say that we're thrilled that the air force now has the ability to step in and take.

B

Over the private, well response for those houses that were exceeding our standards but below the.

B

Epa's lifetime health advisories, so I understand that there are some constraints placed on.

B

uh How they make that determination, but uh it seems as though they're able to to uh address.

B

All the all of the properties that we're still in question, thank you mike. Do you.

A

Want to add anything to that daily, um I don't. I I'm not completely clear on the the question.

B

I recall when we talked about this last time, I think um sharon's on the call uh you know: sharon.

B

Talked about arars, I I you know so you have. You know eras come into play once you establish that.

B

This is unacceptable risk and then you know then then you start, then the errors become. You know.

B

Identified and uh discussed and considered so I I'm not sure if that's what he meant, I I don't.

B

I'm not really sure what he means, but um let's let's go with hoping peter answered it and then.

A

I think jamie will circle back, I'm sure and look at the notes and the response and he can follow up.

A

With us, if that doesn't, thank you next question um in his thread, was about public disclosure.

A

Which was related- and I think maybe we feel like we're just sort of waiting for a moment on this.

A

But I'll read the question anyway, which is: has the air force sent out or do they plan to send.

A

Letters to the affected property owners asking if they're okay, to provide information to the public.

A

So have you thought of going back to places where you had access to also ask about sharing.

A

Information. Yes, of course, that is a discussion. That's ongoing. um I don't have an answer for.

C

Yet that the legal folks aren't talking it out, but just I want to let the group know that any.

C

Information that weighs the air force collect from a private property. We absolutely give it to them.

C

So it's um we're not withholding any information on private property from the property owners.

C

It's general uh disclosure to the public. That's currently at issue with the ndaa um that being.

C

Said, like the lawyers are working on some things, and so is obviously the senate that you have from.

C

Them earlier so collectively, we hope to see some resolution here fairly quickly. Thank you.

A

Question three from jamie um are similar wildlife reviews being done at other department of defense.

A

Facilities in the united states do we have other facilities to compare to.

A

And if so, do they have similar results near areas of 10 times rsl.

D

In general, the results are similar they're exactly what we expect.

D

We expect reasonably high concentrations, you know in marine shell fish. Typically, they don't.

D

Bioaccumulate high concentrations, so essentially, yes, the results of these are reasonably similar.

D

Given the age of left source, thank you and final question from jamie and then we'll go to mark.

A

And then andrea um is are all the streams that were shown on the surface water map with 10 times.

A

Rsl considered fresh water or any of those streams tidal in nature and if tidal flushing occurs,.

A

Is it a concern that levels are still 10 times rso, though, so, if we're referring to this, the.

D

Map that hank showed that was 10 times the agqs, which are groundwater standards, so.

D

It's not a relevant risk threshold. Hake was showing that really to give some information.

D

About how surface how groundwater is discharging to surface water as a migration pathway right so.

D

There's nothing that's 10 times the rsl in surface water. Thank you great. Let's go to mark.

A

Matson um next mark yeah, can you hear me we can yeah, I'm afraid my dogs are going to fire off.

B

In a minute because my wife just returned home but um I'll try to get these in the.

B

First is a general question about um this uh ndaa345a2. um It seemed a bit ambiguous about.

B

What's private and what's not, and specifically with respect to the water body, sampling.

B

Does do streams, surface waters of the state of new hampshire, the great bay estuary waters above.

B

And below are below high tide mark and surface waters are those clearly public or is that still.

B

To be resolved in terms of the availability of information from the sampling, there.

C

Well, what is what's private and what is not it's for the ndaa purposes. Private land, like I, had.

C

Mentioned is anything that's not governmental or tribal. So if it's owned by even a business.

C

A private business it is considered a private property. So if the u.s federal government, your.

C

State government, a tribe or a city city township, a piece of land that is all that is considered.

C

Public and so everything else, my understanding of surface water streams in new hampshire is that you.

C

Can have a person can reasonably access it as public as a public. Their coastlines are public.

C

And that's why we were able to show you, the shellfish or the water, the co-located water.

C

Samples there, and so that's kind of where we're at on that and then of course, some all the lines.

C

And the wildlife reserves are considered those governmental properties, so those were, we show you.

C

That information as well those likes and screens and such that we're running through those lines.

B

Okay, so being able to show the presentation on fish and well shellfish and sediment surface.

B

Means those places past the screening for public and remember the nda's section 345 a2 specifically.

C

Applies to water as it is currently written, it doesn't specify what type of water just.

C

That pfast samples from a water sample so that right now that is being deployed for all types.

C

Of water, not just drinking water, not just surface water or not just ground water, okay, so will um the.

B

Data that was summarized in the wood presentation on sediment surface water, fish and shellfish- be.

B

Available because well the reason why I'm asking is I'd like to take a more you know the devil's in.

B

The details I'd like to take a deeper look at it and, um like I did in the past, and I.

B

I can't really react much to the summary at this point. I'm just a detailed person.

D

Yes, we will be providing that mark. Okay, I mean it doesn't have to be tomorrow, but um um thank you.

B

And then related to that.

B

Noticing kind of related to jamie's question about the fresh, the streams mcintyre brook stuff like.

B

That that run into the bay and certainly a portion of each are tidally influenced.

B

um Because they're unimpounded and those with with 10x rsls.

B

Are nursery areas for.

B

um Bait fish that feed.

B

The fish that are commercially in sport fished for in great bay, like striped bass, for example,.

B

Specifically they're uh they can be, I don't know if they're all being used but nursery areas for.

B

And spawning areas for river herring, which are alewife and blueback herring, um perhaps shad.

B

That become incorporated into the the marine food chain by feeding I mean, there's.

B

Several publications that demonstrate that ten pounds of herring equals one pound of striped bass.

B

Basically- and that also implies bioamplification, um so are there plans down the road to maybe.

B

Look at some of these diagrams spawning species uh sample for contamination, so.

D

There are a couple of different things that I want to break up in relation to that, so there.

D

This particular assessment was very focused on the human health exposure, graphics right.

D

Now I understood understood so, just briefly: there will be an entire ecological risk assessment, so.

D

When you're talking about heron and other, like um you know, marsh animals um that will be dealt with.

D

In an ecological risk assessment separately, um so that's one thing and then the other thing I.

D

Wanted to mention is this fresh water. um You know pfas migrates really readily through fresh, fresh.

D

Freshwater, you know, as tank has depicted and as we've talked about, um but it doesn't seem.

D

uh Partially, because of the dilution, but also partially because of the salt water, we don't tend.

D

To find as high concentrations in those title areas that are influenced, um so I think it's.

D

You know we wouldn't expect and we typically you know someone else asked about other sites. Other.

D

Dod sites you know are, is what we're seeing here, similar to what we're seeing on other safety sites.

D

And we do have that experience of other sites where we have done large saltwater marine sampling.

D

Programs for fish for one reason or another and typically they're, all below screening thresholds.

D

The concentrations when you compare them to the freshwater fish tend to be significantly lower.

D

um So at this point there's um you know we're not not necessarily thinking of going out and.

D

Sampling marine fish for a few different reasons, but that's related to human health, ecological.

D

Risk they may make another determination. We haven't gotten there yet yeah. I was specifically.

B

In this case, asking about human health because of the consumption of striped bass,.

B

Relatively easy to sample and test um without trying to build the whole food chain connection.

B

Which would undoubtedly be through these anadromous forage fish species um anyways.

B

You might want to consider that um if nothing else other than to allay fears.

B

um You know, and finally I guess- and this is sort of a soapbox thing and I'm kind of a half empty.

B

Guy sometimes when it comes to this stuff, but um I'm not really assured that, because we're finding.

B

Levels in shellfish species below rsls that I'm ready to go out and start eating them.

B

And I'll just leave it at that. Thank you mark. Let's go to andrea.

A

um I have a lot of questions, um but I think I'll start. I guess with the ndaa.

D

I guess I have a reaction, a question and a request. My initial reaction is that you know.

D

This is deeply disappointing that this is the dod's interpretation of the ndaa.

D

As we heard from senator sheen's staffer elizabeth mckenna that you know that was.

D

Never the intention of the ndaa. If anything, it was to improve transparency and data sharing.

D

At the national level, I can tell you there's a lot of community members from dod sites.

D

Across the nation who are meeting with high-level dod officials such as richard kidd and paul.

D

Kramer and hopefully dr william, will plant at the pentagon level to really push the need for more.

D

Community engagement uh data sharing transparency um and that this action and this interpretation.

D

Is actually moving in the exact opposite direction of everything that we're trying to do.

D

And so it's just deeply frustrating to me and disappointing that we're at this this you know.

D

At this meeting, and not being able to really understand this data that we have been waiting.

D

For a very long time, for so I'm frustrated and I'm appreciative our congressional representatives.

D

Working quickly to try to resolve it as soon as possible, um I guess my question regarding.

D

It is that it's my understanding that this data also cannot be shared with new hampshire des. It's.

D

Not just members of the public, and so my question is how is this affecting new hampshire's des.

D

Ability to do their job if they can't receive this data, and then I guess real, quick I'll.

D

Just say my request is that once this issue is resolved, can we have a commitment from.

D

You chris, that if we need additional meetings to get the data in a more comprehensive way and if.

D

We have more questions. Will you commit to holding additional meetings for us, so we can get the data.

D

That we should have gotten tonight, but we don't have it well. I just want to reiterate that we.

C

Withheld nothing from you guys that we weren't this was this turned out to be almost planned.

C

Presentation we didn't have, there was no water slated on the docket for tonight's presentation.

C

So we withheld nothing, and um that being said in the future, when we, if, if we come back to the ri.

C

Water data- this is this- may still be a hindrance from that being said, I'm you know we can discuss.

C

Whether it's necessary to delay a future grab or schedule a technical breakout session or any of.

C

The options that are available to us, of course you know I I want to provide the the answers that you.

C

All need your communities. Obviously we have to follow the rules of the air force. I follow the.

C

Rules these these laws that are in the books, but yes, I understand your frustration. I appreciate it.

C

And this was this honestly: this was uh this came up on and over and it's hence the you know the.

C

Last minute, pulling of the presentation just to make sure we were in compliance, and so yes.

D

Yeah- and I think I'll just add that you know I hope in the future- we can go back to the.

D

Pre-Recorded video presentations, because we heard last time that that was very well received by the.

D

Rap that they could view the video ahead of time and really digest the information, and even tonight.

D

Receiving the slides ahead of time and listening to the information real time.

D

Is is quite overwhelming. It's highly technical and so being able to have that ahead of time is.

D

So critically important, so I hope moving forward regardless of the ndia resolution. Any meetings.

D

That we have, we can make sure that these video presentations are available, because I think it.

D

Makes it for me personally, it makes a tremendous difference in absorbing the information.

D

So with that peter, can I just ask you to respond to the question that is this. You know data this.

D

Inability for dod to share data with new hampshire des, if that's true,.

D

And if so, how is it affecting your ability to do your job, and uh if this continues for.

B

Much longer it will certainly will affect my ability to participate in this process.

B

And I know at this point we are there's the discussions occurring at the congressional level.

B

There's the discussions within osd and the air force.

B

Lawyers to try to resolve this, there has been some outreach by the brac program to des to see what we.

B

Can do in the short term to agree to receive the data and not disclose it. Those those talks are.

B

Slated to happen soon, so I should be back in the in the seat of being able to review the data. But.

B

Without the data, uh definitely my hands are tied and there's a lot of it that we need to really.

B

uh Wrap our minds around as we move forward with the next field season.

B

So uh very anxious to to get this result certain. Thank you um thanks. Andrea can we go to russell.

A

Russell a couple of different questions: some are just my own clarification, so when you're sampling.

B

When you're homogenizing a sample, if you're taking a core sample, what is the depth of the core sample.

E

And are you doing it at intervals of homogenization.

D

So that would be prescribed in the work plan so, for instance, um the source area direct push.

D

Soils were continuous, two foot intervals, so it was. You know, zero to two feet, two to four feet.

D

And so on for the death, so that's prescribed in the work plan. um But it's that foreign and.

E

Then that's cross-referenced against the type of material that you're pulling up.

E

So you're getting a kind of a view of yes, the subsurface yeah um and then on.

E

Sampling, how are the was it just kind of where the streams that have.

E

Contamination exit into little bay or great bay- that's was really the reason to.

E

Choose those particular locations so the locations I might have to defer a little bit on this one, but.

D

But there were a lot of different locations that were selected for the ri that were.

D

Potential some discharge areas, some were for um risk, but I'll let I'll let you go to that and the.

E

Way my my my world view of this. The way I look at it, amy that's risk. I do. I do consumer psych model.

E

Development, I look at the geology. The interaction between groundwater and surface water and.

E

You know where they might end up, and then we also look at.

E

Along that whole pathway, we look at you know: potential receptors.

E

And so these surface waters I mean the peninsula is kind of unique because all these surface waters.

E

Are our sprint and so their groundwater? They transmit groundwater. So I I I don't think of them.

E

As circuit there are surface waters technically surface ones, um and and but I think a man is just.

E

Kind of conduits for for uh accelerated conduits for shallow ground water when it comes out and.

E

It's just a migration, so we just we sample them. You know we just we sample them all, just because.

E

It's like. Okay, that's that's just sea! I mean this this whole. You know the area of.

E

Contamination in groundwater, the peninsula is big, and so all these beaks in the groundwater system.

E

uh Via these springs could potentially be contaminated, so we just looked at them all.

E

Right and it's been developed over the years too, this is something we just went and did in.

D

The ri, like we've, started this right right. You did broadcove broadco showed green, for I think oysters.

B

However, you didn't go back to fox point and fox points for all the commercial moisturizers and.

E

You have a water pipe that goes perpendicular in the town that should be carrying water.

E

Ambient groundwater fairly easily to that fox point area when you push crush down- and these are.

E

Actually, creating a means of the water transported easier right, yeah, that's it! Yes, that's that's true.

E

But uh that box point that most of the most of the water is going to be kind of shedding out into.

E

The broad cove and then the west side there, I'm thinking of the derm facing side where.

E

There is also a lot of a lot of oyster farms, but there's there's we haven't done any.

E

Groundwater contamination in that area, what's what I'm just saying, though, is the pipe goes through.

B

That area, which could possibly contain it, I'm just interested in the shellfish aspect of it, so both.

E

On that side of fox point and on a little further north of broad cove, all of the oysters from new.

E

Hampshire are harvested right in that area. Did you actually have a surface water and sediment.

D

Location that didn't make it onto that figure for some reason, but there is a sample location on.

D

Fox point: just on the northern: that's from the essence: no, it was from the ri and it didn't have a.

D

Co-Located shellfish sample with it. um We just basically did it as a data gap to see what the.

D

Concentrations were there to see if there was any potential risk, because so eventually, basically the.

D

Trekkies cove and the broadcove, those are the main discharges for surface water right and as.

D

Hank mentioned that was our primary. This is how p-class is getting from the base potentially into.

D

The morning waters but like you said there could be other preferential pathways, there could be.

D

You know discussion of whether or not there's any direct movement of groundwater migration.

D

So we did take a surface water sample up there and it's also, you know, below the rsl. It's similar to.

D

The other concentrations, so that helps, though, are you going to enjoy any further shellfish.

B

Examination um we'll probably talk about that more in the next grab. I don't know um you know exactly.

D

What the outcome of that is, but, as the results were quite a bit lower this time than the last.

D

One this seems like a pretty good confirmation round that we found is pretty accurate.

D

About that, thank you. I would like to.

A

Invite rab members who haven't had a chance to ask questions or make comments if you would like.

A

To get yourself in the queue to raise your hand or put a note in the chat or put your name placard up.

A

And also kind of last call for members of the public who would like to make public comment.

A

We have one person who put a note in the q a and I'll give arnie a chance to make public comment.

A

But if there's anybody else who wants to um please let linda or me know in the next couple of minutes.

A

So, let's go to um mike donahue I'd defer to anybody that hasn't had a chance.

E

E

E

When you, when you made the presentation related to.

E

E

You focused on the areas where you were comparing.

E

The ri results, the more recent results, the prior testing.

E

You didn't say anything about the two areas on the west side of.

E

The upper northern peninsula, where and apparently also on fox point, perhaps where.

E

Although you didn't find uh shellfish, you were finding surface water to at least be.

E

Detectable in that those areas and you've told us, the standard is likely to change.

E

So we don't know whether that color is going to go from green to orange. The surface water stays green.

E

So when you see in our because I remember from all the technical sessions, it was.

E

There's no reason why we're going to find it over there and that's why we never checked it before.

E

So you open, you opened it up and you checked and you know as a result of you know your own.

E

Investigation, I'm sure, but I I'd like to think it's because of those technical sessions we had.

E

Because you were leaving out a whole area where a lot of people have been doing them.

E

So now that you see it, how do you explain it.

E

Why is it in? Is it? Is it in surface water there, because it's actually in in great little bay.

E

Is that what it is, I hope not. I hope it's in that there's some other alternate explanation for this.

D

Well, I can tell you that they're very low levels as far as related to screening dogs, like they say.

D

They stay green, so I don't know if it's you know it's, maybe some groundwater influence or maybe.

D

That surface water into it, we haven't done that evaluation. Yet yeah could it could it be that it's.

E

In bedrock that's emerging there, that was one of the things we discussed in the technical session.

E

uh I mean that's possible, but uh the data that we've seen so far. Isn't it's not.

E

Making that likely.

E

That data includes all this.

E

Water samples from wells that we can't discuss here.

E

Currently, I mean some of it's from residential. Well, some of it's from the monitoring world.

E

Bedrock wells uh that uh are on private property um right, that's right! I mean that only every year.

B

Is private property exactly so, uh but uh so so this is the conundrum we have. Okay, I just.

E

Want you to understand now I I I understand your frustration right well, but it's it's trying to.

E

Help you rule out an area where otherwise there you can be public concern, legitimate of a concern.

E

Same thing, amy back, you know where we're going here back to the uh situation.

E

You got it with you, got it with chickens, you say: okay, we all there's only two areas.

E

That have chickens well, I'm sure there's not only two areas in new england, where people.

E

Have chickens- and I realized that you tied all this to they- have to have contact with these wells.

E

From that water, it has to be water. That you already know is by some results.

E

Is polluted, this is this is at the early stage. This is when we should be trying to find out.

E

The broadest way to say all these areas are really clean and we can say it.

E

Because we've done this this and this and it's the same thing with the gardens, this is the.

E

Question that I asked you at the last session that we never got. You know there wasn't enough.

E

Time to answer it- and I certainly understand that- uh and we never got together afterwards.

E

But with the gardens, if you put them, you put up your slide you're going to show that you excluded.

E

The whole almost the whole west side of the upper newington peninsula areas, where you know.

E

That water in those areas is almost sheet flowing on the ground.

E

Those are areas that are very much like your description, hank that you that you gave us where.

E

There is so much marine clay that the water just never gets down into the groundwater.

E

And I I just think you've got to be more open to looking at this or you you've got to give us.

E

Find some way to give us that well, information without property lines or something.

E

That people can unders people can totally accept this. Thank you. Thank you.

E

One more thing: turkeys: if you got this problem with chickens.

E

You have a massive problem in new england with turkeys. There are an enormous number of turkeys.

E

All over new england thanksgiving day on my front lawn, 38., okay, they were messing up.

E

You describe how how chickens eat from my casual observation, turkey seed in a very similar way only.

E

They eat more and they are all over the place in all of these areas and you've got to test them.

A

So well, thank you mike um also for the laugh. um Let's go to public comment and.

A

Fold that in and then we'll um move toward giving all the rab members a moment to share.

A

Final thoughts, thank you to all the rab members for your questions and comments and.

A

Work trying to communicate what's really important to the residents and to the community to the air.

A

Force as they do this work, and we have two people who have expressed interest in sharing.

A

Public comments or questions a reminder to the rab members: there's not an expectation that you.

A

Respond to or answer these um necessarily and we're you're going to have some time after they.

A

Share so people are welcome too, so, let's go to arnie and ernie will give you the ability to talk.

A

And you can unmute yourself yep now go ahead. You have up to three minutes. uh Thank you very.

B

Much my name is anila rich and I'm from new hampshire, but I live in australia, michigan.

B

After retiring 10 years ago, and the air force base here has a similar contamination issue.

B

My question is regard regards the uh presentation given by amy of wood. The box plots.

B

Of using the rsls uh and the fish samples specifically- and um she mentioned the.

B

There was an earlier set of rsls and I'm pretty sure those were provided by the regional office.

B

Epa to uh the teams uh back in 2017: that's when I saw them from your minute, so the rap meeting.

B

And then she mentioned that there's upcoming, atsdr or and more restrictive. So my question.

B

First part of my question is: where can we get the references to those new slightly more restrictive.

B

Criteria and when did the your team start using them in your investigation.

B

And I'll leave it at that, sir, um so current dod policy is not to adopt them yet.

D

I provided that, but it wasn't in the slides. I just provided it because um those values are coming.

D

The reason I say that they're coming is because um dod defaults to u.s epa right.

D

This this process is working under circla, so it's epa uh driven and epa policy driven.

D

And the regional office provided those 2017 values based on the toxicity uh values that were in.

D

The lifetime health advisory, so they're they're, inherently tied to the lifetime health advisory.

D

Assessment, those tax values were incorporated into what we call the regional screening level.

D

Calculator so we talked about those regional screening level, values, there's an online tool.

D

On the available on the epa website for anyone to use called the rsl calculator, and so that.

D

Calculator is what was used by region 1 to create those 2017 values. It had those tax values from.

D

The lifetime health devices populated in there, because that was what epa chose to use epa, said.

D

These are the best values available for people to keep pola. This is what we're going to use. So when.

D

Region, one calculated the point: seven values, those talk, values already populated in there and they.

D

Already have uh basically all the other defaults, they just selected an appropriate ingestion rate.

D

For shellfish and fish, so um currently why I say these new values are coming out is because.

D

The rsl calculator has been updated, so epa is in the process of every six months. They update.

D

Their their generic tables, so they produce a set of tables on the rsls and every six months they.

D

Do an update and they do that update they take any new, better final toxicity values that they.

D

Have selected as following a certain hierarchy, the best values out there according to eba and.

D

They populate those into that rsl calculator. So if you were to go into the rxl calculator right now,.

D

And put in the fish or shellfish consumption rates that were used in those 2017 values and just run.

D

The calculator for people as an ebola, you would get the new screen models and they're in order of.

D

Magnitude and lower than the current screening values. Thank you. We're not going to keep going.

A

Back and forth, but thank you yeah. I just want to add real quick. If I can honor that everything.

B

um Amy said is, is spot on and yeah, and so yes, there's there's information or there's.

B

New talks data within that, but there's going to be some forthcoming sort of, I think, follow on to that.

B

Sort of those updates to the rsl calculator, so I can. I can tell you that I'm pretty sure that so.

B

Not yet, but I think something's coming so it'll provide some more context uh as it relates to.

B

Those updates- and uh perhaps there's always, I think, some uh general questions or things that.

B

Are sort of considered or how you know how they should be considered? I guess so. uh You know to.

B

To to to be coming soon and then you know, there's other ish other ongoing efforts by the agency to.

B

uh Also, look at um you know more recent talks, information and you know uh again, there's plans to.

B

Re reevaluate or their plans on the way they are reevaluating. The current health advisories for.

B

Fifo and pfas, uh so that's coming down the road, so there's a lot of activity in and again this is.

B

What makes the job really hard is we try to make some decisions with these data that we have and.

B

And with best science- and you know the toxicity information that the best toxicity data that we.

B

Have to make these sort of decisions, so it it it's unusually difficult and I've never sort of.

B

Experienced this in my in my career is, you know, basically trying to collect data, and then uh you.

B

Know six months or a year later, we're having to re reconsider all of those decision points.

B

So it's that frustrating is that sort of complex and fluid. So I just want to point that out we're.

B

Trying our best we're trying to stay ahead of you know where the science is taking us so, but it does.

B

Pose a unique and really challenging problem. You know for this kind of study and it's a this- is a.

B

Huge study, as you see so um lots lots of things to consider. Thank you mike. um Thank you arnie. We.

A

Are going to then go to nate gifford and allow you to make your comment um if you would like to sure.

B

Awesome. Thank you very much. uh So my name is nate gifford, I'm a lab technician at.

B

Dartmouth college and I work in a marine biology lab where we study pfas and so.

B

My question is for the wood team sort of about your methodology.

B

And I'm wondering uh what time of year were the fish and shellfish samples collected.

B

And would you expect that these concentrations would change depending on the season.

D

Answer the first part and then pass it to amy. So the samples this year and during the.

D

um Yes, this year, we're from november and bsi were august or november.

D

But the rpri were collected in november this year. Yeah. We didn't worry about esi once because.

D

We did it twice, and one of them was that they started in 2017. They were collected in november.

D

And then collected them again, can you repeat the answer? We didn't hear that online.

D

So the data that were presented were from from the esi we're from august of 2018. right. So we.

D

Now have around from august and november so kind of bookending the year a little bit.

D

So we've um we'll be evaluating whether or not there's any potential for fluctuation.

D

uh Seasonal variability: it's not something that, at this point, I think um is, would be likely to change.

D

The overall picture, um if you see what I mean essentially everything that we've found so far is.

D

Is relatively low concentrations it's not showing that there's a lot of uptake in the shellfish, but.

D

That is definitely, you know a point that we're going to be considering our data gaps, analysis.

D

And look into it a little bit more see. Basically, we have to see if there's other sampling rounds.

D

In other, you know other bases or other similar. um You know research that we can rely on to see if.

D

Such trends have been seen by all scalps anywhere else. Great. Thank you. Thank you um all right. We are.

A

Gonna move into our wrap up now, um thanks to everyone for that back and forth, and all those.

A

Questions and responses, that's so helpful. I think we wanna just a few next steps like we'll review.

A

A few next steps and then we're going to give rab members a chance to share kind of final thoughts.

A

um Before we adjourn and really I think most of the next steps are fairly.

A

Basic we'll get the meeting summary from the previous meeting posted online, we'll draft the.

A

Summary from this meeting and post the recording um we will, uh it sounds like the air force.

A

Or wood team are gonna, be able to share the data or when they can, with the wrap members.

A

That today's presentation was based on, they will do that and I think those then there are a few.

A

Kind of other small pieces to follow up on, but I think those are most of it. I think we would.

A

Love anybody who's on this. If you want to send any comments to maybe cameron, can you put your.

A

Email in the chat for people virtually and then um we can send that a follow-up to the full web.

A

If you have feedback on how this meeting worked or suggestions for what would make it work better.

A

We're kind of trying to keep evolving our model here, we'd love your feedback.

A

Any uh chris or would any other next steps before I give everybody a chance to share final thoughts.

C

I really like this. uh I like this venue in this approach. I think you said you're worried about.

C

Glitches but I kind of thought that went off without a hitch. But um I'd like to see more.

C

People in the room, but the yeah that went pretty well. Thank you. Well, maybe I'll have, let's, let's.

A

Actually, I'm going to call on all the rab members who are present and just give you a chance to.

A

Say any final thoughts um and let's go let's start with andrea, go and then it'll be samuel.

A

uh Sure um I guess my final thoughts are: I'm I'm glad that we're finally able to meet in person.

D

um And I also agree the hybrid meeting worked well, you know, given all the technology and.

D

Everything so thank you to everyone that was able to make that happen and coordinate that.

D

For us, um I look for, I think we have better synergy when we meet in person and we can discuss.

D

Issues more so thank you for that. um I appreciate the information that was able to be shared tonight.

D

I still think it was lacking in the detail that I was hoping to get. um You know. I think that there's.

D

A lot of focus on just a few pfas compounds, and one thing I've asked repeatedly at meetings, was to.

D

Share the data on all pfas, you know I'm really curious to know if there were other.

D

Pfas detected that you didn't report on your your maps and things like that, um because that's still.

D

A significant concern to the community is all the ppas data that you collect, but overall I am.

D

Appreciative of the meeting I wish that there was more detail. I hope that we can have resolution to.

D

The ndaa interpretation and that we can continue to have productive meetings moving forward.

D

And I just want to thank everyone who was here tonight and thank the consultants for.

D

The information that they were able to share with us thank you, andrea and for all your hard work.

A

Between meetings to get us here as well, um sam and then mike donahue, hey thanks um yeah, I thought it.

B

Was a good meeting and I would have liked to have been there in person. But we do have covet in the.

B

House so I thought it would be better or not, um but I appreciate all the technology set up and.

B

I am also, I understand the rationale for focusing on sampling that you know directly.

B

Impacts, uh you know things that human consumption, um but I'm also interested in long-term.

B

If there's going to be a program or if there's a phase- and maybe this shows my ignorance of the.

B

Process and how it's laid out, but if there's a phase where this these compounds are monitored,.

B

As they move through wildlife in the food web in general and then maybe back into something.

B

Humans can consume since it's not you know one sample type of thing, since they move so much.

B

And then yeah I'm curious and I hope I would hope the um issues with the ndia interpretation etc can.

B

Just be resolved by getting permission from the affected property owners, but I'm curious.

B

How likely that is, but I guess we will soon, but that's it. Thank you mike donahue and then joan.

E

I'm just gonna pass. I have plenty of time to talk here. I'm just gonna pass on some thoughts from.

E

Peggy lampson, who is a long time member of the rap from new england, was unable to be here tonight.

E

Because she had another governmental meeting, um she she suggested and I think it does fill.

E

Actually, well with this problem, we have, regardless of how it plays out with the you know,.

E

The recent act of having permission to disclose information she her suggestion is that we have.

E

uh Some sort of meeting in new england in particular concepts. We have this private issue.

E

With all of the people, and with some sort of directed focused discussion about where you're.

E

With where you're at, but what else you need to do and how it would help to be able to disclose this.

E

And um see what what resulted from that, but you've got to start reaching out to those people.

E

And doing that anyway, and I know you've tried to survey things, but everything in I haven't lived.

E

There all my life, but everything that happens in new orleans sort of happens because you know.

E

The 800 people that are there, a good portion of them, turn out for a meeting and learn, learn things.

E

So yeah- and I I mean it's incumbent upon the leadership in knowing to be helpful, to doing it.

E

This is going to be successful if it's just thrown on you.

E

But it's a suggestion from her she's been here a long time, she's a leader.

A

I think we should look into it. Please thank peggy for her suggestion. I appreciate that.

A

um Joan and then dennis, thank you ona and thank you, everybody and thank you for letting me attend.

B

Remotely we do need to work on the sound system uh for the remote viewers, um I'm just getting.

B

Oh, I just got over covered myself, so I'm hoping to attend in person some few times in the future.

E

Thank you. Thank you um dennis and then mark thanks. uh Disclosure is the uh issue here. I think, and.

A

Thank you um mark and then um russell yeah. Thank you um again. I'd like to echo.

B

uh Andrea's sentiments and some of the others that the devil's in the details.

B

And I'm also um very interested in what darth dartmouth college is doing here.

B

In the bay with regard to pfasset pifo and wondering if we could have a presentation.

B

To the rab, if it's at a point where it's presentable at one of the future meetings.

A

Thank you for that suggestion, um russell and then mike daly.

A

Like this is my second grad meeting, so it was very enlightening and wonderful to be.

E

Everybody in person um I think, from what I was hearing tonight, I I would like to kind.

E

Of look at more of an expansion just on the sampling of the shellfish in the fox point area.

E

Where the commercial fishing is going on, just you know double check. It's one area that I didn't talk.

B

About before, which was the stream that comes off the captain's landing and I'm not sure if that's.

B

That goes all the way out to the bay, and I know that that dries in the summertime.

B

But there are a lot of people that take soft shell clam there all the time, and so I just you.

A

Know I think, that's something that's interesting and something that impacts the public health.

A

Thank you, um let's go to mike daly and then maria.

B

um I I just wanted to actually compliment the team. uh You know I was I'm really impressed with the.

B

Technology- and um I know it was, the audio was a little bit maybe challenging, and it was at times.

B

But I would, I would say it was pretty pretty much flawless so uh kudos to everybody that made it.

B

Happen so um I I um I don't everything else really say. I thought it was a good uh good exchange of.

B

Dialogue and thoughts and concerns- and um you know I I just repeating what I had said just.

B

A little short time ago that you know again, as I think, the challenge for the team and not just.

B

This team- but you know all across the country as we consider to try to you, know, collect more data.

B

As we get more information, more more toxicity information for more pfas again, the the the.

B

Decisions we make today may we may have to revisit or reconsider um and it all sort of.

B

Ties back to again having enough data to sort of go through the process of evaluating risk to.

B

Human, healthy environments, so you know that's been the challenge. It continues to be the challenge.

B

um You know kudos to the wood team kudos to the air force. um As far as you know again, trying to.

B

Use best science um and understanding that some of these other complications with regard to the sort.

B

Of the privacy- and you know, privacy, act related issues and and that's in that and in the in the in.

B

The you know the statute, uh the current statute, as a as it relates to uh data. So I I know it's.

B

Frustrating- um and uh I can certainly appreciate uh you- know people in the community certainly.

B

Des so I can appreciate the frustration and you know uh it doesn't make things easier. That's for.

B

Sure, but um with that said, I think we're making still we're making some good progress. I think.

B

We're making forward progress, I don't think we're going backwards, at least in regards of uh having a.

B

Lot of sort of curveballs thrown at us as we you know, as we collect the data, we seem to sort of.

B

Proving out some of the thoughts we had initially after as part of the esi, so that's a good thing.

B

So, as I see it, so you know again continue to move forward. Thank you, mike um maria and then peter.

A

uh Yeah, I just I guess, echo uh some of what mike said. Thank you for the presentation, a.

B

Lot of work, it's a huge study. I do appreciate being able to participate virtually. I thought.

A

The hybrid week meeting worked fine. um I I liked getting the slides ahead of time and.

A

Then kind of put the meat on them at the meeting that worked well for me and then just to mention.

B

Another thing that you you talked about, chris, um I'm interested in hearing your plans about.

B

Demoing, dismantling those those mothballed systems and look forward to working with you more on that.

A

And that's it. Thank you, I'm peter and then matt yeah. It's a shame that that we were.

B

Kind of pushed sideways by the data sharing problems, because there's so.

B

Much really good work, that's been done and it takes away from the accomplishment.

B

To today- and I wish we could have talked about it in more detail and I look forward to.

B

To resolving that um the flip side of that coin is I really appreciate the voices of the public.

B

uh And also in the the work that's being done at the congressional level, because that's where this.

B

Problem is going to get solved and you know kudos kudos to you. um So, let's, uh let's hope.

E

It's quick and- and the next meeting is a little more in detail thanks peter matt and then brian.

B

Yeah hi, I don't have much to add, except I think you know everyone did a great job presenting and.

B

One recommendation, I think I would have is to just include, like a general schedule of.

B

The ri field work and maybe reporting um as to when the draft might be out and how long this.

C

Is going to go on for just in general might be a good idea moving forward so.

C

Thank you thank you, um brian and then chris, oh no, I I don't have.

B

The ability to see who the attendees are, but is dr tarman, the attendee by chance.

B

Well there he is good, so I I I know dr tarmet just has a couple weeks prior to.

B

His retirement, I want to send best wishes to him, he's the first person with the air force. I.

B

Had contact with eight years ago and he's been a very good partner in this whole process,.

B

I want to wish him a well-deserved and earned retirement and best of luck.

A

Thank you, nice um and then I'm gonna interject before you go chris and say.

A

For those who are following in the q and a that, there is a presentation at 1 pm on june 14th.

A

By the the team at dartmouth who are presenting their preliminary findings.

A

2021 and 2022. so again that is june 14th at 1pm.

A

I think in the ds office and we think it's open to the public um and then we were laughing at you.

B

Owner they, you froze for a second, so we were all they were left like a monster. They were being mean.

A

And then, let's go to chris find out where it's chris and we will adjourn.

C

As I just want to say, I really do appreciate the community um coming to these events. Today was a.

C

Very productive discussion and I think it could have gone off the rails and didn't um so. I really.

C

Appreciate everybody kind of sticking to their guns and letting us know what we needed to hear.

C

But you know keeping it keeping them on track and that's thank you especially to miss mckenna.

C

Senator shaking's office for coming out and sharing her opinion on us. I think that was very.

C

Helpful for the group, um we know that there are people all around working on the main issues, we're.

C

Seeing or discuss here today- and I guess over the next month or so will be contacting andrea and.

C

The rest of the community members to figure out what I think we should cover in the next round.

C

Because right now, there's a lot of unknowns that may impact what the subject matters are, but.

C

There are a lot of things to talk about, so we can figure it out sorry to interrupt chris.

A

Steve termath wants to um say something so I'm gonna allow him to speak. One sec jump in dr terma.

A

I think you raised your hand, and I think you can speak now.

A

Steve terma, you want to speak now's your chance.

A

No, can you hear me, we can oh okay. uh I had to click two times. One microphone another place.

B

But I just want to thank brian for his kind comments and uh pease was obviously the the.

B

First, for a lot of us and the first uh major thing that had anything to do with drinking water and so.

B

A lot's been learned from our work at pease and I certainly have enjoyed all my interactions with.

B

Everybody up there and want to give great kudus to all of you for.

B

The time and effort that you're you're spending and participating with this rab and the.

B

Community for its participation but blessings to all of you, uh I will miss miss all of this.

B

But uh it is time to retire, so I thank you all very much. Thank you. Best wishes.

A

Thank you. Everyone we will be in touch, be well have a beautiful summer, bye, y'all.